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  25 2013-10-15 01:10:12 <shamoon> trying to build
  26 2013-10-15 01:10:16 <shamoon> P=0 -DUSE_IPV6=1 -I/home/ubuntu/bitcoin/src/leveldb/include -I/home/ubuntu/bitcoin/src/leveldb/helpers -DHAVE_BUILD_INFO -fno-stack-protector -fstack-protector-all -Wstack-protector -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2  -MMD -MF obj/bitcoinrpc.d -o obj/bitcoinrpc.o bitcoinrpc.cpp
  27 2013-10-15 01:10:16 <shamoon> g++: internal compiler error: Killed (program cc1plus)
  28 2013-10-15 01:10:21 <shamoon> Luke-Jr: you around?
  29 2013-10-15 01:10:26 <Luke-Jr> ?
  30 2013-10-15 01:10:54 <Luke-Jr> shamoon: out of memory
  31 2013-10-15 01:10:58 <shamoon> blast
  32 2013-10-15 01:11:20 <shamoon> so a micro AWS instance won't cut it, eh?
  33 2013-10-15 01:11:34 <shamoon> how much memory do i need?
  34 2013-10-15 01:11:48 <Luke-Jr> dunno, 16 GB seems to work
  35 2013-10-15 01:12:48 <shamoon> damn, the 16GB instances are pricey
  36 2013-10-15 01:14:18 <maaku> shamoon: you can *run* bitcoind on a micro instance (not recommended for other reasons)
  37 2013-10-15 01:14:38 <shamoon> but not for development, i guess
  38 2013-10-15 01:14:41 <maaku> just compile it on your own vm
  39 2013-10-15 01:14:51 <gmaxwell> Compiling it takes more memory than running it.
  40 2013-10-15 01:15:06 <shamoon> okay, so i'll set up a VM on my mac
  41 2013-10-15 01:15:07 <shamoon> and use that
  42 2013-10-15 01:15:09 <maaku> yeah should have started with that ^^
  43 2013-10-15 01:15:24 <Luke-Jr> hmm, I bet 4 GB is sufficient for compiling - or else it wouldn't build on x86 :D
  44 2013-10-15 01:17:48 tourmaline has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  45 2013-10-15 01:18:50 <maaku> I've compiled on a 1GB instance, but that may have been pushing it
  46 2013-10-15 01:18:56 <shamoon> so once i compile on my VM, i just move bitcoind to my aws instance?
  47 2013-10-15 01:18:59 <maaku> depends very much on what else you have running
  48 2013-10-15 01:19:04 <shamoon> and if all the deps are there, it should run?
  49 2013-10-15 01:19:26 <maaku> shamoon: yes, but you can also enable static linking so it will not require the deps
  50 2013-10-15 01:19:36 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  51 2013-10-15 01:19:37 <shamoon> maaku: how does one do such a thing?
  52 2013-10-15 01:19:50 <maaku> not sure about the new autotools, but usually --enable-static
  53 2013-10-15 01:20:06 <maaku> in the old v0.8.5 look for the RELEASE=1 make flag
  54 2013-10-15 01:20:56 <shamoon> and then i just copy the one bitcoind file over?
  55 2013-10-15 01:21:02 <Luke-Jr> FYI: static linking uses more memory and is a bad practice in general
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  57 2013-10-15 01:21:54 <gmaxwell> yea, static is not a good call for your own usage. We use it to build binaries that will run reliably on radically different systems, but generally you should avoid it.
  58 2013-10-15 01:22:27 <maaku> it only adds ~10 mb right?
  59 2013-10-15 01:22:46 <maaku> less if you consider that some of these deps aren't present
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  61 2013-10-15 01:24:08 <shamoon> what's the min HD space i need?
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  63 2013-10-15 01:25:10 <gmaxwell> maaku: also, on a lot of more recent distributions you can't simply just make static builds because static versions of libraries are not installed by default (or don't even exist, e.g. libz when maintainers got tired of the 1001st rebuild the whole distro security event)
  64 2013-10-15 01:25:57 <maaku> shamoon: 15+GB for bitcoin data alone
  65 2013-10-15 01:26:05 <shamoon> so 24GB should do it?
  66 2013-10-15 01:26:10 <gjs278> lol no
  67 2013-10-15 01:26:12 <gjs278> because eventually
  68 2013-10-15 01:26:15 <gjs278> 24gb won't be enough
  69 2013-10-15 01:26:20 * Luke-Jr intentionally sets up his libraries to refuse to make static versions
  70 2013-10-15 01:26:25 <maaku> shamoon: you're using a VM right? make it dynamically sizable
  71 2013-10-15 01:26:53 <maaku> it will only take up actual disk used
  72 2013-10-15 01:26:53 <gjs278> just add more swap and compile it
  73 2013-10-15 01:26:59 <shamoon> parallels
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  81 2013-10-15 01:35:45 <olalonde> i have a question regarding mining. once a miner has begun incrementing the nonce, what is his incentive for including new transactions and resetting the nonce to 0?
  82 2013-10-15 01:36:30 <olalonde> also, does the nonce have a maximum size?
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  84 2013-10-15 01:40:07 <olalonde> i understand there is a transaction fee but at the same time, if you've been trying to solve your block for a while, it kind of sucks starting again
  85 2013-10-15 01:40:12 <olalonde> anyone understands what i mean?
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  90 2013-10-15 01:48:10 <shamoon> SO much faster with more ram!
  91 2013-10-15 01:48:26 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  92 2013-10-15 01:48:30 <shamoon> olalonde: as far as i understand it...
  93 2013-10-15 01:48:37 <shamoon> incrementing the nonce
  94 2013-10-15 01:48:43 <shamoon> has the same effect as adding a new TX
  95 2013-10-15 01:48:52 <shamoon> the new TX with an old nonce might solv the block
  96 2013-10-15 01:48:58 <shamoon> so there is no "starting again"
  97 2013-10-15 01:49:06 <olalonde> right
  98 2013-10-15 01:49:11 <shamoon> Luke-Jr: almost there,
  99 2013-10-15 01:49:11 <shamoon> db.h:14:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
 100 2013-10-15 01:49:26 <olalonde> but _theoritcally_ what if you incremented the nonce to 10^20
 101 2013-10-15 01:49:41 <olalonde> aren't you more likely to find a solution sooner?
 102 2013-10-15 01:49:52 <shamoon> why?
 103 2013-10-15 01:50:06 <olalonde> I guess my question really is… what is the maximum nonce that guarantees a solution will be found
 104 2013-10-15 01:50:22 <shamoon> there is none
 105 2013-10-15 01:50:33 <shamoon> i think if you go through aLL The nonces and STILL no solution, it starts to change some header stuff
 106 2013-10-15 01:50:35 <shamoon> i think
 107 2013-10-15 01:50:42 <olalonde> i see
 108 2013-10-15 01:50:57 <shamoon> olalonde: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12956/what-happens-when-the-nonce-field-overflows
 109 2013-10-15 01:51:10 <olalonde> would it be theoretically possible for a block to be "unsolvable" ?
 110 2013-10-15 01:51:14 <olalonde> ok thanks, will read that
 111 2013-10-15 01:51:54 <shamoon> i guess theoretically, a block could be unsolveable
 112 2013-10-15 01:51:57 <shamoon> but a new transaction
 113 2013-10-15 01:51:58 <shamoon> will change that
 114 2013-10-15 01:51:59 <shamoon> or a new time
 115 2013-10-15 01:52:14 <shamoon> and the fact that every miner has a different coinbase transaction
 116 2013-10-15 01:52:54 <olalonde> right
 117 2013-10-15 01:53:00 <shamoon> so more realistically.. i suppose that it's possible that RIGHT NOW, it's possible for YOU to have an unsolveable block
 118 2013-10-15 01:53:05 <shamoon> but changing the time changes that
 119 2013-10-15 01:53:25 <shamoon> maaku: make -f makefile.unix
 120 2013-10-15 01:53:28 <shamoon> how can i static link that?
 121 2013-10-15 01:53:31 <shamoon> as you were saying?
 122 2013-10-15 01:53:31 <olalonde> makes some sense :)
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 127 2013-10-15 01:55:17 <olalonde> so to answer my question, since it is possible that you have an unsolveable block, it doesn't really change anything to your likelihood of  solving the block to add a new transaction
 128 2013-10-15 01:55:24 <shamoon> correct
 129 2013-10-15 01:57:08 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 130 2013-10-15 01:57:09 <shamoon> where in the code does it start the peer discovery process?
 131 2013-10-15 01:59:00 Coincidental has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 133 2013-10-15 02:02:28 <olalonde> found good explanation here http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/9933/is-it-possible-for-the-network-to-stop-finding-valid-blocks
 134 2013-10-15 02:05:27 <olalonde> probably somewhere in main.cpp haha
 135 2013-10-15 02:06:22 <shamoon> lol
 136 2013-10-15 02:06:31 <shamoon> i'm looking
 137 2013-10-15 02:08:44 <shamoon> nothing
 138 2013-10-15 02:09:04 <shamoon> from what i understand, there are some default IP's or nodes hardcoded
 139 2013-10-15 02:09:05 <shamoon> somewhere
 140 2013-10-15 02:09:10 <shamoon> got it
 141 2013-10-15 02:10:54 <shamoon> all the printf's - does that go to a log file somewhere?
 142 2013-10-15 02:12:30 shamoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 143 2013-10-15 02:14:17 <olalonde> most of the code seems to be in net.cpp
 144 2013-10-15 02:16:00 BlackPrapor has quit (2!~kvirc@46.191.218.190|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 145 2013-10-15 02:17:26 <olalonde> this might help https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Client_Node_Discovery
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 156 2013-10-15 02:37:36 <jgarzik> sipa, gmaxwell gavinandresen  wumpus: ACK troll https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2844 - Add unauthenticated HTTP REST interface
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 211 2013-10-15 04:47:09 <Luke-Jr> fwiw, apparently some n00bs look to donate to bfgminer with google, and come up on blockchain.info pages showing me sending funds to others, and then assume the recipient is my donation address :/
 212 2013-10-15 04:47:24 <Luke-Jr> that is, someone just donated to me using the address I sent some of my previous donations to :|
 213 2013-10-15 04:49:41 <MC1984> dont complain about free money
 214 2013-10-15 04:50:14 <gmaxwell> MC1984: read that again.
 215 2013-10-15 04:51:20 <MC1984> how do you know sometimes tried to shoot you money and missed then
 216 2013-10-15 04:51:23 <MC1984> if you didnt get it
 217 2013-10-15 04:51:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I see how: bc.i actually hides the "bfgminer donation" address and replaces it with that text.
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 220 2013-10-15 04:59:29 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: in this particular case, the recipient was my Coinbase account
 221 2013-10-15 04:59:39 <Luke-Jr> I asked how he managed to find that address
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 237 2013-10-15 06:19:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: any problem with the merge script?
 238 2013-10-15 06:19:45 <gavinandresen> sipa: I had to tweak it a bit to work on OSX… mktemp difference
 239 2013-10-15 06:21:53 <sipa> oh blast
 240 2013-10-15 06:22:34 <gavinandresen> sipa:  TMPDIR="$(mktemp -d -t GHM)"
 241 2013-10-15 06:23:15 <gavinandresen> sipa: I also tweaked the git diff (personal preference):  git diff -b --patience pull/"$PULL"/base..pull/"$PULL"/merge
 242 2013-10-15 06:24:23 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: git config --global diff.algorithm patience
 243 2013-10-15 06:24:30 <gavinandresen> sipa: … and I'm contemplating the "sign merges" functionality.  I don't like to decrypt my protects-the-world gpg key very often.
 244 2013-10-15 06:24:35 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: cool, thanks.
 245 2013-10-15 06:24:43 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: make another subkey for that.
 246 2013-10-15 06:25:24 <gmaxwell> you can have any number of subkeys under your main key, and it's possible to e.g. have just one of the subkeys online.  and revoke it if it gets compromised or whatever.
 247 2013-10-15 06:25:29 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yeah, but another subkey means publishing that somewhere and dealing with questions of "Is this the right key?  Not the one you used to sign blah blah blah"
 248 2013-10-15 06:25:56 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: If its an actual subkey it's authenticated by your normal primary key.
 249 2013-10-15 06:26:21 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: okey dokey.  That means I need to learn about pgp subkeys, and my brain is full.....
 250 2013-10-15 06:26:31 <gmaxwell> I know the feeling, I do not blame you.
 251 2013-10-15 06:26:43 <sipa> well, that was sort of the reason for writing the script
 252 2013-10-15 06:26:55 <gmaxwell> other approach is to use another key, ignore the complaints... still better than no signature at all.
 253 2013-10-15 06:27:04 lclc has joined
 254 2013-10-15 06:27:04 <sipa> right now github could do all sorts of strange things with our repository :)
 255 2013-10-15 06:27:12 <gmaxwell> Other people aren't likely to complain. (I guess it would be good news if they were!)
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 257 2013-10-15 06:27:46 <sipa> though i like not needing to rely on webinterfaces too
 258 2013-10-15 06:28:21 <gavinandresen> sipa: in any case, my first experiment with the signing feature seemed to pick my oldest, 1024-bit key to sign with. I didn't look at how it decides which key to use.
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 260 2013-10-15 06:29:03 <sipa> ah, you need to use --gpg-sign=key to change it
 261 2013-10-15 06:29:20 <sipa> didn't have that problem here, as all old keys i have are revoked
 262 2013-10-15 06:29:24 <sipa> btw:
 263 2013-10-15 06:29:26 <sipa> pw@vps7135:~$ mktemp -d -t GHM
 264 2013-10-15 06:29:29 <sipa> mktemp: too few X's in template `GHM'
 265 2013-10-15 06:29:57 <warren> gavinandresen: .gnupg/gpg.conf  add "default-key YOURKEYID"
 266 2013-10-15 06:30:03 <gavinandresen> on osx:  -t prefix  Generate a template (using the supplied prefix and TMPDIR if set) to create a filename template.
 267 2013-10-15 06:31:03 <gavinandresen> warren: I've already got a default-key set, and it works for other gpg operations.
 268 2013-10-15 06:31:03 <gmaxwell> [if you revoke your old key, it won't use it anymore (and anyone who gets the revoked key won't use it anymore either). Or you can set some gpg config option default-key I think. :P]
 269 2013-10-15 06:31:08 <warren> hm
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 271 2013-10-15 06:31:41 <warren> other good things for gpg.conf:
 272 2013-10-15 06:31:41 <warren> personal-digest-preferences SHA256
 273 2013-10-15 06:31:41 <warren> cert-digest-algo SHA256
 274 2013-10-15 06:31:41 <warren> default-preference-list SHA512 SHA384 SHA256 SHA224 AES256 AES192 AES CAST5 ZLIB BZIP2 ZIP Uncompressed
 275 2013-10-15 06:31:48 <warren> unless you enjoy SHA1
 276 2013-10-15 06:32:38 <gavinandresen> messing around with gpg options is so far down on my todo list, it won't ever get done.
 277 2013-10-15 06:33:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: not sure how git invokes gpg, but it may pass the commiter email to gpg, overriding the default
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 279 2013-10-15 06:33:22 <sipa> i'll make some modifications
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 310 2013-10-15 08:24:16 <thermoman> sipa: will investigate if this occures again
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 329 2013-10-15 09:38:50 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3090 CodeBug : should compare return value from memcmp with zero.
 330 2013-10-15 09:38:57 <wumpus> that looks like quite a sneaky bug
 331 2013-10-15 09:39:26 <wumpus> I would like to check if we're using that function anywhere, but just a grep won't do :P
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 334 2013-10-15 09:39:52 <sipa> wumpus: oh wow
 335 2013-10-15 09:40:12 <wumpus> let's comment it out and try to compile.. yep, first usage candidate on key.h line 292
 336 2013-10-15 09:40:15 <sipa> wumpus: i saw the bug and thought he was referring to the fact that we shouldn't use the implicit comparis
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 346 2013-10-15 09:41:25 <sipa> wumpus: is that all?
 347 2013-10-15 09:41:33 <sipa> because CExtKey isn't used yet
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 350 2013-10-15 09:42:06 <wumpus> will know that in a moment, commenting out that one too
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 354 2013-10-15 09:42:41 <sipa> i may have added that in the pre-bip32 pullreq
 355 2013-10-15 09:43:01 <wumpus> everything seems to compile fine now
 356 2013-10-15 09:43:36 <wumpus> so the functions are unused, at least by the core code
 357 2013-10-15 09:43:59 <sipa> and by tests?
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 360 2013-10-15 09:45:31 <wumpus> not by qt or the tests either
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 362 2013-10-15 09:47:23 <wumpus> hmm ouch, though compiling is not enough I suppose, it will use the default == operator if none is defined :-/
 363 2013-10-15 09:47:40 <wumpus> should make it private
 364 2013-10-15 09:47:41 <sipa> mark it privare
 365 2013-10-15 09:47:46 <sipa> !hi5 wumpus
 366 2013-10-15 09:47:47 <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
 367 2013-10-15 09:48:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'm pretty sure git commit's -S flag takes an argument for "which key?"
 368 2013-10-15 09:48:12 <warren> hmm, github can be configured to broadcast new pull request updates in IRC
 369 2013-10-15 09:48:15 <warren> would that be too annoying?
 370 2013-10-15 09:48:46 <sipa> i believe it did at some point
 371 2013-10-15 09:48:53 <sipa> and was moved to #bitcoin-commits or something
 372 2013-10-15 09:48:59 <warren> ooh
 373 2013-10-15 09:49:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Re: 3 hours ago)
 374 2013-10-15 09:49:08 <sipa> because people couldn't agree on which projects were interesting enough to be irc-logged
 375 2013-10-15 09:49:22 <sipa> so all were added, and that became too spammy :)
 376 2013-10-15 09:49:46 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 377 2013-10-15 09:49:48 <warren> perfect is enemy of good, and so bad.
 378 2013-10-15 09:49:53 <warren> and so is bad.
 379 2013-10-15 09:50:16 <warren> err, certainly 'master' is interesting enough?
 380 2013-10-15 09:50:32 <wumpus> yes, I think so
 381 2013-10-15 09:50:42 <sipa> yes but the channel shouldn't be about just the reference client, blah blah
 382 2013-10-15 09:50:49 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 383 2013-10-15 09:50:54 <sipa> (was the reasoning)
 384 2013-10-15 09:50:56 <warren> call it like it is
 385 2013-10-15 09:51:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: well, from the perspective of freenode, it is
 386 2013-10-15 09:52:23 <sipa> anyway, no objection from me, but i'm certainly biased
 387 2013-10-15 09:52:28 <wumpus> #bitcoin-commits does show the commits now? (just joined it) or has it been abandoned too?
 388 2013-10-15 09:53:28 <wumpus> ok, everything still compiles with the functions made private 
 389 2013-10-15 09:53:31 <sipa> it was long ago, i'm sure things broke :)
 390 2013-10-15 09:53:36 <warren> see #litecoin-dev for an example
 391 2013-10-15 09:54:23 Application has joined
 392 2013-10-15 09:57:57 <wumpus> I'd still prefer it here and not in a seperate channel, but I can see how it would make some people complain that their project should be included too, and that would indeed get too spammy
 393 2013-10-15 09:59:01 Muis_ is now known as Muis
 394 2013-10-15 10:00:03 <warren> master commits are kind of rare
 395 2013-10-15 10:02:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They tend to happen I. Concentrated batches, too
 396 2013-10-15 10:02:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|in c*
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 407 2013-10-15 10:24:08 <wumpus> warren: agreed, the problem is getting people to agree to only show bitcoin/bitcoin master commits, and not the zillion other clients and frontends
 408 2013-10-15 10:25:38 <warren> wumpus: some of those other illion others have hteir own channel
 409 2013-10-15 10:25:48 <wumpus> yes :)
 410 2013-10-15 10:25:52 <wumpus> maybe it's not an issue anymore
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 422 2013-10-15 10:57:03 <Goonie> Can anyone tell me how to build bitcoin-qt from master on Ubuntu? "make" has stopped working for me. readme-qt.md is missing actual build instructions (despite the section name).
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 425 2013-10-15 10:59:55 <sipa> Goonie: ./autogen.sh && configure && make
 426 2013-10-15 11:00:14 <Goonie> sipa: thanks. I think this should be documented somewhere.
 427 2013-10-15 11:00:21 <sipa> Goonie: it definitely should
 428 2013-10-15 11:00:46 <sipa> (and i'm sure it will before release)
 429 2013-10-15 11:01:07 <Goonie> ./autogen.sh: line 1: autoreconf: command not found
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 431 2013-10-15 11:01:18 <Goonie> looks like the dependencies also needs some overhaul
 432 2013-10-15 11:01:20 <sipa> you'll need to install autotools
 433 2013-10-15 11:01:33 <sipa> yeah, the documentation isn't updated for the autotools changeover
 434 2013-10-15 11:03:38 <Goonie> the package to install for ubuntu is called "autoconf"
 435 2013-10-15 11:04:46 <Goonie> hmmm which package contains "configure"?
 436 2013-10-15 11:05:40 <wumpus> Goonie: autogen.sh creates it
 437 2013-10-15 11:06:27 <Goonie> thanks. so in sipas command line it needs to say ./configure
 438 2013-10-15 11:06:31 <wumpus> yes
 439 2013-10-15 11:07:56 <wumpus> this is the standard way of building 90% of open source software, so it's worth to remember it by heart
 440 2013-10-15 11:08:50 fanquake has left ()
 441 2013-10-15 11:10:04 <wumpus> readme-qt.md should probably go
 442 2013-10-15 11:10:30 <wumpus> the required packages can be integrated into the normal build instructions, and for the rest there's nothing different anymore for building the gui
 443 2013-10-15 11:11:00 <Goonie> well I build 99% of open source software with maven (-:
 444 2013-10-15 11:12:07 <Goonie> bitcoin is the second project I build using make. the first one was lpmud, back in the 80's.
 445 2013-10-15 11:13:54 <Goonie> anyway, I'd be happy to proofread and test new build instructions, if there are any.
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 450 2013-10-15 11:31:06 <wumpus> maven? I don't think I've ever seen that used
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 455 2013-10-15 11:42:06 <TD> wumpus: it's java vs the c/c++ world
 456 2013-10-15 11:42:13 <TD> Goonie: autotools is the standard for native UNIX software
 457 2013-10-15 11:42:23 <TD> Goonie: basically it's always ./configure && make && sudo make install
 458 2013-10-15 11:42:36 <TD> Goonie: where configure has flags that can be used to control how the software is compiled/toggle features on or off
 459 2013-10-15 11:42:50 <wumpus> TD: back in the day I used java it was mostly 'ant', AFAIK
 460 2013-10-15 11:43:00 <TD> Goonie: if configure doesn't exist then it's generated by the autogen.sh script, which in turn needs autotools to be installed.
 461 2013-10-15 11:43:33 <TD> wumpus: yeah, back in my day it was too. the first version of bitcoinj used ant. there are actually a bunch of different build systems in use in the java world, fortunately they all share the same dependency repository format
 462 2013-10-15 11:44:04 <wumpus> yes, good to have some consistency
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 464 2013-10-15 11:44:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, why does autotools use a .sh like that?
 465 2013-10-15 11:45:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why not a .at or something like that, which doesn't look like something you can run on its own?
 466 2013-10-15 11:45:35 <wumpus> which sh? you mean the configure script?
 467 2013-10-15 11:46:02 <wumpus> it generates a shell file for portibility to systems that don't have autotools package installed but do have a shell and a c compiler
 468 2013-10-15 11:46:47 <wumpus> (if you package the configure script in your tarball...)
 469 2013-10-15 11:46:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo| Goonie: if configure doesn't exist then it's generated by the autogen.sh script, which in turn needs autotools to be installed.
 470 2013-10-15 11:46:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(quote)
 471 2013-10-15 11:47:05 <TD> autogen.sh is a script
 472 2013-10-15 11:47:06 <TD> so is configure
 473 2013-10-15 11:47:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|right...
 474 2013-10-15 11:47:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|nvm
 475 2013-10-15 11:48:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, I see -- autogen.sh is one line
 476 2013-10-15 11:48:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(erm, why bother putting it in a shell script, then?)
 477 2013-10-15 11:48:45 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 478 2013-10-15 11:49:22 <wumpus> why not? it makes things slightly easier for developers
 479 2013-10-15 11:50:25 <sipa> it's not just one line for every project
 480 2013-10-15 11:50:40 <wumpus> the exact contents of autogen.sh differ from project to project, but if there is a autogen.sh you know you can run it to generate the configure script
 481 2013-10-15 11:51:32 TD is now known as TD[away]
 482 2013-10-15 11:51:57 <wumpus> there used to be a time that projects usually didn't package an autogen.sh, so you'd need some time to figure out the right flags and automake/conf commands to generate it
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 490 2013-10-15 11:59:23 <sipa> wumpus: afaict, autogen.sh's output is supposed to be packaged
 491 2013-10-15 11:59:40 <sipa> so you don't run it in case you're using released source
 492 2013-10-15 11:59:46 <wumpus> sipa: sorry, I mean 'checked in'
 493 2013-10-15 11:59:53 <sipa> ah, right
 494 2013-10-15 12:00:02 <wumpus> for packaged source the configure script and other generated stuff should be included
 495 2013-10-15 12:00:08 <sipa> right
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 501 2013-10-15 12:12:29 <olalonde> the solution to a block is finding a hash that begins with X numbers of 0 right?
 502 2013-10-15 12:13:01 <olalonde> I'm trying to understand how difficulty plays a role in the solution to a block
 503 2013-10-15 12:14:09 TD has joined
 504 2013-10-15 12:14:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|olalonde: The difficulty defines how low the hash needs to be
 505 2013-10-15 12:16:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That is, how many zero bits are required at the start
 506 2013-10-15 12:16:33 <olalonde> right now the difficulty is 189,281,249… does that mean the solution requires 189,281,249 zero bits at the start?
 507 2013-10-15 12:16:46 <olalonde> i guess not lol
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 509 2013-10-15 12:17:19 <kinlo> the difficulty doesn't define how many zeroes at the start - it defines how low the value must be
 510 2013-10-15 12:18:00 <kinlo> a low value implies a certain number of zeroes at start, so the confusion is quickly made
 511 2013-10-15 12:19:11 <olalonde> ok so a valid solution requires X zeros and needs to be smaller then difficulty??
 512 2013-10-15 12:19:52 <kinlo> just requires to be smaller then the difficulty
 513 2013-10-15 12:20:06 <CodeShark> the number of leading zeros is a result of it being smaller than the target
 514 2013-10-15 12:20:42 <CodeShark> all bitcoin cares about is whether hash < target
 515 2013-10-15 12:20:51 <olalonde> ah
 516 2013-10-15 12:21:16 <olalonde> got it (i think)
 517 2013-10-15 12:21:36 <olalonde> so there could be 2 hashes with the same amount of leading zeroes but only one of them is valid?
 518 2013-10-15 12:23:49 <CodeShark> to use small numbers in decimal (the base is irrelevant), consider 0015 to be the target
 519 2013-10-15 12:24:01 <CodeShark> then 0000 - 0014 are valid
 520 2013-10-15 12:24:07 <CodeShark> 0015 - 9999 are invalifd
 521 2013-10-15 12:25:10 <CodeShark> in the case of bitcoin, the leading zeros are due to sha256 having a 256 bit output
 522 2013-10-15 12:25:28 <CodeShark> but the numbers are compared as integers
 523 2013-10-15 12:25:36 <CodeShark> with leading zeros ignored
 524 2013-10-15 12:25:43 <olalonde> so if target is 0010,  0011 would be invalid right
 525 2013-10-15 12:25:48 <CodeShark> right
 526 2013-10-15 12:26:03 <olalonde> but how come is the difficulty increasing?
 527 2013-10-15 12:26:10 <olalonde> doesn't it make it easier to find valid hashes?
 528 2013-10-15 12:26:25 <CodeShark> higher difficulty means smaller target
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 530 2013-10-15 12:27:01 <CodeShark> they are in a reciprocal relationship
 531 2013-10-15 12:27:01 <olalonde> what is the formula? target = 1/difficulty ?
 532 2013-10-15 12:27:11 <CodeShark> roughly, yes
 533 2013-10-15 12:27:19 <CodeShark> up to some constants
 534 2013-10-15 12:27:47 <olalonde> ok
 535 2013-10-15 12:27:54 <tcatm> Actually, difficulty is derived from the target...
 536 2013-10-15 12:28:29 <CodeShark> difficulty is a normalized measure to make comparisons sensible to us
 537 2013-10-15 12:28:37 <CodeShark> but bitcoin really cares about target and work
 538 2013-10-15 12:28:41 <olalonde> isn't difficulty based on how many hashes found in past 2 weeks?
 539 2013-10-15 12:29:06 <olalonde> ok
 540 2013-10-15 12:33:58 <tcatm> difficulty is based on the current target. the target is adjusted every 2016 blocks.
 541 2013-10-15 12:34:16 pigeons has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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 543 2013-10-15 12:34:38 <CodeShark> which parameter is the one that's adjusted is mathematically arbitrary
 544 2013-10-15 12:34:45 <CodeShark> it depends on which way you write the equations
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 546 2013-10-15 12:34:59 <CodeShark> you could just as easily define the rule either way
 547 2013-10-15 12:35:28 <CodeShark> point is *target* is what is used by bitcoin to validate a block - and *work* is what is used to select the best chain
 548 2013-10-15 12:35:54 <CodeShark> and difficulty is normalized work
 549 2013-10-15 12:36:29 <olalonde> ok
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 551 2013-10-15 12:38:01 <CodeShark> work is directly additive
 552 2013-10-15 12:38:13 <CodeShark> so you just compute the cumulative work for the chain
 553 2013-10-15 12:38:16 <olalonde> whats the exact formula to derive target from difficulty?
 554 2013-10-15 12:38:41 <olalonde> I'm not sure what you mean by "work". never really heard that term in that context before
 555 2013-10-15 12:39:04 <CodeShark> difficulty = maximum target / actual target
 556 2013-10-15 12:39:22 <CodeShark> maximum target = 0x00000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
 557 2013-10-15 12:39:33 <olalonde> thanks
 558 2013-10-15 12:39:46 <tcatm> maximum target = 0x00000000FFFF0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 559 2013-10-15 12:39:54 <CodeShark> oh, right
 560 2013-10-15 12:39:55 <CodeShark> :p
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 562 2013-10-15 12:39:59 <tcatm> it's stored in packed format
 563 2013-10-15 12:40:33 <wumpus> Goonie: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3092/files
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 566 2013-10-15 12:43:10 <CodeShark> work = 2^256 / (target + 1)
 567 2013-10-15 12:43:38 <CodeShark> integer division
 568 2013-10-15 12:44:02 <CodeShark> this is what bitcoin actually uses to compare different chains. difficulty is an approximate value that gets truncated
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 570 2013-10-15 12:44:45 <CodeShark> difficulty is only intended for human consumption - it plays no direct role in the bitcoin validation algorithms
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 573 2013-10-15 12:46:21 <CodeShark> in fact, the choice of 1 as the mimumum difficulty is purely arbitrary
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 579 2013-10-15 12:53:32 <Goonie> wumpus: thanks, I have a look at it now
 580 2013-10-15 12:53:46 <CodeShark> Wt = total work, Ti = target of block with height i (T0 is the target of the genesis block). then Wt ~ 2^256 [1/(t0 + 1) + 1/(t1 + 1) + 1/(t2 + 1) + … + 1/(tn + 1)]
 581 2013-10-15 12:54:18 _ingsoc has joined
 582 2013-10-15 12:54:48 <CodeShark> but in order to avoid floating point arithmetic and rounding issues, we say Wt = 2^256\(t0+1) + 2^256\(t1+1) + ...
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 607 2013-10-15 14:10:40 <Goonie> Hmmm, get this error when compiling bitcoin from master:
 608 2013-10-15 14:10:40 <Goonie>   CXXLD  bitcoind
 609 2013-10-15 14:10:40 <Goonie> leveldb/libleveldb.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
 610 2013-10-15 14:11:21 <Goonie> irc is crap
 611 2013-10-15 14:11:32 <wumpus> Goonie: remove that file and restart the build
 612 2013-10-15 14:11:36 <Goonie> does not want to let me paste the most important line
 613 2013-10-15 14:12:26 <wumpus> it's a known issue when doing a automake build for the first time and the source directory is not cleaned after the last make build
 614 2013-10-15 14:14:28 <sipa> may also make sense to mention in documentation :)
 615 2013-10-15 14:14:42 <Belxjander> are any bitcoin source projects that compile available with a straight makefile only build or directly available without autotools/cmake ?
 616 2013-10-15 14:15:13 <sipa> you could generate the makefile and package that :)
 617 2013-10-15 14:16:10 <Belxjander> sipa: to me "autotools" and "cmake" pre-suppose access to a Linux system or CygWin32 overlay for Windows...
 618 2013-10-15 14:16:19 <wumpus> Belxjander: eh yes, current releases of bitcoin stil use a makefile-only build
 619 2013-10-15 14:16:22 <Belxjander> I am not using a Linux/Windows/Mac OS choice...
 620 2013-10-15 14:16:32 <sipa> what are you using?
 621 2013-10-15 14:16:36 <wumpus> the autoconf stuff is only in master
 622 2013-10-15 14:16:46 <Belxjander> wumpus: bitcoin-qt is something I already grabbed and it refuses to build and link at the moment
 623 2013-10-15 14:17:01 <Belxjander> wumpus: I've just tried to "build" picocoin as well
 624 2013-10-15 14:17:13 <sipa> what platform are you on?
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 628 2013-10-15 14:17:30 <Belxjander> sipa: AmigaOS
 629 2013-10-15 14:17:32 <wumpus> depending on the platform, the build system may be least of your worries
 630 2013-10-15 14:17:48 <Belxjander> I have GCC and Make along with a couple of other basic tools but autotools and cmake are not present at all
 631 2013-10-15 14:17:58 <wumpus> for example on big-endian architectures the bitcoin client doesn't work at all at the moment
 632 2013-10-15 14:18:29 <Belxjander> how about a Chip that defaults BigEndian but allows for Big+Little Endian operations mixed?
 633 2013-10-15 14:18:49 <Belxjander> I can hard-read LE format into BE format for 16bit and 32bit memory reads
 634 2013-10-15 14:18:57 <wumpus> not supported
 635 2013-10-15 14:19:02 <Belxjander> thats an ISA feature
 636 2013-10-15 14:20:50 <Belxjander> right... so I will need to walk through step by step and impliment a packet handler that is LE "on the wire" but allows for BE in-memory?
 637 2013-10-15 14:21:06 <sipa> much more than that
 638 2013-10-15 14:21:26 <Belxjander> sipa: yeah I get that part...
 639 2013-10-15 14:21:32 <sipa> it's probably not actually hard to make the source BE-compatible
 640 2013-10-15 14:21:41 <sipa> and i'm sure patchrs would be welcome
 641 2013-10-15 14:21:52 <sipa> but finding all places where it is necessary may be tricky
 642 2013-10-15 14:21:59 <sipa> i know luke tried at some point
 643 2013-10-15 14:22:02 <Belxjander> Well before I patch anything I have to get it compiling and functionaly usable no?
 644 2013-10-15 14:22:12 Ry4an is now known as jjaaammiiee
 645 2013-10-15 14:22:22 <sipa> it won't be usable before you fix BE issues
 646 2013-10-15 14:22:36 <sipa> and as said, you can generate the makedile elsewhere
 647 2013-10-15 14:22:53 <sipa> though you may need to fix library locations e.a. manually
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 649 2013-10-15 14:23:28 <Belxjander> right... so generate a makefile on a Linux box and watch it go comepletely awol nuts when transferred to an AmigaOS system because tis non-posix as a starting point...
 650 2013-10-15 14:23:31 <Belxjander> right
 651 2013-10-15 14:23:44 <sipa> yup
 652 2013-10-15 14:23:48 <Belxjander> libraries are not fixed-path based on AmigaOS
 653 2013-10-15 14:23:49 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 654 2013-10-15 14:24:09 <sipa> well, that's what you choose when using an obscure OS :)
 655 2013-10-15 14:24:58 jjaaammiiee is now known as Ry4an
 656 2013-10-15 14:25:02 <Belxjander> and here I just wanted to be able to get an idea of what the essential basics are and work "up the stack"
 657 2013-10-15 14:29:22 <sipa> well, if you're just interested in getting to the point where you can compile things
 658 2013-10-15 14:29:37 <sipa> it shouldn't be too hard to construct a single-line gcc command
 659 2013-10-15 14:30:31 <sipa> g++ -o bitcoind -O2 main.cpp netbase.cpp util.cpp hash.cpp .... -lboost-something -lcrypto -l...
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 661 2013-10-15 14:31:10 <Belxjander> sipa: assuming that everything is "just there"?
 662 2013-10-15 14:31:21 <sipa> well you need all dependencies of course
 663 2013-10-15 14:31:39 <sipa> bdb, boost, c++ stl, openssl
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 665 2013-10-15 14:33:53 <Belxjander> so no chance in hell of finding a C only version of sources that work as a client?
 666 2013-10-15 14:34:06 <sipa> C only client? i doubt that
 667 2013-10-15 14:34:11 <Belxjander> it is pretty much C++ or Java and a headache of hidden code?
 668 2013-10-15 14:34:13 <sipa> someone started on that, but never got far afaik
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 670 2013-10-15 14:37:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What does boost actually do?
 671 2013-10-15 14:38:09 <Ry4an> makes C++ a language worth coding in... ;)
 672 2013-10-15 14:38:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ry4an: hmm?
 673 2013-10-15 14:39:48 <Ry4an> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_(C%2B%2B_libraries)
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 678 2013-10-15 14:47:06 <wumpus> it provides many useful algorithms, datastructures and platform-independent support functions, like a standard library on steroids
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 682 2013-10-15 14:49:06 <HM2> splendid
 683 2013-10-15 14:49:16 <Belxjander> well I need to sort out gettnig boost on AmigaOS then
 684 2013-10-15 14:49:22 <Belxjander> since it is not present that I know about
 685 2013-10-15 14:49:25 <HM2> I've been unlazy enough to recover my nick after about 15 weeks
 686 2013-10-15 14:50:06 <wumpus> if boost has been ported to amigaos at all
 687 2013-10-15 14:50:16 <t7> soon most of boost will be standard and we can bin it :3
 688 2013-10-15 14:50:25 <HM2> doubtful
 689 2013-10-15 14:50:37 <wumpus> maybe by 2050, at least in MSVC :)
 690 2013-10-15 14:51:01 <HM2> besides, standard implementations aren't always up to snuff and the standardisation process is always a compromise
 691 2013-10-15 14:51:02 <wumpus> c++50
 692 2013-10-15 14:51:25 <HM2> for instance, std::async uses a thread pool on MS C++ but GNU is unbound
 693 2013-10-15 14:52:35 <wumpus> and I doubt more specific libraries such as boost::spirit (parsing) will ever be part of the standard library
 694 2013-10-15 14:54:13 <t7> wumpus is it good or template hell?
 695 2013-10-15 14:54:27 <wumpus> it's good and template hell
 696 2013-10-15 14:55:05 <wumpus> bitcoin uses it for json parsing
 697 2013-10-15 14:55:38 <Belxjander> and multi-threading
 698 2013-10-15 14:56:06 <Belxjander> or was I misreading how it tried to build with the multi-threaded boost libraries?
 699 2013-10-15 14:56:35 <wumpus> I was talking about spirit specifically, but sure, we use boost for many things like network and threading as well
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 702 2013-10-15 14:58:03 <t7> why write a json parser, rather than use an existing one?
 703 2013-10-15 14:58:15 <t7> like the reference cpp one?
 704 2013-10-15 14:59:12 <HM2> it is an existing one, json Spirit
 705 2013-10-15 14:59:25 <HM2> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/20027/JSON-Spirit-A-C-JSON-Parser-Generator-Implemented
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 708 2013-10-15 15:01:08 <t7> aha
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 713 2013-10-15 15:05:56 <HM2> I'm counting 61 distinct boost headers used in Bitcoin git HEAD
 714 2013-10-15 15:06:27 <HM2> my sed skills may be sloppy though
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 716 2013-10-15 15:07:16 <HM2> http://pastebin.com/YAHcDKAQ
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 720 2013-10-15 15:07:42 <HM2> pretty mundane stuff
 721 2013-10-15 15:08:48 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 722 2013-10-15 15:10:12 <HM2> JSON Spirit actually uses the classic 'Spirit' api
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 724 2013-10-15 15:10:48 <HM2> Hopefully Spirit X3 will make it out of the sandbox sometime soon
 725 2013-10-15 15:11:08 <HM2> it makes writing parsers much more pleasant
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 727 2013-10-15 15:14:59 <wumpus> HM2: not sure why json spirit was chosen, probably a mysterious satoshi decision :)
 728 2013-10-15 15:15:34 <sipa> did satoshi even write the rpc stuff?
 729 2013-10-15 15:16:31 <sipa> apparently yes
 730 2013-10-15 15:17:01 <sipa> btw, json-spirit becomes a lot more usable if you use mvalue rathen than value
 731 2013-10-15 15:17:25 <sipa> which uses std::map for objects rather than std::vector<std::pair<...> >
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 734 2013-10-15 15:20:43 <HM2> sipa, i think the idea behind vector<pair> is you can dump it in to any associative container that you like
 735 2013-10-15 15:20:55 <HM2> or at least anyone that supports std::pair insertions, which is wise
 736 2013-10-15 15:21:08 <sipa> HM2: json-spirit supports any container you like
 737 2013-10-15 15:21:10 <sipa> for anything
 738 2013-10-15 15:21:16 <HM2> it does?
 739 2013-10-15 15:21:31 <sipa> there are just 2 predefined configurations, one that uses vectors for objects, and one that uses maps
 740 2013-10-15 15:21:44 <sipa> the former has the advantage that it preserves order
 741 2013-10-15 15:21:47 <wumpus> std<vector> is ordered
 742 2013-10-15 15:21:48 <wumpus> right
 743 2013-10-15 15:21:55 <sipa> the latter has to advantage that it is key-addressable
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 746 2013-10-15 15:22:25 <HM2> right
 747 2013-10-15 15:22:31 <sipa> but you can write your own configuration class, and modify the datatype for strings, for arrays and for objects
 748 2013-10-15 15:22:49 <sipa> there are also predefined configurations for using wstring instead of string
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 750 2013-10-15 15:23:12 <sipa> i guess the idea is that you can map directory into your application data classes
 751 2013-10-15 15:23:19 <sipa> instead of converting all the time
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 753 2013-10-15 15:24:08 <HM2> indeed
 754 2013-10-15 15:24:26 <HM2> I've been meaning to investigate using Boost Fusion to make JSON serialisation easier
 755 2013-10-15 15:24:30 <wumpus> that's the big advantage of template metaprogramming
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 757 2013-10-15 15:25:04 <HM2> Fusions adapted structs make iterating over structs and serialising them nice and lazy
 758 2013-10-15 15:25:15 <sipa> the disadvantage is huge compiler memory requirements, and unreadable compiler messages
 759 2013-10-15 15:25:58 <HM2> as far as I got though is writing some type inferring wrappers around Json spirit like load_value(T&, Object, key) where the type of T automatically does the right thing
 760 2013-10-15 15:26:02 <sipa> though c++14 should improve upon that considerably
 761 2013-10-15 15:27:15 <wumpus> c++14, heh, I haven't even grown accustomed to c++11 yet
 762 2013-10-15 15:27:38 <HM2> Bitcoin doesn't yet depend on c++11 does it?
 763 2013-10-15 15:27:41 <sipa> nope
 764 2013-10-15 15:27:45 <sipa> i want c++11 though :(
 765 2013-10-15 15:28:03 <wumpus> no, it doesn't, but it may in the near future as gitian environments are being updated
 766 2013-10-15 15:28:05 <HM2> I write exclusively in C++11 now
 767 2013-10-15 15:28:43 <HM2> At one point i was trying to ifdef in backward support for '98
 768 2013-10-15 15:28:45 <sipa> no need for hacks with swap or passing mutable references to return some complex datastructure efficiently
 769 2013-10-15 15:28:48 <HM2> that is a nightmare and not worth doing
 770 2013-10-15 15:30:03 <Goonie> Hmm bitcoin-qt still has this bug that the menu is sometimes not appearing.
 771 2013-10-15 15:30:16 <wumpus> Goonie: that's an ubuntu bug, not a bitcoin-qt one
 772 2013-10-15 15:30:35 <Goonie> wumpus: But I never saw it with any other app.
 773 2013-10-15 15:30:52 <Goonie> wumpus: Is there a ticket on launchpad?
 774 2013-10-15 15:30:54 <wumpus> I've never seen it with bitcoin-qt either
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 777 2013-10-15 15:31:51 <wumpus> it's rumored to happen on slower systems, but I don't think anyone ever reproduced it reliably
 778 2013-10-15 15:32:01 <wumpus> which ubuntu are you using?
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 782 2013-10-15 15:32:27 <wumpus> and how are you launching it?
 783 2013-10-15 15:32:42 <wumpus> from a terminal or directly through the menu?
 784 2013-10-15 15:33:01 <Goonie> started from the terminal, 0.8.5 beta (current master), ubuntu 13.04
 785 2013-10-15 15:33:25 <Goonie> but I had it with all previous ubuntu and bitcoin-qt versions
 786 2013-10-15 15:33:31 <wumpus> you haven't messed with the dbus environment settings?
 787 2013-10-15 15:33:54 <Goonie> no, I'm a "use as many defaults as possible" guy
 788 2013-10-15 15:34:29 <wumpus> it's really strange, I've never had it, not with 12.04, not with earlier versions, not with 13.04
 789 2013-10-15 15:35:06 <wumpus> but there is some very ugly hack where ubuntu plugs into qt to intercept the menu, and I guess that sometimes fails
 790 2013-10-15 15:35:15 <Goonie> how can I go to the network traffic chart? its not in the debug window.
 791 2013-10-15 15:35:24 <wumpus> it is in the debug window
 792 2013-10-15 15:35:33 <wumpus> third tab IIRC
 793 2013-10-15 15:36:26 <Goonie> damn, just noticed that I was running the old version
 794 2013-10-15 15:36:42 <Goonie> where does "make" build bitcoin-qt to?
 795 2013-10-15 15:36:46 <wumpus> src/qt
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 797 2013-10-15 15:37:25 <Goonie> I would not expect build targets to be located in src.
 798 2013-10-15 15:38:14 <Goonie> I guess this should be documented as well.
 799 2013-10-15 15:38:27 <wumpus> I found it surprising too
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 801 2013-10-15 15:39:25 <wumpus> but it's more consistent than before
 802 2013-10-15 15:39:45 <Goonie> I see the network traffic chart now.
 803 2013-10-15 15:39:45 <wumpus> before, bitcoind was built in src, and bitcoin-qt in the project root
 804 2013-10-15 15:39:54 <Goonie> When I zoom in or out, it clears its data.
 805 2013-10-15 15:40:01 <wumpus> yes, it does that
 806 2013-10-15 15:40:07 <Goonie> Would expect not to do.
 807 2013-10-15 15:40:18 <wumpus> feel free to fix that
 808 2013-10-15 15:40:24 <Goonie> ok
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 810 2013-10-15 15:44:29 <wumpus> seems to be because the sampling rate depends on the scaling
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 834 2013-10-15 16:26:26 <gmaxwell> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901#c108
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 836 2013-10-15 16:30:43 <TD> ye gods
 837 2013-10-15 16:30:50 <TD> only took them 6 years
 838 2013-10-15 16:31:49 <TD> sipa: you can return complicated data structures efficiently in c++98
 839 2013-10-15 16:32:11 <TD> sipa: just return them as normal and let the compiler do the nrv optimisation
 840 2013-10-15 16:32:34 <gmaxwell> TD: [random] Any idea why in bitcoinj the varint encode function calls a function called encodeBE?
 841 2013-10-15 16:33:02 <TD> sounds like a naming bug
 842 2013-10-15 16:33:05 <TD> let me take a look
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 844 2013-10-15 16:34:17 <TD> i guess the real question is, why are varints even objects at all :)
 845 2013-10-15 16:34:21 ericmuyser has joined
 846 2013-10-15 16:34:47 <TD> anyway, no, i don't know. if i wrote that code, it was years ago. if it was changed by a subsequent patch, which is quite possible, then i don't remember it
 847 2013-10-15 16:34:50 * TD fixes
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 849 2013-10-15 16:35:35 <sipa> TD: not across objects, afaik
 850 2013-10-15 16:36:22 <TD> how do you mean, across objects?
 851 2013-10-15 16:37:13 <TD> gmaxwell: how comes you were looking? some malleability thing?
 852 2013-10-15 16:39:06 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 853 2013-10-15 16:40:31 <gmaxwell> TD: someone was complaining that multibit's signmessage and bitcoinqt's were incompatible. It sounded like it might be a failure to use varint encoding of the length (as other implementations have made that mistake) but if that was the cause I must have been confused by the code, since it appears to be using varint encoding.
 854 2013-10-15 16:40:35 <TD> huh
 855 2013-10-15 16:40:36 <TD> odd
 856 2013-10-15 16:40:52 <gmaxwell> (some things don't varint encode the length and then fail for longer messages)
 857 2013-10-15 16:40:54 <TD> i mean, if it's incompatible, it must be some change jim made? there is a unit test that verifies messages signed by bicoin-qt
 858 2013-10-15 16:41:08 <TD> maybe something to do with ascii armouring
 859 2013-10-15 16:41:11 banghouse has joined
 860 2013-10-15 16:41:17 <TD> there was a bug where it didn't count UTF-8 sizes properly. i fixed that recently.
 861 2013-10-15 16:41:26 <TD> but that caused a crash. perhaps it was also possible for it to cause corruption
 862 2013-10-15 16:41:45 <gmaxwell> I didn't look at jim's code though, I kinda got lost in a twisty maze of java. Sorry, I was also only looking at this while talking to someone on IRC.
 863 2013-10-15 16:42:29 <TD> there was a schoolboy error where it used num of chars rather than num bytes. it's fixed in git master, but multibit hasn't shipped that fix yet
 864 2013-10-15 16:42:37 <TD> so i suspect some variant of that issue
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 868 2013-10-15 16:50:45 <jgarzik> random,
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 870 2013-10-15 16:51:19 <jgarzik> it is tempting to add a sequence of binary headers, testnet or mainnet, to the git repo, and then code unit tests using that dataset.
 871 2013-10-15 16:51:37 <jgarzik> this came in handy with picocoin, and it's just a handful of megabytes.
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 873 2013-10-15 16:52:35 <Goonie> wumpus: I think "make clean" should explicitely remove the old binary to clear out confusion. What do you think?
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 880 2013-10-15 16:54:27 <wumpus> Goonie: yes, which works if you run make clean *before* you upgrade to a version that uses autotools :)
 881 2013-10-15 16:55:03 <Goonie> wumpus: Not possible to explicitely add a command to the Makefile?
 882 2013-10-15 16:55:10 <wumpus> I don't know
 883 2013-10-15 16:55:23 <Goonie> I don't know anything about this strange build system, sorry.
 884 2013-10-15 16:55:34 <wumpus> in a normal makefile, sure, but with autotools I don't know
 885 2013-10-15 16:55:56 <Goonie> ok
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 887 2013-10-15 16:56:09 <Goonie> is payment requests already merged and testable?
 888 2013-10-15 16:56:22 <wumpus> yes
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 890 2013-10-15 16:57:01 <Goonie> I don't see it in the UI nor the console. Is there some doc about it?
 891 2013-10-15 16:59:00 <Goonie> Is it perhaps only in bitcoind?
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 901 2013-10-15 17:18:39 <michagogo> Goonie: Well, you wouldn't see it in the UI until you clicked on a link
 902 2013-10-15 17:19:54 <michagogo> Goonie: see https://bitcoincore.org/~gavin/createpaymentrequest.php
 903 2013-10-15 17:21:21 <michagogo> Goonie
 904 2013-10-15 17:21:36 <michagogo> Goonie: For example, if you felt like giving me a bitcent, you'd go to bitcoin:14FdeJBWiAjERjtj2oyyguLiDQHxLyut7H?request=https%3A%2F%2Fbitcoincore.org%2F%7Egavin%2Ff.php%3Fh%3Dbe54fa094f22b66f15550057681ac059&amount=0.01
 905 2013-10-15 17:22:17 <Goonie> Ah, so I cannot create requests with the UI?
 906 2013-10-15 17:22:29 <Goonie> (I would expect that in the receive tab)
 907 2013-10-15 17:22:53 <michagogo> No[e
 908 2013-10-15 17:22:55 <michagogo> Nope*
 909 2013-10-15 17:23:13 <michagogo> At the moment, support in the client is only for receiving and paying requests
 910 2013-10-15 17:23:26 <Goonie> How unfortunate.
 911 2013-10-15 17:24:15 <Goonie> Can I enter the URL you gave me somewhere into the client? My browser isn't associated with bitcoin-qt, so it just says "The address wasn't understood".
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 917 2013-10-15 17:39:33 <sipa> TD: across compilation units, i meant
 918 2013-10-15 17:40:18 <michagogo> Goonie: I think you can invoke the executable with the URL as an argument
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 955 2013-10-15 19:01:01 <helo> Goonie: if the client can make payment requests, then it also has to make them available via a web server, which needs a domain, and a ssl cert, etc :/
 956 2013-10-15 19:02:24 <helo> wow, that conversation was old -.-
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 958 2013-10-15 19:03:02 <jouke> helo: or transfer the complete paymentrequest via qr-code
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 961 2013-10-15 19:06:05 <helo> still needs (well, really should use) a domain and ssl cert
 962 2013-10-15 19:06:55 <helo> it could be pretty neat with something like a trezor
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 964 2013-10-15 19:08:20 <jouke> Why does it still need a domain? it doesn't need to send the tx back
 965 2013-10-15 19:08:53 <helo> doesn't it use x.509 to sign the request?
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 967 2013-10-15 19:09:26 <jouke> Ah right.
 968 2013-10-15 19:10:04 <helo> optionally, but going through the trouble to implement it without the security of signed requests seems like a waste of time
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 972 2013-10-15 19:19:17 <sipa> helo: heh?
 973 2013-10-15 19:19:23 <sipa> helo: oh, requests, yes
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 975 2013-10-15 19:19:48 <jouke> Can't you get a certificate without a domain?
 976 2013-10-15 19:20:03 <helo> hmm... yeah i think you can
 977 2013-10-15 19:23:13 <michagogo> http://www.instantssl.com/ssl-certificate-products/free-email-certificate.html
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1014 2013-10-15 20:53:10 <gavinandresen> "patches welcome" for Bitcoin-Qt support to create payment requests. Extra bonus points if you can figure out how to automatically interact with instantssl (or whoever) to generate a certificate for the user automagically.
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1016 2013-10-15 20:56:50 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: does the payment protocol not allow for sending a payment request by email? :/
1017 2013-10-15 20:56:58 <Luke-Jr> ie, without an interactive server
1018 2013-10-15 20:57:10 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: Yes, it does.
1019 2013-10-15 20:57:38 <Luke-Jr> not sure how SSL comes into that then?
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1021 2013-10-15 20:58:45 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: unsigned, insecure payment requests are really no better than a plain old bitcoin address, so I don't see the point of them
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1023 2013-10-15 20:59:32 <Luke-Jr> email would be PGP though
1024 2013-10-15 20:59:35 <sipa> i think they are infinitely better
1025 2013-10-15 20:59:36 <gavinandresen> Might as well just send a bitcoin: link in your email, rather than an unsigned payment request as attachment
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1027 2013-10-15 20:59:56 <gavinandresen> sipa: infinitely?  Wow!  That's a lot!
1028 2013-10-15 21:00:04 <sipa> you get negotiation, guarantee that the address is alive, messages, guaranteed receival
1029 2013-10-15 21:00:09 <sipa> (is receival a word?)
1030 2013-10-15 21:00:17 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Payment request signing is internal to the payment request. (SSL fetching doesn't provide non-repudiation)
1031 2013-10-15 21:00:17 <sipa> reception?
1032 2013-10-15 21:00:34 <gavinandresen> you don't get negotiation if there is no payment_url set, and Luke said there was no interactive server
1033 2013-10-15 21:00:53 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hm
1034 2013-10-15 21:00:56 <sipa> well if you pay a payment request that just arrives as a file, the result should be signed file
1035 2013-10-15 21:01:00 <gavinandresen> afk for a while, Foundation board meeting this morning....
1036 2013-10-15 21:01:16 BurtyBB has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1037 2013-10-15 21:01:21 <sipa> perhaps a file: dummy URL as payment_url
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1040 2013-10-15 21:03:17 <Luke-Jr> sipa: if that works, I'd say it's a security hole
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1042 2013-10-15 21:03:29 <sipa> how so?
1043 2013-10-15 21:03:32 <Luke-Jr> foreign data shouldn't be able to do anything with file: URIs
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1045 2013-10-15 21:04:38 <sipa> right, that's why i called it a dummy url
1046 2013-10-15 21:04:38 <sipa> the client should probably ask where to save the result or something
1047 2013-10-15 21:04:38 <sipa> imho, the intent should always be to return the payment via the same medium as you received the request
1048 2013-10-15 21:04:38 <sipa> if that's NFC, return via NFC
1049 2013-10-15 21:04:41 <sipa> if that's HTTPS, return via HTTPS
1050 2013-10-15 21:04:45 <sipa> if that's a file, return a file
1051 2013-10-15 21:05:00 <Luke-Jr> mailto: URI would make sense then?
1052 2013-10-15 21:05:10 <sipa> perhaps, yes
1053 2013-10-15 21:06:26 <sipa> and only when explicitly requested, broadcast via P2P
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1066 2013-10-15 21:24:08 <sipa> wow
1067 2013-10-15 21:24:22 <sipa> iterating all CBlockIndex entries in memory takes 20ms here
1068 2013-10-15 21:25:23 <sipa> terrible memory locality, i guess
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1088 2013-10-15 21:54:26 <HM2> sipa, it's a big structure
1089 2013-10-15 21:56:08 <HM2> sipa, is it basically a linked list?
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1091 2013-10-15 21:57:37 <HM2> hmmm
1092 2013-10-15 21:57:44 <HM2> i don't remember main.h being this tidy
1093 2013-10-15 21:58:09 <sipa> ;;blocks
1094 2013-10-15 21:58:09 <gribble> 263946
1095 2013-10-15 21:58:23 <HM2> oh you refactoring in to CChain
1096 2013-10-15 21:58:27 <HM2> refactored
1097 2013-10-15 21:58:40 <sipa> it's 170 cpu cycler per CBlockIndex entry
1098 2013-10-15 21:58:44 <sipa> *cycles
1099 2013-10-15 21:59:30 <HM2> to do what? just follow the pointers?
1100 2013-10-15 21:59:42 <sipa> yes
1101 2013-10-15 22:00:09 <HM2> hmm
1102 2013-10-15 22:00:43 <sipa> actually, every entry is around 128 bytes
1103 2013-10-15 22:00:55 <HM2> 2 cache lines then
1104 2013-10-15 22:01:04 <sipa> assuming the pointer and the data being read are in different 64-byte segments
1105 2013-10-15 22:01:10 <sipa> then you must pretty much read it all
1106 2013-10-15 22:01:30 <sipa> ;;calc 128*[blocks]/0.02*8
1107 2013-10-15 22:01:31 <gribble> 13514035200
1108 2013-10-15 22:01:38 <HM2> intrusive pointer linked list probably isn't the best idea then?
1109 2013-10-15 22:01:52 <sipa> that's still 13 Gbit/s RAM bandwidth
1110 2013-10-15 22:01:57 <sipa> assuming it can't stay in cache
1111 2013-10-15 22:02:21 <gmaxwell> thats really slow.
1112 2013-10-15 22:02:25 <HM2> I can't tell whether you're now happy with 20ms or not
1113 2013-10-15 22:02:30 <sipa> absolutely not
1114 2013-10-15 22:02:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: it's latency-constrained, not bandwidth constrained of course
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1116 2013-10-15 22:03:05 <gmaxwell> yes, I understand.
1117 2013-10-15 22:03:56 <sipa> i'm sure that if it was a contiguous memory block, it would be significantly faster
1118 2013-10-15 22:04:10 <gmaxwell> sipa: though if the stride is usually constant the prefetcher would work, but I guess its not.
1119 2013-10-15 22:04:30 <sipa> well it's a linked list of individually-allocated heap objects
1120 2013-10-15 22:04:37 <sipa> i don't think there is a constant stride :)
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1122 2013-10-15 22:06:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: might be interesting to try to reallocate it in once piece.
1123 2013-10-15 22:06:58 <sipa> HM2: see #3083
1124 2013-10-15 22:07:21 <HM2> CBlockIndex looks a bit like a heap, each parent node is lower (earlier) than it's children, but siblings aren't ordered with respect to one another
1125 2013-10-15 22:07:55 <HM2> how do you traverse up the tree? pprev = parent pointer right?
1126 2013-10-15 22:07:59 <sipa> yes
1127 2013-10-15 22:08:22 <sipa> the code currently relies strongly on the fact that CBlockIndex pointers are constant
1128 2013-10-15 22:08:33 <sipa> so CBlockIndex* is used as a block identifier in the code
1129 2013-10-15 22:08:58 <sipa> that can be changed of course, use an int as identifier, and assign sequentially-increasing indices to blocks
1130 2013-10-15 22:09:04 <sipa> and allocate them in a vector
1131 2013-10-15 22:09:27 <HM2> right, so basically you have CBlockIndex pointers everywhere, jump in to arbitrary nodes and can then down to the root / genesis
1132 2013-10-15 22:09:55 <sipa> well CChain now encapsulates a vector with CBlockIndex* pointers, indexed by height
1133 2013-10-15 22:10:18 <sipa> so for pretty much every operations that needed to iterate through it all, we can just jump to the right ones immediately
1134 2013-10-15 22:10:29 <HM2> indexed by height?
1135 2013-10-15 22:10:36 <sipa> that's a common operation
1136 2013-10-15 22:10:42 <sipa> looking up a block by height
1137 2013-10-15 22:10:50 <sipa> in the main chain
1138 2013-10-15 22:11:07 <HM2> hmm
1139 2013-10-15 22:11:17 <sipa> i was just surprised by how slow iterating it all really takes
1140 2013-10-15 22:11:21 <HM2> but aren't there multiple CBlockIndex's for each height?
1141 2013-10-15 22:11:28 <sipa> not within one chain
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1143 2013-10-15 22:11:50 <sipa> we have the entire block tree loaded of course, but a CChain just embodies one chain in it
1144 2013-10-15 22:12:02 <HM2> right
1145 2013-10-15 22:12:21 <HM2> with you now. so it's like vein going from one leaf down to the genesis
1146 2013-10-15 22:12:33 <sipa> yes
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1153 2013-10-15 22:22:03 <HM2> ah i see now
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1155 2013-10-15 22:24:39 <HM2> at one point i knew how CPartialMerkletree worked
1156 2013-10-15 22:24:45 <HM2> I need to paper it out again
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1169 2013-10-15 22:46:08 <Goonie> sipa: returning payment requests via nfc does not make sense. it would mean you need to touch multiple times. horrible ux.
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1171 2013-10-15 22:48:00 <sipa> Goonie: you mentioned that before; agree
1172 2013-10-15 22:48:23 <sipa> you can't really consider it bidirectional
1173 2013-10-15 22:48:32 <gmaxwell> Goonie: wait, NFC only works one way?  so all nfc payment devices have to have a working internet connection?
1174 2013-10-15 22:48:56 <sipa> no, it bidirectional, but you need the connection at distinct points in time
1175 2013-10-15 22:49:08 <gmaxwell> ugh. an extra point of failure. :(
1176 2013-10-15 22:49:27 <sipa> fetch payment request, ask user for confirmations, send payment
1177 2013-10-15 22:49:36 <gmaxwell> I see.
1178 2013-10-15 22:49:39 <gmaxwell> (now you have to have two working internet connections, and a working NFC channel)
1179 2013-10-15 22:50:05 <sipa> maybe by the time NFC gets used, it becomes better
1180 2013-10-15 22:50:14 <sipa> (as in: much easier to link)
1181 2013-10-15 22:51:28 <gmaxwell> kind of a bummer.
1182 2013-10-15 22:52:27 <Goonie> I think we should design payment requests in a way that with the first request a channel is built. and the medium of the channel is independent of the medium of the first request
1183 2013-10-15 22:53:04 <sipa> well you have that with URI's
1184 2013-10-15 22:53:30 <Goonie> Scanning QR codes is even more problematic, would you want to continue scanning qr codes of each others phone until the protocol is completed?
1185 2013-10-15 22:53:48 <sipa> it's just once in each direction
1186 2013-10-15 22:53:55 <sipa> (which may still be too much, but ok)
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1188 2013-10-15 22:54:09 <Goonie> I thought its three steps. request -> payment -> confirm
1189 2013-10-15 22:54:25 <sipa> oh right!
1190 2013-10-15 22:55:16 <sipa> QR is really only useful for the request
1191 2013-10-15 22:55:23 <Goonie> right
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1197 2013-10-15 23:11:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|IIRC, there was a solution for the NFC problem: make the NFC tap cause the devices to exchange Bluetooth MAC addresses (or whatever the equivalent is for bt)
1198 2013-10-15 23:11:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And then use that to complete the exchange
1199 2013-10-15 23:11:57 <HM2> why not just use bluetooth to begin with then?
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1201 2013-10-15 23:12:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That basically uses NFC to make the initial handshake
1202 2013-10-15 23:12:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|With bt, you'd need to search, pair, etc
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1204 2013-10-15 23:12:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Having an NFC exchange skips all that
1205 2013-10-15 23:13:37 <HM2> Heh, i wouldn't know. the only use i've ever found for NFC on my phone is scanning my passport
1206 2013-10-15 23:14:06 <HM2> the idea of 'tapping' my delicate glass backed Nexus 4 makes me whince
1207 2013-10-15 23:15:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Your passport?
1208 2013-10-15 23:16:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How does that work?
1209 2013-10-15 23:16:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does it have you take a photo of the MRZ?
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1211 2013-10-15 23:17:55 <sipa> mrz?
1212 2013-10-15 23:18:08 <sipa> nfc chips can read rfid
1213 2013-10-15 23:18:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: IIRC you need information from the MRZ to get past BAC
1214 2013-10-15 23:20:15 <sipa> wth is mrz or bac?
1215 2013-10-15 23:21:16 <sipa> i love how acronymed thos conversation is: nfc, rfid, iirc, wth, mrz, bac
1216 2013-10-15 23:21:48 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1217 2013-10-15 23:22:22 <HM2> michagogo|cloud, you type in a few details first
1218 2013-10-15 23:22:28 KillYourTV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1219 2013-10-15 23:22:30 <HM2> date of birth, passport number
1220 2013-10-15 23:22:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah, that'll be it then
1221 2013-10-15 23:23:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, that's the information that you need for BAC, which is normally pulled from the MRZ
1222 2013-10-15 23:23:36 <sipa> bac
1223 2013-10-15 23:23:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: BAC == Basic Access Control, where the information is protected by a key derived from details about the passport
1224 2013-10-15 23:23:46 <sipa> ok
1225 2013-10-15 23:24:15 <HM2> yeah it's presumably to stop casual scans
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1227 2013-10-15 23:24:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Exactly
1228 2013-10-15 23:24:32 <HM2> michagogo|cloud, is it just encrypted or is it actually an active auth process?
1229 2013-10-15 23:24:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You need to be able to read the passport details
1230 2013-10-15 23:24:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I *think* it's auth
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1232 2013-10-15 23:25:02 <HM2> it must be, it'd be weak ass if it was just encrypted
1233 2013-10-15 23:25:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Usually, epassport readers are the full-page type, where the passport is placed on a scanner glass, allowing the details to be read from the MRZ (machine-readable zone, the 2 lines of OCR-friendly characters at the bottom of the passport) and then used to read the chip
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1242 2013-10-15 23:42:41 <petertodd> c2t@z1
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1247 2013-10-15 23:46:54 <petertodd> lol, better change my bitcoin RPC password... good thing I have a firewall!
1248 2013-10-15 23:48:03 magicpig has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1249 2013-10-15 23:49:14 <gmaxwell> yours is that short?
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1251 2013-10-15 23:50:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: you have RPC allowed from *?
1252 2013-10-15 23:50:29 <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, I set it ages ago and didn't use the auto-create functionality back then
1253 2013-10-15 23:50:36 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: very likely not!
1254 2013-10-15 23:51:29 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: it's also not on the machine I'm logged into on IRC fortunately :P silly cut-n-paste error
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1256 2013-10-15 23:51:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think I went to a bunch of different random data sites (random.org, etc), took several strings from each, and concatenated them for my RPC username and password
1257 2013-10-15 23:51:52 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: it will helpfully suggest a good one for you. :)
1258 2013-10-15 23:52:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bitcoin-Qt will?
1259 2013-10-15 23:52:19 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: I used hunter2, but then all my BTC vanished :P
1260 2013-10-15 23:52:33 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: yeah, start it with no rpc password and try to use rpc
1261 2013-10-15 23:52:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, pretty sure I've never seen that
1262 2013-10-15 23:53:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Maybe I knew before the first time that I used -server that a password was needed?)
1263 2013-10-15 23:54:17 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: likely.
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