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  10 2013-10-02 00:28:45 <coingenuity> jaychristopher: (floatval)$amount
  11 2013-10-02 00:28:47 <coingenuity> just fyi
  12 2013-10-02 00:29:02 <jaychristopher>  i just added 0
  13 2013-10-02 00:29:11 <jaychristopher> $amount = $amount + 0;
  14 2013-10-02 00:29:17 <jaychristopher> any advantage to doing floatval?/
  15 2013-10-02 00:29:28 <coingenuity> change the data type to float, it's more reliable
  16 2013-10-02 00:29:42 <coingenuity> you could send the wrong amount of BTC if your code is buggy with the maths
  17 2013-10-02 00:29:43 <jaychristopher> okay cool, will do thanks
  18 2013-10-02 00:29:46 <coingenuity> np
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  23 2013-10-02 00:37:40 <flibbr-dev> anyone know anything or got any updates on progress of : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2861
  24 2013-10-02 00:38:07 <jgarzik> flibbr-dev, functionally it is pretty much complete
  25 2013-10-02 00:38:28 <jgarzik> flibbr-dev, but watch-only address support is blocked on a cultural argument of "watch only wallets make more sense"
  26 2013-10-02 00:38:57 <jgarzik> because mixing watch-only and normal addresses results in all addresses appearing in 'getinfo' balance, and other wallet reporting functions.
  27 2013-10-02 00:39:06 <jgarzik> That may or may not be what is expected.
  28 2013-10-02 00:39:10 <sipa> there have been complaints that it is overly complex, because few need a wallet with mixed nornal and watchonly addresses
  29 2013-10-02 00:39:30 <sipa> and i think that makes sense
  30 2013-10-02 00:39:54 <sipa> the problem is that the alternative is much mote useful in combination with multiwallet
  31 2013-10-02 00:40:04 <sipa> which doesn't seem to be going anywhere
  32 2013-10-02 00:40:23 <Luke-Jr> I'd think there'd also be a problem of an ever growing "balance" on the mixed wallet :p
  33 2013-10-02 00:40:32 <Luke-Jr> since addresses are only used for receiving
  34 2013-10-02 00:41:00 <jgarzik> yes
  35 2013-10-02 00:41:05 apurplehorse has joined
  36 2013-10-02 00:41:05 <jgarzik> …but that may be useful
  37 2013-10-02 00:41:13 <jgarzik> you can monitor cold + hot storage
  38 2013-10-02 00:41:38 <sipa> it becomes even more useful in combination with bip32 where change addresses are automatically added and dervied
  39 2013-10-02 00:41:45 one_zero has joined
  40 2013-10-02 00:41:59 <sipa> though that is technically mostly orthogonal
  41 2013-10-02 00:42:12 <gmaxwell> it occured to me that the current output locking we have is also a lot like watching wallets.
  42 2013-10-02 00:42:26 <jgarzik> wallet needs to make that persistent
  43 2013-10-02 00:42:33 <jgarzik> as a next step for locked outputs
  44 2013-10-02 00:42:37 <gmaxwell> agreed.
  45 2013-10-02 00:42:47 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that would show transactions spending coins created by those watch-only addresses
  46 2013-10-02 00:42:59 <gmaxwell> But perhaps we should have a "locked" balance, and in that case then any watching keys are just always locked and not unlockable?
  47 2013-10-02 00:43:19 <jgarzik> that is an interesting point, though.  Had not thought of locked outputs as watch-only, but functionally that is the case.
  48 2013-10-02 00:43:30 <jgarzik> and it does create a multi-balance situation.
  49 2013-10-02 00:43:34 <jgarzik> (which I did know)
  50 2013-10-02 00:43:58 <sipa> why do interesting discussions always happen here when i'm supposed to be asleep? :(
  51 2013-10-02 00:44:06 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, I think that is a useful model, yes
  52 2013-10-02 00:44:12 <jgarzik> works nicely for both features
  53 2013-10-02 00:44:27 <gmaxwell> I also suspect that 'lockunspent' really needs a saved reason. A couple times now I've been unable to figure out _why_ I had an output locked.
  54 2013-10-02 00:44:49 <midnightmagic> sipa: because I have to go home and make tunafish sandwiches. :(
  55 2013-10-02 00:44:54 <Luke-Jr> lol
  56 2013-10-02 00:45:21 <sipa> ewww tunafish
  57 2013-10-02 00:45:29 <sipa> sounds fishy
  58 2013-10-02 00:45:33 <midnightmagic> yum yum. certified dolphin-free
  59 2013-10-02 00:45:33 <gmaxwell> (I'd also been thinking about some settings that automatically locked some inputs— e.g. people paying dust to your old change addresses... which was why I noticed the watching symmetry)
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  61 2013-10-02 00:46:11 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, should be straightforward to add a comment, when storing the output locks in wallet
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  67 2013-10-02 00:47:09 <gmaxwell> (and, if you're auto-locking outputs like that, you'd really want a balance of locked outputs displayed... (so you don't go ditching a good wallet with funds in it because they're all locked)... and thus the symmetry)
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  70 2013-10-02 00:47:46 <sipa> interesting
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  72 2013-10-02 00:48:26 <sipa> i'll see if i can retrofit the watchonly coins into islocked
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  78 2013-10-02 00:49:41 <jgarzik> Appears straightforward to update the array-of-objects that RPC 'lockunspent' receives, to add a 'comment' field to each object.
  79 2013-10-02 00:50:16 <jgarzik> I guess we want a spendable-balance and unspendable-balance
  80 2013-10-02 00:50:39 <jgarzik> (where 'balance' == spendable balance, for backwards compat)
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  82 2013-10-02 00:51:09 <Luke-Jr> with an encrypted wallet, should 100% be unspendable? ;)
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  85 2013-10-02 00:54:01 <sipa> Luke-Jr: what would that mean in practice?
  86 2013-10-02 00:54:23 <sipa> just that it's listed under unspendable-balance?
  87 2013-10-02 00:54:36 <sipa> if that's the only effect, i'd say
  88 2013-10-02 00:54:39 <sipa> no
  89 2013-10-02 00:55:17 <sipa> though it may make sense to convert an encrypted wallet into a watch-only wallet
  90 2013-10-02 00:56:34 ivan`_ is now known as ivan`
  91 2013-10-02 00:57:43 <sipa> maybe just add a boolean to getbalance, to select whether wat honly/locked coins should be included
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  93 2013-10-02 00:58:21 * sipa zZzZ
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  95 2013-10-02 00:58:52 <jgarzik> sipa, yah, that would be fine for 'getbalance'
  96 2013-10-02 00:59:09 <jgarzik> though I think the kitchen sink (aka getinfo) should go ahead and display all balances
  97 2013-10-02 00:59:26 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, no
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 113 2013-10-02 01:26:05 <owowo> http://isthegovernmentopen.com/images/obama.gif
 114 2013-10-02 01:26:18 <owowo> oops, wrong channel
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 217 2013-10-02 03:48:42 <flibbr-dev> sipa, jgarzik, sorry for the slow replys, thanks for the intel & appreciate this discussion re the watch only addresses. I'm doing some dev work and right now, the only way for me to listunspent for a address [my site creates 'web wallets'] is to query blockchain.info/unspent?address=. .  but this feature would obviously allow local watching which would be massively help (not having to
 218 2013-10-02 03:48:42 <flibbr-dev> rely on 3rd party provider). .
 219 2013-10-02 03:51:27 <flibbr-dev> I agree 'balance' should in theory show 'spendable balance' and can also understand possible side with the 'watch only wallets' though if this creates unessesary bloat / complication I do not know.
 220 2013-10-02 03:52:56 Eleuthria has joined
 221 2013-10-02 03:56:43 <flibbr-dev> If I had funding or c++ skills I'd contribute towards getting this watch only addresses finalized off. I think for merchant support, security is a top priority, and that to me means creating 'web wallets', ie, storing the privatekey encrypted in the database. . which means their wallet for my site is not actually in my wallet. .  so this type of feature would be very helpful.
 222 2013-10-02 03:58:35 <CodeShark> I got a little bit of the latter - and am working towards a good solution to this problem...
 223 2013-10-02 03:59:12 <CodeShark> if I could only get passed this tedious hurdle of setting up a good build environment :p
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 225 2013-10-02 04:06:25 <flibbr-dev> CodeShark, sounds good to me :)
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 227 2013-10-02 04:08:46 <CodeShark> is there a simple way to get g++ to stop filling my screen with errors immediately upon encountering the first fatal error so I can easily experiment with different commands without having to scroll through thousands of lines?
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 231 2013-10-02 04:10:49 <CodeShark> there's -Wfatal-errors, but an error can be thousands of lines long :(
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 393 2013-10-02 09:54:24 <jgarzik> pushing another !pwalletMain change
 394 2013-10-02 09:54:31 <jgarzik> cherry-picked from my no-wallet PR
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 413 2013-10-02 10:42:38 <hydromet> Does anyone know if Dark Wallet makes use of the Stratum protocol?
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 430 2013-10-02 11:23:19 <jgarzik> mornin'
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 439 2013-10-02 11:49:17 <melvster> jgarzik: morning ... saw your post on auth using digital sigs
 440 2013-10-02 11:49:32 <melvster> i think that's the way to go, but browsers can already do this using SSL
 441 2013-10-02 11:50:17 <melvster> the server sends a random number (challenge), and your private key signs it (using credentials in the browser ie a client side cert) and then you are authenticated
 442 2013-10-02 11:50:47 <melvster> ive been using this to login to every website I build passwordlessly (is that a thing?) for about 5 ears
 443 2013-10-02 11:50:49 <melvster> years
 444 2013-10-02 11:51:16 poggy has joined
 445 2013-10-02 11:51:18 <melvster> most browsers and web servers support this already
 446 2013-10-02 11:51:28 <K1773R> melvster: ACK, thats the way to go :) tough only few websites/services support this (most due with GPG)
 447 2013-10-02 11:51:44 <melvster> it's not GPG, it's X.509
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 449 2013-10-02 11:52:04 <hydromet> jgarzik: good morning
 450 2013-10-02 11:52:06 <melvster> strangely GPG and X.509 have different formats for their private keys + certificates (means key value pairs)
 451 2013-10-02 11:52:11 * jgarzik is just happy to poke people into thinking about anything other than passwords
 452 2013-10-02 11:52:18 <jgarzik> New exchanges are popping up
 453 2013-10-02 11:52:20 <jgarzik> securing millions
 454 2013-10-02 11:52:23 <melvster> +1
 455 2013-10-02 11:52:25 <jgarzik> and store passwords
 456 2013-10-02 11:52:34 <K1773R> melvster: yea, i know. just wanted to support it by relating to the webservices which use GPG for auth
 457 2013-10-02 11:52:36 <hydromet> indeed
 458 2013-10-02 11:52:53 <hydromet> jgarzik: what do you make of Dark Wallet and if they might be using Stratum?
 459 2013-10-02 11:53:02 <xeroc> login into inputs.io via gpg decrypt is a great 2fac
 460 2013-10-02 11:53:15 <jgarzik> <shrug> Dark Wallet is uninteresting ploy for media attention
 461 2013-10-02 11:53:19 <melvster> jgarzik: we just persuaded MIT to become an identity provider which will put certs in your browser so that you dont need passwords -- maybe people, however, like mozilla, argue that storing private keys on the client is too hard for users
 462 2013-10-02 11:53:59 <melvster> i dont agree with that, but it's the dominant industry view
 463 2013-10-02 11:55:21 <melvster> most things support RSA and DER ... ECDSA has less support but hopefully getting better!
 464 2013-10-02 11:55:47 <melvster> some ECDSA curves are part of NSS but not the BTC one iirc, due to NIST recs
 465 2013-10-02 11:55:57 <melvster> NIST recommends another curve
 466 2013-10-02 11:55:59 Polyatomic has quit (Quit: Catcha Round)
 467 2013-10-02 11:56:07 <jgarzik> that's a feature ;p
 468 2013-10-02 11:56:24 <melvster> yeah!  satoshi knew his stuff! :P
 469 2013-10-02 11:56:38 <tgs3> satoshi <3
 470 2013-10-02 11:56:48 <sipa> melvster: SEC standardized several curves, some of which were later (simultaneously?) standardized by NIST
 471 2013-10-02 11:56:49 <melvster> even tho he says he picked it at random ... I *highly* doubt that! :D
 472 2013-10-02 11:56:53 <nsh> satoshi keeps me safe on the road
 473 2013-10-02 11:56:56 <nsh> and wards off vampires
 474 2013-10-02 11:57:01 <melvster> lol
 475 2013-10-02 11:57:14 <sipa> and it seems the one chosen by satoshi was purely SEC, without NIST "influence"
 476 2013-10-02 11:57:22 <nsh> what keydepth was satoshi's public key?
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 478 2013-10-02 11:57:25 <nsh> RSA1024?
 479 2013-10-02 11:57:30 <nsh> 2048?
 480 2013-10-02 11:57:45 <melvster> sipa: there's an old forum post where he explains why he picked that curve ... but I'm sure that's not the whole story
 481 2013-10-02 11:58:04 <sipa> melvster: i think it is
 482 2013-10-02 11:58:28 <sipa> i don't consider satoshi a crypto expert
 483 2013-10-02 11:58:40 <sipa> he just accidentally chose a nice curve
 484 2013-10-02 11:58:46 <melvster> sipa: well sure ... but one thing about satoshi is that he researched stuff thoroughly
 485 2013-10-02 11:59:51 <melvster> sipa: you could well be right ... but satoshi and accidentally are terms that dont often go together :)
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 487 2013-10-02 12:00:29 <jgarzik> I think Satoshi picked a lot of bits off the shelf
 488 2013-10-02 12:00:34 <jgarzik> (which was good)
 489 2013-10-02 12:00:40 <sipa> yeah
 490 2013-10-02 12:00:48 <melvster> 'bits' off the shelf :D
 491 2013-10-02 12:00:53 <sipa> 256 of 'em!
 492 2013-10-02 12:01:30 <sipa> melvster: note that in 2009, EC curves were less common, and it may just have been less clear that P-256 would end up being the "usual" 256 bit curve at time
 493 2013-10-02 12:01:42 <melvster> true
 494 2013-10-02 12:02:20 <hydromet> How much bitcoin would anyone like to bet me that Satoshi learned quite a bit from from David Chaum's failed attempts in the 1990s at e-cash?
 495 2013-10-02 12:02:21 <hydromet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum
 496 2013-10-02 12:02:34 <jgarzik> no bet, he said as much
 497 2013-10-02 12:02:34 <hydromet> Chaum's problem in part was holding lots of patents
 498 2013-10-02 12:02:45 rdponticelli has joined
 499 2013-10-02 12:02:45 <jgarzik> Chaum's problem was… centralization
 500 2013-10-02 12:02:56 <hydromet> centralization and patents
 501 2013-10-02 12:02:59 <jgarzik> Chaum and OpenCoin followed amusingly similar paths
 502 2013-10-02 12:03:06 <jgarzik> One company trying to bootstrap thing
 503 2013-10-02 12:03:53 <hydromet> jgarzik: I do worry a bit that someone with deep VC pockets such as in Silicon Valley will try to figure out how to co-opt Bitcoin (despite its decentralized nature)
 504 2013-10-02 12:04:26 <hydromet> just look at what the monster companies did with the 'net and the web (Facebook, Google et al
 505 2013-10-02 12:04:56 <jgarzik> "figure out"?   doubtful
 506 2013-10-02 12:05:10 <melvster> hydromet: lol google already employ some bitcoin folks ;)
 507 2013-10-02 12:05:18 <jgarzik> People with money and power can always co-opt bitcoin quite openly, no secrets to figure out
 508 2013-10-02 12:05:23 <hydromet> yeah, I know that seems illogical of me to say
 509 2013-10-02 12:05:59 <melvster> hydromet: yes satoshi has been active at least since 1998 ... he certainly knew about Chaum's work
 510 2013-10-02 12:06:03 <hydromet> melvster: yes, I know (e.g., Mike)
 511 2013-10-02 12:06:44 <melvster> to be fair i think google have been super supportive of bitcion to date ...
 512 2013-10-02 12:06:59 <hydromet> how so?
 513 2013-10-02 12:07:18 <melvster> paying devs, adding bitcion: URI scheme to chrome
 514 2013-10-02 12:07:24 <hydromet> and in theory, why would Bitcoin need Google's support?
 515 2013-10-02 12:07:41 <melvster> hydromet: it's free software, anyone is invited to help :)
 516 2013-10-02 12:07:48 <hydromet> exactly
 517 2013-10-02 12:08:02 <melvster> i dont think bitcion will be co opted, not easily ... it's on a great trajectory
 518 2013-10-02 12:08:19 <hydromet> I'm a little bit cautious though on why anyone would be compelled to say "to be fair" to Google
 519 2013-10-02 12:08:51 <hydromet> "don't be evil"
 520 2013-10-02 12:08:56 <hydromet> Google motto
 521 2013-10-02 12:08:56 <_dr> because they're screwing you over when they can to make money off you?
 522 2013-10-02 12:09:04 <_dr> like any company does
 523 2013-10-02 12:09:45 <_dr> "don't be stupid" :-)
 524 2013-10-02 12:09:57 <hydromet> _dr: indeed
 525 2013-10-02 12:10:04 bonks has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 526 2013-10-02 12:11:09 <hydromet> or "don't be naive"  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/technology/google-accused-of-wiretapping-in-gmail-scans.html
 527 2013-10-02 12:11:20 <melvster> hydromet: i think people are slightly more cautious of all the big companies, post snowden
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 530 2013-10-02 12:13:24 <hydromet> melvster: indeed and its refreshing they are so thanks to da kine Snowden
 531 2013-10-02 12:13:27 <jgarzik> Anyone who uses GMail, yet thinks their email private, is a loon.  This has been known since before Google even existed as a company (as others were doing webmail and adding anti-privacy clauses to ToS, to enable searching and such)
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 534 2013-10-02 12:15:44 <_dr> calls for a cypherpunk renaissance. i was positively surprised to read about an email provider on /. that plans to offer two-/threefish and skein in addition to the nist-/nsa-weakened standards
 535 2013-10-02 12:16:02 <hydromet> Bitcoin is making some news as of yesterday via Reuters http://mobilebeta.reuters.com/bitcoin-buzz-grows-among-venture-investors-1
 536 2013-10-02 12:16:21 <hydromet> such as with the Bitcoin Investment Trust (a ETF of sorts?)
 537 2013-10-02 12:16:37 <jgarzik> Yes, BIT is like a bitcoin ETF.
 538 2013-10-02 12:16:40 <melvster> hydromet: back to he topic, I'm pretty sure satoshi was very familiar with the work of chaum, adam back of course, maybe not so much nick szabo ... then there's old stuff like lucre etc.
 539 2013-10-02 12:16:57 * jgarzik has been in contact with various folks trying to create a bitcoin ETF for 2+ years
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 541 2013-10-02 12:17:31 <melvster> jgarzik: talk to max keiser ... he wants to do something similar I believe
 542 2013-10-02 12:17:39 <warren> those bitcoin ETF's are hurting the very thing that they are holding by taking units out of useful circulation
 543 2013-10-02 12:17:47 <jgarzik> Max and RT are… a bit much for my tastes.
 544 2013-10-02 12:17:55 <sipa> well bitcoin is pretty much the exact opposite of chaumian e-money... it's decentralized but pseudonymous; e-money is centralized but anonymous
 545 2013-10-02 12:18:30 <jgarzik> warren, eh not really
 546 2013-10-02 12:18:31 <melvster> warren: but they multiply up the non base money supply
 547 2013-10-02 12:18:40 <melvster> good old fractional reserve :)
 548 2013-10-02 12:18:42 <hydromet> melvster: regarding Chaum, didn't the feds (gov) also sniff out the threat of e-cash and thus put out the fire before it got going (besides the centralization and patents issues)?
 549 2013-10-02 12:19:03 <warren> I'd argue this point, but really need to sleep.
 550 2013-10-02 12:19:19 CheckDavid has joined
 551 2013-10-02 12:19:23 <tgs3> but wait the feds are good, no?
 552 2013-10-02 12:19:41 <melvster> hydromet: something like that, but here wasnt a huge amount of development work going on, like there is today, there was true ledger and a few other bits and pieces ...
 553 2013-10-02 12:19:48 <jgarzik> ETFs hold only as much as investors themselves want to hold.  It functions as sort of a bitcoin wallet for people with USD and Charles Schwab account.
 554 2013-10-02 12:19:50 <hydromet> jgarzik: any thoughts on the the BIT ETF just announced?
 555 2013-10-02 12:20:02 <melvster> it took satoshi to really create a paradigm shift
 556 2013-10-02 12:20:03 <jgarzik> hydromet, long predicted.  great for bitcoin.
 557 2013-10-02 12:20:21 <jgarzik> hydromet, Giving anybody with a brokerage account access to bitcoin is nice.
 558 2013-10-02 12:20:47 <melvster> hmm ... but how do they determine the expiry price?  average of exchanges?
 559 2013-10-02 12:21:03 <hydromet> melvster: I think you're probably right about this (and just look at the feds in the U.S, the politicians can't keep the gov running 100% not to mention the perpetual debt ceiling problems)
 560 2013-10-02 12:21:06 <xeroc> short question: isnt this the -dev channel .. this discussion perfectly fits to #bitcoin .. not the devel-chan. .. am i wrong?
 561 2013-10-02 12:21:39 <warren> in practice things become on-topic in -dev because devs are talking about it. =P
 562 2013-10-02 12:21:42 <melvster> xeroc: yes you're right :)
 563 2013-10-02 12:21:44 <jgarzik> xeroc is correct :)
 564 2013-10-02 12:22:06 <warren> apparently HPMOR was on topic a few weeks ago.  (I still refuse to read it.)
 565 2013-10-02 12:22:14 <xeroc> just mean .. if some are interssted in this talk .. and are not developers .. they will not be in -dev
 566 2013-10-02 12:22:21 <sipa> warren: why?
 567 2013-10-02 12:22:27 <hydromet> xeroc: good point
 568 2013-10-02 12:22:35 <warren> sipa: oh no, you're another one? =)
 569 2013-10-02 12:22:46 <sipa> warren: disclaimer: i never read HP itself
 570 2013-10-02 12:23:05 <warren> me neither, and I'm aware that makes HPMOR better or something.
 571 2013-10-02 12:23:20 <melvster> xeroc: thanks for the reminder, good point, in truth there's always a slight overlap between different IRC channels, hence "chat", but good to stay on topic ...
 572 2013-10-02 12:23:40 <sipa> xeroc: it's sort-of inevitable that channels sometimes go offtopic, and imho, that's ok
 573 2013-10-02 12:24:05 <sipa> xeroc: when people are talking about serious things, offtopic becomes offtopic automatically really :)
 574 2013-10-02 12:24:18 <xeroc> sipa .. shure .. i just meant that at some point you may consider moving the discussion to #bitcoin...
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 576 2013-10-02 12:25:17 <sipa> i don't think it works like that... topics arise among people in a channel because they contribute to it; far from everyone will want to join another channel just to continue a discussion
 577 2013-10-02 12:25:32 <sipa> i'm not saying you're wrong of course; sometimes things do get really offtopic here
 578 2013-10-02 12:25:33 <xeroc> good point
 579 2013-10-02 12:25:45 <xeroc> ^.^
 580 2013-10-02 12:26:04 <Graet> nothing stopping ppl lurking in here and reading
 581 2013-10-02 12:26:10 * Graet goes back to lurking
 582 2013-10-02 12:26:38 <hydromet> xeroc: we could talk sports such as cricket or baseball and that would be quite OT :)
 583 2013-10-02 12:27:01 <t7> is there a cricket irc channel?
 584 2013-10-02 12:27:13 <sipa> only an ircket one
 585 2013-10-02 12:27:14 <hydromet> t7: good question
 586 2013-10-02 12:27:21 * xeroc did not want to interrupt anybody from discussing anything ....
 587 2013-10-02 12:27:45 <sipa> xeroc: no worries :p
 588 2013-10-02 12:27:49 <xeroc> i was just wondering about the talk ..
 589 2013-10-02 12:27:52 <xeroc> ^.^
 590 2013-10-02 12:27:55 <sipa> you just spawned a meta-discussion
 591 2013-10-02 12:27:57 <Vl4dim1r> lurk
 592 2013-10-02 12:29:04 <hydromet> xeroc: my apologies, I kind of spurred some of the OT about the Reuters article and ETFs ... even though this is the dev channel, its healthy to have some related topics such as what the world is reporting on about Bitcion
 593 2013-10-02 12:29:15 <hydromet> it might have an influence on the developers?
 594 2013-10-02 12:29:23 <hydromet> in terms of what to develop?
 595 2013-10-02 12:29:44 <xeroc> no need for apologies ..
 596 2013-10-02 12:30:08 <t7> take it to #bitcoin-meta guys
 597 2013-10-02 12:30:38 <xeroc> hydromet: you are taking me too seriously .. i REALLY was just wondering about the non-technical talk here ..
 598 2013-10-02 12:30:40 <hydromet> t7: there really is a #bitcoin-meta channel? I thought you were kind of joking before
 599 2013-10-02 12:30:45 <sipa> can you please take your comments about moving to #bitcoin-meta to #bitcoin-meta-meta?
 600 2013-10-02 12:30:51 <Graet> lol, lonely place that t7
 601 2013-10-02 12:30:55 <xeroc> sipa lol
 602 2013-10-02 12:31:04 <Graet> lol
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 604 2013-10-02 12:31:37 <t7> on meta.stackoverflow you can talk about meta.stackoverflow  ... so maybe the meta channel is like that and we don't need infinity -metas
 605 2013-10-02 12:32:02 <xeroc> reminds me of "to understand recursion ...."
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 607 2013-10-02 12:33:23 <jgarzik> please move discussions of #bitcoin-meta to #bitcoin-meta-meta
 608 2013-10-02 12:33:37 <jgarzik> damn , sipa beat me to it
 609 2013-10-02 12:33:47 * jgarzik needs more pseudo-coffee
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 613 2013-10-02 12:34:42 <K1773R> jgarzik: grep coffee /dev/urandom
 614 2013-10-02 12:34:59 <melvster> while bitcoin has a *base* money supply of 21 million ... every time a balance is recorded in bitcoin, the *total* money supply goes up, so an ETF even if it does not take money out of the block chain can settle using it's cash reserves, and more bitcions can trade ... I think it's a good thing personally ... off block stuff is going to happen more and more, and that will help performance
 615 2013-10-02 12:35:03 <K1773R> since u dont want a true coffee :P
 616 2013-10-02 12:35:41 <sipa> melvster: ??
 617 2013-10-02 12:36:10 <jgarzik> K1773R, American soda
 618 2013-10-02 12:36:12 <xeroc> its about liquidity (is this the right term for that)
 619 2013-10-02 12:36:29 <melvster> sipa: every time an IOU is written in bitcoin by a trusted party, there's a bigger overall supply out there, just like in the gold market many ETFs trade gold without owning 100% of the physical
 620 2013-10-02 12:36:42 <melvster> it's leverage
 621 2013-10-02 12:36:45 <sipa> melvster: oh, ok, sure
 622 2013-10-02 12:36:54 <sipa> money as debt :)
 623 2013-10-02 12:37:01 <melvster> exactly!
 624 2013-10-02 12:37:34 <_dr> so we'll have real bitcoins and worthless bitcoins, great!
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 626 2013-10-02 12:37:46 <lmatteis> how is a Block generated?
 627 2013-10-02 12:37:53 <jgarzik> ETFs aren't IOUs, at least in regulated markets.  A bitcoin ETF /must/ be able to buy and sell the underlying commodity.   Of course, the commodity may be bought or sold with a fractional reserve fiat currency, margin loans, or other instruments of debt and destruction.
 628 2013-10-02 12:37:55 <lmatteis> like a block is a bunch of unverified transactions say
 629 2013-10-02 12:38:08 <melvster> _dr: if you want real bitcions use the block chain and pay the transaction fee, and wait for the confirms ... that will always be available
 630 2013-10-02 12:38:22 <jgarzik> (now this isn't strictly true on an hourly basis, but it must be true over a longer timescale)
 631 2013-10-02 12:39:17 <_dr> can't wait for people to 'buy' worthless bitcoins, that can be printed just like $, to find out they're worth nada. way to boost confidence!
 632 2013-10-02 12:40:32 <melvster> _dr: just wait for 3 confirms and you'll be fine
 633 2013-10-02 12:40:39 <melvster> or dont deal with scammers
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 637 2013-10-02 12:41:23 <_dr> i was taking about fractional reserve bitcoin banking with ETFs or whatever it is called
 638 2013-10-02 12:41:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|lmatteis: Miners remember transactions that they see
 639 2013-10-02 12:41:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They assemble transactions into a block, and then double-SHA256 the block
 640 2013-10-02 12:42:00 <melvster> _dr: they will just settle at the market price if they run out ... that's more or less what the CFTC said about gold ETFs
 641 2013-10-02 12:42:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If the hash is low enough to be a valid block, they broadcast it
 642 2013-10-02 12:42:26 <hydromet> the financial engineering of bitcoin
 643 2013-10-02 12:42:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If it's not, they change it very slightly and try again
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 648 2013-10-02 12:44:20 <melvster> jgarzik: I can give you a demo next week of how I do passwordless login using PKI, if you're interested?
 649 2013-10-02 12:44:50 <jgarzik> melvster, I know SSL can do it easily
 650 2013-10-02 12:44:56 <melvster> we may be able to apply the same to ECDSA, I know someone has written an extension to do it ...
 651 2013-10-02 12:44:58 <melvster> for chrome
 652 2013-10-02 12:45:00 <jgarzik> so few users have client certs though
 653 2013-10-02 12:45:07 <melvster> yes very true
 654 2013-10-02 12:46:02 <jgarzik> Another part of the authentication picture is simply usability.  It's not a tech problem, per se.  Must find a model that does not require any secrets on the website/server side.
 655 2013-10-02 12:46:15 <melvster> jgarzik: did you see http://joecascio.net/joecblog/2013/03/25/collateralized-identity-using-bitcoin-to-suppress-sockpuppets/
 656 2013-10-02 12:46:20 <jgarzik> the cert UIs and infrastructure are quite immature today
 657 2013-10-02 12:46:31 <melvster> yes they are
 658 2013-10-02 12:47:24 <melvster> "I've built a very small proof-of-concept that demonstrates registration and login to an example web site with a Chrome Extension and local http service that communicates with the Bitcoin-Qt reference wallet application using the standard bitcoin-json API. " -- Joe Casclo
 659 2013-10-02 12:48:59 <melvster> jgarzik: we have a thread on identity + auth going at the w3c payments group ... if you're interested I can send you a link, or you can join the conversation ... there's quite a few btc folks on there now
 660 2013-10-02 12:49:38 <jgarzik> melvster, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1
 661 2013-10-02 12:49:54 <melvster> nice!
 662 2013-10-02 12:50:03 <jgarzik> melvster, SIN is a bitcoin-address-like object, to which you attach digitally signed hashes (private) or keypairs (public)
 663 2013-10-02 12:50:33 <jgarzik> melvster, SIN uses same ECDSA curve and other details as bitcoin
 664 2013-10-02 12:50:39 <melvster> jgarzik: that's the way to go imho
 665 2013-10-02 12:50:44 <jgarzik> you can even trivially convert a bitcoin address into a SIN, and vice versa
 666 2013-10-02 12:50:53 <jgarzik> with the same key
 667 2013-10-02 12:51:25 <melvster> jgarzik: why not just use the bitcoin: URI scheme or something like it?
 668 2013-10-02 12:51:52 <jgarzik> melvster, I think it is important to separate SIN and bitcoin address conceptually
 669 2013-10-02 12:52:10 <melvster> jgarzik: sure, that's true
 670 2013-10-02 12:52:30 <melvster> ive been thinking about this too
 671 2013-10-02 12:52:46 <melvster> there's a more general concept of 'digest URIs' di:
 672 2013-10-02 12:52:47 <jgarzik> melvster,  it is mechanical to convert, if that becomes necessary.  But engineering efficiencies and safety (human psychology) benefit from separation, IMO
 673 2013-10-02 12:52:51 <melvster> which I've been thinking about using
 674 2013-10-02 12:52:58 <jgarzik> melvster, yeah that works
 675 2013-10-02 12:53:18 <melvster> jgarzik: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-digesturi-02
 676 2013-10-02 12:53:40 <melvster> you can even do things like:  http://di.example.com/.well-known/di/sha-256/
 677 2013-10-02 12:53:40 <melvster>    B_K97zTtFuOhug27fke4_Zgc4Myz4b_lZNgsQjy6fkc
 678 2013-10-02 12:53:45 <melvster> so they get spidered
 679 2013-10-02 12:54:49 <melvster> just mail the IETF guys if you have a use case that isnt covered
 680 2013-10-02 12:55:00 <melvster> they are normally pretty helpful and happy to update stuff
 681 2013-10-02 12:55:39 * melvster back to study! ... chat soon! :)
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 780 2013-10-02 15:57:26 <jgarzik> http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf  </off-topic>
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 782 2013-10-02 15:59:33 <BlueMatt> nice! fbi finally shut it down
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 786 2013-10-02 16:02:07 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it's a pretty wild document.
 787 2013-10-02 16:02:39 <melvster> probably a good thing for btc in general
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 789 2013-10-02 16:04:10 * BlueMatt finds it interesting only one person was charged, but maybe more come later
 790 2013-10-02 16:05:11 <gmaxwell> The day of the arrest someone claiming to be DPR emailed me, I assume some screwed up attempt to entrap me. Ineffective, since I have no interest in any of that stuff though.
 791 2013-10-02 16:05:46 <BlueMatt> lol, that was a pretty bad attempt...
 792 2013-10-02 16:10:49 <Luke-Jr> nobody was silly enough to think I might be involved, apparently :p
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 794 2013-10-02 16:13:34 <iwilcox> gmaxwell: Perhaps your phone will stop being on permanent transmit now? :)
 795 2013-10-02 16:13:40 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: well the message was kinda boring. I'm not quite sure what they were trying for.
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 797 2013-10-02 16:14:34 <Luke-Jr> heh
 798 2013-10-02 16:14:51 <Luke-Jr> I hope it won't be problematic that this description of Bitcoin claims it is anonymous..
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 802 2013-10-02 16:18:50 <MC1984> DPR?
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 807 2013-10-02 16:21:56 <BlueMatt> MC1984: guy who runs the thing
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 809 2013-10-02 16:22:53 <MC1984> oh the dead pirate guy
 810 2013-10-02 16:23:55 <MC1984> why would anyone be emailing bitcoin devs trying to entrap, dont they understand the distinction?
 811 2013-10-02 16:23:56 <MC1984> gosh
 812 2013-10-02 16:24:01 <tgs3> sup MC1984 my terrorist you
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 816 2013-10-02 16:25:06 <tgs3> gmaxwell: what arrest, who tried to entrap you - is this story posted anywhere? seems interesting
 817 2013-10-02 16:26:03 <tgs3> I'm not up to date on this story... what did the best democracy ever did now?
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 820 2013-10-02 16:28:47 <Luke-Jr> tgs3: it's actually good news
 821 2013-10-02 16:29:00 <Luke-Jr> tgs3: Silk Road being shutdown and its operator prosecuted
 822 2013-10-02 16:29:07 <tgs3> lol seriously?
 823 2013-10-02 16:29:14 <tgs3> but... how?
 824 2013-10-02 16:29:32 <tgs3> I thought FH was busted, now SR too?
 825 2013-10-02 16:29:33 <Luke-Jr> how what? read it, it's kinda off-topic here really
 826 2013-10-02 16:30:00 <tgs3> ok so it was not related to bitcoin security itself anyway?
 827 2013-10-02 16:30:55 <Luke-Jr> nah
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 833 2013-10-02 16:37:36 <BlueMatt> 26k btc seized...lets see what the doj does with them
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 835 2013-10-02 16:38:21 <tgs3> BlueMatt: what feds always does with lots of no-ones money
 836 2013-10-02 16:38:22 reneg has joined
 837 2013-10-02 16:38:29 <tgs3> donate to orphans and cancer research
 838 2013-10-02 16:38:37 <tgs3> patent free cancer research ofc
 839 2013-10-02 16:40:17 <BlueMatt> well its not exactly trivial to sell them off
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 843 2013-10-02 16:42:58 <michagogo> BlueMatt: Why not?
 844 2013-10-02 16:43:06 <michagogo> There are dark pools...
 845 2013-10-02 16:43:38 <BlueMatt> well, for starters, as the feds, which site do you go to that is considered legal in the us that you want to sell at
 846 2013-10-02 16:43:39 <BlueMatt> ?
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 848 2013-10-02 16:44:04 <michagogo> localbitcoins? :-P
 849 2013-10-02 16:44:10 <BlueMatt> yeaaaa.....
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 897 2013-10-02 17:23:58 <edcba> so we'll finally now if bitcoin main attract was drugs or not ?
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 899 2013-10-02 17:24:41 <swulf--> i give it 5 days until SR number 2 comes up
 900 2013-10-02 17:25:57 <edcba> 3 millions dollars is not that much
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 902 2013-10-02 17:26:25 <edcba> even if compared to other illegal activities it may be quite good
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1019 2013-10-02 19:31:17 <tim-tams> Anyone know why my BTC addresses imported to Multibit from a Blockchain.info backup would not match?
1020 2013-10-02 19:31:57 <tim-tams> some do and some don't, the one's that don't were originally from QT and the ones that do were created on blockchain.ingo
1021 2013-10-02 19:32:00 <tim-tams> info*
1022 2013-10-02 19:32:27 <jgarzik> sounds like compressed versus uncompressed public keys
1023 2013-10-02 19:33:22 <jgarzik> a single private key PrK may produce a compressed public key CPK or an uncompressed public key UPK.  Thus, each private key may result in _two_ bitcoin addresses.
1024 2013-10-02 19:33:33 <jgarzik> because bitcoin address == hash(public key)
1025 2013-10-02 19:33:41 <sipa> for a single secp256k1 private key, that is true
1026 2013-10-02 19:33:44 <tim-tams> will that cause conflict?
1027 2013-10-02 19:33:54 <sipa> for bitcoin private keys, not really, because they contain a flag to indicate which public key to use
1028 2013-10-02 19:33:58 <lianj> tim-tams: no, the base58 encoded privkey has a flag for it
1029 2013-10-02 19:34:05 <sipa> though not every application supports compressed one in the first place
1030 2013-10-02 19:34:16 <tim-tams> so i can send to either address an it will record on both wallets?
1031 2013-10-02 19:34:23 <sipa> no
1032 2013-10-02 19:34:27 <sipa> you import exactly one
1033 2013-10-02 19:34:35 <sipa> and you send to the corresponding address
1034 2013-10-02 19:35:04 <tim-tams> so basically, when I imported it it became an entirely different pub/private key pair?
1035 2013-10-02 19:35:16 <sipa> i believe multibit can't import compressed keys
1036 2013-10-02 19:35:25 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1037 2013-10-02 19:35:28 <sipa> it supports them natively, but can't import them or so
1038 2013-10-02 19:35:54 <sipa> (my data may be outdated or simply wrong)
1039 2013-10-02 19:36:03 <tim-tams> I'm a little lost but at least I know not to treat the addresses as the same
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1041 2013-10-02 19:36:29 <tim-tams> is there any way to convert the addresses on blockchain.info to uncompresses before backing them up?
1042 2013-10-02 19:36:39 <sipa> yes, but that's not relevant
1043 2013-10-02 19:36:51 <sipa> if you convert the key, the address will be different, and not match transactions sent to it
1044 2013-10-02 19:37:02 <tim-tams> couldn't I convert them to the right format and THEN import to multibit?
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1046 2013-10-02 19:37:13 <sipa> no, because the address will be different
1047 2013-10-02 19:37:16 <tim-tams> hmm
1048 2013-10-02 19:37:24 <tim-tams> address changes every time you convert it?
1049 2013-10-02 19:37:28 <lianj> no, you have to find a way to import the compressed ones in multibit then
1050 2013-10-02 19:37:46 <tim-tams> this is so confusing haha, sorry
1051 2013-10-02 19:38:14 <sipa> the compressed key has one address, the uncompressed key has another address
1052 2013-10-02 19:38:22 <sipa> for all intents and purposes, they are separate
1053 2013-10-02 19:38:29 <tim-tams> Ook then
1054 2013-10-02 19:38:52 <tim-tams> makes sense I guess, so you can't move from QT to MB and keep the same public addresses?
1055 2013-10-02 19:39:16 reneg has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
1056 2013-10-02 19:39:23 <sipa> maybe
1057 2013-10-02 19:39:26 <sipa> i'm unsure
1058 2013-10-02 19:40:06 <tim-tams> I'll probably just not even use multibit then, thanks anyway
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1060 2013-10-02 19:40:14 <tim-tams> I'll just keep using blockchain.info
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1063 2013-10-02 19:41:27 <jgarzik> tim-tams, Armory is a good one to try.
1064 2013-10-02 19:41:46 <tim-tams> can armory reach around a firewill through ssh tunnel?
1065 2013-10-02 19:42:07 <tim-tams> basically, can you choose specific nodes?
1066 2013-10-02 19:42:17 <tim-tams> to connect to?
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1068 2013-10-02 19:42:59 <jgarzik> tim-tams, I think so
1069 2013-10-02 19:43:07 <sipa> armory uses bitcoind in the background...
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1071 2013-10-02 19:43:36 <tim-tams> ok
1072 2013-10-02 19:43:39 <tim-tams> I may give that a shot
1073 2013-10-02 19:43:51 <tim-tams> should my keys import properly there?
1074 2013-10-02 19:44:05 <tim-tams> I think I must have a mix of compressed and uncompressed
1075 2013-10-02 19:45:25 <jgarzik> tim-tams, I don't know.
1076 2013-10-02 19:45:39 <jgarzik> tim-tams, Seems like it would be simpler to send all to new address (new key) in new wallet.
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1078 2013-10-02 19:45:50 <lianj> tim-tams: do some don't start with a 5
1079 2013-10-02 19:46:14 <tim-tams> I'm not sure about that, I can try to check
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1082 2013-10-02 19:48:07 <tim-tams> lianj what format do I check that in? bitcoin QT format shows some start with a 5, some with an L, and one even starts with a K
1083 2013-10-02 19:48:09 <lianj> but yea, thats prolly the cause. and yes, either fix multibit import or send them to a new address maybe
1084 2013-10-02 19:48:23 <lianj> yea, the l and k ones are compressed
1085 2013-10-02 19:48:31 <sipa> K and L are private keys with corresponding compressed pubkey
1086 2013-10-02 19:48:36 <tim-tams> Ook
1087 2013-10-02 19:48:37 <sipa> 5 is uncompressed
1088 2013-10-02 19:49:56 <tim-tams> but if I uncompress a key, it will no longer resolve to the same public address right?
1089 2013-10-02 19:50:11 <lianj> rite
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1091 2013-10-02 19:51:05 <tim-tams> So I just need a client that handles both, because I've got some compressed that I need to keep and some uncompressed I need to keep...
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1093 2013-10-02 19:52:41 <michagogo> tim-tams: Or just transfer the coins to an address or several addresses generated by your new wallet
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1096 2013-10-02 19:54:24 <tim-tams> michagogo I kinda wanted to keep the public addresses too though, but I'll figure something out
1097 2013-10-02 19:54:30 <tim-tams> not just the coins
1098 2013-10-02 19:54:35 <michagogo> ah
1099 2013-10-02 19:55:04 <michagogo> Well, you could run a client that supports sweeping and have it sweep those addresses into another one
1100 2013-10-02 19:55:09 <michagogo> or something like that
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1102 2013-10-02 19:55:17 <tim-tams> Are the addresses that appeared in MultiBit still usable though? or are the corrupted somehow because I imported compresses and it doesn't like that?
1103 2013-10-02 19:55:28 <tim-tams> they*
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1110 2013-10-02 20:13:16 <Ry4an> xbox feed definition meeting: "Should we offer a way to say what the primary audio language is?" "Sure, why not." "Should it be mandatory?" "Of course!"
1111 2013-10-02 20:13:21 <Ry4an> repeat for 100 items
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1115 2013-10-02 20:18:06 <Ry4an> sorry, wrong channel
1116 2013-10-02 20:18:27 <Ry4an> though if any of you ever get asked to produce an XML feed for Xbox as a favor, don't say yes. :)
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1149 2013-10-02 20:44:01 <roconnor> what's silk road's "tumber"?
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1157 2013-10-02 20:54:47 <jgarzik> roconnor, mixer
1158 2013-10-02 20:56:51 <gmaxwell> roconnor: what the complaint describes and what the'd previously described is that they obscured their coins by just cascading them between addresses, not actually a rigorous anonymization procedure. (Not that it would have helped them.)
1159 2013-10-02 20:58:49 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1160 2013-10-02 21:00:51 <jgarzik> The indictment is a laundry list of poor opsec.
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1166 2013-10-02 21:08:01 <roconnor> gmaxwell: how disappointing.
1167 2013-10-02 21:08:49 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: I agree
1168 2013-10-02 21:09:04 <Diablo-D3> the moral of the story is
1169 2013-10-02 21:09:09 <Diablo-D3> if you're going to sell drugs on the internet
1170 2013-10-02 21:09:29 <Diablo-D3> have a computer that only connects to the internet via tor, and only use your anon accounts on that computer
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1172 2013-10-02 21:09:44 <Diablo-D3> and never EVER mention ANYTHING on your real accounts
1173 2013-10-02 21:09:49 <BlueMatt> or...follow your own advice
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1175 2013-10-02 21:10:52 <Diablo-D3> he got busted for failing the last one
1176 2013-10-02 21:10:59 <Diablo-D3> they connected real life info to him
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1178 2013-10-02 21:11:43 <lianj> Diablo-D3: yea, running tor is easy, using tor+internet right when your freedom depends on it is the real skill
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1181 2013-10-02 21:12:17 <swulf--> so how did they find the location of the server?
1182 2013-10-02 21:12:45 <swulf--> credit card history to hosting provider?
1183 2013-10-02 21:12:50 <roconnor> gmaxwell: is there any level in which I can see that cascading coins between addresses will obsucre anything?
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1186 2013-10-02 21:14:21 <Diablo-D3> swulf--: probably
1187 2013-10-02 21:14:55 <swulf--> even if they found DPR, unless DPR specifically revealed that information, the server still should have been a bitch to find as it was supposed to be behind tor
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1189 2013-10-02 21:15:26 <Diablo-D3> yes, but he had to pay the bills somehow
1190 2013-10-02 21:15:32 <Diablo-D3> unless he paid for the server via bitcoins
1191 2013-10-02 21:15:53 <swulf--> right. bitcoin would have been the smart move
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1212 2013-10-02 21:29:17 <gjs278> dah now they're down $10 on btc-e
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1231 2013-10-02 21:50:55 <dgriffi> is anyone working on the problem of why bitcoin-qt won't compile under Debian Wheezy without some crippling configure options?
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1233 2013-10-02 21:51:23 <sipa> dgriffi: have you filed a bug?
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1236 2013-10-02 21:52:18 <dgriffi> sipa: I figured someone would have seen it by now given that wheezy has been stable for a few months now
1237 2013-10-02 21:52:55 <sipa> i don't know of any known issue
1238 2013-10-02 21:52:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|dgriffi: what's wrong with it?
1239 2013-10-02 21:53:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I haven't seen anything about it anywhere.
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1241 2013-10-02 21:53:54 <dgriffi> michagogo|cloud: well, first off, it wants BerkleyDB 4.8++ which is no longer in the repos
1242 2013-10-02 21:54:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah
1243 2013-10-02 21:54:13 <sipa> that's intentional
1244 2013-10-02 21:54:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, you can get that from oracle's website
1245 2013-10-02 21:54:31 <dgriffi> michagogo|cloud: there's a configure-time option to use 5.1 anyway, but with the caveat that wallet you make won't be portable
1246 2013-10-02 21:54:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Link is in release-process.md
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1248 2013-10-02 21:55:17 <sipa> that's a long-known and hated problem with bdb
1249 2013-10-02 21:55:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|dgriffi: also, if you were on Ubuntu, the bitcoin ppa has db4.8++
1250 2013-10-02 21:55:34 <sipa> we intend to get rid of bdb wallets at some point
1251 2013-10-02 21:55:50 <sipa> but for compatibility, there is no solution otherwise
1252 2013-10-02 21:55:52 <dgriffi> I use straight debian because the ubuntu people went insane
1253 2013-10-02 21:55:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But yeah, check doc/release-process.md for the link to get db
1254 2013-10-02 21:56:18 <sipa> or use 5.1
1255 2013-10-02 21:56:23 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: personally, who cares about portability XD
1256 2013-10-02 21:56:36 <Luke-Jr> unless you plan to move the wallet to Ubuntu/Windows later
1257 2013-10-02 21:56:38 <sipa> if you only plan to use self-compiled versions, there is no problem
1258 2013-10-02 21:56:41 <Luke-Jr> /Mac
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1260 2013-10-02 21:56:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Right, just remember that if you ever restore from a backup or anything like that, you'll need a 5.1 build
1261 2013-10-02 21:57:09 <dgriffi> so I ran configure with --with-incompatible-bdb and got a complaint that "Could not link against boost_thread-mt"
1262 2013-10-02 21:57:37 <sipa> i've seen that problem before iirc
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1265 2013-10-02 21:58:26 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: BTW, you're aware you're building mostly untested and unsupported code, right?
1266 2013-10-02 21:58:34 <sipa> note that this is git head, and the autotools buildsystem is very new
1267 2013-10-02 21:58:35 <Luke-Jr> (please stay and help debug problems in any case, but be aware of this)
1268 2013-10-02 21:58:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|dgriffi: what version of boost?
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1270 2013-10-02 21:58:47 <sipa> and has quirks that are being worked on
1271 2013-10-02 21:59:10 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what timing :P
1272 2013-10-02 21:59:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think doc/build-unix.md mentioned something like that?
1273 2013-10-02 21:59:18 <sipa> but helping getting them fixed is of course welcome
1274 2013-10-02 21:59:28 <sipa> !hi5 Luke-Jr
1275 2013-10-02 21:59:28 <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
1276 2013-10-02 21:59:35 <dgriffi> okay, that configure complaint is gone now after I installed the packages recommended by this page: http://wp.geeklab.com.ar/gl-en/2013/03/11/how-to-install-bitcoin-0-8-0-on-debian-wheezy-amd64/
1277 2013-10-02 22:00:23 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: well, that makes sense.. is there an error/omission in our docs? :x
1278 2013-10-02 22:00:32 <dgriffi> Luke-Jr: it seems so
1279 2013-10-02 22:00:47 <dgriffi> I'll write up a bug report this evening
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1281 2013-10-02 22:01:15 <sipa> 0.8.0 (and up to 0.8.5) used qmake/makefiles as build systems
1282 2013-10-02 22:01:27 <sipa> things are a bit different in git head
1283 2013-10-02 22:01:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|dgriffi: did you try building v0.8.5?
1284 2013-10-02 22:01:43 <sipa> and iirc the documentation isn't entirely updated yet
1285 2013-10-02 22:01:56 <Luke-Jr> dgriffi: thanks; it would be even more excellent if you did a Pull Request for the change itself
1286 2013-10-02 22:02:37 <dgriffi> Luke-Jr: sure.  I've done that before
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1419 2013-10-02 23:37:38 <hydromet> huge news today on silk road being shut down
1420 2013-10-02 23:38:36 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1421 2013-10-02 23:38:39 <Wild_Bill> long overdue
1422 2013-10-02 23:38:42 <hydromet> good riddance imho, and glad to see some of the US gov still functions despite the gov shutdown
1423 2013-10-02 23:38:55 <Wild_Bill> everything bad on the internet in one site
1424 2013-10-02 23:38:56 <Scrat> hydromet: unrelated news too, discuss it on #bitcoin (this is -dev)
1425 2013-10-02 23:38:57 <gmaxwell> hydromet: Totally OT for this channel, please take it elsewhere.
1426 2013-10-02 23:39:05 <Wild_Bill> k...sorry
1427 2013-10-02 23:39:09 <Diablo-D3> its still a great thing, though
1428 2013-10-02 23:39:38 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how many potential bitcoin devs were scared away because "bitcoin is used by criminals" or similar nonsense
1429 2013-10-02 23:40:58 <hydromet> I agree and its not entirely OT even for bitcoin-dev which is very important to the foundation and success of bitcoin for legitimate purposes
1430 2013-10-02 23:42:02 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1431 2013-10-02 23:43:20 <Wild_Bill> any opinion on best source for current exchange rates, via an API
1432 2013-10-02 23:44:27 p8m has quit (Quit: leaving)
1433 2013-10-02 23:44:56 <Wild_Bill> going to accept payment in BTC, customers are multi-national commerical/industrial
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1440 2013-10-02 23:54:05 <tgs3> gmaxwell: did you just kicked Diablo-D3? wtf?
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1443 2013-10-02 23:55:36 <gmaxwell> tgs3: not the first time, certantly not the last.
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1445 2013-10-02 23:57:07 <Neozonz> *certainly