1 2013-04-13 00:00:21 Sealy has joined
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   7 2013-04-13 00:02:12 <diki> alright
   8 2013-04-13 00:02:16 <diki> bitcoind is compiling so far
   9 2013-04-13 00:02:20 <diki> will test -qt later
  10 2013-04-13 00:02:23 <sipa> diki: nice!
  11 2013-04-13 00:02:50 <Diapolo> diki: very good, it's always nice to have another Windows user who can compile via MinGW :)
  12 2013-04-13 00:03:24 <diki> I should attempt to do this in mingw-w64
  13 2013-04-13 00:03:26 Free-Way has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  14 2013-04-13 00:03:30 <diki> usually it provides better performance
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  16 2013-04-13 00:03:42 <sipa> diki: it almost certainly will
  17 2013-04-13 00:03:49 <sipa> if you actually compile it for 64-bit
  18 2013-04-13 00:03:51 grau has joined
  19 2013-04-13 00:04:10 <sipa> as ECDSA verification in OpenSSL is about 2x faster on 64-bit platforms
  20 2013-04-13 00:04:12 <diki> well..it will likely require re-compilation of qt for x64
  21 2013-04-13 00:04:15 GStone has joined
  22 2013-04-13 00:04:17 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  23 2013-04-13 00:04:25 <sipa> of course
  24 2013-04-13 00:04:39 Muis_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  25 2013-04-13 00:04:40 <sipa> all libraries you link against must use the same machine code
  26 2013-04-13 00:04:41 vigilyn2 has joined
  27 2013-04-13 00:04:45 <Diapolo> I never played with x64 and MinGW
  28 2013-04-13 00:04:50 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  29 2013-04-13 00:04:55 <diki> Btw, I noticed something very strange with 0.8.0-beta and that is that bitcoin-qt uses over 700mb of ram
  30 2013-04-13 00:04:56 coiner_ has joined
  31 2013-04-13 00:04:57 <diki> memory leak?
  32 2013-04-13 00:05:06 <diki> this with official binaries
  33 2013-04-13 00:05:08 <sipa> no
  34 2013-04-13 00:05:17 <sipa> not a memory leak, but bad use of memory
  35 2013-04-13 00:05:22 <sipa> it'll be fixed in 0.8.2
  36 2013-04-13 00:05:29 <sipa> (it's already fixed in head)
  37 2013-04-13 00:06:28 lupine has joined
  38 2013-04-13 00:06:47 <Diapolo> my testnet node is using 60MB and mainnet node 200MB of RAM synced currently and having incoming connections enabled
  39 2013-04-13 00:07:11 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  40 2013-04-13 00:08:02 <Diapolo> sipa: which commit was THE fix for that behaviour?
  41 2013-04-13 00:08:04 Lophie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  42 2013-04-13 00:08:52 <sipa> Diapolo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c7f039b674b43b741f20bf7521eb8a68426f4275
  43 2013-04-13 00:08:59 zodiac1233_ has joined
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  45 2013-04-13 00:10:07 <Diapolo> sipa: thanks yeah I read that but never thought that was THE memory-usage-reducer
  46 2013-04-13 00:10:29 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: you're welcome for creating that bug in the first place
  47 2013-04-13 00:11:16 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: I'm not sure if I understood, sorry?
  48 2013-04-13 00:11:30 * BlueMatt created the bug that that commit fixed
  49 2013-04-13 00:11:33 <BlueMatt> like a year ago
  50 2013-04-13 00:11:44 <wumpus> hehe
  51 2013-04-13 00:11:55 <sipa> well, nobody noticed!
  52 2013-04-13 00:12:22 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  53 2013-04-13 00:12:24 <Diapolo> ^^ at least it was not causing serious issues
  54 2013-04-13 00:12:47 <shesek> can I get the balance in some address using bitcoind's API?
  55 2013-04-13 00:13:07 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  56 2013-04-13 00:13:09 <sipa> shesek: addresses do not have a balance, in the abstraction provided by the client
  57 2013-04-13 00:13:14 Muis has joined
  58 2013-04-13 00:13:15 <shesek> something like getaddressbalance that getreceivedbyaddress isn't?
  59 2013-04-13 00:13:16 <sipa> shesek: the wallet as a whole has
  60 2013-04-13 00:13:31 BlackPrapor has joined
  61 2013-04-13 00:13:38 <Diapolo> sipa: is the description for -maxsendbuffer and -maxreceivebuffer still correct? AFAIR you changed from per connection to something different?
  62 2013-04-13 00:13:43 X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  63 2013-04-13 00:13:54 <sipa> Diapolo: the intended meaning didn't change :)
  64 2013-04-13 00:14:02 <shesek> sipa, well, can I see how much money was sent to an address, minus how much was spent from that address?
  65 2013-04-13 00:14:14 <sipa> shesek: but you don't spend from an address
  66 2013-04-13 00:14:16 <Diapolo> just asking :)
  67 2013-04-13 00:14:18 <sipa> shesek: you spend a coin
  68 2013-04-13 00:14:43 <sipa> shesek: coins are sent to addresses, and yes you can count that as subtracting the balance from the address the coin was sent to
  69 2013-04-13 00:14:55 <shesek> sipa, perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions. lets say I generate a unique address for a transaction, expecting someone to send money there
  70 2013-04-13 00:14:57 <sipa> shesek: but that means you're looking at the system in a different way
  71 2013-04-13 00:15:09 <shesek> what would be the correct way to check if he sent anything?
  72 2013-04-13 00:15:17 savantguy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  73 2013-04-13 00:15:19 <sipa> shesek: getreceivedbyaddress
  74 2013-04-13 00:15:32 <diki> hmm...
  75 2013-04-13 00:15:39 <diki> it compiled fine, but the objects cannot be linked.
  76 2013-04-13 00:15:48 <diki> something about undefined reference to something in the boost libs
  77 2013-04-13 00:16:03 <Diapolo> don't use -O3
  78 2013-04-13 00:16:12 <shesek> sipa, and if that address isn't in my wallet?
  79 2013-04-13 00:16:18 <Diapolo> And which Boost version are you using diki?
  80 2013-04-13 00:16:23 <diki> using 1.50.0
  81 2013-04-13 00:16:27 xenesis_ has joined
  82 2013-04-13 00:16:36 <shesek> ("Works only for addresses in the local wallet, external addresses will always show 0")
  83 2013-04-13 00:16:40 <sipa> shesek: then you can't receive anything to it
  84 2013-04-13 00:16:46 <Diapolo> Can you post the error?
  85 2013-04-13 00:16:59 scribble has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  86 2013-04-13 00:17:02 <diki> with this command line http://pastebin.com/TiE3pbx0
  87 2013-04-13 00:17:03 <sipa> shesek: and for now, there is no watch-only wallet support (though that will likely come in 0.9)
  88 2013-04-13 00:17:14 <shesek> sipa, I can generate the public/private (and the derived address) key independently of bitcoind
  89 2013-04-13 00:17:25 <sipa> shesek: sure
  90 2013-04-13 00:17:33 <sipa> shesek: you can import it into bitcoind to
  91 2013-04-13 00:17:58 <Diapolo> diki: I'm using b2 --toolset=gcc --build-dir=D:\boost_1_53_0\build --build-type=minimal stage link=static runtime-link=static threading=multi variant=release -a -j 4 --with-filesystem --with-program_options --with-system --with-thread
  92 2013-04-13 00:18:10 <shesek> so unless I import it into a wallet, bitcoind won't let me check the balances/received coins of addresses?
  93 2013-04-13 00:18:21 <diki> will try a recompilation with yours
  94 2013-04-13 00:18:26 <shesek> sipa, the thing is, I don't want the private keys stored where bitcoind is running
  95 2013-04-13 00:18:38 <sipa> shesek: no, it doesn't have (or need) any index to do such a lookup
  96 2013-04-13 00:18:41 lupine has joined
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  98 2013-04-13 00:19:08 <Diapolo> diki: What was the acutal compiler / linker error you got?
  99 2013-04-13 00:19:17 <sipa> shesek: what you can do, is import the key in a wallet on another (trusted, offline) machine, encrypt the wallet with a random password, en then move it to the actual system
 100 2013-04-13 00:19:18 <shesek> sipa, do you know of anything else that does index / allow to query in realtime such data?
 101 2013-04-13 00:19:23 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 102 2013-04-13 00:19:23 xenesis_ is now known as xenesis
 103 2013-04-13 00:19:39 <sipa> shesek: though i admit that's a gross hack, and the correct solution is watch-only wallets where you can just import an address without key
 104 2013-04-13 00:19:41 MobPhone has joined
 105 2013-04-13 00:19:42 <shesek> sipa, if you're generating those addresses on regular basis, its going to be quite a bit of an hassle
 106 2013-04-13 00:19:48 <sipa> shesek: agree
 107 2013-04-13 00:19:59 <shesek> what does sites like blockchain.info does?
 108 2013-04-13 00:19:59 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
 109 2013-04-13 00:20:06 <sipa> maintain a huge database
 110 2013-04-13 00:20:08 <shesek> custom software?
 111 2013-04-13 00:20:10 <sipa> yes
 112 2013-04-13 00:20:24 <gmaxwell> 16:57 < shesek> sipa, if you're generating those addresses on regular basis, its going to be quite a bit of an hassle
 113 2013-04-13 00:20:35 <gmaxwell> ^ well what I do in that case is set the key pool to a large value...
 114 2013-04-13 00:20:40 <gmaxwell> That removes the regular basis part.
 115 2013-04-13 00:20:55 duckybsd has joined
 116 2013-04-13 00:21:20 <shesek> yeah, I guess I could send a few thousands at a time
 117 2013-04-13 00:21:33 <sipa> 10-100 thousand should be doable even
 118 2013-04-13 00:21:34 <shesek> tho I probably won't need that much for now, not expecting such large volumes any time soon
 119 2013-04-13 00:21:36 <diki> cool
 120 2013-04-13 00:21:45 <diki> bitcoind compiled thanks to your command line diapolo
 121 2013-04-13 00:22:03 <Diapolo> diki: you're welcome
 122 2013-04-13 00:22:23 <diki> will your command line work on other PCs? Someone here said it only works on your PC.
 123 2013-04-13 00:22:31 <diki> i.e the binary produced
 124 2013-04-13 00:22:37 <Diapolo> it should create a static library
 125 2013-04-13 00:22:59 <Diapolo> but the resulting binary is NOT portable
 126 2013-04-13 00:23:15 <Diapolo> diki: because of Qt, which I never got to compile as a static version
 127 2013-04-13 00:23:20 <sipa>         string msg = strprintf(_("Error initializing database environment %s!"
 128 2013-04-13 00:23:20 <shesek> sipa, okay, lets assume I do add them to my wallet. if I generate a unique per-user address for his transactions, and let him keep a balance for spending it on multiple transactions on my website
 129 2013-04-13 00:23:23 <sipa>                                  " To recover, BACKUP THAT DIRECTORY, then remove"
 130 2013-04-13 00:23:26 <sipa>                                  " everything from it except for wallet.dat."), strDataDir.c_str());
 131 2013-04-13 00:23:46 <Diapolo> sipa: looks well known to me ^^
 132 2013-04-13 00:23:50 <shesek> what would be a better approach for keeping track of the user's balance? transfer money from his unique address to some other address, and just keep track of the coins in that address
 133 2013-04-13 00:24:05 <sipa> shesek: stop thinking that addresses have a balance
 134 2013-04-13 00:24:13 <shesek> or I'd be better off tracking that independently of bitcoin's data?
 135 2013-04-13 00:24:21 <Diapolo> diki: but bitcoind could work, as it's not using Qt ^^
 136 2013-04-13 00:24:30 <sipa> shesek: it's a possible way, but not what is implemented, and likely not necessary
 137 2013-04-13 00:24:41 creftos has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 138 2013-04-13 00:24:42 <sipa> shesek: you can use the accounts system, but i advise against it
 139 2013-04-13 00:24:52 <sipa> shesek: indeed, keep track of a user's balance independently
 140 2013-04-13 00:24:58 <shesek> sipa, okay, so just ignore everything I say as for the "how" part
 141 2013-04-13 00:25:13 Herodes has joined
 142 2013-04-13 00:25:13 <sipa> Diapolo: yes, but it's wrong!
 143 2013-04-13 00:25:53 <sipa> Diapolo: i'm wondering how to correctly formulate it
 144 2013-04-13 00:26:15 <sipa> Diapolo: they don't need to touch any blockchain-related stuff
 145 2013-04-13 00:26:20 <Diapolo> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2488
 146 2013-04-13 00:26:34 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 147 2013-04-13 00:26:40 <sipa> Diapolo: i know
 148 2013-04-13 00:26:40 <shesek> so the correct way to go about it is a unique per-transaction (and not per-user) address, and just keep track of user's balance using an external database, regardless of the data from bitcoin network?
 149 2013-04-13 00:26:54 <sipa> shesek: that's the right way, imho
 150 2013-04-13 00:27:07 sgstair has joined
 151 2013-04-13 00:27:19 <sipa> shesek: note that bitcoin can in fact also maintain such a database for you
 152 2013-04-13 00:27:25 <Diapolo> sipa: and the message in step 5 is just "Error initializing wallet database environment %s!"
 153 2013-04-13 00:27:34 <shesek> sipa, using the "accounts" feature?
 154 2013-04-13 00:27:40 <Diapolo> which was changed by gmaxwell as far as I remember
 155 2013-04-13 00:27:41 <sipa> shesek: but it has some weird (and sometimes unexpected) behaviour
 156 2013-04-13 00:27:51 <diki> Diapolo:Do I absolutely need qt creator?
 157 2013-04-13 00:27:54 <diki> cant happen with qmake?
 158 2013-04-13 00:27:56 <shesek> I'm not sure how capable it is of handling large volumes, while avoiding race conditions and such
 159 2013-04-13 00:28:00 <sipa> shesek: if you know how it works, it could be what you want, but people often assume it works differently
 160 2013-04-13 00:28:08 <Diapolo> diki: can you rephrase that question?
 161 2013-04-13 00:28:16 <sipa> high volumes... depends, if wallets grow large, they become slow
 162 2013-04-13 00:28:26 <diki> Do I need Qt Creator to try and compile bitcoin-qt, or will command line qmake work?
 163 2013-04-13 00:28:28 <sipa> race conditions... they should deal with that perfectly
 164 2013-04-13 00:28:36 <shesek> no, I mean, large volumes of accounts, with large volumes of transactions
 165 2013-04-13 00:28:50 Darin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 166 2013-04-13 00:28:56 <Diapolo> diki: dunno, I never just used qmake and always build via Qt Creator
 167 2013-04-13 00:29:05 <shesek> I assume it was built assuming to be used by a single user, and not by a website that uses it as a backend storage engine... am I wrong?
 168 2013-04-13 00:29:06 <sipa> shesek: the size of a wallet is proportional to the number of keys and transactions in it
 169 2013-04-13 00:29:11 <Diapolo> diki: what will be the benefit if you leave out the IDE for you?
 170 2013-04-13 00:29:20 <sipa> shesek: instawallet uses (used?) it
 171 2013-04-13 00:29:28 <sipa> shesek: but they had serious problems with scalability
 172 2013-04-13 00:30:09 <sipa> shesek: ~ 100000 keys is where it breaks
 173 2013-04-13 00:30:59 <sipa> Diapolo: i'm just wondering about to correctly formulate it
 174 2013-04-13 00:31:09 <shesek> I see. than I might use it for a shorterm POC/MVP, than switch later on
 175 2013-04-13 00:32:00 <shesek> is it really such a bad idea to identify each user with an address and use that to track his balance? can you expand some more on why that is? (or just link me to some relevant information?)
 176 2013-04-13 00:32:17 <sipa> shesek: privacy, basically
 177 2013-04-13 00:32:37 <sipa> shesek: it automatically links all incoming funds from that user to eachother
 178 2013-04-13 00:32:41 taha has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 179 2013-04-13 00:32:52 <sipa> and for tracking the balance of an address: there's simply no need
 180 2013-04-13 00:33:05 lupine has joined
 181 2013-04-13 00:33:16 zrad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 182 2013-04-13 00:33:20 <sipa> you control all the keys, there is no reason why you couldn't use all coins available for everyone, for any payment any user wants to do
 183 2013-04-13 00:33:23 <shesek> what about that whole "address doesn't have a balance" thing? I think I'm understand something quite wrong
 184 2013-04-13 00:33:34 <sipa> it's just a way of looking at it
 185 2013-04-13 00:33:39 <sipa> it's not "wrong"
 186 2013-04-13 00:33:42 <sipa> just different
 187 2013-04-13 00:33:49 <shesek> s/understand/understanding
 188 2013-04-13 00:33:54 <sipa> a wallet is a collection of keys, and coins that can be spent by those keys
 189 2013-04-13 00:33:55 <Diapolo> sipa: Well if you have a new phrase you should change both occurances or at least check if we need step 7, as Gavin didn't want to look ^^.
 190 2013-04-13 00:34:10 <sipa> you could group those coins per key, but there's no need
 191 2013-04-13 00:34:19 <shesek> by keys you're referring to the addresses private keys, right?
 192 2013-04-13 00:34:22 <sipa> indeed
 193 2013-04-13 00:35:02 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
 194 2013-04-13 00:35:15 <Diapolo> diki: the Gitian build process is just using qmake I guess, take a look at how we invode qmake or make there.
 195 2013-04-13 00:35:37 <shesek> I dunno. using a per-user address seems like a cool idea. if my database crashes, I could still keep track of user's balances, because it'll get stored on the p2p network
 196 2013-04-13 00:35:53 <sipa> the "balance of an address" idea just fosters misunderstanding about how bitcoin works internally (it does not track any balance at all, it just tracks coins that are always spent entirely), and encourages address reuse, as it makes addresses somehow "valuable" and "identities" - they're not intended to be that
 197 2013-04-13 00:36:05 <shesek> it seems like a better idea to let the p2p network and the bitcoin protocol to handle keeping that data secure and safe than rolling my own solution using a 3rd party database
 198 2013-04-13 00:36:06 zodiac1233_ has left ()
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 201 2013-04-13 00:37:00 <sipa> shesek: you won't lose coins in any case
 202 2013-04-13 00:37:24 <sipa> shesek: and for almost any other purpose, you'll want a backup of your metadata anyway (user account data, ...)
 203 2013-04-13 00:37:24 <shesek> I know that I won't. its just the geek in me thinking its a much cooler idea :)
 204 2013-04-13 00:37:49 <sipa> yes, i think that's part of the problem - it somehow makes things nice to understand, and people like that
 205 2013-04-13 00:38:23 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 206 2013-04-13 00:38:48 <shesek> oh, well. I'll go with your suggestion.
 207 2013-04-13 00:39:38 grau has joined
 208 2013-04-13 00:39:52 <shesek> another thing - is there some better way to get notified when a user sends money to the address I generated for him, other than querying using "getreceivedbyaddress" every second?
 209 2013-04-13 00:40:11 <shesek> some kind of push notification, rather than pulling on short intervals?
 210 2013-04-13 00:40:18 <jordandotdev> can anyone point me to a tutorial on linking a bitcoind server to a webserver?
 211 2013-04-13 00:40:25 <jordandotdev> *or webhosted application
 212 2013-04-13 00:40:35 <sipa> shesek: 0.8.2 will have -walletnotify
 213 2013-04-13 00:40:49 <sipa> shesek: which executes a command when a transacton in the wallet changes
 214 2013-04-13 00:41:02 <DBordello> sipa, slick, I'll use that
 215 2013-04-13 00:41:49 coiner_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 216 2013-04-13 00:42:11 sega01 has quit (Quit: leaving)
 217 2013-04-13 00:42:19 <shesek> any expected release date for 0.8.2?
 218 2013-04-13 00:42:31 Odyessus has joined
 219 2013-04-13 00:42:44 <sipa> a few weeks
 220 2013-04-13 00:43:10 <Diapolo> sipa: RC phase I guess?
 221 2013-04-13 00:43:12 <shesek> oh well. I'll just throw an abstraction layer on top of that and switch when its out
 222 2013-04-13 00:43:14 <diki> my qmake fails
 223 2013-04-13 00:43:25 <shesek> sipa, thanks for your time and help, you been really helpful :)
 224 2013-04-13 00:43:28 <sipa> shesek: yw!
 225 2013-04-13 00:43:35 <diki> has tons of errors of type Removed plural forms as the target language has less forms
 226 2013-04-13 00:43:55 <sipa> Diapolo: yes, first RCs, but I don't expect we'll need a long RC cycle
 227 2013-04-13 00:44:22 <Diapolo> sipa: just asking because of translation upates during RC
 228 2013-04-13 00:44:45 nomailin1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 229 2013-04-13 00:45:17 <Diapolo> diki: that messages can be ignored I guess
 230 2013-04-13 00:45:33 <diki> no binary is built
 231 2013-04-13 00:45:46 <Diapolo> diki: it's just telling about translations stuff, which should not prevent building
 232 2013-04-13 00:46:31 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 233 2013-04-13 00:46:34 <shesek> is there something like blockchain.info that lists addresses/transactions from the testnet?
 234 2013-04-13 00:47:22 <sipa> blockexplorer.com/testnet
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 237 2013-04-13 00:48:59 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 238 2013-04-13 00:49:04 <shesek> ah, but I can't getreceivedbyaddress for addresses I don't own :(
 239 2013-04-13 00:49:23 <shesek> I guess I'll have to wait until I find a testnet block
 240 2013-04-13 00:49:34 <gmaxwell> http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/12/security-notice-linode-manager-password-reset/ < AGAIN?!
 241 2013-04-13 00:50:03 <Diapolo> shesek: just use setgenerate true <number of CPUs you have>
 242 2013-04-13 00:50:07 <Diapolo> shouldn't take long
 243 2013-04-13 00:50:19 <shesek> yeah, I did that about an hour ago
 244 2013-04-13 00:50:24 FredEE has joined
 245 2013-04-13 00:50:28 <shesek> I still don't have any balance
 246 2013-04-13 00:50:45 jciri has quit (Client Quit)
 247 2013-04-13 00:50:49 <shesek> is there some way to see the progress or something?
 248 2013-04-13 00:50:58 <sipa> there is no progress
 249 2013-04-13 00:51:07 <sipa> it just tries hashes
 250 2013-04-13 00:51:12 <sipa> until it finds one
 251 2013-04-13 00:51:14 normanrichards has quit ()
 252 2013-04-13 00:51:26 <sipa> having searched for longer without success doesn't mean a solution is any closer
 253 2013-04-13 00:51:45 systemParanoid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 254 2013-04-13 00:51:51 <shesek> yeah, I know, but there's an average number of hashes that it should take to find a block... knowing how many has been tried until now does mean something
 255 2013-04-13 00:52:00 <MC1984> linode is shady
 256 2013-04-13 00:52:09 <sipa> shesek: not much :)
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 258 2013-04-13 00:52:24 <sipa> shesek: the only relevant number is how many hashes/s you can do
 259 2013-04-13 00:52:44 macboz has joined
 260 2013-04-13 00:52:44 <sipa> how many hashes it has done so far is completely irrelevant
 261 2013-04-13 00:53:20 <kadoban> shesek: that's actually a big gamblers fallacy "i've lost a bunch, i'm due for a win!"
 262 2013-04-13 00:53:48 <diki> Diapolo:Nothing gets built at all
 263 2013-04-13 00:53:51 franl has joined
 264 2013-04-13 00:53:56 <diki> just these warning messages and it ends
 265 2013-04-13 00:54:06 <shesek> well, if I already did 100x the average and still haven't found a block, it could mean I did something wrong
 266 2013-04-13 00:54:11 <sipa> diki: after running qmake, you still need to run make
 267 2013-04-13 00:54:18 <sipa> diki: qmake just creates the Makefile
 268 2013-04-13 00:54:26 <ubias> shesek there is a testnet faucet
 269 2013-04-13 00:54:44 <diki> facepalm
 270 2013-04-13 00:54:44 <ubias> http://tpfaucet.appspot.com/
 271 2013-04-13 00:54:48 <Diapolo> diki: I'm out for now, you are free to create an issue ticked to further draw my attention to assist you, I'm not always here
 272 2013-04-13 00:55:08 Diapolo has left ()
 273 2013-04-13 00:55:13 <shesek> ubias, oh, awesome. thanks :)
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 275 2013-04-13 00:55:15 <diki> sipa:Thanks, now it's compiling...
 276 2013-04-13 00:55:20 <shesek> that's perfect
 277 2013-04-13 00:55:29 <diki> I was expecting different output from qmake, that's all.
 278 2013-04-13 00:58:10 Darin has joined
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 280 2013-04-13 01:00:26 <MC1984> srsly ive had a node doing a getblocks loop from blk 200k to current for hours now
 281 2013-04-13 01:00:33 <MC1984> i think its keeping my ram up
 282 2013-04-13 01:00:37 <MC1984> is that normal
 283 2013-04-13 01:01:35 pizzacat has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 284 2013-04-13 01:02:07 <MC1984> i thin its the one ive fed 500mb of chain since this afternoon
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 304 2013-04-13 01:12:10 <diki> Darn
 305 2013-04-13 01:12:22 <diki> getting same error as Diapolo: Error initializing wallet database
 306 2013-04-13 01:12:44 lupine has joined
 307 2013-04-13 01:13:13 <diki> "Error initializing wallet database environment"
 308 2013-04-13 01:13:21 Haifisch has joined
 309 2013-04-13 01:13:23 <BlackPrapor> Guys, I've got a simple question, if I make 10k of new addresses on my wallet, would bitcoins received to one address and sent from another be traceable and linked to each other on blockchain?
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 313 2013-04-13 01:14:05 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
 314 2013-04-13 01:14:16 <BlackPrapor> One girl on btce chat is asking this, I just have no idea what to say
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 318 2013-04-13 01:15:38 <MC1984> not if you only use them once afaik
 319 2013-04-13 01:15:39 lupine has joined
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 321 2013-04-13 01:16:10 <diki> So if leveldb is being used, why is bdb still referenced?
 322 2013-04-13 01:16:11 <MC1984> there nothing on the chain that links addresses in the same wallet as each other except correlation via address reuse
 323 2013-04-13 01:17:55 <holorga_> BlackPrapor: you can send btc from an address only if you received btc to that address.. if this was some kind of a plan to anonimize transactions, it won't work.
 324 2013-04-13 01:18:14 <SomeoneWeird> diki, i think the wallet is still bdb
 325 2013-04-13 01:18:28 <diki> so leveldb is for blocks?
 326 2013-04-13 01:18:39 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
 327 2013-04-13 01:18:41 <SomeoneWeird> (i think)
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 345 2013-04-13 01:26:14 <shesek> running bitcoin-qt doesn't run the bitcoind server?
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 358 2013-04-13 01:38:47 <sipa> diki: the blocks themself are just raw blocks stored on disk, but leveldb is used for the block index (blocks/index/) and the utxo set (chainstate/); the wallet is indeed still BDB
 359 2013-04-13 01:38:59 <sipa> shesek: bitcoind is bitcoin-qt with the GUI removed
 360 2013-04-13 01:39:08 i2pRelay has joined
 361 2013-04-13 01:39:15 <diki> ERROR: CDB() : error DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery (-30974) opening database environment
 362 2013-04-13 01:39:16 <diki> Error: Error initializing wallet database environment C:\Users\*********\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin!
 363 2013-04-13 01:39:31 <diki> this with both bitcoind and bitcoin-qt from my compilation
 364 2013-04-13 01:39:51 <sipa> try deleting the database subdir
 365 2013-04-13 01:39:51 <diki> I used bdb-4.8.30
 366 2013-04-13 01:40:24 <diki> no dice
 367 2013-04-13 01:40:35 <diki> something must be wrong with my compilation of bdb or something
 368 2013-04-13 01:40:42 <diki> but Diapolo also said he got this error
 369 2013-04-13 01:40:46 Cache_Money has joined
 370 2013-04-13 01:40:49 <shesek> I'm running it with "bitcoin-qt -testnet -server", than trying to "bitcoind COMMAND" and "bitcoind -server localhost:18333 COMMAND", both giving me "Couldn't connect to server". what am I doing wrong?
 371 2013-04-13 01:41:01 <shesek> running the server with bitcoind worked fine
 372 2013-04-13 01:41:05 <diki> shesek:You need one instance running
 373 2013-04-13 01:41:09 <sipa> no, BDB just has the ridiculous tendency to break compatibility between minor version
 374 2013-04-13 01:41:24 <sipa> shesek: they bitcoind -testnet COMMAND
 375 2013-04-13 01:41:28 <sipa> *try
 376 2013-04-13 01:41:42 <shesek> sipa, I tried that too
 377 2013-04-13 01:41:44 <sipa> or bitcoind -rpcconnect=localhost:18333 COMMAND
 378 2013-04-13 01:41:47 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
 379 2013-04-13 01:41:51 <Retik> how far is this gonna keep sinking?
 380 2013-04-13 01:41:51 <sipa> eh, 18332
 381 2013-04-13 01:42:12 <sipa> shesek: or likely 8332
 382 2013-04-13 01:42:12 <diki> so which bdb must I compile?
 383 2013-04-13 01:42:38 <sipa> diki: try starting without a wallet?
 384 2013-04-13 01:42:43 <diki> same thing
 385 2013-04-13 01:42:44 lupine has joined
 386 2013-04-13 01:42:46 <sipa> huh
 387 2013-04-13 01:42:52 <sipa> that makes no sense
 388 2013-04-13 01:42:55 <shesek> oh, its 18332, not 18333
 389 2013-04-13 01:43:06 <diki> I have some debug info in db.log
 390 2013-04-13 01:43:13 <sipa> diki: tell me which files are in your datadir
 391 2013-04-13 01:43:18 <diki> http://pastebin.com/Rcue7wVZ
 392 2013-04-13 01:43:19 <shesek> why 8332? "Listen for JSON-RPC connections on <port> (default: 8332 or testnet: 18332)"
 393 2013-04-13 01:43:38 <diki> In my datadir I have peers.data as well as a bunch of other peer.dat files
 394 2013-04-13 01:43:40 <sipa> shesek: why what?
 395 2013-04-13 01:43:49 <shesek> with rpcconnect I'm getting "Host not found (authoritative)"
 396 2013-04-13 01:43:51 <sipa> diki: can you list all files and subdirs you have
 397 2013-04-13 01:43:54 <diki> I also have a blocks folder,database folder,chainstate,other
 398 2013-04-13 01:44:07 <shesek> sipa, why its likely 8332? doesn't it use 18332 when running on the testnet?
 399 2013-04-13 01:44:10 <diki> better yet, lets start with a new datadir in case it's something else
 400 2013-04-13 01:44:16 <sipa> shesek: yes, i just wasn't sure
 401 2013-04-13 01:44:25 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 402 2013-04-13 01:44:36 <EvilPete> LevelDB write failure: IO error: /Users/peter/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/blocks/index/003187.log: Too many open files
 403 2013-04-13 01:44:40 lupine has joined
 404 2013-04-13 01:44:52 <sipa> EvilPete: ewww
 405 2013-04-13 01:44:56 <EvilPete> (while trying to reindex)
 406 2013-04-13 01:45:05 <sipa> EvilPete: that's a problem
 407 2013-04-13 01:45:20 <diki> yeah same error in new empty datadir, it created a bunch of files .lock,db.log,debug.log peers.dat and an empty database folder
 408 2013-04-13 01:45:26 <shesek> sipa, tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:18332         0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      7381/bitcoin-qt
 409 2013-04-13 01:45:45 <shesek> it is 18332... but I'm getting "Host not found (authoritative)"
 410 2013-04-13 01:46:09 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: do you have txindex=1 ?
 411 2013-04-13 01:46:24 <shesek> with `bitcoind -rpcconnect=localhost:18333 listaccounts`
 412 2013-04-13 01:46:24 <sipa> shesek: it's very strange that bitcoind -testnet COMMAND doesn't just work
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 416 2013-04-13 01:47:14 <shesek> that, or using -server, are both giving me "error: couldn't connect to server" (a different error than using -rpcconnect, which gives "Host not found (authoritative)")
 417 2013-04-13 01:47:32 <diki> maybe my bdb is not multi-threaded or something?
 418 2013-04-13 01:47:32 <sipa> how did you start bitcoin-qt
 419 2013-04-13 01:47:45 <shesek> sipa, with -testnet -server
 420 2013-04-13 01:47:47 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: yes
 421 2013-04-13 01:47:56 <EvilPete> by default, osx seems to have
 422 2013-04-13 01:47:57 <EvilPete> -n: file descriptors           256
 423 2013-04-13 01:48:04 <sipa> can you increase that?
 424 2013-04-13 01:48:05 <EvilPete> and the hard limit is unlimited
 425 2013-04-13 01:48:15 <sipa> leveldb assumes 1000
 426 2013-04-13 01:49:13 digitalmagus has quit ()
 427 2013-04-13 01:49:32 <EvilPete> That might explain a few things.. in any case, setrlimit() would allow it to be raised to (say) 4k without any drama
 428 2013-04-13 01:49:33 <sipa> shesek: ok, try bitcoind -testnet -rpcconnect=127.0.0.1 COMMAND
 429 2013-04-13 01:49:53 digitalmagus has joined
 430 2013-04-13 01:50:30 <shesek> sipa, still, "error: couldn't connect to server"
 431 2013-04-13 01:50:54 <sipa> makes no sense...
 432 2013-04-13 01:51:27 <sipa> shesek: what exact commandline are you trying?
 433 2013-04-13 01:51:34 <gmaxwell> 18:25 < EvilPete> -n: file descriptors           256
 434 2013-04-13 01:51:36 <gmaxwell> insane
 435 2013-04-13 01:51:43 <gmaxwell> well that would explain a lot of things I guess.
 436 2013-04-13 01:51:49 SunStar has joined
 437 2013-04-13 01:51:52 <shesek> $ bitcoind -testnet -rpcconnect=127.0.0.1 listaccounts -> error: couldn't connect to server
 438 2013-04-13 01:52:07 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: yep. soft limit is 256, hard is unlimited.  it'll let you raise it at will.
 439 2013-04-13 01:52:17 <shesek> and running bitcoin-qt with "$ bitcoin-qt -testnet -server", which gives no output
 440 2013-04-13 01:52:40 <gmaxwell> shesek: do you even have a copy of bitcoind -testnet running?
 441 2013-04-13 01:52:41 <shesek> I am able to connect with netcat: "$ nc -v localhost 18332" -> Connection to localhost 18332 port [tcp/*] succeeded!
 442 2013-04-13 01:52:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: he's running bitcoin-qt -server
 443 2013-04-13 01:53:01 <gmaxwell> ah
 444 2013-04-13 01:53:14 <sipa> shesek: anything unusual in your bitcoin.conf?
 445 2013-04-13 01:53:42 <shesek> sipa, nope, a fresh install from the ppa
 446 2013-04-13 01:53:48 <shesek> didn't touch the config at all
 447 2013-04-13 01:54:04 <sipa> wait, then how did you get to run the RPC server?
 448 2013-04-13 01:54:12 <sipa> you need a username and password configured
 449 2013-04-13 01:54:35 <shesek> doesn't it default to having no username/password?
 450 2013-04-13 01:54:39 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 451 2013-04-13 01:54:50 <shesek> I was able to run it with "bitcoind -testnet" and execute commands against it with "bitcoind COMMAND"
 452 2013-04-13 01:54:51 <sipa> no
 453 2013-04-13 01:54:59 <sipa> that makes no sense either
 454 2013-04-13 01:55:09 <sipa> what is in your ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf ?
 455 2013-04-13 01:55:12 i2pRelay has joined
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 457 2013-04-13 01:56:06 <EvilPete> sipa: gmaxwell: some evil hack like this might be in order: http://pastebin.com/3L2qY4Xv
 458 2013-04-13 01:56:30 andyh2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 460 2013-04-13 01:56:40 <shesek> oh, oops... it does have a password - I did have bitcoin installed previously from source, I must've configured a password at some point and forgot about it
 461 2013-04-13 01:57:28 RBecker is now known as rbecker
 462 2013-04-13 01:57:35 <shesek> that "couldn't connect to server" error could mean that the password is wrong? I assumed it can't establish a connection at all
 463 2013-04-13 01:57:40 <EvilPete> sipa: gmaxwell: it did restart the reindex right from where it left off though.
 464 2013-04-13 01:57:58 <sipa> shesek: no
 465 2013-04-13 01:58:13 <sipa> shesek: but is there just a username and a passwor there, or also other things?
 466 2013-04-13 01:58:23 <sipa> EvilPete: good
 467 2013-04-13 01:58:36 <shesek> sipa, just a single line, "rpcpassword=..."
 468 2013-04-13 01:58:39 <diki> what would be the difference between db_cxx.a and db_cxx-4.8.a?
 469 2013-04-13 01:58:42 <shesek> no username either
 470 2013-04-13 01:59:02 nova907767 has joined
 471 2013-04-13 01:59:14 <sipa> shesek: do you perhaps have several versions installed?
 472 2013-04-13 01:59:18 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 473 2013-04-13 01:59:19 <sipa> and running the wrong one?
 474 2013-04-13 01:59:23 <sipa> i'm out of ideas
 475 2013-04-13 01:59:41 <sipa> diki: one is the latest, one is specifically version 4.8
 476 2013-04-13 01:59:55 lupine has joined
 477 2013-04-13 02:00:12 * sipa afk
 478 2013-04-13 02:00:16 <shesek> sipa, you got it :)
 479 2013-04-13 02:00:24 <shesek> I probably have the old bitcoind that I installed from source
 480 2013-04-13 02:00:31 Casimir1904 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 481 2013-04-13 02:00:31 <shesek> and the new bitcoin-qt from the ppa
 482 2013-04-13 02:00:44 <sipa> shesek: that still doesn't explain it
 483 2013-04-13 02:01:21 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 484 2013-04-13 02:01:23 <shesek> Bitcoin-Qt version v0.8.1.0-g34d62a8-beta / Bitcoin version 0.3.24-beta
 485 2013-04-13 02:01:41 <sipa> oh wow, so ancient
 486 2013-04-13 02:01:45 <sipa> yes, then anything is possible :D
 487 2013-04-13 02:01:48 <diki> tried linking with the latter as well, same deal, I even let it create new datadir...
 488 2013-04-13 02:01:55 <diki> either it's boost or bdb
 489 2013-04-13 02:02:00 wirehead has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it)
 490 2013-04-13 02:02:08 <sipa> diki: there must be some issue with BDB then, i can't tell, sorry
 491 2013-04-13 02:02:14 <meefozio> Anyone know off-hand a real quick way to grab the current mtgox price from http?
 492 2013-04-13 02:02:14 <shesek> yeah, I installed it a long time ago
 493 2013-04-13 02:02:19 <diki> what about boost's filesystem?
 494 2013-04-13 02:02:24 nova90 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 495 2013-04-13 02:02:28 <shesek> upgrading it did work
 496 2013-04-13 02:02:40 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 497 2013-04-13 02:02:50 <shesek> just a pebmac. sorry :)
 498 2013-04-13 02:02:55 <shesek> and thanks again
 499 2013-04-13 02:03:11 i2pRelay has joined
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 501 2013-04-13 02:05:59 <diki> which version of boost are you guys using for latest git?
 502 2013-04-13 02:07:06 lupine has joined
 503 2013-04-13 02:07:30 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: sipa: issue 2517 with details
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 507 2013-04-13 02:11:55 <Luke-Jr> cool, LLVM supports compiling on Radeons now
 508 2013-04-13 02:12:15 <diki>  ?
 509 2013-04-13 02:12:25 <diki> are you talking about the llvm error with catalyst 13?
 510 2013-04-13 02:12:32 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 511 2013-04-13 02:12:34 <Luke-Jr> no
 512 2013-04-13 02:12:38 lupine has joined
 513 2013-04-13 02:12:46 <Luke-Jr> I'm talking about compiling source code to binary on your GPU
 514 2013-04-13 02:13:06 <diki> no opencl?
 515 2013-04-13 02:13:21 <Luke-Jr> I don't know if it uses OpenCL or not
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 523 2013-04-13 02:15:59 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: apple have been using LLVM internally for their opencl backends for a while.  Its one of the reasons why they fund it.
 524 2013-04-13 02:16:23 <Luke-Jr> EvilPete: sure, but that's completely different from compiling your code on the GPU
 525 2013-04-13 02:16:53 <Diablo-D3> EvilPete: dude
 526 2013-04-13 02:16:55 <EvilPete> oh wait.. misread
 527 2013-04-13 02:16:56 <Diablo-D3> you missed the big example
 528 2013-04-13 02:17:01 <Diablo-D3> apple uses llvm for clang
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 530 2013-04-13 02:17:14 <Diablo-D3> [09:49:43] <Luke-Jr> cool, LLVM supports compiling on Radeons now
 531 2013-04-13 02:17:19 <Diablo-D3> its not for opencl that way
 532 2013-04-13 02:17:30 <Diablo-D3> its so mesa (both Gl and CL) can use it as a shader compiler targert
 533 2013-04-13 02:17:31 <Luke-Jr> compile Bitcoin-Qt on the GPU
 534 2013-04-13 02:17:38 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 535 2013-04-13 02:17:43 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: that would make zero sense and you know it.
 536 2013-04-13 02:17:57 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: seems to work
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 538 2013-04-13 02:18:39 <Diablo-D3> Christ compells you not to be an annoying twat.
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 540 2013-04-13 02:18:46 <nsh> lol
 541 2013-04-13 02:19:02 * nsh likes the cut of Diablo-D3's jibberjabber
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 548 2013-04-13 02:24:26 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: just so I'm clear.. they're running the compiler backend on the gpu itself?
 549 2013-04-13 02:25:53 darenthis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 550 2013-04-13 02:26:01 <Diablo-D3> EvilPete: no
 551 2013-04-13 02:26:11 <Diablo-D3> EvilPete: its a compiler backend that supports r600 as a target
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 554 2013-04-13 02:26:20 <Diablo-D3> as in, I can compile for x86, and I can compile for r600
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 556 2013-04-13 02:26:57 <diki> how would you run it on the gpu?
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 571 2013-04-13 02:31:31 <gruez> Is there a guide on how to cross-compile on a linux machine?
 572 2013-04-13 02:31:51 <gruez> there are instructions for building on linux (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/readme-qt.rst), but what steps are needed for cross compile?
 573 2013-04-13 02:32:30 MobiusL has joined
 574 2013-04-13 02:32:47 <gruez> I've been trying to build on a windows box and pretty much given up
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 576 2013-04-13 02:33:56 <Luke-Jr> EvilPete: correct, nevermind Diablo-D3
 577 2013-04-13 02:34:25 * Diablo-D3 just laughs at luke
 578 2013-04-13 02:34:33 <Luke-Jr> gruez: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/
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 581 2013-04-13 02:36:11 <gruez> Luke-Jr: using the gitan scripts included with bitcoin will build windows binaries as well, correct?
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 583 2013-04-13 02:37:17 <Luke-Jr> gruez: yes
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 599 2013-04-13 02:47:25 <gruez> Luke-Jr: im guessing you install gitan inside your own VM?
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 603 2013-04-13 02:47:43 <Luke-Jr> gruez: no?
 604 2013-04-13 02:47:56 <gruez> Luke-Jr: is it a VM image?
 605 2013-04-13 02:48:01 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 606 2013-04-13 02:48:12 <Luke-Jr> gruez: no, follow the instructions
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 608 2013-04-13 02:49:14 <gruez> Luke-Jr: gitan only works for virtualbox, and the gitan tools only work for linux?
 609 2013-04-13 02:49:34 <Luke-Jr> no, and yes
 610 2013-04-13 02:49:56 <gruez> building bitcoin is hard :(
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 612 2013-04-13 02:51:20 <Luke-Jr> I don't agree.
 613 2013-04-13 02:51:24 i2pRelay has joined
 614 2013-04-13 02:51:45 <gruez> Luke-Jr: how about "building bitcoin on windows is hard"
 615 2013-04-13 02:52:13 <Luke-Jr> building anything on windows is hard
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 617 2013-04-13 02:52:49 <gruez> Luke-Jr: is that for linux ports, or in general?
 618 2013-04-13 02:52:59 <Luke-Jr> gruez: hmm?
 619 2013-04-13 02:53:04 <gruez> open solution in visual studio and clicking build is pretty easy
 620 2013-04-13 02:53:28 <Luke-Jr> ok, so do that if it's that simple
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 625 2013-04-13 02:53:57 <gruez> the vs makefile is broken
 626 2013-04-13 02:54:06 <Luke-Jr> oh, Visual Studio doesn't support standard Makefiles? it doesn't have a standard way to handle dependencies?
 627 2013-04-13 02:54:10 <Luke-Jr> I guess that proves my point
 628 2013-04-13 02:54:18 <gruez> well, it's all done internally
 629 2013-04-13 02:54:28 <gruez> through the .sln file
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 632 2013-04-13 02:55:12 <Luke-Jr> gruez: some non-standard format nobody wants to work with..
 633 2013-04-13 02:55:13 <schmoe> so guys is there a problem with the blockchain? i just read that an NDB-Cluster is broken!?
 634 2013-04-13 02:55:36 <kadoban> schmoe: blockchain.info is just some random site, not required for bitcoin
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 637 2013-04-13 02:56:03 <schmoe> oh ok thank you for this info
 638 2013-04-13 02:56:29 <gruez> Luke-Jr: I guess it goes against open source ideals?
 639 2013-04-13 02:57:11 <Luke-Jr> gruez: the practical reality is, very few programmers want to touch/use Windows any more than necessary, and cross-compiling it from our native Linux environment is far easier
 640 2013-04-13 02:57:23 K1773R is now known as K1773R|OFF
 641 2013-04-13 02:57:25 <Luke-Jr> also, Windows has no way at all to prove the binaries came from the source code
 642 2013-04-13 02:57:39 <Luke-Jr> so there could be trojans embedded in someone's MSVC builds and no way to find out
 643 2013-04-13 02:57:44 <gruez> fair point
 644 2013-04-13 02:57:57 <Luke-Jr> using a controlled Linux build system allows multiple people to produce the exact same binaries
 645 2013-04-13 02:58:02 fiesh has joined
 646 2013-04-13 02:58:50 <gruez> Luke-Jr: there used to be precompiled depenencies available for windows builds
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 648 2013-04-13 02:58:58 <gruez> but that was removed a few commits ago
 649 2013-04-13 02:59:02 <gruez> is there a reason why?
 650 2013-04-13 02:59:20 <Luke-Jr> I don't recall anything like that
 651 2013-04-13 02:59:26 i2pRelay has joined
 652 2013-04-13 02:59:53 <Luke-Jr> as far as I know, only 1 developer uses Windows at all, and he doesn't seem to care maintaining build instructions for it
 653 2013-04-13 02:59:55 <gruez> Luke-Jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/4e70db2a038a5723859f4fbba4020249f92bb770#doc/readme-qt.rst
 654 2013-04-13 02:59:57 kalleboo_ is now known as kalleboo_|away
 655 2013-04-13 03:00:16 <Luke-Jr> gruez: probably because they didn't work
 656 2013-04-13 03:00:25 <gruez> I could copy the depedencies, paste it and click build in qt
 657 2013-04-13 03:00:41 <gruez> and it would work, but it was a long time ago
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 667 2013-04-13 03:06:30 <davis> is there a way to tell if bitcoin is using the gpu?
 668 2013-04-13 03:06:43 <gruez> davis: as in?
 669 2013-04-13 03:06:45 <gruez> for mining?
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 672 2013-04-13 03:07:12 <copumpkin> omg my donation to Luke-Jr for mac builds is worth a lot more than it was when I made it!
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 693 2013-04-13 03:22:49 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: want it back, since I didn't succeed [yet]? :/
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 696 2013-04-13 03:23:31 i2pRelay has joined
 697 2013-04-13 03:25:14 <copumpkin> it's fine, just funny to think of it in current terms :) if you don't want it, I'll take it though!
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 699 2013-04-13 03:26:58 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: I do! XD
 700 2013-04-13 03:27:02 d4de has joined
 701 2013-04-13 03:27:07 <Luke-Jr> one of these days I'll hopefully finish that project
 702 2013-04-13 03:27:53 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: are you going to BC Conf 2013?
 703 2013-04-13 03:28:35 Impaler has joined
 704 2013-04-13 03:28:56 <copumpkin> hmm, maybe! where/when/who?
 705 2013-04-13 03:29:22 <Luke-Jr> http://www.bitcoin2013.com/
 706 2013-04-13 03:29:32 Diapolis has joined
 707 2013-04-13 03:29:59 <copumpkin> ah, probably not then :/ can't make those dates
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 710 2013-04-13 03:31:28 <HM2> http://s14.postimg.org/7m2hyio8t/be_usb1.jpg?noCache=1365780610
 711 2013-04-13 03:31:32 i2pRelay has joined
 712 2013-04-13 03:31:34 <HM2> lol, is this for real. it's adorable?
 713 2013-04-13 03:33:09 <Cryptrader> Could be
 714 2013-04-13 03:33:22 <Cryptrader> Real money to be made designing asics right now...
 715 2013-04-13 03:33:32 <Cryptrader> if you can actually ship them before BFL
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 717 2013-04-13 03:34:11 <HM2> I marvel at hardware people sometimes
 718 2013-04-13 03:34:24 <HM2> i want one in my electric toothbrush
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 734 2013-04-13 03:52:20 <muhoo> hmm, hackathon?
 735 2013-04-13 03:52:50 <muhoo> what't the admission fee for this conference?
 736 2013-04-13 03:52:57 <muhoo> website doesn't seem to say
 737 2013-04-13 03:53:23 <jspilman> 300
 738 2013-04-13 03:53:43 <muhoo> USD or BTC?
 739 2013-04-13 03:53:46 <jspilman> lol
 740 2013-04-13 03:53:47 <jspilman> USD
 741 2013-04-13 03:54:00 <owowo> onr BTC
 742 2013-04-13 03:54:01 <muhoo> well.. i'm kind of surprised the conference isn't in BTC :-P
 743 2013-04-13 03:54:03 <owowo> one
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 745 2013-04-13 03:54:37 <muhoo> i dunno, if some of y'all will be there, it'd be good to come and say hello. not sure if i can spend USD$300 on it tho
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 747 2013-04-13 03:55:29 <jspilman> they had a BTC price up, but it looked like it was hard coded not dynamic based on exchange rate, so they may have taken it down
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 751 2013-04-13 03:57:04 <muhoo> i'll let that sentence just hang there in the air for a moment.
 752 2013-04-13 03:57:10 <gonffen> that price is still there? it says 3.4BTC
 753 2013-04-13 03:57:29 <muhoo> oh, i see, i have javascript off
 754 2013-04-13 03:57:49 <muhoo> yep, 3.4BTC
 755 2013-04-13 03:59:50 <muhoo> i'll wait to see what the schedule looks like. if it's all politcs and VC's, i can't justify spending the money. if it's a developer conference, i could see it being worthwhile.
 756 2013-04-13 03:59:59 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: just the flight is probably at least $300 USD :/
 757 2013-04-13 04:00:12 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: the gas is $20 :-)
 758 2013-04-13 04:00:17 <Luke-Jr> aha
 759 2013-04-13 04:00:32 <digitalmagus> you going Luke-Jr ?
 760 2013-04-13 04:00:36 * muhoo in san francisco
 761 2013-04-13 04:00:54 <Luke-Jr> digitalmagus: probably only if I can find a sponsor
 762 2013-04-13 04:01:04 <digitalmagus> I see
 763 2013-04-13 04:01:04 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: where are you coming from?
 764 2013-04-13 04:01:09 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: Lindsay sent out an email offering free admission if you work half a day :P
 765 2013-04-13 04:01:12 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: Florida
 766 2013-04-13 04:01:19 <muhoo> work half a day? on what?
 767 2013-04-13 04:01:24 <muhoo> i don't know who linday is
 768 2013-04-13 04:01:53 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: registration, manning the Foundation booth, and a few other things
 769 2013-04-13 04:02:00 <Luke-Jr> Lindsay works for the Foundation
 770 2013-04-13 04:02:05 <muhoo> cool, thanks
 771 2013-04-13 04:02:21 <Luke-Jr> you might have to be a member to be eligible though, not sure
 772 2013-04-13 04:02:35 <muhoo> well, hell, that's not too bad. half a day's booth duty for free admission seems a fair trade.
 773 2013-04-13 04:03:06 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: sure, it's also limited in number ofc
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 775 2013-04-13 04:03:33 <digitalmagus> muhoo: I don't think Luke-Jr is pretty enough to volunteer though: http://joyridesimulators.com/uploads/images/nvidia_girls_680.png
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 778 2013-04-13 04:03:55 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: lindsay@bitcoinfoundation.org
 779 2013-04-13 04:04:03 <Luke-Jr> digitalmagus: err, is nvidia going to have a booth? that'd be lol
 780 2013-04-13 04:04:05 <muhoo> oh gawd, if it's goign to be that kind of trade show, i don't want to go
 781 2013-04-13 04:04:19 <digitalmagus> Luke-Jr: it was the fastest thing I could google :P
 782 2013-04-13 04:04:39 <hsmiths> i don't know.  that is all it printed in #bitcoin-RT.  what does the x195 mean?
 783 2013-04-13 04:04:41 <muhoo> booth bimbos and marketing crap, not interested.
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 786 2013-04-13 04:05:13 <digitalmagus> C'mon, nothing wrong with booth bimbos... I'm betting BFL would really benefit from some :P
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 788 2013-04-13 04:05:50 <Luke-Jr> pretty sure BFL will be there
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 790 2013-04-13 04:06:17 <gruez> Luke-Jr: how "working" was the BFL unit that was shown to you?
 791 2013-04-13 04:06:29 superiorchaos__ has joined
 792 2013-04-13 04:06:43 <Luke-Jr> gruez: hmm? I've been mining on my Little Single just fine since I got it
 793 2013-04-13 04:06:50 da2ce7 has joined
 794 2013-04-13 04:06:54 <Luke-Jr> the periodic downtime was mostly my fault
 795 2013-04-13 04:07:29 <gruez> Luke-Jr: Sorry, I meant the "new" BFL ASIC
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 798 2013-04-13 04:08:58 <Luke-Jr> gruez: huh?
 799 2013-04-13 04:09:16 <gruez> nevermind
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 813 2013-04-13 04:19:16 <Tilas> Hi, Sorry to bother everyone. I have been looking over the bitcoin wiki to get an idea of how everything works. But I can't find specific details on how blocks are created, can anyone direct me to any helpful resources?
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 816 2013-04-13 04:20:04 <Tilas> By Created, I don't mean verified by hashing, but rather how the content of a block is chosen.
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 823 2013-04-13 04:24:34 <Luke-Jr> Tilas: that's miner's choice
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 829 2013-04-13 04:28:38 <Tilas> Ok then, So if two miners are both working on two blocks simultaneously, and they both contain the same transaction. Then is the second block to be completed invalidated?
 830 2013-04-13 04:29:45 <Tilas> Or do we simply ignore the second instance of this transaction?
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 837 2013-04-13 04:33:06 <jspilman> if conflicting blocks complete the proof of work, one will get orphaned
 838 2013-04-13 04:34:08 <jspilman> blocks are sequential (each one points to the previous), so a miner would never include a transaction that was already in a prev block - it would be rejected, and a waste of work
 839 2013-04-13 04:34:37 <jspilman> if two blocks both point to the same prior, only one will eventually win out -- the one which the majority of the hashing power decides to accept
 840 2013-04-13 04:34:40 <Tilas> Ah, I forgotten that they had to include the previous hash... THanks very much.
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 846 2013-04-13 04:36:45 <jspilman> I shoudl say 'competing' not 'conflicting' -- they don't have to 'conflict', they could be otherwise identical
 847 2013-04-13 04:38:12 <Luke-Jr> Tilas: also, they never include the same transactions
 848 2013-04-13 04:38:21 <Luke-Jr> Tilas: at the very least, the transaction paying the miner is different
 849 2013-04-13 04:39:24 <Tilas> Thanks very much.
 850 2013-04-13 04:39:28 <Tilas> I think I understand now
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 852 2013-04-13 04:40:54 <Tilas> The 'longest' chain of blocks 'win', and I think I read that longest is related also to difficulty. Is the length the sum of difficulties?
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 863 2013-04-13 04:48:11 <jspilman> luke-jr: good point re: coinbase
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 912 2013-04-13 05:48:49 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 913 2013-04-13 05:48:49 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 914 2013-04-13 05:48:50 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 915 2013-04-13 05:48:53 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 916 2013-04-13 05:48:53 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 917 2013-04-13 05:48:55 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 918 2013-04-13 05:48:56 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 919 2013-04-13 05:48:56 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 920 2013-04-13 05:48:56 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 921 2013-04-13 05:48:56 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 922 2013-04-13 05:48:57 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 923 2013-04-13 05:48:57 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 924 2013-04-13 05:48:57 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 925 2013-04-13 05:48:58 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 926 2013-04-13 05:48:58 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 927 2013-04-13 05:48:59 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 928 2013-04-13 05:48:59 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 929 2013-04-13 05:48:59 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 930 2013-04-13 05:49:00 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 931 2013-04-13 05:49:01 metabyte_ has joined
 932 2013-04-13 05:49:04 <swhitt> fdsagew: byebye
 933 2013-04-13 05:49:12 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 934 2013-04-13 05:49:12 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 935 2013-04-13 05:49:13 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 936 2013-04-13 05:49:13 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 937 2013-04-13 05:49:14 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 938 2013-04-13 05:49:15 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$
 939 2013-04-13 05:49:18 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$
 940 2013-04-13 05:49:19 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 941 2013-04-13 05:49:20 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 942 2013-04-13 05:49:21 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 943 2013-04-13 05:49:25 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 944 2013-04-13 05:49:26 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 945 2013-04-13 05:49:27 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 946 2013-04-13 05:49:27 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 947 2013-04-13 05:49:28 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 948 2013-04-13 05:49:28 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 949 2013-04-13 05:49:29 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 950 2013-04-13 05:49:29 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 951 2013-04-13 05:49:29 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 952 2013-04-13 05:49:30 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 953 2013-04-13 05:49:30 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 954 2013-04-13 05:49:31 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 955 2013-04-13 05:49:32 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 956 2013-04-13 05:49:32 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 957 2013-04-13 05:49:32 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 958 2013-04-13 05:49:33 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 959 2013-04-13 05:49:33 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 960 2013-04-13 05:49:33 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 961 2013-04-13 05:49:47 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 962 2013-04-13 05:49:48 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 963 2013-04-13 05:49:49 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 964 2013-04-13 05:49:59 da2ce7 has joined
 965 2013-04-13 05:50:16 Apexseals has joined
 966 2013-04-13 05:50:24 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 967 2013-04-13 05:50:25 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 968 2013-04-13 05:50:25 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 969 2013-04-13 05:50:26 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 970 2013-04-13 05:50:26 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 971 2013-04-13 05:50:58 Haifisch has joined
 972 2013-04-13 05:51:00 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 973 2013-04-13 05:51:00 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 974 2013-04-13 05:51:01 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 975 2013-04-13 05:51:01 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 976 2013-04-13 05:51:01 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 977 2013-04-13 05:51:02 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 978 2013-04-13 05:51:02 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 979 2013-04-13 05:51:03 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 980 2013-04-13 05:51:24 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 981 2013-04-13 05:51:24 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 982 2013-04-13 05:51:25 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 983 2013-04-13 05:51:26 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 984 2013-04-13 05:51:26 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 985 2013-04-13 05:52:00 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 986 2013-04-13 05:52:01 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 987 2013-04-13 05:52:01 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 988 2013-04-13 05:52:24 manoliyo has joined
 989 2013-04-13 05:52:50 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 990 2013-04-13 05:52:51 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 991 2013-04-13 05:52:51 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 992 2013-04-13 05:52:51 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 993 2013-04-13 05:52:52 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 994 2013-04-13 05:52:52 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
 995 2013-04-13 05:52:52 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 996 2013-04-13 05:52:52 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 997 2013-04-13 05:52:54 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 998 2013-04-13 05:52:54 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
 999 2013-04-13 05:52:55 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1000 2013-04-13 05:53:08 <digitalmagus> good grief, isn't there an auto-kick bot in this place?
1001 2013-04-13 05:53:11 <jolar> someone ban this guy?
1002 2013-04-13 05:53:32 <fanquake> sipa you around?
1003 2013-04-13 05:53:42 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$
1004 2013-04-13 05:53:42 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1005 2013-04-13 05:53:42 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1006 2013-04-13 05:53:43 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1007 2013-04-13 05:53:43 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1008 2013-04-13 05:53:44 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1009 2013-04-13 05:53:44 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1010 2013-04-13 05:53:44 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1011 2013-04-13 05:54:04 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1012 2013-04-13 05:54:16 lupine has joined
1013 2013-04-13 05:55:11 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1014 2013-04-13 05:55:11 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1015 2013-04-13 05:55:12 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1016 2013-04-13 05:55:12 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1017 2013-04-13 05:55:13 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1018 2013-04-13 05:55:13 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1019 2013-04-13 05:55:13 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1020 2013-04-13 05:55:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1021 2013-04-13 05:55:55 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1022 2013-04-13 05:56:07 i2pRelay has joined
1023 2013-04-13 05:56:12 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1024 2013-04-13 05:56:51 Eliel has joined
1025 2013-04-13 05:57:48 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$
1026 2013-04-13 05:57:49 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1027 2013-04-13 05:57:49 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1028 2013-04-13 05:57:50 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1029 2013-04-13 05:57:50 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1030 2013-04-13 05:57:51 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1031 2013-04-13 05:57:51 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1032 2013-04-13 05:57:52 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1033 2013-04-13 05:57:53 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1034 2013-04-13 06:01:10 <fdsagew> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1035 2013-04-13 06:01:25 andyh2 has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1036 2013-04-13 06:02:26 zrad has joined
1037 2013-04-13 06:03:33 <fdsagew> █▓▒50 Bitcoin + Free extra 2 Bitcoin=$1399 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$96.99 5 Bitcoin=$209.99 20 Bitcoin=$699.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$988.99 40 Bitcoin + Free 1 Bitcoin=$1239.99 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
1038 2013-04-13 06:03:36 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1039 2013-04-13 06:04:01 hrewhre has joined
1040 2013-04-13 06:04:07 i2pRelay has joined
1041 2013-04-13 06:04:24 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
1042 2013-04-13 06:04:45 Tilas has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1043 2013-04-13 06:05:05 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1044 2013-04-13 06:05:06 <hrewhre> .http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1045 2013-04-13 06:05:06 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1046 2013-04-13 06:05:06 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1047 2013-04-13 06:05:06 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1048 2013-04-13 06:05:06 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1049 2013-04-13 06:05:07 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1050 2013-04-13 06:05:07 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1051 2013-04-13 06:05:08 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1052 2013-04-13 06:05:08 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1053 2013-04-13 06:05:08 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1054 2013-04-13 06:05:09 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1055 2013-04-13 06:05:20 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1056 2013-04-13 06:05:20 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1057 2013-04-13 06:05:21 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1058 2013-04-13 06:05:21 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1059 2013-04-13 06:05:22 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1060 2013-04-13 06:05:22 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1061 2013-04-13 06:05:23 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1062 2013-04-13 06:05:23 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1063 2013-04-13 06:05:24 <hrewhre> http://goo.gl/i37IH 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) 2 Bitcoin=$174.44 http://goo.gl/i37IH -
1064 2013-04-13 06:05:41 digitalmagus has left ()
1065 2013-04-13 06:05:45 <hrewhre> █▓▒50 Bitcoin + Free extra 2 Bitcoin=$1399 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$96.99 5 Bitcoin=$209.99 20 Bitcoin=$699.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$988.99 40 Bitcoin + Free 1 Bitcoin=$1239.99 50 Bitcoin + Free 2 Bitcoin=$1399.99(special promotion) http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
1066 2013-04-13 06:10:18 Odyessus has joined
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1077 2013-04-13 06:27:27 <neo2> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c8uf7/my_new_blockchain_wallet_already_has_money_in_it/
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1083 2013-04-13 06:28:37 <gmaxwell> neo2: what browser did you use to create the wallet?
1084 2013-04-13 06:29:13 <neo2> gmaxwell, it's not me, it's someone from #bitcoin
1085 2013-04-13 06:29:30 <gmaxwell> neo2: can you ask them what browser they used?
1086 2013-04-13 06:29:34 <neo2> yeah
1087 2013-04-13 06:30:46 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1088 2013-04-13 06:30:51 <neo2> gmaxwell, Google Chrome
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1094 2013-04-13 06:39:35 <Luke-Jr> btw, the new bitcoin-qt icon looks really crappy in KDE
1095 2013-04-13 06:39:47 <Luke-Jr> guess I should comment on the pullreq..
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1107 2013-04-13 06:48:38 <Luke-Jr> ugh, LevelDB *does* suck. My first clean shutdown with a LvlDB client, and it claims it's corrupt next start
1108 2013-04-13 06:50:15 X-Scale has joined
1109 2013-04-13 06:51:02 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I have tested tens of thousands of restart cycles without corruption...
1110 2013-04-13 06:51:13 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: :/
1111 2013-04-13 06:51:21 <gmaxwell> not saying there isn't something up, but it's certantly not as simple as just being unreliable.
1112 2013-04-13 06:51:28 <Luke-Jr> hmm
1113 2013-04-13 06:51:45 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1114 2013-04-13 06:52:00 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if I tried starting the new instance before the first one completely finished shutting down, and Aborting the 2nd one still made the corruption permanent somehow
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1118 2013-04-13 06:54:46 <warren> I lost power on my ext4 laptop and it was corrupted yesterday.  I just reindexed because I thought it was btrfs. I forgot I switched it.
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1123 2013-04-13 06:57:56 <Luke-Jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2518 <-- icon issue
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1127 2013-04-13 06:58:35 <robbak> so I can be prepared: Is there a 0.8.2 release planned, and where is it being worked on?
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1131 2013-04-13 07:01:34 <Luke-Jr> robbak: github master is currently slated for 0.8.2
1132 2013-04-13 07:03:16 <robbak> OK, I'd thought we were headed for 0.9x in master. That's fine, I'm keeping track of that.
1133 2013-04-13 07:03:55 <Luke-Jr> robbak: 0.9.0 is a possible target, but currently the plan is 0.8,2
1134 2013-04-13 07:04:08 <Luke-Jr> if master heads toward 0.9.0, I'll make a 0.8.x branch
1135 2013-04-13 07:04:55 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1136 2013-04-13 07:05:01 <robbak> Great.
1137 2013-04-13 07:05:33 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: did you swap the old and new pictures?
1138 2013-04-13 07:06:15 grau has joined
1139 2013-04-13 07:06:41 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I fixed it with an edit, but maybe the email went out wrong <.<
1140 2013-04-13 07:07:35 <gmaxwell> ah fair enough.
1141 2013-04-13 07:07:37 Haifisch has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1143 2013-04-13 07:07:53 <gmaxwell> I need to start ignoring those emails, a couple of times I've been totally confused by missing an edit.
1144 2013-04-13 07:08:20 i2pRelay has joined
1145 2013-04-13 07:09:11 <warren> I wonder if reddit's BTC tipping means they need to issue 1099's.  Folks were afraid of the legal implications of even smaller payments than that on IRC.
1146 2013-04-13 07:09:37 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1147 2013-04-13 07:09:47 <Luke-Jr> warren: …
1148 2013-04-13 07:11:42 <warren> What?  This was a topic in this channel a while ago.
1149 2013-04-13 07:11:51 da2ce7 has joined
1150 2013-04-13 07:11:55 <gmaxwell> warren: Doesn't mean it belongs in here.
1151 2013-04-13 07:12:03 <warren> yeah, ok
1152 2013-04-13 07:12:06 <gmaxwell> #bitcoin :P
1153 2013-04-13 07:12:34 <Impaler> was wondering if anyone has thoughts on the Terracoin meltdown and what leasons should be drawn from it?
1154 2013-04-13 07:12:51 <warren> Impaler: Learn from history or you are doomed to repeat it.
1155 2013-04-13 07:13:09 <Impaler> yes and the leason is?
1156 2013-04-13 07:13:12 lupine has joined
1157 2013-04-13 07:13:55 <gmaxwell> "don't create a cryptocurrency when you don't know what you're doing"?
1158 2013-04-13 07:14:13 <Luke-Jr> XD
1159 2013-04-13 07:14:21 <warren> And especially don't add it to an exchange where people are trading real money.
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1164 2013-04-13 07:15:32 <Impaler> so you think TRC developers were just over their heads on the technical side of things?
1165 2013-04-13 07:15:32 <warren> Impaler: All of the vulnerabilities exploited through their X mandatory version upgrades were known about and written on the Wiki or forums years ago.
1166 2013-04-13 07:15:47 <gmaxwell> It took me approximately 3 minutes to call how they would die next, and most of that was because it took a while for the patch to load.
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1168 2013-04-13 07:15:55 <Impaler> yea thats the drift I've gotten as well
1169 2013-04-13 07:16:23 i2pRelay has joined
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1171 2013-04-13 07:16:54 <Impaler> what was the whole 'point' of TRC anyway, I never really got it
1172 2013-04-13 07:16:56 paracyst has joined
1173 2013-04-13 07:17:07 <warren> "I was too late to join Bitcoin."
1174 2013-04-13 07:17:23 <Impaler> I though thats was LTC
1175 2013-04-13 07:17:48 <Impaler> everyone knows LTC = scryt
1176 2013-04-13 07:17:50 <gmaxwell> Impaler: why does there need to be a point? it doesn't take but a few minutes to spin up one of these things— at least not after learning some stuf, and the learning is fun
1177 2013-04-13 07:18:01 <Impaler> but what distinquished TRC
1178 2013-04-13 07:18:18 <gmaxwell> Added vulnerabilities for your pleasure.
1179 2013-04-13 07:18:24 Duly has joined
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1181 2013-04-13 07:18:42 <Impaler> indeed
1182 2013-04-13 07:19:03 <gmaxwell> seriously, a bunch of these things change things in bitcoin that are complicated tradeoffs, and they change them without understanding the tradeoffs. Expected result is expected.
1183 2013-04-13 07:19:26 BTCjunkie has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1184 2013-04-13 07:19:30 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: 99% of "altcoins" are just scams really
1185 2013-04-13 07:19:48 <warren> Two new coins launched in the forum recently.  Both were almost copies of Bitcoin or Litecoin with nothing different.  People jump into these things knowing full well it is a bubble that could pop at any moment because they have the intent to screw other people.
1186 2013-04-13 07:20:06 <Impaler> yea but a few do manage to distinquish themselves by having technical inovations
1187 2013-04-13 07:20:40 <gmaxwell> Same thing behind stock pump and dumps.. you get these emails "XRSR Projected to go from 0.04 to $2!!!" ... _everyone_ knows its a pump and dump scam. and still people buy into it
1188 2013-04-13 07:20:41 <Impaler> its kind of depressing how few do have inovations though
1189 2013-04-13 07:21:00 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: I've seen 2-3, including my own
1190 2013-04-13 07:21:17 <Impaler> which one is that Luke?
1191 2013-04-13 07:21:57 <gmaxwell> Impaler: I wouldn't feel guilty in saying that there has been no genuine innovation since namecoin. E.g. PPCoin— it's secured by developer announced checkpoints, might have made sense during the initial POW mining, but now that it's all PoS it's only justified on the basis that PoS isn't adequate to secure it.
1192 2013-04-13 07:22:00 <myirc> maybe I'll dl a ltc mminer and put it on my desktop..
1193 2013-04-13 07:22:33 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: Tonal Bitcoin
1194 2013-04-13 07:22:39 <gmaxwell> Impaler: in ltc they just changed the POW function, "to make it resistant to GPUs" but that failed, and wasn't obviously a good goal to begin with.
1195 2013-04-13 07:22:42 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Freicoin?
1196 2013-04-13 07:23:13 <Impaler> I'd argue FRC has worthy inovations, but then I'm biased
1197 2013-04-13 07:23:34 <warren> I find it amazing that the attacker didn't go further with the attack by screwing over the exchange.  1) send dust to every address. 2) wait for that dust to be inputs in other's transactions. 3) Deposit <big amount of alt>, sell for BTC, withdraw.  4) Reorg 500 blogs with a double spend, effectively stealing money from the exchange and undoing lots of other people's transactions.
1198 2013-04-13 07:23:47 <Impaler> Luke, hadn't heard of Tonal, whats your secret sause, and do ya lot a link?
1199 2013-04-13 07:23:52 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1200 2013-04-13 07:24:16 <warren> s/blogs/blocks/
1201 2013-04-13 07:24:19 <gmaxwell> I haven't been following freicoin closely, but the dermurage stuff makes all kinds of services— e.g. exchanges— very hard.  In general I reject their economic premises, transfering wealth constantly to miners is sure to become distorting and miscalibrated...
1202 2013-04-13 07:24:25 i2pRelay has joined
1203 2013-04-13 07:24:32 <gmaxwell> but perhaps it's innovation— if bad innovation— :P
1204 2013-04-13 07:24:42 <Luke-Jr> yeah, bad innovation is better than the scams IMO
1205 2013-04-13 07:24:53 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_Bitcoin
1206 2013-04-13 07:25:16 <Impaler> yea you can disagree with economic theory, but thats should seperate from technical merit
1207 2013-04-13 07:25:34 <gmaxwell> Impaler: they're related though. Bitcoin wouldn't be secure without its economic basis.
1208 2013-04-13 07:26:17 <Impaler> you mean the merchants and the like?
1209 2013-04-13 07:26:28 grau has joined
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1211 2013-04-13 07:26:49 <Impaler> I'd argume BTC has mostly just got a first mover advantage their and it dosn't prove the validity of economic theory in BTC
1212 2013-04-13 07:26:55 <gmaxwell> I mean that if there wasn't a motivation for miners to behave honestly and to put lots of computing power into securing it.  If you make a simple copy of bitcoin without breaking any of its rules it'll still be insecure.
1213 2013-04-13 07:27:56 <myirc> well first mover advantage has pretty much made every giant in cyberspace..   superior services rarely take over
1214 2013-04-13 07:28:07 <gmaxwell> I'm not claiming the exact details are essential— but that mining is profitable and unfriendly mining undermines value, is.
1215 2013-04-13 07:28:14 <Impaler> well thats gets to another point I've reacently realized, merchants can not be ignored in looking at the 'consensus' of the network
1216 2013-04-13 07:28:28 <gmaxwell> Impaler: sure, who the heck would ignore them????
1217 2013-04-13 07:28:30 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1218 2013-04-13 07:28:41 <myirc> eventually if people get an altcoin adopted in carts/processors... they might find their way in... but.. anyone implementing services isn't going to want to support altcoins at this point
1219 2013-04-13 07:29:02 <Impaler> in the event of a fork, merchants would be highly infulential id desiding which fork lives, so the classic 51% attack is miss-stated in thinking that hashing power alone is what counts
1220 2013-04-13 07:29:10 qeb has joined
1221 2013-04-13 07:29:20 <gmaxwell> Impaler: this is why all full nodes are important and it's not acceptable to just have miners. If you just have miners they'll set themselves a perpetual 100 btc subsidy or the like. :P
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1223 2013-04-13 07:29:46 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: the term we usually use for this is "economic majority"
1224 2013-04-13 07:29:58 <gmaxwell> Impaler: if someone told you "hashing power alone is what counts" they were totally confused, because thats now how the software works.
1225 2013-04-13 07:30:19 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin only follows the highest sum difficulty _valid_ chain.
1226 2013-04-13 07:30:27 <Impaler> say tomorrow that 10% of the BTC hashing power forked, but SilkRoads and most exchanges followed that fork, it would 'win' over the other 90% of hashing becuse they would have the economic engine that gives the currency value
1227 2013-04-13 07:30:50 <warren> Impaler: are the "merchants" of the alt coins organized and skilled enough to force a bad fork to die before people are relying on those confirmed transactions?
1228 2013-04-13 07:30:56 <myirc> lol on #bitcoin a guy showed up and said this.. "< Aethaeryn> Does anyone know of any sort of technical introduction to how financial exchanges work? Basically, the detailed technical specs that one would have to  learn in order to even consider making a Bitcoin exchange.
1229 2013-04-13 07:31:01 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: on the contrary, I would argue that the rest of Bitcoin would say "good riddance" to SR/druggies ;)
1230 2013-04-13 07:31:01 <gmaxwell> Now if you're saying that merchants are going to decide between multiple candidate valid chains, thats not so clear— they don't have a good fast consensus mechenism .... and the consequence of changing off the longest one grow rapidly with every block.
1231 2013-04-13 07:31:27 <gmaxwell> myirc: I'm sure he'll be running a major service in three weeks
1232 2013-04-13 07:31:53 <Impaler> well we really don't know how big the merchants are in BTC
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1234 2013-04-13 07:32:13 <Impaler> its widely belived SilkRoads is still the largest
1235 2013-04-13 07:32:18 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: we know that MtGox does more bitcoin transactions than the entire blockchain
1236 2013-04-13 07:32:20 lupine has joined
1237 2013-04-13 07:32:28 i2pRelay has joined
1238 2013-04-13 07:32:37 <warren> Luke-Jr: more than DP?
1239 2013-04-13 07:32:38 Thepok has joined
1240 2013-04-13 07:32:38 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: widely believed by druggies and crazy media
1241 2013-04-13 07:32:44 <Luke-Jr> warren: yes
1242 2013-04-13 07:32:53 <Impaler> DP?
1243 2013-04-13 07:33:06 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: Dead Puppies - a DDoS attack on the blockchain
1244 2013-04-13 07:33:14 <warren> Impaler: http://pastebin.com/ng9nF4K3
1245 2013-04-13 07:33:22 <Impaler> oh though thats was a merchant
1246 2013-04-13 07:33:45 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: they're constantly flooding, so it's the biggest "user" of the blockchain
1247 2013-04-13 07:34:33 <Impaler> besides the socks and a few small nitch things SilkRoads is practically the only thing that reallly supports BTC with actual goods
1248 2013-04-13 07:34:45 lupine has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1249 2013-04-13 07:35:10 <Impaler> exchanges exist to complete the loop with services like SR
1250 2013-04-13 07:35:21 <Luke-Jr> Impaler: no, that is media nonsense
1251 2013-04-13 07:36:03 <Impaler> then what other merchants do we have?
1252 2013-04-13 07:36:08 <Luke-Jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
1253 2013-04-13 07:36:09 <X-Factor> I disagree, you have the bitcoinstore.com , coinabul.com, vpn and domain services, I've purchased a good deal of electronics and services with btc
1254 2013-04-13 07:36:15 grau has joined
1255 2013-04-13 07:36:44 <Impaler> Are their any numbers on the amount of this trade?
1256 2013-04-13 07:36:52 kalleboo_ has joined
1257 2013-04-13 07:37:25 <X-Factor> largest merchant payment processor did 5 million in march alone
1258 2013-04-13 07:38:10 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1259 2013-04-13 07:38:23 <warren> Impaler: another issue with believing "merchants" can force a particular fork is the attack can be repeated.
1260 2013-04-13 07:39:10 paulo_ has joined
1261 2013-04-13 07:39:19 <Impaler> I'm assuming merchants knowingly choose one fork to support and to reject another
1262 2013-04-13 07:39:23 <X-Factor> merchants dictate nothing as far as block chain, is what ever chain has the most hashing power to validate the blocks
1263 2013-04-13 07:39:55 <Impaler> I'm talking about a situation of two mutually rejecting forks
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1265 2013-04-13 07:40:00 <Luke-Jr> X-Factor: no
1266 2013-04-13 07:40:20 <Luke-Jr> X-Factor: hashing power is irrelevant and ignored, if the blocks are invalid
1267 2013-04-13 07:40:21 <Impaler> both would continue to run, just at different difficulties
1268 2013-04-13 07:40:30 i2pRelay has joined
1269 2013-04-13 07:40:31 <Luke-Jr> X-Factor: merchants inevitably decide what "valid" means
1270 2013-04-13 07:40:42 manoliyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1271 2013-04-13 07:40:50 <Luke-Jr> because all that matters in the end, is the what the guy you want to pay will accept
1272 2013-04-13 07:41:41 <Impaler> exactly and a few key merchants hold enough importance to the valation of the currency that they can basicly make the rival branch a massive loss to mine
1273 2013-04-13 07:42:01 <Luke-Jr> few? one right now
1274 2013-04-13 07:42:16 <Luke-Jr> MtGox is the largest "liquidity pool" that merchants rely on
1275 2013-04-13 07:42:18 <Impaler> and their supported branch very profitable, so they will such up all the miners that don't want to lose their shirts
1276 2013-04-13 07:43:10 <Impaler> yea Gox alone is probably big enough to control it, a coalition of them an some other merchants certainly
1277 2013-04-13 07:43:11 lupine has joined
1278 2013-04-13 07:43:45 <Impaler> though their is wide expectation that Gox will lose market share after this crash and service interuption, and their lame PR
1279 2013-04-13 07:44:10 <X-Factor> gox going down is probably best thing that could have happened, I hope it spooked people enough to move to other exchanges
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1290 2013-04-13 07:50:19 <ramontayag> Would this be the right room to ask questions about the bitcoin testnet? I'm trying to run https://github.com/freewil/bitcoin-testnet-box but I'm not able to generate any coins, even with generation on. It's been running for about 1 hour.
1291 2013-04-13 07:50:33 <Impaler> I think so
1292 2013-04-13 07:50:57 <ramontayag> testnet box, I mean. Not necessarily the testnet.
1293 2013-04-13 07:51:06 <Impaler> I'm loggin off though, later folks
1294 2013-04-13 07:51:11 Impaler has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
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1307 2013-04-13 08:05:53 <paulo_> ;;ticket
1308 2013-04-13 08:05:54 <gribble> Error: "ticket" is not a valid command.
1309 2013-04-13 08:05:57 <paulo_> ;;ticker
1310 2013-04-13 08:05:58 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 117.39793, Best ask: 117.40000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00207, Last trade: 117.40000, 24 hour volume: 525565.68461449, 24 hour low: 54.25000, 24 hour high: 130.00000, 24 hour vwap: 88.25529
1311 2013-04-13 08:06:06 <paulo_> hmm price is up again
1312 2013-04-13 08:06:27 <Scrat> wrong channel brah
1313 2013-04-13 08:07:52 <warren> gribble could be modified to respond "wrong channel".
1314 2013-04-13 08:09:29 <gmaxwell> paulo_: #bitcoin-pricetalk ... not here.
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1449 2013-04-13 09:54:41 <threepence> any testnet coins to spare?  n3jpF4aPys9ixWqci3qaKZF25chJdnrebS
1450 2013-04-13 09:55:04 qwebirc7995 has joined
1451 2013-04-13 09:55:06 <threepence> thanks
1452 2013-04-13 09:55:23 <robbak> too late.
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1455 2013-04-13 09:58:50 <paulo_> threepence: doesn't the testnet faucet operate?
1456 2013-04-13 10:00:17 bytecoin has joined
1457 2013-04-13 10:02:00 <threepence> paulo_:  just found it
1458 2013-04-13 10:02:41 <threepence> I assume it runs on the main testnet, but am not getting any confirmations
1459 2013-04-13 10:02:53 <threepence> maybe its is just slow in comparison
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1467 2013-04-13 10:05:55 <jaromil> jgarzik: goodmorning when you are there I still have a question about usage of getdata in picocoin. likely last one :^)
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1480 2013-04-13 10:24:35 <jgarzik> jaromil: sure
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1484 2013-04-13 10:25:06 <jaromil> jgarzik: thanks!! in brief, just wanted to ask if there is an example of usage for "getdata" and retrieval of info from it
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1486 2013-04-13 10:25:43 <jaromil> its the only thing missing for a first prototype of what could a "btcheckpaid" application linking picocoin :^)
1487 2013-04-13 10:26:15 <jaromil> the info I need is the destination address and the amount. but in general I'd like to understand that side of your API
1488 2013-04-13 10:27:10 <jaromil> beware if you help me getting along with this I have such a good feeling that I might end up building a cash register application soon
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1490 2013-04-13 10:28:16 <jgarzik> jaromil: nc_msg_inv() already sends "getdata" in response to "inv", so that's your example.  To watch for transactions, you merely need to add code for the "case MSG_TX:" that is similar to "case MSG_BLOCK:"
1491 2013-04-13 10:28:19 <jaromil> but well, for now I guess it will be only used to gather subscriptions to the pirate party and to sell slimy bacterial colonies
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1495 2013-04-13 10:28:36 <jgarzik> jaromil: that will cause TX's to be requested, which in turn, will cause "tx" messages to be sent to you
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1498 2013-04-13 10:28:59 <jgarzik> jaromil: and "tx" messages are what contains the actual transactions
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1504 2013-04-13 10:29:41 <jgarzik> jaromil:
1505 2013-04-13 10:29:42 <jgarzik>         /* send getdata, if they have anything we want */
1506 2013-04-13 10:29:42 <jgarzik>         if (mv_out.invs && mv_out.invs->len) {
1507 2013-04-13 10:29:42 <jgarzik>                 GString *s = ser_msg_vinv(&mv_out);
1508 2013-04-13 10:29:42 <jgarzik>                 rc = nc_conn_send(conn, "getdata", s->str, s->len);
1509 2013-04-13 10:29:50 <jaromil> jgarzik: ok I did that, MSG_TX and saw the getdata sent when mv_out.invs is initialized
1510 2013-04-13 10:30:20 <jaromil> I changed the interesting material is matching my interest and nc_conn_send(conn, "getdata", is executed
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1512 2013-04-13 10:30:35 <jaromil> my question is how do I get results from that getdata using your api
1513 2013-04-13 10:30:49 <jaromil> or just reading into which buffer, sorry I couldn't understand that yet
1514 2013-04-13 10:31:27 <jaromil> the rest I have ready, wallet opening, new address creation and keyset read for the match, all looks very smooth
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1517 2013-04-13 10:36:19 <jgarzik> jaromil: when you send "getdata", it should trigger one or more "tx" messages
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1520 2013-04-13 10:36:45 <jgarzik> jaromil: those would be noticed in nc_conn_message(), when you add some code to notice "tx"
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1524 2013-04-13 10:38:03 <jaromil> oh, I see. the brd code has no case for "tx"
1525 2013-04-13 10:38:09 <jaromil> i'll just add it
1526 2013-04-13 10:38:56 <jaromil> is there any struct that maps the transaction or I'll parse it on my own?
1527 2013-04-13 10:39:21 <jaromil> well I can answer myself this with a bit of research
1528 2013-04-13 10:39:36 <jaromil> I just want to make sure that I use your api to the full potential
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1532 2013-04-13 10:44:00 <jgarzik> jaromil: bp_tx
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1534 2013-04-13 10:45:14 <jaromil> right on. or txout if I want just that, I guess in this case
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1536 2013-04-13 10:45:34 <jaromil> thanks jgarzik your code rocks. keep it minimal!! ;^)
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1551 2013-04-13 10:55:43 <bitnumus> ;;tblb 42m
1552 2013-04-13 10:55:43 <gribble> Error: "tblb" is not a valid command.
1553 2013-04-13 10:56:16 <bitnumus> whats the command for checking block probability for time /
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1563 2013-04-13 11:03:08 <Scrat> ;;bc,tblb 42m
1564 2013-04-13 11:03:10 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1565 2013-04-13 11:03:43 <Scrat> ;;bc,tblb 0.7h
1566 2013-04-13 11:03:46 <gribble> Error: '0.7h' is not a valid argument.
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1568 2013-04-13 11:04:01 <warren> Whoever runs gribble, please make it reject most commands in this channel?
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1570 2013-04-13 11:04:14 <Scrat> chill
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1608 2013-04-13 11:27:41 <fishfish> hi guys, do you know if it's possible to set the trx fee *per transaction* as opposed to *on bitcoind startup*
1609 2013-04-13 11:28:39 <HM2> lmao
1610 2013-04-13 11:28:55 <HM2> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c8yqr/scary_stackoverflow_question_from_bitcoin24s_admin/
1611 2013-04-13 11:29:16 <HM2> fishfish: you can do it if you create a raw transaction, i know that much
1612 2013-04-13 11:29:33 <HM2> unfortunately i don't know much else
1613 2013-04-13 11:29:36 <fishfish> thank you HM2
1614 2013-04-13 11:29:53 <HM2> you should checkout the API list
1615 2013-04-13 11:30:02 dbe has joined
1616 2013-04-13 11:30:02 <fishfish> and yes these quesitons form bitcoin24 admins aren't reassuring
1617 2013-04-13 11:30:03 <fishfish> ;)
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1627 2013-04-13 11:38:21 <_dr> i bet they all use sql and are in the dark why their new multicore system doesn't scale up ;)
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1631 2013-04-13 11:39:58 <HM2> _dr, probably
1632 2013-04-13 11:40:03 <fishfish> well to be fair on a transactional system you probably want to use something that's ACID compliant
1633 2013-04-13 11:40:08 rich__ has joined
1634 2013-04-13 11:40:14 <fishfish> but yeah they probably don't know what they are doing anyway
1635 2013-04-13 11:40:26 <Scrat> _dr: point me to a non-sql system that is ACID, not beta, and battle tested
1636 2013-04-13 11:40:30 <_dr> sure, but sql and hf trading...
1637 2013-04-13 11:40:35 liva has joined
1638 2013-04-13 11:40:43 <fishfish> CAP theorem for the win
1639 2013-04-13 11:40:44 <Scrat> engine != db
1640 2013-04-13 11:40:46 ahf has joined
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1642 2013-04-13 11:41:09 <HM2> you presumably need some kind of journaling system so you don't lose orders, but also do things all in memory when it comes to the engine
1643 2013-04-13 11:41:29 i2pRelay has joined
1644 2013-04-13 11:41:36 <HM2> something like in -> journal -> matching engine -> matches to journal/db
1645 2013-04-13 11:41:42 <HM2> but what do i know
1646 2013-04-13 11:41:52 <Scrat> fishfish: not really relevant when you have 3 servers in the same rack
1647 2013-04-13 11:41:53 <fishfish> more than the guys at bitcoin24 apparently :)
1648 2013-04-13 11:42:00 <fishfish> Scrat: true :)
1649 2013-04-13 11:42:01 <Scrat> nosql doesn't mean over the internet
1650 2013-04-13 11:42:12 <_dr> Scrat: the P is if your rack burns down ;)
1651 2013-04-13 11:42:19 <HM2> http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/ <-- ;)
1652 2013-04-13 11:42:19 <fishfish> haha
1653 2013-04-13 11:42:49 <fishfish> that link is hilaroius
1654 2013-04-13 11:42:51 <_dr> well, it's no wonder guys in high frequency are paid so much
1655 2013-04-13 11:43:03 qwebirc26979 has joined
1656 2013-04-13 11:43:05 <_dr> i don't think they're paid to set up a journaling fs or some sqld
1657 2013-04-13 11:43:26 one_zero has quit ()
1658 2013-04-13 11:43:59 <qwebirc26979> Is anyone building a system for exchanging Bitcoins with people?
1659 2013-04-13 11:44:04 <_dr> i've heard they all run custom-made ibm cpus with >5-6GHz and ridiculous amounts of fast caches
1660 2013-04-13 11:44:43 <qwebirc26979> Like a craigslist for Bitcoin?
1661 2013-04-13 11:44:51 <Scrat> _id: I doubt it, nanoseconds ain't gonna do much when it takes milliseconds to get to the exchange
1662 2013-04-13 11:45:08 <fishfish> i don't know about HFT, but I was lucky enough to work on transactional systems for retailers, and had mates at IBM with whom I discussed the LSE systems. It made my head spin. It's borderline insane, the ammount of kit they have
1663 2013-04-13 11:45:17 <HM2> i know at betfair (high volume sports betting) the order book runs a match cycle every 20ms
1664 2013-04-13 11:45:29 <HM2> i can't remember where i read that though
1665 2013-04-13 11:45:33 <warren> qwebirc26979: #bitcoin-otc and http://bitcoin-otc.com  Not this channel.
1666 2013-04-13 11:45:34 <_dr> Scrat: which is why they colocate at the exchange and sometimes use RF instead of cables, because you get ~1c instead of 0.6c in copper
1667 2013-04-13 11:45:52 <_dr> sounds crazy, but it's true
1668 2013-04-13 11:45:58 kodkod has joined
1669 2013-04-13 11:46:14 <warren> fishfish: LSE based on Microsoft that went horribly wrong, or later when they switched to Linuxx?
1670 2013-04-13 11:46:21 <Scrat> who uses RF, got any link for that? it has to encode and decode the signal too
1671 2013-04-13 11:46:38 <Scrat> copper isnt 0.6c
1672 2013-04-13 11:46:47 <Scrat> that's fiber
1673 2013-04-13 11:47:01 <_dr> no
1674 2013-04-13 11:47:06 <_dr> fiber has photons, they travel at c
1675 2013-04-13 11:47:10 <Scrat> copper is 1c
1676 2013-04-13 11:47:16 <_dr> copper has electrons, they travel at 2/3c
1677 2013-04-13 11:47:20 <Scrat> ok now you're torlling
1678 2013-04-13 11:47:28 <warren> _dr: photons do not travel in fiber at c.
1679 2013-04-13 11:47:31 darenthis_ has quit (Quit: darenthis_)
1680 2013-04-13 11:47:46 <_dr> yeah 1-epsilon, but faster than electrons
1681 2013-04-13 11:47:46 <Arnavion> Actually electrons in copper travel at the order of centimeters per second
1682 2013-04-13 11:47:51 <HM2> actually electrons don't travel at the speed of light
1683 2013-04-13 11:47:55 <Arnavion> What you really care about is how fast the field propagates
1684 2013-04-13 11:47:59 <Arnavion> /nitpick
1685 2013-04-13 11:48:02 <Scrat> Arnavion: which is 1c
1686 2013-04-13 11:48:06 <HM2> oh Arnavion said it first
1687 2013-04-13 11:48:06 <Scrat> or very close to it
1688 2013-04-13 11:48:07 <_dr> Arnavion: that's what i means
1689 2013-04-13 11:48:10 <_dr> :)
1690 2013-04-13 11:48:13 <Arnavion> Scrat: Of course not
1691 2013-04-13 11:48:42 <Arnavion> The electric field propagates because of electrons pushing against each other
1692 2013-04-13 11:48:54 <warren> _dr: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/03/internet-at-the-speed-of-light/  "light travels about 31 percent slower through fiber optical cables than it does through a vacuum."
1693 2013-04-13 11:48:58 paulo_ has joined
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1695 2013-04-13 11:49:05 <_dr> oh i just read that i was talking about coax
1696 2013-04-13 11:49:09 <Arnavion> Even photons don't manage to maintain 1c in non-vacuum, there's no way electrons pushing at each other could propagate a field at 1c
1697 2013-04-13 11:49:31 i2pRelay has joined
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1699 2013-04-13 11:49:40 <Scrat> Arnavion: well you're nitpicking again, I corrected to "close to c"
1700 2013-04-13 11:49:51 <_dr> here's something on RF http://www.nexxcomwireless.com/2012/04/27/the-race-to-zero-rf-considerations-in-wireless-high-frequency-trading-architectures/
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1702 2013-04-13 11:50:23 <Arnavion> >Propagation speed is affected by insulation, so that in an unshielded copper conductor ranges 95 to 97% that of the speed of light, while in a typical coaxial cable it is about 66% of the speed of light.[1]
1703 2013-04-13 11:50:27 <Arnavion> So sayeth Wikipedia
1704 2013-04-13 11:50:40 <warren> how is this relevant to #bitcoin-dev?
1705 2013-04-13 11:50:42 <Arnavion> So both you and _dr are right
1706 2013-04-13 11:50:48 <Arnavion> Now stop being off-topic
1707 2013-04-13 11:50:49 <Scrat> warren is right :)
1708 2013-04-13 11:51:13 <Arnavion> and spam about whether you think BTC are going up, down, or sideways
1709 2013-04-13 11:51:15 <Arnavion> (j/k)
1710 2013-04-13 11:51:27 xenesis_ has joined
1711 2013-04-13 11:51:30 bwen has joined
1712 2013-04-13 11:51:34 <HM2> it was on topic
1713 2013-04-13 11:51:40 <HM2> it was about exchange dev at first :P
1714 2013-04-13 11:51:42 <_dr> hey, at least we're discussion techical things of exchanges, not the price
1715 2013-04-13 11:52:14 <Diablo-D3> [07:28:15] <Arnavion> >Propagation speed is affected by insulation, so that in an unshielded copper conductor ranges 95 to 97% that of the speed of light, while in a typical coaxial cable it is about 66% of the speed of light.[1]
1716 2013-04-13 11:52:27 <Scrat> good morning Diablo-D3
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1718 2013-04-13 11:52:29 <Diablo-D3> it depends on thickness of the coax conductor
1719 2013-04-13 11:52:38 <Arnavion> Yes of course
1720 2013-04-13 11:52:45 <Diablo-D3> it also depends on the frequency
1721 2013-04-13 11:52:48 <HM2> Derp
1722 2013-04-13 11:52:57 <Diablo-D3> copper conductors suffer from the skin effect at high frequencies
1723 2013-04-13 11:53:01 <Arnavion> I just quoted that because one of them was arguing about 66% and the other "close to 1c"
1724 2013-04-13 11:53:05 <Arnavion> and both are right
1725 2013-04-13 11:53:10 <Diablo-D3> ahh
1726 2013-04-13 11:53:13 <Diablo-D3> yes, both are right
1727 2013-04-13 11:53:19 cap2002 has joined
1728 2013-04-13 11:53:20 <Diablo-D3> but if you're doing network engineering over long distances
1729 2013-04-13 11:53:25 <Diablo-D3> you have to know the difference
1730 2013-04-13 11:53:36 <HM2> surely you'd be using fibre over long distances, not copper
1731 2013-04-13 11:53:47 <HM2> fiber even
1732 2013-04-13 11:53:56 <HM2> using fibre might keep things regular though
1733 2013-04-13 11:53:57 <Scrat> fibre.co.uk
1734 2013-04-13 11:54:08 <rcknight> Scrat … you mentioned it ages ago, but btw... there are ACID nosql databases :)
1735 2013-04-13 11:54:18 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1736 2013-04-13 11:54:19 xenesis_ is now known as xenesis
1737 2013-04-13 11:54:19 <Scrat> rcknight: I didn't say that there arent
1738 2013-04-13 11:54:25 Elmf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1739 2013-04-13 11:54:26 <Diablo-D3> HM2: yes, but remember, fiber is not magic
1740 2013-04-13 11:54:39 <HM2> citation needed
1741 2013-04-13 11:54:45 qwebirc26979 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1742 2013-04-13 11:54:50 <HM2> I'm pretty sure it's magic
1743 2013-04-13 11:54:58 <Diablo-D3> <what no one in here will ever say> NO DIABLO, FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC
1744 2013-04-13 11:55:00 <_dr> yeah, but bosons don't interfere as much as fermions
1745 2013-04-13 11:55:01 <Arnavion> It does have sparkles of light when you look at it head-on
1746 2013-04-13 11:55:03 <Diablo-D3> and then I would have to kill them
1747 2013-04-13 11:55:08 bytecoin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1748 2013-04-13 11:55:14 <Arnavion> NO DIABLO, FRIE-
1749 2013-04-13 11:55:22 * Arnavion dies from a headshot out of nowhere
1750 2013-04-13 11:55:25 Elmf has joined
1751 2013-04-13 11:55:32 <_dr> rogue electron
1752 2013-04-13 11:55:51 <Scrat> Diablo-D3 wants to web the entire continent in fiber so he can spy on people like Bruce Wayne
1753 2013-04-13 11:56:46 <HM2> spying on Bruce Wayne would be rather dull
1754 2013-04-13 11:56:53 bytecoin has joined
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1756 2013-04-13 11:57:12 <HM2> besides, I'm pretty sure Batman would use Bitcoin
1757 2013-04-13 11:57:21 <_dr> bitman!
1758 2013-04-13 11:57:21 <Arnavion> Batcoin*
1759 2013-04-13 11:57:22 <Scrat> like bruce wayne, aka 3d sonar
1760 2013-04-13 11:57:26 <Diablo-D3> batman probably invented batcoin
1761 2013-04-13 11:57:26 <rcknight> Scrat: ok so you said there aren't non-beta ones :) RavenDB is at least one counterexample
1762 2013-04-13 11:57:33 i2pRelay has joined
1763 2013-04-13 11:57:37 <HM2> he has a lot of military purchases and Wayne Enterprise embezzling to hide
1764 2013-04-13 11:58:03 <Scrat> rcknight: battle tested = financial institutions using it in production
1765 2013-04-13 11:59:06 <rcknight> ok if that is your definition of battle-tested … i sure wouldn't use raven for anything high-freq :D but it is production ready :)
1766 2013-04-13 11:59:30 <Scrat> or you can be like coinbase and use a hipster database like mongo
1767 2013-04-13 11:59:38 <Scrat> and end up with negative balances :)
1768 2013-04-13 11:59:52 PartTimeLegend has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1769 2013-04-13 11:59:54 * Scrat uses mongo daily btw
1770 2013-04-13 11:59:56 <rcknight> hehe
1771 2013-04-13 12:00:16 <rcknight> in fact we just migrated away from raven at work, but i still like it :)
1772 2013-04-13 12:00:45 * Scrat ends this offtopic madness
1773 2013-04-13 12:01:23 <robbak> satoshi == batman??
1774 2013-04-13 12:02:18 <Diablo-D3> so
1775 2013-04-13 12:02:23 <Diablo-D3> if a bit is a single binary digit
1776 2013-04-13 12:02:23 Peacemaker420 has joined
1777 2013-04-13 12:02:32 <Diablo-D3> would a tit be a single ternary digit?
1778 2013-04-13 12:02:39 someorother has joined
1779 2013-04-13 12:02:45 <robbak> If you were so inclined.
1780 2013-04-13 12:03:58 cap2002 has quit ()
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1783 2013-04-13 12:05:30 <Arnavion> Ah, drift velocity
1784 2013-04-13 12:05:33 i2pRelay has joined
1785 2013-04-13 12:05:36 <Arnavion> That was the name
1786 2013-04-13 12:05:42 vigilyn3 has joined
1787 2013-04-13 12:05:55 <Arnavion> Long forgotten memories of high school physics are resurfacing
1788 2013-04-13 12:05:57 vigilyn2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1789 2013-04-13 12:06:36 pauklo__ has joined
1790 2013-04-13 12:07:20 xenesis has quit (Quit: xenesis)
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1793 2013-04-13 12:11:09 <wallet42> is c4bbcb1fbec99d65bf59d85c8cb62ee2db963f0fe106f483d9afa73bd4e39a8a a good private key?
1794 2013-04-13 12:11:32 <HM2> not anymore
1795 2013-04-13 12:11:38 teff has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1796 2013-04-13 12:12:10 <wallet42> dammit
1797 2013-04-13 12:12:26 <HM2> hah SHA256("correct horse battery staple")
1798 2013-04-13 12:12:34 <wallet42> :D
1799 2013-04-13 12:12:40 <HM2> wallet42: i do believe all 256bit values are valid private keys
1800 2013-04-13 12:12:40 <wallet42> somone actually used it
1801 2013-04-13 12:12:51 <wallet42> not all
1802 2013-04-13 12:12:55 <wallet42> but 99.999%
1803 2013-04-13 12:13:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1804 2013-04-13 12:13:34 <wallet42> https://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T
1805 2013-04-13 12:13:36 <HM2> yeah 0xFFFF ... C2F - FFF excluded
1806 2013-04-13 12:13:37 i2pRelay has joined
1807 2013-04-13 12:13:46 <HM2> i think
1808 2013-04-13 12:14:12 <wallet42> this is the bitcoin adress for correct horse battery staple
1809 2013-04-13 12:14:20 <[psy]> haha
1810 2013-04-13 12:14:23 <[psy]> nice password :)
1811 2013-04-13 12:18:25 saulimus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1812 2013-04-13 12:21:03 <HM2> ergh
1813 2013-04-13 12:21:06 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1814 2013-04-13 12:21:09 <fishfish> these brain wallets are being hacked letf right and center. It's really easy to generate all the SHA256 for common passwords, incluidng horse battery staple lol
1815 2013-04-13 12:21:14 <HM2> i wish boost asio documentation was more thorough on how to extend it
1816 2013-04-13 12:21:38 i2pRelay has joined
1817 2013-04-13 12:22:04 <HM2> i watched a video talk on extending boost asio but it focused on existing workings rather than summarising what you have to do
1818 2013-04-13 12:23:29 Hawkwood has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1819 2013-04-13 12:26:32 saulimus has joined
1820 2013-04-13 12:26:41 <wallet42> well if the brain wallet is long enough and RANDOM i think its safe?
1821 2013-04-13 12:26:58 <wallet42> so not a brainwallet with common catchphrases
1822 2013-04-13 12:27:38 <wallet42> something that is not in http://books.google.com/ngrams/
1823 2013-04-13 12:28:53 <HM2> 10 random alphanum chars gets you 60 bits of key strength, a random bitcoin key has 256
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1829 2013-04-13 12:32:31 <wallet42> diceware is a dictonary of 7776 words
1830 2013-04-13 12:33:17 bwen has left ()
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1832 2013-04-13 12:34:12 <HM2> my system
1833 2013-04-13 12:34:13 <HM2> [andrew@tinkerbell ~]$ wc -l /usr/share/dict/words-insane
1834 2013-04-13 12:34:15 <HM2> 670204 /usr/share/dict/words-insane
1835 2013-04-13 12:34:42 <wallet42> if you take 12 words from a 7777 dict
1836 2013-04-13 12:34:52 <wallet42> you have more than 160 bit entropy
1837 2013-04-13 12:35:02 <wallet42> which is more than there are bitcoin adresses
1838 2013-04-13 12:35:14 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1839 2013-04-13 12:35:27 <HM2> sure but remembering 12 words is painful
1840 2013-04-13 12:35:59 <median^> just dont use brainwallets
1841 2013-04-13 12:36:02 <wallet42> i havent tried it but i think since they are dictionary words its possible
1842 2013-04-13 12:36:27 qwebirc51857 has joined
1843 2013-04-13 12:36:59 <HM2> median^: especially not using sha256. Bitcoin actually promotes the advancement of sha256 hashing processors
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1848 2013-04-13 12:37:29 <wallet42> yes
1849 2013-04-13 12:37:37 pauklo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1850 2013-04-13 12:37:37 * HM2 goes back to looking at Boost Asios internals
1851 2013-04-13 12:37:43 i2pRelay has joined
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1853 2013-04-13 12:37:59 <median^> in fact, don't use Electrum either, you lose like 1/3 of the entropy in the seed
1854 2013-04-13 12:38:30 <wallet42> vanitygen has max entropy?
1855 2013-04-13 12:40:02 <median^> its just if you're really paranoid
1856 2013-04-13 12:40:12 protojay__ has joined
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1858 2013-04-13 12:42:39 <_dr> tell that to people that used debian to generate ssh keys ;)
1859 2013-04-13 12:43:18 mastertheknife has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1860 2013-04-13 12:43:26 <_dr> next gen intel cpus will have random number generators, we'll be fine then
1861 2013-04-13 12:43:28 moarrr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1862 2013-04-13 12:44:08 mastertheknife has joined
1863 2013-04-13 12:44:17 <_dr> note the lack of pseudo-, though i don't know if that's just a marketing stunt
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1869 2013-04-13 12:47:12 <pjorrit_> sounds like awesome technology, but we'll see how that pans out
1870 2013-04-13 12:47:46 <_dr> though ronak mentioned it's just meant for seeding, as the instruction has a really high latency
1871 2013-04-13 12:49:16 Xeno-Genesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1872 2013-04-13 12:51:08 <pjorrit_> i thought i saw some pretty high bandwidth numbers for it, wonder how much seeding intel is expecting to do :)
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1909 2013-04-13 13:23:14 PartTimeLegend is now known as PartTimeAway
1910 2013-04-13 13:23:17 savantguy has joined
1911 2013-04-13 13:23:19 <paulo_> I was thinking
1912 2013-04-13 13:23:47 <paulo_> if I was ever to create another crypto coin
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1914 2013-04-13 13:25:41 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1915 2013-04-13 13:25:56 i2pRelay has joined
1916 2013-04-13 13:26:45 <paulo_> the network would assign "officers" that can decide on the current difficulty
1917 2013-04-13 13:27:07 <paulo_> those officers can be voted on by the network every unit of time
1918 2013-04-13 13:27:10 graingert has joined
1919 2013-04-13 13:29:00 pesto has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1920 2013-04-13 13:29:07 <HM2> hrrrm
1921 2013-04-13 13:29:14 <HM2> don't even run an include file mapper on boost
1922 2013-04-13 13:30:00 mercerist has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1923 2013-04-13 13:30:26 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1924 2013-04-13 13:31:14 PartTimeAway is now known as PartTimeLegend
1925 2013-04-13 13:32:23 <paulo_> the centralization it creates is a tradeoff for price stability
1926 2013-04-13 13:33:20 paraipan has joined
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1928 2013-04-13 13:33:33 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1929 2013-04-13 13:33:45 <Graet> if only price followed difficulty and not the other way round :)
1930 2013-04-13 13:34:00 i2pRelay has joined
1931 2013-04-13 13:35:46 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1932 2013-04-13 13:35:48 spooky_ has joined
1933 2013-04-13 13:36:36 hydrogenesis has joined
1934 2013-04-13 13:36:58 spooky_ has quit (Client Quit)
1935 2013-04-13 13:37:06 spooky_ has joined
1936 2013-04-13 13:37:46 normanrichards has joined
1937 2013-04-13 13:37:53 PartTimeLegend has left ("Leaving")
1938 2013-04-13 13:38:16 BenderCoin has joined
1939 2013-04-13 13:39:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s248/sh/c188c52a-3db4-46c1-84d8-1a38d5b93181/0312b5aa06a4b1a4c8442272863e87a1
1940 2013-04-13 13:39:55 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so there, I think I managed to make the base rules for a perfect language
1941 2013-04-13 13:40:17 polrpaul has joined
1942 2013-04-13 13:41:30 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1943 2013-04-13 13:41:50 <Guest13613> Diapolo:Got same errors as you, both on bitcoind and bitcoin-qt with bdb-4.8.30.NC. Error initializing wallet environment. Could it be because of the patch in db.h and --disable-replication?
1944 2013-04-13 13:42:02 i2pRelay has joined
1945 2013-04-13 13:43:01 B0g4r7 has joined
1946 2013-04-13 13:43:33 skinnkavaj has joined
1947 2013-04-13 13:45:01 lodse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1948 2013-04-13 13:45:28 <X-Scale> Diablo-D3: that 'perfect language' made me remember this :) http://perl-begin.org/humour/perl6_perl_6_cover_lg.jpg
1949 2013-04-13 13:46:25 <Diablo-D3> heh
1950 2013-04-13 13:46:28 jaequery has joined
1951 2013-04-13 13:46:33 <Diablo-D3> Im actually pretty limited in that there
1952 2013-04-13 13:47:06 da2ce7 has joined
1953 2013-04-13 13:48:40 <Diablo-D3> rust already fits many of these requirements
1954 2013-04-13 13:49:06 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: why havent you claimed your DMC shares on bitfunder
1955 2013-04-13 13:49:27 <da2ce7> I think that I have.
1956 2013-04-13 13:49:32 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1957 2013-04-13 13:49:34 <Diablo-D3> not according to the interface.
1958 2013-04-13 13:49:43 <Diablo-D3> you have almost 2000 shares and they're still unclaimed
1959 2013-04-13 13:50:04 <da2ce7> Oh.  They only offered me like 750
1960 2013-04-13 13:50:08 i2pRelay has joined
1961 2013-04-13 13:50:26 ciphermonk has joined
1962 2013-04-13 13:50:27 <da2ce7> I thought that I had claimed those ones.
1963 2013-04-13 13:50:42 <redeeman> Diablo-D3, but this is not really such an extendable language, you should think more lisp-like, but better
1964 2013-04-13 13:51:08 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: nm, you have claimed them
1965 2013-04-13 13:51:15 <Diablo-D3> redeeman: I dont want extendable stuff in the language
1966 2013-04-13 13:51:23 <redeeman> but then you are limited
1967 2013-04-13 13:51:26 <Diablo-D3> redeeman: I'd rather have a pluggable compiler
1968 2013-04-13 13:51:43 <Diablo-D3> redeeman: remember, this is compiled not interpreted or VMed
1969 2013-04-13 13:52:04 <redeeman> you can do both
1970 2013-04-13 13:52:08 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1971 2013-04-13 13:52:08 <da2ce7> How is dmc going anyway?
1972 2013-04-13 13:52:23 <Plinker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump
1973 2013-04-13 13:53:27 <Guest13613> Plinker:yes?
1974 2013-04-13 13:53:50 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: share buy back will probably be completed by the end of the year
1975 2013-04-13 13:53:58 malaimo has joined
1976 2013-04-13 13:54:01 <Diablo-D3> redeeman: Im not doing both nor will I ever do both
1977 2013-04-13 13:54:08 <Diablo-D3> redeeman: this is meant to be a systems language
1978 2013-04-13 13:55:39 <Diapolo> Guest13613: sorry, dunno what you mean
1979 2013-04-13 13:56:59 da2ce7 has joined
1980 2013-04-13 13:57:00 <Guest13613> Diapolo:It's me, diki
1981 2013-04-13 13:57:13 <Guest13613> Bitcoind and bitcoin-qt on windows mingw?
1982 2013-04-13 13:57:25 Guest13613 is now known as diki
1983 2013-04-13 13:57:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1984 2013-04-13 13:57:37 <Diapolo> diki: hey, but I'm not sure what error you are talking about
1985 2013-04-13 13:57:39 rosster has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1986 2013-04-13 13:58:08 roya21 has joined
1987 2013-04-13 13:58:08 i2pRelay has joined
1988 2013-04-13 13:58:15 <diki> Diapolo:[03:05:36] <Diapolo> sipa: and the message in step 5 is just "Error initializing wallet database environment %s!"
1989 2013-04-13 13:58:15 roya21 has left ()
1990 2013-04-13 13:58:23 <Diapolo> did you edit db.h in /d/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix/ @ line 113 replace typedef pthread_t db_threadid_t; with typedef u_int32_t db_threadid_t;
1991 2013-04-13 13:58:35 <diki> yes I did, wondering it that isn't the cause
1992 2013-04-13 13:58:52 <Diapolo> diki: that one was not about me getting that error, I was talking with sipa about something different
1993 2013-04-13 13:59:05 <diki> well I am getting that error on a new empty datadir
1994 2013-04-13 13:59:11 hydrogenesis has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1995 2013-04-13 13:59:21 <Diapolo> What is the debug.log telling you?
1996 2013-04-13 13:59:26 <Diapolo> Did you use ../dist/configure --disable-replication --enable-mingw --enable-cxx also?
1997 2013-04-13 13:59:31 <diki> yes
1998 2013-04-13 13:59:35 <diki> exactly those options
1999 2013-04-13 13:59:43 <diki> I saw the thread on bitcointalk with that line
2000 2013-04-13 14:00:10 <Diapolo> ah okay, that's how I built BDB and it works
2001 2013-04-13 14:00:29 <Diapolo> there must be another cause
2002 2013-04-13 14:00:34 Davincij15 has joined
2003 2013-04-13 14:00:34 <diki> I believe it's the threading component of bdb
2004 2013-04-13 14:00:45 <Diapolo> diki: debug.log is showing what?
2005 2013-04-13 14:01:01 <Diapolo> You built BDB, OpenSSL, Boost and Qt, right?
2006 2013-04-13 14:01:05 fishfish is now known as fishfish_
2007 2013-04-13 14:01:41 fishfish_ is now known as fishfish
2008 2013-04-13 14:01:43 <diki> http://pastebin.com/yLdp2MY8
2009 2013-04-13 14:01:44 rosster has joined
2010 2013-04-13 14:01:45 <diki> debug.log
2011 2013-04-13 14:02:04 <diki> and this is db.log http://pastebin.com/4cdaj69F
2012 2013-04-13 14:02:56 <Diapolo> that db.log alone is not right at all
2013 2013-04-13 14:03:30 <Diapolo> db.log is just empty for me when starting my own built client
2014 2013-04-13 14:04:47 <Diapolo> You built it with the same compiler you used for the rest and copied the required headers into your MinGW\include folder?
2015 2013-04-13 14:05:39 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016 2013-04-13 14:05:49 <Diapolo> diki: also my debug.log shows a correct build date instead of ($Format:%cD) in the version string
2017 2013-04-13 14:06:01 dikidera has joined
2018 2013-04-13 14:06:07 <dikidera> Diapolo:sorry about that
2019 2013-04-13 14:06:10 i2pRelay has joined
2020 2013-04-13 14:06:15 <dikidera> my miner crashed and took the whole pc with it
2021 2013-04-13 14:06:31 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: Bye)
2022 2013-04-13 14:06:36 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023 2013-04-13 14:06:38 <sipa> fanquake: now i am
2024 2013-04-13 14:06:43 <HM2> hmmm
2025 2013-04-13 14:06:54 <Diapolo> dikidera: that db.log alone is not right at all / db.log is just empty for me when starting my own built client / You built it with the same compiler you used for the rest and copied the required headers into your MinGW\include folder? / also my debug.log shows a correct build date instead of ($Format:%cD) in the version string
2026 2013-04-13 14:07:20 savantguy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2027 2013-04-13 14:07:22 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2028 2013-04-13 14:07:23 <dikidera> Diapolo:I copied the boost DLLs from the stage folder
2029 2013-04-13 14:07:33 <dikidera> and the headers from the include folder
2030 2013-04-13 14:08:44 ciphermonk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2031 2013-04-13 14:09:39 da2ce7 is now known as 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|da2ce7
2032 2013-04-13 14:09:40 <Diapolo> dikidera: Boost DLLs?
2033 2013-04-13 14:09:52 <dikidera> err dlls and .a(libraries)
2034 2013-04-13 14:09:55 gonffen has joined
2035 2013-04-13 14:10:02 <Diapolo> MinGW is using just .a afaik.
2036 2013-04-13 14:10:16 grau has joined
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2038 2013-04-13 14:10:53 gonffen has joined
2039 2013-04-13 14:11:11 <Diapolo> You have these Boost libs: libboost_filesystem-mgw47-mt-s-1_50.a and 4 others right?
2040 2013-04-13 14:11:58 <dikidera> yeah
2041 2013-04-13 14:12:12 <dikidera> chrono,filesystem,system and another one
2042 2013-04-13 14:12:25 <HM2> shit
2043 2013-04-13 14:12:29 <dikidera> program_options and thread
2044 2013-04-13 14:12:39 <Diapolo> right
2045 2013-04-13 14:13:00 <Diapolo> but you seem to be having a BDB related issue, BDB doesn't use Boost right?
2046 2013-04-13 14:13:05 ColinT has joined
2047 2013-04-13 14:13:35 <Diapolo> You compiled BDB it in the MinGW shell?
2048 2013-04-13 14:13:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2049 2013-04-13 14:13:44 <sipa> BDB doesn't use Boost, afaik, no
2050 2013-04-13 14:13:57 <sipa> BDB is C, Boost is C++, so that would be very hard :)
2051 2013-04-13 14:14:04 <Diapolo> :-D
2052 2013-04-13 14:14:13 i2pRelay has joined
2053 2013-04-13 14:14:14 <dikidera> what should I be getting instead of ($Format:%cD)?
2054 2013-04-13 14:14:30 cultavix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2055 2013-04-13 14:14:31 <Diapolo> something like (Apr 13 2013, 01:17:38)
2056 2013-04-13 14:14:49 <sipa> where do you get that?
2057 2013-04-13 14:14:57 <sipa> the ($Format:%cD) ?
2058 2013-04-13 14:15:13 <Diapolo> he has it in his debug.log
2059 2013-04-13 14:15:37 <sipa> that likely means he used the code in git directly (but without git being present), instead of exporting it
2060 2013-04-13 14:15:40 <sipa> not an issue
2061 2013-04-13 14:16:04 <dikidera> I do not use git, I just use the ZIP button on the git website
2062 2013-04-13 14:16:08 <Diapolo> sipa: can you take a look at his db.log http://pastebin.com/4cdaj69F looks weird
2063 2013-04-13 14:16:10 <dikidera> and extract the contents
2064 2013-04-13 14:16:26 guy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2065 2013-04-13 14:16:35 <sipa> dikidera: oh! that should work; i'll look at it, but it's unrelated to the BDB problem
2066 2013-04-13 14:17:02 <sipa> yes that looks weird, but i don't have experience with building BDB or what can go wrong with that
2067 2013-04-13 14:17:17 <dikidera> Well me and Diapolo had to manually patch bdb to compile
2068 2013-04-13 14:17:19 guy_ has joined
2069 2013-04-13 14:17:43 <dikidera> we had to change a typedef in db.h from pthread_t to u_uint32_t
2070 2013-04-13 14:18:06 <dikidera> otherwise it would fail miserably(the compilation process)
2071 2013-04-13 14:18:21 <Diapolo> sipa: but for me BDB was never causing such problems
2072 2013-04-13 14:18:22 <sipa> but it's strange that it works for Diapolo and not for you
2073 2013-04-13 14:18:24 <dikidera> but Diapolo's seems to work
2074 2013-04-13 14:18:25 <Diapolo> right
2075 2013-04-13 14:18:42 <dikidera> Diapolo:which gcc/g++ did you compile bdb with?
2076 2013-04-13 14:18:47 <sipa> dikidera: have you tried being with the bdb library that Diapolo compiled?
2077 2013-04-13 14:18:50 <dikidera> I use GCC 4.7.2
2078 2013-04-13 14:18:52 <sipa> *building
2079 2013-04-13 14:19:03 <Diapolo> gcc version 4.7.2 (GCC)
2080 2013-04-13 14:19:04 <dikidera> I used bdb-4.8.3.NC
2081 2013-04-13 14:19:07 shurnormal has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2082 2013-04-13 14:19:11 <dikidera> Diapolo:then we have the same mingw
2083 2013-04-13 14:19:31 shurnormal has joined
2084 2013-04-13 14:19:40 <dikidera> *db-4.8.30.NC
2085 2013-04-13 14:19:52 <dikidera> The exact version specified in the build-msw.txt
2086 2013-04-13 14:20:01 <Diapolo> dikidera I can give you my compiled libs
2087 2013-04-13 14:20:18 <dikidera> That would really help :)
2088 2013-04-13 14:20:21 <Diapolo> any free and working filesharing service which doesn require registration?
2089 2013-04-13 14:20:28 <dikidera> mega.co.nz
2090 2013-04-13 14:20:49 <HM2> is there one like imgur that'll take a 2MB jpeg?
2091 2013-04-13 14:20:54 <HM2> i have a nice graph to show you guys
2092 2013-04-13 14:21:07 <HM2> imgur craps out
2093 2013-04-13 14:21:17 <Diapolo> just a sec
2094 2013-04-13 14:21:42 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2095 2013-04-13 14:21:47 <dikidera> HM2:there is always imageshack and picoodle, but I have not used those in quite a while so I do not know if they work or not
2096 2013-04-13 14:22:14 i2pRelay has joined
2097 2013-04-13 14:22:19 <HM2> oh hold on
2098 2013-04-13 14:22:19 <Diapolo> BDB 4.8.30.NC.7z
2099 2013-04-13 14:22:19 <Diapolo> https://mega.co.nz/#!KJNknZIK!TYhhfSvXuyeh3mr-pOaGBnrvq1BGEEm-_mXxQuec_co
2100 2013-04-13 14:22:27 <dikidera> In fact I have this very vague feeling that I know the owner of imgur, as I remember him posting his service on a forum
2101 2013-04-13 14:22:31 <HM2> i may have saved a png with a .jpg extension
2102 2013-04-13 14:22:31 <Diapolo> dikidera: can you try to DL it
2103 2013-04-13 14:24:06 <HM2> wtf
2104 2013-04-13 14:24:09 <dikidera> downloaded
2105 2013-04-13 14:24:12 <HM2> imgur won't take a 2MB png
2106 2013-04-13 14:24:14 <HM2> give me a break
2107 2013-04-13 14:24:15 <dikidera> re-conpiling
2108 2013-04-13 14:24:15 <Diapolo> dikidera: perhaps you can also make a diff of the files, to see if they are different or the same
2109 2013-04-13 14:24:34 <Diapolo> HM2: what about tinypic
2110 2013-04-13 14:25:01 <dikidera> Diapolo:well the windows copy function said that that mine are the same size like yours, but slightly larger in the sense of bytes or kilobytes(very small differences apparently)
2111 2013-04-13 14:25:39 <dikidera> like very small difference
2112 2013-04-13 14:25:46 oiram has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2113 2013-04-13 14:25:56 <Diapolo> let's see what happens with them in use
2114 2013-04-13 14:26:14 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2115 2013-04-13 14:26:48 <HM2> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1z73jbo&s=6
2116 2013-04-13 14:26:51 <HM2> behold!
2117 2013-04-13 14:26:58 <HM2> the bitcoin source tree, mapping includes
2118 2013-04-13 14:27:07 oiram has joined
2119 2013-04-13 14:27:14 cultavix has joined
2120 2013-04-13 14:27:18 <dikidera> Diapolo:can you also zip me your boost libs, in case they also might be at fault?
2121 2013-04-13 14:27:25 <HM2> aaaand it's been shrunk
2122 2013-04-13 14:27:28 <HM2> grrr
2123 2013-04-13 14:28:11 <Diapolo> dikidera: sure
2124 2013-04-13 14:28:15 _pr has joined
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2126 2013-04-13 14:28:16 _pr has joined
2127 2013-04-13 14:28:38 mercerist has joined
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2129 2013-04-13 14:29:02 <X-Scale> HM2: how did you generate that dependency graph ?
2130 2013-04-13 14:29:23 fishfish has quit (Quit: Bye!)
2131 2013-04-13 14:29:24 shurnormal has joined
2132 2013-04-13 14:29:32 <HM2> Using a programmed called Understand, from Scitools
2133 2013-04-13 14:29:39 <sipa> help!
2134 2013-04-13 14:29:41 fishfish has joined
2135 2013-04-13 14:29:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2136 2013-04-13 14:29:46 <HM2> if the image hosters weren't so crappy i'd post the full thing
2137 2013-04-13 14:30:16 i2pRelay has joined
2138 2013-04-13 14:30:20 banghouse has joined
2139 2013-04-13 14:30:21 <dikidera> Diapolo:lol, spot on
2140 2013-04-13 14:30:21 <Diapolo> Boost 1.50.7z
2141 2013-04-13 14:30:22 <Diapolo> https://mega.co.nz/#!GYUgTSyC!fwUc7251CwmRVAUtG8pvKVZet69cC9z0noIUCzzQdhA
2142 2013-04-13 14:30:23 <dikidera> it works man
2143 2013-04-13 14:30:23 banghouse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2144 2013-04-13 14:30:33 <Diapolo> Seems I ROCK ^^.
2145 2013-04-13 14:30:34 <dikidera> your bdb libs work
2146 2013-04-13 14:30:49 <dikidera> So you did you change anything in the source?
2147 2013-04-13 14:30:52 <Diapolo> strange ... at least
2148 2013-04-13 14:31:11 <X-Scale> HM2: Mega
2149 2013-04-13 14:31:15 <dikidera> I patched db.h like you, disabled replication and compiled
2150 2013-04-13 14:31:17 <Diapolo> just that typedef u_int32_t db_threadid_t;
2151 2013-04-13 14:31:49 * HM2 sighs
2152 2013-04-13 14:32:05 <Diapolo> perhaps some environment variable screws your build? did you use the MinGW shell for compilation?
2153 2013-04-13 14:32:11 <dikidera> yep
2154 2013-04-13 14:32:26 <HM2> https://mega.co.nz/#!ykoXzQjK!Jk2ANSDQ9WgoFXIfnGwdS324oIM2NSsxUGHhFJFlEJM
2155 2013-04-13 14:32:29 <HM2> there you go
2156 2013-04-13 14:32:35 savantguy has joined
2157 2013-04-13 14:32:56 <X-Scale> thx
2158 2013-04-13 14:33:13 <Diapolo> dikidera: perhaps re-download BDB
2159 2013-04-13 14:33:25 <Diapolo> dikidera: db-4.8.30.NC.tar.gz was it?
2160 2013-04-13 14:33:36 <dikidera> I used the zip
2161 2013-04-13 14:33:50 <Diapolo> well I used that one, perhaps they differ?
2162 2013-04-13 14:34:01 <dikidera> my libdb_cxx.a file is 76 bytes bigger than yours
2163 2013-04-13 14:34:43 <HM2> I should probably graph without src/test and src/qt
2164 2013-04-13 14:34:53 <Diapolo> HM2: that image is CRAZY ^^
2165 2013-04-13 14:35:15 Faradayy has quit ()
2166 2013-04-13 14:35:16 <Diapolo> dikidera: seems the cause IMHO
2167 2013-04-13 14:36:11 ringhals has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2168 2013-04-13 14:36:43 harkon has joined
2169 2013-04-13 14:37:46 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2170 2013-04-13 14:38:15 <dikidera> I compared your lib to mine with a more sophisticated program, while mine is 76 bytes bigger, there are over 3000 differences
2171 2013-04-13 14:38:18 i2pRelay has joined
2172 2013-04-13 14:38:31 normanrichards has quit ()
2173 2013-04-13 14:38:34 valparaiso has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2174 2013-04-13 14:38:44 <HM2> https://mega.co.nz/#!ysZSBLgI!WnxKvhiX_VcpX4NVoD4BcAb1XYEGkMYuefbJzvnzjyM
2175 2013-04-13 14:38:45 GStone has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2176 2013-04-13 14:38:51 <HM2> here's the codebase without src/test and src/qt
2177 2013-04-13 14:39:49 gp5st has joined
2178 2013-04-13 14:39:53 gfinn has joined
2179 2013-04-13 14:40:21 valparaiso has joined
2180 2013-04-13 14:40:29 <Diapolo> dikidera: try the .tar.gz - I used 7-Zip for extracting it
2181 2013-04-13 14:40:41 <Diapolo> dikidera: I'm out for now - Bundesliga is calling ^^
2182 2013-04-13 14:40:57 harkon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2183 2013-04-13 14:41:13 m0gliEz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2184 2013-04-13 14:41:19 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2185 2013-04-13 14:41:20 <dikidera> ok
2186 2013-04-13 14:41:30 bitnumus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2187 2013-04-13 14:41:31 <Diapolo> cya
2188 2013-04-13 14:41:32 TD has joined
2189 2013-04-13 14:41:33 <gp5st> is there a paper somewhere on the math behind the generation of keys from an arbitrary value? I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to generate a key based upon 2 secrets, multiplied together (only knowing 1 secret at a time)
2190 2013-04-13 14:42:03 m0gliEz has joined
2191 2013-04-13 14:42:04 Diapolo has left ()
2192 2013-04-13 14:42:41 sanchaz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2193 2013-04-13 14:43:13 * HM2 tries the 'strict' analyser
2194 2013-04-13 14:43:18 nus- has joined
2195 2013-04-13 14:43:43 bitnumus has joined
2196 2013-04-13 14:43:51 jciri has joined
2197 2013-04-13 14:44:33 nus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2198 2013-04-13 14:44:48 ProfNeurus has joined
2199 2013-04-13 14:45:03 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2201 2013-04-13 14:45:48 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2202 2013-04-13 14:46:05 <dikidera> With Diapolo's bdb libs, bitcoin and bitcoin-qt now compile just fine. I have a working native compile of Bitcoind and Bitcoin-Qt
2203 2013-04-13 14:46:20 i2pRelay has joined
2204 2013-04-13 14:47:37 shurnormal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2205 2013-04-13 14:49:29 <TD> gp5st: have you seen shamirs secret sharing?
2206 2013-04-13 14:49:47 shurnormal has joined
2207 2013-04-13 14:50:09 GMP has joined
2208 2013-04-13 14:50:48 sanchaz has joined
2209 2013-04-13 14:51:57 rdymac has joined
2210 2013-04-13 14:52:53 <HM2> aha
2211 2013-04-13 14:52:58 <HM2> strict mode produces cleaner graphs
2212 2013-04-13 14:53:38 asdfasdvxcbvvxcb has joined
2213 2013-04-13 14:53:47 <gp5st> TD: yes, but it doesn't quite work in this case because I need the output to be an address to send bitcoins to
2214 2013-04-13 14:53:49 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2215 2013-04-13 14:53:49 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2216 2013-04-13 14:53:50 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2217 2013-04-13 14:53:50 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2218 2013-04-13 14:53:50 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2219 2013-04-13 14:53:51 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2220 2013-04-13 14:53:51 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2221 2013-04-13 14:53:51 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2222 2013-04-13 14:53:52 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2223 2013-04-13 14:53:52 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2224 2013-04-13 14:53:52 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2225 2013-04-13 14:53:53 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2226 2013-04-13 14:53:53 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2227 2013-04-13 14:53:54 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2228 2013-04-13 14:53:59 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> soooo no spam kick?
2229 2013-04-13 14:54:01 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> guys
2230 2013-04-13 14:54:03 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> come oooon
2231 2013-04-13 14:54:04 <gp5st> can someone with any power kick this guy?
2232 2013-04-13 14:54:10 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> I was trying you guys
2233 2013-04-13 14:54:12 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> and turns out
2234 2013-04-13 14:54:22 i2pRelay has joined
2235 2013-04-13 14:54:24 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> you are not as good as some other channels I have been into
2236 2013-04-13 14:54:30 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> come on kick me out
2237 2013-04-13 14:54:31 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2238 2013-04-13 14:54:31 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2239 2013-04-13 14:54:31 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2240 2013-04-13 14:54:32 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2241 2013-04-13 14:54:32 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2242 2013-04-13 14:54:32 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2243 2013-04-13 14:54:33 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2244 2013-04-13 14:54:33 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2245 2013-04-13 14:54:34 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2246 2013-04-13 14:54:34 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2247 2013-04-13 14:54:34 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2248 2013-04-13 14:54:35 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2249 2013-04-13 14:54:35 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> http://listofreebitcoinwebsites.weebly.com/
2250 2013-04-13 14:54:41 <TD> this channel has never had anywhere near enough ops
2251 2013-04-13 14:54:42 BlackPrapor has joined
2252 2013-04-13 14:54:43 <TD> unfortunately
2253 2013-04-13 14:54:50 WASD has joined
2254 2013-04-13 14:54:57 <TD> so, your attempt at trolling us will just get in the way of useful conversation
2255 2013-04-13 14:54:57 <asdfasdvxcbvvxcb> Let me kick myself out
2256 2013-04-13 14:55:00 <TD> thanks
2257 2013-04-13 14:55:11 wallet42 has joined
2258 2013-04-13 14:55:30 <TD> gp5st: so you want two secrets, combined, to create one ecdsa key? you could hash the first secret, use it as a private key, then multiply it by the second secret
2259 2013-04-13 14:55:33 <TD> (i think)
2260 2013-04-13 14:56:01 guruvan has joined
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2262 2013-04-13 14:56:45 GMP has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2263 2013-04-13 14:57:20 <gp5st> TD: I also was trying to avoid either party having the full private key. What's the processes for going from secret to pub/priv pair?
2264 2013-04-13 14:57:53 copumpkin has joined
2265 2013-04-13 14:58:14 <TD> you can have the output be a CHECKMULTISIG script. if you need "address form" you could use P2SH
2266 2013-04-13 14:58:29 <gp5st> hmm
2267 2013-04-13 14:58:53 <TD> are you familar with those?
2268 2013-04-13 14:59:12 <gp5st> i know about CHECKMULTISIG, reading up on P2SH
2269 2013-04-13 14:59:20 asdfasdvxcbvvxcb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2270 2013-04-13 14:59:41 Belxjander has joined
2271 2013-04-13 14:59:44 ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2272 2013-04-13 14:59:57 <paulo_> when a client receives a new block, it checks if the transactions are valid, right?
2273 2013-04-13 15:00:02 grau has joined
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2275 2013-04-13 15:00:09 nus has joined
2276 2013-04-13 15:00:10 Davincij has joined
2277 2013-04-13 15:00:28 <lianj> paulo_: yes
2278 2013-04-13 15:00:46 <paulo_> in this check, does it go through the entire block chain to check if the addresses actually have balance?
2279 2013-04-13 15:01:16 Davincij15 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2280 2013-04-13 15:01:47 <HM2> paulo_: no
2281 2013-04-13 15:01:52 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2282 2013-04-13 15:01:56 kalleboo_ has joined
2283 2013-04-13 15:02:09 nus- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2284 2013-04-13 15:02:11 <paulo_> how does it determine if the transactions are valid then?
2285 2013-04-13 15:02:24 i2pRelay has joined
2286 2013-04-13 15:02:28 digitalmagus has joined
2287 2013-04-13 15:02:30 <gp5st> TD: thanks:)
2288 2013-04-13 15:02:59 <HM2> paulo_: it depends on the client.
2289 2013-04-13 15:03:07 ColinT has joined
2290 2013-04-13 15:03:13 <paulo_> how does the main client do it?
2291 2013-04-13 15:03:13 jurov has quit (Quit: User accidentally the)
2292 2013-04-13 15:03:14 <TD> gp5st: it's basically a way to pack any arbitrary output script into an address
2293 2013-04-13 15:03:31 <HM2> paulo_: as far as my understanding goes the signatures are all checked, then the inputs to the transactions are verified against the unspent transaction index
2294 2013-04-13 15:03:33 <TD> gp5st: it also lets you hide the output script behind a hash until the output is claimed
2295 2013-04-13 15:03:52 <TD> gp5st: i don't think it has much usage, to be honest. there was a time when it seemed like a bigger deal than it really is, imho but it might be what you want
2296 2013-04-13 15:04:45 oiram has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2297 2013-04-13 15:05:20 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2298 2013-04-13 15:05:48 symbol has joined
2299 2013-04-13 15:05:52 <symbol> Hey Guys! I just want to let you know that my app SlushStats hit the AppStore! It shows you the mining statistic of you slush mining account and much more information like the mtgox bid/ask/high value. Please support me and buy this app so that i can release the version which supports pushnotifications for different events! : https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/slushstats/id628524471?mt=8
2300 2013-04-13 15:06:58 setkeh has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0)
2301 2013-04-13 15:07:10 setkeh has joined
2302 2013-04-13 15:07:11 <Graet> #bitcoin-mining might be more interested than -dev, but goos on you :)
2303 2013-04-13 15:07:15 da2ce7 has joined
2304 2013-04-13 15:07:26 <Graet> good*
2305 2013-04-13 15:07:32 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2306 2013-04-13 15:08:10 varys has joined
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2308 2013-04-13 15:09:22 Someguy123 has joined
2309 2013-04-13 15:09:24 <dikidera> goos on you symbol xD
2310 2013-04-13 15:09:32 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2311 2013-04-13 15:09:41 <sipa> HM2: the other way around: you need the inputs from the UTXO set before you can do signature checking
2312 2013-04-13 15:09:56 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2313 2013-04-13 15:10:28 i2pRelay has joined
2314 2013-04-13 15:10:35 <HM2> hmm
2315 2013-04-13 15:10:44 <symbol> thanks for that tip dikidera :)
2316 2013-04-13 15:10:52 <HM2> you do?
2317 2013-04-13 15:10:58 setkeh has quit (Client Quit)
2318 2013-04-13 15:11:07 daveluke has joined
2319 2013-04-13 15:11:16 <sipa> HM2: the outputs contain the script that has to be satisfied
2320 2013-04-13 15:11:34 <sipa> HM2: which contain the OP_CHECKSIG instruction
2321 2013-04-13 15:11:54 <sipa> without the UTXO, you wouldn't even know there was a signature to be checked
2322 2013-04-13 15:12:40 varys has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2323 2013-04-13 15:13:00 <HM2> good point
2324 2013-04-13 15:13:14 <HM2> one more reason to move the script to the redeemer?
2325 2013-04-13 15:13:33 <sipa> it means smaller UTXO sets yes, for complex scripts
2326 2013-04-13 15:13:39 <dikidera> Alright, yes.
2327 2013-04-13 15:13:47 <dikidera> I fixed my bdb problem
2328 2013-04-13 15:13:53 <sipa> what was it?
2329 2013-04-13 15:14:05 <dikidera> now I really have a native mingw windows build of bitcoind and bitcoin-qt
2330 2013-04-13 15:14:06 <HM2> I'm getting the hang of this static analyser
2331 2013-04-13 15:14:19 <HM2> sipa: any codebase dependency graphs that might be useful ?
2332 2013-04-13 15:14:31 grau has joined
2333 2013-04-13 15:14:32 <dikidera> sipa:I applied a patch to a header file, when previous files had already used it's data.
2334 2013-04-13 15:14:38 <dikidera> that led to the problem
2335 2013-04-13 15:14:39 <sipa> dikidera: ah!
2336 2013-04-13 15:14:42 m0gliEz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2337 2013-04-13 15:14:45 <gp5st> TD: oh my i feel like there was a lot of drama over this last year
2338 2013-04-13 15:15:00 <sipa> HM2: there are some refactorings planned, which would reduce the dependencies a lot
2339 2013-04-13 15:15:10 WASD has left ()
2340 2013-04-13 15:15:19 m0gliEz has joined
2341 2013-04-13 15:15:30 <sipa> well, planned... there's a pull request and people who like it :)
2342 2013-04-13 15:16:08 <HM2> lol
2343 2013-04-13 15:16:16 <TD> gp5st: bitcoin IS drama
2344 2013-04-13 15:16:34 <HM2> i was looking at these monsterous graphs and didn't notice this program has some better options
2345 2013-04-13 15:16:42 frac has joined
2346 2013-04-13 15:17:01 <sipa> TD: from time to time, it's a comedy :)
2347 2013-04-13 15:17:04 <frac> hello, i've ran into this problem for the second time, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2402
2348 2013-04-13 15:17:11 pablog has joined
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2350 2013-04-13 15:17:11 pablog has joined
2351 2013-04-13 15:17:21 <gp5st> TD: so was bip16 used then? I'm still reading over a lot of stuff:-\
2352 2013-04-13 15:17:23 <frac> this is the second time my blockchain has become corrupt and i get that error after trying to rebuild the database
2353 2013-04-13 15:17:38 <TD> sipa: a tragi-comedy :)
2354 2013-04-13 15:17:41 <frac> i totally reinstalled my entire os last time to make sure it wasnt an os level instability
2355 2013-04-13 15:17:51 <TD> gp5st: it is deployed and works
2356 2013-04-13 15:17:51 <frac> and it happened again, so it has to be a bug
2357 2013-04-13 15:17:58 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2358 2013-04-13 15:18:00 <TD> gp5st: you can make P2SH transactions today.
2359 2013-04-13 15:18:01 <sipa> frac: it looks like a bug indeed
2360 2013-04-13 15:18:09 <dikidera> sipa:I noticed that bitcoin-qt alerts me that I am using a pre-release version.
2361 2013-04-13 15:18:10 <frac> ya its this weird, "QMetaMethod::invoke: Unable to handle unregistered datatype 'bool*'"
2362 2013-04-13 15:18:14 <dikidera> Which version is NOT a pre-release?
2363 2013-04-13 15:18:21 <frac> luckily i keep an older copy of the blockchain so i copy that over and reload
2364 2013-04-13 15:18:29 <sipa> dikidera: releases
2365 2013-04-13 15:18:30 i2pRelay has joined
2366 2013-04-13 15:18:32 <frac> if you need any more info im glad to help
2367 2013-04-13 15:18:50 <HM2> sipa: mostly there seems to be too much in main.cpp
2368 2013-04-13 15:18:52 <HM2> and main.h
2369 2013-04-13 15:18:56 <sipa> HM2: absolutely
2370 2013-04-13 15:19:20 ColinT has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2371 2013-04-13 15:19:23 <sipa> dikidera: the warning was introduced mostly when we did the 0.7->0.8 transition, so if there was a significant bug, and many miners deployed it, we wouldn't get a fork
2372 2013-04-13 15:19:27 <sipa> ... though we did
2373 2013-04-13 15:19:34 <sipa> after the warning was removed
2374 2013-04-13 15:19:39 ColinT has joined
2375 2013-04-13 15:19:51 <sipa> s/bug/change/
2376 2013-04-13 15:20:45 <sipa> HM2: the problem is that main contains both very low-level things (like transaction/block datastructures), and very high-level things (like block chain maintainance and verification)
2377 2013-04-13 15:20:56 setkeh has joined
2378 2013-04-13 15:21:00 <sipa> HM2: and that results in pretty much everything in between also needing to be in the same file
2379 2013-04-13 15:22:53 <HM2> sipa: http://i.imgur.com/uIZzLG6.png
2380 2013-04-13 15:22:59 <HM2> this is everything that includes main.h
2381 2013-04-13 15:23:03 <HM2> it's in the middle
2382 2013-04-13 15:23:29 <frac> i dont know if this helps at all but that bug happened without any user intercation, meaning i fell asleep last night with bitcoin on, and i woke up with it crashed with that message, hope that helps track it down a bit
2383 2013-04-13 15:24:10 <dikidera> sipa:It works now, but build date is displayed as "$Format:%cD"
2384 2013-04-13 15:24:15 jurov has joined
2385 2013-04-13 15:24:33 <sipa> dikidera: yes, normally when "exporting" source code out of git, that string should be replaced by the actual version
2386 2013-04-13 15:24:40 <sipa> dikidera: for some reason, that didn't happen for you
2387 2013-04-13 15:24:45 brendyn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2388 2013-04-13 15:24:48 <sipa> nothing to worry about, it's just aestestics
2389 2013-04-13 15:24:52 bibbybob has joined
2390 2013-04-13 15:24:56 <sipa> (however you write that word)
2391 2013-04-13 15:25:29 <sipa> dikidera: would you mind writing out the steps you needed to take to build?
2392 2013-04-13 15:26:00 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2393 2013-04-13 15:26:16 K1773R is now known as OFF!~K1773Rfre@unaffiliated/k1773r|K1773R
2394 2013-04-13 15:26:16 <dikidera> well for me, since I used GCC 4.7.2, and wanted to use bitcoin-qt, I had to compile Qt from source.
2395 2013-04-13 15:26:29 <dikidera> and that alone is a few hours
2396 2013-04-13 15:26:32 i2pRelay has joined
2397 2013-04-13 15:27:04 <sipa> HM2: yeah, somewhat expected... i hope we can improve that soon
2398 2013-04-13 15:27:05 <HM2> rpcrawtransaction.cpp including main.h seems like an obvious wtf
2399 2013-04-13 15:27:15 brendyn has joined
2400 2013-04-13 15:27:21 frac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2401 2013-04-13 15:27:26 <HM2> it's a shame i can't get a more generational graph with stuff in columns, hmm
2402 2013-04-13 15:27:45 <sipa> well, it definitely expected that it depends on the code that defines the transaction type!
2403 2013-04-13 15:27:54 <sipa> and it needs to be able to push things to the mempool
2404 2013-04-13 15:29:01 <dikidera> Actually, because I wanted to know if it will build, I have not compiled miniupnpc yet
2405 2013-04-13 15:29:16 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2406 2013-04-13 15:29:44 <HM2> sipa: right, "transaction.hpp/cpp" is the key i think
2407 2013-04-13 15:29:52 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2408 2013-04-13 15:30:01 <HM2> that file is the obvious thing missing from the codebase
2409 2013-04-13 15:30:12 Scrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2410 2013-04-13 15:30:23 <sipa> HM2: the plan now is to split main into core (core datastructure definitions) and main (block/transaction validation stuff)
2411 2013-04-13 15:30:55 <sipa> which would allow all intermediate cruft to be moved to separate files easily
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2415 2013-04-13 15:32:41 t7 has joined
2416 2013-04-13 15:32:41 <HM2> hmm indeed
2417 2013-04-13 15:32:49 twmz has joined
2418 2013-04-13 15:32:51 <HM2> db.cpp's tree is not bad
2419 2013-04-13 15:32:52 <sipa> doesn't mean going as far as "every class in its own file"
2420 2013-04-13 15:33:01 <sipa> db.cpp will go away :p
2421 2013-04-13 15:33:09 <HM2> typical
2422 2013-04-13 15:33:15 <sipa> it's just bdb stuff
2423 2013-04-13 15:33:21 <sipa> ah, and addrdb...
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2429 2013-04-13 15:34:38 <HM2> bitcoinrpc.cpp looks a bit tangly
2430 2013-04-13 15:34:51 <HM2> not too bad though
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2432 2013-04-13 15:35:55 brendyn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
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2436 2013-04-13 15:36:40 <HM2> main.h is probably misnamed, i mean main.cpp doesn't include it directly
2437 2013-04-13 15:36:46 guy_ has quit (Changing host)
2438 2013-04-13 15:36:46 guy_ has joined
2439 2013-04-13 15:36:51 <HM2> it's included via txdb.h
2440 2013-04-13 15:36:58 <HM2> and wallet.h
2441 2013-04-13 15:36:58 zebedee_ has joined
2442 2013-04-13 15:37:11 <HM2> and db.h :|
2443 2013-04-13 15:38:13 <sipa> as i said: main contains low- and high-level stuff
2444 2013-04-13 15:38:37 <sipa> that means inevitably that anything depending on low-level things, gets to depend on all high-level things
2445 2013-04-13 15:38:55 <sipa> that's very bad design, and it grew historically, but i hope it'll be changed soon
2446 2013-04-13 15:39:47 jurov has joined
2447 2013-04-13 15:39:48 <X-Scale> So...there is no detailed text specification of the whole Bitcoin protocol other than the source itself ?
2448 2013-04-13 15:40:00 grau has joined
2449 2013-04-13 15:40:03 <HM2> http://i.imgur.com/O4X7vpJ.png
2450 2013-04-13 15:40:06 <HM2> all the classes in main.h
2451 2013-04-13 15:40:07 mE\Ta has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2452 2013-04-13 15:40:31 <sipa> X-Scale: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification describes the protocol's data structures
2453 2013-04-13 15:40:39 <HM2> 33 class definitions if i'm counting right
2454 2013-04-13 15:41:13 <sipa> X-Scale: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules may be a bit outdated but is more descriptive
2455 2013-04-13 15:41:46 mE\Ta has joined
2456 2013-04-13 15:42:01 <TD> X-Scale: there are such descriptions. the question is, are they accurate and precise enough to make a fully compatible implementation that isn't vulnerable to being split out of the consensus
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2458 2013-04-13 15:42:29 <HM2> oh well
2459 2013-04-13 15:42:31 <sipa> it would need to contain very subtle things
2460 2013-04-13 15:42:36 i2pRelay has joined
2461 2013-04-13 15:42:48 <sipa> including openssl's non-standard 'hybrid' public key encoding
2462 2013-04-13 15:43:09 <HM2> let's rewrite from scratch in turbopascal
2463 2013-04-13 15:43:14 <ashod> Hi Everyone, I've been working on integrating Skype with Bitcoins to make life a bit easier for all... If anyone is interested please add the skype address BitcoinIM to your skype list and type #about in the chat window... you can send Bitcoins to anyone in your skype list ( regardless if they have bitcoinIm or bitcoin address ) - etc
2464 2013-04-13 15:43:18 xenesis has joined
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2466 2013-04-13 15:43:53 <HM2> this static analyser needs a built in text editor
2467 2013-04-13 15:43:54 <sipa> or the fact that size limits and hashes are always computed on standard re-encoding of datastructures and not on what you actually receive from the network
2468 2013-04-13 15:44:00 <HM2> it's pretty awesome to be able to see code this way
2469 2013-04-13 15:45:07 btcven has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2470 2013-04-13 15:45:34 overdub has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2472 2013-04-13 15:46:08 <CodeShar_> there should be a set of standard algorithms and well-defined behaviors so that any compliant implementation produces the same outputs given the same input
2473 2013-04-13 15:47:14 jurov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2474 2013-04-13 15:47:42 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2475 2013-04-13 15:47:49 * HM2 gives CodeShar_ back his 'k'
2476 2013-04-13 15:47:56 <CodeShar_> :)
2477 2013-04-13 15:48:08 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2478 2013-04-13 15:48:19 <dikidera> ashod:and then the next skype virus wipes your wallet
2479 2013-04-13 15:48:26 meLon has joined
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2482 2013-04-13 15:50:14 <X-Scale> I see. I guess it all boils down to Satoshi's words: "I'm better with code than with words though." -> http://marc.info/?l=cryptography&m=122670177030865
2483 2013-04-13 15:50:28 JohnSelf has joined
2484 2013-04-13 15:50:33 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2485 2013-04-13 15:50:34 <JohnSelf> Hi everyone.
2486 2013-04-13 15:50:39 i2pRelay has joined
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2491 2013-04-13 15:52:08 CodeShar_ is now known as CodeShark
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2493 2013-04-13 15:53:02 Plinker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2494 2013-04-13 15:53:05 <ashod> i've connected the skype api directly to bitcoind , - im using skype as a front end.. -
2495 2013-04-13 15:53:28 metabyte has joined
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2499 2013-04-13 15:54:39 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2500 2013-04-13 15:55:15 Plinker has joined
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2503 2013-04-13 15:55:51 <HM2> ashod: lol, to what end?
2504 2013-04-13 15:56:01 <CodeShark> Thanks for the k, HM2 :)
2505 2013-04-13 15:56:13 <HM2> It's a special k
2506 2013-04-13 15:57:13 Odyessus has joined
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2509 2013-04-13 15:58:10 <ashod> @hm2, you can send bitcoins to anyone on your skype list, regardless if they have a bitcoin address or not
2510 2013-04-13 15:58:31 <CodeShark> how do they redeem it?
2511 2013-04-13 15:58:41 i2pRelay has joined
2512 2013-04-13 15:58:51 <ashod> @codeshark have you got skype ?
2513 2013-04-13 15:59:01 <CodeShark> yer
2514 2013-04-13 15:59:17 <CodeShark> for better or worse :p
2515 2013-04-13 15:59:37 <sipa> ashod: so you send me some coins through skype - what do i see?
2516 2013-04-13 15:59:38 Plinker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2517 2013-04-13 16:03:33 xenesis has joined
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2520 2013-04-13 16:05:54 <ashod> I dont send them to you directly
2521 2013-04-13 16:06:12 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2522 2013-04-13 16:06:22 <ashod> I right click on BitcoinIM which is the service contact, select your name, it asks me how much, and it sends it to you for me -
2523 2013-04-13 16:06:44 i2pRelay has joined
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2525 2013-04-13 16:07:16 freeroute has joined
2526 2013-04-13 16:08:09 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2527 2013-04-13 16:08:24 gp5st has left ()
2528 2013-04-13 16:08:36 <ashod> doing maiden test now - ..
2529 2013-04-13 16:09:48 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2530 2013-04-13 16:09:48 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
2531 2013-04-13 16:10:14 grapevine has joined
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2533 2013-04-13 16:10:37 <ashod> am willing to give away 0.0001000 bitcoins for anyone wanting to help test this -
2534 2013-04-13 16:11:56 <freeroute> ashod: what kind of test is this?
2535 2013-04-13 16:12:10 <freeroute> I have different associations with the term 'maiden test' :p
2536 2013-04-13 16:12:16 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2537 2013-04-13 16:12:25 D34TH has joined
2538 2013-04-13 16:12:28 <ashod> it's bitcoin over Skype - no software download needed, Ive integrated the skype API, and bitcoind
2539 2013-04-13 16:12:56 xenesis has joined
2540 2013-04-13 16:13:05 <freeroute> wow nice, that seems like a cool idea
2541 2013-04-13 16:13:17 <freeroute> what do I have to do? I already have Skype portable
2542 2013-04-13 16:13:25 <saracen> sipa: The service contact - what does it send when I receive bitcoins?
2543 2013-04-13 16:13:34 <saracen> Sorry, not sipa
2544 2013-04-13 16:13:36 <saracen> ashod: *
2545 2013-04-13 16:13:38 ThomasV has joined
2546 2013-04-13 16:13:39 <freeroute> on win7 x64
2547 2013-04-13 16:14:13 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2548 2013-04-13 16:14:36 xenesis_ has joined
2549 2013-04-13 16:14:45 <HM2> sweet
2550 2013-04-13 16:14:45 i2pRelay has joined
2551 2013-04-13 16:14:48 skinnkavaj has joined
2552 2013-04-13 16:14:48 <HM2> got this sucker mapping boost
2553 2013-04-13 16:15:45 <saracen> freeroute: Just make sure it isn't something stupid during the test, like a filetransfer :D
2554 2013-04-13 16:15:47 <ashod> ive' added the service as a skype user ( almost like a bot ) - but intgerated properly into the skype gui - when you add bitcoinIM as a user, it becomes a skype user service
2555 2013-04-13 16:16:41 banghouse has joined
2556 2013-04-13 16:16:46 <saracen> ashod: I get that. But what does it send to the user receiving bitcoins? A web address to a blockchain acocunt or what?
2557 2013-04-13 16:16:46 banghouse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2558 2013-04-13 16:16:57 banghouse has joined
2559 2013-04-13 16:17:30 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2560 2013-04-13 16:17:36 teff has joined
2561 2013-04-13 16:17:38 <ashod> no
2562 2013-04-13 16:17:44 <saracen> Or is it just that they can then IM the bot as well, and get the coins sent anywhere?#
2563 2013-04-13 16:17:44 <ashod> it send the bitcoins ,,
2564 2013-04-13 16:18:09 <ashod> each person who uses the service ( send or receive ) get a bc address generated for their skype username
2565 2013-04-13 16:18:33 <ashod> you type #address in the bitcoinIM window to see what your bc address is , if you like
2566 2013-04-13 16:18:42 <saracen> Right, and then they can message the bot to send the bitcoins elsewhere? Like a normal "tip"-like bot?
2567 2013-04-13 16:18:48 <freeroute> saracen: uh, sure. I won't spread malware since it's already automatically spreading with 2000 clicks per hour :p
2568 2013-04-13 16:19:15 <ashod> there is no files sent or software required, so how can malware be sent ?
2569 2013-04-13 16:19:39 <jaromil> what's the point in using bitcoin for this thing?
2570 2013-04-13 16:19:41 <freeroute> indeed, so hence no filetransfers :p
2571 2013-04-13 16:19:47 jaequery has joined
2572 2013-04-13 16:19:52 <freeroute> ease of use I guess
2573 2013-04-13 16:19:54 <HM2> the sooner C++ gets workable modules the better
2574 2013-04-13 16:20:03 duckybsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2575 2013-04-13 16:20:14 <jaromil> if the address is given by a third party and the wallet is stored and managed by it, that can simply be a central database as well
2576 2013-04-13 16:20:15 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2577 2013-04-13 16:20:16 <ashod> say you want to send bitcoins to a friend, who has no idea how to use bitcoins - but they are on your skype list, - you just right click their name, select an amount, and they have bitcoins instantly -
2578 2013-04-13 16:20:21 xenesis has joined
2579 2013-04-13 16:20:37 <jaromil> they don't have bitcoins, your service has the bitcoins
2580 2013-04-13 16:21:10 Diapolo has left ()
2581 2013-04-13 16:21:35 <saracen> With these tip bots appearing everywhere, it would almost be good if they had a proper name, so you could just be like "hey, I've made 'tip-bot' for skype" and everybody knows what you mean.
2582 2013-04-13 16:21:37 <ashod> When you use the service yuo get a bitcoin address , if that has a balance you use the service to transfer
2583 2013-04-13 16:21:43 <jaromil> its the same if you do a central database of skypecoin with the option to make it redeemable in bitcoins
2584 2013-04-13 16:21:44 <freeroute> jaromil: perhaps, so then you say to your friend "but if you want to have more control of your bitcoin, you should get out of your comfort zone and absorb more knowledge"
2585 2013-04-13 16:22:01 xenesis_ has joined
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2587 2013-04-13 16:22:21 <jaromil> freeroute: no I won't say that. I still don't see the point.
2588 2013-04-13 16:22:22 xenesis_ has quit (Client Quit)
2589 2013-04-13 16:22:26 <ashod> well if bitcoin is going to be used by the masses it really needs to be a bit more user friendly - just my opinion
2590 2013-04-13 16:22:48 i2pRelay has joined
2591 2013-04-13 16:22:51 <sipa> just make it clear they're trusting your server to temporarily hold the coins
2592 2013-04-13 16:22:51 Odyessus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2593 2013-04-13 16:22:52 <saracen> ashod: The problem with this user-friendly stuff is it lacks security
2594 2013-04-13 16:22:56 <freeroute> jaromil: would you rather spend time explaining how they could set up an offline wallet and secure their bitcoins?
2595 2013-04-13 16:22:58 <ashod> no it doesn't
2596 2013-04-13 16:23:03 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2597 2013-04-13 16:23:08 <saracen> Sure it does
2598 2013-04-13 16:23:12 D34TH has joined
2599 2013-04-13 16:23:13 <ashod> why ?
2600 2013-04-13 16:23:19 Odyessus has joined
2601 2013-04-13 16:23:22 <sipa> it lacks the trust-freeness that Bitcoin allows
2602 2013-04-13 16:23:29 <jaromil> user friendly doesn't necessarily means managed by a third party
2603 2013-04-13 16:23:32 <sipa> but people are free to trust anyone they want
2604 2013-04-13 16:23:42 <sipa> just make it clear they need to
2605 2013-04-13 16:23:48 <freeroute> jaromil: perhaps not, but as of now it does.
2606 2013-04-13 16:23:49 <ashod> is bitcoind secure ?
2607 2013-04-13 16:23:51 <saracen> Before, Skype to me was just communication with my boss or girlfriend. My password is hunter2. I don't care about it.
2608 2013-04-13 16:23:57 <saracen> But now, somebody sends me money.
2609 2013-04-13 16:24:01 <jaromil> freeroute: on your desk, perhaps.
2610 2013-04-13 16:24:04 <saracen> That's linked to my skype account.
2611 2013-04-13 16:24:22 <sipa> ashod: http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-kaminsky-highlights-flaws-bitcoin-2013-4
2612 2013-04-13 16:24:39 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2613 2013-04-13 16:24:42 <freeroute> jaromil: also I would note that most people don't have the technical competence of developers.
2614 2013-04-13 16:24:53 <Konnichiwa> Is there any application out there that will validate a TX byte stream for me? For the testnet?
2615 2013-04-13 16:25:04 <jaromil> freeroute: sure. still I don't see the point you are making.
2616 2013-04-13 16:25:06 <saracen> I started to make a similar service for IRC. But, Freenode expires accounts after like 10 weeks inactivity. Plus, the account name is different from your nickname. There's a host of problems.
2617 2013-04-13 16:25:38 <ashod> you can't really forge a skype username once it hits its peer - skype pretty secure
2618 2013-04-13 16:26:02 <jaromil> my point is that if you want to do a centralized service then you'd better just do a centralized database
2619 2013-04-13 16:26:11 <sipa> i wouldn't trust skype's security, it's too closed to know for sure
2620 2013-04-13 16:26:15 <saracen> ashod: But skype passwords are weak.
2621 2013-04-13 16:26:40 <freeroute> jaromil: the point is that as of now, the online services are the most noob friendly and convenient.
2622 2013-04-13 16:26:49 <jaromil> sipa: skype's security is nuts. skype backdoors are for sale since years for law enforcements and have leaked out already.
2623 2013-04-13 16:27:03 <sipa> really?
2624 2013-04-13 16:27:10 <Konnichiwa> I get this when sending Tx:
2625 2013-04-13 16:27:10 <Konnichiwa> mg2h9uh12tKRoK13RxYRS3HLzepLKGEA6x
2626 2013-04-13 16:27:15 <sipa> good i haven't cared about it for years
2627 2013-04-13 16:27:21 <Konnichiwa> I mean:
2628 2013-04-13 16:27:22 <Konnichiwa> ERROR: CScriptCheck() : 4f2ae8cf4e VerifySignature failed
2629 2013-04-13 16:27:22 <Konnichiwa> ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : ConnectInputs failed 4f2ae8cf4e
2630 2013-04-13 16:27:23 <freeroute> skype only has backdoors if MS wants it
2631 2013-04-13 16:27:30 <jaromil> that's my word but i'm fairly into the topic. in .it anything like that leaks in 0 time...
2632 2013-04-13 16:27:48 <X-Scale> ashod: I guess it depends on how you define security: http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c142/675600.html
2633 2013-04-13 16:27:51 <lianj> Konnichiwa: using your own code to sign the tx inputs?
2634 2013-04-13 16:28:09 <Konnichiwa> Yeah...
2635 2013-04-13 16:28:14 <Konnichiwa> Obv not quite there yet
2636 2013-04-13 16:28:21 <ashod> I co-wrote a skype security paper - a couple of years ago
2637 2013-04-13 16:28:31 <jaromil> since the ETSI dossiers on lawful interception, such kind of access is a business model for telcos and such...
2638 2013-04-13 16:28:43 <jaromil> at least in EU
2639 2013-04-13 16:28:45 <lianj> right, the you sign it wrong or sign the wrong hash or create the input script wrong
2640 2013-04-13 16:29:00 <sipa> ashod: ok, what does hardcoding it for skype offer above coinapult for example?
2641 2013-04-13 16:29:05 <lianj> Konnichiwa: what language?
2642 2013-04-13 16:29:19 <Konnichiwa> C#
2643 2013-04-13 16:30:18 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2644 2013-04-13 16:30:21 wallet42 has joined
2645 2013-04-13 16:30:29 <Diablo-D3> meh
2646 2013-04-13 16:30:31 <Diablo-D3> dont use C#
2647 2013-04-13 16:30:37 <jaromil> freeroute: but then why not make an online service with a central database of fiat currency that is redeemable in bitcoins?
2648 2013-04-13 16:30:39 <Diablo-D3> its a dead language that is patent encumbered and hell for developers and slow
2649 2013-04-13 16:30:51 i2pRelay has joined
2650 2013-04-13 16:30:57 <Konnichiwa> Diablo: Ok, but do you know how to sign Tx?
2651 2013-04-13 16:30:58 <sipa> also, ignore Diablo-D3
2652 2013-04-13 16:31:22 <Diablo-D3> Konnichiwa: theres a howto on the wiki iirc
2653 2013-04-13 16:31:32 <Diablo-D3> sipa: stop supporting microsoft.
2654 2013-04-13 16:31:35 <Konnichiwa> Yeah thats what I'm up to.
2655 2013-04-13 16:31:37 <lianj> Konnichiwa: sure you generate the right hash to sign?
2656 2013-04-13 16:31:39 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i don't
2657 2013-04-13 16:31:42 <jaromil> ahahahaha I love Diablo-D3 esp. when he rants
2658 2013-04-13 16:32:10 moarrr has joined
2659 2013-04-13 16:32:12 <Konnichiwa> I'm hashing and signing the Tx, then running the script to validate in my own code. All works (but obv something is wrong)
2660 2013-04-13 16:32:58 Irencus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2661 2013-04-13 16:33:27 <lianj> hashing the right stuff?
2662 2013-04-13 16:34:05 <Konnichiwa> I'm hashing the entire TX, with the input I'm signing set to the script of the referenced output 's script
2663 2013-04-13 16:34:35 <sipa> Konnichiwa: there are various complications for just computing that hash
2664 2013-04-13 16:34:51 <sipa> Konnichiwa: etotheipi_ has a nice graph with everything that is involved, i don't have a link though
2665 2013-04-13 16:35:08 <lianj> Konnichiwa: its different depending on the hash_type for example
2666 2013-04-13 16:35:21 <Konnichiwa> I'm just doing HashType All at the moment.
2667 2013-04-13 16:35:21 <lianj> *sighash_type
2668 2013-04-13 16:35:34 protojay__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2669 2013-04-13 16:36:01 <Konnichiwa> oh, hash code type at the end is 4 bytes..
2670 2013-04-13 16:36:06 <sipa> indeed
2671 2013-04-13 16:36:09 <lianj> yep
2672 2013-04-13 16:36:37 <t7> Diablo-D3: implying mono doesnt exist
2673 2013-04-13 16:37:14 <Diablo-D3> implying mono isnt an attack by microsoft to sue linux users
2674 2013-04-13 16:37:28 <Konnichiwa> CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 7ef7cde4e4 (poolsz 8)
2675 2013-04-13 16:37:28 <Diablo-D3> also implying it isnt a goddamned pile of shit that cant run apps especially made for it
2676 2013-04-13 16:37:31 <Konnichiwa> :D That was all I was missing.
2677 2013-04-13 16:38:21 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2678 2013-04-13 16:38:22 <lianj> Konnichiwa: congrats!
2679 2013-04-13 16:38:37 SebX43 has joined
2680 2013-04-13 16:38:53 i2pRelay has joined
2681 2013-04-13 16:38:53 <Konnichiwa> Thanks for your help guys. Was added Hash Type as 1 byte instead of int32
2682 2013-04-13 16:39:11 <sipa> Konnichiwa: nice job
2683 2013-04-13 16:39:32 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2684 2013-04-13 16:39:58 Blackreign has quit ()
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2686 2013-04-13 16:40:48 <Konnichiwa> Okay, So thats transactions working (it appears). Now to start investigating blocks...
2687 2013-04-13 16:42:00 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2688 2013-04-13 16:44:30 gruez has joined
2689 2013-04-13 16:45:10 someorother has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2690 2013-04-13 16:45:42 <SebX43> exit
2691 2013-04-13 16:45:47 SebX43 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
2692 2013-04-13 16:45:59 <lianj> Konnichiwa: maybe add the other sighash types too, or you can't verify all txs when processing blocks later
2693 2013-04-13 16:46:22 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2694 2013-04-13 16:46:41 dvide has quit ()
2695 2013-04-13 16:46:54 i2pRelay has joined
2696 2013-04-13 16:47:03 <Konnichiwa> Sure I'll investigate that, although I'm currently not forwarding any transactions, just leeching :(
2697 2013-04-13 16:47:07 flyingkiwiguy has quit (Quit: leaving)
2698 2013-04-13 16:48:31 <lianj> Konnichiwa: saves you wtf moment later on when you are verifing txs and some start to fail
2699 2013-04-13 16:48:46 <Konnichiwa> linaj: haha yes okay I'll look at that
2700 2013-04-13 16:48:49 flyingkiwiguy has joined
2701 2013-04-13 16:50:01 Ashaman has joined
2702 2013-04-13 16:50:21 <lianj> Konnichiwa: just port this https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script.cpp#L1131
2703 2013-04-13 16:51:33 <Konnichiwa> I'm working on understanding how the protocol etc works rather than blindly porting.
2704 2013-04-13 16:52:06 Scrat has joined
2705 2013-04-13 16:52:34 <lianj> porting that function helped me to understand how it works ;)
2706 2013-04-13 16:53:32 <Konnichiwa> Hmm, well think thats enough for today after sending transations. move on tomorrow.
2707 2013-04-13 16:53:48 cads has joined
2708 2013-04-13 16:53:58 meefozio has joined
2709 2013-04-13 16:54:15 <lianj> Konnichiwa: sure, just make a note about the other sighashes because they are used on the txs in the current mainchain
2710 2013-04-13 16:54:23 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2711 2013-04-13 16:54:39 <gruez> why does gitian take forever to build?
2712 2013-04-13 16:54:52 <gruez> i'm at this step "bin/make-base-vm"
2713 2013-04-13 16:54:55 i2pRelay has joined
2714 2013-04-13 16:54:57 <gruez> at it's taking over 15 minutes
2715 2013-04-13 16:55:02 <sipa> gruez: very normal
2716 2013-04-13 16:55:12 <gruez> sipa: do i need to run both lines?
2717 2013-04-13 16:55:16 <sipa> gruez: it's building a base ubuntu virtual machine, has to fetch packages, ...
2718 2013-04-13 16:55:28 <gruez> over here: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
2719 2013-04-13 16:55:37 <gruez> it says to run 2 lines for kvm
2720 2013-04-13 16:55:43 <gruez> I run both lines, right?
2721 2013-04-13 16:55:58 <sipa> yes, a 64-bit one and a 32-bit one
2722 2013-04-13 16:56:07 <sipa> i'm not sure whether KVM actually works nowadays
2723 2013-04-13 16:56:23 <gruez> uh oh
2724 2013-04-13 16:56:35 <gruez> do you recommend switching to LXC?
2725 2013-04-13 16:56:36 <sipa> i've used it for a while and it worked
2726 2013-04-13 16:56:51 <sipa> oh, i'm confused - it was LXC that was harder
2727 2013-04-13 16:57:01 <gruez> ok, so I'm good
2728 2013-04-13 16:57:02 <gruez> :)
2729 2013-04-13 16:58:01 paulo_ has quit (Changing host)
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2733 2013-04-13 17:00:07 <freeroute> jaromil: a central fiat database would require tremendous effort on complying both law regulations and interoperability between bank programming.
2734 2013-04-13 17:00:08 protojay_ has joined
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2736 2013-04-13 17:01:01 clr_ has joined
2737 2013-04-13 17:01:01 <Belxjander> freeroute: so thats why the <bank-branch-account-type> encoding?
2738 2013-04-13 17:01:23 <Belxjander> freeroute: distribution of the problem into localized sections?
2739 2013-04-13 17:02:11 clr_ is now known as c00w
2740 2013-04-13 17:02:21 moarrr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2741 2013-04-13 17:02:26 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2742 2013-04-13 17:02:35 <freeroute> Belxjander: that could be a solution yes, but will this be interoperable between all banks from all countries? Also, this effort, albeit providing a comprehensive service will require a lot of time and perhaps also money.
2743 2013-04-13 17:02:49 <Belxjander> freeroute: oh definitely
2744 2013-04-13 17:02:58 i2pRelay has joined
2745 2013-04-13 17:03:02 paulo_ has joined
2746 2013-04-13 17:03:03 ie6 has joined
2747 2013-04-13 17:03:04 <paulo_> hello
2748 2013-04-13 17:03:12 <freeroute> olleh
2749 2013-04-13 17:03:20 ColinT has joined
2750 2013-04-13 17:03:27 <paulo_> this is isn't really bitcoin related, but is a cryptography question. can I ask it here?
2751 2013-04-13 17:04:00 debiantoruser has joined
2752 2013-04-13 17:04:22 <Eliel> no other conversations going on right now. I don't see why not. It's tangentially on topic too :)
2753 2013-04-13 17:04:26 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2754 2013-04-13 17:05:05 <paulo_> I have a question about how to create a mutual trust p2p between two players of this game, but I'll have to explain the bare mechanics of the game first.
2755 2013-04-13 17:05:36 Darin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2756 2013-04-13 17:05:40 xenesis has joined
2757 2013-04-13 17:05:49 <paulo_> We have this board game (8x9) with game pieces of various ranks. when a there is a challenge between two pieces (they go to the same board) the winner (higher rank) is determined by a third party. the game pieces are never revealed to the other player.
2758 2013-04-13 17:06:04 <paulo_> how would I make a p2p program that doesn't require a third pary and doesn't reveal the game pieces?
2759 2013-04-13 17:06:07 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2760 2013-04-13 17:06:11 Odyessus has joined
2761 2013-04-13 17:06:46 <Eliel> ok, this goes way beyond what I could answer :)
2762 2013-04-13 17:06:54 <Plinker_> lol
2763 2013-04-13 17:07:43 <Eliel> well, actually, there is something I can say.
2764 2013-04-13 17:08:09 Darin has joined
2765 2013-04-13 17:08:12 <Eliel> you'll need homomoprhic encryption for this.
2766 2013-04-13 17:08:22 xenesis_ has joined
2767 2013-04-13 17:08:36 <gruez> ok guys, I need help with the last step of gitian setup
2768 2013-04-13 17:09:09 <Eliel> such that you can run calculations on the encrypted values themselves and only decrypting the final answer while not revealing any of the variables.
2769 2013-04-13 17:10:02 Anduck has joined
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2778 2013-04-13 17:12:32 Belxjander has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2779 2013-04-13 17:12:43 <etotheipi_> Konnichiwa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29416.msg370321#msg370321
2780 2013-04-13 17:13:01 TD has joined
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2785 2013-04-13 17:16:05 Diablo-D3 has joined
2786 2013-04-13 17:16:16 <saracen> paulo_: Do the players know the ranks of their own peices, is this generated for them at the start of each game?
2787 2013-04-13 17:16:46 <paulo_> saracen: the players know the rank of their own pieces, and they are to be arranged by the player.
2788 2013-04-13 17:16:55 Belxjander has joined
2789 2013-04-13 17:17:33 shurnormal has joined
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2791 2013-04-13 17:18:40 <saracen> paulo_: Assuming they move a peice into position or something, when that information is transmitted, couldnt player 1 and player 2 both encrypt the rank in the "move"? Such that both players end up with encrypted data but without any means to decrypt it
2792 2013-04-13 17:19:03 <saracen> Once the players agree they've both recieved the encrypted information, they then exchange the keys to decrypt
2793 2013-04-13 17:19:04 i2pRelay has joined
2794 2013-04-13 17:19:38 <paulo_> saracen: why would they exchange decryption keys?
2795 2013-04-13 17:19:53 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
2796 2013-04-13 17:20:14 <saracen> It would be for each move. But it now means that both players didn't know each others information before they had both agreed they were done with their turn/movement. But it depends how the game is played.
2797 2013-04-13 17:20:32 <paulo_> saracen: the ranks are never revealed, even after a challenge.
2798 2013-04-13 17:20:48 <saracen> Ah
2799 2013-04-13 17:20:54 moarrr has joined
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2802 2013-04-13 17:21:27 Belxjander has joined
2803 2013-04-13 17:21:41 <paulo_> it seems that i need a homomorphic encryption wherein the operation is a boolean function.
2804 2013-04-13 17:21:43 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2805 2013-04-13 17:22:39 protojay__ has joined
2806 2013-04-13 17:22:50 <freeroute> so since everyone here is keen on keeping the Bitcoin network strong, could anyone help me with building a mining botnet?
2807 2013-04-13 17:23:01 <sipa> haha
2808 2013-04-13 17:23:09 <freeroute> :D
2809 2013-04-13 17:23:28 mercerist has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2810 2013-04-13 17:23:31 protojay_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2812 2013-04-13 17:24:01 <freeroute> just imagine if the Fed wanted to destroy Bitcoin, they'll just buy shitton of ASICs and do a 51% attack! We can't let that happen now, can we?
2813 2013-04-13 17:24:22 <sipa> yes, let's make a botnet of ASICs
2814 2013-04-13 17:24:42 <freeroute> oh I haven't even thought about that yet, that would be devious
2815 2013-04-13 17:24:48 <ColinT> Couldn't we just add proof of stake and rewind the blockchain by like a day?
2816 2013-04-13 17:25:15 <freeroute> wouldn't that create a fork?
2817 2013-04-13 17:25:19 <sipa> duh
2818 2013-04-13 17:25:30 rcknight has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2819 2013-04-13 17:25:32 <freeroute> also, what would stop the Fed of doing it again?
2820 2013-04-13 17:25:33 <ColinT> Yeah - but I think everyone would rather be on the non-hacked fork
2821 2013-04-13 17:25:41 <lianj> there is prolly something, but whats the threat with a 51% attack other than they and mess with their own txs?
2822 2013-04-13 17:25:55 moarrr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2823 2013-04-13 17:25:59 <ColinT> I think the cost of the attack and the fact that it can easily be stepped around or rewinded would deter it
2824 2013-04-13 17:26:10 gruez has joined
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2826 2013-04-13 17:26:18 nsillik_ is now known as nsillik
2827 2013-04-13 17:26:20 <lianj> not include other txs maybe so stop txs?
2828 2013-04-13 17:26:21 bitcoinxc has joined
2829 2013-04-13 17:26:28 JohnSelf has joined
2830 2013-04-13 17:26:33 <bitcoinxc> Help me test my new bitcoin faucet - I am almost complete
2831 2013-04-13 17:26:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2832 2013-04-13 17:26:36 <bitcoinxc> http://www.bitcoinxc.com/
2833 2013-04-13 17:27:08 i2pRelay has joined
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2847 2013-04-13 17:37:32 <[joe_k]> can someone give me the gist of the openssl ecdsa signing func?
2848 2013-04-13 17:37:47 <[joe_k]> or, given the ecdsa primitives, how can I sign a bytearray
2849 2013-04-13 17:37:55 daveluke has joined
2850 2013-04-13 17:38:26 Hawkwood has joined
2851 2013-04-13 17:38:57 <sipa> [joe_k]: wikipedia has an easy-to-follow description of the algorithm
2852 2013-04-13 17:38:59 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2853 2013-04-13 17:38:59 <[joe_k]> e.g. something along the lines of "hash it with sha256 then treat the hash as a scalar and add it to the private key and reduce by the generator order"?
2854 2013-04-13 17:39:41 XRPTrader2 has joined
2855 2013-04-13 17:39:42 shurnormal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2856 2013-04-13 17:39:48 <[joe_k]> very good
2857 2013-04-13 17:39:55 <gruez> sipa: can you help me with setting up a gitian vm?
2858 2013-04-13 17:40:04 <sipa> gruez: what's the problem?
2859 2013-04-13 17:40:09 <gruez> I'm using this guide: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
2860 2013-04-13 17:40:21 <gruez> and i'm stuck at the virtual box setup part
2861 2013-04-13 17:40:31 <gruez>   make-base-vm cannot yet make VirtualBox virtual machines (patches welcome-- it should be possible to use VBoxManage, boot-from-network Linux images and PXE booting to do it). So you must either get or manually create VirtualBox machines that:
2862 2013-04-13 17:40:36 <gruez> I have no idea what to do
2863 2013-04-13 17:41:01 <sipa> virtualbox?
2864 2013-04-13 17:41:14 <gruez> yeah
2865 2013-04-13 17:41:23 <sipa> i thought you were using KVM
2866 2013-04-13 17:41:37 Diapolis has joined
2867 2013-04-13 17:41:51 shurnormal has joined
2868 2013-04-13 17:41:56 <gruez> well, I did everything up to this point:
2869 2013-04-13 17:42:03 <gruez>   bin/make-base-vm
2870 2013-04-13 17:42:04 <gruez>  bin/make-base-vm --arch i386
2871 2013-04-13 17:42:07 b4tt3r135 has joined
2872 2013-04-13 17:42:22 <sipa> ok, so what's the problem?
2873 2013-04-13 17:42:34 <sipa> i don't know anything about vbox support
2874 2013-04-13 17:42:34 <gruez> I don't know how to proceed
2875 2013-04-13 17:42:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2876 2013-04-13 17:42:43 <sipa> i didn't even know that was possible
2877 2013-04-13 17:42:45 stretchwarren has joined
2878 2013-04-13 17:42:47 <sipa> but KVM should work fine
2879 2013-04-13 17:42:56 <gruez> https://i.minus.com/ib03LoBhFZMjm5.png
2880 2013-04-13 17:42:56 i2pRelay has joined
2881 2013-04-13 17:43:09 JohnSelf has joined
2882 2013-04-13 17:43:10 <sipa> ok, that looks perfect?
2883 2013-04-13 17:43:33 <gruez> and here's the log
2884 2013-04-13 17:43:33 <gruez> http://pastie.org/pastes/7491346/text?key=3oi595zypw7k3fobstwzg
2885 2013-04-13 17:43:38 <gruez> what's the next step?
2886 2013-04-13 17:43:44 <sipa> you're done making the base image
2887 2013-04-13 17:43:58 <gruez> so i'm set to build?
2888 2013-04-13 17:44:02 <sipa> yes
2889 2013-04-13 17:44:17 <sipa> well, the hardest part is likely still yet to come
2890 2013-04-13 17:44:23 <gruez> aww :(
2891 2013-04-13 17:44:29 <sipa> i have a script i use
2892 2013-04-13 17:45:04 <gruez> so after I setup the KVM
2893 2013-04-13 17:45:10 <gruez> I can go to the build step?
2894 2013-04-13 17:45:13 <sipa> yes
2895 2013-04-13 17:45:23 <gruez> ok, nice
2896 2013-04-13 17:45:58 <sipa> let me put my script online
2897 2013-04-13 17:46:24 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/bitcoin-build.sh.txt
2898 2013-04-13 17:46:40 BlackPrapor has joined
2899 2013-04-13 17:47:07 <gruez> sipa: thanks
2900 2013-04-13 17:47:51 <gruez> i'll get back after testing it
2901 2013-04-13 17:47:56 Prof_Neurus has joined
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2911 2013-04-13 17:53:00 <andytoshi> anyone here familiar with bios on new acer pcs?
2912 2013-04-13 17:53:12 <andytoshi> like, how to get into it?
2913 2013-04-13 17:55:34 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2914 2013-04-13 17:56:08 i2pRelay has joined
2915 2013-04-13 17:56:25 <t7> f10?
2916 2013-04-13 17:56:42 <t7> always buy HP at work these days
2917 2013-04-13 17:57:08 <andytoshi> t7: nope, not f10 or f12 or f1 or f2 or del or esc
2918 2013-04-13 17:57:09 sharperguy has joined
2919 2013-04-13 17:57:09 <bitcoinxc> anyone want to beta test my bitcoin faucet?
2920 2013-04-13 17:57:19 Prof_Neurus has quit (Quit: Prof_Neurus)
2921 2013-04-13 17:57:25 <t7> yesh
2922 2013-04-13 17:57:28 <sydna> sure, why not
2923 2013-04-13 17:57:33 <bitcoinxc> I need beta testers - http://www.bitcoinxc.com/
2924 2013-04-13 17:57:34 <t7> i was first
2925 2013-04-13 17:57:41 <bitcoinxc> give me feedback - its not finished
2926 2013-04-13 17:58:02 shurnormal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2927 2013-04-13 17:58:13 <sydna> you might want to put a captcha on it
2928 2013-04-13 17:58:22 <t7> oh shit i have bitcoin in my mtgox... i could have sold :(
2929 2013-04-13 17:58:33 twmz has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2930 2013-04-13 17:58:42 twmz has joined
2931 2013-04-13 17:59:12 <andytoshi> thx all, know this is OT but for the logs, the answer is found at
2932 2013-04-13 17:59:14 <andytoshi> http://community.acer.com/t5/Acer-All-In-Ones-Desktops/Acer-Aspire-XC600-installing-Windows-7/td-p/6701/page/2
2933 2013-04-13 17:59:18 saracen has quit (Quit: leaving)
2934 2013-04-13 17:59:19 <t7> bitcoinxc: how do you rate limit?
2935 2013-04-13 17:59:32 Jere_Jones has joined
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2938 2013-04-13 18:01:47 andytoshi has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2940 2013-04-13 18:03:56 <sydna> t7: from a quick test then; he doesn't
2941 2013-04-13 18:03:58 meefozio has quit ()
2942 2013-04-13 18:04:00 <sydna> might want to fix that
2943 2013-04-13 18:04:18 i2pRelay has joined
2944 2013-04-13 18:04:32 <t7> someone write a script to spam donations to my address please
2945 2013-04-13 18:05:10 jandd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2946 2013-04-13 18:05:19 <sydna> this is why he is testing it I suppose, to learn about these things
2947 2013-04-13 18:06:19 Peacemaker420 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2948 2013-04-13 18:06:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2949 2013-04-13 18:06:25 mercerist has joined
2950 2013-04-13 18:06:28 Belxjander has joined
2951 2013-04-13 18:06:38 <Luke-Jr> t7: you don't want that
2952 2013-04-13 18:06:50 <Luke-Jr> it gets annoying
2953 2013-04-13 18:06:57 twmz has joined
2954 2013-04-13 18:07:20 ramir has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2955 2013-04-13 18:08:18 rcknight has joined
2956 2013-04-13 18:09:24 <sydna> Luke-Jr: you mean, the dust flooding your wallet?
2957 2013-04-13 18:09:31 <Luke-Jr> yes
2958 2013-04-13 18:10:49 FlyingLeap has joined
2959 2013-04-13 18:11:04 moarrr has joined
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2961 2013-04-13 18:12:20 i2pRelay has joined
2962 2013-04-13 18:12:34 <sydna> I'm not exactly sure the attraction of a faucet anyway
2963 2013-04-13 18:13:04 <sydna> I see people working up money out of thousands of faucet runs, it would be better worth their time just buying $1 of bitcoin
2964 2013-04-13 18:13:23 symbol has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2965 2013-04-13 18:13:55 protojay__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2966 2013-04-13 18:14:06 <TD> tx rate has slowed down a fair bit
2967 2013-04-13 18:14:23 twmz has left ()
2968 2013-04-13 18:14:59 andyh2 has joined
2969 2013-04-13 18:15:00 twmz__ has joined
2970 2013-04-13 18:17:33 robin_debspace has joined
2971 2013-04-13 18:17:39 <t7> whats the longest time between blocks ever ?
2972 2013-04-13 18:18:09 <sydna> someone posted about this on bitcointalk recently. it was hours
2973 2013-04-13 18:18:12 <sipa> time, or timestamp difference?
2974 2013-04-13 18:18:13 jciri has joined
2975 2013-04-13 18:18:22 twmz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2976 2013-04-13 18:18:30 twmz has joined
2977 2013-04-13 18:18:39 <sipa> also, including the period before the hashrate matched difficulty 1
2978 2013-04-13 18:18:43 <sipa> or not?
2979 2013-04-13 18:19:15 PhantomSpark has joined
2980 2013-04-13 18:19:17 PhantomSpark has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2981 2013-04-13 18:19:42 <t7> since block 10,000
2982 2013-04-13 18:19:50 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2983 2013-04-13 18:19:58 <robin_debspace> Hi everyone! I've got a question regarding Bitcoin / Bitcoin-Qt. I'm a blind computer user, and use screen reader software to access my Mac and Linux systems. I'd like to get started with Bitcoins, however I the GUI of Bitcoin-Qt unfortunately is programmed in a way that makes it inaccessible to me / blind users in general...
2984 2013-04-13 18:20:19 <robin_debspace> I was just wondering, is there anything else I could use, or possibly a command-line program?
2985 2013-04-13 18:20:22 i2pRelay has joined
2986 2013-04-13 18:20:30 <t7> robin_debspace: yes you can use bitcoind
2987 2013-04-13 18:20:44 <t7> can you use terminal programs ?
2988 2013-04-13 18:20:50 mercerist has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2989 2013-04-13 18:20:54 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2990 2013-04-13 18:21:20 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2991 2013-04-13 18:21:20 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2992 2013-04-13 18:21:22 <robin_debspace> t7: yes, I can. Is there anything compiled for Mac OS already?
2993 2013-04-13 18:21:28 Belxjander has joined
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2996 2013-04-13 18:21:43 <OneMiner> I'd like to specify a data dir besides %appdata%/bitcoin. How can I do that?
2997 2013-04-13 18:21:53 <BlueMatt> -datadir
2998 2013-04-13 18:21:59 <OneMiner> ty BlueMatt
2999 2013-04-13 18:22:10 shurnormal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3000 2013-04-13 18:22:35 <sipa> robin_debspace: unfortunately, bitcoind isn't included in the Mac OSX builds
3001 2013-04-13 18:22:51 <sydna> sipa: there is a tap for brew though
3002 2013-04-13 18:22:58 <sipa> sydna: oh, good
3003 2013-04-13 18:23:20 <t7> can you not use the bitcoind command with the qt client anymore?
3004 2013-04-13 18:23:33 <sipa> t7: sure you can, but you still need bitcoind!
3005 2013-04-13 18:23:34 <sydna> sipa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133097.0
3006 2013-04-13 18:23:39 <BlueMatt> t7: -server
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3018 2013-04-13 18:31:45 saracen2 is now known as saracen
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3020 2013-04-13 18:33:21 dclavijo is now known as daedalus2027
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3022 2013-04-13 18:35:14 <robin_debspace> well… any other possibilities then? i mean, the best solution of course would be if accessibility could be implemented in a future version of Bitcoin-Qt, however that might be tricky since Qt isn't very friendly when it comes to accessibility unfortunately
3023 2013-04-13 18:35:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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3027 2013-04-13 18:36:40 <Edward_Black> !seen gmaxwell
3028 2013-04-13 18:36:40 <gribble> gmaxwell was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <gmaxwell> paulo_: #bitcoin-pricetalk ... not here.
3029 2013-04-13 18:36:45 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: I have an older bitcoind for Mac, if that helps
3030 2013-04-13 18:36:48 ColinT has joined
3031 2013-04-13 18:37:12 ali1234 has joined
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3033 2013-04-13 18:37:30 <ali1234> why is this transaction rejected? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=r7Hz2FFE
3034 2013-04-13 18:37:59 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: this is compressed, and will NOT work after May 15th http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind/0.6.3/bin-osx-bitcoind-v0.6.3.bz2
3035 2013-04-13 18:38:18 sharperguy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3036 2013-04-13 18:38:21 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: if you don't have a better solution by then, let me know and I'll try to build a newer version
3037 2013-04-13 18:38:24 <sipa> ali1234: does ot have a fee?
3038 2013-04-13 18:38:50 <ali1234> and my second question, why are tx like this showing up in mtgox "pending tx" api?
3039 2013-04-13 18:38:51 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: also be aware it has some privacy vulnerabilities at least
3040 2013-04-13 18:38:56 Anduck has joined
3041 2013-04-13 18:39:35 <sipa> robin_debspace: you're welcome to open issues on the bugtracker for things that may help accessibility, but i don't know how familiar the gui coders are with that
3042 2013-04-13 18:39:53 <daedalus2027> hi, at which height the blk0003.dat file ends?
3043 2013-04-13 18:40:00 <sipa> daedalus2027: depends
3044 2013-04-13 18:40:17 <sipa> also, are you still on 0.7?
3045 2013-04-13 18:40:18 <Luke-Jr> daedalus2027: the blk0*.dat files are not deterministic
3046 2013-04-13 18:40:24 <daedalus2027> yes
3047 2013-04-13 18:40:34 <daedalus2027> and mine it is a 2Gb file
3048 2013-04-13 18:40:42 <sipa> yes, expected
3049 2013-04-13 18:41:05 <daedalus2027> is there a common case?
3050 2013-04-13 18:41:24 <Luke-Jr> daedalus2027: side note, you should upgrade to 0.8.1 or 0.7.3rc2 in any case
3051 2013-04-13 18:41:30 <sipa> but 0.8 uses smaller files, and you should upgrade before may 15 (or tweak some database settings for 0.7)
3052 2013-04-13 18:41:52 <Luke-Jr> sipa: fix your gitian yet btw? :P
3053 2013-04-13 18:41:58 Diapolis has joined
3054 2013-04-13 18:42:00 <daedalus2027> thank you, but for now i'm doing experiments so i need the full database
3055 2013-04-13 18:42:02 <sipa> Luke-Jr: working on it
3056 2013-04-13 18:42:10 <sipa> daedalus2027: so?
3057 2013-04-13 18:42:29 n1bor has joined
3058 2013-04-13 18:42:34 daybyter has joined
3059 2013-04-13 18:42:37 <daedalus2027> hm...
3060 2013-04-13 18:43:56 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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3062 2013-04-13 18:44:28 i2pRelay has joined
3063 2013-04-13 18:45:01 <daedalus2027> https://github.com/daedalus/bitcoin-recover-privkey
3064 2013-04-13 18:45:32 n1bor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3065 2013-04-13 18:46:47 <robin_debspace> Luke Thanks! Well… If it has security issues / vulnerabilities and an expiration date on it it's probably not such a good idea to use that, especially since I'd like to invest a bit of money in bitcoins and it would be kind of bad if I ended up being unable to access my Wallet due to an inaccessible client… Are there any other safe options maybe? I guess I could put it all into MT.Gox but not too sure here either...
3066 2013-04-13 18:46:58 dbe has joined
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3071 2013-04-13 18:48:32 <sipa> daedalus2027: ah
3072 2013-04-13 18:48:44 andyh2 has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
3073 2013-04-13 18:48:51 <sipa> daedalus2027: i have a patch for bitcoind that retrieves privkeys that way
3074 2013-04-13 18:49:07 <daedalus2027> @sipa nice
3075 2013-04-13 18:51:01 <daedalus2027> @sipa that should be good to spread some awareness, for those people using hardware wallets
3076 2013-04-13 18:51:20 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3077 2013-04-13 18:51:27 Belxjander has joined
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3079 2013-04-13 18:52:20 <daedalus2027> @sipa your patch will alert the user if it detects a private key
3080 2013-04-13 18:52:32 i2pRelay has joined
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3082 2013-04-13 18:53:32 <gonffen> robin_debspace: please do not store money on gox :(
3083 2013-04-13 18:53:50 <TD> lol
3084 2013-04-13 18:53:56 <sipa> daedalus2027: how can it?
3085 2013-04-13 18:53:58 <TD> subver /BitCoinJ:0.8-SNAPSHOT/DNSSeed:>9000/
3086 2013-04-13 18:54:11 <TD> BlueMatt: is that yours?
3087 2013-04-13 18:54:20 portfail_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3088 2013-04-13 18:54:31 <warren> Impressive power level.
3089 2013-04-13 18:54:38 <daedalus2027> @sipa i dont know
3090 2013-04-13 18:54:39 Peacemaker420 has joined
3091 2013-04-13 18:54:39 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3092 2013-04-13 18:54:54 <sipa> daedalus2027: i just searched for vulnerable signatures in the chain
3093 2013-04-13 18:55:21 <TD> i tweaked my node to print the subvers from version messages
3094 2013-04-13 18:55:28 <TD> it's interesting to see all the nodes whiz by
3095 2013-04-13 18:55:33 <TD> LOTS of android wallets. wow.
3096 2013-04-13 18:56:05 <BlueMatt> TD: yes, thats me
3097 2013-04-13 18:56:14 <daedalus2027> @sipa i would like a feature that sends an alert to me if my signatures are weak, it is something far fetched?
3098 2013-04-13 18:56:22 <TD> so what will the next version be? >9001?
3099 2013-04-13 18:56:38 <sipa> daedalus2027: there is no way to know who owns a key
3100 2013-04-13 18:56:46 <sipa> daedalus2027: and no way to contact them
3101 2013-04-13 18:56:49 <BlueMatt> na, Im too lazy to increment the subver...its been >9000 for a while now
3102 2013-04-13 18:57:39 <TD> daedalus2027: weren't the weak keys tracked back to a dev version of bitcoincard? and they knew and didn't care?
3103 2013-04-13 18:57:52 <sipa> TD: indeed
3104 2013-04-13 18:58:09 <sipa> well, they cared, but they were aware of it and it was a test version
3105 2013-04-13 18:58:16 <daedalus2027> ...didnt know
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3107 2013-04-13 19:00:11 <daedalus2027> my idea is: if a "hardware" wallet is betraying the user sending weak signatures, the user can scan its own transactions and know it
3108 2013-04-13 19:00:20 portfail_ has joined
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3110 2013-04-13 19:00:35 <TD> BlueMatt: is riker.plan99.net in your dns seed or is it not eligible for some reason?
3111 2013-04-13 19:00:57 <sipa> daedalus2027: implementing a check to find weak signatures is an order of magnitude harder than just making sure it's not weak in the first place
3112 2013-04-13 19:01:06 <TD> incidentally, does anyone know why traffic levels seem to have dropped?
3113 2013-04-13 19:01:36 <sipa> TD: the price has dropped? :p
3114 2013-04-13 19:01:41 <TD> heh
3115 2013-04-13 19:01:43 <Diablo-D3> lol luke is abusing his chanops in #bitcoin-mining again
3116 2013-04-13 19:01:43 <Diablo-D3> what a shill
3117 2013-04-13 19:02:11 <BlueMatt> TD: appears to be marked GOOD
3118 2013-04-13 19:02:19 <TD> ok
3119 2013-04-13 19:02:21 <TD> cool
3120 2013-04-13 19:02:35 robocoin has joined
3121 2013-04-13 19:02:39 <TD> how resource intensive is your app?
3122 2013-04-13 19:02:47 * TD is thinking of bringing his own dns seed online
3123 2013-04-13 19:03:01 <Diablo-D3> seriously, can luke shill for bfl any harder
3124 2013-04-13 19:04:23 <TD> BlueMatt: <300mb of ram?
3125 2013-04-13 19:04:26 <JohnSelf> what is the price speculation channel?
3126 2013-04-13 19:04:41 <BlueMatt> TD: well, it was originally written for an arm exynos board that I have, so it has all kinds of ugly hacks to work around openjdk-arm bugs, so its not exactly ideal for many situations (things like keeping the set of nodes in memory since the hardware had an sd card so slooow io...)
3127 2013-04-13 19:05:01 <BlueMatt> TD: no, if you ripped out all the crap it probably could
3128 2013-04-13 19:05:05 <TD> ok
3129 2013-04-13 19:05:08 <TD> sipa: :)
3130 2013-04-13 19:05:15 <TD> sipa: how is your seed doing?
3131 2013-04-13 19:05:30 <sipa> it has a hard time keeping up with current number of nodes
3132 2013-04-13 19:05:33 <Diablo-D3> who owns #bitcoin-mining?
3133 2013-04-13 19:05:38 <TD> BlueMatt: how much ram DOES it use then?
3134 2013-04-13 19:05:55 <BlueMatt> TD: my current res in java is 896m, but who knows how much actual heap that is
3135 2013-04-13 19:06:07 <TD> mmmph. yeah that's a bit high.
3136 2013-04-13 19:06:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3137 2013-04-13 19:06:23 <TD> what about cpu
3138 2013-04-13 19:06:26 <sipa> mybseed runs with 281 MB res now
3139 2013-04-13 19:06:29 Belxjander has joined
3140 2013-04-13 19:06:32 <sipa> and a lot of cpu
3141 2013-04-13 19:06:33 <OneMiner> BlueMatt The -datadir thing, how should that be used in Windows? Create a shortcut and put that in the target line? Example: -datadir R:\bitcoin DATA
3142 2013-04-13 19:06:44 <TD> sipa: mybseed?
3143 2013-04-13 19:06:51 <BlueMatt> TD: cpu isnt terrible, peaks like 20% on an atom
3144 2013-04-13 19:06:53 <TD> sipa: does it crawl the network? How does it select nodes?
3145 2013-04-13 19:07:00 <sipa> TD: the b is remarkably close to the spacebar
3146 2013-04-13 19:07:05 <TD> hehe
3147 2013-04-13 19:07:08 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3148 2013-04-13 19:07:12 <BlueMatt> OneMiner: that would work
3149 2013-04-13 19:07:15 Belxjander has joined
3150 2013-04-13 19:07:25 <HM2> http://i.imgur.com/plBwrMO.png woo, finally found correct vantage point for the guts of asio
3151 2013-04-13 19:07:32 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: use that one tool to find out
3152 2013-04-13 19:07:32 <Diablo-D3> I forget the name of it
3153 2013-04-13 19:07:45 <OneMiner> BlueMatt Is this a newish thing? Would it work with version 0.6.3? I'm having trouble.
3154 2013-04-13 19:07:46 sfraise has joined
3155 2013-04-13 19:07:51 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I could find out, but Im lazy and dont want to restart...
3156 2013-04-13 19:07:52 <sipa> TD: it maintains some statistics, ignores nodes that have been too offline for a time, bans them after even longer, but apart from that, just looos through its list
3157 2013-04-13 19:07:59 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3158 2013-04-13 19:08:02 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3159 2013-04-13 19:08:07 <BlueMatt> OneMiner: should work for like 0.3.X, though you should upgrad too :)
3160 2013-04-13 19:08:10 <sipa> OneMiner: -datadir=dir
3161 2013-04-13 19:08:17 <sipa> OneMiner: not a space
3162 2013-04-13 19:08:17 <sfraise> Anyone working on an arbitrage system for bitstamp and mtgox?
3163 2013-04-13 19:08:35 i2pRelay has joined
3164 2013-04-13 19:08:47 johnsoft has joined
3165 2013-04-13 19:08:49 noah has joined
3166 2013-04-13 19:08:49 <OneMiner> Seems to work sipa. Thank you very much. BlueMatt too. :)
3167 2013-04-13 19:09:04 <sipa> OneMiner: also, uograde to 0.8.x
3168 2013-04-13 19:09:10 <Luke-Jr> OneMiner: note 0.6.3 won't work *at all* after May 15
3169 2013-04-13 19:09:31 <Luke-Jr> 0.8.1 is best, but 0.6.5rc2 will also work if you really need it for some reason (why?)
3170 2013-04-13 19:09:33 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: you dont have to restart
3171 2013-04-13 19:09:33 <Diablo-D3> the tool connects to running jvms and introspects them
3172 2013-04-13 19:09:33 <Diablo-D3> it comes with java
3173 2013-04-13 19:09:33 <OneMiner> Sorry to be a little shady but this info is for a litecoin build!
3174 2013-04-13 19:09:38 * OneMiner runs away
3175 2013-04-13 19:09:48 <sipa> OneMiner: good luck then
3176 2013-04-13 19:09:55 * Luke-Jr grumbles about litecoin abusing bitcoin resources
3177 2013-04-13 19:09:58 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: yes, visualvm, but its running on a server without X, and, again, Im lazy...
3178 2013-04-13 19:10:32 <BlueMatt> TD: mine has an interface for the datastore, so you /could/ reimplement it using a real db, but thats only if you feel like working for it
3179 2013-04-13 19:10:54 <sfraise> Is there any way to transfer funds from mtgox to bitstamp quickly and cheaply?
3180 2013-04-13 19:11:10 <BlueMatt> sfraise: #mtgox might know
3181 2013-04-13 19:11:26 grau has joined
3182 2013-04-13 19:11:28 <sfraise> thanks I'll check there, does bitstamp have a channel?
3183 2013-04-13 19:11:38 <BlueMatt> dunno, check #bitstamp
3184 2013-04-13 19:11:45 sfraise has quit (Client Quit)
3185 2013-04-13 19:12:10 saracen is now known as saracen2
3186 2013-04-13 19:12:39 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: yeah visualvm
3187 2013-04-13 19:12:48 <TD> sipa: i have enough ram to run your node
3188 2013-04-13 19:13:00 <Diablo-D3> wonder if you can ssh in with x forwarding
3189 2013-04-13 19:13:13 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: also dont have jdk on that box (just jvm) so...Im lazy
3190 2013-04-13 19:13:21 cultavix has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3191 2013-04-13 19:13:23 OneMiner has quit (Quit: Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.)
3192 2013-04-13 19:13:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: would be interesting to get slave support in your dnsseed
3193 2013-04-13 19:13:33 Odyessus has joined
3194 2013-04-13 19:14:01 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3195 2013-04-13 19:14:06 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: heh oh wel
3196 2013-04-13 19:14:37 <robin_debspace> gonffen: sorry for the delay! Why is it a bad idea to store Bitcoins on Gox? Any other risks aside from their servers getting hacked?
3197 2013-04-13 19:15:02 paracyst has joined
3198 2013-04-13 19:15:06 <TD> perhaps after i do the netty 4 port i'll try my hand at a new bitcoinj based crawler/seeder and see if i can a better one. though addr support is more important :)
3199 2013-04-13 19:15:23 <gonffen> robin_debspace: well for instance, I got on this morning and was informed by a friend of mine that somebody logged into her account, bought BTC with her cash and transferred it out
3200 2013-04-13 19:15:41 ichiban has joined
3201 2013-04-13 19:15:41 <Diablo-D3> so I think Ive figured out what luke is
3202 2013-04-13 19:15:41 <Diablo-D3> hes not a christian like he claims to be
3203 2013-04-13 19:15:41 <Diablo-D3> hes a troll
3204 2013-04-13 19:15:48 <gonffen> robin_debspace: it just removes any possible safety you could have by using bitcoin
3205 2013-04-13 19:15:57 <Diablo-D3> he has sold his soul to satan and willfully lives his life in the bondage of slavery
3206 2013-04-13 19:15:58 ichiban has left ()
3207 2013-04-13 19:16:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3208 2013-04-13 19:16:27 <BlueMatt> TD: yea...mine started quite simple...then I started working around openjdk-arm bugs, now its a huge pile of mess
3209 2013-04-13 19:16:39 i2pRelay has joined
3210 2013-04-13 19:17:04 <TD> too bad java on arm is so flaky
3211 2013-04-13 19:17:31 <robin_debspace> gonffen: Oh wow, that's pretty bad! Well, of course she might have used a weak password or she provided login data to a phisher, but of course that is really bad for her!!!
3212 2013-04-13 19:17:40 <BlueMatt> yea, it was really only one or two bugs, but that + strange hardware constraints kinda blew up
3213 2013-04-13 19:17:54 <BlueMatt> now it runs on x86 and Im too lazy to refactor it
3214 2013-04-13 19:18:00 copumpkin has joined
3215 2013-04-13 19:18:07 <gonffen> robin_debspace: yes I'm really not sure... but it was a bit of a bummer after discovering essentially free cash a few weeks back ;)
3216 2013-04-13 19:18:09 <TD> if i do head /dev/random and nothing comes out, that means my VPS's entropy pool is gone, right
3217 2013-04-13 19:18:29 <noah> Question:  I want to pull all blocks from Jan 1, 2013.  Is there some easy way to do this?  I suppose that worst case, I could iterate though all of them looking at the "blocktime" field.  But was hoping there was a faster way
3218 2013-04-13 19:18:42 <BlueMatt> TD: cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
3219 2013-04-13 19:19:13 <BlueMatt> TD: yes, but it also blocks until it has some minimum byte count that I dont remember
3220 2013-04-13 19:19:21 portfail_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3221 2013-04-13 19:19:33 <TD> BlueMatt: is 130 a large or small number? i suspect …. small
3222 2013-04-13 19:20:00 <BlueMatt> reasonably small, though maybe not so tiny if its like a vps that hasnt been up long/is using entorpy
3223 2013-04-13 19:20:07 <BlueMatt> entropy*
3224 2013-04-13 19:20:10 <TD> yeah
3225 2013-04-13 19:20:20 <sipa> TD: install haveged
3226 2013-04-13 19:20:23 <robin_debspace> gonffen: Oh wow… Well yeah, that's pretty bad! Hmmm… Well do you happen to have any other ideas on what I can do given that I can't access Bitcoin-Qt and no recent version of bitcoind is available for Mac OS? I do have a Debian Linux server, but then I don't really feel like storing my wallet on a server either...
3227 2013-04-13 19:20:41 <TD> yeah, i was just thinking that
3228 2013-04-13 19:20:46 <sipa> robin_debspace: apparently, you can build bitcoind through homebrew
3229 2013-04-13 19:20:55 <TD> it's no big deal. i was just going to create a random password for a dedicated user for the seeder
3230 2013-04-13 19:21:01 bitcoinxc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3231 2013-04-13 19:21:01 polrpaul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3232 2013-04-13 19:21:06 <TD> and discovered i didn't seem to have enough entropy to do it on the box itself
3233 2013-04-13 19:21:10 <sipa> robin_debspace: if you're familiar with that
3234 2013-04-13 19:21:16 <sipa> (i do not)
3235 2013-04-13 19:21:20 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3236 2013-04-13 19:21:28 Belxjander has joined
3237 2013-04-13 19:22:31 <gonffen> would something like electrum be an option?
3238 2013-04-13 19:22:33 <sipa> i guess i'll have to spltop postponing rewriting the peer selection code in my seeder...
3239 2013-04-13 19:22:39 <gonffen> I haven't touched an os x machine in about a year
3240 2013-04-13 19:22:52 <sipa> pfff, stop
3241 2013-04-13 19:22:53 <robin_debspace> sipa: no, honestly I have no clue what homebrew it. But if you could tell me a word or two about it and maybe point me somewhere I can find more info I'll be happy to give it a try! Also, what is bitcoind exactly, is it like a CLI that gives me access to all relevant Bitcoin features?
3242 2013-04-13 19:22:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: what does the selection algorithm look like?/what will it look like?
3243 2013-04-13 19:23:01 dnathe4th has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3244 2013-04-13 19:23:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: now it's just iterating through the list, with some logic to reduce the frequency of bad nodes, and remove very bad nodes entirely
3245 2013-04-13 19:24:07 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3246 2013-04-13 19:24:14 darenthis has quit (Quit: darenthis)
3247 2013-04-13 19:24:25 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok...not sure if thats smarter or not than mine (just return the set of most-recently-checked-and-good nodes)
3248 2013-04-13 19:24:35 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: bitcoind is a JSON-RPC client designed for simple web services, but it also has a testing tool that you could use as a CLI client to some extent
3249 2013-04-13 19:24:43 i2pRelay has joined
3250 2013-04-13 19:24:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: what i want is use a minimal learning algorithm that determines the best polling frequency, puts nodes into separate buckets based on that, assign a chance to each bucket, and pick at random
3251 2013-04-13 19:24:48 <TD> sipa: it segfaults :(
3252 2013-04-13 19:24:54 <sipa> TD: owww
3253 2013-04-13 19:24:57 jandd has joined
3254 2013-04-13 19:25:07 <TD> #0  0x000000000040d18c in T.933 ()
3255 2013-04-13 19:25:08 <TD> #1  0x000000000040d9af in CService::CService(char const*, int, bool) ()
3256 2013-04-13 19:25:09 <TD> #2  0x0000000000419cd0 in main ()
3257 2013-04-13 19:25:13 <TD> what a weird stack trace
3258 2013-04-13 19:25:20 <TD> T.933 looks like something compiler generated
3259 2013-04-13 19:25:27 <sipa> indeed
3260 2013-04-13 19:25:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: that sounds like waaay overkill to me...
3261 2013-04-13 19:25:55 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: I would suggest opening an Issue on GitHub asking for bitcoind releases for Mac, and explaining your need.
3262 2013-04-13 19:25:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i disagree, plus the algorithm is very easy and i know it well
3263 2013-04-13 19:26:04 robin_debspace has left ()
3264 2013-04-13 19:26:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: just need to write it :)
3265 2013-04-13 19:26:16 <Luke-Jr> robin_debspace: although it may first be a good idea to try the 0.6.3 one I posted just to see if that works for you
3266 2013-04-13 19:26:33 <TD> sipa: i think because it haven't configured it right
3267 2013-04-13 19:26:42 <sipa> TD: it shouldn't need configuration
3268 2013-04-13 19:26:45 <TD> 142	bool Lookup(const char *pszName, std::vector<CService>& vAddr, int portDefault, bool fAllowLookup, unsigned int nMaxSolutions)
3269 2013-04-13 19:26:45 <TD> 143	{
3270 2013-04-13 19:26:47 <TD> 144	    if (pszName[0] == 0)
3271 2013-04-13 19:26:47 <TD> 145	        return false;
3272 2013-04-13 19:26:49 <TD> it crashes on line 144
3273 2013-04-13 19:26:50 <Luke-Jr> oh well, he left
3274 2013-04-13 19:26:51 <TD> pszName is false
3275 2013-04-13 19:26:54 <TD> er null
3276 2013-04-13 19:27:04 <sipa> TD: oh, it should complain in main about that
3277 2013-04-13 19:27:19 <TD> what does it mean? that i didn't set up the actual dns records yet? :)
3278 2013-04-13 19:27:26 Autrui has joined
3279 2013-04-13 19:27:28 <Autrui> Hi
3280 2013-04-13 19:27:30 <sipa> TD: read the readme
3281 2013-04-13 19:27:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: heh, alright have fun...Ill stick with my dumb "looked good most recently" "algorithm"
3282 2013-04-13 19:27:41 <Autrui> I'm having some troubles with bitcoind 0.8.1, and the RPC
3283 2013-04-13 19:27:52 <Autrui> I have this error : {"result":null,"error":{"code":-32700,"message":"Parse error"},"id":null}
3284 2013-04-13 19:27:56 <TD> yeah, i figured i'd run it first and then test it with dig @, then set up the name in dns for it later
3285 2013-04-13 19:27:59 <TD> but i suppose that doesn't work
3286 2013-04-13 19:28:22 rainworm has joined
3287 2013-04-13 19:28:44 lessthanzero has joined
3288 2013-04-13 19:29:07 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
3289 2013-04-13 19:29:18 OneFixt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3290 2013-04-13 19:29:23 reizuki__ has joined
3291 2013-04-13 19:29:24 ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
3292 2013-04-13 19:29:36 OneFixt has joined
3293 2013-04-13 19:29:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: idea is this: there's half a million IPs circulating... most are not worth looking at, quite some are just up all the time, and some set switches on/off... it's most interesting to spend time on those going on/off :)
3294 2013-04-13 19:30:14 <sipa> right now, i need over a day to crawl my whole database, even with bans/ignores into account
3295 2013-04-13 19:30:15 <median^> when you recieve payment to an address that you own, does the client check periodiacally for transactions to your address or is there a callback function in the api that notifies if payment is recieved to your address?
3296 2013-04-13 19:30:16 bonks has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3297 2013-04-13 19:30:19 OneMiner has joined
3298 2013-04-13 19:30:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: yep, but the lazy-man's approach is just test those that have been online in the past ~24 hours more often than those that werent...
3299 2013-04-13 19:30:45 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3300 2013-04-13 19:30:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: wow...I can crawl the set in a few hours if I set concurrency high
3301 2013-04-13 19:30:51 lessthanzero has left ()
3302 2013-04-13 19:30:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i use 24 threads
3303 2013-04-13 19:31:11 <sipa> i can set it higher, then it works faster
3304 2013-04-13 19:31:17 creftos_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3305 2013-04-13 19:31:30 <sipa> but i should also switch to asio instead of one tjread per connection
3306 2013-04-13 19:31:31 <BlueMatt> I just open n connections/sec...
3307 2013-04-13 19:31:49 <BlueMatt> and tons of threads, but none of them dynamic per connections
3308 2013-04-13 19:32:09 <sipa> i don't create a new thread per connection
3309 2013-04-13 19:32:10 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3310 2013-04-13 19:32:19 <sipa> i just have n crawler threads
3311 2013-04-13 19:32:39 <BlueMatt> yea, sorry, meant I dont change the number of threads based on number of connections or any settings
3312 2013-04-13 19:32:41 i2pRelay has joined
3313 2013-04-13 19:32:46 eklass has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3314 2013-04-13 19:32:54 <sipa> ok
3315 2013-04-13 19:33:00 paybitcoin1 has joined
3316 2013-04-13 19:33:40 paybitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3317 2013-04-13 19:33:46 <t7> TD netty 4 port to what?
3318 2013-04-13 19:34:01 <TD> bitcoinj
3319 2013-04-13 19:34:09 b4tt3r135 has quit (Excess Flood)
3320 2013-04-13 19:35:17 * TD waits for dns to update
3321 2013-04-13 19:36:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3322 2013-04-13 19:36:28 Belxjander has joined
3323 2013-04-13 19:37:38 <median^> if i create my own client, do i check for incoming payments regularly or is there a hook in the api?
3324 2013-04-13 19:37:59 <sipa> median^: 0.8.2 will have -walletnotify
3325 2013-04-13 19:38:21 <sipa> which executes a command you choose any time a wallet transaction gets added/changed
3326 2013-04-13 19:38:43 <TD> is there a script on debian where admins can put stuff to run at startup time? like without the hassle of an init script
3327 2013-04-13 19:38:45 <median^> thanks
3328 2013-04-13 19:38:48 * TD just wants to shove the iptables command somewhere
3329 2013-04-13 19:39:10 systemParanoid has joined
3330 2013-04-13 19:39:39 <BlueMatt> the usual recommendation for iptables-load and iptables-save is in /etc/network/interfaces in up/down scripts
3331 2013-04-13 19:40:12 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3332 2013-04-13 19:40:39 enquirer2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3333 2013-04-13 19:40:42 i2pRelay has joined
3334 2013-04-13 19:40:45 eklass has joined
3335 2013-04-13 19:41:01 OneMiner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3336 2013-04-13 19:41:12 * Luke-Jr wishes Debian had an iptables init script like Gentoo :/
3337 2013-04-13 19:41:27 <Autrui> Anyone could help me with that error on RPC connect ? {"result":null,"error":{"code":-32700,"message":"Parse error"},"id":null}
3338 2013-04-13 19:41:43 <TD> BlueMatt: up/down scripts?
3339 2013-04-13 19:42:22 jaequery has joined
3340 2013-04-13 19:42:42 <TD> looks like i want iptables-persistent
3341 2013-04-13 19:42:46 <BlueMatt> TD: the line "up iptables-load < /etc/iptables.save"
3342 2013-04-13 19:42:48 Guest49791 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3343 2013-04-13 19:42:55 <BlueMatt> TD: actually, probably pre-up
3344 2013-04-13 19:43:02 blackreign has joined
3345 2013-04-13 19:43:13 enquirer has joined
3346 2013-04-13 19:43:43 <BlueMatt> TD: "down iptables-save > /etc/iptables.save" and "pre-up iptables-load < /etc/iptables.save" is probably simpler...
3347 2013-04-13 19:44:02 <Luke-Jr> Autrui: the last one who had that problem was doing GET instead of POST
3348 2013-04-13 19:44:19 <Autrui> Hm
3349 2013-04-13 19:44:27 <Autrui> I'm not doing anything :°
3350 2013-04-13 19:44:30 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: I'd always save manually
3351 2013-04-13 19:44:39 <Autrui> I just put the port on bitcoin.conf, and then connect to the port
3352 2013-04-13 19:44:39 Balthamos has joined
3353 2013-04-13 19:44:42 Anduck has joined
3354 2013-04-13 19:44:42 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
3355 2013-04-13 19:44:42 Anduck has joined
3356 2013-04-13 19:44:46 <Autrui> put my username and password, and that's it
3357 2013-04-13 19:44:57 <Autrui> I didn't know there was other things to do...
3358 2013-04-13 19:44:58 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: except when you forget...
3359 2013-04-13 19:45:03 Balthamos is now known as Guest73210
3360 2013-04-13 19:45:05 <Luke-Jr> Autrui: err, what? it's a JSON-RPC server..
3361 2013-04-13 19:45:25 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: dunno about you, but when I reboot a server once a year, I usually dont remember exactly which things I need to restart when it comes back up/goes down
3362 2013-04-13 19:45:39 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: I'd rather forget to save, than accidentally lose it because down gets called without a pre-up :/
3363 2013-04-13 19:45:58 b4tt3r135 has joined
3364 2013-04-13 19:46:00 <Luke-Jr> also, if your server crashes or such, down won't get called at all
3365 2013-04-13 19:46:26 <BlueMatt> fine "down iptables-save > /etc/iptables.save" "down iptables-save > /etc/iptables.save.`date +%s`"
3366 2013-04-13 19:46:31 <Autrui> Hm... What is JSON-RPC using for ? It may be a pebkac from me..
3367 2013-04-13 19:46:56 <TD> BlueMatt: not if-up.d?
3368 2013-04-13 19:47:08 <Luke-Jr> Autrui: for applications
3369 2013-04-13 19:47:11 jaequery_ has joined
3370 2013-04-13 19:47:16 <Autrui> Ok, it's a pebkac from me
3371 2013-04-13 19:47:18 <Autrui> Sorry :(
3372 2013-04-13 19:47:25 <BlueMatt> TD: that works too
3373 2013-04-13 19:47:38 <BlueMatt> TD: I usually throw it in /etc/network/interfaces so its all in one place
3374 2013-04-13 19:47:39 <noah> Curious if any of you are planning to attend the BTC conference in May in San Jose ??
3375 2013-04-13 19:47:40 jaequery has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3376 2013-04-13 19:47:44 <Autrui> Thanks for help
3377 2013-04-13 19:47:57 <BlueMatt> TD: also, if-up.d may be called before eth0 is up when lo is brought up? nfc
3378 2013-04-13 19:48:10 <TD> uh
3379 2013-04-13 19:48:16 jaequery_ is now known as jaequery
3380 2013-04-13 19:48:17 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3381 2013-04-13 19:48:26 <TD> this brings back memories of way too much time spent screwing with linux ...
3382 2013-04-13 19:48:28 <Diablo-D3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKCM8myJ9I&feature=youtu.be
3383 2013-04-13 19:48:28 <TD> oh well
3384 2013-04-13 19:48:35 jaequery has quit (Client Quit)
3385 2013-04-13 19:48:47 i2pRelay has joined
3386 2013-04-13 19:49:39 <TD> sipa: you never explained what the segfault means
3387 2013-04-13 19:49:42 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3388 2013-04-13 19:50:04 <TD> NS record is bad?
3389 2013-04-13 19:50:55 * BlueMatt wonders how long until cnbc has someone on who actually knows something about bitcoin
3390 2013-04-13 19:51:06 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: lol, as if they care
3391 2013-04-13 19:51:11 daedalus2027 has quit (Quit: leaving)
3392 2013-04-13 19:51:15 <BlueMatt> heh, no
3393 2013-04-13 19:51:20 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3394 2013-04-13 19:51:27 Belxjander has joined
3395 2013-04-13 19:52:06 OneMiner has joined
3396 2013-04-13 19:52:08 <Luke-Jr> grau: how do I get notified of bitsofproof releases?
3397 2013-04-13 19:52:26 Peacemaker420 has quit ()
3398 2013-04-13 19:54:22 daedalus2027 has joined
3399 2013-04-13 19:54:36 <sipa> TD: if you don't specify an NS record, it *should* just disable the DNS functionality
3400 2013-04-13 19:54:54 <sipa> TD: just got home, checking the code now
3401 2013-04-13 19:54:58 <TD> hmmm
3402 2013-04-13 19:55:11 <TD> seems like it may be thinking i'm trying to use tor
3403 2013-04-13 19:55:18 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3404 2013-04-13 19:55:42 teff_ has joined
3405 2013-04-13 19:56:00 copumpkin has joined
3406 2013-04-13 19:56:05 polrpaul has joined
3407 2013-04-13 19:56:07 <sipa> TD: i see it
3408 2013-04-13 19:56:16 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3409 2013-04-13 19:56:21 <sipa> TD: in CDnsSeedOpts, tor isn't initialized to NULL
3410 2013-04-13 19:56:26 <TD> yep
3411 2013-04-13 19:56:37 teff__ has joined
3412 2013-04-13 19:56:38 <t7> TD did you write bitcoinj?
3413 2013-04-13 19:56:40 * TD fixinates
3414 2013-04-13 19:56:43 <TD> t7: most of it
3415 2013-04-13 19:56:48 i2pRelay has joined
3416 2013-04-13 19:57:25 <sipa> TD: fix pushed
3417 2013-04-13 19:57:33 <HM2> TD wrote all the bits except the bits with bugs
3418 2013-04-13 19:57:57 <t7> and by transitivity, you work(ed) for google?
3419 2013-04-13 19:58:13 meLon has joined
3420 2013-04-13 19:58:52 graingert_ has joined
3421 2013-04-13 19:58:52 graingert_ has quit (Changing host)
3422 2013-04-13 19:58:52 graingert_ has joined
3423 2013-04-13 19:59:21 teff has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3424 2013-04-13 19:59:28 <TD> i do
3425 2013-04-13 19:59:30 <TD> why?
3426 2013-04-13 19:59:33 Diapolis has joined
3427 2013-04-13 20:00:29 teff_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3428 2013-04-13 20:00:48 <paracyst> do you like green tea?
3429 2013-04-13 20:00:48 saracen2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3430 2013-04-13 20:00:55 copumpkin has quit ()
3431 2013-04-13 20:00:56 <paracyst> since we're asking random questions
3432 2013-04-13 20:01:07 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3433 2013-04-13 20:01:24 copumpkin has joined
3434 2013-04-13 20:01:36 <TD> no. i prefer black tea.
3435 2013-04-13 20:01:41 <MC1984> earl grey or gtfo
3436 2013-04-13 20:02:06 <TD> dnsseed.plan99.net   …. is alive!
3437 2013-04-13 20:02:10 <HM2> one does not change the tea to suit the mood, but change the mood to suit the tea
3438 2013-04-13 20:02:27 <TD> thanks sipa, BlueMatt. very helpful.
3439 2013-04-13 20:02:31 <TD> i wonder if i can apparmor it
3440 2013-04-13 20:03:29 michal_ has joined
3441 2013-04-13 20:03:30 <TD> needs a reboot. maybe a project for another time.
3442 2013-04-13 20:03:38 <sipa> TD: for now, you'll like want to kill/restart it once a day or so, and increase the crawler threads
3443 2013-04-13 20:03:47 <TD> why kill/restart?
3444 2013-04-13 20:04:00 <sipa> there's a weird bug where it sometimes becomes very slow
3445 2013-04-13 20:04:05 saracen2 has joined
3446 2013-04-13 20:04:17 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3447 2013-04-13 20:04:25 <TD> ok
3448 2013-04-13 20:04:29 <sipa> i never bothered to search for it, as i wanted to replace that part entirely
3449 2013-04-13 20:04:38 <TD> what's the relation between "number of crawlers" and "number of threads"?
3450 2013-04-13 20:04:50 i2pRelay has joined
3451 2013-04-13 20:04:57 <sipa> one is threads for serving DNS, the other is threads for crawling
3452 2013-04-13 20:05:20 <sipa> more than one DNS server thread is likely overkill if you have less than a few thousand hits per second
3453 2013-04-13 20:05:28 <sipa> but i wanted to see how much it could handle :)
3454 2013-04-13 20:06:00 <MC1984> is this how DNS seed is formed?
3455 2013-04-13 20:06:07 <TD> i see
3456 2013-04-13 20:06:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3457 2013-04-13 20:06:24 <TD> i'll try with 100 crawler threads and 5 dns threads
3458 2013-04-13 20:06:29 Belxjander has joined
3459 2013-04-13 20:07:00 Free-Way has joined
3460 2013-04-13 20:07:12 <TD> so
3461 2013-04-13 20:07:14 <TD> what do the stats mean?
3462 2013-04-13 20:07:15 <TD> [13-04-13 23:44:56] 69/32432 available (378 tried in 350s, 31954 new, 100 active), 0 banned; 0 DNS requests, 5 db queries
3463 2013-04-13 20:07:28 <TD> N of M available?
3464 2013-04-13 20:07:49 sharperguy has joined
3465 2013-04-13 20:08:12 Odyessus has joined
3466 2013-04-13 20:08:32 <TD> crawled of advertised i guess
3467 2013-04-13 20:09:35 <sipa> 69 is how many nodes are considered good
3468 2013-04-13 20:09:43 <sipa> 32432 is how many are in the database
3469 2013-04-13 20:09:49 <TD> from addr messages
3470 2013-04-13 20:09:53 <sipa> indeed
3471 2013-04-13 20:10:16 <TD> is each thread doing async io?
3472 2013-04-13 20:10:16 <sipa> 378 is the number of nodes at least attempted to connect to once
3473 2013-04-13 20:10:21 <sipa> no
3474 2013-04-13 20:10:29 <TD> ok
3475 2013-04-13 20:10:34 <Guest73210> Ìû
3476 2013-04-13 20:10:46 <sipa> 350s is the age of the oldest node tried
3477 2013-04-13 20:10:56 <sipa> 31954 is the number not tried yet
3478 2013-04-13 20:11:00 <sipa> 100 is the number being tried now
3479 2013-04-13 20:11:00 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3480 2013-04-13 20:11:06 <TD> oh dear. my vps just died.
3481 2013-04-13 20:11:11 <sipa> ouch...
3482 2013-04-13 20:11:15 jaequery has joined
3483 2013-04-13 20:11:20 <sipa> did the seeder kill it?
3484 2013-04-13 20:11:26 EPiSKiNG- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3485 2013-04-13 20:11:28 <TD> well, not sure
3486 2013-04-13 20:11:41 <TD> it shouldn't have done
3487 2013-04-13 20:11:44 <TD> 100 threads is not that aggressive
3488 2013-04-13 20:11:49 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3489 2013-04-13 20:12:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3490 2013-04-13 20:12:20 <grau>  Luke-Jr: not released yet for production
3491 2013-04-13 20:12:31 Pinion has joined
3492 2013-04-13 20:12:53 i2pRelay has joined
3493 2013-04-13 20:12:54 Pinion is now known as Guest57323
3494 2013-04-13 20:13:11 kombinezon has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130408165307])
3495 2013-04-13 20:13:17 <grau> Luke-Jr: are you interested in some feature in particular?
3496 2013-04-13 20:13:35 EPiSKiNG- has joined
3497 2013-04-13 20:13:46 EPiSKiNG- is now known as Guest68480
3498 2013-04-13 20:14:00 <TD> looks like a temp connectivity hiccup
3499 2013-04-13 20:14:03 <Luke-Jr> grau: no, just want to track the status of stable/old/broken versions for http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html
3500 2013-04-13 20:14:06 <TD> it's fine again and apparently not loaded
3501 2013-04-13 20:14:20 <Luke-Jr> eventually
3502 2013-04-13 20:14:52 <TD> Luke-Jr: what does vulnerable mean there?
3503 2013-04-13 20:15:11 <Luke-Jr> TD: affected by some CVE
3504 2013-04-13 20:15:19 <TD> ok
3505 2013-04-13 20:15:27 <Luke-Jr> or BIP
3506 2013-04-13 20:15:37 jaequery has quit (Client Quit)
3507 2013-04-13 20:15:37 <Luke-Jr> soft/hard fork BIPs
3508 2013-04-13 20:17:27 <grau> Luke-Jr: is there more detail on this chart. I do not know how to interpret
3509 2013-04-13 20:18:21 <Luke-Jr> grau: the user agents and their designation are there, if you scroll down
3510 2013-04-13 20:19:06 <grau> what information do you need to change botsofproof from unknown ?
3511 2013-04-13 20:19:28 <Luke-Jr> grau: would need a way to be notified when 0.8 is no longer current :p
3512 2013-04-13 20:20:12 Diablo-D3 has joined
3513 2013-04-13 20:20:20 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3514 2013-04-13 20:20:35 RBecker is now known as rbecker
3515 2013-04-13 20:20:52 i2pRelay has joined
3516 2013-04-13 20:21:04 <TD> why are there so many addr advertisements for garbage nodes?
3517 2013-04-13 20:21:08 <grau> Luke-Jr: do you have a wiki or similar where I should update version, or you prefer a mail?
3518 2013-04-13 20:21:20 rbecker is now known as RBecker
3519 2013-04-13 20:21:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3520 2013-04-13 20:21:27 Belxjander has joined
3521 2013-04-13 20:21:44 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3522 2013-04-13 20:21:46 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3523 2013-04-13 20:21:50 <Luke-Jr> grau: that might be a good idea (making such a wiki page)
3524 2013-04-13 20:21:52 portfail_ has joined
3525 2013-04-13 20:21:52 Phoebus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3526 2013-04-13 20:21:52 <pgp> ;;goxlag
3527 2013-04-13 20:21:53 <gribble> MtGox lag is 2523.649969 seconds. During this time, light travels 5.05736628168 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Jupiter (5.2 AU).
3528 2013-04-13 20:22:06 <pgp> ?  what's going on
3529 2013-04-13 20:22:20 <BlueMatt> pgp: #mtgox knows
3530 2013-04-13 20:22:29 Phoebus has joined
3531 2013-04-13 20:22:39 noah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3532 2013-04-13 20:23:17 <grau> The https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Software page should perhabs list most recent versions
3533 2013-04-13 20:23:20 ProfMac has joined
3534 2013-04-13 20:24:24 daveluke has joined
3535 2013-04-13 20:25:04 <Luke-Jr> grau: created https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Software_versions
3536 2013-04-13 20:25:10 <TD> sipa: seems to be running well, great work!
3537 2013-04-13 20:25:49 <grau> Luke-Jr: great! I add the current
3538 2013-04-13 20:25:55 <JohnSelf> can someone here redesign the gox website?
3539 2013-04-13 20:26:34 Guest70449 is now known as diki
3540 2013-04-13 20:26:38 <fredrico> redesign to do what?
3541 2013-04-13 20:26:41 <fredrico> work better?
3542 2013-04-13 20:26:42 <JohnSelf> work.
3543 2013-04-13 20:26:44 pgp has left ()
3544 2013-04-13 20:26:46 liva has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3545 2013-04-13 20:26:46 <fredrico> trade faster?
3546 2013-04-13 20:26:46 <diki> What is CReserveKey?
3547 2013-04-13 20:26:49 <TD> sipa: what is "good" again in this context? it's trying a ton of nodes and the good number isn't going up all that fast
3548 2013-04-13 20:26:50 <diki> what is it's purpose?
3549 2013-04-13 20:27:08 <fredrico> bitcoin wouldnt be fun w/o the clusterfuck/mystery that is...MtGox
3550 2013-04-13 20:27:08 <sipa> TD: there are a ton of bad nodes :)
3551 2013-04-13 20:27:19 <TD> sipa: nodes that broadcast but are behind NATs?
3552 2013-04-13 20:27:19 <sipa> well, IPs
3553 2013-04-13 20:27:20 <RBecker> yes, cosurgi?
3554 2013-04-13 20:27:29 <sipa> TD: or just don't exist anymore
3555 2013-04-13 20:27:29 <JohnSelf> lag is now 45 minutes and rising, if someone could fix that it would be super
3556 2013-04-13 20:27:32 <TD> sipa: "good" just means "reachable and responds to a connect"?
3557 2013-04-13 20:27:43 <TD> JohnSelf: take it to #mtgox please. nobody here can do anything about it.
3558 2013-04-13 20:28:01 <sipa> TD: it's more complex than that- when it has been tried several times, and it's only up X% of the time, it'll be considered bad too
3559 2013-04-13 20:28:02 <TD> JohnSelf: it's 5am in japan. probably mark will take a look at it when he wakes up in a few hours
3560 2013-04-13 20:28:07 <TD> sipa: ok
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3562 2013-04-13 20:28:11 <sipa> TD: but after just one attempt, it means reachable or not
3563 2013-04-13 20:28:14 Guest68480 is now known as EPiKSiNG-
3564 2013-04-13 20:28:21 <JohnSelf> Perhaps they ordered their new servers from BFL.
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3568 2013-04-13 20:28:44 <sipa> TD: it'd be nice if i could let it connect to bitcoind to ask for the top block, and verify that peers have that block
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3571 2013-04-13 20:29:00 <sipa> now it just checks saneness of the P2P protocol
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3573 2013-04-13 20:29:02 <TD> indeed
3574 2013-04-13 20:29:20 <TD> you could assume that the highest height seen so far is the correct one as long as it was reported by >N% of peers
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3576 2013-04-13 20:30:09 <BlueMatt> or...keep a local bitcoind and ask for a block that is top-N and verify that that block comes back good
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3578 2013-04-13 20:32:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: yup, that'd be perfect
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3588 2013-04-13 20:36:40 <ProfMac> can I change bitcoin-QT, in server mode, to onlynet = IPv6 without rebooting it?
3589 2013-04-13 20:36:44 Duly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3591 2013-04-13 20:36:59 <diki> In function CWallet::ReserveKeyFromKeyPool there is a  line that says keypool.vchPubKey = CPubKey(); Where is CPubKey(); located?
3592 2013-04-13 20:37:11 <Cryptrader> 7 in the last 30 mins?
3593 2013-04-13 20:37:19 <BlueMatt> diki learn grep
3594 2013-04-13 20:37:30 <BlueMatt> ProfMac: dont think so, but check the options menu
3595 2013-04-13 20:37:32 <Cryptrader> any only one from btcguild
3596 2013-04-13 20:37:43 <BlueMatt> Cryptrader: welcome to the world of pdfs
3597 2013-04-13 20:37:58 jaequery has joined
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3599 2013-04-13 20:38:11 <diki> BlueMatt:I have notepad++ that has the ability to search in files, the only place I see CPubKey() is in key.h
3600 2013-04-13 20:38:38 <diki> and it's just a class with an empty constructor
3601 2013-04-13 20:38:53 <Cryptrader> bluematt pdfs?
3602 2013-04-13 20:39:05 <BlueMatt> probability density function
3603 2013-04-13 20:39:13 <BlueMatt> diki: ok...so you found it
3604 2013-04-13 20:39:14 <Cryptrader> ah yeah
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3606 2013-04-13 20:41:48 <diki> BlueMattL: i can see it, I just can't see how it returns a value
3607 2013-04-13 20:42:06 dbe has joined
3608 2013-04-13 20:42:07 <diki> the line is keypool.vchPubKey = CPubKey();, which means CPubKey returns something, a public key
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3611 2013-04-13 20:43:55 <diki> unless keypool.vchPubKey holds a new instance of CPubKey
3612 2013-04-13 20:44:05 <sipa> diki: learn C++ then
3613 2013-04-13 20:44:13 <sipa> diki: constructors don't return anything, they initialize
3614 2013-04-13 20:44:19 <ProfMac> BlueMatt: nope, not in options.
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3616 2013-04-13 20:44:30 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: I don't think so. Someone has a pullrequest to allow putting in in "offline mode" - I suggest you extend that to "only <net>" options as well
3617 2013-04-13 20:44:30 ColinT has joined
3618 2013-04-13 20:44:32 <BlueMatt> ProfMac: then no
3619 2013-04-13 20:44:41 median^ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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3621 2013-04-13 20:45:07 <ProfMac> Thanks Luke.
3622 2013-04-13 20:45:17 <diki> sipa:Usually a new instance of a class is created with new <Class Name>. Lacking this keywords, it's easy to get lost.
3623 2013-04-13 20:45:28 orblivion has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3624 2013-04-13 20:45:30 <sipa> diki: in Java
3625 2013-04-13 20:45:45 orblivion has joined
3626 2013-04-13 20:45:46 <sipa> new also exists in C++, but it's only used if you want to dynamically allocate a new object
3627 2013-04-13 20:45:52 <sipa> which doesn't happen here
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3632 2013-04-13 20:50:18 <HM2> [21:22] <sipa> diki: constructors don't return anything, they initialize
3633 2013-04-13 20:50:37 <HM2> keypool.vchPubKey = CPubKey(); is perfectly valid code
3634 2013-04-13 20:50:57 <sipa> well, *calling* a constructor returns the new object
3635 2013-04-13 20:51:00 <HM2> it'll create a temporary and then call the copy constructor
3636 2013-04-13 20:51:04 <sipa> but the code implementing the constructor doesn't
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3639 2013-04-13 20:51:30 <sipa> it just gets executed to initialize the memory
3640 2013-04-13 20:51:54 <HM2> the caller will allocate the memory on the stack, the constructor turns that space in to an object
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3643 2013-04-13 20:53:41 <sipa> i have no idea whether you're disagreeing with me, restating it in a different way, or just ignoring what i said and showing that you know how it works :)
3644 2013-04-13 20:54:01 <Luke-Jr> well, he's clearly not disagreeing
3645 2013-04-13 20:54:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: there's a difference?
3646 2013-04-13 20:54:33 <sipa> between?
3647 2013-04-13 20:54:39 <HM2> I have no idea what's being said
3648 2013-04-13 20:54:42 <diki> the code is very interconnected
3649 2013-04-13 20:54:44 <BlueMatt> <sipa> i have no idea whether you're disagreeing with me, restating it in a different way, or just ignoring what i said and showing that you know how it works :)
3650 2013-04-13 20:54:53 <diki> I personally am having hard time to understand it :P
3651 2013-04-13 20:55:20 <BlueMatt> diki: yes, its actually a serious problem imnsho
3652 2013-04-13 20:55:38 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3653 2013-04-13 20:56:52 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: diki having a hard time understanding is a serious problem?
3654 2013-04-13 20:57:06 <sipa> the code being very interconnected is a serious problem - i agree
3655 2013-04-13 20:57:06 * Luke-Jr gets the feeling that we have a communications black hole in here today
3656 2013-04-13 20:57:44 <sipa> but keypool.vchPubKey = CPubKey() looks pretty straighforward, imho
3657 2013-04-13 20:57:48 <HM2> https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Abitcoin%2Fbitcoin+keypool.vchPubKey+&ref=simplesearch&type=Code
3658 2013-04-13 20:57:50 <HM2> this bit?
3659 2013-04-13 20:59:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, in that case its just diki not understanding C++ semantics, but it would be nice to split things up
3660 2013-04-13 20:59:12 <HM2> it's kind of weird
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3664 2013-04-13 21:01:15 <sipa> BlueMatt: agree
3665 2013-04-13 21:01:22 <HM2> afaict every time GetReservedKey() is called CKeyPool is first constructed using a default constructor
3666 2013-04-13 21:01:41 <sipa> yes, that database logic is just weird
3667 2013-04-13 21:01:43 <HM2> GetReservedKey then initialises the member with a default object again
3668 2013-04-13 21:01:52 <HM2> derp
3669 2013-04-13 21:01:58 n1bor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3670 2013-04-13 21:03:02 <HM2> CKeyPool::SetNull() also does the same job
3671 2013-04-13 21:03:49 <HM2> but whatever, i once spent 2 days tracking down a 7 object chain of shared_ptr's forming a circular reference :|
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3686 2013-04-13 21:11:16 <sipa> Luke-Jr, TD: i've just pushed some changes that should reduce CPU usage of bitcoin-seeder significantly
3687 2013-04-13 21:11:23 <TD> ok
3688 2013-04-13 21:11:34 bon_grips has joined
3689 2013-04-13 21:11:35 <TD> it wasn't an issue for me at the moment. so i might update later
3690 2013-04-13 21:11:42 nsillik_ has quit (Quit: nsillik_)
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3693 2013-04-13 21:12:35 shurnormal has joined
3694 2013-04-13 21:12:52 <sipa> now running with 512 crawler threads at 2% cpu usage
3695 2013-04-13 21:13:01 bon_grips has quit (Client Quit)
3696 2013-04-13 21:13:03 <sipa> used to be 24 threads and 80% cpu
3697 2013-04-13 21:13:09 DunnoNL has joined
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3699 2013-04-13 21:13:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: how about the hanging?
3700 2013-04-13 21:13:57 <santoscork> I hope I am in the right channel, just a few quick question please. Diablominer reports the following mhash: 164.5/163.5 , what are these two numbers and why does the one on the left periodically change while the one on the right doesn't?
3701 2013-04-13 21:14:13 AlbertTuring has joined
3702 2013-04-13 21:14:15 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that may be fixed as well, but i have no clue what caused that
3703 2013-04-13 21:14:29 <diki> santoscork:What kind of GPU are you using to mine?
3704 2013-04-13 21:15:10 <santoscork> AMD Radeon HD 6970M diki
3705 2013-04-13 21:15:22 <diki> you gonna fry that laptop man
3706 2013-04-13 21:15:22 <santoscork> 2GB RAM if that matters
3707 2013-04-13 21:15:23 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3708 2013-04-13 21:15:30 <DunnoNL> Question: I'm trying to build a website (PHP with bitcoind and JSON-RPC) that accepts Bitcoin payments. I can make payments from PHP but Bitcoin sends change to random locations. How do I find out where it was sent?
3709 2013-04-13 21:15:33 <santoscork> It's actually a desktop
3710 2013-04-13 21:15:38 <santoscork> but anyway
3711 2013-04-13 21:15:41 <diki> with a 6970MMM?
3712 2013-04-13 21:15:47 <santoscork> yes
3713 2013-04-13 21:15:52 <diki> It's mobo GPU?
3714 2013-04-13 21:15:52 <santoscork> M
3715 2013-04-13 21:16:14 <santoscork> It's an iMac i7 3.4GHz 8 core w.32GB RAM
3716 2013-04-13 21:16:32 <sipa> DunnoNL: why do you need to know where it sends change?
3717 2013-04-13 21:16:33 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3718 2013-04-13 21:16:37 <santoscork> That's how they ship. not the best GPU I know
3719 2013-04-13 21:16:38 threepence has joined
3720 2013-04-13 21:16:44 <sipa> DunnoNL: it always uses a fresh address for each output, that's intended
3721 2013-04-13 21:17:03 <diki> santoscork:Don't want to start a flamewar, but an iMac can hardly be called a desktop
3722 2013-04-13 21:17:05 i2pRelay has joined
3723 2013-04-13 21:17:16 <sipa> diki: then don't say such things
3724 2013-04-13 21:17:27 <DunnoNL> When I read the API and documentation over the past few days it looked really easy, but now I've actually got bitcoins to test my scripts it turns out it's way more complex.
3725 2013-04-13 21:17:38 <DunnoNL> I 'loose' the change with every transaction. I can't access it from PHP anymore.
3726 2013-04-13 21:17:40 <santoscork> diki, that's ok :) I love my machine
3727 2013-04-13 21:17:42 <t7> can bitcoind forget old addresses now?
3728 2013-04-13 21:17:47 <t7> (i mean key pairs)
3729 2013-04-13 21:17:52 <diki> santoscork:Well, I'd monitor the temps. Otherwise you may need to replace all of it.
3730 2013-04-13 21:17:54 <sipa> DunnoNL: how do you mean, lose?
3731 2013-04-13 21:18:09 <santoscork> but I was just wondering what diablominer means to reference with those two numbers
3732 2013-04-13 21:18:09 <sipa> DunnoNL: getbalance will report it correctly, you can use it to send somewhere, ...
3733 2013-04-13 21:18:33 <santoscork> diki, I appreciate it, I can throttle the fans up/down if need be
3734 2013-04-13 21:18:40 <DunnoNL> Yes, but I don't know the address. I used Blockchain.info transaction analysis to find the address where it was sent.
3735 2013-04-13 21:18:54 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3736 2013-04-13 21:18:55 <diki> santoscork:Don't forget VRMs, those are also important.
3737 2013-04-13 21:18:58 <graingert> gmaxwell: what is your real name?
3738 2013-04-13 21:18:59 <jsfsn> DunnoNL: Do they send to random addresses?
3739 2013-04-13 21:19:05 <diki> I wrote my own tool and do I2C on the card to fetch the temperatures.
3740 2013-04-13 21:19:17 <DunnoNL> - Typing that I realize I could probably analyze the transaction log, but I can't test anymore because all my bitcoins are stuck in validation -
3741 2013-04-13 21:19:18 <sipa> DunnoNL: yes, the abstraction provided by a wallet is higher; if you look at the low-level transactions below it (such as with b.i), you'll see unexpected things
3742 2013-04-13 21:19:20 <graingert> (paper citation / acknowledgement in relation to I taint rich"
3743 2013-04-13 21:19:22 <graingert> )
3744 2013-04-13 21:19:23 <diki> But I am using the hw i2c engine, instead of adding commands to the GPU driver.
3745 2013-04-13 21:19:25 oru has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3746 2013-04-13 21:19:32 <santoscork> My DPU is at 78 degrees right now.
3747 2013-04-13 21:19:37 <santoscork> *GPU
3748 2013-04-13 21:19:44 <sipa> DunnoNL: in general: a wallet is a set of coins, and the keys to spend them; it has some addresses at which it receives coins
3749 2013-04-13 21:19:55 <sipa> DunnoNL: but it doesn't consider addresses to have an individual balance
3750 2013-04-13 21:19:58 <BlueMatt> graingert: "Gregory Maxwell"
3751 2013-04-13 21:20:09 <santoscork> Here are those numbers again, mhash: 167.4/163.5 . Any idea what the two references? Again I am using DiabloMiner binary for mining
3752 2013-04-13 21:20:11 <graingert> BlueMatt: awesome
3753 2013-04-13 21:20:11 <sipa> DunnoNL: only the wallet as a whole has a balance
3754 2013-04-13 21:20:23 <DunnoNL> jsfsn: Yes, change goes to random addresses, as intended apparently.
3755 2013-04-13 21:20:33 <graingert> BlueMatt: do you think I should use Gregory (gmaxwell) Maxwell
3756 2013-04-13 21:20:37 <DunnoNL> sipa: I think my understanding of the whole concept is wrong.
3757 2013-04-13 21:20:50 <BlueMatt> graingert: gmaxwell stands for gregory maxwell...so it seems redundant, no?
3758 2013-04-13 21:21:00 <diki> sipa:So if I had the private key for this address https://blockchain.info/address/17K3ZABEQsoAYNm9BbPRBzj2gzzVZRMizs I won't be able to spend the coins?
3759 2013-04-13 21:21:01 <graingert> I think the nick is important
3760 2013-04-13 21:21:13 <sipa> DunnoNL: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
3761 2013-04-13 21:21:17 <sipa> DunnoNL: that may help
3762 2013-04-13 21:21:20 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3763 2013-04-13 21:21:21 <graingert> because I'm pointing to the forum post in a footnote
3764 2013-04-13 21:21:27 Belxjander has joined
3765 2013-04-13 21:21:30 <graingert> and I want to refer to the posts of user gmaxwell
3766 2013-04-13 21:21:44 <sipa> diki: if you know the unspent outputs that require the key corresponding to that address, yes
3767 2013-04-13 21:21:49 <sipa> diki: which your wallet software tracks
3768 2013-04-13 21:21:50 <graingert> I'll ask my superviser at the draft viva
3769 2013-04-13 21:22:24 shesek has joined
3770 2013-04-13 21:22:27 <sipa> in general, it's misconception that bitcoin transactions send from an address to an address
3771 2013-04-13 21:22:34 <graingert> sipa: claims to track
3772 2013-04-13 21:22:36 <sipa> they consume coins, and produce new coins
3773 2013-04-13 21:22:41 <DunnoNL> Thanks sipa. I understand the concept.
3774 2013-04-13 21:22:48 BCBot` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3775 2013-04-13 21:22:49 <sipa> graingert: hmm?
3776 2013-04-13 21:22:49 <paulo_> i asked this question before, but I didn't get an answer
3777 2013-04-13 21:23:04 <paulo_> how does the client determine if a transaction in a block is valid?
3778 2013-04-13 21:23:16 threepence has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3779 2013-04-13 21:23:19 <sipa> paulo_: by checking whether it satisfies all validity rules
3780 2013-04-13 21:23:27 <paulo_> it has to check if the address has balance, right?
3781 2013-04-13 21:23:32 <sipa> paulo_: _NO_
3782 2013-04-13 21:23:41 <paulo_> ok. how, then?
3783 2013-04-13 21:23:41 <DunnoNL> But then how do websites that allow payments track these payments? Each address receives Bitcoins and thus has a balance, or am I wrong?
3784 2013-04-13 21:24:17 <sipa> DunnoNL: you could say that each address has a balance, by summing the value of all unspent transaction outputs which require a key corresponding to that address
3785 2013-04-13 21:24:28 <sipa> DunnoNL: but nowhere in the software or in the protocol is such a balance used
3786 2013-04-13 21:24:31 hnz has joined
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3788 2013-04-13 21:24:31 <BlueMatt> paulo_: <sipa> in general, it's misconception that bitcoin transactions send from an address to an address <sipa> they consume coins, and produce new coins <--those were like 3 lines ago....
3789 2013-04-13 21:24:33 <sipa> DunnoNL: it's just how you look at it
3790 2013-04-13 21:24:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3791 2013-04-13 21:24:41 xenesis has joined
3792 2013-04-13 21:25:01 <sipa> DunnoNL: that is what those sites track using a huge index
3793 2013-04-13 21:25:10 i2pRelay has joined
3794 2013-04-13 21:25:21 <sipa> DunnoNL: but it's not required (and leads to misunderstanding) for using bitcoin
3795 2013-04-13 21:25:28 ltrottier has joined
3796 2013-04-13 21:25:31 <DunnoNL> Is there a place where I can find more information or perhaps examples of PHP implementations?
3797 2013-04-13 21:25:49 <sipa> paulo_: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
3798 2013-04-13 21:26:03 <sipa> paulo_: read that first, and ask of you still have questions
3799 2013-04-13 21:26:36 <DunnoNL> I got the basic setup (bitcoind, JSON-RPC and connection/send coins) ready, but I'm stuck.
3800 2013-04-13 21:27:00 ubias has joined
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3805 2013-04-13 21:28:10 <paulo_> sipa: ok. so the client checks if the address is authorized to use those coins?
3806 2013-04-13 21:28:41 <sipa> paulo_: it doesn't need to - it knows all coins you're allowed to spend, since it follows them
3807 2013-04-13 21:28:58 <sipa> oh, you're talking about validation
3808 2013-04-13 21:29:06 <paulo_> sipa: yes, validation
3809 2013-04-13 21:29:24 <sipa> well, similar: it maintains a database with all unspent transaction outputs, and who is allowed to spend them
3810 2013-04-13 21:29:30 <jsfsn> sipa: Totalt send to address, isent that used as kind of a balance?
3811 2013-04-13 21:29:33 Namworld has joined
3812 2013-04-13 21:29:35 <jsfsn> Without the spent transactions (:
3813 2013-04-13 21:29:42 <paulo_> sipa: won't that database become unwidely big?
3814 2013-04-13 21:29:46 rlifchitz has quit (Quit: "I never worry about action, but only about inaction" (W. Churchill))
3815 2013-04-13 21:29:53 <sipa> paulo_: far far smaller than the blockchain itself :)
3816 2013-04-13 21:29:54 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3817 2013-04-13 21:29:59 <sipa> paulo_: it's something like 150 MB now
3818 2013-04-13 21:30:01 xenesis has joined
3819 2013-04-13 21:30:03 <paulo_> oh. where is this located?
3820 2013-04-13 21:30:06 <sipa> in chainstate/
3821 2013-04-13 21:30:10 <sipa> in your datadir
3822 2013-04-13 21:30:32 <sipa> jsfsn: no idea what you're asking
3823 2013-04-13 21:30:53 <paulo_> I'm on windows, though.
3824 2013-04-13 21:31:02 <sipa> paulo_: you do have a datadir still
3825 2013-04-13 21:31:04 <jsfsn> You said nowhere in the code where the balanace calculated for an address, getreceivedbyaddress is quite close, isent it?
3826 2013-04-13 21:31:12 <sipa> jsfsn: yes, indeed
3827 2013-04-13 21:31:19 <paulo_> sipa: yes, but there is no chainstate/.
3828 2013-04-13 21:31:20 <sipa> jsfsn: but that's just on-the-fly adding those numbers
3829 2013-04-13 21:31:26 <sipa> paulo_: what version are you using?
3830 2013-04-13 21:31:33 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3831 2013-04-13 21:31:35 <jsfsn> Yha
3832 2013-04-13 21:31:38 sebicas has joined
3833 2013-04-13 21:31:41 xenesis_ has joined
3834 2013-04-13 21:31:41 <jsfsn> Is it slow by the way?
3835 2013-04-13 21:31:42 oru has joined
3836 2013-04-13 21:31:50 <paulo_> sipa: i'm not sure. I haven't used bitcoin in a while
3837 2013-04-13 21:31:52 <sipa> if you have a lot of transactions it becomes slow
3838 2013-04-13 21:31:59 <sipa> paulo_: help -> about bitcoin
3839 2013-04-13 21:32:23 <paulo_> I can't, it's an old windows install.
3840 2013-04-13 21:32:27 <sipa> so?
3841 2013-04-13 21:32:33 <paulo_> but thanks for answering my question.
3842 2013-04-13 21:32:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3843 2013-04-13 21:32:39 <jsfsn> I probably need to time that, it is the only way of checking for new deposits if users that I know of
3844 2013-04-13 21:32:41 <paulo_> It's a windows.old
3845 2013-04-13 21:32:59 <sipa> paulo_: you mean you need to reboot to get into it?
3846 2013-04-13 21:33:01 <jsfsn> Without listening to raw transactions that is
3847 2013-04-13 21:33:06 <paulo_> I reinstalled windows on this machine and bitcoin is on old partition.
3848 2013-04-13 21:33:10 <sipa> paulo_: ok, so you just don't have it installed anymore :)
3849 2013-04-13 21:33:10 i2pRelay has joined
3850 2013-04-13 21:33:20 xenesis__ has joined
3851 2013-04-13 21:33:27 <sipa> paulo_: 0.7 and earlier used a different database layout
3852 2013-04-13 21:33:37 <sipa> where the chainstate was implicitly stored in blkindex.dat
3853 2013-04-13 21:33:46 <paulo_> yeah. I'm not patient to download the the 8gb blockchain.
3854 2013-04-13 21:34:01 <sipa> you don't have it, it'll convert what you already have on disk
3855 2013-04-13 21:34:18 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3856 2013-04-13 21:34:30 <sipa> it's only 6.9 GiB also :)
3857 2013-04-13 21:35:04 xenesis has joined
3858 2013-04-13 21:35:20 <paulo_> the entire data folder is just 1.75 gb. suprised by how much it has grown.
3859 2013-04-13 21:35:20 <X-Scale> I liked the word 'only'. I can envision in one year from now someone saying "it's only 69 GiB" :)
3860 2013-04-13 21:35:49 <paulo_> I hope someone invents a bitcoin without all this storage needs.
3861 2013-04-13 21:35:57 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3862 2013-04-13 21:36:08 <jsfsn> paulo_: Good luck with that (:
3863 2013-04-13 21:36:17 <sipa> it's very easy to do :)
3864 2013-04-13 21:36:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3865 2013-04-13 21:36:28 Belxjander has joined
3866 2013-04-13 21:36:29 <paulo_> jsfsn: I don't think it's impossible, no one thought bitcoin was possible until satoshi.
3867 2013-04-13 21:36:44 xenesis_ has joined
3868 2013-04-13 21:36:48 <jsfsn> paulo_: Some did indeed think it was possible before satoshi
3869 2013-04-13 21:36:54 <sipa> 0.8 uses a database layout that _almost_ allows block pruning
3870 2013-04-13 21:36:56 ColinT has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3871 2013-04-13 21:37:21 <paulo_> jsfsn: yeah but never the blockchain.
3872 2013-04-13 21:37:31 <jsfsn> I don't know how important it is at the moment
3873 2013-04-13 21:37:36 xenesis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3874 2013-04-13 21:37:59 <jsfsn> How big is the smallest possible size of the blockchain for lightweight clients?
3875 2013-04-13 21:38:07 <sipa> jsfsn: define lightweight?
3876 2013-04-13 21:38:09 <jsfsn> If you only download the headers that is
3877 2013-04-13 21:38:17 <paulo_> headers?
3878 2013-04-13 21:38:18 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
3879 2013-04-13 21:38:19 <gribble> 231204
3880 2013-04-13 21:38:46 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,blocks]*80/1048576
3881 2013-04-13 21:38:47 <phantomcircuit> ;;calc 231204 * 80
3882 2013-04-13 21:38:48 <gribble> 17.639465332
3883 2013-04-13 21:38:49 <gribble> 18496320
3884 2013-04-13 21:38:53 <sipa> 17.63 MiB
3885 2013-04-13 21:39:02 <paulo_> what are headers?
3886 2013-04-13 21:39:10 <sipa> paulo_: block headers
3887 2013-04-13 21:39:13 michal_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3888 2013-04-13 21:39:17 <sipa> paulo_: without the transaction data
3889 2013-04-13 21:39:26 <sipa> but just the necessary part to validate the chain
3890 2013-04-13 21:39:36 sebicas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3891 2013-04-13 21:39:36 <sipa> (the chain itself, not whether the transactions in it are valid)
3892 2013-04-13 21:39:48 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3893 2013-04-13 21:39:49 michal_ has joined
3894 2013-04-13 21:39:56 <sipa> without around 300 MiB you could have a pruned fully validating node
3895 2013-04-13 21:40:05 sebicas has joined
3896 2013-04-13 21:40:21 <sipa> which can't serve historical blocks to new nodes, and can't rescan when you replace you wallet
3897 2013-04-13 21:40:33 <sipa> but has the same security as bitcoind now
3898 2013-04-13 21:40:37 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3899 2013-04-13 21:40:39 <paulo_> i guess the problem with that is, if everyone pruned, we would lose the block chain.
3900 2013-04-13 21:40:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3901 2013-04-13 21:40:43 <sipa> bingo
3902 2013-04-13 21:40:54 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3903 2013-04-13 21:40:56 <sipa> that's not really a worry, but it would at least make it harder to find
3904 2013-04-13 21:41:01 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3905 2013-04-13 21:41:13 i2pRelay has joined
3906 2013-04-13 21:41:16 kodkod has left ()
3907 2013-04-13 21:41:22 <sipa> so we'll need a mechanism for nodes to advertize "i don't have historical blocks!" to the network, and things like that
3908 2013-04-13 21:41:36 Diapolis has joined
3909 2013-04-13 21:42:03 Guest73210 has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
3910 2013-04-13 21:43:55 michal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3911 2013-04-13 21:43:55 cyphurnz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3912 2013-04-13 21:44:26 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3913 2013-04-13 21:44:26 cyphurnz has joined
3914 2013-04-13 21:47:55 PhantomSpark has joined
3915 2013-04-13 21:48:24 <sipa> TD: there was an O(n) step (in the number of tried IPs) in the peer selection code, which is now O(1)
3916 2013-04-13 21:48:32 <sipa> TD: you'll likely notice when you've connected to more
3917 2013-04-13 21:48:37 <TD> cool
3918 2013-04-13 21:48:43 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3919 2013-04-13 21:49:14 i2pRelay has joined
3920 2013-04-13 21:49:21 DunnoNL-M has joined
3921 2013-04-13 21:49:43 <jsfsn> Is it possible to build bitcoind without Qt?
3922 2013-04-13 21:50:04 <BlueMatt> yes
3923 2013-04-13 21:50:05 <sipa> jsfsn: stronger: it's impossible to build bitcoind with Qt
3924 2013-04-13 21:50:10 <BlueMatt> cd src; make -f makefile.unix
3925 2013-04-13 21:50:30 <sipa> (bitcoind with the Qt GUI is called bitcoin-qt)
3926 2013-04-13 21:50:37 <DunnoNL-M> Sipa: Okay. I think I've got it now. Send from accounts, receive on addresses. But how is it possible that the balance of the wallet doesn't match the sum of the balances of the accounts?
3927 2013-04-13 21:50:44 <jsfsn> ah, right
3928 2013-04-13 21:51:11 <sipa> DunnoNL-M: it should, except the way unconfirmed transactions are counted differs, afaik
3929 2013-04-13 21:51:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3930 2013-04-13 21:51:21 <jsfsn> thanks
3931 2013-04-13 21:51:28 PhantomSpark has quit (2!~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-105.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3932 2013-04-13 21:51:29 Belxjander has joined
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3938 2013-04-13 21:55:57 Autrui has quit ()
3939 2013-04-13 21:56:32 <DunnoNL-M> Sipa: It really doesn't. I cant make heads or tails of it. The sum is almost 3x the wallet balance and only one account should have funds.
3940 2013-04-13 21:56:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3941 2013-04-13 21:56:50 stretchwarren has joined
3942 2013-04-13 21:57:16 i2pRelay has joined
3943 2013-04-13 21:57:23 bonks has joined
3944 2013-04-13 21:57:29 <sipa> DunnoNL-M: that's very strange
3945 2013-04-13 21:57:43 <sipa> DunnoNL-M: what do 'getbalance' and 'getbalance "*"' return?
3946 2013-04-13 21:58:17 <DunnoNL-M> I cant try anymore because I left and I'm on my mobile now. I will try once I get back home.
3947 2013-04-13 21:58:17 * t7 is reading through script.cpp ... holy moly
3948 2013-04-13 21:58:33 <t7> what a clusterfuck
3949 2013-04-13 21:58:38 <DunnoNL-M> Is there a resource  where I can find other PHP prpgrammers?
3950 2013-04-13 21:58:43 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
3951 2013-04-13 21:59:04 ltrottier has quit (Quit: ltrottier)
3952 2013-04-13 21:59:05 <Luke-Jr> t7: any changes there are going to need heavy review
3953 2013-04-13 21:59:27 <t7> yeah :P
3954 2013-04-13 21:59:31 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3955 2013-04-13 22:02:53 Peacemaker420 has joined
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3958 2013-04-13 22:05:20 i2pRelay has joined
3959 2013-04-13 22:05:27 <Cryptrader> I'm trying to select a wallet method... something that doesn't rely on a website remaining open or my hard drive not crashing
3960 2013-04-13 22:05:35 paulo_ has joined
3961 2013-04-13 22:06:01 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3962 2013-04-13 22:06:04 <Cryptrader> I'm thinking there's got to be a way to use a pair of USB drives together any time you need to use it that will back up on eachother
3963 2013-04-13 22:06:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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3977 2013-04-13 22:12:48 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3978 2013-04-13 22:13:23 i2pRelay has joined
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3982 2013-04-13 22:13:53 paulo_ has joined
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3985 2013-04-13 22:17:17 <MC1984> btc guild still has a very large proportion of hashpower despite voluntary mitigation measures hmm
3986 2013-04-13 22:17:19 AlbertTuring has joined
3987 2013-04-13 22:17:43 <MC1984> enough to unchain 6 blocks half the time according to that calculator
3988 2013-04-13 22:18:52 Diapolis has joined
3989 2013-04-13 22:18:54 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3990 2013-04-13 22:18:54 <MC1984> if i ran a pool that big, id just come out and announce that if i get over 50% i WILL attack the blockchain, and stop transactions for as long as it takes for people to learn
3991 2013-04-13 22:19:29 <sipa> haha
3992 2013-04-13 22:19:58 t7 has joined
3993 2013-04-13 22:19:59 <MC1984> how else to bring it home to people?
3994 2013-04-13 22:20:24 <warren> It's hard to criticize pools when they and their miners are operating within the rules of the protocol and exercising capitalism.  Miners are the ones that need to be educated, but it seems they really don't care. =(
3995 2013-04-13 22:20:50 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3996 2013-04-13 22:21:02 <MC1984> they start to care quick sharp with my cunning plan
3997 2013-04-13 22:21:20 <BlueMatt> I still find it interesting that miners appear to not care in the slightest how much fee a pool charges
3998 2013-04-13 22:21:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3999 2013-04-13 22:21:22 i2pRelay has joined
4000 2013-04-13 22:21:28 Belxjander has joined
4001 2013-04-13 22:21:37 <MC1984> bitcoin has direct incentives and some very indirect ones, that people dont see to be able to think abstractly enough to grok
4002 2013-04-13 22:21:52 <MC1984> so make it temporary very real eh
4003 2013-04-13 22:22:32 <MC1984> BlueMatt how so
4004 2013-04-13 22:22:45 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: people don't shut up and multiply... they just hear "foo percent" and it sounds small.
4005 2013-04-13 22:23:04 <BlueMatt> MC1984: they gladly mine on pools with fees >> others
4006 2013-04-13 22:23:11 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea... :(
4007 2013-04-13 22:23:16 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4008 2013-04-13 22:23:30 <BlueMatt> even still, "mine here 3%" vs "mine here 1%" seems like a pretty clear choice to me
4009 2013-04-13 22:23:41 <gmaxwell> also, I've multiple times heard people argue that higher fee pools are better, there seems to be an implicit assumption of an efficient market.
4010 2013-04-13 22:23:44 <MC1984> well logically everyone should be on p2pool except asic guys
4011 2013-04-13 22:23:48 <MC1984> so i suppose thats true
4012 2013-04-13 22:23:53 <sipa> "shut up and multiply", that sounds like a modern version of "crescite et multiplicamini"
4013 2013-04-13 22:24:07 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, thats what I assumed :(
4014 2013-04-13 22:24:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: hah
4015 2013-04-13 22:25:35 celehner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4016 2013-04-13 22:25:38 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
4017 2013-04-13 22:25:53 oiram has joined
4018 2013-04-13 22:25:57 <skinnkavaj> sipa :D
4019 2013-04-13 22:26:44 <warren> MC1984: it's hardest to convince small miners to use p2pool because variance is high and they don't understand probability.  ASIC's would be easiest to convince to decentralize on p2pool if the software would only be fixed to allow it.
4020 2013-04-13 22:26:53 <gmaxwell> There are more complicated arguments too— it's very hard to tell if a pool isn't cheating you actively or won't run off with the balance. Dishonest pools have happened many times. This can create a preference for paying a higher known fee in the hopes that the high fees discourage dishonesty with unknown downside.
4021 2013-04-13 22:27:08 <MC1984> p2pool still gets payouts often enough right
4022 2013-04-13 22:27:19 <gmaxwell> warren: I expect that if p2pool were the largest by hashpower most of those issues would go away.
4023 2013-04-13 22:27:29 <MC1984> and everyone should know all you mine is yours to keep, an a little bit more sometimes
4024 2013-04-13 22:27:43 <Diablo-D3> warren: I dont see why its hard to convince small miners
4025 2013-04-13 22:27:47 <gmaxwell> warren: a _lot_ of people clearly base decisions on reasoning like "if its good why isn't it the biggest" or "if its good why doesn't it have fees"
4026 2013-04-13 22:27:54 santoscork has left ()
4027 2013-04-13 22:27:59 <Diablo-D3> we get a block roughly once a day
4028 2013-04-13 22:28:15 <MC1984> gmaxwell undr that logic they should just stick to paypal...
4029 2013-04-13 22:28:28 <Luke-Jr> I disagree with having a single big pool, even if it is decentralized
4030 2013-04-13 22:28:33 <Luke-Jr> more diversity is needed
4031 2013-04-13 22:28:33 <gmaxwell> if it were one of the biggest you'd get people more willing to say "I don't get it, but it must be okay because all these other people use it"
4032 2013-04-13 22:28:41 <Diablo-D3> luke, you're a troll, shut up
4033 2013-04-13 22:28:55 <Diablo-D3> everyone knows it now and you helped prove it
4034 2013-04-13 22:28:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: sure, there are lots of ways to construct p2pool like pools, however.
4035 2013-04-13 22:28:59 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4036 2013-04-13 22:29:03 celehner_ has joined
4037 2013-04-13 22:29:08 <MC1984> Luke-Jr p2poolisnt a pool really, not for the purposes of this discussion any way
4038 2013-04-13 22:29:11 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: please be civil to the folks in the channel
4039 2013-04-13 22:29:12 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't see p2p as a good thing
4040 2013-04-13 22:29:27 i2pRelay has joined
4041 2013-04-13 22:29:27 <warren> gmaxwell: the 8640 shares/day limits the number of math-challenged miners who would join it.  They need to see a steady stream from PPS to feel secure. =(
4042 2013-04-13 22:29:33 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: sure, when luke apologizes to me for +qing me for telling the truth about BFL
4043 2013-04-13 22:29:50 <Diablo-D3> luke is a shill for that fucking company, and he should be shunned for it
4044 2013-04-13 22:29:52 <gmaxwell> "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
4045 2013-04-13 22:30:10 <Luke-Jr> p2p is just inefficiency
4046 2013-04-13 22:30:10 <MC1984> ^
4047 2013-04-13 22:30:21 shesek has joined
4048 2013-04-13 22:30:30 moarrr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4049 2013-04-13 22:30:30 <MC1984> how can a bitcoin dev be shit talking p2p seriously
4050 2013-04-13 22:30:54 <sipa> well i agree that p2p typically (and certainly in this case) means inefficiency
4051 2013-04-13 22:31:09 <sipa> it does have other advantages though
4052 2013-04-13 22:31:11 <BlueMatt> holy fuck, Diablo-D3 finally got himself banned
4053 2013-04-13 22:31:17 Plornt has joined
4054 2013-04-13 22:31:19 <sipa> BlueMatt: not the first time, afaik
4055 2013-04-13 22:31:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it does, but for pools I don't think those advantages outweigh the costs
4056 2013-04-13 22:31:53 <sipa> Luke-Jr: depends on the scale, imho
4057 2013-04-13 22:32:21 X-Factor has joined
4058 2013-04-13 22:32:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: Id argue that instead of waiting until we get transaction volume with weird sigs down before making them nonstandard, we should move forward faster or clients/hardware/whatever that creates them could become more widespread
4059 2013-04-13 22:32:26 <warren> MC1984: Here's a behavioral experiment.  What would happen if the largest pool switched from PPS to POT during times where it exceeds 45%?  Statistically the miner earnings do not change, but many miners would FREAK OUT and switch because they think they are losing due to variance.
4060 2013-04-13 22:32:32 <Luke-Jr> I think it would be interesting to come up with a BIP protocol combining GBT and Stratum, and also capable of p2p usage
4061 2013-04-13 22:32:47 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Interestingly, just made that argument.
4062 2013-04-13 22:32:49 <gmaxwell> er I just
4063 2013-04-13 22:32:51 <Luke-Jr> so people with CPU time to spare can run it p2p, and those who are lazy can just run it decentralized-with-a-single-peer
4064 2013-04-13 22:32:55 <MC1984> what do those acronyms mean
4065 2013-04-13 22:33:08 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes, in 3 paragraphs...tl;dr
4066 2013-04-13 22:33:09 taha has joined
4067 2013-04-13 22:33:41 <MC1984> well what does POT mean
4068 2013-04-13 22:33:54 <sipa> BlueMatt, gmaxwell: can do; it's a 1 line change
4069 2013-04-13 22:34:18 Plornt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
4070 2013-04-13 22:34:19 * BlueMatt votes for non-std der being non-standard in 0.8.2
4071 2013-04-13 22:34:34 <warren> MC1984: PPS means miners are paid for every share no matter how low in difficulty.  Miners like that because they see a steady stream of income.  POT = Pay on Target.  Generally you get paid only for high difficulty shares.  Payouts are rare and it depends on luck.
4072 2013-04-13 22:34:53 <MC1984> right
4073 2013-04-13 22:35:05 <MC1984> i thought most/all traditional pools were diff 1
4074 2013-04-13 22:35:28 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: diff 1 isn't viable with ASICs
4075 2013-04-13 22:35:29 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: even with GBT magic unicorn tools that prevent dishonesty, gbt miners have the risk of the pool op cheating them unless they are true PPS. So one problem with your vision of the future is that the user gets some of the costs of p2p without the major selfish advantage.
4076 2013-04-13 22:35:48 <warren> MC1984: the point here is the earnings are equal between the two, but miners would still run away.
4077 2013-04-13 22:36:00 <MC1984> yeah
4078 2013-04-13 22:36:20 <MC1984> is deepbit still charging 10% :/
4079 2013-04-13 22:36:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4080 2013-04-13 22:36:28 Belxjander has joined
4081 2013-04-13 22:36:34 <sipa> are people still using deepbit?
4082 2013-04-13 22:37:03 <MC1984> the chart says they are low but im sure tyco decided to hide his power level a while ago
4083 2013-04-13 22:37:21 DunnoNL has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
4084 2013-04-13 22:37:37 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4085 2013-04-13 22:38:06 <Luke-Jr> yay conspiracy theories .-
4086 2013-04-13 22:38:06 i2pRelay has joined
4087 2013-04-13 22:38:08 <Luke-Jr> -.-
4088 2013-04-13 22:38:46 <MC1984> pfff i just remember deepbit going from like 30% to under 10 very suddenly last year
4089 2013-04-13 22:38:59 <MC1984> doesnt really mean anything now
4090 2013-04-13 22:39:00 <gmaxwell> MC1984: he did, but it seems that doing so killed his pool: too many people intentionally picking the biggest!
4091 2013-04-13 22:39:17 <MC1984> well lol to that
4092 2013-04-13 22:39:24 Peacemaker420 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4093 2013-04-13 22:39:42 <gmaxwell> (the reason he hid it wasn't anything nefarious or anything, he was getting insane pool hopping)
4094 2013-04-13 22:40:05 <MC1984> i wonder if that means people grok that bigger pool = less variance, or something as dumb as BIGGER = BETTAR
4095 2013-04-13 22:40:08 <gmaxwell> you'll note that all those buy-hashpower services have pretty much died since deepbit's decline.
4096 2013-04-13 22:40:14 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: pretty sure Deepbit died because Tycho stopped advertising on Google
4097 2013-04-13 22:40:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: nah, he stopped that a _long_ time before
4098 2013-04-13 22:40:36 <Luke-Jr> O.o
4099 2013-04-13 22:40:36 <gmaxwell> My p2pool ads on google never got much traffic.
4100 2013-04-13 22:40:49 <Luke-Jr> weird, thought it was the same time
4101 2013-04-13 22:41:08 Anduck has joined
4102 2013-04-13 22:41:09 <MC1984> you took out ads for p2pool?
4103 2013-04-13 22:41:16 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yep.
4104 2013-04-13 22:41:25 <MC1984> nice
4105 2013-04-13 22:42:35 <MC1984> having most/all people of p2pool would suck right now though
4106 2013-04-13 22:42:43 <MC1984> and for probably quite a while into the future
4107 2013-04-13 22:42:48 <warren> yes, the software needs improvement
4108 2013-04-13 22:42:56 <warren> documentation needs improvement ...
4109 2013-04-13 22:43:08 median^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4110 2013-04-13 22:43:08 <MC1984> it would be impossible to organise things like the may 15 thing
4111 2013-04-13 22:43:27 <b4tt3r135> hi, dumb question, where could I calculate/estimate the number of bitcoins that will have been produced by December 31st 2013
4112 2013-04-13 22:43:34 <warren> the UI needs to display PRIMARILY efficiency, with links to "how to fix your network latency" and other guides so people stop misunderstanding it.
4113 2013-04-13 22:43:36 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
4114 2013-04-13 22:43:37 <MC1984> pools also scratch a tribal itch in the same way seti@home teams did back in the day
4115 2013-04-13 22:43:40 <MC1984> of which i was a member
4116 2013-04-13 22:43:41 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: not impossible, no
4117 2013-04-13 22:44:02 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
4118 2013-04-13 22:44:07 median^ has joined
4119 2013-04-13 22:44:09 <MC1984> highly improbable then
4120 2013-04-13 22:44:18 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: we've already done it in a fully p2p way
4121 2013-04-13 22:44:29 <MC1984> cat herding, whatever you want to call it
4122 2013-04-13 22:44:44 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: BIP 34 automatically self-switched based on miner adoption
4123 2013-04-13 22:44:56 <Luke-Jr> the same code can be used for other switches
4124 2013-04-13 22:44:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4125 2013-04-13 22:45:15 <MC1984> oh yeah that was good
4126 2013-04-13 22:45:20 <Luke-Jr> although I guess that doesn't work quite the same for hardforks :x
4127 2013-04-13 22:45:20 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: though that can only measure miner buy-in not user/economic consent. So it's good for somethings, not others.
4128 2013-04-13 22:45:25 <MC1984> emergency situations youre SOL though
4129 2013-04-13 22:45:29 i2pRelay has joined
4130 2013-04-13 22:45:34 <gmaxwell> and yea, it's good for softforks... hardforks not so much.
4131 2013-04-13 22:46:23 <gmaxwell> b4tt3r135: the inflation schedule is 210000 blocks per four years, starting at 50 btc block and halving every 210000 blocks. The _exact_ numbers can't be predicted.
4132 2013-04-13 22:47:07 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hmm...thats a good idea, Ill go spend those damn emails that keep offering 100$ free ad credit for signing up on p2pool.info
4133 2013-04-13 22:47:52 dhrosa has quit (Quit: leaving)
4134 2013-04-13 22:48:07 flykoko has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4135 2013-04-13 22:48:34 flykoko has joined
4136 2013-04-13 22:48:37 <warren> p2pool.info isn't the best introduction to p2pool.  There really isn't a good single URL that is.
4137 2013-04-13 22:48:44 Peacemaker420 has joined
4138 2013-04-13 22:49:12 GordonG3kko has joined
4139 2013-04-13 22:49:23 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what are hybrid pubkeys? you don't mean forbidding using uncompressed+compressed for different inputs in a same txn, do you?
4140 2013-04-13 22:49:32 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no
4141 2013-04-13 22:49:42 <sipa> Luke-Jr: hybrid pubkeys use 0x06 or 0x07 as a prefix byte
4142 2013-04-13 22:49:43 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the most important thing right now would be making p2pool have good support for Avalon and BFL when it ships. If p2pool's hashrate goes up by a lot I think most else will sort itself out.
4143 2013-04-13 22:49:49 <bakingbread> can I somehow make confirmations faster? Both 0.0005 and 0.001 seems to take 1 hour for 6 confirms. what about 0.005 fee?:) or miners don't care about fee much.. they make more profit from emitting?
4144 2013-04-13 22:49:57 <Luke-Jr> sipa: some OpenSSL-proprietary thing?
4145 2013-04-13 22:49:58 <sipa> Luke-Jr: and they are pointless, as what follows is identical to an uncompressed one
4146 2013-04-13 22:50:07 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it's not part of the SEC standard, so i assume so
4147 2013-04-13 22:50:22 zz_qwertyoruiop is now known as qwertyoruiop
4148 2013-04-13 22:50:25 <sipa> bakingbread: 6 confirmations will always take ~hour
4149 2013-04-13 22:50:31 <gmaxwell> bakingbread: fees can influence when your txn gets its first confirmation but they don't speed up blocks beyond that.
4150 2013-04-13 22:50:37 <sipa> bakingbread: it's the time until you get 1 confirmation that is influenced by fees
4151 2013-04-13 22:50:38 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes, but unless I magically conjure an avalon in my dorm, I cant really help with that one
4152 2013-04-13 22:50:40 <Luke-Jr> sipa: btw, did you approach OpenSSL for adding a "strict" flag?
4153 2013-04-13 22:50:53 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no, they are not at fault
4154 2013-04-13 22:51:15 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not sayign they're at fault, just that other library consumers may wish to do strict verification as well
4155 2013-04-13 22:51:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4156 2013-04-13 22:51:26 <sipa> Luke-Jr: and in any case, i want the rules for valid keys to be encoded inside bitcoin and nowhere else
4157 2013-04-13 22:51:29 Belxjander has joined
4158 2013-04-13 22:51:31 <bakingbread> gmaxwell: sipa thx, got it
4159 2013-04-13 22:51:35 <warren> gmaxwell: Does "good support" include any of the proposed changes to reduce the appearance of high rejects?  No matter what the truth is, It's hard to convince most people that they are doing fine when the UI represents things in this way.
4160 2013-04-13 22:51:50 <sipa> Luke-Jr: note that the implementation doesn't depend on IsStandard() :)
4161 2013-04-13 22:51:50 <gmaxwell> warren: A UI patch is trivial.
4162 2013-04-13 22:52:21 <gmaxwell> warren: Make one. Call p2pool stales "bottom shares" or whatever. People can handle out the nomenclature.
4163 2013-04-13 22:52:28 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4164 2013-04-13 22:52:35 Belxjander has joined
4165 2013-04-13 22:52:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4166 2013-04-13 22:52:58 one_zero has joined
4167 2013-04-13 22:53:30 i2pRelay has joined
4168 2013-04-13 22:53:32 <warren> gmaxwell: in any case this would be an improvement, I agree.  I was referring more toward the other methods like, easy: 20 second intervals over 48 hours, or hard: parallel share chain merging.
4169 2013-04-13 22:54:56 mappum has joined
4170 2013-04-13 22:55:15 <gmaxwell> warren: none of that changes the UI incomparably. In any case it includes whatever forrestv thinks it needs to include. At a minimum, increasing the nonce size.
4171 2013-04-13 22:55:33 FreeWay has joined
4172 2013-04-13 22:56:13 Free-Way has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4173 2013-04-13 22:56:41 <gmaxwell> (by nonce size I mean the p2pool stratum nonce)
4174 2013-04-13 22:56:46 mastertheknife has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4175 2013-04-13 22:57:11 <warren> Right, it needs all of these changes, IMHO.
4176 2013-04-13 22:57:21 mastertheknife has joined
4177 2013-04-13 22:57:34 paulo_ has joined
4178 2013-04-13 22:57:46 <MC1984> is there any progress on getting avalons working with the p2pool, can they issue s/w updates
4179 2013-04-13 22:57:49 paulo_ has quit (Changing host)
4180 2013-04-13 22:57:49 paulo_ has joined
4181 2013-04-13 22:57:55 <MC1984> and surely bfl wont suck with it, assuming they ship
4182 2013-04-13 22:57:56 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: btw, p2pool didn't need changes for stratum really
4183 2013-04-13 22:58:06 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: could have used the lock time low bits :P
4184 2013-04-13 22:58:23 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: I'd assume BFL will suck as bad as Avalon does.
4185 2013-04-13 22:58:47 <warren> MC1984: a few days ago con posted that he fixed cgminer to have 100ms latency with Avalon.  I'm curious if people tested his claim.
4186 2013-04-13 22:58:59 <Luke-Jr> warren: interesting
4187 2013-04-13 22:59:18 * warren finds URL
4188 2013-04-13 22:59:21 ThomasV has joined
4189 2013-04-13 22:59:38 <Luke-Jr> I can probably get BFL down to 75-150ms, but it's not safe for me to try until I have a minirig to test on
4190 2013-04-13 22:59:58 <Luke-Jr> and that's assuming BFL doesn't need to use a certain workaround in their firmware
4191 2013-04-13 23:00:24 <MC1984> theyll loan you a minirig? thats the 30 kilodollar on right?
4192 2013-04-13 23:00:26 teff__ is now known as teff
4193 2013-04-13 23:00:33 <warren> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg1761478#msg1761478  "I've come to the conclusion that any latency issues that prevent it mining on p2pool should be resolved in the next cgminer release incorporating the changes I've committed to the code. The max latency for restart should be on the order of 100ms now which is fine even for 10s longpolls. Hopefully it will talk to p2pool better via stratum as well."
4194 2013-04-13 23:00:55 <gmaxwell> warren: the actual patch doesn't look like it does that at all.
4195 2013-04-13 23:00:56 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: I bought as many as they'd let me ;)
4196 2013-04-13 23:00:59 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4197 2013-04-13 23:01:05 andyh2 has joined
4198 2013-04-13 23:01:18 <warren> gmaxwell: I didn't say I believe him.  I'm just curious.
4199 2013-04-13 23:01:31 i2pRelay has joined
4200 2013-04-13 23:01:53 <MC1984> why would you fix them for p2pool though
4201 2013-04-13 23:02:05 <Luke-Jr> rather annoying how Avalon appeases those trolls instead of working with me :/
4202 2013-04-13 23:02:25 <Luke-Jr> seems xiangfu is just going to abandon the original software he wrote
4203 2013-04-13 23:02:55 vazakl has joined
4204 2013-04-13 23:03:00 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: I'm not inclined to do anything special for p2pool, but lower latency helps everyone
4205 2013-04-13 23:04:27 <warren> p2pool partially hurts itself by incentivizing individual miners to reduce their latency.  Typically doing so also reduces your hash rate.  If everyone reduces their latency at the expense of hash rate, then the pool as a whole gets less income and everyone loses.
4206 2013-04-13 23:04:37 DunnoNL-M has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4207 2013-04-13 23:04:46 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4208 2013-04-13 23:06:03 median^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4209 2013-04-13 23:06:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4210 2013-04-13 23:06:23 Guest13233 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4211 2013-04-13 23:06:28 Belxjander has joined
4212 2013-04-13 23:06:41 dvide has joined
4213 2013-04-13 23:06:55 <gmaxwell> warren: uhh.
4214 2013-04-13 23:07:01 Free-Way has joined
4215 2013-04-13 23:07:08 b4tt3r136 has joined
4216 2013-04-13 23:07:15 <gmaxwell> warren: you lose exactly as much as you adjust your hashrate.
4217 2013-04-13 23:07:22 FreeWay has quit (Read error: No route to host)
4218 2013-04-13 23:07:28 enquirer has joined
4219 2013-04-13 23:07:29 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: …
4220 2013-04-13 23:07:50 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4221 2013-04-13 23:07:57 Belxjander has joined
4222 2013-04-13 23:08:21 b4tt3r135 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
4223 2013-04-13 23:09:01 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4224 2013-04-13 23:09:05 <warren> gmaxwell: Individual greed wants to claim orphan+DOA hashes of other miners, thus an individual reduces their latency.  Everyone would be better off if everyone maximized their hash rate and had roughly equal orphan+DOA's, but the design doesn't encourage that.
4225 2013-04-13 23:09:19 b4tt3r136 is now known as b4tt3r135
4226 2013-04-13 23:09:45 [\\\] has joined
4227 2013-04-13 23:09:54 <gmaxwell> warren: I thought you went and agreed that lowering intensity didn't reduce doa enough to compensate for the difference in hashrate.
4228 2013-04-13 23:10:00 i2pRelay has joined
4229 2013-04-13 23:10:12 <gmaxwell> It certantly never did for me.
4230 2013-04-13 23:10:41 brendyn has joined
4231 2013-04-13 23:11:05 <gmaxwell> keep in mind that lowering latency also lowers the bitcoin orphan rate. P2pool's orphaning rate is a small fraction of eligius'.
4232 2013-04-13 23:11:25 <warren> That's expected, I guess.
4233 2013-04-13 23:12:01 <gmaxwell> so if the pool loses 1% hashrate, but gains 1% reduction in orphaning rate— that sounds like a pretty good tradeoff to me.
4234 2013-04-13 23:12:20 <warren> Is that the biggest reason for a lower orphan rate?
4235 2013-04-13 23:12:31 richcollins has joined
4236 2013-04-13 23:13:27 <warren> gmaxwell: it sounds like other pools should use pre-forwarded tx's and block forwarding too
4237 2013-04-13 23:13:51 ielo has joined
4238 2013-04-13 23:13:54 <warren> (that won't help decentralization, but it's a greedy thing to do)
4239 2013-04-13 23:13:54 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
4240 2013-04-13 23:14:17 median^ has joined
4241 2013-04-13 23:14:40 <Luke-Jr> warren: BFGMiner 3.0 will at least let the miner who found the block broadcast it
4242 2013-04-13 23:15:20 <gmaxwell> warren: other pools don't have a distribution network with hundreds/thousands of nodes.
4243 2013-04-13 23:15:37 * BlueMatt wonders if any pools will pick up on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/65497f4ee77166ba2a803c51893a4eb5a401fdb9 and use it to decrease their relay costs
4244 2013-04-13 23:15:52 <BlueMatt> oh, I guess it will only work on other nodes
4245 2013-04-13 23:15:57 <BlueMatt> well, oh well
4246 2013-04-13 23:16:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's a good idea, that means that nobody will use it unless you force it down their throat
4247 2013-04-13 23:16:35 skinnkavaj has quit (Changing host)
4248 2013-04-13 23:16:35 skinnkavaj has joined
4249 2013-04-13 23:17:04 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4250 2013-04-13 23:17:36 i2pRelay has joined
4251 2013-04-13 23:18:15 Free-Way has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4252 2013-04-13 23:18:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, though if pools were run by people with unlimited time, they would have implemented that to get blocks quicker
4253 2013-04-13 23:18:53 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: pfft. the income difference is small.
4254 2013-04-13 23:19:19 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hey, if it saves you one block...
4255 2013-04-13 23:19:51 <Luke-Jr> TD: so what if we assume Google is malicious, and lying about not saving IPs, and even uses the IPs to build up probabilistic associations with real people?
4256 2013-04-13 23:20:34 <TD> then i suppose we have already backdoored chrome, android, web search, bitcoinj etc so most people are already hosed.
4257 2013-04-13 23:21:07 <TD> but that isn't a credible belief. do you see how much crap governments give google over things like simplifying privacy policies or recording unencrypted radio traffic?
4258 2013-04-13 23:21:15 <Luke-Jr> TD: probably, I know Android certainly seems backdoored demanding I let it talk to Google to even firstboot, and not letting me do really anything else until I create an account
4259 2013-04-13 23:21:21 Belxjander has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4260 2013-04-13 23:21:26 <Luke-Jr> TD: BitcoinJ is obviously auditable
4261 2013-04-13 23:21:27 <TD> you don't have to create an account
4262 2013-04-13 23:21:28 Belxjander has joined
4263 2013-04-13 23:21:30 gruez has joined
4264 2013-04-13 23:21:49 <Luke-Jr> TD: I wasn't allowed to do anything else until I did
4265 2013-04-13 23:21:52 <TD> you can press cancel and use the phone just fine without any kind of account
4266 2013-04-13 23:21:58 <TD> yes, you were. maybe you didn't realise it. but it's quite possible.
4267 2013-04-13 23:21:59 <Luke-Jr> it's not a phone
4268 2013-04-13 23:22:04 <gruez> sipa: about your script, what am I supposed to put in "$TOP/bitcoin-build"?
4269 2013-04-13 23:22:05 <TD> tablet then
4270 2013-04-13 23:22:14 <gruez> just the git file, or a cloned repository?
4271 2013-04-13 23:22:32 <sipa> gruez: a repository with whatever you like to build from
4272 2013-04-13 23:22:41 <Luke-Jr> TD: I *still* haven't figured out how to replace Google's stuff with my own email and IM
4273 2013-04-13 23:22:51 <TD> on android?
4274 2013-04-13 23:22:53 <Luke-Jr> yes
4275 2013-04-13 23:23:01 <devrandom> k9mail and Gibberbot FTW
4276 2013-04-13 23:23:06 <TD> there's an email app that speaks imap/pop
4277 2013-04-13 23:23:10 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4278 2013-04-13 23:23:13 <gruez> sipa: so this is correct?
4279 2013-04-13 23:23:14 <gruez> build@ubuntu:~$ mkdir bitcoin-build
4280 2013-04-13 23:23:17 <HM2> AOSP comes without the Google apps
4281 2013-04-13 23:23:17 <gruez> build@ubuntu:~$ cd bitcoin-build
4282 2013-04-13 23:23:21 <gruez> build@ubuntu:~/bitcoin-build$ git clone git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
4283 2013-04-13 23:23:45 <sipa> no, that puts it in ~/bitcoin-build/bitcoin
4284 2013-04-13 23:23:53 <Luke-Jr> TD: more importantly, how can I root this thing without Google's non-free Android SDK? :/
4285 2013-04-13 23:24:02 sydna has joined
4286 2013-04-13 23:24:09 <TD> fastboot is open source
4287 2013-04-13 23:24:22 Ogig has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4288 2013-04-13 23:24:27 <sydna> so somebody keeps spamming r/bitcoin with a link to a java exploit, right?
4289 2013-04-13 23:24:29 * Luke-Jr googles it :P
4290 2013-04-13 23:24:50 <Luke-Jr> TD: can I install fastboot without the non-free stuff?
4291 2013-04-13 23:24:55 <HM2> an auditable open stack on a phone is a bit of a laugh anyway, since practically everything driver wise is a blob and there's so much proprietary crap in phones on the firmware side
4292 2013-04-13 23:25:04 <TD> you can compile the entire sdk yourself from source. it's not "non free"
4293 2013-04-13 23:25:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4294 2013-04-13 23:25:20 <Luke-Jr> TD: the license terms are non-free
4295 2013-04-13 23:25:32 <gruez> sipa: does the script work without gitian.sigs?
4296 2013-04-13 23:25:37 <devrandom> Luke-Jr: FYI https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/31
4297 2013-04-13 23:25:38 i2pRelay has joined
4298 2013-04-13 23:25:38 <gruez> I have no idea where to get it from
4299 2013-04-13 23:25:57 <sipa> gruez: github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs
4300 2013-04-13 23:25:59 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: that looks wrong
4301 2013-04-13 23:26:02 cads has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4302 2013-04-13 23:26:06 nova90 has joined
4303 2013-04-13 23:26:15 <devrandom> blame sipa :-P
4304 2013-04-13 23:26:17 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: you need qemu-system-x86_64 for 64-bit kernels
4305 2013-04-13 23:26:22 <MC1984> last thing i read about google is how someone leaked a doc about them fighting a NSL
4306 2013-04-13 23:26:26 <Luke-Jr> qemu-system-i386 will be an emulator
4307 2013-04-13 23:26:36 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ^
4308 2013-04-13 23:27:04 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you mean you can use qemu-system-x86_64 for 32-bit envs?
4309 2013-04-13 23:27:17 roya21 has joined
4310 2013-04-13 23:27:19 <Luke-Jr> sipa: yes, you have to for KVM accel (with a 64-bit kernel)
4311 2013-04-13 23:27:23 nova907767 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4312 2013-04-13 23:27:30 <Luke-Jr> otoh, you need qemu-system-i386 if your kernel is 32-bit
4313 2013-04-13 23:27:37 <sipa> bleh
4314 2013-04-13 23:27:40 <Luke-Jr> qemu-system-$(uname -m) should work
4315 2013-04-13 23:27:42 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4316 2013-04-13 23:28:04 <devrandom> thanks for catching that
4317 2013-04-13 23:28:09 <sipa> or just qemu?
4318 2013-04-13 23:28:22 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no such thing on Gentoo at least
4319 2013-04-13 23:28:41 <devrandom> does -enable-kvm do anything useful?
4320 2013-04-13 23:28:44 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4321 2013-04-13 23:29:07 graingert_ is now known as graingert
4322 2013-04-13 23:29:53 <Luke-Jr> hmm, maybe they changed it
4323 2013-04-13 23:29:59 <Luke-Jr> my qemu-system-i386 is reporting KVM enabled now
4324 2013-04-13 23:30:12 osmosis has joined
4325 2013-04-13 23:30:32 <Luke-Jr> so nevermind that I guess
4326 2013-04-13 23:30:45 <Luke-Jr> sipa
4327 2013-04-13 23:30:48 <warren> gmaxwell: Is there any way p2pool can detect bufferbloat-induced latency and tell the user "go to http://.... to learn how to fix this"?
4328 2013-04-13 23:30:53 <warren> could*
4329 2013-04-13 23:31:00 <sydna> urgh
4330 2013-04-13 23:31:16 <sydna> the person spamming the java exploit bought the damn thing from hackforums
4331 2013-04-13 23:31:17 bibbybob has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4332 2013-04-13 23:31:28 AlbertTuring has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
4333 2013-04-13 23:31:33 <sydna> there's even a support thread for the basted thing
4334 2013-04-13 23:31:43 <gruez> sipa: I've configured gitian like so:
4335 2013-04-13 23:31:44 <gruez> http://pastie.org/pastes/7493083/text?key=fbyf49t6taorrpl7qfsugq
4336 2013-04-13 23:31:50 <gruez> and I tried building, but I got an error
4337 2013-04-13 23:32:31 <sipa> gruez: first of all, no need to sudo!
4338 2013-04-13 23:32:38 rancor60_ has joined
4339 2013-04-13 23:32:43 <sipa> gruez: and you need to specify what to build
4340 2013-04-13 23:32:49 <sipa> commit id, or tagname
4341 2013-04-13 23:32:53 <gruez> oh
4342 2013-04-13 23:32:55 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4343 2013-04-13 23:32:56 <sipa> ./bitcoin-build.sh v0.8.1
4344 2013-04-13 23:32:59 <sipa> for example
4345 2013-04-13 23:33:07 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4346 2013-04-13 23:33:21 <Luke-Jr> bitcoin-build.sh?
4347 2013-04-13 23:33:39 i2pRelay has joined
4348 2013-04-13 23:34:05 <sipa> Luke-Jr: my build script
4349 2013-04-13 23:34:20 <sipa> Luke-Jr: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/bitcoin-build.sh.txt
4350 2013-04-13 23:34:34 <gruez> http://pastie.org/pastes/7493101/text?key=i0kmytx0bltjzwje9vmgg
4351 2013-04-13 23:34:38 <gruez> :(
4352 2013-04-13 23:35:11 taha has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4353 2013-04-13 23:35:45 <sipa> gruez: you probably did some previous steps as root?
4354 2013-04-13 23:36:00 <sipa> there's no need for that, except for creating the base image
4355 2013-04-13 23:36:07 <gruez> sipa: how do I check?
4356 2013-04-13 23:36:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ah, I was hoping it somehow smart-fetched files :P
4357 2013-04-13 23:36:09 celehner_ is now known as celehner
4358 2013-04-13 23:36:17 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it does?
4359 2013-04-13 23:36:22 <sydna> if anyone was curious, the java malware emails your wallet.dat to the owner. who conveniently left his real email address in the malicious .jar.
4360 2013-04-13 23:36:26 <sipa> Luke-Jr: well, at least what i call smart
4361 2013-04-13 23:36:42 <Luke-Jr> I don't see any fetching?
4362 2013-04-13 23:36:43 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it uses a git directory, fetches there, and uses whatever it finds
4363 2013-04-13 23:37:01 <gruez> anyone want to vnc and check my configuration?
4364 2013-04-13 23:37:08 <gruez> it's in a vmware machine
4365 2013-04-13 23:37:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I mean dependencies ;)
4366 2013-04-13 23:37:12 <sipa> gruez: just remove the stuff you did as root
4367 2013-04-13 23:37:40 <gruez> sipa: uh..
4368 2013-04-13 23:37:42 <gruez> change ownership?
4369 2013-04-13 23:37:47 <sipa> yes, also fine
4370 2013-04-13 23:37:57 <sipa> but it's easier to redo i think :D
4371 2013-04-13 23:38:14 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you mean boost/qt/...?
4372 2013-04-13 23:38:19 <Luke-Jr> yes
4373 2013-04-13 23:38:26 <sipa> meh
4374 2013-04-13 23:38:29 <sipa> patches welcome :p
4375 2013-04-13 23:39:21 Belxjander has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4376 2013-04-13 23:39:51 <gruez> sipa: so
4377 2013-04-13 23:39:52 <gruez> git clone git://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git
4378 2013-04-13 23:39:55 <gruez> bin/make-base-vm
4379 2013-04-13 23:39:59 <gruez> bin/make-base-vm --arch i386
4380 2013-04-13 23:40:05 <sipa> don't redo making the image!
4381 2013-04-13 23:40:42 <gruez> aww
4382 2013-04-13 23:41:02 <sipa> i mean just the git directories
4383 2013-04-13 23:41:03 jsfsn has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
4384 2013-04-13 23:41:11 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4385 2013-04-13 23:41:14 <sipa> gruez: sorry
4386 2013-04-13 23:41:21 Peacemaker420 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4387 2013-04-13 23:41:37 [\\\] has joined
4388 2013-04-13 23:41:43 i2pRelay has joined
4389 2013-04-13 23:41:45 <gruez> if anyone wants to help, I got vnc setup at 207.112.118.33:5900
4390 2013-04-13 23:41:52 <gruez> query for password
4391 2013-04-13 23:43:20 <sipa> gruez: no need, i think you're doing fine, except don't do it as two different users
4392 2013-04-13 23:43:44 ielo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4393 2013-04-13 23:44:19 <Luke-Jr> TD: fwiw, I did find adb and fastboot packages in a chinese overlay O.o
4394 2013-04-13 23:44:38 <TD> they're in the android git repos
4395 2013-04-13 23:44:41 <TD> i forgot which one
4396 2013-04-13 23:44:53 <Luke-Jr> hmm
4397 2013-04-13 23:45:19 <Luke-Jr> TD: I guess I need to connect the Nexus7 to my PC somehow, but I recall some instructions saying to only use the bundled USB charger with it :|
4398 2013-04-13 23:45:29 <Luke-Jr> I can't stop my PC from powering it AFAIK
4399 2013-04-13 23:45:52 obiat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4400 2013-04-13 23:45:53 <TD> huh?
4401 2013-04-13 23:46:02 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
4402 2013-04-13 23:46:08 <TD> you're afraid of plugging a n7 into a computer?
4403 2013-04-13 23:46:21 <Luke-Jr> TD: dunno, that's what the manual said :x
4404 2013-04-13 23:46:32 <TD> i think you can assume it's safe to plug it into a computer
4405 2013-04-13 23:46:42 KoSoVaR has joined
4406 2013-04-13 23:46:50 <TD> unless this is some kind of strange computer that powers its USB ports with tonal quantities of volts :)
4407 2013-04-13 23:46:59 <sipa> huh
4408 2013-04-13 23:47:11 <sipa> USB is USB...
4409 2013-04-13 23:47:19 <Luke-Jr> :D
4410 2013-04-13 23:47:19 <MC1984> lol
4411 2013-04-13 23:47:31 <sipa> maybe the provided charger allows using more power
4412 2013-04-13 23:47:32 <Luke-Jr> hmm, "error: device not found" :|
4413 2013-04-13 23:47:51 <joeykrim> n7 charges faster thru wall charger than computer, amperage diff
4414 2013-04-13 23:48:39 DunnoNL has joined
4415 2013-04-13 23:49:00 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: wait...you read the manuals??!
4416 2013-04-13 23:49:13 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4417 2013-04-13 23:49:25 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: when I'm on a 3 hour flight and can't use the device because it demands talking to google before it firstboots…
4418 2013-04-13 23:49:35 <joeykrim> Luke-Jr, on linux? sometimes have to restart adb. adb kill-server and then adb start-server
4419 2013-04-13 23:49:50 i2pRelay has joined
4420 2013-04-13 23:49:50 <gruez> sipa: so I clone bitcoin.git
4421 2013-04-13 23:49:52 <joeykrim> also have to enable usb debugging on the n7
4422 2013-04-13 23:49:57 <gruez> then rename the folder to bitcoin-build
4423 2013-04-13 23:50:18 <sipa> gruez: or git clone URL bitcoin-build
4424 2013-04-13 23:50:27 <sipa> but yes
4425 2013-04-13 23:50:45 lmacken has quit (Quit: leaving)
4426 2013-04-13 23:50:58 <gruez> and I do the same with sigs
4427 2013-04-13 23:51:08 <sipa> indeed
4428 2013-04-13 23:52:03 <Cryptrader> I'm trying to select a wallet method... something that doesn't rely on a website remaining open or my hard drive not crashing
4429 2013-04-13 23:52:06 <Cryptrader> I'm thinking there's got to be a way to use a pair of USB drives together any time you need to use it that will back up on eachother
4430 2013-04-13 23:52:38 <Cryptrader> would I just have to do it manually or is there some way to do this I dont know about?
4431 2013-04-13 23:53:25 <Luke-Jr> …
4432 2013-04-13 23:53:31 <Luke-Jr> TD: did I just destroy 0.30 BTC? :|
4433 2013-04-13 23:53:44 <sipa> ?
4434 2013-04-13 23:53:48 <TD> what did you do?
4435 2013-04-13 23:53:48 <Luke-Jr> rooting android
4436 2013-04-13 23:53:52 Bregign has joined
4437 2013-04-13 23:53:55 blackreign has quit (Disconnected by services)
4438 2013-04-13 23:53:56 Bregign is now known as Blackreign
4439 2013-04-13 23:54:03 <TD> you DID read the warnings that go along with that, right?
4440 2013-04-13 23:54:10 <TD> you know. the bit where it says it's going to wipe the device?
4441 2013-04-13 23:54:11 <joeykrim> unlocked the bootloader and wiped your /data ?
4442 2013-04-13 23:54:12 <Luke-Jr> yes
4443 2013-04-13 23:54:27 <TD> and .. no backups of the keys on the device?
4444 2013-04-13 23:54:36 <gruez> sipa: got the same error as before
4445 2013-04-13 23:54:39 <Luke-Jr> not unless I can get at the raw flash I guess?
4446 2013-04-13 23:54:43 <sipa> gruez: paste?
4447 2013-04-13 23:54:48 <TD> then i guess it's gone :(
4448 2013-04-13 23:54:54 <Luke-Jr> TD: is it encrypted?
4449 2013-04-13 23:54:58 <gruez> sipa: http://pastie.org/pastes/7493198/text?key=iki56nxkteoqinw6zhsrq
4450 2013-04-13 23:55:14 <Luke-Jr> TD: I presume it didn't do a secure-erase?
4451 2013-04-13 23:55:24 masterth1knife has joined
4452 2013-04-13 23:55:34 <TD> the wallets are not encrypted but i have no idea if it's a secure erase or not. i mean, the feature is there for security. so i'd hope it is.
4453 2013-04-13 23:55:40 <TD> but i don't actually know for sure.
4454 2013-04-13 23:55:41 osmosis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4455 2013-04-13 23:55:59 <TD> if it wasn't done that way then obviously anyone who gets physical access to the device could grab all the data off it
4456 2013-04-13 23:55:59 <Luke-Jr> TD: any idea if I can access the raw flash at that fastboot menu thing?
4457 2013-04-13 23:56:05 <sipa> gruez: what command did you use to clone bitcoin-build
4458 2013-04-13 23:56:14 mastertheknife has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
4459 2013-04-13 23:56:25 <gruez> sipa: build@ubuntu:~/build$ git clone git://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git
4460 2013-04-13 23:56:47 <TD> i don't think raw access to flash is possible.
4461 2013-04-13 23:56:52 <TD> but i'm not sure
4462 2013-04-13 23:56:56 <sipa> gruez: not gitian builder, bitcoin-build
4463 2013-04-13 23:57:15 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4464 2013-04-13 23:57:30 <gruez> sipa: build@ubuntu:~/build$ git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
4465 2013-04-13 23:57:34 bretolius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4466 2013-04-13 23:57:37 <gruez> then i renamed the folder to bitcoin-build
4467 2013-04-13 23:57:45 <Luke-Jr> TD: do you know a way to dump the flash before firstbooting again?
4468 2013-04-13 23:57:48 i2pRelay has joined
4469 2013-04-13 23:57:59 <sipa> gruez: sounds good... what do you see inside that directory?
4470 2013-04-13 23:58:03 <TD> i do not. N7 talks MTP to the host
4471 2013-04-13 23:58:06 <TD> not raw block access
4472 2013-04-13 23:58:25 <joeykrim> mtp is after its booted into android mode, not while in bootloader, i think
4473 2013-04-13 23:58:28 <sipa> gruez: thanks for your patience, though!
4474 2013-04-13 23:59:01 <gruez> build@ubuntu:~/build/bitcoin-build$ ls
4475 2013-04-13 23:59:06 <TD> ok
4476 2013-04-13 23:59:06 <gruez> bitcoin-qt.pro  contrib  COPYING  doc  INSTALL  README.md  share  src
4477 2013-04-13 23:59:09 <TD> could be
4478 2013-04-13 23:59:11 <TD> then i don't know
4479 2013-04-13 23:59:16 <joeykrim> ./fastboot shows commands .. dont see much about dumping partitions