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4 2013-06-23 09:56:36 <phantomcircuit> fanquake, i wouldn't trust the db after an error
5 2013-06-23 09:56:50 <[\\\]> I've gotten the corruption message several times
6 2013-06-23 09:56:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, does leveldb have any checksums?
7 2013-06-23 09:56:54 <[\\\]> it sucks
8 2013-06-23 09:57:00 <[\\\]> on a new ssd
9 2013-06-23 09:57:11 <phantomcircuit> i suspect it's crc32 or equivalent
10 2013-06-23 09:57:28 <[\\\]> I always cleanly shutdown
11 2013-06-23 09:57:31 <phantomcircuit> yeah
12 2013-06-23 09:57:33 <phantomcircuit> it is a crc32
13 2013-06-23 09:57:50 <phantomcircuit> and only for the log
14 2013-06-23 09:57:53 <phantomcircuit> not the tables
15 2013-06-23 09:58:09 <phantomcircuit> fanquake, i would strongly advice that you run -reindex
16 2013-06-23 09:58:21 <phantomcircuit> [\\\], ditto to you
17 2013-06-23 09:58:27 <[\\\]> I did one further
18 2013-06-23 09:58:34 <[\\\]> I purged and bootstrap.dat'd
19 2013-06-23 10:00:11 <fanquake> phantomcircuit Yeah I will do
20 2013-06-23 10:00:27 <phantomcircuit> [\\\], it *should* be the same thing
21 2013-06-23 10:00:32 <phantomcircuit> (and i think actually is)
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23 2013-06-23 10:00:51 <[\\\]> perhaps
24 2013-06-23 10:01:05 <[\\\]> but it certainly didn't hurt to do it this way
25 2013-06-23 10:01:13 <phantomcircuit> true
26 2013-06-23 10:01:20 <phantomcircuit> and it should take just as long either way
27 2013-06-23 10:01:24 <[\\\]> aye
28 2013-06-23 10:01:27 <[\\\]> it starts from 0
29 2013-06-23 10:01:38 <[\\\]> so whether it uses your existing blocks or the bootstrap blocks
30 2013-06-23 10:01:42 <[\\\]> same thing
31 2013-06-23 10:02:08 <[\\\]> I used bootstrap because I knew the status of that
32 2013-06-23 10:02:16 <[\\\]> since I leave the torrent running
33 2013-06-23 10:03:04 <Shockzz_> Any advice for starting an alt-coin?
34 2013-06-23 10:03:09 <[\\\]> yep
35 2013-06-23 10:03:10 <[\\\]> don't
36 2013-06-23 10:03:12 <[\\\]> :-x
37 2013-06-23 10:03:18 <Shockzz_> :
38 2013-06-23 10:03:20 <Shockzz_> :/ *
39 2013-06-23 10:03:38 <[\\\]> forking, changing a few variables and then conpiling isn't much of an alt
40 2013-06-23 10:03:56 <[\\\]> if you're going to make an alt, spend some time and consider what you think is currently lacking and how you'd improve upon it
41 2013-06-23 10:04:04 <[\\\]> go from there
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52 2013-06-23 10:30:08 <warren> Shockzz_: alternatively, have a strong marketing team to make up for the lack of any technical merit.
53 2013-06-23 10:30:18 * warren facepalm.
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58 2013-06-23 10:43:05 <Mr_Cloud> Hello everyone
59 2013-06-23 10:43:27 <fanquake> phantomcircuit, would running with -checkblock=0 -checklevel=4 be suffice to check the chainstate? I've completed that just now. Whats the difference between that and a reindex?
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64 2013-06-23 10:49:54 <Mr_Cloud> What the hell
65 2013-06-23 10:50:10 <Mr_Cloud> I'm trying to install jsonrpc for Python from json-rpc.org
66 2013-06-23 10:50:25 <Mr_Cloud> And their folders which allegedly hold the files are empty!
67 2013-06-23 10:50:46 <Mr_Cloud> Download the source using bazaar.
68 2013-06-23 10:50:48 <Mr_Cloud> $ bzr checkout http://bzr.json-rpc.org/trunk
69 2013-06-23 10:51:03 <Mr_Cloud> ^ Following the link in FF yields an empty folder. What gives?
70 2013-06-23 10:51:28 <Shockzz_> ;;
71 2013-06-23 10:51:33 <Shockzz_> ;;help
72 2013-06-23 10:51:34 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
73 2013-06-23 10:51:59 <Shockzz_> !facts
74 2013-06-23 10:51:59 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
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79 2013-06-23 10:58:55 <Mr_Cloud> sipa, are you there?
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100 2013-06-23 11:48:09 <michagogo> Erm, guys?
101 2013-06-23 11:48:25 <michagogo> Wait, ignore me
102 2013-06-23 11:48:29 <michagogo> (wrong channel)
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104 2013-06-23 11:50:05 <warren> I accidentally blew away my local git repo. Could someone please remind me how to add that origin-pull remote again?
105 2013-06-23 11:50:48 <nanotube> git clone <url> will clone a fresh copy
106 2013-06-23 11:51:09 <nanotube> if by 'blew away my local git repo' you mean you deleted everything
107 2013-06-23 11:51:33 <warren> Yes, I blew away everything including the special remote setup that someone told me to do.
108 2013-06-23 11:51:50 <warren> It allows you to git log and cherry-pick directly from pull requests.
109 2013-06-23 11:53:11 coeus has joined
110 2013-06-23 11:54:19 <nanotube> well to add remotes you do 'git remote add <url>' ... not sure what your 'special setup' was though.
111 2013-06-23 11:55:42 <warren> I think it was Luke-Jr and sipa that told me about "origin-pull", an undocumented feature of github.
112 2013-06-23 11:56:19 <nanotube> ah heh never used that one
113 2013-06-23 11:56:29 <warren> It's pretty awesome, especially with bash-completion
114 2013-06-23 11:56:47 <warren> git log origin-pull/<TAB> shows you available pull req numbers
115 2013-06-23 11:57:50 <warren> git log origin-pull/<number>/merge to see commits in the pull request. You can cherry-pick stuff from there without adding more remotes.
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123 2013-06-23 12:09:07 <nanotube> cool
124 2013-06-23 12:09:24 <warren> Figured it out.
125 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren> [remote "origin-pull"]
126 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren> url = git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
127 2013-06-23 12:09:26 <warren> fetch = +refs/pull/*:refs/remotes/origin-pull/*
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130 2013-06-23 12:13:35 <nanotube> nice
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138 2013-06-23 12:28:59 <rabiescat99> Hello. This is what I get when I try to run the bitcoind binary (FreeBSD): http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=6bEyMfFL
139 2013-06-23 12:29:05 <rabiescat99> Any idea what the hell is going on? I'm trying to set up Bitcoin (not for mining) on my server so I can make my store deal with Bitcoin. Without using a third party service.
140 2013-06-23 12:29:14 <rabiescat99> "/root/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf" does not exist, BTW. Also, why /root/? All the other configs are in /usr/local/etc/ or whatever.
141 2013-06-23 12:31:14 <michagogo> rabiescat99: Is /root/.bitcoin your datadir?
142 2013-06-23 12:31:29 <michagogo> Also, is this the first time you're running bitcoind? Do you have the files anywhere?
143 2013-06-23 12:31:32 <rabiescat99> Datadir for what?
144 2013-06-23 12:31:37 <rabiescat99> First time, yes.
145 2013-06-23 12:31:42 <michagogo> (blockchain, wallet, etc.)
146 2013-06-23 12:32:02 <rabiescat99> The only bitcoin.conf in existence on my system is in /usr/ports/net-p2p/bitcoin/work/bitcoin-bitcoin-94933c3/contrib/debian/examples/bitcoin.conf
147 2013-06-23 12:32:18 <michagogo> Basically, bitcoin needs to store a bunch of files, including wallet, blockchain, configuration files.
148 2013-06-23 12:32:48 <michagogo> It stores that in its data directory, which by default appears to be /root/bitcoin
149 2013-06-23 12:32:51 <rabiescat99> Yes, I know. I mean it's the first time I run Bitcoin on FreeBSD. I have run it on Windows (GUI) for a long time.
150 2013-06-23 12:33:04 <rabiescat99> Well...
151 2013-06-23 12:33:15 <rabiescat99> I have no idea what controls that dir. It should be the config. Which doesn't exist.
152 2013-06-23 12:33:21 <michagogo> rabiescat99: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
153 2013-06-23 12:33:23 <rabiescat99> And which should be in /usr/local/etc like everything else.
154 2013-06-23 12:34:00 <michagogo> rabiescat99: start bitcoind with -datadir=/usr/local/etc/bitcoin
155 2013-06-23 12:34:06 <michagogo> or .bitcoin, if you prefer
156 2013-06-23 12:34:30 <michagogo> (and, take a look at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin as well)
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158 2013-06-23 12:35:35 <rabiescat99> So I'm supposed to copy that example .conf to the correct dir and edit it?
159 2013-06-23 12:35:49 <rabiescat99> Nearly all of the directives seem to revolve around "RPC". This I found very odd as well.
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162 2013-06-23 12:37:42 <sipa> fanquake: the startup check is essentially doing a roll back of the database in memory (as much as fits in memory), and then retrying to connect blocks (at level 4), though that's typically only 50-100 blocks or so
163 2013-06-23 12:38:22 <sipa> rabiescat99: it uses your homedir, if you're running as root, it will store stuff in /root/.bitcoin...
164 2013-06-23 12:38:34 <michagogo> rabiescat99: If you're running bitcoind, any interaction you have with it is through RPV
165 2013-06-23 12:38:35 <michagogo> RPC*
166 2013-06-23 12:39:16 <rabiescat99> Well, I couldn't find any "start script" for it.
167 2013-06-23 12:39:23 <rabiescat99> Which all software usually have in FreeBSD ports.
168 2013-06-23 12:39:45 <rabiescat99> For example, Tor would be started with "/usr/local/etc/rc.d/tor start".
169 2013-06-23 12:39:46 <sipa> well then complain to who is maintaining the freebsd port :)
170 2013-06-23 12:40:11 <rabiescat99> Sigh. I never imagined that a crappy port would prevent me from using Bitcoin like this.
171 2013-06-23 12:40:20 <sipa> and it typically doean't run as a system-wide service, but just as your user
172 2013-06-23 12:40:23 <sipa> prevent?
173 2013-06-23 12:40:43 <rabiescat99> Well, I have no idea how to start it, where it really should have its config, etc.
174 2013-06-23 12:40:48 <sipa> you only need a config file with rpcpassword=password rpcuser=username it
175 2013-06-23 12:41:04 <sipa> in $HOME/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
176 2013-06-23 12:41:14 <sipa> it should tell you that at startup, i think
177 2013-06-23 12:41:53 <rabiescat99> This breaks everything established on FreeBSD... I have no idea how I'd start it properly except for a one-time test. Hrm.
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179 2013-06-23 12:42:14 <rabiescat99> Seems like it didn't make a user for itself, either.
180 2013-06-23 12:42:27 <sipa> you typically run it yourself
181 2013-06-23 12:42:31 <michagogo> rabiescat99: You can start it with the -config flag
182 2013-06-23 12:42:36 <michagogo> erm
183 2013-06-23 12:42:41 <michagogo> -datadir flag
184 2013-06-23 12:42:50 <sipa> it's typically not a system-wide daemon
185 2013-06-23 12:42:59 <sipa> as it handles someone's money...
186 2013-06-23 12:43:19 <sipa> it's less conventional indeed
187 2013-06-23 12:43:23 <michagogo> rabiescat99: If you want it in /usr/local/etc, `./bitcoind -datadir=/usr/local/etc/.bitcoin`
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189 2013-06-23 12:43:55 <rabiescat99> Well, with no rc.d script or something, it won't start when I start the server, and will exit once I leave the terminal.
190 2013-06-23 12:44:15 <rabiescat99> Sorry for sounding "lame", but even if I knew how to write such a script, it would feel non-standard.
191 2013-06-23 12:44:52 <sipa> that imdeed makes sense for something that runs as a system-wide daemon, which is likely what you want when running it on a server
192 2013-06-23 12:45:03 <sipa> but that's something for the packager
193 2013-06-23 12:45:08 <rabiescat99> Yeah. :(
194 2013-06-23 12:45:13 <rabiescat99> Some ports are quite awful.
195 2013-06-23 12:45:33 <rabiescat99> But they seem to be too happy that anyone did it at all to complain.
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249 2013-06-23 14:12:12 TheXev has joined
250 2013-06-23 14:12:38 <TheXev> testing?
251 2013-06-23 14:13:54 bloke has left ()
252 2013-06-23 14:13:55 <SomeoneWeird> test failed
253 2013-06-23 14:14:34 <TheXev> worked for me, but my buddy bloke couldn't get messages to post in here. He's rejoining.
254 2013-06-23 14:14:46 <sipa> you need to be registered to talk here now
255 2013-06-23 14:14:51 <sipa> sorry, anti-spam measure
256 2013-06-23 14:14:56 <TheXev> oh
257 2013-06-23 14:14:57 bloke has joined
258 2013-06-23 14:15:00 <TheXev> (i was thinking he was registered)
259 2013-06-23 14:15:16 <TheXev> bloke, you need to be a registered user to talk in here.
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261 2013-06-23 14:17:11 <TheXev> sipa: thx, we'll get him registered then.
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273 2013-06-23 14:34:16 <Mr_Cloud> sipa, do you have json-rpc for Python installed?
274 2013-06-23 14:34:32 <sipa> no
275 2013-06-23 14:34:41 <Mr_Cloud> Tits.
276 2013-06-23 14:34:55 <Mr_Cloud> Where's jgarzik when you need him
277 2013-06-23 14:35:51 <Mr_Cloud> I has a "herp derp can't find ServiceProxy" error when trying to use his bitcoinrpc
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284 2013-06-23 14:47:05 <bitanarchy> can your run bitcoin-qt on tails? I get the following error: sendto: operation not permitted, while loading the blockchain
285 2013-06-23 14:47:27 Shockzz_ has joined
286 2013-06-23 14:47:58 <sipa> 'tails' ?
287 2013-06-23 14:49:09 <bitanarchy> that is a tor live cd
288 2013-06-23 14:49:12 <bitanarchy> or usb
289 2013-06-23 14:49:27 <bitanarchy> ofcourse i run the blockchain from the hd
290 2013-06-23 14:50:58 <Shockzz_> ;;gentime 1048576 * 30
291 2013-06-23 14:50:58 <gribble> (gentime <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected time to generate a block using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
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293 2013-06-23 14:51:34 <Shockzz_> ;;gentime 31457280
294 2013-06-23 14:51:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 31457280.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 19339258.2724, is 44 minutes and 0 seconds
295 2013-06-23 14:53:33 <sipa> bitanarchy: perhaps selinux protection?
296 2013-06-23 14:53:56 <bitanarchy> what is this sendto operation doing?
297 2013-06-23 14:54:07 <sipa> sending data
298 2013-06-23 14:54:16 <sipa> to a peer
299 2013-06-23 14:54:28 <Shockzz_> Is there not a way of running Gribble queries without spamming the IRC for everybody else/
300 2013-06-23 14:54:28 <sipa> rather essential for a network application :)
301 2013-06-23 14:54:34 <sipa> Shockzz_: yes, do it in pm
302 2013-06-23 14:54:56 <bitanarchy> sipa: ah ok, my client kind find any peers
303 2013-06-23 14:55:16 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
304 2013-06-23 14:55:16 <sipa> understandably, if all outgoing messages are blocked!
305 2013-06-23 14:56:00 <bitanarchy> can´t
306 2013-06-23 14:56:10 <sipa> ?
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308 2013-06-23 14:59:31 tholenst has quit (Quit: Page closed)
309 2013-06-23 15:02:00 altamic has joined
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311 2013-06-23 15:02:49 idstam has joined
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313 2013-06-23 15:03:43 JStoker has joined
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315 2013-06-23 15:06:08 <bloke> testing
316 2013-06-23 15:06:18 <TheXev> u can talks. XD
317 2013-06-23 15:06:20 <bloke> What's the best way to get the value of a transaction, using btcoind? On testnet, I'm using "getrawtransaction" at the moment, but for some blocks it gives me: error: {"code":-5,"message":"No information available about transaction"}
318 2013-06-23 15:06:37 <sipa> you cannot know the value of a transaction, only of individual outputs
319 2013-06-23 15:06:44 <bloke> right
320 2013-06-23 15:06:53 <sipa> and you need to enable txindex=1 in bitcoin.conf before getrawtransaction will work for arbitrary transactions
321 2013-06-23 15:07:01 <sipa> by default, no transaction index is maintained
322 2013-06-23 15:07:06 <bloke> ok i see
323 2013-06-23 15:07:29 <bloke> My goal is to find the "block reward" for each block. Am I going about it in the right way?
324 2013-06-23 15:07:32 <sipa> and you'll need to rebuild the database from scratch (start with -reindex once)
325 2013-06-23 15:07:37 <bloke> right, ok
326 2013-06-23 15:08:13 <sipa> you mean subsidy, or subsidy+fees, or coinbase outputs?
327 2013-06-23 15:08:24 <sipa> (they can all 3 be different!)
328 2013-06-23 15:08:29 <bloke> yikes
329 2013-06-23 15:08:43 <bloke> btc reward paid to the successful miner of the block
330 2013-06-23 15:08:51 <sipa> ok, outputs i guess
331 2013-06-23 15:08:53 <bloke> sorry, I still have some reading to do, apparently
332 2013-06-23 15:08:54 <sipa> those are easy
333 2013-06-23 15:09:07 <bitanarchy> sipa: tails does not automagically redirect overything over tor... you still have to torify each app... didn´t know that
334 2013-06-23 15:09:08 <sipa> look at the outputs of each blocks' coinbase transaction and sum their amounts
335 2013-06-23 15:09:17 <bloke> ok cheers. I think thats what ive been doing
336 2013-06-23 15:09:24 ahmed_ has joined
337 2013-06-23 15:09:25 <bloke> thanks heaps sipa :)
338 2013-06-23 15:10:59 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
339 2013-06-23 15:11:14 RazielZ has joined
340 2013-06-23 15:12:15 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
341 2013-06-23 15:14:00 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
342 2013-06-23 15:14:03 RazielZ has quit (Client Quit)
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344 2013-06-23 15:18:59 ahmed_2 has joined
345 2013-06-23 15:20:23 <Shockzz_> What do you think the total hashrate of all the miners in the world would be?
346 2013-06-23 15:20:31 ericmuyser has joined
347 2013-06-23 15:21:15 <ahmed_2> hey guys
348 2013-06-23 15:21:34 <ahmed_2> is anyone here good at php
349 2013-06-23 15:21:35 <bloke> http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate
350 2013-06-23 15:21:43 <bloke> ahmed, I'm ok at it
351 2013-06-23 15:22:11 <ahmed_2> ive got a lotto website which ive been running, and im having trouble converting it to a json api
352 2013-06-23 15:22:29 agnostic98 has joined
353 2013-06-23 15:22:43 <ahmed_2> this is the main code: http://pastebin.com/MREKnUnF
354 2013-06-23 15:23:02 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
355 2013-06-23 15:23:21 <Shockzz_> 170160 Gh/s isn't much...
356 2013-06-23 15:23:30 ralphtheninja has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
357 2013-06-23 15:23:38 <bloke> It's all relative I guess :)
358 2013-06-23 15:24:04 Detritus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
359 2013-06-23 15:24:13 Detritus has joined
360 2013-06-23 15:24:33 <Shockzz_> I was just wondering, because I did some math with gribble and it would take atleast 64,000 Th/s to generate a block in a second.
361 2013-06-23 15:25:48 <warren> dang ... how do I get an importable privkey from pywallet
362 2013-06-23 15:26:01 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
363 2013-06-23 15:26:35 _W_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
364 2013-06-23 15:26:40 <ahmed_2> anyone
365 2013-06-23 15:27:13 sensorii has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
366 2013-06-23 15:28:09 Subo1978 has joined
367 2013-06-23 15:28:13 Subo1978_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
368 2013-06-23 15:28:14 hsmiths2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
369 2013-06-23 15:30:40 hsmiths has joined
370 2013-06-23 15:32:09 GordonG3kko has joined
371 2013-06-23 15:32:33 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
372 2013-06-23 15:33:20 _ingsoc has joined
373 2013-06-23 15:33:33 <_ingsoc> Is anyone interested in paid dev work?
374 2013-06-23 15:34:19 <Shockzz_> Depends what kind of work it is.
375 2013-06-23 15:34:23 sensorii has joined
376 2013-06-23 15:34:30 outletbtc has joined
377 2013-06-23 15:34:47 seeingidog__ has joined
378 2013-06-23 15:35:08 <_ingsoc> Experience with the Bitcoin codebase is pretty much critical.
379 2013-06-23 15:36:13 outletbtc has quit (Client Quit)
380 2013-06-23 15:36:24 <_ingsoc> It pays really well if that helps!
381 2013-06-23 15:36:39 <Shockzz_> Sorry but no thanks :p
382 2013-06-23 15:37:12 Shockzz_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
383 2013-06-23 15:37:23 <sipa> ;;nethash
384 2013-06-23 15:37:23 <gribble> 164459.827104
385 2013-06-23 15:38:41 <michagogo> [17:40:40] <sipa> (they can all 3 be different!)
386 2013-06-23 15:38:41 <michagogo> Erm, why would subsidy+fees not equal coinbase outputs? o_O
387 2013-06-23 15:39:11 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
388 2013-06-23 15:39:14 <michagogo> _ingsoc: It
389 2013-06-23 15:39:20 <michagogo> _ingsoc: It'd help if you explained more
390 2013-06-23 15:39:49 <_ingsoc> I'm kind of dipping my toes in the water to see if it's hostile. Since I pretty much just posted an ad in your chat. :/
391 2013-06-23 15:40:00 <_ingsoc> I've got a whitepaper if you're interested.
392 2013-06-23 15:40:01 Subo1978_ has joined
393 2013-06-23 15:41:45 <michagogo> _ingsoc: What exactly are you looking to do?
394 2013-06-23 15:42:30 <_ingsoc> Do you mind if I PM you so I don't pollute chat?
395 2013-06-23 15:42:33 santoscork has joined
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403 2013-06-23 15:50:28 Subo1978_ is now known as Subo1978
404 2013-06-23 15:52:22 hsmiths has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
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413 2013-06-23 16:02:30 <grau> michagogo: coinbase output can be less than reward+fees. Would be dumb, but allowed
414 2013-06-23 16:02:39 ahmed_2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
415 2013-06-23 16:02:42 <michagogo> o_O
416 2013-06-23 16:03:37 <sipa> and it has happened that not everything was claimed
417 2013-06-23 16:09:31 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
418 2013-06-23 16:10:02 jgarzik has joined
419 2013-06-23 16:10:02 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
420 2013-06-23 16:10:02 jgarzik has joined
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423 2013-06-23 16:10:47 <jgarzik> random,
424 2013-06-23 16:10:50 wladimir_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
425 2013-06-23 16:11:15 <jgarzik> sipa, warren, I occasionally wonder whether importing a key with $CurTime as key birthday is the best
426 2013-06-23 16:11:25 <jgarzik> creating a key, sure, that's fine
427 2013-06-23 16:11:29 <jgarzik> importing is another matter
428 2013-06-23 16:11:30 enikanorov_ has joined
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431 2013-06-23 16:12:29 <jgarzik> sipa, I think you wanted 'importprivkey' to take privkey@timestamp format?
432 2013-06-23 16:12:50 <sipa> jgarzik: importing? if no birthtime is specified whwn importing, it should be considered infinitely old
433 2013-06-23 16:12:55 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah
434 2013-06-23 16:13:09 shesek has joined
435 2013-06-23 16:13:14 <warren> jgarzik: I don't see how $CurTime makes sense if the user doesn't know the birthday
436 2013-06-23 16:13:15 <sipa> or bwtter, have no timestamp at all
437 2013-06-23 16:13:29 <jgarzik> sipa, nod, noting that I think HEAD is buggy in that way
438 2013-06-23 16:13:41 <sipa> jgarzik: i doubt that
439 2013-06-23 16:13:56 <sipa> jgarzik: i removed all GetTime() calls related to keys
440 2013-06-23 16:14:03 <sipa> except the one in GenerateNewKey
441 2013-06-23 16:14:15 <jgarzik> ok
442 2013-06-23 16:14:27 icedp has joined
443 2013-06-23 16:14:42 <sipa> and my walletdump patch (not yet merged) has to code automatically infer safe lower bounds on key ages
444 2013-06-23 16:14:48 shesek has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
445 2013-06-23 16:14:52 <sipa> based on transactions crediting them
446 2013-06-23 16:15:12 shesek has joined
447 2013-06-23 16:15:54 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
448 2013-06-23 16:17:05 PRab has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
449 2013-06-23 16:17:54 <iddo> maybe coinbase<reward+fees is the only way to provably destroy bitcoins?
450 2013-06-23 16:18:36 <iddo> i saw http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/7443 about sending bitcoins to script that always returns false, though maybe you can find a 2nd preimage to the script hash?
451 2013-06-23 16:19:00 <sipa> iddo: that only works for p2sh outputs
452 2013-06-23 16:19:39 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: Leaving)
453 2013-06-23 16:19:42 <sipa> but if preimages become viavle, we'll have other prblems i guess
454 2013-06-23 16:19:46 <iddo> yes if someone wishes to prove that he destoryed his coins, he can send to p2sh output that always returns false
455 2013-06-23 16:20:10 <sipa> why p2sh? just send to an OP_FALSE script?
456 2013-06-23 16:20:14 <iddo> i just wonder if coinbase<reward+fees is the only totally provable way
457 2013-06-23 16:20:46 tyn has joined
458 2013-06-23 16:21:09 <iddo> ok but in either case the transaction output is script hash, so there can be 2nd preimage?
459 2013-06-23 16:23:09 <jgarzik> OK, _this_ is nutters: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/06/23/bitcoin-foundation-receives-cease-and-desist-order-from-california/
460 2013-06-23 16:23:28 <jgarzik> IIUC, California is imagining that BF "runs bitcoin"
461 2013-06-23 16:23:57 <sipa> iddo: no, the output contains the script itself
462 2013-06-23 16:24:23 <sipa> p2sh = pay to script hash = output co tains script hash i stead of script itself
463 2013-06-23 16:24:40 <sipa> jgarzik: that's.... ridiculous
464 2013-06-23 16:24:57 <iddo> ahh, cool
465 2013-06-23 16:25:08 <jgarzik> sipa, pretty much
466 2013-06-23 16:26:24 <shesek> why not use 0x00 as the pubkey?
467 2013-06-23 16:26:38 <sipa> hah, that's possible too
468 2013-06-23 16:26:45 <shesek> which is 1111111111111111111114oLvT2
469 2013-06-23 16:26:52 <sipa> no no
470 2013-06-23 16:27:01 <sipa> that's a send to pubkeyhash
471 2013-06-23 16:27:10 <sipa> with hash=o
472 2013-06-23 16:27:19 <sipa> that's still vulnerable to a preimage
473 2013-06-23 16:27:36 <sipa> but you could just send to an _invalid_ pubkey directly
474 2013-06-23 16:27:56 <sipa> but OP_FALSE is still smaller
475 2013-06-23 16:28:38 <michagogo> [18:52:26] <sipa> why p2sh? just send to an OP_FALSE script?
476 2013-06-23 16:28:47 <michagogo> I thought OP_RETURN is the "fail" code?
477 2013-06-23 16:28:54 seeingidog__ has joined
478 2013-06-23 16:30:25 <michagogo> From that forbes article: "The issued letter was signed by State of California Senior Counsel Paul T. Crayton"
479 2013-06-23 16:30:32 * michagogo read that as Crayon
480 2013-06-23 16:31:09 <shesek> sipa, are you sure? that's what I'm getting from bitcoinjs with `new Bitcoin.Address(0 for [1..20]).toString()`
481 2013-06-23 16:31:24 <shesek> oh oops
482 2013-06-23 16:31:27 <shesek> I misread what you said
483 2013-06-23 16:31:49 <shesek> (thought you said it was a pay to non-hash pubkey)
484 2013-06-23 16:32:35 <shesek> how is this vulnerable to preimage? one would have to find a pubkey that hashes to all zeros, than find a private key for that
485 2013-06-23 16:32:41 <shesek> which is practically impossible
486 2013-06-23 16:33:05 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
487 2013-06-23 16:34:52 <sipa> shesek: nobody claimed a preumage is practically possible
488 2013-06-23 16:35:02 <sipa> but it's still vulnerable to that
489 2013-06-23 16:35:10 <shesek> its not just an preimage attack, you'd still have to find a matching private key
490 2013-06-23 16:35:18 <MC1984> foundation is a double edged sword in terms of having an edifice with which other edifices can interact
491 2013-06-23 16:35:22 <shesek> if someone can find a private key for arbitrary pubkeys, we have worse issues than that
492 2013-06-23 16:35:25 <MC1984> california lol
493 2013-06-23 16:35:34 <sipa> shesek: sure, it'd be horrible
494 2013-06-23 16:35:54 <sipa> shesek: but sending to an invalid pubkey or OP_FALSE doesn't even suffer from that
495 2013-06-23 16:36:12 <sipa> there's no practical difference, only a theoretical one
496 2013-06-23 16:38:56 <michagogo> sipa: What's the difference between sending to OP_FALSE vs OP_RETURN?
497 2013-06-23 16:39:16 <sipa> it's a different operation, but it has the same result
498 2013-06-23 16:39:31 <michagogo> Different how?
499 2013-06-23 16:39:45 <sipa> op_false pushes false on the stack
500 2013-06-23 16:39:57 <sipa> op_return causes the script to fail immediately
501 2013-06-23 16:40:08 FredEE has joined
502 2013-06-23 16:40:41 <Vinnie_win> phew...we have to fix HEAD because the pull tester keeps failing
503 2013-06-23 16:40:43 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: likely a result of Aaron Greenspan's saber rattling. He's accusing california of discriminatory enforcement and cite bitcoin in his nuisance lawsuit.
504 2013-06-23 16:41:11 freewil has joined
505 2013-06-23 16:41:23 <shesek> sipa, if one could easily find hash collisions, he can still find a collision with the p2sh address to a different script that lets him redeem it
506 2013-06-23 16:42:07 <shesek> so OP_FALSE/OP_RETURN (with p2sh) is still vulnerable to an pre-image attack, without having to find a matching private key
507 2013-06-23 16:42:36 FabianB_ has joined
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510 2013-06-23 16:43:41 <gmaxwell> who said anything about p2sh? The proposed standard unspendable output is a very specific script.
511 2013-06-23 16:43:41 Odyessus has joined
512 2013-06-23 16:43:51 FabianB__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
513 2013-06-23 16:45:39 <sipa> shesek: OP_RETURN provably unspendable outputs wouldn't be P2SH
514 2013-06-23 16:45:52 <sipa> though not because of danger of preimage
515 2013-06-23 16:46:44 <warren> hmm, I might as well ask you folks. I was planning on dropping our free KB per block from 27KB to 10KB (given our blocks are 4x more often). Can you foresee anything bad happening, given 10KB is also the free tx size limit?
516 2013-06-23 16:46:57 <gmaxwell> (because its the shortest such script, and because it's trivial to get the matching right)
517 2013-06-23 16:47:48 tholenst has joined
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519 2013-06-23 16:49:32 daybyter has joined
520 2013-06-23 16:50:21 <michagogo> warren: 4x?
521 2013-06-23 16:50:46 PRab has joined
522 2013-06-23 16:51:26 <warren> michagogo: I'm fixing Litecoin's problem of "no releases for a year". Rebased onto modern bitcoin, putting it through every test I can find, adjusting things that seem like a good idea.
523 2013-06-23 16:52:03 <michagogo> Hmm? What does "4x" have to do with that?
524 2013-06-23 16:52:48 <warren> michagogo: oh, 2.5 minute blocks. So 27KB high priority tx per block would be 108KB per 10 minutes
525 2013-06-23 16:52:54 <warren> michagogo: which seems excessive
526 2013-06-23 16:54:13 <michagogo> Ah
527 2013-06-23 16:54:14 lupine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
528 2013-06-23 16:54:34 <michagogo> BTW, how is that supposed to help?
529 2013-06-23 16:54:54 <warren> "that" meaning reducing the free tx per block?
530 2013-06-23 16:55:03 <michagogo> No, blocks every 150 secs
531 2013-06-23 16:55:18 <michagogo> Considering that the reliability of confirmations has nothing to do with number, but rather time
532 2013-06-23 16:55:25 agnostic98 has joined
533 2013-06-23 16:55:46 <warren> michagogo: I didn't design this. I'm not even claiming any of this is good. I'm just fixing it and learning stuff.
534 2013-06-23 16:55:47 <michagogo> For the same level of reliability that you get in 6 blocks, you now need to wait 24 blocks
535 2013-06-23 16:57:27 <Mr_Cloud> Hello jgarzik
536 2013-06-23 16:58:39 <Mr_Cloud> I'm trying to get your Python bitcoinrpc code working, jgarzik
537 2013-06-23 16:58:43 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
538 2013-06-23 16:59:07 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, "or any network of people who engage as a business in facilitating the transfer of money domestically or internationally outside of the conventional financial institutions system"
539 2013-06-23 16:59:16 <sipa> jgarzik: sounds like that could apply to the foundation
540 2013-06-23 16:59:22 <sipa> if interpreted very broadly
541 2013-06-23 16:59:33 <Mr_Cloud> I got Python 3.3.2 and I downloaded the jsonrpc code and setup.py install'd it
542 2013-06-23 16:59:42 <Mr_Cloud> As well as the bitcoinrpc
543 2013-06-23 17:00:18 <Mr_Cloud> I made a query.py with the example code on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29
544 2013-06-23 17:00:56 <Mr_Cloud> Only I get the error "cannot import name ServiceProxy"
545 2013-06-23 17:01:11 <Mr_Cloud> Would you happen to know what might be causing this?
546 2013-06-23 17:02:11 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
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549 2013-06-23 17:05:16 <gmaxwell> sipa: sounds like it's intending to refer to hawala, would be sort of insane to apply it to 'hawala marketing association' or what have you. In any case, it still wouldntâ because bitcoin isn't money. Perhaps a bitcoin exchange foundation would be another question. :)
550 2013-06-23 17:08:05 ForceMajeure_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
551 2013-06-23 17:09:41 <Mr_Cloud> PS- dead link on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5314.0 - 404 from yyz.us for the autoproxy link
552 2013-06-23 17:10:33 bloke has left ()
553 2013-06-23 17:11:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: that's why it'd be a very broad interpretation... even if bitcoin isn't money, you could argue that the purpose of the bitcoin foundation is facilitating transfer of money
554 2013-06-23 17:11:16 <sipa> (by introducing a more convenient exchange medium in between...)
555 2013-06-23 17:11:51 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
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558 2013-06-23 17:12:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: Fair enough, though... I'm pretty sure you could argue thats the purpose of just about everything if you're willing to go that far.
559 2013-06-23 17:12:56 paracyst has joined
560 2013-06-23 17:13:38 <freewil> the government can try to put pressure on the bitcoin foundation, but assuming they have resources to defend themselves, i think the state would have a hard time proving they are engaging in money tranmission
561 2013-06-23 17:13:49 kadoban has joined
562 2013-06-23 17:13:51 <freewil> what do they do other than engage in freedom of speech?
563 2013-06-23 17:15:37 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
564 2013-06-23 17:18:37 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
565 2013-06-23 17:19:49 <freewil> you could say it's a trade organization that publishes information, software source code
566 2013-06-23 17:21:18 <sipa> as long as you don't start calling it The Trade Federation
567 2013-06-23 17:21:44 Guest__ has joined
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571 2013-06-23 17:25:13 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, RE Aaron, oh yeah, had forgotten about that :(
572 2013-06-23 17:25:29 <jgarzik> sipa, indeed, the statutes are obviously over-broad.
573 2013-06-23 17:25:32 nateless has joined
574 2013-06-23 17:25:41 <jgarzik> I would think this is EFF territory
575 2013-06-23 17:26:57 <jgarzik> Mr_Cloud, sorry, way too busy to provide free support of any sort
576 2013-06-23 17:27:02 <jgarzik> Mr_Cloud, ask in public, not in private
577 2013-06-23 17:27:12 <Mr_Cloud> Ok sure
578 2013-06-23 17:27:32 <Mr_Cloud> I'm having an issue communicating with the client.
579 2013-06-23 17:27:39 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
580 2013-06-23 17:28:17 <Mr_Cloud> Currently running in -server mode and this is the error I get when running code from the example at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5314.0 - error is pastebin'd: http://pastebin.com/rqkF9DMg
581 2013-06-23 17:28:30 <Mr_Cloud> If someone could halp, I would greatly appreciate it
582 2013-06-23 17:30:45 <Mr_Cloud> And like I said jgarzik, if you could have a look at the paste whenever you can, I'd appreciate it quite a lot
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592 2013-06-23 17:41:29 <Ferroh> When did bitcoin-qt start showing 8 decimals?
593 2013-06-23 17:41:31 <Ferroh> around 0.4?
594 2013-06-23 17:42:03 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
595 2013-06-23 17:43:11 cap2002 has joined
596 2013-06-23 17:43:12 <gmaxwell> 0.3.20 I think. Why ask here, you can search the commit history yourself. :)
597 2013-06-23 17:43:26 lupine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
598 2013-06-23 17:44:19 <Ferroh> I did try that first without much success, its a big history :)
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606 2013-06-23 17:56:10 <jgarzik> heh. reddit "[California] must have mistake B.F. for that Ripple company"
607 2013-06-23 17:56:10 tyn has joined
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613 2013-06-23 18:01:31 <saivann> I'd like to request review for this pull request : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/209
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636 2013-06-23 18:16:23 <skinnkavaj> "Generated coins must wait 120 blocks to mature before they can be spent."
637 2013-06-23 18:16:28 <skinnkavaj> Has this been changed?
638 2013-06-23 18:16:46 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: what are you quoting?
639 2013-06-23 18:16:58 <gmaxwell> (without context I can't give you a complete answer)
640 2013-06-23 18:17:01 <skinnkavaj> the original bitcoin.org website made by satoshi
641 2013-06-23 18:17:02 <skinnkavaj> http://web.archive.org/web/20090131115053/http://bitcoin.org/
642 2013-06-23 18:17:12 seeingidog__ has joined
643 2013-06-23 18:17:54 <skinnkavaj> highlight gmaxwell
644 2013-06-23 18:17:56 <gmaxwell> Thats still the reference client behavior. The protocol rule is 100 and always has been 100.
645 2013-06-23 18:18:02 lupine has joined
646 2013-06-23 18:18:27 execut3 has left ()
647 2013-06-23 18:18:48 shesek has joined
648 2013-06-23 18:18:52 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: So if i win the next block by mining i have to wait 100 x 10 minutes?
649 2013-06-23 18:18:59 <shesek> why is that? ("Generated coins must wait 120 blocks to mature before they can be spent.")
650 2013-06-23 18:19:30 zveda has joined
651 2013-06-23 18:19:41 <gmaxwell> shesek: because if the chain reorgs the generated coins will be gone forever, irreplacably.
652 2013-06-23 18:19:44 outletbtc_ has joined
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654 2013-06-23 18:20:09 <shesek> oh, I see. yeah, that makes sense.
655 2013-06-23 18:20:13 <sipa> which would lead to huge trees of transactions being invalidated
656 2013-06-23 18:20:22 <sipa> if the outputs would already be spent
657 2013-06-23 18:20:40 <Thepok> isnt that the same with existing coins??
658 2013-06-23 18:20:43 <gmaxwell> shesek: so it means that even if I was completely honest if I paid you out of newly generated coins events beyond my control could undo that payment and leave me unable to make good on it... .. and every subisiquent transaction rippling down.
659 2013-06-23 18:20:58 <sipa> Thepok: normal coins don't get reorganized away
660 2013-06-23 18:21:02 <gmaxwell> Thepok: no, normally when a transaction falls out of the chain its just reinserted.
661 2013-06-23 18:21:09 <sipa> Thepok: they can simply move to another part in the chain
662 2013-06-23 18:21:16 <Thepok> k
663 2013-06-23 18:21:18 <gmaxwell> Thepok: so invalidation only happens if there is dis[Dhonesty.
664 2013-06-23 18:21:21 seeingidog__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
665 2013-06-23 18:23:04 <shesek> but a 100 blocks sounds like a bit too much, no?
666 2013-06-23 18:23:17 <sipa> it very likely is overly cautious
667 2013-06-23 18:23:27 <sipa> and the 20 extra certainly is
668 2013-06-23 18:23:32 <sipa> but does it hurt?
669 2013-06-23 18:23:59 <shesek> it hurts the miners that wants to spend it
670 2013-06-23 18:24:10 <shesek> but I guess they can wait a little longer
671 2013-06-23 18:24:34 <shesek> its less than a day, not a big deal
672 2013-06-23 18:25:48 MobPhone has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.8 Just need to be Chiznillen)
673 2013-06-23 18:26:08 <gmaxwell> I don't think that 100 is overly cautious. It's certnatly hardly costly to have it be a fairly long time.
674 2013-06-23 18:26:20 <gmaxwell> certantly*
675 2013-06-23 18:26:45 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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679 2013-06-23 18:32:31 <gmaxwell> Might be fun to benchmark using this fork: http://hyperdex.org/performance/leveldb/
680 2013-06-23 18:33:14 <jrmithdobbs> someone seriously might to call gavin or someone and tell them to at least confirm/deny the damned forbes story on bitcoindfoundation.org somewhere
681 2013-06-23 18:33:18 <gmaxwell> (though we don't have that many entries)
682 2013-06-23 18:33:31 <jrmithdobbs> err bitcoinfoundation.org
683 2013-06-23 18:33:50 <_ingsoc> He said something about it earlier.
684 2013-06-23 18:33:56 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: see the scanned letter, it looks real enough. And the author of that post would certantly know.
685 2013-06-23 18:34:01 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
686 2013-06-23 18:34:49 <_ingsoc> Something about California thinking BF runs Bitcoin.
687 2013-06-23 18:38:30 <shesek> more like California thinking BF is running a money transmitter service
688 2013-06-23 18:41:50 AtashiCon has joined
689 2013-06-23 18:41:58 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
690 2013-06-23 18:42:10 Arnavion has joined
691 2013-06-23 18:45:38 savetheinternet has joined
692 2013-06-23 18:46:00 <_ingsoc> What the heck does that even mean?
693 2013-06-23 18:46:18 <_ingsoc> How do you prove that you're not?
694 2013-06-23 18:47:55 RoboTeddy has joined
695 2013-06-23 18:48:32 <shesek> there's some interesting information over at HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5927892 (the top-most comment)
696 2013-06-23 18:49:07 <shesek> the law to worry about here isn't even the one cited. It is ... 18 U.S.C. § 1960 ... And that law says that you don't have to be a money transmitter to get a letter such as the one received by the Bitcoin Foundation
697 2013-06-23 18:49:45 <_ingsoc> What about people that develop cryptocurrencies?
698 2013-06-23 18:49:52 <_ingsoc> Could they get in trouble?
699 2013-06-23 18:52:09 <shesek> IANAL, and I probably don't know more than you do
700 2013-06-23 18:52:17 Arnavion has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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702 2013-06-23 18:52:46 <_ingsoc> Hmmm.
703 2013-06-23 18:52:53 <_ingsoc> That top comment is pretty scary.
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718 2013-06-23 19:05:53 <owowo> What?! You don't have to be a "money transmitter" to get a letter telling you to "cease and desist" money transmitting?!
719 2013-06-23 19:06:38 <owowo> Must be law...
720 2013-06-23 19:06:50 <Diablo-D3> owowo: well
721 2013-06-23 19:06:54 <Diablo-D3> the letter is worthless either way
722 2013-06-23 19:07:27 <Diablo-D3> though I'd preemptively sue to get a declarative judgement against the government
723 2013-06-23 19:07:32 altamic has joined
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725 2013-06-23 19:07:56 <owowo> then can I write a letter to California to just... cease and desist ;o)
726 2013-06-23 19:08:28 <Diablo-D3> exactly
727 2013-06-23 19:08:31 altamic has joined
728 2013-06-23 19:08:45 <Diablo-D3> if a judge rules that you are, indeed, not a money transmitter and have never transmitted money
729 2013-06-23 19:08:50 altamic has left ()
730 2013-06-23 19:08:58 <Diablo-D3> then any further c&ds are harassment
731 2013-06-23 19:09:05 <Diablo-D3> which are then legally actionable
732 2013-06-23 19:10:50 <owowo> is Schwarzenegger still the gouvernator?
733 2013-06-23 19:10:54 <Diablo-D3> no
734 2013-06-23 19:11:02 <Diablo-D3> hasnt been for what, 4 years?
735 2013-06-23 19:13:20 <jgarzik> shesek, over on HN, note that ThinkComp's comment == Aaron Greenspan. Google around on him.
736 2013-06-23 19:14:01 savetheinternet has joined
737 2013-06-23 19:14:09 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: jesus, does everyone read HN now?
738 2013-06-23 19:14:31 <Arnavion> Does it count if I read it ironically?
739 2013-06-23 19:14:34 <jgarzik> I don't. But it infects other sites.
740 2013-06-23 19:14:38 <jgarzik> It is unavoidable.
741 2013-06-23 19:14:43 <jgarzik> like 4chan
742 2013-06-23 19:14:45 <Diablo-D3> I mena, I joined HN when it wasnt popular
743 2013-06-23 19:14:48 <owowo> what's HN?
744 2013-06-23 19:14:50 <Diablo-D3> now like, everybody fucking posts
745 2013-06-23 19:14:54 <Diablo-D3> and I have a gigantic karma
746 2013-06-23 19:15:00 <Diablo-D3> owowo: hacker news, pg's site
747 2013-06-23 19:16:31 Namworld has joined
748 2013-06-23 19:17:10 <_ingsoc> jgarzik: Do you foresee Bitcoin developers ever getting in trouble for developing Bitcoin? :/
749 2013-06-23 19:17:54 <jgarzik> My powers as a prophet are sadly limited. It's one reason I don't like to gamble.
750 2013-06-23 19:18:26 <Diablo-D3> _ingsoc: well
751 2013-06-23 19:18:31 <Diablo-D3> seeing as foss is free speech
752 2013-06-23 19:18:37 <Diablo-D3> I can only see this as becoming hilarious
753 2013-06-23 19:19:15 <_ingsoc> Yeah, but does the law look at it like that? :(
754 2013-06-23 19:19:24 <Diablo-D3> it basically has to
755 2013-06-23 19:19:27 <Diablo-D3> go read the constitution
756 2013-06-23 19:19:31 <k9quaint> how did California government being epically stupid suddenly become news?
757 2013-06-23 19:19:37 <_ingsoc> UK, Australia, Europe?
758 2013-06-23 19:19:41 <k9quaint> don't people have the internet?
759 2013-06-23 19:19:56 <Diablo-D3> _ingsoc: no one cares about foreign nations
760 2013-06-23 19:20:00 <_ingsoc> xD
761 2013-06-23 19:20:07 <Diablo-D3> do what we did over 200 years ago, replace your government with a better one
762 2013-06-23 19:20:18 <k9quaint> all the bitcoin foundation has to say is "we will hold our tech conference in New York" and the DFI will evaporate in a puff of logic
763 2013-06-23 19:20:19 psychophoniac has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
764 2013-06-23 19:20:19 <_ingsoc> You're kidding, right?
765 2013-06-23 19:20:52 nateless has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
766 2013-06-23 19:21:18 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: hah.
767 2013-06-23 19:22:44 <_ingsoc> Can't do anything nowadays without breaking the law or getting persecuted.
768 2013-06-23 19:23:06 seeingidog__ has joined
769 2013-06-23 19:23:34 broku_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
770 2013-06-23 19:23:43 <Diablo-D3> the average person commits 3 felonies a day
771 2013-06-23 19:23:48 <k9quaint> _ingsoc: move to somalia, they don't have that problem
772 2013-06-23 19:24:16 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: not true
773 2013-06-23 19:24:23 <Diablo-D3> if you're caught being white in somalia
774 2013-06-23 19:24:25 <Diablo-D3> they'll kill you
775 2013-06-23 19:24:30 <matjeh> somalia: land of the free
776 2013-06-23 19:24:41 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: no, they will try to kill you
777 2013-06-23 19:24:52 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: but you won't be breaking the law :P
778 2013-06-23 19:25:18 <Diablo-D3> true, I could just show up with a tank.
779 2013-06-23 19:25:41 <k9quaint> or a star destroyer
780 2013-06-23 19:26:13 <Diablo-D3> s/star/aegis/
781 2013-06-23 19:27:10 <jgarzik> The average person sees 3 incorrect, pulled-out-of-your-ass statistics per day.
782 2013-06-23 19:27:13 <k9quaint> evaporating people from orbit with turbo lasers > floating on the ocean :)
783 2013-06-23 19:27:27 <michagogo> jgarzik: Also, 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot
784 2013-06-23 19:27:28 <k9quaint> jgarzik: don't get all meta on me, i havent had my coffee yet
785 2013-06-23 19:27:41 <Diablo-D3> evaporating people from 12 miles out at sea with cruise missiles > floating in space
786 2013-06-23 19:28:10 <k9quaint> I can't believe you would pick a boat over a space ship with FTL
787 2013-06-23 19:28:22 <saivann> ..
788 2013-06-23 19:28:45 <Diablo-D3> with a boat, I can still go to shore and fuck ebony princesses (after I destroyed their villages of mud huts)
789 2013-06-23 19:29:04 <Diablo-D3> with a star destroyer, its pretty much just stormtroopers, and there are so few female stormtroopers =/
790 2013-06-23 19:29:06 <k9quaint> saivann: this is clearly related to bitcoin development, I just can't see how
791 2013-06-23 19:29:17 <saivann> :)
792 2013-06-23 19:29:33 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: well, we could always buy our own country
793 2013-06-23 19:30:10 <owowo> I think greece has some island on sale
794 2013-06-23 19:30:49 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: I would rather just conquer the Caymens or BVI
795 2013-06-23 19:31:02 <k9quaint> make BTC the national currency
796 2013-06-23 19:31:11 <Diablo-D3> bvi?
797 2013-06-23 19:31:35 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
798 2013-06-23 19:31:43 <k9quaint> british virgin islands
799 2013-06-23 19:31:54 <k9quaint> its where the brits send all their virgins apparently
800 2013-06-23 19:32:00 <sipa> s/send/get/
801 2013-06-23 19:32:36 <k9quaint> there are virgins in britain? since when?
802 2013-06-23 19:33:20 <saivann> Anyone to review and comment this replacement text about pseudo-anonymity on bitcoin.org?
803 2013-06-23 19:33:21 <saivann> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/209
804 2013-06-23 19:33:31 <saivann> I think it needs to be changed since a while
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813 2013-06-23 19:41:56 <sipa> jgarzik, gmaxwell, wumpus: can I have some ACKs on 2783 and 2784 (shouldn't be controversial, i think...)
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815 2013-06-23 19:44:23 <sipa> 2750 also seems mergable
816 2013-06-23 19:44:35 <sipa> eh, i mean 2743
817 2013-06-23 19:45:14 <sipa> some comments on 2702 would be nice
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827 2013-06-23 19:48:46 <michagogo> sipa: Is the fact that 2784 failed to build not a problem?
828 2013-06-23 19:49:13 <sipa> michagogo: everything will fail to build
829 2013-06-23 19:49:23 <sipa> until pulltester is updated to use -regtest instead of patches
830 2013-06-23 19:49:27 <michagogo> Oh, is the pull tester borked
831 2013-06-23 19:49:30 <michagogo> Ah
832 2013-06-23 19:50:59 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt could you update pulltester, now that CChainParams is merged?
833 2013-06-23 19:51:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
834 2013-06-23 19:51:16 Insti has joined
835 2013-06-23 19:51:31 <michagogo> ;;help later
836 2013-06-23 19:51:31 <gribble> Error: There is no command "later".
837 2013-06-23 19:51:34 <michagogo> o_O
838 2013-06-23 19:51:57 <sipa> ;;help later tell
839 2013-06-23 19:51:58 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
840 2013-06-23 19:53:34 <michagogo> ;;later tell * test
841 2013-06-23 19:53:34 <gribble> Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
842 2013-06-23 19:53:43 <michagogo> ;;later tell *i* test
843 2013-06-23 19:53:43 <gribble> Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
844 2013-06-23 19:53:57 <michagogo> I guess it can't actually contain wildcard characters
845 2013-06-23 19:54:08 GordonG3kko has joined
846 2013-06-23 19:54:15 <sipa> ;;later tell micha* maybe
847 2013-06-23 19:54:16 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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859 2013-06-23 20:22:10 <sipa> jgarzik: what about inverting the logic: if you have not received any
860 2013-06-23 20:22:20 <sipa> thing for a minute, send a ping
861 2013-06-23 20:23:48 <jgarzik> sipa, yes, that seems like far more common and normal keepalive logic
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863 2013-06-23 20:31:12 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
864 2013-06-23 20:31:18 <michagogo> sipa: Wait, what does it do now?
865 2013-06-23 20:31:21 chorao has joined
866 2013-06-23 20:32:04 <michagogo> keepalive pings should only be necessary in the absence of other traffic
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929 2013-06-23 21:29:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: saw that...Ill fix it tomorrow
930 2013-06-23 21:29:50 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
931 2013-06-23 21:29:50 <BlueMatt> or...maybe tuesday
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941 2013-06-23 21:47:53 <BlueMatt> is the foundation even registered in california?
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949 2013-06-23 22:05:16 <hpprinter100> bitcoin ATM http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/
950 2013-06-23 22:05:46 <hpprinter100> BOOST BITCOIN FUND I LLC ADAM DRAPER?
951 2013-06-23 22:06:25 agnostic98 has joined
952 2013-06-23 22:07:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't think that matters
953 2013-06-23 22:07:30 <BlueMatt> yea, a state cant impose rules on something not in its jurisdiction
954 2013-06-23 22:07:46 <BlueMatt> to be fair, what it is trying to impose cant happen anyway, but...
955 2013-06-23 22:09:17 <sipa> doing business within a state falls under its jurisdoction, whether you're registered there or not
956 2013-06-23 22:09:51 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
957 2013-06-23 22:09:52 <sipa> but IANAL
958 2013-06-23 22:09:53 nomailing has quit (Quit: nomailing)
959 2013-06-23 22:10:31 <BlueMatt> well, I suppose the issue is they mistakenly think the foundation does any business at all
960 2013-06-23 22:11:32 <jchp> sure sounds like a mistake or misunderstanding
961 2013-06-23 22:12:11 <jchp> it also sounds like aaron greenspan whined to the state
962 2013-06-23 22:12:19 <jchp> (but that's just speculation)
963 2013-06-23 22:12:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure
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995 2013-06-23 22:58:07 <sipa> jgarzik: modified it to a send-after-not-receiving
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997 2013-06-23 22:58:24 <sipa> jgarzik: while testing, discovered that we were now dumping peers.dat every 10 (!!!) seconds
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1002 2013-06-23 23:05:57 <Luke-Jr> O.o
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1004 2013-06-23 23:06:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, wat
1005 2013-06-23 23:07:22 <sipa> it used to be every 100s, but it seems a 0 was lost in the threads refactor
1006 2013-06-23 23:07:36 <gmaxwell> hm. When did that start? I'd seen some weird peers.dat behavior prior to the last release. I'm not sure why I didn't follow up on it.
1007 2013-06-23 23:07:44 <gmaxwell> yea, that makes sense, darn.
1008 2013-06-23 23:07:51 <sipa> so since 0.8.2
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1010 2013-06-23 23:08:13 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sipa money transmitter regulations define doing business in the state very broadly, that being said im pretty sure it's just a blanket C&D that they sent to anybody they could think of
1011 2013-06-23 23:08:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's really obvious too, as it logs it.
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1013 2013-06-23 23:08:34 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: has anyone else reported recieving one yet?
1014 2013-06-23 23:08:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i doubt anybody else would
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1016 2013-06-23 23:09:01 <phantomcircuit> it's generally a bad idea to poke the regulators in the eye unless it's super obvious they're wrong
1017 2013-06-23 23:09:56 <gmaxwell> I mean, if they managed to hit something random that accepts bitcoin donations.
1018 2013-06-23 23:10:12 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, im not aware of anybody else reporting it
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1020 2013-06-23 23:10:19 <phantomcircuit> but it reads as a very generic C&D
1021 2013-06-23 23:10:28 <davout> whatever way you look at it this stuff is good stuff, either they fail, or massive streisand effect
1022 2013-06-23 23:10:57 <davout> and in addition to having an imaginary japanese person as god we can have an american as martyr
1023 2013-06-23 23:11:53 <phantomcircuit> davout, dollars to donuts a simple response of "we dont do that" will suffice
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1025 2013-06-23 23:12:24 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I wonder if it's related to all the DP promotion at the conference
1026 2013-06-23 23:12:28 <davout> i think it already has been sent given the date on the letter
1027 2013-06-23 23:12:32 <Luke-Jr> the Foundation really screwed up approving that
1028 2013-06-23 23:12:34 <davout> (i mean the answer)
1029 2013-06-23 23:13:01 <davout> Luke-Jr: DP?
1030 2013-06-23 23:13:19 <sipa> davout: dead puppies, Luke-Jr's code term for SatoshiDice
1031 2013-06-23 23:13:23 Squidicuz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1032 2013-06-23 23:13:30 <davout> haha thanks
1033 2013-06-23 23:13:41 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, that isn't entirely unlikely
1034 2013-06-23 23:13:57 <davout> reminds me of that earthworm jim 2 stage where you had to bounce puppies around
1035 2013-06-23 23:14:11 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what? how did I get the blame for that nowâ
1036 2013-06-23 23:14:13 <gmaxwell> I think I actually originated the term.
1037 2013-06-23 23:14:39 <Luke-Jr> I went I think like a week before I finally gave in and asked "okay, what's DP?" >.>
1038 2013-06-23 23:14:39 <davout> i think satoshidice is quite irrelevant in this particular matter
1039 2013-06-23 23:14:55 <davout> otherwise the C&D woudl have been about gambling wouldn't it?
1040 2013-06-23 23:15:00 <gmaxwell> It felt weird saying SD over and over again, esp when we were mostly talking about generic behavior patterns which they exemplified but weren't unique to them.
1041 2013-06-23 23:15:10 <davout> the threat to the state is much much deeper than simple online gambling
1042 2013-06-23 23:15:15 <phantomcircuit> davout, in the us there are rules against facilitating payments for the purposes of gambling, those rules are significant and heavily enforced
1043 2013-06-23 23:15:25 <sipa> Luke-Jr: really? apologies then - i wonder who came up with it
1044 2013-06-23 23:15:36 <gmaxwell> davout: hard to sayâ a lot of the money transmitter prosecution in the US in the past decade has really seemed to be online gambling related.
1045 2013-06-23 23:15:53 <davout> phantomcircuit: i know, that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying the focus is probably not on online gambling, did the C&D even mention "gambling" at all ?
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1047 2013-06-23 23:15:56 <gmaxwell> Though its hard to tell if online gambling is the real motiviation or its just that the gambling places tended to use the fringe money processors.
1048 2013-06-23 23:16:32 <gmaxwell> But as I said earlier, if you want to grasp at straws go for Aaron's nussance lawsuits accusing the CA government of unequally enforcing the money transmitter laws.
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1059 2013-06-23 23:37:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, nearly all of it has been
1060 2013-06-23 23:37:58 <phantomcircuit> but that's largely been outright abject money laundering
1061 2013-06-23 23:38:11 <gmaxwell> ::nods::
1062 2013-06-23 23:38:31 <phantomcircuit> davout, ^
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1065 2013-06-23 23:43:26 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, also fun fact ev who owns dp works for bitinstant
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1067 2013-06-23 23:50:26 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: used to
1068 2013-06-23 23:50:34 <Luke-Jr> last I heard, Erik no longer works for BitInstant
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1070 2013-06-23 23:53:34 <jgarzik> sipa, ouch, certainly an undesirable level of dumping ;p
1071 2013-06-23 23:54:22 <sipa> jgarzik: that actually results in around 1 Mbit/s of disk I/O alone...
1072 2013-06-23 23:54:41 dansmith_btc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1073 2013-06-23 23:54:46 <sipa> zZzZ
1074 2013-06-23 23:57:36 <dugo> printouts of www.law.cornell.edu complete w/ ads .. seriously!?
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