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15 2013-09-02 00:17:59 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: there are users on some version of debian who are reporting signature validation errors.
16 2013-09-02 00:18:47 <gmaxwell> my best theory is that some behavior difference in some dependency (or the compiler) is exposing an issue, but I have no idea if the issue is in the bitcoin code or otherwise.
17 2013-09-02 00:20:35 <phantomcircuit> oh
18 2013-09-02 00:20:37 <phantomcircuit> hmm
19 2013-09-02 00:20:43 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, what version of debian?
20 2013-09-02 00:21:33 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: i've heard that as well, one of those bugs trickled down into Ubuntu but was "Invalid"'d after a while because it was proven wrong.
21 2013-09-02 00:22:01 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: current sid/unsable
22 2013-09-02 00:22:09 <gmaxwell> er unstable.
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26 2013-09-02 00:22:39 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, <self interested tangent> another reason to switch to sipa's libsecp256k1
27 2013-09-02 00:22:39 <jcorgan> hmm, ipsec vpn doesn't work over hotel network, but Tor does :)
28 2013-09-02 00:22:45 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: sometimes people get just random corruption from bad hardware, so there are some bogus reports too... but this issue on debian is quite repeatable for some people and doesn't appear to be hardware.
29 2013-09-02 00:22:51 <jgarzik> has the side effect of embedded our signature checking code in repo
30 2013-09-02 00:22:59 <jgarzik> no OpenSSL differences, fewer compiler variations
31 2013-09-02 00:23:13 <jgarzik> no Fedora problems
32 2013-09-02 00:23:24 <jgarzik> *embedding
33 2013-09-02 00:23:30 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yup. It's a ton of wins. I think we will eventually.
34 2013-09-02 00:24:21 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: got a bug number?
35 2013-09-02 00:25:06 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: the best report is here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2726
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39 2013-09-02 00:27:21 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: ah. i see. that hasn't yet reached the debian bug trackers, so maybe it should be added to the debian BTS as a bug.
40 2013-09-02 00:27:33 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: although i see something more problematic... who maintains the package for bitcoin in Debian?
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42 2013-09-02 00:28:34 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: well bitcoin in debian has other problems, e.g. they're ripping out our embeded leveldb and swapping in a questionable patched up one, and also applying a number of other patches that no one from bitcoin core has reviewed.
43 2013-09-02 00:28:46 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=718272 <-- related?
44 2013-09-02 00:28:58 <gmaxwell> But my understanding is that these issues on unstable happen to people running our source from git without the patches too.
45 2013-09-02 00:29:00 <TheLordOfTime> looks like one of a billion unfixed issues
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47 2013-09-02 00:29:24 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: okay, that means Ubuntu has the bugs then, because `bitcoin` in Ubuntu by default is pulled from Debian
48 2013-09-02 00:29:37 * TheLordOfTime wouldn't mind replacing the version in Debian with the PPA versions that're maintained by someone from ehre
49 2013-09-02 00:29:39 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: uhg. "Don't do that."
50 2013-09-02 00:29:46 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: heh
51 2013-09-02 00:30:05 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: there's enough there to get it removed AFAICT from Debian :/
52 2013-09-02 00:30:09 <gmaxwell> Bluematt had been maintaining a ubuntu ppa ... we should probably update the gitian process to write out a ppa too, in addition to our normal binaries. But I know nothing of ppas.
53 2013-09-02 00:30:52 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: its actually unusable in unstable, at least on multicore systems, it just dies syncing the chain. Gotta love completely untested packages. :P
54 2013-09-02 00:31:24 <gmaxwell> (not that bitcoin-test detects the problem here, AFAIK, but the debian package doesn't even run it on non-crosscompiled builds)
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56 2013-09-02 00:34:00 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: there's a Debian team that maintains this apparently
57 2013-09-02 00:34:28 <phantomcircuit> er
58 2013-09-02 00:34:28 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2726#issuecomment-21622639
59 2013-09-02 00:34:29 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: if you can support me with the claim I might be able to get it removed from Debian and Ubuntu. I'm checking the Ubuntu packages now, but they're outdated and I don't have the latest from Debian
60 2013-09-02 00:34:41 <TheLordOfTime> i'd like upstream dev support on that removal request too
61 2013-09-02 00:34:45 <phantomcircuit> has anybody considered that he ran bitcoind -daemon and not ./bitcoind -daemon ?
62 2013-09-02 00:34:46 <TheLordOfTime> then maybe assign BlueMatt as the sole maintainer
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64 2013-09-02 00:35:23 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: good question! can you ask?
65 2013-09-02 00:36:31 <phantomcircuit> yeah
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72 2013-09-02 00:46:01 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: can you do me a favor and compile a list of all the issues reported of the package not working in Debian? I'm going to partly use that and my own testing to try and get the package removed/blacklisted in Ubuntu, and then possibly Debian
73 2013-09-02 00:46:10 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: at least, reported on the github tracker.
74 2013-09-02 00:46:15 * TheLordOfTime is doing his own testing too
75 2013-09-02 00:46:45 <Belxjander> TheLordOfTime: what package?
76 2013-09-02 00:46:55 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: 'bitcoin'
77 2013-09-02 00:46:56 <gmaxwell> I'd really like to understand the actual issue first. Otherwise I would have been gun-ho on getting it removed already.
78 2013-09-02 00:47:07 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: but it does fail to sync the blockchain?
79 2013-09-02 00:47:16 <TheLordOfTime> in comparison to, say, BlueMatt's PPA version which I KNOW syncs the chain
80 2013-09-02 00:47:32 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: specifically, there's reports debian's version is (1) butchered, and (2) unusable
81 2013-09-02 00:47:45 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: and as long as that remains the case, I can at least get it removed in ubuntu (which may trickle down to Mint)
82 2013-09-02 00:47:59 <TheLordOfTime> or try to get it removed
83 2013-09-02 00:48:27 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: bluematt's ppa works fine indeed. I don't know if anything currently fails on ubuntu. I know it fails on debian unstable. I'd like to know if the bug is ours or theirs, and at least current reports (ignoring phantom circuit's theory) suggest that removing the package doesn't fix it. (because it's reported even binaries compiled directly from git also fail)
84 2013-09-02 00:48:44 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: the failure to use hte blockchain?
85 2013-09-02 00:48:44 <gmaxwell> (Bluematt's ppa would work simply because it's mostly static, iirc)
86 2013-09-02 00:48:46 <Belxjander> TheLordOfTime: I find most non-source packages get butchered...and a few source based ones too
87 2013-09-02 00:48:59 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: yeah, well, in ubuntu there's methods that i can use to blacklist the Debian package
88 2013-09-02 00:49:06 <TheLordOfTime> and then we can force everyone to use BlueMatt's PPA which works
89 2013-09-02 00:49:17 <Belxjander> good
90 2013-09-02 00:49:35 <phantomcircuit> upgrading a wheezy vm to sid now
91 2013-09-02 00:49:48 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the invalid block stuff should contain a ton more information
92 2013-09-02 00:49:53 <gmaxwell> and yea, debian has no business modifying itâ but at the same time, I don't want to go flaming them too much on that until I understand the failure.
93 2013-09-02 00:49:58 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: i'm downloading Ubuntu Saucy, which is the first release it'd get removed from
94 2013-09-02 00:50:05 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: i can poke the maintainer team and ask why they butchered the code
95 2013-09-02 00:50:17 <TheLordOfTime> they ahve a mailing list http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/bitcoin.html <-- useful
96 2013-09-02 00:50:18 <phantomcircuit> it's a rare enough and important enough occurrence that it should be lots of info
97 2013-09-02 00:50:25 <phantomcircuit> even if it's mostly nonsense to users
98 2013-09-02 00:50:27 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it actually gives what we would need to know here, a signature validation failed. The specific failure point is non-determinstic, so it's unlikely that looking at the signature would help.
99 2013-09-02 00:50:44 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: my biggest complaint is that it gets burried in the logs, debug.log is full of worthless noise.
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101 2013-09-02 00:51:19 <gmaxwell> In particular debug log reports a bunch of "ERROR" for things that are totally normal, harmless, and expected.. so when users have issues they fret about the error lines and also report them rather than the important ones.
102 2013-09-02 00:51:24 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, iirc there are a number of ways VerifySignature can fail though
103 2013-09-02 00:52:04 <gmaxwell> true, what we should at least do is for signatures in blocks log the data that was being validated.
104 2013-09-02 00:52:18 <gmaxwell> (outside of blocks is a problem because logging a bunch there is a dos vector :( )
105 2013-09-02 00:52:25 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: phantomcircuit: what exactly do i look for in the debug logs to confirm failure to sync?
106 2013-09-02 00:52:32 <TheLordOfTime> at least, part of a string that i can pull as evidence
107 2013-09-02 00:52:35 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: INVALID
108 2013-09-02 00:52:51 <gmaxwell> (I might have the case wrong there, is it Invalid? will have to look)
109 2013-09-02 00:53:00 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: okay. and 'VALID' would be the data to look for in, say, BlueMatt's PPA version or a source-built version?
110 2013-09-02 00:53:05 <TheLordOfTime> (i'm going to test both of those to confirm)
111 2013-09-02 00:53:12 <TheLordOfTime> (so a total of 3 tests)
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113 2013-09-02 00:53:48 <gmaxwell> no, valid doesn't get logged. the thing to look for is it just making it up to the current height. e.g. "blocks" : 255591,
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116 2013-09-02 00:54:25 <gmaxwell> you can probably make the broken ones fail faster by running with -checkpoints=0
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118 2013-09-02 00:55:07 <phantomcircuit> lol who actually reads the dist-upgrade changelogs
119 2013-09-02 00:55:19 <phantomcircuit> seriously im dist-upgrade'ing to unstable
120 2013-09-02 00:55:23 <phantomcircuit> im not reading that stuff
121 2013-09-02 00:57:21 <tgs3> base-system notice (urgency: HIGH)
122 2013-09-02 00:57:27 <tgs3> * installing this packages can make you gay
123 2013-09-02 00:57:57 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, fabulous
124 2013-09-02 00:58:07 <phantomcircuit> wait wat
125 2013-09-02 00:58:18 * tgs3 puts TODO to do this for real when occasion arises
126 2013-09-02 00:59:19 <phantomcircuit> tgs3, bump the version number of your LICENSE by a subversion and add a clause requiring all distributors to love their neighbors
127 2013-09-02 00:59:32 <phantomcircuit> proceed to laugh when debian finds out and cant figure out what to do
128 2013-09-02 00:59:51 <tgs3> heh
129 2013-09-02 00:59:59 <gmaxwell> "no no, it's all fine because on a DESERT ISLAND you have no neighbors!"
130 2013-09-02 01:00:33 <tgs3> except toad. hypno toad
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133 2013-09-02 01:08:24 <gmaxwell> oh #@$@ is debian unstable now shipping random bitcoin from git?$@$#@$@#$?#@$
134 2013-09-02 01:09:28 <phantomcircuit> lol are they?
135 2013-09-02 01:11:23 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, correct me if im wrong but uh
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137 2013-09-02 01:11:32 <phantomcircuit> 0.8.3-2 is not a release
138 2013-09-02 01:11:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286013.msg3060553
139 2013-09-02 01:12:09 <gmaxwell> seems it's just a user compiling from git themselves and I was misreading a bit, I asked to clarify.
140 2013-09-02 01:12:55 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: and right debian is shipping some patched up stuff. Which is bad but may be unrelated to the issues we're having there. (super bad considering whomever is packaging it is clearly not even testing it)
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146 2013-09-02 01:16:53 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: 0.8.3-2 = 0.8.3 + debian packaging + second revision by Debian
147 2013-09-02 01:17:22 <phantomcircuit> * Use included leveldb instead of system library. See debian/README.source
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149 2013-09-02 01:17:24 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: debian packaging doesn't accept just the version number. 0.8.3 is the base "version" that is either from upstream or based on upstream, and -# is the revision number, -1 being initial, -2 being initial + 1 revision...
150 2013-09-02 01:17:25 <TheLordOfTime> etc.
151 2013-09-02 01:17:29 <phantomcircuit> seems like they're cherrypicking stuff
152 2013-09-02 01:17:34 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: they have to for revisions
153 2013-09-02 01:17:39 <TheLordOfTime> that's Debian / Ubuntu bugfixing policy
154 2013-09-02 01:17:51 <TheLordOfTime> until there's a new version that includes the fixes in which case unstable gets that
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156 2013-09-02 01:18:00 <TheLordOfTime> but Ubuntu isn't fixable like Debian is, if it's broken it'll stay broken
157 2013-09-02 01:18:19 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, i dont believe anything fixed in leveldb had anythign to do with linux
158 2013-09-02 01:18:23 <TheLordOfTime> also, if ANY of you have bugtracker links that have any Debian or Ubuntu relation, feel free to share them with me.
159 2013-09-02 01:18:25 <phantomcircuit> iirc that was all intended to fix OSX
160 2013-09-02 01:18:30 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: *shrugs* it's Debian. i don't understand themn
161 2013-09-02 01:18:32 <phantomcircuit> so a debian bug fix for an OS X issue
162 2013-09-02 01:19:03 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: i can report that on the BTS if (a) that's the issue and (b) you show me the leveldb upstream info about that.
163 2013-09-02 01:19:09 <TheLordOfTime> maybe THEN it might work
164 2013-09-02 01:19:14 <TheLordOfTime> assumign this IS the source of the problems.
165 2013-09-02 01:19:58 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, im just going to killall -9 bitcoind randomly for a few hours and see what i can break
166 2013-09-02 01:20:07 flywind has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
167 2013-09-02 01:20:09 <TheLordOfTime> (still, Debian butchers the code so much I wouldn't mind forcing Ubuntu people to use BlueMatt's PPA which works)
168 2013-09-02 01:20:24 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
169 2013-09-02 01:20:24 <gribble> 255598
170 2013-09-02 01:20:27 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: feel free to share results if you want.
171 2013-09-02 01:20:50 <TheLordOfTime> preferably somewhere public other than IRC reports.
172 2013-09-02 01:20:51 <TheLordOfTime> :P
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176 2013-09-02 01:21:50 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: any bugs in Debian, please report them on the Debian BTS
177 2013-09-02 01:21:59 <TheLordOfTime> because that DESPERATELY needs the help.
178 2013-09-02 01:22:08 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: then i can further use that as evidence towards removal.
179 2013-09-02 01:23:03 <gmaxwell> careful, you don't want to inspire more bullshit patches on debian.
180 2013-09-02 01:23:20 <gmaxwell> I'd take a bet that if you post to much they'll monkey patch it to deactivate parallel signature validation.
181 2013-09-02 01:23:38 <gmaxwell> s/to/too/
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184 2013-09-02 01:26:47 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: and then it'll fully break but by that point I'll have had the package removed from autosync with Debian on Ubuntu
185 2013-09-02 01:26:52 <TheLordOfTime> so... my half will be fixed :p
186 2013-09-02 01:27:05 <TheLordOfTime> fixed by E: No Longer Included In Ubuntu
187 2013-09-02 01:28:12 <phantomcircuit> heh
188 2013-09-02 01:28:31 <phantomcircuit> processing blocks faster than tail -f can read from debug.log
189 2013-09-02 01:29:19 <gmaxwell> yea, I think early in the chain the logging actually slows it down now.
190 2013-09-02 01:29:46 <gmaxwell> I think I'd like to move most of the non-critical failure logging into an in-memory ringbuffer.
191 2013-09-02 01:29:47 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: CLI argument -debug enables debug logging?
192 2013-09-02 01:30:31 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: yes, I suggest technical people run with logtimestamps=1 debug=1 (which also turns on a few more asserts)
193 2013-09-02 01:30:43 <gmaxwell> debug also disables the autolog rotation.
194 2013-09-02 01:31:27 <gmaxwell> If we used only in-memory logging we could also log more potentially privacy violating data.. and on crash save the end of that log in out dying gasp.
195 2013-09-02 01:31:50 <gmaxwell> e.g. so you'd actually learn which @#$@ peer gave you the poison pill transaction that killed your node.
196 2013-09-02 01:33:17 <TheLordOfTime> heh
197 2013-09-02 01:33:30 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: there should be a global blacklist of nodes that do stupid stuff like that IMO
198 2013-09-02 01:33:38 <TheLordOfTime> but of course, that'll be harder to implement, maybe, than it sounds.
199 2013-09-02 01:34:11 <gmaxwell> ...
200 2013-09-02 01:34:18 <gmaxwell> "Global blacklist"
201 2013-09-02 01:34:27 <TheLordOfTime> ... ehehehe, apparently someone heard i'm on the warpath to remove bitcoin from Ubuntu and Debian and is asking questions in priv...
202 2013-09-02 01:34:57 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: a list of "bad nodes" on IPs or proxies, but that's like having DNSBLs: they're constantly changing.
203 2013-09-02 01:35:02 <gmaxwell> pointless in any case, knowing the peer is useful so someone else can go and try to replicate the behavior.
204 2013-09-02 01:35:04 <TheLordOfTime> mhm
205 2013-09-02 01:35:30 <gmaxwell> thats all, if the peer is actually malicious it'll be some ever shifting tor node or 0wned host, blacklisting has basically no value for us.
206 2013-09-02 01:35:55 <TheLordOfTime> mhm
207 2013-09-02 01:35:57 <gmaxwell> and potential costs too. Instead we just accept that the world is a hostile place and build software that works regardless.
208 2013-09-02 01:36:14 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: you're testing sid right?
209 2013-09-02 01:36:19 <TheLordOfTime> aka unstable
210 2013-09-02 01:38:57 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: share your results from testing Debian, because I'd rather *not* dump more disk space on this temporary system for another VM
211 2013-09-02 01:42:19 <phantomcircuit> shit
212 2013-09-02 01:42:27 <phantomcircuit> i managed to install this snapshot on the wrong drive
213 2013-09-02 01:42:32 <phantomcircuit> out of disk space
214 2013-09-02 01:42:33 <phantomcircuit> >.>
215 2013-09-02 01:44:11 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Debian should just package some official release as-is and pull stable backports >.>
216 2013-09-02 01:44:34 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: lol
217 2013-09-02 01:44:49 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: it's Debian, they butcher everything.,
218 2013-09-02 01:45:03 <Luke-Jr> sigh
219 2013-09-02 01:45:04 <TheLordOfTime> the only nonbutchered package i think is 'nginx' because the code matches upstream to a tee
220 2013-09-02 01:45:11 <TheLordOfTime> except for patches, which are made from upstream anyways
221 2013-09-02 01:45:12 <TheLordOfTime> so...
222 2013-09-02 01:45:22 <TheLordOfTime> oh and the 'znc' package :p
223 2013-09-02 01:45:26 <TheLordOfTime> (same situation)
224 2013-09-02 01:45:44 <gmaxwell> They don't even submit their patches unstream, pretty horrifying.
225 2013-09-02 01:45:54 <Luke-Jr> Debian wants me to do whatever to maintain their bfgminer package
226 2013-09-02 01:45:56 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: seriously though share your results, if you want you can put your results on github or something and share that info with me
227 2013-09-02 01:46:01 <gmaxwell> I wonder if I give them a patch that backdoors bitcoin if they'll take it?
228 2013-09-02 01:46:04 <Luke-Jr> maybe I should deal with that, then maintain bitcoind/bitcoin-qt for them as well
229 2013-09-02 01:46:19 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: you'd want to do it under a pseudonym
230 2013-09-02 01:46:24 <gmaxwell> sure.
231 2013-09-02 01:46:32 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: if you took over bfgminer package in Debian, think you could let me borrow the fruits of your labor and make it be included in Ubuntu correctly?
232 2013-09-02 01:46:41 <TheLordOfTime> because as it stands Debian needs to be cleaned with fire...
233 2013-09-02 01:46:47 <TheLordOfTime> no offense to Debian users, of course.
234 2013-09-02 01:46:53 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: won't adding it to Debian automatically add it to Ubuntu?
235 2013-09-02 01:47:02 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: no...
236 2013-09-02 01:47:04 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: not right now, i'd have to request a sync for the dev version
237 2013-09-02 01:47:13 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: it wouldn't be included at this point until 14.04
238 2013-09-02 01:47:16 <TheLordOfTime> because autosync is off now
239 2013-09-02 01:47:16 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: the Debian 'bitcoin' team actually already made source packages for bfgminer, they just want me to do some final touches I'm not really sure what I think
240 2013-09-02 01:47:30 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: tell them you want to take over sole maintainershipo
241 2013-09-02 01:47:33 <TheLordOfTime> because it's your code
242 2013-09-02 01:47:36 <TheLordOfTime> then make the package actually work
243 2013-09-02 01:47:40 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: Ubuntu pulls a lot from debian but does thier own post-butcher-carcass cleaning
244 2013-09-02 01:47:45 <Luke-Jr> the bfgminer package they have should work..
245 2013-09-02 01:47:55 <TheLordOfTime> while you're there tell the Debian bitcoin team someone says for them to shoot themselves.
246 2013-09-02 01:47:57 <Luke-Jr> or you mean bitcoind?
247 2013-09-02 01:48:06 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
248 2013-09-02 01:48:13 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: "they" as in Debian or "they" as in ubuntu?
249 2013-09-02 01:48:20 <Luke-Jr> Debian
250 2013-09-02 01:48:24 <TheLordOfTime> ah
251 2013-09-02 01:48:29 <Luke-Jr> the only bfgminer for Ubuntu afaik is the one unit3 does in a PPA
252 2013-09-02 01:48:39 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: and what's autosynced from Unstable
253 2013-09-02 01:48:49 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: so if the packages in Unstable right now are broken, they'll be broken in Ubuntu 13.10
254 2013-09-02 01:48:49 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: ?
255 2013-09-02 01:48:59 <Luke-Jr> I'm lost
256 2013-09-02 01:49:02 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: Ubuntu development: they sync from unstable for a list of packages
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258 2013-09-02 01:49:11 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: so what's in Debian Unstable now is also in Ubuntu Saucy's repositories
259 2013-09-02 01:49:18 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: AFAIK there is no broken Debian bfgminer, just bitcoind
260 2013-09-02 01:49:21 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: good.
261 2013-09-02 01:49:27 <TheLordOfTime> then that's one less thing I have to worry about
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263 2013-09-02 01:49:40 * TheLordOfTime continues loading a VM to start testing to remove bitcoin from Ubuntu for E: Broken
264 2013-09-02 01:50:21 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: still, I wouldn't let any Debian team touch my code with a ten foot pole, unless they paid me billions of dollars, they have a track-record of fubaring packages
265 2013-09-02 01:51:46 <Belxjander> TheLordOfTime: just don't do what I did and force apt-get to uninstall vim followed by a system reboot
266 2013-09-02 01:51:56 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: heh.
267 2013-09-02 01:52:00 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: you did that in Ubuntu?
268 2013-09-02 01:52:07 <Belxjander> I ended up having a system self-strip everything executable off a Debian system
269 2013-09-02 01:52:12 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: heh
270 2013-09-02 01:52:18 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: honestly? I leave everything as is normally.
271 2013-09-02 01:52:25 <TheLordOfTime> fix things by hand if they'll break
272 2013-09-02 01:52:30 <TheLordOfTime> but i'm by no means a debian dev
273 2013-09-02 01:52:31 * Belxjander has fubared a debian just making a symlink
274 2013-09-02 01:52:36 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: i did that twice
275 2013-09-02 01:52:39 <TheLordOfTime> but that was in a test VM
276 2013-09-02 01:52:44 <TheLordOfTime> on... oh wow, i forget how long ago that was
277 2013-09-02 01:52:59 <TheLordOfTime> ... what was Debian stable back in 2009...?
278 2013-09-02 01:53:09 <TheLordOfTime> 5 or 6?
279 2013-09-02 01:53:17 <Belxjander> TheLordOfTime: I did it three times directly on hardware then broke the debian disks and won't ever touch their non-compilable code ever again
280 2013-09-02 01:53:39 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: and now you know why I'm OK working with iUbuntu but I tell Debian to suck it
281 2013-09-02 01:53:48 <TheLordOfTime> except on certain packages because the code matches and/or I help maintain it.
282 2013-09-02 01:54:24 <Belxjander> TheLordOfTime: I have less of an opinion regards ubuntu and redhat and other "binary" package systems than I do about just getting sources and building the entire system "from scratch"
283 2013-09-02 01:54:33 * TheLordOfTime shrugs
284 2013-09-02 01:54:49 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: to each their own
285 2013-09-02 01:54:54 <Belxjander> yup
286 2013-09-02 01:55:04 <TheLordOfTime> at least someone here who uses Ubuntu has enough information and know-how to get bitcoin removed from Ubuntu
287 2013-09-02 01:55:22 <Belxjander> definitely
288 2013-09-02 01:55:39 <Belxjander> I wouldn't trust a non-source "bitcoind" with any kind of wallet personally
289 2013-09-02 01:55:53 <Belxjander> if given the choice at least
290 2013-09-02 01:56:02 <TheLordOfTime> Belxjander: i trust BlueMatt's PPAs, because those work and are from source code, although i triple encrypt my wallets anyways...
291 2013-09-02 01:56:14 <TheLordOfTime> so you have to decrypt said wallet BEFORE bitcoind / bitcoin-qt can read it
292 2013-09-02 01:59:54 <gmaxwell> As I said before, we really should get the gitian build process building the PPAs, but I know nothing about debian or ubuntu packaging or ppas.
293 2013-09-02 02:00:28 <gmaxwell> Bluematt knows about both ppas and gitian is the obvious person to do it, but he hasn't been very active lately... presumably busy with his studies.
294 2013-09-02 02:00:36 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: PPAs use bzr if iwe set up an autobuild recipe for the PPAs, but the Ubuntu packages need to be separately uploaded/maintained and they need a good reason to permanently split off of Debian autosync
295 2013-09-02 02:00:41 <TheLordOfTime> although i'm still pursuing removing it from Ubuntu
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297 2013-09-02 02:03:26 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: the point there being that the ppas can be build determinstically so there is no particular need to trust the person who builds them.
298 2013-09-02 02:04:18 <TheLordOfTime> mhm
299 2013-09-02 02:04:26 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: however, i know some upstream teams maintain a PPA
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305 2013-09-02 02:10:49 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's impossible
306 2013-09-02 02:10:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: PPA = Canonical builds it
307 2013-09-02 02:11:11 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: PPA = anyone builds it. I have a dozen PPAs myself, their builders aren't all run by canonical
308 2013-09-02 02:11:26 <TheLordOfTime> the builders are automated, the packages and the code are from scratch Ubuntu chroots for the build environment
309 2013-09-02 02:11:29 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: I don't see any way to upload builds
310 2013-09-02 02:12:09 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr: you upload the source package, the system autobuilds it but it's a clean from scratch build chroot with only ubuntu core dependencies and the build-deps as stated in the package.
311 2013-09-02 02:12:20 <Luke-Jr> exactlyu
312 2013-09-02 02:12:22 <TheLordOfTime> but it's not "Canonical" that's building it
313 2013-09-02 02:12:29 <TheLordOfTime> it's "the build farm"
314 2013-09-02 02:12:31 <Luke-Jr> so there's no way to use gitian for it
315 2013-09-02 02:12:33 <TheLordOfTime> not all of it's maintained by canonical
316 2013-09-02 02:12:41 <Luke-Jr> that's even worse
317 2013-09-02 02:12:42 <TheLordOfTime> remind me what gitian is again?
318 2013-09-02 02:12:50 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: deterministic building, using a VM
319 2013-09-02 02:13:06 <gmaxwell> oh thats crud.
320 2013-09-02 02:13:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: perhaps we could get the canonical build to match the determinstic one with some proper kicking?
321 2013-09-02 02:13:47 <Luke-Jr> maybe
322 2013-09-02 02:13:49 <phantomcircuit> lolol
323 2013-09-02 02:14:04 <phantomcircuit> and maybe you'll run into a unicorn selling pixie dust
324 2013-09-02 02:14:24 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it's not really a stretch
325 2013-09-02 02:14:34 <phantomcircuit> i bet they dont even produce binaries consistent between themselves...
326 2013-09-02 02:14:43 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: gitian's VM is Ubuntu itself
327 2013-09-02 02:16:07 [Author] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
328 2013-09-02 02:17:05 <gmaxwell> yea, it's not that unlikely that its fine.
329 2013-09-02 02:18:21 <gmaxwell> with enough work we could make a build script that actually bootstrapped the entire dependency chain inside the build enviroment and got a consistent result.
330 2013-09-02 02:18:32 <gmaxwell> "Hey, it's not _our_ cpu cycles we're burning there"
331 2013-09-02 02:19:01 <Luke-Jr> something tells me there might be a resource limit :p
332 2013-09-02 02:20:10 <gmaxwell> I dunno, you'd be surprised. Someone eventually noticed on the debian build farm that one of my packages was taking 1.5 weeks to finish its make check when building. (Their build settings were wrong and they were building with fpu on an arch that had only software emulation).. but they only noticed because it was delaying the package releases.
333 2013-09-02 02:20:20 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, stick a cpu miner into the bootstrap process
334 2013-09-02 02:20:23 <phantomcircuit> ???
335 2013-09-02 02:20:24 <phantomcircuit> profit
336 2013-09-02 02:21:24 [Author] has joined
337 2013-09-02 02:21:36 <Luke-Jr> btw, I told vbuterin he should hang out here more
338 2013-09-02 02:23:14 <gmaxwell> Really the whole gitian thing depending on a random ubuntu vm is a bit lame in any case. It's a good start but better could be done.
339 2013-09-02 02:23:25 <gmaxwell> It's ashame we have so many non-trivial dependencies though.
340 2013-09-02 02:23:32 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'd like to get Gentoo's portage made deterministic :P
341 2013-09-02 02:24:06 <Luke-Jr> then the whole OS can be verified
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343 2013-09-02 02:24:57 <Luke-Jr> *and* have real dependency management
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355 2013-09-02 02:54:30 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: what command line arguments do you suggest I use to get the information i need for this testing?
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359 2013-09-02 02:57:41 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: who reported the package broken? It seems to be syncing right in Ubuntu, and that's directly from Debian
360 2013-09-02 02:57:46 <TheLordOfTime> or is there a specific point where it fails to sync
361 2013-09-02 02:58:42 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: it fails at a fairly high point around block 240000 and I have never seen a reported failure on ubuntu that I considered credible.
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363 2013-09-02 02:59:24 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: okay, i'm testing myself right now, on the version from Debian
364 2013-09-02 02:59:34 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: if/when it fails i'll document that as a bug
365 2013-09-02 02:59:46 <TheLordOfTime> and the failuire is consistently able to be replicated in the Debian version near that point?
366 2013-09-02 02:59:57 <TheLordOfTime> based on reports so far
367 2013-09-02 03:02:13 <gmaxwell> Based on reports. In the debian version ON DEBIAN UNSTABLE. No reports of this not on debian unstable.
368 2013-09-02 03:02:34 <TheLordOfTime> okay, Ubuntu Saucy's version of bitcoin-qt is direct from Debian Unstable without any code changes
369 2013-09-02 03:02:48 <TheLordOfTime> so if it breaks in Ubuntu then i'll work on the Ubuntu side, before moving to attacking the Debian side
370 2013-09-02 03:03:00 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: but it consistently fails around 200k + blocks?
371 2013-09-02 03:03:06 <TheLordOfTime> (give or take 40k)
372 2013-09-02 03:03:55 <gmaxwell> so it is reported. (Though if you're testing you should let it sync up to current before calling it working)
373 2013-09-02 03:04:27 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: mhm
374 2013-09-02 03:05:06 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: if it fails once, i'll have that, then wipe the data directory and start again, saving the debug.log each time, so if i can repeatedly replicate it then it's a bad bug.
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391 2013-09-02 03:42:25 <Krellan> gmaxwell: I updated my pull request for ping/pong, I instrumented it to log more anomalies but so far haven't seen any, unfortunately. Wanted to find out what those weird clients were.
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394 2013-09-02 03:51:25 <Luke-Jr> Krellan: oh, is that why I was ping flooding? <.<
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396 2013-09-02 03:52:10 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, lol
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408 2013-09-02 04:15:05 <maaku> i'm looking at the code but not sure the answer to this : is it legal to OP_PUSHDATAn , when n is strictly greater than necessary?
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410 2013-09-02 04:17:07 <Krellan> Luke-Jr: :)
411 2013-09-02 04:19:34 <Krellan> gmaxwell: Checked the log again and did notice something from last night. Received some pongs even when there was no outstanding ping. The nonce in those pongs was all 0. http://pastebin.com/rQwRN1i1
412 2013-09-02 04:20:23 <Krellan> They happened over the space of a few hours, not all bunched together, and all versions reported /Satoshi:0.8.99/
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461 2013-09-02 06:40:36 <jorash> anyone knwo where the cointerra people hang out (if on irc at all
462 2013-09-02 06:40:38 <jorash> )?
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464 2013-09-02 06:43:00 <sipa> maaku: in theory legal, but ugly, and there's a pull request to just make it illegal
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524 2013-09-02 09:24:05 <warren> is anyone running into the RPC stalling issue with 0.8.2+?
525 2013-09-02 09:24:21 <warren> it's related to the complaints about getwork causing other RPC's to stall
526 2013-09-02 09:24:27 <warren> something to do with keep-alive
527 2013-09-02 09:27:20 <gmaxwell> see double's comments in here he gave a reproduction program.
528 2013-09-02 09:27:32 <gmaxwell> (can't ask for more than that!)
529 2013-09-02 09:28:21 <warren> one of our users is compiling in a larger RPC thread limit to workaround the issue ...
530 2013-09-02 09:28:25 <warren> s/4/64/
531 2013-09-02 09:29:41 <gmaxwell> seems like not a great idea to me.
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542 2013-09-02 09:45:54 <tgs3> gmaxwell: debian patches are bad?
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545 2013-09-02 09:48:50 <gmaxwell> I have no idea, I've never reviewed them, they've never even been submitted for our review AFAIK. I do know that users report bitcoin in debian unstable does not work correctly now, though that may have nothing to do with the patches (and there is even some evidence that it doesn't)
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550 2013-09-02 09:57:53 <jouke> thread limit?
551 2013-09-02 09:57:59 <jouke> amount of threads?
552 2013-09-02 10:04:05 MinerMan has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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555 2013-09-02 10:08:06 <tgs3> gmaxwell: what process of a distribution patching bitcoin would please you? :)
556 2013-09-02 10:08:24 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
557 2013-09-02 10:08:35 <tgs3> like, distro discovers bitcoind say uses random memory write&execute (like java, firefox) and replaces it to make code safer and compatible with grsecurity
558 2013-09-02 10:09:09 Subo1977 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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564 2013-09-02 10:13:46 <gmaxwell> and leaves it insecure for all other users with simultaneously indirectly announcing (whatever) vulnerability to the world? Or haphazardly changing code which they do not understand and leaving the software completely insecure as debian did with openssl?
565 2013-09-02 10:14:07 guruvan has joined
566 2013-09-02 10:14:33 <gmaxwell> The bitcoin core development team is reachable on IRC nearly 24/7. There is an official private security list for it that can be emailed. Patches can be submitted for review on github.
567 2013-09-02 10:14:52 <gmaxwell> Silently patching things and shipping things out to users is pretty much the worst possible path.
568 2013-09-02 10:15:36 sensorii has joined
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570 2013-09-02 10:16:03 <gmaxwell> Doubly so since the fact that debian unstable bitcoin not syncing the chain suggests that the parties responsible for the package are not testing it.
571 2013-09-02 10:16:21 <gmaxwell> If we're rejecting some change than thats another matter, but at least then there would be an oppturnity for review and a reason given for suggesting it.
572 2013-09-02 10:18:37 <tgs3> gmaxwell: ok we will keep this in mind ;)
573 2013-09-02 10:18:50 Guest80624 has joined
574 2013-09-02 10:19:29 <gmaxwell> Who is we?
575 2013-09-02 10:22:07 abrkn\ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
576 2013-09-02 10:22:17 <tgs3> there is new distribution in planning, to be most secure+private one, I'm helping
577 2013-09-02 10:23:37 <tgs3> by taking best possible software like tor, Qubes-OS, selected hardware, bitcoin :-) vpns and everything and preconfiguring it.. like tails or johndonym but even more (and installable)
578 2013-09-02 10:23:59 <gmaxwell> I'd recommend not packaging the Bitcoin software. Separately, if you're doing something security&privacy oriented, I hope your distribution will do something like gitian so the binaries are reproducable.
579 2013-09-02 10:24:00 <tgs3> (aimed at being primary system, with option to live-cd maybe, not viceversa)
580 2013-09-02 10:24:17 <tgs3> gmaxwell: yes, we work on verificable builds righ now
581 2013-09-02 10:24:22 <gmaxwell> Fantastic!
582 2013-09-02 10:24:24 <tgs3> :-)
583 2013-09-02 10:25:09 <gmaxwell> (okay, well, if you're going to be that focused maybe I'd downgrade my recommendation not to ship bitcoin... :) ... but keep in mind: Bitcoin is a consensus protocol, and at times running an old version is a security problem for the user even if it didn't use to have any bugs)
584 2013-09-02 10:26:09 <tgs3> we will upgrade such software in matter of days
585 2013-09-02 10:26:17 <tgs3> (I hope that is the plan)
586 2013-09-02 10:28:20 <gmaxwell> Okay, great. Well of course there is a transparency tradeoff ... rapid updates can't get much public review. But sure, my concern _generally_ ends if the upgrade cycle, even just for user initiated upgrades, can be reduced to "a couple months"
587 2013-09-02 10:29:14 <tgs3> few month are doable
588 2013-09-02 10:29:24 <tgs3> :)
589 2013-09-02 10:31:59 <gmaxwell> as far as things like patches to make bitcoin more secure in a hardened enviroment, I'd very much like them upstream... I can't promise to instantly merge any of them, especially ones that were only useful on non-primary platforms... but making it stronger is certantly a goal.
590 2013-09-02 10:32:04 flywind has left ()
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592 2013-09-02 10:32:37 <tgs3> gmaxwell: ok. that was just an example. in general bitcoind is compatible with grsecurity (W^X / NX / noexec protection)
593 2013-09-02 10:34:54 <gmaxwell> yes, sure, some bitcoind users have those patches... (though there are some network behavior patches that have behaved poorly on interaction with the bitcoin network, but no one running grsecurity who has mentioned them has been technically adept enough to troubleshoot)
594 2013-09-02 10:35:48 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
595 2013-09-02 10:41:22 <tgs3> yeah, as I said, bitcoind (vanilla) is behaving nicelly with grsecurity too :)
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599 2013-09-02 10:47:23 <_dr> is there an easy way to set up a listen-only bitcoind? (i.e. don't relay blocks, etc.)
600 2013-09-02 10:48:00 <sipa> _dr: only connect to a sibgle peer?
601 2013-09-02 10:48:21 <sipa> depending on what your "etc." means
602 2013-09-02 10:49:49 <_dr> what I want is an up-to-date copy of the blockchain, without causing too much outbound traffic (which i have to pay for)
603 2013-09-02 10:50:10 <sipa> -connect=IP
604 2013-09-02 10:50:12 <_dr> maybe rsyncing .bitcoin/blocks of my full node would be a better idea
605 2013-09-02 10:54:57 ThomasV has joined
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615 2013-09-02 11:07:21 TD has left ("Leaving")
616 2013-09-02 11:07:24 TD has joined
617 2013-09-02 11:07:26 <TD> Good day
618 2013-09-02 11:07:40 <sipa> Greetings from Bratislava
619 2013-09-02 11:12:27 <gmaxwell> This is where I get to be american and admit that I had no idea where that was until I looked it up.
620 2013-09-02 11:13:42 <sipa> i'm sure the same would be true for most state capitals in the us for me
621 2013-09-02 11:15:03 <gmaxwell> yes, but thats also the case for most americans. (can't identify more than a few state capitals :P )
622 2013-09-02 11:16:04 <sipa> i took a night train to vienna, which had 2.5 delay "due to a police and rescue operation in germany", there i missed my connection to bratislava (which runs only every hour), where i missed my connection to poprad (whuh runs only every 4h), the latter of which seema to be full, so i get to take a later and even slower train
623 2013-09-02 11:16:04 tmsk has joined
624 2013-09-02 11:16:16 <sipa> yay for public transport
625 2013-09-02 11:16:38 <TD> bratislava is a nice city
626 2013-09-02 11:16:53 <sipa> total: 5.5h delay due to missed connections
627 2013-09-02 11:17:02 runeks has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
628 2013-09-02 11:17:08 <TD> when i came back via vienna the checkin lady asked where i'd been
629 2013-09-02 11:17:14 <TD> so i told her, and she said
630 2013-09-02 11:17:17 runeks has joined
631 2013-09-02 11:17:21 <TD> "bratislava? like in the horror movie?"
632 2013-09-02 11:17:25 <TD> (she means Hostel)
633 2013-09-02 11:17:27 <sipa> lol
634 2013-09-02 11:17:34 <TD> apparently that's what makes the city famous internationally these days
635 2013-09-02 11:17:44 <sipa> i've never seen it
636 2013-09-02 11:17:47 <TD> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostel_(2005_film)
637 2013-09-02 11:17:54 <TD> neither have i. horror isn't my thing
638 2013-09-02 11:17:54 <sipa> ok
639 2013-09-02 11:17:55 <TD> College students Paxton and Josh, along with their friend Ãli, are backpacking across Europe. After a night of partying, they meet a Dutch man named Alexei who informs them about an undocumented hostel near Bratislava filled with beautiful women.
640 2013-09-02 11:18:16 <sipa> Alexei is not a Dutch bame!
641 2013-09-02 11:18:19 <sipa> *name
642 2013-09-02 11:18:20 <TD> you can tell it's a US film because the names are all weird. dutch man named alexei?
643 2013-09-02 11:18:22 <TD> lol. beat me to it.
644 2013-09-02 11:18:30 <gmaxwell> hahah!
645 2013-09-02 11:18:41 <sipa> Alex or Alexander
646 2013-09-02 11:18:58 <TD> the stereotype of eastern europe being filled with beautiful women is also classic, albiet somewhat more accurate
647 2013-09-02 11:19:18 <TD> however in this case they torture and kill the travellers
648 2013-09-02 11:19:22 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
649 2013-09-02 11:19:38 <sipa> yeah, like 51% of the population is female here!
650 2013-09-02 11:19:38 <sipa> so different from google...
651 2013-09-02 11:19:52 <TD> hah
652 2013-09-02 11:20:35 <sipa> another apparently true stereotype: *everyone* is smoking here
653 2013-09-02 11:21:19 <TD> well, that's not a surprise to me. basically the further east you go the more smokers there are. the step up from UK->Switzerland was noticeable, Switzerland->former soviet bloc even moreso
654 2013-09-02 11:21:25 Dyaheon- has joined
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656 2013-09-02 11:21:41 <sipa> japan must be horrible!
657 2013-09-02 11:21:42 <TD> though the swiss smoke like crazy too. i think the only thing that "dilutes" it is the large number of northern european immigrants
658 2013-09-02 11:21:52 peetaur2 has joined
659 2013-09-02 11:22:11 <sipa> at least their train stations don't smell like tobacco
660 2013-09-02 11:22:14 <TD> unfortunately the brush i'm painting with isn't broad enough to reach japan
661 2013-09-02 11:22:29 <sipa> analogies are best when they break down
662 2013-09-02 11:22:47 <TD> a bad analogy is like a broken window .... actually n/m
663 2013-09-02 11:22:50 * TD -> lunch
664 2013-09-02 11:22:55 <sipa> cy
665 2013-09-02 11:22:57 <sipa> cya
666 2013-09-02 11:25:14 <gmaxwell> thats what the great wall of china must be blocking, all the smokers. :P
667 2013-09-02 11:25:41 one_zero has quit ()
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669 2013-09-02 11:30:17 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, there's a ton of smokers in china
670 2013-09-02 11:30:22 <phantomcircuit> it's not working very well
671 2013-09-02 11:30:45 <gmaxwell> Like many chinese firewalls!
672 2013-09-02 11:30:50 <phantomcircuit> lol
673 2013-09-02 11:33:18 epilido has quit (Quit: Leaving)
674 2013-09-02 11:35:52 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
675 2013-09-02 11:42:47 <TD> new cryptdb release, nice++
676 2013-09-02 11:45:18 agricocb has joined
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682 2013-09-02 12:14:27 reneg has joined
683 2013-09-02 12:15:29 <TD> sipa: you might find this paper interesting: http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/535.pdf
684 2013-09-02 12:15:39 <TD> it's about hardware acceleration of koblitz curve scalar mult
685 2013-09-02 12:15:58 <TD> actually for double lazy reduction of scalers into wNAF form
686 2013-09-02 12:16:04 <TD> scalars*
687 2013-09-02 12:17:32 parus has quit (Quit: leaving)
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692 2013-09-02 12:28:30 <sipa> TD: it's for actual koblitz curves
693 2013-09-02 12:28:46 <TD> ours is not an actual koblitz curve?
694 2013-09-02 12:28:58 <sipa> no, koblitz curves are over binary fields
695 2013-09-02 12:29:08 <sipa> we have a koblitz-like curve on a prime field
696 2013-09-02 12:29:18 <TD> ah
697 2013-09-02 12:29:20 <sipa> though perhaps the same applies
698 2013-09-02 12:29:29 <TD> well, do you have to reduce scalars to wNAF form?
699 2013-09-02 12:29:34 <sipa> yes
700 2013-09-02 12:29:36 <TD> i thought yes
701 2013-09-02 12:29:55 <TD> that's the part their proposed chip accelerates
702 2013-09-02 12:29:59 <TD> so i guess it might still apply?
703 2013-09-02 12:30:00 <sipa> well you don't have to, but it's much faster to do so
704 2013-09-02 12:30:05 <TD> right
705 2013-09-02 12:30:13 <TD> wNAF form is larger, but it's faster to perform the mult
706 2013-09-02 12:30:27 <gmaxwell> Wee: Mtgox spends immature coins .... now explains why customers in #mtgox have been complaining about not-relaying transactions for some time.
707 2013-09-02 12:30:32 bizoro_ has joined
708 2013-09-02 12:31:09 <TD> ah ha
709 2013-09-02 12:31:10 <gmaxwell> also, bc.i displays spends of immature coins, and doesn't even mark them as unusual.
710 2013-09-02 12:31:13 <sipa> TD: though iirc the time to compute the wNAF is very small compared to the actual EC operations
711 2013-09-02 12:31:27 reneg has joined
712 2013-09-02 12:32:01 <sipa> anyway, i'll read the paper but not on a cell phone in a train :)
713 2013-09-02 12:32:12 <TD> sure. also do we need montgomery multiplication anywhere?
714 2013-09-02 12:32:21 <TD> i thought the answer is yes but now i can't find any mention of it
715 2013-09-02 12:32:23 <sipa> no
716 2013-09-02 12:32:27 <TD> ok
717 2013-09-02 12:32:36 <sipa> at least my implementation doesn't use it
718 2013-09-02 12:33:26 <sipa> due to secp256k1 field size being very close to 2^256, montgomery doean't gain you much on 64-bit systems
719 2013-09-02 12:33:40 <sipa> but maybe it still gains you something
720 2013-09-02 12:34:42 Squidicuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
721 2013-09-02 12:35:13 <TD> there's a paper on simd accelerating that, but i guess you already extracted max juice out of simd
722 2013-09-02 12:35:19 <sipa> openssl's generic prime-field ec code uses montgomery (and an assembly-imolemented version of it even)
723 2013-09-02 12:35:35 <sipa> i don't use simd
724 2013-09-02 12:36:09 <sipa> and neither does openssl iirc
725 2013-09-02 12:36:57 <TD> http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/519.pdf
726 2013-09-02 12:37:04 <TD> that's the paper if it has any useful ideas
727 2013-09-02 12:45:50 thrasher` has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
728 2013-09-02 12:46:38 testnode9 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
729 2013-09-02 12:58:03 <jgarzik> sipa, IRC'ing from a beach or mountaintop chalet, I hope? :)
730 2013-09-02 12:58:07 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
731 2013-09-02 12:58:11 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, lovely
732 2013-09-02 12:58:23 <sipa> jgarzik: train
733 2013-09-02 12:58:42 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, what's immature? 0 conf? 1 conf?
734 2013-09-02 12:59:06 <jgarzik> sipa, cool. Slow but a great way to travel.
735 2013-09-02 12:59:25 <sipa> jgarzik: scroll up :)
736 2013-09-02 12:59:56 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: a newly generated coin with only 92 confirmations... so a somewhat odd case!
737 2013-09-02 13:00:15 <gmaxwell> (well I think it had far fewer when they authored the transactionâ user said he'd been waiting for hours)
738 2013-09-02 13:00:28 testnode9 has joined
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746 2013-09-02 13:15:58 <coingenuity> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYqY5YELd0 <<< how i imagine bratislava, sipa
747 2013-09-02 13:16:14 <coingenuity> lmao
748 2013-09-02 13:16:32 <bizoro> you guys know about bitmessage?!
749 2013-09-02 13:16:58 <runeks> Yes.
750 2013-09-02 13:17:09 <coingenuity> MIAMI WIZE IS NUMBER ONE NEW SHOW xD
751 2013-09-02 13:17:15 <coingenuity> too funny
752 2013-09-02 13:18:21 <runeks> LOL. dog with a human hand in his mouth :)
753 2013-09-02 13:18:35 <coingenuity> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NuuJQT8ZM << i have to imagine that sipa lives like this in bratislava
754 2013-09-02 13:20:09 <gmaxwell> torists like that in bratislava
755 2013-09-02 13:20:30 <coingenuity> btw gmaxwell - just a random thought
756 2013-09-02 13:20:51 <coingenuity> you cant use config files now to manage datadirs, or so it appears from the documentation on .conf's
757 2013-09-02 13:21:05 <coingenuity> but since the chain is getting so big, a lot of peeps will be using external storage for blocks
758 2013-09-02 13:21:29 <gmaxwell> symlinks are your friend.
759 2013-09-02 13:21:35 <coingenuity> perhaps a blockdir directive in the .conf system might be good, so you can just offload the 'big' crap to non-default storage locations
760 2013-09-02 13:21:43 <coingenuity> so that no symlinks are needed
761 2013-09-02 13:21:45 <coingenuity> heh
762 2013-09-02 13:22:23 <sipa> not sur eit was merged
763 2013-09-02 13:22:35 <sipa> but there was a pull to choose the wallet file
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766 2013-09-02 13:26:50 <gmaxwell> coingenuity: yea, doesn't sound unreasonable, esp since there is nothing like a cross device symlink in windows that would work for this as far as I know.
767 2013-09-02 13:27:22 Belxjander has quit (Read error: No route to host)
768 2013-09-02 13:27:56 <coingenuity> right-o, can't even imagine trying to do it in doze8 :X
769 2013-09-02 13:28:11 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: eh, depends..
770 2013-09-02 13:28:34 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: even back in DOS, you could define Z:\ to be the same as C:\dummydir\
771 2013-09-02 13:28:42 <Luke-Jr> more like a hardlink
772 2013-09-02 13:30:46 <sipa> ASSIGN ?
773 2013-09-02 13:31:12 * coingenuity amuses self while rsync moves blocks around
774 2013-09-02 13:31:17 <sipa> or JOIN
775 2013-09-02 13:31:22 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: hm.. does that actually change anything but the cli?
776 2013-09-02 13:31:44 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yes
777 2013-09-02 13:32:05 <Luke-Jr> or at least it did..
778 2013-09-02 13:32:10 <gmaxwell> cool.
779 2013-09-02 13:32:17 <gmaxwell> I have no recollection of that. Odd.
780 2013-09-02 13:32:35 <sipa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MS-DOS_commands#JOIN
781 2013-09-02 13:32:59 <sipa> hmm, that may be the opposite
782 2013-09-02 13:34:06 Odyessus has joined
783 2013-09-02 13:34:06 <coingenuity> mklink still works, i think
784 2013-09-02 13:34:12 <coingenuity> but its a bit strange on windows
785 2013-09-02 13:34:22 AlexNagy has left ("Leaving")
786 2013-09-02 13:35:21 <Luke-Jr> subst I think
787 2013-09-02 13:35:35 <Luke-Jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUBST
788 2013-09-02 13:36:38 <coingenuity> cmd != dos anyway
789 2013-09-02 13:36:51 <coingenuity> its missing a lot of shit in winxp+
790 2013-09-02 13:37:24 <_dr> dblspace.exe, most importantly!
791 2013-09-02 13:38:26 <gmaxwell> stacker 4 evar
792 2013-09-02 13:39:08 <Luke-Jr> _dr: that's called ramzswap on Linux
793 2013-09-02 13:39:16 HM has left ()
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811 2013-09-02 14:18:04 <jgarzik> sipa, bratislava? Bratislava???
812 2013-09-02 14:18:11 <jgarzik> sipa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqEsE-IKBI8
813 2013-09-02 14:18:34 <jgarzik> sipa, Classic scene from "Eurotrip", wherein the backpacking-across-Europe characters get stranded in Bratislava
814 2013-09-02 14:18:52 <jgarzik> even includes some exchange rate joke than any bitcoiner may enjoy :)
815 2013-09-02 14:20:12 <gmaxwell> coingenuity: ^ you might like that video. :P
816 2013-09-02 14:20:24 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
817 2013-09-02 14:20:40 * gmaxwell waits for them to overdub it so they have $1.85 ... and one bitcoin.
818 2013-09-02 14:23:24 <sipa> jgarzik: no longer stranded there!
819 2013-09-02 14:24:24 hnz has joined
820 2013-09-02 14:24:57 <jgarzik> "a bitcoin??? I quit. I'll buy my own hotel!"
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824 2013-09-02 14:28:30 <jgarzik> You know you're a techie, when you start to fill up a 7-port USB hub
825 2013-09-02 14:28:54 <sipa> jgarzik: that's trivial
826 2013-09-02 14:28:58 <sipa> (with 6 block erupters)
827 2013-09-02 14:30:11 <Belxjander> jgarzik: then I definitely qualify with 2x4port hubs and both are almost full with 1 port "free" each :P
828 2013-09-02 14:30:31 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
829 2013-09-02 14:30:31 <sipa> just enough to connect another hub :p
830 2013-09-02 14:30:52 <jgarzik> heh
831 2013-09-02 14:31:28 <jgarzik> people used to test the SCSI driver by physically connecting SCSI bridges (like USB hubs) together, to see how deeply they could nest
832 2013-09-02 14:32:10 <jgarzik> of course, this was in the era before virtual-everything, when that sort of thing became trivial to simulate
833 2013-09-02 14:33:07 <sipa> seems pulltester's problem with headersfirst was just the "you slow peer, i disconnect you!" mechanism triggering
834 2013-09-02 14:33:36 reneg has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
835 2013-09-02 14:33:47 <sipa> apparently not
836 2013-09-02 14:33:52 reneg has joined
837 2013-09-02 14:36:37 <sipa> ah no, gavin was right
838 2013-09-02 14:37:14 * jgarzik is looking forward to testing that after US holiday ends
839 2013-09-02 14:37:15 MobPhone has joined
840 2013-09-02 14:38:31 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
841 2013-09-02 14:39:35 Subo1977 has joined
842 2013-09-02 14:39:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: what did gavin think the issue was?
843 2013-09-02 14:39:51 <gmaxwell> oh infinite reorg loop
844 2013-09-02 14:39:53 <gmaxwell> cool
845 2013-09-02 14:39:55 <sipa> indeed
846 2013-09-02 14:40:00 <sipa> \o/ bugs to fix
847 2013-09-02 14:40:24 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
848 2013-09-02 14:40:31 <gmaxwell> Disconnection sounded unoptimal at first, but on reflection if it were doing that it might be right toâ I suppose it should protect -connect/-addnode hosts.
849 2013-09-02 14:41:14 <jgarzik> sigh. i will miss fedora. they do such much better than ubuntu for Fighting The Good Open Source Fight. but for bringing up a new node w/ bitcoind, it's just easier to use ubuntu LTS server.
850 2013-09-02 14:43:43 cads has joined
851 2013-09-02 14:47:05 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
852 2013-09-02 14:47:55 Odyessus has joined
853 2013-09-02 14:48:16 roconnor has joined
854 2013-09-02 14:49:58 <sipa> gmaxwell: there's no other way of saying "cancel that, i don't need your blocks!" otherwise
855 2013-09-02 14:52:17 Heimdall has joined
856 2013-09-02 14:58:32 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
857 2013-09-02 15:01:42 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
858 2013-09-02 15:03:07 michagogo has joined
859 2013-09-02 15:03:45 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
860 2013-09-02 15:04:25 reneg has joined
861 2013-09-02 15:08:34 <sipa> so fun... coding on a train, and using pulltester as a syntax checker :p
862 2013-09-02 15:08:55 <michagogo> Lol :-P
863 2013-09-02 15:09:17 <michagogo> Don't you have a compiler?
864 2013-09-02 15:09:28 <michagogo> Or are you working on your phone or tablet or something?
865 2013-09-02 15:09:48 normanrichards has joined
866 2013-09-02 15:09:57 cads2 has joined
867 2013-09-02 15:10:27 <sipa> nah, just lazy
868 2013-09-02 15:10:49 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
869 2013-09-02 15:11:29 <michagogo> Does the pull tester not take longer to give a result than a simple "make -f mak<tab>unix"?
870 2013-09-02 15:11:35 <sipa> yes
871 2013-09-02 15:11:42 <gmaxwell> yes it takes longer
872 2013-09-02 15:11:49 <TD> it's a train. everything takes longer :)
873 2013-09-02 15:12:05 <gmaxwell> michagogo: do not asked encrypted questions if you want unencrypted answers. :P
874 2013-09-02 15:12:08 iddo has joined
875 2013-09-02 15:12:09 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: it runs a lot of tests too
876 2013-09-02 15:12:18 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
877 2013-09-02 15:12:19 <sipa> but if you write a single-line patch, there's no way in knowing that it'd contain a typo, right? :p
878 2013-09-02 15:12:19 <michagogo> Encrypted questions?
879 2013-09-02 15:12:46 <michagogo> sipa: Oh, are you using pulltester because you want the tests to run too?
880 2013-09-02 15:12:54 <gmaxwell> I should sleep. :P I misread your question due to reading it out of context. :)
881 2013-09-02 15:13:02 <michagogo> lol
882 2013-09-02 15:13:14 <sipa> no, just because i don't expect the compilation to feel :p
883 2013-09-02 15:13:26 <michagogo> ...does not compute...
884 2013-09-02 15:13:42 <michagogo> Feel what? o_O
885 2013-09-02 15:14:17 MobPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
886 2013-09-02 15:14:22 <Luke-Jr> sipa: O.o
887 2013-09-02 15:14:51 <michagogo> If you're just using the pull tester as a syntax checker, you could achieve the same thing faster with `make -f makefile.unix`, unless I'm missing something?
888 2013-09-02 15:15:23 <sipa> michagogo: i also want to run the test of course
889 2013-09-02 15:15:28 <michagogo> Ah
890 2013-09-02 15:15:43 <michagogo> (you just said you didn't want to run said tests)
891 2013-09-02 15:15:44 <sipa> michagogo: but since i don't expect the compilation to fail, i just write and push, and wait for a mail
892 2013-09-02 15:15:57 <sipa> and then notice that *again* a just made a typo :)
893 2013-09-02 15:16:00 <michagogo> Also, is there no automated test script?
894 2013-09-02 15:16:08 <sipa> yes, pulltester?
895 2013-09-02 15:16:17 <sipa> or you mean the unit tests?
896 2013-09-02 15:16:22 <michagogo> ...I mean, a script that runs the pulltester's tests locally
897 2013-09-02 15:16:23 <sipa> those wouldn't catch it
898 2013-09-02 15:16:33 <sipa> no, don't have all that set up
899 2013-09-02 15:17:00 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
900 2013-09-02 15:17:06 <michagogo> Ah, so it's not as simple as "run this programs against it", it requires a whole complicated setup?
901 2013-09-02 15:17:11 <Luke-Jr> oooooooooooo
902 2013-09-02 15:17:35 Odyessus has joined
903 2013-09-02 15:17:36 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: some of it is
904 2013-09-02 15:17:55 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: I have my setup so it runs the test_bitcoin every time I build
905 2013-09-02 15:18:40 <sipa> in practice it probably is that simple
906 2013-09-02 15:18:40 <sipa> but i never bothered
907 2013-09-02 15:18:40 <sipa> it means a java compiler at the least *shudder*
908 2013-09-02 15:21:11 reneg has joined
909 2013-09-02 15:21:19 btcbtc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
910 2013-09-02 15:21:42 btcbtc has joined
911 2013-09-02 15:22:00 <michagogo> A java compiler? o_O
912 2013-09-02 15:22:19 <michagogo> Also, why *shudder*?
913 2013-09-02 15:22:27 <michagogo> sudo apt0get install openjdk
914 2013-09-02 15:22:31 <michagogo> -typos
915 2013-09-02 15:23:22 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: Java = suck
916 2013-09-02 15:24:19 <Luke-Jr> let's all hate Java together!
917 2013-09-02 15:24:45 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Not great, but not inherently horrible either
918 2013-09-02 15:24:47 <sipa> i'm exaggerating of course
919 2013-09-02 15:24:49 <sipa> but i haven
920 2013-09-02 15:24:52 <Luke-Jr> :p
921 2013-09-02 15:25:21 <sipa> but i haven't touched it in a long time, and all that maven stuff and whatever around it scares me
922 2013-09-02 15:25:59 * Luke-Jr sees no reason Java shouldn't use Make like everything else
923 2013-09-02 15:26:10 <TheLordOfTime> ... o... kay this is weird... gmaxwell: any reports of partially-synced blockchains returning as "Unable to read block" after a shutdown of bitcoin-qt and a restart on the Debian Unstable version?
924 2013-09-02 15:26:36 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Doesn
925 2013-09-02 15:26:45 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Doesn't make just call different compilers?
926 2013-09-02 15:26:46 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: yep, thats coingenuity's report!
927 2013-09-02 15:26:56 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: have the debug log from that?
928 2013-09-02 15:27:05 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: exactly
929 2013-09-02 15:27:09 Odyessus has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
930 2013-09-02 15:27:20 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: So what do you mean, you see no reason Java shouldn't use Make like everything else?
931 2013-09-02 15:27:22 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: and how did you reproduce? just sync, stop the software and restart it?
932 2013-09-02 15:27:30 <michagogo> Can't you use make to invoke javac?
933 2013-09-02 15:27:37 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: maven is some kind of make "replacement" Java programs are apparently using
934 2013-09-02 15:27:38 <coingenuity> XD
935 2013-09-02 15:27:44 <coingenuity> gmaxwell: "coingenuity syndrome"
936 2013-09-02 15:27:47 <michagogo> Ah
937 2013-09-02 15:27:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: think that post threading changes might be quiting before getting data to disk?
938 2013-09-02 15:28:07 <michagogo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Maven ?
939 2013-09-02 15:28:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: ?
940 2013-09-02 15:28:44 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: well... reproduction was as follows: (1) loaded the program in the VM yesterday. (2) closed program and VM due to me not wanting the system to overheat and restart, (3) turned on VM today, (4) ran bitcoin-qt -debug, (5) error popup: E: FAIL
941 2013-09-02 15:28:44 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: was this in the mid of a resync?
942 2013-09-02 15:28:46 DanSlueth has joined
943 2013-09-02 15:28:53 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: read last line
944 2013-09-02 15:29:10 <sipa> sorry, i mean was this during initial block sync
945 2013-09-02 15:29:12 <TheLordOfTime> ... note to self: don't do cat debug.log
946 2013-09-02 15:29:20 <michagogo> Looks like maven is more than *just* a builder -- it also does things like fetch dependencies, etc.
947 2013-09-02 15:29:27 <gmaxwell> thats why I asked for the log.
948 2013-09-02 15:29:27 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: after bitcoin-qt was closed, and later reopened, yes.
949 2013-09-02 15:29:28 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: had the node synced fully already?
950 2013-09-02 15:29:33 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: no, this isn't my normal bitcoin node
951 2013-09-02 15:29:37 <michagogo> ;;google maven vs make
952 2013-09-02 15:29:37 <gribble> Java Build Systems: Make vs. Ant vs. Maven | GrokCode: <http://grokcode.com/538/java-build-systems-a-sad-state-of-affairs/>; ant - Why is no one using make for Java? - Stack Overflow: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2209827/why-is-no-one-using-make-for-java>; java - Maven vs. Ant - Stack Overflow: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/745261/maven-vs-ant>
953 2013-09-02 15:29:47 <TheLordOfTime> this is a VM setup, it's me testing the Debian Unstable package which also got into ubuntu saucy
954 2013-09-02 15:29:56 DanSlueth has quit (Client Quit)
955 2013-09-02 15:29:59 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: ok, during initial sync, blocks aren't flushed to disk all the time, as it would kill syncup speed
956 2013-09-02 15:30:06 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: partly-synced for the initial time, but however it was terminated/turned off at a point
957 2013-09-02 15:30:11 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: it didn't even continue syncing this time
958 2013-09-02 15:30:18 <michagogo> Wow, I'd never associated "maven" with ××××
959 2013-09-02 15:30:30 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: but it does mean that in theory you can get a block that is not on disk, but manages to get written to the index
960 2013-09-02 15:30:46 <sipa> so yes, this is possible in theory
961 2013-09-02 15:30:51 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: well, i'm pulling debug.log now so...
962 2013-09-02 15:30:51 <runeks> Is there a nifty way of reading the blocks from the best chain faster than using getblock()? The getblock RPC call is the main bottleneck for me.
963 2013-09-02 15:30:51 <sipa> but only during initial sync
964 2013-09-02 15:30:59 <TheLordOfTime> let's make conclusions only *after* i've pulled the logs for us, okay?
965 2013-09-02 15:31:04 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: sure
966 2013-09-02 15:31:12 <TD> maven is just a zip you extract and add to your $PATH
967 2013-09-02 15:31:14 <sipa> runeks: apart from reading it from disk yourself, not really
968 2013-09-02 15:31:15 <TD> not very difficult
969 2013-09-02 15:31:21 jeewee has joined
970 2013-09-02 15:31:25 <TheLordOfTime> ... geez.......... it's still loading the file... o.O
971 2013-09-02 15:31:29 t7 has quit (Quit: hometime)
972 2013-09-02 15:31:56 <runeks> sipa: How would I go about that? Make sure bitcoind is shut down and read the file position of each block in the best chain from bitcoind's leveldb database?
973 2013-09-02 15:32:17 <sipa> runeks: that's one way, or you parse it entirely yourself, like armory does
974 2013-09-02 15:32:35 <sipa> runeks: it's not exactly a use case the software is optimized for
975 2013-09-02 15:33:32 <runeks> sipa: That's what I've been thinking about. Should an RPC call to localhost really add that much latency? Or is it bitcoind that is slow at fetching random blocks from disk?
976 2013-09-02 15:34:01 <runeks> Cause bitcoind should, in theory, be just as fast to read blocks from disk as my program can do. It's only the RPC interface that might add latency.
977 2013-09-02 15:34:02 <sipa> RPC has some overhead, but mostly, it grabs the internal cs_main lock
978 2013-09-02 15:34:04 o3u has joined
979 2013-09-02 15:34:24 <sipa> so everything else important that it's doing blocks the RPC processing
980 2013-09-02 15:34:41 <gmaxwell> runeks: are you one of those wizards in the forum who is running system('bitcoind ...') to use the rpc from php? :P
981 2013-09-02 15:34:49 paracyst has joined
982 2013-09-02 15:34:56 <michagogo> lol
983 2013-09-02 15:35:00 <runeks> sipa: Ah, I see. Is there a simple way of not making it do that?
984 2013-09-02 15:35:03 <gmaxwell> (sorry, its obligatory to ask the dumb questions)
985 2013-09-02 15:35:22 <sipa> runeks: not without making it crash
986 2013-09-02 15:35:50 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: 90MB log file o.O
987 2013-09-02 15:35:55 <TheLordOfTime> give it a minute to upload somewhere
988 2013-09-02 15:35:58 <sipa> TheLordOfTime: is that all?
989 2013-09-02 15:36:07 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: that's all the log file has before E:Fail
990 2013-09-02 15:36:08 <gmaxwell> xz is your friend. :P
991 2013-09-02 15:36:11 <sipa> $ du -sh ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
992 2013-09-02 15:36:11 <sipa> 33G /home/pw/.bitcoin/debug.log
993 2013-09-02 15:36:22 <runeks> gmaxwell: :) I am not no. Speaking of PHP wizardry, have you seen this? http://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/1l7baq/creating_a_user_from_the_web_problem/
994 2013-09-02 15:36:35 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: note this isn't a fully synced node and it's quite possible it got overwritten somehow :/
995 2013-09-02 15:36:44 <sipa> ?
996 2013-09-02 15:36:47 <TheLordOfTime> but i don't know the structure of the logfile so...
997 2013-09-02 15:36:51 <gmaxwell> runeks: (I ask not just because of the general foolishness but because bitcoind as an rpc client is really really slow)
998 2013-09-02 15:36:52 <TheLordOfTime> we'll see what happens.
999 2013-09-02 15:37:07 <gmaxwell> overwritten?
1000 2013-09-02 15:37:15 <runeks> gmaxwell: Yeah I've come to realize that.
1001 2013-09-02 15:37:28 <runeks> Would be nice if there was some way of speeding it up.
1002 2013-09-02 15:37:42 <gmaxwell> runeks: as a _client_ you should not be using it as a client thats why I was asking.
1003 2013-09-02 15:38:05 <gmaxwell> hahahaha nice link.
1004 2013-09-02 15:38:09 <runeks> gmaxwell: What do you mean exactly?
1005 2013-09-02 15:38:20 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: were you not here when gmaxwell informed me the debian unstable package is broken and i started going on the warpath to get it removed from Debian and Ubuntu?
1006 2013-09-02 15:38:20 <sipa> it may be broken
1007 2013-09-02 15:38:20 <sipa> or there may be anothe rproblem with debian or the hardware where we've seen that problem observed
1008 2013-09-02 15:38:20 <sipa> but i don't see what that has to do with your logfile being overwritten?
1009 2013-09-02 15:38:20 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: as i said i don't know
1010 2013-09-02 15:38:22 <runeks> gmaxwell: Yeah :) notsureifserious.jpg
1011 2013-09-02 15:38:29 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: in any case let's wait to see what debug.log says
1012 2013-09-02 15:39:07 <sipa> runeks: how are you doing the getblock RPC call?
1013 2013-09-02 15:39:17 <gmaxwell> runeks: when you type "bitcoind getinfo" you are using the bitcoind executable as an rpc client. This is slow because it loads and excutes a multimegabyte binary with multiple megabytes of libraries... and god knows what C++ magic... just to make a single rpc call.
1014 2013-09-02 15:39:27 <runeks> sipa: Using jsonrpc in Python.
1015 2013-09-02 15:39:32 <sipa> ok
1016 2013-09-02 15:39:35 <sipa> you're good
1017 2013-09-02 15:39:52 <gmaxwell> okay, good for that issue, jsonrpc in python is also really slow but I don't know if it would effect the getblock call.
1018 2013-09-02 15:39:55 <runeks> gmaxwell: Oh, I see. I thought you were talking about the RPC interface in general.
1019 2013-09-02 15:40:01 <TD> in fairness, that execute means adjusting some kernel memory maps and hitting "go" on a new thread/address space. it's not necessarily slow just because the binary is large
1020 2013-09-02 15:40:18 <runeks> The binary is probably already in memory.
1021 2013-09-02 15:40:19 <gmaxwell> TD: and running zillions of constructors.
1022 2013-09-02 15:40:35 <gmaxwell> it's actually very slow. go time it instead of arguing with me on IRC. :P
1023 2013-09-02 15:40:46 * michagogo wonders if there's a rubygem that is a bitcoin jsonrpc client
1024 2013-09-02 15:41:06 <TD> time ./bitcoind -regtest getbalance
1025 2013-09-02 15:41:06 <TD> 1290.00000000
1026 2013-09-02 15:41:06 <TD> real 0m0.013s
1027 2013-09-02 15:41:21 <michagogo> -regtest?
1028 2013-09-02 15:41:36 <gmaxwell> yea, so you're limited to < 100 requests per second right there.
1029 2013-09-02 15:41:49 <jrmithdobbs> TD: now time curl to the same interface
1030 2013-09-02 15:42:07 <sipa> why would loading the curl binary be faster? :D
1031 2013-09-02 15:42:13 <runeks> Fetching 100 hex blocks over RPC takes me 81.294925 seconds. They're probably like 200 KB each, so that's 250 KB/s over localhost :\
1032 2013-09-02 15:42:15 <jrmithdobbs> it's smaller
1033 2013-09-02 15:42:18 Subo1977_ has joined
1034 2013-09-02 15:42:36 <sipa> runeks: wow
1035 2013-09-02 15:42:38 <gmaxwell> (77 req/s I guess)
1036 2013-09-02 15:42:39 <sipa> that's very slow
1037 2013-09-02 15:42:43 <gmaxwell> runeks: what thats busted.
1038 2013-09-02 15:42:51 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1039 2013-09-02 15:43:02 <runeks> That's slower than my ADSL line...
1040 2013-09-02 15:43:27 <gmaxwell> time (for i in {251378..251478} ; do export bh=`./bitcoind getblockhash $i` ; for tx in `./bitcoind getblock $bh | grep ' "' | head -1 |cut -d'"' -f2` ; do ./bitcoind getrawtransaction $tx 1 | grep value | cut -d':' -f2 | cut -d ',' -f1 | awk '{aa+=$1} END {print aa}' ; done ; done)
1041 2013-09-02 15:43:32 <gmaxwell> real 0m5.945s
1042 2013-09-02 15:43:35 <gmaxwell> user 0m2.508s
1043 2013-09-02 15:43:37 <gmaxwell> sys 0m0.958s
1044 2013-09-02 15:43:47 bmcgee has joined
1045 2013-09-02 15:44:05 <gmaxwell> three calls to bitcoind to use the rpc... for 100 blocks and it takes <6 seconds.
1046 2013-09-02 15:44:19 <runeks> And it's not the general RPC calls that are slow. I do a getblockhash() right before every getblock() and it only takes 5 ms.
1047 2013-09-02 15:44:43 <sipa> what else is running on that system?
1048 2013-09-02 15:44:46 <sipa> what disk?
1049 2013-09-02 15:44:48 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: how many lines do you want from the end of debug.log
1050 2013-09-02 15:45:07 <TheLordOfTime> 1,087,376 lines so far...
1051 2013-09-02 15:45:16 <runeks> sipa: SanDisk SDSSDH2256G SSD
1052 2013-09-02 15:45:21 <gmaxwell> runeks: can you just try my commandline there to see if its your calling enviroment or not?
1053 2013-09-02 15:45:58 <runeks> gmaxwell: real 0m4.741s
1054 2013-09-02 15:46:11 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1055 2013-09-02 15:46:32 <gmaxwell> okay, go fix your python enviroment. :P
1056 2013-09-02 15:47:06 <runeks> Odd...
1057 2013-09-02 15:47:20 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: how many lines should I grab from the end of debug.log?
1058 2013-09-02 15:47:23 <gmaxwell> first rule of computers: everything is crap.
1059 2013-09-02 15:47:28 <TheLordOfTime> or do you want all 1.1 million lines.
1060 2013-09-02 15:47:35 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: enough to see where it went wrong. :P
1061 2013-09-02 15:47:47 <gmaxwell> last 10000 or whatever should be fine.
1062 2013-09-02 15:49:27 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1063 2013-09-02 15:49:46 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: how about the 456 from launch of bitcoind today which is from start to end where it ifailed
1064 2013-09-02 15:50:24 <sipa> well ideally we'd see the lines at the end of the the previous run (which still worked)
1065 2013-09-02 15:50:24 <sipa> but i don't think there'll be much to see
1066 2013-09-02 15:50:27 <gmaxwell> need the logs from just before it went down too.
1067 2013-09-02 15:50:44 c0rw1n has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1068 2013-09-02 15:50:51 <gmaxwell> yea, not likely to learn much we don't know now, but some confirmation would be good.
1069 2013-09-02 15:51:04 <gmaxwell> I'm pretty sure I know what happened here (what sipa said above)
1070 2013-09-02 15:51:39 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: i can pull some data from there
1071 2013-09-02 15:51:52 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1072 2013-09-02 15:52:04 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: it went down after the VM was shut down and then loaded again this morning, so it was trying to pull what was on disk i guess
1073 2013-09-02 15:52:06 <TheLordOfTime> give me a minute
1074 2013-09-02 15:52:22 Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1075 2013-09-02 15:52:52 <sipa> hmmm... half of my vps's disk space is bitcoind log files
1076 2013-09-02 15:53:36 GChriss has joined
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1078 2013-09-02 15:54:12 Luke-Jr has joined
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1080 2013-09-02 15:55:07 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: gmaxwell: ehhh nothing supports 10000+ lines... :;/
1081 2013-09-02 15:55:30 kreal has joined
1082 2013-09-02 15:55:44 <sipa> tail -n 10000 ~/.bitcoin/debug.log | gzip -9 >foobar.log.gz
1083 2013-09-02 15:55:51 <TheLordOfTime> not what i meant
1084 2013-09-02 15:55:54 <TheLordOfTime> nowhere to paste it
1085 2013-09-02 15:55:56 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: hm? tail -10000 debug.log | xz -dc - > foo.xz
1086 2013-09-02 15:55:58 <TheLordOfTime> nowhere to upload it to
1087 2013-09-02 15:56:33 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: presumably it's only a few hundred lines from the failure to the last lines before it failed?
1088 2013-09-02 15:57:11 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: it pastes about 12000 lines to gist, 9000 to pastebin before they fail...
1089 2013-09-02 15:57:35 <TheLordOfTime> one moment here...
1090 2013-09-02 15:57:35 i2pRelay has joined
1091 2013-09-02 15:57:43 <TheLordOfTime> *kicks his SSH and tries to get into one of his web servers*
1092 2013-09-02 15:58:06 c0rw1n has joined
1093 2013-09-02 15:58:40 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: E: format not recognized with your command
1094 2013-09-02 15:59:05 <gmaxwell> sorry leave off the -d
1095 2013-09-02 16:01:11 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: sipa: i have a gzipped version now, but you'll have to download it and gunzip it
1096 2013-09-02 16:01:31 <TheLordOfTime> http://lordoftime.info/debug.log.gz if you want it (i was able to get in because i allow passcode auth for my user on that server)
1097 2013-09-02 16:01:36 <TheLordOfTime> last 10000 lines
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1099 2013-09-02 16:02:53 GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
1100 2013-09-02 16:03:00 <TheLordOfTime> the web server doesn't serve gzipped data very well :/
1101 2013-09-02 16:04:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: can you deal with this; i'm still on a train :)
1102 2013-09-02 16:05:07 Odyessus has joined
1103 2013-09-02 16:05:10 <gmaxwell> uh
1104 2013-09-02 16:05:12 <gmaxwell> hm
1105 2013-09-02 16:05:16 <gmaxwell> this isn't what I .. ah.
1106 2013-09-02 16:05:21 <gmaxwell> okay weird.
1107 2013-09-02 16:05:44 <gmaxwell> prior run ends with:
1108 2013-09-02 16:05:45 <gmaxwell> received: block (7316 bytes)
1109 2013-09-02 16:05:45 <gmaxwell> received block 00000000000006de1735ac51cb5168d5d5edd1a7f86425a83eb66cdcb3550424
1110 2013-09-02 16:05:48 <gmaxwell> SetBestChain: new best=00000000000006de1735ac51cb5168d5d5edd1a7f86425a83eb66cdcb3550424 height=139919 log2_work=65.969005 tx=1226744 date=2011-08-07 03:21:29 progress=0.018441
1111 2013-09-02 16:05:52 <gmaxwell> ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1112 2013-09-02 16:05:55 <gmaxwell> ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^
1113 2013-09-02 16:06:16 <gmaxwell> Rescanning last 111 blocks (from block 139402)...
1114 2013-09-02 16:06:19 <gmaxwell> is successful
1115 2013-09-02 16:06:26 <gmaxwell> then SetBestChain: new best=00000000000006f69e5c8394cc9e3916745b2d9f1a8b05999403273e5cc895ad height=139514 log2_work=65.901831 tx=1203613 date=2011-08-04 00:17:20 progress=0.018055
1116 2013-09-02 16:06:30 eoss has joined
1117 2013-09-02 16:06:50 <gmaxwell> which continues until
1118 2013-09-02 16:06:51 <gmaxwell> SetBestChain: new best=00000000000006de1735ac51cb5168d5d5edd1a7f86425a83eb66cdcb3550424 height=139919 log2_work=65.969005 tx=1226744 date=2011-08-07 03:21:29 progre
1119 2013-09-02 16:06:55 <gmaxwell> ss=0.018402
1120 2013-09-02 16:06:57 <gmaxwell> ERROR: CheckProofOfWork() : nBits below minimum work
1121 2013-09-02 16:07:00 <gmaxwell> ERROR: CBlock::ReadFromDisk() : errors in block header
1122 2013-09-02 16:07:02 <gmaxwell> *** Failed to read block
1123 2013-09-02 16:07:33 <sipa> is that just SetBestChain lines, with nothing in between?
1124 2013-09-02 16:07:46 <gmaxwell> yep.
1125 2013-09-02 16:07:49 <sipa> ok
1126 2013-09-02 16:07:59 <gmaxwell> and then
1127 2013-09-02 16:08:00 <gmaxwell> init message: Loading addresses...
1128 2013-09-02 16:08:01 <gmaxwell> Loaded 9038 addresses from peers.dat 48ms
1129 2013-09-02 16:08:01 <gmaxwell> Flush(false)
1130 2013-09-02 16:08:01 <gmaxwell> wallet.dat refcount=0
1131 2013-09-02 16:08:01 <sipa> so the chainstate was last written at 139514
1132 2013-09-02 16:08:03 <gmaxwell> wallet.dat checkpoint
1133 2013-09-02 16:08:05 <gmaxwell> wallet.dat detach
1134 2013-09-02 16:08:08 <gmaxwell> wallet.dat closed
1135 2013-09-02 16:08:10 <gmaxwell> DBFlush(false) ended 22ms
1136 2013-09-02 16:08:13 <gmaxwell> StopNode()
1137 2013-09-02 16:08:15 <gmaxwell> but without timestamps, I'm not sure how long it sat there.
1138 2013-09-02 16:08:19 <sipa> but the blockindex and the blocks on disk ere written further
1139 2013-09-02 16:08:22 <sipa> including a block index entry for a block that never manged to get on disk
1140 2013-09-02 16:08:28 hsmiths has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1141 2013-09-02 16:08:30 <sipa> please don't paste such long chunks
1142 2013-09-02 16:08:37 <gmaxwell> sorry. :) And yep.
1143 2013-09-02 16:08:43 <sipa> actually, we could deal perfectly with that case
1144 2013-09-02 16:08:44 ticean has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1145 2013-09-02 16:08:56 <sipa> by just stopping the auto-reconnect if it fails
1146 2013-09-02 16:08:59 <gmaxwell> sure. that particular one isn't hard. just recover when it fails.
1147 2013-09-02 16:09:37 <sipa> and usually, whenever we write *anything* to the chainstate, blocks and blockindex are synced to disk
1148 2013-09-02 16:10:10 <sipa> c'mon you pulltester
1149 2013-09-02 16:11:02 <runeks> Looks like the reason for the poor RPC performance was because it used a new connection for every call. With bitcoinrpc I fetch those 100 blocks in 7.5 seconds.
1150 2013-09-02 16:11:12 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: reindex will set you right, and then you can see if it makes it to the point where it fails for everyone else.. your vm is multi-core, I hope?
1151 2013-09-02 16:11:50 hsmiths has joined
1152 2013-09-02 16:11:50 <sipa> runeks: are you doing multiple calls in parallel?
1153 2013-09-02 16:12:01 <runeks> sipa: Nope.
1154 2013-09-02 16:12:03 <gmaxwell> runeks: careful with the bitcoinrpc, it runs every JSON 'number' through decimal() which creates performance problems for some rpcs.. not getblock though.
1155 2013-09-02 16:12:08 OPrime has quit (Quit: OPrime)
1156 2013-09-02 16:12:22 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: unfortunately not, this system is a dual core processor, one core has to remain available for the actual host system, one for the VM
1157 2013-09-02 16:12:28 <sipa> runeks: is there huge variance in time per rpc call
1158 2013-09-02 16:12:29 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: but it's got the entire 1 core dedicated to it.
1159 2013-09-02 16:12:36 <runeks> gmaxwell: Yeah I initially opted out of it because it did that. But I'm just getting the block data (hex) so it shouldn't matter as you say.
1160 2013-09-02 16:12:37 <sipa> runeks: or are they all just on average slow
1161 2013-09-02 16:12:40 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: oh, well I think thats no chance of reproducing that reported debian unstable glitch.
1162 2013-09-02 16:12:52 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: then we're not going to be able to reproduce until i get a new system
1163 2013-09-02 16:13:00 <TheLordOfTime> which is quad core, and i'll put 2 cores into the VM
1164 2013-09-02 16:13:02 <gmaxwell> runeks: New connections doesn't quite explain it.. since the cli was doing that too.. (actually three of them per block)
1165 2013-09-02 16:13:25 <gmaxwell> TheLordOfTime: your vm enviroment won't let you use as many cpus as the host??
1166 2013-09-02 16:13:42 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell: i can let it but then i get a huge freeze up on both VM and host
1167 2013-09-02 16:13:55 <TheLordOfTime> this isn't a high powered system :/
1168 2013-09-02 16:14:07 <gmaxwell> ah okay
1169 2013-09-02 16:14:22 <gmaxwell> well one good bug reproduced in any case.
1170 2013-09-02 16:14:24 <runeks> gmaxwell: Good point. Then I can't explain it.
1171 2013-09-02 16:14:41 <runeks> sipa: I'll check the variance... gimme a minut
1172 2013-09-02 16:15:01 wrabbit has joined
1173 2013-09-02 16:15:05 <sipa> runeks: mainly i want to know, are they all fast, but are there sometimes multi-second lockups
1174 2013-09-02 16:15:13 <sipa> or are the cals just really 1s per call
1175 2013-09-02 16:15:18 <sipa> *calls
1176 2013-09-02 16:15:30 <runeks> sipa: Well it's better now as I mentioned. around 75 ms per call.
1177 2013-09-02 16:15:39 <sipa> "now" ?
1178 2013-09-02 16:15:42 <sipa> what changed?
1179 2013-09-02 16:15:54 <runeks> sipa: bitcoinrpc instead of jsonrpc
1180 2013-09-02 16:16:19 <sipa> can you go back to jsonrpc then for a second, and check this?
1181 2013-09-02 16:16:36 <sipa> it may be a lead for the weird lockups/deadlocks some people experience with rpc
1182 2013-09-02 16:16:41 <runeks> sipa: I can do that yeah.
1183 2013-09-02 16:16:55 <sipa> if you experience a slowdown with one client library and not with another, that's a big hint
1184 2013-09-02 16:16:59 <runeks> By the way, running ./bitcoind is still 2x faster than bitcoinrpc
1185 2013-09-02 16:17:11 <sipa> heh??
1186 2013-09-02 16:17:23 <sipa> that's utterly ridicuous
1187 2013-09-02 16:19:11 <runeks> Yeah I don't get it :\
1188 2013-09-02 16:19:27 <sipa> can i see your code?
1189 2013-09-02 16:20:09 <runeks> Max: 0.215998888016
1190 2013-09-02 16:20:09 <runeks> Min: 0.00325512886047
1191 2013-09-02 16:20:09 <runeks> Avg: 0.0617920833059
1192 2013-09-02 16:20:09 <runeks> Done! Scan took 31.7 seconds
1193 2013-09-02 16:20:21 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1194 2013-09-02 16:20:31 <runeks> sipa: Sure
1195 2013-09-02 16:22:43 <runeks> sipa: http://pastebin.com/ysTnsYEU
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1198 2013-09-02 16:24:31 <sipa> why do you load the library inside da_loop?
1199 2013-09-02 16:24:31 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1200 2013-09-02 16:24:35 <runeks> And now I can't reproduce the jsonrpc slowness.
1201 2013-09-02 16:25:03 <runeks> sipa: Because I was just testing.
1202 2013-09-02 16:25:03 <runeks> They're not used in there.
1203 2013-09-02 16:25:29 <sipa> but you are loading it?
1204 2013-09-02 16:26:00 <runeks> sipa: Yes I have a "import jsonrpc" on top.
1205 2013-09-02 16:26:17 <runeks> sipa: The code depends on a lot of other libraries so you can't run it. Do you want all the code?
1206 2013-09-02 16:26:34 <sipa> i just don't see why you're loading a library in a loop...
1207 2013-09-02 16:26:41 <runeks> But as I said, it fetches the 100 blocks in 6 seconds now. It seems to come and go away the slowness.
1208 2013-09-02 16:26:47 <sipa> hmmz
1209 2013-09-02 16:26:49 <sipa> meh :)
1210 2013-09-02 16:27:04 <runeks> sipa: It's not a loop. I should call it something else. It's just a function containing a loop.
1211 2013-09-02 16:27:17 <sipa> ok
1212 2013-09-02 16:27:29 ticean has joined
1213 2013-09-02 16:27:35 <runeks> I just made it a function so I can profile it.
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1229 2013-09-02 16:58:23 <runeks> It seems that the Python line_profiler utility messes up getblock() for some reason. http://pythonhosted.org/line_profiler/
1230 2013-09-02 16:58:36 <runeks> Perhaps this was the only issue.
1231 2013-09-02 16:59:01 winbtc_moarrr_ has quit ()
1232 2013-09-02 17:01:16 tsst has quit ()
1233 2013-09-02 17:03:33 <runeks> Although it's not always the case. Sometimes it doesn't mess it up.
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1247 2013-09-02 17:35:28 <maaku> there's a nVersion=2 transaction in testnet3 : 3f98fd9940a18afef4cb8fb20b6310ff09a3c6639c029f45c9525d43558487e4 ; anyone know why this is the case?
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1251 2013-09-02 17:55:07 <ahmedbodi> Luke-Jr: mind sharing any ideas on that pythion module?
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1256 2013-09-02 18:00:06 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: no ideas, like I said I always use allowall
1257 2013-09-02 18:00:28 <ahmedbodi> how does the username and password get passed to allowall
1258 2013-09-02 18:01:10 wrabbit has joined
1259 2013-09-02 18:02:34 <Luke-Jr> ahmedbodi: ?
1260 2013-09-02 18:05:33 <ahmedbodi> yes
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1262 2013-09-02 18:06:01 <Dimeetrees> hi
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1354 2013-09-02 20:33:47 <jgarzik> I love how Ubuntu's Startup Disk Creator takes under 2 seconds to write >660MB of data to USB flash drive, then many minutes to install the tiny bootloader :)
1355 2013-09-02 20:37:38 <wumpus> hehe, always seems to be that way when writing to usb sticks
1356 2013-09-02 20:37:56 <wumpus> very fast until you try to unmount the thing, then it suddenly wants to sync everything :p
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1369 2013-09-02 21:14:46 <K1773R> its called lovely buffers :P
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1374 2013-09-02 21:20:17 enikanorov_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1378 2013-09-02 21:31:47 <Luke-Jr> hmm
1379 2013-09-02 21:31:55 <Luke-Jr> importprivkey(â¦, false) DOES have -Qt :x
1380 2013-09-02 21:32:18 <Luke-Jr> false seems to be ignored
1381 2013-09-02 21:32:18 Transisto has quit ()
1382 2013-09-02 21:32:23 <Luke-Jr> hang*
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