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 249 2013-06-02 07:13:33 <warren> sipa: I have commits for secp256k1 gitian, want pulls?
 250 2013-06-02 07:14:01 <warren> sipa: I want to know how you handle src/secp256k1, submodule?  subtree like leveldb?
 251 2013-06-02 07:15:08 <warren> sipa: currently I have it in a separate tar file that extracts to src/secp256k1, but that's probably wrong.
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 262 2013-06-02 07:34:37 <sipa> warren: for now, send them as pullreqs to sipa/bitcoin.git branch secp256k1
 263 2013-06-02 07:35:31 <sipa> ;;later tell oleganza CPrivKey is how private keys used to be serialized in the wallet, and it's retained for backward compatibility
 264 2013-06-02 07:35:32 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 266 2013-06-02 07:38:32 <warren> sipa: OK.  Should I leave /src/secp256k1 out entirely?  no subtree or anything?
 267 2013-06-02 07:38:53 <warren> sipa: my gitian recipes won't work unless something copies the source in during gitian
 268 2013-06-02 07:45:10 <sipa> oh, i see
 269 2013-06-02 07:46:27 <warren> this I've been wondering how you want to handle src/secp256k1, like the new leveldb subtree?
 270 2013-06-02 07:46:33 <warren> thus*
 271 2013-06-02 07:47:20 <sipa> that seems like a good solution, but i'm not familiar with git-subtree (yet)
 272 2013-06-02 07:47:30 <sipa> i guess for now it
 273 2013-06-02 07:47:39 <sipa> i guess for now it's easy enough to just copy the source in
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 283 2013-06-02 08:09:39 <oleganza> sipa: so if I write my own wallet from scratch, I can ignore CPrivKey?
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 296 2013-06-02 08:25:49 <Aurigae> anybody here? Im suspicious on the bitcoin community and how it deals with scammers.
 297 2013-06-02 08:25:49 <Aurigae> Why can bitclockers operate, why does nobody care? They have 1st pos in google for bitcoin mining pool! and still appear on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools .
 298 2013-06-02 08:25:49 <Aurigae> I tried to rgister with the directory but still cant edit, cant figure an option todo so.
 299 2013-06-02 08:25:49 <Aurigae> SRSLY  speakin, there are plenty of options to pwn a site, from reverse SEO, community actions to preventing listings is popular directories.
 300 2013-06-02 08:25:49 <Aurigae> Im mostly busy but it starts to provoke me, not bitclockers and its scammyness but the not caring by the bitcoin community, you hurt new users - who get dissapointed and hurt bitcoin, it contra productive
 301 2013-06-02 08:26:33 <Aurigae> <--- just finished ranting
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 328 2013-06-02 09:15:52 <sipa> ;;later tell oleganza yes, you don't need the CPrivKey's in that case
 329 2013-06-02 09:15:52 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 357 2013-06-02 10:47:45 <sf92ug> hey guys
 358 2013-06-02 10:49:09 <sf92ug> just wanted to ask why 0.8.2 is not tagged yet and why it shows "beta" in the startup screen and not on the bitcoin.org website
 359 2013-06-02 10:49:51 <warren> sipa: copying the source in isn't how gitian wants it.  I guess I'll just put the secp256k1 git tree into a tarball in gitian/inputs/ until we have a better way.
 360 2013-06-02 10:50:20 <warren> sipa: the leveldb commit for 0.9 that uses subtree isn't the right solution here?
 361 2013-06-02 10:51:37 * BlueMatt still votes for an option to compile secp256k1 as a simple openssl wrapper, merge it into bitcoin mainline and let releases use ssl-wrapper mode for a while
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 370 2013-06-02 11:02:07 <warren> BlueMatt: I'd like that too.
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 416 2013-06-02 12:23:47 <BlueMatt> warren: have you done a reimport with secp256k1 recently?
 417 2013-06-02 12:30:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: ^
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 492 2013-06-02 14:54:52 <Vinnie_win> What does secp256k1 and openssl have to do with each other??
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 499 2013-06-02 14:57:57 <Scrat> probably meant sipa's secp256k1 code
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 501 2013-06-02 14:58:07 <Vinnie_win> Okay but what's that got to do with OpenSSL?
 502 2013-06-02 14:58:21 <Vinnie_win> OpenSSL is for transport layer security, while secp256k1 is for signature verification?
 503 2013-06-02 14:58:27 <Scrat> openssl is currently handling this part
 504 2013-06-02 14:58:51 <Vinnie_win> So an openssl wrapper lets calling code utilize the new routines transparently?
 505 2013-06-02 15:00:12 <Scrat> I guess so
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 570 2013-06-02 16:42:04 <graingert> aw yeah
 571 2013-06-02 16:42:10 <graingert> I have myself an IPv6
 572 2013-06-02 16:42:14 <graingert> (some)
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 577 2013-06-02 16:47:24 <graingert> oh my hidden host has hidden it
 578 2013-06-02 16:47:25 <graingert> oh well
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 618 2013-06-02 17:34:48 <sipa> warren: i've used git-subtree to make my 'secp256k1' branch of bitcoin include the libsecp256k1 source tree
 619 2013-06-02 17:35:32 <Diablo-D3> woah wtf
 620 2013-06-02 17:35:38 <Diablo-D3> I just switched to 0.8.2
 621 2013-06-02 17:35:49 <Diablo-D3> I had bitcoin-qt off for a couple days
 622 2013-06-02 17:35:53 <Diablo-D3> why is it syncing so fast
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 627 2013-06-02 17:37:55 <maaku> Diablo-D3: i wish my 0.8.2 was syncing faster
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 630 2013-06-02 17:39:30 <sipa> maaku: what is the bottleneck?
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 634 2013-06-02 17:40:07 <nsh> Diablo-D3, the NSA made some code improvments
 635 2013-06-02 17:40:14 <maaku> sipa: probably network, but honestly I haven't profiled
 636 2013-06-02 17:40:33 i2pRelay has joined
 637 2013-06-02 17:41:13 <maaku> I'm still on a ~500kbps DSL despite living in the middle of silicon valley
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 639 2013-06-02 17:41:39 <Diablo-D3> wtf.
 640 2013-06-02 17:41:57 <Diablo-D3> if you're in SF, you can get 1gbps for like $25/mo or some shit
 641 2013-06-02 17:42:00 <gonffen> maaku: how much do you pay for that?
 642 2013-06-02 17:42:13 <maaku> $50/mo + taxes
 643 2013-06-02 17:42:17 <maaku> Diablo-D3: San Jose :(
 644 2013-06-02 17:42:24 <gonffen> ouch
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 647 2013-06-02 17:43:19 <gonffen> I had dsl from verizon for a while. It was 1000/386, but I only paid ~$20/mo.
 648 2013-06-02 17:43:36 <Diablo-D3> I have 3/768 atm and I live in maine.
 649 2013-06-02 17:43:42 <Diablo-D3> and I pay $35/mo.
 650 2013-06-02 17:43:48 jaake has quit (Quit: ZzZzZz)
 651 2013-06-02 17:43:56 <maaku> well eventually Sonic will roll out gigabit for almost the same price: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/gigabit-internet-for-80-the-unlikely-success-of-californias-sonicnet/
 652 2013-06-02 17:44:03 <maaku> they just haven't hit my neighborhood yet :(
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 655 2013-06-02 17:44:53 <sipa> maaku: were you at the conference?
 656 2013-06-02 17:45:05 <maaku> yeah
 657 2013-06-02 17:45:12 starsoccer has joined
 658 2013-06-02 17:45:13 <sipa> can't remember meeting you :)
 659 2013-06-02 17:45:19 jaake has joined
 660 2013-06-02 17:45:30 <maaku> i'm not sure we ran into each other :(
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 663 2013-06-02 17:45:47 <maaku> i was on the alt-chain panel, and attended most of the tech talks
 664 2013-06-02 17:45:47 <sipa> and if it's network, you mean bandwidth or bitcoin's peer selection mechanism?
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 667 2013-06-02 17:46:10 <sipa> then we've likely been in the same room at least!
 668 2013-06-02 17:46:22 <sipa> afk
 669 2013-06-02 17:46:22 <nsh> maaku, are you freicoin?
 670 2013-06-02 17:46:31 <maaku> yes
 671 2013-06-02 17:46:34 <nsh> how is the new difficulty algo working out?
 672 2013-06-02 17:46:52 <maaku> sipa: just bandwidth - i max out when syncing
 673 2013-06-02 17:47:09 <nsh> (would be interested in some analysis once there's enough data)
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 675 2013-06-02 17:47:50 <maaku> nsh: this is it's response so far: http://i.imgur.com/98Whj4r.png
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 677 2013-06-02 17:48:08 <gonffen> maaku: $40/mo is right around the sweet spot for me. Do you know if it is 100/100?
 678 2013-06-02 17:48:28 <nsh> maaku, hmmm
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 680 2013-06-02 17:48:56 <maaku> gonffen: it's about 100/40 (down/up) - the Sonic tech was cool and let me set my own ratio :)
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 683 2013-06-02 17:49:17 <gonffen> heh that's awesome :)
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 687 2013-06-02 17:50:04 <maaku> nsh: when the nethash randomly swings up or down 10x due to profitability, there's very little you can do :\
 688 2013-06-02 17:50:12 starsoccer has joined
 689 2013-06-02 17:50:26 <nsh> maaku, indeed
 690 2013-06-02 17:50:27 grau has joined
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 692 2013-06-02 17:50:51 <maaku> the filter is tuned for steady-state, long term behavior, using bitcoin nethash data as the input
 693 2013-06-02 17:51:13 <maaku> but so far it's at least kept us from having to do any more drastic measures or hard forks, despite 10x nethash swings
 694 2013-06-02 17:51:21 <nsh> this is good
 695 2013-06-02 17:52:03 <nsh> i wonder if more work on merged mining tech and recruitment could help reduce altcoin nethash variances
 696 2013-06-02 17:53:43 <nsh> i'm not sure there's even consensus that this would be a Good Thing
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 699 2013-06-02 17:55:30 <ProfMac> This miner and difficulty variance is happening with bytecoin now.  Blocks are as slow as 1 per day, and difficculty schedule to drop to 10% of it's current value.
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 701 2013-06-02 17:56:13 <ProfMac> I wondered what the implication would be of making the difficulty be based on the past 1600 blocks, rather than evaluated after 1600 blocks.
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 713 2013-06-02 18:05:01 <TheLordOfTime> anyone here want to scan their node to see if a specific transaction shows up in the blockchain?
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 716 2013-06-02 18:06:09 <warren> sipa: git subtree work well for that purpose?
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 718 2013-06-02 18:08:02 <TheLordOfTime> better question, is there a way to check the blockchain on my node to find a specific transaction?
 719 2013-06-02 18:08:11 <TheLordOfTime> using bitcoin-qt's RPC console in the debug window
 720 2013-06-02 18:09:52 <warren> sipa: hmm, I wonder if I can avoid git subtree or manual copying in the shell script with by adding another section to remotes:
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 724 2013-06-02 18:11:54 <maaku> TheLordOfTime: getrawtransaction
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 727 2013-06-02 18:15:14 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
 728 2013-06-02 18:15:27 <TheLordOfTime> maaku:  can i scan for transactions that aren't mine in that manner too?
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 731 2013-06-02 18:19:43 <BlueMatt> sipa: have you ever sync'd past 238797 on libsecp256k1?
 732 2013-06-02 18:20:02 <BlueMatt> (last friday's block)
 733 2013-06-02 18:20:14 <realazthat> TheLordOfTime: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
 734 2013-06-02 18:20:23 <realazthat> I dunno about the debug window, never used it
 735 2013-06-02 18:20:33 <realazthat> but you can run bitcoind on the commandline
 736 2013-06-02 18:20:57 <realazthat> like, ./bitcoind gettransaction <txid>
 737 2013-06-02 18:21:31 <TheLordOfTime> realazthat:  i thin kthey're the same, just that one's the RPC console for it
 738 2013-06-02 18:21:36 <realazthat> TheLordOfTime: as for tx's that aren't yours, I am not sure if you can do that by default
 739 2013-06-02 18:21:39 <realazthat> there is a txindex option
 740 2013-06-02 18:21:47 <realazthat> in your conf file
 741 2013-06-02 18:21:49 <realazthat> txindex=1
 742 2013-06-02 18:21:53 <realazthat> or somesuch
 743 2013-06-02 18:22:09 <realazthat> it requires you to run -reindex once
 744 2013-06-02 18:22:17 <realazthat> I dunno if you can do that through the UI
 745 2013-06-02 18:22:41 <realazthat> but once you reindex it should work in the debug window, if it is indeed the same
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 750 2013-06-02 18:26:56 <TheLordOfTime> realazthat:  if getrawtransaction returns nothing does that mean the transaction hasn't been picked up by any bitcoin nodes yet, or that it hasn't been broadcasted yet?
 751 2013-06-02 18:28:22 <gonffen> it doesn't necessarily mean either of those things
 752 2013-06-02 18:28:51 <gonffen> just because some nodes know about it doesn't mean your node does
 753 2013-06-02 18:29:30 <realazthat> TheLordOfTime: like I said, I am not sure if you have to have txindex on, but also, it might not have reached you yet
 754 2013-06-02 18:29:39 <realazthat> but it is supposed to spread really quick though
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 756 2013-06-02 18:30:43 <realazthat> This release no longer maintains a full index of historical transaction ids
 757 2013-06-02 18:30:43 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
 758 2013-06-02 18:30:44 <realazthat> by default, so looking up an arbitrary transaction using the getrawtransaction
 759 2013-06-02 18:30:44 <realazthat> RPC call will not work. If you need that functionality, you must run once
 760 2013-06-02 18:30:44 <realazthat> with -txindex=1 -reindex=1 to rebuild block-chain indices (see below for more
 761 2013-06-02 18:30:44 <realazthat> details).
 762 2013-06-02 18:31:01 <realazthat> from bitcoin-0.8.0 release notes
 763 2013-06-02 18:31:30 <realazthat> TheLordOfTime: ^^
 764 2013-06-02 18:33:00 <TheLordOfTime> bleh
 765 2013-06-02 18:33:36 <TheLordOfTime> realazthat:  i might do that later, main issue is that the transaction hasn't shown up in blockchain.info or blockexplorer, and  is sitting "unconfirmed" in the wallet
 766 2013-06-02 18:33:50 <TheLordOfTime> so i'm trying to figure out if it's just not picked up in the blockchain yet, or if something else is going on
 767 2013-06-02 18:33:57 <BlueMatt> dust output?
 768 2013-06-02 18:34:15 <realazthat> mmm dunno :/
 769 2013-06-02 18:34:18 <TheLordOfTime> no, ~1BTC.
 770 2013-06-02 18:34:39 <BlueMatt> what about change value?
 771 2013-06-02 18:35:09 <TheLordOfTime> BlueMatt:  its possible to see that on a receive transaction?
 772 2013-06-02 18:35:24 <TheLordOfTime> (it was received and has been sitting as unconfirmed, i didn't send the btc)
 773 2013-06-02 18:35:35 <BlueMatt> are you on 0.8.2?
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 776 2013-06-02 18:41:13 <Julius129> how secure is "verifymessage" should it be considered for a login or authentication scheme?
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 778 2013-06-02 18:42:24 <TheLordOfTime> BlueMatt:  mhm
 779 2013-06-02 18:42:29 <TheLordOfTime> BlueMatt:  doesn't matter, it's in the chain now
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 782 2013-06-02 18:55:06 <Vinnie_win> So it looks like the market absorbed that big sale and all the hubbaballoo is over
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 802 2013-06-02 19:16:34 <BlueMatt> petertod1: nope, good now, thanks
 803 2013-06-02 19:17:29 <petertod1> BlueMatt: np
 804 2013-06-02 19:17:56 petertod1 is now known as petertodd
 805 2013-06-02 19:18:04 <BlueMatt> found another bug in bitcoinj script verification :(
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 809 2013-06-02 19:18:24 <BlueMatt> this time because values were being serialized as unsigned integers, when they're really signed
 810 2013-06-02 19:18:33 <petertodd> BlueMatt: ha lovely
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 812 2013-06-02 19:18:42 <petertodd> BlueMatt: did sipa mention the possible one I found to you?
 813 2013-06-02 19:18:49 <BlueMatt> in bitcoinj?
 814 2013-06-02 19:18:49 <BlueMatt> no
 815 2013-06-02 19:19:43 <petertodd> good, he probably found a reason it didn't matter
 816 2013-06-02 19:20:00 <ecoloco> Why is the course so unstable right now? It has fallen from 135$-140$, to 120$ now in just a few days?
 817 2013-06-02 19:20:12 <BlueMatt> ecoloco: wrong channel
 818 2013-06-02 19:20:34 <ecoloco> BlueMatt: what channel should I ask in?
 819 2013-06-02 19:20:45 <BlueMatt> probably #bitcoin-otc
 820 2013-06-02 19:20:52 <BlueMatt> or really #bitcoin-pricetalk
 821 2013-06-02 19:21:09 <chmod755> ^^^
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 823 2013-06-02 19:24:54 <nsh> BlueMatt, repercussions?
 824 2013-06-02 19:25:07 <nsh> (of script validation bug)
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 830 2013-06-02 19:27:54 <BlueMatt> nsh: anyone who is using bitcoinj full validation would have failed to validate the chain a few days ago
 831 2013-06-02 19:28:16 <nsh> oh, right, that the block you mentioned earlier
 832 2013-06-02 19:28:16 <BlueMatt> nsh: but since bitcoinj full verification is still very much beta, its discouraged and I dunno of too many people using it
 833 2013-06-02 19:28:21 * nsh nods
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 835 2013-06-02 19:28:24 <nsh> *at
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 837 2013-06-02 19:28:45 <BlueMatt> (the only time negative values are serialized as such is in SIGHASH_SINGLE, so any non-verification tasks should be fine)
 838 2013-06-02 19:28:51 <petertodd> for most more mundane bitcoinj uses, merchants and stuff, I assume that probably wouldn't have affected anything right?
 839 2013-06-02 19:30:13 <runeks> WOO! I *finally* figured out how to use tc and iptables to limit traffic to and from port 8333.
 840 2013-06-02 19:30:22 <runeks> Let me know if you are interested in the script.
 841 2013-06-02 19:30:37 <runeks> Means that I can have bitcoind running at all times, without worrying about it consuming all my outbound bandwidth.
 842 2013-06-02 19:31:01 <nsh> runeks, worth posting imho
 843 2013-06-02 19:31:06 <BlueMatt> yes, unless you call script verification on a SIGHASH_SINGLE script, nothing is effected
 844 2013-06-02 19:31:22 jMyles has joined
 845 2013-06-02 19:31:23 <BlueMatt> (and even then some _SINGLE signatures arent effected)
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 848 2013-06-02 19:32:33 <petertodd> runeks: consider writing it up as a pull-req to go into the contrib/ directory in bitcoin-qt
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 854 2013-06-02 19:35:36 <runeks> nsh: Here you go: http://pastebin.com/BqvMnqAE
 855 2013-06-02 19:35:49 <nsh> ty
 856 2013-06-02 19:36:02 <nsh> dem incantations!
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 859 2013-06-02 19:36:24 <runeks> It also makes sure not to limit LAN traffic. So if you have an always-online bitcoind instance running, and you connect your local bitcoind to that, traffic won't be limited to you.
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 862 2013-06-02 19:37:10 <runeks> BEWARE
 863 2013-06-02 19:37:15 <runeks> I forgot to say this
 864 2013-06-02 19:37:26 <runeks> It deleted ALL existing rules in the iptables OUTPUT chain
 865 2013-06-02 19:37:53 <runeks> Was mostly used for testing though. Perhaps I should remove that.
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 867 2013-06-02 19:38:14 <runeks> nsh: What do you mean by "incantations?"
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 869 2013-06-02 19:38:55 <runeks> petertodd: I think I will do that.
 870 2013-06-02 19:39:16 <runeks> Took me a while to figure out
 871 2013-06-02 19:40:22 <petertodd> runeks: Thanks. Don't be surprised when it gets a bunch of criticism though. :) Take the opportunity to get all the bugs out of the script.
 872 2013-06-02 19:41:29 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 873 2013-06-02 19:41:31 <nsh> runeks, linux commands of a mystical and abstruse nature
 874 2013-06-02 19:41:31 <runeks> petertodd: We'll see. I can't see any bugs for now. Mostly because it's really simple. Two classes. One unlimited (1gbit), one limited. Traffic to/from port 8333, but not to a LAN address, is limited. End of story.
 875 2013-06-02 19:41:34 <nsh> (iptables)
 876 2013-06-02 19:41:40 <runeks> nsh: Ah :)
 877 2013-06-02 19:41:43 <petertodd> runeks: Sounds good. Write it up!
 878 2013-06-02 19:42:12 <petertodd> runeks: Include a decent README or similar to document how it works too - with firewalls people are probably not going to run your exact script.
 879 2013-06-02 19:42:14 <runeks> nsh: It makes a lot more sense when you read through the guides. Took me a while though. Precisely because it looks so cryptic on first inspection.
 880 2013-06-02 19:42:45 <runeks> petertodd: I'll do that. But the script itself contains a lot of comments too,
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 882 2013-06-02 19:43:09 <petertodd> runeks: Oh, yeah comments in the script are the perfect way to do it.
 883 2013-06-02 19:44:09 <nsh> runeks, indeed. i just have trouble remembering any of the things i learnt from one instance of reading the manpage to another
 884 2013-06-02 19:44:23 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 885 2013-06-02 19:44:52 <runeks> nsh: I never learn by manpages. Or at least only to refine what I've learned through simpler guides. I think the tc/iptables manpages would take a week to read (and understand).
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 894 2013-06-02 20:00:35 <nsh> runeks, indeed
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 899 2013-06-02 20:05:06 <nsh> has there been much research into address cache pollution attacks?
 900 2013-06-02 20:06:21 Phoebus has joined
 901 2013-06-02 20:08:00 <runeks> Done: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2728
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 904 2013-06-02 20:14:36 <nsh> Luke-Jr, how are tonal numbers going to save the world and give me eternal caviar and felatio?
 905 2013-06-02 20:14:45 * nsh is somewhat confused
 906 2013-06-02 20:15:11 <Luke-Jr> nsh: trolling is off-topic here
 907 2013-06-02 20:15:44 <nsh> sorry, i was being somewhat serious, but you're right it's not ontopic here
 908 2013-06-02 20:16:02 * nsh finishes reading posts/wiki
 909 2013-06-02 20:16:54 <gwillen> nsh: you also misspelled fellatio
 910 2013-06-02 20:17:21 * nsh performs penance
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 962 2013-06-02 20:57:45 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
 963 2013-06-02 20:57:45 <gribble> 239338
 964 2013-06-02 21:00:46 <dansmith_btc> Hi, I followed the instructions ( https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071 )  of creating a 2-of-3 address, then first sending BTC to it and then spending them.  However the spend-from-multisig tx is not shown on blockchain.info. What happened to it?
 965 2013-06-02 21:00:51 <dansmith_btc> txid 9079a33a220afd75cfaf4d155d1a14f655aab4e781f99a3c405921389c7e9864
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 969 2013-06-02 21:03:54 <petertodd> dansmith_btc: blockchain.info doesn't show multisig until they are confirmed
 970 2013-06-02 21:04:08 <dansmith_btc> petertodd, thanks
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 973 2013-06-02 21:12:29 <warren> Hmm, the 0.7 backport with the May 15th hardfork isn't listed on bitcoin.org
 974 2013-06-02 21:12:31 <warren> was it unofficial?
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 976 2013-06-02 21:15:21 <Luke-Jr> warren: ?
 977 2013-06-02 21:15:57 <Luke-Jr> backports are for people already using the old versions who can't upgrade; we don't want new users to use them
 978 2013-06-02 21:16:49 <warren> Luke-Jr: I know.  I'm just looking for source for backports for the silly alt coin.
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 986 2013-06-02 21:25:09 <ecoloco> The course is like a roller coaster now
 987 2013-06-02 21:26:12 twmz_ is now known as twmz
 988 2013-06-02 21:27:56 <MC1984_> who on earth could be locked into an old beta version already?
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 993 2013-06-02 21:30:05 <Luke-Jr> MC1984_: anyone who uses patches to get specific functionality not mainlined
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1005 2013-06-02 21:42:55 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
1006 2013-06-02 21:42:57 <gribble> 239346
1007 2013-06-02 21:43:25 <owowo> hm, I noticed something odd, I just snyced my wallet and now my spend transactions are not shown in the list anymore, but they were showing when I started it
1008 2013-06-02 21:43:50 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1009 2013-06-02 21:43:52 <owowo> Is it meant to be this way?
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1028 2013-06-02 22:05:18 <passepartout> Hi everyone - I have a question: how might I recover BitCoins from a Change address that is in a corrupted wallet?
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1036 2013-06-02 22:11:21 <midnightmagic> passepartout: salvagewallet maybe.
1037 2013-06-02 22:12:30 <passepartout> OK thanks midnightmagic will try that.
1038 2013-06-02 22:15:05 <warren> bitcointalk is down.
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1045 2013-06-02 22:19:25 <phantomcircuit> passepartout, make sure you keep a backup of course
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1048 2013-06-02 22:28:17 <nsh> warren, up for me
1049 2013-06-02 22:33:09 <warren> ah, back
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1061 2013-06-02 22:49:26 <dansmith_btc> Hi, is it possible to sign a transaction on an unsynced bitcoind (having the correct priv key, of course)?
1062 2013-06-02 22:50:05 <gwillen> dansmith_btc: you need to sync to the point where the coins were received
1063 2013-06-02 22:50:16 <gwillen> but note that if some of the coins were later spent
1064 2013-06-02 22:50:28 <nsh> you're be shot.
1065 2013-06-02 22:50:30 <nsh> *you'll
1066 2013-06-02 22:50:31 <gwillen> you might get in trouble by signing a transaction that spends coins it doesn't know are already spent.
1067 2013-06-02 22:50:34 <gwillen> right.
1068 2013-06-02 22:50:57 <dansmith_btc> wow, I thought signrawtransaction can be used in an offline mode
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1070 2013-06-02 22:52:31 oleganza has joined
1071 2013-06-02 22:52:41 <dansmith_btc> What is the rationale for not letting just sign a transaction and sending it? If I'm not the owner of the output I signed, the tx will be rejected by the network.
1072 2013-06-02 22:52:43 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1073 2013-06-02 22:52:53 <nsh> it can, but in terms of "doin' it right" for the network, it makes sense to sign transactions only when you have an up-to-date blockchain
1074 2013-06-02 22:53:11 agnostic98 has joined
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1076 2013-06-02 22:54:12 <dansmith_btc> nsh, so bitcoind refuses to sign outputs that are not in the wallet then?
1077 2013-06-02 22:54:51 porquilho has joined
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1079 2013-06-02 22:55:29 * nsh is not certain, defers to higher authority
1080 2013-06-02 22:57:01 <dansmith_btc> OK, I'll launch bitcoind with a clean datadir and check myself
1081 2013-06-02 22:58:50 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: you have to know the pubkey for a transaction in order to identify the right keys to use and the right script to write
1082 2013-06-02 22:58:54 Guest83631 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1083 2013-06-02 22:59:10 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: the sign command allows you to specify the scriptpubkey for the inputs however.
1084 2013-06-02 22:59:21 Guest83631 has joined
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1086 2013-06-02 22:59:50 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, OK, so you're saying it can be done in an unsynced mode?
1087 2013-06-02 23:00:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, maybe, why?
1088 2013-06-02 23:00:08 <gmaxwell> Yes.
1089 2013-06-02 23:00:21 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt
1090 2013-06-02 23:01:26 tyn has joined
1091 2013-06-02 23:01:48 <nsh> gmaxwell, you should convince/bribe someone to turn that textfile into a pretty-thing
1092 2013-06-02 23:02:33 <gmaxwell> I'm perfectly capable of formating it myself, but I doubt anyone who's turned off by the text will actually complete the procedure.
1093 2013-06-02 23:02:37 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1094 2013-06-02 23:03:19 <gmaxwell> s/doubt/doubtful
1095 2013-06-02 23:03:24 <nsh> well, it's another matter if you're actively trying to solve a problem. but i've had the page open before and just gone glossybrained from hexstring:english ratio
1096 2013-06-02 23:04:05 <nsh> it's comprehensible second-time around with additional motivation
1097 2013-06-02 23:04:05 * nsh shrugs
1098 2013-06-02 23:04:49 <gmaxwell> nsh: no matter how many pretty monospaced divs you draw around it— it'll still be "oh my god, it's full of hex"
1099 2013-06-02 23:04:51 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, it says there " We need to provide the scriptpubkey of the inputs we're signing so our offline wallet knows which of its keys to use." What if I know already which priv key to use, can I forgo scriptPubKey?
1100 2013-06-02 23:04:53 <gmaxwell> :P
1101 2013-06-02 23:05:06 * nsh smiles
1102 2013-06-02 23:05:29 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: No. It still needs it in order to figure out how to write the script that satisfies it.
1103 2013-06-02 23:05:57 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: you might be able to get away with copying one from another transaction that pays that address though.
1104 2013-06-02 23:06:12 <gmaxwell> (including one you just createrawtransactioned for that express purpose
1105 2013-06-02 23:06:14 <gmaxwell> )
1106 2013-06-02 23:06:17 <nsh> with a 10% probability of immanentizing the eschaton
1107 2013-06-02 23:07:17 <gmaxwell> gp
1108 2013-06-02 23:07:20 <gmaxwell> oops
1109 2013-06-02 23:07:45 <phantomcircuit> dansmith_btc, what's your use case
1110 2013-06-02 23:08:22 <dansmith_btc> trying to create an escrow for users of blockchain.info
1111 2013-06-02 23:08:58 <dansmith_btc> the users will have to fall back on bitcoind's RPC in n unsynced mode
1112 2013-06-02 23:10:06 rdponticelli has joined
1113 2013-06-02 23:10:17 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: someone should _never_ spend an transaction paying to them without a copy of the transaction. If they're willing to do that you can trick them into diverting most of the funds to fees.
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1117 2013-06-02 23:11:07 <phantomcircuit> every year charles schwab sends me their annual report
1118 2013-06-02 23:11:10 <phantomcircuit> i have 2 shares
1119 2013-06-02 23:11:16 <phantomcircuit> collectively worth like
1120 2013-06-02 23:11:17 <phantomcircuit> $40
1121 2013-06-02 23:11:19 <phantomcircuit> WHYY
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1123 2013-06-02 23:11:37 agnostic98 has joined
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1125 2013-06-02 23:12:21 <petertodd> BlueMatt: What's the state of re-organization tests right now?
1126 2013-06-02 23:13:04 <petertodd> BlueMatt: Looking at my child-pays-for-parent mempool stuff again, and reorgs will be one of the more complex cases.
1127 2013-06-02 23:13:25 patcon has joined
1128 2013-06-02 23:13:38 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, ic, but in my case they will be spending their own transaction which is sitting in their blockchain.info wallet (blockchain.info doesn't allow sending BTC into multi-sig addresses, hence this workaround)
1129 2013-06-02 23:14:40 Guest83631 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1132 2013-06-02 23:16:08 <nsh> phantomcircuit, to justify you dressing and acting like a victorian steel magnate, obviously
1133 2013-06-02 23:16:10 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: "blockchain.info doesn't allow sending BTC into multi-sig addresses" < hm? what does that mean?
1134 2013-06-02 23:16:54 ielo has joined
1135 2013-06-02 23:16:57 <nsh> (unrelated charles schwab, but nevertheless...)
1136 2013-06-02 23:17:11 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, try sending BTC into addresses like 3JNaZ9A1yMpRTGyoG9Vq9MvvjKcECYbSoo , they won't allow
1137 2013-06-02 23:17:18 <phantomcircuit> nsh, lol
1138 2013-06-02 23:17:29 agnostic_ has joined
1139 2013-06-02 23:17:34 <ielo> phantomcircuit, hey
1140 2013-06-02 23:17:54 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: what?!
1141 2013-06-02 23:18:07 <gmaxwell> thats insane!
1142 2013-06-02 23:18:23 <phantomcircuit> ielo, hello
1143 2013-06-02 23:18:30 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: has anyone asked them to fix that?
1144 2013-06-02 23:18:41 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1145 2013-06-02 23:18:52 <petertodd> gmaxwell: I did almost a year ago
1146 2013-06-02 23:19:02 <sipa> wait, they don't allow P2SH addresses?
1147 2013-06-02 23:19:08 <petertodd> sipa: yup
1148 2013-06-02 23:19:14 <sipa> perhaps not remarkable given that they're hardly used...
1149 2013-06-02 23:19:19 <petertodd> sipa: most services don't
1150 2013-06-02 23:19:23 paracyst has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1151 2013-06-02 23:19:29 SteveDekorte has joined
1152 2013-06-02 23:19:31 <phantomcircuit> lots of stuff doesn't...
1153 2013-06-02 23:19:34 <gmaxwell> or conversely, not remarkable that they're hardly used.
1154 2013-06-02 23:19:46 <petertodd> easywallet is another example that doesn't support them
1155 2013-06-02 23:19:52 <nsh> there's this: https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow
1156 2013-06-02 23:19:56 cads has joined
1157 2013-06-02 23:20:02 <gmaxwell> dansmith_btc: do you really want to do business with someone who can't be bothered to make a ~two line change to their software in two years?
1158 2013-06-02 23:20:04 <petertodd> yup, and why would you use them if they aren't supported...
1159 2013-06-02 23:20:42 <nsh> seems to indicate support for multisig transactions, but what do i know
1160 2013-06-02 23:21:10 viperhr has joined
1161 2013-06-02 23:21:36 <dansmith_btc> gmaxwell, well it's not me doing business, I'm simply creating a tool which will enable blockchain.info users. But I see your point.
1162 2013-06-02 23:21:58 Tasqa_ has joined
1163 2013-06-02 23:21:59 <sipa> dansmith_btc: how will it work?
1164 2013-06-02 23:22:38 panzer has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1165 2013-06-02 23:23:02 <dansmith_btc> sipa, a user with a blockchain account and an unsynced bitcoind will create multisig, fund it and redeem it.
1166 2013-06-02 23:23:07 Tasqa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1168 2013-06-02 23:23:39 <sipa> redeem it how?
1169 2013-06-02 23:24:27 <dansmith_btc> sipa, I mean create a multisig address. Redeem when transaction goes through OK, both buyer and seller signrawtransaction  spend-from-multisig
1170 2013-06-02 23:25:03 <sipa> how does the b.i user do a signrawtransaction?
1171 2013-06-02 23:25:10 <sipa> do they have an API for that?
1172 2013-06-02 23:25:15 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1173 2013-06-02 23:25:15 <dansmith_btc> His bitcoind will do
1174 2013-06-02 23:25:30 <dansmith_btc> No, they dont have API for that
1175 2013-06-02 23:25:38 <sipa> i'm not following
1176 2013-06-02 23:25:45 <sipa> where are the private keys?
1177 2013-06-02 23:25:52 <dansmith_btc> it's a complicated scenario, I know
1178 2013-06-02 23:26:07 <dansmith_btc> THe private key is both in bitcoind and on b.i
1179 2013-06-02 23:26:16 <dansmith_btc> The user importprivkey to b.i
1180 2013-06-02 23:26:53 tyn has joined
1181 2013-06-02 23:27:09 rdymac has joined
1182 2013-06-02 23:27:40 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt yes, synced past 238797 just fine on libsecp256k1
1183 2013-06-02 23:27:41 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1184 2013-06-02 23:27:46 <dansmith_btc> I'll write up a bitcointalk post for peer review when I'm finished figuring out the details
1185 2013-06-02 23:27:58 <sipa> dansmith_btc: why is b.i involved at all?
1186 2013-06-02 23:28:34 <dansmith_btc> sipa, it will eventually cover other lightweight clients. It's just that b.i is kinda most popular
1187 2013-06-02 23:28:52 <sipa> no, what's the point of having b.i in the loop if the user needs bitcoind too?
1188 2013-06-02 23:29:05 <dansmith_btc> Because bitcoind is UNsynced
1189 2013-06-02 23:29:09 nouitfvf has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1190 2013-06-02 23:29:14 <dansmith_btc> it's just a 10MB download
1191 2013-06-02 23:29:27 <sipa> ah
1192 2013-06-02 23:29:31 <dansmith_btc> So, I'm offering a lightweight way of doing escrow
1193 2013-06-02 23:30:32 paracyst has joined
1194 2013-06-02 23:30:34 <sipa> k
1195 2013-06-02 23:31:09 <sipa> warren: you don't need to do anything anymore, secp256k1 is in the bitcoin source now
1196 2013-06-02 23:31:18 <sipa> warren: in my branch at least
1197 2013-06-02 23:31:40 <warren> sipa: ok, should I also modify the remote address to point at your repo temporarily?
1198 2013-06-02 23:31:42 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, sorry
1199 2013-06-02 23:31:52 <BlueMatt> I wanted to blame secp256k1 for a bug of mine
1200 2013-06-02 23:31:57 <warren> sipa: for the gitian .yml file
1201 2013-06-02 23:32:07 <sipa> warren: i always just build from local sources
1202 2013-06-02 23:32:15 <sipa> don't use the uri in the repo
1203 2013-06-02 23:32:16 <BlueMatt> petertodd: afaik there are no tests for mempool
1204 2013-06-02 23:32:21 <BlueMatt> petertodd: PLEASE write one
1205 2013-06-02 23:32:24 denisx has joined
1206 2013-06-02 23:32:47 santoscork has joined
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1208 2013-06-02 23:33:01 <warren> sipa: trouble is, gitian uses whatever URL is in the .yml
1209 2013-06-02 23:33:15 <sipa> warren: unless you manually put the source tree in inputs/bitcoin
1210 2013-06-02 23:33:35 peetaur2 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1211 2013-06-02 23:33:49 nouitfvf_ has joined
1212 2013-06-02 23:33:58 <warren> oh, it bypasses the URL if you do?
1213 2013-06-02 23:34:00 <sipa> yes
1214 2013-06-02 23:34:05 <warren> and it clones directly from that?
1215 2013-06-02 23:34:12 nouitfvf_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1216 2013-06-02 23:34:22 <warren> ok, didn't realize this.
1217 2013-06-02 23:34:24 <sipa> i suppose it goes a git checkout <commit> in that dir, and then copies the data over
1218 2013-06-02 23:34:31 <sipa> i use a wrapper script
1219 2013-06-02 23:34:42 nouitfvf_ has joined
1220 2013-06-02 23:34:44 <warren> sorry, dealing with three problems at once
1221 2013-06-02 23:34:58 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/bitcoin-build.sh.txt
1222 2013-06-02 23:34:59 <sipa> :)
1223 2013-06-02 23:35:21 * BlueMatt wonders why the bitcoin 2013 playlist has one that is just "[Private video]"
1224 2013-06-02 23:35:45 <sipa> ?
1225 2013-06-02 23:35:52 <BlueMatt> what are the devs hiding? hmmm...
1226 2013-06-02 23:36:01 <sipa> what? where? link?
1227 2013-06-02 23:36:04 <BlueMatt> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUOP0P68GJ3BGjfqoLLnzAefk3ZzXQtJ7
1228 2013-06-02 23:36:22 <owowo> bitcoinpr0n :P
1229 2013-06-02 23:36:28 <sipa> heh
1230 2013-06-02 23:36:37 <nsh> did you miss the NSA panel?
1231 2013-06-02 23:36:40 <nsh> :)
1232 2013-06-02 23:36:43 <BlueMatt> "NSA buys bitcoin"
1233 2013-06-02 23:36:57 <BlueMatt> ohhhhh, thats how you pronounce Wuille
1234 2013-06-02 23:36:57 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1235 2013-06-02 23:37:04 Ashaman_ has joined
1236 2013-06-02 23:37:12 <sipa> haha
1237 2013-06-02 23:37:32 * BlueMatt has to admit he wasnt sure how to pronounce Pieter either until mike said it
1238 2013-06-02 23:37:35 nouitfvf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1239 2013-06-02 23:37:45 rdymac has joined
1240 2013-06-02 23:37:46 <BlueMatt> (mostly do you pronounce the i)
1241 2013-06-02 23:37:59 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1242 2013-06-02 23:38:07 <sipa> 'ie' in dutch is a long "ee" sound as in "beep"
1243 2013-06-02 23:38:17 <sipa> it's not a diphtongue
1244 2013-06-02 23:38:45 <sipa> diphthong, whatever
1245 2013-06-02 23:38:50 veox has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1246 2013-06-02 23:39:07 <BlueMatt> that just went waaay over my head
1247 2013-06-02 23:39:16 <BlueMatt> my c is better than my english...and my c aint that great
1248 2013-06-02 23:39:21 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1249 2013-06-02 23:39:53 <sipa> diphtong = pronounciation which gradually goes from one sound to another
1250 2013-06-02 23:39:55 nouitfvf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1251 2013-06-02 23:40:03 <sipa> like 'ay' in 'way'
1252 2013-06-02 23:40:09 <BlueMatt> ok...still no idea
1253 2013-06-02 23:40:19 <sipa> anyway, doesn't matter
1254 2013-06-02 23:40:33 <sipa> just say as it was 'Peter' in English and you're close enough
1255 2013-06-02 23:40:43 <BlueMatt> ok, thats what I had been doing...sorry
1256 2013-06-02 23:40:51 nouitfvf has joined
1257 2013-06-02 23:40:56 <sipa> sorry for what?
1258 2013-06-02 23:41:03 <BlueMatt> for not getting your name?
1259 2013-06-02 23:41:04 <BlueMatt> I dunno
1260 2013-06-02 23:41:15 nouitfvf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1261 2013-06-02 23:41:16 <sipa> if you say 'peter', you're very close :D
1262 2013-06-02 23:41:25 <BlueMatt> well, ok :)
1263 2013-06-02 23:41:42 <sipa> the t is somewhat harder than in english, and the r is different
1264 2013-06-02 23:41:45 <sipa> but that's about it
1265 2013-06-02 23:41:54 nouitfvf has joined
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1267 2013-06-02 23:42:08 MobPhone has joined
1268 2013-06-02 23:42:09 * BlueMatt pronounces it with a german accent and probably gets it closer
1269 2013-06-02 23:42:48 Tasqa has joined
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1274 2013-06-02 23:44:47 Skav has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1275 2013-06-02 23:45:01 <nsh> just refer to everyone by individual vulgar expletives
1276 2013-06-02 23:45:09 <nsh> it's much better for community relations
1277 2013-06-02 23:45:11 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1278 2013-06-02 23:45:21 <BlueMatt> yes, thats a good idea fucker
1279 2013-06-02 23:45:51 <nsh> cheers, cuntcheese :)
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1286 2013-06-02 23:51:14 <petertodd> petertodd: Yeah, I'm writing a basic one as I go along.
1287 2013-06-02 23:51:56 <petertodd> BlueMatt: Yeah, I'm writing a basic one as I go along.
1288 2013-06-02 23:53:16 <petertodd> BlueMatt: So do we even have re-org testcases available?
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