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   3 2013-06-25 00:03:59 <sipa> devrandom: GPLv3 license for my (very minimal) gitian co tributions: ok
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   6 2013-06-25 00:09:22 <devrandom> thank you
   7 2013-06-25 00:10:11 <devrandom> the tor people did a Gitian build of TBB... impressive.
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 184 2013-06-25 03:24:20 <Luke-Jr> anyone recall why there's no transactions/remove mutation in BIP 23? :/
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 206 2013-06-25 03:58:47 <random_cat> where are BIPs?
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 213 2013-06-25 04:09:58 <Luke-Jr> random_cat: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP
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 231 2013-06-25 04:42:46 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: thoughts? http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/libblkmaker/commit/e7d36757ef0532b94350c6691edf41d9d5877eb6/diffs/1e44b127ba61db2e83387cc7741385d4393f2e5b
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 409 2013-06-25 09:44:27 <TradeFortress> 5 BTC bounty if you help me patch bitcoind so I can call "getaddresstransactions" that lists transactions of any address.
 410 2013-06-25 09:45:07 toffoo has quit ()
 411 2013-06-25 09:45:12 setkeh has joined
 412 2013-06-25 09:46:07 <swulf--> It wouldn't be too hard to code that up, but the problem is that you have to scan the entire blockchain for each call...
 413 2013-06-25 09:46:11 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 414 2013-06-25 09:47:06 <swulf--> Or build a new database that maps address->transactions, which (I think) would double the hd space requirements.
 415 2013-06-25 09:47:16 kadoban has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 416 2013-06-25 09:47:39 <TradeFortress> swulf--, I can do that..
 417 2013-06-25 09:47:47 <swulf--> which?
 418 2013-06-25 09:47:50 <TradeFortress> except I know about zero C-- :/
 419 2013-06-25 09:48:07 <TradeFortress> Which is why I'll pay you 5 BTC if you get me a patch that I can just query json-rpc.
 420 2013-06-25 09:48:24 <swulf--> Hmmm.
 421 2013-06-25 09:49:24 easy-iPad has joined
 422 2013-06-25 09:49:50 <lianj> TradeFortress: the question comes up often, i think the summary is that bitcoind isn't the tool to add this feature, you have to write something ontop. its not just double the disk space, more like 10 times.
 423 2013-06-25 09:50:27 <swulf--> lianj: why 10x?  A table of addresses, a table of transactions, and a 1-to-many mapping..
 424 2013-06-25 09:50:47 lupine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 426 2013-06-25 09:51:05 <lianj> sites like blockexplorer or blockchain.info have build such a db for themself, they all use a seperate (unrelated to bitcoind) db for it.
 427 2013-06-25 09:51:25 <Scrat> TradeFortress: https://github.com/jtobey/bitcoin-abe
 428 2013-06-25 09:51:27 <lianj> swulf--: you need a table of outputs and inputs too
 429 2013-06-25 09:52:00 <swulf--> linaj: which are just addresses, technically.  you could include in the 1-to-many mapping whether the connection is to an input, an output, and the input/output index.
 430 2013-06-25 09:52:14 <TradeFortress> Scrat, hmm, that's nice. does it scale?
 431 2013-06-25 09:52:29 <swulf--> bitcoin-abe is in use in a lot of production sites
 432 2013-06-25 09:52:34 <lianj> TradeFortress: with sqlite no. with postgres yes-ish
 433 2013-06-25 09:53:07 <Scrat> sure, it reduces the problem to an properly indexed SQL query
 434 2013-06-25 09:53:18 <Scrat> or multiple ones with JOINs
 435 2013-06-25 09:53:19 <swulf--> right
 436 2013-06-25 09:53:20 <sipa> TradeFortress: i've implemented a getaddresstransactions before
 437 2013-06-25 09:53:24 <sipa> TradeFortress: maybe i still have the code
 438 2013-06-25 09:53:34 <sipa> but i didn't like it enough to pullrequest it
 439 2013-06-25 09:53:46 <TradeFortress> sipa, if you can dig that out and it works on latest with okay performance, I'll tip you 5 btc.
 440 2013-06-25 09:54:02 <sipa> actually, i hate it... i don't think people should build infrastructure that depends on such a huge index to index
 441 2013-06-25 09:54:08 <sipa> but they probably will anyway
 442 2013-06-25 09:54:26 <Habbie> if it scales with postgres but not with sqlite it's likely that the problem is "default sqlite settings"
 443 2013-06-25 09:54:46 <TradeFortress> okay. well this is actually for an offchain payments system. I'd like to include a block explorer in it, so people don't have to exit the site.
 444 2013-06-25 09:55:02 <Scrat> I bet it's the other way around. default postgres settings suck for big DBs
 445 2013-06-25 09:55:08 <sipa> if it's offchain, why do you need to observe the chain...?
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 448 2013-06-25 09:56:43 <TradeFortress> sipa, cause people might still want to see. it doesn't  take much effort to make a block explorer using the rpc calls, but you can't lookup by address
 449 2013-06-25 09:57:34 <sipa> TradeFortress: https://github.com/realazthat/overblock
 450 2013-06-25 09:57:38 <sipa> RPC-based block explorer
 451 2013-06-25 09:57:47 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 452 2013-06-25 09:58:20 <sipa> TradeFortress: i still have the patch, but i'll need to rebase it
 453 2013-06-25 09:58:23 <TradeFortress> sipa, no lookup by address which is what I need. I already have TX, blocks, etc.
 454 2013-06-25 09:58:45 <sipa> i'll see if i find some time this evening
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 457 2013-06-25 10:01:32 <TD> TradeFortress: how does your service work?
 458 2013-06-25 10:03:00 <TradeFortress> TD: deposit coins in > [wait for it to confirm] > send offchain to other inputs.io users > withdrawal to blockchain
 459 2013-06-25 10:03:19 <TD> and why would someone use it?
 460 2013-06-25 10:04:07 <TradeFortress> because it's easy (user side & developer to integrate), because it works with my services, and because it's much more secure
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 462 2013-06-25 10:05:33 <TD> how is it more secure?
 463 2013-06-25 10:06:00 <TD> i ask because such services have a long track record of either getting hacked, being run by scammers, or both
 464 2013-06-25 10:06:31 <TradeFortress> right, this is defintely a good point. online wallet services do require you to trust the operator. this includes blockchain.info
 465 2013-06-25 10:06:53 <sipa> especially when they offer a blockexplorer
 466 2013-06-25 10:06:58 <TradeFortress> your browser will happily run whatever JS the server feeds.
 467 2013-06-25 10:07:11 <TD> there is also the question of whether you will be regulated as a bank
 468 2013-06-25 10:07:14 <sipa> you may try to have your blockexplorer show that a transaction from you did confirm already, while you didn't send it at all :)
 469 2013-06-25 10:07:38 <TradeFortress> tell me you  check the source code every time you opened your "My Wallet".
 470 2013-06-25 10:08:02 <TradeFortress> because if you haven't checked once, you could be compromised. your passphrase could have been stored and sent.
 471 2013-06-25 10:08:11 <sipa> TradeFortress: you're preaching to the choir
 472 2013-06-25 10:08:23 <TradeFortress> I guess :P
 473 2013-06-25 10:09:11 <TradeFortress> Inputs.io is different on the server side. our bitcoin server is seperate from our web server, you never send your password to the server
 474 2013-06-25 10:09:28 <sipa> so?
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 476 2013-06-25 10:09:52 <TradeFortress> we don't pretend that we can't take your coins.
 477 2013-06-25 10:09:52 <sipa> (i mean, that's good security practice, but not a reason why people should trust you)
 478 2013-06-25 10:10:01 <sipa> ha, i like that :D
 479 2013-06-25 10:10:18 <TradeFortress> I've run coinlenders for 3 months now I think
 480 2013-06-25 10:10:47 <TradeFortress> and I've ran an investment fund in BTC for half a year, with transparent accounts :)
 481 2013-06-25 10:12:20 <TradeFortress> because the bitcoin sending is server side, inputs.io can make use of additional security measures, such as requesting an email confirmation if you're signing in from a different location or useragent.
 482 2013-06-25 10:12:46 <TradeFortress> and login rate limits, which makes brute forcing impractical
 483 2013-06-25 10:14:19 <TradeFortress> key point is, I'm not incompetent when it comes to web security, with real world experience in handling 5 digit coin sums and never been hacked.
 484 2013-06-25 10:14:34 psychophoniac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 486 2013-06-25 10:15:06 <TD> unfortunately, i would not trust anyone at this point to hold my coins. running a bitcoin bank is simply unlike any other kind of web app. normal best practices are insufficient.
 487 2013-06-25 10:15:22 <TD> if you try this, you WILL get hacked or smacked by your local regulators, or both
 488 2013-06-25 10:15:35 <TD> so i would recommend finding an alternative business plan.
 489 2013-06-25 10:16:50 <TradeFortress> TD, there are different crowds of users, and Inputs.io is not for the "i <3 github" crowd.
 490 2013-06-25 10:17:20 <TradeFortress> Inputs.io still has advanced features like messaging signing (in a single format, no fumbling over whitespaces or where it begins or whatever)
 491 2013-06-25 10:18:00 <TradeFortress> But a web wallet *does* offer many benefits. Such as 2 factor auth, access it from anywhere (mobile, tablet, TV, whatever), cloud addressbook, and there's the off chain aspect.
 492 2013-06-25 10:18:26 <BlueMatt> is the 2-factor bitcoin multisig, or shitty login 2-factor?
 493 2013-06-25 10:19:16 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 494 2013-06-25 10:19:22 <TradeFortress> login 2fa but multisig / escrow are in the pipeline
 495 2013-06-25 10:19:22 <TD> sure, there can be some benefits, but you're comparing features you haven't written yet to the currently existing code for client side wallets. 2-factor auth helps users avoid losing their passwords, it doesn't stop you getting hacked.   and the goal is that we can have 2-factor auth on the client side too, via devices like the trezor.
 496 2013-06-25 10:19:47 <TradeFortress> TD, it kinda does when the bulk of coins are in cold storage held by many different people in a multisig address, no?
 497 2013-06-25 10:20:12 <TD> no. cold storage is not a panacea. you still have to service withdrawal requests from userse
 498 2013-06-25 10:20:18 <TD> and how do you know such a request is legitimate?
 499 2013-06-25 10:20:37 <TD> cold storage can help avoid a 100% instant game-over scenario, but individual users can still get hacked
 500 2013-06-25 10:21:03 <TD> and even then, your cold storage has to be secure as well. as the amounts of money stored go up, the types of attacks you might have to deal with go up as well
 501 2013-06-25 10:21:22 <TD> e.g. breakins to your offices or facilities, kidnapping or bribery or blackmail of your staff.
 502 2013-06-25 10:21:43 <TradeFortress> I'm not denying that this is easy and there are many challenges in regards to security
 503 2013-06-25 10:21:45 <TD> really, there's just no amount of money you could pay me to run a bitcoin bank. all the features can be reimplemented with client side wallets, and you avoid painting a massive target on your back
 504 2013-06-25 10:22:08 <TradeFortress> users can get hacked, but their wallet.dat could also be stolen.
 505 2013-06-25 10:22:18 da2ce7 has quit (2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 506 2013-06-25 10:22:36 <TradeFortress> with a keylogger that makes your encryption useless
 507 2013-06-25 10:22:43 <BlueMatt> trezor
 508 2013-06-25 10:23:10 <TradeFortress> that's not a client side wallet.
 509 2013-06-25 10:23:23 <TD> it plugs into my client? how is it not a client side wallet?
 510 2013-06-25 10:23:33 da2ce7 has joined
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 512 2013-06-25 10:24:11 <TradeFortress> You need to buy it, good luck convincing someone who is new to bitcoin to do that
 513 2013-06-25 10:25:44 <TradeFortress> like I said, people who are paranoid (which is a good thing) probably won't use Inputs.io except for maybe a small amount. like a float you keep on an exchange.
 514 2013-06-25 10:26:45 <TradeFortress> but there are people who's willing to use a hosted solution with benefits. I know, because CL requires people to trust me and people use coinlenders.
 515 2013-06-25 10:31:15 <TD> sipa: it's not really a duplicate, is it? the latter pull req involves some git changes too
 516 2013-06-25 10:32:05 michagogo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 517 2013-06-25 10:32:38 <sipa> TD: hmm?
 518 2013-06-25 10:32:48 <TD> sipa: updating leveldb
 519 2013-06-25 10:32:51 <sipa> yes
 520 2013-06-25 10:33:16 <TD> sipa: changing the version seems to be a different thing to changing how it's integrated with git. though i am not sure what the benefits are of the subtree stuff
 521 2013-06-25 10:33:45 <sipa> the subtree stuff is already merged in a previous commit
 522 2013-06-25 10:34:05 <sipa> TD: the idea is being able to maintain a separate repo/branch to maintain our leveldb branch, and be able to easily sync from that
 523 2013-06-25 10:34:28 rdymac has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 524 2013-06-25 10:34:43 <TD> it seems like it's still possible to edit the code and create an ordinary pull request for it though. that's confusing.
 525 2013-06-25 10:34:52 * TD isn't sure he likes the idea of git magic in this
 526 2013-06-25 10:35:18 <TD> why is this complexity worth it? there wasn't anything wrong with the previous approach
 527 2013-06-25 10:35:23 <sipa> there is no magic really - it's just automatically finding changes in one repo and applying them to a subdir of the other
 528 2013-06-25 10:35:43 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 529 2013-06-25 10:35:48 <sipa> well, that's why i've asked for opinions about it on vinnie's pullreq
 530 2013-06-25 10:35:58 <sipa> and i'd rather know how we want to deal with this first
 531 2013-06-25 10:36:18 <TradeFortress> LOL @ No LTC support, do people actually come here and ask about ltc?
 532 2013-06-25 10:36:25 <TD> the pull request looks identical, just with an auto-generated commit message
 533 2013-06-25 10:36:32 <sipa> TD: yes
 534 2013-06-25 10:36:46 <TD> ok. now i see why you close mine as a duplicate :)
 535 2013-06-25 10:36:48 <sipa> but i want to know whether we want a bitcoin/leveldb.git repo for example
 536 2013-06-25 10:37:09 daktak has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 537 2013-06-25 10:37:16 <sipa> i'd like that - i find it pretty ugly that we maintain a leveldb branch whose authorative source is a subdir of our repository
 538 2013-06-25 10:38:02 * TD shrugs
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 540 2013-06-25 10:38:07 <TD> it's simple and robust. there's a lot to be said for that.
 541 2013-06-25 10:38:48 <sipa> well, that's the nice thing about git-subtree: you don't need to care or even know about it if you only want to build
 542 2013-06-25 10:41:11 <TD> fair enough
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 618 2013-06-25 13:33:22 <Vinnie_win> sup
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 641 2013-06-25 14:16:39 <jgarzik> mornin'
 642 2013-06-25 14:16:42 <gavinandresen> mornin
 643 2013-06-25 14:17:01 <gavinandresen> … my first semi-normal work morning in a few weeks....
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 645 2013-06-25 14:17:38 * jgarzik performs his morning VirtualBox clock kick, on OSX (suspend + resume yields outdated clock inside Linux VM)
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 649 2013-06-25 14:20:02 <TD> it's gavinandresen ! he has returned to us !
 650 2013-06-25 14:20:11 agnostic98 has joined
 651 2013-06-25 14:20:40 <gavinandresen> … got a brain transplant from the NSA when I was down in DC, though....
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 653 2013-06-25 14:21:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, that means you're now supersmart and massively parallel?  Good, I've got some pull reqs for you to review
 654 2013-06-25 14:21:22 * jgarzik runs
 655 2013-06-25 14:21:59 <TD> it means we don't have to CC him on threads anymore
 656 2013-06-25 14:22:01 <TD> he knows already
 657 2013-06-25 14:22:25 <gavinandresen> BEHOLD, GAVIN THE OMNISCIENT!
 658 2013-06-25 14:22:26 <gjs278> time is always off for me too
 659 2013-06-25 14:22:31 <gjs278> but it usually jumps up right away
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 668 2013-06-25 14:36:09 <tgs3> gavinandresen was the one that was sent to FBI back in goold old days?
 669 2013-06-25 14:36:22 <tgs3> did they propose anything in diection of PRISM >_> ?
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 677 2013-06-25 14:43:00 <jgarzik> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-network-recovering-from-ddos-attack/
 678 2013-06-25 14:43:24 <jgarzik> Sigh.  That's what I get for being vague.
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 683 2013-06-25 14:43:58 <TD> press cycle!
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 686 2013-06-25 14:44:29 <sipa> gavinandresen: ACK on 0.8.3 with strip-tx-before-relay + 2789
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 689 2013-06-25 14:45:53 <gmaxwell> I've been running 0.8.2 with strip before relay plus 2789 for ~two days on my laptop, fwiw.
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 691 2013-06-25 14:48:05 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I'll consider that another ACK then
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 698 2013-06-25 14:51:12 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, ACK what sipa just siad
 699 2013-06-25 14:51:14 <jgarzik> *said
 700 2013-06-25 14:52:08 <gmaxwell> Yes, ACK on that.
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 705 2013-06-25 14:54:37 <Mr_Cloud> curl --user loluser:pass --data-binary "{\"method\": \"gettransaction\"}" http://127.0.0.1:8332/ <<
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 707 2013-06-25 14:54:49 <Mr_Cloud> What comes after gettransaction?
 708 2013-06-25 14:55:09 <Mr_Cloud> <txid> << Do I need the funky brackets?
 709 2013-06-25 14:55:26 <sipa> no
 710 2013-06-25 14:56:05 <Mr_Cloud> 'Cause if I write \"gettransaction 023y9ahdf9asghf7893wg\" then it doesn't like it
 711 2013-06-25 14:56:15 <TD> you need txindex
 712 2013-06-25 14:56:21 <sipa> and you need to pass it as an argument
 713 2013-06-25 14:56:26 <sipa> not as the name of the method
 714 2013-06-25 14:56:41 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 715 2013-06-25 14:56:45 <Mr_Cloud> Ah ok
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 717 2013-06-25 14:56:57 <Mr_Cloud> So gettransaction is the name of the command only
 718 2013-06-25 14:57:05 <Mr_Cloud> And the txid should be separate
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 721 2013-06-25 14:58:51 <gavinandresen> sipa jgarzik gmaxwell : pushed https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/0.8.3   --  look reasonalbe ?
 722 2013-06-25 14:59:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, ACK
 723 2013-06-25 14:59:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: 2013-06-20 14:43:50 Dropping 1500005 bytes of tx before relay!!!
 724 2013-06-25 14:59:58 <sipa> that was the last on mainnet
 725 2013-06-25 15:00:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: ACK
 726 2013-06-25 15:00:28 <gavinandresen> cool, I'll push a v0.8.3 tag and start gitian building
 727 2013-06-25 15:00:50 <gmaxwell> sounds good to me.
 728 2013-06-25 15:01:12 <warren> i'll do a gitian build
 729 2013-06-25 15:02:06 <gavinandresen> * [new tag]         v0.8.3 -> v0.8.3
 730 2013-06-25 15:02:07 * jgarzik needs to dedicate a day to getting gitian going
 731 2013-06-25 15:02:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, oh
 732 2013-06-25 15:02:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, please push DOS fix to HEAD
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 734 2013-06-25 15:02:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, can't have a fix on a branch, and not in HEAD ;p
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 737 2013-06-25 15:02:48 <sivu> i'll update server to 0.8.3
 738 2013-06-25 15:02:57 <jgarzik> er, master, I mean
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 740 2013-06-25 15:03:37 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ok, I'll cherry-pick and push to master
 741 2013-06-25 15:03:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, tnx
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 749 2013-06-25 15:07:32 <sivu> why the compile commandline has  -fno-stack-protector -fstack-protector-all
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 754 2013-06-25 15:08:08 <gmaxwell> sivu: because ubuntu patches the compilter to -fstack-protector and just adding -fstack-protector-all didn't work right, IIRC.
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 756 2013-06-25 15:08:36 * jgarzik_ kicks freenode
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 758 2013-06-25 15:08:43 <jgarzik_> dammit bitmessage, please become a better-IRC
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 760 2013-06-25 15:08:49 <sivu> gmaxwell: sounds like ubuntu allright
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 768 2013-06-25 15:10:24 <michagogo_> Wow, 0.8.3 already?
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 779 2013-06-25 15:15:14 <michagogo> Is the 0.8.3 final? If so, I'll reboot into Ubuntu and build
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 781 2013-06-25 15:15:43 <warren> sounds like they're doing gitian builds to verify determinism.
 782 2013-06-25 15:15:45 <warren> i'm buliding to help
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 789 2013-06-25 15:17:51 <jgarzik_> warren, what the heck is a "supernode" in litecoin?
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 796 2013-06-25 15:18:28 <warren> jgarzik: we had a unique problem and that was our dumb temporary solution
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 820 2013-06-25 15:22:13 <Mr_Cloud> Oh mang, so close
 821 2013-06-25 15:22:17 <Mr_Cloud> Yet so far!
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 830 2013-06-25 15:23:27 <Mr_Cloud> Guys, what am I doing wrong?
 831 2013-06-25 15:23:27 imd23 has joined
 832 2013-06-25 15:23:29 <Mr_Cloud> curl --user lol:hai --data-binary "{\"method\": \"gettransaction\", \"txid\":\"5ahdfauhfu9adh00etc\" --url http://127.0.0.1:8332/
 833 2013-06-25 15:23:29 tsche has joined
 834 2013-06-25 15:23:29 <Mr_Cloud> curl: no URL specified!
 835 2013-06-25 15:23:29 <Mr_Cloud> curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information
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 837 2013-06-25 15:24:40 <imd23> hi there
 838 2013-06-25 15:24:43 <michagogo> Mr_Cloud: I don't think you need --url
 839 2013-06-25 15:24:43 <sipa> Mr_Cloud: you're missing a closing bracket
 840 2013-06-25 15:24:47 <imd23> how is everyone going?
 841 2013-06-25 15:24:47 <michagogo> And that
 842 2013-06-25 15:24:54 <sipa> Mr_Cloud: and look up the specification for JSON-RPC, please
 843 2013-06-25 15:24:57 <michagogo> Mr_Cloud: AFAIK the last argument is taken as the URL
 844 2013-06-25 15:25:14 <imd23> I was wondering if anyone did a preformance /througput test of bitcoind ?
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 850 2013-06-25 15:25:57 <Mr_Cloud> Hory shet, I am too! Thanks sipa and michagogo
 851 2013-06-25 15:26:10 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 852 2013-06-25 15:26:10 <imd23> I am developing a new service and need to implement a roboust core for transactions and queries, is bitcoind fast enought to take this task?
 853 2013-06-25 15:26:20 <Mr_Cloud> And sipa, I did look at the documentation. Only I'm having trouble interpreting it
 854 2013-06-25 15:26:29 <Mr_Cloud> Which is why I'm asking for syntax help on here
 855 2013-06-25 15:26:37 <Mr_Cloud> (I wish I was better at this lol)
 856 2013-06-25 15:27:02 <michagogo> imd23: What exactly are you planning to do with bitcoind?
 857 2013-06-25 15:27:12 <sipa> Mr_Cloud: please read the documentation instead of trying to guess and then complaining here that it doesn't work
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 860 2013-06-25 15:29:49 <warren> gavinandresen: gmaxwell: http://pastebin.com/YJ8CpXUH  gitian sha256sums
 861 2013-06-25 15:29:55 <Mr_Cloud> sipa: My trouble seems to be interpreting the documentation, as I've never worked with curl before. It's obvious that the level of programming present in this channel is way beyond me, so perhaps there is a more beginner-friendly channel where people can ask questions?
 862 2013-06-25 15:29:59 imd23 has joined
 863 2013-06-25 15:31:15 <michagogo> warren: Why not just fork and PR gitian.sigs?
 864 2013-06-25 15:31:41 <warren> michagogo: hm?  I didn't look into how that works yet.
 865 2013-06-25 15:32:27 taha has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 866 2013-06-25 15:32:38 <sipa> Mr_Cloud: not curl's documentation - JSON-RPC
 867 2013-06-25 15:32:46 <michagogo> warren: See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md
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 870 2013-06-25 15:33:04 <michagogo> warren: the "perform gitian builds" section
 871 2013-06-25 15:33:38 <michagogo> Once you build, use gsign to create files describing the build input and output along with signatures
 872 2013-06-25 15:33:56 <warren> michagogo: don't I have to be one of the signers in there?
 873 2013-06-25 15:33:59 <warren> I'm not
 874 2013-06-25 15:34:13 <michagogo> warren: That's why you fork the repo on github
 875 2013-06-25 15:34:27 <michagogo> Clone your fork, commit to it, push, PR
 876 2013-06-25 15:34:40 <warren> that goes to master?
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 878 2013-06-25 15:35:08 <michagogo> Assuming the PR gets merged, yes
 879 2013-06-25 15:35:17 <michagogo> (that's the only branch)
 880 2013-06-25 15:35:39 <warren> michagogo: I'll get involved with that in the next round ... for now I need to apparently fix this in the silly clone coin
 881 2013-06-25 15:35:40 <Mr_Cloud> What I mean sipa is that I'm not familiar with implementing Bitcoin-qt's API using curl. Which is why I'm here. Trying to learn.
 882 2013-06-25 15:39:37 <michagogo> Okay, going to gitian build now
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 890 2013-06-25 15:46:48 <gavinandresen> pushed 0.8.3 gitian sigs (linux build matches warren's)
 891 2013-06-25 15:47:07 <warren> fedora gitian =)
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 895 2013-06-25 15:48:10 Mad7Scientist has joined
 896 2013-06-25 15:48:41 <Mad7Scientist> <Mad7Scientist> Why is bitcoin-qt 0.8.2 downloading the blocks over the Internet
 897 2013-06-25 15:48:41 <Mad7Scientist> <Mad7Scientist> I already have most of the blocks from the 0.7 database
 898 2013-06-25 15:48:55 <MC1984> its not
 899 2013-06-25 15:49:00 <TheXev> Mad7Scientist: database conversion?
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 903 2013-06-25 15:49:20 <Mad7Scientist> It's rebuilding after a database corruption
 904 2013-06-25 15:49:25 <Mad7Scientist> started at 233 weeks behind
 905 2013-06-25 15:49:35 <Mad7Scientist> It asked if I want to reindex
 906 2013-06-25 15:49:37 <Mad7Scientist> and I said yes
 907 2013-06-25 15:49:46 <TheXev> yeah, i had that happen.. it basically deleted the pre-0.8 database (it was a good thing, in the long run)
 908 2013-06-25 15:49:47 <sipa> then it should reuse the blocks you have on disk
 909 2013-06-25 15:49:51 <Mad7Scientist> It's downloading 500KB/sec
 910 2013-06-25 15:50:04 <sipa> well perhaps there's a corruption in the actual blocks file
 911 2013-06-25 15:50:05 <TheXev> well, i nuked my block chain, i kept having random db problems.
 912 2013-06-25 15:50:12 <Mad7Scientist> but the pre 0.8 database shouldn't be corrupted since it was not being used
 913 2013-06-25 15:50:31 <Mad7Scientist> during the power failure
 914 2013-06-25 15:50:46 <sipa> if it's reindexing, the old 0.8 database isn't being used
 915 2013-06-25 15:50:54 <sipa> it's just rebuilding it from the blocks on disk
 916 2013-06-25 15:51:01 <Mad7Scientist> old 0.7 you mean
 917 2013-06-25 15:51:13 <sipa> both
 918 2013-06-25 15:51:27 <sipa> and if a block on disk is corrupted, it loses a sync and will download from network after that point
 919 2013-06-25 15:51:31 <Mad7Scientist> I want to clear out the 0.8 database and rebuild from 0.7 and then download what is remaining
 920 2013-06-25 15:51:41 <Mad7Scientist> I think it ignored the 0.7 database
 921 2013-06-25 15:52:04 <TheXev> imo, its best to nuke the old DBs and clean slate.  I increased my maxconnections to 30 in bitcoin.conf and got resynced from scratch rather quickly.  I haven't had any reindexing issues since I clean slated under 0.8+
 922 2013-06-25 15:52:04 <sipa> do you have ~/.bitcoin/blk*.dat files?
 923 2013-06-25 15:52:08 <Mad7Scientist> yes
 924 2013-06-25 15:52:15 <Mad7Scientist> they are 2GB each
 925 2013-06-25 15:52:26 <sipa> do you also have ~/.bitcoin/blocks/blk*.dat ?
 926 2013-06-25 15:52:48 <TD> incidentally, my bitcoin corrupted its leveldb last night
 927 2013-06-25 15:52:54 <TD> on my laptop .... it didn't come back after an OS update
 928 2013-06-25 15:52:56 <TD> :(
 929 2013-06-25 15:53:04 <TD> i couldn't see any evidence of a sudden shutdown though
 930 2013-06-25 15:53:17 <TheXev> yeah, i just had all kinds of issues with a mixed database.
 931 2013-06-25 15:53:18 <TD> and the hardware is pretty new
 932 2013-06-25 15:53:24 <Mad7Scientist> yes blk*.dat and rev*.dat
 933 2013-06-25 15:53:36 <TheXev> but since i did a clean 0.8 database, its all been good and stable.
 934 2013-06-25 15:54:24 <Mad7Scientist> I shut down bitcoin-qt
 935 2013-06-25 15:54:29 <Mad7Scientist> how do I tell it to rebuild from 0.7?
 936 2013-06-25 15:54:49 <Mad7Scientist> delete the files?
 937 2013-06-25 15:54:50 <TheXev> i went into my appdata folder and cleaned house, and backed up the wallet.dat
 938 2013-06-25 15:55:35 <TheXev> and then just reinitialized my wallet with an empty appdata folder (windows)
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 940 2013-06-25 15:56:07 <sipa> TD: :(
 941 2013-06-25 15:56:11 <sipa> TD: bah
 942 2013-06-25 15:56:26 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: 0.8 always uses blocks/blk*, 0.7 always uses blk*
 943 2013-06-25 15:56:37 <Mad7Scientist> can I delete ~/.bitcoin/blocks/
 944 2013-06-25 15:56:45 <TD> sipa: yeah. i have no clue what can be causing that. but what i might try is setting up a cron job to tell it to re-verify recent data every day
 945 2013-06-25 15:56:48 <sipa> Mad7Scientist: if you run 0.8, and no blocks/ exists, it will hardlink the 0.7 files into it, and rebuild from those
 946 2013-06-25 15:57:00 <Mad7Scientist> ok
 947 2013-06-25 15:57:02 <TD> as i suspect there may have been an issue introduced at some random point in the past, and the corruption only gets detected when i restart bitcoin-qt (which is rare)
 948 2013-06-25 15:57:08 <TD> i also wonder if laptop sleeping is able to affect it
 949 2013-06-25 15:57:15 <Mad7Scientist> now it found a corrupted 0.8 and then started downloading what was missing from the Internet
 950 2013-06-25 15:57:25 <Mad7Scientist> instead of from 0.7
 951 2013-06-25 15:57:47 <Mad7Scientist> what would deleting blocks/index do?
 952 2013-06-25 15:58:03 <Mad7Scientist> I guess that would ruin it
 953 2013-06-25 15:58:23 <Mad7Scientist> there are so many files in blocks/ and only the most recent one must be corrupted
 954 2013-06-25 15:58:32 <Mad7Scientist> why would the older ones be corrupted?
 955 2013-06-25 15:59:39 <Mad7Scientist>  19M Jun 25 10:28 rev00000.dat
 956 2013-06-25 15:59:48 <Mad7Scientist> Jun 22 11:00 rev00016.dat
 957 2013-06-25 15:59:52 <TheXev> I don't know what was causing the db issues I had.  I just clean slated and its been good ever since.  It was much simpler then trying save any of my pre-existing data. :/
 958 2013-06-25 16:00:02 <Mad7Scientist> the block 0000 has newer modification time than the last block
 959 2013-06-25 16:00:17 <Mad7Scientist> it must be hopeless then
 960 2013-06-25 16:00:21 <Mad7Scientist> if it isn't writing them in order
 961 2013-06-25 16:00:35 michagogo has quit (Quit: brb)
 962 2013-06-25 16:00:49 <Mad7Scientist> deleting .bitcoin/blocks
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 964 2013-06-25 16:03:01 <Mad7Scientist> now it is updating very fast
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 969 2013-06-25 16:06:11 <gavinandresen> TD: OSX laptop?  Are you running FileVault?
 970 2013-06-25 16:06:36 <TD> no. i don't believe so.
 971 2013-06-25 16:06:47 <TD> it's a regular macbook pro with minimal changes, ssd
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 976 2013-06-25 16:08:17 <gavinandresen> TD: ok, that matches other reports of "random leveldb corruption on OSX" then
 977 2013-06-25 16:08:39 <TD> i strongly suspect there's something weird going on with laptop sleeps. i keep bitcoin-qt running all the time.
 978 2013-06-25 16:08:55 <TD> and OS X 10.8+ does weird things where it wakes up in a kind of partial-wake mode at night to do syncing and things
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 988 2013-06-25 16:10:18 <gavinandresen> I haven't had any problems on my 10.8 desktop, but it never sleeps (not that one data point means much)
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1000 2013-06-25 16:16:44 <michagogo> Okay, gitian's running
1001 2013-06-25 16:17:03 <michagogo> "Running build script (log in var/build.log)" for linux i386 atm
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1007 2013-06-25 16:21:52 <michagogo> Building now for linux x64
1008 2013-06-25 16:22:05 <michagogo> s/x/amd/
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1032 2013-06-25 16:37:43 <imd23> hey
1033 2013-06-25 16:37:45 <imd23> guys
1034 2013-06-25 16:38:00 <imd23> has anyone have idea about the performance of bitcoind as a server for a service?
1035 2013-06-25 16:38:16 <imd23> I need to implement bit coin a startup
1036 2013-06-25 16:38:38 <sipa> that will really depend on what kind of service
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1039 2013-06-25 16:39:21 <imd23> mmm… not a exchange but related to the amount of transactions
1040 2013-06-25 16:39:32 <imd23> I mean, I know I will need more than 1 server, of course,
1041 2013-06-25 16:39:45 <helo> imd23: i think for most business-scale uses, bitcoind is not enough
1042 2013-06-25 16:39:55 <imd23> ok.
1043 2013-06-25 16:40:01 <imd23> any alternative?
1044 2013-06-25 16:40:11 <gmaxwell> helo: please don't give irresponsible answers.
1045 2013-06-25 16:40:27 <gmaxwell> imd23 has not even remotely suggested the sort of thing he's actually trying to do.
1046 2013-06-25 16:40:39 <helo> this is true.
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1055 2013-06-25 16:40:48 <handle> i think for most james bond-scale uses, the world is not enough
1056 2013-06-25 16:40:53 <imd23> I mean, kind of a exchange, is a new way of transferring btc…
1057 2013-06-25 16:41:07 <helo> i was going to suggest that bitcoind should be involved as a signaling mechanism to the rest of his infrastructure
1058 2013-06-25 16:41:11 <imd23> it's new concept, so if it works and works well, everyone could use it.
1059 2013-06-25 16:41:25 <helo> but relying on bitcoind to handle accounts and balances, etc., is usually not[D the way to go.
1060 2013-06-25 16:41:26 <imd23> the critical part is transactions and verifications.
1061 2013-06-25 16:41:52 <imd23> helo: how many transactions are you talking about 10 or 1000?
1062 2013-06-25 16:42:01 sydna_ has joined
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1064 2013-06-25 16:42:23 <imd23> I mean… if the product works I will rent 50 servers, obviously,  but to start small I will be using a few.
1065 2013-06-25 16:42:49 <gmaxwell> It's still not clear what imd23 wants bitcoind to do.
1066 2013-06-25 16:42:51 <imd23> I just need to know if it's not prepared to any kind of medium load, or ir can be kind of tolerant
1067 2013-06-25 16:42:52 <helo> bitcoind can handle 10 transactions just fine. i still don't think that most people would want to use it to generate financial statements
1068 2013-06-25 16:43:01 <helo> (or 1000)
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1070 2013-06-25 16:43:19 <imd23> bitocoind as a roc server for the startup-app logic.
1071 2013-06-25 16:43:20 <gmaxwell> helo: he hasn't made any suggestion that he's planning on using bitcoind as a wallet.
1072 2013-06-25 16:43:27 charybdi1 has joined
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1076 2013-06-25 16:43:38 <helo> imd23: it all depends on what exactly you're doing. everyone's requirements are different.
1077 2013-06-25 16:43:42 <imd23> it will serve as the code network connector.
1078 2013-06-25 16:43:45 xeroc_ has joined
1079 2013-06-25 16:43:45 <imd23> no, the wallet will be offline
1080 2013-06-25 16:43:58 <helo> imd23: so how will you know your balances?
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1084 2013-06-25 16:44:19 <imd23> the app will pass the private key each time it's needed, and will be cached
1085 2013-06-25 16:44:47 <helo> imd23: from the topic, "Tell us what you're trying to do, not how you think you need to do it."
1086 2013-06-25 16:44:50 tgs3_ has joined
1087 2013-06-25 16:44:54 <sipa> how will you detect incoming payments?
1088 2013-06-25 16:45:13 <imd23> but this will be managed by our backend, not the bitcoind itself. I need it to be a bit coin network gateway.
1089 2013-06-25 16:45:16 <michagogo> Erm, can someone help me out with something? https://github.com/Michagogo/gitian.sigs/commits/master
1090 2013-06-25 16:45:16 <michagogo> Where did commits a84fc... and cd0e8... come from?
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1093 2013-06-25 16:45:36 <imd23> I can't talk a lot, so far, but if we think of MtGox for my problem it's the same
1094 2013-06-25 16:45:39 <imd23> kinda
1095 2013-06-25 16:45:49 guest892835 has joined
1096 2013-06-25 16:46:15 <imd23> imagine, mtgox has to generate keys,  receive btc, and withdraw..
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1099 2013-06-25 16:46:40 <imd23> that 3 key things, can I use bitcoind as my core bitcoint network talker?
1100 2013-06-25 16:46:44 <imd23> (gateway)
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1108 2013-06-25 16:47:39 <sipa> imd23: to talk to the network sure, but you will either use bitcoind' wallet implementation or your own
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1128 2013-06-25 16:48:12 <sipa> imd23: you can't ask bitcoind to tell you when a transaction has happened, unless you manage your wallet by bitcoind
1129 2013-06-25 16:48:25 xxDarftxx has joined
1130 2013-06-25 16:48:25 <pigeons> i've been here long enough to be able to handle this one. "What are you trying to do?"
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1137 2013-06-25 16:50:12 <gmaxwell> pigeons: Sipa tried that already. :P
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1139 2013-06-25 16:50:27 <imd23> the store of the priv and pub keys will be handled by our app, not bitcoind
1140 2013-06-25 16:50:27 <imd23> Imagine , my idea needs in 1 minute to tell bitcoind to do 1000 transactions, with 1000 differents privs key and addreses, in and out.
1141 2013-06-25 16:50:27 <imd23> will it resist 1000 in 1 minute?
1142 2013-06-25 16:50:52 <imd23> I know this is so relative to a lot of things like the server cpu, , etc.. but in general.
1143 2013-06-25 16:50:54 <gmaxwell> Doesn't even make sense.
1144 2013-06-25 16:51:04 <gmaxwell> The Bitcoin network can't handle transaction volumes that high.
1145 2013-06-25 16:51:06 <imd23> haha, imagine an exchange, for my purposes is the same… :)
1146 2013-06-25 16:51:06 <imd23> imagine we need to create a new exchange.
1147 2013-06-25 16:51:17 <imd23> ok. how does mtgox do it?
1148 2013-06-25 16:51:22 <gmaxwell> imd23: have you ever actually used bitcoin?
1149 2013-06-25 16:51:28 <imd23> yeah
1150 2013-06-25 16:51:31 <gmaxwell> The bitcoin software does not implement an exchange.
1151 2013-06-25 16:51:32 taha has joined
1152 2013-06-25 16:51:34 <michagogo> Anyone?
1153 2013-06-25 16:51:40 <sipa> imd23: mtgox has their own bitcoin implementation, pretty much from scratch
1154 2013-06-25 16:51:48 <imd23> spia: thanks!
1155 2013-06-25 16:52:02 <michagogo> I want to PR my 0.8.3 sigs, but I don't know what those commits are
1156 2013-06-25 16:52:09 <gmaxwell> michagogo: they're merge commits created by git where you pulled.
1157 2013-06-25 16:52:19 <imd23> I mean, my product is not like an exchange, more like an scrow..
1158 2013-06-25 16:52:23 <imd23> *escrow
1159 2013-06-25 16:52:38 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Why do they exist?
1160 2013-06-25 16:52:40 hopey has joined
1161 2013-06-25 16:53:19 <imd23> it doesn't really matter what it is. I just need a server to transfer the btcs from one address to another, I don't get the difference between if the address is us or other person… at my question I see it is the same.
1162 2013-06-25 16:53:20 <gmaxwell> michagogo: your history diverged from the master repository you were pulling from, and so when you updated it git made those merge commits in order to make your repositories agree.
1163 2013-06-25 16:53:36 <michagogo> Er, how could it have diverged? o_O
1164 2013-06-25 16:53:38 <sipa> imd23: bitcoin transactions are _NOT_ from address to address
1165 2013-06-25 16:53:44 <imd23> p2p
1166 2013-06-25 16:53:58 <sipa> imd23: transaction manipulate coins, and you need the actual coins in order to send them
1167 2013-06-25 16:54:13 <imd23> yeah, I know.
1168 2013-06-25 16:54:17 agnostic98 has joined
1169 2013-06-25 16:54:22 <imd23> but they have a private key, doesn't it?
1170 2013-06-25 16:55:13 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Pretty sure all I've done is git pull && git fetch upstream && git merge upstream/master && git push
1171 2013-06-25 16:55:46 <gmaxwell> michagogo: presumably because you previously committed to your tree.
1172 2013-06-25 16:56:15 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1173 2013-06-25 16:56:16 <michagogo> AFAIK I haven't comitted anything that I didn't push and PR...
1174 2013-06-25 16:56:18 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1175 2013-06-25 16:56:21 <michagogo> +m
1176 2013-06-25 16:56:29 <gmaxwell> michagogo: e.g. pull, commit,  then upstream merges other stuff, then yours (or merges yours non-fast forward, or doesn't merge you at all) .. then latter you pull again and you end up with a merge.
1177 2013-06-25 16:56:45 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Is it okay to PR with those weird commits?
1178 2013-06-25 16:56:48 <sipa> imd23: just a private key is not enough to spend coins
1179 2013-06-25 16:56:50 <gmaxwell> michagogo: absolutely.
1180 2013-06-25 16:57:09 <sipa> imd23: you need to know the actual transactions (and their outputs) which credited the address corresponding to the key
1181 2013-06-25 16:57:11 <imd23> sipa: i don't want to bother you more, may be if you have a like that explains this better
1182 2013-06-25 16:57:23 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Done.
1183 2013-06-25 16:57:50 <imd23> sipa: you mean the whole chain of transactions?
1184 2013-06-25 16:57:57 <sipa> imd23: no, read what i said
1185 2013-06-25 16:58:02 <michagogo> .w gavinandresen
1186 2013-06-25 16:58:03 <michagogo> oops
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1188 2013-06-25 16:58:40 <gmaxwell> michagogo: Thanks!  In any case, basically you will end up with merges unless your history is exactly the same 1:1 so any difference in the commit ordering around your past pull requests will create those things. If it bothers you, you can always reset your repository to match exactly before adding a new commit.
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1190 2013-06-25 16:59:22 <imd23> sipa: ok, I am missing something. Let's say you have 1 btc and you want to send it to me. what information do you need to create the transaction? (behind the scenes)
1191 2013-06-25 16:59:41 <michagogo> gmaxwell: I don't really mind, it's more a matter of "will the bitcoin devs be upset that I added 3 extra commits to their repo"
1192 2013-06-25 16:59:55 <michagogo> Er, more like "will they let me add 3 extra commits to their repo"
1193 2013-06-25 16:59:56 <sipa> imd23: the txid and vout index which credited me
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1195 2013-06-25 17:00:16 <sipa> imd23: and the private key of the address it was sent to
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1197 2013-06-25 17:00:31 <gmaxwell> michagogo: github should have let you open a pull on just the commit.
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1199 2013-06-25 17:00:43 <imd23> sipa: ok, I am searching about txid and vout
1200 2013-06-25 17:00:46 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Hmm? How?
1201 2013-06-25 17:00:51 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1202 2013-06-25 17:01:05 <michagogo> I clicked the green button and that's what it gave me
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1205 2013-06-25 17:02:29 <sipa> imd23: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
1206 2013-06-25 17:02:31 <sipa> imd23: read that first
1207 2013-06-25 17:02:44 <sipa> imd23: it's not an answer to your question, but it may teach you something about the internals
1208 2013-06-25 17:02:48 <imd23> sipa: ok, you are very kind thanks
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1213 2013-06-25 17:07:43 <michagogo> gmaxwell: I think I fixed it
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1215 2013-06-25 17:09:23 <michagogo> I moved my sigs out of my local copy, deleted my local copy, cloned bitcoin's version, added bitcoin's version as upstream and deleted it as origin, added my fork as origin, moved my sigs back in and committed, then `git push --force`
1216 2013-06-25 17:11:56 <sipa> michagogo: next time, do a 'git pull' before adding your commits
1217 2013-06-25 17:12:02 <michagogo> sipa: I did
1218 2013-06-25 17:12:45 <michagogo> (well, I did a `git pull && git fetch upstream && git merge upstream/master && git push`)
1219 2013-06-25 17:13:09 <sipa> michagogo: _before_ adding commits
1220 2013-06-25 17:13:11 <sipa> not after
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1222 2013-06-25 17:13:18 <sipa> you do the push afterwards
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1224 2013-06-25 17:13:30 <michagogo> sipa: That was the first thing I did
1225 2013-06-25 17:13:33 <michagogo> Before I gitian-built
1226 2013-06-25 17:13:34 <sipa> ah, ok
1227 2013-06-25 17:13:45 <sipa> well then someone was very simultaneous with you
1228 2013-06-25 17:13:45 <michagogo> gavinandresen: When you see this, I've gitian-built 0.8.3 and our outputs do appear to match: https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/8
1229 2013-06-25 17:14:06 <michagogo> sipa: Hmm?
1230 2013-06-25 17:14:16 <michagogo> gavin's sigs were already in when I did that
1231 2013-06-25 17:14:34 <michagogo> Hmm, looks like I make up 50% of PRs on gitian.sigs
1232 2013-06-25 17:15:25 <sipa> yeah, most others push directly
1233 2013-06-25 17:15:31 <sipa> but don't feel bad abput that!
1234 2013-06-25 17:15:51 <michagogo> sipa: Lol, I know
1235 2013-06-25 17:15:57 <michagogo> :-P
1236 2013-06-25 17:17:00 handle is now known as ````
1237 2013-06-25 17:17:12 ```` is now known as `````
1238 2013-06-25 17:18:25 <Luke-Jr> my win32 matches gavin's
1239 2013-06-25 17:18:47 agnostic98 has joined
1240 2013-06-25 17:18:51 <michagogo> As does mine
1241 2013-06-25 17:19:56 <michagogo> Anyone want to double-check that I did everything corrently in https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/8 before I reboot to windows and put away my Ubuntu disk?
1242 2013-06-25 17:21:19 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1243 2013-06-25 17:21:56 <sipa> michagogo: looks good
1244 2013-06-25 17:22:02 <sipa> i haven't verified the match though
1245 2013-06-25 17:22:28 Semen_Dickman has joined
1246 2013-06-25 17:22:48 Heimdall has joined
1247 2013-06-25 17:23:09 Semen_Dickman has left ()
1248 2013-06-25 17:23:43 <Luke-Jr> what is the status of how public the 0.8.3 fix is?
1249 2013-06-25 17:24:31 <sipa> it was discussed here already, afaik
1250 2013-06-25 17:24:41 <sipa> well, maybe not that explicitly
1251 2013-06-25 17:24:42 ````` is now known as handle
1252 2013-06-25 17:25:01 <gmaxwell> We're not attempting to shelter it, though walking people through exploiting it might be unwise.
1253 2013-06-25 17:25:07 handle is now known as `handle
1254 2013-06-25 17:25:32 `handle is now known as handle
1255 2013-06-25 17:25:40 <gmaxwell> I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been more problems due to it yet.
1256 2013-06-25 17:25:41 <Luke-Jr> ok; somehow someone PM'd me with the impression that only low memory nodes are at risk; I guess I can clarify that at least
1257 2013-06-25 17:26:15 <gmaxwell> Ah. yes, no. all nodes are at risk.
1258 2013-06-25 17:26:38 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: any idea where they got that idea?
1259 2013-06-25 17:26:51 <handle> wouldn't that only affect people if someone threw a bunch of money at it?
1260 2013-06-25 17:27:03 <handle> and only did so before a block showed up, or am I misunderstanding this
1261 2013-06-25 17:27:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'll ask.
1262 2013-06-25 17:27:26 <Luke-Jr> does anyone know the exact math to figure out the RAM/bandwidth relationship?
1263 2013-06-25 17:27:56 <gmaxwell> handle: no. I have no clue what you're talking about but not this.
1264 2013-06-25 17:28:18 <handle> ah, disregard that then
1265 2013-06-25 17:28:36 triciam has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1266 2013-06-25 17:28:36 <handle> maybe I misunderstand what the problem is
1267 2013-06-25 17:28:40 <handle> s/maybe/i definitely/
1268 2013-06-25 17:29:14 <Ferroh> "i definitely I misunderstand" then?
1269 2013-06-25 17:29:15 <Ferroh> :)
1270 2013-06-25 17:29:19 <michagogo> What exactly is the .3 fix?
1271 2013-06-25 17:29:43 <thrasher`> truncates malicious tx's
1272 2013-06-25 17:29:45 <handle> oops, lol Ferroh
1273 2013-06-25 17:30:34 <thrasher`> and by malicious I mean oversized ones
1274 2013-06-25 17:31:06 <michagogo> sipa: I just double-checked and both bitcoin-build.assert files have identical out_manifests
1275 2013-06-25 17:31:10 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c40a5aaaf484855a4350fd702e8e72fd21a68155
1276 2013-06-25 17:31:50 <gmaxwell> hah. Okay. Well. So long as you define low to mean finite.
1277 2013-06-25 17:32:03 <michagogo> What was the bug?
1278 2013-06-25 17:32:31 TheXev has left ("Leaving")
1279 2013-06-25 17:32:44 <thrasher`> no check on TX string length I assume?
1280 2013-06-25 17:32:45 <gmaxwell> michagogo: transactions can have extra data stuck onto the end of them. This size is not what the normal fee rules check against, and the transactions get stored in memory.
1281 2013-06-25 17:33:21 dan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1282 2013-06-25 17:33:23 <jgarzik> back
1283 2013-06-25 17:33:28 <jgarzik> how goes the 0.8.3 builds?
1284 2013-06-25 17:33:35 <michagogo> Transactions or transaction messages?
1285 2013-06-25 17:33:38 <gmaxwell> So someone can exhaust nodes memory by feeding them bloated transactions.  There are some complications that make it a little harder to exploit than it sounds.
1286 2013-06-25 17:33:40 <michagogo> jgarzik: I seem to match gavin
1287 2013-06-25 17:33:47 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1288 2013-06-25 17:34:14 <michagogo> jgarzik: I've PR'd: https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/8
1289 2013-06-25 17:34:23 <gmaxwell> michagogo: The messages, not the transactions themselves really. But the data gets relayed.
1290 2013-06-25 17:34:29 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, especially now with a few patched nodes deployed
1291 2013-06-25 17:34:31 <michagogo> Ah, I see.
1292 2013-06-25 17:35:40 andyh2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1293 2013-06-25 17:35:45 justusranvier_ is now known as justusranvier
1294 2013-06-25 17:35:47 da2ce7_d has joined
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1296 2013-06-25 17:36:20 <Luke-Jr> 0.8.3 sigs pushed
1297 2013-06-25 17:37:13 xxDarftxx has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1298 2013-06-25 17:37:20 evan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1299 2013-06-25 17:37:41 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1300 2013-06-25 17:38:15 <Luke-Jr> that makes 3
1301 2013-06-25 17:38:22 paracyst has quit ()
1302 2013-06-25 17:38:29 upb has quit (Changing host)
1303 2013-06-25 17:38:30 upb has joined
1304 2013-06-25 17:38:34 <upb> حزب
1305 2013-06-25 17:38:35 brson has joined
1306 2013-06-25 17:40:19 <Scrat> upb: that's debatable
1307 2013-06-25 17:40:28 zylche__ has joined
1308 2013-06-25 17:40:54 dan_ has joined
1309 2013-06-25 17:40:54 tonikt2 has joined
1310 2013-06-25 17:41:02 MC1984_ has joined
1311 2013-06-25 17:41:05 <upb> no it's not!
1312 2013-06-25 17:41:11 dan_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1313 2013-06-25 17:41:24 idstam-se has joined
1314 2013-06-25 17:41:31 <handle> Ø­
1315 2013-06-25 17:41:33 jiffe2 has joined
1316 2013-06-25 17:41:46 <handle> حبح
1317 2013-06-25 17:41:48 dan_ has joined
1318 2013-06-25 17:42:02 <handle> i have no idea what i am saying
1319 2013-06-25 17:42:04 * Luke-Jr wonders if this right-to-left stuff is on-topic
1320 2013-06-25 17:42:07 digitalmagus2 has joined
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1322 2013-06-25 17:42:07 digitalmagus2 has joined
1323 2013-06-25 17:42:20 <handle> that's racist :(
1324 2013-06-25 17:42:35 Skav has joined
1325 2013-06-25 17:42:41 <handle> also I just realized this is bitcoin-dev
1326 2013-06-25 17:42:41 <handle> my bad
1327 2013-06-25 17:42:50 <Luke-Jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/screenshots/snapshot104.png
1328 2013-06-25 17:43:00 * Luke-Jr kicks 404
1329 2013-06-25 17:43:07 cuqa__ has joined
1330 2013-06-25 17:43:33 <upb> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/screenshots/snapshot103.png <- are those the lightbearing rays of licufer?:P
1331 2013-06-25 17:43:55 <Luke-Jr> 404 fixed
1332 2013-06-25 17:43:57 Diapolis has joined
1333 2013-06-25 17:44:30 phma has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1334 2013-06-25 17:44:32 <handle> heh, interesting
1335 2013-06-25 17:44:35 <upb> what are those blue lines?
1336 2013-06-25 17:44:42 wereHams1er has joined
1337 2013-06-25 17:44:54 <Luke-Jr> upb: markers
1338 2013-06-25 17:45:04 <Luke-Jr> "where I've read up to"
1339 2013-06-25 17:45:07 <upb> and mine was hzb not just one letter so the client doesnt display it correctly
1340 2013-06-25 17:45:13 CodesInChaos has joined
1341 2013-06-25 17:45:13 <upb> ah
1342 2013-06-25 17:45:14 Guest38499 is now known as gaantr2
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1383 2013-06-25 18:04:54 <gavinandresen> All righty, binaries uploaded to https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.3/
1384 2013-06-25 18:04:59 melvster_ has joined
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1387 2013-06-25 18:07:15 <imd23> hi people, who is kind enough to give me the best link explanation about how transactions works?
1388 2013-06-25 18:07:17 <imd23> thanks
1389 2013-06-25 18:07:55 patcon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1390 2013-06-25 18:08:09 MobPhone has quit (Client Quit)
1391 2013-06-25 18:08:12 <Luke-Jr> imd23: bitcoin.pdf
1392 2013-06-25 18:08:31 <imd23> Luke-Js: didn't work :p
1393 2013-06-25 18:08:42 <imd23> Luke-Jr: didn't work :p
1394 2013-06-25 18:08:42 <Luke-Jr> imd23: it's linked off bitcoin.org
1395 2013-06-25 18:09:00 <imd23> i know, I read it already, I mean, I need a little bit lighter :)
1396 2013-06-25 18:09:18 <imd23> but it has been a time I don't read it so I will give it a try again
1397 2013-06-25 18:09:30 <imd23> any other link apart of the wiki?
1398 2013-06-25 18:09:38 <imd23> a video, a conf talk, a blog post?
1399 2013-06-25 18:10:41 <helo> imd23: #bitcoin
1400 2013-06-25 18:11:23 <imd23> ok.
1401 2013-06-25 18:11:25 blokey has left ()
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1403 2013-06-25 18:12:07 <gavinandresen> imd23: try  http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-decentralized-currency/
1404 2013-06-25 18:12:20 <imd23> thanks
1405 2013-06-25 18:14:05 twmz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1406 2013-06-25 18:14:30 <helo> imd23: what i meant was "i'll be happy to answer any questions you have about how bitcoin transactions work in #bitcoin". not just trying to get you to go away ;)
1407 2013-06-25 18:15:01 <imd23> helo: oh ok, :) no prob
1408 2013-06-25 18:17:58 Guest73768 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1410 2013-06-25 18:18:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, awesome (0.8.3)
1411 2013-06-25 18:19:06 easy-iPad has joined
1412 2013-06-25 18:20:36 <bloke> is 0.8.3 officially the stable release yet?
1413 2013-06-25 18:21:15 <jgarzik> bloke, yes, as of a few minutes ago :)  gavinandresen hasn't even gotten to the announce yet ;p
1414 2013-06-25 18:21:52 <bloke> all good :)
1415 2013-06-25 18:23:31 NimeshNeema has joined
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1418 2013-06-25 18:26:07 bnc_do_chorao_ has joined
1419 2013-06-25 18:26:12 <gavinandresen> … sent email to the bitcoin-development mailing list...
1420 2013-06-25 18:26:38 dansmith_btc has joined
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1423 2013-06-25 18:27:30 <petertodd> gmaxwell: only nodes with less memory than incoming-bandwidth * 15 minutes are at risk - mostly that's VPS's and similar in practice
1424 2013-06-25 18:29:32 <gavinandresen> … thread on bitcointalk … https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242848
1425 2013-06-25 18:31:05 nomailing has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1426 2013-06-25 18:33:07 <saivann> gavinandresen : Will update bitcoin.org in the next minutes
1427 2013-06-25 18:33:31 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1428 2013-06-25 18:33:34 santoscork has joined
1429 2013-06-25 18:34:55 <gavinandresen> saivann: thanks!
1430 2013-06-25 18:35:02 <gavinandresen> I updated links on the wiki homepage
1431 2013-06-25 18:35:26 nym has joined
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1445 2013-06-25 18:40:27 <jgarzik> reddit link: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1h1vch/bitcoinqt_bitcoind_version_083_released/
1446 2013-06-25 18:41:04 paracyst has joined
1447 2013-06-25 18:41:11 <petertodd> jgarzik: should have mentioned 0.8.3 fix's a DoS vulnerability...
1448 2013-06-25 18:41:20 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
1449 2013-06-25 18:41:20 <gmaxwell> it's in the release notes.
1450 2013-06-25 18:41:28 <petertodd> I mean in the reddit title
1451 2013-06-25 18:42:38 <petertodd> There is a "Bitcoin network recovering from DDos attack" story, but it's not clear the attack was enabled by a vulnerability that 0.8.3 fixes
1452 2013-06-25 18:43:03 cj_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1453 2013-06-25 18:43:18 <midnightmagic> dammit. why is it that everything happens in the tiny window of time that I'm temporarily afk?!
1454 2013-06-25 18:44:24 rdymac has joined
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1460 2013-06-25 18:44:27 <gavinandresen> midnightmagic: I had a NSA brain transplant, so I know when you're AFK.
1461 2013-06-25 18:44:30 <petertodd> midnightmagic: heh, meanwhile I wound up in hospital over the weekend and didn't miss anything more than you
1462 2013-06-25 18:44:45 rdymac has quit (Client Quit)
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1467 2013-06-25 18:45:52 <gmaxwell> /msg gavinandresen sounds like those polonium pellets are working
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1471 2013-06-25 18:46:57 <petertodd> gmaxwell: huh, and I thought it was the chicken
1472 2013-06-25 18:47:19 dansmith_btc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1473 2013-06-25 18:47:23 <gmaxwell> Oh. Right. The chicken.
1474 2013-06-25 18:47:23 patcon has joined
1475 2013-06-25 18:47:30 <michagogo> What's the purpose of the /contrib/gitian-downloader folder in the source tree?
1476 2013-06-25 18:47:49 dansmith_btc has joined
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1479 2013-06-25 18:48:23 <midnightmagic> petertodd: yikes! hope you're feeling better
1480 2013-06-25 18:48:31 <midnightmagic> lol
1481 2013-06-25 18:49:19 Darft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1482 2013-06-25 18:49:31 <michagogo> Also: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/README.txt should really be updated
1483 2013-06-25 18:49:40 easy-iPad has quit (Quit: Outta here?)
1484 2013-06-25 18:50:42 <TheLordOfTime> 0.8.3 out?
1485 2013-06-25 18:50:43 <petertodd> midnightmagic: thanks, I'll be fine in another day or three
1486 2013-06-25 18:50:50 <midnightmagic> that's good.
1487 2013-06-25 18:50:53 <michagogo> thelamest: Yeah
1488 2013-06-25 18:50:56 <michagogo> TheLordOfTime: Yeah
1489 2013-06-25 18:50:59 <michagogo> thelamest: Sorry.
1490 2013-06-25 18:51:04 <TheLordOfTime> has anyone told BlueMatt yet?
1491 2013-06-25 18:51:12 <petertodd> midnightmagic: what really sucked was my girlfriend broke her ankle badly at the exact same time, she won't be right for weeks :(
1492 2013-06-25 18:51:30 <michagogo> Wow, 0.8.3 was pushed out very quickly
1493 2013-06-25 18:52:00 freewil has joined
1494 2013-06-25 18:52:21 <midnightmagic> ah, foot injury. those can be really bad.
1495 2013-06-25 18:52:56 <michagogo> About 3-3.5 hours from tag to release
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1514 2013-06-25 19:10:07 <jgarzik> SomeoneWeird, can you (or anyone else with ops) bump version in /title?
1515 2013-06-25 19:11:02 <michagogo> jgarzik: You can...
1516 2013-06-25 19:11:22 <jgarzik> michagogo, no, my IRC client prevents me from doing so, hence the question :)
1517 2013-06-25 19:11:31 <michagogo> /raw topic #bitcoin-dev :Register to talk | http://bitcoin.org/ https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ | Latest version: 0.8.3 | #bitcoin-dev: Development of the Bitcoin Protocol/clients | Other support/discussion: #bitcoin | Dont ask to ask, just ask | Tell us what you're trying to do, not how you think you need to do it. | This channel is logged: http://bitcoinstats.com/ | There is no from address
1518 2013-06-25 19:11:32 <michagogo> | No LTC support
1519 2013-06-25 19:11:35 <michagogo> It's that simple
1520 2013-06-25 19:11:40 <michagogo> /raw, or /quote maybe
1521 2013-06-25 19:11:51 xire has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1522 2013-06-25 19:12:12 <michagogo> jgarzik: Or does that also fail?
1523 2013-06-25 19:13:29 <michagogo> See?
1524 2013-06-25 19:13:39 <michagogo> Knowledge of the protocol can be very helpful.
1525 2013-06-25 19:13:51 <jgarzik> michagogo, /raw worked? but only after you pasted the topic.  the client doesn't even let me highlight it for copying/pasting.
1526 2013-06-25 19:14:01 <jgarzik> xchat on osx sucks more than most ;p
1527 2013-06-25 19:14:12 <handle> wait what
1528 2013-06-25 19:14:20 <michagogo> [21:44:24] <michagogo> jgarzik: Or does that also fail?
1529 2013-06-25 19:14:20 <michagogo> [21:45:38] * jgarzik changes topic to 'Register to talk | htt...0.8.3.....support'
1530 2013-06-25 19:14:20 <handle> why is LTC mentioned in the topic at all o.O
1531 2013-06-25 19:14:31 <michagogo> handle: Because people were coming in here asking for help
1532 2013-06-25 19:14:39 <TheLordOfTime> heh
1533 2013-06-25 19:14:41 <jgarzik> michagogo, did I screw it up?
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1535 2013-06-25 19:14:52 <michagogo> jgarzik: Nope
1536 2013-06-25 19:14:58 <TheLordOfTime> jgarzik:  mac osx sucks more than most other OSes.
1537 2013-06-25 19:15:04 * TheLordOfTime is biased :P
1538 2013-06-25 19:15:05 <handle> michagogo: ah
1539 2013-06-25 19:15:19 <handle> but not mac os 9!
1540 2013-06-25 19:15:21 <michagogo> I just cut out some stuff and replaced with dots to reduce spam, jgarzik
1541 2013-06-25 19:15:24 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: it was preannounced to pools, and probably DOES affect businesses…
1542 2013-06-25 19:15:39 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: even if you have a lot of memory, you're still vulnerable if you have a fat pipe
1543 2013-06-25 19:16:03 <petertodd> People with fat pipes tend to have the least memory...
1544 2013-06-25 19:16:19 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: right though it's not a _terrible_ impact on a case by case basis.
1545 2013-06-25 19:16:26 <Luke-Jr> well, Eligius has plenty of memory.. but gigabit lets them fill quite a bit
1546 2013-06-25 19:16:30 <jgarzik> c.f. herd immunity
1547 2013-06-25 19:16:31 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: ok. I didn't see any of the pre-announcements.
1548 2013-06-25 19:16:45 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: jgarzik sent one a few days ago
1549 2013-06-25 19:16:49 <michagogo> What's the purpose of the /contrib/gitian-downloader folder in the source tree?
1550 2013-06-25 19:16:57 <jgarzik> once sufficient manual patches occurred, the impact would not be significant anymore
1551 2013-06-25 19:17:40 <petertodd> Part of good Bitcoin security practice for a business needs to be keeping your nodes secret, which means the herd immunity protects you, and it appears that a *really* small % of nodes if sufficient to achieve heard immunity.
1552 2013-06-25 19:17:47 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: well it switches from a network wide highly scalable DOS to a targeted one. Targeted DOS are not very exciting.
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1554 2013-06-25 19:17:56 <gmaxwell> (An attacker can saturate your pipe no matter what you do)
1555 2013-06-25 19:17:59 <jgarzik> indeed
1556 2013-06-25 19:18:28 <jgarzik> heh, heard immunity
1557 2013-06-25 19:18:36 <jgarzik> amusingly apt
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1560 2013-06-25 19:18:57 <gmaxwell> Is that immunity created by rumoring or from rumors? :P
1561 2013-06-25 19:19:01 <petertodd> lol
1562 2013-06-25 19:19:30 <petertodd> gmaxwell: more gossip in general
1563 2013-06-25 19:19:37 <petertodd> gmaxwell: malicious gossip
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1565 2013-06-25 19:20:10 <gmaxwell> "Shaggy dog transaction"
1566 2013-06-25 19:20:14 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: keeping nodes secret is not quite viable for miners
1567 2013-06-25 19:20:15 <gavinandresen> michagogo: gitian-downloader is a secure, automatic update system that we don't use (yet).  Poke BlueMatt, he should write a README for that folder.
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1569 2013-06-25 19:20:46 <michagogo> ;;later tell BlueMatt gavinandresen says to poke you to write a README for /contrib/gitian-downloader
1570 2013-06-25 19:20:46 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1572 2013-06-25 19:21:04 * petertodd needs to create something called the "Teen Girl Highschool Social Scene Protocol"
1573 2013-06-25 19:21:14 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: why?
1574 2013-06-25 19:21:31 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: they need to advertise their relay nodes at least
1575 2013-06-25 19:21:34 <gmaxwell> petertodd: sounds vulnerable to partitioning.
1576 2013-06-25 19:21:47 <michagogo> gavinandresen: Is the 3 gitian-signature requirement for a release just "any 3 sigs"?
1577 2013-06-25 19:22:21 <petertodd> gmaxwell: indeed, yet some types of priority gossip messages bypass the partitions... a highly scalable protocol
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1579 2013-06-25 19:22:36 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: why?
1580 2013-06-25 19:22:39 <jgarzik> test/util_tests.cpp(307): error in "util_seed_insecure_rand": check count<=10000/mod+err failed
1581 2013-06-25 19:22:39 <jgarzik> *** 1 failure detected in test suite "Bitcoin Test Suite"
1582 2013-06-25 19:22:42 <jgarzik> hrm
1583 2013-06-25 19:22:47 <jgarzik> non-repeatable test_bitcoin error
1584 2013-06-25 19:22:49 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: oh, for stats?
1585 2013-06-25 19:22:51 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: to receive transactions and flood blocks
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1587 2013-06-25 19:23:41 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: Well, for you you need to because you do non-std tx's. But in general they don't, and doing pool stats by originating node is silly.
1588 2013-06-25 19:24:31 <petertodd> gmaxwell: shit, actually that's just a gossip network where fraud messages are propagated too all cliques... someone will make one of those one day
1589 2013-06-25 19:24:33 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: ugh I'll go fix. Sorry about that.
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1605 2013-06-25 19:45:18 <bloke> When a miner/pool solves a block, apparently they can put some "extra text" in that solved block. Where exactly does this text live, and is there a way to view it (using bitcoind, for example)?
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1610 2013-06-25 19:48:08 <Luke-Jr> bloke: scriptSig may contain up to 95 bytes of arbitrary data; used to increase entropy, political messages, etc
1611 2013-06-25 19:48:18 <Luke-Jr> bloke: in the generation transaction
1612 2013-06-25 19:48:46 <bloke> thanks Luke-Jr
1613 2013-06-25 19:49:14 <Luke-Jr> note the scriptSig length may itself be up to 100 bytes, but the first 5 are fixed (block height)
1614 2013-06-25 19:49:19 <bloke> Right
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1659 2013-06-25 20:26:27 <michagogo> bloke: Also custom nonces
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1679 2013-06-25 20:47:23 <weex> i'm getting this error trying to run bitcoind 0.8.3 on an ubuntu x64 computer
1680 2013-06-25 20:47:28 <weex> bitcoind: malloc.c:3096: sYSMALLOc: Assertion....
1681 2013-06-25 20:47:48 <weex> i want to build with more debug info and have gitian setup
1682 2013-06-25 20:48:03 <weex> how do i turn on that building mode that will show more info on the crash in gdb?
1683 2013-06-25 20:48:30 <weex> assuming i change something in gitian.yml
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1697 2013-06-25 21:00:55 <koshii> Hey all. What's the current size of the testnet blockchain?
1698 2013-06-25 21:00:59 <koshii> in MBs
1699 2013-06-25 21:01:35 <michagogo> <200
1700 2013-06-25 21:01:41 <koshii> Great
1701 2013-06-25 21:01:48 <bloke> yeh bout 180mb
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1703 2013-06-25 21:03:35 <lianj> 119M    testnet3_bootstrap_80800.dat
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1736 2013-06-25 21:35:00 <helo> all of this will be much happier when trezor is commonplace
1737 2013-06-25 21:35:08 <helo> doh, wrong chan ;)
1738 2013-06-25 21:37:03 <TheLordOfTime> lol?\
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1773 2013-06-25 22:19:18 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: why was 0.8.3 released?
1774 2013-06-25 22:19:30 <BlueMatt> we dont even have 3 sigs on it
1775 2013-06-25 22:19:45 <BlueMatt> s/3 sigs/3 sigs in the list of gitian sigs/
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1777 2013-06-25 22:20:37 <gavinandresen> is the rule 3 sigs-in-the-list-of-gitian sigs? I thought it was just three in general.
1778 2013-06-25 22:21:29 <gmaxwell> What we got is enough to reduce my concern of 'virused binaries 'cause gavin got rooted' at least.
1779 2013-06-25 22:22:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: no :(
1780 2013-06-25 22:22:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well, we briefly discussed actually following the rules that we set after 0.8.1
1781 2013-06-25 22:22:34 <BlueMatt> (and did for 0.8.2)
1782 2013-06-25 22:22:42 <BlueMatt> (that were set at like 0.4)
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1788 2013-06-25 22:24:06 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.  additional signatures welcome…
1789 2013-06-25 22:24:28 <warren> gavinandresen: am I welcome to join future sigs?
1790 2013-06-25 22:25:02 <skinnkavaj> Would you guys say java running in windows is secure? I mean not in the browser.
1791 2013-06-25 22:25:03 <warren> I seemed to be used as gitian verification for the past two releases... but I didn't know about having gitian sigs in the repo.
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1793 2013-06-25 22:25:48 <lianj> skinnkavaj: if that app is a minesweeper clone not talking io then yes
1794 2013-06-25 22:26:50 <BlueMatt> skinnkavaj: its not much different from some random binary
1795 2013-06-25 22:27:00 <BlueMatt> in fact, its probably better, though not noticeably so
1796 2013-06-25 22:27:09 <BlueMatt> skinnkavaj: also, you really need to define wtf you're talking about
1797 2013-06-25 22:27:22 <skinnkavaj> I vote for warren! Helpful guy
1798 2013-06-25 22:27:26 <BlueMatt> warren: everyone is welcome, but the rule is to wait for 3-from-the-somewhat-arbitrary-gitian-list
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1801 2013-06-25 22:28:50 <BlueMatt> warren: you are even more welcome to implement a better system than the somewhat arbitrary was-here-when-the-list-was-made/has-git-push list we have now :)
1802 2013-06-25 22:29:24 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: there isn't any 'vote for', he just needs to submit his signatures.
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1804 2013-06-25 22:29:36 <gavinandresen> The only criteria for being on the list should be "is not a sockpuppet of somebody already on the list"
1805 2013-06-25 22:30:22 <BlueMatt> yea, adding a ton of people with low weights to the list is probably a good idea
1806 2013-06-25 22:31:03 <warren> i'm falling asleep... is there a procedure I can read later?
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1808 2013-06-25 22:31:35 <BlueMatt> no, you should write one
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1811 2013-06-25 22:32:40 <warren> git pull requests seems to be a cumbersome way of submitting sigs.  your actual goal is to collect GPG signed signs?
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1813 2013-06-25 22:33:06 <gavinandresen> git pull requests are a darn convenient way to gather and keep the signatures.
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1818 2013-06-25 22:40:20 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell michagogo yea, Ive been meaning to work out the gitian zips, they are pretty simple but its a matter of getting them built and uploaded on sourceforge...hopefully Ill have some time this week/next to work on it
1819 2013-06-25 22:40:20 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1820 2013-06-25 22:40:36 <BlueMatt> if only I remember to go home early tomorrow...
1821 2013-06-25 22:40:44 <BlueMatt> anyway, time to upload ppa
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1838 2013-06-25 22:50:12 AndrewClark is now known as DoctorBTC
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1849 2013-06-25 23:05:09 rdymac has joined
1850 2013-06-25 23:06:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: friendly poke to fix pulltester :)
1851 2013-06-25 23:08:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: I know...but I need sleep :(
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1855 2013-06-25 23:20:50 LorenzoMoney has joined
1856 2013-06-25 23:20:56 doublec has joined
1857 2013-06-25 23:21:09 <LorenzoMoney> Was there an update to bitcoin-qt?
1858 2013-06-25 23:21:16 <LorenzoMoney> what is in the new version?
1859 2013-06-25 23:21:52 <sipa> a DoS prevention and a minor performance regression fix
1860 2013-06-25 23:21:57 <sipa> 0.8.3
1861 2013-06-25 23:23:47 <LorenzoMoney> Is it worth me, a non developer user to download it and use it?
1862 2013-06-25 23:24:07 <sipa> yes
1863 2013-06-25 23:24:29 <sipa> there's a potential attack that could crash some nodes
1864 2013-06-25 23:24:44 <sipa> the more updated nodes on the network, the less likely such an attack is to work
1865 2013-06-25 23:24:56 <sipa> (and if you're updated yourself, you're not vulnerable anymore)
1866 2013-06-25 23:25:02 agnostic98 has joined
1867 2013-06-25 23:25:12 <gmaxwell> The update is also trivial and safe, it's not likely to cause you any problems.
1868 2013-06-25 23:26:01 <midnightmagic> do I care about nodes *hanging off* updated nodes?
1869 2013-06-25 23:26:23 <sipa> if they're only connected to updated nodes, they're not vulnerable
1870 2013-06-25 23:26:29 LorenzoMoney has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1871 2013-06-25 23:26:31 <midnightmagic> thanks
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1878 2013-06-25 23:33:21 Lachesis has joined
1879 2013-06-25 23:33:26 <Lachesis> i miss when everyone on #bitcoin-dev was op'd
1880 2013-06-25 23:33:32 <Lachesis> no more anarchy
1881 2013-06-25 23:33:37 <Lachesis> :(
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1887 2013-06-25 23:34:58 <Scrat> Lachesis: I'm holding you right now
1888 2013-06-25 23:34:59 KillYourTV has joined
1889 2013-06-25 23:35:03 <Scrat> you're a great mouse
1890 2013-06-25 23:35:08 <Lachesis> Scrat, thanks :)
1891 2013-06-25 23:35:20 <Lachesis> i used to use that mouse, but then i switched to the deathadder
1892 2013-06-25 23:35:26 <Lachesis> i like the claw grip better now
1893 2013-06-25 23:35:34 <Lachesis> and i got two for the price of one lachesis
1894 2013-06-25 23:35:47 gst has joined
1895 2013-06-25 23:35:51 <Lachesis> but i'm named after the second aspect of fate, the one who measures the length of the thread of your life
1896 2013-06-25 23:36:06 <Lachesis> so you could say i'm holding you right now
1897 2013-06-25 23:36:10 MobiusL has joined
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1904 2013-06-25 23:42:52 <BTCOxygen> Lachesis: How many users where here when <Lachesis> i miss when everyone on #bitcoin-dev was op'd ?
1905 2013-06-25 23:44:39 <sipa> when was that?
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1910 2013-06-25 23:46:26 <Lachesis> BTC0xygen, 25?
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1912 2013-06-25 23:46:36 <Lachesis> sipa, when satoshi was still around, and before bitcoin broke a dollar
1913 2013-06-25 23:46:50 <sipa> was satoshi on irc?
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1919 2013-06-25 23:51:30 <Lachesis> sipa, satoshi was never on irc
1920 2013-06-25 23:51:33 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1921 2013-06-25 23:51:38 <Lachesis> he was actually never really that available to the community
1922 2013-06-25 23:51:52 <Lachesis> he was on the forums about once every two days
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1929 2013-06-25 23:59:02 jaromil_ is now known as jaromil