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   5 2013-07-21 00:10:05 <ahmedbodi__> anyone here?
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   9 2013-07-21 00:21:25 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi__: you were told there is no such thing a few nights ago.
  10 2013-07-21 00:21:39 <ahmedbodi__> huh?
  11 2013-07-21 00:22:05 <ahmedbodi__> nvm
  12 2013-07-21 00:22:19 <ahmedbodi__> im working with doublec's code here
  13 2013-07-21 00:22:26 <ahmedbodi__> https://github.com/doublec/bitcoin/tree/m0.8.1_merged
  14 2013-07-21 00:22:59 <weex> ahmedbodi__: it's better to ask your question here anyway
  15 2013-07-21 00:23:16 <Luke-Jr> weex: he did. he got answers.
  16 2013-07-21 00:23:35 <weex> well there you go then
  17 2013-07-21 00:23:39 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi__: maybe you should ping doublec specifically
  18 2013-07-21 00:24:06 <ahmedbodi__> yeah i did
  19 2013-07-21 00:27:32 <ahmedbodi__> the answers i got confused me and by looking at the code i can see that the patches or whatever add rpc command etc to the bitcoin daemon for things like getauxblock which i dont believe is there as standard
  20 2013-07-21 00:33:47 <turboroot> Welp, here is possibly what's going up on whatcanidoforbitcoin.org. https://i.minus.com/irSjj8p0frNDG.png
  21 2013-07-21 00:37:09 <turboroot> Clicking on each project will bring up more information: https://i.minus.com/ib0VOaFk4aueRj.png
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 145 2013-07-21 05:38:01 <swulf--> LevelDB read failure: Corruption: block checksum mismatch / *** System error: Database corrupted / Error: System error: Database corrupted / Error: System error: Database corrupted ..  is there a plasant way of handling this?
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 170 2013-07-21 06:15:09 <Luke-Jr> swulf--: -reindex
 171 2013-07-21 06:15:27 <Luke-Jr> although that's still downtime (and misreporting until it's done!)
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 173 2013-07-21 06:16:01 <swulf--> yeah, running reindex.  the wallet.dat is soooooooooo slow...
 174 2013-07-21 06:16:09 <swulf--> but it doesn't help that i have 600k+ keys in the wallet
 175 2013-07-21 06:16:30 <swulf--> *the wallet.dat load
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 229 2013-07-21 07:27:25 <CodeShark> Pull Tester: unknown location(0): fatal error in "CreateNewBlock_validity": std::runtime_error: CDB() : can't open database file , error 2
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 231 2013-07-21 07:30:07 <CodeShark> BlueMatt, you around?
 232 2013-07-21 07:30:07 <sipa> heh
 233 2013-07-21 07:30:28 <sipa> it should use wallets in a gtem
 234 2013-07-21 07:30:33 <sipa> in a temp dir
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 236 2013-07-21 07:32:16 <sipa> or in memory even
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 270 2013-07-21 08:19:49 <swulf--> SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000afb91703d071ae630c4d15102026c7a008c704f16e7f42ec39c  height=169793  log2_work=67.787176  tx=2560234  date=2012-03-05 20:52:32 progress=0.047699 / ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED / LevelDB read failure: Corruption: block checksum mismatch / *** System error: Database corrupted / Error: System error: Database corrupted / Error: System error: Database corrupted /
 271 2013-07-21 08:19:49 <swulf--> ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed / ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED / Loaded 6069 blocks from external file in 187537ms / Reindexing block file blk00008.dat... / Flush(false)
 272 2013-07-21 08:20:07 <swulf--> How do I resolve this?
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 274 2013-07-21 08:30:01 <sipa> have you run with -reindex ?
 275 2013-07-21 08:30:14 <sipa> apparently yes
 276 2013-07-21 08:30:43 <sipa> was this during a reindex?
 277 2013-07-21 08:31:07 <swulf--> well
 278 2013-07-21 08:31:16 <swulf--> i ran a reindex because of a corruption message
 279 2013-07-21 08:31:24 <swulf--> and this message came out and stopped the reindex
 280 2013-07-21 08:31:38 <sipa> what os/hardware?
 281 2013-07-21 08:31:40 <swulf--> so reindex didn't fix the corruption?
 282 2013-07-21 08:31:56 <sipa> it does, it wipes the database and rebuilds it from scratch
 283 2013-07-21 08:32:00 <swulf--> Linux bvc 2.6.32-5-686-bigmem #1 SMP Mon Feb 25 01:53:47 UTC 2013 i686 GNU/Linux
 284 2013-07-21 08:32:18 <sipa> but there must be something on your system causing it to get corrupted again
 285 2013-07-21 08:32:29 <swulf--> interesting?
 286 2013-07-21 08:32:30 <swulf--> how
 287 2013-07-21 08:32:40 <swulf--> bitcoind is the only thing running
 288 2013-07-21 08:32:48 <sipa> what hardware?
 289 2013-07-21 08:33:14 <swulf--> specifically?
 290 2013-07-21 08:33:25 <swulf--> intel atom cpu
 291 2013-07-21 08:33:28 <sipa> cpu, disk, memory
 292 2013-07-21 08:33:33 <swulf--> 4gb ram
 293 2013-07-21 08:34:05 <sipa> disk?
 294 2013-07-21 08:34:17 <swulf--> forgot how to check the disk identifier in linux
 295 2013-07-21 08:34:29 <swulf--> 2TB disk
 296 2013-07-21 08:34:37 <sipa> encrypted?
 297 2013-07-21 08:34:41 <swulf--> yes
 298 2013-07-21 08:34:48 <sipa> how?
 299 2013-07-21 08:34:54 <swulf--> loop-AES
 300 2013-07-21 08:36:00 <sipa> could you try bitcoind outside of the encrypted fs?
 301 2013-07-21 08:36:13 <swulf--> hmm
 302 2013-07-21 08:36:15 <swulf--> not trivially
 303 2013-07-21 08:36:32 <swulf--> but i suppose i could
 304 2013-07-21 08:36:45 <sipa> i don't know whether it is related, but i would really like to know what is causimg this
 305 2013-07-21 08:36:59 <swulf--> you've seen it before?
 306 2013-07-21 08:37:06 <sipa> we frequently get corruption reports, but rarely from people running linux
 307 2013-07-21 08:37:44 <swulf--> I would be dumbfounded if the encryption was at fault - it's supposed to be transparent... and the majority of the disk is using loop-aes, even our mysql db, which doesn't have any corruption
 308 2013-07-21 08:38:13 <sipa> well the way that leveldb accesses the fs may be different
 309 2013-07-21 08:38:35 <sipa> another thing that's perhaps worth trying is runnijng memtest86 for a while
 310 2013-07-21 08:38:43 <swulf--> a userspace app would have no access to the disk outside of the mountpoint, though
 311 2013-07-21 08:38:46 <sipa> to see if you have memory problems
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 315 2013-07-21 08:39:01 <sipa> yeah, i know
 316 2013-07-21 08:39:29 <sipa> it should be transparent
 317 2013-07-21 08:39:31 <swulf--> I'm running reindex a second time to see if the corruption occurs in the same place
 318 2013-07-21 08:39:45 <sipa> it won't
 319 2013-07-21 08:39:50 <swulf--> if it does...?
 320 2013-07-21 08:40:04 <sipa> then something very weird is going on
 321 2013-07-21 08:40:15 <sipa> it's likely to fail at a random place
 322 2013-07-21 08:40:21 <sipa> if it faiols frewquently
 323 2013-07-21 08:40:21 <swulf--> last time it died at 169793... current reindex is up to 150000
 324 2013-07-21 08:40:23 <swulf--> so soon
 325 2013-07-21 08:40:30 <sipa> oww
 326 2013-07-21 08:40:35 <sipa> fails frequently
 327 2013-07-21 08:42:04 <sipa> you can increase the db cache size to speed up reindexing
 328 2013-07-21 08:42:15 <swulf--> command line or config file?
 329 2013-07-21 08:42:20 <sipa> -dbcache=1000 to give it 1 GB
 330 2013-07-21 08:42:23 <sipa> either
 331 2013-07-21 08:42:32 <swulf--> happen to know the current default?
 332 2013-07-21 08:42:36 <sipa> 25
 333 2013-07-21 08:42:42 <swulf--> ok
 334 2013-07-21 08:43:02 <sipa> oh, 32-bit or 64-bit build?
 335 2013-07-21 08:43:47 <swulf--> 32-bit
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 337 2013-07-21 08:44:15 <sipa> ok, don't go over dbcache 1000 or 1500 or so
 338 2013-07-21 08:44:26 <swulf--> right
 339 2013-07-21 08:47:53 <swulf--> just surpassed height 170k
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 341 2013-07-21 08:48:14 <sipa> i have to go, please let me know what happened
 342 2013-07-21 08:48:20 <swulf--> ok, will do
 343 2013-07-21 08:48:22 <swulf--> thanks
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 386 2013-07-21 10:16:30 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: pong
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 404 2013-07-21 10:59:39 <CodeShark> Hi, BlueMatt
 405 2013-07-21 11:00:34 <CodeShark> so PullTester is apparently struggling to open the database
 406 2013-07-21 11:01:11 <BlueMatt> what database?
 407 2013-07-21 11:03:31 <CodeShark> Pull Tester: unknown location(0): fatal error in "CreateNewBlock_validity": std::runtime_error: CDB() : can't open database file , error 2
 408 2013-07-21 11:03:38 <BlueMatt> ohh
 409 2013-07-21 11:05:09 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: link?
 410 2013-07-21 11:05:34 <CodeShark> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/pull-tester/a995ad65d6a584f2f6a7523734b510ebbd7fac68/
 411 2013-07-21 11:05:42 agnostic98 has joined
 412 2013-07-21 11:06:29 <BlueMatt> hmm...I wonder if gavin broke it
 413 2013-07-21 11:06:49 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: I reset that commit, but it didnt reset (is it a pull's head?)
 414 2013-07-21 11:07:06 <CodeShark> yes
 415 2013-07-21 11:07:43 <CodeShark> pull 2841
 416 2013-07-21 11:08:12 <CodeShark> or hmm
 417 2013-07-21 11:08:23 <CodeShark> sorry, this commit: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/pull-tester/ce2c87ffe48502656eaa4e9cc657afc501aec91d/
 418 2013-07-21 11:08:25 <CodeShark> same error
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 424 2013-07-21 11:15:59 <CodeShark> and now the head of that pull is 476f73e5ac0cc344eeaaa6e6d13e11f992282375
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 437 2013-07-21 11:38:38 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: no idea, and I cant fix it now....
 438 2013-07-21 11:39:21 <CodeShark> oh well - could it at least be turned off as to not clutter up the pull request discussion?
 439 2013-07-21 11:39:35 <BlueMatt> yea, pull-tester is off
 440 2013-07-21 11:40:00 <CodeShark> excellent, thanks
 441 2013-07-21 11:40:17 <CodeShark> could the comments be removed as well?
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 452 2013-07-21 12:00:33 <CodeShark> why doesn't getbalance "*" 0 return the total balance (including unconfirmed) anymore?
 453 2013-07-21 12:04:10 <CodeShark>             if (!wtx.IsConfirmed()) continue;
 454 2013-07-21 12:04:14 <CodeShark> that doesn't seem like correct behavior
 455 2013-07-21 12:04:35 <CodeShark> I used to use getbalance "*" 0 a lot in the past to check balance (including unconfirmed)
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 460 2013-07-21 12:11:38 <CodeShark> ARGH! https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/172
 461 2013-07-21 12:12:39 <CodeShark> so what's the new way to get full balance (including unconfirmed) for all accounts?
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 542 2013-07-21 13:47:00 <bmcgee> hey with approx. 1300 khash/sec what's a ballpark time for mining a difficulty 1 block?
 543 2013-07-21 13:47:19 Vinnie_win_y has joined
 544 2013-07-21 13:47:56 <sipa> ;;calc 2**32 / 1300000
 545 2013-07-21 13:47:56 <gribble> 3303.82099692
 546 2013-07-21 13:48:00 <sipa> an hour
 547 2013-07-21 13:48:19 <swulf--> sipa: reindex still going this time around...
 548 2013-07-21 13:48:28 <swulf--> many, many hours later..
 549 2013-07-21 13:48:56 <sipa> ok
 550 2013-07-21 13:48:59 Vinnie_win_y_i has joined
 551 2013-07-21 13:49:06 <sipa> i don't expect that to do fast on an atom cpu
 552 2013-07-21 13:49:29 Vinnie_win has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 553 2013-07-21 13:49:31 <swulf--> i wasn't expecting blazing fast, but not this long either :)
 554 2013-07-21 13:49:51 <bmcgee> so the general calc is 2^32 / hashes per sec
 555 2013-07-21 13:50:05 <sipa> the correct one is actually
 556 2013-07-21 13:50:08 <swulf--> it'd be really awesome if reindex could be start/stopped at certain a block or tx index so that it could be interrupted
 557 2013-07-21 13:50:23 <sipa> swulf--: you can arbitrarily stop and continue
 558 2013-07-21 13:50:30 <sipa> just exit the client, and it will continue next time
 559 2013-07-21 13:50:44 <sipa> ;;calc 2**48 / 65535 / 1300000
 560 2013-07-21 13:50:44 <gribble> 3303.87141
 561 2013-07-21 13:50:56 <sipa> but as you can see, 2**32 is a pretty good approximation :)
 562 2013-07-21 13:51:07 <bmcgee> yeah lol cool good to know
 563 2013-07-21 13:51:15 <swulf--> sipa: ctrl-z? :P
 564 2013-07-21 13:51:31 <sipa> swulf--: KILL
 565 2013-07-21 13:51:31 <swulf--> oh, really?
 566 2013-07-21 13:51:36 <bmcgee> sipa: seems integration testing with my little mac mini…. not a viable option. If only I had myself an ASIC...
 567 2013-07-21 13:51:37 <swulf--> but /without/ -reindex, right?
 568 2013-07-21 13:51:41 Vinnie_win_y has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 569 2013-07-21 13:51:52 <sipa> swulf--: indeed, -reindex will start over
 570 2013-07-21 13:52:05 <swulf--> if a corruption occurs during the reindex, then i have no choice but to start over?
 571 2013-07-21 13:52:11 <sipa> indeed
 572 2013-07-21 13:52:27 <sipa> you can create a backup of chainstate
 573 2013-07-21 13:52:34 <sipa> (while the client is not running)
 574 2013-07-21 13:52:35 <swulf--> is it a single file?
 575 2013-07-21 13:52:37 <sipa> no
 576 2013-07-21 13:53:03 <swulf--> what should be backed up?
 577 2013-07-21 13:53:21 <sipa> chainstate
 578 2013-07-21 13:53:30 <sipa> $DATADIR/chainstate
 579 2013-07-21 13:53:59 <swulf--> awesome
 580 2013-07-21 13:54:19 <swulf--> ~250mb
 581 2013-07-21 13:55:03 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 582 2013-07-21 13:56:09 <swulf--> sipa: what kind of data is stored in the chainstate db?
 583 2013-07-21 13:56:17 <sipa> the UTXO set
 584 2013-07-21 13:56:51 <swulf--> are utxo's with amount=0 stored?
 585 2013-07-21 13:56:57 <sipa> yes, they have to
 586 2013-07-21 13:57:04 <sipa> as they can legally be spent
 587 2013-07-21 13:57:05 <swulf--> because they can technically be unspent ?
 588 2013-07-21 13:57:09 <swulf--> s/un//
 589 2013-07-21 13:57:12 <sipa> yes
 590 2013-07-21 13:57:17 <swulf--> makes sense
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 592 2013-07-21 14:00:54 frank__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 593 2013-07-21 14:06:14 <gmaxwell> I think its surprising that its taking many hours though.
 594 2013-07-21 14:06:32 <swulf--> quite literally, about 4 hours now?
 595 2013-07-21 14:06:45 <swulf--> with -dbcache=1000
 596 2013-07-21 14:07:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: on an atom cpu?
 597 2013-07-21 14:07:07 <sipa> in 32-bit mode
 598 2013-07-21 14:07:18 <sipa> probably just 1 or 2 cores for sig checking
 599 2013-07-21 14:08:43 MC1984 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 600 2013-07-21 14:09:48 ahmed_bodi has joined
 601 2013-07-21 14:10:48 <gmaxwell> Fair enough. To some extent "many, many hours later" was getting translated to 18 in my mind, not 4.
 602 2013-07-21 14:10:58 <swulf--> Sorry :)
 603 2013-07-21 14:11:21 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
 604 2013-07-21 14:11:50 <sipa> swulf--: what block are you at?
 605 2013-07-21 14:12:06 agnostic98 has joined
 606 2013-07-21 14:12:52 <swulf--> 230011
 607 2013-07-21 14:13:08 <swulf--> since about 225k, it takes about 10 seconds to process 3-4 blocks
 608 2013-07-21 14:13:28 <sipa> yeah, signature checking
 609 2013-07-21 14:13:36 <swulf--> ooo just squeezed in 5 :P
 610 2013-07-21 14:13:43 <swulf--> probably a block with low tx count
 611 2013-07-21 14:15:10 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 612 2013-07-21 14:16:04 <gmaxwell> Atom also has some odd performance properties. E.g. bitscanreverse is like 1 cycle on i7 and like 20 cycles on atom.
 613 2013-07-21 14:17:08 <sipa> yes, but who needs _that_ ?
 614 2013-07-21 14:17:14 alexwaters has joined
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 616 2013-07-21 14:18:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: you use it in entropy coders. :) it's not the only thing that is odd on atom though its one of the worst differences.
 617 2013-07-21 14:18:58 <gmaxwell> The multipliers on atom have much lower throughput too, though not 20x slower.
 618 2013-07-21 14:19:20 fluxbox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 619 2013-07-21 14:21:01 <sipa> (it was a probably way too obscure reference to xkcd 619)
 620 2013-07-21 14:21:14 catcowllama is now known as catcow
 621 2013-07-21 14:21:23 <gmaxwell> haha!
 622 2013-07-21 14:21:50 alexwaters has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 623 2013-07-21 14:22:16 * sipa tests headers-first sync
 624 2013-07-21 14:22:22 <sipa> well, headers-first-and-then-nothing
 625 2013-07-21 14:22:29 <sipa> ok, segfault
 626 2013-07-21 14:22:31 <gmaxwell> hahah.
 627 2013-07-21 14:22:35 <swulf--> sipa: progress!
 628 2013-07-21 14:22:58 <gmaxwell> "I have completed the invention! … well actually it's not the invention, but the outline of the invention… Oh, it crashed"
 629 2013-07-21 14:23:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: remarkably, i've now removed more code than i added
 630 2013-07-21 14:23:18 <sipa> (all stuff for orphan blocks is a lot)
 631 2013-07-21 14:23:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: this is usually a sign that you're doing the right thing.
 632 2013-07-21 14:24:44 * sipa goes on a rampage and removes the GUI
 633 2013-07-21 14:24:50 askmike has joined
 634 2013-07-21 14:24:57 <gmaxwell> but wait! we need that!
 635 2013-07-21 14:25:02 <sipa> do you?
 636 2013-07-21 14:25:36 <gmaxwell> Me personally? no. I never use it. But!
 637 2013-07-21 14:25:38 Subo1978_ has joined
 638 2013-07-21 14:25:48 <sipa> ok, gone
 639 2013-07-21 14:25:48 <sipa> sorry
 640 2013-07-21 14:25:59 MC1984 has joined
 641 2013-07-21 14:26:01 <sipa> removed from git history too
 642 2013-07-21 14:26:07 <swulf--> sipa: GUI for what?
 643 2013-07-21 14:26:44 <sipa> this -Qt thing
 644 2013-07-21 14:26:47 <sipa> nobody needs it
 645 2013-07-21 14:26:51 <CodeShark> lol
 646 2013-07-21 14:27:01 * swulf-- shrugs.
 647 2013-07-21 14:27:02 peetaur2 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 648 2013-07-21 14:27:05 <swulf--> I certainly don't
 649 2013-07-21 14:27:36 <Luke-Jr> I do!
 650 2013-07-21 14:27:50 <Luke-Jr> if you remove it, I'll have to revive Spesmilo
 651 2013-07-21 14:28:18 <gmaxwell> wait. so if we remove the GUI you'll make something better?
 652 2013-07-21 14:28:30 <gmaxwell> I'm failing to see the problem anymore!
 653 2013-07-21 14:29:01 Subo1978 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 654 2013-07-21 14:29:21 <Luke-Jr> I didn't say better <.<
 655 2013-07-21 14:29:50 <CodeShark> what about moving the GUI over to a separate process? :)
 656 2013-07-21 14:31:04 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 657 2013-07-21 14:31:37 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I think the general consensus has been that it should be seperate for a long time.. and it's been grrradddullllyyy moving in that direction.
 658 2013-07-21 14:32:02 <sipa> with headers-first sync, SPV mode comes a lot closer
 659 2013-07-21 14:32:06 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: you missed an 'a'
 660 2013-07-21 14:32:08 <sipa> once SPV is there
 661 2013-07-21 14:32:18 <sipa> you can split off full validation to another process easily
 662 2013-07-21 14:32:43 <gmaxwell> Really the wallet should become a SPV client, with some special stuff for a richer connection to a trusted backing node when it has one.
 663 2013-07-21 14:32:45 <CodeShark> the only question is whether it makes more sense to have the GUI do SPV or to define a trusted protocol that wallet clients can use to connect to the validation engine
 664 2013-07-21 14:33:05 * Luke-Jr doesn't think the wallet should be in the GUI either <.<
 665 2013-07-21 14:33:23 <sipa> validation node <-> wallet <-> GUI/RPC
 666 2013-07-21 14:33:27 <Luke-Jr> ^
 667 2013-07-21 14:33:31 <sipa> the wallet can be a separate server or not
 668 2013-07-21 14:33:53 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: It should probably be SPV, but that doesn't preclude it also speaking the RPC when running against a trusted node.
 669 2013-07-21 14:34:00 <Luke-Jr> as long as the wallet<->UI protocol is a single stream, it can easily be the same over stdio or socket
 670 2013-07-21 14:35:00 <CodeShark> there are at least two completely different types of wallet use models: single enduser and enterprise
 671 2013-07-21 14:35:21 <CodeShark> enterprise wallets need to support high concurrency and good access controls
 672 2013-07-21 14:35:21 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: In particular, it's kinda lame to ever have your wallet process exposed directly to potential hostile nodes.
 673 2013-07-21 14:36:18 <fanquake> Autonomous agents?
 674 2013-07-21 14:36:23 <gmaxwell> So a SPV wallet connecting back only a trusted bitcoind is still a good model to have. .. but if you're doing that you'll want to be able to get things like notification that the bitcoind has no connections.
 675 2013-07-21 14:36:58 <Luke-Jr> no OTHER connections <.<
 676 2013-07-21 14:37:02 <CodeShark> sure, the protocol would have to be some sort of subscription model
 677 2013-07-21 14:38:27 <CodeShark> the client should be able to subscribe to different classes of messages, including messages indicating a change of server state, messages indicating new bitcoin events, etc...
 678 2013-07-21 14:38:29 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I think that polling is adequate for that kind of thing. Blocks and txn get pushed to spv nodes in any case.
 679 2013-07-21 14:38:42 <CodeShark> why poll when you can have full duplex communication?
 680 2013-07-21 14:38:46 <gmaxwell> (not saying that polling is ideal or anything, but its probably adequate)
 681 2013-07-21 14:39:27 <CodeShark> in fact, perhaps it even makes sense to stick some message broker in between
 682 2013-07-21 14:39:43 <petertodd> sipa: headers-first-sync, talk to me about my scheme for having nodes do succinct non-interactive proofs of the total work of the block headers they posess
 683 2013-07-21 14:40:03 <sipa> petertodd: elaborate
 684 2013-07-21 14:40:10 <sipa> \o/
 685 2013-07-21 14:40:15 * sipa haz a headers-synced node
 686 2013-07-21 14:40:27 <sipa> it took a minute or so
 687 2013-07-21 14:41:04 <petertodd> sipa: Build a merkle sum tree (or better yet, merkle sum mountain range) of every block header you have, then use the resulting hash at the end to pick n random block headers, and provide merkle paths to your tip.
 688 2013-07-21 14:41:38 <petertodd> sipa: n can be set such that it'd take 2^64 work to falsify p% of the headers with 50% probability
 689 2013-07-21 14:41:57 <petertodd> sipa: with an interactive proof, you don't even need a big n
 690 2013-07-21 14:41:59 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: mostly a instinctive response on my part.. because complicated protocols are complicated. And subscription messagebusses have a long history of very low third party adoption.
 691 2013-07-21 14:42:33 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: certantly don't let my cynical reservations get in the way of actually doing something. :)
 692 2013-07-21 14:42:41 <sipa> petertodd: basically tree-ifying the otherwise linear block chain?
 693 2013-07-21 14:42:57 <gmaxwell> petertodd: whats N need to be for that?
 694 2013-07-21 14:43:09 <sipa> anyway, the easy part is done
 695 2013-07-21 14:43:15 <sipa> now getting the actual blocks :D
 696 2013-07-21 14:43:18 <CodeShark> message brokers might be overkill for single enduser apps - but might be great in an enterprise setting where you want high redundancy and logical isolation
 697 2013-07-21 14:43:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: the treeifying there just make the proofs that the headers are part of the committed tree compact.
 698 2013-07-21 14:43:31 <sipa> yeah
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 701 2013-07-21 14:44:03 <gmaxwell> petertodd: how many do you need in the non-interactive case?
 702 2013-07-21 14:44:11 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,blocks
 703 2013-07-21 14:44:12 <gribble> 247753
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 705 2013-07-21 14:44:51 <petertodd> sipa: for instance if p=0.5, then (1-p)^n=2^(-64) if p=0.5 then you need n=64
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 707 2013-07-21 14:45:09 <sipa> 49 seconds to sync headers
 708 2013-07-21 14:45:16 <sipa> and the largest factor is definitely latency
 709 2013-07-21 14:45:39 <sipa> (as it can't be pipelined; you need the last headers before you can send a new getheaders)
 710 2013-07-21 14:45:51 <sipa> a protocol extension could improve that, but meh
 711 2013-07-21 14:46:20 <petertodd> sipa: and with n=64 you can get away with 1% fraud half the time (though remember that's only the interactive case given calculating it is cheap)
 712 2013-07-21 14:47:04 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I would think that you'd want to constrain the selection, but not the comitted tree to multiples of 2016.
 713 2013-07-21 14:47:39 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Why? To prove diff changes?
 714 2013-07-21 14:48:11 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Thing is total work is what you want to prove, constrain it and the attacker is proving less work.
 715 2013-07-21 14:48:19 <sipa> my blocks index is now 33 MB
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 717 2013-07-21 14:49:52 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Note that block selection has to be biased, you don't just pick a random n, rather you pick a set of left-right directions, and then the probability at each step is based on the sum work claimed.
 718 2013-07-21 14:50:25 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Essentially doing that evens out the blocks as though they were all the same work.
 719 2013-07-21 14:51:34 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Incidentally, afaik this is a advance over what adam back said was the state of the art for providing succinct proofs that work was done with multiple PoW attempts, so I may be missing something...
 720 2013-07-21 14:51:44 <gmaxwell> petertodd: sure, you have to do the same thing for value proofs. You have the sum diff left and sum diff right, and you pick a random number % total diff,
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 722 2013-07-21 14:52:13 <r0sc0e> No suitable long-poll found <- what does that mean? try to solomine with bfgminer
 723 2013-07-21 14:52:23 <r0sc0e> is there a misconfiguration in my bitcoin.conf file?
 724 2013-07-21 14:52:38 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yup, and what's really crazy, is you can apply this stuff to a crypto-coin itself, thus making a system where mining is done by the miner providing proof that some subset of transactions were honest. This also institutionalizes fraud, so you can use it as the coin creation mechanism...
 725 2013-07-21 14:53:31 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Unfortunately the numbers for a resonable block rate are ugly, like 500,000 proofs needed for a 5% inflation rate if you want 10min block times, and that 5% rate is based on 5% of the total txout value created, not the total amount of coins out there.
 726 2013-07-21 14:53:55 <petertodd> gmaxwell: I'm sure if I read more SCIP papers I can improve on that though - I mean, it's what SCIP is all about...
 727 2013-07-21 14:54:33 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Solve it though, and you've got a coin that can be mined in a very decentralized manner, and the shared consensus state doesn't scale with transaction volume, only inflation!
 728 2013-07-21 14:56:12 <petertodd> gmaxwell: It's also a lot more private... You do need a spent coins list still, but spent coins lists can be sharded by H(txout:n) so no one person needs the full list. (optionally expire old txouts so the list can be eventually pruned)
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 730 2013-07-21 14:57:32 <petertodd> sipa: Incidentally, credit goes to gmaxwell for suggesting the idea of doing a (n)i proof for block headers, only the implementation is my idea and that's pretty obvious.
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 734 2013-07-21 15:01:51 <r0sc0e> is there a way to add some line in bitcoin.conf to get long-pool workin?
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 736 2013-07-21 15:02:49 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Conceptually understanding the proofs is actually really easy: I select 1/n txout spends, and include them in the block I distribute to everyone. Thus if I want to have a 50:50 chance of getting away with making a fraudulent block, I need to make no more than about 1/n transactions fraudulent. Now if creating a block takes 10 minutes of work, well, there's a balance between how many fake tx's I create that give coins to me, how likely my minin
 737 2013-07-21 15:03:09 <petertodd> s/takes average 10 minutes of work/
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 739 2013-07-21 15:03:37 <petertodd> (remember these are coins I'm creating out of thin air, I spend them only by profing that there is a merkle path from the txout to a previous block header)
 740 2013-07-21 15:03:42 <petertodd> *proving
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 744 2013-07-21 15:06:22 <petertodd> One approach could be to fix the total amount of fees you can collect in a block, and then provide a way to punish anyone you tries to put an invalid transaction in a block, and then make wallets get some long history of every txout they get to ensure that someone else isn't going to screw them over by showing *they* committed fraud... but that seems a bit weak.
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 749 2013-07-21 15:12:00 <r0sc0e> any ideas about my problem?
 750 2013-07-21 15:13:05 <sipa> r0sc0e: bitcoind doesn't support long polling
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 753 2013-07-21 15:13:37 <r0sc0e> so what can i do to do long polling?
 754 2013-07-21 15:13:47 <sipa> use a pool server
 755 2013-07-21 15:13:54 <petertodd> r0sc0e: p2pool does long-polling
 756 2013-07-21 15:13:58 <sipa> but perhaps better ask in #bitcoin-mining
 757 2013-07-21 15:14:01 <r0sc0e> i try to solomine with bitcoin-qt and bfgminer
 758 2013-07-21 15:14:08 <Luke-Jr> sipa: until someone merges my LP patch ;)
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 760 2013-07-21 15:14:31 <Luke-Jr> r0sc0e: be sure you look at solo instructions in README btw
 761 2013-07-21 15:14:34 <sipa> r0sc0e: what hashrate do you have?
 762 2013-07-21 15:14:37 <Luke-Jr> bfg's README I mean
 763 2013-07-21 15:14:43 <r0sc0e> i did Luke-Jr
 764 2013-07-21 15:14:45 <Luke-Jr> k
 765 2013-07-21 15:15:52 <r0sc0e> sipa: about 100 ghash
 766 2013-07-21 15:16:04 <sipa> decent :)
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 770 2013-07-21 15:18:44 <r0sc0e> sipa: yap thats "okay"
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 772 2013-07-21 15:20:00 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Oh, here this will work: with a fixed inflation rate coin you can have every txout in a block come with it's own proof-of-work, and sum up total work. The ni proof them picks random examples to show how sum work for the whole block. Now wallet software only has to go back far enough in history to show that the sum work done for their txout was > the txout's value to know if the txout is probably valid. What's nice is it ensures that making a t
 773 2013-07-21 15:20:09 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 774 2013-07-21 15:20:31 <gmaxwell> it ensures that making a t
 775 2013-07-21 15:20:46 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I note: high words to code ratio today. :P
 776 2013-07-21 15:21:07 <petertodd> > transaction is paid for each and every time by the inflation it causes, which in turn forces mining activity. Probably needs demurrange though so that 64-bit ints work... can simply shift coin values to the right periodically though, which then prunes the spent coin list.
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 778 2013-07-21 15:21:35 <petertodd> gmaxwell: The only difference from a normal day for me is the ratio has to be expressed in a double rather than a single-width float.
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 784 2013-07-21 15:28:35 <petertodd> gmaxwell: The best part, is all of the above can be shoved into Bitcoin with a soft-fork. Later on we can do a hard-fork to remove the requirement to have a linear block at all, and the hard-fork would then be where we change the economics... unlikely to happen, but it's interesting how it can be done.
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 786 2013-07-21 15:30:10 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Would get us a properly decentralized crypto-coin because absolutely nothing I've said can't be done by decentralized and distributed low-bandwidth nodes co-operating in pools. (obvs fidelity bonds to ensure nodes don't hold up ni proofs will be a must)
 787 2013-07-21 15:32:06 <petertodd> (FWIW a nice trick here is to have your wallet only produce txouts for a particular part of the spent list, which means you can still maintain that part, and provide those you give coins to the proof that the txout being spent wasn't already spent!)
 788 2013-07-21 15:33:11 <petertodd> (spent list would be arranged as a patricia tree of course, and it too needs ni proof sampling)
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 791 2013-07-21 15:35:35 <petertodd> Oh, and that means that as you go up the tree, you can figure out what proofs got sampled at every step... so actually the "miner at the pool goes away" problem isn't a problem - just give the next level up the proof if the ni said you needed one. You do need to make blocks random still, so a second PoW over the tip is probably right, or just constrain H(tip) < target2
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 794 2013-07-21 15:42:18 <gmaxwell> petertodd: so, if you go and do the math on faking an NI proof that way, it's not so super wonderful for making the proofs compact for a given security bound.
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 796 2013-07-21 15:43:38 <petertodd> gmaxwell: I know, that's why I'm saying you have to sidestep the problem by either institutionalizing fraud as coin creation, or creating a system where you are expected to have the history of any given txout going far enough back that work > txout value.
 797 2013-07-21 15:44:38 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Note how the second essentially means that every time you spend a txout, a certain % of it's value vanishes unless you were the one to do the work to mine it.
 798 2013-07-21 15:44:51 <gmaxwell> petertodd: okay thats actually pretty slick— the institutionalizing fraud as coin creation— but one problem with it is  simultaniously keeping the fraud rate controllable while also not making large spends very expensive.
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 800 2013-07-21 15:45:05 <gmaxwell> ^ see the latter part
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 803 2013-07-21 15:45:36 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Indeed, but look at it this way: large spends *should* be very expensive, because they require a lot of security. It actually fixes the bad economics of the Bitcoin system re: the sustainability of mining.
 804 2013-07-21 15:46:15 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yeah, it's back to a % fee on txout value, but I don't think that's all that bad.
 805 2013-07-21 15:47:18 <gmaxwell> I guess that gives an ultimate answer to my answer to the suggestion that people with high value txn would pay "performance bonds"... my answer to that is, derp why wouldn't they just mine themselves at least then they'd get to pick a chain that wasn't against their interest.
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 809 2013-07-21 15:48:28 <petertodd> Indeed, there may also be a way to sanely burn coins and turn that into pseudo-mining-effort too - like what I was saying about consensus level replace-by-fee scorched earth in my Zerocoin proposal.
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 811 2013-07-21 15:51:36 <petertodd> Of course, often people would just broadcast a tx lacking the PoW, and then miners would have to do the work themselves, with the rules determining the target for the work, and how they can collect that work into a txout.
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 814 2013-07-21 15:58:20 <petertodd> Oh, and this is cool: see how to do fraud properly we need to set the inflation rate in terms of % per txout created? See at the top level we can't prove anything about the sum of all txouts created with acceptably low levels of fraud, only locally can we do that.
 815 2013-07-21 15:59:11 <petertodd> But this is actually good: we want inflation to have something to do with how much money is moving, which is more closely the money supply, (and security needs still) than we want it to be an absolute thing.
 816 2013-07-21 15:59:12 <CheckDavid> Anyone wants to earn free Bitcoins just for chatting with me? Send me a PM =)
 817 2013-07-21 15:59:32 <Luke-Jr> CheckDavid: spam is off-topic here
 818 2013-07-21 15:59:37 <petertodd> If  no-one spends money, coin creation actually stops... (aside from a bootstrapping process or somesuch)
 819 2013-07-21 15:59:48 <CheckDavid> sorry
 820 2013-07-21 16:02:01 <petertodd> Hmm... I guess we'll probably have coin-creation done in as a special transaction, so we can get shared consensus and keep that type of inflation low.
 821 2013-07-21 16:03:12 <petertodd> (I think you need some way to create coins out of thin air to satisfy miners and get interest in the 'coin bootstrapped)
 822 2013-07-21 16:03:46 <petertodd> (a coin/block forever should be fine)
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 826 2013-07-21 16:06:57 <Luke-Jr> strUsage += "\n"; _("SSL options: (see the Bitcoin Wiki for SSL setup instructions)") + "\n";
 827 2013-07-21 16:07:06 <Luke-Jr> am I missing something? how does the string get used? :/
 828 2013-07-21 16:07:25 <petertodd> lol, that's gotta be a bug
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 831 2013-07-21 16:15:17 <sipa> ;;blocks
 832 2013-07-21 16:15:18 <gribble> 247767
 833 2013-07-21 16:21:25 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: wtf why doesn't the compiler warn about a statement with no effect? I guess it thinks the translation macro has side effects? :P
 834 2013-07-21 16:21:35 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I guess :x
 835 2013-07-21 16:21:36 <swulf--> some compilers will
 836 2013-07-21 16:22:02 <gmaxwell> someone should go annotate that transaction function with the pure annotation. :P
 837 2013-07-21 16:22:22 <swulf--> "(void)var;" is generally an acceptible method of silencing the "unused parameter" warning, though
 838 2013-07-21 16:22:40 <gmaxwell> IIRC GCC will warn about ;pure_function();.
 839 2013-07-21 16:22:52 <swulf--> -Wall maybe?
 840 2013-07-21 16:23:50 <gmaxwell> swulf--: the translation macro likely calls a function which is probably not annotated as pure. (and perhaps it can't be, e.g. if it has to allocate a string...)
 841 2013-07-21 16:23:55 <sipa> it needs some extension the function is pure
 842 2013-07-21 16:24:03 <sipa> __attribute__((pure)) or so
 843 2013-07-21 16:24:29 <swulf--> is _() being used in a pure context a serious problem?
 844 2013-07-21 16:24:42 <sipa> no
 845 2013-07-21 16:24:45 <gmaxwell> swulf--: apparently we had the mistake twice! :P
 846 2013-07-21 16:24:45 <sipa> it's just pointless
 847 2013-07-21 16:25:11 <swulf--> __attribute__((pure)) could add to difficulties porting?
 848 2013-07-21 16:25:11 <gmaxwell> swulf--: lots of useful warnings happen for things which themselves are harmless but indicate that you very likely made a mistake.
 849 2013-07-21 16:25:17 <gmaxwell> swulf--: nah.
 850 2013-07-21 16:25:34 <swulf--> gmaxwell: sure, absolutely agree
 851 2013-07-21 16:25:36 <gmaxwell> swulf--: you make it a FOO_PURE macro, and use it only when available, e.g. wrapped in a GCC test.
 852 2013-07-21 16:25:44 * swulf-- nods
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 854 2013-07-21 16:35:07 <gfawkes> *yawn* internet trollz are so predictable and only mildly amusing in their antics on a user submitted content form
 855 2013-07-21 16:35:23 <sipa> "In other news, ..."
 856 2013-07-21 16:37:33 <gfawkes> unfortunately as a dev, it means having to waste my time adding stupid content checks to deter the morons
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 868 2013-07-21 17:01:46 <bmcgee> Hey I'm running bitcoin-qt on a mac. Is it possible to start it with --blocknotify just like with bitcoind?
 869 2013-07-21 17:04:05 <Luke-Jr> pretty sure yes
 870 2013-07-21 17:04:09 <Luke-Jr> but it's just one dash
 871 2013-07-21 17:04:11 <Luke-Jr> -blocknotify='command'
 872 2013-07-21 17:04:33 <Luke-Jr> (no, I don't know why we break standard for commandline parsing)
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 875 2013-07-21 17:07:23 <bmcgee> i don't see how i can pass it a command line param, can't be invoked from the command line. I don't a config option for specifying it either in bitcoin.conf
 876 2013-07-21 17:07:30 <bmcgee> *don't see a config
 877 2013-07-21 17:07:48 <swulf--> Luke-Jr: because Satoshi?
 878 2013-07-21 17:08:09 <Luke-Jr> bmcgee: bitcoin.conf is the command line.
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 880 2013-07-21 17:08:49 <bmcgee> Luke-Jr: so stick it in bitcoin.conf then?
 881 2013-07-21 17:09:06 <bmcgee> it just concatenates the conf file into a set of command line params?
 882 2013-07-21 17:10:04 <Luke-Jr> more or less
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 884 2013-07-21 17:10:31 <Luke-Jr> obviously no - in the config
 885 2013-07-21 17:11:35 <bmcgee> yup
 886 2013-07-21 17:11:56 <Luke-Jr> I think you don't need quotation either
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 889 2013-07-21 17:12:31 <sipa> ;;diff
 890 2013-07-21 17:12:32 <gribble> 2.61628756825699E7
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 896 2013-07-21 17:16:57 <fanquake> bmcgee you need to pass --args first then -blocknotify
 897 2013-07-21 17:17:09 <sipa> ?
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 899 2013-07-21 17:17:50 <bmcgee> I second that ?
 900 2013-07-21 17:18:18 <fanquake> bmcgee I assume your using
 901 2013-07-21 17:18:26 <fanquake> open Bitcoin-Qt.app
 902 2013-07-21 17:18:39 <fanquake> if you want to pass command line arguments you need todo
 903 2013-07-21 17:18:44 <sipa> oh, osx stuffz
 904 2013-07-21 17:18:48 <fanquake> open Bitcoin-Qt.app --args -command
 905 2013-07-21 17:18:51 <bmcgee> i was told i could add it bitcoin.conf instead
 906 2013-07-21 17:19:00 <bmcgee> sans the -
 907 2013-07-21 17:19:03 <sipa> yes, that's easier
 908 2013-07-21 17:19:12 <fanquake> yes bitcoin.conf is fine
 909 2013-07-21 17:19:21 <bmcgee> cool
 910 2013-07-21 17:19:24 <bmcgee> just trying that now
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 952 2013-07-21 17:53:59 <bmcgee> after faffing around a bit and realising I had the wrong ip address I managed to get the block notify working. Thx Luke-Jr, sipa and fanquake
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1079 2013-07-21 19:48:57 <bmcgee> Got some basic mining questions, so brace yourselves for some 'stupid'
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1085 2013-07-21 19:49:57 <bmcgee> Miner hits up pool server for a block template. It can specify a nonces field if it wants specifying the nonce range it needs. Similarly in the response a noncerange can be specified to tell a miner the range of nonces it can scan
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1088 2013-07-21 19:50:23 <bmcgee> so a miner gets a response, creates a block and starts trying to find a hash which meets the difficulty requirements
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1090 2013-07-21 19:50:36 <bmcgee> it creates more possibilities by incrementing the nonce
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1092 2013-07-21 19:50:42 <bmcgee> all correct so far?
1093 2013-07-21 19:50:45 <sipa> yes
1094 2013-07-21 19:50:54 <bmcgee> cool
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1098 2013-07-21 19:51:31 <bmcgee> so if you have n miners it's best to ensure they're working with different nonce ranges to maximise the work done. Correct?
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1101 2013-07-21 19:51:47 <sipa> you just give them different work
1102 2013-07-21 19:52:03 <sipa> i think few implementations actually bother limiting nonce ranges
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1105 2013-07-21 19:52:18 <bmcgee> can you clarify the work in that statement
1106 2013-07-21 19:52:29 <sipa> the block being mined
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1108 2013-07-21 19:52:38 <sipa> in particular, its coinbase transaction
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1125 2013-07-21 19:53:07 <bmcgee> ah so there is a mutable section in the coinbase that can be tweaked to allow each miner to have effectively a different block?
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1197 2013-07-21 20:08:58 <davec> bmcgee: yeah the coinbase script is serialized block height (required as of block version 2) then some extra stuff like an extra nonce and some miners also put flags in there for supported features
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1200 2013-07-21 20:10:23 <bmcgee> davec: the scriptSig is a max of 100 bytes right? i thought version 2 is not widely supported at the moment?
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1204 2013-07-21 20:10:59 <davec> everything is version 2 for a while (network rule in place where once 95% of the network had upgraded, version 1 are rejected)
1205 2013-07-21 20:11:09 <davec> yes, coinbase script between 2 and 100
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1207 2013-07-21 20:12:06 <bmcgee> BIP 0034 details the contents of scriptSig for version 2 compliance correct?
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1209 2013-07-21 20:12:40 <davec> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L2314-L2322 is the relevant code
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1218 2013-07-21 20:13:14 <bmcgee> thx
1219 2013-07-21 20:13:19 <davec> correct on BIP0034
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1225 2013-07-21 20:15:44 <bmcgee> ha ha if i ONLY want my software to work for the next 300 years I can hardcode the first byte of the serialised height to 0x03……
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1229 2013-07-21 20:16:20 <davec> well there are going to be issues before that without code changes anyways
1230 2013-07-21 20:16:36 <davec> timestamps in several places use uint32 -- i.e 2106 max
1231 2013-07-21 20:16:48 <bmcgee> if my software is running 5 years from now i'll be impressed lol
1232 2013-07-21 20:17:32 <bmcgee> usually before then some other developer comes along, says it's all shit, let's rewrite and the circle of life continues...
1233 2013-07-21 20:18:20 <sipa> davec: not a problem
1234 2013-07-21 20:18:33 <sipa> even with 16 bits timestamps it would be doable
1235 2013-07-21 20:19:17 <sipa> just assume the higher bits increase when the lower ones decrease more than a few hours
1236 2013-07-21 20:19:58 <sipa> bmcgee: it's not about the software but the protocol
1237 2013-07-21 20:20:07 <davec> agreed, it's completely solvable, I was just saying code changes will be needed far before the 300 years when the number of bytes needed for the varint representing the serialized height in the coinbase script happens
1238 2013-07-21 20:20:23 <sipa> and everything that is part of bitcoin's consensus rules are extremely hard to change
1239 2013-07-21 20:20:30 <sipa> ha, true
1240 2013-07-21 20:20:37 <sipa> unlikely to be a problem :)
1241 2013-07-21 20:20:38 <bmcgee> sipa: very true. it's impressive the timeframe taking into account when designing bitcoin
1242 2013-07-21 20:20:45 <bmcgee> *taken into account
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1244 2013-07-21 20:22:04 <bmcgee> in the scriptSig is the height encoded as a VarInt then? I see the spec in the BIP but if it's the same as the general var int used throughout bitcoin i already have an implementation for that
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1246 2013-07-21 20:22:20 <davec> correct
1247 2013-07-21 20:22:24 <bmcgee> sweet
1248 2013-07-21 20:22:32 <sipa> afaik it'$
1249 2013-07-21 20:22:44 <sipa> afaik it is encoded as byte-series push
1250 2013-07-21 20:22:49 <sipa> not as a varint
1251 2013-07-21 20:23:03 <sipa> a varint would be 5 bytes
1252 2013-07-21 20:24:27 <bmcgee> ah
1253 2013-07-21 20:24:40 <davec> ah right, number of bytes, little endian height
1254 2013-07-21 20:25:03 <sipa> ;;calc 2**24 / 210000 * 4
1255 2013-07-21 20:25:03 <gribble> 319.566019048
1256 2013-07-21 20:25:07 <bmcgee> yeah, that would have been too easy :). So hardcode number of bytes (0x03), little endian encoding
1257 2013-07-21 20:26:06 <davec> would start with a 0xfe if it were a varint iirc
1258 2013-07-21 20:26:13 <sipa> correct
1259 2013-07-21 20:26:36 <TheLordOfTime> don't... know... why... i was opped...
1260 2013-07-21 20:26:38 <TheLordOfTime> o.O
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1262 2013-07-21 20:28:38 <gmaxwell> wasn't me.
1263 2013-07-21 20:29:58 <gmaxwell> bmcgee: there are quite a few 2038 problems in the reference software as it... for example, boost's timers return instantly for times past 2038... which will actually cause issues long before 2038.
1264 2013-07-21 20:30:10 <gmaxwell> (because some of the timers are long ones)
1265 2013-07-21 20:31:06 <bmcgee> yeah its like sipa said, the protocol has a helluva lot of longevity, implementation has a ways to go and will always need maintenance
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1287 2013-07-21 21:08:19 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell:  honestly, I'm baffled as to why i was opped, i mean... unless i missed something while freenode was splitting...
1288 2013-07-21 21:10:05 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: it may have been some split weirdness from when you were short term opped previously.
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1293 2013-07-21 21:18:23 * TheLordOfTime shrugs
1294 2013-07-21 21:18:29 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell:  possibly, but i dunno
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1343 2013-07-21 22:20:57 <serp> hey fellers.. how it goes today?
1344 2013-07-21 22:21:16 <serp> well wrong channel but hi anyways
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1346 2013-07-21 22:23:10 <bitanarchy> wy does bitcoin not require privoxy to run over tor?
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1349 2013-07-21 22:24:54 <sipa> why would it?
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1351 2013-07-21 22:25:57 <bitanarchy> sipa: well you need a proxy to run tor right...
1352 2013-07-21 22:26:34 <sipa> tor is a SOCKS5 proxy
1353 2013-07-21 22:26:38 <mhanne> bitanarchy: tor has direct socks support. privoxy is just needed to clean private info from your http requests
1354 2013-07-21 22:26:39 <sipa> that's all we need
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1356 2013-07-21 22:28:03 <bitanarchy> socks5 proxy is not a web proxy... so socks5 is on 9050 and privoxy is a web proxy  which should be on on 9150/9151
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1365 2013-07-21 22:32:28 <Luke-Jr> bitanarchy: Bitcoin is not web.
1366 2013-07-21 22:32:57 <Luke-Jr> SOCKS5 proxy is an internet proxy. Which is plenty fine for Bitcoin.
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1388 2013-07-21 23:43:59 <Tabaza> i want to build online trading for bitcoin
1389 2013-07-21 23:44:12 <Tabaza> and to have many possible options
1390 2013-07-21 23:44:18 <Tabaza> iamopen for investments.
1391 2013-07-21 23:44:29 <Tabaza> looking for experts in bitcoins to guide me
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