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28 2013-09-06 00:47:17 <Krellan> midnightmagic: another "private" network that synchronizes simultaneous timed releases into main Bitcoin network - you just described p2pool :)
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63 2013-09-06 01:58:11 <imton> guys, I just saw @sipa watch-only pull, can't be more happy
64 2013-09-06 01:58:38 <imton> but I am not getting how to use it :)
65 2013-09-06 01:59:07 <imton> What's the rpc call to get txs from & to an address?
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75 2013-09-06 02:09:34 <Luke-Jr> imton: there is no "from" address..
76 2013-09-06 02:10:05 <imton> Luke-Jr:
77 2013-09-06 02:10:07 <imton> ok
78 2013-09-06 02:10:49 <imton> i was using sipa's "searchrawtransactions"
79 2013-09-06 02:11:23 <imton> I need to get all tx related with the address
80 2013-09-06 02:11:38 <imton> I know there is no address but if I am not wrong theres is a from tx that i was to an address, right?
81 2013-09-06 02:12:04 <Luke-Jr> imton: but it's that transaction is unrelated to the address
82 2013-09-06 02:12:08 <Luke-Jr> s/it's//
83 2013-09-06 02:13:55 <imton> could you explain me that a little bit more? I don't get why it is "unrelated"
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88 2013-09-06 02:17:28 <gmaxwell> imton: to use the watch-only pull you import pubkeys to watch and then it behaves like they are local. Thats it.
89 2013-09-06 02:19:21 <imton> gmaxwell: the problem is that i've never used any other RPC call other than "searchrawtransactions" which gave me almost everything in just 1 response.
90 2013-09-06 02:19:39 <imton> How could I get the same after importing the address?
91 2013-09-06 02:19:45 <cfields> anyone around who can run a gitian build? i'd like to verify that autotools is deterministic non-locally
92 2013-09-06 02:19:46 <gmaxwell> listtransactions
93 2013-09-06 02:20:16 <gmaxwell> imton: though if you're talking about 'from addresses' you're potentially dangerously confused.
94 2013-09-06 02:20:51 <gmaxwell> Transactions don't have a (or multiple) from address(s) and people believing that they do have been responsible for losing a fair bit of coin.
95 2013-09-06 02:20:54 <imton> gmaxwell: I really know how it works and I do know that there is not from address.
96 2013-09-06 02:21:32 <imton> gmaxwell: but do they have a "to" right?
97 2013-09-06 02:22:40 <imton> as I understood it txs have "ins" and "outs" , the "ins" are previous txs outputs and "outs" are addresses
98 2013-09-06 02:22:46 <imton> am i right?
99 2013-09-06 02:23:12 <lianj> not really but close
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102 2013-09-06 02:24:19 <lianj> imton: http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/203bda3adf5b01dcbe5808ed6a7d487c7df26e5babc27dcd384630a11e10ce85
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105 2013-09-06 02:25:12 <imton> which part I am missing?
106 2013-09-06 02:25:15 <gmaxwell> imton: well, outs are not addresses. They are scriptpubkeys. Some scriptpubkeys can be represented by an address, some can't. ... but close enough.
107 2013-09-06 02:25:29 <imton> awsome
108 2013-09-06 02:25:31 <imton> awesome
109 2013-09-06 02:25:49 <lianj> outs have a value and script (where some standard scripts can be seen as higher level addresses if you want) and inputs have prev_out (which references and previous output) and a script. both scripts combined have to return true for the tx to be valid
110 2013-09-06 02:27:38 <imton> cool, thanks for the explanation! my next thing to understand properly are "Scripts" which are being a little hard to get so far. but that explanations help me a lot.
111 2013-09-06 02:28:20 <imton> we you say "combined" what kind of "combination" does it mean?
112 2013-09-06 02:28:39 <lianj> http://paste.mhanne.net/raw/16d0e7b31e727514dc8453cb29268f6b91de192c this a the most common standard script. the hash160 can be converted to address format. but the real bitcoin network protocol doesn't know or care about addresses
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114 2013-09-06 02:29:19 <lianj> (input_script + previous_output_script).run == true
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116 2013-09-06 02:31:59 <imton> thanks :)
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119 2013-09-06 02:33:28 <imton> now⦠do "listtransactions" lists spent txs?
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125 2013-09-06 02:40:51 <imton> I just see it doesâ¦I think..
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145 2013-09-06 03:32:16 <jgarzik> 2013-09-06 03:30:02 Committing 5 changed transactions to coin database...
146 2013-09-06 03:32:16 <jgarzik> 2013-09-06 03:30:02 SetBestChain: new best=0000000062a2df2ef5d5840c3d1e12559c0f3beb5c3248b7cfebdb6ed176a28c height=104157 log2_work=54.328785 tx=623758 date=2013-09-06 03:28:25 progress=0.999999
147 2013-09-06 03:32:16 <jgarzik> 2013-09-06 03:30:02 CheckForkWarningConditions: Warning: Large valid fork found
148 2013-09-06 03:32:16 <jgarzik> forking the chain at height 104129 (00000000411a70a86b59c73d2eb2f0e780bf7b5ec94f9eb155e50a5f685a638a)
149 2013-09-06 03:32:16 <jgarzik> lasting to height 104130 (00000000008cfab70c62f5195fa8e405635ebe10a83914d7fcf31aa525165102).
150 2013-09-06 03:32:19 <jgarzik> Chain state database corruption likely.
151 2013-09-06 03:32:22 <jgarzik> hum
152 2013-09-06 03:32:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, "large"
153 2013-09-06 03:32:49 <phantomcircuit> 1 block
154 2013-09-06 03:32:51 <phantomcircuit> maybe 2
155 2013-09-06 03:33:07 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, gmaxwell was saying that code is too trigger happy
156 2013-09-06 03:33:16 <phantomcircuit> maybe i can poke him into a discussion of it
157 2013-09-06 03:33:23 * phantomcircuit pokes gmaxwell
158 2013-09-06 03:33:26 <jgarzik> testnet, FWIW
159 2013-09-06 03:34:02 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, open the client again
160 2013-09-06 03:34:13 <phantomcircuit> iirc it has to do with specific access patterns in initial sync
161 2013-09-06 03:34:45 <jgarzik> it was open for a long time, many hours
162 2013-09-06 03:34:51 <jgarzik> restarting now with -reindex
163 2013-09-06 03:35:37 ericmuyser has joined
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165 2013-09-06 03:38:10 <jgarzik> same after -reindex
166 2013-09-06 03:38:37 <jgarzik> same height, same hashes, same message as above
167 2013-09-06 03:38:44 <phantomcircuit> huh
168 2013-09-06 03:39:08 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, can you check to see what the branches actually look like for the blocks in blkXXXX.dat ?
169 2013-09-06 03:39:17 <phantomcircuit> (i have no idea if there's a tool to do that usefully
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171 2013-09-06 03:39:47 <jgarzik> I don't think there's a tool for that
172 2013-09-06 03:40:27 <jgarzik> could do it with some python coding, but it's work on top of other work, and it's late ;p
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175 2013-09-06 03:42:39 <gmaxwell> I think we need to back out that warning stuff. It is too trigger happy.. and it will be easier to fix after headers first is merged.
176 2013-09-06 03:42:50 * jgarzik wonders if testnet is stuck globally
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178 2013-09-06 03:43:13 * gmaxwell starts a testnet node.
179 2013-09-06 03:44:45 <jgarzik> <shrug> maybe it's not stuck, and it's just as it says -- a large valid fork
180 2013-09-06 03:44:51 ticean has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
181 2013-09-06 03:44:55 <gmaxwell> ah, I wonder if someone crashed all of testnet. I don't seem to be getting any connections.
182 2013-09-06 03:45:07 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: can you tell me a peer you're connected out to so I can adnode?
183 2013-09-06 03:45:10 <warren> gmaxwell: so my warnings about warning were not wrong.
184 2013-09-06 03:45:26 ticean has joined
185 2013-09-06 03:45:33 <jgarzik> "addr" : "95.211.60.21:18333",
186 2013-09-06 03:45:42 <jgarzik> "addr" : "192.64.116.44:18333",
187 2013-09-06 03:45:53 <jgarzik> "addr" : "54.213.104.223:18333",
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196 2013-09-06 03:55:26 <jgarzik> 013-09-06 03:53:51 SetBestChain: new best=00000000fd1651d2911574f8ef481003a24d87366f87f25f1b2075494cad5a4a height=104159 log2_work=54.328896 tx=623762 date=2013-09-06 03:53:50 progress=1.000000
197 2013-09-06 03:55:26 <jgarzik> 2013-09-06 03:53:51 CheckForkWarningConditions: Warning: Large valid fork found
198 2013-09-06 03:55:26 <jgarzik> forking the chain at height 104129 (00000000411a70a86b59c73d2eb2f0e780bf7b5ec94f9eb155e50a5f685a638a)
199 2013-09-06 03:55:26 <jgarzik> lasting to height 104130 (00000000008cfab70c62f5195fa8e405635ebe10a83914d7fcf31aa525165102).
200 2013-09-06 03:55:26 <jgarzik> Chain state database corruption likely.
201 2013-09-06 03:55:28 <jgarzik> 2013-09-06 03:53:51 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
202 2013-09-06 03:55:53 <jgarzik> looks like it will just complain once per best-block received
203 2013-09-06 03:55:55 <jgarzik> but continue working
204 2013-09-06 03:57:10 <gmaxwell> "blocks" : 104159,
205 2013-09-06 03:57:42 <gmaxwell> "bestblock" : "00000000fd1651d2911574f8ef481003a24d87366f87f25f1b2075494cad5a4a",
206 2013-09-06 03:57:45 <gmaxwell> "hash_serialized" : "ecde188475464b410608e37c383f07791af01cac7b5e695384829bc1cb201d5a",
207 2013-09-06 03:57:49 <gmaxwell> your txoutset agree?
208 2013-09-06 03:57:52 <gjs278> Diablo-D3: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~iostream/write_performance.html and http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~iostream/read_performance.html dfly bsd hammerfs compression zlib/lz4 comparison
209 2013-09-06 03:58:49 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, yes
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213 2013-09-06 04:00:25 <jgarzik> gjs278, Matt is still cranking out his own BSD eh?
214 2013-09-06 04:00:39 <gjs278> yes, he gets a ton of summer of code projects
215 2013-09-06 04:00:47 * jgarzik used to run his Diablo NNTP news server stuff
216 2013-09-06 04:01:20 <gjs278> they're working on the i915/radeon stuff that freebsd recently imported
217 2013-09-06 04:01:29 <gjs278> he's just mainly working on hammer2
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228 2013-09-06 04:17:13 <jaekwon> is there a whitepaper or something that describes the security of the ripemd-160(sha256()) hash method?
229 2013-09-06 04:18:31 KillYourTV has joined
230 2013-09-06 04:19:52 <jaekwon> what i really want to know is the best way to create a human friendly fingerprint that is short, and i'm considering the ripemd-160(sha256()) approach, but also wondering if just taking the first say 160 (or less maybe 140) bits of a sha256() or sha512() might work just as well.
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233 2013-09-06 04:20:53 <jaekwon> also, an aside, why is the checksum double sha256'd? wouldn't a single run do well enough for a checksum? strange.
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237 2013-09-06 04:28:16 <jgarzik> jaekwon, because 2xsha256 is a standard bitcoin operation
238 2013-09-06 04:28:27 <jgarzik> jaekwon, easier just to Do It That Way Everywhere
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241 2013-09-06 04:34:13 <gmaxwell> jaekwon: sure, an actual _checksum_ would also work well enough for a checksum.
242 2013-09-06 04:35:38 <gmaxwell> jaekwon: fingerprint for what?
243 2013-09-06 04:40:33 <jgarzik> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-05/bitcoin-mania-grips-china
244 2013-09-06 04:40:35 <jgarzik> "In May, China briefly overtook the U.S. in monthly creation of Bitcoins, rising from seventh place in August last year. China now ranks second, according to SourceForge, a technology website that tracks Bitcoin activity worldwide. "
245 2013-09-06 04:41:05 <jgarzik> methinks they confuse (a) block creation and software downloads, and (b) sourceforge with a site that "tracks bitcoin activity worldwide"
246 2013-09-06 04:48:47 <Cusipzzz> i get all my block creation stats from SourceForge
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267 2013-09-06 05:18:54 <_dr> oh mr snowden. let's hope they only put backdoors into aes and not sha2
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269 2013-09-06 05:25:11 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #393: FAILURE in 23 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/393/
270 2013-09-06 05:28:17 <gmaxwell> make[1]: /mnt/mingw/protobuf-2.5.0/protoc: Command not found
271 2013-09-06 05:28:26 <_dr> I was arguing always in favor of the NSA since it came to light the DES S-boxes actually strengthen DES (the only scary thing was that the NSA knew 40 years before academia about linear cryptanalysis). But now I bet it will be revealed they just used all their petro-$ to buy the intellectual capacity to backdoor the design of every major cipher ever approved by the NIST :(
272 2013-09-06 05:28:35 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: your builder at jenkins.bluematt.me needs protobuff
273 2013-09-06 05:29:04 <_dr> which is really, really scary
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352 2013-09-06 09:01:29 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell BlueMatt: that's my fault, I was mucking with the build machine...
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377 2013-09-06 09:49:47 <djcoin> Hi there, i'm really new to bitcoin. I wanted to know how you could query and maybe replicate the bitcoin database (if that make any sense) :)
378 2013-09-06 09:51:24 <tgs3> djcoin: well sure your node has the copy of database... the files are in ~/.bitcoin/ you can copy them
379 2013-09-06 09:51:53 <tgs3> djcoin: there are progrmas like fixwallet in python that do query, manipulate etc this data files directly, if you will duckduckgo it
380 2013-09-06 09:52:16 <djcoin> tgs3: thanks for your reply, alright, so in fact you replicate the database locally and then query it
381 2013-09-06 09:52:56 <djcoin> Any pointer on the replication/synchronization mechanism that enable this ?
382 2013-09-06 09:53:35 <tgs3> djcoin: just copy the ~/.bitcoin/
383 2013-09-06 09:53:46 <tgs3> while node is offline to it's in sonsistent state
384 2013-09-06 09:54:51 <djcoin> Yeah, but in fact I was rather curious about the underlying tech
385 2013-09-06 09:57:41 <tgs3> they had one db.. barkley? and now switching to another one. #bitcoin-dev has more detail
386 2013-09-06 09:57:58 <djcoin> leveldb
387 2013-09-06 09:58:01 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
388 2013-09-06 09:58:13 <djcoin> We are on #bitcoin-dev :)
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408 2013-09-06 10:29:06 <gavinandresen> the wallet is still a berkeley db database. The blockchain is a leveldb database.
409 2013-09-06 10:29:28 <gavinandresen> ⦠because TWO databases are obviously better than ONE database
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424 2013-09-06 11:04:49 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
425 2013-09-06 11:04:49 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #394: FIXED in 32 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/394/
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453 2013-09-06 12:16:14 <TD> petertodd: poke
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457 2013-09-06 12:19:04 <gmaxwell> TD: I believe he is on vacation, though perhaps not for much longer.
458 2013-09-06 12:19:08 <TD> ah
459 2013-09-06 12:19:11 <TD> thanks
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466 2013-09-06 12:25:57 <Luke-Jr> Where's etothepi these days?
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468 2013-09-06 12:27:16 <jouke> TD: http://testnet.bitonic.nl
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470 2013-09-06 12:33:32 <TD> jouke: nice!
471 2013-09-06 12:33:53 <TD> jouke: is it possible to see unconfirmed transactions?
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473 2013-09-06 12:41:39 <jouke> TD: I believe so if you look up the specific transactions. Mempool is imported every minute.
474 2013-09-06 12:41:51 <TD> cool
475 2013-09-06 12:41:53 <TD> thanks
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482 2013-09-06 12:54:08 <Diablo-D3> [11:57:06] <gjs278> Diablo-D3: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~iostream/write_performance.html and http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~iostream/read_performance.html dfly bsd hammerfs compression zlib/lz4 comparison
483 2013-09-06 12:54:15 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: thats not a useful comparison
484 2013-09-06 12:54:23 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: it doesnt list how much cpu time it took
485 2013-09-06 12:54:37 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: those are all clearly limited by the disk io
486 2013-09-06 12:56:04 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: the point of lz4 is you get ~75% of the compression with a quarter of the cpu usage
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488 2013-09-06 12:56:38 <xeroc> so what you think about: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1lucdy/did_linus_torvalds_backdoor_linux_random_number/
489 2013-09-06 12:56:40 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: its a replacement for lzo, not deflate
490 2013-09-06 12:57:08 <Diablo-D3> xeroc: unlikely, especially since linux supports too many hw random number generators
491 2013-09-06 12:57:41 <Diablo-D3> xeroc: plus it also mixes in interrupts and such to get more entropy
492 2013-09-06 12:58:30 <xeroc> ah .. right ..
493 2013-09-06 12:58:47 <xeroc> i remember that part to be broken back when debian ssh-key gen was fucked up
494 2013-09-06 12:59:07 <Diablo-D3> no, debian's ssh problem was
495 2013-09-06 12:59:24 <Diablo-D3> they used a patch that was not released that nuked entropy
496 2013-09-06 12:59:29 <Diablo-D3> it was entirely in ssh itself
497 2013-09-06 12:59:34 <Diablo-D3> had nothing to do with the kernel
498 2013-09-06 13:00:02 <xeroc> Ah .. thanks
499 2013-09-06 13:00:09 <xeroc> gonna sleep well again :-)
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502 2013-09-06 13:03:59 <Diablo-D3> xeroc: btw, the patch DID do what it was supposed to
503 2013-09-06 13:04:03 <Diablo-D3> it greatly speeded up ssh
504 2013-09-06 13:04:29 <Diablo-D3> just because whoever wrote the patch didn't realize gcc dead trimmed a bunch of code to ensure entropy quality
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507 2013-09-06 13:08:13 <jgarzik> jouke, awesome! (the testnet URL)
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567 2013-09-06 14:26:18 <warren> jgarzik: hey, we're seeing consistent 100-200MB increases in memory use per daemon on fedora or centos when compared to Fedora. In both cases they are running the same gitian binary.
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569 2013-09-06 14:26:53 <warren> jgarzik: oops, I mean Fedora/CentOS uses 100-200MB more ram than Ubuntu when running the same gitian-built daemon
570 2013-09-06 14:27:07 <warren> jgarzik: I'm curious as to why you guessed it was bdb?
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577 2013-09-06 14:29:20 <warren> Separate question for everyone: I'd like to add a generic facility in init.cpp or util.h or something that detects CPU features for the purpose of runtime switching between alternate implementations of generic and SSE2. Where would the most appropriate place be to add it, and would you recommend studying a particular implementation in another project?
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579 2013-09-06 14:31:00 <Luke-Jr> warren: no reason a node should care about SSE2? O.o
580 2013-09-06 14:31:13 fant has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
581 2013-09-06 14:31:36 <warren> For example, we have code that is 50% faster with SSE2 than generic. but given the gitian build must run on older hardware, we need a runtime detection for which method to use. While currently nothing in Bitcoin needs something like this, I'd like to put a generic facility in for convenience for others.
582 2013-09-06 14:31:47 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: ltc has a SSE2 based version of its header hash .. which it needs because its so slow.
583 2013-09-06 14:31:55 <Luke-Jr> this isn't #scamcoin
584 2013-09-06 14:32:10 <warren> Doesn't secp256k1 have alternate implementations within it?
585 2013-09-06 14:32:10 <gmaxwell> though we're now also sha2 speed limited in bitcoin in some cases, so perhaps we'll want to do the same regardless.
586 2013-09-06 14:32:20 <runeks> Any python-bitcoinlib experts in here? How am I supposed to use CKey.set_privkey()? When I use it passing a 32 byte buffer I get a segmentation fault when running CKey.get_pubkey()
587 2013-09-06 14:32:40 <gmaxwell> warren: none that are runtime switchable.. just x86 vs x86_64 (and different bignum libs)
588 2013-09-06 14:32:43 <Luke-Jr> but I'd look at ffmpeg's stuff
589 2013-09-06 14:32:50 <warren> Luke-Jr: calm down with the kneejerk, I'm trying to do the right thing for bitcoin, and pushing as much useful code upstream as possible.
590 2013-09-06 14:32:55 <warren> gmaxwell: ok, I misunderstood
591 2013-09-06 14:33:08 <gmaxwell> warren: maybe in the future it will though.
592 2013-09-06 14:33:26 <Luke-Jr> video codecs want to take advantage of CPU runtime detection all the time, so it seems the obvious place to look for good implementations
593 2013-09-06 14:33:32 <jgarzik> w00t
594 2013-09-06 14:33:42 <Luke-Jr> BFGMiner does it by trying each one in a forked process and seeing which reports back the fastest
595 2013-09-06 14:34:02 <jgarzik> first bitcoin salary payment arrived! (BitPay just convinced their payroll provider to permit a %-age of your salary to be paid in bitcoins)
596 2013-09-06 14:34:17 <warren> nice
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599 2013-09-06 14:34:50 <theorbtwo> jgarzik: funky!
600 2013-09-06 14:34:55 <jgarzik> warren, RE memory -- just a random guess it was BDB. When I implemented no-wallet mode, that disables BDB initialization completely. Saved a bunch of memory, > 40MB.
601 2013-09-06 14:35:08 <jgarzik> warren, you might try testing no-wallet mode pull req, and see if that perturbs the results at all
602 2013-09-06 14:35:23 <theorbtwo> it's impressive that they managed to actually convince a payroll provider to do that, rather then doing their own payroll and just doing it.
603 2013-09-06 14:35:34 <jgarzik> oh shite. xchat is farking up. bbias.
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605 2013-09-06 14:35:50 <Luke-Jr> warren: note automake requires some hacks to build SSE2-specific code without the entire program being SSE2
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610 2013-09-06 14:36:26 <jgarzik> yes, that was the big hurdle, convincing BitPay's payroll provider
611 2013-09-06 14:36:32 <warren> jgarzik: yeah, I really want to test a backport of nowallet to 0.8, not enough tuits
612 2013-09-06 14:36:45 <jgarzik> but now, all companies at that payroll provider can do payroll in bitcoins
613 2013-09-06 14:36:50 <Luke-Jr> theorbtwo: bypassing the payroll would make more tax problems I bet
614 2013-09-06 14:37:02 <warren> jgarzik: and it's sad that the PR devolved into bikeshedding instead of review
615 2013-09-06 14:37:31 <jgarzik> most payroll providers permit the employee to multiple outputs for their salary: bank A gets X dollars, bank B gets Y percent of payout, etc. It was straightforward to slot in a bitcoin address :)
616 2013-09-06 14:37:41 <warren> Luke-Jr: yeah, I'm familiar with the autotools part
617 2013-09-06 14:37:53 <theorbtwo> Luke-Jr: You can do the tax shit yourself, it's just an almighty pain in the ass.
618 2013-09-06 14:37:59 p2pool52_ has joined
619 2013-09-06 14:38:06 <jgarzik> theorbtwo, == time and money
620 2013-09-06 14:38:11 <jgarzik> and legal risks, if you screw up
621 2013-09-06 14:38:13 <Luke-Jr> theorbtwo: that's presumably why they pay a payroll provider to do it for them!
622 2013-09-06 14:38:25 p2pool52 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
623 2013-09-06 14:38:46 <jgarzik> much smarter to use a payroll provider. It is doubly important for prominent bitcoin businesses to Get It Right, and be clean & legal in all respects.
624 2013-09-06 14:38:48 p2pool52_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
625 2013-09-06 14:39:03 <jgarzik> We turn down all sorts of medical marijuana and nutty porn merchants, as another example
626 2013-09-06 14:39:32 <jgarzik> Perform checks on other merchant classes (notably miners w/ pre-order)
627 2013-09-06 14:39:32 bizoro has joined
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629 2013-09-06 14:39:32 bizoro has joined
630 2013-09-06 14:39:33 <warren> how do you draw the line on nutty?
631 2013-09-06 14:39:57 <jgarzik> warren, look at jurisdictional practice and law, and make sure we fall on the right side of it ;p
632 2013-09-06 14:40:14 <theorbtwo> jgarzik: very good point.
633 2013-09-06 14:41:19 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
634 2013-09-06 14:42:05 <maaku> warren: however you want. your business, your customers
635 2013-09-06 14:42:38 <theorbtwo> Hm. I suppose there's nothing like common-carrier in your line of business?
636 2013-09-06 14:44:11 AndyOfiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
637 2013-09-06 14:44:20 <warren> gmaxwell: where would the proper place be to put a generic CPUID detection method?
638 2013-09-06 14:44:31 patcon has joined
639 2013-09-06 14:44:34 <warren> gmaxwell: for other parts of bitcoin to use
640 2013-09-06 14:45:59 <gmaxwell> I'd but the runtime cpu detection at the top of init.cpp I guess... hurray, another global!
641 2013-09-06 14:46:48 <jgarzik> too bad bitcoin is not Linux-only, we could just ask glibc for its cached value
642 2013-09-06 14:47:07 <jgarzik> and use sync_file_range() to speed up I/O
643 2013-09-06 14:48:09 COGSMITH has joined
644 2013-09-06 14:48:32 <theorbtwo> jgarzik: No reason that not being linux-only means that you *can't* do that, just that it'd be good to be able to do the equiv on other OSes.
645 2013-09-06 14:48:51 Subo1977_ has joined
646 2013-09-06 14:50:46 <cfields> autoconf lets you provide as many implementations as you want, in that situation
647 2013-09-06 14:51:08 <cfields> you can use the newest trendy compiler/libc features if you want
648 2013-09-06 14:51:16 <cfields> just a question of how many combinations you want to support
649 2013-09-06 14:51:54 <jgarzik> cfields, speaking ofÂ
I saw pulltester looking happy
650 2013-09-06 14:51:59 <jgarzik> cfields, how close to merge are we?
651 2013-09-06 14:51:59 sensorii has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
652 2013-09-06 14:53:32 Someguy123 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
653 2013-09-06 14:53:43 <cfields> jgarzik: i'm sure there are tons of warts, but it's as done as i can get it without wider testing
654 2013-09-06 14:53:58 <cfields> so, up to you guys at this point
655 2013-09-06 14:54:12 maaku has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
656 2013-09-06 14:54:13 macboz has joined
657 2013-09-06 14:54:52 <jgarzik> cfields, any last gavinandresen grumps to fix?
658 2013-09-06 14:55:18 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, in C I'd set some function pointers at startup, and forget about checking a flag
659 2013-09-06 14:55:28 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I wonder if there's any way to do something like that with methods
660 2013-09-06 14:55:51 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: in GCC you can now actually have the compiler/linker handle all the runtime detection.. but only gcc 4.8+
661 2013-09-06 14:56:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: at startup once? :p
662 2013-09-06 14:56:27 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: After some point it probably won't get better without us suffering through it... so yea, I'm in favor of merging at least once it works for a few people.
663 2013-09-06 14:56:32 Someguy123 has joined
664 2013-09-06 14:56:46 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yea, at the same time it does the relocations and symboltable mapping stuff.
665 2013-09-06 14:56:54 maaku has joined
666 2013-09-06 14:56:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: only in C++ though.
667 2013-09-06 14:57:26 <cfields> gmaxwell: agreed, i think that's the stage we've reached
668 2013-09-06 14:57:28 sensorii has joined
669 2013-09-06 14:57:38 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, I wonder how that mixes with inline asm
670 2013-09-06 14:57:58 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, my comment on the PR said as much, indeed
671 2013-09-06 14:58:00 Polyatomic has quit (Quit: Catcha Round)
672 2013-09-06 14:58:03 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: in theora we have a set of macros which are direct function calls when you're compiled exclusively for certian functions, or are references to function pointers in a state struct that is set at init time.
673 2013-09-06 14:58:21 <jgarzik> cfields, any last gavinandresen grumps to fix?
674 2013-09-06 14:58:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but that's C, not C++?
675 2013-09-06 14:58:33 mortikia has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
676 2013-09-06 14:58:51 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: correct. I guess I should look to see how firefox handles it.
677 2013-09-06 14:59:10 <gmaxwell> but firefox code is not really idiomatic C++ it's idiomatic firefox code (like most large C++ codebases)
678 2013-09-06 14:59:14 owowo has joined
679 2013-09-06 14:59:23 <cfields> jgarzik: not that i'm aware of. but i'm not sure he's actually considered it for merging yet, so much as vaguely preparing for it
680 2013-09-06 14:59:31 <maaku> gmaxwell: sounds liek a vtable..
681 2013-09-06 14:59:32 agath has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
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684 2013-09-06 15:00:06 <gmaxwell> maaku: effectively, yes, though one that can get optimized out with a define at compile time.
685 2013-09-06 15:00:28 <gmaxwell> (which the kind of sufficiently smart c++ compiler that doesn't actually exist could do in some cases too. :P )
686 2013-09-06 15:00:53 <cfields> jgarzik: i'm headed out the door for a weekend trip though, so i expect i'll have some grumps when i get back
687 2013-09-06 15:02:28 <cfields> jgarzik: to my knowledge, nobody's tried the packaging side of it yet
688 2013-09-06 15:02:51 <cfields> which i consider to be important, but i think gavinandresen considered it to be something to be worked out post-merge
689 2013-09-06 15:03:32 rdymac has joined
690 2013-09-06 15:03:36 Subo1977_ is now known as Subo1977
691 2013-09-06 15:03:51 <jgarzik> cfields, packaging?
692 2013-09-06 15:03:56 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
693 2013-09-06 15:04:01 <jgarzik> cfields, you mean, like Debian deb or Red Hat rpm?
694 2013-09-06 15:06:51 <cfields> jgarzik: i mean: 'make dist' spits out a deterministic tarball
695 2013-09-06 15:07:04 <cfields> 'make deploy' spits out a win32 installer or osx dmg
696 2013-09-06 15:07:23 <cfields> gitian works afaik, but i don't think anyone but me has tested my changes there
697 2013-09-06 15:07:50 <cfields> etc
698 2013-09-06 15:09:36 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
699 2013-09-06 15:09:48 <Luke-Jr> it'd be neat if 'make deploy' could handle Debian and RedHat too, but that can be post-merge
700 2013-09-06 15:10:11 owowo has joined
701 2013-09-06 15:10:16 <cfields> yep, my thinking as well
702 2013-09-06 15:10:52 <cfields> jgarzik: i'm headed out the door, probably no computer til monday. ping me on github if there's anything you'd like to discuss, i'll have my phone
703 2013-09-06 15:11:09 <sipa> hi there
704 2013-09-06 15:11:19 <sipa> any interesting evolutions in btcland?
705 2013-09-06 15:11:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: nsa cracked secp256k1
706 2013-09-06 15:12:03 <sipa> cool
707 2013-09-06 15:12:05 <gmaxwell> and after you spent all that time optimizing it.
708 2013-09-06 15:12:13 <gmaxwell> (I'm kidding, of course)
709 2013-09-06 15:12:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: Is your vacation as fun as bitcoin?
710 2013-09-06 15:12:33 <lianj> cracked secp256k1 by trolling your rng
711 2013-09-06 15:12:42 <sipa> if i didn't think you were kidding, my response wouldn't be "cool"
712 2013-09-06 15:13:03 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
713 2013-09-06 15:13:07 <gmaxwell> the I'm kidding is for the people monitoring the channel mostly.
714 2013-09-06 15:13:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: sure, climbed a mountain today, that turned out to be a bit tougher tham expected (though still fun!)
715 2013-09-06 15:13:44 <sipa> *than
716 2013-09-06 15:13:53 p2pool52 has joined
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718 2013-09-06 15:14:06 <jgarzik> sipa, still near Bratislava? :)
719 2013-09-06 15:14:08 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
720 2013-09-06 15:14:09 <gmaxwell> lianj: I have some really awesome backdoored code along those lines.
721 2013-09-06 15:14:37 <sipa> jgarzik: no, just passed throufh there; now near Poprad (never heard about it, until we arranged this vacation)
722 2013-09-06 15:14:43 p2pool52 has joined
723 2013-09-06 15:15:03 <sipa> which, to US norms, is probably close to Bratislava
724 2013-09-06 15:16:34 <helo> *The Milky Way
725 2013-09-06 15:17:08 p2pool52_ has joined
726 2013-09-06 15:17:27 <sipa> or to quote Randall Munroe: space is closer than bratislava here
727 2013-09-06 15:19:03 rdymac has joined
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737 2013-09-06 15:33:27 <imton> guys, using signrawtransaciton I am getting "Previous output scriptPubKey mismatch:"
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781 2013-09-06 16:20:02 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, most of the drivers that used to add to the entropy pool dont any more it's largely limited to interrupt handler timings
782 2013-09-06 16:21:22 bizoro has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
783 2013-09-06 16:21:36 ticean has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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785 2013-09-06 16:25:41 <phantomcircuit> * gmaxwell sets ban on *!*@acen248.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.p
786 2013-09-06 16:25:44 <phantomcircuit> you missed an l
787 2013-09-06 16:26:26 <licnep> i know some people have talked about it before, but what do you guys think about blacklists for stolen bitcoins?
788 2013-09-06 16:26:33 <licnep> do you have any link to forum or blog posts discussing the idea?
789 2013-09-06 16:27:04 MCM-Mike has joined
790 2013-09-06 16:27:09 <Luke-Jr> licnep: futile
791 2013-09-06 16:27:14 <phantomcircuit> <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, in C I'd set some function pointers at startup, and forget about checking a flag
792 2013-09-06 16:27:29 <Luke-Jr> licnep: the thief just needs to find one person willing to accept them
793 2013-09-06 16:27:49 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, that makes NX memory much harder to implement
794 2013-09-06 16:28:06 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: not necessarily
795 2013-09-06 16:28:08 <licnep> Luke-Jr: mmm
796 2013-09-06 16:29:26 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it's standard C, and works fine with all NX implementations AFAIK
797 2013-09-06 16:29:52 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, it wouldn't work with some of the more extreme grsec settings
798 2013-09-06 16:30:10 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: then those grsec is buggy
799 2013-09-06 16:30:13 <phantomcircuit> vlc for example will not run under a grsec kernel unless you disable cpu detection
800 2013-09-06 16:30:54 <phantomcircuit> (neither will a bunch of Xorg either so it's kind of irrelevant there)
801 2013-09-06 16:30:58 handle is now known as gribble
802 2013-09-06 16:31:05 gribble is now known as handle
803 2013-09-06 16:31:14 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, not really it's just intentionally disabling things where it has big warnings that you'll break stuff
804 2013-09-06 16:32:49 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it's like disabling the GPU and complaining graphics don't work
805 2013-09-06 16:33:12 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, well it's like disabling the GPU and then graphics don't work
806 2013-09-06 16:33:19 <phantomcircuit> nobody said anything about complaining
807 2013-09-06 16:33:50 <phantomcircuit> for an example the intersango hotwallet runs on such a grsec kernel
808 2013-09-06 16:34:00 <phantomcircuit> and bitcoin currently works fine
809 2013-09-06 16:34:07 <phantomcircuit> well bitcoind does at least
810 2013-09-06 16:34:36 banghouse has joined
811 2013-09-06 16:38:17 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: saying it's something people should be expected to support is equivalent to complaining <.<
812 2013-09-06 16:40:40 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, it's something that's reasonable to support in this particular instance
813 2013-09-06 16:41:17 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, iirc whether it works is partially dependent on randomness in how gcc actually compiles the function dereference
814 2013-09-06 16:41:34 <phantomcircuit> so supporting it might be a tad difficult
815 2013-09-06 16:43:27 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: uh, dude, function pointers don't do anything to break nx.
816 2013-09-06 16:43:54 <gmaxwell> C++ code basically cannot run without function pointers in any case... they're used for dynamic method dispatch on objects.
817 2013-09-06 16:44:40 gribble has joined
818 2013-09-06 16:44:50 <gmaxwell> if vlc doesn't run in grsec.. it's not related to that. :P
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859 2013-09-06 17:50:37 <gmaxwell> payments to the correct horse ninja racetrack thing are a full 2% of the UTXO set.
860 2013-09-06 17:51:05 <gmaxwell> 140874 txouts
861 2013-09-06 17:51:16 wamatt has joined
862 2013-09-06 17:51:20 <gmaxwell> 1Fi57hAqyYYwaQVdA7a9qSKfiukBbt31G3 is the runner up with 24342
863 2013-09-06 17:51:26 wamatt has quit (Client Quit)
864 2013-09-06 17:51:27 <gmaxwell> then 15tcsumFPsrw2p9Egmk7wGszFJVxpw7UiD with 9872
865 2013-09-06 17:51:35 <gmaxwell> then 1GDhoFrzbQ6Yp9LitKEH8xnWhUjhmaQRft with 7830
866 2013-09-06 17:51:42 <gmaxwell> 18MjktKzCJVUE7rfvTZSSCRd7wtCLB8nbg with 5431
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869 2013-09-06 18:05:59 Tom_Soft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
870 2013-09-06 18:08:51 <jgarzik> why???!?!?!
871 2013-09-06 18:08:53 owowo has joined
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874 2013-09-06 18:10:13 <gmaxwell> Here is the top 1000 offenders: http://0bin.net/paste/+o25YjSsZ1Sq59N0#EMyQg6ezdy+KuNbj5Qplq2AnND2tIQ/4V93r9qBoP5Q=
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878 2013-09-06 18:11:49 <sturles> Why don't pools automatically giving themselves all unspent txouts to the correct horse address when they mine a block?
879 2013-09-06 18:13:12 patcon has joined
880 2013-09-06 18:13:47 Squidicuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
881 2013-09-06 18:13:47 <gmaxwell> sturles: well at the moment it will take about 25 megabytes of signatures to redeem them all.
882 2013-09-06 18:13:58 <gmaxwell> and there are still ones being added.
883 2013-09-06 18:14:11 <gmaxwell> Luke blocks payments to them but I think few/no other pools do.
884 2013-09-06 18:14:11 saivann has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
885 2013-09-06 18:14:11 Squidicuz has joined
886 2013-09-06 18:14:24 <sturles> A few each time will help..
887 2013-09-06 18:14:34 <gmaxwell> yea, thats how this list got created, in fact.
888 2013-09-06 18:15:46 normanrichards has joined
889 2013-09-06 18:16:32 <gmaxwell> some idiot has created zillions of 0.0000546 BTC outputs to address(privatekey(sha256(dictonary word))) and crazy people on the forum posted some private keys and started moving them around.
890 2013-09-06 18:16:35 jMyles has joined
891 2013-09-06 18:16:44 <gmaxwell> I started snatching them up: https://blockchain.info/tx/b07e11bd2644e17157e76d149e6a3f0f7df95a6a18219efb34e79361cddc75e5
892 2013-09-06 18:16:46 normanrichards has quit (Client Quit)
893 2013-09-06 18:16:58 <gmaxwell> and I thought it would be useful to see how much work it would take to fix the correct horse thing.
894 2013-09-06 18:17:02 <gmaxwell> Turns out: a lot.
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897 2013-09-06 18:19:43 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
898 2013-09-06 18:22:24 <sturles> gmaxwell: I assume this transaction isn pruneable, and the coins will become fees?
899 2013-09-06 18:22:37 <sturles> *is
900 2013-09-06 18:23:52 <maaku> sturles: transaction is prunable, coins are destroyed
901 2013-09-06 18:24:19 <maaku> er, n/m output is 0, so yes, fees
902 2013-09-06 18:24:56 <gmaxwell> sturles: yes.
903 2013-09-06 18:25:57 <gmaxwell> it's also an ANYONECANPAY so a bunch of those could be merged...
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917 2013-09-06 18:34:33 <jgarzik> rofl
918 2013-09-06 18:34:40 <jgarzik> "Alice and Bob worked for the NSA all along."
919 2013-09-06 18:34:48 mcm is now known as MCM-Mike
920 2013-09-06 18:36:13 <sturles> :-D
921 2013-09-06 18:37:59 <phantomcircuit> lol
922 2013-09-06 18:38:13 <phantomcircuit> i went to radioshack to get an hdmi -> dvi adapter for my raspberry pi
923 2013-09-06 18:38:19 <phantomcircuit> they want more than the pi cost
924 2013-09-06 18:38:24 <phantomcircuit> gotta be kidding me
925 2013-09-06 18:39:30 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: lol
926 2013-09-06 18:39:37 <Diablo-D3> I always get one with a gpu for free
927 2013-09-06 18:39:42 _ingsoc has joined
928 2013-09-06 18:39:44 <gjs278> Diablo-D3 and the other thing that is wrong with it is he legitimately wasn't compressing text files because only things "50% or more" were actually compressed
929 2013-09-06 18:39:56 <gjs278> so lz4 was not even compressing a lot of files
930 2013-09-06 18:39:59 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, oh you know what i should go through my box of random cables
931 2013-09-06 18:40:03 <phantomcircuit> i just might have one
932 2013-09-06 18:40:37 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: lz4 has an early fail loop
933 2013-09-06 18:40:50 t7 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
934 2013-09-06 18:40:55 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: if it doesnt think it can compress it well, it doesnt
935 2013-09-06 18:41:00 <gjs278> it was a technical limitation on his part, not lz4
936 2013-09-06 18:41:07 <gjs278> he refused compression that wasn't at least 50%
937 2013-09-06 18:41:28 <gjs278> lz4 would report it can compress 40% and he just said nope to letting it go
938 2013-09-06 18:42:26 <gjs278> it's being written by a gsoc programmer so odds are he's from the middle of africa and that's more money than his village will ever see
939 2013-09-06 18:44:03 normanrichards has joined
940 2013-09-06 18:44:34 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: oh
941 2013-09-06 18:44:37 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: thats stupid of him
942 2013-09-06 18:44:43 <Diablo-D3> lz4 ALREADY manages that internally
943 2013-09-06 18:44:44 <runeks> When converting 32 bytes of random data to a Bitcoin public key, where is it the step can risk not being possible to perform? The conversion of the 32 bytes of data to a number shouldn't be able to fail, but when this BIGNUM is multiplied by the generator point of the curve, it's not guaranteed to produce a valid public key, right? The probability is low but it's not guaranteed right?
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948 2013-09-06 18:46:34 <gmaxwell> runeks: if its in range (between 1 and P) then its guaranteed.
949 2013-09-06 18:47:41 <runeks> gmaxwell: So the step that might fail is the point multiplication using the secp256k1 curve, right?
950 2013-09-06 18:48:01 tyn has joined
951 2013-09-06 18:49:28 <phantomcircuit> hmm
952 2013-09-06 18:49:30 <runeks> I'm using python-bitcoinlib, and it uses SSL's BN_bin2bn() to conver the data to a BIGNUM, and then EC_POINT_mul() to get the public key. As far as I can see the conversion of the data to a BIGNUM shouldn't fail (barring out-of-memory etc.), but the point multiplication might fail (if the BIGNUM is not less than P).
953 2013-09-06 18:49:41 ticean has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
954 2013-09-06 18:49:57 <phantomcircuit> ah i know i'll just get sshd to run by default
955 2013-09-06 18:50:00 <phantomcircuit> dont need video
956 2013-09-06 18:51:53 imton has quit (Quit: imton)
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960 2013-09-06 19:02:20 <jgarzik> random:
961 2013-09-06 19:02:31 <jgarzik> is there any blockchain-via-http service available to the general public?
962 2013-09-06 19:03:07 <jgarzik> where someone can download block data, and then parse it locally to see if they received payments
963 2013-09-06 19:03:39 <jgarzik> maybe one of the block explorers...
964 2013-09-06 19:04:39 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
965 2013-09-06 19:04:45 tyn has quit (Quit: Leaving)
966 2013-09-06 19:08:48 <runeks> jgarzik: What kind of block data do you want? Raw block data?
967 2013-09-06 19:08:53 <jgarzik> yes
968 2013-09-06 19:09:03 <jgarzik> binary or hex
969 2013-09-06 19:09:38 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i dont believe there is
970 2013-09-06 19:09:41 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, would you like one?
971 2013-09-06 19:10:06 robocoin_ has joined
972 2013-09-06 19:10:07 * jgarzik toyed with proposing that the Bitcoin Foundation pay for an Amazon S3 bucket, that stored all the blocks, and ACL== read-only-public
973 2013-09-06 19:10:46 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, was thinking yes. I can personally set one up in two seconds, but was thinking more on the implications of creating a simple wallet that spoke HTTP
974 2013-09-06 19:11:03 rdymac has joined
975 2013-09-06 19:11:18 <jgarzik> wallet downloads blocks, or pushes payments
976 2013-09-06 19:11:42 <jgarzik> would be usable through some of the more annoying firewalls
977 2013-09-06 19:11:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, setting that up would be fairly simple i think
978 2013-09-06 19:11:59 <jgarzik> and encourage diversity and use outside of the P2P network, which I think is healthy
979 2013-09-06 19:12:02 asuk has joined
980 2013-09-06 19:12:11 <phantomcircuit> but it would use an absolute ton of bandwidth compared to spv w/ bloomfiltering
981 2013-09-06 19:12:55 c0rw1n has joined
982 2013-09-06 19:13:10 <jgarzik> indeed
983 2013-09-06 19:13:27 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
984 2013-09-06 19:13:57 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, otoh i could set it up on an ovh server w/ "unlimited" bandwidth
985 2013-09-06 19:15:54 <phantomcircuit> now to hack this raspian image to start sshd by default and set a password
986 2013-09-06 19:16:06 <phantomcircuit> rasbian
987 2013-09-06 19:18:37 <jgarzik> POST /rest/headers/locator { body: text/plain list of hashes plus hashstop, as } returns text/plain list of (height, hash) pairs.
988 2013-09-06 19:18:56 <jgarzik> GET /rest/block/$hash.dat returns binary block, as per https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2844
989 2013-09-06 19:18:59 CryptoBuck has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
990 2013-09-06 19:19:16 <jgarzik> and I guess we need a POST /rest/tx/submit tap
991 2013-09-06 19:19:43 CryptoBuck has joined
992 2013-09-06 19:20:18 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ew protocol is ew
993 2013-09-06 19:20:41 <phantomcircuit> $hash.dat
994 2013-09-06 19:20:42 <phantomcircuit> really
995 2013-09-06 19:20:48 <phantomcircuit> /rest/block/$hash
996 2013-09-06 19:21:05 mortikia has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
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998 2013-09-06 19:21:55 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, the thought was that accused file extension scheme like that helps with really stupid http agents' file download processes
999 2013-09-06 19:22:00 <jgarzik> *accursed
1000 2013-09-06 19:22:25 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, as you can see, the pull req produces multiple formats for any given block
1001 2013-09-06 19:22:34 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: the only UA I'm aware of that cares about extension is IE
1002 2013-09-06 19:22:52 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, hmm
1003 2013-09-06 19:24:19 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i guess it could be worse
1004 2013-09-06 19:24:33 <phantomcircuit> the output could be dependent on the Accept header
1005 2013-09-06 19:24:42 <phantomcircuit> *cough* fucking dwolla *cough*
1006 2013-09-06 19:26:33 <sipa> runeks: the chance of not being able to interpret a random 32-byte sequence as a private key, is around 1 in 2**128
1007 2013-09-06 19:26:55 <sipa> bah, using an accept header is ugly
1008 2013-09-06 19:27:16 <sipa> it means you can't just use a url to point to a particular format
1009 2013-09-06 19:27:21 <runeks> sipa: I figured it was small.
1010 2013-09-06 19:28:29 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1011 2013-09-06 19:28:38 <sipa> but it's very easy to check
1012 2013-09-06 19:28:54 <sipa> bitcoin's key.cpp has an inline function to do afaik
1013 2013-09-06 19:29:00 ericmuyser has joined
1014 2013-09-06 19:29:02 <sipa> without calling openssl
1015 2013-09-06 19:30:35 <phantomcircuit> lol
1016 2013-09-06 19:30:41 <runeks> But if we're doing the multiplication anyway, why check it?
1017 2013-09-06 19:31:36 <sipa> the point is thatto *generate* a key you don't need to multiply
1018 2013-09-06 19:31:48 <sipa> to compute the corresponding pubkey, you do
1019 2013-09-06 19:32:17 <phantomcircuit> runeks, because we're trying to avoid doing the multiplication if it's for sure going to fail
1020 2013-09-06 19:32:39 <sipa> from a practical point of view, it will never fail
1021 2013-09-06 19:32:52 <sipa> where never is defined as less than 1 in 2**80
1022 2013-09-06 19:32:57 <runeks> sipa: So why the added code?
1023 2013-09-06 19:33:15 <sipa> to be able to geet rid of openssl :)
1024 2013-09-06 19:33:19 <phantomcircuit> hehe
1025 2013-09-06 19:33:20 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1026 2013-09-06 19:34:18 sserrano44 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1027 2013-09-06 19:34:19 <runeks> Sensible :)
1028 2013-09-06 19:34:52 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: sipa: that's exactly what the Accept header exists for
1029 2013-09-06 19:35:16 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, shit is so annoying though
1030 2013-09-06 19:35:17 <sipa> imo, no
1031 2013-09-06 19:35:27 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, especially since with dwolla it's undocumented
1032 2013-09-06 19:35:30 <phantomcircuit> which is just
1033 2013-09-06 19:35:31 <phantomcircuit> >.>
1034 2013-09-06 19:35:37 <sipa> it's for setting encodings that data interpretes by the browser are acceted
1035 2013-09-06 19:35:55 <phantomcircuit> sipa, that's Accept-Encoding
1036 2013-09-06 19:36:00 <Luke-Jr> ^
1037 2013-09-06 19:36:04 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
1038 2013-09-06 19:36:13 <phantomcircuit> Accept is in fact for selecting the mime type you want to receive
1039 2013-09-06 19:36:20 <phantomcircuit> it is however also super stupid annoying
1040 2013-09-06 19:36:28 <sipa> indeed
1041 2013-09-06 19:36:30 <phantomcircuit> which is why most browsers always include */*
1042 2013-09-06 19:36:52 <sipa> if you cannot have a url pointing to a spexific format, it's useless imho
1043 2013-09-06 19:37:06 <phantomcircuit> so it's basically ~60 bytes in every http request that's useless
1044 2013-09-06 19:37:09 sserrano44 has joined
1045 2013-09-06 19:37:31 patcon has joined
1046 2013-09-06 19:37:49 <phantomcircuit> unfortunately some very stupid security "appliances" have decided that if you dont supply an Accept header then you're a obt
1047 2013-09-06 19:37:52 <phantomcircuit> bot*
1048 2013-09-06 19:37:58 <phantomcircuit> so it's no longer optional
1049 2013-09-06 19:38:45 cads has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1050 2013-09-06 19:38:55 <sipa> perhaps you can have a generic link, which uses that header to figure out what to.serve
1051 2013-09-06 19:39:04 cads has joined
1052 2013-09-06 19:39:08 <sipa> but i doubt it will be used
1053 2013-09-06 19:39:54 asuk has quit ()
1054 2013-09-06 19:39:59 <sipa> also, the mime-type should be application/x-bitcoin-block or so, it's the encoding that changes
1055 2013-09-06 19:41:22 <Luke-Jr> sipa: in the case of a mere encoding change, it's using Accept-Encoding: hex
1056 2013-09-06 19:41:37 <phantomcircuit> sipa, for the binary blockchain data then it should be application/x-bitcoin-block
1057 2013-09-06 19:41:49 <sipa> which is equally useless, as it's not the browser interpreting it
1058 2013-09-06 19:41:50 ticean has joined
1059 2013-09-06 19:41:51 <phantomcircuit> if it's returning json it should be json
1060 2013-09-06 19:42:31 avyd has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1061 2013-09-06 19:42:34 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1062 2013-09-06 19:42:36 <sipa> anyway, i'm a fan of using the extension to set the format
1063 2013-09-06 19:43:13 <sipa> it's user friendly for hymans, and just as easy to set for automated code
1064 2013-09-06 19:43:26 <sipa> humans
1065 2013-09-06 19:43:36 bmcgee has joined
1066 2013-09-06 19:44:02 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ahahahaha
1067 2013-09-06 19:44:34 <sipa> i don't see what's funny
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1072 2013-09-06 19:49:34 <jgarzik> "user friendly for hymans" perhaps
1073 2013-09-06 19:49:41 <phantomcircuit> hilarious
1074 2013-09-06 19:49:47 <phantomcircuit> also i am 14
1075 2013-09-06 19:50:18 <sipa> ?
1076 2013-09-06 19:50:30 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit, you're 14?
1077 2013-09-06 19:50:41 <phantomcircuit> no i.... yeah nvm
1078 2013-09-06 19:50:44 <TheLordOfTime> :P
1079 2013-09-06 19:55:25 <Luke-Jr> lol
1080 2013-09-06 19:56:02 uinogota has joined
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1091 2013-09-06 20:13:22 <jgarzik> oh, on the NSA, I had not thought of this, before: NSA hires people to work undercover at Google/MSFT/etc., giving them access without the companies even knowing.
1092 2013-09-06 20:13:53 <jgarzik> (no proof, but it is a popular supposition as of 24 hours ago)
1093 2013-09-06 20:13:54 <Diablo-D3> that'd be illegal
1094 2013-09-06 20:13:55 <Diablo-D3> but w/e
1095 2013-09-06 20:14:01 <Diablo-D3> thats never stopped the NSA
1096 2013-09-06 20:14:21 <jgarzik> illegal for the CIA. NSA might argue (internally, in classified FISA docs) differently.
1097 2013-09-06 20:14:31 normanrichards has joined
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1099 2013-09-06 20:14:36 <edcba> jgarzik: are you naive ? :)
1100 2013-09-06 20:15:35 <jgarzik> It makes sense, just never gave it much thought before. Too many other things to think about ;p
1101 2013-09-06 20:15:48 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I made that argument in the middle of this message: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.governance/maxwell/mozilla.governance/tMt7-amcKpk/xp3Ij0CaoXcJ
1102 2013-09-06 20:16:22 <edcba> anyway what is illegal in US may be legal elsewhere
1103 2013-09-06 20:16:48 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: in particular, one thought there is that _even if_ it were unlawful for $agency to do that, because they did it as part of their job they would enjoy qualified immunity.
1104 2013-09-06 20:17:14 <jgarzik> edcba, oh indeed
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1111 2013-09-06 20:29:06 <dansmithbtc2> is it possible to use a custom RNG when generating new btc addresses, rather than relying on windows' NSA-approved RNG?
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1115 2013-09-06 20:35:53 <helo> no
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1118 2013-09-06 20:36:31 <Luke-Jr> dansmithbtc2: pretty sure we already do
1119 2013-09-06 20:36:41 <Luke-Jr> (it uses Windows-sourced entropy, but not ONLY that)
1120 2013-09-06 20:37:21 <lianj> you mean it seeds the prng differently but still uses it?
1121 2013-09-06 20:38:12 * phantomcircuit waves @ lianj
1122 2013-09-06 20:38:50 <lianj> o/
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1130 2013-09-06 20:50:02 <gmaxwell> dansmithbtc2: under windows several randomness sources are used (the os secure random source, a image of your screen at start, and cpu timings), and all feed into a seperate CSPRNG pool.
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1153 2013-09-06 21:14:03 <gavinandresen> I wonder if it would be a good idea to feed every valid 'inv' hash into the entropy pool; sort of mixing in other people's entropy....
1154 2013-09-06 21:14:20 cads has joined
1155 2013-09-06 21:15:00 <sipa> i'd use the nanosecond precision clock of message arrival
1156 2013-09-06 21:15:05 Azelphur has joined
1157 2013-09-06 21:15:15 <sipa> only sub-millisecond parts
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1159 2013-09-06 21:16:02 <gmaxwell> If we switch to BIP32 and determinstic DSA we won't need any randomness for important things anymore. :P
1160 2013-09-06 21:16:10 <gmaxwell> (at least not at runtime)
1161 2013-09-06 21:16:37 <gavinandresen> no, just at startup when initially generating a wallet, when there it is most likely to be very little entropy in the pool
1162 2013-09-06 21:17:17 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: but also no traffic.
1163 2013-09-06 21:17:27 <gavinandresen> yes
1164 2013-09-06 21:18:16 <gavinandresen> the lack-of-entropy-at-startup-in-a-VM is probably our biggest RNG problem right now.
1165 2013-09-06 21:18:19 <gmaxwell> I was going to suggest pulling in the entropy gathering stuff from http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/ ... but then I looked at the code.
1166 2013-09-06 21:19:01 <gmaxwell> for a GUI client we obviously just need to add a game of pong that you must play at first startup. :P
1167 2013-09-06 21:20:00 <gmaxwell> The code to havaged is ... uh.. they're doing some crazy hacks to try to prevent the compiler from optimizing out their do-nothing loops.
1168 2013-09-06 21:20:08 <gavinandresen> For the GUI, just a button you have to click to "Generate my Wallet Now" would help, so there is some delay in the wallet generation.
1169 2013-09-06 21:20:48 <gmaxwell> That might fit in pretty well with the multiple wallet interface changes?
1170 2013-09-06 21:20:52 <gavinandresen> Hmm. That and "born encrypted" wallets are a good reason to pull jgarzik's no-wallet patch, and start with no-wallet.
1171 2013-09-06 21:21:27 <warren> regarding no-wallet, is anyone reviewing it? I see only bike shedding in there. =)
1172 2013-09-06 21:21:38 zer0def has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1173 2013-09-06 21:21:54 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: hm. Well current wallets are nearly "born encrypted" if you encrypt right after creating them (since we flush the poolâ though this creates exposure for backup mistakes.. create ... backup .. encrypt.. screwed)
1174 2013-09-06 21:21:59 * warren updates comment in no wallet
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1176 2013-09-06 21:24:32 <gmaxwell> In any case, no wallet + multiwallet is basically the infrastructure changes to have a no-wallet by default.. and then have a chance of creating it once the system has randomized a bit.
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1178 2013-09-06 21:25:26 <gmaxwell> perhaps someone has done a timing noise loop dohicky which is morally similar to havaged but not so much code.
1179 2013-09-06 21:27:04 <gavinandresen> dan kaminsky has a 4-line javascript rngâ¦.
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1183 2013-09-06 21:30:33 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yea... just a simple timing loop. ... well we can read the tsc so we can do even better... I guess an argument there is that if you don't need _much_ entropy, really stupid timing will work.
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1189 2013-09-06 21:38:54 <gavinandresen> http://pastebin.com/jbCJqkZD <-- output from running 'estimatefees' overnight, with "reasonable" and "smallest to make it into a block" outputs
1190 2013-09-06 21:40:08 <gavinandresen> More shed-painting welcome: should "feeperbyte" change to "feeperkb" to match the settxfee units?
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1192 2013-09-06 21:44:27 <gmaxwell> I hope thats not returning 193 BTC per byte.
1193 2013-09-06 21:44:28 <gmaxwell> :P
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1195 2013-09-06 21:46:17 <gavinandresen> satoshis/byte, silly. Apparently the median transaction size is 258 bytes (258*193.79844961=50000)
1196 2013-09-06 21:46:54 <runeks> dansmithbtc2: You can use my excellent Python script to create a private key from throwing a dice, and import it into Bitcoin Qt :) https://github.com/runeksvendsen/btcdice
1197 2013-09-06 21:47:24 <runeks> Although now the NSA will just require that dice manufacturers put backdoors into their dices.
1198 2013-09-06 21:47:31 <gavinandresen> nsa runs the dice factoriesâ¦.
1199 2013-09-06 21:47:40 <runeks> They are always one step ahead!
1200 2013-09-06 21:47:49 <gavinandresen> (heard it on Alex Jones, must be true)
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1202 2013-09-06 21:48:22 <runeks> I would instruct people to carve their own dice out of wood, but I'm pretty sure the NSA also controls the wood factories.
1203 2013-09-06 21:48:37 <runeks> And carving instruments.
1204 2013-09-06 21:49:09 <gavinandresen> and gravity and the weather
1205 2013-09-06 21:49:49 <runeks> They're not doing too good of a job on that weather thing.
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1211 2013-09-06 21:55:45 <gavinandresen> http://pastebin.com/JGxevpiJ <-- I added an optional "true" param to getrawmempool to dump more than just txids (needed it for debugging, is probably useful enough to keep)
1212 2013-09-06 21:57:14 <jgarzik> rofl: "Current choice of storage in USA: SAN, NAS or NSA"
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1214 2013-09-06 21:59:07 <maaku> love the guy that called the NSA to get his deleted email back
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1219 2013-09-06 22:03:19 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: I wonder if it would make sense to just add that info into GBT?
1220 2013-09-06 22:06:11 <maaku> that looks very useful to have in GBT
1221 2013-09-06 22:06:34 * gavinandresen goes to look at getblocktemplate output....
1222 2013-09-06 22:07:10 <gavinandresen> ⦠so adding currentpriority/startingpriority to GBT output: sure
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1224 2013-09-06 22:07:40 <gavinandresen> GBT "depends" is an index into the GBT array?
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1227 2013-09-06 22:17:51 <phantomcircuit> maaku, personally i prefer the guy who requested exculpatory evidence from the NSA for his murder trial
1228 2013-09-06 22:18:10 <phantomcircuit> maaku, a letter "we cannot confirm nor deny" is just as good as a denial for him
1229 2013-09-06 22:18:17 <phantomcircuit> pretty clever attorney
1230 2013-09-06 22:19:10 <maaku> nice, i missed that
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1247 2013-09-06 22:31:47 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: correct
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1279 2013-09-06 23:11:34 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: thank you for the extra debug flag, +1 for inclusion in mainline
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1291 2013-09-06 23:35:29 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, any objection to going ahead and pulling autotools build?
1292 2013-09-06 23:35:31 <jgarzik> cfields, ^
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1294 2013-09-06 23:35:48 <jgarzik> work out the rest in tree? it looks like pull tester and other gadgets are fixed.
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1303 2013-09-06 23:46:04 <maaku> jgarzik: are the debian build scripts updated?
1304 2013-09-06 23:47:03 <maaku> that shouldn't hold up the pull-request though
1305 2013-09-06 23:47:29 <jgarzik> maaku, unknown. not a merge blocker if incomplete..
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1308 2013-09-06 23:48:41 <maaku> i was just grepping the patch and didnt see updates to the relevant files
1309 2013-09-06 23:48:43 <maaku> but adapting the debhelper scripts to use autotools is not going to be difficult
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1312 2013-09-06 23:49:46 <jgarzik> maaku, in general, I want it into the master branch, so that sector experts can begin working on issues just like this
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1314 2013-09-06 23:50:16 <jgarzik> build system rewrites on a side branch are often painful, and require lots of time just to keep updated
1315 2013-09-06 23:54:59 <gavinandresen> my only objection to pulling it now is I think cfields said he's away for the weekend
1316 2013-09-06 23:55:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, indeed
1317 2013-09-06 23:55:55 <gavinandresen> ⦠but so am I, so maybe now is the perfect time :)
1318 2013-09-06 23:56:03 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, I am confident we can figure out and fix anything in there
1319 2013-09-06 23:56:31 <gavinandresen> ok. There will never be a perfect time
1320 2013-09-06 23:57:25 <jgarzik> hooray!
1321 2013-09-06 23:57:41 <jgarzik> I'll do a final test build off branch, then pull