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254 2013-06-18 06:26:24 <kuzetsa> I discovered Vm0wd2QyU purely by accident.., and I'm not the first. Now I find myself wondering if base58 has a similar fixed point or not --> http://fmota.eu/blog/base64-fixed-point.html
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293 2013-06-18 07:47:19 <TradeFortress> It looks like I have fallen victim to a successful double spend attack.
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295 2013-06-18 07:47:46 <TradeFortress> Where can I see reorgs?
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298 2013-06-18 07:49:56 <sturles> blockchain.info
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301 2013-06-18 07:51:14 <TradeFortress> OK, so what happened was that getbalance("account", 0) [for visual purposes] was returning the correct amount
302 2013-06-18 07:51:22 <TradeFortress> I credit balances when it reaches 3 confirmations.
303 2013-06-18 07:51:53 <TradeFortress> But soon, getbalance("account", 0) becomes 0.0001 even through I haven't moved or sent anything.
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305 2013-06-18 07:54:20 <sturles> Did you save the txid?
306 2013-06-18 07:54:25 <sipa> that seems strange
307 2013-06-18 07:54:44 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
308 2013-06-18 07:54:45 <sipa> what does listtransactions say?
309 2013-06-18 07:55:07 <TradeFortress> Yes, the txid for the 0.19 one was https://blockchain.info/tx/6ced43ac22064b47ad145c8f257fadeebad8b0a0c1b4b997baf1bf11e05d3dca
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311 2013-06-18 07:59:25 <sturles> This was included in block 242106 and spent in block 242123.
312 2013-06-18 07:59:30 <sturles> Check listtransactions-
313 2013-06-18 08:00:17 <TradeFortress> In listtransactions, I see the tx, along with a 0.001 one to another address belonging to this account.
314 2013-06-18 08:00:45 <TradeFortress> My PHP code the executed and has swept the funds to main, and is supposed to have credited the user with 0.19 BTC. However, that wasnt credited.
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317 2013-06-18 08:02:19 <TradeFortress> Nothing in error logs.
318 2013-06-18 08:02:43 <sturles> Sounds like a bug in your code. Nothing like a double spend.
319 2013-06-18 08:02:49 <sturles> The coins are there.
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322 2013-06-18 08:03:57 <TradeFortress> Mind taking a quick look at my PHP code? http://pastebin.com/7F4ZbwtM
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327 2013-06-18 08:08:41 <TradeFortress> I would really apperciate it if you could take a look and tell me if there is a fault with the code.
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331 2013-06-18 08:16:58 <sturles> Perhaps something went wrong with your sql queries? I don't know how you would notice that in your logs.
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335 2013-06-18 08:22:18 <melvster> kuzetsa: the fixed point in base64 is easy to see because 64 is a factor of 128, since 128 and 29 are coprime, it's more difficult to tell if there's a fixed point in bitcoin's base58 encoding, I suspect there is not
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343 2013-06-18 08:26:36 <warren> https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?topic=4471.msg32120#msg32120 let me know if you think I'm too harsh.
344 2013-06-18 08:26:39 <warren> oops
345 2013-06-18 08:26:45 <warren> wrong channel, sorry =(
346 2013-06-18 08:27:13 <warren> that was a serious blunder of pasting
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371 2013-06-18 09:12:45 <Nothing4You> putting "testnet=1" in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf on mac should get bitcoin-qt launching in testnet mode, right?
372 2013-06-18 09:15:00 <BlueMatt> in theory, yes
373 2013-06-18 09:16:17 <Nothing4You> friend of mine, using a mac, tried putting that in his bitcoin.conf. he's using v0.8.2-beta. after second launch or so he says there were additional lines, e.g. one saying "{\fonttbl\f0\fmodern\fcharset0 Courier;}"
374 2013-06-18 09:16:27 <Nothing4You> and help â debug â testnet isn't checked
375 2013-06-18 09:17:02 <BlueMatt> did he file a bug report?
376 2013-06-18 09:17:29 <kinlo> eh
377 2013-06-18 09:17:31 <Nothing4You> no, we were currently trying to figure out whether it's a bug or not
378 2013-06-18 09:17:38 <Nothing4You> maybe it's just user misconfiguration
379 2013-06-18 09:17:39 <kinlo> that sounds like your friend editing the config file with wordpad
380 2013-06-18 09:17:45 <kinlo> and saving it as rtf
381 2013-06-18 09:17:53 <kinlo> can you tell him to use notepad?
382 2013-06-18 09:17:56 <BlueMatt> oh, you mean in the file
383 2013-06-18 09:17:59 <BlueMatt> yea, thats rtf
384 2013-06-18 09:18:01 <Nothing4You> oh
385 2013-06-18 09:18:07 <Nothing4You> i couldn't believe someone would do that
386 2013-06-18 09:18:15 <Nothing4You> i'll tell him to use a text editor
387 2013-06-18 09:18:24 <Nothing4You> that is a plain text editor
388 2013-06-18 09:18:50 <BlueMatt> hes probably using Text Edit, which is right, but its not default to save in plain text anymore
389 2013-06-18 09:19:00 <BlueMatt> so you have to make sure you save it right in the save dialog/prefs editor
390 2013-06-18 09:19:01 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
391 2013-06-18 09:19:07 <Nothing4You> can you suggest a free text editor for mac?
392 2013-06-18 09:19:17 <Nothing4You> i know i've used smultron in the past, i'm not sure it's free anymore
393 2013-06-18 09:19:17 nelisky has joined
394 2013-06-18 09:19:20 <BlueMatt> if you're just editing bitcoin.conf, Text Edit is fine
395 2013-06-18 09:19:25 <BlueMatt> otherwise, no idea
396 2013-06-18 09:19:37 <Nothing4You> kk
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406 2013-06-18 09:28:01 <Luke-Jr> side note: I'm not sure bitcoin.conf is loaded early enough for testnet flag, considering testnet uses a different conf file normall
407 2013-06-18 09:28:56 g0thX has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
408 2013-06-18 09:29:39 <sipa> works fine here, both bitcoind and bitcoin-qt
409 2013-06-18 09:30:10 <Luke-Jr> sipa: does it reload the bitcoin.conf for testnet? O.o
410 2013-06-18 09:30:11 dub has joined
411 2013-06-18 09:30:21 <sipa> no
412 2013-06-18 09:30:31 <sipa> not afaik
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428 2013-06-18 09:44:37 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: there is no different config file for testnet
429 2013-06-18 09:45:39 <sipa> if you use -testnet on the command line, ~/.bitcoin/testnet3/bitcoin.conf is used, afaik
430 2013-06-18 09:46:16 <sipa> while if you test testnet=1 in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf, that file itself is used
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435 2013-06-18 09:52:35 <kinlo> ic
436 2013-06-18 09:55:45 <TD[gone]> nick TD
437 2013-06-18 09:55:53 TD[gone] is now known as TD
438 2013-06-18 09:55:54 <BlueMatt> missing something?
439 2013-06-18 09:56:01 <TD> for some reason some guy is always camping on my nick
440 2013-06-18 09:56:04 <TD> irritating
441 2013-06-18 09:56:22 <BlueMatt> it is a two letter nick on freenode...
442 2013-06-18 09:56:43 <Nothing4You> TD: maybe /msg nickserv set enforce on?
443 2013-06-18 09:57:18 agnostic98 has joined
444 2013-06-18 09:57:22 <TD> is that a command? i don't see any reference to it in nickserv help
445 2013-06-18 09:58:00 <BlueMatt> its there somewhere
446 2013-06-18 09:58:15 <BlueMatt> (it makes you auth within X secs of switching to the nick)
447 2013-06-18 09:58:27 <BlueMatt> (why you always see jgarzik as GuestXXXX)
448 2013-06-18 09:58:48 <Nothing4You> TD: see /msg nickserv help set
449 2013-06-18 09:58:50 <TD> that seems no easier than just ghosting the other guy every time :)
450 2013-06-18 09:59:06 <BlueMatt> set your irc client to auto-auth
451 2013-06-18 09:59:08 <Nothing4You> TD: it will release the nick automatically
452 2013-06-18 09:59:15 <Nothing4You> set your client to auth via sasl
453 2013-06-18 09:59:41 <Nothing4You> you might want to upgrade to http://hexchat.org
454 2013-06-18 09:59:44 <Nothing4You> it has builtin sasl
455 2013-06-18 09:59:48 <TD> ok
456 2013-06-18 09:59:49 <TD> thanks
457 2013-06-18 09:59:49 <Nothing4You> for xchat you need a script
458 2013-06-18 09:59:57 <BlueMatt> every client has builtin sasl at this point (or at least a plugin for it)
459 2013-06-18 10:00:24 <Nothing4You> TD: see the ppa: https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/hexchat-stable
460 2013-06-18 10:00:25 <sipa> netcat doesn't!
461 2013-06-18 10:00:31 <Nothing4You> telnet also doesn't
462 2013-06-18 10:00:40 <BlueMatt> or use a bouncer that handles that for you and then just auth to the bouncer
463 2013-06-18 10:00:45 <Nothing4You> ^
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601 2013-06-18 13:09:34 <jgarzik> mornin'
602 2013-06-18 13:10:00 <Anduckk> gm!
603 2013-06-18 13:10:49 <handle> night!
604 2013-06-18 13:11:03 <sipa> 'fternoon
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606 2013-06-18 13:15:00 <BlueMatt> good afternoon
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619 2013-06-18 13:33:12 <handle> evening
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653 2013-06-18 14:11:46 <jgarzik> TD, sipa: does subsidy halving interval need to be a variable, for regtest mode?
654 2013-06-18 14:12:30 <TD> BlueMatt has tests that require that, so yes, i think so
655 2013-06-18 14:12:36 ThomasV has joined
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657 2013-06-18 14:13:21 <sipa> you can argue that regtest mode should be chosen at compile time instead of at runtime, but meh, this is more flexible and easier
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661 2013-06-18 14:14:31 <sipa> oh, mainParams is static, so the Params() function can't be inlined itself
662 2013-06-18 14:14:43 <sipa> not like you'd notice at runtime
663 2013-06-18 14:15:15 robocoin has joined
664 2013-06-18 14:15:40 <jgarzik> ok
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669 2013-06-18 14:22:33 <TD> sipa: for app development it's nice to be able to switch back and forth with the same binary
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679 2013-06-18 14:34:26 <cheesecake299> I am trying to get multi sig to work, How do i list the info on the multi-sig transaction? http://pastebay.com/1241334
680 2013-06-18 14:35:16 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
681 2013-06-18 14:37:59 <jgarzik> cheesecake299, what do you mean by 'list the info'? What info do you need?
682 2013-06-18 14:38:38 <cheesecake299> balance, if it's been signed
683 2013-06-18 14:39:04 <jgarzik> cheesecake299, listtransactions and getinfo RPC calls should give that
684 2013-06-18 14:39:20 <jgarzik> cheesecake299, signrawtransaction also tells you if its completely signed
685 2013-06-18 14:41:09 <cheesecake299> partially signed? I want to program a web interface for mutli-sigs to simplify the process
686 2013-06-18 14:41:48 <sydna> somewhat related, has anyone ever made a curses interface for bitcoind?
687 2013-06-18 14:43:38 handle has quit (Quit: leaving)
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690 2013-06-18 14:46:11 <TD> cheesecake299: afaik blockchain.info already has done that
691 2013-06-18 14:46:36 freewil has joined
692 2013-06-18 14:46:50 <jgarzik> Yep, https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow
693 2013-06-18 14:47:22 <cheesecake299> jgarzik getbalance says 0 :/
694 2013-06-18 14:48:04 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
695 2013-06-18 14:48:18 <jgarzik> cheesecake299, are the transactions confirmed yet?
696 2013-06-18 14:48:19 ielo has joined
697 2013-06-18 14:48:40 bbrian has joined
698 2013-06-18 14:49:49 boonies4u has joined
699 2013-06-18 14:49:49 <cheesecake299> how do i find out?
700 2013-06-18 14:50:04 [BNC]dansmith has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
701 2013-06-18 14:50:14 gjj has joined
702 2013-06-18 14:50:17 gjj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
703 2013-06-18 14:50:35 <cheesecake299> not showing up on http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/address/mpxs2zxpPpQspCjQo1QfQ2afvQMtSoHaG5
704 2013-06-18 14:50:45 gjj has joined
705 2013-06-18 14:50:46 <boonies4u> I'm wondering what happens if you install a full node on a HD of limited capacity and it reaches the point that it can't download further blocks
706 2013-06-18 14:51:24 <boonies4u> I'm certainly not facing this concern, but i'm curious
707 2013-06-18 14:52:52 <cheesecake299> jgarzik when i do listreceivedbyaddress 1 true it does not even show it's left the wallet
708 2013-06-18 14:53:49 <cheesecake299> it did return 0de20f9934343b25cdd9c4bf654a9922603a5e17eda14a3475000461eafc04a8 though
709 2013-06-18 14:54:06 <sipa> jgarzik, cheesecake299: multisig transactions are not assumed to be 'to' you, unless you have all relevant keys in your wallet
710 2013-06-18 14:54:10 Subo1978 has joined
711 2013-06-18 14:54:34 <cheesecake299> so how do i fund it?
712 2013-06-18 14:54:38 zer0def has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
713 2013-06-18 14:54:47 <sipa> you need to find the outputs to it in another way, which is very clumsy
714 2013-06-18 14:55:04 <sipa> we need something like having them in listtransactions but not counted in balanc eor something
715 2013-06-18 14:55:18 <sipa> or it can be integrated with watch-only addresses
716 2013-06-18 14:55:20 nowan has joined
717 2013-06-18 14:57:29 <sipa> boonies4u: if you run out of disk space, and bitcoin detects this, it exits
718 2013-06-18 14:57:42 <cheesecake299> sipa please could you write a simple example of creating/funding/signing/spending a multi sig? I am really confused
719 2013-06-18 14:57:43 <boonies4u> ah thanks :3
720 2013-06-18 14:57:57 Subo1978_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
721 2013-06-18 14:58:02 <sipa> cheesecake299: it is not simple
722 2013-06-18 14:58:18 <sipa> cheesecake299: gmaxwell has an example somewhere
723 2013-06-18 14:58:29 <sipa> but the parts to make it easy don't exist yet, afaik
724 2013-06-18 14:59:53 reneg__ has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
725 2013-06-18 15:00:16 reneg has joined
726 2013-06-18 15:00:32 reneg is now known as Guest91750
727 2013-06-18 15:01:59 grau has joined
728 2013-06-18 15:02:15 <cheesecake299> sipa https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071/raw/1f6cfa4208bc82ee5039876b4f065a705ce64df7/TwoOfThree.sh ?
729 2013-06-18 15:02:18 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
730 2013-06-18 15:03:14 <sipa> cheesecake299: yes, but that completely bypasses the problem of detecting incoming payments
731 2013-06-18 15:03:43 <sipa> which currently doesn't exist in bitcoind
732 2013-06-18 15:04:35 <cheesecake299> okay, i just got to wait a few hrs before my transaction is processed by testnet?
733 2013-06-18 15:05:05 kwikness has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
734 2013-06-18 15:05:18 <sipa> eh, no, you need a way to know incoming payments on multisig addresses
735 2013-06-18 15:06:02 <sipa> confirmations have nothing to do with it
736 2013-06-18 15:06:27 <cheesecake299> ah so at the moment there is no way to know if a mult-sig address is funded?
737 2013-06-18 15:06:48 agnostic98 has joined
738 2013-06-18 15:06:56 <sipa> only if you own all keys involved
739 2013-06-18 15:06:58 AchrafB has joined
740 2013-06-18 15:07:09 <sipa> which isn't actually useful at all
741 2013-06-18 15:07:17 <cheesecake299> inlcuding the public and private or just pub?
742 2013-06-18 15:07:31 <sipa> own == you have the private key
743 2013-06-18 15:07:46 <cheesecake299> :/ so can't really use it then
744 2013-06-18 15:08:09 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
745 2013-06-18 15:08:13 <sipa> the nice solution imho would be watch-only wallets
746 2013-06-18 15:08:21 <sipa> which was implemented already, but outdated now
747 2013-06-18 15:08:26 <TD> cheesecake299: what are you *actually* trying to do
748 2013-06-18 15:08:27 kwikness has joined
749 2013-06-18 15:08:32 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
750 2013-06-18 15:08:44 <TD> cheesecake299: multi-sig transactions are not, by themselves, a feature
751 2013-06-18 15:08:50 <TD> cheesecake299: they are something you use to build other features
752 2013-06-18 15:08:50 <cheesecake299> use multi-sig as an escrow
753 2013-06-18 15:08:55 <TD> what does "escrow" mean?
754 2013-06-18 15:08:57 ielo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
755 2013-06-18 15:09:05 grau has joined
756 2013-06-18 15:09:09 <cheesecake299> keep coins in the multi-sig
757 2013-06-18 15:09:14 <TD> that's circular
758 2013-06-18 15:09:18 <TD> think higher level
759 2013-06-18 15:09:21 <TD> what end user problem are you trying to solve
760 2013-06-18 15:09:27 <cheesecake299> trust
761 2013-06-18 15:09:34 <TD> trust in what sense? dispute mediation? security against viruses?
762 2013-06-18 15:09:35 <cheesecake299> so the user only needs to privide a pub key
763 2013-06-18 15:10:14 <cheesecake299> minimize the access to coins if service was hacked, as only when the multi-sig is signed it can be spent
764 2013-06-18 15:10:15 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
765 2013-06-18 15:10:43 <sipa> so you want to create an e-wallet site where the held coins are co-owned by the user?
766 2013-06-18 15:10:51 <cheesecake299> an escrow site
767 2013-06-18 15:11:03 <sipa> or you want to facilitate payments to untrusted receivers?
768 2013-06-18 15:11:04 GordonG3kko has joined
769 2013-06-18 15:11:04 <TD> if what service was hacked? a web service? an exchange?
770 2013-06-18 15:11:34 <cheesecake299> sipa facilitate payments to untrusted receivers?
771 2013-06-18 15:11:56 <sipa> cheesecake299: please explain what exact problem you're solving
772 2013-06-18 15:12:05 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
773 2013-06-18 15:12:12 <sipa> you're just listing arbitrary features you're using, or very high-level terms
774 2013-06-18 15:13:31 <cheesecake299> sure, so buyer gives an unused public address, and so does the seller, then the escow agent adds his public key
775 2013-06-18 15:13:35 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
776 2013-06-18 15:13:40 melvster has joined
777 2013-06-18 15:13:59 <sipa> and then returns 2-of-3 multisig address?
778 2013-06-18 15:14:01 <cheesecake299> then the buyer funds the multi-sig, and once the goods arrive both paries sign the transactoin
779 2013-06-18 15:14:14 <cheesecake299> and then the funds are relased
780 2013-06-18 15:14:17 <sipa> ok
781 2013-06-18 15:14:30 <sipa> so yes, your problem will be detecting payments to the multisig address
782 2013-06-18 15:14:44 <sipa> that's something bitcoind can't do today
783 2013-06-18 15:15:00 <Scrat> what is the plan with including multisig into bitcoin-qt?
784 2013-06-18 15:15:02 <TD> cheesecake299: so, this one? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_2:_Escrow_and_dispute_mediation
785 2013-06-18 15:15:05 <Jouke> does anyone knom if there is an easy way to calculate the public key of a raw private key through openssl? And with raw private key, I mean non DER-encoded (because when I use dumpprivkey it isn't der-encoded right?)
786 2013-06-18 15:15:08 <TD> cheesecake299: it's really best to call that dispute mediation
787 2013-06-18 15:15:12 <TD> cheesecake299: "escrow" can mean other things
788 2013-06-18 15:15:37 <TD> Jouke: you mean the command line tool or with the c api?
789 2013-06-18 15:15:41 <cheesecake299> thanks TD will be more specific next time didnt know :)
790 2013-06-18 15:15:47 <Jouke> command line
791 2013-06-18 15:15:52 <TD> cheesecake299: for something like dispute mediation, that's a big project and it involves more than just a website and a few RPC calls to bitcoind.
792 2013-06-18 15:16:12 <TD> cheesecake299: for instance, the wallet apps have to know how to represent disputed transactions in the GUI, the merchants have to communicate to the users which mediator to use, etc
793 2013-06-18 15:16:29 <TD> cheesecake299: if you implement that, you'll be doing it either in c++, java (for multibit/android wallet), or both
794 2013-06-18 15:16:34 <TD> not via JSON-RPC and a web app
795 2013-06-18 15:20:13 <Jouke> TD: or does openssl only accept DER or PEM encoded input?
796 2013-06-18 15:20:40 <TD> not sure. i expect only der/pem
797 2013-06-18 15:21:26 <sipa> Jouke: "just the secret parameter as 32 bytes" is not really a standard format
798 2013-06-18 15:21:38 <sipa> so i expect openssl to only accept DER encoded private keys indeed
799 2013-06-18 15:24:06 <jgarzik> hrm
800 2013-06-18 15:24:11 ielo has joined
801 2013-06-18 15:24:12 <jgarzik> testnet3 healthy?
802 2013-06-18 15:24:24 <jgarzik> somebody is mining w/ ASIC on testnet?
803 2013-06-18 15:24:36 michagogo has joined
804 2013-06-18 15:25:38 <sydna> difficulty 256 does sound a bit high for the testnet
805 2013-06-18 15:26:02 savetheinternet has joined
806 2013-06-18 15:26:06 sacrelege has joined
807 2013-06-18 15:26:41 <TD> jgarzik: merge regtest mode and rejoice! for i in `seq 1 150`; do ./bitcoind -regtest setgenerate true; usleep $[ 300 * 1000 ]; ./bitcoind -regtest getblockcount; done
808 2013-06-18 15:26:52 <jgarzik> sigh
809 2013-06-18 15:26:57 <jgarzik> might have to reset testnet
810 2013-06-18 15:27:09 <jgarzik> TD, :)
811 2013-06-18 15:27:16 <sipa> how about we switch testnet to Scrypt with 1 GiB of RAM? :p
812 2013-06-18 15:27:26 <TD> well once he switches off his miner it should reset itself, right
813 2013-06-18 15:27:28 K1773R has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
814 2013-06-18 15:27:43 <sydna> won't testnet3 just drop back to difficulty 1?
815 2013-06-18 15:27:49 <jgarzik> kinda
816 2013-06-18 15:27:57 <sipa> difficulty 256?
817 2013-06-18 15:27:57 boonies4u has quit (Quit: Page closed)
818 2013-06-18 15:27:59 JZavala has joined
819 2013-06-18 15:27:59 <jgarzik> after a period of time without a block, you may mine a diff-1 block
820 2013-06-18 15:28:08 <jgarzik> not quite the same
821 2013-06-18 15:28:46 <sipa> ;;calc 10*10**9 * 600 / (256*2**32)
822 2013-06-18 15:28:46 <gribble> 5.45696821064
823 2013-06-18 15:29:02 <sipa> i can outmine difficulty 256 by a factor 5 :)
824 2013-06-18 15:29:27 <sydna> someone's packing an ASIC
825 2013-06-18 15:29:45 <sipa> jgarzik: if you mine a diff-1 block exactly at the retarget, it returns permanently to 1
826 2013-06-18 15:30:11 agnostic98 has joined
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829 2013-06-18 15:31:15 <The_Fly> yes, i wondered why testnet took so long to catch up, blocks were a lot more frequent
830 2013-06-18 15:31:38 <The_Fly> sipa: I enjoyed your HD wallets talk
831 2013-06-18 15:31:47 <The_Fly> watched yesterday.
832 2013-06-18 15:32:34 <sipa> cool :)
833 2013-06-18 15:33:35 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
834 2013-06-18 15:33:45 <The_Fly> not sure what to make about the question at the end
835 2013-06-18 15:33:52 <The_Fly> which caused a bit of contention
836 2013-06-18 15:33:57 <The_Fly> about look-ahead
837 2013-06-18 15:34:10 <The_Fly> vs integrating into protocal
838 2013-06-18 15:34:27 <The_Fly> *protocol
839 2013-06-18 15:34:43 <sipa> it's about what belongs in the specification, and what is local client policy
840 2013-06-18 15:34:47 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
841 2013-06-18 15:35:11 <sipa> and imho we don't have enough experience with wallet clients that implement such strategies yet to know what the best practices are
842 2013-06-18 15:35:22 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803])
843 2013-06-18 15:35:56 K1773R has joined
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851 2013-06-18 15:40:54 <The_Fly> if i set keypool=1000 i dont see it generate, will it do so once the existing keys are exhausted?
852 2013-06-18 15:41:23 <TD> The_Fly: to implement it, client authors have to pick an arbitrary number. unfortunately it's not really clear what that should be :-)
853 2013-06-18 15:41:45 <TD> The_Fly: if it's too high you get a lot of network inefficiency. too low and the user risks missing transactions and getting out of sync, which is obviously catastrophic.
854 2013-06-18 15:41:53 <TD> so i think people will err on the side of too high :)
855 2013-06-18 15:42:01 tgs3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
856 2013-06-18 15:42:03 gfawkes has joined
857 2013-06-18 15:42:21 <The_Fly> yes
858 2013-06-18 15:42:45 <The_Fly> as sipa points out you'd see an abrubt stop to your transaction history
859 2013-06-18 15:43:08 ielo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
860 2013-06-18 15:43:12 <sipa> The_Fly: if your wallet encrypted?
861 2013-06-18 15:43:13 <The_Fly> but in that case you could expand your look-ahead and reindex on those keys
862 2013-06-18 15:43:29 <sipa> *is
863 2013-06-18 15:43:33 <The_Fly> sorry, rescan
864 2013-06-18 15:43:38 <The_Fly> sipa: nope
865 2013-06-18 15:44:02 <The_Fly> i tried this a while back also, haven't looked to see what the source thinks it should do
866 2013-06-18 15:44:12 <sipa> hmm, maybe it only refills the keypool when you use a key
867 2013-06-18 15:44:17 <The_Fly> i will try
868 2013-06-18 15:44:20 <The_Fly> let's see...
869 2013-06-18 15:44:27 <jgarzik> getinfo refills ;p
870 2013-06-18 15:45:07 <TD> implementing HD wallets is super important but also gonna be a pile of work
871 2013-06-18 15:45:08 <TD> we need it for trezor
872 2013-06-18 15:45:20 <TD> luckily it seems, nobody wrote a virus that steals encrypted wallets yet
873 2013-06-18 15:45:22 <TD> so we have time
874 2013-06-18 15:45:31 <sydna> well that's not true
875 2013-06-18 15:45:34 <sipa> well, the most simple implementation is trivial
876 2013-06-18 15:45:49 <The_Fly> oh trezor for HD wallets, nice
877 2013-06-18 15:45:51 <TD> what is the most simple implementation?
878 2013-06-18 15:45:53 <sydna> even the skiddie "CRYPTOCURRENCY WALLET STEALER" tool will steal an encrypted wallet.dat
879 2013-06-18 15:45:53 <sipa> just change random generated keys to use the derivation function instead
880 2013-06-18 15:46:09 <sipa> that means no nice type-2 stuff, separation of accounts, external/internal chains, ...
881 2013-06-18 15:46:18 <sipa> but it would be compatible with other clients that also implement it
882 2013-06-18 15:46:27 <TD> you still need to do the lookahead and auto-derivation
883 2013-06-18 15:46:33 <TD> (if using bloom filtering)
884 2013-06-18 15:46:37 <sipa> not more than now
885 2013-06-18 15:46:42 <sipa> we already have a keypool
886 2013-06-18 15:47:01 <sipa> oh, i was talking about the reference client
887 2013-06-18 15:47:09 <The_Fly> jgarzik: getinfo refills?
888 2013-06-18 15:47:18 <TD> well, even then, if you restore a wallet from backup you have to know how many to derive
889 2013-06-18 15:47:25 <TD> today we just kind of punt on that and say, if your backup is too old, sux to be you
890 2013-06-18 15:47:27 <jgarzik> The_Fly, yes
891 2013-06-18 15:47:30 <sipa> TD: we already have a keypool for that
892 2013-06-18 15:47:33 <TD> the whole point of HD wallets is we don't have to punt any more
893 2013-06-18 15:47:39 <sydna> (if you ever come across that malware I mentioned, look at the last bytes in the file, it includes the persons email address)
894 2013-06-18 15:47:40 <TD> you should never have a backup that's "too old"
895 2013-06-18 15:47:44 <sipa> TD: hd wallets just allow a much better controlled policy
896 2013-06-18 15:47:45 <The_Fly> hm, the node is catching up on missed blocks, would that stop it? jgarzik
897 2013-06-18 15:47:45 FredEE has joined
898 2013-06-18 15:47:50 <TD> well, sure, if you implement HD wallets with none of the benefits then it's easy :)
899 2013-06-18 15:47:56 <sipa> that's what i mean
900 2013-06-18 15:48:04 <TD> sydna: but how does it decrypt them?
901 2013-06-18 15:48:10 <jgarzik> The_Fly, I would wait until it catches up
902 2013-06-18 15:48:55 <sydna> TD: oh it doesn't, it just emails the wallet.dat back to the owner. from there they can at least see the balance of the wallet, and determine if it is worth attacking the wallet password. I imagine that it won't be long before there's GPU tools for attacking the wallet encryption.
903 2013-06-18 15:49:05 <sipa> TD: actually, if that existed today, i'd use them for sure
904 2013-06-18 15:49:11 <The_Fly> will take a while with all these testnet blocks! :-)
905 2013-06-18 15:49:11 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
906 2013-06-18 15:49:13 <The_Fly> gah
907 2013-06-18 15:49:40 <TD> sydna: well, exactly ....
908 2013-06-18 15:50:03 <sydna> they can still be silently stolen and attacked. the encryption doesn't by any measure prevent that
909 2013-06-18 15:50:24 <sydna> the next step for malware would be to sit and wait for the wallet to be decrypted, but I haven't heard of anything like that
910 2013-06-18 15:50:40 <sydna> the malware I mentioned is written in visual basic, so the barrier of entry is clearly low.
911 2013-06-18 15:50:52 grau has joined
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914 2013-06-18 15:52:38 <TD> yes, yes it does prevent that
915 2013-06-18 15:52:45 <TD> can you write an app in visual basic that brute forces passwords?
916 2013-06-18 15:52:50 <TD> i mean that aren't something stupid like "password" ?
917 2013-06-18 15:52:53 <TD> i don't think so
918 2013-06-18 15:53:05 <The_Fly> i always have this thought in my mind when i unlock my keepass wallet
919 2013-06-18 15:53:08 ericmuyser has joined
920 2013-06-18 15:53:24 <sydna> like I said, I imagine there's JTR modules for cracking bitcoin-qt passwords. if not, there'll be ones eventually
921 2013-06-18 15:53:25 <The_Fly> doesn't feel secure really that something could jump in and pull cleartext passwords from memory
922 2013-06-18 15:53:26 <sipa> I've written code in VB that called a .dll written in C for high-performance stuff *ducks*
923 2013-06-18 15:53:31 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
924 2013-06-18 15:53:59 <The_Fly> ive written c which node calls, is that as bad?
925 2013-06-18 15:54:06 <TD> sydna: maybe so, but then we're back at my original point - currently, even though wallet encryption is theoretically weak, it seems to work well enough to buy time until stronger solutions come along
926 2013-06-18 15:54:33 <sydna> sipa: I bet you didn't write something that looks like this â http://i.imgur.com/1eUxLqE.png
927 2013-06-18 15:54:48 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
928 2013-06-18 15:55:12 <sipa> sydna: no, it was a fractal zoomer :)
929 2013-06-18 15:55:14 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
930 2013-06-18 15:55:24 jimmy2k has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
931 2013-06-18 15:55:30 <sydna> sipa: good man.
932 2013-06-18 15:55:46 grau has joined
933 2013-06-18 15:56:07 <sipa> it was also 12y ago :)
934 2013-06-18 15:56:10 <The_Fly> testnet still catching up
935 2013-06-18 15:56:35 <sydna> yeah, young me was learning PHP
936 2013-06-18 15:56:52 <jaromil> gosh. not even a script, not a full gui. aren't we spoling those script kiddies?
937 2013-06-18 15:57:03 cads has joined
938 2013-06-18 15:57:48 <sydna> jaromil: come on, there's even youtube video tutorials on using this billshit
939 2013-06-18 15:57:50 caedes has joined
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941 2013-06-18 15:57:50 caedes has joined
942 2013-06-18 15:58:08 <jaromil> i'm flabbergasted by how lamer is the "send via ftp or gmail" choice
943 2013-06-18 15:58:21 <The_Fly> lolll
944 2013-06-18 15:58:29 <sydna> the best part is when they use their real email addresses. it's fun finding them on facebook.
945 2013-06-18 15:58:38 <jaromil> unbelievable
946 2013-06-18 15:58:45 tgs3 has joined
947 2013-06-18 15:59:14 Guest95704 is now known as Uisgdlyast
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950 2013-06-18 15:59:26 <sydna> for a while there was a multibit.org typo domain serving up this trojan as multibit.exe
951 2013-06-18 15:59:32 gritball_ has joined
952 2013-06-18 15:59:41 gritball has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
953 2013-06-18 16:00:14 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
954 2013-06-18 16:00:30 <sydna> there's another one I found today at http://multibtcâ¢org/ serving up a more sophisticated backdoored version
955 2013-06-18 16:00:46 peetaur2 has joined
956 2013-06-18 16:02:02 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
957 2013-06-18 16:02:17 <sipa> it's a sad day, when people think the only way to get new addresses into a client is by importing them :(
958 2013-06-18 16:02:50 <sydna> I've seen a person on here believing that too.
959 2013-06-18 16:03:03 <sydna> wonder where is distributing that information
960 2013-06-18 16:03:08 <The_Fly> :S
961 2013-06-18 16:03:21 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
962 2013-06-18 16:03:47 gjj has joined
963 2013-06-18 16:04:01 <The_Fly> jgarzik: confirmed getinfo does not populate the keypool, sending a single transaction did however
964 2013-06-18 16:04:24 <jgarzik> The_Fly, are you encrypted by default?
965 2013-06-18 16:04:35 <jgarzik> getinfo definitely refills here, but that might be only for unencrypted :/
966 2013-06-18 16:04:44 <The_Fly> i am unencrypted
967 2013-06-18 16:04:45 * jgarzik used to poll 'getinfo' to force this
968 2013-06-18 16:04:46 <jgarzik> hrm
969 2013-06-18 16:04:55 <The_Fly> at least i dont have to unlockwallet
970 2013-06-18 16:05:02 <The_Fly> to send coins
971 2013-06-18 16:05:16 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
972 2013-06-18 16:05:49 <The_Fly> well it seems block catchup and keypool are quite async
973 2013-06-18 16:06:27 <The_Fly> i wonder if i can send transactions and catch incoming wallettx during keypool fillup
974 2013-06-18 16:06:30 <The_Fly> ?
975 2013-06-18 16:06:58 <The_Fly> unsure if locks are held, i guess i can try now (its still busy populating)
976 2013-06-18 16:07:17 cheesecake299 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
977 2013-06-18 16:07:26 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
978 2013-06-18 16:08:01 <The_Fly> hm nope, original tx had not returned rpc call
979 2013-06-18 16:08:19 savetheinternet has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
980 2013-06-18 16:08:57 <The_Fly> hm, not very good if i have a few mins outtage every X keys
981 2013-06-18 16:09:12 <The_Fly> (at least unable to send tx)
982 2013-06-18 16:10:46 <sipa> a few _minutes_ ?
983 2013-06-18 16:10:52 GordonG3kko has joined
984 2013-06-18 16:11:20 <The_Fly> well... 1000 keys took at least 2
985 2013-06-18 16:11:49 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
986 2013-06-18 16:11:53 <sipa> right, but that's only once
987 2013-06-18 16:12:04 <sipa> after that, you refill 1 after every key consume
988 2013-06-18 16:12:05 <The_Fly> but they will be exhausted at some point
989 2013-06-18 16:12:15 <The_Fly> oh i see, thanks
990 2013-06-18 16:12:42 lolcookie__ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
991 2013-06-18 16:14:53 * jgarzik wants a kickkeypool RPC call :)
992 2013-06-18 16:15:03 <jgarzik> adjust the size, refill if necessary
993 2013-06-18 16:15:12 <sipa> it's called unlockwallet ?
994 2013-06-18 16:15:37 <The_Fly> jgarzik: yes i was going to request
995 2013-06-18 16:15:41 <The_Fly> or suggest
996 2013-06-18 16:16:59 <jgarzik> sipa, no such thing
997 2013-06-18 16:17:05 savetheinternet has joined
998 2013-06-18 16:17:37 <The_Fly> by that i meant walletpassphrase
999 2013-06-18 16:17:39 <sipa> huh?
1000 2013-06-18 16:17:44 <sipa> ah, walletpassphrase indeed
1001 2013-06-18 16:17:49 <The_Fly> (my bad)
1002 2013-06-18 16:18:13 <sydna> turns out Electrum doesn't like compressed keys, that's unfortunate.
1003 2013-06-18 16:18:26 <sipa> they still haven't implemented that...?
1004 2013-06-18 16:18:27 <The_Fly> i can't query my keypool size with bitcoind?
1005 2013-06-18 16:18:32 AchrafB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1006 2013-06-18 16:18:40 <sipa> getinfo returns it
1007 2013-06-18 16:18:46 <sydna> you can import compressed keys, but they never show a balance
1008 2013-06-18 16:18:47 <The_Fly> i didn't see...
1009 2013-06-18 16:18:58 Diablo-D3 has joined
1010 2013-06-18 16:19:04 <sipa> keypoolsize
1011 2013-06-18 16:19:16 <sydna> it's nuts how badly supported compressed keys are really
1012 2013-06-18 16:19:20 <The_Fly> oh right, i had to comment that out for some reason
1013 2013-06-18 16:19:30 maaku has joined
1014 2013-06-18 16:19:31 <The_Fly> on this fork (zmq+multiwallet)
1015 2013-06-18 16:20:02 <Mad7Scientist> bitcoin-qt is not allowing multiple miners to connect
1016 2013-06-18 16:20:11 <Mad7Scientist> :( :( :( !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1017 2013-06-18 16:20:12 <sydna> The_Fly: nothing like a project with unicode in it's name
1018 2013-06-18 16:20:14 <Mad7Scientist> 0.8.2 !!!!!!!!!!!
1019 2013-06-18 16:20:49 clr_ has joined
1020 2013-06-18 16:20:59 TD is now known as TD[gone]
1021 2013-06-18 16:21:28 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: ?
1022 2013-06-18 16:21:28 Julius129 has joined
1023 2013-06-18 16:21:32 <sipa> what happens?
1024 2013-06-18 16:21:32 <The_Fly> ah yes, keypoolsize moved to listwallets rpc
1025 2013-06-18 16:21:47 <Mad7Scientist> sipa, can't connect to bitcoin RPC
1026 2013-06-18 16:21:56 <Mad7Scientist> I'm going down to version 0.7
1027 2013-06-18 16:21:56 <The_Fly> sydna: s/\+/_/
1028 2013-06-18 16:22:13 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: ...
1029 2013-06-18 16:22:19 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: nothing changed about RPC
1030 2013-06-18 16:22:27 <Mad7Scientist> Well it's broke
1031 2013-06-18 16:22:28 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: can you explain what happens?
1032 2013-06-18 16:22:38 <Mad7Scientist> I start bitcoin-qt -server
1033 2013-06-18 16:22:47 <Mad7Scientist> I have 3 hosts with 3 miners each
1034 2013-06-18 16:22:56 <Mad7Scientist> and about 6 of them are able to connect
1035 2013-06-18 16:23:00 <flound1129> you're solo mining bitconi?
1036 2013-06-18 16:23:03 <Mad7Scientist> this time one host would not connect at all
1037 2013-06-18 16:23:04 <Mad7Scientist> yes
1038 2013-06-18 16:23:14 <flound1129> I hope your miners are all avalons
1039 2013-06-18 16:23:17 <sydna> probably not a wise move really.
1040 2013-06-18 16:23:18 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1041 2013-06-18 16:23:44 <Mad7Scientist> They are just video cards
1042 2013-06-18 16:23:51 <Mad7Scientist> it is still a little bit profitable
1043 2013-06-18 16:23:54 <flound1129> have you ever found a block?
1044 2013-06-18 16:24:03 i2pRelay has joined
1045 2013-06-18 16:24:04 <Mad7Scientist> yeah
1046 2013-06-18 16:24:12 <sydna> even with a powerful GPU, your chance of finding a block now is.. slim.
1047 2013-06-18 16:24:17 <sydna> ;;gentime 400
1048 2013-06-18 16:24:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 19339258.2724, is 6 years, 30 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 53 seconds
1049 2013-06-18 16:24:27 <Mad7Scientist> ;;gentime 2200
1050 2013-06-18 16:24:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2200.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 19339258.2724, is 1 year, 10 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 15 seconds
1051 2013-06-18 16:24:38 <sydna> yeah, that's never going to happen.
1052 2013-06-18 16:24:43 <Mad7Scientist> in a year it will
1053 2013-06-18 16:24:51 <Mad7Scientist> a block is $2500
1054 2013-06-18 16:24:54 <sydna> in a year the difficulty might be in the hundreds of millions
1055 2013-06-18 16:24:59 <Mad7Scientist> electricity is $1000
1056 2013-06-18 16:25:03 owowo has joined
1057 2013-06-18 16:25:07 <flound1129> you should really join a pool
1058 2013-06-18 16:25:09 <Mad7Scientist> so still worth it
1059 2013-06-18 16:25:11 <sydna> that would be true, but difficulty is not a constant.
1060 2013-06-18 16:25:16 <Mad7Scientist> too many scamming pools
1061 2013-06-18 16:25:24 <sydna> scamming pools?
1062 2013-06-18 16:25:25 <Mad7Scientist> bitguild bitpit.it abcpool.co all scammed me
1063 2013-06-18 16:25:31 <Mad7Scientist> btcguild
1064 2013-06-18 16:25:37 <flound1129> btcguild scammed you?
1065 2013-06-18 16:25:38 <sydna> I doubt BTCguild scammed anybody
1066 2013-06-18 16:25:47 <Mad7Scientist> they scammed everybody a yaer and a half ago
1067 2013-06-18 16:25:57 <Mad7Scientist> when they were proportional
1068 2013-06-18 16:26:01 <flound1129> how
1069 2013-06-18 16:26:13 <sydna> I sincerely doubt it. go with eligius.st if you must, if you don't trust a core developer then you've got other troubles.
1070 2013-06-18 16:26:21 <Mad7Scientist> very low luck that was like one in thousands odds of happening
1071 2013-06-18 16:26:39 <sydna> low luck is low luck, not scamming.
1072 2013-06-18 16:26:43 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1073 2013-06-18 16:26:55 <sydna> if they were generating blocks and not reporting them, people would have noticed.
1074 2013-06-18 16:26:55 <Mad7Scientist> scamming appears exactly as low luck
1075 2013-06-18 16:27:00 <Mad7Scientist> there is no way to tell the difference
1076 2013-06-18 16:27:08 <Mad7Scientist> if the pool keeps mined blocks for itself
1077 2013-06-18 16:27:08 <flound1129> there is, actually
1078 2013-06-18 16:27:16 <flound1129> you can check the pool's address in teh blockchain
1079 2013-06-18 16:27:21 <Mad7Scientist> well
1080 2013-06-18 16:27:21 Tantadruj has joined
1081 2013-06-18 16:27:30 <Mad7Scientist> they can insert false shares
1082 2013-06-18 16:27:34 <Mad7Scientist> of non existant miners
1083 2013-06-18 16:27:43 <flound1129> if they were off by more than a few % people would notice
1084 2013-06-18 16:27:46 <Mad7Scientist> so everything looks normal
1085 2013-06-18 16:27:51 <sydna> I can't imagine that BTCguild would bother. they're raking in the cash anyway.
1086 2013-06-18 16:27:54 <Mad7Scientist> they were down to -40%
1087 2013-06-18 16:27:57 <sydna> so?
1088 2013-06-18 16:28:00 clr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1089 2013-06-18 16:28:06 <Mad7Scientist> anyway
1090 2013-06-18 16:28:12 <flound1129> you're probably never going to find a block.
1091 2013-06-18 16:28:22 <flound1129> but w/e
1092 2013-06-18 16:28:24 <flound1129> have at it
1093 2013-06-18 16:28:25 <Mad7Scientist> yes w/e
1094 2013-06-18 16:28:30 <sipa> if you don't trust a centralized pool, use p2pool
1095 2013-06-18 16:28:33 <Julius129> Mad7Scientist, i agree with what you're saying, but you should also buy a few coins too
1096 2013-06-18 16:28:39 <Mad7Scientist> I found one already not that long ago
1097 2013-06-18 16:28:43 <sipa> but don't mine solo - it's just pointless with that kind of hashrate
1098 2013-06-18 16:28:50 <sydna> I bet you had problems with p2pool too.
1099 2013-06-18 16:28:58 <Mad7Scientist> I never tried p2pool
1100 2013-06-18 16:29:02 <Mad7Scientist> but I can solo mine
1101 2013-06-18 16:29:09 <Mad7Scientist> that way there is never any issue with fees or anything
1102 2013-06-18 16:29:10 <sydna> you can't really
1103 2013-06-18 16:29:21 <sydna> you'll /never/ make any income solo mining.
1104 2013-06-18 16:29:25 <Mad7Scientist> have you ever played the lottery?
1105 2013-06-18 16:29:30 <sydna> no, I'm not a moron.
1106 2013-06-18 16:29:37 <sipa> ok, so go play the lottery if that's what you want
1107 2013-06-18 16:29:52 <sipa> you can do so independently from your mining business
1108 2013-06-18 16:29:52 <Mad7Scientist> but the lottery is a overall loss
1109 2013-06-18 16:29:57 <flound1129> you'd be better off investing that $1k in scratch offs
1110 2013-06-18 16:30:18 <Mad7Scientist> I have a 1 in 12 chance of getting $2500 tihs month
1111 2013-06-18 16:30:19 <Mad7Scientist> how is that bad
1112 2013-06-18 16:30:37 <sydna> just join a pool, then you'll make a steady income.
1113 2013-06-18 16:30:40 brson has joined
1114 2013-06-18 16:30:49 <dugo> flound1129: nonsense .. pool or solo mining is just a choice in variance
1115 2013-06-18 16:30:50 <Mad7Scientist> I don't need steady income
1116 2013-06-18 16:30:53 <Julius129> Mad7Scientist, just make sure you are connected to enough other nodes
1117 2013-06-18 16:31:01 Mad7Scientist has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1118 2013-06-18 16:31:19 * sydna rolls eyes
1119 2013-06-18 16:32:48 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1120 2013-06-18 16:32:56 handle has joined
1121 2013-06-18 16:33:22 <melvster> dugo: actually it's a choice in expected gain too, as pools take a %
1122 2013-06-18 16:33:37 <flound1129> p2pool is free
1123 2013-06-18 16:34:12 <melvster> so 0-3% :)
1124 2013-06-18 16:34:39 <sydna> if I was mining, I'd take 3% loss over never making any income at all
1125 2013-06-18 16:34:48 <flound1129> yep
1126 2013-06-18 16:35:26 ardeay_ has joined
1127 2013-06-18 16:36:11 OpenOcean has joined
1128 2013-06-18 16:36:13 <melvster> i mined 50 back in the day, but gave most away
1129 2013-06-18 16:36:28 <melvster> bitcoin has the potential to go 1000x higher ... so you may yet make a profit
1130 2013-06-18 16:36:46 <sydna> I wouldn't bet my money on it
1131 2013-06-18 16:36:46 OpenOcean is now known as Mad7Scientist
1132 2013-06-18 16:37:07 <Mad7Scientist> I'm back
1133 2013-06-18 16:37:27 <Mad7Scientist> I can make $240 a month from mining
1134 2013-06-18 16:37:32 <Mad7Scientist> and electricity costs me $100
1135 2013-06-18 16:37:35 <sydna> you won't though.
1136 2013-06-18 16:37:45 <flound1129> probably
1137 2013-06-18 16:37:45 <Mad7Scientist> but It's $2400 every 12 months
1138 2013-06-18 16:37:50 <Mad7Scientist> so it just takes a while
1139 2013-06-18 16:38:02 <sydna> no, it's not. you're ignoring the increasing difficulty.
1140 2013-06-18 16:38:14 <Mad7Scientist> sydna, have you ever though about how you would run a privately owned non underwitten insurance company?
1141 2013-06-18 16:38:25 <Mad7Scientist> when difficulty gets too high I will stop mining
1142 2013-06-18 16:38:43 <Mad7Scientist> anyway
1143 2013-06-18 16:38:47 <Mad7Scientist> I can't mine properly
1144 2013-06-18 16:38:49 <sydna> so in 6 months when the difficulty is 100M+, you'll stop mining?
1145 2013-06-18 16:38:51 <flound1129> I think that's also referred to as "not having insurance"
1146 2013-06-18 16:38:53 <Mad7Scientist> correct
1147 2013-06-18 16:39:01 <sydna> having made a $600 loss
1148 2013-06-18 16:39:16 <Mad7Scientist> or $1800 win
1149 2013-06-18 16:39:17 bbrian has joined
1150 2013-06-18 16:39:47 <sydna> most likely a $600 loss. the difficulty is increasing faster than you can hash.
1151 2013-06-18 16:39:56 i2pRelay has quit (Quit: kytv)
1152 2013-06-18 16:40:05 <flound1129> butterfly labs is shipping, diff is going to skyrocket in the next 2 months
1153 2013-06-18 16:40:06 <melvster> well you can always mine alt coins if btc gets too hard
1154 2013-06-18 16:40:07 <Mad7Scientist> paying $100 to have a 1 in 12 chance of winning $2500 is well worth it
1155 2013-06-18 16:40:28 <sydna> or you could just stop being suspicious and join a pool.
1156 2013-06-18 16:40:50 <Mad7Scientist> and pay fees and deal with pool DoS downtime
1157 2013-06-18 16:40:57 <Mad7Scientist> even if they aren't cheating me
1158 2013-06-18 16:41:02 <melvster> and hacks
1159 2013-06-18 16:41:04 <flound1129> p2pool is free
1160 2013-06-18 16:41:22 <melvster> pools are regularly targeted by hackers
1161 2013-06-18 16:41:35 <Mad7Scientist> that may have been what happened to me and abcpool.co
1162 2013-06-18 16:41:49 <melvster> my pool was hacked twice at least
1163 2013-06-18 16:41:49 mikola has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1164 2013-06-18 16:41:49 <Mad7Scientist> my hash rate + payout was at 4/5 of my mining input for over 2 weeks
1165 2013-06-18 16:41:52 <Mad7Scientist> and I didn't notice
1166 2013-06-18 16:42:03 <sydna> because of luck!
1167 2013-06-18 16:42:08 <Mad7Scientist> no
1168 2013-06-18 16:42:12 <Mad7Scientist> it is PPS
1169 2013-06-18 16:42:29 <michagogo> ;;help gentime
1170 2013-06-18 16:42:29 <gribble> (gentime <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected time to generate a block using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
1171 2013-06-18 16:42:49 mikola has joined
1172 2013-06-18 16:42:49 <michagogo> ;;gentime 1.3 64
1173 2013-06-18 16:42:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1.3 Mhps, given difficulty of 64.0, is 2 days, 10 hours, 44 minutes, and 7 seconds
1174 2013-06-18 16:43:08 <sipa> can you take this to #bitcoin-mining or some other channel?
1175 2013-06-18 16:43:14 <Mad7Scientist> now
1176 2013-06-18 16:43:27 <Mad7Scientist> is there a backport of 0.7 that has the database size bug fixed?
1177 2013-06-18 16:43:37 <Mad7Scientist> remember when there was the fork
1178 2013-06-18 16:43:40 <michagogo> Mad7Scientist: Just change the size in the config file
1179 2013-06-18 16:43:41 <kjj> all of them. edit your config file
1180 2013-06-18 16:43:45 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist, just adjust the database config, no patching needed
1181 2013-06-18 16:43:46 <Mad7Scientist> and all miners had to upgrade
1182 2013-06-18 16:44:11 <sipa> i know that very well
1183 2013-06-18 16:44:12 <kjj> my pre-0.4 is still running strong with the updated configuration
1184 2013-06-18 16:44:22 <Mad7Scientist> in bitcoin.conf ?
1185 2013-06-18 16:44:37 <kjj> no, DB_CONFIG
1186 2013-06-18 16:44:45 <sipa> http://bitcoin.org/may15.html
1187 2013-06-18 16:44:47 <sipa> read that
1188 2013-06-18 16:44:47 <Mad7Scientist> an environmental variable?
1189 2013-06-18 16:44:49 <Mad7Scientist> ok
1190 2013-06-18 16:45:21 <sipa> no, read that
1191 2013-06-18 16:45:22 <kjj> where did the 537000 value come from?
1192 2013-06-18 16:45:42 <sipa> safe upper bound
1193 2013-06-18 16:45:43 <dugo> i think it is laudable that you want your setup to at least be capable of solo mining
1194 2013-06-18 16:46:37 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1195 2013-06-18 16:46:45 <Mad7Scientist> I won a block
1196 2013-06-18 16:46:51 <Mad7Scientist> already
1197 2013-06-18 16:46:56 <Mad7Scientist> in the last several months
1198 2013-06-18 16:46:59 <Mad7Scientist> it was great
1199 2013-06-18 16:47:24 <Mad7Scientist> but 0.7 is starting up now
1200 2013-06-18 16:47:50 ericmuyser has joined
1201 2013-06-18 16:47:50 <Mad7Scientist> It's going to take a long time to catch up on all those blocks that 0.8 put in a different place
1202 2013-06-18 16:48:09 <sipa> it will just take a long time to catch up
1203 2013-06-18 16:48:11 handle has quit (Quit: leaving)
1204 2013-06-18 16:48:14 Zoop_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1205 2013-06-18 16:48:17 <sipa> 0.7 is significantly slower than 0.8
1206 2013-06-18 16:48:39 <sipa> the fact that the blocks are in a different place doesn't matter, it's not the downloading that is slow
1207 2013-06-18 16:48:41 chorao has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1208 2013-06-18 16:49:26 cjsw3 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1209 2013-06-18 16:51:44 shuai has joined
1210 2013-06-18 16:52:11 <Mad7Scientist> write cache enabled!
1211 2013-06-18 16:52:18 <Mad7Scientist> no journal!
1212 2013-06-18 16:52:39 Zoop_ has joined
1213 2013-06-18 16:52:59 shuai has left ()
1214 2013-06-18 16:53:39 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1215 2013-06-18 16:54:01 cornfeedhobo has joined
1216 2013-06-18 16:55:04 Gnaf has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803])
1217 2013-06-18 16:55:17 <Mad7Scientist> about 1 block per second
1218 2013-06-18 16:55:20 <Mad7Scientist> 10,500 to go
1219 2013-06-18 16:56:48 <Mad7Scientist> 1.8GB of cache
1220 2013-06-18 16:57:31 clr_ has joined
1221 2013-06-18 16:59:06 <jgarzik> woah!
1222 2013-06-18 16:59:14 <jgarzik> 'keypoolrefill' RPC exists. How did I miss that?
1223 2013-06-18 16:59:44 <petertodd> That rules out one possible Satoshi candidate...
1224 2013-06-18 16:59:49 <jgarzik> just need to mod it, to accept a new keypool size
1225 2013-06-18 17:00:07 <jgarzik> petertodd, I'm a good programmer, so, definitely not Satoshi
1226 2013-06-18 17:00:09 * jgarzik runs
1227 2013-06-18 17:00:50 <petertodd> jgarzik: lol - I always thought the take home message about how Bitcoin was created is the inspirational message that just because you are a shitty programmer doesn't mean you can't change the world...
1228 2013-06-18 17:01:05 <jgarzik> hehehe
1229 2013-06-18 17:01:20 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
1230 2013-06-18 17:02:43 <sipa> jgarzik: ha, forgot about that rpc too
1231 2013-06-18 17:03:01 <petertodd> so you want keypoolrefil to act like it changes the value set by the -keypool=n arg?
1232 2013-06-18 17:03:26 <jgarzik> yes
1233 2013-06-18 17:03:32 <sipa> pfff
1234 2013-06-18 17:03:34 <jgarzik> though obviously it would be an until-restart change
1235 2013-06-18 17:03:41 <sipa> huh
1236 2013-06-18 17:03:42 <jgarzik> a quick pump up
1237 2013-06-18 17:03:44 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1238 2013-06-18 17:03:52 <sipa> ah, right
1239 2013-06-18 17:04:06 <sipa> i'd rather implement BIP32 key derivation instead
1240 2013-06-18 17:04:22 <kjj> I still think that refilling the keypool and backing up the wallet should be a single atomic action, rather than two distinct things
1241 2013-06-18 17:04:28 <petertodd> ACK if it's a simple change given the temporary nature
1242 2013-06-18 17:05:00 gjj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1243 2013-06-18 17:05:05 sacrelege has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1244 2013-06-18 17:05:07 <jgarzik> the change would be quite easy and non-intrusive. set keypool size in init.cpp, and store the value in a changeable variable.
1245 2013-06-18 17:05:11 <petertodd> sipa: is your plan to allow for multiple BIP32 seeds in your wallet?
1246 2013-06-18 17:05:23 <jgarzik> then 'keypoolrefill' RPC takes an optional size argument, changing that var
1247 2013-06-18 17:05:50 gjj has joined
1248 2013-06-18 17:06:00 <sipa> petertodd: no, but i do plan the ability to change the seed, or have non-deterministic key independently of that
1249 2013-06-18 17:06:32 gfawkes has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
1250 2013-06-18 17:06:55 <petertodd> sipa: just thinking it'd be good to offer the option to recover from key compromise, while still having the ability to scan the chain for new payments to old addresses
1251 2013-06-18 17:07:47 <sipa> petertodd: i plan to just have individual keys in the wallet as before; only how new ones are generated changes
1252 2013-06-18 17:08:02 <sydna> petertodd: you'd end up in a situation that Electrum has encountered a few times. people believing that their seed will recover the whole wallets, while retaining a large balance in ones they've imported
1253 2013-06-18 17:08:05 <sipa> plus some logic that gets executed when payments to an address are used
1254 2013-06-18 17:08:38 <sydna> petertodd: wouldn't it be more logical to sweep the funds into a new HD address rather than just importing them?
1255 2013-06-18 17:08:52 clr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1256 2013-06-18 17:09:11 <sipa> it may make sense to know whether your wallet is "pure" (=entirely derived from a seed)
1257 2013-06-18 17:09:13 gfawkes has joined
1258 2013-06-18 17:09:16 <sipa> so that a seed backup is enough
1259 2013-06-18 17:09:48 <petertodd> sydna: that's what I mean - it'd have to be part of auto-sweep for users to use it properly
1260 2013-06-18 17:10:49 <petertodd> sipa: yeah, the UI should have a way of making that clear, like something that tells you how many coins are in what wallets, where wallet == HD seed (+ transactions)
1261 2013-06-18 17:11:11 <The_Fly> <@jgarzik> 'keypoolrefill' RPC exists. How did I miss that?
1262 2013-06-18 17:11:22 <The_Fly> also did not spot this!
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1264 2013-06-18 17:11:56 <petertodd> Doesn't have to happen immediately, but long term the UI should have a clear thing at startup so users implement a backup plan and understand what is being protected.
1265 2013-06-18 17:13:19 clr_ has joined
1266 2013-06-18 17:13:58 <sipa> petertodd: I think we should aim for a design that is safe without needing the user to break the abstraction
1267 2013-06-18 17:14:07 <sydna> I thought for a second that you'd be able to show an indicator next to backed up addresses, but bitcoin-qt doesn't show the change ones. you'd make more trouble with "lost" funds.
1268 2013-06-18 17:14:08 gfawkes has joined
1269 2013-06-18 17:14:15 <michagogo> If you start bitcoin with keypool=10000 (for example) and then, once it's generated 10000 keys, start it with keypool=100
1270 2013-06-18 17:14:31 <michagogo> Will it just not generate until it gets within 100 of the end, or will it shrink your wallet?
1271 2013-06-18 17:14:45 i2pRelay has joined
1272 2013-06-18 17:14:46 <sipa> petertodd: i'd rather have a "Backup wallet..." option that is always safe, or a "Backup seed..." that is only available when the wallet is pure
1273 2013-06-18 17:15:26 <sydna> sipa: and a comfortable third "sweep funds to HD seed" button, though it would need a snazzier name
1274 2013-06-18 17:15:29 <petertodd> sipa: See, I'd say that's too complex, because to a user, WTF is a seed?
1275 2013-06-18 17:16:38 chorao has joined
1276 2013-06-18 17:17:39 <sydna> avoiding calling it a "seed" would probably be beneficial
1277 2013-06-18 17:17:49 <sipa> petertodd: needs User Experience Designer input
1278 2013-06-18 17:18:16 <sipa> petertodd: if users didn't want paper wallet/brainwallets, I'd just only have "Backup wallet" and be done with it
1279 2013-06-18 17:18:34 <petertodd> Mind you, there is another problem: are we assuming SPV or full-node operation? Because long-term it may be impractical to scan the full chain anyway due to bandwidth, so we should agressively design to assume that it may not be possible to reuse addresses... which is a really ugly problem and needs a lot of payment protocol magic.
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1281 2013-06-18 17:19:16 <sipa> i see the "guaranteed not to lose funds" ability of deterministic wallets as a last resort
1282 2013-06-18 17:19:23 <sipa> you should have good wallet backups in the first place
1283 2013-06-18 17:19:39 <sipa> as wallet can contain quite a bit more than just keys
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1285 2013-06-18 17:20:38 <petertodd> sipa: Well, the big question is if "Backup wallet" is something you need to do periodically. So the logic is that with HD keys, you only need to backup once, modulo losing transactions... which we need to think about.
1286 2013-06-18 17:20:58 <sipa> yeah, i don't know the best solution
1287 2013-06-18 17:21:14 <petertodd> sipa: I guess you could say that an unconfirmed tx puts your wallet into the theoretical state of "you might lose x BTC if your computer dies right now"
1288 2013-06-18 17:21:29 execut3 has joined
1289 2013-06-18 17:21:30 <sipa> there's also the question of whether you want a full-wallet backup, or just the keys in it
1290 2013-06-18 17:21:49 <sipa> more an "export/import" function than a backup function
1291 2013-06-18 17:21:59 <sipa> but some people will certainly use it as backup
1292 2013-06-18 17:21:59 <petertodd> Which comes down to the idea of what's the biggest re-org we'll design for?
1293 2013-06-18 17:23:21 <sipa> how is that relevant?
1294 2013-06-18 17:24:04 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1295 2013-06-18 17:24:15 <petertodd> Saving confirmed txs in your wallet is only needed in the event of a re-org.
1296 2013-06-18 17:24:39 <sipa> right
1297 2013-06-18 17:25:00 <sipa> but not saving them is much more trouble too
1298 2013-06-18 17:25:10 <sipa> but indeed, only then strictly required
1299 2013-06-18 17:26:15 <petertodd> Mainly I'm thinking about backup size - we do want to keep it small, and if increasing size has even a small effect on discouraging backups we've probably done a lot more damage than the tiny chance of a big reorg.
1300 2013-06-18 17:26:43 <sydna> may I suggest that the backup *doesn't* contain the public keys in plaintext?
1301 2013-06-18 17:26:54 <sipa> there is always the secure-plus-unsecure solution
1302 2013-06-18 17:27:16 <petertodd> sipa: what do you mean?
1303 2013-06-18 17:27:26 Gnaf has joined
1304 2013-06-18 17:27:40 <sipa> where addresses/transactions/bip32data/... is stored separately from the (few) seeds/keys necessary to get all key material
1305 2013-06-18 17:27:42 Namworld has joined
1306 2013-06-18 17:27:49 <sipa> the former can be in dropbox or whatever
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1308 2013-06-18 17:29:23 <petertodd> Well, in that case what we would tell users is that your "seed backup" contains everything required to get your funds back for any confirmed transfer. (*) *) except in really rare circumstances
1309 2013-06-18 17:29:41 sneak has joined
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1312 2013-06-18 17:29:51 <petertodd> The chance of a re-org + your computer dieing at the same time is pretty low.
1313 2013-06-18 17:30:49 <sipa> the user interface part of all this needs to be well though-out
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1316 2013-06-18 17:31:49 <petertodd> Yeah, especially since we also have to think how hardware wallets will integrate into this.
1317 2013-06-18 17:32:05 <petertodd> Good funding project for the Bitcoin foundation one day...
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1332 2013-06-18 17:51:09 <michagogo> If you start bitcoin with keypool=10000 (for example) and then, once it's generated 10000 keys, start it with keypool=100, will it just not generate until it gets within 100 of the end, or will it shrink your wallet?
1333 2013-06-18 17:51:22 <Habbie> it will not shrink your wallet
1334 2013-06-18 17:51:40 <gmaxwell> michagogo: it will just not generate until it gets within 100 of the end
1335 2013-06-18 17:51:54 * michagogo guessed that
1336 2013-06-18 17:51:55 PrimeStunna has joined
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1338 2013-06-18 17:52:00 savetheinternet has joined
1339 2013-06-18 17:52:28 <michagogo> Is there a limit to what the keypool=foo option can be set to
1340 2013-06-18 17:52:29 <michagogo> ?
1341 2013-06-18 17:53:19 <gmaxwell> I've tested 100k and run with 10k. It starts getting slow, presumably with a sufficiently large number something might start breaking.
1342 2013-06-18 17:54:02 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1343 2013-06-18 17:54:04 <michagogo> What type of number is that?
1344 2013-06-18 17:54:20 <michagogo> 32-bit signed? unsigned? something else?
1345 2013-06-18 17:54:46 daybyter has joined
1346 2013-06-18 17:54:52 <michagogo> Also, say someone were to have a keypool of 1000000. Is there any way they could shrink that wallet down?
1347 2013-06-18 17:55:27 Julius129 has quit ()
1348 2013-06-18 17:55:42 metabyte_ is now known as metabyte
1349 2013-06-18 17:57:49 <gmaxwell> michagogo: it doesn't matter what that particular parameter is, you need to worry about all the iteration over the keypool everwhere in the codebase.
1350 2013-06-18 17:58:03 <gmaxwell> And no, there is currently no way to shrink it down.
1351 2013-06-18 17:58:14 <michagogo> Note to self: don't try it to see what happens
1352 2013-06-18 17:58:29 richcollins has joined
1353 2013-06-18 17:58:36 <richcollins> join #node-fibers
1354 2013-06-18 17:58:49 <michagogo> richcollins: try a / in front of that
1355 2013-06-18 17:59:03 <richcollins> michagogo: yes typo ;-)
1356 2013-06-18 18:00:10 melvster has joined
1357 2013-06-18 18:01:04 <michagogo> I wonder if it's possible to figure out just by reading the code what the maximum is before things start actually breaking
1358 2013-06-18 18:01:20 <gmaxwell> michagogo: it's certantly possible.
1359 2013-06-18 18:01:29 <michagogo> s/possible/feasible/
1360 2013-06-18 18:01:33 <gmaxwell> but I expect things would be unusuably slow _long_ before they'd actually break.
1361 2013-06-18 18:01:56 <michagogo> What kind of operation needs to iterate ovet the *entire* keypool?
1362 2013-06-18 18:02:01 <michagogo> over*
1363 2013-06-18 18:03:26 <gmaxwell> "Needs"
1364 2013-06-18 18:03:30 <sipa> michagogo: verifyig keys at startup
1365 2013-06-18 18:04:01 <michagogo> What is it verifying?
1366 2013-06-18 18:04:42 <michagogo> Just that they're valid and not corrupt?
1367 2013-06-18 18:05:11 <sipa> yes, it actually chrcks that the pubkeys match the privkeys
1368 2013-06-18 18:05:18 <sipa> which is relatively slow
1369 2013-06-18 18:05:25 <sipa> as it requires EC math
1370 2013-06-18 18:05:36 <michagogo> Actually, are the keypool addresses also counted for checking each transaction for "is it mine"?
1371 2013-06-18 18:05:41 <michagogo> I guess they'd have to be
1372 2013-06-18 18:05:55 daybyter has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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1374 2013-06-18 18:06:24 <sipa> yes
1375 2013-06-18 18:06:35 <sipa> but that is a log(n) operation
1376 2013-06-18 18:06:35 <michagogo> Better question: in what ways does the code distinguish between a keypool address versus an address that's been given to the user?
1377 2013-06-18 18:06:51 <sipa> the fact that it's marked as a keypool address
1378 2013-06-18 18:07:09 <sipa> there's a third type that is neither btw: change addresses
1379 2013-06-18 18:08:08 <michagogo> I don't mean how is it flagged, I mean, in what way(s) does the code treat them differently?
1380 2013-06-18 18:08:48 <sipa> not in any way
1381 2013-06-18 18:08:54 <michagogo> Ah, I see
1382 2013-06-18 18:09:06 <sipa> it's just keys stored in the wallet
1383 2013-06-18 18:09:12 <sipa> and they are all treated equally
1384 2013-06-18 18:09:32 <sipa> except when you request a new address, the oldest one in the keypool is taken
1385 2013-06-18 18:09:57 <michagogo> So the only thing the flags are used for is, if it's given out, it's displayed, if it's keypool, it counts for the size of the keypool, and it it's change, it's neither
1386 2013-06-18 18:10:06 <michagogo> if it's change*
1387 2013-06-18 18:10:09 <michagogo> Is that right?
1388 2013-06-18 18:12:39 <sipa> it's given out if it has an assoviated label
1389 2013-06-18 18:12:48 <sipa> but indeed
1390 2013-06-18 18:15:10 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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1393 2013-06-18 18:19:34 <michagogo> sipa: Ah, so (no label) is an actual label, not just a default placeholder text?
1394 2013-06-18 18:19:49 <michagogo> Or is it that it has a label of ""?
1395 2013-06-18 18:21:45 <sydna> has anybody ever written a script to "mine" transaction IDs?
1396 2013-06-18 18:21:58 reneg has joined
1397 2013-06-18 18:22:03 <sydna> completely pointless of course, but it would be fun to have lots of TXID starting with BEEF
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1401 2013-06-18 18:26:02 <jgarzik> gah
1402 2013-06-18 18:26:12 <jgarzik> I hate adding global vars to main. Need globals.cpp ;-)
1403 2013-06-18 18:26:14 * jgarzik runs
1404 2013-06-18 18:26:35 <gmaxwell> dogpoop.cpp
1405 2013-06-18 18:27:55 <swulf--> heh
1406 2013-06-18 18:28:35 <gmaxwell> (though meh, on some things I've worked on strong cultural aversion to globals seems to have frequently resulted in things like "ctx" structs that are passed _everywhere_ and is functional equal to a global, but with more pointer indirection. :P)
1407 2013-06-18 18:28:40 emryss has joined
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1409 2013-06-18 18:29:10 <swulf--> isn't everything at some level functionally equivelent to a "global", if you consider RAM a flat structure?
1410 2013-06-18 18:29:57 <gmaxwell> swulf--: No. And in C (/++) ram is not a flat structure.
1411 2013-06-18 18:30:19 <swulf--> just because you've sectioned it off into .data, .rodata, or what-have-you, doesn't make it not a flat structure.
1412 2013-06-18 18:30:48 <swulf--> and FWIW, "RAM" doesn't change depending on the programming language you use. Maybe your interpretation of RAM changes, but RAM remains the same.
1413 2013-06-18 18:31:03 <gmaxwell> swulf--: feel free to fill your code with undefined behavior, I will munch my popcorn and laugh.
1414 2013-06-18 18:31:11 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1415 2013-06-18 18:31:20 <jgarzik> vi +1538 wallet.cpp
1416 2013-06-18 18:31:24 <jgarzik> er, oops
1417 2013-06-18 18:31:30 <swulf--> sorry, didn't mean to insinuate some version of code was better based on some philosophical discussion on globals...
1418 2013-06-18 18:32:21 <execut3> gmaxwell, it still has advantages over a global
1419 2013-06-18 18:32:53 <gmaxwell> swulf--: that wasn't what I was saying. I'm saying that C derrived languages are not a pretty macro assembler. And it's really not acceptable to pretend that it is, if you do you'll produce code which gets optimized to behave in ways you find surprising.
1420 2013-06-18 18:33:08 <gmaxwell> execut3: some, yes, though also some disadvantages.
1421 2013-06-18 18:33:10 <sipa> michagogo: no label is label=""
1422 2013-06-18 18:33:19 <jgarzik> Yeah, as with any programming practice, it's all about balance, not slavishly following the local coding style rules in absence of good sense and good taste.
1423 2013-06-18 18:33:28 <jgarzik> We just have too much crap in main
1424 2013-06-18 18:33:37 <jgarzik> (thanks CodeShark for helping clean that up)
1425 2013-06-18 18:33:43 <michagogo> sydna: You mean vanity txids?
1426 2013-06-18 18:33:53 <sydna> michagogo: I do
1427 2013-06-18 18:33:57 <gmaxwell> yea, global usage in bitcoin is not what I would do for sure. But balance is important.
1428 2013-06-18 18:33:59 <michagogo> What is there to use as a nonce?
1429 2013-06-18 18:34:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: there are very distinct problems associated with globals
1430 2013-06-18 18:34:26 <sydna> michagogo: the signature is different every signing
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1432 2013-06-18 18:34:39 <michagogo> o_O
1433 2013-06-18 18:34:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: namespaces is one you can solve with well... c++ namespaces
1434 2013-06-18 18:35:08 <sipa> but that doesn't make the code for example re-entrant
1435 2013-06-18 18:35:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: sure but having some morally global context you're passing around doesn't either. :P
1436 2013-06-18 18:35:39 <sipa> which is something a ctx struct can help with, but it can still result in ugly dependencies and doesn't solve that
1437 2013-06-18 18:35:41 <sydna> michagogo: the scriptSig is random, to be exact. if you used the same seed every time, you'd open your private keys up
1438 2013-06-18 18:35:47 <gmaxwell> Right.
1439 2013-06-18 18:35:53 tubby2 has joined
1440 2013-06-18 18:36:50 <sydna> michagogo: there was a blog post recently that abused an older client (I think) that created two TXs with the same seed, they successfully recovered the private key based on that.
1441 2013-06-18 18:36:57 <gmaxwell> Yea, don't get me wrong. My own codeâ /me checksâ never uses globals except for random quick performance counter hacks or the like. I'm just skeptical that avoiding for avoiding sake is a material improvement. :)
1442 2013-06-18 18:36:57 <michagogo> o_O
1443 2013-06-18 18:37:05 sacrelege has joined
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1445 2013-06-18 18:37:50 <sydna> michagogo: if you want to drop yourself into some heavy math â http://www.nilsschneider.net/2013/01/28/recovering-bitcoin-private-keys.html
1446 2013-06-18 18:38:03 Silverion has joined
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1448 2013-06-18 18:39:18 <sydna> lets hope the Trezor hardware wallet uses a strong seed ;)
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1454 2013-06-18 18:40:00 <sipa> sydna: you don't actually need randomness at signing time
1455 2013-06-18 18:40:14 <sipa> sydna: in fact, a mode for using that was recently merged in openssl
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1457 2013-06-18 18:40:34 <sipa> the idea is using hash(message+privkey) as nonce
1458 2013-06-18 18:41:32 <sydna> sipa: ah, I hadn't considered that. I'm assuming that bitcoin uses that implementation?
1459 2013-06-18 18:41:35 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1460 2013-06-18 18:42:21 <sipa> no
1461 2013-06-18 18:42:32 <sipa> by just merged i mean just merged
1462 2013-06-18 18:42:39 <sipa> as in: not in any release
1463 2013-06-18 18:42:53 <sydna> gotcha.
1464 2013-06-18 18:43:08 <sipa> like a few days ago
1465 2013-06-18 18:43:58 <sydna> I'll revise my comment then, I hope the Tezor hardware wallet ends up using a release that does have that in it
1466 2013-06-18 18:44:04 santoscork has joined
1467 2013-06-18 18:44:16 <michagogo> What's the difference between "Account has insufficient funds (code -6)" and "Insufficient funds (code -4)"?
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1472 2013-06-18 18:44:50 <sipa> heh
1473 2013-06-18 18:44:52 <michagogo> Also, how come sendtoaddress doesn't allow a minconf parameter?
1474 2013-06-18 18:45:06 <sipa> it automatically decides
1475 2013-06-18 18:45:23 <sipa> if it is possible to find coins with conf=6, it does
1476 2013-06-18 18:45:34 <sipa> otherwise it tries conf=1
1477 2013-06-18 18:45:39 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1478 2013-06-18 18:45:42 <michagogo> Does it try conf=0?
1479 2013-06-18 18:46:02 <sipa> and if thatbfails it tries conf=1 for external receives, and conf=0 for internal
1480 2013-06-18 18:46:20 <michagogo> internal == change or send to myself?
1481 2013-06-18 18:46:23 <sipa> indeed
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1490 2013-06-18 18:47:49 <michagogo> [21:21:52] <sipa> and if thatbfails it tries conf=1 for external receives, and conf=0 for internal
1491 2013-06-18 18:47:49 <michagogo> [21:22:09] <michagogo> internal == change or send to myself?
1492 2013-06-18 18:47:49 <michagogo> [21:22:39] * Disconnected
1493 2013-06-18 18:48:37 Muis_ has joined
1494 2013-06-18 18:48:59 <sipa> exactly that
1495 2013-06-18 18:49:55 <michagogo> sipa: Is there any way to send conf=0 coins that came from external?
1496 2013-06-18 18:50:16 <sipa> no
1497 2013-06-18 18:50:19 <michagogo> (in the satoshi client, I mean -- I know such a transaction can exist)
1498 2013-06-18 18:50:21 <sipa> that's very dangerous
1499 2013-06-18 18:50:21 <michagogo> I see.
1500 2013-06-18 18:50:34 <sipa> as it can lead to chains of reverted transactions
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1503 2013-06-18 18:50:45 <michagogo> You should consider lifting that restriction on testnet
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1505 2013-06-18 18:51:22 Muis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1507 2013-06-18 18:51:23 <sydna> the idea is that the testnet acts just like the real one
1508 2013-06-18 18:51:25 <sipa> maybe one day we can have an experimentalnet dat differs from testnet
1509 2013-06-18 18:51:48 <michagogo> sydna: Pretty sure testnet has some differences
1510 2013-06-18 18:51:54 root2 has joined
1511 2013-06-18 18:52:06 <sydna> from memory the main difference is related to the difficulty
1512 2013-06-18 18:52:08 debiantoruser has joined
1513 2013-06-18 18:52:08 <michagogo> SOmething about some transaction types being accepted on testnet but rejected on mainnet
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1519 2013-06-18 18:53:46 <sydna> according to the wiki at least, there's no differences other than the difficulty is lower
1520 2013-06-18 18:53:56 <sydna> oh no, you're right
1521 2013-06-18 18:54:02 <sydna> "The IsStandard() check is disabled so that non-standard transactions can be experimented with."
1522 2013-06-18 18:56:33 <jgarzik> though really, that's not necessary
1523 2013-06-18 18:56:39 <jgarzik> mining is so easy, you can mine your own
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1529 2013-06-18 19:00:26 <michagogo> sipa: Actually, now that I think about it, having a chain of reverted transactions would be an important scenario to test
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1531 2013-06-18 19:00:30 <michagogo> Would it not?
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1535 2013-06-18 19:03:07 <jgarzik> "The final difference is in security. Litecoin is orders of magnitude more secure than Bitcoin, due to its use of a cryptography technique called scrypt, which makes it very costly to attack due to the large amounts of memory involved."
1536 2013-06-18 19:03:09 <jgarzik> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/16/litecoin
1537 2013-06-18 19:03:18 <jgarzik> love it
1538 2013-06-18 19:03:20 * sydna hangs head
1539 2013-06-18 19:03:20 <sipa> facepalm
1540 2013-06-18 19:03:28 <michagogo> lol
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1542 2013-06-18 19:03:34 <gmaxwell> pump pump pump your coin
1543 2013-06-18 19:04:10 <sydna> http://web.archive.org/web/20111102161925/http://litecoin.org/
1544 2013-06-18 19:04:18 <sydna> "Scrypt uses the low-latency cache memory of modern processors to provide greater hash-speeds on CPUs in comparison to GPUs."
1545 2013-06-18 19:04:43 <sipa> well that is teue for litecoin's scrypt
1546 2013-06-18 19:05:08 Muis_ is now known as Muis
1547 2013-06-18 19:05:22 <sydna> the original pitch was that it wouldn't work at all on GPUs
1548 2013-06-18 19:07:15 <tgs3> sipa: litc minest faster on good GPU then good CPU agair
1549 2013-06-18 19:07:17 <tgs3> *afair
1550 2013-06-18 19:08:11 <tgs3> also "faster"... if I meant the faster in EUR/month, the it matches bitcoin for GPU, and on CPU ltc is a bit below profitability or close to it
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1553 2013-06-18 19:10:42 <jgarzik> I wish there was an honest comparison written up somewhere
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1568 2013-06-18 19:33:05 <egis> morning, can someone explain this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proper_Money_Handling_%28JSON-RPC%29 for 5 year old? :/
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1570 2013-06-18 19:33:51 <sydna> make sure your code can handle 8 decimal places of precision.
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1574 2013-06-18 19:35:22 <egis> sydna, I'm basically not touching received values from jsonrpcc. Just json_decode()'ing and I'm getting floats (php). So am I on the right track? Also when sending to bitcoind I'm just json_encode()'ing float values.
1575 2013-06-18 19:36:02 <egis> by "not touching" I mean not doing any rounding by myself.
1576 2013-06-18 19:36:58 <sydna> someone else might be able to confirm for you, but I don't believe you'll have any issues
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1578 2013-06-18 19:37:22 <egis> sydna, thanks!
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1581 2013-06-18 19:40:04 <sydna> the main troubles I've seen people get themselves into with PHP involve user input
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1584 2013-06-18 19:45:40 <Ry4an> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3730019/why-not-use-double-or-float-to-represent-currency
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1589 2013-06-18 19:46:50 <Ry4an> egis: even if you're not rounding php's representation of a float probably is.
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1596 2013-06-18 20:00:52 <matjeh> is there a block explorer/abe online for testnet3, which is up to date?
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1615 2013-06-18 20:25:27 <mhanne> matjeh: http://test.webbtc.com/
1616 2013-06-18 20:25:36 <mhanne> also has problems sometimes, but i try to keep it up to date
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1618 2013-06-18 20:26:51 <sipa> egis: that should be fine - the double data type is accurate enough to represent bitcoin amounts without loss of precision
1619 2013-06-18 20:27:08 <egis> Ry4an and sipa, thanks :)
1620 2013-06-18 20:27:12 <sipa> egis: as soon as you modify or process them in any way, you should conver them to integers, however
1621 2013-06-18 20:27:36 <egis> sipa, got it
1622 2013-06-18 20:27:43 <matjeh> mhanne: excellent, thanks
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1624 2013-06-18 20:28:37 <egis> and convert back to double by doing `$int / 1e8`?
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1626 2013-06-18 20:35:00 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1627 2013-06-18 20:35:17 <michagogo> Whoa... Massive testnet transaction just got broadcast
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1632 2013-06-18 20:44:37 <sipa> TD[gone]: transactions can have additional data that gets relayed? :o
1633 2013-06-18 20:44:45 <sipa> not AFAICT
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1638 2013-06-18 20:51:07 <jaromil> jgarzik: you are coding platforms for the future of money... wrong plan if you intended to read "honest comparisons" :P
1639 2013-06-18 20:53:22 gjj has joined
1640 2013-06-18 20:54:29 <jgarzik> jaromil, hah :)
1641 2013-06-18 20:56:09 <sipa> what is this thing called 'unbiased'?
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1643 2013-06-18 20:56:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: it has zero mean.
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1647 2013-06-18 20:59:36 <sipa> ha
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1655 2013-06-18 21:04:16 <jgarzik> :)
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1657 2013-06-18 21:05:01 <jaromil> guys, silly question: is there anyone that managed to get bitcoin addresses containing readable strings?
1658 2013-06-18 21:05:09 <jaromil> i did not think hard before posing this question
1659 2013-06-18 21:05:19 <jaromil> was just browsing this http://sms4tor3vcr2geip.onion/faq/
1660 2013-06-18 21:05:38 <jaromil> and clearly this people managed to do that with a tor hash (their service is called sms4tor)
1661 2013-06-18 21:05:59 <jaromil> doubt arised when looking at their bitcoin donation address, which contains the word "pay"
1662 2013-06-18 21:06:15 <sipa> jaromil: sure, it's called vanity addresses, and there's a tool called vanitygen to mine them
1663 2013-06-18 21:06:18 <sipa> including on GPUs
1664 2013-06-18 21:06:33 <jaromil> ack. would be surprised if there wasn't :) ok
1665 2013-06-18 21:06:33 <sipa> afaik, there's even a pool to combine efforts for doing so...
1666 2013-06-18 21:07:18 <sipa> somewhere last year i believe it was actually more profitable to mine vanity addresses (it can be done securely, through an EC trick) than mining BTC...
1667 2013-06-18 21:07:57 <jaromil> i see... https://github.com/lachesis/scallion <- based on vanitygen
1668 2013-06-18 21:08:28 <jaromil> funny
1669 2013-06-18 21:08:44 <jaromil> s/based/inspired
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1700 2013-06-18 21:50:43 <jimmy2k> how long can it take to get the 2. and 3. confirmation?
1701 2013-06-18 21:50:51 <jimmy2k> for larger amounts
1702 2013-06-18 21:51:09 <jimmy2k> is there an upper bound for time?
1703 2013-06-18 21:51:24 <sipa> the first confirmation is when the transaction is included in a block
1704 2013-06-18 21:51:31 <sipa> every new block on top of a that is a new confirmation
1705 2013-06-18 21:51:39 <sipa> the transaction itself doesn't matter at all anymore
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1710 2013-06-18 21:53:34 <jimmy2k> thx
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1714 2013-06-18 22:02:53 <MC1984> hey guys
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1716 2013-06-18 22:03:20 <MC1984> if you put a testnet wallet into a mainnet directory, will or wont it trigger a rescan on start
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1718 2013-06-18 22:03:58 <sipa> git head should just abort
1719 2013-06-18 22:04:06 <sipa> older versions may go all crazy
1720 2013-06-18 22:04:47 <sipa> oh wait no
1721 2013-06-18 22:04:50 <BlueMatt> cant go home until test-cases pass...shit, its 11:40...comment out test-cases, hey no failures!
1722 2013-06-18 22:05:01 <sipa> it will abort if you use a testnet datadir
1723 2013-06-18 22:05:08 <sipa> wallet... good question!
1724 2013-06-18 22:05:43 <MC1984> not datadir, just wallet
1725 2013-06-18 22:06:01 <sipa> i expect it will rescan yes
1726 2013-06-18 22:06:12 <sipa> or crash
1727 2013-06-18 22:06:27 <MC1984> so rescanning or not is not a good way to tell what sort of wallet it is
1728 2013-06-18 22:06:29 <MC1984> test or main
1729 2013-06-18 22:07:01 <sipa> of course not
1730 2013-06-18 22:07:13 <sipa> it should abort when loading the wallet, i'd say
1731 2013-06-18 22:07:15 <MC1984> what is a good way to tell
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1733 2013-06-18 22:11:34 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1734 2013-06-18 22:11:35 <MC1984> like, how do you tell if a random wallet.dat is a test or main wallet
1735 2013-06-18 22:11:50 molecular has joined
1736 2013-06-18 22:13:18 <sipa> well, the addresses in the address book are stored as base58 encoded afaik
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1739 2013-06-18 22:14:20 <MC1984> are there no actual differences between the two types, apart from addresses which could also belong to either test or main net
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1742 2013-06-18 22:17:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, hah, that's how I did NFSv4 development
1743 2013-06-18 22:17:31 <jgarzik> Start with 100% tests failing, comment out test cases until things start to pass ;p
1744 2013-06-18 22:17:40 * BlueMatt -> home, to fix jenkins/pull-tester (which have been frozen for days)
1745 2013-06-18 22:17:43 <BlueMatt> yep
1746 2013-06-18 22:18:04 * jgarzik needs to get back to his distributed NFSv4 project
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1749 2013-06-18 22:22:04 <Transisto> can I have a hint why this transaction doesn't go though ? sent from mtGox 1 hours ago, fee paid, not included in the last two block,
1750 2013-06-18 22:22:18 <Transisto> https://blockchain.info/tx/add95fd6176a885d468403aa0c90afdef41d69ac52a4143610af0f4f0a554562
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1754 2013-06-18 22:25:59 <Transisto> are there many pools that decided not to accept TX with 0.0005 BTC ?
1755 2013-06-18 22:26:08 <Transisto> (fees)
1756 2013-06-18 22:26:23 <sipa> it depends on many factors
1757 2013-06-18 22:26:32 <jgarzik> midnightmagic, You have a gift for a turn of phrase
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1759 2013-06-18 22:27:37 <Transisto> I don't see which factor that could be in this case.
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1761 2013-06-18 22:27:58 <Transisto> TX is very small
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1766 2013-06-18 22:33:15 <Transisto> it just got included, but I'm still curious as it happen relatively often
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1783 2013-06-18 23:00:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: re: " tx messages are allowed to have arbitrary data appended after them that gets relayed." I havent looked it up, but are you sure we actually check that?
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1785 2013-06-18 23:01:13 <BlueMatt> if a message has extra data and we never check that msglen == txlen then it will be relayed
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1790 2013-06-18 23:05:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, a fair question
1791 2013-06-18 23:06:02 <BlueMatt> also, can we scrap the util_seed_insecure_rand test, its buggy (appears to just be testing how random it looks, and thus, obviously, randomly fails)
1792 2013-06-18 23:06:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, I don't see how the extra data will get relayed
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1797 2013-06-18 23:06:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: txn are not re-serialized before relay
1798 2013-06-18 23:07:02 <BlueMatt> afair the CDataStream is just stored and re-relayed
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1800 2013-06-18 23:07:27 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, TX is accepted into the mempool, and inv's sent out. Upon request, served from mempool.
1801 2013-06-18 23:07:40 <jgarzik> I don't _think_ CTransaction caches its serialization?
1802 2013-06-18 23:07:40 <BlueMatt> nope
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1805 2013-06-18 23:07:44 <BlueMatt> it does
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1807 2013-06-18 23:07:54 <BlueMatt> check RelayTransaction()
1808 2013-06-18 23:08:01 <BlueMatt> and, in tx processing
1809 2013-06-18 23:08:02 <BlueMatt> CDataStream vMsg(vRecv);
1810 2013-06-18 23:08:03 egis has joined
1811 2013-06-18 23:08:13 <BlueMatt> (copies the full message buffer and stores vMsg for relay later)
1812 2013-06-18 23:09:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, tx << vRecv
1813 2013-06-18 23:09:27 <BlueMatt> ok...
1814 2013-06-18 23:09:31 <phantomcircuit> in ProcessMessages
1815 2013-06-18 23:09:34 <BlueMatt> yes
1816 2013-06-18 23:09:35 <phantomcircuit> is where it's copied
1817 2013-06-18 23:09:42 <BlueMatt> but tx isnt what is relayed
1818 2013-06-18 23:09:43 <BlueMatt> vMsg is
1819 2013-06-18 23:10:05 <BlueMatt> iirc, that is
1820 2013-06-18 23:10:15 <BlueMatt> ie unless someone has touched that code since bloom filters
1821 2013-06-18 23:10:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: how often is it failing? IIRC I intended to set the criteria high enough that there was e.g. 1/2^128 chance in observing failure (well it couldn't actually be that low given the structure of the rng). Obviously I could have suffered math fail.
1822 2013-06-18 23:10:45 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I believe Ive seen it a total of +/- 4 times
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1824 2013-06-18 23:10:46 <egis> how does blockexplorer.com shows `getreceivedbyaddress` of external addresses?
1825 2013-06-18 23:11:08 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1826 2013-06-18 23:11:17 <gmaxwell> I wanted to have something in there that would actually catch crap like the bullshit RNG that those go-bitcoin people used in their OS that was breaking coin selection; should someone go replace the rng.
1827 2013-06-18 23:11:20 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: between pull-tester/jenkins/locally
1828 2013-06-18 23:11:34 <phantomcircuit> ha you're right
1829 2013-06-18 23:11:36 <phantomcircuit> that's funny
1830 2013-06-18 23:12:01 <The_Fly> :)
1831 2013-06-18 23:12:36 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: or just make it on run the constant tests, not the seeded ones.
1832 2013-06-18 23:12:53 * BlueMatt -> bed, if your pull fails with a util_seed_insecure_rand test failure, ping and Ill reset it
1833 2013-06-18 23:12:54 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, what about their RNG?
1834 2013-06-18 23:12:57 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: sure, do as you like
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1837 2013-06-18 23:13:45 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: or leave it and just set the prob of failure lower
1838 2013-06-18 23:15:46 <petertodd> sipa: So basically, we already have a flood-fill arbitrary data distribution mechanism, and what's worse, is the DoS code wouldn't be properly "billing" for it because that is based on the serialized size of the tx, not the message.
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1840 2013-06-18 23:16:33 <phantomcircuit> petertodd, it probably doesn't really matter though
1841 2013-06-18 23:16:41 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: Why?
1842 2013-06-18 23:16:54 <phantomcircuit> it's not processed in any way so it's just consuming bandwidth
1843 2013-06-18 23:17:08 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: Yes, and consuming bandwidth is a serious problem.
1844 2013-06-18 23:17:16 <phantomcircuit> the receive buffer controls already prevent excessive bandwidth usage
1845 2013-06-18 23:17:37 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: How do they do that? (I've never looked)
1846 2013-06-18 23:18:18 <phantomcircuit> there is a receive buffer, if it's being processed slower than you're receiving data then it will go over a limit and the connection will be dropped
1847 2013-06-18 23:18:35 <phantomcircuit> iirc that sets a DoS score for the peer
1848 2013-06-18 23:18:54 <phantomcircuit> this really only prevents ludicrous bandwidth attacks though
1849 2013-06-18 23:19:10 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: openbsd fork with a system rand() that only gave even numbers.
1850 2013-06-18 23:19:17 <phantomcircuit> i suspect you could still use up tens of mbps for even the slowest possible bitcoind
1851 2013-06-18 23:19:19 <gmaxwell> And selectcoins was using the least significant bit...
1852 2013-06-18 23:19:22 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: Yes, processed slower, but that means I can peg bandwidth usage to 100%, and probably crowd out other tx's at the same time.
1853 2013-06-18 23:19:51 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, LOL
1854 2013-06-18 23:20:08 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: I could also likely delay block propagation for everyone else - good way to up my profit margins if I'm the largest pool as orphans affect you inversely proportional to your hash rate.
1855 2013-06-18 23:20:16 <phantomcircuit> hmm actually thinking about it you might be able to cause the network to blacklist everybody
1856 2013-06-18 23:20:22 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1857 2013-06-18 23:20:58 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: maybe best to take this discussion off of IRC...
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1859 2013-06-18 23:28:07 <MC1984> what header does a wallet file have
1860 2013-06-18 23:28:32 ahbritto has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1861 2013-06-18 23:28:37 ahbritto_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1862 2013-06-18 23:29:03 <MC1984> 2013/06/06-20:25:25.000735 694 Generated table #257645: 1119 keys, 158649 bytes
1863 2013-06-18 23:29:08 <MC1984> this is the db.log right
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1865 2013-06-18 23:31:25 Muis has joined
1866 2013-06-18 23:31:45 <MC1984> welp think i lost a 0.01coin wallet
1867 2013-06-18 23:32:20 <MC1984> apparently windows doesnt delete to recycle bin for an external drive
1868 2013-06-18 23:32:22 <egis> why my bitcoind returns "No information available about transaction" after doing `getrawtransaction`, but blockchain.info shows info about that transaction?
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1871 2013-06-18 23:35:26 <MC1984> photorec is recovering a lot of txt files.....
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