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  11 2013-10-04 00:12:58 <crass> so after I get the server up, it creates the wallet.dat, however I still must create a new account / address, right?
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  24 2013-10-04 00:30:55 <[\\\]> crass, no
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  26 2013-10-04 00:31:15 <[\\\]> crass, by default it has a pool of 100 keys already made, just not necessarily presented to you
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  49 2013-10-04 01:07:46 <andytoshi> hey all, just tried updating my git to latest from 0.8.1
  50 2013-10-04 01:07:50 <andytoshi> getting the message
  51 2013-10-04 01:07:51 <andytoshi> util.h:119:2: error: #error missing boost sleep implementation
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  53 2013-10-04 01:09:10 <andytoshi> oh.. my makefile is custom, if the standard one has changed i will need to change mine
  54 2013-10-04 01:09:15 <andytoshi> maybe my fault, nvr mind
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  56 2013-10-04 01:10:09 <andytoshi> woah, autotools
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  60 2013-10-04 01:14:25 <crass> andytoshi: the newest version is 0.8.5
  61 2013-10-04 01:14:39 <andytoshi> crass: yeah, i see the new tags
  62 2013-10-04 01:15:05 <andytoshi> i have been busy for the last little while, got quite a bit behind
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  65 2013-10-04 01:17:06 <gavinandresen> andytoshi: make clean in the old tree before doing the autotools thing if you use git HEAD
  66 2013-10-04 01:18:20 <andytoshi> ok thanks gavin
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  68 2013-10-04 01:18:40 <andytoshi> right now i am updating my system, can't get ./configure to pass
  69 2013-10-04 01:18:43 <andytoshi> missing boost-chrono
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  93 2013-10-04 02:04:16 <crass> [\\\]: so is a key equivalent to an address?
  94 2013-10-04 02:05:48 wavelet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  95 2013-10-04 02:06:00 <Luke-Jr> crass: not exactly
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  97 2013-10-04 02:06:39 <Luke-Jr> crass: an address is merely a pointer to a wallet, representing a specific key in the wallet; but it's a one-way conversion thing
  98 2013-10-04 02:07:07 <crass> it a hash of an addres and wallet id
  99 2013-10-04 02:07:46 <crass> is there somewhere I can read abut all this?
 100 2013-10-04 02:08:15 rdymac has joined
 101 2013-10-04 02:08:45 <andytoshi> crass: the wiki is probably your best bet
 102 2013-10-04 02:09:03 <andytoshi> i didn't understand how addresses work until i wrote my own address-generator
 103 2013-10-04 02:09:09 <andytoshi> that's not a hard project, i think it's worth doing
 104 2013-10-04 02:09:28 <andytoshi> e.g., mine takes six random words from a dictionary then hashes them a million times, then converts that to an address
 105 2013-10-04 02:09:41 <andytoshi> understand how addresses were encoded*
 106 2013-10-04 02:11:14 <crass> yeah, sounds like a good project, I could probably just read the docs and get it, just haven't seen the docs
 107 2013-10-04 02:11:46 <crass> looking at the wiki though, its probably on there somewhere
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 142 2013-10-04 03:36:35 <Luke-Jr> thoughts on disallowing Sign Message on addresses that have received coins?
 143 2013-10-04 03:37:46 qbasicer has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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 145 2013-10-04 03:38:20 <warren> Luke-Jr: some people use it to prove they were the sender after the fact, yeah it sucks, but they have no other way.
 146 2013-10-04 03:38:27 qbasicer has joined
 147 2013-10-04 03:38:44 <Luke-Jr> warren: that is a reason to prevent it, since it doesn't prove that
 148 2013-10-04 03:39:08 <Luke-Jr> I'm biased against the restriction since it will break Eligius, but I think logically it'd be a good move
 149 2013-10-04 03:39:58 Application has joined
 150 2013-10-04 03:40:56 <coingenuity> Luke-Jr: it would create problems in otc....
 151 2013-10-04 03:41:06 <coingenuity> Luke-Jr: people donate to people's registered addresses all the time
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 153 2013-10-04 03:41:26 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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 155 2013-10-04 03:41:45 <coingenuity> ;;gpg info Luke-Jr
 156 2013-10-04 03:41:45 <gribble> User 'luke-jr', with keyid BD02942421F4889F, fingerprint E463A93F5F3117EEDE6C7316BD02942421F4889F, and bitcoin address 1927oaHjd6QKyFUWGRnx3sMWSmktrDdzto, registered on Sun Mar  6 16:14:00 2011. http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=luke-jr . Currently not authenticated.
 157 2013-10-04 03:41:47 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 158 2013-10-04 03:42:02 <coingenuity> ;;balance 1927oaHjd6QKyFUWGRnx3sMWSmktrDdzto
 159 2013-10-04 03:42:02 <gribble> 0
 160 2013-10-04 03:42:05 <coingenuity> heh
 161 2013-10-04 03:42:24 * coingenuity sends bitcoins just for a laugh
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 164 2013-10-04 03:43:20 <Luke-Jr> coingenuity: well don't do that :/
 165 2013-10-04 03:43:40 <coingenuity> lmao
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 167 2013-10-04 03:43:58 <Luke-Jr> hrm
 168 2013-10-04 03:44:09 <Luke-Jr> I guess that's a pretty practical problem, since we can't stop people from sending to it
 169 2013-10-04 03:44:59 <coingenuity> yeah, same way someone couldn't stop DPR from sending them a GPG email
 170 2013-10-04 03:45:26 <coingenuity> public keys are going to be public, in some way or another at one point :)
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 269 2013-10-04 07:14:39 <dizko> i was thinking abotu this in terms of political donation
 270 2013-10-04 07:14:56 <dizko> how do you stop people from sending you bitcoins
 271 2013-10-04 07:16:09 <Graet> same way you stop ppl mailing you cash, never give out your address
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 275 2013-10-04 07:17:53 <wumpus> dizko: as you should: give everyone their own receiving address, and only give it to people that you're prepared to accept donations from
 276 2013-10-04 07:17:55 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 277 2013-10-04 07:19:04 <dizko> ok but since political donations have to be made public, its reasonably to assume some of those legitimate addresses could be discovered
 278 2013-10-04 07:19:17 <dizko> or maybe not a political candidate, but some other public figure or organization
 279 2013-10-04 07:19:39 <dizko> it seems to create a new type of dillema with respect to how accountable you can be for people sending you money you didnt ask for
 280 2013-10-04 07:19:52 ovidiusoft has joined
 281 2013-10-04 07:20:22 <Graet> ppl can get live addresses from blockchain.info eg http://blockchain.info/largest-recent-transactions and send without even knowing who is at end
 282 2013-10-04 07:20:38 <Graet> there was a "dust spam" epidemic at one time
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 288 2013-10-04 07:23:49 <wumpus> dizko: that sounds a bit paranoid, I'm pretty sure no one will send substantial amounts of money without verifying who the receiver is
 289 2013-10-04 07:24:00 askmike has joined
 290 2013-10-04 07:24:04 <wumpus> for all they know they may be temporary addresses 
 291 2013-10-04 07:24:15 <wumpus> for example on one of the wallet sites...
 292 2013-10-04 07:24:21 <dizko> unless its intended to frame someone / make them look bad
 293 2013-10-04 07:25:04 <wumpus> I'm sure in practice there are much better ways to make people look bad
 294 2013-10-04 07:27:15 <dizko> yea im not suggesting this is a high priority concern, its just something that had occured to me previously and i remembered again because of coingenuity joking about sending unsolicited funds to luke-jr
 295 2013-10-04 07:27:30 _ingsoc has joined
 296 2013-10-04 07:28:11 <wumpus> luke-jr is certainly capable of just ignoring inputs if he wants to :)
 297 2013-10-04 07:28:12 <dizko> speaking of spam, a friend of mine was telling me about his idea to make an email system that uses bitcoins to reduce spam
 298 2013-10-04 07:28:20 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 299 2013-10-04 07:28:55 <wumpus> or sending a specific input to the coin eater :P
 300 2013-10-04 07:28:57 <warren> dizko: if you really care, I'm sure unsolicited political donations can be given someplace else to get rid of it.
 301 2013-10-04 07:29:06 <wumpus> output*
 302 2013-10-04 07:29:59 <EasyAt> dizko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash ?
 303 2013-10-04 07:30:19 <EasyAt> not bitcoins exactly
 304 2013-10-04 07:30:33 <dizko> right, i think that was his basis for the idea
 305 2013-10-04 07:31:03 <dizko> being that btc can be proof of work as well as adding the value of the coins
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 307 2013-10-04 07:36:32 <EasyAt> I wonder how much hash power would be generated if everyone had to mine for 10 seconds per email
 308 2013-10-04 07:37:44 <dizko> heh...the imagine of spammers with mining rigs makes me giggle a bit
 309 2013-10-04 07:37:50 <dizko> s/imagine/image/
 310 2013-10-04 07:38:54 Coincidental has joined
 311 2013-10-04 07:44:09 <sipa> dizko: hashcash is non-transferrable bitcoin :)
 312 2013-10-04 07:45:26 <EasyAt> with spammers running ASICs they could trivially fire off emails that would take a normal(non miner) ages to sign
 313 2013-10-04 07:45:27 wallet43 has joined
 314 2013-10-04 07:46:14 <razorfishsl> with spammers running ASIC's they would be loosing money.....
 315 2013-10-04 07:48:23 <sipa> yup
 316 2013-10-04 07:48:51 c0rw1n has joined
 317 2013-10-04 07:50:12 <razorfishsl> Over a year ago I gave BFL some cash so I could replace my Artificial leg.., by the time they shipped my kit, I make the same as a mexican bean farmer
 318 2013-10-04 07:50:23 molec has joined
 319 2013-10-04 07:50:43 <wumpus> razorfishsl: you have many of those computational divide problems with 'hashcash' like approaches to e-mail spam, for example the divide between mobile/desktop, or even browser/native code
 320 2013-10-04 07:51:13 <razorfishsl> What has that to do with my new leg?
 321 2013-10-04 07:51:42 <wumpus> nothing
 322 2013-10-04 07:52:14 <sipa> i don't see how your leg is on topic here
 323 2013-10-04 07:52:30 <razorfishsl> Which is about the same as my interest in  Spam email & bitcoin.... I just wish people would keep the stupid ideas for Litecoin
 324 2013-10-04 07:53:25 <dizko> haha, my friend is very  smart but not very well versed in btc.  i dont think he realized that the fee rquired is probably too large for email
 325 2013-10-04 07:53:29 <razorfishsl> wow elgius is on a roll
 326 2013-10-04 07:53:38 <dizko> i suggested litecoin ;)
 327 2013-10-04 07:55:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Re: disallowing signing from used addresses:
 328 2013-10-04 07:56:17 <razorfishsl> good idea
 329 2013-10-04 07:56:29 <razorfishsl> Especially with that Android feasco....
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 331 2013-10-04 07:56:54 <razorfishsl> *fiasco
 332 2013-10-04 07:57:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Actually, someone (don't remember who, can grep my logs when I'm back at me computer) sent me a millibitcoin or so to my gribble-registered address in order to timestamp it or something
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 335 2013-10-04 07:58:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But in general, it sounds like a bad idea to allow any user to invalidate anyone else's signing address
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 391 2013-10-04 09:25:38 <diki> Why are the forums down?
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 393 2013-10-04 09:28:02 <Graet> http://cryptolife.net/bitcointalk-hacked/  << diki
 394 2013-10-04 09:28:02 <sipa> they're hacked
 395 2013-10-04 09:28:37 <diki> oh shite
 396 2013-10-04 09:30:19 <diki> well 7500 rounds with sha256 doesn't seem like my password is compromised
 397 2013-10-04 09:31:00 <diki> unless of course SMF uses the password hash and user ID to authenticate in which case an identity can be assumed without my plaintext password
 398 2013-10-04 09:36:19 <wumpus> depends on for how long they've been compromised, if they had the site for a while they could have been intercepting the plaintext passwords; so if you use that password anywhere, do change it and consider it compromised
 399 2013-10-04 09:36:38 <wumpus> anywhere else*
 400 2013-10-04 09:37:35 <sipa> it had been comprimised for month, apparently
 401 2013-10-04 09:38:50 <diki> Well, I have not used it on the forums probably for months before the breach
 402 2013-10-04 09:39:06 <diki> I just had that remember me login option
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 421 2013-10-04 10:21:22 <Neozonz> Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-9338/product_id-16560/version_id-110955/year-2011/opxss-1/Simplemachines-SMF-1.1.8.html
 422 2013-10-04 10:21:28 <Neozonz> Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|^ bitcointalk exploit
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 434 2013-10-04 10:41:13 <nsh> Neozonz|Disc, 1.1.8 != 1.1.18
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 541 2013-10-04 13:50:16 <jouke> ;;seen snort
 542 2013-10-04 13:50:16 <gribble> I have not seen snort.
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 558 2013-10-04 14:10:06 <jgarzik> mornin'
 559 2013-10-04 14:10:15 <TD> hi there
 560 2013-10-04 14:10:16 <jgarzik> rinkeldekinkel
 561 2013-10-04 14:10:29 <jgarzik> I love Dutch onomatopoeia.
 562 2013-10-04 14:16:17 <michagogo> jgarzik: What is that supposed to be an onomatopoeia for?
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 567 2013-10-04 14:23:43 <helo> a train?
 568 2013-10-04 14:29:34 <sipa> it's the sound a door bell would make
 569 2013-10-04 14:29:51 <sipa> or a phone
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 574 2013-10-04 14:33:37 <wumpus> rinkeldekinkel is more like the sound of shattering of glass objects IMO
 575 2013-10-04 14:34:02 <wumpus> a phone or doorbell just 'rinkel's
 576 2013-10-04 14:34:26 <kinlo> wumpus: not in vl
 577 2013-10-04 14:34:44 <kinlo> shattering of glass objects would be more klingelingeling :)
 578 2013-10-04 14:34:52 <wumpus> hahahah okay
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 585 2013-10-04 14:43:02 <jgarzik> rinkeldekinkel is the sound made by a vuilniswagen, isn't that obvious?
 586 2013-10-04 14:43:37 <jgarzik> (garbage truck)
 587 2013-10-04 14:43:54 <jgarzik> Maybe that's the sound of garbage getting compacted?
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 589 2013-10-04 14:47:37 <helo> what does the fox say?
 590 2013-10-04 14:48:25 <helo> (your kids will like ^that video/song)
 591 2013-10-04 14:49:03 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 592 2013-10-04 14:49:18 <jgarzik> wumpus wins the prize
 593 2013-10-04 14:49:36 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 594 2013-10-04 14:49:41 <jgarzik> helo: wife already found it.  Amusingly, an Amsterdam cafe was playing that while I was eating, this past weekend.
 595 2013-10-04 14:49:45 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 598 2013-10-04 14:50:01 <helo> heh
 599 2013-10-04 14:50:05 <michagogo> jgarzik: prize?
 600 2013-10-04 14:50:35 <jgarzik> michagogo: 1 tnBTC
 601 2013-10-04 14:50:44 <michagogo> ;;googlt tnBTC
 602 2013-10-04 14:50:44 <gribble> Error: "googlt" is not a valid command.
 603 2013-10-04 14:50:47 <michagogo> ;;google tnBTC
 604 2013-10-04 14:50:48 <gribble> BusIndia.com™ Online Bus Ticket Booking on Mobile: <http://m.busindia.com/>; New crypto-currency Beertokens and it's Exchange - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493.0;wap2>; My faggot sister - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79jBjicP6Qc>
 605 2013-10-04 14:50:53 <michagogo> ;;google tnBTC bitcoin
 606 2013-10-04 14:50:53 <gribble> List of common currency abbreviations - bitcoin-otc wiki: <http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/List_of_common_currency_abbreviations>; New crypto-currency Beertokens and it's Exchange - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9493.0;wap2>; here - BitcoinStats: <http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/04/03>
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 608 2013-10-04 14:51:10 <michagogo> [17:45:53] <helo> what does the fox say?
 609 2013-10-04 14:51:10 <michagogo> [17:46:40] <helo> (your kids will like ^that video/song)
 610 2013-10-04 14:51:10 <michagogo> ...that's a very weird song.
 611 2013-10-04 14:51:18 <michagogo> Oh, ofc
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 619 2013-10-04 14:56:14 <jgarzik> michagogo: testnet bitcoins
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 621 2013-10-04 14:56:23 <michagogo> yeah, I got that
 622 2013-10-04 14:56:41 <michagogo> I was thinking it had something to do with Luke's number system
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 636 2013-10-04 15:17:03 <jgarzik> Schneier details NSA Tor attack methods: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/04/tor-attacks-nsa-users-online-anonymity
 637 2013-10-04 15:19:33 <nsh> quite educational. still reading
 638 2013-10-04 15:19:38 <jgarzik> Ahhh, something that was non-obvious until now:  Tor browser bundle has been shipping older Firefoxes, which [by definition] do not include the latest bug fixes.
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 642 2013-10-04 15:20:37 <jgarzik> I knew NSA was exploited older Firefoxes, but did not know that the Tor browser bundle was inhibiting the distribution of bugfixed Firefoxes
 643 2013-10-04 15:20:44 <nsh> jgarzik, that became clear to me after the tor exploit on freedom hosting onion sites
 644 2013-10-04 15:21:04 Eiii has joined
 645 2013-10-04 15:21:10 <nsh> well, it's more that TBB release cycle is longer than firefox's and probably some other stability issues
 646 2013-10-04 15:21:24 <nsh> the other major problem is a lot of people who are privacy/anonymity-conscious use TBB from live-CDs
 647 2013-10-04 15:21:34 <nsh> or other live media, which are basically impossible to update
 648 2013-10-04 15:21:51 <TD> jgarzik: ah that must be the story applebaum was talking about
 649 2013-10-04 15:22:03 <nsh> aye
 650 2013-10-04 15:22:25 <nsh> you can see schneier's input to this article and i'm very grateful for it
 651 2013-10-04 15:22:42 <nsh> there is a serious attempt to describe the details of the attacks
 652 2013-10-04 15:22:56 <nsh> at least in overview
 653 2013-10-04 15:23:09 <nsh> i doubt there exists a more technically dense guardian article
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 655 2013-10-04 15:24:04 <TD> "EgotisticalGiraffe" ?
 656 2013-10-04 15:24:09 <TD> where do they get these names?
 657 2013-10-04 15:24:31 <nsh> Special Agent Mark V Cheney
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 664 2013-10-04 15:28:44 <jgarzik> NSA has fast computer to auto-MITM: not news
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 666 2013-10-04 15:28:50 <jgarzik> *computers
 667 2013-10-04 15:28:52 <TD> it's news to me
 668 2013-10-04 15:29:00 <TD> how does this race condition work, exactly? racing DNS?
 669 2013-10-04 15:29:38 <TD> if they "just" injected packets they'd collide with the real servers SYNACK. i am struggling to think of a case except for DNS where merely being faster than another server would allow for a silent MITM
 670 2013-10-04 15:31:19 <jgarzik> TD, The NSA has had direct access to all major Internet hubs in the US, and many cables and fun overseas, since at least 2001, if not mid 1990's.  They have already had the physical, budgetry and technical ability to MITM at whatever level current technology permits.  MITM races in general become easier if you impersonating a Tor server with 140ms RTT with a server a couple hops away from the target.
 671 2013-10-04 15:31:43 <jgarzik> These details may be new, but the possibility has existed for decades
 672 2013-10-04 15:32:22 <jgarzik> Just have to look at current technology levels and extrapolate.  It doesn't even take a big budget to do this.  Many millions, but not necessarily even billions.
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 674 2013-10-04 15:32:29 <kjj> TOR should add a mode that does an entropy calculation before starting work on a packet.  not encrypted, rejected
 675 2013-10-04 15:32:50 c0rw1n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 676 2013-10-04 15:32:53 <jgarzik> Tor should regularize packet size and timing, pronto.
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 678 2013-10-04 15:33:16 <jgarzik> And Great Minds should figure out a decentralized way to pay people to relay (== some model to support network health)
 679 2013-10-04 15:33:22 <kjj> that too.  doesn't it generate bogus flows already?
 680 2013-10-04 15:33:32 <jgarzik> it does a bit
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 682 2013-10-04 15:33:51 <jgarzik> but over time it should be quite easy to figure out gross protocol fingerprint
 683 2013-10-04 15:34:18 <jgarzik> certain events happen on the bitcoin network simultaneously worldwide, making it behave unlike HTTP or bittorrent
 684 2013-10-04 15:35:03 <kjj> I guess the best solution is to stop bridging to the regular internet
 685 2013-10-04 15:35:14 <jgarzik> The safest masking is also the most expensive:  send at max bandwidth, all the time.
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 687 2013-10-04 15:35:33 <kjj> no more exit nodes, no more exit node monitoring
 688 2013-10-04 15:35:39 <arioBarzan> when bitcointalk.org will be back?
 689 2013-10-04 15:35:48 <jgarzik> arioBarzan, days, at least
 690 2013-10-04 15:36:16 <jgarzik> kjj, it is impossible to eliminate bridging
 691 2013-10-04 15:36:21 <kjj> the email was light on details.  was it serious?
 692 2013-10-04 15:36:27 <jgarzik> kjj, it's a network for data transit
 693 2013-10-04 15:36:44 <TD> lol
 694 2013-10-04 15:36:51 <TD> the "terrorist with tor client installed" graphic is hilarious
 695 2013-10-04 15:36:57 <kjj> jgarzik: it also allows internal termination, which so far appears to be vastly safer
 696 2013-10-04 15:37:09 <TD> bah
 697 2013-10-04 15:37:15 <TD> this presentation is from 6 years ago
 698 2013-10-04 15:37:23 <TD> it's almost certainly obsolete
 699 2013-10-04 15:37:49 <jgarzik> sadly I agree with cryptome.org tweets:  Glenn Greenwald and Bruce Schneier are writing meta-pieces, which are light on details.  Some on purpose, as they themselves admit not wanting to expose specific methods [more than they already have].
 700 2013-10-04 15:38:06 <jgarzik> or publish outdated info
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 702 2013-10-04 15:39:07 <jgarzik> It does not take a genius to conclude that it is already easy to "degrade/deny/disrupt Tor access"
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 704 2013-10-04 15:45:05 <TD> yeah this round of Tor disclosures is almost worthless
 705 2013-10-04 15:45:22 <TD> i'm wondering if there's gonna be a split between snowden and the guardian soon, as there was with wikileaks
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 710 2013-10-04 15:50:31 <jgarzik> TD, I heard Snowden was out of money, for whatever that means
 711 2013-10-04 15:50:40 <TD> where did  you read that?
 712 2013-10-04 15:50:40 <jgarzik> might not be in a strong position to split from anything
 713 2013-10-04 15:50:48 <TD> he had a bunch of job offers the moment he left the airport
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 715 2013-10-04 15:51:02 * jgarzik handwaves somewhere on the web or twitter, while in Amsterdam
 716 2013-10-04 15:51:21 <jgarzik> so < 7 days ago
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 719 2013-10-04 15:54:07 <TD> http://nos.nl/artikel/558286-hoe-belgacom-werd-gekraakt.html
 720 2013-10-04 15:54:07 <TD> super
 721 2013-10-04 15:54:27 <TD> In mid-September announced that Belgacom has been hacked, the company wants to believe that the hackers were particularly interested in communication with the Middle East. But that was a smokescreen, now appears: the real goal was to be able to listen to international organizations in Brussels via BICS.
 722 2013-10-04 15:54:34 <TD> also - espionage stopped on british bank holidays
 723 2013-10-04 15:54:46 <TD> UK is even worse than the USA sometimes :(
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 739 2013-10-04 16:04:01 <TD> jgarzik: i wonder if he's having trouble opening a bank account
 740 2013-10-04 16:04:25 <TD> jgarzik: i would assume any bank would fear retaliation if they did that. but i'm sure he can find an arrangement. he has friends in russia, people who want to employ him. worst case scenario he can engage in public fund raising.
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 742 2013-10-04 16:05:19 <TD> anyway. home time.
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 775 2013-10-04 16:49:36 <nsh> <TD> this presentation is from 6 years ago
 776 2013-10-04 16:49:52 <nsh> the first version was, it's been updated as recently as last july, maybe since
 777 2013-10-04 16:50:06 <nsh> (they mention things that didn't exist until recently)
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 801 2013-10-04 17:21:24 <gmaxwell> 08:22 < TD> where do they get these names?
 802 2013-10-04 17:21:58 <gmaxwell> codenames for top secret things are pulled out of some generic codename book in order to make them unrelated to the projects.
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 813 2013-10-04 17:32:16 <jgarzik> "GCHQ runs Tor nodes under NEWTONS CRADLE (how many?)"
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 815 2013-10-04 17:32:40 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, not always.  Several of these programs follow similar themes, e.g. civil war battles
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 818 2013-10-04 17:34:12 <jgarzik> http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document
 819 2013-10-04 17:36:26 <jgarzik> Analytics: Dumb Users (EPICFAIL).  Looks for Tor users when they are not using Tor.
 820 2013-10-04 17:37:02 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 821 2013-10-04 17:38:14 <jgarzik> really, we need a decentralized torservers.net, though
 822 2013-10-04 17:38:28 * jgarzik has donated bitcoins to torservers.net, which gets a mention
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 824 2013-10-04 17:43:54 <jgarzik> In addition to text notes criticizing the government, people have sent thousands of dollars worth of BTC to this address, where silkroad seized coins are held:
 825 2013-10-04 17:43:55 <jgarzik> https://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX
 826 2013-10-04 17:44:28 <jgarzik> Anybody willing to run a taint check?
 827 2013-10-04 17:44:41 <jgarzik> Are these coins from mybitcoin, bitcoinica, allinvain, or another famous theft?
 828 2013-10-04 17:45:04 <jgarzik> "Launder money through the FBI" is certainly a new tactic.
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 830 2013-10-04 17:46:33 <Ry4an> jgarzik: I think everything above $100 was part of the govenments initial sweep of the wallets, which the court order says is continuous.
 831 2013-10-04 17:47:03 <jgarzik> ah
 832 2013-10-04 17:47:26 <jgarzik> I saw recent, large BTC transactions that seemed to appear after the initial arrest sweep.
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 837 2013-10-04 17:52:18 <Ry4an> yeah, I think after the first humorous 0.1337 everything has been low value
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 887 2013-10-04 19:19:41 <midnightmagic> not much of a laundry. send it to them, lose it forever.
 888 2013-10-04 19:19:44 <TD> hello
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1002 2013-10-04 21:28:25 <TD> jgarzik: you there?
1003 2013-10-04 21:30:46 <TD> i'm trying out medium.com, it's sort of a blog crossed with a general article library. i wrote an article on how to create distributed p2p communities that nevertheless have an enforced set of shared values
1004 2013-10-04 21:31:00 <TD> it has a collaborate feature that lets people comment on a draft
1005 2013-10-04 21:31:13 <TD> so i figured maybe you could review it :)
1006 2013-10-04 21:31:19 <TD> (or anyone else who is interested)
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1014 2013-10-04 21:37:58 <TD> petertodd: re: your comment on reddit. you have to be careful with those presentations. some of them are dated 2007, that's too long ago to conclude much
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1024 2013-10-04 21:54:33 <crass> what is the full block chain size at these days?
1025 2013-10-04 21:57:14 <pankkake> 13G
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1058 2013-10-04 22:45:13 <sipa> jgarzik: 'rinkelen' is the verb referring to making the sound of a ringing phone
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1069 2013-10-04 22:56:28 <petertodd> TD: the one I linked is from 2012, not 2007. Dunno about the other one. Anyway I made clear that the NSA very much could spend the money to subvert Tor if they wanted too by shear force-of-will.
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1074 2013-10-04 23:02:35 nanotube is now known as bitcoin
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1080 2013-10-04 23:07:48 <MC1984> Im surprised they cant do global timing analysis with the setup theyve got
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1082 2013-10-04 23:08:00 <MC1984> i read tor isnt strong againt an insane attack like that
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1085 2013-10-04 23:09:02 <petertodd> Timing analysis is harder than you'd think because Tor nodes tend to run close enough to capacity that watching individual connections is hard. OTOH if you are running a hidden service, uptime timing analysis is scary...
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1089 2013-10-04 23:11:34 <crass> any graphs out there showing the blockchain growth over time?
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1091 2013-10-04 23:11:55 <petertodd> http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
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1099 2013-10-04 23:14:42 <MC1984> they mentioned something about that
1100 2013-10-04 23:15:27 <crass> petertodd: well, it looks linear, which is suspicious, I'd expect exponential
1101 2013-10-04 23:15:58 <crass> is that expected to level of or go logarithmic after the last bitcoin is mined?
1102 2013-10-04 23:16:23 <petertodd> crass: the # of transactions on the blockchain has very little to do with the # of bitcoin economic transactions that actually happen
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1104 2013-10-04 23:17:37 <crass> petertodd: ok, so it sounds like it should level off at the end of mining then?
1105 2013-10-04 23:18:13 <MC1984> why doesnt that shart look better since satoshi dice died
1106 2013-10-04 23:18:26 <petertodd> crass: do you realize there is a 1MB maximum blocksize?
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1108 2013-10-04 23:19:02 <crass> petertodd: I don't know a whole lot about bitcoin in general, so no
1109 2013-10-04 23:19:11 <petertodd> MC1984: because satoshidice spawned a bunch of competitors? who knows
1110 2013-10-04 23:19:23 <crass> and there are a maximum number of blocks?
1111 2013-10-04 23:19:34 <petertodd> crass: yeah, 1MB maximum, or 57GiB/year, or ~3KiB/second (from memory)
1112 2013-10-04 23:19:41 <petertodd> crass: 1 block every 10 minutes on average
1113 2013-10-04 23:19:58 <MC1984> theyre off chain though right
1114 2013-10-04 23:19:58 <crass> are you talking traffic?
1115 2013-10-04 23:20:02 <MC1984> just dice claims to be
1116 2013-10-04 23:20:11 <petertodd> crass: blockchain data traffic yes
1117 2013-10-04 23:20:28 <crass> otherwise that seems to conflict with the real world.  The current chain data is 13G
1118 2013-10-04 23:20:41 <crass> naw, I'm just talking about what is stored
1119 2013-10-04 23:20:42 <petertodd> crass: point is, transaction space is subject to supply and demand, and we've got a fixed supply so growth simply can't be exponential
1120 2013-10-04 23:21:05 <petertodd> crass: yes, I said maximum, right now miners tend to mine blocks no larger than 250KiB
1121 2013-10-04 23:21:06 <crass> sure it can, for a time
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1123 2013-10-04 23:21:20 <crass> ahh, ok
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1125 2013-10-04 23:21:48 <crass> a fixed supply with an exponentially insreasing transaction rate
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1127 2013-10-04 23:22:02 <petertodd> crass: no, a fixed supply *of transactions*
1128 2013-10-04 23:22:21 <petertodd> crass: it's a market place, with a bidding system for blockchain space
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1132 2013-10-04 23:23:25 <crass> why is there a fixed suppy of transactions?
1133 2013-10-04 23:23:48 <crass> I would think that number of transactions would be related to total hashing power
1134 2013-10-04 23:23:55 <petertodd> because Bitcoin has O(n^2) scaling basically
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1136 2013-10-04 23:24:09 <petertodd> hashing has nothing to do with the computer power/storage/bandwidth required to process transactions
1137 2013-10-04 23:24:14 <crass> cause of the network effect?
1138 2013-10-04 23:24:44 <crass> ok, you can see how much I know :)
1139 2013-10-04 23:25:04 <petertodd> network effect has nothing to do with it...
1140 2013-10-04 23:25:10 <petertodd> yeah, you don't know much :)
1141 2013-10-04 23:25:18 <petertodd> have you read the satoshi paper?
1142 2013-10-04 23:25:51 <MC1984> has the locks bug been triggered again yet?
1143 2013-10-04 23:26:08 <petertodd> yes, 0.7 is now forked (sort of
1144 2013-10-04 23:26:08 <petertodd> )
1145 2013-10-04 23:26:12 <crass> nope, probably won't for a while, I'm not looking to be an academic on it, just some working knowledge
1146 2013-10-04 23:26:27 <MC1984> ooo what block did it happen do you know
1147 2013-10-04 23:26:56 <petertodd> crass: read this bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf‎ it's not that hard to understand, and you're asking questions that are answered by it (and maybe some thinking)
1148 2013-10-04 23:27:03 <crass> the network effect was related to the O(n^2) comment, since traffic increases O(n^2) in a broadcast network
1149 2013-10-04 23:27:06 <petertodd> MC1984: it says in BIP50
1150 2013-10-04 23:27:13 <petertodd> crass: correct
1151 2013-10-04 23:27:38 <MC1984> k
1152 2013-10-04 23:28:30 <crass> hmm, url no existe
1153 2013-10-04 23:30:07 <petertodd> http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf <- that should exist
1154 2013-10-04 23:30:14 <crass> weird, it does
1155 2013-10-04 23:30:44 <petertodd> good, now read it :)
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1172 2013-10-04 23:49:40 <MC1984> 16 august the second locks bug was
1173 2013-10-04 23:49:47 <MC1984> that took a while
1174 2013-10-04 23:51:25 <MC1984> ah yes it was eligius thought it might be
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