1 2013-05-01 00:06:15 <roconnor> sipa: when was that bitcoin conference again?
   2 2013-05-01 00:06:38 <Luke-Jr> roconnor: May 17-19
   3 2013-05-01 00:07:02 <roconnor> Hmm, same weekend as BayHac
   4 2013-05-01 00:07:11 <Luke-Jr> roconnor: you going?
   5 2013-05-01 00:07:23 <roconnor> I now have 3 reasons to go to California around that time
   6 2013-05-01 00:07:32 <roconnor> so I'm more seriously considering it
   7 2013-05-01 00:07:48 <roconnor> Luke-Jr: do you have a link for the conference?
   8 2013-05-01 00:08:01 <Luke-Jr> bitcoin2013.com
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  10 2013-05-01 00:11:20 <saracen> So, somebody registered bitcoin2013.com - bitcoin2027.com
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  12 2013-05-01 00:11:35 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
  13 2013-05-01 00:11:36 <saracen> I can't help but think they should have just chosen a name that was year independant
  14 2013-05-01 00:13:45 <BlueMatt> meh, next year it will be bitcoinfoundation.org/conference...
  15 2013-05-01 00:13:51 <BlueMatt> or bitcoin14.com
  16 2013-05-01 00:13:56 <BlueMatt> or...whatever
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  18 2013-05-01 00:15:05 <Luke-Jr> lol
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  21 2013-05-01 00:16:12 <alex_fun> hey people
  22 2013-05-01 00:16:23 <alex_fun> how does transfer fee work? who gets it?
  23 2013-05-01 00:16:26 <MC1984_> bitcoin scheduled for destruction in 2028 confirmed
  24 2013-05-01 00:16:32 <alex_fun> coool
  25 2013-05-01 00:16:33 <alex_fun> :D
  26 2013-05-01 00:16:45 <alex_fun> but 2028? lol
  27 2013-05-01 00:16:47 <saracen> MC1984_: Thats what I thought too :)
  28 2013-05-01 00:16:51 <Luke-Jr> alex_fun: this is covered in the basic paper..
  29 2013-05-01 00:17:12 <BlueMatt> alex_fun: miners
  30 2013-05-01 00:17:14 gst has joined
  31 2013-05-01 00:17:29 <jchp> does anyone know if i need to pay the $300 for the hackathon?
  32 2013-05-01 00:17:30 <alex_fun> BlueMatt I understand but which miner gets it?
  33 2013-05-01 00:17:59 <MC1984_> whichever one mines the block
  34 2013-05-01 00:18:39 <jgarzik> ASICMINER is switching to solo mining: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1981542#msg1981542
  35 2013-05-01 00:18:54 sptrp has joined
  36 2013-05-01 00:18:59 <MC1984_> existential threat
  37 2013-05-01 00:19:00 <BlueMatt> well, better than pools at least...
  38 2013-05-01 00:19:05 <Luke-Jr> jchp: not sure if hackathon-only needs the fee, but Lindsay was looking for volunteers whom get the fee waived..
  39 2013-05-01 00:19:15 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: about time
  40 2013-05-01 00:19:33 <sptrp> anyone here willing to entertain a gox websocket question?
  41 2013-05-01 00:19:46 <jgarzik> sptrp: more like #mtgox material
  42 2013-05-01 00:20:01 <alex_fun> MC1984_:  ok so I send 500 coins and pay fee, that fee is attached to  a block and whoever finds it gets the fee?
  43 2013-05-01 00:20:12 <jgarzik> sptrp: #bitcoin-dev is more for core bitcoin protocol development
  44 2013-05-01 00:20:17 systemParanoid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  45 2013-05-01 00:20:19 <sptrp> jgarzik: got it
  46 2013-05-01 00:20:25 <MC1984_> the fee is attached to your txn
  47 2013-05-01 00:20:29 <BlueMatt> alex_fun: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
  48 2013-05-01 00:20:31 <jchp> Luke-Jr: hrm thanks, i guess i'll email or something
  49 2013-05-01 00:20:35 <MC1984_> whoever mines a block with your txn in skims the fee
  50 2013-05-01 00:21:03 <MC1984_> blocks are not found they are forged
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  54 2013-05-01 00:21:17 <owowo> I have a strange behavior in bitcoin-qt. I set the hook for proxy, now I want to remove it, and when I click "apply" it reappears?! Win7
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  56 2013-05-01 00:22:18 <alex_fun> If the output value of a transaction is
  57 2013-05-01 00:22:18 <alex_fun> less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of
  58 2013-05-01 00:22:18 <alex_fun> the block containing the transaction.
  59 2013-05-01 00:22:41 <alex_fun> what are those input and output values?
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  62 2013-05-01 00:23:13 <BlueMatt> alex_fun: #bitcoin maybe?
  63 2013-05-01 00:23:26 <Luke-Jr> alex_fun: read the whole paper
  64 2013-05-01 00:23:31 mollison has left ("PART #bitcoin-mining :QUIT :Leaving.")
  65 2013-05-01 00:23:37 holorga_ has joined
  66 2013-05-01 00:23:42 <alex_fun> Luke-Jr:  I read it 3 times so far
  67 2013-05-01 00:26:21 <phantomcircuit> sigh
  68 2013-05-01 00:26:23 <phantomcircuit> resendwallettransactions + getbalance == deadlock
  69 2013-05-01 00:26:27 <phantomcircuit> getbalance is very fast with small wallets so this probably doesn't effect 99.999% of users
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  71 2013-05-01 00:28:32 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
  72 2013-05-01 00:31:57 <nsh> phantomcircuit, any idea why? locking?
  73 2013-05-01 00:32:20 <phantomcircuit> nsh, something to do with something locking
  74 2013-05-01 00:32:23 <phantomcircuit> not sure what exactly
  75 2013-05-01 00:32:37 * nsh nods
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  79 2013-05-01 00:37:15 <phantomcircuit> huh actually
  80 2013-05-01 00:37:24 <phantomcircuit> maybe resend wallet transactions is just very very slow
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  83 2013-05-01 00:39:56 <sipa> phantomcircuit: how many transactions?
  84 2013-05-01 00:40:34 <phantomcircuit> sipa, how many that need to be rebroadcast or how many are in the wallet?
  85 2013-05-01 00:40:47 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  86 2013-05-01 00:41:26 <sipa> both
  87 2013-05-01 00:41:35 <sipa> mostly how many in the wallet in total
  88 2013-05-01 00:41:57 <phantomcircuit> i'll tell you when it's finished trying to resend
  89 2013-05-01 00:42:16 HM has joined
  90 2013-05-01 00:42:53 <sipa> is it using CPU?
  91 2013-05-01 00:43:09 bitit has joined
  92 2013-05-01 00:43:20 <phantomcircuit> sipa, 2-3 %
  93 2013-05-01 00:43:43 <phantomcircuit> appears to be io bound
  94 2013-05-01 00:43:51 <phantomcircuit> 120 iops on a conventional hdd
  95 2013-05-01 00:43:52 <sipa> huh
  96 2013-05-01 00:44:05 Zero9 has joined
  97 2013-05-01 00:44:07 <sipa> why would that operation need IO at all??
  98 2013-05-01 00:44:36 <nsh> i can't see at a glance how resentwallettransactions + getbalance  would cause a deadlock  (both try to lock cs_wallet before anything else)
  99 2013-05-01 00:44:54 <nsh> (could be deeper in the stack though)
 100 2013-05-01 00:45:09 <phantomcircuit> nsh, i revised my assessment to just being very slow
 101 2013-05-01 00:45:17 <nsh> right
 102 2013-05-01 00:45:36 sacrelege has joined
 103 2013-05-01 00:45:59 <nsh> strace for the disk IO maybe
 104 2013-05-01 00:48:53 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 105 2013-05-01 00:49:04 <phantomcircuit> 83722 transactions
 106 2013-05-01 00:49:09 <phantomcircuit> i guess that'd do it...
 107 2013-05-01 00:49:31 <sipa> still doesn't make sense
 108 2013-05-01 00:49:43 <sipa> i see many strange things in that code that could explain slowness
 109 2013-05-01 00:51:24 jaequery has joined
 110 2013-05-01 00:52:22 franl has joined
 111 2013-05-01 00:52:59 <alex_fun> With Diversity Path Mesh (left) all data packets  propagate across the mesh, and every node in the mesh, in a single wave.  A strict synchronistic mechanism prevents transmitted packets from  echoing around the nodes as unwanted reflections and loops. Is that what BTC is using to send coins?
 112 2013-05-01 00:53:04 mollison has joined
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 116 2013-05-01 00:54:02 <phantomcircuit> alex_fun, not really mostly btc is using how cheap it is to send/verify an inv packet to avoid loops
 117 2013-05-01 00:54:05 <phantomcircuit> and other nonsense
 118 2013-05-01 00:55:16 <alex_fun> what do you mean by inv packet how can then I node send transaction to all nodes in 1 wave?
 119 2013-05-01 00:55:19 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
 120 2013-05-01 00:56:18 <nsh> alex_fun, did you read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Network ?
 121 2013-05-01 00:56:46 <alex_fun> nsh I read http://www.iebmedia.com/index.php?id=7052&parentid=63&themeid=255&hft=58&showdetail=true&bb=1&PHPSESSID=2pp1pj1em2ptc9g75l0ah8muo4
 122 2013-05-01 00:57:03 <alex_fun> each node in full mesh is connected to all nodes
 123 2013-05-01 00:57:16 <sipa> that's wrong
 124 2013-05-01 00:57:26 <nsh> ok, but i thought we were talking about bitcoin
 125 2013-05-01 00:57:32 <nsh> *Bitcoin
 126 2013-05-01 00:57:32 <sipa> not every node is connected to eachother
 127 2013-05-01 00:57:43 <alex_fun> so its partial mesh topology?
 128 2013-05-01 00:58:23 <sipa> a random graph, essentially
 129 2013-05-01 00:58:55 <alex_fun> sipa so each node makes random connections when it sends coins to any node it linked to?
 130 2013-05-01 00:59:03 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 131 2013-05-01 00:59:06 <alex_fun> there are clearly some system as to how it works
 132 2013-05-01 00:59:08 <alex_fun> *is
 133 2013-05-01 00:59:29 <sipa> parse error
 134 2013-05-01 00:59:38 Haifisch has joined
 135 2013-05-01 00:59:56 <alex_fun> what does not parse
 136 2013-05-01 00:59:58 <alex_fun> which error? :D
 137 2013-05-01 01:00:11 <alex_fun> you mean i am talking illogically?
 138 2013-05-01 01:00:35 <sipa> i cannot make sense out of "there are clearly some system as to how it works - *is"
 139 2013-05-01 01:00:45 mE\Ta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 140 2013-05-01 01:00:50 <sipa> and it doesn't just make connections when sending, nodes are always connected to eachother
 141 2013-05-01 01:02:02 matjeh has joined
 142 2013-05-01 01:02:06 <syskk> this is ridiculous…
 143 2013-05-01 01:02:12 <syskk> im getting this error now : "E: Couldn't download dists/lucid/main/binary-i386/Packages
 144 2013-05-01 01:02:36 <syskk> after running $ bin/make-base-vm --lxc --arch i386
 145 2013-05-01 01:02:48 <syskk> apt-cache-ng is running
 146 2013-05-01 01:05:54 <owowo> is there a difference between -proxy and -tor?
 147 2013-05-01 01:07:22 <owowo> yes there is!
 148 2013-05-01 01:08:54 <syskk> ah its looking for lucid but my OS is Precise
 149 2013-05-01 01:08:55 <syskk> weird
 150 2013-05-01 01:09:16 <sipa> syskk: that shouldn't matter
 151 2013-05-01 01:09:18 <syskk> sipa: any idea what the problem might be now?
 152 2013-05-01 01:09:21 <syskk> haha
 153 2013-05-01 01:09:23 <sipa> syskk: not really
 154 2013-05-01 01:09:35 <sipa> though i've seen problems like that myself when my network connection was flaky
 155 2013-05-01 01:09:49 <syskk> its not a network problem
 156 2013-05-01 01:09:57 <syskk> it happens really quick
 157 2013-05-01 01:10:31 ashman has joined
 158 2013-05-01 01:10:35 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 159 2013-05-01 01:10:53 <syskk> its ridiculous, i've been trying to build bitcoin-qt for hours
 160 2013-05-01 01:10:56 <sipa> did you set up the network bridge?
 161 2013-05-01 01:11:08 <syskk> yes, i have a connection from my vm
 162 2013-05-01 01:11:16 HM has joined
 163 2013-05-01 01:11:51 ashman has joined
 164 2013-05-01 01:11:51 <sipa> gitian is a beast, i know
 165 2013-05-01 01:11:59 <sipa> takes a long time to get working
 166 2013-05-01 01:12:00 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 167 2013-05-01 01:12:00 atweiden has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 168 2013-05-01 01:12:10 <syskk> yep
 169 2013-05-01 01:12:15 <syskk> let me show you the full output
 170 2013-05-01 01:12:19 <sipa> and running it inside another VM layer doesn't improve things probably
 171 2013-05-01 01:12:53 <syskk> http://pastebin.ca/2370390
 172 2013-05-01 01:14:03 ashman has joined
 173 2013-05-01 01:14:42 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 174 2013-05-01 01:14:53 <syskk> i dont even know where to start loookings for a problem
 175 2013-05-01 01:15:48 ashman has joined
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 179 2013-05-01 01:16:19 <syskk> also why is it connection to localhost to download packages .. thats weird
 180 2013-05-01 01:16:36 aassaa has joined
 181 2013-05-01 01:16:37 <syskk> whats the point of apt-cache-ng exactly?
 182 2013-05-01 01:16:42 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 183 2013-05-01 01:16:55 iddo has joined
 184 2013-05-01 01:18:23 <BlueMatt> when you have to rebuild over and over, downloading the same packages over and over would be really pointless
 185 2013-05-01 01:18:55 <syskk> maybe $ export MIRROR_HOST="us.archive.ubuntu.com"
 186 2013-05-01 01:19:05 ashman has joined
 187 2013-05-01 01:19:19 <aassaa> s
 188 2013-05-01 01:19:23 <syskk> for now if i can only get it to compile once I'd be extremely happy
 189 2013-05-01 01:19:28 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 190 2013-05-01 01:20:25 <syskk> BlueMatt: where does apt-cache-ng store the packages and how can I clear that cache? there is clearly something broken somewhere
 191 2013-05-01 01:21:00 HM has joined
 192 2013-05-01 01:25:05 <BlueMatt> its something like /var/cache/apt-cacher-ng or so
 193 2013-05-01 01:25:33 <roconnor> sipa: okay, I will be in the Bay Area during the bitcoin conference.  Though I doubt I can bring myself to spend hundereds of dollars on registration.
 194 2013-05-01 01:26:15 <sipa> roconnor: i'll be there until 2 weeks after the conference
 195 2013-05-01 01:26:37 <roconnor> sipa: I'll be in the area from the 15th to the 20th
 196 2013-05-01 01:26:49 <copumpkin> it seems unfortunate that the walletpassphrase command on the console takes the passphrase as a parameter
 197 2013-05-01 01:27:03 <sipa> copumpkin: how so?
 198 2013-05-01 01:27:09 <sipa> you mean shell history wise?
 199 2013-05-01 01:27:16 <roconnor> stupid .bash_history
 200 2013-05-01 01:27:23 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 201 2013-05-01 01:27:23 <copumpkin> yeah, I generally never want to see my password anywhere :P
 202 2013-05-01 01:27:37 <nsh> hundreds of dollars? is the bitcoin conference some kind of TED?
 203 2013-05-01 01:27:38 <copumpkin> if I can read it, something's wrong
 204 2013-05-01 01:27:56 Tritonio has joined
 205 2013-05-01 01:28:08 <nsh> is that just what people pay to hang around other geeks?
 206 2013-05-01 01:28:09 <roconnor> nsh: I didn't look carefully but it seems to be $200-$300 for regitration.
 207 2013-05-01 01:28:12 <sipa> roconnor: if you offer to do a talk, maybe you can get in for free :)
 208 2013-05-01 01:28:17 <nsh> that's like 3-4 festivals
 209 2013-05-01 01:28:19 <roconnor> nsh: not that I think the price is unreasonable.
 210 2013-05-01 01:28:21 <sipa> probably too late though
 211 2013-05-01 01:28:31 <nsh> "Online registration will be available until Wednesday, May 15.  Onsite registration cost will be $350 (BTC rate determined that day)."
 212 2013-05-01 01:28:42 <nsh> roconnor, what's being bought with that?
 213 2013-05-01 01:29:11 <nsh> if the answer is "access" i am not sympathetic
 214 2013-05-01 01:29:20 <roconnor> nsh: I'm no organizer, but I'm guessing conference rooms, and appitizers
 215 2013-05-01 01:29:35 <roconnor> nsh: proceedings?
 216 2013-05-01 01:29:42 * nsh nods
 217 2013-05-01 01:29:42 * roconnor is an accademic
 218 2013-05-01 01:29:49 <nsh> i don't know what money is worth :)
 219 2013-05-01 01:29:57 <sipa> copumpkin: well, i've been suggested writing a decent bitcoin RPC client, instead of the very basic raw JSON-RPC wrapper that bitcoind is now
 220 2013-05-01 01:30:19 <sipa> roconnor: i doubt there'll be proceedings in this sort of conference :D
 221 2013-05-01 01:30:34 <nsh> there should at least be a concession price for anyone who agrees not to talk abotu how awful that t-shirt logo is
 222 2013-05-01 01:30:41 <Belxjander> sipa: if you do... maybe you can make it less dense than the C++ reference client ?
 223 2013-05-01 01:30:42 <roconnor> not a very serious conference then :P
 224 2013-05-01 01:30:52 ashman has joined
 225 2013-05-01 01:30:52 <aassaa> aaa
 226 2013-05-01 01:31:11 <sipa> Belxjander: i won't
 227 2013-05-01 01:31:15 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 228 2013-05-01 01:31:17 Zero9 has quit ()
 229 2013-05-01 01:31:37 <roconnor> sipa: anyhow, I'd be willing to give a talk, but I'm not sure what I have to talk about. ... purecoin?
 230 2013-05-01 01:31:38 <sipa> Belxjander: i just suggest it to everyone who complains about bitcoind
 231 2013-05-01 01:31:47 <Belxjander> sipa: ahhh
 232 2013-05-01 01:31:53 <Belxjander> sipa: what are the complaints ?
 233 2013-05-01 01:31:54 * roconnor probably isn't an approriate speaker
 234 2013-05-01 01:32:11 <sipa> roconnor: dude, you found more bugs in the protocol than anyone else :D
 235 2013-05-01 01:32:28 <gmaxwell> I boggle at the bugs that roconnor didn't find though.
 236 2013-05-01 01:32:39 <roconnor> only 1 that I recall; and apparently I'm not the only one to take credit for that :D
 237 2013-05-01 01:32:47 <gmaxwell> Like, how come roconnor didn't find forrestv's second preimage attack?!
 238 2013-05-01 01:32:50 <gmaxwell> roconnor: slacker! :)
 239 2013-05-01 01:33:00 <roconnor> gmaxwell: what's that
 240 2013-05-01 01:33:00 <sipa> Belxjander: walletpassphrase taking an argument on the command-line for starters :)
 241 2013-05-01 01:33:06 <roconnor> gmaxwell: I've been out of touch for a year
 242 2013-05-01 01:33:52 <CodeShark> the bitcoind wallet was designed as a single-user client app
 243 2013-05-01 01:33:59 <gmaxwell> roconnor: the function used to convert the hash over transactions has trivial second preimages, if the tree size is not a power of two you can graft on a duplicate part of the tree at any non-completely filled interior node and you get the same hash out of it.
 244 2013-05-01 01:34:16 ashman has joined
 245 2013-05-01 01:34:36 <gmaxwell> roconnor: the result is an invalid block, but because of the way bitcoin fetches block the result is a node isolation attack... e.g. mutate a block, it gets rejected and the node will never fetch it again.
 246 2013-05-01 01:34:54 <sipa> gmaxwell, roconnor: how about meeting up some days after the conference? :)
 247 2013-05-01 01:35:14 aassaa has left ()
 248 2013-05-01 01:35:19 <roconnor> gmaxwell: ah, the thing is that I only looked at the protocol, not so much the rest of the implementation.
 249 2013-05-01 01:35:28 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 250 2013-05-01 01:35:29 <jgarzik> sipa: roconnor is probably second to ArtForz, in that regard ;p
 251 2013-05-01 01:35:31 <Belxjander> sipa: I would think to actually ask the user seperately for such details and deliberately avoid commandline storage
 252 2013-05-01 01:35:32 <roconnor> sipa: when do you arrive?
 253 2013-05-01 01:35:40 <sipa> roconnor: 16th, evening
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 255 2013-05-01 01:36:15 <roconnor> I'm good with meeting up before, during, or after the conference.
 256 2013-05-01 01:36:23 jMyles has joined
 257 2013-05-01 01:36:28 <roconnor> in priniciple
 258 2013-05-01 01:36:44 <gmaxwell> roconnor: fair enough I suppose, though if you don't refuse to redownload an invalid block you could be trivally flooded by someone who creates one, so it's one I think any implementation would likely have.
 259 2013-05-01 01:36:47 <sipa> knowing myself, i'll be stressing to get my slides finished before :)
 260 2013-05-01 01:37:00 <CodeShark> are you giving a presentation, sipa?
 261 2013-05-01 01:37:09 <sipa> yes, on BIP32
 262 2013-05-01 01:37:10 <roconnor> gmaxwell: I don't think I have such "fancy" logic in purecoin. :D
 263 2013-05-01 01:37:11 <nsh> no, he's designing the kids play area
 264 2013-05-01 01:37:14 <CodeShark> oh, wonderful
 265 2013-05-01 01:37:14 <sipa> well "HD Wallets"
 266 2013-05-01 01:37:18 <gmaxwell> roconnor: :)
 267 2013-05-01 01:37:23 <sipa> more buzzword-compliant
 268 2013-05-01 01:37:24 MarkyRamone has quit (Quit: MarkyRamone)
 269 2013-05-01 01:37:40 <CodeShark> yeah, BIP32 is an internal term
 270 2013-05-01 01:37:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: we've had poor luck with some of your other buzzwords!
 271 2013-05-01 01:37:56 <sipa> gmaxwell: which ones?
 272 2013-05-01 01:38:03 <gmaxwell> well, ultraprune. :)
 273 2013-05-01 01:38:03 * nsh realizes he is too far gone when he knows what BIP32 is :/
 274 2013-05-01 01:38:16 <CodeShark> gotta put some naked chicks on those slides :p
 275 2013-05-01 01:38:22 <nsh> i may as well learn all of this *mutters*
 276 2013-05-01 01:39:07 ashman has joined
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 278 2013-05-01 01:39:12 <roconnor> sipa: that sounds like an interesting talk
 279 2013-05-01 01:39:17 nova90 has joined
 280 2013-05-01 01:40:00 <sipa> roconnor: read the BIP, and won't learn anything i guess :)
 281 2013-05-01 01:40:07 <roconnor> ha
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 284 2013-05-01 01:42:25 <roconnor> gotta go
 285 2013-05-01 01:42:27 <roconnor> l8r
 286 2013-05-01 01:42:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: I expect video posted afterwards
 287 2013-05-01 01:42:51 Salve has joined
 288 2013-05-01 01:42:59 <nsh> no, at same time
 289 2013-05-01 01:43:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: just hide yourself in my backpack
 290 2013-05-01 01:43:08 <nsh> sipa is appearing as a giant disembodied videoscreen head
 291 2013-05-01 01:43:15 <nsh> just like Kim DotCom
 292 2013-05-01 01:43:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: heh, I think the airline may not like that too much
 293 2013-05-01 01:43:41 <nsh> (it was scary)
 294 2013-05-01 01:44:07 masterofmyself has joined
 295 2013-05-01 01:44:45 <alex_fun> Kimdotcom is here sometimes?
 296 2013-05-01 01:44:58 <Salve> kimble!!!!
 297 2013-05-01 01:45:03 <Salve> o.O
 298 2013-05-01 01:45:32 <alex_fun> maybe he is in silk road irc lobby sometimes
 299 2013-05-01 01:45:45 <alex_fun> alot of funky characters are there :)
 300 2013-05-01 01:46:03 <owowo> what's the difference between -proxy and -tor?
 301 2013-05-01 01:46:12 da2ce7 has joined
 302 2013-05-01 01:46:51 <alex_fun> tors mixes all participants ips often?
 303 2013-05-01 01:46:52 <sipa> owowo: -tor is only used to for connections to hidden service nodes
 304 2013-05-01 01:47:03 <sipa> -proxy is used for all connections
 305 2013-05-01 01:47:16 <alex_fun> tor is very nice
 306 2013-05-01 01:47:42 <owowo> ok, so if I use -tor I am also "visible" to normal connection? WAN?
 307 2013-05-01 01:47:53 <sipa> define visible
 308 2013-05-01 01:47:54 Aexoden has joined
 309 2013-05-01 01:48:04 <sipa> and read doc/tor.txt
 310 2013-05-01 01:48:10 <owowo> ok
 311 2013-05-01 01:48:31 <alex_fun> which transactions go to transaction pool ?
 312 2013-05-01 01:48:36 nizeguy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 313 2013-05-01 01:48:58 <owowo> visible means my WAN-IP  is connected to bitcoin network
 314 2013-05-01 01:49:30 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 315 2013-05-01 01:49:35 <sipa> alex_fun: which transaction pool?
 316 2013-05-01 01:49:44 <sipa> owowo: -onlynet=tor
 317 2013-05-01 01:49:51 aassaa has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 318 2013-05-01 01:49:53 <sipa> or -proxy=yourtor
 319 2013-05-01 01:50:06 <alex_fun> I read on wiki transaction pool  an unordered collection of transactions that are not in blocks in the main chain, but for which we have input transactions
 320 2013-05-01 01:50:26 <owowo> I want WAN only tor LAN no proxy. Is that possible?
 321 2013-05-01 01:50:43 <alex_fun> are those coins send which are not yet been included in block?
 322 2013-05-01 01:50:52 <sipa> alex_fun: indeed
 323 2013-05-01 01:50:56 <sipa> that's the memory pool
 324 2013-05-01 01:54:10 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 325 2013-05-01 01:54:44 <alex_fun> to get reward minerd sends hash to bitcoind to see it is >= current target, if some one sends me inv which activates get data that receives tx (aka coins transaction from some node) how do I add it to the block I am trying to build via mining?
 326 2013-05-01 01:55:06 <alex_fun> to claim tx reward
 327 2013-05-01 01:55:14 <BlueMatt> it goes in mempool
 328 2013-05-01 01:55:21 <BlueMatt> and new blocks are generated using mempool set
 329 2013-05-01 01:56:59 moore has joined
 330 2013-05-01 01:59:56 <alex_fun> this mempool where this collection of transaction is stored? locally on each node who received them?
 331 2013-05-01 02:00:58 <sipa> every node has a mempool, yes
 332 2013-05-01 02:03:08 <alex_fun> then whoever finds hash >= current target can claim all the tx fees in that block provided its accepted by network and not orphaned? via sending block message
 333 2013-05-01 02:03:43 CaptainBlaze has left ()
 334 2013-05-01 02:04:06 <alex_fun> I got 0.xxx something once i guess it was text fee that came with solved block
 335 2013-05-01 02:04:26 <sipa> it needs to be below the target hash
 336 2013-05-01 02:04:51 <alex_fun> i read on wiki less or equal
 337 2013-05-01 02:04:55 <alex_fun> maybe wrong info then
 338 2013-05-01 02:05:00 jMyles has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 339 2013-05-01 02:05:01 <sipa> could be
 340 2013-05-01 02:05:12 <sipa> but not >= :)
 341 2013-05-01 02:05:19 Chuky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 342 2013-05-01 02:05:24 <BlueMatt> if you get equal, I will personally pay you 100 bitcoins
 343 2013-05-01 02:05:33 <alex_fun> oooo
 344 2013-05-01 02:05:38 <alex_fun> sounds good :D
 345 2013-05-01 02:07:26 <sipa> yes, BlueMatt has a very generous personality
 346 2013-05-01 02:07:32 <sipa> at least, stochastically generous
 347 2013-05-01 02:07:52 <phantomcircuit> Z---wizkid057's block--OMFG I DID IT YAY!O
 348 2013-05-01 02:07:53 <phantomcircuit> lol
 349 2013-05-01 02:08:16 <alex_fun> for example I am connected to 8 nodes I am sending 100 coins to Matt, those nodes got info into they mempool, do they in turn send them to their connections? so its kind of delayed wave flood based on partial mesh network?
 350 2013-05-01 02:08:24 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 351 2013-05-01 02:08:30 <sipa> alex_fun: yes, gossip network
 352 2013-05-01 02:09:33 <alex_fun> then I need to wait till someone produces new block and bingo coins are assigned to new owner as per satoshi paper :)
 353 2013-05-01 02:09:36 <alex_fun> hehe nice!!!!!!!
 354 2013-05-01 02:10:07 <alex_fun> however many times when I solved block I got only 50 coins not 50 plus transfer fees? how come?
 355 2013-05-01 02:10:31 <wizkid057> phantomcircuit: :D
 356 2013-05-01 02:10:52 <sipa> alex_fun: how do you mine?
 357 2013-05-01 02:11:01 <alex_fun> solo mining
 358 2013-05-01 02:11:16 <sipa> what hardware?
 359 2013-05-01 02:11:22 <phantomcircuit> there's an entire python script in there also
 360 2013-05-01 02:11:28 <phantomcircuit> people are weird
 361 2013-05-01 02:11:41 <Belxjander> phantomcircuit: python script !?!? in the blockchain???
 362 2013-05-01 02:12:00 <BlueMatt> dont forget ascii bernake
 363 2013-05-01 02:12:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, who could ever forget that???
 364 2013-05-01 02:12:35 <phantomcircuit> there's also a bunch of stuff like firmware private keys that were leaked
 365 2013-05-01 02:12:49 <phantomcircuit> and then just nonsense
 366 2013-05-01 02:12:50 <phantomcircuit> <</Length 27 0 R/Filter/FlateDecode>>
 367 2013-05-01 02:12:51 <phantomcircuit> wat
 368 2013-05-01 02:13:07 <alex_fun> well nowdays I sometimes use a) large cluster (costly however good for experiment)  and bunch of gpus and learning how make fpgas with friends, to be honest I got 50 so far from easier diff coins yet they all work the same :)
 369 2013-05-01 02:13:24 Squid_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 370 2013-05-01 02:13:57 jMyles has joined
 371 2013-05-01 02:14:22 <phantomcircuit> oh i see someone dumped the hidden wiki front page
 372 2013-05-01 02:14:23 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 373 2013-05-01 02:14:34 <alex_fun> lol where?
 374 2013-05-01 02:14:42 <phantomcircuit> into the blockchain somewhere
 375 2013-05-01 02:15:23 <phantomcircuit> im guessing most of these could be removed by modifying the script and pre-calculating the hashes necessary for spending them
 376 2013-05-01 02:15:59 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: Bye)
 377 2013-05-01 02:16:08 <Belxjander> alex_fun: so if I gave you an FPGA target would you be able to make a "miner" stream for it ?
 378 2013-05-01 02:17:00 systemParanoid has joined
 379 2013-05-01 02:17:08 <phantomcircuit> hmm no actually
 380 2013-05-01 02:17:11 <phantomcircuit> that isn't possible
 381 2013-05-01 02:17:54 <alex_fun> Belxjander:  if I study more perhaps, my friend can do it more faster since he works with fpga for years
 382 2013-05-01 02:18:20 <Belxjander> alex_fun: well I have an FPGA on my machines motherboard but no real idea how to actually program it... I can program around it but not the FPGA itself
 383 2013-05-01 02:18:21 <phantomcircuit> well
 384 2013-05-01 02:18:50 <phantomcircuit> actually you could compute the state for sha256 and store that
 385 2013-05-01 02:18:51 <Belxjander> alex_fun: Lattice Semiconductor XP series "6C" or "6G" chip is what I could read off the back in the very tiny writing on it
 386 2013-05-01 02:18:52 <phantomcircuit> but uh
 387 2013-05-01 02:18:56 <phantomcircuit> seems dangerous
 388 2013-05-01 02:19:00 <alex_fun> Belxjander:  my friend said you can use software to translate from c into vhdl however results are poor or learn vhdl
 389 2013-05-01 02:19:08 rushed has quit (Quit: rushed)
 390 2013-05-01 02:20:04 <Belxjander> alex_fun: I tried learning VHDL or Verilog-HDL and didn't get very far... I'm more of the software end... I don't understand hardware programming so readily
 391 2013-05-01 02:21:04 Bjander has joined
 392 2013-05-01 02:21:39 <alex_fun> Belxjander: I am yet to figure out how entire bitcoin work, then I can write logic on paper and ask someone to make miner in vhdl as per logic
 393 2013-05-01 02:21:42 <alex_fun> for example
 394 2013-05-01 02:22:05 rushed has joined
 395 2013-05-01 02:22:27 ultra_ has joined
 396 2013-05-01 02:23:35 <Belxjander> alex_fun: I'm more just wanting to be able to throw a memory buffer at the FPGA and then read a response back later when an Interrupt can trigger a "read" signal to the original sending process
 397 2013-05-01 02:23:56 <alex_fun> so yes BlueMatt how come when I solve the block I get reward however no txt fees reward? it should be in local mempool added to the block transactions list
 398 2013-05-01 02:24:24 Bjander has quit (Client Quit)
 399 2013-05-01 02:24:32 <sipa> alex_fun: you should, but transaction fees are typically very now
 400 2013-05-01 02:24:37 <sipa> alex_fun: until recently
 401 2013-05-01 02:24:40 Luke-Jr has quit (Excess Flood)
 402 2013-05-01 02:24:43 <sipa> alex_fun: which block is yours?
 403 2013-05-01 02:25:02 Luke-Jr has joined
 404 2013-05-01 02:25:24 <alex_fun> sipa so far I solved with bbqcoin blocks feather coins bitcoin yet to come
 405 2013-05-01 02:25:30 <alex_fun> when I get more hashpower perhaps
 406 2013-05-01 02:25:50 <alex_fun> or can I try to simulate on testnet
 407 2013-05-01 02:27:10 jMyles has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 408 2013-05-01 02:27:35 cris has joined
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 410 2013-05-01 02:28:59 <sipa> alex_fun: i have no clue about how things work in those altcoins
 411 2013-05-01 02:29:22 vucx has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 412 2013-05-01 02:29:44 <alex_fun> sipa they call copied bitcoin seems so as I read via main.cpp and so on
 413 2013-05-01 02:29:55 <alex_fun> with small additions
 414 2013-05-01 02:30:07 <alex_fun> some did not even bothered to rename files :)
 415 2013-05-01 02:31:17 franl has quit (Quit: O Elbereth!  Gilthoniel!  We still remember ...)
 416 2013-05-01 02:32:13 AlbertTuring has joined
 417 2013-05-01 02:36:01 <phantomcircuit> sipa, mostly they dont
 418 2013-05-01 02:36:30 <alex_fun> well litecoin seems to work fine some far no hacks of any kind
 419 2013-05-01 02:36:57 <alex_fun> maybe becouse it used satoshi fine code with correct implementation of scrypt
 420 2013-05-01 02:38:29 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
 421 2013-05-01 02:38:35 <phantomcircuit> alex_fun, litecoin could be seriously damaged by a reasonably competent attacker
 422 2013-05-01 02:39:02 <alex_fun> damaged means attacker gets alot of coins?
 423 2013-05-01 02:39:14 <alex_fun> some could call it reward to checking code :)
 424 2013-05-01 02:39:24 <alex_fun> *for
 425 2013-05-01 02:39:54 <alex_fun> I thought artforz knew exactly how it all works
 426 2013-05-01 02:39:58 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 427 2013-05-01 02:40:08 <phantomcircuit> alex_fun, damage means sending litecoins wouldn't work
 428 2013-05-01 02:40:43 <alex_fun> hmm thats not interesting for me :) no reward
 429 2013-05-01 02:41:01 <alex_fun> I read about it, its done by sending transactional spam?
 430 2013-05-01 02:42:24 <phantomcircuit> lol
 431 2013-05-01 02:42:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i think my problem is i have 1 transaction which is stuck
 432 2013-05-01 02:43:08 <SirDefaced> phantoncircuit dust transactions and the size of the blocks?
 433 2013-05-01 02:43:38 <phantomcircuit> 0.000496 btc
 434 2013-05-01 02:44:57 <alex_fun> http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2013/04/the-flaw-that-may-bring-down-bitcoin-or-change-it-forever.html
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 452 2013-05-01 03:24:49 <alex_fun> when I want to uninstall bitcoin completely to see if i can create QT from source do I Windows:  %APPDATA%\Bitcoin   and the bitcoin dir and thats it?
 453 2013-05-01 03:25:16 <Belxjander> alex_fun: just make sure to save your wallet !!!
 454 2013-05-01 03:25:34 <alex_fun> I know :)
 455 2013-05-01 03:25:37 <alex_fun> save walled.dat
 456 2013-05-01 03:25:46 <alex_fun> wallet
 457 2013-05-01 03:26:16 Salve has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 458 2013-05-01 03:26:47 <SirDefaced> yea thats exactly what i just said, save the wallet.
 459 2013-05-01 03:29:47 qbasicer_ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 460 2013-05-01 03:30:41 qbasicer has joined
 461 2013-05-01 03:32:20 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Your github argumentation energy is impressive ;p
 462 2013-05-01 03:34:12 <alex_fun> did btc went down right now
 463 2013-05-01 03:34:15 <alex_fun> on mtgox?
 464 2013-05-01 03:34:29 <petertodd> alex_fun: take it to #bitcoin
 465 2013-05-01 03:34:38 Squidicuz has joined
 466 2013-05-01 03:34:39 <alex_fun> true :)
 467 2013-05-01 03:34:55 <saivann_> jgarzik / gmaxwell : Are you becoming uncomfortable about anything with this thread?
 468 2013-05-01 03:35:03 <The_Fly> http://pastebin.com/NfagnQsU
 469 2013-05-01 03:35:05 <jgarzik> saivann_: me, hell no.
 470 2013-05-01 03:35:13 <jgarzik> saivann_: It's normal troll behavior
 471 2013-05-01 03:35:15 <The_Fly> broken miner_tests
 472 2013-05-01 03:35:24 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I've been compiling a whole lot today.
 473 2013-05-01 03:35:25 <The_Fly> segfault, looks like null pointer ref
 474 2013-05-01 03:35:30 <jgarzik> saivann_: Internet trolls will -always- have more energy than you.
 475 2013-05-01 03:35:33 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: hah
 476 2013-05-01 03:35:56 <gmaxwell> (well technically training great big linear predictors, but same deal— computer is busy. :P )
 477 2013-05-01 03:36:09 <The_Fly> pindexPrev = 0x0
 478 2013-05-01 03:36:10 <jgarzik> saivann_: I try to state my opinion, then let things stand.  There is no value in repeating yourself, as it just fuels further responses covering the same ground.
 479 2013-05-01 03:36:39 <petertodd> gmaxwell: perhaps your computer needs to be busy enough that you read a book instead :P
 480 2013-05-01 03:36:53 <jgarzik> saivann_: Everything is archived on the Internet, so everyone knows where I stand once it's stated, etc.
 481 2013-05-01 03:37:23 <jgarzik> saivann_: and I'm an old fogie, an old codger.  I have survived Usenet flamewars, and these kids probably don't even know what a Usenet is.
 482 2013-05-01 03:37:24 <jgarzik> ;p
 483 2013-05-01 03:37:30 <saivann_> jgarzik : Fine, but if at any moment you think that this is really having bad sides on the community or anything, I want to take all of this into account.
 484 2013-05-01 03:37:42 <saivann_> :)
 485 2013-05-01 03:37:47 <jgarzik> saivann_: you gotta let people vent
 486 2013-05-01 03:37:53 <jgarzik> saivann_: and then real work happens, in parallel
 487 2013-05-01 03:38:07 <petertodd> The problem is we use reams of non-automatable troll talk as a costly signal to show support for viewpoints. But it's a flawed measurement.
 488 2013-05-01 03:38:11 <gmaxwell> Exactly what jgarzik says. None of these fruitbags have called my boss yet. (no kidding, a troll did that once— years ago— and my boss had a fantastic time screwing with his head)
 489 2013-05-01 03:38:26 <The_Fly> does bitcoind even do any mining? i see a call to GenerateCoins in init
 490 2013-05-01 03:38:27 <The_Fly> ?
 491 2013-05-01 03:38:37 <jgarzik> saivann_: We saw the same stuff when the trolls howled at removal of the drug dealing stuff from forum.bitcoin.org / bitcointalk.org.
 492 2013-05-01 03:38:46 <gmaxwell> When you get into the right zen of this, the sparring doesn't sap that much psychic energy.
 493 2013-05-01 03:38:50 <petertodd> The_Fly: the mining code has been left in mainly for testnet
 494 2013-05-01 03:39:05 <The_Fly> thanks, i wondered where those coins were coming from
 495 2013-05-01 03:39:21 <petertodd> The_Fly: Please say you are on mainnet. :P
 496 2013-05-01 03:39:39 <gmaxwell> I'm a little torqed at this newbie claiming that I lack integrity as straight fact— as though it doesn't need justification.  You can fault me in a whole bunch of ways, — but thats not one of them.
 497 2013-05-01 03:40:12 <The_Fly> petertodd: :)
 498 2013-05-01 03:40:43 <jgarzik> saivann_: The world --and bitcoin-- didn't end when the openly illegal crapola was cleared off the forums.  Nobody with any seeming impact is saying this is bad for bitcoin.
 499 2013-05-01 03:41:05 <jgarzik> saivann_: In the open source world... all the normal fights are out in the open
 500 2013-05-01 03:41:22 <jgarzik> Unlike the closed source / proprietary world, where all this stuff happens behind closed doors
 501 2013-05-01 03:41:36 <saivann_> jgarzik : Thanks. I only want to be sure that this is not having real bad impacts on anything serious in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
 502 2013-05-01 03:41:38 <k9quaint> mmm, flames
 503 2013-05-01 03:41:42 <jgarzik> saivann_: It might appear ugly, but it's a normal part of the process
 504 2013-05-01 03:41:48 <gmaxwell> Whats actually good is that some of the voices who went extremely hyperbolic when the obviously illegal stuff was removed basically went away. I think it's a pretty big net improvement to the ecosystem.
 505 2013-05-01 03:42:06 <saivann_> Indeed
 506 2013-05-01 03:42:07 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: you mean bitcointalk.org was worse than it is now?
 507 2013-05-01 03:42:12 <muhoo> haha
 508 2013-05-01 03:42:12 <jgarzik> hah
 509 2013-05-01 03:42:14 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: Yes, it very much was.
 510 2013-05-01 03:42:27 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: you are dead to me sir
 511 2013-05-01 03:42:41 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: I just notice you killed my sockpuppet
 512 2013-05-01 03:42:50 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: I did?
 513 2013-05-01 03:43:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: That is the purpose of a troll, to torq you.  :)  If they do that, The Terrrrists Win.
 514 2013-05-01 03:43:07 <alex_fun> I want to download dependencies for QT win via https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/qtgui_deps_1.zip however link is broken, is there equally trusted copy of it somewhere?
 515 2013-05-01 03:43:40 <petertodd> Hmm... For the press page, has anyone suggested fidelity bonds yet?
 516 2013-05-01 03:43:42 <gmaxwell> I am also really torqued by huge amounts of bitcoin showing up totally anonymously in my donation address.
 517 2013-05-01 03:43:54 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I would have to kill you.
 518 2013-05-01 03:43:56 <k9quaint> I really need to start reading the github threads, sounds like there is some really tasty flames there
 519 2013-05-01 03:44:16 <gmaxwell> petertodd: because all bizarrowar needs is someone mixing _money_ into it.
 520 2013-05-01 03:44:37 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: it's a bit repetative.
 521 2013-05-01 03:44:42 * Belxjander hands k9quaint the BBQ sauce and wanders away again
 522 2013-05-01 03:44:49 <gmaxwell> And I've been keeping the zinger level set to only 1.
 523 2013-05-01 03:44:49 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Oh, I can do better: lets make the sacrifice inherent, by putting the press page on the blockchain.
 524 2013-05-01 03:45:06 * jgarzik fired petertodd into outer space ;p
 525 2013-05-01 03:45:10 <jgarzik> *fires
 526 2013-05-01 03:45:13 <sipa> hey let's implement TCP/IP over blockchain?!
 527 2013-05-01 03:45:29 <k9quaint> you guys should tag the delicious threads so I don't have to sort through the chaff
 528 2013-05-01 03:45:32 <gmaxwell> Yo dawg.
 529 2013-05-01 03:45:49 <petertodd> sipa: Well, we can run it on namecoin or something.
 530 2013-05-01 03:45:54 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: need some kinda of biometric reader that discerns how funny a post is from your brainwaves.
 531 2013-05-01 03:45:56 <jgarzik> har.  upload a block... into the blockchain.
 532 2013-05-01 03:46:07 <Belxjander> sipa: a BTCproxy where you pay the proxy owner in BTC 1 Satoshi per request ?
 533 2013-05-01 03:46:20 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: if my eyes are both focused on the same thing, it is probably funny
 534 2013-05-01 03:46:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: It's your boyish looks and charm.  I never get any donations.
 535 2013-05-01 03:46:31 * jgarzik is the bitcoin-poorest of all devs ;p
 536 2013-05-01 03:46:33 * k9quaint stares at the avalon
 537 2013-05-01 03:46:46 <The_Fly> best i check the tests in master, damn the build is slow on this laptop
 538 2013-05-01 03:46:52 <sipa> jgarzik: you don't?
 539 2013-05-01 03:46:56 <The_Fly> even with -j X
 540 2013-05-01 03:46:59 <sipa> i opened my old wallet recently again
 541 2013-05-01 03:47:03 <sipa> tons of donations!
 542 2013-05-01 03:47:11 <sipa> mostly ~1uBTC, but still :P
 543 2013-05-01 03:47:16 <sipa> some are (a lot) better
 544 2013-05-01 03:47:23 <The_Fly> it's the tought that counts
 545 2013-05-01 03:47:28 <jgarzik> sipa: nope.  a 0.00001 every now and again, probably from some taint experiment
 546 2013-05-01 03:47:40 <The_Fly> hearing that restores my faith in humanity a little
 547 2013-05-01 03:47:42 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I get fairly few.  (most of the coins on 1GMaxwell are the ones I moved there for the taint rich thing)
 548 2013-05-01 03:47:45 <The_Fly> just a little
 549 2013-05-01 03:47:45 <SirDefaced> sipa i remember doing that one time for a poetry website i used to run, and someone donated 50 btc, albeit, they were 50 cents a piece at the time, but still awesome.
 550 2013-05-01 03:48:31 <petertodd> jgarzik: Heh, I noticed the PGP keys in the blockchain stunt had a 0.01 donation to Mike part way through...
 551 2013-05-01 03:49:04 <saivann_> jgarzik : Any way to poke Sirius? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150316.0
 552 2013-05-01 03:49:12 <Belxjander> someone actually PAID a pgp key INTO the blockchain !?!?
 553 2013-05-01 03:49:15 pacpac has joined
 554 2013-05-01 03:49:27 <gmaxwell> Belxjander: all of the pgp keys, in fact. :(
 555 2013-05-01 03:49:34 <petertodd> Belxjander: all 50,000 fingerprints of the PGP strong set were timestamped
 556 2013-05-01 03:49:51 <Belxjander> gmaxwell: what the heck is that !?!?
 557 2013-05-01 03:49:53 <jgarzik> Donations, past six months:
 558 2013-05-01 03:49:56 <jgarzik> 0.1613611 BTC
 559 2013-05-01 03:50:06 <petertodd> Belxjander: 1d958ef717309a81e941ad33642d86577e3f0f3630b8031937e8a5573a9ea8a1 is one of the tx's
 560 2013-05-01 03:50:40 <jgarzik> saivann_: Just forum PM, AFAIK.  I think there might be an email address somewhere.
 561 2013-05-01 03:50:43 <saivann_> jgarzik : Really? o_O I've got a full BTC for the website.. and I think it's actually much less important than your code
 562 2013-05-01 03:50:48 <jgarzik> saivann_: A bit of history...
 563 2013-05-01 03:50:56 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
 564 2013-05-01 03:51:05 <jgarzik> saivann_: I registered the domain bitcointalk.org, to split it off from bitcoin.org
 565 2013-05-01 03:51:18 <alex_fun> thats good
 566 2013-05-01 03:51:24 <jgarzik> saivann_: bitcointalk.org was turned over to Sirius, i.e. registrar passwords etc.
 567 2013-05-01 03:51:32 * saivann_ eating popcorn
 568 2013-05-01 03:51:35 <sipa> saivann_: 1 BTC is all you got in total for that site? :o
 569 2013-05-01 03:51:38 <jgarzik> saivann_: he never touched them.  I had access even after repeated pokings.
 570 2013-05-01 03:51:42 <alex_fun> :D
 571 2013-05-01 03:51:49 <jgarzik> saivann_: finally poked theymos about the domain issue
 572 2013-05-01 03:52:26 <saivann_> sipa : 1.10BTC I guess
 573 2013-05-01 03:52:34 <sipa> ah, much better!
 574 2013-05-01 03:52:36 <gmaxwell> A lot of people tell me that I'm a billionaire. If only they'd send me all these wallets I'm apparently missing and have never known about. :P
 575 2013-05-01 03:52:42 richcollins has joined
 576 2013-05-01 03:52:43 <muhoo> taint
 577 2013-05-01 03:52:57 <alex_fun> :)
 578 2013-05-01 03:53:44 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I've recieved a fair bit more than that in the last 6 months, though not much more than that in the last year IIRC. And, interestingly, most of it has been from people on IRC.
 579 2013-05-01 03:53:56 <jgarzik> Total all time donations: 26.88 BTC
 580 2013-05-01 03:53:58 <jgarzik> https://blockchain.info/address/1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
 581 2013-05-01 03:54:19 <k9quaint> I hope I didn't send any while I was blackout drunk
 582 2013-05-01 03:54:20 <alex_fun> eeee 26
 583 2013-05-01 03:54:28 <alex_fun> I was thinking more like 20,000
 584 2013-05-01 03:54:29 <saivann_> jgarzik : So Sirius is still the only one to have access to the domain?
 585 2013-05-01 03:54:31 <alex_fun> to each dev
 586 2013-05-01 03:54:36 <jgarzik> saivann_: AFAIK yes
 587 2013-05-01 03:55:15 <k9quaint> I am kind of curious where the early mined coins are (if they are still accessible)
 588 2013-05-01 03:55:27 <alex_fun> sold or kept by few peeps
 589 2013-05-01 03:55:27 <alex_fun> :D
 590 2013-05-01 03:55:44 <alex_fun> buy tons of old hardrives u might find some
 591 2013-05-01 03:55:49 <saivann_> MillyBitcoin is kind of right this time, if we can't get to contact Sirius, and maybe have more than one person holding the domain, it's a bit vulnerable
 592 2013-05-01 03:55:53 <syskk> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2012/03/28#l3229589
 593 2013-05-01 03:55:59 <jgarzik> saivann_: yes, agreed
 594 2013-05-01 03:56:01 <syskk> did anyone ever find out what caused this bug?
 595 2013-05-01 03:56:15 <The_Fly> anyone else seen "bitcoind: /usr/include/boost/thread/pthread/condition_variable_fwd.hpp:46: boost::condition_variable::~condition_variable(): Assertion `!pthread_mutex_destroy(&internal_mutex)' failed" on shutdown before?
 596 2013-05-01 03:56:16 <alex_fun> folks https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/qtgui_deps_1.zip is broken is there some mirror?
 597 2013-05-01 03:56:20 <jgarzik> No wait.  I had an older address (354 BTC), https://blockchain.info/address/17NdbrSGoUotzeGCcMMCqnFkEvLymoou9j
 598 2013-05-01 03:56:29 <jgarzik> So, 26 BTC donated in past two years
 599 2013-05-01 03:56:42 <jgarzik> Good thing Red Hat was paying me ;p
 600 2013-05-01 03:56:47 <alex_fun> :)
 601 2013-05-01 03:56:54 <The_Fly> i know sipa has at least...
 602 2013-05-01 03:56:56 <Luke-Jr> saivann_: to make matters worse, I believe the Sirius freenode nick has expired and been registered by someone unrelated to Bitcoin
 603 2013-05-01 03:56:56 <k9quaint> too bad they were not paying you in BTC
 604 2013-05-01 03:57:02 <jgarzik> yeah really
 605 2013-05-01 03:57:09 <saivann_> uh :-/
 606 2013-05-01 03:58:06 <The_Fly> hm, back to gdb i guess
 607 2013-05-01 03:58:27 <Luke-Jr> Expiration Date:18-Aug-2019 13:19:55 UTC
 608 2013-05-01 03:58:32 <Luke-Jr> we have 6 years to figure it out
 609 2013-05-01 03:58:33 <Luke-Jr> :P
 610 2013-05-01 03:58:39 <alex_fun> lol
 611 2013-05-01 03:58:47 <saivann_> Luke-Jr : Yeah the expiration date is reassuring at least :-)
 612 2013-05-01 03:59:07 <sipa> The_Fly: yes :)
 613 2013-05-01 03:59:25 <petertodd> do you have enough access to change nameserver info if needed?
 614 2013-05-01 03:59:44 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: if anyone does, I'd expect it to be Gavin
 615 2013-05-01 03:59:46 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 616 2013-05-01 03:59:47 <The_Fly> when did you see it, i see it only in the multiwallet branch, i think
 617 2013-05-01 03:59:59 [7] has joined
 618 2013-05-01 04:00:08 <The_Fly> at least after merging
 619 2013-05-01 04:00:18 <jgarzik> petertodd: don't think so
 620 2013-05-01 04:00:18 <The_Fly> i'm also looking at this broken miner_tests
 621 2013-05-01 04:00:24 jMyles has joined
 622 2013-05-01 04:00:31 <The_Fly> http://pastebin.com/NfagnQsU
 623 2013-05-01 04:00:35 <syskk> is it possible to build for windows without using gitian?
 624 2013-05-01 04:00:44 <The_Fly> but again need to confirm this is replicable in master
 625 2013-05-01 04:00:47 <Luke-Jr> syskk: yes, but nobody here uses Windows, so good luck
 626 2013-05-01 04:00:48 <petertodd> jgarzik: that's ugly
 627 2013-05-01 04:00:49 <sipa> syskk: sure, by doing what gitian does
 628 2013-05-01 04:00:49 <jgarzik> saivann_, petertodd: We got Sirius to point DNS servers where they needed to be pointed
 629 2013-05-01 04:00:54 <Luke-Jr> syskk: if you wait long enough, Diapolo might show up
 630 2013-05-01 04:00:55 <jgarzik> but no keys
 631 2013-05-01 04:01:04 <sipa> syskk: you mean in ubuntu or in windows?
 632 2013-05-01 04:03:56 <phantomcircuit> saivann_, the last time i checked none of the people on the other side of that discussion are productive members
 633 2013-05-01 04:03:58 <saivann_> jgarzik : Well it seems he's still taking is messages on bitcointalk : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4
 634 2013-05-01 04:04:07 <alex_fun> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2314
 635 2013-05-01 04:04:08 <saivann_> Last Active:	April 29, 2013, 05:01:22 PM
 636 2013-05-01 04:04:40 <alex_fun> syskk: I use both win and linux
 637 2013-05-01 04:04:46 <alex_fun> and it should be possible
 638 2013-05-01 04:04:53 <gmaxwell> hah, he's now upgraded to troll level #2, he's started stalking my posts elsewhere in order to engage in an all fronts war: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157857.msg1991174#msg1991174
 639 2013-05-01 04:04:57 <syskk> im trying to build from ubuntu
 640 2013-05-01 04:05:05 quaz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 641 2013-05-01 04:05:07 <syskk> i dont have a windows machine handy
 642 2013-05-01 04:05:08 <alex_fun> syskk: thats easy
 643 2013-05-01 04:05:22 <saivann_> phantomcircuit : Thanks for the info,
 644 2013-05-01 04:05:22 <alex_fun> or you mean ubuntu - win qt?
 645 2013-05-01 04:05:25 <syskk> but i want to build for windows from ubuntu
 646 2013-05-01 04:05:27 <syskk> yes
 647 2013-05-01 04:05:37 <jgarzik> oh yeah
 648 2013-05-01 04:05:40 <alex_fun> syssk I got win machine
 649 2013-05-01 04:05:57 <jgarzik> and then there was the time, where I was offered $250,000 for bitcointalk.org (and had the keys to it, as mentioned above)
 650 2013-05-01 04:06:01 <phantomcircuit> saivann_, and of course as a pointed out a number of them are literally criminals
 651 2013-05-01 04:06:22 <alex_fun> syskk: https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/qtgui_deps_1.zip.sig missing
 652 2013-05-01 04:06:30 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: are you talking about aantonop?
 653 2013-05-01 04:06:31 <alex_fun> jgarzik:  so how come you did not sell it?
 654 2013-05-01 04:06:35 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: ya.
 655 2013-05-01 04:06:37 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, curious as to whether you know who that came from
 656 2013-05-01 04:06:41 <alex_fun> its a nice chuck of cash
 657 2013-05-01 04:06:59 <syskk> alex_fun: what do you mean?
 658 2013-05-01 04:07:08 <phantomcircuit> alex_fun, 1) that's a low ball offer 2) are you for serious
 659 2013-05-01 04:07:18 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: if I see him in California, I will tell him you said hi
 660 2013-05-01 04:07:30 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: had never heard of them
 661 2013-05-01 04:07:38 <alex_fun> phantomcircuit: well people can allways start new forum
 662 2013-05-01 04:07:39 <alex_fun> :D
 663 2013-05-01 04:07:51 <alex_fun> especially if supported by developers
 664 2013-05-01 04:08:00 <alex_fun> sell the one for tons of cash and start new one :D
 665 2013-05-01 04:08:03 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, was the offer made by email?
 666 2013-05-01 04:08:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yes.  I recall tracing the headers at the time, and nothing looked out of place
 667 2013-05-01 04:08:28 Zero9 has joined
 668 2013-05-01 04:08:41 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, would you be willing to forward it to me (w/ headers)?
 669 2013-05-01 04:08:52 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: too lazy to dig through email
 670 2013-05-01 04:09:01 <phantomcircuit> heh
 671 2013-05-01 04:09:04 <phantomcircuit> fair enough
 672 2013-05-01 04:09:41 <k9quaint> jgarzik: you should have sold bitcointalk.org, the buyer would have been begging you to take it back 2 weeks later
 673 2013-05-01 04:09:49 <jgarzik> rofl
 674 2013-05-01 04:09:53 <phantomcircuit> ha
 675 2013-05-01 04:10:05 <Luke-Jr> lol
 676 2013-05-01 04:10:05 <phantomcircuit> ;;tslb
 677 2013-05-01 04:10:10 <alex_fun> :)
 678 2013-05-01 04:10:11 <gribble> Time since last block: 18 minutes and 38 seconds
 679 2013-05-01 04:10:21 <syskk> im really going crazy
 680 2013-05-01 04:10:26 <alex_fun> good
 681 2013-05-01 04:10:29 <phantomcircuit> ;;tslb
 682 2013-05-01 04:10:30 <syskk> been trying to build for windows for like the past 20 hours
 683 2013-05-01 04:10:33 <gribble> Time since last block: 25 seconds
 684 2013-05-01 04:10:38 <alex_fun> syssk come to Franko
 685 2013-05-01 04:10:39 DaQatz has joined
 686 2013-05-01 04:10:44 <alex_fun> we are working on it there :P
 687 2013-05-01 04:11:04 DaQatz has quit (Client Quit)
 688 2013-05-01 04:11:10 <alex_fun> i think Baltazar released dep zip however who know what he put into them :D
 689 2013-05-01 04:11:21 <Luke-Jr> k9quaint: I wouldn't expect to see most trolls in Cali
 690 2013-05-01 04:11:22 <alex_fun> the same dude who wanted to bribe btc-e :)
 691 2013-05-01 04:11:23 <syskk> Franko? is that in China?
 692 2013-05-01 04:11:32 <syskk> cause otherwise its probably too far for me :)
 693 2013-05-01 04:11:39 <alex_fun> syskk: join /Franko
 694 2013-05-01 04:11:41 <alex_fun> lol
 695 2013-05-01 04:12:11 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you may see some, but they'll lose their trollface when they're no longer anonymous :)
 696 2013-05-01 04:12:30 <alex_fun> sipa depends of course
 697 2013-05-01 04:12:30 <alex_fun> :)
 698 2013-05-01 04:12:35 <alex_fun> watch some osho videos P
 699 2013-05-01 04:12:37 <alex_fun> haha
 700 2013-05-01 04:12:56 <alex_fun> master of pertubance albeit beneficial
 701 2013-05-01 04:13:36 DaQatz has joined
 702 2013-05-01 04:13:45 <Luke-Jr> sipa: some maybe, but I'm pretty sure nowhere near the ratio on bitcointroll
 703 2013-05-01 04:14:36 <k9quaint> Luke-Jr: I attract them like bees to a field of poppies
 704 2013-05-01 04:16:43 <Luke-Jr> I wonder what happens if someone makes a sockpuppet who releases an "anarchocoin" to attract the nuts..
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 711 2013-05-01 04:23:40 <The_Fly> slightly annoying that in daemon mode i have to reattach gdb
 712 2013-05-01 04:24:12 <The_Fly> heh
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 766 2013-05-01 06:03:59 <jgarzik> sipa: is vch[0]==0 imply an invalid pubkey?
 767 2013-05-01 06:04:29 <jgarzik> sipa: it would be nice to prefer zeroed vch over vch[0]=0xFF
 768 2013-05-01 06:04:55 alex_fun has joined
 769 2013-05-01 06:05:14 <sipa> jgarzik: there is no accessor that can expose the inner data anyway
 770 2013-05-01 06:05:24 <alex_fun> :)
 771 2013-05-01 06:06:10 <jgarzik> sipa: sure.  just applying standard "init zero preferable to init non-zero" logic.
 772 2013-05-01 06:06:21 toffoo has joined
 773 2013-05-01 06:06:35 <jgarzik> sometimes compilers give it to you for free, less error prone, etc.
 774 2013-05-01 06:06:48 <jgarzik> principle of least surprise
 775 2013-05-01 06:06:52 AtashiCon has joined
 776 2013-05-01 06:07:11 <sipa> jgarzik: ok, changed
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 778 2013-05-01 06:08:10 <sipa> jgarzik: then again, using 0xDEADBEEF as intiializer for invalid data gives faster bug detection :P
 779 2013-05-01 06:09:29 <Diablo-D3> why =/
 780 2013-05-01 06:09:39 <Diablo-D3> there are CPUs that have a register hardwired as 0
 781 2013-05-01 06:10:26 <gmaxwell> because some big ass really visible value is more likely to trigger bugs and be visible in stackdumps.
 782 2013-05-01 06:11:20 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah but then you have to ALWAYS init your pointers to dead beef
 783 2013-05-01 06:11:28 <alex_fun> :)
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 785 2013-05-01 06:11:55 <Diablo-D3> and bitcoin relies on too many external libraries
 786 2013-05-01 06:12:00 <Diablo-D3> they TOO would have to be dead beefed.
 787 2013-05-01 06:12:15 <Diablo-D3> and then the OS as well
 788 2013-05-01 06:12:33 <Diablo-D3> so we end up with dead beef as the most written line in coding ever
 789 2013-05-01 06:12:53 <Diablo-D3> actually, I wonder if you can patch gcc to do that
 790 2013-05-01 06:13:03 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: obviously not, you just don't initialize and then use a deadbeafed heap allocator. :P
 791 2013-05-01 06:13:23 <Diablo-D3> btw, also, what happens when you have deadbeef as a legitimate address?
 792 2013-05-01 06:13:37 <Diablo-D3> 0 will never be legitimate
 793 2013-05-01 06:13:54 <Diablo-D3> or what happens if you're on a platform where deadbeef is too big to fit in a 16 bit address space?
 794 2013-05-01 06:13:59 <Diablo-D3> do we just shorten it to beef?
 795 2013-05-01 06:14:53 <sipa> uninitialized memory can be anything
 796 2013-05-01 06:15:10 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: 0+<small value> is often a valid address, sadly.
 797 2013-05-01 06:15:15 <sipa> using 0 just increases the chance that you don't notice you're using it without initializing
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 799 2013-05-01 06:15:28 <Diablo-D3> sipa: yes, but thats why you always init them when its important
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 809 2013-05-01 06:24:22 <koshii> When I open an old wallet file, Bitcoin-QT (0.8.1) is saying that it is corrupt. This is concerning because it has keys for quite a bit of money. What do I do?
 810 2013-05-01 06:24:30 <koshii> It is an encrypted wallet.
 811 2013-05-01 06:26:29 <Luke-Jr> koshii: how did you make the old wallet file?
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 813 2013-05-01 06:27:34 <koshii> Using Bitcoin-QT
 814 2013-05-01 06:28:34 <Luke-Jr> so you've never moved the wallet file around or anything?
 815 2013-05-01 06:29:04 <koshii> I have, yes. I put it onto a TrueCrypt volume (moved it) and created a new wallet.
 816 2013-05-01 06:29:15 <koshii> It's supposed to be "cold storage", which is why you can probably imagine the feeling in my stomach right now.
 817 2013-05-01 06:29:36 <Luke-Jr> koshii: that's probably the problem. Unless you use the "Backup Wallet" option in the menu, you may end up with a corrupt db
 818 2013-05-01 06:30:39 <koshii> What are my recovery options?
 819 2013-05-01 06:30:45 <sipa> koshii: just to assure you, the chance that you actually lost keys is small
 820 2013-05-01 06:30:48 <gmaxwell> usually not the end of the world though.
 821 2013-05-01 06:30:49 <Luke-Jr> koshii: I presume you already have the backup separate, in case recovery screws up the main file worse; try starting the client with the -salvagewallet option
 822 2013-05-01 06:31:00 <gmaxwell> hold on before you -salvagewallet
 823 2013-05-01 06:31:06 <koshii> gmaxwell: Thank you for saying so. Jesus. :)
 824 2013-05-01 06:31:06 <gmaxwell> backup _everything_
 825 2013-05-01 06:31:14 <Luke-Jr> koshii: gmaxwell and sipa know more about that option and such, so I'll leave it to them ;)
 826 2013-05-01 06:31:19 <gmaxwell> and then first delete the database directory.
 827 2013-05-01 06:31:29 <koshii> Okay
 828 2013-05-01 06:31:48 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't think salvagewallet ever (?) works correctly with encrypted wallets right now.
 829 2013-05-01 06:31:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: :|
 830 2013-05-01 06:32:12 <gmaxwell> koshii: not the whole bitcoin data directory, but just the subfolder of it called "database"
 831 2013-05-01 06:32:44 <koshii> gmaxwell: I deleted everything when upgrading from 0.7 to 0.8
 832 2013-05-01 06:33:00 <koshii> gmaxwell: With the hope of saving some space (had backed up wallet.dat assuming that was enough)
 833 2013-05-01 06:33:20 <gmaxwell> ah, and then you put the wallet.dat back in place and it isn't starting?
 834 2013-05-01 06:33:25 <koshii> That's right.
 835 2013-05-01 06:33:30 <koshii> No I mean
 836 2013-05-01 06:33:37 <koshii> It was working fine with my _new_ wallet.
 837 2013-05-01 06:33:50 <koshii> But when I put the old cold storage wallet in there, I get this error.
 838 2013-05-01 06:34:04 <gmaxwell> try starting it up with your backup restored wallet but with the database directory deleted.
 839 2013-05-01 06:34:09 <koshii> Okay
 840 2013-05-01 06:34:29 <koshii> The only thing in there is log.0000000001
 841 2013-05-01 06:34:52 fanquake has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 842 2013-05-01 06:34:57 <koshii> Please god work...
 843 2013-05-01 06:35:01 <gmaxwell> yep. just delete that directory.
 844 2013-05-01 06:35:45 <koshii> Nope. Still says Wallet corrupted.
 845 2013-05-01 06:35:47 <koshii> :(
 846 2013-05-01 06:36:10 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 847 2013-05-01 06:36:28 <gmaxwell> okay, lets try starting with -salvagewallet  (also, as an aside question— do you have any other backups of it?)
 848 2013-05-01 06:36:48 <koshii> Well I have a very old backup, but it doesn't have all the keys. It's from before I encrypted it.
 849 2013-05-01 06:37:01 <gmaxwell> Okay.
 850 2013-05-01 06:37:45 alex_fun has joined
 851 2013-05-01 06:37:52 <koshii> On Mac OS X do I just go into the Bitcoin.app/Contents/MacOS folder and type ./Bitcoin-QT -salvagewallet ?
 852 2013-05-01 06:38:01 <alex_fun> nice gui https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15276.0
 853 2013-05-01 06:38:14 <alex_fun> is it used atm by some?
 854 2013-05-01 06:38:16 Nash has joined
 855 2013-05-01 06:38:18 <gmaxwell> koshii: I believe so. (sorry, not an OSX expert)
 856 2013-05-01 06:38:21 Hasimir_ has joined
 857 2013-05-01 06:38:28 Hasimir_ is now known as Guest13373
 858 2013-05-01 06:38:29 <alex_fun> i still got old qt giu
 859 2013-05-01 06:38:33 <alex_fun> hiu
 860 2013-05-01 06:38:38 <alex_fun> gui :)
 861 2013-05-01 06:38:38 <jchp> yes, or you can type
 862 2013-05-01 06:38:48 <alex_fun> lol
 863 2013-05-01 06:38:51 <jchp> "open /Applications/Bitcoin.app --args -salvagewallet"
 864 2013-05-01 06:39:04 <koshii> jchp: Thank you
 865 2013-05-01 06:39:16 Hasimir- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 866 2013-05-01 06:39:52 <koshii> Guys, I'm so nervous...
 867 2013-05-01 06:40:02 <koshii> I thought I did everything right!
 868 2013-05-01 06:40:36 <gmaxwell> As sipa said, its unlikely that data is actually lost. Might just take some kicking to get it back. We'll help you out.
 869 2013-05-01 06:40:41 <jchp> maybe when backing up you didn't fully close out the application
 870 2013-05-01 06:40:56 <koshii> The thing is that I even checked this backup before
 871 2013-05-01 06:41:02 <koshii> But that of course was on 0.7...
 872 2013-05-01 06:41:07 <koshii> I think. Shit.
 873 2013-05-01 06:41:13 <jchp> that's why the dropdown backup is recommended
 874 2013-05-01 06:41:17 <koshii> Yeah, I get it.
 875 2013-05-01 06:41:27 <koshii> I didn't even know it was there.
 876 2013-05-01 06:42:25 <gmaxwell> koshii: if that wallet wasn't completely cleanly closed then it needs the content of the database/ directory to work right without issues. Of course, you deleted that... but again, it should just be an issue of an unhappy database, and not any real data loss.
 877 2013-05-01 06:42:26 <jchp> yeah, it's not too obvious for mac users due to menu bar, also it's not exactly clear whether or not the backup is encrypted or not, oh well
 878 2013-05-01 06:42:52 <koshii> Was there much of a difference between the released 0.8.0 and 0.8.1? Because I installed 0.8.0 first as I recall.
 879 2013-05-01 06:43:30 <koshii> Thanks for all your help everyone
 880 2013-05-01 06:43:42 <sipa> 0.8.0 and 0.8.1 are almost identical
 881 2013-05-01 06:43:47 <alex_fun> gmaxwell:  so say u run client and win crashes then u can simply reopen and its fine
 882 2013-05-01 06:44:04 <sipa> alex_fun: i wish that was true :)
 883 2013-05-01 06:44:35 <sipa> koshii: how is the salvage going?
 884 2013-05-01 06:44:39 <gmaxwell> It's supposed to be true at least, there are some issues with that, though seldom (ever?) involving the wallet.
 885 2013-05-01 06:44:54 <alex_fun> sipa I recall wallet used to have 1 issue with db when crashed it once or twice started to redownload blocks from the start
 886 2013-05-01 06:45:01 sl1982 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 887 2013-05-01 06:45:03 <alex_fun> I probably should of saved the debig
 888 2013-05-01 06:45:05 <alex_fun> debug
 889 2013-05-01 06:45:24 pacpac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 890 2013-05-01 06:45:54 <koshii> OK it says "Cannot initialize keypool"
 891 2013-05-01 06:46:02 sl1982 has joined
 892 2013-05-01 06:46:47 <koshii> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2480 - does that mean the issue should not necessarily give me a heart-attack?
 893 2013-05-01 06:47:12 <koshii> Bitcoin-QT quit :(
 894 2013-05-01 06:47:17 <sipa> right, forgot that wasn't fixed yet
 895 2013-05-01 06:47:24 <sipa> again, don't panic
 896 2013-05-01 06:47:34 <koshii> Phew. Okay.
 897 2013-05-01 06:47:56 <sipa> you don't happen to have db4.8_dump and db4.8_load on your system?
 898 2013-05-01 06:48:17 <koshii> I wish :(
 899 2013-05-01 06:48:21 <sipa> (because with those tools, it's most likely immediately fixed)
 900 2013-05-01 06:48:44 <koshii> Like I said, I deleted the whole Bitcoin directory (minus wallet.dat) after upgrading to 0.8.x the first time
 901 2013-05-01 06:48:54 <koshii> Everything I had read said that this was enough
 902 2013-05-01 06:49:17 <alex_fun> koshii maybe install old version again?
 903 2013-05-01 06:49:27 <koshii> I have in the directory now: "blocks", "chainstate", "database", db.log, debug.log, peers.dat
 904 2013-05-01 06:49:28 <alex_fun> and send coins to new wallet in 0,8
 905 2013-05-01 06:49:38 <sipa> koshii: what does db.log contain?
 906 2013-05-01 06:50:23 <alex_fun> i also did not know that saving wallet.dat alone complicated things
 907 2013-05-01 06:50:27 zw has quit ()
 908 2013-05-01 06:50:40 <koshii> https://gist.github.com/TrustArt/0c5a696de0b1446c4406
 909 2013-05-01 06:50:43 <koshii> This is what db.log says
 910 2013-05-01 06:51:21 <sipa> yeah, file refers to stuff that was in your database dir
 911 2013-05-01 06:52:19 <sipa> if you trust me enough, i can run db4.8_dump db4.8_load for you (i give it an 90% chance that that fixes it)
 912 2013-05-01 06:52:47 <sipa> (i don't need the passphrase for that, and can't access your private keys)
 913 2013-05-01 06:53:07 <koshii> Yeah, I mean. It doesn't seem like I have a choice.
 914 2013-05-01 06:53:15 <koshii> I assume you guys all vouch for sipa being a "good guy" :)
 915 2013-05-01 06:53:31 <Arnavion> He did kick my cat once
 916 2013-05-01 06:53:34 <koshii> :)
 917 2013-05-01 06:53:40 <gmaxwell> I'd recommend having sipa dbdump/dbload it. If you don't want to trust sipa (who is a core developer and wrote a significant part of the software) you could find another person skilled with linux/unix would could do it.
 918 2013-05-01 06:53:50 <koshii> No, I'm happy for the help.
 919 2013-05-01 06:54:46 <jchp> if you do send it make sure it's the newest version that you have
 920 2013-05-01 06:55:01 alex_fun has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 921 2013-05-01 06:55:08 <sipa> oh, the non-salvaged version
 922 2013-05-01 06:55:11 <gmaxwell> send the actual backup not ones that have possibly been modified
 923 2013-05-01 06:55:51 <koshii> Yeah
 924 2013-05-01 06:55:53 <koshii> Oh, okay
 925 2013-05-01 06:55:56 <koshii> Let me re-send it then sipa
 926 2013-05-01 06:58:26 <koshii> Have you guys ever had this happen to you? :-)
 927 2013-05-01 06:58:43 <koshii> I have to say, it's something like an extreme version of "oh shit I left my wallet at the bar"
 928 2013-05-01 06:59:11 <Diablo-D3> koshii: well it sounds like you fucked up the wallet db
 929 2013-05-01 06:59:15 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 930 2013-05-01 06:59:23 <koshii> Diablo-D3: That's exactly what I did, it seems.
 931 2013-05-01 06:59:27 <Diablo-D3> did you use backup wallet command or did you just blindly copy the wallet while bitcoin was still running?
 932 2013-05-01 06:59:59 <koshii> Diablo-D3: I'm pretty sure that the wallet wasn't running, but yeah, I just copied the file. I was berated for this earlier; didn't even know the command was there.
 933 2013-05-01 07:00:01 <sipa> that's what seems to have happened
 934 2013-05-01 07:00:18 <Diablo-D3> koshii: yeah, next time, explicitly use backup wallet
 935 2013-05-01 07:00:25 <koshii> Diablo-D3: You can believe I will.
 936 2013-05-01 07:00:26 <Diablo-D3> or use a livecd to backup your entire computer
 937 2013-05-01 07:00:45 <sipa> gmaxwell: heh, maybe we should move the wallet file to wallet_IN_USE_DO_NOT_COPY.dat before opining it
 938 2013-05-01 07:00:56 <Luke-Jr> koshii: I wasn't trying to berate you XD
 939 2013-05-01 07:00:59 timmon has joined
 940 2013-05-01 07:01:26 <koshii> :)
 941 2013-05-01 07:01:28 jdnavarro has joined
 942 2013-05-01 07:01:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: or database/opened.db
 943 2013-05-01 07:02:39 Steve132 has joined
 944 2013-05-01 07:02:52 <jchp> perhaps if you do that it'd be safer to just have a plaintext file that is created and removed like DO_NOT_COPY_WALLET_FILE.txt
 945 2013-05-01 07:03:07 <Diablo-D3> sipa: I agree with your recommendation to gmaxwell
 946 2013-05-01 07:03:23 <sipa> jchp: that sounds safer, indeed
 947 2013-05-01 07:04:04 <koshii> Diablo-D3: Me too :-)
 948 2013-05-01 07:04:17 <sipa> koshii: can you open the file now?
 949 2013-05-01 07:04:25 <koshii> I'm trying.
 950 2013-05-01 07:04:28 <koshii> _Something_ is happening.
 951 2013-05-01 07:04:41 <koshii> It's not given me an error yet. I am praying. :)
 952 2013-05-01 07:04:55 <mollison> i'm on the edge of my seat, having just read the whole conversation lol
 953 2013-05-01 07:05:01 <koshii> :-)
 954 2013-05-01 07:05:14 <koshii> Glad to be this night's entertainment :)
 955 2013-05-01 07:05:30 <gmaxwell> if it didn't error right away you're probably good to go.
 956 2013-05-01 07:05:36 <mollison> i'm glad to not be tonight's entertainment, myself
 957 2013-05-01 07:05:44 <koshii> gmaxwell: It's still "Rescanning"
 958 2013-05-01 07:06:37 rdymac has joined
 959 2013-05-01 07:07:08 <koshii> mollison: I'll bet.
 960 2013-05-01 07:07:21 <jchp> hopefully none of the transactions were in the keypool from the wallet.dat file used, right?
 961 2013-05-01 07:07:30 <sipa> koshii: this can take 10-20 minutes
 962 2013-05-01 07:07:32 saulimus has joined
 963 2013-05-01 07:07:34 <koshii> sipa: Oh, okay
 964 2013-05-01 07:07:40 <sipa> (depending on how old the backup is)
 965 2013-05-01 07:07:49 <koshii> Oh my godddd it worked
 966 2013-05-01 07:07:56 * koshii kisses sipa on the mouth
 967 2013-05-01 07:07:57 SirDefaced has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 968 2013-05-01 07:08:03 <koshii> You sweet, sweet man!
 969 2013-05-01 07:08:05 * sipa quickly steals koshii's coins
 970 2013-05-01 07:08:09 <koshii> :-)
 971 2013-05-01 07:08:19 <Diablo-D3> koshii: remember to donate to sipa's beer fund
 972 2013-05-01 07:08:22 <jchp> lol congrats. so here's a question, it's probably a good idea to send the coins to an entirely new wallet right?
 973 2013-05-01 07:08:29 <koshii> Hell yes. Give me an address.
 974 2013-05-01 07:08:43 <Luke-Jr> 1EaXJ1qy1pe5oy6yDTL6vWn1kcdVSpZoyS
 975 2013-05-01 07:08:50 <Diablo-D3> bad luke
 976 2013-05-01 07:08:53 <koshii> Luke-Jr: Is that yours? :)
 977 2013-05-01 07:08:53 SirDefaced has joined
 978 2013-05-01 07:08:54 <koshii> hahaha
 979 2013-05-01 07:08:57 <Diablo-D3> no stealing sipa's coins
 980 2013-05-01 07:08:58 <jchp> lol
 981 2013-05-01 07:08:58 <Luke-Jr> of course ;P
 982 2013-05-01 07:09:05 <koshii> Jesus, you guys. :-)
 983 2013-05-01 07:09:11 <jchp> ready with an address so quickly :-P
 984 2013-05-01 07:09:16 <sipa> well, koshii said "given me an address", he didn't say whose address :p
 985 2013-05-01 07:09:20 <Diablo-D3> he probably has an alias for it
 986 2013-05-01 07:09:24 <Luke-Jr> sipa: exactly
 987 2013-05-01 07:09:58 <sipa> koshii: i'm more embarrassed that we're still that bad at dealing with trivial database problems
 988 2013-05-01 07:10:02 * Luke-Jr ponders putting together a regex trigger to generate and post addresses <.<
 989 2013-05-01 07:12:48 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 990 2013-05-01 07:13:25 <koshii> There's no chance that my decryption password has stopped working, right? Should I test sending from this wallet?
 991 2013-05-01 07:14:29 <sipa> at least try whether unlocking works
 992 2013-05-01 07:14:37 <Luke-Jr> personally I'd send it all, just so there's no surprises
 993 2013-05-01 07:14:41 <jchp> if that happened to me, i'd be sending all the coins to a new wallet (with the backup for the new wallet verified to work) just in case, do it all in 1 transaction if you're paranoid.
 994 2013-05-01 07:15:19 <koshii> Okay. Sipa, let me do that before I send your tip.
 995 2013-05-01 07:16:08 <jchp> don't mix up your wallet files
 996 2013-05-01 07:16:23 <koshii> jchp: Good advice. :)
 997 2013-05-01 07:17:22 g0thX has joined
 998 2013-05-01 07:18:03 GMP has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 999 2013-05-01 07:18:08 Arnavion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1000 2013-05-01 07:18:20 Arnavion has joined
1001 2013-05-01 07:18:36 Toresh_ has joined
1002 2013-05-01 07:18:41 Toresh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1003 2013-05-01 07:18:41 Toresh_ is now known as Toresh
1004 2013-05-01 07:24:19 <koshii> So what do you guys think of Ripple?
1005 2013-05-01 07:24:31 <Diablo-D3> its kinda stupid
1006 2013-05-01 07:24:36 whiterabbit has joined
1007 2013-05-01 07:24:39 <Diablo-D3> its centrally issued and its not a distributed protocol
1008 2013-05-01 07:25:00 <koshii> Isn't it a distributed protocol?
1009 2013-05-01 07:25:08 <koshii> That's what they've been saying, right?
1010 2013-05-01 07:25:29 <jchp> it effectively requires you to do a credit check every time you accept money, it's a good replacement for Hawala network though
1011 2013-05-01 07:25:29 <Belxjander> koshii: not really... there is a central mint/management with policy in play...
1012 2013-05-01 07:25:30 <Diablo-D3> its partially distributed
1013 2013-05-01 07:25:42 <koshii> I know it's a "central mint"
1014 2013-05-01 07:25:45 <Belxjander> koshii: makes it a cryptocurrency that works like a state currency afaiac
1015 2013-05-01 07:25:47 <sipa> distributed doesn't mean decentralized
1016 2013-05-01 07:25:49 fanquake has joined
1017 2013-05-01 07:26:04 <Diablo-D3> like, I think the central bank still signs off on blocks
1018 2013-05-01 07:26:05 <Diablo-D3> in their model
1019 2013-05-01 07:26:05 <koshii> Their distribution sucks for sure, but the rest of it? Has anyone seen rippled yet for example?
1020 2013-05-01 07:26:08 <sipa> DNS is a distributed system, but highly centralized
1021 2013-05-01 07:26:13 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1022 2013-05-01 07:26:14 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1023 2013-05-01 07:26:25 iddo has joined
1024 2013-05-01 07:26:25 whiterab2it has joined
1025 2013-05-01 07:26:39 whiterab2it is now known as wrabbit
1026 2013-05-01 07:30:20 <jgm> Just been playing with the blokchain, some interesting stats regarding dust (haven't seent these before):
1027 2013-05-01 07:30:39 rdymac has joined
1028 2013-05-01 07:30:45 <jgm> Total number of unspent transactions: ~5,000,000
1029 2013-05-01 07:30:46 whiterabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1030 2013-05-01 07:31:02 <jgm> Total number of unspent transactions which are dust: ~2,100,000
1031 2013-05-01 07:31:06 X-Factor has joined
1032 2013-05-01 07:31:09 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1033 2013-05-01 07:31:21 X-Factor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1034 2013-05-01 07:31:23 dansmith_btc has joined
1035 2013-05-01 07:31:26 <sipa> transactions, or transaction outputs?
1036 2013-05-01 07:31:33 <sipa> outputs
1037 2013-05-01 07:31:38 Steve132 has joined
1038 2013-05-01 07:31:41 <jgm> (With dust being <5,430 satoshis)
1039 2013-05-01 07:31:49 <jgm> Sorry yeah outputs
1040 2013-05-01 07:32:01 <sipa> 1777364 unspent transactions, 5105193 unspent outputs
1041 2013-05-01 07:32:15 <SomeoneWeird> wow
1042 2013-05-01 07:32:27 <jgm> Total value of dust in those unspent transactions: ~20BTC
1043 2013-05-01 07:32:37 <jgm> (outputs, again, sorry)
1044 2013-05-01 07:33:22 <jgm> So yeah looks like dust is a definite and painful problem.
1045 2013-05-01 07:33:31 <koshii> Dust?
1046 2013-05-01 07:33:38 <sipa> UTXO set is 186MB already
1047 2013-05-01 07:34:00 X-Factor has joined
1048 2013-05-01 07:34:39 <jgm> sipa: anything else that you can think of that could be useful?
1049 2013-05-01 07:34:50 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1050 2013-05-01 07:35:33 <g0thX> UTXO is unspent transaction outputs?
1051 2013-05-01 07:35:36 Arnavion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1052 2013-05-01 07:35:36 Steve132 has quit (Client Quit)
1053 2013-05-01 07:35:36 Arnavion has joined
1054 2013-05-01 07:35:39 <koshii> What is dust?
1055 2013-05-01 07:35:44 Steve132 has joined
1056 2013-05-01 07:35:48 <jgm> koshii: very small amounts of btc
1057 2013-05-01 07:36:06 <jgm> g0thX: yep
1058 2013-05-01 07:36:13 <mollison> jgm: why is dust a problem?
1059 2013-05-01 07:36:14 Arnavion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1060 2013-05-01 07:36:25 <g0thX> jpm: thnx
1061 2013-05-01 07:36:26 Arnavion has joined
1062 2013-05-01 07:36:51 <Luke-Jr> mollison: every unspent coin, regardless of size, must be stored in the memory of every bitcoin node
1063 2013-05-01 07:38:01 <sipa> s/in the memory/in a quickly-accessible way/
1064 2013-05-01 07:38:01 <Luke-Jr> mollison: dust not only adds to this, but because it's so small that it would cost more to spend than ignore, it's unlikely to ever *leave* the "unspent" status
1065 2013-05-01 07:38:02 <Luke-Jr> sipa: wtf is that symobl? O.o
1066 2013-05-01 07:38:03 <sipa> which?
1067 2013-05-01 07:38:05 <Luke-Jr> 
1068 2013-05-01 07:38:16 <sipa> i see just a space...
1069 2013-05-01 07:38:24 Arnavion has quit (Client Quit)
1070 2013-05-01 07:38:24 <koshii> But doesn't dust eventually become mBTC, etc?
1071 2013-05-01 07:38:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa: character map tells me it's U+007F (delete)
1072 2013-05-01 07:38:38 <sipa> koshii: bitcoin tracks coins individually, not balances
1073 2013-05-01 07:38:45 <mollison> i also see a funny character there.
1074 2013-05-01 07:38:48 Arnavion has joined
1075 2013-05-01 07:38:49 <Luke-Jr> koshii: not unless it's spent with other coins
1076 2013-05-01 07:38:50 <SomeoneWeird> i don't
1077 2013-05-01 07:38:52 <sipa> koshii: even though the wallet presents it just as sum
1078 2013-05-01 07:38:53 <SomeoneWeird> i see it too
1079 2013-05-01 07:38:57 <jgm> About 400,000 transactions whose UTXO are only dust
1080 2013-05-01 07:38:59 <SomeoneWeird> <sipa> 
1081 2013-05-01 07:39:00 <SomeoneWeird> lol
1082 2013-05-01 07:39:09 <koshii> Really!
1083 2013-05-01 07:39:10 <sipa> hunter2
1084 2013-05-01 07:39:23 <koshii> So one "Bitcoin" is not just some arbitrary thing
1085 2013-05-01 07:39:50 Arnavion has quit (Client Quit)
1086 2013-05-01 07:39:56 <Luke-Jr> koshii: one bitcoin generally means 1 BTC, but "a coin" can be any size in this context
1087 2013-05-01 07:39:57 <sipa> 1 BTC is one or more coins whose value is 100 million satoshi :)
1088 2013-05-01 07:40:02 <Luke-Jr> the latter is also called an "output"
1089 2013-05-01 07:40:04 <mollison> koshii: quantities are tracked down to .00000001 bitcoins, i.e., one satoshi
1090 2013-05-01 07:40:08 <koshii> How can I unlock a wallet in Bitcoin-QT? I don't see any place to do that.
1091 2013-05-01 07:40:15 Arnavion has joined
1092 2013-05-01 07:40:23 <koshii> Luke-Jr: I thought so.
1093 2013-05-01 07:40:34 <mollison> koshii: but satoshis are only tracked at the level of transactions inputs and outputs, not "individually"
1094 2013-05-01 07:40:42 <sipa> koshii: go to the debug console and type 'walletpassphrase <passphrase> 1'
1095 2013-05-01 07:40:51 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1096 2013-05-01 07:41:51 <koshii> sipa: If it has special characters, do I have to wrap the passphrase in something?
1097 2013-05-01 07:41:53 <koshii> quotes?
1098 2013-05-01 07:41:56 <sipa> yes
1099 2013-05-01 07:41:57 <koshii> Actually there are quotes in the password. :)
1100 2013-05-01 07:42:28 <sipa> there's likely a way to escape them, but i wouldn't know
1101 2013-05-01 07:42:30 <Luke-Jr> koshii: single quotes then
1102 2013-05-01 07:42:40 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it emulates bash
1103 2013-05-01 07:42:45 <sipa> oh, cool
1104 2013-05-01 07:42:51 <Luke-Jr> at least for quoting
1105 2013-05-01 07:42:55 mollison has left ("PART #bitcoin-mining :QUIT :Leaving.")
1106 2013-05-01 07:42:56 <Luke-Jr> I don't think it lets you do $() or ``
1107 2013-05-01 07:42:56 <koshii> Single quotes did not work
1108 2013-05-01 07:43:00 <koshii> No big deal
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1112 2013-05-01 07:44:03 <Luke-Jr> koshii: note that "just" unlocking your wallet doesn't actually do much - it tells you nothing about whether your private keys are intact
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1114 2013-05-01 07:44:31 <sipa> it checks that at least one private key matches the public key
1115 2013-05-01 07:45:43 <koshii> Heh okay
1116 2013-05-01 07:45:57 <Luke-Jr> sipa: but that could just as likely be an unused one, no?
1117 2013-05-01 07:46:03 <sipa> indeed
1118 2013-05-01 07:46:25 <koshii> So something I didn't realize about Bitcoin until now, is that when I sent Sipa that tip, it actually showed it coming from the old balance of a now-combined wallet
1119 2013-05-01 07:46:30 <koshii> (on blockchain.info)
1120 2013-05-01 07:46:57 <koshii> Does that mean it's always tracking back to the original addresses? If so how does 'laundering' ever work and how do Silk Road folks manage to do what they do?
1121 2013-05-01 07:47:01 <sipa> koshii: read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
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1124 2013-05-01 07:55:28 <koshii> gmaxwell/luke/sipa: Round of beers on me at Bitcoin2013
1125 2013-05-01 07:56:16 <koshii> gmaxwell/luke: You both coming?
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1131 2013-05-01 07:58:29 <Luke-Jr> koshii: yep
1132 2013-05-01 07:58:52 <koshii> Sweet.
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1143 2013-05-01 08:24:51 <neckyjive> is there a way to calculate the appropriate transaction fee before sending with "sendfrom" ?
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1147 2013-05-01 08:29:51 <koshii> Goodnight guys
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1152 2013-05-01 08:32:45 <Luke-Jr> neckyjive: I have a pull request that allows that, open for over a year now :p
1153 2013-05-01 08:35:36 <neckyjive> well how the QT-ui calculate it then ? Although it probably uses sendto right ?
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1168 2013-05-01 08:55:11 <Luke-Jr> neckyjive: it uses internals
1169 2013-05-01 08:55:56 <neckyjive> hm. ok I thought the QT only calls RPC.
1170 2013-05-01 08:58:11 <neckyjive> what's the practical way to guess the fee ? Should 0.0005 make most transactions go through ?
1171 2013-05-01 08:59:00 <Belxjander> neckyjive: I'cve seen most go through with the 0.0005 fee
1172 2013-05-01 08:59:22 <neckyjive> cool thanks
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1184 2013-05-01 09:18:30 <Dom__>  the misbehaving var used to identify misbehaving nodes based on message size, is that only local? or is the misbehaving value passed around the network with other node info??
1185 2013-05-01 09:19:27 Diapolo has joined
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1187 2013-05-01 09:22:11 <syskk> thank god i was finally able to create the VM for gitian
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1193 2013-05-01 09:28:04 <syskk> here's what i am seeing at the moment: http://pastebin.ca/2370576  .. is it a good or bad sign?
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1196 2013-05-01 09:33:14 <Diapolo> Just want to mention, is this interesting for us? https://lists.strongswan.org/pipermail/announce/2013-April/000078.html
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1198 2013-05-01 09:35:21 <jgm> Time for another useless fact: 20% of all addresess in the blockchain have been used as an output in more than one transaction
1199 2013-05-01 09:35:40 <jgm> (Possibly skewed by some 'well-known' addresses such as SD)
1200 2013-05-01 09:36:22 <Luke-Jr> jgm: skewed? that's part of that statistic O.o
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1204 2013-05-01 09:40:28 <jgm> True, as always it comes back to the question underlying the statistics
1205 2013-05-01 09:40:42 <jgm> I was wondering how many people stick to the 'new address for each transaction' recommendation
1206 2013-05-01 09:41:30 <Luke-Jr> jgm: IIRC wumpus plans to redesign the interface to encourage that more
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1213 2013-05-01 09:54:47 <syskk> regarding transaction fees… is it cheaper to send 100 BTCs in one transaction or 100 BTCs in 100 transactions?
1214 2013-05-01 09:55:41 <syskk> is the transaction fee proportional to the the amount of bitcoin or is it a flat flee?
1215 2013-05-01 09:55:53 <jgm> syskk: the former, although it does depend on what you mean by 'send'.  Cost is related to the size of the transaction, which is in turn related to the number of inputs and outputs (with some fixed overhead per transaction).
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1217 2013-05-01 09:56:26 <syskk> ok
1218 2013-05-01 09:56:44 <syskk> could 2 transactions of the same amount of bitcoins have a different transaction fee for example?
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1221 2013-05-01 09:57:50 <jgm> Well transaction fee is what you want it to be
1222 2013-05-01 09:58:04 <jgm> You offer a fee, the miners decide if they want to include your transaction and take the fee
1223 2013-05-01 09:58:16 <syskk> ok
1224 2013-05-01 09:59:01 <jgm> But yes if you have one transaction with a 100BTC input and a 100BTC output the transaction fee will be less than one with 100 1BTC inputs and 100 1BTC outputs
1225 2013-05-01 09:59:07 <syskk> so you could theoretically wait to fiind a block and pay 0 fee?
1226 2013-05-01 09:59:42 <jgm> Lots of transactions still go through with 0 fee.  Look at the latest block: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000011d536d8a672c2a36e9db50012616ec55ac7a9989cad3b4d966
1227 2013-05-01 09:59:59 <sivu> happy labour day
1228 2013-05-01 10:00:39 <syskk> when you say size of the transaction you mean the size in bytes it will take in the blockchain , not the amount of bitcoins, right?
1229 2013-05-01 10:00:45 <jgm> sivu: surely labour day doesn't exist?  It's either labor day or "those yanks on holiday again" day
1230 2013-05-01 10:01:15 <jgm> syskk: Yep.
1231 2013-05-01 10:01:17 <sivu> jgm: may day sounds so stupid
1232 2013-05-01 10:01:44 <syskk> jgm: why the fee should be higher for larger transactions? is it because there is a maximum size to blocks?
1233 2013-05-01 10:01:54 hnz has joined
1234 2013-05-01 10:01:55 <syskk> and miners want to optimize their profit?
1235 2013-05-01 10:02:05 <jgm> sivu: call it Beltane then
1236 2013-05-01 10:02:21 <jgm> syskk: Yes, basically
1237 2013-05-01 10:03:10 <syskk> in practice, larger transactions (in BTC) have higher fee because they typically require more inputs?
1238 2013-05-01 10:03:14 <syskk> would it be correct to say that?
1239 2013-05-01 10:03:23 <sivu> jgm, it's vappu in here.
1240 2013-05-01 10:04:04 * lupine wonders if bitcoins will start to get different values depending on transaction composition once transaction fees skyrocket
1241 2013-05-01 10:04:40 <jgm> Transaction fees are unlikely to skyrocket, more likely they will fall as volume increases (and perhaps as block size goes up)
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1244 2013-05-01 10:05:16 <jgm> However it does make each coin worth a fixed value less than its face value, if you will.
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1247 2013-05-01 10:08:26 <jgm> Sorry, s/volume/value/
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1261 2013-05-01 10:23:17 <warren> Anyone with access to the Foundation forum awake?  I would like to read the text of particular discussion as research for my paper, but the forum currently doesn't allow new registrations so I am unable to read it.
1262 2013-05-01 10:23:50 <warren> I would prefer to not guess as to the contents of that discussion.
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1269 2013-05-01 10:34:25 <syskk> ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run on-target -u root apt-get update > var/install.log 2>&1 (RuntimeError)
1270 2013-05-01 10:34:32 <syskk> any idea what might be the problem?
1271 2013-05-01 10:35:19 <syskk> W: Failed to fetch http://10.0.2.2:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  500  Connection timeout
1272 2013-05-01 10:35:20 <syskk> oops
1273 2013-05-01 10:38:01 <syskk> well problem fixed itself
1274 2013-05-01 10:38:07 <syskk> i think my connection is too shitty
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1287 2013-05-01 11:08:20 <jgm> Are transactions with 0-value outputs considered valid?  For example, tx 2adabc7e53f681020cbc61a5e81d39000f0c191bec0b4035d9f5eb9f6e15058d
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1289 2013-05-01 11:13:21 <syskk> sipa: will i break anything if i try to use another apt cacher?
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1295 2013-05-01 11:27:10 <volante> what happens if i send 3 quick transactions in a row, but each transaction is spending the change outputs of the previous one?  so the 2nd 2 transactions are using outputs that aren't confirmed yet.  will those transactions still be propogated through the network?
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1300 2013-05-01 11:38:51 <nizeguy> hi folks, i'm very frustated with paypal api, is there an identical service that accepts credit cards and converts directly to bitcoin ?
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1304 2013-05-01 11:43:27 <intrd> anyone can help-me with this problem at Eloipool http://pastebin.com/7wPcsQmA
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1379 2013-05-01 13:08:47 <Azelphur__> Hello all! Is there any manual to understand bitcoin client code?
1380 2013-05-01 13:08:53 <Azelphur__> *source code
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1384 2013-05-01 13:15:23 <ThomasV> does bitcoin-qt display unconfirmed transactions that have unconfirmed inputs?
1385 2013-05-01 13:17:56 <Alamo777> ThomasV, how i can get the task from bitcoin client to begin mining it? is there a command so i could ask for sha-256 stiring to bruteforce?
1386 2013-05-01 13:18:26 <ThomasV> no
1387 2013-05-01 13:18:55 bibbybob has joined
1388 2013-05-01 13:18:56 <ThomasV> oh, you mean getwork, yes
1389 2013-05-01 13:19:07 <ThomasV> try "help getwork"
1390 2013-05-01 13:20:06 <Alamo777> ThomasV, ok thanks will try help getwork, thank you very much
1391 2013-05-01 13:21:36 <volante> i've got a bit of a problem.   i have addresses in my wallet which have unspent outputs (i can see on blockchain.info and these addresses have coins), but bitcoin-qt shows my balance as 0.00BTC and shows no transactions.  my client is fully in sync
1392 2013-05-01 13:22:21 <ThomasV> volante: which address?
1393 2013-05-01 13:23:06 <volante> ThomasV: 13dtKEgwvWzkWEromUtPYJyJdgTwYk6e8S
1394 2013-05-01 13:23:10 Tritonio has joined
1395 2013-05-01 13:23:40 <volante> i thought it was cos i would need to wait 6 blocks, but i waited, and still nothing
1396 2013-05-01 13:23:55 <volante> in my other wallet that i sent it from, it shows that it sent and is confirmed
1397 2013-05-01 13:24:44 <ThomasV> does bitcoin-qt display the correct blockchain height ?
1398 2013-05-01 13:24:50 <volante> yep
1399 2013-05-01 13:25:09 <volante> last block 234052 6 minutes ago
1400 2013-05-01 13:25:37 <ThomasV> idk, maybe you need to rescan
1401 2013-05-01 13:25:38 <volante> im using the same bitcoin-qt installation with my other wallets (just closing, replacing wallet.dat, re-starting)
1402 2013-05-01 13:25:51 <volante> how do i rescan?
1403 2013-05-01 13:26:00 <ThomasV> there's an option
1404 2013-05-01 13:26:15 <ThomasV> (I never used it)
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1406 2013-05-01 13:26:26 <volante> btw this wallet wasn't online when the transaction was sent.  i only loaded the wallet when the transaction already had 1 confirmation
1407 2013-05-01 13:26:39 * jgarzik umi zoomis
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1409 2013-05-01 13:27:40 <ThomasV> jgarzik: does bitcoin-qt display unconfirmed transactions that have unconfirmed inputs?
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1415 2013-05-01 13:33:02 <volante> ThomasV: ok i launched with the -rescan option.   cpu is currently hammering away doing the rescan.  *fingers crossed*
1416 2013-05-01 13:33:49 czaanja has joined
1417 2013-05-01 13:35:02 <volante> oh thank god.  it worked!
1418 2013-05-01 13:35:15 <volante> legendary.  thanks ThomasV
1419 2013-05-01 13:35:43 <sipa> may i ask what you did with the wallet
1420 2013-05-01 13:35:56 <sipa> this shouldn't happen in the first place
1421 2013-05-01 13:36:55 oldskip has left ()
1422 2013-05-01 13:37:02 <ThomasV> hey, sipa; question: does bitcoin-qt display unconfirmed transactions that have unconfirmed inputs?
1423 2013-05-01 13:37:15 <sipa> yes
1424 2013-05-01 13:37:32 <sipa> wait, it depends
1425 2013-05-01 13:37:46 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1426 2013-05-01 13:37:48 <ThomasV> incoming
1427 2013-05-01 13:37:51 Thepok has joined
1428 2013-05-01 13:38:13 <volante> so i had some coins in my wallet.dat, and another file savings-wallet.dat which was empty.  i then sent 3 transactions to 3 different savings wallet addresses (i believe the last 2 of these 3 transactions might have contained unconfirmed change inputs).  in the next block, 2 of the 3 transactions got confirmed.  then...
1429 2013-05-01 13:38:14 <sipa> if you have them in your wallet (because you created them, or because they were there and you reset your chain), yes
1430 2013-05-01 13:38:44 <volante> then i exited bitcoin-qt, replaced wallet.dat with my savings wallet, and loaded it up.  the balance showed 0.00BTC and no transactions, even though it  was in sync.
1431 2013-05-01 13:39:16 <sipa> for entering the wallet, a transaction needs to be in a block or in the mempool
1432 2013-05-01 13:39:16 <ThomasV> sipa: I mean transactions not created by the wallet, incoming transactions
1433 2013-05-01 13:39:50 <sipa> to enter the memory pool, a transaction must not be an orphan (in the sense of having no parents)
1434 2013-05-01 13:40:08 <sipa> so it is possible to have a chain of unconfirmed transactions enter the mempool
1435 2013-05-01 13:40:25 <sipa> but if obe link is missing, all others won't enter either
1436 2013-05-01 13:40:30 <sipa> *a
1437 2013-05-01 13:40:56 <sipa> volante: with which version did you create this savings wallet?
1438 2013-05-01 13:41:13 <volante> v0.8.1-beta
1439 2013-05-01 13:41:18 <volante> same version i've been using all along
1440 2013-05-01 13:41:23 <sipa> hmm
1441 2013-05-01 13:41:31 <ThomasV> sipa: so, if I understand correctly, bitcoin-qt displays exactly what's in the mempool of bitcoind; there's no difference between them, right?
1442 2013-05-01 13:42:23 <sipa> ThomasV: entering the mempool means you get checked for affecting the wallet
1443 2013-05-01 13:42:36 <sipa> they don't stay synced
1444 2013-05-01 13:43:02 <ThomasV> synced?
1445 2013-05-01 13:43:21 <sipa> once a transaction enters the wallet, it stays there
1446 2013-05-01 13:43:33 <sipa> even if it's gone from the mempool
1447 2013-05-01 13:43:38 <volante> sipa: would the rescan alter my wallet.dat file (ie. i should back it up again) or does it only effect other data?
1448 2013-05-01 13:43:56 <sipa> volante: it affects the wallet
1449 2013-05-01 13:45:14 <volante> sipa: right.  could that be the reason then?  cos i had a different wallet loaded when i received the block that contained the confirmations.  then i closed bitcoin-qt, replaced wallet.dat, and opened and it showed 0 balance.  does it only trigger the wallet scan when its receiving new blocks for the first time?
1450 2013-05-01 13:45:42 n1c has joined
1451 2013-05-01 13:46:44 <ThomasV> sipa: wouldn'it make sense to sync mempool and wallet?
1452 2013-05-01 13:47:09 n1c has left ()
1453 2013-05-01 13:47:16 * jgarzik stares suspiciously at EclipseMC, and their coinbase-only block.  Two minutes after the preceding block, but surely you can collect a few transactions in that span of time.
1454 2013-05-01 13:47:22 <sipa> ThomasV: heh?
1455 2013-05-01 13:47:28 <jgarzik> ThomasV: huh?
1456 2013-05-01 13:48:26 <ThomasV> if a tx isn't anymore in the mempool and does not get confirmed, shouldn't it be removed from wallet?
1457 2013-05-01 13:48:52 <sipa> what if you jist restarted the client?
1458 2013-05-01 13:49:03 <SirDefaced> Is there a guide for building the windows binary in linux?
1459 2013-05-01 13:49:13 <SirDefaced> for QT
1460 2013-05-01 13:49:23 <ThomasV> sipa: it's just a question, I don't use bitcoin-qt
1461 2013-05-01 13:49:30 <sipa> there is certainly need for a more intelkigent wallet, which can invalidate transactions that don't confirm or are double spends
1462 2013-05-01 13:49:39 <sipa> but that isn't implemented right now
1463 2013-05-01 13:50:09 <sipa> SirDefaced: someone recently posted a howto in the dev section of bitcointalk
1464 2013-05-01 13:50:15 <SirDefaced> sipa ty good sir
1465 2013-05-01 13:50:28 <volante> sipa: am i asking for trouble by swapping in different wallet.dat's?  is that actually a supported way to use bitcoin-qt?
1466 2013-05-01 13:50:28 <sipa> ah, that was for building in windows
1467 2013-05-01 13:50:41 <sipa> volante: yes, it shod work
1468 2013-05-01 13:50:57 <SirDefaced> hey i can build in windows too :D
1469 2013-05-01 13:51:01 <sipa> volante: but i regularly see people saying it doesn't work
1470 2013-05-01 13:51:27 <volante> sipa: im happy to try to reduce this to a repeatable test case using testnet if that would help
1471 2013-05-01 13:52:01 <volante> so long as i know where to post the bug report to
1472 2013-05-01 13:53:52 <sipa> volante: when you made the savings wallet backup, were the coins in there already?
1473 2013-05-01 13:54:17 <volante> nope, it was empty, and i generated it offline (no blocks sycned)
1474 2013-05-01 13:55:00 <sipa> none at all?
1475 2013-05-01 13:55:09 <sipa> perhaps that explains
1476 2013-05-01 13:55:17 <volante> yeah.  this client had never gone online
1477 2013-05-01 13:55:25 <volante> i just used it to make a fresh wallet.dat
1478 2013-05-01 13:55:46 <sipa> as that would mean no bestblock record is written to the file
1479 2013-05-01 13:56:13 <sipa> hmm, should be an easy fix
1480 2013-05-01 13:56:24 <sipa> can you build from source?
1481 2013-05-01 13:56:49 whiterabbit has joined
1482 2013-05-01 13:57:00 <volante> i can't at the moment because i tried following the osx instructions with qtcreator, but it has fatal build errors and i haven't been able to get past them
1483 2013-05-01 13:57:13 <sipa> ok
1484 2013-05-01 13:58:12 <volante> would a fix mean that my wallet file would show a correct balance without the rescan, or would it only fix newly generated offline wallet.dats?
1485 2013-05-01 13:58:38 <volante> ive gone to great lengths to back up this wallet.dat file, so im hoping i dont need to update my backups
1486 2013-05-01 13:58:52 <volante> (althoug i suppose i could just run the rescan again in future?)
1487 2013-05-01 13:58:53 <SirDefaced> Sipa that guide seems to reference the DEPS link that is broken :/
1488 2013-05-01 13:59:39 <ThomasV> volante: you need to update your backup from time to time, if you use bitcoin-qt
1489 2013-05-01 14:00:07 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1490 2013-05-01 14:00:08 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
1491 2013-05-01 14:00:42 <volante> i was planning on this wallet being one that i never withdraw from, so in theory i should only need one backup for when i want to withdraw from it
1492 2013-05-01 14:01:19 <phantomcircuit> volante, confirm that the transactions actually happened through blockchain.info
1493 2013-05-01 14:01:52 <sipa> volante: it would just mean that tbe rescan happens automatically
1494 2013-05-01 14:02:27 <volante> phantomcircuit: im all good now - the rescan fixed my wallet
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1501 2013-05-01 14:09:49 <vrs> https://ramcloud.stanford.edu/wiki/download/attachments/11370504/raft.pdf is this relevant to bitcoin?
1502 2013-05-01 14:10:10 <vrs> "In Search of an Understandable Consensus Algorithm" Diego Ongaro and John Ousterhout, Stanford University
1503 2013-05-01 14:11:21 <sipa> jgarzik: i suggested 2016 based on data, see the graph
1504 2013-05-01 14:11:45 <sipa> jgarzik: there is hardly any difference in download frequency after 1 month
1505 2013-05-01 14:12:02 <sipa> jgarzik: and only a very slight one after 2 weeks
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1507 2013-05-01 14:12:32 hsmiths has joined
1508 2013-05-01 14:13:00 <sipa> also, amiller is working on merkleized utxo trees, but for now i consider that future unicorn land, not something to consider for production
1509 2013-05-01 14:13:44 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1510 2013-05-01 14:14:54 Cylta has joined
1511 2013-05-01 14:16:06 <Cylta> hi. I've sent a transaction when my wallet was frozen at wrong block. So, now this transaction is still in my wallet's history, but it does not exist in blockchain and recipient did not get it. How I can remove this transaction from my wallet to send it again?
1512 2013-05-01 14:16:13 paraipan has joined
1513 2013-05-01 14:16:54 <helo> pywallet can do that
1514 2013-05-01 14:17:00 bennalls has joined
1515 2013-05-01 14:17:01 <Cylta> is there any command "remove this TXID from wallet history"?
1516 2013-05-01 14:17:09 <Cylta> I'm in satoshi wallet
1517 2013-05-01 14:17:17 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1518 2013-05-01 14:17:20 <jgarzik> sipa: I don't think we need merkle-ized utxo trees to get a stable, hashable serialization of UTXO
1519 2013-05-01 14:17:32 <helo> pywallet is a tool that manipulates reference client wallets
1520 2013-05-01 14:17:39 <helo> (satoshi wallets)
1521 2013-05-01 14:18:02 <Cylta> helo: ok, thanks, will try it
1522 2013-05-01 14:18:32 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1523 2013-05-01 14:18:40 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm?
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1527 2013-05-01 14:19:02 <jgarzik> sipa: for snapshotting UTXO
1528 2013-05-01 14:19:26 <sipa> oh, you don't mean committing to coinbase?
1529 2013-05-01 14:19:29 <sipa> "meh"
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1532 2013-05-01 14:20:22 <sipa> jgarzik: the current code has sort of an implicit defined serialization format, used for computing the UTXO set's size
1533 2013-05-01 14:20:41 Haifisch has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1534 2013-05-01 14:20:46 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, not talking about coinbase at all
1535 2013-05-01 14:20:47 <sipa> see the gettxoutsetinfo RPC
1536 2013-05-01 14:21:14 <sipa> it doesn't actually serialize anything, but just counts the data size it would
1537 2013-05-01 14:21:34 <jgarzik> sipa: IMO in the future, most validating nodes will just carry UTXO snapshot + blocks since then
1538 2013-05-01 14:22:14 <sipa> where do you get the UTXO snapshot?
1539 2013-05-01 14:22:21 _ps has quit (Client Quit)
1540 2013-05-01 14:22:44 <jgarzik> sipa: depends on what you're asking
1541 2013-05-01 14:23:10 _ps has joined
1542 2013-05-01 14:23:12 <sipa> what the current client uses is an (indexed) UTXO state + undo data to roll back to previous blocks
1543 2013-05-01 14:23:21 <jgarzik> sipa: Generate it at a defined interval, e.g. every 6 diff adjustment periods.  Or even every diff adjustment period.  It's not overly important, as long as its commonly agreed.
1544 2013-05-01 14:23:37 <jgarzik> sipa: if by "get" you mean download, just download from any P2P node that can generate the UTXO
1545 2013-05-01 14:23:44 <sipa> NAK
1546 2013-05-01 14:23:54 <sipa> there's no way to do that in an authenticated way
1547 2013-05-01 14:24:02 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1548 2013-05-01 14:24:10 <sipa> so it would mean trusting your peers about history
1549 2013-05-01 14:24:17 <sipa> which you don't get to see
1550 2013-05-01 14:24:31 Cylta has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1551 2013-05-01 14:24:40 ashman has joined
1552 2013-05-01 14:25:58 <sipa> ... if every N blocks, that UTXO hash would be committed to (and verified by) miners... that's something else
1553 2013-05-01 14:26:02 <jgarzik> True, you do need coinbase stamping.  I forgot why that was important.
1554 2013-05-01 14:26:10 <jgarzik> then headers + snapshot + last blocks
1555 2013-05-01 14:26:35 <sipa> with coinbase commitment, you mean?
1556 2013-05-01 14:26:52 <jgarzik> yes
1557 2013-05-01 14:27:00 <sipa> in that case, sure
1558 2013-05-01 14:27:53 <sipa> but it remains to be seen if there's a computationally efficient enough way to do that without burdening full nodes massively
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1565 2013-05-01 14:33:53 <jgarzik> sipa: That's why I think it should only be done once per diff adjustment period, not every block
1566 2013-05-01 14:34:20 <jgarzik> it is certainly expensive to crawl hundreds of megabytes
1567 2013-05-01 14:35:07 Zero9 has joined
1568 2013-05-01 14:36:32 <sipa> well, with a merkleized utxo set tree you don't need to crawl hundreds of megabytes, just read the top entry
1569 2013-05-01 14:37:01 <JackStorm> jgarzik: or every Xmeg of new TX history  (if you are talking about TX rollups to lower inital bootstrap time)
1570 2013-05-01 14:37:20 <sipa> but yes, perhaps is a once-per-2016 blocks linear hash
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1572 2013-05-01 14:40:02 <jgarzik> sipa: once-per-2016 attempts to balance expensive cost of computation and validation of the linear
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1574 2013-05-01 14:41:14 <sipa> also, you'll probably want this UTXO state hash to be of the previous block's state, or even older
1575 2013-05-01 14:41:41 <sipa> as otherwise you'd need to recompute the entire hash for every tx you change in a block (while mining)
1576 2013-05-01 14:43:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: if the hashes are stored along side it, that isn't a major burden. Otherwise you pratically have to do a full recalc, even of the parts that haven't changed.
1577 2013-05-01 14:45:55 <gmaxwell> you could commit to the prior state not the following state, to move the updates out of the txn selection loop.
1578 2013-05-01 14:46:05 testnode9 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1579 2013-05-01 14:46:13 <gmaxwell> This sort of stuff is will be easier to answer with implementations.
1580 2013-05-01 14:47:26 _ps has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1581 2013-05-01 14:47:53 <gmaxwell> But I do think the utxo tree stuff is mostly seperate from pruning. Pruning is about reducing storage, potentially at the expense of network "brittleness" (though possibly, in favor of less brittleness in practice if the node count is really storage bound)... committed utxo is about reducing bandwidth at the expense of security.
1582 2013-05-01 14:48:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: We do need to get all these leveldb corruption issues worked out before pruning is exposed to the user, since you cant just reindex and move on.
1583 2013-05-01 14:48:43 testnode9 has joined
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1587 2013-05-01 14:49:56 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
1588 2013-05-01 14:52:25 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: It would be nice to initialize a new validating node with UTXO snapshot + latest blocks, rather than IBD from archive node.
1589 2013-05-01 14:52:44 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Hopefully reach a steady-state download size.
1590 2013-05-01 14:53:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: (would have to download headers as just discussed, certainly)
1591 2013-05-01 14:54:06 <sipa> jgarzik: well, that's a fundamental break from the past regarding security assumptions
1592 2013-05-01 14:54:42 <sipa> right now, it's impossible for a full node to accept a chain which for example doesn't honor inflation limits
1593 2013-05-01 14:54:49 vimanu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1594 2013-05-01 14:55:17 <sipa> in the best case, with UTXO state committed to coinbases, that gets reduced to SPV-level trust in your peers about the past
1595 2013-05-01 14:55:50 <gmaxwell> In any case, it's a seperate matter technically (requires this committed, normative state, and a soft fork to require committing it), and in what it delivers (startup and bandwidth reductions instead of storage reductions— it likely will increase storage somewhat).
1596 2013-05-01 14:56:04 <jgarzik> sipa: Inflation limits?  It seems like that can still be calculated accurately?
1597 2013-05-01 14:56:44 <sipa> you can calculate an upper bound on non-provably-destroyed UTXOs
1598 2013-05-01 14:57:28 Belxjander has joined
1599 2013-05-01 14:57:38 <sipa>     "hash_serialized" : "992d662399b2a4b8fd6bbdc474ef431cee8875f17c72342c1319670655b50413"
1600 2013-05-01 14:57:57 <sipa> UTXO state hash at block 000000000000001fdce25ec36397cfd8d3fd1e44c271f97b8fe319c29c90be92
1601 2013-05-01 14:58:22 <gmaxwell> Even if you sum the utxo set, you can inflate by taking dead/destroyed coins— more significant as we get a larger amount of them. (and the utxo must be sum-committed too, if you just want to be able to incremental query it while being confident of its sum)
1602 2013-05-01 14:58:29 <jgarzik> sipa: hmmm -- are you contemplating pruning UTXO of transactions that are provably destroyed, yet have non-zero nValue?
1603 2013-05-01 14:58:56 <sipa> jgarzik: absolutely
1604 2013-05-01 14:59:25 <gmaxwell> otherwise you're stuck carrying them forever.
1605 2013-05-01 14:59:33 lolcookie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1607 2013-05-01 14:59:52 <gmaxwell> (doubly so once they are in this normative hash thing— right now you can already forget them)
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1617 2013-05-01 15:14:06 <sipa> gmaxwell, jgarzik: i pushed a branch 'utxostate' to my github repo, which adds a UTXO state hash to gettxoutsetinfo
1618 2013-05-01 15:14:28 <sipa> it may be useful to compare two nodes
1619 2013-05-01 15:14:48 Nash has joined
1620 2013-05-01 15:15:12 <gmaxwell> seralized in order of txid:vout?
1621 2013-05-01 15:15:39 <jgarzik> sipa: neat
1622 2013-05-01 15:16:37 <sipa> the serialized format is: <blockhash> [<txid> [<vout+1> <txout>] <0>]
1623 2013-05-01 15:16:55 denisx has joined
1624 2013-05-01 15:16:59 <sipa> in lexicographic order of txid, serialized as bytes
1625 2013-05-01 15:17:36 <sipa> if anyone wants to try... i hope we get the same result :D
1626 2013-05-01 15:18:11 <sipa> oh, there's also a few tx metadata fields (coinbase, height, version)
1627 2013-05-01 15:18:49 <sipa> the serialized format is: <blockhash> [<txid> <txversion> <coinbase ? 'c' : 'n'> <height> [<vout+1> <txout>] <0>]
1628 2013-05-01 15:19:07 <gmaxwell> no sum-value while you're at it?
1629 2013-05-01 15:19:16 <sipa> hmm?
1630 2013-05-01 15:19:27 <sipa> oh, sum of all unspent coins?
1631 2013-05-01 15:19:36 canoon has joined
1632 2013-05-01 15:19:41 <michagogo> "provably destroyed"
1633 2013-05-01 15:19:41 <michagogo> Does that mean anything other than transactions with OP_RETURN as their script?
1634 2013-05-01 15:19:43 triciam has joined
1635 2013-05-01 15:19:45 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: Ive been talking to the guys in #rust on mozilla's network
1636 2013-05-01 15:19:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: yes.
1637 2013-05-01 15:19:51 <michagogo> (in [17:35:40] <@jgarzik> sipa: hmmm -- are you contemplating pruning UTXO of transactions that are provably destroyed, yet have non-zero nValue? )
1638 2013-05-01 15:19:53 <gmaxwell> michagogo: maybe.
1639 2013-05-01 15:20:05 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I havent started learning rust yet, but I think that may be the language Ive been looking for
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1647 2013-05-01 15:26:07 <gmaxwell>     "hash_serialized" : "0daac2800d0a77375386e65f8fb7a71eebc8c6ee3fe5ab2f85174270992031e3"
1648 2013-05-01 15:26:16 ps is now known as Guest36109
1649 2013-05-01 15:26:17 * gmaxwell waits for sipa to freak
1650 2013-05-01 15:26:22 <sipa> haha
1651 2013-05-01 15:26:27 <sipa> i changed the format in between :p
1652 2013-05-01 15:26:37 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1653 2013-05-01 15:27:00 <gmaxwell> this node is behind and unlikely to catch up before I have to run. :)
1654 2013-05-01 15:27:02 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,blocks
1655 2013-05-01 15:27:02 <gribble> 234069
1656 2013-05-01 15:27:19 <sipa> haha ok
1657 2013-05-01 15:27:24 <gmaxwell> oh it caught up
1658 2013-05-01 15:27:27 <gmaxwell>     "hash_serialized" : "1c0ecda3a7f7e48c7ba2b016517c623640471adf78f1478dcca96177a9411b6d"
1659 2013-05-01 15:27:40 <sipa>    "txouts" : 5114093,
1660 2013-05-01 15:27:40 <sipa>     "bytes_serialized" : 186785077,
1661 2013-05-01 15:27:40 <sipa>     "hash_serialized" : "1c0ecda3a7f7e48c7ba2b016517c623640471adf78f1478dcca96177a9411b6d"
1662 2013-05-01 15:27:59 <gmaxwell> tada
1663 2013-05-01 15:28:21 nus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1664 2013-05-01 15:28:25 <sipa> damn, now i imagine gmaxwell with a WALL-E voice
1665 2013-05-01 15:28:27 <jgarzik> cheap to calc and verify ++
1666 2013-05-01 15:29:17 <jgarzik> sipa, gmaxwell: what is the wall clock time to calculate that hash?
1667 2013-05-01 15:29:46 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1668 2013-05-01 15:29:59 <sipa> sec, rebuilding with total_amount field added
1669 2013-05-01 15:30:21 jrra has joined
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1671 2013-05-01 15:31:39 <sipa> 11101589.80381183
1672 2013-05-01 15:31:43 <sipa> is that possible?
1673 2013-05-01 15:31:57 <sipa> i'd expect a number very slightly below a multiple of 25
1674 2013-05-01 15:32:44 <sipa> ;;calc 50*210000 + ([blocks]-210000)*25
1675 2013-05-01 15:32:45 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
1676 2013-05-01 15:32:52 <sipa> ;;calc 50*210000 + ([bc,blocks]-210000)*25
1677 2013-05-01 15:32:53 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
1678 2013-05-01 15:33:03 <sipa> jgarzik: 20s on my VPS
1679 2013-05-01 15:33:26 <sipa> which has slow I/O, and this operation bypasses most caches (it runs directly by iterating over the leveldb database)
1680 2013-05-01 15:33:47 <jgarzik> Mindly painful, but IMO OK for once-diff-period
1681 2013-05-01 15:33:50 <jgarzik> *Mildly
1682 2013-05-01 15:34:28 <jgarzik> And there are a few tricks you could do to warm the cache in the prior block, for miners
1683 2013-05-01 15:34:47 <Cylta> how to delete single transaction using pywallet? It don't want to delete it when I'm entering TXID. should I just delete all transaction and wait untill my client will re-download them?...
1684 2013-05-01 15:35:09 <sipa> Cylta: you can run with -salvagewallet if your wallet isn't encrypted
1685 2013-05-01 15:35:17 <Cylta> it is
1686 2013-05-01 15:35:20 <sipa> which will wipe all transactions and rescan from scratch
1687 2013-05-01 15:35:33 <sipa> there's a bug with salvagewallet on encrypted wallets, unfortunatelt
1688 2013-05-01 15:35:44 <Cylta> hmm
1689 2013-05-01 15:35:53 <Cylta> can pywallet work with encrypted wallet?
1690 2013-05-01 15:35:58 <sipa> no idea
1691 2013-05-01 15:36:00 <sipa> ;;blocks
1692 2013-05-01 15:36:02 <gribble> 234069
1693 2013-05-01 15:36:07 <Cylta> looks like it can obtain data (like all transactions, including my private keys!)
1694 2013-05-01 15:36:30 <sipa> huh, if it is encrypted it shouldn't be able to access your private keys!
1695 2013-05-01 15:36:32 <Cylta> how it's possible? i thought that my wallet is defended...
1696 2013-05-01 15:37:02 <Cylta> addr compressed encrypted_privkey pubkey
1697 2013-05-01 15:37:03 <sipa> ;;calc 210000*50+24069*25
1698 2013-05-01 15:37:03 <gribble> 11101725
1699 2013-05-01 15:37:16 <sipa> ok, encrypted privkey
1700 2013-05-01 15:37:18 <sipa> that's fine
1701 2013-05-01 15:37:19 <Cylta> probably that encrypted priv key will not work before decrypting.
1702 2013-05-01 15:37:25 <sipa> duh :)
1703 2013-05-01 15:37:26 robocoin has joined
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1705 2013-05-01 15:37:26 robocoin has joined
1706 2013-05-01 15:37:30 <Cylta> but still. I expected, that all my data is encrypted...
1707 2013-05-01 15:37:36 <sipa> no, only private keys
1708 2013-05-01 15:37:53 <sipa> encryption protects against theft, not privacy
1709 2013-05-01 15:37:58 <Cylta> I don't want to know, that hackers can link all my addresses =) they should be encrypted too..
1710 2013-05-01 15:38:04 <Cylta> ok.. I get it..
1711 2013-05-01 15:39:22 <sipa> jgarzik, gmaxwell: you know of any blocks that didn't claim all fees?
1712 2013-05-01 15:39:33 <sipa> jgarzik, gmaxwell: or any other way to explain such a large deviation?
1713 2013-05-01 15:39:49 <Belxjander> then an "automated forwarding service" might be a good system to sell as a Service ?
1714 2013-05-01 15:40:09 lolcookie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1715 2013-05-01 15:40:12 <jgarzik> no (but speaking with 10% brain right now, on concall ;p)
1716 2013-05-01 15:40:28 lolcookie has joined
1717 2013-05-01 15:40:30 <sipa> concall?
1718 2013-05-01 15:40:38 <sipa> ah, conference call
1719 2013-05-01 15:43:47 Thepok has joined
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1732 2013-05-01 15:53:50 BTCOxygen is now known as 1!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen|BTCOxygen
1733 2013-05-01 15:54:47 <syskk> i want to kiss someone
1734 2013-05-01 15:54:58 <syskk> i finally was able to build boost using gitian
1735 2013-05-01 15:55:10 <syskk> after 48 hours of trying
1736 2013-05-01 15:55:31 <Diablo-D3> lol boost.
1737 2013-05-01 15:59:18 <syskk> i think it worked
1738 2013-05-01 15:59:20 <syskk> still not sure
1739 2013-05-01 15:59:21 <syskk> haha
1740 2013-05-01 15:59:57 jciri has joined
1741 2013-05-01 16:00:33 <syskk> boost-win32
1742 2013-05-01 16:00:54 fanquake has quit (Quit: fanquake)
1743 2013-05-01 16:00:58 dtfy has joined
1744 2013-05-01 16:02:41 <syskk> sipa: there?
1745 2013-05-01 16:03:11 <syskk> it looks like the script is hung up at + cp boost-win32-1.50.0-gitian2.zip /home/ubuntu/out
1746 2013-05-01 16:03:24 <syskk> how can I check if the build was successful?
1747 2013-05-01 16:04:36 jciri has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1748 2013-05-01 16:05:38 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1749 2013-05-01 16:09:21 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1750 2013-05-01 16:09:33 dtfy has quit (Quit: Bye)
1751 2013-05-01 16:09:39 <syskk> is the zip file supposed to be copied on my host machine?
1752 2013-05-01 16:13:35 sl1982-Desktop has joined
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1760 2013-05-01 16:29:41 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
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1767 2013-05-01 16:35:42 <Cylta> hmmm
1768 2013-05-01 16:35:52 <Cylta> I've deleted all my transactions. How to get them back now? ))
1769 2013-05-01 16:36:10 <Cylta> or I can restore wallet and delete only one specific transaction...
1770 2013-05-01 16:36:27 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1771 2013-05-01 16:36:41 <BlueMatt> -rescan ?
1772 2013-05-01 16:36:53 <gmaxwell> Cylta: rescan will repopulate them. (should do it automagically, depending on how you dropped them)
1773 2013-05-01 16:37:44 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: It's cheap now because its not much data now.
1774 2013-05-01 16:38:10 czaanja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1775 2013-05-01 16:39:04 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
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1778 2013-05-01 16:41:04 Hasimir is now known as Guest38250
1779 2013-05-01 16:41:34 <Cylta> how much time -rescan will take? ~hour or ~day?
1780 2013-05-01 16:43:39 deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1781 2013-05-01 16:43:47 <BlueMatt> depends on your hardware, probably not more than a few hours
1782 2013-05-01 16:44:53 <Cylta> hmmm..
1783 2013-05-01 16:45:04 <Cylta> I do better restore it and delete TRID manually..
1784 2013-05-01 16:45:45 owowo has joined
1785 2013-05-01 16:47:08 <BlueMatt> TRID?
1786 2013-05-01 16:47:27 Elroy has joined
1787 2013-05-01 16:47:58 <syskk> can anyone help with gitian :(
1788 2013-05-01 16:48:34 <BlueMatt> whats broken?
1789 2013-05-01 16:49:02 ericy has joined
1790 2013-05-01 16:49:17 taha has quit (Quit: Iyi aksamlar)
1791 2013-05-01 16:49:19 <syskk> just im not sure i understand something
1792 2013-05-01 16:49:34 alphaguru has quit ()
1793 2013-05-01 16:49:51 <BlueMatt> "Dont ask to ask, just ask" -topic
1794 2013-05-01 16:50:16 <syskk> I ran this command: ./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/boost-win32.yml
1795 2013-05-01 16:50:28 <Cylta> BlueMatt: sorry, i ment transaction ID, TXID?
1796 2013-05-01 16:50:29 <syskk> everything seemed to work and the last output was the last line of the script
1797 2013-05-01 16:50:52 <syskk> cp boost-win32-1.50.0-gitian2.zip $OUTDIR
1798 2013-05-01 16:51:11 <syskk> now, do I need to get boost-win32-1.50.0-gitian2.zip out of the VM?
1799 2013-05-01 16:51:18 <BlueMatt> Cylta: "Tell us what you're trying to do, not how you think you need to do it." -topic
1800 2013-05-01 16:51:25 <syskk> my ultimate goal is to build bitcoin-qt for win32
1801 2013-05-01 16:51:41 <BlueMatt> syskk: it should be available in build/out/...
1802 2013-05-01 16:51:50 <syskk> BlueMatt: in the host machine?
1803 2013-05-01 16:52:00 <BlueMatt> yes
1804 2013-05-01 16:52:11 <syskk> ok
1805 2013-05-01 16:52:17 <BlueMatt> (provided you didnt start bin/gbuild again (the first thing it does is clear build/out)
1806 2013-05-01 16:52:38 <syskk> shit really?
1807 2013-05-01 16:53:07 <syskk> I just ran the second command in the list .. ./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/deps-win32.yml
1808 2013-05-01 16:53:11 <syskk> damn it :(
1809 2013-05-01 16:53:12 <BlueMatt> I think so, see if its there
1810 2013-05-01 16:53:14 <BlueMatt> (it used to)
1811 2013-05-01 16:53:19 <syskk> so I should copy it somewhere else right?
1812 2013-05-01 16:53:25 <syskk> yes.. rebooting my machine now one sec
1813 2013-05-01 16:53:29 <BlueMatt> copy it to inputs/
1814 2013-05-01 16:53:44 mappum has joined
1815 2013-05-01 16:53:49 * BlueMatt gate -> PHL -> ZRH
1816 2013-05-01 16:54:07 <syskk> not there :(
1817 2013-05-01 16:54:12 <syskk> BlueMatt: ok
1818 2013-05-01 16:54:43 GMP has joined
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1820 2013-05-01 16:55:13 <syskk> BlueMatt: it also deletes and copy a fresh vm each time right?
1821 2013-05-01 16:55:35 <syskk> last question: is it normal if the gbuild script doesnt terminate after the last command?
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1832 2013-05-01 17:14:20 <syskk> BlueMatt: it worked, thank you so much
1833 2013-05-01 17:14:29 aoiuasoiud is now known as X-Scale
1834 2013-05-01 17:16:54 <syskk> is there any script to package the win32 bitcoin-qt as an installer?
1835 2013-05-01 17:17:13 <syskk> does it build it as a zip that i dont need to install?
1836 2013-05-01 17:17:39 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1837 2013-05-01 17:17:41 <Cylta>  syskk: yes, just launch it
1838 2013-05-01 17:18:03 <syskk> I'm getting this error now: make: ./wingenminiupnpcstrings: Command not found
1839 2013-05-01 17:18:04 <syskk> in build.log
1840 2013-05-01 17:18:19 <syskk> for ./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/deps-win32.yml
1841 2013-05-01 17:19:27 nospinzyb has joined
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1843 2013-05-01 17:21:02 <sipa> Cylta: -rescan just take a few minutes
1844 2013-05-01 17:21:12 JDuke128 has joined
1845 2013-05-01 17:21:26 <sipa> Cylta: maybe 10 or 20
1846 2013-05-01 17:21:34 <JDuke128> hey , someone have solution to this problem on bitcoinj api ? http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/issues/detail?id=403&thanks=403&ts=1367427396
1847 2013-05-01 17:21:46 <JDuke128> i want to generate address for each invoice but how ?
1848 2013-05-01 17:23:02 Micha has joined
1849 2013-05-01 17:24:09 nus has joined
1850 2013-05-01 17:25:54 <syskk> sipa: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2012/10/10#l4413044 how did you fix the problem?
1851 2013-05-01 17:27:04 Steve132 has joined
1852 2013-05-01 17:27:38 <sipa> syskk: what timestamp am i looking for?
1853 2013-05-01 17:27:43 nus- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1854 2013-05-01 17:28:36 <sipa> syskk: oh, i remember
1855 2013-05-01 17:28:57 <sipa> syskk: run gitian in linux32
1856 2013-05-01 17:29:43 <syskk> sipa: I guess I could put http://www.skypaint.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-deps-0.0.5.zip in my inputs/ directory for now right?
1857 2013-05-01 17:29:48 <syskk> ok
1858 2013-05-01 17:30:07 <sipa> yes
1859 2013-05-01 17:32:26 djoot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1860 2013-05-01 17:32:42 <syskk> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/deps-win32.yml#L6 isn't it supposed to already run in linux32?
1861 2013-05-01 17:32:54 <syskk> or does gbuild take a flag for this?
1862 2013-05-01 17:33:12 <sipa> no, linux32 determines the host environment
1863 2013-05-01 17:33:24 <sipa> that i386 is just what guest image is installed
1864 2013-05-01 17:33:41 djoot has joined
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1867 2013-05-01 17:33:51 <sipa> programs that ask the OS what hardware they're running on still get a 64-bit response with that
1868 2013-05-01 17:34:14 <syskk> sipa: so I have to do everything all over again from linux32 host?
1869 2013-05-01 17:34:23 <muhoo> cat /proc/cpuinfo
1870 2013-05-01 17:34:26 <syskk> ah got it
1871 2013-05-01 17:34:33 <sipa> syskk: just the final build
1872 2013-05-01 17:35:07 hydrogenesis has joined
1873 2013-05-01 17:35:14 <syskk> sipa: what do you mean? do I need to install a 32 bit ubuntu host?
1874 2013-05-01 17:35:37 X-Scale has quit ()
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1876 2013-05-01 17:37:21 <sipa> no
1877 2013-05-01 17:37:34 <sipa> just run linux32 ./bin/gbuild <whatever>
1878 2013-05-01 17:37:46 <sipa> instead of ./bin/gbuild <whatever>
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1881 2013-05-01 17:39:05 LorenzoMoney has joined
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1883 2013-05-01 17:40:03 <syskk> ahhh ok lol
1884 2013-05-01 17:40:17 <syskk> never heard about linux32 before sorry
1885 2013-05-01 17:41:11 <sipa> oh, it's a tool to make a program think it's running on 32-bit hardware
1886 2013-05-01 17:41:30 <syskk> yeah just got that from the man :)
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1895 2013-05-01 17:48:27 <syskk> ./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/qt-win32.yml
1896 2013-05-01 17:48:33 <syskk> --commit bitcoin=HEAD
1897 2013-05-01 17:48:44 alex_fun has joined
1898 2013-05-01 17:48:45 <syskk> does it mean my local file edits wont be compiled?
1899 2013-05-01 17:48:53 <syskk> it will checkout the HEAD and compile?
1900 2013-05-01 17:50:00 <sipa> where would it get your local commits?
1901 2013-05-01 17:50:12 <sipa> it doesn't even know you have a git clone
1902 2013-05-01 17:52:08 <syskk> uh?
1903 2013-05-01 17:52:18 <syskk> ok
1904 2013-05-01 17:52:26 <syskk> so it clones from github?
1905 2013-05-01 17:53:29 alex_fun has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1907 2013-05-01 17:55:01 mE\Ta has joined
1908 2013-05-01 17:55:16 <sipa> yes, it's designed to do deterministic builds
1909 2013-05-01 17:55:20 jtimon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1910 2013-05-01 17:55:25 <syskk> right
1911 2013-05-01 17:55:32 <sipa> it knows the repository, and fetches from there
1912 2013-05-01 17:55:45 LorenzoMoney has left ("Ciao!")
1913 2013-05-01 17:55:46 <sipa> i have a wrapper script around gbuild that makes it use my local repository
1914 2013-05-01 17:56:47 jtimon has joined
1915 2013-05-01 17:57:02 <syskk> i guess I could change "url": "https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git" to "url": "http://10.0.0.2/bitcoin.git"
1916 2013-05-01 17:57:15 <syskk> and open a server on my host that serves my repo
1917 2013-05-01 17:57:16 <syskk> right?
1918 2013-05-01 17:57:21 <sipa> yes
1919 2013-05-01 17:57:24 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|IYeah
1920 2013-05-01 17:57:34 <syskk> just a normal http server will do right?
1921 2013-05-01 17:57:36 <sipa> though it
1922 2013-05-01 17:57:40 <sipa> it
1923 2013-05-01 17:57:54 <sipa> it's easier to just copy the data into gitian's input directory before starting
1924 2013-05-01 17:58:02 <sipa> then it will use that instead of fetching
1925 2013-05-01 17:58:11 intrd has joined
1926 2013-05-01 17:58:13 <syskk> ah
1927 2013-05-01 17:58:29 <syskk> it checks if bitcoin.git is in the inputs directory?
1928 2013-05-01 17:58:58 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1929 2013-05-01 17:59:05 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/bitcoin-build.sh.txt
1930 2013-05-01 17:59:15 <sipa> that's my to-an-end-to-end build script
1931 2013-05-01 17:59:39 intrd has quit (Client Quit)
1932 2013-05-01 18:00:04 <syskk> thx
1933 2013-05-01 18:00:04 <sipa> the directory is called bitcoin, not bitcoin.git
1934 2013-05-01 18:00:18 denisx has joined
1935 2013-05-01 18:00:23 intrd has joined
1936 2013-05-01 18:01:37 <syskk> ok
1937 2013-05-01 18:01:42 JDuke128 has joined
1938 2013-05-01 18:01:55 <JDuke128> hey , someone have solution to this problem on bitcoinj api ? http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/issues/detail?id=403&thanks=403&ts=1367427396
1939 2013-05-01 18:01:58 <JDuke128> i want to generate address for each invoice but how ?
1940 2013-05-01 18:02:16 <syskk> ah https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win32.yml#L16 here right?
1941 2013-05-01 18:02:31 <syskk> so the directory has higher priority than the remote repository?
1942 2013-05-01 18:02:39 amincd has joined
1943 2013-05-01 18:03:40 ProfMac_ has joined
1944 2013-05-01 18:03:42 <intrd> anyone can help me with this Eloipool issue https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158105.msg1993621#msg1993621?
1945 2013-05-01 18:04:01 bennalls has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1946 2013-05-01 18:05:15 <sipa> syskk: if the directory exists, it is used i think
1947 2013-05-01 18:05:16 Dom__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1948 2013-05-01 18:05:41 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1949 2013-05-01 18:06:27 systemParanoid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1950 2013-05-01 18:07:16 da2ce7 has joined
1951 2013-05-01 18:08:03 <phantomcircuit> timestamp for block 234076 is newer than for 234077
1952 2013-05-01 18:09:28 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1953 2013-05-01 18:10:29 seeingidog__ has joined
1954 2013-05-01 18:11:50 Zer07 has joined
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1956 2013-05-01 18:13:31 whiterabbit has joined
1957 2013-05-01 18:13:51 <MC1984_> how much newer
1958 2013-05-01 18:14:08 makomk has joined
1959 2013-05-01 18:14:19 <MC1984_> timestamps are +-2 hours or so?
1960 2013-05-01 18:14:20 ubuntu has joined
1961 2013-05-01 18:14:34 EvilPete_ has joined
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1963 2013-05-01 18:14:43 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|"newer" == more recent?
1964 2013-05-01 18:14:44 ubuntu is now known as Guest65700
1965 2013-05-01 18:14:56 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1966 2013-05-01 18:14:56 <Micha> iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|Guest65700: :-P
1967 2013-05-01 18:14:59 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
1968 2013-05-01 18:15:07 <sipa> phantomcircuit: yes, so?
1969 2013-05-01 18:15:09 sagax__ has joined
1970 2013-05-01 18:15:34 intrd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1972 2013-05-01 18:16:32 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's an anomaly followed by no blocks for 40+ minutes
1973 2013-05-01 18:16:34 Tron- has joined
1974 2013-05-01 18:16:43 <phantomcircuit> i figured it was worth mentioning
1975 2013-05-01 18:16:53 ahf_ is now known as ahf
1976 2013-05-01 18:17:28 <amincd> Is it possible to find a hash that can replace a scriptPubKey without changing the transaction hash?
1977 2013-05-01 18:17:45 intrd has joined
1978 2013-05-01 18:17:55 ielo has joined
1979 2013-05-01 18:17:55 <amincd> or are the odds of doing that astronomically low?
1980 2013-05-01 18:17:58 MaybeJustNothing has joined
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1982 2013-05-01 18:18:46 <sipa> amincd: they are
1983 2013-05-01 18:19:28 graingert has joined
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1987 2013-05-01 18:20:40 <amincd> sipa: thanks
1988 2013-05-01 18:21:22 <sipa> amincd: it is easier however (and timetimes wanted) that txouts can change while not invaliding a signature
1989 2013-05-01 18:21:53 Steve132 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1995 2013-05-01 18:23:47 <tlrobinson> what's the purpose of the double sha hash of the payload in the message header?
1996 2013-05-01 18:24:00 LainZ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1997 2013-05-01 18:24:04 <sipa> it's a checksum to detect corrupted network traffic
1998 2013-05-01 18:24:15 <sipa> the double sha hash there is absolute overkill though
1999 2013-05-01 18:24:20 <tlrobinson> sipa: but TCP is a reliable transport...
2000 2013-05-01 18:24:44 <phantomcircuit> sipa, does the wallet code correctly handle semantically identical but slightly different transactions which are double spends where one of the transactions was generated locally and the other remotely? (the obvious being the same wallet in two places generating a transaction simultaneously)
2001 2013-05-01 18:24:50 <sipa> phantomcircuit: no
2002 2013-05-01 18:25:12 <sipa> the wallet doesn't deal well with double spends at all
2003 2013-05-01 18:25:56 <phantomcircuit> tlrobinson, the checksum used in tcp is not a very strong one actually
2004 2013-05-01 18:26:21 saracen has joined
2005 2013-05-01 18:26:24 <phantomcircuit> however afaict there are effectively no consequence for corrupt network messages
2006 2013-05-01 18:26:26 <sipa> i think satoshi mainly added it to detect bad implementations
2007 2013-05-01 18:26:35 <sipa> of the networking code
2008 2013-05-01 18:26:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, oh that actually does make sense
2009 2013-05-01 18:26:56 <sipa> (and probably added it because he was debugging a bug in the networking code :p)
2010 2013-05-01 18:27:14 <phantomcircuit> yeah i can see how that would help
2011 2013-05-01 18:27:32 <sipa> a simple CRC would be just as good for that
2012 2013-05-01 18:27:37 <phantomcircuit> and sha256(sha256()) being defined as HASH() would make that the easiest to use in the bitcoin code base
2013 2013-05-01 18:27:49 <sipa> indeed
2014 2013-05-01 18:27:50 <phantomcircuit> it's fast enough that it wouldn't much matter in a networking context
2015 2013-05-01 18:28:00 <tlrobinson> ok thnaks
2016 2013-05-01 18:28:07 <sipa> there's no point for using truncated double-sha256 in address checksums either
2017 2013-05-01 18:28:07 _flow_ has joined
2018 2013-05-01 18:28:12 topace has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2019 2013-05-01 18:28:16 <sipa> a CRC would be better in every way
2020 2013-05-01 18:28:24 <sipa> except that it wasn't implemented
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2022 2013-05-01 18:28:41 MobGod has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023 2013-05-01 18:28:49 <Alamo777> guys i am wondering does all bitcoin addresses contain 32 characters?
2024 2013-05-01 18:29:00 <kadoban> Alamo777: no.
2025 2013-05-01 18:29:08 freefox has joined
2026 2013-05-01 18:29:09 <sipa> a bitcoin address encodes a 160-bit public key hash
2027 2013-05-01 18:29:13 <syskk> i think there's a wiki page on detecting bitcoin adresses
2028 2013-05-01 18:29:24 <Alamo777> is there a regexp for that?
2029 2013-05-01 18:29:24 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
2030 2013-05-01 18:29:29 <sipa> and contains a version byte and a 32-bit checksum
2031 2013-05-01 18:29:30 topace has joined
2032 2013-05-01 18:29:36 <sipa> and is then base58 encoded
2033 2013-05-01 18:29:50 <kadoban> Alamo777: not a regexp, but there's an algorithm for checking
2034 2013-05-01 18:29:52 _flow_ has joined
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2036 2013-05-01 18:29:54 <syskk> Alamo777: doubt you can get away with a regex
2037 2013-05-01 18:30:00 aceat64 has joined
2038 2013-05-01 18:30:02 <Alamo777> super thanks!:)
2039 2013-05-01 18:30:12 <phantomcircuit> you could certainly implement it with a regex but i cant imagine it would be optimal
2040 2013-05-01 18:30:23 <phantomcircuit> otoh regex compilers are hilariously optimized so who knows
2041 2013-05-01 18:30:50 <sipa> [1-9A-HJ-NP-Za-km-z]+
2042 2013-05-01 18:31:15 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2043 2013-05-01 18:31:39 <sipa> Alamo777: stay in the channel please
2044 2013-05-01 18:32:00 <Alamo777> ok
2045 2013-05-01 18:33:10 Elroy has quit (Quit: Elroy)
2046 2013-05-01 18:33:16 Hunner has joined
2047 2013-05-01 18:33:21 <syskk> does the inputs/ directory allow symlinks?
2048 2013-05-01 18:33:45 <sipa> maybe
2049 2013-05-01 18:33:49 Hunner has joined
2050 2013-05-01 18:33:57 <sipa> you'll have to try or look at the code :)
2051 2013-05-01 18:34:45 <syskk> nope it doesnt ;)
2052 2013-05-01 18:35:31 <syskk> well at least im not getting a bug now that i copied bitcoin dir instead of symlinking
2053 2013-05-01 18:36:07 brson has joined
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2062 2013-05-01 18:43:02 <syskk> ahhh almost  there :( /home/ubuntu/build/bitcoin/src/leveldb/libmemenv.a: could not read symbols: Archive has no index; run ranlib to add one
2063 2013-05-01 18:43:33 <syskk> I used http://www.skypaint.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-deps-0.0.5.zip
2064 2013-05-01 18:44:33 <sipa> heh
2065 2013-05-01 18:44:58 <syskk> linux32 ?
2066 2013-05-01 18:45:07 knotwork has joined
2067 2013-05-01 18:45:51 <syskk> lets see if that helps ..
2068 2013-05-01 18:46:25 metabyte_ has joined
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2082 2013-05-01 18:57:27 Micha has quit (iPhone!~Michagogo@wikia/Michagogo|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2088 2013-05-01 19:02:26 <topi`> damn, coinabul devoured my 8 btc, but my order is still "processing" after 3 weeks... I consider those coins lost. (noticed some negative feedback about coinabul on reddit)
2089 2013-05-01 19:02:26 freefox has quit (Quit: freefox)
2090 2013-05-01 19:03:04 ngc0202 has joined
2091 2013-05-01 19:03:35 <topi`> some kind of escrow mechanism would be important, to "persuade" overseas companies to actually respect their customers
2092 2013-05-01 19:03:47 Guest13732 is now known as topace
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2100 2013-05-01 19:06:25 ProfMac_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2101 2013-05-01 19:06:35 <syskk> any idea sipa? im so close to being able to build :(
2102 2013-05-01 19:07:00 <sipa> syskk: that's a strange error
2103 2013-05-01 19:07:07 <sipa> for which version do you get that?
2104 2013-05-01 19:07:07 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2105 2013-05-01 19:07:36 <syskk> ahh i think i know why
2106 2013-05-01 19:07:45 <syskk> i compiled on my host machine before
2107 2013-05-01 19:07:52 <syskk> maybe?
2108 2013-05-01 19:08:43 <sipa> you copied the full directory from your host machine?
2109 2013-05-01 19:08:52 <syskk> my bitcoin directory is checked out at v0.8.1
2110 2013-05-01 19:08:52 <sipa> not just the files checked into the repository?
2111 2013-05-01 19:09:04 <sipa> yeah, don't do that
2112 2013-05-01 19:09:06 <syskk> yeah haha
2113 2013-05-01 19:09:14 LainZ has joined
2114 2013-05-01 19:10:08 ThomasV has joined
2115 2013-05-01 19:10:09 <syskk> lets hope it solves my problem
2116 2013-05-01 19:10:31 <topi`> 4~p0
2117 2013-05-01 19:11:41 Micha has joined
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2119 2013-05-01 19:13:55 Ad0` is now known as Ad0
2120 2013-05-01 19:14:36 <Scrat> is there an easier way to get transaction fee from rpc other than querying all vins and vouts?
2121 2013-05-01 19:16:18 ielo has joined
2122 2013-05-01 19:16:18 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2123 2013-05-01 19:16:43 MobGod has joined
2124 2013-05-01 19:16:44 Steve132 has joined
2125 2013-05-01 19:16:45 <sipa> Scrat: for wallet transactions, it's tracked automatically
2126 2013-05-01 19:16:52 <sipa> for others it's simply not known
2127 2013-05-01 19:16:54 <Scrat> or well, vins only
2128 2013-05-01 19:17:02 MobGod has quit (Changing host)
2129 2013-05-01 19:17:02 MobGod has joined
2130 2013-05-01 19:17:05 <Scrat> sipa: where is it ><
2131 2013-05-01 19:17:14 <sipa> ?
2132 2013-05-01 19:17:21 wallet421 has joined
2133 2013-05-01 19:17:28 <sipa> listtransactions for example
2134 2013-05-01 19:17:39 <sipa> (i think)
2135 2013-05-01 19:18:05 <Scrat> neither gettransaction nor getrawtransaction 1 have it
2136 2013-05-01 19:18:25 amincd has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2137 2013-05-01 19:18:36 <sipa> getrawtransaction obviously doesn't, as it doesn't query the wallet but the blockchain
2138 2013-05-01 19:18:38 <Scrat> which is weird because wiki says gettransaction should have it
2139 2013-05-01 19:18:53 <sipa> gettransaction is strange
2140 2013-05-01 19:19:13 JDuke128 has joined
2141 2013-05-01 19:20:13 gfawkes_ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
2142 2013-05-01 19:20:28 <sipa> Scrat: ah, only for outgoing transactions
2143 2013-05-01 19:20:45 <sipa> for incoming ones it's not known either
2144 2013-05-01 19:21:30 <Scrat> if (wtx.IsFromMe())
2145 2013-05-01 19:21:32 <Scrat>         entry.push_back(Pair("fee", ValueFromAmount(nFee)));
2146 2013-05-01 19:21:34 <Scrat> yes
2147 2013-05-01 19:22:53 drl00p has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2148 2013-05-01 19:23:32 AndChat64721 has quit (Quit: Bye)
2149 2013-05-01 19:23:40 <gmaxwell> and even in that case it's wrong in some cases.
2150 2013-05-01 19:23:59 <gmaxwell> e.g. if not all of the inputs are yours... they show up as negative fee. 0_o
2151 2013-05-01 19:24:11 <gmaxwell> (makes sense in the context of the code)
2152 2013-05-01 19:24:17 <sipa> yeah, it requires that all inputs of the transactions are yours, so their amounts are known
2153 2013-05-01 19:24:39 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2154 2013-05-01 19:25:02 ngc0202 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2156 2013-05-01 19:27:17 rbecker is now known as RBecker
2157 2013-05-01 19:28:56 ngc0202 has joined
2158 2013-05-01 19:31:09 rushed has joined
2159 2013-05-01 19:31:55 <syskk> HALLELUJAHHHHH
2160 2013-05-01 19:32:03 <syskk> I compiled bitcoin-qt for Windows
2161 2013-05-01 19:32:07 <syskk> oh god
2162 2013-05-01 19:32:15 <syskk> i need to order some beers to celebrate
2163 2013-05-01 19:34:44 Diapolis has joined
2164 2013-05-01 19:35:04 CaptainBlaze has joined
2165 2013-05-01 19:36:37 Tritonio_ has joined
2166 2013-05-01 19:36:53 <The_Fly> congrats
2167 2013-05-01 19:36:59 <sipa> \o/
2168 2013-05-01 19:37:23 <The_Fly> i think im sick of gdb, going to try kdbg now, and perhaps ddd
2169 2013-05-01 19:37:29 ngc0202 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2170 2013-05-01 19:37:39 <The_Fly> ive tracked down that assertion to ~CCheckQueue() {}
2171 2013-05-01 19:37:53 <The_Fly> *assertion failure
2172 2013-05-01 19:37:55 <sipa> :o
2173 2013-05-01 19:37:56 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2174 2013-05-01 19:38:17 Jamesonwa has joined
2175 2013-05-01 19:38:20 <The_Fly> boost::condition_variable::~condition_variable (this=<optimised out>, __in_chrg=<optimised out>) at /usr/include/boost/thread/pthread/condition_variable_fwd.hpp:46
2176 2013-05-01 19:38:35 <The_Fly> CCheckQueue<CScriptCheck>::~CCheckQueue (this=0xa2dd40, __in_chrg=<optimised out>) at checkqueue.h:150
2177 2013-05-01 19:39:32 Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2178 2013-05-01 19:39:46 <The_Fly> kdbg seems nice
2179 2013-05-01 19:39:51 <sipa> The_Fly: apparently that thread wasn't "included" properly in the thread refactor
2180 2013-05-01 19:40:12 <sipa> i'll file a bug for it so it isn't forgotten, but i think it's easy to fix
2181 2013-05-01 19:40:18 <The_Fly> ah ok
2182 2013-05-01 19:40:24 ngc0202 has joined
2183 2013-05-01 19:40:26 <The_Fly> i dont think i see it on current master
2184 2013-05-01 19:40:39 <sipa> no?
2185 2013-05-01 19:40:45 <sipa> i do, but not frequently
2186 2013-05-01 19:40:48 <The_Fly> not last i checked
2187 2013-05-01 19:40:53 <The_Fly> ah ok, non deterministic maybe?
2188 2013-05-01 19:41:07 <sipa> thread stuff is likely not deterministic, yeah
2189 2013-05-01 19:41:08 <The_Fly> i can recreate reliably on multiwallet
2190 2013-05-01 19:41:14 <sipa> race conditions & stuff
2191 2013-05-01 19:41:23 <The_Fly> 100% of the time, at least with the test_bitcoin binary
2192 2013-05-01 19:42:11 <The_Fly> and i fixed that broken miner_tests problem i had
2193 2013-05-01 19:42:23 <The_Fly> it was calling only LoadBlockIndex and never InitBlockIndex
2194 2013-05-01 19:42:30 <sipa> ha
2195 2013-05-01 19:42:35 <The_Fly> which created a null pointer ref somewhere
2196 2013-05-01 19:42:38 <sipa> yeah
2197 2013-05-01 19:42:46 <The_Fly> i dont see the initblockindex call in master though...
2198 2013-05-01 19:42:54 <The_Fly> test_bitcoin.cpp, the fixture
2199 2013-05-01 19:43:10 <The_Fly> hm, anyway, it gets the test working fine, returns with success
2200 2013-05-01 19:43:40 <The_Fly> now just have that thread complaining about pthread_mutex_destroy assertion failure on condition_variable
2201 2013-05-01 19:43:48 <The_Fly> but atm seems pretty harmless
2202 2013-05-01 19:43:52 <sipa> at shutdown, i suppose?
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2204 2013-05-01 19:45:06 RBecker is now known as rbecker
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2213 2013-05-01 19:47:42 <The_Fly> sipa: yep
2214 2013-05-01 19:47:53 Guest99081 has joined
2215 2013-05-01 19:47:58 <alex3> if I port forward port I get more connections right?
2216 2013-05-01 19:48:01 <The_Fly> stack passes through exit()
2217 2013-05-01 19:48:12 <The_Fly> __libc_start_main etc
2218 2013-05-01 19:48:12 <alex3> but not the rpcport cause its local port talking to port?
2219 2013-05-01 19:48:23 Guest99081 is now known as taha_
2220 2013-05-01 19:48:36 <The_Fly> sipa: so is the destructor of CCheckQueue
2221 2013-05-01 19:48:51 <The_Fly> kdbg is so much nicer than working with gdb
2222 2013-05-01 19:49:01 <sipa> The_Fly: CCheckQueue's thread is simply not properly stopped, i think
2223 2013-05-01 19:49:21 <sipa> alex3: yes, only expose your p2p port (8333 by default)
2224 2013-05-01 19:49:23 gfawkes has joined
2225 2013-05-01 19:49:39 <The_Fly> i took a look through the old multiwallet history and couldn't see anything, but might be coming from init.cpp
2226 2013-05-01 19:49:47 <The_Fly> maybe i broke the shutdown merge
2227 2013-05-01 19:50:06 <The_Fly> a side-by-side comparison with master will help
2228 2013-05-01 19:50:17 <sipa> no, it's just not there
2229 2013-05-01 19:50:20 <sipa> in master
2230 2013-05-01 19:50:31 <The_Fly> oh...
2231 2013-05-01 19:50:32 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2232 2013-05-01 19:50:32 <sipa> perhaps something in multiwallet worsens the situation
2233 2013-05-01 19:50:48 <sipa> but that's not the core issue
2234 2013-05-01 19:51:03 <The_Fly> i went through the merge and the edits were relatively restricted
2235 2013-05-01 19:51:15 <The_Fly> the list of files in the merge is small, 5 or so
2236 2013-05-01 19:51:16 ngc0202 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2237 2013-05-01 19:51:20 <The_Fly> and all fairly trivial to merge
2238 2013-05-01 19:51:28 <The_Fly> but i can look again and see
2239 2013-05-01 19:51:35 BlackPrapor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2240 2013-05-01 19:52:02 BlackPrapor has joined
2241 2013-05-01 19:52:09 <sipa> the whole quit logic in CCheckQueue was simply removed
2242 2013-05-01 19:52:35 <The_Fly> i'll go see where it is being used
2243 2013-05-01 19:52:42 santoscork has quit (Quit: Auto logout …)
2244 2013-05-01 19:52:58 <sipa> hmmm
2245 2013-05-01 19:52:59 <sipa> wait
2246 2013-05-01 19:53:04 santoscork has joined
2247 2013-05-01 19:53:31 <ryan-c> does testnet currently allow nonstandard transactions?
2248 2013-05-01 19:53:33 BlackPrapor has quit (Client Quit)
2249 2013-05-01 19:53:49 <BlueMatt> yes
2250 2013-05-01 19:53:56 BlackPrapor has joined
2251 2013-05-01 19:54:21 ngc0202 has joined
2252 2013-05-01 19:54:21 <The_Fly>     CCheckQueueControl<CScriptCheck> control(fScriptChecks && nScriptCheckThreads ? &scriptcheckqueue : NULL);
2253 2013-05-01 19:54:31 <The_Fly> sipa: is used once there in main.cpp
2254 2013-05-01 19:54:45 <sipa> yes yes
2255 2013-05-01 19:54:57 <The_Fly> CCheckQueueControl has an instance of CCheckQueue
2256 2013-05-01 19:55:02 <The_Fly> <T>
2257 2013-05-01 19:55:03 rafadefine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2258 2013-05-01 19:55:22 <sipa> i know that, i wrote it
2259 2013-05-01 19:55:45 <The_Fly> its not problematic in master, i dont think
2260 2013-05-01 19:56:03 <The_Fly> i ran the test suite and didn't see it there
2261 2013-05-01 19:56:48 <saivann> jgarzik / gmaxwell / Luke-Jr : Sirius vote in favor of removing the press interviewees list, any thoughts?
2262 2013-05-01 19:56:51 <saivann> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181168.msg1996365#msg1996365
2263 2013-05-01 19:57:58 alex3 has left ()
2264 2013-05-01 19:58:32 <BlueMatt> when's the last time sirius was significantly active in bitcoin, aside from running some infrastructure?
2265 2013-05-01 19:59:41 <The_Fly> threadGroup.create_thread(&ThreadScriptCheck);
2266 2013-05-01 19:59:53 <sipa> The_Fly: uhu, that looks goed
2267 2013-05-01 19:59:56 <The_Fly> that's where you're forking those threads right...
2268 2013-05-01 20:00:00 <sipa> and the threadGroup is properly interrupted
2269 2013-05-01 20:00:06 <The_Fly> so they should die on interrupt and join
2270 2013-05-01 20:00:08 <The_Fly> so hmm...
2271 2013-05-01 20:00:17 <saivann> BlueMatt : I don't know, but his ownership on bitcoin.org gives him some authority, from Satoshi himself
2272 2013-05-01 20:00:59 * BlueMatt finds that argument to be equivalent to "the constitution is the word of god and cannot, for any reason, be changed, or even interpreted in a marginally different way than the words on the page"
2273 2013-05-01 20:01:04 <BlueMatt> ie, its rediculous
2274 2013-05-01 20:01:20 gmaxwell has left ()
2275 2013-05-01 20:01:22 <BlueMatt> satoshi has been gone for how long?
2276 2013-05-01 20:01:31 qeb has joined
2277 2013-05-01 20:01:31 qeb has quit (Client Quit)
2278 2013-05-01 20:01:52 <sipa> 2 years and 2 months
2279 2013-05-01 20:01:54 qeb has joined
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2281 2013-05-01 20:02:21 rafadefine has joined
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2283 2013-05-01 20:02:29 <saivann> BlueMatt : It's not about Satoshi, just about the fact that he's effectively owning bitcoin.org
2284 2013-05-01 20:02:33 <saivann> (the domain)
2285 2013-05-01 20:04:17 <midnightmagic> noooooooo
2286 2013-05-01 20:05:22 <BlueMatt> ok, and I appreciate his vote, but I'd say the press contact list is very important given the current press status, and though Im sure satoshi might have argued for more decentralization (and thats, Id assume, where sirius is coming from)
2287 2013-05-01 20:05:38 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2288 2013-05-01 20:05:58 <BlueMatt> I think this is one of those times where a decision has to be made and people will have to live with it
2289 2013-05-01 20:06:08 <midnightmagic> You guys are wasting your time. There is a debate created, and by continuing to engage it you're giving it the weight of your presence.
2290 2013-05-01 20:06:26 <BlueMatt> agreed
2291 2013-05-01 20:06:51 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
2292 2013-05-01 20:07:31 <saivann> I see..
2293 2013-05-01 20:07:36 <midnightmagic> These people are cruel, callous, poisonous. They use slippery rhetorical technique, quote out-of-context, revert to personal attack, create sock puppets.
2294 2013-05-01 20:07:59 <ryan-c> is there a simulator anywhere that can be used to play with bitcoin script?
2295 2013-05-01 20:08:17 <midnightmagic> These people should be engaged once if you are concerned that the image of stomping dissent is bad, and then simply ignored.
2296 2013-05-01 20:09:18 JDuke128 has joined
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2299 2013-05-01 20:10:22 <midnightmagic> I wish I could do something to help deflect the vitriol, or lend you guys some amusement or patience or something, but, watching them work on you guys is giving me a sickening combination of disgust and outrage.
2300 2013-05-01 20:11:04 <sipa> The_Fly: can you try adding a thread::interruption_point(); right before the definition of CCheckQueueControl<CScriptCheck> control(...); and right before if (!control.Wait()) ?
2301 2013-05-01 20:11:20 <midnightmagic> The only thing I think when I read their notes is that it's easier to concentrate on the form of an attack rather than assume it has substance, for people like these.
2302 2013-05-01 20:11:22 <sipa> in CBlock::ConnectBlock() in main.cpp
2303 2013-05-01 20:11:30 <The_Fly> ok will give it a shot
2304 2013-05-01 20:11:52 <The_Fly> (just realised that the test_bitcoin.cpp in master is only doing InitBlockIndex() )
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2307 2013-05-01 20:13:08 <The_Fly> my bad, it had changed somewhere between multiwallet and current head of master
2308 2013-05-01 20:13:09 <sipa> i doubt it will help
2309 2013-05-01 20:13:17 <The_Fly> the interruption point?
2310 2013-05-01 20:13:20 <The_Fly> let's see anyway
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2314 2013-05-01 20:15:18 <saivann> midnightmagic : Don't you think we are in a bad position if sirius is against the list?
2315 2013-05-01 20:16:07 <The_Fly> sipa, that didn't fix it
2316 2013-05-01 20:16:48 <sipa> The_Fly: i guess i'll first need to find a way to reproduce the problem in master
2317 2013-05-01 20:17:00 <sipa> as it may be that there's a bug in multiwallet that's unrealted
2318 2013-05-01 20:17:04 <sipa> *unrelated
2319 2013-05-01 20:17:52 <The_Fly> indeed
2320 2013-05-01 20:18:02 <The_Fly> i'm just building master now to see
2321 2013-05-01 20:18:08 <The_Fly> iirc it is not present
2322 2013-05-01 20:18:32 <The_Fly> i'll have to look at the multiwallet diffs to see what might have caused this
2323 2013-05-01 20:19:07 <midnightmagic> saivann: sirius was lured, and he took the bait.
2324 2013-05-01 20:19:14 <The_Fly> build takes a while on this laptop
2325 2013-05-01 20:19:30 <The_Fly> and i have a nice fast machine sitting in japan :(
2326 2013-05-01 20:19:34 mollison has joined
2327 2013-05-01 20:19:40 reneg has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2328 2013-05-01 20:20:18 <The_Fly> sipa: can confirm it is not present in master
2329 2013-05-01 20:20:41 <midnightmagic> saivann: Unless he can be convinced that he is in fact being baited by some slippery douchebags, there's little that can be done. Still, your (our) best course of action in terms of moving forward is identical. Giving in to venom and vitriol only encourages them to use personal attack and social influence rhetoric *more* in the future.
2330 2013-05-01 20:21:08 <midnightmagic> s/giving in/engaging/
2331 2013-05-01 20:21:21 MobiusL has joined
2332 2013-05-01 20:21:31 <The_Fly> either i need faster development cycles, or clone the repo several times
2333 2013-05-01 20:21:36 <The_Fly> and checkout one branch on each
2334 2013-05-01 20:21:38 ProfMac has joined
2335 2013-05-01 20:22:04 <saivann> midnightmagic : Thanks for your tips
2336 2013-05-01 20:22:11 <The_Fly> maybe one for master the other for development (which can switch branches)
2337 2013-05-01 20:22:45 <midnightmagic> saivann: :-( Don't let them get to you too ok.
2338 2013-05-01 20:22:48 <ryan-c> Luke-Jr: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy "2TBC/KB at larger sizes" what constitutes 'larger sizes'?
2339 2013-05-01 20:23:15 <saivann> midnightmagic : Get to me?
2340 2013-05-01 20:23:38 <midnightmagic> saivann: Moderates are moderate because they act moderately. :)
2341 2013-05-01 20:23:59 <saivann> midnightmagic : Ah right. I think I've done a good job at this.
2342 2013-05-01 20:24:13 <midnightmagic> I think you have.
2343 2013-05-01 20:24:51 <The_Fly> sipa: http://pastebin.com/Z82tnGMW thats my multiwallet merge with master
2344 2013-05-01 20:25:09 <The_Fly> diff.
2345 2013-05-01 20:25:10 ioi has joined
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2347 2013-05-01 20:25:21 <sipa> The_Fly: not going to check the entire code now
2348 2013-05-01 20:25:32 <The_Fly> no, not requesting that you do :)
2349 2013-05-01 20:25:42 <sipa> but it's likely that multiwallet will need rebasing on top of the thread refactor changes
2350 2013-05-01 20:25:57 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2351 2013-05-01 20:26:00 <The_Fly> those soon coming?
2352 2013-05-01 20:26:00 <MC1984_> that presslist still causing drama?
2353 2013-05-01 20:26:03 <sipa> especially as it uses a custom timer implementation, which may not be compatible with that
2354 2013-05-01 20:26:17 <sipa> The_Fly: no, those done like a month ago... but multiwallet is older
2355 2013-05-01 20:26:29 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2356 2013-05-01 20:26:35 <The_Fly> ah right, i saw the switch to boost::thread
2357 2013-05-01 20:26:43 <The_Fly> and fixed up the 0mq to conform
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2360 2013-05-01 20:32:42 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
2361 2013-05-01 20:34:01 <The_Fly> i might have found the problem...
2362 2013-05-01 20:34:09 <The_Fly> *compiling*
2363 2013-05-01 20:36:48 <The_Fly> lol, fixed one bug, found another
2364 2013-05-01 20:36:52 <The_Fly> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::lock_error> >'
2365 2013-05-01 20:39:10 <The_Fly> and that on is in timer.cpp
2366 2013-05-01 20:39:35 <The_Fly> bool Unschedule(CTimerJob *job) { boost::unique_lock<boost::mutex> lock(mutex); <---
2367 2013-05-01 20:41:27 <The_Fly> sipa: indeed it appears to be the old timer code
2368 2013-05-01 20:41:41 <The_Fly> referenced in wallet.h
2369 2013-05-01 20:41:49 ProfMac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2372 2013-05-01 20:42:57 <The_Fly> CWallet::~CWallet (this=0xa2cee0, __in_chrg=<optimised out>) at /home/the_fly/workspace/bitcoin/bitcoind/src/wallet.h:85
2373 2013-05-01 20:43:11 <The_Fly> WalletLockJob (this=0xa2d028, __in_chrg=<optimised out>) at /home/the_fly/workspace/bitcoin/bitcoind/src/wallet.h:45
2374 2013-05-01 20:43:45 <The_Fly> ^ ~CWalletLockJob
2375 2013-05-01 20:44:15 * nejucomo reads http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.bitcoin.devel/1996
2376 2013-05-01 20:46:09 <Luke-Jr> saivann: don't care enough about whether it exists or not - but considering he posted on the trolls' thread, perhaps it would be good to invite him to a rational discussion about it here; I'm not sure how much he's aware the forum has become troll grounds etc
2377 2013-05-01 20:46:28 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2378 2013-05-01 20:46:28 <nejucomo> I haven't been following bitcoin-devel (but I just signed up). From this thread, it's not clear to me if blockchain backwards compatibility is a requirement.
2379 2013-05-01 20:46:40 <The_Fly> sipa: seems the CWalletLockJob lockJob; was removed for the timed lock
2380 2013-05-01 20:46:48 <The_Fly> but remains here
2381 2013-05-01 20:46:51 Steve132 has joined
2382 2013-05-01 20:47:03 <saivann> Luke-Jr : I contacted him just to let him know of what is going.
2383 2013-05-01 20:47:20 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
2384 2013-05-01 20:48:20 <Luke-Jr> saivann: I'd suggest sending your "general guidelines but-not-binding-to-the-word" summary thing, so he understands it's not just fiat
2385 2013-05-01 20:48:35 <Luke-Jr> as the trolls want everyone to think
2386 2013-05-01 20:48:42 <The_Fly> i should just be able to remove the CWalletLockJob refs rigth?
2387 2013-05-01 20:48:43 <The_Fly> *right?
2388 2013-05-01 20:48:52 <The_Fly> as they're now redundant
2389 2013-05-01 20:48:54 <denisx> sipa: would it make sense to join two tx which have not been sent to the network already because there were not enough unspent coins?
2390 2013-05-01 20:48:54 <The_Fly> (and broken)
2391 2013-05-01 20:49:10 <denisx> sipa: I mean automatically
2392 2013-05-01 20:49:34 MobGod has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2393 2013-05-01 20:52:25 AndChat64721 has joined
2394 2013-05-01 20:53:04 <The_Fly> okay, removed lockJob and CWalletLockJob
2395 2013-05-01 20:53:09 <The_Fly> let's see if that plays nicer
2396 2013-05-01 20:54:00 ioi has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
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2398 2013-05-01 20:56:25 <The_Fly> and there are a few other methods which can die also
2399 2013-05-01 20:56:56 <The_Fly> bool TimedLock(int64 seconds); etc.
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2406 2013-05-01 21:04:42 <denisx> sipa: this would also make sense because it would generally combine tx which is a good thing, right?
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2415 2013-05-01 21:21:11 <The_Fly> wayhey! fixed the tests
2416 2013-05-01 21:21:19 Alamo777 has joined
2417 2013-05-01 21:21:27 <The_Fly> and the bug, was indeed to do with the timed lock sipa
2418 2013-05-01 21:21:46 <The_Fly> looked at a diff between the relevant files and compared to master, edits were trivial
2419 2013-05-01 21:21:57 <The_Fly> (involved only the backspace key)
2420 2013-05-01 21:22:06 <The_Fly> the best kind ;)
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2423 2013-05-01 21:22:35 <The_Fly> woot, tests all pass and no exceptions/assertfailures on exit
2424 2013-05-01 21:23:46 <The_Fly> sipa: thanks for your help
2425 2013-05-01 21:24:40 ielo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2428 2013-05-01 21:30:05 <The_Fly> well, have to give some credit to gdb and kdbg also ;)
2429 2013-05-01 21:30:27 <The_Fly> thats 0mq+multiwallet merged and still passing
2430 2013-05-01 21:30:57 eklass has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2435 2013-05-01 21:34:21 <Luke-Jr> hmm, I wonder if the automatic coin selector should try to create change of more-round amounts
2436 2013-05-01 21:34:27 <Luke-Jr> to make identifying change less obvious
2437 2013-05-01 21:34:29 Jamesonwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2439 2013-05-01 21:35:53 * Luke-Jr is liking coin control a lot - makes tidying up my wallet easy
2440 2013-05-01 21:35:55 <jchp> how would you do that without creating more dust?
2441 2013-05-01 21:36:06 Guest36109 has joined
2442 2013-05-01 21:36:11 <Luke-Jr> jchp: I don't follow. If anything, this kind of logic would reduce dust
2443 2013-05-01 21:36:26 Prattler has joined
2444 2013-05-01 21:36:35 <Luke-Jr> almost every time I send coins now, I use coin control to reduce my own dust-impact
2445 2013-05-01 21:36:38 <Luke-Jr> eg 6596e97f8a1eacdef22da812d6102786cc6dfcad70e272fd9f1baab7e765291a
2446 2013-05-01 21:36:51 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2447 2013-05-01 21:37:20 <jchp> how would you create change of more round amounts without having an additional txout?
2448 2013-05-01 21:37:22 sebicas has joined
2449 2013-05-01 21:37:32 <jchp> somewhere along the line
2450 2013-05-01 21:38:58 <ryan-c> Luke-Jr: did you see my question earlier?
2451 2013-05-01 21:39:15 <ryan-c> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy "2TBC/KB at larger sizes" what constitutes 'larger sizes'?
2452 2013-05-01 21:40:21 gossamr has joined
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2455 2013-05-01 21:43:30 <helo> hah... i was thinking "why is the wiki referring to tonal bitcoin?" typo BTC -> TBC
2456 2013-05-01 21:43:52 <ryan-c> no, it means tonal bitcoins
2457 2013-05-01 21:43:56 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2458 2013-05-01 21:43:58 <helo> :(
2459 2013-05-01 21:45:23 <helo> unfortunate both that 1) parts of the wiki use tonal, and 2) TBC is a simple transpose typo from BTC
2460 2013-05-01 21:45:26 <Luke-Jr> ryan-c: I think it's over 1 kB
2461 2013-05-01 21:46:36 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2462 2013-05-01 21:46:48 <Luke-Jr> helo: I think it's a pretty difficult typo actually
2463 2013-05-01 21:47:09 <helo> yeah, same typing hand, so not terrible
2464 2013-05-01 21:47:20 xait9 has left ()
2465 2013-05-01 21:47:24 <ryan-c> Luke-Jr: So e.g. a nonstandard 16kB transaction would be mined with say a 0.005 BTC fee?
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2468 2013-05-01 21:50:21 Pinion has joined
2469 2013-05-01 21:50:34 <ryan-c> anyone know what format bitcoin uses for variable length integers?
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2473 2013-05-01 21:53:21 <Luke-Jr> ryan-c: custom format
2474 2013-05-01 21:53:32 <ryan-c> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification < listed here, under variable length integer
2475 2013-05-01 21:54:06 sacrelege has joined
2476 2013-05-01 21:54:48 <ryan-c> that makes sense
2477 2013-05-01 21:55:37 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2478 2013-05-01 21:56:52 <Luke-Jr> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/05/01/217230/e-sports-league-stuffed-bitcoin-mining-code-inside-client-software <-- fail
2479 2013-05-01 21:57:57 <_dr> no no, it was just an april fool's joke, you know? ;)
2480 2013-05-01 21:58:56 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2481 2013-05-01 22:01:27 Insti has joined
2482 2013-05-01 22:01:52 freefox has joined
2483 2013-05-01 22:02:28 <helo> silly node... why u give empty vin?
2484 2013-05-01 22:04:28 Alamo777 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2485 2013-05-01 22:06:38 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2486 2013-05-01 22:06:54 <helo> i feel like i should be saving copies of all of these weird transactions
2487 2013-05-01 22:07:03 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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2489 2013-05-01 22:07:35 <pigeons> the ripple bubble is near The Cloud
2490 2013-05-01 22:07:43 <pigeons> oops wrong windos
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2494 2013-05-01 22:10:53 <The_Fly> hm, i got a "Error opening block database" and had to do a reindex
2495 2013-05-01 22:11:02 <The_Fly> that's not right is it? i shouldn't have to do so
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2512 2013-05-01 22:25:22 <mrkent> How do I decrypt this Protkey that vanitygen created?
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