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   3 2013-05-29 00:03:34 <donpdonp> is there any difference between a bitcoin transaction generated from a 'move' than from using 'sendfrom'?
   4 2013-05-29 00:03:55 <Luke-Jr> donpdonp: 'move' is off-chain
   5 2013-05-29 00:04:38 <donpdonp> Luke-Jr: hmm. so there would be no transaction for that? it just moves to a different account?
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   7 2013-05-29 00:04:46 <Luke-Jr> donpdonp: no blockchain transaction, no
   8 2013-05-29 00:05:00 <donpdonp> Luke-Jr: okay. thx
   9 2013-05-29 00:05:04 <Luke-Jr> donpdonp: it's even possible to bring one account negative
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  12 2013-05-29 00:05:42 <Luke-Jr> donpdonp: accounts are not visible on the blockchain in any form
  13 2013-05-29 00:06:33 <donpdonp> right, but it seems if i move half of what was received in account A on address A1 to account B, that a new address would need to be made to received this smaller amount
  14 2013-05-29 00:07:02 <donpdonp> and with a new address comes a new transaction in the blockchain (was my thinking)
  15 2013-05-29 00:07:30 <Luke-Jr> donpdonp: no, accounts don't have addresses
  16 2013-05-29 00:07:45 <Luke-Jr> there is a near-complete isolation between the two
  17 2013-05-29 00:07:49 <donpdonp> oh. i thought an account was defined by a collection of addresses.
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  19 2013-05-29 00:08:08 <Luke-Jr> addresses have associated accounts, only used to credit the correct account when coins are received
  20 2013-05-29 00:08:19 <Luke-Jr> wallet is a collection of addresses
  21 2013-05-29 00:08:27 <Luke-Jr> wallet also has accounts, but separate from addresses
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  23 2013-05-29 00:08:49 * donpdonp nods
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  45 2013-05-29 00:57:07 <Vinnie_win> Why does Bitcoin do RIPEMD after SHA256?
  46 2013-05-29 00:58:20 GordonG3kko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  48 2013-05-29 01:01:28 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  49 2013-05-29 01:01:34 <maaku> Vinnie_win: why not?
  50 2013-05-29 01:02:08 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  51 2013-05-29 01:02:13 <Vinnie_win> maaku: Do you know why? It seems that you don't
  52 2013-05-29 01:02:30 <maaku> no one does
  53 2013-05-29 01:02:34 <Vinnie_win> Disagree
  54 2013-05-29 01:02:46 anarchy5 has joined
  55 2013-05-29 01:02:56 <maaku> ok, satoshi does
  56 2013-05-29 01:02:57 K1773R has joined
  57 2013-05-29 01:03:18 <maaku> but if you manage to find him for an interview, I've got some other questions...
  58 2013-05-29 01:03:37 <Vinnie_win> My theory is that he wanted 160 bit addresses to reduce size. But you can't just truncate SHA256, it hasn't been proven that is secure. You can't just run it through RIPEMD either because there could be a vulnerability when interacting with ECDSA
  59 2013-05-29 01:03:59 <Vinnie_win> Therefore, run through SHA256 which has no possibility of an interaction with ECDSA, then use RIPEMD to downsize the hash to 160 bits.
  60 2013-05-29 01:04:15 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  62 2013-05-29 01:04:57 <maaku> Vinnie_win: if truncating SHA256 is not secure, then SHA256 is not secure
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  64 2013-05-29 01:07:49 <execut3> bitcoin uses double hashes almost anywhere
  65 2013-05-29 01:08:26 <execut3> so the choice is either to shorten sha256(sha256(pubkey)), or just use ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))
  66 2013-05-29 01:09:25 <Vinnie_win> sha256(sha256(pubkey)) followed by truncation would have been preferable since its one less dependency
  67 2013-05-29 01:15:11 dansmith_btc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  68 2013-05-29 01:16:13 <nsh> maaku, i am not immediately confident of your assertion
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  70 2013-05-29 01:16:52 <maaku> nsh: if truncation of sha256 provides less security than advertised, then there is structure to sha256
  71 2013-05-29 01:17:12 <maaku> and such structure could be utilized in the construction of pre-image attacks
  72 2013-05-29 01:17:17 <maaku> in other words, broken
  73 2013-05-29 01:17:22 <nsh> obviously there is structure to sha256. mathematics does not permit randomness
  74 2013-05-29 01:17:34 <maaku> for the record, truncation is the NIST-approved method of doing shorter hashes
  75 2013-05-29 01:17:35 <nsh> *deterministic arithmetic
  76 2013-05-29 01:17:46 <maaku> deterministic != structure
  77 2013-05-29 01:18:01 * nsh suspects he is displaying ignorances, decides to read more
  78 2013-05-29 01:18:43 <nsh> (one way functions are still not proven to exist)
  79 2013-05-29 01:19:09 <maaku> yes, and ecdsa isn't proven to be one-way either
  80 2013-05-29 01:19:24 <nsh> thus, only a sith deals in absolutes :)
  81 2013-05-29 01:20:07 <nsh> i certainly have no informed opinion on the relative security of truncated sha256 vs. ripemd(sha256) vs ecdsa
  82 2013-05-29 01:20:34 <nsh> this thread appears to agree with you, at any rate: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/34796/truncating-the-output-of-sha256-to-128-bits
  83 2013-05-29 01:20:48 <maaku> nonsense. if you root yourself only in what is provable, I have a great sequence of mediations you should read by descarte
  84 2013-05-29 01:21:31 <maaku> but yes, the essential feature of a cryptographic hash is that changes to input result in seemingly random changes to the entire output
  85 2013-05-29 01:21:42 * nsh nods
  86 2013-05-29 01:22:03 <maaku> if truncating the output lessened the security by more than the number of bits truncated, then that property would not be true
  87 2013-05-29 01:22:35 <nsh> descartes method of extending ones beliefs from the provable to the "reasonable" has garnered a great deal of criticism in the last few hundred years :)
  88 2013-05-29 01:22:56 <nsh> maaku, this is definitely the desired property, not necessarily the exhibited one
  89 2013-05-29 01:23:13 <nsh> but anyway, i don't actually disagree with you, so let's not fall into disputation
  90 2013-05-29 01:25:28 <nsh> (also apropos: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/18385/does-truncating-the-cryptographic-hash-make-it-impossible-to-crack )
  91 2013-05-29 01:26:07 TheLordOfTime has joined
  92 2013-05-29 01:26:42 <nsh> also: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/63/slides/hash-4.pdf‎
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 104 2013-05-29 01:37:23 <wiretapped> anyone have blocks higher than 238430?
 105 2013-05-29 01:37:37 <wiretapped> it's been over an hour :/
 106 2013-05-29 01:38:19 jaequery has quit (Client Quit)
 107 2013-05-29 01:38:26 <nsh> ;;blocks
 108 2013-05-29 01:38:27 <gribble> 238431
 109 2013-05-29 01:38:31 <nsh> gribble has one
 110 2013-05-29 01:38:33 <joeykrim> 238431, 11 min ago :x
 111 2013-05-29 01:39:01 sipa has joined
 112 2013-05-29 01:39:03 <nsh> ;;interval 1
 113 2013-05-29 01:39:04 <gribble> (interval takes no arguments) -- Shows average interval, in seconds, between last 1000 blocks.
 114 2013-05-29 01:39:11 <nsh> ;;interval
 115 2013-05-29 01:39:12 <gribble> 561.038961038961
 116 2013-05-29 01:39:26 <nsh> (wiki describes interval as taking an argument)
 117 2013-05-29 01:40:01 <wallet431> wheres the wiki for the bot?
 118 2013-05-29 01:40:07 <wiretapped> hmm ok now i see that on blockexplorer and blockchain.info but a minute ago it wasn't there
 119 2013-05-29 01:40:25 shesek has joined
 120 2013-05-29 01:40:27 <wallet431> horray block!!
 121 2013-05-29 01:40:39 <nsh> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Gribble
 122 2013-05-29 01:40:52 * nsh reads http://www.thegenesisblock.com/at-this-rate-the-last-new-btc-will-be-issued-55-years-ahead-of-schedule/
 123 2013-05-29 01:41:49 <warren> tx seem to be backing up
 124 2013-05-29 01:41:56 <sipa> ;;calc 7200/(600*1000)
 125 2013-05-29 01:41:56 <gribble> 0.012
 126 2013-05-29 01:42:17 resinate has joined
 127 2013-05-29 01:42:27 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 128 2013-05-29 01:42:47 execut3 has joined
 129 2013-05-29 01:42:54 <nsh> "Though the difficulty is adjusted in an attempt to maintain the targeted 10 minute block discovery time, this only occurs every 2016 blocks by using the time required to mine the previous 2016 blocks as a reference. While nobly designed, the reality is that computational power is being added at such a significant rate that the network regularly underestimates its adjustments, leading to an average time between blocks so far in 2013 of approximately 8
 130 2013-05-29 01:42:54 <nsh>  minutes and 55 seconds – 11% faster than expected."
 131 2013-05-29 01:42:56 <sipa> ;;calc 7200/(600*1000)*600
 132 2013-05-29 01:42:56 <gribble> 7.2
 133 2013-05-29 01:43:27 <nsh> the probably with control algorithms is that there is not 'correct' solution
 134 2013-05-29 01:43:29 <nsh> *no
 135 2013-05-29 01:44:19 <sipa> and stability and accuracy conflict with eachother
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 142 2013-05-29 01:44:47 <nsh> that said, i don't see any immediate reason why a good choice of difficulty-adjustment algorithm shouldn't over-estimate as much as it under-estimates
 143 2013-05-29 01:44:50 chax has joined
 144 2013-05-29 01:44:59 <nsh> sipa, right
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 149 2013-05-29 01:45:30 <sipa> nsh: it over-estimates as much as it under-estimates, if the actual rate grows as often as it shrinks :)
 150 2013-05-29 01:45:31 <nsh> my personal (and relatively ignorant) leaning is towards stability over the final logarithmic accuracy
 151 2013-05-29 01:45:40 <nsh> hah
 152 2013-05-29 01:46:09 <sipa> the algorithm i use on bitcoin.sipa.be compensates for assumed exponential growth
 153 2013-05-29 01:46:40 <nsh> i don't think satoshi had any particular genius in deciding when the last bitcoin should be mined. fungibility concerns are more pressing in psychological terms (why haven't we got good names for bitcents, millibtc, etc. yet?)
 154 2013-05-29 01:46:44 <sipa> so assuming a constant exponential growth factor (or shrinking factor), it will overestimate as often as it underestimates
 155 2013-05-29 01:46:51 <nsh> oh, nice
 156 2013-05-29 01:46:51 <sipa> millies and mikes!
 157 2013-05-29 01:47:08 <nsh> hehe
 158 2013-05-29 01:47:16 <nsh> sipa, is the code available for that algorithm?
 159 2013-05-29 01:47:21 <sipa> no :)
 160 2013-05-29 01:47:24 <nsh> ok
 161 2013-05-29 01:47:55 <sipa> well, it's not secret, i just never published it
 162 2013-05-29 01:48:09 * nsh nods
 163 2013-05-29 01:48:18 <nsh> btw didn't one of the altcoins switch algos recently, freicoin i think
 164 2013-05-29 01:48:22 <sipa> yes
 165 2013-05-29 01:48:31 <nsh> the dev was having a minor wager with gmaxwel about oscillations iirc
 166 2013-05-29 01:48:33 freewil_ has joined
 167 2013-05-29 01:48:34 <nsh> wonder how that turned out
 168 2013-05-29 01:48:58 <nsh> s/wager/disagreement of expectations
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 170 2013-05-29 01:50:20 <midnightmagic> hah, pid controller for bitcoin difficulty. :)
 171 2013-05-29 01:50:51 * nsh smiles
 172 2013-05-29 01:51:54 <midnightmagic> sipa: Thanks for re-centering your graphs by the way.
 173 2013-05-29 01:52:05 <sipa> midnightmagic: yw :)
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 177 2013-05-29 01:52:14 <sipa> for some reason i'm still doing that manually
 178 2013-05-29 01:52:24 <sipa> i just wait until i get a few forum messages of people complaining :p
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 192 2013-05-29 02:32:16 <robbak_> Silly thing - I've fixed an issue, but I've got two commits in github - and one is just a missing space
 193 2013-05-29 02:32:49 <SomeoneWeird> rebaseeeeee
 194 2013-05-29 02:33:20 <robbak_> How do you squash those commits? OK, rebase. good. How do I do that again?
 195 2013-05-29 02:33:36 <sipa> git fetch upstream
 196 2013-05-29 02:33:37 <SomeoneWeird> goog
 197 2013-05-29 02:33:38 <SomeoneWeird> :P
 198 2013-05-29 02:33:41 <sipa> git rebase -i upstream/master
 199 2013-05-29 02:34:00 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 200 2013-05-29 02:34:05 <Arnavion> or just rebase -i HEAD~2
 201 2013-05-29 02:34:40 <sipa> indeed
 202 2013-05-29 02:34:42 <robbak_> Yes, I do that rebase, but the change cannot be pushed back to github. Complaints about ''non fast-forward"
 203 2013-05-29 02:34:59 <sipa> use push -f
 204 2013-05-29 02:35:12 <sipa> non fast-forward means you're rewriting history
 205 2013-05-29 02:35:24 <sipa> which is what you want in this case
 206 2013-05-29 02:35:35 <robbak_> Great. That's the clue. Thanks!
 207 2013-05-29 02:36:48 <Luke-Jr> robbak_: better NOT to squash things unless they're the same thing really
 208 2013-05-29 02:37:59 <robbak_> Luke-Jr: I had added a variable = 0, but had missed the space between the = and the 0.
 209 2013-05-29 02:38:45 <TheLordOfTime> anyone in here familiar with vanitygen?
 210 2013-05-29 02:39:07 <TheLordOfTime> and know what the probability of collision is between two systems running the same case-insensitive search/generation?
 211 2013-05-29 02:39:50 <sipa> zero
 212 2013-05-29 02:39:57 <sipa> for all practical purposes
 213 2013-05-29 02:40:41 robocoin has quit (Quit: jaja)
 214 2013-05-29 02:40:50 <Luke-Jr> bah, my kernel doesn't have oprofile support
 215 2013-05-29 02:40:53 <Luke-Jr> what's 2nd best? :/
 216 2013-05-29 02:40:56 <TheLordOfTime> so basically infinitesimally small
 217 2013-05-29 02:41:01 <TheLordOfTime> sipa:  ^
 218 2013-05-29 02:41:07 andyh2 has joined
 219 2013-05-29 02:41:28 <sipa> (convert all bitcoin hashing equipment into efficient address mining equipment, and you may start having a reasonable chance of getting a collision after a few thousand years)
 220 2013-05-29 02:41:47 <sipa> note that collisions aren't nearly as interesting as preimages, which are way way less likely even
 221 2013-05-29 02:42:57 <sipa> Luke-Jr: aren't you running an operating system where recompiling stuff with different options is trivial? :p
 222 2013-05-29 02:43:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I'd need to reboot
 223 2013-05-29 02:43:20 <Luke-Jr> which loses the bitcoind-has-broken-GBT state
 224 2013-05-29 02:43:39 <sipa> ah
 225 2013-05-29 02:43:43 <sipa> broken as in slow?
 226 2013-05-29 02:44:08 <Luke-Jr> yes
 227 2013-05-29 02:44:09 <TheLordOfTime> sipa:  heh
 228 2013-05-29 02:44:13 <Luke-Jr> 1m7s
 229 2013-05-29 02:44:43 dansmith_btc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 230 2013-05-29 02:45:04 <sipa> :o
 231 2013-05-29 02:46:25 <robbak_> Done - thanks. There it is as a pullreq - https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2705
 232 2013-05-29 02:47:16 BooleanFracture has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 233 2013-05-29 02:47:42 <sipa> robbak_: it's very strange that it end sup being zero-sized
 234 2013-05-29 02:47:58 <sipa> as it's written to a new file and then atomically moved over the old one
 235 2013-05-29 02:48:07 Guest12593 is now known as BCB
 236 2013-05-29 02:48:59 <robbak_> sipa: I think it is when the file is in the cache,and the data is lost. It happens when the system loses power and has to fsck on restart.
 237 2013-05-29 02:49:26 <sipa> still seems in violation of posix semantics
 238 2013-05-29 02:49:54 <sipa> maybe we need a sync before moving; meh
 239 2013-05-29 02:50:05 px has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 240 2013-05-29 02:50:23 RBecker is now known as rbecker
 241 2013-05-29 02:50:27 <robbak_> In this case it would be better if the file without data was discarded.
 242 2013-05-29 02:51:17 caedes has joined
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 244 2013-05-29 02:51:18 caedes has joined
 245 2013-05-29 02:51:30 <robbak_> But that is not always the case.
 246 2013-05-29 02:52:20 guest892735 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 247 2013-05-29 02:52:45 <robbak_> Anyway, that much is a possible bug in fsck. But crashing on attempting to open it is ours ;D
 248 2013-05-29 02:53:30 guest892735 has joined
 249 2013-05-29 02:54:31 <sipa> agree
 250 2013-05-29 02:54:45 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
 251 2013-05-29 02:56:14 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 252 2013-05-29 02:56:31 <sipa> i ponder increasing the default -dbcache size
 253 2013-05-29 02:57:05 px has joined
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 255 2013-05-29 02:57:17 <sipa> using only 25 MiB, when the whole thing easily takes 400 seems overly conservative
 256 2013-05-29 02:57:20 malaimo has joined
 257 2013-05-29 02:57:22 <sipa> especially on desktop systems
 258 2013-05-29 02:57:32 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 260 2013-05-29 02:58:12 <robbak_> This is probably out of my league, but what are the upsides?
 261 2013-05-29 02:58:13 px has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 262 2013-05-29 02:58:35 <sipa> faster syncing
 263 2013-05-29 02:59:00 <sipa> as it means less frequent writing to disk
 264 2013-05-29 02:59:18 fiesh has joined
 265 2013-05-29 02:59:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: maybe detect system free memory?
 266 2013-05-29 03:00:16 <sipa> Luke-Jr: 1) how to do that in a portable way  2) a lot depends on what the system is being used for
 267 2013-05-29 03:01:00 richcollins has joined
 268 2013-05-29 03:03:01 <warren> huh.   addnode RPC won't let you specify a port number?
 269 2013-05-29 03:03:17 <warren> oh. my mistake.
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 272 2013-05-29 03:13:38 <TheLordOfTime> just to recap i sent to an address just now, and it shows up on blockchain.info, but not in the destination address bitcoin-qt client.  do i have to wait for the next block before bitcoin-qt will detect the receive?
 273 2013-05-29 03:13:44 <TheLordOfTime> s/recap/clarify this/
 274 2013-05-29 03:15:03 <sipa> "maybe"
 275 2013-05-29 03:15:05 <TheLordOfTime> it had a 0.0005 tx fee, so not sure if that matters.
 276 2013-05-29 03:15:15 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 277 2013-05-29 03:15:15 <robbak_> blockchain.info is really annoying. They keep on having problems with sending their data out.
 278 2013-05-29 03:15:35 <robbak_> Give us a transaction ID and I'll check if the world has seen it.
 279 2013-05-29 03:15:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: how do you determine how much free memory there is, on OSX?
 280 2013-05-29 03:15:49 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  d519b9e0bc04397f75ac0e68168daa4c29f289acfd2624e5330e8037fb1aa9b3
 281 2013-05-29 03:16:08 <TheLordOfTime> shows as "Transmitted through 8 nodes" on the system that had the wallet that sent.
 282 2013-05-29 03:17:33 <sipa> my node has it
 283 2013-05-29 03:18:05 <robbak_> Yup, that's right. I've seen it, so it should be in the next block.
 284 2013-05-29 03:18:16 <TheLordOfTime> and when it's in the next block the other client should pick it up?
 285 2013-05-29 03:18:29 <sipa> it won't necessarily be the next block
 286 2013-05-29 03:18:36 <TheLordOfTime> but one of the next few?
 287 2013-05-29 03:18:39 <sipa> but when it is in a block, the other node will definitely see it
 288 2013-05-29 03:18:41 <TheLordOfTime> (it did have a TX fee attached)
 289 2013-05-29 03:18:44 <sipa> maybe
 290 2013-05-29 03:18:45 <robbak_> Yes, if it hasn't already. I've got it here. Yes, one of the next few.
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 294 2013-05-29 03:28:02 <TheLordOfTime> well this... is interesting..
 295 2013-05-29 03:28:08 * TheLordOfTime restarts bitcoin-qt
 296 2013-05-29 03:28:44 beethoven8201 has joined
 297 2013-05-29 03:29:06 <beethoven8201> is it possible to craft an address with a pre-defined hash160?
 298 2013-05-29 03:29:34 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  sipa: not sure if its a bug in bitcoin-qt or not, but I still haven't received the funds, and it was sent to an address i own...
 299 2013-05-29 03:29:37 <TheLordOfTime> no clue what's up with that...
 300 2013-05-29 03:30:09 swulf-- has joined
 301 2013-05-29 03:30:20 <TheLordOfTime> should i be concerned i only see -0.0005 on the one client?
 302 2013-05-29 03:30:35 <TheLordOfTime> and nothing on the other?
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 312 2013-05-29 03:35:42 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: are you synced?
 313 2013-05-29 03:37:44 <TheLordOfTime> ;;blocks
 314 2013-05-29 03:37:44 <gribble> 238442
 315 2013-05-29 03:37:56 <TheLordOfTime> yep
 316 2013-05-29 03:38:15 <TheLordOfTime> ... i should PROBABLY have mentioned i was sending to a wallet address that is watched  by the same bitcoin-qt client
 317 2013-05-29 03:38:45 <TheLordOfTime> ... which may or may not explain this line: "" : -0.24274848
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 319 2013-05-29 03:38:59 ne0futur is now known as ne0futur`
 320 2013-05-29 03:39:01 <TheLordOfTime> and this one: "label" : 0.24274848,
 321 2013-05-29 03:39:04 andyh2 has joined
 322 2013-05-29 03:39:08 <TheLordOfTime> when i do 'listaccounts' in the debug window
 323 2013-05-29 03:39:22 <TheLordOfTime> because the labeled address which i sent to shows the correct amount...
 324 2013-05-29 03:39:37 <TheLordOfTime> "labelfordestination" : 0.02610848,  <--
 325 2013-05-29 03:39:39 * TheLordOfTime shrugs
 326 2013-05-29 03:40:29 <TheLordOfTime> still... damn curious whyt it didn't show up the "Received" transaction, and only showed -0.0005 instead
 327 2013-05-29 03:40:38 resinate has joined
 328 2013-05-29 03:42:01 <robbak_> Your transaction is in a block, block 238441 One output to addrss 1DrTen?
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 333 2013-05-29 03:49:39 <etotheipi_> sipa: I don't
 334 2013-05-29 03:49:49 <etotheipi_> sipa: (get RAM in OSX)
 335 2013-05-29 03:51:23 saracen has joined
 336 2013-05-29 03:51:36 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  yep.
 337 2013-05-29 03:51:52 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  (sorry about the minor delay, phone rang)
 338 2013-05-29 03:52:59 bnc_do_chorao_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 339 2013-05-29 03:53:10 <robbak_> If it was a transaction from withing a wallet to an address in the same wallet, you can expect to just see the fee.
 340 2013-05-29 03:53:13 [Author] has joined
 341 2013-05-29 03:53:50 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  okay, that's 'what i was confused about because I had sent another transaction earlier from within a wallet to an address in the same wallet and it showed up as an all-sent, and then as an incoming transaction
 342 2013-05-29 03:54:06 <TheLordOfTime> such that there ended up being two transactions, one for sending, one for receiving.
 343 2013-05-29 03:54:07 <TheLordOfTime> *shrugs*
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 347 2013-05-29 03:55:25 <TheLordOfTime> robbak_:  so you can see why I was understandably panicked :P
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 351 2013-05-29 04:04:00 <sipa> etotheipi_: hmm, i thought you did, to decide what to pass to -dbcache ?
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 356 2013-05-29 04:09:08 <etotheipi_> sipa: there's no bitcoind for OSX, so I never had to figure that out
 357 2013-05-29 04:09:29 <etotheipi_> sipa: I have to still force OSX users (the ones that can use it) to run Bitcoin-Qt on their own
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 361 2013-05-29 04:10:31 <sipa> ah
 362 2013-05-29 04:10:35 <sipa> right
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 364 2013-05-29 04:12:26 <sipa> etotheipi_: what formula do you use for other systems?
 365 2013-05-29 04:13:38 <sipa> i was thinking about maybe trying to use up to 1/4 of available RAM, within some bounds, or so
 366 2013-05-29 04:13:54 <sipa> for linux and windows, it seems relatively easy to determine available memory
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 385 2013-05-29 04:31:57 <etotheipi_> sipa: I do it in python
 386 2013-05-29 04:31:59 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
 387 2013-05-29 04:32:02 <etotheipi_> and it was more complicated than I expected
 388 2013-05-29 04:32:36 <etotheipi_> but I found some generic example code that worked great
 389 2013-05-29 04:33:06 <etotheipi_> https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory/blob/master/armoryengine.py#L761
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 393 2013-05-29 04:34:44 <sipa>  hmm, that uses total memory, not free meory?
 394 2013-05-29 04:34:55 <etotheipi_> sipa: yes
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 399 2013-05-29 04:37:04 <sipa> free memory seems like a better thing to judge cache sizes on
 400 2013-05-29 04:38:28 <burton`> I'm trying to understand getblocktemplate.  Both libblkmaker and python-blkmaker and the wiki talk about coinbasetxn, but (current git) bitcoind doesn't provide this value.  This forum post says that if it's not there you have to make it yourself: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108854.msg2046397#msg2046397.  Is the wiki, and the blkmakers behind the bitcoind code base, or am I just very confused?
 401 2013-05-29 04:39:14 <burton`> Neither libblkmaker and python-blkmaker examples work with the output of getblocktemplate from bitcoind...
 402 2013-05-29 04:39:43 <sipa> burton`: talk to Luke-Jr
 403 2013-05-29 04:41:38 <burton`> trying to msg him
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 429 2013-05-29 05:32:32 <midnightmagic> sipa: /window goto 37
 430 2013-05-29 05:32:43 <midnightmagic> er..  sorry. :(
 431 2013-05-29 05:32:56 <gonffen> YOU BEST BE
 432 2013-05-29 05:32:59 * sipa goes to window 37
 433 2013-05-29 05:33:10 <gonffen> heh I hope you don't have 37 windows :(
 434 2013-05-29 05:33:40 <sipa> in irc?
 435 2013-05-29 05:33:49 <gonffen> ya that's too many
 436 2013-05-29 05:34:07 <sipa> i have 52 now
 437 2013-05-29 05:34:23 <sipa> usually i have more
 438 2013-05-29 05:34:32 <gonffen> I feel for you
 439 2013-05-29 05:34:57 <sipa> ok...
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 441 2013-05-29 05:40:33 <gonffen> win 12
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 447 2013-05-29 05:49:32 <Subo1978> wich IRV client do you use?
 448 2013-05-29 05:49:46 <Subo1978> irc
 449 2013-05-29 05:54:27 <sipa> irssi
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 486 2013-05-29 06:45:53 <pjorrit> that is impressive, not too easy to manage i assume or can you expand that statusbar vertically?
 487 2013-05-29 06:48:00 <ne0futur> you can, ask on #irssi ;)
 488 2013-05-29 06:48:08 <ne0futur> irssi ftw !
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 502 2013-05-29 07:11:53 <ne0futur> bitcoin-qt uses http://checkip-ams.dyndns.com/ ?
 503 2013-05-29 07:11:59 <ne0futur> fyi <html><head><title>Current IP Check</title></head><body>Current IP Address: 172.25.0.91</body></html>
 504 2013-05-29 07:12:09 <ne0futur> they are wrong if you are behind a proxy
 505 2013-05-29 07:12:35 <ne0futur> they wont check the "forwarded for" headers
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 541 2013-05-29 08:16:37 <ahdinosaur> is it possible to call listtransactions with an empty 'account' argument, but a 'count' and 'from' argument, using bitcoind from cli?
 542 2013-05-29 08:17:04 <sipa> yes, use '*' as account
 543 2013-05-29 08:17:28 <ahdinosaur> thanks
 544 2013-05-29 08:18:35 <petertodd> FWIW, first production version of replace-by-fee patch: https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin/commit/494c86e39e00a5ab6cfccbc29c89407600454389
 545 2013-05-29 08:18:44 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 546 2013-05-29 08:19:21 <petertodd> punts on DoS issues by just not doing the replacement, but the advantage is it's dead simple
 547 2013-05-29 08:19:51 Truncatem has joined
 548 2013-05-29 08:20:15 <petertodd> replace-by-fee.bitcoin.petertodd.org is running a version (actually, the earlier one without DoS protections)
 549 2013-05-29 08:22:10 <ne0futur> fyi https://twitter.com/neofutur/status/339635459300921344 wall street journal + microsoft advertising = phishing trojan against bitcoin ?
 550 2013-05-29 08:22:20 wallet43 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 551 2013-05-29 08:24:47 <ne0futur> ( still here after more than 10 hours and they ve been warned
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 555 2013-05-29 08:34:32 <pjorrit> they should have processes for reporting this stuff right... 10 hours is a long time
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 559 2013-05-29 08:45:08 <sipa> wow, did anyone see abstruse goose today?
 560 2013-05-29 08:45:26 grau has joined
 561 2013-05-29 08:46:06 <sipa> the alt text seems quite certain :)
 562 2013-05-29 08:47:00 <ne0futur> pjorrit: yes thats why i start buzzing that
 563 2013-05-29 08:47:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, somehow I'm not sure that is quite realistic...
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 647 2013-05-29 10:18:55 <warren> The 600 seeds compiled into the 0.8 release were created from sipa's DNS seed data, like this:
 648 2013-05-29 10:18:55 Tritonio__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 649 2013-05-29 10:18:55 <warren> curl -s http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt | head -1000 | makeseeds.py
 650 2013-05-29 10:19:00 <warren> Error 404
 651 2013-05-29 10:19:58 <jouke> https ?
 652 2013-05-29 10:31:12 <t7> quoteth the server 404
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 658 2013-05-29 10:39:23 <warren> hmmm,
 659 2013-05-29 10:39:24 <warren>     static const CCheckpointData data = {
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 661 2013-05-29 10:39:35 <warren> it doesn't appear this is actually used/enforced
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 673 2013-05-29 11:06:28 <eps> anyone know how many MB the blockchain grows each day?
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 686 2013-05-29 11:29:44 <mrkent> anyone have experience with this? https://github.com/kangasbros/django-bitcoin
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 706 2013-05-29 12:10:13 <michagogo> Has 0.8.2 been tagged as final yet, or were there showstopper bugs?
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 708 2013-05-29 12:13:02 <kinlo> it's still not tagged as final
 709 2013-05-29 12:13:16 <kinlo> so basicly it is still in testing phase
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 712 2013-05-29 12:15:42 <michagogo> kinlo: Ah, I see. I ask because about 16 hours ago, gavin said he wanted to tag for release barring any showstopper (I think that's the word he used) bugs in the next 12 hours
 713 2013-05-29 12:16:00 <michagogo> And I wanted to know if I should boot into Ubuntu to build and sign
 714 2013-05-29 12:16:33 <kinlo> I'm sure gavin will tell when the release is done
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 721 2013-05-29 12:21:43 <TheUni> sipa: for backlog: i have autotools building all including bitcoin-qt, without qmake. I'd be interested in getting your opinion before continuing, if you wouldn't mind
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 723 2013-05-29 12:22:34 <TheUni> there's still quite a bit of work left, but it'd be nice to get a nod before continuing down this path
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 764 2013-05-29 13:23:11 <jgarzik> mornin'
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 781 2013-05-29 13:41:36 <BlueMatt> ;;seen Goonie
 782 2013-05-29 13:41:36 <gribble> Goonie was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 8 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 53 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Goonie> hopefully we will be soon paying in satoshis only. That's a nice name.
 783 2013-05-29 13:41:37 <BlueMatt> ;;seen Goonie_
 784 2013-05-29 13:41:38 <gribble> Goonie_ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 1 day, 13 hours, 39 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Goonie_> what's the plan for 0.8.2? will there be an additional rc2?
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 792 2013-05-29 13:49:01 <wallet43>  ;;seen gribble
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 794 2013-05-29 13:49:29 <wallet43> ;;seen satoshinakamoto
 795 2013-05-29 13:49:30 <gribble> satoshinakamoto was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 11 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours, 7 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <satoshinakamoto> I'm back to save the day
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 797 2013-05-29 13:49:54 <wallet43> ;;seen therealsatoshinakamoto
 798 2013-05-29 13:49:54 <gribble> I have not seen therealsatoshinakamoto.
 799 2013-05-29 13:50:09 <BlueMatt> ;;slap wallet43
 800 2013-05-29 13:50:11 * gribble slaps wallet43 with a radioactive diadem
 801 2013-05-29 13:50:30 <wallet43> autsch
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 828 2013-05-29 14:25:36 <jaake> hey guys I have a few questions that may sound fishy but I can assure you are not. about two years ago I locked myself out of one of my bitcoin wallets. at the time it was worth around 3500$ which was a major loss then but now obviously it seems worth my time to revisit any possible way to crack it open. Which is most likely still impossible...
 829 2013-05-29 14:26:17 <BlueMatt> you mean encrypted + lost the password?
 830 2013-05-29 14:26:21 <jaake> My questions are: where in the program is the encrypted key/hash
 831 2013-05-29 14:26:23 <jaake> BlueMatt: yes
 832 2013-05-29 14:26:25 <BlueMatt> seems we didnt have encryption then...
 833 2013-05-29 14:26:37 <BlueMatt> hmm, well all you can do then is brute force
 834 2013-05-29 14:26:39 <jaake> maybe 1.5 years ago? 0.3.1 i think?
 835 2013-05-29 14:26:57 <BlueMatt> and given each try takes upwards of a few hundred ms, you better make that really damn targeted
 836 2013-05-29 14:27:00 <jaake> BlueMatt: this is what I am prepared to do
 837 2013-05-29 14:27:06 <BlueMatt> 0.4 is when encryption started
 838 2013-05-29 14:27:13 <jaake> ahh 0.4.1 then
 839 2013-05-29 14:27:37 Subo1978_ has joined
 840 2013-05-29 14:27:40 <jaake> the encryption is 256 AES yea?
 841 2013-05-29 14:27:46 <jaake> what is it specifically?
 842 2013-05-29 14:27:50 <jaake> ecb?
 843 2013-05-29 14:27:56 <Guest99340> there is a thread in the forums with some code to brute-force if you know approximately what your password was
 844 2013-05-29 14:27:59 <BlueMatt> look at crypter.cpp
 845 2013-05-29 14:28:02 <BlueMatt> ahh
 846 2013-05-29 14:28:19 <BlueMatt> yea, you are gonna need to generate a personal word list that has what you think might have been in your password
 847 2013-05-29 14:28:38 <jaake> there is no software like hashcat for 256 AES
 848 2013-05-29 14:28:40 <jaake> ?
 849 2013-05-29 14:28:49 <jaake> jtr?
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 863 2013-05-29 14:54:34 <nsh> jaake
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 865 2013-05-29 14:55:41 <nsh> there have been some articles recently about passport cracking techniques. in one i think a security 'professional' lost a reasonably good password to an encrypted hard disk and enlisted the aid of a cracker/researcher who helped him narrow the search space and ultimately recover it
 866 2013-05-29 14:55:48 <nsh> trying to fish up the article
 867 2013-05-29 14:56:44 <nsh> there's this, but it's not what i was thinking of: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/how-i-became-a-password-cracker/
 868 2013-05-29 14:57:20 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
 869 2013-05-29 14:58:31 <jaake> nsh: I think I just read that article
 870 2013-05-29 14:58:49 <jaake> about a mac DMG in 256AES right?
 871 2013-05-29 14:59:00 <jaake> he got some help with it
 872 2013-05-29 15:00:00 btcls has joined
 873 2013-05-29 15:00:24 <btcls> i got lost in chat
 874 2013-05-29 15:00:33 <btcls> just wanted to let everyone know
 875 2013-05-29 15:01:08 <jaake> nsh: the problem with mine is that it's 64^32 I can make that smaller by the things I know about the password but it was randomly generated. so it'll take years likely if it's possible at all. I need to calc the char space with the things I do know about the password to make sure it is even feasible first. I have ten lancelot mining boards that'll I'll probably retire soon and wanted to use them to try
 876 2013-05-29 15:01:11 <jaake> and get this.
 877 2013-05-29 15:01:17 <btcls> i am now calling "physical" money on my website "snail" money ...it is analgous to "snail mail" when it first started
 878 2013-05-29 15:01:37 <btcls> fyi
 879 2013-05-29 15:01:40 <btcls> poof
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 881 2013-05-29 15:01:55 <MC1984> wtf
 882 2013-05-29 15:02:59 <nsh> jaake, tough situation :/
 883 2013-05-29 15:03:03 <jaake> indeed
 884 2013-05-29 15:03:45 <jaake> but I think i may be able to get at it with good software if I can trim the target down enough, at the very least I will learn a lot about encryption and information theory
 885 2013-05-29 15:04:09 <jaake> and I may have to write frimware for those FPGA's too
 886 2013-05-29 15:04:14 <jaake> firmware*
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 888 2013-05-29 15:05:28 <jaake> I was just wondering if anyone in here could tell me anything more specific about the way the client encrypts the priv keys.
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 892 2013-05-29 15:09:51 <BlueMatt> jaake: look at the code :p crypter.cpp iirc
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 895 2013-05-29 15:11:54 <jaake> will do. I'll probably end up hiring some people. let anyone with skills who may be interested know. if I have to end up writing the custom firmware for the FPGA's it'll be too much work for me on my own..
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 898 2013-05-29 15:14:32 <BlueMatt> how much money is in this wallet?
 899 2013-05-29 15:14:38 <BlueMatt> (by today's standards)
 900 2013-05-29 15:14:57 <jaake> uh 90k?
 901 2013-05-29 15:15:03 <jaake> ish
 902 2013-05-29 15:15:12 <BlueMatt> hmm, yea that may be worth hiring someone then...
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 904 2013-05-29 15:15:30 <jaake> i has wrote it off back then but now it warrants another look :)
 905 2013-05-29 15:15:37 <jaake> had*
 906 2013-05-29 15:16:06 <michagogo> jaake: Looking to crack a wallet?
 907 2013-05-29 15:16:14 <jaake> indeed
 908 2013-05-29 15:16:29 <BlueMatt> how long was the randomly generated password?
 909 2013-05-29 15:17:15 <jgm> Another salutary lesson: make sure that you use weak passwords so that you can crack them when you lose them.  When will people learn?
 910 2013-05-29 15:17:29 <BlueMatt> heh
 911 2013-05-29 15:17:52 <jaake> 32^64 or 32*[0-9][a-z][A-Z] but I do remember things about the password that will lessen it, things like there were not any four char that were the same IE 4444 or AAAA etc.
 912 2013-05-29 15:18:00 <Ry4an> I just always use the same one, that way if I forget it there's only 1 to try. ;)
 913 2013-05-29 15:18:13 <jaake> Ry4an: this was just a security mix up
 914 2013-05-29 15:18:26 <jaake> I was running a lot of different wallets and I backed up the wrong one
 915 2013-05-29 15:18:28 <iwilcox> jaake: So you didn't forget this password, because there's no damn way you remembered that much entropy.
 916 2013-05-29 15:18:34 <jaake> indeed
 917 2013-05-29 15:18:37 <Ry4an> jaake: I'm just riffing on jgm's comment, not making fun of your unfortunate situation
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 919 2013-05-29 15:18:52 <iwilcox> jaake: So where was it stored?  Feasible to go after that instead?
 920 2013-05-29 15:19:00 <jaake> Ry4an: oh don't worry, I have long ago finished shedding tears over this one
 921 2013-05-29 15:19:00 <Ry4an> I did the same w/ a harddrive as a youngin' and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
 922 2013-05-29 15:19:18 <jaake> iwilcox: negative
 923 2013-05-29 15:20:15 <jaake> this was a while ago and it was't worth (at the time) doing advanced hardware forensics to get the other wallet especially since I had been using the computer for 1+ month before I realized
 924 2013-05-29 15:20:25 <Ry4an> jaake: if there's a header in encrypted wallets in addition to the private keys you could probably publish just enough of the encrypted file to know someone's got the right password w/o them getting the private key
 925 2013-05-29 15:20:42 <Ry4an> then you could "crowd source" the bruteforcing and offer a bounty.
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 928 2013-05-29 15:20:50 <BlueMatt> jaake: you want to brute force a
 929 2013-05-29 15:20:51 <jaake> Ry4an: that's why I am in here, to explore such options
 930 2013-05-29 15:20:58 <jgm> jaake: you really need to cut down that search space.  Were there any rules around the password such as total number of letters/numbers, consecutive letters/numbers, avoiding ambiguous characters?  Anything like that would help
 931 2013-05-29 15:21:02 <BlueMatt> n alphanum 32-char password???? hahahahahahahahahaha
 932 2013-05-29 15:21:07 <BlueMatt> I dont care what hardware you have
 933 2013-05-29 15:21:19 <BlueMatt> or that there are no quintuplets
 934 2013-05-29 15:21:30 <iwilcox> ;;calc 32 ^ 64
 935 2013-05-29 15:21:30 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
 936 2013-05-29 15:21:34 <iwilcox> ;;calc 32 ** 64
 937 2013-05-29 15:21:35 <gribble> 2135987035920910082395021706169552114602704522356652769947041607822219725780640550022962086936576
 938 2013-05-29 15:21:40 <jaake> BlueMatt: I admitted when I first entered that this whole business was unlikely
 939 2013-05-29 15:22:10 <jaake> however I can remember other things about the password that can further reduce the search space
 940 2013-05-29 15:22:16 <iwilcox> Hardly.
 941 2013-05-29 15:22:20 <kinlo> iwilcox: 64 ** 32 seems more correct if you want to calculate the number of iterations required for 32 letters of 64 possibilities
 942 2013-05-29 15:22:41 <iwilcox> So it does.
 943 2013-05-29 15:22:44 <jgm> Much better off just generating random keys and hoping to get lucky hitting someone else's wallet for the coin (not that I am advocating nor recommending such a course of action)
 944 2013-05-29 15:23:14 <kinlo> ;;calc 64 **32
 945 2013-05-29 15:23:15 <gribble> 6277101735386680763835789423207666416102355444464034512896
 946 2013-05-29 15:23:16 <iwilcox> ;;calc (26 + 26 + 10) ** 32
 947 2013-05-29 15:23:16 <gribble> 2272657884496751488845238209201680422446063209228378570752
 948 2013-05-29 15:23:32 <kinlo> much smaller number :)
 949 2013-05-29 15:23:48 <iwilcox> Yeah, jaake should be finished by lunchtime :)
 950 2013-05-29 15:23:51 <jgm> Relatively smaller number, anyway
 951 2013-05-29 15:23:51 <BlueMatt> jaake: "unlikey" hahahhaa read http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/the_doghouse_cr.html or atleast the section that talks about thermodynamics
 952 2013-05-29 15:24:09 <jaake> what I really need to do is figure out how much I can limit the search space. and calculate the feasibility
 953 2013-05-29 15:24:26 <jaake> BlueMatt: I have read that thank you
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 955 2013-05-29 15:24:55 <iwilcox> I'd say what you really need to do is either find a way to forensically analyse wherever you stored the password (?) or let it go.
 956 2013-05-29 15:25:31 <jaake> iwilcox: my plan is to wait until quantum computing is fully realized :)
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 960 2013-05-29 15:25:48 <BlueMatt> that wont even help, sorry
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 963 2013-05-29 15:26:09 <BlueMatt> at least getting the password, it will help to get the privkeys, but...
 964 2013-05-29 15:26:26 <jgm> jaake: I'd put the wallet up for sale on Ebay.  Let someone who can't do the math buy it from you for a decent amount of money
 965 2013-05-29 15:26:27 <iwilcox> I'm still fuzzy on how wallet backups had anything to do with the loss.  If you have the encrypted wallet still, what you need is your password manager's storage.  You haven't said what happened to that.
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 967 2013-05-29 15:26:48 <jaake> iwilcox: the password was changed
 968 2013-05-29 15:27:07 <jaake> the password manager had the new password. the old wallet was backed up
 969 2013-05-29 15:27:11 <BlueMatt> jaake: with 10x hardware that runs 2 orders of magnitude (!) faster than a cpu, you may be able to get 864000000 tries per DAY
 970 2013-05-29 15:27:13 <BlueMatt> so...have fun
 971 2013-05-29 15:27:16 <jaake> the new wallet was lost
 972 2013-05-29 15:27:36 <iwilcox> Some password managers automatically save modified entries.
 973 2013-05-29 15:27:52 <jgm> jaake: have you checked to see if the password manager keeps a history?  Or if you used a provider which keeps backups?
 974 2013-05-29 15:27:58 <jaake> iwilcox: no dice (lastpass)
 975 2013-05-29 15:27:58 <iwilcox> As in, save the old when you set a new one.
 976 2013-05-29 15:28:07 <jgm> jaake: lastpass keeps a full history
 977 2013-05-29 15:28:15 <jaake> jgm: not in a secure note
 978 2013-05-29 15:28:31 <jgm> You aren't helping yourself, you know :)
 979 2013-05-29 15:28:35 <jaake> I know
 980 2013-05-29 15:28:58 <jaake> as I have said I was jsut taking another look :) I will calc how low I can get the search space
 981 2013-05-29 15:29:08 <jaake> and get back to you
 982 2013-05-29 15:29:30 <jgm> Worth contacting lastpass and seeing if they have a backup they can restore for you?  I'd be worried if they couldn't (if they would is another matter, but...)
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 986 2013-05-29 15:29:49 <jaake> I have already decided this is now just a challenge for fun. and to learn about encryption and information theory
 987 2013-05-29 15:29:58 <jgm> Promise to give them some glowing quotes about how it saved you real money, they might do it for the publicity
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 990 2013-05-29 15:30:31 <jaake> jgm: lol, I doubt they keep backups of encrypted secure notes for over a year
 991 2013-05-29 15:30:40 <jaake> but I guess it's worth a look
 992 2013-05-29 15:30:53 <iwilcox> For $90000 they might find a dusty backup
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 995 2013-05-29 15:31:19 <jgm> jaake: I'd be surprised if they didn't.  Definitely worth mailing them either way
 996 2013-05-29 15:31:31 <jaake> the problem is that I don't think the old password ever got saved in there
 997 2013-05-29 15:31:53 <iwilcox> Did you never actually use it to open the wallet?  You'd have had to, to change the password, shirley?
 998 2013-05-29 15:32:23 <jaake> since that was the switch to 32 * [0-9][A-Z][a-z][special]
 999 2013-05-29 15:33:45 <jaake> i was new and foolish. and at the time it wasn't nearly worth that much :) you can all thank me for the increase in BTC worth though I guess!
1000 2013-05-29 15:34:07 <Musk> lol
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1005 2013-05-29 15:35:56 <iwilcox> My opinion: "a challenge for fun. and to learn" definitely doesn't involve hiring people.  Anyone who takes your hiring-money is either not really qualified to know they can't help, or is swindling you.
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1009 2013-05-29 15:40:26 <jaake> iwilcox: the hiring will only commence once I calculate that the search space is feasible. which it probably is not. but if it is not at least I get good at calculating search space and reducing it. and understanding the difference, and maybe designing an algorythm the probabilistically searches based on a model that i could build. like I said at this point i do not ever hope to reclaim them
1010 2013-05-29 15:41:21 <jaake> iwilcox: and I would be hiring people to comsult me on an hourly basis not there cracking GPU clusters or anything
1011 2013-05-29 15:41:29 <jaake> more like tutoring :)
1012 2013-05-29 15:42:41 <jaake> their*
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1018 2013-05-29 15:46:41 <nsh> jaake, maybe you should just publicise an open competition to crack the wallet, promising a certain percentage bounty
1019 2013-05-29 15:47:15 <nsh> though that would require some honour system i guess
1020 2013-05-29 15:49:01 <jaake> not if I can get a hash or w/e
1021 2013-05-29 15:49:29 <jaake> that'd be kind of cool though I imagine that nobody would even try until computer get much much faster
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1023 2013-05-29 15:50:01 <jaake> %s/hash/header/
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1027 2013-05-29 15:54:11 <iwilcox> Are the coins divided conveniently among the addresses in that wallet?  You should still be able to tell if encryption then worked like encryption now, i.e. only the private keys are encrypted.
1028 2013-05-29 15:55:24 <iwilcox> If there's an address with a UTXO with a suitable bounty, and you can devise an honour system, then letting the market decide is probably quite a neat way to do it.
1029 2013-05-29 15:55:46 <iwilcox> (Since they'll quickly decide "no", which will give you all the info you need!)
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1031 2013-05-29 15:56:18 <jaake> iwilcox: lol yeah I think it's in 100 or 200 coins groups
1032 2013-05-29 15:57:00 <jaake> i think it's something like 600 or 700 coins?
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1034 2013-05-29 15:58:57 <nsh> or you could announce that you have deflated the bitcoin supply by X% and make a compelling argument that you should become a permanent ward of the economy and have your lodging and board paid in perpetuity
1035 2013-05-29 15:58:59 <jaake> iwilcox: I will see, it may be a fun way to meet some interesting people
1036 2013-05-29 15:59:15 <jaake> nsh: ++
1037 2013-05-29 15:59:24 <jaake> I should get tx priority without any fees
1038 2013-05-29 15:59:27 <jaake> :P
1039 2013-05-29 15:59:31 <nsh> :)
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1042 2013-05-29 16:01:03 <jaake> funny thing is that if I had not locked it up, i'd have spent that money long ago when it was worth 5 or 6 bucks
1043 2013-05-29 16:01:52 <jaake> it's only horrific now becaue of the increase in value which is only applicable because I was forced into saving them in the first place
1044 2013-05-29 16:02:52 <jaake> I'll do some more research and maybe I'll put up a site for orphaned wallets, that might be cool...
1045 2013-05-29 16:03:00 <jaake> not really orphaned i guess
1046 2013-05-29 16:03:04 <jaake> but w/e
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1050 2013-05-29 16:10:25 <sipa> warren: i no longer have tgat list public
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1075 2013-05-29 16:42:45 <kaniini> hi, was 32256 is the first block in the chain with a difficulty change?
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1079 2013-05-29 16:47:00 <iwilcox> Blocks have reward changes, not difficulty changes, AIUI.
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1081 2013-05-29 16:50:49 <wallet43> soon there will be more alternate cryptocurrencies than bitcoin blocks
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1087 2013-05-29 16:51:44 <sipa> iwilcox: uh yes they do, every 2016 blocks the difficulty is adjusted
1088 2013-05-29 16:51:56 <sipa> well, difficulty is a derived unit; the target changes
1089 2013-05-29 16:52:16 <Mad7Scientist> bitcoin-qt is still locked up
1090 2013-05-29 16:52:24 <kaniini> indeed, 32256 mod 2016 is 0
1091 2013-05-29 16:52:27 <Mad7Scientist> 1114MB resident memory used
1092 2013-05-29 16:52:44 <Mad7Scientist> 2194MB virt
1093 2013-05-29 16:52:54 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: define locked up?
1094 2013-05-29 16:53:04 <Mad7Scientist> 1 thread uses 100% CPU for a minute
1095 2013-05-29 16:53:04 <kaniini> but, calculating difficulty for each block, from 0 to 32216
1096 2013-05-29 16:53:10 <Mad7Scientist> and 5 other threads spawn
1097 2013-05-29 16:53:11 <kaniini> well, 32255 rather
1098 2013-05-29 16:53:15 <Mad7Scientist> then they close and it frees up
1099 2013-05-29 16:53:17 <Mad7Scientist> for a few seconds
1100 2013-05-29 16:53:18 <kaniini> yields difficulty=1.0
1101 2013-05-29 16:53:19 <Mad7Scientist> then again
1102 2013-05-29 16:53:32 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: 0.8.2?
1103 2013-05-29 16:53:36 <Mad7Scientist> the 100% cpu threads spawns
1104 2013-05-29 16:53:38 <Mad7Scientist> 0.8.1
1105 2013-05-29 16:53:38 <kaniini> then it goes to 1.18
1106 2013-05-29 16:53:39 <kaniini> \
1107 2013-05-29 16:53:43 <kaniini> oops, lag
1108 2013-05-29 16:53:54 <Mad7Scientist> I guess I have to upgrade
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1110 2013-05-29 16:54:09 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: try 0.8.2 please, it has significant memory usage improvements and also cpu usage improvements for GBT
1111 2013-05-29 16:54:23 <kaniini> 2016 = 1.0, 4032 = 1.0, so on
1112 2013-05-29 16:54:51 <sipa> kaniini: bitcoin.sipa.be :)
1113 2013-05-29 16:55:04 <Mad7Scientist> there must be some DoS or some issue with the block chain
1114 2013-05-29 16:55:11 <Mad7Scientist> because it has been working fine for a long time
1115 2013-05-29 16:55:41 <kaniini> sipa: doesn't graph difficulty=
1116 2013-05-29 16:55:43 <sipa> we haven't found the root cause of the suddenly increased GBT cpu usage
1117 2013-05-29 16:55:49 <wallet43> sipa: is there csv for the data?
1118 2013-05-29 16:55:49 <sipa> kaniini: it does
1119 2013-05-29 16:56:04 <sipa> wallet43: eh, don't think so
1120 2013-05-29 16:56:19 <kaniini> i only see compute throughput, and only from january 2012
1121 2013-05-29 16:56:24 <wallet43> how do you draw the charts?
1122 2013-05-29 16:56:36 <sipa> wallet43: gnuplot
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1124 2013-05-29 16:56:44 <kaniini> oh, i see.
1125 2013-05-29 16:57:17 <Mad7Scientist> where is 0.8.2?
1126 2013-05-29 16:57:21 <Mad7Scientist> I just see 0.8.1
1127 2013-05-29 16:57:25 <sipa> kaniini: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever-large.png red line
1128 2013-05-29 16:57:35 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: not released yet, there is a rc3
1129 2013-05-29 16:57:39 <kaniini> sipa: yep, i see now.
1130 2013-05-29 16:57:42 <Mad7Scientist> sourceforge?
1131 2013-05-29 16:57:47 <sipa> yes
1132 2013-05-29 16:58:02 <sipa> it's announced on the forums and the mailing list i think
1133 2013-05-29 16:58:10 <kaniini> sipa: that is basically what i was trying to compute, so, you have saved me some work ;)
1134 2013-05-29 16:58:20 <sipa> oh
1135 2013-05-29 16:59:03 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/blocks.txt
1136 2013-05-29 16:59:20 <sipa> that's the extracted input data from which the graphs are computed
1137 2013-05-29 16:59:30 <wallet43> thx :)
1138 2013-05-29 16:59:30 <sipa> it has block heights and difficulty
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1140 2013-05-29 17:00:05 <wallet43> whats the last
1141 2013-05-29 17:00:10 <wallet43> numtx?
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1143 2013-05-29 17:00:38 <sipa> yes
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1186 2013-05-29 17:27:50 <Subo1978> sipa: when will the new bitcoind version released
1187 2013-05-29 17:27:59 <sipa> when it is ready
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1193 2013-05-29 17:29:26 <Subo1978> sipa: this is ?
1194 2013-05-29 17:30:01 <jgarzik> Subo1978, a spoon
1195 2013-05-29 17:30:02 <sipa> i can't say when; it is likely very soon, but it depends on how many bugreports we see
1196 2013-05-29 17:30:08 <jgarzik> no, no, a shoe.
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1224 2013-05-29 17:41:34 <gavinandresen> sipa jgarzik:  I think "now" is a good time for 0.8.2, there weren't any showstopper bugs since yesterday, were there?
1225 2013-05-29 17:41:42 Subo1978 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1228 2013-05-29 17:42:26 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'm mildly concerned about the mutex errors at shutdown that keep popping up
1229 2013-05-29 17:42:27 gjj has joined
1230 2013-05-29 17:42:43 <gavinandresen> sipa: not show-stopper-serious, in my opinion
1231 2013-05-29 17:42:48 <sipa> agree
1232 2013-05-29 17:42:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, ack
1233 2013-05-29 17:42:55 Subo1978_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1234 2013-05-29 17:43:20 egis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1235 2013-05-29 17:43:31 <gavinandresen> ok, I'm going to tag git HEAD which is one teeny-tiny little #include <stdarg.h>  change from 0.8.2rc3
1236 2013-05-29 17:43:36 Subo1978 has joined
1237 2013-05-29 17:43:47 <MC1984> anyone find out about my thing?
1238 2013-05-29 17:43:51 <MC1984> GBT crash
1239 2013-05-29 17:44:23 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1240 2013-05-29 17:44:31 <gavinandresen> MC1984: what issue# ?"
1241 2013-05-29 17:44:40 gjj has joined
1242 2013-05-29 17:44:48 <sipa> #2705 seems harmless
1243 2013-05-29 17:44:49 tyn has joined
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1245 2013-05-29 17:44:58 <MC1984> in rc3, issuing a GBT in the debug console crashes bitcoin hard
1246 2013-05-29 17:45:07 <MC1984> in the QT gui
1247 2013-05-29 17:45:08 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1248 2013-05-29 17:45:33 <sipa> hmmz
1249 2013-05-29 17:45:47 <MC1984> the thing i described a few days ago
1250 2013-05-29 17:45:49 <gavinandresen> MC1984: file an issue, please.  Doesn't sound like a show-stopper, though (why would you getblocktemplate in the console?)
1251 2013-05-29 17:46:26 <MC1984> i dont, usually, but i read someone fixed the latency bug and i wanted to see
1252 2013-05-29 17:46:39 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: if its reproducible, any crash that we dont at least know the source of should be show-stopper
1253 2013-05-29 17:46:51 <MC1984> i thought the crash might be related to the fix, so i thought someone should know
1254 2013-05-29 17:47:10 <MC1984> i can reproduce it but someone else here couldnt
1255 2013-05-29 17:47:14 <michagogo> MC1984: Is the command just `getblocktemplate`?
1256 2013-05-29 17:47:20 <MC1984> yes
1257 2013-05-29 17:47:22 <michagogo> I'll try it, just a sec
1258 2013-05-29 17:47:33 <michagogo> (looks like I need to boot my node)
1259 2013-05-29 17:47:34 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1260 2013-05-29 17:47:41 <sipa> let me try to reproduce
1261 2013-05-29 17:47:48 <MC1984> my system is winxp32
1262 2013-05-29 17:47:53 <gavinandresen> getblocktemplate in the console works for me
1263 2013-05-29 17:47:54 gjj has joined
1264 2013-05-29 17:47:54 <sipa> ah, no qt build env here
1265 2013-05-29 17:47:55 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Ping me when you tag it final, I'll reboot into Ubuntu
1266 2013-05-29 17:48:11 <sipa> MC1984: how reproducible is it?
1267 2013-05-29 17:48:23 <MC1984> i did it like 5 times in a row
1268 2013-05-29 17:48:30 <sipa> MC1984: i vaguely remember asking you (or someone) to test something with an empty wallet
1269 2013-05-29 17:48:31 <michagogo> MC1984: On freshly-booted nodes?
1270 2013-05-29 17:48:34 <sipa> was that for this issue?
1271 2013-05-29 17:48:49 <MC1984> yes you told me to try an empty wallet with it few days ago
1272 2013-05-29 17:48:53 <MC1984> same result
1273 2013-05-29 17:49:05 <MC1984> lemme try again
1274 2013-05-29 17:49:25 <MC1984> actually ill reboot and try again
1275 2013-05-29 17:49:36 MC1984 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1276 2013-05-29 17:50:18 psychophoniac has joined
1277 2013-05-29 17:50:31 <psychophoniac> hello everyone, can someone give me a link to something about the cryptographic background of bitcoin?
1278 2013-05-29 17:50:34 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1279 2013-05-29 17:50:39 <psychophoniac> i already read the paper by satoshi
1280 2013-05-29 17:51:00 <BlueMatt> en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
1281 2013-05-29 17:51:00 gjj has joined
1282 2013-05-29 17:51:12 <sipa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_DSA
1283 2013-05-29 17:51:31 <jgarzik> psychophoniac, it's pretty much off-the-shelf crypto technologies
1284 2013-05-29 17:51:41 <sipa> http://www.secg.org/download/aid-780/sec1-v2.pdf
1285 2013-05-29 17:51:51 <sipa> except we're pretty much the only ones who use secp256k1
1286 2013-05-29 17:52:13 damientrog_ has joined
1287 2013-05-29 17:52:16 <michagogo> Question: Do you guys use checkip.dyndns.org as a way for the client to find its own address?
1288 2013-05-29 17:52:30 <kaniini> sipa: actually, i developed a SASL mechanism which uses secp256k1.
1289 2013-05-29 17:52:39 <kaniini> sipa: http://github.com/atheme/ecdsatool
1290 2013-05-29 17:52:58 <sipa> ha!
1291 2013-05-29 17:53:20 damientrog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1292 2013-05-29 17:53:20 damientrog_ is now known as damientrog
1293 2013-05-29 17:53:22 Subo1978 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1294 2013-05-29 17:53:32 <michagogo> I ask because of http://i.imgur.com/2hn3EVx.png
1295 2013-05-29 17:53:43 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1296 2013-05-29 17:54:05 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
1297 2013-05-29 17:54:07 <psychophoniac> nice, thank you guys. i have a lecture about cryptography at uni and today introduced my (retired) prof who loves that stuff to bitcoin.
1298 2013-05-29 17:54:09 gjj has joined
1299 2013-05-29 17:54:14 MC1984 has joined
1300 2013-05-29 17:54:34 <gavinandresen> michagogo: grep checkip *.cpp     <--- gets   addrConnect = CService("91.198.22.70", 80); // checkip.dyndns.org
1301 2013-05-29 17:54:39 <jgarzik> psychophoniac, ECDSA, SHA256 are the main ones
1302 2013-05-29 17:54:41 jaequery has joined
1303 2013-05-29 17:54:50 <jgarzik> psychophoniac, the innovation (proof of work) came from hashcash
1304 2013-05-29 17:54:53 <psychophoniac> ...can you choose the algo?
1305 2013-05-29 17:54:57 <jgarzik> psychophoniac, no
1306 2013-05-29 17:54:57 <sipa> no
1307 2013-05-29 17:55:11 <sipa> there's also RIPEMD160 used for address hashes
1308 2013-05-29 17:55:35 <MC1984> !blocks
1309 2013-05-29 17:55:36 <gribble> 238555
1310 2013-05-29 17:55:44 <MC1984> shi
1311 2013-05-29 17:55:44 <psychophoniac> ah. learned something today.
1312 2013-05-29 17:55:46 <MC1984> t
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1315 2013-05-29 17:56:10 <michagogo> Ah, virustotal comes up clean, but: BitDefender domain information
1316 2013-05-29 17:56:11 <michagogo> The URL domain/host was seen to host badware at some point in time
1317 2013-05-29 17:56:12 Subo1978 has joined
1318 2013-05-29 17:56:13 <psychophoniac> now let us read into that... thanks again :)
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1323 2013-05-29 17:56:54 <sipa> getblocktemplate crashing bitcoin-qt is reproducible for me
1324 2013-05-29 17:57:06 wallet43 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1325 2013-05-29 17:57:22 <MC1984> oh its not just me
1326 2013-05-29 17:57:48 <michagogo> I typed getblocktemplate into the console
1327 2013-05-29 17:58:03 <michagogo> And it crashed. (rc3, win7x64)
1328 2013-05-29 17:58:12 Subo1978_ has joined
1329 2013-05-29 17:58:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: looks related to your reservekey fix
1330 2013-05-29 17:58:24 Subo1978_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1331 2013-05-29 17:58:26 <MC1984> babbys first bug report ^^
1332 2013-05-29 17:58:32 qeb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1333 2013-05-29 17:58:36 <sipa> MC1984: next time, file an issue
1334 2013-05-29 17:58:36 Duly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1335 2013-05-29 17:58:39 brson has joined
1336 2013-05-29 17:58:43 Subo1978 has quit (Client Quit)
1337 2013-05-29 17:59:19 <MC1984> i didnt want to do that and waste someones time if it was just me, which is why i asked about it in here a few days ago
1338 2013-05-29 17:59:26 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1339 2013-05-29 17:59:29 Subo1978 has joined
1340 2013-05-29 18:01:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: still can't reproduce on my Mac, can you debug?
1341 2013-05-29 18:01:19 qeb has joined
1342 2013-05-29 18:01:33 wallet43 has joined
1343 2013-05-29 18:02:08 <MC1984> in future though i will just file an issue if im fairly sure
1344 2013-05-29 18:02:50 <michagogo> BTW, debug.log doesn't have anything in it that seems related
1345 2013-05-29 18:02:52 <gavinandresen> oh… I see it...
1346 2013-05-29 18:02:58 <michagogo> 2013-05-29 17:34:05 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted d78356857f7ec2cd33bc877d041f747aa0499a8627caa8e950bc52b8fafdd47f (poolsz 182)
1347 2013-05-29 18:02:58 <michagogo> 2013-05-29 17:34:06 Flushed 14729 addresses to peers.dat  49ms
1348 2013-05-29 18:03:04 <michagogo> And that's the end
1349 2013-05-29 18:03:12 <gavinandresen> I can't reproduce because I'm running bitcoin-qt with -server=1
1350 2013-05-29 18:03:26 <gavinandresen> … so the RPC threads are started, so the mining key is created....
1351 2013-05-29 18:03:44 <Krellan> Curious, is IPv6 supported in official build?  I have never seen it make an IPv6 connection, either inbound or outbound.
1352 2013-05-29 18:03:54 <sipa> gavinandresen: yup, that's it
1353 2013-05-29 18:04:00 <sipa> kaniini: it should be, yes
1354 2013-05-29 18:04:02 richcollins has joined
1355 2013-05-29 18:08:04 wallet43 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1356 2013-05-29 18:08:27 <michagogo> Is this GBT fix going to mean an rc4?
1357 2013-05-29 18:08:34 <michagogo> Or is it small enough for a final?
1358 2013-05-29 18:08:48 <kaniini> sipa: unfortunately, key enrollment still needs to be tidied up, and then freenode needs to be sold on turning it on.
1359 2013-05-29 18:09:04 wallet43 has joined
1360 2013-05-29 18:09:21 <gavinandresen> michagogo: might be small enough to be release notes "KNOWN BUGS"
1361 2013-05-29 18:09:22 <sipa> kaniini: ??
1362 2013-05-29 18:09:32 <sipa> kaniini: oh, SASL
1363 2013-05-29 18:09:38 wallet43 has quit (Client Quit)
1364 2013-05-29 18:09:42 <michagogo> Ah
1365 2013-05-29 18:10:23 wallet43 has joined
1366 2013-05-29 18:10:51 <gavinandresen> Bah, I hate deciding whether to live with a bug or add a last-minute "easy" fix….
1367 2013-05-29 18:11:27 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Personally, I'd just leave it if it's that minor
1368 2013-05-29 18:11:44 <michagogo> Because you never know what may end up breaking
1369 2013-05-29 18:12:05 <sipa> i don't see how it can be triggered except by the literal combination {getwork,getblocktemplate} + Bitcoin-Qt + server=0
1370 2013-05-29 18:12:24 <gavinandresen> well, the easy fix is two lines of code in getwork / getblocktemplate:  if (pMiningKey == NULL) pMiningKey = new CReserveKey(pWalletMain);
1371 2013-05-29 18:12:26 <michagogo> BTW, I may have asked this before and forgotten, but when do you add new checkpoints?
1372 2013-05-29 18:12:51 <gavinandresen> michagogo: new checkpoints approximately every-other-release
1373 2013-05-29 18:13:04 da2ce7 has joined
1374 2013-05-29 18:13:11 <sipa> ;;blocks
1375 2013-05-29 18:13:12 <gribble> 238555
1376 2013-05-29 18:13:23 <sipa> hmm, it's been 13k blocks since the last checkpoint
1377 2013-05-29 18:13:46 <jgarzik> we were talking about a post-fork checkpoint
1378 2013-05-29 18:13:57 <MC1984> no fork yet
1379 2013-05-29 18:13:58 <jgarzik> are we still not hard forked?
1380 2013-05-29 18:14:01 <jgarzik> ok
1381 2013-05-29 18:14:11 <nsh> wait, sorry, what's key enrolment and why does it require assent from freenode?
1382 2013-05-29 18:14:12 <MC1984> luke is trying, i believe
1383 2013-05-29 18:14:58 <sipa> jgarzik: indeed
1384 2013-05-29 18:15:13 da2ce7_d2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1385 2013-05-29 18:15:33 <sipa> 13k blocks is 1.5 month; seems not long ago enough
1386 2013-05-29 18:15:42 <sipa> wait
1387 2013-05-29 18:15:44 <sipa> 3 months?
1388 2013-05-29 18:15:45 <michagogo> sipa: Not long enough?
1389 2013-05-29 18:15:50 <sipa> for a new checkpoint
1390 2013-05-29 18:15:56 <michagogo> ;;calc 24*60
1391 2013-05-29 18:15:56 <gribble> 1440
1392 2013-05-29 18:16:05 <michagogo> ;;calc 13000/1440
1393 2013-05-29 18:16:06 <gribble> 9.02777777778
1394 2013-05-29 18:16:19 <michagogo> That doesn't look right
1395 2013-05-29 18:16:32 <sipa> ;;calc 13000*600/86400
1396 2013-05-29 18:16:32 <gribble> 90.2777777778
1397 2013-05-29 18:16:36 <sipa> 90 days
1398 2013-05-29 18:16:59 <kaniini> sipa: if only there were a SASL mechanism that involved authenticating a user by paying me with bitcoins
1399 2013-05-29 18:17:00 <gavinandresen> MC1984: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2706
1400 2013-05-29 18:17:03 <kaniini> ;)
1401 2013-05-29 18:17:10 <michagogo> Remind me where the checkpoints are coded?
1402 2013-05-29 18:17:30 <nsh> 2013 so far is about 8.9 minutes per block on average i believe
1403 2013-05-29 18:17:40 <sipa> michagogo: checkpoints.cpp :)
1404 2013-05-29 18:18:07 tyn has joined
1405 2013-05-29 18:18:16 <michagogo> sipa: Thanks
1406 2013-05-29 18:18:39 <michagogo> ;;calc 225430-216116
1407 2013-05-29 18:18:40 <gribble> 9314
1408 2013-05-29 18:18:40 <MC1984> gavinandresen cool
1409 2013-05-29 18:20:22 <michagogo> So last checkpoint was 9k interval, previous ones were 6k, 7k, 25k, 33k, 29k, 31k, 40k, and 22k
1410 2013-05-29 18:20:29 <michagogo> (in reverse chronological order)
1411 2013-05-29 18:20:56 <jgarzik> we occasionally reomve intermediate, more recent checkpoints
1412 2013-05-29 18:20:59 <jgarzik> *remove
1413 2013-05-29 18:21:03 <michagogo> Hmm?
1414 2013-05-29 18:21:30 <michagogo> jgarzik: Why remove them?
1415 2013-05-29 18:21:45 <MC1984> theres no real pattern to checkpoints besides "when it feels right" afaik
1416 2013-05-29 18:21:59 <jgarzik> michagogo, kinda pointless as the middle hashes are guaranteed by later ones
1417 2013-05-29 18:22:00 digitalmagus2 has joined
1418 2013-05-29 18:22:00 digitalmagus2 has quit (Changing host)
1419 2013-05-29 18:22:00 digitalmagus2 has joined
1420 2013-05-29 18:22:01 <MC1984> theres one that ends in 11 because its someones favourite number :>
1421 2013-05-29 18:22:04 sanders has joined
1422 2013-05-29 18:22:07 <michagogo> jgarzik: Though, why do you need anything more than the most recent?
1423 2013-05-29 18:22:08 <jgarzik> michagogo, there is minor value
1424 2013-05-29 18:22:08 <michagogo> Yeah
1425 2013-05-29 18:22:27 atweiden has joined
1426 2013-05-29 18:22:30 <sipa> jgarzik: more frequent checkpoints gives better protection against DoS-attacking a node with orphan blocks during IBD
1427 2013-05-29 18:22:33 <jgarzik> michagogo, the code does check height==hash at each checkpoint, so it helps to notice earlier a bad download
1428 2013-05-29 18:22:49 <jgarzik> sipa, ^ indeed :)
1429 2013-05-29 18:23:02 <sipa> (not because of the reason you gave)
1430 2013-05-29 18:23:22 GordonG3kko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1431 2013-05-29 18:23:29 <michagogo> jgarzik: Ah, I see
1432 2013-05-29 18:24:04 <michagogo> Personally, I think a checkpoint is worth adding
1433 2013-05-29 18:24:08 <michagogo> But maybe that's just me
1434 2013-05-29 18:24:27 tyn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1435 2013-05-29 18:24:34 <UukGoblin> fork
1436 2013-05-29 18:24:41 <jgarzik> My personal preference is for a checkpoint to be no -younger- than 13k blocks
1437 2013-05-29 18:24:47 <jgarzik> But other devs are more aggressive
1438 2013-05-29 18:25:00 <michagogo> jgarzik: What do you mean?
1439 2013-05-29 18:25:09 <nsh> kaniini, what is 'key enrollment' and how does it require freenode to turn it on?
1440 2013-05-29 18:25:17 <michagogo> Ah, as in at least 13k blocks back?
1441 2013-05-29 18:25:23 GordonG3kko has joined
1442 2013-05-29 18:25:24 <jgarzik> michagogo, correct
1443 2013-05-29 18:25:31 <jgarzik> 3 months
1444 2013-05-29 18:25:40 <jgarzik> (144 * 90)
1445 2013-05-29 18:25:49 <michagogo> How long ago was 225430 checkpointed?
1446 2013-05-29 18:25:57 <michagogo> Oh, there's a history button
1447 2013-05-29 18:25:58 tyn has joined
1448 2013-05-29 18:26:37 <michagogo> Looks like that was added 2 months ago
1449 2013-05-29 18:26:55 <gavinandresen> Pushed  * [new tag]         v0.8.2 -> v0.8.2
1450 2013-05-29 18:27:03 <michagogo> OTOH, I guess you can say that was extenuating circumstances
1451 2013-05-29 18:27:23 <michagogo> Since that was right after the chain fork and it was important to cement that in
1452 2013-05-29 18:27:28 <gavinandresen> I'll document the debug-console-getblocktemplate bug in the release notes, we should implement a clean fix for 0.9
1453 2013-05-29 18:27:35 tucenaber has joined
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1455 2013-05-29 18:27:35 tucenaber has joined
1456 2013-05-29 18:28:29 <BlueMatt> aaaaannndd...merge window open :)
1457 2013-05-29 18:28:31 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Okay, lemme get my Ubuntu drive
1458 2013-05-29 18:28:46 bit_kevin has joined
1459 2013-05-29 18:28:54 <kaniini> nsh: i implemented an ECDSA authentication mechanism for services
1460 2013-05-29 18:29:09 <kaniini> nsh: so, freenode in order to allow it, has to turn the module on etc :P
1461 2013-05-29 18:29:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: :)
1462 2013-05-29 18:29:47 damientrog has quit (Quit: damientrog)
1463 2013-05-29 18:31:12 <MC1984> what does the -server operator do again?
1464 2013-05-29 18:31:18 <nsh> oh right. i would be hesitant to mix ircd services codebase with anything pertaining to actual real important money things, on account of irc code being pretty much the absolute favouite thing for hackers to attack, backdoor, DoS, etc.
1465 2013-05-29 18:31:20 <sipa> it starts the RPC server
1466 2013-05-29 18:31:20 <MC1984> allows you to issue RPC calls to QT right
1467 2013-05-29 18:31:21 kyledrak_ is now known as kyledrake
1468 2013-05-29 18:31:24 <MC1984> ok
1469 2013-05-29 18:31:30 <nsh> but i don't know atheme's recent track record or anything, so maybe i'm just being paranoid
1470 2013-05-29 18:32:21 michagogo has quit (Quit: Brb, rebooting into Ubuntu)
1471 2013-05-29 18:32:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I expect you to merge at least 5 pulls in the next 10 minutes
1472 2013-05-29 18:32:43 <warren> sigh boost fail...
1473 2013-05-29 18:32:49 <jgarzik> not until gitian is done
1474 2013-05-29 18:32:56 <jgarzik> sigs match == merge window open :)
1475 2013-05-29 18:32:58 <warren> need kill -9, but it will corrupt the wallet.dat
1476 2013-05-29 18:33:06 <gavinandresen> Somebody please bump the version number to 0.8.2.99 before merge-fest…  (and set the "not a release" flag)
1477 2013-05-29 18:33:08 <BlueMatt> awwww
1478 2013-05-29 18:33:32 <gavinandresen> I'm gitian building, and working on the OSX builds.
1479 2013-05-29 18:33:47 <BlueMatt> also, can we ensure we dont release with 2 sigs this time?
1480 2013-05-29 18:33:54 asa1024 has joined
1481 2013-05-29 18:34:05 <BlueMatt> (ie get the gitian-mandated 3 devs, or change our gitian-mandated threshold)
1482 2013-05-29 18:34:38 <sipa> we may want to wait a *bit*, as often minor bugs show up very shortly after full release...
1483 2013-05-29 18:34:53 <sipa> though that can be solved with a simply backfork fix of course
1484 2013-05-29 18:34:55 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure, I'm all for being more strict for final releases
1485 2013-05-29 18:35:20 <gavinandresen> sipa still can't gitian-sign, though (right?)
1486 2013-05-29 18:35:29 * BlueMatt can, but not for a few hours
1487 2013-05-29 18:35:42 <sipa> gavinandresen: indeed, not until saturday
1488 2013-05-29 18:35:52 michagogo has joined
1489 2013-05-29 18:36:08 <gavinandresen> me, BlueMatt, Luke-Jr would be three
1490 2013-05-29 18:36:37 <jgarzik> ditto here.  not today, but RSN hopefully.
1491 2013-05-29 18:36:52 * jgarzik expected tagging to happen Thu/Fri honestly
1492 2013-05-29 18:37:00 michagogo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1493 2013-05-29 18:37:04 <gavinandresen> I'll be unavailable this weekend (funeral, my father-in-law died yesterday)
1494 2013-05-29 18:37:38 <jgarzik> sorry to hear :(
1495 2013-05-29 18:37:46 <denisx> ;(
1496 2013-05-29 18:38:04 <petertodd> gavinandresen: sorry to hear that
1497 2013-05-29 18:38:25 <sipa> gavinandresen: :(
1498 2013-05-29 18:38:34 <gavinandresen> thanks
1499 2013-05-29 18:39:26 michagogo has joined
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1505 2013-05-29 18:40:08 <Joker_> Hello!
1506 2013-05-29 18:40:47 <Joker_> I have problem with compile in QT5
1507 2013-05-29 18:41:13 [BNC]dansmith is now known as hoop
1508 2013-05-29 18:41:14 <sipa> That's expected, as the source isn't Qt5 compliant (yet).
1509 2013-05-29 18:41:55 FredEE has joined
1510 2013-05-29 18:42:07 <michagogo> Okay, gitian's booting up lucid
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1519 2013-05-29 18:45:14 dansmith_btc has joined
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1521 2013-05-29 18:46:53 <Joker_> what version of QT's needed to build?
1522 2013-05-29 18:47:12 hoop is now known as dansmith_btc
1523 2013-05-29 18:47:22 <sipa> 4.8.3 is currently used, afaik
1524 2013-05-29 18:47:30 <sipa> and likely preety much any 4.8 will work
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1526 2013-05-29 18:47:31 dansmith_btc has joined
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1528 2013-05-29 18:47:44 <Joker_> thanx
1529 2013-05-29 18:47:45 <sipa> there's a pullreq to add Qt5 support, which will likely be merged soon
1530 2013-05-29 18:47:52 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1531 2013-05-29 18:48:14 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
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1533 2013-05-29 18:49:31 gjj has joined
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1535 2013-05-29 18:51:58 <warren> Is the openssl from 2009 static linked in bitcoin a security risk?
1536 2013-05-29 18:52:17 <gavinandresen> no
1537 2013-05-29 18:52:43 <warren> the parts of openssl we use haven't had issues I guess
1538 2013-05-29 18:52:48 agath_pd has joined
1539 2013-05-29 18:53:08 <jgarzik> well there is RPC SSL.  the other bits (ecdsa, sha) are pretty static.
1540 2013-05-29 18:53:10 agath has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1541 2013-05-29 18:53:32 <jgarzik> RPC SSL from 2009-era code might have a vulnerability or two…  but RPC itself requires a password and security, so no huge threat model.
1542 2013-05-29 18:53:46 <warren> I see.  thanks.
1543 2013-05-29 18:54:28 <dansmith_btc> Hello, Is it possible to create a 2-of-3 tx without exposing all 3 private keys to a single party? Can Alice add her key, pass on to Bob who add a key and pass on to Carol?
1544 2013-05-29 18:54:54 <jgarzik> dansmith_btc, sure.
1545 2013-05-29 18:55:09 <michagogo> Linux done building, windows running now
1546 2013-05-29 18:55:12 <jgarzik> dansmith_btc, pass around unsigned or partially signed transactions
1547 2013-05-29 18:55:16 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1548 2013-05-29 18:55:22 <dansmith_btc> jgarzik, great!
1549 2013-05-29 18:55:37 <jgarzik> IMO we need better support for collecting/signing partially signed transactions right now.  It is an out of band, manual process.
1550 2013-05-29 18:55:40 <jgarzik> But yes, it works.
1551 2013-05-29 18:55:42 gjj has joined
1552 2013-05-29 18:57:44 <gavinandresen> I just pushed my 0.8.2 gitian sigs
1553 2013-05-29 18:57:58 <michagogo> I will as soon as the win32 build finishes
1554 2013-05-29 18:58:13 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
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1557 2013-05-29 19:01:26 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1560 2013-05-29 19:05:09 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Done
1561 2013-05-29 19:05:09 ovidiusoft has joined
1562 2013-05-29 19:05:57 Joker1 has joined
1563 2013-05-29 19:06:27 <michagogo> https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/7
1564 2013-05-29 19:07:20 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: oh, fyi: I messed up the code and the testnet alert didnt go out the first time, but it did go out last week (negative priority, so I dont think anyone actually saw it...), and they should be going out properly now
1565 2013-05-29 19:07:31 <BlueMatt> should get one tomorrow
1566 2013-05-29 19:07:50 * Diablo-D3 looks at scrypt
1567 2013-05-29 19:07:56 <Diablo-D3> no wonder litecoin used it wrong
1568 2013-05-29 19:08:53 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: awesome!
1569 2013-05-29 19:08:56 <Diablo-D3> where the fuck in the paper does it explain what N, R, and P are for
1570 2013-05-29 19:09:12 owowo has joined
1571 2013-05-29 19:09:22 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Comment on the PR or something if there are any problems -- I g2g for now.
1572 2013-05-29 19:09:42 michagogo has quit (Quit: Quit message? What quit message?)
1573 2013-05-29 19:10:29 Joker1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1576 2013-05-29 19:14:46 <Diablo-D3> oh, the paper calls it K, L, N
1577 2013-05-29 19:14:52 <Diablo-D3> not N, R, P
1578 2013-05-29 19:15:01 rbecker is now known as RBecker
1579 2013-05-29 19:17:24 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1580 2013-05-29 19:17:50 gjj has joined
1581 2013-05-29 19:18:16 <gavinandresen> michagogo's gitian build matches mine. I'm going to upload binaries to sourceforge, but will hold off announcing until we get more matches.
1582 2013-05-29 19:21:20 resinate has joined
1583 2013-05-29 19:21:56 <sturles> Is there a way to validate a transaction created with creatrawtransaction?
1584 2013-05-29 19:22:21 <sturles> I guess my client will drop it if it isn't standard?
1585 2013-05-29 19:22:42 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, +1
1586 2013-05-29 19:23:30 <jgarzik> sturles, one RPC does check… decoderawtransaction maybe?
1587 2013-05-29 19:23:34 * jgarzik tries to remember which one
1588 2013-05-29 19:23:35 <sipa> sturles: sendrawtransaction does relay checks
1589 2013-05-29 19:23:49 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
1590 2013-05-29 19:23:58 <sipa> i.e., if your node wouldn't relay the transaction if received from another node, it doesn't expect it with sendrawtransaction either
1591 2013-05-29 19:24:06 <gavinandresen> signrawtransaction will check input signatures, and give you "complete : true" if they're all OK
1592 2013-05-29 19:24:11 <sturles> Trying to get rid of some dust.  bitcoind isn't very helpful with that when I send normal transactions.  Just collects more just a tad larger than 0.01 BTC.
1593 2013-05-29 19:24:38 <jgarzik> heh, we need a manual 'sweepdust' RPC ;p
1594 2013-05-29 19:24:51 <sturles> Would be very helpful!
1595 2013-05-29 19:25:35 BCB has quit (Killed (herbert.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
1596 2013-05-29 19:25:50 <gavinandresen> start with contrib/spendfrom, shouldn't be hard to create a contrib/sweepdust utility
1597 2013-05-29 19:25:54 BCB- has joined
1598 2013-05-29 19:26:20 <kjj> gavinandresen: writing one good enough to release to the public is another story
1599 2013-05-29 19:26:35 <sturles> hex from the signed transaction is > 1k.  Hopeless without a fee then?
1600 2013-05-29 19:26:56 <sipa> sturles: no, up to 10k or 15k can be free, but there may be other reason why a fee is enforced
1601 2013-05-29 19:26:58 CodeShark has joined
1602 2013-05-29 19:27:39 <sturles> I couldn't get contrib/spendfrom to work.  RuntimeError: JSON encode/decode loses precision
1603 2013-05-29 19:27:44 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1604 2013-05-29 19:28:19 bcb has joined
1605 2013-05-29 19:28:24 asdasd has joined
1606 2013-05-29 19:29:00 <gavinandresen> sturles: interesting! what system you running on?
1607 2013-05-29 19:29:43 <sturles> Kind of Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS...
1608 2013-05-29 19:29:51 <gavinandresen> 32-bit?
1609 2013-05-29 19:29:55 <sturles> 64 bit.
1610 2013-05-29 19:30:06 <dugo> so far no complaints with running bitcoin qt rc3 on os x 10.8.3
1611 2013-05-29 19:30:16 <sturles> Started out as Debian ancient, and has been dist-upgraded more than a few times..
1612 2013-05-29 19:30:30 <BlueMatt> loses precision...uh oh
1613 2013-05-29 19:32:19 <gavinandresen> sturles: I don't know nuthin about python JSON libraries on Ubuntu 10.04.4, sounds like they're not supporting double-precision JSON numbers for some reason
1614 2013-05-29 19:33:11 <sturles> ii python-simplejson 2.0.9-1build1
1615 2013-05-29 19:33:21 tholenst has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1616 2013-05-29 19:33:26 * jgarzik wonders if it supports Decimal, that far back
1617 2013-05-29 19:33:29 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1618 2013-05-29 19:34:29 wrabbit has joined
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1622 2013-05-29 19:37:05 paracyst has joined
1623 2013-05-29 19:37:29 <sturles> Installed python-cjason and python-anyjson.  No change.
1624 2013-05-29 19:38:57 <BlueMatt> oooooooo videos
1625 2013-05-29 19:38:57 <BlueMatt> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUOP0P68GJ3BGjfqoLLnzAefk3ZzXQtJ7
1626 2013-05-29 19:40:06 normanrichards has joined
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1629 2013-05-29 19:43:02 <sturles> Bah.  I'll just send it.  Hope the entire network doesn't go in a *poff* of blue smoke.  If my client accepts it, it will probably get confirmed sooner or later.
1630 2013-05-29 19:43:12 <sturles> I hope.
1631 2013-05-29 19:43:46 <sturles> Darn.  Wants a fee.  error: {"code":-22,"message":"TX rejected"}
1632 2013-05-29 19:44:59 richcollins has joined
1633 2013-05-29 19:46:14 <BlueMatt> anyone spare some tn3 coins mhh538nzf7nifTQb7VYoLfqrBHxgR8LGtv
1634 2013-05-29 19:47:20 agath_pd is now known as agath
1635 2013-05-29 19:47:51 LainZ has joined
1636 2013-05-29 19:48:11 <BlueMatt> actually, anyone wanna spare some testnet mining power?
1637 2013-05-29 19:48:57 <petertodd> BlueMatt: how soon do you need it?
1638 2013-05-29 19:49:07 <BlueMatt> meh, I may just go home
1639 2013-05-29 19:49:13 <BlueMatt> so...tomorrow?
1640 2013-05-29 19:49:30 <petertodd> I can do that, msg me in the evening est time
1641 2013-05-29 19:50:26 <sipa> that would be... in 2.5 hours?
1642 2013-05-29 19:50:30 <BlueMatt> can I just email you now and forget about it?
1643 2013-05-29 19:50:36 normanrichards has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1644 2013-05-29 19:50:42 <petertodd> sipa: I mean tomorrow
1645 2013-05-29 19:50:46 <petertodd> BlueMatt: sure
1646 2013-05-29 19:51:00 <BlueMatt> hmm...can you just email yourself now and I forget about it? :p
1647 2013-05-29 19:52:38 <petertodd> BlueMatt: pff, you gotta do at least some work...
1648 2013-05-29 19:53:02 <BlueMatt> whats your email?
1649 2013-05-29 19:53:13 <TheUni> sipa: ping
1650 2013-05-29 19:53:16 <BlueMatt> (damn phone clients with lack of auto-remember)
1651 2013-05-29 19:53:29 gjj has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
1652 2013-05-29 19:53:34 <petertodd> pete@petertodd.org
1653 2013-05-29 19:53:55 gjj has joined
1654 2013-05-29 19:53:59 <BlueMatt> ok, thanks
1655 2013-05-29 19:54:09 <sipa> TheUni: pong
1656 2013-05-29 19:54:28 <TheUni> sipa: you happen to catch my ping in the backlog last night?
1657 2013-05-29 19:54:41 * BlueMatt -> out
1658 2013-05-29 19:55:55 <sipa> TheUni: i don't mind having a look, but i expect i won't care about the changes :)
1659 2013-05-29 19:56:52 <TheUni> sipa: well as i said.. i've become invested in it, and i want to be sure there's a path for merge before getting too far into it
1660 2013-05-29 19:57:11 <Diablo-D3> meh I cant read apparently, it IS n r p
1661 2013-05-29 19:57:27 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
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1663 2013-05-29 19:59:03 <TheUni> sipa: ok, i'll try to push up a branch tonight
1664 2013-05-29 19:59:30 <TheUni> i think it probably only works in linux for now, i'd like to get it up under darwin as well first
1665 2013-05-29 19:59:50 <TheUni> sipa: is there a procedure for RFCs like this? Do you guys use github for concept review at all?
1666 2013-05-29 20:00:59 <sipa> TheUni: bitcoin-development mailing list or the forums for discussions that are necessary before implementation
1667 2013-05-29 20:01:17 asdasd has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1668 2013-05-29 20:01:30 <sipa> though that is perhaps more for changes that impact more than just the reference client project
1669 2013-05-29 20:01:38 <TheUni> sipa: great, thanks
1670 2013-05-29 20:01:42 <sipa> in general, if you can show it works, submit a pullreq
1671 2013-05-29 20:02:52 <TheUni> well i mainly want to hear from the -1's at this point, i'm trying to figure out how to get their attention
1672 2013-05-29 20:03:43 <sipa> afaik the only argument against i've heard is from wumpus, "i don't like autotools"
1673 2013-05-29 20:04:13 <jgarzik> autotools is like democracy
1674 2013-05-29 20:04:21 <jgarzik> it's the worst system around, except for all the others ;p
1675 2013-05-29 20:04:26 <maaku> i can't imagine how autotools is worse than the current situation, however
1676 2013-05-29 20:04:34 <sipa> maaku: ACK
1677 2013-05-29 20:04:43 <sipa> and i think pretty much everyone agrees with that
1678 2013-05-29 20:04:46 <jgarzik> autotools buys you integration into a bunch of package managers
1679 2013-05-29 20:04:52 <jgarzik> maaku, +1
1680 2013-05-29 20:05:02 <sipa> build systems is just something we all hate, so we prefer avoid touching it
1681 2013-05-29 20:05:12 <jgarzik> all the Linux package managers, and some Solaris/BSD have support for it
1682 2013-05-29 20:05:22 <TheUni> jgarzik: yep, i agree. autotools is a nightmare..
1683 2013-05-29 20:05:28 <TheUni> but it's one that everyone has learned to live with
1684 2013-05-29 20:05:28 <sipa> i'm really glad someone steps up to work on it; my only fear is that it doesn't get completed
1685 2013-05-29 20:05:37 <jgarzik> +1
1686 2013-05-29 20:05:52 <jgarzik> sipa, though honestly I do not see any need for code changes, to get autotools working
1687 2013-05-29 20:05:52 ASdo2 has joined
1688 2013-05-29 20:06:02 <TheUni> jgarzik: there are only a handful
1689 2013-05-29 20:06:06 <TheUni> i have a pr in for 1 of them
1690 2013-05-29 20:06:11 <sipa> jgarzik: well they aren't _necessary_
1691 2013-05-29 20:06:16 <sipa> but they're a nice cleanup in any case
1692 2013-05-29 20:06:19 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1694 2013-05-29 20:06:25 <TheUni> there are 2 more necessary. i could go ahead and pr them as well if desired
1695 2013-05-29 20:06:29 <ASdo2> Is bitcoinj stable enough?
1696 2013-05-29 20:06:32 <sipa> there is no reason why the core code needs to know which frontend runs on top
1697 2013-05-29 20:06:33 <jgarzik> the current pull request seems more like minor wankering, but not enough to NAK, if it buys us autotools in the end
1698 2013-05-29 20:06:39 <jgarzik> *wanking
1699 2013-05-29 20:06:55 <jgarzik> cleanups are nice, but low prio, and not necessary for autotools
1700 2013-05-29 20:07:10 <TheUni> jgarzik: well, the other two are also minor wankering, then :)
1701 2013-05-29 20:07:16 <sipa> i wish they were higher prio :)
1702 2013-05-29 20:07:48 <sipa> afk
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1704 2013-05-29 20:08:02 <TheUni> jgarzik: put it this way.. i had an interest in hacking on bitcoin, but i couldn't build for my arch without making a time investment, so i was put off
1705 2013-05-29 20:08:20 <TheUni> i figure this work might spare a few of those losses in the future
1706 2013-05-29 20:08:22 <jgarzik> as noted, autotools is a useful addition
1707 2013-05-29 20:08:27 ThomasV_ has joined
1708 2013-05-29 20:08:28 <jgarzik> and worth putting up with wanking ;p
1709 2013-05-29 20:08:45 <TheUni> heh ok. i'll push the other two out then
1710 2013-05-29 20:09:00 <TheUni> they may seem minor, but they're critical for getting the base changes done
1711 2013-05-29 20:09:08 <jgarzik> Just need to see autotools working in the end
1712 2013-05-29 20:09:22 <wallet43> sipa: is there a ref implementation  i d like to compare it to my python implementation cuz its not producing the same outputs than in the wiki
1713 2013-05-29 20:09:23 <jgarzik> TheUni, I disagree they are necessary for autotoolss, but whatever
1714 2013-05-29 20:09:33 <wallet43> (bip 0032)
1715 2013-05-29 20:09:36 <jgarzik> TheUni, cleanups move us slowly in the right direction
1716 2013-05-29 20:09:46 <TheUni> jgarzik: ok, necessary for keeping up my motivation to finish, then :)
1717 2013-05-29 20:09:55 <jgarzik> :)
1718 2013-05-29 20:10:52 <TheUni> jgarzik: i've nuked qmake for building. that's the one where i fear backlash
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1721 2013-05-29 20:11:28 <jgarzik> TheUni, note it's easy to dive down the rat-hole of constant cleanups.  All devs universally agree on the need for further cleanups, splits, etc.  But the bigger the cleanup, the bigger the risk.  It's a balance.  Huge code movements are sometimes needed, but nearly impossible to review for malicious or dumb changes.
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1727 2013-05-29 20:12:28 <TheUni> jgarzik: understood. i'm doing my best to touch as little as possible. there have been dozens of things i'd like to change along the way, but i'm intentionally keeping them clunky/broken in order to avoid straying from the initial goal
1728 2013-05-29 20:13:23 <jgarzik> TheUni, FWIW I've autoconf'd several packages and even contributed a tiny bit to the upstream codebase.  Definitely consider myself an expert, and will be reviewing your changes closely.
1729 2013-05-29 20:13:44 whiterabbit has joined
1730 2013-05-29 20:13:50 <jgarzik> TheUni,  It's also nice, as "autotool bitcoin" is an item on my todo list, that you are helping to check off.
1731 2013-05-29 20:13:58 <TheUni> jgarzik: that's great, exactly what i wanted to hear :)
1732 2013-05-29 20:14:05 <dugo> BlueMatt: trusty old cpu fired up again and d96680eb6ba3cca3f7a09f4c86264e5298a80143b88993299530e52ad2332b60 your way
1733 2013-05-29 20:15:16 mollison1 has joined
1734 2013-05-29 20:15:18 <TheUni> jgarzik: i've done a few others as well, and i have thick skin. if i'm not doing something correctly, i want to know about it. so, looking forward to it
1735 2013-05-29 20:15:35 <TheUni> ok, enough talk. back to dayjob. will try to get an rfc up in the next few days
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1739 2013-05-29 20:16:27 <dugo> BlueMatt: muugkwz3cwi9Mim17exrKMeXJGmQZHVZpj if you feel like returning
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1758 2013-05-29 20:19:22 Musk has left ()
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1760 2013-05-29 20:21:11 clarkm has joined
1761 2013-05-29 20:21:34 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1762 2013-05-29 20:21:41 <BlueMatt> dugo: thanks, Ill probably send it back to a faucet as thats where I got the other coins (just wanted to get them confirmed) and I'm too lazy to remember an address...if you want them back, go to a faucet? :p
1763 2013-05-29 20:22:20 upplacek has joined
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1765 2013-05-29 20:24:43 K1773R has joined
1766 2013-05-29 20:25:02 <dugo> all good
1767 2013-05-29 20:26:34 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1768 2013-05-29 20:30:59 upplacek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1769 2013-05-29 20:31:06 rumpler has quit ()
1770 2013-05-29 20:31:16 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: sorry I'm late, I'll build now
1771 2013-05-29 20:31:29 rumpler has joined
1772 2013-05-29 20:31:31 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: thanks!
1773 2013-05-29 20:31:32 bcb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1774 2013-05-29 20:31:32 BCB- is now known as BCB
1775 2013-05-29 20:31:36 <BlueMatt> building
1776 2013-05-29 20:32:02 BCB is now known as Guest9469
1777 2013-05-29 20:33:36 richcollins has joined
1778 2013-05-29 20:33:38 <Luke-Jr> did something change in the gitian descriptors?
1779 2013-05-29 20:33:53 <Luke-Jr> ah, nm
1780 2013-05-29 20:34:00 <Luke-Jr> my apt-cacher thing wasn't running
1781 2013-05-29 20:35:10 ouiea has joined
1782 2013-05-29 20:35:55 Guest14712 is now known as nym
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1786 2013-05-29 20:40:13 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1787 2013-05-29 20:40:14 santoscork has quit (Quit: Quiet while I make like a cat)
1788 2013-05-29 20:40:58 <[7]> hm, my bitcoind is eating up a whole CPU core
1789 2013-05-29 20:41:06 <[7]> more specifically the "bitcoin-rpchand" thread
1790 2013-05-29 20:42:06 <BlueMatt> mining?
1791 2013-05-29 20:42:11 <BlueMatt> getblocktemplate?
1792 2013-05-29 20:42:26 <[7]> I don't know of any RPC clients that would be doing anything with it right now
1793 2013-05-29 20:42:47 <BlueMatt> ehhhh...wat?
1794 2013-05-29 20:43:04 <[7]> the only thing that's connected to it is an idling p2pool node, that doesn't have any clients
1795 2013-05-29 20:43:42 twobitcoins has joined
1796 2013-05-29 20:44:33 <Luke-Jr> [7]: I expect p2pool generates work even when it has no clients of its own
1797 2013-05-29 20:44:56 <[7]> nevertheless that shouldn't eat a full core...
1798 2013-05-29 20:45:05 <[7]> let me stop that p2pool instance
1799 2013-05-29 20:45:39 <dugo> it's eating cpu calculating midstate and stuff then?
1800 2013-05-29 20:45:53 <[7]> that would be p2pool's job, not bitcoind's...
1801 2013-05-29 20:46:52 twobitcoins_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1802 2013-05-29 20:47:37 taha has joined
1803 2013-05-29 20:48:24 <Luke-Jr> [7]: a single GBT call on bitcoind right now will eat 100% CPU for hours in some cases..
1804 2013-05-29 20:48:53 <[7]> hm, that doesn't sound good?
1805 2013-05-29 20:48:57 <[7]> why would it do that?
1806 2013-05-29 20:49:47 <Luke-Jr> [7]: the code is horribly inefficient and there's no easy solution? ☺
1807 2013-05-29 20:50:12 * [7] is just wondering how the code could be *that* inefficient in the first place? what's it doing?
1808 2013-05-29 20:50:20 ouiea has left ()
1809 2013-05-29 20:50:23 <Luke-Jr> sipa did some optimizations for 0.8.2, but part of that is incompatible with actual improvemnets :/
1810 2013-05-29 20:50:38 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1811 2013-05-29 20:50:54 <Luke-Jr> [7]: it's calculating the priorities of all transactions in the mempool, sorting them (taking inputs into account), etc
1812 2013-05-29 20:52:26 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1813 2013-05-29 20:52:30 <[7]> hm... I would have expected the memory pool to be some kind of pre-sorted structure...
1814 2013-05-29 20:53:05 GordonG3kko has joined
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1821 2013-05-29 21:02:17 <TheLordOfTime> any plans to be able to list balances for each address on the "Receive coins" screen for bitcoin-qt?
1822 2013-05-29 21:03:14 gjj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1823 2013-05-29 21:04:26 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1824 2013-05-29 21:04:53 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: all sigs match, pushing
1825 2013-05-29 21:05:08 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: excellent
1826 2013-05-29 21:06:03 X-Scale has joined
1827 2013-05-29 21:06:12 * BlueMatt got mentioned in gavin's state of the coin...now my life is complete :)
1828 2013-05-29 21:06:46 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: should I push to the ppa now, or tomorrow?
1829 2013-05-29 21:06:52 <gavinandresen> tomorrow
1830 2013-05-29 21:06:57 <BlueMatt> ok
1831 2013-05-29 21:07:29 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I even remembered your name….
1832 2013-05-29 21:07:33 peetaur2 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1833 2013-05-29 21:07:37 <BlueMatt> heh, sorry mike
1834 2013-05-29 21:08:14 <BlueMatt> funny, mike likely deserved more of the credit than I did...oh well
1835 2013-05-29 21:09:02 <BlueMatt> wait, btc foundation doesnt yet do multisig for btc storage???
1836 2013-05-29 21:09:50 brocktice has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1837 2013-05-29 21:10:03 brocktice has joined
1838 2013-05-29 21:10:16 gmaxwell has joined
1839 2013-05-29 21:10:40 gmaxwell is now known as Guest11201
1840 2013-05-29 21:10:48 <dansmith_btc> Hi, can signrawtransaction be emulated with signmessage?
1841 2013-05-29 21:10:51 tholenst has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1842 2013-05-29 21:11:01 <gavinandresen> dansmith_btc: no, by design.
1843 2013-05-29 21:11:27 <dansmith_btc> sad
1844 2013-05-29 21:11:28 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, foundation uses cold storage single-signature for its coins
1845 2013-05-29 21:12:01 <BlueMatt> :(
1846 2013-05-29 21:12:17 Guest11201 has quit (Changing host)
1847 2013-05-29 21:12:17 Guest11201 has joined
1848 2013-05-29 21:12:40 Guest11201 is now known as gmaxwell
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1851 2013-05-29 21:14:47 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: re: "btc foundation will hire more tech people": what does "tech people" mean? programmers?
1852 2013-05-29 21:14:58 ThomasV has joined
1853 2013-05-29 21:15:01 <BlueMatt> (and can I officially vote that at least one be required to work on testing full-time?)
1854 2013-05-29 21:15:15 Neozonz has joined
1855 2013-05-29 21:16:59 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: one 'senior level' and one 'junior level' developer person.  I want one of them to be in charge of QA; we need a QA lead who recruits or bribes or hires QA testers
1856 2013-05-29 21:18:01 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1857 2013-05-29 21:19:04 brson has joined
1858 2013-05-29 21:19:58 * BlueMatt votes they paid per test-case/bug
1859 2013-05-29 21:20:04 seeingidog__ has joined
1860 2013-05-29 21:21:25 gruvfunk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1861 2013-05-29 21:21:56 <gavinandresen> paying to run through a test plan worked pretty well (with verification by asking them to submit their debug.logs)
1862 2013-05-29 21:22:51 * BlueMatt votes for more automated integration testing instead of processes which users will run (which could be run automatically...)
1863 2013-05-29 21:23:12 caedes has joined
1864 2013-05-29 21:23:53 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
1865 2013-05-29 21:24:12 * gavinandresen votes for both
1866 2013-05-29 21:25:11 <BlueMatt> did you know we have a qt test suite?
1867 2013-05-29 21:25:31 <BlueMatt> (and if we actually used it, it could automate all kinds of fun click stuff using qt's framework)
1868 2013-05-29 21:26:10 <warren> gavinandresen: how do you feel about Google's bug bounties?  If people find vulnerabilities in Chrome and disclose privately to Google they get money.
1869 2013-05-29 21:27:22 nimdAHK_ has joined
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1871 2013-05-29 21:27:34 <dugo> there is a test plan?
1872 2013-05-29 21:27:34 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure, my paymentserver branch adds some qt tests for the paymentserver code
1873 2013-05-29 21:27:42 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: … it still needs manual user testing, though.
1874 2013-05-29 21:27:45 <BlueMatt> hey, that makes two of us aware of it
1875 2013-05-29 21:28:15 hneio has joined
1876 2013-05-29 21:28:25 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yes, but my point is a dedicated test-writer could actually make it useful
1877 2013-05-29 21:28:29 <gavinandresen> warren: too much on my plate to handle a bug bounty program, but if you want to start/run one....
1878 2013-05-29 21:29:03 <warren> gavinandresen: I was responding to your "I want one of them to be in charge of QA; we need a QA lead who recruits or bribes or hires QA testers"
1879 2013-05-29 21:29:03 <BlueMatt> (oh, random fact, your math on output size for min dist size is off by like a byte or two)
1880 2013-05-29 21:29:08 <BlueMatt> dont remember exact number
1881 2013-05-29 21:29:14 <BlueMatt> (min dist is actually higher)
1882 2013-05-29 21:29:34 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: min dist?  What is this min dist?  min dust ?
1883 2013-05-29 21:29:42 <BlueMatt> minimum dust output value thinggy
1884 2013-05-29 21:29:56 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1885 2013-05-29 21:30:02 <gavinandresen> oh.  Well there's a big old 30% fudge-factor anyway….
1886 2013-05-29 21:30:12 <BlueMatt> meh, its like 1 byte or so
1887 2013-05-29 21:30:12 <phantomcircuit> trying to build with --std=c++0x on debian 7.0 (wheezy)
1888 2013-05-29 21:30:15 nimdAHK has quit (Disconnected by services)
1889 2013-05-29 21:30:19 hneio is now known as nimdAHK
1890 2013-05-29 21:30:20 <warren> gavinandresen: If the foundation has a budget for a bug bounty coordinator and to fund "responsible disclosure" bug bounties it may do much to protect the network.  I am not volunteering to be that coordinator at this time.
1891 2013-05-29 21:30:24 <phantomcircuit> there was expected random things like operator" unrecognized for string literals
1892 2013-05-29 21:30:40 <BlueMatt> "A typical txout is 33 bytes big" I think its 34 or maybe it was 35
1893 2013-05-29 21:30:46 seeingidog__ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1894 2013-05-29 21:30:54 <gavinandresen> warren: that reminds me, we need a responsible disclosure process page on bitcoin.org ....
1895 2013-05-29 21:31:00 <phantomcircuit> but now im getting a boost linker error
1896 2013-05-29 21:31:01 <phantomcircuit> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=HfsyggbC
1897 2013-05-29 21:31:12 <dugo> shouldnt there be something like an rcnet without the sillyness testnet allows for testing?
1898 2013-05-29 21:31:24 <phantomcircuit> both libboost_system and filesystem are installed
1899 2013-05-29 21:31:34 damientrog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1900 2013-05-29 21:32:00 <gavinandresen> dugo: there should be a lot of things, so if you see something that needs doing, then please go do it.
1901 2013-05-29 21:32:07 nimdAHK_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1902 2013-05-29 21:33:18 <warren> gavinandresen: FYI, if it isn't obvious, I'm trying to bring some semblance of professionalism to Litecoin dev.  Not because I favor Litecoin over Bitcoin, but because there was a temporary market opportunity to get paid for technical work.  In the process I'm pushing bugs and any fixes I manage to find to Bitcoin.  I hope to get more involved with upstream in the long-term.
1903 2013-05-29 21:34:07 <gavinandresen> warren: good
1904 2013-05-29 21:35:53 Tantadruj has joined
1905 2013-05-29 21:37:14 * Luke-Jr wonders what country is using blockchain.info as evidence :/
1906 2013-05-29 21:37:26 <Luke-Jr> btw, 0.8.2 final sigs matched
1907 2013-05-29 21:37:30 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, ?
1908 2013-05-29 21:37:35 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2653
1909 2013-05-29 21:37:41 damientrog has joined
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1911 2013-05-29 21:38:31 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, clearly he should sue blockchain.info
1912 2013-05-29 21:38:49 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: nice!  So we've got 4 sets of matching sigs. I'm about to disappear to a little league game for a few hours, anybody able to announce 0.8.2 final for me?
1913 2013-05-29 21:38:51 <phantomcircuit> they're based in the UK a defamation suit would be completely proper under the circumstances
1914 2013-05-29 21:39:30 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: eh, I guess I could, but someone else would need to do the uploads?
1915 2013-05-29 21:39:57 Julius129 has joined
1916 2013-05-29 21:40:58 <Luke-Jr> is there something to actually be done for the announcement? release-notes.md looks reasonably up to date?
1917 2013-05-29 21:41:11 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1918 2013-05-29 21:41:15 <gavinandresen> I've got time to post to bitcoin-development and bitcointalk and tweet, if somebody else can update the wiki and bitcoin.org homepage links
1919 2013-05-29 21:41:33 <Luke-Jr> k
1920 2013-05-29 21:41:57 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: want a ppa push?
1921 2013-05-29 21:42:01 damientrog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1922 2013-05-29 21:42:04 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1923 2013-05-29 21:42:14 seeingidog__ has joined
1924 2013-05-29 21:42:24 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: okey dokey
1925 2013-05-29 21:42:41 <gavinandresen> (I don't know nuthin about ppas)
1926 2013-05-29 21:43:03 Muis__ is now known as Muis
1927 2013-05-29 21:43:04 <BlueMatt> yea, Ill do it...
1928 2013-05-29 21:44:42 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1929 2013-05-29 21:45:02 <warren> [warren@newcaprica SOURCES]$ litecoind help
1930 2013-05-29 21:45:02 <warren> error: couldn't connect to server
1931 2013-05-29 21:45:03 <Luke-Jr> hum, wiki changelog page doesn't even have 0.7.0 yet :/
1932 2013-05-29 21:45:05 normanrichards has joined
1933 2013-05-29 21:45:14 <warren> Does it really need RPC to be able to tell you the available commands? =)
1934 2013-05-29 21:45:27 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
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1940 2013-05-29 21:47:29 <phantomcircuit> jaromil, hello
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1944 2013-05-29 21:50:42 <dugo> Luke-Jr: from what i read doubt he'll see court and this will remain something that was grounds for suspicion, never evidence
1945 2013-05-29 21:50:50 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1946 2013-05-29 21:50:55 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1947 2013-05-29 21:51:19 <dugo> or bs
1948 2013-05-29 21:52:56 <jaromil> phantomcircuit: hey good vibez
1949 2013-05-29 21:53:19 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: defamation how? while bc.i does a lot of misinfo, I think they also only claim the tx was *relayed*  by an IP, which is true
1950 2013-05-29 21:53:37 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1951 2013-05-29 21:54:03 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, they pretty clearly do not do enough to make the information clear
1952 2013-05-29 21:54:09 <phantomcircuit> (as evidenced by what happened)
1953 2013-05-29 21:55:19 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, also im sure he can show direct damages
1954 2013-05-29 21:55:25 <phantomcircuit> should be a pretty easy suit
1955 2013-05-29 21:55:53 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: you're assuming whatever government he's under did everything right
1956 2013-05-29 21:56:19 <Luke-Jr> I'm no anarchist nut, but government abuse is not unheard of
1957 2013-05-29 21:56:48 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, not really the information is ambiguous about what "relay" means
1958 2013-05-29 21:57:06 <phantomcircuit> i could certainly imagine the police reading that and thinking of it in financial and not technical terms
1959 2013-05-29 21:57:13 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: a competent investigator should have resolved the ambiguity
1960 2013-05-29 21:57:35 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, that isn't the bar for defamation though
1961 2013-05-29 21:57:57 <phantomcircuit> the question is whether the interpretation was reasonable
1962 2013-05-29 21:58:00 <phantomcircuit> and i think it was
1963 2013-05-29 21:58:20 <Luke-Jr> perhaps
1964 2013-05-29 21:58:40 <Luke-Jr> I still think the most incompetence in this specific case falls on the investigator though
1965 2013-05-29 21:59:16 tyn has joined
1966 2013-05-29 21:59:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, i agree but there is clearly a problem with the way blockchain.info presents the information they collect
1967 2013-05-29 21:59:43 execut3 has joined
1968 2013-05-29 21:59:43 <phantomcircuit> which is something they have been directly told before
1969 2013-05-29 21:59:56 <MC1984> lol whats this about
1970 2013-05-29 21:59:58 <phantomcircuit> i bet the only way to get them to fix it is to force them to
1971 2013-05-29 21:59:59 <Luke-Jr> I'm not sure anyone has complained about the relay terminology
1972 2013-05-29 22:00:25 <MC1984> that b.i botnet stuff finally causing actual trouble is it
1973 2013-05-29 22:00:37 <Luke-Jr> with the background of PiUK and pretty much anyone here, the interpretation the investigator made was *not* reasonable
1974 2013-05-29 22:00:48 <Luke-Jr> the only argument for it being reasonable would be the investigator's lack of background
1975 2013-05-29 22:01:18 dvide has quit ()
1976 2013-05-29 22:01:22 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1977 2013-05-29 22:01:23 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, "reasonable" applies to the average person
1978 2013-05-29 22:01:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, so it likely would be found be have been reasonable
1979 2013-05-29 22:01:38 wiretapped has joined
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1981 2013-05-29 22:01:54 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: my point is, it would not have occurred to PiUK or probably anyone here, that there was an ambiguity problem
1982 2013-05-29 22:02:06 <Luke-Jr> so there is clearly a lack of ill intent
1983 2013-05-29 22:02:20 <phantomcircuit> huh i have a bitcoind with 121 connections
1984 2013-05-29 22:02:23 kyledrake has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1985 2013-05-29 22:02:26 <phantomcircuit> is it just me or does that seem weird
1986 2013-05-29 22:02:29 <MC1984> Luke-Jr: our libel laws are insane
1987 2013-05-29 22:02:51 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, im fairly certain that a defamation suit in the uk over this would have merit
1988 2013-05-29 22:02:53 * Luke-Jr wonders what jurisdiction bc.i is under anyhow
1989 2013-05-29 22:03:00 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, the united kingdom
1990 2013-05-29 22:03:03 <Luke-Jr> hmm
1991 2013-05-29 22:03:06 <phantomcircuit> otherwise i wouldn't have said anything
1992 2013-05-29 22:03:28 <MC1984> phantomcircuit if someone here crosses the street when they see you coming, you have grounds for libel action
1993 2013-05-29 22:03:31 eculver has joined
1994 2013-05-29 22:03:43 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, sounds about accurate
1995 2013-05-29 22:03:43 <gonffen> Luke-Jr: I've go to disagree that the ambiguity wasn't clear. I've seen people come into #bitcoin asking why blockchain.info says they sent some random transaction.
1996 2013-05-29 22:04:08 <gonffen> Not only that, they usually reject the answer at first. :\
1997 2013-05-29 22:04:13 <gonffen> got to*
1998 2013-05-29 22:04:59 <Luke-Jr> gonffen: that's unrelated to this though
1999 2013-05-29 22:08:15 <MC1984> it is true that the satoshi client is built deterministicly
2000 2013-05-29 22:08:15 X-Scale has left ()
2001 2013-05-29 22:08:23 kyledrake has joined
2002 2013-05-29 22:08:35 <MC1984> so you can simply compil it yourself to see if it matches the official build
2003 2013-05-29 22:09:06 damientrog has joined
2004 2013-05-29 22:10:26 gavinandresen has left ()
2005 2013-05-29 22:11:29 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: are you asking? O.o
2006 2013-05-29 22:11:56 <MC1984> yes. someone told me it was impossible to do that due to compiler stuff
2007 2013-05-29 22:12:13 <MC1984> then i read a commit about making windows builds deterministic again
2008 2013-05-29 22:12:32 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: yes, it's been done this way since 0.4.x
2009 2013-05-29 22:15:16 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2010 2013-05-29 22:15:51 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, there are timestamps and things built into the executables
2011 2013-05-29 22:15:56 <phantomcircuit> how are those handled?
2012 2013-05-29 22:16:09 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: time() is hijacked to always return a constant
2013 2013-05-29 22:16:14 <gmaxwell> MC1984: as luke said. We have greater ninjas working on this than whomever you talked to. ... though it does require you use the same build enviroment. (potentially in a VM)
2014 2013-05-29 22:16:47 <gmaxwell> MC1984: fortunately there is a whole set of tools/instructions to help you actually build an exactly matching VM to do the builds in.
2015 2013-05-29 22:17:01 <Luke-Jr> (or matching-enough, anyhow)
2016 2013-05-29 22:17:16 Learningg has joined
2017 2013-05-29 22:17:17 <MC1984> a VM image?
2018 2013-05-29 22:18:02 <Learningg> hey guys i trying to buy something but i'm 0.04btcs short, any change of a help? like 0,01 ?
2019 2013-05-29 22:18:17 <MC1984> panhandling in dev?
2020 2013-05-29 22:18:24 <MC1984> r u srs m8?
2021 2013-05-29 22:18:28 <phantomcircuit> ha
2022 2013-05-29 22:18:41 <phantomcircuit> Learningg, nobody in here is going to give you $5 just for asking
2023 2013-05-29 22:18:49 <phantomcircuit> please try #bitcoin-millionaires
2024 2013-05-29 22:19:04 <Learningg> kinda yes never done this kind of thing
2025 2013-05-29 22:19:10 <Learningg> is just that i really need
2026 2013-05-29 22:19:16 <Learningg> i can give something in exchangee
2027 2013-05-29 22:19:24 <phantomcircuit> Learningg, -otc
2028 2013-05-29 22:19:36 <MC1984> bitcoin has real value
2029 2013-05-29 22:20:00 <MC1984> understand that, then feel silly
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2037 2013-05-29 22:27:06 <smiddi_> Learningg: maybe someone gives you 0.04btc if you upload a nice video of you asking to youtube
2038 2013-05-29 22:29:20 <Learningg> i can't i haave no cam
2039 2013-05-29 22:29:34 <smiddi_> no cam no btc  :-(
2040 2013-05-29 22:29:37 <Learningg> i just need 0.01
2041 2013-05-29 22:29:41 <Learningg> as help
2042 2013-05-29 22:29:43 tucenaber has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2043 2013-05-29 22:30:24 <smiddi_> Learningg: just use your smartphone
2044 2013-05-29 22:30:40 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2046 2013-05-29 22:31:13 <smiddi_> Learningg: please let us help you
2047 2013-05-29 22:31:36 gjj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2048 2013-05-29 22:31:39 <Learningg> came one men
2049 2013-05-29 22:31:42 * TheLordOfTime sighs
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2070 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> for busy readers: just skip it, you probably won't have time to help either.
2071 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> I am working on adding p2p file exchanging to bitcoinX (basically Armory+colored BTC). This is enables the users to share the color definitions in a distributed way. However, currently it is all pretty vague and would no means survive proper testing.
2072 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> Colour definitions p2p distribution works. It is implemented with
2073 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> libtorrent-rastebar. Clients can retrieve definitions they know of, also
2074 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> they can simply try to pull all of the networks definitions.
2075 2013-05-29 22:44:40 <tubby3> The exchange of coloured coins was implemented by means of a server that
2076 2013-05-29 22:44:41 <tubby3> behaves like a board. I have currently implemented a p2p multicast that
2077 2013-05-29 22:44:42 <tubby3> behaves as follows: "Until offers are matched (buyer and seller) the one
2078 2013-05-29 22:44:42 <tubby3> who finds it warns both of the nodes".
2079 2013-05-29 22:44:43 <tubby3> However, the behaviour of that "multicast" network is not clear to me.
2080 2013-05-29 22:44:43 <tubby3> The basic questions I have are:
2081 2013-05-29 22:44:43 <tubby3> - -Q: Why should I help the network by running an offer matching node
2082 2013-05-29 22:44:44 <tubby3> full time?
2083 2013-05-29 22:44:45 <tubby3> - -Q: Who gets the difference of the two matched offers?
2084 2013-05-29 22:44:59 one_zero has joined
2085 2013-05-29 22:45:21 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
2086 2013-05-29 22:45:21 <gribble> 238588
2087 2013-05-29 22:45:47 <tubby3> All has just been blocked
2088 2013-05-29 22:45:52 <tubby3> how should I paste it?
2089 2013-05-29 22:45:54 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
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2093 2013-05-29 22:46:49 <tubby3> The thing is, I am working on the latest version of bitcoinx
2094 2013-05-29 22:47:21 <tubby3> to include p2p distribution of the color definitions and to include the trading.
2095 2013-05-29 22:47:47 <MC1984> Learningg: shoe on head + timestamp
2096 2013-05-29 22:48:03 brwyatt_ is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt_
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2098 2013-05-29 22:48:19 <tubby3> The trading system currently implemented is lame. It is just a board where nodes write and just read others offers.
2099 2013-05-29 22:48:29 beethove18201 is now known as beethoven8201
2100 2013-05-29 22:48:52 <tubby3> I have a petty system working that just broadcasts all the messages, but I am pretty sure this is not the proper approach.
2101 2013-05-29 22:48:59 <MC1984> dude use pastebin
2102 2013-05-29 22:49:11 <tubby3> ok
2103 2013-05-29 22:50:42 <tubby3> http://pastebin.com/6Rq4XH8y
2104 2013-05-29 22:52:07 richcollins has joined
2105 2013-05-29 22:52:26 <tubby3> if you guys could just check it. I am really lost on what should I do now...
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2108 2013-05-29 22:54:47 <MC1984> Learningg is begging me for money in PM now....
2109 2013-05-29 22:55:10 <MC1984> it would be a shame for him if an op found out about that
2110 2013-05-29 22:55:50 Learningg has quit ()
2111 2013-05-29 22:56:28 <tubby3> Can anyone recommend me literature related to what policies should be desirable on p2p markets?
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2119 2013-05-29 23:02:21 <tubby3> Can anyone recommend me any literature related to p2p market trading? Like nice algorithms to build trust systems, and what information should markets reveal, and so on. Should a p2p market implement things like:  "I want a cut of the deal, so I'll to hide the identity of the offer creator, so, if he needs me, I can impose a  transaction a fee"?
2120 2013-05-29 23:03:04 <donpdonp> tubby3: highlevel concepts like that will probably get a better answer on bitcointalk.org
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2128 2013-05-29 23:11:57 <maaku> tubby3: the miner should get the difference of two matched offers
2129 2013-05-29 23:12:02 <maaku> and that solves your first question too
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2133 2013-05-29 23:13:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, did anybody generate a hard forking block?
2134 2013-05-29 23:13:32 Subo1978_ is now known as Subo1978
2135 2013-05-29 23:13:37 <Luke-Jr> no
2136 2013-05-29 23:13:49 <phantomcircuit> lol
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2139 2013-05-29 23:15:53 <MC1984> Luke-Jr couldnt you do one manually?
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2141 2013-05-29 23:16:31 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, they were trying to
2142 2013-05-29 23:16:36 <phantomcircuit> apparently harder than it looks
2143 2013-05-29 23:16:47 <phantomcircuit> i was trying to do it with testnet and failed
2144 2013-05-29 23:16:58 <phantomcircuit> my bitcoind instance crashed trying to sign the transaction i generated
2145 2013-05-29 23:17:00 <MC1984> why? no one cares about fees, just make a block template with ALL THE TXN
2146 2013-05-29 23:17:07 <MC1984> should get it eventually
2147 2013-05-29 23:17:40 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, it's more complicated than that
2148 2013-05-29 23:18:17 <MC1984> the larger blocksize would decrease your efficiency for a while
2149 2013-05-29 23:18:25 <MC1984> i suppose
2150 2013-05-29 23:18:44 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, it's about how many locks are required
2151 2013-05-29 23:18:50 <phantomcircuit> which is not exactly easy to figure out
2152 2013-05-29 23:18:54 <phantomcircuit> bdb being more or less a blackbox
2153 2013-05-29 23:19:09 <phantomcircuit> (it is FOSS but it's uh.. not obvious how it works)
2154 2013-05-29 23:19:09 <MC1984> oh
2155 2013-05-29 23:19:22 <CodeShark> so let me get this right - to this date, since the march 11th incident, nobody has succeeded in reproducing the bug?
2156 2013-05-29 23:19:26 <MC1984> well, all you can do is mine the megabyte blocks until it happens
2157 2013-05-29 23:19:41 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, i believe that's accurate
2158 2013-05-29 23:20:03 <MC1984> my main reason as i said before is to get it over with, and stop it biting us in the ass at an indeterminate point in the future
2159 2013-05-29 23:20:11 <MC1984> if there is mor the the bug than thought
2160 2013-05-29 23:20:36 <phantomcircuit> well
2161 2013-05-29 23:20:41 <phantomcircuit> as long as it isn't triggered
2162 2013-05-29 23:20:46 <phantomcircuit> it's better
2163 2013-05-29 23:20:57 <phantomcircuit> since it's more likely people with old installs will upgrade
2164 2013-05-29 23:21:20 <MC1984> hundreds of people still running .3 arnt going to upgrade now
2165 2013-05-29 23:21:56 <phantomcircuit> no but people on 0.7.x might
2166 2013-05-29 23:21:58 <Subo1978> is there a list of clients per version?
2167 2013-05-29 23:22:13 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, has such a list i believe
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2169 2013-05-29 23:22:21 <MC1984> people on .7 will upgrade when it stops working, if ever
2170 2013-05-29 23:22:50 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: not enough transactions to get 1MB blocks yet
2171 2013-05-29 23:23:16 <Luke-Jr> despite all the FUD about increasing the block size, there's not enough transactions to get there
2172 2013-05-29 23:23:24 <MC1984> the first time it happened with like 450kb block right
2173 2013-05-29 23:23:35 <Luke-Jr> yes, but size doesn't really matter either
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2175 2013-05-29 23:23:45 <MC1984> that managed to trigger the locks bug when 800kb blocks havent
2176 2013-05-29 23:23:52 <kinlo> are there any changes between 0.8.2rc3 and 0.8.2?
2177 2013-05-29 23:23:58 <kinlo> do I need to put in new sigs??
2178 2013-05-29 23:24:00 <MC1984> so in a way it was lucky it happened when it did
2179 2013-05-29 23:24:16 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: I believe so. but we do have 4 already
2180 2013-05-29 23:24:32 execut3 has joined
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2182 2013-05-29 23:25:22 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: well, if gavin thinks I can contribute, I'm happy to do it
2183 2013-05-29 23:25:32 <kinlo> in fact, my ubuntu is already crunching :)
2184 2013-05-29 23:25:35 <Luke-Jr> ☺
2185 2013-05-29 23:28:07 <kinlo> I haven't been following the channel, I was online at the time gavin was here, just not following the channel
2186 2013-05-29 23:28:07 saracen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2187 2013-05-29 23:28:15 <kinlo> I could have build them sooner
2188 2013-05-29 23:28:17 saracen has joined
2189 2013-05-29 23:28:23 <kinlo> just read the mail
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2195 2013-05-29 23:43:53 <nsh> hmm
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