1 2013-10-30 00:00:05 LordOfTime has joined
2 2013-10-30 00:00:42 <sipa> aupiff: --with-incompatible-bdb
3 2013-10-30 00:00:43 <weex> aupiff: maybe this will help http://www.unix.com/showthread.php?t=11378
4 2013-10-30 00:00:55 <sipa> aupiff: if you're on git head
5 2013-10-30 00:01:49 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
6 2013-10-30 00:02:23 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
7 2013-10-30 00:03:59 tg has joined
8 2013-10-30 00:04:04 Application has joined
9 2013-10-30 00:04:19 <aupiff> sipa: yep that worked. thanks. how does bitcoind get around that dependency, exactly?
10 2013-10-30 00:04:37 <sipa> hmm?
11 2013-10-30 00:04:46 <sipa> release binaries always use 4.8
12 2013-10-30 00:05:11 <sipa> asnusing a different bdb means your wallet files become incompatible
13 2013-10-30 00:05:27 JazzyJ199967 has joined
14 2013-10-30 00:05:35 <aupiff> sipa: ah, that makes sense.
15 2013-10-30 00:06:49 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
16 2013-10-30 00:08:57 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
17 2013-10-30 00:09:03 tucenaber has joined
18 2013-10-30 00:09:03 MKCoin has joined
19 2013-10-30 00:09:55 daktak has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
20 2013-10-30 00:10:00 dgolds has joined
21 2013-10-30 00:10:17 daktak has joined
22 2013-10-30 00:11:05 <warren> petertodd: omg, how did you send me 18k dust!?
23 2013-10-30 00:11:42 [\\\] has joined
24 2013-10-30 00:15:22 <phantomcircuit> 00:08:59
25 2013-10-30 00:15:25 <phantomcircuit> 00:06:56
26 2013-10-30 00:15:34 <phantomcircuit> interesting
27 2013-10-30 00:16:17 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
28 2013-10-30 00:17:19 super3 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
29 2013-10-30 00:17:53 bbbrian has joined
30 2013-10-30 00:19:07 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
31 2013-10-30 00:19:16 <warren> petertodd: I'm forced to abandon this wallet, it takes like 30 minutes to send a tx
32 2013-10-30 00:19:35 bbrian has joined
33 2013-10-30 00:19:43 jegz has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
34 2013-10-30 00:20:02 Blacksmid has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
35 2013-10-30 00:22:02 shesek has joined
36 2013-10-30 00:22:39 bbbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
37 2013-10-30 00:24:03 <phantomcircuit> warren, just pull the private keys that dont have spam associated with them out
38 2013-10-30 00:26:16 Neil has joined
39 2013-10-30 00:27:22 <warren> phantomcircuit: he sent all spam =)
40 2013-10-30 00:27:36 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
41 2013-10-30 00:27:50 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
42 2013-10-30 00:29:04 owowo has quit (Quit: °!° ~~ S4n1tY 1S Fut1l3 ~~ °!°)
43 2013-10-30 00:30:30 execut3 has joined
44 2013-10-30 00:31:45 MrDaneelOlivaw has quit (Quit: Page closed)
45 2013-10-30 00:31:52 asuk has joined
46 2013-10-30 00:33:46 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
47 2013-10-30 00:35:13 agnostic98 has joined
48 2013-10-30 00:36:09 roconnor_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
49 2013-10-30 00:36:22 jegz has joined
50 2013-10-30 00:37:13 asuk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
51 2013-10-30 00:37:18 JazzyJ199967 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
52 2013-10-30 00:40:04 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
53 2013-10-30 00:40:12 daktak has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
54 2013-10-30 00:43:21 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
55 2013-10-30 00:44:06 dgolds has joined
56 2013-10-30 00:46:02 shesek has joined
57 2013-10-30 00:49:39 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
58 2013-10-30 00:49:55 deepc0re has quit (Quit: deepc0re)
59 2013-10-30 00:50:41 <BlueMatt> hmm...does anyone remember if leveldb is impossibly slow in wine or if its on native windows too?
60 2013-10-30 00:50:48 * BlueMatt seems to recall there being some strange wine interaction here
61 2013-10-30 00:51:25 <BlueMatt> or...does someone wanna run the new BitcoindComparisonTool again bitcoin on native windows for me to test?
62 2013-10-30 00:53:30 one_zero has joined
63 2013-10-30 00:55:22 CircusPeanut has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
64 2013-10-30 00:57:42 Subo1977_ has joined
65 2013-10-30 00:58:17 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
66 2013-10-30 00:59:52 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
67 2013-10-30 01:00:25 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
68 2013-10-30 01:03:31 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
69 2013-10-30 01:11:37 canoon has joined
70 2013-10-30 01:11:50 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
71 2013-10-30 01:16:53 shesek has joined
72 2013-10-30 01:19:23 gingpark1 has joined
73 2013-10-30 01:21:15 agnostic98 has joined
74 2013-10-30 01:22:11 gingpark has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
75 2013-10-30 01:23:06 agricocb has joined
76 2013-10-30 01:23:08 roconnor has joined
77 2013-10-30 01:23:29 shesek has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
78 2013-10-30 01:24:05 pecket has quit (Quit: I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I think.)
79 2013-10-30 01:24:54 Eiii has joined
80 2013-10-30 01:25:07 jegz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
81 2013-10-30 01:25:49 gingpark1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
82 2013-10-30 01:25:59 Eiii has quit (!NA@unaffiliated/eiii|Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
83 2013-10-30 01:29:25 paracyst has joined
84 2013-10-30 01:37:43 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
85 2013-10-30 01:38:12 ralphtheninja has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
86 2013-10-30 01:39:10 BurtyB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
87 2013-10-30 01:39:41 BurtyB has joined
88 2013-10-30 01:40:31 BurtyB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
89 2013-10-30 01:40:53 dgolds_ has joined
90 2013-10-30 01:40:58 shesek has joined
91 2013-10-30 01:41:25 BurtyB has joined
92 2013-10-30 01:41:44 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
93 2013-10-30 01:43:16 niko has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
94 2013-10-30 01:44:11 CircusPeanut has joined
95 2013-10-30 01:44:50 dgolds_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
96 2013-10-30 01:44:54 AusBitBank has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
97 2013-10-30 01:45:27 niko has joined
98 2013-10-30 01:45:31 yubrew has joined
99 2013-10-30 01:47:06 shesek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
100 2013-10-30 01:47:51 shesek has joined
101 2013-10-30 01:48:48 mapppum has joined
102 2013-10-30 01:49:54 meLon has joined
103 2013-10-30 01:50:01 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
104 2013-10-30 01:51:22 gingpark has joined
105 2013-10-30 01:51:34 robocoin_ has joined
106 2013-10-30 01:52:00 <warren> well... my fault, found some kind of conflict between coin control and watchonlly
107 2013-10-30 01:52:23 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
108 2013-10-30 01:55:20 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
109 2013-10-30 01:55:43 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
110 2013-10-30 01:59:11 <Luke-Jr> http://news.yahoo.com/norwegian-man-buys-flat-forgotten-24-bitcoin-investment-174651722.html
111 2013-10-30 02:01:00 eoss has joined
112 2013-10-30 02:05:15 Application has joined
113 2013-10-30 02:07:08 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
114 2013-10-30 02:08:51 dgolds has joined
115 2013-10-30 02:10:25 shesek has joined
116 2013-10-30 02:10:47 roconnor has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
117 2013-10-30 02:13:15 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
118 2013-10-30 02:14:35 moleccc has joined
119 2013-10-30 02:16:32 AusBitBank has joined
120 2013-10-30 02:17:31 molec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
121 2013-10-30 02:18:58 execut3 has joined
122 2013-10-30 02:22:59 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
123 2013-10-30 02:28:41 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
124 2013-10-30 02:34:13 shesek has joined
125 2013-10-30 02:37:50 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
126 2013-10-30 02:38:57 testicon has quit (Quit: leaving)
127 2013-10-30 02:39:50 yubrew has joined
128 2013-10-30 02:43:59 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
129 2013-10-30 02:45:09 mE\Ta has joined
130 2013-10-30 02:48:04 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
131 2013-10-30 02:56:54 tunage has joined
132 2013-10-30 02:57:03 mbelshe has joined
133 2013-10-30 02:58:24 owowo has joined
134 2013-10-30 02:59:33 <tunage> I am looking to get into bitcoin dev, I have background in ASM. where is a good place to look for aspects to consider when selecting microcontrollers and application design techniques? anything like that around?
135 2013-10-30 03:00:43 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
136 2013-10-30 03:00:44 <maaku> tunage: maybe you'd be interested in the various hardware wallet projects?
137 2013-10-30 03:01:16 paracyst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
138 2013-10-30 03:01:25 Eiii has joined
139 2013-10-30 03:01:46 <Luke-Jr> dunno, asm isn't usually a good idea for much of anything anymore
140 2013-10-30 03:01:50 <tunage> maaku hardware wallet? is that acis?
141 2013-10-30 03:02:07 <Luke-Jr> I'd certainly be writing hardware wallet stuff in C
142 2013-10-30 03:02:18 <Luke-Jr> considering what's at stake
143 2013-10-30 03:02:23 <Luke-Jr> tunage: which asm do you know?
144 2013-10-30 03:02:55 <tunage> Luke-Jr I can spin it off the register faster that anyone I know. :) there is a lot more to it than that I am sure though.
145 2013-10-30 03:03:09 <tunage> Luke-Jr nasm and masm
146 2013-10-30 03:03:11 <Luke-Jr> tunage: spin what off the register?
147 2013-10-30 03:03:22 <Luke-Jr> tunage: I don't mean syntax, I mean architecture
148 2013-10-30 03:03:22 shesek has joined
149 2013-10-30 03:03:31 edcba has joined
150 2013-10-30 03:03:32 <Luke-Jr> MIPS or ARM?
151 2013-10-30 03:03:49 fas has joined
152 2013-10-30 03:04:04 <tunage> Luke-Jr I am used to the x86 but have tinkered with a couple of Pics too.
153 2013-10-30 03:04:50 * Luke-Jr can't see much use of x86 asm at this point
154 2013-10-30 03:04:56 <Luke-Jr> maybe sipa's libsecpthing
155 2013-10-30 03:05:04 <Luke-Jr> you could review and audit it..
156 2013-10-30 03:05:05 execut3 has joined
157 2013-10-30 03:05:24 <Luke-Jr> https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1
158 2013-10-30 03:05:47 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
159 2013-10-30 03:05:59 <tunage> Luke-Jr I am going to have to learn a whole new architecture, I am sure of this. This is why I am trying to get started in the right direction.
160 2013-10-30 03:06:31 <Luke-Jr> tunage: really, assembly has little use in most things today :/
161 2013-10-30 03:06:35 <tunage> I am maturing from calculators. :)
162 2013-10-30 03:06:57 <Luke-Jr> secp256k1 is the only thing I can think of that would benefit from assembly, and sipa already wrote it (but again, more eyes are needed to review it!)
163 2013-10-30 03:07:00 <tunage> I know c++ but asm is for speed.
164 2013-10-30 03:07:23 <Luke-Jr> tunage: usually code readability is far far more important than microoptimisation
165 2013-10-30 03:07:25 <tunage> once you understand exactly what you are working with. :/
166 2013-10-30 03:07:39 testicon has joined
167 2013-10-30 03:08:02 <Luke-Jr> sipa's secp256k1 seems to work well, but we're not using it yet due to lack of peer review
168 2013-10-30 03:08:14 <Luke-Jr> since it's such an important part of the protocol, it has to be 100% perfect
169 2013-10-30 03:08:34 <Luke-Jr> so I think if you can look over it and make sure it's correct, that would be very helpful
170 2013-10-30 03:09:13 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
171 2013-10-30 03:09:16 <tunage> all pure C I have worked with C.
172 2013-10-30 03:09:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa's secp256k1 is mainly asm ;)
173 2013-10-30 03:09:59 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
174 2013-10-30 03:10:01 dgolds has joined
175 2013-10-30 03:10:01 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
176 2013-10-30 03:10:10 <tunage> Luke-Jr I have worked with the IP stack some in C++, I have an idea of what to expect there.
177 2013-10-30 03:10:15 execut3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
178 2013-10-30 03:10:28 ahmedbodi has quit (Excess Flood)
179 2013-10-30 03:10:40 Eiii has joined
180 2013-10-30 03:10:47 <Luke-Jr> tunage: Bitcoin isn't like any other software before; unless you've worked with *Bitcoin*, you don't know what to expect until you do
181 2013-10-30 03:11:02 ahmedbodi has joined
182 2013-10-30 03:11:41 <tunage> Luke-Jr I know, I am getting ready to buckle down. The concept is very attractive.
183 2013-10-30 03:11:45 <Luke-Jr> I need to rephrase what I stated earlier
184 2013-10-30 03:11:56 <Luke-Jr> it's not 100% perfection that Bitcoin needs in this code
185 2013-10-30 03:12:07 <Luke-Jr> it's 100% identical results as the current OpenSSL behaviour
186 2013-10-30 03:12:12 <Luke-Jr> bug-for-bug
187 2013-10-30 03:12:18 <tunage> what architecture is secp256k1 optimize/ported for?
188 2013-10-30 03:12:22 <Apocalyptic> hum
189 2013-10-30 03:12:27 <Luke-Jr> tunage: mainly x86_64
190 2013-10-30 03:12:37 <Luke-Jr> there is also assembly for x86_32, but it isn't optimised right now
191 2013-10-30 03:13:19 <tunage> very interesting
192 2013-10-30 03:14:51 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
193 2013-10-30 03:16:49 Neskia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
194 2013-10-30 03:18:45 toffoo has joined
195 2013-10-30 03:19:12 XRayKat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
196 2013-10-30 03:19:34 XRayKat has joined
197 2013-10-30 03:23:33 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
198 2013-10-30 03:23:42 <tunage> Luke-Jr is there a known lag between algorithm calculation and transmission to the IP stack? or is all of the 'burn' in the math?
199 2013-10-30 03:24:50 <tunage> and is elliptic curve the fastest or just the most stable at this time?
200 2013-10-30 03:26:43 <maaku> tunage? elliptic curve the algorithm, not the implementation
201 2013-10-30 03:26:58 reneg has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
202 2013-10-30 03:27:01 jgarzik has joined
203 2013-10-30 03:27:32 i2pRelay has joined
204 2013-10-30 03:27:38 <tunage> maaku yes. it's the meat and potatoes
205 2013-10-30 03:27:48 Gabralkhan has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
206 2013-10-30 03:27:56 execut3 has joined
207 2013-10-30 03:29:06 <maaku> do you mean why was ecdsa chosen in 2009? because it has small keys and efficient validation
208 2013-10-30 03:29:23 <tunage> but microcontroller doesn't have a lot of room for bs, curious if software such as watchdogs are known process killers, etc.
209 2013-10-30 03:29:27 <maaku> but it's a moot point now - bitcoin uses ecdsa. you can't change that without breaking compatability
210 2013-10-30 03:30:03 <maaku> ok, so you need something beefier to do validation
211 2013-10-30 03:30:23 <tunage> maaku oh, that's right, or you would break the math... didn't think about that.
212 2013-10-30 03:33:24 <Luke-Jr> maaku: there is a faster EC curve than we use though
213 2013-10-30 03:33:57 <maaku> Luke-Jr: in 2009?
214 2013-10-30 03:34:00 yubrew has joined
215 2013-10-30 03:34:08 <Luke-Jr> maaku: AFAIK none of this stuff is created, just discovered ;)
216 2013-10-30 03:34:45 <maaku> heh, true
217 2013-10-30 03:35:33 <Luke-Jr> looks like it was discovered in 2007
218 2013-10-30 03:36:24 execut3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
219 2013-10-30 03:36:30 <tunage> so your chip frequency is literally the determaining factor for calculation that algorithm. You're basically bouncing the results of the ASM function into the IP stack? in a nutshell?
220 2013-10-30 03:37:00 execut3 has joined
221 2013-10-30 03:37:09 <Luke-Jr> â¦
222 2013-10-30 03:37:19 <Luke-Jr> tunage: IP isn't part of Bitcoin, beyond a mere transport
223 2013-10-30 03:37:50 <Luke-Jr> I'd say there's about zero chance of anyone accepting asm in the IP code
224 2013-10-30 03:38:28 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
225 2013-10-30 03:38:38 Subo1977 has joined
226 2013-10-30 03:39:23 <tunage> Luke-Jr layer 2/1 it comes in handy.
227 2013-10-30 03:39:53 <Luke-Jr> nothing in Bitcoin cares about that layer
228 2013-10-30 03:41:13 Subo1977_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
229 2013-10-30 03:41:32 <maaku> tunage: I suggest reading the bitcoin source tree, and seeing what interests you.
230 2013-10-30 03:42:59 <tunage> is it a protocol or a socket connection bitcoin uses to transport the results?
231 2013-10-30 03:45:50 <Luke-Jr> ⦠both
232 2013-10-30 03:46:08 <tunage> what kind of an API does bitcoin have?
233 2013-10-30 03:46:29 <Luke-Jr> none, bitcoin is a protocol, not software
234 2013-10-30 03:46:38 <Luke-Jr> bitcoin*d* has a JSON-RPC interface
235 2013-10-30 03:46:48 <Luke-Jr> other node software might have other interfaces
236 2013-10-30 03:49:38 <tunage> Luke-Jr I'm confused how the results authenticate and deliver to the block chain?
237 2013-10-30 03:49:57 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
238 2013-10-30 03:50:02 <Luke-Jr> tunage: results of what?
239 2013-10-30 03:50:11 <Luke-Jr> tunage: every node validates the results itself
240 2013-10-30 03:50:20 <Luke-Jr> the blockchain is abstract
241 2013-10-30 03:50:20 <tunage> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_Digital_Signature_Algorithm
242 2013-10-30 03:50:22 CircusPeanut has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
243 2013-10-30 03:50:55 <Luke-Jr> tunage: every node implementing the bitcoin protocol validates every ECDSA signature
244 2013-10-30 03:52:17 copumpkin has joined
245 2013-10-30 03:52:19 shesek has joined
246 2013-10-30 03:54:11 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
247 2013-10-30 03:55:22 malaimo has joined
248 2013-10-30 03:55:37 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
249 2013-10-30 03:55:56 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
250 2013-10-30 03:58:34 <tunage> bitcoin has qt? qt graphics?
251 2013-10-30 03:59:53 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
252 2013-10-30 04:00:19 patcon has joined
253 2013-10-30 04:02:16 <tunage> is the /qt /dir where bitcoin manages the block chain?
254 2013-10-30 04:04:40 nonick has joined
255 2013-10-30 04:04:53 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
256 2013-10-30 04:04:53 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
257 2013-10-30 04:07:33 darkee_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
258 2013-10-30 04:10:36 dgolds has joined
259 2013-10-30 04:12:26 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|Quit: Leaving...)
260 2013-10-30 04:14:53 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
261 2013-10-30 04:20:48 shesek has joined
262 2013-10-30 04:20:49 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
263 2013-10-30 04:21:26 dlidstrom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
264 2013-10-30 04:22:03 gingpark has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
265 2013-10-30 04:23:21 execut3 has joined
266 2013-10-30 04:24:57 paracyst has joined
267 2013-10-30 04:27:00 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
268 2013-10-30 04:28:21 yubrew has joined
269 2013-10-30 04:28:23 execut3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
270 2013-10-30 04:31:16 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
271 2013-10-30 04:31:35 johnsoft has joined
272 2013-10-30 04:31:57 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
273 2013-10-30 04:32:31 agnostic98 has joined
274 2013-10-30 04:33:27 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
275 2013-10-30 04:35:36 dlidstrom has joined
276 2013-10-30 04:35:47 Andrevan has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-rc1)
277 2013-10-30 04:37:29 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
278 2013-10-30 04:40:45 asuk has joined
279 2013-10-30 04:41:13 Guest39227 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
280 2013-10-30 04:45:29 Liquid has joined
281 2013-10-30 04:45:35 execut3 has joined
282 2013-10-30 04:45:52 Liquid is now known as Guest68163
283 2013-10-30 04:47:16 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
284 2013-10-30 04:47:27 TheSeven has joined
285 2013-10-30 04:48:42 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
286 2013-10-30 04:49:26 CryptoBuck has joined
287 2013-10-30 04:50:09 CryptoBuck has quit (Client Quit)
288 2013-10-30 04:50:49 CryptoBuck has joined
289 2013-10-30 04:53:35 execut3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
290 2013-10-30 04:54:09 execut3 has joined
291 2013-10-30 04:56:02 agnostic98 has joined
292 2013-10-30 04:57:59 DaQatz_ has left ()
293 2013-10-30 04:59:16 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
294 2013-10-30 05:08:37 handle_ has joined
295 2013-10-30 05:09:53 handle has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
296 2013-10-30 05:12:58 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
297 2013-10-30 05:13:20 bitspill has joined
298 2013-10-30 05:13:22 mE\Ta has quit (Quit: transwarp)
299 2013-10-30 05:13:57 Temper has joined
300 2013-10-30 05:14:01 xiangfu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
301 2013-10-30 05:15:44 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
302 2013-10-30 05:19:15 <Temper> what is the best way to programmically interface with the bitcoin network?
303 2013-10-30 05:21:32 Polyatomic has joined
304 2013-10-30 05:22:15 patcon has joined
305 2013-10-30 05:22:36 yubrew has joined
306 2013-10-30 05:26:07 execut3 has joined
307 2013-10-30 05:26:32 ThomasV has joined
308 2013-10-30 05:26:45 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
309 2013-10-30 05:28:36 wereHamster has joined
310 2013-10-30 05:30:49 <Temper> anyone here program c#
311 2013-10-30 05:31:11 <Temper> i am trying to make a program that can send or recieve bitcoin with multiple wallets.. any hints?
312 2013-10-30 05:32:57 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
313 2013-10-30 05:33:15 johnsoft has joined
314 2013-10-30 05:33:58 dgolds has joined
315 2013-10-30 05:34:35 <warren> sipa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320695.0 I removed Watch Only for now. Despite my adjustment to AvailableCoins() something else went haywire in coin selection when combined with Coin Control. I'll look at it again later.
316 2013-10-30 05:35:06 <warren> petertodd: you may want to upgrade your EC2 bitcoind to this new build. It still has disablewallet.
317 2013-10-30 05:36:46 <Temper> does anyone know: how often does the bitcoin network change code?
318 2013-10-30 05:37:04 <warren> Temper: that is not a simple question
319 2013-10-30 05:37:19 <Temper> hahah with bitcoin nothing EVER IS!
320 2013-10-30 05:37:20 <Temper> lol
321 2013-10-30 05:38:08 <Temper> let me try putting it this way. If i ran the bitcoind on my computer, never shutdown the program, updateded it etc, how long would it effectively run on the network?
322 2013-10-30 05:38:14 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
323 2013-10-30 05:38:29 <pigeons> we don't know
324 2013-10-30 05:38:38 <Temper> lol
325 2013-10-30 05:38:53 <Temper> ok.. lets say a week later they make a change to the bitcoind code
326 2013-10-30 05:38:54 Eiii has joined
327 2013-10-30 05:39:05 <Temper> does that mean my client is bumped off?
328 2013-10-30 05:39:51 <pigeons> depends on the kind of change, it is possible for a certain kind of change to cause everyone who updates to it to start following a different fork than your old node
329 2013-10-30 05:39:57 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
330 2013-10-30 05:40:25 <Temper> so the network basically diverges?
331 2013-10-30 05:40:50 <pigeons> these things are rare, and coordinated and planned and announced in advance if possible
332 2013-10-30 05:41:06 <Temper> ok.. so how many have there been in the last year?
333 2013-10-30 05:41:12 <Temper> [ballpark]
334 2013-10-30 05:41:20 <Temper> 1,2,10,100?
335 2013-10-30 05:41:37 <pigeons> well even with those, its not easy to tell if your old node would be affected or not
336 2013-10-30 05:41:46 <Temper> lol..
337 2013-10-30 05:42:06 <Temper> does bitcoind support apis with multiple wallets?
338 2013-10-30 05:42:44 wereHamster has quit (work!~tomc@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch|Remote host closed the connection)
339 2013-10-30 05:43:18 <Temper> maybe i should try this..
340 2013-10-30 05:43:25 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
341 2013-10-30 05:43:29 <Temper> I was looking at implementing a website with https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/
342 2013-10-30 05:43:56 <Temper> but then I read: Be warned: This software is at an early development stage. You still need to patch it to achieve many use cases and you must have a good understanding of the Bitcoin protocol. If you lose money you have only yourself to blame!
343 2013-10-30 05:44:12 <Temper> i understand they don't want liability
344 2013-10-30 05:44:33 <Temper> but is this saying that the project is not ready for production?
345 2013-10-30 05:44:46 <Temper> or is that just standard disclaimer stuff
346 2013-10-30 05:44:53 iddo has joined
347 2013-10-30 05:46:16 <Temper> i guess what i am saying is interfacing with the bitcoind the way to go?
348 2013-10-30 05:46:43 <Temper> is there a tip jar i am supposed to tip for answers :)
349 2013-10-30 05:52:32 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
350 2013-10-30 05:54:05 iddo has joined
351 2013-10-30 05:54:56 HaltingState has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
352 2013-10-30 05:56:28 asuk has joined
353 2013-10-30 05:57:13 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
354 2013-10-30 05:57:14 execut3 has joined
355 2013-10-30 06:03:15 deepc0re has joined
356 2013-10-30 06:03:20 deepc0re has quit (Client Quit)
357 2013-10-30 06:06:36 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
358 2013-10-30 06:10:15 MC1984 has joined
359 2013-10-30 06:12:43 execut3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
360 2013-10-30 06:13:35 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
361 2013-10-30 06:14:09 gingpark has joined
362 2013-10-30 06:16:34 yubrew has joined
363 2013-10-30 06:16:53 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
364 2013-10-30 06:17:44 roconnor has joined
365 2013-10-30 06:18:47 roconnor has quit (Client Quit)
366 2013-10-30 06:19:26 sustrik has joined
367 2013-10-30 06:21:10 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
368 2013-10-30 06:21:33 dlidstrom has left ()
369 2013-10-30 06:28:11 Eiii has quit (!NA@unaffiliated/eiii|)
370 2013-10-30 06:28:21 execut3 has joined
371 2013-10-30 06:29:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
372 2013-10-30 06:31:06 Eiii has joined
373 2013-10-30 06:31:27 HaltingState has joined
374 2013-10-30 06:32:44 reneg has joined
375 2013-10-30 06:34:15 <petertodd> warren: python-bitcoinlib is my favorite tool for mischief :)
376 2013-10-30 06:35:22 <warren> petertodd: i'm missing context
377 2013-10-30 06:35:34 <warren> petertodd: did you break bitcoin-ruby again?
378 2013-10-30 06:35:37 <petertodd> warren: dust
379 2013-10-30 06:35:43 <warren> oh
380 2013-10-30 06:35:48 <petertodd> warren: when did it break?
381 2013-10-30 06:35:55 <warren> didn't
382 2013-10-30 06:36:17 <petertodd> warren: I spent half an hour a week or so ago auditing it and found something like three or four forking bugs :/
383 2013-10-30 06:36:31 <warren> petertodd: the super slow wallet helped expose a serious problem when coin control and watchonly were combined, I don't know what's going on. had to remove watchonly for now.
384 2013-10-30 06:36:55 <warren> petertodd: please upgrade your EC2 node to OMG2
385 2013-10-30 06:37:04 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
386 2013-10-30 06:37:07 <petertodd> heh, you know, this dust business is probably a possible DoS attack against p2pool too...
387 2013-10-30 06:37:18 <warren> how so?
388 2013-10-30 06:37:38 <petertodd> my bitcoin node crashed when the dust-containning block got mined
389 2013-10-30 06:38:15 <warren> isn't that concerning for the entire network?
390 2013-10-30 06:38:30 <petertodd> yes
391 2013-10-30 06:38:57 <petertodd> though it's only something that happens if it's your wallet that is being updated, not in general
392 2013-10-30 06:39:23 Gabralkhan has joined
393 2013-10-30 06:43:06 Applicat_ has joined
394 2013-10-30 06:46:35 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
395 2013-10-30 06:48:14 Applicat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
396 2013-10-30 06:48:49 Application has joined
397 2013-10-30 06:49:23 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
398 2013-10-30 06:51:50 execut3 has joined
399 2013-10-30 06:55:52 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
400 2013-10-30 06:56:22 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
401 2013-10-30 06:56:47 execut3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
402 2013-10-30 07:00:13 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
403 2013-10-30 07:03:01 bitspill has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
404 2013-10-30 07:04:30 HaltingState has joined
405 2013-10-30 07:05:04 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
406 2013-10-30 07:05:16 agnostic98 has joined
407 2013-10-30 07:08:24 abrkn has joined
408 2013-10-30 07:10:52 yubrew has joined
409 2013-10-30 07:14:21 execut3 has joined
410 2013-10-30 07:15:26 bd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
411 2013-10-30 07:15:28 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
412 2013-10-30 07:15:53 abrkn has quit ()
413 2013-10-30 07:24:02 deepc0re has joined
414 2013-10-30 07:26:07 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
415 2013-10-30 07:26:26 Arnavion has joined
416 2013-10-30 07:28:01 deepc0re has quit (Client Quit)
417 2013-10-30 07:28:46 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
418 2013-10-30 07:35:43 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
419 2013-10-30 07:43:22 CryptoBuck has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
420 2013-10-30 07:44:33 CryptoBuck has joined
421 2013-10-30 07:45:41 pecket has joined
422 2013-10-30 07:48:30 bd_ has joined
423 2013-10-30 07:50:12 shesek has joined
424 2013-10-30 07:51:52 Arnavion has joined
425 2013-10-30 07:53:21 mbelshe has quit (Quit: mbelshe)
426 2013-10-30 08:05:03 yubrew has joined
427 2013-10-30 08:05:25 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
428 2013-10-30 08:05:52 AtashiCon has joined
429 2013-10-30 08:09:29 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
430 2013-10-30 08:13:08 dansmith_btc has joined
431 2013-10-30 08:13:08 dansmith_btc has quit (Changing host)
432 2013-10-30 08:13:08 dansmith_btc has joined
433 2013-10-30 08:14:47 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
434 2013-10-30 08:15:04 Bkil has joined
435 2013-10-30 08:17:57 Bkil has quit (Client Quit)
436 2013-10-30 08:18:28 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
437 2013-10-30 08:28:34 Eiii has quit ()
438 2013-10-30 08:29:36 toffoo has quit ()
439 2013-10-30 08:33:00 BlackPrapor has joined
440 2013-10-30 08:33:40 shesek has joined
441 2013-10-30 08:35:43 _ingsoc has joined
442 2013-10-30 08:36:32 agnostic98 has joined
443 2013-10-30 08:37:50 markus_ has joined
444 2013-10-30 08:42:57 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
445 2013-10-30 08:57:59 thermoman has quit (Quit: Bye)
446 2013-10-30 08:58:15 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
447 2013-10-30 08:59:12 yubrew has joined
448 2013-10-30 09:01:16 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
449 2013-10-30 09:01:59 melvster has joined
450 2013-10-30 09:03:06 thermoman has joined
451 2013-10-30 09:03:24 agnostic_ has joined
452 2013-10-30 09:03:24 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
453 2013-10-30 09:05:36 bmcgee has joined
454 2013-10-30 09:06:09 mapppum has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
455 2013-10-30 09:08:31 agnostic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
456 2013-10-30 09:12:29 t7 has joined
457 2013-10-30 09:16:34 <warren> petertodd: you know, litecoin's mininput patch would make me immune to your spam attack
458 2013-10-30 09:16:48 <petertodd> warren: yup
459 2013-10-30 09:17:25 <petertodd> mininput isn't a bad idea IMO, although people worry about the UTXO bloating of it, on the other hand, it discourages a lot of behavior too
460 2013-10-30 09:18:07 <warren> mininput + dust expiration would work quite nicely, especially with your MMR resurrection thing
461 2013-10-30 09:18:42 Zoop_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
462 2013-10-30 09:18:52 <petertodd> note though, it doesn't discourage dust de-anonymization attacks much, as the attacker wants you to spend the dust, so they'll send profitable to spend dust
463 2013-10-30 09:19:00 <petertodd> yup
464 2013-10-30 09:19:13 <melvster> can a previous block have a later timestamp than a next block?
465 2013-10-30 09:19:19 <petertodd> melvster: yes
466 2013-10-30 09:19:25 <melvster> O_o
467 2013-10-30 09:19:31 <stonecoldpat> +how?
468 2013-10-30 09:19:50 <petertodd> melvster: if that wasn't possible, then everyone woul dhave to have the exact same notion of time as everyone else, which is infeasible
469 2013-10-30 09:20:00 <melvster> but look at this
470 2013-10-30 09:20:02 <melvster> http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000004ad57e9f06642286946c23e5f5b031767dc567c37917437bc
471 2013-10-30 09:20:11 <melvster> 2013-10-26 18:33:07
472 2013-10-30 09:20:14 <melvster> previous block
473 2013-10-30 09:20:15 <petertodd> melvster: timestamps are only needed to scale PoW difficulty after all, they do *not* need to be very accurate at all
474 2013-10-30 09:20:23 <melvster> 2013-10-26 18:34:22
475 2013-10-30 09:20:30 <melvster> that's 85 seconds
476 2013-10-30 09:21:12 <petertodd> melvster: as I said, you don't need accurate timestamps, therefore it's good engineering to place no strict demands on them
477 2013-10-30 09:21:18 <melvster> so how much can they vary?
478 2013-10-30 09:21:28 <warren> sipa: when you're around I can explain the trouble I had with coin control + watchonly.
479 2013-10-30 09:21:33 <warren> They work fine independently.
480 2013-10-30 09:21:39 <melvster> in practice
481 2013-10-30 09:21:49 <melvster> can they be like hours apart?
482 2013-10-30 09:21:51 <petertodd> melvster: a block is considered valid if the timestamp is no more than two hours in the future, and no earlier than the median of the last 11 blocks. (IIRC)
483 2013-10-30 09:22:01 <melvster> wow thanks
484 2013-10-30 09:22:27 <melvster> so like a 4 hour range wow
485 2013-10-30 09:22:34 <petertodd> as say, if you placed tighter demands on it you'd get failures when people didn't set their clocks right, and that's very bad
486 2013-10-30 09:22:36 jtimon has joined
487 2013-10-30 09:22:39 <petertodd> melvster: roughly yeah
488 2013-10-30 09:22:56 <melvster> i better start indexing height
489 2013-10-30 09:23:08 <melvster> thanks
490 2013-10-30 09:23:11 <petertodd> np
491 2013-10-30 09:23:38 xiangfu has joined
492 2013-10-30 09:26:49 <warren> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320695.msg3436889#msg3436889 <--- something early in 0.9 re-broke this, and a later patch in master fixed it, although I don't know which one.
493 2013-10-30 09:27:45 <warren> and I have no mac so I can't test it easily
494 2013-10-30 09:29:46 <petertodd> I have no GUI so I can't test it easily :P
495 2013-10-30 09:30:40 <warren> I hope I'm not unduly annoying people with this branch.
496 2013-10-30 09:31:08 <warren> I already did a ton of work to test a hybrid of 0.8 and 0.9, so might as well push it out there to expose people to more bugs.
497 2013-10-30 09:31:18 <petertodd> pff, sounds like you've already found some interesting bugs that needed finding
498 2013-10-30 09:31:41 <warren> The watchonly + coincontrol issue is weird...
499 2013-10-30 09:32:05 <warren> https://github.com/litecoin-project/bitcoinomg/commits/bitcoin-omg-0.8
500 2013-10-30 09:32:18 agnostic98 has joined
501 2013-10-30 09:32:55 <warren> https://github.com/litecoin-project/bitcoinomg/commit/8ebd9b64a8974d2fbc47fffdef5dbd72d3860a37 Here's the simplest glue I could think of to filter out the watchonly outputs from coincontroldialog selection. The CC display showed an expected tx size and fee, everything looks correct when you click Send.
502 2013-10-30 09:33:13 <warren> then it crunches the CPU forever, and eventually claims the Transation is too large.
503 2013-10-30 09:33:34 <warren> a ~9990 byte transaction according to CC
504 2013-10-30 09:34:07 <warren> sending a transaction without CC selection similarly screws up
505 2013-10-30 09:34:49 <warren> a 2000 byte transaction wanted a fee that was several times bigger than what CC expected
506 2013-10-30 09:36:41 <petertodd> huh, wonder how many O(n^ugly) algorithms are at play there
507 2013-10-30 09:37:21 <warren> petertodd: it's more like O(ugly^n)
508 2013-10-30 09:38:00 <petertodd> lol
509 2013-10-30 09:38:15 ovidiusoft has joined
510 2013-10-30 09:38:28 <warren> ceteris paribus, CC works quite well, just slow as heck
511 2013-10-30 09:38:43 markus_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
512 2013-10-30 09:39:46 <warren> petertodd: your 18k spam made CC crunch for 30 minutes
513 2013-10-30 09:39:54 <petertodd> lol
514 2013-10-30 09:40:43 <petertodd> this is why for opentimestamps my coin selection code was "pick n inputs, lowest first" followed by "if that fails, pick highest first until done"
515 2013-10-30 09:41:00 <petertodd> not exactly optimal though...
516 2013-10-30 09:42:13 <warren> 1) make it work 2) <foo> 3) optimize it
517 2013-10-30 09:42:19 <warren> <foo> = mininput patch
518 2013-10-30 09:42:57 <petertodd> well, ideally mininput shouldn't be needed
519 2013-10-30 09:43:24 <warren> mininput was an expedient way to bring a network back from death
520 2013-10-30 09:44:09 <warren> petertodd: they were dealing with milllions of satoshi spam, not 18k
521 2013-10-30 09:45:02 <petertodd> wallet software should be able to deal with millions of utxo spam as well. The only limiting factor should be disk space on the wallet.
522 2013-10-30 09:46:13 <warren> yep ... just confirmed watchonly on its own works just fine
523 2013-10-30 09:46:33 <warren> CC, with CC dialog selection disabled fucks up with watchonly
524 2013-10-30 09:48:01 <warren> it messes up even with zero watchonly addresses
525 2013-10-30 09:50:47 <HaltingState> I worked out a 2 factor wallet proticol that allows 3rd party to hold wallet and prevents your bitcoin from being stolen either by the third party or by adversary, even if computer you are running on is compromised (rootkit/trojan) etc
526 2013-10-30 09:51:21 <HaltingState> i am writing library now for ECC that will work on arduino duo;anyone know of a C/C++ repo for that or should I just gut opensll?
527 2013-10-30 09:51:48 <warren> err, you probably want a simpler library
528 2013-10-30 09:52:00 <warren> libsecp256k1
529 2013-10-30 09:52:06 <HaltingState> the python ECC implementation is really nice, but its not C
530 2013-10-30 09:52:22 <warren> libsecp256k1 is C
531 2013-10-30 09:52:43 fanquake has joined
532 2013-10-30 09:53:02 <HaltingState> https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1
533 2013-10-30 09:53:06 <HaltingState> this one?
534 2013-10-30 09:53:11 <warren> yeah
535 2013-10-30 09:53:23 <warren> it seems to work, although we're too afraid to use it in production
536 2013-10-30 09:53:46 <HaltingState> ecc is tricky, expecially signatures, seem to leak keys
537 2013-10-30 09:54:14 <HaltingState> openssl is not perfect either, expecially for people with older versions on system
538 2013-10-30 09:54:57 <HaltingState> i will look at gutting openssl ecc and if its not too much work, might be worth doing
539 2013-10-30 09:55:24 <HaltingState> it removes the openssl dependency and its "safe"
540 2013-10-30 09:56:01 <warren> I've gutted openssl before
541 2013-10-30 09:56:40 <HaltingState> how was it?
542 2013-10-30 09:57:19 <HaltingState> are you worried about the openssl dependency at all and bugs (etc random number generator in older version etc, may leak keys when signing with ecc etc?)
543 2013-10-30 09:59:03 <warren> worried about abandonware
544 2013-10-30 09:59:16 <warren> libsecp256k1 will eventually be the in-bitcoin EC library
545 2013-10-30 10:00:56 feddy3 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
546 2013-10-30 10:01:40 <stonecoldpat> im guessing the only information needed for a new block is the merkle tree root, previous tx? and they just need to discover the nounce?
547 2013-10-30 10:02:30 mbelshe has joined
548 2013-10-30 10:02:51 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
549 2013-10-30 10:03:28 agnostic98 has joined
550 2013-10-30 10:04:26 <HaltingState> warren, canonical encodings ^_^ finally; really did not like that you could take signature and create another valid signature
551 2013-10-30 10:06:47 <HaltingState> one of the brilliant things about bitcoin is that the pubkeys are not published until first transaction for address, so even if ECC is broken, if you dont reuse addresses it does not matter
552 2013-10-30 10:07:27 askmike has joined
553 2013-10-30 10:07:51 <HaltingState> satoshi managed to find trade off between hashes and crypto signatures that resists complete failure of the crypto
554 2013-10-30 10:08:50 FabianB_ has joined
555 2013-10-30 10:09:57 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
556 2013-10-30 10:17:09 ralphtheninja has joined
557 2013-10-30 10:25:04 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
558 2013-10-30 10:25:25 TD[away] is now known as TD
559 2013-10-30 10:26:35 <melvster> stonecoldplat: you need timestamp and difficulty as well
560 2013-10-30 10:27:02 rdymac has joined
561 2013-10-30 10:27:36 <TD> good morning
562 2013-10-30 10:30:27 ThomasV has joined
563 2013-10-30 10:32:12 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
564 2013-10-30 10:32:45 askmike has joined
565 2013-10-30 10:37:01 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
566 2013-10-30 10:37:37 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
567 2013-10-30 10:38:54 askmike has joined
568 2013-10-30 10:39:21 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
569 2013-10-30 10:40:58 execut3 has joined
570 2013-10-30 10:42:28 <HaltingState> warren, does field implementation matter?
571 2013-10-30 10:42:34 Evilmax has quit ()
572 2013-10-30 10:42:43 <HaltingState> 10x26, vs 5x52 vs 5x64?
573 2013-10-30 10:44:03 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
574 2013-10-30 10:47:36 yubrew has joined
575 2013-10-30 10:49:04 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
576 2013-10-30 10:52:49 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
577 2013-10-30 10:54:30 OrP has joined
578 2013-10-30 11:01:40 xiangfu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
579 2013-10-30 11:03:28 _ingsoc has joined
580 2013-10-30 11:03:33 BlackPrapor has joined
581 2013-10-30 11:03:42 execut3 has joined
582 2013-10-30 11:08:50 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
583 2013-10-30 11:09:02 rdymac has joined
584 2013-10-30 11:14:07 <JyZyXEL> how are people able to put messages into transactions?
585 2013-10-30 11:15:06 <pigeons> JyZyXEL: do you have an example
586 2013-10-30 11:15:17 <JyZyXEL> yeah, the FBI address
587 2013-10-30 11:15:23 <JyZyXEL> its full of ads
588 2013-10-30 11:15:55 HaltingState has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
589 2013-10-30 11:16:04 <pigeons> i think you're thinking of the messages that the site blockchain.info uses, they aren't a part of the bitcoin protocol, just exist in the website's database
590 2013-10-30 11:16:11 <sipa> Luke-Jr: huh? libsecp256k1 only has assembly for x86_64
591 2013-10-30 11:16:23 <sipa> Luke-Jr: and it's only a very small part that is asm
592 2013-10-30 11:16:53 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
593 2013-10-30 11:17:16 <sipa> pigeons: indeed
594 2013-10-30 11:17:26 arioBarzan has joined
595 2013-10-30 11:18:40 HaltingState has joined
596 2013-10-30 11:19:09 <JyZyXEL> oh, i guess they let you leave a public message if you can prove you own the transaction
597 2013-10-30 11:20:15 owowo has joined
598 2013-10-30 11:30:02 <melvster> are we sure this formula is correct? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
599 2013-10-30 11:30:12 <melvster> in particular 2**(8*(0x1b - 3))
600 2013-10-30 11:30:22 <melvster> i keep being out by a factor of 8
601 2013-10-30 11:31:07 <melvster> oh no, im out by a factor of 2
602 2013-10-30 11:31:10 <melvster> grr
603 2013-10-30 11:31:23 one_zero has quit ()
604 2013-10-30 11:32:43 <melvster> the closest I can find using this calculation is
605 2013-10-30 11:32:44 <melvster> Computed hash OK
606 2013-10-30 11:32:44 <melvster> 000000000000000a25c350f265534b54eda3d09bfc9efd305193266a3fcf3498
607 2013-10-30 11:32:44 <melvster> Checking Target is Bigger than computed hash OK
608 2013-10-30 11:32:44 <melvster> 00000000000000190afc00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
609 2013-10-30 11:32:56 <melvster> always half the target at most
610 2013-10-30 11:34:26 <melvster> unless its related to *double* hashes
611 2013-10-30 11:34:32 <melvster> so maybe i should half the target
612 2013-10-30 11:34:45 <melvster> that must be it ...
613 2013-10-30 11:36:23 <melvster> ah ha! http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
614 2013-10-30 11:36:44 <melvster> yes that's half my value
615 2013-10-30 11:36:58 <sipa> melvster: hashes always refers to double-sha256
616 2013-10-30 11:37:05 <melvster> hmmm
617 2013-10-30 11:37:14 <sipa> bitcoin never uses individual sha256 operations inside the consensus mechanism
618 2013-10-30 11:37:40 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
619 2013-10-30 11:37:58 <melvster> sipa: the wiki page must be wrong then
620 2013-10-30 11:38:11 <melvster> because the current nbits is : 190afc85 [85fc0a19]
621 2013-10-30 11:38:30 <melvster> and 19 is 25 in decimal
622 2013-10-30 11:39:08 <melvster> 25 - 3 = 22
623 2013-10-30 11:39:13 <sipa> so 0xfc0a19 * 256^(0x19 - 0x1b)
624 2013-10-30 11:39:25 <sipa> eh
625 2013-10-30 11:39:28 <sipa> so 0xfc0a19 * 256^(0x19 - 3)
626 2013-10-30 11:40:05 <melvster> which is 16^44
627 2013-10-30 11:40:08 <melvster> ie 44 0's
628 2013-10-30 11:40:17 <sipa> yes
629 2013-10-30 11:40:25 <melvster> oh wait
630 2013-10-30 11:40:34 <melvster> ahhh
631 2013-10-30 11:40:38 <melvster> i see my mistake
632 2013-10-30 11:41:03 <melvster> wrong substr
633 2013-10-30 11:41:35 OrP has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
634 2013-10-30 11:41:45 <melvster> im getting used this this littlendian bigendian coverstions
635 2013-10-30 11:41:50 yubrew has joined
636 2013-10-30 11:41:57 <melvster> perfect
637 2013-10-30 11:41:58 <melvster> Computed hash OK
638 2013-10-30 11:41:58 <melvster> 000000000000000a25c350f265534b54eda3d09bfc9efd305193266a3fcf3498
639 2013-10-30 11:41:58 <melvster> Checking Target is Bigger than computed hash OK
640 2013-10-30 11:41:58 <melvster> 000000000000000afc8500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
641 2013-10-30 11:42:51 OrP has joined
642 2013-10-30 11:43:16 <arioBarzan> http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
643 2013-10-30 11:43:56 <melvster> got it thanks
644 2013-10-30 11:44:47 yubrew has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
645 2013-10-30 11:46:32 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
646 2013-10-30 11:49:15 daybyter has joined
647 2013-10-30 11:50:15 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
648 2013-10-30 11:53:13 djcoin_ has joined
649 2013-10-30 11:54:27 Polyatomic has quit (Quit: Polyatomic)
650 2013-10-30 11:55:13 hnz has joined
651 2013-10-30 11:55:35 <melvster> what exactly is the 'coinbase' in : http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/01c2981233a6ca5de0abfcb0895e5631900cc4377fb90930ac7abd4cdd350918
652 2013-10-30 11:56:04 <melvster> the transaction and coinbase wiki pages are a bit confusing
653 2013-10-30 11:56:05 Raziel has joined
654 2013-10-30 11:56:10 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
655 2013-10-30 11:56:23 <melvster> coinbase is what generates new coins? but can be arbitrary?
656 2013-10-30 12:01:22 <kinlo> coinbase used to be arbitrary data, to be used as a second nonce
657 2013-10-30 12:01:46 <melvster> oic
658 2013-10-30 12:01:52 <melvster> kinlo: and now?
659 2013-10-30 12:02:04 <melvster> why would you want a second nonce?
660 2013-10-30 12:02:04 <kinlo> but since version 2, there is a mandatory field containing the block height
661 2013-10-30 12:02:27 <kinlo> so it becomes impossible to have 2 transactions with the same transaction id
662 2013-10-30 12:03:14 <melvster> kinlo: why is it bad to have two tx with the same id?
663 2013-10-30 12:03:26 <kinlo> coz transactions are uniquely identified by their id
664 2013-10-30 12:03:54 <melvster> but i mean why is it bad to have the same unique tx in two blocks?
665 2013-10-30 12:04:07 agnostic98 has joined
666 2013-10-30 12:04:08 <melvster> eg i could pay someone 1 bit now and 1 tomorrow
667 2013-10-30 12:04:14 <melvster> does it cause a problem?
668 2013-10-30 12:05:35 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
669 2013-10-30 12:06:48 <kinlo> yes, the bitcoin client assumes they are unique
670 2013-10-30 12:07:11 <kinlo> I'm not entirely sure, but I believe one transaction becomes unspendeable, so you're basicly losing the coins in it
671 2013-10-30 12:07:42 Evilmax has joined
672 2013-10-30 12:07:44 execut3 has joined
673 2013-10-30 12:07:58 <kinlo> this is a corner case, which is basicly never foreseen and therefore you must look at "how does the reference implementation do it"
674 2013-10-30 12:08:20 <kinlo> the specs assume these tx id's are always unique
675 2013-10-30 12:09:16 bmcgee has joined
676 2013-10-30 12:09:58 <melvster> ah ok thx
677 2013-10-30 12:10:22 <melvster> kinlo: so today what is the coinbase? is it always the same or random?
678 2013-10-30 12:13:00 <kinlo> it's first the block height, then "data"
679 2013-10-30 12:13:08 <kinlo> the data is basicly the extranonce
680 2013-10-30 12:13:55 <kinlo> which is required to find the solution to the block - so it is not just "random", the pools make sure it contains different data for each miner so they don't do the same work
681 2013-10-30 12:14:18 <kinlo> and since there is a lot of room in extra nonce, pools do put some other data in it too
682 2013-10-30 12:14:35 <kinlo> sometimes a signature or a comment
683 2013-10-30 12:15:20 <kinlo> but the coinbase is also "abused" for merged mining, where an altcoin uses the same hashing power as bitcoin
684 2013-10-30 12:16:50 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
685 2013-10-30 12:17:05 <melvster> ahhhh
686 2013-10-30 12:17:06 <melvster> thx
687 2013-10-30 12:18:35 mappum has joined
688 2013-10-30 12:20:33 <sipa> melvster: the coinbase either refers to the first transaction in a block (the one that creates outputs without real inputs), or to the scriptSig inside that transaction
689 2013-10-30 12:20:33 Subo1977_ has joined
690 2013-10-30 12:20:39 Subo1977 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
691 2013-10-30 12:20:48 <melvster> thx
692 2013-10-30 12:21:03 <sipa> the data in the coinbase transaction's scriptSig is almost random, as it's not used to input things from anywhere
693 2013-10-30 12:21:17 <sipa> it's required to be between 2 and 100 bytes, and must start with a push of the block's height
694 2013-10-30 12:21:30 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
695 2013-10-30 12:21:41 <sipa> also, identical transactions refers to bitwise identical transactions; not just transactions with the same effect
696 2013-10-30 12:24:15 Nesetalis has joined
697 2013-10-30 12:25:34 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
698 2013-10-30 12:31:10 mbelshe has quit (Quit: mbelshe)
699 2013-10-30 12:33:24 toropov has joined
700 2013-10-30 12:33:24 toropov has quit (Excess Flood)
701 2013-10-30 12:35:19 andrew12 has quit (Quit: never coming back)
702 2013-10-30 12:36:07 yubrew has joined
703 2013-10-30 12:37:58 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
704 2013-10-30 12:40:21 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
705 2013-10-30 12:40:33 execut3 has joined
706 2013-10-30 12:40:35 mynameis has joined
707 2013-10-30 12:42:53 mynameis has quit (Client Quit)
708 2013-10-30 12:43:41 Musk has joined
709 2013-10-30 12:47:02 abueesp has joined
710 2013-10-30 12:47:22 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
711 2013-10-30 12:47:25 abueesp is now known as Guest22597
712 2013-10-30 12:57:05 radiator has joined
713 2013-10-30 12:57:15 <radiator> hi
714 2013-10-30 12:57:58 <radiator> guys - Im wondering, to get the current balance of a BTC address, its necessary to parse all the previous transactions to that addressâ¦. right???
715 2013-10-30 13:00:07 Guest22597 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
716 2013-10-30 13:00:59 <lianj> address balance == sum( all unspent outputs to that address )
717 2013-10-30 13:01:18 execut3 has left ()
718 2013-10-30 13:01:29 shesek has joined
719 2013-10-30 13:01:36 <shesek> radiator, its necessary to check all the transaction to that address, and all the transactions from that address (to check how much of the incoming transactions was already spent)
720 2013-10-30 13:04:20 agnostic98 has joined
721 2013-10-30 13:05:08 hsmiths2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
722 2013-10-30 13:05:34 Namworld has quit ()
723 2013-10-30 13:05:38 <sipa> depending on what data source
724 2013-10-30 13:05:58 <sipa> if you're starting from the UTXO set, it suffices to just count all coins assigned to that address
725 2013-10-30 13:06:07 hsmiths has joined
726 2013-10-30 13:06:20 agricocb has joined
727 2013-10-30 13:06:25 <sipa> if you're starting from the blockchain, you need to find all transactions crediting the address, and all transactions consuming one of the coins credited to it before
728 2013-10-30 13:07:55 Anduck has joined
729 2013-10-30 13:08:32 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
730 2013-10-30 13:13:50 <radiator> alright guys, thanks for answering that :D
731 2013-10-30 13:15:31 melvster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
732 2013-10-30 13:17:31 melvster has joined
733 2013-10-30 13:23:32 sivu has quit (Changing host)
734 2013-10-30 13:23:32 sivu has joined
735 2013-10-30 13:27:32 radiator has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
736 2013-10-30 13:27:54 radiator has joined
737 2013-10-30 13:27:58 radiator has quit (Client Quit)
738 2013-10-30 13:30:12 yubrew has joined
739 2013-10-30 13:30:15 arioBarzan has joined
740 2013-10-30 13:31:41 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
741 2013-10-30 13:33:56 agricocb has joined
742 2013-10-30 13:34:18 arioBarzan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
743 2013-10-30 13:34:45 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
744 2013-10-30 13:34:54 arioBarzan has joined
745 2013-10-30 13:35:59 roconnor has joined
746 2013-10-30 13:38:13 Thepok has joined
747 2013-10-30 13:38:57 zeddan81 has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
748 2013-10-30 13:39:30 zeddan81 has joined
749 2013-10-30 13:43:32 roconnor has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
750 2013-10-30 13:44:24 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
751 2013-10-30 13:44:52 Neozonz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
752 2013-10-30 13:44:54 Raziel has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
753 2013-10-30 13:45:15 Neozonz has joined
754 2013-10-30 13:45:16 Raziel has joined
755 2013-10-30 13:45:52 MiningBuddy has quit (AFK!~msn@unaffiliated/miningbuddy|Read error: Operation timed out)
756 2013-10-30 13:46:05 MiningBuddy has joined
757 2013-10-30 13:51:41 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
758 2013-10-30 13:54:50 patcon has joined
759 2013-10-30 13:55:45 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
760 2013-10-30 13:56:12 GMP has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
761 2013-10-30 13:58:09 yubrew has joined
762 2013-10-30 14:01:04 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
763 2013-10-30 14:04:09 agnostic98 has joined
764 2013-10-30 14:05:09 Zarutian has joined
765 2013-10-30 14:05:11 fanquake has left ()
766 2013-10-30 14:15:31 CircusPeanut has joined
767 2013-10-30 14:19:09 arioBarzan has joined
768 2013-10-30 14:21:48 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
769 2013-10-30 14:23:20 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
770 2013-10-30 14:24:31 iddo has joined
771 2013-10-30 14:25:11 MagicFab_ has joined
772 2013-10-30 14:26:17 datagutt has joined
773 2013-10-30 14:26:33 rdymac_ has joined
774 2013-10-30 14:27:02 graingert has joined
775 2013-10-30 14:27:19 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
776 2013-10-30 14:28:22 [\\\] has joined
777 2013-10-30 14:29:15 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
778 2013-10-30 14:30:58 graingert has joined
779 2013-10-30 14:31:12 keyboard has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
780 2013-10-30 14:33:14 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
781 2013-10-30 14:33:29 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
782 2013-10-30 14:34:41 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
783 2013-10-30 14:35:06 graingert has joined
784 2013-10-30 14:35:10 graingert has quit (Changing host)
785 2013-10-30 14:35:10 graingert has joined
786 2013-10-30 14:37:40 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
787 2013-10-30 14:38:31 xiangfu has joined
788 2013-10-30 14:46:43 <BlueMatt> TD: ping
789 2013-10-30 14:46:57 <TD> hi
790 2013-10-30 14:47:26 <Evilmax> ;;blocks
791 2013-10-30 14:47:28 <gribble> 266900
792 2013-10-30 14:47:38 <BlueMatt> TD: how many changes did you make to my nonetty branch before you squashed it+rebased it?
793 2013-10-30 14:47:51 * BlueMatt has made a few changes since while working through dnsseed stuff
794 2013-10-30 14:49:15 <TD> none, iirc
795 2013-10-30 14:49:41 <BlueMatt> ok, so if I rebase mine and then lose your commit no work should be lost?
796 2013-10-30 14:51:01 <TD> right. i only squashed+rebased for review purposes
797 2013-10-30 14:51:05 Zoop_ has joined
798 2013-10-30 14:56:48 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
799 2013-10-30 15:03:11 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
800 2013-10-30 15:03:38 patcon has joined
801 2013-10-30 15:04:15 agnostic98 has joined
802 2013-10-30 15:04:55 OrP has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
803 2013-10-30 15:05:42 rdymac_ is now known as rdymac
804 2013-10-30 15:06:40 patcon_ has joined
805 2013-10-30 15:07:17 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
806 2013-10-30 15:08:24 patcon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
807 2013-10-30 15:12:54 Eiii has joined
808 2013-10-30 15:12:54 Eiii has quit (Changing host)
809 2013-10-30 15:12:54 Eiii has joined
810 2013-10-30 15:16:12 <BlueMatt> TD: can you pick the top 2 commits from my master branch?
811 2013-10-30 15:22:24 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
812 2013-10-30 15:23:43 <TD> huh. it appears the JVM learned how to spot circular deadlocks at some point
813 2013-10-30 15:23:47 <TD> even without guava's help
814 2013-10-30 15:24:18 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
815 2013-10-30 15:24:32 agricocb has joined
816 2013-10-30 15:24:41 <TD> oh, i see. one of the locks is a synchronized statement. this is in the payment channels code. grr
817 2013-10-30 15:25:17 <TD> BlueMatt: yes. i will grab those soon
818 2013-10-30 15:25:59 IGHOR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
819 2013-10-30 15:29:37 Eiii has joined
820 2013-10-30 15:29:37 Eiii has quit (!~NA@c-24-20-16-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net|Changing host)
821 2013-10-30 15:29:37 Eiii has joined
822 2013-10-30 15:30:14 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
823 2013-10-30 15:32:13 <BlueMatt> TD: I believe most debug tools have been able to do that as long as the lock actually appears
824 2013-10-30 15:32:24 <BlueMatt> s/lock/deadlock/
825 2013-10-30 15:32:36 <TD> right, if you ask the jvm to dump all stacks, then it will do the calculation
826 2013-10-30 15:32:54 bitspill has joined
827 2013-10-30 15:32:57 <TD> do the methods on PaymentChannelClientConnection really need to be synchronized?
828 2013-10-30 15:33:56 Eiii has quit (!~NA@unaffiliated/eiii|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
829 2013-10-30 15:33:58 IGHOR has joined
830 2013-10-30 15:34:38 Eiii has joined
831 2013-10-30 15:34:38 Eiii has quit (Changing host)
832 2013-10-30 15:34:38 Eiii has joined
833 2013-10-30 15:35:54 IGHOR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
834 2013-10-30 15:36:06 <BlueMatt> TD: umm...well considering they're all literally one line and call into methods that immediately lock, probably not so much
835 2013-10-30 15:36:16 <BlueMatt> TD: but considering that I see no reason why that could deadlock?
836 2013-10-30 15:36:18 <TD> that's what i was thinking
837 2013-10-30 15:36:43 <TD> http://pastebin.com/F7rg08QS
838 2013-10-30 15:36:53 <TD> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=F7rg08QS
839 2013-10-30 15:36:53 <BlueMatt> git-wizards: is there a way to get rebase to ignore whitespace changes when merging and be smart instead of considering the whole damn thing a conflict?
840 2013-10-30 15:37:00 <BlueMatt> some kind of rebase/cherry-pick -b
841 2013-10-30 15:37:23 <TD> junit is pretty stack hungry
842 2013-10-30 15:37:26 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
843 2013-10-30 15:37:35 Curios_2 has joined
844 2013-10-30 15:37:37 <BlueMatt> very
845 2013-10-30 15:38:22 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
846 2013-10-30 15:38:53 Subo1977_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
847 2013-10-30 15:39:46 <TD> oops, this one is more informative
848 2013-10-30 15:39:46 <TD> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MZApQ24M
849 2013-10-30 15:40:17 <TD> i think the combination of explicit cycle detecting locks and synchronized statements is problematic. it can't properly describe the deadlock
850 2013-10-30 15:40:21 <TD> even though it knows there is one and why
851 2013-10-30 15:41:27 <TD> basically it inverts ProtobufParser and PaymentChannelClient.
852 2013-10-30 15:41:30 <BlueMatt> TD: I assume if you remove the synchronzied statements you would still get that deadlock, no?
853 2013-10-30 15:41:41 <TD> yeah sorry the *Connection thing is a red herring
854 2013-10-30 15:41:51 <TD> the actual problem is ProtobufParser.
855 2013-10-30 15:41:55 <BlueMatt> anyway, thats an easy fix, just send the message to the server outside the main lock and add another lock for that
856 2013-10-30 15:42:05 <BlueMatt> or split the read/write lock in the parserw
857 2013-10-30 15:42:08 <BlueMatt> which is probably better
858 2013-10-30 15:42:48 <TD> well i need to make the locking consistent in this part of the code and document the ordering. it should always use cycle detecting locks, never synchronized, and the ordering should always be Parser > Client
859 2013-10-30 15:42:50 <TD> i think
860 2013-10-30 15:43:49 <BlueMatt> Parser > Client for receive messages, Client > Parser for send
861 2013-10-30 15:43:53 hnz has joined
862 2013-10-30 15:43:58 <BlueMatt> need two locks then, but that makes sense anyway
863 2013-10-30 15:44:01 IGHOR has joined
864 2013-10-30 15:44:47 Subo1977 has joined
865 2013-10-30 15:45:55 IGHOR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
866 2013-10-30 15:46:31 <TD> no, we shouldn't ever have situations like that
867 2013-10-30 15:46:35 epickaxe has joined
868 2013-10-30 15:46:37 <TD> it's just far too confusing and this code is already confusing enough as it is
869 2013-10-30 15:47:11 <TD> AFAICT the only state that's being accessed is the writeTarget pointer
870 2013-10-30 15:47:13 <TD> (on send)
871 2013-10-30 15:47:47 <TD> so it can just be read atomically and used without locking
872 2013-10-30 15:48:40 <BlueMatt> well, ok in that case maybe its not needed, but the writetarget will need the same level of complexity
873 2013-10-30 15:49:41 Muis has quit (Quit: Connection reset by apple)
874 2013-10-30 15:50:33 <TD> how the writeTarget manages locking is up to the implementor, some of which won't be using the pre-built classes anyway.
875 2013-10-30 15:50:44 <BlueMatt> fair enough
876 2013-10-30 15:51:07 <TD> but really there should be no locks held on the sending path. otherwise we do end up with these inversions and it's just so hard to untangle
877 2013-10-30 15:51:25 mbelshe has joined
878 2013-10-30 15:51:34 <BlueMatt> you're gonna have to if you fill up the send buffer java manages for you, you're gonna end up needing your own additional one
879 2013-10-30 15:52:02 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
880 2013-10-30 15:52:15 <TD> and when would that happen?
881 2013-10-30 15:52:39 <melvster> Quite an interesting article: "Choosing the right elliptic curve" http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7781/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet/
882 2013-10-30 15:52:49 <BlueMatt> if you send a bunch of messages in a row?
883 2013-10-30 15:53:18 <TD> we shouldn't be adding any additional buffering on top of what the kernel provides, anyway.
884 2013-10-30 15:54:01 IGHOR has joined
885 2013-10-30 15:54:32 mbelshe has quit (Client Quit)
886 2013-10-30 15:54:51 <BlueMatt> then you still get the same problem because you lock until the buffer space frees up
887 2013-10-30 15:55:43 <TD> i.e. until the data is sent or the connection is dropped.
888 2013-10-30 15:56:18 <melvster> TD: I can confirm that the bitcoin wallet on ubunutu touch mobile phone uses bitcoinj and I've successfully sent coins to it :)
889 2013-10-30 15:56:21 <TD> anyway, we *need* to simplify this code no matter what. if that means dropping some features then so be it. the current level of complexity in this part isn't sustainable, as evidenced by the fact that it still has bugs.
890 2013-10-30 15:56:34 <TD> melvster: ubuntu touch mobile? ok, cool .... what's the name of the wallet?
891 2013-10-30 15:57:36 <melvster> TD: just do a search in apps for 'bitcoin' ... the wallet is called bitcoin-app, it's in the store https://bugs.launchpad.net/bitcoin-app still some work to do ...
892 2013-10-30 15:57:49 <TD> and i thought andreas picked a generic name with "bitcoin wallet"
893 2013-10-30 15:57:52 <TD> bitcoin app? ye gods
894 2013-10-30 15:58:04 <TD> ok "bitcoin touch", slightly better
895 2013-10-30 15:58:32 <melvster> the operating system is "ubuntu touch"
896 2013-10-30 15:58:35 <melvster> it's quite good actually
897 2013-10-30 15:59:16 <TD> huh. the UI is based on Qt, and it uses JNI to talk to bitcoinj?
898 2013-10-30 15:59:26 <TD> i wish i had time to finish off the auto-binding work
899 2013-10-30 15:59:27 <melvster> TD: yeah ... i didnt design it ...
900 2013-10-30 15:59:30 Bohren has joined
901 2013-10-30 16:00:01 <TD> well right now that's the most obvious way to use the library from native code
902 2013-10-30 16:00:08 <TD> (my solution - don't use native code :-)
903 2013-10-30 16:00:12 <TD> but there are better ways
904 2013-10-30 16:00:27 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
905 2013-10-30 16:00:31 <melvster> if you have any comments/tips feel free to add comment or you can mail sam ( sam@sambull.org )
906 2013-10-30 16:00:43 <TD> as long as he's on the announcement list (and ideally dev list) then i have no comments right now
907 2013-10-30 16:00:47 Bohren has joined
908 2013-10-30 16:01:11 <melvster> ok cool
909 2013-10-30 16:01:18 <TD> seems like he's not though
910 2013-10-30 16:01:43 <TD> nor is the guy he is working with ....
911 2013-10-30 16:01:45 <TD> :(
912 2013-10-30 16:02:00 <Belxjander> bitcoin MLs?
913 2013-10-30 16:02:15 <TD> if he's using bitcoinj, he needs to be on the bitcoinj mailing lists
914 2013-10-30 16:02:45 <melvster> ill let them know!
915 2013-10-30 16:04:07 agnostic98 has joined
916 2013-10-30 16:04:26 tucenaber has joined
917 2013-10-30 16:04:32 jgarzik has quit (Quit: Leaving)
918 2013-10-30 16:05:58 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
919 2013-10-30 16:06:28 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
920 2013-10-30 16:06:49 <BlueMatt> TD: Ill take a look after I finish rebasing nonetty
921 2013-10-30 16:08:14 <TD> i think it may be due to a change i introduced actually
922 2013-10-30 16:08:17 <TD> i'm adding a PAYMENT_ACK message
923 2013-10-30 16:08:29 bbrian has joined
924 2013-10-30 16:08:31 <TD> the stack traces don't make this obvious but it seems likely to be related.
925 2013-10-30 16:08:38 <TD> possibly this is a unit-test specific inversion
926 2013-10-30 16:08:41 <TD> i will investigate
927 2013-10-30 16:09:19 <BlueMatt> TD: stop breaking my code
928 2013-10-30 16:09:27 <TD> :)
929 2013-10-30 16:09:39 <TD> it needs to be free of inversions anyway
930 2013-10-30 16:10:51 <BlueMatt> Im surprised the inversion-checking locks didnt catch it though
931 2013-10-30 16:11:02 <TD> well not all the objects are using them
932 2013-10-30 16:11:05 <TD> so that would be why :)
933 2013-10-30 16:11:12 <BlueMatt> though those synchronized methods should be removed so that it forces the checking locks to do the work
934 2013-10-30 16:11:22 <TD> yeah. synchronized is fine on leaf objects.
935 2013-10-30 16:11:24 <TD> anyway, bbiab
936 2013-10-30 16:12:44 Subo1977 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
937 2013-10-30 16:13:04 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
938 2013-10-30 16:15:03 rdymac has joined
939 2013-10-30 16:16:03 Subo1977 has joined
940 2013-10-30 16:20:17 eoss has joined
941 2013-10-30 16:20:30 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
942 2013-10-30 16:20:58 ovidiusoft has joined
943 2013-10-30 16:21:31 nonick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
944 2013-10-30 16:21:53 askmike has joined
945 2013-10-30 16:22:36 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
946 2013-10-30 16:22:52 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
947 2013-10-30 16:23:03 rdymac has joined
948 2013-10-30 16:23:08 agnostic98 has joined
949 2013-10-30 16:27:47 xiangfu_ has joined
950 2013-10-30 16:30:39 xiangfu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
951 2013-10-30 16:31:38 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
952 2013-10-30 16:32:14 t7 has quit (Quit: home)
953 2013-10-30 16:33:33 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
954 2013-10-30 16:33:57 jakov has joined
955 2013-10-30 16:34:33 rdymac has joined
956 2013-10-30 16:34:33 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
957 2013-10-30 16:35:18 reneg has quit (Quit: reneg)
958 2013-10-30 16:37:27 <gmaxwell> wumpus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg3443288#msg3443288
959 2013-10-30 16:39:08 <wumpus> yes, I'm a bit late to the party :)
960 2013-10-30 16:39:37 <gmaxwell> Well, we have poor communications flow in Bitcoin land. :)
961 2013-10-30 16:40:23 <sipa> It shouldn't surprise anyone that a broadcast communication system is inefficient :p
962 2013-10-30 16:40:56 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
963 2013-10-30 16:41:03 rdymac has joined
964 2013-10-30 16:41:40 <Musk> wumpus late to the party then you should drink little and stay mostly sober after all we are the designated drivers right ? xD
965 2013-10-30 16:42:39 <Musk> Basicly what serve someone to have lots of BTC if after all they get lost on bad investments :3
966 2013-10-30 16:42:40 <wumpus> gmaxwell: but that would only work for merging multiple outputs of your own into a sendmany, indeed locally, I wonder how we could do multiplayer coinjoin
967 2013-10-30 16:42:52 daybyter has joined
968 2013-10-30 16:43:36 <gmaxwell> wumpus: well the idea there is that the interface is the same. E.g. you queue, and then in the background a multiplayer coinjoin could happen with no further _interface_ impact. (but obviously a lot of additional protocol stuff to find the other players)
969 2013-10-30 16:44:00 <gmaxwell> wumpus: I was responding to your " once we figure out how a user friendly interface for this could work"
970 2013-10-30 16:44:03 <gmaxwell> :)
971 2013-10-30 16:44:04 <wumpus> gmaxwell: ahh, right, yes agreed
972 2013-10-30 16:44:45 <gmaxwell> wumpus: the hard part about the actual protocol for it is setting up the introductions... e.g. finding the other players.
973 2013-10-30 16:44:48 <wumpus> 'queue transaction' with a timeout, and a way to show that a transaction is queued (instead of sent to the network) would be enough user interface
974 2013-10-30 16:45:15 <wumpus> yes, the coordination, I wonder how much interactivity would be needed
975 2013-10-30 16:45:31 <stonecoldpat> at the moment - is it possible to determine if a block is confirmed was by a pool? (at the protocol level without external information, im assuming no, but just to verify)
976 2013-10-30 16:45:34 <wumpus> would you coinjoin with random people, or with people you know
977 2013-10-30 16:45:45 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, and would be kinda useful immediately since it could merge local transactions even without the CJ stuff.
978 2013-10-30 16:46:13 <gmaxwell> wumpus: different tradeoffs there, with random people possibly allows more usage, but runs the risk that all the people are the same person.
979 2013-10-30 16:46:15 <wumpus> would someone open a "coinjoin server" and get other people to join
980 2013-10-30 16:46:37 <wumpus> right, so that choice has to be made by the user as well
981 2013-10-30 16:46:40 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
982 2013-10-30 16:47:14 <gmaxwell> wumpus: one way we could support it is make it just work by connecting to a CJ server (e.g. over tor). And there is a preference for what CJ server to use.
983 2013-10-30 16:47:30 <gmaxwell> And so you could pick what kind of CJ properties you get by picking the CJ server.
984 2013-10-30 16:47:37 <wumpus> sounds good
985 2013-10-30 16:47:55 <gmaxwell> This could be done without any server at all.. e.g. with the broadcast network, but would make the protocol a lot more complicated.
986 2013-10-30 16:48:17 <gmaxwell> vs having a server coordinate the activity is pretty straight forward.
987 2013-10-30 16:48:32 <wumpus> that would be even better but could be added later
988 2013-10-30 16:48:47 darsie has joined
989 2013-10-30 16:49:57 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
990 2013-10-30 16:50:37 patcon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
991 2013-10-30 16:51:04 patcon has joined
992 2013-10-30 16:51:18 <gmaxwell> yea, esp since I think the w/ the queue idea the interface wouldn't change.. it's still just queued transactions and you have some settings to control how queued transactions are processed.
993 2013-10-30 16:51:33 <wumpus> as servers cannot steal your coins, there isn't much of a trust threshold, and when connecting through TOR they can't log/leak your IP either
994 2013-10-30 16:51:41 <helo> gmaxwell: are there yet any cj server implementations?
995 2013-10-30 16:52:35 <gmaxwell> wumpus: the risks from the server are: dos attacks (e.g. they could fail to work), and that they could only connect you with sybils.
996 2013-10-30 16:53:14 <gmaxwell> wumpus: mostly I think of this as a nearly free way to increase privacy for everyone, not a hard core anonymity thing, so the fact that there is some sybil risk isn't an enormous deal.
997 2013-10-30 16:53:33 rdymac has joined
998 2013-10-30 16:54:04 <wumpus> yes, they could ignore your transaction, but such servers would fall out favor quickly
999 2013-10-30 16:55:31 <gmaxwell> a side effect: I've been thinking for a while that it would be good to have some mode where the software ran normally but always announced new transactions via tor in order to defeat people spying for txn... this would achieve that as a side effect. (you'd just ask the meeting point server to do the announce)
1000 2013-10-30 16:55:32 <wumpus> the sybil attack sounds a bit more far-fetched; putting everyone in a coinjoin with only sybils would give a lot of overhead for them
1001 2013-10-30 16:55:33 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1002 2013-10-30 16:55:46 ddddddd has joined
1003 2013-10-30 16:56:17 i2pRelay has joined
1004 2013-10-30 16:56:19 <gmaxwell> wumpus: well, I dunno that its _that_ much more far fetched than the people who connect to every possible node in order to collect IPs for transactions, and we have an existance proof there. :)
1005 2013-10-30 16:56:41 <gmaxwell> still: important to be frank about limitations, but the fact that limitations exist isn't a reason to not use something.
1006 2013-10-30 16:56:48 <wumpus> of course, they could also do it to only specific targets
1007 2013-10-30 16:57:16 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, "if someone tries to join an {interesting address}, pretend to be the other players"
1008 2013-10-30 16:57:42 <gmaxwell> though even still: it's never less private than not using it.
1009 2013-10-30 16:58:08 <wumpus> right, it's never worse; even if the server gains information that way, casual people checking the block chain don't
1010 2013-10-30 16:58:46 ddddddd has quit (Client Quit)
1011 2013-10-30 17:01:53 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
1012 2013-10-30 17:02:06 patcon has joined
1013 2013-10-30 17:02:33 Namworld has joined
1014 2013-10-30 17:04:03 rdymac has joined
1015 2013-10-30 17:04:26 Bkil has joined
1016 2013-10-30 17:05:51 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1017 2013-10-30 17:06:16 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1018 2013-10-30 17:06:43 patcon has joined
1019 2013-10-30 17:07:19 <gmaxwell> wumpus: also, if it uses the chaum blinding techinque (maaku has a partial implementation of a CJ server that does) then the server doesn't learn whos output is whos (unless it replaces all other parties with sybs)
1020 2013-10-30 17:08:17 Bkil has quit (Client Quit)
1021 2013-10-30 17:09:26 <darsie> Does the tx fee influence how a normal tx spreads in the bitcoin net?
1022 2013-10-30 17:09:53 TD is now known as TD[away]
1023 2013-10-30 17:10:54 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
1024 2013-10-30 17:11:03 patcon_ has joined
1025 2013-10-30 17:11:16 <gmaxwell> darsie: a little, in that if it's too low (relative to size and priority) most peers won't relay at all. In the future it may have more relay impact.
1026 2013-10-30 17:11:17 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1027 2013-10-30 17:12:19 <darsie> k
1028 2013-10-30 17:13:47 <darsie> I just talked to mtgox. tx from them sometimes take quite long until they show up on blockchain.info. They increased the fee from 0.0005 to 0.005 btc. I told them, they could come here for help.
1029 2013-10-30 17:14:33 rdymac has joined
1030 2013-10-30 17:15:12 <darsie> tx from my btcoin-qt are most always very quick with 0.0001 btc fee. I think, their problem is somewhere else.
1031 2013-10-30 17:16:02 <darsie> What's the tx format used when measuring tx size?
1032 2013-10-30 17:16:13 <lianj> raw/binary
1033 2013-10-30 17:16:40 <gmaxwell> darsie: a month or so ago they were paying people with immature coins.
1034 2013-10-30 17:16:42 <darsie> Would that be hex->binary?
1035 2013-10-30 17:16:52 <gmaxwell> I advised them of this. I'm not sure that they understood.
1036 2013-10-30 17:17:07 <gmaxwell> As in newly generated coins with <100 confirms.
1037 2013-10-30 17:17:26 <gmaxwell> darsie: can you check to see if this was the case in the transactions you're concerned about? (e.g. are they still doing it?)
1038 2013-10-30 17:17:52 <darsie> Well, the case we had today didn't have a fee, IIRC.
1039 2013-10-30 17:17:52 <gmaxwell> IOW when it shows up on BCI can you check to see if one of the inputs was freshly generated approx. 100 blocks ago?
1040 2013-10-30 17:18:06 <gmaxwell> yea, well not having a fee shouldn't be a problem if they meet the priority rules in any case.
1041 2013-10-30 17:18:26 <darsie> I'll see ...
1042 2013-10-30 17:19:37 <maaku> Eligius found a block 19 minutes ago, and they have a deal for tx inclusion..
1043 2013-10-30 17:20:15 <darsie> gmaxwell: I think its this tx: https://blockchain.info/tx/55b5d56b763f6eb27a234defe1f313c273ec244487e960237686906aee826c30
1044 2013-10-30 17:21:12 <darsie> I'm not sure how to best check the age/priority.
1045 2013-10-30 17:22:10 <darsie> gmaxwell: They have a page showing tx that didn't show up on the net for 2h: https://data.mtgox.com/api/0/bitcoin_tx.php
1046 2013-10-30 17:22:19 deepc0re has joined
1047 2013-10-30 17:22:41 <gmaxwell> darsie: yes, mtgox = fuckups.
1048 2013-10-30 17:22:48 <gmaxwell> also, bc.i = fuckups.
1049 2013-10-30 17:23:05 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1050 2013-10-30 17:23:08 <darsie> You mean, they can't get it right?
1051 2013-10-30 17:23:12 <BlueMatt> generally, bitcoin websites = fuckups
1052 2013-10-30 17:23:24 <gmaxwell> in that transaction the 1MAv44YHbeh9mt3tHUdxDqG7J8acjA9byh input is a p2pool coinbase output which only has 77 confirms.
1053 2013-10-30 17:23:38 <BlueMatt> they invest more time in getting their sites to work than they do on bitcoin minutia
1054 2013-10-30 17:23:39 askmike has joined
1055 2013-10-30 17:23:45 <gmaxwell> That transaction is invalid.
1056 2013-10-30 17:23:53 <BlueMatt> where bitcoin minutia is also incredibly important, obviously
1057 2013-10-30 17:24:16 <maaku> invalid for the next couple of hours at least
1058 2013-10-30 17:24:24 <maaku> you'll just have to wait a little longer for your coins
1059 2013-10-30 17:24:27 <gmaxwell> yea.
1060 2013-10-30 17:24:55 <darsie> When trying to rebroadcast mtgox tx, some are rejected by bitcoind.
1061 2013-10-30 17:25:31 <maaku> darsie: because some of the inputs are coinbase transactions < 100 confirms old
1062 2013-10-30 17:26:02 jakov has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
1063 2013-10-30 17:26:06 bbrian has joined
1064 2013-10-30 17:26:23 <darsie> That's someone elses tx. But I had troubled tx myself, which is very annoying when I have a buyer sitting next to me and I can't give him back the money cause the btc will eventually arrive.
1065 2013-10-30 17:27:03 <darsie> maaku: bitcoind will reject a tx just because the inputs are too young?
1066 2013-10-30 17:27:09 <maaku> darsie: yes
1067 2013-10-30 17:27:17 <maaku> just for coinbase inputs
1068 2013-10-30 17:27:20 <gmaxwell> darsie: it is a special rule for newly generated coins.
1069 2013-10-30 17:27:29 <maaku> because if there is a reorg, those inputs will not follow
1070 2013-10-30 17:27:29 <gmaxwell> It's a requirement of the bitcoin protocol.
1071 2013-10-30 17:27:32 <darsie> But I can send coins I received just after one confirm. ohh.
1072 2013-10-30 17:27:45 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1073 2013-10-30 17:28:06 <darsie> I don't (need to) understand that.
1074 2013-10-30 17:28:38 arioBarzan has joined
1075 2013-10-30 17:28:40 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1076 2013-10-30 17:28:45 <maaku> what's happening is that people are using a mt.gox receiving address for their miner payments
1077 2013-10-30 17:29:08 <darsie> Coinbase? Is that just another exchange? Why treat them specially ... in the btc protocol?
1078 2013-10-30 17:29:23 <gmaxwell> which is fine, and mtgox has its own custom wallet codeâ which is fine. But the wallet code is flawed and doesn't obey the bitcoin rules in this respect, which is not fine.
1079 2013-10-30 17:29:34 * gmaxwell groans
1080 2013-10-30 17:29:44 <maaku> darsie: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Coinbase
1081 2013-10-30 17:30:07 <gmaxwell> darsie: coinbase named their service after part of the bitcoin protocol, because apparently the world doesn't have enough confusion. Similar to blockchain.info.
1082 2013-10-30 17:30:51 <gmaxwell> We should change the protocol to make every part of it have an obscene name. "New coins are created via the MotherFucker transaction."
1083 2013-10-30 17:30:55 Grouver has joined
1084 2013-10-30 17:31:00 * maaku groans at the number academic articles doing data analysis on "the HTML blockchain"(.info)
1085 2013-10-30 17:31:03 <darsie> lol
1086 2013-10-30 17:31:36 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: or names like "Frobnizter"
1087 2013-10-30 17:31:37 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1088 2013-10-30 17:33:00 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: you'd think that coinbase would be obscure enough to prevent it from being commandeered...
1089 2013-10-30 17:34:16 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell TD ok, one more commit on my master branch can be trivially reviewed/merged
1090 2013-10-30 17:34:18 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1091 2013-10-30 17:35:33 rdymac has joined
1092 2013-10-30 17:35:57 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1093 2013-10-30 17:36:27 <wumpus> hehe
1094 2013-10-30 17:37:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: or we could ruin their brand by calling it coinbase.org
1095 2013-10-30 17:37:58 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well I'm kinda liking "coinbase transactions can't be spent for 100 blocks." perhaps in a banner on bitcoin.org. :P
1096 2013-10-30 17:38:04 <BlueMatt> the chain is now blockchain.me, coinbase is now coinbase.org...
1097 2013-10-30 17:38:13 <BlueMatt> hah
1098 2013-10-30 17:38:33 <gmaxwell> "Blockchain has no privacy"
1099 2013-10-30 17:39:09 <BlueMatt> "blockchain now takes 10gb storage on your computer"
1100 2013-10-30 17:40:56 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1101 2013-10-30 17:42:18 Icoin has joined
1102 2013-10-30 17:42:53 <BlueMatt> we need a bitcoin fortunes file
1103 2013-10-30 17:42:57 sustrik has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1104 2013-10-30 17:43:19 tcatm has joined
1105 2013-10-30 17:43:28 LordOfTime is now known as TheLordOfTime
1106 2013-10-30 17:44:09 <BlueMatt> then my fortune | cowsay .bashrc line wouldnt be so perl-oriented
1107 2013-10-30 17:46:17 ColinT has joined
1108 2013-10-30 17:47:34 Curios_2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1109 2013-10-30 17:48:45 <wumpus> yes that'd be fun
1110 2013-10-30 17:54:23 reizuki__ has joined
1111 2013-10-30 17:55:33 abueesp has joined
1112 2013-10-30 17:55:56 abueesp is now known as Guest32187
1113 2013-10-30 17:56:27 Guest32187 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1114 2013-10-30 17:57:02 jgarzik has joined
1115 2013-10-30 17:57:02 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
1116 2013-10-30 17:57:02 jgarzik has joined
1117 2013-10-30 18:00:10 ColinT has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1118 2013-10-30 18:02:42 bitspill has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1119 2013-10-30 18:03:22 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1120 2013-10-30 18:05:16 jakov has joined
1121 2013-10-30 18:05:34 daybyter has joined
1122 2013-10-30 18:10:10 Nopik has joined
1123 2013-10-30 18:11:21 digitalmagus2 has joined
1124 2013-10-30 18:24:21 askmike has joined
1125 2013-10-30 18:26:43 Curios_2 has joined
1126 2013-10-30 18:27:45 OneFixt_ has joined
1127 2013-10-30 18:27:49 jeewee has joined
1128 2013-10-30 18:31:26 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1129 2013-10-30 18:32:18 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
1130 2013-10-30 18:34:33 BCBot` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1131 2013-10-30 18:40:03 MagicFab_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1132 2013-10-30 18:40:53 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1133 2013-10-30 18:41:44 denisx has joined
1134 2013-10-30 18:44:13 <Happzz> sipa you up?
1135 2013-10-30 18:44:49 dgolds has joined
1136 2013-10-30 18:52:24 <Happzz> sipa so still havign the load issue that's taking forever
1137 2013-10-30 18:52:29 <Happzz> and my link is finally fixed
1138 2013-10-30 18:52:30 Application has joined
1139 2013-10-30 18:52:45 <Happzz> so i can talk and cooperate :o
1140 2013-10-30 18:52:49 <sipa> Happzz: what cpu/disk?
1141 2013-10-30 18:52:50 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1142 2013-10-30 18:53:05 <Happzz> sipa i7-870 and, sec, lemme see the disk
1143 2013-10-30 18:53:21 <sipa> during these 5 minutes, it is using 100% cpu?
1144 2013-10-30 18:53:29 <sipa> and if you start up, exit, and start again, does it still take 5 minutes?
1145 2013-10-30 18:53:44 asuk has joined
1146 2013-10-30 18:54:15 MagicFab_ has joined
1147 2013-10-30 18:54:19 <Happzz> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073
1148 2013-10-30 18:54:21 <Happzz> this is the disk
1149 2013-10-30 18:54:26 hnz has joined
1150 2013-10-30 18:54:40 <denisx> Happzz: what FS?
1151 2013-10-30 18:54:48 <Happzz> NTFS
1152 2013-10-30 18:54:57 <Happzz> sipa let me test it
1153 2013-10-30 18:55:28 shamoon has joined
1154 2013-10-30 18:55:40 Curios_2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1155 2013-10-30 18:55:48 chris_l has joined
1156 2013-10-30 18:56:09 <shamoon> dumb question - very dumb. trying to create a clone of bitcoin for my own evil purposes. what's the best place to start? i assume to get off the main bitcoin network and create my own p2p network?
1157 2013-10-30 18:56:51 <daybyter> look at the altcoin subforum of bitcointalk...
1158 2013-10-30 18:57:04 <daybyter> there are a bazillion coin types...
1159 2013-10-30 18:57:18 <null> why yes, i certainly want to buy 1 evilcoin for $1,000
1160 2013-10-30 18:57:21 <Happzz> sipa so it doesn't even use 10% cpu
1161 2013-10-30 18:57:33 <Happzz> sipa also if i close it and re-start it it takes much less time
1162 2013-10-30 18:57:47 ProfMac has joined
1163 2013-10-30 18:57:48 <sipa> Happzz: try defragmenting your disk :)
1164 2013-10-30 18:58:01 Muis has joined
1165 2013-10-30 18:58:24 <shamoon> thanks daybyter
1166 2013-10-30 18:58:36 <Happzz> sipa it's pretty defragged
1167 2013-10-30 18:58:39 <Happzz> except some new files
1168 2013-10-30 18:59:54 <Happzz> sipa
1169 2013-10-30 18:59:59 <Happzz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yihjpgeu34i0rqc/sipa-disk-frag.jpg
1170 2013-10-30 19:00:26 <shamoon> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=321547.0
1171 2013-10-30 19:00:36 <null> can you profile the windows binary? or do you need a debug binary for that?
1172 2013-10-30 19:00:44 <Happzz> all of the yellowish at the top are new files
1173 2013-10-30 19:00:49 <Happzz> that aren't related to bitcoin
1174 2013-10-30 19:01:18 l has joined
1175 2013-10-30 19:01:42 l is now known as Guest31982
1176 2013-10-30 19:03:19 Guest31982 has left ()
1177 2013-10-30 19:03:30 Guest31982 has joined
1178 2013-10-30 19:04:06 Guest31982 has left ()
1179 2013-10-30 19:04:35 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1180 2013-10-30 19:07:03 ThomasV has joined
1181 2013-10-30 19:07:24 SwapperMall has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1182 2013-10-30 19:09:40 SwapperMall has joined
1183 2013-10-30 19:10:09 SwapperMall is now known as Guest19272
1184 2013-10-30 19:10:17 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1185 2013-10-30 19:11:14 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1186 2013-10-30 19:12:49 hnz has joined
1187 2013-10-30 19:13:29 sustrik has joined
1188 2013-10-30 19:14:41 owowo has quit (Quit: °!° ~~ S4n1tY 1S Fut1l3 ~~ °!°)
1189 2013-10-30 19:16:16 owowo has joined
1190 2013-10-30 19:17:13 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1191 2013-10-30 19:18:36 MobPhone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1192 2013-10-30 19:19:01 MobPhone has joined
1193 2013-10-30 19:21:14 hnz has joined
1194 2013-10-30 19:22:26 Icoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1195 2013-10-30 19:23:21 ryny24 has joined
1196 2013-10-30 19:24:38 gst has joined
1197 2013-10-30 19:27:06 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1198 2013-10-30 19:30:49 hnz has joined
1199 2013-10-30 19:32:31 Blackreign has joined
1200 2013-10-30 19:35:59 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1201 2013-10-30 19:36:36 CircusPeanut has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1202 2013-10-30 19:39:39 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1203 2013-10-30 19:40:19 dansmith_btc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1204 2013-10-30 19:41:51 Perlboy has quit (Excess Flood)
1205 2013-10-30 19:42:21 Perlboy has joined
1206 2013-10-30 19:44:49 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|PiZZaMaN2K
1207 2013-10-30 19:46:07 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1208 2013-10-30 19:46:34 askmike has joined
1209 2013-10-30 19:47:47 ovidiusoft has joined
1210 2013-10-30 19:47:53 sustrik has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1211 2013-10-30 19:48:19 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1212 2013-10-30 19:50:47 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1213 2013-10-30 19:54:01 prophet10x has joined
1214 2013-10-30 19:55:33 pecket has joined
1215 2013-10-30 19:55:37 [\\\] has joined
1216 2013-10-30 19:59:09 disconnecteddd has joined
1217 2013-10-30 20:02:17 jakov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1218 2013-10-30 20:03:47 Musk has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1219 2013-10-30 20:06:12 lee___ has joined
1220 2013-10-30 20:06:52 disconnecteddd has left ()
1221 2013-10-30 20:07:08 jakov has joined
1222 2013-10-30 20:07:48 askmike has joined
1223 2013-10-30 20:12:45 denisx has joined
1224 2013-10-30 20:18:08 chris_l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1225 2013-10-30 20:19:32 Coincidental has joined
1226 2013-10-30 20:19:37 MagicFab_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1227 2013-10-30 20:22:00 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1228 2013-10-30 20:24:22 roconnor has joined
1229 2013-10-30 20:24:22 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1230 2013-10-30 20:24:25 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1231 2013-10-30 20:27:05 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
1232 2013-10-30 20:28:35 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
1233 2013-10-30 20:28:49 Nopik has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
1234 2013-10-30 20:31:19 shesek has joined
1235 2013-10-30 20:35:46 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1236 2013-10-30 20:36:50 MagicFab_ has joined
1237 2013-10-30 20:37:40 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1238 2013-10-30 20:39:55 FluffyBunny has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1239 2013-10-30 20:40:26 FluffyBunny has joined
1240 2013-10-30 20:41:27 <HaltingState> is it possible to recover public key from signature?
1241 2013-10-30 20:41:33 <HaltingState> or only from "compact" signatures?
1242 2013-10-30 20:41:42 ProfMac has joined
1243 2013-10-30 20:42:38 <sipa> HaltingState: given a signature and the message it supposedly signs, there are up to 4 (but almost always just 2) possible public keys
1244 2013-10-30 20:43:04 <HaltingState> so that "int" is 0 to 4? is there max size on recovery int?
1245 2013-10-30 20:43:36 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1246 2013-10-30 20:44:48 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ha there's a bug in my patch
1247 2013-10-30 20:45:01 <phantomcircuit> it's not really a dos issue but it is annoying
1248 2013-10-30 20:45:05 <sipa> HaltingState: it's an integer between 0 and 3
1249 2013-10-30 20:45:39 <HaltingState> what is a compact signature vs normal
1250 2013-10-30 20:46:45 AusBitBank has joined
1251 2013-10-30 20:50:41 <sipa> HaltingState: shorter encoding, and with that recovery bit added
1252 2013-10-30 20:51:31 shamoon has left ("Leaving...")
1253 2013-10-30 20:51:45 MiningBuddy has quit (AFK!~msn@109.201.152.247|Remote host closed the connection)
1254 2013-10-30 20:52:16 <HaltingState> sipa, how many bytes is the nonce really? its not 32 bytes when its used, but 20 bytes>?
1255 2013-10-30 20:52:27 <sipa> which nonce?
1256 2013-10-30 20:52:32 <HaltingState> for the signature
1257 2013-10-30 20:52:41 <sipa> 32 bytes
1258 2013-10-30 20:52:42 <HaltingState> the nonce for the secp256k1 signature
1259 2013-10-30 20:53:31 dgolds has joined
1260 2013-10-30 20:53:34 MiningBuddy has joined
1261 2013-10-30 20:53:37 Bohren_ has joined
1262 2013-10-30 20:54:15 <sipa> 32 bytes
1263 2013-10-30 20:54:27 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1264 2013-10-30 21:07:15 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1265 2013-10-30 21:07:21 viperhr has joined
1266 2013-10-30 21:07:40 askmike has joined
1267 2013-10-30 21:07:43 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1268 2013-10-30 21:07:49 askmike has joined
1269 2013-10-30 21:08:43 <helo> maaku: are you still working on https://github.com/maaku/coinjoin?
1270 2013-10-30 21:11:21 Bohren_ has quit ()
1271 2013-10-30 21:17:05 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1272 2013-10-30 21:20:01 <maaku> helo: only if someone is willing to pay for it
1273 2013-10-30 21:20:12 patcon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1274 2013-10-30 21:20:19 <maaku> i have some uncommited changes, but i haven't touched it since september
1275 2013-10-30 21:20:45 patcon has joined
1276 2013-10-30 21:21:04 patcon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1277 2013-10-30 21:21:25 <maaku> i posted a crowdfund and didn't get a single donation.. so i'm focusing on other things which people have voted for with their bitcoins (e.g. committed hash trees)
1278 2013-10-30 21:21:30 patcon has joined
1279 2013-10-30 21:21:47 [\\\] has joined
1280 2013-10-30 21:22:51 <maaku> HaltingState: compact signature is a misnomer - it's a larger signature which includes that bit for recovering the original key
1281 2013-10-30 21:23:02 <maaku> it's just more compact than signature + public key...
1282 2013-10-30 21:23:52 MagicFab_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1283 2013-10-30 21:24:07 <gmaxwell> ::sigh::
1284 2013-10-30 21:25:57 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1285 2013-10-30 21:26:11 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1286 2013-10-30 21:26:34 execut3 has joined
1287 2013-10-30 21:29:53 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1288 2013-10-30 21:29:54 <HaltingState> makomk, normally a signature is 72 or 74 bytes but compact signature is 64 bytes + 1 byte
1289 2013-10-30 21:30:05 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1290 2013-10-30 21:30:20 <HaltingState> am I missing something? why do you say compct signature is larger
1291 2013-10-30 21:31:01 Temper has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1292 2013-10-30 21:31:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1293 2013-10-30 21:31:10 edcba has left ()
1294 2013-10-30 21:31:20 crass has joined
1295 2013-10-30 21:31:29 edcba has joined
1296 2013-10-30 21:31:42 <maaku> gmaxwell: was i wrong?
1297 2013-10-30 21:33:03 <Luke-Jr> anyone here know, if there is anyone left who would object to (at the miner end) deprioritising address reuse by default?
1298 2013-10-30 21:33:48 <maaku> HaltingState: the relevant part of a signature is only 64 bytes (two 256 bit numbers)
1299 2013-10-30 21:34:06 <melvster> doesnt address reuse help keep the uxto down?
1300 2013-10-30 21:34:15 <maaku> melvster: no
1301 2013-10-30 21:34:33 rdymac has joined
1302 2013-10-30 21:35:13 <maaku> utxo stands for Unspent Transaction Outputs - it's the number of outputs that matters
1303 2013-10-30 21:35:29 <maaku> the address/script used doesn't really make a difference
1304 2013-10-30 21:35:34 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1305 2013-10-30 21:36:14 <melvster> oic
1306 2013-10-30 21:36:24 i2pRelay has joined
1307 2013-10-30 21:39:30 <helo> Luke-Jr: how would a miner identify address reuse?
1308 2013-10-30 21:39:53 dhill has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1309 2013-10-30 21:39:56 <Luke-Jr> helo: probably just keep a bloom filter of used addresses
1310 2013-10-30 21:42:04 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1311 2013-10-30 21:42:56 skinnkavaj has joined
1312 2013-10-30 21:42:56 skinnkavaj has quit (Changing host)
1313 2013-10-30 21:42:56 skinnkavaj has joined
1314 2013-10-30 21:43:25 patcon has joined
1315 2013-10-30 21:44:14 <gmaxwell> maaku: I was sighing about you not getting dounations.
1316 2013-10-30 21:46:12 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: bloom filters have false postives, kinda lame. my prior ideas was to just keep a limited map of prior addresses. Maybe just a hash table with a per node hash nonce and evict on collision.
1317 2013-10-30 21:47:54 djcoin_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1)
1318 2013-10-30 21:49:58 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1319 2013-10-30 21:50:34 <helo> deprioritize subsequent payment transactions to any address?
1320 2013-10-30 21:51:20 <helo> so if i pay a bill from two different wallets, i'll be deprioritized
1321 2013-10-30 21:52:21 <gmaxwell> helo: rational being three fold: that address reuse self-identifies transactions as coming from a common source, so we can give more equitable use of blockchain space by treating each user as a group, also reuse signifies a standing relationship, where fast confirmation is less essential, and third, our privacy model really strongly expects no or very limited reuse.
1322 2013-10-30 21:52:50 execut3 has joined
1323 2013-10-30 21:55:18 JTF195 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1324 2013-10-30 21:58:28 agricocb has joined
1325 2013-10-30 22:01:40 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1326 2013-10-30 22:02:16 patcon has joined
1327 2013-10-30 22:03:31 <Luke-Jr> hmm
1328 2013-10-30 22:03:37 <Luke-Jr> does PaymentACK allow for links?
1329 2013-10-30 22:03:44 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1330 2013-10-30 22:03:50 <Luke-Jr> seems like it'd be helpful for web services to give you a link to go to after you've paid
1331 2013-10-30 22:04:38 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1332 2013-10-30 22:06:43 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1333 2013-10-30 22:06:45 agnostic98 has joined
1334 2013-10-30 22:08:53 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1335 2013-10-30 22:13:58 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1336 2013-10-30 22:14:54 skinnkavaj has joined
1337 2013-10-30 22:14:54 skinnkavaj has quit (Changing host)
1338 2013-10-30 22:14:54 skinnkavaj has joined
1339 2013-10-30 22:18:40 s7r has joined
1340 2013-10-30 22:18:51 patcon has joined
1341 2013-10-30 22:22:49 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1342 2013-10-30 22:25:04 prophet10x has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1343 2013-10-30 22:26:17 prophet10x has joined
1344 2013-10-30 22:28:11 rdponticelli has joined
1345 2013-10-30 22:28:21 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1346 2013-10-30 22:28:24 Grouver has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.)
1347 2013-10-30 22:30:28 prophet10x has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1348 2013-10-30 22:31:59 prophet10x has joined
1349 2013-10-30 22:32:54 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1350 2013-10-30 22:33:30 Temper has joined
1351 2013-10-30 22:33:51 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1352 2013-10-30 22:35:09 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1353 2013-10-30 22:35:09 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1354 2013-10-30 22:36:03 rdymac has joined
1355 2013-10-30 22:37:38 rdponticelli has joined
1356 2013-10-30 22:39:45 [\\\] has joined
1357 2013-10-30 22:42:00 IGHOR has left ()
1358 2013-10-30 22:42:33 nonick has joined
1359 2013-10-30 22:42:44 nonick is now known as darkee
1360 2013-10-30 22:44:06 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1361 2013-10-30 22:44:12 lee___ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1362 2013-10-30 22:44:49 abueesp has joined
1363 2013-10-30 22:49:15 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1364 2013-10-30 22:51:52 wiretapped has joined
1365 2013-10-30 22:52:30 mappum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1366 2013-10-30 22:53:10 coeus has joined
1367 2013-10-30 22:54:49 mappum has joined
1368 2013-10-30 22:55:27 abueesp has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1369 2013-10-30 22:55:34 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1370 2013-10-30 23:00:07 daybyter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1371 2013-10-30 23:02:43 coeus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1372 2013-10-30 23:03:00 coeus has joined
1373 2013-10-30 23:04:06 prophet10x has quit ()
1374 2013-10-30 23:05:03 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1375 2013-10-30 23:05:25 ralphtheninja has quit (Quit: leaving)
1376 2013-10-30 23:09:33 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1377 2013-10-30 23:09:35 zer0def has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1378 2013-10-30 23:16:55 cald has joined
1379 2013-10-30 23:18:23 justusranvier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1380 2013-10-30 23:18:34 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1381 2013-10-30 23:20:31 Subo1977 has joined
1382 2013-10-30 23:22:19 gingpark has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1383 2013-10-30 23:22:34 gingpark has joined
1384 2013-10-30 23:24:15 frb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1385 2013-10-30 23:25:57 Andrevan has joined
1386 2013-10-30 23:29:16 frb has joined
1387 2013-10-30 23:32:48 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1388 2013-10-30 23:33:42 cald has quit ()
1389 2013-10-30 23:34:03 rdymac has joined
1390 2013-10-30 23:34:15 <gmaxwell> FWIW, I got ahold of Magicaltux. I suggestested a workaround to their coin selection problem and it sounds like they're going to implement, so their delayed withdraws should be fixed soon.
1391 2013-10-30 23:35:04 digitalmagus2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1392 2013-10-30 23:35:13 agnostic98 has joined
1393 2013-10-30 23:40:06 tcatm has joined
1394 2013-10-30 23:40:09 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
1395 2013-10-30 23:40:09 tcatm has joined
1396 2013-10-30 23:41:03 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1397 2013-10-30 23:42:30 firepacket has joined
1398 2013-10-30 23:43:06 deepc0re has quit (Quit: deepc0re)
1399 2013-10-30 23:47:32 bitnumus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1400 2013-10-30 23:50:09 bitnumus has joined
1401 2013-10-30 23:54:26 Mike_B has joined
1402 2013-10-30 23:54:39 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: just for BC, I presume? <.<
1403 2013-10-30 23:54:51 <gmaxwell> hah yes
1404 2013-10-30 23:54:58 <Luke-Jr> aww
1405 2013-10-30 23:56:23 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1406 2013-10-30 23:58:17 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1407 2013-10-30 23:58:54 askmike has joined
1408 2013-10-30 23:59:03 rdymac has joined