1 2013-05-03 00:02:23 pawdog is now known as Zero07
   2 2013-05-03 00:10:27 Nothing4You has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
   3 2013-05-03 00:10:49 Nothing4You has joined
   4 2013-05-03 00:14:04 bwen has joined
   5 2013-05-03 00:14:33 mrkent has joined
   6 2013-05-03 00:15:01 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
   7 2013-05-03 00:15:02 <BTCOxygen> ;;ident BTCOxygem
   8 2013-05-03 00:15:02 <gribble> Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
   9 2013-05-03 00:15:03 <BTCOxygen> ;;ident BTCOxygen
  10 2013-05-03 00:15:04 <gribble> Nick 'BTCOxygen', with hostmask 'BTCOxygen!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen', is identified as user BTCOxygen, with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1LRwSzbnos6qKSTdTGDnaauYkkR9mT5SJd
  11 2013-05-03 00:15:06 <mrkent> Offering 0.2 BTC for simple goxtool script. PM me
  12 2013-05-03 00:15:44 canoon has joined
  13 2013-05-03 00:16:58 Chuky has quit (Quit: • IRcap • 8.71 •)
  14 2013-05-03 00:18:09 SirDefaced has joined
  15 2013-05-03 00:19:27 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  16 2013-05-03 00:29:26 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  17 2013-05-03 00:29:40 mappum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  18 2013-05-03 00:30:20 mappum has joined
  19 2013-05-03 00:31:47 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
  20 2013-05-03 00:32:59 daughterly has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  21 2013-05-03 00:35:33 stochasm has joined
  22 2013-05-03 00:39:23 FredEE has joined
  23 2013-05-03 00:41:12 bwen has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  24 2013-05-03 00:41:46 <syskk> getting this error with macdeploy: Warning: Could not detect Qt's path, skipping plugin deployment!
  25 2013-05-03 00:43:46 canoon has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
  26 2013-05-03 00:44:37 canoon has joined
  27 2013-05-03 00:45:02 dvide has joined
  28 2013-05-03 00:45:31 Zero07 is now known as meefozio
  29 2013-05-03 00:46:05 macboz has joined
  30 2013-05-03 00:46:08 owowo is now known as BTCGuildCoin
  31 2013-05-03 00:46:29 scintill has joined
  32 2013-05-03 00:46:46 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
  33 2013-05-03 00:47:41 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  34 2013-05-03 00:48:22 toffoo has joined
  35 2013-05-03 00:50:20 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  36 2013-05-03 00:50:58 impulse has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  37 2013-05-03 00:54:28 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  38 2013-05-03 00:56:34 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  39 2013-05-03 01:00:36 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  40 2013-05-03 01:00:41 meefozio is now known as Zero7|meefozio
  41 2013-05-03 01:02:05 stochasm has joined
  42 2013-05-03 01:04:20 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
  43 2013-05-03 01:07:18 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  44 2013-05-03 01:07:52 scripting has left ()
  45 2013-05-03 01:08:41 seeingidog__ has joined
  46 2013-05-03 01:09:06 breakbea_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  47 2013-05-03 01:14:51 Faradayy has joined
  48 2013-05-03 01:15:17 D34TH has joined
  49 2013-05-03 01:15:40 sacrelege has joined
  50 2013-05-03 01:18:37 stochasm has joined
  51 2013-05-03 01:22:39 rafadefine has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  52 2013-05-03 01:23:39 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  53 2013-05-03 01:25:20 CrypticSquared has joined
  54 2013-05-03 01:27:11 rafadefine has joined
  55 2013-05-03 01:28:14 sacredch1o has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  56 2013-05-03 01:28:14 msiren_ has joined
  57 2013-05-03 01:28:37 sacredchao has joined
  58 2013-05-03 01:29:34 msiren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  59 2013-05-03 01:29:43 imsaguy_s has joined
  60 2013-05-03 01:30:15 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  61 2013-05-03 01:30:31 SkillsToShow_ has joined
  62 2013-05-03 01:32:46 BTCGuildCoin is now known as owowo
  63 2013-05-03 01:33:19 SkillsToShow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  64 2013-05-03 01:35:19 sanchaz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  65 2013-05-03 01:35:23 resinate has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  66 2013-05-03 01:36:19 nova90 has joined
  67 2013-05-03 01:36:19 atweiden has joined
  68 2013-05-03 01:37:24 Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  69 2013-05-03 01:37:36 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  70 2013-05-03 01:39:36 nova907767 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  71 2013-05-03 01:40:42 gagecolton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  72 2013-05-03 01:43:04 <gmaxwell> sipa: I guess this suggests a pulltester improvement.
  73 2013-05-03 01:43:38 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
  74 2013-05-03 01:43:39 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
  75 2013-05-03 01:44:50 bitit has joined
  76 2013-05-03 01:46:45 whiterabbit has joined
  77 2013-05-03 01:49:43 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  78 2013-05-03 01:49:44 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
  79 2013-05-03 01:54:44 nizeguy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  80 2013-05-03 01:54:55 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  81 2013-05-03 01:55:21 owowo is now known as BTCGuildCoin
  82 2013-05-03 01:56:09 mortikia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  83 2013-05-03 02:06:25 g0thX has joined
  84 2013-05-03 02:06:32 franl has joined
  85 2013-05-03 02:09:18 SwapperMall has joined
  86 2013-05-03 02:09:23 <scintill> gmaxwell: does your P2SH^2 proposal require deprecating any current address/txn types?
  87 2013-05-03 02:11:40 <jchp> wait are you accepting proposals for P2SH changes? because i have one :-P
  88 2013-05-03 02:12:26 <gmaxwell> depends on which form of it you use. If you keep the same transactions then yes, if you make the txn look like HASH160 HASH160 then no, but that requires a softforking network change to actually execute those scripts.
  89 2013-05-03 02:12:38 <scintill> jchp: I'm trying to wrap my head around what it is exactly, but I'm referring to http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.bitcoin.devel/1996
  90 2013-05-03 02:12:46 <jchp> gmaxwell: what's your proposed changes?
  91 2013-05-03 02:13:00 <jchp> oh following link
  92 2013-05-03 02:13:41 mortikia has joined
  93 2013-05-03 02:13:43 <scintill> has there been more discussion than that thread?
  94 2013-05-03 02:16:46 <gmaxwell> bits and pieces, seems people aren't super excited by it right now
  95 2013-05-03 02:16:55 <jchp> oh. if the core team is okay with making changes, i'd prefer a new standard transaction type which provides better security for multisig transactions by strictly defining a P2SH multisig transaction (so that non-conformant scriptsigs are rejected) and preventing length extension attacks by strictly defining the amount of keys (by defining the m-of-n and then using OP_2DROP to make it backwards compatible)
  96 2013-05-03 02:16:59 <scintill> gmaxwell: ok. I'm still not really following, but that's more my fault than yours. it seems like you would have to ban the txns we have today, or else people can just keep embedding the way they are now
  97 2013-05-03 02:17:00 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure if people don't care about the issue it solves, don't think its work it, or don't care.
  98 2013-05-03 02:17:43 <gmaxwell> jchp: if people can make second preimages of sha256 then bitcoin is totally busted in about 15 ways. What are you trying to solve there?
  99 2013-05-03 02:18:27 <scintill> frankly, I think when the story of the latest embeds hits the news, it could become a big deal fast. I hope I'm wrong
 100 2013-05-03 02:18:36 <jchp> let's say sha256 is broken, after a couple days the software/new-blocks is changed to a different algorithm
 101 2013-05-03 02:18:46 <jchp> what about the P2SH coins?
 102 2013-05-03 02:18:49 <gmaxwell> scintill: if you make it so the transactions people create look like push hash160 hash160  then you can keep the address, the txn one the wire get a different form.
 103 2013-05-03 02:19:13 <gmaxwell> you can't change, all the addresses are broken, ecdsa is broken, etc.
 104 2013-05-03 02:19:31 <jchp> if you strictly define a new tranasction type e.g. 160bithash 2 3 OP_2DROP OP_STRICTCHECKSIG_ORWAHTEVERYOUWANTTOCALLIT, it wouldn't ahve that problem
 105 2013-05-03 02:19:58 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: miners won't be able to pull transactions out of reorg'd-away blocks with this
 106 2013-05-03 02:20:06 <gmaxwell> jchp: and the whole point of p2sh is so that the sender has no idea of what the details of the script are (because its the the recievers business alone)
 107 2013-05-03 02:20:11 <jchp> it'll buy you enough time because they haven't reversed ECDSA keysigning yet (asumed)
 108 2013-05-03 02:20:31 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yes, they would have if they accepted the block in the first place.
 109 2013-05-03 02:20:50 <gmaxwell> jchp: ecdsa requires sha256 preimage resistance or otherwise you can freely rebind any existing signatures.
 110 2013-05-03 02:21:50 <jchp> but if you reject blocks that don't conform to the expected scriptsig AND *verify* the ECDSA sig then the risk is much more minimized compared to existing implementaiton in the event SHA256 is broken
 111 2013-05-03 02:22:00 B0g4r7 has joined
 112 2013-05-03 02:22:32 <gmaxwell> jchp: why not specify a second hash function that has to be in it? or three or six?
 113 2013-05-03 02:22:34 <jchp> and if you use OP_2DROP it'd "look" pretty much the same as existing P2SH
 114 2013-05-03 02:23:26 <jchp> for older versions
 115 2013-05-03 02:23:36 <gmaxwell> (not to mention that the pubkey encoding is has multiple variations)
 116 2013-05-03 02:23:41 <scintill> gmaxwell: all I'm getting out of that is that the address is compatible, but if the same tx types of today are allowed, I don't see what's stopping them from still embedding that way
 117 2013-05-03 02:23:44 drapetomano_ has joined
 118 2013-05-03 02:24:21 <gmaxwell> scintill: it can choose addresses compatible, txn types change,  or addresses incompatible and txn types stay the same.
 119 2013-05-03 02:24:39 <gmaxwell> scintill: it could be done either way— but duh, sure of course there is a change.
 120 2013-05-03 02:24:55 <jchp> well my problem is with what happens when SHA256 breaks, there's plausible deniability that the script could be anything. if you strictly define a type, there isn't as much wiggle room. the overwhelming use case is multisig
 121 2013-05-03 02:25:04 <jchp> so why not define a multisig P2SH that is incredibly strict?
 122 2013-05-03 02:25:05 myirc is now known as bbowles
 123 2013-05-03 02:25:31 <jchp> so it'll remove plausible deniability and require ECDSA signing in the event it occurs
 124 2013-05-03 02:25:32 <gmaxwell> jchp: becase you can just do multisig without p2sh at all if you are will to dump a bunch of complexity on the sender.
 125 2013-05-03 02:25:39 <jchp> multisig is too big
 126 2013-05-03 02:25:47 <gmaxwell> jchp: it will not, however, because you can rebind the signatures.
 127 2013-05-03 02:25:57 <jchp> and doesn't offer SHA256 benefits if ECDSA is broken
 128 2013-05-03 02:26:25 <gmaxwell> and you're limiting it to a particular narrow transaction type and giving people a reason to be unwilling to send to some kinds of addresses.
 129 2013-05-03 02:26:32 <jchp> how can you rebind the signatures if you're strict about the keysigning?
 130 2013-05-03 02:26:49 <scintill> gmaxwell: oh. well, I'll keep reading and thinking
 131 2013-05-03 02:26:51 franl has quit (Quit: O Elbereth!  Gilthoniel!  We still remember ...)
 132 2013-05-03 02:26:53 <jspilman> For P2SH^2 to be the 'ultimate solution', you have to ban the other scriptPubKey types?
 133 2013-05-03 02:27:07 <gmaxwell> jchp: because you could stuff arbitrary data in txn _outputs_ to get your second preimage.
 134 2013-05-03 02:27:12 <jchp> yes, sometimes limits are good. the use case for most people is multisig, use current P2SH if you want something weird, i'm not opposed to using P2SH currently if there was a more strict multisig alternate
 135 2013-05-03 02:27:50 <jchp> but that assumes for transactions AFTER SHA256 is broken
 136 2013-05-03 02:28:01 <gmaxwell> What?
 137 2013-05-03 02:28:07 dust-otc has joined
 138 2013-05-03 02:28:11 Aurigae1 has joined
 139 2013-05-03 02:28:13 <jchp> stuffing data doesn't help for old transactions, no?
 140 2013-05-03 02:28:18 <Aurigae1> guys, update your "sudo" http://1337day.com/exploit/description/20717
 141 2013-05-03 02:28:28 <Aurigae1> lol
 142 2013-05-03 02:28:42 guruvan has joined
 143 2013-05-03 02:29:25 <Aurigae1> nginx not verified yet http://1337day.com/exploit/description/20698
 144 2013-05-03 02:29:31 <gmaxwell> jchp: You are assuming an attacker controlled content second preimage attack on sha256. If that exists someone can take any signature they see and rebind it to apply to a transaction with different outputs. (potentially filling one of the outputs with garbage to make the attack work)
 145 2013-05-03 02:30:21 <jspilman> I guess I don't follow "with this minor change there is _no_ non-prunable location for users to cram data into except values."
 146 2013-05-03 02:30:24 <jchp> let's say there's a P2SH txout that's a year old, and there are many different transaction types used so there's plausible deniability, it's functionally impossible to know who owns the coins. if you defined a strict transaction type (implied ECDSA checking), it'd be a LOT more difficult and a lot easier to prove who owned the coins
 147 2013-05-03 02:30:39 <gmaxwell> jspilman: assuming transactions of this form were required.
 148 2013-05-03 02:30:48 <jspilman> ack
 149 2013-05-03 02:31:26 <jchp> the use case would be the confusing during a possible emergency rollback period
 150 2013-05-03 02:31:30 <jchp> confusion
 151 2013-05-03 02:31:35 <gmaxwell> jchp: stop. We assume that an attacker cannot produce second preimages of sha256. Under that assumption there is no "plausible deniability".
 152 2013-05-03 02:31:54 <gmaxwell> jchp: If you give up that assumption then any signature can be rebound, no matter how you constrain signatures.
 153 2013-05-03 02:31:55 HM has joined
 154 2013-05-03 02:33:48 HM2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 155 2013-05-03 02:33:53 <jchp> i don't like that assumption. i'd be much more comfortable if it were possible to conclusively prove someone owned a key because the rebound signature wouldn't work because they couldn't get a proper ECDSA sig easily
 156 2013-05-03 02:34:42 <gmaxwell> jchp: the signature wouldn't change, they'd change the transaction to one where the data being signed has the same hash
 157 2013-05-03 02:35:00 <gmaxwell> by stuffing their magic data in an _output_ which is free form no matter how you specify the script.
 158 2013-05-03 02:35:06 <jchp> yes, so they steal coins afterwards
 159 2013-05-03 02:35:19 <jchp> i'm assuming a rollback in the event SHA256 is broken
 160 2013-05-03 02:35:22 mapppum has joined
 161 2013-05-03 02:35:26 SwedFTP_ has joined
 162 2013-05-03 02:35:40 <gmaxwell> lol. it still makes _no_ _sense_.
 163 2013-05-03 02:36:00 <Aurigae1> LOL sha256
 164 2013-05-03 02:36:08 <gmaxwell> If you've ever spent from an address, regardless of the type, then a sha256-second-preimage-creating-attacker can rebind the signatures.
 165 2013-05-03 02:37:22 dawei101 has joined
 166 2013-05-03 02:37:31 <jchp> my point is if a new P2SH transaction type with a strict scriptsig type existed, you can prove who owned the keys substantailly eaiser without plausible deniability. i don't see how that's not true
 167 2013-05-03 02:38:02 <jchp> the assumption is you don't spend from an address you've already used
 168 2013-05-03 02:38:13 quaz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 169 2013-05-03 02:38:28 GordonG3kko has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 170 2013-05-03 02:38:34 <gmaxwell> not to mention that if there is a free pubkey, (e.g. N<M) then you have >=256-512 bits of free data that you can set even in your strict encoding.
 171 2013-05-03 02:38:51 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 172 2013-05-03 02:38:51 SwedFTP has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 173 2013-05-03 02:38:52 krator44 has joined
 174 2013-05-03 02:38:56 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 175 2013-05-03 02:39:07 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 176 2013-05-03 02:39:10 quaz0r has joined
 177 2013-05-03 02:39:32 <debiantoruser> Greeings
 178 2013-05-03 02:39:49 <jchp> yes, but that "free data" has to be VALID ECDSA
 179 2013-05-03 02:39:51 <debiantoruser> i'm very noob in this field, could some body provide me with database size
 180 2013-05-03 02:40:09 <debiantoruser> i'm on ubuntu 13.04, there is a bitcoind v 8
 181 2013-05-03 02:40:12 <jchp> in the sense that it must be able to know the private key -> public key
 182 2013-05-03 02:40:22 <gmaxwell> jchp: The data there isn't ECDSA it's an ECC point, and virtually all 256 bit values are valid ecc points.
 183 2013-05-03 02:40:45 <gmaxwell> jchp: no if N<M they don't need to sign with it.
 184 2013-05-03 02:40:47 <debiantoruser> ii  bitcoind                                       0.8.1-1                      amd64                        peer-to-peer network based digital currency - daemon
 185 2013-05-03 02:41:04 <gmaxwell> And if you suddenly required it, then many transactions would never be spendable.
 186 2013-05-03 02:41:26 <gmaxwell> (because some third party holds that extra key, or it was already not really a key but extra data like petertodd's timestamps)
 187 2013-05-03 02:41:34 execut3 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 188 2013-05-03 02:41:58 shesek has joined
 189 2013-05-03 02:42:00 <scintill> debiantoruser: what database size?
 190 2013-05-03 02:42:34 <jchp> ah sorry read that wrong, so your situation is about 2-of-3 has free bytes to play with
 191 2013-05-03 02:42:54 <debiantoruser> I have meet theme about, version 0.8 have solved this by another database version, so there i should have only 1Gb insted 8Gb of current database, but my default settings are have no change anything, and anyway i'm download full of chains and get the same >5Gb database on my harddrive
 192 2013-05-03 02:42:59 bitit has joined
 193 2013-05-03 02:43:24 <jchp> well at least 2-of-2 would be protected and you could reduce risk by having the rollback period sign only n=m transactions for a week hypothetically
 194 2013-05-03 02:43:42 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 195 2013-05-03 02:43:46 <debiantoruser> i'm read this fucking manual (ubuntu 13.04) but can't find anything
 196 2013-05-03 02:43:48 <jchp> err rollback period only allow transactions having n=m
 197 2013-05-03 02:44:08 <jchp> e.g. a 2-of-3 transaction would be valid if it included all sigs
 198 2013-05-03 02:45:00 <jchp> i know this sounds crazy and paranoid, but it's something that I think should be at least considered? considering that the primary use case for this stuff is multisig in the first place, why not just strictly define multisig...
 199 2013-05-03 02:45:03 <debiantoruser> scintill, if you are on ubuntu and use latest version of bitcoin daemon, what size of database do you have?
 200 2013-05-03 02:45:23 <Aurigae1> lol, blockchain is the new wikileaks, thats so epic
 201 2013-05-03 02:45:27 HM has joined
 202 2013-05-03 02:46:18 lolcookie has joined
 203 2013-05-03 02:46:22 <gmaxwell> jchp: Because part of the justification of this was getting the send out of the business of having any knoweldge or say in the recieving script.
 204 2013-05-03 02:46:28 <gmaxwell> s/send/sender/
 205 2013-05-03 02:47:43 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: the final size should be about 8gb or so.
 206 2013-05-03 02:48:09 <jchp> but that was only part of the justification. the primary impetus was making multisig easy (after a bunch of coins were stolen). you could easily define current P2SH as "00" as part of the address or whatever for the n-of-m portion
 207 2013-05-03 02:48:11 <gmaxwell> jchp: you might as well suggest that it also stuff in one word of the sha3 of the script or whatever.
 208 2013-05-03 02:48:23 <debiantoruser> @gmaxwell, but i'm hear that version 0.8 of bitcoind have solve this by other container method, isn't it?
 209 2013-05-03 02:48:36 <scintill> debiantoruser: I'm on linux mint, derivative of ubuntu. I've got v0.8.1-beta, I think the generic linux prebuilt, not debian package. it takes 8.2G for the blocks
 210 2013-05-03 02:49:50 <debiantoruser> scintill, i'm now on google searching, i have brute about hundres of pages, lookin for this theme, but i read that 0.8v give less than 1Gb, that's why i'm on -dev channel
 211 2013-05-03 02:49:53 <gmaxwell> jchp: Yes, and we will not be giving up that flexibility because of some unjustified fears about sha256 which would undermine almost every other part of the system if they were true. (nevermind the fact that IIRC no modern hash function has ever had a sufficiently free second preimage attack to actually pull off what you're describing)
 212 2013-05-03 02:50:00 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: you've been misinformed.
 213 2013-05-03 02:50:14 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: what page says that?
 214 2013-05-03 02:50:24 lolcookie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 215 2013-05-03 02:50:25 <debiantoruser> @gmaxwell, i'm in looking
 216 2013-05-03 02:50:44 <jchp> i'm not saying *remove* current P2SH, i'm saying add a new strict type.
 217 2013-05-03 02:51:12 lolcookie has joined
 218 2013-05-03 02:51:24 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 219 2013-05-03 02:51:28 canoon has joined
 220 2013-05-03 02:51:37 <gmaxwell> jchp: feel free to propose it to the list, but I expect you'll recieve the same response you've recieved from me.
 221 2013-05-03 02:51:52 <jchp> would you be opposed if i just used OP_2 OP_3 OP_2DROP OP_CHECKSIG ?
 222 2013-05-03 02:52:02 <jchp> without permission?
 223 2013-05-03 02:52:18 <jchp> to represent taht this is a 2 of 3 transaction?
 224 2013-05-03 02:52:25 <gmaxwell> jchp: uh. that won't actually accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.
 225 2013-05-03 02:52:34 <jchp> it won't because it's not enforced
 226 2013-05-03 02:53:52 <jchp> err sorry
 227 2013-05-03 02:53:52 <gmaxwell> jchp: even in your crazy case you could in the event of that break priortize 'minimal' (e.g. sane looking, canonical types) after the break.
 228 2013-05-03 02:53:59 <jchp> i meant in P2SH format
 229 2013-05-03 02:54:01 <gmaxwell> without crapping anything up with requirenments.
 230 2013-05-03 02:54:14 <gmaxwell> e.g. allow 1of 1 first.. then 1 of 2 then ... ... etc.
 231 2013-05-03 02:54:45 <gmaxwell> jchp: in any case, feel free to take it to the list. But I currently think this sounds like a worse than not-useful idea and would oppose it.
 232 2013-05-03 02:55:04 * gmaxwell out &
 233 2013-05-03 02:55:19 <jchp> but that assumes everyone is paying attention during the transition period. this would have the benefit of having 2-of-2 transactions be more confident after the fact. i'll take it offline sorry
 234 2013-05-03 02:55:44 <debiantoruser> my qestion: is there anywho who know how to reduce size of database bitcoind(linux) from current 8Gb to less than 1Gb, or howany reduce?
 235 2013-05-03 02:56:04 <gmaxwell> yea, sure, and it could include a sha3 of it too... and a md5 too and .. if you're not willing to reason from a concrete attack attack model then there is no end.
 236 2013-05-03 02:56:10 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: there isn't a way.
 237 2013-05-03 02:57:01 fanquake has joined
 238 2013-05-03 02:57:04 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 239 2013-05-03 02:57:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: dare I mention that this P2SH^2 idea wouldn't require ANY fork (not even softfork) if BIP 17 had been adopted..?
 240 2013-05-03 02:57:56 HM has joined
 241 2013-05-03 02:59:55 fiesh has joined
 242 2013-05-03 03:01:19 resinate has joined
 243 2013-05-03 03:05:01 X-Scale has joined
 244 2013-05-03 03:05:16 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 245 2013-05-03 03:05:26 Zero7 is now known as meefozio!~meefozio@c-98-246-195-54.hsd1.or.comcast.net|meefozio
 246 2013-05-03 03:06:03 Siskiyou has joined
 247 2013-05-03 03:08:31 RBecker is now known as rbecker
 248 2013-05-03 03:08:38 Hasimir_ has joined
 249 2013-05-03 03:08:46 Hasimir_ is now known as Guest56297
 250 2013-05-03 03:09:42 Diapolis has joined
 251 2013-05-03 03:10:38 MAN0liYOU has joined
 252 2013-05-03 03:11:02 MAN0liYOU is now known as Guest77473
 253 2013-05-03 03:11:19 Hasimir- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 254 2013-05-03 03:11:53 Guest77473 is now known as M4n0l1y0u
 255 2013-05-03 03:14:28 Diapolis has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 256 2013-05-03 03:15:09 richcollins has joined
 257 2013-05-03 03:19:44 ericy has joined
 258 2013-05-03 03:21:34 ashman3 has joined
 259 2013-05-03 03:21:46 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 260 2013-05-03 03:22:37 ashman3 has joined
 261 2013-05-03 03:22:39 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 262 2013-05-03 03:22:40 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 263 2013-05-03 03:24:39 ashman3 has joined
 264 2013-05-03 03:24:52 Faradayy has quit ()
 265 2013-05-03 03:24:59 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 266 2013-05-03 03:25:20 metabyte has joined
 267 2013-05-03 03:26:07 ashman3 has joined
 268 2013-05-03 03:26:57 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 269 2013-05-03 03:27:42 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 270 2013-05-03 03:28:19 ashman3 has joined
 271 2013-05-03 03:28:58 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 272 2013-05-03 03:30:10 BTCGuildCoin is now known as owowo
 273 2013-05-03 03:30:10 lolcookie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 274 2013-05-03 03:30:27 FredEE has joined
 275 2013-05-03 03:33:04 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 276 2013-05-03 03:33:19 krator44 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 277 2013-05-03 03:34:04 krator44 has joined
 278 2013-05-03 03:34:16 ashman3 has joined
 279 2013-05-03 03:34:35 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 280 2013-05-03 03:35:11 ashman3 has joined
 281 2013-05-03 03:38:23 CrypticS_ has joined
 282 2013-05-03 03:39:55 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 283 2013-05-03 03:40:08 ashman3 has joined
 284 2013-05-03 03:41:09 ralphthe1inja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 285 2013-05-03 03:41:50 CrypticSquared has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 286 2013-05-03 03:42:54 SirDefaced has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 287 2013-05-03 03:45:26 canoon has joined
 288 2013-05-03 03:45:49 M4n0l1y0u has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 289 2013-05-03 03:52:12 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
 290 2013-05-03 03:57:07 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 291 2013-05-03 03:57:19 [7] has joined
 292 2013-05-03 03:58:04 Diapolis has joined
 293 2013-05-03 04:00:56 OneFixt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 294 2013-05-03 04:01:15 OneFixt has joined
 295 2013-05-03 04:01:23 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 296 2013-05-03 04:04:56 <atweiden> Do multisig addresses have any weaknesses that could conceivably make them less safe to use as a long term store of value vs. regular addresses?
 297 2013-05-03 04:06:14 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 298 2013-05-03 04:06:24 banghouse3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 299 2013-05-03 04:06:57 phma has joined
 300 2013-05-03 04:08:06 mollison has joined
 301 2013-05-03 04:08:23 <debiantoruser> @gmaxwell, i'm not shure but i have meet such document that v0.8 have this great option to store less data than older versions, do you shure that there is no way?, i'm guess but i'm force about 100 pages of google for that....
 302 2013-05-03 04:09:24 banghouse has joined
 303 2013-05-03 04:09:55 MAN0liYOU has joined
 304 2013-05-03 04:10:19 MAN0liYOU is now known as Guest94352
 305 2013-05-03 04:11:17 johnsoft1 has joined
 306 2013-05-03 04:12:38 ThomasV has joined
 307 2013-05-03 04:14:08 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 308 2013-05-03 04:15:51 <scintill> @debiantoruser it may be on an experimental branch somewhere, or planned, but I don't think such a thing is ready-made right now
 309 2013-05-03 04:17:05 FabianB_ has joined
 310 2013-05-03 04:18:10 <scintill> @atweiden well, if it was a 1-of-2 multisig it means there are now twice as many private keys that could be compromised to steal the coins. a 2-of-2, 2-of-3, 3-of-3 should be safer than a regular address
 311 2013-05-03 04:18:18 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 312 2013-05-03 04:18:37 Siskiyou has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 313 2013-05-03 04:18:41 Diapolis has joined
 314 2013-05-03 04:18:47 <debiantoruser> mb this https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1599
 315 2013-05-03 04:18:50 <gmaxwell> scintill: no such thing exists at all.
 316 2013-05-03 04:18:52 canoon has joined
 317 2013-05-03 04:20:01 lolcookie has joined
 318 2013-05-03 04:20:07 <debiantoruser> 13.05.03-10:52:17 < scintill> @debiantoruser, why do you joking me with @?
 319 2013-05-03 04:20:20 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: it can be done without a fork but with a different address type. (you give people a new address type that gives them the intermediate state in the hash 160 and they complete the ripemd160 part)
 320 2013-05-03 04:20:43 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: he's just directing a message at you.
 321 2013-05-03 04:21:01 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: a longer address, then?
 322 2013-05-03 04:21:07 <scintill> debiantoruser: I don't know what you mean, I just accidentally copied the @ because you did it earlier, I don't know if it's standard on irc, but yeah, I was directing to you
 323 2013-05-03 04:21:39 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: in that case, yes.
 324 2013-05-03 04:21:41 <scintill> debiantoruser: no, that's just discussion about what happens if the blockchain files get too large for the filesystem. it doesn't apply to v0.8
 325 2013-05-03 04:22:25 EvilPete_ is now known as EvilPete
 326 2013-05-03 04:22:43 <gmaxwell> 0.8 does actually reduce storage by a few hundred megabytes if you don't enable txindex as a side effect of the database restructuring, but thats not what debiantoruser was asking for.
 327 2013-05-03 04:22:52 <debiantoruser> Am i rightly understand that you folkd don't know any alfa versions of bitcoind to reduce size of database size? And so on, don't know good issue to programm this feature?
 328 2013-05-03 04:23:27 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: What are you trying to accomplish?
 329 2013-05-03 04:23:48 <debiantoruser> I try to find the solution
 330 2013-05-03 04:24:32 <debiantoruser> e.g. i'm not see reason to keep more than last 100 blocks
 331 2013-05-03 04:25:19 <scintill> debiantoruser: if someone sent you some coins that were given to them earlier than 100 blocks ago, you won't be able to verify it
 332 2013-05-03 04:25:59 <gmaxwell> scintill: thats not the case.
 333 2013-05-03 04:26:31 <debiantoruser> wha about another database types, with more powerfull and todays archiver system, i' don'tknow, like lzma?
 334 2013-05-03 04:26:31 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: because you need to be able to handle reorginizations and serve blocks to your peers in order to parcipate as a full node on the network.
 335 2013-05-03 04:26:50 <scintill> gmaxwell: heh, ok. bitcoind can really handle that?
 336 2013-05-03 04:26:55 duSn has joined
 337 2013-05-03 04:27:41 <debiantoruser> 8 Gb - this is fucked up
 338 2013-05-03 04:27:43 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: In the future it will be possible to further reduce the storage on some nodes but this requires changes to the p2p protocol and software doesn't exist yet.
 339 2013-05-03 04:27:57 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: on what kind of system do you not have enough storage that that isn't an issue?!
 340 2013-05-03 04:28:10 <gmaxwell> er, is an issue.
 341 2013-05-03 04:28:20 SkillsToShow_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 342 2013-05-03 04:28:44 <gmaxwell> scintill: The blocks are only used for feeding other nodes and reorganization, never for validation since 0.8.
 343 2013-05-03 04:28:47 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I have a netbook :P
 344 2013-05-03 04:29:32 <debiantoruser> am i right that bitcoin dev team in the fron of other coins type, like namecoin or litecoin, or more than, devcoin? And new implementations would be here newer than anywhere?
 345 2013-05-03 04:30:16 <gmaxwell> there is basically no active development for other coins at all.
 346 2013-05-03 04:30:34 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 347 2013-05-03 04:30:42 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: you've still not told me what your application is where the storage is an issue for you.
 348 2013-05-03 04:31:06 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 349 2013-05-03 04:31:23 <scintill> gmaxwell: oh. so you would have to sync all the way through to build up utxo, but could discard the old blocks? I'm not seeing an option to do that, unless you can just manually delete the files and bitcoind will cope
 350 2013-05-03 04:31:54 <gmaxwell> scintill: I've just spent the last N minutes telling debiantoruser that there is no such option. :(  How have I managed to confuse you so?
 351 2013-05-03 04:32:24 SkillsToShow has joined
 352 2013-05-03 04:33:50 <debiantoruser> @gmaxwell, my hard drive keep 9 types of coins, i wait for first(bitcoind team) to solve this problem, to reduce 50Gb of disk space, you know...
 353 2013-05-03 04:34:28 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: 50 gb?!
 354 2013-05-03 04:35:04 tcatm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 355 2013-05-03 04:35:14 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: Go bother one of those worthless coins to take less space.
 356 2013-05-03 04:35:20 tcatm has joined
 357 2013-05-03 04:35:20 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
 358 2013-05-03 04:35:20 tcatm has joined
 359 2013-05-03 04:35:36 <gmaxwell> Perhaps one might even make a useful contribution to the ecosystem... (HA)
 360 2013-05-03 04:35:43 <scintill> gmaxwell: you told me blocks aren't needed for validation, making it sound like discarding them was an option. also that blocks were mostly needed for reorgs and seeding others. I guess this does sound silly in context of you telling him there's absolutely no way, but that was my thought process
 361 2013-05-03 04:36:14 mollison has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 362 2013-05-03 04:36:40 <debiantoruser> 168M ppcoin/.ppcoin 374M devcoin/.devcoin 451M ixcoin/.ixcoin 489M bitcoin/.bitcoin 848M namecoin/.namecoin 1.5G litecoin/.litecoin 5.1G i0coin/.i0coin
 363 2013-05-03 04:36:42 <gmaxwell> scintill: Yea, I see what you though. We're certantly moving in the direction to make fractional storage possible. But it requires more code (like handling the case when there is a reorg beyond the data you have), and changes to the p2p protocol so you can find nodes that have the blocks you need.
 364 2013-05-03 04:36:58 <gmaxwell> i0coin is 5.1G 0_o lol
 365 2013-05-03 04:37:29 <debiantoruser> bitcoind > 8 Gb, i'm fetch now for a newer database
 366 2013-05-03 04:37:33 <Luke-Jr> debiantoruser: bitcoin has already provided plenty of innovation. ask the scamcoins where their innovation is
 367 2013-05-03 04:37:42 <debiantoruser> there way, bitcoin - is a larger one
 368 2013-05-03 04:37:53 nanotube has joined
 369 2013-05-03 04:38:03 <warren> gmaxwell: spam?
 370 2013-05-03 04:38:06 <gmaxwell> I wonder if you owned all the i0coins if you could sell them for the amount it costs one computer to store that 5.1GB data.
 371 2013-05-03 04:38:20 <Luke-Jr> lol
 372 2013-05-03 04:40:04 <gmaxwell> in any case .168+.374+.451+.489+.848+1.5+5.1+8 ~= 16.9 ... far less than 50. 16.9 is about $0.74 in spinning disk storage.
 373 2013-05-03 04:40:31 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: you've used far more than $0.74 in your own and other people's time asking about this... :P
 374 2013-05-03 04:40:35 <scintill> gmaxwell: makes sense. though wouldn't a reorg larger than even a few hundred MB be pretty unlikely, and there'd be worse problems than lite clients having a hard time verifying?
 375 2013-05-03 04:42:22 <gmaxwell> scintill: a reorg is unlikely, but making it a weakness would make it a potentially attractive attack in and of itself (do X computation and don't even rip anyone off .. and the network is dead). Why add a weakness when you don't have to?   And the finding nodes has fairly little to do with lite clients— if you can't find nodes with block you can potentially never add a new node to the network.
 376 2013-05-03 04:42:37 <gmaxwell> s/with block/with blocks/
 377 2013-05-03 04:44:06 <duSn> is bitcoind the _exact_ same code as qt-bitcoin without the gui?
 378 2013-05-03 04:44:40 <gmaxwell> duSn: exact same? no. Some of the defaults are different.
 379 2013-05-03 04:45:23 ericy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 380 2013-05-03 04:45:32 johnsoft has joined
 381 2013-05-03 04:45:43 <duSn> i've been looking on google for what might be different - is there a url for the different defaults?
 382 2013-05-03 04:45:47 ashman3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 383 2013-05-03 04:45:51 stretchwarren has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
 384 2013-05-03 04:45:53 <duSn> in man?
 385 2013-05-03 04:47:04 johnsoft1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 386 2013-05-03 04:47:08 <gmaxwell> duSn: bitcoin-qt uses upnp by default and doesn't have the rpc server enabled by default. Thats all I'm aware of.
 387 2013-05-03 04:47:58 <duSn> thank you very much :)
 388 2013-05-03 04:48:17 <debiantoruser> 16.9 - is a 16 new pirate bay movies, i'm not like to keep that storage space for a another data
 389 2013-05-03 04:49:49 <gmaxwell> debiantoruser: then perhaps you should delete some worthless altcoins, or convince their developers to do something useful for a change.
 390 2013-05-03 04:50:20 <debiantoruser> and i'm not preach the pirating, but 16Gb - is a great volume, i'm really think to get another one,two scam coins on my board (:
 391 2013-05-03 04:51:33 <debiantoruser> i'm ask again about moving to other type of database, with new archive(like lzma) or something else, light, powerfull, etc, nobody really interesting in this?
 392 2013-05-03 04:52:12 <gmaxwell> blockchain data is not highly compressable. all lzma is going to give you is 2:1ish at enormous cpu cost to decode.
 393 2013-05-03 04:53:14 <debiantoruser> what about to delete all those blocks that already not in use, that coins are spended to another?
 394 2013-05-03 04:54:19 XRPTrader2 has quit (Quit: XRPTrader2)
 395 2013-05-03 04:54:32 dvide has quit ()
 396 2013-05-03 04:54:37 <debiantoruser> i'm repeat my .bitcoin directory large than 8Gb, it should n't be that for satoshi documents too
 397 2013-05-03 04:54:40 meefozio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 398 2013-05-03 04:54:52 meefozio has joined
 399 2013-05-03 04:55:29 <Luke-Jr> debiantoruser: 8 GB is nothing
 400 2013-05-03 04:55:43 <debiantoruser> i have only 250Gb SATA-3
 401 2013-05-03 04:55:55 <debiantoruser> 8Gb -is huge amount
 402 2013-05-03 04:55:58 <Luke-Jr> upgrade
 403 2013-05-03 04:56:06 <debiantoruser> is a HUGEST amount (:
 404 2013-05-03 04:56:13 bitit has joined
 405 2013-05-03 04:56:20 <gmaxwell> it's 35 cents of storage.
 406 2013-05-03 04:57:04 <debiantoruser> tsunami has enreach the cost of upgrade, and i'm stop this way
 407 2013-05-03 04:57:59 <debiantoruser> 35 cents, could you provide me with the ebay link, SATA-3, storage?
 408 2013-05-03 04:58:46 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin does not require SATA-3
 409 2013-05-03 04:59:16 <debiantoruser> you say that my baracuda have cost = 10.85 $
 410 2013-05-03 05:03:07 ericy has joined
 411 2013-05-03 05:03:46 lolcookie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 412 2013-05-03 05:06:20 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
 413 2013-05-03 05:07:09 <scintill> http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/02/technology/security/bitcoin-porn/index.html
 414 2013-05-03 05:07:58 <scintill> was just said on #bitcoin, but maybe some here would be interested. about the recent blockchain spam, a few words from jgarzik and Mike Hearn
 415 2013-05-03 05:08:35 <debiantoruser> Luke-Jr, there should exist light mode of bitcoind(linux) to fetch parent of blocks on the fly, and don't gathaer uneccesary for user blocks... i don't know how to do this best
 416 2013-05-03 05:08:45 <gonffen> jgarzik commented on it on his blog I do believe
 417 2013-05-03 05:10:45 Belxjander has joined
 418 2013-05-03 05:11:01 andkore has joined
 419 2013-05-03 05:11:52 <andkore> what's the name of the channel for discussion about bitcoin development? not development of bitcoin client/protocol, but developing applications using bitcoin
 420 2013-05-03 05:12:18 <Belxjander> there is #bitcoin-tech and #bitcoin-dev
 421 2013-05-03 05:12:28 <Belxjander> or are you meaning something else ?
 422 2013-05-03 05:13:05 <andkore> bitcoin-tech, thanks
 423 2013-05-03 05:14:58 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 424 2013-05-03 05:24:09 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 425 2013-05-03 05:25:50 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
 426 2013-05-03 05:26:01 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
 427 2013-05-03 05:26:14 owowo has quit (Quit: sayonara)
 428 2013-05-03 05:26:46 fresh1 has joined
 429 2013-05-03 05:26:50 <jspilman> if you are summing difficulty to find the longest chain, do you have to convert to 256-bit target and sum the 256-bit values, or is there a more compact way to keep a running sum?
 430 2013-05-03 05:33:04 fresh1 is now known as alex3
 431 2013-05-03 05:34:26 alex3 has left ()
 432 2013-05-03 05:34:39 <jspilman> or do you actually sum (max - hash) ... in other words does a block get credit for their exact hash, or just the difficulty that they exceeded?
 433 2013-05-03 05:36:18 grau has joined
 434 2013-05-03 05:36:46 h2odysee has joined
 435 2013-05-03 05:41:02 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 436 2013-05-03 05:43:24 meefozio has quit ()
 437 2013-05-03 05:45:16 drapetomano_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 438 2013-05-03 05:47:49 <gmaxwell> jspilman: just the difficulty, the hash is a random value... the difficulty reflects the actual work.
 439 2013-05-03 05:49:24 <gmaxwell> Not to mention you'd get weirdness like if you found a block with a value 1/10th the target you could mine on it in secret until a couple more blocks pass and announce it in order to get more of the blocks, and other such stupidity.
 440 2013-05-03 05:50:51 jeewee has joined
 441 2013-05-03 05:55:42 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
 442 2013-05-03 05:56:29 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 443 2013-05-03 05:57:03 grau has joined
 444 2013-05-03 05:57:32 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 445 2013-05-03 06:01:17 blackshepnz has joined
 446 2013-05-03 06:01:32 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
 447 2013-05-03 06:05:49 blackshepnz has quit (Client Quit)
 448 2013-05-03 06:06:54 lolcookie has joined
 449 2013-05-03 06:08:57 lolcookie is now known as lolcookie|bull
 450 2013-05-03 06:09:43 krator44 has left ()
 451 2013-05-03 06:10:28 g0thX has quit (Quit: g0thX)
 452 2013-05-03 06:11:38 sacredchao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 453 2013-05-03 06:12:04 sacredchao has joined
 454 2013-05-03 06:14:33 AtashiCon has joined
 455 2013-05-03 06:17:57 <jspilman> gmaxwell: thanks. does bitcoind just sum the biginteger difficulty targets, or is there a better way?
 456 2013-05-03 06:19:48 <gmaxwell> they're stored in a uint256 now.
 457 2013-05-03 06:20:03 <gmaxwell> (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2418)
 458 2013-05-03 06:21:39 <jspilman> cool, thanks
 459 2013-05-03 06:22:56 nickchow has joined
 460 2013-05-03 06:28:17 <h2odysee> How do you get your wallet's addresses using an RPC call? getaddressesbyaccount maybe? It needs some kind of argument I don't understand.
 461 2013-05-03 06:28:26 CodesInChaos has joined
 462 2013-05-03 06:28:44 freewil has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 463 2013-05-03 06:29:01 <Luke-Jr> h2odysee: getnewaddress usually
 464 2013-05-03 06:29:22 <h2odysee> I don't want to clog up my account with a bunch of new addresses though
 465 2013-05-03 06:29:42 saulimus has joined
 466 2013-05-03 06:29:44 <Luke-Jr> h2odysee: you should be using one address per transaction
 467 2013-05-03 06:29:54 <h2odysee> really? hmm ok
 468 2013-05-03 06:30:40 qwebirc93749 has joined
 469 2013-05-03 06:31:52 qwebirc93749 has quit (Client Quit)
 470 2013-05-03 06:33:42 andkore has left ("Leaving")
 471 2013-05-03 06:34:59 realazthat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 472 2013-05-03 06:37:05 Belxjander has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 473 2013-05-03 06:37:08 Aurigae1 has left ()
 474 2013-05-03 06:38:19 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 475 2013-05-03 06:39:40 freewil has joined
 476 2013-05-03 06:42:51 g0thX has joined
 477 2013-05-03 06:51:39 realazthat has joined
 478 2013-05-03 06:54:15 brimster has joined
 479 2013-05-03 06:54:26 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 480 2013-05-03 06:54:31 <takeyourhatoff> What would happen to bitcoin users in Egypt if their government cut off all outside internet access (assuming nobody found a way to circumvent it) but allowed domestic internet traffic?
 481 2013-05-03 06:56:02 <h2odysee> There would be a blockchain fork, I imagine.
 482 2013-05-03 06:58:58 mapppum is now known as mappum
 483 2013-05-03 06:59:20 <scintill> takeyourhatoff: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106302.0 "Desert island economy on Bitcoin without being connected to the internet?"
 484 2013-05-03 07:02:18 <takeyourhatoff> scintill: thanks
 485 2013-05-03 07:03:38 paracyst has quit ()
 486 2013-05-03 07:06:18 <duSn> exit
 487 2013-05-03 07:06:45 <duSn> is there really a way to cut off 'outside internet traffic' completely?
 488 2013-05-03 07:07:11 <takeyourhatoff> no
 489 2013-05-03 07:07:22 <takeyourhatoff> people always find a way around it
 490 2013-05-03 07:07:34 <takeyourhatoff> and it would only take one person to keep the blockchain in sync
 491 2013-05-03 07:07:38 <Habbie> it takes just one guy to peer with both the local bitcoin cloud and the global one
 492 2013-05-03 07:07:41 <Habbie> exactly
 493 2013-05-03 07:07:57 <Habbie> could be done over satellite, phone, whatever
 494 2013-05-03 07:08:04 <Habbie> how much bandwidth for just passing the blockchain around?
 495 2013-05-03 07:08:40 <Habbie> 200kb/block seems to  be a decent estimate
 496 2013-05-03 07:09:18 <Habbie> so 3 kilobit/second
 497 2013-05-03 07:09:23 <Habbie> with only
 498 2013-05-03 07:09:28 <Habbie> mild risk at an occasional orphan
 499 2013-05-03 07:09:30 <takeyourhatoff> tl;dr is it would take absolutely ages to find enough blocks to readjust with a lower hashrate to begin with. All transaction outputs would eventually be tainted with coinbase from blocks mined on the island, which would be orpahned when joined to mainline, and those wallets would be wothless
 500 2013-05-03 07:09:40 <Habbie> that too
 501 2013-05-03 07:10:05 falcon has joined
 502 2013-05-03 07:10:23 nus- has joined
 503 2013-05-03 07:10:43 <Habbie> difficulty reductions are capped to some percentage, right?
 504 2013-05-03 07:10:53 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 505 2013-05-03 07:11:26 <takeyourhatoff> The US government are pushing for powers to be able to shutdown the internet during times of heightened national security
 506 2013-05-03 07:11:32 <takeyourhatoff> well their share of it anyway
 507 2013-05-03 07:11:35 nus-- has joined
 508 2013-05-03 07:14:51 nus- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 509 2013-05-03 07:16:14 da2ce7 has joined
 510 2013-05-03 07:17:42 falcon has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 511 2013-05-03 07:18:31 falcon has joined
 512 2013-05-03 07:20:13 Belxjander has joined
 513 2013-05-03 07:21:39 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 514 2013-05-03 07:22:49 XRPTrader2 has joined
 515 2013-05-03 07:23:46 Line_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 516 2013-05-03 07:24:36 BlackPrapor has joined
 517 2013-05-03 07:26:01 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: Bye)
 518 2013-05-03 07:27:02 px42 has joined
 519 2013-05-03 07:30:29 lolcookie has quit (bull!~google@124-169-206-245.dyn.iinet.net.au|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 520 2013-05-03 07:31:18 Guest56297 is now known as Hasimir
 521 2013-05-03 07:31:18 Hasimir has quit (Changing host)
 522 2013-05-03 07:31:18 Hasimir has joined
 523 2013-05-03 07:31:21 spenvo has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 524 2013-05-03 07:32:16 px42 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 525 2013-05-03 07:33:04 vtomanov has joined
 526 2013-05-03 07:36:36 vtomanov has quit (Client Quit)
 527 2013-05-03 07:38:06 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
 528 2013-05-03 07:39:34 gagecolton has joined
 529 2013-05-03 07:42:03 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 530 2013-05-03 07:43:26 dansmith_btc has joined
 531 2013-05-03 07:45:15 <dansmith_btc> Hi, I'm trying to query bitcoind using RPC from a py script, I do: from bitcoinrpc import authproxy
 532 2013-05-03 07:45:17 <dansmith_btc> access = authproxy.AuthServiceProxy("http://Ulysseys:YourSuperGreatPasswordNumber_83756789458765434jnc@127.0.0.1:8332")
 533 2013-05-03 07:45:52 <dansmith_btc> but I get File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bitcoinrpc/authproxy.py", line 104, in __call__  raise JSONRPCException(response['error'])
 534 2013-05-03 07:46:18 TD_ has joined
 535 2013-05-03 07:46:53 <dansmith_btc> So, what is the error? bitcoin-qt is running with -server. Is the URL string in the correct format?
 536 2013-05-03 07:47:09 xenyx has joined
 537 2013-05-03 07:47:47 brimster has quit ()
 538 2013-05-03 07:49:29 macboz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 539 2013-05-03 07:51:02 czaanja has joined
 540 2013-05-03 07:51:25 macboz has joined
 541 2013-05-03 07:52:18 Azelphur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 542 2013-05-03 07:56:08 Azelphur has joined
 543 2013-05-03 07:57:24 ericy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 544 2013-05-03 07:59:16 <dansmith_btc> I can curl bitcoind and get responses. Can't find any decent examples of AuthServiceProxy online
 545 2013-05-03 08:02:44 melvster1 has joined
 546 2013-05-03 08:07:41 <h2odysee> from bitcoinrpc.authproxy import AuthServiceProxy as ServiceProxy, JSONRPCException
 547 2013-05-03 08:07:45 nizeguy has joined
 548 2013-05-03 08:07:48 <h2odysee> access = ServiceProxy("http://miner12345678.1:x@featherpool.com:9999")
 549 2013-05-03 08:07:52 <h2odysee> print access.getwork()
 550 2013-05-03 08:07:54 <h2odysee> like that?
 551 2013-05-03 08:08:53 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
 552 2013-05-03 08:08:53 nouitfvf has joined
 553 2013-05-03 08:09:12 <dansmith_btc> OK, I'm sorry, i changed 127.0.0.1 to localhost and there is no error now
 554 2013-05-03 08:09:18 melvster1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 555 2013-05-03 08:09:44 melvster1 has joined
 556 2013-05-03 08:12:28 <dansmith_btc> Wow, actually python script now works with both localhost and 127.0.0.1. But I swear just a couple minutes ago it gave me those exceptions and I haven't changed the script's code since
 557 2013-05-03 08:13:06 <h2odysee> does the daemon ever pause, like when it's updating the blockchain?
 558 2013-05-03 08:13:40 <Belxjander> dansmith_btc, localhost is hosts entry based name for 127.0.0.1 and there is no place like it :P
 559 2013-05-03 08:14:48 ericy has joined
 560 2013-05-03 08:14:53 falcon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 561 2013-05-03 08:15:51 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
 562 2013-05-03 08:17:37 falcon has joined
 563 2013-05-03 08:22:05 Thepok has joined
 564 2013-05-03 08:22:48 duckybsd has joined
 565 2013-05-03 08:24:59 Line_ has joined
 566 2013-05-03 08:25:27 <topi`> it seems 512 MB is no longer sufficient to run bitcoind ... i'm only at block 210k now and the process already takes 835m virt 267m rss
 567 2013-05-03 08:25:38 <topi`> (and already 400M swap used)
 568 2013-05-03 08:26:18 geb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 569 2013-05-03 08:27:26 milone has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 570 2013-05-03 08:27:31 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 571 2013-05-03 08:27:51 milone has joined
 572 2013-05-03 08:28:10 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 573 2013-05-03 08:28:10 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 574 2013-05-03 08:28:10 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 575 2013-05-03 08:28:10 intrd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 576 2013-05-03 08:28:57 gst has joined
 577 2013-05-03 08:28:59 <matjeh> will the copyrighted data and questionable URLs in the blockchain ever be a reason to make possession of the blockchain illegal?
 578 2013-05-03 08:29:08 sacredchao has joined
 579 2013-05-03 08:29:19 <Luke-Jr> matjeh: the blockchain doesn't have any storage for URIs really
 580 2013-05-03 08:29:23 metabyte has joined
 581 2013-05-03 08:29:23 bitit has joined
 582 2013-05-03 08:29:24 bitit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 583 2013-05-03 08:29:43 <matjeh> seems to me that this is the largest problem facing bitcoin at the moment but i don't see anyone concerned about it
 584 2013-05-03 08:29:47 bitit has joined
 585 2013-05-03 08:29:53 <Luke-Jr> matjeh: because it's not a problem
 586 2013-05-03 08:29:58 geb has joined
 587 2013-05-03 08:30:19 melvster1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 588 2013-05-03 08:33:46 <gmaxwell> matjeh: is possession of pi illegal?  Why not? it (almost certantly) contains all subsequences.  In any case, there are simple things that can be done to substantially constrain abuse of the network for storage but it generally seems people are not too concerned about it, especially with how expensive abusing it for storage generally is.
 589 2013-05-03 08:34:47 <matjeh> gmaxwell: well, prove it
 590 2013-05-03 08:34:59 <gmaxwell> matjeh: prove what?
 591 2013-05-03 08:35:30 <matjeh> 30 seconds of strings ~/.bitcoind/blocks/*|grep http will return things such as: * UltimAate-Pedo-Archives <http://kdq2y44aaas2aiu4.onion/> - Pictures
 592 2013-05-03 08:36:42 <gmaxwell> matjeh: I think it's unfortunate if you're interested in stuff like that, but this is hardly the place for it.
 593 2013-05-03 08:36:54 <matjeh> gmaxwell: there is no reason to store the expansion of pi
 594 2013-05-03 08:37:02 <gmaxwell> matjeh: What are you telling me to prove?
 595 2013-05-03 08:37:29 <gmaxwell> matjeh: and yet people do (plus it can be computed incrementally from any point in it)
 596 2013-05-03 08:37:29 <matjeh> prove pi "contains all subsequences"
 597 2013-05-03 08:37:29 wallet42 has joined
 598 2013-05-03 08:37:48 <gmaxwell> matjeh: look up normal number on mathworld or wikipedia.
 599 2013-05-03 08:38:07 <matjeh> i really would rather not that such material was stored on my disk (this stuff in the blockchain)
 600 2013-05-03 08:38:07 <gmaxwell> If you could prove that pi was not normal you'd be looking to recieve a fields medal.
 601 2013-05-03 08:38:13 <matjeh> the blockchain message service is a terrible idea
 602 2013-05-03 08:38:29 <gmaxwell> message service? huh?
 603 2013-05-03 08:38:32 <_dr> well, just run a spv node then
 604 2013-05-03 08:38:49 <matjeh> gmaxwell: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain_message_service
 605 2013-05-03 08:38:59 <_dr> and we'll put the archive nodes in the vatican, they shouldn't be overly concernd with that
 606 2013-05-03 08:39:28 <gmaxwell> matjeh: that doesn't exist anymore
 607 2013-05-03 08:40:47 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 608 2013-05-03 08:43:27 darwin_ has joined
 609 2013-05-03 08:48:00 <dansmith_btc> Hi, by how many percent approx. will the datadir grow if I do -txindex=1 -reindex ?
 610 2013-05-03 08:48:44 <gmaxwell> at the moment it will add about 900mbytes.
 611 2013-05-03 08:48:57 tvbcof has left ("WeeChat 0.4.0")
 612 2013-05-03 08:50:30 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, thanks. How can I get rid of the index later, rerun txindex=0 -reindex ?
 613 2013-05-03 08:51:15 <gmaxwell> Yes, that should work (though I don't know if I've ever personally tested that case!)
 614 2013-05-03 08:53:18 <Scrat> index directory will still be there though
 615 2013-05-03 08:53:37 <gmaxwell> Scrat: does it actually leave the data in it?
 616 2013-05-03 08:54:27 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 617 2013-05-03 08:55:18 <Scrat> gmaxwell: didn't run it with -reindex
 618 2013-05-03 08:55:44 t7 has joined
 619 2013-05-03 08:59:32 Chuky has joined
 620 2013-05-03 08:59:55 BTCOxygen has joined
 621 2013-05-03 09:00:25 CrypticS_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 622 2013-05-03 09:00:42 darwin_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 623 2013-05-03 09:00:54 CrypticSquared has joined
 624 2013-05-03 09:01:29 Prattler has joined
 625 2013-05-03 09:01:32 amincd has joined
 626 2013-05-03 09:02:06 simondlr has joined
 627 2013-05-03 09:02:41 amincd has left ()
 628 2013-05-03 09:02:42 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 629 2013-05-03 09:04:28 <lianj> wait, announcing a bitcoind in go with no source code available yet…
 630 2013-05-03 09:04:55 <simondlr> Hey guys. Is this the definitive list of inclusions into 0.8.2? (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?milestone=11&state=open)?
 631 2013-05-03 09:05:25 <Luke-Jr> simondlr: there is no definitive list until it's released
 632 2013-05-03 09:06:02 <simondlr> or rather, what has already been pulled that is going to be included?
 633 2013-05-03 09:07:48 <simondlr> 2 things I have trouble finding out: is mintxfee = 0.0001 BTC already in use? (it's not in the 0.8.2 milestone it seems), and there hasn't been any changes to the blocksize limits right? (250kb soft, 500kb hard)?
 634 2013-05-03 09:08:33 <Luke-Jr> the hard limit is, has always been, and probably will be for the forseeable future, 1 MB
 635 2013-05-03 09:08:49 <Luke-Jr> the soft limit is not something the software determines, it's something miners choose
 636 2013-05-03 09:09:52 h2odysee has quit ()
 637 2013-05-03 09:10:21 <simondlr> Thanks Luke-Jr!
 638 2013-05-03 09:10:45 ThomasV has joined
 639 2013-05-03 09:11:11 <lianj> also, anyone selling tickets for the gox vs lab cage fight in san jose?
 640 2013-05-03 09:11:45 tvbcof has joined
 641 2013-05-03 09:11:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: pulltester improvement? what suggests that?
 642 2013-05-03 09:11:53 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 643 2013-05-03 09:12:09 <Luke-Jr> lianj: is anyone from gox going?
 644 2013-05-03 09:12:59 <lianj> Luke-Jr: dunno, hope so
 645 2013-05-03 09:13:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: well your bug triggered a failure in the reorg test, but it passed pulltester.
 646 2013-05-03 09:13:58 toffoo has quit ()
 647 2013-05-03 09:14:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: so perhaps pulltester should be starting up on a copy of the full bitcoin chain and letting the reorg test run.
 648 2013-05-03 09:17:09 dansmith_btc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 649 2013-05-03 09:17:39 Insti has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 650 2013-05-03 09:17:51 scintill has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 651 2013-05-03 09:18:42 Steve132 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 652 2013-05-03 09:20:30 someone42 has joined
 653 2013-05-03 09:20:40 lolcookie has joined
 654 2013-05-03 09:22:46 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 655 2013-05-03 09:23:39 <simondlr> Do any of the large mining pools release the settings they choose (such as soft limits, etc)?
 656 2013-05-03 09:25:45 <Luke-Jr> Eligius is pretty transparent, at least
 657 2013-05-03 09:26:26 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 658 2013-05-03 09:26:42 Diablo-D3 has joined
 659 2013-05-03 09:27:24 <gmaxwell> simondlr: you can run p2pool and set your own settings.
 660 2013-05-03 09:27:37 <Scrat> if (transaction.accepted == "jesus") transaction.push();
 661 2013-05-03 09:27:39 B0g4r7 has joined
 662 2013-05-03 09:28:28 dawei101 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 663 2013-05-03 09:28:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: not reorg... just initial block verification
 664 2013-05-03 09:28:47 <sipa> and not immediately even
 665 2013-05-03 09:28:58 <simondlr> Luke-Jr, Gmaxwell: Thanks. Was just wondering what the consensus is surrounding the choosable parameters. With the mintxfee not being hardcoded soon, should be interesting to know. :)
 666 2013-05-03 09:29:15 skinnkavaj has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 667 2013-05-03 09:29:40 skinnkavaj has joined
 668 2013-05-03 09:29:58 sacrelege has joined
 669 2013-05-03 09:30:24 <gmaxwell> simondlr: huh? I mean no one running a mining pool is at all limited by whats a commandline paramter. All of them run modified versions or at least have in the past AFAIK.
 670 2013-05-03 09:30:54 <gmaxwell> simondlr: also, sounds like we need to rename "mintxfee" because I suspect it doesn't do what you think it does, if you think its interesting.
 671 2013-05-03 09:31:30 egis has joined
 672 2013-05-03 09:31:34 dawei101 has joined
 673 2013-05-03 09:31:59 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 674 2013-05-03 09:32:07 dawei101 has left ()
 675 2013-05-03 09:33:16 <simondlr> @gmaxwell: Aye. I'm just curious in what way they are modifying it. re: mintxfee. It's the fee miners choose per kb to include in their blocks? Or am I getting it completely wrong here...
 676 2013-05-03 09:33:28 Insti has joined
 677 2013-05-03 09:33:28 <gmaxwell> No.
 678 2013-05-03 09:33:29 linagee has quit (Changing host)
 679 2013-05-03 09:33:29 linagee has joined
 680 2013-05-03 09:33:31 <gmaxwell> (it controls the fee per kb that below which is treated as zero for priority purposes, and the small fraction of that where txouts of that value or less make the txn get treated as non-standard (won't get relayed/mined))  Defaults to 0.0001 and mostly just inhibits flooding attacks.
 681 2013-05-03 09:33:39 miscreanity has joined
 682 2013-05-03 09:33:39 MiningBuddy has joined
 683 2013-05-03 09:33:40 falcon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 684 2013-05-03 09:33:48 <kinlo> simondlr: well, I can only speak for my pool, but I only use the default settings :)
 685 2013-05-03 09:33:50 torsthaldo has quit (Excess Flood)
 686 2013-05-03 09:34:02 <gmaxwell> simondlr: miners take w/ fee transactions in fee per kb order... there isn't a threshold. except sufficiently small ones are treated as zero and then just taken in priority order.
 687 2013-05-03 09:34:02 <kinlo> and no patches to the bitcoind anymore
 688 2013-05-03 09:34:04 miscreanity is now known as Guest3893
 689 2013-05-03 09:34:08 Raccoon` has joined
 690 2013-05-03 09:34:49 falcon has joined
 691 2013-05-03 09:34:52 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: that's a :<, not a :)
 692 2013-05-03 09:35:32 da2ce7 has joined
 693 2013-05-03 09:35:57 torsthaldo has joined
 694 2013-05-03 09:36:49 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: ? :)
 695 2013-05-03 09:37:01 <simondlr> @gmaxwell: oh right! If it is below that per kb then it is regarded as a 'zero' fee and then treated as such?
 696 2013-05-03 09:37:35 <kinlo> I'm actually very glad my bitcoind doesn't need to be custom built
 697 2013-05-03 09:37:39 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: miners are supposed to do their own selection and filtering, not just run defaults
 698 2013-05-03 09:37:46 bitit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 699 2013-05-03 09:37:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 700 2013-05-03 09:38:02 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: that's your opinion, most miners are pretty happy without that...
 701 2013-05-03 09:38:09 <gmaxwell> simondlr: right, or a dos attacker could set their fee to 0.00000001/kb and totally flood out free txn for almost no cost.
 702 2013-05-03 09:38:13 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: also, show me users on your pool that actually do that
 703 2013-05-03 09:38:55 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: pushing all the responsibility into a centralized development team is not good for bitcoin, regardless of lax miners
 704 2013-05-03 09:39:11 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: also, if you'd want that, you'd have to basicly use sendrawmempool, coz now, you only limit to those your pool accepts itselves
 705 2013-05-03 09:39:24 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: at the very least, pools are somewhat diverse if they do something actively
 706 2013-05-03 09:39:24 <kinlo> you're only allowing people to deny stuff
 707 2013-05-03 09:39:37 bitit has joined
 708 2013-05-03 09:39:40 <Luke-Jr> …
 709 2013-05-03 09:40:21 <gmaxwell> kinlo: he's not just talking about users, he's talking about himself.  ... I'm generally happy that pool operators have the _capability_ to adjust the policy, even if they're happy with the defaults right now.
 710 2013-05-03 09:40:45 <gmaxwell> I'd consider it concerning and unfortunate if pool operators kept defaults they believed were actively bad simply because it was easier.
 711 2013-05-03 09:41:03 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: also, if you just run defaults, you're neglecting to filter spam
 712 2013-05-03 09:41:05 <gmaxwell> (though if you consider some default bad— then perhaps the reference should be changing it too!)
 713 2013-05-03 09:41:42 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: reference shouldn't have hacky filters like 1dice*, but miners certainly should
 714 2013-05-03 09:42:09 <kinlo> gmaxwell: well, I currently do reduce the blocksize, but in general the default settings are fine
 715 2013-05-03 09:42:12 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: besides, Gavin's been trying to push miners/pools to use bitcoind forks for some time now :p
 716 2013-05-03 09:42:19 <lianj> Luke-Jr: also doing a dust filter or ok if fees match?
 717 2013-05-03 09:42:22 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: I disagree, the stock client has many rules to reduce spam
 718 2013-05-03 09:42:33 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: but not effective ones today
 719 2013-05-03 09:43:04 <kinlo> gmaxwell: In order to change the defaults, you need to fully understand every bitcoin rule, that's hard atm, I've read many pieces of code and still don't know every rule
 720 2013-05-03 09:43:05 <gmaxwell> kinlo: well I do think we take a more conservative approach in the reference client than many would prefer... and I think it's generally good to take a conservative approach— the cost of getting it wrong in the reference client is higher.
 721 2013-05-03 09:43:37 drizztbsd has joined
 722 2013-05-03 09:43:37 drizztbsd has quit (Changing host)
 723 2013-05-03 09:43:37 drizztbsd has joined
 724 2013-05-03 09:44:20 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: kinlo has a point there, esp since local policy often doesn't get discussed in public. I could see someone implementing foolish rules due to misunderstanding things.
 725 2013-05-03 09:44:20 * Luke-Jr bets over 50% of kinlo's blocks are spam
 726 2013-05-03 09:44:43 moroz has joined
 727 2013-05-03 09:44:45 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, then they should get discussed in public more :P
 728 2013-05-03 09:44:50 dawei101 has joined
 729 2013-05-03 09:45:57 sydna has joined
 730 2013-05-03 09:45:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I might offer that your use of intense language complicates the discussions. :)
 731 2013-05-03 09:45:57 <simondlr> @gmaxwell: Thanks for explaining. Just to make sure. Besides having a zero priority, any txouts below the mintxfee/kb are regarded as non-standard.
 732 2013-05-03 09:46:14 <lianj> who runs 50btc, irc nick?
 733 2013-05-03 09:46:16 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: huh?
 734 2013-05-03 09:46:30 <Luke-Jr> lianj: I've not seen whoever it is on IRC AFAIK
 735 2013-05-03 09:46:40 <lianj> aw. thanks though
 736 2013-05-03 09:46:44 <gmaxwell> simondlr: no, below a small fraction of mintxfee/kb. And they do _not_ have zero priority. They have whatever priority they have based on age... their fee is regarded as zero for the priority calculation, not the rest.
 737 2013-05-03 09:47:07 jackieh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 738 2013-05-03 09:47:13 derp3032 has joined
 739 2013-05-03 09:47:25 <sipa> fee is not repevant for the priority anyway, is it?
 740 2013-05-03 09:47:36 <sipa> it's bitcoindaysdestroyed/byte
 741 2013-05-03 09:48:17 <gmaxwell> sipa: for priority itself no, but "priority" in the sense of priortization into a block— absolutely.  Sorry for using vague language.
 742 2013-05-03 09:48:34 <sipa> right
 743 2013-05-03 09:49:37 <gmaxwell> simondlr: there are effectively different queues for "zero fee" and "fee based", the former (which includes fees too small) has transactions ordered by priority (bitcoindaysdestroyed/byte), the latter by fee/kb. Blocks include transactions from both queues.
 744 2013-05-03 09:50:04 rdymac has joined
 745 2013-05-03 09:50:23 bitit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 746 2013-05-03 09:50:49 <jgm> gmaxwell: What are the rules for including transactions from the queues, or is it up to individual miners?  And how are the rules enforced?
 747 2013-05-03 09:51:07 bitit has joined
 748 2013-05-03 09:51:13 rottenchris has joined
 749 2013-05-03 09:51:27 <jgm> (feel free to point me to code if that's easier than answering yourself)
 750 2013-05-03 09:51:31 Nash has joined
 751 2013-05-03 09:51:36 davout has joined
 752 2013-05-03 09:51:38 <sydna> gmaxwell: what's the word about the bitcointalk.org domain?
 753 2013-05-03 09:52:52 <gmaxwell> jgm: there aren't rules imposed on the miners. The fee based queue maximizes the miners income. There is no need to enforce it, rational self interest does. The zero-fee priority queue allows free transactions through in a way that keeps dos attackers from flooding it out, which is good for making bitcoin easier to use— also in the miners rational self interest.
 754 2013-05-03 09:52:54 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: what is intense language? :x
 755 2013-05-03 09:53:15 <simondlr> Ah okay! zero fee transactions (below mintxfee/kb) uses bitcoindaysdestroyed/byte, while if it is above mintxfee/kb, then it is 'prioritised' into the block based on fee/kb.
 756 2013-05-03 09:53:31 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: on review perhaps I'm wrong, I thought you were yelling at kinlo and ranting about spam. But when I went back to quote you, you didn't seem to be saying anything quotable. :)
 757 2013-05-03 09:53:33 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 758 2013-05-03 09:53:48 <Luke-Jr> now I'm even more confused XD
 759 2013-05-03 09:54:03 <gmaxwell> simondlr: right. And the balance between the two is controlled by a configurable setting on how big the blocks should be and how much is reserved for 'free' txn.
 760 2013-05-03 09:54:04 <jgm> I get the fee-based queue, but surely it would be more in the miners interest to not put any 0-fee transactions through.
 761 2013-05-03 09:54:53 <gmaxwell> jgm: why? they'll already take all the big fees.. who cares if you get a bitcent more but make bitcoin less easy to introduce people to as a side effect.
 762 2013-05-03 09:55:11 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin being maximally usable is strongly in the interest of everyone who has some bitcoin.
 763 2013-05-03 09:55:27 <simondlr> @jgm: I'd say putting 0-fee tx through (if there is space in the block) keeps dos attackers out and increases interest in BTC. (People can spend)
 764 2013-05-03 09:56:28 <gmaxwell> the subsidy is currently huge compared to any fees your getting, as a miner you should be most interesting in making those 25 btc as valuable as possible.
 765 2013-05-03 09:56:58 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 766 2013-05-03 09:57:07 GNULinuxGuy has joined
 767 2013-05-03 09:57:29 <jgm> Hmm... maybe.  Not convinced by the "the whole network benefits" argument when mintxfee seems pretty low as it is
 768 2013-05-03 09:57:47 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 769 2013-05-03 09:59:00 <gmaxwell> jgm: the ability to make low priority transactions that sweep up wallets is productive to everyone. Some people get really confused and angry when they need to pay even a tiny amount as a fee (perhaps, arguably, we should be shaking those people out now... since it's not a reasonable position that there should never be any fees)
 770 2013-05-03 09:59:05 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: Bye)
 771 2013-05-03 09:59:28 <jgm> But what happens when there are enough fee-paying transactions to fill out blocks as they are mined?  Given miners' rational self interest we'll be in a world where suddenly the 0-fee transactions don't happen any more, surely?
 772 2013-05-03 09:59:36 rottenchris has left ()
 773 2013-05-03 10:00:58 <jgm> And if in the meantime people have built systems that create 0-fee transactions, or even rely on them, then things will get a bit confused as transactions which previously went through without a fee suddenly have to have a fee attached to them.
 774 2013-05-03 10:02:04 <jgm> The other problem, to be honest, is that the whole cost/kb thing is going to be a nightmare for most people to understand.  Especially with wallets hiding the state of individual UXTOs and showing an abstracted 'balance' instead.  Two payments of the same amount could have very different fees
 775 2013-05-03 10:02:04 hnz has joined
 776 2013-05-03 10:02:40 <jgm> (Not that I'm suggesting any solutions of course)
 777 2013-05-03 10:03:26 <lianj> but its a valid point
 778 2013-05-03 10:04:07 <xenyx> maybe a social security # too :p
 779 2013-05-03 10:04:08 <jgm> Is there some argument for allowing housekeeping transactions to go through free of charge at a relatively sane priority?  Although again, difficult to police.  Perhaps fees based on some sort of aggregation metric (vins/vouts)?
 780 2013-05-03 10:04:13 <xenyx> for IRS taxpayer purposes
 781 2013-05-03 10:04:48 <lianj> jgm: meaning collecting inputs into bigger outputs?
 782 2013-05-03 10:04:52 <lianj> i would like that
 783 2013-05-03 10:05:31 <jgm> lianj: Yeah, something like that helps everyone in reducing UTXO so seems like a good thing to encourage
 784 2013-05-03 10:07:51 <lianj> did test some faucets recenlty, not sure the coins but looking at their state. most useless shit ever: http://blockchain.info/address/1DawDWqcAHuVhw8XsGNpuB9XZ2Lg8keaXr good i didn't use a wallet address
 785 2013-05-03 10:08:59 <jgm> Any thoughts on charts that might be useful to see?  Been building out a DB from the blockchain and starting to put some together.  Not the normal "how much are my bitcoins worth" but things like average fees per block, average block size, total value of transactions etc.  Also working on things like distributions of block size
 786 2013-05-03 10:09:24 <jgm> lianj: there should be a word for transactions whose sole purpose is to create dust.
 787 2013-05-03 10:10:04 <lianj> (whoever wants them, here 5dd6bce4368604ba287ee8911cc4c695ff456f6570e59b6785c9745a28516a6c)
 788 2013-05-03 10:10:54 <lianj> jgm: not sure the sender even want to create dust, maybe they just dont know better
 789 2013-05-03 10:11:12 <sydna> lianj: a grinder?
 790 2013-05-03 10:11:20 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 791 2013-05-03 10:12:09 <jgm> a mincer?
 792 2013-05-03 10:12:30 <lianj> ?
 793 2013-05-03 10:12:49 derp3032 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 794 2013-05-03 10:13:03 <lianj> hehe, at least someone wanted them..
 795 2013-05-03 10:13:21 optimator has joined
 796 2013-05-03 10:13:22 <simondlr> @lianj: fuck, that's nothing.
 797 2013-05-03 10:13:27 <simondlr> haha
 798 2013-05-03 10:13:58 Jackneill has joined
 799 2013-05-03 10:14:15 Blitzboom has joined
 800 2013-05-03 10:17:35 Faradayy has joined
 801 2013-05-03 10:20:20 XertroV has joined
 802 2013-05-03 10:21:23 <XertroV> Morning, is there anyone around that know's anything about adding RPC commands to Bitcoind? I'm trying to add one and convert a field of the input to a double, yet it is still a string when the params are delivered to the function.
 803 2013-05-03 10:21:33 <XertroV> Code thus far: https://github.com/XertroV/bitcoin/commit/645c88d361a18c330845e5697ea9c817045bd452
 804 2013-05-03 10:22:04 <XertroV> I've experimented with a few other RPC commands I tried to add that aren't in the above commit and couldn't get any params to convert there either.
 805 2013-05-03 10:22:18 <XertroV> I think I'm concerned particularly with this line: if (strMethod == "createchaintradetx"    && n > 5) ConvertTo<double>(params[5]);
 806 2013-05-03 10:24:19 freefox has joined
 807 2013-05-03 10:24:21 HaltingState has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 808 2013-05-03 10:26:26 HaltingState has joined
 809 2013-05-03 10:26:26 HaltingState has quit (Changing host)
 810 2013-05-03 10:26:26 HaltingState has joined
 811 2013-05-03 10:27:56 rushed has joined
 812 2013-05-03 10:28:04 <sipa> Luke-Jr: would you be offended if i tried to rewrite child-pays-for-parent in a different way?
 813 2013-05-03 10:28:21 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no, please feel free
 814 2013-05-03 10:28:44 <Luke-Jr> sipa: although in terms of usage, I'd want to be able to get the same behaviour
 815 2013-05-03 10:28:56 grau has joined
 816 2013-05-03 10:29:48 zer0def has quit (Quit: Quit:)
 817 2013-05-03 10:30:18 RazielZ has joined
 818 2013-05-03 10:30:20 <Luke-Jr> though tbh, personally I'd prefer you spend your time on HD wallets ;)  but obviously that's your choice :p
 819 2013-05-03 10:30:22 <sydna> sipa, Luke-Jr, does any of the core team know what happened to the bitcointalk domain?
 820 2013-05-03 10:30:38 <Luke-Jr> sydna: did something happen to it?
 821 2013-05-03 10:30:46 <sydna> yes
 822 2013-05-03 10:30:50 <sydna> it's been transferred to another party
 823 2013-05-03 10:30:58 <sydna> and isn't pointing at the right server anymore
 824 2013-05-03 10:31:17 <sydna> unless "Martti Malmi" is Thymos.
 825 2013-05-03 10:32:47 BTCOxygen is now known as 1!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen|BTCOxygen
 826 2013-05-03 10:33:05 zer0def has joined
 827 2013-05-03 10:33:53 <sipa> no, it's Sirius
 828 2013-05-03 10:34:14 <sydna> ah hah! so an honest mistake rather than a malicious act
 829 2013-05-03 10:34:24 <sydna> that's comforting
 830 2013-05-03 10:35:25 falcon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 831 2013-05-03 10:36:24 g0thX has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 832 2013-05-03 10:41:54 ralphtheninja has joined
 833 2013-05-03 10:42:37 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 834 2013-05-03 10:42:41 <ProfMac> is there a correct ip address for bitcointalk?
 835 2013-05-03 10:42:49 tiberiusiv has joined
 836 2013-05-03 10:42:53 fuccboi00 has joined
 837 2013-05-03 10:43:03 <sydna> I see 109.201.133.65
 838 2013-05-03 10:43:08 dawei101 has left ()
 839 2013-05-03 10:43:14 jake1048576 has joined
 840 2013-05-03 10:45:07 Guest88224 has joined
 841 2013-05-03 10:45:12 Guest88224 has left ()
 842 2013-05-03 10:46:12 Btceldur has joined
 843 2013-05-03 10:46:13 jake1048576 has quit (Client Quit)
 844 2013-05-03 10:46:48 jake1048576 has joined
 845 2013-05-03 10:48:52 jeewee has joined
 846 2013-05-03 10:50:18 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 847 2013-05-03 10:50:34 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 848 2013-05-03 10:50:57 Keefe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 849 2013-05-03 10:51:13 Keefe has joined
 850 2013-05-03 10:51:13 Keefe has quit (Changing host)
 851 2013-05-03 10:51:13 Keefe has joined
 852 2013-05-03 10:52:22 TD[gone] is now known as TD
 853 2013-05-03 10:52:47 <TD> sipa: about HD wallets. could you define a base58 serialization format for root keys that includes the date?
 854 2013-05-03 10:53:16 <TD> sipa: because one of the biggest issues i see with private key formats is that most of them are designed by people who have access to an entire indexed block chain, so they assume any key can be imported instantly.
 855 2013-05-03 10:54:27 kadoban has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 856 2013-05-03 10:54:32 n5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 857 2013-05-03 10:54:45 n5 has joined
 858 2013-05-03 10:58:08 <sipa> TD: i know, but i don't think that information belongs in the key itself; it's wallet metadata and people should be importing/exporting wallets instead of individual keys
 859 2013-05-03 10:58:18 <sipa> i know practice is different now though
 860 2013-05-03 10:58:19 <TD> heh. was just having this conversation with goonie
 861 2013-05-03 10:58:25 <TD> the issue is that people really like the concept of paper wallets
 862 2013-05-03 10:58:31 <sipa> and they should
 863 2013-05-03 10:58:33 <TD> and i agree people should back up entire wallet files
 864 2013-05-03 10:58:40 <sipa> but a paper wallet should be a wallet and not a key
 865 2013-05-03 10:58:43 <TD> but, in practice, some will lose that and only have the root key.
 866 2013-05-03 10:58:46 <TD> well how do you do that?
 867 2013-05-03 10:59:06 <TD> you mean each wallet software defines some custom format that has to be printed out?
 868 2013-05-03 10:59:17 <TD> to me paper wallet means, a code short enough I can write it down with a pen and type it back in
 869 2013-05-03 10:59:24 michagogo has joined
 870 2013-05-03 10:59:43 <sipa> have you seen how long serialized BIP32 keys are? :p
 871 2013-05-03 10:59:57 <sipa> yes, i understand
 872 2013-05-03 11:00:12 <sipa> the problem is that the key format will be the lowest common denominator people will use anyway
 873 2013-05-03 11:00:24 <sipa> instead of a higher wallet format around it
 874 2013-05-03 11:00:36 <sipa> TD: also, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2592
 875 2013-05-03 11:02:56 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 876 2013-05-03 11:06:57 ericy has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 877 2013-05-03 11:08:02 CodeShark has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 878 2013-05-03 11:11:08 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 879 2013-05-03 11:11:49 duSn has quit (Quit: leaving)
 880 2013-05-03 11:11:59 jake1048576 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 881 2013-05-03 11:12:06 g0thX has joined
 882 2013-05-03 11:12:34 perhapstired has joined
 883 2013-05-03 11:12:58 tiberiusiv has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 884 2013-05-03 11:14:28 g0thX has quit (Changing host)
 885 2013-05-03 11:14:28 g0thX has joined
 886 2013-05-03 11:14:29 perhapstired has left ()
 887 2013-05-03 11:18:23 Guest94352 has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 888 2013-05-03 11:18:54 MAN0liYOU has joined
 889 2013-05-03 11:19:18 MAN0liYOU is now known as Guest50382
 890 2013-05-03 11:19:46 syskk has quit (Quit: syskk)
 891 2013-05-03 11:20:28 Guest50382 is now known as abueesp
 892 2013-05-03 11:20:32 molecular has joined
 893 2013-05-03 11:20:58 abueesp is now known as Guest73405
 894 2013-05-03 11:21:34 one_zero has quit ()
 895 2013-05-03 11:22:22 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 896 2013-05-03 11:23:35 gst has joined
 897 2013-05-03 11:25:32 slothbag has joined
 898 2013-05-03 11:29:03 Hans-Martin has joined
 899 2013-05-03 11:31:17 ikeewee has joined
 900 2013-05-03 11:32:08 syskk has joined
 901 2013-05-03 11:32:09 syskk has quit (Changing host)
 902 2013-05-03 11:32:09 syskk has joined
 903 2013-05-03 11:36:19 pera has joined
 904 2013-05-03 11:37:00 daybyter has joined
 905 2013-05-03 11:37:55 syskk has quit (Quit: syskk)
 906 2013-05-03 11:39:01 Springy has joined
 907 2013-05-03 11:39:43 rushed has quit (Quit: rushed)
 908 2013-05-03 11:40:01 <pera> what happened with the blockchain?
 909 2013-05-03 11:40:30 <pera> there is one hour of delay between block 234323 and 234324
 910 2013-05-03 11:40:43 <sipa> ;;tblb 3600
 911 2013-05-03 11:40:44 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 hour and 0 seconds to generate is 2 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes, and 9 seconds
 912 2013-05-03 11:40:56 <alaricsp> Mining holiday. They were all out to lunch at once.
 913 2013-05-03 11:41:11 <pera> :3
 914 2013-05-03 11:42:14 JDuke128 has joined
 915 2013-05-03 11:42:35 <sydna> ;;tblb 7200
 916 2013-05-03 11:42:37 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 2 hours and 0 seconds to generate is 2 years, 48 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 28 seconds
 917 2013-05-03 11:42:44 <skinnkavaj> sipa: would you say that there is a problem or will be a problem when/if blockchain grows too big?
 918 2013-05-03 11:43:20 <sipa> skinnkavaj: define too big?
 919 2013-05-03 11:44:20 Skav has joined
 920 2013-05-03 11:44:30 <skinnkavaj> like when there is too much cost of actually running the bitcoin-qt client and sending transacations due to the fact that you need to have expensive storage to run it?
 921 2013-05-03 11:44:41 suporte85 has quit (Quit: Saindo)
 922 2013-05-03 11:46:36 rottenchris has joined
 923 2013-05-03 11:46:36 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 924 2013-05-03 11:47:14 <sipa> skinnkavaj: i think over time people just doing transactions will move to lightweight clients
 925 2013-05-03 11:48:18 <skinnkavaj> doesn't the lightweight clients needs to have the same data in the blockchain?
 926 2013-05-03 11:49:06 <skinnkavaj> how is lightweight clients different from bitcoin-qt?
 927 2013-05-03 11:49:49 Springy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 928 2013-05-03 11:50:11 rdymac has joined
 929 2013-05-03 11:51:25 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 930 2013-05-03 11:52:25 Ahimoth has joined
 931 2013-05-03 11:52:56 <sipa> skinnkavaj: not storing or verifying history
 932 2013-05-03 11:53:30 drizztbsd has joined
 933 2013-05-03 11:53:31 <sipa> also, it's perfectly possible to delete block history once it's verified
 934 2013-05-03 11:54:00 <lianj> (for lightweight clients)
 935 2013-05-03 11:54:30 Animazing has joined
 936 2013-05-03 11:54:31 <sipa> no, for fully verifying clients too
 937 2013-05-03 11:55:05 <sipa> they won't be able to serve the blocks to others anymore, or reorg away from the part of the chain they have, or rescan for missing wallet transactions
 938 2013-05-03 11:56:46 Hasimir has quit (Quit: reboot)
 939 2013-05-03 11:56:55 <drizztbsd> where is forum.bitcoin.org and/or bitcointalk?
 940 2013-05-03 11:57:25 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 941 2013-05-03 12:00:57 CrypticSquared has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 942 2013-05-03 12:01:52 PRab has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 943 2013-05-03 12:02:07 <wumpus> drizztbsd: there are problems with the domain, the server is running though, you can get to it by adding a hosts line with 109.201.133.65 bitcointalk.org
 944 2013-05-03 12:04:12 PRab has joined
 945 2013-05-03 12:05:39 fishfish has joined
 946 2013-05-03 12:06:18 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 947 2013-05-03 12:07:37 nizeguy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 948 2013-05-03 12:07:44 nizeguy has joined
 949 2013-05-03 12:07:51 nizeguy_ has joined
 950 2013-05-03 12:08:03 kauzu has joined
 951 2013-05-03 12:08:04 nizeguy_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 952 2013-05-03 12:08:11 nizeguy_ has joined
 953 2013-05-03 12:08:18 nizeguy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 954 2013-05-03 12:08:27 nizeguy has joined
 955 2013-05-03 12:08:38 <kauzu> how can i crosscompile bitcoin-qt with ubuntu for linux
 956 2013-05-03 12:09:22 thelamest has quit (Quit: rebook)
 957 2013-05-03 12:09:28 suporte85 has joined
 958 2013-05-03 12:09:33 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 959 2013-05-03 12:09:47 <kauzu> i'm able to build native but i have no idea how to cross compile
 960 2013-05-03 12:10:43 <wumpus> kauzu: steps for gitian are in grue's post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149479.20
 961 2013-05-03 12:10:49 thelamest has joined
 962 2013-05-03 12:11:15 <kauzu> wumpus: the link is dead
 963 2013-05-03 12:11:34 nizeguy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 964 2013-05-03 12:11:37 rdymac has joined
 965 2013-05-03 12:11:49 jdnavarro has joined
 966 2013-05-03 12:11:54 <wumpus> bitcointalk dns server is confused, you can get to it by adding a hosts line with 109.201.133.65 bitcointalk.org
 967 2013-05-03 12:11:56 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 968 2013-05-03 12:12:01 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 969 2013-05-03 12:12:25 rdymac has joined
 970 2013-05-03 12:12:57 nizeguy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 971 2013-05-03 12:15:49 rottenchris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 972 2013-05-03 12:15:49 ovidiusoft has joined
 973 2013-05-03 12:15:57 <jaromil> wumpus: thanks.
 974 2013-05-03 12:16:05 <kauzu> wumpus: thx but this is not about crosscompiling
 975 2013-05-03 12:16:23 <wumpus> kauzu: it is, he lists steps to get gitian to work
 976 2013-05-03 12:16:34 <wumpus> that's for building the windows version from linux
 977 2013-05-03 12:16:38 <jaromil> wumpus: 109.201.133.65 still refuses connections
 978 2013-05-03 12:17:09 <sydna> HTTPS only
 979 2013-05-03 12:17:11 <wumpus> jaromil: it works fine here
 980 2013-05-03 12:17:39 lodse has joined
 981 2013-05-03 12:17:47 <sydna> https://109.201.133.65/index.php
 982 2013-05-03 12:18:02 <jaromil> hack yes https works
 983 2013-05-03 12:18:04 <jaromil> 10x
 984 2013-05-03 12:18:36 <czaanja> Can someone please clarify me a bit the procedure of tx relaying?
 985 2013-05-03 12:18:37 <czaanja> Transaction without fee, are relayed by the node only to max amount of 15kB/s by default? Did I got it right?
 986 2013-05-03 12:19:37 <czaanja> So transactions without fee may take quite a time to propagate to network.. ?
 987 2013-05-03 12:20:29 <czaanja> Not speaking now about beeing included in a block. Just beeing propagated to the network
 988 2013-05-03 12:20:54 bwen has joined
 989 2013-05-03 12:21:22 <bwen> did you guys see this: https://blog.conformal.com/btcd-a-bitcoind-alternative-written-in-go/ ?
 990 2013-05-03 12:21:23 <bwen> :)
 991 2013-05-03 12:21:55 <lianj> bwen: would be nice to show sources and have a channel on freenode
 992 2013-05-03 12:22:58 <bwen> well they do have an irc channel, but its on the conformal server
 993 2013-05-03 12:23:08 <_dr> also, they are disqualified by forking off openbsd. everyone knows that disagreeing with theo is just wrong!!
 994 2013-05-03 12:23:09 <wumpus> bwen: it's good to have another implementation, but without source it's hard to say if it's any good :)
 995 2013-05-03 12:23:12 troj has joined
 996 2013-05-03 12:23:34 bitfreak has joined
 997 2013-05-03 12:23:52 <bwen> healthy competition :)
 998 2013-05-03 12:23:56 <jgm> Wonder if they opened the problems they found as issues?
 999 2013-05-03 12:24:04 rushed has joined
1000 2013-05-03 12:24:06 <jgm> bwen: not sure that real-money protocols work like that...
1001 2013-05-03 12:24:18 <wumpus> bitcoin is full of vapourware announcements, so I'm not holding my breath...
1002 2013-05-03 12:24:19 <sipa> bwen: if they try to be a full node, there's more at state than competition
1003 2013-05-03 12:24:21 <kauzu> wumpus: 7. follow the instructions in the script i linked earlier. ---i dont know what script/link he is talking about
1004 2013-05-03 12:24:29 <sipa> *stake
1005 2013-05-03 12:24:40 <jaromil> mmm, is Go really so awesome as they say? I'm still reluctant.
1006 2013-05-03 12:25:05 Sealy has joined
1007 2013-05-03 12:26:04 <bwen> sipa: maybe i'm not seeing all the implications... What if they do?
1008 2013-05-03 12:26:33 <bwen> if they comply with the protocol... whats the big deal...
1009 2013-05-03 12:26:46 <jgm> bwen: What if the Go implementation and the C++ implementation disagree on a valid transaction, for example?
1010 2013-05-03 12:27:10 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1011 2013-05-03 12:27:22 <wumpus> bwen: for a full validating node, all the transaction and block chain verification has to be exactly the same
1012 2013-05-03 12:27:29 <freefox> czaanja: there are conditions for your tx to be considered free, if the receiving client calculates a positive fee for that tx and you paid below that, it will reject it
1013 2013-05-03 12:27:30 <sipa> bwen: "complying with the protocol", if that includes exact replication of the network rules, that's an excrutiatingly hard task that i don't believe anyone can do right the first time
1014 2013-05-03 12:28:01 <sipa> bwen: and that's not their fault, but the fact that the network rules are embarrisingly but inevitable implementation-defined
1015 2013-05-03 12:28:30 <bwen> I see...
1016 2013-05-03 12:28:35 * jaromil murmurs repeteadly "excrutiatingly"
1017 2013-05-03 12:28:52 <sipa> i did spell it correctly, i hope? :p
1018 2013-05-03 12:29:16 <jaromil> might be excruciatingly but the result is there however
1019 2013-05-03 12:29:27 <wumpus> it's a lot of work and hard to get right, they wouldn't be the first to make a big announcement and then give up later :-)
1020 2013-05-03 12:29:35 <sipa> oh, yes!
1021 2013-05-03 12:30:10 <jaromil> from latin excoriatio
1022 2013-05-03 12:30:15 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1023 2013-05-03 12:30:23 <sipa> jgarzik: that vin empty problem indeed looks serious... it's only 0.8.0 and 0.8.1 that relay such transactions
1024 2013-05-03 12:32:39 bitit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1025 2013-05-03 12:33:21 bitit has joined
1026 2013-05-03 12:34:17 Transisto has joined
1027 2013-05-03 12:35:13 <TD> i would worry about a company that thinks the stated list of advantages is exclusive to go
1028 2013-05-03 12:35:16 <TD> but whatever
1029 2013-05-03 12:36:45 <czaanja> freefox: Thanx for that, ok I think I found the code responsible for this. So transaction without fee should not be accpeted even to the limited 15kB/minute relay of free transactions?
1030 2013-05-03 12:37:09 Plinker_ is now known as Plinker
1031 2013-05-03 12:37:12 rushed has quit (Quit: rushed)
1032 2013-05-03 12:37:37 <freefox> yes, if it can't be free then it'll be rejected
1033 2013-05-03 12:37:39 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1034 2013-05-03 12:39:19 lolcookie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1035 2013-05-03 12:40:32 dvide has joined
1036 2013-05-03 12:40:52 <czaanja> freefox: Ok, bude this minimal fee to consider tx "non free" may vary from client to client, true?
1037 2013-05-03 12:41:02 bitfreak has left ()
1038 2013-05-03 12:41:57 pera has quit (Quit: leaving)
1039 2013-05-03 12:43:08 <freefox> right, anyone can choose to relay it
1040 2013-05-03 12:44:27 gagecolton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1041 2013-05-03 12:44:50 TD has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1042 2013-05-03 12:45:42 _dr has quit (Quit: leaving)
1043 2013-05-03 12:48:30 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1044 2013-05-03 12:50:31 splnkr has joined
1045 2013-05-03 12:50:32 jim00001 has joined
1046 2013-05-03 12:51:03 jim00001 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1047 2013-05-03 12:53:44 jim00001 has joined
1048 2013-05-03 12:54:06 <czaanja> freefox: Thanx
1049 2013-05-03 12:55:19 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1050 2013-05-03 12:56:55 cc_8 has joined
1051 2013-05-03 12:56:55 cc_8 is now known as alphaguru
1052 2013-05-03 12:57:47 Btceldur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1053 2013-05-03 12:57:49 kauzu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1054 2013-05-03 12:58:53 systemParanoid has joined
1055 2013-05-03 13:02:29 lodse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1056 2013-05-03 13:05:43 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1057 2013-05-03 13:07:16 lolcookie has joined
1058 2013-05-03 13:07:23 imsaguy_s is now known as imsaguy
1059 2013-05-03 13:07:44 ThomasV has joined
1060 2013-05-03 13:08:34 <jgarzik> sipa: agree the vin-empty looks serious
1061 2013-05-03 13:08:46 <jgarzik> sipa: gmaxwell said 0.8.2 blocker, and I was inclined to agree
1062 2013-05-03 13:08:56 <sipa> jgarzik: agree
1063 2013-05-03 13:09:36 <sipa> well, we're less than 2 weeks from the hard fork, and i think the improvements in HEAD are already more than worth a new release despite not fixing all known bugs
1064 2013-05-03 13:10:09 falcon has joined
1065 2013-05-03 13:11:39 <freefox> what is this "alert" thing? can some people broadcast messages?
1066 2013-05-03 13:12:37 rottenchris has joined
1067 2013-05-03 13:14:42 swulf-- has joined
1068 2013-05-03 13:15:27 <alaricsp> freefox: Yeah, messages signed with a key held by the Foundation can be broadcast to all clients
1069 2013-05-03 13:15:37 <SomeoneWeird> freefox, gavin and one or two more people can
1070 2013-05-03 13:15:43 jdnavarro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1071 2013-05-03 13:15:57 <wumpus> freefox: yes, a message can be shown for a subset of versions, for example if a problem is found and an upgrade is needed
1072 2013-05-03 13:16:03 <alaricsp> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alerts
1073 2013-05-03 13:16:09 Guest51902 is now known as novusordo
1074 2013-05-03 13:16:39 novusordo is now known as Guest33666
1075 2013-05-03 13:16:51 <jgarzik> sipa: fair enough
1076 2013-05-03 13:16:51 <sipa> freefox: s/Foundation/Satoshi, Gavin, Theymos/
1077 2013-05-03 13:17:06 t7` has joined
1078 2013-05-03 13:17:09 <alaricsp> It was me that said that, but yeah
1079 2013-05-03 13:17:20 <sipa> eh
1080 2013-05-03 13:17:22 <sipa> yes!
1081 2013-05-03 13:17:30 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1082 2013-05-03 13:17:43 banghouse has joined
1083 2013-05-03 13:18:03 <SomeoneWeird> theymos has the key?
1084 2013-05-03 13:18:06 <SomeoneWeird> far out
1085 2013-05-03 13:18:07 t7` has quit (Client Quit)
1086 2013-05-03 13:18:16 <SomeoneWeird> i wouldn't trust him with this stick i just found on the ground >.>
1087 2013-05-03 13:18:20 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1088 2013-05-03 13:18:32 Guest33666 has quit (Changing host)
1089 2013-05-03 13:18:32 Guest33666 has joined
1090 2013-05-03 13:18:33 jonass has joined
1091 2013-05-03 13:18:52 <sipa> SomeoneWeird: well, he got the key from Satoshi :)
1092 2013-05-03 13:18:57 <SomeoneWeird> heh
1093 2013-05-03 13:19:06 <SomeoneWeird> ofc
1094 2013-05-03 13:19:10 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1095 2013-05-03 13:19:18 Guest33666 is now known as novusordo
1096 2013-05-03 13:19:29 skinnkavaj has joined
1097 2013-05-03 13:19:48 Jere_Jones has joined
1098 2013-05-03 13:19:50 taha has joined
1099 2013-05-03 13:21:19 <sipa> jgarzik: though i don't think such transaction can be relayed, so they must originate from the peers that send it directly
1100 2013-05-03 13:21:25 <sipa> jgarzik: which would imply it's wallet code
1101 2013-05-03 13:21:41 <sipa> perhaps somehow transactions that manage to get weird non-transactions as dependencies
1102 2013-05-03 13:23:18 BCB has joined
1103 2013-05-03 13:24:41 <jgarzik> sipa: RE relay, agree
1104 2013-05-03 13:24:57 <sydna> SomeoneWeird: there's got to be some trust in the dude, he holds a whole server full of bitcoin-related passwords
1105 2013-05-03 13:25:02 richcollins has joined
1106 2013-05-03 13:25:16 <BCB> jgarzik: is Gavin around?
1107 2013-05-03 13:25:24 <SomeoneWeird> sydna, lol funny
1108 2013-05-03 13:25:41 <jgarzik> BCB: do you see him around?
1109 2013-05-03 13:25:54 t7 has joined
1110 2013-05-03 13:26:00 <BCB> I'm on mobile.
1111 2013-05-03 13:26:11 <sydna> SomeoneWeird: is there any history behind that?
1112 2013-05-03 13:26:14 <BCB> No replay or tab
1113 2013-05-03 13:26:30 <BCB> Gavin. Yoohoo.
1114 2013-05-03 13:26:45 <sipa> types: /names
1115 2013-05-03 13:26:57 <SomeoneWeird> sydna, the fact that if you use the same password on bitcointalk as any other website it's your own fault. it's been hacked multiple times before
1116 2013-05-03 13:26:57 <sipa> ok, maybe don't
1117 2013-05-03 13:27:06 <SomeoneWeird> and he doesn't even care about the state of the forum
1118 2013-05-03 13:27:08 <SomeoneWeird> sooo
1119 2013-05-03 13:27:10 <SomeoneWeird> :
1120 2013-05-03 13:27:11 <SomeoneWeird> :)
1121 2013-05-03 13:27:14 grau has joined
1122 2013-05-03 13:27:32 Nash has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1123 2013-05-03 13:27:33 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1124 2013-05-03 13:28:02 tubby2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1125 2013-05-03 13:28:05 <sydna> SomeoneWeird: I most certainly don't, but everybody else in the world seems to. I imagine if anyone had access to the pseudonyms on bitcointalk and their passwords, a lot of blockchain.info wallets would be instantly looted. there's some comfort that they haven't (to my knowledge).
1126 2013-05-03 13:28:29 <SomeoneWeird> probably
1127 2013-05-03 13:28:41 <BCB> sipa: you going to San Jose?
1128 2013-05-03 13:28:52 <jaromil> its 2013. using the same password in more than one webservice is just not the thing any hacker should even think of doing.
1129 2013-05-03 13:29:26 <sydna> that said, I'm genuinely curious how many blockchain.info wallets have been cracked using offline attacks. a lot of people on the forums and reddit mentioned seeing access notifications when they were enabled.
1130 2013-05-03 13:29:55 <jgarzik> using the same password for multiple services does make life easier.
1131 2013-05-03 13:30:11 <jgarzik> I use the same password for everything, including my luggage: 1234
1132 2013-05-03 13:30:11 <sipa> BCB: yes
1133 2013-05-03 13:30:12 <michagogo> "Current Bitcoin versions no longer go into safe mode in response to alerts, though Bitcoin will still go into safe mode when it detects on its own that something is seriously wrong with the network."
1134 2013-05-03 13:30:24 <michagogo> What is "something seriously wrong"?
1135 2013-05-03 13:30:36 <sipa> michagogo: side chain that is longer than the real chain
1136 2013-05-03 13:30:39 <jaromil> jgarzik: lol. life its easier until you know what really happens in life.
1137 2013-05-03 13:30:39 <jgarzik> michagogo: no strict def
1138 2013-05-03 13:30:50 <michagogo> sipa: "side chain"?
1139 2013-05-03 13:30:51 <sipa> michagogo: or in other words: the longest chain is considered invalid
1140 2013-05-03 13:30:57 <t7> doesnt a side chain become a real chain  once its longer?
1141 2013-05-03 13:31:04 <sipa> t7: if it is valid, yes
1142 2013-05-03 13:31:05 <kjj> there is an assertion in the code that triggers safe mode if (2==3) ever returns true
1143 2013-05-03 13:31:10 <michagogo> t7: exactly what I was thinking
1144 2013-05-03 13:31:15 <kinlo> t7: yes, but miners mine on the longest chain...
1145 2013-05-03 13:31:26 tucenaber has joined
1146 2013-05-03 13:31:31 <michagogo> sipa: When is it considered invalid?
1147 2013-05-03 13:31:31 <kinlo> t7: so it's difficult to enlarge a sidechain, you need a lot of hashpower for that
1148 2013-05-03 13:31:38 <michagogo> You mean if it fails a checkpoint block?
1149 2013-05-03 13:31:41 <t7> not if they didnt receive it
1150 2013-05-03 13:31:42 <michagogo> Or something else?
1151 2013-05-03 13:31:49 <sipa> michagogo: when it does double spends, contains invalid signatures, ...
1152 2013-05-03 13:31:50 <sydna> jgarzik: I've seen at least one person link to a GUI for cracking "brain wallet" addresses. it's presumably quite profitable if people use the same passwords everywhere.
1153 2013-05-03 13:32:02 <sipa> michagogo: there's dozens of things that can go wrong
1154 2013-05-03 13:32:31 <michagogo> So safemode is basically "shut down and stop working"?
1155 2013-05-03 13:33:30 <sipa> michagogo: in practice, except during the few times when there were actually non-resolving network forks, it just triggers in case of database corruption
1156 2013-05-03 13:33:36 <troj> why anyone would use blockchain.info wallets is beyond me.
1157 2013-05-03 13:33:37 AndChat has joined
1158 2013-05-03 13:34:17 <sydna> troj: it's arguably the least safe place to store funds, except for other web based wallets. instawallet and strongcoin come to mind.
1159 2013-05-03 13:34:36 Plarkplark_ has joined
1160 2013-05-03 13:34:38 <t7> troj, free webservices
1161 2013-05-03 13:34:41 <Plarkplark_> THis is the problem with  bitcointalk.org
1162 2013-05-03 13:34:47 <Plarkplark_> Name Server:NS1.R4L.COM
1163 2013-05-03 13:34:50 <sydna> strongcoin.com is probably the worst offender, it claims to be secure when it clearly isn't. there's absolutely no client side encryption going on there.
1164 2013-05-03 13:34:54 <Plarkplark_> Do a nameserver-change at the Registrar to fix it.
1165 2013-05-03 13:35:02 <AndChat> 350625!~AndChat35@se1x.mullvad.net|Blockchain
1166 2013-05-03 13:35:06 <t7> troj, basicly a free api to send and receive payments for websites. I was looking at using it for a site
1167 2013-05-03 13:35:13 <sydna> (well there is, but it's stupidly implemented)
1168 2013-05-03 13:35:42 <sipa> sydna: imho, client-side encryption is a false sense of security anyway
1169 2013-05-03 13:35:47 bitit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1170 2013-05-03 13:36:03 <troj> not sure what you mean by client-side encryption here.
1171 2013-05-03 13:36:31 <sydna> troj: on websites like block chain.info, the server returns an encrypted wallet blob and does the decryption in javascript
1172 2013-05-03 13:36:32 <sipa> sydna: unless you actually take the effort of verifying the JS code every time it may have updated, they can selectively steal coins by changing the JS code they serve you when unlocking the wallet to send something
1173 2013-05-03 13:36:40 bitit has joined
1174 2013-05-03 13:37:07 <sydna> sipa: yes well, they have a "verifier" that does absolutely nothing. it checks for frames, and that's about it.
1175 2013-05-03 13:37:14 <troj> sydra, that would be great if the JS wasn't so easy to change. (in the context of XSS attacks, in particular)
1176 2013-05-03 13:37:24 <sydna> troj: exactly.
1177 2013-05-03 13:37:56 <sipa> imho, using a webwallet for convenience is fine if you trust them, but don't trust them *because* of offered featured likes that
1178 2013-05-03 13:38:14 <sipa> and know what you have to lose
1179 2013-05-03 13:38:21 <sydna> sipa: the current recommendation from the site regarding security is that you install their google chrome app. which begs the question, why not install a real client then?
1180 2013-05-03 13:38:29 <troj> It's not like receiving coins is difficult with a real wallet, anyway..
1181 2013-05-03 13:38:40 Steve132 has joined
1182 2013-05-03 13:39:24 Steve132 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1183 2013-05-03 13:39:51 <sydna> sipa: go read the introduction headings on https://www.strongcoin.com/ — you can sort of see why people get sucked in
1184 2013-05-03 13:39:52 <AndChat> 350625!~AndChat35@se1x.mullvad.net|Installing an extention just adds to attack surface
1185 2013-05-03 13:41:44 <sydna> so does allowing any visitor to the website to download your encrypted wallet blob and save it for an offline attack.
1186 2013-05-03 13:43:41 <petertodd> sydna: at least instawallet and easywallet give you privacy... so I'll call them better overall than blockchain.info
1187 2013-05-03 13:43:56 <sipa> petertodd: how so?
1188 2013-05-03 13:44:04 Btceldur has joined
1189 2013-05-03 13:44:25 <troj> i hardly believe any online wallet gives you privacy.
1190 2013-05-03 13:44:34 <sydna> they give you the same perceived privacy as using blockchain.info. proxy, VPN, Tor will all keep you isolated from the service.
1191 2013-05-03 13:44:56 <sydna> instawallet is gone anyway, they forgot to block Googlebot from indexing their pages and leaked all the wallet addresses.
1192 2013-05-03 13:45:10 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
1193 2013-05-03 13:45:31 Skav has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.6 Just need to be Chiznillen)
1194 2013-05-03 13:45:42 <troj> wonder how many pages google has indexed of blockchain.info and friends. :)
1195 2013-05-03 13:45:46 <petertodd> sipa: the coins come from a shared wallet so at least all I have to trust is the service
1196 2013-05-03 13:45:55 MobPhone has joined
1197 2013-05-03 13:46:00 da2ce7 has joined
1198 2013-05-03 13:46:08 <petertodd> sipa: I use easywallet for all misc payments
1199 2013-05-03 13:46:10 Siskiyou has joined
1200 2013-05-03 13:46:17 atweiden has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1201 2013-05-03 13:46:50 <petertodd> sydna: yup, I've got some inaccessible funds there. Still, better to trust one service to keep your tx details private, than put them on the blockchain for everyone to see.
1202 2013-05-03 13:47:10 <sydna> eek. easy wallet hasn't blocked their URL from Googlebot either..
1203 2013-05-03 13:47:33 * sydna smacks forehead 
1204 2013-05-03 13:47:38 <petertodd> sydna: It's not a blocking issue apparently, apparently google was harvesting URL's direct from chrome...
1205 2013-05-03 13:47:54 <sydna> that's correct, but you can remove them by adding a meta tag to the pages
1206 2013-05-03 13:48:03 <freefox> petertodd: is there evidence for that?
1207 2013-05-03 13:48:28 <freefox> if that's true I'm glad I don't use chrome
1208 2013-05-03 13:48:30 <sydna> it's in Google's TOS somewhere, essentially they use the autocomplete feature in chrome to fill their googlebot queues.
1209 2013-05-03 13:48:44 <petertodd> freefox: what sydna said...
1210 2013-05-03 13:48:46 <Ry4an> or by using google webmaster tools to exclude parts of your site (which robots.txt doesn't do -- it only stops the crawler)
1211 2013-05-03 13:48:52 * petertodd uses easywallet over tor...
1212 2013-05-03 13:49:03 * petertodd with firefox
1213 2013-05-03 13:49:18 <sydna> I've seen it on my own server too, URLs that have no incoming links suddenly have googlebot arrive when a chrome user is shown the link.
1214 2013-05-03 13:49:18 <troj> Why would you actually trust google not to crawl your site when you ask it nicely not to?
1215 2013-05-03 13:49:39 <Ry4an> using easywallet over tor is a terrible idea because your tor exit node can see the URL then.
1216 2013-05-03 13:49:42 <t7> because do not evil.jpg
1217 2013-05-03 13:49:48 <freefox> do they use SSL?
1218 2013-05-03 13:49:50 <sydna> Ry4an: that's incorrect
1219 2013-05-03 13:49:54 <troj> Always assume your site will be crawled. Do something about it.
1220 2013-05-03 13:50:00 <petertodd> Ry4an: no, easywallet is over ssl
1221 2013-05-03 13:50:11 AndChat has quit (350625!~AndChat35@se1x.mullvad.net|Remote host closed the connection)
1222 2013-05-03 13:50:14 <sydna> with SSL the tor exit node will just see the IP address (and consequently the domain)
1223 2013-05-03 13:50:29 czaanja has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1224 2013-05-03 13:51:03 <Ry4an> you also see the hostname if the browser is using SNI (yours probably is), but I suppose you're right that as an exit node I'd have to MITM to get your URL.
1225 2013-05-03 13:51:14 <freefox> it's still horrible anyway,
1226 2013-05-03 13:51:38 drizztbsd has joined
1227 2013-05-03 13:51:55 <sydna> agreed, especially as people don't realise and store huge amounts in there. there was someone on reddit who had stored 200+ BTC in instawallet.
1228 2013-05-03 13:51:59 <petertodd> Ry4an: yup, MITMs are certainely possible mind given the atrocious state of SSL CA's, but I keep spare change at easywallet, not my savings
1229 2013-05-03 13:52:01 <Ry4an> yeah, trusting URLs as passwords is inane
1230 2013-05-03 13:52:05 t7 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1231 2013-05-03 13:52:34 <sydna> Ry4an: not even that, you're trusting the security of the instawallet server, and that the server OPs won't disapear
1232 2013-05-03 13:52:58 <Ry4an> sydna: also that.
1233 2013-05-03 13:52:58 <petertodd> sydna: absolutely, or that they won't just plain screw up
1234 2013-05-03 13:53:14 <sydna> hahahah! they're so lucky. instawallet is hosted on OVH.
1235 2013-05-03 13:53:25 <da2ce7> It is a pity.  Https urls should be secure.  Just that chrome is Shit.
1236 2013-05-03 13:53:33 <sydna> you know, the VPN host that had predictable password resets leading to slushes pool being compromised.
1237 2013-05-03 13:53:42 <sydna> *VPS
1238 2013-05-03 13:54:01 <freefox> and what happens when you visit a URL and that page contains google tracking javascript?
1239 2013-05-03 13:54:04 <petertodd> if bitcoin has done anything good for security, it's been by exposing bad VPS providers...
1240 2013-05-03 13:54:17 <sydna> freefox: Google sees it, and can modify the page contents if they wanted to
1241 2013-05-03 13:54:27 <freefox> and they get the URL right?
1242 2013-05-03 13:54:31 <sydna> yes
1243 2013-05-03 13:55:02 <sydna> petertodd: Linode stores their credit card private key on a public server, OVH had predictable password resets, who else?
1244 2013-05-03 13:55:47 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1245 2013-05-03 13:55:50 <Ry4an> sydna: the linode thing _may_ have been bluster. The CC details were never demonstrated.
1246 2013-05-03 13:56:35 <Ry4an> I cancelled teh CC I had with them all the same, but there's no evidence the CC data was spilled, just an unacceptable lot of other stuff. :(
1247 2013-05-03 13:56:50 bitit has joined
1248 2013-05-03 13:56:55 falcon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1249 2013-05-03 13:57:07 <sydna> they did admit that the CC database was leaked and the private key was stored in the same folder.
1250 2013-05-03 13:57:27 <sydna> the only thing protecting the contents is the password on the private key. they keep tweeting about how long the password is.
1251 2013-05-03 13:57:50 Xeno-Genesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1252 2013-05-03 13:58:56 <petertodd> sydna: amazon ec2 hasn't had any problems, yet...
1253 2013-05-03 13:59:33 <Ry4an> sydna: link?  I read their meager-confession and I didn't see that detail.  Definitely disappointing.
1254 2013-05-03 14:00:11 <sydna> Ry4an: sec.
1255 2013-05-03 14:01:13 <freefox> can't we just set -blockmaxsize to a higher value?
1256 2013-05-03 14:01:15 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1257 2013-05-03 14:01:51 <sydna> Ry4an: "There were occurrences of Lish passwords in clear text in our database. "
1258 2013-05-03 14:01:55 <sydna> Ry4an: "Credit card numbers in our database are stored in encrypted format, using public and private key encryption. The private key is itself encrypted with passphrase encryption and the complex passphrase is not stored electronically."
1259 2013-05-03 14:02:14 <Ry4an> freefox: the reasons why that's not the silver bullet you think it is are really well documented and easy to google up.
1260 2013-05-03 14:02:29 <sydna> Ry4an: second one implies that the private key was taken too, but I can't find the reference for that right now.
1261 2013-05-03 14:03:11 <Ry4an> yeah, I guess I don't take that to mean that either the encrypted CC data or the encrypted private key were accessed.  I read it as "even if, then no big deal".
1262 2013-05-03 14:03:29 <freefox> Ry4an: ok, I will :)
1263 2013-05-03 14:03:34 <Ry4an> Bleive me, I'm not saying I like how they handle themsleves, but I don't know they did it that wrong.
1264 2013-05-03 14:03:40 slothbag has quit (Quit: I quit!)
1265 2013-05-03 14:03:56 <Ry4an> Here's and older and great comparison of how poorly linode handled pevious fuckups: https://pinboard.in/cached/ab0fc22a4aa0/
1266 2013-05-03 14:05:13 <sydna> this is a conversation between Linode and the hacker, which I thought was quite amusing. he posts the contents of their server and they still don't believe him — http://turtle.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/linode/linode-abridged.txt
1267 2013-05-03 14:07:02 alphaguru has quit ()
1268 2013-05-03 14:07:15 da2ce7-mobile has joined
1269 2013-05-03 14:07:15 fishfish has quit (Quit: Bye!)
1270 2013-05-03 14:07:42 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1271 2013-05-03 14:07:42 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1272 2013-05-03 14:09:01 <Ry4an> Yeah, reading that during the event was what had me go through the hassle of cancelling that credit card, but he never demonstrates the CC info, which in a PCI setup is on a different machine.
1273 2013-05-03 14:09:14 <Ry4an> At any rate they're borderline incompetant, but so is everyone else. :(
1274 2013-05-03 14:09:36 rushed has joined
1275 2013-05-03 14:09:36 malaimo has joined
1276 2013-05-03 14:09:44 da2ce7_d has joined
1277 2013-05-03 14:10:08 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1278 2013-05-03 14:11:26 <sydna> I suppose that's the issue really, anybody hosting high value targets like bit coin pools are easy picking
1279 2013-05-03 14:11:59 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1280 2013-05-03 14:13:53 rushed has quit (Client Quit)
1281 2013-05-03 14:14:32 Siskiyou has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1282 2013-05-03 14:15:03 debiantoruser has joined
1283 2013-05-03 14:15:37 scripting has joined
1284 2013-05-03 14:15:58 <scripting> Is there an official answer to how many confirmations are really needed to avoid double spending?
1285 2013-05-03 14:16:13 <scripting> I'm guessing 6 what most clients use is an overkill?
1286 2013-05-03 14:16:27 <scripting> Any devs can give me an official answer/
1287 2013-05-03 14:16:52 XertroV has joined
1288 2013-05-03 14:17:14 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1289 2013-05-03 14:17:23 <SomeoneWeird> there's nothing 'official' in the bitcoin world
1290 2013-05-03 14:17:43 <SomeoneWeird> and no, it's not overkill
1291 2013-05-03 14:17:51 <SomeoneWeird> why would they be using it if it's overkill
1292 2013-05-03 14:18:22 Steve132 has joined
1293 2013-05-03 14:18:29 <scripting> so what happens technically if a bitcoin is double spent, after say the second transaction
1294 2013-05-03 14:18:36 <scripting> that node realises its being double spent?
1295 2013-05-03 14:19:11 canoon has joined
1296 2013-05-03 14:19:18 <scripting> are the confirmations "undone" somehow?
1297 2013-05-03 14:20:19 simondlr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1298 2013-05-03 14:20:50 <sipa> yes
1299 2013-05-03 14:22:02 egis has joined
1300 2013-05-03 14:22:15 Springy has joined
1301 2013-05-03 14:22:34 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1302 2013-05-03 14:22:39 Springy is now known as Guest99604
1303 2013-05-03 14:22:41 czaanja has joined
1304 2013-05-03 14:22:51 <scripting> so sipa is 6 confirmations really needed?
1305 2013-05-03 14:22:59 <scripting> whats the technical aspect behind that number?
1306 2013-05-03 14:23:15 FredEE has joined
1307 2013-05-03 14:23:17 <Ry4an> scripting: it's not derived, and "enough" depends on how much you'd mind losing that money.
1308 2013-05-03 14:23:28 <Ry4an> For say the price of a soda 0 is probably plenty.
1309 2013-05-03 14:23:38 <scripting> hahahaa
1310 2013-05-03 14:23:48 SirDefaced has joined
1311 2013-05-03 14:23:52 <scripting> so I could have a algothirm based on risk in essense?
1312 2013-05-03 14:23:59 <scripting> 1 confirmation may be enough?
1313 2013-05-03 14:24:04 <Ry4an> sure.
1314 2013-05-03 14:24:05 <scripting> for less than 1 bitcoin
1315 2013-05-03 14:24:15 <scripting> neat
1316 2013-05-03 14:24:17 filleokus has quit (Excess Flood)
1317 2013-05-03 14:24:23 da2ce7-mobile has quit (Quit: Bye)
1318 2013-05-03 14:24:34 <sydna> read up about the different double spend attacks to get an idea of the relative risks — https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending
1319 2013-05-03 14:24:36 <Ry4an> Were I, say, selling my house I'd probably want to wait for 12 before signing a deed. :)
1320 2013-05-03 14:24:39 <ThomasV> etotheipi_: hey, do you have an off-bitcointalk version of yesterday's post?
1321 2013-05-03 14:24:51 <scripting> ;P
1322 2013-05-03 14:24:55 <SirDefaced> this building bitcoin-qt experiment that i have been working on for 3 days, is just becoming a nightmare
1323 2013-05-03 14:25:04 <Ry4an> scripting: this covers a lot of what you just asked: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Confirmation
1324 2013-05-03 14:25:21 tonikt has joined
1325 2013-05-03 14:25:26 <sydna> ThomasV: bitcointalk.org is still up, just the DNS is faulty — https://0x6d.0xc9.0x85.0x41/
1326 2013-05-03 14:25:45 <ThomasV> oh ok
1327 2013-05-03 14:25:53 melvster1 has joined
1328 2013-05-03 14:25:54 <SirDefaced> i can compile bitcoin-qt and bitcoind for linux with np. but cross compiling for windows in linux. headache. -,-
1329 2013-05-03 14:26:05 filleokus has joined
1330 2013-05-03 14:26:25 <scripting> sounds like 1 confirmation is more than plenty
1331 2013-05-03 14:26:25 Plarkplark_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1332 2013-05-03 14:26:25 lolcookie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1333 2013-05-03 14:26:25 <scripting> for most cases
1334 2013-05-03 14:26:25 <scripting> from what I read
1335 2013-05-03 14:26:33 Guest99604 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1336 2013-05-03 14:26:41 lolcookie has joined
1337 2013-05-03 14:26:47 <sydna> unless you have a large number of coins at stake, and the participation of an evil miner
1338 2013-05-03 14:26:54 <scripting> specially if there is a must bigger threshold on "cashing out" after that innitial confirmation
1339 2013-05-03 14:26:55 <sydna> (unlikely)
1340 2013-05-03 14:27:20 <michagogo> scripting: Personally, I'd wait for at least 2 or 3
1341 2013-05-03 14:27:26 GWings has joined
1342 2013-05-03 14:27:33 <michagogo> Wouldn't need an evil miner involved
1343 2013-05-03 14:27:38 <sydna> ideally if you were selling socks for bitcoin, you would accept a zero confirmation transaction for the order initially, but not pack and ship the socks until you had at least 6 confirmations.
1344 2013-05-03 14:28:00 <Ry4an> the point is it's all about context.  When I'm accepting BTC from my coworkers for lunch 0 is plenty.
1345 2013-05-03 14:28:02 <helo> scripting: 1 confirmation is reversed on a fairly regular basis
1346 2013-05-03 14:28:06 PrinceCortex has joined
1347 2013-05-03 14:28:07 freefox has quit (Quit: freefox)
1348 2013-05-03 14:28:45 <helo> not intentionally ofc
1349 2013-05-03 14:28:49 daughterly has joined
1350 2013-05-03 14:29:10 <michagogo> If the transactions are sent very close together in terms of time, very far from each other on the network, and half the miners get one transaction first, and the other half get the other transaction first, and 2 blocks are found close together, each by a miner with a different transaction, that will be a double-spend with 2 confirmations
1351 2013-05-03 14:29:13 <michagogo> 1 confirmation*
1352 2013-05-03 14:29:31 <sydna> you'd have to be quite lucky to manage that though
1353 2013-05-03 14:29:37 <michagogo> Yeah, it's unlikely
1354 2013-05-03 14:29:52 arrrrr has joined
1355 2013-05-03 14:29:54 <michagogo> But that happening and persisting after 2 confirmations is even more unlikely
1356 2013-05-03 14:30:31 <michagogo> And, unless there *is* an evil miner, you could probably even do "x minutes after 1 confirmation"
1357 2013-05-03 14:31:17 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1358 2013-05-03 14:31:20 <sydna> once you get into evil minor territory, bashing gmaxweII over the head with a $5 wrench is sounding a lot more profitable.
1359 2013-05-03 14:31:46 rottenchris has left ()
1360 2013-05-03 14:31:49 XertroV has joined
1361 2013-05-03 14:32:11 <Ry4an> You would be hard pressed to get that wrench for $5
1362 2013-05-03 14:32:13 XertroV has quit (Client Quit)
1363 2013-05-03 14:32:56 <sydna> http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/wrenches/6-inch-steel-adjustable-wrench-67149.html
1364 2013-05-03 14:32:59 <sydna> $2.19
1365 2013-05-03 14:33:05 MobPhone_ has joined
1366 2013-05-03 14:33:26 <Ry4an> heh, I was just quoting the alt text.
1367 2013-05-03 14:33:48 rdymac has joined
1368 2013-05-03 14:33:56 <sydna> I felt like proving randall wrong
1369 2013-05-03 14:34:06 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1370 2013-05-03 14:35:01 <scripting> or just do 2 confirmations
1371 2013-05-03 14:35:15 <scripting> because after 1 confirmation the second is usually fast to come by
1372 2013-05-03 14:35:45 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
1373 2013-05-03 14:35:58 <michagogo> scripting: Not necessarily
1374 2013-05-03 14:36:01 <michagogo> It's the next block
1375 2013-05-03 14:36:09 <michagogo> So anywhere from a second to over an hour
1376 2013-05-03 14:36:28 <scripting> why does the next block takes that long?
1377 2013-05-03 14:36:29 MobPhone has joined
1378 2013-05-03 14:36:36 <SomeoneWeird> <scripting> because after 1 confirmation the second is usually fast to come by < lol no
1379 2013-05-03 14:36:38 <scripting> up to 1 hour I mean
1380 2013-05-03 14:36:44 <SomeoneWeird> because maths
1381 2013-05-03 14:36:50 <SomeoneWeird> it could take days
1382 2013-05-03 14:36:54 <SomeoneWeird> to get another block
1383 2013-05-03 14:36:55 <scripting> ....
1384 2013-05-03 14:37:03 <SomeoneWeird> it's mathematical probabilities
1385 2013-05-03 14:37:04 <scripting> I never seen that happen
1386 2013-05-03 14:37:13 <SomeoneWeird> because it hasn't
1387 2013-05-03 14:37:15 <SomeoneWeird> but it can
1388 2013-05-03 14:37:17 <michagogo> SomeoneWeird: *could*, but very unlikely
1389 2013-05-03 14:37:22 <SomeoneWeird> i know
1390 2013-05-03 14:37:24 MobPhone_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1391 2013-05-03 14:37:27 <SomeoneWeird> just trying to explain it to him
1392 2013-05-03 14:37:31 <scripting> well I wanna do it based on whats very likelly
1393 2013-05-03 14:37:36 <scripting> not an improbability
1394 2013-05-03 14:37:38 <scripting> 1 in a trillion
1395 2013-05-03 14:37:42 <scripting> or smaller
1396 2013-05-03 14:37:43 <SomeoneWeird> it's all probability
1397 2013-05-03 14:37:45 <scripting> i dont care about that :P
1398 2013-05-03 14:37:46 fuccboi00 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1399 2013-05-03 14:37:51 <michagogo> I mean, unless all the ASIC manufacturers have a self-destruct button that takes all ASICs out of commission and drops the hashrate drastically
1400 2013-05-03 14:37:54 <SomeoneWeird> it's impossible to know when the next block is going to be solved
1401 2013-05-03 14:37:59 <scripting> how long does the second block usually come by in?
1402 2013-05-03 14:38:04 <sydna> there's a command to work out the probability, but I've forgotten it
1403 2013-05-03 14:38:10 <michagogo> scripting: It's just the next block to be mined
1404 2013-05-03 14:38:14 <scripting> whats the "common" on that bell curve?
1405 2013-05-03 14:38:19 <SomeoneWeird> sydna, thats 50% probability on average
1406 2013-05-03 14:38:27 <scripting> isnt that like about 10 minutes usually?
1407 2013-05-03 14:38:33 <SomeoneWeird> usually
1408 2013-05-03 14:38:44 <SomeoneWeird> but there's been a lot lately that havn't been
1409 2013-05-03 14:39:16 <michagogo> Last block was 27 minutes ago
1410 2013-05-03 14:39:18 <harriorri1> It averages out at 10 min over-time
1411 2013-05-03 14:39:23 <michagogo> There was one 3 minutes before that
1412 2013-05-03 14:39:23 <Diablo-D3> scripting: around 8-9 minutes
1413 2013-05-03 14:39:26 <Diablo-D3> it aims for 10
1414 2013-05-03 14:39:29 <michagogo> And then 1 minute before that
1415 2013-05-03 14:39:37 <michagogo> And then 23 before that
1416 2013-05-03 14:39:44 <scripting> pretty random
1417 2013-05-03 14:39:44 <michagogo> And 1 before that
1418 2013-05-03 14:39:47 <scripting> lol
1419 2013-05-03 14:39:52 <michagogo> then 12 before that
1420 2013-05-03 14:40:05 <michagogo> And then 13 before that
1421 2013-05-03 14:40:10 <michagogo> etc
1422 2013-05-03 14:40:11 <SomeoneWeird> <scripting> pretty random < my point exactly
1423 2013-05-03 14:40:15 <michagogo> ;;help
1424 2013-05-03 14:40:15 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1425 2013-05-03 14:40:19 <michagogo> ;;list
1426 2013-05-03 14:40:19 <scripting> so basically 1 confirmation is probably best if there is no "cashout" for at least a 6 hours after the recived transaction
1427 2013-05-03 14:40:19 <gribble> Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, BadWords, BitcoinData, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Debug, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, GPG, GPGExt, Games, Gatekeeper, Google, Internet, Later, Market, Math, MessageParser, Misc, Network, OTCOrderBook, Owner, Plugin, RSS, RatingSystem, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, Unix, User, (1 more message)
1428 2013-05-03 14:40:19 arrrrr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1429 2013-05-03 14:40:30 <michagogo> ;;list bitcoindata
1430 2013-05-03 14:40:30 <gribble> avgprc, bcstats, blockdiff, blocks, bounty, diff, diffchange, estimate, genprob, genrate, gentime, halfreward, hextarget, interval, nethash, nextretarget, prevdiff, prevdiffchange, tblb, timetonext, totalbc, and tslb
1431 2013-05-03 14:40:32 <SomeoneWeird> ;;bc,genrate
1432 2013-05-03 14:40:33 <gribble> Error: "bc,genrate" is not a valid command.
1433 2013-05-03 14:40:37 <SomeoneWeird> ;;genrate
1434 2013-05-03 14:40:37 <gribble> (genrate <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected bitcoin generation rate using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
1435 2013-05-03 14:40:38 <sydna> tblb 3600
1436 2013-05-03 14:40:39 <michagogo> ;;help tblb
1437 2013-05-03 14:40:39 <gribble> (tblb <interval>) -- Calculate the expected time between blocks which take at least <interval> seconds to create. To provide the <interval> argument, a nested 'seconds' command may be helpful.
1438 2013-05-03 14:40:44 <SomeoneWeird> ;;tslb
1439 2013-05-03 14:40:46 ikea_meatballs has joined
1440 2013-05-03 14:40:48 <gribble> Time since last block: 29 minutes and 22 seconds
1441 2013-05-03 14:40:49 <SomeoneWeird> :)
1442 2013-05-03 14:40:52 <michagogo> ;;help seconds
1443 2013-05-03 14:40:52 <gribble> (seconds [<years>y] [<weeks>w] [<days>d] [<hours>h] [<minutes>m] [<seconds>s]) -- Returns the number of seconds in the number of <years>, <weeks>, <days>, <hours>, <minutes>, and <seconds> given. An example usage is "seconds 2h 30m", which would return 9000, which is '3600*2 + 30*60'. Useful for scheduling events at a given number of seconds in the future.
1444 2013-05-03 14:40:52 <sydna> ;;tblb 7200
1445 2013-05-03 14:40:54 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 2 hours and 0 seconds to generate is 3 years, 4 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 24 minutes, and 34 seconds
1446 2013-05-03 14:40:59 <sydna> there we go
1447 2013-05-03 14:41:03 <kjj> seriously?  use messages dude
1448 2013-05-03 14:41:16 <SomeoneWeird> kjj, he's showing scripting, it's fine
1449 2013-05-03 14:41:16 ikea_meatballs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1450 2013-05-03 14:41:16 sydna has left ()
1451 2013-05-03 14:41:20 <harriorri1> ;;tblb 1
1452 2013-05-03 14:41:22 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 second to generate is 10 minutes and 1 second
1453 2013-05-03 14:41:22 sydna has joined
1454 2013-05-03 14:41:25 <michagogo> ;;tblb 3600
1455 2013-05-03 14:41:26 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 hour and 0 seconds to generate is 2 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds
1456 2013-05-03 14:41:43 <sydna> so unlikely, but not improbable
1457 2013-05-03 14:41:53 <scripting> I'm just going to do 1 confirmation since even with 1 its unlikely for double spending right?
1458 2013-05-03 14:42:09 <SomeoneWeird> depends how large you expect transactions to be
1459 2013-05-03 14:42:14 <michagogo> scripting: Double spending is unlikely even with 0 transactions
1460 2013-05-03 14:42:15 <scripting> and if there is a risk API in place that makes sure that amount can't be transfered away from the system till at least 6 confirmations?
1461 2013-05-03 14:42:26 <SomeoneWeird> if it's a few dollars, 1 conf is fine
1462 2013-05-03 14:42:37 <michagogo> scripting: 1 confirmation is not that much more unlikely than 0 confirmations
1463 2013-05-03 14:42:39 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
1464 2013-05-03 14:42:39 MobPhone has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.6 Just need to be Chiznillen)
1465 2013-05-03 14:42:45 <michagogo> I'd wait for 2 for any significant value
1466 2013-05-03 14:42:50 <michagogo> (at least)
1467 2013-05-03 14:42:52 <scripting> ok 2 it is then ;)
1468 2013-05-03 14:42:57 <scripting> i'm happy with that number
1469 2013-05-03 14:43:02 <sydna> having one confirmation at least means the TX is in the block chain. lots of 0-fee TX never make it that far.
1470 2013-05-03 14:43:02 meefozio has joined
1471 2013-05-03 14:43:05 <scripting> because is means in avarage a 20 minute wait
1472 2013-05-03 14:43:08 <scripting> to use funds
1473 2013-05-03 14:43:12 MobPhone has joined
1474 2013-05-03 14:43:35 <michagogo> sydna: You do have a point there
1475 2013-05-03 14:43:59 <scripting> whats the minimum fee now days so it gets processed?
1476 2013-05-03 14:44:04 <scripting> 0.005?
1477 2013-05-03 14:44:08 <scripting> or less?
1478 2013-05-03 14:44:19 <sydna> 0.0001 seems to be a guarantee for the next block
1479 2013-05-03 14:44:29 <Scrat> sydna: 0.0005
1480 2013-05-03 14:44:48 <scripting> I'll write that down
1481 2013-05-03 14:45:07 harriorri1 is now known as HarriOrri
1482 2013-05-03 14:45:08 <sydna> Scrat: I've not had too much issue with 0.0001, have I just been getting lucky?
1483 2013-05-03 14:45:32 <scripting> probably its probably almost the same value as paying nothing I'd imagine
1484 2013-05-03 14:45:44 <scripting> since their looking for that 0.0005 threshold
1485 2013-05-03 14:45:48 moarrr has joined
1486 2013-05-03 14:45:56 <moarrr> seriously, guys, why is bitcoin so friggin slow?
1487 2013-05-03 14:46:09 <Scrat> because
1488 2013-05-03 14:46:11 <Scrat> ;;tslb
1489 2013-05-03 14:46:15 <gribble> Time since last block: 34 minutes and 49 seconds
1490 2013-05-03 14:46:17 <scripting> because its based on mining and uploading blocks ;P
1491 2013-05-03 14:46:19 nus-- is now known as nus
1492 2013-05-03 14:46:21 <Ry4an> moarrr: it depends how hard you throw them.
1493 2013-05-03 14:46:29 <moarrr> im not referring to that, it seems to take 5 minutes just to startup
1494 2013-05-03 14:46:33 <scripting> and this newest block discovery is particularly slow
1495 2013-05-03 14:46:34 <Scrat> sydna: probably
1496 2013-05-03 14:46:46 <sydna> moarrr: you can reduce that by turning down the level of verification
1497 2013-05-03 14:46:58 <moarrr> O_o
1498 2013-05-03 14:47:02 <Scrat> where's that website with average block inclusion times for fee/input size
1499 2013-05-03 14:47:04 <sydna> moarrr: on startup the application checks the last hundred blocks or so by default
1500 2013-05-03 14:47:10 FredEE has joined
1501 2013-05-03 14:47:20 <moarrr> but, i want things to be verified
1502 2013-05-03 14:47:22 <moarrr> :(
1503 2013-05-03 14:47:26 <sydna> so, turn it down
1504 2013-05-03 14:47:30 <sydna> it's a line in bitcoin.conf
1505 2013-05-03 14:47:41 <moarrr> lol i give up
1506 2013-05-03 14:47:52 <Ry4an> Scrat: http://bitcoin.speedstats.org/
1507 2013-05-03 14:48:14 <Scrat> Ry4an: ty
1508 2013-05-03 14:48:40 <Scrat> check it out sydna, almost 5 times more with 0.0001
1509 2013-05-03 14:48:44 <Scrat> unless value is >10
1510 2013-05-03 14:48:48 paracyst has joined
1511 2013-05-03 14:48:48 lolcookie is now known as lolcookie|bull
1512 2013-05-03 14:49:08 <sydna> the value of the TX isn't an issue though, it's the size of the inputs and outputs
1513 2013-05-03 14:49:45 agricocb has joined
1514 2013-05-03 14:50:27 <sydna> shouldn't the table have the size of the transaction rather than the value?
1515 2013-05-03 14:50:40 <Scrat> probably
1516 2013-05-03 14:50:41 <scripting> Has there been any event where 3 confirmations or so have been "undone" by the network?
1517 2013-05-03 14:50:48 <scripting> Has that ever happened historically?
1518 2013-05-03 14:50:52 <helo> scripting: definitely
1519 2013-05-03 14:51:07 <SomeoneWeird> lots of times
1520 2013-05-03 14:51:12 <scripting> was it during that network split crisis?
1521 2013-05-03 14:51:14 <helo> scripting: it happened most recently (afaik) during the 0.7/0.8 incompatability bug
1522 2013-05-03 14:51:18 <scripting> yeah
1523 2013-05-03 14:51:21 <scripting> I imagined so
1524 2013-05-03 14:51:26 <SomeoneWeird> reorgs happen all the time
1525 2013-05-03 14:51:27 <scripting> even 6 confirmations?
1526 2013-05-03 14:51:38 <helo> that time it was >10 confirmations iirc
1527 2013-05-03 14:51:42 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
1528 2013-05-03 14:51:46 <MC1984_> the bug wound back 100 confirms i think
1529 2013-05-03 14:51:46 GordonG3kko has joined
1530 2013-05-03 14:51:54 <MC1984_> on the .8 side
1531 2013-05-03 14:51:56 <scripting> thats ugly :P
1532 2013-05-03 14:52:08 <scripting> will such thing happen again in future?
1533 2013-05-03 14:52:13 <SomeoneWeird> probably
1534 2013-05-03 14:52:30 <MC1984_> the funny thing is that until may 15th the network is still in danger of spontaineously combusting apparently
1535 2013-05-03 14:52:34 <scripting> what happens if someone just sold like 1000 coins
1536 2013-05-03 14:52:40 <scripting> and that happened
1537 2013-05-03 14:52:42 agricocb has quit (Client Quit)
1538 2013-05-03 14:52:44 <scripting> they get their free coins back?
1539 2013-05-03 14:52:45 <helo> scripting: that did happen :)
1540 2013-05-03 14:52:46 <SomeoneWeird> the exchanged lock themselved down
1541 2013-05-03 14:52:50 <scripting> wtf.
1542 2013-05-03 14:52:51 <sydna> this block is the one that orphaned after ~33 confirmations, though that is unusual — http://blockchain.info/block-index/358539/00000000000002d74c31d9c9f8e4768c0b51c3f145be07be7e77af0146144c30
1543 2013-05-03 14:52:51 <SomeoneWeird> s/d/s/
1544 2013-05-03 14:53:04 <scripting> they got free money (bitcoins) back?
1545 2013-05-03 14:53:47 <helo> scripting: yep. it was unintentional though.
1546 2013-05-03 14:54:04 moarrr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1547 2013-05-03 14:54:05 <helo> scripting: they settled up with the buyer (okpay)
1548 2013-05-03 14:54:12 <scripting> so how many coins was that particular 33 confirms transaction?
1549 2013-05-03 14:54:21 <helo> google "okpay double spend"
1550 2013-05-03 14:54:35 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
1551 2013-05-03 14:54:37 <michagogo> MC1984_: Still in danger? Hmm?
1552 2013-05-03 14:55:07 <scripting> ~15,979 coins?
1553 2013-05-03 14:55:11 <scripting> were regained?
1554 2013-05-03 14:55:14 <MC1984_> the locks bug can be triggered with a network full of .7 nodes too
1555 2013-05-03 14:55:23 <MC1984_> cos bdb is a peice of shit
1556 2013-05-03 14:55:34 <sydna> just blame Slush for mining the big block.
1557 2013-05-03 14:55:42 <helo> scripting: https://109.201.133.65/index.php?topic=152348.0 (ignore the security warning, that is bitcointalk's temp IP)
1558 2013-05-03 14:55:51 <helo> but i wouldn't recommend logging in ;)
1559 2013-05-03 14:55:58 <MC1984_> what hapened to the forum
1560 2013-05-03 14:56:12 <sydna> Sirius transferred the domain and didn't set new NS
1561 2013-05-03 14:56:20 <lupine> WFM, etc
1562 2013-05-03 14:56:28 <MC1984_> lol
1563 2013-05-03 14:57:00 <sydna> Theymos was around before and asked someone to contact them. don't know if anyone did, but there you go.
1564 2013-05-03 14:57:47 jaequery has joined
1565 2013-05-03 14:58:16 owowo has joined
1566 2013-05-03 14:59:45 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1567 2013-05-03 15:00:54 gavinandresen has joined
1568 2013-05-03 15:00:54 gavinandresen has quit (Changing host)
1569 2013-05-03 15:00:54 gavinandresen has joined
1570 2013-05-03 15:01:00 g0thX has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1571 2013-05-03 15:02:01 sydna has quit (Quit: sydna)
1572 2013-05-03 15:02:51 dino__ has joined
1573 2013-05-03 15:05:01 <dino__> Good morning:  Question about monitoring an address.  i thinking of developing an online game, like Satoshi Dice, or the bitcoin roulette sites.  It seems like they all have some way of monitoring an address to see when people bet.  Any ideas/suggestions on how they're doing this?  I guess using the RPC interface to bitcoind would work, but that might get inefficient with a large volume of transactions.  Looking for
1574 2013-05-03 15:05:03 <dino__>  suggestions.  Thanks
1575 2013-05-03 15:06:00 PrinceCortex has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1576 2013-05-03 15:06:49 eklass has left ()
1577 2013-05-03 15:06:50 <gavinandresen> dino__: I believe they're using the bitcoinj library to look for the transactions that they're interested in.  You could use bitcoind -walletnotify=<run command>
1578 2013-05-03 15:07:37 <dino__> gavinandresen:  Hmmm.  if I use bitcoind, doesn't that mean I'd be using the roc interface?  Or is there another way?
1579 2013-05-03 15:07:56 <SomeoneWeird> rpc*
1580 2013-05-03 15:08:14 <dino__> I've seen some sites that generate a new address for each person or game play, so they're churning a ton.  would that get troubleseome
1581 2013-05-03 15:08:22 <dino__> SomeoneWeird: thanks
1582 2013-05-03 15:08:29 <jgarzik> dino__: Please consider something that doesn't dump massive amounts of data into the blockchain :)
1583 2013-05-03 15:08:34 <gavinandresen> SUre there's another way, you could sit in front of a monitor all day long and manually respond as you see transactions appear in the GUI....
1584 2013-05-03 15:08:41 <SomeoneWeird> ^^ about to say what jgarzik said
1585 2013-05-03 15:08:51 <jgarzik> dino__: There are plenty of tech solutions, and we'd love to help
1586 2013-05-03 15:08:58 <dino__> jgarzik - i imagine that satosh-dice creates a ton of "dust"
1587 2013-05-03 15:09:07 <jgarzik> dino__: yes, very much so
1588 2013-05-03 15:09:14 JTF195 has joined
1589 2013-05-03 15:09:35 <dino__> what happens to that dust?  (I'm a PhD candidate in Stats, and thought that an academic paper on the "dust" might actually be interesting)
1590 2013-05-03 15:09:54 <SomeoneWeird> nothing, afaik
1591 2013-05-03 15:10:13 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1592 2013-05-03 15:10:34 <dino__> Anybody ever take the time to *count* the dust.  How many small pieces of coins are laying around?  When the dust gets small enough, do miners ignore it, etc...
1593 2013-05-03 15:10:51 <gavinandresen> How valuable is their dust these days?  I believe they increased it from 1 satoshi a while ago, which was good....
1594 2013-05-03 15:11:18 <gavinandresen> dino__: sure.  There's a pull request to make dust non-standard
1595 2013-05-03 15:11:35 <dino__> gavinandresen: interesting.
1596 2013-05-03 15:11:47 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577
1597 2013-05-03 15:11:51 <dino__> But, back to my original questions.  jgarzik suggest that there are a few tech solutions.
1598 2013-05-03 15:12:14 <dino__> Perhaps modifying bitcoind to output transactions my *my* address directly to a database?  Save the RPC step?
1599 2013-05-03 15:12:23 <dino__> gavinandresen:  Thanks
1600 2013-05-03 15:12:49 <BCB> gavinandresen: are you/ have you made a statement
1601 2013-05-03 15:12:56 <jgarzik> dino__: gmaxwell had some graphs on dust
1602 2013-05-03 15:12:59 <michagogo> gavinandresen: If you lose, you get your bet multiplied by 0.005
1603 2013-05-03 15:13:25 <BCB> gavinandresen: the foundation has lost all credibility with this lawsuit
1604 2013-05-03 15:13:49 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Also, it's somewhat necessary for their goal of making a game that you can play without needing to go outside the bitcoin client
1605 2013-05-03 15:13:50 <gavinandresen> BCB: I posted to the Foundation forums my thoughts a little while ago
1606 2013-05-03 15:13:50 <dino__> gavinandresen:  Just read your post on dust policies.  Makes a lot of sense.  I'll be at the Bitcoin Conference in San Jose, perhaps we can convince people to adopt that as a standard.
1607 2013-05-03 15:13:59 <BCB> gavinandresen: thx.  link??
1608 2013-05-03 15:13:59 <jgarzik> dino__: Anyway, think about how your users will have funds with you.  A better model is to have account balances, and then bet off the internal balance.
1609 2013-05-03 15:14:01 <gavinandresen> BCB: off-topic for this channel
1610 2013-05-03 15:14:07 <dino__> BRB
1611 2013-05-03 15:14:15 <jgarzik> BCB: nod, that's #bitcoin material, please
1612 2013-05-03 15:14:16 <BCB> gavinandresen: I know but bitcoin tak is down (sorry guys)
1613 2013-05-03 15:14:32 <michagogo> BCB: It's not
1614 2013-05-03 15:14:57 <jaromil> BCB: https://109.201.133.65
1615 2013-05-03 15:15:13 twobits has joined
1616 2013-05-03 15:15:28 <BCB> jaromil: the cert is not valid. I'm not logging in gthere
1617 2013-05-03 15:15:38 <jgarzik> BCB: (1) that's not bitcoin foundation, (2) breathe, http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dmb4e/iaal_why_the_coinlab_v_mt_gox_lawsuit_is_hohum/
1618 2013-05-03 15:15:38 <jaromil> i agree OT here is boring now and especially today when everything seems to just be freaky
1619 2013-05-03 15:16:09 freefox has joined
1620 2013-05-03 15:16:46 <BCB> jgarzik: regardless two founding bitcoin foundation member suing each other is NOT ho hum
1621 2013-05-03 15:17:03 <BCB> jgarzik: we need good press NOT more distracting drama
1622 2013-05-03 15:17:16 <Ry4an> BCB if you want to see that cert turn green edit your hosts file to map that IP to bitcointalk's hostname.  It was never a DNSSEC site to begin with.
1623 2013-05-03 15:17:21 <jgarzik> BCB: Sure it is.  The founding members of the Linux Foundation sue each other all the time.
1624 2013-05-03 15:17:25 <jaromil> BCB if you use the same password elsewhere you aren't safe even if the cert is valid, that's a PBKAC
1625 2013-05-03 15:17:26 <jgarzik> BCB: c.f. Intel vs. AMD
1626 2013-05-03 15:17:29 <jgarzik> Oracle vs. everyone
1627 2013-05-03 15:17:29 rafadefine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1628 2013-05-03 15:17:30 <jgarzik> etc.
1629 2013-05-03 15:17:50 <k9quaint> Oracle sued me for a cup of coffee the other day
1630 2013-05-03 15:17:57 <k9quaint> I won though
1631 2013-05-03 15:18:00 <jgarzik> ;p
1632 2013-05-03 15:18:03 <BCB> jgarzik: so you are saying we are take a step ion the right direction
1633 2013-05-03 15:18:11 <BCB> jgarzik: NOT encouraging
1634 2013-05-03 15:18:13 philihp_ has quit (Quit: you are not a jedi, yet.)
1635 2013-05-03 15:18:50 arrr has joined
1636 2013-05-03 15:20:30 <BCB> gavinandresen: could you post the link to your blog
1637 2013-05-03 15:20:37 <BCB> pls
1638 2013-05-03 15:20:53 Grouver has joined
1639 2013-05-03 15:21:02 rafadefine has joined
1640 2013-05-03 15:21:47 twmz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1641 2013-05-03 15:22:05 <gavinandresen> BCB: I'll post the link in #bitcoin right now
1642 2013-05-03 15:22:17 <BCB> gavinandresen: ty
1643 2013-05-03 15:22:30 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1644 2013-05-03 15:22:30 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1645 2013-05-03 15:22:41 <lianj> again please :)
1646 2013-05-03 15:23:18 Grouver has quit (Client Quit)
1647 2013-05-03 15:25:39 <dino__> Back
1648 2013-05-03 15:26:20 <dino__> jgarzik - account balances might be a way to go, but no way of knowing if a person is going to come back or play more than once.  Guess I could track "bets" by the sender address, but have them all come to the same account?
1649 2013-05-03 15:28:45 <jgarzik> dino__: one common trick is making your user account your bitcoin address.  Zero signup, and easy to prove who owns it.
1650 2013-05-03 15:29:13 <dino__> jgarzik:  Not a bad idea.
1651 2013-05-03 15:29:43 <dino__> Looking at something similar to dice.  Guess I could just have all the bets flow into one address - would save me having to sweep a bunch of tiny amounts from other addresses.
1652 2013-05-03 15:29:43 saulimus has joined
1653 2013-05-03 15:30:20 <dino__> OFF TOPIC:  Who is going to the Bitcoin conference  in two weeks in San Jose?  I'll be there
1654 2013-05-03 15:31:00 Jasmin68k has joined
1655 2013-05-03 15:31:12 xorgate has quit (Quit: Take it easy)
1656 2013-05-03 15:31:48 OneFixt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1657 2013-05-03 15:32:09 OneFixt has joined
1658 2013-05-03 15:33:17 xorgate has joined
1659 2013-05-03 15:37:00 Jasmin68k has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1660 2013-05-03 15:38:29 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1661 2013-05-03 15:38:39 robocoin has joined
1662 2013-05-03 15:38:39 robocoin has quit (Changing host)
1663 2013-05-03 15:38:39 robocoin has joined
1664 2013-05-03 15:39:01 xorgate has joined
1665 2013-05-03 15:40:02 Jasmin68k has joined
1666 2013-05-03 15:40:44 Diapolis has joined
1667 2013-05-03 15:41:40 <BlueMatt> petertodd: block-headers-over-dns? win
1668 2013-05-03 15:42:25 <sipa> how about block-headers-over-blockchain-over-carrier-pigeon?
1669 2013-05-03 15:42:44 <BlueMatt> heh
1670 2013-05-03 15:43:02 * BlueMatt still wants to get a ham license just to do blocks-over-amateur-radio
1671 2013-05-03 15:43:07 dino__ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1672 2013-05-03 15:43:29 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1673 2013-05-03 15:43:47 <petertodd> BlueMatt, sipa: how about block-headers over dns over carrier pigeon?
1674 2013-05-03 15:44:30 arrr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1675 2013-05-03 15:44:52 <petertodd> BlueMatt: but seriously, I gotta put that code on github...
1676 2013-05-03 15:44:58 xorgate has joined
1677 2013-05-03 15:45:26 <MC1984_> whats the rationale for esoteric methods of blockheader distribution
1678 2013-05-03 15:45:29 richcollins has joined
1679 2013-05-03 15:45:53 <BlueMatt> its a fun concept, and its generally a cool idea to distribute blocks (or at least headers) over obscure things
1680 2013-05-03 15:46:01 lolcookie has quit (bull!~google@58-7-141-nwork.dyn.iinet.net.au|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1681 2013-05-03 15:46:20 <BlueMatt> MC1984_: a) there is some huge bug in p2p code that makes it all suddenly stop function for no reason b) china decides bitcoin is bad and blocks p2p
1682 2013-05-03 15:46:20 <MC1984_> "because we can"
1683 2013-05-03 15:46:24 lolcookie has joined
1684 2013-05-03 15:46:24 <gonffen> BlueMatt: you should do it
1685 2013-05-03 15:46:26 <MC1984_> thats acceptable
1686 2013-05-03 15:46:47 Chuky has quit (Quit: • IRcap • 8.71 •)
1687 2013-05-03 15:46:56 <gonffen> if you're going to do blockchain over radio, with the explicit intention of avoiding things like the great wall of china
1688 2013-05-03 15:47:17 <MC1984_> china is ather mountainous
1689 2013-05-03 15:47:28 <MC1984_> we need blockchain-over-semaphore
1690 2013-05-03 15:47:30 <gonffen> would that require multiple nodes so that the receiver can 'trust' the chain?
1691 2013-05-03 15:47:35 <gonffen> lol
1692 2013-05-03 15:48:13 <BlueMatt> gonffen: moderately, but if blocks are coming in +/- once every 10 minutes and reported difficulty seems reasonable, you can trust them at least a tiny bit
1693 2013-05-03 15:48:46 <petertodd> and who wouldn't want to know every time the blockchain dumps a header: https://twitter.com/blockheaders
1694 2013-05-03 15:48:49 <gonffen> I assume you'd implement this in a two way fashion?
1695 2013-05-03 15:48:53 <BlueMatt> that said, Im not sure blockchain-over-radio works too well to avoid gfw-style blocking
1696 2013-05-03 15:49:26 <petertodd> seriously though, blockheaders over DNS could actually be useful for clients that just need to know if a tx is valid, but won't actually generate tx's like timestamp verification and certain off-chain things
1697 2013-05-03 15:49:27 <BlueMatt> gonffen: Id assume youd want to, yes
1698 2013-05-03 15:49:51 <petertodd> heck, even clients that do generate tx's, given sufficiently advanced payment protocols
1699 2013-05-03 15:50:07 Thepok has joined
1700 2013-05-03 15:50:36 <BlueMatt> you could do tx-serialized.dns.name to announce txn onto the network :P
1701 2013-05-03 15:50:52 <BlueMatt> or just throw p2p inside ip-over-dns
1702 2013-05-03 15:51:29 <gonffen> BlueMatt: right they could just fox hunt folks :P
1703 2013-05-03 15:51:55 <petertodd> BlueMatt: DNS has a pretty small limit on max name size sadly, but you can do multiples...
1704 2013-05-03 15:52:10 <gonffen> it might potentially be useful in a unidirectional implementation like gps... but...
1705 2013-05-03 15:52:56 <BlueMatt> gonffen: well, Im more thinking that there arent nearly enough hams to make it worthwhile aside from country-border blocks where you can get data between nodes inside but not in/out (though that seem kinda a ridiculous notion...)
1706 2013-05-03 15:53:11 <BlueMatt> petertodd: well, fine UID-part1.dns.name...
1707 2013-05-03 15:53:42 <BlueMatt> (ie most people still cant get the data if you are broadcasting it over radio)
1708 2013-05-03 15:53:53 <gonffen> I would imagine you'd find more in the bitcoin community than in the general population
1709 2013-05-03 15:54:04 <gonffen> and HAM radio does have a full class A network allocated to it
1710 2013-05-03 15:54:11 <k9quaint> every transaction should be tweeted imo
1711 2013-05-03 15:54:22 ralphtheninja has joined
1712 2013-05-03 15:54:26 <gonffen> but I'd imagine if it was being blocked over the internet, they'd be breaking a few laws
1713 2013-05-03 15:54:28 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: until twitter bans you for flooding...
1714 2013-05-03 15:54:37 <BlueMatt> gonffen: yep
1715 2013-05-03 15:54:44 <k9quaint> BlueMatt: they wouldn't dare!
1716 2013-05-03 15:54:47 <gonffen> just make new twitter accounts and post with #blockchain
1717 2013-05-03 15:54:54 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: heh, yea....
1718 2013-05-03 15:55:05 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin-tx-announce
1719 2013-05-03 15:56:07 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1720 2013-05-03 15:57:02 metabyte_ has joined
1721 2013-05-03 15:57:47 czaanja has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1722 2013-05-03 15:58:00 n5 has quit ()
1723 2013-05-03 15:58:21 Plarkplark_ has joined
1724 2013-05-03 15:59:10 freefox has left ()
1725 2013-05-03 15:59:19 <k9quaint> BlueMatt: that irc channel is already taken
1726 2013-05-03 15:59:21 Sealy has quit (Quit: Sealy)
1727 2013-05-03 15:59:49 <BlueMatt> oh, heh, I meant twitter tags and anyone can announce their own txn on twitter and a bot can pick them up
1728 2013-05-03 15:59:56 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1729 2013-05-03 16:00:02 <k9quaint> ah, true that
1730 2013-05-03 16:00:14 <k9quaint> the IRC channel was just a trap
1731 2013-05-03 16:00:24 <k9quaint> I was hoping you would join so I could kick you ;)
1732 2013-05-03 16:00:53 <BlueMatt> heh...ok, well IRC would be kinda fun too, announce your txn and itl be put on the p2p network
1733 2013-05-03 16:01:43 <petertodd> gonffen: I really wanna see someone else run my bot reusing the #btcblk hashtag
1734 2013-05-03 16:01:53 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1735 2013-05-03 16:02:16 <SomeoneWeird> BlueMatt, that'd be a good idea
1736 2013-05-03 16:02:27 <SomeoneWeird> just grab a bot and use blockchain.info to submit it
1737 2013-05-03 16:02:31 <SomeoneWeird> forward it
1738 2013-05-03 16:02:34 n5 has joined
1739 2013-05-03 16:02:51 owowo has joined
1740 2013-05-03 16:02:56 <BlueMatt> bitcoin-esoteric-communicatord
1741 2013-05-03 16:03:18 <BlueMatt> grabs/publishes blocks/txn from 100 different esoteric communication methods :)
1742 2013-05-03 16:03:26 <gonffen> petertodd: haha I'd do it just because, but I don't have a machine which I can leave running 24/7
1743 2013-05-03 16:03:31 <k9quaint> or you could graffiti the blocks onto rail cars
1744 2013-05-03 16:04:19 <SomeoneWeird> lol there so should be a mailing list you can subscribe to for block
1745 2013-05-03 16:04:20 <SomeoneWeird> s
1746 2013-05-03 16:04:25 <SomeoneWeird> that'd be neat
1747 2013-05-03 16:04:56 <k9quaint> or a block catalog mailed out with pictures of women in lingerie standing next to hex code
1748 2013-05-03 16:05:11 <SomeoneWeird> yes
1749 2013-05-03 16:05:15 <petertodd> gonffen: you gotta get a amazon ec2 vps man, smallest one is like $10/month
1750 2013-05-03 16:05:31 <petertodd> SomeoneWeird: blockchainbymail.com
1751 2013-05-03 16:05:43 <petertodd> SomeoneWeird: I'm their Canadian distributor lol
1752 2013-05-03 16:05:49 <SomeoneWeird> oh i mean like
1753 2013-05-03 16:05:57 <SomeoneWeird> an email list
1754 2013-05-03 16:06:01 <SomeoneWeird> not physical mail
1755 2013-05-03 16:06:08 <petertodd> SomeoneWeird: well that's no fun...
1756 2013-05-03 16:06:08 <lianj> petertodd: two dvds already? :P
1757 2013-05-03 16:06:35 Belxjander has joined
1758 2013-05-03 16:06:43 <SomeoneWeird> " Offer is only available for U.S. residents."
1759 2013-05-03 16:06:43 <petertodd> lianj: lol, sounds like it, I don't think they've actually gotten any orders at all yet, basically doing it for first-mover advantage (I bough the domain for an april fools joke...)
1760 2013-05-03 16:06:44 <SomeoneWeird> fuck you
1761 2013-05-03 16:06:51 <petertodd> SomeoneWeird: where are you?
1762 2013-05-03 16:06:56 <SomeoneWeird> australia
1763 2013-05-03 16:07:05 bitit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1764 2013-05-03 16:07:31 <Belxjander> What "offer" ?
1765 2013-05-03 16:07:32 <petertodd> SomeoneWeird: I can get you a DVD set in a few weeks, I have family there
1766 2013-05-03 16:07:39 <Belxjander> and what april fools domain purchase ?
1767 2013-05-03 16:07:45 <petertodd> Belxjander: blockchainbymail.com
1768 2013-05-03 16:08:07 <petertodd> Belxjander: I bought it for a joke, and then realized someone was doing it for real, so I gave them the domain
1769 2013-05-03 16:08:09 <Belxjander> ahh
1770 2013-05-03 16:11:06 <lianj> mainnet checkpoints tattoo on your belly
1771 2013-05-03 16:13:05 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Sayonara)
1772 2013-05-03 16:14:13 Jasmin68k has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1773 2013-05-03 16:14:22 Hans-Martin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1774 2013-05-03 16:15:19 Faradayy has quit ()
1775 2013-05-03 16:16:00 denisx has joined
1776 2013-05-03 16:16:15 <petertodd> testnet temporary tattoos
1777 2013-05-03 16:17:22 <he1kki> SatoshiDice API pros? I'm trying to figure out how SatoshiDice API's longpoll determines value of "status", as it seems to get stuck into null. Example longpoll @ http://src.satoshidice.com/longpoll.php?tx=3530d1d70538f8f1b83850726c88518abad0b3f6b59b10e37805b1a9cd8c3020 , corresponding blockchain transaction @ https://blockchain.info/tx/3530d1d70538f8f1b83850726c88518abad0b3f6b59b10e37805b1a9cd8c3020
1778 2013-05-03 16:17:52 seeingidog__ has joined
1779 2013-05-03 16:18:57 n5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1780 2013-05-03 16:19:07 n5 has joined
1781 2013-05-03 16:19:55 duckybsd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1782 2013-05-03 16:20:11 LainZ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1783 2013-05-03 16:20:27 LainZ has joined
1784 2013-05-03 16:22:16 moroz has quit ()
1785 2013-05-03 16:24:14 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1786 2013-05-03 16:25:40 xorgate has joined
1787 2013-05-03 16:26:07 agricocb has joined
1788 2013-05-03 16:27:14 bibbybob has joined
1789 2013-05-03 16:29:56 michagogo has quit (Quit: שבת שלום)
1790 2013-05-03 16:29:59 tlrobinson has joined
1791 2013-05-03 16:30:55 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1792 2013-05-03 16:32:10 <tlrobinson> BitcoinQT just crashed on me… should i be concerned?
1793 2013-05-03 16:32:26 <tlrobinson> "Unable to open file /Users/tlrobinson/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/blocks/blk00035.dat ERROR: CBlock::ReadFromDisk() : OpenBlockFile failed"
1794 2013-05-03 16:33:03 HM has joined
1795 2013-05-03 16:33:26 <etotheipi_> sipa, another inkscape drawing for you:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1139081/BitcoinImg/merkletree.png
1796 2013-05-03 16:33:44 <sipa> tlrobinson: OSX? known issue, likely
1797 2013-05-03 16:33:44 <vrs> tlrobinson: ran out of space?
1798 2013-05-03 16:33:52 <sipa> out of file descriptors, likely
1799 2013-05-03 16:34:13 <sipa> tlrobinson: is it solved by restarting?
1800 2013-05-03 16:34:21 <etotheipi_> sipa: can you also communicate an empty tree?  if I have zero leaves that are "on", then my code outputs just the merkle root
1801 2013-05-03 16:34:23 <tlrobinson> sipa: OS X, yes
1802 2013-05-03 16:34:34 <tlrobinson> vrs: no, plenty of space
1803 2013-05-03 16:34:47 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1804 2013-05-03 16:35:21 <etotheipi_> sipa: err... I get: numTx=1, vBits={0}, vHash={merkleRoot}
1805 2013-05-03 16:37:22 xorgate has joined
1806 2013-05-03 16:37:36 <tlrobinson> restarting seems to have fixed it. i've got the crash report if that's useful to anyone
1807 2013-05-03 16:37:50 melvster1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1808 2013-05-03 16:39:10 <Diablo-D3> bleh I hate bitcoin-qt on osx
1809 2013-05-03 16:39:16 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
1810 2013-05-03 16:39:16 <Diablo-D3> if I close the window, I cant open it again
1811 2013-05-03 16:40:20 santoscork has joined
1812 2013-05-03 16:41:42 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1813 2013-05-03 16:42:11 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1814 2013-05-03 16:42:28 xorgate has joined
1815 2013-05-03 16:44:22 Mr_G has joined
1816 2013-05-03 16:46:07 n5 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1817 2013-05-03 16:46:53 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1818 2013-05-03 16:47:55 johnsoft1 has joined
1819 2013-05-03 16:48:23 jaequery has joined
1820 2013-05-03 16:48:30 chmod755 has joined
1821 2013-05-03 16:48:46 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1822 2013-05-03 16:50:00 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1823 2013-05-03 16:50:24 xorgate has joined
1824 2013-05-03 16:51:16 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1825 2013-05-03 16:51:38 Diapolo has joined
1826 2013-05-03 16:54:51 Belxjander has joined
1827 2013-05-03 16:55:22 rdymac has joined
1828 2013-05-03 16:56:14 evan_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1829 2013-05-03 16:56:50 johnsoft1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1830 2013-05-03 17:01:25 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1831 2013-05-03 17:03:40 gritball has joined
1832 2013-05-03 17:05:38 lolcookie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1833 2013-05-03 17:05:58 lolcookie has joined
1834 2013-05-03 17:10:54 nsillik has joined
1835 2013-05-03 17:14:34 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1836 2013-05-03 17:17:23 felixweis has joined
1837 2013-05-03 17:17:58 <felixweis> [ANN] https://github.com/FelixWeis/hdwallet (implementation of BIP 0032 in python)
1838 2013-05-03 17:18:15 <felixweis> please have a look and comment
1839 2013-05-03 17:18:37 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1840 2013-05-03 17:18:38 duSn has joined
1841 2013-05-03 17:19:59 Svag has joined
1842 2013-05-03 17:20:36 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
1843 2013-05-03 17:20:43 Diapolis has joined
1844 2013-05-03 17:22:02 tlrobinson has left ()
1845 2013-05-03 17:22:07 fanquake has left ()
1846 2013-05-03 17:22:29 Svag has left ("Leaving")
1847 2013-05-03 17:23:11 nsillik_ has joined
1848 2013-05-03 17:23:40 n5 has joined
1849 2013-05-03 17:27:05 nsillik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1850 2013-05-03 17:27:05 nsillik_ is now known as nsillik
1851 2013-05-03 17:27:30 Mr_G has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1852 2013-05-03 17:29:01 bwen has left ()
1853 2013-05-03 17:29:56 twmz has joined
1854 2013-05-03 17:30:23 Elmf has joined
1855 2013-05-03 17:31:06 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1856 2013-05-03 17:31:10 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1857 2013-05-03 17:32:42 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1858 2013-05-03 17:33:25 tonikt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1859 2013-05-03 17:33:46 <sipa> felixweis: looks nice, i don't have the time now to check in detail
1860 2013-05-03 17:34:03 <sipa> felixweis: i have code myself that implements the derivation, so we can compare output
1861 2013-05-03 17:34:10 <sipa> but i'd first want BIP32 to be final
1862 2013-05-03 17:34:23 <sipa> i just posted this in the thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=19137.msg2016691#msg2016691
1863 2013-05-03 17:34:43 gagecolton has joined
1864 2013-05-03 17:35:20 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1865 2013-05-03 17:35:23 johnsoft has joined
1866 2013-05-03 17:37:22 mrkent has joined
1867 2013-05-03 17:38:22 Jasmin68k has joined
1868 2013-05-03 17:41:11 ido370 has joined
1869 2013-05-03 17:41:19 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1870 2013-05-03 17:41:21 agricocb has joined
1871 2013-05-03 17:43:22 kadoban has joined
1872 2013-05-03 17:43:33 richcollins has joined
1873 2013-05-03 17:44:50 xorgate has joined
1874 2013-05-03 17:46:22 jaequery has joined
1875 2013-05-03 17:46:47 richcollins has quit (Client Quit)
1876 2013-05-03 17:48:33 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1877 2013-05-03 17:49:03 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1878 2013-05-03 17:49:36 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1879 2013-05-03 17:52:26 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1880 2013-05-03 17:54:33 ido370 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1881 2013-05-03 17:58:51 rdymac has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1882 2013-05-03 17:59:38 paraipan has joined
1883 2013-05-03 18:01:08 daughterly has quit (Quit: leaving)
1884 2013-05-03 18:04:45 Plarkplark_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1885 2013-05-03 18:05:10 sharperguy has joined
1886 2013-05-03 18:05:49 dust-otc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1887 2013-05-03 18:07:25 ikeewee has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1888 2013-05-03 18:08:41 ProfMac_ has joined
1889 2013-05-03 18:09:05 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1890 2013-05-03 18:10:17 guruvan- has joined
1891 2013-05-03 18:12:08 lolcookie has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1892 2013-05-03 18:13:11 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1893 2013-05-03 18:13:12 guruvan- is now known as guruvan
1894 2013-05-03 18:13:16 Diapolo has left ()
1895 2013-05-03 18:14:32 FlyingLeap_ has joined
1896 2013-05-03 18:14:47 FlyingLeap has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1897 2013-05-03 18:18:11 xorgate has joined
1898 2013-05-03 18:18:33 panzer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1899 2013-05-03 18:19:11 panzer has joined
1900 2013-05-03 18:20:27 da2ce7 has joined
1901 2013-05-03 18:22:29 skinnkavaj has quit (Changing host)
1902 2013-05-03 18:22:29 skinnkavaj has joined
1903 2013-05-03 18:22:42 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1904 2013-05-03 18:22:56 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1905 2013-05-03 18:26:28 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1906 2013-05-03 18:27:29 daybyter has joined
1907 2013-05-03 18:28:09 D34TH has joined
1908 2013-05-03 18:28:19 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1909 2013-05-03 18:31:05 TD has joined
1910 2013-05-03 18:32:34 brson has joined
1911 2013-05-03 18:34:27 rdymac has joined
1912 2013-05-03 18:36:41 Btceldur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1913 2013-05-03 18:40:02 agricocb has joined
1914 2013-05-03 18:40:10 Diapolis has joined
1915 2013-05-03 18:42:23 jonass has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1916 2013-05-03 18:44:59 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1917 2013-05-03 18:47:30 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1918 2013-05-03 18:51:08 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1919 2013-05-03 18:51:28 PhantomSpark has quit (Quit: Not all thats glitter is gold not all who wander are lost. - ospwrd.com)
1920 2013-05-03 18:52:26 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1921 2013-05-03 18:52:34 <vazakl-> bitcoin is awesome!
1922 2013-05-03 18:52:58 Ahimoth has joined
1923 2013-05-03 18:57:39 ToryJujube has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1924 2013-05-03 18:59:29 n5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1925 2013-05-03 18:59:46 tcatm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1926 2013-05-03 18:59:47 n5 has joined
1927 2013-05-03 19:00:02 tcatm has joined
1928 2013-05-03 19:00:02 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
1929 2013-05-03 19:00:02 tcatm has joined
1930 2013-05-03 19:00:12 AndChat64721 has joined
1931 2013-05-03 19:01:49 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1932 2013-05-03 19:04:20 Tritonio has joined
1933 2013-05-03 19:04:20 <TD> saivann: hey
1934 2013-05-03 19:04:30 <saivann> TD : pong
1935 2013-05-03 19:04:41 <TD> saivann: seems the website build broke. github is serving 403 Denied when accessing api.github.com from the jekyll plugins
1936 2013-05-03 19:04:53 <TD> i guess they had issues with abuse or something? the urls seem to work in my browser
1937 2013-05-03 19:05:13 <saivann> TD : You get that problem on your computer?
1938 2013-05-03 19:05:36 <TD> well, i get it unless i use chrome on those URLs, then the data is served, which implies some kind of useragent sniffing
1939 2013-05-03 19:05:51 <TD> do you have a workaround?
1940 2013-05-03 19:06:04 <saivann> TD : Do you have the updated branch with this fix included? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/commit/43d8afe751b5e8df01c3be2164172414d0010577
1941 2013-05-03 19:06:13 <TD> oh, right. no. i'll pull
1942 2013-05-03 19:06:21 <saivann> TD : Then it should be fixed :-)
1943 2013-05-03 19:06:25 jonass has joined
1944 2013-05-03 19:11:04 <saivann> TD : It's actually due to github now forcing a user-agent on their API. The website stopped to build completely a few days ago. Be sure to pull all commits, because there is two places where I had to add the user-agent header
1945 2013-05-03 19:11:11 <TD> yeah
1946 2013-05-03 19:11:18 <TD> it makes sense as a policy
1947 2013-05-03 19:11:27 <TD> i've implemented similar policies on various google sites before
1948 2013-05-03 19:11:27 <saivann> Great
1949 2013-05-03 19:11:30 <TD> i just forgot to update
1950 2013-05-03 19:12:31 <duSn> what purpose would a useragent serve on github?
1951 2013-05-03 19:14:34 rbecker is now known as RBecker
1952 2013-05-03 19:14:52 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1953 2013-05-03 19:15:28 debiantoruser has joined
1954 2013-05-03 19:16:07 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1955 2013-05-03 19:19:01 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1956 2013-05-03 19:19:02 <SirDefaced> im using qmake USE_UPNP=
1957 2013-05-03 19:19:05 <SirDefaced> and im getting this
1958 2013-05-03 19:19:06 <SirDefaced> Project MESSAGE: Building with UPNP supportRemoved plural forms as the target language has less forms.
1959 2013-05-03 19:19:18 <SirDefaced> ive got the miniupnp libraries installed.
1960 2013-05-03 19:19:23 <chmod755> SirDefaced, USE_UPNP=1
1961 2013-05-03 19:19:24 <chmod755> ?
1962 2013-05-03 19:19:28 <SirDefaced> let me try
1963 2013-05-03 19:19:46 <SirDefaced> same error
1964 2013-05-03 19:19:57 BTCOxygen has joined
1965 2013-05-03 19:20:30 <TD> duSn: makes it easier to handle abuse
1966 2013-05-03 19:20:44 <TD> saivann: this is gonna sound dumb coming from me, but how do you get the google docs export urls?
1967 2013-05-03 19:20:59 <saivann> TD :D
1968 2013-05-03 19:21:27 <saivann> TD : Uh, seems like I lost the info, just a minute..
1969 2013-05-03 19:21:35 Plarkplark_ has joined
1970 2013-05-03 19:21:48 <TD> i can get the direct image serving link no problem
1971 2013-05-03 19:21:53 <TD> lhX.googleusercontent.com
1972 2013-05-03 19:22:45 Miki____ has joined
1973 2013-05-03 19:24:34 <Miki____> Hello guys, may I ask all of you guys to join in this game (Bitcoins are supported) and I swear it's not a scam http://www.minethings.com/miners/index/+48061  -  this is my ref would help on you and me. It's a MMO game.
1974 2013-05-03 19:24:48 <duSn> TD: right - but it is very easy to change - abuse is a hard problem to nail down too
1975 2013-05-03 19:25:06 <TD> heh. i worked in anti-abuse for three years.
1976 2013-05-03 19:25:14 <TD> forcing a user-agent has far more value than you'd imagine
1977 2013-05-03 19:25:31 Miki____ has quit (Client Quit)
1978 2013-05-03 19:25:38 <TD> i don't really want to discuss all the tricks of the trade in an open channel, but suffice it to say that even though people can lie, at least if a user-agent is required they can be caught in the act of lying
1979 2013-05-03 19:26:40 jonass has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1980 2013-05-03 19:26:44 <saivann> TD : You simply need the Google Drive ID of the file (which you can see in the share link of the file), and then you append it at the end of this : https://docs.google.com/uc?export=view&id=
1981 2013-05-03 19:27:13 <TD> simple as that indeed
1982 2013-05-03 19:27:20 piotr_ has joined
1983 2013-05-03 19:28:50 CodeShark has joined
1984 2013-05-03 19:29:23 piotr_ has left ("Leaving...")
1985 2013-05-03 19:31:28 rdymac has joined
1986 2013-05-03 19:31:38 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1987 2013-05-03 19:32:11 Diapolis has joined
1988 2013-05-03 19:36:34 Btceldur has joined
1989 2013-05-03 19:40:25 Diapolis has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1990 2013-05-03 19:41:12 richcollins has joined
1991 2013-05-03 19:50:02 rafadefine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1992 2013-05-03 19:50:07 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1993 2013-05-03 19:54:00 rafadefine has joined
1994 2013-05-03 19:55:18 Jackneill has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1995 2013-05-03 19:57:14 agricocb has joined
1996 2013-05-03 19:57:25 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1997 2013-05-03 19:59:28 qeb has joined
1998 2013-05-03 20:01:01 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1999 2013-05-03 20:01:46 Jasmin68k has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2000 2013-05-03 20:02:21 JTF195 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2001 2013-05-03 20:03:32 Diapolis has joined
2002 2013-05-03 20:04:16 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2003 2013-05-03 20:06:40 zer0def has quit (Quit: Quit:)
2004 2013-05-03 20:07:08 HM has joined
2005 2013-05-03 20:09:30 iwilcox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2006 2013-05-03 20:10:01 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
2007 2013-05-03 20:12:34 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2008 2013-05-03 20:13:37 HM has joined
2009 2013-05-03 20:15:01 taha has joined
2010 2013-05-03 20:15:08 resinate has joined
2011 2013-05-03 20:17:10 <etotheipi_> <etotheipi_> sipa, another inkscape drawing for you:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1139081/BitcoinImg/merkletree.png
2012 2013-05-03 20:17:37 <etotheipi_> sipa: see how much fun inkscape is?
2013 2013-05-03 20:18:04 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2014 2013-05-03 20:18:08 HM2 has joined
2015 2013-05-03 20:19:23 warren has left ("Leaving")
2016 2013-05-03 20:19:23 HM2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017 2013-05-03 20:19:32 HM2 has joined
2018 2013-05-03 20:20:39 belaya has joined
2019 2013-05-03 20:22:07 Btceldur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020 2013-05-03 20:23:23 HM2 has quit (Client Quit)
2021 2013-05-03 20:23:41 HM2 has joined
2022 2013-05-03 20:25:43 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2023 2013-05-03 20:29:34 mappum has joined
2024 2013-05-03 20:31:09 jim00001 has quit (Quit: jim00001)
2025 2013-05-03 20:32:22 darwin_ has joined
2026 2013-05-03 20:36:14 HM has joined
2027 2013-05-03 20:38:45 zer0def has joined
2028 2013-05-03 20:39:31 HM2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2029 2013-05-03 20:39:41 denisx has joined
2030 2013-05-03 20:42:36 felixweis has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2031 2013-05-03 20:42:52 etotheipi_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2032 2013-05-03 20:42:59 darwin_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2033 2013-05-03 20:43:09 testnode9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2034 2013-05-03 20:43:13 etotheipi_ has joined
2035 2013-05-03 20:44:30 mathildah has joined
2036 2013-05-03 20:44:52 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2037 2013-05-03 20:52:06 <mathildah> can anyone spot what is wrong here? http://pastebin.com/DZjvVGfq
2038 2013-05-03 20:52:41 nsillik has joined
2039 2013-05-03 20:52:54 a_meteorite has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2040 2013-05-03 20:53:18 <mathildah> something related to endianness. making the same mistake as this guy: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/06/29 (search for c6be35479fe9e00a7eae97d22c20ea287a21b513377b3997c1530de5998fb8e4 in page)
2041 2013-05-03 20:54:04 a_meteorite has joined
2042 2013-05-03 20:54:28 a_meteorite is now known as Guest50765
2043 2013-05-03 20:57:13 Guest50765 is now known as a_meteorite
2044 2013-05-03 20:57:18 a_meteorite has quit (Changing host)
2045 2013-05-03 20:57:18 a_meteorite has joined
2046 2013-05-03 21:00:26 <denisx> [7]: biste am start?
2047 2013-05-03 21:04:17 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2048 2013-05-03 21:04:37 toffoo has joined
2049 2013-05-03 21:04:38 <[7]> denisx: so halbwegs
2050 2013-05-03 21:05:35 <jgarzik> It's public: leaving Red Hat for bitcoin company $tobementionedlater
2051 2013-05-03 21:06:31 iddo has joined
2052 2013-05-03 21:09:19 <Luke-Jr> hardly public if the destination is still secret :P
2053 2013-05-03 21:09:42 qeb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2054 2013-05-03 21:10:53 <jgarzik> Well, the kernel stuff is public at least: http://marc.info/?l=linux-ide&m=136761130125854&w=2
2055 2013-05-03 21:11:02 <jgarzik> Longstanding kernel open source maintainership is changing
2056 2013-05-03 21:12:47 felixweis has joined
2057 2013-05-03 21:15:16 rushed has joined
2058 2013-05-03 21:16:33 spenvo has joined
2059 2013-05-03 21:16:50 rushed has quit (Client Quit)
2060 2013-05-03 21:19:59 <sipa> gavinandresen, jgarzik, gmaxwell, wumpus: ACKs on #2558 #2566 #2599 #2603 ?
2061 2013-05-03 21:20:43 felixweis has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2062 2013-05-03 21:20:54 <wumpus> eh let's see
2063 2013-05-03 21:21:32 <sipa> i'm testing #2606 now
2064 2013-05-03 21:21:57 <duSn> you must see lots in the bitcoin to fix - leaving the perfect kernel and all ;)
2065 2013-05-03 21:22:43 <wumpus> 2558,2566: ACKed already, the other two I'll take a look at
2066 2013-05-03 21:26:36 Btceldur has joined
2067 2013-05-03 21:27:44 <duSn> seriously if someone of jgarzik programming quality and character is going to work on bitcoin instead of the linux kernel - that should be a defining moment in bitcoin growth
2068 2013-05-03 21:28:00 <duSn> and acceptance
2069 2013-05-03 21:28:20 <wumpus> jgarzik was already working on bitcoin for a while duSn :)
2070 2013-05-03 21:28:51 <duSn> i'll bet few know about it
2071 2013-05-03 21:29:31 <sipa> his name has been on bitcoin.org for... 3 years?
2072 2013-05-03 21:30:32 jim00001 has joined
2073 2013-05-03 21:31:47 JDuke128 has joined
2074 2013-05-03 21:32:01 <duSn> i know other programmers are important - but i never heard his name associated with it before now
2075 2013-05-03 21:32:18 belaya has quit (Quit: leaving)
2076 2013-05-03 21:33:19 <duSn> i'd put out a nice news article on it to cnn etc this is very good
2077 2013-05-03 21:34:02 <duSn> and put autotools into qt-bitcoin :)
2078 2013-05-03 21:35:36 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
2079 2013-05-03 21:37:37 <gavinandresen> sipa: compiling / sanity testing #2558 now...
2080 2013-05-03 21:39:21 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2081 2013-05-03 21:40:15 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2082 2013-05-03 21:40:56 owowo has joined
2083 2013-05-03 21:41:11 <wumpus> i'm going to test 2599
2084 2013-05-03 21:43:33 <sipa> my VPS is running head-of-yesterday + #2410 #2553 #2558 #2566 #2598 #2599 #2600 #2602 #2603 #2606 $2607 #2608 #2601 + libsecp256k1
2085 2013-05-03 21:43:40 <sipa> if that's any confort :)
2086 2013-05-03 21:44:42 Grouver has joined
2087 2013-05-03 21:44:45 <sipa> (doesn't mean anything for the error/wallet-handling related pulls, but it's meaningful for network-relating stuff)
2088 2013-05-03 21:45:12 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2089 2013-05-03 21:47:17 sixyearsofdreams has joined
2090 2013-05-03 21:48:51 sixyearsofdreams has left ()
2091 2013-05-03 21:49:10 GWings has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2092 2013-05-03 21:49:24 <gmaxwell> I've been running head+2599 in valgrind with the recv buffer turned down. No issues.
2093 2013-05-03 21:49:32 <gavinandresen> Don't wait for ACKs from me on networking-related stuff, I like to pretend I don't know nuthin about networking
2094 2013-05-03 21:49:46 <gmaxwell> And it looked good to me.
2095 2013-05-03 21:50:25 <sipa> gavinandresen: i know :), but I'd like jgarzik's ok on that one
2096 2013-05-03 21:51:25 <gavinandresen> Got a hang at "Loading wallet…" testing 2566.  Might be the problem I found and fixed in #2607
2097 2013-05-03 21:52:36 <sipa> probably best to test those together
2098 2013-05-03 21:53:05 <gavinandresen> yup, doing now….
2099 2013-05-03 21:53:36 <sipa> worst case side-effect of #2607 (though i don't understand why the code was there in the first place), would be not upgrading the version marker...
2100 2013-05-03 21:54:00 <gavinandresen> yes, I was tempted to rip out that code, how many people are running ancient wallets by now?
2101 2013-05-03 21:54:34 <wumpus> this wouldn't break support for ancient wallets would it?
2102 2013-05-03 21:54:44 <sipa> yes, but it just doesn't make sense in LoadCryptedKey
2103 2013-05-03 21:54:55 <sipa> maybe i intended that code to be in AddCryptedKey...
2104 2013-05-03 21:55:13 <gavinandresen> 2607 and 2566 together work
2105 2013-05-03 21:55:15 Jasmin68k has joined
2106 2013-05-03 21:55:53 <gavinandresen> pulled
2107 2013-05-03 21:57:33 wiretapped has joined
2108 2013-05-03 21:58:27 <wiretapped> is the hashrate people talk about the number of SHA-256 hashes or the number of mining iterations? (a mining iteration requires two SHA-256 rounds according to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification )
2109 2013-05-03 21:58:39 <sipa> wiretapped: mining iterations
2110 2013-05-03 21:58:58 johnsoft is now known as johnsoft_
2111 2013-05-03 21:59:06 <sipa> (though in most implementations, it's not actually as much work as two full SHA-256 computations)
2112 2013-05-03 22:00:11 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
2113 2013-05-03 22:00:18 <wiretapped> thanks. next question: is txn_count actually 0 in headers as it says here? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Block_Headers
2114 2013-05-03 22:00:34 thestringpuller has joined
2115 2013-05-03 22:00:35 <sipa> yes
2116 2013-05-03 22:00:40 <wiretapped> that makes no sense to me, as it seems like it would make it impossible to validate
2117 2013-05-03 22:00:45 <sipa> ?
2118 2013-05-03 22:00:55 <wiretapped> isn't the hash over a nonzero value in the actual block?
2119 2013-05-03 22:01:01 CrypticSquared has joined
2120 2013-05-03 22:01:17 <sipa> the block header contains the merkle tree of the _actual_ transactions of that block
2121 2013-05-03 22:01:27 <thestringpuller> does anyone here know how to send json locally to bitcoind?
2122 2013-05-03 22:01:29 johnsoft_ is now known as johnsoft
2123 2013-05-03 22:01:36 <thestringpuller> sorry for interrupting :(
2124 2013-05-03 22:01:39 <sipa> but if you give the getheaders command, you get just the headers back without the transactions
2125 2013-05-03 22:01:41 johnsoft is now known as johnsoft_
2126 2013-05-03 22:01:53 <CodeShark> thestringpuller: try curl
2127 2013-05-03 22:01:55 <sipa> doesn't mean the merkle root changes
2128 2013-05-03 22:02:16 <thestringpuller> CodeShark: is it http POST?
2129 2013-05-03 22:02:22 <CodeShark> thestringpuller: yes
2130 2013-05-03 22:02:24 <wiretapped> sipa: but the proof of work is in the hash of the block headers, including a nonzero txn_count right?
2131 2013-05-03 22:02:37 johnsoft_ is now known as johnsoft
2132 2013-05-03 22:02:38 rushed has joined
2133 2013-05-03 22:03:07 <sipa> wiretapped: no, just the header
2134 2013-05-03 22:03:08 <wiretapped> say I last saw block n and now i want to convince myself that block n+100 is valid by downloading the headers of all the blocks in between
2135 2013-05-03 22:03:16 <sipa> tthe txn_count is not part of the header
2136 2013-05-03 22:03:23 <thestringpuller> hmm that might be too much overhead...may be better to just use a bash script...
2137 2013-05-03 22:03:36 <CodeShark> thestringpuller: you can also use the CLI
2138 2013-05-03 22:03:37 <wiretapped> ah nevermind i see now, i misread. thanks!
2139 2013-05-03 22:03:38 <sipa> it's just there to signify that no transactions follow
2140 2013-05-03 22:03:39 shesek has joined
2141 2013-05-03 22:03:58 <thestringpuller> yea I'm using CLI now manually but I'm trying to attach something to send API calls
2142 2013-05-03 22:04:02 <sipa> (which i think is stupid, if it's there, it should be used to convey how many actual transactions are there...)
2143 2013-05-03 22:04:29 <CodeShark> thestringpuller: but for security reasons, I'd recommend avoiding CLI calls wherever possible...unless you're hacking together a simple admin tool for yourself
2144 2013-05-03 22:04:32 <wiretapped> yeah, kinda weird that it is there
2145 2013-05-03 22:04:41 <CodeShark> or unless you're using bitcoind as a client
2146 2013-05-03 22:04:51 <sipa> wiretapped: historical reason... there used to be only one datastructure for both headers and blocks
2147 2013-05-03 22:04:59 <thestringpuller> CodeShark: I have a bot that accepts orders via GPG signed messages.
2148 2013-05-03 22:05:01 <sipa> so the same serializer was used
2149 2013-05-03 22:05:08 <thestringpuller> Then that bot does things locally
2150 2013-05-03 22:05:14 xorgate has joined
2151 2013-05-03 22:05:20 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2152 2013-05-03 22:05:30 <wiretapped> makes sense.
2153 2013-05-03 22:05:31 <thestringpuller> Nothing accepts connections from that outside
2154 2013-05-03 22:05:36 <thestringpuller> everything is like "client"
2155 2013-05-03 22:05:56 <thestringpuller> has to be signed with a specific gpg key
2156 2013-05-03 22:09:52 <CodeShark> for RPC, I'd definitely opt for HTTP over shell exes
2157 2013-05-03 22:10:35 <CodeShark> I use shell exes for one-liner bash scripts
2158 2013-05-03 22:11:10 <CodeShark> but only for local tools
2159 2013-05-03 22:11:57 <CodeShark> anyhow, I don't really know what you're trying to do, thestringpuller :)
2160 2013-05-03 22:13:26 SkillsToShow_ has joined
2161 2013-05-03 22:13:49 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2162 2013-05-03 22:16:17 JDuke128 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2163 2013-05-03 22:16:33 SkillsToShow has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2164 2013-05-03 22:18:20 felixweis has joined
2165 2013-05-03 22:22:52 felixweis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2166 2013-05-03 22:23:02 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2167 2013-05-03 22:26:32 molecular has joined
2168 2013-05-03 22:28:23 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2169 2013-05-03 22:28:53 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2170 2013-05-03 22:30:27 <jgarzik> sipa: as long as receive buffer < flood size... why not select read?  why not select read, if we already have a complete message?
2171 2013-05-03 22:31:24 <sipa> jgarzik: we do
2172 2013-05-03 22:31:39 <sipa> or at least, that's what the pullreq is supposed to do
2173 2013-05-03 22:31:58 <sipa> select for read if either 1) there is no complete message  or 2) the receive buffer < flood sie
2174 2013-05-03 22:32:50 CodeShark has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2175 2013-05-03 22:32:56 <thestringpuller> CodeShark will bitcoind automatically refuse connections on rpc if I run it in local mode only?
2176 2013-05-03 22:33:00 <jgarzik> +                    if (lockRecv && (
2177 2013-05-03 22:33:01 <jgarzik> +                        pnode->vRecvMsg.empty() || !pnode->vRecvMsg.front().complete() ||
2178 2013-05-03 22:33:01 <jgarzik> +                        pnode->GetTotalRecvSize() <= ReceiveFloodSize()))
2179 2013-05-03 22:33:01 <jgarzik> +                        FD_SET(pnode->hSocket, &fdsetRecv);
2180 2013-05-03 22:33:21 <jgarzik> sipa: It seems like, if there is a complete message, it is not selected for read.
2181 2013-05-03 22:33:23 <jgarzik> sipa: correct?
2182 2013-05-03 22:33:31 <sipa> eh
2183 2013-05-03 22:33:33 <thestringpuller> basically I want a daemon that reads in GPG signed messages which are commands and then sends a call to bitcoind
2184 2013-05-03 22:33:38 <sipa> jgarzik: no
2185 2013-05-03 22:33:52 <thestringpuller> :( he left
2186 2013-05-03 22:33:59 <sipa> jgarzik: the condition continues on the next line
2187 2013-05-03 22:34:10 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
2188 2013-05-03 22:34:12 xorgate has joined
2189 2013-05-03 22:34:26 <jgarzik> sipa: ok, yeah, will select if complete message but less than flood size.
2190 2013-05-03 22:34:32 <sipa> indeed
2191 2013-05-03 22:35:35 <sipa> thanks :)
2192 2013-05-03 22:35:41 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
2193 2013-05-03 22:36:01 <duSn> thestringpuller: make you own socket based protocol
2194 2013-05-03 22:36:01 JDuke128 has joined
2195 2013-05-03 22:36:36 Squidicuz has joined
2196 2013-05-03 22:36:42 <thestringpuller> that defeats the purpose of decoupling the bot from wallet...
2197 2013-05-03 22:37:06 <duSn> why?
2198 2013-05-03 22:38:29 Btceldur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2199 2013-05-03 22:39:43 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2200 2013-05-03 22:39:56 <thestringpuller> The bot does other things.
2201 2013-05-03 22:40:04 <thestringpuller> But he only takes commands from GPG.
2202 2013-05-03 22:40:37 HM has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2203 2013-05-03 22:42:35 canoon has joined
2204 2013-05-03 22:42:37 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2205 2013-05-03 22:42:55 CodeShark has joined
2206 2013-05-03 22:43:02 chmod755 has quit (Quit: chmod755)
2207 2013-05-03 22:43:30 mathildah has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2208 2013-05-03 22:44:49 HM has joined
2209 2013-05-03 22:45:22 <The_Fly> hm, the recent changes to master have made for a slightly interesting conflict in multiwallet
2210 2013-05-03 22:46:15 one_zero has joined
2211 2013-05-03 22:46:15 <The_Fly> prior to this it doesn't look like DB_CORRUPT, DB_NONCRITICAL_ERROR, etc. were checked
2212 2013-05-03 22:46:25 <The_Fly> (or even returned)
2213 2013-05-03 22:46:34 xorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2214 2013-05-03 22:46:43 xorgate has joined
2215 2013-05-03 22:47:29 <The_Fly> thankfully only conflict is in init.cpp
2216 2013-05-03 22:47:52 <The_Fly> but there's quite a few refs to pwalletMain back in now
2217 2013-05-03 22:50:15 <The_Fly> looking at the commits a bit closer i think it's a pretty painless merge
2218 2013-05-03 22:52:03 <shesek> is it possible to create/sign a transaction that's only valid if someone else makes another transaction? e.g. two parties want to send 1BTC each to some address, but only if the other party sends it too
2219 2013-05-03 22:56:12 <The_Fly> wait, no, those conditions were in, ignore me
2220 2013-05-03 22:56:44 <CodeShark> sheshek: it would be possible if it's done in a single transaction
2221 2013-05-03 22:57:11 bibbybob has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2222 2013-05-03 22:57:43 santoscork has quit (Quit: Auto logout …)
2223 2013-05-03 22:58:01 <The_Fly> revert the revert, they were *not* in multiwallet
2224 2013-05-03 22:58:11 <The_Fly> guess i have to move that code somewhere
2225 2013-05-03 22:58:15 <shesek> and how can two parties construct such a transaction without the possibility for one side to send the other side's money only?
2226 2013-05-03 22:58:18 <CodeShark> The_Fly: how's the multiwallet merge coming along?
2227 2013-05-03 22:58:36 <The_Fly> going well, last builds with 0mq all working nice
2228 2013-05-03 22:58:45 <CodeShark> have you pushed?
2229 2013-05-03 22:58:45 <The_Fly> existing test suite passes
2230 2013-05-03 22:58:51 <The_Fly> no i haven't yet
2231 2013-05-03 22:58:58 <The_Fly> and also fixed a few bugs in there
2232 2013-05-03 22:59:00 jim00001 has quit (Quit: jim00001)
2233 2013-05-03 22:59:01 <shesek> I'd make a transaction with my input of 1 BTC (lets assume some input has exact 1 BTC) and output of 2 BTC?
2234 2013-05-03 22:59:09 <shesek> than the other side adds his input?
2235 2013-05-03 22:59:09 <CodeShark> The_Fly: bugs with the multiwallet stuff?
2236 2013-05-03 22:59:12 <shesek> is something like that possible?
2237 2013-05-03 22:59:27 <The_Fly> CodeShark: there were some tiny thread related things which sipa helped me take out
2238 2013-05-03 22:59:32 <The_Fly> about the timed lock
2239 2013-05-03 22:59:49 <CodeShark> The_Fly: ah, right - yeah, the locks are extremely conservative in the RPC
2240 2013-05-03 22:59:50 <The_Fly> and something else i rooted out which was causing some errors on shutdown
2241 2013-05-03 23:00:03 <CodeShark> the RPC is definitely not designed for high concurrency
2242 2013-05-03 23:00:23 <The_Fly> all recent merges have been fine but this last batch has introduced a few things to init.cpp which will need moved
2243 2013-05-03 23:00:42 <sipa> shesek: yes
2244 2013-05-03 23:00:59 <CodeShark> while you're doing this, could you put the CWalletManager into separate files: walletmanager.h/walletmanager.cpp?
2245 2013-05-03 23:01:07 <The_Fly> yes np
2246 2013-05-03 23:01:09 jim00001 has joined
2247 2013-05-03 23:01:10 <CodeShark> I'd rather them not be part of wallet.h/wallet.cpp
2248 2013-05-03 23:01:13 <The_Fly> i noticed a few thigns
2249 2013-05-03 23:01:15 <The_Fly> *things
2250 2013-05-03 23:01:18 <sipa> CodeShark: how does your code deal with a wallet that needs rescanning?
2251 2013-05-03 23:01:20 <The_Fly> well, it's messy in there, in places
2252 2013-05-03 23:01:35 <CodeShark> sipa: the RPC allows for such parameters
2253 2013-05-03 23:01:37 <The_Fly> but still a very nice bit of code
2254 2013-05-03 23:01:51 <The_Fly> and exciting project!
2255 2013-05-03 23:01:51 <sipa> CodeShark: i mean in the GUI
2256 2013-05-03 23:01:53 <shesek> sipa, if I create and sign the 1 BTC -> 2 BTC transaction, and send the signed transaction to the other party, he can add more inputs to it?
2257 2013-05-03 23:02:07 <CodeShark> sipa: the GUI version I did was just a prototype
2258 2013-05-03 23:02:20 <sipa> shesek: you'll need SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY, i think, but yes
2259 2013-05-03 23:02:25 <CodeShark> the multiwallet-qt branch is dead
2260 2013-05-03 23:02:31 <sipa> oh :(
2261 2013-05-03 23:02:48 <The_Fly> i should really push shouldn't i, just a bit worried i might have gone against convention with my git logs
2262 2013-05-03 23:03:13 <shesek> sipa, thanks, I'll look into SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY
2263 2013-05-03 23:03:14 <CodeShark> instead, wumpus helped merge a new GUI architecture that supports multiple wallets but contains none of the core multiwallet stuff
2264 2013-05-03 23:03:18 <shesek> anything else relevant that I should read?
2265 2013-05-03 23:03:23 <sipa> CodeShark: ok
2266 2013-05-03 23:04:14 Grouver has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC)
2267 2013-05-03 23:05:48 <CodeShark> shesek: you could do what you want in two phases: phase 1) construct a transaction without signatures, let both parties add their inputs
2268 2013-05-03 23:06:05 <CodeShark> phase 2) each party signs his/her inputs, tx is broadcast
2269 2013-05-03 23:06:48 <The_Fly> this rescan stuff that's just gone in... do you think it's good to just leave it looking at wallet.dat for ReadBestBlock
2270 2013-05-03 23:06:59 etotheipi_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2271 2013-05-03 23:07:08 <The_Fly> it seems to be wallet specific
2272 2013-05-03 23:07:16 <The_Fly> so perhaps needs --rescan <walletname>
2273 2013-05-03 23:07:24 <The_Fly> sorry single dash :P
2274 2013-05-03 23:07:28 <sipa> sure
2275 2013-05-03 23:07:33 <The_Fly> cool
2276 2013-05-03 23:07:40 <sipa> well, or an alternative that is compatible with multiple wallets
2277 2013-05-03 23:07:53 <The_Fly> --rescan all ?
2278 2013-05-03 23:07:58 <sipa> -rescan will likely need to remain for compatibility, and refer to the default wallet
2279 2013-05-03 23:08:06 <The_Fly> sounds good
2280 2013-05-03 23:09:17 <The_Fly> nWalletDBUpdated is for the main wallet right?
2281 2013-05-03 23:10:07 thestringpuller has left ()
2282 2013-05-03 23:10:09 <sipa> yes, that needs to move inside CWallet or CWalletDB
2283 2013-05-03 23:10:16 <shesek> CodeShark, so both parties provide their input tx hash/index, construct the whole transaction, than one party signs it, sends it to the other party to sign it too?
2284 2013-05-03 23:10:18 <sipa> CWallet
2285 2013-05-03 23:10:21 systemParanoid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2286 2013-05-03 23:10:24 <The_Fly> ok
2287 2013-05-03 23:10:30 <sipa> shesek: that will certainly work
2288 2013-05-03 23:10:38 <CodeShark> shesek: correct
2289 2013-05-03 23:11:29 <shesek> how does signing it like that works? the second one to sign it just signs over the first signed transaction?
2290 2013-05-03 23:11:40 <sipa> no
2291 2013-05-03 23:11:48 <sipa> every input has its own signature
2292 2013-05-03 23:11:52 AndChat64721 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2293 2013-05-03 23:12:09 <The_Fly> right and will need to fork threads to flush every wallet
2294 2013-05-03 23:12:14 <The_Fly> i thought it was doing that already, hm
2295 2013-05-03 23:12:27 intrd has joined
2296 2013-05-03 23:12:33 <saivann> TD : The Bitcoin Kiez image is missing in your pull request - https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/172#issuecomment-17415553
2297 2013-05-03 23:12:33 <sipa> that flushing stuff should probably just become a timer
2298 2013-05-03 23:13:07 agricocb has joined
2299 2013-05-03 23:13:22 <shesek> how can I do that with bitcoind api? it seems like signrawtransaction operates on whole transactions only
2300 2013-05-03 23:13:50 <sipa> yes
2301 2013-05-03 23:13:54 <sipa> it signs whatever it can
2302 2013-05-03 23:14:05 <sipa> the output may be a partially-signed transaction
2303 2013-05-03 23:14:49 dvide has quit ()
2304 2013-05-03 23:15:45 <shesek> so bob uses createrawtransaction with his and alice's inputs, gets back a partially signed transaction, and sends it to alice
2305 2013-05-03 23:15:51 gecko has joined
2306 2013-05-03 23:15:53 <phantomcircuit> fun fact
2307 2013-05-03 23:15:59 <phantomcircuit> trying to encrypt a wallet with 100k keys
2308 2013-05-03 23:16:02 <shesek> * and signrawtransaction
2309 2013-05-03 23:16:02 <phantomcircuit> is not a good idea
2310 2013-05-03 23:16:22 ThomasV has joined
2311 2013-05-03 23:16:25 <shesek> when alice runs signrawtransaction over the partially signed transaction, it knows to just add the requires signatured?
2312 2013-05-03 23:16:28 <CodeShark> using the bitcoind wallet with 100k keys generally is probably not a good idea :p
2313 2013-05-03 23:16:40 <sipa> ^
2314 2013-05-03 23:16:59 <sipa> shesek: indeed
2315 2013-05-03 23:17:00 <gecko> Hi, I'm trying to compile pooler's cpuminer on windows with MinGW, after "LIBCURL="-lcurldll" ./configure CFLAGS="-O3" I get the following output: http://pastie.org/pastes/7760324/text?key=4uswabgcrillwstkqq20g
2316 2013-05-03 23:17:19 <gecko> I tried to look to see if anybody else had this problem, and didn't see it
2317 2013-05-03 23:17:30 <gecko> anyone got a clue what's wrong?
2318 2013-05-03 23:18:36 <shesek> cool. thanks sipa and CodeShark
2319 2013-05-03 23:19:06 felixweis has joined
2320 2013-05-03 23:19:16 Plarkplark_ has quit ()
2321 2013-05-03 23:20:36 <CodeShark> shesek: yw
2322 2013-05-03 23:23:36 felixweis has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2323 2013-05-03 23:23:40 twmz__ has joined
2324 2013-05-03 23:24:11 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2325 2013-05-03 23:25:01 meefozio has quit ()
2326 2013-05-03 23:26:50 <The_Fly> so seems i will have to check if rescan is needed on each wallet on startup
2327 2013-05-03 23:26:58 <sipa> yes
2328 2013-05-03 23:27:07 <The_Fly> and move nWalletDBUpdated
2329 2013-05-03 23:27:13 <The_Fly> and im sure a few other things
2330 2013-05-03 23:27:27 twmz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2331 2013-05-03 23:27:38 <The_Fly> but i am le tired, so i shall have a nap
2332 2013-05-03 23:28:01 D34TH has joined
2333 2013-05-03 23:28:01 <CodeShark> The_Fly: when do you think you'll have something pushed I can try out?
2334 2013-05-03 23:28:41 <CodeShark> I'd love to try it out :)
2335 2013-05-03 23:29:08 <The_Fly> soon :) its all building fine and running well, recent merge has highlighted these things i need to move
2336 2013-05-03 23:29:25 <The_Fly> and i'll do a sweep and see if there's anything else
2337 2013-05-03 23:29:45 <The_Fly> the 0mq branch is merging with no conflicts, it touches the code in very few places thankfully
2338 2013-05-03 23:29:55 <The_Fly> but yeah, i'll move cwalletmanager also
2339 2013-05-03 23:30:04 <The_Fly> and work on it over the weekend
2340 2013-05-03 23:30:12 <CodeShark> unfortunately, my first go at the multiwallet stuff didn't really take future merges into account in the design :(
2341 2013-05-03 23:30:22 <CodeShark> or at least in the commits
2342 2013-05-03 23:30:46 <The_Fly> it's not too bad, the fact i have it running and can RPC invoke wallet-specific commands is promising
2343 2013-05-03 23:30:47 <sipa> i think something like that will inevitably conflict anyway
2344 2013-05-03 23:30:56 <sipa> better just try to have good timing, i guess
2345 2013-05-03 23:31:06 <sipa> (right after a release)
2346 2013-05-03 23:31:17 <The_Fly> im going to merge it along for a while and see what happens
2347 2013-05-03 23:31:25 <CodeShark> by keeping the CWalletManager in separate files and waiting until later commits before making modifications to files that use the global pwalletMain variable, it will be easier to merge incrementally
2348 2013-05-03 23:31:30 <The_Fly> at least in the process of doing so im getting exposure to the code
2349 2013-05-03 23:31:52 <The_Fly> removing pwalletmain would be nice
2350 2013-05-03 23:32:05 <The_Fly> yes sipa, right after a release
2351 2013-05-03 23:32:13 <CodeShark> yes, that was the original idea - but I later realized that pwalletMain is touched by a bunch of files
2352 2013-05-03 23:32:18 <CodeShark> including the test suites
2353 2013-05-03 23:32:24 <The_Fly> im sure there are a lot of forks with nice features that do touch pwalletmain also
2354 2013-05-03 23:32:35 <sipa> such as?
2355 2013-05-03 23:32:39 <The_Fly> i dont know lol
2356 2013-05-03 23:32:45 <The_Fly> maybe im being too optimistic
2357 2013-05-03 23:32:56 <CodeShark> so as an interim solution, it would probably be a good idea to keep a pwalletMain global variable that points to pWalletManager->GetDefaultWallet();
2358 2013-05-03 23:33:05 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
2359 2013-05-03 23:33:07 <The_Fly> yes, im leaving that there so far
2360 2013-05-03 23:33:39 <The_Fly> and any any merge which introduces code back in touching wallet.dat im having to edit a  bit
2361 2013-05-03 23:33:53 <The_Fly> but this last one is, also, very trivial
2362 2013-05-03 23:34:09 <The_Fly> and flagged up things that need fixed i wouldn't have had the time to find
2363 2013-05-03 23:34:22 <The_Fly> unfortunately have to spread my time between this and a "real" job
2364 2013-05-03 23:34:25 <The_Fly> pah
2365 2013-05-03 23:34:39 <CodeShark> most of us do, The_Fly :p
2366 2013-05-03 23:34:46 <The_Fly> life.
2367 2013-05-03 23:34:51 <The_Fly> :)
2368 2013-05-03 23:35:22 richcollins has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2369 2013-05-03 23:35:32 <sipa> life is what happens to you, while you're busy making other plans
2370 2013-05-03 23:35:50 <jgarzik> ;p
2371 2013-05-03 23:35:54 <The_Fly> indeed
2372 2013-05-03 23:36:34 AndChat64721 has joined
2373 2013-05-03 23:36:46 <The_Fly> a few bad days for BTC
2374 2013-05-03 23:37:08 <The_Fly> $91
2375 2013-05-03 23:38:36 <CodeShark> I think we need to keep some perspective - not too long ago it was under $10 :p
2376 2013-05-03 23:38:51 <sipa> not too long ago it was under $1 :p
2377 2013-05-03 23:38:54 Springy has joined
2378 2013-05-03 23:38:54 <The_Fly> very true
2379 2013-05-03 23:39:05 <gecko> does anyone have clue about this? http://pastie.org/pastes/7760483/text?key=b5axygc0d1ar3w8mydrzcg
2380 2013-05-03 23:39:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: eh, it's been well over 2 years since then :o
2381 2013-05-03 23:39:14 <The_Fly> when i thought "wow this is a great idea" then forgot about it and missed the bubble a few months ago
2382 2013-05-03 23:39:19 Springy is now known as Guest97551
2383 2013-05-03 23:39:27 <sipa> Luke-Jr: in terms of currency exchanges, i don't think that's considered "too long ago" :p
2384 2013-05-03 23:40:04 <Luke-Jr> gecko: you're running it with -03 instead of -O3
2385 2013-05-03 23:40:06 <The_Fly> well... i still have my testnet coins
2386 2013-05-03 23:40:22 <CodeShark> lol
2387 2013-05-03 23:40:22 <gecko> Luke-Jr: Thank you )
2388 2013-05-03 23:41:00 <Luke-Jr> gecko: also, I wouldn't recommend anything higher than -O2
2389 2013-05-03 23:42:38 <gecko> Luke-Jr: I was just copying instructions from pooler cpuminer page
2390 2013-05-03 23:42:47 <gecko> first time i compiled something actually
2391 2013-05-03 23:43:11 <gecko> hmm now missing required libcurl >=7.10.1
2392 2013-05-03 23:43:33 <SirDefaced> compiling boost takes so long lol
2393 2013-05-03 23:43:47 <CodeShark> -j8 :)
2394 2013-05-03 23:44:07 <SirDefaced> yea i forgot to add that little param -,-
2395 2013-05-03 23:44:15 Guest97551 has quit ()
2396 2013-05-03 23:44:49 <The_Fly> yep
2397 2013-05-03 23:44:52 <The_Fly> to -j 8
2398 2013-05-03 23:45:08 <The_Fly> i know when compiling is done when the laptop fan spins down again
2399 2013-05-03 23:45:10 saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2400 2013-05-03 23:45:14 <The_Fly> can go away and browse, come back
2401 2013-05-03 23:45:19 <The_Fly> protip
2402 2013-05-03 23:45:36 <midnightmagic> -j32! ha ha haaa
2403 2013-05-03 23:45:53 <Luke-Jr> -j1024
2404 2013-05-03 23:46:06 <midnightmagic> you and your fancy schmancy distcc
2405 2013-05-03 23:46:10 <The_Fly> she cannae take it
2406 2013-05-03 23:46:15 <CodeShark> pretty soon -j1024 will be typical :p
2407 2013-05-03 23:46:25 <sipa> heh
2408 2013-05-03 23:46:27 h2odysee has joined
2409 2013-05-03 23:46:40 da2ce7-mobile has joined
2410 2013-05-03 23:46:49 <sipa> i was having 125 connections for such a long time that i thought my fdset/maxconnections patches had broken the config setting
2411 2013-05-03 23:47:05 <sipa> after some debugging... i have 126
2412 2013-05-03 23:47:10 <SirDefaced> -j 1024 good lord
2413 2013-05-03 23:47:17 <h2odysee> are transaction IDs always 64 chars?
2414 2013-05-03 23:47:22 <sipa> h2odysee: in hex, yes
2415 2013-05-03 23:47:24 <jgarzik> SirDefaced: if you have the memory, why not ;p
2416 2013-05-03 23:47:35 <SirDefaced> you're right, why not ^_^
2417 2013-05-03 23:48:43 gagecolton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2418 2013-05-03 23:48:45 jeewee has joined
2419 2013-05-03 23:49:21 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
2420 2013-05-03 23:51:03 <flyingkiwiguy> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461.html
2421 2013-05-03 23:51:48 <phantomcircuit> flyingkiwiguy, want
2422 2013-05-03 23:52:10 <phantomcircuit> flyingkiwiguy, mac book pro, y/n?
2423 2013-05-03 23:52:16 <The_Fly> 4470K!?
2424 2013-05-03 23:52:41 <The_Fly> i have a 3930k, now i wants 4470
2425 2013-05-03 23:53:43 <The_Fly> ill flog the old one for bitcoins ;)
2426 2013-05-03 23:54:07 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: doubt it
2427 2013-05-03 23:54:18 <gecko> http://images.tweaktown.com/news/3/0/30137_1_cpu_z_result_shows_haswell_core_i7_4770k_at_7_ghz_full.jpg
2428 2013-05-03 23:54:25 <Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: if only I had time, it'd be nice to do p2p distcc ;ZP
2429 2013-05-03 23:54:26 <Luke-Jr> :P*
2430 2013-05-03 23:54:52 <gecko> now this thing is complaining about no libcurl dll
2431 2013-05-03 23:55:25 <gecko> I used http://curl.haxx.se/gknw.net/7.30.0/dist-w32/curl-7.30.0-devel-mingw32.zip
2432 2013-05-03 23:55:26 meefozio has joined
2433 2013-05-03 23:55:52 <gecko> there is no libcurl.m4 or curl-config as the wiki says, i got from another download
2434 2013-05-03 23:56:15 <gecko> has anyone built this themselves?
2435 2013-05-03 23:56:23 <The_Fly> that error checking on nLoadWalletRet init.cpp that recently went into master already exists in multiwallet:src/wallet.cpp, exactly
2436 2013-05-03 23:56:47 <The_Fly> bonus
2437 2013-05-03 23:57:32 <The_Fly> but there's something extra, RandAddSeedPerfmon
2438 2013-05-03 23:58:08 <duSn> gecko: you have libcurl.dll from that zip right? put it in the local dir
2439 2013-05-03 23:58:17 <duSn> where you are working from
2440 2013-05-03 23:58:52 <gecko> duSn: yes