1 2013-08-02 00:00:25 <JWU42> gmaxwell: I did 9lose a 0.8.3)
2 2013-08-02 00:00:49 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3 2013-08-02 00:00:50 <gmaxwell> JWU42: can you check its debug log and get the actual version line from it?
4 2013-08-02 00:01:04 <JWU42> log is gone
5 2013-08-02 00:01:13 <JWU42> I pasted the git log info above
6 2013-08-02 00:01:16 <warren> hmm, need to run with full debug symbols and abrt* daemon to automatically get tracebacks
7 2013-08-02 00:01:20 imton has joined
8 2013-08-02 00:01:22 * warren begins doing that.
9 2013-08-02 00:01:23 handle has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10 2013-08-02 00:01:34 handle has joined
11 2013-08-02 00:01:40 <JWU42> commit 40809aed657502e9de158e2cfe2c659a316f2f90 on 0.8.3
12 2013-08-02 00:01:51 <gmaxwell> JWU42: whats the debug.log version line?
13 2013-08-02 00:01:53 <dbitcoin> as I remember I do not apply any modifications to this builds
14 2013-08-02 00:01:53 <JWU42> gmaxwell: commit c83d4d2170bf00863bd5c21c6eaea91b00390e72 on 0.8.99
15 2013-08-02 00:02:24 jouke has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
16 2013-08-02 00:02:42 <gmaxwell> JWU42: look for "Bitcoin version" in debug.log
17 2013-08-02 00:02:54 <JWU42> Bitcoin version v0.8.2-51-gc83d4d2-dirty-beta (2013-06-03 09:17:55 -0700)
18 2013-08-02 00:03:01 <JWU42> for 0.8.99 box
19 2013-08-02 00:03:28 <gmaxwell> Bit of valgrind uncleanness on my c2aca50++ node:
20 2013-08-02 00:03:30 <gmaxwell> ==328== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
21 2013-08-02 00:03:30 <gmaxwell> ==328== at 0x554D62: CWallet::LoadKeyMetadata(CPubKey const&, CKeyMetadata const&) (wallet.cpp:92)
22 2013-08-02 00:03:33 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x56F548: ReadKeyValue(CWallet*, CDataStream&, CDataStream&, CWalletScanState&, std::string&, std::string&) (walletdb.cpp:353)
23 2013-08-02 00:03:33 BenderCoin has joined
24 2013-08-02 00:03:36 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x570034: CWalletDB::LoadWallet(CWallet*) (walletdb.cpp:455)
25 2013-08-02 00:03:38 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x54D2F2: CWallet::LoadWallet(bool&) (wallet.cpp:1442)
26 2013-08-02 00:03:41 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x44AE33: AppInit2(boost::thread_group&) (init.cpp:842)
27 2013-08-02 00:03:43 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x462664: AppInit(int, char**) (bitcoind.cpp:102)
28 2013-08-02 00:03:45 <gmaxwell> doubtful related, however. but I'll forget if I don't mention it.
29 2013-08-02 00:03:47 <gmaxwell> ==328== by 0x4182D0: main (bitcoind.cpp:135)
30 2013-08-02 00:04:10 <JWU42> gmaxwell: Bitcoin version v0.8.3-dirty-beta (2013-06-25 10:27:24 -0400) on 0.8.3 rig
31 2013-08-02 00:04:11 <Graet> just got back, but 3 of ozcoins bitcoinds crashed out too
32 2013-08-02 00:04:30 <JWU42> Graet: strtaum ?
33 2013-08-02 00:04:33 <Graet> got the dreaded 3.30am call
34 2013-08-02 00:04:33 <JWU42> err
35 2013-08-02 00:04:39 <JWU42> stratum?
36 2013-08-02 00:04:45 <Graet> yeah
37 2013-08-02 00:04:53 <gmaxwell> JWU42: any patches applied on that 0.8.3? The dirty stuff is supposted to trigger on when its modified with uncommitted changes.. though perhaps its a bit jumpy.
38 2013-08-02 00:04:57 <Graet> but 2 didnt
39 2013-08-02 00:05:05 <JWU42> gmaxwell: nope - no patches - not that smart ;)
40 2013-08-02 00:05:10 <gmaxwell> Graet: can you get the versions on the ones that died and the ones that didn't?
41 2013-08-02 00:05:21 <warren> JWU42: can you reproduce the crash easily after restart?
42 2013-08-02 00:05:39 jouke has joined
43 2013-08-02 00:05:41 <JWU42> warren: I have restarted them - no updates - and they are running "fine"
44 2013-08-02 00:05:48 <gmaxwell> warren: the crash appears to have been transaction / mempool triggered, but we don't know what txid.
45 2013-08-02 00:06:18 <warren> any HEAD nodes crashed?
46 2013-08-02 00:06:35 <JWU42> I have two other bitcoinds that were fine -- seems to be realted to bitcoinds that were mining ?
47 2013-08-02 00:06:52 <warren> that's just as bad
48 2013-08-02 00:06:57 <warren> kind of need mining nodes =)
49 2013-08-02 00:07:06 <JWU42> warren: yeah
50 2013-08-02 00:07:20 AusBitBank has joined
51 2013-08-02 00:07:23 <JWU42> they had stratum-ming runnign against them (the crashed ones)
52 2013-08-02 00:07:32 <gmaxwell> Mine was running p2pool against it.
53 2013-08-02 00:07:49 <JWU42> be curious to see if Graet's 2 that didn't crash were mining or not
54 2013-08-02 00:07:52 <Graet> version 8990 protocol version 70001, version 80300 protocol version 70001,
55 2013-08-02 00:07:59 <gmaxwell> I guess I'll start a gbt loop, since I don't want to run p2pool against this one in valgrind.
56 2013-08-02 00:08:12 <dbitcoin> I do not think is related to mining, one of my node is not mining, running as backup.
57 2013-08-02 00:08:18 <gmaxwell> Graet: can you get the "Bitcoin version" lines from the debug.logs ?
58 2013-08-02 00:08:26 <JWU42> ok - killed that theory then ;)
59 2013-08-02 00:08:29 <gmaxwell> dbitcoin: one of the crashed ones, just to be clear?
60 2013-08-02 00:08:34 <dbitcoin> yes
61 2013-08-02 00:08:41 <gmaxwell> good.
62 2013-08-02 00:09:30 <dbitcoin> 3 nodes crashed. 2 mining, 1 backup
63 2013-08-02 00:09:55 <Vinnie_win> Any chance anyone knows how I can get clang.exe for windows?
64 2013-08-02 00:10:16 <warren> gmaxwell: for more data points should these folks run 0.8.3 and HEAD on different nodes?
65 2013-08-02 00:10:31 realazthat is now known as pinkee
66 2013-08-02 00:10:50 <gmaxwell> dbitcoin: is there anything running getblocktemplate against the backup one?
67 2013-08-02 00:11:32 <warren> Graet: when was the 8990 built from git?
68 2013-08-02 00:11:34 <gmaxwell> dbitcoin: do you have logs right at the crash? I'd like to see the 5-10 lines before the final "mempool transaction missing input"
69 2013-08-02 00:11:51 <gmaxwell> warren: thats why I asked him for the version line, it will have the commit id in it.
70 2013-08-02 00:12:14 <Graet> i'll get it, but kids due at school in 25mins and i have to help get them ready
71 2013-08-02 00:12:15 <Graet> sorry
72 2013-08-02 00:12:32 <Graet> and not all nodes went down 2 non mining and 3 of 5 mining
73 2013-08-02 00:12:41 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
74 2013-08-02 00:12:45 <Graet> went down\
75 2013-08-02 00:12:50 <warren> good info
76 2013-08-02 00:12:57 <dbitcoin> nope, unfortunately all cleared
77 2013-08-02 00:13:01 <sipa> we have seen that error before, i believe
78 2013-08-02 00:13:15 <sipa> though it was assumed to be related to a wallet problem
79 2013-08-02 00:13:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: no wallet on this node. totally clean.
80 2013-08-02 00:13:57 <gmaxwell> (I mean, there is a wallet file, but its never used and only a couple weeks old)
81 2013-08-02 00:14:01 <sipa> we should remove that assertion probably
82 2013-08-02 00:14:47 <sipa> for merchant purposes you probably prefer crashing over accepting invalid tramsactions
83 2013-08-02 00:14:53 <sipa> but this is in mining code
84 2013-08-02 00:15:08 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
85 2013-08-02 00:15:11 <JWU42> no wallets used on either of my nodes
86 2013-08-02 00:15:19 <JWU42> a file but no tx's
87 2013-08-02 00:15:26 ericmuyser has joined
88 2013-08-02 00:15:33 <sipa> sure
89 2013-08-02 00:15:41 EasyAt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
90 2013-08-02 00:15:45 <gmaxwell> sipa: assertion where?
91 2013-08-02 00:16:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: createnewblock iirc
92 2013-08-02 00:16:03 BenderCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
93 2013-08-02 00:16:25 <gmaxwell> ah ha!
94 2013-08-02 00:16:29 <dbitcoin> ok, found log at one node
95 2013-08-02 00:16:33 <gmaxwell> thats why not many nodes crashed.
96 2013-08-02 00:16:50 * gmaxwell feels dumb for not looking at the code there
97 2013-08-02 00:16:50 <gmaxwell> printf("ERROR: mempool transaction missing input\n");
98 2013-08-02 00:16:54 <gmaxwell> if (fDebug) assert("mempool transaction missing input" == 0);
99 2013-08-02 00:17:13 <sipa> right, it's only an assert in debug mode
100 2013-08-02 00:17:31 <Luke-Jr> that shouldn't be there
101 2013-08-02 00:17:46 <warren> gitian builds have fDebug off?
102 2013-08-02 00:17:46 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
103 2013-08-02 00:17:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: I think crashing when a "This should never happen" happens is right though, enh? we wouldn't want to be mining an invalid block.
104 2013-08-02 00:18:03 <gmaxwell> warren: its a commandline / bitcoin.conf option.
105 2013-08-02 00:18:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: it wouldn't result in an invalid block
106 2013-08-02 00:18:18 <sipa> but it's an inconsistent internal state that shouldn't occur
107 2013-08-02 00:18:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: I mean, mempool corruption indicates something really bad an unexpected has happened.
108 2013-08-02 00:18:33 <gmaxwell> I don't think we can say anything about the state of the world at that point.
109 2013-08-02 00:18:55 <sipa> i think i'll add a mempool consistency check, which gets called on every change to it
110 2013-08-02 00:18:59 <sipa> in debug mode
111 2013-08-02 00:19:38 bmcgee has joined
112 2013-08-02 00:19:47 macboz has joined
113 2013-08-02 00:19:56 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but it SHOULD and DOES happen
114 2013-08-02 00:20:00 <sipa> was there reorg soon before the crash?
115 2013-08-02 00:20:03 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I believe I demonstrated that a long time ago
116 2013-08-02 00:20:15 <sipa> why should it happen?
117 2013-08-02 00:20:17 <gmaxwell> does anyone else have logs of the actual failure? I'm interested in knowing if they happened shortly after getting height=249673
118 2013-08-02 00:20:17 <sipa> we know it does
119 2013-08-02 00:20:34 <gmaxwell> I thought we fixed the reasons it did.
120 2013-08-02 00:20:45 <Luke-Jr> ok, maybe it shouldn't ideally, but it's expected
121 2013-08-02 00:20:51 <sipa> why is it expected?
122 2013-08-02 00:21:20 <Luke-Jr> we bypass checks for transactions added to mempool from reorg'd blocks
123 2013-08-02 00:21:23 <Luke-Jr> or at least used to
124 2013-08-02 00:21:28 <sipa> no we don't do that anymore
125 2013-08-02 00:21:31 <warren> dbitcoin says his bitcoind's were not running in debug mode.
126 2013-08-02 00:21:44 <sipa> then i really want to see a log from him
127 2013-08-02 00:22:08 <warren> Graet should have more details when he gets back...
128 2013-08-02 00:22:15 <dbitcoin> crash log: https://gist.github.com/dbitcoin/6136560
129 2013-08-02 00:22:17 <Luke-Jr> sipa: do we make sure that when we expire tx from mempool, that we remove everything that depends on them?
130 2013-08-02 00:22:39 eculver_ has left ()
131 2013-08-02 00:22:45 <warren> Perhaps the assert error crash should print out version and git hash too?
132 2013-08-02 00:22:48 <gmaxwell> dbitcoin: that sure looks like it had debug=1
133 2013-08-02 00:22:52 Eiii has joined
134 2013-08-02 00:22:52 Eiii has quit (Changing host)
135 2013-08-02 00:22:52 Eiii has joined
136 2013-08-02 00:23:05 eculver has joined
137 2013-08-02 00:23:08 <gmaxwell> the stupid assert itself only outputs to the console I think.
138 2013-08-02 00:24:13 <sipa> Luke-Jr: yes, since 0.8
139 2013-08-02 00:24:17 <dbitcoin> probably. it's default compilation, except upnp
140 2013-08-02 00:24:33 <sipa> dbitcoin: has nothing to do with compilation
141 2013-08-02 00:24:35 digitalmagus2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
142 2013-08-02 00:24:46 <gmaxwell> dbitcoin: look in your bitcoin.conf do you have a debug=1 or your commandline, -debug=1
143 2013-08-02 00:24:50 <sipa> dbitcoin: it's -debug on the command line or config file
144 2013-08-02 00:24:54 <dbitcoin> nope
145 2013-08-02 00:25:18 <gmaxwell> well, still possible that whatever triggered the @#$@ed up state crashed it.
146 2013-08-02 00:25:46 <sipa> or more likely, the createnewblock code cannot deal with the missing case anymore
147 2013-08-02 00:25:51 <sipa> actually
148 2013-08-02 00:26:09 <sipa> when we disconnect a block, we try to move its transactions to the mempool
149 2013-08-02 00:26:15 <sipa> but those that fail to be added
150 2013-08-02 00:26:18 <dbitcoin> I never use debug=1 option
151 2013-08-02 00:26:22 <sipa> as they need to pass standardness checks
152 2013-08-02 00:26:36 <sipa> mean that they can have dependencies lingering
153 2013-08-02 00:27:01 <sipa> i don't think we deal with that case
154 2013-08-02 00:27:23 <warren> disconnect == reorg?
155 2013-08-02 00:27:26 <sipa> yes
156 2013-08-02 00:27:38 <gmaxwell> I did have a reorg the block before the last one
157 2013-08-02 00:27:43 <sipa> a disconnect only happens during reorgs (or during startup consistency check)
158 2013-08-02 00:27:53 <warren> so by not crashing, those other nodes didn't need to reorg due to different timing?
159 2013-08-02 00:28:02 <sipa> or where not mining
160 2013-08-02 00:28:09 <sipa> or had a different mempool
161 2013-08-02 00:28:19 <sipa> that didn't have the dependenciea in the first place
162 2013-08-02 00:28:22 _jps_ has joined
163 2013-08-02 00:28:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: http://pastebin.com/mS6i06zT
164 2013-08-02 00:28:44 pinkee is now known as realazthat
165 2013-08-02 00:28:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: the reports claim that some of the crashers were not mining.
166 2013-08-02 00:29:23 ThomasV has joined
167 2013-08-02 00:29:38 <sipa> the disconnect + many nonstandards point towards incorrect disconnect
168 2013-08-02 00:29:45 <warren> can replaying that reorg reproduce it?
169 2013-08-02 00:29:52 <sipa> probably not
170 2013-08-02 00:30:05 <sipa> as it need interaction with a mempool
171 2013-08-02 00:30:23 <sipa> non miners crashing seems very strange...
172 2013-08-02 00:30:45 <sipa> i don't think anything else checks mempool inputs
173 2013-08-02 00:31:03 _jps has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
174 2013-08-02 00:31:03 _jps_ is now known as _jps
175 2013-08-02 00:31:21 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
176 2013-08-02 00:31:21 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
177 2013-08-02 00:31:27 <gmaxwell> are there any other cases where we call createblock? like.. as a side effect of getting the difficulty in getinfo or something?
178 2013-08-02 00:31:38 wiretapped has joined
179 2013-08-02 00:31:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: good question
180 2013-08-02 00:33:10 random_cat has joined
181 2013-08-02 00:33:27 <warren> could we have a circular log of all mempool changes, so mempool state and the past N changes are dumped upon crash?
182 2013-08-02 00:33:32 <dbitcoin> gmaxwell: actually looks like my backup node also start mining, and then also crashed (10 seconds later)
183 2013-08-02 00:33:48 <petertodd> I can confirm I have a crashed node fwiw
184 2013-08-02 00:33:56 <warren> petertodd: mining?
185 2013-08-02 00:34:01 <petertodd> warren: yup
186 2013-08-02 00:34:04 <Luke-Jr> nodes don't start mining on their own O.o
187 2013-08-02 00:34:08 <dbitcoin> stratum daemon just switched to this node
188 2013-08-02 00:34:09 owowo has joined
189 2013-08-02 00:34:16 <petertodd> warren: p2pool to be exact
190 2013-08-02 00:34:28 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: failover.
191 2013-08-02 00:34:34 <gmaxwell> Good. Thats helpful.
192 2013-08-02 00:34:40 <petertodd> I have -debug logs too
193 2013-08-02 00:34:49 <warren> petertodd: p2pool still uses only getwork?
194 2013-08-02 00:34:58 <Luke-Jr> warren: ⦠no
195 2013-08-02 00:34:59 <petertodd> warren: nah, getblocktemplate
196 2013-08-02 00:35:06 <warren> ok
197 2013-08-02 00:35:09 <Luke-Jr> *nothing* uses getwork anymore, afaik
198 2013-08-02 00:35:17 * Luke-Jr wonders if we can finally just remove it
199 2013-08-02 00:35:30 <sipa> if the problem is only what i think it is, you need a block that contains non-standard transactions being reorganized away, while the mempool has transactions spending their outputs
200 2013-08-02 00:35:46 <sipa> if it is just that, it should be easy to fox, but perhaps hard to test
201 2013-08-02 00:36:08 <petertodd> huh, what was the non-std tx then?
202 2013-08-02 00:36:16 <sipa> many dust txn
203 2013-08-02 00:36:22 <petertodd> ah, boring
204 2013-08-02 00:36:32 <warren> oh, < 5640?
205 2013-08-02 00:36:36 <sipa> yes
206 2013-08-02 00:36:36 <warren> 5460 or whatever
207 2013-08-02 00:36:47 <sipa> reason doesn't matter
208 2013-08-02 00:36:58 <sipa> what matters is that they fail to migrate to the mempool
209 2013-08-02 00:37:00 cads has joined
210 2013-08-02 00:37:19 <gmaxwell> could be non-canonical sigs, >0.01 BTC without fee, etc any reason.
211 2013-08-02 00:37:39 <petertodd> sipa: right, and we don't remove them from the mempool? I thought we did that - I mean I was just looking at that code a month ago...
212 2013-08-02 00:38:13 <sipa> petertodd: we do remove conflicts, when adding
213 2013-08-02 00:38:25 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
214 2013-08-02 00:38:35 c0rw1n has joined
215 2013-08-02 00:38:37 <petertodd> sipa: ah, but we don't remove the conflicts if it doesn't get added?
216 2013-08-02 00:38:41 <sipa> wait, no
217 2013-08-02 00:39:02 <sipa> when we connect a block, and that block has transactions that conflict with the mempool, they are removed from it (recursively)
218 2013-08-02 00:39:18 <petertodd> right
219 2013-08-02 00:39:25 <sipa> but when we disconnect a block, and that block had transactions that can't be added to the mempool, we don't remove their dependencies
220 2013-08-02 00:39:48 <petertodd> right, because we assume they'll be added to the mempool
221 2013-08-02 00:39:53 <gmaxwell> I wonder if on disconnect we shouldn't just readd the whole mempool or something.
222 2013-08-02 00:40:04 <petertodd> I remember we had this discussion, and we couldn't agree on whether or not adding non-std was a good thing
223 2013-08-02 00:40:44 <petertodd> in any case, not removing mempool stuff immediately makes the mempool code quite a bit more complex because of the possibility of mempool tx's that are orphans
224 2013-08-02 00:41:01 <warren> If insufficient fee is the reason to reject from mempool, then it can fail with a previously valid free tx when the mempool already has > 27KB priority tx. Pretty much the bug that I complained about earlier. It should accept such tx but not mine them while > 27KB is exceeded.
225 2013-08-02 00:41:07 <sipa> well the point is that the mempool should never contain orphans
226 2013-08-02 00:41:16 <gmaxwell> warren: gah warren it has nothing to do with that.
227 2013-08-02 00:41:33 <warren> "<gmaxwell> could be non-canonical sigs, >0.01 BTC without fee, etc any reason."
228 2013-08-02 00:41:33 <petertodd> sipa: exactly, but unless we take gmaxwell's approach at some point it iwll
229 2013-08-02 00:41:54 <sipa> what is gmaxwell's approach?
230 2013-08-02 00:42:00 <sipa> ah
231 2013-08-02 00:42:07 <gmaxwell> the >0.01 btc without fee is a non-standardness rule, those are all non-standardness rules. Nor miner transaction selection things.
232 2013-08-02 00:42:08 <petertodd> sipa: re-add the whole mempool to start from scratch
233 2013-08-02 00:42:15 <sipa> it's very easy... if a mempool add on disconnect fails, remove its dependencies
234 2013-08-02 00:42:24 <sipa> there's already code for doing recursive removes from it
235 2013-08-02 00:42:37 <warren> gmaxwell: I'm just saying this is another example where the mempool accept() criteria is failing.
236 2013-08-02 00:42:59 <petertodd> sipa: hmm... reasonable, still leaves the theoretical problem, but that's probably ok
237 2013-08-02 00:43:28 <warren> I heard the reason for it being that way before was to stop DoS, fine, but tx's from a block during reorg is not a flood of tx's from the network.
238 2013-08-02 00:43:31 <gmaxwell> warren: it's not. NOTHING in IsStandard checks the any sum.
239 2013-08-02 00:43:55 * warren looks at code
240 2013-08-02 00:46:05 <petertodd> hmm... do we think all affected nodes fails simultaneously?
241 2013-08-02 00:46:19 normanrichards has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
242 2013-08-02 00:46:44 <petertodd> looking at the p2pool rate graph there is a sharpish decline right around when my node failed - be interesting if that was why
243 2013-08-02 00:46:46 <gmaxwell> petertodd: dbitcoin's backup node failed slightly later when the failover happened, but perhaps it was just when it got the block.
244 2013-08-02 00:46:53 <gmaxwell> petertodd: oh probably.
245 2013-08-02 00:47:08 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I mean. uh. thats probably just me _alone_.
246 2013-08-02 00:47:15 <petertodd> gmaxwell: lol
247 2013-08-02 00:47:37 <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, 1.5TH/s drop, that'd be you
248 2013-08-02 00:47:38 * petertodd ducks
249 2013-08-02 00:47:47 <gmaxwell> oh that much? well no. lol
250 2013-08-02 00:47:52 <warren> why only 1.5TH?
251 2013-08-02 00:47:52 <petertodd> kidding
252 2013-08-02 00:48:00 <gmaxwell> I don't have p2pool up right now so I can't see it.
253 2013-08-02 00:48:00 <warren> are there lots of old version nodes still mining?
254 2013-08-02 00:48:16 <petertodd> nah, it's a 0.5TH/s drop, roughly, maybe 1TH/s
255 2013-08-02 00:48:25 <gmaxwell> warren: not everyone would have died.
256 2013-08-02 00:48:37 Neozonz is now known as Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Neozonz
257 2013-08-02 00:48:50 <warren> hmm, 0.8.3 was prior to the commit that printed reason or non-standard reject
258 2013-08-02 00:48:51 <petertodd> there's kinda a 0.5TH/s drop, followed by another 0.5TH/s drop maybe an hour later, hard to know what it means though
259 2013-08-02 00:48:59 <warren> for*
260 2013-08-02 00:49:06 <gmaxwell> only if they saw the reorg and only if they had the conflicts in mempool and maybe only if they had debug=1 though perhaps debug=0 might have just gotten some silent screwyness in their mempool that may or may not have caused a crash
261 2013-08-02 00:49:30 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
262 2013-08-02 00:49:37 <sipa> createnewblock is only called from mining code
263 2013-08-02 00:49:42 <michagogo> Is this the kind of bug that warrants a fast-tracked release?
264 2013-08-02 00:49:45 <petertodd> hmm, my crashed node didn't see the reorg, though I did get:
265 2013-08-02 00:49:47 <gmaxwell> michagogo: nah.
266 2013-08-02 00:49:51 <petertodd> force request: block 000000000000003d83ba9beb36d3642df1165bd070abc74aacd180262b595881
267 2013-08-02 00:49:59 <gmaxwell> michagogo: probably not.
268 2013-08-02 00:50:09 <petertodd> michagogo: easier to just run your node in a while True; ./bitcoind loop
269 2013-08-02 00:50:11 <sipa> petertodd: it did not see the reorg?
270 2013-08-02 00:50:13 <petertodd> (or whatever bash syntax is)
271 2013-08-02 00:50:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: I think current evidence says all crashed nodes were mining.
272 2013-08-02 00:50:26 <petertodd> sipa: nope
273 2013-08-02 00:50:27 <gmaxwell> petertodd: you sure it didn't? look further up.
274 2013-08-02 00:50:38 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I didn't crash at the disconnect I crashed at a later block
275 2013-08-02 00:50:39 metabyte_ is now known as metabyte
276 2013-08-02 00:51:03 <michagogo> petertodd: while true; do ./bitcoind; done
277 2013-08-02 00:51:08 hellome has joined
278 2013-08-02 00:51:10 <petertodd> oh, never mind, no I did see it, and yeah, it was above the actual crash
279 2013-08-02 00:51:41 <gmaxwell> this sounds like something pull tester could be testing.
280 2013-08-02 00:51:54 <warren> did anyone look into what were those non-standard tx?
281 2013-08-02 00:52:03 <warren> (I know it doesn't matter, just curious.)
282 2013-08-02 00:52:16 <sipa> this patch for 0.8.3 *may* fix it: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/21ed7159aab10c7b08618358149f5691a71f054a
283 2013-08-02 00:52:27 <sipa> (entirely untested, apart from compiling)
284 2013-08-02 00:52:49 <sipa> warren: dust
285 2013-08-02 00:52:58 fronti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
286 2013-08-02 00:53:29 <gmaxwell> warren: the reasons are right there in the log: http://pastebin.com/mS6i06zT
287 2013-08-02 00:53:49 <petertodd> huh, I wish I had one of my mempool rewrite nodes running; I rewrote ::remove() and SetBestChain() had changes as well IIRC
288 2013-08-02 00:53:56 <warren> ah, missed this log
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291 2013-08-02 00:55:49 <sipa> petertodd: you'll hate my headers-first patch...
292 2013-08-02 00:56:08 <sipa> (or i will hate your mempool patch)
293 2013-08-02 00:56:37 <petertodd> sipa: heh, I fully accept that my mempool patch is more of a proof-of-concept and will have to be endlessly rebased :)
294 2013-08-02 00:56:54 <petertodd> sipa: It's stupidly invasive frankly, by the very nature of what it's trying to do...
295 2013-08-02 00:57:06 <sipa> well so is headers-first syncing :)
296 2013-08-02 00:57:11 <gmaxwell> while we're talking about mempool, do we know of any remaining mempool 'leaks'?
297 2013-08-02 00:57:37 <petertodd> gmaxwell: memleaks?
298 2013-08-02 00:57:47 <sipa> pool leaks?
299 2013-08-02 00:58:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: if there were any, we'd see that assert/error
300 2013-08-02 00:58:25 <sipa> i think
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302 2013-08-02 00:59:16 <gmaxwell> I've noticed the gbt latency graphs on p2p slowly climbing over a week, goes back after a restart.
303 2013-08-02 00:59:53 <sipa> that may just be the nature/linkedness of transactions happening on the network changing
304 2013-08-02 01:00:01 Lolcust has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
305 2013-08-02 01:01:19 <petertodd> dunno I see much of a trend re: GBT on my node, on the other hand I run with unusually restrictive mempool rules (reject < 0.001BTC/KB)
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311 2013-08-02 01:05:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'll startup with your patch in valgrind and sleep on it, we're probably going to need to make a reproduction to call this fixed.
312 2013-08-02 01:06:17 roconnor has joined
313 2013-08-02 01:06:51 <petertodd> gmaxwell: repro would be really nice - I have so few test cases for my mempool rewrite :(
314 2013-08-02 01:07:23 <gmaxwell> didn't bluematt just add some mempool tests to his blocktester? sounds like this is pretty similar.
315 2013-08-02 01:07:42 <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, a few, not too many though
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319 2013-08-02 01:08:19 <petertodd> gmaxwell: not a big rush for me anyway, mempool is a long-term thing, semi design exercise
320 2013-08-02 01:10:20 <gmaxwell> node is grinding
321 2013-08-02 01:10:22 * gmaxwell bed
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326 2013-08-02 01:17:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: unusual to see you say that!
327 2013-08-02 01:17:31 * sipa imagines all westcoasters to be ever-awake
328 2013-08-02 01:17:51 <petertodd> sipa: well that *is* where Starbucks came from...
329 2013-08-02 01:17:57 <Luke-Jr> we can't even reproduce the May15 hardfork :|
330 2013-08-02 01:18:32 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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335 2013-08-02 01:19:41 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: It's no wonder alt-coins haven't been attacked with it!
336 2013-08-02 01:21:23 <gavinandresen> ⦠catching up on the discussion: so executive summary is it looks like the crashes are a once-in-a-blue-moon bug and not an attack
337 2013-08-02 01:21:43 <petertodd> gavinandresen: correct, and an attack with them would be expensive
338 2013-08-02 01:21:51 msvb-lab has joined
339 2013-08-02 01:22:06 <petertodd> gavinandresen: my advice to someone in private was while True; do ./bitcoin done is fine
340 2013-08-02 01:22:11 <gavinandresen> ok, good. Those are my favourite type of attack
341 2013-08-02 01:22:26 <petertodd> gavinandresen: what about attacks that require paying you?
342 2013-08-02 01:22:31 msvb-lab has quit (Client Quit)
343 2013-08-02 01:22:36 <gavinandresen> haven't had any of those yet
344 2013-08-02 01:22:48 * petertodd is going to drown gavin in money
345 2013-08-02 01:23:09 <gavinandresen> good thing I know how to swim
346 2013-08-02 01:23:21 * petertodd very light money
347 2013-08-02 01:24:26 <warren> petertodd: make it non-standard money.
348 2013-08-02 01:24:48 <k9quaint> make it money made of mercury
349 2013-08-02 01:24:59 <k9quaint> very difficult to swim in because of it's density
350 2013-08-02 01:25:57 <petertodd> k9quaint: um... yeah, you kinda just bob on top of it and can paddle your way out of harms way...
351 2013-08-02 01:25:59 <k9quaint> and if he doesn't wear a protective suit, you get to keep his stuff
352 2013-08-02 01:26:19 <warren> good luck guessing his passphrase
353 2013-08-02 01:26:31 <k9quaint> its probably 'asdf'
354 2013-08-02 01:26:34 <petertodd> "12345 Why that's the password on my luggage!"
355 2013-08-02 01:27:38 <warren> petertodd: alt coins with very little hash rate can be attacked with this non-standard tx reorg crasher quite easily.
356 2013-08-02 01:27:50 <petertodd> warren: tru
357 2013-08-02 01:27:54 <petertodd> *true
358 2013-08-02 01:28:03 <petertodd> warren: although they can be attacked in so many ways...
359 2013-08-02 01:28:10 <petertodd> warren: I will agree it is a nasty multiplier though
360 2013-08-02 01:28:14 <warren> yeah, gotta wonder why they have users.
361 2013-08-02 01:28:19 <petertodd> Hope
362 2013-08-02 01:28:33 <k9quaint> hope & btc-e fun times
363 2013-08-02 01:28:40 <petertodd> As I said elsewhere, miners really should be designed that if their local bitcoind dies they mine empty blocks to keep the hash rate up.
364 2013-08-02 01:28:49 <petertodd> Better to have empty blocks that re-org attacks.
365 2013-08-02 01:29:33 <warren> petertodd: FTC's time travel attack on an extremely common pool software flaw caused most of their pools to fail simultaneously, allowing a massive reorg attack to be very cheap. 72 block reorg.
366 2013-08-02 01:30:11 <petertodd> warren: There's another good example of why.
367 2013-08-02 01:30:33 <warren> something massive happened to TRC recently, although I didn't look into it
368 2013-08-02 01:30:37 <petertodd> warren: There's disadvantages too, don't get me wrong, but it's probably the better of two bad options. :(
369 2013-08-02 01:30:45 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
370 2013-08-02 01:31:44 <warren> both were enabled by their difficulty "fixes" and time travel attacks
371 2013-08-02 01:32:28 <michagogo> time travel attacks?
372 2013-08-02 01:36:42 <sipa> the type that requires a flux capacitor
373 2013-08-02 01:36:50 <sipa> (or playing with timestamps)
374 2013-08-02 01:37:22 <petertodd> (which requires a flux capacitor or hashing power, or at least should have...)
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377 2013-08-02 01:42:44 <sipa> ok, i write a consistency check for the mempool that compiles
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381 2013-08-02 01:56:50 <Graet> gmaxwell, i know u went, sorry its late Bitcoin version v0.8.3.0-g40809ae-beta () mining node Bitcoin version v0.8.2-40-g3d66111-dirty-beta (2013-05-31 07:26:44 -0700) non-mining node that also crashed
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384 2013-08-02 01:57:44 <sipa> Graet: what kind of RPCs do you run against the non-mining node?
385 2013-08-02 01:58:19 <Graet> we pull data for block stats
386 2013-08-02 01:58:30 <Graet> confirms, amount etc
387 2013-08-02 01:58:41 <sipa> do you have logs for that one?
388 2013-08-02 01:59:32 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
389 2013-08-02 01:59:41 bmcgee has joined
390 2013-08-02 01:59:50 <sipa> i need sleep; i'll hear it later
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392 2013-08-02 02:00:11 <Graet> i'll pastebin and link you sipa
393 2013-08-02 02:00:14 <michagogo> [04:36:14] <sipa> (or playing with timestamps)
394 2013-08-02 02:00:15 <Graet> cheers, rest well
395 2013-08-02 02:00:27 <michagogo> Would that include mining with a system clock set 20 mins ahead?
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451 2013-08-02 03:04:06 <warren> TheUni: please ping me when you're around
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454 2013-08-02 03:07:19 <TheUni> pong
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472 2013-08-02 03:36:40 <jgarzik> TheUni, what's left, on autotools? Would like to merge that.
473 2013-08-02 03:36:56 <TheUni> jgarzik: still quite a bit i'm afraid
474 2013-08-02 03:37:07 <TheUni> i have lots of work done locally
475 2013-08-02 03:37:22 nethershaw has joined
476 2013-08-02 03:37:33 <TheUni> I'm a bachelor this weekend, hoping to get it knocked out then
477 2013-08-02 03:38:08 <jgarzik> heh
478 2013-08-02 03:38:09 <jgarzik> cool
479 2013-08-02 03:38:21 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
480 2013-08-02 03:38:57 <TheUni> jgarzik: mind if i shoot you a pm?
481 2013-08-02 03:40:35 gritball has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
482 2013-08-02 03:40:58 brson has joined
483 2013-08-02 03:41:04 <Luke-Jr> I thought autotools was ready :<
484 2013-08-02 03:41:17 PRab has joined
485 2013-08-02 03:42:26 TheSeven has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
486 2013-08-02 03:43:30 <jgarzik> TheUni, sure
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491 2013-08-02 03:48:18 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I'd like to merge the payment protocol before autotools
492 2013-08-02 03:48:40 brson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
493 2013-08-02 03:49:03 <gavinandresen> it'll require changes to auto tools, because of the new protocol buffer dependency
494 2013-08-02 03:49:07 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
495 2013-08-02 03:49:12 brson has joined
496 2013-08-02 03:54:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, as you like, but I don't think it's a big deal either way. if autotools came first, it would be a couple lines addition to configure.ac and Makefile.am
497 2013-08-02 03:56:23 <gavinandresen> ok. Given how much work it was to tweak gitian and mingw to do all the right things, I doubt it is just a couple lines of code, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised
498 2013-08-02 03:56:45 <TheUni> gavinandresen: can you point me to the work that was required?
499 2013-08-02 03:57:22 <gavinandresen> TheUni: sure, one sec
500 2013-08-02 03:57:45 <gavinandresen> TheUni: it is all part of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2539
501 2013-08-02 03:58:38 <gavinandresen> In particular, the changes to bitcoin-qt.pro and the addition of share/qt/protobuf.pri to use protoc as another compiler
502 2013-08-02 03:59:57 <TheUni> that's no problem, we already do the same thing to generate all of the qt files
503 2013-08-02 04:00:04 <gavinandresen> The gitian changes were to compile a native protoc, that is then used during cross-compiling (but building a target protobuf library that is linked against)
504 2013-08-02 04:00:44 <TheUni> i'm going to go ahead and guess that protoc has zero buildsystem smarts?
505 2013-08-02 04:01:19 <TheUni> wow, autotools. I take that back :)
506 2013-08-02 04:02:44 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
507 2013-08-02 04:02:56 <gavinandresen> The other would-have-been-easy-if-I-knew-how-but-was-hard change required was compiling Qt with -openssl-linked, so QtNetwork uses static openssl libraries
508 2013-08-02 04:03:32 <gavinandresen> In hindsight, it might have been easier to just modify the Windows installer to ship openssl DLLs
509 2013-08-02 04:03:39 <Luke-Jr> probably smaller too
510 2013-08-02 04:03:57 * Luke-Jr wonders if ld is smart enough to identify duplicated static libs
511 2013-08-02 04:04:20 <TheUni> Luke-Jr: not static libs, static object files
512 2013-08-02 04:04:29 <gavinandresen> QtNetwork.a with -openssl-linked doesn't have the openssl .a's in it (I don't think)
513 2013-08-02 04:04:30 <TheUni> it'll drop static functions with lto
514 2013-08-02 04:04:48 <Luke-Jr> TheUni: but LTO isn't safe yet?
515 2013-08-02 04:04:55 <Luke-Jr> or is that just Gentoo being paranoid on me?
516 2013-08-02 04:05:12 <TheUni> Luke-Jr: i've had good luck with it in >=4.7
517 2013-08-02 04:05:17 <gavinandresen> -static-linked just tells Qt not to go trying to dlopen at runtime
518 2013-08-02 04:05:25 <Luke-Jr> TheUni: our Windows builds use like 4.2 :/
519 2013-08-02 04:05:32 <TheUni> gc-sections can be used as well
520 2013-08-02 04:05:33 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: ah
521 2013-08-02 04:05:45 <TheUni> gavinandresen: ok, thanks. i should be able to adapt your work easy enough i think
522 2013-08-02 04:06:17 <gavinandresen> TheUni: great!
523 2013-08-02 04:06:23 <gavinandresen> I don't know nuthin about autotools....
524 2013-08-02 04:06:26 <TheUni> gavinandresen: .a's don't link with other .a's
525 2013-08-02 04:06:37 <TheUni> that's basically why libtool was created
526 2013-08-02 04:07:01 <TheUni> it's your responsibility to keep the dependency chain and link them all into the final object
527 2013-08-02 04:07:43 <TheUni> so if you built a static qt with a static openssl, you'd have to link them both into the final .exe
528 2013-08-02 04:07:56 Application has joined
529 2013-08-02 04:10:03 <jgarzik> SIGH
530 2013-08-02 04:10:15 <jgarzik> oh good grief. The wiki is infected with AGPL code, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#getblocks
531 2013-08-02 04:10:39 <jgarzik> when our MIT/X11-licensed code is also available
532 2013-08-02 04:11:16 <jgarzik> Which is better? (a) reference implementation, liberal license or (b) not reference implementation, more restrictive license
533 2013-08-02 04:13:14 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
534 2013-08-02 04:14:19 CodeShark has joined
535 2013-08-02 04:14:23 * Luke-Jr noted that a number of months ago <.<
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542 2013-08-02 04:24:50 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, that is a lot cleaner ...
543 2013-08-02 04:24:57 <phantomcircuit> iirc there used to be pseudo code for that somewhere
544 2013-08-02 04:30:27 <jgarzik> sipa, Following up on a forum post, that jogged a memory.
545 2013-08-02 04:30:44 <jgarzik> sipa, Did the creation of CBlockHeader change the binary output of the "headers" message?
546 2013-08-02 04:32:40 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
547 2013-08-02 04:32:51 <jgarzik> sipa, Looking at v0.4.0, it appears to me like we serialize a CBlock, thus including a vtx==0 trailing varint
548 2013-08-02 04:32:59 <jgarzik> sipa, but with CBlockHeader, that seems absent.
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550 2013-08-02 04:34:18 ThomasV has joined
551 2013-08-02 04:34:48 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, does it really matter?
552 2013-08-02 04:34:56 <jgarzik> sipa, vHeaders and "headers" message never set SER_BLOCKHEADERONLY
553 2013-08-02 04:35:32 brson has joined
554 2013-08-02 04:35:36 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, Sure. You read garbage after the first header, if you miss this detail, on certain new versions of bitcoind.
555 2013-08-02 04:36:19 <phantomcircuit> afaik there aren't any listening 0.4.0 nodes
556 2013-08-02 04:36:51 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, This is a very recent change. Replace 0.4.0 with 0.7.0 if you like.
557 2013-08-02 04:36:55 <jgarzik> maybe even 0.8.09
558 2013-08-02 04:36:59 <jgarzik> 0.8.0
559 2013-08-02 04:37:22 <phantomcircuit> ah
560 2013-08-02 04:37:37 saivann has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
561 2013-08-02 04:37:39 <phantomcircuit> i was thinking you mean actually 0.4.0
562 2013-08-02 04:37:45 <phantomcircuit> which would have been a bit pedantic :)
563 2013-08-02 04:37:58 <jgarzik> Change merged Nov 24, 2012.
564 2013-08-02 04:38:15 <jgarzik> pull req #2013
565 2013-08-02 04:38:34 <phantomcircuit> so you'd end up with corrupted headers entries
566 2013-08-02 04:38:41 <phantomcircuit> after the first one
567 2013-08-02 04:38:42 <jgarzik> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2013
568 2013-08-02 04:38:47 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
569 2013-08-02 04:38:52 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, correct
570 2013-08-02 04:39:01 <phantomcircuit> or if you were being smart you'd hit an assert verifying that txn_count == 0
571 2013-08-02 04:39:38 <jgarzik> canary values are not always tripped by garbage data, especially with extra bits are zero-initialized ;p
572 2013-08-02 04:39:41 <jgarzik> but I get the point
573 2013-08-02 04:42:11 wamatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
574 2013-08-02 04:42:32 _jps has quit (Quit: _jps)
575 2013-08-02 04:43:11 saivann has joined
576 2013-08-02 04:43:49 yubrew_ has joined
577 2013-08-02 04:44:38 <phantomcircuit> i should scan the bitcoin network again for versions
578 2013-08-02 04:46:07 <Luke-Jr> wow, 0.8.x has almost taken over the whole network already
579 2013-08-02 04:46:20 wamatt has joined
580 2013-08-02 04:46:49 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
581 2013-08-02 04:48:04 Diablo-D3 has joined
582 2013-08-02 04:49:26 * jgarzik is writing an SPV client in node.js (BitPay likes node.js), and is dealing with this and bloom filter issue
583 2013-08-02 04:49:46 <jgarzik> from SPV client perspective, it would be useful to simply assume public nodes are >= 0.8.1 or whatever......
584 2013-08-02 04:50:38 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, just run your own local bitcoind node and only do spv stuff with it
585 2013-08-02 04:50:45 <phantomcircuit> that's actually what im doing :/
586 2013-08-02 04:51:01 IanCormac has quit (Quit: IanCormac)
587 2013-08-02 04:51:34 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, initial results suggest that the vast majority of the network is 0.8.1/0.8.3
588 2013-08-02 04:53:18 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
589 2013-08-02 04:54:47 <phantomcircuit> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Q7CiaUXc
590 2013-08-02 04:54:49 <phantomcircuit> initial results
591 2013-08-02 04:55:18 Neozonz has joined
592 2013-08-02 04:55:18 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@198-84-245-103.cpe.teksavvy.com|Changing host)
593 2013-08-02 04:55:18 Neozonz has joined
594 2013-08-02 04:55:37 NimeshNeema has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
595 2013-08-02 04:56:10 brson has joined
596 2013-08-02 04:56:25 jordandotdev has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
597 2013-08-02 04:56:32 <jgarzik> OK
598 2013-08-02 04:57:10 <jgarzik> The CBlockHeader merge 7818d230a first appeared in v0.8.0.
599 2013-08-02 04:57:30 brson has quit (Client Quit)
600 2013-08-02 04:57:55 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
601 2013-08-02 04:58:00 brson_ has joined
602 2013-08-02 04:58:02 <jgarzik> So, "headers" response is different for <= 0.7.2 and >= 0.8.0
603 2013-08-02 04:58:18 Neozonz has joined
604 2013-08-02 04:58:23 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: but dont we already know thats possible?
605 2013-08-02 04:58:31 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
606 2013-08-02 04:58:31 <Diablo-D3> because of the bdb fuckery
607 2013-08-02 04:58:51 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3, no
608 2013-08-02 04:59:09 <Diablo-D3> so yet another 0.8.x vs earlier issue?
609 2013-08-02 04:59:34 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, did the protocol version change in 0.8.0?
610 2013-08-02 04:59:36 <phantomcircuit> im guessing no
611 2013-08-02 05:00:14 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
612 2013-08-02 05:00:19 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3, yes
613 2013-08-02 05:00:38 Neozonz has joined
614 2013-08-02 05:00:45 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: #goddamnitsomuch
615 2013-08-02 05:01:24 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, yeah actually it did
616 2013-08-02 05:01:25 <phantomcircuit> convenient
617 2013-08-02 05:01:39 <phantomcircuit> protocol version 70001 doesn't have txn_count
618 2013-08-02 05:01:58 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, Yes. Bloom filters were added.
619 2013-08-02 05:02:03 <phantomcircuit> ah right
620 2013-08-02 05:02:07 <jgarzik> protover rev for that
621 2013-08-02 05:02:21 <phantomcircuit> ok so errata that the headers format changed also
622 2013-08-02 05:02:29 imton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
623 2013-08-02 05:02:38 <phantomcircuit> should be easy enough to work around and conveniently means not having to check sub_version
624 2013-08-02 05:03:41 phungus is now known as phungusCPO
625 2013-08-02 05:05:16 imton has joined
626 2013-08-02 05:06:06 phungusCPO is now known as phungus
627 2013-08-02 05:06:09 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html
628 2013-08-02 05:06:31 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: or http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html
629 2013-08-02 05:07:02 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, i assume that includes nodes which connected to you?
630 2013-08-02 05:07:09 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: nope, just listening nodes
631 2013-08-02 05:07:17 <Luke-Jr> nobody connects to bitcoin-seeder nodes (yet)
632 2013-08-02 05:07:40 <phantomcircuit> there's no way there's 45k 0.8.1 nodes...
633 2013-08-02 05:07:53 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: have the list of IPs⦠http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/seeds.txt
634 2013-08-02 05:08:19 <Luke-Jr> holy crap, I sure hope there's something wrong with the graph here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/bestblocks.html
635 2013-08-02 05:08:36 <Luke-Jr> otherwise.. only 18% are on the current best block? :|
636 2013-08-02 05:08:42 <phantomcircuit> firefox is not happy
637 2013-08-02 05:08:52 <Luke-Jr> maybe I need to filter it somehow better
638 2013-08-02 05:08:59 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it's 50 MB
639 2013-08-02 05:11:34 <TheUni> gavinandresen: any ETA for getting the protobuf stuff in?
640 2013-08-02 05:11:57 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: what exactly is that graph of?
641 2013-08-02 05:12:15 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: (best block graph)
642 2013-08-02 05:12:38 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: best block reported by listening nodes. I'm guessing it must be including nodes I haven't connected to in a long time or something :/
643 2013-08-02 05:12:45 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
644 2013-08-02 05:12:59 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: hmm... I thought we didn't tell peers what our best blocks were, only our startingheight
645 2013-08-02 05:13:02 <gavinandresen> TheUni: as soon as I get an ACK or two
646 2013-08-02 05:13:08 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: same thing
647 2013-08-02 05:13:23 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: startingheight = best block at time connection is established
648 2013-08-02 05:13:34 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: right, but what happens with a long-lived peer?
649 2013-08-02 05:13:50 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: something I can easily test on testnet?
650 2013-08-02 05:14:00 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: yes
651 2013-08-02 05:14:03 <TheUni> gavinandresen: ok. just trying to figure out timing for my stuff. sounds like it should sync up nicely.
652 2013-08-02 05:14:08 <TheUni> i'll wait for yours and rebase
653 2013-08-02 05:14:09 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: bitcoin-seeder doesn't do long-lived connections I think
654 2013-08-02 05:15:04 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: hmm... check that - doesn't seem right to me
655 2013-08-02 05:15:07 paracyst has joined
656 2013-08-02 05:15:09 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
657 2013-08-02 05:15:17 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: https://github.com/gavinandresen/QA/blob/master/PaymentRequestTest.md is latest?
658 2013-08-02 05:15:35 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: there's a heck of a lot more peers than there used to be - it's probably just not polling them as often
659 2013-08-02 05:16:03 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
660 2013-08-02 05:16:13 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: compile from the payment request branch or get binaries from the pull-tester...
661 2013-08-02 05:16:28 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: right, just wanted to check I was using the right test plan
662 2013-08-02 05:16:47 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: sounds about right, I just tried restarting a node and my reconnecting incoming peers all have recent block heights
663 2013-08-02 05:16:56 <Luke-Jr> also, I'm planning to test master with paymentrequest merged in..
664 2013-08-02 05:16:58 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: yes, that's the right test plan. If you want extra credit, test over Tor, too
665 2013-08-02 05:17:18 <Luke-Jr> hmm, Tor doesn't like me, but I'll give it a shot
666 2013-08-02 05:17:52 <gavinandresen> â¦. speaking of which, I need to test over Tor, I taught the server-side code to replace $CLIENT_IP in payment messages so I can see what IP address it sees....
667 2013-08-02 05:19:27 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if theymos can get the bitcoin reddit to promote test plans with "paid" ad type stuff
668 2013-08-02 05:20:19 <Diablo-D3> >ads
669 2013-08-02 05:20:19 <Diablo-D3> >reddit
670 2013-08-02 05:20:19 <Diablo-D3> wat
671 2013-08-02 05:20:19 <Luke-Jr> wow, you put bounties on this and it still hasn't been tested? XD
672 2013-08-02 05:20:53 <Luke-Jr> whee, 30 weeks behind on testnet
673 2013-08-02 05:23:16 <gavinandresen> I paid a couple of bounties, but stopped testing because of the openssl-linked issue
674 2013-08-02 05:23:37 <gavinandresen> (then spent a lot of time working that out, then moved to Australia....)
675 2013-08-02 05:25:35 jeewee has joined
676 2013-08-02 05:25:56 <Luke-Jr> hmm
677 2013-08-02 05:26:00 freewil has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
678 2013-08-02 05:26:23 <Luke-Jr> I wonder what happens if I try to use payment protocol on a testnet-in-a-box.. ie, if the merchant has a transaction with invalid-to-them inputs
679 2013-08-02 05:26:40 freewil has joined
680 2013-08-02 05:27:11 <maaku> what does psmisc do and why is it in the deps-win32.yml?
681 2013-08-02 05:27:19 <Luke-Jr> maaku: killall command
682 2013-08-02 05:27:45 <maaku> ah ok thank you
683 2013-08-02 05:29:46 ThomasV has joined
684 2013-08-02 05:31:31 brson_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
685 2013-08-02 05:31:43 brson has joined
686 2013-08-02 05:32:01 saulimus has joined
687 2013-08-02 05:35:31 metabyte has quit ()
688 2013-08-02 05:36:01 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: the payment protocol doesn't affect transaction confirmation/acceptance at all, transactions are still confirmed through the block chain. The demo website code doesn't validate the transaction in the Payment message at all.
689 2013-08-02 05:37:51 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
690 2013-08-02 05:37:52 <Luke-Jr> hmm
691 2013-08-02 05:38:19 <Luke-Jr> for some reason, the link isn't doing anything
692 2013-08-02 05:38:35 <Luke-Jr> just silently exiting
693 2013-08-02 05:38:43 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if my mainnet client is interfering
694 2013-08-02 05:39:11 <Luke-Jr> oh, nope.. manually opening testnet client reveals a bunch of sends in the tab
695 2013-08-02 05:41:18 davec has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
696 2013-08-02 05:42:05 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
697 2013-08-02 05:42:33 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
698 2013-08-02 05:44:43 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: running on Linux?
699 2013-08-02 05:44:59 GordonG3kko has joined
700 2013-08-02 05:45:32 <gavinandresen> ⦠and can you run a stock 0.8.3 and see if clicking on a bitcoin: link behaves the same?
701 2013-08-02 05:46:14 <gavinandresen> (mmm⦠except I'm not sure 0.8.3 handled test net bitcoin: links properly)
702 2013-08-02 05:47:41 <TheUni> gavinandresen: feel free to ping me for issues like openssl link in the future. That's my bread+butter.
703 2013-08-02 05:48:37 <gavinandresen> mmmm⦠bread and butter....
704 2013-08-02 05:49:04 melvster has joined
705 2013-08-02 05:49:18 <TheUni> sounds like your problem is that you were using vegemite instead ;)
706 2013-08-02 05:51:57 <sipa> jgarzik: the headers message doesn't use CBlockHeader but CBlock, specifically for that reason
707 2013-08-02 05:52:13 <sipa> jgarzik: there is even a comment about it in the code
708 2013-08-02 05:52:25 <sipa> jgarzik: does it somehow work differently?
709 2013-08-02 05:53:07 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
710 2013-08-02 05:55:49 arioBarzan has joined
711 2013-08-02 05:57:17 saulimus has joined
712 2013-08-02 05:58:45 <arioBarzan> there is a way better than sipa's one in pull/2861 for adding watch-only addresses. anybody interested to discuss the issue?
713 2013-08-02 06:00:57 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
714 2013-08-02 06:01:23 Neozonz has joined
715 2013-08-02 06:01:23 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@198-84-245-103.cpe.teksavvy.com|Changing host)
716 2013-08-02 06:01:23 Neozonz has joined
717 2013-08-02 06:01:42 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: yes, Linux.
718 2013-08-02 06:01:48 <Luke-Jr> I just found a potential vulnerability :p
719 2013-08-02 06:02:23 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: in the payment request code? cool!
720 2013-08-02 06:02:37 <Luke-Jr> sortof. it's rendering HTML in the PaymentACK message :/
721 2013-08-02 06:03:22 <gavinandresen> I think wumpus mentioned that⦠should be a trivial fix
722 2013-08-02 06:03:29 <Luke-Jr> probably
723 2013-08-02 06:03:46 <Luke-Jr> I think I just crashed my browser trying to do a different one :/
724 2013-08-02 06:07:19 <sipa> arioBarzan: not again, please
725 2013-08-02 06:07:36 <sipa> arioBarzan: if you really dislike it, implement it differently yourself
726 2013-08-02 06:09:02 RoboTeddy has joined
727 2013-08-02 06:10:43 coinkoi has joined
728 2013-08-02 06:11:15 poggy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
729 2013-08-02 06:12:07 <Luke-Jr> yeah, my browser's hung
730 2013-08-02 06:12:08 <Luke-Jr> blah
731 2013-08-02 06:12:44 licnep has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
732 2013-08-02 06:13:09 <d34th> Luke-Jr: pastebin the html?
733 2013-08-02 06:13:17 mariorz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
734 2013-08-02 06:14:34 Benjojo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
735 2013-08-02 06:15:48 mariorz_ has joined
736 2013-08-02 06:20:52 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
737 2013-08-02 06:23:34 <arioBarzan> sipa: I understand your frustration. I don't have intention to bother you again about this specific issue.
738 2013-08-02 06:25:15 <arioBarzan> Thanks to sipa's clarification about his frustration with my recent criticism, I correct myself. is there anybody other than sipa wants to give me a chance to explain a suggestion about the algorithm for watch-only implementation?
739 2013-08-02 06:25:22 <arioBarzan> I told algorithm because although I could write code, that code, I suspect, would not be of a good quality. However that doesn't mean that people like me do not understand the algorithm behind the code.
740 2013-08-02 06:27:44 <gavinandresen> what is the use-case for watch-only addresses that encrypt-with-a-random-password wallets doesn't solve?
741 2013-08-02 06:28:08 <sipa> gavinandresen: it needs you having the private key
742 2013-08-02 06:28:26 <sipa> it doesn't work with p2sh (which now have a crippled wallet detection)
743 2013-08-02 06:28:45 <gavinandresen> sipa: what is the p2sh use case?
744 2013-08-02 06:28:56 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: watch-only makes so much more sense after HD wallets
745 2013-08-02 06:29:14 <sipa> detecting transactions to a p2sh address for which you do not have all keys (but some)
746 2013-08-02 06:29:18 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: see a corporate account?
747 2013-08-02 06:29:27 <sipa> or even none at all, if you do the signing separately
748 2013-08-02 06:30:10 <freewil> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1928
749 2013-08-02 06:30:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm still not seeing the use case. If you want to detect payments to a p2sh address, you need to addmultisigaddress in any case, yes?
750 2013-08-02 06:31:10 <gavinandresen> the wallet doesn't automatically create every combinatorial p2sh address for the addresses in your wallet.....
751 2013-08-02 06:31:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: of course not
752 2013-08-02 06:31:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: but now ismine only works if you have all keys for a multisig
753 2013-08-02 06:31:40 <CodeShark> creating a multisig redeemscript doesn't require private keys
754 2013-08-02 06:31:50 <gavinandresen> rightâ¦.
755 2013-08-02 06:32:01 <sipa> which makes senae
756 2013-08-02 06:32:17 <sipa> but you also want to be able to detect transactions that interest you
757 2013-08-02 06:32:30 <gavinandresen> I'm reacting negatively because I managed to confuse MYSELF with watch-only addresses and blockchain.info
758 2013-08-02 06:32:30 <sipa> even if you can't spend them using the wallet code
759 2013-08-02 06:32:51 <sipa> you may have different means to spend them
760 2013-08-02 06:32:57 <gavinandresen> I added a watch-only blockchain.info address, promptly forgot about it, then was confused when I saw my balance was bigger than I remembered
761 2013-08-02 06:33:05 <CodeShark> in any merchant setting, the transaction processing apps will undoubtedly be different than the apps used to sign from accounts or withdraw bitcoins
762 2013-08-02 06:33:09 <gavinandresen> ⦠so I tried to spend, and was further confused when the "send" failed
763 2013-08-02 06:33:36 <CodeShark> watch-only wallets are a first step towards support for transaction processing
764 2013-08-02 06:33:56 <sipa> well i don't expect that thia will be very gui-integrated
765 2013-08-02 06:33:56 <CodeShark> in a real scalable sense
766 2013-08-02 06:34:10 <gavinandresen> Watch-only wallets I'm all for. Watch-only addressesâ¦.
767 2013-08-02 06:34:11 <sipa> the real solution for that is separate wallets imho
768 2013-08-02 06:34:41 <sipa> i don't think watch-only wallets if viable before we have multiwallet
769 2013-08-02 06:34:49 <gavinandresen> I agree. So back to my original question: is there a compelling use-case that makes you think we need this in the RPC interface now?
770 2013-08-02 06:35:27 <sipa> it's easy, and there is a lot of demand for it
771 2013-08-02 06:35:52 <sipa> our existing interface is artificially crippled to require the private key to be able to watch transactions
772 2013-08-02 06:35:52 <CodeShark> the fact multiwallet haven't been integrated yet was one of the main reasons I've hesitated on 2121
773 2013-08-02 06:36:10 <CodeShark> multiwallet support is more fundamental
774 2013-08-02 06:36:23 <gavinandresen> I see, so the use case is "detect payments"
775 2013-08-02 06:36:27 <sipa> yes
776 2013-08-02 06:36:27 <CodeShark> yes
777 2013-08-02 06:37:06 <arioBarzan> if we had watch-only already implemented, we could add code for sweeping private key of a normal address and essentially make it watch-only.
778 2013-08-02 06:37:11 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: makes life easier for people who have secure offline keys (the encrypt and toss feels pretty unsafe to do), makes them have less reason to depend on not always online websites that already offer the functionality. And its really useful for excercising the wallet code by adding a bunch of random stuff.
779 2013-08-02 06:38:06 <gmaxwell> and, yea, I think it goes hand in hand with multiwallet.. ideally you don't mix spendable and watching wallet stuff.
780 2013-08-02 06:38:16 <gavinandresen> Mmm. Are we imagining people will detect payments with -walletnotify, or list transactions? Or getbalance?
781 2013-08-02 06:38:33 <gavinandresen> If it just affected -walletnotify then I think I'd be more comfortable with the feature
782 2013-08-02 06:38:33 <sipa> either; or listunspent
783 2013-08-02 06:38:51 <freewil> i use listsinceblock
784 2013-08-02 06:38:52 <gmaxwell> listunspent is a lot of my thinking, in fact.
785 2013-08-02 06:38:53 <CodeShark> a subscription protocol would be better than -walletnotify or polling
786 2013-08-02 06:38:54 <gavinandresen> Adding watch-only transactions to get balance makes me VERY nervous
787 2013-08-02 06:39:13 <sipa> walletnotify is useless without a way to query the wallet about it...
788 2013-08-02 06:39:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: how so?
789 2013-08-02 06:39:42 <sipa> i can make getbalance not count watchonly stuff
790 2013-08-02 06:39:55 <gavinandresen> There's probably lots of code that assumes that you can always send getbalance bitcoins
791 2013-08-02 06:39:59 Arnavion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
792 2013-08-02 06:40:04 <gmaxwell> thats kind of why I said goes hand in hand with multiwallet.. mixing is weird. from a code perspective it makes sense that everything should handle the mixed case, but if you're going to mix it would really be good for the balance outputs to be split into watched balance and spendable balance.
793 2013-08-02 06:40:06 <sipa> i doubt that
794 2013-08-02 06:40:09 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
795 2013-08-02 06:40:23 <gmaxwell> external code.
796 2013-08-02 06:40:41 <sipa> creating transactions requests the set of spendable coins, and watxh-only ones are not included there
797 2013-08-02 06:40:46 <gavinandresen> There might be audit code that checks to make sure list-all-transactions-and-sum-up-amounts matches get balance....
798 2013-08-02 06:40:47 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
799 2013-08-02 06:40:48 Arnavion has joined
800 2013-08-02 06:41:12 <gmaxwell> it would with watch.
801 2013-08-02 06:41:19 <gavinandresen> I'm uncomfortable because watch-only transactions might break people's assumptions
802 2013-08-02 06:41:41 <gavinandresen> ⦠and, therefore, break their code in weird, unexpected ways.
803 2013-08-02 06:42:11 <sipa> well yes, things will change of course
804 2013-08-02 06:42:23 <gmaxwell> at least its safe if you do not use it.
805 2013-08-02 06:42:26 <warren> how different is watch-only from locked wallet without passphrase? (sorry dumb question)
806 2013-08-02 06:42:28 <gmaxwell> Nothing changes out from under you.
807 2013-08-02 06:42:37 <sipa> warren: answered that above
808 2013-08-02 06:42:40 <gavinandresen> We can say "if you add a watch-only address, then be careful" , but I just have an uncomfortable feeling that doing the quick&easy thing here will come back to bite us
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811 2013-08-02 06:43:16 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: That all goes away, I think, if we use multiwallet and a wallet is either all or no watch, enh?
812 2013-08-02 06:43:28 <CodeShark> that was the original idea, gmaxwell
813 2013-08-02 06:43:32 <sipa> yeah
814 2013-08-02 06:43:36 <gavinandresen> Conservative thing would be to have -walletnotify tell you about watch-only, and get transaction return them, but no change to other API
815 2013-08-02 06:43:58 <gavinandresen> And that would match "the feature is detecting transactions"
816 2013-08-02 06:44:18 <CodeShark> sipa decided to bring the watch-only address stuff up to date because of the demand for that specific functionality and the fact it is far simpler than the multiwallet stuff
817 2013-08-02 06:44:22 <gmaxwell> that would also make it useless for "I need to gather the data to spend these with an offline signing wallet"
818 2013-08-02 06:44:40 <sipa> if multiwallet was further along, i would suggest to only have watch-only wallets, and only enable importaddress for those
819 2013-08-02 06:44:43 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ?? get transaction / getrawtransaction ??
820 2013-08-02 06:44:56 <gavinandresen> what other data do you need?
821 2013-08-02 06:45:05 <sipa> gettransaction, listtransactions, getbalance "account", listunspent, ...
822 2013-08-02 06:45:22 <CodeShark> it wouldn't take me very long to finish integrating the multiwallet stuff - just been busy with a bunch of other stuff lately
823 2013-08-02 06:45:22 <sipa> are all useful for detecting and creating transactions for which you have keys offline
824 2013-08-02 06:45:50 <CodeShark> I already had working multiwallet implementations for both RPC and Bitcoin-Qt several months ago
825 2013-08-02 06:45:59 <sipa> i know :(
826 2013-08-02 06:46:02 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: what sipa said. hm would your concern be satisfied if only balance were split into two fields? I think that would be fairly straight forward in the current implementation (minus gui impact)
827 2013-08-02 06:46:03 * sipa pokes CodeShark
828 2013-08-02 06:46:48 <sipa> listunspent and validateaddress already distinguish the two cases
829 2013-08-02 06:46:48 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes, that would go a long way
830 2013-08-02 06:47:08 <arioBarzan> gavinandresen: what if people want sweep one specific private key or even never give it to the bitcoind? watch-only would help a lot.
831 2013-08-02 06:47:09 <sipa> that would be easy i think, yes
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833 2013-08-02 06:48:34 <gavinandresen> if old code gets old behaviour I'll be 100% happy
834 2013-08-02 06:48:48 <sipa> it does?
835 2013-08-02 06:48:59 <sipa> old code doesn't call importaddress
836 2013-08-02 06:49:03 <CodeShark> if you never use importaddress, you won't get into trouble
837 2013-08-02 06:49:11 <CodeShark> if you do, you should know what you're doing
838 2013-08-02 06:49:13 <sipa> but i see your point
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840 2013-08-02 06:49:44 <gavinandresen> I mean: old code that calls listunspent or list transactions shouldn't see watch-only. New code can pass an extra flag, or you run with a -watchonly command-line flag, or....
841 2013-08-02 06:49:49 <CodeShark> and yes, mixing watch-only with spendable addresses in a single wallet means less clear usability
842 2013-08-02 06:50:27 <CodeShark> I'll see if I find some time these days to finish integrating 2407
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845 2013-08-02 07:00:06 <arioBarzan> for a spend transaction, it would be nice to prioritize the spendable coins and then if those were enough it would be signed with existing private keys. otherwise it could give us a rawtransaction and then tell "go ahead sign it and send it yourself"
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847 2013-08-02 07:02:00 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: confirmed master testnet does not make itself visible opening URIs
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853 2013-08-02 07:06:56 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: thanks! I didn't change any of that code, so expected it to work the same.
854 2013-08-02 07:07:36 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: and tweaking the GUI for all this will have to wait for somebody who actually knows Qt...
855 2013-08-02 07:08:29 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: it may be possible my window manager is doing some kind of stupidly aggressive focus stealing prevention
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857 2013-08-02 07:08:48 <Luke-Jr> although I have it configured to go easy on stuff :/
858 2013-08-02 07:09:13 <Luke-Jr> lol, actually, it looks like I have focus-stealing prevention disabled entirely
859 2013-08-02 07:09:20 <Luke-Jr> so much for that theory
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873 2013-08-02 07:31:35 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: I like the idea of being able to do that kind of thing, but that requires totally redoing our APIs. I suspect we'll need to make those changes for multiparty wallets too and that should probably drive that change.
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999 2013-08-02 11:26:38 <tgs3> you know the new bitcoin.org page is horribly unusable, right?
1000 2013-08-02 11:27:46 <tgs3> on other projects like debian.org or i2p it takes me 0.5 second on avg to find the download link, with bitcoin.org its 20 sec and counting :)
1001 2013-08-02 11:28:09 <tgs3> not everyone will know that it's on github
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1003 2013-08-02 11:30:35 <sipa> i think the idea is to have bitcoin.org move away from being about the reference implementation, and more about the ecosystem as a whole
1004 2013-08-02 11:30:46 <tgs3> well it blows
1005 2013-08-02 11:31:00 <sipa> feel free to make suggestions
1006 2013-08-02 11:31:05 <gmaxwell> tgs3: make proposed patches.
1007 2013-08-02 11:31:24 <tgs3> + <a href="/en/download/">Download Bitcoin client</a>
1008 2013-08-02 11:31:35 <gmaxwell> I think your commentary blows, but I propose you patch it by submitting and hashing out improvements instead of just complaints. :P
1009 2013-08-02 11:31:37 <sipa> http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
1010 2013-08-02 11:31:48 <tgs3> gmaxwell: already pasted the diff :)
1011 2013-08-02 11:32:32 <sipa> linking to download/ directly would be treating the reference client specially
1012 2013-08-02 11:32:50 <sipa> though i do agree that it's not obvious at all where to find download links in general
1013 2013-08-02 11:33:06 <tgs3> what is bad in linkint to the MAIN client?!
1014 2013-08-02 11:33:23 <gmaxwell> some people prefer that new users be directed to other options instead.
1015 2013-08-02 11:33:52 <gmaxwell> (I leave that as the weasily 'some people' because I don't quite agree, not really being happy with any of the alternatives)
1016 2013-08-02 11:34:09 <tgs3> + <a href="/en/download/">Download Bitcoin reference client</a> or <a href="https://duckduckgo/?q=bitcoin+client+download">Search online for other clients on your own</a>
1017 2013-08-02 11:34:47 <tgs3> also we could link bitcoin.it wiki, and wikipedia, list of bitcoin clients.
1018 2013-08-02 11:34:48 <gmaxwell> You are missing the point there. Bitcoin.org is not supposted to be the reference client.
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1020 2013-08-02 11:35:16 <tgs3> gmaxwell: yes, this point imight be invalid, because users expect it to be.
1021 2013-08-02 11:35:24 <gmaxwell> And the argument that it should be is weakened by the current poor initial expirence with the reference client. If it were made much better we'd have a stronger thing to do there.
1022 2013-08-02 11:35:34 <tgs3> same like users expect to go with skype.com and download "the skype"
1023 2013-08-02 11:35:50 <sipa> tgs3: go to bittorrent.org
1024 2013-08-02 11:35:53 arioBarzan has joined
1025 2013-08-02 11:35:55 <sipa> tgs3: find me a download link
1026 2013-08-02 11:36:02 Subo1978 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1027 2013-08-02 11:36:06 <gmaxwell> tgs3: skype doesn't then sit around unusable for two days, thrashing the computer.. etc.
1028 2013-08-02 11:36:29 <tgs3> sipa: if we are like them, some users will be turned off right at the begining
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1030 2013-08-02 11:36:40 <tgs3> gmaxwell: then make a bounty to fix refclient? :)
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1032 2013-08-02 11:38:29 <sipa> the reference client has a moral obligation to represent the highest security level the system is intended to provide, imho
1033 2013-08-02 11:38:32 <tgs3> can we then link https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Clients
1034 2013-08-02 11:39:00 <tgs3> can we then link https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Clients first, and then "or download Orginal Client that is most reviewed but also less comfortable to use" ?
1035 2013-08-02 11:39:15 <sipa> that's pretty much what the choose your wallet page says
1036 2013-08-02 11:39:27 <tgs3> btw bitcoin.it has mysql connection limit problems
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1040 2013-08-02 11:44:46 <Cylta> What is the name of protocol that able to tranfer data through _sound_? (like in modems). So, speaker from one side and microphone from other side would able to transfer data between computers.
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1045 2013-08-02 11:46:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: agreed in general, but security that "no one" uses is zero.
1046 2013-08-02 11:47:16 <sipa> well, it's not like nobody uses it
1047 2013-08-02 11:47:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: so decisions to not do things to optimize the initial expirence will further result in people being recommended away from the reference software.
1048 2013-08-02 11:47:55 <sipa> oh, i don't mean not optimize (hell, i think i've been contributing to that part significantly...)
1049 2013-08-02 11:47:57 <gmaxwell> I can't believe that there is no way to have our cake and eat it too.
1050 2013-08-02 11:48:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, you're doing all that work. :P I'm just making sure you don't realize how important it is!
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1052 2013-08-02 11:48:23 <gmaxwell> er you don't not realize how not not important it is.
1053 2013-08-02 11:48:43 <sipa> but if it turns out to be incompatible with the convenience required by some portion of users, we shouldn't compromise
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1055 2013-08-02 11:50:49 <gmaxwell> Right. Though there are degrees. For example, if your choice is {multibit} or {native client that starts as SPV and becomes full} the later is clearly superior if it exists. If we don't have a way to do the second, people will get the first instead.
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1057 2013-08-02 11:51:11 <gmaxwell> and thats ashame if the only thing driving that decision is the initial time to startup time.
1058 2013-08-02 11:53:03 <gmaxwell> we see these tradeoffs all over, we'd prefer there be no addr index even optionally available because it causes people to build unscalable things, but the alternative is a lot of people depending on a single website otherwise.
1059 2013-08-02 11:53:38 <gmaxwell> which is even worse and also removes our ability to give useful advice to those people in the form of how the software behaves and is documented.
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1063 2013-08-02 11:58:42 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, an address index as a bandaid is super useful
1064 2013-08-02 11:59:00 <sipa> it _is_ super useful
1065 2013-08-02 11:59:11 <phantomcircuit> a better solution would be that people run their own bitcoind and setup their wallet as an spv node
1066 2013-08-02 11:59:13 <sipa> but nonetheless, we should provide as many solutions for people to avoid it
1067 2013-08-02 11:59:21 <phantomcircuit> but until very recently that was difficult
1068 2013-08-02 12:00:26 <phantomcircuit> sipa, the only really scalable solution is some sort of streaming updates that a remote client can process and be guaranteed to be consistent with the current best chain
1069 2013-08-02 12:00:33 <phantomcircuit> but that's complicated
1070 2013-08-02 12:01:00 <sipa> yes, an SPV wallet :p
1071 2013-08-02 12:01:07 <phantomcircuit> my current best solution is a simple client that doesn't do any verification and just assumes it's connected to a trusted client
1072 2013-08-02 12:01:14 <sipa> bingo
1073 2013-08-02 12:01:31 <sipa> guess what... that's what the protocol was designed for, and already exists :)
1074 2013-08-02 12:01:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, eh sort of but im talking about how to handle transactions which are "confirmed" and end up being a double spend in another chain
1075 2013-08-02 12:01:39 <phantomcircuit> which takes over
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1078 2013-08-02 12:02:26 <gmaxwell> I agree that its useful, but it will also be heavily misused . It's something of an attractive nussance.
1079 2013-08-02 12:02:30 <phantomcircuit> but yeah even the current spv support is much more efficient than making rpc calls constantly
1080 2013-08-02 12:04:47 <gmaxwell> in any case, just saying that our correctness and purity is irrelevant if most (esp important) users switch to spv nodes as a result of being too rigid in compromises that have risks or downsides.
1081 2013-08-02 12:05:13 <phantomcircuit> sipa, well and i've been thinking about how to deal with ridiculous scenarios like a transaction flapping between confirmed and unconfirmed
1082 2013-08-02 12:05:32 <sipa> i think you want a log-structured wallet, really
1083 2013-08-02 12:05:40 <phantomcircuit> yeah essentially
1084 2013-08-02 12:05:59 <sipa> with events like "tx X crediting A passes N confirms", "... falls beneath N confirms", ...
1085 2013-08-02 12:06:05 <sipa> with some N's configurable
1086 2013-08-02 12:06:30 <phantomcircuit> taking the blockchain and translating to credits to accounts gets complicated when you handle confirmed transactions being reversed properly
1087 2013-08-02 12:07:08 <sipa> passing N confirms is a credit
1088 2013-08-02 12:07:17 <sipa> falling beneath it is a cancelling debit
1089 2013-08-02 12:07:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, well yeah
1090 2013-08-02 12:09:59 <t7> is there a crypto scheme that can let n of m keys decrypt a msg?
1091 2013-08-02 12:10:27 <t7> i guess you just encrypt with every combination of n?
1092 2013-08-02 12:10:56 <t7> so yeah that stuff doesnt need to be in the bitcoin protocol because it can be managed elsewhere
1093 2013-08-02 12:11:00 <phantomcircuit> t7, without having to prove destruction of some key?
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1143 2013-08-02 13:30:17 <jgarzik> mornin'
1144 2013-08-02 13:30:30 <phantomcircuit> hello
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1146 2013-08-02 13:31:24 <davec> hey
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1149 2013-08-02 13:36:06 <phantomcircuit> just noticed all of my long lived nodes now have 80+ connections
1150 2013-08-02 13:36:14 <phantomcircuit> that's probably not good
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1152 2013-08-02 13:36:32 <jgarzik> sipa, Yes, it appears I was misreading things
1153 2013-08-02 13:36:36 <jgarzik> sipa, sorry for the noise
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1160 2013-08-02 13:43:49 <tgs3> if you have several wallet files, do they contain any identificator, best easily extractable from CLI, like some UUID?
1161 2013-08-02 13:44:07 <tgs3> to idenify which is which
1162 2013-08-02 13:44:13 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, nope
1163 2013-08-02 13:44:20 <tgs3> that's bummer
1164 2013-08-02 13:44:23 <Cylta> you can use specific BTC addresses for this
1165 2013-08-02 13:44:44 roconnor has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1166 2013-08-02 13:44:45 <Cylta> I mean, make a BTC address and use it existance as a UUID
1167 2013-08-02 13:44:48 <tgs3> Cylta: that was my tohught too, use first address in wallet as wallet ID. but how to get it out in command line etc?
1168 2013-08-02 13:45:06 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, i wouldn't try to inspect the wallet files very much
1169 2013-08-02 13:45:14 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: other idea, would be to allow users to identify wallet by file name
1170 2013-08-02 13:45:29 <phantomcircuit> yeah that's a much better solution
1171 2013-08-02 13:45:30 <michagogo> phantomcircuit: Why is that not good?
1172 2013-08-02 13:45:38 <michagogo> (the connections, that is)
1173 2013-08-02 13:45:42 <tgs3> let user name file like wallet-vacation2013.dat and make bitcoind search for wallet-* and ask/configure which one if several
1174 2013-08-02 13:45:49 <phantomcircuit> michagogo, there's a limit
1175 2013-08-02 13:46:01 <michagogo> Ah, that somehow your client has passed?
1176 2013-08-02 13:46:07 <phantomcircuit> multiple nodes getting close to the limit would suggest a global issue
1177 2013-08-02 13:46:16 <michagogo> Oh?
1178 2013-08-02 13:46:26 <nsh> ETOOPOPULAR
1179 2013-08-02 13:46:27 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: but ideally you would like to also use the UUID to positivly confirm the wallet ID, as it might been miss-labeled, especially over transport
1180 2013-08-02 13:46:28 <phantomcircuit> but they're really really long lived nodes
1181 2013-08-02 13:46:33 <phantomcircuit> so it could just be random
1182 2013-08-02 13:46:40 <michagogo> Looks like I've been live for about 2-3 days, 8 connections
1183 2013-08-02 13:46:43 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, what's this for?
1184 2013-08-02 13:46:56 <phantomcircuit> michagogo, nodes which can receive connections
1185 2013-08-02 13:47:01 <nsh> is there any logic to handle stale connections?
1186 2013-08-02 13:47:14 <phantomcircuit> nsh, not really no
1187 2013-08-02 13:47:15 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: so you can have several wallets with totall isolation (e.g. against hacking, or for privacy - avoid contamination with trace of known addresses)
1188 2013-08-02 13:47:22 <nsh> ok
1189 2013-08-02 13:47:47 <tgs3> or, when you do a global backup for few people, and you want like wallet-bob wallet-allice wallet-my-phone
1190 2013-08-02 13:47:47 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, i'd just go with filenames and then when they load check for an address
1191 2013-08-02 13:48:12 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: so, this is a new idea by me, that someone might implement?
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1193 2013-08-02 13:48:37 <tgs3> I would expected this to be a popular request from other users :)
1194 2013-08-02 13:49:18 imton has joined
1195 2013-08-02 13:49:44 <tgs3> did anyone thought / worked on this before? what about in other bitcoin clients that you know of? (feautures for multiple isolated wallets)
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1197 2013-08-02 13:51:38 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, multiwallet support is something people have wanted for a long time now
1198 2013-08-02 13:51:47 <phantomcircuit> but implementing it hasn't been trivial
1199 2013-08-02 13:51:52 <phantomcircuit> and afaik still isn't
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1203 2013-08-02 13:55:02 <tgs3> how do you actually get out the 1st address in the wallet? with bitcoind commands
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1234 2013-08-02 14:33:52 <tgs3> how to display actually the addresses in wallet? phantomcircuit ? :)
1235 2013-08-02 14:34:55 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, i'd create an "account" which i never used and then check the address for that account with the rpc call
1236 2013-08-02 14:34:59 <phantomcircuit> getaccountaddress
1237 2013-08-02 14:35:13 <phantomcircuit> but really automated exchanging of wallet files is playing with fire
1238 2013-08-02 14:35:50 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: hm so there is no call to just list all the addresses to which you have private keys?
1239 2013-08-02 14:36:50 <CodeShark> lol
1240 2013-08-02 14:37:11 <CodeShark> I was actually implementing exactly such an RPC call as you guys were typing that
1241 2013-08-02 14:37:12 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, i dont think so not
1242 2013-08-02 14:37:32 <tgs3> CodeShark: wow you really jumped the shark here
1243 2013-08-02 14:37:36 <tgs3> \o/ CodeShark publish it
1244 2013-08-02 14:37:55 <tgs3> ok moving on to next target
1245 2013-08-02 14:38:21 * tgs3 focuses consciouness on EU leads... "stop communism, stop communism, stop communism... legalize bitcoin.. legalize bitcoin"
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1252 2013-08-02 14:44:38 <CodeShark> I'll have that pull request ready in a few minutes, tgs3
1253 2013-08-02 14:45:15 <tgs3> neat. Sadly, it seems to not be working on the EU parliment part yet
1254 2013-08-02 14:45:20 <CodeShark> lol
1255 2013-08-02 14:45:30 <CodeShark> you seem to be trying a little too hard on that one :p
1256 2013-08-02 14:46:02 <jgarzik> testnet difficulty 271. grump.
1257 2013-08-02 14:46:21 <michagogo> jgarzik: Do what I do, set your clock ahead 20 mins
1258 2013-08-02 14:46:30 <jgarzik> heh
1259 2013-08-02 14:46:36 <michagogo> You can do that 6 times, or until someone else finds a blockj
1260 2013-08-02 14:46:42 <michagogo> Erm
1261 2013-08-02 14:46:45 <tgs3> anyone have at hand the list of main IPs of seednodes or something?
1262 2013-08-02 14:46:56 <michagogo> I mean, 6 times before someone else finds a block, which resets the counter
1263 2013-08-02 14:46:57 <tgs3> how actually does not bitcoin bootstrap? seednodes? irc still is used too?
1264 2013-08-02 14:47:06 <michagogo> tgs3: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Client_Node_Discovery
1265 2013-08-02 14:47:13 <michagogo> DNS seeds are one way
1266 2013-08-02 14:47:13 <tgs3> thx
1267 2013-08-02 14:47:41 <tgs3> the wiki is down
1268 2013-08-02 14:47:54 daybyter has joined
1269 2013-08-02 14:48:00 <tgs3> for few hours now, someone should poke owner
1270 2013-08-02 14:48:11 <michagogo> Here's a copy from June: http://web.archive.org/web/20130128031539/https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Client_Node_Discovery
1271 2013-08-02 14:48:39 <michagogo> er, http://web.archive.org/web/20130605132021/https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Client_Node_Discovery
1272 2013-08-02 14:49:15 mitty has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1273 2013-08-02 14:49:24 <michagogo> Also see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/net.cpp
1274 2013-08-02 14:49:28 <tgs3> kk
1275 2013-08-02 14:49:50 <tgs3> e.g. say someone would like to run TOR exit router, and help bitcoin community, it would require list of IPs to allow
1276 2013-08-02 14:50:33 <tgs3> (since I sadly live in a democracy, I could be harrased for running *:* tor exit; just bitcoin seems safer, surly no one will complain for being connected to)
1277 2013-08-02 14:51:13 <tgs3> *:8333 is an idea too, but I suppose there are out there some "fragile" things that happen to be on that port and might be attacked
1278 2013-08-02 14:52:57 <CodeShark> tgs3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2873
1279 2013-08-02 14:53:01 <michagogo> tgs3: The DNS seeds are in the code at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/chainparams.cpp#L139
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1282 2013-08-02 14:56:04 <CodeShark> tgs3: I was working on a transaction processing engine that required text files of address dumps for addresses to watch for
1283 2013-08-02 14:56:19 <CodeShark> funny you had the same need at the same time :p
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1288 2013-08-02 15:01:52 <tgs3> CodeShark: :)
1289 2013-08-02 15:02:18 <CodeShark> I'm pretty excited about this engine - about to give it its first test runs :)
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1293 2013-08-02 15:06:36 <tgs3> btw, how does bitcoin combat the problem of being forced by rogue government, e.g. a democracy that allows violence, to distribute troyaned version + gag order
1294 2013-08-02 15:07:23 <tgs3> I suppose for us luckily full build from source is an option. Though we would need to have a deterministic build (though we probably already have, provided identical gcc version and exact libs versions)?
1295 2013-08-02 15:07:24 <michagogo> tgs3: Bitcoin is open-source, and new releases are built deterministically from said source
1296 2013-08-02 15:07:33 <michagogo> tgs3: gitian.
1297 2013-08-02 15:07:56 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1298 2013-08-02 15:08:00 <michagogo> tgs3: bitcoin is built with https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/
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1306 2013-08-02 15:14:26 <jgarzik> hrm
1307 2013-08-02 15:15:04 <jgarzik> Following a "getblocks", what triggers bitcoind to actually send the inv?
1308 2013-08-02 15:15:14 <jgarzik> I see it added to vInventoryToSend
1309 2013-08-02 15:15:16 <t7> what if they compromise one of the libs
1310 2013-08-02 15:15:59 <tgs3> t7: the dynamic part that is on user's computer is the user's problem/responsibility
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1312 2013-08-02 15:16:21 <sipa> jgarzik: there are, for historic reasons, two mechanism
1313 2013-08-02 15:16:32 <tgs3> t7: the headers etc? well we can just hope they are bug free. and of course build system must be installed correctly (varifing downloaded data)
1314 2013-08-02 15:16:47 <sipa> jgarzik: one is the server detecting you've requested the last data item returned as a getblocks-resulting inv set
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1316 2013-08-02 15:17:39 <jgarzik> basically, my client sends a "getblocks", and it gets ignored
1317 2013-08-02 15:17:46 <jgarzik> I see
1318 2013-08-02 15:17:47 <jgarzik> limit 500
1319 2013-08-02 15:17:55 <jgarzik> getblocks stoppinng at limit 500 $hash
1320 2013-08-02 15:18:06 <michagogo> t7: gitian uses static linking, I believe
1321 2013-08-02 15:18:08 <jgarzik> but no message is sent to SPV client
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1326 2013-08-02 15:21:55 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, nothing else is on port 8333 afaik
1327 2013-08-02 15:22:53 <michagogo> VMware Server Management User Interface , Y-cam Wireless IP Camera uses 8333
1328 2013-08-02 15:23:07 <sipa> jgarzik: huh, sure?
1329 2013-08-02 15:23:12 <sipa> jgarzik: it should reply with an inv
1330 2013-08-02 15:23:20 <sipa> jgarzik: unless the invs are already known to be sent
1331 2013-08-02 15:24:02 <michagogo> Aldo EMC2 (Legato) Networker or Sun Solcitice Backup (Official)
1332 2013-08-02 15:24:04 <michagogo> Also*
1333 2013-08-02 15:24:18 <michagogo> also Web service, iTunes Radio streams, QuickTime Streaming Server
1334 2013-08-02 15:24:36 <sipa> jgarzik: imho, getblocks-based syncing is a hack on top of a hack
1335 2013-08-02 15:24:49 <sipa> jgarzik: and i'm amazed it regularly works at all
1336 2013-08-02 15:24:58 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, SendMessages main.cpp ~3800
1337 2013-08-02 15:25:06 <sipa> but it's only through large inefficiencies
1338 2013-08-02 15:25:17 <phantomcircuit> also as sipa says hack upon a hack
1339 2013-08-02 15:25:22 <phantomcircuit> and wont send the same inv twice
1340 2013-08-02 15:25:23 <tgs3> phantomcircuit: I bet some "choose random port" software would be, maybe bittorent clients and other p2p programs
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1342 2013-08-02 15:25:26 <phantomcircuit> for any reason
1343 2013-08-02 15:25:39 <sipa> sometimes it does
1344 2013-08-02 15:25:43 <sipa> there are exceptions :p
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1346 2013-08-02 15:26:01 <sipa> sometimes it doesoh no, that's getdata
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1350 2013-08-02 15:26:24 <sipa> but we receive regular duplicate blocks because we don't properly check which peers are making process
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1352 2013-08-02 15:26:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ok well yeah the inv which is sent to signal the otherside to send another getblocks
1353 2013-08-02 15:26:52 <sipa> in any case... go go headers-based sync
1354 2013-08-02 15:27:09 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, why are you even calling getblocks with an spv node?
1355 2013-08-02 15:27:15 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1357 2013-08-02 15:27:26 <sipa> i hope to have it working this weekend
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1359 2013-08-02 15:29:26 <sipa> phantomcircuit: every SPV node uses it, afaik
1360 2013-08-02 15:29:48 <sipa> (imho headers-based sync is vastly superior, but everyone copied bitcoind's mechanism, i guess)
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1363 2013-08-02 15:30:26 <phantomcircuit> sipa, that's odd
1364 2013-08-02 15:30:42 <sipa> they use getheaders for the point before the birthday
1365 2013-08-02 15:30:55 <sipa> and getblocks + filtered getdata afterwards
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1367 2013-08-02 15:32:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, birthday?
1368 2013-08-02 15:32:17 <phantomcircuit> wat
1369 2013-08-02 15:32:59 <sipa> you're not interested in block data before the wallet's birth
1370 2013-08-02 15:33:11 <phantomcircuit> oh
1371 2013-08-02 15:33:19 <sipa> right, i mean date of birth
1372 2013-08-02 15:33:22 <sipa> not birthday :)
1373 2013-08-02 15:35:10 <arioBarzan> what's the difference between CPrivKey and CWalletKey ?
1374 2013-08-02 15:35:41 <sipa> CWalletKey is unused
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1376 2013-08-02 15:36:10 <sipa> it was supposed to represent a key in a wallet with some associated metadata, but never got used
1377 2013-08-02 15:36:22 <arioBarzan> sipa: thanks
1378 2013-08-02 15:36:41 <sipa> we now have a different metadata mechanism
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1380 2013-08-02 15:42:31 <arioBarzan> sipa: I'm working on a function that sweeps a specific private key. Is Erase(std::make_pair(std::string("key"), vchPubKey.Raw())); enough ? or I would need also
1381 2013-08-02 15:42:34 <arioBarzan> Erase(std::make_pair(std::string("wkey"), vchPubKey.Raw()));
1382 2013-08-02 15:43:03 <sipa> arioBarzan: i wouldn't ever erase a key
1383 2013-08-02 15:43:10 BTCOxygen has joined
1384 2013-08-02 15:43:22 <sipa> there shouldn't be a need
1385 2013-08-02 15:44:05 <arioBarzan> sipa: it would work similar to armory. sweep privkey and keep the address watch-only
1386 2013-08-02 15:44:21 <sipa> huh, why?
1387 2013-08-02 15:44:39 <sipa> what if there's another spend to that address?
1388 2013-08-02 15:44:56 <phantomcircuit> you're screwed
1389 2013-08-02 15:45:08 <arioBarzan> sipa: let's say we have already dumped our private key
1390 2013-08-02 15:45:26 <sipa> why do you need that assumption?
1391 2013-08-02 15:45:33 <sipa> what do you lose by not erasing the key?
1392 2013-08-02 15:46:04 <arioBarzan> Armory has exact same functionality, why I get criticized for that?
1393 2013-08-02 15:46:10 MoALTz_ has joined
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1395 2013-08-02 15:46:55 <sipa> well you're proposing to replicate the behaviour - you should know why you like it
1396 2013-08-02 15:47:02 <sipa> i dislike deleting keys
1397 2013-08-02 15:48:05 <arioBarzan> sipa: we already do that in WriteCryptedKey :)
1398 2013-08-02 15:48:13 <arioBarzan> aren't we?
1399 2013-08-02 15:48:25 <sipa> well yes, after storing them in encrypted form
1400 2013-08-02 15:48:28 <sipa> that's conversion
1401 2013-08-02 15:48:33 <sipa> that has no risk of losing coins
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1407 2013-08-02 15:50:48 <arioBarzan> let's say we have one function that first dumps a selected private key into a safe file on disk, and then if was succesful, it goes ahead and erases that key
1408 2013-08-02 15:51:20 <sipa> either sweeping is a one-time operation that doesn't import any key at all, it just rescans for transactions and spends them to your wallet
1409 2013-08-02 15:51:44 <sipa> or it's a permanent import that keeps sweeping anything sent to it
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1414 2013-08-02 15:55:20 <arioBarzan> sipa: when I think why i like such function, well that is because if your watch-only is merged then I dump my key and import the address. I assume many would like to be able do this.
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1416 2013-08-02 15:57:19 <sipa> i'm sorry, i'm probably too tired - don't listen to me
1417 2013-08-02 15:58:15 <arioBarzan> sipa: now could you tell that whether Erase(std::make_pair(std::string("key"), vchPubKey.Raw())); is enough ?
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1420 2013-08-02 15:58:43 <sipa> arioBarzan: and removing it from mapWallet
1421 2013-08-02 15:58:53 <sipa> arioBarzan: but i can't tell you whether nothing will break
1422 2013-08-02 15:59:10 <sipa> keys are not intended to be deleted from wallets
1423 2013-08-02 15:59:41 <sipa> i would create a new wallet object, import the private key into it, rescan, spend to your normal wallet, and then import the address in your normal wallet
1424 2013-08-02 15:59:48 <sipa> if you really want to do this
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1430 2013-08-02 16:05:00 <arioBarzan> sipa: thanks, I'll make sure that the function make necessary safety measures before removing the key. I was looking for something like Erase() in the code for a long time, and fortunately found it. it was buried in a place hard to be found.
1431 2013-08-02 16:05:33 <sipa> it only removes a key from the wallet file (without guarantee that the data is gone)
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1433 2013-08-02 16:06:04 <sipa> there is no mechanism to remove keys from the keystore now iirc
1434 2013-08-02 16:06:15 <sipa> you'll have to add that
1435 2013-08-02 16:06:48 <sipa> but with a separate wallet doing the rescan, all that isn't necessary
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1439 2013-08-02 16:08:59 <arioBarzan> In case I intend to keep the address as watch-only, then no rescan would be needed IMHO
1440 2013-08-02 16:09:09 <sipa> ...?
1441 2013-08-02 16:09:14 <sipa> that has nothing to do with it
1442 2013-08-02 16:09:23 <sipa> without rescan, you can't know what to sweep
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1445 2013-08-02 16:10:30 <arioBarzan> oh you meant rescan the keystore?
1446 2013-08-02 16:10:47 <sipa> no, rescan the blockchain
1447 2013-08-02 16:11:08 <sipa> for transactions affecting the key to be sweeped
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1449 2013-08-02 16:12:05 <arioBarzan> do we also rescan the blockchain after WriteCryptedKey() ?
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1451 2013-08-02 16:12:18 <sipa> why would you have to?
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1453 2013-08-02 16:12:28 <sipa> the transactions don't change because you store the key differently
1454 2013-08-02 16:12:37 <sipa> rescanning is finding relevant transactions
1455 2013-08-02 16:12:52 <arioBarzan> sipa: I now get it what you meant
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1457 2013-08-02 16:13:12 <arioBarzan> oh no, I'm not going to import that address to a separate machine
1458 2013-08-02 16:13:26 <sipa> not a separate machine
1459 2013-08-02 16:13:28 <arioBarzan> sorry, I meant import that privkey
1460 2013-08-02 16:13:32 <sipa> a separate wallet
1461 2013-08-02 16:13:40 <sipa> as in, a new, temporary CWallet object
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1463 2013-08-02 16:15:06 <sipa> anyway, i'll stop talking
1464 2013-08-02 16:15:08 <sipa> i'm too tired
1465 2013-08-02 16:16:11 <arioBarzan> no problem. thanks a lot for the explanation.
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1470 2013-08-02 16:19:52 <rubino123> Error: Error loading wallet.dat: Wallet corrupted
1471 2013-08-02 16:20:01 <rubino123> I think it is a bdb problem
1472 2013-08-02 16:20:16 <rubino123> I am running bitcoind - salvagewallet
1473 2013-08-02 16:20:26 <rubino123> I am hoping that is enough
1474 2013-08-02 16:20:33 <rubino123> any hints or tips?
1475 2013-08-02 16:20:57 <sipa> -salvagewallet, not - salvagewallet
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1477 2013-08-02 16:22:11 <rubino123> did that just a irc typo
1478 2013-08-02 16:22:33 <rubino123> does it work for testnet wallets?
1479 2013-08-02 16:22:52 <rubino123> bitcoin-qt loads but bitcoind does not
1480 2013-08-02 16:22:57 <sipa> if you add -testnet
1481 2013-08-02 16:23:03 <rubino123> both are set to run on testnet
1482 2013-08-02 16:23:09 <sipa> huh
1483 2013-08-02 16:23:09 <rubino123> via bitcoin.conf
1484 2013-08-02 16:23:13 <sipa> which version?
1485 2013-08-02 16:23:25 <rubino123> recent git pre release version
1486 2013-08-02 16:23:38 <rubino123> week old
1487 2013-08-02 16:23:58 <rubino123> github
1488 2013-08-02 16:24:19 gribble has joined
1489 2013-08-02 16:24:27 <sipa> bitcoin-qt and bitcoind from the same source?
1490 2013-08-02 16:25:13 gruvfunk has joined
1491 2013-08-02 16:26:18 <rubino123> yep
1492 2013-08-02 16:26:53 <rubino123> bitcoind -salvagewallet is still running
1493 2013-08-02 16:26:53 nowan has joined
1494 2013-08-02 16:27:01 <rubino123> its been 3minutes
1495 2013-08-02 16:27:09 <sipa> oh sure, it'll take 20 or so
1496 2013-08-02 16:27:13 <rubino123> ok
1497 2013-08-02 16:27:15 <sipa> it needs to rescan the full chain
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1503 2013-08-02 16:34:12 <rubino123> bitcoin wiki is down; is there anywhere else I can get the json rpc documentation?
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1510 2013-08-02 16:49:27 <phantomcircuit> rubino123, "help" rpc command
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1518 2013-08-02 17:10:20 <jgarzik> sipa, ah, it does not send an inv for something already known (as you indicated)
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1521 2013-08-02 17:10:55 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, getheaders doesn't do that :)
1522 2013-08-02 17:10:58 <jgarzik> sipa, In order to bootstrap things, I was going to work on block-sync (while only storing headers) as a first step, then move to headers-first sync
1523 2013-08-02 17:11:15 <jgarzik> sipa, but maybe I should just go straight to headers-first sync
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1525 2013-08-02 17:11:32 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, that's a good idea :)
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1527 2013-08-02 17:13:13 <CodeShark> you should go to headers-first sync :)
1528 2013-08-02 17:13:17 <CodeShark> it's definitely the way to go
1529 2013-08-02 17:13:41 <CodeShark> it takes on the order of seconds to maximum a couple minutes to fully sync headers only
1530 2013-08-02 17:14:03 <CodeShark> and then you can do block sync far more efficiently by querying different peers for different ranges
1531 2013-08-02 17:14:16 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1533 2013-08-02 17:15:29 <frib> what is the real effect of bitcoin on illegal drug markets?
1534 2013-08-02 17:15:40 <frib> sry wrong channel
1535 2013-08-02 17:15:47 <phantomcircuit> frib, that is super offtopic
1536 2013-08-02 17:15:55 <CodeShark> the bottleneck in sync is actually the fact that you can only query 2000 headers at a time and you cannot query for different ranges from different peers concurrently
1537 2013-08-02 17:15:59 <frib> i know i thought i was in bitcoin
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1540 2013-08-02 17:19:12 <CodeShark> if we were to raise the maximum headers request and support getting nonsequential headers (say, headers spaced a few thousand blocks apart which we then link on our end, using overlaps to make sure different peers agree) and improved the networking code to better handle very high concurrency, it might be possible to sync the entire chain FAR faster
1541 2013-08-02 17:19:34 <CodeShark> actually, even with the header sync taking a couple minutes on the first sync it's tolerable
1542 2013-08-02 17:20:10 <CodeShark> but concurrent block downloads would certainly speed up the sync for a full node
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1544 2013-08-02 17:21:17 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, 0.8.x already pretty much does that
1545 2013-08-02 17:21:41 <CodeShark> it does? I thought sipa had just started these efforts
1546 2013-08-02 17:22:54 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, 0.8.x sends getblocks to all the peers
1547 2013-08-02 17:23:00 <CodeShark> I see pnode->PushMessage("getblocks", CBlockLocator(pindexBegin), hashEnd);
1548 2013-08-02 17:23:06 <CodeShark> I do not see pnode->PushMessage("getheaders", CBlockLocator(pindexBegin), hashEnd);
1549 2013-08-02 17:23:31 <CodeShark> in fact, I don't believe 0.8.x currently sends ANY getheaders messages at all
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1551 2013-08-02 17:23:40 <CodeShark> so no, it doesn't already do this
1552 2013-08-02 17:24:07 <CodeShark> you cannot possibly hope for high concurrency with getblocks unless you first sync headers only
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1555 2013-08-02 17:24:24 <CodeShark> since it's impossible to know future hashes without first getting the INVs for lower hashes
1556 2013-08-02 17:24:32 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, yeah i meant that getblocks is already in parallel
1557 2013-08-02 17:24:40 <phantomcircuit> and since the rest of processing is pipelined
1558 2013-08-02 17:24:44 <phantomcircuit> it doesn't much matter
1559 2013-08-02 17:26:29 <CodeShark> I believe sync time could be significantly improved - moreover, with headers-first, you can already be functional very quickly and gradually become a full node
1560 2013-08-02 17:27:35 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, sync time is already cpu limited
1561 2013-08-02 17:28:02 <CodeShark> how much of the CPU cost is actual number crunching
1562 2013-08-02 17:28:13 <CodeShark> i.e. secp256k1 verification
1563 2013-08-02 17:28:22 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, most of it
1564 2013-08-02 17:28:39 <CodeShark> I'm not entirely convinced
1565 2013-08-02 17:28:45 <phantomcircuit> sipa's libsecp256k1 stuff shows that there's improvements to be made
1566 2013-08-02 17:28:52 <phantomcircuit> but not order of magnitude improvements
1567 2013-08-02 17:28:57 <CodeShark> but I haven't run rigorous benchmarks to confirm my hunches
1568 2013-08-02 17:29:45 <CodeShark> sipa's libsecp256k1 offers like a sixfold improvement in raw secp256k1 signature validation
1569 2013-08-02 17:29:51 <CodeShark> over OpenSSL
1570 2013-08-02 17:30:13 <CodeShark> and it could still be further optimized
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1573 2013-08-02 17:31:41 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, 0.8.x 0.7.x 0.6.x all use the same amount of cpu time to complete an initial block sync
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1575 2013-08-02 17:32:15 <CodeShark> if it really were CPU limited, shouldn't I see my CPU usage spike when synching? yet, what I see spike more than anything else is my network and disk usage
1576 2013-08-02 17:32:41 <phantomcircuit> CodeShark, 0.8.x should completely swamp your cpu after you get past the last checkpoint
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1579 2013-08-02 17:40:41 <warren> -dbcache=<big number> also helps reindex time
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1598 2013-08-02 18:18:19 <arioBarzan> beside importprivkey, now I have a eraseprivkey. If one adds watch-only code to this, together it would function as a "sweep private key".
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1611 2013-08-02 18:36:40 <sipa> phantomcircuit: 0.8 doea not do parallel syncing
1612 2013-08-02 18:37:30 <sipa> jgarzik: headers-first is significantly easuer to implement correctly, imho
1613 2013-08-02 18:37:35 <sipa> jgarzik: it needs no hacks
1614 2013-08-02 18:37:43 <CodeShark> +1 ^
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1616 2013-08-02 18:38:14 <jgarzik> I remember how annoying getblocks sync'ing was, when implementing in pynode.
1617 2013-08-02 18:38:20 <sipa> CodeShark: 0.8 does not send getheaders indeed
1618 2013-08-02 18:38:27 <jgarzik> stupid canary INV entry
1619 2013-08-02 18:39:29 <sipa> jgarzik: indeed
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1630 2013-08-02 18:50:41 <arioBarzan> Does importprivkey support a regular private key (5KJ...) ?
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1634 2013-08-02 18:54:37 <sipa> yes, it only supports those
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1636 2013-08-02 18:54:48 <sipa> not sure what you mean by 'regular' in that sentence?
1637 2013-08-02 18:54:59 <kjj> pretty sure he means WIF
1638 2013-08-02 18:55:07 <sipa> it only supports WIF
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1643 2013-08-02 18:58:29 <sipa> jgarzik: so what i do, is always keep a single vector of height->blockindex mappings, for the best known chain
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1645 2013-08-02 18:58:30 <arioBarzan> sorry, I meant does it support uncompressed addresses as well?
1646 2013-08-02 18:58:37 <sipa> arioBarzan: of course
1647 2013-08-02 18:58:55 <sipa> (uncompressed ones are much older)
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1655 2013-08-02 19:00:47 <arioBarzan> oh, I found what I was looking for. it detectes it with GetSecret() right?
1656 2013-08-02 19:01:33 <sipa> that converts it to a CSecret
1657 2013-08-02 19:01:44 <sipa> depends what version of the code
1658 2013-08-02 19:02:04 <arioBarzan> 0.8.3
1659 2013-08-02 19:02:19 <arioBarzan> it came after this : bool fCompressed;
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1662 2013-08-02 19:04:22 <arioBarzan> sorry, I'm again making you guys tired. I'll go and try to understand it myself.
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1681 2013-08-02 19:09:31 <gjs278> fuck freenode
1682 2013-08-02 19:09:48 <gjs278> fucking disconnect my username jesus christ how long does a ping timeout take on this piece of crap
1683 2013-08-02 19:10:39 <gwillen> gjs278: if your nick is registered, /msg nickserv ghost <nick>
1684 2013-08-02 19:10:59 <gjs278> indeed
1685 2013-08-02 19:11:08 <gjs278> but then it refused to let me change nicks because I was in this channel
1686 2013-08-02 19:11:17 <gjs278> #bitcoin-dev Cannot change nickname while banned on channel
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1735 2013-08-02 19:47:35 <Ry4an> gjs278: there's an annoying away around that where you drop protection on the nick and then re-add it, but it's cheesy
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1767 2013-08-02 20:15:18 <jgarzik> Time to figure out why my CBlockLocator is wrong (in JS SPV client)
1768 2013-08-02 20:15:40 <jgarzik> bitcoind happily serves the first 2,000 headers over and over again, implying the mistake is mine.
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1787 2013-08-02 20:53:08 <arioBarzan> guys I have a commit for adding RPC command "eraseprivkey". anybody could help me and take a brief look at my code?
1788 2013-08-02 20:56:34 <arioBarzan> I have a commit for adding RPC command "eraseprivkey". could you help me and take a brief look at my code?
1789 2013-08-02 20:59:35 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: I don't think anyone is likely to consider it for inclusion, FWIW
1790 2013-08-02 20:59:53 <arioBarzan> Luke-Jr: ok
1791 2013-08-02 20:59:55 <Luke-Jr> also, it's not polite to spam PMs
1792 2013-08-02 21:00:12 <arioBarzan> Luke-Jr: sorry
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1797 2013-08-02 21:07:32 <arioBarzan> https://github.com/meighti/bitcoin/commit/df1df35bab6cf689971f2c8c0962f062cadf1c54 is eraseprivkey. please leave a comment if you could help me and give me any advice about the code. thanks in advanec.
1798 2013-08-02 21:07:40 arioBarzan has left ()
1799 2013-08-02 21:11:28 <jgarzik> Sigh. My getblocks and getheaders problems were caused by JavaScript being "interesting" WRT bitwise math: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6798111/bitwise-operations-on-32-bit-unsigned-ints
1800 2013-08-02 21:11:37 <jgarzik> </unexpected>
1801 2013-08-02 21:11:56 <jgarzik> that broke by work calculations, which broke chain building, which broke locators, ...
1802 2013-08-02 21:12:06 <jgarzik> *my
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1813 2013-08-02 21:34:12 <_jps> i'm messing around with multisig transactions and I keep getting a TX rejected for sendrawtransaction, and the error in the logs is "ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : nonstandard transaction input"
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1820 2013-08-02 21:44:16 <Luke-Jr> _jps: how many parties?
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1824 2013-08-02 21:45:42 <_jps> Luke-Jr: update - I realized that was the wrong hex from a previous attempt, the real error is:
1825 2013-08-02 21:45:58 <_jps> ThreadRPCServer method=sendrawtransaction
1826 2013-08-02 21:45:59 <_jps> ERROR: CScriptCheck() : VerifySignature failed
1827 2013-08-02 21:46:00 <_jps> ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : ConnectInputs failed
1828 2013-08-02 21:46:17 <_jps> Luke-Jr: two parties
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1830 2013-08-02 21:46:36 <Luke-Jr> _jps: sounds like a bad signature
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1832 2013-08-02 21:46:44 <Luke-Jr> what are you using to sign?
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1834 2013-08-02 21:47:00 <_jps> could be, I used electrum to sign, now I'm redoing the transaction with the qt client
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1840 2013-08-02 21:50:39 <_jps> Luke-Jr: Hrm, just redid the transaction exactly with the official bitcoin client, and it worked
1841 2013-08-02 21:50:49 <Luke-Jr> s/official/reference/
1842 2013-08-02 21:51:11 <_jps> quick on the trigger with that one ;)
1843 2013-08-02 21:51:27 <Luke-Jr> _jps: I'm not sure what the message would look like in this case, but some encodings are no longer accepted by Bitcoin-Qt for sigs
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