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   7 2013-05-23 00:02:51 <gmaxwell> It looks like I can reliably reproduce that pthread assert on shutdown.
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  17 2013-05-23 00:07:04 <nsh> gmaxwell, cause?
  18 2013-05-23 00:07:09 <nsh> or conditions
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  20 2013-05-23 00:08:42 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, do any of the core devs build on os x?
  21 2013-05-23 00:08:46 <phantomcircuit> or rather
  22 2013-05-23 00:08:49 <sipa> he does
  23 2013-05-23 00:08:51 <phantomcircuit> oh
  24 2013-05-23 00:08:53 <phantomcircuit> ok then
  25 2013-05-23 00:08:58 <phantomcircuit> sipa, anybody else
  26 2013-05-23 00:09:06 <mrkent> Who's a good web dev freelancer that can work full time?
  27 2013-05-23 00:09:30 <SteveDekorte> mrkent: what do you need done?
  28 2013-05-23 00:09:31 <gmaxwell> nsh: starting bitcoind on master and running getblocktemplate in a while true loop for a bit then shutting down appears sufficient.
  29 2013-05-23 00:10:10 <mrkent> SteveDekorte, I'm thinking bitcoin needs a binary exchange
  30 2013-05-23 00:10:12 <gmaxwell> I haven't looked further. Mostly I just have a bunch of abuse scripts running right now trying to trigger any bugs in the GBT changes that just went in. I'm not actually paying it much attention.
  31 2013-05-23 00:10:46 <mrkent> current options of bitbet and betsofbitcoin are not very good ways to make bets
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  33 2013-05-23 00:11:17 <sipa> what is a binary exchange?
  34 2013-05-23 00:11:27 <SteveDekorte> mrkent: I see, that sounds interesting - can you pay $200/hour?
  35 2013-05-23 00:11:31 <mrkent> sipa, like intrade
  36 2013-05-23 00:11:43 <phantomcircuit> mrkent, iirc there is a binary options exchange
  37 2013-05-23 00:11:45 <mrkent> SteveDekorte, that depends on how fast you work I suppose
  38 2013-05-23 00:12:05 <phantomcircuit> cant remember who it is though
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  40 2013-05-23 00:12:22 <SteveDekorte> mrkent: what is your budget size?
  41 2013-05-23 00:12:27 <mrkent> phantomcircuit, options on price of btc?
  42 2013-05-23 00:12:41 <phantomcircuit> it's something 500
  43 2013-05-23 00:13:30 <mrkent> SteveDekorte, budget is not huge
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  45 2013-05-23 00:13:38 <phantomcircuit> mrkent, plus500.com
  46 2013-05-23 00:13:50 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea who they are so this isn't an endorsement
  47 2013-05-23 00:13:51 <phantomcircuit> etc etc
  48 2013-05-23 00:14:18 <mrkent> phantomcircuit, not available in the US
  49 2013-05-23 00:14:28 <phantomcircuit> not surprising
  50 2013-05-23 00:16:18 <SteveDekorte> mrkent: if it's under $100K then I'd suggest a local CS student
  51 2013-05-23 00:16:40 <mrkent> SteveDekorte, it's much less than 100k
  52 2013-05-23 00:17:18 <mrkent> although I suppose once a working site is up, it'll hopefully generate some revenue
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  55 2013-05-23 00:18:58 <mrkent> SteveDekorte, your prices are high like the macbook you use, heh
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  94 2013-05-23 01:30:05 <The_Fly> mrkent:
  95 2013-05-23 01:30:09 <The_Fly> ->
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 103 2013-05-23 01:44:21 <mrkent> The_Fly, what?
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 119 2013-05-23 01:55:18 <foamy> hi
 120 2013-05-23 01:55:54 px has joined
 121 2013-05-23 01:55:55 <foamy> im trying to mine with guiminer and bitcoinqt (just to test some stuff with the blockchain) but when i start mining it says difficulty 1 hashes 0
 122 2013-05-23 01:56:04 <foamy> that doesnt sound right...
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 131 2013-05-23 02:10:25 <SomeoneWeird> foamy, has your bitcoinqt sync'd?
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 133 2013-05-23 02:14:02 <foamy> yes
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 136 2013-05-23 02:21:22 <foamy> ok i reset some options
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 140 2013-05-23 02:21:33 <foamy> and now the number of hashes is going up
 141 2013-05-23 02:21:37 <foamy> but its still saying difficulty 1
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 269 2013-05-23 04:48:31 <_maniac_> Hi. A question about pooled mining: why miner can't check work he found to see if it passes difficulty by himself?
 270 2013-05-23 04:49:11 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 271 2013-05-23 04:49:11 sensorii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 272 2013-05-23 04:49:34 <gonffen> _maniac_: the coinbase transaction which pays the block reward is provided by the pool. If the miner changes this transaction either 1) the hash won't solve the block or 2) the share won't be accepted by the pool as valid
 273 2013-05-23 04:50:11 <gonffen> it would provide no benefit over solo mining
 274 2013-05-23 04:50:26 <gonffen> I'm not sure if they could theoretically or not anyways
 275 2013-05-23 04:51:06 <_maniac_> 1) block solvability is just block having hash < target, right? 2) that's the point, why it submits to pool blocks with higher hashes at all?
 276 2013-05-23 04:52:51 <gonffen> I believe it is just to get credit for the work performed
 277 2013-05-23 04:53:01 <gonffen> which is used for paying out fairly when a block is found
 278 2013-05-23 04:53:22 <sipa> _maniac_: sure, miner can locally check, but that defeats the purpose of pooled mining
 279 2013-05-23 04:53:32 <_maniac_> oh. it suddenly makes sense now.
 280 2013-05-23 04:53:41 rcorreia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 281 2013-05-23 04:53:42 <sipa> the pool needs some key to distribute the income over
 282 2013-05-23 04:53:56 <sipa> and almost-proof-of-work is perfect for that
 283 2013-05-23 04:53:57 <donpdonp> a pool miner doesnt submit every failed block does it??
 284 2013-05-23 04:54:14 <sipa> no, only real blocks
 285 2013-05-23 04:54:22 <sipa> ah
 286 2013-05-23 04:54:30 <sipa> you mean the pool or the hasher?
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 288 2013-05-23 04:54:39 <sipa> i avoid the term miner as it is ambiguous
 289 2013-05-23 04:54:49 <donpdonp> i mean to 'get credit for the work performed'
 290 2013-05-23 04:55:04 <donpdonp> the pool rewards for non-winning-block work as well as the solved block
 291 2013-05-23 04:55:06 <sipa> there is a limit, typically difficulty 1
 292 2013-05-23 04:55:24 <sipa> so a hasher submits each almost-block that would satisfy difficulty 1
 293 2013-05-23 04:55:32 <sipa> to the pool
 294 2013-05-23 04:55:44 * donpdonp hmms
 295 2013-05-23 04:55:56 <donpdonp> interesting
 296 2013-05-23 04:55:59 <_maniac_> sipa: thank you for clarifying.
 297 2013-05-23 04:56:06 <sipa> yw
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 300 2013-05-23 04:58:04 <sipa> asome pools allow choosing a higher limit
 301 2013-05-23 04:58:42 <sipa> for example, you choose (in advance!) to only submit difficulty-10-and-higher satisfying almost-blocks
 302 2013-05-23 04:58:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, difficulty 1 is nice for the people mining on slower hardware
 303 2013-05-23 04:58:59 <phantomcircuit> since it's less sporadic
 304 2013-05-23 04:59:05 <phantomcircuit> but it's also wildly inefficient
 305 2013-05-23 04:59:10 <sipa> in return, the pool counts each of your shares as worth 10
 306 2013-05-23 04:59:22 <foamy> if im solo mining, how do i set what difficulty to start at?
 307 2013-05-23 04:59:34 <phantomcircuit> foamy, that doesn't make any sense
 308 2013-05-23 04:59:37 <phantomcircuit> unless it was a joke
 309 2013-05-23 04:59:39 <phantomcircuit> in which case
 310 2013-05-23 04:59:40 <phantomcircuit> no
 311 2013-05-23 04:59:44 <sipa> if you solo mine, the difficulty is the network diffixulty
 312 2013-05-23 04:59:52 <sipa> ;;diff
 313 2013-05-23 04:59:53 <gribble> 1.1187257461360792E7
 314 2013-05-23 05:00:06 <sipa> 11.87 million
 315 2013-05-23 05:00:14 <foamy> why does guiminer show me at difficulty 1 then
 316 2013-05-23 05:00:21 <sipa> no clue
 317 2013-05-23 05:00:29 <phantomcircuit> foamy, are you in a pool?
 318 2013-05-23 05:00:32 <foamy> no
 319 2013-05-23 05:00:36 <sipa> i've never seen or used guiminer
 320 2013-05-23 05:00:36 <foamy> just my own pool
 321 2013-05-23 05:00:43 <phantomcircuit> so
 322 2013-05-23 05:00:46 <phantomcircuit> you are in a pool
 323 2013-05-23 05:00:49 <sipa> so you're not solo miming
 324 2013-05-23 05:00:50 <phantomcircuit> it's just your own pool?
 325 2013-05-23 05:00:51 <phantomcircuit> wat
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 327 2013-05-23 05:01:29 <sipa> get the disadvantages from both i guess :)
 328 2013-05-23 05:01:32 <donpdonp> its like being in your own rock band :)
 329 2013-05-23 05:01:33 <foamy> all im doing is running bitcoinqt in server mode, then pointing guiminer on a bunch of different rigs i have at the machine im running bitcoinqt on the RPC port
 330 2013-05-23 05:02:09 <foamy> i have about 1gigahash/s total between all my machines
 331 2013-05-23 05:02:10 <duSn> foamy: what happened to your botnet?
 332 2013-05-23 05:02:13 <foamy> so i figured why not
 333 2013-05-23 05:02:23 <foamy> what botnet?
 334 2013-05-23 05:02:42 <duSn> ? i thought you were a botnet wrangler?
 335 2013-05-23 05:02:58 <foamy> talking to the wrong guy i think
 336 2013-05-23 05:03:11 <foamy> anyway what i see on my machine is something like this
 337 2013-05-23 05:03:11 <foamy> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XFtmfXsyXN8/TeHoLdc0nQI/AAAAAAAAAEE/YBMhqG5BKdQ/s800/GUIMiner_SOLO_ok.JPG
 338 2013-05-23 05:03:30 <foamy> it just stays on difficulty 1 but the number of hashes climbs
 339 2013-05-23 05:04:45 <sipa> foamy: that's just guiminer's internal accounting
 340 2013-05-23 05:05:01 <sipa> it uses difficulty-1 hashes to show progress
 341 2013-05-23 05:05:14 <sipa> as you'll likely never see a real block at all
 342 2013-05-23 05:05:25 grau has joined
 343 2013-05-23 05:06:00 phebus has quit (Quit: POKE 1,0)
 344 2013-05-23 05:06:16 <sipa> at 1 GH/s i expect you to find a real block on average every 1.5y
 345 2013-05-23 05:06:42 brwyatt_ is now known as brwyatt_|Away
 346 2013-05-23 05:07:17 <foamy> sorry i meant to write 1000
 347 2013-05-23 05:07:33 <BTCOxygen> sipa: lol
 348 2013-05-23 05:07:51 <sipa> ?
 349 2013-05-23 05:08:06 <foamy> so difficulty 1 hashes are just hashes that dont satisfy the proof of work?
 350 2013-05-23 05:08:13 <sipa> indeed
 351 2013-05-23 05:08:33 <foamy> so what does it say when it does find a hash that satisfies the proof of work?
 352 2013-05-23 05:08:34 <sipa> but would satisfy it if the difficulty were 1
 353 2013-05-23 05:08:51 <sipa> i don't think it even knows
 354 2013-05-23 05:08:56 <foamy> lol
 355 2013-05-23 05:09:05 <sipa> it's up to the pool to validate real work
 356 2013-05-23 05:09:11 <foamy> so why not start at the actual difficulty level?
 357 2013-05-23 05:09:16 <foamy> rather than working up to it?
 358 2013-05-23 05:09:50 <sipa> it doesn't "work up to" anything
 359 2013-05-23 05:09:50 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 360 2013-05-23 05:10:03 <sipa> it just reports somewhat more than necessary
 361 2013-05-23 05:10:08 <sipa> so you can see something
 362 2013-05-23 05:10:16 <sipa> as you'll never see a real block
 363 2013-05-23 05:10:52 whiterabbit has joined
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 365 2013-05-23 05:11:14 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
 366 2013-05-23 05:12:21 <foamy> why not? i know 1000gigahash/s isn't a lot but it should be decent
 367 2013-05-23 05:12:34 <sipa> 1 TH/s?
 368 2013-05-23 05:12:44 <sipa> i thought you said 1 GH/s
 369 2013-05-23 05:12:54 <foamy> i mistyped
 370 2013-05-23 05:12:57 <sipa> with 1 TH/s you can solo mine
 371 2013-05-23 05:13:05 <foamy> well thats what im doing
 372 2013-05-23 05:13:34 <foamy> im not connected to a public pool or anything
 373 2013-05-23 05:13:37 <Luke-Jr> …
 374 2013-05-23 05:13:37 <sipa> you have 12000 machines running guiner like that one?
 375 2013-05-23 05:13:42 <foamy> its just a private pool
 376 2013-05-23 05:13:51 <Luke-Jr> you have 1 Th/s of GPUs?
 377 2013-05-23 05:14:05 <foamy> 3000 machines to be exact
 378 2013-05-23 05:14:19 <foamy> each one has around 400 megahash/s
 379 2013-05-23 05:14:28 <sipa> w t f
 380 2013-05-23 05:14:48 <Luke-Jr> foamy: do you have some kind of rapid deployment system?
 381 2013-05-23 05:14:49 <foamy> so you see why id like to solomine
 382 2013-05-23 05:15:14 <sipa> you may want to aet up some real pool software
 383 2013-05-23 05:15:15 <foamy> no Luke-Jr
 384 2013-05-23 05:15:28 <sipa> a single bitcoin-qt will likely not be able to handle such load
 385 2013-05-23 05:15:34 <Luke-Jr> foamy: bitcoind can only handle that kind of load if you use GBT, and it only does network difficulty
 386 2013-05-23 05:15:50 <Luke-Jr> foamy: and only BFGMiner supports GBT solo mining
 387 2013-05-23 05:15:53 lolcookie__ has joined
 388 2013-05-23 05:15:59 <sipa> may i ask where you get such hardware?
 389 2013-05-23 05:16:01 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 390 2013-05-23 05:16:11 <Luke-Jr> you *probably* want to setup a real poolserver, though: Eloipool is the only actively maintained open source one (sadly)
 391 2013-05-23 05:16:25 <Luke-Jr> that will let you count shares and such
 392 2013-05-23 05:16:30 <foamy> south korea
 393 2013-05-23 05:16:33 <Luke-Jr> O.o
 394 2013-05-23 05:16:49 <Luke-Jr> South Korea has access to Radeons?
 395 2013-05-23 05:16:50 Thepok has joined
 396 2013-05-23 05:16:54 <sipa> ok i guess "where" was sort of metaphorical
 397 2013-05-23 05:17:13 <gruvfunk> rhetorical?
 398 2013-05-23 05:17:19 <sipa> i mean: you have access to a computing lab for example?
 399 2013-05-23 05:17:21 <sipa> no
 400 2013-05-23 05:17:26 <sipa> i want an answer!
 401 2013-05-23 05:17:40 nsillik has joined
 402 2013-05-23 05:18:02 * Luke-Jr would hate to be the guy to deploy 3000 machines with GUIMiner manually..
 403 2013-05-23 05:18:20 <foamy> eSports gaming rig surplus I bought for pennies on the dollar
 404 2013-05-23 05:19:19 <foamy> total investment = 45,000$
 405 2013-05-23 05:19:27 <Luke-Jr> ouch
 406 2013-05-23 05:19:31 <foamy> power costs will be a bitch
 407 2013-05-23 05:19:33 <Luke-Jr> that sounds like a bad idea now
 408 2013-05-23 05:19:38 phebus has joined
 409 2013-05-23 05:19:46 <Luke-Jr> yeah, you coudl get 1.5 Th/s for like $30k using far less power
 410 2013-05-23 05:19:52 <_maniac_> Luke-Jr: btw, any reason why you developed eloipool with python 3?
 411 2013-05-23 05:20:24 <Luke-Jr> _maniac_: I was hoping others would contribute
 412 2013-05-23 05:20:28 <Luke-Jr> otherwise I'd have done C or C++
 413 2013-05-23 05:20:42 <_maniac_> no, I mean why third version?
 414 2013-05-23 05:20:50 <Luke-Jr> _maniac_: because there's no fourth version? O.o
 415 2013-05-23 05:21:02 <_maniac_> :)
 416 2013-05-23 05:21:23 <sipa> hhaha
 417 2013-05-23 05:21:27 <foamy> so anyway
 418 2013-05-23 05:21:29 <foamy> if i run bitcoind
 419 2013-05-23 05:21:36 <foamy> i can hash at the actual network difficulty?
 420 2013-05-23 05:21:49 <Luke-Jr> foamy: as long as you use GBT
 421 2013-05-23 05:22:03 <foamy> or will i still be hashing difficulty 1 hashes
 422 2013-05-23 05:22:16 <Luke-Jr> foamy: bitcoind never uses difficulty 1
 423 2013-05-23 05:22:29 <Luke-Jr> nor does Bitcoin-Qt
 424 2013-05-23 05:23:03 <Luke-Jr> except on testnet!
 425 2013-05-23 05:23:05 <foamy> hmmm wonder why ive been mining on difficulty 1 then
 426 2013-05-23 05:23:15 <Luke-Jr> foamy: because GUIMiner doesn't support solo mining, is my guess
 427 2013-05-23 05:23:24 <foamy> it is supposed to
 428 2013-05-23 05:23:24 <Luke-Jr> nor GBT for that matter
 429 2013-05-23 05:23:44 <foamy> so i use bitcoind as my pool server
 430 2013-05-23 05:23:44 <Luke-Jr> foamy: probably it's not working at all
 431 2013-05-23 05:23:48 <foamy> and what for mining?
 432 2013-05-23 05:23:52 whiterabbit has joined
 433 2013-05-23 05:23:54 <Luke-Jr> foamy: BFGMiner
 434 2013-05-23 05:24:00 <Luke-Jr> check README for solo mining instructions
 435 2013-05-23 05:24:06 donpdonp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 436 2013-05-23 05:24:07 <foamy> cool
 437 2013-05-23 05:24:10 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 438 2013-05-23 05:24:12 [Author] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 439 2013-05-23 05:24:13 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
 440 2013-05-23 05:24:15 <foamy> now to get 3000 machines configured
 441 2013-05-23 05:24:27 <_maniac_> have fun!
 442 2013-05-23 05:24:28 <foamy> luckily my power bill is free
 443 2013-05-23 05:24:30 <Luke-Jr> foamy: I'd suggest configuring a rapid mass deployment system instead…
 444 2013-05-23 05:24:34 <foamy> *cough* stolen *cough*
 445 2013-05-23 05:24:36 <gruvfunk> are they all in the same network?
 446 2013-05-23 05:24:39 <Luke-Jr> …………
 447 2013-05-23 05:24:40 <foamy> yes
 448 2013-05-23 05:24:56 <duSn> gruvfunk: or in imagination network?
 449 2013-05-23 05:24:58 <Luke-Jr> foamy: what is the network's external IP?
 450 2013-05-23 05:25:04 <gruvfunk> lol duSn
 451 2013-05-23 05:25:40 <foamy> what kind of rapid mass deployment system?
 452 2013-05-23 05:25:55 <Luke-Jr> foamy: depends on the network
 453 2013-05-23 05:26:11 <Luke-Jr> foamy: what is the network's external IP?
 454 2013-05-23 05:26:17 <gruvfunk> hehe
 455 2013-05-23 05:26:33 <foamy> why Luke-JR :P
 456 2013-05-23 05:27:00 <Luke-Jr> foamy: the truth is, I intend to figure out who runs it and report your theft
 457 2013-05-23 05:27:44 <duSn> foamy: cause he wants to firewalk your ass ^h^h^h network http://www.techrepublic.com/article/use-firewalk-in-linuxunix-to-verify-acls-and-check-firewall-rule-sets/5055357
 458 2013-05-23 05:27:55 <foamy> oh its all a private network, probably not very secure
 459 2013-05-23 05:28:14 <foamy> i have a ton of ports open for various server apps
 460 2013-05-23 05:28:21 <foamy> im stealing power from the city
 461 2013-05-23 05:28:38 <gonffen> even better =D
 462 2013-05-23 05:28:45 <gonffen> you should really shut up about ten minutes ago
 463 2013-05-23 05:28:48 [Author] has joined
 464 2013-05-23 05:29:00 <sipa> that's something you may not want to publicly state in a loged channel
 465 2013-05-23 05:29:07 <sipa> *logged
 466 2013-05-23 05:29:11 <Luke-Jr> sipa: depends on if he wants to be caught or not
 467 2013-05-23 05:29:24 <IanCormac> lol
 468 2013-05-23 05:29:31 <foamy> im honestly curious about that
 469 2013-05-23 05:29:39 <IanCormac> Foamy is a simple man
 470 2013-05-23 05:30:18 <foamy> i have to see what happens
 471 2013-05-23 05:30:48 <foamy> its not like i actively set out to steal power or anything
 472 2013-05-23 05:31:08 * duSn googles what federal penitentiary takes bitcoin in it's commissary for foamy 
 473 2013-05-23 05:31:08 <sipa> but you are consciously doing so
 474 2013-05-23 05:31:21 <sipa> ... something like 1 MW
 475 2013-05-23 05:31:27 <sipa> in order of magnitude?
 476 2013-05-23 05:31:34 <foamy> lets see
 477 2013-05-23 05:31:43 <foamy> each rig has a 1 kilowatt psu
 478 2013-05-23 05:31:53 <foamy> assuming it uses all of that (which it probably wont)
 479 2013-05-23 05:32:00 <foamy> 3000 kilowatts
 480 2013-05-23 05:32:03 <gruvfunk> for 400 mh/s per rig? that's a bit much
 481 2013-05-23 05:32:03 X-Scale has joined
 482 2013-05-23 05:32:03 <foamy> so yeah, max 3 mW
 483 2013-05-23 05:32:04 <IanCormac> Nice
 484 2013-05-23 05:32:09 <IanCormac> You mean MW
 485 2013-05-23 05:32:12 <IanCormac> big difference
 486 2013-05-23 05:32:13 <duSn> foamy: ask to be sent to leavenworth - they are the closes to taking bitcoin
 487 2013-05-23 05:32:14 <foamy> MW*
 488 2013-05-23 05:32:15 <foamy> yeah
 489 2013-05-23 05:32:31 <gruvfunk> think about what you are saying
 490 2013-05-23 05:33:02 <jchp> i just got here. is foamy roleplaying or a fucking idiot?
 491 2013-05-23 05:33:09 <gruvfunk> lol
 492 2013-05-23 05:33:10 <duSn> gruvfunk: no one really believes he has even 2 computers let alone 3000  so no problem
 493 2013-05-23 05:33:45 <gruvfunk> just stating that a node has 1000W PSU while producing 400MH/s sounds OFF
 494 2013-05-23 05:33:59 <foamy> i can take some pics later, nothing is really unpacked but you can see the boxes in my garage :)
 495 2013-05-23 05:34:12 <BTCOxygen> foamy: Are you serious ?
 496 2013-05-23 05:34:13 <foamy> these rigs werent made for mining
 497 2013-05-23 05:34:15 <IanCormac> The other 600W per box has to go towards the illegal radio tower broadcasting on public safety and police frequencies
 498 2013-05-23 05:34:19 <foamy> they are surplus gaming rigs from south korea
 499 2013-05-23 05:34:23 * gonffen waits for the pictures of apple ][e hardware
 500 2013-05-23 05:34:25 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
 501 2013-05-23 05:34:35 <foamy> each has 1 or 2 highend graphics cards and overkill on the psu
 502 2013-05-23 05:34:56 <gruvfunk> 1 or 2 high end cards producing 400 mh/s? ok
 503 2013-05-23 05:34:57 <duSn> foamy: https://encrypted.google.com/shopping/product/9398929868739909605?q=bicycle%20powered%20computer&hl=en&sa=X&ei=36SdUa7gG8iIiAKemYDABA&ved=0CF8Q8wIwAA
 504 2013-05-23 05:35:10 <foamy> would you like to see an SS of one of them?
 505 2013-05-23 05:35:19 <foamy> i only tested 2 so far
 506 2013-05-23 05:35:24 <foamy> both were getting around 400mh/s
 507 2013-05-23 05:35:37 mrkent has joined
 508 2013-05-23 05:35:48 <sipa> your screenshot only showed 80 MH/s
 509 2013-05-23 05:35:54 <foamy> that was from the web
 510 2013-05-23 05:35:56 <gruvfunk> what kind of GPU's?
 511 2013-05-23 05:35:57 <foamy> not mine
 512 2013-05-23 05:36:12 <IanCormac> Shit foamy, give us some pics
 513 2013-05-23 05:36:20 <foamy> one sec
 514 2013-05-23 05:36:22 <foamy> turning it on
 515 2013-05-23 05:36:30 viperhr has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 516 2013-05-23 05:36:40 <gruvfunk> u have 3k nodes to build, have 2 up, but.. it's OFF?
 517 2013-05-23 05:36:40 <jchp> i'm a dragon
 518 2013-05-23 05:36:55 <warren> (how is this on topic?)
 519 2013-05-23 05:36:59 <foamy> yeah because apparently i have it set up totally wrong
 520 2013-05-23 05:37:02 viperhr has joined
 521 2013-05-23 05:37:14 <IanCormac> warren: Don't worry about it, this is good
 522 2013-05-23 05:37:15 * gruvfunk listens to warren 
 523 2013-05-23 05:37:22 <sipa> maybe take it to #bitcoin-mining
 524 2013-05-23 05:37:37 <jchp> or #bitcoin-roleplaying
 525 2013-05-23 05:37:37 <foamy> sorry i didn't mean to make it a whole thing
 526 2013-05-23 05:37:48 <duSn> /join #bitcoin-fantasy
 527 2013-05-23 05:37:49 <foamy> i didn't realize what i was doing was so weird
 528 2013-05-23 05:38:09 donpdonp has joined
 529 2013-05-23 05:38:28 bitWorks has joined
 530 2013-05-23 05:38:31 <gruvfunk> it's not bitcoin-dev talk foamy
 531 2013-05-23 05:38:34 <sipa> if you are seriously doing this, and don't consider stealing 3 MW "weird", you have a problem
 532 2013-05-23 05:39:08 <duSn> they'll raid his pad thinking he is running a grow lab anyway
 533 2013-05-23 05:39:10 cuqa has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 534 2013-05-23 05:39:20 <IanCormac> He claims to be using stolen city power, so...
 535 2013-05-23 05:39:21 cuqa has joined
 536 2013-05-23 05:40:05 <sipa> where are you doing that, foamy
 537 2013-05-23 05:40:08 <BTCOxygen> sipa: Why are you registered to freenode as sipa1024 ? O_o
 538 2013-05-23 05:40:22 <foamy> seoul
 539 2013-05-23 05:40:33 * gruvfunk notes sipa is right - it's #bitcoin-mining talk
 540 2013-05-23 05:41:01 <BTCOxygen> foamy: IMO, this should be considered spam. :P
 541 2013-05-23 05:41:14 <BTCOxygen> Please take it to #bitcoin-minin
 542 2013-05-23 05:41:15 <BTCOxygen> Please take it to #bitcoin-mining
 543 2013-05-23 05:41:17 <IanCormac> Well, I'm curious if he's serious, and if he's not, it's pretty funny
 544 2013-05-23 05:41:29 <BTCOxygen> ^^
 545 2013-05-23 05:41:30 <_maniac_> Does anyone have stratum protocol spec?
 546 2013-05-23 05:41:33 <duSn> i hope he ain't in sarasota floriday http://www.thisweekinsarasota.com/spd-wrong-to-arrest-homeless-man-for-charging-cell-phone/
 547 2013-05-23 05:41:36 <_maniac_> site seems to be rather incomplete.
 548 2013-05-23 05:41:40 <IanCormac> LOL
 549 2013-05-23 05:41:46 <BTCOxygen> _maniac_: mining.bitcoin.cz/stratum
 550 2013-05-23 05:42:06 <BTCOxygen> errr
 551 2013-05-23 05:42:08 <BTCOxygen> _maniac_: http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stratum-mining
 552 2013-05-23 05:42:47 <sipa> BTCOxygen: that's my original nickname :)
 553 2013-05-23 05:42:56 <_maniac_> missed that googledocs link there
 554 2013-05-23 05:43:15 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 555 2013-05-23 05:43:22 <BTCOxygen> sipa: lol
 556 2013-05-23 05:43:52 <BTCOxygen> sipa: I don't see a sipa1024 on this channel.
 557 2013-05-23 05:44:06 RazielXYZ has joined
 558 2013-05-23 05:44:28 <BTCOxygen> Also why did you go for sipa1024 insted of sipa ?
 559 2013-05-23 05:44:43 <IanCormac> Because 2^10 is 1024
 560 2013-05-23 05:44:59 <duSn> BTCOxygen: please take this to #bitcoin-sipa :)
 561 2013-05-23 05:45:24 <BTCOxygen> duSn: And sipa is not there. :P
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 619 2013-05-23 06:46:35 <SteveDekorte> Is there a way to run bitcoind so it maintains a full tx output index? (I'm guessing -txindex doesn't support indexing tx outputs)
 620 2013-05-23 06:47:01 Neozonz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 621 2013-05-23 06:48:12 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: why isn't txindex good enough?
 622 2013-05-23 06:48:54 <lianj> i think he wants the balance of each address
 623 2013-05-23 06:48:57 <SteveDekorte> can I efficiently ask it for a list of unspent outputs for a given address?
 624 2013-05-23 06:49:01 <Luke-Jr> addresses don't have balances
 625 2013-05-23 06:49:19 <lianj> sum of all unspent outputs then :P
 626 2013-05-23 06:49:28 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: the UTXO db should be good enough for that
 627 2013-05-23 06:49:41 lolcookie___ has joined
 628 2013-05-23 06:49:46 <Luke-Jr> lianj: that is a worthless operation
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 630 2013-05-23 06:52:04 <SteveDekorte> Luke-Jr: can you point me to docs on using the UTXO db?
 631 2013-05-23 06:52:27 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: there are none
 632 2013-05-23 06:53:00 <SteveDekorte> Luke-Jr: is this a feature in a current release?
 633 2013-05-23 06:53:28 <duSn> SteveDekorte: why so curious about other peoples unspent balances?
 634 2013-05-23 06:53:37 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: no, it's internals
 635 2013-05-23 06:53:42 Neozonz has joined
 636 2013-05-23 06:54:23 <lianj> duSn: if you build something like blockchain.info or don't want to use the wallet.dat from bitcoin-qt, you need to
 637 2013-05-23 06:55:01 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 638 2013-05-23 06:55:13 <duSn> lianj: is that to the right person?
 639 2013-05-23 06:55:31 bitit has joined
 640 2013-05-23 06:55:37 <lianj> yes
 641 2013-05-23 06:55:47 <duSn> okay please explain
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 645 2013-05-23 06:56:07 <SteveDekorte> duSn: imagine a payment system where you present a QR code to a user for a destination address -100s of millions of these over the course of a year - a small fraction of which may ever be used, but you want to know if any are ever used again
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 648 2013-05-23 06:57:04 <duSn> you walk into a bank and ask the teller about the balances of peoples accounts
 649 2013-05-23 06:57:22 <lianj>  you clearly dont get it
 650 2013-05-23 06:57:24 <Luke-Jr> addresses are not accounts
 651 2013-05-23 06:57:28 <Luke-Jr> and have no balance
 652 2013-05-23 06:57:34 <Luke-Jr> addresses are to be used only once ever
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 654 2013-05-23 06:59:48 <lianj> duSn: still if you dont want to use a wallet.dat you need to be able to see all unspent outputs to addresses you own in order to see their balances. has nothing to do with spying on other peoples balances
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 657 2013-05-23 07:00:36 <phantomcircuit> listunspent
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 659 2013-05-23 07:00:45 <SteveDekorte> lianj: I don't get it or duSn doesn't? :)
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 661 2013-05-23 07:01:08 <lianj> phantomcircuit: does that work for addresses that are not in your wallet?
 662 2013-05-23 07:01:09 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, you wouldn't happen to know the syntax for unlocking an unspent output locked with lockspent would you
 663 2013-05-23 07:01:17 <phantomcircuit> the help seems a bit obtuse
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 665 2013-05-23 07:01:36 <phantomcircuit> lianj, no but you said for addresses you own
 666 2013-05-23 07:01:49 <lianj> "if you dont want to use a wallet.dat you need to be able"
 667 2013-05-23 07:01:50 <lianj> but yea
 668 2013-05-23 07:01:52 <phantomcircuit> either way you cant put 100s of millions of addresses in a bitcoind wallet.dat
 669 2013-05-23 07:01:54 <phantomcircuit> it'll melt
 670 2013-05-23 07:02:10 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: exactly
 671 2013-05-23 07:02:14 <phantomcircuit> well more accurately a number of operations are O(n) including loading
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 674 2013-05-23 07:03:05 <phantomcircuit> SteveDekorte, let me help you, addresses i control x unspent outputs is a cartesian join
 675 2013-05-23 07:03:20 <phantomcircuit> if you have more than a few thousand it'll effectively be an infinite loop
 676 2013-05-23 07:03:28 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: I was hoping it there was a mode to have bitcoind maintain a "utxo" db and I could query it as needed
 677 2013-05-23 07:03:50 <phantomcircuit> SteveDekorte, internally there is a utxo, however it does not keep track of addresses
 678 2013-05-23 07:04:06 <phantomcircuit> instead the wallet.dat db keeps track of which outputs you can spend
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 680 2013-05-23 07:04:49 <phantomcircuit> SteveDekorte, what's your goal here though
 681 2013-05-23 07:04:56 <phantomcircuit> maybe explaining it more would help to clarify
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 683 2013-05-23 07:07:23 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: I thought I did :) ok, say I'm making a payment system and whenever a customer *might* want to make a payment, I generate a key pair and present a QR code to accept the payment - this might happen millions of times a year
 684 2013-05-23 07:07:55 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: one approach is to say they "die" if no payment is sent within a given period - just archive the keys - fine
 685 2013-05-23 07:08:12 <phantomcircuit> SteveDekorte, oh i see what you're saying
 686 2013-05-23 07:08:19 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: but you could always have a customer call one day and say they sent it later or something
 687 2013-05-23 07:08:31 <SteveDekorte> phantomcircuit: and then you have a support issue
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 689 2013-05-23 07:08:44 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: you need to wait for confirmations anyway
 690 2013-05-23 07:08:49 <Luke-Jr> SteveDekorte: just scan every block
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 692 2013-05-23 07:09:35 <lianj> basically listunspent but for addresses that are not in the wallet because of wallet scaling concerns, right?
 693 2013-05-23 07:09:39 <SteveDekorte> Luke-Jr: right, that works and is probably ok if this is a rare event
 694 2013-05-23 07:10:03 <SteveDekorte> lianj: right
 695 2013-05-23 07:10:17 <phantomcircuit> lianj, actually adding that as an rpc call shouldn't be that hard
 696 2013-05-23 07:10:21 <phantomcircuit> let me look at it
 697 2013-05-23 07:10:28 <lianj> you have to put your own db ontop of it and do the indexes
 698 2013-05-23 07:10:31 <phantomcircuit> i mean it might take 10 minutes to return...
 699 2013-05-23 07:10:39 <lianj> phantomcircuit: haha
 700 2013-05-23 07:11:39 <lianj> lets quickly check our million addresses 1M*10min, sweet
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 702 2013-05-23 07:12:31 <Luke-Jr> lianj: nah, do the inverse
 703 2013-05-23 07:12:40 <Luke-Jr> lianj: for every output in the block you can parse, see if it's in your db
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 706 2013-05-23 07:13:23 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, that's what he's actually doing already
 707 2013-05-23 07:13:46 <phantomcircuit> just not with bitcoind
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 709 2013-05-23 07:15:12 <phantomcircuit> actually
 710 2013-05-23 07:15:25 <phantomcircuit> i think just making gettransaction work with non wallet transactions would be enough
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 712 2013-05-23 07:15:35 <phantomcircuit> the problem with that is the index for that would be huge
 713 2013-05-23 07:15:52 <lianj> it is :D
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 715 2013-05-23 07:16:20 <phantomcircuit> lianj, how many transactions are there total?
 716 2013-05-23 07:16:26 <phantomcircuit> im actually not even sure
 717 2013-05-23 07:16:57 <lianj> about 18M only
 718 2013-05-23 07:17:07 <phantomcircuit> oh
 719 2013-05-23 07:17:11 <phantomcircuit> that's not bad actually
 720 2013-05-23 07:17:27 <lianj> but outputs, its about 40M outputs
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 722 2013-05-23 07:18:41 <phantomcircuit> so in a red black tree that's like 7.5 memory lookups per lookup
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 725 2013-05-23 07:19:45 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, any idea why gettransaction only works for wallet transactions?
 726 2013-05-23 07:19:45 <lianj> with the huge inde, its f'ing fast
 727 2013-05-23 07:20:00 <lianj> s/inde/index
 728 2013-05-23 07:20:54 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: because it's a wallet RPC
 729 2013-05-23 07:21:29 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, is that it?
 730 2013-05-23 07:21:30 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 731 2013-05-23 07:21:39 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: getrawtransaction works on any
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 734 2013-05-23 07:22:22 <phantomcircuit> oh so it does
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 738 2013-05-23 07:22:36 <phantomcircuit> huh
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 741 2013-05-23 07:23:44 <lianj> phantomcircuit: with tinde, yes
 742 2013-05-23 07:23:47 <phantomcircuit> it should be pretty easy to build an external wallet with getblockhash/getblock/getrawtransaction and a transaction decoder that can figure out if the transaction is a standard spend
 743 2013-05-23 07:23:52 <lianj> crap keyboard, sorry
 744 2013-05-23 07:24:07 <lianj> yea
 745 2013-05-23 07:24:30 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: getrawtransaction <txid> 1
 746 2013-05-23 07:24:53 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, well shit maybe i should just do that
 747 2013-05-23 07:25:18 <phantomcircuit> security and scalability issues of the normal wallet totally bypassed
 748 2013-05-23 07:25:33 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: basically what Eligius does
 749 2013-05-23 07:25:42 <Luke-Jr> there's literally nothing anyone can steal even if they cracked into our server
 750 2013-05-23 07:25:55 <phantomcircuit> there's a joke in there about you being poor
 751 2013-05-23 07:26:03 <phantomcircuit> :P
 752 2013-05-23 07:26:40 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: the holding wallet is offline
 753 2013-05-23 07:26:46 * duSn tried to find some article to support his position but got sidetracked with all the good vulnerability exploits
 754 2013-05-23 07:26:55 <Luke-Jr> duSn: O.o
 755 2013-05-23 07:27:10 <duSn> stories
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 757 2013-05-23 07:27:55 <duSn> google     bitcoin address wallet vulnerability   and some great stories come up :)
 758 2013-05-23 07:28:02 <phantomcircuit> -rpcuser=u -rpcpassword=p
 759 2013-05-23 07:28:09 <phantomcircuit> securitahh
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 762 2013-05-23 07:31:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, any idea what the format is for dumpprivkey
 763 2013-05-23 07:31:38 <phantomcircuit> actually i dont care for this purpose
 764 2013-05-23 07:31:40 <phantomcircuit> find out later
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 778 2013-05-23 07:49:24 <duSn> what about this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures#CVE-2013-2272
 779 2013-05-23 07:49:50 <Luke-Jr> duSn: what about it?
 780 2013-05-23 07:50:52 <jouke> duSn: it is fixed in recent code.
 781 2013-05-23 07:51:59 <jouke> Accidentaly I recently spent quite a while on figuring out when exactly it was fixed. I believe it was this commit: commit ee9e313fc767aaa82ace29712c766c91be11a890
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 785 2013-05-23 07:55:27 <jouke> lol, I hadn't noticed the verbose option on getrawtransaction. A well, at least I know how to deserialize transactions now.
 786 2013-05-23 07:55:45 <phantomcircuit> lol
 787 2013-05-23 07:55:49 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin rpc failed
 788 2013-05-23 07:56:06 <phantomcircuit> i ran out of local ports for new http connections trying to load all the blocks with getblock
 789 2013-05-23 07:56:17 <phantomcircuit> *did not go as planned*
 790 2013-05-23 07:57:24 <duSn> jouke: thanks
 791 2013-05-23 07:58:04 <grau> phantomcircuit: you discover a reason why bits of proof is using an industry standard message bus
 792 2013-05-23 07:58:43 <phantomcircuit> shh
 793 2013-05-23 07:58:47 <phantomcircuit> just
 794 2013-05-23 07:58:49 <phantomcircuit> shhhhhhh
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 796 2013-05-23 07:58:57 <grau> ok
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 800 2013-05-23 08:09:24 <phantomcircuit> huh
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 802 2013-05-23 08:09:33 <phantomcircuit> exception from getrawtransaction
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 805 2013-05-23 08:10:52 <jouke> how is e411dbebd2f7d64dafeef9b14b5c59ec60c36779d43f850e5e347abee1e1a455 processed? Is the script marked valid after the first op_checksig?
 806 2013-05-23 08:11:16 <phantomcircuit> ooh im missing the txindex
 807 2013-05-23 08:12:09 <phantomcircuit> darn reindex takes ages
 808 2013-05-23 08:15:20 <phantomcircuit> hmm guess i'll take this back up tomorrow...
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 815 2013-05-23 08:27:19 <JDuke128> hi , my wallet.getBalance returns 0 but it was returning valid value on first h2 download , after restarting app i got 0 BTC back.Why ?
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 822 2013-05-23 08:40:24 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: ping
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 833 2013-05-23 08:54:26 <jonass> just encountered that the http://blockexplorer.com/testnet lays 2 days back. Is that normal or black-out? Is there another testnet explorer?
 834 2013-05-23 08:54:39 <jonass> (or a script/app to run localy)
 835 2013-05-23 08:55:47 <mhanne> jonass: test.webbtc.com
 836 2013-05-23 08:57:00 <warren> anyone successfully fix Fedora 18's openssl to enable ecdsa?  Having trouble figuring out its FIPS support.  ../libssl.so: undefined reference to `EVP_ecdsa'  It refers to functions that don't exist anywhere within its own source tarball.
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 838 2013-05-23 08:57:13 <jonass> mhanne thx!
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 846 2013-05-23 09:03:04 <BlueMatt> warren: ec has been removed in fedora's openssl
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 851 2013-05-23 09:08:41 <warren> BlueMatt: I know.  I put back upstream's original tarball, and now I'm trying to fix Fedora's pile of patches to build it successfully.
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 858 2013-05-23 09:34:24 <warren> Figured it out.  openssl now working.
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 860 2013-05-23 09:35:32 <warren> Anyone else notice with 0.8.2rc1, sometimes when you exit, it gets stuck forever printing "Flushed 12035 addresses to peers.dat  38ms" in debug.log but it never exits.
 861 2013-05-23 09:36:29 <sipa> sounds like a thread with cs_main stuck
 862 2013-05-23 09:36:29 <warren> kill doesn't work.  kill -9 works.
 863 2013-05-23 09:37:01 <warren> doesn't look like rc2 has anything that might pertain to this
 864 2013-05-23 09:37:54 <warren> sipa: any suggestions to figure out what is getting stuck?
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 866 2013-05-23 09:40:42 <warren> Hmm, this might be happening to my builds on Fedora, but not the gitian builds.
 867 2013-05-23 09:40:57 <warren> happens for both bitcoin and litecoin based on 0.8.2rc1
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 879 2013-05-23 10:05:02 <warren> What's the best way to make bitcoind not attempt to use the network at all during -benchmark?  Perhaps -connect=bogusIP?
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 883 2013-05-23 10:09:50 <MC1984> a bootstrap.dat does that rigth
 884 2013-05-23 10:12:15 <warren> it seems -connect=bogusIP works
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 887 2013-05-23 10:13:58 <warren>     fBenchmark = GetBoolArg("-benchmark"); <--- Wouldn't this be useful if you could say "benchmark to a particular height"?
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 901 2013-05-23 10:55:36 <warren> shoot.  -benchmark doesn't actually measure the time to reindex.
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 903 2013-05-23 10:57:21 <jouke> I am trying to deserialize e411dbebd2f7d64dafeef9b14b5c59ec60c36779d43f850e5e347abee1e1a455 . But on the last txout script, the specified script length doesn't match the actual size. When I ask bitcoind to decode that transaction, it just pops the last 4 bytes off the txout script and treats that as the lockntime?
 904 2013-05-23 10:58:02 <dansmith_btc> Hi, how what bitcoind command do I need to determine whether bitcoind is still syncing?
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 906 2013-05-23 11:01:03 <Scrat> dansmith_btc: it is always syncing
 907 2013-05-23 11:01:18 <jonass> what's the difference between a utxo and a tx?
 908 2013-05-23 11:01:27 <BlueMatt> dansmith_btc: getinfo, if it has connections youre good
 909 2013-05-23 11:01:38 <BlueMatt> jonass: utxo == unspent tx output
 910 2013-05-23 11:01:40 <Scrat> dansmith_btc: you can get the block height from other peers and and compare it to your own
 911 2013-05-23 11:01:49 <Scrat> but it won't be 100% accurate
 912 2013-05-23 11:03:02 <jonass> BlueMatt one again: thank you!
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 925 2013-05-23 11:17:40 <MrDrvon> hi - can someone please send over some testnet-coins? Diff is too high atm to grab a few with my cpu. muS5toqRJNuQGwMSZ1kzEviw785XmwzE6u
 926 2013-05-23 11:17:49 <jouke> I guess I'll just have to ignore that script.
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 931 2013-05-23 11:18:19 <MrDrvon> thank you very much!!
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 941 2013-05-23 11:26:33 <jouke> The only thing I find strange is that decoderawtransaction doesn't give an error on that transaction.
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 967 2013-05-23 12:08:20 <foamz> heh
 968 2013-05-23 12:08:26 <foamz> i just thought of an interesting idea
 969 2013-05-23 12:08:57 <foamz> you create a flash game that offers free satoshi for playing and achieving objectives
 970 2013-05-23 12:09:02 tyn has joined
 971 2013-05-23 12:09:10 <foamz> the flash container is also a miner that contributes to your mining pool
 972 2013-05-23 12:09:20 <Thepok> wont work for long
 973 2013-05-23 12:09:23 <foamz> and you only payout a fraction of what they have contributed by mining
 974 2013-05-23 12:09:27 <Thepok> diff goes up to fast
 975 2013-05-23 12:09:56 <foamz> well even if it does, if amillion people play with just a hashing power of 100kH/s
 976 2013-05-23 12:10:00 <warren> sipa: litecoind: /usr/include/boost/thread/pthread/recursive_mutex.hpp:105: void boost::recursive_mutex::lock(): Assertion `!pthread_mutex_lock(&m)' failed
 977 2013-05-23 12:10:06 <Thepok> !gend 100000
 978 2013-05-23 12:10:06 <gribble> Error: "gend" is not a valid command.
 979 2013-05-23 12:10:13 <Thepok> !gen 100000
 980 2013-05-23 12:10:14 <gribble> Error: "gen" is not a valid command.
 981 2013-05-23 12:10:24 <Thepok> !bc,gen 100000
 982 2013-05-23 12:10:24 <gribble> use the 'genrate' command instead
 983 2013-05-23 12:10:37 <warren> sipa: 0.8.2-based client, during shutdown, no getblocktemplate abuse like gmaxwell indicated earlier
 984 2013-05-23 12:10:38 <Thepok> generate 100000
 985 2013-05-23 12:10:47 <foamz> you still have like 100gH/s
 986 2013-05-23 12:11:07 <BlueMatt> 100 GH is...nothing
 987 2013-05-23 12:11:20 <foamz> sure but its not like you are doing any work
 988 2013-05-23 12:11:20 <BlueMatt> especially with asics shipping every day
 989 2013-05-23 12:11:41 <BlueMatt> yea, it isnt easy to get a million people playing a flash game (100 sure 1000 probably, a million...)
 990 2013-05-23 12:11:41 <Thepok> !genrate 100000
 991 2013-05-23 12:11:41 <foamz> you just need to run a simple website that hosts the flash game/miner
 992 2013-05-23 12:11:42 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 100000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 11187257.4614, is 4.49535123481 BTC per day and 0.18730630145 BTC per hour.
 993 2013-05-23 12:11:59 <BlueMatt> wait 6 months and see what you get...
 994 2013-05-23 12:12:00 <Thepok> and you wont get 100gh
 995 2013-05-23 12:12:12 <Thepok> that may be a million players
 996 2013-05-23 12:12:16 <foamz> i dunno, 100kH/s is a very low estimate
 997 2013-05-23 12:12:28 <foamz> even the lamest computers can contribute that much
 998 2013-05-23 12:12:45 <foamz> i think even a phone can contribute that much
 999 2013-05-23 12:12:46 <Thepok> but players are only playing for 1-2 h a day
1000 2013-05-23 12:12:58 <foamz> and you can attach it to something like farmville
1001 2013-05-23 12:13:08 <Thepok> well conclusion, dont invest to much time in that idea
1002 2013-05-23 12:13:18 <Thepok> there was a startup that did this
1003 2013-05-23 12:13:19 <foamz> people play farmville for free
1004 2013-05-23 12:13:30 <Thepok> and i thing they failed
1005 2013-05-23 12:13:35 <foamz> who?
1006 2013-05-23 12:13:47 <Thepok> was it coinlab?
1007 2013-05-23 12:14:00 <Thepok> they got big funding 500k or so
1008 2013-05-23 12:16:04 <foamz> you dont even need to use flash, you can use java
1009 2013-05-23 12:16:17 <Thepok> give it up yet
1010 2013-05-23 12:16:22 <Thepok> at least for bitcoin
1011 2013-05-23 12:16:39 <Thepok> may talk on #litecoin about your idea ;D
1012 2013-05-23 12:16:48 <Thepok> they are voulnerable for botnets ;D
1013 2013-05-23 12:16:49 <jgm> All you're really doing is pool mining, just not telling people that they're participating.  You'd be better off building an easier way to bring people in to pools and figuring out a reward that would make them interested enough to do it
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1015 2013-05-23 12:16:53 <warren> foamz: people had these ideas two years ago.  in any case it is off topic for this channel.
1016 2013-05-23 12:17:08 <foamz> sorry
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1018 2013-05-23 12:17:56 <warren> sipa: hmm, I wonder if that assertion failure during shutdown is only on native fedora builds.  I haven't seen it happen with my gitian builds yet.
1019 2013-05-23 12:18:00 <foamz> i would be telling them jgm, and theyd be rewarded in game with BTC (just not their full share)
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1021 2013-05-23 12:19:07 <BlueMatt> warren: is it easily reproduceable?
1022 2013-05-23 12:20:22 <warren> BlueMatt: yes, gmaxwell indicated such earlier
1023 2013-05-23 12:20:49 <warren> BlueMatt: although he was rapidly looping getblocktemplate to trigger it.  in my case I just used "stop".
1024 2013-05-23 12:22:27 <BlueMatt> is it easily reproducable for /you/?
1025 2013-05-23 12:22:30 <warren> BlueMatt: I also have it looping forever "Flushed 12035 addresses to peers.dat  38ms" after I tell it to shutdown.  only kill -9 can make it stop.
1026 2013-05-23 12:22:40 <warren> good question.  let me try it agai
1027 2013-05-23 12:22:43 <Diablo-D3> warren: niiiiice
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1030 2013-05-23 12:24:05 <warren> hmm, I can't reproduce the assertion failure after 20 attempts.
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1032 2013-05-23 12:26:19 <warren> ooh
1033 2013-05-23 12:26:30 <warren> I just had the assertion failure on a gitian build.
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1041 2013-05-23 12:30:00 <warren> These two issues make me a wee bit concerned about the imminent 0.8.2
1042 2013-05-23 12:30:05 <warren> going to sleep now
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1098 2013-05-23 13:52:27 <Sealy> anybody have experience with the btc-e api?
1099 2013-05-23 13:52:34 CaptainBlaze has joined
1100 2013-05-23 13:52:42 <Sealy> i want to know if i can place market orders with their api
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1106 2013-05-23 14:02:28 <nsh> Sealy, #btc-e
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1113 2013-05-23 14:15:11 <jgarzik> Almost 10am.  Way too early in the morning.
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1115 2013-05-23 14:15:34 <Sealy> im there nsh … nobodys responding
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1117 2013-05-23 14:16:09 <nsh> Sealy, then maybe read the api documentation while you wait or something
1118 2013-05-23 14:16:49 <Sealy> it does not specify, it specifys price, however the mtgox api allows you to skip that variable and it'll place a market order
1119 2013-05-23 14:17:04 <Sealy> on the btc-e api it states that the value is compulsary
1120 2013-05-23 14:18:22 <Sealy> brb
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1126 2013-05-23 14:28:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what did I do?
1127 2013-05-23 14:29:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: sorry, I set you to highlight because I wanted to ping you, saw it was highlighted, and assumed it had my name in it...so i was confused
1128 2013-05-23 14:29:21 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: anyway...ping
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1130 2013-05-23 14:30:03 <MC1984> 96th
1131 2013-05-23 14:31:31 Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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1134 2013-05-23 14:32:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, um ok :)
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1136 2013-05-23 14:37:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I was reading mike's conference write-up and he mentioned that during the developer chat time there was a lot of discussion of network analysis/monitoring and some of it apparently hinged around you doing stuff while working for coinbase?
1137 2013-05-23 14:37:29 <BlueMatt> s/coinbase/bitpay/...sorry
1138 2013-05-23 14:37:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: was with you until that last :)
1139 2013-05-23 14:37:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: setting up a clone of torservers.net, with a bunch of dedicated servers all over the globe
1140 2013-05-23 14:38:00 <BlueMatt> ie are you planning on working on network monitoring/analysis for bitpay
1141 2013-05-23 14:38:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bit pay will help w/ my time, but this is a separate effort, a non-profit
1142 2013-05-23 14:38:28 <BlueMatt> I was talking about bitcoin network, not tor...
1143 2013-05-23 14:38:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the nodes will run bitcoind, and perform distributed data collection
1144 2013-05-23 14:38:36 <BlueMatt> ahh
1145 2013-05-23 14:38:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: emphasis on "A CLONE OF"
1146 2013-05-23 14:39:01 <BlueMatt> sorry
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1148 2013-05-23 14:39:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: once you have data collected, you can react in real time, get real time alerts, etc.
1149 2013-05-23 14:39:47 <BlueMatt> ok, any chance you could ping me when you have some of that up/started?
1150 2013-05-23 14:40:05 porquilho has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1151 2013-05-23 14:40:05 * BlueMatt is planning on doing something similar, though without the servers, just for data collection
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1153 2013-05-23 14:41:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: renting the first few servers will start next week
1154 2013-05-23 14:41:28 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: coding might start even earlier
1155 2013-05-23 14:42:04 <BlueMatt> ahh, well then ping me when you start coding, Id like to help, at least on the data-collection part
1156 2013-05-23 14:43:08 gjj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1157 2013-05-23 14:43:17 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: even before coding, I would like to get a list of data we want
1158 2013-05-23 14:43:28 sanchaz has quit (Disconnected by services)
1159 2013-05-23 14:43:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: (and can be collected right now)
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1163 2013-05-23 14:44:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: after that, what data can we collect, if there is a "getstats" P2P message or "version" is extended?
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1165 2013-05-23 14:44:25 * BlueMatt is interested in block/tx processing times across individual nodes
1166 2013-05-23 14:44:44 <BlueMatt> hard to measure though
1167 2013-05-23 14:44:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: need hires timestamping + multiple nodes, for comparison
1168 2013-05-23 14:44:48 <nsh> jgarzik, nodes should just encode network statistics in transactions!
1169 2013-05-23 14:44:54 * nsh starts bitcointalk thread
1170 2013-05-23 14:44:59 <BlueMatt> ...
1171 2013-05-23 14:45:08 <nsh> (j/k)
1172 2013-05-23 14:45:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I'm not sure getstats is a good idea...at least for this.  I mostly want what kind of signature verification/block commit times nodes have
1173 2013-05-23 14:46:15 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: "getstats" was TD's off-the-cuff suggestion
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1175 2013-05-23 14:46:56 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: and it seems like making that info easy to get accurately for individual nodes (instead of a rough average where you arent 100% sure any node is quite right) could be bad, or at least Id have to convince there isnt a info leak there
1176 2013-05-23 14:46:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: we will want more than just block/tx prop times, of course.  node counts, client version distribution, node traffic (if measurable), etc.
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1178 2013-05-23 14:47:19 <BlueMatt> ofc, for other things, but Im looking at network simulation and such, so thats most of what I need
1179 2013-05-23 14:49:30 <BlueMatt> I wonder if you could easily get nodes to post their info anonymously somehow...
1180 2013-05-23 14:49:49 <BlueMatt> hmm...lets encode it in a transaction...
1181 2013-05-23 14:49:54 <BlueMatt> ok, sorry
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1185 2013-05-23 14:58:54 <jgarzik> hrm
1186 2013-05-23 14:59:27 <jgarzik> anybody know of a good doc for "gpg key strategy"?  i.e. when to create and use sub-keys, etc.?
1187 2013-05-23 14:59:37 <nsh> good q
1188 2013-05-23 14:59:44 <BlueMatt> guess and check?
1189 2013-05-23 14:59:56 <jgarzik> Creating a new identity jgarzik@bitpay, and moving my GPG stuff over.  From that perspective, it's a brand new GPG keyring and setup.
1190 2013-05-23 15:00:12 <BlueMatt> why though? do you no longer trust your own keyring?
1191 2013-05-23 15:00:16 <BlueMatt> or the people you signed?
1192 2013-05-23 15:00:24 <jgarzik> separate personal and professional
1193 2013-05-23 15:00:37 <jgarzik> I am _not_ sharing my keyring with bitpay
1194 2013-05-23 15:00:47 <BlueMatt> you dont have to...leave it encrypted
1195 2013-05-23 15:00:59 <nsh> http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#MANAGEMENT  /  https://we.riseup.net/riseuplabs+paow/openpgp-best-practices  /  http://wiki.debian.org/subkeys
1196 2013-05-23 15:01:02 <jgarzik> You are being too literal ;p
1197 2013-05-23 15:01:29 <jgarzik> nsh, awesome.  a best-practices doc fits the bill.
1198 2013-05-23 15:01:36 <nsh> :)
1199 2013-05-23 15:01:46 * BlueMatt still fails to see the issue
1200 2013-05-23 15:02:02 <BlueMatt> if you trust them you trust them, whether you met them through work or not
1201 2013-05-23 15:02:15 <BlueMatt> and you can create subkeys for your professional signing and your personal signing
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1203 2013-05-23 15:03:48 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: think legally not technically.  BitPay should never have a claim on my personally signed documents
1204 2013-05-23 15:04:17 <BlueMatt> personally signed? that would imply they are public anyway
1205 2013-05-23 15:04:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: need completely separate keyrings here
1206 2013-05-23 15:04:38 <BlueMatt> unless its encrypted, in which case no one should be able to have a claim to your passphrase
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1208 2013-05-23 15:05:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: well I give up trying to explain.  There are Good Reasons(™) to keep personal and BitPay GPG keys on separate computers and separate universes.
1209 2013-05-23 15:05:48 <nsh> +1
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1211 2013-05-23 15:06:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well, IANAL (and nor are you, or have you spoken to lawyers about similar issues?)
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1228 2013-05-23 15:20:36 <runeks> Belkaar: Did you even find a solution to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2293 ?
1229 2013-05-23 15:20:44 <runeks> s/even/ever
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1231 2013-05-23 15:21:46 <sipa> i don't think the database files are intended to be incompatible
1232 2013-05-23 15:22:00 <sipa> the log and sst file formats are specified in the documentation
1233 2013-05-23 15:22:12 <sipa> but perhaps the arm leveldb code is buggy
1234 2013-05-23 15:22:27 gruez has joined
1235 2013-05-23 15:22:52 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1236 2013-05-23 15:23:23 <BlueMatt> does leveldb have platform-specific code?
1237 2013-05-23 15:23:48 <sipa> some, but not for cpu architectures afaik
1238 2013-05-23 15:23:56 <sipa> just for different OSes
1239 2013-05-23 15:23:58 <BlueMatt> well, yes, ofc, sorry
1240 2013-05-23 15:24:14 <BlueMatt> but yea, for architecture it seems strange
1241 2013-05-23 15:25:13 <jgarzik> OK, it appears that subkeys are largely used for encryption.  All current documents seem to indicate that you simply use the master signing key forever, for signing documents etc.
1242 2013-05-23 15:25:16 <jgarzik> Simple enough.
1243 2013-05-23 15:25:22 tholenst has joined
1244 2013-05-23 15:25:29 <gruez> there seems to be a memory leak in 0.8.1
1245 2013-05-23 15:25:44 <BlueMatt> yea, thats half of what 0.8.2 is designed to address...
1246 2013-05-23 15:25:45 <gruez> when using dbcache=256, the memory usage would grow to over 500mb
1247 2013-05-23 15:25:53 <gruez> BlueMatt: oh ok
1248 2013-05-23 15:27:12 <sipa> jgarzik: i have separate enc and sign keys with limited lifetime, and a master key with inf lifetime
1249 2013-05-23 15:27:23 bakingbread has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1250 2013-05-23 15:27:32 <sipa> gruez: not a memory leak, just very wasteful wuth memory
1251 2013-05-23 15:27:52 <sipa> gruez: 0.8.2 has significant memory usage improvements
1252 2013-05-23 15:28:11 <jgarzik> sipa, interesting
1253 2013-05-23 15:28:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: oh, just rralized you said the same; i had interpreted "address" in your sentence as memory addressing
1254 2013-05-23 15:28:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: umm...ok?
1255 2013-05-23 15:28:52 <jgarzik> By default, GPG generates the master keypair, and one subkey for encryption
1256 2013-05-23 15:28:57 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
1257 2013-05-23 15:29:18 <sipa> i wish we could all switch to EC gpg :p
1258 2013-05-23 15:29:43 <sipa> 521 bit EC beats 15k bit RSA...
1259 2013-05-23 15:30:06 <sipa> xkcd
1260 2013-05-23 15:30:12 <sipa> xkcd 538 bla bla
1261 2013-05-23 15:30:29 <runeks> I read that 512 bit EC is equivalent to 30k RSA
1262 2013-05-23 15:30:58 <BlueMatt> sipa: anti-forensics beats xkcd 538
1263 2013-05-23 15:31:01 <BlueMatt> :p
1264 2013-05-23 15:31:02 <sipa> that seems high, but i'm expert
1265 2013-05-23 15:31:06 <sipa> *no
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1267 2013-05-23 15:31:10 <runeks> But can you encrypt files with EC?
1268 2013-05-23 15:31:24 <sipa> yes, but nobody does
1269 2013-05-23 15:31:31 <runeks> Oh.
1270 2013-05-23 15:31:37 <sipa> at least not directly
1271 2013-05-23 15:31:44 <runeks> I remember reading a post by Satoshi saying this wasn't possible...
1272 2013-05-23 15:31:48 <sipa> hybrid schemes like ECIES are used
1273 2013-05-23 15:31:58 <runeks> Or perhaps just not doable at the time
1274 2013-05-23 15:32:10 <sipa> where you use ECDh is used to establish a shared symmetric secret
1275 2013-05-23 15:32:18 <sipa> and then encrypt using AES
1276 2013-05-23 15:32:29 <sipa> satoshi was not known to be a crypto expert
1277 2013-05-23 15:32:50 bakingbread has joined
1278 2013-05-23 15:33:07 <runeks> Hmm... so you can only do symmetric encryption?
1279 2013-05-23 15:33:26 <sipa> you can do encryption using EC ElGamal directly, but it has as much overhead as ECIES and is much slower
1280 2013-05-23 15:33:55 <sipa> well yes symmetric encryption, but uaig a key that only the owner of the dest privkey can recover
1281 2013-05-23 15:34:03 gigavps has joined
1282 2013-05-23 15:34:07 <runeks> Right. I imagine that if a signature over 256 bits takes ~1 ms, encrypting larger messages isn't really feasible
1283 2013-05-23 15:34:20 <sipa> indeed
1284 2013-05-23 15:34:24 <gigavps> i'm seeing long response times for getblocktemplate in bitcoind
1285 2013-05-23 15:34:35 <sipa> gigavps: try 0.8.2rc2
1286 2013-05-23 15:34:35 fanquake has left ()
1287 2013-05-23 15:34:57 <runeks> sipa: How can you derive a symmetric key from a public key that only the private key can recover?
1288 2013-05-23 15:35:13 <sipa> runeks: google for ECIES
1289 2013-05-23 15:35:17 <runeks> ok
1290 2013-05-23 15:35:19 <gigavps> are there settings i can use before deciding to move to a rc?
1291 2013-05-23 15:35:48 <sipa> gigavps: limit free relay, increase fee per kb...
1292 2013-05-23 15:35:55 <sipa> to keep the mempool small
1293 2013-05-23 15:36:48 <gigavps> does this seem ok? -> http://pastebin.com/6k9bZsnH
1294 2013-05-23 15:37:13 <gigavps> or should i move blockprioritysize to 0
1295 2013-05-23 15:37:38 <sipa> i'm not familiar with all those settings
1296 2013-05-23 15:39:19 <runeks> sipa: That's clever. So the shared key is just their private key multiplied by the other party's public key.
1297 2013-05-23 15:39:48 abrkn has joined
1298 2013-05-23 15:40:41 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1299 2013-05-23 15:40:52 <nsh> in cryptography clever is often adjacent to wrong
1300 2013-05-23 15:41:39 gigavps has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1301 2013-05-23 15:42:00 <runeks> Public key cryptography seems clever to me. But I don't think it's wrong.
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1312 2013-05-23 15:51:52 <jgarzik> saivann, ping
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1316 2013-05-23 15:54:59 <nanotube> jgarzik: verified your sig as per -dev mailing list message
1317 2013-05-23 15:55:10 <nanotube> you might also consider signing your key with your exmulti key?
1318 2013-05-23 15:55:15 viperhr has joined
1319 2013-05-23 15:55:59 <nanotube> or you could have just added another uid to your old key ...
1320 2013-05-23 15:59:38 <saivann> jgarzik : pong
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1330 2013-05-23 16:12:42 <sipa> nsh: cryptography is the art of distinguishing clever from clever-and-safe :p
1331 2013-05-23 16:13:28 <nsh> +1 :)
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1336 2013-05-23 16:16:02 <Ferroh> Hold the phone
1337 2013-05-23 16:16:05 <Ferroh> tx = transmission?
1338 2013-05-23 16:16:13 <Ferroh> I thought tx = transaction :/
1339 2013-05-23 16:16:25 <Ferroh> Damn it, all my code needs to be changed now.
1340 2013-05-23 16:16:39 <BlueMatt> its overloaded, but usually transaction in bitcoin-world
1341 2013-05-23 16:17:01 <Ferroh> ok good. I'm pretending that tx means transaction then.
1342 2013-05-23 16:17:20 <Ferroh> Even though the internet generally seems to say that's wrong.
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1347 2013-05-23 16:18:06 <MC1984> tnx
1348 2013-05-23 16:18:08 <MC1984> txn
1349 2013-05-23 16:18:20 <Ferroh> "txid" though
1350 2013-05-23 16:18:32 <Ferroh> What does that mean?
1351 2013-05-23 16:18:36 <Ferroh> transmission id?
1352 2013-05-23 16:18:39 <MC1984> txn id
1353 2013-05-23 16:18:49 <Ferroh> Well, the bitcoin source doesn't say txn id :)
1354 2013-05-23 16:19:01 alexwaters has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1355 2013-05-23 16:19:05 <MC1984> indeed not
1356 2013-05-23 16:19:35 <MC1984> people make up new acronyms as needed
1357 2013-05-23 16:19:41 <MC1984> theres no spec
1358 2013-05-23 16:19:42 TheLordOfTime has quit (Quit: ERROR: Segmentation Fault in ZNC: admin.so: 56)
1359 2013-05-23 16:19:46 <MC1984> theyre all basically memes
1360 2013-05-23 16:20:59 alexwaters has joined
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1364 2013-05-23 16:21:43 <saivann> jgarzik : ping
1365 2013-05-23 16:22:04 <jgarzik> saivann, pong
1366 2013-05-23 16:22:19 <jgarzik> saivann, See my msg on bitcoin-development?
1367 2013-05-23 16:22:39 <saivann> jgarzik : I am not subscribed to the mailing list at this point
1368 2013-05-23 16:22:54 agath has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1369 2013-05-23 16:23:02 <sipa> Ferroh: txid = transaction id
1370 2013-05-23 16:24:03 whiterabbit has joined
1371 2013-05-23 16:24:26 <saivann> jgarzik : Ah you want to update your PGP key? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CA%2B8xBpcsS5gYbkn2me0qZ8MdHStGqT7sOyK_QThpi6A-zcNXcw%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=bitcoin-development
1372 2013-05-23 16:24:27 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
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1384 2013-05-23 16:30:39 <jgarzik> saivann, correct
1385 2013-05-23 16:30:45 <jgarzik> saivann, and email address
1386 2013-05-23 16:31:02 <jgarzik> saivann, now jgarzik@bitpay.com with the given public key
1387 2013-05-23 16:32:31 zer0def has joined
1388 2013-05-23 16:33:01 <jgarzik> saivann, but an important part of the crypto community is that you need to verify that PGP signed message, to prove I'm not an imposter requesting an email / key change
1389 2013-05-23 16:33:13 <saivann> jgarzik : That's what I'm doing
1390 2013-05-23 16:34:45 <runeks> Regarding Issue #2293. Running bitcoind on armhf hardware with a database created on x86 hardware actually corrupts the database files. When I run bitcoind on the same data that was rejected on armhf hardware I get an error saying it's corrupt.
1391 2013-05-23 16:34:55 epilido has joined
1392 2013-05-23 16:35:57 <saivann> jgarzik : Fine, it will be updated in the next hours. BTW, congrats for your new job at BitPay :)
1393 2013-05-23 16:36:30 <jgarzik> saivann, Thanks x 2
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1396 2013-05-23 16:40:15 <epilido> Bitcoin-qt and linux debian.  Can I symlink the data in the data folder to the original files and only have different wallet file in the new folder then run bitcoin-qt pointed at the new folder and not cause a huge problem.  I want to have a little easier way to have multiple wallets without changing the name all the wallet file name all of the time.  I would expect to have a few folders with all files except the wallet file ln-s b
1397 2013-05-23 16:40:15 <epilido> ack to the data files.
1398 2013-05-23 16:40:32 <runeks> Is the -detach-db=1 option still present for LevelDB versions of bitcoin?
1399 2013-05-23 16:41:01 DaQatz has joined
1400 2013-05-23 16:41:36 Truncatem has joined
1401 2013-05-23 16:42:23 <sipa> runeks: it was -detachdb, and it doesn't exist anymore
1402 2013-05-23 16:42:48 <runeks> Ok. Cool.
1403 2013-05-23 16:43:02 <runeks> sipa: Is there a way to get leveldb to output more information so I can track down why it fails?
1404 2013-05-23 16:43:14 <jgarzik> Anybody else willing to PGP-verify this message?  http://yyz.us/jgarzik-now-at-bitpay.txt
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1410 2013-05-23 16:47:01 <sipa> runeks: there is a log file, iirc
1411 2013-05-23 16:47:54 <runeks> Ah, yes. I was looking at db.log (which is empty)
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1413 2013-05-23 16:50:04 <sipa> yeah that's from bdb
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1431 2013-05-23 16:58:30 <k00shi> jgarzik: Downloaded your bitpay key using gpg --search jeff garzik but when I gpg --verify the txt file it says it wants the key from your exmulti account
1432 2013-05-23 16:59:10 paracyst has joined
1433 2013-05-23 17:00:04 <jgarzik> k00shi, The exmulti public key is used to verify the "jgarzik is now at bitpay" message.
1434 2013-05-23 17:00:12 <k00shi> jgarzik: Well, it works. :-)
1435 2013-05-23 17:00:27 <jgarzik> k00shi, signing "I am now at bitpay" with the bitpay key wouldn't be very useful, no chain of trust :)
1436 2013-05-23 17:00:33 <k00shi> jgarzik: I get your point. :)
1437 2013-05-23 17:00:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you should have put up a bogus message to see if anyone was paying attention, and then sign a real message (maybe you did, I havent verified yet)
1438 2013-05-23 17:00:53 iwilcox_ is now known as iwilcox
1439 2013-05-23 17:01:03 <jgarzik> heh
1440 2013-05-23 17:01:10 <jgarzik> gmaxwell occasionally suggests fun like that
1441 2013-05-23 17:01:35 <jgarzik> I just play it straight and boring
1442 2013-05-23 17:01:45 <BlueMatt> thats...boring
1443 2013-05-23 17:01:57 <BlueMatt> writing a fee solver is hard :(
1444 2013-05-23 17:02:08 <k00shi> Roger Ver has a bunch of keys on public servers that he actually never uploaded.
1445 2013-05-23 17:02:24 saulimus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1446 2013-05-23 17:02:24 <BlueMatt> it was fine until I decided that I should implement adding additional inputs to avoid paying fee on small change, now its incredibly complicated
1447 2013-05-23 17:02:32 <k00shi> Is there a name for that? A kind of crypto-phishing? :-)
1448 2013-05-23 17:02:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok, 1 BTC per transaction
1449 2013-05-23 17:02:45 saulimus has joined
1450 2013-05-23 17:02:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: can I just never generate change?
1451 2013-05-23 17:04:02 <sipa> ok, if you add an output to me instead
1452 2013-05-23 17:04:54 <jgarzik> hah
1453 2013-05-23 17:05:54 FredEE has joined
1454 2013-05-23 17:06:25 <BlueMatt> ahh, well, at least when Im done bitcoinj will generate cheaper transactions than bitcoin-qt :p
1455 2013-05-23 17:07:31 epilido has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1457 2013-05-23 17:11:35 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: solver works towards making global UTXO smaller?
1458 2013-05-23 17:11:54 <BlueMatt> I wish
1459 2013-05-23 17:12:12 <jgarzik> It would be nice to include some compaction, during a normal transaction
1460 2013-05-23 17:12:14 <BlueMatt> it just makes the lowest fee possible
1461 2013-05-23 17:12:22 <BlueMatt> yea, it would.......
1462 2013-05-23 17:12:23 <jgarzik> i.e. send funds, and while doing so, compact coins
1463 2013-05-23 17:12:46 ProfMac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1464 2013-05-23 17:13:11 <BlueMatt> actually, once Ive got this that shouldnt be /too/ hard.........
1465 2013-05-23 17:14:20 <jgarzik> gotta be careful not to make the TX so big that fees start going back up
1466 2013-05-23 17:14:57 <BlueMatt> yea, you just add small inputs until your fee goes up then drop the last one
1467 2013-05-23 17:15:13 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1470 2013-05-23 17:18:20 <sipa> the wallet client should optimize what the user cares about: low fees vs fast confirmation
1471 2013-05-23 17:18:43 <sipa> if we want to minimize UTXO compaction, we should have a network policy that encourages such transactions
1472 2013-05-23 17:19:16 <BlueMatt> true, but if you can kill two birds with one stone...
1473 2013-05-23 17:21:25 <sipa> i don't think you can
1474 2013-05-23 17:21:43 <BlueMatt> yes, if it wont cost more in fees, you can throw in small inputs
1475 2013-05-23 17:21:53 <sipa> that would reduce priority
1476 2013-05-23 17:22:32 johnsoft1 has joined
1477 2013-05-23 17:23:13 <BlueMatt> it could mean you get coins that were previously unspendable...
1478 2013-05-23 17:23:20 <runeks> Can i somehow combine -checklevel=0 with -loadblock and -reindex to rebuild a block index without doing all the heavy ECC stuff on my Raspberry Pi? Do I need to specify all the block files to -loadblock or can I just specify the first one and it'll look for the rest automatically?
1479 2013-05-23 17:23:47 <sipa> runeks: -loadblock needs to be specified once per file (in order)
1480 2013-05-23 17:24:00 <sipa> runeks: -checklevel is for a rewind check done at startup, it has nothing to do with importing
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1483 2013-05-23 17:24:04 <phantomcircuit>  huh
1484 2013-05-23 17:24:08 <phantomcircuit> that's interesting
1485 2013-05-23 17:24:19 <phantomcircuit> getrawtransaction fails for the transaction in block 0
1486 2013-05-23 17:24:22 <sipa> importing after the checkpoint always does a full check, including signatures
1487 2013-05-23 17:24:28 <sipa> phantomcircuit: yes, and it should!
1488 2013-05-23 17:24:34 dvide has joined
1489 2013-05-23 17:24:37 <phantomcircuit> sipa, why?
1490 2013-05-23 17:24:46 <sipa> as that transaction doesn't exist wrt the network rules
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1493 2013-05-23 17:25:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, there's a special rule for that tx?
1494 2013-05-23 17:25:20 <runeks> sipa: Is there a way to build the transction index with -txindex without doing signature checking? I already have a block chain that I trust on my PC, but I'd like to avoid the ECC stuff on the Pi because it will be painfully slow.
1495 2013-05-23 17:25:39 <runeks> phantomcircuit: Yes. Block 0 doesn't follow normal rules.
1496 2013-05-23 17:25:46 <sipa> phantomcircuit: just that satoshi forgot to add it to the tx database when initializing a block chain
1497 2013-05-23 17:25:54 <sipa> phantomcircuit: intentionally or not
1498 2013-05-23 17:26:03 <sipa> so it cannot be spent
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1500 2013-05-23 17:26:16 <runeks> prev_hash for block 0 is 0x00000 etc. so it doesn't follow normal rules, I'd say.
1501 2013-05-23 17:26:18 <phantomcircuit> sipa, well it cannot be spent anyways iirc
1502 2013-05-23 17:26:24 <Diablo-D3> block 0 only contains one tx, right?
1503 2013-05-23 17:26:36 <gmaxwell> runeks: it won't, for the most part.
1504 2013-05-23 17:26:36 <sipa> phantomcircuit: otherwise it could
1505 2013-05-23 17:26:48 <sipa> phantomcircuit: assuming satoshi still had the key
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1507 2013-05-23 17:27:21 <runeks> gmaxwell: The reindexing took quite a while on my x86 system. A lot of the time with 100% CPU usage (on all four cores). So is that just building the transaction index?
1508 2013-05-23 17:27:41 <sipa> runeks: no, that's signature checking
1509 2013-05-23 17:27:53 <gmaxwell> runeks: it doesn't do the signature checking before the last checkpoint.
1510 2013-05-23 17:28:02 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1511 2013-05-23 17:28:10 <sipa> if you see 4 cores working, you're definitely after the checkpoint
1512 2013-05-23 17:28:17 <runeks> Ok. But the last checkpoint probably has a lot of transctions after it.
1513 2013-05-23 17:28:28 <sipa> a checkpoint is a point
1514 2013-05-23 17:28:32 <sipa> it doesn't have transactions
1515 2013-05-23 17:28:40 <runeks> after it
1516 2013-05-23 17:28:43 <MC1984> maybe he didnt want to start a retarded market in "genesis coins" or something
1517 2013-05-23 17:28:45 <sipa> lol, sorry, i misread
1518 2013-05-23 17:28:48 <sipa> yes
1519 2013-05-23 17:28:54 <SomeoneWeird> MC1984, lol
1520 2013-05-23 17:29:11 <runeks> "Minted by Satoshi"
1521 2013-05-23 17:29:27 <MC1984> lol can fully see that being a thing
1522 2013-05-23 17:29:50 <phantomcircuit> sipa, huh it pushes data to the stack and then calls OP_CHECKSIG im pretty sure the chancellors message isn't a valid public key
1523 2013-05-23 17:30:10 <sipa> phantomcircuit: that's the genesis' input
1524 2013-05-23 17:30:15 sanchaz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1525 2013-05-23 17:30:16 <sipa> phantomcircuit: like every coinbase
1526 2013-05-23 17:30:23 <sipa> phantomcircuit: it's the outputs that matter
1527 2013-05-23 17:30:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's the output that im talking about
1528 2013-05-23 17:30:44 <runeks> So is there no way to load a block chain from a trusted source and build a transaction index from it without checking transactions after the last checkpoint?
1529 2013-05-23 17:30:45 <sipa> and that is a normal pay-to-pubkey afaik
1530 2013-05-23 17:30:52 <phantomcircuit> oh
1531 2013-05-23 17:30:54 <phantomcircuit> right it is
1532 2013-05-23 17:30:56 <phantomcircuit> huh
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1539 2013-05-23 17:31:12 <sipa> runeks: copying chainstate
1540 2013-05-23 17:31:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ok so it's excluded because it was never included before
1541 2013-05-23 17:31:22 <phantomcircuit> interesting
1542 2013-05-23 17:31:26 <sipa> runeks: which apparently doesn't work on ARM...
1543 2013-05-23 17:31:30 <phantomcircuit> yet another bizarro network rule :)
1544 2013-05-23 17:31:33 <runeks> sipa: :\
1545 2013-05-23 17:31:54 <runeks> I honestly don't know if it's the chainstate that's failing, or something else (block index?).
1546 2013-05-23 17:32:09 <phantomcircuit> sipa, thanks that would have taken forever to figure out
1547 2013-05-23 17:32:10 <phantomcircuit> heh
1548 2013-05-23 17:32:21 <sipa> phantomcircuit: in 0.8 code, it's explicitly excluded
1549 2013-05-23 17:32:29 <sipa> before, it was sort-of implicit
1550 2013-05-23 17:32:37 <runeks> What's in the database/ directory? "file" says they're Berkeley DB files.
1551 2013-05-23 17:32:43 <Diablo-D3> you know
1552 2013-05-23 17:32:49 <Diablo-D3> the prime logo for amazon
1553 2013-05-23 17:32:52 <Diablo-D3> should light up when you order something
1554 2013-05-23 17:33:05 <MC1984> ok?
1555 2013-05-23 17:33:07 <sipa> runeks: BDB logs
1556 2013-05-23 17:33:12 <runeks> sipa: For the wallet?
1557 2013-05-23 17:33:17 <sipa> runeks: yes
1558 2013-05-23 17:33:22 <runeks> Ok
1559 2013-05-23 17:33:29 tholenst has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1560 2013-05-23 17:34:05 <runeks> sipa: But just to be clear... when  DisconnectBlock() fails, it's LevelDB-related, not BDB-related, right?
1561 2013-05-23 17:34:50 <runeks> The strange thing is that it takes a while to fail. It doesn't instantly spit out an error message. It works at 90%-ish CPU for 10 minutes or so, and then spits out the "database corrupted" message.
1562 2013-05-23 17:34:56 <sipa> runeks: yes
1563 2013-05-23 17:35:23 michagogo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1564 2013-05-23 17:35:28 <runeks> Maybe I should just get it started on the Pi. Probably would have finished by now if it was running while I was looking for a faster solution...
1565 2013-05-23 17:35:38 michagogo has joined
1566 2013-05-23 17:35:58 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, ahaah
1567 2013-05-23 17:36:13 NxTitle is now known as TreasureAgent230
1568 2013-05-23 17:36:18 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ok so my little project just needs to ignore that txid
1569 2013-05-23 17:36:34 TreasureAgent230 is now known as NxTitle
1570 2013-05-23 17:36:40 brson has joined
1571 2013-05-23 17:37:13 <sipa> phantomcircuit: it's one of those tiny rules i use to check whether people writing alternate full node implementations did their homework :)
1572 2013-05-23 17:37:20 <runeks> So if I start bitcoind with a data directory containing only .dat block files in the blocks/ directory, it should use those files and be able to create indices from these, right?
1573 2013-05-23 17:37:25 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hehe
1574 2013-05-23 17:37:41 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i can say for certain that is not what im doing
1575 2013-05-23 17:37:44 <runeks> Instead of downloading them
1576 2013-05-23 17:37:59 <phantomcircuit> (actually what im doing is intended to show that alt nodes for wallet reasons are unnecessary)
1577 2013-05-23 17:38:03 <sipa> runeks: yes, sure
1578 2013-05-23 17:38:09 <runeks> Cool.
1579 2013-05-23 17:38:16 <sipa> runeks: that's actually even faster than -reindex
1580 2013-05-23 17:38:42 <sipa> as it runs at startup, single-threaded, instead of in parallel with normal node operation
1581 2013-05-23 17:38:55 <runeks> sipa: Will I also get a transaction index if txindex=1 in bitcoin.conf?
1582 2013-05-23 17:39:00 <runeks> No need to -reindex?
1583 2013-05-23 17:39:03 <sipa> indeed
1584 2013-05-23 17:39:09 <runeks> Coolness.
1585 2013-05-23 17:39:18 <runeks> That's what we'll do then.
1586 2013-05-23 17:39:18 <sipa> oh wait
1587 2013-05-23 17:39:27 <sipa> there's different possibilities
1588 2013-05-23 17:39:33 <runeks> Uh oh
1589 2013-05-23 17:39:56 dansmith_btc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1590 2013-05-23 17:40:27 <sipa> copy nothing and sync from scratch, copy just block data (blocks/blk*) and use -reindex, copy block data and block index (blocks/blk*, blocks/index/*) and let it rebuild chainstate at startup, copy blocks and chainstate and don't do anything
1591 2013-05-23 17:41:20 <runeks> I see. What takes the longest time, the block index or chainstate?
1592 2013-05-23 17:41:31 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1593 2013-05-23 17:41:37 <runeks> Is chainstate the transaction index?
1594 2013-05-23 17:41:38 <sipa> chainstate, by far
1595 2013-05-23 17:41:46 <sipa> no, it's the unspent transaction output database
1596 2013-05-23 17:41:58 <sipa> block/transaction indexes are in blocks/index/
1597 2013-05-23 17:42:24 <runeks> Ok. I'll try with just block data in blocks/blk* and see how that goes. Will probably take a week :\
1598 2013-05-23 17:43:07 <sipa> i'm very curious how it's possible that the ARM implementation produces corrupted databases that it apparently can read itself
1599 2013-05-23 17:43:33 <runeks> Do I need to delete the blocks/rev* files?
1600 2013-05-23 17:43:56 <sipa> it'll overwrite them
1601 2013-05-23 17:44:03 <runeks> sipa: Yeah. It's entirely possible that LevelDB is just broken on ARM and it can't build the index at all. We'll see.
1602 2013-05-23 17:44:04 <gavinandresen> Anybody able to gitian-build 0.8.2rc2 ?
1603 2013-05-23 17:44:04 <runeks> Ok
1604 2013-05-23 17:45:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: my gitian machine is 10k km from here...
1605 2013-05-23 17:45:25 <gavinandresen> sipa: that makes it harder, I guess
1606 2013-05-23 17:45:46 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1607 2013-05-23 17:45:58 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: sure
1608 2013-05-23 17:45:59 <sipa> gavinandresen: also, there are some known problems with rc2, assert fails/segfaults at shutdown
1609 2013-05-23 17:46:20 <gavinandresen> sipa: regressions from 0.8.1 ?
1610 2013-05-23 17:46:27 <sipa> i assume so
1611 2013-05-23 17:46:36 <sipa> as 0.8.1 didn't have the thread refactor
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1613 2013-05-23 17:46:55 <gavinandresen> ah, right
1614 2013-05-23 17:47:35 <sipa> i can trigger a segfault reproducibly by running bitcoind -nodaemon while a bitcoind is already running
1615 2013-05-23 17:47:58 <sipa> gmaxwell saw an assert fail that he could trigger using some getblocktemplates + shutdown
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1619 2013-05-23 17:48:54 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell : file issues, please....
1620 2013-05-23 17:49:12 <sipa> right!
1621 2013-05-23 17:49:21 <tonikt> I can make a gitian-build for Windows, if you want
1622 2013-05-23 17:51:09 <gavinandresen> tonikt: the more gitian builders, the better
1623 2013-05-23 17:51:47 <tonikt> gavinandresen: OK, so I'm on it...
1624 2013-05-23 17:51:59 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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1627 2013-05-23 17:52:36 <tonikt> gavinandresen: I'm guessing you only care about the checksums - or do you need the exes as well?
1628 2013-05-23 17:53:17 <gavinandresen> tonikt: just checksums.  Pull requests to the https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs  repo are best
1629 2013-05-23 17:53:37 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: you should have brought your new PGP key with you to the Conference >_<
1630 2013-05-23 17:53:53 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1631 2013-05-23 17:54:04 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2687  sorry, I really have no time to work on it right now, I've just been running varrious tests with borrowed minutes here and there.
1632 2013-05-23 17:55:15 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: no worries, I'll see if I can reproduce
1633 2013-05-23 17:55:42 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1634 2013-05-23 17:55:55 workman has joined
1635 2013-05-23 17:56:20 <phantomcircuit> keep running out of src ports for rpc calls with this
1636 2013-05-23 17:56:22 <tonikt> gavinandresen: OK. Just to be sure. This repo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin tag v0.8.2rc2 - right?
1637 2013-05-23 17:56:58 <gavinandresen> tonikt: right
1638 2013-05-23 17:57:02 <tonikt> ok
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1642 2013-05-23 17:58:47 <sipa> gavinandresen: got one bug, i caused it: the pwalletMain->SetbestChain in init.cpp Shutdown should be guarded by a if (pwalletMain)
1643 2013-05-23 17:59:17 <sipa> if there's an error at startup and the wallet is never loaded, pwalletMain is NULL there
1644 2013-05-23 17:59:31 <gavinandresen> sipa: spiffy, that's easy!
1645 2013-05-23 18:00:27 Diapolis has joined
1646 2013-05-23 18:00:28 <gavinandresen> (ah, we just pulled that change, didn't we....)
1647 2013-05-23 18:00:57 <sipa> um yeah...
1648 2013-05-23 18:01:25 SteveDekorte has joined
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1650 2013-05-23 18:02:32 Luke-Jr has joined
1651 2013-05-23 18:03:06 <gmaxwell> Also found the bug at the same time but didn't realize it was caused by that change.
1652 2013-05-23 18:03:55 <gavinandresen> crash-at-shutdown from getblocktemplate looks pretty straightforward, too, a ReserveKey global destructor getting called after dropping out of main()…
1653 2013-05-23 18:04:13 LainZ has joined
1654 2013-05-23 18:04:20 <michagogo> gavinandresen: You said last time that Windows doesn't support the necessary tools to get the build VM to work, right?
1655 2013-05-23 18:04:52 <gavinandresen> michagogo: gitian is all ruby and shell scripts, so maybe you could get it to work in Windows with cygwin or mingw…
1656 2013-05-23 18:04:59 <gavinandresen> … but There Be Dragons
1657 2013-05-23 18:05:26 <michagogo> Is there something explaining the process and what would need to be made to work somewhere?
1658 2013-05-23 18:06:10 SteveDekorte has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1659 2013-05-23 18:06:24 <gavinandresen> michagogo: just the source: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
1660 2013-05-23 18:06:54 Truncatem has joined
1661 2013-05-23 18:08:27 <michagogo> gavinandresen: mingw
1662 2013-05-23 18:08:27 <michagogo> ?
1663 2013-05-23 18:08:49 jgarzik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1664 2013-05-23 18:08:53 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1665 2013-05-23 18:12:03 jgarzik has joined
1666 2013-05-23 18:12:27 jgarzik is now known as Guest54678
1667 2013-05-23 18:14:55 <maaku> michagogo: you can run gitian itself within a VM on Windows or Mac: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1597
1668 2013-05-23 18:15:04 <maaku> but this pull request has not been maintained
1669 2013-05-23 18:15:21 <michagogo> maaku: I suspect my computer won't do well with nested VMs
1670 2013-05-23 18:15:36 <michagogo> Also, didn't you need to have hardware virtualization support?
1671 2013-05-23 18:15:41 <maaku> that approach uses LXC within the gitian VM
1672 2013-05-23 18:15:48 paracyst has quit (Disconnected by services)
1673 2013-05-23 18:15:54 paracyst has joined
1674 2013-05-23 18:16:06 <maaku> probably easier to just scrounge up an ubuntu box somewhere though
1675 2013-05-23 18:16:29 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1676 2013-05-23 18:17:22 dvide has quit ()
1677 2013-05-23 18:17:45 <gavinandresen> VirtualBox on OSX works great, that is how I gitian build these days
1678 2013-05-23 18:18:00 <michagogo> gavinandresen: But running gitian within OSX, right?
1679 2013-05-23 18:18:07 <gavinandresen> yes
1680 2013-05-23 18:18:09 SteveDekorte has joined
1681 2013-05-23 18:18:37 <michagogo> If I understand this correctly, gitian externally manages a VM that it runs, correct?
1682 2013-05-23 18:18:56 <michagogo> So the system you run gitian on needs virtualization support?
1683 2013-05-23 18:19:22 <gavinandresen> michagogo: yes, otherwise it is beastly slow
1684 2013-05-23 18:19:38 <michagogo> I just realized that I have my old laptop from before this one
1685 2013-05-23 18:19:52 da2ce7 has joined
1686 2013-05-23 18:20:21 dvide has joined
1687 2013-05-23 18:20:30 <michagogo> Unfortunately, it has 3GB RAM, an old Intel Core 2 Duo at 1.8 Ghz or so, and it's old enough that I don't know if it can do hardware virtualization... :-/
1688 2013-05-23 18:21:37 <michagogo> gavinandresen: How slow is "beastly slow"?
1689 2013-05-23 18:21:51 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1690 2013-05-23 18:22:20 noah has joined
1691 2013-05-23 18:22:39 <gavinandresen> michagogo: uhhh… a day to complete a build beastly-slow….
1692 2013-05-23 18:22:48 <michagogo> Ah.
1693 2013-05-23 18:23:16 <michagogo> Hmm. Anyone have any experience with installing and running Ubuntu on an external drive?
1694 2013-05-23 18:23:26 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1695 2013-05-23 18:23:31 <michagogo> I think there might be a USB3 drive I might be able to use
1696 2013-05-23 18:23:49 <helo> michagogo: i'm pretty sure that works without any issues
1697 2013-05-23 18:23:54 noah has quit (Client Quit)
1698 2013-05-23 18:23:59 <michagogo> (also, can that be done without altering the local system?)
1699 2013-05-23 18:24:16 <michagogo> In other words, is it all self-contained?
1700 2013-05-23 18:24:18 dino_ has joined
1701 2013-05-23 18:24:23 BTCOxygen has joined
1702 2013-05-23 18:24:39 <helo> yes, it should be. it may by default automount detected partitions, though.
1703 2013-05-23 18:25:27 <michagogo> helo: I don't mind if Ubuntu mounts my windows partition -- as long as I can shut down, unplug, and not leave anything changed on my computer
1704 2013-05-23 18:26:01 dust-otc has joined
1705 2013-05-23 18:26:31 <helo> mounting/unmounting a windows partition probably changes something insignificant.
1706 2013-05-23 18:26:58 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1707 2013-05-23 18:26:59 <gonffen> you might run into a problem if windows is hibernated though :P
1708 2013-05-23 18:27:22 <gonffen> but you shouldn't break anything unless you go out of your way too
1709 2013-05-23 18:27:26 <helo> yeah, hiberfile is kind of annoying... hopefully ubuntu just leaves such partitions alone
1710 2013-05-23 18:28:02 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1713 2013-05-23 18:28:21 Guest54678 is now known as jgarzik_
1714 2013-05-23 18:28:56 <jgarzik_> gavinandresen, At BitPay I'm on OSX now ;p
1715 2013-05-23 18:29:11 <jgarzik_> Latest, super-spiffy MacBook Pro
1716 2013-05-23 18:29:26 * jgarzik_ just finished setting up VirtualBox + Ubuntu 13.crash
1717 2013-05-23 18:30:06 <gavinandresen> jgarzik_: nice, when you have a little time we'll have to get you gitian-building in virtualbox....
1718 2013-05-23 18:30:36 <jgarzik_> gavinandresen, yep, w/ BitPay I can now help out with gitian and such
1719 2013-05-23 18:30:46 <jgarzik_> no such legal restrictions like those at Red Hat
1720 2013-05-23 18:30:56 <gavinandresen> yay for startups!
1721 2013-05-23 18:31:01 <jgarzik_> hehehe
1722 2013-05-23 18:33:03 <jgarzik_> gavinandresen, how much manual building is required, to build bitcoind on OSX?  I might just stick to Ubuntu VM...
1723 2013-05-23 18:33:15 * jgarzik_ hopes to avoid rebuilding, e.g. boost <shiver>  :)
1724 2013-05-23 18:33:55 lolcookie__ has joined
1725 2013-05-23 18:33:55 <gavinandresen> none, macports makes it easy
1726 2013-05-23 18:33:55 <gavinandresen> … just port install <stuff> , then build.
1727 2013-05-23 18:34:19 <phantomcircuit> <stuff>
1728 2013-05-23 18:34:20 <gavinandresen> I tweak my Makefile to build bitcoin with clang instead of gcc, but that's the only manual thing I do
1729 2013-05-23 18:34:21 <phantomcircuit> magic
1730 2013-05-23 18:36:20 dino_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1731 2013-05-23 18:36:33 stargreen has joined
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1733 2013-05-23 18:37:21 <gavinandresen> jgarzik_: if you want to build OSX 10.5-compatible releases… then the process is a much bigger pain in the ass
1734 2013-05-23 18:38:57 lolcookie___ has joined
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1736 2013-05-23 18:39:45 btcquant has joined
1737 2013-05-23 18:40:04 Diapolis has joined
1738 2013-05-23 18:40:40 * jgarzik_ installs MacPorts
1739 2013-05-23 18:42:04 <tonikt> gavinandresen: is this what you needed? https://github.com/piotrnar/gitian.sigs/tree/master/0.8.2rc2-win32/piotrnar
1740 2013-05-23 18:42:28 <tonikt> bitcoin-0.8.2-win32-setup.exe has a different hash, though other executables look fine
1741 2013-05-23 18:42:38 <gavinandresen> tonikt: yes, thanks!
1742 2013-05-23 18:42:41 lolcookie__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1743 2013-05-23 18:43:16 <tonikt> gavinandresen: my pleasure
1744 2013-05-23 18:43:35 Chuky has joined
1745 2013-05-23 18:44:17 savetheinternet has joined
1746 2013-05-23 18:44:47 <k00shi> gavinandresen: Is there some reason that you use MacPorts rather than Homebrew?
1747 2013-05-23 18:45:14 <gavinandresen> k00shi: nope. MacPorts seemed to be a more active project when I started using it a couple years ago
1748 2013-05-23 18:45:18 Xeno-Genesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1749 2013-05-23 18:45:57 savetheinternet has quit (Client Quit)
1750 2013-05-23 18:46:21 * nsh avoids anything to do with brewing, beans, coffee or beverages in general wrt software, out of principle
1751 2013-05-23 18:47:29 default_ has joined
1752 2013-05-23 18:47:51 <michagogo> CPCP?
1753 2013-05-23 18:48:09 <michagogo> HTCPCP*
1754 2013-05-23 18:48:45 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Did the release of Ubuntu used for the host OS matter, or was that only in the VM?
1755 2013-05-23 18:48:47 <nsh> i'd stuxnet it
1756 2013-05-23 18:49:07 <gavinandresen> michagogo: only in the VM
1757 2013-05-23 18:49:10 wumpus is now known as wumpus
1758 2013-05-23 18:49:17 <michagogo> 12.04 amd64, right?
1759 2013-05-23 18:49:22 <gavinandresen> michagogo: e.g. I'm using OSX as the host OS...
1760 2013-05-23 18:49:30 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Ah, right
1761 2013-05-23 18:49:53 <phantomcircuit> hmm lets see here
1762 2013-05-23 18:50:06 <phantomcircuit> txouts re unique to block hash/txid/index
1763 2013-05-23 18:50:10 <phantomcircuit> ignore the first tx
1764 2013-05-23 18:50:29 <phantomcircuit> sipa, anything else you can think of for a system trying to keep track of the UTXO set?
1765 2013-05-23 18:50:49 <sipa> what do you want to accomplish?
1766 2013-05-23 18:50:51 <phantomcircuit> that's not really accurate actually
1767 2013-05-23 18:51:07 <sipa> txouts are indexed by txid:index
1768 2013-05-23 18:51:12 <phantomcircuit> sipa, external wallet using the existing rpc calls
1769 2013-05-23 18:51:33 <phantomcircuit> sipa, there are two coinbase transactions with the same id
1770 2013-05-23 18:51:44 <sipa> forbidden since BIP30
1771 2013-05-23 18:51:45 <phantomcircuit> iirc only the second one is spendable though right?
1772 2013-05-23 18:51:50 <sipa> correct
1773 2013-05-23 18:52:01 <sipa> before BIP30, duplicate txids overwrote the previous one
1774 2013-05-23 18:52:06 <phantomcircuit> hmm so i need something like insert or replace
1775 2013-05-23 18:52:15 jtimon has joined
1776 2013-05-23 18:52:18 <phantomcircuit> select/insert is so annoying
1777 2013-05-23 18:52:19 <phantomcircuit> oh well
1778 2013-05-23 18:52:54 jgarzik_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1779 2013-05-23 18:53:09 <phantomcircuit> sipa, there's only 1 pair of txns with the same id right
1780 2013-05-23 18:53:35 xaptah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1781 2013-05-23 18:53:46 <sipa> fpair?
1782 2013-05-23 18:53:50 <sipa> *pair?
1783 2013-05-23 18:53:57 DaQatz has joined
1784 2013-05-23 18:54:01 <phantomcircuit> there's the two coinbase transactions with the same id
1785 2013-05-23 18:54:08 <phantomcircuit> but there's only those two right?
1786 2013-05-23 18:54:33 default_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1787 2013-05-23 18:54:34 <phantomcircuit> i'll just load them all up with hash/txid/n and then check for myself
1788 2013-05-23 18:54:35 alexwaters1 has joined
1789 2013-05-23 18:54:35 <phantomcircuit> nvm
1790 2013-05-23 18:54:48 default_ has joined
1791 2013-05-23 18:54:52 jgarzik_ has joined
1792 2013-05-23 18:54:55 default_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1793 2013-05-23 18:55:32 default_ has joined
1794 2013-05-23 18:56:59 alexwaters has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1795 2013-05-23 18:57:45 brson has joined
1796 2013-05-23 19:00:39 toffoo has joined
1797 2013-05-23 19:01:03 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: sigs pushed
1798 2013-05-23 19:01:22 <Luke-Jr> win32 installer mismatch
1799 2013-05-23 19:01:23 roconnor has joined
1800 2013-05-23 19:01:45 jeewee has joined
1801 2013-05-23 19:01:54 owowo has joined
1802 2013-05-23 19:02:38 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: maybe you did the EXE signing before the gitian sign?
1803 2013-05-23 19:02:47 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: nope
1804 2013-05-23 19:03:09 <Luke-Jr> hrm
1805 2013-05-23 19:03:12 <Luke-Jr> rc1 matched..
1806 2013-05-23 19:03:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: does #2688 actually help?
1807 2013-05-23 19:03:42 <gavinandresen> do you match https://github.com/piotrnar/gitian.sigs/tree/master/0.8.2rc2-win32/piotrnar  ?
1808 2013-05-23 19:03:44 <sipa> creservekey's refer to the wallet they are from explicitly, afaik
1809 2013-05-23 19:04:34 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, it helps; the bug was the CReserveKey destructor called after main() exited and the wallet-protecting CriticalSection getting deleted
1810 2013-05-23 19:04:47 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: nope
1811 2013-05-23 19:05:44 <sipa> gavinandresen: but it should be deleted...
1812 2013-05-23 19:05:52 savetheinternet has joined
1813 2013-05-23 19:05:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: otherwise the key will remain marked used in the wallet
1814 2013-05-23 19:05:55 * Luke-Jr builds again to see if it's internally consistent
1815 2013-05-23 19:06:38 <gavinandresen> sipa:  right… my patch deletes it when the RPC threads are shutdown, instead of after main() exits
1816 2013-05-23 19:06:59 <gavinandresen> sipa:  (and actually not right, CReserveKey returns the key to the wallet if it is never deleted)
1817 2013-05-23 19:07:22 <gavinandresen> (you have to explicitly KeepKey to make it NOT return to the keypool)
1818 2013-05-23 19:07:28 <sipa> ok, good
1819 2013-05-23 19:07:40 <sipa> still, perhaps a comment to explain that weird logic is useful
1820 2013-05-23 19:07:47 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: can we get a real gitian build for 0.8.2 (gitian-format zip and everything)
1821 2013-05-23 19:07:53 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I'll set it up but we're long since due
1822 2013-05-23 19:08:00 <BlueMatt> and the ability to use gitian's updater will be niiiiceeee
1823 2013-05-23 19:08:11 <Luke-Jr> gitian has formatted zips?
1824 2013-05-23 19:08:19 <BlueMatt> jgarzik_: if you are gonna build bitcoin, make sure the correct pubkey is in contrib/gitian-downloader/...
1825 2013-05-23 19:08:26 <BlueMatt> (incl the 2 config files and your key)
1826 2013-05-23 19:08:31 <gavinandresen> I wonder what the -setup.exe difference is...
1827 2013-05-23 19:08:33 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: its just the output + sigs + such
1828 2013-05-23 19:08:35 <jgarzik_> ok
1829 2013-05-23 19:08:43 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the windows signing stuff breaks that, I believe.
1830 2013-05-23 19:08:58 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: someone needs to teach gitian how to mask the executiable.
1831 2013-05-23 19:08:59 <BlueMatt> it does, but I'd like to see a zip for linux that at least can be verified
1832 2013-05-23 19:09:05 <gmaxwell> K.
1833 2013-05-23 19:09:06 <BlueMatt> and maybe eventually someone will fix gitian...
1834 2013-05-23 19:09:07 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: can you put your -setup.exe somewhere I can get to it?  Or alternatively, do you have time to unzip http://skypaint.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.2rc2-win32-setup.exe  and see how it differs?
1835 2013-05-23 19:09:21 savetheinternet has quit (Client Quit)
1836 2013-05-23 19:09:24 btcquant has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1837 2013-05-23 19:09:28 <gavinandresen> (if I recall correctly, the setup.exe is actually a .zip with extra stuff)
1838 2013-05-23 19:09:38 <BlueMatt> no, the setup.exe is nsis
1839 2013-05-23 19:09:40 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: pretty sure it's not .zip compatible
1840 2013-05-23 19:09:46 <BlueMatt> so its its own compression, iirc we are using lzma
1841 2013-05-23 19:09:48 <sipa> indeed, it uses LZMA iirc
1842 2013-05-23 19:09:50 <gavinandresen> I thought nsis created zip-compatible....
1843 2013-05-23 19:10:04 <BlueMatt> definitely not if its lzma
1844 2013-05-23 19:10:20 <gavinandresen> ok.  which un-compressor uses lzma?
1845 2013-05-23 19:10:20 <sipa> it _could_ be 7z compatible
1846 2013-05-23 19:10:29 <sipa> gavinandresen: lzma?
1847 2013-05-23 19:10:56 <BlueMatt> dont think its anything compatible, at least not afaik
1848 2013-05-23 19:11:10 <BlueMatt> but 7z, xz, and a few more all use lzma
1849 2013-05-23 19:11:14 <sipa> lzma is lzma compatible :)
1850 2013-05-23 19:11:24 <sipa> i mean the program lzma
1851 2013-05-23 19:11:28 <jgarzik_> gavinandresen, do you build with XCode on OSX?
1852 2013-05-23 19:11:33 <jgarzik_> or some other compiler?
1853 2013-05-23 19:11:35 <Luke-Jr> I suspect the *contents* would be the same, in any case
1854 2013-05-23 19:11:55 <Luke-Jr> my working guess is that Ubuntu updated NSIS and the new one is non-deterministic
1855 2013-05-23 19:12:12 <jgarzik_> probably stuffs timestamps in there, somewhere
1856 2013-05-23 19:12:18 <sipa> we uses ubuntu 10.04 to build, no?
1857 2013-05-23 19:12:41 <michagogo> sipa: 12.04, I thought
1858 2013-05-23 19:12:45 <jgarzik_> 12.something
1859 2013-05-23 19:12:54 <sipa> sure?
1860 2013-05-23 19:12:55 <michagogo> That's the latest LTS release
1861 2013-05-23 19:12:55 jgarzik_ is now known as jgarzik
1862 2013-05-23 19:13:08 <Luke-Jr> Binary files bitcoin-0.8.2-win32-setup.exe and build/out/bitcoin-0.8.2-win32-setup.exe differ
1863 2013-05-23 19:13:09 forsetifox has joined
1864 2013-05-23 19:13:16 <gavinandresen> jgarzik_: I build with gcc4.2 to make the OSX releases (on my old OSX 10.6 laptop).  But use clang++ for development
1865 2013-05-23 19:13:22 <sipa> lucid is 10.04
1866 2013-05-23 19:13:22 ngc0202 has joined
1867 2013-05-23 19:13:25 <edcba> it's the backdoor
1868 2013-05-23 19:13:29 <BlueMatt> yes, we use 10.04
1869 2013-05-23 19:13:41 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I don't use xcode, I do everything command-line
1870 2013-05-23 19:13:41 <gavinandresen> (I probably should use xcode, I hear it is Very Nice)
1871 2013-05-23 19:13:54 <michagogo> Ah
1872 2013-05-23 19:14:12 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml -> lucid
1873 2013-05-23 19:14:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, well, I should rephrase.  You use the compiler provided by the XCode pkg, right?
1874 2013-05-23 19:14:26 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win32.yml -> lucid
1875 2013-05-23 19:14:27 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/4tmjZdMZ
1876 2013-05-23 19:14:36 <sipa> for win32, we could certainly upgrade to a lter build env
1877 2013-05-23 19:14:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, or another macport compiler?
1878 2013-05-23 19:14:42 <sipa> (and w64!)
1879 2013-05-23 19:14:54 <jgarzik> sipa, would be nice....
1880 2013-05-23 19:14:58 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, does your bitcoinrpc code support keep-alive?
1881 2013-05-23 19:15:03 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I use the macports clang++
1882 2013-05-23 19:15:05 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, yes
1883 2013-05-23 19:15:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, ok
1884 2013-05-23 19:15:13 <phantomcircuit> do i have to do anything special to make it work?
1885 2013-05-23 19:15:48 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, oh, you mean the python?  there is a pull req to fix that issue.  Thought you were referring to my bitcoind code (I added C++ code for http server keepalive support, making your question thus vague)
1886 2013-05-23 19:15:58 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, oh sorry
1887 2013-05-23 19:16:02 <phantomcircuit> yeah i meant the python code
1888 2013-05-23 19:16:11 <phantomcircuit> keep running out of source ports
1889 2013-05-23 19:16:11 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, look at the pull req queue
1890 2013-05-23 19:16:19 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: clang-3.3 it looks like...
1891 2013-05-23 19:16:35 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, somebody just fixed that issue yesterday.  If you could verify the fix works, I will pull immediately
1892 2013-05-23 19:16:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: only if you set up jenkins/pull-tester to use newer ubuntu
1893 2013-05-23 19:16:59 jedunnigan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1894 2013-05-23 19:17:06 <BlueMatt> (or set it up to use gitian, then I'd be really happy)
1895 2013-05-23 19:17:50 * BlueMatt -> away
1896 2013-05-23 19:18:08 <jgarzik> brb
1897 2013-05-23 19:18:12 jgarzik has quit (Quit: restarting)
1898 2013-05-23 19:18:17 <michagogo> sipa: BlueMatt: On [2013-05-10 17:31:13] (2 hours ahead of England, so UTC +2 or +3) gavinandresen told me it was 12.04 -- was he wrong?
1899 2013-05-23 19:18:25 gst has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1900 2013-05-23 19:18:51 gst has joined
1901 2013-05-23 19:18:57 <gavinandresen> I probably was, I don't know nuthin about linux release names/numbers
1902 2013-05-23 19:19:28 <gavinandresen> (wacky wombat version 11.11 is the latest, right?)
1903 2013-05-23 19:19:46 SteveDekorte has quit (Quit: SteveDekorte)
1904 2013-05-23 19:19:49 jgarzik has joined
1905 2013-05-23 19:19:59 <Luke-Jr> hmm, NSIS package has not changed since rc1
1906 2013-05-23 19:20:06 <michagogo> From http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/05/10#l7369330 on
1907 2013-05-23 19:20:13 <BCB> what is the best source for determining the number of bitcoins in circulaion
1908 2013-05-23 19:20:25 <jgarzik> BCB, the block chain
1909 2013-05-23 19:20:27 <sipa> BCB: 0.8.2rc2 command gettxoutsetinfo
1910 2013-05-23 19:20:34 <Luke-Jr> BCB: there is no good source
1911 2013-05-23 19:21:00 <gavinandresen> clarifying question:  what do you mean "in circulation" ?
1912 2013-05-23 19:21:03 SteveDekorte has joined
1913 2013-05-23 19:21:04 <sipa> currently at 11188989.80331183
1914 2013-05-23 19:21:16 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ACK, works
1915 2013-05-23 19:23:24 <michagogo> 14:32	gavinandresen	"Download the 64-bit Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS .iso CD image from"
1916 2013-05-23 19:23:39 <michagogo> That matches the README file gavinandresen gave me
1917 2013-05-23 19:23:43 <sipa> michagogo: you can use any host OS
1918 2013-05-23 19:23:50 <nsh> can we agree to rename utx0 to "sofachange"
1919 2013-05-23 19:23:54 <michagogo> sipa: For the guest, that was
1920 2013-05-23 19:23:54 <nsh> so people understand
1921 2013-05-23 19:23:54 <nsh> ?
1922 2013-05-23 19:24:04 <sipa> michagogo: you don't build the guest yourself, gitian does
1923 2013-05-23 19:24:15 <Luke-Jr> nsh: misunderstand, you mean?
1924 2013-05-23 19:24:15 <michagogo> sipa: What's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/README ?
1925 2013-05-23 19:24:25 <sipa> a readme file?
1926 2013-05-23 19:24:27 <michagogo> (the bottom)
1927 2013-05-23 19:24:29 <nsh> Luke-Jr, the best kind of understand!
1928 2013-05-23 19:24:31 alexwaters has joined
1929 2013-05-23 19:24:35 <michagogo> I mean, what does it describe that's wrong?
1930 2013-05-23 19:24:43 <Luke-Jr> nsh: also, it's utxo, not utx0
1931 2013-05-23 19:25:03 <nsh> right
1932 2013-05-23 19:25:05 <sipa> michagogo: nothing
1933 2013-05-23 19:25:09 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the only downside to that request is that the connection will eventually timeout with a real rpc server, but i dont think bitcoind actually does that
1934 2013-05-23 19:25:13 <sipa> michagogo: it's using a VM in a VM
1935 2013-05-23 19:25:15 * Luke-Jr ponders if rc1 is still deterministic
1936 2013-05-23 19:25:18 <michagogo> sipa: It is? o_O
1937 2013-05-23 19:25:22 <sipa> michagogo: i'm not talking about which system you are using
1938 2013-05-23 19:25:32 <michagogo> sipa: I know that part
1939 2013-05-23 19:25:36 <sipa> michagogo: i'm talking about the host that runs gitian, and the guess that gitian runs the build in
1940 2013-05-23 19:25:41 jgarzik has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1941 2013-05-23 19:25:42 <gavinandresen> sipa: it is very possible the VirtualBox instructions are wrong
1942 2013-05-23 19:25:49 <sipa> gavinandresen: they look fine
1943 2013-05-23 19:26:02 <sipa> gitian itself constructs its inner guest VM
1944 2013-05-23 19:26:06 <sipa> and it is 10.04
1945 2013-05-23 19:26:08 <michagogo> I see.
1946 2013-05-23 19:26:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: Not in the VirtualBox case
1947 2013-05-23 19:26:13 <michagogo> Does it download the iso itself?
1948 2013-05-23 19:26:20 seeingidog__ has joined
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1950 2013-05-23 19:26:29 <sipa> gavinandresen: eh, yes it does...
1951 2013-05-23 19:26:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: it's LXC so it's not a full VM
1952 2013-05-23 19:26:45 <gavinandresen> sipa: it is not LXC
1953 2013-05-23 19:26:52 <Luke-Jr> sipa: gavinandresen is talking about VirtualBox as the gitian guest VM
1954 2013-05-23 19:26:57 <Luke-Jr> not the host system
1955 2013-05-23 19:27:14 <gavinandresen> yes
1956 2013-05-23 19:27:30 <sipa> i don't understand anymore
1957 2013-05-23 19:27:37 <gavinandresen> wait-- do LXC gitian builds even work?  Last I tried they were a mismatch….
1958 2013-05-23 19:27:57 <sipa> if your inner gitian VM is not 10.04, there is no way you can get matching binaries with others
1959 2013-05-23 19:27:59 <gavinandresen> sipa: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder#virtualbox-1
1960 2013-05-23 19:28:01 alexwaters1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1961 2013-05-23 19:28:27 <BCB> sipa: thank you
1962 2013-05-23 19:29:05 * michagogo is confused
1963 2013-05-23 19:29:07 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1964 2013-05-23 19:29:10 <sipa> michagogo: me too
1965 2013-05-23 19:29:15 <gavinandresen> ok, backing up...
1966 2013-05-23 19:29:26 <gavinandresen> michagogo: what hardware/os are you starting with?
1967 2013-05-23 19:29:42 <sipa> gavinandresen: oh ok, so you are manually creating the gitian VM
1968 2013-05-23 19:29:58 <sipa> and it is gitian-lucid-i386
1969 2013-05-23 19:30:03 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1970 2013-05-23 19:30:11 <sipa> so i assume you're the one choosing the version
1971 2013-05-23 19:30:35 Thepok has joined
1972 2013-05-23 19:30:41 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Right now, I'm on my HP Pavilion dv6t-7000 Quad Edition, Core i7-3610QM, 8GB RAM, running Windows 7 x64
1973 2013-05-23 19:30:56 <michagogo> gavinandresen: I'm planning to install Ubuntu on an external drive
1974 2013-05-23 19:31:45 <gavinandresen> michagogo: got it. SO you'll boot from that external drive into Ubuntu, then gitian-build?
1975 2013-05-23 19:31:48 <michagogo> Yeah
1976 2013-05-23 19:31:53 <jouke> There isnt a getrawblock-command is there? (I would like a way to get all transactions in one go)
1977 2013-05-23 19:31:57 <gavinandresen> Using VirtualBox or kvm ?
1978 2013-05-23 19:32:08 <michagogo> But why did you say I should download the 12.04 ISO last time?
1979 2013-05-23 19:32:13 <michagogo> If 10.04 is needed for the build?
1980 2013-05-23 19:32:35 <Luke-Jr> rc1 is still deterministic
1981 2013-05-23 19:32:39 <gavinandresen> VirtualBox runs nicely on 12.04
1982 2013-05-23 19:33:08 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Wait, so you were suggesting I run a VM on my computer and then run gitian inside that VM?
1983 2013-05-23 19:33:14 <gavinandresen> … if you build kvm, then sipa is right, the gitian make-base-vm script will grab 10.04 for you
1984 2013-05-23 19:33:16 dust-otc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1985 2013-05-23 19:33:24 <gavinandresen> michagogo: no
1986 2013-05-23 19:33:47 <michagogo> gavinandresen: So why was the 12.04 ISO relevant
1987 2013-05-23 19:33:47 <michagogo> ?
1988 2013-05-23 19:34:07 phungus_ has joined
1989 2013-05-23 19:34:22 phungus_ is now known as phungi
1990 2013-05-23 19:34:41 Blackreign has joined
1991 2013-05-23 19:34:54 <gavinandresen> michagogo: If you install 10.04 as the host operating system… uhh… that would probably work.  I think.  Don't remember if it has the right kvm support, but probably does....
1992 2013-05-23 19:34:54 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: the host OS for gitian must be Gentoo, Mac, or Ubuntu.
1993 2013-05-23 19:35:09 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: so your options are to run one of those in a VM, or port it to your platform of preference.
1994 2013-05-23 19:35:24 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: inside the host, gitian will itself create a VM it controls
1995 2013-05-23 19:35:38 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: My understanding was that gitian needs hardware virtualization support, otherwise it takes a full day.
1996 2013-05-23 19:35:44 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: yes
1997 2013-05-23 19:35:54 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: nested hw virt is fun
1998 2013-05-23 19:36:02 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: have you done the VM-in-a-VM thing?  does it actually work?
1999 2013-05-23 19:36:03 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: "fun"?
2000 2013-05-23 19:36:19 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: it works, but slow and rarely (maybe monthly?) panics the kernel
2001 2013-05-23 19:36:29 <gavinandresen> ok, that doesn't fit my definition of "works"
2002 2013-05-23 19:37:24 <Luke-Jr> native definitely works better/faster
2003 2013-05-23 19:37:39 <michagogo> Okay, so if VM in a VM doesn't work... Why does that document say to get the 12.04 ISO?
2004 2013-05-23 19:37:50 quib has joined
2005 2013-05-23 19:38:25 mrkent has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2006 2013-05-23 19:38:49 <gavinandresen> michagogo: because documents become out of date.  Patches welcome to fix it....
2007 2013-05-23 19:39:25 <gavinandresen> michagogo: building that way (LXC inside a VM -- which isn't actually VM-in-a-VM) might still work, I'm not sure anybody has tried it in a long time.
2008 2013-05-23 19:40:36 <quib> hi, i would like to get in touch with the topic bitcoin and improve my programming skills by creating a pool software. did read some articles at the wiki but not sure if I understood it correctly.
2009 2013-05-23 19:41:31 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2010 2013-05-23 19:41:40 <quib> does a pool, simplified, just ask for the work from bitcoind and relays it to the miners?
2011 2013-05-23 19:42:49 <BCB> sipa for gettxoutsetinfo what value am I looking for
2012 2013-05-23 19:43:02 <quib> and then of course accept results, check them and credit shares ..
2013 2013-05-23 19:43:31 rbecker is now known as RBecker
2014 2013-05-23 19:44:17 <Luke-Jr> quib: very simplified
2015 2013-05-23 19:44:21 <BlueMatt> <mikeperry> success! I justbuilt a fully working TBB for MacOS in Gitian!
2016 2013-05-23 19:44:26 <BlueMatt> now thats interesting...
2017 2013-05-23 19:44:28 nomailing has joined
2018 2013-05-23 19:44:55 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: fully working includes determinism?
2019 2013-05-23 19:45:05 <BlueMatt> dunno, probably
2020 2013-05-23 19:45:06 Neozonz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021 2013-05-23 19:45:08 <BlueMatt> or at least close
2022 2013-05-23 19:45:12 Neozonz has joined
2023 2013-05-23 19:45:32 <BlueMatt> <mikeperry> aaaand the sha256sums match for a full rebuild on macos. mission accomplished.
2024 2013-05-23 19:45:33 <BlueMatt> yes
2025 2013-05-23 19:46:03 <BlueMatt> using https://github.com/mingwandroid/toolchain4
2026 2013-05-23 19:46:15 <BlueMatt> if anyone has tons of free time and wants to get that building bitcoin for osx...
2027 2013-05-23 19:46:20 <BCB> gavinandresen: sipa i'm trying to determine of value of the existing bitcoin money supply
2028 2013-05-23 19:46:39 <BCB> programatically
2029 2013-05-23 19:47:10 <michagogo> gavinandresen: If it's outdated, how come you were asking me to follow it?
2030 2013-05-23 19:47:10 capuchin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2031 2013-05-23 19:47:34 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: the project name of that is quite deceptive XD
2032 2013-05-23 19:47:36 capuchin has joined
2033 2013-05-23 19:47:48 <quib> ok ty so far
2034 2013-05-23 19:47:54 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: yea, not sure how mike found it
2035 2013-05-23 19:48:01 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: wow, so it is possible...
2036 2013-05-23 19:48:15 <BlueMatt> its always been possible, just...hard
2037 2013-05-23 19:48:21 <Luke-Jr> I'll have to poke at that once we fix win32 gitian
2038 2013-05-23 19:48:31 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, iirc theoretically vm in a vm should work
2039 2013-05-23 19:48:34 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: join #tor-dev on OFTC
2040 2013-05-23 19:48:53 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: and (obviously) ping mikeperry
2041 2013-05-23 19:48:57 <BCB> sipa: where did you get: 11188989.80331183
2042 2013-05-23 19:56:47 <quib> so what the miner has to do is double sha256 the data value from getwork and send it back to the pool?
2043 2013-05-23 19:57:16 TheLordOfTime has joined
2044 2013-05-23 19:57:17 <Luke-Jr> quib: getwork is deprecated, but yes
2045 2013-05-23 19:57:33 TheLordOfTime has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2046 2013-05-23 19:57:56 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2047 2013-05-23 19:58:32 Quicksilver1 has joined
2048 2013-05-23 19:59:52 TheLordOfTime has joined
2049 2013-05-23 20:00:07 tyn has joined
2050 2013-05-23 20:02:14 viperhr has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2051 2013-05-23 20:02:55 viperhr has joined
2052 2013-05-23 20:03:37 Chuky has quit (Quit: • IRcap • 8.71 •)
2053 2013-05-23 20:04:34 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2054 2013-05-23 20:04:38 <Quicksilver1> Hi there, I know this maybe isn't the place to ask but i guess you guys would know. Is there a way to check if bitcoins are stolen or not? I'm about to buy a large sum of bitcoins from someone and i would like to know if they are clean. Bitcoins can be traced right? So is there a list with 'bad' bitcoin adresses or something like that?
2055 2013-05-23 20:04:58 <optimator> are there any know issues with excesive time on the bitcoind RPC GBT call pre 0.8.2?
2056 2013-05-23 20:05:00 <MC1984> coin taint isnt a thing
2057 2013-05-23 20:05:07 Truncatem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2058 2013-05-23 20:05:11 <MC1984> if you start acting like its a thing it becomes a thing
2059 2013-05-23 20:05:13 <Luke-Jr> Quicksilver1: I don't know any services to aggregate stolen info
2060 2013-05-23 20:05:41 <Luke-Jr> optimator: AFAIK it affects all versions, including 0.8.2
2061 2013-05-23 20:06:21 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: 0.8.2rc2 will dramatically speed up gbt.
2062 2013-05-23 20:06:32 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: oh, did sipa's optimization get merged?
2063 2013-05-23 20:06:39 <Luke-Jr> sadly, it's completely incompatible with CPFP
2064 2013-05-23 20:06:51 RazielXYZ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2065 2013-05-23 20:06:55 <gmaxwell> CPFP?
2066 2013-05-23 20:06:56 <optimator> I'm not good with git, but can I pull a temp fix?
2067 2013-05-23 20:06:59 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: gbt?
2068 2013-05-23 20:07:02 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: child-pay-for-parent
2069 2013-05-23 20:07:05 <k00shi> c-plus-fuckin'-plus
2070 2013-05-23 20:07:21 <Diablo-D3> k00shi: Im glad c++ is a virgin
2071 2013-05-23 20:07:24 <k00shi> :)
2072 2013-05-23 20:07:26 <optimator> getblocktemplate
2073 2013-05-23 20:07:26 <phantomcircuit> hmm
2074 2013-05-23 20:07:26 <MC1984> child pays for parent? Thats socialism!
2075 2013-05-23 20:07:30 <Diablo-D3> no spawned child processes
2076 2013-05-23 20:07:40 <Diablo-D3> MC1984: WELCOME TO THE UNTIED STATES CIRCA I DONT GIVE A FUCK
2077 2013-05-23 20:07:44 <phantomcircuit> this is slow
2078 2013-05-23 20:07:51 SteveDekorte has quit (Quit: SteveDekorte)
2079 2013-05-23 20:07:54 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: It was, yes.
2080 2013-05-23 20:08:31 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: any idea when petertodd will get home?
2081 2013-05-23 20:08:41 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, s/socialism/ponzi scheme/
2082 2013-05-23 20:08:50 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: is living with petertodd?
2083 2013-05-23 20:09:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: No. Getting home as in home from the conference.
2084 2013-05-23 20:09:09 denisx has joined
2085 2013-05-23 20:09:14 <BlueMatt> ahh
2086 2013-05-23 20:09:33 <Luke-Jr> his replace-by-fee stuff is apparently not usable yet
2087 2013-05-23 20:09:33 <gmaxwell> He was going camping or something for I think a week. I don't recall. I think he's occasionally email reachable.
2088 2013-05-23 20:09:34 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, you stayed in a hotel?
2089 2013-05-23 20:09:41 <phantomcircuit> nvm
2090 2013-05-23 20:09:50 <phantomcircuit> lunch time..
2091 2013-05-23 20:10:55 <optimator> Luke-Jr: can I git 0.8.2rc2?
2092 2013-05-23 20:11:04 <Luke-Jr> …
2093 2013-05-23 20:11:09 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: any luck figuring out why the setup.exe is non-deterministic ?
2094 2013-05-23 20:11:13 <BCB> where can I find 0.8.2rc2
2095 2013-05-23 20:11:26 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: bisecting it now
2096 2013-05-23 20:11:34 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: awesome, thanks
2097 2013-05-23 20:11:47 <gavinandresen> BCB: we're trying to figure out why the 0.8.2rc2 builds are not matching
2098 2013-05-23 20:12:00 <BCB> ok
2099 2013-05-23 20:12:01 <BCB> sorry
2100 2013-05-23 20:12:04 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: did you say setup.exe was identical between 0.8.2rc1 and 0.8.2rc2
2101 2013-05-23 20:12:09 <gavinandresen> And we fixed two crash-on-shutdown bugs… so I think we'll skip to a 0.8.2rc3
2102 2013-05-23 20:12:18 <BlueMatt> seems...wrong, but gitian has had that bug a few times
2103 2013-05-23 20:12:21 <Diablo-D3> I just had a great idea
2104 2013-05-23 20:12:30 <Diablo-D3> write a bitcoin impl in cobol
2105 2013-05-23 20:12:30 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2106 2013-05-23 20:12:35 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: rc1 == rc1; rc2 != rc2
2107 2013-05-23 20:12:39 <Diablo-D3> go back to 1959
2108 2013-05-23 20:12:39 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, lol
2109 2013-05-23 20:12:42 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: ack, makes sense esp since we're having a bit of gitian delays.
2110 2013-05-23 20:12:43 <Diablo-D3> give it to grace hopper.
2111 2013-05-23 20:12:46 <Diablo-D3> PROFIT
2112 2013-05-23 20:12:47 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: ok, that makes more sense
2113 2013-05-23 20:12:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ack
2114 2013-05-23 20:12:55 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, bitcoin wouldn't have worked in 1959
2115 2013-05-23 20:13:05 qbasicer has joined
2116 2013-05-23 20:13:10 <Diablo-D3> oh right, al gore didnt invent the internet yet =/
2117 2013-05-23 20:13:19 czaanja has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2118 2013-05-23 20:13:26 <MC1984> bitcoin wouldnt have worked in 1999
2119 2013-05-23 20:13:42 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, actually i was thinking more that the cost of the computing power to keep track of everything was out of reach
2120 2013-05-23 20:13:52 <phantomcircuit> as MC1984 says
2121 2013-05-23 20:13:57 <Diablo-D3> btw, the best part?
2122 2013-05-23 20:14:03 <MC1984> it happened pretty much the moment it was able to
2123 2013-05-23 20:14:04 <Diablo-D3> that cobol from 1959 would still work today.
2124 2013-05-23 20:14:12 <sipa> BCB: that number is the sum of the values of all unspent transaction outputs
2125 2013-05-23 20:14:20 <Diablo-D3> fresh off the assembly line z series IBM frames still run the shit without recompilation perfectly
2126 2013-05-23 20:14:28 Aurigae has joined
2127 2013-05-23 20:14:31 <sipa> BCB: many of them are likely not actually spendable anymore due to lost keys
2128 2013-05-23 20:14:38 <sipa> BCB: but it's certainly an upper bound
2129 2013-05-23 20:14:42 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, well yes they spend millions to achieve that
2130 2013-05-23 20:14:53 <Diablo-D3> yes, and those are sexy machines
2131 2013-05-23 20:15:06 <Diablo-D3> someday I want to own a 100 rack supercomputer.
2132 2013-05-23 20:15:19 <phantomcircuit> argh
2133 2013-05-23 20:15:20 <BCB> sipa: and where did you get that number
2134 2013-05-23 20:15:32 <Diablo-D3> just massive amounts of compute power
2135 2013-05-23 20:15:33 <phantomcircuit> problem that's slow in sequence but caches it's result
2136 2013-05-23 20:15:33 <Quicksilver1> MC1984 , about tainting, yes i know. But my buyer (im a broker here) would really want to know. And since it is possible to check ,why not (but where).  and also: wouln't it disencourage hackers if they couldn't sell their coins afterwards if they are reported as stolen
2137 2013-05-23 20:15:33 <Diablo-D3> just BAM
2138 2013-05-23 20:15:37 <phantomcircuit> so it's only slow once
2139 2013-05-23 20:15:41 <k00shi> Diablo-D3: You effectively do, don't you? :)
2140 2013-05-23 20:15:43 <phantomcircuit> i could rewrite this in parallel
2141 2013-05-23 20:15:46 <Diablo-D3> k00shi: no.
2142 2013-05-23 20:15:49 <phantomcircuit> but i know it's not worth it long term
2143 2013-05-23 20:15:56 <phantomcircuit> driving me crazy
2144 2013-05-23 20:16:00 <Diablo-D3> k00shi: bitcoin still cant cure cancer.
2145 2013-05-23 20:16:04 <k00shi> Diablo-D3: Don't you run a mining pool?
2146 2013-05-23 20:16:16 <Diablo-D3> k00shi: nope.
2147 2013-05-23 20:16:22 <k00shi> My mistake :)
2148 2013-05-23 20:16:23 <Diablo-D3> and
2149 2013-05-23 20:16:24 <Diablo-D3> k00shi: bitcoin still cant cure cancer.
2150 2013-05-23 20:16:26 <MC1984> Quicksilver1 theres no way to guarantee that whoever your client deals with wont look something up and conclude the coins are "tainted" and refuse them
2151 2013-05-23 20:16:28 <k00shi> True enough.
2152 2013-05-23 20:16:41 <MC1984> but there is no central taint arbiter, and stop acting like there is.
2153 2013-05-23 20:16:46 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: the most I think about SCIP, the more convinced I become that it is impossible :x
2154 2013-05-23 20:16:52 <Luke-Jr> the more I*
2155 2013-05-23 20:17:02 <BCB> gavinandresen: i can build on Amazon Linux AMI release 2013.03 if it helps
2156 2013-05-23 20:17:15 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: what is?
2157 2013-05-23 20:17:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but curiously, if it *did* work, SCIP might allow things like help-cure-cancer proof-of-work…
2158 2013-05-23 20:17:39 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: SCIP = trusted computing without DRM
2159 2013-05-23 20:18:09 QuinnHarris has joined
2160 2013-05-23 20:18:21 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: its impossible unless you have a fully emulated cpu or hardware accelerated instruction stepping bullshit
2161 2013-05-23 20:18:33 <sipa> BCB: gettxoutsetinfo RPC
2162 2013-05-23 20:18:45 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2163 2013-05-23 20:19:09 <BCB> sipa what that is only available on 0.8.2rc2 correct?
2164 2013-05-23 20:19:41 <BCB> *but
2165 2013-05-23 20:19:53 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: well, they did say it requires a custom GCC backend..
2166 2013-05-23 20:20:02 <sipa> BCB: on rc1 as well
2167 2013-05-23 20:20:03 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Potentially.  It's important to note that SCIP doesn't capture _all_ of trusted computing (basically it captures fathful operation, but not replay prevention and only allows remote secrecy, not local secrecy), but indeed. I could imagine using it to make a POW that resists some kinds of optimization.
2168 2013-05-23 20:20:17 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: no no, its worse
2169 2013-05-23 20:20:18 <Quicksilver1> MC1984 alright i get it, a central arbiter would just centralize bitcoin and bring new problems about false reports. If we don't make a problem of it and just take good care of our bitcoins its all good. Well thanks for your time Mc1984.
2170 2013-05-23 20:20:26 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: you need a hypervisor that is known secure to do this
2171 2013-05-23 20:20:35 <Diablo-D3> you'd literally need to interrupt before every instruction
2172 2013-05-23 20:20:42 <Quicksilver1> Now only to convince my client :p
2173 2013-05-23 20:20:42 <MC1984> no problem
2174 2013-05-23 20:21:06 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: it'd actually be easier to dynamically recompile everything to run on an emulated cpu
2175 2013-05-23 20:21:38 <BCB> sipa can I get a link for that please
2176 2013-05-23 20:22:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, we don't have to resist optimization; but it would be interesting to do something useful in other ways too ☺
2177 2013-05-23 20:22:23 <Luke-Jr> (difficulty is sufficient to adapt to optimizations)
2178 2013-05-23 20:22:31 stargreen has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2179 2013-05-23 20:22:35 paracyst has joined
2180 2013-05-23 20:22:41 <sipa> BCB: link to?
2181 2013-05-23 20:22:42 <BlueMatt> hell, it would be good if it actively supported optimizations if it were doing folding or something
2182 2013-05-23 20:22:49 <QuinnHarris> I was pondering ways to allow for double spend proofs without revealing the full transactions as I now recognized problems with the scheme I suggested on the mailing list.  I have a possible solution that requires a hard fork (might not be reasonable to implement) but want to make sure I am not just missing some critical detail like I did before.
2183 2013-05-23 20:22:52 <BlueMatt> encourage people to provide results faster
2184 2013-05-23 20:23:00 <BCB> sipa RC1
2185 2013-05-23 20:23:02 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: one of the problem with "useful POW" is that most useful functions admit trapdoor optimizations.  "Factor this 'random' number for me!"  "Oh, wow, seems I'm surprisingly fast at factoring my own numbers!"
2186 2013-05-23 20:23:11 <QuinnHarris> The idea is to switch the order of the inputs and outputs in the copied transaction used by SignatureHash.  A double spend proof would consist of the serialized SHA-256 state through the output parts of the transaction then the remaining part of the transaction including all inputs.  From this the hash for the signature can be computed without revealing the contents of the outputs but validating every aspect of the inputs.
2187 2013-05-23 20:23:45 SwedFTP has joined
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2189 2013-05-23 20:23:54 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: lol
2190 2013-05-23 20:23:58 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2191 2013-05-23 20:24:00 <gmaxwell> QuinnHarris: you actually want to prove the outputs, otherwise you might as well just rip out the signature and send that.
2192 2013-05-23 20:24:02 <BlueMatt> QuinnHarris: who cares if you just announce both txn and let miners pick
2193 2013-05-23 20:24:30 <BlueMatt> QuinnHarris: yea it pseudo enables replacement, but...meh
2194 2013-05-23 20:24:33 <gmaxwell> QuinnHarris: e.g. I show a pubkey signs something twice.  The reason to let people see the outputs is so that they can see that they are still getting paid or not.
2195 2013-05-23 20:25:17 <gmaxwell> QuinnHarris: trying to hide the transaction is kind of a waste of time. If someone is going to do the unfriendly replacement thing they can just listen for connections and the attacker can give them the transactions directly.
2196 2013-05-23 20:25:19 MKCoin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2197 2013-05-23 20:25:25 <sipa> BCB: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201124.0
2198 2013-05-23 20:25:41 michagogo has quit (Quit: Wish me luck...)
2199 2013-05-23 20:26:00 <BCB> sipa: ty!
2200 2013-05-23 20:26:36 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: unfriendly replacement thing?
2201 2013-05-23 20:26:54 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: greedy replace by fee.
2202 2013-05-23 20:26:56 ll has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2203 2013-05-23 20:27:01 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I thought that was a good thing?
2204 2013-05-23 20:27:08 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: maybe?
2205 2013-05-23 20:27:12 <BCB> can I run two version of bitcoind on the same box and if YES, how?
2206 2013-05-23 20:27:17 <QuinnHarris> I didn't think it was a complete waste of time in the case that most of the network won't forward the second transaction the attacker would have to specifically find and forward the transaction to miners that will replace the original.
2207 2013-05-23 20:27:24 <Luke-Jr> BCB: change the ports
2208 2013-05-23 20:27:31 <Luke-Jr> and datadir
2209 2013-05-23 20:27:38 <BCB> kk
2210 2013-05-23 20:27:39 <BCB> thx
2211 2013-05-23 20:27:57 <gmaxwell> QuinnHarris: quite easy to forward a transaction to all public nodes, and presumably parties doing replacement would advertise the fact like: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy
2212 2013-05-23 20:27:59 <QuinnHarris> That said, its probably not worth a hard fork
2213 2013-05-23 20:28:21 ll has joined
2214 2013-05-23 20:29:31 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: and only the bad guys would do that most likely
2215 2013-05-23 20:29:50 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2216 2013-05-23 20:30:25 Krellan_ has joined
2217 2013-05-23 20:30:52 <QuinnHarris> Yeah its probably fools game to try to hide the second one
2218 2013-05-23 20:31:00 darkczar has joined
2219 2013-05-23 20:32:38 lolcookie___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2220 2013-05-23 20:32:58 lolcookie__ has joined
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2222 2013-05-23 20:33:41 rdymac has quit (Changing host)
2223 2013-05-23 20:33:41 rdymac has joined
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2225 2013-05-23 20:35:22 <BCB> Luke-Jr: so rc1 is save to run if I back up my wallet, yet?
2226 2013-05-23 20:35:26 rng29a has joined
2227 2013-05-23 20:35:26 rng29a has quit (Changing host)
2228 2013-05-23 20:35:26 rng29a has joined
2229 2013-05-23 20:35:29 <BCB> *safe
2230 2013-05-23 20:35:37 nsillik has joined
2231 2013-05-23 20:35:49 <Luke-Jr> BCB: I have no idea what you're trying to do, or anything O.o
2232 2013-05-23 20:35:59 <BCB> test rc1
2233 2013-05-23 20:36:06 <BlueMatt> BCB: rc1 isnt gonna steal your wallet, so yes
2234 2013-05-23 20:36:06 <sipa> well, test rc2 please...
2235 2013-05-23 20:36:17 <sipa> rc2 has fixes for several known issues in rc1
2236 2013-05-23 20:36:19 <BCB> sipa: link please!!
2237 2013-05-23 20:36:25 <BlueMatt> actually, test master
2238 2013-05-23 20:36:29 <BCB> ok
2239 2013-05-23 20:36:37 <sipa> master == rc2 for now
2240 2013-05-23 20:36:43 <BlueMatt> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/
2241 2013-05-23 20:37:00 <BCB> BlueMatt that is rc2??
2242 2013-05-23 20:37:07 <BlueMatt> that is master
2243 2013-05-23 20:37:13 <BCB> kk
2244 2013-05-23 20:37:29 <BlueMatt> in fact, that link is /always/ master
2245 2013-05-23 20:37:36 <BlueMatt> well, +/- an hour or two (or if it breaks...)
2246 2013-05-23 20:38:23 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2247 2013-05-23 20:38:33 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: bisect accuses the icons somehow O.o
2248 2013-05-23 20:38:43 <Luke-Jr> testing with that reverted to confirm
2249 2013-05-23 20:38:44 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, lol
2250 2013-05-23 20:39:29 <BCB> BlueMatt bitcoin-qt or bitcoin-qt test
2251 2013-05-23 20:39:43 <sipa> bitcoin-qt
2252 2013-05-23 20:40:16 <BCB> kk
2253 2013-05-23 20:40:27 <sipa> kk = M
2254 2013-05-23 20:40:45 <BlueMatt> kk == ok
2255 2013-05-23 20:41:02 aadce520e20c2899 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2256 2013-05-23 20:41:30 <phantomcircuit> vout in getrawtransaction 1 has an "addresses" field
2257 2013-05-23 20:41:44 <BCB> sipa so how do I install that
2258 2013-05-23 20:41:53 <sipa> BCB: you just run it
2259 2013-05-23 20:41:53 <phantomcircuit> in what situation would multiple addresses be receiving the same output?
2260 2013-05-23 20:42:01 <BCB> sipa:  on linux??
2261 2013-05-23 20:42:03 <sipa> phantomcircuit: non-P2SH multisig
2262 2013-05-23 20:42:10 <sipa> BCB: yes
2263 2013-05-23 20:42:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you make sure the key you are using to sign gitian builds is the same as in contrib/gitian-downloader? it looks lit it wasnt for 0.8.1
2264 2013-05-23 20:42:20 <BlueMatt> (same goes for everyone)
2265 2013-05-23 20:42:24 <sipa> BlueMatt: huh?
2266 2013-05-23 20:42:38 <BlueMatt> the gpg key you are using, looks like you're using a subkey or something
2267 2013-05-23 20:42:44 <BlueMatt> s/gpg/pgp/
2268 2013-05-23 20:42:46 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: icons… wheeeeee!   Maybe NSIS is resizing them or something…..
2269 2013-05-23 20:42:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: duh
2270 2013-05-23 20:42:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: my master key cannot sign
2271 2013-05-23 20:43:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: please fix contrib/gitian-downloader then
2272 2013-05-23 20:43:24 <sipa> how?
2273 2013-05-23 20:43:34 <sipa> identities are linked to the master key
2274 2013-05-23 20:43:39 <BlueMatt> replace the config files with your appropriate --fingerprint
2275 2013-05-23 20:43:47 <BlueMatt> I think
2276 2013-05-23 20:44:01 <sipa> hmm, i don't have access to my private key here
2277 2013-05-23 20:44:16 <BlueMatt> you dont need it, just the pubkey should do (if you know which one you're using for signing)
2278 2013-05-23 20:44:24 <BlueMatt> (dont you leave your workstation on to ssh into?)
2279 2013-05-23 20:45:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: i haven't had a working desktop system for 2 years
2280 2013-05-23 20:45:24 <BlueMatt> and you didnt bring your laptop to the us?
2281 2013-05-23 20:45:37 <sipa> no, only work laptop
2282 2013-05-23 20:45:42 davout has joined
2283 2013-05-23 20:45:46 <BlueMatt> ahh
2284 2013-05-23 20:45:53 <sipa> anyway, it's incorrect to put the subkey fingerprint in there
2285 2013-05-23 20:46:00 <sipa> the subkey can change, without the identity changing
2286 2013-05-23 20:46:02 <warren> gmaxwell: I am seeing those assertion failures at shutdown with rebased litecoind based on 0.8.2rc1 too.  I also see Looping "Flushed 12035 addresses to peers.dat  38ms" messages forever after *coin-Qt is told to Exit. kill -9 required to kill it.  Not sure if it happens with *coind.
2287 2013-05-23 20:46:14 <warren> gmaxwell: no GBT calls here
2288 2013-05-23 20:46:17 <sipa> (i'll change it if it's not feasible to fix that now, but it sounds wrong)
2289 2013-05-23 20:46:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, fix gitian-downloader then?
2290 2013-05-23 20:47:17 ProfMac has joined
2291 2013-05-23 20:48:43 Thepok has joined
2292 2013-05-23 20:48:51 <sipa> where is it?
2293 2013-05-23 20:50:16 <BlueMatt> gitian-builder/share/gitian_updater.py
2294 2013-05-23 20:52:12 viperhr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2295 2013-05-23 20:52:39 <sipa> is that important that it's fixed now?
2296 2013-05-23 20:52:45 <sipa> we're not actually using that yet, are we?
2297 2013-05-23 20:52:59 <BlueMatt> no, but we really need to be pushing that...
2298 2013-05-23 20:53:25 <sipa> i thought the idea was that there were some features necessary first
2299 2013-05-23 20:53:25 <BlueMatt> anyway, I'd like to look into removing exe sigs this weekend so that it can
2300 2013-05-23 20:53:26 viperhr has joined
2301 2013-05-23 20:53:31 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: confirmed: master plus reverting icons is deterministic
2302 2013-05-23 20:53:32 <BlueMatt> and ifyou dont have time I can try then
2303 2013-05-23 20:53:33 sanchaz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2304 2013-05-23 20:53:43 <BlueMatt> all I know of that its missing is removing exe sigs
2305 2013-05-23 20:53:44 yano has quit (Quit: WeeChat, The Better IRC Client: http://weechat.org/)
2306 2013-05-23 20:53:46 <sipa> like negative weight, and fetching from different sources
2307 2013-05-23 20:54:07 <BlueMatt> that is more "it would be nice to have" but gitian_updater is strictly better than what we have now
2308 2013-05-23 20:54:08 <BlueMatt> (by far)
2309 2013-05-23 20:55:13 <BCB> why are the cmds not in alph order when you run bitcoind --help
2310 2013-05-23 20:55:34 yano has joined
2311 2013-05-23 20:56:09 <BCB> nm
2312 2013-05-23 20:56:15 <phantomcircuit> BCB, help is an rpc command
2313 2013-05-23 20:56:21 <phantomcircuit> er
2314 2013-05-23 20:56:23 <phantomcircuit> nvm wrong help
2315 2013-05-23 20:56:28 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't know
2316 2013-05-23 20:56:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: i thought the idea was just some checker that fetches signatures and warns you when a new version is available
2317 2013-05-23 20:57:22 <warren> How long will gitian be based on that old version of Ubuntu?
2318 2013-05-23 20:57:39 <BCB> phantomcircuit: just realized there are two help commands  "help" and "--help"
2319 2013-05-23 20:57:52 <BlueMatt> warren: until someone changes it?
2320 2013-05-23 20:57:54 <sipa> BCB: help is just a regular RPC, it's not a command
2321 2013-05-23 20:58:00 <BlueMatt> warren: (its not a gitian thing, its a bitcoin thing, its just a setting)
2322 2013-05-23 20:58:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: ?
2323 2013-05-23 20:58:08 <sipa> BCB: it sends the "help" RPC to the remote server, and posts the answer
2324 2013-05-23 20:58:09 <BCB> sipa ya ya
2325 2013-05-23 20:58:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: you can do that easily with gitian_updater...see the like year-old win32 auto-update pull?
2326 2013-05-23 20:58:22 <BCB> sipa: what remote server
2327 2013-05-23 20:58:27 <BCB> I'm running this on my own box
2328 2013-05-23 20:58:37 <BCB> from cmd
2329 2013-05-23 20:58:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: not a separate python script i mean
2330 2013-05-23 20:58:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: and not downloading things or auto-updating
2331 2013-05-23 20:58:55 <BlueMatt> what?
2332 2013-05-23 20:58:58 <BlueMatt> what do you want?
2333 2013-05-23 20:59:53 <sipa> just something that says "new version available, click here to install"
2334 2013-05-23 20:59:55 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
2335 2013-05-23 20:59:59 <BCB> sipa: do I have to change the permission of bitcoin-qt (rc2) to run it??
2336 2013-05-23 21:00:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: and how is that not possible with gitian_updater?
2337 2013-05-23 21:00:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: also, why have I not heard these complaints before?
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2342 2013-05-23 21:00:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: dunno, i always assumed that was the idea
2343 2013-05-23 21:01:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: again though, how is that different from gitian_updater?
2344 2013-05-23 21:01:54 <warren> BlueMatt: I suppose building it in that old Ubuntu allows the binary to run on many platforms that are newer than it?
2345 2013-05-23 21:02:23 davout has left ()
2346 2013-05-23 21:02:24 <BlueMatt> warren: afaik the only reason is to get easy access to bdb 4.8 on linux
2347 2013-05-23 21:02:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: that's just my personal opinion, and if others disagree, fine, but i *really* dislike relying on python for something that sensitive
2348 2013-05-23 21:02:49 <BlueMatt> on a related note, is anyone planning on a non-bdb wallet format in the next few versions, otherwise can we upgrade to bdb 5.1?
2349 2013-05-23 21:03:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh...you want to rewrite it in...what? C++ as a part of bitcoind?
2350 2013-05-23 21:03:47 <BlueMatt> doesnt that defeat the purpose of using gitian if we're just gonna rewrite it
2351 2013-05-23 21:03:50 macboz has joined
2352 2013-05-23 21:03:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: how so?
2353 2013-05-23 21:04:04 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: original reason was "use as old a Linux as possible for maximum binary compatibility"
2354 2013-05-23 21:04:23 <warren> gavinandresen: yeah, that's what I asked, thanks.
2355 2013-05-23 21:04:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: but yes, i'd certainly prefer it in C++ in bitcoind
2356 2013-05-23 21:04:28 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: older release means less chance there is a bitcoin-specific backdoor, too....
2357 2013-05-23 21:04:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: again, just my opinion
2358 2013-05-23 21:05:04 <warren> gavinandresen: hey, have you folks seen the assertion failures at 0.8.2.rc* shutdown, and Looping "Flushed 12035 addresses to peers.dat  38ms" messages forever after *coin-Qt is told to Exit. kill -9 required?
2359 2013-05-23 21:05:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: i can see the reason for having a nice separate script, but relying on python/ruby just scares me
2360 2013-05-23 21:05:13 CodeShark has joined
2361 2013-05-23 21:06:15 <BCB> ./bitcoin-qt: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.0.9.8
2362 2013-05-23 21:06:28 <warren> gavinandresen: static linking libraries from those old releases might also pull in old, unpatched libraries that lack newer security fixes?
2363 2013-05-23 21:06:31 daughterly has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2364 2013-05-23 21:07:23 <phantomcircuit> sipa, what about python scares you?
2365 2013-05-23 21:07:54 <helo> their ability to crush
2366 2013-05-23 21:08:03 SteveDekorte has joined
2367 2013-05-23 21:08:17 <phantomcircuit> helo, that is a terrible joke
2368 2013-05-23 21:08:18 viperhr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2369 2013-05-23 21:08:20 <phantomcircuit> very punny
2370 2013-05-23 21:08:21 <helo> ;(
2371 2013-05-23 21:08:26 viperhr has joined
2372 2013-05-23 21:08:33 <sipa> phantomcircuit: ugly dependency... i don't see how you'd run it on windows without either packaging python with bitcoin, or converting the script to a binary, defeating the purpose of it being a script
2373 2013-05-23 21:09:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: but still... i thought the plan was to have things like negative votes, multiple sources, slowed rollout, before doing any version checking
2374 2013-05-23 21:09:08 <helo> i've been happy with py2exe + innosetup
2375 2013-05-23 21:09:08 mE\Ta has joined
2376 2013-05-23 21:11:37 <phantomcircuit> getrawtransaction seems to be taking 60 ms
2377 2013-05-23 21:11:43 <phantomcircuit> that seems like an awefully long time
2378 2013-05-23 21:12:19 <BCB> can...run.... bitcoin-qt ...rc2 ...on ...linux
2379 2013-05-23 21:12:28 <BCB> any advice
2380 2013-05-23 21:12:38 gruvfunk has quit (Excess Flood)
2381 2013-05-23 21:14:38 <helo> have fun?
2382 2013-05-23 21:14:53 <helo> i suspect you meant "can't"...
2383 2013-05-23 21:16:08 <helo> BCB: are you compiling, or running the binary from the tarball?
2384 2013-05-23 21:16:19 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ehhh, no not really, it was to get bdb 4.8 (Im the one who set it to lucid, or devrandom iirc....)
2385 2013-05-23 21:17:04 <BCB> helo: i ran wget on http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/bitcoin-qt
2386 2013-05-23 21:17:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, negative votes, multiple sources, etc were discussed
2387 2013-05-23 21:17:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: but I dont think anyone thinks that is a blocker to checking multiple sigs
2388 2013-05-23 21:17:54 mrkent has joined
2389 2013-05-23 21:18:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: I share your dislike of python to some extent, but I see nothing wrong with at least making sure gitian_downloader works on bitcoin
2390 2013-05-23 21:18:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: older is nicer to some extent, but 4.8 is what kept us from upgrading
2391 2013-05-23 21:18:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: so, how do you envision things work; i'm a windows user that runs bitcoin 0.8.1, and 0.8.2 has just been released
2392 2013-05-23 21:18:42 <sipa> BlueMatt: what happens?
2393 2013-05-23 21:18:43 <helo> BCB: that isn't statically linked... i'm pretty sure the actual release will be
2394 2013-05-23 21:18:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: even if we dont ship it with bitcoind, replacing the verify.sh with "go use gitian_updater" would be nice
2395 2013-05-23 21:19:05 <BCB> helo: so how do I test
2396 2013-05-23 21:19:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: I dont expect it to work at all
2397 2013-05-23 21:19:09 <BCB> ?
2398 2013-05-23 21:19:16 <helo> is that jenkins lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/bitcoin-qt supposed to be statically linked?
2399 2013-05-23 21:19:24 <sipa> BlueMatt: so what is the plan?
2400 2013-05-23 21:19:26 <helo> (so that it behaves more like an actual release)
2401 2013-05-23 21:19:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: or what are you arguing for now
2402 2013-05-23 21:20:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: I wrote the auto-update stuff like a year ago and left it and no one has given updating a second glance...during that time the willingness to release with only one or two sigs has gone from "meh" to "we always do..."
2403 2013-05-23 21:20:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: mostly I just want to provide that option
2404 2013-05-23 21:20:22 <BlueMatt> I highly doubt anyone is gonna tackle auto-updating any time soon
2405 2013-05-23 21:20:55 ThomasV has joined
2406 2013-05-23 21:21:07 <helo> BCB: past rc's i've tested are distributed just like a release, which are statically linked to preclude the installation of various dependencies... lacking that, i'm not sure
2407 2013-05-23 21:21:09 <sipa> BlueMatt: i mean, why are you now asking for being compatible with gitan-downloader, if not to provide some auto-updating system?
2408 2013-05-23 21:21:47 <BlueMatt> to replace contrib/verifysfbinaries/verify.sh
2409 2013-05-23 21:22:06 <BlueMatt> and for those who usually verify sigs
2410 2013-05-23 21:22:11 <BlueMatt> (all one of them)
2411 2013-05-23 21:22:31 <sipa> right
2412 2013-05-23 21:22:34 <BlueMatt> so that they can get a secure download instead of just gavin's code signing key (which conveniently isnt actually signed by anyone else except gavin...)
2413 2013-05-23 21:22:43 <sipa> i never saw that as an intermediate goal. but that is useful indeed
2414 2013-05-23 21:22:44 <beethoven8201> are there services that allow you to store information in the blockchain? (or linux tools?)
2415 2013-05-23 21:23:04 <BCB> helo: ok
2416 2013-05-23 21:23:12 <BlueMatt> beethoven8201: there are far, far, far, far better places to store data
2417 2013-05-23 21:23:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: in that aspect, it's a strict improvement over what we have, agree
2418 2013-05-23 21:23:16 <BlueMatt> (and less expensive...)
2419 2013-05-23 21:23:29 Skav has joined
2420 2013-05-23 21:23:29 <SteveDekorte> what's the fastest way to determine if a given block contains a txout address?
2421 2013-05-23 21:23:34 <BCB> helo:  so far I'm getting ./bitcoin-qt: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2422 2013-05-23 21:23:37 <beethoven8201> BlueMatt: I'm okay with paying 1 cent / byte or something
2423 2013-05-23 21:23:42 <phantomcircuit> oh wow
2424 2013-05-23 21:23:48 <phantomcircuit> 60 ms for json decode
2425 2013-05-23 21:23:50 <phantomcircuit> that is just
2426 2013-05-23 21:23:50 <phantomcircuit> wat
2427 2013-05-23 21:23:51 <sipa> beethoven8201: to me? you're going to store something on MY disk
2428 2013-05-23 21:24:03 <beethoven8201> to the blockchain =x
2429 2013-05-23 21:24:16 <CodeShark> beethoven8201: such applications of bitcoin are highly discouraged here
2430 2013-05-23 21:24:20 <BCB> beethoven8201: start your own "store"chain
2431 2013-05-23 21:24:26 <sipa> beethoven8201: well, i store the blockchain because i consider a decentralized payment system valuable
2432 2013-05-23 21:24:32 welovecp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2433 2013-05-23 21:24:43 <sipa> beethoven8201: if you start spamming it, i may stop doing that, as it becomes more costly
2434 2013-05-23 21:24:43 <BlueMatt> beethoven8201: yes...and if you are willing to do so, there are far better places to store things (that provide better access, cheaper storage, and guarnateed access all at once, whereas bitcoin doesnt provide any of those.....)
2435 2013-05-23 21:24:51 <CodeShark> BCB: make sure the library is in your libpath
2436 2013-05-23 21:24:53 <sipa> beethoven8201: making bitcoin less useful for everyone
2437 2013-05-23 21:25:02 Micha has joined
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2439 2013-05-23 21:25:23 <beethoven8201> sipa: really is it bad to pay to store a few bytes? =/
2440 2013-05-23 21:25:31 <BlueMatt> yes!
2441 2013-05-23 21:25:33 <sipa> beethoven8201: but the point is you're not paying me!
2442 2013-05-23 21:25:40 <SteveDekorte> I've seen the bloom filter for peer connections - has attaching a bloom filter to each block been considered?
2443 2013-05-23 21:25:41 <helo> BCB: you'll need to install libssl0.9.8 (if ubuntu), as well as libdb4.8++ (unless you're on ubuntu 13.04, which doesn't offer it)
2444 2013-05-23 21:25:41 <sipa> beethoven8201: it's like saying that taking my computer from my home is OK because the door was unlocked
2445 2013-05-23 21:25:46 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2446 2013-05-23 21:25:46 <helo> BCB: and some other deps
2447 2013-05-23 21:25:58 <BlueMatt> also, you arent storing a few bytes, you are in current implementations, but down the road your data may disappear
2448 2013-05-23 21:25:59 <beethoven8201> =/
2449 2013-05-23 21:26:04 <BlueMatt> and there goes your great storage mechanism...
2450 2013-05-23 21:26:07 <BCB> helo hmmm but I can run other versions of qt
2451 2013-05-23 21:26:13 <sipa> beethoven8201: you're asking everyone in the world to store your few bytes forever
2452 2013-05-23 21:26:25 <sipa> beethoven8201: do you have any idea how much that would cost if you'd actually pay for it?
2453 2013-05-23 21:26:27 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: that doesnt make sense...
2454 2013-05-23 21:26:34 <CodeShark> would be nice to up the cost of sticking arbitrary data into the block chain
2455 2013-05-23 21:26:35 <sipa> instead of relying on people's charity
2456 2013-05-23 21:26:36 <helo> must be qt4, not sure if different subreleases work
2457 2013-05-23 21:26:40 gruvfunk has joined
2458 2013-05-23 21:26:45 <beethoven8201> sipa: got it
2459 2013-05-23 21:27:15 <BlueMatt> beethoven8201: and to answer your original question, no, there are no known tools which in any way assist you in storing data in the chain
2460 2013-05-23 21:27:23 icellan has joined
2461 2013-05-23 21:27:28 <sipa> lol
2462 2013-05-23 21:27:30 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: it doesn't need to be propogated in the block packet but it would be nice if the servers used them to support fast block queries
2463 2013-05-23 21:27:44 <sipa> SteveDekorte: what's the point of having a filter in the block?
2464 2013-05-23 21:27:55 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2465 2013-05-23 21:27:55 <sipa> what would it speed up?
2466 2013-05-23 21:27:56 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: if you are talking about filtering blocks, then yes we already do that
2467 2013-05-23 21:28:00 <SteveDekorte> sipa: like I said, it doesn't have to be *in* the block
2468 2013-05-23 21:28:02 <helo> BCB: if you follow a guide to compile bitcoin-qt in ubuntu, it should set you up with the requirements
2469 2013-05-23 21:28:07 <sipa> SteveDekorte: then what are you proposing?
2470 2013-05-23 21:28:14 <BlueMatt> but I think you by far need to clarify wtf you are proposing
2471 2013-05-23 21:28:34 <sipa> afk
2472 2013-05-23 21:28:35 sipa has left ()
2473 2013-05-23 21:28:37 <BCB> helo ok.  I should switch over
2474 2013-05-23 21:28:39 <helo> BCB: minus the actual compilation step, i guess
2475 2013-05-23 21:28:45 <BlueMatt> wat...skipa disconnected his bouncer???
2476 2013-05-23 21:28:56 <SteveDekorte> sipa: I was originally asking how to do fast block queries and wondering if bloom filters are (or might be) supported
2477 2013-05-23 21:28:59 <BlueMatt> this is unacceptable!
2478 2013-05-23 21:29:11 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: quering what for what?
2479 2013-05-23 21:29:39 ngc0202 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2480 2013-05-23 21:29:52 ngc0202 has joined
2481 2013-05-23 21:30:12 <helo> BlueMatt: payment to a particular address, i think
2482 2013-05-23 21:30:12 resinate has joined
2483 2013-05-23 21:30:37 <BlueMatt> thats already there, depending on how you look at it...
2484 2013-05-23 21:30:55 <helo> not part of the block, but readily available from peers?
2485 2013-05-23 21:31:17 <BCB> helo I'm on CentOS release 5.8 (Final)
2486 2013-05-23 21:31:28 <BlueMatt> if you want to know if a block pays out to an address, thats exactly what the bloom filter stuff is designed to do
2487 2013-05-23 21:31:39 <helo> are there no statically linked rc2 binaries up somewhere?
2488 2013-05-23 21:31:53 <BlueMatt> helo: are the jenkins ones not?
2489 2013-05-23 21:31:58 forsetifox has left ()
2490 2013-05-23 21:31:59 <helo> BCB: it woudl be a shame for you to have to switch to ubuntu to test rc2... centos 5.8 probably needs more testing than ubuntu
2491 2013-05-23 21:31:59 <BlueMatt> I suppose I may not have enabled that...hmmm
2492 2013-05-23 21:32:02 <helo> BlueMatt: nope
2493 2013-05-23 21:32:13 <BlueMatt> well, ping me tomorrow and I'll fix it
2494 2013-05-23 21:32:19 <helo> BCB: ^
2495 2013-05-23 21:32:20 <BCB> helo: is that a joke
2496 2013-05-23 21:32:40 <helo> BCB: no. ~everybody tests on ubuntu
2497 2013-05-23 21:32:52 <BCB> ok
2498 2013-05-23 21:33:03 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: well, one option is that the filter could be over the whole block and depending on the hash functions used, could be used to get a small set of possible block matches on for any sufficiently long sequence bytes - could be txin, txout, tx, etc
2499 2013-05-23 21:33:06 <BCB> but it's like a real science project to get anything running on centos
2500 2013-05-23 21:33:06 * BlueMatt doesnt understand how anyone can stand to use ubuntu as a daily desktop environment, really...
2501 2013-05-23 21:33:07 <BCB> !!
2502 2013-05-23 21:33:08 <gribble> Error: "!" is not a valid command.
2503 2013-05-23 21:33:18 <BCB> BlueMatt what do you use
2504 2013-05-23 21:33:20 <helo> BCB: so wait until tomorrow and then bug BlueMatt about enabling static builds on rc2
2505 2013-05-23 21:33:29 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: oh, you mean a filter that lets you get a list of blocks instead of filter out a single block?
2506 2013-05-23 21:33:37 <BCB> helo: I'm going to try to load the dependencies
2507 2013-05-23 21:33:40 <BCB> on centos
2508 2013-05-23 21:33:56 <SteveDekorte> right, it would return a set of block hashes that may contain false positives
2509 2013-05-23 21:34:05 <BlueMatt> BCB: arch for os, though I still havent found a desktop environment I like...still cinnamon is far better than unity
2510 2013-05-23 21:34:38 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: that doesnt make too much sense at the p2p layer, plus relying on your peers to provide that is kinda ugly, just keep your own db if you need that info
2511 2013-05-23 21:35:19 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: (if you are on a limited computer (eg phone) and need to check out a privkey, you really need to have a creation time and then just bloom filter sync blocks since then, which is really quite easy)
2512 2013-05-23 21:35:22 <BlueMatt> anyway...
2513 2013-05-23 21:35:23 * BlueMatt -> off
2514 2013-05-23 21:35:31 <Scrat> BCB are you actually running centos as a desktop os?
2515 2013-05-23 21:35:50 <BCB> scrat server
2516 2013-05-23 21:36:23 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: I was thinking it would be a nice bitcoind feature for folks using bitcoind to implement payment systems
2517 2013-05-23 21:36:35 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: I agree that it isn't needed for the network itself
2518 2013-05-23 21:36:49 <BlueMatt> ahh, well...meh feature creep much at that point really
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2520 2013-05-23 21:37:00 <Scrat> BCB ditch it and install something debian based
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2523 2013-05-23 21:39:44 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: it's a bit of an awkward situation when people say "write another node if you want to do X" while at the same time saying bitcoind's source is the docs and you may need to replicate it's bugs if you want a custom node to work
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2526 2013-05-23 21:40:56 <BlueMatt> SteveDekorte: no one said you had to write a full verification to keep a db of transactions indexed by whatever the hell you liked, just that you should let bitcoind do the actual verification
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2532 2013-05-23 21:43:19 <BCB> Scrat: I would like too but I have some legacy stuff I have to roll over first
2533 2013-05-23 21:43:32 <BCB> Scrat: it is actually a pretty solid box
2534 2013-05-23 21:43:33 <SteveDekorte> BlueMatt: yes, that's the current solution - it just seems a shame for everyone to reimplement this stuff - maybe an open source bitcoin-db project that uses bitcoind that way would be helpful
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2541 2013-05-23 21:52:55 <BCB> how do you start bitcoind on ubuntu
2542 2013-05-23 21:53:59 <Scrat> is it the packaged version?
2543 2013-05-23 21:54:02 <Scrat> start bitcoind
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2545 2013-05-23 21:55:43 <BCB> scrat thx
2546 2013-05-23 21:56:58 <BCB> how do I tell what version of bitcoind is installed on ubuntu
2547 2013-05-23 21:57:19 <jaakkos> BCB: apt-cache policy bitcoin-qt
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2550 2013-05-23 21:58:38 <BCB> jaakkos: ty
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2562 2013-05-23 22:02:28 <BCB> Couldn't find any package by regex 'libssl.so.0.9.8' on ubuntu
2563 2013-05-23 22:05:04 <BCB> BlueMatt bitcoin-qt is looking for libssl.so.0.9.8 but I have libssl.so.1.0.0 installed and it is failing
2564 2013-05-23 22:05:10 <BCB> rc2
2565 2013-05-23 22:05:12 gst has joined
2566 2013-05-23 22:05:14 sacredchao has joined
2567 2013-05-23 22:06:19 <BCB> BlueMatt on Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS
2568 2013-05-23 22:06:31 beethoven8201 has joined
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2570 2013-05-23 22:06:40 beethoven8201 has joined
2571 2013-05-23 22:08:37 <jaakkos> BCB: did you install bitcoin-qt from package manager? which repository did you use? (did you add something to /etc/apt/sources.list ?)
2572 2013-05-23 22:09:08 t2che has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2573 2013-05-23 22:09:45 <jaakkos> (this discussion would be better suited for #bitcoin but it's not like there is anything else going on right now)
2574 2013-05-23 22:10:08 systemParanoid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2575 2013-05-23 22:10:11 McKay has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2576 2013-05-23 22:10:22 McKay has joined
2577 2013-05-23 22:10:30 <BCB> jaakkos: ok  I'm want to help test but clearly there are barriers to entry =-(
2578 2013-05-23 22:10:58 rng29a has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2579 2013-05-23 22:11:33 <BCB> jaakkos: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=nHTkNKTN
2580 2013-05-23 22:11:37 Skav has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2581 2013-05-23 22:12:06 MobPhone has joined
2582 2013-05-23 22:12:51 <jaakkos> ok, launchpad ppa. what ubuntu is this? lsb_release -a
2583 2013-05-23 22:13:20 <jaakkos> but hey it is not installed
2584 2013-05-23 22:14:07 iwilcox_ has joined
2585 2013-05-23 22:14:47 tsche has joined
2586 2013-05-23 22:14:48 <jaakkos> BCB: are you attempting to run a development build?
2587 2013-05-23 22:15:19 <BCB> jaakkos: yes rc2
2588 2013-05-23 22:15:31 <jaakkos> yeah i just read backlog
2589 2013-05-23 22:15:54 <jaakkos> also ubuntu is 12.04.2 LTS
2590 2013-05-23 22:15:57 <BCB> ya
2591 2013-05-23 22:16:22 <jaakkos> then apt-cache etc. are not relevant
2592 2013-05-23 22:17:03 iwilcox has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2593 2013-05-23 22:21:48 <jaakkos> BCB: did you build it with make?
2594 2013-05-23 22:21:53 Guest25836 has joined
2595 2013-05-23 22:22:17 <knotwork> I am seeing huge numbers of orphan transactions being stored right now
2596 2013-05-23 22:22:20 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2597 2013-05-23 22:22:29 <knotwork> stored orphan tx 921c9f93e280e41ec46675ecc42d3f4ddc4d2e3c202bfb7ddba129c077ee7e1e (mapsz 689)
2598 2013-05-23 22:22:32 <knotwork> for example
2599 2013-05-23 22:22:35 <BCB> jaakkos I did not build anything yest
2600 2013-05-23 22:22:36 Guest25836 has quit (Client Quit)
2601 2013-05-23 22:22:37 <BCB> yet
2602 2013-05-23 22:22:40 <knotwork> is something going weird?
2603 2013-05-23 22:23:01 <jaakkos> BCB: well, you should. it sounds like you are running a binary that is incompatible with your system
2604 2013-05-23 22:23:02 welovecp has quit (Ping timeout: 275 seconds)
2605 2013-05-23 22:23:05 quib has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2606 2013-05-23 22:23:06 Ashaman has joined
2607 2013-05-23 22:23:16 <knotwork> "blocks" : 237375
2608 2013-05-23 22:23:30 <knotwork> "errors" : "Warning: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."
2609 2013-05-23 22:23:38 <knotwork> Am I way behind the chain?
2610 2013-05-23 22:23:44 <MC1984> !blocks
2611 2013-05-23 22:23:44 <gribble> 237586
2612 2013-05-23 22:23:52 <Cusipzzz> yes
2613 2013-05-23 22:24:08 DBordello has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2614 2013-05-23 22:24:09 <knotwork> ok so maybe my enighbors are just giving me transactions in reverse order or something
2615 2013-05-23 22:24:29 <jaakkos> knotwork: what bitcoin version are you running
2616 2013-05-23 22:24:29 tsche has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2617 2013-05-23 22:24:53 tsche has joined
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2619 2013-05-23 22:25:00 <knotwork>     "version" : 80199,
2620 2013-05-23 22:25:00 <knotwork>     "protocolversion" : 70001,
2621 2013-05-23 22:25:00 <knotwork>     "walletversion" : 10500,
2622 2013-05-23 22:25:24 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: upload debug.log somewhere
2623 2013-05-23 22:26:28 <knotwork> I started the daemon not long ago so most of the log will be from previous times that it was running
2624 2013-05-23 22:26:32 Skav has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2625 2013-05-23 22:26:43 <knotwork> would they be useful or just since this latest start?
2626 2013-05-23 22:26:50 Skav has joined
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2633 2013-05-23 22:28:30 * michagogo is now running on Ubuntu
2634 2013-05-23 22:28:50 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2635 2013-05-23 22:29:25 <michagogo> Now what?
2636 2013-05-23 22:29:39 <michagogo> gavinandresen: You still around?
2637 2013-05-23 22:30:42 iwilcox has joined
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2641 2013-05-23 22:32:23 <knotwork> ERROR: Non-canonical signature: R value negative
2642 2013-05-23 22:32:23 <knotwork> ERROR: CScriptCheck() : a962663417b14d576f656ccbfb0776b70b2d83559a1dafc5ef3527f37a4134c3 VerifySignature failed
2643 2013-05-23 22:32:23 <knotwork> ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : ConnectInputs failed a962663417b14d576f656ccbfb0776b70b2d83559a1dafc5ef3527f37a4134c3
2644 2013-05-23 22:32:23 <knotwork> Misbehaving: 76.73.57.126:8333 (0 -> 0)
2645 2013-05-23 22:32:40 <knotwork> Is that normal?
2646 2013-05-23 22:32:50 lolcookie__ has joined
2647 2013-05-23 22:32:52 <lianj> yes-ish
2648 2013-05-23 22:32:58 iwilcox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2649 2013-05-23 22:33:20 <michagogo> Hmm, I guess I missed gavin while I was getting this set up...
2650 2013-05-23 22:33:23 <knotwork> ok good as its happening a few times it seems
2651 2013-05-23 22:33:24 <gmaxwell> It's normal.
2652 2013-05-23 22:33:31 Diapolis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2653 2013-05-23 22:33:50 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Do you know what to do next for the build?
2654 2013-05-23 22:33:52 <knotwork> Maybe a neighbor is experimenting putting out weird and orphaned transactions
2655 2013-05-23 22:34:34 <gmaxwell> knotwork: no, it's just some broken implementation which produces crappy signatures that only openssl would accept. We've gone and cluesticked everyone we could find doing that... but there is a little more remaining.
2656 2013-05-23 22:34:49 welovecp has joined
2657 2013-05-23 22:35:16 <gmaxwell> 0.8.2 will no long relay these things, which is a step along the path of making them forbidden so that we can remove emulating openssl's broken code as a requirement for being a full node.
2658 2013-05-23 22:35:31 <knotwork> So its maybe nothing to do with this mass of orphaned transactions?
2659 2013-05-23 22:35:47 <gmaxwell> michagogo: what are you trying to do?
2660 2013-05-23 22:36:09 <michagogo> Perform a gitian build,
2661 2013-05-23 22:36:10 <gmaxwell> knotwork: you see orphaned transactions on nodes that haven't been running a long time simply because they are transactions spending unconfirmed inputs which you weren't online to see.
2662 2013-05-23 22:36:19 <michagogo> (we were talking about this an hour or so ago)
2663 2013-05-23 22:36:31 <michagogo> I got Ubuntu up and running
2664 2013-05-23 22:36:38 <knotwork> oh okay. I am still at block 237375
2665 2013-05-23 22:36:50 <gmaxwell> michagogo: ah, there are instructions for installing gitian— linked from the gitian site I think? but I'm not the person to ask.
2666 2013-05-23 22:37:03 <michagogo> BlueMatt? Luke-Jr?
2667 2013-05-23 22:37:09 iwilcox_ has joined
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2671 2013-05-23 22:37:36 <Luke-Jr> ?
2672 2013-05-23 22:37:51 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: We were talking about an hour or two ago about building
2673 2013-05-23 22:37:59 <michagogo> I got Ubuntu up and running
2674 2013-05-23 22:38:14 <michagogo> What's the next step?
2675 2013-05-23 22:38:26 <Luke-Jr> RTFM? :P
2676 2013-05-23 22:38:33 <michagogo> Which M is that?
2677 2013-05-23 22:38:52 <jouke> UTFS
2678 2013-05-23 22:38:53 <jouke> :>
2679 2013-05-23 22:39:10 <beethoven8201> is there a linux command line tool to create wallets given a seed?
2680 2013-05-23 22:39:18 <michagogo> https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder for gitian, it appears
2681 2013-05-23 22:39:22 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: the one github shows when you go there ^
2682 2013-05-23 22:39:43 <michagogo> Okay. KVM, LXC, or VirtualBox?
2683 2013-05-23 22:39:56 iwilcox has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2684 2013-05-23 22:40:37 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
2685 2013-05-23 22:40:58 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Is "there" https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder? Also, KVM, LXC, or VirtualBox?
2686 2013-05-23 22:41:39 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: I like KVM
2687 2013-05-23 22:41:44 <michagogo> Okay
2688 2013-05-23 22:42:03 welovecp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2699 2013-05-23 22:53:59 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: make-base-vm just finished
2700 2013-05-23 22:55:45 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: I'm up to https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder#building .  What from here?
2701 2013-05-23 22:56:22 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: see bitcoin doc/release-notes.md
2702 2013-05-23 22:56:25 <Luke-Jr> or whatever it's called
2703 2013-05-23 22:56:29 <michagogo> mkay
2704 2013-05-23 22:56:51 <michagogo> BTW, that's the name
2705 2013-05-23 22:57:12 <michagogo> Except it doesn't contain instructions...
2706 2013-05-23 22:58:14 X-Scale has left ()
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2715 2013-05-23 23:02:08 <maaku> release-process.md
2716 2013-05-23 23:02:40 <michagogo> maaku: Yeah, found that. wgetting the dependencies
2717 2013-05-23 23:02:51 Skav has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2721 2013-05-23 23:11:56 <warren> gmaxwell: did you learn anything more about the assertion failure?  I'm getting it here a lot too.  If you have any suggestions of how I should approach this it would be helpful.
2722 2013-05-23 23:12:05 brson has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2723 2013-05-23 23:13:19 icellan has quit (Quit: icellan)
2724 2013-05-23 23:13:20 brson has joined
2725 2013-05-23 23:14:10 <gmaxwell> warren: what assertion failure??!
2726 2013-05-23 23:14:38 BITTEeinBIT has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2727 2013-05-23 23:14:42 abrkn has joined
2728 2013-05-23 23:15:05 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Running ./bin/gbuild ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/boost-win32.yml
2729 2013-05-23 23:15:18 <michagogo> How long is "Running build script (log in var/build.log)" supposed to take?
2730 2013-05-23 23:15:30 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: as long as it needs to? <.<
2731 2013-05-23 23:15:36 <michagogo> -_-
2732 2013-05-23 23:15:44 <michagogo> I mean, how long does it need to?
2733 2013-05-23 23:17:04 <warren> gmaxwell: weren't you getting an assertion failure when stopping yesterday?
2734 2013-05-23 23:17:15 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2737 2013-05-23 23:17:55 <gmaxwell> warren: it's fixed by a patch sitting in github.
2738 2013-05-23 23:18:29 <warren> oh
2739 2013-05-23 23:18:44 iwilcox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2743 2013-05-23 23:19:05 <warren> gmaxwell: have you seen this bug: Looping "Flushed 12035 addresses to peers.dat  38ms" messages forever after *coin-qt is told to Exit. kill -9 required?
2744 2013-05-23 23:19:27 brson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2745 2013-05-23 23:20:00 Line_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2746 2013-05-23 23:20:04 <gmaxwell> warren: no. try asking in #litecoin. :P
2747 2013-05-23 23:20:16 chmod755 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2748 2013-05-23 23:20:55 <warren> gmaxwell: I'm seeing it in both bitcoin and litecoin
2749 2013-05-23 23:21:15 <warren> I haven't tried building rc2 yet
2750 2013-05-23 23:21:43 <warren> gmaxwell: I wouldn't mention bugs here unless I'm able to reproduce it on bitcoin.
2751 2013-05-23 23:21:53 Ashaman has joined
2752 2013-05-23 23:22:42 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
2753 2013-05-23 23:23:50 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: depends on environment
2754 2013-05-23 23:24:34 brson has joined
2755 2013-05-23 23:27:41 one_zero has joined
2756 2013-05-23 23:27:47 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Okay. On https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md#perform-gitian-builds, what's gitian.sigs, and what's `export SIGNER=(your gitian key, ie bluematt, sipa, etc)`?
2757 2013-05-23 23:28:36 SteveDekorte has quit (Quit: SteveDekorte)
2758 2013-05-23 23:29:41 <warren> did gavin post rc2 binaries?
2759 2013-05-23 23:30:36 <gmaxwell> No. There are some holdups in getting gittian builds, and we might skip rc2 and go to rc3... because we found the two shutdown hangs basically right after tagging rc2.
2760 2013-05-23 23:30:36 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: gitian.sigs is a git repo under the bitcoin github project, and I don't use SIGNER so I'm unsure about that
2761 2013-05-23 23:30:50 <warren> two shutdown hangs?  what's the other one?
2762 2013-05-23 23:30:54 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Oh, should I git clone that?
2763 2013-05-23 23:30:54 <gmaxwell> s/hangs/crashes/
2764 2013-05-23 23:31:00 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: yes
2765 2013-05-23 23:31:08 <gmaxwell> The other one only happens if you shutdown before starting. :)
2766 2013-05-23 23:31:08 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: and setup somewhere you can push your signatures
2767 2013-05-23 23:31:18 <warren> gmaxwell: what are the gitian issues?  I have more hacks that I didn't submit yet
2768 2013-05-23 23:31:32 <warren> to the *.yml files
2769 2013-05-23 23:31:43 <gmaxwell> not gitian itself... but luke hit some non-determinism I think, and sipa has no access to his keys.
2770 2013-05-23 23:31:46 Thepok has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2771 2013-05-23 23:32:13 <warren> oh
2772 2013-05-23 23:32:15 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: So, fork it on github?
2773 2013-05-23 23:32:48 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2776 2013-05-23 23:34:04 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: yes
2777 2013-05-23 23:34:31 <Luke-Jr> warren: something related to the icons embedded in the installer
2778 2013-05-23 23:34:48 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: SOmething seems to have gone wrong
2779 2013-05-23 23:34:49 <michagogo> http://pastebin.com/WM5W6XzH
2780 2013-05-23 23:35:06 <michagogo> boost and qt seem to have built without a problem
2781 2013-05-23 23:35:09 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: the top 2 lines say you don't have the files you need
2782 2013-05-23 23:36:44 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Ah, I see.
2783 2013-05-23 23:36:48 jciri has joined
2784 2013-05-23 23:36:51 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: How do I get those files? http://pastebin.com/m2rXrnz5
2785 2013-05-23 23:36:52 <warren> gmaxwell: what are the "two shutdown hangs basically right after tagging rc2."?
2786 2013-05-23 23:36:57 BenderCoin has joined
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2788 2013-05-23 23:38:58 <gmaxwell> 16:07 <@gmaxwell> s/hangs/crashes/
2789 2013-05-23 23:39:13 <warren> ok
2790 2013-05-23 23:39:20 <warren> I have a hang issue
2791 2013-05-23 23:39:36 <gmaxwell> running _what_? exactly? Commit id?
2792 2013-05-23 23:39:45 <warren> gmaxwell: rc1
2793 2013-05-23 23:40:02 <warren> well, not hang, the looping forever until kill -9
2794 2013-05-23 23:40:10 <gmaxwell> there have been none reported that I'm aware of. Anything in your config? been making any rpc calls?
2795 2013-05-23 23:40:16 <warren> no rpc calls
2796 2013-05-23 23:40:24 <warren> just used "stop" and it gets stuck looping
2797 2013-05-23 23:40:42 <gmaxwell> and you can reliably reproduce this?
2798 2013-05-23 23:41:01 <warren> yes
2799 2013-05-23 23:41:13 <warren> with bitcoin-0.8.2rc1
2800 2013-05-23 23:41:16 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: I usually google for the filenames
2801 2013-05-23 23:41:18 <warren> didn't try rc2 yet
2802 2013-05-23 23:41:43 <gmaxwell> warren: so whats interesting about your setup?
2803 2013-05-23 23:42:27 <warren> gmaxwell: Fedora 18 x86_64, db-4.8, openssl + ecdsa or secp256k1 both exhibit the issue
2804 2013-05-23 23:43:23 welovecp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2805 2013-05-23 23:43:47 <gmaxwell> you're linking against the -mt boost code, right?
2806 2013-05-23 23:43:51 <warren> yes
2807 2013-05-23 23:43:54 Diapolis has joined
2808 2013-05-23 23:44:01 <gmaxwell> hm. perhaps some boost difference in F18. :-/
2809 2013-05-23 23:44:22 <warren> I don't recall if I've seen the looping forever bug with gitian builds.  I'll check.
2810 2013-05-23 23:44:53 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2811 2013-05-23 23:45:46 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Ah, turns out that zlib and libpng are not the latest versions, and those links are dead
2812 2013-05-23 23:45:55 <michagogo> Found the older versions from sourceforgw
2813 2013-05-23 23:45:58 <michagogo> s/w/e/
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2819 2013-05-23 23:53:45 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: sipa: Dependancies are built... wish me luck!
2820 2013-05-23 23:54:22 <michagogo> (currently running `./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml`)
2821 2013-05-23 23:54:29 <sipa> go go go
2822 2013-05-23 23:55:11 <michagogo> sipa: release-process.md says to do `./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=v${VERSION} ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml`
2823 2013-05-23 23:55:41 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2824 2013-05-23 23:55:44 savetheinternet has joined
2825 2013-05-23 23:55:45 <michagogo> But I didn't export VERSION earlier, so I used bitcoin=HEAD, from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/README
2826 2013-05-23 23:56:16 <michagogo> However, the next step in release-process.md, I don't know what to do with
2827 2013-05-23 23:56:32 <sipa> which one?
2828 2013-05-23 23:56:47 <michagogo> ./bin/gsign --signer $SIGNER --release ${VERSION} --destination ../gitian.sigs/ ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml
2829 2013-05-23 23:56:47 <michagogo> I forked gitian.sigs and cloned it
2830 2013-05-23 23:56:53 <michagogo> But what's --signer?
2831 2013-05-23 23:56:58 <sipa> your name
2832 2013-05-23 23:57:03 <michagogo> Ah
2833 2013-05-23 23:57:09 <sipa> or nickname, if you want
2834 2013-05-23 23:57:16 <michagogo> Am I supposed to be generating a key or something?
2835 2013-05-23 23:57:22 <michagogo> Or is it just the text string?
2836 2013-05-23 23:57:36 <sipa> well you'll need a GPG key to sign things with of course
2837 2013-05-23 23:57:41 <sipa> but that's independent
2838 2013-05-23 23:57:45 <michagogo> Ah.
2839 2013-05-23 23:57:47 <sipa> this is just a text string
2840 2013-05-23 23:57:58 <michagogo> sudo apt-get install gpg?
2841 2013-05-23 23:58:05 <sipa> or gnupg
2842 2013-05-23 23:58:10 <sipa> i sign as 'sipa', gavin signs as 'gavinandresen'
2843 2013-05-23 23:58:49 <michagogo> Oh
2844 2013-05-23 23:58:51 <michagogo> "The core package required to start using OpenPGP, gnupg, is installed by default on Ubuntu systems."
2845 2013-05-23 23:59:05 <sipa> very likely, yes :D
2846 2013-05-23 23:59:13 <sipa> as it's used to sign ubuntu packages too
2847 2013-05-23 23:59:42 <michagogo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto says that the name in the key needs to match government-issued photo ID...
2848 2013-05-23 23:59:58 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: different name