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5 2013-04-17 00:07:36 <sipa> saivann: :)
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12 2013-04-17 00:13:39 <sipa> saivann: there are several pages though that i have no idea about how to reach, except through the url :)
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23 2013-04-17 00:20:40 <saivann> sipa : Hum? You are not able to reach some pages?
24 2013-04-17 00:22:52 <sipa> saivann: i'm sure I can, but I haven't spent that much time browsing through the English pages
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26 2013-04-17 00:23:19 <sipa> I just mean that I notice some text in the Dutch transaction that I don't recognize, so I need to type the URL to find it
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31 2013-04-17 00:24:16 <saivann> sipa : I've just published a live nl demo, that should make this easier for the review
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33 2013-04-17 00:24:40 <saivann> sipa: http://bitcoinnl.us.to/nl
34 2013-04-17 00:25:07 <saivann> sipa: You can switch between en/nl on each page using the language bar
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46 2013-04-17 00:36:58 <sipa> saivann: just read through the whole thing on github
47 2013-04-17 00:37:19 <saivann> sipa: Amazing job
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53 2013-04-17 00:41:14 <sipa> took me longer than expected, though :)
54 2013-04-17 00:41:41 <saivann> sipa : That's why I smile when people say "The website only contains 2 or 3 pages with short bullet points"
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62 2013-04-17 00:49:07 <Jere_Jones> sipa: I love http://bitcoinnl.us.to/nl/bitcoin-voor-liefhebbers
63 2013-04-17 00:51:05 <sipa> Jere_Jones: i only found 2 typos on that page :)
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66 2013-04-17 00:51:34 <gruez> is there a reason why bitcoin refuses to build on visual c++?
67 2013-04-17 00:51:50 <gruez> is it just a matter of configuration, or is there something more??
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70 2013-04-17 00:53:38 <Luke-Jr> gruez: you tell us, nobody else even tries
71 2013-04-17 00:54:27 <gruez> does bitcoin use some weird POSIX specific stuff?
72 2013-04-17 00:54:33 <HM2> lol
73 2013-04-17 00:54:38 <gruez> or some non standard c++ features?
74 2013-04-17 00:55:16 <sipa> i doubt that
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76 2013-04-17 00:55:39 <sipa> i think it's mostly a matter of dependencies and configuration
77 2013-04-17 00:55:43 <sipa> but i wouldn't know
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79 2013-04-17 00:56:02 <sipa> there is certainly posix specific stuff, but it's not used for builds on windows
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90 2013-04-17 01:11:47 <ashod> hello all
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92 2013-04-17 01:13:30 <jspilman> hey sipa - saw yours update to BIP32, nice addition, very clear
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94 2013-04-17 01:14:45 <jspilman> was also looking at BIP38 (password encrypted privkey), wondering if the xprv serialization should have an encryption option baked in
95 2013-04-17 01:15:12 <sipa> "meh"
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97 2013-04-17 01:15:29 <sipa> perhaps a later extension
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100 2013-04-17 01:17:05 <gmaxwell> obviously it has to wait until the https://password-hashing.net/ finishes.
101 2013-04-17 01:17:13 <jspilman> hah
102 2013-04-17 01:17:37 <jspilman> that's not for some time, but was about to say, all you need to do is pick a KDF
103 2013-04-17 01:18:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: heh, should i submit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102349.0 to it?
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108 2013-04-17 01:20:11 <jspilman> the variable-strength is not something that's come up on the mailing list so far, would be interesting what they think of that
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111 2013-04-17 01:21:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: I think you should, in fact.
112 2013-04-17 01:22:09 <gmaxwell> It's not quite what they're looking forâ I think, but it's a useful idea for our purposes. (we don't really want it for passwords, we want it for compact high entropy seeds which are resistant to imperfect use)...
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273 2013-04-17 04:24:13 <zyocoin> Is anyone here working on colored coin implements?
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291 2013-04-17 04:43:46 <muhoo> colored?
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302 2013-04-17 04:55:03 <richcollins> Is there any way to cancel the broadcast of a tx before it is sent?
303 2013-04-17 04:55:18 <richcollins> I used bitpay for a payment. It has invoices that expire
304 2013-04-17 04:55:31 <richcollins> my tx is queued but the invoice expired so my BTC is about to go into a black hole
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308 2013-04-17 04:57:08 <gmaxwell> transactions are broacast instantly
309 2013-04-17 04:57:25 <gmaxwell> Your funds won't go into a black hole... I'm sure bitpay will be able to refund you.
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312 2013-04-17 04:59:33 <richcollins> gmaxwell: except it wasn't in this case
313 2013-04-17 04:59:43 <richcollins> It didn't send it until I restarted bitcoin-qt
314 2013-04-17 05:00:23 <richcollins> The 15 minute invoice expired ...
315 2013-04-17 05:01:10 <richcollins> gmaxwell: Does it not send while syncing?
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339 2013-04-17 05:25:22 <Garr255> richcollins, the bit-pay invoice just recalculates every 15 minutes
340 2013-04-17 05:25:28 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
341 2013-04-17 05:25:36 <Garr255> it just means you might have to send more btc if btc/usd goes dow
342 2013-04-17 05:25:39 <Garr255> n
343 2013-04-17 05:25:49 <richcollins> Garr255: right but I already queued tx in bitcoin-qt
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346 2013-04-17 05:25:54 <richcollins> and there is no way to undo that
347 2013-04-17 05:26:03 <richcollins> looks like it worked even though invoice expired though
348 2013-04-17 05:26:06 <richcollins> merchant confirmed
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364 2013-04-17 05:51:04 <gjs278> richcollins who ya paying, they can check it too
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370 2013-04-17 05:59:20 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|Can scripts have a time aspect? As in, only spendable in x time?
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377 2013-04-17 06:00:12 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|Or, for that matter, not spendable after x time?
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466 2013-04-17 07:34:34 <Garr255> can someone help me here?
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473 2013-04-17 07:36:06 <nsh> Garr255, don't ask to ask. give as much information about what you want help with as possible and wait a respectable amount of time for someone who might know to read and answer
474 2013-04-17 07:37:13 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
475 2013-04-17 07:37:15 <Garr255> nsh, I asked less prepared than I intended. I meant to follow up with this three seocnds later :P
476 2013-04-17 07:37:17 <Garr255> http://pastebin.com/NFbKCUj4
477 2013-04-17 07:37:44 NZGlitch has joined
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479 2013-04-17 07:38:04 <Garr255> ^ output of mingw32-make -j8 -f makefile.mingw
480 2013-04-17 07:39:34 meLon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
481 2013-04-17 07:40:19 thunderrd has joined
482 2013-04-17 07:40:32 <Garr255> C:\GarrCoin2-0.8.1\src>mingw32-make -j8 -f makefile.mingw -> help.txt
483 2013-04-17 07:40:32 <Garr255> c:/mingw/bin/../lib/gcc/mingw32/4.6.2/../../../../mingw32/bin/ld.exe: cannot fin
484 2013-04-17 07:40:32 <Garr255> d -ldb_cxx
485 2013-04-17 07:40:32 <Garr255> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
486 2013-04-17 07:40:32 <Garr255> mingw32-make: *** [garrcoind.exe] Error 1
487 2013-04-17 07:41:19 <Impaler> hey Garr
488 2013-04-17 07:41:31 <Impaler> whats the story of your Garrcoin?
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522 2013-04-17 08:14:22 <Garr255> someone help with this please!
523 2013-04-17 08:14:24 <Garr255> C:\GarrCoin2-0.8.1\src>mingw32-make -j8 -f makefile.mingw
524 2013-04-17 08:14:24 <Garr255> g++ -mthreads -O2 -w -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parame
525 2013-04-17 08:14:24 <Garr255> ter -g -DWIN32 -D_WINDOWS -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE -DUSE
526 2013-04-17 08:14:24 <Garr255> _IPV6=1 -IC:/GarrCoin2-0.8.1/src/leveldb/include -IC:/GarrCoin2-0.8.1/src/leveld
527 2013-04-17 08:14:24 <Garr255> b/helpers -I"C:/GarrCoin2-0.8.1/src" -I"c:/boost_1_53_0" -I"c:/db-4.8.30.NC" -I"
528 2013-04-17 08:14:26 <Garr255> c:/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" -I"c:/openssl-1.0.1e/include" -Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,
529 2013-04-17 08:14:28 <Garr255> --nxcompat -Wl,--large-address-aware -static -o garrcoind.exe -L"C:/GarrCoin2-0.
530 2013-04-17 08:14:30 <Garr255> 8.1/src/leveldb" -L"c:/boost_1_53_0/stage/lib" -L"c:/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" -L
531 2013-04-17 08:14:32 <Garr255> "c:/openssl-1.0.1e" -L"C:/Users/Garrett" leveldb/libleveldb.a obj/alert.o obj/ve
532 2013-04-17 08:14:34 <Garr255> rsion.o obj/checkpoints.o obj/netbase.o obj/addrman.o obj/crypter.o obj/key.o ob
533 2013-04-17 08:14:36 <Garr255> j/db.o obj/init.o obj/irc.o obj/keystore.o obj/main.o obj/net.o obj/protocol.o o
534 2013-04-17 08:14:38 <Garr255> bj/bitcoinrpc.o obj/rpcdump.o obj/rpcnet.o obj/rpcmining.o obj/rpcwallet.o obj/r
535 2013-04-17 08:14:39 <Garr255> pcblockchain.o obj/rpcrawtransaction.o obj/script.o obj/sync.o obj/util.o obj/wa
536 2013-04-17 08:14:42 <Garr255> llet.o obj/walletdb.o obj/hash.o obj/bloom.o obj/noui.o obj/leveldb.o obj/txdb.o
537 2013-04-17 08:14:44 <Garr255> -l leveldb -l memenv -l boost_system-mgw46-mt-sd-1_53 -l boost_filesystem-mgw46
538 2013-04-17 08:14:48 <Garr255> -mt-sd-1_53 -l boost_program_options-mgw46-mt-sd-1_53 -l boost_thread-mgw46-mt-s
539 2013-04-17 08:14:49 <Garr255> d-1_53 -l boost_chrono-mgw46-mt-sd-1_53 -l db_cxx -l ssl -l crypto -l kernel32
540 2013-04-17 08:14:51 <Garr255> -l user32 -l gdi32 -l comdlg32 -l winspool -l winmm -l shell32 -l comctl32 -l ol
541 2013-04-17 08:14:54 <Garr255> e32 -l oleaut32 -l uuid -l rpcrt4 -l advapi32 -l ws2_32 -l mswsock -l shlwapi
542 2013-04-17 08:14:55 <Garr255> c:/mingw/bin/../lib/gcc/mingw32/4.6.2/../../../../mingw32/bin/ld.exe: cannot fin
543 2013-04-17 08:14:57 <Garr255> d -ldb_cxx
544 2013-04-17 08:14:59 <Garr255> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
545 2013-04-17 08:15:02 <Garr255> mingw32-make: *** [garrcoind.exe] Error 1
546 2013-04-17 08:15:04 <Garr255> no matter where I put the library, I cannot get the compiler to recognize it.
547 2013-04-17 08:15:19 <n1c> Probably best to put that in a pastebin.
548 2013-04-17 08:15:32 <Garr255> I was going to apologize in advance for that... :P
549 2013-04-17 08:15:58 <SomeoneWeird> :\
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563 2013-04-17 08:27:18 <Luke-Jr> ⦠that's not what "in advance" means =.=
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575 2013-04-17 08:37:29 <ThomasV> bitcoind importprivkey <privkey> will leave the private key in bash_history. is there a protection against that?
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581 2013-04-17 08:42:56 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: the testing usage is just for testing. the RPC server is mainly intended to be used via JSON-RPC libraries from some code you've written
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583 2013-04-17 08:43:22 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: that being said, at least on my system, starting a command with a space suppresses logging it in history
584 2013-04-17 08:43:33 <Luke-Jr> also, Bitcoin-Qt's Debug window I think has a clear history thing
585 2013-04-17 08:44:12 <Luke-Jr> note that even if it's hidden in history, while the command is running other users logged into the system can likely see it in ps
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587 2013-04-17 08:45:11 <kinlo> ThomasV: there are plenty of options for that. If you use bash you can use HISTIGNORE="*importprivkey*"
588 2013-04-17 08:45:27 <kinlo> that will tell bash not to record lines containing importprivkey
589 2013-04-17 08:45:31 stepdad has joined
590 2013-04-17 08:45:58 <stepdad> Does anyone use an embedded miner in a website?
591 2013-04-17 08:45:59 <kinlo> or use HISTCONTROL=ignorespace
592 2013-04-17 08:46:01 <stepdad> I'm looking at implementing one
593 2013-04-17 08:46:03 robbak has joined
594 2013-04-17 08:46:05 <kinlo> and prepend your command with a space
595 2013-04-17 08:46:19 <ThomasV> I'm asking this not for my own use, but as a general security consideration. electrum has a console window that records history, and the same issue has been raised
596 2013-04-17 08:46:32 <ThomasV> so I don't know what policy to adopt
597 2013-04-17 08:46:40 <kinlo> stepdad: is opencl already available for webbrowsers?
598 2013-04-17 08:47:11 <kinlo> ThomasV: I'd say - since you know the commands as you are making them - that you indicate each command on what/how to store parameters
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600 2013-04-17 08:47:21 <kinlo> so you could get import in history, but not the private key
601 2013-04-17 08:47:31 <ThomasV> yes
602 2013-04-17 08:47:42 <ThomasV> I guess it could redact the privkey
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647 2013-04-17 09:35:51 InvaderZim has joined
648 2013-04-17 09:36:34 <InvaderZim> Good Morning Everyone, it is 5:13am here, I know...I should be Asleep still.
649 2013-04-17 09:36:36 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
650 2013-04-17 09:37:33 <InvaderZim> I have access to a Bitcoin Hashing Library that allows me to retrieve the Nonce after I feed it the Data, MidState and the Target.
651 2013-04-17 09:37:46 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
652 2013-04-17 09:38:11 <InvaderZim> However, that library wasn't complete, it didn't include the final Hashing Algorthim needed to send through the Pool.
653 2013-04-17 09:38:23 i2pRelay has joined
654 2013-04-17 09:38:46 <InvaderZim> My question is, how to "calculate" the Final Hash once the Nonce has been found ?
655 2013-04-17 09:40:54 <sipa> ... by hashing it?
656 2013-04-17 09:41:25 <InvaderZim> Hello Sipa
657 2013-04-17 09:41:37 <InvaderZim> Good Morning from Providence!
658 2013-04-17 09:41:54 <sipa> i mean, mining is the process of taking your input, combining it with a nonce, hashing that, and checking whether it results in a hash lower than the target
659 2013-04-17 09:42:00 <sipa> there is no way that it doesn't have the hash...
660 2013-04-17 09:42:06 nowan has joined
661 2013-04-17 09:42:25 <InvaderZim> The Library is Black Boxed :(
662 2013-04-17 09:42:26 <sipa> it may do some optimizations to not actually calculate the full hash - some OpenCL implementations do that, afaik
663 2013-04-17 09:42:39 <InvaderZim> But it does "Pops" out the Solved Nonce.
664 2013-04-17 09:42:55 <InvaderZim> I was hoping that now the Nonce is found, I can redo the "Black Box's" final step.
665 2013-04-17 09:43:01 <sipa> sure you can
666 2013-04-17 09:43:19 <sipa> take the data, substitute the nonce in it, double-SHA256 it, done
667 2013-04-17 09:43:24 new299_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
668 2013-04-17 09:43:41 <InvaderZim> Ok, Let's use a simple idea.
669 2013-04-17 09:43:51 <InvaderZim> Say the Data is: 12345678910
670 2013-04-17 09:43:58 <InvaderZim> And the Nonce is: 2
671 2013-04-17 09:44:08 <InvaderZim> Go ;p
672 2013-04-17 09:44:15 <InvaderZim> Teach me ;p
673 2013-04-17 09:44:26 new299_ has joined
674 2013-04-17 09:44:51 <InvaderZim> I understand the Nonce is 152 characters INTO the data.
675 2013-04-17 09:45:08 <InvaderZim> Which means 153 Characters onwards would be where the nonce is.
676 2013-04-17 09:45:26 <sipa> teach yourself
677 2013-04-17 09:45:32 <sipa> i can give you pointers, though
678 2013-04-17 09:45:45 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
679 2013-04-17 09:45:49 <InvaderZim> When I replace the zeros with the nonce...Do I replace replace it with the Nonce say 52423[for example].
680 2013-04-17 09:45:49 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
681 2013-04-17 09:46:27 i2pRelay has joined
682 2013-04-17 09:46:29 <InvaderZim> Or the Hexidecimal Version of 52423 ? which in this case is CCC7 ?
683 2013-04-17 09:46:39 Hasimir has joined
684 2013-04-17 09:46:44 <sipa> the block header is 80 bytes, binary
685 2013-04-17 09:46:56 <sipa> the 'data' is a hex-encoded and padded version of the data
686 2013-04-17 09:47:41 <sipa> if you'd want to pass it on to a sha256 routine, just take the first 160 characters, convert them to binary, substitute the last 4 by the nonce (encoded in little endian), and double-sha256 it
687 2013-04-17 09:47:58 <sipa> in the end, i think you need to do a byteswap before printing/interpreting the number
688 2013-04-17 09:48:23 <InvaderZim> I am reading your words like the Bible now
689 2013-04-17 09:48:28 <InvaderZim> Hold on...Digesting...
690 2013-04-17 09:50:08 clarkm has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
691 2013-04-17 09:50:58 <InvaderZim> If you don't mind Sipa
692 2013-04-17 09:51:24 <InvaderZim> I will do a Paste bin to show you a Human psedu-code version of what you are saying now
693 2013-04-17 09:51:40 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
694 2013-04-17 09:53:18 <cyphase> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/web-payments-with-payswarm-identity-part-1-of-3/
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706 2013-04-17 09:59:46 <InvaderZim> Sipa here you go, Attached in it is my following question.
707 2013-04-17 09:59:46 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/jNFAbqyJ
708 2013-04-17 10:01:18 <InvaderZim> Thanks in Advance Sipa, I understand you are shaking your head now at my lack of understanding, I will digest everything that you are saying now.
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717 2013-04-17 10:08:32 <Braden`> Hello
718 2013-04-17 10:08:49 <InvaderZim> Hello
719 2013-04-17 10:08:51 <InvaderZim> Sipa
720 2013-04-17 10:08:55 <InvaderZim> I got good news
721 2013-04-17 10:09:04 <Braden`> Does anyone know if its possible to trade bitcoins using MetaTrader 4?
722 2013-04-17 10:09:10 <rdymac> Gir
723 2013-04-17 10:09:16 <InvaderZim> The Black Boxed Library Did have a function that retrieve the last hash.
724 2013-04-17 10:09:31 <InvaderZim> But the Last hash [based on the solved nonce] is f8c8100295b648e1528f5007b9de64a353563266ae65817d359b9e4a00000000
725 2013-04-17 10:09:51 <sipa> 11:25:39 < sipa> in the end, i think you need to do a byteswap before printing/interpreting the number
726 2013-04-17 10:09:52 <InvaderZim> This is No where as long as the required Hash needed to send to the Pool
727 2013-04-17 10:09:59 <InvaderZim> What is wrong here ?
728 2013-04-17 10:10:00 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
729 2013-04-17 10:10:06 <sipa> looks perfectly right to me
730 2013-04-17 10:10:14 <rdymac> InvaderZim: http://f.cl.ly/items/3L1B2s2t0X13353i033p/gir_loves_bitcoin.png
731 2013-04-17 10:10:20 <sipa> you don't send a hash to the pool, but the whole block header
732 2013-04-17 10:10:29 <sipa> i.e., data with the nonce substituted
733 2013-04-17 10:10:31 <InvaderZim> ARH THAT IS SO COOL!
734 2013-04-17 10:10:41 <InvaderZim> Can I use that as my wallpaper ?!
735 2013-04-17 10:10:42 i2pRelay has joined
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737 2013-04-17 10:11:40 <rdymac> I can give you the vector if you want
738 2013-04-17 10:12:03 <InvaderZim> Sipa, you mentioned it looks about right
739 2013-04-17 10:12:04 <jsfsn> Interesting post: http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/the-well-deserved-fortune-of-satoshi-nakamoto/
740 2013-04-17 10:12:07 <InvaderZim> But the result is this:
741 2013-04-17 10:12:08 <InvaderZim> {"method":"getwork","params":["f8c8100295b648e1528f5007b9de64a353563266ae65817d359b9e4a00000000"],"id":1}
742 2013-04-17 10:12:20 <InvaderZim> Isn't this hash too erm "Short ?"
743 2013-04-17 10:12:42 <InvaderZim> Isn't it suppose to be something crazy like "0000000141a0e898cf6554fd344a37b2917a6c7a6561c20733b09c8000009eef00000000d559e21 882efc6f76bbfad4cd13639f4067cd904fe4ecc3351dc9cc5358f1cd54db84e7a1b00b5acba97b6 0400000080000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000080020000"
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747 2013-04-17 10:14:42 <sipa> 11:48:00 < sipa> you don't send a hash to the pool, but the whole block header
748 2013-04-17 10:14:45 <sipa> 11:48:09 < sipa> i.e., data with the nonce substituted
749 2013-04-17 10:14:46 <InvaderZim> I would love to have it rdymac
750 2013-04-17 10:15:39 n5 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
751 2013-04-17 10:15:42 <InvaderZim> Ok...so ...does the "last hash" that that Black Box Library allow me to see, the "f8c8100295b648e1528f5007b9de64a353563266ae65817d359b9e4a00000000" useful in anyway ?
752 2013-04-17 10:15:56 <sipa> 11:52:23 < sipa> 11:48:09 < sipa> i.e., data with the nonce substituted
753 2013-04-17 10:16:00 <sipa> it's trivial!
754 2013-04-17 10:16:05 <sipa> take the data, put the nonce in, DONE
755 2013-04-17 10:16:21 <sipa> you don't send the hash
756 2013-04-17 10:16:25 <InvaderZim> So the Last Hash here is useless
757 2013-04-17 10:16:26 <InvaderZim> Ok Ok
758 2013-04-17 10:16:26 <sipa> you send what needs to be hashed
759 2013-04-17 10:16:27 <InvaderZim> Got it
760 2013-04-17 10:16:43 <InvaderZim> So...
761 2013-04-17 10:16:50 <InvaderZim> I just "put the nonce in".
762 2013-04-17 10:17:07 <InvaderZim> So from my end as a Library user, I don't need to do ANY calculation at all.
763 2013-04-17 10:17:44 <InvaderZim> Just a simple "Substite String" function to replace the nonce from the Source data with the Actual Solved Nonce That's all.
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768 2013-04-17 10:18:51 <InvaderZim> The question will be "Where do I put the Nonce [After How Many Characters into the Source Data]"
769 2013-04-17 10:19:00 stalled has joined
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771 2013-04-17 10:19:17 <InvaderZim> and What form does it take ? Numeric ? Like 2809801765 ?
772 2013-04-17 10:19:29 <sipa> InvaderZim: please, i've already given you all information 10 times over
773 2013-04-17 10:19:50 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
774 2013-04-17 10:20:06 <sipa> if you can't do it with that, you may want to learn a few things before tackling this
775 2013-04-17 10:23:32 NZGlitch has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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777 2013-04-17 10:25:18 <InvaderZim> In the Link you send me The Header_Hex contains 161 Characters
778 2013-04-17 10:25:27 rdymac has joined
779 2013-04-17 10:25:52 <InvaderZim> A typical Data from getwork is 256 Characters :(
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781 2013-04-17 10:26:04 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
782 2013-04-17 10:26:13 <InvaderZim> So the first 161 Character of the Source Data Hash is the Header ex ?
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795 2013-04-17 10:38:33 <jonass> is the pull-tester source code open source or somewhere available?
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799 2013-04-17 10:39:58 <sipa> InvaderZim: this is the last time i repeat it
800 2013-04-17 10:39:58 <Braden`> Does anyone know if its possible to trade bitcoins using MetaTrader 4?
801 2013-04-17 10:40:09 <sipa> 11:24:24 < sipa> the block header is 80 bytes, binary
802 2013-04-17 10:40:09 <sipa> 11:24:36 < sipa> the 'data' is a hex-encoded and padded version of the data
803 2013-04-17 10:40:09 <sipa> 11:25:21 < sipa> if you'd want to pass it on to a sha256 routine, just take the first 160 characters, convert them to binary, substitute the last 4 by the nonce (encoded in little endian), and double-sha256 it
804 2013-04-17 10:40:20 <upb> Braden`: on an exchange?
805 2013-04-17 10:40:28 <InvaderZim> Ok, I am writing my own little code to do that now.
806 2013-04-17 10:40:36 <Braden`> upb: Yea
807 2013-04-17 10:40:51 <upb> it would be possible to hack mtgox feed into mt4 and also make a proxy for mtgox trading interface etc
808 2013-04-17 10:40:56 <upb> dunno if anyone has already done it
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810 2013-04-17 10:41:09 <InvaderZim> I am sorry to piss you off, I am really trying, I am a very slow learner.
811 2013-04-17 10:41:17 <Braden`> I would be surprised if someone hasn't yet. I know its possible to create mt4 extensions that do that
812 2013-04-17 10:41:36 <upb> yep i thought about doing that in 2011 but was too lazy ;P
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827 2013-04-17 10:54:48 <InvaderZim> hashlib.sha256(header_bin).digest()
828 2013-04-17 10:54:57 <InvaderZim> What does the "Digest()" means ?
829 2013-04-17 10:55:08 <Scrat> it finalizes the hash
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831 2013-04-17 10:56:25 <InvaderZim> ok...
832 2013-04-17 10:56:48 <InvaderZim> Man...because if .Digest isn't call the Hash...wouldn't be Finalized ?
833 2013-04-17 10:57:25 <InvaderZim> Now it have even more questions, how does an unfinalized Sha256 looks like and why would a function be created that need another call just to finish it.
834 2013-04-17 10:58:02 <Scrat> because most hash libs have a streaming mode where you just feed it data
835 2013-04-17 10:58:09 <Scrat> you need to finalize it when you're done
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838 2013-04-17 10:59:17 <InvaderZim> ok
839 2013-04-17 10:59:18 <InvaderZim> Thanks
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882 2013-04-17 11:18:22 <[joe_k]> could be lots of data
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932 2013-04-17 12:15:05 <InvaderZim> Hello
933 2013-04-17 12:15:13 <InvaderZim> I am attempting to implement this
934 2013-04-17 12:15:22 <InvaderZim> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
935 2013-04-17 12:15:56 <InvaderZim> I am not using Python, I am using Another Language and Here is the Output so far.
936 2013-04-17 12:16:01 <InvaderZim> Can someone verify this for me ?
937 2013-04-17 12:16:05 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/Eg9pP3uY
938 2013-04-17 12:16:23 <InvaderZim> Is the result of my second SHA256 correct ?
939 2013-04-17 12:17:25 <InvaderZim> Sipa, if you are still here, I have been working on breaking down the fomula you send me in that site, this is the result so far.
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941 2013-04-17 12:18:27 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
942 2013-04-17 12:18:43 skywalk has quit ()
943 2013-04-17 12:18:58 i2pRelay has joined
944 2013-04-17 12:19:43 <InvaderZim> I am "SHA-ing" the Binary.
945 2013-04-17 12:19:52 <InvaderZim> I am not sure if That is the right thing to do.
946 2013-04-17 12:20:29 moore has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
947 2013-04-17 12:23:21 <sipa> InvaderZim: binary means "8-bit values encoded as bytes", not "each bit encoded as a single character"
948 2013-04-17 12:23:44 <Lolcust> !seen killerstorm
949 2013-04-17 12:23:45 <gribble> killerstorm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 17 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <killerstorm> stealth222: thanks!
950 2013-04-17 12:23:46 taha has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
951 2013-04-17 12:24:21 BenderCoin has joined
952 2013-04-17 12:24:52 <InvaderZim> So I shouldn't convert the Hex to Number and then to Binary ? Is that what you mean
953 2013-04-17 12:25:16 <InvaderZim> Sorry, as you can see, I am really trying very hard to understand, and I am not giving up.
954 2013-04-17 12:25:52 <InvaderZim> Which step did I do wrong ? I broke it down in steps just so that someone can stop me.
955 2013-04-17 12:26:29 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
956 2013-04-17 12:26:44 <InvaderZim> Sipa...do you mean.....a bytearray ?
957 2013-04-17 12:26:45 BenderCoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
958 2013-04-17 12:26:57 i2pRelay has joined
959 2013-04-17 12:27:22 <Luke-Jr> btw, -rw-r--r-- 1 luke-jr luke-jr 209M Apr 14 01:32 mmcblk0p9.xz
960 2013-04-17 12:27:24 <InvaderZim> ByteArray of The Binary....
961 2013-04-17 12:27:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ^
962 2013-04-17 12:27:28 <InvaderZim> Ok I am trying now.
963 2013-04-17 12:27:31 toffoo has joined
964 2013-04-17 12:27:43 BenderCoin has joined
965 2013-04-17 12:29:11 Squeezle has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
966 2013-04-17 12:29:16 <sipa> InvaderZim: "converting hex to binary" just means taking two hex characters and turning them into a byte
967 2013-04-17 12:29:30 lodse has joined
968 2013-04-17 12:29:47 <sipa> InvaderZim: no offence, but if you're not even familiar with basic data encoding stuff, what are you trying to write?
969 2013-04-17 12:32:00 nus- has joined
970 2013-04-17 12:32:29 <InvaderZim> I am trying to follow along this code you show me:
971 2013-04-17 12:32:29 <InvaderZim> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
972 2013-04-17 12:32:53 <InvaderZim> I am trying, I broke everything down verbally trying to Describe what I believe the Code is doing.
973 2013-04-17 12:33:28 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
974 2013-04-17 12:33:31 nus-- has joined
975 2013-04-17 12:33:50 <InvaderZim> I feel very sad now, because now you seem to be turning it into a "You are too stupid to even do this" conversation.
976 2013-04-17 12:33:50 Squeezle has joined
977 2013-04-17 12:33:56 <InvaderZim> I am trying.
978 2013-04-17 12:34:10 <InvaderZim> If you are just trying to hurt me, I will not bother you anymore.
979 2013-04-17 12:34:20 <sipa> InvaderZim: sorry, that is not my intention
980 2013-04-17 12:34:27 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
981 2013-04-17 12:34:44 <InvaderZim> I cannot be the only female programmer around.
982 2013-04-17 12:34:56 <triciam> nope
983 2013-04-17 12:34:57 <InvaderZim> I am sure gentler souls have past by this channel :(
984 2013-04-17 12:35:00 i2pRelay has joined
985 2013-04-17 12:35:15 <InvaderZim> I am trying
986 2013-04-17 12:35:17 <InvaderZim> I am REALLY Trying
987 2013-04-17 12:35:18 <sipa> InvaderZim: i'm just saying you lack experience with this sort of thing, and perhaps you want to tackle some other problems first
988 2013-04-17 12:35:29 Grishnakh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
989 2013-04-17 12:35:30 <sipa> may i ask what you're trying to do, the end goal?
990 2013-04-17 12:36:29 <sipa> i have no problem helping anyone trying to implement things, even just as an exercise, but you can't expect people to teach you everything from the ground up
991 2013-04-17 12:36:39 nus- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
992 2013-04-17 12:36:58 <InvaderZim> I am trying to create the hash required to send to getwork, I am using a library that do the hard work for me, retrieving the nonce and testing again and again. However, that library only show me the solved nonce, it didn't show me "how" to create the final hash required to send back to getwork.
993 2013-04-17 12:37:01 BenderCoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
994 2013-04-17 12:37:18 <sipa> i know that, but that's not what i asked
995 2013-04-17 12:37:30 <InvaderZim> I followed this URL
996 2013-04-17 12:37:30 <InvaderZim> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
997 2013-04-17 12:37:40 moore has joined
998 2013-04-17 12:37:41 <InvaderZim> And I am trying to break it into steps for me.
999 2013-04-17 12:37:43 <sipa> being able to reply to a getwork can't be a goal on itself, it's a means to accomplish something
1000 2013-04-17 12:37:49 <sipa> what are you trying to accomplish?
1001 2013-04-17 12:37:58 BenderCoin has joined
1002 2013-04-17 12:38:46 <sipa> learning how mining works? writing a production miner?
1003 2013-04-17 12:38:52 <InvaderZim> Everything is in place.
1004 2013-04-17 12:38:52 <InvaderZim> I am trying to create a "true" from getwork, I am attempting to make my own miner.
1005 2013-04-17 12:38:52 <InvaderZim> I even got the nonce.
1006 2013-04-17 12:39:04 <InvaderZim> Not a production miner.
1007 2013-04-17 12:39:13 <sipa> So as an exercise?
1008 2013-04-17 12:39:19 <InvaderZim> I am trying to understand how it works through making my own.
1009 2013-04-17 12:39:22 <sipa> Ok.
1010 2013-04-17 12:39:42 <InvaderZim> 1:
1011 2013-04-17 12:39:42 <InvaderZim> I got the Source Data
1012 2013-04-17 12:39:43 <sipa> what language are you using?
1013 2013-04-17 12:39:46 <InvaderZim> And I listened to you, I retrieved the first 160 Characters.
1014 2013-04-17 12:39:50 <InvaderZim> Javascript
1015 2013-04-17 12:40:06 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1016 2013-04-17 12:40:07 <jsfsn> There is a javascript miner I believe
1017 2013-04-17 12:40:08 <InvaderZim> And I converted it to Binary
1018 2013-04-17 12:40:10 <sipa> May I ask why Javascript?
1019 2013-04-17 12:40:30 <sipa> (the answer "It's the language I'm most confortable with" is a perfectly valid one)
1020 2013-04-17 12:41:02 <InvaderZim> Because it is the language I am used to, the language is a means for me to understand, it is all about understanding how it works.
1021 2013-04-17 12:41:11 <sipa> ok
1022 2013-04-17 12:41:17 <InvaderZim> Ok,
1023 2013-04-17 12:41:36 <sipa> the first step for you is turning the 160-character hex string into an 80-byte array
1024 2013-04-17 12:42:04 <InvaderZim> Besides, I am only 19 going on 20, I already have a bad enough reputation among the gals for being a no life nerd.
1025 2013-04-17 12:42:23 <sipa> haha :D
1026 2013-04-17 12:42:30 <jsfsn> It is probably harder to do this in js than in other languages
1027 2013-04-17 12:42:33 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1028 2013-04-17 12:42:47 <InvaderZim> So yes, no friends teen female programmer, I might as well kill myself I know.
1029 2013-04-17 12:42:51 <InvaderZim> But not today.
1030 2013-04-17 12:43:04 i2pRelay has joined
1031 2013-04-17 12:43:14 <InvaderZim> Ok to continue
1032 2013-04-17 12:43:24 <InvaderZim> I retrieved the 160 characters and converted it to Binary
1033 2013-04-17 12:43:38 <InvaderZim> WHich you can see here.
1034 2013-04-17 12:43:40 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/Eg9pP3uY
1035 2013-04-17 12:43:40 <sipa> don't let others hurt you because you're trying to do useful things :)
1036 2013-04-17 12:44:03 <sipa> by "Binary" we don't mean "1 bit per character"
1037 2013-04-17 12:44:16 <InvaderZim> That part...Retrieve 160 Characters, Convert to Number and then From Number to Binary, that part is right right ?
1038 2013-04-17 12:44:18 <sipa> it means "encoded as bytes"
1039 2013-04-17 12:45:40 <InvaderZim> Useful...the only thing about as useful that I produce right now is trying to get away from the "groups" that seems to be "paid" making me feel that I wore dresses from the dumpster...
1040 2013-04-17 12:45:49 <jsfsn> http://jsfiddle.net/bdgNZ/2/
1041 2013-04-17 12:46:14 <InvaderZim> They say people my age could be mean...but maybe I could be all "professional" and "Analytical" about it when I grow up, now it just hurts, plain and simple.
1042 2013-04-17 12:46:40 <jsfsn> err, http://jsfiddle.net/bdgNZ/374/
1043 2013-04-17 12:47:43 <InvaderZim> Ok.
1044 2013-04-17 12:47:47 <InvaderZim> So is my Binary correct ?
1045 2013-04-17 12:48:00 <InvaderZim> Because if it is, the problem would then be my hashing right ?
1046 2013-04-17 12:48:07 Grishnakh has joined
1047 2013-04-17 12:48:13 <InvaderZim> What is encoded as Bytes
1048 2013-04-17 12:48:15 <InvaderZim> The Hex ?
1049 2013-04-17 12:48:31 pablog has quit (Quit: pablog)
1050 2013-04-17 12:48:32 <InvaderZim> Or the Binary that Derived from the Hex that is encoded as Bytes
1051 2013-04-17 12:48:40 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1052 2013-04-17 12:49:19 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
1053 2013-04-17 12:50:19 <Luke-Jr> "Or the Alphabet that Derived from the Speech that is encoded as Letters" <-- what that sounds like
1054 2013-04-17 12:50:34 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1055 2013-04-17 12:50:59 i2pRelay has joined
1056 2013-04-17 12:53:00 <InvaderZim> Ok
1057 2013-04-17 12:53:22 <InvaderZim> So I clearly fail to translate the Hex to Binary Correctly then :(
1058 2013-04-17 12:53:41 Braden` has quit ()
1059 2013-04-17 12:53:44 <InvaderZim> I am stuck at merely retrieving the first 160 Characters from the Source Data.
1060 2013-04-17 12:54:09 <InvaderZim> Which is:
1061 2013-04-17 12:54:10 <InvaderZim> 00000001041044ce884d97e1eb77e893d2fa6fdce53faaee42784297000007330000000052c68b98b11cefa06739f5d3a8ffddad25adfac6e0d360a496b8d82f3b40301c4e2581741a0abbcf00000000
1062 2013-04-17 12:54:27 abadr has joined
1063 2013-04-17 12:54:46 <InvaderZim> The Phython Script says do this: header_bin = header_hex.decode('hex')
1064 2013-04-17 12:54:46 <> _STIMPY_|!~doddy@90.200.43.57|InvaderZim->http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14603205/how-to-convert-hex-string-into-a-bytes-array-and-a-bytes-array-in-the-hex-strin
1065 2013-04-17 12:54:46 Bohren has joined
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1067 2013-04-17 12:58:30 <> _STIMPY_|!~doddy@90.200.43.57|InvaderZim->There s no native function to convert to hex binary in javascript (AFAIK)
1068 2013-04-17 12:58:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1069 2013-04-17 12:58:58 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
1070 2013-04-17 12:58:58 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (Changing host)
1071 2013-04-17 12:58:58 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
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1073 2013-04-17 13:00:09 terry_ has joined
1074 2013-04-17 13:00:25 <InvaderZim> Thank you!
1075 2013-04-17 13:00:28 <InvaderZim> This is where I am so far
1076 2013-04-17 13:00:29 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/s5CjiySh
1077 2013-04-17 13:00:38 <InvaderZim> Is this right ?
1078 2013-04-17 13:01:25 InvaderZim_ has joined
1079 2013-04-17 13:01:41 <InvaderZim_> Sorry, did I miss any replies ?
1080 2013-04-17 13:01:45 <InvaderZim_> Am I right so far ?
1081 2013-04-17 13:01:49 <sipa> InvaderZim: looks potentially correct to me (the first printable character should indeed be a D)
1082 2013-04-17 13:01:49 <InvaderZim_> http://pastebin.com/s5CjiySh
1083 2013-04-17 13:02:04 <InvaderZim_> Ok Good
1084 2013-04-17 13:02:10 <InvaderZim_> Then According to the Phython SCript
1085 2013-04-17 13:02:11 <InvaderZim_> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
1086 2013-04-17 13:02:18 <InvaderZim_> The Next Step is to Hash it.
1087 2013-04-17 13:02:20 <InvaderZim_> Twice
1088 2013-04-17 13:02:24 <InvaderZim_> I am on it.
1089 2013-04-17 13:03:19 rdymac has joined
1090 2013-04-17 13:04:52 InvaderZim has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1091 2013-04-17 13:05:26 johnsoft1 has joined
1092 2013-04-17 13:05:28 <InvaderZim_> http://pastebin.com/Yj0h8QjT
1093 2013-04-17 13:05:29 <InvaderZim_> Here
1094 2013-04-17 13:05:33 <InvaderZim_> The First Sha256!
1095 2013-04-17 13:05:33 <InvaderZim_> :D
1096 2013-04-17 13:05:57 <InvaderZim_> Ok...Now...How do I do a second sha....
1097 2013-04-17 13:06:04 <InvaderZim_> Since the result returns as string...
1098 2013-04-17 13:06:26 <InvaderZim_> Do I Sha the string.
1099 2013-04-17 13:06:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1100 2013-04-17 13:06:43 <InvaderZim_> Or Convert this string to ByteArray First or something ?
1101 2013-04-17 13:07:21 i2pRelay has joined
1102 2013-04-17 13:07:32 <sipa> convert the hex output of sha256 to a byte array again, indeed
1103 2013-04-17 13:07:35 <sipa> and then hash it again
1104 2013-04-17 13:07:58 <Scrat> better if the first hash can output binary
1105 2013-04-17 13:08:10 <> _STIMPY_|!~doddy@90.200.43.57|inlikeflynn->You always work with bytes not the string (hex) representation of bytes
1106 2013-04-17 13:08:37 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1107 2013-04-17 13:09:01 Diapolo has joined
1108 2013-04-17 13:12:10 <> _STIMPY_|!~doddy@90.200.43.57|InvaderZim_->http://www.bitcoinplus.com/miner/embeddable<-Has a JS miner with everything you need
1109 2013-04-17 13:13:29 <Scrat> |_STIMPY_| pretty sure that one is java
1110 2013-04-17 13:13:38 <InvaderZim_> http://pastebin.com/LjqPh2G6
1111 2013-04-17 13:13:43 <InvaderZim_> It is ok
1112 2013-04-17 13:13:45 <InvaderZim_> I am this close
1113 2013-04-17 13:13:48 <Scrat> with js doing the getwork stuff
1114 2013-04-17 13:13:48 <InvaderZim_> This girl can do it
1115 2013-04-17 13:14:02 meefozio has quit ()
1116 2013-04-17 13:14:22 <InvaderZim_> I have achieved 2nd Sha Sipa!
1117 2013-04-17 13:14:27 <InvaderZim_> Now the final question
1118 2013-04-17 13:14:38 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1119 2013-04-17 13:14:41 savetheinternet has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1120 2013-04-17 13:14:42 <InvaderZim_> How to include the Solved Nonce into that and send to getwork ?
1121 2013-04-17 13:15:00 <sipa> you're already way past that point :p
1122 2013-04-17 13:15:05 da2ce7-mobile has joined
1123 2013-04-17 13:15:12 i2pRelay has joined
1124 2013-04-17 13:15:12 <sipa> the (hex) input to your first sha256 is what you send as result
1125 2013-04-17 13:15:18 da2ce7-mobile has quit (Client Quit)
1126 2013-04-17 13:15:29 <> _STIMPY_|!~doddy@90.200.43.57|Scrat->Apologies. Looks like you are right.
1127 2013-04-17 13:15:54 <InvaderZim_> Wait...
1128 2013-04-17 13:15:56 <InvaderZim_> But...
1129 2013-04-17 13:15:58 <InvaderZim_> The Nonce...
1130 2013-04-17 13:16:00 <InvaderZim_> So far
1131 2013-04-17 13:16:02 <InvaderZim_> Everything that I did
1132 2013-04-17 13:16:12 <InvaderZim_> I merely play with the first 160 characters of the Source Data
1133 2013-04-17 13:16:32 safra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1134 2013-04-17 13:16:36 <InvaderZim_> All the "Hardwork" that result in the nonce...how do I put it in ?
1135 2013-04-17 13:16:39 <InvaderZim_> I don't get it ?
1136 2013-04-17 13:17:08 <InvaderZim_> The Source Data is what I get from getwork at the very beginning before any "mining" begin...
1137 2013-04-17 13:17:25 <InvaderZim_> So....Where is the proof of work ?
1138 2013-04-17 13:17:29 <InvaderZim_> The Nonce Incooperation
1139 2013-04-17 13:17:30 <InvaderZim_> How ?
1140 2013-04-17 13:17:34 duckybsd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1141 2013-04-17 13:18:37 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
1142 2013-04-17 13:18:48 savetheinternet has joined
1143 2013-04-17 13:19:45 <Impaler> you looking at the new Nonce analysis of Satoshi mining?
1144 2013-04-17 13:22:03 <gmaxwell> You mean Sergio's latest under-researched attempt at producing hysteria?
1145 2013-04-17 13:22:22 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Why do you believe that would cause hysteria?
1146 2013-04-17 13:22:26 cyphase has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1147 2013-04-17 13:22:38 <jsfsn> Anyway
1148 2013-04-17 13:22:40 egis has joined
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1150 2013-04-17 13:22:50 <gmaxwell> I especially love the audacity of him putting up some figures which utterly destroy his own prior claims, so he then goes back and edits them and then posts the figures saying they refuted things I said.
1151 2013-04-17 13:22:59 <jsfsn> InvaderZim_: The nonce is the last bytes
1152 2013-04-17 13:23:09 i2pRelay has joined
1153 2013-04-17 13:23:28 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: I'm actually unsure on why anybody would care
1154 2013-04-17 13:23:46 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: There are obviously early adopter with alot of Bitcoins. Nothing new there...
1155 2013-04-17 13:24:02 InvaderZim_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1156 2013-04-17 13:24:27 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: Sergio's original claim was that the entire first year of bitcoin Satoshi was the only miner, and effectively the system was a sham.
1157 2013-04-17 13:24:53 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Ah, right
1158 2013-04-17 13:26:03 <gmaxwell> (He made it based on a super questionable armwave argument about satoshi's hashrate. ... one which was completely inconsistent with the dataâ he claimed satoshi had enough hashrate to achieve a difficulty of 2 ... then why was the difficulty all 1 the first year?)
1159 2013-04-17 13:26:13 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Not sure if I follow the logic there, or the difference it not being a sham or not
1160 2013-04-17 13:26:57 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: At least in in the forum community it's generally regarded that starting off a cryptocurrency where the creator has a bunch of precreated coin is unethical.
1161 2013-04-17 13:27:04 daybyter has joined
1162 2013-04-17 13:27:21 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: The only difference being the intension of it
1163 2013-04-17 13:27:41 <jaakkos> his second thread and http://bitslog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/all10-5.jpg kind of caught my attention though
1164 2013-04-17 13:27:49 WKNiGHT has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1165 2013-04-17 13:27:50 <jaakkos> the black dots are apparently unspent, red ones spent
1166 2013-04-17 13:28:02 <jaakkos> i think one can't say much about the second half of the graph
1167 2013-04-17 13:28:11 <jaakkos> but the first half might tell something?
1168 2013-04-17 13:28:38 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: The erlier someone got it, the more potential Bitcoins they could have. Does not matter if it was intended as a ponzi or not
1169 2013-04-17 13:28:45 johnsoft has joined
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1172 2013-04-17 13:30:04 WKNiGHT has joined
1173 2013-04-17 13:30:14 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: With that said, I believe the community already is aware of the "problem" of early adopters.
1174 2013-04-17 13:30:34 <jaakkos> though even if the black blocks on the first half was satoshi or a single entity which might make sense (?), i'm not sure if that would surprise anyone...
1175 2013-04-17 13:30:43 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1176 2013-04-17 13:30:51 <jsfsn> jaakkos: Exactly, does it matter?
1177 2013-04-17 13:31:03 <vrs> black blocks?
1178 2013-04-17 13:31:07 cc_8 has joined
1179 2013-04-17 13:31:07 cc_8 is now known as alphaguru
1180 2013-04-17 13:31:10 <jsfsn> jaakkos: The few mining people of year one obviously have alot of Bitcoins
1181 2013-04-17 13:31:14 i2pRelay has joined
1182 2013-04-17 13:31:21 <jaakkos> vrs: yes, in the graph, the black dots are blocks with unspent coinbase
1183 2013-04-17 13:31:22 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: certantly there is a disnction between earlier people having more and omg this thing just assigned it's creator a unique benefit.
1184 2013-04-17 13:31:43 <vrs> ah didn't click the link
1185 2013-04-17 13:32:04 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Indeed, but the difference is not huge, ~400k or 1mil, right?
1186 2013-04-17 13:32:16 johnsoft1 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1187 2013-04-17 13:32:38 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: s/have a lot/had a lot/ half have been spent. It's unclear how much of the black is lost.
1188 2013-04-17 13:32:44 <gmaxwell> Hell all the block on the right might be me.
1189 2013-04-17 13:32:48 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Alot of potential value, but I'm not sure if it matters of that is splitted between 2 or 5 persons
1190 2013-04-17 13:32:59 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: I agree
1191 2013-04-17 13:33:37 <gmaxwell> s/all the block/all the black/
1192 2013-04-17 13:34:37 systemParanoid has joined
1193 2013-04-17 13:34:37 <jsfsn> Anyway, a small percentage of the community has a high precentage of all the bitcoins
1194 2013-04-17 13:34:40 <gmaxwell> I think it matters, if it really was _all_ one person in the first year then that supports the argument that other people didn't even have a chance. It would be an unfortunately unethical start to the systemâ you can argue that crimes of the past don't matter today... but I still think thats lame, especially because I personally know it to be untrue.
1195 2013-04-17 13:35:04 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: Maybe, but there isn't any data being presented to support that.
1196 2013-04-17 13:35:12 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Simple logic (;
1197 2013-04-17 13:35:29 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: whats the simple logic?
1198 2013-04-17 13:35:35 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: But I agree, there is a difference if the intension was to make a ponzi or not
1199 2013-04-17 13:36:02 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: That it was alot easier to mine four years ago?
1200 2013-04-17 13:36:23 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Lost coins is an unknown though
1201 2013-04-17 13:37:13 <gmaxwell> It being lots "easier" (though it wasn'tâ no one was there to tell you how, or that you should, bitcoin was useless and mining was kinda boring) doesn't say anything about who kept their coins.
1202 2013-04-17 13:37:58 <gmaxwell> I lost whatever early coins I had but I assuredly would have sold them most of them at $1 or even before then... "people are paying $1 for this?!"
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1204 2013-04-17 13:39:14 <HM2> it doesn't really matter if it was a get-rich scheme or ponzi or not. if good comes of it then it's arguably that whoever started it deserved it. It's not like...oh, the USA isn't built in the back of selfish acts
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1207 2013-04-17 13:40:19 <vrs> also mining back then was a matter of keeping the network alive, I think
1208 2013-04-17 13:40:23 <gmaxwell> HM2: perhaps not, but it's pretty shit in my opinion to willfully misconstrue history (one I personally wittnessed) in order to make some webtraffic generating headlines.
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1212 2013-04-17 13:40:30 <jsfsn> HM2: Exactly
1213 2013-04-17 13:40:40 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: I agree with that as well
1214 2013-04-17 13:40:40 <HM2> gmaxwell: webtraffic generating headlines that bring ad revenue
1215 2013-04-17 13:40:51 <HM2> it's all very hypocritical
1216 2013-04-17 13:41:04 <Scrat> what ad revenue? isn't it just a forum post?
1217 2013-04-17 13:41:49 <gmaxwell> Scrat: nah, it's on his wordpress blog which has ads.
1218 2013-04-17 13:42:06 <HM2> Scrat: this kinda thing doesn't stay on the forum. there's lots of coverage with the same mantra out there
1219 2013-04-17 13:42:22 <gmaxwell> I don't know that ad revenue is his motivation. This isn't the first thing he's made grandious claims.
1220 2013-04-17 13:42:41 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1221 2013-04-17 13:42:45 <gmaxwell> I think it's just his style. Perhaps pure ego. who knows.
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1224 2013-04-17 13:43:17 <Scrat> in any case I guarantee you that that ad revenue is less than 10 dollars
1225 2013-04-17 13:43:24 <jsfsn> I think it is a good discussion to be had
1226 2013-04-17 13:43:34 <HM2> i was thinking more the story would be picked up and syndicated
1227 2013-04-17 13:43:34 <jsfsn> The 80%/20% rule that is
1228 2013-04-17 13:43:41 <jaakkos> i don't like his sensationalist style but imo it's good to see efforts such as this in order to analyze the distribution of coins
1229 2013-04-17 13:43:43 <jsfsn> Not the intension or exact number of bitcoins
1230 2013-04-17 13:43:45 <gmaxwell> HM2: yea, I expect.
1231 2013-04-17 13:43:54 <HM2> and satoshi conspiracy theories generally, that's what I meant
1232 2013-04-17 13:44:05 <gmaxwell> HM2: when some reporter wants to make some sensational story about it, he'll be their goto guy.
1233 2013-04-17 13:44:12 whiterabbit has joined
1234 2013-04-17 13:44:50 <gmaxwell> In other places I've seen people with sketcy arguments in analysis make a whole career out of being a well known critic.
1235 2013-04-17 13:44:58 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: The mystery of satoshi will feed this kind of people
1236 2013-04-17 13:45:12 Diapolo has left ()
1237 2013-04-17 13:45:31 <HM2> Most Bitcoin coverage is still negative - exchange hacks, bubbles and crashes, whacky 'investors', conspiracy theories
1238 2013-04-17 13:45:42 <HM2> Best to ignore it all altogether
1239 2013-04-17 13:45:45 <jaakkos> you forgot drugs.
1240 2013-04-17 13:45:51 <gmaxwell> and, hey, thats not so badâ but I'd rather we have _better_ critics than someone who makes a bunch of weak claims and then effectively forces other people to do their research for them by refuting their initial bad ideas.
1241 2013-04-17 13:46:39 <jsfsn> A journalists job is to be critical though, so I'm not sure it is a bad thing
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1243 2013-04-17 13:47:06 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: a journalists job is to inform people.
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1247 2013-04-17 13:47:47 <etotheipi_> sipa: gmaxwell: Luke-Jr: question: besides the even/odd s-values in the signature, what other forms of malleability could affect the HFT being talked about on the mailinig list
1248 2013-04-17 13:47:47 <gmaxwell> Being critical can be an important part of that, but if the criticism is illfoundedâ criticism for criticism's sakeâ and leave people less informed.. thats not journalism, thats a crappy OpEd.
1249 2013-04-17 13:48:03 idstam-se has joined
1250 2013-04-17 13:48:10 <etotheipi_> specifically, I provide you with a time-locked transaction and signed replacement to myself
1251 2013-04-17 13:48:18 <jsfsn> I think it is more important for a journalist to be critical than anything else
1252 2013-04-17 13:48:26 <etotheipi_> but then you adjust my original tx and my return-to-self tx becomes invalid
1253 2013-04-17 13:48:28 <jsfsn> Spreading information is part of that
1254 2013-04-17 13:48:28 <vrs> I'd be interested in a hashrate graph, aka how fast does the nonce grow for that supposed entity
1255 2013-04-17 13:48:43 <HM2> gmaxwell: i wouldn't have wasted my time refuting their weak claims
1256 2013-04-17 13:48:44 <vrs> the left half of the graph looks reasonably consistent, the second more random
1257 2013-04-17 13:49:05 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: You're a jerk with weak arguments who buggers goats. (Am I a journalist now? I put being critical over everything else. Am I doing it right? :P )
1258 2013-04-17 13:49:15 <jsfsn> hehe
1259 2013-04-17 13:49:26 <jsfsn> You need to be able to backup your ciricism, obivously
1260 2013-04-17 13:49:52 <gmaxwell> jsfsn: I think thats the same as admitting that facts and truthfulness come first then. :P
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1262 2013-04-17 13:49:58 <jsfsn> I think it is a journalism job to inform the public of things that would otherwise be hidden
1263 2013-04-17 13:50:09 <vrs> https://bitslog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/all10-5.jpg also might be interesting to crossreference the drops and more chaotic places with satoshi client commits
1264 2013-04-17 13:50:20 <vrs> also the original testnet chain
1265 2013-04-17 13:50:29 <helo> if the journalist publishes a clarifying follow-up, then i'd say he is legit. but how often does that happen?
1266 2013-04-17 13:50:30 <vrs> I think the testnet chain will be even more interesting
1267 2013-04-17 13:50:33 <gmaxwell> vrs: testnet didn't come until much later.
1268 2013-04-17 13:50:39 <vrs> ah
1269 2013-04-17 13:50:47 <vrs> I thought it had always existed
1270 2013-04-17 13:50:51 <jsfsn> gmaxwell: Well, yes, it is mostly semantics, but you get the point, right?
1271 2013-04-17 13:50:54 <HM2> jsfsn: supposing it's true. If you were satoshi, would you not be profiting as well?
1272 2013-04-17 13:50:56 <vrs> when did it come?
1273 2013-04-17 13:51:04 <jsfsn> HM2: Absolutly
1274 2013-04-17 13:51:20 idstam has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1275 2013-04-17 13:51:24 <gmaxwell> vrs: sept/oct 2010 iirc.
1276 2013-04-17 13:51:49 <gmaxwell> helo: almost never.
1277 2013-04-17 13:51:50 <jgm> Hi, is there any code out there that can be used to provide a realtime dump of blocks as they hit the blockchain (or x-behind, to ensure confirmation)? Taken a look at blockparser but I didn't see a way to make it continuall parse new blocks
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1279 2013-04-17 13:53:00 <jarpiain> jgm: start bitcoind with --blocknotify='command'
1280 2013-04-17 13:53:34 <jgm> jarpiain: ah, will take a look. Thanks!
1281 2013-04-17 13:53:44 <HM2> jgm: there's also a 0mq patch on github for block notify pubsub
1282 2013-04-17 13:53:49 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
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1284 2013-04-17 13:53:53 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
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1287 2013-04-17 13:54:55 <jgm> HM2: go it, looks very interesting. My thanks to you, too
1288 2013-04-17 13:54:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1289 2013-04-17 13:55:02 TradeFortress has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1290 2013-04-17 13:55:04 <HM2> I'm wondering actually whether a ZMQ_PUB socket is the right choice. ZMQ_PUSH might make more sense
1291 2013-04-17 13:55:32 <vrs> I assume sirius-m was an early alias of satoshi?
1292 2013-04-17 13:55:44 i2pRelay has joined
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1294 2013-04-17 13:56:04 <gmaxwell> No.
1295 2013-04-17 13:56:23 <gmaxwell> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Sirius
1296 2013-04-17 13:56:25 peddamat has joined
1297 2013-04-17 13:56:33 <vrs> ah
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1360 2013-04-17 14:41:48 <g02> Shouldn't there be a big warning for using a bitcoin client on Windows and Mac? As the value of Bitcoins continues to increase, doesn't that create an incentive for Microsoft ja Apple employees to use backdoors in Windows and Mac to steal Bitcoins?
1361 2013-04-17 14:42:06 <n1c> Well, the value doesn't "continue to increase" :)
1362 2013-04-17 14:42:12 <g02> In the long run it does.
1363 2013-04-17 14:42:21 <n1c> But yes, there's quite an incentive for hacking etc.
1364 2013-04-17 14:42:39 <g02> I'm talking about the protection from Microsoft and Apple themselves.
1365 2013-04-17 14:43:01 <g02> Certainly billions of dollars are somewhat of an incentive to do something like that.
1366 2013-04-17 14:43:15 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1367 2013-04-17 14:43:16 <jsfsn> eh
1368 2013-04-17 14:43:43 <sipa> you think apple and microsoft will risk _theft_ ?
1369 2013-04-17 14:43:58 <jsfsn> Stolen billions != earned billions
1370 2013-04-17 14:44:02 <InvaderZim_> Hello Sipa
1371 2013-04-17 14:44:07 i2pRelay has joined
1372 2013-04-17 14:44:18 <InvaderZim_> Sorry about the cut...
1373 2013-04-17 14:44:26 <InvaderZim_> Girl stuff...don't ask.
1374 2013-04-17 14:44:28 <g02> Why wouln't a disgruntled employee do that if they have the opportunity?
1375 2013-04-17 14:44:37 <InvaderZim_> Anyway, this is where we are so far:
1376 2013-04-17 14:44:42 <InvaderZim_> http://pastebin.com/iAzVe9pp
1377 2013-04-17 14:44:49 <jgarzik> keep it on topic
1378 2013-04-17 14:44:53 <jgarzik> this is a dev channel
1379 2013-04-17 14:45:08 <jsfsn> Was somewhat related to the client tho
1380 2013-04-17 14:45:11 kjj has quit (Quit: [BX] Captain Kangaroo uses BitchX. Shouldn't you?)
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1383 2013-04-17 14:45:28 kjj has joined
1384 2013-04-17 14:45:47 <InvaderZim_> So now....how do I
1385 2013-04-17 14:45:47 <sipa> InvaderZim_: you know how integers are encoded as bytes, in computer memory?
1386 2013-04-17 14:46:00 <InvaderZim_> "intergrate" the Nonce ?
1387 2013-04-17 14:46:26 <sipa> can you answer my question?
1388 2013-04-17 14:46:56 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1389 2013-04-17 14:47:09 <InvaderZim_> Actually....no......to be integer is like var something:int
1390 2013-04-17 14:47:18 <InvaderZim_> So I think of int as int, float as float.
1391 2013-04-17 14:47:27 <InvaderZim_> I never thought of int as bytes.
1392 2013-04-17 14:47:34 <jsfsn> Everything is bytes
1393 2013-04-17 14:47:47 polrpaul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1394 2013-04-17 14:47:48 <InvaderZim_> To me, byte is like another thing altogether :( This Blonde is actually quite dumb.
1395 2013-04-17 14:48:17 <jsfsn> I would actually advice you to use C if you want to learn
1396 2013-04-17 14:48:34 <InvaderZim_> I guess I will have to something.
1397 2013-04-17 14:48:44 <jsfsn> It's easier to handle bit/byte operations in a language made for such things than a high-level language like js
1398 2013-04-17 14:48:48 <InvaderZim_> Scripting Languages have really spoilt me.
1399 2013-04-17 14:49:36 <sipa> InvaderZim_: then you'll have to look into that first, i think; though more complicated than what you need here (the nonce is unsigned), this is a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two's_complement
1400 2013-04-17 14:49:50 <sipa> InvaderZim_: that's however off-topic here
1401 2013-04-17 14:49:53 <InvaderZim_> I wonder whether it is evil of me to want a programmer as a boyfriend...I mean...what if in the back of my mind, I am actually just exploiting him to learn instead of wanting to be with him.
1402 2013-04-17 14:50:53 <InvaderZim_> Would guy programmers actually want to be with a girl like me ? Would anyone actually...sorry..sorry...I do this often...back to the topic.
1403 2013-04-17 14:50:59 <jsfsn> Thats even more off topic
1404 2013-04-17 14:51:07 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1405 2013-04-17 14:51:11 <InvaderZim_> I know!!! SORRY!
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1407 2013-04-17 14:51:43 <InvaderZim_> I booked marked the Two's complement wiki though, will check back after I figure this nonce incoperating stuff out.
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1409 2013-04-17 14:52:13 <jsfsn> That article might be a bit heavy
1410 2013-04-17 14:52:17 <InvaderZim_> So I have gotten that far thanks actually I think...100% to Sipa.
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1412 2013-04-17 14:52:40 <InvaderZim_> Now the question is how to infuse the found nonce into it and form the hash needed to send.
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1415 2013-04-17 14:53:01 <InvaderZim_> Ok jsfsn :)
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1417 2013-04-17 14:53:11 <sipa> InvaderZim_: the point is this: the block header (the 80-byte structure you construct from the work), _contains_ the nonce, encoded as bytes
1418 2013-04-17 14:53:15 <sipa> InvaderZim_: but with nonce=0
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1420 2013-04-17 14:53:37 <sipa> InvaderZim_: what you want to do is find what to replace the nonce with the make the proof-of-work check out
1421 2013-04-17 14:54:01 <sipa> InvaderZim_: so really you have to just replace the last 4 of those 80 bytes, by the byte-encoded form of the nonce
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1424 2013-04-17 14:54:19 <InvaderZim> Sorry I was disconnected.
1425 2013-04-17 14:54:40 <sipa> 16:30:51 < sipa> InvaderZim_: the point is this: the block header (the 80-byte structure you construct from the work), contains the nonce, encoded as bytes
1426 2013-04-17 14:54:43 <sipa> 16:30:55 < sipa> InvaderZim_: but with nonce=0
1427 2013-04-17 14:54:45 <sipa> 16:31:17 < sipa> InvaderZim_: what you want to do is find what to replace the nonce with the make the proof-of-work check out
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1429 2013-04-17 14:54:48 <sipa> 16:31:41 < sipa> InvaderZim_: so really you have to just replace the last 4 of those 80 bytes, by the byte-encoded form of the nonce
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1437 2013-04-17 14:57:03 <InvaderZim> Ok...
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1440 2013-04-17 14:57:14 <InvaderZim> 4 Bytes EQUAL 8 Characters right ?
1441 2013-04-17 14:57:22 InvaderZim_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1442 2013-04-17 14:57:32 <InvaderZim> So last Four Bytes is 00000000.
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1444 2013-04-17 14:57:38 <sipa> correct
1445 2013-04-17 14:57:41 <InvaderZim> And they are in Hex...
1446 2013-04-17 14:57:44 <InvaderZim> Ok...So...
1447 2013-04-17 14:57:51 <InvaderZim> I need to convert the Solved Nonce,
1448 2013-04-17 14:58:09 <InvaderZim> Which is 2809801765...to Hex....
1449 2013-04-17 14:59:02 <jsfsn> 8 characters?
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1451 2013-04-17 14:59:49 <_dr> fyi, you can use printf(1) to convert hex <-> dec, e.g. printf "%d\n" 0xd00d ; printf "%x\n" 53261
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1456 2013-04-17 15:01:05 <jsfsn> ah, hex
1457 2013-04-17 15:01:12 <_dr> jsfsn: i think he means hex 0-F :)
1458 2013-04-17 15:01:19 <_dr> i was confused as well
1459 2013-04-17 15:01:41 <InvaderZim> Hold on Hold on
1460 2013-04-17 15:01:51 <InvaderZim> When I am doing the Convertion to Hex
1461 2013-04-17 15:02:14 <InvaderZim> Do I concert to hex as in Number(2809801765)->Hex
1462 2013-04-17 15:02:15 <InvaderZim> OR
1463 2013-04-17 15:02:21 <InvaderZim> String(2809801765)->Hex
1464 2013-04-17 15:02:33 <InvaderZim> What should I treat 2809801765 as ?
1465 2013-04-17 15:02:53 <InvaderZim> A Number or a String ?
1466 2013-04-17 15:03:10 polrpaul has joined
1467 2013-04-17 15:03:39 <_dr> where do you get that number?
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1470 2013-04-17 15:04:33 <InvaderZim_> Sorry, I was booted out again
1471 2013-04-17 15:04:34 <InvaderZim_> Back now
1472 2013-04-17 15:04:39 <InvaderZim_> What did I miss ?
1473 2013-04-17 15:04:55 <jsfsn> How bit-operations work
1474 2013-04-17 15:06:30 <sharperguy> Most programming languages interpret any number you type directly as decimal unless you add 0x to the start
1475 2013-04-17 15:06:59 <sharperguy> Internally it will be stored in binary so its up to you how you want to print it to the screen
1476 2013-04-17 15:07:10 <sharperguy> In C %d will give you decimal, %x gives you hex
1477 2013-04-17 15:07:22 InvaderZim has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1478 2013-04-17 15:07:26 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1479 2013-04-17 15:07:28 <sharperguy> oh
1480 2013-04-17 15:07:33 <InvaderZim_> Ok
1481 2013-04-17 15:07:40 <InvaderZim_> This is where I am now
1482 2013-04-17 15:07:40 <InvaderZim_> http://pastebin.com/bFfNWuCn
1483 2013-04-17 15:08:26 <InvaderZim_> WHy is there a Negative sign from my Decimal to Hex Result ? Should I abs() it then ? or the Minus means something, hell is the convertion even correct ?
1484 2013-04-17 15:08:29 i2pRelay has joined
1485 2013-04-17 15:10:02 john5223 has joined
1486 2013-04-17 15:10:13 <sharperguy> Since the number is greater than 2147483648 then storing it in a 32-bit signed integer would cause it to be interpreted as a negative number
1487 2013-04-17 15:10:35 OPrime has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1488 2013-04-17 15:10:43 <InvaderZim_> So my hex convertion is correct then ?
1489 2013-04-17 15:10:51 <InvaderZim_> Because I went to http://www.statman.info/conversions/hexadecimal.html
1490 2013-04-17 15:10:52 <sharperguy> It depends what you want to do
1491 2013-04-17 15:10:55 <HM2> what language is htis
1492 2013-04-17 15:11:06 <HM2> this*
1493 2013-04-17 15:11:14 <InvaderZim_> Type in 2809801765, it gives me a77a2c25.
1494 2013-04-17 15:11:26 orblivion has joined
1495 2013-04-17 15:11:49 <HM2> InvaderZim_: you've overflowed a signed 32bit twos compliment integer
1496 2013-04-17 15:11:52 <InvaderZim_> So...is mine correct or is that site correct ?
1497 2013-04-17 15:12:02 safra has joined
1498 2013-04-17 15:12:16 <InvaderZim_> So that site is in error then ?
1499 2013-04-17 15:12:23 <sharperguy> It depends what you want to do
1500 2013-04-17 15:12:30 <InvaderZim_> I just need to know who is right first for me to even continue.
1501 2013-04-17 15:12:31 <HM2> neither are incorrect
1502 2013-04-17 15:12:36 <sharperguy> if you just want the hex representation of that number as it is then your program is wrong
1503 2013-04-17 15:12:41 <InvaderZim_> wha wha wha ?!!
1504 2013-04-17 15:12:48 kjj has quit (Quit: I choo-choo-choose drugs)
1505 2013-04-17 15:12:59 kjj has joined
1506 2013-04-17 15:13:02 <sharperguy> If the decimal was originally a 32-bit signed integer and you want that same integer back then your program is right
1507 2013-04-17 15:13:09 <InvaderZim_> I need it to be in the form that is required to add back to the header to hash correctly.
1508 2013-04-17 15:13:10 <sipa> InvaderZim_: a77a2c25 is the hex form of 2809801765,
1509 2013-04-17 15:13:21 <sipa> that is correct, afaics
1510 2013-04-17 15:13:36 paulo_ has joined
1511 2013-04-17 15:13:50 <InvaderZim_> So my convertion of "-5885D3DB" is incorrect then ?
1512 2013-04-17 15:14:08 <HM2> it's not a typical serialisation, so yeah
1513 2013-04-17 15:14:12 <InvaderZim_> Which one is the one Bitcoin needs ?
1514 2013-04-17 15:14:49 lodse has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1515 2013-04-17 15:15:20 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1516 2013-04-17 15:15:31 <sharperguy> Try storing the number as an "unsigned int" rather than just an int
1517 2013-04-17 15:15:45 kicek has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1518 2013-04-17 15:16:13 i2pRelay has joined
1519 2013-04-17 15:16:34 <InvaderZim_> Ok...I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!
1520 2013-04-17 15:16:35 kicek has joined
1521 2013-04-17 15:16:35 <InvaderZim_> a77a2c25
1522 2013-04-17 15:16:47 <InvaderZim_> ARH!!!!!!!!
1523 2013-04-17 15:16:50 <InvaderZim_> I AM SO CITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1524 2013-04-17 15:17:29 <InvaderZim_> Ok...
1525 2013-04-17 15:17:31 <InvaderZim_> So that's it right
1526 2013-04-17 15:17:39 <InvaderZim_> Replace the last 8 digit...
1527 2013-04-17 15:17:41 <InvaderZim_> Sipa...
1528 2013-04-17 15:17:42 <InvaderZim_> Now
1529 2013-04-17 15:17:46 <InvaderZim_> Everything you say...
1530 2013-04-17 15:17:49 <InvaderZim_> Makes PERFECT Sense
1531 2013-04-17 15:17:53 <InvaderZim_> Everything is Clear now
1532 2013-04-17 15:18:00 <sipa> InvaderZim_: next step: turning that hex into 4 bytes
1533 2013-04-17 15:18:08 <sipa> InvaderZim_: there's a complication here, though
1534 2013-04-17 15:18:11 ColinT has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1535 2013-04-17 15:18:13 <InvaderZim_> Wait what ? New Stuff ?
1536 2013-04-17 15:18:18 <InvaderZim_> What What ?
1537 2013-04-17 15:18:27 <sipa> InvaderZim_: when printing out a number for human, we put the "most significant digit" first
1538 2013-04-17 15:18:45 <sipa> however, in the encoding computers use, it's the other way around
1539 2013-04-17 15:18:47 <InvaderZim_> I was just about to replace the last 8 characters and reStart the hashing...so complication are we talking about ? :(
1540 2013-04-17 15:18:55 <sipa> that won't work
1541 2013-04-17 15:19:02 <sipa> for the reason i just told you
1542 2013-04-17 15:19:06 <sipa> you need to swap the bytes
1543 2013-04-17 15:19:15 <sipa> but not the hex characters within the bytes
1544 2013-04-17 15:19:16 <InvaderZim_> Ok...
1545 2013-04-17 15:19:24 <sipa> i'll give you an example
1546 2013-04-17 15:19:27 <InvaderZim_> Swap the byte...
1547 2013-04-17 15:19:29 <InvaderZim_> Ok
1548 2013-04-17 15:19:30 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1549 2013-04-17 15:19:35 <InvaderZim_> Let's use what we already have here.
1550 2013-04-17 15:19:41 <sipa> if the hex encoded number is a77a2c25
1551 2013-04-17 15:19:56 <sipa> you make the end of the (hex encoded) block header: 252c7aa7
1552 2013-04-17 15:20:00 <sharperguy> so 0x01234567 becomes 0x67452301
1553 2013-04-17 15:20:12 <InvaderZim_> 252c7aa7.........
1554 2013-04-17 15:20:33 <sipa> a77a2c25 -> a7 7a 2c 25 -> 25 2c 7a a7 -> 252c7aa7
1555 2013-04-17 15:20:44 <sipa> so swap in groups of 2
1556 2013-04-17 15:20:59 <HM2> byte sex baby
1557 2013-04-17 15:21:03 <InvaderZim_> I see.......
1558 2013-04-17 15:21:07 <InvaderZim_> So..
1559 2013-04-17 15:21:11 JZavala has joined
1560 2013-04-17 15:21:12 <InvaderZim_> The Psedu code is
1561 2013-04-17 15:21:30 OneMiner_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1562 2013-04-17 15:21:39 <InvaderZim_> 1: Make Sure String is 8 characters, add zero on the right for padding if not.
1563 2013-04-17 15:21:48 <sipa> no, add 0 in front
1564 2013-04-17 15:22:08 <InvaderZim_> Bring String in 4 Sub Strings, each containing two characters.
1565 2013-04-17 15:22:13 <InvaderZim_> 3
1566 2013-04-17 15:22:19 <sipa> if it were decimal, and you needed to write the number 217 in 4 characters, what would it be?
1567 2013-04-17 15:22:25 <InvaderZim_> Yes, to the left, sorry, my mistake.
1568 2013-04-17 15:22:31 JamesHarrison has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1569 2013-04-17 15:22:49 <InvaderZim_> After breaking each into four characters, reverse the order.
1570 2013-04-17 15:22:50 * BlueMatt wonders if hex conversion is really on-topic here
1571 2013-04-17 15:22:54 someonesomewhere has joined
1572 2013-04-17 15:23:14 <InvaderZim_> Then Replace the last 8 characters with this new one and REHASH THE WHOLE THING!
1573 2013-04-17 15:23:16 <InvaderZim_> Is that It ?
1574 2013-04-17 15:23:20 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1575 2013-04-17 15:23:22 <sipa> InvaderZim_: indeed
1576 2013-04-17 15:23:26 someonesomewhere has left ()
1577 2013-04-17 15:23:30 <HM2> BlueMatt: sipa needs to flex his humanitarian developer muscles. It's what he does
1578 2013-04-17 15:24:00 <HM2> BlueMatt: I'm always amazed how productive he is while putting in so many hours here
1579 2013-04-17 15:24:25 <BlueMatt> HM2: have you seen the hours sipa keeps?
1580 2013-04-17 15:24:27 i2pRelay has joined
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1582 2013-04-17 15:25:37 <InvaderZim> Sorry I was booted again
1583 2013-04-17 15:25:45 <InvaderZim> My last sentence is "Is that it ?"
1584 2013-04-17 15:25:53 kadoban has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1585 2013-04-17 15:25:55 <InvaderZim> Is there all there is to it ?
1586 2013-04-17 15:26:01 <sipa> that's it
1587 2013-04-17 15:26:06 <InvaderZim> Wow...
1588 2013-04-17 15:26:08 <InvaderZim> Sipa
1589 2013-04-17 15:26:12 <InvaderZim> I need you to do me a favor
1590 2013-04-17 15:26:17 <InvaderZim> Send me your Bitcoin address.
1591 2013-04-17 15:26:22 <InvaderZim> I am sending you some.
1592 2013-04-17 15:26:37 <InvaderZim> It is the least I could do.
1593 2013-04-17 15:26:46 <InvaderZim> Please accept it :(
1594 2013-04-17 15:26:46 <InvaderZim> Please
1595 2013-04-17 15:27:22 InvaderZim_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1596 2013-04-17 15:27:44 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1597 2013-04-17 15:27:45 <InvaderZim> I am still here.
1598 2013-04-17 15:28:12 xenesis_ has joined
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1606 2013-04-17 15:32:11 * HM2 opens up his browser and glares at the library documentation he's had open for 2 days straight.
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1612 2013-04-17 15:36:04 <helo> eeeeeeevil
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1614 2013-04-17 15:36:49 <ladygaga_> \nick thebadplus
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1637 2013-04-17 15:51:06 <InvaderZim> Sorry I was booted out again.
1638 2013-04-17 15:51:18 <InvaderZim> This is the final result Sipa
1639 2013-04-17 15:51:22 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/ZsZd9pZD
1640 2013-04-17 15:51:25 <InvaderZim> Is this it ?
1641 2013-04-17 15:51:33 nomailing1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1647 2013-04-17 15:54:47 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1648 2013-04-17 15:55:08 <InvaderZim> SORRY I MADE A CRUCIAL MISTAKE
1649 2013-04-17 15:55:32 <InvaderZim> I forget to append "0x" to the second hash resulting in wrong hashes
1650 2013-04-17 15:55:32 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1651 2013-04-17 15:55:34 <InvaderZim> This is the correct one
1652 2013-04-17 15:55:34 <InvaderZim> http://pastebin.com/7JpDDFUF
1653 2013-04-17 15:55:42 <InvaderZim> SORRY SORRY SORRY
1654 2013-04-17 15:55:56 <InvaderZim> So Did I get it right this time ?
1655 2013-04-17 15:56:01 <InvaderZim> Is this all there is to to it ?
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1664 2013-04-17 16:03:51 <InvaderZim> Sipa
1665 2013-04-17 16:03:58 <InvaderZim> Are you still here ?
1666 2013-04-17 16:04:13 xenesis has joined
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1669 2013-04-17 16:05:05 <sipa> InvaderZim: there must be something wrong with your hashing, as the output is expected to end in some zeroes
1670 2013-04-17 16:05:43 ColinT has quit (Client Quit)
1671 2013-04-17 16:06:01 <sipa> InvaderZim: also, you don't send the hash, you send the block header (i.e., the work with the nonce replaced)
1672 2013-04-17 16:07:18 xenesis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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1674 2013-04-17 16:08:39 <InvaderZim_> Sorry
1675 2013-04-17 16:08:49 <InvaderZim_> As I was saying
1676 2013-04-17 16:08:58 <InvaderZim_> I then break the nonce into four strings
1677 2013-04-17 16:08:59 <InvaderZim_> Reverse it
1678 2013-04-17 16:09:12 <InvaderZim_> But it back into the header [replace last 8 characters]
1679 2013-04-17 16:09:14 <sipa> can you do something about your connection?
1680 2013-04-17 16:09:34 <InvaderZim_> and then do the whole SHA256 Hashing Twice.
1681 2013-04-17 16:09:42 <sipa> InvaderZim: there must be something wrong with your hashing, as the output is expected to end in some zeroes
1682 2013-04-17 16:09:45 <sipa> InvaderZim: also, you don't send the hash, you send the block header (i.e., the work with the nonce replaced)
1683 2013-04-17 16:10:13 <InvaderZim_> Ok Ok
1684 2013-04-17 16:10:14 <InvaderZim_> So
1685 2013-04-17 16:10:17 <InvaderZim_> What you are saying is
1686 2013-04-17 16:10:17 InvaderZim has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1687 2013-04-17 16:10:25 <InvaderZim_> I DON'T do anymore hashing on my end
1688 2013-04-17 16:10:27 xenesis_ has joined
1689 2013-04-17 16:10:38 <sipa> no, you just do that to check the result
1690 2013-04-17 16:10:44 <InvaderZim_> Since the Nonce is found don't do anymore work
1691 2013-04-17 16:10:55 <InvaderZim_> Just take the nonce, convert to Hex, Reverse the order, and put it back into Data
1692 2013-04-17 16:10:55 <InvaderZim_> Done.
1693 2013-04-17 16:10:58 <InvaderZim_> Is that it ?
1694 2013-04-17 16:11:24 <sipa> the miner will likely return lots of results that are not good enough to be real blocks
1695 2013-04-17 16:11:26 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1696 2013-04-17 16:11:30 <sipa> you'll want to check them yourself first
1697 2013-04-17 16:11:32 <InvaderZim_> So the Source Data from Getwork is: 00000001041044ce884d97e1eb77e893d2fa6fdce53faaee42784297000007330000000052c68b98b11cefa06739f5d3a8ffddad25adfac6e0d360a496b8d82f3b40301c4e2581741a0abbcf00000000000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000
1698 2013-04-17 16:11:58 <InvaderZim_> Now we have:
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1702 2013-04-17 16:12:28 <InvaderZim_> 0x00000001041044ce884d97e1eb77e893d2fa6fdce53faaee42784297000007330000000052c68b98b11cefa06739f5d3a8ffddad25adfac6e0d360a496b8d82f3b40301c4e2581741a0abbcf252c7aa7000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000
1703 2013-04-17 16:12:41 <InvaderZim_> Excuse the 0x
1704 2013-04-17 16:13:20 <InvaderZim_> Is that it ? :D
1705 2013-04-17 16:13:53 xenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1706 2013-04-17 16:13:53 xenesis_ is now known as xenesis
1707 2013-04-17 16:14:15 <InvaderZim_> Please don't tell me I am diconnect :(
1708 2013-04-17 16:15:42 xenesis_ has joined
1709 2013-04-17 16:16:25 <sipa> InvaderZim_: sorry, i don't have the time to guide you through this all
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1712 2013-04-17 16:16:38 <InvaderZim_> Ok
1713 2013-04-17 16:16:40 <InvaderZim_> Thanks anyway
1714 2013-04-17 16:16:44 <InvaderZim_> You have been a great help :)
1715 2013-04-17 16:16:48 <InvaderZim_> Really :)
1716 2013-04-17 16:16:51 <InvaderZim_> Thank you :D
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1760 2013-04-17 16:43:32 <paulo_> this isn't really a dev question, but
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1762 2013-04-17 16:43:43 <paulo_> do bitcoin project heads have day jobs? if yes, how do you manage your time between bitcoin & work?
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1782 2013-04-17 17:07:55 <poggy> they get paid by the cia to develop bitcoin.
1783 2013-04-17 17:07:58 <poggy> duh
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1786 2013-04-17 17:08:56 <paulo_> oh yeah, the big gavin-visited-the-cia conspiracy theory.
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1795 2013-04-17 17:18:23 <BlueMatt> paulo_: in terms of oss projects, there are not many who dont have day jobs
1796 2013-04-17 17:18:37 <BlueMatt> gavin doesnt, nor does andreas, but Im not aware of any others
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1799 2013-04-17 17:20:32 <BlueMatt> and gavin has so much other crap to deal with re: foundation, I wouldnt say hes a full-time dev either (though he tries)
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1806 2013-04-17 17:26:00 <BlueMatt> nanotube: gribble doesnt happen to have logs that arent missing days and days like the current link, does it?
1807 2013-04-17 17:26:06 <BlueMatt> (or some other bot you know of)
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1812 2013-04-17 17:27:47 <BlueMatt> ;;seen cdecker
1813 2013-04-17 17:27:47 <gribble> cdecker was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 42 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <cdecker> If you want to be notified take a look at http://www.bitcoinmonitor.net/services/
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1834 2013-04-17 17:39:35 * BlueMatt notes a very large increase in number of inbound connections when you add a node to a dnsseed for even 240 seconds over the past 2-3 weeks
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1842 2013-04-17 17:42:10 <BlueMatt> when added for 240 seconds (+/- 60 seconds on either side for propagation), connections now peak over 300, instead of the ~200 it was only a few weeks ago
1843 2013-04-17 17:43:24 <paulo_> I have a question about fawkes signatures.
1844 2013-04-17 17:43:43 <paulo_> If we reveal the preimage, what stops them from being reused?
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1855 2013-04-17 17:55:20 <etotheipi_> sipa: can you link me again to the UTXO serialization that you came up with ? I want to compare it to what I'm trying to do
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1861 2013-04-17 18:01:19 <sipa> etotheipi_: look for class CCoins in main.h
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1867 2013-04-17 18:03:55 <etotheipi_> sipa: 3-byte height?
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1869 2013-04-17 18:04:42 <etotheipi_> heh, not complaining, I was actually pondering doing the exact same thing, and wondered whether saving that byte was worth it :)
1870 2013-04-17 18:05:20 <sipa> my varint encoding uses 3 bytes currently, yes
1871 2013-04-17 18:07:02 * nsh steals some of etotheipi_'s excess spaces
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1873 2013-04-17 18:09:07 <etotheipi_> sipa: I don't understand some of this...
1874 2013-04-17 18:09:19 <etotheipi_> I assume the goal was "optimally" compact
1875 2013-04-17 18:09:36 <sipa> you can't define optimally without a probability distribution
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1877 2013-04-17 18:09:40 <etotheipi_> yeah yeah
1878 2013-04-17 18:09:48 <sipa> some of the encodings are actually chosen after experimenting
1879 2013-04-17 18:10:19 <etotheipi_> so if I understand... there is one such entry per transaction
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1881 2013-04-17 18:10:24 <sipa> indeed
1882 2013-04-17 18:10:30 <sipa> per not-entirely-spent transaction
1883 2013-04-17 18:10:35 <etotheipi_> right
1884 2013-04-17 18:10:43 <diki> Satoshi's identity has recently become a hot topic again
1885 2013-04-17 18:10:53 i2pRelay has joined
1886 2013-04-17 18:10:56 <diki> somehow I have a feeling his identity will be discovered soon
1887 2013-04-17 18:11:11 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's effectively impossible to encode a fully spent transaction in this format even
1888 2013-04-17 18:11:15 <diki> soon can be anything
1889 2013-04-17 18:11:30 <sipa> diki: "meh"
1890 2013-04-17 18:11:52 <diki> sipa:Last time I had this feeling
1891 2013-04-17 18:11:54 <etotheipi_> sipa: some of it seems a little extreme... how are you "compacting" the ammounts
1892 2013-04-17 18:12:00 <diki> I found a block soloing in just 6 hours
1893 2013-04-17 18:12:55 <sipa> etotheipi_: at the time i wrote it, it caused amounts to be ~2.1 bytes per output
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1897 2013-04-17 18:13:50 <adlq> hi all (:
1898 2013-04-17 18:13:59 <sipa> etotheipi_: so compared to the trivial serialization, that's about a 15% reduction of the total serialized size
1899 2013-04-17 18:14:08 <sipa> of the entire UTXO set
1900 2013-04-17 18:14:14 <etotheipi_> sipa: okay... but I still have clue how to interpret it
1901 2013-04-17 18:14:14 <sipa> but yes, it's extreme
1902 2013-04-17 18:14:25 <sipa> see CTxoutCompressor
1903 2013-04-17 18:14:34 * sipa afk
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1906 2013-04-17 18:17:14 <paulo_> nevermind, I misunderstood the fawkes signature scheme.
1907 2013-04-17 18:17:15 <etotheipi_> sipa: okay, I get the gist of it
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1909 2013-04-17 18:17:54 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|Might 4xaB2BLoXC6kD8qtUmuffv be a bitcoin private key in some form? Someone tweeted it, but I suspect it's bs
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1913 2013-04-17 18:18:34 <lianj> Micha|iPhone: no, if its only a part of it
1914 2013-04-17 18:18:47 <etotheipi_> Micha|iPhone: it's 16 bytes
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1916 2013-04-17 18:19:41 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|(https://twitter.com/yolocrypto/status/324580034801176577)
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1931 2013-04-17 18:32:31 <wallet42> https://twitter.com/yolocrypto/status/324580034801176577
1932 2013-04-17 18:32:42 <wallet42> lol
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1937 2013-04-17 18:36:22 <diki> sipa:Oh no...
1938 2013-04-17 18:36:38 <diki> so now instead of serialization which is pretty much concatenation of variables in a sequence of bytes
1939 2013-04-17 18:36:47 <diki> you are going to now compress everything?
1940 2013-04-17 18:37:04 alphaguru has quit ()
1941 2013-04-17 18:37:11 <diki> This time desk bashing won't be enough to solve how it works.
1942 2013-04-17 18:38:59 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1943 2013-04-17 18:39:38 <HM2> oO
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1966 2013-04-17 18:53:59 <digin4> why not bitchcoin?
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1981 2013-04-17 19:06:46 <etotheipi_> sipa: so is the height, the height at which the txout was created?
1982 2013-04-17 19:07:15 emryss has joined
1983 2013-04-17 19:07:39 <etotheipi_> sipa: and unspentness refers to which txouts are unspent? (it's not clear how those unspentness bits is computed)
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1985 2013-04-17 19:09:03 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: height at which the TX was confirmed
1986 2013-04-17 19:09:17 <jgarzik> (and txouts obviously come from that TX)
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1989 2013-04-17 19:09:39 <etotheipi_> so you never hold txouts that were recently spent?
1990 2013-04-17 19:09:46 <etotheipi_> in case of reorg?
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1992 2013-04-17 19:10:06 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: that's what undo files are for
1993 2013-04-17 19:10:19 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: $datadir/blocks/rev*.dat
1994 2013-04-17 19:10:31 <etotheipi_> ooh, that's what the rev*.dat files ...
1995 2013-04-17 19:10:33 <etotheipi_> are
1996 2013-04-17 19:10:43 <etotheipi_> I thought that was like a leveldb artifact or something
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1998 2013-04-17 19:11:02 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: rev*.dat is only used for reorg
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2068 2013-04-17 20:24:04 <thebadplus> I just tried to buy 1 bitcoin on mtgox / coinbase
2069 2013-04-17 20:24:24 <thebadplus> it really is a huge pain still
2070 2013-04-17 20:24:56 <gavinandresen> thebadplus: file a complaint with the US treasury department and whatever international organization regulates banks....
2071 2013-04-17 20:25:48 <thebadplus> gavinandersen: Not interested in filing complaints, I'm interested in fixing problems
2072 2013-04-17 20:26:42 <gavinandresen> thebadplus: okey dokey. If you have a brilliant idea on how to make it easier, go for it! You'll make a bunch of money.
2073 2013-04-17 20:26:52 Guest34864 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2074 2013-04-17 20:27:15 <gavinandresen> (but if you do it wrong, you'll go to jail)
2075 2013-04-17 20:28:25 <EasyAt> And that makes me a sad panda
2076 2013-04-17 20:30:31 grau has joined
2077 2013-04-17 20:30:52 <thebadplus> I think coinbase is actually quite good, except that they have a limited supply that they seem to run out of constantly
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2082 2013-04-17 20:36:14 <alex_pizzza> hello is cpooler here sometimes?
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2084 2013-04-17 20:36:44 <alex_pizzza> ok I see he uses pooler here
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2116 2013-04-17 21:13:01 <wallet42> who raised that difficulty?!
2117 2013-04-17 21:14:20 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2118 2013-04-17 21:15:22 <gmaxwell> wallet42: I did because I hate you.
2119 2013-04-17 21:16:21 <HM2> lol
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2124 2013-04-17 21:18:52 <graingert> wallet42: what's the difficulty
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2128 2013-04-17 21:19:17 <wallet42> 8M
2129 2013-04-17 21:19:32 <wallet42> http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-957375
2130 2013-04-17 21:19:40 <graingert> wallet42: scary because
2131 2013-04-17 21:19:52 jtimon has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2132 2013-04-17 21:19:53 <wallet42> Zimbabwe makes history. BitCoins now official national currency.
2133 2013-04-17 21:19:54 <graingert> BitCoins
2134 2013-04-17 21:19:56 <graingert> BitCoins
2135 2013-04-17 21:19:57 <graingert> BitCoins
2136 2013-04-17 21:19:58 <graingert> BitCoins
2137 2013-04-17 21:19:59 <graingert> BitCoins
2138 2013-04-17 21:20:26 <wallet42> not sure if real or mr. mugabe is trolling :D
2139 2013-04-17 21:20:33 <graingert> iReport?
2140 2013-04-17 21:22:25 <_dr> i heard some royalty from nigera with huge amounts of bitcoin is seeking our assistance to transfer his wealth
2141 2013-04-17 21:22:55 jtimon has joined
2142 2013-04-17 21:22:58 <phantomcircuit> CNN PRODUCER NOTE Please note: CNN has not verified this story.
2143 2013-04-17 21:23:00 jj0hns0n has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2144 2013-04-17 21:23:01 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2145 2013-04-17 21:23:02 <graingert> gmaxwell: this is fake right?
2146 2013-04-17 21:23:02 <phantomcircuit> sure
2147 2013-04-17 21:23:08 TD has joined
2148 2013-04-17 21:23:21 <wallet42> i think its an aprils fool only 16 days late ;)
2149 2013-04-17 21:25:04 <vrs> it's a nice joke though
2150 2013-04-17 21:25:19 <Luke-Jr> does anyone want to attempt recovery of 0.30 BTC lost on a wiped ext4 partition?
2151 2013-04-17 21:25:54 <vrs> how big a partition are we talking about?
2152 2013-04-17 21:25:59 <wallet42> how big is the partition?
2153 2013-04-17 21:26:27 <vrs> also, zeroed over or just partition data deleted?
2154 2013-04-17 21:26:39 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, wiped? get back to me when we're at $100k
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2156 2013-04-17 21:26:44 alex_pizzza has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2157 2013-04-17 21:26:55 <Luke-Jr> vrs: 14 GB
2158 2013-04-17 21:27:03 <Luke-Jr> xz'd file is 209 MB
2159 2013-04-17 21:27:13 <Luke-Jr> I don't know how Android wipes it
2160 2013-04-17 21:27:15 <vrs> oh so you didn't zero it
2161 2013-04-17 21:27:32 <graingert> gmaxwell: wallet42: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-958981
2162 2013-04-17 21:27:37 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2163 2013-04-17 21:27:40 <phantomcircuit> if it compressed 14GB to 209 MB it's definitely blank
2164 2013-04-17 21:27:47 <graingert> phantomcircuit: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-958981
2165 2013-04-17 21:27:54 <gmaxwell> hurrah!
2166 2013-04-17 21:28:06 <phantomcircuit> ALL HAIL GMAXWELL KING OF ZIMBABWE
2167 2013-04-17 21:28:06 <vrs> phantomcircuit: even with 200MB left?
2168 2013-04-17 21:28:08 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I probably never used more than 209 MB of it
2169 2013-04-17 21:28:16 <gmaxwell> As my first action of head of Zimbabwe, I make Bitcoin the official currency.
2170 2013-04-17 21:28:30 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, 14 GB of \x00 would be about 200 MB
2171 2013-04-17 21:28:32 <BlueWall> lol
2172 2013-04-17 21:28:34 <graingert> gmaxwell: you is a the head of Zimbabwe
2173 2013-04-17 21:28:36 <vrs> you know if it's legit it's actually not such a stupid move
2174 2013-04-17 21:28:41 <gmaxwell> (somehow I suspect I will not be head of Zimbabwe for long)
2175 2013-04-17 21:28:42 <graingert> gmaxwell: not the head of Zimbabwe
2176 2013-04-17 21:28:59 <gmaxwell> aww
2177 2013-04-17 21:28:59 <_dr> Luke-Jr: you could try some leet hacker tools that search for high enropy to find ssl certs 'n'stuff in dumps
2178 2013-04-17 21:29:05 <vrs> if you're the first country to get into it you can watch undervalued btcs enter your economy and later get rich off them
2179 2013-04-17 21:29:17 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: did you ever figure out what format the android wallet stored the private keys in?
2180 2013-04-17 21:29:17 * Luke-Jr clicks "This belongs on CNN"
2181 2013-04-17 21:29:26 <vrs> Luke-Jr: what kind of fs?
2182 2013-04-17 21:29:31 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: protobuf
2183 2013-04-17 21:29:34 <Luke-Jr> vrs: ext4
2184 2013-04-17 21:29:42 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: protobuf of what though?
2185 2013-04-17 21:30:06 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: nfc
2186 2013-04-17 21:30:11 <gmaxwell> e.g. is it ascii in a protobuf string.
2187 2013-04-17 21:30:16 <helo> Luke-Jr: android wipes it with tarred images afaik
2188 2013-04-17 21:30:17 <_dr> also, I bet that bdb uses some magic values, so it should be relatively easy
2189 2013-04-17 21:30:27 <Luke-Jr> I've given up on it, just offering the data to anyone who wants to try to grab it
2190 2013-04-17 21:30:31 <phantomcircuit> _dr, it's not bdb
2191 2013-04-17 21:30:48 <_dr> i thought the wallet was, my bad
2192 2013-04-17 21:30:59 <phantomcircuit> it is but not on a phone
2193 2013-04-17 21:31:10 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, maybe im wrong
2194 2013-04-17 21:31:22 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, 1GB of \x00 xz -> 150 KB
2195 2013-04-17 21:31:49 CasimirWTF has joined
2196 2013-04-17 21:31:52 <vrs> Luke-Jr: scan_ffs perhaps?
2197 2013-04-17 21:32:03 <CasimirWTF> gmaxwell can you please let me know why you banned me from #bitcoin
2198 2013-04-17 21:32:19 <vrs> it found a bunch of stuff on an 1.5T disk my provider blitzed (but that I haven't managed to recover yet)
2199 2013-04-17 21:32:28 <_dr> hm. then i'd go with the entropy thing. or just come up with a parser that ripemds stuff and looks for a matching checksum
2200 2013-04-17 21:32:34 stalled has joined
2201 2013-04-17 21:33:26 <_dr> s/ripemd/sha/
2202 2013-04-17 21:33:41 <gmaxwell> CasimirWTF: because you were flooding the channel with some incomprehensible black helecoptor drama, and as part of it you requested that you be banned.
2203 2013-04-17 21:33:43 <Luke-Jr> so anyone want to download the data and take a crack at it?
2204 2013-04-17 21:33:47 <gmaxwell> CasimirWTF: and this is offtopic for here.
2205 2013-04-17 21:34:00 <CasimirWTF> ok np just wanted to know
2206 2013-04-17 21:34:02 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I would if I had 14GB free.
2207 2013-04-17 21:34:05 <CasimirWTF> because you didnt give any reason
2208 2013-04-17 21:34:11 <vrs> Luke-Jr: I'll add it to my bunch of images waiting to be recovered :)
2209 2013-04-17 21:34:23 <gmaxwell> CasimirWTF: I also told you this in private message.
2210 2013-04-17 21:34:33 <CasimirWTF> gmaxwell I didnt get any message
2211 2013-04-17 21:34:47 <CasimirWTF> gmaxwell nvm,
2212 2013-04-17 21:34:53 <_dr> hm, 16GB would be 751619276 160bit strings... i don't know... ;)
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2214 2013-04-17 21:35:02 <_dr> 14GB even
2215 2013-04-17 21:36:52 <wallet42> you need to find the 256 string
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2218 2013-04-17 21:38:51 <_dr> i was thinking about locating the address by shaing the 160bit portion of they key and checking the next bits to see if they are the correct checksum. the private key is hopefully bound to be in the vicinity of the address
2219 2013-04-17 21:39:09 <_dr> but 0.3btc, meh
2220 2013-04-17 21:39:36 <gmaxwell> _dr: you can assume that it's byte aligned. but the key is 256 bits not 160 not that it matters.
2221 2013-04-17 21:40:28 median^ has joined
2222 2013-04-17 21:41:36 <helo> block+fixed_offset aligned?
2223 2013-04-17 21:41:45 pierre` has joined
2224 2013-04-17 21:42:20 <HM2> wtf do you do when kill -9 doesn't work
2225 2013-04-17 21:43:02 <_dr> reboot?
2226 2013-04-17 21:45:01 <gmaxwell> echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
2227 2013-04-17 21:45:02 <gmaxwell> echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
2228 2013-04-17 21:45:04 <gmaxwell> :P
2229 2013-04-17 21:45:18 <lianj> got zombied?
2230 2013-04-17 21:46:13 <HM2> no apparently it was blocked on a filesystem syscall
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2233 2013-04-17 21:46:26 <HM2> i mounted an external drive and it's fucked for some reason
2234 2013-04-17 21:46:50 <HM2> dmesg tells me the kernel is going to wait 360s
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2236 2013-04-17 21:47:12 <diki> first time unkillable process?
2237 2013-04-17 21:47:56 <HM2> it is yeah
2238 2013-04-17 21:48:33 <HM2> I decided to pull the drive
2239 2013-04-17 21:48:36 <HM2> probably not the best move
2240 2013-04-17 21:49:15 <HM2> i daren't look at my kernel log right now
2241 2013-04-17 21:49:31 <pjorrit_> kernel should be able to handle that shouldnt it?
2242 2013-04-17 21:50:38 <HM2> theory and practice are different things
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2247 2013-04-17 21:52:01 <dino__> Question: Has anyone done a proper study of "dust" - the extra tiny amounts from transaction that may not be worth a miner's time to process?
2248 2013-04-17 21:52:11 jtimon has joined
2249 2013-04-17 21:52:22 <HM2> bastard won't mount now
2250 2013-04-17 21:52:44 * HM2 grumbles
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2257 2013-04-17 21:55:43 <pjorrit_> do i windows... reboot :)
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2260 2013-04-17 21:57:12 <HM2> reboots always fix everything
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2274 2013-04-17 22:10:27 <vrs> HM2: last time I had that happen to me I rm'd the files
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2287 2013-04-17 22:21:34 <bakingbread> why no new block in a hour? large pool was off?
2288 2013-04-17 22:21:50 WKNiGHT has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2289 2013-04-17 22:22:06 <sipa> no, statistical variatiin
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2294 2013-04-17 22:26:49 <bakingbread> sipa: ok
2295 2013-04-17 22:27:00 <sipa> ;;tblb 3600
2296 2013-04-17 22:27:02 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 hour and 0 seconds to generate is 3 days, 1 hour, 40 minutes, and 5 seconds
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2299 2013-04-17 22:27:56 <bakingbread> ;;tblb 7200
2300 2013-04-17 22:27:57 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 2 hours and 0 seconds to generate is 3 years, 40 weeks, 6 days, 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 2 seconds
2301 2013-04-17 22:28:26 <bakingbread> ;;tblb 60
2302 2013-04-17 22:28:27 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 minute and 0 seconds to generate is 10 minutes and 52 seconds
2303 2013-04-17 22:28:44 <bakingbread> sipa: ty, I see)
2304 2013-04-17 22:29:47 <diki> Do I need an account to edit the wiki?
2305 2013-04-17 22:30:28 <sipa> yes, spamprotection
2306 2013-04-17 22:30:31 Diapolis has joined
2307 2013-04-17 22:30:38 <sipa> and pay 0.01 btc
2308 2013-04-17 22:30:50 <diki> really?
2309 2013-04-17 22:31:15 <sipa> there was a ton of spam
2310 2013-04-17 22:31:27 <sipa> the price may need to be adjusted now, though
2311 2013-04-17 22:31:31 santoscork has quit (Quit: Auto logout â¦)
2312 2013-04-17 22:31:52 <diki> Well, then maybe I can have you change something for me in this article https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block#Raw block data
2313 2013-04-17 22:31:56 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2314 2013-04-17 22:31:56 <diki> it's really simple
2315 2013-04-17 22:32:47 d4de has joined
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2317 2013-04-17 22:33:47 <sipa> diki: what is it?
2318 2013-04-17 22:33:49 cyphase has joined
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2320 2013-04-17 22:34:41 <diki> sipa:It's this line 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000FFFFFFFF - prev output, the previous output is a 32byte sha256 hash, but here it's 36. The "Previous Txout-index" is merged together there
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2333 2013-04-17 22:43:02 <nanotube> BlueWall: well, gribble has some logs, don't recall when i enabled logging for -dev. i also have client logs...
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2341 2013-04-17 22:50:20 <diki> also, I'd like to ask which concepts in Bitcoin are new and which already existed somewhere.
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2351 2013-04-17 23:00:01 <HM2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Radeon-HD-7990-Malta-Engineering-Sample-/121096253149?&maxbid=250.00&autorefresh=true
2352 2013-04-17 23:00:09 <HM2> Bitcoin miners are getting desperate ;)
2353 2013-04-17 23:00:33 <HM2> (it's an engineering sample for an unreleased beast of a card)
2354 2013-04-17 23:02:22 Davincij has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2361 2013-04-17 23:11:59 <gmaxwell> presumably thats not a minerâ it'll end up on some review site or something.
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2364 2013-04-17 23:12:34 <HM2> it could just be a publicity stunt by ATI
2365 2013-04-17 23:12:41 xenesis_ has joined
2366 2013-04-17 23:12:41 * HM2 is a bit of a cynic
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2369 2013-04-17 23:13:59 <HM2> gmaxwell: someone will surely write a blogpost saying Satoshi bought it ;)
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2386 2013-04-17 23:28:40 <diki> HM2:if satoshi bought anything at that price
2387 2013-04-17 23:28:45 <diki> it would be a few avalons
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