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  38 2013-09-22 01:15:28 <_Sam--> hi, i got a new miner and was mining away fine.  my power went out for longer than my battery backup, and now my bfgminer just shows "requested work update" repeatedly, but my bfl is idle.  any tips?
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  46 2013-09-22 01:24:10 <jgarzik> _Sam--, wrong channel.  try #bitcoin-mining
  47 2013-09-22 01:24:33 <_Sam--> thank you.
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 106 2013-09-22 03:51:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: fpgaminer posted a short python script that derives all secp256k1's parameters except the generator. :)
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 128 2013-09-22 04:49:08 <warren> If you already downloaded protobuf-2.5.0.tar.bz2 could you please provide sha256sum?
 129 2013-09-22 04:49:14 <warren> Just checking against elsewhere.
 130 2013-09-22 04:50:04 * warren is trying to upgrade gitian win32 to 12.04, will submit PR if it works
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 140 2013-09-22 05:22:41 <warren> <wumpus> [23:05:38] "i686-w64-mingw32" is the target name now (yes, it's confusing, but its's windows 32 bit :-)
 141 2013-09-22 05:23:06 <warren> wumpus: you mean the gitian VM should be amd64 12.04 and build the win32 binary from there?
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 155 2013-09-22 06:10:38 <wumpus> warren: no, that's not needed, it can be done from a 32 bit system just as well
 156 2013-09-22 06:11:07 <wumpus> warren: it's just that the package is called 'mingw-w64' now, even though the target can be either 32 or 64 bit windows
 157 2013-09-22 06:11:20 <wumpus> warren: the host system doesn't matter when cross compiling
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 246 2013-09-22 09:39:25 <Polyatomic> $t$1Polyatomic%O $2looks
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 335 2013-09-22 12:59:45 <fling> ERROR: DisconnectBlock() : added transaction mismatch? database corrupted ERROR: VerifyDB() : *** coin database inconsistencies found (last 116 blocks, 22575 good transactions before that)
 336 2013-09-22 12:59:50 <fling> This is what it asking me > Do you want to rebuild the block database now?
 337 2013-09-22 13:00:03 <fling> what should I do to fix this?
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 346 2013-09-22 13:19:05 <fling> probably fixed with -reindex
 347 2013-09-22 13:19:06 <fling> thanks
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 445 2013-09-22 17:22:48 <kuzetsa> so uhm...
 446 2013-09-22 17:23:15 <kuzetsa> philisophical rhetoric appears to be "gospel" / "treated as official" for the purposes of the channel topic
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 450 2013-09-22 17:23:53 <kuzetsa> "from" (sending from) address does exist, it's just that sometimes it was a combination of sources signing to release the bitcoin, or a coinbase transaction
 451 2013-09-22 17:24:42 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: That really isn't true. Go look at the serialization of a transaction. There is no "from address" in it in any way shape or form.
 452 2013-09-22 17:25:03 prophet10x has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 453 2013-09-22 17:25:04 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: Misunderstandings on this have caused bitcoin to be lost many times.
 454 2013-09-22 17:25:39 <kuzetsa> uhm...
 455 2013-09-22 17:25:58 <kuzetsa> "serialization of a transaction" <-- is that a routine in the source? or what?
 456 2013-09-22 17:26:15 <gmaxwell> While you can guess at where a coin might have come from based on where that value had previously been assigned to, that prior to is not always the proximal from. May not be a working address anymore, may not even be convertable into an address, and could even have nothing to do with the party paying you at all.
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 459 2013-09-22 17:26:41 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: a transaction, converted to a string of bytes— e.g. how its sent out between nodes.
 460 2013-09-22 17:26:42 <kuzetsa> exactly
 461 2013-09-22 17:27:01 <kuzetsa> the from address might not always be easily identified
 462 2013-09-22 17:27:05 <kuzetsa> but it exists
 463 2013-09-22 17:27:09 <gmaxwell> It doesn't.
 464 2013-09-22 17:27:25 <gmaxwell> Where a transaction was previously sent to is not a from. And tx prior tx out may have no address possible at all.
 465 2013-09-22 17:27:59 <kuzetsa> that's philisophical rhetoric, and merely opinion
 466 2013-09-22 17:28:05 <kuzetsa> it really is FROM there
 467 2013-09-22 17:28:08 prophet10x has joined
 468 2013-09-22 17:28:12 <kuzetsa> even if it can't ever be sent back
 469 2013-09-22 17:28:16 _ingsoc has joined
 470 2013-09-22 17:28:45 <gmaxwell> No, it isn't necessarily, it even could be an unrelated party.
 471 2013-09-22 17:28:50 <kuzetsa> "Where a transaction was previously sent to" <-- after it gets signed to be sent elsewhere, that is where it came from, literally.
 472 2013-09-22 17:29:29 <kuzetsa> "the sending of funds was handled by a third party" doesn't mean it wasn't from that address
 473 2013-09-22 17:29:38 ericmuyser has joined
 474 2013-09-22 17:29:50 <gmaxwell> And "Where a transaction was previously sent to"  is not part of the transaction in any case. It's something you can go digging through the blockchain to obtain.
 475 2013-09-22 17:30:35 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: It doesn't have to be because "handled by a third party", for example. I can go pluck an ANYONE_CAN_PAY transaction off the network and add some additional coin to it, is that transaction now "from" me?
 476 2013-09-22 17:31:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kuzetsa: Say I send bitcoins to a script of "anyone who figures out this math problem"
 477 2013-09-22 17:32:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I challenge you to show me the "from address" of the transaction spending those coins
 478 2013-09-22 17:32:19 <kuzetsa> michagogo: right, because I guess not all transactions are sent using a signature check... sure
 479 2013-09-22 17:32:30 <kuzetsa> edge use case doesn't mean the most common usage doesn't exist
 480 2013-09-22 17:32:52 <kuzetsa> "there are exceptions" is not the same as saying "this thing doesn't ever exist at all (because exceptions)"
 481 2013-09-22 17:33:06 <kuzetsa> "there is no / none" <-- that's not the same thing at all
 482 2013-09-22 17:33:13 <kuzetsa> usually, there is.
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 484 2013-09-22 17:33:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|An address does not exist on the level of the bitcoin network
 485 2013-09-22 17:33:37 <kuzetsa> true
 486 2013-09-22 17:33:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You have a pubkey hash
 487 2013-09-22 17:33:49 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: here is a transaction,
 488 2013-09-22 17:33:50 <gmaxwell> 01000000010c0e314bd7bb14721b3cfd8e487cd6866173354f87ca2cf4d13c8d3feb4301a6000000004a483045022100d92e4b61452d91a473a43cde4b469a472467c0ba0cbd5ebba0834e4f4762810402204802b76b7783db57ac1f61d2992799810e173e91055938750815b6d8a675902e014fffffffff0140548900000000001976a914a86e8ee2a05a44613904e18132e49b2448adc4e688ac00000000
 489 2013-09-22 17:33:59 <gmaxwell> which bytes are the 'from address'?
 490 2013-09-22 17:34:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: Could you decoderawtransaction | pastebin that?
 491 2013-09-22 17:34:29 <kuzetsa> the transaction stuffs is in a weirdo non-turing-complete script format, and doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with signautre based on the hash of a ECC key
 492 2013-09-22 17:34:35 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|is wondering what that transaction is
 493 2013-09-22 17:34:35 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: No.
 494 2013-09-22 17:34:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|K
 495 2013-09-22 17:34:53 <kuzetsa> but usually, it has to do with the ECC keys we're currently using
 496 2013-09-22 17:35:19 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: Why are you arguing about this in here, in any case?
 497 2013-09-22 17:35:50 <gmaxwell> (1) this belongs in some bitcoin for newbies channel, not here. (2) it seems that you're just trying to start an arguement
 498 2013-09-22 17:35:51 <kuzetsa> "I'm able to put in funny transactions if I use the console or manually create raw transactions" <-- that's a silly argument, when the default behavior uses addresses in base58 for everything
 499 2013-09-22 17:36:16 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: you keep ignoring arguments that don't facilitate your trolling.
 500 2013-09-22 17:36:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|"Default behavior"
 501 2013-09-22 17:36:58 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: Come back when you're ready to identify the bytes in a transaction specifying "the from address".
 502 2013-09-22 17:37:19 <kuzetsa> sec, lemme pass it through decode raw transaction
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 504 2013-09-22 17:39:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kuzetsa: Hint: the block of data that is a transaction has no "from" address
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 507 2013-09-22 17:40:00 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: no transaction does
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 509 2013-09-22 17:40:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The closest you can get is the pubkey in the scriptsig, iff the txout you're spending  is p2pkh
 510 2013-09-22 17:40:35 <gmaxwell> Yea, as I said, you can go figure out where coin being spent was previously to, though it may have no address. But that is a forensic analysis, and may have jack shit to do with anything someone actually wants to know the "from" for, and this misunderstanding has lost lots of people coin in the past.
 511 2013-09-22 17:40:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I know
 512 2013-09-22 17:41:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Do pay to pubkey transactions pass isstandard?
 513 2013-09-22 17:41:43 <gmaxwell> Because explorer sites show their guestimated from addresses it's been relatively hard to convince people that there is no reliable "from" that they can refund money to in a transaction. People think of transactions like letters with return addresses on them.  Thus the subject.
 514 2013-09-22 17:41:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Not pubkeyhash)
 515 2013-09-22 17:41:48 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: sure.
 516 2013-09-22 17:42:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I wonder how mtgox (e.g.)'s code handles btc sent to their addresses
 517 2013-09-22 17:43:11 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 518 2013-09-22 17:43:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does it just get marked as a profit, or does it float around, not accounted for in or known by their systems, until it's cleaned up manually?
 519 2013-09-22 17:43:43 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: income :p
 520 2013-09-22 17:43:54 <Luke-Jr> at least, I've paid MtGox that way
 521 2013-09-22 17:44:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Lol?
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 526 2013-09-22 17:54:05 <kuzetsa> interesting... it kinda looks like the "transaction details" feature on bitcoin-qt no longer displays "from" address as it once did
 527 2013-09-22 17:54:31 <Luke-Jr> it never did
 528 2013-09-22 17:54:44 <kuzetsa> you mean it always said "unknown" for the "from" section?
 529 2013-09-22 17:54:46 <Luke-Jr> yes
 530 2013-09-22 17:54:52 <kuzetsa> odd
 531 2013-09-22 17:55:11 <Luke-Jr> it's for future use
 532 2013-09-22 17:55:15 <Luke-Jr> when we create requests
 533 2013-09-22 17:55:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: 3.8k reachable now
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 536 2013-09-22 17:56:14 <Luke-Jr> actually, it looks like From used to do something for IP transactions
 537 2013-09-22 17:56:29 <Luke-Jr> but here is the relevant part of Bitcoin-Qt 0.5.0 (first release): strHTML += tr("<b>From:</b> ") + tr("unknown") + "<br>";
 538 2013-09-22 17:57:29 <sipa> it may neve rhave been completely ported to Qt
 539 2013-09-22 17:57:30 <Luke-Jr> and even wxBitcoin 0.1.5: strDescription += "From: unknown, To: ";
 540 2013-09-22 17:57:56 <sipa> or maybe satoshi planned to extend the ip transactions protocol to include from information in it
 541 2013-09-22 17:58:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: /me wonders if that number includes him
 542 2013-09-22 17:58:07 <sipa> (which makes sense, if it's something decided by the sender)
 543 2013-09-22 17:58:42 <sipa> gmaxwell: nice, the secp256k1's parameters are easily reproducible
 544 2013-09-22 17:59:06 <Cusipzzz> i doubt most of the 'from address' people are think of IP transactions, most people don't even remember them
 545 2013-09-22 17:59:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: except the generator, alas. I spent a little while trying to come up with it.
 546 2013-09-22 18:00:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: that's unfortunate, but hardly worrying
 547 2013-09-22 18:00:22 <gmaxwell> e.g. curve.lift_x(1)*n for varrious n..  No, not worrying at all.
 548 2013-09-22 18:01:25 <sipa> is there a point with x=0?
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 570 2013-09-22 18:51:57 <jgarzik> 19,141,092 MicroSD cards will fit in a 2014 Chevy Suburban.  That's over 1.2 billion GB, or 1168 PB or 1.14 EB
 571 2013-09-22 18:52:05 <michagogo> lol
 572 2013-09-22 18:52:32 <michagogo> Assuming you can get 19,141,092 microSD cards :-P
 573 2013-09-22 18:52:41 <michagogo> (also, with that many, some are sure to fail)
 574 2013-09-22 18:53:01 <jgarzik> And find enough humans or build enough machines to fill them with data, then pack them
 575 2013-09-22 18:53:32 <jgarzik> Wonder how many years it would take … (random)  10 people to fill those cards, then pack the suburban.  :)
 576 2013-09-22 18:53:41 <michagogo> Depends on the class of the cards, too
 577 2013-09-22 18:53:56 <michagogo> (and on how many readers they have to use at once)
 578 2013-09-22 18:54:03 <michagogo> (and on what they're copying data from)
 579 2013-09-22 18:54:05 <michagogo> (etc)
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 583 2013-09-22 18:56:13 <jgarzik> assuming those problems are solved, driving the Chevy Suburban across the USA, from New York to LA, is 2790 mi in 40 hours.
 584 2013-09-22 18:56:18 <jgarzik> That's 68,057 Gbps
 585 2013-09-22 18:56:23 <jgarzik> per Suburban
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 589 2013-09-22 18:59:48 <Cusipzzz> the bigger problem is the suburban would break down within 20 hours, lol chevy :)
 590 2013-09-22 19:00:02 <weex> also there's going to be some leakage as microsd cards would flow into the various holes in the interior
 591 2013-09-22 19:00:17 <jgarzik> hah
 592 2013-09-22 19:00:28 <sipa> oh no, a memory leak
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 598 2013-09-22 19:09:57 * michagogo wonders if petertodd is around
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 600 2013-09-22 19:11:32 <petertodd> michagogo: hi possible person :P
 601 2013-09-22 19:11:37 <michagogo> lol
 602 2013-09-22 19:12:02 <michagogo> What you say does make sense
 603 2013-09-22 19:12:17 <michagogo> I've seen someone (in here, I think?) explain it like this
 604 2013-09-22 19:12:29 <petertodd> Yeah, I mean, you may have devs convinced you are someone, but, how is a third-party supposed to know?
 605 2013-09-22 19:12:34 <jgarzik> Distributed consensus!  32 discordant metronomes achieve synchrony:  http://io9.com/5947112/watch-32-discordant-metronomes-achieve-synchrony-in-a-matter-of-minutes?action_type_map=%7B%2210153226568265094%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210153226568265094%22%3A159320750875948%7D&action_ref_map&fb_action_ids=10153226568265094   </mostly OT>
 606 2013-09-22 19:12:59 <petertodd> jgarzik: pff, that's so centralized via the table
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 608 2013-09-22 19:13:13 <warren> sipa: don't worry, garbage collection will take care of it... although it might collect the entire suburban.
 609 2013-09-22 19:13:17 <sipa> also, it's not particularly DoS-resistant
 610 2013-09-22 19:13:25 <petertodd> sipa: lol
 611 2013-09-22 19:13:30 <sipa> one evil metronome could probably disturb the whole thing
 612 2013-09-22 19:13:34 <michagogo> petertodd: Oh, I'd misinterpreted what you were saying
 613 2013-09-22 19:13:47 <Cusipzzz> african or european metronomes?
 614 2013-09-22 19:13:51 <jgarzik> rofl
 615 2013-09-22 19:14:10 <petertodd> sipa: Although the ability of each metronome to disturb the whole thing is at least proportional to the power each metronome has.
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 617 2013-09-22 19:14:26 <sipa> petertodd: we always assume an uberpowerful attacker anyway
 618 2013-09-22 19:14:54 <petertodd> sipa: Sure, but that metronome would at least need to be a 10% attacker.
 619 2013-09-22 19:15:38 <michagogo> petertodd: That's a good question. Hmm.
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 621 2013-09-22 19:15:58 <petertodd> michagogo: My main concern is that given that the output of a gitian sig isn't a proof-of-work, you really don't want it to be possible to get more than your share of gitian weight by anything virtual.
 622 2013-09-22 19:16:15 <michagogo> I see.
 623 2013-09-22 19:16:20 <petertodd> michagogo: (IE, you can't know if someone just copies the gitian output)
 624 2013-09-22 19:16:37 <michagogo> (well, you can see that the input manifests are different)
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 626 2013-09-22 19:16:49 <michagogo> But yeah, that's true
 627 2013-09-22 19:18:15 <michagogo> petertodd: Would you consider me identifying myself to a few users in private, who could state that I've done so, meaningful?
 628 2013-09-22 19:18:16 <petertodd> michagogo: When I saw your commit I briefly had you confused with mikegogulski, whose twitter account may have been just hacked, FWIW.
 629 2013-09-22 19:18:23 <michagogo> Who?
 630 2013-09-22 19:18:31 <petertodd> michagogo: No, because I as a third-party can't verify that.
 631 2013-09-22 19:19:15 <petertodd> michagogo: Now if you contributed some code, via gpg signed git commits, I could at least verify that code existed easily. (git log --show-signature)
 632 2013-09-22 19:19:19 <michagogo> Well, you couldn't verify that a name and email address that I attached to the key weren't sockpuppets either
 633 2013-09-22 19:19:24 CodeShark has joined
 634 2013-09-22 19:19:36 <petertodd> michagogo: Not directly, but I could google you more easily.
 635 2013-09-22 19:19:46 <michagogo> If I were googlable, sure
 636 2013-09-22 19:19:48 <michagogo> (I don't suppose commits can be retroactively signed?)
 637 2013-09-22 19:20:24 <petertodd> michagogo: Nope
 638 2013-09-22 19:21:23 * michagogo checks and sees he has 3 commits in the bitcoin repo
 639 2013-09-22 19:21:39 * michagogo switches to IRCCloud on his phone
 640 2013-09-22 19:22:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: No, x=0 is not on the curve.
 641 2013-09-22 19:23:34 <petertodd> michagogo: whereas if you look up pete@petertodd.org you get plenty of results, even more if you look up pete@petertodd.ca, my old address (which I still control)
 642 2013-09-22 19:23:48 <gmaxwell> 2,3,4,6,8,12... all are, and I tried doubling all of them.
 643 2013-09-22 19:24:01 <petertodd> michagogo: for instance something I wrote for the linux journal in 2002: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5963
 644 2013-09-22 19:24:42 <gmaxwell> Aww. Just a wittle baby boy in the picture. :P
 645 2013-09-22 19:25:14 <petertodd> lol
 646 2013-09-22 19:25:20 awaton has joined
 647 2013-09-22 19:25:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: Well, I don't know that publicizing my name would make much turn up in Google...
 648 2013-09-22 19:26:18 <petertodd> michagogo: Yeah, which is a problem. Look at it another way: what do you have to lose by releasing bad gitian sigs if you don't have a public reputation?
 649 2013-09-22 19:26:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I see.
 650 2013-09-22 19:28:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: Well, there's more connected to this name than to my real one, a quick search suggests
 651 2013-09-22 19:29:02 <petertodd> michagogo: such as?
 652 2013-09-22 19:29:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Plus, there are more false positives (people with the same name) with my real name
 653 2013-09-22 19:29:48 s7r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 654 2013-09-22 19:29:57 <petertodd> michagogo: Sure - note how I said google for my email, not my name.
 655 2013-09-22 19:30:33 digitalmagus2 has joined
 656 2013-09-22 19:30:33 <petertodd> michagogo: Google for my name and you might think I shouldn't be on gitian because I'm a serial killer...
 657 2013-09-22 19:30:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: lol
 658 2013-09-22 19:30:54 <Cusipzzz> ted bundy?
 659 2013-09-22 19:31:08 <petertodd> http://cjaye57.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/james-todd-twin-brother-of-peter-todd-the-jessica-foster-case/
 660 2013-09-22 19:31:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, searching for my email address turns up even fewer relevant things :-/
 661 2013-09-22 19:31:32 s7r has joined
 662 2013-09-22 19:32:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Some posts on some yahoo group from over half a decade ago
 663 2013-09-22 19:32:25 <petertodd> michagogo: well, set weight to 1 like you had before and leave it at that. After all, having people verify the sigs, even if we can't verify who they are, is still valuable because anyone can blow the whistle.
 664 2013-09-22 19:33:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: That's kinda what I was thinking, I think
 665 2013-09-22 19:33:23 <petertodd> michagogo: Yeah, I'd be happy with that.
 666 2013-09-22 19:33:34 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|was following Gavin's suggestion
 667 2013-09-22 19:34:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, I was thinking maybe the action weight could be something besides a multiple of 40
 668 2013-09-22 19:34:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|At its most basic, it could be, say, 121
 669 2013-09-22 19:35:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which ATM would be "at least 3 core devs, plus one more person"
 670 2013-09-22 19:35:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or 81, or whatever
 671 2013-09-22 19:35:47 <petertodd> michagogo: Not a bad idea really, although an objection there is how hard a time we've had getting gitian sigs.
 672 2013-09-22 19:36:08 <petertodd> not that I'm helping...
 673 2013-09-22 19:36:17 prophet10x has joined
 674 2013-09-22 19:36:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(If someone ever gets around to drawing up a hierarchy or list of weight meanings or whatever, action weight could easily be recalculated however we want)
 675 2013-09-22 19:38:07 <petertodd> michagogo: yup
 676 2013-09-22 19:38:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, right now the action weight means nothing at all, until the point when (if?) gitian-downloader happens
 677 2013-09-22 19:38:25 Liquid_ has quit (Disconnected by services)
 678 2013-09-22 19:38:46 <petertodd> michagogo: yup, and eventually we're going to want negative weights too to say "THE DEV TEAMS ALL BEEN COMPROMISED!"
 679 2013-09-22 19:38:48 Liquid__ has joined
 680 2013-09-22 19:38:49 <warren> there's a bug in the gitian sigs procedure
 681 2013-09-22 19:39:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: What kind of bug?
 682 2013-09-22 19:39:04 <warren> somehow it adds an extra newline between each line
 683 2013-09-22 19:39:06 <warren> randomly
 684 2013-09-22 19:39:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm?
 685 2013-09-22 19:39:17 <gmaxwell> Yea, negative weights will be good. That models the way we expect the security to work... "if something bad happens, someone sounds an alarm."
 686 2013-09-22 19:39:19 <warren> I see it in sigs made by people but not consistently
 687 2013-09-22 19:39:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: So what, people will have two keys in the system?
 688 2013-09-22 19:40:17 <petertodd> michagogo: No, just a way to make a signature saying "this release is bad"
 689 2013-09-22 19:40:42 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: huh? No. I mean there would be people who cannot add positive karma (or only limited positive karma) but could add lots of negative karma.
 690 2013-09-22 19:40:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe I'm not aware of gitian's full potential
 691 2013-09-22 19:40:48 <petertodd> michagogo: Or, actually, more like "further releases by these keys are bad"
 692 2013-09-22 19:41:00 <warren> the biggest problem here is there is no way to prove that someone actually built it
 693 2013-09-22 19:41:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But wouldn't a negative-weight sig need a
 694 2013-09-22 19:41:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Build?
 695 2013-09-22 19:42:00 <petertodd> warren: Yeah, best you can do is no-one releases their signatures until some set time in the future and you timestamp you gitian-sigs when you make them.
 696 2013-09-22 19:42:10 <warren> wait
 697 2013-09-22 19:42:13 <warren> there might be a simpler way
 698 2013-09-22 19:42:18 <petertodd> warren: ?
 699 2013-09-22 19:42:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So if, say, Gavin, luke, warren, laanwj, sipa, and whoever else decide to collude to steal coins, you'd need to reproduce their build
 700 2013-09-22 19:42:55 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
 701 2013-09-22 19:43:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which you couldn't do because they could be using a patch you don't have
 702 2013-09-22 19:43:15 pooler has joined
 703 2013-09-22 19:43:28 <warren> petertodd: everyone can publish a hash that is compromised of the hashes of all the key output builds.  Then challenge each other for hashes of random portions of those inputs.
 704 2013-09-22 19:43:50 Nesetalis has joined
 705 2013-09-22 19:44:00 <petertodd> warren: Problem is they could just copy the whole intermediate build process.
 706 2013-09-22 19:44:22 <petertodd> warren: Certainely makes it harder to without someone elses co-operation though.
 707 2013-09-22 19:44:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also there are only 2 (?) files that might change
 708 2013-09-22 19:44:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or 3 for windows
 709 2013-09-22 19:44:43 <warren> petertodd: isn't this a zero knowledge approach?
 710 2013-09-22 19:44:48 * warren reads the definition of zero knowledge.
 711 2013-09-22 19:45:09 <gmaxwell> petertodd: You can make a non-trivally hash. Though anyone who could verify it could clone it.
 712 2013-09-22 19:45:50 <petertodd> warren: My point is if I want to make a gitian sig but don't want to do the actual work if you're willing to co-operate with me I trivially can.
 713 2013-09-22 19:45:59 <warren> If you made your own build, you can use it to verify that someone else has the same outputs without revealing the hashes of those outputs directly.
 714 2013-09-22 19:46:01 <petertodd> warren: Zero-knowledge doesn't help.
 715 2013-09-22 19:46:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unless I'm kidding something here, the problem is that the expected result is that everyone has identical builds
 716 2013-09-22 19:46:20 <warren> It doesn't help to prove the two people you ask didn't collude.
 717 2013-09-22 19:46:20 <gmaxwell> e.g. (PubKey * hash) is non-clonable by someone who doesn't know hash. but trivally verifyable.
 718 2013-09-22 19:46:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Missing*
 719 2013-09-22 19:46:36 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: Thats the point, how can you say it's a problem?
 720 2013-09-22 19:47:20 <warren> petertodd: this is at least a meaningful improvement.  You know at least YOUR build is supposed to be good, and you reveal nothing about it in verifying with <others>.
 721 2013-09-22 19:47:22 <petertodd> warren: Actually, I think you've got a good point there: this is an advantage over just timestamping because it makes it possible to verify a build done by someone after the gitian sigs have been released.
 722 2013-09-22 19:47:32 <gmaxwell> (or even just H(pubkey || H(build)) for that matter)
 723 2013-09-22 19:47:57 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 724 2013-09-22 19:47:58 <gmaxwell> warren: it really doesn't, because you can go grab someone elses build compute the hash and sign that, — doesn't mean you built it.
 725 2013-09-22 19:48:03 <petertodd> warren: So if I miss the deadline, I can still contribute my sig and other builders can verify that I did so honestly. (assuming no-one has given their intermediates to me)
 726 2013-09-22 19:48:12 AtashiCon has joined
 727 2013-09-22 19:48:16 Eiii has joined
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 729 2013-09-22 19:48:16 Eiii has joined
 730 2013-09-22 19:48:17 <petertodd> warren: Not a huge improvement, but an improvement.
 731 2013-09-22 19:48:44 <gmaxwell> petertodd: oh you mean ZKPing the non-distributed intermediaries? meh, no one but another builder can verify that.
 732 2013-09-22 19:49:12 <warren> gmaxwell: it doesn't prevent collusion, but it at least helps an individual provide information without revealing anything that can be copied.
 733 2013-09-22 19:49:14 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Sure, but as I say, that is an improvement over the simple timestamp version.
 734 2013-09-22 19:49:30 <gmaxwell> warren: if you can verify it you can copy it under any of these schemes.
 735 2013-09-22 19:49:37 Nesetalis has joined
 736 2013-09-22 19:49:39 <petertodd> gmaxwell: IE, I timestamp my gitian sigs, and we all release the sigs after some deadline passes.
 737 2013-09-22 19:49:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I mean, in theory, you could use something like remote-attest with a TPM :-D
 738 2013-09-22 19:50:15 <warren> gmaxwell: you provide only the hash of all hashes, then challenge random parts of the outputs that lead to that hash.  yes, doesn't solve all problems, but better than we have today.
 739 2013-09-22 19:50:16 <gmaxwell> I think you're chasing your tail. If a signer is malicious then they can just directly cooperate with a badguy.
 740 2013-09-22 19:50:29 sgstair has left ()
 741 2013-09-22 19:50:46 <gmaxwell> warren: What attack does it solve?  J-random-user can't tell if the challenge result is worthless garbage or not.
 742 2013-09-22 19:50:54 prophet10x has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 743 2013-09-22 19:50:59 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yes, but I'm still protecting against signers only being a little evil and getting lazy; that's a very real human failing that we might see.
 744 2013-09-22 19:51:09 <warren> gmaxwell: it solves the "this guy just copied my hashes and signed it" problem.
 745 2013-09-22 19:51:14 <gmaxwell> E.g. I compute a bunch of fake build stuff, and take petertodd's binaries, then I produce one of these challenge hashes. No one but another builder could tell it was bogus.
 746 2013-09-22 19:51:29 <gmaxwell> petertodd: I'd worry if we were paying signers— otherwise?
 747 2013-09-22 19:51:38 prophet10x has joined
 748 2013-09-22 19:52:03 <gmaxwell> warren: I don't believe it solves that at all, since no one but another builder could distinguish a fake signature from a correct one.
 749 2013-09-22 19:52:08 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yup, and right now we have enough problems getting gitian sigs to always match first try... but it's an easy thing to do at least.
 750 2013-09-22 19:52:26 <warren> the gitian process needs to be better documented and automated, allowing more random people to provide the top hash
 751 2013-09-22 19:52:55 <petertodd> warren: yeah, I tried and couldn't even get it to run on my computer :( something about bios issues with the VM supposedly
 752 2013-09-22 19:53:44 prophet10x has quit (Client Quit)
 753 2013-09-22 19:54:02 <michagogo> petertodd: You want your CPU and BIOS to support hardware virtualization
 754 2013-09-22 19:54:21 <warren> petertodd: what CPU?  it's been supported for years already ...
 755 2013-09-22 19:54:22 <michagogo> (Intel VT-x or AMD-V)
 756 2013-09-22 19:54:43 <gmaxwell> sadly intel product differentiates the nested virtualization stuff.
 757 2013-09-22 19:54:45 cads has joined
 758 2013-09-22 19:54:48 <michagogo> gmaxwell: ?
 759 2013-09-22 19:54:49 <gmaxwell> You can buy a brand new cpu without it. :(
 760 2013-09-22 19:54:53 <michagogo> Ah
 761 2013-09-22 19:55:00 <petertodd> michagogo: Yeah, I checked that virtualization was turned on, which it was, and it still didn't work. Apparently it's a known problem with my motherboard. :(
 762 2013-09-22 19:55:14 <michagogo> :-(
 763 2013-09-22 19:56:06 <michagogo> It'd be nice if gitian worked on Windows
 764 2013-09-22 19:56:10 <warren> the current gitian documetation also points at input URL's that are dead
 765 2013-09-22 19:56:24 <gmaxwell> warren: open pull requests!
 766 2013-09-22 19:56:29 <warren> I intend to
 767 2013-09-22 19:56:30 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: gitian supports VirtualBox on Windows IIRC
 768 2013-09-22 19:56:36 <warren> gmaxwell: I'm working on 12.04 win32 gitian now
 769 2013-09-22 19:56:41 <michagogo> (though at the moment, I seem to have some kind of borked-nedd going on with gpg)
 770 2013-09-22 19:56:46 <michagogo> borked-ness*
 771 2013-09-22 19:57:03 <michagogo> At some point I had it installed on my previous computer or something
 772 2013-09-22 19:57:08 <gmaxwell> petertodd: the real use for being able to prove people did the build themselves would be to bounty/lottery performing the act, but sadly sound _no_ system (not even SCIP) could prevent cloning. The best you could do is remote attest to some trusted hardware.
 773 2013-09-22 19:57:17 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
 774 2013-09-22 19:57:22 <michagogo> And accidentally carried some files over to this computer
 775 2013-09-22 19:57:28 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Yeah, and with trusted hardware, why do it more than once?
 776 2013-09-22 19:57:57 <michagogo> I don't know what's wrong exactly, but I've never managed to get gpg working on my computer :-/
 777 2013-09-22 19:58:01 <warren> I'd like to improve gitian to provide a hash at the top of all the key outputs.  Some of the other files below it are non-deterministic but that doesn't effect determinism in the final outputs.
 778 2013-09-22 19:58:03 <gmaxwell> petertodd: There are degrees of trust, but indeed, thats not worth paying for. :)
 779 2013-09-22 19:58:21 <michagogo> (correction: on the Windows installation on the internal harddrive of my computer)
 780 2013-09-22 19:58:40 <gmaxwell> warren: uh. aren't all the binaries hashed?
 781 2013-09-22 19:58:56 hsmiths has quit (Quit: Quit)
 782 2013-09-22 19:59:05 <gmaxwell> replace that question. What _isn't_ included in the hash right now?
 783 2013-09-22 19:59:26 <warren> gmaxwell: hash of all hashes that matter, just to conveniently report a single hash to compare against other people
 784 2013-09-22 19:59:33 <michagogo> warren: Well, something that I realized after the first or second time that I compared gitian asserts for identicalness is that you only really need the first 2 or 3 lines
 785 2013-09-22 20:00:35 <michagogo> Oh, my numbers were a bit off
 786 2013-09-22 20:00:42 <michagogo> it's 4 lines of linux and 3 of windows
 787 2013-09-22 20:00:57 <michagogo> fba3b61d22e98a3bfa17e193fdf2ff68c018794ff5d7a1b3aef41c9a56d4606d  bin/32/bitcoin-qt    56bbd66e8fd42e6340b1f9e86fb9dd5ba23543a0684376b3c2b518c0f5e512da  bin/32/bitcoind    8baf63fd318582cc2553d89ee07e5fe21874ee6a7d948ed81a2d32349e99070c  bin/64/bitcoin-qt    f7643b298de044c20f6e629f8c0c179eb5f35efa0edcadb0895124d2b4f59cf2  bin/64/bitcoind
 788 2013-09-22 20:01:10 <michagogo> and dbfbb6eeb74bf1aa59679f122439d33d8b9d98fa0d9bb97a103140b682e514fc  bitcoin-0.8.5-win32-setup.exe    d1212680e0cd4382d514d407d3494284b8ebd7e8028a8f22179c108767420264  bitcoin-qt.exe    05af7e22721d0d1ca01c4375291f94f0248d06fdada0a9503a4597af0ca262e7  daemon/bitcoind.exe
 789 2013-09-22 20:01:25 awaton has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 790 2013-09-22 20:01:36 <sipa> of setup.exe matches, everything matches
 791 2013-09-22 20:01:40 <sipa> *if
 792 2013-09-22 20:01:42 <warren> sure
 793 2013-09-22 20:01:54 <michagogo> sipa: Oh, right -- good point
 794 2013-09-22 20:01:59 <warren> linux it's four files
 795 2013-09-22 20:02:25 <warren> do we ever plan on doing arm and arm64 gitian?
 796 2013-09-22 20:02:34 <michagogo> But yeah, it wouldn't hurt for gitian to hash the out manifest block
 797 2013-09-22 20:02:37 <warren> protobuf needs patches to build on archs not intended by Google
 798 2013-09-22 20:02:55 hsmiths has joined
 799 2013-09-22 20:03:19 <michagogo> In our specific case we may not need it, but with some other projects there may be more actual build artifacts that need comparing
 800 2013-09-22 20:04:22 <gmaxwell> protobuf needs patches on ARM? thats pretty crappy.
 801 2013-09-22 20:04:25 <gmaxwell> ::sigh::
 802 2013-09-22 20:04:48 <warren> gmaxwell: yeah, a giant patch, replacement autogen.sh and autoconf-2.69 to redo everything
 803 2013-09-22 20:04:56 patcon has joined
 804 2013-09-22 20:04:57 <sipa> orly?
 805 2013-09-22 20:05:12 <warren> gmaxwell: i was going to propose it for contrib/ but I realized we have maybe two users on arm
 806 2013-09-22 20:05:21 <sipa> wait, what is the problem with arm onprotobuf?
 807 2013-09-22 20:05:28 * warren finds URL
 808 2013-09-22 20:05:32 * michagogo wonders if gavinandresen was serious about "Michagogo should have weight eleven"
 809 2013-09-22 20:05:51 <sipa> warren: all of which build from souce, i guess :p
 810 2013-09-22 20:06:08 <sipa> or run onlybitcoind
 811 2013-09-22 20:06:13 <warren> sipa: this only matters to us if we want to do a gitian-like arm and arm64 build
 812 2013-09-22 20:06:30 <gmaxwell> warren: I expect that arm will eventually be an officially supported platform for us... someday. But that doesn't mean we need to worry about it now.  Though I think the non-portablity speaks pretty negatively about protobuf.
 813 2013-09-22 20:06:37 <sipa> so what is the problem?
 814 2013-09-22 20:06:43 <warren> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=926374   and patches available here http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/protobuf.git/tree
 815 2013-09-22 20:07:10 gcX46 has joined
 816 2013-09-22 20:07:32 <gmaxwell> protobuff has memory barrier code?
 817 2013-09-22 20:07:34 <michagogo> petertodd: I'd update the PR with weight: 1, except that I'd like to hear gavinandresen's explanation for his suggestion of 11
 818 2013-09-22 20:07:34 <warren> gmaxwell: apparently 0.8 works just fine on arm linux right now, we have one user who reports that its "slow"
 819 2013-09-22 20:07:55 <michagogo> I mean, simply whether there was some reason behind it or if he was just throwing it out there
 820 2013-09-22 20:08:01 <gmaxwell> warren: "arm" is a little vague.  And yes, it works, I have it running on arm. So does bluematt.
 821 2013-09-22 20:08:03 <michagogo> ;;seen gavinandresen
 822 2013-09-22 20:08:03 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 14 hours, 14 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> cfields: running make -j 1 seems to be working better, I think there is some parallelism issue with the make check with blocktester rules
 823 2013-09-22 20:08:07 Bkil has joined
 824 2013-09-22 20:08:14 <warren> petertodd: I think 3 signers is not enough. It should be more
 825 2013-09-22 20:09:23 <warren> gmaxwell: I could submit these patches as part of the gitian process, which makes no difference for our current gitian builds, but it serves as example for future other-archs that want to copy it.
 826 2013-09-22 20:09:28 <Luke-Jr> warren: that's ARM64
 827 2013-09-22 20:09:30 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 828 2013-09-22 20:10:01 <Bkil> Is there an IRC channel for testnet discussion? Thanks
 829 2013-09-22 20:10:10 <sipa> this one will do fine
 830 2013-09-22 20:10:29 <Luke-Jr> unless you want to monetise testnet..
 831 2013-09-22 20:10:46 <sipa> gmaxwell,warren: meh, it should be trivial to compile protobuf to pure C/C++ without dependencies, for just the basic stuff
 832 2013-09-22 20:11:17 <Bkil> Does anyone have the current block number of the testnet? Blockexplorer.com has it at 103332 but that hasn't updated since August 29. Looking to use the testnet to test a project for school :)
 833 2013-09-22 20:11:19 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: even then. :)
 834 2013-09-22 20:11:48 <jgarzik> I bet "Spinal Tap" is Gavin's favorite movie
 835 2013-09-22 20:11:48 patcon has joined
 836 2013-09-22 20:11:50 <jgarzik> (RE 11)
 837 2013-09-22 20:11:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: one exchange put testnet on as an alt coin ...
 838 2013-09-22 20:12:10 <sipa> jgarzik: or Ocean's Elevent
 839 2013-09-22 20:12:12 <petertodd> warren: Realisticly I suspect github is a more likely vector to malicious code than gitian builds at this point.
 840 2013-09-22 20:12:16 <michagogo> ;;testnet,blocks
 841 2013-09-22 20:12:16 <gmaxwell> warren: fantastic! which exchange?
 842 2013-09-22 20:12:16 <gribble> Error: "testnet,blocks" is not a valid command.
 843 2013-09-22 20:12:21 * warren finds
 844 2013-09-22 20:12:27 <nkuttler> Bkil: my wallet says 107148
 845 2013-09-22 20:12:28 <gmaxwell> I'm gonna be super rick!
 846 2013-09-22 20:12:32 <gmaxwell> er rich!
 847 2013-09-22 20:12:33 <jgarzik> heh
 848 2013-09-22 20:12:36 <nkuttler> Bkil: but just run getinfo..
 849 2013-09-22 20:12:40 <Luke-Jr> warren: tell me before gmaxwell!
 850 2013-09-22 20:12:48 <michagogo> my node has 107150
 851 2013-09-22 20:12:50 <jgarzik> honestly, I do think we should reset testnet once a year
 852 2013-09-22 20:13:00 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: auto-reset? :D
 853 2013-09-22 20:13:22 <jgarzik> prevents the incentive of using it as an alternate data stream
 854 2013-09-22 20:13:27 <gmaxwell> No reason to have a schedule about it.
 855 2013-09-22 20:13:28 <warren> gmaxwell: Luke-Jr: https://twitter.com/coinkite/status/381067888552976384
 856 2013-09-22 20:13:30 <sipa> now that we have explicit network parameters, even just adding a testnet4 without deleting 3 is easy
 857 2013-09-22 20:13:41 <jgarzik> it's not the mainnet blockchain, but it's still a common, shared database
 858 2013-09-22 20:14:05 <jgarzik> too much incentive to abuse, if not reset regularly, IMO
 859 2013-09-22 20:14:08 <sipa> i would like to remove all explicit mentions of TestNet() in the code though, and replace them by boolean chain param properties
 860 2013-09-22 20:14:09 <nkuttler> i'd like to be able to spin up private testnets. for unit testing, being able to mine with results, etc
 861 2013-09-22 20:14:11 <Luke-Jr> warren: ok, that doesn't look too bad, but they're doing it wrong
 862 2013-09-22 20:14:12 <jgarzik> like this exchange thing
 863 2013-09-22 20:14:14 StarenseN has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 864 2013-09-22 20:14:20 <jgarzik> sipa, ACK
 865 2013-09-22 20:14:29 <gmaxwell> I dunno that an exchange thing alone is an incentive to abuse.
 866 2013-09-22 20:14:33 <warren> petertodd: if only someone were to invent a decentralized source control mechanism...
 867 2013-09-22 20:14:36 <Luke-Jr> pfft @ requiring a login to view FAQ
 868 2013-09-22 20:14:48 <gmaxwell> I tried to get mtgox for a long time to setup an exchange where you could trade testusd for testnetbtc.
 869 2013-09-22 20:14:49 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: ?
 870 2013-09-22 20:14:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it looks like they're suggesting it actually for testing
 871 2013-09-22 20:14:59 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: that Coinkite exchange
 872 2013-09-22 20:15:02 <warren> gmaxwell: and they refused?
 873 2013-09-22 20:15:21 <gmaxwell> IIRC they said they would but never got around to it.
 874 2013-09-22 20:15:21 <petertodd> warren: careful, I'll make a git plugin that uploads patches to the blockchain
 875 2013-09-22 20:15:26 <jgarzik> exchange thing just a side issue.  my  main worry is that simple lack of regular reset, on any schedule, opens the door to botnet comm channels, wikileaks cable data storage, etc.
 876 2013-09-22 20:15:40 <jgarzik> as costs remain offloaded
 877 2013-09-22 20:15:42 <Luke-Jr> warren: like git?
 878 2013-09-22 20:15:44 wallet43 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 879 2013-09-22 20:15:44 <warren> gmaxwell: for an authentic experience, it also has testusd wires delayed by 2 months
 880 2013-09-22 20:15:48 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yea, it's fine to reset. I agree.
 881 2013-09-22 20:15:52 <jgarzik> warren, rofl
 882 2013-09-22 20:15:53 <Bkil> nkuttler: thanks was syncing a new node and wanted to see how long it would take. Looks like it is done now, thanks: )
 883 2013-09-22 20:16:05 <petertodd> jgarzik: I suspect data storage will always be secondary to data distribution in terms of usefulness actually
 884 2013-09-22 20:16:15 StarenseN has joined
 885 2013-09-22 20:16:17 <gmaxwell> warren: "How can you tell mtgoxusd from testusd?"  "The value of testusd is known"
 886 2013-09-22 20:16:29 <warren> lol
 887 2013-09-22 20:16:40 <Luke-Jr> warren: I think I've been waiting over 2 months for my wire
 888 2013-09-22 20:17:14 <michagogo> Also, who mines the testusd?
 889 2013-09-22 20:17:20 <warren> testfed
 890 2013-09-22 20:17:21 <gmaxwell> michagogo: mtgox would, of course.
 891 2013-09-22 20:17:22 <Luke-Jr> mines?
 892 2013-09-22 20:17:22 * jgarzik made several BTC at mtgox couple days ago, dep btc -> sell for mtgoxusd -> buy at a lower price -> withdraw btc
 893 2013-09-22 20:17:29 <Luke-Jr> you just make a deposit and it fabricates
 894 2013-09-22 20:17:31 <Luke-Jr> like in the real world
 895 2013-09-22 20:17:36 <jgarzik> made…  5.19 BTC
 896 2013-09-22 20:17:42 <jgarzik> in 48 hours
 897 2013-09-22 20:17:49 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: Well, what do you expect from a line that advances at the take of 10 users per day on the biggest bitcoin exchange there is?
 898 2013-09-22 20:17:56 <Bkil> nkuttler: testnet in a box should allow for private testnets
 899 2013-09-22 20:18:07 <petertodd> jgarzik: that's called trading, and adds liquidity...
 900 2013-09-22 20:18:08 <jgarzik> testnet in a box is a private testnet
 901 2013-09-22 20:18:24 <warren> make it long enough and reorg the entire testnet!
 902 2013-09-22 20:18:33 <nkuttler> Bkil: yeah, i know, i just have to build my own for altcoins.. </ot>
 903 2013-09-22 20:18:49 <gmaxwell> man, you don't want to know how I misread " Coinkite " :(
 904 2013-09-22 20:18:49 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 905 2013-09-22 20:19:04 StarenseN has quit (Client Quit)
 906 2013-09-22 20:19:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: then don't tell us! :P
 907 2013-09-22 20:19:18 <petertodd> gmaxwell: cronkite <- yeah that's pretty bad
 908 2013-09-22 20:19:20 <jgarzik> So for those purposes, any mtgoxusd value is useful, as movements are not necessarily correlated to btc movement ;p
 909 2013-09-22 20:19:47 <Bkil> I tried to use it today,  but using a .3 M hash a second CPU makes it slow
 910 2013-09-22 20:19:52 <michagogo> [23:17:04] <warren> make it long enough and reorg the entire testnet!
 911 2013-09-22 20:19:52 <michagogo> If it weren't for the fact that best chain is set by the amount of work and not purely the number of blocks, that would be much easier on testnet than on mainnet
 912 2013-09-22 20:20:01 <Luke-Jr> Bkil: so get a decent CPU
 913 2013-09-22 20:20:05 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 914 2013-09-22 20:20:13 <Luke-Jr> Bkil: or one of those cheap Bitfountain miners
 915 2013-09-22 20:20:19 <gmaxwell> michagogo: number of blocks would be trivially insecure! :)
 916 2013-09-22 20:20:21 <michagogo> (because of testnet's 20 minute rule)
 917 2013-09-22 20:20:31 <michagogo> gmaxwell: Right, of course
 918 2013-09-22 20:20:52 <Bkil> Free computer at work, laptop at home is much better but I didn't bring it today
 919 2013-09-22 20:20:56 <Luke-Jr> value testnet blocks by time (inverse) rather than work..
 920 2013-09-22 20:20:59 <michagogo> But it's really easy to mine a few testnet blocks at any time, no matter what difficulty is at, if you need to
 921 2013-09-22 20:21:12 <Luke-Jr> Bkil: so stop doing non-work stuff at work
 922 2013-09-22 20:21:18 <michagogo> Just set your clock forwards 20 minutes
 923 2013-09-22 20:21:44 <gmaxwell> michagogo: a few... I wish there were some charts of testnet hashrate based on testnet timestamps, they'd be halarious.
 924 2013-09-22 20:21:46 <michagogo> That works for up to 6 consecutive blocks by you
 925 2013-09-22 20:22:02 <michagogo> gmaxwell: 6 in a row, to be precise
 926 2013-09-22 20:22:11 <Bkil> Yeah, was thinking of getting a cheap usb miner for testnet. But that then makes it harder for others to use
 927 2013-09-22 20:22:16 <gmaxwell> michagogo: more if you cut the chain back and mine ahead.
 928 2013-09-22 20:22:27 <michagogo> cut the chain back and mine ahead?
 929 2013-09-22 20:22:44 <gmaxwell> michagogo: if the prior blocks were also 20m blocks you can replace them.
 930 2013-09-22 20:23:01 <michagogo> Meh -- more work involved there :-P
 931 2013-09-22 20:23:15 <gmaxwell> not much, like one line of code change and a reindex. :P
 932 2013-09-22 20:23:22 <michagogo> Right
 933 2013-09-22 20:23:33 <gmaxwell> michagogo: I replaced most of testnet3 at one point.
 934 2013-09-22 20:23:35 <Bkil> Luke-Jr: basically nothing happened today, the joy of working a small ISP Support
 935 2013-09-22 20:23:35 <michagogo> My way doesn't require any code change at all
 936 2013-09-22 20:23:49 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: git finds no signatures..
 937 2013-09-22 20:23:58 <sipa> blacklustblock RPC FTW
 938 2013-09-22 20:24:06 <sipa> blacklist
 939 2013-09-22 20:24:06 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: nm, logging master helps
 940 2013-09-22 20:24:11 <gmaxwell> "blocklust"
 941 2013-09-22 20:24:14 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: heh
 942 2013-09-22 20:26:35 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: now that I know it won't pollute git log with ASCII armor, I might sign mine XD
 943 2013-09-22 20:27:00 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: ha, yeah it's nice and easy. merges work too: git merge -S
 944 2013-09-22 20:27:31 <sipa> the question is: what is the signature intended to sign?
 945 2013-09-22 20:27:38 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
 946 2013-09-22 20:27:43 <sipa> technically,.it sigms.tje.entore histpry
 947 2013-09-22 20:27:53 <michagogo> o_O
 948 2013-09-22 20:27:55 <sipa> grr,.3.2" keybords
 949 2013-09-22 20:28:03 sacrelege has joined
 950 2013-09-22 20:28:04 * michagogo gives sipa a bottle of cat remover
 951 2013-09-22 20:28:08 <petertodd> sipa: The commit of course. Sure it signs prior ones, but you know at minimum the person intended to sign the one commit.
 952 2013-09-22 20:28:29 wallet43 has joined
 953 2013-09-22 20:28:31 <sipa> petertodd: right, that is what i mean
 954 2013-09-22 20:29:08 <sipa> the intended meaning is likely the patch effectuated by that code on the source
 955 2013-09-22 20:29:12 <michagogo> One of these days I should try to work out what the hell I have lingering on my system that's making it impossible for me to get a gpg up and running
 956 2013-09-22 20:29:26 <petertodd> sipa: The more important thing is to have a culture where master will always consist of git signed commits/merges so end-users can assume that if they don't see such a commit github is playing games...
 957 2013-09-22 20:29:44 <sipa> right
 958 2013-09-22 20:29:48 <petertodd> michagogo: The NSA on the other hand would rather you don't know...
 959 2013-09-22 20:29:57 <michagogo> lol
 960 2013-09-22 20:30:14 <michagogo> Does github show when commits are signed?
 961 2013-09-22 20:30:20 <sipa> the problem is that the merge.commits.created by.github aren't signed
 962 2013-09-22 20:30:23 <petertodd> sipa: Yeah, main problem is github integration: you'd have to git pull your merge and then do git commit --amend -S and finally git push -f Kinda ugly.
 963 2013-09-22 20:30:35 digitalmagus2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 964 2013-09-22 20:30:37 <petertodd> michagogo: No, and it'd be misleading if it did.
 965 2013-09-22 20:30:41 <michagogo> (and, will a signed commit on a fork stay signed when pulled?)
 966 2013-09-22 20:30:49 <sipa> yes
 967 2013-09-22 20:31:18 <michagogo> Anyway, it's 23:30, and I might need to wake up earlyish
 968 2013-09-22 20:31:21 <gmaxwell> petertodd: yea, it's kinda lame that github's conflict resolution is much more powerful than anything in git itself.
 969 2013-09-22 20:31:32 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it is?
 970 2013-09-22 20:31:35 <michagogo> I'll still have irccloud in here and possibly pop in, but...
 971 2013-09-22 20:31:36 <michagogo> goodnight
 972 2013-09-22 20:31:42 michagogo has quit (Quit: Client Quit)
 973 2013-09-22 20:31:52 * Luke-Jr has never seen GitHub resolve a conflict that git couldn't O.o
 974 2013-09-22 20:31:59 <sipa> same
 975 2013-09-22 20:32:00 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yes. At least thats my expirence. It will happily merge stuff that git's three way just throws its arms up for me.
 976 2013-09-22 20:32:08 <sipa> hmm
 977 2013-09-22 20:32:35 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Oh, it just calls Amazon Mechanical Turk on the backend when git's merge fails.
 978 2013-09-22 20:32:41 <gmaxwell> hahaha
 979 2013-09-22 20:33:29 <Luke-Jr> my bitcoind .git is 305 MB :o
 980 2013-09-22 20:33:32 <Luke-Jr> after gc
 981 2013-09-22 20:35:14 <sipa> 76 here
 982 2013-09-22 20:35:22 Bkil has quit (Quit: Bye)
 983 2013-09-22 20:38:16 <petertodd> sipa: speaking of signing, you still need to make a PGP signed message for your part in the coinjoin fund
 984 2013-09-22 20:38:34 <sipa> right!
 985 2013-09-22 20:38:45 <petertodd> sipa: and sign my key
 986 2013-09-22 20:39:16 <sipa> not ho
 987 2013-09-22 20:39:16 <Luke-Jr> lol
 988 2013-09-22 20:39:29 <sipa> not home right now
 989 2013-09-22 20:39:40 <sipa> i'll be back on wednesday
 990 2013-09-22 20:39:43 <petertodd> sipa: too bad, so you are a ho then?
 991 2013-09-22 20:40:54 * sipa recently learnt that americans pronounce "hoegaarden" as "ho garden"
 992 2013-09-22 20:41:07 <petertodd> ha, yeah...
 993 2013-09-22 20:41:28 <petertodd> but we like to say things the way we want them to be
 994 2013-09-22 20:41:40 * Luke-Jr interpreted it as "not happening online" :P
 995 2013-09-22 20:41:49 <sipa> (it's much closer to "who harden", in dutch")
 996 2013-09-22 20:42:00 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: what are you, a Catholic?
 997 2013-09-22 20:42:08 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: huh?
 998 2013-09-22 20:42:28 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: You're obviously of a clean mind. :)
 999 2013-09-22 20:43:03 <Luke-Jr> :p
1000 2013-09-22 20:47:33 da2ce7 has joined
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1011 2013-09-22 21:17:49 <warren> wumpus: I'll propose the standard win32 gitian to be amd64-hosted, it is likely to be faster than i386 hosted, and can be reused for win64 builds
1012 2013-09-22 21:20:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Are there CPUs that do hardware-assisted virtualization but not 64-bit?
1013 2013-09-22 21:20:17 <warren> michagogo|cloud: very very  rare
1014 2013-09-22 21:20:22 <warren> michagogo|cloud: and screw them
1015 2013-09-22 21:20:29 <Luke-Jr> they exist? :o
1016 2013-09-22 21:20:31 patcon has joined
1017 2013-09-22 21:20:33 <warren> es
1018 2013-09-22 21:20:33 <warren> yes
1019 2013-09-22 21:20:39 <Luke-Jr> 64-bit was like 3 years before hw virt XD
1020 2013-09-22 21:21:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also: what about people who have 32-bit installed?
1021 2013-09-22 21:21:26 <warren> michagogo|cloud: too bad, I think
1022 2013-09-22 21:21:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm...
1023 2013-09-22 21:21:39 <warren> michagogo|cloud: htey already can't do gitian linux64
1024 2013-09-22 21:21:44 <warren> so they aren't that useful
1025 2013-09-22 21:21:52 <gmaxwell> ... why not?
1026 2013-09-22 21:22:12 <gmaxwell> I've cross compiled to x86_64 from i386 before.
1027 2013-09-22 21:22:14 <warren> does debootstrap run any of the payload when it installs the chroot?
1028 2013-09-22 21:22:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: they could be if 32 and 64 were split into 2 descriptors
1029 2013-09-22 21:22:22 <warren> gmaxwell: he's complaining about the opposite
1030 2013-09-22 21:22:39 <gmaxwell> I was responding to "htey already can't do gitian linux64"
1031 2013-09-22 21:22:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: Wait, what?
1032 2013-09-22 21:23:00 <warren> gmaxwell: 32bit kernel host
1033 2013-09-22 21:23:06 <gmaxwell> warren: so?
1034 2013-09-22 21:23:19 <warren> michagogo|cloud: maybe I misunderstood you, but you are asking about things that are not important.
1035 2013-09-22 21:23:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'm saying, "what about people who have a 32-bit OS installed?
1036 2013-09-22 21:23:39 <Luke-Jr> 32-bit userspace can run 64-bit KVM target just fine with hw accel
1037 2013-09-22 21:23:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh
1038 2013-09-22 21:23:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Really?
1039 2013-09-22 21:23:52 <gmaxwell> warren: at least in theory you should be able to compile the 64 bit binaries from i386.
1040 2013-09-22 21:23:55 <warren> Luke-Jr: only if the host kernel is 64bit
1041 2013-09-22 21:23:57 <Luke-Jr> just need a 64-bit kernel
1042 2013-09-22 21:24:02 <Luke-Jr> which you should have anyway
1043 2013-09-22 21:24:12 <warren> what distro ships that way?
1044 2013-09-22 21:24:20 <Luke-Jr> warren: what distro doesn't? :p
1045 2013-09-22 21:24:22 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: but I don't think we give a crap about 32 bit hosts running gitian in any case.
1046 2013-09-22 21:24:25 <warren> Luke-Jr: x86-64 doesn't benefit as much from 32bit userspace like older archs
1047 2013-09-22 21:24:29 <gmaxwell> warren: fedora, for example.
1048 2013-09-22 21:24:36 <warren> gmaxwell: eh?
1049 2013-09-22 21:24:45 <Luke-Jr> warren: on the contrary, 32-bit userspace is preferable IMO
1050 2013-09-22 21:24:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Do any Linux distorts ship 64-bit kernel and 32-bit userland?
1051 2013-09-22 21:24:54 <warren> gmaxwell: the multiarch userspace on x86-64 fedora is incomplete
1052 2013-09-22 21:25:02 <warren> gmaxwell: only enough to build stuff against
1053 2013-09-22 21:25:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(-autocowrecks)
1054 2013-09-22 21:25:05 <gmaxwell> wtf are you talking about?
1055 2013-09-22 21:25:12 <gmaxwell> warren: IIRC i686 fedora uses an x86_64 kernel since F17
1056 2013-09-22 21:25:13 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: yes
1057 2013-09-22 21:25:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which?
1058 2013-09-22 21:25:36 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: Debian does, Gentoo supports it (all kernels are manually compiled on Gentoo)
1059 2013-09-22 21:25:40 <Luke-Jr> apparently Fedora too
1060 2013-09-22 21:25:40 <warren> gmaxwell: ok... I totally wasn't aware of that.  I guess it picks the correct kernel during install?
1061 2013-09-22 21:25:42 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1062 2013-09-22 21:26:15 <gmaxwell> warren: /me checking to see if they actually made the change (I argued against it)
1063 2013-09-22 21:26:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Am I thinking about something else, or did gitian-builder recommend Ununtu?
1064 2013-09-22 21:26:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unintu*
1065 2013-09-22 21:26:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bah
1066 2013-09-22 21:26:44 <warren> gmaxwell: I did a fedora 19 32bit install recently and got a i686 kernel
1067 2013-09-22 21:26:48 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: Ubuntu is just a Debian knockoff anyway
1068 2013-09-22 21:26:51 Dyaheon- has joined
1069 2013-09-22 21:27:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google site:github.com inurl:gitian-builder
1070 2013-09-22 21:27:02 <gribble> devrandom/gitian-builder · GitHub: <https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder>; devrandom/gitian-builder - GitHub: <https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/27>; freicoin/contrib/vagrant/patch/gitian-builder-69bd6a53.patch at ...: <https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin/blob/master/contrib/vagrant/patch/gitian-builder-69bd6a53.patch>
1071 2013-09-22 21:27:15 <warren> michagogo|cloud: works with anything that has dpkg, debootstrap, apt-cacher-ng, etc.
1072 2013-09-22 21:27:20 <warren> michagogo|cloud: ported to Fedora and Gentoo
1073 2013-09-22 21:28:11 <warren> Luke-Jr: I vaguely recall us doing benchmarks of <various things> with x86-64 kernel with 32bit vs 64bit userspace and performance wasn't better with 32bit userspace, maybe a little memory savings.
1074 2013-09-22 21:28:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Spinal Tap is a great movie, but not my favorite. michagogo : I told you why 'weight 11' -- because eleven is my favorite number.
1075 2013-09-22 21:28:52 <sipa> warren: try bitcoin signature verification on 32 and 64 bit :)
1076 2013-09-22 21:28:52 <Luke-Jr> warren: performance isn't better, correct
1077 2013-09-22 21:29:07 <Luke-Jr> warren: pointers use up half the memory though
1078 2013-09-22 21:29:21 <warren> Luke-Jr: in bitcoin?
1079 2013-09-22 21:29:25 <Luke-Jr> in 32-bit
1080 2013-09-22 21:29:39 Dyaheon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1081 2013-09-22 21:29:45 <Luke-Jr> for performance, you need to distinguish between i386, i686, and x32
1082 2013-09-22 21:29:45 <gavinandresen> all: RE: gitian signature weights, real identities, etc-- go nuts painting that shed.  I don't care.
1083 2013-09-22 21:29:50 * warren still hasn't figured out why bitcoind uses like 100-200MB more RAM on fedora than ubuntu.
1084 2013-09-22 21:30:18 <Luke-Jr> sipa: does libsecpwhatever support x32 properly? :P
1085 2013-09-22 21:30:24 <gmaxwell> warren: please stop saying that!
1086 2013-09-22 21:30:33 <warren> gmaxwell: it's true
1087 2013-09-22 21:30:49 <gmaxwell> warren:  1679 gmaxwell  20   0 1828888 192456   6020 S   1.3  2.4  16:16.15 bitcoind
1088 2013-09-22 21:30:54 <gmaxwell> IT IS NOT TRUE.
1089 2013-09-22 21:31:16 <warren> huh
1090 2013-09-22 21:31:25 <warren> bitcoind never uses anywhere near that amount of RAM here
1091 2013-09-22 21:31:32 <warren> it's like 400-500MB here
1092 2013-09-22 21:31:41 <Luke-Jr> bitcoind or litecoind?
1093 2013-09-22 21:31:43 <warren> gmaxwell: is that a local build or gitian?
1094 2013-09-22 21:31:46 <warren> Luke-Jr: both
1095 2013-09-22 21:31:47 <gmaxwell> the gitian static builds use more. The specification matters. I watched someone tell someone else not to run bitcoin on fedora the other day on the basis of your comments!
1096 2013-09-22 21:32:07 <bizoro> lol
1097 2013-09-22 21:32:08 patcon has joined
1098 2013-09-22 21:32:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: Is there an actual reason to put it at 11, besides personal preference? :-P
1099 2013-09-22 21:32:31 <gavinandresen> michagogo|cloud: "feels about right" ???
1100 2013-09-22 21:32:36 <Luke-Jr> if only we had someone willing to maintain a Fedora repo for native bitcoind/-qt builds :P
1101 2013-09-22 21:32:48 <gmaxwell> It's something thats a side effect of the gitian process, I'd guess some bug in bdb or boost thats patched in fedora triggering libc or pthreads misbehavior that only exists in fedora.
1102 2013-09-22 21:32:59 darknyan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1103 2013-09-22 21:33:05 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Not really viable so long as it requires patching openssl.
1104 2013-09-22 21:33:12 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: I think Gavin is trying to convey "it's not that important" :p
1105 2013-09-22 21:33:14 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Otherwise I'd be doing it.
1106 2013-09-22 21:33:14 nisili has quit ()
1107 2013-09-22 21:33:15 <warren> Luke-Jr: none of us is willing to maintain a repo with the requisite openssl, and secp256k1 to replace it isn't ready
1108 2013-09-22 21:33:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: can't static link just the EC?
1109 2013-09-22 21:33:44 <rdymac> !seen Skinnkavaj
1110 2013-09-22 21:33:44 <gribble> Skinnkavaj was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 4 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: ihas NSA planted a backdoor in SHA256?
1111 2013-09-22 21:33:52 <warren> Luke-Jr: I made such a stripped down EC-only lib before but then secp256k1 happened
1112 2013-09-22 21:33:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: Idk -- it's an interesting question. petertodd does have a good point, in that there's not a lot of me all over the Internet
1113 2013-09-22 21:34:00 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: could statically link openssl, but thats pretty ugly.
1114 2013-09-22 21:34:57 <Luke-Jr> would Fedora make a patch that adds EC back in minus only the actually-patented stuff? <.<
1115 2013-09-22 21:34:59 <Luke-Jr> take*
1116 2013-09-22 21:35:08 <gmaxwell> warren: incidentally, I'm incorrect, looks like Fedora dropped the move to x86_64 kernels on i585 during a beta. https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Features/ArchitectureSupport&oldid=82905
1117 2013-09-22 21:35:16 pierre` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1118 2013-09-22 21:35:30 <warren> ok
1119 2013-09-22 21:35:50 <warren> have any distros shipped real x32?
1120 2013-09-22 21:35:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: they don't even support it as an option? :o
1121 2013-09-22 21:36:03 <Luke-Jr> warren: Debian seems to support it now
1122 2013-09-22 21:36:04 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1123 2013-09-22 21:36:13 <gmaxwell> x32 is another matter (different abi entirely), I think gentoo can build that way though.
1124 2013-09-22 21:36:34 <Luke-Jr> just sid/unstable for Debian
1125 2013-09-22 21:36:38 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1126 2013-09-22 21:36:42 <warren> Luke-Jr: I haven't been there for a while, but I doubt they would do something that has no performance benefit.  x32 might be worthwhile except nobody wants to support it.
1127 2013-09-22 21:36:49 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: no clue. it's actually really hard to search for.
1128 2013-09-22 21:37:07 <sipa> i don't know enough about x32
1129 2013-09-22 21:37:11 <gmaxwell> x32 is terrible. "because we want to have _three_ copies of every library in memory"
1130 2013-09-22 21:37:16 <Luke-Jr> warren: x32 has quite a bit of performance benefit
1131 2013-09-22 21:37:17 darknyan has joined
1132 2013-09-22 21:37:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's just x86_64 with 32 bit pointers.
1133 2013-09-22 21:37:25 <sipa> would the x86_64 assembly work?
1134 2013-09-22 21:37:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: probably
1135 2013-09-22 21:38:02 <sipa> oh, it takes 3 pointers as arguments
1136 2013-09-22 21:38:09 <sipa> in 64-bit registers
1137 2013-09-22 21:38:14 <gmaxwell> sipa: inline x86_64 asm would work if it wasn't doing any pointer arith. External, — with minor changes, as the pointers are a different size.
1138 2013-09-22 21:38:15 <sipa> does it just use the lower 32-bit bit?
1139 2013-09-22 21:38:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: for pointers in registers, I believe so.
1140 2013-09-22 21:38:59 <sipa> it does do pointer arithmetic
1141 2013-09-22 21:39:03 <warren> I suppose 32bit pointers with double GPR's is the benefit, but most distros don't want to deal with supporting yet another set of libraries and none of the media plugins will work.
1142 2013-09-22 21:39:48 <Luke-Jr> warren: why not?
1143 2013-09-22 21:39:50 <sipa> but it's just dereferencing ptr, ptr+8, ptr+16, ...
1144 2013-09-22 21:40:11 <warren> Luke-Jr: well, I suppose it could, if they ship multiarch, but then that's three archs
1145 2013-09-22 21:40:14 <gmaxwell> warren: it just stinks because there are plenty of cases where you actually can make good use of >32 bits of address space. And so the world stays in the bad state of having multiple copies of libaries in memory, killing the memory savings advantage.
1146 2013-09-22 21:40:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: probably trivial to make it work then.
1147 2013-09-22 21:40:23 <Luke-Jr> warren: multiarch is silly. pure x32 should be fine
1148 2013-09-22 21:40:46 * sipa brings up the legacy argument
1149 2013-09-22 21:40:52 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: do you have an x32 system to try sipa's secp256k1 stuff on?
1150 2013-09-22 21:41:02 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not yet, but I could setup a chroot pretty easily I bet
1151 2013-09-22 21:41:14 <sipa> you may need to create a config.mk yourself (or copy from a 64-bit run)
1152 2013-09-22 21:41:23 <warren> sipa: I have 32bit secp256k1 in gitian linux now, I haven't benchmarked it.
1153 2013-09-22 21:41:39 <sipa> i know x86 works
1154 2013-09-22 21:41:49 <gmaxwell> yea, works fine. Not terribly fast.
1155 2013-09-22 21:41:59 <sipa> but it's around 4 times slower than x86_64 on the same system
1156 2013-09-22 21:42:01 <warren> faster than openssl though?
1157 2013-09-22 21:42:08 <warren> you gave numbers before
1158 2013-09-22 21:42:09 <warren> lost it
1159 2013-09-22 21:42:09 <sipa> yes
1160 2013-09-22 21:42:13 <gmaxwell> yea, it's faster than openssl.
1161 2013-09-22 21:42:14 <Luke-Jr> secp256k1 doesn't use asm on i686?
1162 2013-09-22 21:42:17 <sipa> no
1163 2013-09-22 21:42:25 <Luke-Jr> aww
1164 2013-09-22 21:42:34 <sipa> feel free to write it
1165 2013-09-22 21:42:42 <sipa> :p
1166 2013-09-22 21:42:53 <warren> I'm giving up on the gitian 10.04 toolchains.  all kinds of things aren't supported and win32 miscompiles something in the SSE2.  12.04 works.
1167 2013-09-22 21:42:53 <Luke-Jr> well, that's *why* it's 4x slower :P
1168 2013-09-22 21:42:55 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: one of the major optimizations needs 64x64->128 in any case, which i686 doesn't have.
1169 2013-09-22 21:43:10 nilisi has joined
1170 2013-09-22 21:43:18 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1171 2013-09-22 21:43:29 <sipa> Luke-Jr: sure, also, a lot less time was spent on finding an efficient number representation
1172 2013-09-22 21:43:38 <sipa> i just took the one i did for 64-bit, and cut it in two
1173 2013-09-22 21:43:45 BCBot` has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1174 2013-09-22 21:43:46 <sipa> it may be far from optimal
1175 2013-09-22 21:43:46 BCBot has joined
1176 2013-09-22 21:44:33 <warren> and annoyingly, apple's cpuid.h differs entirely from GNU cpuid.h
1177 2013-09-22 21:44:44 <warren> so I'm back to just using inline asm for cpuid.
1178 2013-09-22 21:44:50 <knotwork> I did a git pull and all of a suddent bitcoin now uses autoconf system? But configure says it found boost-chrono yet cannot use it. I am on Fedora 17
1179 2013-09-22 21:45:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: yeah
1180 2013-09-22 21:45:21 <knotwork> yum doesn't get me any updates for boost either
1181 2013-09-22 21:45:28 <gmaxwell> knotwork: do you intend to be using a bleeding edge, untested, development snapshot?
1182 2013-09-22 21:45:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: Is there a reason you want master?
1183 2013-09-22 21:45:37 <warren> knotwork: fedora 17 is unsupported, upgrade
1184 2013-09-22 21:45:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If not, `git checkout v0.8.5`
1185 2013-09-22 21:46:00 <gmaxwell> knotwork: can you pastebin more of the error?
1186 2013-09-22 21:46:15 <knotwork> I usually use what git pull gives me, yeah
1187 2013-09-22 21:46:29 <gmaxwell> I don't think there is any reason we shouldn't work on F17 in any case.
1188 2013-09-22 21:46:43 <knotwork> the reason I wanted to build a new bitcoind was, my p2pool has not been able talk to bitcoind for over 9 hours
1189 2013-09-22 21:46:52 <sipa> why?
1190 2013-09-22 21:47:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: You do *not* want to be using HEAD on master for mining
1191 2013-09-22 21:47:11 <knotwork> the debug.log shows people on localhost connecting to bitcoin and not saying anything
1192 2013-09-22 21:47:24 <sipa> knotwork: what version are you on?
1193 2013-09-22 21:47:35 <gmaxwell> knotwork: you should NOT be using git HEAD for that. git checkout v0.8.5
1194 2013-09-22 21:47:45 <knotwork> so I figured maybe my bitcoind got clobbered by some attack or bug that was recently fixed as forum said a new fix was out recently
1195 2013-09-22 21:47:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: v0.8.5
1196 2013-09-22 21:47:55 <sipa> knotwork: what version are you on?
1197 2013-09-22 21:47:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That is that fix.
1198 2013-09-22 21:48:27 <knotwork> I ended up having to kill -9 to kill bitcoind maybe debug.log might tell me what version it was though
1199 2013-09-22 21:48:39 <sipa> yes, it will
1200 2013-09-22 21:48:45 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1201 2013-09-22 21:48:47 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1202 2013-09-22 21:49:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: probably not, due to rotation, if he was up for a long time.
1203 2013-09-22 21:49:12 <sipa> he can start it again
1204 2013-09-22 21:49:17 fanquake has left ()
1205 2013-09-22 21:49:17 <sipa> knotwork: you're very welcome to run git head to help testing
1206 2013-09-22 21:49:22 <sipa> knotwork: but don't mine on it
1207 2013-09-22 21:49:50 <sipa> and at least 1) upgrade frequently (things break and get fixed frequently) and 2) know what you are running
1208 2013-09-22 21:49:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Doesn't git head actually have a message, "don't use for mining or merchant applications"?
1209 2013-09-22 21:49:59 agnostic98 has joined
1210 2013-09-22 21:50:01 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: yes
1211 2013-09-22 21:50:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or is that just in -Qt?
1212 2013-09-22 21:50:16 <sipa> bitcoind has it too, in getinfo
1213 2013-09-22 21:50:16 random_cat has joined
1214 2013-09-22 21:50:19 <sipa> reported as an error
1215 2013-09-22 21:50:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah
1216 2013-09-22 21:50:33 <knotwork> debug.log gets rotated now? it always used to jsut grow forever until I killed it, not even rotating on start of bitcoind
1217 2013-09-22 21:50:50 <sipa> knotwork: if you enable -debug, it doesn't get rotated
1218 2013-09-22 21:50:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: libsecp requires yasm even when not used? XD
1219 2013-09-22 21:50:59 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no
1220 2013-09-22 21:51:09 <knotwork> yeah it has always since way back said dont use for commerce or mining
1221 2013-09-22 21:51:15 <sipa> Luke-Jr: my configure script is ad-hoc and silly
1222 2013-09-22 21:51:34 <sipa> Luke-Jr: but if you conjure up a config.mk that doesn't need yasm, it should build fine
1223 2013-09-22 21:51:37 <knotwork> but I seldom have much problem, and emailed gmax the debug.log last time I had a problem, to help test/fix/etc
1224 2013-09-22 21:52:05 <sipa> knotwork: not you
1225 2013-09-22 21:52:12 <Luke-Jr> sipa:  -o /dev/null is risky :P
1226 2013-09-22 21:52:17 <knotwork> ok I jsut did that checkout command will try build now
1227 2013-09-22 21:52:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: ...don't be using git head for anything important.
1228 2013-09-22 21:52:34 <sipa> knotwork: if there is a forking bug in git head, and many miners would run such a git head version, we may have a big problem
1229 2013-09-22 21:52:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|For anything like mining, you *always* want to be using a release version
1230 2013-09-22 21:53:27 waddlesplash has joined
1231 2013-09-22 21:53:27 <knotwork> who gonna test that mining isnt broken in head then? I thought by running latest I was helping test
1232 2013-09-22 21:53:42 nilisi has quit ()
1233 2013-09-22 21:53:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: There's testnet for that :-D
1234 2013-09-22 21:53:49 <sipa> apparently you're not running latest, and you don't even know what exactly you're running
1235 2013-09-22 21:54:06 <gmaxwell> sipa: he can't build latest due to some autotools issue.
1236 2013-09-22 21:54:23 <sipa> ok, that is an interesting report!
1237 2013-09-22 21:54:46 waddlesplash has left ()
1238 2013-09-22 21:54:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, mining doesn't usually need to be specially tested unless changes happen in mining or validation code (unless I'm wrong about that)
1239 2013-09-22 21:54:50 <sipa> so please, you're very welcome to run/build/try git head
1240 2013-09-22 21:54:54 waddlesplash has joined
1241 2013-09-22 21:55:06 <Luke-Jr> i386:x64-32 <-- wtf, who thought up this identifier?
1242 2013-09-22 21:55:22 <sipa> but the warning for no mining/merchant purposes is there for a reason
1243 2013-09-22 21:55:52 <knotwork> Luke haha weird one
1244 2013-09-22 21:55:57 <waddlesplash> Luke-Jr: woah, what's that on
1245 2013-09-22 21:56:09 <sipa> Luke-Jr: what is it for x86 and x86_64?
1246 2013-09-22 21:56:34 <waddlesplash> sipa: and i686 is NOT 64-bit. It's still 32-bit
1247 2013-09-22 21:56:45 <sipa> waddlesplash: sure, i know
1248 2013-09-22 21:56:51 <Luke-Jr> waddlesplash: x32
1249 2013-09-22 21:57:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not sure
1250 2013-09-22 21:57:06 <knotwork> well until I picked up some USB eruptors recently I wasn't exactly a major miner, and still am not, so even losing 9 hours that likely under ten bucks
1251 2013-09-22 21:57:11 <sipa> yes, it's about x32 (which is x86_64 assembly, but with 32-bit pointers)
1252 2013-09-22 21:57:19 <waddlesplash> Luke-Jr: I know that, but I've never seen that way of IDing it before.
1253 2013-09-22 21:57:26 <Luke-Jr> waddlesplash: yasm
1254 2013-09-22 21:57:34 <waddlesplash> Luke-Jr: ah.
1255 2013-09-22 21:57:42 <Luke-Jr> complaining about sipa's asm
1256 2013-09-22 21:57:43 <Luke-Jr> :P
1257 2013-09-22 21:57:55 <sipa> and rightfully so; it's for a different architecture!
1258 2013-09-22 21:57:55 <Luke-Jr> actually, maybe ld complaining about it
1259 2013-09-22 21:58:01 <knotwork> actually more like under 7 bucks, maybe 6
1260 2013-09-22 21:58:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: If I understand correctly, it's not just about personal profit loss
1261 2013-09-22 21:58:19 <sipa> knotwork: you get like 0.05 BTC in 9 hours?
1262 2013-09-22 21:58:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I mean, at the moment it is
1263 2013-09-22 21:58:37 <knotwork> well maybe 0.4# btc or something liek that
1264 2013-09-22 21:58:50 <sipa> in 9 hours? :o
1265 2013-09-22 21:58:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But on a bigger scale, if many miners run git head is coils potentially be a bad thing
1266 2013-09-22 21:58:56 <knotwork> sometimes a few hundred blocks go by without me seeing a payout transaction from p2pool
1267 2013-09-22 21:59:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;genrate 330
1268 2013-09-22 21:59:10 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 112628548.666, is 0.00147350873635 BTC per day and 6.13961973479e-05 BTC per hour.
1269 2013-09-22 21:59:16 <knotwork> then I see three within 120 blocks
1270 2013-09-22 21:59:29 <Luke-Jr> doh, I downloaded the first released x32 stage3 instead of a current one <.<
1271 2013-09-22 21:59:31 <sipa> knotwork: duh
1272 2013-09-22 21:59:37 <knotwork> I have about 28.5 GHash
1273 2013-09-22 21:59:57 <sipa> knotwork: if you find a share in p2pool, you'll on average get a payout from 3 blocks for it
1274 2013-09-22 22:00:01 <knotwork> now that I have enough hubs to actually power the eruptors better
1275 2013-09-22 22:00:06 <sipa> oh, that's more than "some erupters" :D
1276 2013-09-22 22:00:15 <knotwork> 75 erupters
1277 2013-09-22 22:00:18 <Luke-Jr> that's "an insanely silly  number of erupters"
1278 2013-09-22 22:00:22 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1279 2013-09-22 22:00:25 <knotwork> yeah luke I agree
1280 2013-09-22 22:00:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;calc (0.04 / 9) /(0.00147350873635 / 24)
1281 2013-09-22 22:00:30 <gribble> 72.3895719349
1282 2013-09-22 22:00:53 <knotwork> but nothing else was shuipping, and still might not, so who knows I might get to use them longer than anyone imagined
1283 2013-09-22 22:00:57 <sipa> ;;calc
1284 2013-09-22 22:00:57 <gribble> (calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
1285 2013-09-22 22:01:00 <sipa> ;;diff
1286 2013-09-22 22:01:01 <gribble> 1.1262854866634709E8
1287 2013-09-22 22:01:06 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: lots of ASICs are shipping
1288 2013-09-22 22:01:20 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1289 2013-09-22 22:01:26 <sipa> Luke-Jr: 0.4 BTC on 9 hours means 239GH/s
1290 2013-09-22 22:01:30 <knotwork> not to me. hopefully a saturn will come my way once KnC ships though
1291 2013-09-22 22:01:37 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1292 2013-09-22 22:01:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: How long have you had them, and what did you trade for them?
1293 2013-09-22 22:01:49 <sipa> eh, knotwork
1294 2013-09-22 22:02:08 <gmaxwell> knotwork: in any case, git checkout v0.8.5  and that'll get you back up.
1295 2013-09-22 22:02:25 <knotwork> and I really stupidly ordered a couple of singles or mini singles or something from BFL back in june or july or somethng when it seemed like they might finally be building and shipping
1296 2013-09-22 22:02:53 <Luke-Jr> >_<
1297 2013-09-22 22:02:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|knotwork: 2 months ago, or 14?
1298 2013-09-22 22:03:05 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: if it was 14, he'd have them :P
1299 2013-09-22 22:03:31 <knotwork> I traded BBQcoins for them. I closed my eyes and pretended no BTC was involved during the step where the BBQcoin momentarily turned into BTC on way to vendor
1300 2013-09-22 22:03:49 waddlesplash has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1301 2013-09-22 22:03:49 <Luke-Jr> lol
1302 2013-09-22 22:03:52 <knotwork> most of the BTC my BBQcoin turned into I retained though
1303 2013-09-22 22:04:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google bbqcoin
1304 2013-09-22 22:04:59 <gribble> BBQcoin.org | The Official Client Development Site: <http://bbqcoin.org/>; BBQCoin, the coin you want to eat. - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93437.0>; BQCPool - A BBQCoin Pool: <http://www.bqcpool.com/>
1305 2013-09-22 22:05:01 <knotwork> I had LOTS of BBQ. Still have way too many but they aren't worth the bother of selling them anymore
1306 2013-09-22 22:05:28 segy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1307 2013-09-22 22:05:57 <knotwork> I CPU mined BBQ with like one core for a year or so
1308 2013-09-22 22:06:19 <knotwork> paid more than both my 5870's doing sha all put together
1309 2013-09-22 22:07:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How much can you get for them?
1310 2013-09-22 22:07:24 <knotwork> wow yeah amazing, BFL shipped junejuly 2012 already! I;ll get my summer 2013 stuff by this time next year for sure at this rate!
1311 2013-09-22 22:07:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(And what pow do they use?)
1312 2013-09-22 22:07:33 segy has joined
1313 2013-09-22 22:07:45 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: that doesn't follow; BFL is shipping faster than realtime
1314 2013-09-22 22:07:57 <sipa> Luke-Jr: ?
1315 2013-09-22 22:08:08 <knotwork> BBQcoin are crappy price now. I started selling before they got on any exchanges, was getting like 7 BTC per 100k, then gradually down to maybe 4 BTC per 100k
1316 2013-09-22 22:08:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: "by this time next year"
1317 2013-09-22 22:08:17 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ?
1318 2013-09-22 22:08:20 <knotwork> but now they are 621 satoshis per coin
1319 2013-09-22 22:08:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Per 100k? O_o
1320 2013-09-22 22:08:30 <sipa> knotwork: this is not #altcoin-dev
1321 2013-09-22 22:08:35 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: typical for altcoins.
1322 2013-09-22 22:08:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How big are the coinbases?
1323 2013-09-22 22:08:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: right, sorry
1324 2013-09-22 22:08:49 viperhr has joined
1325 2013-09-22 22:09:09 <knotwork> Luke I am being cautious in guestimating BFL catchup times. I know they will arrive in two weeks as I've always know, I just dont know what month that will end up meaning ;)
1326 2013-09-22 22:10:14 <knotwork> No the point was simply I didn't blow BTC on erupters, I threw crap away to get them
1327 2013-09-22 22:11:50 <Luke-Jr> haha
1328 2013-09-22 22:12:15 <knotwork> and also to gamble on BFL and KnC
1329 2013-09-22 22:12:49 <warren> BFL appears to be having a Paypal disaster now.
1330 2013-09-22 22:13:37 jcorgan_ has joined
1331 2013-09-22 22:15:44 <Luke-Jr> sipa: "test count = 100" is the only line I get now
1332 2013-09-22 22:15:48 <knotwork> okay that version-branch checkout compiled fine I will use that
1333 2013-09-22 22:16:08 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I had to force HAVE_YASM=1 in configure, and edit Makefile to use -f elfx32 instead of -f elf64
1334 2013-09-22 22:16:17 <knotwork> it will get any bugfixes so I can just keep pulling that to keep up to date with stable bitcoind?
1335 2013-09-22 22:17:16 <sipa> knotwork: no, v0.8.5 is v0.8.5
1336 2013-09-22 22:17:31 <Luke-Jr> sipa: do you need patches, or is that enough info to go on?
1337 2013-09-22 22:17:42 <knotwork> so where will bugfixs for it go?
1338 2013-09-22 22:17:45 <sipa> when 0.8.6 would be released (unlikely, i think, but who knows), checkout v0.8.6 will get you that
1339 2013-09-22 22:17:52 <sipa> otherwise, wait for 0.9.0
1340 2013-09-22 22:17:54 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: 0.8.x in the stable repo most likely
1341 2013-09-22 22:18:08 <Luke-Jr> unless we have some other excuse to do a critical bugfix update
1342 2013-09-22 22:18:10 <warren> Luke-Jr: is that official or just your repo?
1343 2013-09-22 22:18:19 <gmaxwell> "official" ?
1344 2013-09-22 22:18:19 <knotwork> its a whole different repo? not gavin's bitcoin-git ?
1345 2013-09-22 22:18:21 <Luke-Jr> warren: as official as anything is (not at all)
1346 2013-09-22 22:18:30 <warren> sipa: we have patches for secp256k1/configure for mac but been too busy to finish/submit it
1347 2013-09-22 22:18:36 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: no, gavin's git is for gavin's changes to master
1348 2013-09-22 22:18:55 <knotwork> how can I get git to tell me what URL it pulls from?
1349 2013-09-22 22:19:01 <Luke-Jr> git remote show origin
1350 2013-09-22 22:19:08 <Luke-Jr> s/origin/any remote name/
1351 2013-09-22 22:19:15 <gavinandresen> … or just git remote -v
1352 2013-09-22 22:19:25 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: oooh, nice
1353 2013-09-22 22:19:26 <knotwork> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
1354 2013-09-22 22:19:36 <warren> sipa: will it be replaced with autotools?
1355 2013-09-22 22:19:54 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: git remote add stable git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable.git && git fetch stable
1356 2013-09-22 22:19:54 <sipa> warren: yeah, if someone does that (cfields said he would, but no priority now)
1357 2013-09-22 22:20:05 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: but if 0.8.x is pushed there, it isn't up to date with 0.8.5 yet
1358 2013-09-22 22:20:23 <sipa> knotwork: in any case, for now, 0.8.* is maintained fully in bitcoin/bitcoin.git
1359 2013-09-22 22:20:29 <sipa> until 0.9 is released
1360 2013-09-22 22:21:06 <Luke-Jr> sipa: for some definitions of "fully" :P
1361 2013-09-22 22:21:19 <Luke-Jr> 0.8.x branch does already have fixes that weren't important enough for 0.8.5
1362 2013-09-22 22:21:45 <warren> thought you said you pulled only critical fixes into backports
1363 2013-09-22 22:21:59 <sipa> Luke-Jr: can you make bench; time ./bench ?
1364 2013-09-22 22:22:23 <sipa> and ideally, do the same on a x86_64 system on the same hardware
1365 2013-09-22 22:22:54 <knotwork> init message: Loading wallet...
1366 2013-09-22 22:22:54 <knotwork> Error reading wallet database: CPrivKey pubkey inconsistency
1367 2013-09-22 22:23:07 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no such program
1368 2013-09-22 22:23:17 jcorgan has left ()
1369 2013-09-22 22:23:18 <knotwork> hmm is that something it proceeds to fix? as the log is still going, it didnt stop on account of it
1370 2013-09-22 22:23:44 <sipa> Luke-Jr: ?
1371 2013-09-22 22:23:56 <sipa> doesn't 'make bench' create it?
1372 2013-09-22 22:23:57 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: does the make fail?
1373 2013-09-22 22:24:08 <knotwork> Error loading wallet.dat: Wallet corrupted
1374 2013-09-22 22:24:19 <knotwork> Yet is is still running, scanning blockchain now
1375 2013-09-22 22:24:26 <gmaxwell> knotwork: are you using the wallet on that host?
1376 2013-09-22 22:24:30 jcorgan_ has quit (Quit: jcorgan_)
1377 2013-09-22 22:24:40 <knotwork> only to collect what p2pool yields
1378 2013-09-22 22:24:45 <Luke-Jr> knotwork: 0.8.x updated with the v0.8.5 fix just now FWIW
1379 2013-09-22 22:24:47 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: no
1380 2013-09-22 22:24:53 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I didn't run make bench :P
1381 2013-09-22 22:24:54 <warren> knotwork: if you were using certain pre-autotools master (not 0.8.x) some keys generated by it are incompatible with 0.8.x
1382 2013-09-22 22:24:56 <knotwork> and over 9 hours ago was likely about the time I shipped all the coins there home
1383 2013-09-22 22:25:01 <gmaxwell> knotwork: because you were running random git checkouts your prior version was one that screwed up the wallet.
1384 2013-09-22 22:25:23 <gmaxwell> knotwork: which means you need to run some annoying patch in order to read your wallet now.
1385 2013-09-22 22:25:46 <knotwork> well I sent all the coins, and the timing on when p2pool lost touch with bitcoind looks like it was right about when those coins went out
1386 2013-09-22 22:25:48 * warren makes 0.8.5-annoyingpatch branch
1387 2013-09-22 22:25:48 Internet13 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1388 2013-09-22 22:25:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it doesn't build on my amd64 chroot O.o
1389 2013-09-22 22:26:04 <sipa> oh?
1390 2013-09-22 22:26:11 <Luke-Jr> /secp256k1/src/impl/num_gmp.h:328: undefined reference to `mpn_copyi'
1391 2013-09-22 22:26:22 <knotwork> its extremely unlikely p2pool sent any more coins after I shipped them all out but before p2pool lost touch
1392 2013-09-22 22:26:44 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1393 2013-09-22 22:26:57 <sipa> Luke-Jr: hmm, incompatible gmp?
1394 2013-09-22 22:26:58 <Luke-Jr> --no-gmp doesn't work either :P
1395 2013-09-22 22:27:01 <warren> knotwork: hold on, i'm making a branch for you
1396 2013-09-22 22:27:17 <gmaxwell> warren: or just give him the patch.
1397 2013-09-22 22:27:23 digitalmagus2 has joined
1398 2013-09-22 22:27:38 <knotwork> oh its a known wallet-corruption problem?
1399 2013-09-22 22:27:56 <sipa> knotwork: yeah, there was a bug some time ago in master that corrupted keys
1400 2013-09-22 22:28:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: how long should bench take?
1401 2013-09-22 22:28:14 <sipa> Luke-Jr: hmm, runs in 30s here
1402 2013-09-22 22:28:20 <gmaxwell> knotwork: yes. it was a bug in master (an unreleased version) .. reasons not to just casually run master.
1403 2013-09-22 22:28:22 <knotwork> debug.log is showing lots of add to wallet lines now as it rescans the blockchain
1404 2013-09-22 22:28:38 <gmaxwell> knotwork: why are you rescanning the blockchain?
1405 2013-09-22 22:28:48 <knotwork> Well excuse me for trying to be helpful by running master :) :D
1406 2013-09-22 22:29:08 <knotwork> I have rescan in my start scripts in case reason for start is power corp rebooting machine
1407 2013-09-22 22:29:19 <Luke-Jr> …
1408 2013-09-22 22:29:30 <sipa> it will automatically rescan as necessary
1409 2013-09-22 22:29:33 <sipa> since some time
1410 2013-09-22 22:29:42 <gmaxwell> since like 0.3.something.
1411 2013-09-22 22:29:56 <knotwork> oh really? okay I will remove that in modern-code coin start scripts then
1412 2013-09-22 22:30:01 <sipa> well there was a bug until much more recently where some parts could be skipped
1413 2013-09-22 22:30:19 Internet13 has joined
1414 2013-09-22 22:30:43 <gmaxwell> we really should rename rescan. make it require an ecdsa signature from sipa with your IP address, if the recorded height is already above x.
1415 2013-09-22 22:30:51 <sipa> lol
1416 2013-09-22 22:31:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: 2m2s on amd64
1417 2013-09-22 22:31:18 <Luke-Jr> x32 still going..
1418 2013-09-22 22:31:25 <Luke-Jr> 2m2s on x32
1419 2013-09-22 22:31:32 <Luke-Jr> (guess I started them at different times)
1420 2013-09-22 22:31:42 <Luke-Jr> wait no, I just was looking at the wrong window
1421 2013-09-22 22:31:45 <Luke-Jr> x32 isn't done yret
1422 2013-09-22 22:31:45 <knotwork> oops I did finally die, and my autorestartit script started it over again
1423 2013-09-22 22:31:46 <warren> gmaxwell: I think you need 4 patches for this to work on 0.8.5, we're shipping all of them in litecoin
1424 2013-09-22 22:31:54 <gmaxwell> 4 patches?!
1425 2013-09-22 22:32:06 <Luke-Jr> warren: what? O.o
1426 2013-09-22 22:32:09 <sipa> knotwork: "die" ?
1427 2013-09-22 22:32:14 <sipa> knotwork: what happened?
1428 2013-09-22 22:32:40 pecket has joined
1429 2013-09-22 22:32:46 <warren> gmaxwell: we shipped the cprivkey refactor in master in our early pre-releases to make it easier to drop-in replace secp256k1
1430 2013-09-22 22:33:09 <knotwork> after the rescan it died. maybe it had already made up its mind to due to corrupt wallet?
1431 2013-09-22 22:33:23 <knotwork> I was surprised it bothered with rescan at all once it saw wallet was bad
1432 2013-09-22 22:33:31 <sipa> oh, that could be
1433 2013-09-22 22:33:38 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1434 2013-09-22 22:33:41 <sipa> is this 0.8.5?
1435 2013-09-22 22:33:59 <knotwork> its that checkout thing up above somewhere in backstory
1436 2013-09-22 22:34:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: 4m33s from x32
1437 2013-09-22 22:34:11 <sipa> heh
1438 2013-09-22 22:34:37 <knotwork> so what is this patch I need?
1439 2013-09-22 22:34:55 <knotwork> as maybe some coins were already on the way just not mature yet
1440 2013-09-22 22:35:04 <sipa> knotwork: what version is this?
1441 2013-09-22 22:35:14 <sipa> you did git checkout v0.8.5?
1442 2013-09-22 22:35:18 <sipa> and then build?
1443 2013-09-22 22:35:35 <knotwork> yeah
1444 2013-09-22 22:35:41 justusranvier has joined
1445 2013-09-22 22:37:14 <sipa> warren: can you refresh my memory about the cprivkey refactor problem initially?
1446 2013-09-22 22:37:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: rebuilt x32 and 2m6s this time
1447 2013-09-22 22:38:18 <warren> sipa: I barely remember myself
1448 2013-09-22 22:38:34 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: whats the difference?
1449 2013-09-22 22:38:58 Thepok has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1450 2013-09-22 22:39:13 <sipa> Luke-Jr: oh, i was wrong; i was running a sign-only bench here, not the same one as you
1451 2013-09-22 22:39:15 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I guess the make clean in between
1452 2013-09-22 22:39:16 <sipa> let me rerun
1453 2013-09-22 22:39:21 <Luke-Jr> brb
1454 2013-09-22 22:39:37 <Luke-Jr> OH, and this time I made sure I used OpenSSL
1455 2013-09-22 22:39:40 <warren> sipa: this is bitcoin-0.8.3 with a bunch of backports from master that we shipped in litecoin-0.8.3.x ending with the fix you added to master that stops creating corrupt keys
1456 2013-09-22 22:39:41 <Luke-Jr> the 4m was GMP
1457 2013-09-22 22:39:56 <gmaxwell> weird. gmp was slower?
1458 2013-09-22 22:40:40 <sipa> maybe x32 GMP doesn't use optimized assembly?
1459 2013-09-22 22:41:07 <sipa> i get 1m30s here
1460 2013-09-22 22:42:17 <warren> sipa: oops, forgot to paste URL https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/commits/exp-btc09backports
1461 2013-09-22 22:42:41 <warren> knotwork: https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys
1462 2013-09-22 22:42:59 <knotwork> thanks
1463 2013-09-22 22:43:03 <warren> knotwork: untested, but that's the patches we shipped in litecoin-0.8.x that broke it in the same way and fixed it with the last patch
1464 2013-09-22 22:43:12 <sipa> knotwork: or just restore a wallet backup
1465 2013-09-22 22:44:11 <gmaxwell> sipa: right, but IIRC on x86_64 you were getting much faster with gmp than openssl.  Luke seems to be getting x32+openssl ~= x86_64+gmp. Which only makes sense if openssl has 32 bit asm getting used on x32 while gmp has x86_64 asm not getting used on x32.
1466 2013-09-22 22:44:22 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1467 2013-09-22 22:44:26 <knotwork> the wallet is on a third party server so I went with transfering the coins out regularly over backing up often
1468 2013-09-22 22:44:48 <gmaxwell> knotwork: as an aside— why don't you just mine to an external address?
1469 2013-09-22 22:45:07 <warren> knotwork: p2pool doesn't even require a wallet in the local bitcoind
1470 2013-09-22 22:45:12 <knotwork> yeah I am now planning to give p2pool an address instead of username when I start it back up
1471 2013-09-22 22:45:24 Skav has joined
1472 2013-09-22 22:45:35 <warren> knotwork: don't send it to an exchange address =)
1473 2013-09-22 22:45:39 <knotwork> originally I had figured a username would make me stand out from the crowd to find my graphs easily
1474 2013-09-22 22:45:54 <sipa> from which crows?
1475 2013-09-22 22:45:56 <sipa> *crowd
1476 2013-09-22 22:46:04 <knotwork> but ended up not using it as a public merged mining pool afterall so no one else there to stand out from
1477 2013-09-22 22:46:32 pecket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1478 2013-09-22 22:46:50 <knotwork> the idea was that the offered bounty would elicit code that would divvy up merged mined coins and the pool would be used by other people not just me
1479 2013-09-22 22:46:58 <knotwork> bounty didnt elicit such code though
1480 2013-09-22 22:47:59 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1481 2013-09-22 22:48:20 <sipa> i have no clue what you're talking about
1482 2013-09-22 22:48:33 <gmaxwell> sipa: p2pool crap
1483 2013-09-22 22:48:38 <knotwork> https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys is a huge list of patches not a single patch, do I need the whole lot?
1484 2013-09-22 22:48:40 <gmaxwell> he was making his p2pool node public
1485 2013-09-22 22:48:51 <knotwork> you dont like p2pool ?
1486 2013-09-22 22:49:02 <warren> knotwork: if you want it to work without someone going through the effort of making a minimal patch, yes.
1487 2013-09-22 22:49:27 <gmaxwell> No, but it's offtopic for here— and as a result confusing sipa, at least if you're talkign about minutia about merged mining and such.
1488 2013-09-22 22:49:51 <sipa> warren: just the last patch
1489 2013-09-22 22:50:06 <sipa> though it depends on the key refactor stuff, i guess
1490 2013-09-22 22:50:19 <sipa> yeah it does
1491 2013-09-22 22:50:30 <sipa> shouldn't be hard to backport, but that's not useful at all now
1492 2013-09-22 22:50:36 <sipa> as it was never in any released code
1493 2013-09-22 22:50:37 <warren> sipa: not worth the effort, this is the second person to come here with this
1494 2013-09-22 22:51:09 <warren> sipa: the first was tradefortress who offered 10BTC to help him fix this... not sure if he paid anyone
1495 2013-09-22 22:51:12 <gmaxwell> it wasn't even in git for long
1496 2013-09-22 22:51:38 <sipa> knotwork must have grabbed a branch at exactly the wrong time
1497 2013-09-22 22:51:58 <sipa> oh, but only for a short time as well i guess
1498 2013-09-22 22:52:01 <knotwork> yeah its not a catastrophe. I can maybe export privkeys from the bad wallet to get the ones that werent currupted
1499 2013-09-22 22:52:03 <sipa> as git head had the patch
1500 2013-09-22 22:52:15 <sipa> knotwork: nothing is corrupted
1501 2013-09-22 22:52:16 <knotwork> it only had seven liens that said corrupt address
1502 2013-09-22 22:52:20 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1503 2013-09-22 22:52:34 <sipa> it's just in a format that the old code can't deal with
1504 2013-09-22 22:52:36 <warren> sipa: by the fact that nobody else was complaining, that suggests nobody else has been testing secp256k1 ...
1505 2013-09-22 22:52:53 johnsoft has joined
1506 2013-09-22 22:53:00 <warren> sipa: it was in your personal repo for a month or two prior to master
1507 2013-09-22 22:53:16 <knotwork> whoa so it is because I have gone back to 0.8.5 that it thinks wallet is bad?
1508 2013-09-22 22:53:32 <knotwork> maybe I should use whichever point in 0.8.6 was last best 0.8.6 ?
1509 2013-09-22 22:53:33 <sipa> knotwork: yes
1510 2013-09-22 22:53:44 <sipa> knotwork: 0.8.6 doesn't exist and likely never will
1511 2013-09-22 22:53:49 * warren facepalm
1512 2013-09-22 22:53:51 <gmaxwell> knotwork: your wallet is bad, because you ran broken code that was unreleased in git for a brief time.
1513 2013-09-22 22:53:59 <knotwork> well last point in head where head was okay
1514 2013-09-22 22:54:14 <sipa> yes, git head has code to ignore that error
1515 2013-09-22 22:54:14 <warren> knotwork: just build this branch, it should theoretically read your wallet
1516 2013-09-22 22:54:17 <gmaxwell> Git master will ignore the badness.
1517 2013-09-22 22:54:28 Skav has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1518 2013-09-22 22:54:34 pecket has joined
1519 2013-09-22 22:54:35 <sipa> but that ignoring stuff was never backported to any release
1520 2013-09-22 22:54:37 MobPhone has joined
1521 2013-09-22 22:54:45 <sipa> just restore a backup of your wallet
1522 2013-09-22 22:55:12 <knotwork> ok well I saved the bad wallet, I will build this patch branch thing and bring the bad wallet to the build machine to see if it will fix or read it
1523 2013-09-22 22:55:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: I assume he's been running that crap wallet for a long time.
1524 2013-09-22 22:55:33 <sipa> right
1525 2013-09-22 22:55:40 <sipa> it won't fix it
1526 2013-09-22 22:55:48 <sipa> it will just ignore the problem
1527 2013-09-22 22:55:54 <sipa> 0.8.5 still won't read it
1528 2013-09-22 22:56:02 <gmaxwell> yep.
1529 2013-09-22 22:56:07 <knotwork> I dont keep backups of the third party server wallet, instead I transfer out all the coins every day
1530 2013-09-22 22:56:37 <knotwork> and move off that machen the whole wallet periodically too so as not to leave too many old keys etc laying around on third party box
1531 2013-09-22 22:56:54 <gmaxwell> if only git head had warnings on it telling you not to use it in production.
1532 2013-09-22 22:57:14 <knotwork> if this patch branch will read it, and actually finds any mBTC in it, presumably I can send them out from there
1533 2013-09-22 22:57:22 <knotwork> chances are its still empty though
1534 2013-09-22 22:58:19 <gmaxwell> knotwork: p2pool will keep paying addresses you mined with in the last day or so.
1535 2013-09-22 22:58:20 <knotwork> its not a big deal but I am interested in trying to read the damn wallet anyway
1536 2013-09-22 22:58:29 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1537 2013-09-22 22:58:45 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1538 2013-09-22 22:59:14 <knotwork> yeah but I had not put a new build on that box in some time, so likely the 7 lines about bad address in wallet were from some previous version
1539 2013-09-22 22:59:30 <knotwork> one I then replaced after it had only used 7 addresses maybe too
1540 2013-09-22 22:59:56 <knotwork> so if the 7 bad addresses arent new, I already sent the coins home from them anyway
1541 2013-09-22 23:01:02 <gmaxwell> if there was ever change in your sends your would have used more addresses, not good to bet on that.
1542 2013-09-22 23:01:07 <knotwork> I think p2pool remembers the payout address doesnt it? so it might have been sending to same one all along?
1543 2013-09-22 23:01:12 <gmaxwell> if there was ever change in your sends your would have used more addresses, not good to bet on that.
1544 2013-09-22 23:01:31 <gmaxwell> just put the wallet aside, and you can read it with git master when you get it build and do a dumpwallet.
1545 2013-09-22 23:01:31 <sipa> not for more than a day
1546 2013-09-22 23:01:46 <knotwork> I send everything, first try it tells me needed fee, and I redo it leaving room for the fee it said
1547 2013-09-22 23:01:56 <gmaxwell> sipa: nah, if you keep mining it keeps using the same address.
1548 2013-09-22 23:02:12 <gmaxwell> knotwork: yea, which means you may have had some change.
1549 2013-09-22 23:02:28 <knotwork> after sending, I do getinfo and see 0.00000000
1550 2013-09-22 23:03:10 <knotwork> oh change would not have cleared though that fast maybe
1551 2013-09-22 23:03:35 <knotwork> does wallet assume its change will reach it? or wait for it to actually do so?
1552 2013-09-22 23:03:39 <gmaxwell> if you're actually 0 then no, none left. But it's a bit surprising that it was every time.
1553 2013-09-22 23:04:00 <gmaxwell> as your procedure absolutely will fail to send all the coins sometimes.
1554 2013-09-22 23:04:13 <knotwork> I was surprised too that the fee seemed to be correct on the resend-leaving-room-for-fee
1555 2013-09-22 23:04:31 <gmaxwell> yea, it won't be if lowering the requested amount lowers the fee. happens if there is dust in the wallet.
1556 2013-09-22 23:04:59 <knotwork> annoyingly, thismorning I just sent the 1.## part home, figuring bothering to exactly zero it wasnt being too picky
1557 2013-09-22 23:05:16 <knotwork> first time I did that and boom it bit me - moral dont do that again I guess
1558 2013-09-22 23:05:33 <knotwork> was being too picky
1559 2013-09-22 23:05:36 pecket has joined
1560 2013-09-22 23:05:42 <gmaxwell> you've still got the fact that p2pool will be paying that wallet for 24 hours.
1561 2013-09-22 23:06:13 <knotwork> yeah but to same address as always, so if I can export that address I should be okay
1562 2013-09-22 23:06:26 <knotwork> as only p2pool and my sending home uses it
1563 2013-09-22 23:06:53 <knotwork> and whatever staff of third party hosting corp messes with it of course
1564 2013-09-22 23:07:05 <knotwork> no sign they have yet though
1565 2013-09-22 23:08:36 <warren> gmaxwell: all this p2pool dust and the many tx's sending it for no reason ...
1566 2013-09-22 23:08:47 <warren> gmaxwell: I'm going to work on more dust reduction
1567 2013-09-22 23:08:50 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1568 2013-09-22 23:09:12 <gmaxwell> warren: what are you talking about?
1569 2013-09-22 23:09:41 <gmaxwell> p2pool's smallest payout is 40 cents, thats not exactly dust.
1570 2013-09-22 23:09:56 johnsoft has joined
1571 2013-09-22 23:10:18 zacm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1572 2013-09-22 23:10:20 shesek has joined
1573 2013-09-22 23:10:28 zacm has joined
1574 2013-09-22 23:10:34 <warren> gmaxwell: pay out less often in bigger chunks, or more ambitious, track a minimum balance and prefer to payout after it accumulated, the dumbest approach to this is to skip a block or two, which works when p2pool is a larger proportion of global hashrate.
1575 2013-09-22 23:12:07 <gmaxwell> Yet again, you're giving attention to a non-problem.
1576 2013-09-22 23:12:31 <warren> gmaxwell: you were surprised when I pointed out 500-700 payouts per block earlier
1577 2013-09-22 23:13:49 <gmaxwell> No one wants higher variance, and the smallest payouts are 40 cents worth right now— where is the problem?
1578 2013-09-22 23:14:57 awaton has joined
1579 2013-09-22 23:15:17 <sipa> just accumulating until a certain threshold is reached, or a certain number of blocks after the last payout
1580 2013-09-22 23:15:26 <sipa> would work
1581 2013-09-22 23:15:36 awaton has quit (Client Quit)
1582 2013-09-22 23:15:42 <sipa> but it needs a buffer of non-mined coins to start with
1583 2013-09-22 23:15:42 <gmaxwell> uh...
1584 2013-09-22 23:16:03 <gmaxwell> and someone trusted to hold them...
1585 2013-09-22 23:16:05 Neskia has joined
1586 2013-09-22 23:16:10 <gmaxwell> and pay them out when due.
1587 2013-09-22 23:16:22 <sipa> ewww
1588 2013-09-22 23:16:23 <sipa> right
1589 2013-09-22 23:16:54 <warren> isn't that a solvable problem with a one time anonymous kickstart?
1590 2013-09-22 23:16:59 <gmaxwell> No.
1591 2013-09-22 23:17:07 <sipa> not anonymously
1592 2013-09-22 23:17:11 <gmaxwell> if you want to get paid less often, and don't mind the higher variance, just crank up your share diff.
1593 2013-09-22 23:17:17 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1594 2013-09-22 23:17:29 <sipa> accumulating isn't increasing variance
1595 2013-09-22 23:17:30 <gmaxwell> not even ignoring that. the party has to be trusted to actually make the payments regardless of the init.
1596 2013-09-22 23:17:35 <sipa> yeah
1597 2013-09-22 23:17:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: well it is, once you factor in the risk of the bank vanishing. :P
1598 2013-09-22 23:17:56 <sipa> oh, no
1599 2013-09-22 23:18:06 <sipa> you just delay payments, i'd figure
1600 2013-09-22 23:18:41 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1601 2013-09-22 23:18:41 <warren> I did say the dumbest approach to this is just to skip every other block if your dust is too small.
1602 2013-09-22 23:18:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: right, which means the bank owes you funds.
1603 2013-09-22 23:18:54 <sipa> i haven't thought enough about this
1604 2013-09-22 23:19:08 <warren> gmaxwell: the future blocks owe you funds
1605 2013-09-22 23:19:31 Nesetalis has joined
1606 2013-09-22 23:19:42 <warren> The skip block approach avoids any accumulator.
1607 2013-09-22 23:19:52 <gmaxwell> warren: THEN JUST INCREASE YOUR SHARE DIFF
1608 2013-09-22 23:19:55 <gmaxwell> Jesus fucking christ.
1609 2013-09-22 23:20:00 gmaxwell has left ()
1610 2013-09-22 23:20:08 <warren> sheesh
1611 2013-09-22 23:20:29 Neskia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1612 2013-09-22 23:20:29 <warren> That doesn't solve the systemic problem of defaults bloating the blockchain for no good reason.
1613 2013-09-22 23:23:57 patcon has joined
1614 2013-09-22 23:24:15 gmaxwell has joined
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1616 2013-09-22 23:25:00 <knotwork> so can I do a fresh git clone of https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys to get it as a standalone without messing with my existing repo copy
1617 2013-09-22 23:25:27 <warren> knotwork: add it as a remote, git fetch it, checkout and build
1618 2013-09-22 23:25:51 <warren> knotwork: mind you nobody tested this branch, but these patches exactly are shipped by litecoin, so it is probably ok
1619 2013-09-22 23:27:17 <knotwork> so git add remote https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys; git fetch; git checkout ?
1620 2013-09-22 23:27:37 <warren> knotwork: you need to give remotes aname
1621 2013-09-22 23:28:06 <knotwork> so git add remote warren https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin/commits/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys; git fetch warren; git checkout warren?
1622 2013-09-22 23:28:38 <warren> git checkout branchname
1623 2013-09-22 23:29:06 <sipa> git add remote warren git@github.com:wtogami/bitcoin; git fetch warren; git checkout warren/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys
1624 2013-09-22 23:29:07 Application has joined
1625 2013-09-22 23:30:03 rdymac has joined
1626 2013-09-22 23:36:40 <knotwork> literally branchname? or re-checkout the branch I already just built?
1627 2013-09-22 23:36:42 <knotwork> ]# git add remote warren git@github.com:wtogami/bitcoin
1628 2013-09-22 23:36:43 <knotwork> fatal: pathspec 'remote' did not match any files
1629 2013-09-22 23:37:03 gst has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1630 2013-09-22 23:37:03 <warren> knotwork: use the https version
1631 2013-09-22 23:37:14 <warren> oh wait
1632 2013-09-22 23:37:31 ericmuyser has joined
1633 2013-09-22 23:37:41 <warren> knotwork: git add remote warren https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin.git
1634 2013-09-22 23:38:32 <knotwork> git add remote warren https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin.git; git fetch warren; git checkout warren/btc-0.8.5-readcorruptkeys
1635 2013-09-22 23:38:33 <knotwork> fatal: pathspec 'remote' did not match any files
1636 2013-09-22 23:39:30 <knotwork> how about I clone https://github.com/wtogami/bitcoin.git then do the fetch and checkout?
1637 2013-09-22 23:40:33 <knotwork> would that work?
1638 2013-09-22 23:41:01 <warren> in a separate dir, yes
1639 2013-09-22 23:41:16 <warren> knotwork: git remote add
1640 2013-09-22 23:42:26 <knotwork> thanks now it is getting something. glad I am using a copy of my bitcoin-git though not my real one
1641 2013-09-22 23:42:53 <knotwork> oh oh it has a ./configure
1642 2013-09-22 23:44:32 <knotwork> I'll ignore than and just use my makefile as usual
1643 2013-09-22 23:45:57 prophet10x has joined
1644 2013-09-22 23:46:51 <sipa> ./autogen.sh
1645 2013-09-22 23:47:01 <sipa> ./configure
1646 2013-09-22 23:47:04 <sipa> make
1647 2013-09-22 23:47:16 <sipa> that should build everything
1648 2013-09-22 23:47:22 <gmaxwell> "my makefile" ?
1649 2013-09-22 23:47:58 <knotwork> there is no autogen. just configure. weird huh. Plus remember earlier I started by tryign to build a version that used autogen and it didnt like my boost chrono
1650 2013-09-22 23:48:18 oPen_syLar has joined
1651 2013-09-22 23:48:40 <knotwork> yeah my makefile, a copy of makefile.unix with some fedora 17 adjustments like the -mt for libs and the -I and -L for my custom openssl
1652 2013-09-22 23:49:24 McKay has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1653 2013-09-22 23:50:12 McKay has joined
1654 2013-09-22 23:51:41 <sipa> knotwork: oh, with wwarren's backport of the.fix to 0.8.5? sure, that does not use autotools
1655 2013-09-22 23:51:54 <sipa> only recent githead does
1656 2013-09-22 23:53:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: he's just confused because switching back to that other branch doesn't delete the configure script.
1657 2013-09-22 23:53:23 <knotwork> yeah I guess the configure is left over from when tried to make latest head
1658 2013-09-22 23:54:02 <knotwork> it didnt delete my makefile.fedora17 either so that worked out ok, it built now I am making copy of .bitcoin with no wallet to put bad wallet in
1659 2013-09-22 23:54:11 <knotwork> (I dont want to risk it damaging my blockchain)
1660 2013-09-22 23:54:34 <gmaxwell> wtf are you changing the makefile fore?
1661 2013-09-22 23:54:35 <gmaxwell> er for
1662 2013-09-22 23:54:55 <gmaxwell> knotwork: you set things like that using enviroment variables.
1663 2013-09-22 23:54:58 <knotwork> Fedora has no elliptic curves in openssl, and it has -mt suffix on boost libs
1664 2013-09-22 23:55:20 <gmaxwell> Sure BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX='-mt' make
1665 2013-09-22 23:55:29 <jgarzik> git clean -fdx
1666 2013-09-22 23:55:34 <knotwork> Well to use env vars I would make a script make.sh I guess so still need a custom file in order to do makes
1667 2013-09-22 23:55:53 <gmaxwell> careful with git clean fdx as it will delete stuff you've left in that directory. :)
1668 2013-09-22 23:55:55 <knotwork> else I forget the vars and switches etc to use
1669 2013-09-22 23:56:16 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, that's why it's so awesome
1670 2013-09-22 23:56:20 <knotwork> same thing with configure for apps that need --whatever on the configure, I make a configure.sh that remembers that stuff for me
1671 2013-09-22 23:56:24 <jgarzik> the programmer's friend, that and git RESET
1672 2013-09-22 23:56:26 <jgarzik> git rest
1673 2013-09-22 23:56:30 <jgarzik> fuck
1674 2013-09-22 23:56:35 <gmaxwell> knotwork: sure, just means that when the makefile changed yours would have been wrong, potentially doing bad things.
1675 2013-09-22 23:56:37 <jgarzik> and I'm not even drunk.
1676 2013-09-22 23:56:49 <gmaxwell> knotwork: in any case moot with autotools now.
1677 2013-09-22 23:56:53 * jgarzik -> needs beer, that's the problem
1678 2013-09-22 23:57:14 <knotwork> so I set somehing like CFLAG=-Lwhatever -Iwhatever to all my paths for openssl?
1679 2013-09-22 23:57:29 <knotwork> to add my paths
1680 2013-09-22 23:58:08 <knotwork> usually I jsut copy the makefile.unix and make those three hacks plus maybe set UPNP=- while I am at it
1681 2013-09-22 23:58:23 <gmaxwell> knotwork: OPENSSL_INCLUDE_PATH and OPENSSL_LIB_PATH  see the docs. :P
1682 2013-09-22 23:58:45 <Luke-Jr> woo stranded
1683 2013-09-22 23:59:02 <gmaxwell> hm?
1684 2013-09-22 23:59:08 <Luke-Jr> car won't start
1685 2013-09-22 23:59:10 <knotwork> hmm guess I will have to make a make.sh then to remember all that stuff for me
1686 2013-09-22 23:59:21 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: does it turn over?