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   7 2013-05-02 00:15:44 <SirDefaced> what does "SCRIPT_ADDRESS = 36" do? I know what pubkey does, just not real sure about this one.
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  11 2013-05-02 00:15:57 <SirDefaced> i think in bitcoin its SCRIPT_ADDRESS = 5
  12 2013-05-02 00:17:50 <Luke-Jr> SirDefaced: this is a bitcoin channel
  13 2013-05-02 00:19:33 <SirDefaced> Luke-Jr yes, thats why i ment to ask for with the bitcoin setting. What is the varible responsible for?
  14 2013-05-02 00:19:45 <SirDefaced> its in base58.h
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  16 2013-05-02 00:21:27 <CodeShark> that's the address version number, no?
  17 2013-05-02 00:21:42 <SirDefaced> CodeShark yes. indeed!
  18 2013-05-02 00:21:56 <SirDefaced> but im not sure what that means i guess is what im trying to say.
  19 2013-05-02 00:22:11 <CodeShark> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Base58Check_encoding
  20 2013-05-02 00:22:15 <SirDefaced> ty!
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  52 2013-05-02 00:58:55 <The_Fly> along the way i seem to have ressurected the N5boost12interprocess22interprocess_exceptionE permission denied in AppInit
  53 2013-05-02 00:59:02 <The_Fly> need stacktrace
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  57 2013-05-02 01:01:36 <The_Fly> and an "error opening the block database" :S
  58 2013-05-02 01:03:43 <The_Fly> but not on a clean ~/.bitcoin
  59 2013-05-02 01:03:45 <The_Fly> hum...
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  62 2013-05-02 01:06:13 <The_Fly> on clean ~/.bitcoin both those errors die
  63 2013-05-02 01:06:31 <The_Fly> bad blockchain :S ?
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  74 2013-05-02 01:22:28 <The_Fly> well, i dont understand why i had to -reindex, as before
  75 2013-05-02 01:22:44 <The_Fly> but still, in the process it made me chase down a bunch of unused code and get rid of it
  76 2013-05-02 01:24:12 <rdponticelli> Looks like you'll end up with a The_Flycoin... :p
  77 2013-05-02 01:24:20 realazthat is now known as realazthat_
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  79 2013-05-02 01:25:27 <The_Fly> heheh
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  81 2013-05-02 01:25:38 <The_Fly> must have all the coins
  82 2013-05-02 01:26:14 <The_Fly> well im enjoying having a look around the code
  83 2013-05-02 01:26:26 <The_Fly> and to contribute something
  84 2013-05-02 01:26:29 <The_Fly> to a worthy cause
  85 2013-05-02 01:26:35 <The_Fly> whilst having fun at the same time
  86 2013-05-02 01:26:38 <rdponticelli> Yeah, nice work
  87 2013-05-02 01:27:21 <The_Fly> thanks, its nice to have both features as they are/were a big missing piece for a project i am working on
  88 2013-05-02 01:27:33 paraipan has joined
  89 2013-05-02 01:27:50 <The_Fly> and its best not to let useful features fall by the wayside
  90 2013-05-02 01:28:18 <The_Fly> lets just hope the next pull request into master doesn't bugger it all up lol
  91 2013-05-02 01:28:28 <The_Fly> *merged into
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 112 2013-05-02 01:43:59 <The_Fly> sent a lot of testnet coins back to the faucet
 113 2013-05-02 01:44:06 <The_Fly> from whence they came
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 117 2013-05-02 01:46:50 <Inc0gn1t0> Is it normal for a bitcoind server process jump to almost 100% of that core when importing a bitcoin address for several minutes?
 118 2013-05-02 01:47:33 <The_Fly> that doesn't sound right
 119 2013-05-02 01:47:42 * Inc0gn1t0 slaps CodeShark around a bit with a large trout
 120 2013-05-02 01:47:58 <Inc0gn1t0> using importaddress from CodeShark's pull request
 121 2013-05-02 01:49:17 <Inc0gn1t0> Where is he when you need him :(
 122 2013-05-02 01:49:39 <Inc0gn1t0> anyone here has messed around with that pull request that I am talking about that can give me some feedback?
 123 2013-05-02 01:51:14 <Inc0gn1t0> Wow that call finally finished it took like 5 mintues
 124 2013-05-02 01:51:22 <Inc0gn1t0> thats crazy slow
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 126 2013-05-02 01:51:58 <Inc0gn1t0> Oh its probably "rescan" option on ;\
 127 2013-05-02 01:52:13 <Inc0gn1t0> gotta disable that  I think
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 314 2013-05-02 04:41:49 <swulf--1> hey guys, i have a transaction I sent out over a day ago.. and it hasn't confirmed yet.  can i claim the funds by reusing that input in another trasaction with higher fees?
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 319 2013-05-02 04:50:14 <weex> you can try
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 321 2013-05-02 04:50:49 <jchp> swulf--1: it probably won't work in most cases, but transactions will auto-expire after a couple days, so you can resend the transaction with higher feesthen
 322 2013-05-02 04:50:59 <swulf--1> they will?
 323 2013-05-02 04:51:08 <jchp> yes, they get dropped after 2-3 days or so
 324 2013-05-02 04:51:17 <swulf--1> ah, curious
 325 2013-05-02 04:51:38 <jchp> resend the transaction manually in 3 days and it'll probably work
 326 2013-05-02 04:52:05 <jchp> if you're paranoid, use a different client to send the manual transaction as your bitcoin client might rebroadcast the old transaction (i'm not sure about the specifics of this part)
 327 2013-05-02 04:52:31 <swulf--1> here's the tx: 43829436457ae7406fda074e7adf85225ad2cfcac9c7274e58fe9bedc888eb4e   any ideas why you think it wouldn't be included? i would blame the low fees but i've sent out 0-fee txns before that have been included in less than a few hours
 328 2013-05-02 04:53:02 <swulf--1> well, actually, i'm working on an offline client so i can just generate the tx myself and be sure it doesn't resend the old one
 329 2013-05-02 04:53:26 <jchp> oh wait your original question is correct
 330 2013-05-02 04:53:33 <jchp> you can make another transaction and pay double fees or whatever
 331 2013-05-02 04:53:45 <jchp> that uses the inputs/change of the transaction that is pending
 332 2013-05-02 04:54:02 <swulf--1> so just make a new transaction reusing that input, but with higher fees?
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 334 2013-05-02 04:54:22 <jchp> that happend to me last month and it worked, apparently slush and eligius will sum up all the dependent transactions
 335 2013-05-02 04:54:28 <jchp> yes
 336 2013-05-02 04:54:33 <swulf--1> ah, cool
 337 2013-05-02 04:54:59 <swulf--1> I have to add this feature to my client quickly...
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 345 2013-05-02 05:07:24 <IanCormac> Is it true that OP_CHECKSIG does a bunch of other shit besides making sure that stack[1] is signed by stack[0]? And if so, is there any script opcode that JUST checks the validity of a signature?
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 359 2013-05-02 05:31:06 <IanCormac> Anyone? I'm kind of curious. It seems pretty shitty if OP_CHECKSIG doesn't actually, you know, just check the sig…
 360 2013-05-02 05:32:07 <Luke-Jr> IanCormac: the transaction data (which is being signed) is not on the stack
 361 2013-05-02 05:32:43 <IanCormac> Right, but is there any primitive that lets you check the signature for some arbitrary data?
 362 2013-05-02 05:33:04 sl1982-Desktop has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 363 2013-05-02 05:33:56 <IanCormac> It seems a little limiting to only allow ECDSA signing operations for the entire transaction
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 365 2013-05-02 05:34:28 rushed has joined
 366 2013-05-02 05:36:15 <Luke-Jr> IanCormac: sadly, that's how it is
 367 2013-05-02 05:37:22 <scintill> if it helps, there's RIPEMD160, SHA1, SHA256, HASH160, HASH256
 368 2013-05-02 05:37:38 <IanCormac> Hmm. I wonder what the use cases are for a more flexible ECDSA opcode. Some guy brought it up as a criticism of the scripting system and I had to agree that that was a shortcoming
 369 2013-05-02 05:37:42 <IanCormac> yes, it's nice that we have those
 370 2013-05-02 05:37:56 <IanCormac> but I'm not sure why we don't have those for ECDSA
 371 2013-05-02 05:38:11 <IanCormac> e.g. two separate opcodes, one to hash the transaction, one to check a signature of that hash
 372 2013-05-02 05:38:25 <IanCormac> I feel like OP_CHECKSIG should have been the latter of what I just described
 373 2013-05-02 05:38:42 <scintill> it could be useful for the script to inspect the transaction data, and could have been implemented that way instead of rolling it all into the CHECKSIG
 374 2013-05-02 05:39:04 <Luke-Jr> IanCormac: would make a good idea for a scripting-overhaul hardfork someday
 375 2013-05-02 05:39:04 <IanCormac> Indeed
 376 2013-05-02 05:39:30 <IanCormac> We're going to need a scripting upgrade at some point anyway. I might go ahead and work on that opcode if I can find the time
 377 2013-05-02 05:39:35 <scintill> yeah, or being able to just hash the tx like you say would be good too.
 378 2013-05-02 05:40:33 <scintill> I'm wondering if a pull-request for that would be accepted, since nobody will relay or mine non-standard transactions unless they hack up their client.
 379 2013-05-02 05:41:25 <IanCormac> I doubt a new opcode would be put into the main fork without a shitload of review, even if the opcode was inactive
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 385 2013-05-02 05:47:40 <scintill> have there been any discussions about what users can do to self-censor their own blockchain from the stuff that was dumped ~3 weeks ago?
 386 2013-05-02 05:47:42 gruvfunk has joined
 387 2013-05-02 05:48:04 OneFixt_ has joined
 388 2013-05-02 05:48:23 <IanCormac> What are you referring to?
 389 2013-05-02 05:49:50 <scintill> http://garzikrants.blogspot.se/2013/04/on-bitcoin-data-spam-and-evil-data.html -- someone encoded a bunch of files into transactions, including Hidden Wiki pages about pedophilia and possibly child porn
 390 2013-05-02 05:50:49 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 391 2013-05-02 05:51:04 <IanCormac> Lol
 392 2013-05-02 05:51:14 <IanCormac> Why would you want to self-censor?
 393 2013-05-02 05:51:20 <IanCormac> that's probably bad for blockchain integrity
 394 2013-05-02 05:51:38 <scintill> also some wikileaks files, DRM keys, etc. but the CP is most worrying from legal standpoints
 395 2013-05-02 05:51:41 <IanCormac> And there are probably unspent outputs involved, I would imagine
 396 2013-05-02 05:52:30 <IanCormac> Yes, but you can either have a working Bitcoin or you can kiss up to the moral legislators :)
 397 2013-05-02 05:53:06 Tantadruj has joined
 398 2013-05-02 05:53:10 <scintill> yeah, I know it's not trivial to scrub it out and still be secure, so I'm wondering if anyone has looked at ways to do it with minimal disturbance to your own transactions and to the rest of the network.
 399 2013-05-02 05:54:27 <IanCormac> Fair enough. Well, I have no idea
 400 2013-05-02 05:54:34 ashman has joined
 401 2013-05-02 05:54:55 <IanCormac> Do you live in the USA? I would just use FDE and take the fifth. That should cover most of your bases
 402 2013-05-02 05:55:10 <IanCormac> :p
 403 2013-05-02 05:56:41 <Belxjander> ask the authorities to trace down the idiot who "polluted" the blockchain
 404 2013-05-02 05:57:17 <IanCormac> How do you propose we do that? If they're dumping CP in the blockchain, they're obviously tech-savvy.
 405 2013-05-02 05:57:38 <scintill> yeah, I have FDE and am not all that worried even if I got caught with textual links to that stuff that can be easily explained as just being in the blockchain.  but if someone does an actual image... I'm pretty sure knowing that it happened and not reporting that you have it on your hard drive is a huge problem, in the USA at least
 406 2013-05-02 05:58:31 <IanCormac> Our culture is so ridiculously afraid of pedophilia :/ it's almost as bad as the red scares
 407 2013-05-02 05:58:58 ashman has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 408 2013-05-02 05:59:10 <Belxjander> scintill: I got to walk away from a case back in New Zealand
 409 2013-05-02 05:59:40 <Belxjander> basically because If the dept had tried to do me... I would have ripped BOTH investigators new ones... along with breaching a shitload of their existing casework
 410 2013-05-02 05:59:54 <Belxjander> they are not allowed to bring "visitors" into the workroom if they become suspects
 411 2013-05-02 06:00:02 <scintill> and there are some news stories coming out about this incident, probably in the next few days... soon as legislators get whiff of this, we could be in for some interesting times
 412 2013-05-02 06:00:28 * Belxjander had not only been IN the workroom but was also able to bust at least one on basic forensics and electronics 101 of never accepting a static sensitive device
 413 2013-05-02 06:01:26 <Belxjander> and the only reason they had the case was because I gave them key evidence in the first place
 414 2013-05-02 06:02:16 <scintill> Belxjander: they let you in before you were a suspect? and what do you mean about static sensitive device?
 415 2013-05-02 06:02:50 <Belxjander> scintill: hand a police officer an unwrapped PCI card or HDD and that pretty much voids the forensics as soon as they touch it
 416 2013-05-02 06:03:27 <Belxjander> and I handed one of the lead investigators an unwrapped HDD in the workroom where they process evidence in handing it over to start the case
 417 2013-05-02 06:04:08 <scintill> Belxjander: hmm. but how did you prove that, or convince them that you would be able to prive it? seems like they would just say "no, it was handled safely." who's the court going to believe?
 418 2013-05-02 06:04:25 <Belxjander> so they were stuck between a rock and a hard place... if I had gone into the courtroom as a suspect... I would have ripped the dept a gaping new one that would have bled at least one investigators caseload for a long time
 419 2013-05-02 06:04:46 <Belxjander> scintill: they also had the rule of non-entry of non-staff...
 420 2013-05-02 06:04:49 <Belxjander> I was non-staff
 421 2013-05-02 06:05:16 <Belxjander> and being able to state "X is in Y location relative to Z and W, B and D" along with placing where the desks were and various other parts of the room
 422 2013-05-02 06:05:24 <Belxjander> as well as what material is located where
 423 2013-05-02 06:05:36 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
 424 2013-05-02 06:05:41 <Belxjander> the judge would have to walk into the work room and decide immediately
 425 2013-05-02 06:05:51 <scintill> Belxjander: ah, so just the fact that you would know things about that when you shouldn't have, would lend credibility to your story. interesting
 426 2013-05-02 06:06:17 <Belxjander> scintill: not just that.... I would be able to quote not just where things are... but WHAT things were where in the workroom
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 428 2013-05-02 06:06:46 <Belxjander> not just credibility... pretty hard to fake that layout or lie about it and get it right
 429 2013-05-02 06:07:10 <Belxjander> or even that there was a specific item on a specific shelf located in a specific place of the workroom
 430 2013-05-02 06:07:43 <Belxjander> you can NOT get specific information like that about a windowless room in the middle of a building behind a security door that is staff only without having had physical access
 431 2013-05-02 06:08:10 <Belxjander> I had had that physical access to eyeball the room
 432 2013-05-02 06:08:23 <scintill> Belxjander: I mean, credibility that since you were near-provably there, you would know what happened. and, if they broke those rules, they may have broken the static rule too
 433 2013-05-02 06:08:52 <Belxjander> scintill: It would have ripped the dept a definite new gaping hole since I was there with only ONE of the investigators...
 434 2013-05-02 06:09:13 <Belxjander> and if one of them lost their job... the partner would have to undergo IA scrutiny and then some as well
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 437 2013-05-02 06:17:59 <scintill> hmm, looking at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=11381.100 it looks like we'd need pruning and to assume that addresses containing, say, ASCII text, are not spendable. then they could be pruned and forgotten.
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 442 2013-05-02 06:19:28 <IanCormac> Yeah, fuck that
 443 2013-05-02 06:19:41 <IanCormac> protocol integrity is 10000x more important than legal conformity
 444 2013-05-02 06:20:06 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 445 2013-05-02 06:20:41 testnode9 has joined
 446 2013-05-02 06:21:19 <scintill> I'm not advocating for forced legal conformity, just some way for each user to protect himself if he wants.
 447 2013-05-02 06:22:48 Belxjander has joined
 448 2013-05-02 06:23:06 <IanCormac> By dropping unspent outputs?
 449 2013-05-02 06:23:16 <IanCormac> And/or changing the definition of a valid output after the fact?
 450 2013-05-02 06:23:20 <IanCormac> Yikes
 451 2013-05-02 06:23:29 <scintill> ideally with no disturbance to his own use of the protocol. definitely with no contamination to other peoples' copy of the blockchain
 452 2013-05-02 06:23:40 <IanCormac> "All transactions starting with 0x123456 are hereby invalid"
 453 2013-05-02 06:23:42 evo9 has joined
 454 2013-05-02 06:24:12 <IanCormac> Each user can't arbitrarily decide what they do or don't want to consider a valid input/output
 455 2013-05-02 06:24:15 <IanCormac> I mean, they can
 456 2013-05-02 06:24:24 <IanCormac> but they won't be able to use the main network
 457 2013-05-02 06:24:33 <scintill> look at http://blockchain.info/tx/6c53cd987119ef797d5adccd76241247988a0a5ef783572a9972e7371c5fb0cc
 458 2013-05-02 06:24:41 <IanCormac> OK
 459 2013-05-02 06:24:58 <IanCormac> What am I seeing
 460 2013-05-02 06:25:18 <scintill> the 1-satoshi escrow outputs are encoded data
 461 2013-05-02 06:25:37 ashman has joined
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 463 2013-05-02 06:25:48 <IanCormac> Yep
 464 2013-05-02 06:25:52 <IanCormac> And?
 465 2013-05-02 06:26:04 <scintill> if you click "show scripts and coinbase" you can see the hex byte-vectors for the public keys. paste those into a hex editor and it's a python program for decoding these types of transactions
 466 2013-05-02 06:26:28 <IanCormac> Cool
 467 2013-05-02 06:26:35 <scintill> do you really think anybody is going to be hurt by deciding those 1-satoshi escrow outputs can be discarded? it's 99.999% certain nobody has corresponding private keys, once you see the public keys are ASCII Python code
 468 2013-05-02 06:26:41 <IanCormac> Yes
 469 2013-05-02 06:26:59 <IanCormac> We have no valid way of determining what is and isn't a valid RX address
 470 2013-05-02 06:27:12 amantonop has joined
 471 2013-05-02 06:27:16 <IanCormac> Rule of thumb: Don't needlessly fuck with the protocol
 472 2013-05-02 06:27:21 <IanCormac> it will never produce good results
 473 2013-05-02 06:27:30 <IanCormac> 99.999% chance is not good enough
 474 2013-05-02 06:27:51 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 476 2013-05-02 06:28:27 <scintill> agreed, so I'm not suggesting forced changes. just for users to be able to look at that, say, "I doubt I'll ever be sent coins from those outputs, so I don't care and I don't want the data on my drive."
 477 2013-05-02 06:28:27 ashman has joined
 478 2013-05-02 06:28:37 <IanCormac> Oh, ok
 479 2013-05-02 06:28:47 <IanCormac> I guess I was extrapolating a bit much from your comment
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 482 2013-05-02 06:29:30 <IanCormac> I would never accept automatic rejection of a transaction on such grounds, but I guess manual deletion is fine
 483 2013-05-02 06:29:49 <IanCormac> problem is when people who don't really understand what's going on start trying to prune the blockchain, they break it
 484 2013-05-02 06:30:14 <IanCormac> and what if ECDSA/RIPE gets broken in the distant future and someone wants to reclaim the BTC from those addresses?
 485 2013-05-02 06:30:18 XRPTrader2 has joined
 486 2013-05-02 06:30:20 <scintill> I agree there could be a problem if everyone starts doing stuff like this, then it may be hard to find a true record of the transaction
 487 2013-05-02 06:30:48 <scintill> and it's possible forgetting the "bogus" outputs would affect your ability to verify any coins tainted by the legitimate outputs, I'm not sure yet.
 488 2013-05-02 06:31:12 <IanCormac> EIther way, I'd be very worried about stability
 489 2013-05-02 06:31:38 <IanCormac> Perhaps if you're that concerned with legality, running Bitcoin at all may be a bad idea
 490 2013-05-02 06:31:52 <IanCormac> what with ITAR restrictions, financial regulations, etc.
 491 2013-05-02 06:32:10 <scintill> well, they still could crack the keys, as long as the original transaction was around and trusted. I agree that is a problem if censoring became widespread.
 492 2013-05-02 06:32:51 <IanCormac> Well, we'll see. You bring up a good point.
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 495 2013-05-02 06:33:33 <Belxjander> the only real way to clear out the blockchain would be to drop the whole thing and start over again wouldn't it ?
 496 2013-05-02 06:33:39 <Belxjander> new blockchain and signature ?
 497 2013-05-02 06:34:08 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: yes and no
 498 2013-05-02 06:34:11 jrra has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 499 2013-05-02 06:34:23 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: it's quite possible to "start" a new chain with existing coins retained
 500 2013-05-02 06:34:34 <Belxjander> ahhhh
 501 2013-05-02 06:34:38 <Belxjander> hrmmm
 502 2013-05-02 06:34:57 <Belxjander> but that would not "flush" the taint of the coins themselves?
 503 2013-05-02 06:35:18 <Luke-Jr> what taint?
 504 2013-05-02 06:35:37 <Belxjander> you would need some way to "mark and sweep" garbage collect old coins out of the new blockchain while replacing them with freshly minted material entirely from the new blockchain right ?
 505 2013-05-02 06:35:40 <scintill> there's a currently un-implemented way to prune the chain of spent outputs, or outputs that are provably unspendable. I'm suggesting on an individual basis fudging the idea of "provably unspendable" for your own client only, to include outputs that almost certainly don't have an existing private key and therefore probably can't be spent
 506 2013-05-02 06:35:56 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: Bitcoin-Qt already does that
 507 2013-05-02 06:36:15 <Belxjander> then the problem is what ?
 508 2013-05-02 06:36:37 <Belxjander> I'm sorry if its repetitive... I wasn't aware of most of the previous conversation...
 509 2013-05-02 06:36:40 <Belxjander> is there a log ?
 510 2013-05-02 06:36:51 <Luke-Jr> scintill: it only takes one person to craft a "almost certainly don't have an existing private key" that really does, to break that idea
 511 2013-05-02 06:37:00 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: see topic for log
 512 2013-05-02 06:37:18 saulimus has joined
 513 2013-05-02 06:37:18 <Belxjander> thanks
 514 2013-05-02 06:37:32 dhill has joined
 515 2013-05-02 06:38:21 <scintill> Luke-Jr: oh, is pruning already implemented?
 516 2013-05-02 06:38:40 <scintill> as to crafting fake-looking public keys, could the pruning be soft, so that it won't affect other peers, and that if the user finds himself receiving coins tainted by his pruned tx, he could un-prune it and get them back?
 517 2013-05-02 06:38:49 <Luke-Jr> scintill: yes and no :P
 518 2013-05-02 06:39:11 <Luke-Jr> scintill: Bitcoin-Qt works with a set of unspent outputs (which is pruned by design), but it still needs the full blockchain data to serve other nodes bootstrapping
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 520 2013-05-02 06:39:32 <Luke-Jr> scintill: to un-prune it, he'd have to store it.. so no point
 521 2013-05-02 06:40:45 <scintill> Luke-Jr: ok. so, I'm thinking when someone asks for a block I don't have the full copy for, can I just tell them I don't have it and let them get it from someone else? the caveat being, if everyone does that, the original transaction is lost
 522 2013-05-02 06:41:31 jaequery has joined
 523 2013-05-02 06:41:54 <scintill> Luke-Jr: to un-prune, you could go get it from someone else? again, assuming they haven't all censored it.
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 527 2013-05-02 06:44:25 <Luke-Jr> scintill: maybe
 528 2013-05-02 06:44:31 <Belxjander> scintill: so breaking the distrust model ?
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 539 2013-05-02 06:48:57 <scintill> Belxjander: not sure. for simplicity assume the full blocks were all downloaded and verified to bootstrap, and that a record of that has been written and can be trusted.  I think you could safely discard and re-download outputs from then on and still be able to fully verify them.
 540 2013-05-02 06:49:29 qeb has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 541 2013-05-02 06:50:18 <Belxjander> scintill: no idea...
 542 2013-05-02 06:50:33 <Belxjander> I wouldn't mind making code that let me download the blockchain as one script... on a timer
 543 2013-05-02 06:50:43 nus-- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 544 2013-05-02 06:50:48 <Belxjander> then sorted out verifying the blockchain in segments...
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 556 2013-05-02 07:20:34 <swulf--1> will bitcoind "hold" a transaction if a prevout refers to a txhash that it doesn't know about yet?  if so, how long will it hold it?
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 583 2013-05-02 07:53:58 <Luke-Jr> yay http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100009112/the-online-drug-marketplace-silk-road-is-collapsing-did-hackers-government-or-bitcoin-kill-it/
 584 2013-05-02 07:54:57 <Belxjander> I'd say intense bitcoin trading where the price fluctuates too rapidly
 585 2013-05-02 07:55:05 michagogo_ is now known as michagogo
 586 2013-05-02 07:56:33 <kauzu> hihi
 587 2013-05-02 07:56:56 <kauzu> is der a mining pool that accepts transactions with zero fee?
 588 2013-05-02 07:58:57 Chuky has joined
 589 2013-05-02 07:59:31 <kauzu> i have done some very small test donations without fee to wikileaks to see if and how many days it will take to get acceptet by the network
 590 2013-05-02 07:59:53 <kauzu> has any one an idea how long it will take
 591 2013-05-02 08:00:26 <kauzu> or is it impossible without a fee
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 598 2013-05-02 08:15:48 <weex> kauzu: could get in the next block, hard to say
 599 2013-05-02 08:16:42 sensorii has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 600 2013-05-02 08:17:10 <kauzu> there have been hundreds since transaction was done
 601 2013-05-02 08:17:33 <weex> kauzu: was the very small transaction you did from another recent transaction
 602 2013-05-02 08:17:36 <weex> ?
 603 2013-05-02 08:17:50 <weex> coin age may figure in
 604 2013-05-02 08:17:59 <weex> miners can really choose whatever criteria they want
 605 2013-05-02 08:19:00 <kauzu> the coins are from mach 2013
 606 2013-05-02 08:19:34 <kauzu> i think thats not old from the view of an miner
 607 2013-05-02 08:19:53 <weex> it's old enough i'd think
 608 2013-05-02 08:20:12 <weex> i think there's a page that'll show statistics so you don't really have to do such tests
 609 2013-05-02 08:20:31 <kauzu> where is that page?
 610 2013-05-02 08:20:49 <kauzu> i've been searching for something like that
 611 2013-05-02 08:21:48 <kauzu> and do you think that a modified client with >500 connections or so can speed up zero fee transactions
 612 2013-05-02 08:22:28 sensorii has joined
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 614 2013-05-02 08:32:31 maraoz has joined
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 616 2013-05-02 08:36:44 TD_ has joined
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 618 2013-05-02 08:44:16 testnode9 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 619 2013-05-02 08:45:17 testnode9 has joined
 620 2013-05-02 08:46:48 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 621 2013-05-02 08:47:12 intrd has joined
 622 2013-05-02 08:48:20 testnode9 has joined
 623 2013-05-02 08:48:22 <kauzu> why doesnt blockchain.info show information about my transaction ic?
 624 2013-05-02 08:48:25 <kauzu> *id
 625 2013-05-02 08:49:10 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 626 2013-05-02 08:49:39 <michagogo> kauzu: What's the ID?
 627 2013-05-02 08:49:54 <kauzu> 6aa44c361ba8265b1f1edb493952be124e4eeccf694b995f12be7105d847dcfb
 628 2013-05-02 08:50:08 <michagogo> Oh, my node's not running
 629 2013-05-02 08:50:10 <michagogo> one sec
 630 2013-05-02 08:50:23 <michagogo> kauzu: Could you pastebin the raw transaction?
 631 2013-05-02 08:50:47 <kauzu> where can i get the raw transaction?
 632 2013-05-02 08:51:08 testnode9 has joined
 633 2013-05-02 08:51:51 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 634 2013-05-02 08:51:52 maraoz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 635 2013-05-02 08:52:02 Plornt has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 636 2013-05-02 08:52:05 <michagogo> getrawtransaction 6aa44c361ba8265b1f1edb493952be124e4eeccf694b995f12be7105d847dcfb
 637 2013-05-02 08:52:17 <michagogo> In the console, or as an argument to bitcoind
 638 2013-05-02 08:52:32 t7 has joined
 639 2013-05-02 08:54:12 testnode9 has joined
 640 2013-05-02 08:55:11 <michagogo> kauzu: With the RPC call getrawtransaction 6aa44c361ba8265b1f1edb493952be124e4eeccf694b995f12be7105d847dcfb
 641 2013-05-02 08:55:35 <kauzu> http://pastebin.com/qmkxLNqu
 642 2013-05-02 08:56:13 t7` has joined
 643 2013-05-02 08:56:21 <kauzu> what information does the raw transaction contain?
 644 2013-05-02 08:56:36 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 645 2013-05-02 08:56:55 <lianj> kauzu: your previous output is not found
 646 2013-05-02 08:57:32 <lianj> http://paste.mhanne.net/p/34003aee62a5e746fedff53eec610f321185d982?hl=text
 647 2013-05-02 08:57:33 <michagogo> That transaction isn't valid, apparently
 648 2013-05-02 08:57:46 <michagogo> "TX rejected (code -22)"
 649 2013-05-02 08:58:03 <lianj> kauzu: can you do getrawtransaction 42ab3b87753d69d7645f6e8390791f392e11b50e4cbdf6f3aefb2f160045a1e6
 650 2013-05-02 08:58:29 testnode9 has joined
 651 2013-05-02 08:58:30 <michagogo> kauzu: try getrawtransaction 42ab3b87753d69d7645f6e8390791f392e11b50e4cbdf6f3aefb2f160045a1e6
 652 2013-05-02 08:58:31 <michagogo> Ah
 653 2013-05-02 08:58:40 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 654 2013-05-02 08:59:28 <kauzu> http://pastebin.com/JNBb7zAn
 655 2013-05-02 09:00:16 <kauzu> is there a tool to get information about raw transaction?
 656 2013-05-02 09:02:56 <t7`> kauzu, http://brainwallet.org/#tx ?
 657 2013-05-02 09:03:09 testnode9 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 658 2013-05-02 09:03:35 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 659 2013-05-02 09:04:02 <michagogo> kauzu: try getrawtransaction e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328
 660 2013-05-02 09:04:57 t7` is now known as t7
 661 2013-05-02 09:06:07 <kauzu> michagogo -> says 94def4cdab1f8d62cd3b4a3aa6850c74188411a4a0938ce7fe5ab84554398ccf
 662 2013-05-02 09:06:19 <michagogo> Huh?
 663 2013-05-02 09:06:19 <kauzu> after decoderawtransaction
 664 2013-05-02 09:06:43 <michagogo> kauzu: What's the raw transaction of e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328
 665 2013-05-02 09:06:58 <michagogo> And then of 94def4cdab1f8d62cd3b4a3aa6850c74188411a4a0938ce7fe5ab84554398ccf
 666 2013-05-02 09:09:00 <kauzu> http://pastebin.com/5EL0Wruf
 667 2013-05-02 09:10:00 scintill has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 668 2013-05-02 09:10:16 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (away!~PiZZaMaN2@host-72-2-137-170.csinet.net|Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
 669 2013-05-02 09:10:19 safra has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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 672 2013-05-02 09:12:33 Cylta has joined
 673 2013-05-02 09:13:40 <michagogo> kauzu: I just broadcast e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 and then 42ab3b87753d69d7645f6e8390791f392e11b50e4cbdf6f3aefb2f160045a1e6 and then 6aa44c361ba8265b1f1edb493952be124e4eeccf694b995f12be7105d847dcfb
 674 2013-05-02 09:14:00 <michagogo> Through my node's 13 peers and through blockchain.info/pushtx
 675 2013-05-02 09:14:06 <lianj> michagogo: re. resolved?
 676 2013-05-02 09:14:15 <michagogo> Maybe
 677 2013-05-02 09:14:19 testnode9 has joined
 678 2013-05-02 09:14:22 rushed has joined
 679 2013-05-02 09:14:26 <michagogo> I haven't looked at the actual transactions
 680 2013-05-02 09:15:03 <michagogo> https://blockchain.info/tx/e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 says it's a 1-satoshi spend and a 0 fee
 681 2013-05-02 09:15:09 <michagogo> That transaction may never confirm
 682 2013-05-02 09:15:28 <michagogo> In which case 42ab3b87753d69d7645f6e8390791f392e11b50e4cbdf6f3aefb2f160045a1e6 and 6aa44c361ba8265b1f1edb493952be124e4eeccf694b995f12be7105d847dcfb also will never confirm
 683 2013-05-02 09:16:23 <kauzu> can i brodcast with sendrawtransaction?
 684 2013-05-02 09:16:32 <michagogo> Not if your client already knows about it
 685 2013-05-02 09:16:41 <michagogo> Possibly if you restart your node
 686 2013-05-02 09:17:20 Tritonio has joined
 687 2013-05-02 09:17:36 <lianj> they all have zero fee
 688 2013-05-02 09:17:47 <michagogo> lianj: Right
 689 2013-05-02 09:18:10 <michagogo> 42ab3b8775 and 6aa44c361b look fine, except that 42ab3b8775 spends e275a2c8e5 and e275a2c8e5 is a 1-satoshi output with no fee
 690 2013-05-02 09:18:28 <michagogo> I have a strong suspicion that e275a2c8e5 will never confirm.
 691 2013-05-02 09:18:30 Tritonio__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 692 2013-05-02 09:18:52 <michagogo> In which case, you'd need to wait a while for the network to forget about those transactions
 693 2013-05-02 09:19:11 <michagogo> Then the change from e275a2c8e5 will be released and you can send 6aa44c361b again
 694 2013-05-02 09:19:39 <kauzu> https://blockchain.info/tx/e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328  ...  there is something wrong... there should only be "1HQufiL8VX1WUaBgRo5FegKtKCqjg4MSkU 0.00000001 BTC"   and not "18894QgCCnyytUEVf4sPVhsn1feguqckcG 0.02409999 BTC"
 695 2013-05-02 09:19:49 melvster has joined
 696 2013-05-02 09:19:55 <kauzu> why are there 2 outputs?
 697 2013-05-02 09:21:34 <t7> the input is bigger than 0.0000001
 698 2013-05-02 09:21:56 safra has joined
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 701 2013-05-02 09:23:14 <michagogo> kauzu: "18894QgCCnyytUEVf4sPVhsn1feguqckcG 0.02409999 BTC" is change
 702 2013-05-02 09:23:32 <michagogo> Basically, when you spend an output, you're spending the entire output at once
 703 2013-05-02 09:23:43 <michagogo> You sent to 1HQufiL8VX1WUaBgRo5FegKtKCqjg4MSkU
 704 2013-05-02 09:23:45 <kauzu> i dont know what that means
 705 2013-05-02 09:23:51 <kauzu> yes
 706 2013-05-02 09:23:59 <kauzu> and why 18894QgCCnyytUEVf4sPVhsn1feguqckcG
 707 2013-05-02 09:24:03 <michagogo> And your client automatically created another address to send the 0.02409999 to
 708 2013-05-02 09:24:29 <michagogo> kauzu: Basically, the address 1C5rwa9Ee8gLFppyEv7R8WWoURofgY25mP got 0.025 BTC
 709 2013-05-02 09:24:41 <kauzu> but i cant find 18894QgCCnyytUEVf4sPVhsn1feguqckcG in my wallet
 710 2013-05-02 09:24:41 <michagogo> You can't send part of that 0.025 BTC
 711 2013-05-02 09:24:47 <michagogo> You need to spend it all at once
 712 2013-05-02 09:25:00 jdnavarro has joined
 713 2013-05-02 09:25:11 <michagogo> SO what happens is, it "destroys" the 0.025 BTC output
 714 2013-05-02 09:25:17 <michagogo> And then created 2 outputs
 715 2013-05-02 09:25:30 <michagogo> One to 1HQufiL8VX1WUaBgRo5FegKtKCqjg4MSkU in the amount of one satoshi
 716 2013-05-02 09:25:49 <kauzu> ok
 717 2013-05-02 09:25:55 <michagogo> And then one to 18894QgCCnyytUEVf4sPVhsn1feguqckcG, which is another address controlled by you, for the rest
 718 2013-05-02 09:26:04 g0thX has joined
 719 2013-05-02 09:26:05 <michagogo> The 188 address isn't shown in your wallet
 720 2013-05-02 09:26:10 <michagogo> But it's part of your wallet.dat
 721 2013-05-02 09:26:32 <kauzu> ok
 722 2013-05-02 09:26:47 <michagogo> And until e275a2c8e5 confirms (it never will) or is forgotten (takes a few days, I think)
 723 2013-05-02 09:26:51 <kauzu> when i do sendrawtransaction e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 it says TX rejected (code -22)
 724 2013-05-02 09:26:54 <michagogo> 42ab3b8775 cannot confirm
 725 2013-05-02 09:27:29 B0g4r7 has joined
 726 2013-05-02 09:27:30 <michagogo> kauzu: You would need to sendrawtransaction 0100000001cf8...
 727 2013-05-02 09:27:38 nizeguy has joined
 728 2013-05-02 09:27:47 <michagogo> kauzu: Also, that won't work
 729 2013-05-02 09:27:54 <michagogo> Your node already knows about it
 730 2013-05-02 09:28:44 <kauzu> is there a chance to get e275... acceptet?
 731 2013-05-02 09:29:22 <kauzu> or when will it be forgotten?
 732 2013-05-02 09:29:23 <michagogo> kauzu: Well, if a miner chose to include it, it would get into a block and be confirmed
 733 2013-05-02 09:30:13 <michagogo> kauzu: But that transaction is one that I highly doubt will be inclided by a miner
 734 2013-05-02 09:30:39 basilisk has joined
 735 2013-05-02 09:30:40 <michagogo> I think it takes a few days to be forgotten
 736 2013-05-02 09:31:04 <michagogo> Though, if you restart your node it might forget about it, not sure
 737 2013-05-02 09:31:23 <kauzu> will it be forgotten even if my client is running?
 738 2013-05-02 09:31:28 <michagogo> Eventually
 739 2013-05-02 09:31:48 * g0thX wishes he joined earlier..interesting conversation
 740 2013-05-02 09:31:49 <michagogo> kauzu: Try exiting bitcoin-qt/bitcoind (whichever you're using)
 741 2013-05-02 09:32:12 <michagogo> Then open it again and try getrawtransaction e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328
 742 2013-05-02 09:32:26 <michagogo> If that doesn't work, you can try spending again
 743 2013-05-02 09:33:15 <kauzu> still works
 744 2013-05-02 09:33:34 <michagogo> Ah
 745 2013-05-02 09:33:42 <michagogo> I guess it must get saved to disk somewhere
 746 2013-05-02 09:34:03 <michagogo> Okay, wait a few days until you see it disappear
 747 2013-05-02 09:34:34 <kauzu> what is the minimum condition for a transaction to get confirmed by most miners?
 748 2013-05-02 09:36:22 <kauzu> oh i got another question to e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328  ...  is send this yesterday 15:16 but blockchain.info says 2013-05-02 08:47:31
 749 2013-05-02 09:37:17 atweiden has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 750 2013-05-02 09:37:34 <michagogo> kauzu: The time blockchain.info shows is the time it first saw it
 751 2013-05-02 09:37:44 toffoo has quit ()
 752 2013-05-02 09:37:57 <kauzu> why did it take so long?
 753 2013-05-02 09:38:07 <michagogo> kauzu: That would be just now, when I put the raw transaction in blockchain.info/pushtx
 754 2013-05-02 09:38:24 <michagogo> kauzu: Because it probably didn't get relayed by most nodes
 755 2013-05-02 09:38:28 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 756 2013-05-02 09:39:19 <kauzu> so most miners will never here about e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 ?
 757 2013-05-02 09:39:43 michagogo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 758 2013-05-02 09:40:11 michagogo has joined
 759 2013-05-02 09:40:22 <kauzu> so most miners will never here about e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 ?
 760 2013-05-02 09:40:42 <michagogo> kauzu: Pretty much
 761 2013-05-02 09:43:03 <kauzu> so if my node has >500 connections there is a higher chance for e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 to get accepted?
 762 2013-05-02 09:45:57 <michagogo> kauzu: Well
 763 2013-05-02 09:46:12 holorga has joined
 764 2013-05-02 09:46:15 <michagogo> If one of those 500 has a looser relay policy it might get a little further
 765 2013-05-02 09:47:07 <kauzu> ^^
 766 2013-05-02 09:48:36 <kauzu> so there is a higher chance for winning the lottery than for e275a2c8e5c1346dc1329fb87bcfc04b398fe3f6c6207afa793fb3673a470328 to be accepted?
 767 2013-05-02 09:48:41 duSn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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 770 2013-05-02 09:50:08 <michagogo> kauzu: I wouldn't say that
 771 2013-05-02 09:50:22 <michagogo> I don't know all the rules each node is using
 772 2013-05-02 09:51:19 basilisk has left ()
 773 2013-05-02 09:56:13 <kauzu> ok.. thanks for your help
 774 2013-05-02 09:56:30 <kauzu> i'll let you know what happens with transactions
 775 2013-05-02 09:56:45 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 776 2013-05-02 09:57:31 <kauzu> oh... if i do addnode="ip of mining pool" does this help?
 777 2013-05-02 09:58:32 <michagogo> kauzu: Well, if that's their bitcoin node and you broadcast to them it might help
 778 2013-05-02 09:59:10 sensorii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 781 2013-05-02 09:59:47 <kauzu> i think their node is the first relay ip of the transaction form a new block
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 799 2013-05-02 10:15:29 <grau> Is there a testnet dns feed already ?
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 802 2013-05-02 10:16:39 <sipa> grau: petertodd runs one, afaik
 803 2013-05-02 10:17:00 <grau> thanks sipa, do you also know the name?
 804 2013-05-02 10:17:05 <sipa> testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
 805 2013-05-02 10:17:16 <grau> you are the best
 806 2013-05-02 10:18:12 * sipa checked net.cpp :)
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 828 2013-05-02 10:47:56 <jaromil> I'll also vote sipa at the next elections
 829 2013-05-02 10:50:11 Tritonio has joined
 830 2013-05-02 10:51:20 <jaromil> despite my perverted infatuation for Diablo-D3's harsh tones and perpetual admiration of jgarzik's code. (ok ok 'nuff gossipy OT)
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 848 2013-05-02 11:20:36 <sipa> jaromil: ehhh wut?
 849 2013-05-02 11:20:42 macboz has joined
 850 2013-05-02 11:22:42 * The_Fly shrugs
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 853 2013-05-02 11:24:08 <bithelp> anyone here who can help us with rawtransaction decoding?
 854 2013-05-02 11:24:28 <lianj> help in what sense?
 855 2013-05-02 11:24:42 ralphtheninja has quit (Client Quit)
 856 2013-05-02 11:24:44 <lianj> whats the real question
 857 2013-05-02 11:24:49 ralphthe1inja has joined
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 859 2013-05-02 11:25:39 Brotox has joined
 860 2013-05-02 11:26:33 <bithelp> explain things to us
 861 2013-05-02 11:26:35 <bithelp> were getting stuck
 862 2013-05-02 11:26:54 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 863 2013-05-02 11:27:09 <bithelp> trying to get addressed balances for addresses not in our wallet
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 869 2013-05-02 11:28:07 <sacrelege> I still don't see any question mark :)
 870 2013-05-02 11:28:47 <BlueMatt> bitcoind will not provide address "balances" for addresses not in the wallet, both because its a lot of extra effort/db size and because there arent really balanaces defined for an address at the protocol level
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 873 2013-05-02 11:29:36 <sipa> it will also not provide balances for addresses that _are_ in the wallet
 874 2013-05-02 11:29:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: good morning!
 875 2013-05-02 11:29:42 <sipa> noon!
 876 2013-05-02 11:29:46 <BlueMatt> ehh, afternoon
 877 2013-05-02 11:29:59 Steve132 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 878 2013-05-02 11:30:08 <sipa> must be evening for you :)
 879 2013-05-02 11:30:25 <BlueMatt> no, more like 6 am
 880 2013-05-02 11:30:37 <sipa> right, sign error
 881 2013-05-02 11:30:42 <BlueMatt> but after around 4 time stops making sense...
 882 2013-05-02 11:31:06 <bithelp> cheers BlueMatt.
 883 2013-05-02 11:31:19 <bithelp> dont suppose you wanna get on a quick skype call and help us out a little?
 884 2013-05-02 11:31:23 <bithelp> we're in London/UK
 885 2013-05-02 11:31:49 <BlueMatt> you're probably better off asking questions here, just keep them specific :)
 886 2013-05-02 11:32:05 <bithelp> kk thanks.
 887 2013-05-02 11:33:01 <bithelp> we are building a wallet. to allow people to import existing addresses and then display transaction/history and balance etc, we need to parse all blockchain. using getrawtransactions. is that right?
 888 2013-05-02 11:33:31 <Brotox> i've 4 bitcoins and i want take them as $, what's the procedure ?
 889 2013-05-02 11:33:39 <BlueMatt> yea, you really probably want to create your own db with the data you get from the rawtx api
 890 2013-05-02 11:34:21 <bithelp> yup. we're having issues deciphering what comes back in the call, vins vouts etc etc. cant find any data on it
 891 2013-05-02 11:34:40 <bithelp> anyone else apart from blockchian.info doing it?
 892 2013-05-02 11:35:09 <bithelp> 2 mins on skype.
 893 2013-05-02 11:35:23 <BlueMatt> the raw txn api is not /that/ bad, but if you want a more structured library, you might try one of the 30 bitcoin libraries
 894 2013-05-02 11:35:58 <bithelp> anywhere we can get a list of whats parsed back in the raw twxn api? we cant find docs
 895 2013-05-02 11:36:02 <bithelp> killing us
 896 2013-05-02 11:36:39 <BlueMatt> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Raw_Transactions
 897 2013-05-02 11:36:53 <bithelp> thanks, but it doesnt go in what the things in the response means
 898 2013-05-02 11:36:55 <BlueMatt> not great, but a pseudo-start
 899 2013-05-02 11:38:17 <bithelp> do you understand everything that comes back in the response
 900 2013-05-02 11:38:38 <Luke-Jr> bithelp: people should not be dealing in private keys
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 905 2013-05-02 11:39:17 <bithelp> we're not. all encrypt done client side.
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 907 2013-05-02 11:42:40 <BlueMatt> bithelp: so things that come back from decoderawtransaction: vin is the set of inputs to the transaction, vout is the set of outputs: each output has a value, an index (n) and a scriptPubKey
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 909 2013-05-02 11:43:01 <bithelp> sure u dont want to get on skype for 2 mins?
 910 2013-05-02 11:43:02 <bithelp> :)
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 912 2013-05-02 11:43:16 <BlueMatt> I have to leave in a few minutes
 913 2013-05-02 11:45:08 <lianj> bithelp: please just ask specifc questions.
 914 2013-05-02 11:45:30 <bithelp> do we need to recursively parse all vins
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 916 2013-05-02 11:46:34 <BlueMatt> for what?
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 919 2013-05-02 11:47:24 <bithelp> to arrive at a live balance for an address or to sign transactions for payments
 920 2013-05-02 11:47:35 <BlueMatt> no
 921 2013-05-02 11:48:00 <BlueMatt> I dont have the api in front of me, but you will at max have to process one level deep to get the output of the input
 922 2013-05-02 11:48:06 <BlueMatt> the output that the input spends, that is
 923 2013-05-02 11:49:36 <bithelp> kinda get it. thanks dude
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 925 2013-05-02 11:51:18 <lianj> you need a db with all transactions. and then its simply a matter of querying the db like for example Output.where(address_ids: id, spent: false).sum(:amount)
 926 2013-05-02 11:51:34 <lianj> to get the live address balance.
 927 2013-05-02 11:53:09 <bithelp> lianj - wanna get on a qukck skype call?
 928 2013-05-02 11:53:15 <bithelp> would make our day :-)
 929 2013-05-02 11:54:47 <lianj> no, skype doesn't solve anything. sorry
 930 2013-05-02 11:55:02 <bithelp> can we ignore the vins and just store all vouts?
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 932 2013-05-02 11:55:53 <lianj> not if you want to verify the transactions. and in order to see if outputs are spend you need the vins
 933 2013-05-02 11:56:55 <bithelp> but just 1 level deep?
 934 2013-05-02 11:57:11 <bithelp> do we need to parse the transaction ids, or the vins? if we do it gets recursive?
 935 2013-05-02 11:57:46 <t7> i wonder what % of BTC users are male
 936 2013-05-02 11:58:17 <t7> off topic sorry
 937 2013-05-02 11:58:19 <lianj> t7: yea, not enough female conference talks are important
 938 2013-05-02 11:58:23 <dub> 110%
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 947 2013-05-02 12:05:51 <bithelp> any ideas?
 948 2013-05-02 12:06:47 <The_Fly> blargh, so i ran a bitcoind with an empty dir, as usual cannot connect to RPC during initial download (whether that's expected or not)
 949 2013-05-02 12:07:00 <The_Fly> but then when it "finishes" / catches up
 950 2013-05-02 12:07:06 <The_Fly> still no connection accepted
 951 2013-05-02 12:07:10 <The_Fly> have to kill and run again
 952 2013-05-02 12:10:26 <sipa> The_Fly: huh?
 953 2013-05-02 12:10:41 <sipa> that's a bug if it's true
 954 2013-05-02 12:11:59 <The_Fly> yeah, just checking how it behaves in all my branches
 955 2013-05-02 12:12:37 <The_Fly> i saw something similar in master, just need to confirm
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 959 2013-05-02 12:17:47 <The_Fly> perhaps we should properly warn if bitcoin.conf permissions are wrong (if we dont already)
 960 2013-05-02 12:17:54 <The_Fly> just a thought
 961 2013-05-02 12:19:45 <The_Fly> yeah so on master i cant connect... spinning up a new bitcoind
 962 2013-05-02 12:20:16 <The_Fly> and i'll wager that in the next 8 hours (or however long it takes) after it fetches the blockchain it will remain like this
 963 2013-05-02 12:20:33 <sipa> The_Fly: can you paste some debug.log from during the time its RPC is not available?
 964 2013-05-02 12:20:40 <The_Fly> k
 965 2013-05-02 12:20:44 <The_Fly> this is master btw
 966 2013-05-02 12:22:19 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 967 2013-05-02 12:22:32 <The_Fly> lol, i find it a bit odd that printtoconsole stops debug.log creation
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 970 2013-05-02 12:22:39 <The_Fly> i believe that is wrong
 971 2013-05-02 12:22:59 <The_Fly> but anyway...
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 974 2013-05-02 12:29:01 <The_Fly> pastebin slow or my internet broken
 975 2013-05-02 12:29:13 <The_Fly> i'll see if i can debug current master also and look into it
 976 2013-05-02 12:29:26 <The_Fly> but probably after work-work :(
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 980 2013-05-02 12:41:57 <The_Fly> sipa: http://pastebin.com/FwFEumDS
 981 2013-05-02 12:42:12 <The_Fly> current master, fresh ~/.bitcoin
 982 2013-05-02 12:42:15 <The_Fly> no RPC
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1000 2013-05-02 12:55:23 <The_Fly> sipa: it's very strange as i see the acceptors bind and listen
1001 2013-05-02 12:55:45 <The_Fly> and the rpc_worker_group threads are created
1002 2013-05-02 12:55:50 <The_Fly> but no can connect
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1008 2013-05-02 13:02:20 <The_Fly> ok and now it seems to be working :S
1009 2013-05-02 13:02:30 <The_Fly> will try nuking the ~/.bitcoin dir again......
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1016 2013-05-02 13:04:38 <The_Fly> gah, now is not doing it!
1017 2013-05-02 13:04:55 <The_Fly> same binary, just went through codepath second time round, no bug
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1021 2013-05-02 13:05:31 <sipa> The_Fly: maybe a bug where the port can't be opened for listening?
1022 2013-05-02 13:06:06 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1023 2013-05-02 13:06:07 <The_Fly> that's what im thinking
1024 2013-05-02 13:06:22 <The_Fly> it was definitely reproducable
1025 2013-05-02 13:06:38 <The_Fly> then i loaded up two bitcoinds in kdbg, one as rpc server other as client
1026 2013-05-02 13:06:39 <The_Fly> worked
1027 2013-05-02 13:06:54 <The_Fly> caught the connection
1028 2013-05-02 13:07:11 <The_Fly> nuked .bitcoin dir, bug still gone
1029 2013-05-02 13:07:38 <The_Fly> im regularly checking process list, so dont think i had a bitcoind running
1030 2013-05-02 13:07:52 rdymac has joined
1031 2013-05-02 13:08:00 <The_Fly> but next time it happens a netstat might be helpful
1032 2013-05-02 13:08:47 <sipa> The_Fly: you know the OS typically keeps a listening port locked for a while (a minute or so), if it's not properly closed before exiting?
1033 2013-05-02 13:09:37 <sipa> 4 minutes, even
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1035 2013-05-02 13:09:57 <The_Fly> ah i see... no i thought it cleaned up pretty fast
1036 2013-05-02 13:10:07 CodesInChaos_ has joined
1037 2013-05-02 13:10:08 <The_Fly> from experience it does...
1038 2013-05-02 13:10:16 <jaakkos> does it use SO_REUSEADDR
1039 2013-05-02 13:10:38 <The_Fly> ive killed processes for programs ive written and been able to open fine straight away
1040 2013-05-02 13:10:38 <sipa> for P2P connections we use SO_REUSEADDR
1041 2013-05-02 13:10:43 shesek has joined
1042 2013-05-02 13:10:49 <sipa> but the RPC code uses boost asio, no idea whether it uses that
1043 2013-05-02 13:10:56 <jaakkos> ok
1044 2013-05-02 13:11:04 <The_Fly> there doesn't seem to be any error checking around the listener
1045 2013-05-02 13:11:17 <The_Fly> the acceptor->async_accept
1046 2013-05-02 13:11:59 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1047 2013-05-02 13:12:20 <The_Fly> sorry, there is... but it doesn't output anything
1048 2013-05-02 13:12:24 <The_Fly> or stop bitcoind
1049 2013-05-02 13:13:11 * alaricsp wants to buy more BTC, but his spare-BTC-buying-money is currently sitting in bitcoin-24 and won't come out :-/
1050 2013-05-02 13:13:38 <The_Fly> id like to buy some also
1051 2013-05-02 13:13:44 <The_Fly> price fell a lot in recent days
1052 2013-05-02 13:13:46 <alaricsp> Having just spent ~500GBP on having the car fixed, serviced, tested, and taxed for another year doesn't help!
1053 2013-05-02 13:14:03 <alaricsp> Perhaps next month, if the prices are still good...
1054 2013-05-02 13:14:30 <The_Fly> prices are ok now
1055 2013-05-02 13:14:35 <The_Fly> buy buy buy
1056 2013-05-02 13:14:41 daybyter has joined
1057 2013-05-02 13:14:49 <alaricsp> Need cash! Are you offering to lend me some? :-D
1058 2013-05-02 13:15:23 <The_Fly> maybe if i make it big
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1064 2013-05-02 13:19:28 <The_Fly> sipa: wait, no, theres a if (!fListening) { Shutdown(): } in bitcoinrpc.cpp
1065 2013-05-02 13:19:49 <The_Fly> so it thinks it is listening...
1066 2013-05-02 13:19:51 <The_Fly> but it isn't
1067 2013-05-02 13:20:06 <Grouver> How do I install bitcoind on linux? It doesnt say anthing about it in the README.   And launching it via ./bitcoind without installing it works but then I cant give any commands to it when its running.  I hope somebody can give me a nice hint. Thanks.
1068 2013-05-02 13:20:17 <The_Fly> pfff. next time i get it into that state i'll try see what netstat gives
1069 2013-05-02 13:20:43 <The_Fly> Grouver: you can give commands when you have an rpc server running
1070 2013-05-02 13:21:06 <The_Fly> so run ./bitcoind and then in another terminal window issue ./bitcoind help
1071 2013-05-02 13:21:06 <The_Fly> ./bitcoind getinfo etc.
1072 2013-05-02 13:21:23 <The_Fly> you can also run ./bitcoind -daemon
1073 2013-05-02 13:21:29 <The_Fly> and then ./bitcoin stop
1074 2013-05-02 13:21:33 <The_Fly> to stop the daemon
1075 2013-05-02 13:21:51 <The_Fly> remember that on first run it will want you to create a bitcoin.conf file in ~/.bitcoin
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1078 2013-05-02 13:22:32 <Grouver> The_Fly: Thanks. I already did this. But I was assuming you could give commands to the terminal itself after you started bitcoind
1079 2013-05-02 13:22:32 <The_Fly> as for install... your package manager should have a copy, if not then add the repo
1080 2013-05-02 13:22:39 <The_Fly> no
1081 2013-05-02 13:22:44 <The_Fly> you cant
1082 2013-05-02 13:22:48 <Grouver> ah okay. Clear.
1083 2013-05-02 13:23:00 <The_Fly> you can build from source also
1084 2013-05-02 13:23:06 <The_Fly> and possibly do "make install" but idk
1085 2013-05-02 13:23:42 <The_Fly> no
1086 2013-05-02 13:23:48 <The_Fly> cant, we should add that maybe
1087 2013-05-02 13:24:03 <Grouver> So you cant install bitcoind. Just run it from the bin/32/bitcoind file via the command:  ./bitcoin
1088 2013-05-02 13:24:32 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1089 2013-05-02 13:24:38 <The_Fly> ermmmmmm
1090 2013-05-02 13:24:40 <The_Fly> what
1091 2013-05-02 13:25:22 <Grouver> Well, I was assuming y ou needed to install bitcoind? But apparently you cant and you can only run bitcoind from the file thats in bin/32/bitcoind
1092 2013-05-02 13:25:24 drizztbsd has joined
1093 2013-05-02 13:25:52 <Grouver> Also if I open another terminal and type:  ./bitcoind -getinfo     it says bitcoind is already running.
1094 2013-05-02 13:26:05 <Grouver> which it is... in the other terminal.
1095 2013-05-02 13:26:10 <The_Fly> no
1096 2013-05-02 13:26:14 <The_Fly> is not -getinfo
1097 2013-05-02 13:26:23 <The_Fly> "./bitcoin getinfo"
1098 2013-05-02 13:26:46 <The_Fly> "./bitcoin sentoaddress"
1099 2013-05-02 13:26:50 <The_Fly> "./bitcoin help"
1100 2013-05-02 13:26:53 <The_Fly> "./bitcoin stop"
1101 2013-05-02 13:26:54 <The_Fly> etc.
1102 2013-05-02 13:28:06 <Grouver> ah great. Thanks.
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1104 2013-05-02 13:29:03 <The_Fly> sipa: yeah that bug seems to go away by itself... still would be nice to get better warning or detect the case properly
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1106 2013-05-02 13:29:18 <The_Fly> its now working fine through the same codepath on all my branches :S
1107 2013-05-02 13:29:20 <The_Fly> nvm
1108 2013-05-02 13:29:47 <The_Fly> Grouver: np
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1111 2013-05-02 13:31:25 <The_Fly> m
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1114 2013-05-02 13:31:36 <The_Fly> fsedgrhtjkl;l
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1129 2013-05-02 13:52:55 <The_Fly> also, if my network interface goes down bitcoind sits there flushing to peers.dat and no more
1130 2013-05-02 13:53:29 ashman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1131 2013-05-02 13:53:35 <The_Fly> lets say you migrate a virtual machine, xen etc. or your hosting provider sucks
1132 2013-05-02 13:54:01 kauzu has joined
1133 2013-05-02 13:54:08 <The_Fly> then is possible for net to go down and requires handling
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1137 2013-05-02 13:54:49 <kauzu> are there stats about blockchain size/ number of nodes/ traffic in bitcoin network etc?
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1140 2013-05-02 13:55:35 <The_Fly> x
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1180 2013-05-02 14:19:31 <tedw> anyone see this on bitcointalk?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192880.0
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1183 2013-05-02 14:21:16 <jgm> "Until starting on btcd, most of our developers had written almost exclusively in C"  So it's a my-first-Go project.  Good, good...
1184 2013-05-02 14:22:04 Diapolis has joined
1185 2013-05-02 14:24:02 <kauzu> are there stats about blockchain size/ number of nodes/ traffic in bitcoin network etc?
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1193 2013-05-02 14:37:16 <samui2> hello
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1201 2013-05-02 14:48:31 <tgs3> jgm: C? how about C++
1202 2013-05-02 14:50:36 <tgs3> what is the state of multisignature now, to create funds that can be moved only where say 2 separate parties agree and both sign the new transaction from their bitcoind?
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1214 2013-05-02 15:05:07 <czaanja> Hello, can I please ask if there is known the principle used by blockchain.info to select which nodes to connect ( I mean this http://blockchain.info/connected-nodes )
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1216 2013-05-02 15:05:40 <sipa> czaanja: ask them, i guess?
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1221 2013-05-02 15:13:27 <kauzu> czaanja: i think they only listen for connections
1222 2013-05-02 15:13:34 <sipa> i doubt that
1223 2013-05-02 15:14:27 <kauzu> sipa: why
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1225 2013-05-02 15:15:17 <czaanja> kauzu: Yes I think so too, but I'm wondering how they decide which nodes to connect.
1226 2013-05-02 15:16:03 <sipa> you don't get a 1000 connections just by listening
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1230 2013-05-02 15:19:53 <czaanja> Oh i see, by "only listen" i meant that they are not running regular bitcoind on the nodes. Sure i know they are discovering the nodes and I just wanted to know how.
1231 2013-05-02 15:20:51 <sipa> addr messages?
1232 2013-05-02 15:20:56 <sipa> like every other node
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1236 2013-05-02 15:21:59 <gonffen> when you say, 'regular bitcoind' do you mean, the same variant as everyone else or do you mean it has a fundamental difference in functionality?
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1239 2013-05-02 15:23:55 <kauzu> in the source of bitocoid in Net.h there is "static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = ####;" set #### to the number of nodes you want to connect  recompile and wait some hours
1240 2013-05-02 15:24:22 <czaanja> sipa: Ok, i justed wanted to ask if there is some other option, which they might use
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1242 2013-05-02 15:24:41 <sipa> kauzu: please don't do that
1243 2013-05-02 15:24:48 <sipa> 8 is plenty
1244 2013-05-02 15:25:13 <czaanja> Ok, i dont think they are using regular bitcoind.
1245 2013-05-02 15:25:13 <czaanja> U can try that without recompiling etc. Actually i tried, it is not a good idea.
1246 2013-05-02 15:25:28 <sipa> ???
1247 2013-05-02 15:25:49 <kauzu> sipa: don't do what? if blockchain.info does not only listen i think they just did something like that
1248 2013-05-02 15:25:57 <sipa> kauzu: i consider it abusive
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1252 2013-05-02 15:26:51 <czaanja> You can use bitcond addnode <ip> onetry for as many nodes as you wish and bitcoind will connect to as many of them as you like.
1253 2013-05-02 15:27:05 <sipa> no, bitcoind/bitcoin-qt never make more than 8 outgoing connections
1254 2013-05-02 15:28:09 <sipa> ah, onetry may be different
1255 2013-05-02 15:28:39 <czaanja> They wont, but if you force them with onetry, they will
1256 2013-05-02 15:28:41 <kauzu> sipa: why is it only 8? ok there is no reason for more than that but is it dangerous for the network if everyone has a lot more connections?
1257 2013-05-02 15:29:55 <sipa> kauzu: connectable peers on the network are a limited resource (we've had a period when we were actually running out, and new nodes couldn't connect at all)
1258 2013-05-02 15:30:11 <sipa> it's better now, but there is still no need to try to connect to everyone
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1261 2013-05-02 15:33:09 <czaanja> Anyway, if we are talking about this, is there any way to disconnect curently connected outbound connections and connect to new nodes?
1262 2013-05-02 15:33:32 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
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1264 2013-05-02 15:33:51 <sipa> hmm, not really afaik
1265 2013-05-02 15:36:01 <kauzu> czaanja: you could block the ip in your firewall and wait for bitcoin to dump connection
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1269 2013-05-02 15:41:56 <dansmith_btc> Hello, I'm looking into creating a colored coin client on top of bitcoind. Is bitcoind API enough to search down through the transactions until I find the needed tx output?
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1271 2013-05-02 15:44:52 <czaanja> kauzu: I thought about that, but it does not seem "clean" to me. There is a CloseSocketDisconnect() method in the code, but can not be accesed via rpc or command. And I am not good with c++ anymore..
1272 2013-05-02 15:46:18 <The_Fly> it could be added as an rpc method
1273 2013-05-02 15:46:53 JDuke128 has joined
1274 2013-05-02 15:47:57 <The_Fly> you can add nodes, query connection count, get peer info
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1276 2013-05-02 15:49:46 <dansmith_btc> In short, how can I find which transaction contains the output in question using bitcoind API? Do I have to scan every single block for that?
1277 2013-05-02 15:49:53 <czaanja> The_Fly: Yes, but I did not found a way disconnect them. I can try to write a disconnect rpc method but i did not write a c++ code for ages now
1278 2013-05-02 15:51:06 <Scrat> dansmith_btc: well, you'd start from the colored transaction and go up. getrawtransaction with txindex=1 can do that, but it would be slow calling it a few thousand times
1279 2013-05-02 15:51:37 <dansmith_btc> Scrat, yes that would be slow indeed.
1280 2013-05-02 15:51:46 <The_Fly> czaanja: get back into it
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1283 2013-05-02 15:52:34 <Scrat> dansmith_btc: depends on the number of transactions for that particular color. you'd only go up from the originating transaction
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1292 2013-05-02 16:01:25 <JDuke128> hello , how can i create  new bitcoin address : "new ECKey()" <= with this? whats ECKey ?
1293 2013-05-02 16:01:27 Dabble2 is now known as iwilcox
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1295 2013-05-02 16:02:16 <JDuke128> then , wallet.addKey ?
1296 2013-05-02 16:02:44 kauzu has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1297 2013-05-02 16:03:02 <sipa> i guess ECKey means an elliptic curve key
1298 2013-05-02 16:03:26 <sipa> i.e., a keypair
1299 2013-05-02 16:03:50 <JDuke128> okay , so how can i make new bit coin address ?
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1301 2013-05-02 16:04:09 <czaanja> The_Fly: Ok, I will try to
1302 2013-05-02 16:04:19 <JDuke128> ECKey eckey = new ECKey(); wallet.addKey(eckey); <= this makes new bit coin address?
1303 2013-05-02 16:04:22 <etotheipi_> sipa: what is in the undo-data you store for each block?  is it just the full TxOuts that were removed and the Outputs that had been added?
1304 2013-05-02 16:04:31 <gavinandresen> Am I seeign things or is git HEAD Bitcoin-QT suddenly ignoring testnet=1 in bitcoin.conf ?
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1306 2013-05-02 16:04:54 <etotheipi_> sipa: s/output/outpoint/g
1307 2013-05-02 16:05:02 <JDuke128> someone can help ?
1308 2013-05-02 16:05:25 <sipa> etotheipi_: the removed txouts
1309 2013-05-02 16:05:36 <sipa> etotheipi_: it doesn't contain anything the block data itself contains
1310 2013-05-02 16:06:03 <etotheipi_> sipa: I thought we weren't sure we had the block data
1311 2013-05-02 16:06:03 <sipa> so not the txids:index of the inputs, or the txids of the outputs being added
1312 2013-05-02 16:06:16 <sipa> it assumes you have the block data present
1313 2013-05-02 16:06:26 <sipa> that makes the undo data much smaller (like 3x or 4x)
1314 2013-05-02 16:06:32 <etotheipi_> sipa: oh, because in this case we aren't full pruning yet...?
1315 2013-05-02 16:06:36 <etotheipi_> or am I missing something
1316 2013-05-02 16:06:39 <gavinandresen> … bah, it is running testnet but not putting it's data files under testnet3/ for some reason...
1317 2013-05-02 16:06:46 <sipa> gavinandresen: heh
1318 2013-05-02 16:06:48 <sipa> etotheipi_: huh
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1320 2013-05-02 16:07:00 <etotheipi_> sipa: nevermind, I'm confusing myself
1321 2013-05-02 16:07:05 <etotheipi_> I got it
1322 2013-05-02 16:07:13 <sipa> etotheipi_: it just means you need both blocks and undo data for the part you're willing to reorg
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1325 2013-05-02 16:07:57 <JDuke128> ???
1326 2013-05-02 16:08:08 <sipa> JDuke128: sorry, not familiar with bitcoinj
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1328 2013-05-02 16:10:23 TD[gone] is now known as TD
1329 2013-05-02 16:10:26 <TD> JDuke128: what's your question?
1330 2013-05-02 16:10:47 <JDuke128> i want to make new bitcoin address on bitcoinj api
1331 2013-05-02 16:10:53 <JDuke128> and attach on invoices
1332 2013-05-02 16:11:07 <JDuke128> ECKey eckey = new ECKey(); wallet.addKey(eckey); <= this makes new bit coin address?
1333 2013-05-02 16:11:11 <TD> JDuke128: you're the guy who filed a bug on this topic? please see my email response. you need to read the documentation first: https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/wiki/GettingStarted
1334 2013-05-02 16:11:12 <JDuke128> on the wallet ?
1335 2013-05-02 16:11:20 rdymac has joined
1336 2013-05-02 16:11:25 <TD> once you've read the documentation (all of it), feel free to join the mailing list and ask further questions there
1337 2013-05-02 16:11:55 <JDuke128> i read the doc
1338 2013-05-02 16:12:01 <JDuke128> but its not so much clear
1339 2013-05-02 16:12:07 <JDuke128> so i ask some question...
1340 2013-05-02 16:12:16 <JDuke128> simple question
1341 2013-05-02 16:12:17 <JDuke128> ECKey eckey = new ECKey(); wallet.addKey(eckey); <= this makes new bit coin address?
1342 2013-05-02 16:12:29 <TD> the code snippet you are looking for is in this section:
1343 2013-05-02 16:12:32 <TD> https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/wiki/GettingStarted#Wallets_and_keys
1344 2013-05-02 16:12:39 <TD> it explains how keys and addresses are related
1345 2013-05-02 16:12:55 <TD> these are very basic questions. please do read the documentation. if you don't understand it, you are *very likely* to lose money by accident
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1347 2013-05-02 16:13:34 <TD> anyway, the answer is that generates a new key and inserts it into the wallet. you can turn a key into an address (the "1AbCd....." strings), the docs explain how to do that
1348 2013-05-02 16:16:02 <JDuke128> mm
1349 2013-05-02 16:16:20 <sipa> gavinandresen: afaik, if you specify a datadir, that exact datadir is always used
1350 2013-05-02 16:16:26 <JDuke128> so the bitcoin address is the String which is the public key of the ECKey ?
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1353 2013-05-02 16:16:51 <gavinandresen> sipa: that is a change, then
1354 2013-05-02 16:17:11 <gavinandresen> sipa: … and an unwelcome one.  Having bitcoind and Bitcoin-Qt behave differently is disastrous in this case
1355 2013-05-02 16:17:22 <gavinandresen> (main-net wallet used as testnet or vice-versa)
1356 2013-05-02 16:17:34 <sipa> ah, i misread your mail
1357 2013-05-02 16:17:37 <Optimo> ;;ticker
1358 2013-05-02 16:17:38 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 97.54295, Best ask: 97.71809, Bid-ask spread: 0.17514, Last trade: 97.71809, 24 hour volume: 270969.87256614, 24 hour low: 91.11000, 24 hour high: 130.00000, 24 hour vwap: 111.60374
1359 2013-05-02 16:17:40 <gavinandresen> or, in other words:  somebody broke it
1360 2013-05-02 16:17:40 <Optimo> sorry
1361 2013-05-02 16:17:43 <sipa> i have no idea about bitcoin-qt
1362 2013-05-02 16:18:33 <TD> JDuke128: an address is  hash of a public key with version and check bytes added, then represented using base 58. see the class javadocs for the Address class
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1368 2013-05-02 16:25:37 <tlrobinson> is it possible the second "version"  message example on here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification has an incorrect checksum?
1369 2013-05-02 16:26:23 <michagogo> Is it normal for an issue to not have any activity on it at all 3 weeks later? (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2512)
1370 2013-05-02 16:26:31 <TD> tlrobinson: certainly.
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1381 2013-05-02 16:31:23 <TD> michagogo: yes
1382 2013-05-02 16:31:31 <michagogo> Okay
1383 2013-05-02 16:32:01 <michagogo> Just didn't know if you guys tagged/categorized/etc. issues as they came in or not
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1386 2013-05-02 16:34:45 <TD> michagogo: there are very few developers working on bitcoin. they have their own priorities. there isn't anyone who just goes through filed bugs and fixes them in order or anything.
1387 2013-05-02 16:34:46 <TD> nice though it'd be
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1395 2013-05-02 16:40:21 <wumpus> gavinandresen: wow that sounds bad, wonder when that changed
1396 2013-05-02 16:40:46 <michagogo> TD: k
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1416 2013-05-02 16:54:07 <tubby> Hi
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1420 2013-05-02 16:55:12 <tubby> I'm working on a pet project related to colored bitcoins. However I do not know what parts of the code to modify to include a new tab in the main window. Can anyone help me?
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1422 2013-05-02 16:57:12 <helo> tubby: i more general question is how you will track the ownership of colored coin when it is mixed with non-colored coin
1423 2013-05-02 16:57:29 <helo> *a more
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1426 2013-05-02 16:59:14 <helo> can you transfer them to a random miner via fees?
1427 2013-05-02 17:00:15 <pigeons> helo: current "spec" is "mixing" colored with uncolored "destroys" the coloring and uncolors the inputs
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1429 2013-05-02 17:00:50 <helo> how would you send colored coin without mixing it with uncolored coin to pay the fee?
1430 2013-05-02 17:01:26 <jspilman> helo: see https://github.com/bitcoinx/colored-coin-tools/blob/master/colors.md
1431 2013-05-02 17:01:30 <helo> thanks
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1436 2013-05-02 17:02:33 <jspilman> order based tracking is just one way.  petertodd also has a fidelity bond writup which talks about tracking using odd/even satoshi: https://github.com/petertodd/trustbits/blob/master/fidelitybond.md#contracts
1437 2013-05-02 17:04:10 <tubby2> sorry for the time, back again. As I was saying, I plan on a pet project to test some bitcoin-colouring ideas. To do that I need to add a new tab to the client. The basic problem is that I do not know where to start. Where can I find what files do I need to modify to add the tab?
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1441 2013-05-02 17:06:57 <helo> tubby2: not sure if you saw these, but they are good reading: https://github.com/bitcoinx/colored-coin-tools/blob/master/colors.md https://github.com/petertodd/trustbits/blob/master/fidelitybond.md#contracts
1442 2013-05-02 17:07:02 <jspilman> tubby - check some of the pull requests, there must be someone doing the same thing and you can clone it
1443 2013-05-02 17:07:25 <sipa> tubby2: i doubt the GUI is the largest of your problems when implementing this
1444 2013-05-02 17:07:37 <sipa> jspilman: i don't know of any pullreqs relating to coin coloring
1445 2013-05-02 17:08:01 <jspilman> sipa: yes, I meant just the GUI part, but you are right, GUI is the last thing to worry about
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1447 2013-05-02 17:08:32 <jspilman> tubby2: the rpc code is really easy to extend if you're just playing around with learning the code and prototyping something
1448 2013-05-02 17:09:25 <wumpus> tubby2: walletview.cpp is where the tabs are added
1449 2013-05-02 17:09:54 <tubby2> helo thanks, I hadn't read all that. It probably is a good start.
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1452 2013-05-02 17:11:16 <tubby2> my colouring method is quite stupid. You want to track all tokens from A so all the BTC that leave A are coloured as A. If B got A-coloured coins and wants to send them to C, they just prepare a transaction like B->C(amount of coloured BTC), A(1 satoshi)
1453 2013-05-02 17:11:49 <tubby2> It should be simple enough to encode in little time. (extra BTCs from the inputs are sent back to A).
1454 2013-05-02 17:13:10 <jspilman> tubby2: you don't need to, and probably shouldn't, invent your own method. check bitcoinx google group if you are interested in learning more, there has been months of discussion on coloring techniques and pros/cons
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1456 2013-05-02 17:14:04 <jspilman> better yet, there is prototype code in a few different languages which implement the draft specs, so you can see it in action
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1462 2013-05-02 17:16:46 <tubby2> jspilman, I where can I get that prototype code?
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1488 2013-05-02 17:27:09 <petertodd> sipa: The code should check if the datafiles, especially wallet, were created in the same mainnet/testnet mode that the code itself is running in, and fail hard if the modes don't match.
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1525 2013-05-02 18:03:02 <sipa> petertodd: yeah
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1604 2013-05-02 19:24:42 <moarrr> how long can i expect a transaction with a 0.0002 btc fee to take to confirm?
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1606 2013-05-02 19:31:05 <matjeh> moarrr: http://bitcoin.speedstats.org/
1607 2013-05-02 19:31:34 <matjeh> looks useful, if i knew how to read it
1608 2013-05-02 19:32:08 <moarrr> lol was about to say the same
1609 2013-05-02 19:32:13 <moarrr> can anyone help me understand it?
1610 2013-05-02 19:32:54 <moarrr> oh i think i get it
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1612 2013-05-02 19:33:19 <matjeh> seems to depend on the transaction value as well as the fee
1613 2013-05-02 19:33:27 <matjeh> weird
1614 2013-05-02 19:34:05 <sipa> it shouldn't depend on transaction value
1615 2013-05-02 19:34:15 <rdponticelli> matjeh: The fee depends on the transaction size, not value
1616 2013-05-02 19:34:18 <sipa> or not directly - it depends on priority, which is influenced by value
1617 2013-05-02 19:34:27 <matjeh> rdponticelli: ah, gotcha
1618 2013-05-02 19:34:53 <sipa> size/fee/age of coins are the most relevant parameters
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1623 2013-05-02 19:37:51 <ThomasV> tcatm: why is tradehill not listed on bitcoincharts.com?
1624 2013-05-02 19:38:15 <tcatm> ThomasV: No API
1625 2013-05-02 19:38:29 <ThomasV> their choice?
1626 2013-05-02 19:38:37 <ThomasV> or just ignorance?
1627 2013-05-02 19:38:59 <tcatm> I don't know.
1628 2013-05-02 19:39:10 <ThomasV> you didn't try to contact them?
1629 2013-05-02 19:39:16 <tcatm> nope
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1633 2013-05-02 19:39:53 <ThomasV> tcatm: I'll make a donation if you list them :)
1634 2013-05-02 19:40:36 <tcatm> I'm not going to ask to mail new exchanges, but I'm going to list them when they implement the API and send me urls :)
1635 2013-05-02 19:40:48 <tcatm> s/to ask//
1636 2013-05-02 19:42:21 <ThomasV> ok, I'll mail them :)
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1684 2013-05-02 20:54:28 <nospinzyb>  whats a good site that lists all differnt type of unique affliates
1685 2013-05-02 20:54:36 <nospinzyb> i need revenue from my bitcoin faucet
1686 2013-05-02 20:54:57 <nospinzyb> i had a ad captcha on it but they stoped paying out for this traffic
1687 2013-05-02 20:55:00 <nospinzyb> because they are idiots
1688 2013-05-02 20:55:15 <gonffen> lol
1689 2013-05-02 20:55:37 <nospinzyb> and the thing is over 70% is use traffic from my site
1690 2013-05-02 20:55:41 <nospinzyb> what the fuck do they want
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1703 2013-05-02 21:03:46 <syskk> im getting this error when running macdeploy: strip: object: /Users/olalonde/dev/bitcoin/build/dist/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/Frameworks/libssl.1.0.0.dylib malformed object (unknown load command 13)
1704 2013-05-02 21:03:56 <syskk> anyone knowsthe reason?
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1721 2013-05-02 21:20:26 <kinlo> is there a way to see if a certain transaction is in the memorypool?
1722 2013-05-02 21:21:10 <tlrobinson> is there some sort of canonical documentation for the bitcoin protocol? this doesn't seem to be updated https://github.com/bitcoin/netspec
1723 2013-05-02 21:21:52 <lianj> tlrobinson: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
1724 2013-05-02 21:22:25 <skinnkavaj> "no suitable long-poll found" what does this error message mean? i'm using cgminer
1725 2013-05-02 21:22:28 <sipa> kinlo: getrawmempool ?
1726 2013-05-02 21:22:42 <kinlo> oh, there is a new rpc command? :)
1727 2013-05-02 21:22:44 <sipa> kinlo: also, gettxout
1728 2013-05-02 21:23:10 <sipa> getrawmempool is pretty old
1729 2013-05-02 21:23:10 <sipa> gettxout is since 0.8
1730 2013-05-02 21:23:31 <kinlo> mmmz
1731 2013-05-02 21:23:52 <sipa> getrawmempool since 0.7
1732 2013-05-02 21:23:55 <kinlo> I'm stuck with several transactions in my wallet that aren't confirmed :/
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1736 2013-05-02 21:30:47 <helo> pywallet can help with that
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1738 2013-05-02 21:33:56 <kinlo> yeah, but the transactions seem to be in the rawmemorypool, so I guess they will go trough at some point
1739 2013-05-02 21:34:09 <kinlo> I would like an rpc command to prioritize a transaction
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1741 2013-05-02 21:34:47 <sipa> kinlo: are they in getblocktemplate?
1742 2013-05-02 21:35:12 <kinlo> no
1743 2013-05-02 21:36:23 <kinlo> but as far as I can see, I've properly adhered to all the rules to make it sure it is distributed and included in a block
1744 2013-05-02 21:36:25 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: I have a pullreq for that for months now
1745 2013-05-02 21:36:35 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: it's also included in my eligius/miner bitcoind branches
1746 2013-05-02 21:36:47 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: which pull-req-nr?
1747 2013-05-02 21:36:58 <Luke-Jr> 1583
1748 2013-05-02 21:37:06 <kinlo> I might rebuild my pool-bitcoind to do that
1749 2013-05-02 21:37:17 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: why not use the eligius/miner bitcoind? :P
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1751 2013-05-02 21:38:41 <kinlo> actually, I use an unmodified at this moment to be able to upgrade really fast
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1753 2013-05-02 21:38:59 <kinlo> plus, I'd have to check all patches, coz I don't always agree with your thinking/patches etc :)
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1757 2013-05-02 21:41:34 <syskk> sipa: macdeploy: strip: object: /Users/username/dev/bitcoin/build/dist/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/Frameworks/libssl.1.0.0.dylib malformed object (unknown load command 13)
1758 2013-05-02 21:41:42 <syskk> sipa: any idea what might be causing this?
1759 2013-05-02 21:42:06 <kinlo> hmmmz :)
1760 2013-05-02 21:42:12 seeingidog__ has joined
1761 2013-05-02 21:42:15 urlshell65 has quit (Quit: leaving)
1762 2013-05-02 21:42:21 <kinlo> is there some kind of voting system on github
1763 2013-05-02 21:42:22 Jere_Jones has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1764 2013-05-02 21:42:37 gruvfunk has joined
1765 2013-05-02 21:42:42 <kinlo> I'd like to get that pullrequest pulled, but I don't know what to do to add it :)
1766 2013-05-02 21:42:55 <The_Fly> click click
1767 2013-05-02 21:43:23 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1768 2013-05-02 21:43:41 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1769 2013-05-02 21:49:35 <sipa> syskk: i know nothing about apple stuff
1770 2013-05-02 21:51:54 grbgout has joined
1771 2013-05-02 21:53:06 <grbgout> Hello.  Issue 2521 seems to be merely a matter of a missing library in the unix makefile.
1772 2013-05-02 21:53:18 <sipa> grbgout: i saw that
1773 2013-05-02 21:53:32 <sipa> but why does it seem necessary on some platforms only?
1774 2013-05-02 21:53:33 HM2 has joined
1775 2013-05-02 21:53:54 <grbgout> sipa: well, the linux-mingw and mingw makefiles have the library included.
1776 2013-05-02 21:54:01 <grbgout> not sure about osx
1777 2013-05-02 21:54:14 <sipa> but i can build bitcoin just fine here (ubuntu)
1778 2013-05-02 21:54:30 <sipa> is it only for certain boost versions, perhaps?
1779 2013-05-02 21:54:31 <grbgout> what about bitcoind?
1780 2013-05-02 21:54:37 <grbgout> I couldn't build bitcoind from funtoo.
1781 2013-05-02 21:54:39 <sipa> yeah, i mean bitcoind
1782 2013-05-02 21:54:47 <grbgout> and a few others seem to have the same problem.
1783 2013-05-02 21:55:02 <grbgout> sipa: possibly a boost versioning thing, no idea. I am by no means an expert here.
1784 2013-05-02 21:55:07 <grbgout> Love the graphs, by the way :)
1785 2013-05-02 21:55:49 <grbgout> what version of boost are you using to build from Ubuntu?
1786 2013-05-02 21:56:02 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1787 2013-05-02 21:56:08 <sipa> 1.49
1788 2013-05-02 21:56:19 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1789 2013-05-02 21:56:42 <grbgout> ah, that might be it.  I and the original reporter are using 1.52
1790 2013-05-02 21:56:57 nsillik_ has joined
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1792 2013-05-02 22:00:28 felixhandte1 has joined
1793 2013-05-02 22:00:40 nsillik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1794 2013-05-02 22:01:31 nsillik_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1795 2013-05-02 22:03:28 free__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1796 2013-05-02 22:03:28 grau_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1797 2013-05-02 22:05:15 SirDefaced has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1798 2013-05-02 22:05:16 Steve132 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1799 2013-05-02 22:05:26 <sipa> in script.cpp:
1800 2013-05-02 22:05:33 <sipa>     case OP_PICK:
1801 2013-05-02 22:05:38 <sipa>     case OP_ROLL:
1802 2013-05-02 22:05:49 * sipa misread and thought he was rickrolled :(
1803 2013-05-02 22:05:50 CodesInChaos has joined
1804 2013-05-02 22:05:53 Steve132 has joined
1805 2013-05-02 22:05:58 <grbgout> hah
1806 2013-05-02 22:06:37 <grbgout> Thoughts on the library inclusion? It was suggested I create a pull request, but one line hardly seems prudent....
1807 2013-05-02 22:06:45 sanchaz has joined
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1809 2013-05-02 22:06:45 sanchaz has joined
1810 2013-05-02 22:07:04 <sipa> i wouldn't mind, but perhaps people don't like depending on a library when unnecessary
1811 2013-05-02 22:07:18 <grbgout> I certainly don't.
1812 2013-05-02 22:07:34 IanCormac has joined
1813 2013-05-02 22:07:36 <grbgout> Any idea what version of boost is typical on OSX?
1814 2013-05-02 22:08:13 <IanCormac> How should I check? My roommate has an OS X box I can SSH into
1815 2013-05-02 22:08:17 CodesInChaos_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1816 2013-05-02 22:08:28 <sipa> whatever you install
1817 2013-05-02 22:08:38 <sipa> would be my guess
1818 2013-05-02 22:08:44 johnsoft has joined
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1820 2013-05-02 22:09:47 Steve132 has quit (Client Quit)
1821 2013-05-02 22:10:02 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1822 2013-05-02 22:12:03 <kinlo> sipa: http://i.imgur.com/MDveg.png
1823 2013-05-02 22:12:48 jaequery has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1824 2013-05-02 22:13:24 <sipa> no QR code reader installed, it seems
1825 2013-05-02 22:13:32 <lianj> sipa: rick roll
1826 2013-05-02 22:13:37 <sipa> ha
1827 2013-05-02 22:14:22 Steve132 has joined
1828 2013-05-02 22:14:26 moarrr has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1829 2013-05-02 22:14:58 <kinlo> pfft :p
1830 2013-05-02 22:15:14 <kinlo> sipa: you work for google and you don't have an android capable of doing qr? :)
1831 2013-05-02 22:15:14 <sipa> haha
1832 2013-05-02 22:15:24 <sipa> certainly capable :)
1833 2013-05-02 22:16:23 <kinlo> ok admit it, you've installed a qr scanner :p
1834 2013-05-02 22:16:38 <sipa> eh, no
1835 2013-05-02 22:16:49 <kinlo> pfft :p
1836 2013-05-02 22:16:57 <grbgout> Is there a dev guide that describes the process/etiquette for making a pull request?
1837 2013-05-02 22:17:06 resinate has joined
1838 2013-05-02 22:17:20 <kinlo> grbgout: just make one, be polite and clear, and it will go trough :)
1839 2013-05-02 22:17:35 <kinlo> grbgout: there is a howto on the github site on how to do it
1840 2013-05-02 22:17:45 <grbgout> kinlo: well, I'm not even sure that it should; it only seems to affect recent versions of boost.
1841 2013-05-02 22:17:54 <grbgout> kinlo: yeah, I'm reading that ;)
1842 2013-05-02 22:18:17 <grbgout> "... parties can review the set of changes, discuss potential modifications ..."
1843 2013-05-02 22:18:34 <kinlo> yep, people will discuss your patch
1844 2013-05-02 22:18:44 <kinlo> and if it's good someone of the core team will pull it
1845 2013-05-02 22:18:52 <grbgout> hence the query regarding etiquette
1846 2013-05-02 22:20:00 <kinlo> there are some notes on how to do it in the readme
1847 2013-05-02 22:20:01 <grbgout> IanCormac: any luck on your roomate's OSX?
1848 2013-05-02 22:20:11 anarchy5 has joined
1849 2013-05-02 22:20:42 ThomasV has joined
1850 2013-05-02 22:20:43 <IanCormac> grbgout: I don't know how to check version
1851 2013-05-02 22:20:53 <IanCormac> I can SSH in, but I need to know what to look for
1852 2013-05-02 22:21:00 <IanCormac> I always just install boost via apt-get or brew
1853 2013-05-02 22:21:04 <grbgout> kinlo: so there is! I was looking in bitcoin/doc/ not the top-level readme.
1854 2013-05-02 22:21:08 <IanCormac> I've never looked at what comes installed
1855 2013-05-02 22:21:13 <IanCormac> not even sure if it does come installed
1856 2013-05-02 22:21:20 <kinlo> grbgout: but basicly, just create the pull request
1857 2013-05-02 22:21:21 <sipa> it won't
1858 2013-05-02 22:21:28 bibbybob has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1859 2013-05-02 22:21:36 <sipa> it's whatever version you install/compile with, i guess
1860 2013-05-02 22:21:37 <grbgout> IanCormac: I think sipa was responding to you when he said "whatever you install would be [sipa's] guess".
1861 2013-05-02 22:22:10 <etotheipi_> ThomasV: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88208.msg2009758#msg2009758
1862 2013-05-02 22:22:42 * ThomasV reads
1863 2013-05-02 22:23:37 gmaxwell has joined
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1865 2013-05-02 22:25:16 <IanCormac> Oh ok
1866 2013-05-02 22:25:19 <grbgout> Is anyone aware of attempts to port bitcoin to the Raspberry Pi?
1867 2013-05-02 22:25:21 <IanCormac> Didn't get that, sorry
1868 2013-05-02 22:25:28 <IanCormac> grbgout: I've been working on it
1869 2013-05-02 22:25:31 <IanCormac> It's a PITA
1870 2013-05-02 22:25:36 <IanCormac> Just compiling it
1871 2013-05-02 22:25:43 <grbgout> IanCormac: ooh, documenting your progress anywhere?
1872 2013-05-02 22:25:44 <IanCormac> because half the libs are missing
1873 2013-05-02 22:25:47 g0thX has quit (Quit: zzzzzzz)
1874 2013-05-02 22:25:49 <IanCormac> No, still working
1875 2013-05-02 22:25:56 <IanCormac> but I think gmaxwell might have done it already
1876 2013-05-02 22:26:10 <IanCormac> someone mentioned that in #bitcoin
1877 2013-05-02 22:26:10 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1878 2013-05-02 22:26:11 <grbgout> IanCormac: are you aware of Aboriginal Linux? It may help the process by allowing you to do things mostly in QEMU; such would/will be my approach.
1879 2013-05-02 22:26:17 <IanCormac> Hmm
1880 2013-05-02 22:26:29 <grbgout> IanCormac: http://landley.net/aboriginal/
1881 2013-05-02 22:26:33 michal_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1882 2013-05-02 22:26:49 Prattler has joined
1883 2013-05-02 22:26:53 <michagogo> There's https://gist.github.com/FiloSottile/3646033
1884 2013-05-02 22:27:02 <michagogo> (re: RPi)
1885 2013-05-02 22:27:07 <grbgout> I've been able to boot the Pi using the armv6l root-filesystem binaries from aboriginal.
1886 2013-05-02 22:27:10 <grbgout> michagogo: thanks
1887 2013-05-02 22:27:15 <IanCormac> Interesting
1888 2013-05-02 22:27:19 <IanCormac> Will look at that later
1889 2013-05-02 22:27:29 <IanCormac> But for now, I'm just trying to build the required libraries
1890 2013-05-02 22:27:51 <grbgout> Indeed. That distribution may aid in that, is sort of the point.... Or possibly reduce your stress.
1891 2013-05-02 22:28:02 <grbgout> Can't confrim, though, haven't taken it that far.
1892 2013-05-02 22:29:05 <IanCormac> OK, thanks. Will take a look
1893 2013-05-02 22:29:15 tlrobinson has left ()
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1895 2013-05-02 22:29:48 <grbgout> IanCormac: does your roomate use bitcoin? More to the point: build their own, and might be willing to test the 1.52 version of boost on their OSX?
1896 2013-05-02 22:29:49 CodesInChaos has joined
1897 2013-05-02 22:30:00 <IanCormac> Ah, no they do not :)
1898 2013-05-02 22:30:04 <IanCormac> Hold on
1899 2013-05-02 22:30:08 <grbgout> Pity.
1900 2013-05-02 22:30:09 <IanCormac> let me check which version of boost brew installs
1901 2013-05-02 22:30:21 <grbgout> Thanks.
1902 2013-05-02 22:30:26 <IanCormac> boost-1.53.0
1903 2013-05-02 22:30:28 <IanCormac> Sorry
1904 2013-05-02 22:30:33 <IanCormac> I was overthinking your question
1905 2013-05-02 22:30:38 <IanCormac> That seems to be the latest
1906 2013-05-02 22:30:43 <IanCormac> and most everyone is using brew these days
1907 2013-05-02 22:30:52 rdymac has joined
1908 2013-05-02 22:30:55 <grbgout> Oh, interesting.
1909 2013-05-02 22:31:22 <grbgout> Would it be any trouble to see if current-master builds for them?
1910 2013-05-02 22:31:36 <IanCormac> TBH, I don't even build it myself on my own computers
1911 2013-05-02 22:31:38 <grbgout> Particularly in regard to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2521
1912 2013-05-02 22:31:42 <IanCormac> I was going to start pretty soon though
1913 2013-05-02 22:31:52 <IanCormac> I can get back to you eventually, but it may take a while
1914 2013-05-02 22:32:12 CodesInChaos_ has joined
1915 2013-05-02 22:32:15 <grbgout> no problem.  You can drop me a line at gmail when you get around to it.
1916 2013-05-02 22:32:56 <IanCormac> Is IRC good?
1917 2013-05-02 22:32:57 <The_Fly> you putting bitcoind on a pi?
1918 2013-05-02 22:33:21 <grbgout> IanCormac: I suppose, but I don't leave it on much. MemoServ should work, though.
1919 2013-05-02 22:33:24 <IanCormac> I was working on it
1920 2013-05-02 22:33:29 <IanCormac> The_Fly
1921 2013-05-02 22:33:34 <IanCormac> But I haven't finished yet
1922 2013-05-02 22:33:38 <IanCormac> I forget what lib I'm missing
1923 2013-05-02 22:33:43 <The_Fly> interesting
1924 2013-05-02 22:33:57 <grbgout> The_Fly: if my understanding of Armory is correct, then it looks like the link michagogo has already achieved that. I think bitcoind is a dependency for Armory, isn't it?
1925 2013-05-02 22:33:58 <IanCormac> It's mostly a case of many things not being in the main repos
1926 2013-05-02 22:34:09 <sipa> grbgout: it seems to run in offline mode there
1927 2013-05-02 22:34:12 <IanCormac> So you have to compile all this shit by hand
1928 2013-05-02 22:34:17 <The_Fly> grbgout: i dont know of Armory
1929 2013-05-02 22:34:28 <IanCormac> Armory is a more full-featured bitcoin client
1930 2013-05-02 22:34:32 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1931 2013-05-02 22:34:37 <IanCormac> but it has an "offline mode" that does no network stuff
1932 2013-05-02 22:34:39 Btceldur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1933 2013-05-02 22:34:41 <grbgout> The_Fly: I barely know of it myself.  Took me a second to comprehend the implications of what sipa just noted.
1934 2013-05-02 22:34:55 <IanCormac> "offline mode" doesn't use bitcoind, I think
1935 2013-05-02 22:35:02 <grbgout> IanCormac: I gathered.
1936 2013-05-02 22:35:05 <IanCormac> I think gmaxwell might have bitcoind running on a pi
1937 2013-05-02 22:35:09 <IanCormac> But I haven't asked him
1938 2013-05-02 22:35:26 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1939 2013-05-02 22:36:07 <grbgout> Well, I was just in the process of trying to setup an aboriginal target specifically for the Pi before I thought to check that issue.  I think I'll get back to that.
1940 2013-05-02 22:36:21 <grbgout> IanCormac: drop me a line through MemoServ or gmail when you have a chance to test OSX.
1941 2013-05-02 22:37:31 one_zero has joined
1942 2013-05-02 22:37:32 <gmaxwell> IanCormac: no, my instant response to anyone mentioning a rpi is to tell them they actually want some not-garbage arm sbc. ... rpi is singlehandedly destroying respect for arm for a generation of neophyte hackers. It's a shockingly poor implementation. even a lowly beaglebone is half the power and twice the speed. More reasonable devices like the odroid u2 are much faster still.
1943 2013-05-02 22:37:55 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1944 2013-05-02 22:38:08 <grbgout> gmaxwell: damn, wish I knew that before I bought two on a whim (A and B).
1945 2013-05-02 22:38:24 <grbgout> I also just learned of the MK802 which looks neat.
1946 2013-05-02 22:38:34 felixhandte1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1947 2013-05-02 22:38:56 <gmaxwell> grbgout: if it makes you feel any better, basically none of the alternatives are _quite_ as cheap as the rpi. ... but some are close, and they're all better in pretty much every other dimension.
1948 2013-05-02 22:39:32 <grbgout> gmaxwell: yeah, the price point of the Pi seems to be its best facet, which is why I think bitcoind would compliment it.
1949 2013-05-02 22:39:41 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1950 2013-05-02 22:40:01 czaanja has joined
1951 2013-05-02 22:40:06 <grbgout> gmaxwell: what would be a "close" alternative?
1952 2013-05-02 22:40:47 <grbgout> At the very least, the Pi seems like a decent Introduction to Cross Platform-and-Architechture development tool.
1953 2013-05-02 22:41:11 <gmaxwell> grbgout: http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 is less close but enormously faster, http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone is more comparible in price but only about 2x the rpi's speed.
1954 2013-05-02 22:42:00 <gmaxwell> (ah, they have a new one: http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black )
1955 2013-05-02 22:42:19 <grbgout> Does the BeagleBone have a comparative GPU?  Frankly, I'm mostly interested in any mini device that has OpenCL capabilities. I was disheartened the Pi does not.
1956 2013-05-02 22:42:47 HaltingState has joined
1957 2013-05-02 22:43:09 <jaakkos> you might have to wait for quite some time for decent OpenCL support on embedded
1958 2013-05-02 22:43:32 <grbgout> Why's that?
1959 2013-05-02 22:43:51 caedes has joined
1960 2013-05-02 22:44:08 <The_Fly> surely can run just a wallet on a pi, or even gumstix perhaps
1961 2013-05-02 22:44:08 michagogo has quit (Quit: Goodnight)
1962 2013-05-02 22:44:23 <gmaxwell> uh. yea, no. I don't believe anything does.  (the rpi actually spends most of its gates on a _very_ powerful DSP that people mistakingly call a GPU, but it's completely closed and inaccessible to the user)
1963 2013-05-02 22:44:44 * sipa tests git head with #2410 #2553 #2558 #2566 #2598 #2599 #2600 #2602 #2603 #2606 $2607 #2608 #2601 ... none of those conflict
1964 2013-05-02 22:45:06 <cut> beagle bone has a new model "Black" that is comparable to rpi
1965 2013-05-02 22:45:17 <grbgout> cut: gmaxwell linked that as well.
1966 2013-05-02 22:45:20 <sipa> #2610 is the last one
1967 2013-05-02 22:45:27 <cut> oops i should read more
1968 2013-05-02 22:45:34 <grbgout> gmaxwell: holy crap that odroid link is tiny!
1969 2013-05-02 22:45:45 <jaakkos> grbgout: i haven't see any serious attempt at CL drivers outside AMD and NV dedicated GPUs...
1970 2013-05-02 22:45:57 <jaakkos> grbgout: intel hd graphics drivers are coming, but not quite there yet
1971 2013-05-02 22:45:58 <grbgout> jaakkos: that's a pity :\
1972 2013-05-02 22:45:58 <The_Fly> beagleboard looks good
1973 2013-05-02 22:46:23 <grbgout> The_Fly: yeah it does.... I'm about to get some buyer's remourse if I don't step away and get back to that aboriginal project, hehe.
1974 2013-05-02 22:46:30 <gmaxwell> cut: much faster however, the arm core on that device is about clock for clock 2x faster than the one in rpi, draws less power, and isn't cache starved.
1975 2013-05-02 22:46:30 <grbgout> It's only $45 too.
1976 2013-05-02 22:47:07 <grbgout> gmaxwell: how similar are their cpu's, if you're aware?  I mean, how difficult/easy to port code between them?
1977 2013-05-02 22:48:36 <grbgout> The beaglebone black and the Pi, I mean.
1978 2013-05-02 22:48:38 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1979 2013-05-02 22:49:54 <gmaxwell> grbgout: they're fully compatible (assuming you aren't using things like the additional DSPs in the omap in the beagleboard), only the internal microarchitecture is different.
1980 2013-05-02 22:50:01 <sipa> ;;blocks
1981 2013-05-02 22:50:02 <gribble> 234247
1982 2013-05-02 22:50:43 <grbgout> gmaxwell: well, so much for "I need this, too, to practice porting code...."
1983 2013-05-02 22:50:49 <sipa> uh-oh
1984 2013-05-02 22:51:15 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
1985 2013-05-02 22:51:24 <gmaxwell>     "blocks" : 234247,
1986 2013-05-02 22:51:41 <grbgout> sipa: ?
1987 2013-05-02 22:51:50 <sipa> Verifying last 288 blocks at level 3
1988 2013-05-02 22:51:50 <sipa> ERROR: CBlockUndo::ReadFromDisk() : checksum mismatch
1989 2013-05-02 22:51:50 <sipa> ERROR: VerifyDB() : *** found bad undo data at 234172, hash=000000000000009ce2b7399ec8a05fe661694780c62bc2bcffdfb74832254763
1990 2013-05-02 22:52:13 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1991 2013-05-02 22:52:20 <sipa> hmm, seems a bug in my build
1992 2013-05-02 22:52:23 <sipa> an older one works...
1993 2013-05-02 22:52:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: The fact that the Non-canonical rejections throw "ERROR" makes searching the logs harder.
1994 2013-05-02 22:53:27 <grbgout> Well, I'm off.
1995 2013-05-02 22:53:30 <grbgout> IanCormac: keep me posted.
1996 2013-05-02 22:53:41 <gmaxwell> 2013-05-02 22:14:31 ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : vin empty
1997 2013-05-02 22:53:43 <gmaxwell> :-/
1998 2013-05-02 22:54:13 Descry has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1999 2013-05-02 22:54:19 grbgout has quit (Quit: leaving)
2000 2013-05-02 22:59:18 santoscork has quit (Quit: Auto logout …)
2001 2013-05-02 22:59:52 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: :(
2002 2013-05-02 23:00:00 <IanCormac> Hey gmaxwell
2003 2013-05-02 23:00:04 CodesInChaos_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2004 2013-05-02 23:00:10 <IanCormac> You have Bitcoind running on a raspberry pi, right?
2005 2013-05-02 23:00:11 czaanja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2006 2013-05-02 23:00:35 * sipa considers the error he pasted more serious than gmaxwell's
2007 2013-05-02 23:00:38 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2008 2013-05-02 23:01:22 <jgarzik> sipa: disk data can be corrupted any time.  disks rot, in my humble opinion.
2009 2013-05-02 23:01:31 <sipa> jgarzik: but another build just works fine!
2010 2013-05-02 23:01:34 <sipa> on the same data
2011 2013-05-02 23:01:37 <jgarzik> sipa: but this vin-empty problem has been recurring
2012 2013-05-02 23:01:56 <jgarzik> sipa: seems to only impact recent versions, maybe just 0.8.1
2013 2013-05-02 23:02:04 <sipa> jgarzik: meh, rogue client?
2014 2013-05-02 23:02:18 <jgarzik> sipa: doesn't seem like it
2015 2013-05-02 23:02:56 <jgarzik> sipa: do you have any 'vin empty' in your debug.log?
2016 2013-05-02 23:03:13 <jaakkos> btw, is it possible in the bitcoin client, for a random bitflip happen at a very unfortunate time, messing up - say - the address to which change is supposed to be sent?
2017 2013-05-02 23:03:35 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, yes, quite a lot
2018 2013-05-02 23:04:10 duckybsd has joined
2019 2013-05-02 23:04:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: node here works fine. been running 2599+head with no issues. :-/
2020 2013-05-02 23:04:40 <gmaxwell> jaakkos: yep, currently.
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2022 2013-05-02 23:05:30 <jaakkos> i think that could be protected against
2023 2013-05-02 23:06:13 <gmaxwell> Sure, thus 'currently'.
2024 2013-05-02 23:06:32 <jaakkos> that would be a huge misfortune... let's hope no-one runs into it :)
2025 2013-05-02 23:06:42 <sipa> gmaxwell: bisecting
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2028 2013-05-02 23:09:59 <sytse> jaakkos: in theory the (developer) community could decide to fix it if it's like, 100kBTC ;-)
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2030 2013-05-02 23:10:36 <gmaxwell> It's quite unwise to have very large txouts for a number of reasons.
2031 2013-05-02 23:11:51 <gmaxwell> I thought I'd previously opened an issue for 'someday add a pass to double check outputs'.
2032 2013-05-02 23:11:51 <sytse> (not hard to prove by that person that he does have knowledge of the address with one bit flipped)
2033 2013-05-02 23:11:51 <sytse> *knowledge of the private key of
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2037 2013-05-02 23:12:58 <gmaxwell> sytse: when the private key is encrypted? :P
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2039 2013-05-02 23:13:31 <gmaxwell> but yes, checking that it at least thinks it can spend the change from the final signed transaction (and that the values are the expected ones) is a good idea.
2040 2013-05-02 23:13:58 <gmaxwell> though you can't prevent things like 'a bitflip has added 256 btc to the amount you're sending at the beginning of the output'
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2043 2013-05-02 23:16:12 <sytse> gmaxwell: I meant, when somebody did send 100kBTC to the wrong unspent address because of a bitflip, that person could prove to us that it at least was a mistake
2044 2013-05-02 23:16:24 <jaakkos> someone might try to introduce electromagnetic radiation in order to enable such corruptions :)
2045 2013-05-02 23:17:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: err, if the amounts are wrong like that, it won't be valid
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2047 2013-05-02 23:17:34 <sipa> sytse: by 'to us', you mean 'to everyone' ?
2048 2013-05-02 23:17:35 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: sure it will. what happens when the bitflip happens e.g. right after the gui.
2049 2013-05-02 23:17:40 <sytse> sipa: yes. The bitcoin community
2050 2013-05-02 23:17:45 <intrd> hello, i'm getting "socket.timeout: timed out" at eloipool log, anyone can help me to solve this?
2051 2013-05-02 23:17:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: great, it's my own key refactor that causes this weirdly unrelated hash error...
2052 2013-05-02 23:17:53 <gmaxwell> sytse: not likely.
2053 2013-05-02 23:18:11 <gmaxwell> sipa: stack corruption.
2054 2013-05-02 23:18:11 <sipa> sytse: i will not accept a reorg for such a reason
2055 2013-05-02 23:18:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: yup, my guess too :)
2056 2013-05-02 23:18:37 <sytse> sipa: I would agree, but.. if it's 100kBTC, dunno
2057 2013-05-02 23:18:58 <gmaxwell> sytse: "less supply for everyone: of course I don't 'believe' their claim!"
2058 2013-05-02 23:19:14 <sipa> sytse: even if it was 21M BTC
2059 2013-05-02 23:19:31 <sipa> reason: mightly slippery slope
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2061 2013-05-02 23:24:41 <gmaxwell> sytse: in such a case I think people will happily blame the victim, quite confident that they'd never be so foolish to suffer the same fate— especially since its in their financial interest to be unconvinced.
2062 2013-05-02 23:25:04 <matjeh> wouldn't the payload checksum in the header catch a bit flip in the output field(s)?
2063 2013-05-02 23:25:21 <matjeh> unless you have incredibly bad luck
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2065 2013-05-02 23:25:26 <gmaxwell> header?!
2066 2013-05-02 23:25:29 <gmaxwell> huh?!
2067 2013-05-02 23:26:30 <gmaxwell> matjeh: you enter in a value into a QT dialog, someplace between there and the transaction actually getting authored a bit flips and the value changes. "oops"  Until the system starts making you compute crc32 in your head and type that in, such an error can't be completely eliminated.
2068 2013-05-02 23:26:32 <Luke-Jr> intrd: latest bitcoind?
2069 2013-05-02 23:26:54 <gmaxwell> (at best you could hope to do is to have a "prompt me for txn involving over X amount" or the like)
2070 2013-05-02 23:28:17 <matjeh> enter it twice to half the chance :)
2071 2013-05-02 23:28:28 <sipa> no, square the chance
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2089 2013-05-02 23:33:54 <rdponticelli> Damn it! I never, ever more will send a bitcoin again. Scary flips...
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2091 2013-05-02 23:35:38 <The_Fly> lol
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2093 2013-05-02 23:37:40 <pjorrit> inb4 cryptoflippers steal your money
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2097 2013-05-02 23:42:54 <The_Fly> whats the largest ever single txout i wonder
2098 2013-05-02 23:43:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: fixed... stupid off-by-one
2099 2013-05-02 23:44:06 <ProfMac> pjorrit: cryptoflippers?
2100 2013-05-02 23:45:29 <jaakkos> cosmic rays be stealing your coins
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2104 2013-05-02 23:48:18 <sipa> clearly this off-by-one in my code was caused by a cosmic ray
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2106 2013-05-02 23:49:13 <The_Fly> ✔
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