1 2013-09-03 00:01:12 cypher has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   2 2013-09-03 00:01:57 JWU_42 has joined
   3 2013-09-03 00:02:31 Namworld has joined
   4 2013-09-03 00:03:15 cypher has joined
   5 2013-09-03 00:04:39 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
   6 2013-09-03 00:05:20 qbasicer has joined
   7 2013-09-03 00:07:32 Eiii has quit ()
   8 2013-09-03 00:08:06 darknyan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
   9 2013-09-03 00:10:05 Transisto has joined
  10 2013-09-03 00:11:30 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  11 2013-09-03 00:12:28 JWU_42 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  12 2013-09-03 00:13:17 fant has joined
  13 2013-09-03 00:13:56 darknyan has joined
  14 2013-09-03 00:16:33 wiretapped has joined
  15 2013-09-03 00:16:56 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  16 2013-09-03 00:17:58 Transisto has joined
  17 2013-09-03 00:18:02 Transisto has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  18 2013-09-03 00:18:21 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  19 2013-09-03 00:20:36 macboz has joined
  20 2013-09-03 00:24:09 Transisto has joined
  21 2013-09-03 00:25:12 dansmithbtc2 has joined
  22 2013-09-03 00:25:12 dansmithbtc2 has quit (Changing host)
  23 2013-09-03 00:25:12 dansmithbtc2 has joined
  24 2013-09-03 00:25:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i cant replicate the invalid block issue on debian sid
  25 2013-09-03 00:25:54 <phantomcircuit> there's more to the story than just using debian sid
  26 2013-09-03 00:26:12 <phantomcircuit> (this is with reindexing and also randomly killing between 5-10 minutes)
  27 2013-09-03 00:29:13 AndyOfiesh has joined
  28 2013-09-03 00:29:53 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  29 2013-09-03 00:30:15 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  30 2013-09-03 00:36:40 JWU_42 has joined
  31 2013-09-03 00:42:53 Transisto has joined
  32 2013-09-03 00:43:33 c0rw1n has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  33 2013-09-03 00:47:08 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
  34 2013-09-03 00:47:11 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  35 2013-09-03 00:47:59 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  36 2013-09-03 00:49:08 c0rw1n has joined
  37 2013-09-03 00:51:34 Transisto has joined
  38 2013-09-03 00:52:45 COGSMITH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  39 2013-09-03 00:53:47 COGSMITH has joined
  40 2013-09-03 00:55:44 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  41 2013-09-03 00:58:01 COGSMITH has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  42 2013-09-03 00:58:28 COGSMITH has joined
  43 2013-09-03 01:01:21 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  44 2013-09-03 01:02:35 Zoop_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  45 2013-09-03 01:02:56 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  46 2013-09-03 01:04:02 reneg has joined
  47 2013-09-03 01:06:01 DBordello has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  48 2013-09-03 01:06:52 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  49 2013-09-03 01:06:55 stochasm has joined
  50 2013-09-03 01:07:25 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  51 2013-09-03 01:07:55 stochasm has joined
  52 2013-09-03 01:08:23 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  53 2013-09-03 01:08:46 HaltingState has joined
  54 2013-09-03 01:08:55 stochasm has joined
  55 2013-09-03 01:09:24 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  56 2013-09-03 01:09:55 stochasm has joined
  57 2013-09-03 01:10:09 random_cat has joined
  58 2013-09-03 01:10:26 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  59 2013-09-03 01:10:28 DBordello has joined
  60 2013-09-03 01:10:55 stochasm has joined
  61 2013-09-03 01:11:25 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  62 2013-09-03 01:11:56 stochasm has joined
  63 2013-09-03 01:12:13 weex has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  64 2013-09-03 01:12:17 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  65 2013-09-03 01:12:52 weex has joined
  66 2013-09-03 01:12:56 stochasm has joined
  67 2013-09-03 01:13:35 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  68 2013-09-03 01:14:10 Pengoo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  69 2013-09-03 01:14:31 justusranvier has joined
  70 2013-09-03 01:14:37 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  71 2013-09-03 01:14:56 stochasm has joined
  72 2013-09-03 01:15:17 iddo has joined
  73 2013-09-03 01:15:40 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  74 2013-09-03 01:16:28 stochasm has joined
  75 2013-09-03 01:17:04 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  76 2013-09-03 01:17:33 stochasm has joined
  77 2013-09-03 01:18:12 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  78 2013-09-03 01:18:25 bizoro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  79 2013-09-03 01:18:41 bizoro has joined
  80 2013-09-03 01:18:57 stochasm has joined
  81 2013-09-03 01:19:14 ahmedbodi has joined
  82 2013-09-03 01:19:36 stochasm has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  83 2013-09-03 01:19:41 <ahmedbodi> is Luke-Jr around? or anyone thats used eloipool before?
  84 2013-09-03 01:20:27 stochasm has joined
  85 2013-09-03 01:21:27 JWU_42 has quit (Quit: leaving)
  86 2013-09-03 01:21:39 JWU_42 has joined
  87 2013-09-03 01:22:26 chax_ has joined
  88 2013-09-03 01:22:32 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  89 2013-09-03 01:22:59 ahbritto_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  90 2013-09-03 01:23:47 wiretapped has joined
  91 2013-09-03 01:24:09 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  92 2013-09-03 01:27:28 coryfields has left ()
  93 2013-09-03 01:27:40 cfields has joined
  94 2013-09-03 01:36:05 digitalmagus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  95 2013-09-03 01:36:23 digitalmagus has joined
  96 2013-09-03 01:36:38 jgarzik has joined
  97 2013-09-03 01:36:38 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
  98 2013-09-03 01:36:38 jgarzik has joined
  99 2013-09-03 01:37:39 reneg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 100 2013-09-03 01:38:03 reneg has joined
 101 2013-09-03 01:40:34 normanrichards has joined
 102 2013-09-03 01:46:09 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 103 2013-09-03 01:46:33 reneg has joined
 104 2013-09-03 01:46:52 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 105 2013-09-03 01:47:55 wiretapped has joined
 106 2013-09-03 01:50:19 Eiii has joined
 107 2013-09-03 01:50:49 CodeShark has joined
 108 2013-09-03 01:50:54 ProfMac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 109 2013-09-03 01:52:24 rdponticelli_ has joined
 110 2013-09-03 01:52:24 CodeShark has quit (Client Quit)
 111 2013-09-03 01:52:32 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 112 2013-09-03 01:54:03 ProfMac has joined
 113 2013-09-03 01:54:55 paybitcoin1 has joined
 114 2013-09-03 01:55:57 CodeShark has joined
 115 2013-09-03 01:56:09 paybitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 116 2013-09-03 01:56:26 peetaur2 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 117 2013-09-03 01:58:09 Jere_Jones has joined
 118 2013-09-03 01:58:09 Jere_Jones has quit (Changing host)
 119 2013-09-03 01:58:09 Jere_Jones has joined
 120 2013-09-03 02:02:28 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 121 2013-09-03 02:02:51 Plinker_ has joined
 122 2013-09-03 02:04:54 sarahchun_BTO has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 123 2013-09-03 02:05:16 Transisto has joined
 124 2013-09-03 02:05:43 ProfMac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 125 2013-09-03 02:06:03 ProfMac has joined
 126 2013-09-03 02:07:42 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 127 2013-09-03 02:15:20 digitalmagus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 128 2013-09-03 02:15:39 digitalmagus has joined
 129 2013-09-03 02:15:39 digitalmagus has quit (Changing host)
 130 2013-09-03 02:15:39 digitalmagus has joined
 131 2013-09-03 02:22:58 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 132 2013-09-03 02:24:02 yubrew has joined
 133 2013-09-03 02:24:03 <maaku> ahmedbodi: better luck on #bitcoin-mining or similar
 134 2013-09-03 02:24:14 <ahmedbodi> thnks maaku
 135 2013-09-03 02:24:53 reneg_ has joined
 136 2013-09-03 02:25:07 Heimdall has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 137 2013-09-03 02:26:18 shesek has joined
 138 2013-09-03 02:26:33 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 139 2013-09-03 02:26:36 ProfMac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 140 2013-09-03 02:26:47 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 141 2013-09-03 02:27:10 ProfMac has joined
 142 2013-09-03 02:28:59 <amiller> i'm trying to understand how conflicting transactions affect misbehavior
 143 2013-09-03 02:29:11 <amiller> if you send a node a transact that conflicts with a transaction in its mempool
 144 2013-09-03 02:29:22 <amiller> then does it assign you a misbehavior penalty?
 145 2013-09-03 02:29:54 <amiller> i think it does
 146 2013-09-03 02:29:56 c0rw1n has joined
 147 2013-09-03 02:37:03 <CodeShark> no, it does not - it would be a bad thing because it would make it easy for an attacker to split the network
 148 2013-09-03 02:40:51 reneg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 149 2013-09-03 02:41:43 <amiller> CodeShark, this line is the else branch for if a coin is rejected from mempool
 150 2013-09-03 02:41:44 <amiller> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L3768
 151 2013-09-03 02:42:11 <amiller> uh its really the check on state.IsInvalid after that
 152 2013-09-03 02:42:34 <CodeShark> that's if it's missing inputs - not if it conflicts
 153 2013-09-03 02:44:10 <CodeShark> line 820 is where the check for conflicts begins
 154 2013-09-03 02:45:48 <amiller> ahh okay so a conflict makes mempool.accept() return false but it doesn't mark validation state as invalid
 155 2013-09-03 02:47:04 <amiller> thanks :]
 156 2013-09-03 02:58:23 CodeShark has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
 157 2013-09-03 02:58:57 CodeShark has joined
 158 2013-09-03 03:00:05 rdponticelli has joined
 159 2013-09-03 03:00:26 Subo1977_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 160 2013-09-03 03:00:51 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 161 2013-09-03 03:00:55 rdponticelli_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 162 2013-09-03 03:01:01 Subo1977 has joined
 163 2013-09-03 03:01:03 BTCOxygen has joined
 164 2013-09-03 03:06:05 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 165 2013-09-03 03:06:14 TheSeven has joined
 166 2013-09-03 03:10:39 <warren> Luke-Jr: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/versions.txt  if this is up to date, this is somewhat surprising.
 167 2013-09-03 03:19:28 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 168 2013-09-03 03:20:13 <gmaxwell> amiller: the _goal_ with the misbehavior code is that nodes which are correctly working but potentially surrounded by attackers won't make an honest peer disconnect them. Or, in other words, misbehavior should never be node-transitive across a correct node.
 169 2013-09-03 03:20:31 <amiller> ok that makes more sense
 170 2013-09-03 03:20:50 ticean has joined
 171 2013-09-03 03:21:15 <gmaxwell> amiller: It's perfectly possible that we've screwed that up someplace so you should watch out for that, but every time we add one we're evaluating it against that criteria. (and if you find such a case let us know!)
 172 2013-09-03 03:25:57 <Luke-Jr> warren: it should be; why is it surprising?
 173 2013-09-03 03:27:13 normanrichards has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 174 2013-09-03 03:27:31 AndyOfiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 175 2013-09-03 03:40:39 chax_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 176 2013-09-03 03:40:59 chax has joined
 177 2013-09-03 03:43:16 ticean has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 178 2013-09-03 03:43:36 ticean has joined
 179 2013-09-03 03:46:22 digitalmagus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 180 2013-09-03 03:46:40 digitalmagus has joined
 181 2013-09-03 03:46:40 digitalmagus has quit (Changing host)
 182 2013-09-03 03:46:40 digitalmagus has joined
 183 2013-09-03 03:48:16 HaltingState has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 184 2013-09-03 03:49:36 normanrichards has joined
 185 2013-09-03 03:51:57 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 186 2013-09-03 03:54:19 roconnor has joined
 187 2013-09-03 03:55:21 roconnor has quit (Client Quit)
 188 2013-09-03 03:59:34 <numismatics> is there a (python) script that will perform OP_CHECKSIG?
 189 2013-09-03 03:59:49 reneg has joined
 190 2013-09-03 04:00:41 danda__ has joined
 191 2013-09-03 04:03:07 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 192 2013-09-03 04:03:46 CodeShark has quit (Quit: My Mac Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 193 2013-09-03 04:04:56 justusranvier has joined
 194 2013-09-03 04:13:38 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 195 2013-09-03 04:13:58 moarrr has joined
 196 2013-09-03 04:14:32 fant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 197 2013-09-03 04:14:43 <maaku> numismatics: look at pynode
 198 2013-09-03 04:14:51 fant has joined
 199 2013-09-03 04:15:15 <numismatics> ty
 200 2013-09-03 04:16:58 cads has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 201 2013-09-03 04:20:11 danda__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 202 2013-09-03 04:26:30 chax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 203 2013-09-03 04:26:34 wei_ has joined
 204 2013-09-03 04:26:56 chax has joined
 205 2013-09-03 04:35:57 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 206 2013-09-03 04:36:27 Pengoo has joined
 207 2013-09-03 04:36:45 Phoebus has joined
 208 2013-09-03 04:38:12 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 209 2013-09-03 04:39:13 btcbtc has quit (Quit: btcbtc)
 210 2013-09-03 04:42:14 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 211 2013-09-03 04:43:04 zypher has joined
 212 2013-09-03 04:43:17 ericmuyser has joined
 213 2013-09-03 04:43:44 zypher has left ()
 214 2013-09-03 04:49:51 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172009.msg3069540#msg3069540  :-/ oh gesh what now
 215 2013-09-03 04:50:57 Andrevan has joined
 216 2013-09-03 04:52:21 <k9quaint> just more grist for my booming tinfoil business
 217 2013-09-03 04:53:30 <gmaxwell> "Bitfoil"
 218 2013-09-03 04:53:42 <gmaxwell> someone should totally make a site that sells little foil hats for bitcoin.
 219 2013-09-03 04:53:51 <gmaxwell> "Protection against the state's mind control rays!"
 220 2013-09-03 04:57:08 <gmaxwell> "With enhanced bernanke blocking bimetal construction"
 221 2013-09-03 04:57:35 Jere_Jones has quit ()
 222 2013-09-03 04:58:21 tmsk has joined
 223 2013-09-03 04:59:38 mintmoney has joined
 224 2013-09-03 04:59:56 HaltingState has joined
 225 2013-09-03 05:02:15 ThomasV has joined
 226 2013-09-03 05:02:25 viperhr1 has joined
 227 2013-09-03 05:03:08 viperhr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 228 2013-09-03 05:03:29 <porquilho> gmaxwell lol
 229 2013-09-03 05:03:57 mintyFresh has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 230 2013-09-03 05:07:06 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 231 2013-09-03 05:07:50 btcbtc has joined
 232 2013-09-03 05:08:03 moarrr has quit ()
 233 2013-09-03 05:13:53 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 234 2013-09-03 05:14:14 Transisto has quit ()
 235 2013-09-03 05:14:41 Cory has quit ()
 236 2013-09-03 05:16:57 btcbtc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 237 2013-09-03 05:17:25 rdponticelli has joined
 238 2013-09-03 05:24:33 bizoro has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 239 2013-09-03 05:30:19 jgarzik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 240 2013-09-03 05:35:46 paracyst has quit ()
 241 2013-09-03 05:37:04 Andrevan has quit ()
 242 2013-09-03 05:38:14 malaimo_ has joined
 243 2013-09-03 05:38:58 <k9quaint> grrr, somebody already has bitfoil.com :(
 244 2013-09-03 05:41:01 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 245 2013-09-03 05:41:26 <warren> Luke-Jr: surprising so many are still running 0.8.1
 246 2013-09-03 05:41:30 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 247 2013-09-03 05:41:50 <gmaxwell> warren: we haven't done an alert induced upgrade beyond that.
 248 2013-09-03 05:42:05 <gmaxwell> and there have always been a lot of older nodes...
 249 2013-09-03 05:42:44 <warren> we alerted all previous clients and a large number of them are still running the year old version ...
 250 2013-09-03 05:44:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, "Note that it starts with 43 zero bits. Why? The block target difficulty was much lower (around 32 bits), so we can assume Satoshi did this on purpose."
 251 2013-09-03 05:44:45 <phantomcircuit> wat
 252 2013-09-03 05:44:47 <phantomcircuit> no we cant
 253 2013-09-03 05:45:21 <k9quaint> are you applying logic to that post?
 254 2013-09-03 05:45:44 <k9quaint> I hope you are at least wearing safety goggles
 255 2013-09-03 05:46:05 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yea evidence suggests he didn't in fact, there wasn't enough extra nonce motion there to indicate substantially more than 2^32 work, and moreover there were no 2^32 sufficient solutions with smaller nonces.
 256 2013-09-03 05:46:33 <gmaxwell> Sergio does some good analysis generally, though I think he concludes a little too fast (sometimes a flaw I share too!)
 257 2013-09-03 05:48:28 <k9quaint> "There is a long history of using aluminum to both deflect mind control signals and to control them. Evidence suggests that the ancient Atlanteans used aluminum armor and psychotrons in their wars with the Phoenician Old Dynasty."
 258 2013-09-03 05:49:00 <k9quaint> sometimes, I think the url specification is too flexible when I land on sites with stuff like that on them
 259 2013-09-03 05:50:10 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 260 2013-09-03 05:50:11 <warren> k9quaint: I thought ancient Atlanteans had powered force fields and hyperdrive tech, or at least the ones on TV did...
 261 2013-09-03 05:50:54 <k9quaint> I started looking up how to make top qualify hats out of tinfoil and almost immediately regretted it
 262 2013-09-03 05:51:05 <k9quaint> I will just stick to selling foil in bulk for BTC :(
 263 2013-09-03 05:51:41 <nsh> gmaxwell, what's being contended there? (re: satoshi/nonce motion)
 264 2013-09-03 05:52:13 <nsh> ;;google Note that it starts with 43 zero bits
 265 2013-09-03 05:52:14 <gribble> IPv6 address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_address>; SparkNotes: Holes: Chapters 36–43: <http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/holes/section10.rhtml>; Oracle Certified System Configurations - Java SE 6: <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/system-configurations-135212.html>
 266 2013-09-03 05:52:17 <nsh> meh
 267 2013-09-03 05:52:52 fant has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 268 2013-09-03 05:52:56 * nsh reads the thread
 269 2013-09-03 05:53:05 <warren> k9quaint: they also make lead foil.  It's quite fragile, but assuming you have no holes it might be better than aluminum at this goal...
 270 2013-09-03 05:54:18 <gmaxwell> it needs to be quad metal foil, a layer of tin (for durability), a layer of alumnium (for mind control rays), a layer of sliver (for RF immunity), and a layer of gold (found soundness).
 271 2013-09-03 05:54:24 <gmaxwell> s/found/for/
 272 2013-09-03 05:54:41 <k9quaint> yes, because the symptoms of heavy metal poisoning is just what we want to add on to the various neurosis of the bitcoin world ;)
 273 2013-09-03 05:55:00 Namworld has quit ()
 274 2013-09-03 05:55:02 <nsh> help! my cheap multifoil has clay feet!
 275 2013-09-03 05:55:43 <warren> k9quaint: I want to put that quote on a billboard somewhere.
 276 2013-09-03 05:55:53 <warren> context isn't needed
 277 2013-09-03 05:56:24 <k9quaint> "This too shall pass" <-- another statement that is always true, no matter the context :P
 278 2013-09-03 06:05:14 macboz has joined
 279 2013-09-03 06:12:09 toffoo has joined
 280 2013-09-03 06:14:16 Transisto has joined
 281 2013-09-03 06:15:57 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 282 2013-09-03 06:16:07 Transisto has joined
 283 2013-09-03 06:18:45 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 284 2013-09-03 06:19:04 Transisto has joined
 285 2013-09-03 06:26:36 Thepok has joined
 286 2013-09-03 06:32:55 porquilho has quit ()
 287 2013-09-03 06:34:11 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 288 2013-09-03 06:42:19 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
 289 2013-09-03 06:42:54 toffoo_ has joined
 290 2013-09-03 06:42:57 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 291 2013-09-03 06:59:46 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 292 2013-09-03 07:01:24 OPrime has joined
 293 2013-09-03 07:01:42 handle has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 294 2013-09-03 07:09:15 handle has joined
 295 2013-09-03 07:10:22 awishformore has joined
 296 2013-09-03 07:22:11 ahbritto has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 297 2013-09-03 07:22:42 digitalmagus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 298 2013-09-03 07:23:01 digitalmagus has joined
 299 2013-09-03 07:23:01 digitalmagus has quit (Changing host)
 300 2013-09-03 07:23:01 digitalmagus has joined
 301 2013-09-03 07:26:59 egis has joined
 302 2013-09-03 07:27:12 justusranvier has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 303 2013-09-03 07:27:32 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 304 2013-09-03 07:28:27 sacredchao has joined
 305 2013-09-03 07:31:52 ahbritto has joined
 306 2013-09-03 07:40:52 sensorii has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 307 2013-09-03 07:41:52 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 308 2013-09-03 07:42:56 arioBarzan has joined
 309 2013-09-03 07:43:33 zeiris has joined
 310 2013-09-03 07:44:02 zeiris has quit (Client Quit)
 311 2013-09-03 07:44:49 guruvan has joined
 312 2013-09-03 07:44:56 ticean has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 313 2013-09-03 07:45:18 sensorii has joined
 314 2013-09-03 07:45:36 ticean has joined
 315 2013-09-03 07:45:38 <arioBarzan> is bitcoin still using irc as one of its bootstrap methods?
 316 2013-09-03 07:46:40 <gmaxwell> No.
 317 2013-09-03 07:46:46 <gmaxwell> and hasn't in a long time.
 318 2013-09-03 07:46:55 c0rw1n has joined
 319 2013-09-03 07:48:02 <SomeoneWeird> a very long time
 320 2013-09-03 07:48:08 <arioBarzan> I see strMainNetDNSSeed and also pnSeed in net.cpp. are these two main sources of finding initial nodes, assuming peers.dat is empty?
 321 2013-09-03 07:49:44 <warren> generally yes.  IRC was disabled a while ago.
 322 2013-09-03 07:49:46 <gmaxwell> yep, unless you've provided nodes via addr.txt addnode or connect.
 323 2013-09-03 07:50:10 <gmaxwell> warren: not "generally" the code is gone.
 324 2013-09-03 07:50:30 <warren> yes to his question
 325 2013-09-03 07:50:36 <warren> nevermind...
 326 2013-09-03 07:51:10 <arioBarzan> gmaxwell: may I ask whether you are a contributor to litecoin as well?
 327 2013-09-03 07:51:27 * warren facepalm
 328 2013-09-03 07:52:04 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: only by virtue of litcoin copying code I've written.
 329 2013-09-03 07:52:53 t7 has joined
 330 2013-09-03 07:53:01 Guest80624 is now known as abrkn
 331 2013-09-03 07:53:02 abrkn has quit ()
 332 2013-09-03 07:53:13 abrkn has joined
 333 2013-09-03 07:53:23 <JyZyXEL> can the current blockchain be downloaded with the older 0.7 clients or has there been a fork yet?
 334 2013-09-03 07:53:57 <warren> JyZyXEL: fork has happened, use Luke-Jr's 0.7 backport which remains compatible
 335 2013-09-03 07:54:21 <gmaxwell> I made some recommendations about LTC's broken fee policy after it first started and as a result the litcoin community accused me of attacking it. Art argued against using scrypt for POW with me, then put it in an altcoin. I got called names by the LTC community when I pointed out that the state space of the parameters they used wouldn't stop gpus at all.
 336 2013-09-03 07:54:38 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: btw, its not that scrypt is bad
 337 2013-09-03 07:54:42 <Diablo-D3> its that they use scrypt wrtong
 338 2013-09-03 07:54:45 <gmaxwell> While there are some perfectly fine litecoin users, the ltc community as a whole strikes me as being filled with not nice people.
 339 2013-09-03 07:54:51 <Diablo-D3> if I started an alt coin right now
 340 2013-09-03 07:54:55 <Diablo-D3> I'd use scrypt
 341 2013-09-03 07:55:09 mrkent has joined
 342 2013-09-03 07:55:27 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: its a dumb goal in any case, go look at the logs from here in late 2010 / early 2011 with art and I arguing over it. He convinced me.
 343 2013-09-03 07:56:02 Eiii has quit ()
 344 2013-09-03 07:56:06 <warren> gmaxwell: the ltc community as defined as who?  Seems to be entirely different people from back then.
 345 2013-09-03 07:56:16 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well, I think the goal of "cpu defined mining only" is a worthy goal
 346 2013-09-03 07:56:37 <warren> Yes, Art failed at that, on purpose or not doesn't matter today.
 347 2013-09-03 07:56:40 <gmaxwell> POW converts energy into proof, the goal is consuming a scarce resource so the ideal rational behavior is to only put all your effort on the one chain you think will dominate. Assuming all the details hold, all you can do is shuffle around some constant factors.
 348 2013-09-03 07:56:42 <warren> It is what it is.
 349 2013-09-03 07:57:22 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah but if I were to write my own altchain
 350 2013-09-03 07:57:31 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I would obviously be believing my chain will win
 351 2013-09-03 07:57:56 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: this wasn't a commentary between altcoins doof, it's a comment about actually achieving a consensus inside one.
 352 2013-09-03 07:58:11 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah, but we dont have to do that, thats what the software is for
 353 2013-09-03 07:58:17 <gmaxwell> (Though I suppose it applies somewhat between too all other things equal)
 354 2013-09-03 07:58:22 <gmaxwell> ...
 355 2013-09-03 07:58:32 <Diablo-D3> what?
 356 2013-09-03 07:58:44 <Diablo-D3> if they dont think bitcoin is the future, why are they using it so much
 357 2013-09-03 07:58:49 digitalmagus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 358 2013-09-03 07:59:04 <Diablo-D3> and dont give me that "well, they use ltc" shit
 359 2013-09-03 07:59:09 digitalmagus has joined
 360 2013-09-03 07:59:09 digitalmagus has quit (Changing host)
 361 2013-09-03 07:59:09 digitalmagus has joined
 362 2013-09-03 07:59:13 <Diablo-D3> they cant use their ltc, exchange them for btc, and then sell the btc.
 363 2013-09-03 07:59:27 justusranvier has joined
 364 2013-09-03 07:59:32 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 365 2013-09-03 07:59:35 <JyZyXEL> warren: know how long it took after 15th of May when the safeguard was lifted that a fork occured?
 366 2013-09-03 07:59:42 <warren> What did folks expect GPU owners would do when ASIC's made it impossible to mine Bitcoin?   Just sell hardware to <gaming market> and quit?  (This is not arguing that scrypt GPU is a good thing.  It just is, and one day in the future it won't be.)
 367 2013-09-03 07:59:57 <warren> JyZyXEL: hm, happened in recent weeks
 368 2013-09-03 08:00:25 <gmaxwell> warren: well litecoin promised that gpus couldn't mine it. ::shrugs::
 369 2013-09-03 08:00:37 <gmaxwell> JyZyXEL: "fork" is complicated.
 370 2013-09-03 08:01:01 <warren> I mean, Litecoin exists and it is what it is.  I'm not saying it's good.  There are things about it that I don't like and can't be changed.
 371 2013-09-03 08:01:23 <gmaxwell> JyZyXEL: versions prior to 0.8 couldn't follow along with new blocks in a somewhat non-determinstic way that depended on the fine structure of the node's local database.
 372 2013-09-03 08:02:08 <gmaxwell> JyZyXEL: there are still unmodified 0.7 nodes that are trucking along, though the recent trigger block seems to have gotten most of them.
 373 2013-09-03 08:02:27 viperhr1 has joined
 374 2013-09-03 08:02:35 <gmaxwell> JyZyXEL: the non-determinism of it was why it was absolutely essential to fix it via a hardfork.
 375 2013-09-03 08:03:12 justusranvier has joined
 376 2013-09-03 08:03:33 <gmaxwell> warren: profitability of bitcoin gpu mining was pretty low by many people's standards long before any asic stuff was available. And we had reasonably efficient fpga miners for a long time to bridge the gap.
 377 2013-09-03 08:04:07 <JyZyXEL> gmaxwell: are you saying its not certain a one trigger block exists that triggers all the 0.7 users?
 378 2013-09-03 08:04:07 <gmaxwell> warren: most people with really big gpu farms (myself included) had wound them down and sold them off sometime before.
 379 2013-09-03 08:04:09 <warren> gmaxwell: quite clever, those who bought FPGA's then scared away more FPGA buyers with promises of ASIC "soon" =)
 380 2013-09-03 08:04:30 <Diablo-D3> yes and now
 381 2013-09-03 08:04:33 <Diablo-D3> asic buyers
 382 2013-09-03 08:04:34 <gmaxwell> warren: hm, I don't think "those woh bought FPGAs" were doing that, BFL did that.
 383 2013-09-03 08:04:37 <Diablo-D3> are scaring away potential buyers
 384 2013-09-03 08:04:37 <Diablo-D3> with
 385 2013-09-03 08:04:40 <arioBarzan> If one wants to mine some fake bitcoins on mainnet, I thought he would have to run at least two nodes locally. Apparently you don't need that. if you mine only one fake block, then you could put its hash in checkpoints and continue mining as a misbehaving node.
 386 2013-09-03 08:04:40 <Diablo-D3> 28nm asics
 387 2013-09-03 08:04:46 <Diablo-D3> and talk about some mystical end game
 388 2013-09-03 08:05:09 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: no one with asic in hands seem to have even the slighest problem selling them— the prices the market is paying for miners are higher than they've ever bin.
 389 2013-09-03 08:05:20 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: maybe
 390 2013-09-03 08:05:28 <Diablo-D3> that reminds me, I need to pay dmc dividends
 391 2013-09-03 08:05:32 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: huh? it will not mine unless there is a connection up.
 392 2013-09-03 08:06:05 <gmaxwell> getblocktemplate and getwork should both return nothing when you have no connections up.
 393 2013-09-03 08:06:06 GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
 394 2013-09-03 08:06:18 <warren> gmaxwell: I'm not sure about "most", when ASIC's finally pushed BTC difficulty well outside of any GPU profitability, we saw massive scrypt hashrate increases in Litecoin and the <too many> scrypt clones equivalent to maybe 15-20TH of sha256d GPU's.
 395 2013-09-03 08:06:29 <gmaxwell> (of course you can go remove that test)
 396 2013-09-03 08:06:46 <gmaxwell> warren: or someone finally has some reasonably efficient scrypt mining FPGA farms going.
 397 2013-09-03 08:07:06 <gmaxwell> there was never 20TH of sha256d gpu power, not even close.
 398 2013-09-03 08:07:15 <warren> gmaxwell: probably a mix of both
 399 2013-09-03 08:07:32 <warren> there's also a lot of people buying GPU's *now* /me facepalm
 400 2013-09-03 08:08:01 <JyZyXEL> i wonder how many GPU's have died from mining
 401 2013-09-03 08:08:14 <gmaxwell> (I think people don't quite appreciate how fast the 28nm FPGAs were, since no one was productizing them)
 402 2013-09-03 08:08:19 <arioBarzan> gmaxwell: After putting my fake block in checkpoints I connected to mainnet and because it connects to other nodes I could continue mining. but my mined blocks obviously did not get accepted by anybody rather than myself.
 403 2013-09-03 08:08:38 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: oh sure.
 404 2013-09-03 08:09:00 <gmaxwell> kind of a really lame and inefficient way to replace a single extra command.
 405 2013-09-03 08:09:27 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: the only reason it works that way is so that you don't waste a lot of power mining on a dead end chain on a totally isolated node.
 406 2013-09-03 08:12:12 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
 407 2013-09-03 08:12:22 <arioBarzan> I suspect my ip get blacklisted by other nodes very fast, because of lots of invalid blocks and transactions.
 408 2013-09-03 08:14:38 <warren> arioBarzan: what is your goal in asking these seemingly random questions?
 409 2013-09-03 08:15:01 <arioBarzan> I guess if one node pull a %51 attack, maybe other nodes could fork their own chain and put it in checkpoints.
 410 2013-09-03 08:15:02 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 411 2013-09-03 08:16:07 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 412 2013-09-03 08:19:11 <gmaxwell> arioBarzan: they could, but why bother?
 413 2013-09-03 08:19:42 <gmaxwell> the attacker would just spoil them again, and if you can establish consensus using checkpoints you don't need bitcoin at all— base your currency on that mechenism whatever it is.
 414 2013-09-03 08:23:05 arioBarzan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 415 2013-09-03 08:23:22 <warren> damn it.  I was going to respond to him.
 416 2013-09-03 08:26:00 <gmaxwell> http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/  here is sergio's latest post.
 417 2013-09-03 08:27:18 <gmaxwell> though I don't think there is any great mystery (and endianness? lol) ... the nonce gets reset when there is a new block. if you seep nonces starting at zero at some particular rate which isn't a big multiple of 2^32/600 you'll end up with a non-uniform distribution.
 418 2013-09-03 08:32:57 Zoop_ has joined
 419 2013-09-03 08:34:56 Applicat_ has joined
 420 2013-09-03 08:34:57 Applicat_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 421 2013-09-03 08:35:37 Applicat_ has joined
 422 2013-09-03 08:35:44 Grouver has joined
 423 2013-09-03 08:37:54 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 424 2013-09-03 08:38:00 <JyZyXEL> a secret message embedded into the blockchain! :-O
 425 2013-09-03 08:38:21 Application has joined
 426 2013-09-03 08:38:22 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 427 2013-09-03 08:38:58 Application has joined
 428 2013-09-03 08:40:04 <gmaxwell> no, no secret message.
 429 2013-09-03 08:40:16 <gmaxwell> Broken software, almost certantly.
 430 2013-09-03 08:40:29 <gmaxwell> or just statistics...
 431 2013-09-03 08:41:41 Applicat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 432 2013-09-03 08:42:23 fanquake has joined
 433 2013-09-03 08:42:28 Applicat_ has joined
 434 2013-09-03 08:43:02 Grouver has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!)
 435 2013-09-03 08:43:20 <JyZyXEL> i like how insane it gets with the list of values picked up from the statistics and then the ideas of what those values could mean :))
 436 2013-09-03 08:44:05 Grouver has joined
 437 2013-09-03 08:45:36 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 438 2013-09-03 09:00:43 ThomasV has joined
 439 2013-09-03 09:09:24 msvb-lab has joined
 440 2013-09-03 09:11:46 Grouver has quit (Quit:  Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
 441 2013-09-03 09:12:01 Grouver has joined
 442 2013-09-03 09:14:13 cypher has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 443 2013-09-03 09:15:42 Applicat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 444 2013-09-03 09:17:17 Application has joined
 445 2013-09-03 09:18:48 cypher has joined
 446 2013-09-03 09:20:27 Subo1977 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 447 2013-09-03 09:20:51 Subo1977 has joined
 448 2013-09-03 09:31:47 viperhr1 has joined
 449 2013-09-03 09:38:14 Thepok has joined
 450 2013-09-03 09:45:25 Grouver has quit (Quit:  Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
 451 2013-09-03 09:47:05 msvb-lab has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 452 2013-09-03 09:54:14 zeiris has joined
 453 2013-09-03 09:56:05 fant has joined
 454 2013-09-03 09:56:09 fant has quit (Client Quit)
 455 2013-09-03 10:05:58 msvb-lab has joined
 456 2013-09-03 10:06:27 wei_ has quit (Quit: wei_)
 457 2013-09-03 10:08:01 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 458 2013-09-03 10:11:33 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 459 2013-09-03 10:13:13 ie6 has joined
 460 2013-09-03 10:14:32 nowan has joined
 461 2013-09-03 10:21:44 zerogravity has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 462 2013-09-03 10:22:52 o3u has joined
 463 2013-09-03 10:25:24 viperhr1 has joined
 464 2013-09-03 10:27:50 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 465 2013-09-03 10:30:48 handle has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 466 2013-09-03 10:37:00 fant has joined
 467 2013-09-03 10:37:20 jtimon has joined
 468 2013-09-03 10:38:04 handle has joined
 469 2013-09-03 10:40:44 arioBarzan has joined
 470 2013-09-03 10:41:37 kha0Z has joined
 471 2013-09-03 10:41:42 <kha0Z> hello
 472 2013-09-03 10:42:38 Muis has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 473 2013-09-03 10:46:15 <_dr> gmaxwell: I think his point in the blog was that even with some nonce wrapping there is still some slight bias towards 0 in the msb
 474 2013-09-03 10:46:20 <_dr> which, to me, seems about right
 475 2013-09-03 10:46:37 <arioBarzan> Since Microsoft is buying Nokia mobile phone unit, is there a concern about possible patent claims on qt-framework, although it is currently licensed under LGPL 2.1?
 476 2013-09-03 10:46:49 <_dr> but I have to admit that I've never been too much of a statistics guy
 477 2013-09-03 10:47:02 <_dr> it just sounds right 'intuitively' ;)
 478 2013-09-03 10:49:58 arioBarzan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 479 2013-09-03 10:50:26 valparaiso has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 480 2013-09-03 10:52:19 <_dr> but his interpretation is rather disappointing
 481 2013-09-03 10:52:46 Subo1977 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 482 2013-09-03 10:53:15 Subo1977 has joined
 483 2013-09-03 10:53:29 Guest46576 has joined
 484 2013-09-03 10:53:53 Guest46576 has left ()
 485 2013-09-03 10:54:00 moarrr__ has joined
 486 2013-09-03 10:57:56 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 487 2013-09-03 10:57:57 peetaur has joined
 488 2013-09-03 10:58:20 peetaur is now known as Guest62356
 489 2013-09-03 10:58:56 debiantoruser has joined
 490 2013-09-03 10:58:58 o3u has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 491 2013-09-03 11:01:52 Guest62356 has quit (Client Quit)
 492 2013-09-03 11:02:07 Guest62356 has joined
 493 2013-09-03 11:02:10 Guest62356 is now known as peetaur
 494 2013-09-03 11:02:39 peetaur is now known as Guest23720
 495 2013-09-03 11:03:46 Guest23720 has quit (Client Quit)
 496 2013-09-03 11:04:08 Guest23720 has joined
 497 2013-09-03 11:04:08 Guest23720 is now known as peetaur
 498 2013-09-03 11:04:38 peetaur is now known as Guest75576
 499 2013-09-03 11:04:50 Guest75576 is now known as peetaur
 500 2013-09-03 11:05:01 fant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 501 2013-09-03 11:06:20 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 502 2013-09-03 11:07:35 debiantoruser has joined
 503 2013-09-03 11:08:55 abrkn has quit ()
 504 2013-09-03 11:09:10 daybyter has joined
 505 2013-09-03 11:11:19 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 506 2013-09-03 11:13:20 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 507 2013-09-03 11:13:25 valparaiso_afk has joined
 508 2013-09-03 11:13:34 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 509 2013-09-03 11:13:35 valparaiso_afk is now known as valparaiso
 510 2013-09-03 11:14:04 debiantoruser has joined
 511 2013-09-03 11:17:19 arioBarzan has joined
 512 2013-09-03 11:18:13 valparaiso has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 513 2013-09-03 11:19:08 sensorii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 514 2013-09-03 11:19:44 bizoro has joined
 515 2013-09-03 11:19:53 wiretapped has joined
 516 2013-09-03 11:19:53 _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 517 2013-09-03 11:24:26 valparaiso_afk has joined
 518 2013-09-03 11:24:50 valparaiso_afk is now known as valparaiso
 519 2013-09-03 11:25:55 one_zero has quit ()
 520 2013-09-03 11:29:03 valparaiso has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 521 2013-09-03 11:29:29 _flow_ has joined
 522 2013-09-03 11:29:30 sensorii has joined
 523 2013-09-03 11:32:11 shesek has joined
 524 2013-09-03 11:34:38 macboz has joined
 525 2013-09-03 11:37:34 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 526 2013-09-03 11:42:50 Plinker_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 527 2013-09-03 11:43:54 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 528 2013-09-03 11:50:04 CheckDavid has joined
 529 2013-09-03 11:50:28 da2ce7 has joined
 530 2013-09-03 12:01:24 moarrr__ has quit ()
 531 2013-09-03 12:01:46 bmcgee has joined
 532 2013-09-03 12:03:06 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: if you used scrypt correctly, you'd make it worse in other ways - verification would require just as much memory as mining
 533 2013-09-03 12:03:43 bmcgee has quit (Client Quit)
 534 2013-09-03 12:06:07 bizoro has quit (Changing host)
 535 2013-09-03 12:06:07 bizoro has joined
 536 2013-09-03 12:08:30 arioBarzan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 537 2013-09-03 12:11:46 ahmedbodi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 538 2013-09-03 12:12:50 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 539 2013-09-03 12:13:11 BTCOxygen has joined
 540 2013-09-03 12:13:41 arioBarzan has joined
 541 2013-09-03 12:14:13 ahmedbodi has joined
 542 2013-09-03 12:16:09 arioBarzan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 543 2013-09-03 12:19:57 paraipan has joined
 544 2013-09-03 12:20:08 TD has joined
 545 2013-09-03 12:20:28 <TD> petertodd: is your testnet seed fully working at the moment? i can only get 1 IP out of it
 546 2013-09-03 12:20:52 <TD> petertodd: and that peer is dead
 547 2013-09-03 12:27:32 abrkn has joined
 548 2013-09-03 12:28:05 valparaiso_afk has joined
 549 2013-09-03 12:28:29 valparaiso_afk is now known as valparaiso
 550 2013-09-03 12:38:42 AlexNagy has joined
 551 2013-09-03 12:39:20 AlexNagy has left ()
 552 2013-09-03 12:43:05 <phantomcircuit> TD, is it just me or is it impossible to build multibit?
 553 2013-09-03 12:45:36 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 554 2013-09-03 12:45:48 <TD> er. i doubt it's impossible.
 555 2013-09-03 12:45:50 fanquake has left ()
 556 2013-09-03 12:45:53 <TD> i don't work on it so it's been a while since i tried
 557 2013-09-03 12:45:58 <TD> what is the issue?
 558 2013-09-03 12:46:02 agricocb has joined
 559 2013-09-03 12:51:33 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 560 2013-09-03 12:51:37 <TD> phantomcircuit: anyway i suggest you just email jim. for some reason the maven file refers to some "MB-ALICE" version of bitcoinj, that i've never heard of. it must be jims branch of it.
 561 2013-09-03 12:51:42 * TD has no clue what ALICE is short for
 562 2013-09-03 12:52:13 <phantomcircuit> TD, it's not even that it's things like org.multibit.store not found
 563 2013-09-03 12:52:21 <phantomcircuit> which makes sense because that doesn't exist
 564 2013-09-03 12:52:33 <TD> which branch are you trying to build?
 565 2013-09-03 12:52:36 zacm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 566 2013-09-03 12:52:48 <phantomcircuit> TD, i've tried both master and develop with the same issue
 567 2013-09-03 12:52:52 zacm has joined
 568 2013-09-03 12:53:03 <phantomcircuit> it feels like there's some code that's not in git
 569 2013-09-03 12:53:16 <TD> ah
 570 2013-09-03 12:53:20 <TD> it discusses this in the readme
 571 2013-09-03 12:53:46 Subo1977 has joined
 572 2013-09-03 12:53:55 <TD> look at the section "A note on the bitcoinj dependency"
 573 2013-09-03 12:54:12 <TD> it says you need to clone his fork and then do a "mvn clean install"
 574 2013-09-03 12:54:20 <TD> after that it should be able to find the org.multibit.store classes and stuff
 575 2013-09-03 12:54:40 AndyOfiesh has joined
 576 2013-09-03 12:55:11 <TD> jim should really unfork himself
 577 2013-09-03 12:55:15 <TD> but i think he knows that
 578 2013-09-03 12:55:18 <phantomcircuit> lets give it a try
 579 2013-09-03 12:58:27 viperhr1 has joined
 580 2013-09-03 13:01:16 ie6 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 581 2013-09-03 13:01:33 <mhanne> hi! since you're talking about bitcoinj.. i would like to run the blocktester thing against bitcoin-ruby, but i'm a bit lost.. is there any documentation about it i've missed?
 582 2013-09-03 13:02:21 <mhanne> i think mvn clean package on master is working now, but not on bluematt/blocktester branch.. and even then i have no idea how to run it..
 583 2013-09-03 13:02:29 <phantomcircuit> TD, lol it fails a test
 584 2013-09-03 13:02:55 <TD> mhanne: email matt. the block tester uses bitcoinj but it's not maintained by me.
 585 2013-09-03 13:03:04 <phantomcircuit> transactionConfidence
 586 2013-09-03 13:03:10 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 587 2013-09-03 13:03:15 <phantomcircuit> PeerGroupTest
 588 2013-09-03 13:03:17 <TD> phantomcircuit: doh! you can do "mvn install -DskipTests" to get past that
 589 2013-09-03 13:03:26 <TD> phantomcircuit: can you pastebin me the failure? it might be flaky
 590 2013-09-03 13:03:26 yubrew has joined
 591 2013-09-03 13:03:39 MobiusL has joined
 592 2013-09-03 13:03:44 <mhanne> TD: thanks, will do
 593 2013-09-03 13:04:33 johnsoft has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 594 2013-09-03 13:05:34 <ThomasV> with bip32 and public derivations, if someone knows the private key of m/0/, will they be able to infer the parent's private key m/ ?
 595 2013-09-03 13:06:37 <phantomcircuit> ThomasV, yes
 596 2013-09-03 13:06:40 <phantomcircuit> TD, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=k0VPXGv1
 597 2013-09-03 13:06:42 <phantomcircuit> there's a ton more info but it's hard to tell where the test starts
 598 2013-09-03 13:06:42 <phantomcircuit> (i think)
 599 2013-09-03 13:07:29 <TD> that's a multi-line error. anyway, i'd just skip it for now. the tests don't fail in upstream bitcoinj. so it's either got some system dependency i'm not aware of, or it's flaky, or jim broke it :)
 600 2013-09-03 13:07:40 <ThomasV> phantomcircuit: care to explain how?
 601 2013-09-03 13:07:58 <phantomcircuit> ThomasV, i actually dont understand it i just remember that being on of the issues
 602 2013-09-03 13:08:41 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 603 2013-09-03 13:09:09 jgarzik has joined
 604 2013-09-03 13:09:56 <phantomcircuit> TD, lol that fails in the examples... let me get you an error
 605 2013-09-03 13:10:14 <TD> i guess i should try his branch at some point
 606 2013-09-03 13:10:38 <phantomcircuit> TD, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=75vnde2U
 607 2013-09-03 13:10:52 <phantomcircuit> he merged a bunch of conflicts on the 31st
 608 2013-09-03 13:11:00 <phantomcircuit> im guessing he didn't get it exactly right
 609 2013-09-03 13:11:14 <TD> ah
 610 2013-09-03 13:11:15 <TD> yes
 611 2013-09-03 13:11:31 <TD> i took that dependency verification stuff out of examples because it wasn't ready to go
 612 2013-09-03 13:11:44 <TD> just delete that section of the examples/pom.xml - the stuff related to the dependency verifier
 613 2013-09-03 13:11:56 <TD> it's telling you, you have a "hacked" copy of the library. which as it's a fork is sorta true but mostly not :)
 614 2013-09-03 13:12:04 <TD> or you can just skip that crap and go into the core directory
 615 2013-09-03 13:12:08 <TD> and run "mvn install" from there
 616 2013-09-03 13:12:13 <TD> that'll skip examples and tools which you don't really need anyway
 617 2013-09-03 13:13:19 <ThomasV> " Given a child extended private key (ki,ci) and the integer i, an attacker cannot find the parent private key kpar more efficiently than a 2256 brute force of HMAC-SHA512. "
 618 2013-09-03 13:14:02 <phantomcircuit> ThomasV, iirc there is a huge difference between private derivation and public
 619 2013-09-03 13:14:05 <ThomasV> I'm wondering if there is a difference between private and public derivations
 620 2013-09-03 13:14:14 <ThomasV> yes that's my point
 621 2013-09-03 13:14:38 <ThomasV> than sentence is from the wiki
 622 2013-09-03 13:14:42 <ThomasV> *that*
 623 2013-09-03 13:14:55 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 624 2013-09-03 13:15:49 bmcgee has joined
 625 2013-09-03 13:16:40 <phantomcircuit> TD, Failed tests:   testExportTransactions(org.multibit.file.ExportTransactionsSubmitActionTest): Row 1 incorrect expected:<29 Jul 2013 [10]:23,"Sent to ""unenc...> but was:<29 Jul 2013 [02]:23,"Sent to ""unenc...>
 626 2013-09-03 13:16:52 <phantomcircuit> that looks like a timezone problem
 627 2013-09-03 13:16:57 bmcgee has quit (Client Quit)
 628 2013-09-03 13:17:00 <ThomasV> phantomcircuit: oh, the wiki says it. thanks
 629 2013-09-03 13:17:06 <phantomcircuit> i'll just skip the tests again...
 630 2013-09-03 13:17:11 <TD> that's some test jim has added
 631 2013-09-03 13:17:19 <TD> yeah looks like a dependency on british time
 632 2013-09-03 13:17:48 <phantomcircuit> ONLY THE BRITISH MAY WORK ON MULTIBIT
 633 2013-09-03 13:17:53 <TD> :)
 634 2013-09-03 13:18:35 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 635 2013-09-03 13:19:44 ahmedbodi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 636 2013-09-03 13:20:40 <phantomcircuit> TD, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YyzDHWxC
 637 2013-09-03 13:20:43 <phantomcircuit> wat
 638 2013-09-03 13:21:49 <TD> lol
 639 2013-09-03 13:22:08 <phantomcircuit> incase you're wondering
 640 2013-09-03 13:22:14 <phantomcircuit> that file seems to actually exist
 641 2013-09-03 13:22:18 <phantomcircuit> and be readable
 642 2013-09-03 13:22:40 normanrichards has joined
 643 2013-09-03 13:22:53 <TD> he checked in a complete copy of a mac jdk into git?
 644 2013-09-03 13:23:06 <phantomcircuit> TD, it would appear so
 645 2013-09-03 13:23:06 normanrichards has quit (Client Quit)
 646 2013-09-03 13:23:16 bmcgee has joined
 647 2013-09-03 13:23:24 <TD> well, i doubt you care about the packaging and shrinking aspects.
 648 2013-09-03 13:23:36 <TD> you've got a multibit.jar
 649 2013-09-03 13:23:42 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 650 2013-09-03 13:23:48 <TD> you should be able to run it now: cd target; java -jar multibit.jar
 651 2013-09-03 13:24:18 <phantomcircuit> TD, actual directory src/main/skeleton/mac/MultiBit.app/Contents/PlugIns/
 652 2013-09-03 13:24:25 <TD> ahh
 653 2013-09-03 13:24:25 <phantomcircuit> TD, directory it's looking for src/main/skeleton/mac/MultiBit.app/Contents/Plugins
 654 2013-09-03 13:24:31 <phantomcircuit> >.>
 655 2013-09-03 13:24:33 <TD> HFS+ isn't case sensitive, is it?
 656 2013-09-03 13:24:39 <TD> i think jim develops on a mac
 657 2013-09-03 13:24:40 normanrichards has joined
 658 2013-09-03 13:25:00 <TD> it's a single developer project, obscure dependencies on his setup probably sneak through because not many other people try to work on it
 659 2013-09-03 13:25:42 <phantomcircuit> TD, i can understand why it happens
 660 2013-09-03 13:25:59 <phantomcircuit> but i cant understand why people think this is production quality
 661 2013-09-03 13:26:13 <phantomcircuit> especially since clearly nobody else is building it
 662 2013-09-03 13:27:19 <TD> *shrug* it has users. they download and run it. it works. it'd be nice if multibit was a larger project, for sure.
 663 2013-09-03 13:27:45 <TD> unfortunately the alternatives are bitcoin-qt which has lots of developers, but is unusable as it's only full mode, or blockchain.info which is also just a single developer
 664 2013-09-03 13:28:03 Scrat is now known as assbot
 665 2013-09-03 13:28:10 assbot is now known as Scrat
 666 2013-09-03 13:28:33 <phantomcircuit> TD, as of 0.8.1 even the archive mode bitcoin-qt loads in about 48 hours on my netbook
 667 2013-09-03 13:28:44 <phantomcircuit> which is super underpowered compared to even the cheapest laptop
 668 2013-09-03 13:28:58 c0rw1n has joined
 669 2013-09-03 13:29:47 <TD> i'm pretty sure basically all wallets except the reference client are single developer, unfortunately. although in reality multibit is really "jim+me+others who work on bitcoinj"
 670 2013-09-03 13:29:52 datagutt has joined
 671 2013-09-03 13:29:52 ahmedbodi has joined
 672 2013-09-03 13:29:59 <TD> ditto for the android app
 673 2013-09-03 13:31:05 justusranvier has joined
 674 2013-09-03 13:31:47 <TD> i'm expecting that bitcoin-qt will become an SPV wallet as well at some point. then there'll be more competition
 675 2013-09-03 13:32:19 <phantomcircuit> TD, lol i tried to remove the wallet code
 676 2013-09-03 13:32:31 <phantomcircuit> it took me like 2 hours and i still had things randomly breaking
 677 2013-09-03 13:32:36 <phantomcircuit> just to remove it
 678 2013-09-03 13:32:48 <TD> sipa has done headers first sync, which is the bulk of the work.
 679 2013-09-03 13:32:58 <Belxjander> SPV?
 680 2013-09-03 13:33:04 <TD> although there are quite a lot of details to handle after that
 681 2013-09-03 13:33:13 <TD> spv aka "fast mode"
 682 2013-09-03 13:33:54 <Belxjander> Who works on the "Bitcoin Wallet" for Android? or the "Mycellum Wallet" ?
 683 2013-09-03 13:34:53 <Belxjander> TD: I've been considering making a "port" to AmigaOS for actually dealing with BlockChain's and CryptoCurrency wallets in a somewhat abstracted sense with any Application able to make use of a "Wallet" class
 684 2013-09-03 13:36:45 <TD> AmigaOS?
 685 2013-09-03 13:36:50 <TD> the android app is andreas schildbach
 686 2013-09-03 13:37:19 <Belxjander> yeah ...
 687 2013-09-03 13:37:28 <Belxjander> www.hyperion-entertainment.biz for the current developers
 688 2013-09-03 13:37:47 <Belxjander> www.acube-systems.biz + www.a-eon.com for the hardware
 689 2013-09-03 13:38:06 <Belxjander> modified from "Embedded" systems
 690 2013-09-03 13:41:10 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 691 2013-09-03 13:48:52 bizoro_ has joined
 692 2013-09-03 13:50:02 bizoro has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 693 2013-09-03 13:53:23 bizoro_ has left ()
 694 2013-09-03 13:53:35 bizoro has joined
 695 2013-09-03 13:57:57 cads has joined
 696 2013-09-03 14:07:32 OPrime has quit (Quit: OPrime)
 697 2013-09-03 14:07:40 normanrichards has quit ()
 698 2013-09-03 14:08:12 user893 has joined
 699 2013-09-03 14:08:44 user893 has quit (Client Quit)
 700 2013-09-03 14:13:29 mrkent has joined
 701 2013-09-03 14:13:29 mrkent has quit (Changing host)
 702 2013-09-03 14:13:29 mrkent has joined
 703 2013-09-03 14:17:11 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 704 2013-09-03 14:17:39 ahmedbodi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 705 2013-09-03 14:19:27 toffoo_ has quit ()
 706 2013-09-03 14:19:34 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 707 2013-09-03 14:19:53 cypher has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 708 2013-09-03 14:20:25 bizoro_ has joined
 709 2013-09-03 14:20:29 bizoro has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 710 2013-09-03 14:20:33 bizoro_ has left ()
 711 2013-09-03 14:21:01 ahmedbodi has joined
 712 2013-09-03 14:21:37 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 713 2013-09-03 14:23:47 cypher has joined
 714 2013-09-03 14:25:09 hnz has joined
 715 2013-09-03 14:26:22 knightz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 716 2013-09-03 14:27:35 OPrime has joined
 717 2013-09-03 14:29:41 <TD> goddamnit. what i wouldn't do for a functioning testnet block explorer
 718 2013-09-03 14:33:13 <jgarzik> mapsz 1400… on testnet?  good grief.
 719 2013-09-03 14:33:15 <jgarzik> TD, amen
 720 2013-09-03 14:35:04 joeykrim has quit (Quit: joeykrim)
 721 2013-09-03 14:37:12 joeykrim has joined
 722 2013-09-03 14:44:37 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 723 2013-09-03 14:45:20 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 724 2013-09-03 14:46:26 debiantoruser has joined
 725 2013-09-03 14:47:31 wei_ has joined
 726 2013-09-03 14:53:19 cz3141 has joined
 727 2013-09-03 14:55:00 rodarmor has quit (Quit: leaving)
 728 2013-09-03 14:56:29 mrkent has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 729 2013-09-03 14:58:52 <jouke> TD: I'll see if I can setup an abe instance for testnet.
 730 2013-09-03 14:59:07 <TD> jouke: that would be fantastic. does abe show unconfirmed transactions as well?
 731 2013-09-03 15:01:34 <jgarzik> +1
 732 2013-09-03 15:03:50 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 733 2013-09-03 15:04:19 <jouke> I know it has mempool support for bitcoin, I guess it will work with testnet as well.
 734 2013-09-03 15:04:20 debiantoruser has joined
 735 2013-09-03 15:04:29 t7 has quit (Quit: burn, and im going home)
 736 2013-09-03 15:07:44 harningt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 737 2013-09-03 15:08:22 AndyOfiesh has quit (Quit:  Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
 738 2013-09-03 15:08:30 etotheipi_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 739 2013-09-03 15:09:21 harningt has joined
 740 2013-09-03 15:09:56 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 741 2013-09-03 15:10:24 AndyOfiesh has joined
 742 2013-09-03 15:10:49 debiantoruser has joined
 743 2013-09-03 15:12:43 ThomasV_ has joined
 744 2013-09-03 15:13:09 <TD> jouke: that would be great
 745 2013-09-03 15:13:37 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 746 2013-09-03 15:13:42 ThomasV_ has quit (Client Quit)
 747 2013-09-03 15:13:46 <JyZyXEL> does it show unconfirmed txs?
 748 2013-09-03 15:14:04 ThomasV has joined
 749 2013-09-03 15:14:31 <AndyOfiesh> Is there a net gain in security running Bitcoin-Qt as root, given that the installation has not been tampered with?
 750 2013-09-03 15:15:53 <Luke-Jr> no
 751 2013-09-03 15:16:04 <Luke-Jr> there is never any security gain running things as root, AFAIK
 752 2013-09-03 15:16:11 <AndyOfiesh> It seems that would prevent user-level applications from yanking your private keys out of RAM. Is the risk greater than the benefit?
 753 2013-09-03 15:16:32 <Luke-Jr> AndyOfiesh: well, I'd suggest running it as a different user than your other software, but not as root ;)
 754 2013-09-03 15:17:04 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 755 2013-09-03 15:17:47 tmsk has quit (Quit: tmsk)
 756 2013-09-03 15:17:59 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 757 2013-09-03 15:18:01 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 758 2013-09-03 15:18:30 debiantoruser has joined
 759 2013-09-03 15:21:51 michagogo has joined
 760 2013-09-03 15:21:55 kha0Z has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 761 2013-09-03 15:23:32 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 762 2013-09-03 15:24:24 debiantoruser has joined
 763 2013-09-03 15:24:57 <jouke> Hmm, my new testnetnode is not getting any peers. Can I just copy a peers.dat from an other node?
 764 2013-09-03 15:25:28 Belxjander has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 765 2013-09-03 15:25:39 paracyst has joined
 766 2013-09-03 15:25:50 <michagogo> jouke: No connections at all?
 767 2013-09-03 15:25:56 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 768 2013-09-03 15:26:02 roconnor has joined
 769 2013-09-03 15:26:16 <michagogo> You could try a couple `addnode <address> onetry`
 770 2013-09-03 15:26:17 <michagogo> s
 771 2013-09-03 15:26:38 <jouke> I don't know any testnet nodes.
 772 2013-09-03 15:27:08 <abrkn> does sendMany accept string as numbeR?
 773 2013-09-03 15:27:33 <michagogo> no, it's {"string":decimal}
 774 2013-09-03 15:27:42 <abrkn> ok, that makes it a bit difficult with javascript
 775 2013-09-03 15:28:11 <abrkn> i JS, 0.00000001 evaluates to 1e-8
 776 2013-09-03 15:28:17 <abrkn> (is expressed as)
 777 2013-09-03 15:28:40 rdponticelli has joined
 778 2013-09-03 15:28:51 etotheipi_ has joined
 779 2013-09-03 15:28:51 <abrkn> JSON.stringify({ a: 0.00000001 }) == "{"a":1e-8}"
 780 2013-09-03 15:29:03 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 781 2013-09-03 15:29:44 debiantoruser has joined
 782 2013-09-03 15:30:31 <michagogo> jouke: what OS?
 783 2013-09-03 15:31:10 <michagogo> Use whatever tool is available on $os to run a DNS lookup on testnet-seed.bluematt.me and/or testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
 784 2013-09-03 15:32:30 <jouke> michagogo: I have copied an existing peers.dat and used it.
 785 2013-09-03 15:32:35 <michagogo> Ah, okay
 786 2013-09-03 15:33:04 <michagogo> (you could also `addnode 93.172.79.35 onetry`)
 787 2013-09-03 15:33:09 banghouse has joined
 788 2013-09-03 15:33:18 <jouke> Oh. Hmmm. It could pretty well be my routers DNS-suckage indeed.
 789 2013-09-03 15:34:38 <cz3141> have a "lost wallet issue". willing to offer a bounty, any suggestions/recommendations pls pm.
 790 2013-09-03 15:34:58 <michagogo> cz3141: What does "lost" mean in this case?
 791 2013-09-03 15:36:20 Belxjander has joined
 792 2013-09-03 15:36:29 <michagogo> cz3141: Lost in what way?
 793 2013-09-03 15:36:43 <cz3141> wallet on hd that has been reformatted and had new os installed.
 794 2013-09-03 15:37:21 <cz3141> and has been used for some time now. just received payment to wallet address that i thought i had updated to new wallet.
 795 2013-09-03 15:37:38 <michagogo> Ah.
 796 2013-09-03 15:37:45 <_dr> hm. really noone wrote a tool to find wallets yet?
 797 2013-09-03 15:38:16 <michagogo> First thing: if that hard drive is currently mounted read/write, unmount it right away before anything else
 798 2013-09-03 15:38:26 <cz3141> yes.
 799 2013-09-03 15:38:41 <Belxjander> cz3141: full or quick formatting?
 800 2013-09-03 15:39:10 <cz3141> full ): on debian
 801 2013-09-03 15:39:17 <Belxjander> then its gone
 802 2013-09-03 15:39:21 <michagogo> Ah, a full format... That's likely to zap it
 803 2013-09-03 15:39:26 <cz3141> that's what i guessed.
 804 2013-09-03 15:39:29 <michagogo> How much bitcoin are we talking here?
 805 2013-09-03 15:39:31 <Belxjander> michagogo: yeah its zapped
 806 2013-09-03 15:39:31 <cz3141> 21
 807 2013-09-03 15:39:38 <michagogo> Ouch. :-/
 808 2013-09-03 15:39:47 <_dr> some forensics lab might be able to recover them
 809 2013-09-03 15:39:50 <cz3141> its an address i forgot was out there to receive pmt tx
 810 2013-09-03 15:39:50 <Belxjander> cz3141: that is a substantial loss
 811 2013-09-03 15:39:56 <_dr> but i guess that will cost more than 21btc :(
 812 2013-09-03 15:40:04 <Diablo-D3> ;;ticker
 813 2013-09-03 15:40:05 <gribble> MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 146.40000, Best ask: 146.40004, Bid-ask spread: 0.00004, Last trade: 146.40000, 24 hour volume: 12973.98319875, 24 hour low: 142.20000, 24 hour high: 148.90893, 24 hour vwap: 145.56612
 814 2013-09-03 15:40:07 <cz3141> not insignificant unfortunately
 815 2013-09-03 15:40:12 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc 21 * 146
 816 2013-09-03 15:40:12 <gribble> 3066
 817 2013-09-03 15:40:15 <Diablo-D3> actually
 818 2013-09-03 15:40:17 <michagogo> cz3141: Yeah, addresses "out there to receive payment" are usually bad things
 819 2013-09-03 15:40:19 <Diablo-D3> it wont cost you that much to do it
 820 2013-09-03 15:40:23 <michagogo> Address reuse is bad.
 821 2013-09-03 15:40:33 <Diablo-D3> about $500
 822 2013-09-03 15:40:34 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 823 2013-09-03 15:40:52 <cz3141> i'm listening Diablo-D3
 824 2013-09-03 15:41:19 wei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 825 2013-09-03 15:41:22 <Diablo-D3> theres a few companies that can do it, google for em
 826 2013-09-03 15:42:11 <cz3141> m'ok. will shop around. thanks for suggestion.
 827 2013-09-03 15:42:27 <michagogo> cz3141: There does exist software that will scan the HD for anything resembling bitcoin privkeys, such as http://www.btcnn.com/2011/09/recovering-lost-due-to-format-bitcoin.html
 828 2013-09-03 15:42:43 <michagogo> But I don't know that any of that can help if a hard drive was full-formatted
 829 2013-09-03 15:43:18 <cz3141> i think i saw that. anyone tried it?
 830 2013-09-03 15:43:24 <_dr> michagogo: yes. downloading binaries and executing them with root privileges is always a good idea :)
 831 2013-09-03 15:43:27 wei_ has joined
 832 2013-09-03 15:43:37 <cz3141> lol. why yes.
 833 2013-09-03 15:43:56 <cz3141> which is why i hadnt tried it yet, thought i would ask around some first.
 834 2013-09-03 15:44:00 <michagogo> Well, it *is* open source
 835 2013-09-03 15:44:11 <michagogo> You can read the source and check that it's not malicious.
 836 2013-09-03 15:44:12 <cz3141> true. will take a peek.
 837 2013-09-03 15:44:26 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 838 2013-09-03 15:44:28 <_dr> just have a look at the source code of the client. maybe the wallet stores addresses (which include a hashsum)
 839 2013-09-03 15:44:28 <Diablo-D3> michagogo: well
 840 2013-09-03 15:44:32 <Diablo-D3> full formatting still doesnt
 841 2013-09-03 15:44:41 <Diablo-D3> but you wont be able to recover it with THAT software
 842 2013-09-03 15:44:52 <Diablo-D3> but it might still be able to be recovered
 843 2013-09-03 15:45:10 <Diablo-D3> (its why military spec /dev/random writing exists, just to prevent ANY recovery)
 844 2013-09-03 15:45:14 <_dr> cz3141: you would have to get a forensics lab to recover the previous (i.e. pre-formating) contents of your disk
 845 2013-09-03 15:45:15 <cz3141> some info out there dicusses opening hex editor and searching manually
 846 2013-09-03 15:45:24 <_dr> and then you can run the wallet-finder on this raw image
 847 2013-09-03 15:45:40 <cz3141> _dr ok.
 848 2013-09-03 15:46:04 <pigeons> is /dev/random writing any better than writing zeros?
 849 2013-09-03 15:47:04 <_dr> to really really safely delete you also need several iterations
 850 2013-09-03 15:47:24 <michagogo> Diablo-D3: What *exactly* does this format operation do?
 851 2013-09-03 15:47:45 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 852 2013-09-03 15:47:52 <Diablo-D3> michagogo: full? overwrites it with zeros
 853 2013-09-03 15:48:00 <pigeons> really, you can recover from writing zeros once, but not several times? how many times?
 854 2013-09-03 15:48:12 <Diablo-D3> pigeons: depends on the drive
 855 2013-09-03 15:48:19 debiantoruser has joined
 856 2013-09-03 15:48:19 wei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 857 2013-09-03 15:48:24 <Diablo-D3> its the urandom that fucks you over
 858 2013-09-03 15:48:49 <pigeons> oh i just use the java SecureRandom instead
 859 2013-09-03 15:48:52 <pigeons> ;)
 860 2013-09-03 15:48:52 <Diablo-D3> do that 3 times, and no one is recovering it, I dont care if the military standard is like 7 (which is bullshit anyhow, since they throw decomissioned drives into a furnace)
 861 2013-09-03 15:49:15 <_dr> heh
 862 2013-09-03 15:49:32 <_dr> talk about green it
 863 2013-09-03 15:50:24 wei_ has joined
 864 2013-09-03 15:50:31 <maaku> pigeons: magnetic writes on disk don't perfectly overlap
 865 2013-09-03 15:50:50 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, afaik nobody has ever recovered data from a driver after even a single pass on any modern drive (manufactured within the last say 30 years)
 866 2013-09-03 15:50:50 <maaku> and SSDs corrode differently based on their charge
 867 2013-09-03 15:51:24 <phantomcircuit> maaku, the principle issue with doing an overwrite is more that drives silently remap sectors they think are failing
 868 2013-09-03 15:51:28 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: of urandom? fbi claims they can do 3
 869 2013-09-03 15:51:34 <k9quaint> thats why I store all my sensitive information in /dev/null
 870 2013-09-03 15:51:38 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: zeros however do much less damage
 871 2013-09-03 15:51:41 <maaku> phantomcircuit: you can buy atomic-force data recovery for a few thousands dollars
 872 2013-09-03 15:51:44 <maaku> it's a commodity service
 873 2013-09-03 15:52:05 <Diablo-D3> now if you're on SSD and secure erased it?
 874 2013-09-03 15:52:05 <Diablo-D3> boned
 875 2013-09-03 15:52:10 <phantomcircuit> maaku, that's really not for overwritten data
 876 2013-09-03 15:52:21 <maaku> phantomcircuit: yes it is, and yes i have
 877 2013-09-03 15:52:23 <phantomcircuit> it's for where the controller/head crashed
 878 2013-09-03 15:52:41 <maaku> phantomcircuit: you can get atomic force recovery too
 879 2013-09-03 15:52:48 <maaku> they offer more than one service
 880 2013-09-03 15:53:06 <maaku> the only difference is how you filter the data
 881 2013-09-03 15:53:10 <cz3141> so... i guess i have a new day tading target :D
 882 2013-09-03 15:54:16 <cz3141> *trading
 883 2013-09-03 15:54:41 abrkn has joined
 884 2013-09-03 15:57:30 Heimdall has joined
 885 2013-09-03 15:58:13 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 886 2013-09-03 15:58:33 <phantomcircuit> maaku, securely erasing a specific file on an ssd is more or less impossible
 887 2013-09-03 15:58:41 Subo1977 has joined
 888 2013-09-03 15:59:26 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, i doubt the FBI can actually recover much of anything after even a single pass of random data
 889 2013-09-03 16:00:09 <phantomcircuit> im sure they have various means of finding copies of the files though
 890 2013-09-03 16:00:32 <pigeons> they can use http://getprsm.com/ to get the backups
 891 2013-09-03 16:00:33 <phantomcircuit> especially under windows where things like volume shadow copy are constantly silently copying things all over the place
 892 2013-09-03 16:01:44 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Had any time to think about https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2945 ?
 893 2013-09-03 16:02:50 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not really. it makes things cheaper for spammers to do 1:1 stuff; maybe it should use a difference?
 894 2013-09-03 16:02:57 GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
 895 2013-09-03 16:03:18 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: eg, you only get the input "costless" when there isn't a matching output
 896 2013-09-03 16:04:05 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: If you do that then you will incentivize people adding extra outputs when they can do so for free, as they can then redeem them later. I point this out.
 897 2013-09-03 16:04:33 <Luke-Jr> hmm
 898 2013-09-03 16:04:39 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: it won't make it cheaper for spammers to do 1:1 stuff, except in so far as that it effectiviely lowers the free priority threshold a bit.
 899 2013-09-03 16:04:55 <gmaxwell> And I considered doing that sensible just because of how much bitcoin has increased in value.
 900 2013-09-03 16:05:13 <gmaxwell> e.g. 1 BTC for 1 day costs a lot more now then it did a couple years ago.
 901 2013-09-03 16:05:16 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it doesn't affect the size used by fee-by-kB calc?
 902 2013-09-03 16:05:23 <gmaxwell> No, it doesn't.
 903 2013-09-03 16:05:41 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
 904 2013-09-03 16:05:50 <gmaxwell> Didn't do that simply because I'm still assuming miners are income-maximizing on those.
 905 2013-09-03 16:06:23 wei_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 906 2013-09-03 16:06:59 <gmaxwell> though there probably should be some tradeoff, like "I'm willing to forgo 0.01 BTC/block in order to optimize for priority rather than income" but then it goes deep down the path of non-unique solutions again.
 907 2013-09-03 16:07:16 wei_ has joined
 908 2013-09-03 16:08:49 <abrkn> gmaxwell: do you know how the json rpc handles sendmany { "1addr....": "0.00000001" }? javascript's JSON.stringify of the number 0.00000001 is "1e-8", which im not sure if bitcoind's json parser would handle
 909 2013-09-03 16:09:42 <gmaxwell> abrkn: we handle that.
 910 2013-09-03 16:09:46 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 911 2013-09-03 16:09:58 BTCOxygen has joined
 912 2013-09-03 16:10:12 <TD> jouke: the DNS seeds are broken. here are two
 913 2013-09-03 16:10:13 <gmaxwell> wait "0.00000001" ?
 914 2013-09-03 16:10:21 <TD> 199.26.85.40,54.243.211.176
 915 2013-09-03 16:10:51 <abrkn> gmaxwell: "0.00000001" (one satoshi, as a string)
 916 2013-09-03 16:11:02 <gmaxwell> abrkn: we handle { "1addr....": 0.00000001 }  and { "1addr....": 1e-8 } The quotes are right out.
 917 2013-09-03 16:11:27 iddo has quit (Changing host)
 918 2013-09-03 16:11:27 iddo has joined
 919 2013-09-03 16:11:31 <abrkn> gmaxwell: as im sure you know JS handles small numbers as floats
 920 2013-09-03 16:11:44 <abrkn> gmaxwell: not sure how small they need to be to lose accuracy
 921 2013-09-03 16:12:14 <Luke-Jr> restarted DNS seed
 922 2013-09-03 16:12:35 cypher has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 923 2013-09-03 16:12:50 <gmaxwell> abrkn: all bitcoin values are preserved in an implementation using doubles and normal conversion. But you could avoid your concern just by constructing the request manually.
 924 2013-09-03 16:13:13 <gmaxwell> abrkn: e.g. printing the whole thing, not just the value.
 925 2013-09-03 16:13:16 cypher has joined
 926 2013-09-03 16:13:22 <gmaxwell> abrkn: in any case, no you can't use a string there.
 927 2013-09-03 16:13:44 <abrkn> gmaxwell: ok, thanks for clarifying
 928 2013-09-03 16:15:09 <phantomcircuit> abrkn, if it's off it's going to be off by a trivially small amount
 929 2013-09-03 16:15:24 <phantomcircuit> the question is how much effort is it worth to make sure it's never off
 930 2013-09-03 16:16:39 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 931 2013-09-03 16:17:46 debiantoruser has joined
 932 2013-09-03 16:19:07 wei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 933 2013-09-03 16:19:09 <jouke> TD: It is running, but it is behind a NAT at the moment. I'll set up a reverse tunnel tomorrow (it will take some time to catch up anyway).
 934 2013-09-03 16:23:39 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 935 2013-09-03 16:23:49 cz3141 has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.2-final -- just do it.)
 936 2013-09-03 16:24:08 msvb-lab has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 937 2013-09-03 16:24:13 debiantoruser has joined
 938 2013-09-03 16:24:49 <TD> jouke: yay!
 939 2013-09-03 16:24:58 _ingsoc has joined
 940 2013-09-03 16:26:20 CheckDavid has joined
 941 2013-09-03 16:27:33 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 942 2013-09-03 16:27:41 Muis has joined
 943 2013-09-03 16:29:32 paraipan has joined
 944 2013-09-03 16:30:29 wei_ has joined
 945 2013-09-03 16:38:56 saivann has joined
 946 2013-09-03 16:39:41 reneg has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.10)
 947 2013-09-03 16:39:57 reneg has joined
 948 2013-09-03 16:40:55 <numismatics> no dice on pynode
 949 2013-09-03 16:41:10 <numismatics> any suggestions for script to compute UP_CHECKSIG?
 950 2013-09-03 16:41:26 magbo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 951 2013-09-03 16:46:42 MobGod has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 952 2013-09-03 16:48:05 saulimus has joined
 953 2013-09-03 16:49:17 tmsk has joined
 954 2013-09-03 16:49:46 AlexNagy has joined
 955 2013-09-03 16:49:46 AlexNagy has quit (Changing host)
 956 2013-09-03 16:49:46 AlexNagy has joined
 957 2013-09-03 16:50:07 MobGod has joined
 958 2013-09-03 16:53:10 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
 959 2013-09-03 16:53:25 tmsk_ has joined
 960 2013-09-03 16:53:38 tmsk has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 961 2013-09-03 16:54:31 magbo has joined
 962 2013-09-03 16:55:23 <maaku> numismatics: https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/bitcoin/scripteval.py#L368
 963 2013-09-03 16:55:30 <maaku> (that's part of pynode)
 964 2013-09-03 16:57:00 <numismatics> ty, i gues i'm just not smart enough to figure out what I'm trying to do
 965 2013-09-03 16:58:24 paybitcoin1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 966 2013-09-03 16:58:40 <jgarzik> numismatics, define "compute"
 967 2013-09-03 16:58:47 paybitcoin has joined
 968 2013-09-03 16:58:55 <jgarzik> numismatics, are you trying to execute a script, construct a script, or something else?
 969 2013-09-03 16:59:25 msvb-lab has joined
 970 2013-09-03 16:59:27 <michagogo> Has anyone here been seeding the bootstrap.dat torrent for more than a week or so?
 971 2013-09-03 16:59:30 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 972 2013-09-03 16:59:49 <jgarzik> michagogo, has it been more than a week since I updated it?
 973 2013-09-03 17:00:21 <michagogo> jgarzik: Just checked, it was on the 30th
 974 2013-09-03 17:00:35 <michagogo> Specifically, I'm looking for people still seeding the old versions
 975 2013-09-03 17:00:53 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 976 2013-09-03 17:01:06 <jgarzik> woo!  more pynode users appear.
 977 2013-09-03 17:01:12 * jgarzik looks at petertodd 
 978 2013-09-03 17:01:31 <numismatics> i want to know the hash of the output to be signed
 979 2013-09-03 17:02:04 <numismatics> so if I fed the script the r & s values to compute z
 980 2013-09-03 17:02:17 Application has joined
 981 2013-09-03 17:02:30 <jgarzik> numismatics, the hash of the output to be signed is specified as a transaction input, COutpoint
 982 2013-09-03 17:03:45 cads has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 983 2013-09-03 17:03:50 AndyOfiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 984 2013-09-03 17:04:19 gst has joined
 985 2013-09-03 17:06:17 <numismatics> i guess i'm confused as to how this guy computed the z values in http://www.nilsschneider.net/2013/01/28/recovering-bitcoin-private-keys.html
 986 2013-09-03 17:07:21 <numismatics> and i dont understand how to use pynode to accomplish said task
 987 2013-09-03 17:07:27 <gmaxwell> numismatics: If you rob fewer people you'll tend to have less of these problems.
 988 2013-09-03 17:07:44 <numismatics> :) i'm not going to rob anyone
 989 2013-09-03 17:08:03 <numismatics> i want to understand the underlying crypto function
 990 2013-09-03 17:08:18 <numismatics> clearly, i lack the knowledge to be dangerous =P
 991 2013-09-03 17:08:34 <gmaxwell> yea but you're working on it!
 992 2013-09-03 17:08:47 ticean has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 993 2013-09-03 17:08:59 <numismatics> hah :)
 994 2013-09-03 17:09:04 <gmaxwell> numismatics: signature validation has two inputs— the message being signed and the public key. You're looking for the message being signed there.
 995 2013-09-03 17:09:50 ralphtheninja has joined
 996 2013-09-03 17:10:16 <numismatics> then what's referred to as z will be part of the message being signed?
 997 2013-09-03 17:10:31 ralphtheninja has quit (Client Quit)
 998 2013-09-03 17:10:59 <gmaxwell> technically the hash of the data being signed.
 999 2013-09-03 17:13:18 ticean has joined
1000 2013-09-03 17:14:02 <numismatics> gotchya; and pynode lets me explore the underlying messages (unlike blockchain.info or blockexplorer?)
1001 2013-09-03 17:18:47 paybitcoin1 has joined
1002 2013-09-03 17:19:08 paybitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1003 2013-09-03 17:22:09 asuk has joined
1004 2013-09-03 17:24:22 <handle> pynode?
1005 2013-09-03 17:24:37 * handle looks it up
1006 2013-09-03 17:25:12 <handle> ooh, this is pretty neat
1007 2013-09-03 17:25:44 <handle> so is this just a reference bitcoin clienthalf- implementation written in python?
1008 2013-09-03 17:26:39 <handle> jgarzik: ^
1009 2013-09-03 17:26:53 <jgarzik> s/reference//
1010 2013-09-03 17:27:04 <handle> that works
1011 2013-09-03 17:27:05 <jgarzik> it's an implementation + library (python-bitcoinlib)
1012 2013-09-03 17:27:37 <handle> interesting
1013 2013-09-03 17:27:52 <handle> so I assume you're supposed to run your own bitcoind and connect this to it?
1014 2013-09-03 17:27:59 AlexNagy has left ("Leaving")
1015 2013-09-03 17:28:02 magbo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1016 2013-09-03 17:28:23 <phantomcircuit> handle, it's a library
1017 2013-09-03 17:28:28 <phantomcircuit> you do whatever you want with it
1018 2013-09-03 17:28:56 <handle> well yeah, certainly
1019 2013-09-03 17:29:05 <handle> but if it au
1020 2013-09-03 17:29:11 <handle> yeah, suppose you're right :P
1021 2013-09-03 17:32:26 <jgarzik> handle, for pynode, it is fully validating (and slow!), so you may connect it to any node.
1022 2013-09-03 17:32:41 <jgarzik> handle, python-bitcoinlib is a full library, not requiring any other software
1023 2013-09-03 17:34:06 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, now that RPC is a part of python-bitcoinlib, we need to figure out a good disposition for python-bitcoinrpc
1024 2013-09-03 17:35:13 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1025 2013-09-03 17:36:38 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: ?
1026 2013-09-03 17:36:51 <numismatics> anyone have a node I can connect to?
1027 2013-09-03 17:36:55 <numismatics> rather than my own =P
1028 2013-09-03 17:37:01 <jgarzik> numismatics, us2.exmulti.net or eu3.exmulti.net
1029 2013-09-03 17:37:12 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, to fix the eloipool problem
1030 2013-09-03 17:37:34 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: revert the regression? :P
1031 2013-09-03 17:37:41 <numismatics> credentials?
1032 2013-09-03 17:37:49 <jgarzik> numismatics, ?
1033 2013-09-03 17:37:49 <Luke-Jr> or merge the fix that guy made; it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing
1034 2013-09-03 17:37:59 <numismatics> i thought i needed RPCusername/pass
1035 2013-09-03 17:38:15 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, inside python-bitcoinlib, the utility of faking authserviceproxy is quite low
1036 2013-09-03 17:38:23 <jgarzik> versus python-bitcoinrpc
1037 2013-09-03 17:38:43 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: it's not related to faking ASP
1038 2013-09-03 17:38:44 <jgarzik> numismatics, P2P does not require credentials
1039 2013-09-03 17:39:08 <Luke-Jr> hmm, lemme try cooking up a real fix, 2 sec
1040 2013-09-03 17:39:19 <michagogo> Does addnode work with dns addresses?
1041 2013-09-03 17:40:03 Dyaheon- has quit ()
1042 2013-09-03 17:40:06 <michagogo> ...apparently it does.
1043 2013-09-03 17:40:09 Anduck has joined
1044 2013-09-03 17:40:09 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
1045 2013-09-03 17:40:09 Anduck has joined
1046 2013-09-03 17:40:34 <numismatics> forgive my ignorance, then what would my pynode config look like?
1047 2013-09-03 17:40:40 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1048 2013-09-03 17:42:12 debiantoruser has joined
1049 2013-09-03 17:43:48 TD has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1050 2013-09-03 17:46:37 <handle> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/blob/master/jgarzik-exmulti.asc do you have a stake in exmulti?
1051 2013-09-03 17:46:51 Gue______ has joined
1052 2013-09-03 17:49:15 gst has joined
1053 2013-09-03 17:49:20 <jgarzik> handle, 100% stake, yes
1054 2013-09-03 17:49:34 <jgarzik> numismatics, key=value
1055 2013-09-03 17:49:59 <handle> ah nice
1056 2013-09-03 17:56:09 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1057 2013-09-03 18:00:04 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: I'm gonna have to revert that patch.. my client keeps crashing -.-
1058 2013-09-03 18:03:11 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1059 2013-09-03 18:03:50 egis has joined
1060 2013-09-03 18:04:38 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1061 2013-09-03 18:05:15 daybyter has joined
1062 2013-09-03 18:05:35 AndyOfiesh has joined
1063 2013-09-03 18:06:09 santoscork has joined
1064 2013-09-03 18:07:17 DaQatz has joined
1065 2013-09-03 18:08:14 viperhr1 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1066 2013-09-03 18:08:32 viperhr1 has joined
1067 2013-09-03 18:08:40 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
1068 2013-09-03 18:09:01 ahmedbodi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1069 2013-09-03 18:11:12 ahmedbodi has joined
1070 2013-09-03 18:11:55 HaltingState has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1071 2013-09-03 18:15:07 owowo has joined
1072 2013-09-03 18:15:47 rdponticelli has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1073 2013-09-03 18:16:58 rdponticelli has joined
1074 2013-09-03 18:18:33 mappum has joined
1075 2013-09-03 18:18:56 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
1076 2013-09-03 18:22:31 Namworld has joined
1077 2013-09-03 18:23:34 imsaguy has joined
1078 2013-09-03 18:29:41 FabianB has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1079 2013-09-03 18:30:11 magbo has joined
1080 2013-09-03 18:30:12 FabianB has joined
1081 2013-09-03 18:32:13 asuk has joined
1082 2013-09-03 18:32:19 HaltingState has joined
1083 2013-09-03 18:33:57 digitalmagus2 has joined
1084 2013-09-03 18:34:31 Gue______ has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1085 2013-09-03 18:34:48 wei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1086 2013-09-03 18:35:22 altamic has joined
1087 2013-09-03 18:35:31 wei_ has joined
1088 2013-09-03 18:35:45 altamic has left ()
1089 2013-09-03 18:40:39 jgarzik has joined
1090 2013-09-03 18:40:49 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, thanks
1091 2013-09-03 18:40:54 jeewee has joined
1092 2013-09-03 18:41:00 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, now I need to see if that applies to python-bitcoinlib also
1093 2013-09-03 18:41:10 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, ideally, python-bitcoinrpc is entirely retired
1094 2013-09-03 18:42:45 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I don't see a reason for python-bitcoinlib for simple stuff
1095 2013-09-03 18:43:04 <Luke-Jr> sounds like it does a lot more than just RPC communications
1096 2013-09-03 18:45:01 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, yes.  If you need to create base58, build or parse or sign transactions or blocks or P2P messages, ...   the idea is that python-bitcoinlib will do it for you, with only openssl as a dep
1097 2013-09-03 18:45:28 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, most bitcoin-RPC apps need additional bitcoin lib code, besides just RPC.
1098 2013-09-03 18:45:29 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: right, my point is that if all someone wants to do is RPC, they don't want all that other stuff, or an additional dep
1099 2013-09-03 18:45:37 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: especially a GPL-incompatible dep >_<
1100 2013-09-03 18:46:09 AndyOfiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1101 2013-09-03 18:46:15 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, what does eloipool use for P2P?  its own code?
1102 2013-09-03 18:46:38 darknyan has quit (Excess Flood)
1103 2013-09-03 18:46:43 <jgarzik> P2P message parsing, etc.
1104 2013-09-03 18:47:03 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, gmaxwell, any final 0.8.4 blockers?
1105 2013-09-03 18:48:01 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: yes
1106 2013-09-03 18:48:22 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: huh?
1107 2013-09-03 18:48:26 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: as Eloipool is AGPL, it wouldn't work to use an OpenSSL-tied dep
1108 2013-09-03 18:48:30 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ?
1109 2013-09-03 18:48:44 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I have been scratching my head why 0.8.4 isn't shipped yet. That needs to get out.
1110 2013-09-03 18:48:56 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: thought you were commenting on 0.8.4 blockers.
1111 2013-09-03 18:49:32 darknyan has joined
1112 2013-09-03 18:49:37 <Luke-Jr> ah, no. just saying Eloipool has its own node code (which predates other Python node code..)
1113 2013-09-03 18:49:45 <abrkn> gmaxwell: im still struggling with this scentific notation. sending the amount 1e-8 gives me an error that i dont have enough in the wallet, which i assume mean its not getting parsed right by the json rpc. ideas?
1114 2013-09-03 18:49:58 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: you can't send amount 1e-8
1115 2013-09-03 18:50:31 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: ok, im struggling because javascript insist on expressing one satoshi as 1e-8
1116 2013-09-03 18:50:35 <gmaxwell> abrkn: outputs that small won't be relayed or mined by the network currently.
1117 2013-09-03 18:50:40 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: 1 satoshi is too small to send
1118 2013-09-03 18:50:44 <gmaxwell> abrkn: I think your problem is not what you think it is.
1119 2013-09-03 18:50:57 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: try sending 1 BTC
1120 2013-09-03 18:51:04 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: and do testing on testnet. that's what it's there for.
1121 2013-09-03 18:51:26 <abrkn> but when doing sendmany, isnt a fee added anyway?
1122 2013-09-03 18:51:59 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: you cannot send that amount, even with a fee
1123 2013-09-03 18:52:09 <abrkn> i see. what it the smallest i can send?
1124 2013-09-03 18:52:15 <Luke-Jr> something like 5000 satoshis I think
1125 2013-09-03 18:52:22 <Luke-Jr> but seriously. TESTNET
1126 2013-09-03 18:52:40 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1127 2013-09-03 18:53:59 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1128 2013-09-03 18:54:39 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
1129 2013-09-03 18:55:03 Thepok has joined
1130 2013-09-03 18:55:07 Application has joined
1131 2013-09-03 18:56:39 yubrew has joined
1132 2013-09-03 18:58:54 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
1133 2013-09-03 19:00:59 _________ has joined
1134 2013-09-03 19:01:37 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1135 2013-09-03 19:08:29 _________ has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1136 2013-09-03 19:08:33 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1137 2013-09-03 19:09:49 robocoin_ has joined
1138 2013-09-03 19:10:28 AndyOfiesh has joined
1139 2013-09-03 19:10:53 normanrichards has joined
1140 2013-09-03 19:10:55 TheLordOfTime has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1141 2013-09-03 19:11:13 TheLordOfTime has joined
1142 2013-09-03 19:12:00 robocoin_ has quit (Client Quit)
1143 2013-09-03 19:12:27 robocoin_ has joined
1144 2013-09-03 19:13:03 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1145 2013-09-03 19:13:47 saivann has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1146 2013-09-03 19:13:54 tmsk_ has quit (Quit: tmsk_)
1147 2013-09-03 19:14:02 brocktice has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1148 2013-09-03 19:14:11 ahmedbodi is now known as bitcoinExpress
1149 2013-09-03 19:14:31 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1150 2013-09-03 19:20:21 bitcoinExpress has left ()
1151 2013-09-03 19:22:39 owowo has joined
1152 2013-09-03 19:24:06 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: thanks for the heads up. how does blockchain.info send tiny transactions? i noticed they take quite a while to get included
1153 2013-09-03 19:26:01 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: if they do, I presume they have some private deals with irresponsible miners
1154 2013-09-03 19:26:48 <michagogo> (or just a node connection to a pool that does that)
1155 2013-09-03 19:27:14 <abrkn> what's a reasonable minimum to set for withdraws to not be considered spamming the network?
1156 2013-09-03 19:27:26 <michagogo> 5460 satoshis is the minimum to be relayed, IIRC
1157 2013-09-03 19:27:38 <michagogo> (though a bunch of people have it wrong and think it's 5430)
1158 2013-09-03 19:28:21 <michagogo> But remember, that's still tiny: ,,(calc [ticker --last] * 0.0000543)
1159 2013-09-03 19:28:22 <gribble> 0.007834404
1160 2013-09-03 19:28:31 <michagogo> less than a penny
1161 2013-09-03 19:29:12 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1162 2013-09-03 19:33:17 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: pools that do that are the irresponsible miners ;p
1163 2013-09-03 19:33:32 <michagogo> Yeah, but no need for "private deals"
1164 2013-09-03 19:33:42 <michagogo> (also, I thought eligius mined everything it sees?)
1165 2013-09-03 19:34:34 ticean has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1166 2013-09-03 19:35:05 ticean has joined
1167 2013-09-03 19:35:25 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: Eligius will take non-standard, but not spammy looking garbage, and generally requires transaction fees if it seems possibly spammy.
1168 2013-09-03 19:35:33 <michagogo> Ah, I see
1169 2013-09-03 19:35:53 <michagogo> I guess you made all kinds of algorithms for that?
1170 2013-09-03 19:36:00 <Luke-Jr> yeah
1171 2013-09-03 19:36:23 <Luke-Jr> it also looks for fees on dependent transactions to pay for the ones they need
1172 2013-09-03 19:36:43 <Luke-Jr> so a transaction might not get confirmed until Eligius sees it spent with fees
1173 2013-09-03 19:36:53 <michagogo> BTW, did I mention that a couple weeks ago I made a script that completely automates the gitian-build?
1174 2013-09-03 19:37:19 <michagogo> I double-click, type in the release number, and it will download, build, sign, and pullrequest
1175 2013-09-03 19:37:37 <michagogo> (I'm sure there's a better way, but I did the pull request with octokit and a ruby oneliner)
1176 2013-09-03 19:37:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa has had that for months :P
1177 2013-09-03 19:38:01 <michagogo> (oh, and add, commit and push)
1178 2013-09-03 19:38:14 <michagogo> Yeah, it's not that hard :-P
1179 2013-09-03 19:38:39 davex_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1180 2013-09-03 19:38:49 <michagogo> I think I made the basic script after a build or two that I did manually to ~understand what it was doing (treating gitian as a black box)
1181 2013-09-03 19:39:50 <michagogo> But I made it fully automated, with a prompt for the version number and the automated pullrequest, after 4rc2
1182 2013-09-03 19:42:02 wei_ has quit (Quit: wei_)
1183 2013-09-03 19:44:11 ShapeShifter499 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1184 2013-09-03 19:44:12 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1185 2013-09-03 19:47:53 outkzt has joined
1186 2013-09-03 19:49:18 Gue______ has joined
1187 2013-09-03 19:50:20 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1188 2013-09-03 20:03:00 ShapeShifter499 has joined
1189 2013-09-03 20:05:21 jtimon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1190 2013-09-03 20:05:54 <BlueMatt> sipa/others who are interested in block-tester's stuff: the code should be fairly readable at https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/browse/core/src/test/java/com/google/bitcoin/core/BitcoindComparisonTool.java but essentially the algorithm is to send a single-block inv, wait for bitcoind to fetch the block with a getdata then respond with the block, ping, and getheaders to make sure bitcoind has accepted/rejected the block
1191 2013-09-03 20:06:31 davex_ has joined
1192 2013-09-03 20:07:51 Krellan_ has joined
1193 2013-09-03 20:08:33 Krellan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1194 2013-09-03 20:08:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: can you make the tester rerun on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2945 ?
1195 2013-09-03 20:08:43 Krellan_ has joined
1196 2013-09-03 20:09:17 paracyst has joined
1197 2013-09-03 20:10:27 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: done
1198 2013-09-03 20:10:36 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: thanks!
1199 2013-09-03 20:11:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: so does block-tester thinggy just need to be able to respond to getheaders in addition to getblocks?
1200 2013-09-03 20:12:23 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: oh does it not respond to getheaders?  It needs to. Assuming sipa's code is right then that should be it.
1201 2013-09-03 20:12:39 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok, yea that shouldn't be hard
1202 2013-09-03 20:12:53 santoscork has quit (Quit: Quiet while I make like a cat)
1203 2013-09-03 20:13:08 <gmaxwell> headers first might also justify having some longer reorg tests.. e.g. chains where there is a long run of blocks with an invalid one in the middle.
1204 2013-09-03 20:13:17 Krellan__ has joined
1205 2013-09-03 20:13:28 <gmaxwell> To test the case where if follows a line of headers and must reorg off of it because there is an invalid block.
1206 2013-09-03 20:13:55 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: oh while you're here! the fork alert stuff seems to be causing a fair amount of false positives for people. :(
1207 2013-09-03 20:14:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: bug link?
1208 2013-09-03 20:14:46 <gmaxwell> There have been a number of forum posts and a couple people on IRC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286013.0
1209 2013-09-03 20:15:10 <gmaxwell> I think one case that is triggering it is if you're syncing, and then you get a new block, causing you to start pulling in the other direction and get a bunch of orphan blocks.
1210 2013-09-03 20:15:16 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1211 2013-09-03 20:24:18 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1212 2013-09-03 20:25:12 cyphase_ has quit (Quit: cyphase.com)
1213 2013-09-03 20:25:51 reneg has joined
1214 2013-09-03 20:27:53 cypher has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1215 2013-09-03 20:33:11 cyphase has joined
1216 2013-09-03 20:33:14 fant has joined
1217 2013-09-03 20:34:59 outkzt has quit ()
1218 2013-09-03 20:35:57 <michagogo> Cool, uploading ~200 kB/s bootstrap to the netherlands
1219 2013-09-03 20:38:46 cybermoron has joined
1220 2013-09-03 20:40:08 <michagogo> Are release tags done by gavin exclusively?
1221 2013-09-03 20:41:12 <gavinandresen> good morning everyone.  I'll tag 0.8.4rc2 as final and start gitian building this morning
1222 2013-09-03 20:41:46 * michagogo greets gavin with his morning beverage of choice
1223 2013-09-03 20:41:56 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, probably...you should totally write some so that it does that :)
1224 2013-09-03 20:42:03 cypher has joined
1225 2013-09-03 20:43:25 <gavinandresen>  * [new tag]         v0.8.4 -> v0.8.4
1226 2013-09-03 20:43:42 freewil has joined
1227 2013-09-03 20:44:17 * warren starting gitian build
1228 2013-09-03 20:44:49 <michagogo> Okay, it's quarter to midnight for me and I should get to sleep -- but I'll reboot into Ubuntu and build first.
1229 2013-09-03 20:44:54 <michagogo> Goodnight everyone.
1230 2013-09-03 20:45:03 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: excellent
1231 2013-09-03 20:45:25 patcon has joined
1232 2013-09-03 20:45:27 cybermoron has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2013-09-03 20:45:38 Gue______ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1234 2013-09-03 20:45:44 cybermoron has joined
1235 2013-09-03 20:46:23 Dyaheon has joined
1236 2013-09-03 20:46:26 <michagogo> Expect my PR in a few minutes :-)
1237 2013-09-03 20:46:28 michagogo has quit (Quit: Goodnight.)
1238 2013-09-03 20:46:33 <cfields> mm.. I think the chan was ignoring me before because I was unregistered. Can you guys hear me now?
1239 2013-09-03 20:46:49 o3u has joined
1240 2013-09-03 20:46:49 o3u has quit (Changing host)
1241 2013-09-03 20:46:49 o3u has joined
1242 2013-09-03 20:47:29 <Luke-Jr> cfields: yes
1243 2013-09-03 20:47:36 <cfields> thanks
1244 2013-09-03 20:47:45 * cfields <-- TheUni
1245 2013-09-03 20:47:54 <cfields> <cfields> warren: was there some bounty around for deterministic osx builds? or linux->osx builds?
1246 2013-09-03 20:47:54 <cfields> <cfields> i just got both :)
1247 2013-09-03 20:48:55 <Luke-Jr> hmmnet.cpp:1689: warning: dereferencing pointer ‘sockaddr.1335’ does break strict-aliasing rules
1248 2013-09-03 20:49:01 <Luke-Jr> hmm net.cpp*
1249 2013-09-03 20:49:21 <Luke-Jr> cfields: wait, really?
1250 2013-09-03 20:49:32 <warren> cfields: Luke-Jr mentioned 25 BTC was donated to him for that work, but it wasn't indicated how much of that would be allocated to whoever picks it up.  The Litecoin team will contribute some if Bitcoin people contribute.
1251 2013-09-03 20:49:48 AusBitBank has joined
1252 2013-09-03 20:49:56 <Luke-Jr> warren: will this development upset your friend? did he start on it?
1253 2013-09-03 20:50:11 <warren> Luke-Jr: I'll ask, I think he's too busy
1254 2013-09-03 20:51:12 Dyaheon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1255 2013-09-03 20:51:37 <cfields> Luke-Jr: yep, bitcoind verified working. Checking on tests/qt now
1256 2013-09-03 20:51:42 <warren> hmm, my 0.8.4 gitian build failed with: cp: cannot stat `/home/ubuntu/out/src/doc/README.md': No such file or directory
1257 2013-09-03 20:51:47 <Luke-Jr> cfields: IMO deterministic OS X builds are good enough to say "too bad Windows folks" XD
1258 2013-09-03 20:51:52 da2ce7 has joined
1259 2013-09-03 20:52:06 COGSMITH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1260 2013-09-03 20:52:11 <cfields> hmm? win32 are deterministic too..?
1261 2013-09-03 20:52:22 OPrime has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1262 2013-09-03 20:52:36 <warren> cfields: yes
1263 2013-09-03 20:52:48 <Luke-Jr> cfields: I mean people trying to build on Windows ;p
1264 2013-09-03 20:52:51 COGSMITH has joined
1265 2013-09-03 20:52:54 <Luke-Jr> aka Diapolo and nobody else
1266 2013-09-03 20:53:05 <cfields> oh, heh
1267 2013-09-03 20:53:54 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1268 2013-09-03 20:54:22 <warren> supposedly the virtualbox gitian works, so it would be possible for windows users to do gitian builds
1269 2013-09-03 20:54:38 <warren> would require cygwin and porting the entire debian stack to somehow work there...
1270 2013-09-03 20:56:29 Dyaheon has joined
1271 2013-09-03 20:56:48 michagogo has joined
1272 2013-09-03 20:57:05 <Luke-Jr> warren: yes, but Diapolo wants to just click Compile on Qt Creator :p
1273 2013-09-03 20:57:11 <michagogo> What's this error I'm getting, something about sha256sum and no such file or directory?
1274 2013-09-03 20:58:12 <warren> my gitian builds are failing
1275 2013-09-03 20:58:23 reneg has joined
1276 2013-09-03 20:58:25 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hmm, well Ill see if I can get block-tester to respond to getheaders properly, but I may not have time to touch the fork notification stuff for a while yet
1277 2013-09-03 20:58:34 * BlueMatt -> out
1278 2013-09-03 20:58:40 <michagogo> I think it had the string "protobuf" in there somewhere?
1279 2013-09-03 20:59:51 <cfields> warren: bitcoind seems to work fine, but the tests don't fare too well
1280 2013-09-03 21:00:44 <michagogo> "sha256sum: protobuf-2.5.0.tar.bz2: No such file or directory"
1281 2013-09-03 21:01:34 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: your script seems to not work right :p
1282 2013-09-03 21:01:36 <michagogo> and now, inputs/protobuf-2.5.0.tar.bz2: No such file or directory
1283 2013-09-03 21:01:36 <michagogo> ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run copy-to-target  inputs/protobuf-2.5.0.tar.bz2 build/ (RuntimeError)
1284 2013-09-03 21:01:37 fant has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1285 2013-09-03 21:01:48 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: What changed since last time I used it? o_O
1286 2013-09-03 21:01:50 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1287 2013-09-03 21:01:53 fant has joined
1288 2013-09-03 21:02:00 <michagogo> I don't think I've needed protobuf in the past
1289 2013-09-03 21:02:18 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: Payment protocol was merged.
1290 2013-09-03 21:02:26 <Luke-Jr> wait
1291 2013-09-03 21:02:30 <michagogo> Oh, wait -- I know
1292 2013-09-03 21:02:31 <Luke-Jr> why are you trying to build master? O.o
1293 2013-09-03 21:02:39 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1294 2013-09-03 21:02:43 <michagogo> The script doesn't git checkout v${VERSION}
1295 2013-09-03 21:02:47 <michagogo> I'll make it do that now
1296 2013-09-03 21:03:01 <warren> cfields: the alert tests?
1297 2013-09-03 21:03:08 * Luke-Jr stabs git for deleting his gitian signature -.-
1298 2013-09-03 21:03:16 <cfields> yes. you know something?
1299 2013-09-03 21:03:33 <warren> I know something.
1300 2013-09-03 21:03:49 <cfields> heh. care to share?
1301 2013-09-03 21:04:24 darkee has joined
1302 2013-09-03 21:05:04 <cfields> oh, i think i see
1303 2013-09-03 21:05:47 <cfields> yep, there we go:
1304 2013-09-03 21:05:48 <cfields> *** No errors detected
1305 2013-09-03 21:05:54 <warren> what was the problem?
1306 2013-09-03 21:05:55 <michagogo> Can bash be made to print each command as it executes it?
1307 2013-09-03 21:05:57 bmcgee has joined
1308 2013-09-03 21:06:02 cypher has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1309 2013-09-03 21:06:04 <warren> cfields: hard coded version numbers?
1310 2013-09-03 21:06:31 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: set -x
1311 2013-09-03 21:06:32 <cfields> warren: the test is rather dumb.. it assumes it's being run from <src>/src/test
1312 2013-09-03 21:06:49 cypher has joined
1313 2013-09-03 21:06:57 <Luke-Jr> cfields: what test? I run test_bitcoin from ../.. all the time
1314 2013-09-03 21:07:22 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: can I specify it within the script itself?
1315 2013-09-03 21:07:39 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: specify what?
1316 2013-09-03 21:07:51 <michagogo> that it print the commands as it executes
1317 2013-09-03 21:08:11 <cfields> Luke-Jr: yes, but it's hard-coded your run-path from your build machine
1318 2013-09-03 21:08:20 <cfields> i built one one machine and ran on another, with different paths
1319 2013-09-03 21:08:27 <michagogo> ...wait, what
1320 2013-09-03 21:08:28 <michagogo> brb
1321 2013-09-03 21:08:44 <michagogo> Oh, that was me typoing
1322 2013-09-03 21:09:01 <michagogo> (answering 0.8.3 to the "what version?" prompt)
1323 2013-09-03 21:09:09 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: it's a command, so yes
1324 2013-09-03 21:09:13 <Luke-Jr> > set -x
1325 2013-09-03 21:09:14 <warren> nobody else has gitian linux failing?
1326 2013-09-03 21:09:21 <michagogo> Oh, literally "set -x"?
1327 2013-09-03 21:09:22 <Luke-Jr> warren: nope, worked fine here
1328 2013-09-03 21:09:26 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: yep
1329 2013-09-03 21:09:28 <michagogo> k
1330 2013-09-03 21:10:48 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1331 2013-09-03 21:10:53 <michagogo> BTW, should there not have been a commit that marked 0.8.4 as final?
1332 2013-09-03 21:11:05 <warren> gitian win32 just worked
1333 2013-09-03 21:12:07 <warren> trying linux again
1334 2013-09-03 21:12:15 <michagogo> Okay, the prebuild stuff worked
1335 2013-09-03 21:12:21 <michagogo> It;s linuxing now
1336 2013-09-03 21:13:11 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1337 2013-09-03 21:13:43 reneg has joined
1338 2013-09-03 21:14:02 Krellan_ has joined
1339 2013-09-03 21:14:16 cybermoron has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1340 2013-09-03 21:14:31 cybermoron has joined
1341 2013-09-03 21:16:01 <michagogo> Looks like lucid i386 built
1342 2013-09-03 21:16:08 <michagogo> amd64 next
1343 2013-09-03 21:16:12 Krellan__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1344 2013-09-03 21:16:30 <warren> ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run on-target setarch i386 bash -x < var/build-script > var/build.log 2>&1 (RuntimeError)
1345 2013-09-03 21:16:56 <warren> + cp /home/ubuntu/out/src/doc/README.md /home/ubuntu/out
1346 2013-09-03 21:16:56 <warren> cp: cannot stat `/home/ubuntu/out/src/doc/README.md': No such file or directory
1347 2013-09-03 21:17:35 knightz has joined
1348 2013-09-03 21:18:40 <warren> wiped inputs/bitcoin/ and trying again
1349 2013-09-03 21:21:12 cypher has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1350 2013-09-03 21:21:13 gst has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1351 2013-09-03 21:21:41 gst has joined
1352 2013-09-03 21:21:44 <warren> oh, my mistake
1353 2013-09-03 21:21:52 cypher has joined
1354 2013-09-03 21:22:00 <michagogo> Okay, linux is built and signed -- win32 next
1355 2013-09-03 21:22:13 <michagogo> (and it didn't fail, as far as I can tell)
1356 2013-09-03 21:23:22 <michagogo> warren: What was wrong?
1357 2013-09-03 21:25:04 cybermoron has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1358 2013-09-03 21:25:35 <warren> michagogo: not paying attention
1359 2013-09-03 21:25:42 <michagogo> To what? :-P
1360 2013-09-03 21:26:13 cads has joined
1361 2013-09-03 21:29:33 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1362 2013-09-03 21:29:40 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1363 2013-09-03 21:30:01 <cfields> Luke-Jr / warren: test_bitcoin-qt passed as well, and bitcoin-qt up and running on my macbook, all built from linux
1364 2013-09-03 21:30:15 <cfields> when you guys get done with gitian, please let me know if/how you think i should procede
1365 2013-09-03 21:30:28 <Luke-Jr> cfields: someone should test on 10.5
1366 2013-09-03 21:30:43 <Luke-Jr> (my gitian is finished already)
1367 2013-09-03 21:30:50 <michagogo> My gitian is done
1368 2013-09-03 21:31:10 <michagogo> However, one little kink in the auto-pullrequest part...
1369 2013-09-03 21:31:22 <cfields> Luke-Jr: this is independent of the autotools stuff, i'm just playing with the linux->osx cross idea right now
1370 2013-09-03 21:31:22 <michagogo> I forgot to `gem install octokit` :-P
1371 2013-09-03 21:31:39 saivann has joined
1372 2013-09-03 21:31:48 <Luke-Jr> cfields: oh really? so we could do gitian builds of 0.8.4 today? :D
1373 2013-09-03 21:32:16 <cfields> Luke-Jr: heh, no. it does _depend_ on my autotools work :)
1374 2013-09-03 21:33:42 <michagogo> Okay, the PR *should* be on github now
1375 2013-09-03 21:33:59 jtimon has joined
1376 2013-09-03 21:34:02 <michagogo> It worked! \o/
1377 2013-09-03 21:35:08 Dyaheon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1378 2013-09-03 21:36:49 handle_ has joined
1379 2013-09-03 21:38:01 <michagogo> And that's a match.
1380 2013-09-03 21:38:09 handle has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1381 2013-09-03 21:38:13 <michagogo> Okay, goodnight for real this time :-P
1382 2013-09-03 21:38:15 michagogo has quit (Quit: Client Quit)
1383 2013-09-03 21:38:25 egis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1384 2013-09-03 21:39:34 Dyaheon has joined
1385 2013-09-03 21:41:08 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1386 2013-09-03 21:44:42 Guest__ has joined
1387 2013-09-03 21:51:17 Darwerft has joined
1388 2013-09-03 21:58:12 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1389 2013-09-03 21:58:41 Darwerft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1390 2013-09-03 21:59:58 reneg has joined
1391 2013-09-03 22:03:28 <Luke-Jr> gpg: Signature made Tue 03 Sep 2013 21:20:38 UTC using RSA key ID 628ECF0C
1392 2013-09-03 22:03:29 <Luke-Jr> gpg: Good signature from "Michagogo <michagogo@server.fake>"
1393 2013-09-03 22:03:35 <Luke-Jr> gpg: Signature made Tue 03 Sep 2013 21:40:22 UTC using RSA key ID 347DC10D
1394 2013-09-03 22:03:36 <Luke-Jr> gpg: Good signature from "Warren Togami (2013) <wtogami@gmail.com>"
1395 2013-09-03 22:03:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: no proof that I actually built it. =P
1396 2013-09-03 22:04:07 <warren> should be a blind submission process
1397 2013-09-03 22:04:16 <Luke-Jr> warren: I have ways to confirm you did ;)
1398 2013-09-03 22:04:44 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1399 2013-09-03 22:04:51 Guest__ has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1400 2013-09-03 22:04:54 <Luke-Jr> the question is whether those keys are in fact yours
1401 2013-09-03 22:05:00 <Luke-Jr> and what's up with server.fake
1402 2013-09-03 22:05:15 <warren> perhaps he spent $180k to buy the .fake TLD
1403 2013-09-03 22:05:19 <Luke-Jr> :p
1404 2013-09-03 22:05:34 <Luke-Jr> or started a fakenamecoin alt
1405 2013-09-03 22:05:47 <warren> Luke-Jr: would be just as legit as most of the alts
1406 2013-09-03 22:06:51 <gmaxwell> hehe. ".scam" TLD, and use it to map names to stuff that doesn't want you calling it a scam.
1407 2013-09-03 22:08:27 cyphase has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1408 2013-09-03 22:08:55 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1409 2013-09-03 22:11:00 JyZyXEL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1410 2013-09-03 22:11:54 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1411 2013-09-03 22:12:43 guruvan has joined
1412 2013-09-03 22:15:44 reneg has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
1413 2013-09-03 22:15:58 reneg has joined
1414 2013-09-03 22:18:35 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1415 2013-09-03 22:20:09 <cfields> warren: ok, i've got to drop this for a while and get some $dayjob work done. mind shooting me some info on what's desired for osx when you get a chance?
1416 2013-09-03 22:20:15 <cfields> gavinandresen: ping on the above as well
1417 2013-09-03 22:20:45 <warren> cfields: i've been too busy myself to keep up with it
1418 2013-09-03 22:21:36 <cfields> gavinandresen: i have osx binaries building from linux, and verified working. Curious as to whether there's interest in doing official builds/releases that way in order to have them be deterministic
1419 2013-09-03 22:22:28 <warren> how close are you to making it deterministic?
1420 2013-09-03 22:23:28 <cfields> the build itself should be deterministic already. the remaining work would be to make deterministic deps, and figuring out packaging from the linux side
1421 2013-09-03 22:24:10 <gmaxwell> That would reduce some of the build single-threading through gavin, and also make it easier to do build/test automation for OSX... so it sounds pretty good for me.
1422 2013-09-03 22:24:19 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1423 2013-09-03 22:24:21 asuk has quit ()
1424 2013-09-03 22:25:07 Application has joined
1425 2013-09-03 22:25:55 johnsoft has joined
1426 2013-09-03 22:26:38 AlexNagy has joined
1427 2013-09-03 22:26:44 <warren> cfields: what toolchain is needed?
1428 2013-09-03 22:26:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: actually i think it should just work; if there are blocks inv'd they are fetched and processed
1429 2013-09-03 22:27:15 <cfields> warren: hacks and pieces from a few places. It'd take some time to put together a documented/automated procedure
1430 2013-09-03 22:27:31 <gmaxwell> cfields: is it building with GCC or clang?
1431 2013-09-03 22:27:48 <cfields> gmaxwell: either should work. current is gcc
1432 2013-09-03 22:28:57 <gmaxwell> OK. I've had some amount of discomfort in that we distribute a clang binary but all of our CI testing infrastructure runs on GCC only.
1433 2013-09-03 22:29:45 <cfields> why is the release binary clang? I thought it was built from 10.6 ?
1434 2013-09-03 22:30:09 <cfields> (and yes, I agree lots. debug/release should be exactly the same minus... debug info)
1435 2013-09-03 22:30:37 <Luke-Jr> I thought we used GCC for 10.5 compat?
1436 2013-09-03 22:30:49 <gmaxwell> Maybe I'm incorrect. I thought the release OSX binaries were build with clang/xcode.
1437 2013-09-03 22:31:09 <Luke-Jr> cfields: I've taken to releasing binaries with debug info too, since crash reports tend to be useless otherwise :/
1438 2013-09-03 22:31:17 <cfields> what Luke-Jr said, afaik
1439 2013-09-03 22:31:20 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: AFAIK Xcode uses GCC for 10.5 targets
1440 2013-09-03 22:31:21 <cfields> gmaxwell: https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commit/dc3f9169eef5b499b94381e31877d7a784b7cddd
1441 2013-09-03 22:31:35 <cfields> Luke-Jr: why not just do split builds?
1442 2013-09-03 22:31:51 <cfields> Luke-Jr: or even... the builds are deterministic ffs ;). Just rebuild your own debug symbols :)
1443 2013-09-03 22:32:22 <gmaxwell> cfields: because the crash reports from users tend to be useless.
1444 2013-09-03 22:33:25 <cfields> gmaxwell: i don't understand. why not combine core dumps with generated debug symbols?
1445 2013-09-03 22:33:30 theorb has joined
1446 2013-09-03 22:33:32 <gmaxwell> as in the user doesn't record any addresses, they just will manage to give you some symbols if the crash message (e.g. in windows) gives them to them.
1447 2013-09-03 22:33:33 <cfields> or you mean crash report == textual backtrace?
1448 2013-09-03 22:33:42 <Zoop_> http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/
1449 2013-09-03 22:33:47 <Zoop_> you guys saw this?
1450 2013-09-03 22:33:51 <Zoop_> super interesting
1451 2013-09-03 22:33:53 <gmaxwell> cfields: because the user _never_ provides a core dumb, plus none of us should want them.
1452 2013-09-03 22:34:06 <gmaxwell> Zoop_: I don't think it's interesting. ::shrugs::
1453 2013-09-03 22:34:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: I got further when I enabled getheaders responses, but it looks like your branch breaks when-to-reorg selection
1454 2013-09-03 22:34:25 <Diablo-D3> *dump
1455 2013-09-03 22:34:26 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1456 2013-09-03 22:34:35 <Zoop_> gmaxwell why?!
1457 2013-09-03 22:34:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: it appears to reorg when a new block comes in that is the same height as current best?
1458 2013-09-03 22:34:41 <cfields> gmaxwell: mm, i'll concede the dump point
1459 2013-09-03 22:34:43 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
1460 2013-09-03 22:34:46 <Diablo-D3> core dumps are useless anyhow without a -ggdb3'ed binary
1461 2013-09-03 22:35:08 <gmaxwell> cfields: (we don't want them because they may have private keys in them)
1462 2013-09-03 22:35:09 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, tnat shouldn't happen afaik
1463 2013-09-03 22:35:19 <cfields> Diablo-D3: not when combined with split debug symbols
1464 2013-09-03 22:35:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: thanks, i'll check the code to be sure
1465 2013-09-03 22:35:25 <cfields> gmaxwell: yea, understood after rethinking
1466 2013-09-03 22:35:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: are you setup to run the tester locally?
1467 2013-09-03 22:35:47 <cfields> Diablo-D3: see how ubuntu packages separate -dbg packages for that reason
1468 2013-09-03 22:35:54 <Diablo-D3> cfields: yes but
1469 2013-09-03 22:36:02 <Diablo-D3> you need to have them installed BEFORE making the dump
1470 2013-09-03 22:36:06 <gmaxwell> 15:33 < BlueMatt> sipa: it appears to reorg when a new block comes in that is the same height as current best?
1471 2013-09-03 22:36:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: nope, not now :)
1472 2013-09-03 22:36:15 <gmaxwell> oops. Did sipa reintroduce that bug? :P
1473 2013-09-03 22:36:44 <sipa> i rewrote that code quite seriously, it may have reintroduced such a bug
1474 2013-09-03 22:37:44 <cfields> Diablo-D3: well, I respectfully disagree
1475 2013-09-03 22:37:50 <cfields> but, this discussion has veered off course
1476 2013-09-03 22:38:24 <gmaxwell> cfields: usually best to not argue with D3. It's like wrestling with a pig.
1477 2013-09-03 22:38:28 <Diablo-D3> cfields: well, last time I tried using a dump, it didnt work right until I made it again after getting debug symbols
1478 2013-09-03 22:38:34 <Luke-Jr> cfields: I was mainly talking about WINDOWS
1479 2013-09-03 22:38:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: hey now, Ive lost quite a lot of weight
1480 2013-09-03 22:38:42 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: whats wrong with wrestling with a pig?
1481 2013-09-03 22:39:00 HaltingState has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1482 2013-09-03 22:39:02 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: you both get muddy but the pig likes it.
1483 2013-09-03 22:39:04 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: lost weight yes, showered this year no
1484 2013-09-03 22:39:07 <cfields> heh
1485 2013-09-03 22:39:18 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: lol
1486 2013-09-03 22:39:21 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: dude, I showered this morning, had to get the stink of your mom off my dick
1487 2013-09-03 22:39:37 sserrano44 has joined
1488 2013-09-03 22:39:37 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: if you would stop digging her up to have sex with her, this wouldn't happen
1489 2013-09-03 22:39:44 <gmaxwell> Kids...
1490 2013-09-03 22:39:53 <gmaxwell> preschool talk in some other channel please.
1491 2013-09-03 22:39:58 Krellan_ has joined
1492 2013-09-03 22:40:21 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: your mom is so fat, she won't fit in other channels
1493 2013-09-03 22:40:22 <TheLordOfTime> k9quaint:  Diablo-D3: that means you two.
1494 2013-09-03 22:40:24 <k9quaint> ;)
1495 2013-09-03 22:40:30 <Luke-Jr> your momma was a snowblower!
1496 2013-09-03 22:40:37 * Luke-Jr intentionally leaves out the nick
1497 2013-09-03 22:40:49 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr:  smart thinking... :P
1498 2013-09-03 22:40:50 <TheLordOfTime> still...
1499 2013-09-03 22:40:57 * TheLordOfTime points at gmaxwell wearing the op hat
1500 2013-09-03 22:41:01 <TheLordOfTime> i'd listen :p;
1501 2013-09-03 22:41:04 <TheLordOfTime> :P *
1502 2013-09-03 22:41:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: if possible, test using this branch: https://code.google.com/r/bluemattme-bitcoinj/source/list?name=blocktester
1503 2013-09-03 22:41:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: will have to wait two weeks
1504 2013-09-03 22:41:53 Guest__ has joined
1505 2013-09-03 22:42:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: Im in no rush
1506 2013-09-03 22:42:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: but there may be some actual semantic change... it will always stay on the best headers chain it knows about
1507 2013-09-03 22:42:34 <cfields> BlueMatt: have you seen my changes to integrate the tests into the tree yet, by any chance?
1508 2013-09-03 22:42:48 normanrichards has quit ()
1509 2013-09-03 22:42:50 <BlueMatt> cfields: hmm? link?
1510 2013-09-03 22:43:04 <cfields> (I pinged earlier, but I think freenode ate my ping cause I wasn't registered yet. ignore if so)
1511 2013-09-03 22:43:18 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I'm in a rush, we really ought to get this code merged soonish! :P
1512 2013-09-03 22:43:36 <cfields> BlueMatt: last 3 commits in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2943
1513 2013-09-03 22:43:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: Uh. You mean best not-invalid headers chain, right?
1514 2013-09-03 22:43:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: but i'll need to see the actual scenario to think about what it will do
1515 2013-09-03 22:43:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: of course
1516 2013-09-03 22:43:57 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: so test it and fix it?
1517 2013-09-03 22:44:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: this would require me actually building it.
1518 2013-09-03 22:44:20 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, have fun with that one...
1519 2013-09-03 22:45:01 <gmaxwell> I seem to recall getting pissed at some crazy java build stuff previously.
1520 2013-09-03 22:45:02 <BlueMatt> cfields: ahh, yes, the autotools stuff
1521 2013-09-03 22:45:13 <BlueMatt> cfields: I did see the ping on github, but havent had a chance to look at it
1522 2013-09-03 22:45:25 berndj has joined
1523 2013-09-03 22:45:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: not surprising, though if you drop the project in intellij it does a pretty good job of figuring it out
1524 2013-09-03 22:45:34 <cfields> ok
1525 2013-09-03 22:45:36 <BlueMatt> just dont use eclipse
1526 2013-09-03 22:46:06 <cfields> BlueMatt: the goal is to get them in-tree, so that in situations like this, gmaxwell could push a fix and have the bot reflect it instantly
1527 2013-09-03 22:46:14 <BlueMatt> cfields: I would point you to https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/test-scripts but I think that is out-of-sync with whats running on the server by quite a bit
1528 2013-09-03 22:46:37 <BlueMatt> cfields: I think the last person to touch it was gavinandresen, so Id suggest bugging him :p
1529 2013-09-03 22:46:39 <cfields> BlueMatt: yes, those commits replace your test scripts
1530 2013-09-03 22:46:58 <cfields> i used them for porting
1531 2013-09-03 22:48:23 <BlueMatt> cfields: ahh you committed the jar and such...hmm, well Im pretty sure the version on that git repo is broken (bug that was fixed long ago but never got rebuilt) so unless you used the versions at jenkins.bluematt.me/pull-tester/files it may generate false-negatives (have you run the scripts?)
1532 2013-09-03 22:48:29 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1533 2013-09-03 22:48:51 <sipa> wait, you're not putting that jar in bitcoin's repo, are you?
1534 2013-09-03 22:49:08 wereHamster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1535 2013-09-03 22:49:10 <cfields> sipa: my hope was to have it built from source
1536 2013-09-03 22:49:14 <BlueMatt> yes, he did, which I would recommend not doing
1537 2013-09-03 22:49:18 <BlueMatt> cfields: lol, have fun with that
1538 2013-09-03 22:49:29 <cfields> otherwise, yes, it needs to live in the repo. otherwise this sync problem occurs
1539 2013-09-03 22:49:35 <sipa> cfields: i don't think bitcoinj code belongs in our repository
1540 2013-09-03 22:50:08 AlexNagy has left ("Leaving")
1541 2013-09-03 22:50:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: is there even a way to build it without using some GUI IDE enviroment? :(
1542 2013-09-03 22:51:43 HaltingState has joined
1543 2013-09-03 22:53:33 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: apparently there is some maven magic that will do it, but the only way Ive ever gotten it to build properly is to use eclipse (which is terrible at importing bitcoinj, I dont think I could do it again if I had to, and intellij is broken when it comes to jar-generation)
1544 2013-09-03 22:54:16 <sipa> cfields: i'm quite fine with having blocktester as an external tool that needs to exist when testing
1545 2013-09-03 22:55:54 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1546 2013-09-03 22:57:10 normanrichards has joined
1547 2013-09-03 22:58:45 <cfields> sipa: i don't really understand, as that means that everyone can get different test results
1548 2013-09-03 22:59:00 <cfields> so i would strongly disagree. but seems i'm in the minority
1549 2013-09-03 22:59:22 <sipa> how do you mean?
1550 2013-09-03 22:59:27 AusBitBank has joined
1551 2013-09-03 22:59:32 <sipa> if people get different results, there's abug
1552 2013-09-03 23:00:23 <cfields> sipa: take release for example. Say .8.4 makes a change that's incompable with the test for some reason, because it is intended for use on master
1553 2013-09-03 23:00:39 <cfields> that means that master/release branches can't be tested similarly, they have to use a different mechanism
1554 2013-09-03 23:00:43 <sipa> the pulltester tests network rules
1555 2013-09-03 23:00:57 <sipa> any change that affects those is a hard fork
1556 2013-09-03 23:01:13 <cfields> whereas if they were in-tree, the tests would be bound to the branch they're in
1557 2013-09-03 23:01:25 <sipa> i don't want .jar filea in our repo
1558 2013-09-03 23:01:28 <Luke-Jr> cfields: which can be a bad thing too
1559 2013-09-03 23:01:33 awishformore has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1560 2013-09-03 23:01:34 HaltingState has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1561 2013-09-03 23:01:42 <Luke-Jr> cfields: sometimes tests have bugs, you don't want old releases using buggy tests
1562 2013-09-03 23:01:44 <sipa> and building from source sounds next to impossible to do automatically
1563 2013-09-03 23:02:03 <cfields> Luke-Jr: then backport the tests to the release branch as well...
1564 2013-09-03 23:02:09 <sipa> hell, i'd rather have a .jar than a full bitcoinj clone in our repo
1565 2013-09-03 23:02:13 <Luke-Jr> cfields: shouldn't have to.
1566 2013-09-03 23:02:13 <cfields> like i said, i'm clearly in the minority here. i'll drop it.
1567 2013-09-03 23:02:23 <Luke-Jr> the same tests should work on all branches and even different clients
1568 2013-09-03 23:02:27 ThomasV has joined
1569 2013-09-03 23:02:47 <sipa> if there are hard forks, the pulltester should maybe get some commandlime flag to set which rulea to test
1570 2013-09-03 23:03:00 <sipa> but apart from that, there should not be any incompatibilities
1571 2013-09-03 23:03:53 <cfields> ok
1572 2013-09-03 23:04:23 <Luke-Jr> older branches need to be correct with the current rules too
1573 2013-09-03 23:04:25 HaltingState has joined
1574 2013-09-03 23:04:25 HaltingState has quit (Changing host)
1575 2013-09-03 23:04:25 HaltingState has joined
1576 2013-09-03 23:04:30 <sipa> yes
1577 2013-09-03 23:04:44 <sipa> every combination of bitxoind and pulltester versions should work
1578 2013-09-03 23:04:48 <sipa> *coin
1579 2013-09-03 23:04:54 Krellan_ has joined
1580 2013-09-03 23:06:00 <sipa> but even if there is a requirement of having that jar file somewhere preinstlled, being able to run all tests automatically is a nice improvement
1581 2013-09-03 23:08:40 * sipa afk
1582 2013-09-03 23:14:37 <cfields> well without having it in-repo, the tests become much harder to automate
1583 2013-09-03 23:18:23 <gmaxwell> cfields: It's a system test. It requires starting up a seperate service. It's not unreasonable to expect it to be out of tree— especially since you can't even build it without using some gui ide it seems.
1584 2013-09-03 23:20:04 <cfields> gmaxwell: i see it a bit differently. in-tree=everyone who manages to build can test it with 'make check'. Out of tree= few will bother, and just rely on the pull-tester as before
1585 2013-09-03 23:20:20 Krellan__ has joined
1586 2013-09-03 23:20:29 reneg_ has joined
1587 2013-09-03 23:21:29 <gmaxwell> cfields: so you propose building bitcoin will require downloading an extra 100mb of java and dependencies, along with a java ide you must interact with?
1588 2013-09-03 23:21:53 oPen_syLar has joined
1589 2013-09-03 23:22:06 <cfields> gmaxwell: no, in learning of all that mess, my proposal changed to just shoving the binary (er.. bytecode?) in-tree
1590 2013-09-03 23:22:13 <Luke-Jr> cfields must be offering to do an automake port using GCJ
1591 2013-09-03 23:22:22 <Luke-Jr> aww
1592 2013-09-03 23:22:26 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1593 2013-09-03 23:22:52 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1594 2013-09-03 23:23:40 <gmaxwell> /msg luke-jr awesome, so how long until the wallet stealing java bytecode is done?
1595 2013-09-03 23:23:41 <cfields> gmaxwell: by doing that, every dev can get the *exact* same output as pull-tester by running 'make check'
1596 2013-09-03 23:23:53 freewil has joined
1597 2013-09-03 23:24:20 <cfields> heh
1598 2013-09-03 23:24:24 <Luke-Jr> cfields: exact same output beign an empty wallet! :P
1599 2013-09-03 23:25:24 <gmaxwell> I'm pretty sure checking in opaque binary programs (especially hard to reproduce ones!) in the /source/ repository is not really up for debate.
1600 2013-09-03 23:26:53 <cfields> well it's in contrib :p
1601 2013-09-03 23:26:57 <cfields> but point taken
1602 2013-09-03 23:27:04 <cfields> reworking it now
1603 2013-09-03 23:27:25 c0rw1n has joined
1604 2013-09-03 23:28:53 <gmaxwell> Really what the pulltester does could be converted into static tests (they're currently dynamic, but only so that the too-far-future blocks can be near the current time)
1605 2013-09-03 23:29:15 <gmaxwell> and then they could just be data and a really thin shim to play them and check results.
1606 2013-09-03 23:31:39 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1607 2013-09-03 23:33:20 Neskia has joined
1608 2013-09-03 23:34:20 <numismatics> credibility? http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/
1609 2013-09-03 23:34:56 agricocb has joined
1610 2013-09-03 23:36:03 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1611 2013-09-03 23:36:41 rdymac has joined
1612 2013-09-03 23:38:34 <gmaxwell> numismatics: What are you talking about and why is it ontopic for #bitcoin-dev?
1613 2013-09-03 23:40:23 <TheLordOfTime> gmaxwell:  looks like am amsg
1614 2013-09-03 23:40:26 <TheLordOfTime> an amsg*
1615 2013-09-03 23:41:45 <numismatics> whether or not the end nonce distribution is truly random, i cant tell if its fud or not
1616 2013-09-03 23:42:18 <gmaxwell> numismatics: Who cares? It's a value freely selected by anyone producing blocks.
1617 2013-09-03 23:42:35 <numismatics> that answers my question
1618 2013-09-03 23:45:14 cypher has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1619 2013-09-03 23:48:18 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1620 2013-09-03 23:49:38 btcbtc has joined
1621 2013-09-03 23:49:41 cyphase has joined
1622 2013-09-03 23:56:34 Krellan__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1623 2013-09-03 23:57:22 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1624 2013-09-03 23:57:42 normanrichards has quit ()