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   6 2013-05-17 00:05:47 <SteveDekorte> what prevents a given tx from being executed multiple times? Does the client reject tx hashes that are already in the longest chain?
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   9 2013-05-17 00:07:10 <gmaxwell> SteveDekorte: uh. executed?
  10 2013-05-17 00:07:18 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin isn't a system of accounts and balances.
  11 2013-05-17 00:07:31 <gmaxwell> Your commect suggests to me that your mental model is all wrong.
  12 2013-05-17 00:07:35 <SteveDekorte> put into a block
  13 2013-05-17 00:07:37 <gmaxwell> er, comment*
  14 2013-05-17 00:07:48 <SteveDekorte> it may be :)
  15 2013-05-17 00:08:02 <gmaxwell> A transaction can't be included in a block twice because the first instance would have consumed its inputs and left it an orphan.
  16 2013-05-17 00:09:20 tmsk has quit (Quit: tmsk)
  17 2013-05-17 00:10:28 <dansmith_btc> nsillik, thanks OrderedDict works seamlessly
  18 2013-05-17 00:10:31 Chuky has quit (Quit: • IRcap • 8.71 •)
  19 2013-05-17 00:11:08 <SteveDekorte> an input is an address, right? If address A contained 1 BTC and a tx1 sent it to address B and then someone sent another 1BTC to address A, could tx1 be accepted into a later block?
  20 2013-05-17 00:11:16 <gmaxwell> No.
  21 2013-05-17 00:11:41 <gmaxwell> http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf < see the first figure.
  22 2013-05-17 00:11:52 monad has joined
  23 2013-05-17 00:11:57 <monad> hi all
  24 2013-05-17 00:12:02 <gmaxwell> An input is an output created by a prior transactions. The transactions form a directed acyclic graph.
  25 2013-05-17 00:12:19 <monad> does the standard bitcoind allow you to send tx's that are not confirmed...that are just in your memory pool?
  26 2013-05-17 00:12:39 <gmaxwell> s/send/spend?  only if they're yours.
  27 2013-05-17 00:13:07 vrs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  28 2013-05-17 00:13:17 <monad> i mean sendrawtransaction using a tx that is in your memory pool
  29 2013-05-17 00:13:49 <gmaxwell> monad: if its already in your memory pool it'll just do nothing.
  30 2013-05-17 00:14:08 <monad> ..an in coming transaction
  31 2013-05-17 00:14:16 <gmaxwell> SteveDekorte: the inputs are specified by pairs of {txid, out index}.  You can think of the outputs a transaction creates as specific physical coins of specified values, and a subsiquent transaction spends one or more coins completely.
  32 2013-05-17 00:17:11 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
  33 2013-05-17 00:18:14 <SteveDekorte> gmaxwell: ah, that makes more sense - thank you
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  35 2013-05-17 00:20:44 <Scrat> sup with the spam on b.i
  36 2013-05-17 00:21:04 <Scrat> 0.0000025 or 0 spam
  37 2013-05-17 00:21:05 dansmith_btc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  38 2013-05-17 00:22:03 <Scrat> also, last block was 1.28 kb
  39 2013-05-17 00:25:05 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
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  45 2013-05-17 00:31:59 <monad> can anyone tell me what might be wrong with the raw transaction?
  46 2013-05-17 00:31:59 <monad> 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f0100000000ffffffff0201000000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac2fd39700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e39ecd988ac00000000
  47 2013-05-17 00:32:35 g0thX has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
  48 2013-05-17 00:32:50 <monad> its not being accepted into my mempool
  49 2013-05-17 00:33:28 <gmaxwell> It has an output of 1e-8.
  50 2013-05-17 00:33:34 <lianj> "value":"0.00000001"
  51 2013-05-17 00:33:54 <lianj> also no script sig
  52 2013-05-17 00:34:30 <gmaxwell> Thats not permitted in any version of bitcoin since 0.3.18ish without a fee. Not permitted in current git at all. And yea, you need to sign your input.
  53 2013-05-17 00:34:47 <monad> I see that I need to sign
  54 2013-05-17 00:35:02 <monad> i think that the feeis included though
  55 2013-05-17 00:35:08 <monad> how can you tell there is no fee?
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  60 2013-05-17 00:35:15 <monad> isn't "0.00000001" a satoshi?
  61 2013-05-17 00:35:34 <gmaxwell> I didn't check, because as I said it won't be permitted in the latest stuff regardless of the fee.
  62 2013-05-17 00:35:55 <lianj> but yea, you have 0.0005 fee included
  63 2013-05-17 00:36:07 <monad> right
  64 2013-05-17 00:36:08 <gmaxwell> Yes, indeed, it has a fee.
  65 2013-05-17 00:36:09 <lianj> it just not signed and the 0.00000001 is disallowed too
  66 2013-05-17 00:36:28 <monad> isn't 0.00000001 a satoshi?
  67 2013-05-17 00:36:30 <monad> is it too small?
  68 2013-05-17 00:36:40 <monad> i didn't sign it. i got that part
  69 2013-05-17 00:36:46 <lianj> since recently yes
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  71 2013-05-17 00:37:38 <gmaxwell> Yes, you can't make single outputs less than 54µbtc (technically a fraction of the configured base fee) now. (they're not economical to redeem, and they're used in data flooding spam attacks)
  72 2013-05-17 00:37:38 <monad> even with a fee?!
  73 2013-05-17 00:37:50 <gmaxwell> Even with a fee.
  74 2013-05-17 00:38:08 <monad> ok
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  76 2013-05-17 00:39:19 <keystroke> is the current flooding of the "correct horse battery staple" brain wallet a current spam attack?
  77 2013-05-17 00:39:47 <Cusipzzz> yes
  78 2013-05-17 00:40:05 <keystroke> i guess they are using that wallet to try to get people to withdraw from it to amplify the attack?
  79 2013-05-17 00:40:18 <gmaxwell> keystroke: maybe. who knows.
  80 2013-05-17 00:40:34 <keystroke> ok yea i don't see an obvious reason
  81 2013-05-17 00:40:37 <gmaxwell> it might be intended to hurt mtgox, ... it seems to have had that effect.
  82 2013-05-17 00:40:43 <keystroke> how so?
  83 2013-05-17 00:40:44 sacrelege has joined
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  85 2013-05-17 00:41:15 <gmaxwell> Because someone imported it as a swept key, and then mtgox has been burning itself out trying to sweep up the inputs. ... and in doing so delaying all withdraws.
  86 2013-05-17 00:41:30 <monad> 0.00000054
  87 2013-05-17 00:41:32 <keystroke> oh wow, nasty
  88 2013-05-17 00:42:02 <keystroke> gox just can't win lately
  89 2013-05-17 00:42:11 <gonffen> it has been a bad week for the magic of the gathering online exchange
  90 2013-05-17 00:42:17 <dugo> a minimum transfer amount different from the precision of the currency is going to hurt adoption in a lot of transaction systems
  91 2013-05-17 00:42:20 <keystroke> haha
  92 2013-05-17 00:42:34 <Cusipzzz> 0.00000540
  93 2013-05-17 00:42:52 <gonffen> dugo: tell that to Canada :(
  94 2013-05-17 00:43:09 <keystroke> canada has no penny now? nice
  95 2013-05-17 00:43:26 <dugo> not talking about chartal money here
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  98 2013-05-17 00:44:10 <gonffen> I'm pretty sure they're still in circulation (I got some as change in NY around Christmas) but they're not coining any more
  99 2013-05-17 00:44:16 <gmaxwell> dugo: ow. your waving hands hit me in the face.
 100 2013-05-17 00:44:23 <Cusipzzz> i think the limit is too small. there is no economic reason to have an output that small
 101 2013-05-17 00:45:09 <monad> still rejected :010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f0100000000ffffffff0218150000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e39ecd988ac00000000
 102 2013-05-17 00:45:28 <dugo> gmaxwell: i mean no harm
 103 2013-05-17 00:45:37 <gmaxwell> Sure you can spend them— though its generally irrational to do so, as they require more in marginal fees to spend than their worth— which is half the reason for disallowing more of them—, but you're inhibited from creating more of them.
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 105 2013-05-17 00:46:11 <gmaxwell> monad: still not signed.
 106 2013-05-17 00:46:24 <monad> i know its not signed ;)
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 108 2013-05-17 00:46:44 <gmaxwell> monad: then why are you saying still rejected?
 109 2013-05-17 00:46:46 <monad> here is the signed one
 110 2013-05-17 00:46:51 <monad> 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f010000006b483045022100eda8f728595cdd3b663a4e4575fca500594893d261e86cdadfcbfd9b26808f5502207f2f890989e2fd3849ec26aa776020256ea52e64357a0708ce53192fbe437ec1012102a2bd99bc908a8d5a88cb9fca9709c5d515242dab5e582a958816554645f580fbffffffff0218150000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e
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 112 2013-05-17 00:47:03 <dugo> playing chess over the giro system with cents used to be a hobby here
 113 2013-05-17 00:47:04 <monad> i donno.  bitcoind still won't let me send it
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 115 2013-05-17 00:48:27 <gmaxwell> monad: I get a decode there, I suspect IRC truncated you.
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 118 2013-05-17 00:49:08 <monad> 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f010000006b483045022100eda8f728595cdd3b663a4e4575fca500594893d261e86cdadfcbfd9b26808f5502207f2f890989e2fd3849ec26aa776020256ea52e64357a0708ce53192fbe437ec1012102a2bd99bc908a8d5a88cb9fca9709c5d515242dab5e582a958816554645f580fbffffffff0218150000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e
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 120 2013-05-17 00:49:12 <monad> hrm
 121 2013-05-17 00:49:32 <monad> that should be complete
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 123 2013-05-17 00:50:03 <gmaxwell> IRC is truncating your message. Use a pastebin.
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 126 2013-05-17 00:50:41 <monad> is there a way to clear out my mempool incase there is some kind of duplicate hanging around in there
 127 2013-05-17 00:51:05 <gmaxwell> restart your node.
 128 2013-05-17 00:51:17 <gmaxwell> and yes, that would get you.
 129 2013-05-17 00:51:20 <monad> just kill it and rerun it?
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 139 2013-05-17 00:52:34 <gmaxwell> yes that will completely flush your mempool.
 140 2013-05-17 00:53:44 <dugo> i ran a bunch of usenet peering servers late 90s w/ full feed and bitcoind resource consumption is joke compared to what they ate
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 142 2013-05-17 00:54:00 <monad> after a restart...it does rejects ;(
 143 2013-05-17 00:54:10 <dugo> what is the bottleneck in these mini tx's?
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 153 2013-05-17 00:56:46 <gmaxwell> dugo: they cost more to consume then they are worth (e.g. you pay a penny to spend a tenth penny) and they are commonly used to abuse the system and embed unprunable random data storage in the unspent transaction output set (the most expensive place in the system to store data)
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 170 2013-05-17 01:03:21 <monad> still mystified
 171 2013-05-17 01:03:22 <monad> ./bin/bitcoind sendrawtransaction 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f010000006a473044022055fe18060d90998bb3c7d52239d332fdc883bfd584a5f5b4b1159ed623700818022016bb7e334d6b97550ae7e572b741ae6405812bd7dac52b6ce53f5c6a86065b25012102a2bd99bc908a8d5a88cb9fca9709c5d515242dab5e582a958816554645f580fbffffffff0218150000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a91453
 172 2013-05-17 01:03:29 <monad> err
 173 2013-05-17 01:03:30 normanrichards has joined
 174 2013-05-17 01:03:36 <monad> point is, i get this
 175 2013-05-17 01:03:36 <monad> error: {"code":-22,"message":"TX rejected"}
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 223 2013-05-17 01:03:48 <monad> even though decoderawtransaction can decode
 224 2013-05-17 01:03:54 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
 225 2013-05-17 01:03:57 <monad> 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f010000006a473044022055fe18060d90998bb3c7d52239d332fdc883bfd584a5f5b4b1159ed623700818022016bb7e334d6b97550ae7e572b741ae6405812bd7dac52b6ce53f5c6a86065b25012102a2bd99bc908a8d5a88cb9fca9709c5d515242dab5e582a958816554645f580fbffffffff0218150000000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e39
 226 2013-05-17 01:04:04 goodbtc has joined
 227 2013-05-17 01:04:06 <dugo> gmaxwell: thx, need to ponder on that ..
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 230 2013-05-17 01:04:36 <lianj> monad: its truncated
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 233 2013-05-17 01:05:04 <monad> what are the last 10 characters that you got?
 234 2013-05-17 01:05:11 <dugo> monad: pipe it through fold
 235 2013-05-17 01:05:23 <monad> dugo: not quite sure...
 236 2013-05-17 01:05:34 <lianj> paste it so some damn site
 237 2013-05-17 01:05:36 <monad> 000000001976a9142d13f7b00d11735b1dd31fc779f2bd087f4cd17288ac18be9700000000001976a9145308cc36e37d5ecbeb7418d04ccdc08b2e39ecd988ac00000000 | fold 010000000186fd8bd49e7dab787d6238d68e96e0944bdcdc5ee5589bf9b4b62c4667124b4f010000 006a473044022055fe18060d90998bb3c7d52239d332fdc883bfd584a5f5b4b1159ed62370081802 2016bb7e334d6b97550ae7e572b741ae6405812bd7dac52b6ce53f5c6a86065b25012102a2bd99bc 908a8d5a88cb9fca9709c5d515242dab5e582a958816554
 238 2013-05-17 01:05:42 <monad> errr
 239 2013-05-17 01:05:42 <monad> ok
 240 2013-05-17 01:05:43 <monad> will do
 241 2013-05-17 01:06:15 <monad> http://pastebin.com/hDTmQu7t
 242 2013-05-17 01:06:58 <monad> alright,
 243 2013-05-17 01:07:11 <monad> here is a better paste that explains what I am seeing.
 244 2013-05-17 01:07:11 <monad> http://pastebin.com/hXpMjDbQ
 245 2013-05-17 01:09:07 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr|what's going on??
 246 2013-05-17 01:09:19 <lianj> signature looks good
 247 2013-05-17 01:10:14 <monad> I'm completely baffeled
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 253 2013-05-17 01:13:06 <monad> its from here
 254 2013-05-17 01:13:06 <monad>             if (!tx.AcceptToMemoryPool(state, true, false))                 throw JSONRPCError(RPC_DESERIALIZATION_ERROR, "TX rejected"); // TODO: report validation state
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 267 2013-05-17 01:22:49 <monad> anyone have a couple of minutes to demystify me?
 268 2013-05-17 01:23:10 <copumpkin> you are a lax 2-functor from a terminal bicategory, hth
 269 2013-05-17 01:23:18 <monad> I've created a raw transaction but it won't send
 270 2013-05-17 01:23:18 <monad> http://pastebin.com/hXpMjDbQ
 271 2013-05-17 01:23:35 <monad> copumpkin: woah
 272 2013-05-17 01:25:33 * nsh hires copumpkin as a category theory text adventure delivery agent
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 341 2013-05-17 02:41:21 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 342 2013-05-17 02:41:21 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 343 2013-05-17 02:41:21 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 344 2013-05-17 02:41:22 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 345 2013-05-17 02:41:22 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 346 2013-05-17 02:41:22 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 347 2013-05-17 02:41:23 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 348 2013-05-17 02:41:23 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 349 2013-05-17 02:41:24 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 350 2013-05-17 02:41:24 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 351 2013-05-17 02:41:24 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 352 2013-05-17 02:41:25 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 353 2013-05-17 02:41:25 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 354 2013-05-17 02:41:25 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 355 2013-05-17 02:41:37 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 356 2013-05-17 02:41:37 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 357 2013-05-17 02:41:37 <Cusipzzz> uh
 358 2013-05-17 02:41:37 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 359 2013-05-17 02:41:37 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 360 2013-05-17 02:41:38 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 361 2013-05-17 02:41:38 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 362 2013-05-17 02:41:39 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 363 2013-05-17 02:41:39 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 364 2013-05-17 02:41:40 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }{10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bi
 365 2013-05-17 02:41:40 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 366 2013-05-17 02:41:41 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 367 2013-05-17 02:41:42 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 368 2013-05-17 02:41:42 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 369 2013-05-17 02:41:42 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 370 2013-05-17 02:41:43 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 371 2013-05-17 02:41:43 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 372 2013-05-17 02:41:44 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 373 2013-05-17 02:41:44 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }{10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bi
 374 2013-05-17 02:42:20 <nsh> (gmaxwell, midnightmagic: spam
 375 2013-05-17 02:42:20 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, ^
 376 2013-05-17 02:42:48 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 377 2013-05-17 02:42:50 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 378 2013-05-17 02:42:50 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 379 2013-05-17 02:42:50 <gagywag> v
 380 2013-05-17 02:42:51 <gagywag> {10 bitcoin-$850}{www.bitcoinarr.com}positive outcome send bitcoin within 15 minutes.accept paypal {1 bitcoin-$99}{2 bitcoin-$196}{5 bitcoin-$466}{15 bitcoin-$1175} {20 bitcoin-$1499}{30 bitcoin=$1999}{ www.bitcoinarr.com }
 381 2013-05-17 02:43:02 <nsh> ty
 382 2013-05-17 02:43:20 * sipa loves kicking people from an airplane
 383 2013-05-17 02:43:25 <nsh> bahaha
 384 2013-05-17 02:43:46 <nsh> !quotes add * sipa loves kicking people from an airplane
 385 2013-05-17 02:43:47 <gribble> Error: "quotes" is not a valid command.
 386 2013-05-17 02:43:49 <nsh> shup
 387 2013-05-17 02:44:23 <nsh> i will be quoting you out-of-context whenever i speak to journalists about the power-hungry bitcoin devs, sipa
 388 2013-05-17 02:44:34 <nsh> (which is like literally all the time)
 389 2013-05-17 02:44:58 <sipa> haha
 390 2013-05-17 02:46:14 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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 395 2013-05-17 02:52:06 <owowo> OMG! cheap bitcoin!
 396 2013-05-17 02:54:18 <k00shi> sipa: What airline are you flying?
 397 2013-05-17 02:56:24 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 398 2013-05-17 02:57:08 <sipa> k00shi: delta
 399 2013-05-17 02:57:26 <Cusipzzz> how much was the internet? 14.99? 19.99 ??
 400 2013-05-17 02:57:27 <k00shi> Free wifi on Delta these days, or paid?
 401 2013-05-17 02:57:35 <sipa> paid
 402 2013-05-17 02:57:50 <sipa> 7
 403 2013-05-17 02:57:59 <lianj> whats the ping time and traceroute? :)
 404 2013-05-17 02:58:06 <Cusipzzz> they hit ya pretty hard for a couple hour flight, i think I paid $15 on American
 405 2013-05-17 02:58:23 <Cusipzzz> try syncing a bitcoind :)
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 411 2013-05-17 03:02:49 <k00shi> :)
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 416 2013-05-17 03:13:23 <sipa> 1.5 Mbit downstream, 0.5 up
 417 2013-05-17 03:13:39 <sipa> well, downstream is quite upwards here
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 459 2013-05-17 03:57:33 foo_ has joined
 460 2013-05-17 03:58:19 <foo_> Theoretically, just how long might it take to brute force someone's private key?
 461 2013-05-17 03:58:30 <foo_> Like a really fucking long time right?
 462 2013-05-17 03:58:50 Bjander has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 464 2013-05-17 03:59:20 <Eleuthria> You'd be better off using that power to doublespend
 465 2013-05-17 03:59:24 <Eleuthria> A couple thousand times
 466 2013-05-17 03:59:40 <Cusipzzz> but yes, a really fucking long time
 467 2013-05-17 04:00:31 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 468 2013-05-17 04:00:33 franl has quit (Quit: O Elbereth!  Gilthoniel!  We still remember ...)
 469 2013-05-17 04:01:24 <Ry4an> Didn't applied cryptography have a really good "how likely is this" table in the forward?
 470 2013-05-17 04:07:31 XertroV1 has joined
 471 2013-05-17 04:09:01 <beethoven8201> so I've sent this tx something like 4 times (raw tx): 22a06e555e9cc8ea8d6ea4e7d5e7ecab6ff27c89131691ea93a4fcef78fdf032 with no effect. after half an hour or so it generally is no longer shown on blockchain.info . am I doing something wrong?
 472 2013-05-17 04:09:27 jedunnigan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 473 2013-05-17 04:10:14 <owowo> http://blockchain.info/address/1FUCKyoUuxWX3faYF9EtF5AcDPCj3ftQ9q <--- need IsDust() ;o)
 474 2013-05-17 04:10:28 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 475 2013-05-17 04:10:35 <owowo> and no, that is not my address.
 476 2013-05-17 04:11:13 <Eleuthria> I think it's somebody's attempt at protesting the change to fee/dust policies...the source address is nothing but spam
 477 2013-05-17 04:11:20 <Eleuthria> Starting to patch BTC Guild's servers to filter out that garbage.
 478 2013-05-17 04:11:26 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 479 2013-05-17 04:11:48 <owowo> nice! that's what  i was wishing for! woohoo!
 480 2013-05-17 04:12:37 <owowo> <3
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 489 2013-05-17 04:19:33 <rs0_> Eleuthria: what specifically are you filtering on?
 490 2013-05-17 04:19:59 <Eleuthria> looking at the 0.8.2rc and the dust filtering
 491 2013-05-17 04:20:11 <Eleuthria> Haven't done anything yet, just considering it
 492 2013-05-17 04:22:03 <owowo> I would guess this shit will not stop but rather go exponential until 0.8.2 comes out
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 557 2013-05-17 05:30:45 <midnightmagic> :-/
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 565 2013-05-17 05:43:13 <dugo> I think it's somebody's attempt at promoting the change to fee/dust policies</devils advocate>
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 597 2013-05-17 06:19:31 <instaman> hi guys... anyone can help regarding electrum?
 598 2013-05-17 06:24:52 Thepok has joined
 599 2013-05-17 06:25:15 <instaman> how to transfer electrum wallet to multibit?
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 604 2013-05-17 06:48:21 <amiller> dammit
 605 2013-05-17 06:48:25 <amiller> gmaxwell now i think adam back's thing works
 606 2013-05-17 06:48:36 <amiller> try to talk me out of it again
 607 2013-05-17 06:49:00 <amiller> you can't use this commitment scheme to enforce that something *will* or even *can* be spent in a desired way
 608 2013-05-17 06:49:11 zoinky has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 609 2013-05-17 06:49:20 <amiller> but you can use it to prove that something *can't* be spent in any *other* than the desired way
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 613 2013-05-17 06:50:20 <gmaxwell> amiller: I think I agree with that.
 614 2013-05-17 06:50:35 <gmaxwell> but I think the attacker can increase the cost for blacklisted transactions.
 615 2013-05-17 06:50:55 milone has joined
 616 2013-05-17 06:51:20 <amiller> so first of all it certainly doesn't achieve any security property above what zerocoin does
 617 2013-05-17 06:51:25 <amiller> but it's possibly more efficient / simpler
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 621 2013-05-17 06:53:15 <amiller> maybe it doesn't work because of splits and merges not really being possible
 622 2013-05-17 06:53:28 <gmaxwell> yes, this was what I thought too.. but I think the blacklisters can basically make the tx cost of blacklisted coins grow without bound over time.
 623 2013-05-17 06:53:59 mollison has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 624 2013-05-17 06:54:22 <amiller> i'm starting to feel the temptation of fancy crypto though like if all you need to do is given a commitment, check that it was included somewhere previously, then that can possibly be done with an accumulator or the equivalent of a bloom filter
 625 2013-05-17 06:54:50 john_z has quit (Quit: Bye..)
 626 2013-05-17 06:56:07 <amiller> i think it's may be a better approach to define the goal using abstract crypto and then back it off using ordinary hashes and commitments and guy fawkesish stuff only after that
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 633 2013-05-17 07:03:04 <gmaxwell> amiller: are you coming to the conference?
 634 2013-05-17 07:03:18 <amiller> gmaxwell, no
 635 2013-05-17 07:03:46 <amiller> unfortunately
 636 2013-05-17 07:04:19 volkl has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 637 2013-05-17 07:06:01 <amiller> how much does it cost to rent a telepresence robot in silicon valley
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 641 2013-05-17 07:08:21 dansmith_btc has joined
 642 2013-05-17 07:09:11 <gmaxwell> amiller: I'm pretty sure you can hire a meat based one.
 643 2013-05-17 07:09:24 john_z has joined
 644 2013-05-17 07:09:51 <sipa> what if you're vegetarian?
 645 2013-05-17 07:09:56 * sipa sleeps
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 649 2013-05-17 07:12:25 <gmaxwell> do not eat your telepresense robot!
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 651 2013-05-17 07:15:38 <coolfengyu> upgrade dead.
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 654 2013-05-17 07:17:19 <gmaxwell> amiller: https://www.taskrabbit.com/
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 657 2013-05-17 07:18:13 <amiller> it would be fun to double spend petertodd via meatproxy
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 700 2013-05-17 08:05:18 <ThomasV> etotheipi_: I have completed the first preliminary implementation of your hashtree :)
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 710 2013-05-17 08:30:21 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: hi
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 744 2013-05-17 09:25:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: being gold is usually convinient when you get on a plane with too little overhead room (ie any plane) that way your bags are with you and not either somewhere entirely different or checked
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 747 2013-05-17 09:26:33 <BlueMatt> well, that plus club access on interneational flights
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 763 2013-05-17 09:35:25 <michagogo> Hmm, I see Eligius just mined a block
 764 2013-05-17 09:35:31 <michagogo> At the same time as someone else did...
 765 2013-05-17 09:35:39 <michagogo> Have we forked yet, btw?
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 767 2013-05-17 09:36:26 <kinlo> I'm still convinced we are not going to fork, all the hashing power is already on 0.8
 768 2013-05-17 09:36:39 <kinlo> the 0.7 will just get stuck at a certain point
 769 2013-05-17 09:36:46 <michagogo> kinlo: I don't necessarily mean fork
 770 2013-05-17 09:36:56 <michagogo> I just mean cut off unmodified 0.7
 771 2013-05-17 09:38:07 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 772 2013-05-17 09:41:53 <michagogo> Seems Luke-Jr's block won out
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 782 2013-05-17 09:49:57 <JyZyXEL> when will the fork happen?
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 784 2013-05-17 09:50:58 <kinlo> JyZyXEL: when a block triggers the limits in bdb like last time
 785 2013-05-17 09:50:59 <jaakkos> JyZyXEL: when someone builds a block that changes too much data in the database to trigger the 0.7 bug
 786 2013-05-17 09:51:20 <jaakkos> meh :)
 787 2013-05-17 09:52:33 <JyZyXEL> how hard would it be to purposely trying construct such a block?
 788 2013-05-17 09:52:51 ielo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 789 2013-05-17 09:52:52 <sydna> same as mining a normal block I suppose.
 790 2013-05-17 09:53:12 <jaakkos> it's just a matter of time
 791 2013-05-17 09:53:34 <jaakkos> whenever a miner happens to receive enough transactions.
 792 2013-05-17 09:53:47 <JyZyXEL> so what is the probability that the next block will be that block?
 793 2013-05-17 09:54:26 root2_ is now known as root2
 794 2013-05-17 09:54:58 <JyZyXEL> wait, its only about how many transactions are included in the block?
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 796 2013-05-17 09:55:16 <kadoban_> JyZyXEL: it's probably not possible to determine that. someone could do it on purpose if they wanted i think
 797 2013-05-17 09:55:26 <kadoban_> (re the probability)
 798 2013-05-17 09:55:59 <sydna> it wasn't even the number of transactions that caused the issue, but the form of the many transactions
 799 2013-05-17 09:55:59 <JyZyXEL> well if its only about that then one could purposely split some bitcoins into really small fractions to get lots of transactions in the next block HE mines himself
 800 2013-05-17 09:57:07 <JyZyXEL> what is the megical size limit anyways?
 801 2013-05-17 09:57:59 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 802 2013-05-17 09:59:19 <kadoban_> it's not just a size limit. it's something about the number of changes needed to the underlying bdb database
 803 2013-05-17 09:59:22 <michagogo> JyZyXEL: IIRC Luke-Jr is/was trying to do that
 804 2013-05-17 09:59:57 <JyZyXEL> all the explanations of the problem are really vague
 805 2013-05-17 10:00:46 <jaakkos> JyZyXEL: well not many are interested in the deep details of bdb internals to give exact answers
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 807 2013-05-17 10:01:46 <JyZyXEL> oh you mean BDB
 808 2013-05-17 10:02:11 <JyZyXEL> i was wondering all this time what the heck is bdb
 809 2013-05-17 10:03:14 <michagogo> It's a database
 810 2013-05-17 10:03:24 <michagogo> That 0.7 used and 0.8 doesn't
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 812 2013-05-17 10:03:30 <jaakkos> yes. when bitcoin accepts new blocks and puts them into bdb, bdb needs to take a number of locks from a very limited pool, when it modifies the db. that number grows when the db transaction grows and eventually is too large.
 813 2013-05-17 10:03:38 <JyZyXEL> its written BDB, not bdb
 814 2013-05-17 10:03:54 <lupine> it's OK, people aren't very caser-sensitive
 815 2013-05-17 10:04:13 <randy-waterhouse> lock limit is set at 10,000 on pre-0.7
 816 2013-05-17 10:04:28 <JyZyXEL> i think its important to be case-sensitive
 817 2013-05-17 10:04:44 <kadoban_> why? it's not at all ambiguous as far as i know
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 820 2013-05-17 10:06:32 <JyZyXEL> randy-waterhouse: so the actual problem was default lock limit of BDB?
 821 2013-05-17 10:06:39 <sydna> yes
 822 2013-05-17 10:06:45 <randy-waterhouse> no
 823 2013-05-17 10:06:55 <JyZyXEL> well, perhaps its not a default value :p
 824 2013-05-17 10:07:06 <JyZyXEL> but anyways, 10,000
 825 2013-05-17 10:07:06 <randy-waterhouse> it is more nuanced than that
 826 2013-05-17 10:07:40 <randy-waterhouse> each TX uses approx. 2 locks ... and block size has only loose relation to TX number
 827 2013-05-17 10:08:16 <randy-waterhouse> but not predictable ... so lock limits does not gel with block size so eventually one would clash with the other
 828 2013-05-17 10:08:24 <sydna> like the 100KB TX we saw a few days ago.
 829 2013-05-17 10:08:39 <JyZyXEL> randy-waterhouse: so lock limit was adjusted based on block size?
 830 2013-05-17 10:09:18 <randy-waterhouse> no lock limit was hard coded ... but also configurable by config file if you knew about it ...
 831 2013-05-17 10:10:23 <JyZyXEL> well so then the problem was that static lock limit that was set too low?
 832 2013-05-17 10:10:33 <sydna> yes
 833 2013-05-17 10:10:50 <randy-waterhouse> only if you set the block kByte limit too high ;)
 834 2013-05-17 10:11:28 <ThomasV> ping etotheipi_
 835 2013-05-17 10:11:40 <randy-waterhouse> the hard limit turned oout to be the locks ... not the the data size and that's why it forked
 836 2013-05-17 10:12:07 <sydna> for more fun, blame Slush for minding the death-block
 837 2013-05-17 10:12:11 <sydna> *mining
 838 2013-05-17 10:12:30 <JyZyXEL> how many transactions did it have? :P
 839 2013-05-17 10:12:42 <sydna> uh, I can't even remember
 840 2013-05-17 10:12:46 <randy-waterhouse> it did have an extraordinary number of locks used for its size ... conincidence? maybe....
 841 2013-05-17 10:13:02 <sydna> wonder if anyone still has the block.
 842 2013-05-17 10:13:03 <randy-waterhouse> more than 10k apparently
 843 2013-05-17 10:13:32 <JyZyXEL> so more than 5000 transactions if every one of them uses 2
 844 2013-05-17 10:13:48 <randy-waterhouse> the 2 used per TX is not a hard rule
 845 2013-05-17 10:13:52 <sydna> the block had 1752 TX, 974KB
 846 2013-05-17 10:14:10 <randy-waterhouse> just an approximation from the BDB documentation that gets really fuzzy at that level or arcaneness
 847 2013-05-17 10:14:19 <sydna> https://blockchain.info/block-index/357948/000000000000015c50b165fcdd33556f8b44800c5298943ac70b112df480c023
 848 2013-05-17 10:14:28 <JyZyXEL> looks like its not very accurate approximation at all in this case :p
 849 2013-05-17 10:14:37 <randy-waterhouse> no, not at all
 850 2013-05-17 10:14:37 <JyZyXEL> if 1752 transactions were able to consume more than 10,000 locks
 851 2013-05-17 10:14:42 <BlueMatt> heh, I love our GetMinFee code, its half dead and the other half is uselessly complicated to handle transactions that could never reasonably be created...
 852 2013-05-17 10:15:06 <sydna> there's some very large TX in there, with many many inputs and outputs
 853 2013-05-17 10:15:33 <randy-waterhouse> yeah so apporximately 2 sux in that situation
 854 2013-05-17 10:16:24 <JyZyXEL> what is the new maximum lock value? :p
 855 2013-05-17 10:16:32 <randy-waterhouse> anyway ... onwards and upwards ... I guess we'll now discover what surprises levelDb is going to throw up ... eh;)
 856 2013-05-17 10:16:52 <JyZyXEL> why did no one test to make a huge transaction like that years ago :p
 857 2013-05-17 10:17:04 <randy-waterhouse> beta
 858 2013-05-17 10:17:34 <randy-waterhouse> that's why we are here
 859 2013-05-17 10:17:35 <sydna> JyZyXEL: they thought they had
 860 2013-05-17 10:17:39 <JyZyXEL> like a bunch of worst case test scenarios
 861 2013-05-17 10:17:51 <sydna> in the testnet there's some nutty transactions for that very reason
 862 2013-05-17 10:18:03 <JyZyXEL> apparently not nutty enough :p
 863 2013-05-17 10:18:07 <randy-waterhouse> sydna: i don;t recall anyone testing lock limit maximum ...
 864 2013-05-17 10:18:13 <sydna> ^ exactly
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 866 2013-05-17 10:18:54 <JyZyXEL> randy-waterhouse: wouldn't it come up when testing "how many transactions can we fit into the maximum allowed block size"
 867 2013-05-17 10:19:05 <randy-waterhouse> if anyone wants to go through the source and make a list of all the hard-coded numbers that need testing to see how they function that would be useful
 868 2013-05-17 10:20:03 <randy-waterhouse> JyZyXEL: perhpas but tx number doesn't equate well to lock numbers used
 869 2013-05-17 10:20:47 <JyZyXEL> perhaps its the number of outputs then?
 870 2013-05-17 10:21:17 <randy-waterhouse> no it is the number of space in the DB memory it needs to allocate to do whatever the TX's are doing
 871 2013-05-17 10:21:55 <randy-waterhouse> throw in some multi-sig and other weird TX and suddenly it becomes unpredictable
 872 2013-05-17 10:21:56 <JyZyXEL> oh i see, so one would need to come up with TX's that are really nasty
 873 2013-05-17 10:22:07 <sydna> like the ones a few days ago
 874 2013-05-17 10:22:15 <sydna> they managed to slow down p2pool considerably
 875 2013-05-17 10:22:18 <JyZyXEL> how many inputs and outputs are allowed?
 876 2013-05-17 10:22:37 <randy-waterhouse> pet TX?
 877 2013-05-17 10:22:41 <JyZyXEL> yeah
 878 2013-05-17 10:22:41 <randy-waterhouse> per TX?
 879 2013-05-17 10:22:49 shesek has joined
 880 2013-05-17 10:22:59 <randy-waterhouse> lots?
 881 2013-05-17 10:23:10 <JyZyXEL> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#tx
 882 2013-05-17 10:23:15 <JyZyXEL> perhaps this could answer
 883 2013-05-17 10:23:55 <JyZyXEL> a variable length integer :p
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 885 2013-05-17 10:27:13 <JyZyXEL> i would imagine the cost of doing a transaction of death would be quite high
 886 2013-05-17 10:28:06 <JyZyXEL> or perhaps bitcoind has some artificial limits
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 897 2013-05-17 10:42:14 <michagogo> Wow
 898 2013-05-17 10:42:34 <michagogo> http://pastebin.com/ncFR7Jtb
 899 2013-05-17 10:44:53 ielo has joined
 900 2013-05-17 10:45:16 <randy-waterhouse> michagogo: what's that?
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 902 2013-05-17 10:47:03 <sydna> a.. big TX?
 903 2013-05-17 10:47:40 <sydna> yeah. t
 904 2013-05-17 10:47:49 <sydna> that's the correct battery horse staple spam
 905 2013-05-17 10:47:52 <sydna> https://blockchain.info/tx/0957d8e909374a57395f05f140f55e2332c3114c2e0f6daeb8ec402b90733fbf
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 907 2013-05-17 10:52:00 <michagogo> irb(main):001:0> string=`pastebin -r ncFR7Jtb`
 908 2013-05-17 10:52:09 <michagogo> irb(main):002:0> string.length
 909 2013-05-17 10:52:09 <michagogo> => 18067
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 917 2013-05-17 11:03:47 <JyZyXEL> what happens on 15th of May 2013 that makes it an upgrade deadline?
 918 2013-05-17 11:04:16 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 919 2013-05-17 11:05:10 <evilmichagogo> o_O
 920 2013-05-17 11:05:11 <evilmichagogo> https://blockchain.info/address/15ArtCgi3wmpQAAfYx4riaFmo4prJA4VsK
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 922 2013-05-17 11:05:44 <evilmichagogo> JyZyXEL: 0.8.x nodes are no longer keeping sizes down for 0.7 compatibility
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 924 2013-05-17 11:06:21 <evilmichagogo> JyZyXEL: So unless you upgrade or tweak the BDB max lock setting you'll get cut off eventually
 925 2013-05-17 11:08:05 <JyZyXEL> evilmichagogo: but this whole time anyways old nodes could have produced a 0.7 incompatible block?
 926 2013-05-17 11:08:17 <evilmichagogo> JyZyXEL: Hmm?
 927 2013-05-17 11:08:28 <evilmichagogo> If anyone had been running 0.8.0, yes
 928 2013-05-17 11:08:42 <JyZyXEL> oh yeah, only that one :p
 929 2013-05-17 11:08:45 <evilmichagogo> But the pools shifted to 0.7 when the fork happened
 930 2013-05-17 11:08:55 <evilmichagogo> And then reupgraded to 0.8.1
 931 2013-05-17 11:09:09 <evilmichagogo> Which kept things small until 2 days ago
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 951 2013-05-17 11:29:58 <michagogo> hmm, looks to be some correct horse battery staple spam going to satoshidice: https://blockchain.info/address/1dice9wcMu5hLF4g81u8nioL5mmSHTApw
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 955 2013-05-17 11:34:51 <The_Fly_> http://xkcd.com/936/
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 958 2013-05-17 11:35:20 <sydna> fairly pointless
 959 2013-05-17 11:35:28 <sydna> SD will just reject it
 960 2013-05-17 11:40:49 <The_Fly_> yeah, waste of time
 961 2013-05-17 11:41:11 <sydna> the only thing that spam is achieving is slowing down miners
 962 2013-05-17 11:41:25 <sydna> bitcoind's getblocktemplate is struggling to handle it
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 975 2013-05-17 11:55:06 <randy-waterhouse> hi
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 977 2013-05-17 11:56:48 * sydna glomps randy-waterhouse 
 978 2013-05-17 11:57:20 <randy-waterhouse> what did I do?
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1004 2013-05-17 12:26:59 <Tritonio> Does anyone know how to change the new output limit of 5700 satoshis or whatever it is?
1005 2013-05-17 12:27:27 shesek has joined
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1007 2013-05-17 12:29:08 <sydna> Tritonio: nobody really wants to. why do you want to send dust?
1008 2013-05-17 12:29:35 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1009 2013-05-17 12:29:40 <sydna> Tritonio: sit back and think of how much 5700 satoshi is worth. now realise that the TX fee to send it is many times more.
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1016 2013-05-17 12:30:26 <Tritonio> sydna, because a transaction that has 10 outputs out of which one is dust, is not dust, it is a transaction. Plus I don't agree that there should be hard limit as long as he is paying a fee.
1017 2013-05-17 12:30:44 pizzacat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1018 2013-05-17 12:31:05 <sydna> Tritonio: think of it like this. I give you a book token worth $5. you love that. you go to the book store and find out there's a $500 fee to spend book tokens.
1019 2013-05-17 12:31:11 <Tritonio> I realize what you say. I just don't see why it should be my bussiness to judge which transactions are sane as long as they pay the fee that someone requires to mine them.
1020 2013-05-17 12:31:34 slashroot_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1021 2013-05-17 12:32:30 <Tritonio> Plus, colored coins and other things.
1022 2013-05-17 12:32:52 <sydna> Tritonio: I doubt anyone else really cares. nobody really wants to deal with dust transactions. see the current insane spam from "correct battery horse staple".
1023 2013-05-17 12:32:56 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1024 2013-05-17 12:33:12 <sydna> http://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T
1025 2013-05-17 12:34:10 <Tritonio> sydna, I don't mind being the only one that allows these to pass. I'm not trying to make a change, I just don't want to condone behaviour that judged which fee-paying transactions should be allowed or not.
1026 2013-05-17 12:34:17 Bjander has quit (Client Quit)
1027 2013-05-17 12:35:39 <Tritonio> These are fee-less transactions right? (the horse spam)
1028 2013-05-17 12:35:47 <sydna> mostly
1029 2013-05-17 12:35:49 <sydna> some has fees
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1033 2013-05-17 12:36:24 <Tritonio> In that case I do agree to setting up a fee limit under which transactions don't get relayed. But for a transaction that has a fee, I see no reason to drop it.
1034 2013-05-17 12:37:28 testnode9 has joined
1035 2013-05-17 12:37:32 <Tritonio> IMO this feels like trying to censor what transactions you don't like. Someone is willing to pay for it, you shouldn't examine it, you should care what it is. He is willing to pay as much as others so you have no reason not so service him by realying it.
1036 2013-05-17 12:37:35 <sydna> in this case, it's making the TX so huge that bitcoind gets bogged down trying to make blocks.
1037 2013-05-17 12:37:51 gonffen_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1038 2013-05-17 12:38:19 <Tritonio> I'm not saying it censorship. You can't really have censorship in a P2P network. Everyone owns his computer and can do whatever he wants with it.
1039 2013-05-17 12:38:29 <Tritonio> If he makes it too huge just change the fee requirement rules.
1040 2013-05-17 12:38:35 <sydna> not really much point trying to change my mind, I couldn't really care less about the whole thing
1041 2013-05-17 12:38:43 <Tritonio> Ask for bigger fees in order to get relayed.
1042 2013-05-17 12:39:10 <Tritonio> I am not trying to change your mind. I am just explaining why I want to change this setting, since you asked.
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1046 2013-05-17 12:40:11 <sydna> the main reason people want to change the setting is so that they can keep sending dust from their bitcoin faucet sites. I mainly asked so that I could tear into you about faucets. as you're not, I won't
1047 2013-05-17 12:42:43 <Tritonio> What's wrong with faucets? :-D Not that I like them, I really don't see how those very few coins you get from them will be spendable...
1048 2013-05-17 12:43:08 <Tritonio> Anyway though. Does anyone know how to change this setting?
1049 2013-05-17 12:43:10 <sydna> they just make dust, there's no way of actually ever spending the crap they spit out
1050 2013-05-17 12:43:28 <sydna> sure if you spend a few days you might work up $1 in bitcoin, but you can't spend it
1051 2013-05-17 12:43:38 <sydna> I could go beg on the corner for a few minutes and make more than that
1052 2013-05-17 12:45:31 <nsh> dust is good
1053 2013-05-17 12:45:40 <nsh> dust is demurrage. embrace the dust
1054 2013-05-17 12:45:50 * sydna snorts bitcoin dust off the back of nsh's hand 
1055 2013-05-17 12:45:55 <nsh> ooo yeaaa
1056 2013-05-17 12:46:07 <nsh> now we're partying cryptohard
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1060 2013-05-17 12:47:20 <sydna> if you want hilarity, add that "correct horse battery staple" to bitcoin-qt
1061 2013-05-17 12:47:41 <sydna> completely ruins it
1062 2013-05-17 12:48:09 <nsh> one might be forgiven for suggesting that there is an architectural issue at this stage
1063 2013-05-17 12:48:47 <sydna> it's making mining difficult, it's TX make getblocktemplate take 5s or so
1064 2013-05-17 12:49:08 <sydna> bitcoin-qt won't even run when you have the key in your wallet
1065 2013-05-17 12:49:25 <Tritonio> just increase the minimum fee.
1066 2013-05-17 12:49:35 <sydna> you can't view the address on blockexplorer.com, it makes blockchain.info slow and their API hang
1067 2013-05-17 12:49:37 <Tritonio> (to solve the block size problem I mean)
1068 2013-05-17 12:49:53 <nsh> i think there needs to be an algorithmic entropy management solution
1069 2013-05-17 12:50:13 <sydna> entropy.. management?
1070 2013-05-17 12:50:16 <Tritonio> can someone please tell me how to change that option? :-D
1071 2013-05-17 12:50:32 <nsh> dust represents high levels of disorder in the blockchain
1072 2013-05-17 12:50:45 <nsh> there should be a way to aggregate it without incurring cost
1073 2013-05-17 12:51:04 <sydna> eventually it'll probably be worth enough for people to want to sweep it away
1074 2013-05-17 12:51:11 <nsh> (or at least distributing that cost systemically)
1075 2013-05-17 12:51:16 <sydna> IDEA.
1076 2013-05-17 12:51:37 <nsh> well, when pruning comes into play there will be an incentive for the entire economy to have old dust aggregated
1077 2013-05-17 12:51:37 <sydna> "the bitcoin grinder" - send coins to this address, and they get shredded down to completely useless dust
1078 2013-05-17 12:51:50 <sydna> the dust is then sent to gmaxwell.
1079 2013-05-17 12:51:57 <sydna> gmaxwell loves dust.
1080 2013-05-17 12:52:49 * nsh smiles
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1082 2013-05-17 12:53:21 <sydna> it'd be a good way to ruin somebodies day really
1083 2013-05-17 12:53:34 <nsh> hold on, maybe there's a direct analogy to disk fragmentation
1084 2013-05-17 12:54:22 <sydna> I'm not sure how you'd even spend from a wallet that had been contaminated with dust. bitcoin-qt becomes unresponsive, electrum refuses to import the key, multibit hangs too
1085 2013-05-17 12:54:46 <nsh> A relatively recent technique is delayed allocation in XFS, HFS+[8] and ZFS; the same technique is also called allocate-on-flush in reiser4 and ext4. When the file system is being written to, file system blocks are reserved, but the locations of specific files are not laid down yet. Later, when the file system is forced to flush changes as a result of memory pressure or a transaction commit, the allocator will have much better knowledge of the files' charact
1086 2013-05-17 12:54:46 <nsh> eristics. Most file systems with this approach try to flush files in a single directory contiguously. Assuming that multiple reads from a single directory are common, locality of reference is improved.[9] Reiser4 also orders the layout of files according to the directory hash table, so that when files are being accessed in the natural file system order (as dictated by readdir), they are always read sequentially.[10]
1087 2013-05-17 12:54:54 <nsh> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_fragmentation#Preventing_fragmentation
1088 2013-05-17 12:54:56 <sydna> blockchain.info's web wallet bugs out
1089 2013-05-17 12:55:20 <sydna> nsh: probably not that applicable to bitcoin though
1090 2013-05-17 12:55:37 <nsh> no, but it's good for thought
1091 2013-05-17 12:55:44 <nsh> all grist for the MINDMILL
1092 2013-05-17 12:55:52 <sydna> should have guess that one. armoury hangs too.
1093 2013-05-17 12:56:16 <nsh> well, on the plus side a lot of bitcoinbrains are in geographical proximity this week
1094 2013-05-17 12:56:30 <nsh> that might lead to some kind of critical problem-solving density
1095 2013-05-17 12:56:41 <sydna> one well placed nuke would decimate the bitcoin community
1096 2013-05-17 12:57:27 beethoven8201 has joined
1097 2013-05-17 12:57:47 <nsh> yeah, i'm actively monitoring the HAARP in case they try to use earthquake technology to kill cryptocurrencies
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1099 2013-05-17 12:57:51 <nsh> (fnord)
1100 2013-05-17 12:57:58 <sydna> there's $40 in that damn brain wallet.
1101 2013-05-17 12:58:10 <sydna> I could eat like a king tonight if I could get to it
1102 2013-05-17 12:58:19 <shawn_fessenden> sydna: "there's no way of actually ever spending the crap they spit out". If I'm following this, then you mean collecting dust for some total in a transaction just takes too long. Is that right?
1103 2013-05-17 12:58:41 <sydna> shawn_fessenden: well, no. normally if you collect dust the TX fee will be more than the coins are worth
1104 2013-05-17 12:58:53 <shawn_fessenden> OIC. Thanks.
1105 2013-05-17 12:59:00 <sydna> shawn_fessenden: in this case, the wallet contains so many transactions that it freezes any client you try to spend from
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1107 2013-05-17 12:59:50 <shawn_fessenden> Understood. Ok I was thinking this was a good way to offset TX fee. I see that's not the case. Thank you for splainin.
1108 2013-05-17 12:59:55 gruvfunk has joined
1109 2013-05-17 13:00:30 <sydna> to actually spend from the brain wallet I'm referring to would take something like 1BTC in fees. stupid.
1110 2013-05-17 13:01:33 <sydna> (stupid bitcoin, not stupid shawn_fessenden )
1111 2013-05-17 13:01:58 <shawn_fessenden> :)
1112 2013-05-17 13:03:12 <sydna> having that key in your wallet seems to be nasty too. it was sitting pretty until the last block, then it died again.
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1118 2013-05-17 13:14:45 <warren> I want to implement a new fee-related patch that adds a tiny additional fee penalty if you are sending to an un-compressed key.
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1120 2013-05-17 13:15:06 <sydna> I like this.
1121 2013-05-17 13:15:15 <sydna> so many bitcoin tools don't support them
1122 2013-05-17 13:15:23 <sydna> even Armory doesn't!
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1132 2013-05-17 13:34:32 <BlueMatt> warren: fee? just make it non-standard
1133 2013-05-17 13:35:11 <BlueMatt> bonus: makes sd non-standard
1134 2013-05-17 13:36:25 comi has joined
1135 2013-05-17 13:37:37 <warren> BlueMatt: I like fees
1136 2013-05-17 13:37:50 <sydna> warren: ah, you must be a miner!
1137 2013-05-17 13:37:58 <warren> nope
1138 2013-05-17 13:38:03 <nsh> he's a buffet
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1150 2013-05-17 13:58:54 <hazrd> hey all ;)
1151 2013-05-17 13:59:52 <hazrd> quick question regarding genesis blocks... i've taken the 0.8.1 bitcoin source and removed it's ability to connect to the network (to see how it all works) - removed the entire data directory and started it up
1152 2013-05-17 14:00:10 <hazrd> i get the following error: bool LoadBlockIndex(bool): Assertion `block.GetHash() == hashGenesisBlock' failed.
1153 2013-05-17 14:02:03 <hazrd> main.cpp seems to have code to generate a new genesis block, but it fails and i'm unsure why, since i've changed nothing after mapBlockIndex.empty()
1154 2013-05-17 14:02:16 <hazrd> any pointers?
1155 2013-05-17 14:03:21 jonass has joined
1156 2013-05-17 14:04:42 <michagogo> hazrd: Have you seed testnet-in-a-box?
1157 2013-05-17 14:04:45 <michagogo> seen*
1158 2013-05-17 14:04:56 <hazrd> michagogo, i havn't no
1159 2013-05-17 14:05:17 <hazrd> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
1160 2013-05-17 14:05:18 <hazrd> ta ;)
1161 2013-05-17 14:05:36 <sydna> there's also the real testnet
1162 2013-05-17 14:05:58 <hazrd> sydna, but the real testnet would already have a starting block, no?
1163 2013-05-17 14:06:06 <sydna> indeed
1164 2013-05-17 14:06:11 <michagogo> t-i-a-b does too, IIRC
1165 2013-05-17 14:06:20 <michagogo> I think it comes with a bunch of blocks premined
1166 2013-05-17 14:06:20 <hazrd> damn
1167 2013-05-17 14:06:43 <hazrd> will see if i can remove them and get it working - thank you :)
1168 2013-05-17 14:07:04 <michagogo> Hmm, looks like bc.i's pushtx was updated recently
1169 2013-05-17 14:07:12 <sydna> how so?
1170 2013-05-17 14:07:37 <jonass> im desperately searching the protocol changes for hardfork may 15th. My client always get a message "alert" with info for the hardfork of may15.
1171 2013-05-17 14:08:01 <michagogo> So things like https://blockchain.info/tx/50d93d88610fbb60b413c91f63640c82af4617e64a50576b74789d39711eee11 will fail now
1172 2013-05-17 14:08:17 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1173 2013-05-17 14:08:22 <michagogo> with the message All Outputs Are Very Small you must include a min (50000) satoshi fee
1174 2013-05-17 14:08:34 <michagogo> jonass: It's just the fact that bigger blocks are allowed
1175 2013-05-17 14:08:34 <sydna> neat.
1176 2013-05-17 14:08:44 <michagogo> Because too many BDB locks were being used
1177 2013-05-17 14:08:50 <michagogo> or something
1178 2013-05-17 14:09:00 <sydna> there hasn't been a hard for yet, and probably won't be
1179 2013-05-17 14:09:19 <sydna> michagogo: probably because they were the ones who pushed the spam in the first place
1180 2013-05-17 14:09:44 <jonass> michagogo thanks,? but what causes the client to replay with a "alert"? PROTO_VERSION < X?
1181 2013-05-17 14:10:57 <sydna> jonass: there's a built in alerting system in bitcoin, it can target client versions like that
1182 2013-05-17 14:11:10 <sydna> jonass: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alerts
1183 2013-05-17 14:12:16 zoinky has joined
1184 2013-05-17 14:12:17 <jonass> sydna yes. thanks. I just have no idea what i have to change the my client will work >may 15 (so now).
1185 2013-05-17 14:12:28 <BlueMatt> hazrd: also check out https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2632
1186 2013-05-17 14:12:32 <sydna> jonass: upgrade to the latest 0.8.1 build
1187 2013-05-17 14:12:56 <sydna> jonass: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.1/
1188 2013-05-17 14:13:12 <jonass> sydna i'm working on https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/ so it's not bitcoind
1189 2013-05-17 14:13:34 <sydna> jonass: crap, sorry
1190 2013-05-17 14:13:34 <hazrd> BlueMatt, thank you ;)
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1192 2013-05-17 14:14:13 <jonass> sydna, picocoin crap? is there a moew stable SPV ready C library?
1193 2013-05-17 14:14:19 <jonass> moew=more
1194 2013-05-17 14:14:44 <sydna> jonass: no no, "crap" that I assumed you were a normal user and treated you like an idiot
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1197 2013-05-17 14:14:58 <jonass> sydna, .. no worries. :)
1198 2013-05-17 14:15:53 <BlueMatt> spv clients should be entirely unaffected by may 15th stuff
1199 2013-05-17 14:16:59 <jonass> BlueMatt hmm.. yes should. But while running picocoin and debugging it, i always get alert "GAction required: see http://bitcoin.org/may15.html "?
1200 2013-05-17 14:17:06 <jonass> it might be only the protocol version
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1203 2013-05-17 14:17:51 <michagogo> jonass: What code does your client use to handle alerts?
1204 2013-05-17 14:18:28 <BlueMatt> yea, its just the protocol version
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1206 2013-05-17 14:18:30 <jonass> michagogo i just started impementing alert handling in picocoin and found the alert posted above
1207 2013-05-17 14:18:51 <jonass> BlueMatt okay. let me try
1208 2013-05-17 14:18:52 <michagogo> jonass: AFAIK, the bitcoind behavior is to save and relay any alert it knows about
1209 2013-05-17 14:19:14 <michagogo> But not to display or act on it unless it passes a "does this apply to me?" check
1210 2013-05-17 14:19:50 <michagogo> jonass: Maybe reading https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/alert.cpp will help
1211 2013-05-17 14:19:56 <jonass> michagogo, jgarzik's picocoin misses many implementation (alert's might be low prio compare to the rest). :)
1212 2013-05-17 14:20:08 <jonass> michagogo okay. thanks.
1213 2013-05-17 14:20:19 <jonass> first i'd like to solve resyncing with the network
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1216 2013-05-17 14:20:52 <hazrd> why is 0.8.2 release so urgent?
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1222 2013-05-17 14:27:01 <hazrd> if i understand it correctly, the only major changes are the fees...?
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1227 2013-05-17 14:30:28 <BlueMatt> jonass: yes, anything that passes sig will be relayed, but it has to pass AppliesToMe to be acted on
1228 2013-05-17 14:31:35 <jonass> BlueMatt after changing PROTO_V to 70001 it runs "better" (whatever this means? :) )
1229 2013-05-17 14:32:13 <BlueMatt> protocol 70001 does bloom filtering
1230 2013-05-17 14:32:23 <BlueMatt> so unless that is implemented you cant use proto 70001
1231 2013-05-17 14:32:43 <BlueMatt> (well, I suppose you could if you didnt supply a filter and used the right version msg...)
1232 2013-05-17 14:33:14 <jonass> BlueMatt okay, i suppose jeff did not implement it yet into picocoin? let me investigate...
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1234 2013-05-17 14:33:31 <BlueMatt> no idea
1235 2013-05-17 14:33:42 <jonass> bit i assume < 70001 will not be accepted after may15?
1236 2013-05-17 14:34:10 <sydna> it is after may the 15th.
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1240 2013-05-17 14:34:32 <BlueMatt> no
1241 2013-05-17 14:34:41 <BlueMatt> its not the protocol version that defines what bugs you have..
1242 2013-05-17 14:34:42 <BlueMatt> .
1243 2013-05-17 14:35:07 malaimo has joined
1244 2013-05-17 14:35:42 <jonass> okay. thanks. Sorry for asking basic stuff. I'm new to the net level of bitcoin.
1245 2013-05-17 14:36:07 <hazrd> just to make 100% sure - if i would like to contribute (currently only translations), i fork from bitcoin, do the updates and request a pull?
1246 2013-05-17 14:36:23 <BlueMatt> for translations we use transifex
1247 2013-05-17 14:36:33 <BlueMatt> should be a link somewhere...
1248 2013-05-17 14:37:24 <hazrd> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/bitcoin/ ta ;)
1249 2013-05-17 14:37:59 <BlueMatt> aww, beat me to it
1250 2013-05-17 14:38:26 <hazrd> :)
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1255 2013-05-17 14:43:38 <hazrd> hmm - cloning option is not available
1256 2013-05-17 14:43:41 <hazrd> sucks
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1259 2013-05-17 14:45:12 dansmith_btc has joined
1260 2013-05-17 14:46:24 <dansmith_btc> Hi, how can I access bitcoind's UTXO set? I need to prevent bitcoind from using certain UTXOs. I need that for my colored coins project.
1261 2013-05-17 14:46:45 <keystroke> any word on 0.8.2 final? i have not seen anything new in github for awhile now
1262 2013-05-17 14:46:57 <BlueMatt> keystroke: people are busy with the conference
1263 2013-05-17 14:47:12 <michagogo> BlueMatt: Wow, that was fast
1264 2013-05-17 14:47:35 <michagogo> Or am I just lagging?
1265 2013-05-17 14:47:42 <keystroke> :D thx!
1266 2013-05-17 14:47:58 <keystroke> was thinking they could have a release at the conference if they wanted
1267 2013-05-17 14:48:12 <Scrat> dansmith_btc: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1861
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1272 2013-05-17 14:52:33 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
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1275 2013-05-17 14:55:50 <dansmith_btc> Scrat, wow! it's already implemented, super!
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1277 2013-05-17 14:56:58 <dansmith_btc> Scrat, do you know if I can still access locked outputs with createrawtransaction?
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1280 2013-05-17 14:57:57 <michagogo> dansmith_btc: You can do anything with createrawtransaction, IIRC
1281 2013-05-17 14:58:05 <michagogo> dansmith_btc: Any arbitrary data
1282 2013-05-17 14:58:53 <michagogo> dansmith_btc: If you know the transactions you're pulling from, you can do it even if you don't have the address in your wallet
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1301 2013-05-17 15:16:07 <BlueMatt> anyone have a wild guestimate for smallest byte-count of an encoded signature in the chain today?
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1308 2013-05-17 15:21:27 <dansmith_btc> How does one use lockunspent in debug window? The signature is "lockunspent unlock? [array-of-Objects]" , I do
1309 2013-05-17 15:21:28 <dansmith_btc> lockunspent true  [{"txid":"c753ab448798debaf6c0ee7e96b6f20c8e777c646c7a8187efedc25414d96b95","vout":0}]
1310 2013-05-17 15:22:07 <dansmith_btc> and get Error: Error parsing JSON
1311 2013-05-17 15:23:02 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1312 2013-05-17 15:24:05 <dansmith_btc> michagogo, I was going to lock an utxo and then use is it in createrawtransaction to see how it works
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1335 2013-05-17 15:59:46 <Tritonio> I don't see how I can disable the new "dust" checks. The dust check is based on nMinRelayTxFee which, if I zero it, will also affect the penny flooding checks.
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1339 2013-05-17 16:00:10 <Tritonio> (if there is a way to zero it without recompiling)
1340 2013-05-17 16:00:28 <gonffen> what's the different between dust and a penny flood? :P
1341 2013-05-17 16:00:50 MobPhone has joined
1342 2013-05-17 16:00:57 <ne0futur> Tritonio: why would you disable that ?
1343 2013-05-17 16:02:15 <Tritonio> Oh not again. :-D
1344 2013-05-17 16:03:01 Plinker has joined
1345 2013-05-17 16:03:14 <gonffen> I haven't checked the code but if I recall correctly, the pull request talked about an flag, undocumented in 0.8.2, which lets you change the min relay fee
1346 2013-05-17 16:03:26 <Tritonio> Short version: Because as long as a transaction pays the fee, it should NOT be my job to judge whether this transaction is "good" or "bad". It pays the fee. Raise the fees if you want. Place relay limits based on fees. But dropping txs from people willing to get them relayed even ifthey have to pay for them is just mean IMO.
1347 2013-05-17 16:03:32 <Tritonio> And I don't want to do it.
1348 2013-05-17 16:03:51 OPrime has quit (Quit: OPrime)
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1350 2013-05-17 16:07:26 <ne0futur> Tritonio: perhaps you should build a mining pool for your dust transactions ?
1351 2013-05-17 16:07:45 <Tritonio> why would I do that?
1352 2013-05-17 16:07:51 <ne0futur> your wont force miners to be willing to mine them . . .
1353 2013-05-17 16:07:58 <Tritonio> I know that.
1354 2013-05-17 16:08:05 <Tritonio> That's up to them.
1355 2013-05-17 16:08:10 <Tritonio> What I relay is up to me though.
1356 2013-05-17 16:08:43 <Tritonio> And I will really what I would also decide to mine. And, personally, I would mine anything that has a fee. Dust or not.
1357 2013-05-17 16:08:43 <sipa> Tritonio: when there is no subsidy anymore, you're likely right, but currently miners are paid for what they allow in to the chain while the rest of the network isn;t: it's perfectly reasonable for the rest of the network to set limits to keep itself sane
1358 2013-05-17 16:09:11 <sipa> as it is a cost that everyone needs to carry
1359 2013-05-17 16:09:42 <Tritonio> sipa, I don't mind anyone setting whatever limits they want for their nodes. I just think it doesn't make sense to drop something that has a fee on it.
1360 2013-05-17 16:10:12 <sipa> well they're not paying me a fee, but i have to store it on my disk, index it, maintain it into eternity
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1362 2013-05-17 16:11:05 <Tritonio> OK. Feel free to drop them. :-) I'm not hurting anyone if I want to relay them though. :-)
1363 2013-05-17 16:11:24 <sipa> you're absolutely free to do that
1364 2013-05-17 16:11:38 <Tritonio> Plus the new rule appleis even if a single output is dust. So a transaction that might be useful and also contain dust is considered dust as a whole.
1365 2013-05-17 16:12:16 <Tritonio> sipa, I know I'm free to do it. I wonder though if I'll need to recompile the daemon or just use some parameter to change that behaviour.
1366 2013-05-17 16:12:29 <sipa> you'll need to recompile then
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1368 2013-05-17 16:13:06 <Tritonio> Okey dokey.
1369 2013-05-17 16:13:28 <Tritonio> Thanks for confirming that for me sipa. ;-)
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1375 2013-05-17 16:17:48 <donpdonp> are there any restrictions on the name of a bitcoin account
1376 2013-05-17 16:18:17 [\\\] has joined
1377 2013-05-17 16:18:29 <donpdonp> or is any utf8 string valid?
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1386 2013-05-17 16:29:07 * donpdonp browses the code. looks like != "*" is the only limitation
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1413 2013-05-17 16:46:02 <dansmith_btc> Hello, working with bitcoind: after lockunspent returns true, I issue listlockunspent and an empty list is returned, what gives?
1414 2013-05-17 16:47:18 chax has joined
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1416 2013-05-17 16:49:42 <MC1984_> turing completness is basically a logic systems ability to emulate any other turing complete system given enough time AKA being a general purpose computer, right
1417 2013-05-17 16:49:47 zoinky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1418 2013-05-17 16:50:00 <MC1984_> therefore a bitcoin ASIC is not turing complete right
1419 2013-05-17 16:50:44 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: right.
1420 2013-05-17 16:50:56 <MC1984_> right o
1421 2013-05-17 16:51:10 <MC1984_> d wave still tellin fibs then
1422 2013-05-17 16:51:22 jeewee has joined
1423 2013-05-17 16:51:26 <MC1984_> or implying fibs at least
1424 2013-05-17 16:51:44 <dugo> MC1984_: you could make a turing complete ASIC miner when pressed ..
1425 2013-05-17 16:51:50 nospinzy has quit (Excess Flood)
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1427 2013-05-17 16:52:08 <dugo> MC1984_: to run a display for monitoring etc
1428 2013-05-17 16:52:12 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1429 2013-05-17 16:52:40 <MC1984_> i think if something becomes turing complete then its no longer an ASIC by definition?
1430 2013-05-17 16:53:28 <dugo> depend what you are specific for .. just raw hashing .. or userfriendly fast mining
1431 2013-05-17 16:54:52 <MC1984_> meh
1432 2013-05-17 16:56:27 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1433 2013-05-17 16:56:43 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: no, thats not correct. CPUs are ASICs. asic means that it's not a bag of loose transistors. The 'application' of the part might being a cpu.
1434 2013-05-17 16:57:12 <MC1984_> oh
1435 2013-05-17 17:00:51 <JDuke128> hello , is there any way to get transaction cost thru bitcoin native api ?
1436 2013-05-17 17:02:03 <MC1984_> do real boolean quibts use entanglement?
1437 2013-05-17 17:02:19 <MC1984_> im trying to sound clever on a forum
1438 2013-05-17 17:02:34 <MC1984_> i think they do, thats why its exponentially harder to add each qubit right
1439 2013-05-17 17:02:37 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1440 2013-05-17 17:03:02 <MC1984_> well, im trying to tell some people to calm down about this dwave 2 thing
1441 2013-05-17 17:04:11 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: dwave isn't a quantum computer— it's not even theorized to be able to do all the things that a quantum computer is theorized to be able to do. It's more like a quantum adding machine, at best.
1442 2013-05-17 17:04:19 Guest7078 is now known as ageis
1443 2013-05-17 17:04:32 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: feel free to send them to http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1400
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1449 2013-05-17 17:09:22 <donpdonp> with 'sendfrom' there is only <amount>, how is the tx fee specified?
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1454 2013-05-17 17:11:31 <sipa> donpdonp: it's a setting per kB
1455 2013-05-17 17:11:42 <donpdonp> sipa: kB?
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1459 2013-05-17 17:12:32 <sipa> kilobyte
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1461 2013-05-17 17:12:53 <donpdonp> oh the fee is specified in units of btc per kilobyte?
1462 2013-05-17 17:12:54 <sipa> -paytxfee afaik
1463 2013-05-17 17:12:59 <sipa> indeed
1464 2013-05-17 17:13:21 zz_highPriestLOL is now known as highPriestLOL
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1468 2013-05-17 17:13:37 <donpdonp> ok, i dont see a json rpc call to specify the fee. i wonder if its only set with command line switches.
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1471 2013-05-17 17:16:46 <gmaxwell> donpdonp: settxfee
1472 2013-05-17 17:17:03 <donpdonp> gmaxwell: doh, right in front of me. thx!
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1476 2013-05-17 17:19:55 <MC1984_> it doesnt even use superpositions, just the tunnel effect
1477 2013-05-17 17:21:10 <owowo> it's a quantum computer and a quantum monte carlo machine, depending on who's watching it :P
1478 2013-05-17 17:21:48 <owowo> and when nobody is watching, there is just the possibility of it being there
1479 2013-05-17 17:21:58 <MC1984_> theyre also claiming that QC destroys any encryption :/
1480 2013-05-17 17:22:02 <Cusipzzz> quantum miners will be epic.
1481 2013-05-17 17:23:24 DBordello has quit (Excess Flood)
1482 2013-05-17 17:23:26 <owowo> epic in power consumption
1483 2013-05-17 17:23:45 <owowo> they are claiming a lot, last time I read about it they claimed that bank where keen on it because they want to compute "monte carlo" on it
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1486 2013-05-17 17:28:30 <dansmith_btc> it seems like lockunspent returns "true" even for non-existent txids ! Bug?
1487 2013-05-17 17:29:01 highPriestLOL is now known as zz_highPriestLOL
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1491 2013-05-17 17:34:14 <MC1984_> any conference livestreams?
1492 2013-05-17 17:35:02 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: conference hasn't begun yet.
1493 2013-05-17 17:35:31 <owowo> will there be some? livestrams
1494 2013-05-17 17:36:19 suporte85 has joined
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1499 2013-05-17 17:41:07 <nospinzy> what confrence? is the bitcoin central bankers speaking?
1500 2013-05-17 17:41:13 nsillik has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1501 2013-05-17 17:41:13 nsillik_ is now known as nsillik
1502 2013-05-17 17:41:31 <MC1984_> apparently i have a problem with explaining things without sounding like a didactic prick
1503 2013-05-17 17:41:38 <MC1984_> thats probably true
1504 2013-05-17 17:42:41 <MC1984_> but then i already know that vry often its better to let people be wrong about things for the sake of social harmony
1505 2013-05-17 17:42:55 <MC1984_> i dont have to like it though
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1507 2013-05-17 17:43:20 <nospinzy> what are you talking about
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1509 2013-05-17 17:43:46 <MC1984_> nothing important, really
1510 2013-05-17 17:44:01 <MC1984_> tying to exlplain quantum stuff to people on a forum
1511 2013-05-17 17:44:07 <owowo> ya, don't be a missionary, let them believe in their religion ;o)
1512 2013-05-17 17:44:36 <nospinzy> explain how physics disproves creationism
1513 2013-05-17 17:44:50 <MC1984_> na its not about religion
1514 2013-05-17 17:44:58 <MC1984_> even i wouldnt argue the toss about that
1515 2013-05-17 17:45:21 <nospinzy> yea you are a transcendent human
1516 2013-05-17 17:45:28 <nospinzy> to trivial for you to engage in
1517 2013-05-17 17:45:47 <nospinzy> i wish i could be as superior as you are
1518 2013-05-17 17:46:21 <s4m20> exit
1519 2013-05-17 17:46:29 <s4m20> oops sorry :P
1520 2013-05-17 17:46:31 s4m20 has quit (Quit: leaving)
1521 2013-05-17 17:46:38 <owowo> lol
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1524 2013-05-17 17:50:35 <MC1984_> lolwut
1525 2013-05-17 17:50:36 <nospinzy> MC1984 will quantum tunneling happen if we start using carbon instead of silicon
1526 2013-05-17 17:50:44 suporte85 has quit (Quit: Saindo)
1527 2013-05-17 17:51:04 <MC1984_> i dunno. i thought it already did with electromigration
1528 2013-05-17 17:51:14 <nospinzy> Why dont you know
1529 2013-05-17 17:51:31 <MC1984_> becaus ei am not a fucking font on endless knowledge
1530 2013-05-17 17:51:33 <nospinzy> i hate trying to explain things to people
1531 2013-05-17 17:51:46 <helo> nospinzy: why is that?
1532 2013-05-17 17:51:47 <nospinzy> i would explain the answer but your wouldnt understand
1533 2013-05-17 17:51:54 <helo> >.>
1534 2013-05-17 17:52:16 <nospinzy> its just the way genetics works, sorry its not my fault
1535 2013-05-17 17:52:24 <MC1984_> i know mainly enough to bluff my way through a conversation on a great range of topics
1536 2013-05-17 17:52:41 tonikt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1537 2013-05-17 17:52:53 <nospinzy> yea thats what liberal arts majors have to do in order to keep their ego at a viable level
1538 2013-05-17 17:53:00 <nospinzy> i know how it works
1539 2013-05-17 17:53:20 <MC1984_> like i bluffed my way through 10 minutes talking with a guy from CERN at a festival stall last year
1540 2013-05-17 17:53:53 <nospinzy> only a few people actually accomplish things in the free markets, its like being a virgin.
1541 2013-05-17 17:54:02 tumdum_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
1542 2013-05-17 17:54:10 <nospinzy> o wow thats impressive, i know am inferior to you again
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1544 2013-05-17 17:54:17 <MC1984_> u wot m8
1545 2013-05-17 17:54:18 <nospinzy> i must come up with some bullshit to impress apon you
1546 2013-05-17 17:54:44 <nospinzy> If i was at cern i would try and learn from them
1547 2013-05-17 17:54:52 <nospinzy> because i accomplished things in the freemarket already
1548 2013-05-17 17:54:56 zz_highPriestLOL is now known as highPriestLOL
1549 2013-05-17 17:55:20 <MC1984_> no it was just a display stand
1550 2013-05-17 17:55:30 <MC1984_> they had a plastic cutout sectoin of the LHC
1551 2013-05-17 17:55:32 <MC1984_> it was cool
1552 2013-05-17 17:55:35 <nospinzy> or mabey if i had a reason to be a cern other then bloviation, i would contribute
1553 2013-05-17 17:55:36 <MC1984_> i got a free poster
1554 2013-05-17 17:55:47 <nospinzy> o they have tours sry
1555 2013-05-17 17:55:56 <owowo> have you met a black hole? ;)
1556 2013-05-17 17:56:00 <nospinzy> i thought you somehow forced yourway into it
1557 2013-05-17 17:56:12 <nospinzy> blackhole is a racist term
1558 2013-05-17 17:56:21 <nospinzy> dont ever use it again
1559 2013-05-17 17:56:37 <nospinzy> why does everything have to be black when its related to negative things
1560 2013-05-17 17:56:38 <owowo> ok, an afro american hole?
1561 2013-05-17 17:56:47 <nospinzy> o now its a joke?
1562 2013-05-17 17:57:45 <nospinzy> why not call its a coloredhole, so we can pretend like we are in the 60's
1563 2013-05-17 17:57:48 <owowo> life is a joke don't you know, and death is the final laughter. :P
1564 2013-05-17 17:58:03 saivann has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1565 2013-05-17 17:58:27 <MC1984_> im payng for my brother to fly to geneva with school this year though, perhaps i can send a list of questions along in order to gain knowlege that i may become even more of a know it all
1566 2013-05-17 17:58:42 <nospinzy> you cant afford that
1567 2013-05-17 17:59:03 <MC1984_> its about £300 all in, not bad
1568 2013-05-17 17:59:05 TD has joined
1569 2013-05-17 17:59:09 <TD> good morning
1570 2013-05-17 17:59:11 <jercos> Nothing like a little topical, respectful chat.
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1572 2013-05-17 17:59:35 <Cusipzzz> good morning TD
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1599 2013-05-17 18:21:18 <gmaxwell> Woot: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/eff-will-accept-bitcoins-support-digital-liberty
1600 2013-05-17 18:21:40 highPriestLOL is now known as zz_highPriestLOL
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1602 2013-05-17 18:22:46 <donpdonp> yea!
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1604 2013-05-17 18:23:29 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: took long enough
1605 2013-05-17 18:23:41 <jaromil> lol they did, then they didn't, now they do.
1606 2013-05-17 18:23:53 <BlueMatt> though ofc I understand why they stopped at the time
1607 2013-05-17 18:24:16 <gmaxwell> Yea, I thought it wasn't unreasonable though it was poorly handled.
1608 2013-05-17 18:24:28 NxTitle is now known as OffThatNick
1609 2013-05-17 18:24:29 <jaromil> meh. wimpy enough for not deserving my respect on that one. they don't even to hire lawyers. but well...
1610 2013-05-17 18:24:52 <jaromil> they don't need more lawyers anyway. </rant>
1611 2013-05-17 18:24:58 OffThatNick is now known as NxTitle
1612 2013-05-17 18:25:40 <owowo> wooohooo! +21 for EFF
1613 2013-05-17 18:26:03 * jaromil facepalm
1614 2013-05-17 18:26:41 <jaromil> anyway. some days ago i was exploring blockchains for some popular projects out there
1615 2013-05-17 18:26:51 <jaromil> and guys. bitcoin donations are seriously not happening
1616 2013-05-17 18:27:05 <jaromil> Gimp had 6 bitcoins donated in 2 years or so
1617 2013-05-17 18:27:15 <jaromil> just for an example
1618 2013-05-17 18:27:33 <JDuke128> hi , can i use my friend's blockchain file ? is it same for all pcs ?
1619 2013-05-17 18:27:35 Tritonio has joined
1620 2013-05-17 18:28:27 <gmaxwell> jaromil: as a random example, Wikimedia NYC has had 118.3 BTC donated.
1621 2013-05-17 18:28:34 <pZombie> when doing a transaction, will there be only the last mined block my transaction would try to get into, or could there be more than one block at the time of the transaction it would try to get into?
1622 2013-05-17 18:28:50 <jaromil> gmaxwell: ACK. that's already something. but then NYC has the highest media I guess
1623 2013-05-17 18:29:07 <jaromil> it would be interesting to make a round up on that and call for some good sentiments in the community
1624 2013-05-17 18:29:08 <gmaxwell> FSF has had 837.51 BTC donated.
1625 2013-05-17 18:29:11 <jaromil> I mean, philantropy
1626 2013-05-17 18:29:15 <owowo> JDuke128: yes, you can,
1627 2013-05-17 18:29:44 sturles_ is now known as sturles
1628 2013-05-17 18:29:44 <jaromil> FSF has supported bitcoin since the first day, not endorsing, but RMS is positive
1629 2013-05-17 18:30:01 <owowo> JDuke128: just use your own wallte.dat unless you friend is willing to give you his coins.
1630 2013-05-17 18:30:01 <jaromil> I've talked with him about bitcoins back in... 2011 was it? yep
1631 2013-05-17 18:30:06 sturles has quit (Changing host)
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1633 2013-05-17 18:30:13 <jaromil> in a car ride. he was overly positive and now mentions it in speeches
1634 2013-05-17 18:30:14 <JDuke128> okay
1635 2013-05-17 18:30:19 <gmaxwell> random trivia, the FSF's first bitcoin donation was me sending 0.01 BTC to test their system.
1636 2013-05-17 18:30:19 <jaromil> so FSF deserves that for sure
1637 2013-05-17 18:30:20 <sipa> jaromil: cool
1638 2013-05-17 18:30:25 <JDuke128> peerGroup.downloadBlockChain() <= my code hangs here. why ?
1639 2013-05-17 18:30:35 aadce520e20c2899 has joined
1640 2013-05-17 18:30:36 <JDuke128> why block chain download may hang for ?
1641 2013-05-17 18:31:00 <jaromil> no doubts and since the beginning
1642 2013-05-17 18:31:01 <sipa> JDuke128: it is a synchronous call, as TD explained to you already, it only returns when it has downloaded the chain
1643 2013-05-17 18:31:04 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1644 2013-05-17 18:31:06 <pZombie> in other words.. are there blocks which are not filled completely yet, when the next block is found already?
1645 2013-05-17 18:31:15 <JDuke128> i know but
1646 2013-05-17 18:31:16 <JDuke128> http://pastie.org/7921769
1647 2013-05-17 18:31:24 <JDuke128> it doesn't make any download seems like
1648 2013-05-17 18:31:27 <JDuke128> only code hangs
1649 2013-05-17 18:31:42 <sipa> jaromil: i talked with him at the london conference
1650 2013-05-17 18:31:44 <TD> you would have to debug that yourself
1651 2013-05-17 18:32:06 <JDuke128> i don't think its debuggable I'm using binary bitcoinj jar
1652 2013-05-17 18:32:44 <JDuke128> downloading block chain maybe its hard to find downloadable client ?
1653 2013-05-17 18:32:54 <JDuke128> searching for peer download ?
1654 2013-05-17 18:33:00 <JDuke128> thats why it can hang for ?
1655 2013-05-17 18:34:00 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
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1660 2013-05-17 18:36:13 <pZombie> gmaxwell is there a formula which allows you to compute the transaction fees imposed by the client when getting a lot of small transactions from p2pool, which includes number of confirmations of coins, along with values of all microtransactions included in the transaction?
1661 2013-05-17 18:36:35 <pZombie> and is there a way to somehow combine the microtransactions by sending them to yourself without any fees involved?
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1710 2013-05-17 19:39:38 <warren> Anyone can explain gitian's gbuild:
1711 2013-05-17 19:39:39 <warren>     -c, --commit PAIRS               comma separated list of DIRECTORY=COMMIT pairs
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1720 2013-05-17 19:55:29 thisisengland86 has joined
1721 2013-05-17 19:55:30 <thisisengland86> selling for pp or ukbt
1722 2013-05-17 19:56:29 r0sc0e has joined
1723 2013-05-17 19:56:53 PrimeStunna has joined
1724 2013-05-17 19:56:59 <PrimeStunna> hey
1725 2013-05-17 19:57:06 <PrimeStunna> whenever I try to send btc with my block chain wallet
1726 2013-05-17 19:57:12 <PrimeStunna> it says "an outpoint is already spent"
1727 2013-05-17 19:57:20 <PrimeStunna> any idea how to fix this
1728 2013-05-17 19:57:24 <PrimeStunna> have had this issue for 24hrs
1729 2013-05-17 19:57:34 <PrimeStunna> and am unablee to send btc
1730 2013-05-17 19:58:30 luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr
1731 2013-05-17 19:58:35 <PrimeStunna> if anyone can help me fix this I will pay them
1732 2013-05-17 19:58:47 <thisisengland86> PrimeStunna pm'd u
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1736 2013-05-17 20:05:48 <Luke-Jr> warren: looks straightforward to me
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1739 2013-05-17 20:13:00 <warren> Luke-Jr: I got it work once last night, but now I can't figure out how it worked
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1759 2013-05-17 20:39:50 <petertodd> Also, thoughts on keepbitcoinfree.org content?
1760 2013-05-17 20:41:06 <warren> petertodd: who made the video?
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1763 2013-05-17 20:42:33 <owowo> I like that "Scalability and Decentralization" part, because when I started bitcoining I wondered why there are pools and not a p2p mining system.
1764 2013-05-17 20:42:56 <gmaxwell> petertodd: to whatever extent you thought the video needed to regrettably oversimplify things in order to be comprehensible you should make a concerted effort to have the page correct it.
1765 2013-05-17 20:43:02 <gmaxwell> owowo: there is a p2p mining system.
1766 2013-05-17 20:43:30 <gmaxwell> and probably would only be p2p mining if it had came first. alas.... decenteralized is complicated and has costs.
1767 2013-05-17 20:44:19 <warren> petertodd: the "large and powerful pool" smashing the little guy should be more scary looking.  the power of imagery. =)
1768 2013-05-17 20:44:35 The_Fly_ is now known as The_Fly
1769 2013-05-17 20:45:04 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I'm not convinced if p2p mining was first that pooled mining wouldn't exist...
1770 2013-05-17 20:45:41 <gmaxwell> kinlo: I think there would likely be lots of forks and variations on p2p.
1771 2013-05-17 20:45:44 <owowo> I know p2pool. I mean why pool are preferred over p2p.
1772 2013-05-17 20:45:53 <kinlo> probably
1773 2013-05-17 20:46:02 <kinlo> it would be nice to see multiple p2p pools
1774 2013-05-17 20:46:10 DaQatz has joined
1775 2013-05-17 20:46:12 <kinlo> the difficulty is way too high for small miners now
1776 2013-05-17 20:46:17 <petertodd> warren: stonecanoe.ca
1777 2013-05-17 20:46:32 <warren> kinlo: the current p2p mining implementation has issus blocking wider deployment
1778 2013-05-17 20:46:41 <warren> issues*
1779 2013-05-17 20:46:45 <petertodd> warren: yeah, I want more stuff on that made, FWIW it's on github so any corrections, pull-req
1780 2013-05-17 20:46:45 <kinlo> I know :)
1781 2013-05-17 20:47:03 <warren> petertodd: I enjoy the video.
1782 2013-05-17 20:47:09 <warren> pretty darn effective
1783 2013-05-17 20:47:35 <petertodd> warren: ha, well, stonecanoe keeps avoiding talking about billing, so I think they really want to get involved more in the future, and more work by them
1784 2013-05-17 20:48:13 <petertodd> warren: the producer of the video is a long-term bitcoin user/miner
1785 2013-05-17 20:48:22 <petertodd> warren: thanks!
1786 2013-05-17 20:49:15 Gnaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1787 2013-05-17 20:50:02 <warren> I agree generally with the text, but if you want to convince people, you need less text. more shiny.
1788 2013-05-17 20:50:31 <petertodd> warren: yup, those drawings on keepbitcoinfree are the first I've done... not a good thing
1789 2013-05-17 20:51:04 <[7]> is there a way to allow spending arbitrary amounts from that "empty string" account in bitcoind? That used to work at some point I think...
1790 2013-05-17 20:51:17 <gmaxwell> [7]: thats account ""
1791 2013-05-17 20:51:20 <warren> Is that the same jdillon that was going off on trolltalk attacking gavin about the dust thing?
1792 2013-05-17 20:51:34 <gmaxwell> [7]: sendtoaddress pulls from it, or you can sendfrom from ""
1793 2013-05-17 20:52:09 <petertodd> warren: yup, same one
1794 2013-05-17 20:52:31 <petertodd> warren: although keep in mind, jdillon was in favor of the patch, against not having the wider discussion first
1795 2013-05-17 20:52:47 <petertodd> warren: subtle difference from how people usually preceive what he did there
1796 2013-05-17 20:53:18 <[7]> gmaxwell: yeah, but can I somehow get rid of those account balance checks, allowing me to drive account balances negative?
1797 2013-05-17 20:53:46 <[7]> I'd like to use those accounts more in an "accounting" sense, not for customer accounts or anything. Just to keep track of which money came from where...
1798 2013-05-17 20:54:07 <gmaxwell> yea, you can comment out the tests... I also found the negative checks kinda unwelcome.
1799 2013-05-17 20:54:34 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: p2p != decentralized
1800 2013-05-17 20:55:01 <Luke-Jr> p2p provides little benefit over decentralized, and much higher costs
1801 2013-05-17 20:55:05 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: I'm not up to that discussion again :/
1802 2013-05-17 20:55:06 <[7]> but there's no way without patching it to at least allow them from that default empty string account? I think that a year ago or so that worked...
1803 2013-05-17 20:55:29 <gmaxwell> [7]: the default account can go negative still.
1804 2013-05-17 20:55:45 <gmaxwell> maybe sendfrom doesn't allow it? but sendtoaddress does.
1805 2013-05-17 20:55:53 <[7]> I was trying to use sendmany
1806 2013-05-17 20:56:18 <gmaxwell> $ ./bitcoind getbalance ""
1807 2013-05-17 20:56:19 <gmaxwell> -6...
1808 2013-05-17 20:56:38 <[7]> maybe a leftover from when it still worked? ;)
1809 2013-05-17 20:57:41 <gmaxwell> well if it were made consistent it would become impossible to spend all your funds in one txn once you've used accounts some.
1810 2013-05-17 20:58:19 <gmaxwell> [7]: I wouldn't be shocked if sendmany enforced it.
1811 2013-05-17 20:58:22 mrooke has joined
1812 2013-05-17 20:58:44 <[7]> getbalance returns 50.0 for me, getbalance "" returns 0.0, sendmany '' '{"some_addr": 20}' 1 'some_comment' results in {"code":-6,"message":"Account has insufficient funds"}
1813 2013-05-17 21:03:18 koshii has joined
1814 2013-05-17 21:05:16 <koshii> So who's in San Jose already?
1815 2013-05-17 21:06:06 cyphase_mobile2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1816 2013-05-17 21:06:17 <gmaxwell> koshii: everyone
1817 2013-05-17 21:06:35 <koshii> :)
1818 2013-05-17 21:06:43 <koshii> Where's everyone hanging out?
1819 2013-05-17 21:07:52 nimdAHK has joined
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1821 2013-05-17 21:07:54 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
1822 2013-05-17 21:07:54 <koshii> A secret sunroof somewhere, no doubt.
1823 2013-05-17 21:08:06 <owowo> koshii:  in san jose
1824 2013-05-17 21:08:20 <koshii> owowo: !
1825 2013-05-17 21:10:04 icellan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1826 2013-05-17 21:10:36 <mrooke> Are there going to be any live feeds of talks/symposia?
1827 2013-05-17 21:10:49 <mrooke> I suppose I could just google that...
1828 2013-05-17 21:11:51 normanrichards has joined
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1830 2013-05-17 21:17:53 <[7]> fyi, in case that didn't get noticed here already: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/eff-will-accept-bitcoins-support-digital-liberty
1831 2013-05-17 21:18:05 <donpdonp> mrooke: the sites says they'll be recorded but ive found nothing about a livestream
1832 2013-05-17 21:18:37 <koshii> Whoa
1833 2013-05-17 21:19:35 CaptainBlaze has left ()
1834 2013-05-17 21:19:57 <MC1984_> EFF taking bitcoins again? hmm dont like that
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1838 2013-05-17 21:22:21 <mollison> MC1984_: there is a need for a "new" EFF that actually defends individual rights in the technology realm instead of attacking them
1839 2013-05-17 21:22:48 <MC1984_> i dont know about that
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1844 2013-05-17 21:26:27 <warren> Luke-Jr: are you familiar with what was formerly known as "getworkex"?
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1846 2013-05-17 21:29:47 <Scrat> any videos from san jose?
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1861 2013-05-17 21:44:08 <BCB> Scrat, what are you looking for
1862 2013-05-17 21:47:15 <Scrat> BCB: videos of talks
1863 2013-05-17 21:47:34 <BCB> the foundation is taping them
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1868 2013-05-17 21:54:40 <TD> Scrat: it didn't start yet
1869 2013-05-17 21:54:42 <TD> so there are no videos
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1873 2013-05-17 21:58:03 <Scrat> TD: oh yeah I misread this "Next up was Mike Hearn from Google and Bennett Hoffman, Co-founder and CTO of Buttercoin. Their discussion was centered on the infrastructure and technical aspects of Bitcoin." apparently that was yesterday
1874 2013-05-17 21:58:44 <TD> indeed
1875 2013-05-17 21:58:49 <TD> that was last night
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1878 2013-05-17 22:00:13 <Scrat> but that's relevant too, do you know if anyone was filming?
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1885 2013-05-17 22:06:20 <TD> Scrat: i think they were. but i don't know for sure.
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1947 2013-05-17 23:21:51 <Kinnard> Where is the blockchain stored? In the datadir? What files specifically? besides blk001.dat
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1951 2013-05-17 23:22:55 <sipa> Kinnard: see doc/files.txt
1952 2013-05-17 23:23:18 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hello
1953 2013-05-17 23:23:33 <sipa> hi
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1956 2013-05-17 23:25:34 <Kinnard> @sipa odd, don't have that file
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1958 2013-05-17 23:25:56 <phantomcircuit> Kinnard, windows or linux
1959 2013-05-17 23:26:09 <phantomcircuit> or god forbid os x
1960 2013-05-17 23:26:28 <Kinnard> OSX
1961 2013-05-17 23:26:39 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/files.txt
1962 2013-05-17 23:26:59 <phantomcircuit> im that case i have no idea
1963 2013-05-17 23:27:02 <phantomcircuit> in*
1964 2013-05-17 23:27:56 <Kinnard> @sipa Thanks
1965 2013-05-17 23:28:05 sark has quit (!~sark@178.239.62.136|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1966 2013-05-17 23:28:11 <Kinnard> What's 'block undo data' ?
1967 2013-05-17 23:28:36 <sipa> it's data necessary to 'roll back' the effects of a block on the chainstate
1968 2013-05-17 23:28:47 <sipa> it's only necessary for reorganisations
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1970 2013-05-17 23:30:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, did i see you mention something about why resendwallettransactions would be so slow?
1971 2013-05-17 23:30:57 Diapolis has joined
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1973 2013-05-17 23:35:05 <Kinnard> @sipa Like if the client finds a new longer chain
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1976 2013-05-17 23:39:44 <sipa> phantomcircuit: yes
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1980 2013-05-17 23:41:43 <phantomcircuit> sipa, what was it?
1981 2013-05-17 23:42:22 <phantomcircuit> sorry my logs just have the line where you said phantomcircuit
1982 2013-05-17 23:42:22 <sipa> i'm not sure actually, i didn't test
1983 2013-05-17 23:42:43 <sipa> but FindBlockByheight is an O(n) operation, and it's called from a few places
1984 2013-05-17 23:42:47 <sipa> so it may be related
1985 2013-05-17 23:43:13 <sipa> feel free to test whether #2644 improves it
1986 2013-05-17 23:43:18 <sipa> it may not be related at all
1987 2013-05-17 23:44:29 <phantomcircuit> oh nvm the problem is obvious
1988 2013-05-17 23:44:36 <phantomcircuit> BOOST_FOREACH(PAIRTYPE(const uint256, CWalletTx)& item, mapWallet)
1989 2013-05-17 23:44:44 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1991 2013-05-17 23:44:54 <phantomcircuit> there's tens of thousands of transactions in this wallet
1992 2013-05-17 23:45:15 <sipa> iterating over a million transactions shouldn't even take a second
1993 2013-05-17 23:45:22 <sipa> it's what you do with them :)
1994 2013-05-17 23:45:33 guruvan has joined
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1996 2013-05-17 23:46:54 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm
1997 2013-05-17 23:47:43 <phantomcircuit> hehe listening to the coinbase guy on ftl
1998 2013-05-17 23:48:06 <phantomcircuit> they're site is so horribly broken it isn't even funny
1999 2013-05-17 23:49:03 <Scrat> their
2000 2013-05-17 23:49:16 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
2001 2013-05-17 23:49:39 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, forgive me i've had too much coffee today
2002 2013-05-17 23:49:52 <Scrat> you're there too?
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2005 2013-05-17 23:50:05 <phantomcircuit> Scrat, lol no
2006 2013-05-17 23:50:20 <phantomcircuit> due to current and pending litigation there is no way im going to be there
2007 2013-05-17 23:50:26 <phantomcircuit> hint mtgox isn't there either
2008 2013-05-17 23:51:07 <phantomcircuit> rofl
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2010 2013-05-17 23:54:14 <phantomcircuit> hmm
2011 2013-05-17 23:55:07 <phantomcircuit> sipa, in the common case where the transaction has been sent each iteration should be O(log n)
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2014 2013-05-17 23:56:24 <phantomcircuit> however if they haven't been then it calls GetDepthInMainChain for each of the previous transactions and the relayed transaction
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2016 2013-05-17 23:56:46 <phantomcircuit> im betting i have some stuck transaction with a ridiculous number of inputs
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