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   4 2013-06-23 09:56:36 <phantomcircuit> fanquake, i wouldn't trust the db after an error
   5 2013-06-23 09:56:50 <[\\\]> I've gotten the corruption message several times
   6 2013-06-23 09:56:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, does leveldb have any checksums?
   7 2013-06-23 09:56:54 <[\\\]> it sucks
   8 2013-06-23 09:57:00 <[\\\]> on a new ssd
   9 2013-06-23 09:57:11 <phantomcircuit> i suspect it's crc32 or equivalent
  10 2013-06-23 09:57:28 <[\\\]> I always cleanly shutdown
  11 2013-06-23 09:57:31 <phantomcircuit> yeah
  12 2013-06-23 09:57:33 <phantomcircuit> it is a crc32
  13 2013-06-23 09:57:50 <phantomcircuit> and only for the log
  14 2013-06-23 09:57:53 <phantomcircuit> not the tables
  15 2013-06-23 09:58:09 <phantomcircuit> fanquake, i would strongly advice that you run -reindex
  16 2013-06-23 09:58:21 <phantomcircuit> [\\\], ditto to you
  17 2013-06-23 09:58:27 <[\\\]> I did one further
  18 2013-06-23 09:58:34 <[\\\]> I purged and bootstrap.dat'd
  19 2013-06-23 10:00:11 <fanquake> phantomcircuit Yeah I will do
  20 2013-06-23 10:00:27 <phantomcircuit> [\\\], it *should* be the same thing
  21 2013-06-23 10:00:32 <phantomcircuit> (and i think actually is)
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  23 2013-06-23 10:00:51 <[\\\]> perhaps
  24 2013-06-23 10:01:05 <[\\\]> but it certainly didn't hurt to do it this way
  25 2013-06-23 10:01:13 <phantomcircuit> true
  26 2013-06-23 10:01:20 <phantomcircuit> and it should take just as long either way
  27 2013-06-23 10:01:24 <[\\\]> aye
  28 2013-06-23 10:01:27 <[\\\]> it starts from 0
  29 2013-06-23 10:01:38 <[\\\]> so whether it uses your existing blocks or the bootstrap blocks
  30 2013-06-23 10:01:42 <[\\\]> same thing
  31 2013-06-23 10:02:08 <[\\\]> I used bootstrap because I knew the status of that
  32 2013-06-23 10:02:16 <[\\\]> since I leave the torrent running
  33 2013-06-23 10:03:04 <Shockzz_> Any advice for starting an alt-coin?
  34 2013-06-23 10:03:09 <[\\\]> yep
  35 2013-06-23 10:03:10 <[\\\]> don't
  36 2013-06-23 10:03:12 <[\\\]> :-x
  37 2013-06-23 10:03:18 <Shockzz_> :
  38 2013-06-23 10:03:20 <Shockzz_> :/ *
  39 2013-06-23 10:03:38 <[\\\]> forking, changing a few variables and then conpiling isn't much of an alt
  40 2013-06-23 10:03:56 <[\\\]> if you're going to make an alt, spend some time and consider what you think is currently lacking and how you'd improve upon it
  41 2013-06-23 10:04:04 <[\\\]> go from there
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  52 2013-06-23 10:30:08 <warren> Shockzz_: alternatively, have a strong marketing team to make up for the lack of any technical merit.
  53 2013-06-23 10:30:18 * warren facepalm.
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  58 2013-06-23 10:43:05 <Mr_Cloud> Hello everyone
  59 2013-06-23 10:43:27 <fanquake> phantomcircuit, would running with -checkblock=0 -checklevel=4 be suffice to check the chainstate? I've completed that just now. Whats the difference between that and a reindex?
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  64 2013-06-23 10:49:54 <Mr_Cloud> What the hell
  65 2013-06-23 10:50:10 <Mr_Cloud> I'm trying to install jsonrpc for Python from json-rpc.org
  66 2013-06-23 10:50:25 <Mr_Cloud> And their folders which allegedly hold the files are empty!
  67 2013-06-23 10:50:46 <Mr_Cloud>  Download the source using bazaar.
  68 2013-06-23 10:50:48 <Mr_Cloud> $ bzr checkout http://bzr.json-rpc.org/trunk
  69 2013-06-23 10:51:03 <Mr_Cloud> ^ Following the link in FF yields an empty folder. What gives?
  70 2013-06-23 10:51:28 <Shockzz_> ;;
  71 2013-06-23 10:51:33 <Shockzz_> ;;help
  72 2013-06-23 10:51:34 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
  73 2013-06-23 10:51:59 <Shockzz_> !facts
  74 2013-06-23 10:51:59 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
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  79 2013-06-23 10:58:55 <Mr_Cloud> sipa, are you there?
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 100 2013-06-23 11:48:09 <michagogo> Erm, guys?
 101 2013-06-23 11:48:25 <michagogo> Wait, ignore me
 102 2013-06-23 11:48:29 <michagogo> (wrong channel)
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 104 2013-06-23 11:50:05 <warren> I accidentally blew away my local git repo.  Could someone please remind me how to add that origin-pull remote again?
 105 2013-06-23 11:50:48 <nanotube> git clone <url> will clone a fresh copy
 106 2013-06-23 11:51:09 <nanotube> if by 'blew away my local git repo' you mean you deleted everything
 107 2013-06-23 11:51:33 <warren> Yes, I blew away everything including the special remote setup that someone told me to do.
 108 2013-06-23 11:51:50 <warren> It allows you to git log and cherry-pick directly from pull requests.
 109 2013-06-23 11:53:11 coeus has joined
 110 2013-06-23 11:54:19 <nanotube> well to add remotes you do 'git remote add <url>' ... not sure what your 'special setup' was though.
 111 2013-06-23 11:55:42 <warren> I think it was Luke-Jr and sipa that told me about "origin-pull", an undocumented feature of github.
 112 2013-06-23 11:56:19 <nanotube> ah heh never used that one
 113 2013-06-23 11:56:29 <warren> It's pretty awesome, especially with bash-completion
 114 2013-06-23 11:56:47 <warren> git log origin-pull/<TAB> shows you available pull req numbers
 115 2013-06-23 11:57:50 <warren> git log origin-pull/<number>/merge to see commits in the pull request.  You can cherry-pick stuff from there without adding more remotes.
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 123 2013-06-23 12:09:07 <nanotube> cool
 124 2013-06-23 12:09:24 <warren> Figured it out.
 125 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren> [remote "origin-pull"]
 126 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren>         url = git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
 127 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren>         fetch = +refs/pull/*:refs/remotes/origin-pull/*
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 130 2013-06-23 12:13:35 <nanotube> nice
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 138 2013-06-23 12:28:59 <rabiescat99> Hello. This is what I get when I try to run the bitcoind binary (FreeBSD): http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=6bEyMfFL
 139 2013-06-23 12:29:05 <rabiescat99> Any idea what the hell is going on? I'm trying to set up Bitcoin (not for mining) on my server so I can make my store deal with Bitcoin. Without using a third party service.
 140 2013-06-23 12:29:14 <rabiescat99> "/root/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf" does not exist, BTW. Also, why /root/? All the other configs are in /usr/local/etc/ or whatever.
 141 2013-06-23 12:31:14 <michagogo> rabiescat99: Is /root/.bitcoin your datadir?
 142 2013-06-23 12:31:29 <michagogo> Also, is this the first time you're running bitcoind? Do you have the files anywhere?
 143 2013-06-23 12:31:32 <rabiescat99> Datadir for what?
 144 2013-06-23 12:31:37 <rabiescat99> First time, yes.
 145 2013-06-23 12:31:42 <michagogo> (blockchain, wallet, etc.)
 146 2013-06-23 12:32:02 <rabiescat99> The only bitcoin.conf in existence on my system is in /usr/ports/net-p2p/bitcoin/work/bitcoin-bitcoin-94933c3/contrib/debian/examples/bitcoin.conf
 147 2013-06-23 12:32:18 <michagogo> Basically, bitcoin needs to store a bunch of files, including wallet, blockchain, configuration files.
 148 2013-06-23 12:32:48 <michagogo> It stores that in its data directory, which by default appears to be /root/bitcoin
 149 2013-06-23 12:32:51 <rabiescat99> Yes, I know. I mean it's the first time I run Bitcoin on FreeBSD. I have run it on Windows (GUI) for a long time.
 150 2013-06-23 12:33:04 <rabiescat99> Well...
 151 2013-06-23 12:33:15 <rabiescat99> I have no idea what controls that dir. It should be the config. Which doesn't exist.
 152 2013-06-23 12:33:21 <michagogo> rabiescat99: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
 153 2013-06-23 12:33:23 <rabiescat99> And which should be in /usr/local/etc like everything else.
 154 2013-06-23 12:34:00 <michagogo> rabiescat99: start bitcoind with -datadir=/usr/local/etc/bitcoin
 155 2013-06-23 12:34:06 <michagogo> or .bitcoin, if you prefer
 156 2013-06-23 12:34:30 <michagogo> (and, take a look at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin as well)
 157 2013-06-23 12:34:47 datagutt has joined
 158 2013-06-23 12:35:35 <rabiescat99> So I'm supposed to copy that example .conf to the correct dir and edit it?
 159 2013-06-23 12:35:49 <rabiescat99> Nearly all of the directives seem to revolve around "RPC". This I found very odd as well.
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 162 2013-06-23 12:37:42 <sipa> fanquake: the startup check is essentially doing a roll back of the database in memory (as much as fits in memory), and then retrying to connect blocks (at level 4), though that's typically only 50-100 blocks or so
 163 2013-06-23 12:38:22 <sipa> rabiescat99: it uses your homedir, if you're running as root, it will store stuff in /root/.bitcoin...
 164 2013-06-23 12:38:34 <michagogo> rabiescat99: If you're running bitcoind, any interaction you have with it is through RPV
 165 2013-06-23 12:38:35 <michagogo> RPC*
 166 2013-06-23 12:39:16 <rabiescat99> Well, I couldn't find any "start script" for it.
 167 2013-06-23 12:39:23 <rabiescat99> Which all software usually have in FreeBSD ports.
 168 2013-06-23 12:39:45 <rabiescat99> For example, Tor would be started with "/usr/local/etc/rc.d/tor start".
 169 2013-06-23 12:39:46 <sipa> well then complain to who is maintaining the freebsd port :)
 170 2013-06-23 12:40:11 <rabiescat99> Sigh. I never imagined that a crappy port would prevent me from using Bitcoin like this.
 171 2013-06-23 12:40:20 <sipa> and it typically doean't run as a system-wide service, but just as your user
 172 2013-06-23 12:40:23 <sipa> prevent?
 173 2013-06-23 12:40:43 <rabiescat99> Well, I have no idea how to start it, where it really should have its config, etc.
 174 2013-06-23 12:40:48 <sipa> you only need a config file with rpcpassword=password rpcuser=username it
 175 2013-06-23 12:41:04 <sipa> in $HOME/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 176 2013-06-23 12:41:14 <sipa> it should tell you that at startup, i think
 177 2013-06-23 12:41:53 <rabiescat99> This breaks everything established on FreeBSD... I have no idea how I'd start it properly except for a one-time test. Hrm.
 178 2013-06-23 12:42:02 Detritus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 179 2013-06-23 12:42:14 <rabiescat99> Seems like it didn't make a user for itself, either.
 180 2013-06-23 12:42:27 <sipa> you typically run it yourself
 181 2013-06-23 12:42:31 <michagogo> rabiescat99: You can start it with the -config flag
 182 2013-06-23 12:42:36 <michagogo> erm
 183 2013-06-23 12:42:41 <michagogo> -datadir flag
 184 2013-06-23 12:42:50 <sipa> it's typically not a system-wide daemon
 185 2013-06-23 12:42:59 <sipa> as it handles someone's money...
 186 2013-06-23 12:43:19 <sipa> it's less conventional indeed
 187 2013-06-23 12:43:23 <michagogo> rabiescat99: If you want it in /usr/local/etc, `./bitcoind  -datadir=/usr/local/etc/.bitcoin`
 188 2013-06-23 12:43:55 Detritus has joined
 189 2013-06-23 12:43:55 <rabiescat99> Well, with no rc.d script or something, it won't start when I start the server, and will exit once I leave the terminal.
 190 2013-06-23 12:44:15 <rabiescat99> Sorry for sounding "lame", but even if I knew how to write such a script, it would feel non-standard.
 191 2013-06-23 12:44:52 <sipa> that imdeed makes sense for something that runs as a system-wide daemon, which is likely what you want when running it on a server
 192 2013-06-23 12:45:03 <sipa> but that's something for the packager
 193 2013-06-23 12:45:08 <rabiescat99> Yeah. :(
 194 2013-06-23 12:45:13 <rabiescat99> Some ports are quite awful.
 195 2013-06-23 12:45:33 <rabiescat99> But they seem to be too happy that anyone did it at all to complain.
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 250 2013-06-23 14:12:38 <TheXev> testing?
 251 2013-06-23 14:13:54 bloke has left ()
 252 2013-06-23 14:13:55 <SomeoneWeird> test failed
 253 2013-06-23 14:14:34 <TheXev> worked for me, but my buddy bloke couldn't get messages to post in here.  He's rejoining.
 254 2013-06-23 14:14:46 <sipa> you need to be registered to talk here now
 255 2013-06-23 14:14:51 <sipa> sorry, anti-spam measure
 256 2013-06-23 14:14:56 <TheXev> oh
 257 2013-06-23 14:14:57 bloke has joined
 258 2013-06-23 14:15:00 <TheXev> (i was thinking he was registered)
 259 2013-06-23 14:15:16 <TheXev> bloke, you need to be a registered user to talk in here.
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 261 2013-06-23 14:17:11 <TheXev> sipa: thx, we'll get him registered then.
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 273 2013-06-23 14:34:16 <Mr_Cloud> sipa, do you have json-rpc for Python installed?
 274 2013-06-23 14:34:32 <sipa> no
 275 2013-06-23 14:34:41 <Mr_Cloud> Tits.
 276 2013-06-23 14:34:55 <Mr_Cloud> Where's jgarzik when you need him
 277 2013-06-23 14:35:51 <Mr_Cloud> I has a "herp derp can't find ServiceProxy" error when trying to use his bitcoinrpc
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 284 2013-06-23 14:47:05 <bitanarchy> can your run bitcoin-qt on tails? I get the following error: sendto: operation not permitted, while loading the blockchain
 285 2013-06-23 14:47:27 Shockzz_ has joined
 286 2013-06-23 14:47:58 <sipa> 'tails' ?
 287 2013-06-23 14:49:09 <bitanarchy> that is a tor live cd
 288 2013-06-23 14:49:12 <bitanarchy> or usb
 289 2013-06-23 14:49:27 <bitanarchy> ofcourse i run the blockchain from the hd
 290 2013-06-23 14:50:58 <Shockzz_> ;;gentime 1048576 * 30
 291 2013-06-23 14:50:58 <gribble> (gentime <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected time to generate a block using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
 292 2013-06-23 14:50:58 agnostic98 has joined
 293 2013-06-23 14:51:34 <Shockzz_> ;;gentime 31457280
 294 2013-06-23 14:51:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 31457280.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 19339258.2724, is 44 minutes and 0 seconds
 295 2013-06-23 14:53:33 <sipa> bitanarchy: perhaps selinux protection?
 296 2013-06-23 14:53:56 <bitanarchy> what is this sendto operation doing?
 297 2013-06-23 14:54:07 <sipa> sending data
 298 2013-06-23 14:54:16 <sipa> to a peer
 299 2013-06-23 14:54:28 <Shockzz_> Is there not a way of running Gribble queries without spamming the IRC for everybody else/
 300 2013-06-23 14:54:28 <sipa> rather essential for a network application :)
 301 2013-06-23 14:54:34 <sipa> Shockzz_: yes, do it in pm
 302 2013-06-23 14:54:56 <bitanarchy> sipa: ah ok, my client kind find any peers
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 304 2013-06-23 14:55:16 <sipa> understandably, if all outgoing messages are blocked!
 305 2013-06-23 14:56:00 <bitanarchy> can´t
 306 2013-06-23 14:56:10 <sipa> ?
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 315 2013-06-23 15:06:08 <bloke> testing
 316 2013-06-23 15:06:18 <TheXev> u can talks. XD
 317 2013-06-23 15:06:20 <bloke> What's the best way to get the value of a transaction, using btcoind?  On testnet, I'm using "getrawtransaction" at the moment, but for some blocks it gives me: error: {"code":-5,"message":"No information available about transaction"}
 318 2013-06-23 15:06:37 <sipa> you cannot know the value of a transaction, only of individual outputs
 319 2013-06-23 15:06:44 <bloke> right
 320 2013-06-23 15:06:53 <sipa> and you need to enable txindex=1 in bitcoin.conf before getrawtransaction will work for arbitrary transactions
 321 2013-06-23 15:07:01 <sipa> by default, no transaction index is maintained
 322 2013-06-23 15:07:06 <bloke> ok i see
 323 2013-06-23 15:07:29 <bloke> My goal is to find the "block reward" for each block. Am I going about it in the right way?
 324 2013-06-23 15:07:32 <sipa> and you'll need to rebuild the database from scratch (start with -reindex once)
 325 2013-06-23 15:07:37 <bloke> right, ok
 326 2013-06-23 15:08:13 <sipa> you mean subsidy, or subsidy+fees, or coinbase outputs?
 327 2013-06-23 15:08:24 <sipa> (they can all 3 be different!)
 328 2013-06-23 15:08:29 <bloke> yikes
 329 2013-06-23 15:08:43 <bloke> btc reward paid to the successful miner of the block
 330 2013-06-23 15:08:51 <sipa> ok, outputs i guess
 331 2013-06-23 15:08:53 <bloke> sorry, I still have some reading to do, apparently
 332 2013-06-23 15:08:54 <sipa> those are easy
 333 2013-06-23 15:09:07 <bitanarchy> sipa: tails does not automagically redirect overything over tor... you still have to torify each app... didn´t know that
 334 2013-06-23 15:09:08 <sipa> look at the outputs of each blocks' coinbase transaction and sum their amounts
 335 2013-06-23 15:09:17 <bloke> ok cheers. I think thats what ive been doing
 336 2013-06-23 15:09:24 ahmed_ has joined
 337 2013-06-23 15:09:25 <bloke> thanks heaps sipa :)
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 345 2013-06-23 15:20:23 <Shockzz_> What do you think the total hashrate of all the miners in the world would be?
 346 2013-06-23 15:20:31 ericmuyser has joined
 347 2013-06-23 15:21:15 <ahmed_2> hey guys
 348 2013-06-23 15:21:34 <ahmed_2> is anyone here good at php
 349 2013-06-23 15:21:35 <bloke> http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate
 350 2013-06-23 15:21:43 <bloke> ahmed, I'm ok at it
 351 2013-06-23 15:22:11 <ahmed_2> ive got a lotto website which ive been running, and im having trouble converting it to a json api
 352 2013-06-23 15:22:29 agnostic98 has joined
 353 2013-06-23 15:22:43 <ahmed_2> this is the main code: http://pastebin.com/MREKnUnF
 354 2013-06-23 15:23:02 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 355 2013-06-23 15:23:21 <Shockzz_> 170160 Gh/s isn't much...
 356 2013-06-23 15:23:30 ralphtheninja has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 357 2013-06-23 15:23:38 <bloke> It's all relative I guess :)
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 360 2013-06-23 15:24:33 <Shockzz_> I was just wondering, because I did some math with gribble and it would take atleast 64,000 Th/s to generate a block in a second.
 361 2013-06-23 15:25:48 <warren> dang ... how do I get an importable privkey from pywallet
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 364 2013-06-23 15:26:40 <ahmed_2> anyone
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 372 2013-06-23 15:33:20 _ingsoc has joined
 373 2013-06-23 15:33:33 <_ingsoc> Is anyone interested in paid dev work?
 374 2013-06-23 15:34:19 <Shockzz_> Depends what kind of work it is.
 375 2013-06-23 15:34:23 sensorii has joined
 376 2013-06-23 15:34:30 outletbtc has joined
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 378 2013-06-23 15:35:08 <_ingsoc> Experience with the Bitcoin codebase is pretty much critical.
 379 2013-06-23 15:36:13 outletbtc has quit (Client Quit)
 380 2013-06-23 15:36:24 <_ingsoc> It pays really well if that helps!
 381 2013-06-23 15:36:39 <Shockzz_> Sorry but no thanks :p
 382 2013-06-23 15:37:12 Shockzz_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 383 2013-06-23 15:37:23 <sipa> ;;nethash
 384 2013-06-23 15:37:23 <gribble> 164459.827104
 385 2013-06-23 15:38:41 <michagogo> [17:40:40] <sipa> (they can all 3 be different!)
 386 2013-06-23 15:38:41 <michagogo> Erm, why would subsidy+fees not equal coinbase outputs? o_O
 387 2013-06-23 15:39:11 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 388 2013-06-23 15:39:14 <michagogo> _ingsoc: It
 389 2013-06-23 15:39:20 <michagogo> _ingsoc: It'd help if you explained more
 390 2013-06-23 15:39:49 <_ingsoc> I'm kind of dipping my toes in the water to see if it's hostile. Since I pretty much just posted an ad in your chat. :/
 391 2013-06-23 15:40:00 <_ingsoc> I've got a whitepaper if you're interested.
 392 2013-06-23 15:40:01 Subo1978_ has joined
 393 2013-06-23 15:41:45 <michagogo> _ingsoc: What exactly are you looking to do?
 394 2013-06-23 15:42:30 <_ingsoc> Do you mind if I PM you so I don't pollute chat?
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 413 2013-06-23 16:02:30 <grau> michagogo: coinbase output can be less than reward+fees. Would be dumb, but allowed
 414 2013-06-23 16:02:39 ahmed_2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 415 2013-06-23 16:02:42 <michagogo> o_O
 416 2013-06-23 16:03:37 <sipa> and it has happened that not everything was claimed
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 423 2013-06-23 16:10:47 <jgarzik> random,
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 425 2013-06-23 16:11:15 <jgarzik> sipa, warren, I occasionally wonder whether importing a key with $CurTime as key birthday is the best
 426 2013-06-23 16:11:25 <jgarzik> creating a key, sure, that's fine
 427 2013-06-23 16:11:29 <jgarzik> importing is another matter
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 431 2013-06-23 16:12:29 <jgarzik> sipa, I think you wanted 'importprivkey' to take privkey@timestamp format?
 432 2013-06-23 16:12:50 <sipa> jgarzik: importing? if no birthtime is specified whwn importing, it should be considered infinitely old
 433 2013-06-23 16:12:55 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah
 434 2013-06-23 16:13:09 shesek has joined
 435 2013-06-23 16:13:14 <warren> jgarzik: I don't see how $CurTime makes sense if the user doesn't know the birthday
 436 2013-06-23 16:13:15 <sipa> or bwtter, have no timestamp at all
 437 2013-06-23 16:13:29 <jgarzik> sipa, nod, noting that I think HEAD is buggy in that way
 438 2013-06-23 16:13:41 <sipa> jgarzik: i doubt that
 439 2013-06-23 16:13:56 <sipa> jgarzik: i removed all GetTime() calls related to keys
 440 2013-06-23 16:14:03 <sipa> except the one in GenerateNewKey
 441 2013-06-23 16:14:15 <jgarzik> ok
 442 2013-06-23 16:14:27 icedp has joined
 443 2013-06-23 16:14:42 <sipa> and my walletdump patch (not yet merged) has to code automatically infer safe lower bounds on key ages
 444 2013-06-23 16:14:48 shesek has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 445 2013-06-23 16:14:52 <sipa> based on transactions crediting them
 446 2013-06-23 16:15:12 shesek has joined
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 448 2013-06-23 16:17:05 PRab has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 449 2013-06-23 16:17:54 <iddo> maybe coinbase<reward+fees is the only way to provably destroy bitcoins?
 450 2013-06-23 16:18:36 <iddo> i saw http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/7443 about sending bitcoins to script that always returns false, though maybe you can find a 2nd preimage to the script hash?
 451 2013-06-23 16:19:00 <sipa> iddo: that only works for p2sh outputs
 452 2013-06-23 16:19:39 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 453 2013-06-23 16:19:42 <sipa> but if preimages become viavle, we'll have other prblems i guess
 454 2013-06-23 16:19:46 <iddo> yes if someone wishes to prove that he destoryed his coins, he can send to p2sh output that always returns false
 455 2013-06-23 16:20:10 <sipa> why p2sh? just send to an OP_FALSE script?
 456 2013-06-23 16:20:14 <iddo> i just wonder if coinbase<reward+fees is the only totally provable way
 457 2013-06-23 16:20:46 tyn has joined
 458 2013-06-23 16:21:09 <iddo> ok but in either case the transaction output is script hash, so there can be 2nd preimage?
 459 2013-06-23 16:23:09 <jgarzik> OK, _this_ is nutters: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/06/23/bitcoin-foundation-receives-cease-and-desist-order-from-california/
 460 2013-06-23 16:23:28 <jgarzik> IIUC, California is imagining that BF "runs bitcoin"
 461 2013-06-23 16:23:57 <sipa> iddo: no, the output contains the script itself
 462 2013-06-23 16:24:23 <sipa> p2sh = pay to script hash = output co tains script hash i stead of script itself
 463 2013-06-23 16:24:40 <sipa> jgarzik: that's.... ridiculous
 464 2013-06-23 16:24:57 <iddo> ahh, cool
 465 2013-06-23 16:25:08 <jgarzik> sipa, pretty much
 466 2013-06-23 16:26:24 <shesek> why not use 0x00 as the pubkey?
 467 2013-06-23 16:26:38 <sipa> hah, that's possible too
 468 2013-06-23 16:26:45 <shesek> which is 1111111111111111111114oLvT2
 469 2013-06-23 16:26:52 <sipa> no no
 470 2013-06-23 16:27:01 <sipa> that's a send to pubkeyhash
 471 2013-06-23 16:27:10 <sipa> with hash=o
 472 2013-06-23 16:27:19 <sipa> that's still vulnerable to a preimage
 473 2013-06-23 16:27:36 <sipa> but you could just send to an _invalid_ pubkey directly
 474 2013-06-23 16:27:56 <sipa> but OP_FALSE is still smaller
 475 2013-06-23 16:28:38 <michagogo> [18:52:26] <sipa> why p2sh? just send to an OP_FALSE script?
 476 2013-06-23 16:28:47 <michagogo> I thought OP_RETURN is the "fail" code?
 477 2013-06-23 16:28:54 seeingidog__ has joined
 478 2013-06-23 16:30:25 <michagogo> From that forbes article: "The issued letter was signed by State of California Senior Counsel Paul T. Crayton"
 479 2013-06-23 16:30:32 * michagogo read that as Crayon
 480 2013-06-23 16:31:09 <shesek> sipa, are you sure? that's what I'm getting from bitcoinjs with `new Bitcoin.Address(0 for [1..20]).toString()`
 481 2013-06-23 16:31:24 <shesek> oh oops
 482 2013-06-23 16:31:27 <shesek> I misread what you said
 483 2013-06-23 16:31:49 <shesek> (thought you said it was a pay to non-hash pubkey)
 484 2013-06-23 16:32:35 <shesek> how is this vulnerable to preimage? one would have to find a pubkey that hashes to all zeros, than find a private key for that
 485 2013-06-23 16:32:41 <shesek> which is practically impossible
 486 2013-06-23 16:33:05 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 487 2013-06-23 16:34:52 <sipa> shesek: nobody claimed a preumage is practically possible
 488 2013-06-23 16:35:02 <sipa> but it's still vulnerable to that
 489 2013-06-23 16:35:10 <shesek> its not just an preimage attack, you'd still have to find a matching private key
 490 2013-06-23 16:35:18 <MC1984> foundation is a double edged sword in terms of having an edifice with which other edifices can interact
 491 2013-06-23 16:35:22 <shesek> if someone can find a private key for arbitrary pubkeys, we have worse issues than that
 492 2013-06-23 16:35:25 <MC1984> california lol
 493 2013-06-23 16:35:34 <sipa> shesek: sure, it'd be horrible
 494 2013-06-23 16:35:54 <sipa> shesek: but sending to an invalid pubkey or OP_FALSE doesn't even suffer from that
 495 2013-06-23 16:36:12 <sipa> there's no practical difference, only a theoretical one
 496 2013-06-23 16:38:56 <michagogo> sipa: What's the difference between sending to OP_FALSE vs OP_RETURN?
 497 2013-06-23 16:39:16 <sipa> it's a different operation, but it has the same result
 498 2013-06-23 16:39:31 <michagogo> Different how?
 499 2013-06-23 16:39:45 <sipa> op_false pushes false on the stack
 500 2013-06-23 16:39:57 <sipa> op_return causes the script to fail immediately
 501 2013-06-23 16:40:08 FredEE has joined
 502 2013-06-23 16:40:41 <Vinnie_win> phew...we have to fix HEAD because the pull tester keeps failing
 503 2013-06-23 16:40:43 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: likely a result of Aaron Greenspan's saber rattling. He's accusing california of discriminatory enforcement and cite bitcoin in his nuisance lawsuit.
 504 2013-06-23 16:41:11 freewil has joined
 505 2013-06-23 16:41:23 <shesek> sipa, if one could easily find hash collisions, he can still find a collision with the p2sh address to a different script that lets him redeem it
 506 2013-06-23 16:42:07 <shesek> so OP_FALSE/OP_RETURN (with p2sh) is still vulnerable to an pre-image attack, without having to find a matching private key
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 510 2013-06-23 16:43:41 <gmaxwell> who said anything about p2sh?  The proposed standard unspendable output is a very specific script.
 511 2013-06-23 16:43:41 Odyessus has joined
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 513 2013-06-23 16:45:39 <sipa> shesek: OP_RETURN provably unspendable outputs wouldn't be P2SH
 514 2013-06-23 16:45:52 <sipa> though not because of danger of preimage
 515 2013-06-23 16:46:44 <warren> hmm, I might as well ask you folks.  I was planning on dropping our free KB per block from 27KB to 10KB (given our blocks are 4x more often).  Can you foresee anything bad happening, given 10KB is also the free tx size limit?
 516 2013-06-23 16:46:57 <gmaxwell> (because its the shortest such script, and because it's trivial to get the matching right)
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 519 2013-06-23 16:49:32 daybyter has joined
 520 2013-06-23 16:50:21 <michagogo> warren: 4x?
 521 2013-06-23 16:50:46 PRab has joined
 522 2013-06-23 16:51:26 <warren> michagogo: I'm fixing Litecoin's problem of "no releases for a year".  Rebased onto modern bitcoin, putting it through every test I can find, adjusting things that seem like a good idea.
 523 2013-06-23 16:52:03 <michagogo> Hmm? What does "4x" have to do with that?
 524 2013-06-23 16:52:48 <warren> michagogo: oh, 2.5 minute blocks.  So 27KB high priority tx per block would be 108KB per 10 minutes
 525 2013-06-23 16:52:54 <warren> michagogo: which seems excessive
 526 2013-06-23 16:54:13 <michagogo> Ah
 527 2013-06-23 16:54:14 lupine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 528 2013-06-23 16:54:34 <michagogo> BTW, how is that supposed to help?
 529 2013-06-23 16:54:54 <warren> "that" meaning reducing the free tx per block?
 530 2013-06-23 16:55:03 <michagogo> No, blocks every 150 secs
 531 2013-06-23 16:55:18 <michagogo> Considering that the reliability of confirmations has nothing to do with number, but rather time
 532 2013-06-23 16:55:25 agnostic98 has joined
 533 2013-06-23 16:55:46 <warren> michagogo: I didn't design this.   I'm not even claiming any of this is good.  I'm just fixing it and learning stuff.
 534 2013-06-23 16:55:47 <michagogo> For the same level of reliability that you get in 6 blocks, you now need to wait 24 blocks
 535 2013-06-23 16:57:27 <Mr_Cloud> Hello jgarzik
 536 2013-06-23 16:58:39 <Mr_Cloud> I'm trying to get your Python bitcoinrpc code working, jgarzik
 537 2013-06-23 16:58:43 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 538 2013-06-23 16:59:07 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, "or any network of people who engage as a business in facilitating the transfer of money domestically or internationally outside of the conventional financial institutions system"
 539 2013-06-23 16:59:16 <sipa> jgarzik: sounds like that could apply to the foundation
 540 2013-06-23 16:59:22 <sipa> if interpreted very broadly
 541 2013-06-23 16:59:33 <Mr_Cloud> I got Python 3.3.2 and I downloaded the jsonrpc code and setup.py install'd it
 542 2013-06-23 16:59:42 <Mr_Cloud> As well as the bitcoinrpc
 543 2013-06-23 17:00:18 <Mr_Cloud> I made a query.py with the example code on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29
 544 2013-06-23 17:00:56 <Mr_Cloud> Only I get the error "cannot import name ServiceProxy"
 545 2013-06-23 17:01:11 <Mr_Cloud> Would you happen to know what might be causing this?
 546 2013-06-23 17:02:11 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
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 549 2013-06-23 17:05:16 <gmaxwell> sipa: sounds like it's intending to refer to hawala, would be sort of insane to apply it to 'hawala marketing association' or what have you. In any case, it still wouldnt— because bitcoin isn't money. Perhaps a bitcoin exchange foundation would be another question. :)
 550 2013-06-23 17:08:05 ForceMajeure_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 551 2013-06-23 17:09:41 <Mr_Cloud> PS- dead link on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5314.0 - 404 from yyz.us for the autoproxy link
 552 2013-06-23 17:10:33 bloke has left ()
 553 2013-06-23 17:11:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: that's why it'd be a very broad interpretation... even if bitcoin isn't money, you could argue that the purpose of the bitcoin foundation is facilitating transfer of money
 554 2013-06-23 17:11:16 <sipa> (by introducing a more convenient exchange medium in between...)
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 558 2013-06-23 17:12:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: Fair enough, though... I'm pretty sure you could argue thats the purpose of just about everything if you're willing to go that far.
 559 2013-06-23 17:12:56 paracyst has joined
 560 2013-06-23 17:13:38 <freewil> the government can try to put pressure on the bitcoin foundation, but assuming they have resources to defend themselves, i think the state would have a hard time proving they are engaging in money tranmission
 561 2013-06-23 17:13:49 kadoban has joined
 562 2013-06-23 17:13:51 <freewil> what do they do other than engage in freedom of speech?
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 564 2013-06-23 17:18:37 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 565 2013-06-23 17:19:49 <freewil> you could say it's a trade organization that publishes information, software source code
 566 2013-06-23 17:21:18 <sipa> as long as you don't start calling it The Trade Federation
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 571 2013-06-23 17:25:13 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, RE Aaron, oh yeah, had forgotten about that :(
 572 2013-06-23 17:25:29 <jgarzik> sipa, indeed, the statutes are obviously over-broad.
 573 2013-06-23 17:25:32 nateless has joined
 574 2013-06-23 17:25:41 <jgarzik> I would think this is EFF territory
 575 2013-06-23 17:26:57 <jgarzik> Mr_Cloud, sorry, way too busy to provide free support of any sort
 576 2013-06-23 17:27:02 <jgarzik> Mr_Cloud, ask in public, not in private
 577 2013-06-23 17:27:12 <Mr_Cloud> Ok sure
 578 2013-06-23 17:27:32 <Mr_Cloud> I'm having an issue communicating with the client.
 579 2013-06-23 17:27:39 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 580 2013-06-23 17:28:17 <Mr_Cloud> Currently running in -server mode and this is the error I get when running code from the example at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5314.0 - error is pastebin'd: http://pastebin.com/rqkF9DMg
 581 2013-06-23 17:28:30 <Mr_Cloud> If someone could halp, I would greatly appreciate it
 582 2013-06-23 17:30:45 <Mr_Cloud> And like I said jgarzik, if you could have a look at the paste whenever you can, I'd appreciate it quite a lot
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 592 2013-06-23 17:41:29 <Ferroh> When did bitcoin-qt start showing 8 decimals?
 593 2013-06-23 17:41:31 <Ferroh> around 0.4?
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 596 2013-06-23 17:43:12 <gmaxwell> 0.3.20 I think. Why ask here, you can search the commit history yourself. :)
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 598 2013-06-23 17:44:19 <Ferroh> I did try that first without much success, its a big history :)
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 606 2013-06-23 17:56:10 <jgarzik> heh.  reddit "[California] must have mistake B.F. for that Ripple company"
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 613 2013-06-23 18:01:31 <saivann> I'd like to request review for this pull request : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/209
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 636 2013-06-23 18:16:23 <skinnkavaj> "Generated coins must wait 120 blocks to mature before they can be spent."
 637 2013-06-23 18:16:28 <skinnkavaj> Has this been changed?
 638 2013-06-23 18:16:46 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: what are you quoting?
 639 2013-06-23 18:16:58 <gmaxwell> (without context I can't give you a complete answer)
 640 2013-06-23 18:17:01 <skinnkavaj> the original bitcoin.org website made by satoshi
 641 2013-06-23 18:17:02 <skinnkavaj> http://web.archive.org/web/20090131115053/http://bitcoin.org/
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 643 2013-06-23 18:17:54 <skinnkavaj> highlight gmaxwell
 644 2013-06-23 18:17:56 <gmaxwell> Thats still the reference client behavior. The protocol rule is 100 and always has been 100.
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 648 2013-06-23 18:18:52 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: So if i win the next block by mining i have to wait 100 x 10 minutes?
 649 2013-06-23 18:18:59 <shesek> why is that? ("Generated coins must wait 120 blocks to mature before they can be spent.")
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 651 2013-06-23 18:19:41 <gmaxwell> shesek: because if the chain reorgs the generated coins will be gone forever, irreplacably.
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 654 2013-06-23 18:20:09 <shesek> oh, I see. yeah, that makes sense.
 655 2013-06-23 18:20:13 <sipa> which would lead to huge trees of transactions being invalidated
 656 2013-06-23 18:20:22 <sipa> if the outputs would already be spent
 657 2013-06-23 18:20:40 <Thepok> isnt that the same with existing coins??
 658 2013-06-23 18:20:43 <gmaxwell> shesek: so it means that even if I was completely honest if I paid you out of newly generated coins events beyond my control could undo that payment and leave me unable to make good on it... .. and every subisiquent transaction rippling down.
 659 2013-06-23 18:20:58 <sipa> Thepok: normal coins don't get reorganized away
 660 2013-06-23 18:21:02 <gmaxwell> Thepok: no, normally when a transaction falls out of the chain its just reinserted.
 661 2013-06-23 18:21:09 <sipa> Thepok: they can simply move to another part in the chain
 662 2013-06-23 18:21:16 <Thepok> k
 663 2013-06-23 18:21:18 <gmaxwell> Thepok: so invalidation only happens if there is dis[Dhonesty.
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 665 2013-06-23 18:23:04 <shesek> but a 100 blocks sounds like a bit too much, no?
 666 2013-06-23 18:23:17 <sipa> it very likely is overly cautious
 667 2013-06-23 18:23:27 <sipa> and the 20 extra certainly is
 668 2013-06-23 18:23:32 <sipa> but does it hurt?
 669 2013-06-23 18:23:59 <shesek> it hurts the miners that wants to spend it
 670 2013-06-23 18:24:10 <shesek> but I guess they can wait a little longer
 671 2013-06-23 18:24:34 <shesek> its less than a day, not a big deal
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 673 2013-06-23 18:26:08 <gmaxwell> I don't think that 100 is overly cautious. It's certnatly hardly costly to have it be a fairly long time.
 674 2013-06-23 18:26:20 <gmaxwell> certantly*
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 679 2013-06-23 18:32:31 <gmaxwell> Might be fun to benchmark using this fork: http://hyperdex.org/performance/leveldb/
 680 2013-06-23 18:33:14 <jrmithdobbs> someone seriously might to call gavin or someone and tell them to at least confirm/deny the damned forbes story on bitcoindfoundation.org somewhere
 681 2013-06-23 18:33:18 <gmaxwell> (though we don't have that many entries)
 682 2013-06-23 18:33:31 <jrmithdobbs> err bitcoinfoundation.org
 683 2013-06-23 18:33:50 <_ingsoc> He said something about it earlier.
 684 2013-06-23 18:33:56 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: see the scanned letter, it looks real enough. And the author of that post would certantly know.
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 686 2013-06-23 18:34:49 <_ingsoc> Something about California thinking BF runs Bitcoin.
 687 2013-06-23 18:38:30 <shesek> more like California thinking BF is running a money transmitter service
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 692 2013-06-23 18:46:00 <_ingsoc> What the heck does that even mean?
 693 2013-06-23 18:46:18 <_ingsoc> How do you prove that you're not?
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 695 2013-06-23 18:48:32 <shesek> there's some interesting information over at HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5927892 (the top-most comment)
 696 2013-06-23 18:49:07 <shesek> the law to worry about here isn't even the one cited. It is ... 18 U.S.C. § 1960 ... And that law says that you don't have to be a money transmitter to get a letter such as the one received by the Bitcoin Foundation
 697 2013-06-23 18:49:45 <_ingsoc> What about people that develop cryptocurrencies?
 698 2013-06-23 18:49:52 <_ingsoc> Could they get in trouble?
 699 2013-06-23 18:52:09 <shesek> IANAL, and I probably don't know more than you do
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 702 2013-06-23 18:52:46 <_ingsoc> Hmmm.
 703 2013-06-23 18:52:53 <_ingsoc> That top comment is pretty scary.
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 718 2013-06-23 19:05:53 <owowo> What?! You don't have to be a "money transmitter" to get a letter telling you to "cease and desist" money transmitting?!
 719 2013-06-23 19:06:38 <owowo> Must be law...
 720 2013-06-23 19:06:50 <Diablo-D3> owowo: well
 721 2013-06-23 19:06:54 <Diablo-D3> the letter is worthless either way
 722 2013-06-23 19:07:27 <Diablo-D3> though I'd preemptively sue to get a declarative judgement against the government
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 725 2013-06-23 19:07:56 <owowo> then can I write a letter to California to just... cease and desist ;o)
 726 2013-06-23 19:08:28 <Diablo-D3> exactly
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 728 2013-06-23 19:08:45 <Diablo-D3> if a judge rules that you are, indeed, not a money transmitter and have never transmitted money
 729 2013-06-23 19:08:50 altamic has left ()
 730 2013-06-23 19:08:58 <Diablo-D3> then any further c&ds are harassment
 731 2013-06-23 19:09:05 <Diablo-D3> which are then legally actionable
 732 2013-06-23 19:10:50 <owowo> is Schwarzenegger still the gouvernator?
 733 2013-06-23 19:10:54 <Diablo-D3> no
 734 2013-06-23 19:11:02 <Diablo-D3> hasnt been for what, 4 years?
 735 2013-06-23 19:13:20 <jgarzik> shesek, over on HN, note that ThinkComp's comment == Aaron Greenspan.  Google around on him.
 736 2013-06-23 19:14:01 savetheinternet has joined
 737 2013-06-23 19:14:09 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: jesus, does everyone read HN now?
 738 2013-06-23 19:14:31 <Arnavion> Does it count if I read it ironically?
 739 2013-06-23 19:14:34 <jgarzik> I don't.  But it infects other sites.
 740 2013-06-23 19:14:38 <jgarzik> It is unavoidable.
 741 2013-06-23 19:14:43 <jgarzik> like 4chan
 742 2013-06-23 19:14:45 <Diablo-D3> I mena, I joined HN when it wasnt popular
 743 2013-06-23 19:14:48 <owowo> what's HN?
 744 2013-06-23 19:14:50 <Diablo-D3> now like, everybody fucking posts
 745 2013-06-23 19:14:54 <Diablo-D3> and I have a gigantic karma
 746 2013-06-23 19:15:00 <Diablo-D3> owowo: hacker news, pg's site
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 748 2013-06-23 19:17:10 <_ingsoc> jgarzik: Do you foresee Bitcoin developers ever getting in trouble for developing Bitcoin? :/
 749 2013-06-23 19:17:54 <jgarzik> My powers as a prophet are sadly limited.  It's one reason I don't like to gamble.
 750 2013-06-23 19:18:26 <Diablo-D3> _ingsoc: well
 751 2013-06-23 19:18:31 <Diablo-D3> seeing as foss is free speech
 752 2013-06-23 19:18:37 <Diablo-D3> I can only see this as becoming hilarious
 753 2013-06-23 19:19:15 <_ingsoc> Yeah, but does the law look at it like that? :(
 754 2013-06-23 19:19:24 <Diablo-D3> it basically has to
 755 2013-06-23 19:19:27 <Diablo-D3> go read the constitution
 756 2013-06-23 19:19:31 <k9quaint> how did California government being epically stupid suddenly become news?
 757 2013-06-23 19:19:37 <_ingsoc> UK, Australia, Europe?
 758 2013-06-23 19:19:41 <k9quaint> don't people have the internet?
 759 2013-06-23 19:19:56 <Diablo-D3> _ingsoc: no one cares about foreign nations
 760 2013-06-23 19:20:00 <_ingsoc> xD
 761 2013-06-23 19:20:07 <Diablo-D3> do what we did over 200 years ago, replace your government with a better one
 762 2013-06-23 19:20:18 <k9quaint> all the bitcoin foundation has to say is "we will hold our tech conference in New York" and the DFI will evaporate in a puff of logic
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 764 2013-06-23 19:20:19 <_ingsoc> You're kidding, right?
 765 2013-06-23 19:20:52 nateless has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
 766 2013-06-23 19:21:18 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: hah.
 767 2013-06-23 19:22:44 <_ingsoc> Can't do anything nowadays without breaking the law or getting persecuted.
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 770 2013-06-23 19:23:43 <Diablo-D3> the average person commits 3 felonies a day
 771 2013-06-23 19:23:48 <k9quaint> _ingsoc: move to somalia, they don't have that problem
 772 2013-06-23 19:24:16 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: not true
 773 2013-06-23 19:24:23 <Diablo-D3> if you're caught being white in somalia
 774 2013-06-23 19:24:25 <Diablo-D3> they'll kill you
 775 2013-06-23 19:24:30 <matjeh> somalia: land of the free
 776 2013-06-23 19:24:41 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: no, they will try to kill you
 777 2013-06-23 19:24:52 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: but you won't be breaking the law :P
 778 2013-06-23 19:25:18 <Diablo-D3> true, I could just show up with a tank.
 779 2013-06-23 19:25:41 <k9quaint> or a star destroyer
 780 2013-06-23 19:26:13 <Diablo-D3> s/star/aegis/
 781 2013-06-23 19:27:10 <jgarzik> The average person sees 3 incorrect, pulled-out-of-your-ass statistics per day.
 782 2013-06-23 19:27:13 <k9quaint> evaporating people from orbit with turbo lasers > floating on the ocean :)
 783 2013-06-23 19:27:27 <michagogo> jgarzik: Also, 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot
 784 2013-06-23 19:27:28 <k9quaint> jgarzik: don't get all meta on me, i havent had my coffee yet
 785 2013-06-23 19:27:41 <Diablo-D3> evaporating people from 12 miles out at sea with cruise missiles > floating in space
 786 2013-06-23 19:28:10 <k9quaint> I can't believe you would pick a boat over a space ship with FTL
 787 2013-06-23 19:28:22 <saivann> ..
 788 2013-06-23 19:28:45 <Diablo-D3> with a boat, I can still go to shore and fuck ebony princesses (after I destroyed their villages of mud huts)
 789 2013-06-23 19:29:04 <Diablo-D3> with a star destroyer, its pretty much just stormtroopers, and there are so few female stormtroopers =/
 790 2013-06-23 19:29:06 <k9quaint> saivann: this is clearly related to bitcoin development, I just can't see how
 791 2013-06-23 19:29:17 <saivann> :)
 792 2013-06-23 19:29:33 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: well, we could always buy our own country
 793 2013-06-23 19:30:10 <owowo> I think greece has some island on sale
 794 2013-06-23 19:30:49 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: I would rather just conquer the Caymens or BVI
 795 2013-06-23 19:31:02 <k9quaint> make BTC the national currency
 796 2013-06-23 19:31:11 <Diablo-D3> bvi?
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 798 2013-06-23 19:31:43 <k9quaint> british virgin islands
 799 2013-06-23 19:31:54 <k9quaint> its where the brits send all their virgins apparently
 800 2013-06-23 19:32:00 <sipa> s/send/get/
 801 2013-06-23 19:32:36 <k9quaint> there are virgins in britain? since when?
 802 2013-06-23 19:33:20 <saivann> Anyone to review and comment this replacement text about pseudo-anonymity on bitcoin.org?
 803 2013-06-23 19:33:21 <saivann> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/209
 804 2013-06-23 19:33:31 <saivann> I think it needs to be changed since a while
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 813 2013-06-23 19:41:56 <sipa> jgarzik, gmaxwell, wumpus: can I have some ACKs on 2783 and 2784 (shouldn't be controversial, i think...)
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 815 2013-06-23 19:44:23 <sipa> 2750 also seems mergable
 816 2013-06-23 19:44:35 <sipa> eh, i mean 2743
 817 2013-06-23 19:45:14 <sipa> some comments on 2702 would be nice
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 827 2013-06-23 19:48:46 <michagogo> sipa: Is the fact that 2784 failed to build not a problem?
 828 2013-06-23 19:49:13 <sipa> michagogo: everything will fail to build
 829 2013-06-23 19:49:23 <sipa> until pulltester is updated to use -regtest instead of patches
 830 2013-06-23 19:49:27 <michagogo> Oh, is the pull tester borked
 831 2013-06-23 19:49:30 <michagogo> Ah
 832 2013-06-23 19:50:59 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt could you update pulltester, now that CChainParams is merged?
 833 2013-06-23 19:51:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 834 2013-06-23 19:51:16 Insti has joined
 835 2013-06-23 19:51:31 <michagogo> ;;help later
 836 2013-06-23 19:51:31 <gribble> Error: There is no command "later".
 837 2013-06-23 19:51:34 <michagogo> o_O
 838 2013-06-23 19:51:57 <sipa> ;;help later tell
 839 2013-06-23 19:51:58 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
 840 2013-06-23 19:53:34 <michagogo> ;;later tell * test
 841 2013-06-23 19:53:34 <gribble> Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
 842 2013-06-23 19:53:43 <michagogo> ;;later tell *i* test
 843 2013-06-23 19:53:43 <gribble> Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
 844 2013-06-23 19:53:57 <michagogo> I guess it can't actually contain wildcard characters
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 846 2013-06-23 19:54:15 <sipa> ;;later tell micha* maybe
 847 2013-06-23 19:54:16 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 859 2013-06-23 20:22:10 <sipa> jgarzik: what about inverting the logic: if you have not received any
 860 2013-06-23 20:22:20 <sipa> thing for a minute, send a ping
 861 2013-06-23 20:23:48 <jgarzik> sipa, yes, that seems like far more common and normal keepalive logic
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 864 2013-06-23 20:31:18 <michagogo> sipa: Wait, what does it do now?
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 866 2013-06-23 20:32:04 <michagogo> keepalive pings should only be necessary in the absence of other traffic
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 929 2013-06-23 21:29:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: saw that...Ill fix it tomorrow
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 931 2013-06-23 21:29:50 <BlueMatt> or...maybe tuesday
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 941 2013-06-23 21:47:53 <BlueMatt> is the foundation even registered in california?
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 949 2013-06-23 22:05:16 <hpprinter100> bitcoin ATM http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/
 950 2013-06-23 22:05:46 <hpprinter100> BOOST BITCOIN FUND I LLC	ADAM DRAPER?
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 952 2013-06-23 22:07:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't think that matters
 953 2013-06-23 22:07:30 <BlueMatt> yea, a state cant impose rules on something not in its jurisdiction
 954 2013-06-23 22:07:46 <BlueMatt> to be fair, what it is trying to impose cant happen anyway, but...
 955 2013-06-23 22:09:17 <sipa> doing business within a state falls under its jurisdoction, whether you're registered there or not
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 957 2013-06-23 22:09:52 <sipa> but IANAL
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 959 2013-06-23 22:10:31 <BlueMatt> well, I suppose the issue is they mistakenly think the foundation does any business at all
 960 2013-06-23 22:11:32 <jchp> sure sounds like a mistake or misunderstanding
 961 2013-06-23 22:12:11 <jchp> it also sounds like aaron greenspan whined to the state
 962 2013-06-23 22:12:19 <jchp> (but that's just speculation)
 963 2013-06-23 22:12:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure
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 995 2013-06-23 22:58:07 <sipa> jgarzik: modified it to a send-after-not-receiving
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 997 2013-06-23 22:58:24 <sipa> jgarzik: while testing, discovered that we were now dumping peers.dat every 10 (!!!) seconds
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1002 2013-06-23 23:05:57 <Luke-Jr> O.o
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1004 2013-06-23 23:06:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, wat
1005 2013-06-23 23:07:22 <sipa> it used to be every 100s, but it seems a 0 was lost in the threads refactor
1006 2013-06-23 23:07:36 <gmaxwell> hm. When did that start?  I'd seen some weird peers.dat behavior prior to the last release. I'm not sure why I didn't follow up on it.
1007 2013-06-23 23:07:44 <gmaxwell> yea, that makes sense, darn.
1008 2013-06-23 23:07:51 <sipa> so since 0.8.2
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1010 2013-06-23 23:08:13 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sipa money transmitter regulations define doing business in the state very broadly, that being said im pretty sure it's just a blanket C&D that they sent to anybody they could think of
1011 2013-06-23 23:08:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's really obvious too, as it logs it.
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1013 2013-06-23 23:08:34 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: has anyone else reported recieving one yet?
1014 2013-06-23 23:08:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i doubt anybody else would
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1016 2013-06-23 23:09:01 <phantomcircuit> it's generally a bad idea to poke the regulators in the eye unless it's super obvious they're wrong
1017 2013-06-23 23:09:56 <gmaxwell> I mean, if they managed to hit something random that accepts bitcoin donations.
1018 2013-06-23 23:10:12 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, im not aware of anybody else reporting it
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1020 2013-06-23 23:10:19 <phantomcircuit> but it reads as a very generic C&D
1021 2013-06-23 23:10:28 <davout> whatever way you look at it this stuff is good stuff, either they fail, or massive streisand effect
1022 2013-06-23 23:10:57 <davout> and in addition to having an imaginary japanese person as god we can have an american as martyr
1023 2013-06-23 23:11:53 <phantomcircuit> davout, dollars to donuts a simple response of "we dont do that" will suffice
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1025 2013-06-23 23:12:24 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I wonder if it's related to all the DP promotion at the conference
1026 2013-06-23 23:12:28 <davout> i think it already has been sent given the date on the letter
1027 2013-06-23 23:12:32 <Luke-Jr> the Foundation really screwed up approving that
1028 2013-06-23 23:12:34 <davout> (i mean the answer)
1029 2013-06-23 23:13:01 <davout> Luke-Jr: DP?
1030 2013-06-23 23:13:19 <sipa> davout: dead puppies, Luke-Jr's code term for SatoshiDice
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1032 2013-06-23 23:13:30 <davout> haha thanks
1033 2013-06-23 23:13:41 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, that isn't entirely unlikely
1034 2013-06-23 23:13:57 <davout> reminds me of that earthworm jim 2 stage where you had to bounce puppies around
1035 2013-06-23 23:14:11 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what? how did I get the blame for that now⁉
1036 2013-06-23 23:14:13 <gmaxwell> I think I actually originated the term.
1037 2013-06-23 23:14:39 <Luke-Jr> I went I think like a week before I finally gave in and asked "okay, what's DP?" >.>
1038 2013-06-23 23:14:39 <davout> i think satoshidice is quite irrelevant in this particular matter
1039 2013-06-23 23:14:55 <davout> otherwise the C&D woudl have been about gambling wouldn't it?
1040 2013-06-23 23:15:00 <gmaxwell> It felt weird saying SD over and over again, esp when we were mostly talking about generic behavior patterns which they exemplified but weren't unique to them.
1041 2013-06-23 23:15:10 <davout> the threat to the state is much much deeper than simple online gambling
1042 2013-06-23 23:15:15 <phantomcircuit> davout, in the us there are rules against facilitating payments for the purposes of gambling, those rules are significant and heavily enforced
1043 2013-06-23 23:15:25 <sipa> Luke-Jr: really? apologies then - i wonder who came up with it
1044 2013-06-23 23:15:36 <gmaxwell> davout: hard to say— a lot of the money transmitter prosecution in the US in the past decade has really seemed to be online gambling related.
1045 2013-06-23 23:15:53 <davout> phantomcircuit: i know, that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying the focus is probably not on online gambling, did the C&D even mention "gambling" at all ?
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1047 2013-06-23 23:15:56 <gmaxwell> Though its hard to tell if online gambling is the real motiviation or its just that the gambling places tended to use the fringe money processors.
1048 2013-06-23 23:16:32 <gmaxwell> But as I said earlier, if you want to grasp at straws go for Aaron's nussance lawsuits accusing the CA government of unequally enforcing the money transmitter laws.
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1059 2013-06-23 23:37:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, nearly all of it has been
1060 2013-06-23 23:37:58 <phantomcircuit> but that's largely been outright abject money laundering
1061 2013-06-23 23:38:11 <gmaxwell> ::nods::
1062 2013-06-23 23:38:31 <phantomcircuit> davout, ^
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1065 2013-06-23 23:43:26 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, also fun fact ev who owns dp works for bitinstant
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1067 2013-06-23 23:50:26 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: used to
1068 2013-06-23 23:50:34 <Luke-Jr> last I heard, Erik no longer works for BitInstant
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1070 2013-06-23 23:53:34 <jgarzik> sipa, ouch, certainly an undesirable level of dumping ;p
1071 2013-06-23 23:54:22 <sipa> jgarzik: that actually results in around 1 Mbit/s of disk I/O alone...
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1073 2013-06-23 23:54:46 <sipa> zZzZ
1074 2013-06-23 23:57:36 <dugo> printouts of www.law.cornell.edu complete w/ ads .. seriously!?
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