1 2013-08-16 00:00:08 <jgarzik> specifically, relay a binary, wire format block [template] via zeromq to pool server every X seconds, or upon a new network block
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   5 2013-08-16 00:05:14 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: I dont get the point
   6 2013-08-16 00:05:46 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: you'd be better off using amqp, preferrably with rabbitmq as the message broker
   7 2013-08-16 00:06:11 <gmaxwell> not CORBA?
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 169 2013-08-16 04:32:19 <gmaxwell> so ... we're asking for the wallet passphrase every time someone requests a new address in -qt.
 170 2013-08-16 04:32:29 <gmaxwell> Do none of the technical people here use QT? :P
 171 2013-08-16 04:34:06 MoALTz_ has joined
 172 2013-08-16 04:34:13 <CodeShark> I use it only for development :p
 173 2013-08-16 04:34:52 <warren> gmaxwell: same thing for importprivkey ...
 174 2013-08-16 04:35:01 <gmaxwell> So— guesses on preferred behavior: if the pool is empty, rueuse or prompt then?
 175 2013-08-16 04:35:12 <gmaxwell> warren: importprivkey needs to. uh but thats not a gui feature.
 176 2013-08-16 04:35:27 <warren> importprivkey needs it why?
 177 2013-08-16 04:35:38 <CodeShark> pool should never be filled without explicitly prompting the user to make a backup or doing an automated backup :)
 178 2013-08-16 04:36:00 MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 179 2013-08-16 04:36:56 <CodeShark> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2841
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 181 2013-08-16 04:37:13 <gmaxwell> warren: because it needs to encrypt the key thats being imported, and we made a intentional design decision to not enable people stuffing in extra keys into an encrypted wallet without a key.
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 183 2013-08-16 04:37:25 <warren> ahh ok
 184 2013-08-16 04:37:26 <CodeShark> not sure why it had been closed
 185 2013-08-16 04:37:27 <gmaxwell> (e.g. if they could add to your keypool they could make your change go to an address they control)
 186 2013-08-16 04:37:44 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: you closed it!
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 188 2013-08-16 04:37:52 <CodeShark> yeah, not sure why I closed it :p
 189 2013-08-16 04:38:15 <gmaxwell> so, opinions on QT behavior? reuse or prompt on empty pool?
 190 2013-08-16 04:38:38 <CodeShark> prompt
 191 2013-08-16 04:39:03 <CodeShark> and never autofill without backup
 192 2013-08-16 04:39:23 <warren> reuse is only a risk to privacy, and security if bad PRNG?
 193 2013-08-16 04:39:53 <CodeShark> if PRNG is bad then the bitcoin-qt wallet is already screwed anyhow
 194 2013-08-16 04:42:11 <gmaxwell> warren: it's a risk to security given an attack on ECDSA, and it really impressively craps on privacy (since it leads to all of your addresses in your wallet being linked), more than you might assume.
 195 2013-08-16 04:42:22 <gmaxwell> Not the end of the world, but we should prefer to avoid it.
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 198 2013-08-16 04:43:08 <gmaxwell> privacy has a lot of wrinkles too, like losing your privacy can help thevies better trick you because they can figure out whos rich and who they have to impersonate.
 199 2013-08-16 04:43:33 <CodeShark> behavior should be to alert the user when their pool is running low so they can fill it and make a backup (and filling and backup should require the passphrase)
 200 2013-08-16 04:43:51 <CodeShark> and disallow transactions when pool is empty
 201 2013-08-16 04:44:03 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: for the amount of code required there, we should probably move to determinstic by default wallets.
 202 2013-08-16 04:44:19 <CodeShark> that's the only other sane option :)
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 205 2013-08-16 04:45:41 <CodeShark> even with deterministic wallets, though, we still need to pregenerate
 206 2013-08-16 04:45:52 <CodeShark> the difference is that it only takes one master key to recover the sequence
 207 2013-08-16 04:46:06 <gmaxwell> well, if they're type 2, we don't... but yea.. I prefer our default wallets be type 1.
 208 2013-08-16 04:47:48 <CodeShark> and we should keep the change key sequence separate from the receiving key sequence
 209 2013-08-16 04:47:51 <CodeShark> two separate pools
 210 2013-08-16 04:48:11 <CodeShark> we don't necessarily need to go full hierarchicl
 211 2013-08-16 04:48:14 <CodeShark> *hierarchical
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 214 2013-08-16 04:50:48 <CodeShark> also, even though the sequence of keys is predetermined, backups are still necessary to keep track of which keys have been issued, account labels, etc...
 215 2013-08-16 04:51:25 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: you've read bip32 right?
 216 2013-08-16 04:51:35 <gmaxwell> it's designed specifically to enable keeping those sequences seperate.
 217 2013-08-16 04:51:37 <CodeShark> I contributed to that document :p
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 221 2013-08-16 04:51:58 <CodeShark> that's why I said we don't necessarily have to go full hierarchical in bitcoin-qt right now
 222 2013-08-16 04:52:07 <CodeShark> it was in reference to the BIP0032 document
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 225 2013-08-16 04:53:12 <gmaxwell> okay, didn't read completely because I was coding at the same time.
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 227 2013-08-16 04:55:34 <CodeShark> the change sequence utilization can be derived from the block chain, assuming all transactions are instantly broadcast (and not, say, given to the recipient out-of-band)
 228 2013-08-16 04:55:46 <CodeShark> I'm not so sure about this assumption
 229 2013-08-16 04:56:11 <CodeShark> but a wallet state could still be fully rendered by just keeping track of the last key used in each sequence
 230 2013-08-16 04:56:18 <CodeShark> at least as far as key utilization
 231 2013-08-16 04:56:20 <gmaxwell> yea, not a great assumption, see the payment protocol ppull.
 232 2013-08-16 04:56:41 <gmaxwell> but if you get mindwiped you could just skip a couple to avoid reuse.
 233 2013-08-16 04:57:05 <CodeShark> so with a master key and an index for each sequence you could reconstruct the wallet state (less account labels)
 234 2013-08-16 04:57:07 <gmaxwell> also, an implemention could have a wallet id and always skip max_ids.
 235 2013-08-16 04:57:28 <gmaxwell> but you'll never get your notes / labels/ recepts/ etc. so you still do need backups.
 236 2013-08-16 05:00:12 <CodeShark> those things should probably be possible to store separate from the master key/index information
 237 2013-08-16 05:02:07 <CodeShark> with type 2 keys, you could associate labels with sets of indices - with type 1 keys, you'd have to store full addresses
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 239 2013-08-16 05:03:55 <CodeShark> would be nice to automate replication
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 241 2013-08-16 05:04:25 <CodeShark> ensure that all the user's data is either saved to two separate devices always - or that it's backed up passphrase-encrypted on some servers somewhere
 242 2013-08-16 05:05:11 <gmaxwell> just to make the code cheaper and simpler, might as well just store the actual keys in both cases.
 243 2013-08-16 05:06:31 <CodeShark> asymmetric encryption for backups, perhaps
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 245 2013-08-16 05:07:38 <gmaxwell> yea. having a distinct encrypted backup might be nice... the user factors are a bit tricky.
 246 2013-08-16 05:07:52 <gmaxwell> the whole wallet is encrypted.. unless you copy the file on disk instead of a backup.
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 248 2013-08-16 05:10:52 <CodeShark> the user could point their backup to, say, an ftp server and have it automatically encrypted
 249 2013-08-16 05:12:38 <gmaxwell> one issue is that users will, quite reliably, use weak keys. And then they'll point it to a public ftp server and lose the only protection they have (attacker doesn't have the wallet)
 250 2013-08-16 05:13:39 <CodeShark> ideally, the recovery key should be of high entropy and stored on some removable device
 251 2013-08-16 05:14:14 <gmaxwell> yea, but the notion of a backup that isn't enough to recover your key might really confuse people. (and result in dumb behavior like not keeping the recovery key)
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 254 2013-08-16 05:14:50 <gmaxwell> armory prompts you to print a recovery key, I think we should do that. and indeed, if they've done that we could make those remote backups secure.
 255 2013-08-16 05:15:02 <CodeShark> the idea is that you only need to go through the process of generating this key and storing it securely once
 256 2013-08-16 05:15:31 <CodeShark> you still need to make regular backups, but with asymmetric encryption there's no need to expose your master recovery key to the outside world
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 258 2013-08-16 05:15:43 <gmaxwell> an interesting idea too is to just have it be some anonymous file storage service that you just pay for with bitcoin in your wallet.
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 261 2013-08-16 05:16:42 <CodeShark> I've had several such ideas for using cryptocurrency for IT resource allocation
 262 2013-08-16 05:17:01 <CodeShark> not just storage
 263 2013-08-16 05:17:22 <CodeShark> yeah, it's an interesting idea indeed
 264 2013-08-16 05:18:29 <CodeShark> that's a whole discussion unto itself (or several of them)
 265 2013-08-16 05:19:08 <gmaxwell> yep. In any case, if you think users really can handle a seperate backup from recovery code, then indeed, I think thats a spiffy idea.
 266 2013-08-16 05:20:34 <gmaxwell> so, interesting case earlier. User gets the content of his bitcoin-qt wallet stolen.
 267 2013-08-16 05:20:42 <gmaxwell> Running windows. Malware infected host.
 268 2013-08-16 05:21:01 <gmaxwell> However, his wallet was encrypted. It was encrypted on another host which hasn't been on in months. (OSX host)
 269 2013-08-16 05:21:20 <gmaxwell> he insists he never entered the key at all on the windows host, just used it to check the balance here and there.
 270 2013-08-16 05:22:06 <gmaxwell> the key he was using seems secure, 28 characters long, and while obviously not randomly generated, it doesn't — in my expirence— seem like something that would at all be easy to crack.
 271 2013-08-16 05:22:35 <gmaxwell> I got a pre-compromise copy of his wallet, indeed its encrypted. No evidence of leaked private keys in there.
 272 2013-08-16 05:23:28 <gmaxwell> his bitcoin.conf had the rpc setup (just user and password, no server=1 or allow lines). I quizzed him good and can't find anything that would have caused him to set that up.
 273 2013-08-16 05:23:41 <gmaxwell> though his debug log doesn't indicate that the coins were taken over the rpc in any case.
 274 2013-08-16 05:24:37 <CodeShark> this really happened?
 275 2013-08-16 05:24:52 <CodeShark> or hypothetical?
 276 2013-08-16 05:25:06 <gmaxwell> yep, it's real... just a bit ago.
 277 2013-08-16 05:25:23 gritball has joined
 278 2013-08-16 05:25:43 <gmaxwell> Obvious answer is that the user is mistaken, that he really did type the key in. Even ninjas such as myself could be mistaken about such a thing.
 279 2013-08-16 05:26:12 <gmaxwell> but it seems weird. Other people with similar sounding malware (some java thing) have made similar reports in the past.
 280 2013-08-16 05:26:43 <gmaxwell> But none of the prior ones had claimed that they'd never typed the key in on the system in question.
 281 2013-08-16 05:27:16 <gmaxwell> I'm contemplating putting a large amount of btc in an encrypted wallet with an impossible key, and posting it on the forum.
 282 2013-08-16 05:28:17 <CodeShark> top hypotheses: 1) he did enter the key into the compromised system, 2) his passphrase was guessed or compromised, 3) weak PRNG, 4) the "uncompromised" system was actually compromised as well
 283 2013-08-16 05:29:19 <CodeShark> i.e. he might have used the passphrase somewhere else
 284 2013-08-16 05:29:27 <gmaxwell> I think (1) is most likely though the only supporting evidence is "even competent users make mistakes",   (2)  may be the case if his password has structure obvious to an attack with access to his system and not me.
 285 2013-08-16 05:29:54 <gmaxwell> He says he used it on nothing else except a litecoin wallet, (whos coins weren't stolen btw) generated and handled in exactly the same manner.
 286 2013-08-16 05:30:17 <gmaxwell> (3) perhaps, but if so we would expect massive thefts on windows systems.
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 288 2013-08-16 05:30:35 <gmaxwell> and (5) is we have a private key information leak. (again)
 289 2013-08-16 05:30:49 <gmaxwell> ohh.. lemme try to get his database log files from him, perhaps the private keys are in there.
 290 2013-08-16 05:30:51 <CodeShark> (3) seems unlikely because the thefts would tend to be for some keys, not necessarily all, and across many different wallets
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 292 2013-08-16 05:31:26 <CodeShark> assuming a nondeterministic wallet, that is
 293 2013-08-16 05:32:01 <CodeShark> do you know the nature of the malware?
 294 2013-08-16 05:32:03 <gmaxwell> point, they did hit several keys. And if it were the case I think we'd see enormous thefts, not just single users.
 295 2013-08-16 05:32:23 <CodeShark> wallet stealer? key logger?
 296 2013-08-16 05:32:48 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: no, on some prior user is exploited a JVM vulnerability and installed some background java task that did god knows what, this guy said it was "some java program" and had removed it.
 297 2013-08-16 05:33:08 <CodeShark> ironic - java is supposed to be "safe" :p
 298 2013-08-16 05:33:54 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
 299 2013-08-16 05:34:10 <gmaxwell> darn, he says he copied only the wallet.dat, so the idea of leaking via the database log directory is out.
 300 2013-08-16 05:36:44 <gmaxwell> I've asked for the exact file off the mac in case it was from a leaky version of bitcoin... but probably won't get it soon.
 301 2013-08-16 05:37:16 <gmaxwell> Its frustrating that users don't have flight recorders on them. I hate that its so easy to cop out on what might be a subtle and serious bug and say "ah, probably user error"
 302 2013-08-16 05:38:24 <CodeShark> worst case scenario, I suppose, is a break in the wallet encryption algo
 303 2013-08-16 05:39:11 <CodeShark> seems unlikely, but still possible
 304 2013-08-16 05:39:20 <CodeShark> perhaps some subtle weakness in OpenSSL's implementation
 305 2013-08-16 05:39:21 <CodeShark> lol
 306 2013-08-16 05:39:31 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: nah, other people have written decrypters for it.
 307 2013-08-16 05:39:46 <CodeShark> ok
 308 2013-08-16 05:39:55 <gmaxwell> unless there is something crazy like a data leak in extra space in the field...
 309 2013-08-16 05:40:03 <CodeShark> so then barring a side-channel attack, such a break would imply a break in the actual cipher
 310 2013-08-16 05:40:27 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 311 2013-08-16 05:40:55 <CodeShark> where could the data leak possibly be?
 312 2013-08-16 05:40:57 <gmaxwell> yea, which is AES.
 313 2013-08-16 05:41:20 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: there really isn't room for a leak unless its something like bdb seralizing random bits of the heap into the files.
 314 2013-08-16 05:41:45 <gmaxwell> (and, well, I wouldn't be totally shocked if that happened, BDB is not entirely valgrind clean)
 315 2013-08-16 05:41:46 <Vinnie_win> Hey guys how's it goin?
 316 2013-08-16 05:41:57 <CodeShark> hello, vinnie
 317 2013-08-16 05:42:38 <Vinnie_win> Just put up a nice fat update to beast
 318 2013-08-16 05:42:46 <Vinnie_win> Got that socket wrapper working!!!!
 319 2013-08-16 05:43:01 <CodeShark> I've been doing asio stuff too, lately - let me take a look at your socket wrapper
 320 2013-08-16 05:43:25 <Vinnie_win> CodeShark: Its in modules/beast_asio/sockets
 321 2013-08-16 05:43:34 <Vinnie_win> although I'm not sure what your use-case would be
 322 2013-08-16 05:43:54 <CodeShark> general interest in async I/O and metaprogramming
 323 2013-08-16 05:44:05 <Vinnie_win> Well there's plenty of metaprogramming thats for sure
 324 2013-08-16 05:44:11 <Vinnie_win> I was swimming in it
 325 2013-08-16 05:44:49 agnostic98 has joined
 326 2013-08-16 05:45:50 <Vinnie_win> There's some handshake detection logic in there too, for building a socket that talks multiple protocols
 327 2013-08-16 05:45:56 mrkent has joined
 328 2013-08-16 05:46:27 <CodeShark> you mean it switches at runtime?
 329 2013-08-16 05:46:51 <Vinnie_win> CodeShark: The detect logic is in beast. The "MultiSocket" is in ripple
 330 2013-08-16 05:47:36 <Vinnie_win> CodeShark: but you could build it yourself from the components in beast, just wrap an asio::socket with an asio::buffered_read_stream and pass the bytes into my detector. once it figures out what you have, then construct the appropriate object
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 338 2013-08-16 06:19:42 <Luke-Jr> seems everyone is thinking of the "NODE_NETWORK without NODE_BLOOM" use case and usefulness; but "NODE_BLOOM without NODE_NETWORK" might in fact be more relevant O.o
 339 2013-08-16 06:19:47 melvster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 340 2013-08-16 06:20:19 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 341 2013-08-16 06:21:14 melvster has joined
 342 2013-08-16 06:22:07 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yes, that indeed might be relevant.
 343 2013-08-16 06:28:29 <warren> Luke-Jr: do you plan on backporting the CVE rework and mining node crash to 0.8 stable?
 344 2013-08-16 06:28:43 <warren> (you're the backport maintainer right?)
 345 2013-08-16 06:28:55 <Luke-Jr> warren: "CVE rework and mining node crash"?
 346 2013-08-16 06:28:57 <Luke-Jr> yes
 347 2013-08-16 06:30:10 <warren> actually, hwat's the difference between your backport releases and 0.8.3?
 348 2013-08-16 06:30:33 <warren> Luke-Jr: why aren't the backport releases on bitcoin.org?
 349 2013-08-16 06:31:58 RoboTeddy has joined
 350 2013-08-16 06:32:12 <gmaxwell> Because they're only supported by luke (and whomever cares to help him) and not by the reset of the core team. We don't recommend them, except as a last ditch option to someone who really cannot upgrade.
 351 2013-08-16 06:32:29 <warren> ah
 352 2013-08-16 06:32:51 <Luke-Jr> even I don't recommend them :p
 353 2013-08-16 06:32:56 <warren> so this means no 0.8.4 for those two fixes? it seems 0.9 still is a while away.
 354 2013-08-16 06:33:06 <Luke-Jr> there is no excuse for a new user (ie, someone on bitcoin.org) to use a backport
 355 2013-08-16 06:33:18 <Luke-Jr> warren: if it's merged to master, it will probably get a backport
 356 2013-08-16 06:33:27 <warren> Luke-Jr: both are now merged to master
 357 2013-08-16 06:33:31 <Luke-Jr> assuming it is in fact a fix
 358 2013-08-16 06:33:50 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 359 2013-08-16 06:33:58 <warren> if 0.8.4 happens, I have a tree of recommended other backports that we've been using in production for 2+ months
 360 2013-08-16 06:34:06 <gmaxwell> I
 361 2013-08-16 06:34:19 <Luke-Jr> warren: I have a 0.8.x branch already, just not published at the moment
 362 2013-08-16 06:34:23 <gmaxwell> I can't imagine why we'd don that for the mining node crash.
 363 2013-08-16 06:34:30 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 364 2013-08-16 06:34:33 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ?
 365 2013-08-16 06:34:36 <gmaxwell> there is a trivial workaround, don't run with debug=1.
 366 2013-08-16 06:34:38 <warren> well, if it's happening, let's talk about what backports to include in 0.8.4
 367 2013-08-16 06:34:44 <warren> we've been testing them in production
 368 2013-08-16 06:34:50 RoboTeddy has joined
 369 2013-08-16 06:35:02 <warren> gmaxwell: eh?  none of those nodes had debug=1
 370 2013-08-16 06:35:07 <warren> gmaxwell: (that's the confusing part)
 371 2013-08-16 06:35:12 eoss has joined
 372 2013-08-16 06:35:28 <gmaxwell> warren: they did.
 373 2013-08-16 06:35:34 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 374 2013-08-16 06:36:01 <gmaxwell> We confirmed in here everyone that crashed had debugging enabled. One person who said they didn't showed a debug log that clearly did.
 375 2013-08-16 06:38:14 <warren> oh
 376 2013-08-16 06:38:20 <warren> in that case, do we really need to patch this?
 377 2013-08-16 06:38:44 <Luke-Jr> it certainly doesn't sound like a lone justification for 0.8.4
 378 2013-08-16 06:39:11 <gmaxwell> it's a buggy case that shouldn't have happened, and with debug enabled it kicks nodes into an assert (in code that otherwise handles the bad case)
 379 2013-08-16 06:39:13 <warren> how serious is that CVE rework?
 380 2013-08-16 06:39:20 <gmaxwell> but no reason to make a 0.8.4.
 381 2013-08-16 06:39:28 <Luke-Jr> warren: define "CVE rework"
 382 2013-08-16 06:39:33 <Luke-Jr> CVE is a numbering system
 383 2013-08-16 06:39:34 * warren finds
 384 2013-08-16 06:40:11 <gmaxwell> He's talking about the long tx truncation thing.
 385 2013-08-16 06:40:24 <Luke-Jr> the one 0.8.3 fixed?
 386 2013-08-16 06:40:28 <warren> Luke-Jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2871
 387 2013-08-16 06:42:06 <gmaxwell> warren: nah, nothing to rerelase there.
 388 2013-08-16 06:44:44 <Luke-Jr> warren: do you have someone to do Mac builds btw?
 389 2013-08-16 06:48:53 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 390 2013-08-16 06:49:44 * Luke-Jr can't believe his 0.7.2 node hasn't hardforked yet
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 394 2013-08-16 06:54:13 <warren> Luke-Jr: yes
 395 2013-08-16 06:54:18 <warren> Luke-Jr: why?
 396 2013-08-16 06:54:29 <Luke-Jr> warren: stable has no Mac builder
 397 2013-08-16 06:54:40 <Luke-Jr> as Gavin has better things to do
 398 2013-08-16 06:55:16 <warren> Luke-Jr: can you throw some coins at our mac dev?  he'll do it, but he's kind of poor
 399 2013-08-16 06:55:32 <warren> he dedicated one entire mac for clean builds
 400 2013-08-16 06:55:52 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 401 2013-08-16 06:56:34 <Luke-Jr> warren: I'll think about it; who is it? One problem with Mac builds is that they aren't deterministic, so there's a huge amount of trust needed
 402 2013-08-16 06:56:46 MobPhone has joined
 403 2013-08-16 06:56:57 <warren> Luke-Jr: yeah, we have that same amount of huge trust on him
 404 2013-08-16 06:56:59 coeus_ has joined
 405 2013-08-16 06:57:19 <warren> Luke-Jr: he's a personal friend that I've known for 3 years, old school openbsd hacker
 406 2013-08-16 06:58:23 coeus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 407 2013-08-16 06:58:45 <warren> Luke-Jr: He's worked on cross compilers WAY back, and he thinks with funding he can make linux-based deterministic cross-compiled mac build.
 408 2013-08-16 06:58:47 <Luke-Jr> warren: no name? ;p
 409 2013-08-16 06:58:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: Rama McIntosh (face)
 410 2013-08-16 06:59:41 <Luke-Jr> warren: I collected some donations toward gitian Mac target a while back; I could probably forward that
 411 2013-08-16 06:59:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: he's in the room here talking about gitian mac, he wants all previous notes on it
 412 2013-08-16 07:00:14 <Luke-Jr> I can provide that too
 413 2013-08-16 07:00:20 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: torproject is gitianing for osx now.
 414 2013-08-16 07:00:29 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: successfully?
 415 2013-08-16 07:00:33 <gmaxwell> I thought so.
 416 2013-08-16 07:01:30 <Luke-Jr> warren: notes at http://codepad.org/xieBaqeT
 417 2013-08-16 07:01:36 <Luke-Jr> warren: code at https://gitorious.org/cross-osx/cross-osx/trees/master
 418 2013-08-16 07:02:14 <Luke-Jr> warren: this worked up until 0.6 ish, when the GCC used no longer supported enough C++11 for Bitcoin
 419 2013-08-16 07:02:47 coeus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 420 2013-08-16 07:03:09 <Luke-Jr> likely needs to be redone with LLVM
 421 2013-08-16 07:03:31 <warren> hm
 422 2013-08-16 07:03:39 <warren> I'll let him know.
 423 2013-08-16 07:03:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: our dev fund will throw some into this goal too, but we can't be the only funder.
 424 2013-08-16 07:04:16 <Luke-Jr> warren: I can probably contribute something around 25 BTC
 425 2013-08-16 07:05:36 <Luke-Jr> warren: not myself personally, but from previous donations toward that goal
 426 2013-08-16 07:06:07 <warren> ok
 427 2013-08-16 07:06:45 <warren> Luke-Jr: it seems people want linux-based cross-compile so anyone can build it, but would mac-hosted deterministic be acceptable?
 428 2013-08-16 07:07:41 <Luke-Jr> warren: as long as the guest OS is free software, it should work with any host..
 429 2013-08-16 07:08:24 <warren> ok, so gitian-like
 430 2013-08-16 07:08:53 <Luke-Jr> well, I'd like to assert for-gitian
 431 2013-08-16 07:09:08 davedave has joined
 432 2013-08-16 07:09:21 <warren> ok
 433 2013-08-16 07:09:44 <warren> Luke-Jr: can you please send me an e-mail with all relevant details?
 434 2013-08-16 07:09:45 <Luke-Jr> if that means redefining gitian to an equivalent software package that does the same thing, that's fine too
 435 2013-08-16 07:10:26 <Luke-Jr> warren: email?
 436 2013-08-16 07:10:39 [\\\] has joined
 437 2013-08-16 07:11:53 <warren> Luke-Jr: PM
 438 2013-08-16 07:12:58 <gmaxwell> bitcoin sociopaths make me sad: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=274749.msg2943846#msg2943846
 439 2013-08-16 07:14:51 <warren> I thought we had only rational people.
 440 2013-08-16 07:15:25 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 441 2013-08-16 07:16:03 <gmaxwell> it's so bitcoin that the bad guy hangs around and tells theymos how he's going to dos attack him.
 442 2013-08-16 07:17:48 ericmuyser has joined
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 445 2013-08-16 07:28:49 <warren> Luke-Jr: "End binaries should be backward compatible to at least Mac OS X 10.5"
 446 2013-08-16 07:29:09 <Luke-Jr> warren: it's my understanding that's what we have today.
 447 2013-08-16 07:29:12 <warren> Luke-Jr: our builds worked on 10.5 but mysteriously crashed after a few minutes of uptime
 448 2013-08-16 07:29:27 <warren> Luke-Jr: only one user complained about it, indicating how few users are using it
 449 2013-08-16 07:29:33 <Luke-Jr> warren: if Gavin says we can drop 10.5 support, that's fine
 450 2013-08-16 07:30:05 <warren> Luke-Jr: our builds are supposed to work on 10.5 but mysteriously fail.  both 0.6 and 0.8 have the same issue.
 451 2013-08-16 07:30:08 <Luke-Jr> in fact, you may want to get Gavin to comment on requirements too
 452 2013-08-16 07:30:37 <Luke-Jr> warren: also, just because people don't use scamcoins with 10.5 does not infer they don't use Bitcoin :p
 453 2013-08-16 07:30:54 patcon has joined
 454 2013-08-16 07:31:13 <warren> Luke-Jr: I'm sure this work will be copied by the 300 scamcoins
 455 2013-08-16 07:31:21 <Luke-Jr> warren: irrelevant
 456 2013-08-16 07:31:32 <Luke-Jr> warren: btw might also check with Freicoin - they have a development fund too
 457 2013-08-16 07:31:40 <warren> Luke-Jr: ok
 458 2013-08-16 07:31:45 <Luke-Jr> and a completely different userbase than Bitcoin, AIUI
 459 2013-08-16 07:32:11 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 460 2013-08-16 07:32:45 <Luke-Jr> [07:31:01] <warren> Luke-Jr: I'm sure this work will be copied by the 300 scamcoins <-- my point is that you cannot infer that one 10.5 user of Litecoin says ANYTHING about 10.5 users of Bitcoin
 461 2013-08-16 07:33:04 agnostic98 has joined
 462 2013-08-16 07:33:49 <Luke-Jr> personally, if Apple has stopped supporting 10.5, I'd say "upgrade or stfu", but I think that needs Gavin's ok
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 466 2013-08-16 07:37:14 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 467 2013-08-16 07:37:41 <warren> Luke-Jr: OTOH, we have had only one 10.5 user complain
 468 2013-08-16 07:37:44 <warren> so maybe it's fine
 469 2013-08-16 07:37:55 <Luke-Jr> warren: …
 470 2013-08-16 07:38:09 <warren> we're using pretty much the same mac build procedure that gavin uses
 471 2013-08-16 07:38:12 <Luke-Jr> warren: "we" being Litecoin. Not Bitcoin.
 472 2013-08-16 07:38:44 <warren> Luke-Jr: yeah yeah, I get that you're hostile to Litecoin.  Get over it.  we have common problems to fix in Bitcoin.
 473 2013-08-16 07:38:59 <Luke-Jr> warren: you have to admit that Litecoin's userbase says nothing about Bitcoin's..
 474 2013-08-16 07:39:31 <warren> Luke-Jr: I don't have to admit anything. I don't care about ancient mac users.  If it can be fixed then fine.
 475 2013-08-16 07:39:39 Vinnie_win has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 476 2013-08-16 07:40:04 <Luke-Jr> warren: Bitcoin might care. But again that's something to ask Gavin.
 477 2013-08-16 07:40:50 <warren> It isn't clear that it is broken, given our statistically significant sample size of 1.
 478 2013-08-16 07:41:22 ahmedbodi has joined
 479 2013-08-16 07:41:27 <Luke-Jr> warren: k
 480 2013-08-16 07:41:36 Vinnie_win has joined
 481 2013-08-16 07:41:37 <Luke-Jr> it isn't really completed yet either afaik? :p
 482 2013-08-16 07:42:03 <warren> what isn't completed?
 483 2013-08-16 07:42:14 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 484 2013-08-16 07:43:13 <Krellan> question about bitcoin-qt: when it puts up the prompt for "Are you sure you want to send X BTC..." has it calculated the TX fee yet?  Or is that not known until it's ready to put the TX on the wire?  Reason is, I want to try to add the TX fee to that prompt, so user can see the true total they are spending.
 485 2013-08-16 07:44:42 <gmaxwell> Krellan: it could be known wherever. the fee can be fixed so long as its holding a lock on the status of the coins in the wallet.
 486 2013-08-16 07:45:02 patcon has joined
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 490 2013-08-16 07:47:26 <Luke-Jr> warren: gitian OS X
 491 2013-08-16 07:47:48 <Luke-Jr> Krellan: there is a pull request to change that
 492 2013-08-16 07:48:59 <Krellan> Nice, there's already a pull request open?  Cool, will save duplicate work.  Do you have URL for that pull request?
 493 2013-08-16 07:49:39 <warren> Luke-Jr: who are the key freicoin people to talk to?
 494 2013-08-16 07:49:58 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 495 2013-08-16 07:50:39 <Luke-Jr> warren: maaku mainly. there are others in #freicoin , but he's the project lead
 496 2013-08-16 07:50:49 mattco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 497 2013-08-16 07:51:11 <Luke-Jr> Krellan: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2651 I think
 498 2013-08-16 07:51:37 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 499 2013-08-16 07:51:51 coingenuity has joined
 500 2013-08-16 07:52:15 <warren> Luke-Jr: thanks
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 503 2013-08-16 08:08:42 <Luke-Jr> Is there a reason we're using Ripple's fork of LevelDB in master now? :|
 504 2013-08-16 08:09:24 <Luke-Jr> which isn't even merging properly with upstream..
 505 2013-08-16 08:09:54 <Luke-Jr> and has a "1.12" release that doesn't include upstream's 1.12 fixes
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 513 2013-08-16 08:22:54 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: so what do you see NODE_BLOOM w/o NODE_NETWORK meaning?
 514 2013-08-16 08:23:21 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: I'm not sure ;)
 515 2013-08-16 08:23:34 <Luke-Jr> perhaps relays transactions/blocks, but doesn't have a local store for them?
 516 2013-08-16 08:23:54 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: as it is NODE_NETWORK is kinda imprecise, which doesn't help...
 517 2013-08-16 08:23:58 coingenuity has joined
 518 2013-08-16 08:24:54 <petertodd> For instance it could make sense for an SPV node to relay whole blocks, but then does it make sense for that node to then filter those blocks for SPV peers with even less bandwidth? The security assumption is the same, although practical security is probably weaker.
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 527 2013-08-16 08:34:11 <Krellan> I read that pull request, seems to make sense to me, it's 3 months old.  Curious why it wasn't accepted into mainstream, or is it still in the process of being reviewed?
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 534 2013-08-16 09:02:27 <Luke-Jr> Krellan: yes
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 553 2013-08-16 09:43:23 rubino123 has joined
 554 2013-08-16 09:46:36 <rubino123> how can I get pending tx data via json rpc
 555 2013-08-16 09:48:56 _ingsoc has joined
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 557 2013-08-16 09:52:08 <jouke> what do you mean by pending tx data?
 558 2013-08-16 09:52:14 GordonG3kko has joined
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 560 2013-08-16 09:53:06 <rubino123> jouke: if an addressin the wallet was sent a sum of bitcoins how do I find how many confirms exist?
 561 2013-08-16 09:55:41 <jouke> listreceivedbyaddress
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 569 2013-08-16 10:16:21 <Luke-Jr> 9bf2a4a Fix multi-block reorg transaction resurrection <-- anyone know what was broken? O.o
 570 2013-08-16 10:18:36 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: nothing fancy, we were just adding transactions back to the memory pool in the wrong order
 571 2013-08-16 10:19:43 <Luke-Jr> oh ok
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 683 2013-08-16 14:04:30 <jgarzik> mornin'
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 687 2013-08-16 14:12:10 <nsh> mornin jgarzik
 688 2013-08-16 14:12:15 <nsh> how does the day find you?
 689 2013-08-16 14:12:24 <jgarzik> well endowed
 690 2013-08-16 14:12:28 <jgarzik> with USB block erupters
 691 2013-08-16 14:12:41 owowo has joined
 692 2013-08-16 14:12:42 <nsh> of the operational variety?
 693 2013-08-16 14:12:48 <jgarzik> one hopes!
 694 2013-08-16 14:12:54 <jgarzik> haven't plugged them in yet
 695 2013-08-16 14:13:01 <jgarzik> but they are well packaged and fun to show off
 696 2013-08-16 14:13:13 <nsh> sweet
 697 2013-08-16 14:13:26 <nsh> please make a mining robot jgarzik
 698 2013-08-16 14:13:33 normanrichards has joined
 699 2013-08-16 14:13:38 <sipa> jgarzik: mine are still somewhere in california
 700 2013-08-16 14:13:43 <jgarzik> what would a mining robot do?  :)
 701 2013-08-16 14:14:02 <nsh> it looks like a robot miner and it mines bitcoin and it follows you around telling you statistics
 702 2013-08-16 14:14:04 <nsh> in a robot voice
 703 2013-08-16 14:14:09 <nsh> and maybe it can fetch things
 704 2013-08-16 14:14:09 <jgarzik> I have been thinking about writing a pool server, zeromq bitcoind -> stratum-only pool server
 705 2013-08-16 14:14:10 <nsh> i don't know
 706 2013-08-16 14:14:17 <jgarzik> like beer
 707 2013-08-16 14:14:20 <nsh> yes
 708 2013-08-16 14:14:27 <nsh> imagine that, it fetches you beer, while it's paying for your beer
 709 2013-08-16 14:14:33 <nsh> that is like the perfect home companion
 710 2013-08-16 14:14:36 WhoKnew has joined
 711 2013-08-16 14:14:36 <jgarzik> hah
 712 2013-08-16 14:14:57 <nsh> "MASTER HAS EARNED ONE BEER. MINEBOT FETCH BEER!"
 713 2013-08-16 14:14:59 WhoKnew has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 714 2013-08-16 14:15:37 * nsh gets the drawing board out. this could be a very successful executive throw-money-at-me toy
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 716 2013-08-16 14:16:06 <sipa> ;;genrate 330
 717 2013-08-16 14:16:07 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 50810339.0483, is 0.00326624764823 BTC per day and 0.00013609365201 BTC per hour.
 718 2013-08-16 14:16:35 <sipa> $0.3 per day, that'd mean like one beer every two weeks here :)
 719 2013-08-16 14:16:49 rubino123 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 720 2013-08-16 14:16:57 <nsh> lol
 721 2013-08-16 14:18:04 <jgarzik> I tried to convince BitPat to group buy 1,000 of them, to give away at shows
 722 2013-08-16 14:18:08 <jgarzik> BitPay
 723 2013-08-16 14:18:11 <nsh> response?
 724 2013-08-16 14:18:15 <jgarzik> laughter
 725 2013-08-16 14:18:18 <nsh> lol
 726 2013-08-16 14:18:44 <nsh> you need to use hypnosis maybe
 727 2013-08-16 14:18:55 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 728 2013-08-16 14:19:20 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: why stratum-only? :/
 729 2013-08-16 14:19:33 <sipa> just tell them that'll get them 30 beers a day _in switzerland_
 730 2013-08-16 14:19:45 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, alas, that is the direction of momentum
 731 2013-08-16 14:20:08 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, requires much less smarts in the miner -> path of least resistance
 732 2013-08-16 14:20:27 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: path to centralization
 733 2013-08-16 14:20:34 <sipa> stratum is fine for the connection between miners and your own trusted server
 734 2013-08-16 14:20:52 <jgarzik> …and that's what we're talking about, indeed
 735 2013-08-16 14:21:02 <Luke-Jr> oh, solo mining?
 736 2013-08-16 14:21:19 <Luke-Jr> could just use GBT with longpolling in bitcoind
 737 2013-08-16 14:23:38 <Luke-Jr> no need to reinvent things with 2 or 3 more layers of indirection :p
 738 2013-08-16 14:24:03 <jgarzik> I dislike GBT from bitcoind.  Would prefer to receive a full, binary block via zeromq
 739 2013-08-16 14:24:36 agnostic98 has joined
 740 2013-08-16 14:25:16 <jgarzik> bitcoind sends binary block template >>>zeromq>>> pool server >>> stratum >>> miner
 741 2013-08-16 14:25:28 <sipa> ok so do GBT over ZeroMQ?
 742 2013-08-16 14:25:46 <sipa> instead of over RPC
 743 2013-08-16 14:25:58 <jgarzik> sipa, yes, but without all the unneeded GBT bells&whistles
 744 2013-08-16 14:26:05 <jgarzik> sipa, just a binary block
 745 2013-08-16 14:26:15 <jgarzik> and without all the hex/unhex/hex encoding
 746 2013-08-16 14:26:18 * Luke-Jr wonders how that's different from GBT, other than skipping JSON nonsense
 747 2013-08-16 14:27:19 <Luke-Jr> I looked at ZeroMQ for a possible mining protocol, but it needs some huge library :/
 748 2013-08-16 14:27:20 <jgarzik> no need for the GBT metadata
 749 2013-08-16 14:27:22 <jgarzik> just a block
 750 2013-08-16 14:27:37 <jgarzik> "fee", "sigops", "hash", … not needed.  just send a binary block.
 751 2013-08-16 14:28:05 <aspect_> question.. that would be a ZMQ "push", or rather pool server would SUB to the messages from bitcoind, right?
 752 2013-08-16 14:28:47 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: then you're having bitcoind do all the policy decisions ;)
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 757 2013-08-16 14:29:05 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, invalid assumption
 758 2013-08-16 14:29:20 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: well, without a blockchain, you can't know the fees from a raw block
 759 2013-08-16 14:29:35 c0rw1n has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 760 2013-08-16 14:30:07 <aspect_> jgarzik: pool would subscribe to messages from bitcoind, right?
 761 2013-08-16 14:30:15 <jgarzik> aspect_, yes
 762 2013-08-16 14:30:25 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, correct
 763 2013-08-16 14:30:30 <aspect_> if bitcoind fails, how does pool know that bitcoind went down?
 764 2013-08-16 14:30:37 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: without fee info, no good way to do policy decisions
 765 2013-08-16 14:30:52 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, no need for much policy in the pool server
 766 2013-08-16 14:31:12 <Luke-Jr> perhaps
 767 2013-08-16 14:31:14 <sipa> jgarzik: now i'm not following
 768 2013-08-16 14:31:38 <sipa> jgarzik: you say Luke-Jr is wrong in saying that raw blocks means having bitcoind do all policy decisions
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 770 2013-08-16 14:31:47 <warren> aspect_: pool server implementations already detect RPC failure and have facilities to fallback to other defined nodes
 771 2013-08-16 14:31:47 <jgarzik> aspect_, standard zmq error handling
 772 2013-08-16 14:32:04 <Luke-Jr> warren: the topic is non-RPC stuff
 773 2013-08-16 14:32:09 <warren> ok
 774 2013-08-16 14:32:12 <sipa> jgarzik: but then confirm that the pool won't be doing any policy
 775 2013-08-16 14:32:17 <jgarzik> sipa, I was saying that luke was making an invalid assumption that the policy stuff should be in the pool server, rather than bitcoind
 776 2013-08-16 14:32:23 <sipa> ah
 777 2013-08-16 14:32:35 <jgarzik> if you trust bitcoind, pool server can be quite dumb
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 779 2013-08-16 14:32:47 <sipa> sure, the point in GBT is removing that requirement
 780 2013-08-16 14:32:56 <sipa> if the bitcoind is yours, you don't need the extra
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 782 2013-08-16 14:33:10 <jgarzik> nod
 783 2013-08-16 14:33:16 * jgarzik is not proposing /removing/ anything
 784 2013-08-16 14:33:26 <jgarzik> GBT can stay, I'm just not going to use it :)
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 786 2013-08-16 14:33:42 <Luke-Jr> Policy decisions made in the poolserver have a number of benefits in other use cases :p
 787 2013-08-16 14:33:45 <sipa> but it's trivial to implement what you want on top of bitcoind
 788 2013-08-16 14:33:49 <sipa> via GBT
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 790 2013-08-16 14:34:54 <Luke-Jr> perhaps I'm wrong, but now I'm with the impression that jgarzik is doing this for fun/experiment more than improvement :p
 791 2013-08-16 14:35:16 <sipa> ha
 792 2013-08-16 14:35:35 <jgarzik> sipa, yes -- that describe an incredibly inefficient way to accomplish this
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 794 2013-08-16 14:35:43 <jgarzik> describes
 795 2013-08-16 14:36:04 <sipa> jgarzik: sure, but does that matter?
 796 2013-08-16 14:36:16 <jgarzik> sipa, IMO yes
 797 2013-08-16 14:36:31 <Luke-Jr> considering that CreateNewBlock is already incredibly inefficient, I'd not be looking to optimize GBT away at this point even if I were trying to optimize
 798 2013-08-16 14:37:45 <jgarzik> I would love to find a quick way to multi-thread access to the mempool in a way that does not involve locking the entire damn thing, during block creation
 799 2013-08-16 14:38:01 <sipa> that's easy
 800 2013-08-16 14:38:06 <sipa> reader/writer locks
 801 2013-08-16 14:38:20 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: petertodd has some changes to precalculate the priority sort
 802 2013-08-16 14:40:46 <jgarzik> sipa, still blocks mempool addition (a frequent operation) for a long batch operation (pulling a copy of the entire mempool)
 803 2013-08-16 14:42:40 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, then i guess you'll need something like using individually-allocated mempool objects, with a refcount
 804 2013-08-16 14:43:00 <sipa> jgarzik: so you only need to lock shortly, increase the refcounts, unlock, and you can construct the block
 805 2013-08-16 14:43:21 <jgarzik> yep
 806 2013-08-16 14:44:24 <jgarzik> Standard problem.  Container entry/exit need synchronization, and individual items also need synchonization
 807 2013-08-16 14:44:48 <jgarzik> Complex, but solutions are known
 808 2013-08-16 14:45:14 <jgarzik> Have several data structures like this in the kernel -- so active that the entire container cannot remain locked for long periods.
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 813 2013-08-16 14:49:09 <Luke-Jr> hmm
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 815 2013-08-16 14:49:30 <Luke-Jr> is it just me, or did '159bc48 Simplify storage of orphan transactions' fix an unrelated bug accidentally? O.o
 816 2013-08-16 14:50:55 <Luke-Jr> looks like the old code relayed the orphan-resolving transaction multiple times, and the new code relays it once PLUS the no-longer-orphaned transaction
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 820 2013-08-16 14:59:28 <BCB> ahh
 821 2013-08-16 14:59:30 <BCB> ok
 822 2013-08-16 14:59:42 <Diablo-D3> wouldnt that be funny of it did
 823 2013-08-16 15:02:38 handle is now known as handle_
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 825 2013-08-16 15:02:42 handle_ is now known as handle
 826 2013-08-16 15:03:50 handle is now known as handle_
 827 2013-08-16 15:04:29 handle_ is now known as handle
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 842 2013-08-16 15:36:50 <Luke-Jr> ah, I see why I was confused there.
 843 2013-08-16 15:36:57 <Luke-Jr> the non-conflicted part renamed stuff
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 863 2013-08-16 16:18:55 <bmcgee> hey if i want to know when difficulty has changed it's (height % 2016 == 0) ?
 864 2013-08-16 16:19:32 <Luke-Jr> bmcgee: depends on how you define "changed"
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 866 2013-08-16 16:20:04 <Luke-Jr> bmcgee: is it after the last block at the old difficulty, or at the first block of the new? :p
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 870 2013-08-16 16:21:12 <bmcgee> let me think this through a bit, i've asked a few stupid questions of late lol
 871 2013-08-16 16:21:18 <bmcgee> not interested in continuing the streak
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 873 2013-08-16 16:24:10 <midnightmagic> bmcgee: don't worry so much about that. of the people who would think less of you for asking a stupid question, whose opinion really matters if that's the kind of person they are?
 874 2013-08-16 16:24:22 <bmcgee> ok so i poll bitcoind for the block template. Sometimes there's new transactions, other times a new block template. In the block template I see the height. Is it reasonable to simply check the height of each new block template and if it satisfies (height % 2016 == 0) then trigger a getmininginfo request to find out the new network difficulty. Or is it another case of polling getmininginfo
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 876 2013-08-16 16:24:44 <bmcgee> midnightmagic: don't get me wrong, I wont let it stop me. It would just be nice to get a break is all ;)
 877 2013-08-16 16:25:58 <Luke-Jr> warren: #2871 was a pain to backport XD
 878 2013-08-16 16:26:57 <Luke-Jr> bmcgee: getblocktemplate gives you the difficulty O.o
 879 2013-08-16 16:27:20 <bmcgee> Luke-Jr: see, i just looked up the wiki page again before i asked it, i had a feeling…………
 880 2013-08-16 16:27:29 <bmcgee> couldn't see it
 881 2013-08-16 16:27:33 <bmcgee> goddamn it...
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 883 2013-08-16 16:27:51 <Luke-Jr> bmcgee: bits
 884 2013-08-16 16:28:49 <bmcgee> actually i feel retarded…… of course, the difficulty for the block is the difficulty for the network……. oh well glad i didn't make a fool of myself in front of a load of peop…… ha
 885 2013-08-16 16:31:50 <pjorrit> if you just acted all sauve while doing that nobody would've noticed
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 889 2013-08-16 16:34:16 <Luke-Jr> <.<
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 951 2013-08-16 17:51:09 <Luke-Jr> warren: Raw git changelog for 0.8.4 so far: http://codepad.org/33yv0ZCW
 952 2013-08-16 17:51:50 <Luke-Jr> warren: and 0.8.x branch pushed
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 957 2013-08-16 18:01:57 <jgarzik> Solver() is an annoying name
 958 2013-08-16 18:02:13 <jgarzik> it is a matcher, not a solver
 959 2013-08-16 18:02:26 <jgarzik> it returns matches, not solutions.  It's doing friggin' algebra.
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 961 2013-08-16 18:02:30 <jgarzik> *not doing
 962 2013-08-16 18:03:11 <gmaxwell> hm? It's solving a subset-sum problem. :P
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 964 2013-08-16 18:05:11 <marcusw> it's solving a computer science problem
 965 2013-08-16 18:05:17 <marcusw> so is IRC
 966 2013-08-16 18:05:26 <marcusw> we should call it "messaging solution protocol"
 967 2013-08-16 18:05:51 <marcusw> or "messaging protocol solution" even
 968 2013-08-16 18:06:37 <marcusw> MSVS calls collections of project files "solutions" (for marketing reasons, lol)
 969 2013-08-16 18:07:52 <CodeShark> in my signing agent I'm just calling it something like "getPayeeFromScriptPubKey" (or some abbreviated form of this)
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 971 2013-08-16 18:08:38 <jgarzik> it is solving something in the sense that every function is solving something ;p
 972 2013-08-16 18:08:52 <nsh> not f(x) : x
 973 2013-08-16 18:09:20 <nsh> well, i suppose that might solve an identity crisis
 974 2013-08-16 18:09:21 <jgarzik> CodeShark, yeah, pretty much
 975 2013-08-16 18:09:31 ielo has joined
 976 2013-08-16 18:09:32 <nsh> /hereallweek
 977 2013-08-16 18:09:41 <jgarzik> and/or classify-transaction
 978 2013-08-16 18:09:47 <gmaxwell> "routeinputs"
 979 2013-08-16 18:09:51 <gmaxwell> :P
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 981 2013-08-16 18:10:37 <jgarzik> it is even more butters because we have two functions named Solver(), that do different things
 982 2013-08-16 18:10:39 <CodeShark> it's a three step process: 1) find the payee from scriptPubKey (if the key store has it), 2) construct a scriptSig, 3) sign
 983 2013-08-16 18:10:42 <jgarzik> I hate C++
 984 2013-08-16 18:10:59 <jgarzik> "let's overload = to mean wacky stuff"
 985 2013-08-16 18:11:01 <CodeShark> overloading is great when you're careful not to mix semantics
 986 2013-08-16 18:11:20 <jgarzik> every C++ programmer overloads their project with overloading
 987 2013-08-16 18:11:31 Gnaf has joined
 988 2013-08-16 18:11:49 <jgarzik> surely a distributed SQL database join may be described in C++ as "a + b"
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 994 2013-08-16 18:13:01 <CodeShark> the problem isn't C++ - the problem is poor design :p
 995 2013-08-16 18:13:25 <CodeShark> poor design is a problem regardless of language
 996 2013-08-16 18:13:44 <gmaxwell> At some point, when the body count is high enough, you have to consider blaming the tool too.
 997 2013-08-16 18:14:12 <CodeShark> the tool is not really to blame - other than that people develop poor habits around certain features
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 999 2013-08-16 18:15:06 <Ry4an> a gun that you have to hold with two hands or it explodes is a shitty gun even if it never explodes when held w/ two hands.
1000 2013-08-16 18:15:26 <CodeShark> C++ gives you great freedom in naming stuff and defining operators - that doesn't mean people are going to pick good names
1001 2013-08-16 18:15:45 <gmaxwell> We probably have language arguments in here too often, so I'm going to do my part and not feed it. :P
1002 2013-08-16 18:15:47 <CodeShark> if they don't pick good names in C++, chances are they wouldn't have picked good names in any other language either
1003 2013-08-16 18:15:56 <handle> Ry4an: I don't understand your analogy
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1008 2013-08-16 18:16:33 <handle> also, the most popular languages don't have any restrictions on what variable names can be
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1011 2013-08-16 18:17:38 <CodeShark> overloading is a great feature when used properly because it allows you to resolve types automatically - but it only makes sense when the semantics carry over to all the supported types
1012 2013-08-16 18:18:14 <Luke-Jr> handle: I want to name my variables 1 and 2
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1014 2013-08-16 18:19:04 <CodeShark> in the Solver example, imagine someone calling the second version Solver2 because the language doesn't allow overloading
1015 2013-08-16 18:19:12 <CodeShark> we've gotten nowhere - and arguably this is even worse :)
1016 2013-08-16 18:20:14 <gmaxwell> solver_impl()
1017 2013-08-16 18:20:22 <Luke-Jr> bfgminer has a number of Solver2s
1018 2013-08-16 18:20:31 <Luke-Jr> and 3s and 4s <.<
1019 2013-08-16 18:20:34 <CodeShark> lol
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1023 2013-08-16 18:26:09 <sipa> Solver4(x)
1024 2013-08-16 18:26:16 <sipa>   // Solves for x
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1027 2013-08-16 18:34:58 <Luke-Jr> would anyone be opposed to adding a #bitcoin-watch equivalent to Bitcoin-Qt?
1028 2013-08-16 18:35:09 <Luke-Jr> it's kinda.. too high traffic for freenode/IRC these days ..
1029 2013-08-16 18:35:10 <Luke-Jr> :/
1030 2013-08-16 18:36:13 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I think that would be neat.
1031 2013-08-16 18:36:42 <gmaxwell> But there is no way in hell I'm working on that.
1032 2013-08-16 18:36:58 <Luke-Jr> <.<
1033 2013-08-16 18:37:28 <gmaxwell> :P
1034 2013-08-16 18:38:01 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: really that could just be an external program that made a p2p link to your local bitcoin node.
1035 2013-08-16 18:38:22 <Luke-Jr> hmm, probably
1036 2013-08-16 18:38:40 <Luke-Jr> could even be a CLI app <.<
1037 2013-08-16 18:38:57 <sipa> or a webserver
1038 2013-08-16 18:39:12 <Luke-Jr> why would it be a webserver? -.-
1039 2013-08-16 18:39:20 Sabey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1040 2013-08-16 18:39:29 <sipa> web is the new console
1041 2013-08-16 18:39:35 <Luke-Jr> my IRC client doesn't let me open a webpage in it
1042 2013-08-16 18:39:38 <Luke-Jr> :p
1043 2013-08-16 18:39:39 <gmaxwell> "Why not both"
1044 2013-08-16 18:39:59 <gmaxwell> /exec -o ~/watcher
1045 2013-08-16 18:40:07 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: don't make me host a JS x86 emulator that runs bitcoind and this!
1046 2013-08-16 18:40:51 * Luke-Jr ponders if anything ever came of that JS x86 emulator
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1084 2013-08-16 19:25:38 <moarrr> <gribble> Error: You do not meet qualifications for entering ratings.
1085 2013-08-16 19:25:44 <moarrr> wtf does this mean>
1086 2013-08-16 19:25:44 <moarrr> ?
1087 2013-08-16 19:28:21 <Luke-Jr> moarrr: wrong channel
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1099 2013-08-16 19:48:43 <iwilcox> Anyone know the approximate relative sizes of the things stored in wallet.dat?  A p2p trading site I trade at says it has problems with wallet.dat being HUUUGE and apparently being a pain to back up.  I was wondering what low-hanging fruit they might want to look at cutting out.
1100 2013-08-16 19:48:49 GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1101 2013-08-16 19:49:13 <CodeShark> the bitcoind wallet was not designed for that kind of use
1102 2013-08-16 19:49:25 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1103 2013-08-16 19:49:26 <gmaxwell> if it's p2p why do they have a big wallet? :P
1104 2013-08-16 19:49:35 <iwilcox> They give "huge wallet" as a reason to limit how often you can create a new deposit address.  I hate not being able to get a fresh address on demand :(
1105 2013-08-16 19:49:45 <iwilcox> They escrow the Bitcoin part of all deals
1106 2013-08-16 19:50:01 <iwilcox> So I guess p2p is a bit inaccurate.
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1110 2013-08-16 19:50:15 <CodeShark> hopefully I should have a far more scalable wallet in the very near term
1111 2013-08-16 19:50:18 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: thats ... lame.  You know we have multisignature transactions so an escrow that can steal your coins doesn't need to exist.
1112 2013-08-16 19:50:54 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: the protocol supports it but there aren't very many tools for it
1113 2013-08-16 19:51:07 <gmaxwell> in any case, I dunno why they'd need to do that beyond preventing dos attacks (E.g. with a captcha and per user rate limiter). Even with tens of thousands of addresses the wallet is just a few megabytes.
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1115 2013-08-16 19:51:13 <CodeShark> and most of the people building these sites are script kiddies :p
1116 2013-08-16 19:51:19 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: Sure, but escrow isn't all he provides.  He works quite hard to vet sellers, attract buyers, make the whole thing easy.  He earns his 1% I'd say.
1117 2013-08-16 19:51:21 <moarrr> gmaxwell: im having a little problem rating people on gribble...
1118 2013-08-16 19:51:22 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: there aren't many tools for a website you deposit money to, and still it exists.
1119 2013-08-16 19:51:32 <moarrr> gmaxwell: who can i talk to about this?
1120 2013-08-16 19:51:50 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: sure, and you could still give him his 1%. Thats not exclusive with handing your coin over to him.
1121 2013-08-16 19:51:54 awishformore has joined
1122 2013-08-16 19:52:04 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: ACK your latter comment. :P
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1126 2013-08-16 19:54:40 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: OK, how would the multisig thing work if he was merely an introducer?
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1128 2013-08-16 19:55:43 <iwilcox> CodeShark: The guy has a pretty good track record in security, and I certainly wouldn't put this particular guy in the kiddie category :)
1129 2013-08-16 19:57:14 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: You suggesting he just provides one sig on a 2-of-3?
1130 2013-08-16 19:57:20 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: Sure.
1131 2013-08-16 19:57:27 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: charge for introductions— send funds, get introductions (and access to a multisig key), charge for resolving disputes.
1132 2013-08-16 19:57:34 <Cusipzzz> iwilcox: how large a file? I have one ~100megs, slow but works ok
1133 2013-08-16 19:58:13 * iwilcox greps logs
1134 2013-08-16 19:59:22 <iwilcox> "it sucks that the wallet.dat is hundreds of megs and i have to back it up frequently"
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1136 2013-08-16 19:59:28 <iwilcox> That was in May.
1137 2013-08-16 19:59:50 <Cusipzzz> thanks, was wondering when this one might run into problems
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1141 2013-08-16 20:01:24 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: sounds like its time to rotate it.
1142 2013-08-16 20:02:08 <Cusipzzz> is there some way to bulk importprivkeys to bitcoind in a fresh wallet?
1143 2013-08-16 20:02:34 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: that shouldn't do you any good.
1144 2013-08-16 20:02:38 <iwilcox> I guess he's avoiding that because he'd have to deal with the occasional situation where someone sends to an ancient deposit address that's since been rotated out
1145 2013-08-16 20:02:40 <xeroc> if thnkg there is some -norescan switch o so
1146 2013-08-16 20:02:46 <gmaxwell> If that helps then just bdb compacting the wallet would have helped.
1147 2013-08-16 20:02:58 <Cusipzzz> iwilcox: right, same concern
1148 2013-08-16 20:03:14 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: import takes an argument to trigger rescan or not.
1149 2013-08-16 20:03:36 <gmaxwell> But, what are you trying to do there? importing private keys into a wallet is often a sign that you're doing something misguided.
1150 2013-08-16 20:04:14 <helo> who has to back up their wallet frequently?
1151 2013-08-16 20:04:25 <Cusipzzz> trying to reduce the size of wallet.dat but keep the active keys
1152 2013-08-16 20:05:03 <xeroc> helo: people who use new keys frequently
1153 2013-08-16 20:05:25 <gmaxwell> xeroc: you should have your pool size set so that you don't have to backup too frequently.
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1155 2013-08-16 20:05:46 <Cusipzzz> like if i can identify spent keys that are not assigned to users, they can be removed to save space potentially. I have a wallet.dat ~100meg, so may face the iwilcox issue at some point
1156 2013-08-16 20:05:51 <Luke-Jr> iwilcox: my wallet.dat is only 16 MB and I left my bitcoind generating addresses constantly for a while some months ago..
1157 2013-08-16 20:05:57 <xeroc> so some thread on btctalk saying to increase it up to ... say 1000
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1161 2013-08-16 20:06:20 <Luke-Jr> how do you people get huge wallets?
1162 2013-08-16 20:06:22 <iwilcox> Luke-Jr: Which is why I ask about the component's sizes
1163 2013-08-16 20:06:31 <xeroc> no idea .
1164 2013-08-16 20:06:39 <Cusipzzz> Luke-Jr: running a popular service that ad
1165 2013-08-16 20:06:47 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yea, I recall having it be something like 10-20mb for 100k addresses or so. But whats probably getting these people are copies of whole paying transactions in the wallet.
1166 2013-08-16 20:06:47 <Cusipzzz> assigns address often
1167 2013-08-16 20:07:12 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: e.g. someone with one of those 100k dust transactions pays 50 of your users. I think we end up with 50 copies of that transaction in the wallet.
1168 2013-08-16 20:07:32 <Luke-Jr> O.o
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1170 2013-08-16 20:07:41 <iwilcox> That's not something that happens at this p2p-ish place.
1171 2013-08-16 20:08:18 <iwilcox> I guess, though, perhaps people often withdraw from exchanges to their p2p wallet; perhaps those draw on loads of UTXOs at the exchange.
1172 2013-08-16 20:09:35 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: does it keep a balance at all?
1173 2013-08-16 20:09:42 <Cusipzzz> right. there are potentially empty/non assigned address from years ago taking up space.
1174 2013-08-16 20:09:49 <gmaxwell> besides, people performing deanonymizing transactions pay dust to people who don't want it at all.
1175 2013-08-16 20:10:02 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: the actual addresses themselves take up ~no space. Transactions involved with them do.
1176 2013-08-16 20:10:30 <Cusipzzz> right. best way to clean that up?
1177 2013-08-16 20:10:40 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: The p2p site?  Yeah, how could it not?   I guess you could say it's a web wallet that just happens to be used almost entirely for the p2p stuff.
1178 2013-08-16 20:10:45 <xeroc> so why arent txs separated from the wallet (ak keys)?
1179 2013-08-16 20:11:11 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: right, so I can promise you some of its users are giving addresses from it to fountains and such.
1180 2013-08-16 20:11:51 <iwilcox> Cusipzzz: I guess a really cheap and nasty way might be to do the bulk private key move thing, then just *not* rescan :)
1181 2013-08-16 20:12:06 <gmaxwell> xeroc: in seperate files? because then you'd have two files you need to back up instead of one.
1182 2013-08-16 20:12:15 <Cusipzzz> iwilcox: yeah :)
1183 2013-08-16 20:12:32 <xeroc> wh do i have to backup the txs .. they are stored in the blockchain ..
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1185 2013-08-16 20:12:43 <gmaxwell> (you need to back up transactions because the network can forget them until they're burried, and because your metadata about them can't be recovered: accounts/labels, timestamps, etc)
1186 2013-08-16 20:13:29 <xeroc> hmm ... good point .
1187 2013-08-16 20:13:29 <gmaxwell> For transactions paying you the only way to recover them is by doing very expensive scanning or queries against the blockchain, which is also important to avoid.
1188 2013-08-16 20:13:50 <gmaxwell> But certantly the data could be stored more efficiently than I think we do now.
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1190 2013-08-16 20:14:01 <xeroc> yhea . but thats in case you LOOSE them .. which should ne avoided in the first place
1191 2013-08-16 20:14:39 <xeroc> isnt the privkey MUCH MUCH more important than some info about txs .. which can BE RECOVERD ... i'm just saying ..
1192 2013-08-16 20:14:47 <gmaxwell> sure, but you change some things around and recover a backup... and oh darn, no transactions for a week while you have someone search databases for your transactions.
1193 2013-08-16 20:15:06 <gmaxwell> xeroc: the metadata is unrecoverable. Yes, the keying material is more important, but it all ought to be backed up.
1194 2013-08-16 20:15:18 <xeroc> ah ..I see .. the big issue is the user ... typical layer-8 problem .. good point ..
1195 2013-08-16 20:15:47 <xeroc> ok .. giving up .. you arguemtns are good enough for me ;-)
1196 2013-08-16 20:15:54 * xeroc hugs gmaxwell
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1198 2013-08-16 20:17:01 <gmaxwell> xeroc: Your point about key data being more important matters too. There are a couple ways of handling it, none are fantastic.
1199 2013-08-16 20:17:27 <xeroc> you mean .. extracting them using pywallet .. or stuff like that?
1200 2013-08-16 20:17:35 <xeroc> not so userfriendly
1201 2013-08-16 20:18:08 <gmaxwell> No, I mean ways of structuring the wallet to better reflect the differential importance of keying vs other data.
1202 2013-08-16 20:18:31 <Cusipzzz> i extract them just in case this 100meg wallet fails completely. but there should be an easier w[Cay to identify unused/spent addresses, copy to new wallet with no rescan
1203 2013-08-16 20:18:39 <gmaxwell> E.g. with a determinstic wallet the first backup would be at least sufficient to capture your keying data forever. Or you could do keys only backups.
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1205 2013-08-16 20:19:07 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: a problem with that is that over and over again we see people doing things like that, destroying the original wallet, and then realizing that they have remaining coin.
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1208 2013-08-16 20:19:53 <Cusipzzz> i'm not destroying the original, will have it, but worried about corruptions as it grows with all this 2 year old unneeded data
1209 2013-08-16 20:19:59 <xeroc> at least its a topic with ongoing discussions ..
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1211 2013-08-16 20:20:30 <xeroc> btw ... are there any plans for deterministic wallets for the original client?
1212 2013-08-16 20:20:58 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: how would you define in-use for your purpose?
1213 2013-08-16 20:21:23 <Cusipzzz> assigned to a user or has a balance (not empty old change addresses, etc
1214 2013-08-16 20:21:36 <gmaxwell> what does assigned to a user mean?
1215 2013-08-16 20:21:46 <gmaxwell> like in your external system?
1216 2013-08-16 20:21:50 <Cusipzzz> users of the service, which they see as a deposit address
1217 2013-08-16 20:22:19 <gmaxwell> okay, so exportprivkey on everything in your system, and every address in listunspent. (and perhaps every address that you've recently used if not current)
1218 2013-08-16 20:22:26 <gmaxwell> and then importprivkey
1219 2013-08-16 20:22:31 <gmaxwell> what else do you need?
1220 2013-08-16 20:22:35 <Cusipzzz> with no rescan, right?
1221 2013-08-16 20:22:44 <xeroc> preferable ..
1222 2013-08-16 20:23:01 <xeroc> unless you want to wait several minutes for each single key
1223 2013-08-16 20:23:07 <xeroc> => no rescan ..
1224 2013-08-16 20:23:26 <gmaxwell> Cusipzzz: with no rescan.
1225 2013-08-16 20:23:27 <xeroc> insert the lat key with rescan to let bitcoind update the unspent list
1226 2013-08-16 20:23:35 <xeroc> s/lat/last/
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1228 2013-08-16 20:23:38 <Cusipzzz> i'm just worried about possible corruption due to size, and delays in querying/backup, like iwilcox mentioned
1229 2013-08-16 20:23:40 <gmaxwell> right the last one you rescan on.
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1231 2013-08-16 20:24:00 <Cusipzzz> if it was tested with no probs at 500megs, i'm safe for some time
1232 2013-08-16 20:24:06 <gmaxwell> iwilcox didn't mention any corruption or delays, only that making backups was burdensom.
1233 2013-08-16 20:25:10 <Cusipzzz> backups are a little slow, lisstransactions is slow, just trying to head off future problems if there is a clean way to do it
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1235 2013-08-16 20:25:21 <iwilcox> I don't know the exact details, but I think the guy's issue is with space taken by his regular backups, and time taken to make them (presumably he has to stop the daemon, but the exchange is always running so that means downtime)
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1237 2013-08-16 20:25:53 <iwilcox> Perhaps I should point him at bup for the backups.  Been using it for a couple of years and my backups are still tiny.
1238 2013-08-16 20:26:07 <iwilcox> Saved my bacon once too.
1239 2013-08-16 20:26:20 <xeroc> isnt there a way to cleanly backup without shutting down?
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1241 2013-08-16 20:26:32 <Cusipzzz> i have disk space to burn, not too worried on that one
1242 2013-08-16 20:26:34 <gmaxwell> sure, backupwallet
1243 2013-08-16 20:26:53 <xeroc> thought so .. why not use that @ iwilcox
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1248 2013-08-16 20:32:15 <iwilcox> Oh, perhaps he is doing that.  As I say, I'm just trying to give him no excuse to avoid fixing it, so I don't know the details and my end goal is just: let me create a fresh deposit address whenever I want one, and don't use your backup stuff as an excuse
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1251 2013-08-16 20:33:30 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: "Gmaxwell from the core development team says that his large wallet problems are almost certantly not caused by having lots of addresses".
1252 2013-08-16 20:33:40 <Cusipzzz> iwilcox: i do it by request, but it's not automated so someone doesn't go nuts
1253 2013-08-16 20:33:45 <iwilcox> In the long term, in this particular case gmaxwell could have a point about multisig.  That said, having the BTC in the site's hotwallet does allow them to ensure that only an offer truly, currently backed by BTC is displayed
1254 2013-08-16 20:33:47 <Krellan_> I'd like to have some large wallet problems :)
1255 2013-08-16 20:34:10 <iwilcox> Krellan_: We're talking wallet-full-of-receipts problems ;)
1256 2013-08-16 20:34:21 <Cusipzzz> Krellan_: disk space size large only, i assure you
1257 2013-08-16 20:34:29 <Krellan_> Doh :)
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1259 2013-08-16 20:34:58 <gmaxwell> iwilcox: interesting point. though even there he could do 2 of 2 locking.
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1262 2013-08-16 20:37:01 <iwilcox> Think I need to sit down with paper to see how that part works.
1263 2013-08-16 20:37:07 <iwilcox> My poor brain.
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1272 2013-08-16 20:47:26 <deego> In bitcoind listtransactions, is there a way to filter by unixtime? Instead of by count and from? The reason i want that is that the latter changes as more transactions are sent.
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1274 2013-08-16 20:49:29 <deego> That is, I'm trying to filter all transactions that happened for 2012.
1275 2013-08-16 20:50:04 <deego> (2) How do I ask bitcoind to list the total number of transactions?
1276 2013-08-16 20:50:17 <handle> iirc it's a bad idea to rely on listtransactions - beyond that I'm no use, sorry
1277 2013-08-16 20:50:20 <deego> I could bitcoind listtransactions *  and filter, but that seems excessive.
1278 2013-08-16 20:50:33 <deego> handle: Oh? :( Why's tat?
1279 2013-08-16 20:50:59 <handle> because due to things like orphan blocks, some already existing transactions may become invalid
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1281 2013-08-16 20:51:12 <handle> and so by just doing a delta of time, you're missing a bunch of changes
1282 2013-08-16 20:51:17 <deego> Ah.
1283 2013-08-16 20:54:18 <helo> i think listtransactions is ok to rely on, as long as you pay attention to confirmations and reorgs
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1288 2013-08-16 20:56:40 <helo> i.e. listen to walletnotify
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1291 2013-08-16 20:58:35 <deego> helo: Yeah, I'm querying for past data, in any case. I was trying to find a way to code a script that reliably isolates 2012's transactions, but it looks like the count and from paramaters will change with time.. there's listsinceblock, but that there's no corresponding listuntil. So, no way to avoid an "excessive" call.
1292 2013-08-16 20:58:45 <deego> I could just store the transactions myself. :)
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1301 2013-08-16 21:14:21 <moarrr> Luke-Jr: Id like to thank you
1302 2013-08-16 21:15:12 <Luke-Jr> already? but probably off-topic in here
1303 2013-08-16 21:15:27 <moarrr> Luke-Jr: Well, thanks to you I cant seem to rate anyone... as your one step away from nanotube
1304 2013-08-16 21:15:40 <Luke-Jr> yes, that sounds off-topic in here.
1305 2013-08-16 21:15:53 <moarrr> Luke-Jr: Yeh, I think it is
1306 2013-08-16 21:16:31 <moarrr> Luke-Jr: Thanks for making my life that one bit more difficult than it already is, much apprechiated
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1330 2013-08-16 21:53:41 <sipa> Cusipzzz: git head has a dumpwallet/importwallet RPC command
1331 2013-08-16 21:53:53 <sipa> which dumps all keys in a human-readable format
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1334 2013-08-16 21:57:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa, if a filterload is successful, will a simple getdata for a block be filtered?
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1337 2013-08-16 22:00:28 <sipa> phantomcircuit: only if you ask for a filtered block
1338 2013-08-16 22:00:46 <sipa> but once filterload is succesful, lone transactions do get filtered
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1340 2013-08-16 22:01:52 <phantomcircuit> oh i see MSG_FILTERED_BLOCK
1341 2013-08-16 22:02:10 <sipa> indeed
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1349 2013-08-16 22:10:31 <tekkentux> heyho, I'll still could not get my getwork bases miner to work. So for further debugging I added some print statements into the bitcoind's sourcecode, to see how it verifies the data.
1350 2013-08-16 22:11:18 <tekkentux> but I cannot see the printf output, although in gdb I can even see, that the printf line is executed. Any idea why the output is hidden?
1351 2013-08-16 22:11:45 <tekkentux> is there some printf override, or supression done somehow in bitcoind?
1352 2013-08-16 22:12:46 <gmaxwell> tekkentux: printf in the reference client codebase goes into debug.log
1353 2013-08-16 22:12:59 <gmaxwell> if you don't want that, set it to log to the console, or use fprintf(stdout,
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1355 2013-08-16 22:13:52 <tekkentux> ah ok thx
1356 2013-08-16 22:16:09 <tekkentux> lol ok I could have noticed that myself... sometimes it helps to read the --help output, sorry
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1361 2013-08-16 22:21:08 <Cusipzzz> sipa: thanks
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