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 12 2013-10-16 00:14:44 <super3> can i get some feedback on my pull? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3085
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 34 2013-10-16 00:59:55 <warren> wumpus: seems -commits is dead
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 56 2013-10-16 01:41:41 <Luke-Jr> warren: has been for months
 57 2013-10-16 01:41:43 <Luke-Jr> CIA died
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 77 2013-10-16 02:20:09 <gmaxwell> warren: so I finally got a chance to look at the redhat openssl rpms.
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 79 2013-10-16 02:24:21 <warren> gmaxwell: oh?
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 89 2013-10-16 02:29:47 <pigeons> they were configured without ecdsa last i saw
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 92 2013-10-16 02:33:52 <gmaxwell> warren: they are not !@#!@ ABI compatible with our prior RPMS, but they're API compatible.
 93 2013-10-16 02:34:52 <warren> not surprised.
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 99 2013-10-16 02:41:44 <warren> gmaxwell: looking at various bitcoin rpms out there
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101 2013-10-16 02:42:47 <warren> gmaxwell: do you agree with the packages that auto-create a rpc password and put the blockchain in /var somewhere by default?  not sure how I feel about that.
102 2013-10-16 02:42:58 <gmaxwell> warren: I suspect what we should do is just do an rpm of 0.9 when it is released.
103 2013-10-16 02:43:14 <gmaxwell> warren: iieieer not so sure about that.
104 2013-10-16 02:43:37 <warren> gmaxwell: if we don't get involved now, someone else will push a package through the review process without our input
105 2013-10-16 02:45:00 <gmaxwell> so we have to have a race to the bottom? crappiest package wins?  The reason I was suggesting packaging 0.9 is because the build procedure is entirely changing for it.
106 2013-10-16 02:45:40 <warren> that's true, but packaging the old version is 1) already done and 2) straightforward.  we just need to oppose things we don't want in the later package.
107 2013-10-16 02:46:00 <warren> if we disagree with the auto rpc password and putting it in /var/somewhere then we need to speak up
108 2013-10-16 02:46:08 <gmaxwell> warren: where is a package that is doing that?
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110 2013-10-16 02:46:47 <warren> I haven't looked at it for a few months, looking at least version
111 2013-10-16 02:46:48 <warren> latest
112 2013-10-16 02:46:55 <warren> http://linux.ringingliberty.com/bitcoin/
113 2013-10-16 02:47:52 <warren> putting it into /var was for a custom selinux policy that it installs
114 2013-10-16 02:48:01 <warren> but that can be done in homedirs too
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116 2013-10-16 02:49:01 <warren> grrr.... btrfs is screwing up again
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119 2013-10-16 02:53:21 <warren> +    return fs::path("/var/lib/bitcoin");
120 2013-10-16 02:53:24 <gmaxwell> ...
121 2013-10-16 02:53:31 <warren> +    if (!pathPidFile.is_complete()) pathPidFile = boost::filesystem::path("/var/run") / pathPidFile;
122 2013-10-16 02:53:31 <gmaxwell> yea this rpm sucks
123 2013-10-16 02:53:45 <gmaxwell> it patches a bunch of crap that it didn't need to.
124 2013-10-16 02:53:50 <warren> gmaxwell: just saying we need to be involved in the review process to torpedo dumb things or we'll never be able to remove it
125 2013-10-16 02:53:54 <gmaxwell> -   -l boost_system$(BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX) \
126 2013-10-16 02:54:18 <gmaxwell> +   -l boost_system-mt$(BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX) \
127 2013-10-16 02:54:22 <warren> that includes getting sane default selinux policies into upstream selinux-policy
128 2013-10-16 02:54:29 <gmaxwell> ... wtf the enviroment variable is there for that exact reason.
129 2013-10-16 02:55:27 <warren> /usr/sbin/bitcoind       <--- does it really belong there?
130 2013-10-16 02:56:13 <gmaxwell> no, sbin is for system essential stuff.
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132 2013-10-16 02:57:28 <warren>  /var/lib/bitcoin(/.*)?          gen_context(system_u:object_r:bitcoin_var_lib_t,s0)
133 2013-10-16 02:57:36 <warren> do we want this at all, or at least as an option?
134 2013-10-16 02:57:59 <warren> we probably want selinux to enforce both in a system location and homedir
135 2013-10-16 02:58:55 <gmaxwell> oh crap
136 2013-10-16 02:59:21 <gmaxwell> this introduces a security vulnerability.
137 2013-10-16 02:59:23 <warren> it seems I was wrong about auto rpc password setting, that's ubuntu I thnk
138 2013-10-16 03:00:23 <gmaxwell> warren: are people actually using this package?
139 2013-10-16 03:00:53 <warren> gmaxwell: it's the top hit on google for fedora bitcoin
140 2013-10-16 03:00:56 <warren> =(
141 2013-10-16 03:01:14 <warren> gmaxwell: I made that patch for openssl because I didn't want to run anything written by this person.
142 2013-10-16 03:01:26 <warren> gmaxwell: he even got donations for this package =)
143 2013-10-16 03:02:49 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure how we need to go about announcing a security issue in a non-distro package. :(
144 2013-10-16 03:03:31 <warren> presumably contact the maintainer ... make him fix it, then announce?
145 2013-10-16 03:03:38 <gmaxwell> ugh.
146 2013-10-16 03:03:55 <gmaxwell> this also forces the creation of a DB_CONFIG with set_flags DB_LOG_AUTOREMOVE
147 2013-10-16 03:04:22 <warren> ooh
148 2013-10-16 03:04:34 <warren> it does set a password ...
149 2013-10-16 03:04:55 <gmaxwell> yes. Using rand().
150 2013-10-16 03:05:14 <gmaxwell> Thats the aformentioned security problem.
151 2013-10-16 03:05:45 <gmaxwell> fortunately it doesn't set a non-local listening settings too.. at least one saving grace.
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159 2013-10-16 03:24:25 <warren> gmaxwell: hmm, something is odd about these .rpm files
160 2013-10-16 03:24:41 <warren> gmaxwell: and there's one complaint on the forum about it failing its GPG check
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163 2013-10-16 03:26:43 <gmaxwell> warren: ::sigh::
164 2013-10-16 03:26:50 <gmaxwell> confirmed, rpcpassword generation is insecure.
165 2013-10-16 03:28:41 <gmaxwell> perl calls glibc rand/srand, and regardless of how its initilized (I saw some docs that say /dev/urandom, but I don't see that code), it only has 32 bits of state, and I was able to produce collisions.
166 2013-10-16 03:28:50 [Author] has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
167 2013-10-16 03:29:28 <gmaxwell> (In 410000 runs I got 409981 unique rpc passwords)
168 2013-10-16 03:30:24 <warren> that's mostly* good!
169 2013-10-16 03:31:38 <gmaxwell> no, it's not good at all.
170 2013-10-16 03:31:56 <gmaxwell> it means that with 2^32 attempts you are guarenteed to guess any rpc password.
171 2013-10-16 03:32:29 <gmaxwell> oh man, this guy is the jacob appelbaum imposter guy.
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174 2013-10-16 03:33:51 <warren> I'm bad at jokes.
175 2013-10-16 03:34:41 <gmaxwell> sorry, I'm bad at jokes too.
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182 2013-10-16 03:55:15 <gmaxwell> warren: you sort out what else you thought was weird about it?
183 2013-10-16 03:56:21 <warren> gmaxwell: rpm was unable to install the .src.rpm into a non-root user's homedir, had to use rpm2cpio
184 2013-10-16 04:03:14 <gmaxwell> warren: I think that use with the gpg failure just didn't have the gpg key installed.
185 2013-10-16 04:04:49 <gmaxwell> that same file verifies for me with the key on the website.. of course there appears to be absolutely no way to verify that key: its not signed by anything or used anywhere else on the internet.
186 2013-10-16 04:05:48 <warren> ok, I suppose if the source matches there's nothing malicious in the .src.rpm
187 2013-10-16 04:06:06 <warren> I can't explain why I can't install the .src.rpm
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189 2013-10-16 04:08:53 <gmaxwell> warren: what error do you get?
190 2013-10-16 04:09:36 <warren> error: unpacking of archive failed on file /home/test/rpmbuild/SPECS/bitcoin.spec: cpio: rename failed - No space left on device
191 2013-10-16 04:09:42 <warren> gmaxwell: which doesn't seem to be true
192 2013-10-16 04:09:51 <warren> I thought btrfs was screwing up, but nothing else is having problems
193 2013-10-16 04:10:12 <warren> I moved /home/test to ext4 and same problem
194 2013-10-16 04:10:28 <dizko> out of inodes?
195 2013-10-16 04:10:33 <warren> "rpm2cpio ...rpm |cpio -id" on the same directory works fine
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205 2013-10-16 04:26:40 <Tril> warren: /tmp out of space then?
206 2013-10-16 04:27:01 <warren> Tril: 3.8G available
207 2013-10-16 04:27:22 <Tril> I'd prefix the command with 'strace' then.
208 2013-10-16 04:28:19 <warren> I'm able to install other .src.rpm's in that non-root user.
209 2013-10-16 04:28:27 <warren> not going to waste my time on this
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215 2013-10-16 04:54:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Re: Fedora packages: Are we (you?) also involved in other distros' packages? I know BlueMatt has his ppa, but Ubuntu ships an old (and maybe badly patched? No idea) version
216 2013-10-16 04:57:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(At least they did as of a couple weeks ago)
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224 2013-10-16 05:22:47 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: I handle Gentoo
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228 2013-10-16 05:31:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's the one where packages are just the source, right?
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231 2013-10-16 05:36:10 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: more or less
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234 2013-10-16 05:49:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell sipa You may want to bump the scale on your graph in advance... Around 6-7 hours from now, [diffchange]
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354 2013-10-16 10:44:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;seen sipa
355 2013-10-16 10:44:41 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 11 hours, 20 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <sipa> ok
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360 2013-10-16 10:52:56 <mikey> Anybody know if 50btc has an irc chan?
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367 2013-10-16 11:09:27 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: saw it
368 2013-10-16 11:10:23 <sipa> my vps ran out of diskspace
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371 2013-10-16 11:23:11 <sipa> michagogo|cloud, gmaxwell: updated
372 2013-10-16 11:25:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: I saw. :) does your disk space usage grow with the hashrate?
373 2013-10-16 11:26:04 <sipa> yeah, i log every hash computer by the network
374 2013-10-16 11:26:20 <TD> haha
375 2013-10-16 11:26:25 <TD> well disk space is cheap
376 2013-10-16 11:26:28 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
377 2013-10-16 11:26:58 <gmaxwell> yea. whats 2.5 petawrites per second on a modern VPS? pfft. no biggie
378 2013-10-16 11:27:04 <sipa> ;;calc [nethash]*86400*1000000/2**30
379 2013-10-16 11:27:05 <gribble> 196703395.407
380 2013-10-16 11:27:10 <sipa> ;;calc [nethash]*86400*1000000/2**50
381 2013-10-16 11:27:11 <gribble> 187.59097615
382 2013-10-16 11:27:20 <sipa> ;;calc [nethash]*86400*1000000/2**50*32
383 2013-10-16 11:27:20 <gribble> 6002.91123679
384 2013-10-16 11:27:27 <sipa> ;;calc [nethash]*86400*1000000/2**60*32
385 2013-10-16 11:27:27 <gribble> 5.86221800468
386 2013-10-16 11:27:34 <sipa> 6 exabytes per day :(
387 2013-10-16 11:28:49 <TD> the graph i really like the most, though, is this one: http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
388 2013-10-16 11:29:00 <TD> it's also got the right general curve, albeit noisily
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399 2013-10-16 11:46:34 <c0rw1n> hay ok. then "if that curve goes on forevurr", how long do we have until btc has so many transactions per block, that most any block's fees would be over the coinbase amount?
400 2013-10-16 11:47:01 <sipa> never
401 2013-10-16 11:47:06 <sipa> (1MB block size limit)
402 2013-10-16 11:47:31 <c0rw1n> like that limit is hardcoded forever?
403 2013-10-16 11:47:41 <sipa> it can be changed with a hard fork
404 2013-10-16 11:48:06 <sipa> (of course, everything can be changed with a hard fork)
405 2013-10-16 11:48:16 <TD> what do you mean "over the coinbase amount"?
406 2013-10-16 11:48:22 <TD> you mean "fees would be larger than 25btc" ?
407 2013-10-16 11:48:25 <c0rw1n> no
408 2013-10-16 11:48:25 <sipa> he means the subsidy i guess
409 2013-10-16 11:48:56 <c0rw1n> yeah, counting the subsidy halvings
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411 2013-10-16 11:49:14 <TD> well, nobody really knows how fees and such will play out in future. we can make guesses and suggestions, but it's hard to know
412 2013-10-16 11:49:44 <c0rw1n> how many txes can bitcoin handle total then? at 1MB each 10 min
413 2013-10-16 11:50:16 <sipa> ~7 per second
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415 2013-10-16 11:51:32 <sipa> actually, my answer is wrong; the block size limit doesn't prevent the total fees per block from rising
416 2013-10-16 11:51:36 <sipa> it may actually increase them
417 2013-10-16 11:51:55 <sipa> but as TD says, it's hard to know how this plays out in the future
418 2013-10-16 11:52:44 <whiz> is there a graph that's showing current (averaged) tx/s available? i understand we are far away from 7tx/s?
419 2013-10-16 11:52:54 <TD> we're at about 0.5 tx/sec at the moment
420 2013-10-16 11:52:55 <TD> however
421 2013-10-16 11:53:00 <TD> many miners are not making 1mb blocks
422 2013-10-16 11:53:01 <c0rw1n> (my original question was, more accurately "when will the subsidy/block curve intersect the fees/block curve" )
423 2013-10-16 11:53:05 <TD> our actual "capacity" is much lower as a result.
424 2013-10-16 11:53:25 <c0rw1n> we're not maxing the capacity, is all
425 2013-10-16 11:53:29 <TD> generally miners have not demonstrated any real understanding of soft block size caps. a lot of them seem to just leave it at the default.
426 2013-10-16 11:53:51 <TD> we lack good tools to visualise and understand network capacity, unfortunately
427 2013-10-16 11:54:02 <TD> but yeah. at the moment we're not in any kind of danger zone
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462 2013-10-16 14:00:57 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, what is your XCode version?  I'm going to try and get an OSX test build going
463 2013-10-16 14:01:27 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, we have the latest OSX, whatever it is (Mountain Lion?  Undead Cheetah?   Superfluous Marmoset?)
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471 2013-10-16 14:28:52 <kinlo> jgarzik: mountain lion is the latest (well, mavericks is but it isn't released yet, altough it will be released this month...)
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492 2013-10-16 15:27:16 <jgarzik> kinlo, sure
493 2013-10-16 15:27:27 <jgarzik> kinlo, though the most valuable bit of info is XCode version
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505 2013-10-16 15:57:12 <maaku> jgarzik: xcode 4.6.2 works for me
506 2013-10-16 15:57:52 <maaku> unfortunately the release pathway has gavin's SDK path hard coded
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508 2013-10-16 15:57:59 <maaku> not sure if this is still true post-autotools
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512 2013-10-16 16:08:22 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, what is your XCode version?  I'm going to try and get an OSX test build going
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514 2013-10-16 16:09:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Mavericks isn't released yet, but it *is* already GM
515 2013-10-16 16:09:25 BCB is now known as aethero
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521 2013-10-16 16:22:34 <michagogo> Erm, question about bitrpc.py...
522 2013-10-16 16:23:38 <michagogo> It looks to me like "getwork" does the exact same thing as "gettransaction"
523 2013-10-16 16:24:47 <michagogo> I also don't see getrawtransaction there
524 2013-10-16 16:24:59 <michagogo> same with submitblock
525 2013-10-16 16:25:02 bbrian has joined
526 2013-10-16 16:25:07 <michagogo> And probably many others
527 2013-10-16 16:25:23 <michagogo> getblocktemplate, for example
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530 2013-10-16 16:40:01 <kinlo> jgarzik: I was under the impression that gavin still uses 10.6 and the xcode from that time-area, but I'm sure he'll answer soon
531 2013-10-16 16:40:14 <kinlo> (to create backwards compatible binaries)
532 2013-10-16 16:40:36 <michagogo> .6, not .5?
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535 2013-10-16 16:40:38 graingert has joined
536 2013-10-16 16:40:45 * michagogo has 10.5 in his head from somewhere
537 2013-10-16 16:40:46 <kinlo> .6
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539 2013-10-16 16:40:54 <kinlo> snow leopard
540 2013-10-16 16:41:13 * michagogo tries to think why he was thinking about leopard, then
541 2013-10-16 16:41:18 <michagogo> bbl
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570 2013-10-16 17:30:28 <olalonde> i have a noob asic question, not sure if i can ask here
571 2013-10-16 17:33:16 <Musk> olalonde #bitcoin-mining
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615 2013-10-16 18:55:32 <michagogo> Hmm, what exactly is sendcoinsentry? I've seen it mentioned in a couple places lately, but I haven't come across it before
616 2013-10-16 18:55:58 <michagogo> and google doesn't turn up much
617 2013-10-16 18:57:50 <Ry4an> brainstrain
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671 2013-10-16 20:41:08 <HM2> how irritating
672 2013-10-16 20:41:14 <HM2> boost intrusive lists are circular
673 2013-10-16 20:41:38 <HM2> so there's no equivalent to testing the next pointer for null without a reference to the list head object
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676 2013-10-16 20:45:11 <skinnkavaj> Open question: Can mastercoin concept be used for a decentralized bitcoin securities exchange? There is talk about that in the neobee thread, but i dont know...
677 2013-10-16 20:45:16 <skinnkavaj> gmaxwell: fire at me!
678 2013-10-16 20:45:45 digitalmagus2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
679 2013-10-16 20:46:04 <warren> skinnkavaj: if mastercoin were actually decentralized maybe
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681 2013-10-16 20:46:51 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: development machine or the machine I use to build backwards-compatible releases?
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684 2013-10-16 20:50:29 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: if you had asked that in #bitcoin you might have recieved an answer.
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693 2013-10-16 21:00:44 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, a good choice for testing payment request stuff on OSX :)
694 2013-10-16 21:00:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, whichever that may be
695 2013-10-16 21:01:43 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ? not following
696 2013-10-16 21:04:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, you asked " development machine or the machine I use to build backwards-compatible releases?"
697 2013-10-16 21:04:43 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, looking to test payment request stuff in the client, so I'm guessing the answer is "development machine"
698 2013-10-16 21:04:45 <gavinandresen> ah, ok, got it.
699 2013-10-16 21:05:06 <sipa> jgarzik: qualifying your question with a '?' would have helped, perhaps :)
700 2013-10-16 21:05:08 <gavinandresen> Yes, dev machine-- any Xcode should be fine.  I use macports clang++ to compile, because I like lldb
701 2013-10-16 21:05:35 <jgarzik> ok
702 2013-10-16 21:05:42 <jgarzik> any Xcode: check
703 2013-10-16 21:05:46 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: … so setup looks like: Install XCode. Run it, and tell it to install command-line tools.
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705 2013-10-16 21:06:27 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Then install macports 'port' command.  port install  <stuff>  -- including clang-3.3
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707 2013-10-16 21:07:03 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: my configure is:  CXXFLAGS='-g -O0 -Qunused-arguments -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER' CXX=/opt/local/bin/clang++-mp-3.3 ./configure --disable-hardening --disable-silent-rules
708 2013-10-16 21:08:14 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Setting up the backwards-compatible build environment is much harder. And last I checked, you need a 32-bit machine to make it all work properly.
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711 2013-10-16 21:13:39 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, thanks
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713 2013-10-16 21:14:15 <sipa> will jgarzik compile -qt? :o
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