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  6 2013-07-15 16:35:34 <petertodd> Threema isn't open source...
  7 2013-07-15 16:36:28 <TD> indeed. open source and "usable gui" seem to be mutually incompatible, unfortunately.
  8 2013-07-15 16:37:35 <TD> what intrigues me is their approach to verification. you can actually dump encrypted messages and decrypt them using NaCL
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 10 2013-07-15 16:37:58 <TD> it seems like this isn't worth much though, because you aren't really verifying the network traffic itself. and the app could sneak out your key via a side channel in a lot of different ways.
 11 2013-07-15 16:38:52 <petertodd> indeed - I was very impressed when I noticed that whispersystems textsecure goes over standard text messages, letting me easily verify they really are encrypted
 12 2013-07-15 16:38:58 <petertodd> far from full trust, but a nice touch
 13 2013-07-15 16:39:15 <petertodd> keeps whispersystems away from knowing metadata too
 14 2013-07-15 16:39:30 <TD> yeah. though your telco gets the data instead.
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 16 2013-07-15 16:39:42 <TD> avoiding metadata collection seems rather hard. i guess you could use threema to bootstrap pond.
 17 2013-07-15 16:40:36 <TD> it seems with a few tweaks threema could be "good enough", at least for a lot of people. in particular the company and all infrastructure is based in switzerland
 18 2013-07-15 16:41:01 <TD> the swiss government is rather non evil. they can be pressured by the US but it causes a giant very public ruckus when they do. at least until we find out that swiss intelligence cooperates with the NSA behind the back of parliament .....
 19 2013-07-15 16:41:12 <petertodd> heh
 20 2013-07-15 16:41:13 <TD> but it seems like you won't find a better way to do jurisdictional arbitrage
 21 2013-07-15 16:41:57 <petertodd> Best way I know of re: metadata requires secure hardware really - remote attesting tor nodes that to constant rate traffic.
 22 2013-07-15 16:42:02 <petertodd> Pipe dream
 23 2013-07-15 16:42:03 <TD> if the app had a way to export all the keys you need to decrypt the wire traffic and then you could use their existing verification procedure, the remaining issue would be side channels. however, if you don't accept auto updates, and you start out by being boring to potential attackers, it's only an issue if the app is pre-backdoored
 24 2013-07-15 16:42:06 <TD> which would be unlikely
 25 2013-07-15 16:42:30 <TD> yeah, well pond does almost like that. timed, padded transfers across tor.
 26 2013-07-15 16:42:55 <petertodd> Yes, but pond has no way of proving that you haven't been sybiled.
 27 2013-07-15 16:43:07 <TD> well, the assumption is you swap keys offline
 28 2013-07-15 16:43:11 <TD> so it just punts on the whole problem really
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 30 2013-07-15 16:43:48 <petertodd> Sure does. Freenet works great for instance... if you use it in darknet mode. Good luck on that.
 31 2013-07-15 16:44:16 <petertodd> Bitcoin probably has more chance of working in darknet mode, but only because there are good incentives for merchants to do it. (less so for miners)
 32 2013-07-15 16:44:22 <arthurb> Hello all, quick question. If I make an RPC call for getnewaddress on a non exisiting account, a new account is created. Is it guaranteed that this account will have a balance of 0?
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 34 2013-07-15 16:45:16 <arthurb> Because I was idly playing with this, offline, with a non up to date blockchain... and I created new accounts which were given a non zero balance. I haven't been able to reproduce it though.
 35 2013-07-15 16:46:29 <petertodd> arthurb: The accounts code has very curious behavior - I'd be hesitent to use it for any projects myself.
 36 2013-07-15 16:46:51 <arthurb> what do you suggest instead?
 37 2013-07-15 16:47:18 <pigeons> external db
 38 2013-07-15 16:47:21 <petertodd> arthurb: roll your own isn't an unreasonable idea (assuming you are making a website or something)
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 40 2013-07-15 16:47:48 <arthurb> so basically reimplement the account feature?
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 42 2013-07-15 16:48:19 <pigeons> yes
 43 2013-07-15 16:48:20 <petertodd> arthurb: yes
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 46 2013-07-15 16:50:31 <arthurb> so I should poll addresses regularly to see if they have received coins with confirmations, and credit that to the associated account (in my own db). How do you suggest I don't add multiple time the amount? Keep a running tally of the coins "accounted for" for a given address?
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 51 2013-07-15 16:55:04 <petertodd> Remind me not to let people with math degrees touch my hardware... 12V into a 5V bus just made a few hundred dollars and a day or two worth of magic smoke leak out.
 52 2013-07-15 16:55:15 * petertodd shouldn't have eaten lunch.
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 91 2013-07-15 17:53:12 <helo> how are reorg implications (possibly reduced confirmations) handled when using -walletnotify?
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 93 2013-07-15 17:54:10 <sipa> if the transaction moves to a new chain, it's notified again
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 95 2013-07-15 17:56:31 <helo> so i guess a typical approach is to call gettransaction and verify that things are kosher?
 96 2013-07-15 17:57:23 <runeks> Is there any way to list the transactions that have an output that pays to a specified address?
 97 2013-07-15 17:57:33 <runeks> Using bitcoind
 98 2013-07-15 17:57:58 <runeks> I'm using blockchain.info, but it's rather unstable. It's down now, for example.
 99 2013-07-15 17:58:57 <sipa> listreceivedbyaddress
100 2013-07-15 17:59:37 <runeks> sipa: I should mention that I don't have the private key for the address in question.
101 2013-07-15 17:59:50 <runeks> (Ie. the address is not in the bitcoind wallet)
102 2013-07-15 18:00:58 cypher_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
103 2013-07-15 18:01:25 <pigeons> there is a watch-only patch, doesn't seem to work against HEAD last i checked, where you can import the public key only and do listtransactions
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105 2013-07-15 18:02:23 <runeks> pigeons: Interesting. Where would I find that? Does it work against 0.8.3?
106 2013-07-15 18:03:07 <runeks> pigeons: And do you know if it also works with getreceivedbyaddress?
107 2013-07-15 18:03:31 <pigeons> try here, i don't know it should at least help you find the latest https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2121
108 2013-07-15 18:04:19 <runeks> pigeons: Thanks!
109 2013-07-15 18:04:32 <helo> be careful when compiling your own bitcoind that you link against libdb4.x and not libdb5.x
110 2013-07-15 18:05:04 <helo> unless you've already ran your wallet on a bitcoind linked against libdb5.x... then you're stuck.
111 2013-07-15 18:05:11 <pigeons> can't really convert a newer wallet back down easily
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116 2013-07-15 18:06:15 <helo> pigeons: db has dump/load utils that should work, but it's probably best avoided if possible
117 2013-07-15 18:07:29 <helo> sipa: did you verify that there is a wallet backwards-compat issue between head and 0.8.3?
118 2013-07-15 18:08:00 Namworld has joined
119 2013-07-15 18:08:47 <helo> i.e. that db5dump | db4load wasn't causing TradeFortress' problems
120 2013-07-15 18:09:35 <helo> (causing the wallet corrupted errors with db4.x bitcoind)
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166 2013-07-15 19:37:07 <runeks> pigeons: Looks like something about key storage has changed in bitcoin-qt since that patch. I can't figure out how to rebase it :\.
167 2013-07-15 19:37:17 metabyte_ is now known as metabyte
168 2013-07-15 19:38:11 <pigeons> yeah go back more
169 2013-07-15 19:39:15 <runeks> pigeons: What do you mean by that?
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171 2013-07-15 19:40:03 <pigeons> are you applying to head?
172 2013-07-15 19:40:12 <pigeons> don't, go back earlier
173 2013-07-15 19:40:19 <runeks> Oh ok.
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175 2013-07-15 19:41:02 <pigeons> obviously dont ever listen to me for anything important, etc
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180 2013-07-15 19:43:22 <gmaxwell> if you run recent git but not head it will make your wallet incompatible with 0.8.3
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183 2013-07-15 19:44:44 <runeks> Looks like this is the commit that changed it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/dfa23b94c24aae6466152fccbe896ba5dc0e97b4
184 2013-07-15 19:45:18 <runeks> gmaxwell: Thanks for the heads up.
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188 2013-07-15 19:50:08 <runeks> The patch https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2121.patch builds against ec0004aca0a2bf11f99c9587ddb2bf8ea818d3bb
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194 2013-07-15 19:54:27 <runeks> But adding an address doesn't work :\
195 2013-07-15 19:54:28 <runeks> error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error adding address to wallet"}
196 2013-07-15 19:54:47 <runeks> I'll look at it later, I'm outie.
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206 2013-07-15 20:02:32 <michagogo> runeks: Is the wallet encrypted? If so, don
207 2013-07-15 20:02:37 <sipa> helo: yes, that problem was found
208 2013-07-15 20:02:45 <michagogo> runeks: Is the wallet encrypted? If so, don't forget to `walletpassphrase`
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286 2013-07-15 22:10:32 <Luke-Jr> re f2763d6, I believe src/walletdb.cpp also needs to include <boost/version.hpp> ?
287 2013-07-15 22:11:12 <Luke-Jr> looks like it was added to db.cpp for that BOOST_VERSION, but didn't make the split to walletdb.cpp
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292 2013-07-15 22:13:21 <sipa> what is boost/cersion?
293 2013-07-15 22:13:23 <sipa> version
294 2013-07-15 22:14:13 <sipa> ah for finding out boost's version
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301 2013-07-15 22:28:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: 4addb2c, the bugfix was the method signatures only?
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303 2013-07-15 22:30:00 <sipa> Luke-Jr: right, the bug could have been fixed by adding the creationtime argument to the keystore AddKey
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305 2013-07-15 22:30:20 <sipa> but that would have been pretty ugly, as the keystore shouldn't care about that
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307 2013-07-15 22:33:03 <Luke-Jr> and that bug didn't exist in 0.8.1 or earlier, I think
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309 2013-07-15 22:34:40 <sipa> indeed, it was introduced by the wallet birthtime patch
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320 2013-07-15 22:50:38 <Luke-Jr> hrm, Export button doesn't work for transaction list :/
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