1 2013-06-04 00:00:27 <funky3> yes i use pidgit + otr only it seems I am the only one who likes it from my friends :)
2 2013-06-04 00:00:29 <nsh> see also bitmessage for possibly interesting blockchain-based solution
3 2013-06-04 00:00:33 <funky3> *pidgin
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5 2013-06-04 00:00:41 <nsh> funky3, friends are more easier replaced than improved
6 2013-06-04 00:00:44 <nsh> *easily
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9 2013-06-04 00:00:56 <funky3> nods
10 2013-06-04 00:01:00 <funky3> thats true
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12 2013-06-04 00:02:14 <funky3> chinese girls very smart and they dont use irc :(
13 2013-06-04 00:02:15 <funky3> hehe
14 2013-06-04 00:02:22 <funky3> well anyway i try to find a way
15 2013-06-04 00:02:29 <funky3> and yes bitmessage looks interesting
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39 2013-06-04 00:24:40 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ok well other than the derp i dont know how to rebase
40 2013-06-04 00:24:40 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2733
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50 2013-06-04 00:37:00 <devrandom> Luke-Jr: ah, OS signing... that's a problem
51 2013-06-04 00:37:11 <devrandom> perhaps it can be stripped before checking the gitian signature
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54 2013-06-04 00:38:51 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: well, the problem is the EXE compressed inside the installer
55 2013-06-04 00:39:03 mollison has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
56 2013-06-04 00:39:40 <devrandom> so you have to:
57 2013-06-04 00:39:44 <devrandom> * create the EXE
58 2013-06-04 00:40:10 <devrandom> * OS sign the EXE
59 2013-06-04 00:40:26 <devrandom> * create installer
60 2013-06-04 00:40:27 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: I don't see a real solution is possible :/.
61 2013-06-04 00:40:34 <devrandom> * gitian sign the installer
62 2013-06-04 00:40:59 <devrandom> is that right?
63 2013-06-04 00:41:12 <Luke-Jr> obviously we can't make the OS key public, which would mean nobody else could reproduce the OS signing and the installer would be not confirmable
64 2013-06-04 00:41:14 <devrandom> or you need both the OS signed EXE *and* the installer signed?
65 2013-06-04 00:41:41 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: well, it's important than Joe Random User be able to build/confirm himself
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67 2013-06-04 00:42:07 <devrandom> if the OS signature can be skipped when gitian-signing, then it would be workable
68 2013-06-04 00:42:18 <devrandom> can the OS signature be detached and reattached?
69 2013-06-04 00:42:31 <Luke-Jr> not to the EXE inside the installer..
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71 2013-06-04 00:43:54 <devrandom> maybe the OS signature can be detached and stored separately from the EXE, inside the installer
72 2013-06-04 00:44:11 <devrandom> then the gitian signature process can zero-out the OS signature before computing the hash
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90 2013-06-04 01:08:55 <funky3> :)
91 2013-06-04 01:08:58 <funky3> hello
92 2013-06-04 01:09:25 funky3 is now known as alex_fun
93 2013-06-04 01:10:59 * phantomcircuit twiddles thumbs waiting for testnet3 to download
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96 2013-06-04 01:14:42 <nsh> phantomcircuit, what's the testnet3 blockchain size atm?
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104 2013-06-04 01:20:12 <phantomcircuit> nsh, 93k blocks no idea how big that is
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106 2013-06-04 01:21:19 <phantomcircuit> actually
107 2013-06-04 01:21:21 <phantomcircuit> 83242 blocks
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109 2013-06-04 01:22:17 <phantomcircuit> intend to try and find performance issues with wallet handling by actually experimenting with run times
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111 2013-06-04 01:24:00 <nsh> phantomcircuit++ empiricism!
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122 2013-06-04 01:28:25 <phantomcircuit> nsh, crazy idea right
123 2013-06-04 01:29:02 <phantomcircuit> i was running with a cpu profiler and it was just crushingly slow
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127 2013-06-04 01:31:01 * nsh has a crazy ambitious dream of unspaghettiing the satoshi client into logical division of functions and working out the algorithmics of each
128 2013-06-04 01:31:27 <nsh> i'm still at the "find the font of eternal free time" stage of proceedings though
129 2013-06-04 01:31:40 mollison has joined
130 2013-06-04 01:32:03 <nsh> also the "kidnap knuth and chain him to gdb" part might incur some legal/logistic problems
131 2013-06-04 01:32:48 <phantomcircuit> lol
132 2013-06-04 01:33:38 <phantomcircuit> nsh, the primary issue is that if you try to separate the wallet from the blockchain handling there needs to be an events system so that the wallet is notified of changes to the blockchain and can process them
133 2013-06-04 01:33:50 <phantomcircuit> the hard part is that events can never be lost ever for any reason
134 2013-06-04 01:33:55 agnostic98 has joined
135 2013-06-04 01:34:01 <nsh> right
136 2013-06-04 01:37:30 <nsh> i have a vague feeling that if you did away with the threading and built around a single eventing queue something semilogical might coalesce.
137 2013-06-04 01:37:51 <nsh> but that is not particularly grounded in anything resembling reality
138 2013-06-04 01:39:26 <phantomcircuit> nsh, well maybe
139 2013-06-04 01:39:31 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
140 2013-06-04 01:39:50 <phantomcircuit> nsh, a number of things in bitcoin logically arrange themselves as pipelines actually
141 2013-06-04 01:40:13 <nsh> mmm, right
142 2013-06-04 01:40:29 <phantomcircuit> network -> blockchain -> wallet
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144 2013-06-04 01:40:54 <phantomcircuit> part of the problem is that a lot of the wallet stuff doesn't cope with weirdness
145 2013-06-04 01:41:11 <phantomcircuit> im not sure if it will detect double spent transactions which are being sent out yet
146 2013-06-04 01:41:28 <phantomcircuit> but it just doesnt' handle edge cases very well
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148 2013-06-04 01:41:50 * nsh nods
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151 2013-06-04 01:42:23 <nsh> it's maybe possible to boil down the integrity to a minimal covering set of constraints and engineer that into logic
152 2013-06-04 01:42:55 <phantomcircuit> nsh, well part of the problem is there are edge case constraints all over the place that nobody has found yet
153 2013-06-04 01:43:13 <phantomcircuit> there is almost certainly bizarre edge cases in the openssl serialize/deserialize stuff
154 2013-06-04 01:43:14 <nsh> (i've no experience at all with anything nearing this level of complexity, so i'm going on very abstract intuition)
155 2013-06-04 01:43:19 * nsh nods
156 2013-06-04 01:43:34 <phantomcircuit> theoretically a full and complete specification could be written
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158 2013-06-04 01:43:43 <phantomcircuit> which could then be implemented with lots of test cases
159 2013-06-04 01:43:51 <nsh> in theory, theory is the same as a practice :)
160 2013-06-04 01:43:53 <phantomcircuit> in practice though that would be a *massive* amount of work
161 2013-06-04 01:44:07 <phantomcircuit> and would probably still miss something
162 2013-06-04 01:44:19 <phantomcircuit> that being said
163 2013-06-04 01:44:33 <phantomcircuit> it doesn't really matter as long as miners continue to use the reference client
164 2013-06-04 01:45:00 <phantomcircuit> since clients which have weird edge cases wrong will more than likely end up rejecting valid blocks instead of the other way around
165 2013-06-04 01:45:05 <nsh> right, there's a certain redundancy in consensus itself
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167 2013-06-04 01:45:26 <phantomcircuit> so the worst thing that happens is you stop getting new blocks
168 2013-06-04 01:45:31 <phantomcircuit> unless the miners are screwed up
169 2013-06-04 01:45:46 <phantomcircuit> in which case you get a hardfork like the 0.8.x issue with bdb
170 2013-06-04 01:45:47 <nsh> and miners have an incentive towards conservativism
171 2013-06-04 01:46:05 <phantomcircuit> right the biggest losers in that was the miners
172 2013-06-04 01:46:12 * nsh nods
173 2013-06-04 01:46:15 <phantomcircuit> i suspect going forward they'll be more careful
174 2013-06-04 01:46:23 <nsh> once bitten...
175 2013-06-04 01:46:23 toffoo_ has joined
176 2013-06-04 01:46:49 <nsh> still comical that the fork has yet to be replicated
177 2013-06-04 01:46:59 <nsh> *forking conditions
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190 2013-06-04 02:02:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
191 2013-06-04 02:02:12 JohnGalt has joined
192 2013-06-04 02:02:13 <phantomcircuit> 27.87% bitcoind libcrypto.so.1.0.0 [.] bn_mul_mont
193 2013-06-04 02:02:25 JohnGalt is now known as Dr-G2
194 2013-06-04 02:02:32 <phantomcircuit> that really does explain a lot
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197 2013-06-04 02:07:01 <phantomcircuit> crap
198 2013-06-04 02:07:03 <nsh> that's a diffie-hellman function, isn't it, phantomcircuit?
199 2013-06-04 02:07:10 <phantomcircuit> accidentally generated huge testnet wallet
200 2013-06-04 02:07:11 <nsh> ;;google montgomerry multiplication
201 2013-06-04 02:07:12 <gribble> Montgomery reduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_reduction>; Known-Plaintext-Only Attack on RSA-CRT with Montgomery ...: <http://www.iacr.org/workshops/ches/ches2009/presentations/04_Session_3/CHES2009_hlavac.pdf>; Montgomery Multiplication - Hacker's Delight: <http://www.hackersdelight.org/MontgomeryMultiplication.pdf>
202 2013-06-04 02:07:16 <phantomcircuit> without my patches applied
203 2013-06-04 02:07:31 * phantomcircuit waits for wallet to load
204 2013-06-04 02:08:38 * nsh wonders if there's good literature on the poor performance cases of mul_mont
205 2013-06-04 02:11:46 * nsh reads: http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?s=1620a505667db1bfa8608a410b2969c6&t=16893
206 2013-06-04 02:13:09 * warren fighting with i586-mingw32msvc-cc
207 2013-06-04 02:13:10 <nsh> too late in the evening for the level of wikipedia endurance swimming this is going to take to digest
208 2013-06-04 02:13:20 <phantomcircuit> nsh, it's just really slow
209 2013-06-04 02:13:28 <phantomcircuit> it's not particularly poor performance
210 2013-06-04 02:13:32 <phantomcircuit> it's an expensive operation
211 2013-06-04 02:13:46 <nsh> ok
212 2013-06-04 02:13:55 <warren> anyone here helped to get the mingw32 crosscompiler stuff for gitian working?
213 2013-06-04 02:14:30 <phantomcircuit> also it appears that free/malloc are the most expensive things in bitcoin-qt outside of the bignum multiply stuff
214 2013-06-04 02:14:41 <phantomcircuit> so a giant ridiculous wallet shouldn't be much of an issue actually
215 2013-06-04 02:14:51 <phantomcircuit> it's just loading the wallet that's slow
216 2013-06-04 02:14:52 funky3 has joined
217 2013-06-04 02:14:57 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ^
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219 2013-06-04 02:16:52 <nsh> could be memory fragmentation problems too
220 2013-06-04 02:17:14 <nsh> which would degrade performance over time
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227 2013-06-04 02:21:25 <warren> Haha.... libfaketime is confusing make. it's stuck in a loop building it over and over again.
228 2013-06-04 02:22:06 <Diablo-D3> lol
229 2013-06-04 02:23:00 <warren> Close to getting secp256k1 win32 building in gitian, but it won't be deterministic until I figure out how to ignore the timestamps.
230 2013-06-04 02:26:46 treaki__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
231 2013-06-04 02:27:33 <nsh> timestamps from what, warren?
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234 2013-06-04 02:30:01 <warren> nsh: make uses timestamps for dependency tracking
235 2013-06-04 02:30:19 <warren> nsh: gitian uses libfaketime to force the time to never change (I'm guessing), so every build is identical
236 2013-06-04 02:30:28 <nsh> right
237 2013-06-04 02:30:44 <nsh> devrandom can possibly help
238 2013-06-04 02:31:00 <warren> in the cash of building gmp with ./configure --host=i586-mingw32-omgwtfbbq make gets stuck in a loop.
239 2013-06-04 02:31:08 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
240 2013-06-04 02:31:15 <warren> cas*
241 2013-06-04 02:31:17 <warren> case*
242 2013-06-04 02:31:28 <nsh> hmm
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244 2013-06-04 02:33:10 <nsh> warren, have you tried export LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/faketime/libfaketime.so.1
245 2013-06-04 02:33:15 <nsh> *so have you ... ?
246 2013-06-04 02:33:20 <warren> nsh: yes, that's what causes the failure
247 2013-06-04 02:33:23 <nsh> oh
248 2013-06-04 02:33:32 <warren> it builds fine if I remove LD_PRELOAD
249 2013-06-04 02:33:42 <nsh> something else must depend on timestamps somewhere then, i guess
250 2013-06-04 02:33:49 <warren> that's to be expected for make
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253 2013-06-04 02:34:42 <devrandom> hmm...
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255 2013-06-04 02:34:53 <devrandom> never seen that behavior
256 2013-06-04 02:35:25 <devrandom> is the configure getting stuck, or the make?
257 2013-06-04 02:36:33 <devrandom> if all else fails, you might have to track down where the timestamps are coming from and `sed` files or faketime specific build steps
258 2013-06-04 02:36:39 <devrandom> that's going to be somewhat of a pain
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261 2013-06-04 02:37:46 <warren> devrandom: make somehow goes back to running configure in a loop
262 2013-06-04 02:38:07 <warren> devrandom: I'll make it build without libfaketime then give you the .yml file?
263 2013-06-04 02:38:32 <ProfMac> what is "merged mining?"
264 2013-06-04 02:38:58 wallet431 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
265 2013-06-04 02:40:08 <nsh> ProfMac, mining for more than one coin with the same work
266 2013-06-04 02:40:16 <nsh> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/273/how-does-merged-mining-work
267 2013-06-04 02:40:53 sensorii has joined
268 2013-06-04 02:41:07 treaki__ has joined
269 2013-06-04 02:41:08 <nsh> (thus contributing to hash power in more than one network at once. ie, having your lunch and then puking it out onto a canvas to sell as fake jackson pollock paintings)
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271 2013-06-04 02:42:28 <warren> make[1]: configure: Timestamp out of range; substituting 2514-05-30 01:53:03.999999999
272 2013-06-04 02:42:28 <warren> /bin/bash ./config.status
273 2013-06-04 02:42:53 RBecker is now known as rbecker
274 2013-06-04 02:42:54 <warren> devrandom: Makefile decides something is wrong then runs ./config.status, then tries to build again, decides something is wrong and runs ./config.status
275 2013-06-04 02:43:07 <ProfMac> is the consensus here that merged mining is / is not healthy ? I'm in a discussion regarding Bytecoin and need to learn fast. I'm reading your link, nsh.
276 2013-06-04 02:43:31 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: not at all. merged mining is essential for any legit altcoin
277 2013-06-04 02:43:36 <Luke-Jr> (although a risk for scams)
278 2013-06-04 02:43:40 <warren> ProfMac: merged mining is good for Bitcoin as it does not take miners away from the main network.
279 2013-06-04 02:43:54 <nsh> ^ double agree
280 2013-06-04 02:43:57 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: what is "Bytecoin"?
281 2013-06-04 02:44:10 <duSn> 8 bitcoins ..
282 2013-06-04 02:44:10 <warren> Luke-Jr: a copy of 0.8.1 wiht literally no changes
283 2013-06-04 02:44:30 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: note that Namecoin's merged mining system has a number of flaws, so you'd want to create a new system based on p2pool's merged mining
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285 2013-06-04 02:44:40 <warren> ProfMac: scamcoins don't generalliy want merged mining because it means the bitcoin mining pools dominate in acquiring new coins in their alt, so they can't successfully conduct their scam.
286 2013-06-04 02:44:40 <Luke-Jr> warren: â¦
287 2013-06-04 02:45:01 <warren> Luke-Jr: p2pool's merged mining has serious problems
288 2013-06-04 02:45:07 <Luke-Jr> warren: hence based on
289 2013-06-04 02:45:13 <warren> ok
290 2013-06-04 02:45:15 <Luke-Jr> warren: what problems did you have in mind, though?
291 2013-06-04 02:45:59 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
292 2013-06-04 02:46:25 <warren> Luke-Jr: apparently if the aux client fails to respond fast enough it screws up the main miner
293 2013-06-04 02:46:36 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
294 2013-06-04 02:46:44 <warren> it should just timeout and forget about the aux for that work if it isn't ready
295 2013-06-04 02:47:28 <Luke-Jr> oh, just an implementation issue
296 2013-06-04 02:47:40 <Luke-Jr> obviously you can't use p2pool's implementation anyway sicne it's Python
297 2013-06-04 02:47:58 <Luke-Jr> warren: and that's a problem unrelated to p2pool's merged mining
298 2013-06-04 02:48:05 <Luke-Jr> that's namecoin-merged-mining-with-p2pool
299 2013-06-04 02:48:07 <warren> ProfMac: OTOH, the scamcoins struggle to maintain constant-enough hashrate, so their networks are frequently strip mined or stagnating, too fast confirmations or too slow. And that is without 51% attacks, which happens often too. Merged mining reduces the worry of 51% attacks for the altcoin, and allows their confirmation times to be relatively stable.
300 2013-06-04 02:48:18 <warren> Luke-Jr: agreed
301 2013-06-04 02:48:24 <ProfMac> I am still not sure if Bytecoin is a grand April fools joke, or a solution to some problems letting bitcoin grow larger, i.e., it could serve niche markets, such as "Dallas" or "Coffee Importers" In fact, I sometimes think it may be both, a solution presented as a joke.
302 2013-06-04 02:48:39 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: from warren's description, it sounds like a scamcoin
303 2013-06-04 02:48:46 <ProfMac> Search for "Maria 2.0" on bitcointalk to see the intro and discussion.
304 2013-06-04 02:48:49 <warren> Luke-Jr: indeed.
305 2013-06-04 02:49:17 <Luke-Jr> any new legit altcoin would best have a minimum difficulty of like 10mil and merged mining
306 2013-06-04 02:49:20 brwyatt_ is now known as brwyatt
307 2013-06-04 02:49:36 <warren> Luke-Jr: a few days after Bytecoin launched someone offered to buy Bytecoins for a large number of BTC. Then there was an auction for real silver for Bytecoins. It was pumped up for a short while.
308 2013-06-04 02:49:40 <Luke-Jr> and really, the decision to make a new altcoin really doesn't make sense until it's been discussed as an extension to Bitcoin
309 2013-06-04 02:50:14 hnz has joined
310 2013-06-04 02:50:17 seeingidog__ has joined
311 2013-06-04 02:52:35 <warren> ProfMac: there is no point to Bytecoin, given that it has nothing different. Just let it die.
312 2013-06-04 02:53:41 <nsh> just think of it as makebelievereal testnet
313 2013-06-04 02:54:15 <ProfMac> So the summary suitable for pointy-hair is: merged mining is legit, but buggy; legitimate alt coins should use it; scam coins will avoid it; alt-coin as extensions to bitcoin make some sense.
314 2013-06-04 02:54:49 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
315 2013-06-04 02:54:52 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: altcoins separate from Bitcoin can make sense in some cases too (see Freicoin)
316 2013-06-04 02:55:08 <warren> ProfMac: merged mining is reasonable. It can be made reliable in-so-far-as the aux chain should take a back seat, be ready to give work immediately without delay and just fail if it isn't ready.
317 2013-06-04 02:55:43 Subo1978 has joined
318 2013-06-04 02:55:57 <Luke-Jr> warren: the problem with namecoin-merged-mining is the chain id algorithm and its inability to adapt to bitcoin-merged-mining or use midstates
319 2013-06-04 02:56:03 <warren> Perhaps it should have cached work that is constantly regenerated, giving work immediately is more important for the aux chain than having fresh work.
320 2013-06-04 02:56:10 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
321 2013-06-04 02:56:17 patcon has joined
322 2013-06-04 02:56:18 <ProfMac> warren: what Bytecoin offers is a second block-chain that can be carried by a niche market, but the exchange rate can be tied to bitcoin by difficulty ratios. It is also a possible study in an alt-coin with a longer prefix and smaller circulation that can allow micro-transactions --- again, in the context of a small market.
323 2013-06-04 02:56:52 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: would you like to buy some high quality snake oil?
324 2013-06-04 02:57:00 <warren> ProfMac: for what niche market? anybody can create another chain. If you want another chain for micro-transactions, why not do it officially?
325 2013-06-04 02:57:12 <warren> ProfMac: it was so obviously created as a scam
326 2013-06-04 02:58:08 <warren> ProfMac: and like any scam, it dies. Typical chart of a scamcoin. http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=alltime&resolution=day&pair=ftc-btc&market=btc-e Early miners extracted thousands of BTC from morons buying into it. This one had "good PR" and "immediate listing on a few exchanges".
327 2013-06-04 02:58:56 <warren> ProfMac: they were stuck at 1+ hour confirm average times for weeks after. They updated the client with more frequent diff adjustments, and they're still stuck at 40 minutes now.
328 2013-06-04 02:58:56 fiesh has joined
329 2013-06-04 02:59:11 <warren> ProfMac: ("normal" is supposed to be 2.5 minutes)
330 2013-06-04 02:59:11 Subo1978_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
331 2013-06-04 02:59:30 malaimo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
332 2013-06-04 02:59:50 <doublec> bytecoin was the coin where the creator signed a message announcing it uses an address generated from an early block iirc
333 2013-06-04 02:59:55 <doublec> block 9,455
334 2013-06-04 02:59:56 <ProfMac> I fear, all academics can be seduced by intense curiosity. Who is this maria that was around from the beginning of bitcoin but somehow got banned? Why did she sell $800,000 of bitcoins, just days before the crash from 260? Did she know something? I have not put money into it, but I am fascinated by any number of back-stories that I have made up in my head.
335 2013-06-04 03:00:06 <doublec> s/uses/using/
336 2013-06-04 03:00:14 mapppum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
337 2013-06-04 03:00:16 <warren> what does "banned" even mean?
338 2013-06-04 03:00:36 <ProfMac> Actually, they are stuck at 1 block per day right now...
339 2013-06-04 03:00:38 <warren> ProfMac: who cares? there are hundreds of scam coins, none of their stories matter.
340 2013-06-04 03:00:39 mapppum has joined
341 2013-06-04 03:00:55 <phantomcircuit> who wants to send me some testnet coins
342 2013-06-04 03:00:59 <doublec> signed message here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=164569.msg1719379#msg1719379
343 2013-06-04 03:01:11 <warren> phantomcircuit: http://testnet.mojocoin.com/
344 2013-06-04 03:01:49 CodeShark has joined
345 2013-06-04 03:02:18 <phantomcircuit> neat
346 2013-06-04 03:02:53 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, bfgmienr should work on testnet right
347 2013-06-04 03:02:58 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: yeah
348 2013-06-04 03:03:02 <warren> I'm seriously going to release genaltcoin sometime this summer. You run it with a few --parameters and it spits out a git tree and gitian builds of <whatevercoin>, a home page, and posts to bitcointalk alt disaster forum.
349 2013-06-04 03:03:34 <Luke-Jr> warren: I think you underestimate the complexity of doing gitian on Windows
350 2013-06-04 03:03:50 malaimo has joined
351 2013-06-04 03:03:59 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, how did you get the submodule stuff to work
352 2013-06-04 03:04:10 <phantomcircuit> nvm
353 2013-06-04 03:04:45 <warren> Luke-Jr: right ... I suppose I can't make genaltcoin for Windows, so there will only be 50 new altcoins per day instead of 200/day. Still bad enough that people will begin to just ignore all the alts.
354 2013-06-04 03:04:54 wamatt_ has joined
355 2013-06-04 03:05:10 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, utlist.h?
356 2013-06-04 03:05:14 * nsh is reminded of WP:POINT
357 2013-06-04 03:05:17 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: by using it? :p
358 2013-06-04 03:05:26 wamatt_ has quit (Client Quit)
359 2013-06-04 03:05:31 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
360 2013-06-04 03:05:39 <ProfMac> Well, I'm not at all interested in the new coin, prefix "S" for sexcoin. But I am so intrigued by the person who claims to be from the beginning, claims to sell 100,000 btc for $8 each days before the market falls, claims to be trading with Satoshi in the beginning. Even if it is intended to be a scam, it is so gloriously done it's worth mining a few blocks.
361 2013-06-04 03:06:02 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, your make file isn't checking for utlist.h
362 2013-06-04 03:06:08 <phantomcircuit> i mean configure script
363 2013-06-04 03:06:46 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: indeed, I didn't push that change yet
364 2013-06-04 03:06:53 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it is, however, documented in the README :P
365 2013-06-04 03:07:00 wamatt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
366 2013-06-04 03:07:34 wiretapped has joined
367 2013-06-04 03:07:35 * Luke-Jr goes ahead and pushes
368 2013-06-04 03:07:37 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, psh readmes
369 2013-06-04 03:08:00 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: the package name is uthash-dev
370 2013-06-04 03:08:07 <phantomcircuit> gentoo
371 2013-06-04 03:08:16 <Luke-Jr> uthash then
372 2013-06-04 03:08:16 <phantomcircuit> emerge uthash easy enough
373 2013-06-04 03:08:56 <warren> ProfMac: get the scamcoin to use secp256k1 by default, so someone at least tests it
374 2013-06-04 03:09:09 <Luke-Jr> haha
375 2013-06-04 03:09:37 froopy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
376 2013-06-04 03:11:03 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate
377 2013-06-04 03:11:04 <gribble> (genrate <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected bitcoin generation rate using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
378 2013-06-04 03:12:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, 2013-06-04 02:47:35 ThreadRPCServer incorrect password attempt from 127.0.0.1
379 2013-06-04 03:12:36 <phantomcircuit> but it appears to be mining
380 2013-06-04 03:12:40 <phantomcircuit> <-- confused
381 2013-06-04 03:12:41 <Luke-Jr> O.o
382 2013-06-04 03:13:44 <warren> Hmm, maybe I'll provide patches for the scamcoins to use secp256k1
383 2013-06-04 03:13:51 <warren> I mean, why not?
384 2013-06-04 03:14:06 <phantomcircuit> it's definitely calling getwork right
385 2013-06-04 03:14:39 <phantomcircuit> if only bitcoin rpc said what call it was that had the wrong password
386 2013-06-04 03:14:39 <phantomcircuit> >.>
387 2013-06-04 03:14:59 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, ./bfgminer --disable-gpu --algo fastauto --user u --pass p --url http://127.0.0.1:18332/
388 2013-06-04 03:15:02 <phantomcircuit> does that look right
389 2013-06-04 03:15:28 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: except you're missing --coinbase-addr 1whatever
390 2013-06-04 03:15:48 <Luke-Jr> not that it probably matters for CPU
391 2013-06-04 03:16:23 <phantomcircuit> CPU 0: | 1.8/ 1.9/ 0.0Mh/s | A:0 R:0+0(none) HW:0
392 2013-06-04 03:16:28 <phantomcircuit> wat?
393 2013-06-04 03:16:44 <phantomcircuit> 1 minute/5/15?
394 2013-06-04 03:16:53 <Luke-Jr> README
395 2013-06-04 03:17:06 <phantomcircuit> [2013-06-03 19:52:50] HTTP request failed: The requested URL returned error: 401
396 2013-06-04 03:19:36 HaltingState has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
397 2013-06-04 03:20:59 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate
398 2013-06-04 03:20:59 <gribble> (genrate <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected bitcoin generation rate using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
399 2013-06-04 03:21:04 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate 8 430
400 2013-06-04 03:21:11 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate 8 403
401 2013-06-04 03:22:06 <gribble> Error: Failed to retrieve current block bounty. Try again later.
402 2013-06-04 03:22:46 <phantomcircuit> Average generation time for a block (solo)
403 2013-06-04 03:22:47 <phantomcircuit> crap
404 2013-06-04 03:23:07 <gribble> Error: Failed to retrieve current block bounty. Try again later.
405 2013-06-04 03:23:24 froopy has joined
406 2013-06-04 03:23:48 <phantomcircuit> wait isn't it halved on testnet?
407 2013-06-04 03:25:53 <gmaxwell> where does that weird idea keep coming from?
408 2013-06-04 03:26:21 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it's on the wiki
409 2013-06-04 03:26:31 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet
410 2013-06-04 03:26:39 <phantomcircuit> "Minimum difficulty of 1.0 on testnet is equal to difficulty of 0.5 on mainnet."
411 2013-06-04 03:27:32 JZavala has joined
412 2013-06-04 03:28:27 <phantomcircuit> nanotube, damn it
413 2013-06-04 03:28:33 <phantomcircuit> or
414 2013-06-04 03:28:40 <phantomcircuit> yeah
415 2013-06-04 03:28:40 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Testnet&diff=2244&oldid=2212
416 2013-06-04 03:28:56 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the 20 minute reset to 1 is right though?
417 2013-06-04 03:29:03 <gmaxwell> sure.
418 2013-06-04 03:29:29 <phantomcircuit> cause testnet is currently at 403
419 2013-06-04 03:29:35 <phantomcircuit> and i'd kind of like to have a block
420 2013-06-04 03:30:04 <phantomcircuit> 403 being like
421 2013-06-04 03:30:07 <phantomcircuit> 3 GHs
422 2013-06-04 03:30:09 <phantomcircuit> :|
423 2013-06-04 03:30:16 <phantomcircuit> why you doin dat people
424 2013-06-04 03:31:38 wizkid057 has joined
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426 2013-06-04 03:33:08 HaltingState has joined
427 2013-06-04 03:33:26 roconnor has joined
428 2013-06-04 03:35:30 <warren> still fighting gitian win32. Does gcc -l<name> always mean dynamic link, or it can work with .a static link?
429 2013-06-04 03:35:52 px has joined
430 2013-06-04 03:36:10 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
431 2013-06-04 03:36:32 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
432 2013-06-04 03:37:13 Mobius_ has joined
433 2013-06-04 03:37:35 Mobius_ is now known as MobiusL
434 2013-06-04 03:38:23 <warren> oh, I suppose you want to just list the /path/to/whatever.a directly
435 2013-06-04 03:38:57 <phantomcircuit> ok now that i have testnet coins
436 2013-06-04 03:39:01 <phantomcircuit> time to perf test this sucker
437 2013-06-04 03:41:59 super3 has joined
438 2013-06-04 03:42:36 <super3> where can i get the bitcooin 0.8.2 source? or how can i pull the github 0.8.1 branch?
439 2013-06-04 03:46:10 <ProfMac> there is a testnet faucet. Will give up to 45 tBTC at a request. Google for it.
440 2013-06-04 03:46:44 wamatt has joined
441 2013-06-04 03:48:50 metabyte has quit ()
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443 2013-06-04 03:55:25 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
444 2013-06-04 03:56:35 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
445 2013-06-04 03:57:40 <warren> I see. -L and -I
446 2013-06-04 04:00:13 resinate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
447 2013-06-04 04:00:32 digitalmagus has joined
448 2013-06-04 04:00:32 digitalmagus has quit (Changing host)
449 2013-06-04 04:00:32 digitalmagus has joined
450 2013-06-04 04:01:05 <phantomcircuit> ok then
451 2013-06-04 04:02:20 agnostic98 has joined
452 2013-06-04 04:02:41 <phantomcircuit> 7.40% bitcoind bitcoind [.] std::_Rb_tree<CKeyID, std::pair<CKeyID const, CKey>, std::_Select1st<std::pair<CKeyID const, CKey> >, std::less<CKeyID>, std::allocator<std::pair<CKeyID const, CKey> > >::find(CKeyID const&) const
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455 2013-06-04 04:09:09 tyn has joined
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457 2013-06-04 04:09:22 TheSeven has joined
458 2013-06-04 04:09:24 resinate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
459 2013-06-04 04:10:46 <phantomcircuit> that is impressive given that that should be O(log n)
460 2013-06-04 04:11:01 <nsh> phantomcircuit, what's going on in that code?
461 2013-06-04 04:11:11 <phantomcircuit> wallet with a million keys
462 2013-06-04 04:11:17 <phantomcircuit> generating transactions
463 2013-06-04 04:11:22 <nsh> ok
464 2013-06-04 04:11:33 <phantomcircuit> im thinking thats typedef std::map<CKeyID, CKey> KeyMap;
465 2013-06-04 04:11:47 <phantomcircuit> no wait
466 2013-06-04 04:11:48 <phantomcircuit> it's CryptedKeyMap
467 2013-06-04 04:12:08 <phantomcircuit> no wait it is? er
468 2013-06-04 04:12:26 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's KeyMap
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470 2013-06-04 04:13:53 TwilightSparklee has quit (Client Quit)
471 2013-06-04 04:14:41 RainbowDashh has joined
472 2013-06-04 04:15:56 Maxvalor has quit ()
473 2013-06-04 04:16:36 <phantomcircuit> GetKeys is O(n) (obviously
474 2013-06-04 04:17:57 ThomasV has joined
475 2013-06-04 04:18:51 <phantomcircuit> fortunately that doesn't seem to be used by anything
476 2013-06-04 04:19:05 * nsh nods
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486 2013-06-04 04:31:57 <warren> sipa: putting a git tree in inputs/bitcoin doesn't work, it is overridden by whatever is at the remotes: URL in the .yml
487 2013-06-04 04:32:30 beethoven2 has joined
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489 2013-06-04 04:32:49 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
490 2013-06-04 04:32:49 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
491 2013-06-04 04:34:33 linagee_ is now known as linagee
492 2013-06-04 04:34:35 <warren> sipa: sorry, I was wrong.
493 2013-06-04 04:34:44 mapppum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
494 2013-06-04 04:35:00 mappum has joined
495 2013-06-04 04:35:31 fanquake has joined
496 2013-06-04 04:36:10 <saivann> Seeking for ACK for https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/196 (Removing focus on free transactions from bitcoin.org, 3 lines changed)
497 2013-06-04 04:38:37 <SomeoneWeird> what
498 2013-06-04 04:38:40 <SomeoneWeird> tf
499 2013-06-04 04:40:30 <warren> saivann: I agree with the message shift, although would it be too technical to mention that voluntarily higher fees ensure faster confirmations?
500 2013-06-04 04:41:03 <saivann> warren : "It is however recommended to pay a tiny voluntary fee to increase your transaction priority and to remunerate the people who operate the Bitcoin network"
501 2013-06-04 04:41:04 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
502 2013-06-04 04:41:05 <warren> fees are very low, but there are reasons for volunteer to pay higher fees because it is a competitive market
503 2013-06-04 04:41:11 <warren> oh
504 2013-06-04 04:41:25 <saivann> "In most cases, fees are not strictly required but they are recommended in order to increase a transaction's priority"
505 2013-06-04 04:41:43 <warren> saivann: "transaction priority" is meaningful to a new user?
506 2013-06-04 04:42:04 <saivann> warren : Maybe not, any better idea?
507 2013-06-04 04:42:22 <phantomcircuit> lol
508 2013-06-04 04:42:24 <saivann> The second one is for businesses, the first one is for individuals
509 2013-06-04 04:42:32 <phantomcircuit> SendMoneyToDestination is getting stuck on GetBalance
510 2013-06-04 04:43:17 <phantomcircuit> which is of course O(n)
511 2013-06-04 04:44:31 bolapara has joined
512 2013-06-04 04:44:45 <saivann> warren : When I put myself in the skin of a new user, transaction and priority are both common words. I think I would get the message (that the transaction would be processed faster)
513 2013-06-04 04:44:56 <phantomcircuit> actually it's worse than O(n)
514 2013-06-04 04:44:57 <saivann> But that's just me
515 2013-06-04 04:46:05 <warren> saivann: perhaps something like ... voluntarily paying higher transaction fees allows generally allows for faster confirmation of your transaction
516 2013-06-04 04:46:13 <warren> oops
517 2013-06-04 04:46:15 <warren> you get the idea
518 2013-06-04 04:48:24 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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520 2013-06-04 04:49:05 jaake has quit (Quit: ZzZzZz)
521 2013-06-04 04:49:20 starsoccer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
522 2013-06-04 04:49:54 <phantomcircuit> GetBalance ends up calling GetAvailableCredit on every transaction in the wallet, which in turns calls IsMine() on every txout, it seems like there should be a way to cache the value of IsMine for a specific wallet.. except what happens if a private key is removed
523 2013-06-04 04:50:03 johnsoft has joined
524 2013-06-04 04:50:22 <saivann> warren : Yep, I would still prefer to use "small transaction fee" there because even a high transaction fee on Bitcoin is a tiny fraction of todays banking fees.
525 2013-06-04 04:50:39 <saivann> But using "faster confirmation" sounds good.
526 2013-06-04 04:51:18 seeingidog__ has joined
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531 2013-06-04 04:54:37 agnostic98 has joined
532 2013-06-04 04:54:59 <phantomcircuit> geez
533 2013-06-04 04:55:10 rcorreia has joined
534 2013-06-04 04:55:27 <phantomcircuit> i think GetBalance is spending most of it's find in CKeyStore::HaveKey
535 2013-06-04 04:55:36 <phantomcircuit> which should be O(log n)
536 2013-06-04 04:55:53 clarkm has joined
537 2013-06-04 04:56:01 <phantomcircuit> so even my absurd 1 million key wallet shouldn't take more than 6 ops
538 2013-06-04 04:56:01 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
539 2013-06-04 04:57:13 <phantomcircuit> actually
540 2013-06-04 04:57:22 <phantomcircuit> im not sure GetBalance is even necessary
541 2013-06-04 04:58:05 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's not
542 2013-06-04 04:58:07 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
543 2013-06-04 04:58:09 * nsh muses on phantomcircuit's writing find instead of time
544 2013-06-04 04:58:26 <phantomcircuit> nsh, lol
545 2013-06-04 04:58:28 <phantomcircuit> i meant to say
546 2013-06-04 04:58:50 <phantomcircuit> spending most of it's fime in CKeyStore::HaveKey mapKeys.count (which is really just find)
547 2013-06-04 04:59:05 <nsh> si, claro :)
548 2013-06-04 05:00:09 <phantomcircuit> yeah this is 100% stuck on GetBalance
549 2013-06-04 05:00:17 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, lol didn't notice that... easy enough to fix though
550 2013-06-04 05:00:39 <phantomcircuit> now if i can just get git rebase to work...
551 2013-06-04 05:01:17 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, also is there any particular reason why GetBalance is called in SendMoneyToDestination ?
552 2013-06-04 05:01:42 <phantomcircuit> it seems redundant
553 2013-06-04 05:01:52 <nsh> clarkm, do you basically work for the CIA?
554 2013-06-04 05:02:29 <warren> saivann: voluntarily paying "more"?
555 2013-06-04 05:03:34 B0g4r7 has joined
556 2013-06-04 05:03:42 * nsh bookmarks https://github.com/clarkminor?tab=activity under "technologies the USG finds potentially concerning" lol
557 2013-06-04 05:03:46 <phantomcircuit> heh AvailableCoins is also O(n)
558 2013-06-04 05:03:49 <owowo> nsh: there is no need to know for you :P
559 2013-06-04 05:03:52 * nsh smiles
560 2013-06-04 05:04:18 <devrandom> did you set a time for libfaketime?
561 2013-06-04 05:04:34 <nsh> devrandom, i wondered this too
562 2013-06-04 05:07:13 starsoccer has joined
563 2013-06-04 05:09:36 <devrandom> nsh - export FAKETIME="2002-12-24 20:30:00"
564 2013-06-04 05:09:42 <devrandom> or similar
565 2013-06-04 05:09:57 <saivann> warren : After re-reading the context, I think "higher transaction fee" makes sense. I've updated the pull request, what do you think of it now?
566 2013-06-04 05:12:58 grau has joined
567 2013-06-04 05:13:34 idstam has joined
568 2013-06-04 05:17:22 <Cory> How are transaction IDs created?
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570 2013-06-04 05:18:55 d34th has quit (Quit: Deleted System32)
571 2013-06-04 05:18:55 arij has quit (Quit: Accidentally the whole network)
572 2013-06-04 05:19:22 <phantomcircuit> Cory, Hash() of the transaction
573 2013-06-04 05:19:31 <phantomcircuit> which is sha256(sha256(())
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585 2013-06-04 05:40:54 <Cory> What exactly makes up the transaction? Something literally like this example? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transactions#Data
586 2013-06-04 05:43:25 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
587 2013-06-04 05:43:53 mrkent has joined
588 2013-06-04 05:46:37 <nsh> Cory, this shows an example of a raw transaction: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt
589 2013-06-04 05:51:19 <Cory> Thanks!
590 2013-06-04 05:51:31 <nsh> also: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Standard_Transaction_to_Bitcoin_address
591 2013-06-04 05:51:46 seeingidog__ has joined
592 2013-06-04 05:52:54 <phantomcircuit> huh
593 2013-06-04 05:53:11 <phantomcircuit> CWalletTx::IsConfirmed is slow
594 2013-06-04 05:53:18 <phantomcircuit> seems like that should be fast
595 2013-06-04 05:54:49 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
596 2013-06-04 05:55:09 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
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604 2013-06-04 06:01:50 <clarkm> nsh: I should hide that activity :)
605 2013-06-04 06:01:50 <nsh> phantomcircuit, it pushes back to the vins its looping over for each element in vWorkQueue
606 2013-06-04 06:01:56 <nsh> clarkm, maybe :)
607 2013-06-04 06:02:24 <nsh> phantomcircuit, i have no idea what any of that means, but maybe that could cause it to go over things more than is necessary
608 2013-06-04 06:02:54 <phantomcircuit> nsh, yeah im upto about the 13 millionth iteration
609 2013-06-04 06:03:02 <phantomcircuit> in a single call
610 2013-06-04 06:03:21 <nsh> eek
611 2013-06-04 06:04:30 oleganza has joined
612 2013-06-04 06:06:21 <phantomcircuit> hmm
613 2013-06-04 06:06:42 Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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615 2013-06-04 06:06:52 luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr
616 2013-06-04 06:07:13 <phantomcircuit> this is only a problem where there are a good number of unconfirmed transactions that belong to the wallet
617 2013-06-04 06:10:27 peper has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
618 2013-06-04 06:11:06 ShapeShifter499 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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623 2013-06-04 06:17:37 <phantomcircuit> nsh, yeah im thinking this could be *significantly* improved
624 2013-06-04 06:17:37 <phantomcircuit> lol
625 2013-06-04 06:17:49 <phantomcircuit> // If no confirmations but it's from us, we can still
626 2013-06-04 06:17:49 <phantomcircuit> // consider it confirmed if all dependencies are confirmed
627 2013-06-04 06:18:17 <phantomcircuit> simply returning false in this case would seem to only have an impact on SelectCoints
628 2013-06-04 06:21:24 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
629 2013-06-04 06:25:32 tyn has joined
630 2013-06-04 06:27:01 <phantomcircuit> i can honestly say i dont even understand why this is the way this works
631 2013-06-04 06:27:25 <phantomcircuit> this is code from 2011
632 2013-06-04 06:27:30 <phantomcircuit> so im guessing nobody else does either
633 2013-06-04 06:29:33 <gmaxwell> ...
634 2013-06-04 06:29:40 <gmaxwell> I understand why it works that way. It's obvious enough.
635 2013-06-04 06:30:00 <gmaxwell> hell, the comment you quoted explains exactly why.
636 2013-06-04 06:30:06 <gmaxwell> And sure, it's slow and could be done much faster.
637 2013-06-04 06:30:20 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i have 39 transactions
638 2013-06-04 06:30:30 <phantomcircuit> how is it even possible that this is iterating 14 million times
639 2013-06-04 06:32:44 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: because for each it explores the whole tree IIRC, it's factorial complexity or something moronic like that.
640 2013-06-04 06:32:57 <gmaxwell> (I've commented on this before)
641 2013-06-04 06:33:28 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it should just be doing that until it gets to confirmed transactions though right?
642 2013-06-04 06:33:32 <phantomcircuit> or am i missing something
643 2013-06-04 06:34:03 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: right. If you don't have unconfirmed transactions than I have NFI what its doing, indeed.
644 2013-06-04 06:34:20 <phantomcircuit> well i do have unconfirmed transactions
645 2013-06-04 06:34:50 <phantomcircuit> but it should be going to the inputs which are confirmed
646 2013-06-04 06:35:15 <phantomcircuit> it appears to be walking the entire transaction graph all the way back to the coinbase or something
647 2013-06-04 06:35:36 <phantomcircuit> ima try to rewrite it and see what i come up with...
648 2013-06-04 06:36:34 chorao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
649 2013-06-04 06:36:49 melvster has joined
650 2013-06-04 06:37:40 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: ... don't rewrite it, just understand it. It most certantly does not walk all the way back to the coinbase or anything of the sort.
651 2013-06-04 06:39:49 <phantomcircuit> well first off i can safely move everything in if (mapPrev.empty()) outside the for loop
652 2013-06-04 06:40:18 <phantomcircuit> i assume that is a comical attempt at optimizing
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657 2013-06-04 06:45:28 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, something is definitely broken here
658 2013-06-04 06:47:54 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, is mapPrev supposed to be protecting against checking the same tx twice?
659 2013-06-04 06:52:06 * sipa tests BFL
660 2013-06-04 06:52:16 seeingidog__ has joined
661 2013-06-04 06:55:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa: got a Jalapeno?
662 2013-06-04 06:56:52 <sipa> Luke-Jr: yes
663 2013-06-04 06:57:13 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
664 2013-06-04 06:58:41 lolcookie__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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670 2013-06-04 07:02:56 Silverion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
671 2013-06-04 07:04:11 Silverion has joined
672 2013-06-04 07:05:45 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, so im reading this and thinking is just got really unlucky and one of the 39 transactions in vtxPrev has like
673 2013-06-04 07:05:54 <phantomcircuit> 10 million inputs or something
674 2013-06-04 07:06:01 <phantomcircuit> ie welcome to testnet
675 2013-06-04 07:06:56 <phantomcircuit> 36*
676 2013-06-04 07:08:53 triciam has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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679 2013-06-04 07:13:55 Scrat has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
680 2013-06-04 07:15:44 <da2ce7> Dose anyone know what happend to Stefan Thomas? I haven't seen him for a while.
681 2013-06-04 07:16:35 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yeah as i suspected
682 2013-06-04 07:16:51 <phantomcircuit> this is some how running the same transactions thousands of times
683 2013-06-04 07:18:34 <phantomcircuit> 2013-06-04 06:54:46 172d5f152caae7bbc44789cdfd8654ed3154ea1fbdf45a6aa06b1155e7209457 3284985ll
684 2013-06-04 07:18:41 <phantomcircuit> (this is testnet mind you)
685 2013-06-04 07:19:04 <sipa> da2ce7: he's working for OpenCoin now
686 2013-06-04 07:20:54 PRab has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
687 2013-06-04 07:20:56 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's too bad he seemed like a good person
688 2013-06-04 07:22:14 <sipa> ;;blocks
689 2013-06-04 07:22:14 <gribble> 239627
690 2013-06-04 07:22:35 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, for now im just going to add an std::set so that transactions aren't checked twice
691 2013-06-04 07:22:43 <phantomcircuit> but that seems like quote a hack
692 2013-06-04 07:25:35 PRab has joined
693 2013-06-04 07:26:04 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
694 2013-06-04 07:26:09 Julius129 has joined
695 2013-06-04 07:26:36 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
696 2013-06-04 07:27:15 <Luke-Jr> sipa: probably want to use latest git; 3.0.2 had some issues with HTTP pools
697 2013-06-04 07:27:55 <phantomcircuit> oh my god
698 2013-06-04 07:28:11 <phantomcircuit> lol
699 2013-06-04 07:28:14 <Luke-Jr> ?
700 2013-06-04 07:28:33 <phantomcircuit> i've been screwing around with wallet performance
701 2013-06-04 07:28:40 <phantomcircuit> and i think i just found the proximal cause
702 2013-06-04 07:28:47 <CodeShark> ?
703 2013-06-04 07:28:51 <CodeShark> do go on...
704 2013-06-04 07:28:52 <phantomcircuit> CWalletTx::IsConfirmed
705 2013-06-04 07:29:03 <Luke-Jr> you said that already. go on⦠:p
706 2013-06-04 07:29:09 <phantomcircuit> there's something broken about the breadth first search of the inputs
707 2013-06-04 07:29:27 <phantomcircuit> so i added an std::set to avoid processing the same tx twice
708 2013-06-04 07:29:42 <phantomcircuit> (btw that is 100% not a long term solution)
709 2013-06-04 07:30:02 <phantomcircuit> but getbalance on a wallet with a million keys and a bunch of unconfirmed transactions is now practically instant
710 2013-06-04 07:31:06 <phantomcircuit> yeah
711 2013-06-04 07:31:11 <phantomcircuit> this is *definitely* broken
712 2013-06-04 07:31:47 Thepok has joined
713 2013-06-04 07:31:50 <Julius129> so now i can create 4 trillion addresses
714 2013-06-04 07:31:59 <Julius129> and getbalance all day instead of mining :P
715 2013-06-04 07:32:07 <phantomcircuit> Julius129, no you'd run out of memory
716 2013-06-04 07:33:12 peper has joined
717 2013-06-04 07:33:18 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
718 2013-06-04 07:33:23 phma has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
719 2013-06-04 07:33:59 <duSn> Julius129: don't let phantomcircuit scare ya - i can let you borrow my floppy disk cluster - you'd have to supply your own floppy disks
720 2013-06-04 07:35:01 <phantomcircuit> also
721 2013-06-04 07:35:19 <Julius129> i can never run out of memory if i have if i fetch my nokia 3310 cluster
722 2013-06-04 07:35:26 <phantomcircuit> Julius129, loading the wallet.dat takes about 1500 usec per key currently, with some modifications that can drop to about 80 usec
723 2013-06-04 07:35:26 <Julius129> hyehe
724 2013-06-04 07:35:47 <CodeShark> is it considered good style to push into a container inside a for loop that iterates on that container's size?
725 2013-06-04 07:35:55 <Julius129> yeah, i dont really think such an attack is feasible
726 2013-06-04 07:36:03 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, lol absolutely not
727 2013-06-04 07:36:11 <Julius129> but you will find people that will play lotto on the blockchain
728 2013-06-04 07:36:39 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, this should almost certainly be a while loop
729 2013-06-04 07:37:06 <phantomcircuit> but since it appears to only allow iterating over transactions in vtxPrev
730 2013-06-04 07:37:10 <phantomcircuit> it should probably just
731 2013-06-04 07:37:12 <phantomcircuit> you know
732 2013-06-04 07:37:18 <phantomcircuit> iterator over vtxPrev
733 2013-06-04 07:38:02 <phantomcircuit> Julius129, but 1,000,000 private keys is only ~1.2 GB of resident memory
734 2013-06-04 07:39:19 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
735 2013-06-04 07:39:21 <Julius129> you can store the private keys in a DB, and search for the funds by the short address? so you only put the addresses in the memory and only use the private key when you actually hit something
736 2013-06-04 07:39:39 <CodeShark> you only need the private key to sign transactions
737 2013-06-04 07:39:54 <phantomcircuit> Julius129, the current system essentially iterates over everything constantly to come up with things like the wallets balance
738 2013-06-04 07:40:06 <phantomcircuit> a system that stored the private keys in a db might be preferable
739 2013-06-04 07:40:16 <phantomcircuit> but for now would be impractical given how everything else works
740 2013-06-04 07:40:16 <sipa> Julius129: also, nowhere in the software is there any notion of a "balance of an address"
741 2013-06-04 07:40:35 nimdAHK has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
742 2013-06-04 07:40:35 <sipa> you need the specific coins (previous outputs) to be able to spend them
743 2013-06-04 07:40:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hey so im prettty sure IsConfirmed is totally borked
744 2013-06-04 07:40:47 <CodeShark> balance of an address can be defined as sum of all unspent outputs redeemable using the private key(s) associated with the address
745 2013-06-04 07:40:56 <sipa> CodeShark: it's well defined, it's just not useful
746 2013-06-04 07:41:04 <Julius129> yeah its not efficient for attacking the system
747 2013-06-04 07:41:30 <Julius129> if someone is going to try this they will load the blockchain in the memory, and then look for all referenced addresses in previous transactions
748 2013-06-04 07:41:40 <Julius129> and then search for any of used addresses
749 2013-06-04 07:41:43 <phantomcircuit> huh
750 2013-06-04 07:41:53 <phantomcircuit> there's no attack here
751 2013-06-04 07:41:56 <phantomcircuit> it's just slow code
752 2013-06-04 07:42:15 <CodeShark> it's a self-attack :p
753 2013-06-04 07:42:19 <phantomcircuit> which is probably slow because it appears to be processing the same thing over and over again with no hope of a different answer
754 2013-06-04 07:42:37 MobiusL has joined
755 2013-06-04 07:42:41 <Julius129> yeah, was just pointing out that someone in here might want to play lottery hehe
756 2013-06-04 07:42:42 <sipa> phantomcircuit: might well be
757 2013-06-04 07:42:50 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i don't think i ever looked at that code
758 2013-06-04 07:43:05 <CodeShark> if nothing else the control structures should be changed in IsConfirmed
759 2013-06-04 07:43:17 <CodeShark> if for no other reason than style :)
760 2013-06-04 07:44:00 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it appears to be trying to perform a breadth first transversal of the transactions input tree without going past vtxPrev (which contains all the dependent transactions for something like 3 links)
761 2013-06-04 07:44:37 <phantomcircuit> if any of them are either not final, or not sent by the local wallet then it gives up
762 2013-06-04 07:44:45 <phantomcircuit> except for some reason that's not what's happening
763 2013-06-04 07:46:10 mollison has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
764 2013-06-04 07:46:24 Blackreign has joined
765 2013-06-04 07:48:51 <shesek> are multisig addresses order-sensitive?
766 2013-06-04 07:48:59 <sipa> yes
767 2013-06-04 07:49:22 <CodeShark> might be a good idea to enforce some canonical ordering?
768 2013-06-04 07:49:40 <CodeShark> or is there a good reason to support multiple permutations producing different addresses?
769 2013-06-04 07:49:54 <sipa> BFL works \o/
770 2013-06-04 07:50:08 <phantomcircuit> lol sipa doesn't care about your multisig problems
771 2013-06-04 07:50:10 <sipa> now, if only i had a second swiss-to-US power converter, i could use the second one!
772 2013-06-04 07:50:12 <phantomcircuit> he's got his shiny
773 2013-06-04 07:50:16 <sipa> haha
774 2013-06-04 07:50:24 <Julius129> 220v to 110v?
775 2013-06-04 07:50:40 <phantomcircuit> sipa, careful it can actually handle 220
776 2013-06-04 07:50:40 <CodeShark> some copper wire and a couple chunks of iron :p
777 2013-06-04 07:50:46 <phantomcircuit> i've had a few uh
778 2013-06-04 07:51:00 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i checked that :)
779 2013-06-04 07:51:04 <phantomcircuit> incidents with things that were not actually tested with 220 but labeled as 110-240
780 2013-06-04 07:51:04 <sipa> Julius129: just the shape of the plug
781 2013-06-04 07:51:14 <Julius129> cut the plug off!
782 2013-06-04 07:51:16 <Julius129> mine
783 2013-06-04 07:51:17 <Julius129> :)
784 2013-06-04 07:51:47 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ps my wallet with 1 million keys now works just fine
785 2013-06-04 07:51:52 <sipa> great to hear
786 2013-06-04 07:52:01 <sipa> will be nice to have your improvements merged
787 2013-06-04 07:52:02 <phantomcircuit> i'll be spamming nonsense 0.01 transactions now until it stops working just fine
788 2013-06-04 07:52:20 <CodeShark> testnet, hopefully :)
789 2013-06-04 07:52:41 <Julius129> omg let me take my box off the tesnet 0_o first
790 2013-06-04 07:52:41 <Julius129> hehe
791 2013-06-04 07:52:57 <phantomcircuit> lol yes testnet
792 2013-06-04 07:53:19 seeingidog__ has joined
793 2013-06-04 07:53:21 <phantomcircuit> i would never do this nonsense on the mainnet
794 2013-06-04 07:53:32 <phantomcircuit> not to mention my txs would never get mined anyways
795 2013-06-04 07:53:34 <Julius129> you cant affort it
796 2013-06-04 07:53:35 <Julius129> lol
797 2013-06-04 07:53:56 justusranvier is now known as justusranvier_
798 2013-06-04 07:54:35 <Julius129> or lets ask http://blockchain.info/address/1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a
799 2013-06-04 07:54:44 <Julius129> he can help us test
800 2013-06-04 07:54:46 <Julius129> hehe
801 2013-06-04 07:54:53 jdnavarro has joined
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809 2013-06-04 08:01:20 <sipa> Luke-Jr: with bfgminer (and without other software), can i have blocks built by my local bitcoind, but have payouts done by a pool?
810 2013-06-04 08:03:27 <Luke-Jr> sipa: err.. I'm assuming "without other software" doesn't exclude bitcoind <.<
811 2013-06-04 08:03:34 <Luke-Jr> and that's still a work-in-progress
812 2013-06-04 08:03:53 gjj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
813 2013-06-04 08:05:05 <sipa> sure, i mean, no proxying software
814 2013-06-04 08:05:06 <sipa> ok
815 2013-06-04 08:05:26 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
816 2013-06-04 08:05:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, iirc vchPrivKey contains the public key
817 2013-06-04 08:05:46 <phantomcircuit> as does vchPubkey
818 2013-06-04 08:05:49 <sipa> phantomcircuit: irrelevant
819 2013-06-04 08:06:00 <sipa> phantomcircuit: we don't care about the pubkey in CPrivKey's
820 2013-06-04 08:06:09 gjj_ has joined
821 2013-06-04 08:06:12 <sipa> it's not what bitcoin uses anyway
822 2013-06-04 08:06:14 <sipa> (afaik)
823 2013-06-04 08:06:18 <phantomcircuit> sipa, how? it's still checking that vchPubKey matches the pubkey in vchPrivKey
824 2013-06-04 08:06:42 <sipa> so, imagine your wallet contains a key [pubkey1] -> [privkey2]
825 2013-06-04 08:06:51 <sipa> privkey2 has an embedded pubkey2
826 2013-06-04 08:06:54 <phantomcircuit> right
827 2013-06-04 08:06:57 <sipa> your check will say everything is fine
828 2013-06-04 08:07:01 <sipa> but we don't care about pubkey2
829 2013-06-04 08:07:05 <phantomcircuit> no it wont
830 2013-06-04 08:07:10 quijibo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
831 2013-06-04 08:07:13 <phantomcircuit> it'll explode on pubkey1 != pubkey2
832 2013-06-04 08:07:27 <sipa> hmm, ok
833 2013-06-04 08:07:34 <sipa> so what's the point of having the hash?
834 2013-06-04 08:07:43 <sipa> ah, i see
835 2013-06-04 08:07:46 <phantomcircuit> sipa, just to make sure the entry hasn't been corrupted
836 2013-06-04 08:07:58 <sipa> you use the hash to guarantee the privkey (with embedded pubkey) isn't modified
837 2013-06-04 08:08:03 <phantomcircuit> right
838 2013-06-04 08:08:09 <sipa> and then compare against the outer pubkey
839 2013-06-04 08:08:10 <sipa> meh
840 2013-06-04 08:08:16 <phantomcircuit> lol
841 2013-06-04 08:08:21 <sipa> i want to get rid of that key storage anyway
842 2013-06-04 08:08:25 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
843 2013-06-04 08:08:29 <sipa> just keyid -> secret would suffice
844 2013-06-04 08:08:36 <phantomcircuit> it could really all be replaced with [anything goes here] -> [privkey, hash]
845 2013-06-04 08:09:00 <sipa> keyid -> [secret, hash(keyid+hash)]
846 2013-06-04 08:09:04 <sipa> would be perfect
847 2013-06-04 08:09:09 <phantomcircuit> what's the keyid again?
848 2013-06-04 08:09:20 <sipa> 20-byte binary representation of address
849 2013-06-04 08:09:30 altamic has joined
850 2013-06-04 08:09:33 <phantomcircuit> oh right
851 2013-06-04 08:09:41 altamic has quit (Client Quit)
852 2013-06-04 08:09:45 <phantomcircuit> yeah that would be better
853 2013-06-04 08:09:57 <phantomcircuit> leveldb has one problem there though
854 2013-06-04 08:10:01 <phantomcircuit> it's not just 1 file
855 2013-06-04 08:10:29 <phantomcircuit> so there would need to be import/export built into the ui and a second single file format
856 2013-06-04 08:11:05 tonikt has joined
857 2013-06-04 08:11:08 <sipa> #2592
858 2013-06-04 08:11:23 <sipa> also, who's talking about leveldb?
859 2013-06-04 08:11:28 <phantomcircuit> also the choke point is now flushing wallet.dat
860 2013-06-04 08:11:37 <sipa> yeah yeah we all want to get rid of bdb
861 2013-06-04 08:11:38 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i assumed you were but i guess i shouldn't have
862 2013-06-04 08:11:49 ShapeShifter499 has joined
863 2013-06-04 08:12:01 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
864 2013-06-04 08:12:13 <sipa> i intend to replace wallet.dat with a custom binary append-only file format with cryptographic checksums built-in
865 2013-06-04 08:12:38 <sipa> and then have a nice human-readable import/export format (#2592)
866 2013-06-04 08:13:08 mrkent has joined
867 2013-06-04 08:13:34 nethershaw has joined
868 2013-06-04 08:14:22 <sipa> ;;genrate 9000
869 2013-06-04 08:14:22 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 9000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 12153411.7098, is 0.372418770627 BTC per day and 0.0155174487761 BTC per hour.
870 2013-06-04 08:15:00 <nsh> phantomcircuit, you have unlocked the "superhack quadratic speedup achievement"
871 2013-06-04 08:15:10 <phantomcircuit> sipa, you can now quit your day job
872 2013-06-04 08:15:16 <phantomcircuit> (if you worked at mcdonalds or something)
873 2013-06-04 08:15:28 <sipa> my day job pays a bit better than that :p
874 2013-06-04 08:15:53 <phantomcircuit> nsh, i didn't even fix the real problem i just put in a result cache that's O(log n)
875 2013-06-04 08:16:03 <phantomcircuit> it's still running O(godknowswhat)
876 2013-06-04 08:16:59 <nsh> heh :)
877 2013-06-04 08:20:17 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
878 2013-06-04 08:20:35 nethershaw has joined
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882 2013-06-04 08:24:10 gritball has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
883 2013-06-04 08:24:19 <nsh> phantomcircuit, would it be anal to check that the right number of supporting transactions are added in the first place, without dupes?
884 2013-06-04 08:24:52 phma has joined
885 2013-06-04 08:26:06 <nsh> AddSupportingTransactions uses a setAlreadyDone construct that looks similar to your fix in IsConfirmed...
886 2013-06-04 08:26:51 <phantomcircuit> nsh, lol
887 2013-06-04 08:26:54 phma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
888 2013-06-04 08:27:01 gritball has joined
889 2013-06-04 08:27:17 <phantomcircuit> nsh, they're written by the same guy too
890 2013-06-04 08:27:19 phma has joined
891 2013-06-04 08:27:49 <nsh> "same guy" :)
892 2013-06-04 08:29:06 <nsh> Nicolas Bourbaki
893 2013-06-04 08:29:45 digitalmagus has quit (Quit: gnight)
894 2013-06-04 08:32:04 <phantomcircuit> nsh, no try gitblame
895 2013-06-04 08:32:07 <phantomcircuit> which is... apt
896 2013-06-04 08:32:08 agnostic98 has joined
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903 2013-06-04 08:37:47 <phantomcircuit> ok well
904 2013-06-04 08:37:47 phma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
905 2013-06-04 08:38:04 <phantomcircuit> several million times performance boost for the wallet is enough for one day...
906 2013-06-04 08:38:14 phma has joined
907 2013-06-04 08:39:59 t7 has joined
908 2013-06-04 08:42:05 <phantomcircuit> nsh, you'd think when he was adding the cache to AddSupportingTransactions he would have thought to himself
909 2013-06-04 08:42:16 <phantomcircuit> "HMM WHY THE #%#% DO I HAVE TO DO THIS???"
910 2013-06-04 08:42:22 <phantomcircuit> but apparently not
911 2013-06-04 08:45:49 * nsh smiles
912 2013-06-04 08:45:57 illopel has joined
913 2013-06-04 08:46:16 <phantomcircuit> to be fair
914 2013-06-04 08:46:20 <phantomcircuit> i cant see why it fails
915 2013-06-04 08:46:52 <phantomcircuit> it seems like a classic breadth first search of the acyclic directed graph formed by the transactions
916 2013-06-04 08:47:46 <nsh> beyond me at this stage too
917 2013-06-04 08:47:56 <phantomcircuit> wait
918 2013-06-04 08:47:58 <phantomcircuit> lol
919 2013-06-04 08:47:58 phma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
920 2013-06-04 08:48:17 <phantomcircuit> vWorkQueue gets the hash of the previous transaction
921 2013-06-04 08:48:52 phma has joined
922 2013-06-04 08:48:53 <phantomcircuit> but a transaction can have more than 1 input from the same transaction
923 2013-06-04 08:48:54 <phantomcircuit> lol
924 2013-06-04 08:48:57 <phantomcircuit> i think that's it
925 2013-06-04 08:49:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah im pretty sure it is
926 2013-06-04 08:49:36 <phantomcircuit> transaction with 2 inputs that point to the same transactions outputs
927 2013-06-04 08:50:45 <phantomcircuit> er
928 2013-06-04 08:50:46 <phantomcircuit> not output
929 2013-06-04 08:50:54 <nsh> ah
930 2013-06-04 08:51:02 <nsh> yes, because it adds each time
931 2013-06-04 08:51:06 <phantomcircuit> transaction with 2 inputs where they point to different outpoints of the same transaction
932 2013-06-04 08:51:09 <phantomcircuit> yeah
933 2013-06-04 08:51:27 <nsh> makes sense
934 2013-06-04 08:51:52 <phantomcircuit> so
935 2013-06-04 08:52:01 <phantomcircuit> if you have 1 transaction with like
936 2013-06-04 08:52:06 <phantomcircuit> a bajillion outputs
937 2013-06-04 08:52:24 <phantomcircuit> lets use real numbers
938 2013-06-04 08:52:27 <phantomcircuit> 10k outputs
939 2013-06-04 08:52:34 <nsh> right
940 2013-06-04 08:52:41 <phantomcircuit> and you have 1 transaction that references it 10 times
941 2013-06-04 08:52:49 <phantomcircuit> you're not processing that same transaction 100k times
942 2013-06-04 08:52:52 illopel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
943 2013-06-04 08:52:56 <phantomcircuit> s/not/now/
944 2013-06-04 08:52:59 <nsh> yup
945 2013-06-04 08:53:06 <nsh> result: superfun!
946 2013-06-04 08:53:23 <nsh> you cache is probably pretty optimal fix then
947 2013-06-04 08:53:25 <nsh> *your
948 2013-06-04 08:53:42 <phantomcircuit> yeah actually it's probably either optimal or pretty close to it
949 2013-06-04 08:53:50 seeingidog__ has joined
950 2013-06-04 08:54:13 <phantomcircuit> but now i really do need to sleep
951 2013-06-04 08:54:16 <phantomcircuit> o.o
952 2013-06-04 08:54:27 <nsh> okay, well, a good swatting! :)
953 2013-06-04 08:55:00 <nsh> tomorrow some more perf to see how much of an improvement these is maybe
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969 2013-06-04 09:38:29 <sipa> ;;genrate 4000
970 2013-06-04 09:38:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 12153411.7098, is 0.165519453612 BTC per day and 0.0068966439005 BTC per hour.
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998 2013-06-04 10:10:48 ne0futur is now known as ne0futur`
999 2013-06-04 10:11:10 ne0futur` is now known as ne0futur
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1003 2013-06-04 10:19:12 <runeks> Is there a way to enable timestamps in debug.log?
1004 2013-06-04 10:19:41 <sipa> -logtimestamps
1005 2013-06-04 10:19:52 <runeks> Thanks
1006 2013-06-04 10:20:03 <runeks> Probably should have RTFM for that one :)
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1016 2013-06-04 10:32:57 <runeks> Have anyone else tried syncing the chain on an Amazon EC2 Micro instance with reindex=1? It's taking around 15 seconds per block :\
1017 2013-06-04 10:33:13 <warren> sipa: still struggling with win32 gmp.
1018 2013-06-04 10:33:14 <Scrat> runeks: just don't bother
1019 2013-06-04 10:33:24 <Scrat> it has the slowest EBS volume
1020 2013-06-04 10:33:25 dave4925 has joined
1021 2013-06-04 10:33:33 <warren> sipa: the openssl num alternative doesn't seem to work either, oddly enough
1022 2013-06-04 10:33:37 <duSn> gmp is suppose to be real fast
1023 2013-06-04 10:33:40 <runeks> Scrat: yeah I suspect that's the bottleneck.
1024 2013-06-04 10:33:59 agnostic98 has joined
1025 2013-06-04 10:34:14 <duSn> oh nvm those are two different topics
1026 2013-06-04 10:34:41 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1027 2013-06-04 10:35:51 <runeks> Scrat: So what do you recommend instead?
1028 2013-06-04 10:36:28 <Scrat> runeks: anything other than a micro
1029 2013-06-04 10:36:43 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1030 2013-06-04 10:37:13 <CodeShark> I recommend a machine with dedicated I/O :)
1031 2013-06-04 10:42:12 <runeks> CodeShark: So what are some cheap options for that?
1032 2013-06-04 10:42:35 <CodeShark> runeks: what are you trying to do?
1033 2013-06-04 10:43:51 <CodeShark> i.e. is this instance just for personal use? are you intending to build some merchant services atop it? is it for development?
1034 2013-06-04 10:44:08 <warren> sipa: /tmp/cc6P2UbT.o:test.c:(.text+0x1e): undefined reference to `___gmpz_init'
1035 2013-06-04 10:44:19 <warren> sipa: some kind of difference in the mingw toolchain
1036 2013-06-04 10:44:37 <warren> sipa: this symbol is nowhere in the gmp source, so it is internal to the compiler or something
1037 2013-06-04 10:44:50 <CodeShark> looks like a mangled name
1038 2013-06-04 10:44:58 <runeks> CodeShark: It will just run a bitcoind instance that I use to build the data for this site: http://runeks.dk/bitcoin/
1039 2013-06-04 10:45:02 <warren> yeah
1040 2013-06-04 10:45:08 dave4925 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1041 2013-06-04 10:45:27 <runeks> CodeShark: No merchant services, I just need a synced bitcoind I can ask for info about blocks.
1042 2013-06-04 10:45:45 <CodeShark> runeks: if you're not planning on using a wallet on it or storing private keys, you can just get a cheap VPS somewhere
1043 2013-06-04 10:45:58 dave4925 has joined
1044 2013-06-04 10:45:59 Neozonz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1045 2013-06-04 10:46:11 <runeks> CodeShark: Amazon's free Micro instance is pretty cheap :)
1046 2013-06-04 10:46:19 <CodeShark> what's your budget?
1047 2013-06-04 10:46:34 duSn has quit (Quit: leaving)
1048 2013-06-04 10:47:20 <runeks> CodeShark: I haven't considered that. Which is why I'm hoping the free Micro instance will do. It's just a site for fun. I'm sure not more than 10 people have viewed it.
1049 2013-06-04 10:49:04 <CodeShark> you don't necessarily need completely dedicated I/O - but you also don't want to be sharing the I/O with hundreds of other users :p
1050 2013-06-04 10:49:12 savetheinternet has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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1052 2013-06-04 10:50:58 <Luke-Jr> hum, conference attendees were given plastic cards with public/private key pairs
1053 2013-06-04 10:51:12 <CodeShark> oh yeah - almost forgot about those
1054 2013-06-04 10:51:14 <Luke-Jr> would be a PR disaster if the private keys were kept on file somewhere
1055 2013-06-04 10:52:16 <CodeShark> runeks: I would recommend getting a $20 VPS somewhere and also using it for other things like backups to get good value for it
1056 2013-06-04 10:52:36 nouitfvf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1057 2013-06-04 10:53:13 <CodeShark> I guess you can get backup space anywhere free nowadays :p
1058 2013-06-04 10:53:21 kn0tsel has joined
1059 2013-06-04 10:53:51 <runeks> CodeShark: Thanks for your advice. I will consider that if this Micro instance proves to be hopeless. I'll let it run for a couple of days and see if it catches up. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really matter if the initial sync takes days. When it finally is in sync, it won't have to handle more than a single block per ~10 minutes, and my application isn't exactly time-critical.
1060 2013-06-04 10:54:36 <CodeShark> bitcoind is still pretty I/O intensive
1061 2013-06-04 10:54:50 seeingidog__ has joined
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1064 2013-06-04 10:55:00 <runeks> CodeShark: yeah. I got 100GB of Google Drive storage with my Chromebook. But I would have to encrypt my backups, plus I'm on a 1mbit upload ADSL line, so it would take ages.
1065 2013-06-04 10:56:06 debiantoruser has joined
1066 2013-06-04 10:56:36 <runeks> I think it's the tx-index that's taking time. Messages like these pop up after each 10 blocks or so: "Committing 11466 changed transactions to coin database..."
1067 2013-06-04 10:57:36 <sipa> runeks: no that's the UTXO set
1068 2013-06-04 10:57:45 Neozonz has joined
1069 2013-06-04 10:57:50 <sipa> runeks: use a higher dbcache if you want it occur less frequently
1070 2013-06-04 10:58:24 <runeks> sipa: Oh, ok. Is the dbcache stored in memory?
1071 2013-06-04 10:58:35 <sipa> yes
1072 2013-06-04 10:58:37 <runeks> And it's 25MB by defaylt, right?
1073 2013-06-04 10:58:40 <sipa> yes
1074 2013-06-04 10:58:47 savetheinternet has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1075 2013-06-04 10:58:56 <sipa> i usually set it to 1000 or so
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1079 2013-06-04 10:59:38 <sipa> warren: why does openssl not work?
1080 2013-06-04 10:59:40 <runeks> I have 340 MB of RAM left on the instance. But if it cant handle 25MB disk writes without decreasing in performance, something is really wrong.
1081 2013-06-04 11:00:05 <sipa> if you have a larger cache, you're effectively writing less
1082 2013-06-04 11:00:31 <sipa> as outputs that are created and consumed before flushing cache, never hit disk at all
1083 2013-06-04 11:01:59 <warren> sipa: haven't tried to figure it out yet. I'm about to give up on gmp building with win32.
1084 2013-06-04 11:02:11 ralphtheninja has joined
1085 2013-06-04 11:02:22 <runeks> sipa: I assume I can't abort the -reindex now and make it pick up where it left off?
1086 2013-06-04 11:02:48 <sipa> runeks: you can
1087 2013-06-04 11:02:51 <warren> Googe for "mingw undefined reference to `___gmpz_init'" seems to find related issues from long ago. Tried some of their workarounds. no luck.
1088 2013-06-04 11:02:54 <warren> Google
1089 2013-06-04 11:03:09 <warren> trying openssl..
1090 2013-06-04 11:03:39 <runeks> sipa: So if I terminate bitcoind now, and run it again with -reindex, it won't start over? Isn't the point of -reindex to start over?
1091 2013-06-04 11:03:50 <sipa> runeks: with -reindex, it will start over
1092 2013-06-04 11:03:58 <sipa> runeks: without -reindex, it will continue where it left off
1093 2013-06-04 11:04:05 <CodeShark> if you omit -reindex it will pick it up where you are
1094 2013-06-04 11:04:19 <runeks> sipa: Cool! I'll do that then.
1095 2013-06-04 11:04:19 <CodeShark> :)
1096 2013-06-04 11:04:27 damientrog has left ()
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1098 2013-06-04 11:05:54 <warren> sipa: running into very similar issues, /tmp/cc0QhczD.o:test.c:(.text+0x17): undefined reference to `_BN_CTX_new'
1099 2013-06-04 11:06:04 <warren> sipa: neither of those tests in ./configure work
1100 2013-06-04 11:06:55 <sipa> http://www.mingw.org/wiki/MSVC_and_MinGW_DLLs
1101 2013-06-04 11:07:53 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1102 2013-06-04 11:08:20 paracyst has quit ()
1103 2013-06-04 11:08:28 <sipa> perhaps experiment with __stdcall or __cdecl
1104 2013-06-04 11:09:34 <warren> I've been at the computer for 15 hours straight
1105 2013-06-04 11:09:39 <warren> I should probably try more tomorrow
1106 2013-06-04 11:09:40 <sipa> go to sleep
1107 2013-06-04 11:09:58 viperhr has joined
1108 2013-06-04 11:10:15 <warren> sipa: static gmp or openssl is required for the win32 gitian build right?
1109 2013-06-04 11:10:23 <sipa> no clue
1110 2013-06-04 11:10:43 <warren> I mean, we don't ship anything but bitcoind.exe, no dll's
1111 2013-06-04 11:10:50 <sipa> yeah
1112 2013-06-04 11:10:50 <warren> so it has to be static
1113 2013-06-04 11:10:55 cads has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1114 2013-06-04 11:11:25 <warren> I don't know much about mingw. i586-mingw32msvc-gcc implies the output is compatible with MSVC?
1115 2013-06-04 11:11:38 <sipa> no clue
1116 2013-06-04 11:11:38 <TheUni> warren: i assume you have -lcrypto linked in proper order?
1117 2013-06-04 11:11:40 <warren> that wiki page indicates there's two output formats
1118 2013-06-04 11:12:54 avar has quit (Quit: leaving)
1119 2013-06-04 11:12:57 <TheUni> sipa: who should i ping about darwin builds?
1120 2013-06-04 11:13:10 <TheUni> autotools is complete now, building and passing all tests on all build types
1121 2013-06-04 11:13:18 <sipa> including windows?
1122 2013-06-04 11:13:21 avar has joined
1123 2013-06-04 11:13:23 <TheUni> but i'm unsure about some of the osx decisions
1124 2013-06-04 11:13:23 <TheUni> yea
1125 2013-06-04 11:13:28 <sipa> oh wow, impressive
1126 2013-06-04 11:13:29 <warren> "-lgmp" or "-lcrypto" are dynamic linking only?
1127 2013-06-04 11:13:34 <sipa> yes
1128 2013-06-04 11:13:38 <warren> ok, just checking
1129 2013-06-04 11:13:39 <sipa> (i think)
1130 2013-06-04 11:13:59 <TheUni> warren: if you're linking -lssl, you'll need -lcrypto too
1131 2013-06-04 11:14:04 <TheUni> in that order, if they're static
1132 2013-06-04 11:14:16 <warren> you need -lcrypto with static linking?
1133 2013-06-04 11:14:24 <TheUni> yes
1134 2013-06-04 11:14:29 <sipa> ok, forget what i said
1135 2013-06-04 11:14:31 <TheUni> lssl depends on it
1136 2013-06-04 11:15:05 <warren> ubuntu@ubuntu:~/build/bitcoin/src/secp256k1$ i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -I /home/ubuntu/build/openssl-1.0.1c/include/ -L /home/ubuntu/build/openssl-1.0.1c/ -lssl -lcrypto test.c -o test.o
1137 2013-06-04 11:15:05 <warren> /tmp/ccYBL3jB.o:test.c:(.text+0x17): undefined reference to `_BN_CTX_new'
1138 2013-06-04 11:15:05 <warren> /tmp/ccYBL3jB.o:test.c:(.text+0x25): undefined reference to `_BN_CTX_free'
1139 2013-06-04 11:15:05 <warren> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
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1144 2013-06-04 11:16:54 <TheUni> i586-mingw32msvc-nm -C libcrypto.a | grep BN_CTX_new
1145 2013-06-04 11:16:54 <TheUni> 00000090 T BN_CTX_new
1146 2013-06-04 11:16:57 <warren> the -l's make no difference, it seems to find the .a just fine with the -I
1147 2013-06-04 11:17:38 <warren> ubuntu@ubuntu:~/build/openssl-1.0.1c$ i586-mingw32msvc-nm -C libcrypto.a |grep BN_CTX_new
1148 2013-06-04 11:17:38 <warren> 00000090 T BN_CTX_new
1149 2013-06-04 11:17:51 <warren> I must be missing something obvious...
1150 2013-06-04 11:18:08 <TheUni> you can use -Wl,--trace-symbol to watch what pulls it in
1151 2013-06-04 11:18:20 <warren> thanks
1152 2013-06-04 11:18:33 <TheUni> or -Wl,-Map and use some grep-fu
1153 2013-06-04 11:18:51 Bwild has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1154 2013-06-04 11:18:58 <TheUni> warren: it builds fine here though. what are you playing with?
1155 2013-06-04 11:19:07 <warren> TheUni: secp256k1
1156 2013-06-04 11:19:25 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1
1157 2013-06-04 11:19:27 one_zero has quit ()
1158 2013-06-04 11:19:35 <warren> let me push my tree, hold
1159 2013-06-04 11:21:23 Bwild has joined
1160 2013-06-04 11:25:20 <warren> sipa: TheUni: https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/secp256k1-win32
1161 2013-06-04 11:26:17 <TheUni> warren: for one thing, you shouldn't need to be passing all of those env vars
1162 2013-06-04 11:26:29 <TheUni> --host= should handle that for you
1163 2013-06-04 11:26:47 <warren> TheUni: the commit from yesterday builds linux gitian builds just fine. The latest commit attempts to build gmp static, added to deps-win32.yml then copy to inputs/, then use it to link gmp static to secp256k1.
1164 2013-06-04 11:27:18 <TheUni> heh, this madness has got to end :)
1165 2013-06-04 11:27:44 <warren> oh, and I had to break the timestamp thing to get gmp to build at all
1166 2013-06-04 11:28:09 <warren> I guess it doesn't need the .la files?
1167 2013-06-04 11:28:23 <TheUni> do you have a working libtool?
1168 2013-06-04 11:28:29 <sipa> TheUni: feel free to improve libsecp256k1's build config as well :D
1169 2013-06-04 11:28:59 huckfinne has joined
1170 2013-06-04 11:29:17 <sipa> jgarzik said he'd autotoolize it, but that's been a while
1171 2013-06-04 11:29:24 <warren> there's no libtool installed in that gitian template
1172 2013-06-04 11:29:48 <TheUni> sipa: i'm not going to mess with the gitian stuff til i'm more familiar with how things work around here. I'm afraid it will just lead to bikeshedding
1173 2013-06-04 11:30:13 <TheUni> basically, i need to get a better idea of who i should be discussing these things with first
1174 2013-06-04 11:30:45 <warren> TheUni: it isn't clear that --host is doing the job right for gmp, so I just copied all the env variables before --host from the other gitian deps
1175 2013-06-04 11:30:51 <TheUni> warren: then the la's aren't doing you any good, no
1176 2013-06-04 11:31:01 <warren> TheUni: just checking, thanks
1177 2013-06-04 11:31:02 <sipa> TheUni: as far as i'm concerned, you can mess with the gitian scripts all you want (if you want them to produce output in a different directory layout or something)
1178 2013-06-04 11:31:58 <TheUni> sipa: well, we'll see how the autotools discussion goes
1179 2013-06-04 11:32:17 <warren> I'm not sure how normal win32 gitian builds work at all, if I can't static link openssl now.
1180 2013-06-04 11:32:29 <TheUni> i'm trying to understand now how official osx builds are created, and what the reasoning behind it is
1181 2013-06-04 11:32:43 <sipa> TheUni: "gavin builds them, signs them, publishes them"
1182 2013-06-04 11:32:55 <warren> I have a guy here interested in working on making MacOS deterministic.
1183 2013-06-04 11:33:10 <warren> If you can establish a BTC bounty he'd have more motivation.
1184 2013-06-04 11:33:22 <TheUni> for ex, i created a fat (x64/x32) binary very easily. seems it's more trouble to do anything else really
1185 2013-06-04 11:33:38 <TheUni> warren: i'm happy to redo all of the builds for free, as long as i'm not met with too much opposition
1186 2013-06-04 11:33:49 <warren> TheUni: deterministic?
1187 2013-06-04 11:34:21 <sipa> TheUni: afaik, that's what happens, but i know ~0 about OSX
1188 2013-06-04 11:34:32 <warren> I know ~0 about win32
1189 2013-06-04 11:34:40 <warren> I feel like I'm very close.
1190 2013-06-04 11:34:44 <TheUni> warren: i guess i don't understand why you guys throw that term around so often. i'm not sure why deterministic is any issue in a sandboxed cross env
1191 2013-06-04 11:35:34 <CodeShark> the only reason seems to be to have a simple way for anyone to verify that a particular source produced the binary that was signed
1192 2013-06-04 11:35:39 <TheUni> a virtual machine seems like such overkill compared to self-hosting tools
1193 2013-06-04 11:36:00 <sipa> TheUni: if you can get deterministic builds without a VM, that'd be nice
1194 2013-06-04 11:36:07 agnostic98 has joined
1195 2013-06-04 11:36:13 <warren> TheUni: i'm guessing it's a paranoid way to ensure that no one developer has trojaned a build
1196 2013-06-04 11:36:13 <warren> TheUni: with timestamps it's impossible to ensure the build is clean
1197 2013-06-04 11:36:14 <warren> well, not impossible, just a big waste of time
1198 2013-06-04 11:36:16 <sipa> but it'd be very hard to reproduce across different environments
1199 2013-06-04 11:36:19 <TheUni> CodeShark: i understand the need for it, i don't understand why it has lead to such a crazy build system though
1200 2013-06-04 11:36:48 <sipa> TheUni: what would you suggest?
1201 2013-06-04 11:37:13 <TheUni> sipa: why? you guys basically only require a build-side toolchain. i'll be introducing a few more deps: m4/autoconf/automake/autoheader/etc
1202 2013-06-04 11:37:28 <TheUni> but all of those are easily self-hosting
1203 2013-06-04 11:37:42 <sipa> i don't understand your terminology
1204 2013-06-04 11:37:57 <warren> sipa: yesterday on this topic I suggested a self-hosting toolchain on mac. BlueMatt countered that bitcoin devs want everything cross-compiled from gitian so everyone can build it, not just a few people.
1205 2013-06-04 11:37:57 <TheUni> sipa: ok, easy example: python
1206 2013-06-04 11:38:14 <TheUni> sipa: python requires python to build
1207 2013-06-04 11:38:22 <TheUni> i have no idea what genius came up with that plan....
1208 2013-06-04 11:38:35 <CodeShark> most C compilers are written in C :p
1209 2013-06-04 11:38:53 <warren> TheUni: bitcoin has no win32 developers, and nobody trusts win32 anyway, so they want to do all builds on linux, thus gitian win32
1210 2013-06-04 11:38:58 <TheUni> but what it means is that in order to cross-compile python, you have to build a native python first
1211 2013-06-04 11:39:11 <TheUni> so you build it with your native toolchain
1212 2013-06-04 11:39:34 <TheUni> so when you use THAT python to build your cross python, it's easy to make the resulting cross-build deterministic.
1213 2013-06-04 11:39:38 <TheUni> that's what i mean by self-hosting
1214 2013-06-04 11:40:09 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1215 2013-06-04 11:40:30 <sipa> TheUni: it seems to me your comment is "why is your build system gitian only", and the reason is simply because that's what somewhat made to work, and it suffices; if you want to create a more general build system by moving stuff that is now done in gitian descripts to autoconf/..., and then make the gitian descriptors more light-weight, and it keeps working: by all means, go ahead
1216 2013-06-04 11:40:36 <warren> sipa: I'm giving up on win32 secp256k1 for this week. I need to get other things done.
1217 2013-06-04 11:40:41 cads has joined
1218 2013-06-04 11:40:55 <warren> sipa: I think my tree is pretty close, the git comment describes the problems
1219 2013-06-04 11:41:53 <sipa> TheUni: also, libsecp256k1 is for now relatively independent from bitcoin, and it can use a better build system too, but over time, i hope it can replace openssl-ec in bitcoin
1220 2013-06-04 11:41:55 <TheUni> sipa: i don't think it's worth discussing until i have something to show.
1221 2013-06-04 11:42:17 winterblack has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1222 2013-06-04 11:42:32 <BlueMatt> to be clear: for building bitcoin: I dont care: more availability the better, for building releases deterministically: using gitian or at least the same system everywhere would be good
1223 2013-06-04 11:42:38 nethershaw has joined
1224 2013-06-04 11:43:00 <sipa> TheUni: anyway, if your question is whether you can have autoconf/automake/... in the gitian buildenv: sure
1225 2013-06-04 11:43:11 <TheUni> sipa: nah, i don't want it in there :)
1226 2013-06-04 11:43:27 <sipa> heh, that surprises me
1227 2013-06-04 11:43:33 <sipa> what would you do then?
1228 2013-06-04 11:43:33 <TheUni> why? i hate autotools..
1229 2013-06-04 11:43:47 <warren> Litecoin Dev Team is willing to give 200 LTC to whoever figures out Bitcoin MacOS deterministic builds that would be accepted for Bitcoin releases.
1230 2013-06-04 11:44:09 <sipa> wait, i thought you were writing an autoconf build env for bitcoin?
1231 2013-06-04 11:44:15 <CodeShark> I would so much love to see autotools die and finally replaced by something better as the standard
1232 2013-06-04 11:44:17 <BlueMatt> warren: talk to Luke-Jr
1233 2013-06-04 11:44:19 <TheUni> sipa: sure, but that doesn't mean i like it :)
1234 2013-06-04 11:44:25 <warren> BlueMatt: joking?
1235 2013-06-04 11:44:31 <warren> BlueMatt: he hates litecoin =)
1236 2013-06-04 11:44:43 <sipa> warren: but he has worked on macos cross compiling
1237 2013-06-04 11:44:46 <BlueMatt> well talk to him about getting bitcoin built, he doesnt have to care about litecoin
1238 2013-06-04 11:44:47 <sipa> in gitian
1239 2013-06-04 11:45:03 <sipa> TheUni: ok sure, worst system apart from all others
1240 2013-06-04 11:45:11 saulimus has joined
1241 2013-06-04 11:45:17 <TheUni> yea
1242 2013-06-04 11:45:18 <warren> the bounty is for bitcoin, because it's the same problem for litecoin, and we think it'll be good to have verifiable builds
1243 2013-06-04 11:45:29 <sipa> i'll correct myself:
1244 2013-06-04 11:45:39 da2ce7-mobile has joined
1245 2013-06-04 11:45:45 <warren> I've been getting people to test secp256k1 ... because somebody should.
1246 2013-06-04 11:46:05 <warren> I'm aware secp256k1 still needs auditing.
1247 2013-06-04 11:46:49 <TheUni> really though, i'll redo as much of the build system as you guys are interested in. not sure why you're trying to coerce others. it's my $dayjob afterall :)
1248 2013-06-04 11:46:50 <sipa> TheUni: anyway, i regularly see you making comments about not understanding why/how the current build env is what it is, but please just give a constructive comment about in that case how you'd do it... the answer may just be "yes please go ahead"
1249 2013-06-04 11:48:08 <TheUni> sipa: understood. i suppose i should make it clear if i haven't that i'm busy hacking on it at the same time i'm complaining, though
1250 2013-06-04 11:48:16 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1251 2013-06-04 11:48:24 <CodeShark> by testing secp256k1, does that include making bitcoind builds that use it and getting a few nodes out there?
1252 2013-06-04 11:48:34 nethershaw has joined
1253 2013-06-04 11:48:52 <warren> CodeShark: yes, and litecoind too, and giving litecoind builds to private testers who have been warned
1254 2013-06-04 11:49:06 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1255 2013-06-04 11:49:15 winterblack has joined
1256 2013-06-04 11:49:33 <warren> CodeShark: our testers found one bug in secp256k1 so far, sipa fixed it.
1257 2013-06-04 11:49:40 <sipa> i'm using a secp256k1-bitcoin build myself too
1258 2013-06-04 11:49:56 <warren> I'm using it myself. I switch back and forth between it and openssl.
1259 2013-06-04 11:50:09 <TheUni> warren: could you pastebin/link your test.c that you're trying?
1260 2013-06-04 11:50:20 <TheUni> i can try a quick link on it if it'd help
1261 2013-06-04 11:50:22 <warren> TheUni: it's embedded in src/secp256k1/configure
1262 2013-06-04 11:50:24 winterblack has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1263 2013-06-04 11:50:47 <warren> https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/blob/secp256k1-win32/src/secp256k1/configure
1264 2013-06-04 11:50:53 <sipa> TheUni: please don't get a heart attack from my self-written configure script :p
1265 2013-06-04 11:51:25 <CodeShark> I self-write configure scripts, too :p
1266 2013-06-04 11:51:42 <CodeShark> I attempted autotools a couple times and THAT almost gave me a heart attack
1267 2013-06-04 11:51:49 <TheUni> sipa: heh. i think i'm probably coming off as an ocd build-system freak, that's not the case :)
1268 2013-06-04 11:52:22 <warren> I don't care what the build system is . I just hate it when toolchains are expressing bugs that people have been complaining about for years.
1269 2013-06-04 11:52:37 <warren> I guess mingw isn't well maintained
1270 2013-06-04 11:53:19 nethershaw has joined
1271 2013-06-04 11:53:22 <TheUni> warren: line 43?
1272 2013-06-04 11:54:04 <warren> TheUni: both that and line 78 have a similar failure with this mingw toolchain
1273 2013-06-04 11:54:10 <TheUni> k, sec
1274 2013-06-04 11:55:03 ericmuyser has joined
1275 2013-06-04 11:55:24 seeingidog__ has joined
1276 2013-06-04 11:55:44 <warren> I'm driving home, bbl
1277 2013-06-04 11:55:56 <dugo> tried builing on AIX and ruined my tear glands
1278 2013-06-04 11:56:05 <dugo> mingw .. pfff
1279 2013-06-04 11:58:03 <runeks> So is Bitcoin Qt going to use its own implementation of ECDSA for secp256k1?
1280 2013-06-04 11:58:30 <sipa> perhaps
1281 2013-06-04 11:58:30 <CodeShark> would be very nice
1282 2013-06-04 11:58:39 <CodeShark> I'd actually like to see sipa's library become standard :)
1283 2013-06-04 11:58:51 <CodeShark> not just used for bitcoind
1284 2013-06-04 11:58:53 <runeks> Aren't you worried that it might contain bugs?
1285 2013-06-04 11:58:58 seeingidog__ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1286 2013-06-04 11:58:59 <sipa> Very much.
1287 2013-06-04 11:59:33 <CodeShark> the OpenSSL builds will have to be phased out gradually
1288 2013-06-04 11:59:35 <runeks> What are the advantages over OpenSSL?
1289 2013-06-04 11:59:41 <sipa> > 6x faster
1290 2013-06-04 11:59:46 <runeks> That's nice.
1291 2013-06-04 11:59:48 <sipa> + get rid of OpenSSL-EC dependency
1292 2013-06-04 11:59:59 <runeks> Right, that is a bitch.
1293 2013-06-04 12:00:02 <TheUni> warren: works fine here, your link order was borked
1294 2013-06-04 12:00:26 <sipa> runeks: + remove the potential for OpenSSL implicitly defining network rules
1295 2013-06-04 12:00:57 <runeks> But I just conjure up a frightening scenario where a bug is found in the implementation in 5 years and someone uses it to steal everyone's coins.
1296 2013-06-04 12:01:05 <TheUni> warren: i586-mingw32msvc-g++ -L/home/cory/dev/bitcoin/deps/openssl-1.0.1c openssltest.cpp -I/home/cory/dev/bitcoin/deps/openssl-1.0.1c/include -lcrypto -o openssltest
1297 2013-06-04 12:01:21 <runeks> Or am I over-estimating the complexity of a secp256k1-only ECDSA implementation?
1298 2013-06-04 12:01:23 <TheUni> notice the placement of the cpp.
1299 2013-06-04 12:01:28 <sipa> TheUni: i'm much more worried about forking bugs
1300 2013-06-04 12:01:33 seeingidog__ has joined
1301 2013-06-04 12:01:43 <TheUni> ?
1302 2013-06-04 12:01:48 <sipa> eh, runeks
1303 2013-06-04 12:01:52 <runeks> I think that was for me :)
1304 2013-06-04 12:01:56 <sipa> anyway, afk!
1305 2013-06-04 12:02:39 <runeks> sipa: Really? We just experienced a forking bug recently. Didn't seem to do much damage. But a bug in the ECDSA implementation could be disastrous as far as I can see.
1306 2013-06-04 12:02:55 beethoven2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1307 2013-06-04 12:03:16 beethoven2 has joined
1308 2013-06-04 12:03:39 <CodeShark> what's most important is that all the nodes exhibit the same behavior - whether it fits the official "spec" or not
1309 2013-06-04 12:04:06 <CodeShark> OpenSSL has some undocumented things that could be construed as "bugs"
1310 2013-06-04 12:04:44 <CodeShark> i.e. accepting nonstandard data formats
1311 2013-06-04 12:04:58 <runeks> CodeShark: It's also pretty important that someone can't craft parameters for the ECDSA-verify function that returns true even if it isn't a valid signature.
1312 2013-06-04 12:05:40 <CodeShark> runeks: yes, certainly needs review and testing
1313 2013-06-04 12:06:15 <runeks> CodeShark: Right. For a year at least, I'd say. And perhaps an audit? Wouldn't this piece of the code be static, once it's final?
1314 2013-06-04 12:06:51 <CodeShark> but I think it can be broken up into a few core levels: the multiprecision arithmetic implementation (and field operations), the EC implementation (and group operations), and the crypto operations (signing, verify)
1315 2013-06-04 12:06:56 <lianj> sipa: if bitcoin get rid of openssl dependency, will other libs still be allowed to use openssl?
1316 2013-06-04 12:07:18 <lianj> oh afk, anyhow, i can wait. its irc
1317 2013-06-04 12:07:40 <CodeShark> what other libs, lianj?
1318 2013-06-04 12:08:16 <runeks> lianj: I think you'll be "allowed" to use anything that agrees with bitcoind.
1319 2013-06-04 12:08:35 <CodeShark> sha, ripemd, etc...?
1320 2013-06-04 12:08:47 <CodeShark> bignum?
1321 2013-06-04 12:08:57 <lianj> CodeShark: other bitcoin implementations to continue to use openssl
1322 2013-06-04 12:09:49 gritball has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1323 2013-06-04 12:10:06 <CodeShark> it would be absolutely critical to sanitize all inputs
1324 2013-06-04 12:10:20 malaimo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1325 2013-06-04 12:10:21 <CodeShark> and make sure they satisfy a canonical form
1326 2013-06-04 12:11:22 has quit (Clown|!Clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1331 2013-06-04 12:13:18 <CodeShark> we don't want to run into OpenSSL "undocumented features" for nonstandard formats later on :)
1332 2013-06-04 12:13:27 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1335 2013-06-04 12:20:34 <warren> TheUni: how do we fix the tests in ./configure?
1336 2013-06-04 12:20:47 <TheUni> warren: just rearrange
1337 2013-06-04 12:20:47 gritball has joined
1338 2013-06-04 12:20:53 <warren> wow
1339 2013-06-04 12:20:55 <warren> hm
1340 2013-06-04 12:20:59 <TheUni> cpp before -l's
1341 2013-06-04 12:21:20 <TheUni> and apologize to your toolchain :p
1342 2013-06-04 12:21:30 <warren> TheUni: so the toolchain for linux was just less picky?
1343 2013-06-04 12:21:59 <TheUni> warren: linux is probably shared libs, no?
1344 2013-06-04 12:22:09 <warren> oh! yes
1345 2013-06-04 12:22:48 <TheUni> link order matters with static :)
1346 2013-06-04 12:23:14 <warren> At Red Hat it was part of the religion to nuke all static links. So I literally never dealt with it before.
1347 2013-06-04 12:24:18 <TheUni> i work primarily with embedded systems, so i go the opposite direction
1348 2013-06-04 12:25:13 <TheUni> on the desktop, sure, let everyone benefit from stable apis and security fixes. on embedded, sandbox and take advantage of static links where you're not allowed to play outside anyway
1349 2013-06-04 12:25:17 <TheUni> that's how i see it, at least
1350 2013-06-04 12:25:47 <warren> 2am. I should probably look at this again later.
1351 2013-06-04 12:25:58 <TheUni> especially with fancy new compilers that can do a good job of lto/stripping
1352 2013-06-04 12:26:49 <warren> the so generally -L before the source that requires it with static?
1353 2013-06-04 12:27:05 <warren> what exactly is the order?
1354 2013-06-04 12:27:08 <TheUni> sorry, i probably confused you with my shitty copy/paste
1355 2013-06-04 12:27:13 <TheUni> it's the -l order that matters
1356 2013-06-04 12:27:37 <warren> hmm
1357 2013-06-04 12:27:41 <warren> that looks like varations I tried
1358 2013-06-04 12:28:47 <TheUni> sec
1359 2013-06-04 12:29:22 <warren> oh!
1360 2013-06-04 12:29:28 <warren> just put my test.c before -lcrypto
1361 2013-06-04 12:29:38 * warren tries gmp
1362 2013-06-04 12:29:57 metabyte_ has joined
1363 2013-06-04 12:30:40 <warren> that didn't fix -lgmp
1364 2013-06-04 12:30:45 <TheUni> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=z5dqfx42
1365 2013-06-04 12:31:04 <CodeShark> you're in hawaii?
1366 2013-06-04 12:31:07 <warren> yes
1367 2013-06-04 12:31:27 chorao has joined
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1369 2013-06-04 12:31:27 chorao has joined
1370 2013-06-04 12:32:04 <warren> ubuntu@ubuntu:~/build/bitcoin/src/secp256k1$ i586-mingw32msvc-gcc -I /home/ubuntu/build/openssl-1.0.1c/include/ -L /home/ubuntu/build/openssl-1.0.1c/ openssltest.c -lcrypto -o openssltest.o
1371 2013-06-04 12:32:06 <warren> This works.
1372 2013-06-04 12:32:38 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1373 2013-06-04 12:32:45 <warren> ooooh
1374 2013-06-04 12:32:49 <warren> got -lgmp to work
1375 2013-06-04 12:32:59 <warren> TheUni: thanks dude
1376 2013-06-04 12:33:36 <TheUni> warren: np. good rule of thumb is to always assume static, then shared will work as well
1377 2013-06-04 12:34:07 <warren> I didn't write this configure script =)
1378 2013-06-04 12:34:12 <TheUni> heh
1379 2013-06-04 12:34:37 <warren> hmm, thinking how to pass the CFLAGS from bitcoin's make
1380 2013-06-04 12:35:49 <warren> it's confusing that bitcoind and bitcoin-qt have separate build scripts
1381 2013-06-04 12:36:05 <CodeShark> don't get me started on that one :p
1382 2013-06-04 12:36:11 <TheUni> warren: if you can hold off and +1 my pull request, it'll handle that for you
1383 2013-06-04 12:36:28 <warren> Let's just preserve Satoshi's legacy. He was infallible after all.
1384 2013-06-04 12:36:36 <TheUni> i can push it up in ~12h
1385 2013-06-04 12:36:49 <warren> TheUni: ok great, I'll just sleep instead =)
1386 2013-06-04 12:36:55 <TheUni> same
1387 2013-06-04 12:37:23 <warren> was gitian Satoshi's idea?
1388 2013-06-04 12:38:02 <CodeShark> wasn't gitian added way after satoshi was officially out of the picture?
1389 2013-06-04 12:38:17 agnostic98 has joined
1390 2013-06-04 12:38:48 <warren> don't mind me. I ignored Bitcoin until February 2013. I only joined after I studied it to present Internet Law issues for a class.
1391 2013-06-04 12:38:59 <CodeShark> heh, nice
1392 2013-06-04 12:39:39 <CodeShark> looking at the gitian sigs, it seems 0.4.0 was the first version to use it, and bluematt headed the effort
1393 2013-06-04 12:40:26 <TheUni> hehe, bitcoind built for android :)
1394 2013-06-04 12:40:36 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1395 2013-06-04 12:40:45 <warren> I got really pissed off by the spam issues you folks seem unable to solve, necessitating in inefficient growth of the blockchain and UTXO so I began to learn the codebase, trying to come up with something better.
1396 2013-06-04 12:41:40 <CodeShark> the codebase issues are largely independent of protocol issues
1397 2013-06-04 12:41:48 viperhr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1398 2013-06-04 12:42:07 <CodeShark> and both have significant issues :)
1399 2013-06-04 12:42:39 <warren> well, I wanted to learn the codebase to come up with a better design for spam control. I'm convinced that fee-based incentives can shape behavior better. I really didn't like the IsDust() solution.
1400 2013-06-04 12:43:08 <CodeShark> gmaxwell has proposed a few interesting possible solutions
1401 2013-06-04 12:43:30 <warren> Satoshi was a smart dude, but he failed to charge for the growth of TXO in addition to blockchain storage space. If both were reflected in fees things would be better.
1402 2013-06-04 12:44:07 <CodeShark> actually, the error is deeper than that - what should actually get hashed into the block header is the UTXO state
1403 2013-06-04 12:44:23 <CodeShark> not just the merkle tree of transactions in the block
1404 2013-06-04 12:44:25 <petertodd> warren: I'm not sure satoshi even realized blockchain storage space could be a major issue
1405 2013-06-04 12:44:48 <petertodd> warren: The blocksize limit in the first version of bitcoin was 32MiB, and the way it was implemented seems to suggest that it was an accident.
1406 2013-06-04 12:45:02 <warren> CodeShark: I'm aware, I'm studying them. Litecoin already has unduly onerous spam prevention, so anything that lowers fees without allowing spam would be welcomed by the users there. No crazy people there screaming about "censorship" either.
1407 2013-06-04 12:46:04 <warren> petertodd: clearly he intended for unbounded block size growth!
1408 2013-06-04 12:46:06 <warren> =)
1409 2013-06-04 12:46:24 <petertodd> warren: lol, I should clarify, I don't think he realized that when he released version 0.1
1410 2013-06-04 12:46:36 <warren> joking
1411 2013-06-04 12:46:53 <CodeShark> nobody should ever need more than 640k
1412 2013-06-04 12:47:11 <petertodd> CodeShark: Man, satoshi sooo should have given us a 640k blocksize limit...
1413 2013-06-04 12:49:32 <CodeShark> how about the fact that it's easy and relatively cheap to produce outputs that are not even worth redeeming?
1414 2013-06-04 12:50:03 <CodeShark> and there's no mechanism to get rid of them
1415 2013-06-04 12:50:15 <petertodd> CodeShark: that's a fundemental hard problem without gmaxwell's pre-paying: how do you know what costs will be in the future?
1416 2013-06-04 12:50:43 <petertodd> CodeShark: But even pre-paying doesn't really fix it, because you have the second order effect of tx cost due to orphans.
1417 2013-06-04 12:52:08 <CodeShark> not sure I follow what you mean regarding orphans
1418 2013-06-04 12:52:51 <petertodd> CodeShark: The larger the block, the higher risk it has of being orphaned.
1419 2013-06-04 12:53:20 <CodeShark> is the risk substantial?
1420 2013-06-04 12:54:24 <petertodd> Yes. Even just delaying block propagation by 6 seconds represents a 1% chance of being orphaned.
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1422 2013-06-04 12:54:58 <warren> I'm considering pre-paying, although I'm wondering if there is anything wrong with litecoin's current dust deterrent. https://github.com/coblee/litecoin-old/commit/ee851e8cbdd74e8f0fe86613aa93f8c598ab88b4
1423 2013-06-04 12:55:00 <petertodd> I've spoken to pool owners that reduced the blocks their pools would produce to 250kB due to orphaning.
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1425 2013-06-04 12:55:43 jgarzik has joined
1426 2013-06-04 12:55:44 <warren> "Sure, you may make dust txo, you will just pay dearly for it."
1427 2013-06-04 12:56:03 jgarzik is now known as Guest1164
1428 2013-06-04 12:56:27 <CodeShark> would be nice to have fees automatically adjust depending on network conditions
1429 2013-06-04 12:56:31 <CodeShark> rather than being hardcoded
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1433 2013-06-04 12:56:54 <warren> I have a design for that, then gmaxwell and sipa yelled at me and pushed pre-paying hard.
1434 2013-06-04 12:57:06 <CodeShark> however, even then it's hard to take into account the market values of the fees
1435 2013-06-04 12:57:27 <warren> errr, those two things aren't connected
1436 2013-06-04 12:57:30 <petertodd> warren: pushed pre-paying for bitcoin, or an alt-coin?
1437 2013-06-04 12:57:36 <warren> petertodd: alt-coin
1438 2013-06-04 12:57:53 Prattler has joined
1439 2013-06-04 12:57:54 <petertodd> warren: ah, you making one or changing one?
1440 2013-06-04 12:57:55 <CodeShark> they sort of are, aren't they? I mean - a 0.02 fee per transaction would become prohibitive if 1 LTC was worth $1000
1441 2013-06-04 12:58:00 <warren> petertodd: I'm in favor of trying things that make sense in the alt coin, on real people, if it better serves the goals there.
1442 2013-06-04 12:58:21 <petertodd> warren: the whole dev team shares that view I think
1443 2013-06-04 12:58:41 <warren> CodeShark: currently we plan on adjusting thresholds with market conditions, kind of like how bitcoin had been doing, at least until we figure out a floating market-driven fee
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1449 2013-06-04 13:00:21 <CodeShark> yeah, I suppose if the network is getting spammed a lot with .01 fee transactions it implies that 0.01 isn't really worth that much and should be raised
1450 2013-06-04 13:00:36 <petertodd> Well, mainly it's just a way of getting around the fact that UTXO space isn't priced differently than blockchain space.
1451 2013-06-04 13:01:04 <petertodd> I'd be interested to see the response if the network was getting "spammed" with tiny transactions that *weren't* bloating the UTXO set.
1452 2013-06-04 13:01:14 <warren> Litecoin's current UTXO solution is too blunt. I want to make it smarter.
1453 2013-06-04 13:02:24 <petertodd> Myself I actually like Freicoin-like demurrange for UTXO bloat, but it should be done on a per-kB-year basis.
1454 2013-06-04 13:02:29 <petertodd> Tricky to actually implement though.
1455 2013-06-04 13:02:38 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1456 2013-06-04 13:02:44 <petertodd> (and obviously not implementable on bitcoin...)
1457 2013-06-04 13:02:50 veox has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1458 2013-06-04 13:05:05 <warren> How would that work?
1459 2013-06-04 13:05:58 <petertodd> Basically the value of any given tx out would gradually decrease at a rate proportional to the txouts size.
1460 2013-06-04 13:06:14 <petertodd> Size in bytes that is.
1461 2013-06-04 13:06:25 <petertodd> When the txout becomes worthless it gets pruned.
1462 2013-06-04 13:06:45 <CodeShark> so the value could be determined by the distance between the block that creates it and the block that spends it
1463 2013-06-04 13:07:01 <petertodd> You could scale that rate based on the total size of the UTXO set, so that the upper limit on that size was fixed. (perhaps 100GiB or something)
1464 2013-06-04 13:08:31 <CodeShark> haven't really looked at freicoin to see how it does it - but just thinking out loud, couldn't there be a rule where the output total of a transaction cannot exceed the input total minus some number?
1465 2013-06-04 13:08:43 veox has joined
1466 2013-06-04 13:08:45 <warren> My dumb idea for market-driven fee competition: basically private companies monitor the blockchain and mempool and publish statistics of what fee per-KB/txo (measured in percentage +/- from the benchmark) results in delays of confirmation. The clients can subscribe to monitoring services that they like/trust and use it as guidance when choosing the % above or below benchmark to voluntarily pay at that moment depending on their appetite for dela
1467 2013-06-04 13:08:45 <warren> ys.
1468 2013-06-04 13:09:20 agnostic98 has joined
1469 2013-06-04 13:09:23 <warren> Miners may want to influence the monitors to lie, thus you can subscribe to competing monitoring services.
1470 2013-06-04 13:09:38 <petertodd> I'm been advocating implementing replace-by-fee rules myself, which make it easy to change your bid to get your tx confirmed after the fact in an efficient way.
1471 2013-06-04 13:09:41 <CodeShark> that number would be calculated based on 1) the size of the output in kb, 2) the distance between the two blocks, 3) the size of the UTXO set at the time it is redeemed
1472 2013-06-04 13:10:02 <petertodd> Good for when a fee-per-kB estimate turns out to be incorrect, or market conditions change unexpectedly.
1473 2013-06-04 13:10:37 <darkskiez> petertodd, doesnt that make double spends very easy
1474 2013-06-04 13:10:39 <petertodd> CodeShark: yup, actually, maybe this isn't so hard to implement. Returning the coins to fees could be done too by allowing miners to spend the transactions in their blocks.
1475 2013-06-04 13:10:49 <petertodd> darkskiez: Yes, but they are already very easy.
1476 2013-06-04 13:11:04 <darkskiez> petertodd, no they are not
1477 2013-06-04 13:11:12 <petertodd> darkskiez: We just made them a lot easier in fact with the IsDust() rule.
1478 2013-06-04 13:11:20 <darkskiez> oh
1479 2013-06-04 13:11:34 <petertodd> darkskiez: And double-spends by broadcasting two simultaneous transactions have always been possible.
1480 2013-06-04 13:11:50 <darkskiez> yes, but they are easy to detect
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1483 2013-06-04 13:12:16 <CodeShark> you can complicate detection by using long dependency chanins
1484 2013-06-04 13:12:19 <CodeShark> *chains
1485 2013-06-04 13:12:36 * warren wonders why there's no limit on that.
1486 2013-06-04 13:12:40 <petertodd> What good does detection do for you? If you can do something, you weren't relying on zero-conf anyway.
1487 2013-06-04 13:13:04 lolcookie__ has joined
1488 2013-06-04 13:13:05 <petertodd> With the one exception that replace-by-fee allows a very nice strategy: the merchant, upon detecting the double-spend, makes their own replacement spending the whole amount to fees.
1489 2013-06-04 13:13:07 veox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1490 2013-06-04 13:13:29 <petertodd> Miners will mine *that* one, and the thief winds up losing their money anyway, greatly disincentivizing the attack in the first place.
1491 2013-06-04 13:13:59 <warren> oh nice
1492 2013-06-04 13:13:59 <petertodd> It needs good child-pays-for-parent support, but I've got a mempool rewrite that provides that too.
1493 2013-06-04 13:14:13 <darkskiez> why would the merchant refuse the money like that?
1494 2013-06-04 13:14:24 <warren> darkskiez: they already lost it if they don't
1495 2013-06-04 13:15:12 <petertodd> warren: What's really neat about that strategy is even if just, say, 10% of miners adopt replace-by-fee, the strategy still works.
1496 2013-06-04 13:15:22 <darkskiez> i think that would allow merchants who ran mining pools
1497 2013-06-04 13:15:35 <petertodd> warren: That 10% works on stopping the thief, and the 90% didn't allow the replacement either way.
1498 2013-06-04 13:15:39 <darkskiez> to do devious things
1499 2013-06-04 13:15:50 <petertodd> darkskiez: Like what?
1500 2013-06-04 13:15:57 <warren> I better sleep
1501 2013-06-04 13:16:06 <warren> TheUni: thanks, and looking forward to the pull request
1502 2013-06-04 13:16:52 <darkskiez> i'm not sure yet, but redirecting a transaction really opens up a bunch of new attack vectors
1503 2013-06-04 13:17:46 <petertodd> Such as?
1504 2013-06-04 13:18:01 <petertodd> Keep in mind, I'm not enabling anything new here.
1505 2013-06-04 13:18:17 <darkskiez> i see
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1508 2013-06-04 13:18:31 <darkskiez> so this is for something thats never entered the block chain
1509 2013-06-04 13:18:36 <petertodd> Exactly
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1512 2013-06-04 13:18:57 <darkskiez> would it impact block chain selection on chain forks?
1513 2013-06-04 13:19:04 <CodeShark> petertodd, but right now, nodes will reject any conflicting transaction and not relay it without comparing fees, right
1514 2013-06-04 13:19:12 <petertodd> CodeShark
1515 2013-06-04 13:19:18 <petertodd> CodeShark: yup
1516 2013-06-04 13:19:30 <petertodd> darkskiez: This has nothing to do with forks.
1517 2013-06-04 13:20:06 <darkskiez> i get what you're saying
1518 2013-06-04 13:20:19 <darkskiez> sounds good
1519 2013-06-04 13:20:35 <CodeShark> if nodes would simply replace a conflicting transaction with another granted that: 1) they both spend the same outputs, 2) they both pay to the same script, 3) the second transaction has a higher fee
1520 2013-06-04 13:20:55 <jgarzik_> hey, it's a CodeShark! :)
1521 2013-06-04 13:21:03 <CodeShark> hey, jgarzik_ :)
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1523 2013-06-04 13:21:30 <darkskiez> where would the higher fee come from if it was the same outputs and same payment
1524 2013-06-04 13:21:36 <jgarzik_> CodeShark, merge window is open. Would love a rebase of some of your commits [if not already done / if nobody has mentioned this yet]
1525 2013-06-04 13:21:39 <petertodd> CodeShark: Yeah, that's another option, but it causes problems because then there are often cases where you can't replace a transaction to change the fee after the fact, like if you don't have another input to provide.
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1527 2013-06-04 13:22:19 <CodeShark> petertodd: there'd have to be at least one change output you could fudge around with
1528 2013-06-04 13:22:46 <petertodd> CodeShark: Right, but we don't want nodes to be able to know which output is change and which isn't.
1529 2013-06-04 13:22:52 <CodeShark> jgarzik_: I'm very much up for merging :)
1530 2013-06-04 13:23:17 <jgarzik_> coolio
1531 2013-06-04 13:23:56 <CodeShark> jgarzik_: what do you need from me?
1532 2013-06-04 13:25:07 <jgarzik_> CodeShark, heh, give me a few hours to answer that question ;p When 0.8.2 was released, the merge window for $Next_Version was opened. We started running through all the pull requests, and there were several of yours that looked worth merging.
1533 2013-06-04 13:25:17 <jgarzik_> CodeShark, so the main thing is rebasing
1534 2013-06-04 13:26:02 <jgarzik_> CodeShark, "rebase everything to latest tree" is the simple answer from my end. After I wade through email, I'll be in a better position to say which pull reqs might be pull-ready once rebased.
1535 2013-06-04 13:26:10 <jgarzik_> (and you probably know which are pull ready too, anyway)
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1545 2013-06-04 13:51:39 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: yea, devrandom did most of the work, but I helped him push it onto bitcoin
1546 2013-06-04 13:52:15 <BlueMatt> sadly we never moved beyond using it for building (its rather easy to let users use it to check sigs too...)
1547 2013-06-04 13:52:18 winterblack has joined
1548 2013-06-04 13:52:42 boomfight has joined
1549 2013-06-04 13:55:15 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: gribble passed your question to me
1550 2013-06-04 13:55:57 <BlueMatt> and?
1551 2013-06-04 13:56:03 <boomfight> hey. Anyone know what is "queue position" in blockchain.info?
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1555 2013-06-04 14:02:07 <sipa> runeks: as of today, the actual bitcoin chain has nnever ever experienced a hard fork
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1558 2013-06-04 14:02:35 <sipa> runeks: there was one on march 11, but that was "rolled back" by switching back to the old chain
1559 2013-06-04 14:02:51 robocoin has joined
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1562 2013-06-04 14:02:59 <runeks> sipa: Right. That's the one I'm referring to.
1563 2013-06-04 14:03:06 <sipa> runeks: and we risk one soon, but one that was announced well in advance
1564 2013-06-04 14:03:23 <sipa> but if two implementations disagree about whether a signature is valid, we're pretty much out of luck
1565 2013-06-04 14:03:32 <sipa> and that may or may not coincide with stealing coins
1566 2013-06-04 14:04:44 <sipa> and i guess i was wrong... the ability to steal coins is likely worse/similar to a hard fork
1567 2013-06-04 14:05:20 <sipa> but in case, the library has to be correct... it cannot in any way be different from OpenSSL or the ECDSA spec
1568 2013-06-04 14:06:51 <sipa> and if OpenSSL also doesn't follow the ECDSA spec, god help us all...
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1570 2013-06-04 14:07:59 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: picocoin would take a bit of work
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1572 2013-06-04 14:08:32 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: it is currently: a complete lib w/ tests that fully verify + incomplete block relay daemon + incomplete SPV client
1573 2013-06-04 14:08:50 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: so you'd have to finish a client
1574 2013-06-04 14:11:02 chorao has joined
1575 2013-06-04 14:11:19 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok well somehow I thought it was farther along towards being an spv client/wallet
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1578 2013-06-04 14:18:06 metabyte_ is now known as metabyte
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1580 2013-06-04 14:19:02 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: once a few more network bits are done, it will work as a watch-only wallet
1581 2013-06-04 14:19:18 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: it's mainly non-bitcoin bits that need completing.
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1583 2013-06-04 14:19:50 <jgarzik_> BlueMatt: The approach was to write everything in the lib, that was needed for a wallet or full node. Test that. (done) Then work on hooking at up into a user interface.
1584 2013-06-04 14:20:15 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1585 2013-06-04 14:20:30 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok
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1590 2013-06-04 14:24:26 <helo> is there a client that has, as its primary transaction creation interface, direct input selection and splitting?
1591 2013-06-04 14:27:11 * Vinnie_win whispers in your ear "goto is bad" and runs off
1592 2013-06-04 14:28:15 <helo> so instead of an aggregate balance wallet (more like a bank account) abstraction, it would be a wallet as collection of discrete amounts (like a bill-fold with variously denominated items that can be spent)
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1597 2013-06-04 14:29:15 <helo> this is just the coin control interface... but has it been considered as a primary interface for a client?
1598 2013-06-04 14:29:55 <jgarzik_> Vinnie_win, hehehe
1599 2013-06-04 14:30:12 random_cat has joined
1600 2013-06-04 14:31:02 d34th has joined
1601 2013-06-04 14:31:07 <jgarzik_> Donald Knuth and Linus Torvalds agree with me, on goto ;-)
1602 2013-06-04 14:31:18 <jgarzik_> screw Dijkstra
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1605 2013-06-04 14:33:00 <Vinnie_win> I'll make a pull request just for you
1606 2013-06-04 14:34:15 <sipa> how about using a C++ data structure in the first place, instead of adding tons of code to wrap legacy code?
1607 2013-06-04 14:34:37 <Vinnie_win> That'd be nice
1608 2013-06-04 14:34:54 EPiSKiNG- has joined
1609 2013-06-04 14:36:02 <Vinnie_win> try to be supportive of whats his name...sparkplug
1610 2013-06-04 14:36:18 Chuky has joined
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1612 2013-06-04 14:36:27 <Vinnie_win> No wait...it's CodeShark
1613 2013-06-04 14:36:27 saulimus has joined
1614 2013-06-04 14:37:15 <CodeShark> lol
1615 2013-06-04 14:37:21 <Vinnie_win> oops *hi*
1616 2013-06-04 14:37:22 <CodeShark> heya, Vinnie
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1624 2013-06-04 14:47:30 <Subo1978> boomfight: where did you seen it?
1625 2013-06-04 14:47:58 <boomfight> Subo1978, 1 hours ago, every pending transactions where in "pending queue 5 hours remaining"
1626 2013-06-04 14:48:12 <boomfight> with a position number
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1628 2013-06-04 14:48:20 <boomfight> but it sudently vanished
1629 2013-06-04 14:48:31 <boomfight> once a new block was mined
1630 2013-06-04 14:49:11 <boomfight> Subo1978, it was right after this block : http://blockchain.info/block-height/239688 (strange block with only 3 txs?)
1631 2013-06-04 14:49:47 <boomfight> even though it was mined 15min after the previous one
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1634 2013-06-04 14:52:40 <Subo1978> boomfight: ich denke es geht darum wann eine Transaktion verifizert wird. Hier gibt es ja verschiedene Faktoren wie zum Beispiel Gebühren , GröÃe, Alter der Münzen und so weiter.
1635 2013-06-04 14:52:52 <Subo1978> boomfight: I think it comes when a transaction is verifizert. Here there are various factors such as fees, size and age of the coin and so on.
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1640 2013-06-04 15:04:50 <jgarzik_> Has the chain size-forked yet?
1641 2013-06-04 15:04:54 <jgarzik_> 0.7 nodes still on the air?
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1646 2013-06-04 15:10:20 <boomfight> jgarzik_ I'm wondering the same thing
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1659 2013-06-04 15:29:12 <Subo1978> is the only version of the pool's and solo Miner important or even that of the client?
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1678 2013-06-04 15:56:05 <sipa> jgarzik_: no fork yet
1679 2013-06-04 15:56:47 <jgarzik_> ok
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1685 2013-06-04 16:22:54 <jeremias_> http://blockexplorer.com/address/13dWFCkmftx6jCQHjidEDgMjn1j8Lmrwun
1686 2013-06-04 16:23:00 <jeremias_> https://blockchain.info/address/13dWFCkmftx6jCQHjidEDgMjn1j8Lmrwun
1687 2013-06-04 16:23:18 <jeremias_> any insight, why the total received amount is different on block explorer/blockchain.info?
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1693 2013-06-04 16:31:10 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik_, heh
1694 2013-06-04 16:31:17 <phantomcircuit> there are problems with that code
1695 2013-06-04 16:31:21 <phantomcircuit> goto is not one of them
1696 2013-06-04 16:31:53 <phantomcircuit> im surprised nobody has piped up and complained that it's vaguely dangerous (it isn't)
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1713 2013-06-04 16:49:46 <CodeShark> argh! ever since I did pull request 2154, more global flags have been added in main.cpp and used in other source files
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1715 2013-06-04 16:49:56 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, i've had bfgminer running for about 8 hours now on testnet and have yet to generate a block
1716 2013-06-04 16:49:58 <phantomcircuit> thoughts?
1717 2013-06-04 16:49:58 <CodeShark> THE WHOLE POINT IS TO NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER DO SUCH THINGS
1718 2013-06-04 16:50:50 <sipa> which ones?
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1720 2013-06-04 16:51:28 <CodeShark> fImporting, fReindex
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1722 2013-06-04 16:52:44 <sipa> well, as soon as an abstraction exists in which to put them, they will
1723 2013-06-04 16:53:17 <sipa> but without a reorganisation that adds such abstractions, it's not particularly clean to have some variables global and other non-global, when they are related
1724 2013-06-04 16:53:23 <sipa> it's all or nothing
1725 2013-06-04 16:54:03 <CodeShark> if nothing else, they could be externed from some shared source file in both main and net
1726 2013-06-04 16:54:15 <CodeShark> so that net.cpp doesn't need to include main.h
1727 2013-06-04 16:54:39 <CodeShark> although I would prefer an even better abstraction
1728 2013-06-04 16:54:49 <CodeShark> but at least this would remove net's dependence on main
1729 2013-06-04 16:54:50 <sipa> separating them is still worse
1730 2013-06-04 16:54:57 veox has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1731 2013-06-04 16:55:17 <sipa> (no offence, i'm very very very much in favor of removing globals, but it must be done consistently)
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1734 2013-06-04 16:57:43 <CodeShark> or expose a function in net which sets a variable with file scope in net
1735 2013-06-04 16:57:49 <CodeShark> and call it from main
1736 2013-06-04 16:58:22 <CodeShark> not super pretty either, but completely avoids net's having to include main.h
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1742 2013-06-04 17:03:11 <CodeShark> including main.h should be avoided at practically all costs - you should be required to have an extremely good reason to include main.h in any source file
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1747 2013-06-04 17:07:13 <CodeShark> almost done with a rebase of 2154
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1749 2013-06-04 17:09:07 <phantomcircuit> mempool transaction missing input
1750 2013-06-04 17:09:08 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1751 2013-06-04 17:09:33 <CodeShark> finished rebase: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2154
1752 2013-06-04 17:09:48 <CodeShark> it builds but haven't tried running it
1753 2013-06-04 17:09:51 <phantomcircuit> not good when something that's commented as "// This should never happen; all transactions in the memory"
1754 2013-06-04 17:09:54 <TheLordOfTime> does the bitcoin-qt program has a dependency on the boost libraries?
1755 2013-06-04 17:09:55 <phantomcircuit> is triggered
1756 2013-06-04 17:10:01 <TheLordOfTime> (and the corresponding dev headers for building)
1757 2013-06-04 17:10:06 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, yes
1758 2013-06-04 17:10:07 <CodeShark> TheLordOfTime: yes
1759 2013-06-04 17:10:12 <TheLordOfTime> hmm...
1760 2013-06-04 17:10:23 <TheLordOfTime> then something broke somewhere, ld's not detecting the libraries during build time
1761 2013-06-04 17:10:39 * TheLordOfTime shrugs and goes back to beating the packages on his system.
1762 2013-06-04 17:10:41 <Kireji> is there a senior member of the bitcoin developer community that can be in SF June 18 to speak on a VLAB panel about virtual currencies? http://www.vlab.org/article.html?aid=469 currently the ONLY panelist listed is OpenCoin/Ripple CEO Larsen. I'm an advisor to this group (VLAB) and only just now realized this happened.
1763 2013-06-04 17:10:45 <phantomcircuit> you sure you have the specific boost library installed?
1764 2013-06-04 17:11:21 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: assuming that on Debian/Ubuntu libboost-all-dev gets every boost library, it should
1765 2013-06-04 17:11:30 * TheLordOfTime is going to poke up the packages to make sure
1766 2013-06-04 17:11:32 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, it doesn't
1767 2013-06-04 17:11:33 <phantomcircuit> lol
1768 2013-06-04 17:11:44 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: i'll need to find package names then
1769 2013-06-04 17:11:48 <TheLordOfTime> and submit a patch to the metapackage
1770 2013-06-04 17:12:00 <phantomcircuit> libboost-system-dev libboost-filesystem-dev
1771 2013-06-04 17:12:01 <phantomcircuit> iirc
1772 2013-06-04 17:12:06 <phantomcircuit> check dpkg -l to verify
1773 2013-06-04 17:12:37 <TheLordOfTime> i will in a moment
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1775 2013-06-04 17:12:42 <TheLordOfTime> got to finish kicking something into action
1776 2013-06-04 17:12:50 <phantomcircuit> Kireji, that's not gonna be a very interesting panel
1777 2013-06-04 17:13:20 <phantomcircuit> Kireji, riddle me this, how many people have bought tickets
1778 2013-06-04 17:14:42 <Kireji> phantomcircuit: I don't know, but typically all of the VLAB events sell out, 200-300 people
1779 2013-06-04 17:15:07 <Kireji> phantomcircuit: I can find out, they have been switching venues recently, so will depend on the venue how many people can fit
1780 2013-06-04 17:16:30 <phantomcircuit> Kireji, full disclosure if i come it will be with flyers explaining why ripple is a scam
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1782 2013-06-04 17:16:45 <phantomcircuit> although that might make for a more interesting panel
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1784 2013-06-04 17:17:21 <phantomcircuit> so somehow i have managed to create transactions which are missing their inputs
1785 2013-06-04 17:17:50 <phantomcircuit> which is in turn why i haven't been able to generate a block
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1802 2013-06-04 17:33:57 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: libboost-filesystem-dev is already the newest version.; libboost-system-dev is already the newest version.
1803 2013-06-04 17:34:01 <TheLordOfTime> maybe ld's just broken
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1805 2013-06-04 17:35:11 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: i'm running ldconfig just in case
1806 2013-06-04 17:35:14 <TheLordOfTime> to make sure it relinks everything
1807 2013-06-04 17:35:34 <sipa> Kireji: gmaxwell lives nearby, but i'm not sure how much he likes speaking
1808 2013-06-04 17:35:38 <phantomcircuit> i had an issue with that recently
1809 2013-06-04 17:35:46 <phantomcircuit> but i cant remember how i solved it
1810 2013-06-04 17:35:56 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: i think i might've fixed it, let's see.. :P
1811 2013-06-04 17:36:18 <TheLordOfTime> bleh still broke
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1813 2013-06-04 17:36:43 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i was getting an error saying mempool transactions were missing inputs
1814 2013-06-04 17:36:56 <jgarzik_> a sadly familiar error :/
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1816 2013-06-04 17:37:04 <phantomcircuit> these are transactions which were generated locallly
1817 2013-06-04 17:37:19 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, would love to debug that further
1818 2013-06-04 17:37:28 <phantomcircuit> i disabled the GetBalance check but that shouldn't matter
1819 2013-06-04 17:37:32 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, it's a mysterious, persistant bug that wants fixing
1820 2013-06-04 17:37:39 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, can you reproduce reliably?
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1822 2013-06-04 17:37:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the error disappeared when i reindexed and set txindex=1
1823 2013-06-04 17:37:55 <jgarzik> hrm
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1825 2013-06-04 17:38:33 <phantomcircuit> and all of a sudden the transaction which was missing is returned by getrawtransaction
1826 2013-06-04 17:38:42 <phantomcircuit> (if it was in the mempool it would also be available)
1827 2013-06-04 17:38:58 <CodeShark> jgarzik: pull request 2154 has been rebased (but not tested)
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1829 2013-06-04 17:39:21 <phantomcircuit> 2013-06-04 17:05:17 AddToWallet 17355729c64d317a8d4c398c7f79426ce56152b8a604da92731edae19597e619
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1832 2013-06-04 17:40:04 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i was calling killall -9 bitcoind while CreateTransaction was running while debugging IsConfirmed
1833 2013-06-04 17:40:32 <phantomcircuit> im guessing there's some point at which the generated transaction is in wallet.dat but dependent transactions are not
1834 2013-06-04 17:41:01 <phantomcircuit> or possibly i broke IsConfirmed and dependent transactions are only included if !IsConfirmed
1835 2013-06-04 17:41:04 * phantomcircuit goes to look
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1838 2013-06-04 17:42:57 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, yup
1839 2013-06-04 17:43:16 <phantomcircuit> CommitTransaction adds the transaction to commit and then adds it's dependents
1840 2013-06-04 17:43:34 <phantomcircuit> if bitcoind dies in between them wallet.dat is missing the dependent transactions
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1842 2013-06-04 17:44:18 <sipa> CodeShark: hmm, CBlock is not moved to core?
1843 2013-06-04 17:44:19 <phantomcircuit> im thinking that should be re arranged as, include dependent transaction in wallet.dat, include transction in wallet.dat, mark inputs as spent
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1845 2013-06-04 17:44:26 * jgarzik kicks OSX
1846 2013-06-04 17:44:29 <phantomcircuit> lol
1847 2013-06-04 17:44:33 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, did you miss that?
1848 2013-06-04 17:44:53 <Habbie> probably
1849 2013-06-04 17:44:53 <phantomcircuit> CommitTransaction has an operations ordering issue
1850 2013-06-04 17:45:07 <phantomcircuit> Habbie, well mostly im wondering which part he missed :)
1851 2013-06-04 17:45:21 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, what is the ordering issue?
1852 2013-06-04 17:46:10 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the transaction to commit is put in wallet.dat and then the dependent transactions are added/marked as spent
1853 2013-06-04 17:46:25 <phantomcircuit> so if bitcoind died in between some of them will be missing from wallet.dat
1854 2013-06-04 17:46:28 <phantomcircuit> <phantomcircuit> im thinking that should be re arranged as, include dependent transaction in wallet.dat, include transction in wallet.dat, mark inputs as spent
1855 2013-06-04 17:46:55 <phantomcircuit> but i haven't looked at this part of the codebase anywhere near enough to be confident in actually making that change
1856 2013-06-04 17:47:06 * phantomcircuit looks at sipa
1857 2013-06-04 17:47:07 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, Proposed order seems reasonable at first glance, but I cannot claim to be an expert on that area of code
1858 2013-06-04 17:47:14 <jgarzik> ;p
1859 2013-06-04 17:47:57 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the problem i could see happening there is accidentally double spending
1860 2013-06-04 17:48:12 <phantomcircuit> if the mark inputs as spent step isn't completed
1861 2013-06-04 17:48:57 <phantomcircuit> the only way i can think of to solve that is to add a flag to the primary transaction so that operation can be replayed when the transactions are loaded
1862 2013-06-04 17:49:17 <phantomcircuit> (ok well you could also just run MarkSpent for all the transactions on load but that's uh...)
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1864 2013-06-04 17:49:40 <phantomcircuit> does bdb support any kind of transactions that could solve this?
1865 2013-06-04 17:49:59 <phantomcircuit> again black magic that is bdb
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1871 2013-06-04 17:52:27 <phantomcircuit> shrug
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1873 2013-06-04 17:52:39 <phantomcircuit> i'll open an issue for it and proceed to see what happens
1874 2013-06-04 17:52:54 <phantomcircuit> if it's anything like my recent pull request
1875 2013-06-04 17:53:00 <phantomcircuit> i expect pedantry and nonsense
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1880 2013-06-04 17:56:47 <CodeShark> sipa: it should be moved to core - but I hadn't gotten completely to that when I last had worked on this
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1882 2013-06-04 17:57:46 <sipa> ok
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1884 2013-06-04 17:58:29 <CodeShark> it will require getting rid of WriteToDisk, ReadFromDisk, etc... - moving that over to another abstraction that handles block persistence
1885 2013-06-04 17:58:45 <CodeShark> and of course, getting rid of all the block tree management stuff
1886 2013-06-04 17:58:50 <CodeShark> moving that over to another abstraction
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1889 2013-06-04 17:59:10 <CodeShark> ConnectBlock, CheckBlock, etc...
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1892 2013-06-04 18:00:10 <CodeShark> core.h should just handle core data structure serialization/deserialization
1893 2013-06-04 18:00:10 <jgarzik> CodeShark, what was that pull req again? My xchat and web history (from 2 seconds ago) both hate me.
1894 2013-06-04 18:00:14 <sipa> 2154
1895 2013-06-04 18:00:26 <sipa> (why do i know that by heart?)
1896 2013-06-04 18:00:36 <CodeShark> hehe
1897 2013-06-04 18:01:44 <CodeShark> core.h/core.cpp should not have any code pertaining to network, persistence, caching, or validation
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2107 2013-06-04 18:35:00 <phantomcircuit> >.>
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2156 2013-06-04 18:46:24 <ecoloco> Hello. Somebody send me bitcoin, and blockchain says this: 14 minutes (queue position 518) confirmed warnings, the transaction fee is less than recommended.
2157 2013-06-04 18:46:27 <ecoloco> what does this mean?
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2218 2013-06-04 18:55:31 <Ry4an> it means they should have included a transaction fee, and without it you might have to wait a while.
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2220 2013-06-04 18:55:37 <Ry4an> link to the tx?
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2228 2013-06-04 18:56:50 <michagogo> ecoloco: What's the transaction id?
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2578 2013-06-04 19:33:50 <phantomcircuit_> heh
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2581 2013-06-04 19:34:03 <phantomcircuit_> it appears that loading bitcoind is largely a question of time to allocate memory
2582 2013-06-04 19:34:08 <phantomcircuit_> (with a huge wallet)
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2623 2013-06-04 19:48:10 <ecoloco> I will pay a fee of 0.1098 bitcoin. This is my first "sent transaction". Should I pay a fee?
2624 2013-06-04 19:49:41 <Cylta> usual fee is 0.0005 per kb. are you planning to pay 0.1 as a fee?
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2626 2013-06-04 19:49:52 <ecoloco> no
2627 2013-06-04 19:50:21 <Cylta> ok. then - yes. you have to pay a fee, especially for small transaction. otherwise it may take up to a week to confirm a transfer.
2628 2013-06-04 19:50:41 <Cylta> in theory it could be never completed.
2629 2013-06-04 19:50:58 <Cylta> in practice - 1-2 days
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2633 2013-06-04 19:53:04 <sipa_> ecoloco: did you have a large amount of very small transactions sent to you?
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2635 2013-06-04 19:53:58 <ecoloco> sipa_: why?
2636 2013-06-04 19:54:17 <sipa_> because that would explain why it requires a huge fee
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2652 2013-06-04 20:06:03 <dansmith_btc> Hi, I successfully created and signed a rawtx funding a regular "1" BTC address, but when I try with exactly the same input and scriptPubkey to fund a multisig "3" address, signrawtransaction won't sign. I'm baffled, I thought signrawtransaction cares only about inputs, not the receiving address.
2653 2013-06-04 20:06:29 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2654 2013-06-04 20:08:27 <dansmith_btc> Actually when it succeded, the receiving address was an address in my wallet. BUt again, why does a receiving address play a role here?
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2656 2013-06-04 20:10:05 <sipa_> that seems very strange
2657 2013-06-04 20:10:24 <dansmith_btc> actuall "3" address here is irrelevant, I tried with another "1" address - it failed as well
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2661 2013-06-04 20:11:40 <dansmith_btc> I thought that maybe there is some memory cache of signedrawtx, so I restarted bitcoin-qt, to no avail - it signed only when the receiving address is one which is already in the wallet.
2662 2013-06-04 20:12:48 <sipa_> and if you try again with the same output which worked?
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2665 2013-06-04 20:14:06 <dansmith_btc> Well, I've always been trying with one and the same output
2666 2013-06-04 20:15:11 <sipa_> in what way does it fail, by the way?
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2670 2013-06-04 20:15:52 <dansmith_btc> sipa_, "complete" : false
2671 2013-06-04 20:15:58 <sipa_> that's expected
2672 2013-06-04 20:16:07 <sipa_> wait
2673 2013-06-04 20:16:13 <sipa_> the output shouldn't matter
2674 2013-06-04 20:16:28 <sipa_> but complete:false just means there is an input it can't sign
2675 2013-06-04 20:16:35 <dansmith_btc> and hex output == hex input
2676 2013-06-04 20:16:52 <sipa_> so there are no inputs it can sign
2677 2013-06-04 20:17:04 <sipa_> but still the output shouldn't matter...
2678 2013-06-04 20:17:22 <dansmith_btc> But it signed them when there was a different receiving address
2679 2013-06-04 20:17:37 <sipa_> in the inputs or in the outputs?
2680 2013-06-04 20:17:54 <sipa_> you said the only difference was the outputs... that shouldn't
2681 2013-06-04 20:17:58 <sipa_> *be
2682 2013-06-04 20:18:01 <dansmith_btc> I mean receiving address in createrawtransaction's last part
2683 2013-06-04 20:18:40 <sipa_> did you send the transaction you created before?
2684 2013-06-04 20:18:51 Jackneill has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2686 2013-06-04 20:19:20 <dansmith_btc> no haven't sent anything, I'm using unspent inputs and bitcoin-qt in UNsynced an offline
2687 2013-06-04 20:19:31 <dansmith_btc> Let me break down again what I'm doing
2688 2013-06-04 20:19:32 Ry4an_ is now known as Ry4an
2689 2013-06-04 20:20:14 <sipa_> can you paste a log of the commands you tried?
2690 2013-06-04 20:20:18 <sipa_> on a paste site
2691 2013-06-04 20:20:26 <dansmith_btc> OK
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2695 2013-06-04 20:25:09 * sipa_ afk
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2699 2013-06-04 20:27:10 <dansmith_btc> sipa_, what I just witnessed is crazy. A minute ago it return complete:false, but now the same command returned complete:true
2700 2013-06-04 20:27:25 <dansmith_btc> This is an offline UNsynced bitcoin-qt 0.8.2
2701 2013-06-04 20:27:31 pierre` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2702 2013-06-04 20:27:44 <dansmith_btc> Do you want to see the console log?
2703 2013-06-04 20:28:15 <sipa_> well i wonder how it works at all, signrawtransaction needs to know the inputs of the transaction being signed
2704 2013-06-04 20:28:20 <sipa_> which means it needs to be synced...
2705 2013-06-04 20:28:36 <sipa_> anyway, i'm off
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2731 2013-06-04 20:33:53 <dansmith_btc> pastie.org doesn't do word wrap which makes it difficult for long hex strings
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2735 2013-06-04 20:34:26 <tumak> sipa_: lame question (i'm not too deep familiar with the code), to which degree is secp256k1_fe_* in https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1/ complete?
2736 2013-06-04 20:35:09 <tumak> if i understand correctly there is everything in place for ec in secp256k1 prime field using just those routines, or do i need something else?
2737 2013-06-04 20:35:29 agath has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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2739 2013-06-04 20:35:41 <diki> woah, 50btc had 4 consecutive blocks
2740 2013-06-04 20:35:45 wamatt has joined
2741 2013-06-04 20:35:51 <diki> tremendous luck
2742 2013-06-04 20:36:18 LiCeUser7 is now known as EvilPete
2743 2013-06-04 20:36:22 <arij> whats their sped
2744 2013-06-04 20:36:23 <arij> speed
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2750 2013-06-04 20:37:26 <grau> !seen sipa
2751 2013-06-04 20:37:27 twmz__ has joined
2752 2013-06-04 20:37:27 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 hours, 36 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <sipa> (why do i know that by heart?)
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2801 2013-06-04 20:56:01 <cjsw3> is bitcoind 0.8.2 considered stable for production now?
2802 2013-06-04 20:56:55 <Ry4an> cjsw3: more so than any version before it anyway. :)
2803 2013-06-04 20:57:06 <Ry4an> it's still a "beta" after all.
2804 2013-06-04 20:57:12 <diki> till 0.8.3 at least :Ð
2805 2013-06-04 20:57:15 <diki> :D
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2808 2013-06-04 20:58:58 <cjsw3> haha yeah
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2811 2013-06-04 20:59:21 <michagogo> cjsw3: Yeah, it's been tagged as final
2812 2013-06-04 20:59:22 <cjsw3> 0.8.1 had been very stable for us
2813 2013-06-04 20:59:28 <cjsw3> thanks
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2816 2013-06-04 21:00:01 <cjsw3> i'll upgrade now
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2844 2013-06-04 21:22:00 <skane> i think there's a new memory issue. bitcoind was using 185MB up until the last week sometime and now it uses 385MB. at latest git version now
2845 2013-06-04 21:22:38 root2_ is now known as root2
2846 2013-06-04 21:24:14 <BlueMatt> can you profile it?
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2848 2013-06-04 21:26:13 <skane> beyond my abilities
2849 2013-06-04 21:26:17 <gmaxwell> forget profiling, it if uses it right away just bitsect.
2850 2013-06-04 21:26:21 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2851 2013-06-04 21:26:25 <gmaxwell> er bisect.
2852 2013-06-04 21:26:54 <skane> that would require checking out different versions, recompiling and running bitcoind?
2853 2013-06-04 21:27:44 resinate has quit (Quit: resinate)
2854 2013-06-04 21:27:55 <skane> would git reflog help to narrow down?
2855 2013-06-04 21:27:55 <gmaxwell> skane: are you compiling from git?
2856 2013-06-04 21:27:59 <skane> yes
2857 2013-06-04 21:28:00 <BlueMatt> git does it automagically
2858 2013-06-04 21:28:03 <BlueMatt> git bisect start
2859 2013-06-04 21:28:05 <gmaxwell> skane: there is a git command to do this for you
2860 2013-06-04 21:28:08 <BlueMatt> git bisect bad HEAD
2861 2013-06-04 21:28:16 <skane> yeah, but i'd have to recompile every version
2862 2013-06-04 21:28:16 <BlueMatt> git bisect good SOMETHING
2863 2013-06-04 21:28:19 <skane> my machine is puny
2864 2013-06-04 21:28:25 <kfreds> Hello internet people! Anyone here going to OHM2013?
2865 2013-06-04 21:28:27 <BlueMatt> then it will automagically do a binary search
2866 2013-06-04 21:28:37 <gmaxwell> skane: well it should only recompile the parts that change.
2867 2013-06-04 21:28:43 <skane> oh
2868 2013-06-04 21:28:56 <gmaxwell> skane: in any case it only has to check log2(versions) on average or so.
2869 2013-06-04 21:29:00 <skane> i heard git reflog shows the version you pulled
2870 2013-06-04 21:29:33 <skane> so maybe i could use that to find last version it worked for me
2871 2013-06-04 21:30:05 <skane> and is there way to avoid long bitcoind startup?
2872 2013-06-04 21:30:16 porqui is now known as porquilho
2873 2013-06-04 21:30:27 <skane> if i'm just checking for memory usage, that might be the longest part of it
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2882 2013-06-04 21:38:55 <warren> sipa_: around?
2883 2013-06-04 21:40:15 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2884 2013-06-04 21:41:58 <phantomcircuit> skeledrew, are you sync'd or still loading blocks?
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2896 2013-06-04 22:02:40 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #344: ABORTED in 5 days 4 hr: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/344/
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2964 2013-06-04 23:11:15 <warren> petertodd: ping
2965 2013-06-04 23:11:50 tcatm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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2968 2013-06-04 23:12:49 <TheUni> sipa_: ping
2969 2013-06-04 23:13:05 <warren> TheUni: oh hey, did you have a chance to figure it out?
2970 2013-06-04 23:13:14 <TheUni> figure what out?
2971 2013-06-04 23:13:27 <warren> TheUni: you said wait 12h for a pull request
2972 2013-06-04 23:13:39 <TheUni> oh. that's why i just pinged sipa :)
2973 2013-06-04 23:13:49 <warren> ok. I'm working on entirely different issues for now.
2974 2013-06-04 23:13:52 Maxvalor has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2975 2013-06-04 23:13:53 <TheUni> my 2nd pr depends on my first. it'd make my life much easier to get the first merged so i can rebase on top of it
2976 2013-06-04 23:14:00 xenesis has joined
2977 2013-06-04 23:14:21 <warren> you fixing ./configure and pushing directly to sipa?
2978 2013-06-04 23:14:54 <TheUni> oh, i think we're talking about different things
2979 2013-06-04 23:15:32 <warren> oh. were you still looking at my broken commit from yesterday?
2980 2013-06-04 23:15:34 <TheUni> warren: when i said wait 12h, i meant that i'm PRing an autotools overhaul for the entire project. it'd make your stuff easier to plug in
2981 2013-06-04 23:15:44 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2982 2013-06-04 23:15:45 <warren> oh
2983 2013-06-04 23:15:50 <TheUni> i hope i didn't lead you to believe i was rewriting your configure?
2984 2013-06-04 23:16:07 porquilho has quit ()
2985 2013-06-04 23:16:13 <warren> will secp256k1 be tightly integrated into bitcoin with that?
2986 2013-06-04 23:16:21 roconnor_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2987 2013-06-04 23:16:29 <TheUni> can be, or not. whatever you prefer
2988 2013-06-04 23:16:38 <warren> whatever sipa prefers
2989 2013-06-04 23:16:49 xenesis has quit (Client Quit)
2990 2013-06-04 23:16:58 <TheUni> maybe an --enable-secp256k1 initially?
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2995 2013-06-04 23:20:19 <TheUni> warren: in the meantime, is there something you needed help with?
2996 2013-06-04 23:20:33 <TheUni> afaik you just needed to reverse your ordering in a few places?
2997 2013-06-04 23:20:36 flykoko has joined
2998 2013-06-04 23:21:09 <warren> yeah, already figured that out
2999 2013-06-04 23:21:18 gonffen is now known as gonffen_
3000 2013-06-04 23:21:18 <warren> it sounded like you were just going to push a fix
3001 2013-06-04 23:21:30 <warren> but it sounds like you have a bigger goal
3002 2013-06-04 23:21:43 gonffen_ is now known as gonffen
3003 2013-06-04 23:22:07 <warren> TheUni: his current code removes openssl EC entirely, I suppose people want to be able to switch at build time.
3004 2013-06-04 23:22:32 <TheUni> warren: it removes the need for the entire openssl dependency?
3005 2013-06-04 23:22:41 <warren> TheUni: not entirely yet
3006 2013-06-04 23:23:21 xenesis has quit (Quit: xenesis)
3007 2013-06-04 23:23:31 <TheUni> warren: shouldn't it be added in paralell with a runtime switcher, for easier unit-testing?
3008 2013-06-04 23:23:36 <TheUni> *parallel
3009 2013-06-04 23:25:23 flykoko has quit (2!~kvirc@ool-45764343.dyn.optonline.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3011 2013-06-04 23:26:03 <warren> TheUni: that's up to sipa, sounds like not a good idea though, IMHO.
3012 2013-06-04 23:26:26 <TheUni> warren: by runtime i didn't mean exposed to the user in any way, i just meant both compiled in
3013 2013-06-04 23:26:52 <warren> that's sipa's decision
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3020 2013-06-04 23:35:26 <petertodd> warren: pong
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3026 2013-06-04 23:46:00 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
3027 2013-06-04 23:46:29 danieldaniel has joined
3028 2013-06-04 23:46:46 <danieldaniel> Do you guys want me to bring my tip bot in here?
3029 2013-06-04 23:47:44 OTCTipBot has joined
3030 2013-06-04 23:47:50 <Luke-Jr> danieldaniel: elaborate
3031 2013-06-04 23:47:54 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: don't
3032 2013-06-04 23:47:55 <danieldaniel> Luke-Jr: Instructions at http://pastebin.com/VLdMzHQj
3033 2013-06-04 23:48:07 <TheLordOfTime> it's a way dandan's using to try and tempt people to have satoshis
3034 2013-06-04 23:48:11 <danieldaniel> Exactly!
3035 2013-06-04 23:48:14 <TheLordOfTime> he gets 2% of everything, so...
3036 2013-06-04 23:48:15 <TheLordOfTime> let's not.
3037 2013-06-04 23:48:20 <danieldaniel> TheLordOfTime: 1% of everything
3038 2013-06-04 23:48:22 <Luke-Jr> danieldaniel: requiring cloaks is stupid
3039 2013-06-04 23:48:29 <danieldaniel> Luke-Jr: I don't require cloaks
3040 2013-06-04 23:48:33 <danieldaniel> I recommend themm
3041 2013-06-04 23:48:36 <Luke-Jr> â¦
3042 2013-06-04 23:48:38 <danieldaniel> Otherwise anyone can use your nick
3043 2013-06-04 23:48:41 <Luke-Jr> you effecitvely require them
3044 2013-06-04 23:48:42 bitnumus has joined
3045 2013-06-04 23:48:57 <Luke-Jr> that's not what your docs say
3046 2013-06-04 23:49:09 <danieldaniel> (IE: make sure you have your cloak on).
3047 2013-06-04 23:49:19 <TheLordOfTime> danieldaniel: did you fail to write your docs correctly AGAIN?
3048 2013-06-04 23:49:19 <danieldaniel> I didn't say you have to have one, that means if you have one have it on
3049 2013-06-04 23:49:22 <Luke-Jr> without cloaks, people will have hostnames changing
3050 2013-06-04 23:49:26 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3051 2013-06-04 23:49:36 <danieldaniel> Luke-Jr: Yeah, get a cloak, then!
3052 2013-06-04 23:49:48 <danieldaniel> Why wouldn't anyone have a cloak?
3053 2013-06-04 23:49:49 <Luke-Jr> danieldaniel: cloaks are lame
3054 2013-06-04 23:49:56 <danieldaniel> (says the guy who has a cloak)
3055 2013-06-04 23:49:59 <Luke-Jr> because IPs are nicer
3056 2013-06-04 23:50:08 <Luke-Jr> I only have a cloak cuz trolls forced me to
3057 2013-06-04 23:50:22 <Luke-Jr> s/trolls/scriptkiddies/
3058 2013-06-04 23:50:29 <danieldaniel> Luke-Jr: Same thing
3059 2013-06-04 23:50:47 <danieldaniel> Luke-Jr: I'll tip you 10 satoshi's if you make an account
3060 2013-06-04 23:51:03 <danieldaniel> Or are you going to boycott it?
3061 2013-06-04 23:51:11 <Luke-Jr> danieldaniel: you really think 10 satoshis are worth my time to type .new?
3062 2013-06-04 23:51:12 <warren> Luke-Jr: come on, this is not a reasonable argument.
3063 2013-06-04 23:51:12 <Luke-Jr> oh waitâ¦
3064 2013-06-04 23:51:27 <Luke-Jr> warren: onus is on him to make an argument for bad design
3065 2013-06-04 23:51:30 <warren> cloaks are reasonable to have
3066 2013-06-04 23:51:51 <warren> the rest of the design I have no comment
3067 2013-06-04 23:51:53 <Luke-Jr> nickserv login is in the same /whois that gives you hostname
3068 2013-06-04 23:52:14 <warren> oh, requiring nickserv login would make sense
3069 2013-06-04 23:52:29 <danieldaniel> Only reason I didn't do that is because I don't know how to check nickserv logins
3070 2013-06-04 23:52:38 <danieldaniel> How do you do that?
3071 2013-06-04 23:52:40 <Luke-Jr> danieldaniel: the same way you check hostname
3072 2013-06-04 23:53:02 <warren> danieldaniel: I still wouldn't use your bot since I don't know you.
3073 2013-06-04 23:53:11 <danieldaniel> warren: Meh, I have 180-ish ratings in otc
3074 2013-06-04 23:53:15 <danieldaniel> It was made for otc, anyways
3075 2013-06-04 23:53:20 <danieldaniel> i just thought I'd bring it in here
3076 2013-06-04 23:53:34 <danieldaniel> See how long it takes one of you to steal all the btc
3077 2013-06-04 23:54:59 <danieldaniel> .part #bitcoin-dev
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