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  20 2013-06-29 00:35:05 <jaekwon> hey wait, C++ isn't that bad to me anymore.
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  24 2013-06-29 00:42:09 <ryan-c> Does anyonw know of a ECDSA library for python that uses native code to do the heavy math?
  25 2013-06-29 00:44:08 <Diablo-D3> doesnt the python crypto library already offer that?
  26 2013-06-29 00:44:12 <Diablo-D3> I remember someone saying that
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  56 2013-06-29 01:12:22 <kjj> bah.
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 106 2013-06-29 02:52:27 <Morblias> in bitcoin-qt i ran importprivkey (private key), it froze for a good 3 minutes, then looked like it was finished, but the address didn't show up in receive tab. i ran it again and got Error adding key to wallet (code -4), however, now it shows up
 107 2013-06-29 02:52:36 <Morblias> any idea why i had to run it twice to get it to show up?
 108 2013-06-29 02:54:48 <gmaxwell> I had no idea that it would display there in the first place. That whole tab should probably go away for the confusion it creates.
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 161 2013-06-29 04:43:47 <imd23> hey guys
 162 2013-06-29 04:43:52 <imd23> I still need to get a list of transactions given an address
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 196 2013-06-29 05:38:40 <maaku> imd23: if it's your address, list your transactions and filter
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 221 2013-06-29 06:33:54 <imd23> maaku: no, I need to ask about any addrs
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 251 2013-06-29 07:40:02 <midnightmagic> ryan-c: warner wrote it, here: https://github.com/warner/python-ecdsa
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 253 2013-06-29 07:40:28 <ryan-c> midnightmagic: Isn't that one pure perl?
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 255 2013-06-29 07:40:35 <ryan-c> er
 256 2013-06-29 07:40:38 <ryan-c> pure python?
 257 2013-06-29 07:40:46 * ryan-c checks
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 260 2013-06-29 07:41:03 <midnightmagic> ah I thought by "native code" you actually meant native to the language.
 261 2013-06-29 07:41:11 MoALTz has quit (Killed (rajaniemi.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
 262 2013-06-29 07:41:15 <ryan-c> No, I meant C/C++.
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 264 2013-06-29 07:41:20 <midnightmagic> ah
 265 2013-06-29 07:41:31 <ryan-c> I need speed
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 267 2013-06-29 07:41:58 <midnightmagic> crypto++ then, so pycryptopp by zooko et al
 268 2013-06-29 07:42:15 <midnightmagic> some of that stuff is written in assembly actually.
 269 2013-06-29 07:42:15 <ryan-c> does it have python bindings?
 270 2013-06-29 07:42:25 <ryan-c> asm is fine by me
 271 2013-06-29 07:42:30 <midnightmagic> yeah that's why it's called pycryptopp. I run one of the buildslaves.
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 273 2013-06-29 07:42:42 <midnightmagic> :)
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 275 2013-06-29 07:43:45 <midnightmagic> they use it in tahoe-lafs.  What I'm not sure of is whether it wraps the *entirety* of crypto++. I know there is a slight issue with /dev/random on platforms that block long enough to make crypto++ complain.
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 418 2013-06-29 11:57:52 <BW^-> btcd 0.8.1 takes 715MB RAM. so that is because of the networking stack more than anything, you say?
 419 2013-06-29 11:57:54 <BW^-> (its networking)
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 421 2013-06-29 12:00:13 <sipa> use 0.8.2 or above
 422 2013-06-29 12:00:25 <sipa> it has significant memory usage improvements
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 426 2013-06-29 12:07:56 <BW^-> sipa: aha noted
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 449 2013-06-29 12:56:17 <skfax> After receiving a transaction. Is there any point in "claiming" the outputs of the transaction sent to me further, by making a new transaction to myself with those outputs? Or are they already "safe" and "fully mine" without making a new transaction to myself with them?
 450 2013-06-29 12:58:44 <sipa> if you're the only one with the private keys (and you should be), they're fully yours
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 452 2013-06-29 12:59:54 <skfax> cool, thanks
 453 2013-06-29 13:00:13 <chmod755> MagicalTux, what happened to the wiki?
 454 2013-06-29 13:01:36 <SomeoneWeird> chmod755, it ded
 455 2013-06-29 13:01:46 <chmod755> NOOOOOO
 456 2013-06-29 13:02:13 <chmod755> SomeoneWeird, but I paid the editing fee :(
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 465 2013-06-29 13:11:45 <rdymac> no plan on getting the wiki back?
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 502 2013-06-29 14:31:11 <tholenst> The current coverage of the unit tests: http://hex.ch/bitcoin/coverage-html/
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 514 2013-06-29 14:46:51 <tholenst> (i think this is probably wrong for header files, but for .c files it should correctly show the lines which are executed in one of the unit tests)
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 560 2013-06-29 16:03:39 <shamoon> i'm running: ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/myvol
 561 2013-06-29 16:03:42 <shamoon> but when i then try to run ./bitcoind getinfo, i get an error
 562 2013-06-29 16:03:51 <shamoon> i already set up a bitcoin.conf in /mnt/myvol
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 565 2013-06-29 16:06:25 <sipa> what error
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 609 2013-06-29 17:09:04 <maaku> why does WalletDB use the EC_KEY structure instead of DER encoding?
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 619 2013-06-29 17:17:42 <sipa> maaku: where?
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 621 2013-06-29 17:18:44 <maaku> ReadKeyValue(), strType == "key"
 622 2013-06-29 17:19:12 <maaku> CPrivKey is an openssl EC_KEY structure, not a standards compliant DER string
 623 2013-06-29 17:19:41 <sipa> EC_KEY is not a serialized data structure
 624 2013-06-29 17:19:55 <sipa> they don't live in the same namespace
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 626 2013-06-29 17:20:07 <sipa> what is serialized is a DER private key
 627 2013-06-29 17:20:23 <sipa> in wallet.dat
 628 2013-06-29 17:21:07 <maaku> ah ok, i misunderstood what i2d_ECPrivateKey() was doing in key.cpp
 629 2013-06-29 17:21:13 <maaku> CPrivKey is a DER structure
 630 2013-06-29 17:21:14 <maaku> sorry
 631 2013-06-29 17:21:18 <bmcgee> Hi all. I'm trying to understand block verification in a pool server, specifically what does a pool server need to calculate in order to verify a block. I've found some info online, nothing concrete.
 632 2013-06-29 17:22:14 <maaku> bmcgee: send it to bitcoind and check if it was accepted
 633 2013-06-29 17:22:23 chorao has joined
 634 2013-06-29 17:22:26 <bmcgee> if you can point me in the direction of the relevant articles I'm happy to continue hunting.
 635 2013-06-29 17:23:12 <bmcgee> maaku: I'm talking about verifying a block met the lower difficulty requirements of the pool server as proof of work, sending it to bitcoind every team seems redundant?
 636 2013-06-29 17:23:25 <maaku> hash256(block) < target ?
 637 2013-06-29 17:23:28 <maaku> it's a one-line check
 638 2013-06-29 17:23:31 <sipa> bmcgee: that's the only thing that happens for shares: check the PoW
 639 2013-06-29 17:23:45 <sipa> for non-full-block shares
 640 2013-06-29 17:23:55 <bmcgee> so just hash the block data that was submitted thats all?
 641 2013-06-29 17:24:12 <bmcgee> nothing extra or fancy?
 642 2013-06-29 17:24:17 <maaku> nope
 643 2013-06-29 17:24:20 <bmcgee> sweet
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 645 2013-06-29 17:24:55 <bmcgee> then as maaku pointed out if i find one that meets the full difficulty requirements punt it off to bitcoind
 646 2013-06-29 17:25:10 <maaku> yes
 647 2013-06-29 17:25:26 <bmcgee> grand. Easier than i thought it was going to be
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 649 2013-06-29 17:25:52 <maaku> it could still be rejected because you made a mistake in creating the block in the first place, or be stale because someone else found a block already
 650 2013-06-29 17:26:46 <bmcgee> maaku yeah i get that, just makes pool impl easier for checking the proof of work if it's simply hash the submitted block data, rinse and repeat
 651 2013-06-29 17:27:13 <bmcgee> for some reason i was expecting more work than that
 652 2013-06-29 17:27:24 <bmcgee> maybe sacrifice a goat or some thing ;)
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 658 2013-06-29 17:36:13 <maaku> so SignCompact actually adds data to create a self-validating signature, yes?
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 661 2013-06-29 17:39:11 <sipa> indeed
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 665 2013-06-29 17:45:29 <petertodd> sipa: (filenum, blockoffset, txoffset, height) <- why do you need height? can't you get by from the block index?
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 667 2013-06-29 17:48:36 <sipa> petertodd: that would mean reading all transactions and the headers of the blocks they are in from disk, for every pagination
 668 2013-06-29 17:48:54 <sipa> maybe that's acceptablr
 669 2013-06-29 17:48:57 <sipa> *acceptable
 670 2013-06-29 17:49:16 <sipa> but for 1dice addresses that probably means many seconds
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 675 2013-06-29 17:51:00 <petertodd> Oh ok, so the height is what provides the ordering. So filenum/blockoffset give your index to the on-disk blocks, txoffset is then the offset within the block, and height is what you use to iterate in the correct order right?
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 689 2013-06-29 18:13:21 <sipa> petertodd: right, it's just a way for doing an ahead-of-time ordering
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 691 2013-06-29 18:15:06 <petertodd> sipa: We have no nice way of maintaining an on-disk sorted list do we? Some kind of tree implementation or something?
 692 2013-06-29 18:15:27 <sipa> petertodd: how would that help?
 693 2013-06-29 18:15:37 <sipa> the point is avoiding touching the blocks on that
 694 2013-06-29 18:15:46 <sipa> *disk
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 697 2013-06-29 18:16:37 <petertodd> sipa: Well you could have sorted transactions lists for every indexed "address", although that is pandering to re-use.
 698 2013-06-29 18:17:59 <maaku> petertodd: the utxo index will have that
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 700 2013-06-29 18:18:27 <sipa> petertodd: well they are ordered on disk
 701 2013-06-29 18:18:36 <sipa> petertodd: but you need something to order them by
 702 2013-06-29 18:19:04 <petertodd> maaku: good point!
 703 2013-06-29 18:19:08 <sipa> you can't sort by data that's not in the database
 704 2013-06-29 18:19:15 <sipa> so you'd need to have the height stored
 705 2013-06-29 18:20:07 <petertodd> sipa: right, brainfart... Yeah, well the full (filenum, blockoffset, txoffset, height) seems pretty reasonable, go for it.
 706 2013-06-29 18:21:42 <petertodd> sipa: Might as well give enough features that we get people thinking about the awesome twitter bootstrap interface blockexplorer they can code up in just a bit of work. :)
 707 2013-06-29 18:22:39 <petertodd> sipa: Oh, reminds me, there should also be a search mempool option too; implementing that inefficiently is probably fine.
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 709 2013-06-29 18:26:33 <sipa> petertodd: just linear iteration through the mempool is likely faster than any disk lookup :p
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 711 2013-06-29 18:26:46 <petertodd> sipa: Exactly!
 712 2013-06-29 18:27:47 <sipa> ... for now
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 850 2013-06-29 22:02:45 BW^- has joined
 851 2013-06-29 22:03:06 <BW^-> did anyone write a patch to BTCD so that it creates an index with balance on every btc "address"?
 852 2013-06-29 22:03:22 <BW^-> would be interested to unsterstand what's needed for that to happen.
 853 2013-06-29 22:04:28 <nsh> what's BTCD?
 854 2013-06-29 22:04:31 <nsh> bitcoind?
 855 2013-06-29 22:04:32 <michagogo> BW^-: I think sipa had something like that
 856 2013-06-29 22:04:43 <michagogo> ;;google bitcoin addrindex
 857 2013-06-29 22:04:44 <gribble> sipa pushed to addrindex at sipa/bitcoin - GitHub: <https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/compare/39cc8bb3ba...48f219b7a9>
 858 2013-06-29 22:05:08 <michagogo> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/addrindex
 859 2013-06-29 22:05:53 <gmaxwell> michagogo: wrong answer, you should have said that he needed to donate 1 BTC to sipa. :P
 860 2013-06-29 22:06:05 <michagogo> gmaxwell: lol?
 861 2013-06-29 22:06:33 <sipa> technically, not a balance of every address
 862 2013-06-29 22:06:45 michagogo is now known as zombiemichagogo
 863 2013-06-29 22:06:52 <sipa> just an index to fimd all tramsactions affecting an address
 864 2013-06-29 22:06:56 zombiemichagogo has quit (Quit: goodnight)
 865 2013-06-29 22:08:12 <sipa> petertodd: if i add heights, i might as well add vout indices
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 873 2013-06-29 22:19:20 <BW^-> nsh: yeah
 874 2013-06-29 22:19:49 <nsh> right, thanks
 875 2013-06-29 22:19:50 <BW^-> sipa: how far is this from having the balance like that?
 876 2013-06-29 22:19:52 <nsh> (
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 878 2013-06-29 22:22:07 <BW^-> cool to see that it's there. now, i need to do some general digging to understand things. :)
 879 2013-06-29 22:24:07 <BW^-> sipa: wow, that's an incredible amount of branches you have, what are all of them for?
 880 2013-06-29 22:24:22 wamatt has quit (Quit: wamatt)
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 882 2013-06-29 22:24:40 <BW^-> just different nice things that happened not to have gotten further upstream yet?
 883 2013-06-29 22:26:35 <BW^-> gmaxwell: i'm glad to learn to know the thing, and will be happy to do that when there's opportunity.
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 885 2013-06-29 22:29:17 <sipa> BW^-: most are merged
 886 2013-06-29 22:29:24 <sipa> i forget to clean them up
 887 2013-06-29 22:30:19 <sipa> and i dislike the idea of "balance of an address"
 888 2013-06-29 22:30:29 FabianB_ has joined
 889 2013-06-29 22:30:33 <sipa> you shouldnt reuse addresses
 890 2013-06-29 22:30:38 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 891 2013-06-29 22:31:21 <sipa> though you could iterate all transactions affecting an address, and compute their summed effect
 892 2013-06-29 22:31:25 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 893 2013-06-29 22:31:55 <sipa> though an address-imdexed UTXO set would be much more efficient even
 894 2013-06-29 22:31:58 <gmaxwell> a 'balance' is a utxo operation in any case, not a historical index operation.
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 900 2013-06-29 22:34:20 <BW^-> sipa: note made on idea of reusing
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 902 2013-06-29 22:35:20 <BW^-> sipa: ah - wait - and this you made here is, in contrast, an index over which?
 903 2013-06-29 22:35:56 <BW^-> gr8 to see the RAM use decrease in 0.8.2 btw, it went down by another 60% with this release.
 904 2013-06-29 22:36:31 <jouke> Hmmm, interesting sipa :) Does it include mempool transactions as well?
 905 2013-06-29 22:36:40 Guest83631 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 906 2013-06-29 22:37:46 <BW^-> how does mining software interface btcd, via the JSON RPC somehow?
 907 2013-06-29 22:37:50 cads has joined
 908 2013-06-29 22:39:00 <sipa> yes
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 910 2013-06-29 22:39:14 <sipa> rpc is the only way to interact with it
 911 2013-06-29 22:39:20 <sipa> jouke: no
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 914 2013-06-29 22:39:43 <sipa> jouke: though thats easy to add
 915 2013-06-29 22:40:21 <sipa> BW^-: also it is really not called btcd but bitcoind
 916 2013-06-29 22:40:21 <BW^-> sipa: except for if you're in the QT compile right?
 917 2013-06-29 22:40:24 cads has joined
 918 2013-06-29 22:40:25 <BW^-> ok
 919 2013-06-29 22:40:31 <BW^-> just wanted to abbreviate :))
 920 2013-06-29 22:40:37 <sipa> humans are not sha256 hashers
 921 2013-06-29 22:40:44 <sipa> only hu,ams use the gui
 922 2013-06-29 22:40:48 <nsh> speak for yourself sipa
 923 2013-06-29 22:40:54 <nsh> my liver does 7 GH/s
 924 2013-06-29 22:41:11 <sipa> i never claimed your liver was a human
 925 2013-06-29 22:41:18 <xenland> to bad your brain only does 2kh/s on bitcoin mining
 926 2013-06-29 22:41:31 <xenland> (:P)
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 928 2013-06-29 22:42:09 <sipa> nsh: if claim your liver does use the GUI, well go to a hospital
 929 2013-06-29 22:42:09 <nsh> :(
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 931 2013-06-29 22:42:34 <nsh> every time i go to hospital they want to show me off at a medical convention
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 936 2013-06-29 22:49:26 <BW^-> is there a tutorial anywhere for how to make a full cycle of use with the RPC - create account/wallet, create and retrieve public address, receive transaction, check it got there, send to third party, close ?
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 938 2013-06-29 22:50:16 <xenland> BW^ Theres many paths to using the RPC for just doing one type of transaction, there would be quiet a bit, BUT you gave me a great idea to add to my Bitcoindevkit.com website
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 941 2013-06-29 22:51:33 <gmaxwell> BW^-: what you're asking there doesn't even make sense to me.
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 943 2013-06-29 22:51:48 <gmaxwell> "create and retrieve public address" what?
 944 2013-06-29 22:51:50 <BW^-> xenland: could you explain to me now how this is done? =))) i'm quite eager
 945 2013-06-29 22:52:01 <BW^-> gmaxwell: bitcoind does public address generation for you right?
 946 2013-06-29 22:52:16 <BW^-> gmaxwell: i was looking for that, how do you create a private/public pair with it and then get it
 947 2013-06-29 22:52:22 <xenland> BW^- Are you using windows or linux?
 948 2013-06-29 22:52:30 <BW^-> xenland: linux
 949 2013-06-29 22:52:36 <BW^-> but the RPC is the same on both
 950 2013-06-29 22:52:41 <BW^-> i mean, just in terms of rpc calls
 951 2013-06-29 22:52:42 <xenland> And you already know how to send commands to the btc rpc?
 952 2013-06-29 22:52:58 <gmaxwell> BW^-: it sounds like you're expecting to use it in a way that its not intended to be used.
 953 2013-06-29 22:52:59 <xenland> first you should memorize ./bitcoind list
 954 2013-06-29 22:53:03 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: you made a new friend
 955 2013-06-29 22:53:07 <BW^-> gmaxwell: what's the intended use of the RPC?
 956 2013-06-29 22:53:09 <gmaxwell> Bitcoind manages a single wallet.
 957 2013-06-29 22:53:27 <gmaxwell> A wallet contains many addresses, each address is intended to be used once.
 958 2013-06-29 22:53:32 <BW^-> xenland: yes, i know how to invoke the JSON RPC over HTTP.
 959 2013-06-29 22:53:37 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: hm?
 960 2013-06-29 22:53:41 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: his name is stamit, and he has a great love for you and your body of work
 961 2013-06-29 22:54:18 <k9quaint> he offered me BTC to slander you
 962 2013-06-29 22:54:19 digitalmagus2 has joined
 963 2013-06-29 22:54:22 <k9quaint> I accepted of course
 964 2013-06-29 22:54:34 <gmaxwell> sweet.
 965 2013-06-29 22:55:03 <k9quaint> not gonna split it with you, if that is what you are thinking
 966 2013-06-29 22:55:05 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: can you get him to pay me the 10 BTC he promised?
 967 2013-06-29 22:55:25 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: if you get him to pay the 10 BTC I'll split it with you as a collection fee.
 968 2013-06-29 22:55:29 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: I do not think he is open to further suggestions from me ;)
 969 2013-06-29 22:55:31 <Luke-Jr> lol
 970 2013-06-29 22:55:34 <Luke-Jr> good luck
 971 2013-06-29 22:55:56 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: he's offering monetary rewards to anyone doing us physical or reputational harm
 972 2013-06-29 22:56:05 <Luke-Jr> us = gmaxwell or luke-jr
 973 2013-06-29 22:56:06 <k9quaint> in his defense, some of my suggestions may have been anatomically impossible
 974 2013-06-29 22:56:29 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: why you?!
 975 2013-06-29 22:56:44 <k9quaint> Luke-Jr dinged him in reputation on btc-otc
 976 2013-06-29 22:56:48 <gmaxwell> ...
 977 2013-06-29 22:56:49 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I guess because every time he starts, I try to wake up an op to ban him? dunno
 978 2013-06-29 22:56:52 <BW^-> gmaxwell: single wallet - yep i'm all pro that.  addresses not reusable - aha. is the way the RPC is made today, hardwired to addresses being singe-use?
 979 2013-06-29 22:57:16 <Luke-Jr> oh yeah that too
 980 2013-06-29 22:57:18 <Luke-Jr> I negrated him lol
 981 2013-06-29 22:57:24 <gmaxwell> BW^-: indirectly.
 982 2013-06-29 22:57:56 <BW^-> gmaxwell: how?
 983 2013-06-29 22:58:11 <BW^-> xenland: what would you do "bitcoind list" for?? i don't see any "list" option, closest is "-listen"?
 984 2013-06-29 22:58:18 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: you know, if everyone who has observed him being a psycho negrated him he'd have less reason to fixate on just the few people courageous enough to do it.
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 986 2013-06-29 22:59:40 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: the site wanted me to login to do it, so I lost interest
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 988 2013-06-29 23:00:04 <gmaxwell> All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
 989 2013-06-29 23:00:20 <k9quaint> plus, if I was to click on every pyscho in the bitcoin landscape I wouldn't have time to watch Downton Abbey
 990 2013-06-29 23:00:33 <gmaxwell> hah
 991 2013-06-29 23:00:49 <BW^-> xenland: ah, that issues a "list" rpc call; oh, that seems to make my bitcoind SIGSEGV!
 992 2013-06-29 23:00:50 <BW^-> hm
 993 2013-06-29 23:00:53 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: I can be evil if I work at it, so I can hedge my bets if good men get lazy
 994 2013-06-29 23:01:00 <gmaxwell> BW^-: perhaps he meant "help"
 995 2013-06-29 23:01:08 <gmaxwell> BW^-: wtf bitcoind are you running?!
 996 2013-06-29 23:01:11 <BW^-> gmaxwell: hm yeah
 997 2013-06-29 23:01:17 <BW^-> gmaxwell: 0.8.3, OBSD port
 998 2013-06-29 23:01:21 <Luke-Jr> ironically, I think my negrating on stamit is only -2 or -3
 999 2013-06-29 23:01:29 <BW^-> let's try once more
1000 2013-06-29 23:01:41 <gmaxwell> BW^-: fwiw, I wouldn't recommend running bitcoind on openbsd. It's pratically untested there.
1001 2013-06-29 23:01:42 <BW^-> in gdb
1002 2013-06-29 23:02:08 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: What about FreeBSD ?
1003 2013-06-29 23:02:11 <gmaxwell> (well, otoh, if you're willing to run in gdb and fix bugs! by all means, use openbsd!)
1004 2013-06-29 23:02:13 <BW^-> gmaxwell: thanks for pointing out, well i know it's useless for mining there anyhow.   we'll see if it shows to be stable, i'd kind-of guess it does.
1005 2013-06-29 23:02:19 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: Same deal.
1006 2013-06-29 23:02:31 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I've been dealing with FreeBSD lately. It's a PITA.
1007 2013-06-29 23:02:42 <BW^-> gmaxwell: how are public addresses indirectly intended for single use, by the RPC?
1008 2013-06-29 23:02:47 <gmaxwell> I'm sorry for anyone who has to use freebsd. :P
1009 2013-06-29 23:02:49 <BW^-> vinnie_win: how PITA?
1010 2013-06-29 23:03:02 <Vinnie_win> BW^-: They have to do everything their own "special" way.
1011 2013-06-29 23:03:32 <BW^-> vinnie_win: like how?
1012 2013-06-29 23:03:53 <BW^-> gmaxwell: on OBSD at least it downloads and verifies all tx:es correctly , so it does run well.
1013 2013-06-29 23:04:01 <BW^-> gmaxwell: i do have an impression there's some people using it
1014 2013-06-29 23:04:04 <Vinnie_win> BW^-: Some APIs are different, so every application under the sun has to be "ported" which means manually jiggering up some patches or something so that the application can be compiled.
1015 2013-06-29 23:04:15 <gmaxwell> BW^-: there is a lot to correctness beyond starts up and runs though.
1016 2013-06-29 23:04:19 <Vinnie_win> BW^-: If there is no "port" for your system then you might be S.O.L.
1017 2013-06-29 23:04:32 <BW^-> vinnie_win: there's a port.
1018 2013-06-29 23:04:33 <gmaxwell> BW^-: all change is sent to new addresess, there are no good facilities to manage 'old' addresses, no real facilities to control which coins you spend on a address oriented basis, ... and no plans to add any of that to the rpc because address reuse undermines part of the bitcoin security model.
1019 2013-06-29 23:05:21 <BW^-> gmaxwell: how does address reuse undermine the security model, beyond that it increases the relative theoretical possibility that someone would get hold of your privkey just because it exists?
1020 2013-06-29 23:05:30 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: I'm all for writing highly portable software, and I think its desirable that bitcoind work well on all systems... but that doesn't mean I'd generally recommend it. :)
1021 2013-06-29 23:05:42 <sipa> s/security model/privacy model/
1022 2013-06-29 23:05:49 <gmaxwell> BW^-: because it makes it far clearer which coins are owned by which people.
1023 2013-06-29 23:05:56 <sipa> though i guess privacy is part of security in the general sense
1024 2013-06-29 23:06:04 <gmaxwell> Yea, I meant it in the general sense.
1025 2013-06-29 23:06:04 <BW^-> gmaxwell,vinnie_win: bitcoind is implemented fundamentally in a portable-friendly way. making it stable on F/OBSD for non-mining purposes should not be a big deal.
1026 2013-06-29 23:06:18 gfawkes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1027 2013-06-29 23:06:29 <BW^-> gmaxwell: in the sense i just described after "beyond "?
1028 2013-06-29 23:06:42 <BW^-> kinda solely?
1029 2013-06-29 23:06:47 <gmaxwell> BW^-: Its actually pretty unportable.
1030 2013-06-29 23:06:57 <gmaxwell> I invite you to go try to run it on a sparc box.
1031 2013-06-29 23:07:00 <gmaxwell> :P
1032 2013-06-29 23:07:05 <BW^-> :))
1033 2013-06-29 23:07:07 wizkid057 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1034 2013-06-29 23:07:08 <sipa> BW^-: the change of someone getting a private key randomly is negligable
1035 2013-06-29 23:07:12 <BW^-> gmaxwell: how? i see boost and leveldb as deps. maybe depends on endinaness?
1036 2013-06-29 23:07:15 mapppum has joined
1037 2013-06-29 23:07:15 [1]Duly has joined
1038 2013-06-29 23:07:23 <sipa> BW^-: but not losing coins is not the only property
1039 2013-06-29 23:07:33 <sipa> BW^-: you also want privacy
1040 2013-06-29 23:07:34 <gmaxwell> BW^-: leveldb as a dep?! has your openbsd port unbundled leveldb?!
1041 2013-06-29 23:08:21 <BW^-> gmaxwell: correct.
1042 2013-06-29 23:08:24 gfawkes has joined
1043 2013-06-29 23:08:26 <BW^-> gmaxwell: ah yes, indeed it is a dep there.
1044 2013-06-29 23:08:28 <sipa> bah
1045 2013-06-29 23:08:28 <gmaxwell> Privacy has deep implications. If bitcoin is inadaqutely private it breaks fungibility. There become incentives to coerce miners to filter and blacklist particular addresses that wouldn't exist otherwise.
1046 2013-06-29 23:08:34 * Vinnie_win frowns on deps
1047 2013-06-29 23:08:42 <BW^-> sipa,gmaxwell: may that be a problem?
1048 2013-06-29 23:08:53 <sipa> BW^-: leveldb is in our source tree for a reason
1049 2013-06-29 23:08:57 <BW^-> sipa,gmaxwell: https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/tree/master/net/bitcoin
1050 2013-06-29 23:09:14 <BW^-> sipa: aha. like.. is it patched or anything?
1051 2013-06-29 23:09:33 <gmaxwell> BW^-: not that we _currently_ know. But leveldb has made fixes in the past that may have caused chain forking if nodes in the network were mixed versions.
1052 2013-06-29 23:09:35 Duly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1053 2013-06-29 23:09:47 <Vinnie_win> Any patches that make leveldb compile on <whatever>BSD should be applied into the LevelDB tree so that it works anywhere.
1054 2013-06-29 23:09:54 <gmaxwell> BW^-: it is patched, in fact, though I don't believe any are relelvant for openbsd.
1055 2013-06-29 23:09:59 <sipa> indeed
1056 2013-06-29 23:10:02 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: and that too.
1057 2013-06-29 23:10:17 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1058 2013-06-29 23:10:21 <sipa> gmaxwell, Vinnie_win: when i first tested my addrindex patch, leveldb broke, by the way
1059 2013-06-29 23:10:30 * Vinnie_win sighs
1060 2013-06-29 23:10:38 <sipa> i tried 1.12 then, and it was solved
1061 2013-06-29 23:10:39 <Vinnie_win> sipa: Do you have a stand alone repo that can repro the defect?
1062 2013-06-29 23:10:45 <Vinnie_win> oh! /phew
1063 2013-06-29 23:11:16 <BW^-> sipa: so.. if i want to run the addrindex patch, I need to *not* use the bundled levelDB?
1064 2013-06-29 23:11:29 <sipa> BW^-: that has nothing to do with it
1065 2013-06-29 23:11:30 <gmaxwell> BW^-: the concern is that effectively the database behavior is part of the protocol rules which must be uniform in the network. Leveldb's authors aren't concerned about maintaining a level of uniform behavior which is sufficient for our needs— not that they'd intentionally break us, but they're probably not vigilant enough.
1066 2013-06-29 23:12:06 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I'm at a loss to imagine how the behavior of the database could possibly affect the network...unless there's a data corruption bug...
1067 2013-06-29 23:12:29 <BW^-> ok
1068 2013-06-29 23:12:31 wizkid057 has joined
1069 2013-06-29 23:12:32 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: for example. say leveldb has a bug that makes it not able to find transaction 0xDEADBEEF.  Then they fix it.
1070 2013-06-29 23:12:35 <sipa> well, something like bdb before, where there was a limited number of locks, was not excepted either
1071 2013-06-29 23:12:44 <BW^-> gmaxwell: now, back to how to use the RPC for creating a wallet, receiving to it, and sending from it.   where can i learn this?
1072 2013-06-29 23:12:48 Vinnie_win_n has joined
1073 2013-06-29 23:12:57 * Vinnie_win_n has just returned from a disconnect
1074 2013-06-29 23:12:58 <sipa> BW^-: creating a wallet... done at first startup
1075 2013-06-29 23:12:59 <BW^-> just to know that i certainly got it. :))
1076 2013-06-29 23:13:09 <sipa> BW^-: receiving coins: getnewaddress and ask people to send to it
1077 2013-06-29 23:13:15 <Vinnie_win_n> gmaxwell: I'm at a loss to imagine how the behavior of the database could possibly affect the network...unless there's a data corruption bug...
1078 2013-06-29 23:13:16 <gmaxwell> An example of a leveldb fix before we started using it was that it used to run into file descriptor limits and then silently fail to return answers.
1079 2013-06-29 23:13:19 <sipa> BW^-: sending coins: sendtoaddress <amount> <address>
1080 2013-06-29 23:13:24 <sipa> BW^-: anything else? :p
1081 2013-06-29 23:13:27 <Vinnie_win_n> gmaxwell: Oh my...
1082 2013-06-29 23:13:30 <gmaxwell> 15:44 < gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: for example. say leveldb has a bug that makes it not able to find transaction 0xDEADBEEF.  Then they fix it.
1083 2013-06-29 23:13:40 * Vinnie_win_n facepalms
1084 2013-06-29 23:13:42 <gmaxwell> (I said that while you were gone)
1085 2013-06-29 23:14:21 <BW^-> sipa: cool. how check if anything was received to the particular public address, like, number of confirmations?
1086 2013-06-29 23:14:22 <gmaxwell> So thats how database behavior can cause forking in the network— some nodes will accept blocks that others wont— and this can be the result of _fixing_ a _clear_ bug.
1087 2013-06-29 23:14:29 <sipa> BW^-: listtransactions
1088 2013-06-29 23:14:34 Vinnie_win has quit (Disconnected by services)
1089 2013-06-29 23:14:37 Vinnie_win_n is now known as Vinnie_win
1090 2013-06-29 23:15:06 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1091 2013-06-29 23:15:07 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I see, I see. This is pretty lame
1092 2013-06-29 23:15:13 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win_n: ideally we should handle leveldb in a 'suspicious enough' manner that its hard for them to undermine us like this— the current code does an okay job, I think. The older code prior to us using leveldb was too trusting.
1093 2013-06-29 23:15:20 cads has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1094 2013-06-29 23:15:29 <BW^-> sipa: great. what's the "account" abstraction within the wallet?
1095 2013-06-29 23:15:34 <sipa> BW^-: ignore it
1096 2013-06-29 23:15:39 <BW^-> sipa: so, the wallet is the global realm of use within the RPC
1097 2013-06-29 23:15:49 <BW^-> sipa: just pass "0" ass account always?  why ignore it, is it not implemented?
1098 2013-06-29 23:15:56 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I'll add "implement robust key/value store database" to my todo
1099 2013-06-29 23:16:15 <BW^-> sipa: now, after having learned this, i want to understand the code path of sending and receving, fully through the backend, as to have this great enlightenment-aha experience :))))
1100 2013-06-29 23:16:15 <gmaxwell> BW^-: the account abstraction is just a bookeeping feature. It allows you to split out your balance amount into differen groups... but really has nothing much to do with addresses.
1101 2013-06-29 23:16:21 <sipa> BW^-: it is implemented, and it works, but unless you have a very specific use case, it's likely not to do what you expect
1102 2013-06-29 23:16:26 <sipa> BW^-: and not what you need
1103 2013-06-29 23:16:44 <BW^-> gmaxwell: yeah i know, though if it's needed for using the RPC, it's time for me to understand that now :)
1104 2013-06-29 23:16:46 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: and it has to be stupidly fast, and survive abusive use like unclean shutdowns that corrupt the most recently written data.
1105 2013-06-29 23:17:01 <sipa> BW^-: you don't need to use it
1106 2013-06-29 23:17:01 <BW^-> sipa: aha, so i better just use "0" for this?
1107 2013-06-29 23:17:04 <BW^-> aha
1108 2013-06-29 23:17:14 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: Yep. sqlite's low level block / journal interface is pretty solid so its definitely doable.
1109 2013-06-29 23:17:29 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: sqllite itself is slow as shit (compared to leveldb)
1110 2013-06-29 23:17:33 <gmaxwell> :(
1111 2013-06-29 23:17:43 <BW^-> sipa: maybe i'd be happy to understand this now -
1112 2013-06-29 23:17:45 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I'm referring to the low level block routines. Yes the relational part will of course be slower
1113 2013-06-29 23:17:54 <BW^-> sipa: so are accounts basically subdivisioning of the wallet into "subwallets"?
1114 2013-06-29 23:18:10 <BW^-> sipa: so that received coins are accumulated in those respective "subwallets"?
1115 2013-06-29 23:18:28 <sipa> BW^-: NO
1116 2013-06-29 23:18:31 <sipa> no subwallets
1117 2013-06-29 23:18:40 <sipa> coins belong to the wallet, not to an account
1118 2013-06-29 23:18:44 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: I suspect that leveldb's robustness to unclean shutdown is not good on win32 or osx. (we get a lot of database corruption reports there which seem to be mostly absent on linux— and I've tried like hell to corrupt mine and never had luck)
1119 2013-06-29 23:18:46 <sipa> an account is really just a number
1120 2013-06-29 23:19:12 <gmaxwell> ^ a balance number, just like making memos in your checkbook.
1121 2013-06-29 23:19:31 <gmaxwell> "These funds are for groceries, these funds are for rent. These funds are from my lawn mowing business."
1122 2013-06-29 23:19:36 <sipa> BW^-: it's useful if you want to run a shared wallet service, with per-user balances
1123 2013-06-29 23:20:00 <BW^-> aha
1124 2013-06-29 23:20:17 jgarzik has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1125 2013-06-29 23:20:24 <sipa> BW^-: the rules are this
1126 2013-06-29 23:20:57 <sipa> * if an address A has label L, then any transaction crediting A, will increase the account with name L's balance
1127 2013-06-29 23:21:05 <Vinnie_win> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_cleansing
1128 2013-06-29 23:21:12 jgarzik has joined
1129 2013-06-29 23:21:12 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
1130 2013-06-29 23:21:12 jgarzik has joined
1131 2013-06-29 23:21:24 <sipa> * sendtoaddress will always decrease the balance of account ""
1132 2013-06-29 23:21:33 <sipa> * sendfrom will decrease the specified account
1133 2013-06-29 23:21:43 <sipa> * move will deduct from one account and add to another
1134 2013-06-29 23:22:12 <sipa> and accounts can ge negative, no problem
1135 2013-06-29 23:22:20 <sipa> their sum can't be negative, though
1136 2013-06-29 23:23:07 <BW^-> sipa: what do you mean by that acocunts can be negative but sum can't be negative - ah - you mean that, on the RPC call, sum must be positive
1137 2013-06-29 23:23:18 <BW^-> sipa: though, as long as there's coins in the wallet..
1138 2013-06-29 23:23:29 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: its annoying that the utxo set can't currently be incrementally tested. So you can't really tell if yours is right without scanning the whole thing.
1139 2013-06-29 23:23:32 <BW^-> sipa: then it's no problem how far below zero an individual contained account's balance goes?
1140 2013-06-29 23:23:56 <sipa> BW^-: well the sum of all accounts corresponds to the balance of the wallet
1141 2013-06-29 23:24:01 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: I was thinking along the lines of a background task, randomly test portions of the database against information from peers? Is that not possible because of the structure of the data?
1142 2013-06-29 23:24:06 <sipa> BW^-: wallets can't have negative coins :)
1143 2013-06-29 23:24:18 <BW^-> right.
1144 2013-06-29 23:24:33 <BW^-> sipa: aha, so <account> is of type string?
1145 2013-06-29 23:24:35 <sipa> yes
1146 2013-06-29 23:24:43 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: How about using two databases. The current LevelDB database with full data, and then a side database which is robust (SQLite for example) for just the hashes / chain information?
1147 2013-06-29 23:24:44 <sipa> scanning the whole UTXO set takes... a few seconds
1148 2013-06-29 23:24:45 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: not currently very possible. In the future it may be.
1149 2013-06-29 23:25:01 <BW^-> cool
1150 2013-06-29 23:25:01 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: 2x storage, 2x working set size... meh, pretty high cost. :(
1151 2013-06-29 23:25:15 <sipa> extra dependency, extra chances for inconsistency, ...
1152 2013-06-29 23:25:18 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: Well if the alternative is to have no data cleansing, its at least useful to have as an option.
1153 2013-06-29 23:25:19 <BW^-> sipa: the move operation is only abstract and does not actually lead to any operation on the bitcoin network, right?
1154 2013-06-29 23:25:24 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: if we merkelize the utxo set then you'd be able to test your database, and then to compare with peers you just need to compare the roots.
1155 2013-06-29 23:25:26 <sipa> BW^-: correct
1156 2013-06-29 23:25:28 reneg has joined
1157 2013-06-29 23:25:30 <BW^-> it's only an internal restructuring within the wallet. aha noted.
1158 2013-06-29 23:25:50 <Vinnie_win> When I say 2 db I mean that the second one would be only for cleansing, not to store a redundant copy of everything
1159 2013-06-29 23:25:52 reneg is now known as Guest30221
1160 2013-06-29 23:25:55 <BW^-> sipa: then, like a big question: is there Any way that I can easily import cold stored wallets using privkey-pubkey pairs into my wallet?
1161 2013-06-29 23:25:58 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: well we do have data clensing, in that at startup we undo and reapply the last 144 blocks. So any corruption that is at all related to them will be reliably detected.
1162 2013-06-29 23:26:08 <sipa> BW^-: importprivkey
1163 2013-06-29 23:26:11 <BW^-> sipa: did you or anyone implement an index for this so that that is done real fast - that's what your addrindex is about right?
1164 2013-06-29 23:26:15 <Vinnie_win> gmaxwell: That's pretty smart
1165 2013-06-29 23:26:31 <gmaxwell> Vinnie_win: the theory was that corruption was most likely to be in the most recent blocks.
1166 2013-06-29 23:26:53 <BW^-> sipa: any way to make it indexed (as in, not need to scan all these 8GB of info for each such operation)
1167 2013-06-29 23:26:53 <sipa> BW^-: it could be used for that, but i really dislike that
1168 2013-06-29 23:26:59 <BW^-> sipa: why is that?
1169 2013-06-29 23:27:03 <BW^-> that you dislike that
1170 2013-06-29 23:27:04 <sipa> BW^-: because there is no need for it
1171 2013-06-29 23:27:12 <sipa> you shouldn't be dealing with individual addresses
1172 2013-06-29 23:27:19 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I wonder if that's actually the case
1173 2013-06-29 23:27:21 <sipa> just work with wallets
1174 2013-06-29 23:27:27 <Luke-Jr> does it tell the user if it finds/fixes a problem?
1175 2013-06-29 23:27:27 <gmaxwell> We could go further back, but it delays startup, so there is the tradeoff.. doesn't really work well in the background, unless we wanted to snapshot the state... and can only be validated linearly not randomly.
1176 2013-06-29 23:27:40 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it will tell the user to reindex
1177 2013-06-29 23:27:46 <Luke-Jr> don't we already snapshot the state for mining?
1178 2013-06-29 23:27:49 <BW^-> sipa: well, that would provide a way for things to be a bit more "plug and play"
1179 2013-06-29 23:28:09 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: and we've seen it happening— thats partly why we know that its not reliable for some people.
1180 2013-06-29 23:28:10 <BW^-> sipa: also, the privkey-pubkey pairs is like the hard information, while wallets are functions of those+ the blockchain db content, so they do have sense
1181 2013-06-29 23:28:21 <sipa> BW^-: and building infrastructure that relies on a fully-indexed history of forever to be ever available
1182 2013-06-29 23:28:27 <gmaxwell> (a few people have reported it randomly getting stuck, but most of the reports have been it self-detecting errors)
1183 2013-06-29 23:28:35 <sipa> BW^-: i want bitcoin to scale
1184 2013-06-29 23:28:49 <BW^-> sipa: hm. well, yeah, that might be an interesting point. hm.
1185 2013-06-29 23:29:03 <sipa> and wallets are more than just keypairs
1186 2013-06-29 23:29:09 <sipa> you want to give labels to your addresses
1187 2013-06-29 23:29:11 reneg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1188 2013-06-29 23:29:17 <BW^-> sipa: yeah, they're the past TX:es relating to them too, right, and that's it?
1189 2013-06-29 23:29:36 <sipa> and perhaps have metadata like signed invoices associated with them
1190 2013-06-29 23:29:40 <gmaxwell> lol "The best thing about UDP jokes is that you don't have to care if nobody gets them."
1191 2013-06-29 23:29:44 <sipa> and payment descriptors
1192 2013-06-29 23:30:04 <sipa> i think as we progress, we'll move away more and more from the idea that a wallet is just keys
1193 2013-06-29 23:30:07 <Luke-Jr> lol
1194 2013-06-29 23:30:24 <sipa> and losing a wallet is a problem in any case, even if you don't lose the keys
1195 2013-06-29 23:30:51 B0g4r7_ has joined
1196 2013-06-29 23:31:22 <BW^-> sipa: why is it currently a problem, beyond that you'd need to reimport the keys?
1197 2013-06-29 23:31:26 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1198 2013-06-29 23:31:32 freewil has joined
1199 2013-06-29 23:31:45 <sipa> BW^-: what is currently a problem?
1200 2013-06-29 23:32:16 <sipa> i think we're hurting our growth by building infrastructure that relies on being able to easily import keys
1201 2013-06-29 23:32:23 <gmaxwell> BW^-: because you lose any of your metadata— account info, unconfirmed transactions, labels, comments.
1202 2013-06-29 23:32:34 toffoo has joined
1203 2013-06-29 23:32:41 <sipa> if you have the keys, you won't lose money
1204 2013-06-29 23:32:50 <sipa> but a wallet is often more than just money
1205 2013-06-29 23:33:11 <sipa> so, you need to have backups of your wallet anyway
1206 2013-06-29 23:33:16 <BW^-> gmaxwell: what about unconfirmed transactions, those get confirmed by the system itself, so they're not sensitive to reconstruction of wallet out of privkey-pubkey pairs no?
1207 2013-06-29 23:33:22 <BW^-> sipa: yep i follow you
1208 2013-06-29 23:33:37 imd23 has quit (Quit: imd23)
1209 2013-06-29 23:33:54 <BW^-> the "list" rpc call on OBSD 5.2 sigsegv produces this https://pastee.org/y3sbv , looks like I need to compile bitcoind with debug symbols!
1210 2013-06-29 23:33:55 <gmaxwell> Bitcoind takes up 10gb of space instead of 1.5gb space because of being able to import keys.
1211 2013-06-29 23:34:06 imd23 has joined
1212 2013-06-29 23:34:07 <BW^-> gmaxwell: you mean disk space?
1213 2013-06-29 23:34:13 <gmaxwell> Yes.
1214 2013-06-29 23:34:14 <sipa> ... there is no 'list' RPC call
1215 2013-06-29 23:34:27 <BW^-> gmaxwell: wait - you mean that today, this is how it is?
1216 2013-06-29 23:34:37 <gmaxwell> BW^-: If your txn is not confirmed yet its up to you to keep rebroadcasting it until it gets confirmed.
1217 2013-06-29 23:34:37 <sipa> yes
1218 2013-06-29 23:35:19 <sipa> not surprisingly, boost
1219 2013-06-29 23:35:21 <BW^-> sipa: em, that makes the sigsegv funnier, no, as the rpc call should just be ignored?
1220 2013-06-29 23:35:24 <gmaxwell> BW^-: that backtrace isn't super useful, :(
1221 2013-06-29 23:35:34 <BW^-> gmaxwell: yeah, i should compile with debug symbols on
1222 2013-06-29 23:35:38 <gmaxwell> what version of boost do you have?
1223 2013-06-29 23:35:42 <sipa> BW^-: it should return "method not found"
1224 2013-06-29 23:35:47 <BW^-> when making bitcoind, using what arg is that done?
1225 2013-06-29 23:35:57 <sipa> ?
1226 2013-06-29 23:36:15 <BW^-> sipa: on compilation, how do i instruct the make script to compile with debug symbols on?
1227 2013-06-29 23:36:17 <BW^-> \enabled\
1228 2013-06-29 23:36:20 <gmaxwell> our makefiles include debug symbols by default, IIRC. god knows what the obsd port has done. :(
1229 2013-06-29 23:37:07 <BW^-> gmaxwell: yeah, the obsd port currently wipes out your /dev/null so you need to create it from scratch too :)))
1230 2013-06-29 23:37:14 <BW^-> gmaxwell: so there is something left to get in place clearly :)
1231 2013-06-29 23:37:31 <BW^-> confirmed - the obsd bitcoind binary is without debug symbols, i checked separately.
1232 2013-06-29 23:37:32 <gmaxwell> !@#
1233 2013-06-29 23:37:32 <gribble> Error: "@#" is not a valid command.
1234 2013-06-29 23:37:50 <gmaxwell> maybe they just want you to not build things as root? :P
1235 2013-06-29 23:37:54 <BW^-> hehe
1236 2013-06-29 23:37:58 <BW^-> maybe it's the make install part
1237 2013-06-29 23:38:30 <BW^-> aha, i just tried a "listtransactions" RPC call and it properly returned [\n]
1238 2013-06-29 23:39:01 <sipa> my guess: a problem with exception handling
1239 2013-06-29 23:39:13 <sipa> in particular across libraries
1240 2013-06-29 23:39:30 <BW^-> sipa: that does makes sense, I have seen issues in that area before.
1241 2013-06-29 23:39:58 <BW^-> when mixing g++ versions in particular, which i do at least.
1242 2013-06-29 23:41:21 <BW^-> sipa: for each RPC call, one OS thread is created right?
1243 2013-06-29 23:41:27 <sipa> i hope not
1244 2013-06-29 23:41:41 <sipa> i think there are just a few rpc handler threads
1245 2013-06-29 23:41:55 <sipa> but i haven't touched that code lately
1246 2013-06-29 23:42:44 <BW^-> sipa: why would it be a few, i mean, why have more than an idling listener thread, when there is no RPC activity going on?
1247 2013-06-29 23:43:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: did you figure out why leveldb was failing for your addrindex stuff?
1248 2013-06-29 23:46:46 <sipa> BW^-: starting threads is expensive, waking threads is cheap
1249 2013-06-29 23:46:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: no
1250 2013-06-29 23:47:16 reneg_ has joined
1251 2013-06-29 23:47:30 <sipa> i assume just because of the amount of data being written in one batch
1252 2013-06-29 23:48:59 * gmaxwell shakes his fist at the suckyness of the universe.
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1254 2013-06-29 23:50:16 testnode9_ has joined
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1257 2013-06-29 23:52:05 free499__ has joined
1258 2013-06-29 23:52:18 <BW^-> sipa: good point.
1259 2013-06-29 23:52:49 testnode9 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1260 2013-06-29 23:53:03 sandbote has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1261 2013-06-29 23:53:43 <BW^-> gmaxwell: when you said 1.5GB vs 10GB, did you then mean that this is so currently, in order for privkey imports to be possible at all, currently?
1262 2013-06-29 23:55:32 <gmaxwell> BW^-: yes, currently. Actually 1.5 GB is an overestimate.
1263 2013-06-29 23:55:44 <BW^-> sipa: is there any recollection anywhere of which are bitcoind's totality of global variables?       they are listed in the .h files indeed, though it's not obvious if something is to keep state or is a constant etc.
1264 2013-06-29 23:55:58 <BW^-> gmaxwell: really, so the blockchain today is less than 1.5GB really - what's the rest for?
1265 2013-06-29 23:56:30 <gmaxwell> BW^-: the blockchain is over 8gb now, but a full node doesn't need the blockchain it just needs the utxo set (and some recent blocks)
1266 2013-06-29 23:56:31 <BW^-> sipa:  ah, so i meant, global variables that keep state :))
1267 2013-06-29 23:56:58 <gmaxwell> But you need the full blockchain to import keys.
1268 2013-06-29 23:57:02 <BW^-> gmaxwell: ah, and those are what takes less than 1.5GB
1269 2013-06-29 23:57:14 <BW^-> aha understood
1270 2013-06-29 23:58:14 free499__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1271 2013-06-29 23:58:28 <gmaxwell> the utxo set itself is about 250 mbytes at the moment.
1272 2013-06-29 23:58:37 testnode9_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)