1 2013-09-15 00:00:49 <kuzetsa> [14:33:08] <@gmaxwell> I've been seeing a lot of people reporting the time wrong warning. Doublec mentioned it a while back, it seems to me that there is some insane misbehavior on the network, and I'm wondering what the motivation is?
2 2013-09-15 00:00:50 <kuzetsa> [14:43:31] <@gmaxwell> e.g. one user just gave me a getpeerinfo that has a spread of 1379096587 - 1379079635 = 16952 seconds.
3 2013-09-15 00:00:57 <kuzetsa> like I said, 29 hours ago
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7 2013-09-15 00:05:13 <kuzetsa> sipa: also, looking at AddTimeData() in util.cpp there is a calculation which seems to look at minutes offset and then seems to assume things like "plus or minus 70 minutes will account for summer time, and up to a 10 minute variance"
8 2013-09-15 00:05:56 <kuzetsa> but I can only guess, as the reasons for the code: if (abs64(nMedian) < 70 * 60) generically says "// Only let other nodes change our time by so much" in commentary
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10 2013-09-15 00:07:17 <kuzetsa> and I had to infer that was minutes, because there's no commentary a few lines prior where the value was quantized to 60 second granularity without any comment explaining the operation
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14 2013-09-15 00:10:37 <kuzetsa> incidentally, gcc's non-optimization / implementation for mingw target does a bad job with int64 division... but for readability sake letting the divides be done using a more readable version is fine I guess (this bug was recently fixed in #cgminer-dev, but in that case it was being called millions of times per day & really added up to alot)
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17 2013-09-15 00:13:05 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: can you provide a reference/citation for this? sounds pretty weird that something so simple would work poorly
18 2013-09-15 00:13:57 <kuzetsa> Luke-Jr: we actually tested it / profiled the code and looked at CPU usage
19 2013-09-15 00:14:41 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: so nobody disassembled it to confirm?
20 2013-09-15 00:15:32 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: can you post a summary of what was found, or at least maybe an IRC log?
21 2013-09-15 00:17:23 <Luke-Jr> not sure it makes sense to workaround compiler bugs in any case - probably best to fix the compiler
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24 2013-09-15 00:21:13 <kuzetsa> http://pastebin.com/j6ErQxYw <-- #cgminer-dev log for luke, Paste expiration 1 hour (also contains a link for the commit in question)
25 2013-09-15 00:22:09 <kuzetsa> lldiv is a windows API (OS-level syscall to work around various compilers not doing a good job at optimization)
26 2013-09-15 00:23:50 <kuzetsa> I'll leave the details for how much more accurate the timing code is on this routine (and how much more efficient it is compared to using a 64 bit divide provided by gcc's mingw target)
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28 2013-09-15 00:24:08 <kuzetsa> like... I'll leave that for you to wonder about
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34 2013-09-15 00:33:51 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: that seems to just talk about a suspicion?
35 2013-09-15 00:34:12 btcbtc has quit (Quit: btcbtc)
36 2013-09-15 00:34:33 <Luke-Jr> using a syscall for lldiv sounds.. very odd
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41 2013-09-15 00:43:05 <TradeFortress> any way to reduce the frequency of wallet.dat flushes?
42 2013-09-15 00:43:18 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
43 2013-09-15 00:43:34 <kuzetsa> just log where we profiled the lldiv versus a "/" operator provided by gcc's mingw target... microsoft's optimized lldiv API routine exist isn't called by mingw. period.
44 2013-09-15 00:43:58 <kuzetsa> *exists for a reason, and isn't called by gcc mingw target.
45 2013-09-15 00:44:26 <kuzetsa> just test it in a loop if you don't believe that it works better than "/"
46 2013-09-15 00:44:55 btcbtc has joined
47 2013-09-15 00:45:37 <TradeFortress> Is it safe to reduce the frequency of wallet.dat flushes?
48 2013-09-15 00:45:48 one_zero has joined
49 2013-09-15 00:47:21 <gavinandresen> TradeFortress: if you are running with a UPS in an area that doesn't have prolonged power outages on a RAID-redundant filesystem⦠sure, should be safe.
50 2013-09-15 00:48:06 <TradeFortress> Thanks.
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57 2013-09-15 01:08:54 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: was this with current mingw64, or the older one that only supports 32-bit?
58 2013-09-15 01:09:09 <Luke-Jr> guess I can do a few tests myself
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64 2013-09-15 01:17:09 <TradeFortress> hmm
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66 2013-09-15 01:17:29 <TradeFortress> even after wallet flushing throttled, bitcoind still bursts to 100% cpu for a few seconds frequently
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68 2013-09-15 01:19:52 <gmaxwell> b< kuzetsa> incidentally, gcc's non-optimization / implementation for mingw target does a bad job with int64 division...
69 2013-09-15 01:19:59 <gmaxwell> ^ where do you need int64 division?
70 2013-09-15 01:20:15 <gmaxwell> esp division not by a constant?
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73 2013-09-15 01:23:17 <warren> grr... bitcoin-qt.pro is a bit confusing to modify
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75 2013-09-15 01:26:54 <TradeFortress> Anyway to find out what is causing the high CPU usage?
76 2013-09-15 01:27:49 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: -EINSUFFICENTINFORMATION
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78 2013-09-15 01:27:55 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: do you mean during syncup?
79 2013-09-15 01:28:12 <TradeFortress> gmaxwell, no, during "normal usage" / json-rpc calls
80 2013-09-15 01:28:25 <TradeFortress> I do not see anything particularly interesting in debug.log
81 2013-09-15 01:28:30 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: does your wallet contain a lot of unconfirmed coins?
82 2013-09-15 01:28:54 <gmaxwell> can you try running without a wallet to see if the issue is wallet related?
83 2013-09-15 01:29:03 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
84 2013-09-15 01:29:08 <TradeFortress> Not unconfirmed coins, but it does contain a significant amount of addresses and coins.
85 2013-09-15 01:29:17 <warren> TradeFortress: master?
86 2013-09-15 01:29:25 <warren> TradeFortress: phantomcircuit has two patches that boost wallet performance
87 2013-09-15 01:29:40 <TradeFortress> hmm, I'll have to convert my wallet.dat first
88 2013-09-15 01:30:14 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: Convert?
89 2013-09-15 01:30:17 <TradeFortress> It only bursts to 100% CPU for certain amounts of time.
90 2013-09-15 01:30:41 <warren> TradeFortress: you still have those addresses that are unable to be read by 0.8.x?
91 2013-09-15 01:30:44 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: is this when it's recieving a new block? Do you have incoming connections?
92 2013-09-15 01:30:57 <gmaxwell> wait. this is on an old version?
93 2013-09-15 01:31:01 <TradeFortress> warren, No, remember when master had a bug in it that made addresses unreadable?
94 2013-09-15 01:31:14 <warren> TradeFortress: yeah, did you migrate from those addresses?
95 2013-09-15 01:31:49 <TradeFortress> I'm using a patch that allows it to read those. With v0.8.4, I see "Error reading wallet database: CPrivKey pubkey inconsistency"
96 2013-09-15 01:32:16 <warren> TradeFortress: right, litecoin actually ships that in our 0.8.x
97 2013-09-15 01:32:40 <TradeFortress> gmaxwell, it happens when receiving a new block but that is expected. Yes, I am accepting incoming connections.
98 2013-09-15 01:33:20 <gmaxwell> not entirely expected, due to caching accepting a new block shouldn't be that much of a hit.
99 2013-09-15 01:33:24 Squidicuz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
100 2013-09-15 01:33:26 <gmaxwell> so you are running what version?
101 2013-09-15 01:33:51 Squidicuz has joined
102 2013-09-15 01:33:55 <gmaxwell> and I do not understand why you wrote "I'll have to convert my wallet.dat first"
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104 2013-09-15 01:34:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: i suppose he means fix the pubkey/privkey correspondence in it
105 2013-09-15 01:34:19 <TradeFortress> gmaxwell, the wallet.dat I have right now is unreadable on v0.8.4 / etc
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108 2013-09-15 01:34:45 <sipa> so what version are you running now?
109 2013-09-15 01:35:04 <TradeFortress> I'm running 0.8.3 with a patch that allows it to be read
110 2013-09-15 01:35:19 <sipa> such a patch should apply cleanly on 0.8.5
111 2013-09-15 01:35:28 <sipa> as the changes in .4 and .5 are very small
112 2013-09-15 01:35:36 <gmaxwell> I would suggest you turn off incoming connections if you plan on contiuning to run 0.8.3 for now.
113 2013-09-15 01:35:39 <sipa> ah, but you mean master
114 2013-09-15 01:35:40 <gmaxwell> But thats an aside.
115 2013-09-15 01:35:44 <sipa> master likely has larger changes
116 2013-09-15 01:36:13 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: in any case, are you able to try running without a wallet for a bit and see if the cpu spikes still happen? (I do not know what you use this node for)
117 2013-09-15 01:36:21 FabianB has joined
118 2013-09-15 01:36:29 <sipa> that'd be interesting indeed
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120 2013-09-15 01:37:10 <gmaxwell> alternatively, running without inbound connections would be interesting (and less disruptive than swapping out the wallet)
121 2013-09-15 01:37:14 <gmaxwell> (perhaps)
122 2013-09-15 01:37:17 <TradeFortress> I'll try both of them
123 2013-09-15 01:37:40 <gmaxwell> one at a time please. :P
124 2013-09-15 01:38:00 <TradeFortress> blocking port 8333 incoming should do?
125 2013-09-15 01:38:57 <gmaxwell> -listen=0 is probably better... assuming you already have incoming connections;
126 2013-09-15 01:39:09 <TradeFortress> Ok.
127 2013-09-15 01:39:51 <warren> TradeFortress: if you still have problems let me know, I'll make a bitcoin-0.8.5 for you with support for those addresses + huge wallet performance patches
128 2013-09-15 01:40:10 <warren> TradeFortress: we already are testing those backports in litecoin so it'll be easy for me
129 2013-09-15 01:40:54 <TradeFortress> warren, we are referring to the same issue right? the addresses were not from an ancient version of bitcoind, it's just corrupt due to a broken change in master
130 2013-09-15 01:41:12 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
131 2013-09-15 01:41:23 <warren> TradeFortress: yes, same issue
132 2013-09-15 01:41:31 <warren> TradeFortress: litecoin ships all that in our 0.8.x
133 2013-09-15 01:41:36 <gmaxwell> warren: why?
134 2013-09-15 01:42:01 <warren> gmaxwell: we were shipping the patches to allow drop-in replacement of secp256k1 for months now
135 2013-09-15 01:42:11 <gmaxwell> huh?
136 2013-09-15 01:42:44 <gmaxwell> How is that related?
137 2013-09-15 01:42:56 <warren> gmaxwell: master had a series of patches that refactored cprivkey stuff, introduced that non-backward compatible address issue that was later fixed in another patch
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142 2013-09-15 01:43:22 <warren> gmaxwell: we shipped those patches in 0.8.x because we had been shipping both openssl and secp256k1 builds for months
143 2013-09-15 01:43:57 <warren> gmaxwell: and after we realized it wasn't backward compatible, we just kept the master patches. not a big deal because we had no older 0.8 versions to worry about.
144 2013-09-15 01:43:58 <gmaxwell> oh because the secp256k1 patches were ontop of the cprivkey refactor?
145 2013-09-15 01:44:02 <warren> yes
146 2013-09-15 01:44:11 <gmaxwell> Okay, I understand now.
147 2013-09-15 01:44:38 <TradeFortress> disabling incoming connections does not help with the 100% cpu issue
148 2013-09-15 01:45:03 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: so you restarted with incoming connections disabled and you're still seeing new block unrelated cpu spikes?
149 2013-09-15 01:45:09 <TradeFortress> yes
150 2013-09-15 01:45:17 <gmaxwell> cool okay.
151 2013-09-15 01:45:27 <gmaxwell> how are you measuring the spikes btw?
152 2013-09-15 01:45:37 <TradeFortress> top
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154 2013-09-15 01:45:44 <warren> TradeFortress: how many addresses/tx are in that wallet?
155 2013-09-15 01:45:45 <gmaxwell> how often are they?
156 2013-09-15 01:46:33 <gmaxwell> (I'm asking so I can figure out how long I have to watch to know if I'm getting them too)
157 2013-09-15 01:46:49 <warren> TradeFortress: I didn't fully test backports of this yet, but there are three proposed huge wallet performance PR's. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2950 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2952 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2966
158 2013-09-15 01:48:05 <TradeFortress> I think the problem is with the lack of scalability for getbalance on a wallet with 8000 addresses
159 2013-09-15 01:48:16 <TradeFortress> doesn't happen with an empty wallet
160 2013-09-15 01:48:20 <sipa> the cpu spike is when you call getbalance?
161 2013-09-15 01:48:31 <gmaxwell> 8000 addresses shouldn't be a problem. Though getbalance does a lot of things.
162 2013-09-15 01:48:50 <sipa> it's the number of transactions that counts for getbalance
163 2013-09-15 01:49:16 <TradeFortress> with a lot of transactions.
164 2013-09-15 01:49:21 <gmaxwell> (this was also why I asked about unconfirmed transactions)
165 2013-09-15 01:49:38 <sipa> the cpu spike is when you call getbalance?
166 2013-09-15 01:49:48 <TradeFortress> sipa, yes, when it's called frequently
167 2013-09-15 01:49:58 <sipa> every time it's called?
168 2013-09-15 01:49:59 <TradeFortress> gmaxwell, There's not too many unconfirmed transactions.
169 2013-09-15 01:50:11 <sipa> or only when it's called in rapid succession?
170 2013-09-15 01:50:39 * sipa zZ
171 2013-09-15 01:50:46 <TradeFortress> sipa, I'm investigating it more.
172 2013-09-15 01:51:52 ralphtheninja has joined
173 2013-09-15 01:52:40 <TradeFortress> Is it normal to see "CWalletTx::GetAmounts: Unknown transaction type found, txid 3a3d980ea453dde11e9b7954ef2882d6888013e8b7e3d69a399cd373bbbdc378
174 2013-09-15 01:52:40 <TradeFortress> " in response to a getbalance call?
175 2013-09-15 01:52:43 <TradeFortress> (in debug.log)
176 2013-09-15 01:53:23 <TradeFortress> I'm guessing it is, looks like p2pool
177 2013-09-15 01:56:55 <TradeFortress> sipa, without getbalance it's at 1%, with a getbalance it spikes to 34% (according to top) for a second.
178 2013-09-15 01:57:09 <TradeFortress> so multiple getbalances would push it to 100%.
179 2013-09-15 01:58:11 <gmaxwell> TradeFortress: I've gotten that message during rescan in my own wallet that has some crazy stuff in it.
180 2013-09-15 01:58:17 <gmaxwell> But I do not get it on getbalance.
181 2013-09-15 01:58:30 <gmaxwell> though perhaps if I had some unconfirmed crazy stuff in my wallet I would.
182 2013-09-15 01:59:12 <TradeFortress> There are 21 unconfirmed TXes.
183 2013-09-15 02:02:47 <gmaxwell> The really expensive case is when there is a chain of unconfirmed transactions.
184 2013-09-15 02:04:16 <TradeFortress> A chain as in unconfirmed txes that spends unconfirmed coins, or?
185 2013-09-15 02:04:49 <gmaxwell> right.
186 2013-09-15 02:04:52 <warren> anyone familiar with how to modify bitcoin-qt.pro to build one .cpp file with -msse2? hmmm
187 2013-09-15 02:05:41 <TradeFortress> I don't think that is what's happening here.
188 2013-09-15 02:07:25 btcbtc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
189 2013-09-15 02:15:53 <TradeFortress> At what number of transactions should getbalance be slowing down?
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198 2013-09-15 02:36:59 <kuzetsa> gmaxwell: AddTimeData() ... int64 nOffsetSample ... more than one printf debug or logging line contains: "nOffsetSample/60" <--- so probably not an issue really. I wasn't paying attention & the code in question isn't called very often (and seems to be debug / logging related)
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201 2013-09-15 02:44:50 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: ironically, my benchmark found that WINE performs int64_t division faster than native Linux!
202 2013-09-15 02:45:14 <Luke-Jr> with -O0
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205 2013-09-15 02:49:47 <kuzetsa> that's not really a useful benchmark
206 2013-09-15 02:50:14 <Luke-Jr> and why not?
207 2013-09-15 02:50:25 <kuzetsa> because wine was clean room reverse engineered
208 2013-09-15 02:50:27 <Luke-Jr> â¦
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210 2013-09-15 02:50:35 <Luke-Jr> WINE isn't related
211 2013-09-15 02:50:41 <Luke-Jr> it's just loading the program
212 2013-09-15 02:50:49 <Luke-Jr> the program itself runs exactly like it would in Windows
213 2013-09-15 02:50:59 <Luke-Jr> it's not like there's any translation involved in dividing
214 2013-09-15 02:51:01 <kuzetsa> no, it doesn't
215 2013-09-15 02:51:08 <Luke-Jr> for this it does
216 2013-09-15 02:51:12 <kuzetsa> it's quite common for benchmarks on wine to run better than on native windows
217 2013-09-15 02:52:05 <Luke-Jr> this is a simple division operator
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219 2013-09-15 02:52:12 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't use any windows API calls at all
220 2013-09-15 02:53:23 <kuzetsa> if you're not testing the behavior & profiling it on an actual windows machine on bare metal hardware, don't bother claiming you did a benchmark based on real-world usage scenarios
221 2013-09-15 02:53:36 <kuzetsa> wine / VM is not the same thing
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223 2013-09-15 02:53:49 <kuzetsa> it really doesn't matter for this anyway
224 2013-09-15 02:54:03 <kuzetsa> it's not called often enough for the increased performance to matter
225 2013-09-15 02:54:14 <Luke-Jr> whatever, you're obviously completely wrong about this and I don't care
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227 2013-09-15 02:54:48 <kuzetsa> I just helped con fix the bug in implementation. I'm not the one who discovered it or did the profiling.
228 2013-09-15 02:55:16 <Luke-Jr> it wouldn't be the first time con has fixed non-bugs
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230 2013-09-15 02:56:24 <kuzetsa> 15ms timing granularity VS sub-microsecond is an actual bug, all I did was help come up with an efficient way to rebase the syscall to posix-style format :P
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232 2013-09-15 02:58:03 <Luke-Jr> meh, for timing QueryPerformanceCounter :P
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236 2013-09-15 03:03:16 <warren> hmm, does bitcoin-qt.pro and qmake have anything to do with the src/makefile.*?
237 2013-09-15 03:03:19 <warren> entirely separate right?
238 2013-09-15 03:09:12 <Luke-Jr> right
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249 2013-09-15 03:38:00 <Luke-Jr> According to https://howsecureismypassword.net/ , the password "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" would take 4 trillion years to crack.
250 2013-09-15 03:38:02 <Luke-Jr> <.<
251 2013-09-15 03:40:38 <gmaxwell> blockchain.info claims "It would take a desktop PC About 65 trillion years to hack your password"
252 2013-09-15 03:41:21 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
253 2013-09-15 03:41:51 <gmaxwell> way more secure than qwertyqwerty! which it says would take a hundred thousand years to crack.
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255 2013-09-15 03:42:54 <Luke-Jr> haha
256 2013-09-15 03:43:34 <gmaxwell> all these things way underestimate the speed of password crackers and way overestimate the entropy of strings users actually produce.
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276 2013-09-15 04:55:11 <hydromet> gavinandersen: I have apparently succeeded in getting Bitcoin-Qt.app to build on my Mac running OS X 10.8.4
277 2013-09-15 04:55:37 <hydromet> but with a possible caveat
278 2013-09-15 04:55:54 <hydromet> in that the only way I could do so was with -> make deploy
279 2013-09-15 04:56:25 <hydromet> and make deploy has issues on my system (it want to create a .dmg file but fails) ... this is ok, I don't want a .dmg file
280 2013-09-15 04:56:52 <hydromet> so I end up with Bitcoin-Qt.app in dist/
281 2013-09-15 04:57:04 <hydromet> but not in the root source directory
282 2013-09-15 04:57:06 fanquake has joined
283 2013-09-15 04:57:22 <hydromet> fanquake: nice to see you here
284 2013-09-15 04:57:55 <fanquake> hey hydromet
285 2013-09-15 04:58:06 <hydromet> fanquake: yesterday I think you said for building Bitcoin-Qt.app on OS X, it was correct to use ...
286 2013-09-15 04:58:07 <hydromet> ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
287 2013-09-15 04:58:23 <fanquake> Correct
288 2013-09-15 04:58:33 <hydromet> in doing so I was unable to generate an actual Bitcoin-Qt.app on my system (OS X 10.8.4)
289 2013-09-15 04:58:42 <hydromet> so I tried sipa's suggestion of following that up with ...
290 2013-09-15 04:58:44 <hydromet> make deploy
291 2013-09-15 04:58:56 <hydromet> but make deploy wants to build a .dmg file and fails to do so
292 2013-09-15 04:59:07 <hydromet> however, I am left with dist/Bitcoin-Qt.app
293 2013-09-15 04:59:29 <hydromet> do you think its safe to run dist/Bitcoin-Qt.app ?
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295 2013-09-15 05:00:06 <hydromet> fanquake: how did you end up getting Bitcoin-Qt.app to generate on your Mac?
296 2013-09-15 05:00:49 <fanquake> hydromet .When you do /autogen.sh && ./configure && make, do you get a corrupted .app, or no .app at all?
297 2013-09-15 05:00:57 <hydromet> no .app at all
298 2013-09-15 05:01:29 <hydromet> fanquake: and this is all from the latest Master (with autotools etc.)
299 2013-09-15 05:01:58 <hydromet> fanquake: I have Qt-4 installed on my machine via MacPorts (paralleling Gavin)
300 2013-09-15 05:02:23 <fanquake> Check in your config.log, it should be in the bitcoin dir
301 2013-09-15 05:03:39 <hydromet> fanquake: what should I be looking for in config.log?
302 2013-09-15 05:04:43 <hydromet> fanquake: btw, before make deploy, I do get a binary executable named "bitcoin-qt" in src/qt
303 2013-09-15 05:05:22 <hydromet> fanquake: likewise I get bitcoind binary executable to build no problem in src/
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305 2013-09-15 05:06:22 <hydromet> fanquake: on your Mac, can you check to see if you have appscript installed such as /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/appscript-1.0.1-py2.7-macosx-10.7-intel.egg
306 2013-09-15 05:06:42 <hydromet> Gavin mentioned earlier today he has that file (albeit its for OS X 10.7 aka "Lion")
307 2013-09-15 05:07:01 chrisberkhout has joined
308 2013-09-15 05:07:05 <hydromet> fanquake: are you running OS X 10.8.x?
309 2013-09-15 05:07:41 <fanquake> hydromet yep, 10.8.4
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312 2013-09-15 05:08:32 <hydromet> fanquake: so you have no problems building Bitcoin-Qt.app straight out of Master with autotools?
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316 2013-09-15 05:09:47 <fanquake> hydromet, I can build a .app, but with it's corrupted at the moment.
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318 2013-09-15 05:10:27 <hydromet> fanquake: sigh, sorry to learn this ... I wonder how it became corrupted?
319 2013-09-15 05:10:54 <fanquake> It's just because it can't find the bdb library
320 2013-09-15 05:11:14 <hydromet> are you using brew?
321 2013-09-15 05:11:20 <fanquake> Yea
322 2013-09-15 05:11:40 <hydromet> I wish I could help - I'm using MacPorts (paralleling Gavin)
323 2013-09-15 05:12:20 <fanquake> I'll take a look at it again this arvo, should be able to fix it up.
324 2013-09-15 05:14:07 <hydromet> fanquake: my intuition is that there could be problems down the road for OS X and Bitcoin-Qt (concerns about Qt-4 being maintained as new OS X systems come out) ... we're a month or so away from OS X 10.9 release from Apple
325 2013-09-15 05:14:36 <hydromet> fanquake: there might be maintenance issues, regarding Qt-4 and OS X 10.9
326 2013-09-15 05:14:42 <fanquake> hydromet, I just install the app script needed for make deploy, and it builds a perfectly good .dmg, and the .app runs fine.
327 2013-09-15 05:14:46 <fanquake> *installed
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329 2013-09-15 05:15:14 <hydromet> fanquake: to install appscript you ran easy_install ?
330 2013-09-15 05:15:23 <fanquake> yep
331 2013-09-15 05:15:46 <hydromet> fanquake: what about python on your system, are you using Apple's included python or Brew installed python?
332 2013-09-15 05:16:14 <fanquake> Brew Python
333 2013-09-15 05:16:15 <hydromet> fanquake: I ask because the mac deploy script is a python script which imports appscript
334 2013-09-15 05:16:33 <hydromet> interesting
335 2013-09-15 05:17:05 <hydromet> fanquake after installing appscript you ran "make deploy" or only "./autogen.sh && ./configure && make" ?
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337 2013-09-15 05:18:12 <fanquake> I just ran ./autogen.sh && ./configure, then make deploy
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344 2013-09-15 05:43:42 <hydromet> fanquake: glad you got yours to work, it didn't help me to run easy_install
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347 2013-09-15 05:44:21 <hydromet> make deploy complains as in:
348 2013-09-15 05:44:21 owowo has quit (Quit: dead)
349 2013-09-15 05:44:39 <hydromet> Processing libtiff.5.dylib ...
350 2013-09-15 05:44:39 chrisberkhout has quit (Quit: chrisberkhout)
351 2013-09-15 05:44:48 <hydromet> install_name_tool: changing install names or rpaths can't be redone for: dist/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/Frameworks/libtiff.5.dylib (for architecture x86_64) because larger updated load commands do not fit (the program must be relinked, and you may need to use -headerpad or -headerpad_max_install_names)
352 2013-09-15 05:45:16 <fanquake> If you already had the app script in place, easy install shouldn't have done much. You wouldn't have be able to get to building the dmg with said script.
353 2013-09-15 05:45:21 <fanquake> *without
354 2013-09-15 05:46:09 <hydromet> fanquake: I was not able to build the .dmg
355 2013-09-15 05:46:25 <hydromet> this is nuts
356 2013-09-15 05:47:24 <hydromet> I have no idea how Gavin et al have been able to build on OS X ... good luck once Bitcoin 0.9 becomes available and autotools are required
357 2013-09-15 05:47:55 <hydromet> fanquake: I might see if I can simply build the 0.8.5 branch which does not require autotools (but try to use Qt-4 instead of Qt-5)
358 2013-09-15 05:48:53 <gmaxwell> the person who did most of the autotools work is primarly on OSX. ... I suspect that there is just something obvious you're missing.
359 2013-09-15 05:49:16 <gmaxwell> hopefully you'll hang around and get it figured out so we can make sure it's clear in the documentation.
360 2013-09-15 05:49:30 <hydromet> gmaxwell: I'm not about to give up :-)
361 2013-09-15 05:49:48 <hydromet> gmaxwell: I will definitely help out
362 2013-09-15 05:50:07 <hydromet> is the person who did most of the autotools work wumpus?
363 2013-09-15 05:50:59 <gmaxwell> no, it was cfields / theuni
364 2013-09-15 05:51:01 <fanquake> hydromet you should be able to build the 0.8.5 branch just fine
365 2013-09-15 05:53:01 <hydromet> fanquake: I had problems with 0.8.5 and Qt-5 yesterday, but now I have Qt-4 installed (as a MacPort similar to Gavin) I am crossing my fingers it will work
366 2013-09-15 05:54:16 <hydromet> gmaxwell: I should probably get cfields and theuni some feedback, perhaps best via email then
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369 2013-09-15 05:54:50 <gmaxwell> cfields == theuni
370 2013-09-15 05:55:05 <gmaxwell> But yes, talking with him will be helpful.
371 2013-09-15 05:55:17 <hydromet> oops
372 2013-09-15 05:55:52 <hydromet> I didn't realize he/she is both
373 2013-09-15 05:55:58 <hydromet> he
374 2013-09-15 05:58:34 <fanquake> hydromet in regards to your make deploy error, it looks like it could be related to building for >= osx 10.6
375 2013-09-15 05:58:56 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
376 2013-09-15 06:02:02 <hydromet> fanquake: hmm ... I guess so ... make deploy seems to have a problem with my having libtiff and libjpeg installed as a MacPort (something to that effect if I'm parsing the errors correctly)
377 2013-09-15 06:03:15 <fanquake> hydromet see https://trac.macports.org/ticket/39221
378 2013-09-15 06:04:20 <hydromet> gmaxwell: one thing about me, I don't give up ... and I emphatically believe bitcoin is massively important to the world
379 2013-09-15 06:05:16 CodeShark has joined
380 2013-09-15 06:05:34 <hydromet> fanquake: you are awesome! thank you, that looks like an excellent thread to read!
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383 2013-09-15 06:07:37 <fanquake> hydromet try port -ns upgrade --force tiff
384 2013-09-15 06:08:28 <hydromet> fanquake: that's exactly what I was thinking
385 2013-09-15 06:10:02 <hydromet> fanquake: I just noticed my tiff libraries in MacPorts are from February of this year so it could very well be that the upgrade is required
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388 2013-09-15 06:16:58 <hydromet> fanquake: I have installed (via MacPorts) qt4-mac but not qt4-creator-mac
389 2013-09-15 06:17:05 <hydromet> would that matter?
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391 2013-09-15 06:19:20 <fanquake> Not entirely sure, but I don't think so, have you rebuilt libtiff and tried make deploy again?
392 2013-09-15 06:20:42 <hydromet> fanquake: I'm about to rebuild tiff - I was first checking some things (I want to make sure there are not any unintended consequences of rebuilding tiff)
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396 2013-09-15 06:27:02 <hydromet> fanquake: I just rebuilt tiff ... now about to try again (crossing fingers)
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401 2013-09-15 06:32:51 <warren> amazingly how much pain it is to add a compile flag to one file but not others in a qmake pro file
402 2013-09-15 06:33:08 <warren> you need to define an entire QMAKE_EXTRA_COMPILERS
403 2013-09-15 06:33:12 <hydromet> fanquake: gmaxwell: SHAZAM! I go it to work!
404 2013-09-15 06:33:23 <hydromet> hurray!
405 2013-09-15 06:33:30 <fanquake> hydromet great
406 2013-09-15 06:33:48 <hydromet> this is really going to be helpful for others who are using the older tiff (from MacPorts)
407 2013-09-15 06:34:27 <hydromet> this makes me wonder when gavinandresen: had installed tiff from MacPorts on his system?
408 2013-09-15 06:35:50 <gavinandresen> tiff @4.0.3 graphics/tiff
409 2013-09-15 06:36:27 <hydromet> gavinandresen: tiff @4.0.3_1 (active)
410 2013-09-15 06:37:04 <hydromet> fanquake: thanks a TON for your help!
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416 2013-09-15 06:52:05 <numismatics> osx bitcoin-qt 0.8.5 seems copasetic now
417 2013-09-15 06:59:38 <nsh> nu
418 2013-09-15 07:01:45 <hydromet> numismatics: did you build 0.8.5 from source?
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420 2013-09-15 07:03:02 <hydromet> gavinandresen: the macports tiff versioning nuance is quite important - there might be quite a few people who have the older version, so it will be good to get this in the documentation for 0.9
421 2013-09-15 07:03:53 <hydromet> I may rebuild my ports that depend on the tiff port as noted by the forced upgrade this warning
422 2013-09-15 07:03:57 <hydromet> Warning: Uninstall forced. Proceeding despite dependencies.
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451 2013-09-15 08:16:48 <hydromet> gavinandresen: you should be able to remove /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/appscript-1.0.1-py2.7-macosx-10.7-intel.egg and use the MacPorts for example ...
452 2013-09-15 08:17:06 <hydromet> sudo port install py27-appscript
453 2013-09-15 08:17:46 <hydromet> I just tested building Master with py27-appscript from MacPorts and had no problems
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455 2013-09-15 08:18:23 <hydromet> given you use MacPorts, it probably make things a bit cleaner to stick with py27-appscript
456 2013-09-15 08:20:02 <hydromet> also you never know when Apple might have an update (such a security update) for OS X that could wipe out the contents of /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages
457 2013-09-15 08:21:23 <hydromet> unless its required for making distributions for the general public who may not have MacPorts installed
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490 2013-09-15 09:44:01 <hydromet> fanquake: are you still here?
491 2013-09-15 09:45:25 <hydromet> fanquake: I was thinking of being a little bit bold and upgrading my Mac to OS X 10.8.5 (a minor point update from Apple released a few days ago0
492 2013-09-15 09:45:41 <hydromet> and seeing how everything hangs together with Bitcoin-Qt on 10.8.5
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494 2013-09-15 09:48:18 <fanquake> I'll be doing the same shortly. Just don't want to restart right now.
495 2013-09-15 09:48:40 <hydromet> fanquake: how are you coming along with your install of Bitcon-Qt with brew?
496 2013-09-15 09:49:54 <hydromet> fanquake: I also do not like restarting my machine, check this out (my MacBook dev machine) ...
497 2013-09-15 09:49:56 <fanquake> Looking at that is still on the todo list
498 2013-09-15 09:49:57 <hydromet> 23:47 up 48 days, 1:03, 10 users, load averages: 1.94 1.82 1.67
499 2013-09-15 09:50:13 <hydromet> 48 days!
500 2013-09-15 09:50:31 <hydromet> lots of swapping out to vm though
501 2013-09-15 09:57:00 <fanquake> Pretty sure my build is sorted. Just installing Qt 5
502 2013-09-15 09:58:02 <hydromet> fanquake: are you building from master with autotools against Qt-5?
503 2013-09-15 09:58:05 has quit (Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|)
504 2013-09-15 10:00:42 <sipa> BlueMatt: present?
505 2013-09-15 10:00:49 <fanquake> hydromet WIll be in a second.
506 2013-09-15 10:04:12 <hydromet> fanquake: cool, it would be great to know how you managed to do this
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509 2013-09-15 10:15:23 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt ok, investigated a debug.log from pulltester a bit... seems i'm receiving orphan blocks; do you ever send blocks without them being requested? it seems there's getheaders support now, but i do receive headers which don't connect to the block tree...
510 2013-09-15 10:15:23 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
511 2013-09-15 10:17:03 <sipa> cfields: being able to run pulltester locally is very nice!
512 2013-09-15 10:17:21 <CodeShark> run pulltester locally? how?!?!
513 2013-09-15 10:17:24 <hydromet> fanquake: and gavinandresen: interesting observation - I ripped out my MacPorts with dependencies on tiff (including qt4-mac), then I ripped out tiff ... then reinstalled
514 2013-09-15 10:17:47 <hydromet> I then re-installed tiff and only one dependency required for Bitcoin-Qt with autotools: qt4-mac
515 2013-09-15 10:18:04 <sipa> CodeShark: put a jar somewhere, ./configure --with-comparison-tool=/tmp/BitcoindComparisonTool.jar, and then just make check
516 2013-09-15 10:18:19 <hydromet> it turns out that *after* re-installing, I had to once again run this sudo port -ns upgrade --force tiff
517 2013-09-15 10:18:58 <CodeShark> wow, we really went all out with the autotools stuff, didn't we?
518 2013-09-15 10:19:05 <CodeShark> is all this documented somewhere?
519 2013-09-15 10:19:07 <hydromet> fanquake: and gavinandresen: this is a weird anomaly with tiff and qt4-mac ... I predict problems downstream in the timeline due to this issue
520 2013-09-15 10:19:21 <sipa> CodeShark: it was just merged, documentation updates will follow, i'm told :)
521 2013-09-15 10:19:47 <sipa> CodeShark: technically i suppose i should say "run the bitcoinj comparison tool locally", as pulltester does more than that (like building under mingw)
522 2013-09-15 10:20:10 <hydromet> fanquake: and gavinandresen: the MacPorts community appears slow to work on Qt-5 as a MacPort ... only one guy and he might need some funding, maybe Bitcoin Foundation can help?
523 2013-09-15 10:20:46 <hydromet> Qt looks like a complex pain to deal with for cross platform GUI but its probably the best option out there
524 2013-09-15 10:21:13 <hydromet> at least for desktop/laptop OS
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526 2013-09-15 10:22:41 <CodeShark> compared to web-based stuff, I suppose it is somewhat complex - but compared to just about any other windowing toolkit out there, Qt is not only quite portable - it also integrates nicely with the native environment
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529 2013-09-15 10:25:23 <hydromet> CodeShark: good points
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531 2013-09-15 10:26:15 <hydromet> CodeShark: am somewhat concerned though about progress moving forward - Gavin reverted to Qt-4 on his Mac for OS X builds due to the move to using autotools in Master which will become a requirement in Bitcoin-Qt 0.9
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533 2013-09-15 10:26:37 <hydromet> CodeShark: because Qt-5 and autotools on OS X apparently don't play well together yet (needs addressing)
534 2013-09-15 10:26:51 <hydromet> CodeShark: but maybe fanquake: will have something to say about this?
535 2013-09-15 10:26:57 <sipa> hydromet: cfields has commented that he has a working qt5 branch, but it needs some tweaking still
536 2013-09-15 10:27:00 <sipa> hydromet: so i wouldn't worry
537 2013-09-15 10:31:51 <hydromet> sipa: I'm a worry wart when it comes to something as important as bitcoin
538 2013-09-15 10:31:53 Prattler has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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540 2013-09-15 10:32:28 <fanquake> hydromet I'd rather get my gitian building sorted than get to concerned over Qt 5
541 2013-09-15 10:32:46 <CodeShark> for bitcoin to survive, most important is that most verification/relay node implementations agree
542 2013-09-15 10:33:00 <CodeShark> as for GUI, anyone can write one for all I care
543 2013-09-15 10:33:23 Eiii has quit ()
544 2013-09-15 10:34:37 <CodeShark> in fact, competition is good :)
545 2013-09-15 10:34:55 <sipa> well, preferably it's a bit more than a gui
546 2013-09-15 10:34:56 <hydromet> CodeShark: I agree ... but the GUI is going to important to the end user who needs to be confident their GUI will help them manage their wallet
547 2013-09-15 10:35:12 <hydromet> CodeShark: in the virtual world, the GUI is the window onto the wallet
548 2013-09-15 10:35:23 <sipa> i mean... there are enough gui frontends for centralized wallets
549 2013-09-15 10:35:25 Prattler has joined
550 2013-09-15 10:35:37 <sipa> and making a working wallet is significantly harder than making a gui
551 2013-09-15 10:36:08 <hydromet> sipa: well, some people might not like centralized systems after the latest NSA / Snowden episodes
552 2013-09-15 10:37:07 <sipa> ok, very good
553 2013-09-15 10:37:29 <sipa> but i agree with CodeShark to an extent: bitcoin-qt as a wallet implementation isn't that important for the ecosystem
554 2013-09-15 10:38:29 <hydromet> sipa: that's reasonable / makes sense
555 2013-09-15 10:38:59 <sipa> however, since bitcoin-qt is the only wallet application with builtin full node, it does contribute to the network independently from its function as a wallet
556 2013-09-15 10:39:35 <sipa> i guess bitsofproof also qualifies, but it's not really an end-user application as far as i understand
557 2013-09-15 10:41:01 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure if any alternatives have a complete networking stack. (e.g. doesn't just depend on getting good results from dns seeds)
558 2013-09-15 10:41:22 <gmaxwell> Maybe genjix's software does.
559 2013-09-15 10:41:50 <CodeShark> wallet != GUI
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563 2013-09-15 10:42:41 <CodeShark> some wallets will be primarily used via GUI - but other wallets will be primarily used via API
564 2013-09-15 10:42:48 <sipa> sure
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599 2013-09-15 11:41:44 <Mqrius_> Eh, I updated to the Ubuntu PPA, which is 0.8.4, not 0.8.5 yet. Now it doesn't say that my blockchain is corrupt, but it does display a warning "Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade [etc]." It also refuses to download past 2 weeks ago.
600 2013-09-15 11:41:53 wei_ has joined
601 2013-09-15 11:41:56 <Mqrius_> Any suggestions?
602 2013-09-15 11:42:15 <sipa> anything in debug.log?
603 2013-09-15 11:42:35 <sipa> sounds like actual corruption
604 2013-09-15 11:43:25 da2ce7 is now known as 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|da2ce7
605 2013-09-15 11:43:56 <Mqrius_> sipa: A bunch of InvalidChainFound
606 2013-09-15 11:44:27 <sipa> can you find the first?
607 2013-09-15 11:45:46 <Mqrius_> Not sure if the log deletes old messages. The one at the top is at height 257704, but it says the current best is at height 254627
608 2013-09-15 11:46:39 <sipa> yes, so they've falled off
609 2013-09-15 11:46:41 <sipa> bummer
610 2013-09-15 11:46:45 <sipa> hardware/os?
611 2013-09-15 11:47:28 <Mqrius_> Ubuntu 12.04 iirc, on an acer aspire one
612 2013-09-15 11:47:47 <sipa> a -reindex will fix it
613 2013-09-15 11:47:59 <sipa> but that doesn't give us any idea of the reason...
614 2013-09-15 11:48:48 <Mqrius_> Could it be related to me trying to run the old version with checklevel=2? I did that after accepting re-downloading the blockchain and such
615 2013-09-15 11:48:50 <gmaxwell> you might want to -debug=1 -reindex so if it fails again you'll have more logs.
616 2013-09-15 11:50:40 <sipa> Mqrius_: no, that just reduces the integrity checks done at startup
617 2013-09-15 11:51:23 <Mqrius_> Yeah I figured as much. Oh well, I'll do a reindex with debug=1, and see what happens.
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704 2013-09-15 14:59:05 <ThomasV> how does bitcoind verifymessage handle unicode characters?
705 2013-09-15 14:59:44 <sipa> it encodes a byte sequence, really
706 2013-09-15 15:00:15 <sipa> i suppose utf-8 would be a reasonable assumption for character encoding
707 2013-09-15 15:00:18 Mqrius_ has left ("Leaving")
708 2013-09-15 15:00:55 <ThomasV> does bitcoin-qt pass a utf8 sequence to it?
709 2013-09-15 15:01:01 <Subo1977_> [WTS] BFL Jala 8.2 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bitcoin-Miner-Butterfly-Labs-Jalapeno-Asic-5-GHs-geflasht-auf-8-2-GH-IN-HAND-/290973968724?pt=DE_Computer_Sonstige&hash=item43bf666954 45 min to go
710 2013-09-15 15:01:44 <sipa> ThomasV: no idea about Qt
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713 2013-09-15 15:18:55 <nkuttler> hrm, can I get a list of transactions for a specific address through the API? can't find it
714 2013-09-15 15:19:13 <nkuttler> getreceivedbyaddress seems to return the sum?
715 2013-09-15 15:20:25 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
716 2013-09-15 15:22:42 <sipa> listreceivedbyaddress ?
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718 2013-09-15 15:23:15 <sipa> oh, no
719 2013-09-15 15:23:17 <nkuttler> sipa: ah, that's it.. was grepping for passed args
720 2013-09-15 15:23:19 <nkuttler> not?
721 2013-09-15 15:23:36 <sipa> listtransactions can filter by account, though
722 2013-09-15 15:23:40 <nkuttler> hm, right, no transaction id
723 2013-09-15 15:23:52 <nkuttler> sipa: that will only work for local accounts though, won't it?
724 2013-09-15 15:24:06 <sipa> yes, this is the wallet api
725 2013-09-15 15:24:11 <nkuttler> ok, thanks
726 2013-09-15 15:27:20 Mikej0h has joined
727 2013-09-15 15:27:28 <Mikej0h> heya!
728 2013-09-15 15:27:40 <Mikej0h> anybody has a clue howto run bitcoind as a windows service?
729 2013-09-15 15:28:12 <Mikej0h> already did it like this: C:\Services\bitcoin\daemon\bitcoind.exe -datadir="C:\Services\bitcoin-data" -server (in a service by sc create)
730 2013-09-15 15:28:35 <Mikej0h> but then got: The Bitcoin Server service failed to start due to the following error:
731 2013-09-15 15:28:35 <Mikej0h> The service did not respond to the start or control request in a timely fashion.
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737 2013-09-15 15:33:04 <michagogo> Mikej0h: It's not designed as a Windows Service
738 2013-09-15 15:33:23 <michagogo> And I think there's a certain interface that Services are supposed to have to talk to the OS
739 2013-09-15 15:33:24 <edcba> there is some program that can answers to service controller
740 2013-09-15 15:33:36 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
741 2013-09-15 15:33:39 <edcba> and then run your program
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744 2013-09-15 15:34:38 <edcba> http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/83272-how-to-run-a-program-as-a-service/ srvany
745 2013-09-15 15:35:07 <michagogo> http://rozanski.org.uk/software
746 2013-09-15 15:35:10 <michagogo> srvstart
747 2013-09-15 15:35:37 <michagogo> srvstart is better than srvany, according to Google
748 2013-09-15 15:35:43 <edcba> haha
749 2013-09-15 15:36:12 <edcba> it's open source at least
750 2013-09-15 15:36:19 <Mikej0h> michagogo, thanks
751 2013-09-15 15:36:40 <Mikej0h> although it would be better if the bitcoind incorporates the service methods
752 2013-09-15 15:36:51 <Mikej0h> (so you don't have to do this stuff)
753 2013-09-15 15:36:52 <Mikej0h> :)
754 2013-09-15 15:37:05 tsche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
755 2013-09-15 15:37:07 <Mikej0h> s/incorporates/implements
756 2013-09-15 15:38:09 jaekwon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
757 2013-09-15 15:38:18 <edcba> not many ppl use bitcoind on windows i guess
758 2013-09-15 15:38:34 <michagogo> Looks like for bitcoind, you'll need svcstart if you want to use it
759 2013-09-15 15:38:39 <michagogo> svcany will be bad
760 2013-09-15 15:38:52 <michagogo> Because svcany just kills the process on shutdown
761 2013-09-15 15:39:05 <Mikej0h> will look into that
762 2013-09-15 15:39:27 <michagogo> To safely shut down bitcoind and make sure you don't get any database corruption, you always want to stop it with the "stop" rpc
763 2013-09-15 15:39:55 <Mikej0h> edcba, because now you have to do all kinds of work arounds?
764 2013-09-15 15:40:05 <michagogo> http://rozanski.org.uk/services, 4.5.2
765 2013-09-15 15:40:16 <Mikej0h> probably now everybody starts it with a batch script, however that requires an active user session
766 2013-09-15 15:40:26 <Mikej0h> (interactive session)
767 2013-09-15 15:40:31 <sipa> i think most bitcoind's run on linux VPS'es
768 2013-09-15 15:40:33 <michagogo> Mikej0h: Well, it's not developed as a Windows Service
769 2013-09-15 15:40:50 <michagogo> It's designed as a cross-platform executable
770 2013-09-15 15:40:53 <Mikej0h> I know
771 2013-09-15 15:40:58 <Mikej0h> I understand where it comes from
772 2013-09-15 15:41:06 <sipa> patches welcome, i 'd say
773 2013-09-15 15:41:15 <sipa> if someone wants to improve the service behaviur on windows
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775 2013-09-15 15:41:29 <ThomasV> sipa: do you know how the message needs to be typed with bitcoind, on the command line? typing "N\xc3\xb8stdal" does not seem to work
776 2013-09-15 15:41:35 <Mikej0h> I would love to, but unfortunately I don't know C++
777 2013-09-15 15:41:39 <ThomasV> (verifymessage)
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779 2013-09-15 15:41:48 <sipa> ThomasV: in bash?
780 2013-09-15 15:41:51 <ThomasV> yes
781 2013-09-15 15:42:07 <sipa> $'N\xc3\xb8stdal'
782 2013-09-15 15:42:20 <sipa> but why would you sign such a message?
783 2013-09-15 15:42:26 <Mikej0h> well I could make a wrapper service in .NET ;)
784 2013-09-15 15:42:34 <ThomasV> sipa: thanks :)
785 2013-09-15 15:42:56 <ThomasV> sipa: because of this: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/223
786 2013-09-15 15:43:08 <Mikej0h> services like sabnzbd do the same
787 2013-09-15 15:43:09 <ThomasV> it works, ideed :)
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789 2013-09-15 15:43:45 <sipa> ah
790 2013-09-15 15:44:48 <edcba> yeah a service wrapper in .net should be quite easy
791 2013-09-15 15:46:14 <edcba> wait what corruption were you talking about ?
792 2013-09-15 15:47:02 <edcba> you can have a corrupted db when stopped at wrong time ??
793 2013-09-15 15:47:24 <Mikej0h> service stop just kills the process, instead of "gracefully shutdown"
794 2013-09-15 15:47:24 <Mikej0h> that would corrupt the db
795 2013-09-15 15:47:38 <Mikej0h> so with a wrapper you could sigterm it properly but executing a RPC command
796 2013-09-15 15:47:40 <edcba> why would the db corrpted ?
797 2013-09-15 15:47:48 <Mikej0h> s/but/by
798 2013-09-15 15:48:12 <sipa> edcba: it shouldn't, but apparently it does
799 2013-09-15 15:48:23 <edcba> still recoverable ?
800 2013-09-15 15:48:30 <sipa> reindex is always possible
801 2013-09-15 15:48:37 <Mikej0h> don't know michagogo refered to it
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808 2013-09-15 15:58:05 <michagogo> Mikej0h: svcstart can stop it by sending the stop command
809 2013-09-15 15:58:22 <michagogo> It's svcany that will just kill it on service stop
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856 2013-09-15 16:55:47 <jgarzik> hey
857 2013-09-15 16:55:57 <jgarzik> kudos to "BurtW" on the "NSA and ECC" forum thread
858 2013-09-15 16:56:03 DaQatz has joined
859 2013-09-15 16:56:12 <jgarzik> he is working via email, tracking down the people who authored our curve parameters
860 2013-09-15 16:56:58 zeddan81 has joined
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870 2013-09-15 17:03:16 <jgarzik> Jerry Solinas (sp?) responded to BurtW, redirecting the search from NIST to Certicom
871 2013-09-15 17:03:26 <jgarzik> (as we inferred independently anyway)
872 2013-09-15 17:05:08 davout has joined
873 2013-09-15 17:09:15 <justusranvier> Luke-Jr: * Failed Patch: 9999-sys_leveldb.patch
874 2013-09-15 17:11:43 <sipa> jgarzik: cool
875 2013-09-15 17:11:56 <sipa> jgarzik: i'd really like some explanation about that
876 2013-09-15 17:12:07 <sipa> though i'm not very worried
877 2013-09-15 17:12:27 CheckDavid has joined
878 2013-09-15 17:15:07 <Luke-Jr> justusranvier: expected
879 2013-09-15 17:19:31 <TheLordOfTime> there's no way to trace back an address to the IP that owns/generates it, correct?
880 2013-09-15 17:19:39 <TheLordOfTime> AIUI the system there's no system in place to trace that
881 2013-09-15 17:20:23 <Luke-Jr> TheLordOfTime: there's plenty of ways people could try to trace that, but nothing builtin
882 2013-09-15 17:20:40 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr, how would you be able to track an address back to the IP that owns it?
883 2013-09-15 17:21:03 <TheLordOfTime> AIUI the Internet, such things can be spoofed
884 2013-09-15 17:21:31 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
885 2013-09-15 17:21:42 <Luke-Jr> you can't easily spoof IPs with TCP..
886 2013-09-15 17:21:59 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr, it's the point of contention on an argument in -otc, that a single address can be traced back to a specific IP address
887 2013-09-15 17:22:17 <TheLordOfTime> so short of beating everyone arguing with the banstick, well...
888 2013-09-15 17:22:36 <Luke-Jr> O.o
889 2013-09-15 17:23:00 <Luke-Jr> very unreliably, at best
890 2013-09-15 17:23:01 <Luke-Jr> but I wouldn't bet on it being impossible
891 2013-09-15 17:23:01 <Luke-Jr> that's my point
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897 2013-09-15 17:33:07 <TheLordOfTime> Luke-Jr, true, however my point is if it's easily able to be done, or rather practically feasible to get a reliable IP trace. But, since the guy decided to mouth off in multiple channels and be an ass, he's banned.
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914 2013-09-15 17:56:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, it shouldnt ever send blocks until it gets a request
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918 2013-09-15 18:00:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: in terms of getting headers that connect to crap/dont connect, yea, I think that should happen, though I dont recall how I implemented it (probably incorrectly...)
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930 2013-09-15 18:26:01 <BlueMatt> 0.8.5 (finally) put on the ppa, sorry for the delay
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933 2013-09-15 18:28:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, and is getheaders implemented?
934 2013-09-15 18:29:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: sort of, I hacked it together in 15 minutes untested...since the only test was your code...
935 2013-09-15 18:29:28 <sipa> i haven't looked at it, but i would guess there's a bug in it
936 2013-09-15 18:29:36 <sipa> (or in my code...)
937 2013-09-15 18:29:48 <BlueMatt> well, there's a bug somewhere
938 2013-09-15 18:29:53 Egbrt has joined
939 2013-09-15 18:30:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: https://code.google.com/r/bluemattme-bitcoinj/source/detail?r=f499e2e8bc8b4fb9c122adfde3d3d38667fe1d92&name=blocktester
940 2013-09-15 18:30:22 <jcorgan> what is a reasonable maximum time to wait after receiving an inv on one connection to see if it arrives on another, before concluding that inv didn't propagate to that node
941 2013-09-15 18:30:29 <sipa> so what happens: you send an inv, i send a getheaders + getdata, you send headers and a block, but the headers do not attach to the header tree
942 2013-09-15 18:31:07 moarrrium has joined
943 2013-09-15 18:31:37 <sipa> and the block is considered an orphan
944 2013-09-15 18:31:42 <sipa> and discarded
945 2013-09-15 18:31:42 pooler_ has joined
946 2013-09-15 18:31:47 <sipa> after that, all tests fail
947 2013-09-15 18:31:59 <BlueMatt> do you have a log somewhere?
948 2013-09-15 18:32:14 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
949 2013-09-15 18:32:55 <sipa> i'm at the airport now, i'll go sit somewhere with my laptop soon
950 2013-09-15 18:34:09 <BlueMatt> ok, well Ill look at it and see if I can find anything obvious in bitcoindcomparisontool
951 2013-09-15 18:34:25 <jcorgan> in my instrumentation code, i note the first time of arrival of a specific inv on any connection, then accumulate arrival times for that same inv on other connections
952 2013-09-15 18:34:49 Tom_Soft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
953 2013-09-15 18:35:08 <jcorgan> a lot of the time it only shows up on a fraction of connections, so i'm trying to think of a reasonable time to stop waiting and push the data record into my stats collecting struct
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960 2013-09-15 18:39:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: does pulltester have the latest comparison tool?
961 2013-09-15 18:39:35 <BlueMatt> no
962 2013-09-15 18:40:04 <BlueMatt> its quite out-of-date iirc
963 2013-09-15 18:41:33 <jcorgan> aside from that, i'm curious what the expected behavior is for the fraction of connections one might expect a give inv to show up on
964 2013-09-15 18:41:41 <jcorgan> s/give/given/
965 2013-09-15 18:41:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: that patch always responds to getheaders with /only/ the header of the block requested, possibly not connecting to the chain
966 2013-09-15 18:42:09 <BlueMatt> which is probably the problem since that breaks spec, no?
967 2013-09-15 18:42:27 <sipa> indeed
968 2013-09-15 18:42:46 <BlueMatt> ok, well some of the test framework needs rewritten then
969 2013-09-15 18:42:48 normanrichards has quit ()
970 2013-09-15 18:43:10 <sipa> can't just send *all* headers insead of just the last one? :p
971 2013-09-15 18:43:34 <BlueMatt> the way its written it doesnt have headers until its processed the block list up to there
972 2013-09-15 18:43:50 <sipa> hmm
973 2013-09-15 18:44:00 <BlueMatt> probably just need to keep a header tree structure and send the set of headers from base to requested block whenever it gets a request for headers
974 2013-09-15 18:44:11 <sipa> it should be very similar to getblocks?
975 2013-09-15 18:44:21 <BlueMatt> getblocks always gets one block too
976 2013-09-15 18:44:21 <sipa> just with full headers ibstead of just hashes
977 2013-09-15 18:44:27 <sipa> oh
978 2013-09-15 18:44:34 <sipa> really?
979 2013-09-15 18:44:47 <BlueMatt> yea, well if you only ever send invs with one block it doesnt matter
980 2013-09-15 18:44:56 devDelay has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
981 2013-09-15 18:44:58 <BlueMatt> +/-
982 2013-09-15 18:45:01 <sipa> no no, not getdata
983 2013-09-15 18:45:10 <BlueMatt> oh, it doesnt respond to getblocks
984 2013-09-15 18:45:15 <sipa> ah :D
985 2013-09-15 18:46:44 jcorgan has quit (Quit: jcorgan)
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987 2013-09-15 18:51:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: anyway, when an inv is received, i ask for both headers leading up to it, and the block itself, so that all headers are known before the block
988 2013-09-15 18:51:34 Julius_129 has joined
989 2013-09-15 18:51:40 <sipa> and it can be stored instantly
990 2013-09-15 18:51:41 Julius129 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
991 2013-09-15 18:51:45 <sipa> so we never have orphans
992 2013-09-15 18:52:51 <BlueMatt> yep, makes sense, though there are tons of test-cases you should totally write for strange (read: long) chains that might trigger orphans and such
993 2013-09-15 18:54:52 <sipa> it's just an optimization
994 2013-09-15 18:55:06 <sipa> though you are of course right that test cases would be good
995 2013-09-15 18:55:20 docl has joined
996 2013-09-15 18:55:53 <sipa> but normally there is really only a headers-sync process, which is also used for initial sync
997 2013-09-15 18:58:20 daybyter has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
998 2013-09-15 18:59:55 <BlueMatt> makes sense...but the coverage on chain-download code used to be +/- 100% with bitcoind comparison tool, so more test-cases would be nice
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1003 2013-09-15 19:04:37 <sipa> BlueMatt: if i ever find time, i'll try to understand the tester code :)
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1006 2013-09-15 19:04:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: if I ever find time, Ill write more tests :)
1007 2013-09-15 19:04:59 <sipa> you're very right that we should aim for 100% code coverage her
1008 2013-09-15 19:05:11 <sipa> what are you doing now, actually? :p
1009 2013-09-15 19:06:24 <BlueMatt> at this very moment? researching the ohci 1394 spec...more generally? dealing with schoolwork+research+job interviews+trying to find free time
1010 2013-09-15 19:06:51 <sipa> haha :D
1011 2013-09-15 19:06:57 <sipa> right, school and stuff
1012 2013-09-15 19:07:48 jaekwon has joined
1013 2013-09-15 19:08:32 <BlueMatt> yea, two more years then masters and I can actually go do interesting things
1014 2013-09-15 19:09:53 <sipa> i'm sure you could go do interesting stuff right now too
1015 2013-09-15 19:10:01 robocoin has joined
1016 2013-09-15 19:10:03 <sipa> though i strongly advise getting a degree first :)
1017 2013-09-15 19:10:14 <BlueMatt> yea, gotta get two more years done so I can have a sheet of paper, really
1018 2013-09-15 19:10:49 <sipa> no worries, i did useless things for 9 years, to get 2 pieces of paper :)
1019 2013-09-15 19:12:15 <BlueMatt> yep, all gotta do it
1020 2013-09-15 19:13:06 <sipa> excluding high school of course
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1024 2013-09-15 19:14:17 <BlueMatt> well, some of us (as in the us) get two sheets of paper pretty quick because we like papers (bachelors and masters in like 3-4 years if you work at it)
1025 2013-09-15 19:14:38 johnsoft has joined
1026 2013-09-15 19:15:49 <sipa> yeah, we switched to bama as well, but only the year after me
1027 2013-09-15 19:16:23 <BlueMatt> ahh
1028 2013-09-15 19:16:37 <sipa> so i only got an "ingenieur" (engineer) degree after 5 years (there's also a "kandidaat" after 2 years, but that's worthless on itself)
1029 2013-09-15 19:17:29 <sipa> now they get a bachelor in engineerig after 3 years, and a master after 2 more
1030 2013-09-15 19:17:43 <sipa> though bachelor in engineering is equally useless
1031 2013-09-15 19:18:00 <BlueMatt> yea, these days a bachelors is largely useless...
1032 2013-09-15 19:18:19 <sipa> well, university here was always 4-5 years
1033 2013-09-15 19:18:29 <sipa> taking off!
1034 2013-09-15 19:18:36 <BlueMatt> enjoy your flights
1035 2013-09-15 19:24:25 <sipa> it's a single 45-minite flight :p
1036 2013-09-15 19:24:33 Eiii has joined
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1038 2013-09-15 19:24:33 Eiii has joined
1039 2013-09-15 19:24:44 <sipa> followed by a 1.5h train ride...
1040 2013-09-15 19:24:52 <BlueMatt> fuuuunnnn
1041 2013-09-15 19:25:04 <BlueMatt> should've flown more direct :p
1042 2013-09-15 19:25:13 <sipa> no kidding
1043 2013-09-15 19:25:20 <sipa> that cost 8x as much
1044 2013-09-15 19:25:31 <BlueMatt> heh, I love travel costs, they are always so logical
1045 2013-09-15 19:26:03 <sipa> now really maybe taking off
1046 2013-09-15 19:26:09 <BlueMatt> heh
1047 2013-09-15 19:26:14 <sipa> cya!
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1094 2013-09-15 20:51:52 <nkuttler> i assume the comment-to in "sendtoaddress <bitcoinaddress> <amount> [comment] [comment-to]" a comment the receiver gets?
1095 2013-09-15 20:52:07 <sipa> no, it's purely local
1096 2013-09-15 20:52:15 <sipa> bitcoin transactions do not carry comments
1097 2013-09-15 20:52:39 GordonG3kko has joined
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1099 2013-09-15 20:52:51 <nkuttler> sipa: i see. what's the difference to comment then?
1100 2013-09-15 20:53:02 <sipa> the payment protocol will add a layer on top that allows metadata to be transferred along with transactions
1101 2013-09-15 20:53:09 <sipa> nkuttler: no clue
1102 2013-09-15 20:53:27 <nkuttler> sipa: ok :)
1103 2013-09-15 20:54:11 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1106 2013-09-15 20:56:22 <Cusipzzz> i vaguely remember you could send to ip address with a comment
1107 2013-09-15 20:56:57 <nkuttler> i guess i'll rtfs sometime
1108 2013-09-15 20:57:09 <nkuttler> hopefully it's documented ;)
1109 2013-09-15 20:57:23 <Cusipzzz> back in 0.3.x or earlier
1110 2013-09-15 20:58:34 BenderCoin has joined
1111 2013-09-15 21:01:24 <sipa> Cusipzzz: even in 0.3.20 or so it was already deprecated and disabled by default
1112 2013-09-15 21:01:32 <sipa> it was removed in 0.6 or so
1113 2013-09-15 21:02:33 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1114 2013-09-15 21:02:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: it took till 0.6 to remove send-to-ip???
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1117 2013-09-15 21:03:05 <Cusipzzz> sipa: ok, i'm oldchool, I remember it
1118 2013-09-15 21:03:35 johnsoft has joined
1119 2013-09-15 21:03:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: i thibk i silently "forgot" it in a refactor or so :)
1120 2013-09-15 21:03:49 <BlueMatt> ahh, well good for you
1121 2013-09-15 21:03:50 <sipa> and it depends
1122 2013-09-15 21:04:00 <sipa> sendong and receiving were removed separately
1123 2013-09-15 21:04:04 <sipa> *sending
1124 2013-09-15 21:04:21 <sipa> se wallet refactors removed support for ip addressea in the address book
1125 2013-09-15 21:04:28 Thepok has joined
1126 2013-09-15 21:04:50 <sipa> and i think support for receiving may have been removed together with cwallet
1127 2013-09-15 21:06:09 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1128 2013-09-15 21:07:05 <sipa> anyway, we're adding something similar again :)
1129 2013-09-15 21:07:11 <sipa> (payment protocol)
1130 2013-09-15 21:07:12 <michagogo> sipa: I think the wiki said it was removed in 0.8...
1131 2013-09-15 21:07:31 Transisto has joined
1132 2013-09-15 21:07:57 <sipa> maybe the last trace
1133 2013-09-15 21:08:15 <michagogo> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IP_Transactions
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1135 2013-09-15 21:11:51 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1137 2013-09-15 21:15:46 <jgarzik> michagogo, it was disabled by default for years
1138 2013-09-15 21:15:57 <michagogo> I kniw
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1140 2013-09-15 21:16:02 <michagogo> s/i/o/
1141 2013-09-15 21:16:05 <sipa> i don't think i've known it being enabled by default
1142 2013-09-15 21:16:22 <sipa> and i first look at the source code at 0.3.17 iirc
1143 2013-09-15 21:17:25 peetaur has joined
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1145 2013-09-15 21:17:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: how hard would full getheaders support be, you think?
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1152 2013-09-15 21:23:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: its really just a structural change (well...kinda), build up a tree and return N from the tree when you get a getheaders
1153 2013-09-15 21:23:24 <BlueMatt> then return the blocks in order ignoring the getdata order
1154 2013-09-15 21:23:38 <sipa> getdata?
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1156 2013-09-15 21:23:55 <BlueMatt> getblocks
1157 2013-09-15 21:23:57 <BlueMatt> get*
1158 2013-09-15 21:25:54 <sipa> ?
1159 2013-09-15 21:26:30 <BlueMatt> the request for block data
1160 2013-09-15 21:27:09 <sipa> what does that have to do with it?
1161 2013-09-15 21:27:33 <BlueMatt> tests orphan handling?
1162 2013-09-15 21:28:21 <sipa> i'm not following
1163 2013-09-15 21:28:24 <sipa> but nevermind
1164 2013-09-15 21:28:27 <BlueMatt> many tests rely on the ordering of blocks being sent to bitcoind
1165 2013-09-15 21:28:36 <sipa> sure
1166 2013-09-15 21:28:38 <BlueMatt> (ie tests for orphan handling, etc)
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1169 2013-09-15 21:29:01 <sipa> but what "getdata order" exists while executing a getheaders.command?
1170 2013-09-15 21:29:14 <BlueMatt> so...you just have to send in the order in the list, not the order requested (eg A->B, A->D->C, send in order A, B, C, D even if bitcoind requests C first)
1171 2013-09-15 21:29:37 <BlueMatt> none, Im just saying ignore how bitcoind wants to order block requests and send it in the order you want
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1173 2013-09-15 21:30:51 <sipa> i still don't get it
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1175 2013-09-15 21:31:05 <sipa> you just send them in order of tree dependency, right?
1176 2013-09-15 21:31:15 <BlueMatt> no, not always, bitcoind will request them in that order
1177 2013-09-15 21:31:28 <BlueMatt> but the tests dont always specifically to test orphan handling
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1180 2013-09-15 21:32:09 <sipa> you can choose the order in whih you announce blocks
1181 2013-09-15 21:32:24 <sipa> but within a getheaders response, they should be sorted
1182 2013-09-15 21:32:31 <BlueMatt> yes, within the getheaders they are
1183 2013-09-15 21:32:40 <sipa> ok, then what are we talking about?
1184 2013-09-15 21:32:53 <BlueMatt> after the getheaders, when the actual blocks are being requested
1185 2013-09-15 21:33:06 <sipa> ah, ok
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1187 2013-09-15 21:33:34 <sipa> yeah, makes sense if you can do that
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1235 2013-09-15 22:27:06 <nkuttler> am i reading it right that i could send btc from specific transaction/addresses by creating raw transactions?
1236 2013-09-15 22:27:47 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1239 2013-09-15 22:28:50 <Luke-Jr> nkuttler: not quite
1240 2013-09-15 22:29:03 <Luke-Jr> nkuttler: you cannot send FROM an address at akk
1241 2013-09-15 22:29:05 <Luke-Jr> all*
1242 2013-09-15 22:30:11 <nkuttler> Luke-Jr: well, yes, but the coins that were received with that address?
1243 2013-09-15 22:30:38 <Luke-Jr> nkuttler: sure
1244 2013-09-15 22:30:57 <nkuttler> Luke-Jr: ok, that's what i meant :) will have to look into the details tomorrow. thanks!
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1279 2013-09-15 23:38:55 nfx11 has joined
1280 2013-09-15 23:38:59 <nfx11> hello
1281 2013-09-15 23:39:29 <nfx11> is somebody interesting working on an advanced message-board?
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1283 2013-09-15 23:42:28 StarenseN has quit (Quit: StarenseN)
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1290 2013-09-15 23:57:22 <Ry4an> c
1291 2013-09-15 23:57:27 <Ry4an> (bah)
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