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  11 2013-06-01 00:30:51 <Luke-Jr> berndj: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/earlyshare2.json
  12 2013-06-01 00:31:17 <Luke-Jr> berndj: but cpu-miner has been superceded by BFGMiner
  13 2013-06-01 00:31:53 <berndj> i can't keep up with all the supercedings :-/ just using it as a sort of reference miner
  14 2013-06-01 00:32:54 <Luke-Jr> keep up with it? it's like once a year at most!
  15 2013-06-01 00:33:22 <Luke-Jr> (and hopefully BFGMiner lives long, as I don't intend to stop maintaining it anytime soon)
  16 2013-06-01 00:34:01 <berndj> Luke-Jr: is that earlyshare2.json meant to be a convenient getwork url?
  17 2013-06-01 00:34:10 <Luke-Jr> berndj: yes
  18 2013-06-01 00:34:18 <Luke-Jr> berndj: it has a share pretty fast even with CPU mining
  19 2013-06-01 00:34:27 <berndj> cool, just what i need then
  20 2013-06-01 00:34:32 <Luke-Jr> (it's not a proper JSON-RPC server though, so it will always be "rejected")
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  27 2013-06-01 00:36:11 <Aurigae> luke, ever thought to prevent execution of bfgminer without uac on windows systems, could give botminers a hard time :P
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  47 2013-06-01 00:43:09 <Luke-Jr> Aurigae: whatever UAC is
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  57 2013-06-01 00:58:38 <berndj> Luke-Jr, apparently earlyshare2.json is missing a "midstate" key, so cpu-miner barfs. thanks for the effort though
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  66 2013-06-01 01:06:10 * porquilho REVOLUTION IN TURKEY
  67 2013-06-01 01:06:15 * porquilho 1ST ISTAMBUL
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  80 2013-06-01 01:14:10 <Luke-Jr> berndj: "midstate" has been deprecated/removed for a long time now
  81 2013-06-01 01:14:40 <berndj> lol, the perils of playing with superceded software
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  86 2013-06-01 01:16:19 <Sealy> anybody know how to implement callbacks when bitcoin is sent to a certain address?
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  95 2013-06-01 01:20:16 <nsh> Sealy, in what?
  96 2013-06-01 01:20:26 <nsh> there's https://coinbase.com/docs/merchant_tools/callbacks
  97 2013-06-01 01:20:31 <nsh> or -walletnotify for bitcoind
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 102 2013-06-01 01:21:49 <Sealy> nsh i have btcoind running on a server and want to implement it on my server
 103 2013-06-01 01:22:00 seeingidog__ has joined
 104 2013-06-01 01:22:00 <Sealy> i assumed it would just involve installing the json rpc
 105 2013-06-01 01:22:12 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 106 2013-06-01 01:22:17 <Sealy> what coinbase has is exactly what i want to do on my private server
 107 2013-06-01 01:23:21 <Sealy> i'm currently using blockchain.info's one but its very unreliable
 108 2013-06-01 01:25:23 <nsh> see: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7942/what-is-the-best-way-to-get-notified-of-new-payments-received
 109 2013-06-01 01:26:04 <nsh> (if you want to roll your own, i would *guess* that the simplest way is to use -walletnotify=/some/script and do magic stuff there)
 110 2013-06-01 01:26:50 <Sealy> because i've seen it in a few sites I assumed there was some off the shelf code to do it?
 111 2013-06-01 01:26:56 <Sealy> like a pre written set of classes
 112 2013-06-01 01:27:14 <Sealy> hmm i'm just doing more digging, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20
 113 2013-06-01 01:27:19 <Sealy> gavin talks about it in there
 114 2013-06-01 01:28:31 <nsh> good luck. i know nothing so somebody else may still chip in with better advice
 115 2013-06-01 01:29:24 <Sealy> maybe i'll post a bounty on my bitcointalk post for it
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 126 2013-06-01 01:41:01 <nsh> <boonies4u> anyone else getting -000 stuck on the end of their transaction id's in 0.8.2?
 127 2013-06-01 01:41:08 <nsh> didn't someone raise this the other day?
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 131 2013-06-01 01:42:58 <Sealy> boonies4u: you have debts to pay off at btcjam
 132 2013-06-01 01:43:34 jaequery has joined
 133 2013-06-01 01:43:36 <boonies4u> Sealy: Yes, i do.
 134 2013-06-01 01:44:05 <Sealy> aah as long as its not forgotten
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 136 2013-06-01 01:44:29 <boonies4u> Sealy: I shorted bitcoin when I shouldn't have
 137 2013-06-01 01:44:36 <Sealy> ouch
 138 2013-06-01 01:44:40 <boonies4u> and it hurt everyone involved
 139 2013-06-01 01:44:52 <boonies4u> USD pegged loans weren't available at the time
 140 2013-06-01 01:45:00 <Sealy> btc.sx if you want to short
 141 2013-06-01 01:45:12 <Sealy> without usd
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 143 2013-06-01 01:45:20 <boonies4u> I wasn't intending to short, I just didn't appreciate the volatility
 144 2013-06-01 01:45:34 * nsh nods
 145 2013-06-01 01:45:47 <nsh> you need a pretty efficient set of markets for shorting to be safe
 146 2013-06-01 01:46:10 <boonies4u> as I said, I wasn't intending to
 147 2013-06-01 01:46:16 <boonies4u> that's just how it turned out
 148 2013-06-01 01:46:21 <nsh> right, wasn't censure sorry
 149 2013-06-01 01:46:30 <nsh> i hope you're not too much out
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 152 2013-06-01 01:46:48 <boonies4u> Sealy: are you one of my lenders? if so, you can contact me on the forums and/or through comments on BTCjam
 153 2013-06-01 01:47:04 <Sealy> yes i lent quite a lot in the early days of btcjam
 154 2013-06-01 01:47:21 <Sealy> ok
 155 2013-06-01 01:47:21 root2 has joined
 156 2013-06-01 01:47:26 <boonies4u> Aye, even Tulkas lent me coins
 157 2013-06-01 01:47:40 <boonies4u> since I was one of the first borrowers
 158 2013-06-01 01:47:49 <boonies4u> (i assume)
 159 2013-06-01 01:47:49 <Sealy> yeah
 160 2013-06-01 01:47:53 <Sealy> https://btcjam.com/listings/38
 161 2013-06-01 01:47:56 <Sealy> im Seal
 162 2013-06-01 01:47:58 <Sealy> on there
 163 2013-06-01 01:48:48 <Sealy> i've held off leaving negative feedback as i wouldn't want to put you off paying me back
 164 2013-06-01 01:48:58 <Sealy> i'm not quite sure how the payback side works
 165 2013-06-01 01:49:49 <boonies4u> sorry, what do you mean?
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 169 2013-06-01 01:50:29 <Sealy> reputation points on btcjam
 170 2013-06-01 01:50:40 <Sealy> lenders and borrowers can leave each other feedback
 171 2013-06-01 01:51:14 <boonies4u> Yes, it is all very complicated
 172 2013-06-01 01:51:23 <boonies4u> you should speak to Tulkas regarding that
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 174 2013-06-01 01:52:11 <Sealy> ok
 175 2013-06-01 01:52:16 <Sealy> his site seems to be doing well
 176 2013-06-01 01:52:21 <boonies4u> also, be aware that you can sell notes
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 178 2013-06-01 01:53:56 <Sealy> thats complex
 179 2013-06-01 01:54:41 <boonies4u> Just want you to be aware
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 184 2013-06-01 01:59:53 <TheLordOfTime> anyone know why bitcoin-qt seizes up after i do an importprivkey ?
 185 2013-06-01 01:59:57 <TheLordOfTime> it just freezes and hangs...
 186 2013-06-01 02:00:39 <nsh> version?
 187 2013-06-01 02:00:45 <TheLordOfTime> latest
 188 2013-06-01 02:00:47 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: it's scanning the blockchain
 189 2013-06-01 02:00:52 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr:  that's what i assume
 190 2013-06-01 02:00:53 <TheLordOfTime> d
 191 2013-06-01 02:00:54 <Luke-Jr> takes a while
 192 2013-06-01 02:01:05 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr:  as long as it did to download/verify the blockchain did?
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 194 2013-06-01 02:02:49 <Luke-Jr> no
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 202 2013-06-01 02:06:43 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr:  got an approximate guess?
 203 2013-06-01 02:06:47 <TheLordOfTime> like, 20 minutes?
 204 2013-06-01 02:06:49 <TheLordOfTime> 10?
 205 2013-06-01 02:06:52 <TheLordOfTime> 15?
 206 2013-06-01 02:06:57 <TheLordOfTime> or is there no way to guess
 207 2013-06-01 02:07:13 <dugo> importprivkey just takes time
 208 2013-06-01 02:07:54 <boonies4u> everything takes time
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 210 2013-06-01 02:11:54 <dugo> by default it does a rescan .. you should be able to turn it off
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 212 2013-06-01 02:13:02 <TheLordOfTime> probably if i appended a label and rescan=false or something
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 214 2013-06-01 02:13:57 <TheLordOfTime> but  it worked so... :P
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 335 2013-06-01 04:26:56 <owowodopolous> what would I use to set my dust variable in bitcoin.conf isdust=x
 336 2013-06-01 04:26:58 <owowodopolous> P
 337 2013-06-01 04:27:00 <owowodopolous> ?
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 343 2013-06-01 04:28:29 <owowodopolous> it's not in the wiki...
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 349 2013-06-01 04:29:25 <Luke-Jr> hmm
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 354 2013-06-01 04:29:45 <owowodopolous> and what is the default dust?
 355 2013-06-01 04:29:47 <Luke-Jr> can anyone who got Kaspersky's contact info ask him if there's anything I can do to make my software resistant to being embedded in malware/botnets?
 356 2013-06-01 04:30:00 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ^
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 361 2013-06-01 04:30:58 <sethotterstad> have you guys seen this eMula alt-coin?  The dev is arguing in the thread that calculating merkel-roots is superior to SHA256 for proof-of-work.
 362 2013-06-01 04:31:11 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 363 2013-06-01 04:31:21 <Luke-Jr> sethotterstad: link?
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 367 2013-06-01 04:31:49 <sethotterstad> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.280
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 443 2013-06-01 04:56:41 <TradeFortress> I'd like to call listtransactions without specifying an account, but also make use of count and from. How do I do that with php jsonrpcclient?
 444 2013-06-01 04:56:57 <TradeFortress> $rpc->listtransactions(30, $from) gives me an error.
 445 2013-06-01 04:57:11 <TradeFortress> $rpc->listransactions("", 30, $from) fetches from the account ""
 446 2013-06-01 04:58:01 <Luke-Jr> null?
 447 2013-06-01 04:58:08 <Luke-Jr> surely PHP has some null type..
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 449 2013-06-01 04:59:19 <TradeFortress> NULL gives me an error.
 450 2013-06-01 04:59:26 BCB is now known as `BCB
 451 2013-06-01 05:00:24 `BCB is now known as ```BCB
 452 2013-06-01 05:00:55 ```BCB is now known as BCB
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 455 2013-06-01 05:03:50 <TradeFortress> "*" works
 456 2013-06-01 05:04:24 <TradeFortress> Regarding -blocknotify: If it's downloading the blockchain, could it overload my PHP script that checks incoming transactions?
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 488 2013-06-01 05:48:25 <ryan-c> TradeFortress: yes
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 515 2013-06-01 06:47:42 <TradeFortress> Help: I can't connect via jsonrpc after upgrading to v0.8.2. curl works.
 516 2013-06-01 06:47:59 <TradeFortress> Has there being any changes since v0.7.x?
 517 2013-06-01 06:49:16 <Luke-Jr> probably
 518 2013-06-01 06:49:26 <Luke-Jr> if curl works, your code is probably buggy
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 520 2013-06-01 06:52:02 <TradeFortress> I'm just calling getinfo. Do you know any rpc changes?
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 581 2013-06-01 08:51:48 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: ping
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 617 2013-06-01 09:55:04 <jouke> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZp7UGgBR0I&hd=1
 618 2013-06-01 09:55:05 <jouke> srsly
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 690 2013-06-01 12:14:43 <bitanarchy> How can I see my peers in bitcoin-qt?
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 693 2013-06-01 12:19:09 <Goonie_> bitanarchy: there is a command in the console
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 707 2013-06-01 12:46:55 <setkeh> Hey guys How does one use jsonrpc in python to call bitcoind rpc i have tried https://gist.github.com/setkeh/5690203 but it throws a traceback i dont quite understand (im new to python :D) the taceback is included in that gist
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 710 2013-06-01 12:51:11 <lianj> setkeh: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)#Python
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 712 2013-06-01 12:53:08 <setkeh> lianj: yes thats how i got that far though that just outputs the JSON so i canged it according to the jsonrpc docs
 713 2013-06-01 12:53:29 <setkeh> that is sipposed to output the value not the JSON
 714 2013-06-01 12:53:35 <setkeh> Supposed*
 715 2013-06-01 12:54:46 <shesek> How are public keys validated?
 716 2013-06-01 12:56:03 <shesek> I would like to create a dummy public key, based on some data, to be used in a multisig transaction, but bitcoind rejects it as invalid
 717 2013-06-01 12:56:21 <shesek> I thought padding it to 65 bytes should work, but it seems like it doesn't
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 721 2013-06-01 13:01:48 <sipa> shesek: there are only around 2^256 valid private keys, so just as much public keys
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 723 2013-06-01 13:02:22 <sipa> and how they are validated... there's no way better wqy create a random public key than creating a real one from a secret key
 724 2013-06-01 13:04:22 <shesek> yeah, I could do that, but I don't actually want the pubkey to work
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 726 2013-06-01 13:05:07 <sipa> why not?
 727 2013-06-01 13:05:14 <shesek> I'm creating a 2-of-4 multisig for escrow. 3 of the keys are the buyer/seller/escrow public key, and the forth one is the buyer-seller terms
 728 2013-06-01 13:05:16 <sipa> and what do you mean by work?
 729 2013-06-01 13:05:34 <shesek> the hash of the buyer-seller terms, that is
 730 2013-06-01 13:05:43 <sipa> so you're just using it to attach data to the transactions?
 731 2013-06-01 13:05:50 <sipa> please don't do that
 732 2013-06-01 13:05:53 <shesek> pretty much, yes
 733 2013-06-01 13:06:13 <shesek> why not?
 734 2013-06-01 13:06:27 <shesek> its a p2sh address anyway
 735 2013-06-01 13:06:41 <shesek> its only an extra few bytes in the spending transaction
 736 2013-06-01 13:06:54 <sipa> yeah, it's better than adding an extra output for it
 737 2013-06-01 13:07:00 <sipa> as this doesn't impact the utxo set
 738 2013-06-01 13:07:09 <sipa> but it's not necessary still
 739 2013-06-01 13:07:31 <sipa> you can probably do something like derive one of pubkey from the hash multiplied by a know pubkey
 740 2013-06-01 13:07:33 <shesek> Its a way to prove to the escrow the terms were agreed upon by both parties
 741 2013-06-01 13:07:35 <warren> sipa: back home?
 742 2013-06-01 13:07:45 <sipa> that also proves the commitment
 743 2013-06-01 13:08:10 <sipa> and if you really want to do what you're doing: use a compressed pubkey
 744 2013-06-01 13:08:22 <shesek> is attaching data like that considered a bad thing?
 745 2013-06-01 13:08:22 <sipa> 0x02 + 32 bytes
 746 2013-06-01 13:08:32 <sipa> imho it's abuse
 747 2013-06-01 13:08:54 <sipa> anything that isn't necessary for the world to validate your transactions doesn't belong in it
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 749 2013-06-01 13:08:58 <shesek> it doesn't effect the UTXO, and barely takes any storage in the blocks
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 751 2013-06-01 13:09:24 <sipa> it's 65 extra bytes in your case to the blockchain
 752 2013-06-01 13:09:41 <sipa> i don't care whether it's much or not, if it's possible with 0 as well
 753 2013-06-01 13:10:30 <safra> hi
 754 2013-06-01 13:10:36 <sipa> warren: yes
 755 2013-06-01 13:10:39 <sipa> almost
 756 2013-06-01 13:10:45 <safra> anyone know how to upgrate bitcoin-qt on ubunt 13.04?
 757 2013-06-01 13:10:52 <safra> ubuntu*
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 759 2013-06-01 13:11:01 <shesek> I guess I could have the buyer/seller sign the terms with the their pubkey and give it to each other
 760 2013-06-01 13:11:23 <shesek> instead of storing the hash as part of the p2sh
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 762 2013-06-01 13:12:23 <sipa> also, N-of-4 multisig is nonstandard (for now)
 763 2013-06-01 13:12:45 <shesek> yeah, I read something about it being limited to 3 pubkeys somewhere
 764 2013-06-01 13:12:48 <shesek> but I wasn't sure
 765 2013-06-01 13:12:49 <sipa> which can be changed easily, but right now, it would make your scheme hard in oractice
 766 2013-06-01 13:12:57 <shesek> so I guess its not really an option?
 767 2013-06-01 13:12:58 <sipa> practice
 768 2013-06-01 13:13:19 <sipa> well if you have a convincing use case to extend it to 4, it can easily be changed
 769 2013-06-01 13:13:37 <sipa> but storing extra data in the chain is imho more a reason not to allow it.
 770 2013-06-01 13:13:58 <TradeFortress> Hey guys, can someone with a miner point it at the testnet for a minute or so. I'd like to test something.
 771 2013-06-01 13:14:01 <TradeFortress> Thanks <3
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 773 2013-06-01 13:14:51 <shesek> I dunno. I think that things like that, or trusted timestamping, or colored coins, add a lot of value to Bitcoin
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 775 2013-06-01 13:15:41 <shesek> I don't like the general attitude against that stuff
 776 2013-06-01 13:17:03 <shesek> its easy to say to everyone "start your own blockchain", but its not that simple in reality. Bitcoin gives incentive for people to mine, that won't exists on a new blockchain
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 781 2013-06-01 13:20:10 <sipa> shesek: well, all depends on what we want bitcoin to be
 782 2013-06-01 13:21:29 <sipa> shesek: things that actually add value, and require some overhead may be acceptable (but timestamping can be done in max-constant-space per block like chronobit does, and colored coins afaik don't require extra data in transaction, just color-specific tracking in the client)
 783 2013-06-01 13:21:30 <shesek> yeah, I guess it is a matter of opinion. I think the trustless model created in Bitcoin should be used for other purposes
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 785 2013-06-01 13:22:10 <shesek> yeah, but the 0.8.2 dust handling makes it harder/more expensive to use colored coins
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 787 2013-06-01 13:22:29 <shesek> instead of representing "things" with a satoshi, which costs almost nothing
 788 2013-06-01 13:22:36 <sipa> it
 789 2013-06-01 13:22:38 <shesek> you'd have to use multiplies of the new limit
 790 2013-06-01 13:22:46 <sipa> it's not like you lose something by assigning meaning to a coin
 791 2013-06-01 13:24:33 <setkeh> Hey guys How does one use jsonrpc in python to call bitcoind rpc i have tried https://gist.github.com/setkeh/5690203 but it throws a traceback i dont quite understand (im new to python :D) the taceback is included in that gist
 792 2013-06-01 13:24:33 <sipa> sure, dust limiting means less potential total independent coins in circulation
 793 2013-06-01 13:24:36 <shesek> If I wanted to distribute 100,000 shares, it'll cost me 5.43 BTC (100,000*0.0000543)
 794 2013-06-01 13:24:53 <shesek> if I could use 1 satoshi for each share, it'll be 0.001 BTC
 795 2013-06-01 13:24:56 <sipa> but that's the same whether they have only bitcoin value or extra value
 796 2013-06-01 13:25:15 <sipa> it needs 5.43 BTC, but it's not like you lose them
 797 2013-06-01 13:25:29 <shesek> well, I assign them a different meaning
 798 2013-06-01 13:25:35 <sipa> well, no
 799 2013-06-01 13:25:38 <shesek> I can't longer use them as regular money
 800 2013-06-01 13:25:39 <TradeFortress> YES YES YES
 801 2013-06-01 13:25:44 <sipa> shesek: yes you can
 802 2013-06-01 13:25:47 <TradeFortress> Thank you to whoever mined the block on testnet! I love you
 803 2013-06-01 13:25:57 <nsh> TradeFortress, what you testing?
 804 2013-06-01 13:26:03 <TradeFortress> nsh, blocknotify
 805 2013-06-01 13:26:11 <shesek> well, I technically could, eventually, when I don't need them to be colored anymore
 806 2013-06-01 13:26:12 <nsh> right
 807 2013-06-01 13:26:32 <sipa> shesek: they are coins that are worth 54.3 uBTC + whatever you assign to it
 808 2013-06-01 13:26:57 <sipa> like buying a house to rent it our doesn't mean you can't sell the house anymore afterwards
 809 2013-06-01 13:27:16 * nsh wonders how far back in the buffer is required to read for this discussion to make sense
 810 2013-06-01 13:27:31 <shesek> if whatever you assign to them is worth more than 54.3 uBTC, there's no point in anyone ever using them as regular bitcoins
 811 2013-06-01 13:27:50 <sipa> they
 812 2013-06-01 13:27:55 <sipa> they're still both
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 815 2013-06-01 13:28:00 <shesek> and even if so, its still more costly to create the shares
 816 2013-06-01 13:28:22 <Tykling> can someone think of a better rpc call to use here, the goal is to get the number of confirmations for a given bitcoind account: https://ezcrypt.it/dx6n#s7XAaJEDCHROL52DBrvQUa9M - looping through them all is terribly ineffective
 817 2013-06-01 13:28:36 <Tykling> this is with bitcoinrpc for python
 818 2013-06-01 13:28:48 <sipa> accounts don't have confirmations
 819 2013-06-01 13:28:48 <warren> "Only alerts that are signed by a specific ECDSA public key are considered valid. A copy of the private key is held by at least Satoshi, Gavin, and theymos."  First sentence should probably s/public// ?
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 821 2013-06-01 13:29:52 <Tykling> sipa: no I know but they have addresses which have transactions which have confirmations, it is summarized nicely when calling listreceivedbyaccount, I'd like to get the same info without returning all accounts
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 842 2013-06-01 13:52:07 <shesek> I'm trying to derive keys from a master public/private key and some hash
 843 2013-06-01 13:52:25 <shesek> can someone validate I did it correctly? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ca039247a17228ed67b6
 844 2013-06-01 13:53:29 <shesek> (its with the bitcoinjs library)
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 852 2013-06-01 14:05:33 <nsh> ;;google browser crypto doubleplusgood
 853 2013-06-01 14:05:35 <gribble> Mozilla Adds H.264 Support To Android Firefox - Slashdot: <http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/08/15/1537237/mozilla-adds-h264-support-to-android-firefox>; IBM Seeks Patent On Digital Witch Hunts - Slashdot: <http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/07/24/2243209/ibm-seeks-patent-on-digital-witch-hunts>; Financial Cryptography: Meta-FC Archives: (1 more message)
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 905 2013-06-01 15:32:58 <shesek> lets say I want to split my private key in N pieces and distribute it to different parties. is there a way those parties could verify their pieces produce a private key that corresponds to a specific public key, without revealing the private key to each other?
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 913 2013-06-01 15:46:31 <boonies4u> Which block will contain the final coinbase transaction?
 914 2013-06-01 15:46:35 <iddo> shesek: you could use ZK proof for that, not sure if there's something less generic for this particular case
 915 2013-06-01 15:46:54 <Luke-Jr> boonies4u: there is always a coinbase transaction
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 918 2013-06-01 15:48:11 <boonies4u> Luke-Jr: At what blockheight will coinbase transctions be entirely made up from transaction fees?
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 920 2013-06-01 15:49:35 <iddo> shesek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRcPReUpkcU
 921 2013-06-01 15:49:55 <boonies4u> Luke-Jr: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f7e8l/at_this_rate_the_last_new_btc_will_be_issued_15/ca9j9ee
 922 2013-06-01 15:51:55 <shesek> iddo, thanks, I'll watch it
 923 2013-06-01 15:52:45 <boonies4u> thanks luke
 924 2013-06-01 15:52:46 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: pong
 925 2013-06-01 15:52:59 <Goonie_> hi matt
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 927 2013-06-01 15:53:01 <boonies4u> there can be only one oonie
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 930 2013-06-01 15:53:55 <BlueMatt> whats up?
 931 2013-06-01 15:54:02 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: did you get my mail about sensible defaults for fee config?
 932 2013-06-01 15:54:41 <Goonie_> Luke-Jr: I wonder if you could add sub-versions to your graph. So we can see the relation of 0.8.1 vs. 0.8.2
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 934 2013-06-01 15:55:19 <Vinnie_win> sup fools
 935 2013-06-01 15:55:47 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: yea, sorry havent had a chance to respond
 936 2013-06-01 15:55:52 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: also, Im not sure how to respond...
 937 2013-06-01 15:56:29 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: even the reference client does a bad job with fees
 938 2013-06-01 15:56:31 <shesek> iddo, I'm thinking of a case where a service provider would surrender his private to multiple parties in case he can't continue to provide services. for example, an escrow service could provide a guarantee that someone else could release the money if they disappear
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 940 2013-06-01 15:57:21 <Goonie_> hmmm
 941 2013-06-01 15:57:35 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: I think sane default is: if it has a <0.01 output, min_fee, if it has a lot of ouputs min_fee, otherwise, let it be 0 and let the competeTx add if neccessary
 942 2013-06-01 15:57:50 <iddo> shesek: couldn't you just transfer the coins to a new multisig address?
 943 2013-06-01 15:58:03 <BlueMatt> min_fee being feePerKb = fee = Transaction.REFERENCE_MIN_TX_FEE or whatever I called it
 944 2013-06-01 15:58:32 <shesek> iddo, only if both parties of the dispute wish to resolve it
 945 2013-06-01 15:58:52 <BlueMatt> though, really, because the min_fee is 0.0001 BTC, you can probably add that to all transactions without anyone caring...
 946 2013-06-01 15:59:14 <shesek> both of them would have to agree to send it to a new address
 947 2013-06-01 15:59:21 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: I hoped that the gritty details are encapsulated into bitcoinj now.
 948 2013-06-01 15:59:59 <BlueMatt> well maybe sane defaults are just min_fee on everything
 949 2013-06-01 16:00:09 <iddo> shesek: why not agree from the beginning to send the multisig addr that lets either the escrow or some backup parties release the coins?
 950 2013-06-01 16:00:15 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: Ok, so I set fee to 0.0001, do not touch feePerKb and pass true to the boolean ?
 951 2013-06-01 16:00:26 <iddo> s/the multisig/to multisig
 952 2013-06-01 16:00:42 <BlueMatt> no, set both fee and feePerKb to Transaction.Whatever (0.0001) and pass true to the boolean
 953 2013-06-01 16:00:59 <Goonie_> ok
 954 2013-06-01 16:01:48 <shesek> iddo, how would that work with m-of-n transactions?
 955 2013-06-01 16:02:28 <shesek> you can't do a 2-of-4 (buyer, seller, escrow, backup escrow) because than the two escrows together could control the money
 956 2013-06-01 16:02:42 <shesek> or you're thinking of some more complicated script that allows it?
 957 2013-06-01 16:03:16 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: Done. I think I'll roll a preview today.
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 960 2013-06-01 16:04:10 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: ok, thanks (and I think let users specify down to 0 for fee = feePerKb and then let the checkbox in the options set the boolean to false if users are really crazy)
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 962 2013-06-01 16:05:02 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: for now, I remove fee control by the user completely
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 964 2013-06-01 16:05:12 <iddo> yes i was thinking about a script that says that either the escrow can release the coins, and e.g. 2-of-3 for backup, so (A or (2 of B,C,D))
 965 2013-06-01 16:05:12 <BlueMatt> ok
 966 2013-06-01 16:05:30 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: though somehow I like the option to specify 0 fee as long as it fits with the min-relay-fee-rules
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 972 2013-06-01 16:06:28 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: I'm open to adding something like that again, but maybe its reallly more like a slider or sth like that.
 973 2013-06-01 16:06:48 <BlueMatt> or even a "please confirm now"/"I can wait a day" checkbox
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 976 2013-06-01 16:07:03 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: yeah
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 979 2013-06-01 16:08:07 <shesek> iddo, is it possible to do something like (2 of (buyer, seller, (A or (2 of B,C,D))))?
 980 2013-06-01 16:08:21 <BlueMatt> shesek: yes
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 982 2013-06-01 16:08:56 <BlueMatt> well, it may get complicated, but it should be possible
 983 2013-06-01 16:09:22 <shesek> oh, cool. I didn't know the scripting system can handle such complicated cases
 984 2013-06-01 16:09:25 <Goonie_> does anyone have a guess on how many miners have adopted 0.8.2 already?
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 986 2013-06-01 16:09:44 <BlueMatt> the scripting system can handle all kinds of crazy shit
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 989 2013-06-01 16:10:02 <BlueMatt> you could do multisig without even using OP_CHECKMULTISIG
 990 2013-06-01 16:10:17 <shesek> wouldn't it be better tho to handle it with regular cryptography if possible?
 991 2013-06-01 16:10:31 <BlueMatt> no, using a ton of IFs and OP_CHECKSIGs
 992 2013-06-01 16:10:56 <shesek> I was talking in the more general sense
 993 2013-06-01 16:11:23 <shesek> if something like (2 of (buyer, seller, (A or (2 of B,C,D)))) can be done with off-the-blockchain cryptography, wouldn't it be better to handle it like that?
 994 2013-06-01 16:11:48 <iddo> shesek: why would it be better?
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 996 2013-06-01 16:14:21 <shesek> well, to simplify things, which can make verifying transactions more efficient
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 999 2013-06-01 16:16:40 <shesek> and because you can use regular cryptography for some things that might be less trivial to implement using bitcoin scripting, if at all possible
1000 2013-06-01 16:17:12 <iddo> shesek: it's a tradeoff, less work to verify by the bitcoin nodes, but the ZK-CIP compiler will produce a much longer proof, but not sure why you need it, if you trust the escrow then you can also trust that the escrow delegated his power to backup parties
1001 2013-06-01 16:17:13 <shesek> I mean... why take something that already exists on works well, and re-implement it with a limited scripting language?
1002 2013-06-01 16:18:14 <iddo> s/power/privkey
1003 2013-06-01 16:18:37 <shesek> right. but I'm thinking of a case where the escrow himself wants to do an "m-of-n power delegation", where no single party can take over his private key
1004 2013-06-01 16:19:07 <iddo> shesek: yes you can use Shamir's secret sharing etc.
1005 2013-06-01 16:19:48 MaxValor is now known as AFK!~maxvalor@adsl-74-240-126-97.bhm.bellsouth.net|MaxValor
1006 2013-06-01 16:20:13 <iddo> shesek: tht would be quite efficient, the inefficient part is if you want the ZK proof that the escrow delegated his privkey to the backup parties
1007 2013-06-01 16:22:23 <shesek> does it really require a zero proof knowledge? I know its possible to split a private key to N piece with "regular" cryptography. couldn't there be a simpler way for them to verify it?
1008 2013-06-01 16:22:57 <shesek> and that SCIP talks looks really interesting
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1010 2013-06-01 16:24:12 <shesek> its amazing what you can do with ZK proofs
1011 2013-06-01 16:24:49 denom has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1012 2013-06-01 16:25:01 <iddo> shesek: not sure, the feature of secret sharing is that if a group of parties that shouldn't be allowed to re-create the secret colludes, then they cannot deduce anything about the secret from their data
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1016 2013-06-01 16:29:58 <shesek> I should've Googled some more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verifiable_secret_sharing
1017 2013-06-01 16:30:06 <shesek> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicly_Verifiable_Secret_Sharing
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1023 2013-06-01 16:32:17 <iddo> interesting
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1028 2013-06-01 16:36:23 <dansmith_btc> Hello, does createrawtransaction's vout has to be owned by me in order for signrawtransaction to suceed?
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1039 2013-06-01 16:48:09 <hpprinter100> Hi my friends web hosting now accepts bitcoins, Please can someone with a wiki account at it to the Trade page?
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1043 2013-06-01 16:53:54 <The_Fly> this SCIP talk is good.
1044 2013-06-01 16:56:57 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1045 2013-06-01 16:58:09 <iddo> The_Fly: if you can think of interesting use cases then please let me know and i'll forward it to the CIP people
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1047 2013-06-01 16:59:06 Subo1978_ is now known as subo1978
1048 2013-06-01 17:00:31 <iddo> one idea mentioned there is that instead of downloading and verifying the chain from the genesis block, the node could verify instead a (non-ZK) CI proof that another node already did this computation, but the output of the computation wouldn't be boolean, probably the output should be the entire UTXO set
1049 2013-06-01 17:02:18 <iddo> this might be much more useful if the PoW hash was scrypt with intensive params (which would takes e.g. months to verify)
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1052 2013-06-01 17:03:21 <kuzetsa> iddo: "CI proof" <-- computationally intensive? or did I guess wrong on the shorthand acronym
1053 2013-06-01 17:04:16 <iddo> kuzetsa: CI = computation integrity, i.e. proof that you ran some computation
1054 2013-06-01 17:04:17 <kuzetsa> and yeah, I really like that
1055 2013-06-01 17:05:12 <iddo> kuzetsa: sorry about the weird acronym, it's in the title of the slides of that talk etc.
1056 2013-06-01 17:05:14 <kuzetsa> proof that UTXO state is consistent would be a likely canidate. just seems to makes sense
1057 2013-06-01 17:05:23 <kuzetsa> slides?
1058 2013-06-01 17:05:38 <kuzetsa> like film slides / projector =o.O=
1059 2013-06-01 17:05:57 <iddo> hmm should i say presentation
1060 2013-06-01 17:05:58 <kuzetsa> or digital version of the same? (libre/open office impress or powerpoint)
1061 2013-06-01 17:06:19 <iddo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRcPReUpkcU
1062 2013-06-01 17:06:35 <kuzetsa> I can't youtube right now
1063 2013-06-01 17:06:52 <iddo> i can send the slides file, it's powerpoint
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1065 2013-06-01 17:07:07 <kuzetsa> CPU / GPU are completely lagging me out while I do some non-bitcoin GPGPU processing for something vague
1066 2013-06-01 17:07:22 <kuzetsa> huh
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1068 2013-06-01 17:08:08 <kuzetsa> "sorry about the weird acronym" <-- so the slide doesn't say what "CI proof" even is?
1069 2013-06-01 17:08:29 <kuzetsa> based on the context, is it possible that they meant computationally intensive? that would seem plausible
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1071 2013-06-01 17:08:41 <iddo> it does, CIP = computation integrity and privacy
1072 2013-06-01 17:08:49 <kuzetsa> ah
1073 2013-06-01 17:09:14 <kuzetsa> CI + P is a different "I" and a different conjugation of computation(ally)
1074 2013-06-01 17:09:14 <iddo> you want the slides?
1075 2013-06-01 17:09:20 <kuzetsa> no, not really
1076 2013-06-01 17:09:30 <kuzetsa> I prefer whitepapers to infographics and videos
1077 2013-06-01 17:11:22 <kuzetsa> hell, even a forum or blog post would be acceptable. "formal whitepaper" is not required. I just have some disabilities which make visually presented information difficult for my brain to deal with :(
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1079 2013-06-01 17:11:45 <kuzetsa> like non-text I meant (I can read just fine... agnosia is funny like that)
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1081 2013-06-01 17:14:28 <iddo> kuzetsa: it's a series of theory papers like http://eccc.hpi-web.de/report/2012/045/
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1105 2013-06-01 17:36:38 <moarrr> ok this is beyond a joke
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1107 2013-06-01 17:36:43 <moarrr> bitcoin needs to startup much quicker
1108 2013-06-01 17:36:47 <moarrr> or have a status bar or something
1109 2013-06-01 17:38:14 <moarrr> oi anyone active?
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1114 2013-06-01 17:47:35 <MC1984_> loww attention span m8?
1115 2013-06-01 17:48:24 <moarrr> urgh
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1126 2013-06-01 18:00:30 <Goonie_> BlueMatt: uploaded preview to http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/downloads/list
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1129 2013-06-01 18:02:54 <BlueMatt> Goonie_: nice, installing...
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1206 2013-06-01 19:40:36 <wallet43> this is gun: https://github.com/search?p=3&q=extension%3Aphp+mysql_query+%24_GET&ref=searchresults&type=Code
1207 2013-06-01 19:40:43 <wallet43> s/gun/fun/
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1211 2013-06-01 19:47:53 <rumpler> wallet43: All the unsanitized queries that people are using?
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1242 2013-06-01 20:25:58 <Natanael_L> Where's the Armory IRC channel?
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1249 2013-06-01 20:39:29 <chsados> Hey, would anyone mind lending me probably a mere 10 minutes of your time adding a few lines to a linux build script (ubuntu privacy remix) to include installation of the Armory client?  http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1fh6di/need_help_adding_armory_install_to_a_linux_build/
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1265 2013-06-01 20:59:11 <ptote> the first person to send 0.03906 BTC to 1PB2M6UaimqaacrcyN9h81yWXKUrhPRbWw shall get a year of Password Totes top tier account, the rest would apparently just lose out on their BTC :P
1266 2013-06-01 20:59:41 <ptote> but really, does anyone wanna help me out and kick that BTC over for a year of password management at a severely reduced price?
1267 2013-06-01 21:00:21 ThomasV has joined
1268 2013-06-01 21:00:31 <ptote> i want to both a) get some btc in my wallet, im new and b) help a brother out
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1270 2013-06-01 21:07:27 <ptote> azizLIGHTS: I like your name
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1276 2013-06-01 21:12:53 <Luke-Jr> ptote: off-topic here, try #bitcoin-otc
1277 2013-06-01 21:13:29 hsmiths has joined
1278 2013-06-01 21:13:33 <Luke-Jr> Natanael_L: I don't think Armory has a user channel
1279 2013-06-01 21:13:46 <Luke-Jr> Natanael_L: #Bitcoin might make sense for user questions
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1297 2013-06-01 21:29:32 <shesek> didn't blockchain.info's api used to allow cross domain requests?
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1308 2013-06-01 21:38:24 <ptote> Luke-Jr: but this is for dev purposes because i am trying to make RPC calls to my bitcoind instance and see some transactions and more :)
1309 2013-06-01 21:38:36 <ptote> i've got no BTC
1310 2013-06-01 21:38:45 <Luke-Jr> ptote: try testnet
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1312 2013-06-01 21:39:01 <ptote> ugh, probably should, was sorta trying to avoid it
1313 2013-06-01 21:39:13 <ptote> does it mean i have to DL a whole different block chain to utilize it?
1314 2013-06-01 21:39:19 <ptote> i want to code today, not tomorrow
1315 2013-06-01 21:39:38 <ptote> actually, would btc you sent me even reach me today?
1316 2013-06-01 21:39:44 <ptote> whats the delay in these trans?
1317 2013-06-01 21:39:52 <Luke-Jr> blockchain download is quick in 0.8
1318 2013-06-01 21:39:59 <ptote> ty
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1320 2013-06-01 21:40:56 <shesek> the testnet chain is much smaller, too
1321 2013-06-01 21:41:04 <ptote> really?
1322 2013-06-01 21:41:12 <ptote> thats almost odd at first
1323 2013-06-01 21:41:20 <ptote> but i guess it could be and says good things about BTC
1324 2013-06-01 21:41:21 <shesek> why? it has much less activity
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1327 2013-06-01 21:42:12 <ptote> yeah, i hear ya, im so new to BTC in general
1328 2013-06-01 21:42:20 <ptote> but makes sense, even given the architecture
1329 2013-06-01 21:42:31 <ptote> i would assume you have to treat the testnet the same as production as well
1330 2013-06-01 21:42:41 <ptote> and no one would really be blasting production
1331 2013-06-01 21:42:56 <ptote> ive seen some test environments get large under vigorous testing
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1333 2013-06-01 21:43:29 <ptote> especially where bulk import features are available :P
1334 2013-06-01 21:43:58 <ptote> thanks for the info guys
1335 2013-06-01 21:44:21 Skav has joined
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1337 2013-06-01 21:45:05 <Luke-Jr> ptote: testnet gets reset occasionally
1338 2013-06-01 21:45:36 DaQatz has joined
1339 2013-06-01 21:45:37 <Luke-Jr> and someone testing with a lot of data would be encouraged to run a testnet fork and not the public instance
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1347 2013-06-01 21:53:11 <ptote> the burdens of software development
1348 2013-06-01 21:53:14 <ptote> gotta love em
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1351 2013-06-01 21:56:17 <ptote> wow, upon further reading, it appears that i may need to beg for testnet btc too?
1352 2013-06-01 21:56:20 <ptote> heh
1353 2013-06-01 21:56:40 <ptote> did anyone even go check out password tote, its the stuff
1354 2013-06-01 21:57:41 <Luke-Jr> ptote: people will gladly gift you tnbtc
1355 2013-06-01 21:59:01 Liquid_ has joined
1356 2013-06-01 21:59:03 <berndj> eh? how can i make blockchain download "quick"? i'm only at block 130k or so
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1358 2013-06-01 22:02:03 <ptote> does anyone know if an account is based of a hardware ID of the machine the wallet was installed on? or if accounts are newed up on each installation of the wallet?
1359 2013-06-01 22:02:28 DaQatz has joined
1360 2013-06-01 22:02:35 <ptote> ... based off...
1361 2013-06-01 22:03:38 Liquid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1363 2013-06-01 22:06:21 <gonffen> ptote: addresses are randomly generated and there are a few testnet faucets
1364 2013-06-01 22:06:26 <aXs___> ptote: there is not such thing as "account" .. your wallet is a collection of public/private keys... it's not related to the hardware you run the wallet software (bitcoin-qt) on
1365 2013-06-01 22:06:49 <ptote> so my private key is the "account"
1366 2013-06-01 22:06:51 <ptote> ?
1367 2013-06-01 22:07:12 <aXs___> ptote: there is no account
1368 2013-06-01 22:07:19 <ptote> conceptually of course
1369 2013-06-01 22:07:20 <aXs___> ptote: please read the bitcoin wiki a bit
1370 2013-06-01 22:07:28 <ptote> well wtf, ill go back to banking
1371 2013-06-01 22:07:33 <ptote> just playin...
1372 2013-06-01 22:07:34 <ptote> heh
1373 2013-06-01 22:07:43 <ptote> ok ok
1374 2013-06-01 22:07:50 <ptote> tough crowd
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1380 2013-06-01 22:18:19 <Luke-Jr> ptote: no
1381 2013-06-01 22:18:33 <Luke-Jr> ptote: accounts are a client-side abstraction within your wallet
1382 2013-06-01 22:18:47 <Luke-Jr> your wallet is a file; if you lose the file, everything is gone forever
1383 2013-06-01 22:19:23 DaQatz has joined
1384 2013-06-01 22:19:59 <ryan-c> ptote: I'd be happy to send you some testnet btc if the faucet is empty
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1394 2013-06-01 22:35:09 <diki> ugh, someone is spamming with the battery staple address again
1395 2013-06-01 22:37:59 <petertodd> diki: new spam or just rebroadcasting the old tx's?
1396 2013-06-01 22:38:25 <diki> I wouldn't know. Saw them on blockchain.info just now, from 1st of June
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1398 2013-06-01 22:38:31 <diki> so it could be either
1399 2013-06-01 22:38:39 <petertodd> tx hash?
1400 2013-06-01 22:39:28 <diki> http://blockchain.info/tx/f46034089d11b8390e292c809a1df79a648c2823249a54dad919900834b2979e
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1402 2013-06-01 22:39:58 <petertodd> that's an old tx I think
1403 2013-06-01 22:40:08 <diki> and then http://blockchain.info/tx/b83e87702115b149a0f10348b46861a7715d591df77fbe39ae12d7873677049f
1404 2013-06-01 22:40:14 <diki> and a couple of more
1405 2013-06-01 22:40:31 <petertodd> yeah, that's just people trying to spend it, not create more
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1413 2013-06-01 22:49:44 <oleganza> hey guys. i'm digging Bitcoin-QT code.
1414 2013-06-01 22:49:54 <oleganza> why do we need CPrivKey when CSecret is enough?
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1417 2013-06-01 22:50:07 <oleganza> i see CPrivKey is used in wallet.cpp
1418 2013-06-01 22:51:07 <oleganza> Does CPrivKey contain all curve parameters, so you can use it without knowing which curve is used? But Bitcoin uses only one curve, so we don't really need it? I'm probably mistaken somewhere.
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1434 2013-06-01 23:10:34 <newy6> just getting started w/ bitcoin.  i setup bitcoind on a linux box - its been about 48 hours but getinfo is still showing its on block 233272.  goes up by a couple blocks every few seconds when i check.  should it take this long?
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1436 2013-06-01 23:11:10 <IanCormac> Yes
1437 2013-06-01 23:12:54 <newy6> i see. what is it doing exactly?  just downloading blockchain info?
1438 2013-06-01 23:12:54 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
1439 2013-06-01 23:12:54 <newy6> is it on the order of 8 gb now?
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1446 2013-06-01 23:26:29 <shesek> I'm trying to derive keys from a master public/private key and some hash. can someone validate I'm doing it correctly? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ca039247a17228ed67b6
1447 2013-06-01 23:26:33 <shesek> (bitcoinjs)
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1449 2013-06-01 23:33:24 <diki> newy6:over 15 gigs for me
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