1 2013-04-15 00:00:07 teff has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2 2013-04-15 00:00:13 <ProfMac> I'm digging through the rpc commands and trying to understand what I see. The other day gmaxwell told someone to get raw transactions on txid to see inputs, then get raw transactions of each of those to get their outputs. I tried it then and thought I understood what was going on. Today, I am trying to code this into a php page, and I think I don't know anything at all.
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7 2013-04-15 00:04:21 <saracen> Running bitcoind with -testnet, will it automatically use a different default datadir folder, or should I specifically select an alternative to avoid it clashing with the mainnet blockchain (or does that not happen, anyway?)?
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9 2013-04-15 00:05:48 <kadoban> saracen: it uses the testnet3 directory in your normal one. so it won't conflict
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13 2013-04-15 00:06:59 <saracen> kadoban: Thank you :)
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15 2013-04-15 00:10:42 <sipa> unless you specify -datadir explicitly
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24 2013-04-15 00:17:08 <evan3> You should be able to send money, then add a transaction fee to it later if it's not processing fast enough. Is there a way to do that?
25 2013-04-15 00:17:35 <BlueMatt> no
26 2013-04-15 00:17:45 <BlueMatt> working on it though
27 2013-04-15 00:18:00 <Luke-Jr> evan3: if you hack your client
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29 2013-04-15 00:18:14 <BlueMatt> have to hack miners' clients
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31 2013-04-15 00:18:20 <BlueMatt> or find a miner that supports replacement
32 2013-04-15 00:18:41 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: multiple support dependencies
33 2013-04-15 00:18:46 <gmaxwell> bytecoin: tables schmmables, (c>>6)*9+(c-'0')&15 :P
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35 2013-04-15 00:19:05 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: you mean child-pays-for-parent?
36 2013-04-15 00:19:15 <Luke-Jr> yes
37 2013-04-15 00:19:16 <evan3> oh cool thanks
38 2013-04-15 00:19:31 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: well you cant use that unless you are the one receiving the tx, not sending
39 2013-04-15 00:19:38 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: change
40 2013-04-15 00:20:11 <BlueMatt> dont always have change ;)
41 2013-04-15 00:20:20 <Luke-Jr> you could
42 2013-04-15 00:20:21 <BlueMatt> but, anyway
43 2013-04-15 00:20:48 <sipa> Luke-Jr: my dnsseed has been running very stably for some time now, it seems the cpu issue is fixed
44 2013-04-15 00:21:06 <Luke-Jr> sipa: mine seems to be as well
45 2013-04-15 00:21:14 <sipa> you're running latest?
46 2013-04-15 00:21:37 <sipa> i added a commit to check heights as well, but it's just a very simple static check now
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48 2013-04-15 00:21:52 <sipa> perhaps you prefer not having that, as it may skew statistics about nodes
49 2013-04-15 00:21:56 <Luke-Jr> sipa: whenever you last told me to update
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51 2013-04-15 00:22:19 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't even include them in stats? :<
52 2013-04-15 00:22:32 <gp5st> is it possible to write a transaction such that "(key B may redeem this transaction) OR (key A may redeem this transaction AFTER n blocks from this tx)"
53 2013-04-15 00:22:52 <sipa> gp5st: no
54 2013-04-15 00:22:57 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: no, you need two transactions
55 2013-04-15 00:22:57 <BlueMatt> not in 1 txn
56 2013-04-15 00:23:15 <gp5st> i'm fine with that? how does it work with 2 tx?
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60 2013-04-15 00:23:27 <gp5st> sorry for the first ?
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62 2013-04-15 00:23:42 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: sign both, but set locktime on the second
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64 2013-04-15 00:24:22 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: and then hope Key A doesn't work out a deal with miners to boycott Key A
65 2013-04-15 00:24:23 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: and then hope Key A doesn't work out a deal with miners to boycott Key B
66 2013-04-15 00:24:25 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i can either ban them (in which case they are dropped from the list entirely, and may enter again later after some time), or mark them as bad (in which case the low-heights becomes reflected as lower reach%)
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68 2013-04-15 00:24:34 <sipa> Luke-Jr: neither is optimal, for now it's the first
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70 2013-04-15 00:25:16 <Luke-Jr> sipa: why can't you leave them on the list?
71 2013-04-15 00:25:19 <gp5st> so i have one tx that can be redeemed by B for x btc. What is the contents of the second?
72 2013-04-15 00:25:41 <gp5st> or maybe i need to read more about locktime
73 2013-04-15 00:25:45 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i can, but then it means they are considered unreachable
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75 2013-04-15 00:26:15 <sipa> i should rewrite that part too one day :)
76 2013-04-15 00:26:27 <Luke-Jr> sipa: why?
77 2013-04-15 00:26:51 <Luke-Jr> why can't they be considered reachable?
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79 2013-04-15 00:27:10 <sipa> well there's just 'good' and 'bad' as result of an attempt
80 2013-04-15 00:27:35 <sipa> things have just become more complex than originall intended
81 2013-04-15 00:27:43 <gp5st> oh, wait, can 2 tx have the same inputs?
82 2013-04-15 00:27:47 <sipa> no
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84 2013-04-15 00:28:04 <gp5st> hmm, ok, so that's now how this works:-\
85 2013-04-15 00:28:09 <BlueMatt> gp5st: yes (though obviously not both on the chain)
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88 2013-04-15 00:29:01 <gruez> sipa: your additional wait time fix worked
89 2013-04-15 00:29:06 <gruez> it's building now
90 2013-04-15 00:29:19 <sipa> gruez: from when is your gitian-builder?
91 2013-04-15 00:29:28 <gruez> sipa: latest?
92 2013-04-15 00:29:33 <gruez> downloaded today
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97 2013-04-15 00:30:26 <sipa> gruez: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/32
98 2013-04-15 00:30:43 <sipa> gruez: apparently my fix for ubuntu raring yesterday actually disabled kvm entirely
99 2013-04-15 00:30:54 <gruez> wait what?
100 2013-04-15 00:30:57 <gruez> it's still running
101 2013-04-15 00:31:04 <gruez> and it's currently installing packages
102 2013-04-15 00:31:06 <sipa> veeeery slowly, probably :)
103 2013-04-15 00:31:21 <gruez> so i should apply the fix?
104 2013-04-15 00:31:24 <gruez> and rerun?
105 2013-04-15 00:31:42 <sipa> perhaps it's default on your system, but yes, try
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107 2013-04-15 00:31:55 <sipa> it's just adding -enable-kvm on the commandline in start-target
108 2013-04-15 00:32:07 <gruez> sipa: can I just control-c, in the middle of the build?
109 2013-04-15 00:32:10 <sipa> yes
110 2013-04-15 00:32:55 <evan3> How does the network decide to confirm a transaction?
111 2013-04-15 00:33:09 <sipa> by miners accepting your transaction in a block
112 2013-04-15 00:33:38 <evan3> sipa, So every 10 minutes is a possible confirmation for my transaction?
113 2013-04-15 00:34:03 <kadoban> evan3: well, every second is a possbile confirmation, but blocks come on average every 10 minutes
114 2013-04-15 00:34:13 <sipa> evan3: the first confirmation is when your transaction is included in the chain (which can take anywhere between minutes and a day or so)
115 2013-04-15 00:34:28 <sipa> evan3: after that, every new block is an additional confirmation
116 2013-04-15 00:34:48 <evan3> sipa, I see. thanks
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122 2013-04-15 00:38:57 <sipa> Luke-Jr: just did a succesful gitian build of 0.8.1 that matches with the previous sigs (and gavin's)
123 2013-04-15 00:39:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: great - anything else to do before stable?
124 2013-04-15 00:39:33 <sipa> strange enough, qemu-system-i386 runs with 4 threads, qemu-system-x86_64 with only one
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126 2013-04-15 00:39:46 <Luke-Jr> if not, I'll tag rc3 just to get a few more things in..
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133 2013-04-15 00:44:09 <ProfMac> where can I find the hex string that I need for decoderawtransaction?
134 2013-04-15 00:44:20 <Luke-Jr> getrawtransaction?
135 2013-04-15 00:44:23 <saracen> Apparently, I don't understand the move command. If I move 40 btc from account A to account B, why does account A then display a balance of -40, rather than 0?
136 2013-04-15 00:44:45 <sipa> saracen: if there was 0 in account A before the move, it will have -40 after...
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138 2013-04-15 00:45:14 <saracen> But it had 40. Unless, confirmations need to be made before it *really* contains 40?
139 2013-04-15 00:45:30 <sipa> you can choose the number of confirmations
140 2013-04-15 00:45:46 <sipa> before counting a credit
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143 2013-04-15 00:46:25 <saracen> Well, I thought the move command would handle that for me. By default, does it require 1 confirmation? I did it at 0, expecting an error to be returned
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147 2013-04-15 00:46:58 <sipa> move doesn't have anything to do with confirmations... it's just -X in one account and +X in another
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149 2013-04-15 00:47:22 <ProfMac> Luke-Jr: yep. I'm sure I tried it several times earlier today & it failed. shrug. Thanks.
150 2013-04-15 00:47:35 <saracen> On the wiki, move has: [minconf=1]
151 2013-04-15 00:47:35 <sipa> it's the actual transactions that credit accounts that matter, and getreceivedbyaccount for example takes an argument (afaik) to choose the minimum number of confirmations before counting a credit
152 2013-04-15 00:47:37 <saracen> Is this incorrect?
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154 2013-04-15 00:47:51 <sipa> oh wiki, then it's probably outdated :)
155 2013-04-15 00:47:56 <sipa> let me check
156 2013-04-15 00:48:19 <sipa> indeed
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158 2013-04-15 00:48:40 <sipa> the minconf parameter to move is legacy and ignored now
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160 2013-04-15 00:48:47 <saracen> Ah, :)
161 2013-04-15 00:49:07 <sipa> it existed once, because it tried to avoid negative balances
162 2013-04-15 00:49:24 <sipa> which means it needed to know how to compute the balances, which depends on minconf
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164 2013-04-15 00:49:48 <saracen> Ok, so I can avoid a negative balanece if I first use getbalance (minconf=1, for example), to make sure the account has that balance, correct?
165 2013-04-15 00:49:59 <sipa> yes
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168 2013-04-15 00:50:24 <sipa> be prepared to deal with reorganisations that change transactions, though
169 2013-04-15 00:50:26 <saracen> Ok, as for the current negative. Will that ever disappear? I'm wondering whether it will work itself out after 5 confirmations or something
170 2013-04-15 00:50:50 <sipa> try listing with minconf=0 ?
171 2013-04-15 00:51:05 <sipa> the number of confirmations of a transaction can (very rarely) decrease, so that means that account balances can drop
172 2013-04-15 00:52:04 <NewToBTC> im a new merchant looking to use MTgox's API, having trouble finding documents that are not for the v0. anyone willing help get me started? im familiar with php, and im just trying to schedul a monthly withdrawl.
173 2013-04-15 00:52:24 <sipa> NewToBTC: #mtgox ?
174 2013-04-15 00:52:27 <saracen> sipa: I see. Thank you
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184 2013-04-15 00:59:17 <ProfMac> this fails --> getrawtransaction 87da9aba665bc953a822090c43a51569f4501692ccd13a60bc1fbbcdbba2c175
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187 2013-04-15 01:01:43 <sipa> ProfMac: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/9147/getrawtransaction-error-code-5
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189 2013-04-15 01:02:02 <alex1> hi, having played with noobcoin wow that code building for btc really something smart :D
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191 2013-04-15 01:06:04 <ProfMac> sipa: thanks. :-( I thought I used txindex=1 when I started the 0.8 client the first time, in bitcoin.conf, then took it out later.
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208 2013-04-15 01:17:41 LorenzoMoney has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
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211 2013-04-15 01:18:53 <alex1> :)
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256 2013-04-15 02:00:11 <ProfMac> Is there a public RPC access client that has all the TX indices in place?
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272 2013-04-15 02:17:49 <BladeMcCool> if sha2 hashes of data are distributed pretty random, then is there anything really wrong with using the last few bytes of a block hashes as a random number source?
273 2013-04-15 02:20:27 <deego> BladeMcCool: But that's public knowledge?
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279 2013-04-15 02:23:46 <deego> BladeMcCool: That is, given 5 or 6 such random numbers in your sequence, I can look up the blockchain, find where it fits, and "predict" the next random number.. (?)
280 2013-04-15 02:24:58 <BladeMcCool> deego: yup thats ok though just need a proveably-fair random number to act on a data set with. thinking the whole pre-shared-daily-secret-hashes and hashing something with those to pull bytes out for a random number might be overblown.
281 2013-04-15 02:26:16 <deego> BladeMcCool: Ah, got you
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287 2013-04-15 02:31:33 <vazakl> what secret / behind-the-scenes discussions are happening around zerocoin?
288 2013-04-15 02:32:34 <gruez> sipa: i have a problem with gitian
289 2013-04-15 02:33:11 <gmaxwell> vazakl: huh? None. Why would you think there are any?
290 2013-04-15 02:33:35 <gruez> http://pastie.org/pastes/7559508/text?key=7f0jsq7lnuynlbyorffca
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292 2013-04-15 02:34:18 <gmaxwell> vazakl: perhaps you would be interested in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175156.0
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301 2013-04-15 02:41:19 <saracen> Regarding that topic of anonymising bitcoins... why are there no free mixers?
302 2013-04-15 02:41:30 <Luke-Jr> gruez: is your system 32-bit?
303 2013-04-15 02:41:37 <gruez> Luke-Jr: 64
304 2013-04-15 02:41:42 Lophie has joined
305 2013-04-15 02:41:54 <gruez> Luke-Jr: is it possible to disable 64 bit builds?
306 2013-04-15 02:42:11 <Luke-Jr> gruez: no
307 2013-04-15 02:42:24 <Luke-Jr> gruez: pastebin var/*.log
308 2013-04-15 02:42:31 Lophie has quit (Client Quit)
309 2013-04-15 02:42:37 <gruez> Luke-Jr: I started a new build
310 2013-04-15 02:42:38 <gruez> :(
311 2013-04-15 02:42:48 <gruez> Luke-Jr: if the OS is 32 bit
312 2013-04-15 02:42:57 <gruez> it won't try to build 64 bit, right?
313 2013-04-15 02:43:03 <Luke-Jr> it will, and fail like that
314 2013-04-15 02:43:07 <Luke-Jr> uname -m
315 2013-04-15 02:43:23 ColinT has joined
316 2013-04-15 02:43:41 <Luke-Jr> sipa: why not this? http://codepad.org/9YbHL3Q8
317 2013-04-15 02:43:57 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
318 2013-04-15 02:44:55 <gruez> Luke-Jr: I'm using tee to pipe my console output to a file
319 2013-04-15 02:44:55 ForceMajeure_ has joined
320 2013-04-15 02:45:00 <gruez> but it doesn't log some of the lines
321 2013-04-15 02:45:06 <gruez> (probably because it's stderr)
322 2013-04-15 02:45:13 <Luke-Jr> gruez: command 2>&1 | tee foo
323 2013-04-15 02:45:19 <gruez> ok
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328 2013-04-15 02:47:57 <SomeoneWeird> anyone know a good sqlite browser for nxi?
329 2013-04-15 02:48:01 <SomeoneWeird> er, nix
330 2013-04-15 02:50:10 Darin has joined
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332 2013-04-15 02:52:19 <gruez> SomeoneWeird: so no windows?
333 2013-04-15 02:52:20 <gruez> :(
334 2013-04-15 02:53:06 <saracen> Regarding that topic of anonymising bitcoins... why are there no free mixers?
335 2013-04-15 02:53:09 <saracen> opps
336 2013-04-15 02:53:13 Elmf has joined
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342 2013-04-15 02:55:24 <SomeoneWeird> gruez, nah
343 2013-04-15 02:56:00 <gruez> saracen: you can always use some random exchange
344 2013-04-15 02:56:05 <gruez> deposit money
345 2013-04-15 02:56:14 <gruez> sell to USD or another alt coin
346 2013-04-15 02:56:18 <gruez> transfer to another exchange
347 2013-04-15 02:56:21 <gruez> and buy back BTC
348 2013-04-15 02:56:26 <gruez> then withdraw
349 2013-04-15 02:56:32 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
350 2013-04-15 02:56:39 <gruez> or just deposit/withdraw
351 2013-04-15 02:57:23 <saracen> I remember awhile ago I did look into that, but often found I would receive the same funds back
352 2013-04-15 02:57:32 <saracen> Then I decided to do a small test with blockchain's solution
353 2013-04-15 02:57:54 <saracen> But despite it saying how clever it was
354 2013-04-15 02:58:09 <gruez> saracen: try depositing BTC to mtgox
355 2013-04-15 02:58:18 <ProfMac> if I start bitcoin-qt -reindex=1, will it be unavailable until the indexing finishes?
356 2013-04-15 02:58:19 <GlitchNZ> I'd be keen to see the details on zerocoin
357 2013-04-15 02:58:28 <gruez> then withdraw to mtgoxc doe
358 2013-04-15 02:58:30 <gruez> *mtgox code
359 2013-04-15 02:58:31 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
360 2013-04-15 02:58:35 <gruez> create another mtgox account
361 2013-04-15 02:58:37 <gruez> wait a while
362 2013-04-15 02:58:39 <gruez> apply the code
363 2013-04-15 02:58:40 <gruez> and withdraw
364 2013-04-15 02:58:53 <saracen> Ah, will test it some time
365 2013-04-15 02:58:58 <gruez> extra privacy: split up the codes
366 2013-04-15 02:59:24 fiesh has joined
367 2013-04-15 02:59:30 <saracen> But yeah, the blockchain.info stuff. It only works if you use a single address. I did two small tests, and on the second go, I received coins I had placed in my first go
368 2013-04-15 02:59:37 <Luke-Jr> this is not #how-to-commit-crimes-using-bitcoin
369 2013-04-15 02:59:38 <Luke-Jr> kthx
370 2013-04-15 02:59:42 <GlitchNZ> does anyone have a link that explains the zerocoin process in more detail?
371 2013-04-15 03:02:23 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
372 2013-04-15 03:02:51 <gmaxwell> GlitchNZ: see the link I pasted above, it links to the paper.
373 2013-04-15 03:02:55 i2pRelay has joined
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375 2013-04-15 03:05:26 <GlitchNZ> thx
376 2013-04-15 03:05:55 RBecker is now known as rbecker
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394 2013-04-15 03:29:08 <bytecoin> zerocoin?
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405 2013-04-15 03:42:19 <Luke-Jr> sipa: how do you feel about changes to the dnsseed.dump format?
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420 2013-04-15 04:01:08 <gp5st> why is op_mul disabled?
421 2013-04-15 04:01:57 jeewee has joined
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424 2013-04-15 04:03:11 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: cuz it wasn't used when things got set in stone
425 2013-04-15 04:03:38 <gp5st> that doesn't seem like a good reason? what was set in stone?
426 2013-04-15 04:03:52 <gp5st> it seems like a useful thing to have
427 2013-04-15 04:04:00 <Luke-Jr> the scripting language
428 2013-04-15 04:04:00 <gp5st> and there is already an opcode dedicated to it
429 2013-04-15 04:04:11 <Luke-Jr> and yes, there is no good reason for most of the decisions in bitcoin
430 2013-04-15 04:04:12 <Luke-Jr> :P
431 2013-04-15 04:04:37 <gp5st> what would it take to enable it's enabling in future versions?
432 2013-04-15 04:04:42 <Luke-Jr> hardfork
433 2013-04-15 04:04:58 <gp5st> why wouldn't mainline every consider it?
434 2013-04-15 04:05:03 <Luke-Jr> basically as much work as creating it anew
435 2013-04-15 04:05:05 <gp5st> also, is there a way to say "2 numbers are next, invalid otherwise"?
436 2013-04-15 04:05:14 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: it's not a decision developers can just make
437 2013-04-15 04:05:22 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: it requires the consent of the economic majority
438 2013-04-15 04:05:25 <gp5st> i know, the community has to take it up
439 2013-04-15 04:05:28 <gp5st> how? there is already an opcode set aside, right?
440 2013-04-15 04:05:35 <Luke-Jr> irrelevant
441 2013-04-15 04:05:46 <gp5st> so if it were enabled in...0.9 say, it'd be useful once people pick up 0.9?
442 2013-04-15 04:05:52 <gp5st> 51% of people*
443 2013-04-15 04:05:54 <Luke-Jr> no, it would break all current versions
444 2013-04-15 04:06:01 <Luke-Jr> you'd need 100% basically
445 2013-04-15 04:06:03 <Luke-Jr> and not just miners
446 2013-04-15 04:06:13 <gp5st> :-\
447 2013-04-15 04:06:20 <Luke-Jr> this is what we're doing on May 15th for the first time in a looooooong time
448 2013-04-15 04:06:25 <Luke-Jr> for an important bugfix
449 2013-04-15 04:06:25 <gp5st> it seems like an awful thing to leave out
450 2013-04-15 04:06:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
451 2013-04-15 04:06:48 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: if you really want it, organize testing ALL the disabled opcodes
452 2013-04-15 04:07:04 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: after they're well-tested, you could possibly campaign for a hardfork to enable them
453 2013-04-15 04:07:13 i2pRelay has joined
454 2013-04-15 04:07:30 <Luke-Jr> you'll also need to put together some solid practical use-cases that need it
455 2013-04-15 04:07:38 <gp5st> there are 11 that are either arithmetic or bitwise, it don't understand why they weren't implemented
456 2013-04-15 04:07:46 <gmaxwell> People were still finding serious bugs in them even _after_ they were disabled...
457 2013-04-15 04:07:52 <Luke-Jr> ^
458 2013-04-15 04:08:05 <gp5st> bugs in mult, xor, and, &c?
459 2013-04-15 04:08:21 <gmaxwell> gp5st: they were implemented, and they contained serious vulnerabilities and so they all got shut off.
460 2013-04-15 04:08:39 <gp5st> :(
461 2013-04-15 04:08:57 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: probably one thing you could fix immediately, that would be a "first step" would be some kind of time/tick limit for scripts
462 2013-04-15 04:09:17 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: "if a script takes more than 100ms, it fails unless it's part of a block"
463 2013-04-15 04:09:52 <gp5st> what types of vulurabilites were in a mult opcode?
464 2013-04-15 04:10:01 <gp5st> was it timing issues? causeing things to take too long?
465 2013-04-15 04:10:26 coolsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
466 2013-04-15 04:10:33 <gp5st> anyway, i'll spend more time looking into it
467 2013-04-15 04:10:41 KoSoVaR has quit ()
468 2013-04-15 04:10:49 <gp5st> is there a way to say "2 ints are coming up. invalid otherwise?"
469 2013-04-15 04:11:16 <Luke-Jr> what does coming up mean?
470 2013-04-15 04:11:26 <gp5st> on the stack
471 2013-04-15 04:11:41 <Luke-Jr> so, stack has >= 2 items?
472 2013-04-15 04:11:42 <gp5st> the next 2 things pushed to the stack must be ints, or at least constants, not opcodes
473 2013-04-15 04:11:50 <Luke-Jr> â¦
474 2013-04-15 04:11:52 <gp5st> yes
475 2013-04-15 04:11:53 <Luke-Jr> opcodes can't be on the stack
476 2013-04-15 04:11:57 <Luke-Jr> and the stack is typeless
477 2013-04-15 04:12:05 <gp5st> ok
478 2013-04-15 04:12:13 da2ce7 has joined
479 2013-04-15 04:12:21 <Luke-Jr> OP_SWAP OP_SWAP might do it
480 2013-04-15 04:12:56 <gp5st> hmm, i was thinking of something, but it requires me to have "my script" "someone else's script" "my script" and i was hoping to make it so "someone else's script" was just a single number/constant, not an opcode
481 2013-04-15 04:13:12 <gp5st> or a constant and opcode
482 2013-04-15 04:14:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
483 2013-04-15 04:15:01 <gp5st> so i want them to fill in a constant that makes the rest of the script true, not just plug in a return true
484 2013-04-15 04:15:15 i2pRelay has joined
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487 2013-04-15 04:16:31 <gp5st> does that make anysense?
488 2013-04-15 04:17:22 <gp5st> i'm sorry if i'm not being super clear.
489 2013-04-15 04:19:18 grau has joined
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491 2013-04-15 04:20:52 <Luke-Jr> for now, I'm going to try running my DNS seed only serving nodes supporting bloom filters
492 2013-04-15 04:20:56 <Luke-Jr> that should be the majority now
493 2013-04-15 04:21:23 DunnoNL has joined
494 2013-04-15 04:22:10 <DunnoNL> Are Bitcoin block hashes known in advance?
495 2013-04-15 04:22:24 GWings has joined
496 2013-04-15 04:22:38 <Tril> no
497 2013-04-15 04:22:40 <gp5st> DunnoNL: no
498 2013-04-15 04:22:46 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
499 2013-04-15 04:23:02 <DunnoNL> So it is safe to use them to randomly generate a random winning number after each block is mined?
500 2013-04-15 04:23:18 i2pRelay has joined
501 2013-04-15 04:23:27 <BCB> trying to get my head around storing bitcoin ints in a db
502 2013-04-15 04:23:44 <BCB> if I have 1 btc, whow should that bee stored
503 2013-04-15 04:24:00 <gp5st> BCB: if i were you i'd store it as 1e8 satoshi
504 2013-04-15 04:24:01 <BCB> to avoid rounding erros
505 2013-04-15 04:24:31 <BCB> gp5st, so if i'm passing 1btc what do it do to make it 1e8 satoshi
506 2013-04-15 04:24:44 <gp5st> multiply by 1e8?
507 2013-04-15 04:25:00 <gp5st> might want to use an arbitrary precision package
508 2013-04-15 04:25:01 <DunnoNL> Multiply by 8 or divide by 1e8?
509 2013-04-15 04:25:25 <gp5st> mult by 1e8
510 2013-04-15 04:25:42 <gp5st> 1e8 satoshi = 1 btc by definition
511 2013-04-15 04:25:50 <gp5st> DunnoNL: I mean...they're random?
512 2013-04-15 04:26:10 <BCB> gp5st, and do the same for fiat
513 2013-04-15 04:26:29 <BCB> I've i'm passing 85 usd x 1e8
514 2013-04-15 04:26:29 <DunnoNL> gp5st: so nobody (except the miner that just found the most recent block and is about to publish it) would know what the next hash is? :)
515 2013-04-15 04:27:26 <BCB> gp5st, correct??
516 2013-04-15 04:27:55 <Tril> DunnoNL: yes, just you won't know if the block will get orphaned, until X more blocks, if that matters
517 2013-04-15 04:28:08 <gp5st> BCB prob best to store fiat as integers as well.
518 2013-04-15 04:28:25 <gp5st> DunnoNL: miner's will only know just before they publish it to the network
519 2013-04-15 04:28:42 <gp5st> well for USD you may only need to do 1e2 since there are only pennys
520 2013-04-15 04:28:43 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: no
521 2013-04-15 04:28:52 <gp5st> though some places, like exchanges support greater precision
522 2013-04-15 04:28:58 <gp5st> Luke-Jr: what am i wrong about
523 2013-04-15 04:29:00 <Luke-Jr> gp5st: should store 64-bit integer amounts
524 2013-04-15 04:29:04 <DunnoNL> TriI'm learning more and more every day. I'll read about orphaned blocks but I don't think it will have a large impact on my plan.
525 2013-04-15 04:29:38 <gp5st> Luke-Jr: what did i say differently? i said he should store it as fixed percision in satoshi. since it's 1e8 for a bitcoin i'm assuming he's going to use a 64bit integer
526 2013-04-15 04:30:03 <Luke-Jr> I misunderstood you then
527 2013-04-15 04:30:06 <gp5st> DunnoNL: what about a chain split
528 2013-04-15 04:30:15 <BCB> Luke-Jr, how do I store the fiat then so the math works
529 2013-04-15 04:30:18 <gp5st> where there are multiple blocks out there
530 2013-04-15 04:30:28 <DunnoNL> Ai
531 2013-04-15 04:30:30 <BCB> Luke-Jr, fiat * 1e8
532 2013-04-15 04:30:36 <BCB> correct
533 2013-04-15 04:30:36 <gp5st> same way, as a fixed percision number.
534 2013-04-15 04:30:49 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
535 2013-04-15 04:31:00 Belxjander has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
536 2013-04-15 04:31:05 <gp5st> 1e8 won't hurt, but it's a lot of precision that won't be used
537 2013-04-15 04:31:20 i2pRelay has joined
538 2013-04-15 04:31:26 <BCB> gp5st, but what about when I'm running calucaltions
539 2013-04-15 04:31:56 <gp5st> BCB what about it?
540 2013-04-15 04:31:56 <DunnoNL> Okay, back to the conception phase. I want to create something along these lines: http://minilottomayhem.com/ This guys claims he uses the block hash to select the winner. Would orphaned blocks or chain splits affect the outcome of these games?
541 2013-04-15 04:32:00 <BCB> a regular 00.00 fiat number x bitcoin * 1e8 won't compute correctly
542 2013-04-15 04:32:17 <BCB> gp5st, I'm just trying to avoid the rounding errors
543 2013-04-15 04:32:28 SvenDiagram has joined
544 2013-04-15 04:32:35 <gp5st> Luke-Jr: if you were refering to my comment about an arbitrary precision lib, i meant to do the conversion from string to int. storing is a different number
545 2013-04-15 04:33:06 <gp5st> BCB i don't understand the question. if you have 2 ints and you mult them, then you get an int
546 2013-04-15 04:33:35 <BCB> right but one has been multiplied by 1e8 when it was stored, the other was not
547 2013-04-15 04:33:36 <gp5st> is a different method, ie 64bit number
548 2013-04-15 04:33:40 <gp5st> so?
549 2013-04-15 04:34:04 <BCB> 1 x 105 = 105
550 2013-04-15 04:34:09 <gp5st> you end up with a unit of satoshi-dollars
551 2013-04-15 04:34:15 <gp5st> err
552 2013-04-15 04:34:18 <BCB> 1000000000 x 105 = ??
553 2013-04-15 04:34:19 <gp5st> satoshi-cents i mean
554 2013-04-15 04:34:24 <gp5st> different units
555 2013-04-15 04:34:41 <gp5st> BTC1* USD105 = 105 BTC-USD
556 2013-04-15 04:34:53 <BCB> ok
557 2013-04-15 04:35:02 <BCB> and
558 2013-04-15 04:35:04 <gp5st> satoshi100000000*USD105 = 10500000000 satoshi-USD
559 2013-04-15 04:35:22 <BCB> gp5st, that is what I'm asking
560 2013-04-15 04:35:40 <gp5st> you get a different number, but it's in a different unit
561 2013-04-15 04:35:55 <BCB> so i have to multiply fiat by 1e8 also then divide the product by 1e8 when i want to conver back to decimal
562 2013-04-15 04:35:57 Azharr has joined
563 2013-04-15 04:35:58 <BCB> correct?
564 2013-04-15 04:36:10 <gp5st> you can, yes
565 2013-04-15 04:36:19 <BCB> and that avoids the rounding error
566 2013-04-15 04:36:22 <BCB> correct
567 2013-04-15 04:36:36 <gp5st> well, depends
568 2013-04-15 04:36:38 <DunnoNL> Shouldn't you divid by 1e16 because you multiply by 1e8 twice?
569 2013-04-15 04:36:53 <BCB> DunnoNL, NO IDEA. That's why I'm asking
570 2013-04-15 04:37:03 <gp5st> DunnoNL: depends if he means after a mult or just one number and back
571 2013-04-15 04:37:15 <BCB> after mult
572 2013-04-15 04:37:16 <gp5st> BCB: my adivce to you is to keep track of units
573 2013-04-15 04:38:07 <gp5st> 1e8 satoshi * 1e8 tiny-cents / satoshi = 1e16 tiny-cents
574 2013-04-15 04:38:30 <BCB> what is a tiny cents
575 2013-04-15 04:38:31 <DunnoNL> gp5st: He uses the recently generated block. I tried the game once and won (a neglegable amount of BTC) so I don't want to play again ;) In my case he determined the winner right after te last block was mined.
576 2013-04-15 04:38:37 <gp5st> so you would then mult 1e16 tiny-cents * 1 USD / 1e16tiny cents
577 2013-04-15 04:38:47 <copumpkin> in other news, http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/04/14/2234251/is-bitcoin-mining-a-real-world-environmental-problem
578 2013-04-15 04:38:49 <gp5st> BDB 1e-8 dollars, i don't know what else ot use it
579 2013-04-15 04:38:49 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
580 2013-04-15 04:39:10 <gp5st> BCB ^
581 2013-04-15 04:39:18 <gp5st> BCB just keep track of units and conversions
582 2013-04-15 04:39:18 <BCB> 1e-8??
583 2013-04-15 04:39:21 i2pRelay has joined
584 2013-04-15 04:39:53 <robbak> copumpkin: They are using badly out of date Hash/W numbers.
585 2013-04-15 04:40:04 <gp5st> BCB: this is going to sound like an asshole statement: have you had algebra? and covered unit cancelation and scientific notation?
586 2013-04-15 04:40:23 <BCB> gp5st, ahh no. that's why i'm asking
587 2013-04-15 04:40:29 <BCB> I have mathophobia
588 2013-04-15 04:40:40 celehner has left ()
589 2013-04-15 04:40:40 <BCB> I'm just trying to understand this rounding concept
590 2013-04-15 04:40:48 <gp5st> it's not a rounding concept
591 2013-04-15 04:40:49 <robbak> If you are scared of maths, you are scared of the universe.
592 2013-04-15 04:40:55 <BCB> robbak, eash
593 2013-04-15 04:40:57 <gp5st> it's unit cancelation and scientific notation
594 2013-04-15 04:40:58 <BCB> easy
595 2013-04-15 04:41:07 <BCB> laymen's terms please
596 2013-04-15 04:41:14 <gp5st> if you don't understand those two things, please learn them
597 2013-04-15 04:41:20 <gp5st> they'll come in handy everywhere
598 2013-04-15 04:41:59 <gp5st> BCB http://www.dmacc.edu/medmath1/UNITCANCEL/unitcancel.html
599 2013-04-15 04:42:22 InternetApe has joined
600 2013-04-15 04:42:27 <gp5st> BCB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation
601 2013-04-15 04:42:33 <robbak> Example first: What is 1minute / 30 Seconds?
602 2013-04-15 04:42:34 <gp5st> understand those two concepts first
603 2013-04-15 04:42:53 <gp5st> robbak: oh my don't write it like that
604 2013-04-15 04:43:02 <gp5st> it looks like a ratio:)
605 2013-04-15 04:43:06 kbo has joined
606 2013-04-15 04:43:34 <robbak> gp5st: It is: the answer is 1/2. The units cancel out.
607 2013-04-15 04:43:49 <DunnoNL> I didn't realize Bitocoin mining had such an impact
608 2013-04-15 04:43:50 <robbak> (sorry, 2, )
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611 2013-04-15 04:44:29 <gp5st> oh, i thought you were asking what's 1'30" in sec
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623 2013-04-15 04:50:57 <BCB> ok so ((1*1e8) * (105*1e8))/1e16 = 105
624 2013-04-15 04:50:59 <BCB> correct
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631 2013-04-15 04:52:14 <robbak> Yes _ although I had to use paper!
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650 2013-04-15 05:17:20 <Toddler> Hello, Fellow Programmers, I am on my way to Finishing another Bitcoin miner, it is a very simple miner created more as a way to teach myself than anything else.
651 2013-04-15 05:17:30 <Toddler> I have already figured out:
652 2013-04-15 05:17:46 <Toddler> 1: Getting the MidState, Data, Hash1, Target
653 2013-04-15 05:17:59 <Luke-Jr> you mean calculating the midstate?
654 2013-04-15 05:18:04 <Toddler> 2: I also manage to calculate the Nonce.
655 2013-04-15 05:18:23 <Toddler> 3: I even managed to Calculate the Last Hash.
656 2013-04-15 05:18:26 <Luke-Jr> â¦
657 2013-04-15 05:18:30 <Toddler> Now I am stuck at the FINAL Stage.
658 2013-04-15 05:18:53 <Toddler> The Calculation of the param to send
659 2013-04-15 05:18:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
660 2013-04-15 05:19:03 Azharr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
661 2013-04-15 05:19:13 <Luke-Jr> sounds like you're stuck at the start too, using the ancient/deprecated getwork protocol
662 2013-04-15 05:19:14 <Toddler> Hello Luke-Jr
663 2013-04-15 05:19:29 i2pRelay has joined
664 2013-04-15 05:19:35 <Toddler> Yes, but getwork is easier for me to understand, so I will start from there first, please forgive my studity.
665 2013-04-15 05:19:36 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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667 2013-04-15 05:20:17 <Toddler> So, if I may, here are the states:
668 2013-04-15 05:20:33 <Toddler> midstate= "8147d1c8a775b41fe2fc710128f760ee61eed0022fd13fe4e0b0197dfe87cee1"; data = "000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f 8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe000000 0000000080000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000080020000"; hash1 = "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000800
669 2013-04-15 05:20:46 <Toddler> target = "ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000";
670 2013-04-15 05:21:02 <Toddler> I calculated that the nonce is: 635141297
671 2013-04-15 05:21:26 <Toddler> and Based on the solved Hash, my Last Hash is: ea74ac6a11610a7471d84291759c11db1e57bfe53cc88e7a935729f000000000
672 2013-04-15 05:21:59 <Toddler> Which is very difference from the correct param to send, which is: 000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f 8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe25db7c b100000080000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000080020000
673 2013-04-15 05:22:09 <Toddler> I am stuck.
674 2013-04-15 05:22:19 <Luke-Jr> getwork("000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbeâââ000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000")
675 2013-04-15 05:22:24 <Toddler> I just don't know what to do anymore :(
676 2013-04-15 05:22:25 <Luke-Jr> put your nonce (in hex) where the âââ are
677 2013-04-15 05:22:53 <Toddler> Ok, Hold on, let me try
678 2013-04-15 05:24:23 <Toddler> Wait
679 2013-04-15 05:24:29 <Toddler> So...That's it ?
680 2013-04-15 05:24:32 <Luke-Jr> yes
681 2013-04-15 05:24:34 egis_ has joined
682 2013-04-15 05:24:44 <Toddler> Take the "data" from get work
683 2013-04-15 05:24:52 stalled_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
684 2013-04-15 05:25:07 egis has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
685 2013-04-15 05:25:28 <Toddler> Take the first 152 Characters from it
686 2013-04-15 05:25:36 <Luke-Jr> no
687 2013-04-15 05:25:38 <Luke-Jr> the whole thing
688 2013-04-15 05:25:40 egis_ has quit (Client Quit)
689 2013-04-15 05:25:43 <Toddler> Add in the Solved Nonce.
690 2013-04-15 05:25:50 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
691 2013-04-15 05:25:51 <Toddler> And then Append the rest of the Data at the back ?
692 2013-04-15 05:25:54 <Luke-Jr> just add the nonce
693 2013-04-15 05:25:55 Azharr has joined
694 2013-04-15 05:25:58 <Luke-Jr> where it belongs
695 2013-04-15 05:26:11 egis has joined
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697 2013-04-15 05:27:19 ColinT has joined
698 2013-04-15 05:27:24 <Toddler> and...the nonce belongs to the position right after the first 152 characters from the main data from getwork() ?
699 2013-04-15 05:27:30 i2pRelay has joined
700 2013-04-15 05:27:44 <Toddler> and then to be latter appended with the rest of the getwork data added to the back ?
701 2013-04-15 05:28:11 <Toddler> So Say FOR EXAMPLE ;p [Sorry, I am REALLY STUPID]
702 2013-04-15 05:29:03 <Luke-Jr> just try it until you figure it out -.-
703 2013-04-15 05:29:04 <Toddler> Data = [The First 152 Character][The other 104 Characters].
704 2013-04-15 05:29:15 <Luke-Jr> it's not like there's a whole lot of possibilities
705 2013-04-15 05:29:22 <Toddler> Calculate Nonce....Nonce Found!
706 2013-04-15 05:29:51 <Toddler> Now the Result to be send is: [The First 152 Character] + Nonce + [The other 104 Characters].
707 2013-04-15 05:29:52 <Toddler> Right ?
708 2013-04-15 05:29:54 <Toddler> ;p
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721 2013-04-15 05:38:06 <Toddler> I got it
722 2013-04-15 05:38:13 <Toddler> Thank you Luke-JR
723 2013-04-15 05:38:17 <Toddler> This is what you mean right ?
724 2013-04-15 05:38:18 <Toddler> Basically, it's the first 152 Characters from Data + Solved Nonce + The rest of the Source Data [Minus the Space taken up by the Nonce].
725 2013-04-15 05:39:16 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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727 2013-04-15 05:39:26 <Toddler> Not merely silly adding the last 104 Characters, BUT REPLACE the Nonce[if the Nonce takes up 2 characters, just replace the first two zeros with the nonce, padd the rest of the nonce] and append the rest!
728 2013-04-15 05:40:33 <Toddler> THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
729 2013-04-15 05:42:46 stretchwarren has joined
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733 2013-04-15 05:46:17 whiterabbit has joined
734 2013-04-15 05:46:20 <edse> ...getwork is a JSON-RPC method sent over a HTTP
735 2013-04-15 05:46:33 <edse> ... sent to what host?
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737 2013-04-15 05:48:07 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
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740 2013-04-15 05:50:15 <SomeoneWeird> edse, ?
741 2013-04-15 05:50:54 Azharr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
742 2013-04-15 05:51:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
743 2013-04-15 05:51:09 <edse> ?
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747 2013-04-15 05:56:15 edse has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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752 2013-04-15 06:03:51 <gp5st> http://p2pox.org/wiki/P6 does this sound reasonable/doäble?
753 2013-04-15 06:07:10 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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760 2013-04-15 06:11:24 <Toddler> Arh...The Final Step
761 2013-04-15 06:11:47 <Toddler> Sending the Resulting JSON to SlushPool
762 2013-04-15 06:11:56 Namworld has quit ()
763 2013-04-15 06:12:02 RazielZ has joined
764 2013-04-15 06:12:11 <Toddler> I will attempt to send it via POST
765 2013-04-15 06:12:16 <Toddler> Let's see if it works
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784 2013-04-15 06:28:48 <Toddler> It doesn't work
785 2013-04-15 06:29:19 Azharr has joined
786 2013-04-15 06:29:56 <Toddler> My attempt to send the Solved Hash [Nicely Formatted in JSON] through http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/ via POST failed. Could Anyone help ?
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815 2013-04-15 07:03:52 <Toddler> Anyone programmer here not asleep yet ?
816 2013-04-15 07:03:58 i2pRelay has joined
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818 2013-04-15 07:04:06 <Toddler> Anyone programmer here not asleep yet ?
819 2013-04-15 07:06:45 da2ce7 has joined
820 2013-04-15 07:08:00 <kadoban> Toddler: in general it's usually better to just ask your actual question to start with, tends to get more/better response
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823 2013-04-15 07:10:45 <Toddler> Sorry :))
824 2013-04-15 07:11:11 <kadoban> no worries, just a hopefully helpful hint
825 2013-04-15 07:11:28 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
826 2013-04-15 07:11:50 <Toddler> How do you send a Finished Block [Or the Less Fancy Term, the finished JSON String] to http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/ ?
827 2013-04-15 07:11:58 Dagger2 has joined
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829 2013-04-15 07:12:17 <Toddler> Under what Variable under POST do I send the JSON ?
830 2013-04-15 07:13:21 gp5st has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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834 2013-04-15 07:16:46 <fluffypony> has anyone used blockparser recently?
835 2013-04-15 07:16:55 <fluffypony> ( https://github.com/znort987/blockparser )
836 2013-04-15 07:17:38 <kadoban> Toddler: i think you use JSON RPC, it'll probably be easier to use a library for that, i can't actually find the answer you're asking for, but i don't think you actually send it like a POST, i'm not sure
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840 2013-04-15 07:20:46 <kadoban> Toddler: in other words, i think you just send it as application/json content type, and it's not encoded like Blah=Text&Blah2=Text2 you just send {whatever JSON RPC stuff}
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842 2013-04-15 07:21:32 <kadoban> Toddler: why are you trying to do that though, out of curiosity? are you implementing a miner or something?
843 2013-04-15 07:23:55 Azharr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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845 2013-04-15 07:25:00 <Arnavion> He's implementing a flash miner IIRC
846 2013-04-15 07:25:12 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
847 2013-04-15 07:25:18 <SomeoneWeird> wat
848 2013-04-15 07:25:51 <fluffypony> lol
849 2013-04-15 07:26:17 <kadoban> :/
850 2013-04-15 07:26:18 * Arnavion is too lazy to grep logs
851 2013-04-15 07:26:54 bitit has joined
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853 2013-04-15 07:27:50 <Toddler> Hello Kadoban
854 2013-04-15 07:27:53 <Toddler> Sorry for the late reply
855 2013-04-15 07:28:04 i2pRelay has joined
856 2013-04-15 07:28:15 <Toddler> I am trolling the forums and Various Coding site to get the answer
857 2013-04-15 07:28:25 <Toddler> And now...I am looking at Cats in youtube....don't ask.
858 2013-04-15 07:28:37 <Toddler> I'm back.
859 2013-04-15 07:28:46 <Toddler> Oh my God...Cats are EVIL TIME WASTERS!
860 2013-04-15 07:28:51 <kadoban> lol
861 2013-04-15 07:28:52 <Arnavion> You were the guy making a Flash miner, weren't you, Toddler?
862 2013-04-15 07:28:56 <Toddler> Yes I am implementing a Miner
863 2013-04-15 07:28:57 <Toddler> Yes
864 2013-04-15 07:28:58 <Toddler> Yes
865 2013-04-15 07:29:02 <Arnavion> Right
866 2013-04-15 07:29:06 <Toddler> I am Succeeding [I think].
867 2013-04-15 07:29:10 <Toddler> I have:
868 2013-04-15 07:29:12 <kadoban> for kicks only i hope? i can't imagine that'll actually be useful
869 2013-04-15 07:29:39 <Toddler> 1: Managed to Retrieve the Data, Target, Hash1, MidState and ID.
870 2013-04-15 07:29:47 <Toddler> 2: Managed to Calculate the Nonce!
871 2013-04-15 07:30:09 <Toddler> 3: Gotten the Last Hash too but realize that is useless.
872 2013-04-15 07:30:21 <Toddler> 4: I managed to Create the Final JSON data to be send.
873 2013-04-15 07:30:25 <Toddler> I left ONE FINAL HURDLE!!!
874 2013-04-15 07:30:28 Azharr has joined
875 2013-04-15 07:30:33 <Toddler> HOW to send the JSON to http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/ ?
876 2013-04-15 07:31:31 <Toddler> I tried POST and Stuff the JSON string inside the variable named "data".
877 2013-04-15 07:31:48 <fluffypony> no
878 2013-04-15 07:31:59 <Toddler> Doesn't work, got back a new getwork data [The usual Data, Target ~ Bla...]
879 2013-04-15 07:32:06 sharperguy has joined
880 2013-04-15 07:32:06 <fluffypony> try: http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/?request=(url-encoded-json)
881 2013-04-15 07:32:09 Odyessus has joined
882 2013-04-15 07:32:22 <Toddler> Fluffy
883 2013-04-15 07:32:25 <Toddler> If THAT WORKS
884 2013-04-15 07:32:30 <Toddler> I am sending you some Bitcoins.
885 2013-04-15 07:32:41 <fluffypony> well let's find out :)
886 2013-04-15 07:32:44 <Toddler> Because that means my first miner is complete.
887 2013-04-15 07:32:49 <Arnavion> It takes JSON in the querystring? Ew.
888 2013-04-15 07:33:01 <Toddler> Come On Arnavion
889 2013-04-15 07:33:15 <Toddler> It makes people with Low IQ like me making Miners Possible!
890 2013-04-15 07:33:17 root2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
891 2013-04-15 07:33:17 <fluffypony> Arnavion: json rpc allows for it
892 2013-04-15 07:33:31 <fluffypony> Arnavion: besides, a get request shouldn't really have a body :)
893 2013-04-15 07:33:36 <Toddler> Opening up my IDE! Can't wait!
894 2013-04-15 07:33:49 <Arnavion> I wouldn't expect that to be a GET request in the first place
895 2013-04-15 07:33:55 <Arnavion> but whatever works, I suppose
896 2013-04-15 07:34:08 Anduck has joined
897 2013-04-15 07:34:12 <Toddler> You will all know soon, I am entering the final codes now
898 2013-04-15 07:35:28 <kadoban> sounds like a nuclear weapon launch
899 2013-04-15 07:35:32 <fluffypony> if that doesn't work let me know; I have an alternate idea to try for an HTTP POST
900 2013-04-15 07:35:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
901 2013-04-15 07:36:09 i2pRelay has joined
902 2013-04-15 07:36:19 <Toddler> Fuck, I can't do ?request={....Have to type a few codes to do URL ecoding.
903 2013-04-15 07:36:20 <Toddler> Hold on.
904 2013-04-15 07:36:34 <Toddler> Before this IRC trips
905 2013-04-15 07:36:47 <Toddler> Send me your Bitcoin Address Fluffy
906 2013-04-15 07:36:53 <Toddler> I am sending you some Bitcoins.
907 2013-04-15 07:37:00 <Toddler> IF it works.
908 2013-04-15 07:37:01 <Toddler> ;p
909 2013-04-15 07:37:04 <Toddler> IF...it works.
910 2013-04-15 07:37:09 FredEE has joined
911 2013-04-15 07:37:20 <fluffypony> lol - let's get it working first :)
912 2013-04-15 07:37:52 roya21 has quit ()
913 2013-04-15 07:38:36 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
914 2013-04-15 07:38:37 mapppum has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
915 2013-04-15 07:41:44 <kadoban> Toddler: ya, i checked it out quick, you don't send it in a POST/GET variable like that. you just send a HTTP POST with header stuff, content-type application/json and then send the raw JSON (in JSON RPC format)
916 2013-04-15 07:41:58 <kadoban> Toddler: let me know if you'd like to see an actual example
917 2013-04-15 07:43:05 OPrime has joined
918 2013-04-15 07:43:38 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
919 2013-04-15 07:44:10 i2pRelay has joined
920 2013-04-15 07:44:24 <kadoban> Toddler: ex: http://pastebin.com/Zwzryuq5
921 2013-04-15 07:44:35 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
922 2013-04-15 07:44:37 <Toddler> Hold on
923 2013-04-15 07:44:40 <Toddler> I want to try everything ;p
924 2013-04-15 07:45:09 <Toddler> FluffyPony, You mentioned, wait actually it is common sense....that the attached JSON must be encoded.
925 2013-04-15 07:45:18 <Toddler> This should look about right right ?
926 2013-04-15 07:45:19 <fluffypony> url-encoded
927 2013-04-15 07:45:41 <Toddler> Original Message:{"method":"getwork","params":["000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe63514129700000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000"],"id":1}
928 2013-04-15 07:45:49 <Toddler> URLEncoded Message:
929 2013-04-15 07:45:53 <Toddler> %7B%22method%22:%22getwork%22,%22params%22:%5B%22000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe63514129700000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000%22%5D,%22id%22:1%7D
930 2013-04-15 07:46:06 <Toddler> I noticed he { is gone, is that right ?
931 2013-04-15 07:46:06 <fluffypony> looks good
932 2013-04-15 07:46:14 <fluffypony> not if I decide it
933 2013-04-15 07:46:19 <fluffypony> %7B = {
934 2013-04-15 07:46:22 <fluffypony> *decode
935 2013-04-15 07:46:24 <fluffypony> nto decide
936 2013-04-15 07:46:27 <fluffypony> not, not nto
937 2013-04-15 07:46:37 <SomeoneWeird> lol
938 2013-04-15 07:46:46 <kadoban> ya, { have to be encoded. if you want to send that as a GET, just put it after the ?, no variable name. i'm not sure if that's going to work or not
939 2013-04-15 07:50:04 <Toddler> Ok ok
940 2013-04-15 07:50:12 <Toddler> Fluffy, is this it ?
941 2013-04-15 07:50:12 <Toddler> http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/%7B%22method%22:%22getwork%22,%22params%22:%5B%22000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe63514129700000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000%22%5D,%22id%22:1%7D
942 2013-04-15 07:50:16 <Toddler> I AM SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!
943 2013-04-15 07:50:21 <fluffypony> Toddler almost
944 2013-04-15 07:50:37 <Toddler> Ok, One Final Step
945 2013-04-15 07:50:41 <fluffypony> http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/?request=
946 2013-04-15 07:50:44 qwebirc67470 has joined
947 2013-04-15 07:50:44 <fluffypony> then your encoded json
948 2013-04-15 07:50:56 <Toddler> Right, Correcting
949 2013-04-15 07:51:00 <fluffypony> otherwise you're setting it as a GET var name, not value
950 2013-04-15 07:51:04 <Scrat> flash miner? oh god
951 2013-04-15 07:51:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
952 2013-04-15 07:51:42 <kadoban> Toddler: if that doesn't work, try with just :8332/? and then your stuff, without request=
953 2013-04-15 07:52:16 i2pRelay has joined
954 2013-04-15 07:52:45 <Toddler> Ok Ok
955 2013-04-15 07:52:51 <Toddler> So Excited
956 2013-04-15 07:52:54 <Toddler> Is this it ?
957 2013-04-15 07:52:54 <Toddler> http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/?request=%7B%22method%22:%22getwork%22,%22params%22:%5B%22000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe63514129700000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000%22%5D,%22id%22:1%7D
958 2013-04-15 07:52:59 <fluffypony> yep
959 2013-04-15 07:53:09 <Toddler> Ok....HERE GOES...
960 2013-04-15 07:53:24 <Toddler> ATTEMPTING to Execute a URLLoader Call!
961 2013-04-15 07:55:05 <Toddler> FAIL
962 2013-04-15 07:55:12 <Toddler> Cannot convert to URL REQUEST!
963 2013-04-15 07:55:13 <Toddler> HOLD ON!
964 2013-04-15 07:55:15 <Toddler> ARH!!!!!!!!!!!!
965 2013-04-15 07:55:18 <Toddler> Stupid Flash!
966 2013-04-15 07:55:20 Azharr has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
967 2013-04-15 07:55:25 <Toddler> I mean Actionscript 3
968 2013-04-15 07:55:28 <Toddler> Hold on, I can do this.
969 2013-04-15 07:55:40 <Toddler> Implementing URLVariables, TextFormat as Text.
970 2013-04-15 07:56:34 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
971 2013-04-15 07:57:04 <Toddler> OK
972 2013-04-15 07:57:07 <Toddler> Results back
973 2013-04-15 07:57:08 grau has joined
974 2013-04-15 07:57:10 <Toddler> IT FAILS!!!!!!!!!
975 2013-04-15 07:57:15 <Toddler> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
976 2013-04-15 07:57:30 * Scrat feels bad for Toddler
977 2013-04-15 07:57:33 <fluffypony> ok there are several things
978 2013-04-15 07:57:50 <fluffypony> if you're getting midstate
979 2013-04-15 07:57:55 <fluffypony> are you also setting the X-Mining-Extensions header?
980 2013-04-15 07:57:57 <Toddler> So, Pure URL?+ stuff doesn't work.
981 2013-04-15 07:58:04 <fluffypony> X-Mining-Extensions: midstate
982 2013-04-15 07:58:17 <kadoban> Toddler: look into the pastebin...your POST should look like that
983 2013-04-15 07:58:26 <Toddler> Arnavion and Kadoban is right.
984 2013-04-15 07:58:38 <Toddler> Ok
985 2013-04-15 07:58:52 <Toddler> Looking now...Man....I am THIS close to finishing this Program....
986 2013-04-15 07:59:05 <fluffypony> and then in terms of setting the POST body
987 2013-04-15 07:59:18 <fluffypony> that's an interesting one, because it's a raw POST (no vars)
988 2013-04-15 07:59:32 <kadoban> the POST data should not need to be URL encoded, by the way
989 2013-04-15 07:59:37 <kadoban> just send the raw JSON RPC
990 2013-04-15 07:59:39 <fluffypony> yes what kadoban said
991 2013-04-15 07:59:41 <fluffypony> also
992 2013-04-15 07:59:42 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
993 2013-04-15 08:00:01 <fluffypony> if you could run an MITM proxy that would allow us to see the raw requests
994 2013-04-15 08:00:14 i2pRelay has joined
995 2013-04-15 08:01:07 <Toddler> POST / HTTP/1.1 Authorization: Basic ---CENSORED-- Host: 127.0.0.1:50033 Accept-Encoding: deflate, gzip Content-Type: application/json Content-Length: 45 User-Agent: cpuminer 2.2.3 X-Mining-Extensions: midstate {"method": "getwork", "params": [], "id":0}
996 2013-04-15 08:01:14 Azharr has joined
997 2013-04-15 08:01:16 <Toddler> I have to POST this whole thing.
998 2013-04-15 08:01:25 <Toddler> Man....
999 2013-04-15 08:01:27 <fluffypony> lol
1000 2013-04-15 08:01:36 <kadoban> Toddler: the HTTP headers are probably taken care of by whatever library you're using
1001 2013-04-15 08:01:48 <Toddler> That just it
1002 2013-04-15 08:01:51 <Toddler> I am not using a Library
1003 2013-04-15 08:02:00 <fluffypony> oic you're doing raw requests?
1004 2013-04-15 08:02:00 <Toddler> Unless you are talking about something build into AS3.
1005 2013-04-15 08:02:05 <kadoban> Toddler: are you doing raw socket calls?
1006 2013-04-15 08:02:12 <Toddler> No.
1007 2013-04-15 08:02:20 <Toddler> I am doing URLLoader.load();
1008 2013-04-15 08:02:28 <fluffypony> ok so then URLLoader is your library
1009 2013-04-15 08:02:40 <Toddler> So yea URLLoader is my "library" then ;p
1010 2013-04-15 08:02:41 <Toddler> ha ha ha
1011 2013-04-15 08:02:42 <Toddler> Ok...
1012 2013-04-15 08:02:42 noah_ has joined
1013 2013-04-15 08:02:44 <Toddler> Let's see...
1014 2013-04-15 08:02:46 <kadoban> Toddler: then whatever API call you're using should let you set the content type and such..if not...uhm, try just setting the message body or the POST data or whatever it calls it to the last line
1015 2013-04-15 08:02:54 <Toddler> Do I have to embed the <html> stuff in as well ?
1016 2013-04-15 08:02:59 <Toddler> Like you know..the <br> shit.
1017 2013-04-15 08:03:07 <fluffypony> no
1018 2013-04-15 08:03:08 <kadoban> no, you're not sending HTML
1019 2013-04-15 08:03:17 <Toddler> Or a single continuous stream of that text ?
1020 2013-04-15 08:03:32 <kadoban> what you'll be sending is only the last line of my paste
1021 2013-04-15 08:03:49 abadr has joined
1022 2013-04-15 08:03:49 <Graet> Toddler, have you looked at slush'd stratum_mining to see what it expects?
1023 2013-04-15 08:03:54 <kadoban> the rest is headers that some of which you'll maybe have to set up in the API call/library you're using
1024 2013-04-15 08:04:04 neo2 has joined
1025 2013-04-15 08:04:13 <Toddler> The "{"method": "getwork", "params": [], "id":0}".
1026 2013-04-15 08:04:47 <Toddler> That's just it, I already HAVE a complete JSON calculated result like this: {"method":"getwork","params":["000000029af1f43c342ad525e3c4fd9368a76fbe32a2bfc1d5503b6c0000007600000000e5a720f8ec330f06fab42bb92f24d5d4211002bb202beb163fbeed28123f8e235166d77c1a022fbe63514129700000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000"],"id":1}
1027 2013-04-15 08:04:54 <Toddler> So that is not a problem
1028 2013-04-15 08:05:02 <Toddler> The question then is..:(
1029 2013-04-15 08:05:09 <kadoban> so, send that, heh
1030 2013-04-15 08:05:13 qwebirc67470 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1031 2013-04-15 08:05:18 <Toddler> Oh man :( I am so sad now...there might not be an answer :(
1032 2013-04-15 08:05:32 <Toddler> How to POST to http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/ ?
1033 2013-04-15 08:06:06 <Toddler> I am not using Stratum Graet :) It's is a little too much for me, get work is easy and I want to start from there.
1034 2013-04-15 08:06:09 <kadoban> Toddler: that's a question of your library, i've never used flash, but in the docs it seems to allow it easily
1035 2013-04-15 08:06:25 <Toddler> No Sorry
1036 2013-04-15 08:06:28 <Toddler> I KNOW how to post
1037 2013-04-15 08:06:44 <Toddler> That is not an issue, sorry I am an idiot for saying that Kadoban ;p
1038 2013-04-15 08:06:45 <Toddler> I mean...
1039 2013-04-15 08:06:59 <Toddler> When you sent thing via POST, it have to be send under a variable name.
1040 2013-04-15 08:07:06 <Graet> ok Toddler , gl, getwork is on its way out tho
1041 2013-04-15 08:07:23 <Toddler> So that say the php file on the other side can do a $POST['VariableNAme'] kind of thing.
1042 2013-04-15 08:07:31 <kadoban> Toddler: no.
1043 2013-04-15 08:07:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1044 2013-04-15 08:07:52 <Toddler> Now I understand the Bincoind isn't php, but still....it must be expecting a variable that contains the JSON.
1045 2013-04-15 08:07:58 <Arnavion> Toddler: Perhaps something in https://www.google.com/search?q=actionscript3+http+raw+post+data might help you
1046 2013-04-15 08:07:59 <Toddler> The question is, what is that variable name :)
1047 2013-04-15 08:08:10 <kadoban> Toddler: no, it's not expecting a variable name. it's expecting JSON RPC data
1048 2013-04-15 08:08:15 i2pRelay has joined
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1050 2013-04-15 08:08:21 <fluffypony> as a workaround
1051 2013-04-15 08:08:30 <fluffypony> you can try setting just the post variable name
1052 2013-04-15 08:08:36 <fluffypony> and not give it a value
1053 2013-04-15 08:08:39 <Arnavion> kadoban: A cursory glance at AS3's docs suggests the URLLoader interface only allows sending key-value pairs in the POST data
1054 2013-04-15 08:08:44 <Arnavion> which is what Toddler is talking about
1055 2013-04-15 08:08:53 <fluffypony> ^^
1056 2013-04-15 08:09:10 <kadoban> are you sure? i thought i saw a part that would let you change to a different data type
1057 2013-04-15 08:09:13 <digitalmagus> Hi I'm trying to understand the formula for Difficulty given a network hash rate, but I can't make much sense of the wiki info: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty#What_network_hash_rate_results_in_a_given_difficulty.3F
1058 2013-04-15 08:09:21 <Toddler> You are right, Graet is on its way out, I better hope I evolve beyond my current IQ points though, or else I might end up being a stripper and start fighting for my whore in Springer.
1059 2013-04-15 08:09:25 <fluffypony> Toddler the alternative is to write a php handler that takes req=json-rpc-data
1060 2013-04-15 08:09:31 <Arnavion> kadoban: Well, I did only give it a cursory glance
1061 2013-04-15 08:09:39 <fluffypony> and then re-posts it raw
1062 2013-04-15 08:09:46 <kadoban> well, me too i guess, i thought i saw it tho. hmm, sec..
1063 2013-04-15 08:09:47 <digitalmagus> For instance, the first example "0xffff * 2**208" I have the following questions: How can you multiple a hexidecimal with an intiger and what does "**" mean ?!
1064 2013-04-15 08:09:55 <Graet> propably earn you more btc too Toddler ;)
1065 2013-04-15 08:10:13 <Scrat> digitalmagus: 2 ^ 208
1066 2013-04-15 08:10:23 <kadoban> digitalmagus: why not? hex numbers are still numbers. and ya, exponentiation
1067 2013-04-15 08:10:38 <digitalmagus> Ah ok.. But why aren't the hex numbers expressed in decimal?
1068 2013-04-15 08:10:45 <kadoban> digitalmagus: convert it to base 10 if it makes it easier for you
1069 2013-04-15 08:10:58 <digitalmagus> I guess
1070 2013-04-15 08:11:02 <Arnavion> digitalmagus: Because 0xFFFF is obviously what it seems
1071 2013-04-15 08:11:12 <Arnavion> digitalmagus: A 16-bit number with all 1's
1072 2013-04-15 08:11:26 sharperguy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1073 2013-04-15 08:11:56 <Toddler> Ok....first of all...I am googleing AS3 JSON RPC now.
1074 2013-04-15 08:11:57 <Toddler> Jerry Jerry Jerry!
1075 2013-04-15 08:11:59 <kadoban> Toddler: you're using this somewhere, right? http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/net/URLRequest.html
1076 2013-04-15 08:12:09 <kadoban> Toddler: set the content type to what i mentioned
1077 2013-04-15 08:12:31 <kadoban> Toddler: and set the data to whatever, in a string
1078 2013-04-15 08:12:44 <kadoban> where whatever is your JSON RPC thing above. no url encoding
1079 2013-04-15 08:12:46 <digitalmagus> So 0xffff = 65535 ? ... in other words, "0xffff * 2**208" can also be expressed as "65535 * 2^208" ?
1080 2013-04-15 08:13:03 teff has joined
1081 2013-04-15 08:13:03 <kadoban> digitalmagus: yes
1082 2013-04-15 08:13:10 <digitalmagus> k thanks
1083 2013-04-15 08:13:38 <kadoban> Toddler: you may have to set other HTTP headers, those are the first few lines of my post. i'm not sure which ones matter, if any
1084 2013-04-15 08:15:02 egis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1086 2013-04-15 08:15:15 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1089 2013-04-15 08:16:17 i2pRelay has joined
1090 2013-04-15 08:17:16 <kadoban> Toddler: if you can't figure it out, pastebin that part of your code and i'll see what i can do without having to learn actionscript
1091 2013-04-15 08:18:43 teff has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1092 2013-04-15 08:21:19 <Toddler> It is a huge mess now,
1093 2013-04-15 08:21:32 <Toddler> I am now completely in experimentation mode.
1094 2013-04-15 08:21:41 Goonie_ has joined
1095 2013-04-15 08:21:47 <kadoban> i'm sure i've seen worse. suit yourself tho
1096 2013-04-15 08:21:52 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1097 2013-04-15 08:22:17 <Toddler> ok
1098 2013-04-15 08:22:19 <Toddler> You ask for it.
1099 2013-04-15 08:22:24 <Toddler> Remember // is comment
1100 2013-04-15 08:22:38 <SomeoneWeird> like every single other language
1101 2013-04-15 08:22:39 <SomeoneWeird> :P
1102 2013-04-15 08:22:50 rcknight has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1103 2013-04-15 08:23:32 <Toddler> private function send_to_pool():void
1104 2013-04-15 08:23:40 <Toddler> {
1105 2013-04-15 08:23:46 <Toddler> sound.Play_Mining_Transmitting();
1106 2013-04-15 08:23:47 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1107 2013-04-15 08:23:50 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
1108 2013-04-15 08:23:53 <Toddler> construct_JSON_message_to_send_to_Pool();
1109 2013-04-15 08:23:57 <kadoban> ugh, don't paste the whole thing here please
1110 2013-04-15 08:24:05 <kadoban> use pastebin.com or one of those
1111 2013-04-15 08:24:05 <Toddler> Oh sorry sorry
1112 2013-04-15 08:24:08 <Toddler> Ok
1113 2013-04-15 08:24:11 <kadoban> too hard to read, haha
1114 2013-04-15 08:24:13 <Toddler> Me be back ;p
1115 2013-04-15 08:24:13 sharperguy has joined
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1118 2013-04-15 08:25:36 <Toddler> http://pastebin.com/842j8LXi
1119 2013-04-15 08:26:51 <kadoban> okay, i can probably work with that, gimme a few
1120 2013-04-15 08:27:15 <Toddler> You can ?
1121 2013-04-15 08:27:16 <Toddler> Wows...
1122 2013-04-15 08:27:18 <Toddler> Just Wows...
1123 2013-04-15 08:27:21 <kadoban> you may have to fix syntax errors, again i don't really know this, it looks kinda javascriptish i guess
1124 2013-04-15 08:27:31 Muis has joined
1125 2013-04-15 08:27:44 <Toddler> yeah, all ECMAscript Rook Arike.
1126 2013-04-15 08:28:14 <kadoban> haha
1127 2013-04-15 08:31:21 Azharr has joined
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1129 2013-04-15 08:32:18 i2pRelay has joined
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1132 2013-04-15 08:36:41 <kadoban> Toddler: try this: http://pastebin.com/0p05CbyE
1133 2013-04-15 08:37:14 <kadoban> Toddler: i don't actually know what your JSON_Message... thing looks like, i'm hoping it's convertable to string or something
1134 2013-04-15 08:39:48 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1135 2013-04-15 08:40:20 i2pRelay has joined
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1137 2013-04-15 08:45:14 sedeki has joined
1138 2013-04-15 08:46:34 <Toddler> Kadoban
1139 2013-04-15 08:46:39 <Toddler> I am implementing your code now.
1140 2013-04-15 08:47:39 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1141 2013-04-15 08:47:52 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1144 2013-04-15 08:48:23 i2pRelay has joined
1145 2013-04-15 08:49:05 <Toddler> IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1146 2013-04-15 08:49:10 <Toddler> IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
1147 2013-04-15 08:49:17 <Toddler> IT"S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1148 2013-04-15 08:49:20 <Toddler> IT"S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1149 2013-04-15 08:49:23 <kadoban> huzzah!
1150 2013-04-15 08:49:39 meefozio has quit ()
1151 2013-04-15 08:50:08 <Toddler> Ok
1152 2013-04-15 08:50:09 <Toddler> So...
1153 2013-04-15 08:50:17 <Toddler> What you did that I didn't do is this
1154 2013-04-15 08:50:43 <Toddler> I CREATED a URLVariable Object, Assign the JSON to its "Data" Variable and THEN assign it to URLRequest
1155 2013-04-15 08:50:49 oGminor has joined
1156 2013-04-15 08:51:00 <Toddler> However, you STRAIGHT AWAY assign the JSON DIRECTLY to URLRequest.
1157 2013-04-15 08:51:10 sedeki has left ("["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]")
1158 2013-04-15 08:51:10 <Toddler> That is usually bad practise....but it works....
1159 2013-04-15 08:51:29 <kadoban> it's not bad practice, it's what the pool is expecting, heh
1160 2013-04-15 08:51:30 <Toddler> Probably because you set the contentType to "application/json".
1161 2013-04-15 08:51:37 <Toddler> You are amazing Kadoban
1162 2013-04-15 08:51:42 <Toddler> You are so amazing...
1163 2013-04-15 08:51:53 <kadoban> URLVarible is only for multpart form data, which usually is what you want..but not in this case
1164 2013-04-15 08:51:58 <kadoban> thanks ;) glad i could help
1165 2013-04-15 08:52:13 <Toddler> I want to help the both of you now
1166 2013-04-15 08:52:17 <Toddler> Fluffy and Kadoban
1167 2013-04-15 08:52:30 <Toddler> I don't see how now.
1168 2013-04-15 08:52:39 <Toddler> But if the both of you ever need a Flash Programmer
1169 2013-04-15 08:52:40 <Toddler> Contact me.
1170 2013-04-15 08:52:43 <oGminor> How do you generate a genesis block on the testnet?
1171 2013-04-15 08:52:54 <Toddler> I will do it for free for the both of you [But please don't make it too difficult for me.]
1172 2013-04-15 08:52:55 <kadoban> heh, sure
1173 2013-04-15 08:52:59 <oGminor> Anyone know of any guides?
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1175 2013-04-15 08:54:37 <kadoban> oGminor: dumb question, but don't you just mine with an empty blockchain?
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1177 2013-04-15 08:55:24 <oGminor> I tried but when it finally found something it said the block was invalid
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1180 2013-04-15 08:55:58 <kadoban> oh, hmm. maybe there's checkpoints encoded in the client. you'd probably have to take those out *guessing*
1181 2013-04-15 08:56:22 <oGminor> Ok yeah I have seen those when looking around
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1183 2013-04-15 08:56:33 <oGminor> Guess Ill read that area more
1184 2013-04-15 08:56:34 <oGminor> thanks
1185 2013-04-15 08:56:39 <kadoban> np
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1200 2013-04-15 09:14:01 <melvster> are there any 'reserved' OP_CODEs?
1201 2013-04-15 09:15:11 <kadoban> melvster: yes
1202 2013-04-15 09:15:40 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i have no problems changing the format, if you have good suggestions
1203 2013-04-15 09:16:19 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i think you're the only one actually parsing it and depending on it
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1231 2013-04-15 09:45:06 <t7> im glad im running flashblock, so i dont get webpages maxing out a core for 100 hashes/sec
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1387 2013-04-15 12:19:27 <etotheipi_> sipa: as long as we're doing this softfork anyway, why not enforce the even/odd s values, too?
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1389 2013-04-15 12:20:21 <gp5st1> would something like this protocol work? http://p2pox.org/wiki/P6
1390 2013-04-15 12:22:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: i'd love to, but i feat that will have much more resistance
1391 2013-04-15 12:22:49 <sipa> etotheipi_: as it means every correct _wallet_ software has to upgrade
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1393 2013-04-15 12:23:26 <sipa> so i'm all for it, but perhaps it shouldn't be attempted in the same schedule
1394 2013-04-15 12:24:27 <etotheipi_> sipa: fair enough
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1396 2013-04-15 12:24:32 <etotheipi_> sipa: well kinda
1397 2013-04-15 12:24:44 <etotheipi_> sipa: if you don't go all the way, then is there a point?
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1399 2013-04-15 12:24:54 <sipa> sure, the reason for doing it is different
1400 2013-04-15 12:24:56 <etotheipi_> I mean, if malleability is still there.... you removed some of it
1401 2013-04-15 12:25:05 <etotheipi_> but it's still malleable
1402 2013-04-15 12:25:16 <sipa> sure it is, this is not to solve malleability
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1404 2013-04-15 12:25:20 <etotheipi_> oh
1405 2013-04-15 12:25:43 <sipa> this means full nodes don't need to depend on OpenSSL (or bug-for-bug mimick its parser)
1406 2013-04-15 12:26:10 <etotheipi_> hmm
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1408 2013-04-15 12:26:33 <gp5st1> with P6 I'm trying to work on an escrow system
1409 2013-04-15 12:26:55 <n1c> gp5st1: mind elaborating on what you're building?
1410 2013-04-15 12:27:03 <n1c> I've been pondering building an escrow site as well.
1411 2013-04-15 12:27:51 <sipa> etotheipi_: also, even/odd S is not enough to remove malleability - there are things like stuffing extra data pushing into scriptSigs that need fixing too
1412 2013-04-15 12:27:58 <gp5st1> n1c: we're over at #p2p-exchange and trying to build a decentralized exchange framework. that link i sent is an idea i was thinking of for a method of exchange between 2 parties mediated by a block chain
1413 2013-04-15 12:28:12 <n1c> Shew.
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1415 2013-04-15 12:29:08 <etotheipi_> sipa: wouldn't extra data pushing make the TxIn non-standard
1416 2013-04-15 12:29:09 <etotheipi_> ?
1417 2013-04-15 12:29:21 <sipa> i think so, yes
1418 2013-04-15 12:29:26 <sipa> but it's still a malleability
1419 2013-04-15 12:29:46 <sipa> ideally, i'd have transactions be fully non-malleable, by network-enforced rules
1420 2013-04-15 12:29:57 <etotheipi_> sipa: I thought the goal was not to prevent miners from changing transactions, but preventing relayers from doing it
1421 2013-04-15 12:30:09 <sipa> what if relayers are miners?
1422 2013-04-15 12:30:31 <etotheipi_> sipa: it's a problem of scale
1423 2013-04-15 12:30:46 <Konnichiwa> How do I find out what the current hash of the genesis block is?
1424 2013-04-15 12:30:50 <Konnichiwa> For the testnet
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1426 2013-04-15 12:30:56 <Konnichiwa> (TestNet3)
1427 2013-04-15 12:31:01 <sipa> Konnichiwa: getblockhash 0
1428 2013-04-15 12:31:13 <sipa> etotheipi_: sure, it's less of a problem as it's already non-standard, but it's not a full solution
1429 2013-04-15 12:31:14 <Konnichiwa> Thanks
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1431 2013-04-15 12:31:43 <Konnichiwa> is that just hex?
1432 2013-04-15 12:31:55 <sipa> yes
1433 2013-04-15 12:32:06 <Konnichiwa> Tx
1434 2013-04-15 12:32:16 <etotheipi_> sipa: I just realized I'm in dangerous territory here... I have the day off and planned to use it to be productive, and I fear that I'm going to lose 6 hours talking about malleability and ECDSA tricks on IRC
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1436 2013-04-15 12:32:42 <sipa> etotheipi_: i don't plan discussing it whole day
1437 2013-04-15 12:32:48 <etotheipi_> sipa: sounds like you know what you're doing, I think I'm going to close IRC for a while
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1441 2013-04-15 12:32:59 <etotheipi_> sipa: yeah, I didn't mean anything against you
1442 2013-04-15 12:33:11 <sipa> didn't interpret it as such :)
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1444 2013-04-15 12:33:25 <sipa> etotheipi_: i'll just add this: right now, if openssl changes its parser a bit, we may have a hard fork
1445 2013-04-15 12:33:28 <etotheipi_> and not specifically you... I'll get sucked in, talking about anything, for hours
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1448 2013-04-15 12:33:59 <CodeShark> in general it is a good idea, to the best of our abilities, to define algorithmically what a correct output is for a given input so any compliant implementation must follow that
1449 2013-04-15 12:34:01 <sipa> that is a worse problem than malleability, imho
1450 2013-04-15 12:34:10 <etotheipi_> sipa: so the goal is to switch from using openssl parser to a simple, hardcoded parser?
1451 2013-04-15 12:34:21 <etotheipi_> sipa: good point
1452 2013-04-15 12:34:32 <CodeShark> we might not be able to prevent all forks - but it will prevent a good chunk of potential forks
1453 2013-04-15 12:34:33 <sipa> etotheipi_: we can still use OpenSSL - it's just that the limits of what is accepted are set by us
1454 2013-04-15 12:35:04 <sipa> etotheipi_: given that OpenSSL _atleast_ accepts standard encodings, there is no risk; we just prevent any non-standard encodings from passing through to OpenSSL
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1456 2013-04-15 12:35:21 <CodeShark> the individual implementations can do whatever they like - as long as they produce an output that agrees with the functional definition (which needn't even be specified algorithmically)
1457 2013-04-15 12:35:32 <sipa> and yes, that means that we also can swap out OpenSSL for a different implementation, as long as that accepts at least standard encodings
1458 2013-04-15 12:35:53 <sipa> (and given that i'm working on a replacement for OpenSSL, i do have some stake in this :p)
1459 2013-04-15 12:35:59 <etotheipi_> sipa: haha
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1473 2013-04-15 12:41:49 <CodeShark> I think it would also generally be a good idea never to rely on external libraries to validate our inputs :)
1474 2013-04-15 12:42:11 phungus has joined
1475 2013-04-15 12:42:16 <CodeShark> at least inasmuch as the data format goes
1476 2013-04-15 12:42:40 <CodeShark> unless the external library is something like a parser that has well-defined behavior
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1497 2013-04-15 12:58:43 <etotheipi_> geezuz, 5,500 UTXOs created in one tx: https://blockchain.info/tx/6de099a565003ee295071e2f5fbab0e5e39c166ac2b36634790be9580d6c1ea7
1498 2013-04-15 12:58:55 <etotheipi_> that's... bad
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1500 2013-04-15 12:59:22 <lianj> 0.000001 to Bitcoin Foundation, yay
1501 2013-04-15 12:59:39 MobGod is now known as Guest3600
1502 2013-04-15 13:00:13 <lianj> 188kb for 0.0005 wtf
1503 2013-04-15 13:00:24 <etotheipi_> lianj: yeah, I noticed that too
1504 2013-04-15 13:01:08 Guest3600 is now known as MobGod
1505 2013-04-15 13:01:15 <lianj> oh, its in no block yet, and hopefully will never be
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1508 2013-04-15 13:01:47 <etotheipi_> lianj: oh! good catch
1509 2013-04-15 13:01:49 agricocb has joined
1510 2013-04-15 13:02:01 <etotheipi_> I found it looking at the list of transactions received by the bitcoinfoundation
1511 2013-04-15 13:02:07 <etotheipi_> I didn't notice it was unconfirmed
1512 2013-04-15 13:02:41 <etotheipi_> I bet SD could use that to "signal" to players that they lost
1513 2013-04-15 13:02:53 <etotheipi_> send a tx that relays but won't be mined
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1533 2013-04-15 13:13:39 <robbak> I think we know who is sending it: it ends with an identified UTXO for bitcoins4.me of .022. That sounds like a manual change output.
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1557 2013-04-15 13:34:36 <qdii> hola
1558 2013-04-15 13:35:11 <qdii> I am reading a paper by satoshi nakamoto describing bitcoin
1559 2013-04-15 13:35:50 <qdii> Section 7 is called reclaiming disk space and explains how to prune transactions to make the coin shorter
1560 2013-04-15 13:36:25 <qdii> but I am wondering: if you delete these transactions, how can you know the balance of a given address?
1561 2013-04-15 13:36:32 robocoin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1562 2013-04-15 13:36:44 <qdii> if only 1 transaction is missing, you cannot know anything, can you?
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1565 2013-04-15 13:39:03 <sipa> qdii: we're currently working towards a different pruning solution than the one described by satoshi
1566 2013-04-15 13:39:17 <qdii> sipa: ok
1567 2013-04-15 13:39:25 <qdii> could you confirm that I am right in thinking that though?
1568 2013-04-15 13:39:27 <_dr> you only prune tx that aren't in utxo, right? (the set of unspent transactions) if they're no longer in there, they are spent and thus you won't need to know the balance
1569 2013-04-15 13:39:48 <sipa> _dr: "balance" has no relevance
1570 2013-04-15 13:40:04 <_dr> sipa: i was quoting his words
1571 2013-04-15 13:40:11 <sipa> oh, i missed that line
1572 2013-04-15 13:40:17 <sipa> qdii: you don't know the balance of an address
1573 2013-04-15 13:40:40 <sipa> qdii: that information is not relevant to bitcoin (it may be relevant to some wallet implementations, but they take care of that)
1574 2013-04-15 13:40:53 <sipa> an address doesn't even exist at the protocol level
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1581 2013-04-15 13:46:26 <i2pRelay> <hgdiff2@i2p> anyone know python and interested in bitcoin stuff?
1582 2013-04-15 13:47:03 HaltingState has joined
1583 2013-04-15 13:47:10 sharperguy has joined
1584 2013-04-15 13:47:16 <HaltingState> who are the best python developers in bitcoin community?
1585 2013-04-15 13:47:26 quaz0r has joined
1586 2013-04-15 13:47:48 <ThomasV> !seen jkozera
1587 2013-04-15 13:47:48 <gribble> I have not seen jkozera.
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1621 2013-04-15 14:17:22 <michagogo> I have two questions about the zero-input block in newly mined blocks...
1622 2013-04-15 14:17:33 <michagogo> er, zero-input transactions
1623 2013-04-15 14:17:45 i2pRelay has joined
1624 2013-04-15 14:18:02 MaxValor has joined
1625 2013-04-15 14:18:04 <michagogo> 1) Is it possible to have multiple outputs in that transaction, or does it all go to one address?
1626 2013-04-15 14:18:44 sharperguy has joined
1627 2013-04-15 14:18:54 <michagogo> 2) If a miner decided for some reason to forgo taking the coins, would a block with no zero-input transaction be considered valid?
1628 2013-04-15 14:19:08 <michagogo> (or an output less than 25, for that matter)
1629 2013-04-15 14:19:15 mercerist has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1630 2013-04-15 14:20:05 <sipa> a transaction always has at least one input, and at least one output
1631 2013-04-15 14:20:33 <sipa> miners can decide not to claim a fee that was offered, in which case the coins are lost
1632 2013-04-15 14:20:52 <sipa> multiple outputs in a transaction can go to different addresses
1633 2013-04-15 14:20:54 cultav1x has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1634 2013-04-15 14:20:55 <sipa> in fact, almost all do
1635 2013-04-15 14:21:11 <sipa> read this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
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1637 2013-04-15 14:24:35 <grau> sipa: just recognized that there is an undocumented message "notfound" introduced with bloom filter.
1638 2013-04-15 14:24:50 <sipa> yes, someone has to write a BIP for that
1639 2013-04-15 14:24:59 <sipa> i wonder how that got introduced without document
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1642 2013-04-15 14:25:48 <grau> i guess it was TD
1643 2013-04-15 14:26:25 <grau> also the merkleblock is not clearly documented, I am anout to reverse engineer
1644 2013-04-15 14:26:32 workman has joined
1645 2013-04-15 14:26:42 <sipa> the partial merkle block encoding?
1646 2013-04-15 14:26:52 <sipa> (i implemented that, you can ask me)
1647 2013-04-15 14:27:14 <sipa> though i agree the BIP documentation about it way too concise
1648 2013-04-15 14:28:53 <grau> thanks, I do not get what the flags vector is or why hashes need a length since the are I though 32 bytes
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1655 2013-04-15 14:34:16 <sipa> grau: so, there are semantically two lists of data: flag bits, and hashes
1656 2013-04-15 14:34:25 <sipa> to construct them:
1657 2013-04-15 14:35:04 <sipa> you do a depth-first search through the tree, so start from the root, and explore children before continuing with their neighbours
1658 2013-04-15 14:35:07 <sipa> ok?
1659 2013-04-15 14:35:16 <grau> ok
1660 2013-04-15 14:36:14 <sipa> for each node you encounter, you check whether it has at least one child leaf that corresponds to an included transaction
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1665 2013-04-15 14:37:16 <sipa> and add that as a bit in the flag bits (1 if it has an included child, 0 if it has none)
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1670 2013-04-15 14:37:52 <sipa> secondly, if the bit you stored is 0, or it is a leaf node, you push its hash onto the hashes list
1671 2013-04-15 14:38:48 <BlueMatt> "I'm gonna build a bitcoin pool software and I'd like to use bitcoinj." hmm...not good
1672 2013-04-15 14:38:58 <sipa> otherwise, you descend into its children
1673 2013-04-15 14:39:00 jaequery has joined
1674 2013-04-15 14:39:16 <sipa> and that's pretty much it, except the encoding of the bits and hashes lists
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1677 2013-04-15 14:40:07 <grau> ok, thanks. Then the hashes is prefixed with the size of the concatenated hash list ?
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1681 2013-04-15 14:41:29 <sipa> the hashes list is stored as a "vector of hashes", so a varint describing the number of hashes, followed by the hashes itself
1682 2013-04-15 14:41:49 i2pRelay has joined
1683 2013-04-15 14:41:57 <sipa> the flag bits are stored as a vector of bytes, so a varint describing the number of bytes, followed by the bytes (each containing 8 bits) itself
1684 2013-04-15 14:42:07 <grau> total_transactions : is this really uint32_t ? since it is var_int in regular blocks
1685 2013-04-15 14:42:16 <grau> ?
1686 2013-04-15 14:42:26 <sipa> i tihnk it is, yes
1687 2013-04-15 14:43:49 <sipa> grau: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.h#L1154
1688 2013-04-15 14:43:51 <grau> I see that in main.cpp it is also pushing tx and merkleblock messages
1689 2013-04-15 14:46:21 Faradayy has quit ()
1690 2013-04-15 14:46:34 <grau> so a getdata is replied with merkleblock and a number of tx right? what determines if a tx is sent ?
1691 2013-04-15 14:47:02 <grau> what is this: if (!pfrom->setInventoryKnown.count(CInv(MSG_TX, pair.second)))
1692 2013-04-15 14:47:28 <BlueWall> Does the latest testnet in a box and 0.8.1 work? I have only been able to get bitcoind 0.7.2 and an older release of the testnet-box to work.
1693 2013-04-15 14:47:47 <BlueWall> Am I missing something in the new release?
1694 2013-04-15 14:48:02 ligar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1695 2013-04-15 14:48:09 <sipa> grau: it pushes any transactions not already known to have been sent before
1696 2013-04-15 14:48:25 ligar has joined
1697 2013-04-15 14:48:31 <sipa> grau: to avoid the latency of the peer needing to request them individually
1698 2013-04-15 14:48:43 <sipa> and needing to cache them until then
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1700 2013-04-15 14:49:28 <michagogo> [16:57:48] <sipa> a transaction always has at least one input, and at least one output
1701 2013-04-15 14:49:29 <michagogo> sipa: What's the input on the transaction that creates 25 coins from thin air?
1702 2013-04-15 14:49:36 <grau> Thanks a lot sipa!
1703 2013-04-15 14:49:51 i2pRelay has joined
1704 2013-04-15 14:50:45 <sipa> BlueWall: haven't tried tniab lately
1705 2013-04-15 14:50:47 <BlueMatt> michagogo: thats the one exception
1706 2013-04-15 14:51:10 <michagogo> That specific transaction was what I was talking about
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1708 2013-04-15 14:51:29 <sipa> michagogo: coinbases are special: they are required to have one single input, but from hash=0 index=0xFFFFFFFF, and its script can contain between 2 and 100 bytes of almost arbitrary data (see BIP 34)
1709 2013-04-15 14:51:46 * michagogo didn't understand most of that
1710 2013-04-15 14:51:55 * HM2 did
1711 2013-04-15 14:52:02 <michagogo> What are hash=0 index=0xFFFFFFFF
1712 2013-04-15 14:52:09 <michagogo> And what's a script?
1713 2013-04-15 14:52:10 <sipa> michagogo: the coinbase is the first transaction in each block, it's the transaction that creates new coins
1714 2013-04-15 14:52:25 <sipa> michagogo: you may want to look at the protocol first
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1716 2013-04-15 14:52:58 <BlueWall> thanks sipa, it seems broken. Is it ok to develop an application against the 0.7.2, will I be missing anything?
1717 2013-04-15 14:53:27 <sipa> oh my... BlueWall != BlueMatt ?
1718 2013-04-15 14:53:30 <sipa> this is confusing
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1721 2013-04-15 14:53:45 <n1c> Haha
1722 2013-04-15 14:53:49 BlueDoor is now known as BlueWall
1723 2013-04-15 14:54:29 <michagogo> sipa: Any one specific document?
1724 2013-04-15 14:54:30 <BlueMatt> sipa: better than...what was the gmaxwell lookalike a week ago?
1725 2013-04-15 14:55:37 <sipa> michagogo: start here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
1726 2013-04-15 14:55:47 <sipa> michagogo: it's more of a reference than an explanation, thouh
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1732 2013-04-15 14:59:52 <helo> is there any kind of UI notification when another 100 keys are generated?
1733 2013-04-15 15:00:23 Namworld has joined
1734 2013-04-15 15:00:52 <helo> (so users will know to make another backup)
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1737 2013-04-15 15:02:34 <Eliel> helo: not that I'm aware of. The software doesn't have a way of knowing when the last backup was really taken, so it could create a false sense of security.
1738 2013-04-15 15:02:35 ielo has joined
1739 2013-04-15 15:02:51 Toddler has joined
1740 2013-04-15 15:03:06 <Toddler> Any Programmer Alive ?
1741 2013-04-15 15:03:07 <Toddler> :)
1742 2013-04-15 15:03:08 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1743 2013-04-15 15:03:27 <helo> maybe i don't understand how key refill works... shouldn't it display a notification immediately after it refills the key pool?
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1746 2013-04-15 15:03:58 <helo> regardless of when the last backup was created, at that point it would know there had been no backup of the new keys.
1747 2013-04-15 15:04:01 <Eliel> helo: The keypool is filled gradually, not all at once. There's a new key created into the pool every time you make a transaction.
1748 2013-04-15 15:04:18 <helo> oh duh... that makes more sense
1749 2013-04-15 15:04:19 <Scrat> Toddler: all actionscript programmers are dead
1750 2013-04-15 15:04:22 <Eliel> and every time you create a new address.
1751 2013-04-15 15:04:40 <helo> thanks for the explanation
1752 2013-04-15 15:05:22 <Eliel> so, when you speak of running out of keys in the pool, you're referring to keys in the backup wallet's keypool.
1753 2013-04-15 15:05:23 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1754 2013-04-15 15:05:29 <Toddler> During the Initial getWork empty call, I INITIALLY used an empty call, ok I access "http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332/" directly and it auto spit the data needed for my bitcoin miner, but now I am "cleaning" my code up, do I need to send {"method":"getwork","params":[],"id":1} to it still since an empty call works as well, and also what is with the id1 must it be id1 ?
1755 2013-04-15 15:05:54 <Toddler> Ha Scrat :D You haven't sleep ?! Dude do you EVER sleep ;p
1756 2013-04-15 15:05:55 i2pRelay has joined
1757 2013-04-15 15:06:24 <Scrat> I feed on caffeine
1758 2013-04-15 15:06:36 <Toddler> Like Captain Janeway!
1759 2013-04-15 15:06:57 <Toddler> "Chakotay, come to my room and rub my feet".
1760 2013-04-15 15:08:04 theyboosting has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1763 2013-04-15 15:09:59 <michagogo> sipa: Just finished reading that page
1764 2013-04-15 15:10:05 <michagogo> And understanding almost nothing
1765 2013-04-15 15:10:21 mercerist has joined
1766 2013-04-15 15:10:26 <Eliel> helo: then again, it'd probably make sense for the client to suggest backing whenever 33 new addressess have been created since the last time the user has used the "backup wallet" menu item.
1767 2013-04-15 15:10:34 <michagogo> Wait, what I read was the "script" page
1768 2013-04-15 15:10:45 <quaz0r> I LIKE BIG BLOCKS AND I CANNOT LIE
1769 2013-04-15 15:12:31 <t7> i hate a big blockchain
1770 2013-04-15 15:12:42 <Toddler> For the "{"method":"getwork","params":[],"id":1}" empty request, must it be 1 ? Can it be 1 everytime ? Or the id number have to change on our end ?
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1777 2013-04-15 15:21:07 <helo> Eliel: yeah, that sounds like a good idea. it's arduous to have to explain to every user when to make backups... and with the usually deluge of new info that a new user faces, most of them probably wouldn't remember 100 transactions down the line.
1778 2013-04-15 15:21:27 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1779 2013-04-15 15:21:37 swhitt has quit (Excess Flood)
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1783 2013-04-15 15:22:30 <Toddler> OK, I am going to assume the id:1 is JSON specific and means nothing to the Pool and not as a way of identification.
1784 2013-04-15 15:22:46 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1785 2013-04-15 15:22:50 paulo_ has joined
1786 2013-04-15 15:23:06 <Toddler> Besides, after I produced the solution and request more work, I will be using id:1 again and the resulting hash will be past back with id:1 so everything should be ok.
1787 2013-04-15 15:23:07 paulo_ has quit (Changing host)
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1789 2013-04-15 15:23:16 <helo> not to mention that there's no number in the UI anywhere that the user can monitor to know when they've passed the backup threshold
1790 2013-04-15 15:23:16 <Toddler> It is not as if I ask for two getwork at the same time.
1791 2013-04-15 15:23:18 rdymac has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1792 2013-04-15 15:23:20 <sipa> Toddler: it's even JSON-RPC specific
1793 2013-04-15 15:23:26 <sipa> not JSON
1794 2013-04-15 15:23:37 swhitt has joined
1795 2013-04-15 15:23:49 <Toddler> Sorry
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1798 2013-04-15 15:27:03 <Edward_Black> Hello! Not strictly bitcoin-related, but do any of the kind gentlemen behind Zerocoin paper frequent this channel ?
1799 2013-04-15 15:28:05 pete95 has joined
1800 2013-04-15 15:29:15 DunnoNL has joined
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1803 2013-04-15 15:30:35 <DunnoNL> Is there anyway I can find out from which address(es) a transaction with id XXX was sent to return any excess paid BTC? Gettransaction <id> only gives the receiving address.
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1808 2013-04-15 15:32:40 <sipa> DunnoNL: bitcoin transactions do not have a "from" address; you can find out which addresses the consumed inputs were previously assigned to, but please don't use that to decide where to send funds back; if you need a refund address, ask for one
1809 2013-04-15 15:32:43 gfinn has joined
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1813 2013-04-15 15:34:48 <DunnoNL> sipa: http://minilottomayhem.com/ sends transactions back anonimously and immediately. I can't ask for a return address. Why is that a bad idea?
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1816 2013-04-15 15:35:20 <sipa> DunnoNL: because it doesn't work with every client, and implies address reuse
1817 2013-04-15 15:35:50 <sipa> in particular, for shared wallets it won't work, as the "sender address" is owner by the wallet provider and not by the specific user
1818 2013-04-15 15:36:29 Toddler has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1819 2013-04-15 15:37:26 <DunnoNL> That makes sense but it's an acceptable risk.
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1822 2013-04-15 15:38:09 <sipa> it's not a risk; it just encourages incorrect practices
1823 2013-04-15 15:39:15 <gruez> sipa: how do I disable signing in your gitian script?
1824 2013-04-15 15:39:33 qwebirc82227 has joined
1825 2013-04-15 15:39:33 <DunnoNL> The alternative is forcing people to create an account and create four receive addresses per user. Is that the only way to go about this then?
1826 2013-04-15 15:39:37 <gruez> I just commented out the part with gsign
1827 2013-04-15 15:39:39 <Scrat> sipa: time to make an IRC macro! something like a public service announcement on from address :p
1828 2013-04-15 15:39:50 n1c has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1829 2013-04-15 15:40:23 <sipa> DunnoNL: you can have a temporary session in the browser, where people enter their return address once
1830 2013-04-15 15:40:26 theyboosting has joined
1831 2013-04-15 15:40:30 <sipa> DunnoNL: doesn't need actual accounts
1832 2013-04-15 15:40:53 <sipa> DunnoNL: also, when the payment protocol is finished and deployed, it will be a lot easier, as a return address will just be sent together with the actual payment
1833 2013-04-15 15:41:04 <DunnoNL> sipa: But then I still need four addresses per uses, right?
1834 2013-04-15 15:41:11 <BlueMatt> there
1835 2013-04-15 15:41:19 <DunnoNL> Haha
1836 2013-04-15 15:41:20 <sipa> DunnoNL: 4??
1837 2013-04-15 15:41:39 <BlueMatt> DunnoNL: use payment protocol
1838 2013-04-15 15:41:46 xenesis_ has joined
1839 2013-04-15 15:41:53 <BlueMatt> also, what happened to payment protocol being done last week?
1840 2013-04-15 15:42:33 pablog has quit (Quit: pablog)
1841 2013-04-15 15:42:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: ?
1842 2013-04-15 15:43:36 <DunnoNL> sipa: To experiment I'm building a betting game. Players bet on one of four options by sending a payment to a specified address. Once the winning option is selected (based on block hash) every payment made to the winning address is returned with profits.
1843 2013-04-15 15:43:45 hsmithsN7 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1844 2013-04-15 15:43:59 <sipa> another dice clone :(
1845 2013-04-15 15:44:08 Odyessus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1848 2013-04-15 15:44:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: gavinandresen mentioned at one point he planned on being done with code for payment protocol on like friday...oh well guess he is incredibly busy :(
1849 2013-04-15 15:44:43 <Scrat> sipa: wait till you see mine
1850 2013-04-15 15:44:47 <DunnoNL> sipa: I'm genuinely sorry. I plan on building something more constructive and complex once I understand the basics.
1851 2013-04-15 15:44:48 theyboosting has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1852 2013-04-15 15:44:56 <Scrat> it will be -dev approved
1853 2013-04-15 15:44:57 <sipa> haha
1854 2013-04-15 15:45:08 Odyessus has joined
1855 2013-04-15 15:45:30 <BlueMatt> Bitcoin: the currency of really bad (but provably bad) lotteries
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1857 2013-04-15 15:45:48 <DunnoNL> sipa: I selected this because of the low risk (low transaction value and immediate payout so no risk in holding any money).
1858 2013-04-15 15:46:05 i2pRelay has joined
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1860 2013-04-15 15:46:24 <sipa> DunnoNL: using a block hash is dangerous, as miners have some control over it (it's expensive, but at some point if it would become populair, it may be worth skewing mining hashes for)
1861 2013-04-15 15:47:35 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I'm trying to ignore stuff so I get the payment request code done⦠there is a lot of stuff to ignore
1862 2013-04-15 15:47:36 <DunnoNL> sipa: I am aware of the risk and I'm willing to take it. For now it won't be profitable to skew hashes for a 0.01 BTC bet. Which other value would you suggest?
1863 2013-04-15 15:47:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I assumed so, no rush
1864 2013-04-15 15:48:13 <Scrat> DunnoNL: I think you meant transaction hash, which is directly controllable by the sender anyway
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1868 2013-04-15 15:48:45 <Scrat> or should I say brute forceable (in the context of online games)
1869 2013-04-15 15:48:48 <sipa> DunnoNL: a number chosen on the website, generated by javascript?
1870 2013-04-15 15:49:07 <DunnoNL> Scrat: I am now using block hash
1871 2013-04-15 15:49:44 <DunnoNL> sipa: A double shuffle like BitZino? Initial shuffle plus MTwister shuffle based on user input?
1872 2013-04-15 15:50:12 Toddler has joined
1873 2013-04-15 15:50:15 <sipa> with a secret nonce, whose hash is revealed in advance, to randomize the input in an unknown way, and revealing the nonce after showing win/loss result
1874 2013-04-15 15:50:23 <Toddler> Can Somebody help me on the Final Hash Configuration here ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177203.0
1875 2013-04-15 15:50:41 <Toddler> Please, I keep on getting false from the pool.
1876 2013-04-15 15:51:18 <Toddler> [Sorry, I have to re Log in, I got a Server Error 500 or some crap.]
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1881 2013-04-15 15:54:07 i2pRelay has joined
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1883 2013-04-15 15:54:58 <drizztbsd> "final hashish configuration"
1884 2013-04-15 15:55:08 MaybeJustNothing has joined
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1896 2013-04-15 16:01:42 <Toddler> hashish ?
1897 2013-04-15 16:01:43 <Toddler> heh
1898 2013-04-15 16:01:49 <Toddler> What's that.
1899 2013-04-15 16:01:51 shesek has joined
1900 2013-04-15 16:02:09 i2pRelay has joined
1901 2013-04-15 16:03:08 <Toddler> Can Somebody help me on the Final Hash Configuration here ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177203.0
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1906 2013-04-15 16:06:55 daveluke has joined
1907 2013-04-15 16:07:17 <daveluke> hi i have a question about block chain api⦠i just need to respond *ok* in the callback for receiving funds right?
1908 2013-04-15 16:07:25 <daveluke> and then they will forward the funds to the wallet?
1909 2013-04-15 16:07:41 <X-Scale> Interesting detail: Date: 2008-11-17 17:24:43 / From: "Satoshi Nakamoto" <satoshi () vistomail ! com> / Subject: Re: Bitcoin P2P e-cash paper / "I believe I've worked through all those little details over the last year and a half while coding it, and there were a lot of them." <<-- Which means Satoshi was working on Bitcoin at least since May 1997 -> http://marc.info/?l=cryptography&m
1910 2013-04-15 16:07:42 <X-Scale> =122695759128211
1911 2013-04-15 16:07:55 <X-Scale> May 2007 that is
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1916 2013-04-15 16:10:02 <gruez> sipa: can your gitian build script be used to build litecoin?
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1921 2013-04-15 16:11:33 <sipa> gruez: no idea
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1926 2013-04-15 16:13:18 <Guest65295> Why does getreceivedbyaddress only work for addresses in the local wallet, how can I determine how much an address has received without knowing the private key?
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1929 2013-04-15 16:14:40 <CodeShark> because only the addresses in the wallet are indexed in the database
1930 2013-04-15 16:14:59 <CodeShark> if you want to know how much an address has received without knowing the private key, you can always use pull request #2121 :)
1931 2013-04-15 16:15:43 sharperguy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1932 2013-04-15 16:15:50 <CodeShark> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2121
1933 2013-04-15 16:16:05 dvide has quit ()
1934 2013-04-15 16:16:05 <Guest65295> CodeShark: but bitcoind could still return the right result, it would just be slower, right?
1935 2013-04-15 16:16:08 vigilyn3 has joined
1936 2013-04-15 16:16:19 <CodeShark> the database is not indexed by address right now
1937 2013-04-15 16:16:33 sharperguy has joined
1938 2013-04-15 16:16:42 <CodeShark> an address index could be added but it would make the database bigger
1939 2013-04-15 16:16:49 <CodeShark> by several GB
1940 2013-04-15 16:16:53 <Guest65295> ok
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1945 2013-04-15 16:17:49 <sipa> Guest65295: it could calculate it, but it'd takes at least minutes
1946 2013-04-15 16:18:07 <CodeShark> to make such a call reasonable it would have to be fairly fast
1947 2013-04-15 16:18:07 <sipa> without additional index
1948 2013-04-15 16:18:14 i2pRelay has joined
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1950 2013-04-15 16:18:23 <CodeShark> if it took several minutes each time it would not be a reasonable RPC call
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1953 2013-04-15 16:19:08 <Guest65295> ok, sure. Is there some software that you can feed a list of addresses to and it monitors those addresses for incoming tx's
1954 2013-04-15 16:19:18 <CodeShark> pull request #2121 :)
1955 2013-04-15 16:19:26 <wallet421> Guest65295, checkout blockparser
1956 2013-04-15 16:19:27 <Guest65295> CodeShark: that's it?
1957 2013-04-15 16:19:39 <wallet421> https://github.com/znort987/blockparser
1958 2013-04-15 16:19:50 Odyessus has joined
1959 2013-04-15 16:20:03 <CodeShark> pull request #2121 is the closest you'll get to the behavior you were seeking, Guest65295
1960 2013-04-15 16:20:25 Guest65295 is now known as takeyourhatoff
1961 2013-04-15 16:21:07 <CodeShark> that's to say, it will allow you to use getreceivedbyaddress the way you want
1962 2013-04-15 16:21:35 <wallet421> ah i love 212
1963 2013-04-15 16:21:49 <takeyourhatoff> it looks good, just hesitent to use it when it has not been accepted into main yet. What sort of time frame might that happen in?
1964 2013-04-15 16:21:49 <wallet421> it exactly what is needed for true offline wallet support
1965 2013-04-15 16:22:24 <gmaxwell> DunnoNL: use some expensive function (like scrypt with big parameters) on the block hash (or header) instead of the normal POW. The would greatly increase the skewness and also remove the non-uniformity bias.
1966 2013-04-15 16:22:45 <CodeShark> takeyourhatoff: it probably won't be added before multiwallet support has been added
1967 2013-04-15 16:22:46 Hunger- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1968 2013-04-15 16:22:46 <gmaxwell> er increase the cost of skewing it, and also remove the non-uniformity bias.
1969 2013-04-15 16:23:45 <CodeShark> takeyourhatoff: as to when multiwallet support will be added, it could happen soon - one of the next few releases might have it
1970 2013-04-15 16:23:53 * sipa hopes 0.9
1971 2013-04-15 16:23:57 <michagogo> [18:10:22] <sipa> DunnoNL: bitcoin transactions do not have a "from" address; you can find out which addresses the consumed inputs were previously assigned to, but please don't use that to decide where to send funds back; if you need a refund address, ask for one
1972 2013-04-15 16:23:57 <michagogo> Lol, tell that to satoshidice
1973 2013-04-15 16:24:11 <takeyourhatoff> CodeShark: thanks, do you have any guesses how coinbase do it?
1974 2013-04-15 16:24:33 <michagogo> (though they do have a way to send winnings elsewhere: send 0.00543210 BTC to an address of your choice in the same transaction)
1975 2013-04-15 16:24:35 <CodeShark> takeyourhatoff: I have guesses - but that's all they would be, guesses
1976 2013-04-15 16:25:08 <sipa> michagogo: from a privacy point of view, that is not better, and from a blockchain bloat point of view, it's even worse
1977 2013-04-15 16:25:43 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1978 2013-04-15 16:25:44 <DunnoNL> gmaxwell: Thanks. I'm looking into it now.
1979 2013-04-15 16:25:47 <CodeShark> takeyourhatoff: they either use a different bitcoin implementation (i.e. bitcoinj), use a custom build of bitcoind, or maintain an indexed database constructed by parsing the bitcoind database files
1980 2013-04-15 16:26:13 <CodeShark> those are my guesses :)
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1986 2013-04-15 16:28:54 <michagogo> sipa: Okay, but it's better than making it unplayable unless you have your own wallet
1987 2013-04-15 16:29:30 <dikidera> in the genesis block's coinbase there is a 0x04 byte which I have no idea where it comes from. I got the general structure, nbits+extraNonce+timestamp, and all that is left is this 0x04 byte befire nBits
1988 2013-04-15 16:29:34 teff has quit ()
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1990 2013-04-15 16:29:41 <dikidera> *before
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1992 2013-04-15 16:30:23 <sipa> dikidera: all variable-length structured are prefixed by a byte indicating their length
1993 2013-04-15 16:30:52 <sipa> nBits is for some reason stored as a variable-length byte array
1994 2013-04-15 16:31:12 <dikidera> so the 0x04 byte indicates the var-int lenght of nbits?
1995 2013-04-15 16:31:49 <sipa> it's a varint describing the length of nBits, indeed
1996 2013-04-15 16:31:57 bibbybob has joined
1997 2013-04-15 16:32:12 <dikidera> cool, very nice :)
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1999 2013-04-15 16:33:30 <takeyourhatoff> CodeShark: BIP32 seems relevant
2000 2013-04-15 16:33:39 <CodeShark> yes, indeed it is :)
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2003 2013-04-15 16:34:07 <CodeShark> would be nice to move towards something like that rather than just randomly generating a pool of keys
2004 2013-04-15 16:34:17 i2pRelay has joined
2005 2013-04-15 16:34:21 <takeyourhatoff> yeah, backups that last forever
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2007 2013-04-15 16:35:15 <CodeShark> two problems with the current approach
2008 2013-04-15 16:35:18 <takeyourhatoff> but in this case, having a deterministic wallet, and being able to produce addresses and another machine to produce the full address with private keys
2009 2013-04-15 16:35:19 <CodeShark> 1) backups are a bitch
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2011 2013-04-15 16:35:26 <CodeShark> 2) synching wallets between machines is a bitch
2012 2013-04-15 16:35:55 <Toddler> When Entering the Correct Nonce to the Pool in the Final Hash
2013 2013-04-15 16:36:02 <Toddler> Does it need to be in Hexa Form ?
2014 2013-04-15 16:36:10 <Toddler> Or Numeric is fine ?
2015 2013-04-15 16:38:05 <CodeShark> might be nice until BIP32 is incorporated to at least prompt the user to make a backup whenever new keys are added to the pool
2016 2013-04-15 16:38:17 <CodeShark> or to have an auto backup feature
2017 2013-04-15 16:38:30 <CodeShark> where it makes a copy automatically after adding new keys
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2019 2013-04-15 16:38:51 <takeyourhatoff> CodeShark: what would be the resources need to increase the pool by one or two orders of magnitude?
2020 2013-04-15 16:39:08 <Toddler> Like for Example do I put [DataHash]+ 4 294 967 295 + [Remaining Hash]
2021 2013-04-15 16:39:18 <CodeShark> you could probably have hundreds of thousands of keys in the pool without severe performance issues, takeyourhatoff
2022 2013-04-15 16:39:29 <Toddler> or [DataHash]+FFFFFFFF+[Remaining Hash] ?
2023 2013-04-15 16:39:32 <CodeShark> assuming you have a few extra MB of disk space
2024 2013-04-15 16:40:05 <takeyourhatoff> I guess it is not a soulution to do that, might as well wait for BIP32
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2028 2013-04-15 16:41:26 <CodeShark> there's another more subtle problem with the current approach: even if you backup all the keys, other instances of the wallet cannot distinguish between addresses you obtained via getnewaddress and change addresses
2029 2013-04-15 16:41:46 <CodeShark> because they are taken from the same pool
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2033 2013-04-15 16:42:04 <CodeShark> if at least the wallet drew the two types of addresses from different pools, this wouldn't be as big a problem
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2036 2013-04-15 16:42:38 <CodeShark> other instances of the wallet could readily identify change from other instances of itself
2037 2013-04-15 16:42:46 Toddler_ has joined
2038 2013-04-15 16:43:03 <CodeShark> and could make sure to update their next-available-key pointers
2039 2013-04-15 16:43:46 <CodeShark> I've suggested doing this even if BIP32 hasn't been incorporated
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2045 2013-04-15 16:47:12 <CodeShark> but multiwallet is a higher priority :)
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2055 2013-04-15 16:54:37 <jgarzik> wow
2056 2013-04-15 16:55:00 <jgarzik> picocoin runs through entire raw block file, searching each block for a given list of bitcoin addresses, in 44 seconds
2057 2013-04-15 16:55:18 <jgarzik> of course, my list was 1 address long, but still an impressive number
2058 2013-04-15 16:55:19 <BlueMatt> bitcoin block file or its own?
2059 2013-04-15 16:55:44 <BlueMatt> or..how big is said block file?
2060 2013-04-15 16:55:46 <jgarzik> -rw-rw-r-- 1 jgarzik jgarzik 7281094721 Apr 14 18:57 bootstrap.dat.full
2061 2013-04-15 16:56:02 <BlueMatt> wow
2062 2013-04-15 16:56:16 <dikidera> Put it on an SSD and it will be even faster :)
2063 2013-04-15 16:56:16 <CodeShark> stored on solid state memory?
2064 2013-04-15 16:56:22 <CodeShark> lol
2065 2013-04-15 16:56:29 <CodeShark> I'm not even sure my hard disks can go that fast
2066 2013-04-15 16:56:35 <sipa> i assume it was already cached by the OS in advance?
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2073 2013-04-15 16:59:40 <sipa> jgarzik: in other news, libsecp256k1 could validate all signatures in the main chain in 420s on a hexacore machine :)
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2075 2013-04-15 16:59:50 <CodeShark> I'm not even sure my computer can just straight out copy a file that big in 44 seconds :p
2076 2013-04-15 17:00:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: awww, so bitcoinj really isnt all that fast :(
2077 2013-04-15 17:00:08 <CodeShark> let alone process any of the data in it
2078 2013-04-15 17:00:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: just signature validation, not the bitcoind overhead
2079 2013-04-15 17:00:29 Phraust has joined
2080 2013-04-15 17:00:29 <jgarzik> Not enough memory here to cache it all
2081 2013-04-15 17:00:34 <jgarzik> so hard disk bound
2082 2013-04-15 17:00:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: so not a fair comparison; i'm sure just maintaining the UTXO set with signature checking disables takes more time than that
2083 2013-04-15 17:00:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: I expect to be able to keep all non-sig validation time effectively 0 compared to sigchecking
2084 2013-04-15 17:00:58 <jgarzik> that's pretty much the speed I can read off a non-SSD
2085 2013-04-15 17:01:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: ofc thats unreasonable, but its a goal
2086 2013-04-15 17:01:27 <sipa> jgarzik: 160 MB/s? what disks are those?
2087 2013-04-15 17:01:29 <BlueMatt> re: its probably on an ssd...meh ssds arent significantly faster for sequential read
2088 2013-04-15 17:01:34 FredEE has joined
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2090 2013-04-15 17:04:02 <BlueMatt> well, only a few times faster, not order of magnitude like random access
2091 2013-04-15 17:04:07 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
2092 2013-04-15 17:04:28 <oGminor> Im trying to learn about the blockchain and how everything works so I tried generating a genesis block with testnet=1 but I keep getting invalidchainfound. Are there any guides on the subject?
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2095 2013-04-15 17:05:06 <CodeShark> the genesis block is hardcoded into the satoshi client
2096 2013-04-15 17:05:22 <CodeShark> if you want to generate your own genesis block, you're going to have to make a custom build
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2106 2013-04-15 17:08:45 <melvster> oGminor: you might want to follow the noobcoin thread on the forums
2107 2013-04-15 17:08:50 paraipan has joined
2108 2013-04-15 17:09:06 <oGminor> Ill check it out thanks
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2114 2013-04-15 17:10:15 <melvster> oGminor: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175891.0
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2149 2013-04-15 17:34:22 testnode9 has joined
2150 2013-04-15 17:34:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: my bitcoind has now been running for over a week, and memory usage has been stable around 850 MiB (this is with ~300 connections and maxsendbuffer=3000)
2151 2013-04-15 17:35:11 xenesis has joined
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2153 2013-04-15 17:35:37 <gmaxwell> Hm. vanitygen uses EC_POINTs_make_affine() to do batched BN_mod_inverse()
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2158 2013-04-15 17:40:43 <MC1984> what does maxsendbuffer do
2159 2013-04-15 17:41:04 DunnoNL has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949])
2160 2013-04-15 17:41:25 <sipa> set the maximum size of the per-node send buffer
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2162 2013-04-15 17:41:50 <sipa> higher numbers should mean higher throughput, but i don't really notice an improvement in practice
2163 2013-04-15 17:41:52 <MC1984> in kilobytes?
2164 2013-04-15 17:42:31 <sipa> yes
2165 2013-04-15 17:42:37 jciri has joined
2166 2013-04-15 17:42:49 <sipa> default is 1000
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2174 2013-04-15 17:47:46 <dikidera> blockchain.info broke
2175 2013-04-15 17:47:59 ligar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2176 2013-04-15 17:48:04 <dikidera> their last block is 231492 while the one before it is 231483
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2195 2013-04-15 18:01:51 <wallet421> my last one is 231494
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2207 2013-04-15 18:06:42 <qdii> some other question
2208 2013-04-15 18:06:46 <qdii> I am reading about "orphan transaction"
2209 2013-04-15 18:07:06 <qdii> they stay orphan as an "input transaction is missing"
2210 2013-04-15 18:07:27 EPiSKiNG- is now known as RoyHinkley
2211 2013-04-15 18:07:36 <gmaxwell> ... Making (cpu) vanitygen produce compressed keys makes it 15% faster.
2212 2013-04-15 18:07:46 <qdii> that input transaction could appear when the node gets the next block from its peer, right?
2213 2013-04-15 18:07:51 <gmaxwell> ... why the heck didn't they change it to do that eons ago.
2214 2013-04-15 18:08:18 evan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2215 2013-04-15 18:08:54 RoyHinkley is now known as EPiSKiNG-
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2218 2013-04-15 18:09:30 <qdii> assuming yes, a node has to keep those orphan transactions until a matching input transaction is delivered by a peer node, right?
2219 2013-04-15 18:09:43 <gmaxwell> qdii: it doesn't have to keep anything.
2220 2013-04-15 18:10:08 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2221 2013-04-15 18:10:22 <gmaxwell> the missing parent could show up at any time. The node is free to remember the orphan or free to forget it.
2222 2013-04-15 18:10:25 <qdii> if the node discards it, then the orphan transaction might be lost?
2223 2013-04-15 18:10:40 i2pRelay has joined
2224 2013-04-15 18:10:46 sydna has joined
2225 2013-04-15 18:11:06 <gmaxwell> Any unconfirmed transaction might be lostâ though orhpan ones are far more likely to.
2226 2013-04-15 18:11:37 <sydna> does it not strike anyone as insane that blockchain.info, a website that controls insane amounts of money, doesn't have a security address?
2227 2013-04-15 18:11:47 <sydna> there's no security contact at all.
2228 2013-04-15 18:12:23 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: PM?
2229 2013-04-15 18:12:50 <qdii> what's the policy of the reference client as for orphan transaction?
2230 2013-04-15 18:12:57 <qdii> discard them or keep them?
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2235 2013-04-15 18:15:03 <grau> !ticker
2236 2013-04-15 18:15:03 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 91.61537, Best ask: 91.78999, Bid-ask spread: 0.17462, Last trade: 91.61537, 24 hour volume: 159238.48385790, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.16550
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2246 2013-04-15 18:17:49 <sydna> alright.
2247 2013-04-15 18:18:08 <sydna> i'll ask in another way. does anyone have a direct contact for the blockchain.info admin?
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2250 2013-04-15 18:21:19 Ferroh_ is now known as Ferroh
2251 2013-04-15 18:21:40 <Luke-Jr> sydna: yes, why?
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2255 2013-04-15 18:23:15 alex_fun has joined
2256 2013-04-15 18:26:31 PK has joined
2257 2013-04-15 18:27:00 <alex_fun> :)
2258 2013-04-15 18:27:06 <alex_fun> hello :)
2259 2013-04-15 18:27:14 <alex_fun> 608 people here nice
2260 2013-04-15 18:27:16 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2261 2013-04-15 18:29:15 <sydna> Luke-Jr: http://blockchian .info/
2262 2013-04-15 18:29:27 suporte85 has joined
2263 2013-04-15 18:29:29 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
2264 2013-04-15 18:29:50 <sydna> ^ malicious ^
2265 2013-04-15 18:30:17 ltrottier has joined
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2269 2013-04-15 18:31:16 <Luke-Jr> sydna: nothing he can do about that I think?
2270 2013-04-15 18:31:24 jeewee has joined
2271 2013-04-15 18:31:32 <sydna> when the form is submitted, it forwards to the real login page
2272 2013-04-15 18:31:55 <sydna> he can detect the referrer, and display a "you just lost all your money" page
2273 2013-04-15 18:32:05 <sydna> (or similar)
2274 2013-04-15 18:32:18 <pjorrit_> that's a bit late :)
2275 2013-04-15 18:32:39 <sydna> or contact the shared host it's sitting on. if nothing else, the domain is registered with a false name.
2276 2013-04-15 18:32:48 <pjorrit_> just mail the blockchian guy, to put that up before entering credentials :0
2277 2013-04-15 18:33:06 suporte85_Ausent has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2279 2013-04-15 18:34:36 <sydna> the dude also owns three other variations on the domain
2280 2013-04-15 18:35:38 suporte85 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2282 2013-04-15 18:37:37 pib2013 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2286 2013-04-15 18:39:51 <Luke-Jr> hrm, having trouble finding his email now
2287 2013-04-15 18:39:59 <sydna> is anyone uh, hosting their mining pools on Linode?
2288 2013-04-15 18:40:05 <sydna> they might want to be moving them, pronto
2289 2013-04-15 18:40:26 <sydna> Linode got popped, apparently
2290 2013-04-15 18:40:33 <grau> Luke-Jr: just adding bloom filter to bits of proof. What is the protocol version or message you check for ?
2291 2013-04-15 18:40:33 <Luke-Jr> again?
2292 2013-04-15 18:40:37 <sydna> http://turtle.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/linode/linode-abridged.txt
2293 2013-04-15 18:40:38 <sydna> again
2294 2013-04-15 18:40:48 <Luke-Jr> grau: 70001 IIRC
2295 2013-04-15 18:40:48 ltrottier has quit (Quit: ltrottier)
2296 2013-04-15 18:40:52 <sydna> CCs unencrypted, passwords
2297 2013-04-15 18:41:14 <pjorrit_> idiots...
2298 2013-04-15 18:41:42 <Scrat> sydna: db link doesn't work
2299 2013-04-15 18:41:52 <sydna> Scrat: DB?
2300 2013-04-15 18:42:04 <Scrat> db dump link in log
2301 2013-04-15 18:42:04 <sydna> Scrat: the proof URL on defuse.ca?
2302 2013-04-15 18:42:11 <sydna> it works, it's just slow
2303 2013-04-15 18:42:30 <pjorrit_> march 15th.. that's ages ago
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2311 2013-04-15 18:45:22 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
2312 2013-04-15 18:45:33 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|PiZZaMaN2K
2313 2013-04-15 18:45:59 <sydna> none of the biggest pools are hosted on Linode, which is reassuring
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2317 2013-04-15 18:47:02 <kadoban> is there any expected reason that mining pools will get less decentralized? it seems quite worrying to me their size, and i'm not sure if that'll ever change
2318 2013-04-15 18:47:20 <kadoban> get /more/ decentralized i meant, although i guess the answer is the same
2319 2013-04-15 18:47:20 parasciidic has joined
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2321 2013-04-15 18:47:57 <sydna> people seem to relate the size of the pool to potential earnings, which isn't really the case
2322 2013-04-15 18:48:00 ligar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2324 2013-04-15 18:48:47 <kadoban> yes, seems like a pretty big weakness if that will continue forever, and i'm not sure what could be done to fix it
2325 2013-04-15 18:49:09 <grau> Luke-Jr: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0037 says version message extended with one byte, I get errors if assuming that this byte is delivered by 70001 clients.
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2329 2013-04-15 18:51:28 <jgarzik> grau: you may have found a bug
2330 2013-04-15 18:51:41 <grau> wow
2331 2013-04-15 18:51:49 <jgarzik> grau: I see where bitcoind _processes_ this additional "version" byte, but do not see where it sends it
2332 2013-04-15 18:52:27 <jgarzik> grau: bitcoind reads "version" progressively, so in effect, it may be extended without changing the protocol message etc.
2333 2013-04-15 18:52:31 <grau> thanks, that explains.
2334 2013-04-15 18:53:04 <Plornt> ALTNICK!Plornt@cpc11-bexl7-2-0-cust189.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com|Does the bitcoin gui create "internal" addresses it uses to send funds?
2335 2013-04-15 18:53:11 <Plornt> ALTNICK!Plornt@cpc11-bexl7-2-0-cust189.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com|or receive
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2339 2013-04-15 18:54:03 <grau> jgarzik: it would be better to be definite with 70002 or so. perhaps also adding a BIP for the undocumented "notfound" message
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2343 2013-04-15 18:55:05 <jgarzik> grau: Filed an issue, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2534
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2345 2013-04-15 18:55:50 <grau> thanks, you are fast
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2348 2013-04-15 18:56:26 <jgarzik> grau: I added a comment to the pull request adding the "notfound" message, indicating the need for documentation. Perhaps you are right, though, a "misc fixes" BIP :)
2349 2013-04-15 18:56:27 n1c has joined
2350 2013-04-15 18:57:47 <grau> A document mapping protocol version and BIPs would be helpful in general
2351 2013-04-15 18:57:55 <gmaxwell> 11:26 < kadoban> yes, seems like a pretty big weakness if that will continue forever, and i'm not sure what could be done to fix it
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2353 2013-04-15 18:58:08 <gmaxwell> that weakness is in people's minds, ... I suggest you take it up with god. :P
2354 2013-04-15 18:58:48 <kadoban> haha. ya i was hoping there was some technical solution that i was blatantly missing. i guess we set up a foundation that advertises for the middle-of-the-pack pools? :)
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2358 2013-04-15 18:59:34 <jgarzik> grau: <shrug> I don't see that as a big deal. General the protocol version increases, as BIPs increase.
2359 2013-04-15 19:00:15 <jgarzik> grau: Do you know the specifics of "notfound" deployment? That appeared with the protocol version bump, yes?
2360 2013-04-15 19:00:29 <jgarzik> (You probably know the protocol version coverage better than us)
2361 2013-04-15 19:01:08 <grau> jgarzik: I would not claim that. I guess it came in with BIP37 Bloom
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2364 2013-04-15 19:01:38 <sydna> heh, turns out that the Linode breach is real. there's a bunch of file names in there that could never have been guessed. like http://www.linode.com/y_key_57284cb2de704e02.html
2365 2013-04-15 19:01:43 <grau> I just enabled bloom filter in bits of proof and there if found
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2368 2013-04-15 19:03:23 <jgarzik> grau: personally, I would rather just update BIP 37 to document notfound
2369 2013-04-15 19:03:36 <jgarzik> grau: (the "version" issue being separate from that)
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2371 2013-04-15 19:04:18 <grau> That would be fine, if my suspicion is correct. I think TD can tell. From the comment it was introduced for SPV (BitcoinJ)
2372 2013-04-15 19:04:51 <grau> The version should be a bug fix and the protocol page should list it, not just BIP37
2373 2013-04-15 19:06:09 <jgarzik> grau: which page? This one? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
2374 2013-04-15 19:06:53 <grau> yes, my fault its already there or are you fast again?
2375 2013-04-15 19:07:32 <grau> a comment that itis there since 70001 would not hurt
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2378 2013-04-15 19:09:37 <grau> dont get me wrong, I could write myself am just shy to patch those pages without asking
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2385 2013-04-15 19:12:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: has it been stable at 850 the whole time
2386 2013-04-15 19:12:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: it may very well be that mine is just an old build and I missed an update that fixed something
2387 2013-04-15 19:16:22 <jgarzik> grau: Please add missing information to those pages immediately
2388 2013-04-15 19:16:35 <grau> :)
2389 2013-04-15 19:16:35 <jgarzik> grau: BIP wiki pages are special, and may be "protected" from editing
2390 2013-04-15 19:16:52 <jgarzik> grau: so it is merely an administrative exercise to un-protect them, fix, and re-protect
2391 2013-04-15 19:17:09 <jgarzik> grau: Protocol_specification, please do edit as you like. The more information, the better.
2392 2013-04-15 19:17:22 <jgarzik> share the knowledge
2393 2013-04-15 19:17:42 <comboy> do you think it would be reasonable to add option in the official client to disable validating transactions when synchronizing with network (I think it would make my laptop's cpu happy)?
2394 2013-04-15 19:17:59 <jgarzik> grau: I agree that Protocol_specification should include version-specific notes.
2395 2013-04-15 19:18:10 <jgarzik> comboy: unlikely
2396 2013-04-15 19:18:25 <helo> are pubkeys in wallet.dat always present and unencrypted?
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2399 2013-04-15 19:18:55 <comboy> jgarzik: why? (I mean of course some small config file option, disabled by default)
2400 2013-04-15 19:18:58 <jgarzik> helo: hrm, a good question. I know the pubkey hashes are readily available
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2402 2013-04-15 19:19:21 <jgarzik> comboy: That compromises the untrusted nature of the data. After the initial hundred-thousand-block sync, it will go much faster for you.
2403 2013-04-15 19:19:57 <jgarzik> comboy: make sure you're not stuck on a slow peer, and simply assuming it is your laptop's fault.
2404 2013-04-15 19:20:16 <helo> jgarzik: re: another linode hack, it would be fun to waste hacker resources with some fake wallets with massive balances... but that wouldn't work if you had to know public key
2405 2013-04-15 19:20:50 <comboy> jgarzik: I'm aware of that, I did it many times, but when rarely running client it takes some heat to sync
2406 2013-04-15 19:21:13 <comboy> jgarzik: anyway thanks for the answer
2407 2013-04-15 19:22:03 <CodeShark> I'm starting bitcoind 0.8.1 with bitcoind -keypool=100000 but upon startup, the log says setKeyPool.size() = 100
2408 2013-04-15 19:22:07 <CodeShark> is this correct behavior?
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2414 2013-04-15 19:24:45 <sipa> CodeShark: it probably only actually generates new keys when it actually has to
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2416 2013-04-15 19:24:56 <sipa> so when refilling
2417 2013-04-15 19:25:11 <helo> tools that can be used to make fake wallets with massive balances might be a good defense against rubber hose attacks
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2420 2013-04-15 19:26:14 <kadoban> what's a fake wallet? invalid private keys? or something like fake metadata that says they balance is really high?
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2424 2013-04-15 19:27:11 <helo> kadoban: an encrypted wallet that contain junk instead of encrypted private keys
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2426 2013-04-15 19:27:35 <nejucomo> Hello. Is there a standard for serializing and exporting transactions, and then importing them elsewhere?
2427 2013-04-15 19:27:39 <helo> sounds like it isn't possible if pubkey hashes are left unencrypted
2428 2013-04-15 19:27:47 <kadoban> helo: ah, okay
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2430 2013-04-15 19:28:28 <kadoban> nejucomo: the raw tx in hex possibly? i know you can use it a couple of places
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2439 2013-04-15 19:29:37 <nejucomo> kadoban: Ok, I need to reread the json api to see if it's there...
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2466 2013-04-15 19:47:13 <warren> helo: concerned that linode told eveyrone to reset their passwords again last week?
2467 2013-04-15 19:47:21 jstrate has joined
2468 2013-04-15 19:47:46 <jstrate> is there a way to access a stream of transactions locally from bitcoind?
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2475 2013-04-15 19:52:09 <CodeShark> sipa: as soon as I made a call to getinfo, the keypool started to add keys
2476 2013-04-15 19:52:21 <CodeShark> didn't even need to call getnewaddress
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2478 2013-04-15 19:53:09 <helo> warren: i don't use linode (and def wouldn't have my wallet there if i did)... but it's always fun to think of ways to mess with malicious people :)
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2496 2013-04-15 20:07:46 <FishBurger> itcoin (BTC) is an online currency that is based on an open-source, peer-to-peer encryption protocol first described in 2009 by a pseudonymous developer (or developers) Satoshi Nakamoto.[6][7] Bitcoin creation and transfer is accomplished on an Internet-based network and is not managed by any central authority. The creation of new bitcoins is automated and may be accomplished by servers, called bitcoin miners that confirm b
2497 2013-04-15 20:08:02 <FishBurger> is this true ?
2498 2013-04-15 20:08:41 <sipa> you missed the start and the end, but i assume yes
2499 2013-04-15 20:08:54 <FishBurger> ok
2500 2013-04-15 20:09:13 <sipa> oh, it's not an encryption protocol
2501 2013-04-15 20:09:17 <sipa> bitcoin doesn't use encryption
2502 2013-04-15 20:10:03 <CodeShark> well, depends on how you define encryption - many would argue that public key signatures and collision-resistant hash functions are part of cryptography
2503 2013-04-15 20:10:03 <kadoban> i guess you could say it's a cryptographic protocol? maybe that's what was meant
2504 2013-04-15 20:10:20 <sipa> CodeShark: they are cryptographic, not encryption
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2507 2013-04-15 20:10:59 <sipa> FishBurger: i can't comment on the missing part either ("called bitcoin miners that confirm b")
2508 2013-04-15 20:11:04 rcknight has joined
2509 2013-04-15 20:11:05 <sipa> that's the end
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2520 2013-04-15 20:16:36 melvster has joined
2521 2013-04-15 20:16:55 <melvster> did satoshi ever say *why* he introduced a scripting language?
2522 2013-04-15 20:18:06 <CodeShark> to allow the one signing a transaction great flexibility in how to set the rules for how outputs can be redeemed?
2523 2013-04-15 20:18:20 <lianj> CodeShark: i guess so asweel
2524 2013-04-15 20:18:30 <gmaxwell> melvster: Why would he need to? the benefits are obvious. If you want to build a currency that requires less trust, then you need a way to make certian kinds of complex transactions on top of it so that you're not forced to trust some other system at every turn.
2525 2013-04-15 20:19:12 * melvster digesting
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2527 2013-04-15 20:22:16 <CodeShark> without a script, melvster, transactions would be limited to a very small number of fixed types - and then when they turned out to not support a needed function, a new protocol would be needed
2528 2013-04-15 20:22:34 <sipa> still, they would only be limited to what we can do with cash
2529 2013-04-15 20:22:42 <CodeShark> for instance, satoshi seemed to consider sending to ip addresses first
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2531 2013-04-15 20:22:49 <gmaxwell> And you can't just support a new protocol in Bitcoin.
2532 2013-04-15 20:23:10 <sipa> so it's one of satoshi's great visions i guess, to be able to add more complex transactions to it, realizing that it would be possible
2533 2013-04-15 20:23:12 <CodeShark> but if the other person was not online at the time, it would be necessary to use a different type of transaction
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2536 2013-04-15 20:23:30 <sipa> though the technical details of the scripting language are somewhat less well though-out, imho
2537 2013-04-15 20:23:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: lots of cash like transactions require a trusted partyâ for example, an escrow who _holds_ funds and could potentially steal them on their own.
2538 2013-04-15 20:23:45 <CodeShark> sipa: methinks it was constructed somewhat hastily
2539 2013-04-15 20:24:09 <CodeShark> perhaps satoshi just wanted to get it implemented and figured it was good enough
2540 2013-04-15 20:24:37 <melvster> it strikes me he was as experienced assembler coder
2541 2013-04-15 20:24:42 <gmaxwell> The NOP instructions show that he didn't think it was complete and perfect forever.
2542 2013-04-15 20:25:06 nsillik_ has joined
2543 2013-04-15 20:25:16 <CodeShark> assembly coding is more along the lines of a register machine than a stack machine
2544 2013-04-15 20:25:30 <sipa> so he was a java bytecode programmer!
2545 2013-04-15 20:25:33 <CodeShark> haha
2546 2013-04-15 20:25:40 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: spokens like someone who hasn't used x87. :P
2547 2013-04-15 20:26:00 <CodeShark> there's something that came after x86? lol
2548 2013-04-15 20:26:07 nsillik has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2549 2013-04-15 20:26:07 <gmaxwell> In any case, script is forthish.
2550 2013-04-15 20:26:07 nsillik_ is now known as nsillik
2551 2013-04-15 20:26:13 <Thepok> hiho is there a problem with the bitcoinnetwork? 5000 unconfirmed transactions dont seem normal
2552 2013-04-15 20:26:16 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: x87 is the FPU used with x86. It's stack based.
2553 2013-04-15 20:26:39 <gmaxwell> Thepok: thats not abnormal at all.. and just the count isn't very informative in any case.
2554 2013-04-15 20:26:40 <CodeShark> I've used old HP calculators, gmaxwell - does that count? :)
2555 2013-04-15 20:26:54 <melvster> thanks for your comments, all ... trying hard to get under the skin of all this...
2556 2013-04-15 20:26:55 <gmaxwell> Current HP calculators still use RPN. It's nice.
2557 2013-04-15 20:27:14 <sipa> are current HP calculators in any way different from those of 20y ago?
2558 2013-04-15 20:27:15 <Thepok> ok thx
2559 2013-04-15 20:27:30 * melvster read all of satohsi's forum posts today ... brain is a little fried :/
2560 2013-04-15 20:27:39 <Thepok> iam sure they are more expansiv now ;D
2561 2013-04-15 20:27:52 <CodeShark> expansive or expensive?
2562 2013-04-15 20:27:59 <Thepok> cost more
2563 2013-04-15 20:28:14 <gmaxwell> sipa: 20 years ago? nah. It's a calculator. :P
2564 2013-04-15 20:28:50 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2565 2013-04-15 20:28:50 <sipa> http://xkcd.com/768/
2566 2013-04-15 20:28:59 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2567 2013-04-15 20:29:41 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2568 2013-04-15 20:30:06 <CodeShark> heh
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2570 2013-04-15 20:31:21 i2pRelay has joined
2571 2013-04-15 20:31:51 <CodeShark> I remember the TI-99 :)
2572 2013-04-15 20:32:05 <alex_fun> :)
2573 2013-04-15 20:32:22 * sipa did not exist at the time of its release
2574 2013-04-15 20:34:25 <ubias> ugg that cartoon reminds me how much i paid for my first pc
2575 2013-04-15 20:35:36 <alex_fun> :)
2576 2013-04-15 20:35:51 <alex_fun> hey gmaxwell hello from noobcoin :P
2577 2013-04-15 20:35:52 suporte85_Ausent is now known as suporte85
2578 2013-04-15 20:35:52 <alex_fun> hehe
2579 2013-04-15 20:36:31 <grazs> hp calculators are cheap
2580 2013-04-15 20:36:54 <CodeShark> I got an expensive graphing HP calculator in the late 90's that was soooo slow...
2581 2013-04-15 20:37:01 <CodeShark> it was spectacularly underpowered
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2583 2013-04-15 20:37:57 <CodeShark> I had a toshiba libretto around the same time that was only slightly bigger but could run Mathematica far faster than the HP calculator could perform even basic arithmetic
2584 2013-04-15 20:38:09 stalled has joined
2585 2013-04-15 20:38:35 <grazs> 12c is cheap and so is the 35s
2586 2013-04-15 20:38:50 SvenDiagram has joined
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2588 2013-04-15 20:39:03 <CodeShark> I've never bought another HP calculator since :)
2589 2013-04-15 20:39:08 <grazs> don't know about graphs, why would you use a calculator to draw graphs?
2590 2013-04-15 20:39:26 <melvster> wow OP_PUSHDATA4 can push 2MB onto a transaction
2591 2013-04-15 20:39:29 <CodeShark> because plots can help visualize data and functions
2592 2013-04-15 20:39:36 <sipa> melvster: no it can't
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2595 2013-04-15 20:41:08 <melvster> i guess not in practice
2596 2013-04-15 20:41:26 debiantoruser has joined
2597 2013-04-15 20:41:55 <dikidera> these merkle hash really hard to construct
2598 2013-04-15 20:41:55 <sipa> melvster: not in practice and not in theory
2599 2013-04-15 20:42:03 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2600 2013-04-15 20:42:08 phungus has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds)
2601 2013-04-15 20:42:11 <sipa> melvster: any script element over 520 bytes is invalid
2602 2013-04-15 20:42:17 <melvster> ahh
2603 2013-04-15 20:42:30 <sipa> (which was clearly a restriction added later)
2604 2013-04-15 20:43:13 <CodeShark> so OP_PUSHDATA4 is pretty much useless
2605 2013-04-15 20:43:43 <sipa> there's also almost nothing you could do with even something of 520 bytes
2606 2013-04-15 20:43:51 <sipa> i suppose OP_SHA256 works on it
2607 2013-04-15 20:44:11 MaxValor has joined
2608 2013-04-15 20:45:17 <dikidera> are there any plans for the classes defined in main.h to be moved into separate files?
2609 2013-04-15 20:45:23 <CodeShark> hehe
2610 2013-04-15 20:45:33 <CodeShark> yes there are
2611 2013-04-15 20:45:38 <dikidera> :)
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2627 2013-04-15 20:52:58 <wumpus> dikidera: we're not really big on having a lot of separate files, but I agree main.cpp/h are indeed too large
2628 2013-04-15 20:53:44 <CodeShark> having one huge file isn't really a good thing either :)
2629 2013-04-15 20:54:32 parasciidic has joined
2630 2013-04-15 20:54:51 <CodeShark> but it's not really about the size - it's more the fact that main.h/.cpp work at at least a couple very different levels of abstraction that would be best handled separately...and that the core bitcoin message structures (with serialization/deserialization) should be implemented in a way as to not depend on the validation engine nor the cpu miner
2631 2013-04-15 20:55:05 <dikidera> So a tx looks like this 0x0100000001<coinbase>01<value><scriptPubKey> and then you just hash that twice to get merkle hash?
2632 2013-04-15 20:55:28 <dikidera> this is specifically AND ONLY towards the genesis block
2633 2013-04-15 20:55:37 <dikidera> where there is one input and one output
2634 2013-04-15 20:55:45 <sipa> dikidera: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
2635 2013-04-15 20:55:51 <sipa> it's more complex than that
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2638 2013-04-15 20:56:02 <dikidera> sipa:I am reading that, but it's as you say more complex
2639 2013-04-15 20:56:04 <sipa> but that page lists all the fields, their encodings, and has a documented example
2640 2013-04-15 20:56:29 <sipa> and it's only <coinbase> if it's a coinbase transaction
2641 2013-04-15 20:56:46 i2pRelay has joined
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2643 2013-04-15 20:57:07 parasciidic has joined
2644 2013-04-15 20:57:39 GlitchNZ has joined
2645 2013-04-15 20:58:07 <dikidera> I've been re-compiling the source code trying to see how it works by doing some debug output
2646 2013-04-15 20:58:10 grau has joined
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2648 2013-04-15 20:59:07 Darin has joined
2649 2013-04-15 20:59:29 <dikidera> What I am trying to do is write a genesis block creator in C. Give me some data like custom timestamp and public key and compute merkle hash.
2650 2013-04-15 20:59:48 <dikidera> So far I could only construct that coinbase
2651 2013-04-15 20:59:53 parasciidic has quit (Client Quit)
2652 2013-04-15 21:00:19 <dikidera> s/Give me some/Given some
2653 2013-04-15 21:00:25 gavinandresen has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2656 2013-04-15 21:01:57 <CodeShark> dikidera: I also started playing around with the bitcoind source by adding tracers and debug output - and pretty soon realized it would take me less time to just implement my own message structure classes so I could just tinker around with sending and receiving messages to and from the bitcoin network than it would take me to disentangle the structures from the validation engine, networking code, and mining code in
2657 2013-04-15 21:01:57 <CodeShark> main.h/main.cpp :p
2658 2013-04-15 21:02:05 Duly has left ("Silentium est aureum")
2659 2013-04-15 21:02:28 <sipa> CodeShark: given that dikidera is trying to learn C++ just from the satoshi client code, i figure he'd have a hard time doing so :)
2660 2013-04-15 21:02:35 <dikidera> CodeShark:I don't plan to do anything as complex like that
2661 2013-04-15 21:02:48 <dikidera> Just trying to help people start alt-coins easier.
2662 2013-04-15 21:02:58 Davincij15 has joined
2663 2013-04-15 21:03:15 alex_fun is now known as alex_fun_afk
2664 2013-04-15 21:03:17 <CodeShark> would be nice to have the validation module pluggable :)
2665 2013-04-15 21:03:27 <sipa> why oh why does everyone want to start altcoins, but nobody (well, except a few) make actually interesting changes?
2666 2013-04-15 21:03:38 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2667 2013-04-15 21:03:42 <CodeShark> completely separate from the networking code, serialization/deserialization, etc...
2668 2013-04-15 21:03:46 Darin has quit (Client Quit)
2669 2013-04-15 21:03:47 <dikidera> I was actually planning some features of my own :P
2670 2013-04-15 21:03:47 <sipa> CodeShark: i think it'd be very hard to make the code as flexible as that
2671 2013-04-15 21:04:01 <dikidera> Like more UI changes and more features like the armory client
2672 2013-04-15 21:04:09 <sipa> CodeShark: how would you deal with something like freicoin where amounts are time-dependent?
2673 2013-04-15 21:04:10 i2pRelay has joined
2674 2013-04-15 21:04:19 Hasimir has quit (Quit: Vidi, Vici, Veni.)
2675 2013-04-15 21:04:35 <sipa> dikidera: why not contribute those to the reference client instead of making a wholly separate altcoin for it?
2676 2013-04-15 21:04:40 <CodeShark> sipa: I haven't looked at freicoin - does it modify the core message structures in any way that makes them incompatible?
2677 2013-04-15 21:04:41 <warren> sipa: perhaps we should let them create thousands of alt coins just to show how pointless it is.
2678 2013-04-15 21:04:55 <sipa> warren: i guess :)
2679 2013-04-15 21:05:03 jstrate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2680 2013-04-15 21:05:06 <dikidera> sipa:If you guys intended some changes to the UI, you would've done them ages ago :)
2681 2013-04-15 21:05:15 <sipa> huh
2682 2013-04-15 21:05:20 <sipa> what makes you think that?
2683 2013-04-15 21:05:31 <sipa> i never touch GUI code
2684 2013-04-15 21:05:56 Darin has joined
2685 2013-04-15 21:06:21 <sipa> suggestions are always welcome - improvements even more
2686 2013-04-15 21:06:39 debianto1user has joined
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2689 2013-04-15 21:07:27 PK has quit ()
2690 2013-04-15 21:07:32 <Jere_Jones> sipa: Do you have your crypto code available anywhere?
2691 2013-04-15 21:07:37 debianto1user has quit (Client Quit)
2692 2013-04-15 21:07:49 <sipa> yes, it's on github
2693 2013-04-15 21:07:57 <CodeShark> I take back that comment I made earlier about having hundreds of thousands of keys in a wallet and not noticing any major performance issues - it takes forever to load the wallet on startup!
2694 2013-04-15 21:08:06 <Jere_Jones> sipa: Thanks!
2695 2013-04-15 21:08:25 ConceptPending has joined
2696 2013-04-15 21:08:26 <dikidera> CodeShark:I have a wallet with about 200,000 keys in it, it did take a while longer to load.
2697 2013-04-15 21:08:36 gruez has joined
2698 2013-04-15 21:08:44 <dikidera> it's importing those keys that took forever at speed of 2 seconds of importing per key
2699 2013-04-15 21:08:54 <dikidera> but that was like 2011
2700 2013-04-15 21:09:03 <CodeShark> I've got zero transactions in that wallet
2701 2013-04-15 21:09:05 <CodeShark> it's a clean wallet
2702 2013-04-15 21:09:09 <dikidera> so is mine.
2703 2013-04-15 21:09:27 <gruez> sipa: my gitian build failed
2704 2013-04-15 21:09:29 <gruez> http://pastie.org/pastes/7591584/text?key=z1vhgb5hk5bxbxxyu3kwuq
2705 2013-04-15 21:09:36 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2706 2013-04-15 21:10:08 <sipa> gruez: what's in var/install.log ?
2707 2013-04-15 21:10:14 <CodeShark> the wallet file is nearly 50MB and it's taking minutes to load
2708 2013-04-15 21:10:15 michagogo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2709 2013-04-15 21:10:19 copumpkin has joined
2710 2013-04-15 21:10:27 <CodeShark> clearly this approach is totally impractical
2711 2013-04-15 21:10:31 o2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2712 2013-04-15 21:10:34 <gruez> sipa: http://pastie.org/pastes/7591593/text?key=rnycznqhq5arobvnhryetg
2713 2013-04-15 21:10:42 <gruez> install log
2714 2013-04-15 21:10:44 rcknight has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2715 2013-04-15 21:11:11 <sipa> heh
2716 2013-04-15 21:11:15 <sipa> eh... try again?
2717 2013-04-15 21:11:16 fishfish has quit (Quit: Bye!)
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2719 2013-04-15 21:11:31 <gruez> sipa: it's randomly failing for me
2720 2013-04-15 21:11:34 <gruez> sometimes it fails on boost
2721 2013-04-15 21:11:39 o2 has joined
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2723 2013-04-15 21:11:53 <gruez> speaking of which, do you always need to compile the windows dependencies?
2724 2013-04-15 21:12:00 <dikidera> no
2725 2013-04-15 21:12:06 <dikidera> Worked for me.
2726 2013-04-15 21:12:12 <sipa> gruez: no, just once
2727 2013-04-15 21:12:16 <dikidera> But I did compile everything from scratch
2728 2013-04-15 21:12:22 <dikidera> Qt,boost,openssl,bdb
2729 2013-04-15 21:12:23 <gruez> sipa: where are they placed?
2730 2013-04-15 21:12:29 <gruez> it's not in bitcoin-releases
2731 2013-04-15 21:12:30 <sipa> gruez: where they have to
2732 2013-04-15 21:12:33 <sipa> in inputs
2733 2013-04-15 21:12:40 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2734 2013-04-15 21:12:49 <gruez> so if I save my inputs folder
2735 2013-04-15 21:12:51 <gruez> I won't have to recompile the deps?
2736 2013-04-15 21:13:00 <sipa> no you only compile the deps
2737 2013-04-15 21:13:12 <sipa> and why would you delete the inputs folder?
2738 2013-04-15 21:13:18 <sipa> *once
2739 2013-04-15 21:13:25 <gruez> sipa: because of vmware snapshots
2740 2013-04-15 21:13:40 <sipa> oh
2741 2013-04-15 21:13:49 <sipa> no need for those
2742 2013-04-15 21:13:58 <sipa> you can make snapshots of the gitian VMs too
2743 2013-04-15 21:14:04 <dikidera> gruez:If you are on Windows, you can compile Bitcoin and Bitcoin-Qt with MinGW.
2744 2013-04-15 21:14:12 <gruez> dikidera: it fails hard
2745 2013-04-15 21:14:13 <gruez> :(
2746 2013-04-15 21:14:17 <dikidera> Worked for me.
2747 2013-04-15 21:14:30 <sipa> you're ambition in trying in a VM in a VM :)
2748 2013-04-15 21:14:44 paraipan has joined
2749 2013-04-15 21:14:56 <dikidera> gruez:All you need to do is compile bdb,openssl and boost.
2750 2013-04-15 21:14:59 <Luke-Jr> VM-in-VM is slooooooow
2751 2013-04-15 21:15:05 <dikidera> Boost is a bit tricky, but it works.
2752 2013-04-15 21:15:32 i2pRelay has joined
2753 2013-04-15 21:15:36 <gruez> sipa: I thought it would be easier
2754 2013-04-15 21:15:45 <sipa> gruez: i would have expected so too
2755 2013-04-15 21:15:47 <gruez> plus i can verify gitian sigs
2756 2013-04-15 21:17:13 CodesInChaos_ has joined
2757 2013-04-15 21:17:19 <dikidera> gruez:In Windows, where is your compile failing?
2758 2013-04-15 21:17:39 <sipa> dikidera: he's doing a gitian build inside VMware
2759 2013-04-15 21:18:59 <dikidera> If he is using the latest 12.10 ubuntu, it's likely very slow
2760 2013-04-15 21:19:15 <sipa> ?
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2765 2013-04-15 21:19:35 * Luke-Jr wonders if VMWare even supports nested VT-x
2766 2013-04-15 21:19:37 gruez_ is now known as gruez
2767 2013-04-15 21:19:40 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it does
2768 2013-04-15 21:19:43 <gruez> Luke-Jr: it does
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2770 2013-04-15 21:20:50 <gruez> if there was a way to make a build appliance
2771 2013-04-15 21:20:57 <gruez> that would be great
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2774 2013-04-15 21:22:45 <dikidera> gruez:I compiled bitcoind and bitcoin-qt with GCC 4.7.2 under Windows.
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2776 2013-04-15 21:23:09 <gruez> dikidera: the dependencies compile fine
2777 2013-04-15 21:23:13 <gruez> it's the qt that is causing the problem
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2779 2013-04-15 21:23:27 <dikidera> which gcc did you use?
2780 2013-04-15 21:23:32 <gruez> mingw?
2781 2013-04-15 21:23:35 <dikidera> yeah
2782 2013-04-15 21:23:37 <gruez> whatever the latest version is
2783 2013-04-15 21:23:44 <dikidera> and which Qt?
2784 2013-04-15 21:23:49 i2pRelay has joined
2785 2013-04-15 21:23:50 <gruez> dikidera: 5
2786 2013-04-15 21:24:10 <dikidera> did you get the MinGW version one?
2787 2013-04-15 21:24:19 fishfish has joined
2788 2013-04-15 21:24:19 <gruez> I have no idea
2789 2013-04-15 21:24:32 <dikidera> You see, GCC 4.7 has C and C++ ABI changes, so I had to build Qt from source and use that to make bitcoin-qt
2790 2013-04-15 21:24:38 hnz has joined
2791 2013-04-15 21:24:44 <gruez> dikidera: I can get you VNC access to my build VM
2792 2013-04-15 21:24:46 Irencus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2793 2013-04-15 21:24:48 <gruez> if you want to check my config
2794 2013-04-15 21:25:14 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
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2798 2013-04-15 21:26:59 <dikidera> Not sure about Qt 5, but Qt 4.8.4 for MinGW was built with MinGW 4.4, very old toolchain
2799 2013-04-15 21:27:18 <sipa> bitcoin doesn't work with Qt 5
2800 2013-04-15 21:27:47 <dikidera> then gruez must downgrade and compile Qt 4.8.4 from source.
2801 2013-04-15 21:27:55 <gruez> aww
2802 2013-04-15 21:28:07 <dikidera> It takes about an hour or more to build the whole thing
2803 2013-04-15 21:28:12 <sipa> there's a patch for qt5 support to bitcoin, but it will likely not be merged before 0.9
2804 2013-04-15 21:28:13 <dikidera> and you need a few gigs of extra space
2805 2013-04-15 21:28:18 <warren> might be easier to run a linux VM
2806 2013-04-15 21:28:28 <gruez> i'll stick with linux VM atm
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2808 2013-04-15 21:28:32 PartTimeLegend has joined
2809 2013-04-15 21:28:33 <gruez> because I already invested time in it
2810 2013-04-15 21:28:46 qwertyoruiop has joined
2811 2013-04-15 21:28:47 <dikidera> I always try to compile stuff under Windows first
2812 2013-04-15 21:28:57 <dikidera> even managed to compile pushpool under Windows once.
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2821 2013-04-15 21:30:51 alex_fun_afk is now known as alex_fun
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2823 2013-04-15 21:31:44 <dikidera> gruez:Do the official binaries not satisfy your needs?
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2829 2013-04-15 21:32:57 gruez_ is now known as gruez
2830 2013-04-15 21:33:13 <gruez> dikidera: I want to make add some patches to my client
2831 2013-04-15 21:35:13 wallet421 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2832 2013-04-15 21:35:23 <dikidera> well, just to tell you, it's transfering the binary from and to the VM that is the hardest part
2833 2013-04-15 21:35:27 geb has joined
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2835 2013-04-15 21:35:47 geb has joined
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2837 2013-04-15 21:35:59 gruez_ has joined
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2839 2013-04-15 21:36:02 <alex_fun> :)
2840 2013-04-15 21:36:12 gruez_ is now known as gruez
2841 2013-04-15 21:36:27 geb has joined
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2843 2013-04-15 21:36:56 <gruez> sipa: if windows qt has been successfully compiled, I can set "DOWINQT" to 0, right?
2844 2013-04-15 21:36:58 nsillik has joined
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2846 2013-04-15 21:37:05 <sipa> gruez: indeed
2847 2013-04-15 21:37:18 nsillik has joined
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2849 2013-04-15 21:37:27 geb has joined
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2851 2013-04-15 21:37:48 geb has joined
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2853 2013-04-15 21:37:48 <alex_fun> :)
2854 2013-04-15 21:38:05 <alex_fun> the original satoshi code seems simple
2855 2013-04-15 21:38:12 <alex_fun> just a matter of time and reading
2856 2013-04-15 21:38:20 <dikidera> and the new one?
2857 2013-04-15 21:38:32 <alex_fun> its based on satoshi
2858 2013-04-15 21:38:35 bitersweet has joined
2859 2013-04-15 21:38:40 nsillik has quit (Client Quit)
2860 2013-04-15 21:38:43 <[psy]> i wonder how many btc's satoshi has :)
2861 2013-04-15 21:38:45 <gruez> is there a reason why bitcoin-qt is 22 MB?
2862 2013-04-15 21:38:47 geb has joined
2863 2013-04-15 21:39:04 <[psy]> gruez prolly because its 2013 ;)
2864 2013-04-15 21:39:13 <alex_fun> in litecoin source - scrypt is added, few params rest same
2865 2013-04-15 21:39:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2866 2013-04-15 21:39:21 <[psy]> and maybe because its unstripped or something
2867 2013-04-15 21:39:27 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: ping?
2868 2013-04-15 21:39:28 <alex_fun> even renaming is not done some bits are bitcoin some are litecoin :D
2869 2013-04-15 21:39:31 <dikidera> Mine is 8 megabytes
2870 2013-04-15 21:39:40 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2871 2013-04-15 21:39:49 <Luke-Jr> alex_fun: this is #bitcoin-dev
2872 2013-04-15 21:39:50 i2pRelay has joined
2873 2013-04-15 21:39:54 <Goonie_> Like-Jr: pong
2874 2013-04-15 21:40:01 <alex_fun> Luke what what
2875 2013-04-15 21:40:02 <alex_fun> haha
2876 2013-04-15 21:40:20 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: so I rooted my Nexus 7 without backing up the wallet.. any tips on what I could look for in a mirror of the data partition?
2877 2013-04-15 21:40:44 <bitersweet> I'm wondering what would be a next 3 mths future for small miners (<500 MHs/s)...
2878 2013-04-15 21:40:48 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: You mean you erased your private data?
2879 2013-04-15 21:40:49 <alex_fun> Luke-Jr no one is stopping you to incorporate innovations into btc its all open source
2880 2013-04-15 21:40:50 <alex_fun> :)
2881 2013-04-15 21:40:52 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: yes
2882 2013-04-15 21:40:53 * lianj wonders how many actually useful testing txs are in the 68k testnet3 blocks
2883 2013-04-15 21:41:21 <Luke-Jr> alex_fun: my comment was regarding your attempt to derail the topic to scamcoins, which have no innovation
2884 2013-04-15 21:41:36 <alex_fun> Luke_Jr which one u talk about?
2885 2013-04-15 21:41:36 daveluke has joined
2886 2013-04-15 21:41:37 <alex_fun> :)
2887 2013-04-15 21:41:39 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: do you have an image file of the partition?
2888 2013-04-15 21:41:46 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: yep
2889 2013-04-15 21:41:51 pablog has joined
2890 2013-04-15 21:41:51 pablog has quit (Changing host)
2891 2013-04-15 21:41:51 pablog has joined
2892 2013-04-15 21:41:55 <dikidera> Luke-Jr:Wait what?
2893 2013-04-15 21:42:04 <alex_fun> ok litecoins I see :D
2894 2013-04-15 21:42:11 <dikidera> I've upgraded Android many times and never lost a single file.
2895 2013-04-15 21:42:16 <dikidera> You rooted and your wallet is gone?
2896 2013-04-15 21:42:20 <Luke-Jr> yep
2897 2013-04-15 21:42:27 ColinT has joined
2898 2013-04-15 21:42:43 Mordan has joined
2899 2013-04-15 21:43:09 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2900 2013-04-15 21:44:23 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: search for "KEEP YOUR PRIVATE KEYS SAFE!"
2901 2013-04-15 21:44:32 <dikidera> Must've been some weird guide. I once bricked my phone with a bad kernel and had to use Odin to re-flash, still didn't lose anything.
2902 2013-04-15 21:44:36 bitersweet has left ("WeeChat 0.3.7")
2903 2013-04-15 21:44:43 <alex_fun> :)
2904 2013-04-15 21:45:00 <CodeShark> happy birthday Euler: https://blockchain.info/address/11111111LeonhardEu1er111126nxjP
2905 2013-04-15 21:45:03 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: "PRIV" did not occur :/
2906 2013-04-15 21:45:12 gruez has joined
2907 2013-04-15 21:45:32 <gruez> sipa: I set DOWINQT and DOWINBOOST to 0 in your build script
2908 2013-04-15 21:45:43 <gruez> and windows dependencies magically worked
2909 2013-04-15 21:46:14 CodesInChaos has joined
2910 2013-04-15 21:46:34 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: search for "org.bitcoin"
2911 2013-04-15 21:47:21 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2912 2013-04-15 21:47:22 <dikidera> Since phone memories are just flash and stuff, it's quite possible the data was overwritten already
2913 2013-04-15 21:47:52 i2pRelay has joined
2914 2013-04-15 21:48:06 shesek has joined
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2916 2013-04-15 21:48:29 nsillik has joined
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2921 2013-04-15 21:49:09 <warren> Luke-Jr: unlocking the Nexus bootloader is different from rooting other devices (with Odin like dikidera). The boot loader intentionally wipes the non-OS portion of storage for security reasons.
2922 2013-04-15 21:49:11 <Goonie_> dikidera: If you root an android device "officially" (not through an exploit), all private files are removed. this is meant for security.
2923 2013-04-15 21:49:19 nsillik has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2926 2013-04-15 21:49:39 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: still here?
2927 2013-04-15 21:49:43 <Luke-Jr> yeah, grepping
2928 2013-04-15 21:49:44 <dikidera> Goonie_:I don't own a device with a locked bootloader, so..
2929 2013-04-15 21:49:45 qeb has joined
2930 2013-04-15 21:49:48 CodesInChaos_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2931 2013-04-15 21:49:52 <dikidera> My files are still here.
2932 2013-04-15 21:50:17 <dikidera> Files in / since the very first time I purchased the device.
2933 2013-04-15 21:50:34 <dikidera> And since then I've upgraded from GB to ICS and JB
2934 2013-04-15 21:50:56 <warren> dikidera: yes, android power users know this. this doesn't help luke
2935 2013-04-15 21:51:41 nomailin1 has joined
2936 2013-04-15 21:51:54 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2937 2013-04-15 21:55:22 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2938 2013-04-15 21:55:54 i2pRelay has joined
2939 2013-04-15 21:56:40 <helo> my sdcard suddenly started being reported as "corrupted", but then came back... i was luckily able to back up, preserving my 0.1
2940 2013-04-15 21:57:22 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: no results
2941 2013-04-15 21:57:31 <Goonie_> damn
2942 2013-04-15 21:57:32 <helo> it would be ~nice if the app saved a mirrored copy of the wallet on multiple media when possible
2943 2013-04-15 21:57:46 <sipa> there's a backup option
2944 2013-04-15 21:57:54 <warren> Luke-Jr: the boot loader wipes it intentionally. i'm sorry. =(
2945 2013-04-15 21:58:02 <Luke-Jr> warren: secure-delete, though? :/
2946 2013-04-15 21:58:13 <Goonie_> helo: it saves the private keys about a hundred times
2947 2013-04-15 21:58:20 <warren> Luke-Jr: it's supposed to be
2948 2013-04-15 21:58:26 <Luke-Jr> sigh
2949 2013-04-15 21:58:27 Mordan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2950 2013-04-15 21:58:29 <Goonie_> helo: but it cant save to non-private storage
2951 2013-04-15 21:58:34 <Luke-Jr> well, I guess I should just give up on it
2952 2013-04-15 21:58:40 fishfish has quit (Quit: Zzzzz..zzzzz)
2953 2013-04-15 21:58:46 <warren> check the boot loader source, it's supposed to be available
2954 2013-04-15 21:58:55 <helo> Goonie_: ahh, makes sense :/
2955 2013-04-15 21:59:09 <Luke-Jr> if anyone wants to download 14 GB, there's 0.30 BTC available if you can find it..
2956 2013-04-15 21:59:12 <Goonie_> you could try to pattern-match for base58-encoded keys
2957 2013-04-15 21:59:23 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: what key would I be looking for?
2958 2013-04-15 21:59:38 <Luke-Jr> I've tried searching for the ASCII Base58Check-encoded key I sent the coins to..
2959 2013-04-15 22:00:04 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you managed to get an image of the flash?
2960 2013-04-15 22:00:07 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: I mean a pattern that matches private keys
2961 2013-04-15 22:00:08 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yes
2962 2013-04-15 22:00:15 <gmaxwell> and it's still $big compressed? that suggests that it wasn't deleted very well
2963 2013-04-15 22:00:19 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2964 2013-04-15 22:00:21 <Luke-Jr> Goonie_: can't private keys be *anything*?
2965 2013-04-15 22:00:28 <jouke> Luke-Jr: they are in WIF-format
2966 2013-04-15 22:00:40 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: didn't try yet
2967 2013-04-15 22:01:22 daveluke has quit (Quit: daveluke)
2968 2013-04-15 22:01:45 Diapolis has joined
2969 2013-04-15 22:01:57 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: they start with 5 for example, and contain only the 58 base58 chars and have a specific length. Exact details to be determined
2970 2013-04-15 22:02:19 <Goonie_> I think they can also start with 4
2971 2013-04-15 22:02:38 <gmaxwell> You mean 5 L or K?
2972 2013-04-15 22:02:38 <sipa> Goonie_: how do you encode private keys with compressed pubkey?
2973 2013-04-15 22:02:47 <sipa> those are supposed to start with L or K
2974 2013-04-15 22:03:01 Davincij has joined
2975 2013-04-15 22:03:09 <gmaxwell> and why the heck are WIF private keys beginning with L/K for compressed?
2976 2013-04-15 22:03:18 <Goonie_> sipa: actually I don't know, I'm using bitcoinj (-:
2977 2013-04-15 22:03:24 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2978 2013-04-15 22:03:26 * gmaxwell hates byteorder
2979 2013-04-15 22:03:34 <jouke> bitcoinj accepts both
2980 2013-04-15 22:03:38 * [7] seconds that
2981 2013-04-15 22:03:42 <sipa> "both" ?
2982 2013-04-15 22:03:53 nomailin1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2983 2013-04-15 22:03:57 i2pRelay has joined
2984 2013-04-15 22:04:00 <jouke> bitcoij uses both compressed and uncompressed keys
2985 2013-04-15 22:04:03 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2986 2013-04-15 22:04:06 <sipa> yes i know that
2987 2013-04-15 22:04:07 <jouke> *is able to
2988 2013-04-15 22:04:27 <sipa> gmaxwell: well, at leas BIP32 defines a human-recognizable form for its keys :)
2989 2013-04-15 22:04:58 Davincij15 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2990 2013-04-15 22:06:03 <dikidera> jouke:Last I checked the source it preferred compressed over uncompressed
2991 2013-04-15 22:06:11 nomailing1 has joined
2992 2013-04-15 22:06:32 CodesInChaos_ has joined
2993 2013-04-15 22:07:24 wallet42 has joined
2994 2013-04-15 22:08:01 <sipa> for new keys, yes
2995 2013-04-15 22:09:46 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2996 2013-04-15 22:09:58 <warren> Luke-Jr: I would be surprised if you manage to find any surviving keys. If that wipe is insecure delete it defeats the purpose of wiping.
2997 2013-04-15 22:10:27 <alex_fun> we had discussion about public and private keys once however I did not keep the log :)
2998 2013-04-15 22:10:53 btcven has joined
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3000 2013-04-15 22:10:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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3003 2013-04-15 22:11:27 <gmaxwell> warren: yea, I mean, if they did that... whats next, leaving /dev/kmem writable to all users??
3004 2013-04-15 22:11:35 <dikidera> hehe
3005 2013-04-15 22:11:46 <dikidera> Samsung had a hole that allowed something like that
3006 2013-04-15 22:11:56 <dikidera> exynos_mem or something like that
3007 2013-04-15 22:11:59 i2pRelay has joined
3008 2013-04-15 22:12:18 <warren> gmaxwell: that was a different company
3009 2013-04-15 22:12:33 one_zero has joined
3010 2013-04-15 22:13:01 CodesInChaos_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3011 2013-04-15 22:13:10 <dikidera> omg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ku1A5Ox8U
3012 2013-04-15 22:14:11 paracyst has joined
3013 2013-04-15 22:14:42 <alex_fun> how public and private key work? for example if I use key where each letter = some number - say thats my private key how I generate public key that wont give away correspondence of letters and numbers?
3014 2013-04-15 22:14:45 PhantomSpark has joined
3015 2013-04-15 22:14:59 <_dr> dikidera: haha, nice
3016 2013-04-15 22:15:45 btcven has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3017 2013-04-15 22:16:39 <sipa> alex_fun: it's assumed to be exceptionally hard to recover the private key from the public key
3018 2013-04-15 22:17:19 <sipa> (it's assumed to require at least 2^128 operations, though i belive the best-known attacks require 2^140 operations)
3019 2013-04-15 22:19:15 ThomasV has joined
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3024 2013-04-15 22:20:18 MobGod has joined
3025 2013-04-15 22:20:55 <dikidera> Speaking of addresses, this is my very first 1Lk4d1ankFiH6fm7s7yZchmueEoWgzHGQP from my first wallet
3026 2013-04-15 22:21:10 daveluke has joined
3027 2013-04-15 22:21:36 coolsa has joined
3028 2013-04-15 22:21:51 <dikidera> Looking at my payouts, I was making 2 bitcoins per day
3029 2013-04-15 22:23:11 jsfsn has joined
3030 2013-04-15 22:24:21 <wallet42> for compairson: the age of the universe is about 2^59 seconds
3031 2013-04-15 22:24:23 <alex_fun> sipa public key a=3 b=6 private key a=public key a/1 b=public key b/2
3032 2013-04-15 22:24:25 gruez has joined
3033 2013-04-15 22:24:25 <alex_fun> for example
3034 2013-04-15 22:24:45 <alex_fun> hmm wont work lol
3035 2013-04-15 22:24:46 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3036 2013-04-15 22:24:59 <wallet42> RSA uses 2 (large) primes p, q
3037 2013-04-15 22:25:11 <wallet42> the public key is then p * q
3038 2013-04-15 22:25:28 <_dr> that sounds wrong
3039 2013-04-15 22:25:42 <_dr> i think there was some euler-fermat involved ;)
3040 2013-04-15 22:26:23 <CodeShark> the essence of RSA is that knowing p and q, it is easy to compute (p-1)(q-1) - but knowing pq, it is generally considered very hard to compute (p-1)(q-1)
3041 2013-04-15 22:26:35 laCour has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3042 2013-04-15 22:26:36 <sipa> the public key is (p*q, e), with e a chosen but typically small number
3043 2013-04-15 22:26:42 <gruez> sipa, is it possible to modify your build script so it builds whatever is inside bitcoin-build?
3044 2013-04-15 22:26:47 normanrichards has joined
3045 2013-04-15 22:26:50 <sipa> gruez: it does
3046 2013-04-15 22:26:58 <gruez> sipa, really?
3047 2013-04-15 22:27:00 jtimon has joined
3048 2013-04-15 22:27:00 <CodeShark> arithmetic mod pq has an order of (p-1)(q-1)
3049 2013-04-15 22:27:03 <sipa> well, you specify the commit it or branch name
3050 2013-04-15 22:27:03 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I think he means the gitian-fetched URI
3051 2013-04-15 22:27:10 <gruez> what is the second argument for?
3052 2013-04-15 22:27:13 <gruez> oh
3053 2013-04-15 22:27:14 <gruez> ok
3054 2013-04-15 22:27:30 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3055 2013-04-15 22:27:31 <sipa> but you can make even local commits in that directory and have them built
3056 2013-04-15 22:27:34 <CodeShark> a^[(p-1)(q-1)] mod pq = 1
3057 2013-04-15 22:27:42 <CodeShark> for any a coprime with p and q
3058 2013-04-15 22:27:43 <Luke-Jr> sipa: you can?
3059 2013-04-15 22:27:47 smiddi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3060 2013-04-15 22:27:52 <gruez> sipa, I have no idea how to use git :(
3061 2013-04-15 22:28:02 i2pRelay has joined
3062 2013-04-15 22:28:10 <wallet42> http://wheningit.tumblr.com/
3063 2013-04-15 22:28:15 <sipa> gruez: make changes, commit -am "blaaaah", it tells you the commit id
3064 2013-04-15 22:28:23 laCour has joined
3065 2013-04-15 22:28:27 smiddi has joined
3066 2013-04-15 22:28:41 <gruez> sipa, so I go to /bitcoin-build/
3067 2013-04-15 22:28:44 <gruez> then I execute
3068 2013-04-15 22:28:54 <gruez> git commit -am "my commit"
3069 2013-04-15 22:29:01 <sipa> after you made changes, yes
3070 2013-04-15 22:29:05 <gruez> ok
3071 2013-04-15 22:29:21 <sipa> (-a means include any changes to files already in the repository, -m lets you specify the message)
3072 2013-04-15 22:29:28 <CodeShark> the two most important git commands you should know are git log and git reset :)
3073 2013-04-15 22:29:31 <gruez> ok
3074 2013-04-15 22:29:43 <sipa> CodeShark: clearly, git rebase -i is the most important one :p
3075 2013-04-15 22:29:51 <Luke-Jr> I've never used 'git rebase'
3076 2013-04-15 22:30:00 <wallet42> git pull ârebase
3077 2013-04-15 22:30:02 <sipa> i think it's the command i use most :)
3078 2013-04-15 22:30:07 alex_fun has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3079 2013-04-15 22:30:08 <CodeShark> git log shows you where you've been, git reset lets you get back to any point in your history
3080 2013-04-15 22:30:09 nsillik_ has quit (Quit: nsillik_)
3081 2013-04-15 22:30:10 <Luke-Jr> I rebase by hand
3082 2013-04-15 22:30:15 <sipa> Luke-Jr is l33t
3083 2013-04-15 22:30:44 <gruez> sipa, also my build worked, but the hashes doesn't match up to the ones on sourceforge
3084 2013-04-15 22:30:48 nomailing1 has joined
3085 2013-04-15 22:30:49 <gruez> I tried running it
3086 2013-04-15 22:30:51 <sipa> gruez: that's expected
3087 2013-04-15 22:30:54 <gruez> and it runs fine
3088 2013-04-15 22:30:55 <sipa> gruez: unfortunately
3089 2013-04-15 22:31:04 <sipa> the Qt build is non-deterministic, afaik
3090 2013-04-15 22:31:09 <lianj> yes, please never do git pull from upstream of you moved forward on your local master. no one should accept that shit then
3091 2013-04-15 22:31:10 <gruez> oh
3092 2013-04-15 22:31:19 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not because of that
3093 2013-04-15 22:31:28 <sipa> no?
3094 2013-04-15 22:31:32 alex1 has joined
3095 2013-04-15 22:31:34 <jspilman> oh, I missed you guys talking about WIF and compressed keys. Wiki is all out of date on that, but whoever decided compressed keys should use the same version byte, but add a '1' byte after the key... :-(
3096 2013-04-15 22:31:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it's because the SF 0.8.x are signed
3097 2013-04-15 22:31:51 <sipa> jspilman: i decided, but it was Luke-Jr's suggestion!
3098 2013-04-15 22:31:55 <alex1> chat crashed
3099 2013-04-15 22:32:10 <Luke-Jr> <.<
3100 2013-04-15 22:32:11 <gmaxwell> jspilman: why :-( ? They're still just private keys.
3101 2013-04-15 22:32:11 <sipa> jspilman: the reason is that the addresses use one single version, the corresponding keys should also use one single version
3102 2013-04-15 22:32:23 <gruez> Luke-Jr, sipa, is there a reason why the actual windows executables are not signed?
3103 2013-04-15 22:32:34 <sipa> gruez: how do you mean?
3104 2013-04-15 22:32:34 <gruez> most publishers sign the executables as well as the installer
3105 2013-04-15 22:32:53 <sipa> ah
3106 2013-04-15 22:33:00 <sipa> no idea about the binary-signing thing
3107 2013-04-15 22:33:09 melvster has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3108 2013-04-15 22:33:19 <jspilman> why bother with the extra byte then? you can always check the first byte of the key itself at that point
3109 2013-04-15 22:33:27 <sipa> eh, no?
3110 2013-04-15 22:33:36 <jspilman> nevermind
3111 2013-04-15 22:33:36 <sipa> the private key is just 32 bytes or arbitrary data
3112 2013-04-15 22:33:49 <sipa> (almost)
3113 2013-04-15 22:33:52 <CodeShark> hehe
3114 2013-04-15 22:33:56 <CodeShark> I was about to say almost
3115 2013-04-15 22:34:05 <CodeShark> it has an entropy slightly lower than 2^256
3116 2013-04-15 22:34:45 shurnormal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3117 2013-04-15 22:34:49 <CodeShark> group order minus two, yes?
3118 2013-04-15 22:35:07 Diapolis has joined
3119 2013-04-15 22:35:17 <sipa> 31.9999999999999999999999999999999999999993265 bytes, information theory-wise
3120 2013-04-15 22:35:20 daboolez has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3121 2013-04-15 22:35:30 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3122 2013-04-15 22:35:32 alex1 is now known as alex_fun
3123 2013-04-15 22:35:34 <CodeShark> is that what the log comes out to? :)
3124 2013-04-15 22:35:36 qeb has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3125 2013-04-15 22:35:37 <sipa> indeed
3126 2013-04-15 22:36:01 <wallet42> lets say its round about 32
3127 2013-04-15 22:36:03 i2pRelay has joined
3128 2013-04-15 22:36:46 <sipa> deal
3129 2013-04-15 22:37:10 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3130 2013-04-15 22:38:01 nsillik has joined
3131 2013-04-15 22:38:04 <wallet42> FYI on coursera.org there is a free Cryptography I lecture being held right now from Dan Boneh (Stanford)
3132 2013-04-15 22:38:30 * sipa took that course last year
3133 2013-04-15 22:38:42 <gruez> sipa, how do I apply a pull request to my local repository?
3134 2013-04-15 22:38:45 <wallet42> the course is 6 weeks long and covers basic material about cryptogrpahy. if you are interested in bitcoin, basic cryptogrphy might be interesting too
3135 2013-04-15 22:38:55 bibbybob has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3136 2013-04-15 22:39:00 Toresh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3137 2013-04-15 22:39:02 <sipa> wallet42: and i actually got Dan Boneh to review BIP32 :)
3138 2013-04-15 22:39:03 shurnormal has joined
3139 2013-04-15 22:39:12 <Luke-Jr> wallet42: I suggest #bitcoin
3140 2013-04-15 22:39:15 <wallet42> :))
3141 2013-04-15 22:39:31 Toresh has joined
3142 2013-04-15 22:39:43 <wallet42> keep me posted on his answer
3143 2013-04-15 22:40:10 root2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3144 2013-04-15 22:40:59 <dikidera> wallet42:online and video?
3145 2013-04-15 22:41:16 <wallet42> video and slides
3146 2013-04-15 22:41:21 halfie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3147 2013-04-15 22:41:23 <wallet42> and (optional) homework
3148 2013-04-15 22:41:40 <dikidera> darn it
3149 2013-04-15 22:41:48 <dikidera> I hate homework, I barely did any.
3150 2013-04-15 22:42:23 holorga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3151 2013-04-15 22:43:02 neo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3152 2013-04-15 22:43:33 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3153 2013-04-15 22:43:40 halfie has joined
3154 2013-04-15 22:44:05 i2pRelay has joined
3155 2013-04-15 22:44:19 Bohren has joined
3156 2013-04-15 22:45:05 <dikidera> wallet42:Still, good to know :)
3157 2013-04-15 22:46:51 nomailing1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3158 2013-04-15 22:47:10 <jspilman> is BIP32 still being worked over? -- if I recall discussion was around extended public key + address private key => extended private key, and if anything should be "done" about that?
3159 2013-04-15 22:47:39 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3160 2013-04-15 22:48:08 ligar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3161 2013-04-15 22:48:12 Litecoin_Messiah has joined
3162 2013-04-15 22:48:15 nomailing1 has joined
3163 2013-04-15 22:49:05 ligar has joined
3164 2013-04-15 22:49:37 leprosys has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3165 2013-04-15 22:49:48 <jspilman> I see SIPA's "This is considered a weakness, and is planned to be changed." note from Saturday
3166 2013-04-15 22:50:22 <sipa> jspilman: working on it now
3167 2013-04-15 22:51:18 <gruez> holy crap git is complicated
3168 2013-04-15 22:51:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3169 2013-04-15 22:51:37 <sipa> yes it is :)
3170 2013-04-15 22:51:38 <bawr> So. Uh.
3171 2013-04-15 22:51:57 <jspilman> k, I'll wait to see your new CKD
3172 2013-04-15 22:51:58 <gruez> sipa, is there a way to copy paste pull requests?
3173 2013-04-15 22:52:01 <bawr> I see there's support for multisig addresses, but nothing about actually performing multisig transations.
3174 2013-04-15 22:52:05 <bawr> Is this correct?
3175 2013-04-15 22:52:12 i2pRelay has joined
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3177 2013-04-15 22:54:39 <phantomcircuit> bawr, yes
3178 2013-04-15 22:54:53 <phantomcircuit> you have to know what you're doing to use multisig at the moment
3179 2013-04-15 22:54:59 <bawr> okay, test network, here I come
3180 2013-04-15 22:55:02 <phantomcircuit> it's very un-user friendly
3181 2013-04-15 22:55:14 <bawr> anything I want to read to start a stab at it?
3182 2013-04-15 22:55:19 normanrichards has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3183 2013-04-15 22:55:29 <bawr> or do I have to do my own research like everyone else? ;)
3184 2013-04-15 22:55:54 jsfsn has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3185 2013-04-15 22:57:58 <bawr> also wiki seems to say that OP_CHECKMULTISIG has a bug and nukes an extra value from the stack - is this still a problem? and since checkmultisigverify probably uses it as well, is it affected too?
3186 2013-04-15 22:58:07 <sipa> indeed
3187 2013-04-15 22:59:07 <bawr> won't working around that potentially cause scripts to behave differently when the bug is fixed? sounds... decidedly not fun.
3188 2013-04-15 22:59:25 <sipa> bawr: that's why the bug can't be fixed
3189 2013-04-15 22:59:28 <sipa> that would be a hard fork
3190 2013-04-15 22:59:39 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3191 2013-04-15 23:00:05 <bawr> okay, so I just DUP my stack beforehand and not worry about the behaviour changing, right?
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3213 2013-04-15 23:16:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177439.0 < alternative client implementor gravitating towards MOAR CHECKPOINTS as a 'solution' to parallel header download. :(
3214 2013-04-15 23:16:41 orblivion has joined
3215 2013-04-15 23:18:06 <gmaxwell> I think we should target 0.8.2 prior to May 8th, so that it's out before the last may 15th alert.
3216 2013-04-15 23:18:20 <sipa> agree
3217 2013-04-15 23:19:17 <CodeShark> I have actually used reverse-order blockchain downloads in several apps :)
3218 2013-04-15 23:19:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: regarding #2410, can you explain the logic to me?
3219 2013-04-15 23:19:20 <Luke-Jr> would be nice if we could get the backports tested too.. but need to get more gitian builders for the RCs :/
3220 2013-04-15 23:19:47 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i'll build your 0.7 series one; if there really is demand for more, i'll build 0.6 maybe
3221 2013-04-15 23:19:57 jsfsn has joined
3222 2013-04-15 23:20:05 <sipa> but we should encourage upgrading now
3223 2013-04-15 23:20:37 <Luke-Jr> no reason we can't do both
3224 2013-04-15 23:21:08 alex_fun is now known as alex_fun_pizza
3225 2013-04-15 23:21:24 <sipa> if someone has a good reason to stick with pre-0.7, there's no problem, but otherwise it's wasted effort and a bad sign imho
3226 2013-04-15 23:21:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: If bdb has _any_ error it returns DB_VERIFY_BAD, including an error of "duplicate records" which inevitably happens when you try to salvage almost any old wallet file that has unvacuumed cruft in it.
3227 2013-04-15 23:21:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: e.g. my own main online wallet, which is perfectly healthy cannot be salvaged because of duplicated objects in it.
3228 2013-04-15 23:22:37 <sipa> and when is fAggressive set?
3229 2013-04-15 23:22:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: as far as testing it goesâ well, I agree: but I don't know what kind of result to consider a pass: by fuzzing bdb files it's not hard to make bdb crash... but thats through no fault of our code.
3230 2013-04-15 23:22:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: when you've requested salvage wallet on the commandline, IIRC /me checks
3231 2013-04-15 23:23:17 <sipa> it seems like a change we really need, but i'm too vague on the salvaging details to comment
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3233 2013-04-15 23:24:10 <gmaxwell> I think without it or something substantially similar salvage is mostly useless... but it's not complete by itself. If you salvage an encrypted wallet you'll come up without a keypool and that dies elsewhere.
3234 2013-04-15 23:24:17 i2pRelay has joined
3235 2013-04-15 23:24:41 <gmaxwell> I have a patch that ignores that but I haven't pull requested it because I think I really need to go all through the codebase and figure out if its safe or not.
3236 2013-04-15 23:25:38 <sipa> can't we just get rid of the default key...
3237 2013-04-15 23:25:39 ielo has joined
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3239 2013-04-15 23:26:32 <gmaxwell> or that. I actually had someone complain about setting an account on the default key consuming keys from the keypool (because it pulls a new default)
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3245 2013-04-15 23:28:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: ah, checking the current code it appears that we always call salvage with agressive anytime we actually call it.
3246 2013-04-15 23:28:07 jeffreywlai is now known as Azetab
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3248 2013-04-15 23:29:38 <sipa> i wish there was a mode that did the same thing as db4.8_load <file | db4.8_dump >file2
3249 2013-04-15 23:29:40 gruez has joined
3250 2013-04-15 23:29:47 <sipa> and didn't wipe transactions or anything
3251 2013-04-15 23:29:59 <sipa> i've found that that usually repairs wallets perfectly
3252 2013-04-15 23:30:24 <sipa> i.e., that it's just a missing/wrong log pointer that's missing, but all actual changes are committed to the wallet
3253 2013-04-15 23:30:36 <gruez> what does "gbuild --commit" do?
3254 2013-04-15 23:30:39 <sipa> or some other weird environment grap
3255 2013-04-15 23:30:40 johnsoft has joined
3256 2013-04-15 23:30:46 <sipa> gruez: specify a commit to build
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3258 2013-04-15 23:30:54 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
3259 2013-04-15 23:30:59 <gruez> sipa: what if i don't specify it?
3260 2013-04-15 23:31:07 <gruez> does it build whatever is in the directory?
3261 2013-04-15 23:31:12 <sipa> then it will say that it doesn't know what to build
3262 2013-04-15 23:31:39 <gruez> aww what
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3267 2013-04-15 23:33:40 johnsoft1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3268 2013-04-15 23:34:55 <gruez> sipa: it says here: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
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3270 2013-04-15 23:35:03 <gruez> that --commit is not required
3271 2013-04-15 23:36:04 <sipa> it says that it's needed if there are remotes
3272 2013-04-15 23:36:06 <sipa> there is one
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3274 2013-04-15 23:37:54 <gruez> sipa: is it possible to build a specific branch?
3275 2013-04-15 23:38:00 Silverion has joined
3276 2013-04-15 23:38:04 <gruez> i tried specifying branch as a parameter to the script
3277 2013-04-15 23:38:06 <gruez> but it fails
3278 2013-04-15 23:38:56 <sipa> that should work
3279 2013-04-15 23:38:58 Diapolis has joined
3280 2013-04-15 23:39:02 <sipa> what did you specify?
3281 2013-04-15 23:39:30 <gruez> sipa: git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
3282 2013-04-15 23:39:35 <gruez> renamed bitcoin to bitcoin-build
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3284 2013-04-15 23:39:54 <gruez> ./bitcoin-build.sh <branch>
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3286 2013-04-15 23:40:18 <sipa> but what is <branch> ?
3287 2013-04-15 23:40:20 i2pRelay has joined
3288 2013-04-15 23:40:32 <sipa> which branch did you specify?
3289 2013-04-15 23:40:37 <sipa> one that existed locally?
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3291 2013-04-15 23:41:07 <gruez> <sipa> one that existed locally?
3292 2013-04-15 23:41:17 <gruez> you have to clone a specific branch?
3293 2013-04-15 23:41:20 <sipa> no
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3295 2013-04-15 23:41:28 <sipa> you clone all branches
3296 2013-04-15 23:41:34 <Luke-Jr> you have to have the right branch checked out
3297 2013-04-15 23:41:35 <sipa> but what exact command did you give?
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3299 2013-04-15 23:41:59 <sipa> also, i'm not sure the script works with branchnames in the specification
3300 2013-04-15 23:42:01 <sipa> let me test
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3303 2013-04-15 23:43:00 alex_fun_pizza is now known as alex-fun
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3306 2013-04-15 23:43:15 <sipa> nope, doesn't work, sorry
3307 2013-04-15 23:43:19 <gruez> oh
3308 2013-04-15 23:43:20 <gruez> ok
3309 2013-04-15 23:43:20 <sipa> just specify the commit id
3310 2013-04-15 23:43:44 <sipa> git show <branch> will show you the top commit
3311 2013-04-15 23:44:03 <gruez> ok
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3314 2013-04-15 23:46:05 <bawr> is there any tool I can use to show a hex redeem script in a friendlier format?
3315 2013-04-15 23:46:11 <bawr> my google-fu is weak.
3316 2013-04-15 23:46:18 <sipa> bitcoind decoderawtransaction <hex>
3317 2013-04-15 23:46:35 <bawr> it also does scripts? neat.
3318 2013-04-15 23:47:00 <sipa> oh, only whole transactions
3319 2013-04-15 23:47:06 <sipa> but it also decodes the scripts inside
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3321 2013-04-15 23:47:28 <bawr> ah
3322 2013-04-15 23:47:46 <bawr> well I'm trying to look at the default script of a multisign address.
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3336 2013-04-15 23:57:14 <bawr> sipa: yeah, it blanks the asm and hex fields inside the decoded scriptSig
3337 2013-04-15 23:57:41 <bawr> ah wait
3338 2013-04-15 23:57:51 <bawr> silly me, looked at the wrong entry