1 2013-10-31 00:00:15 Zarutian has joined
2 2013-10-31 00:02:55 <sipa> for what else?
3 2013-10-31 00:03:30 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4 2013-10-31 00:03:40 <maaku> sipa: their hideously delayed usd withdraws, I presume
5 2013-10-31 00:03:46 <sipa> ah
6 2013-10-31 00:04:03 diki has joined
7 2013-10-31 00:04:03 <sipa> not really 'coin selection', but ok :)
8 2013-10-31 00:04:15 dooglus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
9 2013-10-31 00:04:24 diki is now known as Guest72139
10 2013-10-31 00:04:49 Guest72139 has left ()
11 2013-10-31 00:05:01 diki has joined
12 2013-10-31 00:05:29 <diki> What ways are there for me to create a transaction from the private keys of my wallet without using the -Qt client?
13 2013-10-31 00:06:10 <sipa> use any other wallet client?
14 2013-10-31 00:06:12 <diki> or without running any other wallet software
15 2013-10-31 00:06:43 <Zarutian> diki: you could run the algorithms by hand but that is going to take a while
16 2013-10-31 00:06:44 <sipa> not sure what you mean
17 2013-10-31 00:06:48 <maaku> diki: by hand, using a magnetic tip on an atomic force microscope
18 2013-10-31 00:06:52 <sipa> unless you actually mean doing it by hand
19 2013-10-31 00:07:09 <diki> sipa:No I mean like how some people use createrawtx I think.
20 2013-10-31 00:07:21 <sipa> well then you're stilling using the client
21 2013-10-31 00:07:22 <diki> however I really have never used it or done anything like this before so
22 2013-10-31 00:07:31 <diki> sipa:Equivalent
23 2013-10-31 00:07:40 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
24 2013-10-31 00:08:00 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
25 2013-10-31 00:08:06 rdymac has joined
26 2013-10-31 00:08:10 <sipa> so you would like to know how to use the createrawtransaction RPC?
27 2013-10-31 00:08:37 <diki> I am asking how to create a transaction without using the -Qt client or any other wallet client.
28 2013-10-31 00:08:49 <sipa> then the answer is 'by hand'
29 2013-10-31 00:08:51 <diki> I remember somebody writing a 3rd party tool for doing it, but I can't remember
30 2013-10-31 00:09:32 <maaku> diki: a program which uses wallet keys to create transactions, is a wallet client. so we don't really understand your question
31 2013-10-31 00:09:43 Fistful_of_LTC has joined
32 2013-10-31 00:10:28 <lianj> https://github.com/lian/bitcoin-ruby/blob/master/examples/generate_tx.rb is a silly example. but usually you must be very careful :D
33 2013-10-31 00:12:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|diki: well, you've got things like brainwallet.org/#tx
34 2013-10-31 00:12:39 jakov has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
35 2013-10-31 00:13:04 <diki> michagogo|cloud:Thanks, exactly what I needed.
36 2013-10-31 00:13:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And there's also ,,(bc,wiki transactions) and ,,(bc,wiki script), which can help if you're looking to do it truly by hand
37 2013-10-31 00:13:29 <gribble> http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/transactions | Jul 22, 2013 ... A transaction is a signed section of data that is broadcast to the network and collected into blocks. It typically references previous transaction(s)Â ...
38 2013-10-31 00:13:30 <gribble> https://bitcoin.it/wiki/Script | Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Forth-like, Script ...
39 2013-10-31 00:15:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|"<gmaxwell> ...address reuse self-identifies transactions as coming from a common source...also reuse signifies a standing relationship..." <-- It *should*, I don't know if in practice it actually does at the moment.
40 2013-10-31 00:16:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(because of things like publically-posted donation addresses that people don't bother or are unable to make dynamic, etc)
41 2013-10-31 00:18:12 dooglus has joined
42 2013-10-31 00:18:54 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
43 2013-10-31 00:21:14 s7r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
44 2013-10-31 00:21:48 Temper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
45 2013-10-31 00:22:54 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
46 2013-10-31 00:23:12 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: for publically-posted donation addresses you also don't really care about confirmation time
47 2013-10-31 00:24:17 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
48 2013-10-31 00:24:39 i2pRelay has joined
49 2013-10-31 00:26:45 s7r has joined
50 2013-10-31 00:26:52 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
51 2013-10-31 00:27:51 Diablo-D3 has joined
52 2013-10-31 00:27:54 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
53 2013-10-31 00:27:55 rdponticelli_ has joined
54 2013-10-31 00:30:05 rlifchitz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
55 2013-10-31 00:30:18 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
56 2013-10-31 00:30:50 patcon has joined
57 2013-10-31 00:31:07 rlifchitz has joined
58 2013-10-31 00:31:36 Fistful_of_LTC is now known as crystalball
59 2013-10-31 00:35:03 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
60 2013-10-31 00:35:55 hnz has joined
61 2013-10-31 00:36:20 roconnor has joined
62 2013-10-31 00:37:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: I guess that is a good point, as long as a. the transactions do eventually get mined and b. receiving to an address multiple times is what gets deprioritized, rather than spending multiple inputs that were sent to the same address
63 2013-10-31 00:37:43 crystalball is now known as Fistful_of_LTC
64 2013-10-31 00:38:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Though, at least in the past, I've seen articles about bitcoin that describe a printed QR code being taken out for the customer, which seems to imply address reuse... :-/)
65 2013-10-31 00:39:52 <lianj> yea
66 2013-10-31 00:40:09 <sipa> i hope that the payment protocol will get people to move away from that
67 2013-10-31 00:40:43 <sipa> i'm not sure though- it seems that many have already adopted the view that coins are sent from and to addresses, and that wallet == address
68 2013-10-31 00:40:48 <lianj> although if you never move coin off that address its not so bad. eg, if the only tx you make is to send all those coins to another place in one final tx
69 2013-10-31 00:41:13 <sipa> still unnecessary linking
70 2013-10-31 00:41:17 <lianj> someone slap me if that wrong
71 2013-10-31 00:41:20 <lianj> true
72 2013-10-31 00:41:51 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|manually slaps lianj around a bit with a large trout
73 2013-10-31 00:41:54 patcon has joined
74 2013-10-31 00:42:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|("manually" because my client on my computer, which is out for repair, has a context-menu shortcut for that built in)
75 2013-10-31 00:43:53 Sipax has joined
76 2013-10-31 00:45:36 [\\\] has joined
77 2013-10-31 00:45:44 Sipax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
78 2013-10-31 00:46:39 epickaxe has quit (Quit: Page closed)
79 2013-10-31 00:54:16 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
80 2013-10-31 00:55:32 jtimon has joined
81 2013-10-31 00:57:19 tsche has joined
82 2013-10-31 01:02:54 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
83 2013-10-31 01:03:34 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
84 2013-10-31 01:03:55 Luke-Jr has joined
85 2013-10-31 01:05:30 mrkent has joined
86 2013-10-31 01:06:54 darkskiez has joined
87 2013-10-31 01:12:19 handle_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
88 2013-10-31 01:15:12 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
89 2013-10-31 01:15:42 Ascendion has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
90 2013-10-31 01:15:51 TheSeven has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
91 2013-10-31 01:16:15 TheSeven has joined
92 2013-10-31 01:20:30 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
93 2013-10-31 01:21:29 one_zero has joined
94 2013-10-31 01:25:02 Blackreign has quit ()
95 2013-10-31 01:25:45 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
96 2013-10-31 01:26:54 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
97 2013-10-31 01:27:14 sensorii has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
98 2013-10-31 01:27:38 i2pRelay has joined
99 2013-10-31 01:28:25 Lavois has joined
100 2013-10-31 01:29:57 sensorii has joined
101 2013-10-31 01:32:58 agricocb has joined
102 2013-10-31 01:33:24 Lavois has quit (Quit: Lavois)
103 2013-10-31 01:35:01 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
104 2013-10-31 01:35:15 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
105 2013-10-31 01:36:22 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
106 2013-10-31 01:40:37 Krellan_ has joined
107 2013-10-31 01:41:59 nethershaw has joined
108 2013-10-31 01:42:08 Krellan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
109 2013-10-31 01:42:15 diki has quit ()
110 2013-10-31 01:44:18 Belxjander has joined
111 2013-10-31 01:45:38 roconnor has joined
112 2013-10-31 01:47:30 Krellan_ has joined
113 2013-10-31 01:53:52 robocoin_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
114 2013-10-31 01:57:03 robocoin has joined
115 2013-10-31 01:57:53 ezview has joined
116 2013-10-31 01:58:14 ezview has left ()
117 2013-10-31 02:00:56 Fistful_of_LTC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
118 2013-10-31 02:01:43 <ahmedbodi> hey guys
119 2013-10-31 02:01:46 <ahmedbodi> is anyone aqround?
120 2013-10-31 02:02:24 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
121 2013-10-31 02:02:47 roconnor has joined
122 2013-10-31 02:02:55 Fistful_of_LTC has joined
123 2013-10-31 02:03:55 ezview has joined
124 2013-10-31 02:05:27 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
125 2013-10-31 02:07:52 <BlueMatt> never
126 2013-10-31 02:07:53 roconnor has joined
127 2013-10-31 02:09:17 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
128 2013-10-31 02:10:01 <ahmedbodi> lool
129 2013-10-31 02:10:17 <ahmedbodi> does anyone know if its possible to convert an address to a pubkey?
130 2013-10-31 02:10:32 <lianj> it isn't
131 2013-10-31 02:10:42 <firepacket> check the blockchain to see if its been spent from?
132 2013-10-31 02:10:45 <lianj> only to the addresses hash160 hash
133 2013-10-31 02:10:48 Fistful_of_LTC is now known as o3u
134 2013-10-31 02:11:03 <lianj> yes, and what firepacket said
135 2013-10-31 02:12:51 molec has joined
136 2013-10-31 02:14:10 <ahmedbodi> right okay thanks
137 2013-10-31 02:14:21 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
138 2013-10-31 02:15:46 moleccc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
139 2013-10-31 02:19:21 Namworld has quit ()
140 2013-10-31 02:28:01 o3u is now known as Fistful_of_LTC
141 2013-10-31 02:28:11 <Fistful_of_LTC> ah, a montrealer
142 2013-10-31 02:28:25 <Fistful_of_LTC> has quit :/
143 2013-10-31 02:29:39 crass has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
144 2013-10-31 02:30:47 crass has joined
145 2013-10-31 02:31:24 keyboard has joined
146 2013-10-31 02:31:30 reneg has joined
147 2013-10-31 02:42:18 gritball has joined
148 2013-10-31 02:44:31 gritball_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
149 2013-10-31 02:49:38 skinnkavaj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
150 2013-10-31 02:50:39 skinnkavaj has joined
151 2013-10-31 02:53:46 MagicFab_ has joined
152 2013-10-31 02:54:56 _alp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
153 2013-10-31 02:55:50 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
154 2013-10-31 02:56:30 guruvan has joined
155 2013-10-31 03:06:53 Application has joined
156 2013-10-31 03:08:19 _alp_ has joined
157 2013-10-31 03:14:40 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
158 2013-10-31 03:14:56 da2ce7 has joined
159 2013-10-31 03:15:32 guruvan has joined
160 2013-10-31 03:16:18 <Fistful_of_LTC> is there a bot on IRC that allows wallet management? sending/receiving BTCs (perhaps interfacing with some wallet)
161 2013-10-31 03:18:07 saivann has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
162 2013-10-31 03:22:46 toffoo has joined
163 2013-10-31 03:24:50 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
164 2013-10-31 03:24:55 <Ry4an> yikes I hope not :)
165 2013-10-31 03:25:26 patcon has joined
166 2013-10-31 03:26:04 saivann has joined
167 2013-10-31 03:27:54 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
168 2013-10-31 03:29:39 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
169 2013-10-31 03:29:50 melvster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
170 2013-10-31 03:30:38 patcon has joined
171 2013-10-31 03:32:19 crass has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
172 2013-10-31 03:33:06 crass has joined
173 2013-10-31 03:35:34 darsie has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
174 2013-10-31 03:36:32 Subo1977_ has joined
175 2013-10-31 03:36:46 ezview has quit (Quit: Page closed)
176 2013-10-31 03:37:34 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
177 2013-10-31 03:49:16 elevatioN has joined
178 2013-10-31 03:51:12 Coincidental has joined
179 2013-10-31 03:53:27 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
180 2013-10-31 03:55:34 malaimo has joined
181 2013-10-31 03:59:10 Tantadruj has joined
182 2013-10-31 04:02:27 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
183 2013-10-31 04:02:52 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
184 2013-10-31 04:03:45 Luke-Jr has joined
185 2013-10-31 04:06:43 Tantadruj has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
186 2013-10-31 04:06:45 jegz has joined
187 2013-10-31 04:07:10 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
188 2013-10-31 04:07:58 Luke-Jr has joined
189 2013-10-31 04:09:31 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
190 2013-10-31 04:10:12 Luke-Jr has joined
191 2013-10-31 04:10:28 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
192 2013-10-31 04:10:28 _ingsoc has joined
193 2013-10-31 04:10:49 Luke-Jr has joined
194 2013-10-31 04:13:48 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
195 2013-10-31 04:14:08 Luke-Jr has joined
196 2013-10-31 04:15:26 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
197 2013-10-31 04:16:14 Luke-Jr has joined
198 2013-10-31 04:17:07 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
199 2013-10-31 04:17:28 Luke-Jr has joined
200 2013-10-31 04:18:45 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
201 2013-10-31 04:19:06 Luke-Jr has joined
202 2013-10-31 04:19:49 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
203 2013-10-31 04:20:28 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
204 2013-10-31 04:21:02 patcon has joined
205 2013-10-31 04:22:04 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
206 2013-10-31 04:23:05 Luke-Jr has joined
207 2013-10-31 04:24:54 jegz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
208 2013-10-31 04:25:41 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
209 2013-10-31 04:26:09 Tantadruj has joined
210 2013-10-31 04:27:02 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
211 2013-10-31 04:27:23 Luke-Jr has joined
212 2013-10-31 04:27:43 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
213 2013-10-31 04:28:32 Luke-Jr has joined
214 2013-10-31 04:28:42 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
215 2013-10-31 04:29:03 Luke-Jr has joined
216 2013-10-31 04:29:22 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
217 2013-10-31 04:29:45 Luke-Jr has joined
218 2013-10-31 04:31:00 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
219 2013-10-31 04:31:47 Luke-Jr has joined
220 2013-10-31 04:33:09 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
221 2013-10-31 04:33:15 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
222 2013-10-31 04:33:37 Luke-Jr has joined
223 2013-10-31 04:33:55 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
224 2013-10-31 04:34:15 Luke-Jr has joined
225 2013-10-31 04:34:53 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
226 2013-10-31 04:35:18 [\\\] has joined
227 2013-10-31 04:35:41 sakil10 has joined
228 2013-10-31 04:35:45 Luke-Jr has joined
229 2013-10-31 04:36:32 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
230 2013-10-31 04:37:53 eoss has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
231 2013-10-31 04:38:19 roconnor has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
232 2013-10-31 04:46:28 sakil10 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
233 2013-10-31 04:46:43 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
234 2013-10-31 04:49:25 agnostic98 has joined
235 2013-10-31 04:49:49 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
236 2013-10-31 04:49:56 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
237 2013-10-31 04:50:02 [7] has joined
238 2013-10-31 04:50:20 johnsoft has joined
239 2013-10-31 04:50:58 dgolds has joined
240 2013-10-31 04:51:52 patcon has joined
241 2013-10-31 04:52:38 elevatioN has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
242 2013-10-31 04:52:47 dgolds_ has joined
243 2013-10-31 04:52:49 eoss has joined
244 2013-10-31 04:53:05 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
245 2013-10-31 04:53:20 patcon has joined
246 2013-10-31 04:55:10 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
247 2013-10-31 04:56:37 t has quit (ronic!~mayer@psi.cysec.org|Remote host closed the connection)
248 2013-10-31 04:57:11 dgolds_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
249 2013-10-31 05:13:07 bbrian has joined
250 2013-10-31 05:23:14 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
251 2013-10-31 05:24:40 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
252 2013-10-31 05:26:04 owowo has joined
253 2013-10-31 05:28:09 guruvan has joined
254 2013-10-31 05:28:53 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
255 2013-10-31 05:29:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ahmedbodi: to clarify, given an address, you can get the pubkey if either a coin sent to that address has been spent, or if the address is yours.
256 2013-10-31 05:29:26 patcon has joined
257 2013-10-31 05:30:35 Polyatomic has joined
258 2013-10-31 05:30:35 Polyatomic has quit (Changing host)
259 2013-10-31 05:30:35 Polyatomic has joined
260 2013-10-31 05:30:39 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
261 2013-10-31 05:33:48 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
262 2013-10-31 05:36:42 Luke-Jr has joined
263 2013-10-31 05:37:40 HobGoblin has joined
264 2013-10-31 05:37:54 s7r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
265 2013-10-31 05:38:03 HobGoblin is now known as Guest42152
266 2013-10-31 05:38:55 UukGoblin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
267 2013-10-31 05:39:16 MagicFab_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
268 2013-10-31 05:39:28 s7r has joined
269 2013-10-31 05:39:35 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
270 2013-10-31 05:39:35 random_cat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
271 2013-10-31 05:39:54 rdponticelli has joined
272 2013-10-31 05:39:54 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
273 2013-10-31 05:39:55 rdponticelli_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
274 2013-10-31 05:39:55 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
275 2013-10-31 05:40:47 wiretapped has joined
276 2013-10-31 05:40:49 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
277 2013-10-31 05:41:46 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
278 2013-10-31 05:45:25 random_cat_ has joined
279 2013-10-31 05:45:44 glen1 has joined
280 2013-10-31 05:45:47 glen1 has left ("Leaving")
281 2013-10-31 05:45:56 asuk has joined
282 2013-10-31 05:47:40 asuk has quit (Client Quit)
283 2013-10-31 05:50:17 X-Scale has joined
284 2013-10-31 05:53:33 dgolds has joined
285 2013-10-31 05:53:34 asuk has joined
286 2013-10-31 05:53:43 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
287 2013-10-31 05:57:58 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
288 2013-10-31 06:03:56 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
289 2013-10-31 06:06:04 Coincidental has joined
290 2013-10-31 06:09:45 dbitcoin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
291 2013-10-31 06:11:04 kuzetsa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
292 2013-10-31 06:11:10 ivan` has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
293 2013-10-31 06:11:12 Ry4an has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
294 2013-10-31 06:11:28 tunage has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
295 2013-10-31 06:11:41 agentbob has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
296 2013-10-31 06:12:24 gbg has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
297 2013-10-31 06:15:21 dbitcoin has joined
298 2013-10-31 06:16:17 kuzetsa has joined
299 2013-10-31 06:16:21 viperhr has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
300 2013-10-31 06:17:01 viperhr has joined
301 2013-10-31 06:19:01 Ry4an has joined
302 2013-10-31 06:19:23 agentbob has joined
303 2013-10-31 06:19:25 gbg has joined
304 2013-10-31 06:20:18 ivan` has joined
305 2013-10-31 06:22:54 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
306 2013-10-31 06:29:01 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
307 2013-10-31 06:29:21 sustrik has joined
308 2013-10-31 06:32:19 wizkid057 has joined
309 2013-10-31 06:38:05 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
310 2013-10-31 06:39:42 reizuki__ has joined
311 2013-10-31 06:39:42 reizuki__ has quit (Changing host)
312 2013-10-31 06:39:42 reizuki__ has joined
313 2013-10-31 06:43:23 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
314 2013-10-31 06:44:28 owowo has joined
315 2013-10-31 06:48:26 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
316 2013-10-31 06:54:16 dgolds has joined
317 2013-10-31 06:54:34 wizkid057 has joined
318 2013-10-31 06:56:29 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
319 2013-10-31 06:58:41 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
320 2013-10-31 07:00:21 canoon has joined
321 2013-10-31 07:02:26 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
322 2013-10-31 07:03:04 owowo has joined
323 2013-10-31 07:07:40 rck109d_ has joined
324 2013-10-31 07:09:11 rck109d has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
325 2013-10-31 07:12:01 zer0def has joined
326 2013-10-31 07:12:58 jeewee has joined
327 2013-10-31 07:19:45 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
328 2013-10-31 07:25:34 djcoin_ has joined
329 2013-10-31 07:31:18 Belxjander has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
330 2013-10-31 07:35:24 ThomasV has joined
331 2013-10-31 07:48:40 sustrik has quit (Quit: Leaving)
332 2013-10-31 07:51:37 owowo has quit (Quit: °!° ~~ S4n1tY 1S Fut1l3 ~~ °!°)
333 2013-10-31 07:53:37 djcoin_ has left ()
334 2013-10-31 07:55:06 dgolds has joined
335 2013-10-31 07:56:42 xiangfu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
336 2013-10-31 07:57:49 valparaiso_ has joined
337 2013-10-31 08:00:09 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
338 2013-10-31 08:00:50 zeiris has joined
339 2013-10-31 08:00:52 valparaiso has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
340 2013-10-31 08:00:52 valparaiso_ is now known as valparaiso
341 2013-10-31 08:07:00 MagicFab_ has joined
342 2013-10-31 08:08:12 darkFunc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
343 2013-10-31 08:20:30 owowo has joined
344 2013-10-31 08:21:19 agnostic98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
345 2013-10-31 08:21:54 agnostic98 has joined
346 2013-10-31 08:25:26 MagicFab_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
347 2013-10-31 08:26:06 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
348 2013-10-31 08:28:32 toffoo has quit ()
349 2013-10-31 08:29:38 <ThomasV> sipa: if I use /m/i'/ derivations for account, then it becomes impossible to create a wallet protected with 2fa
350 2013-10-31 08:30:01 <ThomasV> because I must keep /m/ in the wallet
351 2013-10-31 08:30:22 Guest42152 has quit (Changing host)
352 2013-10-31 08:30:22 Guest42152 has joined
353 2013-10-31 08:30:37 <ThomasV> that's anothr reason why I departed from the bip32 recommendation
354 2013-10-31 08:30:40 Guest42152 is now known as UukGoblin
355 2013-10-31 08:31:09 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
356 2013-10-31 08:31:34 PhantomSpark has joined
357 2013-10-31 08:32:23 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
358 2013-10-31 08:32:59 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
359 2013-10-31 08:35:44 rdponticelli has joined
360 2013-10-31 08:36:14 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
361 2013-10-31 08:36:39 MobiusL has joined
362 2013-10-31 08:36:39 MobiusL has quit (Changing host)
363 2013-10-31 08:36:39 MobiusL has joined
364 2013-10-31 08:37:56 Belxjander has joined
365 2013-10-31 08:38:21 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
366 2013-10-31 08:39:00 PhantomSpark has joined
367 2013-10-31 08:41:35 ovidiusoft has joined
368 2013-10-31 08:41:40 ThomasV has joined
369 2013-10-31 08:45:16 Zarutian has joined
370 2013-10-31 08:47:30 sensorii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
371 2013-10-31 08:47:50 sensorii has joined
372 2013-10-31 08:50:01 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
373 2013-10-31 08:50:29 sustrik has joined
374 2013-10-31 08:52:34 agnostic98 has joined
375 2013-10-31 08:53:03 _ingsoc has joined
376 2013-10-31 08:53:43 rck109d has joined
377 2013-10-31 08:55:04 rck109d_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
378 2013-10-31 08:55:54 dgolds has joined
379 2013-10-31 08:57:13 abrkn has joined
380 2013-10-31 08:57:28 dgolds_ has joined
381 2013-10-31 09:00:33 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
382 2013-10-31 09:01:44 dgolds_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
383 2013-10-31 09:04:21 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
384 2013-10-31 09:07:04 rdymac has joined
385 2013-10-31 09:10:45 askmike has joined
386 2013-10-31 09:16:29 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
387 2013-10-31 09:18:47 MC1984 has joined
388 2013-10-31 09:18:57 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
389 2013-10-31 09:20:38 MC1984_ has joined
390 2013-10-31 09:23:33 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
391 2013-10-31 09:24:41 troj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
392 2013-10-31 09:25:34 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
393 2013-10-31 09:26:54 awishformore has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
394 2013-10-31 09:30:03 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
395 2013-10-31 09:32:20 Thepok has joined
396 2013-10-31 09:33:23 graingert has joined
397 2013-10-31 09:33:30 xiangfu has joined
398 2013-10-31 09:35:22 elevatioN has joined
399 2013-10-31 09:40:57 troj has joined
400 2013-10-31 09:41:18 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
401 2013-10-31 09:42:06 jeewee has joined
402 2013-10-31 09:43:42 awishformore has joined
403 2013-10-31 09:43:57 <sipa> ;;later tell ThomasV I don't understand why you need to keep /m in the wallet for 2fa?
404 2013-10-31 09:43:58 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
405 2013-10-31 09:47:34 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
406 2013-10-31 09:48:34 rdymac has joined
407 2013-10-31 09:50:59 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
408 2013-10-31 09:52:24 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
409 2013-10-31 09:52:41 _ingsoc has joined
410 2013-10-31 09:53:05 agnostic98 has joined
411 2013-10-31 09:53:34 rdymac has joined
412 2013-10-31 09:57:08 asuk has joined
413 2013-10-31 09:57:57 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
414 2013-10-31 09:58:11 dgolds has joined
415 2013-10-31 09:59:16 ThomasV has joined
416 2013-10-31 09:59:25 jeewee has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
417 2013-10-31 09:59:59 <ThomasV> sipa: for 2fa, I want to remove m/ from the wallet, precisely
418 2013-10-31 10:00:37 <ThomasV> but if I want 2fa accounts to coexist with normal accounts, I need to derive the normal accounts from a deeper level
419 2013-10-31 10:02:05 <ThomasV> for example I remove m/, I keep m/0'/, and I derive accounts as m/0'/i'/
420 2013-10-31 10:02:16 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
421 2013-10-31 10:07:30 asuk has quit ()
422 2013-10-31 10:07:41 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
423 2013-10-31 10:07:52 xiangfu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
424 2013-10-31 10:08:04 rdymac has joined
425 2013-10-31 10:08:40 FabianB has joined
426 2013-10-31 10:09:07 jeewee has joined
427 2013-10-31 10:09:30 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
428 2013-10-31 10:18:57 <Evilmax> ;;blocks
429 2013-10-31 10:19:00 <gribble> 267075
430 2013-10-31 10:20:00 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
431 2013-10-31 10:21:04 rdymac has joined
432 2013-10-31 10:22:51 asuk has joined
433 2013-10-31 10:22:55 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
434 2013-10-31 10:25:18 fanquake has joined
435 2013-10-31 10:30:21 molecular has joined
436 2013-10-31 10:30:55 dansmith_btc has joined
437 2013-10-31 10:32:20 <molecular> I need some help analyzing why a bitcoind exhibits extremely slow RPC (getinfo, listtransaction) behaviour (multiple MINUTES)
438 2013-10-31 10:32:41 asuk has quit ()
439 2013-10-31 10:32:44 <molecular> during the call I see nothing in debug.log, digesting of new transactions seems halted
440 2013-10-31 10:33:07 <molecular> node is synced
441 2013-10-31 10:33:15 <molecular> what could be the reason?
442 2013-10-31 10:33:18 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
443 2013-10-31 10:35:28 xiangfu has joined
444 2013-10-31 10:35:29 <molecular> cpu is 100% during the rpc call, iotop reports negligible io throughput of bitcoind, there's enough free ram
445 2013-10-31 10:36:22 <molecular> after call completes (2 minutes, 54 seconds in last test), new transactions are accepted again to mempool (a flush of them)
446 2013-10-31 10:44:49 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
447 2013-10-31 10:45:02 <sipa> how large is the wallet?
448 2013-10-31 10:45:19 <sipa> in #keys and #transactions
449 2013-10-31 10:53:04 agnostic98 has joined
450 2013-10-31 10:53:31 arioBarzan has joined
451 2013-10-31 10:54:00 <Happzz> sipa so i defragged my hdd, again
452 2013-10-31 10:54:04 <Happzz> now i'm getting this load time
453 2013-10-31 10:54:04 <Happzz> 2013-10-31 09:37:39 Verifying last 288 blocks at level 3
454 2013-10-31 10:54:04 <Happzz> 2013-10-31 09:44:34 No coin database inconsistencies in last 164 blocks (38975 transactions)
455 2013-10-31 10:54:04 <Happzz> 2013-10-31 09:44:34 block index 420786ms
456 2013-10-31 10:54:15 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
457 2013-10-31 10:54:25 <Happzz> ~7 minutes
458 2013-10-31 10:54:39 <Happzz> are you still confident it's an harddisk issue?
459 2013-10-31 10:55:03 <arioBarzan> Which BIP is currently used for P2SH? Is it BIP_0017?
460 2013-10-31 10:55:29 <molecular> sipa, wallet could be large (file is 2MB). it's possible I have 1000 addresses in there
461 2013-10-31 10:59:17 dgolds has joined
462 2013-10-31 10:59:19 PhantomSpark has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
463 2013-10-31 10:59:30 <molecular> sipa, I have 121 "accounts" (1 address each) and another account with 5 addresses
464 2013-10-31 10:59:38 <molecular> so no, not many addresses in the wallet
465 2013-10-31 10:59:44 PhantomSpark has joined
466 2013-10-31 10:59:53 <warren> wumpus: we're seeing some signs of the new mingw32 built client crashes on windows xp =(
467 2013-10-31 11:00:02 t7 has joined
468 2013-10-31 11:00:23 <wumpus> warren: any idea what happens?
469 2013-10-31 11:01:01 ralphtheninja has joined
470 2013-10-31 11:01:18 <wumpus> I mean, random crashes could come from any of the other changes too...
471 2013-10-31 11:03:36 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
472 2013-10-31 11:05:14 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
473 2013-10-31 11:06:31 <molecular> sipa, removed wallet.dat temporarily, restarted bitcoind and it's fast (0.023s). So it's something with the wallet. Could the 120 accounts be an issue?
474 2013-10-31 11:06:39 <warren> wumpus: memory access violation. I have no idea how to debug on windows to figure out exactly where its crashing.
475 2013-10-31 11:07:13 <warren> wumpus: in other news, I'm surprised to find the win32 builds work just fine in wine...
476 2013-10-31 11:07:41 <wumpus> I have no idea either; do they do anything special when it crashes?
477 2013-10-31 11:07:49 <warren> nothing
478 2013-10-31 11:08:13 <warren> zero complaints from Windows 7 users
479 2013-10-31 11:08:35 <wumpus> yes, the mingw builds work fine in wine, always did, except for a certain window in time it crashed with wine due to boost::interprocess
480 2013-10-31 11:09:32 <warren> later I will make a win64 gitian target and see how that goes.
481 2013-10-31 11:09:53 <wumpus> that may be more credit to wine than due to bitcoin though :) I haven't encountered a windows program for quite a while that didn't work in wine in some capacity
482 2013-10-31 11:10:14 <warren> wine isn't bug for bug compatible? =)
483 2013-10-31 11:10:34 <wumpus> not entirely, but it's getting very close
484 2013-10-31 11:11:04 <sipa> molecular: 1000 is nothing
485 2013-10-31 11:11:17 <molecular> damn, but something is weird with that wallet
486 2013-10-31 11:11:22 <warren> wumpus: we need to put together funding to get cfields to complete the mac cross compile to .dmg.
487 2013-10-31 11:11:33 <sipa> arioBarzan: P2SH is specified in BIP13
488 2013-10-31 11:11:41 <sipa> arioBarzan: the implementation to mapping it to scripts is BIP16
489 2013-10-31 11:11:45 <arioBarzan> sipa: thanks
490 2013-10-31 11:11:48 <molecular> sipa, is 120 many accounts?
491 2013-10-31 11:12:02 <wumpus> warren: well, mac users are rich aren't they ? :)
492 2013-10-31 11:12:15 <molecular> sipa, I think I'll just decommission that wallet
493 2013-10-31 11:12:22 <molecular> sipa, thanks for your help!
494 2013-10-31 11:12:27 <warren> wumpus: who would hold the pot in escrow?
495 2013-10-31 11:13:26 <molecular> sipa, if you're interested, I can send you that wallet.dat
496 2013-10-31 11:13:36 execut3 has joined
497 2013-10-31 11:13:40 <wumpus> warren: someone that people trust not to run away with the coins
498 2013-10-31 11:15:16 <wumpus> or some kind of N-out-of-M construction
499 2013-10-31 11:15:45 <warren> sipa: I'm stumped on what the heck is going on with the coin control + watchonly behavior. It messes up even with zero watchonly addresses imported.
500 2013-10-31 11:15:49 <wumpus> like gmaxwell did for the coinjoin work
501 2013-10-31 11:16:13 <warren> wumpus: you have a mac by chance?
502 2013-10-31 11:16:20 <wumpus> nope, I'm 100% linux
503 2013-10-31 11:16:24 <warren> me too
504 2013-10-31 11:16:34 <warren> I just bought a 2009 macbook pro in order to debug stuff...
505 2013-10-31 11:16:45 ralphtheninja has quit (Quit: leaving)
506 2013-10-31 11:16:57 <wumpus> and I've got a windows xp VM for testing, but I prefer not to use it for debugging because I suck at windows debugging :)
507 2013-10-31 11:18:32 <warren> wumpus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320695.0 I copied all of litecoin's patches and make a bitcoin-0.8.5 branch with all the fun stuff. I'm stuck on two bugs: 1) on mac the GUI disappears and can't be brought back by clicking on the dock 2) watchonly fails spectacularly when combined with coin control
508 2013-10-31 11:18:42 <wumpus> I guess it'd be possible to convert addreses in the minidumps that windows makes to line numbers somehow
509 2013-10-31 11:19:34 <wumpus> (especially for gitian builds, as it's easy to create equivalent builds without stripping the debug info)
510 2013-10-31 11:20:07 <wumpus> warren: hmm I think the mac GUI disappearance problem was solved at some point
511 2013-10-31 11:20:38 <warren> wumpus: yeah, it was solved, then something post 0.8 reintroduced it, and something after that fixed it again, I didn't find the last part.
512 2013-10-31 11:21:20 <wumpus> oh that was issue #1522, thats before 0.8 indeed
513 2013-10-31 11:21:42 <warren> yeah, probably one of the 0.9 patches I included broke it again
514 2013-10-31 11:21:54 <warren> and I test easily what broke it
515 2013-10-31 11:21:59 <warren> or what fixes it again
516 2013-10-31 11:23:11 <wumpus> yes someone (Jonas Schnelli) helped with mac dev for a while, but hes been pretty silent lately, so now things can break again on mac :p
517 2013-10-31 11:23:37 <warren> master fixed it again
518 2013-10-31 11:23:43 <wumpus> okay :)
519 2013-10-31 11:23:43 <warren> I just haven't found what fixed it
520 2013-10-31 11:23:54 <warren> because I don't have a working mac dev environment yet
521 2013-10-31 11:25:41 _ingsoc has joined
522 2013-10-31 11:25:50 <warren> zz
523 2013-10-31 11:26:06 <wumpus> later
524 2013-10-31 11:26:54 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
525 2013-10-31 11:27:03 Raziel has joined
526 2013-10-31 11:28:07 wiretapped has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
527 2013-10-31 11:28:31 wiretapped has joined
528 2013-10-31 11:31:11 one_zero has quit ()
529 2013-10-31 11:32:03 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
530 2013-10-31 11:32:44 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
531 2013-10-31 11:33:28 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
532 2013-10-31 11:34:11 jtimon has joined
533 2013-10-31 11:39:03 Zarutian has joined
534 2013-10-31 11:42:24 elevatioN has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
535 2013-10-31 11:44:56 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
536 2013-10-31 11:45:52 jgarzik_ has joined
537 2013-10-31 11:46:28 jgarzik_ has quit (Changing host)
538 2013-10-31 11:46:28 jgarzik_ has joined
539 2013-10-31 11:46:53 * jgarzik_ glares suspiciously at jgarzik
540 2013-10-31 11:46:58 <jgarzik_> mornin'
541 2013-10-31 11:48:11 <joeykrim> morning
542 2013-10-31 11:50:50 <arioBarzan> for P2SH, scriptPubKey: OP_HASH160 [20-byte-hash of {[pubkey] OP_CHECKSIG} ] OP_EQUAL
543 2013-10-31 11:50:53 <arioBarzan> If one could find a scriptSig that after OP_HASH160 it euquals that [20-byte-hash], could he spend it without going through the musltisignature validation process?
544 2013-10-31 11:51:34 Polyatomic has quit (Quit: Polyatomic)
545 2013-10-31 11:52:09 <lianj> arioBarzan: not since p2sh is enabled
546 2013-10-31 11:52:24 <lianj> the inner script will be executed too
547 2013-10-31 11:52:52 <lianj> since timestamp 1333238400
548 2013-10-31 11:53:22 agnostic98 has joined
549 2013-10-31 11:54:00 ivan` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
550 2013-10-31 11:56:27 <arioBarzan> lianj: By "the inner script will be executed too", do you mean rule "{serialized script} is popped off the initial stack, and the transaction is validated again using the popped stack and the deserialized script as the scriptPubKey." https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016 ?
551 2013-10-31 11:59:21 <lianj> yes
552 2013-10-31 11:59:40 dgolds has joined
553 2013-10-31 11:59:48 ivan` has joined
554 2013-10-31 12:01:55 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
555 2013-10-31 12:04:30 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
556 2013-10-31 12:06:08 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
557 2013-10-31 12:06:56 rdponticelli has joined
558 2013-10-31 12:08:19 jeewee has joined
559 2013-10-31 12:10:05 melvster has joined
560 2013-10-31 12:10:11 xiangfu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
561 2013-10-31 12:10:17 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
562 2013-10-31 12:11:42 <sipa> warren: i haven't looked at your merge
563 2013-10-31 12:11:57 <sipa> warren: i figure we'll merge one of them first, and the other will have to rebase and figure out how to integrate
564 2013-10-31 12:13:34 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
565 2013-10-31 12:15:28 Musk has joined
566 2013-10-31 12:19:20 execut3 has joined
567 2013-10-31 12:19:57 K1773R has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
568 2013-10-31 12:24:41 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Sayonara)
569 2013-10-31 12:25:58 K1773R has joined
570 2013-10-31 12:26:49 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
571 2013-10-31 12:27:22 asuk has joined
572 2013-10-31 12:30:52 Belxjander has joined
573 2013-10-31 12:33:55 mappum has joined
574 2013-10-31 12:37:30 asuk has quit ()
575 2013-10-31 12:38:49 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
576 2013-10-31 12:41:57 Gabralkhan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
577 2013-10-31 12:43:21 _alp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
578 2013-10-31 12:44:16 Namworld has joined
579 2013-10-31 12:48:58 skinnkavaj has joined
580 2013-10-31 12:51:07 Evilmax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
581 2013-10-31 12:51:08 swords has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
582 2013-10-31 12:51:15 datagutt has joined
583 2013-10-31 12:51:24 TheLordOfTime has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
584 2013-10-31 12:51:37 swords has joined
585 2013-10-31 12:53:19 agnostic98 has joined
586 2013-10-31 12:53:33 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
587 2013-10-31 12:54:25 execut3 has joined
588 2013-10-31 12:55:12 patcon has joined
589 2013-10-31 12:55:52 gritball has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
590 2013-10-31 12:57:32 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
591 2013-10-31 12:57:34 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
592 2013-10-31 12:57:47 agricocb has joined
593 2013-10-31 12:58:16 fanquake has left ()
594 2013-10-31 12:59:28 TheLordOfTime has joined
595 2013-10-31 13:00:46 dgolds has joined
596 2013-10-31 13:03:18 _alp_ has joined
597 2013-10-31 13:05:20 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
598 2013-10-31 13:07:53 jeewee has joined
599 2013-10-31 13:20:32 tsche has quit ()
600 2013-10-31 13:20:35 netg has quit (Quit: leaving)
601 2013-10-31 13:20:45 netg has joined
602 2013-10-31 13:21:16 netg has quit (Client Quit)
603 2013-10-31 13:21:57 netg has joined
604 2013-10-31 13:31:54 Nesetalis has joined
605 2013-10-31 13:31:59 <null> TD[away]: re cameron http://www.cityam.com/article/1383185012/press-regulator-given-approval-queen?utm_source=website&utm_medium=TD_news_headlines_right_col&utm_campaign=TD_news_headlines_right_col
606 2013-10-31 13:35:47 AusBitBank has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
607 2013-10-31 13:40:16 netg2 has joined
608 2013-10-31 13:42:48 netg has quit (Quit: leaving)
609 2013-10-31 13:43:18 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
610 2013-10-31 13:43:47 hsmiths has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
611 2013-10-31 13:46:31 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
612 2013-10-31 13:46:48 hsmiths has joined
613 2013-10-31 13:50:05 abrkn has joined
614 2013-10-31 13:51:30 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
615 2013-10-31 13:53:32 agnostic98 has joined
616 2013-10-31 13:54:06 netg2 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
617 2013-10-31 13:54:53 netg has joined
618 2013-10-31 13:55:05 rdymac has joined
619 2013-10-31 13:55:13 netg has quit (Client Quit)
620 2013-10-31 13:56:41 Anduck has joined
621 2013-10-31 13:57:23 Mike_B has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
622 2013-10-31 14:01:10 dgolds has joined
623 2013-10-31 14:01:58 bmcgee has joined
624 2013-10-31 14:05:18 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
625 2013-10-31 14:06:12 netg has joined
626 2013-10-31 14:07:52 rck109d has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
627 2013-10-31 14:08:43 MobGod has joined
628 2013-10-31 14:09:59 netg has quit (Client Quit)
629 2013-10-31 14:14:42 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
630 2013-10-31 14:15:38 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
631 2013-10-31 14:16:10 patcon has joined
632 2013-10-31 14:21:09 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
633 2013-10-31 14:21:11 netg has joined
634 2013-10-31 14:21:26 MC1984 has joined
635 2013-10-31 14:21:43 asuk has joined
636 2013-10-31 14:22:10 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
637 2013-10-31 14:22:19 jeewee has joined
638 2013-10-31 14:22:35 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
639 2013-10-31 14:23:18 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
640 2013-10-31 14:23:19 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
641 2013-10-31 14:23:34 MC1984_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
642 2013-10-31 14:24:12 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
643 2013-10-31 14:24:54 netg has quit (Client Quit)
644 2013-10-31 14:25:06 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
645 2013-10-31 14:25:38 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
646 2013-10-31 14:25:54 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
647 2013-10-31 14:25:54 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
648 2013-10-31 14:26:24 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
649 2013-10-31 14:34:47 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
650 2013-10-31 14:35:18 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
651 2013-10-31 14:36:03 jtimon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
652 2013-10-31 14:36:11 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
653 2013-10-31 14:36:30 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
654 2013-10-31 14:36:42 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
655 2013-10-31 14:36:54 dgolds has joined
656 2013-10-31 14:41:05 rdymac has joined
657 2013-10-31 14:43:13 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
658 2013-10-31 14:46:12 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
659 2013-10-31 14:46:43 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
660 2013-10-31 14:51:43 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
661 2013-10-31 14:52:14 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
662 2013-10-31 14:53:11 agnostic98 has joined
663 2013-10-31 14:54:03 Gabralkhan has joined
664 2013-10-31 14:58:09 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
665 2013-10-31 14:58:56 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
666 2013-10-31 14:59:09 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
667 2013-10-31 14:59:27 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
668 2013-10-31 15:00:14 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
669 2013-10-31 15:00:45 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
670 2013-10-31 15:02:05 rdymac has joined
671 2013-10-31 15:02:41 patcon has joined
672 2013-10-31 15:03:51 abueesp has joined
673 2013-10-31 15:05:21 bbrian has joined
674 2013-10-31 15:08:23 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
675 2013-10-31 15:08:23 crass has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
676 2013-10-31 15:08:55 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
677 2013-10-31 15:08:57 patcon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
678 2013-10-31 15:09:07 MrDaneelOlivaw has joined
679 2013-10-31 15:09:19 crass has joined
680 2013-10-31 15:09:26 patcon has joined
681 2013-10-31 15:10:07 eoss has joined
682 2013-10-31 15:10:41 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
683 2013-10-31 15:11:13 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
684 2013-10-31 15:12:51 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
685 2013-10-31 15:13:22 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
686 2013-10-31 15:15:40 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
687 2013-10-31 15:16:11 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
688 2013-10-31 15:17:40 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
689 2013-10-31 15:18:07 patcon has joined
690 2013-10-31 15:22:23 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
691 2013-10-31 15:24:03 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
692 2013-10-31 15:24:11 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
693 2013-10-31 15:24:43 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
694 2013-10-31 15:26:55 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
695 2013-10-31 15:27:27 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
696 2013-10-31 15:28:03 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
697 2013-10-31 15:28:35 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
698 2013-10-31 15:29:39 asuk is now known as afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|asuk
699 2013-10-31 15:29:40 netg has joined
700 2013-10-31 15:30:10 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
701 2013-10-31 15:32:37 jeewee has joined
702 2013-10-31 15:32:42 agnostic98 has joined
703 2013-10-31 15:33:20 patcon has joined
704 2013-10-31 15:36:34 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Sayonara)
705 2013-10-31 15:36:49 mrkent has joined
706 2013-10-31 15:40:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: get that bouncer figured out :p
707 2013-10-31 15:44:26 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
708 2013-10-31 15:44:54 patcon has joined
709 2013-10-31 15:47:57 Clown- has joined
710 2013-10-31 15:47:57 has quit (Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Killed (rothfuss.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
711 2013-10-31 15:47:57 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
712 2013-10-31 15:49:12 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
713 2013-10-31 15:52:47 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
714 2013-10-31 15:54:48 Xiris has joined
715 2013-10-31 15:54:50 patcon has joined
716 2013-10-31 15:58:20 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
717 2013-10-31 15:59:08 Subo1977 has joined
718 2013-10-31 16:00:15 bbrian has joined
719 2013-10-31 16:01:08 Belxjander has joined
720 2013-10-31 16:01:39 testnode9 has joined
721 2013-10-31 16:02:35 Subo1977_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
722 2013-10-31 16:03:10 roconnor has joined
723 2013-10-31 16:03:55 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
724 2013-10-31 16:07:30 execut3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
725 2013-10-31 16:09:29 _ingsoc has joined
726 2013-10-31 16:10:10 netg has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
727 2013-10-31 16:10:35 netg has joined
728 2013-10-31 16:12:03 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
729 2013-10-31 16:13:13 xiangfu has joined
730 2013-10-31 16:13:13 Tantadruj has joined
731 2013-10-31 16:13:27 tiyoT has joined
732 2013-10-31 16:13:36 <tiyoT> anyone about?
733 2013-10-31 16:14:58 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
734 2013-10-31 16:15:17 <weex> tiyoT: you're on the air, go ahead
735 2013-10-31 16:15:31 <tiyoT> ;)
736 2013-10-31 16:15:41 <tiyoT> usb ASIC miner production, start to finish; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp0pM6UHono
737 2013-10-31 16:15:42 daybyter has joined
738 2013-10-31 16:21:13 arioBarzan has joined
739 2013-10-31 16:23:26 abueesp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
740 2013-10-31 16:23:28 <arioBarzan> could someone describe this rule about P2SH a little further?: "{serialized script} is popped off the initial stack, and the transaction is validated again using the popped stack and the deserialized script as the scriptPubKey." https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016
741 2013-10-31 16:24:12 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
742 2013-10-31 16:24:42 patcon has joined
743 2013-10-31 16:25:30 <sipa> so the scriptPubKey is OP_HASH160 <p2sh> OP_EQUAL
744 2013-10-31 16:25:47 abueesp has joined
745 2013-10-31 16:25:49 <sipa> and the scriptSig is <normal scriptSig> <actual script>
746 2013-10-31 16:26:19 <sipa> and the validation is done as if <actual script> were the scriptPubKey, and <normal scriptSig> was the scriptSig
747 2013-10-31 16:26:22 <arioBarzan> sipa: thanks
748 2013-10-31 16:29:14 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
749 2013-10-31 16:30:29 abueesp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
750 2013-10-31 16:31:17 is now known as Clown|!Clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Guest32334
751 2013-10-31 16:31:17 Clown- has joined
752 2013-10-31 16:31:17 Guest32334 has quit (Killed (asimov.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
753 2013-10-31 16:31:17 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
754 2013-10-31 16:34:15 patcon has joined
755 2013-10-31 16:35:12 FluffyBunny has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
756 2013-10-31 16:35:12 MiningBuddy has quit (AFK!~msn@109.201.154.136|Remote host closed the connection)
757 2013-10-31 16:35:15 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
758 2013-10-31 16:35:52 MiningBuddy has joined
759 2013-10-31 16:36:25 FluffyBunny has joined
760 2013-10-31 16:36:42 t7 has quit (Quit: home)
761 2013-10-31 16:36:45 MiningBuddy has quit (AFK!~msn@109.201.154.167|Client Quit)
762 2013-10-31 16:37:06 MiningBuddy has joined
763 2013-10-31 16:37:41 <arioBarzan> Is at first the hash of redeem script is checked to be equal with <p2sh> and then the signatures are checked with corresponding public keys, or vice versa?
764 2013-10-31 16:37:46 <arioBarzan> What I can't understand is whether a script that hashes to <p2sh> could be put in place instead of the redeem script, assuming one could find such a script (for example if rmd160 is compromised)?
765 2013-10-31 16:38:23 MiningBuddy has quit (Client Quit)
766 2013-10-31 16:38:39 MiningBuddy has joined
767 2013-10-31 16:38:57 <sipa> if you could find a preimage for the p2sh hash, sure
768 2013-10-31 16:38:57 <sipa> that's assumed to be impossible
769 2013-10-31 16:38:57 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
770 2013-10-31 16:40:05 rdymac has joined
771 2013-10-31 16:40:08 MiningBuddy has quit (Client Quit)
772 2013-10-31 16:40:18 <kjj> yes
773 2013-10-31 16:40:30 MiningBuddy has joined
774 2013-10-31 16:40:39 <kjj> note that a preimage would also break non-P2SH transactions
775 2013-10-31 16:41:08 <sipa> not just any preimage - it must be one corresponding to a script that you know how to solve (and only you!)
776 2013-10-31 16:41:20 MiningBuddy has quit (Client Quit)
777 2013-10-31 16:41:29 <sipa> which is very simimar to standard pay-to-pubkey-hash addresses indeed
778 2013-10-31 16:41:38 <arioBarzan> sipa: So from security perspective it seams to me that multisig addresses are a bit less secure than normal addresses, because for normal addresses ECDSA and SHA256 and rmd160 all should get compromised, right?
779 2013-10-31 16:41:42 MiningBuddy has joined
780 2013-10-31 16:42:04 <kjj> P2SH was a very slight reduction of security overall. preimages get easier the more freedom you have on the input. a normal address hash has very little freedom, while p2sh has a fair amount
781 2013-10-31 16:42:23 <sipa> it's probably easier to find a valid script you can satisfy than a valid pubkey you can satisfy
782 2013-10-31 16:43:10 <kjj> arioBarzan: depends on the preimage attack. if you can only find one that satisfies the final hash, you have to break both. if the attack allows classes, you can get by with a search
783 2013-10-31 16:44:25 crass has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
784 2013-10-31 16:44:31 asuk has joined
785 2013-10-31 16:44:46 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
786 2013-10-31 16:45:24 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
787 2013-10-31 16:45:39 crass has joined
788 2013-10-31 16:45:56 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
789 2013-10-31 16:46:30 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
790 2013-10-31 16:46:35 rdymac has joined
791 2013-10-31 16:46:44 Xiris has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
792 2013-10-31 16:48:05 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
793 2013-10-31 16:48:07 Arnavion has joined
794 2013-10-31 16:48:22 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
795 2013-10-31 16:48:26 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
796 2013-10-31 16:48:35 rdymac_ has joined
797 2013-10-31 16:48:55 rdymac_ is now known as rdymac
798 2013-10-31 16:49:18 xiangfu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
799 2013-10-31 16:50:20 <arioBarzan> I had not paid attention to the preimage side of story. thanks sipa and kjj.
800 2013-10-31 16:50:33 _ingsoc has joined
801 2013-10-31 16:51:53 <kjj> knowing how preimage attacks really work is a great comfort when thinking about bitcoin. most of the attacks involve appending tons of garbage onto the end of the message, which is not allowed in bitcoin
802 2013-10-31 16:52:20 <kjj> in fact, just about everything in bitcoin that involves a hash requires a fairly tight format, which makes it very highly resistant to preimages
803 2013-10-31 16:54:01 <kjj> md5 is considered to be totally broken, but if we used it in bitcoin (ignore the size mismatch for a moment), it would be totally secure.
804 2013-10-31 16:54:09 bbrian has joined
805 2013-10-31 16:55:37 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
806 2013-10-31 16:55:48 <kjj> If I made a p2sh script and hashed it with md5, no one on earth is capable of making another script with the same hash, even though they could if I gave them a HTML document or a PDF
807 2013-10-31 16:56:47 <arioBarzan> Attacker could iterate his attack on the output by generating a new receiving address for each iteration, if he wants to brute-force the preimage.
808 2013-10-31 16:56:50 bbrian has quit (Client Quit)
809 2013-10-31 16:57:06 bbrian has joined
810 2013-10-31 16:57:12 agnostic98 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
811 2013-10-31 16:57:20 <kjj> 128 bits is still well outside the capability of the human race to find by brute force
812 2013-10-31 16:57:24 agnostic_ has joined
813 2013-10-31 16:57:27 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
814 2013-10-31 16:57:35 rdymac has joined
815 2013-10-31 16:58:01 <kjj> lunch time, back later
816 2013-10-31 16:58:13 <arioBarzan> kjj: tnx
817 2013-10-31 16:58:24 <arioBarzan> kjj: you might have a look to this http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7781/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which-bitcoin-dodged-some-cryptographic-bullet/
818 2013-10-31 16:59:22 agnostic_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
819 2013-10-31 16:59:55 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
820 2013-10-31 17:00:26 Clown- has joined
821 2013-10-31 17:00:26 has quit (Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Killed (cameron.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
822 2013-10-31 17:00:26 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
823 2013-10-31 17:00:36 groglogic has joined
824 2013-10-31 17:02:18 Clown- has joined
825 2013-10-31 17:02:18 is now known as Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Guest20758
826 2013-10-31 17:02:18 Guest20758 has quit (Killed (calvino.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
827 2013-10-31 17:02:18 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
828 2013-10-31 17:04:31 <jgarzik_> interesting... new solo miners
829 2013-10-31 17:05:39 <jgarzik_> Several not-seen-before-5-days-ago IP addresses for blocks., on blockchain.info. New solo miners, or just artifact of blockchain.info collecting methods? ...
830 2013-10-31 17:06:47 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
831 2013-10-31 17:07:03 dansmith_btc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
832 2013-10-31 17:10:11 bitspill has joined
833 2013-10-31 17:11:19 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
834 2013-10-31 17:13:24 _ingsoc has joined
835 2013-10-31 17:15:47 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
836 2013-10-31 17:16:18 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
837 2013-10-31 17:16:18 patcon has joined
838 2013-10-31 17:17:11 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
839 2013-10-31 17:17:51 dgolds has joined
840 2013-10-31 17:20:02 asuk has joined
841 2013-10-31 17:20:12 asuk is now known as asuk|afk
842 2013-10-31 17:20:29 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
843 2013-10-31 17:20:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik_: what kind of hashpower do the new solo-looking miners have? (is that knowable?)
844 2013-10-31 17:21:33 <jgarzik_> michagogo|cloud, not really knowable over a short term
845 2013-10-31 17:21:43 <jgarzik_> even if the IP address tracking is correct
846 2013-10-31 17:22:05 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
847 2013-10-31 17:23:20 i2pRelay has joined
848 2013-10-31 17:23:52 abrkn has joined
849 2013-10-31 17:24:46 Eiii has joined
850 2013-10-31 17:26:19 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
851 2013-10-31 17:29:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I guess
852 2013-10-31 17:29:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, could you estimate the total?
853 2013-10-31 17:29:38 is now known as Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Guest42447
854 2013-10-31 17:29:38 Clown- has joined
855 2013-10-31 17:29:38 Guest42447 has quit (Killed (cameron.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
856 2013-10-31 17:29:38 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
857 2013-10-31 17:30:12 asuk has quit (afk!~asuk@31.129.27.89|)
858 2013-10-31 17:30:31 dgolds has joined
859 2013-10-31 17:32:50 jgarzik_ has quit (Quit: apple apple apple)
860 2013-10-31 17:33:41 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
861 2013-10-31 17:35:02 bitspill has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
862 2013-10-31 17:35:07 _ingsoc has joined
863 2013-10-31 17:38:53 is now known as Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Guest11480
864 2013-10-31 17:38:53 Clown- has joined
865 2013-10-31 17:38:53 Guest11480 has quit (Killed (calvino.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
866 2013-10-31 17:38:53 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
867 2013-10-31 17:38:54 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
868 2013-10-31 17:40:20 ralphtheninja has joined
869 2013-10-31 17:40:58 asuk has joined
870 2013-10-31 17:46:05 rdymac has joined
871 2013-10-31 17:46:29 pecket has joined
872 2013-10-31 17:47:03 btcven has joined
873 2013-10-31 17:47:06 patcon has joined
874 2013-10-31 17:47:28 btcven has quit (Client Quit)
875 2013-10-31 17:49:31 Tantadruj has joined
876 2013-10-31 17:50:08 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
877 2013-10-31 17:50:47 asuk has quit ()
878 2013-10-31 17:52:29 bitspill has joined
879 2013-10-31 17:53:35 rdymac has joined
880 2013-10-31 17:55:00 jtimon has joined
881 2013-10-31 17:55:00 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
882 2013-10-31 17:55:34 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
883 2013-10-31 17:57:54 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
884 2013-10-31 17:58:52 netg has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
885 2013-10-31 18:00:05 graingert has joined
886 2013-10-31 18:00:05 graingert has quit (Changing host)
887 2013-10-31 18:00:05 graingert has joined
888 2013-10-31 18:00:51 mappum has joined
889 2013-10-31 18:01:36 netg has joined
890 2013-10-31 18:01:53 netg has quit (Client Quit)
891 2013-10-31 18:02:16 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
892 2013-10-31 18:02:22 netg has joined
893 2013-10-31 18:02:58 graingert has joined
894 2013-10-31 18:03:00 jtimon_ has joined
895 2013-10-31 18:03:30 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
896 2013-10-31 18:03:44 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
897 2013-10-31 18:03:55 graingert has joined
898 2013-10-31 18:03:55 graingert has quit (Changing host)
899 2013-10-31 18:03:55 graingert has joined
900 2013-10-31 18:06:05 rdymac has joined
901 2013-10-31 18:06:07 linq has joined
902 2013-10-31 18:08:56 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
903 2013-10-31 18:09:07 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
904 2013-10-31 18:09:26 netg has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
905 2013-10-31 18:09:34 netg has joined
906 2013-10-31 18:09:39 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
907 2013-10-31 18:10:37 agricocb has joined
908 2013-10-31 18:10:56 _ingsoc has joined
909 2013-10-31 18:11:11 patcon has joined
910 2013-10-31 18:14:17 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
911 2013-10-31 18:19:21 <sipa> ;;nethash
912 2013-10-31 18:19:22 <gribble> 3897593.37202
913 2013-10-31 18:19:54 graingert has joined
914 2013-10-31 18:19:54 graingert has quit (Changing host)
915 2013-10-31 18:19:54 graingert has joined
916 2013-10-31 18:23:46 GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
917 2013-10-31 18:25:00 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
918 2013-10-31 18:27:48 groglogic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
919 2013-10-31 18:29:51 TheLordOfTime has joined
920 2013-10-31 18:31:16 jtimon has joined
921 2013-10-31 18:36:58 diki has joined
922 2013-10-31 18:37:29 <diki> I just discovered that Bitcoin is also useful for one more thing that probably nobody thought about.
923 2013-10-31 18:37:41 <diki> It's that it eliminates the need to touch dirty(literal sense) money.
924 2013-10-31 18:39:43 <diki> in theory, it means less diseases spread.
925 2013-10-31 18:40:16 ovidiusoft has joined
926 2013-10-31 18:40:27 <kjj> heh. you aren't the first
927 2013-10-31 18:44:01 Coincidental has joined
928 2013-10-31 18:44:24 jtimon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
929 2013-10-31 18:44:42 yano has joined
930 2013-10-31 18:47:18 markus__ has joined
931 2013-10-31 18:51:11 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
932 2013-10-31 18:53:05 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
933 2013-10-31 18:53:24 <daybyter> diki: Adrian Monk should promote bitcoin...
934 2013-10-31 18:53:44 chris_l has joined
935 2013-10-31 18:58:56 Anduck has joined
936 2013-10-31 18:58:56 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
937 2013-10-31 18:58:56 Anduck has joined
938 2013-10-31 18:59:42 <Eneerge> more sanitary for sure
939 2013-10-31 19:00:31 asuk has joined
940 2013-10-31 19:02:30 Grouver has joined
941 2013-10-31 19:02:40 bitspill has joined
942 2013-10-31 19:06:53 abueesp has joined
943 2013-10-31 19:08:36 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
944 2013-10-31 19:09:13 Eiii has joined
945 2013-10-31 19:10:38 dgolds has joined
946 2013-10-31 19:11:07 denisx has joined
947 2013-10-31 19:12:28 abueesp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
948 2013-10-31 19:12:57 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
949 2013-10-31 19:13:20 Luke-Jr has joined
950 2013-10-31 19:14:48 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
951 2013-10-31 19:15:29 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
952 2013-10-31 19:15:41 Luke-Jr has joined
953 2013-10-31 19:17:15 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
954 2013-10-31 19:17:52 Krellan_ has joined
955 2013-10-31 19:19:32 paraipan has joined
956 2013-10-31 19:19:45 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
957 2013-10-31 19:19:48 Beldur has joined
958 2013-10-31 19:19:52 CloudsDew has joined
959 2013-10-31 19:21:10 rdymac has joined
960 2013-10-31 19:21:52 OrP has joined
961 2013-10-31 19:21:53 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
962 2013-10-31 19:22:18 patcon has joined
963 2013-10-31 19:24:17 Cazz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
964 2013-10-31 19:25:25 crass has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
965 2013-10-31 19:25:39 Cazz0r has joined
966 2013-10-31 19:25:57 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
967 2013-10-31 19:26:07 <diki> daybyter:I've recently become very monk-like myself
968 2013-10-31 19:26:15 <diki> I use wipes for everything too
969 2013-10-31 19:26:21 crass has joined
970 2013-10-31 19:26:30 <diki> from opening the door to wiping anything dirty such as my phone
971 2013-10-31 19:26:50 Eiii has joined
972 2013-10-31 19:27:03 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
973 2013-10-31 19:27:24 bitspill has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
974 2013-10-31 19:27:35 _ingsoc has joined
975 2013-10-31 19:36:35 <Ry4an> ...to wiping the wipe holder and pulling out the next wipe
976 2013-10-31 19:38:24 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
977 2013-10-31 19:39:12 bitspill has joined
978 2013-10-31 19:40:41 sustrik has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
979 2013-10-31 19:42:52 asuk has quit ()
980 2013-10-31 19:44:00 <diki> the problem comes when you have to wipe the package with the wipes
981 2013-10-31 19:44:12 <diki> ...and the wipes are inside the package
982 2013-10-31 19:49:25 <helo> a lack of exposure to bacteria/virii can weaken your immune system
983 2013-10-31 19:49:30 patcon has joined
984 2013-10-31 19:51:38 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
985 2013-10-31 19:51:54 AusBitBank has joined
986 2013-10-31 19:51:59 Luke-Jr has joined
987 2013-10-31 19:54:10 <maaku> or worse, result in auto-immune disorders
988 2013-10-31 19:54:24 <maaku> when a bored immune system turns on, say, your kidneys
989 2013-10-31 20:01:02 JimJones has joined
990 2013-10-31 20:03:46 askmike has joined
991 2013-10-31 20:05:42 bitspill has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
992 2013-10-31 20:10:16 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
993 2013-10-31 20:10:42 patcon has joined
994 2013-10-31 20:12:34 Luke-Jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
995 2013-10-31 20:12:54 Luke-Jr has joined
996 2013-10-31 20:14:23 execut3 has joined
997 2013-10-31 20:15:24 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
998 2013-10-31 20:16:44 sustrik has joined
999 2013-10-31 20:17:28 Wild_Bill has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1000 2013-10-31 20:17:54 Nopik has joined
1001 2013-10-31 20:22:27 Pucilowski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1002 2013-10-31 20:22:47 Pucilowski has joined
1003 2013-10-31 20:23:00 Application has joined
1004 2013-10-31 20:29:06 pooler has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1005 2013-10-31 20:32:29 pooler has joined
1006 2013-10-31 20:32:54 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1007 2013-10-31 20:33:20 askmike has joined
1008 2013-10-31 20:34:13 groglogic has joined
1009 2013-10-31 20:36:31 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1010 2013-10-31 20:37:59 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1011 2013-10-31 20:38:33 askmike has joined
1012 2013-10-31 20:38:36 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1013 2013-10-31 20:39:10 askmike has joined
1014 2013-10-31 20:39:52 patcon has joined
1015 2013-10-31 20:40:41 CloudsDew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1016 2013-10-31 20:42:09 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
1017 2013-10-31 20:43:29 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1018 2013-10-31 20:43:53 owowo has quit (Quit: °!° ~~ S4n1tY 1S Fut1l3 ~~ °!°)
1019 2013-10-31 20:45:33 ThomasV has joined
1020 2013-10-31 20:46:28 owowo has joined
1021 2013-10-31 20:52:52 skinnkavaj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1022 2013-10-31 20:53:03 skinnkavaj has joined
1023 2013-10-31 20:53:12 chris_l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1024 2013-10-31 20:54:35 Gabralkhan_ has joined
1025 2013-10-31 20:55:18 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1026 2013-10-31 20:57:59 Gabralkhan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1027 2013-10-31 20:58:35 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1028 2013-10-31 21:01:54 <helo> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/meet-badbios-the-mysterious-mac-and-pc-malware-that-jumps-airgaps/
1029 2013-10-31 21:03:18 <helo> apparently it isn't safe to use a thumb drive to move the blockchain or even unsigned transactions to airgap machines :/
1030 2013-10-31 21:04:00 <helo> well... may not be safe, if you are unlucky enough to be targeted by the NSA
1031 2013-10-31 21:04:37 <helo> err... s/NSA/secret ultimate power attack group/
1032 2013-10-31 21:05:47 <owowo> apple?
1033 2013-10-31 21:06:12 <owowo> google, amazon, microsoft?
1034 2013-10-31 21:06:19 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1035 2013-10-31 21:08:05 javax_ has joined
1036 2013-10-31 21:09:58 pwnobs has joined
1037 2013-10-31 21:19:04 warren has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
1038 2013-10-31 21:20:07 warren has joined
1039 2013-10-31 21:20:39 <Beldur> How is it possible https://blockchain.info/ says Block 267164 is younger than 267165
1040 2013-10-31 21:20:42 <Beldur> ?
1041 2013-10-31 21:21:00 Krellan_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1042 2013-10-31 21:21:07 warren has quit (Client Quit)
1043 2013-10-31 21:21:36 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1044 2013-10-31 21:22:02 warren has joined
1045 2013-10-31 21:22:25 <gmaxwell> Beldur: uh, you might want to retry your question.
1046 2013-10-31 21:22:56 <gmaxwell> Beldur: Do you mean its telling you the _timestamp_ on 4 is more recent thatn 5? Thats not unusual.
1047 2013-10-31 21:23:21 <Beldur> How is it possible that https://blockchain.info/ says than Block 267164 is 6 minutes old but block 267165 is 8 minutes old
1048 2013-10-31 21:24:15 <sipa> because blocks carry their own timestamp, which is - within some limits - chosen by miners
1049 2013-10-31 21:24:22 <Beldur> ah ok
1050 2013-10-31 21:24:31 <sipa> in particular, there is no requirement that they are strictly increasing
1051 2013-10-31 21:24:36 <Beldur> ok
1052 2013-10-31 21:24:41 <diki> this is so stupid
1053 2013-10-31 21:24:50 <gmaxwell> It shouldn't be calling that "age" but whatever, there is no reason to expect any data on bc.i to have any particular level of accuracy regardless.
1054 2013-10-31 21:24:53 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1055 2013-10-31 21:25:08 <diki> why would an ethernet card be able to send and receive packets over ultrahigh frequency sound??
1056 2013-10-31 21:25:28 <diki> rather, just receive
1057 2013-10-31 21:26:15 gavinandresen has joined
1058 2013-10-31 21:26:40 rdymac has joined
1059 2013-10-31 21:27:17 Krellan_ has joined
1060 2013-10-31 21:27:24 <Luke-Jr> â¦
1061 2013-10-31 21:27:38 <diki> Luke-Jr:what?
1062 2013-10-31 21:27:55 <gmaxwell> I wonder if they'll show a negative age for timestamps in the future?
1063 2013-10-31 21:28:05 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you should move eligis' clock an hour ahead to see what happens. :P
1064 2013-10-31 21:28:13 <Beldur> ~_~
1065 2013-10-31 21:28:30 patcon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1066 2013-10-31 21:28:34 <sipa> that probably wouldn't hurt anything at all
1067 2013-10-31 21:28:53 <sipa> except it may set of an arm's race where people try to set it as close to the 2h limits as possible without causing massive forking
1068 2013-10-31 21:28:58 patcon has joined
1069 2013-10-31 21:29:01 <sipa> *arms
1070 2013-10-31 21:29:05 <gmaxwell> oh sure, it's harmless, eligius actually has built a +1 hour block in the past.
1071 2013-10-31 21:29:22 <wizkid057> we did?!
1072 2013-10-31 21:29:35 <wizkid057> (yes I have an "eligius" highlight... lol)
1073 2013-10-31 21:29:45 <gmaxwell> wizkid057: yea, some ntime rolling issue or something. was in 2011 I think.
1074 2013-10-31 21:29:45 <sipa> you must religious
1075 2013-10-31 21:29:51 <sipa> +be
1076 2013-10-31 21:30:03 <wizkid057> ah
1077 2013-10-31 21:30:11 <wizkid057> sipa: not really... i just run Eligius :P
1078 2013-10-31 21:30:35 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1079 2013-10-31 21:30:49 <Beldur> gmaxwell: "Transactions that were relayed first by the ip ..." what does this exactly mean? Isnt the one who initiates a transaction the first one who spreads the transaction?
1080 2013-10-31 21:30:56 <Luke-Jr> wizkid057: once upon a time, I hacked pushpool to roll ntime to make work :P
1081 2013-10-31 21:31:10 <wizkid057> Luke-Jr: an hour?!
1082 2013-10-31 21:31:12 <Luke-Jr> Beldur: it means nothing. stop trying to find sanity on blockchain.info
1083 2013-10-31 21:31:19 <Beldur> haha
1084 2013-10-31 21:31:19 <Luke-Jr> wizkid057: I think 2 hours
1085 2013-10-31 21:31:22 <wizkid057> yikes
1086 2013-10-31 21:31:29 <Beldur> ok ^_^
1087 2013-10-31 21:31:46 <gmaxwell> Beldur: I now direct your attention to the channel topic. This isn't bc.i technical support. But to answer your question, it's just whatever system _they_ first saw it from first. They try to attach to a lot of hosts to spy on people but its not very accurate.
1088 2013-10-31 21:31:53 <wizkid057> according to that data, the IP that relays Eligius blocks relays about half of the network
1089 2013-10-31 21:31:59 <wizkid057> on bc.i
1090 2013-10-31 21:32:01 <Beldur> thx I understand
1091 2013-10-31 21:32:09 <gmaxwell> (both because nodes don't relay to all of their peers, and because they can't connect to most nodes)
1092 2013-10-31 21:32:32 markus__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1093 2013-10-31 21:32:36 <wizkid057> interestingly enough every other pool seems to be connected to my super node, which is pretty cool :)
1094 2013-10-31 21:32:40 rdymac has joined
1095 2013-10-31 21:33:16 patcon_ has joined
1096 2013-10-31 21:33:24 _ingsoc has quit (Quit: leaving)
1097 2013-10-31 21:33:38 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1098 2013-10-31 21:35:32 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1099 2013-10-31 21:36:01 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1100 2013-10-31 21:36:36 execut3 has joined
1101 2013-10-31 21:37:03 testnode9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1102 2013-10-31 21:38:28 execut3 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1103 2013-10-31 21:38:32 OrP has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1104 2013-10-31 21:38:55 execut3 has joined
1105 2013-10-31 21:41:32 reizuki__ has joined
1106 2013-10-31 21:41:32 reizuki__ has quit (Changing host)
1107 2013-10-31 21:41:32 reizuki__ has joined
1108 2013-10-31 21:41:41 OrP has joined
1109 2013-10-31 21:42:48 MC1984 has joined
1110 2013-10-31 21:45:55 MC1984 has quit (Client Quit)
1111 2013-10-31 21:46:55 MC1984 has joined
1112 2013-10-31 21:48:53 execut3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1113 2013-10-31 21:49:45 patcon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1114 2013-10-31 21:50:16 patcon has joined
1115 2013-10-31 21:50:29 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1116 2013-10-31 21:51:09 daybyter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1117 2013-10-31 21:51:54 OrP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1118 2013-10-31 21:52:13 OrP has joined
1119 2013-10-31 21:53:59 testicon is now known as testicon^away
1120 2013-10-31 21:54:15 patcon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1121 2013-10-31 21:55:38 Perlboy has quit (Excess Flood)
1122 2013-10-31 21:56:01 Perlboy has joined
1123 2013-10-31 21:57:35 Nopik has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
1124 2013-10-31 21:59:21 pwnobs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1125 2013-10-31 21:59:33 pwnobs has joined
1126 2013-10-31 22:00:29 mark123456721 has joined
1127 2013-10-31 22:01:16 ovidiusoft has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1128 2013-10-31 22:03:09 Application has joined
1129 2013-10-31 22:03:19 soheil has joined
1130 2013-10-31 22:04:15 <soheil> sipa: howdy
1131 2013-10-31 22:07:11 asa1024 has joined
1132 2013-10-31 22:11:40 bbrian has joined
1133 2013-10-31 22:14:24 Wild_Bill has joined
1134 2013-10-31 22:26:12 berndj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1135 2013-10-31 22:30:24 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1136 2013-10-31 22:31:26 <sipa> JimJones: can you ask in channel?
1137 2013-10-31 22:31:31 <sipa> soheil: eh hi
1138 2013-10-31 22:32:07 <JimJones> sipa
1139 2013-10-31 22:32:17 <JimJones> it was about this transaction
1140 2013-10-31 22:32:18 <JimJones> https://blockchain.info/tx/c07d47a5e1d023d0fd2c47c600a4ca178c7a2954754c88f3fb7f729bafb94539
1141 2013-10-31 22:32:49 <JimJones> its been pending for like 5h
1142 2013-10-31 22:32:56 <JimJones> uncomfirmed
1143 2013-10-31 22:33:03 <gmaxwell> 12:59 <JimJones> it has been pending for hours ~4h
1144 2013-10-31 22:33:03 <gmaxwell> 12:59 <JimJones> im getting scared
1145 2013-10-31 22:33:03 <gmaxwell> 13:00 <gmaxwell> you shouldn't be. It's fine. It's only paying 0.0001 BTC/kb so that doesn't get it placed very high in the queue, and its data is kinda large (34 kbytes). It'll be mined fine.
1146 2013-10-31 22:33:23 <sipa> ^
1147 2013-10-31 22:33:24 Anduckkk has joined
1148 2013-10-31 22:33:26 <JimJones> i know gmaxwell just getting a second opinion here =P sorry
1149 2013-10-31 22:33:31 * gmaxwell vows to not answer questions in /msg anymore. Where is that jgarzik autoresponder?
1150 2013-10-31 22:33:37 <JimJones> hahah
1151 2013-10-31 22:33:46 <sipa> jgarzik autoresponder? :o
1152 2013-10-31 22:34:08 gingpark is now known as gingpark1
1153 2013-10-31 22:34:17 <gmaxwell> I thought it was jeff that came up with a nice polite "I do not provide tech support in private message." message :)
1154 2013-10-31 22:34:22 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, this? http://yyz.us/bitcoin/irc-pm-support.html
1155 2013-10-31 22:34:25 <jgarzik> not sure it's polite.
1156 2013-10-31 22:34:27 <jgarzik> ;p
1157 2013-10-31 22:34:46 <gmaxwell> There are degrees of polite.
1158 2013-10-31 22:35:40 <JimJones> its 8/10 polite
1159 2013-10-31 22:36:11 gingpark1 is now known as gingpark
1160 2013-10-31 22:36:24 gingpark is now known as gingpark1
1161 2013-10-31 22:36:26 MoALTz_ has joined
1162 2013-10-31 22:37:03 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1163 2013-10-31 22:39:32 <sipa> ;;genrate 10500
1164 2013-10-31 22:39:34 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10500.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 390928787.638, is 0.013507622333 BTC per day and 0.000562817597209 BTC per hour.
1165 2013-10-31 22:39:37 MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1166 2013-10-31 22:41:58 alexwaters has joined
1167 2013-10-31 22:44:02 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1168 2013-10-31 22:44:08 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1169 2013-10-31 22:44:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: PoW-equivalent age of the chain is barely over a month...
1170 2013-10-31 22:45:02 MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1171 2013-10-31 22:45:23 MoALTz has joined
1172 2013-10-31 22:45:43 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1173 2013-10-31 22:48:06 Grouver has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet)
1174 2013-10-31 22:48:29 <MC1984> thats amaxing, really
1175 2013-10-31 22:49:06 <MC1984> 4 petahash now oh boy
1176 2013-10-31 22:49:24 <MC1984> shit still getting delivered. I bet all of it isnt even bfl lol
1177 2013-10-31 22:50:15 <sipa> my estimate is between 37 and 40 days of PoW
1178 2013-10-31 22:51:12 <sipa> at this rate of growth, we'll hit 10 PH by the end of the year
1179 2013-10-31 22:51:22 [\\\] has joined
1180 2013-10-31 22:51:25 <sipa> sorry, by the end of november
1181 2013-10-31 22:51:42 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1182 2013-10-31 22:51:49 Bog4r7 has joined
1183 2013-10-31 22:51:51 <sipa> wait, what?
1184 2013-10-31 22:52:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: a fun thought excercise it to project the energy usage of 20TH on GPUs (at 2MH/j) to 28nm asics (at 1666MH/j)...
1185 2013-10-31 22:52:46 <MC1984> how much has been shipped, is there an estimate
1186 2013-10-31 22:53:06 <MC1984> exponential growth cant continue for much longer
1187 2013-10-31 22:53:13 <MC1984> or even geometric
1188 2013-10-31 22:53:35 <abrkn> sipa: could the hashing power ever be used for something useful (different algo) like primecoin failed to do? it's a pretty big computer
1189 2013-10-31 22:53:43 roconnor has joined
1190 2013-10-31 22:53:56 <MC1984> securing bitcoin is pretty useful yo
1191 2013-10-31 22:54:02 <gmaxwell> It's not really accurate to call the growth 'exponential': growth isn't causing growth. It's presumably mostly a stepfunction thats been blurred by delivery times.
1192 2013-10-31 22:54:06 <sipa> abrkn: i'm sceptical about that
1193 2013-10-31 22:54:25 <MC1984> maybe those 18 wheelers should be ferrying orphans to disneyland when theyre not moving goods too eh
1194 2013-10-31 22:54:29 <gmaxwell> abrkn: it _is_ something useful, it secures bitcoin.
1195 2013-10-31 22:54:33 <sipa> well, the evolution cpu -> gpu -> fpga -> asic can be consider exponential
1196 2013-10-31 22:55:08 <sipa> but unless QC or something fancy happens, it's likely much less so once everything is asics
1197 2013-10-31 22:55:14 <abrkn> gmaxwell: right, i mean useful in the way of using breaking heat to power the ac in a car (which i heard doesnt work)
1198 2013-10-31 22:55:17 <MC1984> gmaxwell looks exponential on sipas log graphs
1199 2013-10-31 22:55:39 <sipa> locally, it certainly seems exponential
1200 2013-10-31 22:55:53 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yes sure, it has that shape but shape doesn't tell you the underlying process. The word exponential can refer to either.
1201 2013-10-31 22:55:56 <sipa> but i guess what gmaxwell is saying is that there is no
1202 2013-10-31 22:55:56 <MC1984> abrkn yes still seriously waiting for my asic in the form of a wall mounted radiator unit. 100% serious
1203 2013-10-31 22:55:59 <sipa> crap, that
1204 2013-10-31 22:56:28 <MC1984> right now my radiators are full of resistive loads and clay bricks. I want silicon instead
1205 2013-10-31 22:56:31 stalled has joined
1206 2013-10-31 22:56:40 <sipa> there is no assumed model behind it that explains exponential growth
1207 2013-10-31 22:56:52 <MC1984> gmaxwell i admit i was unaware of that
1208 2013-10-31 22:57:01 <sipa> while the observed growth right now is indeed exponential
1209 2013-10-31 22:57:10 <sipa> or rather, an exponential function seems to fit well
1210 2013-10-31 22:57:21 <gmaxwell> That. Exponential as a model here doesn't make sense. Sure, it fits the graph, but lots of things fit graphs.
1211 2013-10-31 22:57:24 <abrkn> i guess sha256'ing your ass off is a lot better than using an electric heater...
1212 2013-10-31 22:57:38 <sipa> abrkn: you can still use it for heat :)
1213 2013-10-31 22:57:44 <MC1984> thermodynamically its exactly the same thing
1214 2013-10-31 22:57:47 <abrkn> sipa: right, thats what i meant :)
1215 2013-10-31 22:57:52 <Bog4r7> Logorithmic?
1216 2013-10-31 22:57:55 <kuzetsa> thanks jgarzik / sipa / gmaxwell (re: IRC privmsg support thinger)
1217 2013-10-31 22:58:00 <kuzetsa> it just came in handy :(
1218 2013-10-31 22:58:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm sure any even order polynomial will also fit pretty well, well, with an order 4+. :)
1219 2013-10-31 22:58:22 <MC1984> whats the cutting edge of waste heat recovery/usage in datacenters?
1220 2013-10-31 22:58:31 <MC1984> or they still just dumping money outside
1221 2013-10-31 22:58:38 <abrkn> sipa: i assume at this time the cost of purchasing an asic unit doesnt make it a very good heater, but production cost is low in big batches?
1222 2013-10-31 22:58:45 <gmaxwell> MC1984: if you're really using electric heating, perhaps you should offer some avalon owners some hosting. :)
1223 2013-10-31 22:58:56 * sipa just turned off his miners
1224 2013-10-31 22:59:06 <abrkn> sipa: too warm?
1225 2013-10-31 22:59:09 <sipa> too loud
1226 2013-10-31 22:59:14 <gmaxwell> I assumed thats what 15:37 < sipa> ;;genrate 10500
1227 2013-10-31 22:59:16 <gmaxwell> was about. :P
1228 2013-10-31 22:59:18 <abrkn> sipa: what did you have?
1229 2013-10-31 22:59:27 <sipa> 2 BFL's at 5 GH/s
1230 2013-10-31 22:59:31 <MC1984> gmaxwell no gas on my property. Night storage heating with a special tariff overnight
1231 2013-10-31 22:59:34 <sipa> and a bunch of erupters :)
1232 2013-10-31 22:59:46 <MC1984> truth be told, i cant really afford heating at all right now
1233 2013-10-31 22:59:50 <abrkn> sipa: how's your profit/loss on mining in over the years?
1234 2013-10-31 22:59:59 <sipa> abrkn: that's a hard question
1235 2013-10-31 23:00:03 <Bog4r7> I had to move my Little Single out of my office. Way loud.
1236 2013-10-31 23:00:08 <MC1984> so i wear a beanie hat instead
1237 2013-10-31 23:00:13 <sipa> as it depends on whether you count coins that aren't sold immediately in
1238 2013-10-31 23:00:15 <abrkn> i did it the easy way. bought a shit ton of bitcoins at $10, wait, success
1239 2013-10-31 23:00:18 <sipa> or consider that speculation
1240 2013-10-31 23:00:40 alexwaters has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1241 2013-10-31 23:00:44 <abrkn> sipa: would need to assume you sold as you mined, i guess
1242 2013-10-31 23:00:46 <MC1984> but if my heater was also making me some moeny back, maybe i could
1243 2013-10-31 23:01:07 <sipa> abrkn: close to break-even but probably positive in that case
1244 2013-10-31 23:01:28 <abrkn> sipa: better than most, then, i guess
1245 2013-10-31 23:01:43 <sipa> i first mined when nethash < 100 GH/s :)
1246 2013-10-31 23:01:45 <abrkn> i always wonder how many very early adopters actually kept the coins
1247 2013-10-31 23:02:06 <sipa> i'm sure gmaxwell mined earlier?
1248 2013-10-31 23:02:19 <jgarzik> I wish I still had that 15,000 I gave away as dev bounties :)
1249 2013-10-31 23:02:30 sensorii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1250 2013-10-31 23:02:31 <abrkn> there are screenshots on the forum of people with enormous wallets in 2010, "how many bitcoins do you have?"-threads
1251 2013-10-31 23:02:33 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: certantly didn't get that much for them.
1252 2013-10-31 23:02:51 <abrkn> and the guy that ran the amazon cluster cpu mining at some point
1253 2013-10-31 23:02:57 * jgarzik intentionally tried to /use/ his bitcoins in the early days, trying to build the economy
1254 2013-10-31 23:02:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: I dunno what the net hash was when I started in earnest (I mean I mined with diff was 1 too, but lost those coins).
1255 2013-10-31 23:03:14 sensorii has joined
1256 2013-10-31 23:03:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: do you remember what the difficulty was?
1257 2013-10-31 23:03:25 <jgarzik> I certainly CPU-mined several blocks in July 2010
1258 2013-10-31 23:03:26 dgolds has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1259 2013-10-31 23:03:28 <sipa> gmaxwell: iirc the first difficulty increment i remember was to 12000 :)
1260 2013-10-31 23:04:09 <MC1984> #bitcoin-OGs
1261 2013-10-31 23:04:17 <gmaxwell> I suspect thats before the first I remember.
1262 2013-10-31 23:04:17 <sipa> og?
1263 2013-10-31 23:04:49 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh, which pools existed? :)
1264 2013-10-31 23:04:49 <MC1984> original gangster, i believe
1265 2013-10-31 23:05:01 Krellan__ has joined
1266 2013-10-31 23:05:06 Beldur has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1267 2013-10-31 23:09:10 wumpus has quit (No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1268 2013-10-31 23:09:25 wump has joined
1269 2013-10-31 23:09:26 <abrkn> we got an email to customer support on the exchange today from a woman who had bought "a bitcoin machine" and had questions regarding two-factor...
1270 2013-10-31 23:09:41 <abrkn> she seriously typed "bitcoin machine"
1271 2013-10-31 23:09:44 wumpus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1272 2013-10-31 23:09:51 <MC1984> hmm didint know you were an old time miner
1273 2013-10-31 23:09:54 <sipa> what was she talking about?
1274 2013-10-31 23:10:02 <abrkn> sipa: god knows, ill try to find the ticket
1275 2013-10-31 23:10:14 <abrkn> sipa: i assume it was a gumball machine with a sticker on it saying "BITCOIN MACHINE"
1276 2013-10-31 23:10:52 <sipa> loi
1277 2013-10-31 23:11:26 <abrkn> maybe qr codes come out and im the idiot
1278 2013-10-31 23:11:43 <sipa> maybe she bought a bitcoin atm :p
1279 2013-10-31 23:12:19 berndj has joined
1280 2013-10-31 23:12:21 <MC1984> do those things operate on zero conf?
1281 2013-10-31 23:12:26 <sipa> no clue
1282 2013-10-31 23:12:44 bitspill has joined
1283 2013-10-31 23:12:55 <MC1984> palm prints though wtf
1284 2013-10-31 23:13:14 sensorii has joined
1285 2013-10-31 23:13:33 <groglogic> I saw a Bitcoin Machine listed on Ebay once. clicked through. look at the photo. it was an Nvidia card
1286 2013-10-31 23:13:38 <MC1984> when i use a cash machine i use the outside of my knuckles, im not putting my hand flat on what is frequently a tramps toilet
1287 2013-10-31 23:13:51 <abrkn> sipa: this is a copy paste: http://bit.ly/HhXeRx
1288 2013-10-31 23:14:10 <groglogic> MC1984: wot?
1289 2013-10-31 23:14:34 <MC1984> british cash machines stink of piss 40% of the time, dont know about yours
1290 2013-10-31 23:14:48 <gmaxwell> MC1984: why would people pee on an atm?!
1291 2013-10-31 23:15:04 <gmaxwell> no, atm's in the US don't get peed on, at least not in my expirence.
1292 2013-10-31 23:15:26 <abrkn> gmaxwell: i for one pee on atms all the time. just the right amount of privacy
1293 2013-10-31 23:15:27 <MC1984> because theyre on the way home from town and its funny when youre drunk i suppose
1294 2013-10-31 23:16:01 <abrkn> in norway too people pee on atms
1295 2013-10-31 23:16:15 <gmaxwell> abrkn: but thats because the atms are frozen and you need to unthaw the keys!
1296 2013-10-31 23:16:17 Mikej0h has joined
1297 2013-10-31 23:16:27 <groglogic> note to self: Norwegian ATM's, not even once
1298 2013-10-31 23:16:37 <MC1984> its possible the inebriated genuinaly think theyre using urinal
1299 2013-10-31 23:16:47 <abrkn> gmaxwell: that's accurate
1300 2013-10-31 23:17:20 <abrkn> im afraid to show my face at the office now. every single day its: "hey, you heard about this guy who bought an apartment for $27 of bitcoins?"
1301 2013-10-31 23:17:35 <abrkn> emails too...
1302 2013-10-31 23:18:08 OrP has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1303 2013-10-31 23:18:13 <groglogic> 27 USD? or 27 BTC?
1304 2013-10-31 23:18:31 <abrkn> groglogic: he claims to have bought 5k btc for $27 in 2010(?)
1305 2013-10-31 23:18:57 <MC1984> jesus fuck why didnt i buy
1306 2013-10-31 23:19:14 <abrkn> MC1984: because it wasnt worth shit at the time? :)
1307 2013-10-31 23:19:33 <groglogic> me too. i remember when usd/btc was like $10
1308 2013-10-31 23:19:38 <MC1984> EXACTLY WHY DIDNT I BUY
1309 2013-10-31 23:19:51 <abrkn> groglogic: that's called january
1310 2013-10-31 23:19:58 <berndj> sigh, guys, you're reminding me of that time in 2009ish where i briefly looked into bitcoin and then it fell off my radar again
1311 2013-10-31 23:20:04 <groglogic> abrkn: ouch. haha
1312 2013-10-31 23:20:17 <groglogic> note to self: when gitcoin is announced, buy all of them. ALL OF THEM!!!
1313 2013-10-31 23:20:25 <MC1984> i was shaking like a leaf after wiring a decent chunk of change (for me) essentially into the internet to buy some back in early 2012 or whatever
1314 2013-10-31 23:20:45 <abrkn> berndj: tell me about it. i have a github repo thats a bitcoin exchange, but i couldnt find much resources and quit it. thats from like 2011
1315 2013-10-31 23:20:51 <MC1984> as soon as i did it i thought "fuck ive been scammed"
1316 2013-10-31 23:21:21 <MC1984> 'im one of those poeple you read about who wires moeny to nigeria'
1317 2013-10-31 23:22:33 <groglogic> to be fair, I think there's still a lot of risk in putting signif "real" money into Bitcoin yet; due to risk of, say, US gov/banks and their allies going after it, causing problems; never discount the power of men with guns
1318 2013-10-31 23:22:37 peper has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1319 2013-10-31 23:23:17 <MC1984> people who have dumped all thier liquid assets into it are crazy still imo
1320 2013-10-31 23:23:25 zer0def has joined
1321 2013-10-31 23:23:59 <MC1984> but maybe at this point 15-20% of your assets might be justifiable if you are adventurous
1322 2013-10-31 23:24:13 <groglogic> MC1984: agreed (tho stares wistfully at the hypothetically Bitcoin-bought mansions)
1323 2013-10-31 23:24:21 <abrkn> MC1984: you calling me crazy?
1324 2013-10-31 23:24:44 <MC1984> bitcoin is here to stay barring something catastrophic, imo. I doubt it will be the hippy democratic decentralised vision of it though.
1325 2013-10-31 23:25:02 <groglogic> abrkn: he's calling you crazy; unless you are one of the Bitcoinaires; then he's calling you friend; on your phone; at all hours of the night
1326 2013-10-31 23:25:09 apurplehorse has joined
1327 2013-10-31 23:25:12 <abrkn> groglogic: hah
1328 2013-10-31 23:25:15 <MC1984> there are too many people who just want bitcoin to 'sell out' so they can get thiers
1329 2013-10-31 23:26:02 mark123456721 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1330 2013-10-31 23:26:06 <MC1984> so lots of people get in ont he ground floor of thier own private paypal, but the world remains largely unimproved
1331 2013-10-31 23:26:07 <groglogic> MC1984: agreed but it's the "barring something catastrophic"; any entity with wepaons, legal right to use them, and the ability to make/interpret laws, can cause you catastrophes, however
1332 2013-10-31 23:26:11 <MC1984> just the way i see it going
1333 2013-10-31 23:26:48 <MC1984> groglogic i think the authorities would rather borg the system than try and outright ban it
1334 2013-10-31 23:27:12 <groglogic> MC1984: agreed. a lot of people want to maximize reward/risk by getting in, then cashing out, before a hypothetical hammer comes down; this may be a wise strategy; but it causes a bubble vector force
1335 2013-10-31 23:27:15 <MC1984> after all, with the right guidance, its a perfect financial panopticon
1336 2013-10-31 23:27:19 <berndj> groglogic, i keep trying to "think like a regulator" and i don't see any realistic scenarios where they can shut it down
1337 2013-10-31 23:27:37 <berndj> i rather see their attacks in the form of "embrace and extend"
1338 2013-10-31 23:27:51 ewoly has joined
1339 2013-10-31 23:27:52 <MC1984> maybe if coinjoin for instance was default and opportunistic, but i can see that shit being regulated out becasue terrists
1340 2013-10-31 23:28:16 <gmaxwell> MC1984: its hard to regulate out otherwise invisible fully decenteralized behavior.
1341 2013-10-31 23:28:31 <gmaxwell> (note: I said hard, not impossible)
1342 2013-10-31 23:28:38 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1343 2013-10-31 23:28:52 <groglogic> MC9184: agreed. plus there is a theory out there that if it was not created" by a government, it will at least be adaopted by one/some, precisely because it gives another channel for wiring money around, for black ops; to give just one example, the US CIA has a history of black ops, and the NSA is known to have massive computing power at its disposal; 1 + 1 = ?
1344 2013-10-31 23:28:59 <MC1984> its hard to stamp out drug use that happens in private but they still try, and cause untold damage in the process.
1345 2013-10-31 23:29:58 apurplehorse has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds)
1346 2013-10-31 23:30:12 apurplehorse has joined
1347 2013-10-31 23:30:31 <MC1984> they dont need bitcoin for black money. They have cargo planes and pallets of cash
1348 2013-10-31 23:30:44 <MC1984> of which as much can be printed as required
1349 2013-10-31 23:31:53 <groglogic> one endgame is for the US gov to say "okay, Bitcoin is legal; and we have no plans to attack it; however, any value transfers using it are still subject to IRS, and must go through a bank-controlled exchange/intermediary"; so, the basica protocol is allowed, but true p2p goes away, requiring (legally, on paper) everybody to do P2B2P (where B is gov-regulated/owned bank); otherwise men with guns go after you; and
1350 2013-10-31 23:31:53 <groglogic> they're clearly putting in place the ability to snoop on all Internet traffic for "other reasons" anyway (NSA/Snowden). that is one endgame possible
1351 2013-10-31 23:32:38 <MC1984> anyone else sort of wish there wernt so many people trying to get rich OFF bitcoin, instead of just USING bitcoin
1352 2013-10-31 23:32:48 testicon^away is now known as testicon
1353 2013-10-31 23:33:38 <MC1984> groglogic it happened to skype. All supernodes are now hosted in MS cloud.
1354 2013-10-31 23:33:41 <berndj> MC1984, yes, it seems like half the bitcoin economy is in selling bitcoin-themed t shirts and exchanges and the like - a bit navel-gazing-ey
1355 2013-10-31 23:34:07 <MC1984> and that was a p2p system that just allowed people to talk to each other in private. What the fuck does bitcoin enable?
1356 2013-10-31 23:34:27 <groglogic> MC1984: true, but it's cheaper to send 1M USD across the world via BTC than a cargo plane with a pallet of cash; add things like Tor, TrueCrypt, state-of-the-art encryption, lots of hyperparanoid cover-your-tracks steps, etc. plus they can always blame certain transfers on hackers (think how Iran-Contra could have happened if there was a Bitoin-like way to move money, rather than drugs-for-cash-for-missiles-for-h
1357 2013-10-31 23:34:27 <groglogic> ostages-for, etc.etc.)
1358 2013-10-31 23:35:41 <MC1984> well, i suppose proxy wars funded via bitcoins would be the ultimate endorsement and legitimisation........
1359 2013-10-31 23:36:11 <groglogic> MC1984: at a minimum, it allows faster transfers of money, and for smaller fees, than doing the equiv with USD via banks or wire transfer services; also trying to make/take payments for "naughty" grey area products/services (like adult stuff, etc.) is much harder with USD/banks than it is with BTC
1360 2013-10-31 23:36:16 zer0def has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1361 2013-10-31 23:37:09 dgolds has joined
1362 2013-10-31 23:37:34 <MC1984> oh lol this is -dev......
1363 2013-10-31 23:38:03 <MC1984> yeah i thought it was unusually lucid tonight
1364 2013-10-31 23:38:27 <groglogic> yeah I feel bad talking about this topic here :) sorry to serious people and developers (of which I'm one, just not for Bitcoin)
1365 2013-10-31 23:38:56 sustrik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1366 2013-10-31 23:39:28 <MC1984> mods are asleep, post some tinfoil theories
1367 2013-10-31 23:39:55 <groglogic> I wonder if someone with nick "satoshi" ever joined this channel. just to see what happened. I picture this flurry of NSA activity, nmap, MITM attacks, social engineering, phishing, etc etc, haha
1368 2013-10-31 23:40:27 zer0def has joined
1369 2013-10-31 23:40:30 BlueMatt is now known as therealsatoshi
1370 2013-10-31 23:40:34 <therealsatoshi> groglogic: happens all the time
1371 2013-10-31 23:40:36 <berndj> groglogic, there are satoshis joining every other day iirc
1372 2013-10-31 23:40:46 <MC1984> I guarantee* you no one has ever trolled as satoshi in here
1373 2013-10-31 23:40:54 <MC1984> *guarantee not cast iron
1374 2013-10-31 23:41:00 <groglogic> tinfoil theory: Bitcoin is just a very elaborate way of indirectly promoting the TV series The Walking Dead. very elaborate. and indirect
1375 2013-10-31 23:41:22 therealsatoshi is now known as BlueMatt
1376 2013-10-31 23:41:28 <groglogic> nick satoshi
1377 2013-10-31 23:41:36 groglogic is now known as satoshi_
1378 2013-10-31 23:41:39 <MC1984> i knew it was you all along BlueMatt
1379 2013-10-31 23:41:41 dgolds has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1380 2013-10-31 23:41:41 satoshi_ is now known as groglogic
1381 2013-10-31 23:41:48 <groglogic> i hope i don't regret that, haha
1382 2013-10-31 23:41:48 <BlueMatt> MC1984: shit, how'd you know?
1383 2013-10-31 23:41:57 Kart has joined
1384 2013-10-31 23:42:13 <MC1984> youve been trying too hard with the derpy act for too long, hiding in plain sight
1385 2013-10-31 23:42:20 Jorge_ has joined
1386 2013-10-31 23:42:29 <BlueMatt> heh
1387 2013-10-31 23:42:42 Jorge_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1388 2013-10-31 23:42:42 Kart has quit (Client Quit)
1389 2013-10-31 23:43:00 groglogic is now known as satoshi-gesundhe
1390 2013-10-31 23:43:08 satoshi-gesundhe is now known as groglogic
1391 2013-10-31 23:45:10 <berndj> to me the mysterious nature of satoshi is my big worry. uncertain provenance
1392 2013-10-31 23:46:03 <warren> hmm, is wump wumpus?
1393 2013-10-31 23:46:04 <MC1984> open source so irrelevant
1394 2013-10-31 23:46:04 <groglogic> in all seriousness, if anyone is looking for a senior programmer to build something Bitcoin related (ideally with a Linux/Python/Java/C stack), for pay, give me a shout
1395 2013-10-31 23:47:16 <groglogic> berndj: agreed and not; one argument is that the algorithms and design stands alone; another argument is that in the most Occam's Razor friendly scenaior (where, there's a real guy, maybe he's Japanese even, and he's just choosing to be secretive) then he'd have very good reasons to be secretive (personal physical safety, legal safety, etc.)
1396 2013-10-31 23:48:30 <berndj> groglogic: i'm sure US patents would be happy to cover the algos and design
1397 2013-10-31 23:50:16 <groglogic> berndj: well what I meant is that regardless of whether Bitcoin creator's purpsoe was benevolent or malevolent, the algos & impls standalone in terms of their effect, their vulnerabilities, their behavior; they can be independently analyzed by anybody, improved, fixed, etc. it has no secrets, speaking in general terms
1398 2013-10-31 23:50:44 <berndj> you mean like DES's s-boxes?
1399 2013-10-31 23:51:21 <groglogic> are those machines or a hypothetical attack approach?
1400 2013-10-31 23:51:29 <gmaxwell> berndj: having to trust satoshi would completely defeat the point.
1401 2013-10-31 23:51:39 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
1402 2013-10-31 23:51:43 * gmaxwell references groglogic's response
1403 2013-10-31 23:52:13 abrkn\ has joined
1404 2013-10-31 23:52:20 <diki> groglogic:Had my knowledge of C been 10 times better than it is now, I probably would've applied. I will stick to game development for now.
1405 2013-10-31 23:52:41 <gmaxwell> the whole point of the system was to eliminate having to depend on trust. You're not supposted to trust satoshi. In fact, you should assume him malicious and go out and seek confirmation of bitcoin's validity that doesn't depend on just trusting some authority to have done the right thing... as we all know how often authories have failed the public.
1406 2013-10-31 23:52:56 <groglogic> diki: i didn't understand your comment
1407 2013-10-31 23:53:13 <MC1984> i run compiled binaries though so i trust someone
1408 2013-10-31 23:53:19 <diki> groglogic:Oh, I misunderstood.
1409 2013-10-31 23:53:24 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1410 2013-10-31 23:53:47 yano has quit (Ping timeout: 630 seconds)
1411 2013-10-31 23:53:54 <gmaxwell> MC1984: if you check the gitian signatures you can at least trust of collective of several someones.
1412 2013-10-31 23:54:12 <MC1984> its never been obvious how to do that
1413 2013-10-31 23:55:15 <BlueMatt> we've never done a real gitian release...
1414 2013-10-31 23:55:17 <groglogic> I no longer trust the "wisdom" or "belevolence" of the US government, that's for sure; so I don't require a belief in an alternative system is 100% wise or 100% belevolent or flawless; it only has to be sufficiently attractive and "better" (in some dimensions, the more the better) than the default alternative; the US gov and USD system looks like it's run by mad men
1415 2013-10-31 23:56:10 <MC1984> the way the USG was ostensibly set up is so that its fully acknowledged you dont ahve to trust them
1416 2013-10-31 23:56:34 <MC1984> but thats been failing in quite spectacular ways
1417 2013-10-31 23:56:41 abrkn\ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1418 2013-10-31 23:57:02 hnz has joined
1419 2013-10-31 23:57:13 <groglogic> except with things like, say, the recent NSA revelations, then, at a minimum, we really do need to trust them; more than ever they now have the power to engage in secret blackmail and insider trading, market manipulation, etc.
1420 2013-10-31 23:57:42 <berndj> gmaxwell, i'm not so much concerned by whether secp256k1 has some deep hole only the NSA knows about, as Intellectual Ventures showing up with SCO as their newly bought subsidiary, saying satoshi was their employee and therefore all your coinbase are belong to them
1421 2013-10-31 23:58:15 <MC1984> well thats what the constitution was for, turns out if you break it nothing magical happens to put things right, someone has to make it happen. And no one will
1422 2013-10-31 23:58:21 <groglogic> MC1984: agreed. so it's not a question of whether we can trust Bitcoin perfectly 100%; because we dont' have any alternatives we can instead trust 100% perfectly; we can only try to choose the lesser evil, or hedge our bets, or both
1423 2013-10-31 23:58:29 <gmaxwell> berndj: wouldn't matter if he was.
1424 2013-10-31 23:58:33 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin-usg
1425 2013-10-31 23:58:49 <MC1984> yeah ok
1426 2013-10-31 23:59:27 <sipa> usg?
1427 2013-10-31 23:59:34 <MC1984> im not shitting on you. US is a beautiful spectacular country, one of the best
1428 2013-10-31 23:59:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: us gov't