1 2013-11-02 00:01:22 <gulli> Is it alright (safe) to use BitcoinJ to move large numbers of Bitcoins?
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6 2013-11-02 00:11:36 <edcba> large or not doesn't change anything if they are all in same wallet
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19 2013-11-02 00:36:24 <gulli> you are not tied to using maven if you are using BitcoinJ, are you?
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21 2013-11-02 00:37:27 <ahmedbodi> i dont think so
22 2013-11-02 00:37:32 <ahmedbodi> it makes it easier to use maven tho
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33 2013-11-02 00:55:03 <dobry-den> On testnet3, when I get the first 2000 blockheaders via :getheaders, the first hash sent back is indeed block#1. but i can't figure out what the 2000th hash is: https://www.refheap.com/20390
34 2013-11-02 00:55:57 <dobry-den> (context being that i get a parse error somewhere between 1 and 2000 and the first thing i did was look at first and last hash)
35 2013-11-02 00:56:18 <dobry-den> that 2000th hash doesnt match http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/0000000005bdbddb59a3cd33b69db94fa67669c41d9d32751512b5d7b68c71cf
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37 2013-11-02 00:57:36 <dobry-den> it doesnt have the signature of a blockheader
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39 2013-11-02 01:00:30 <lianj> that payload doesn't look right
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42 2013-11-02 01:02:42 <dobry-den> lianj: here are the first 4 bytes (in hex) of the first 2000 headers. https://www.refheap.com/20391
43 2013-11-02 01:03:06 <dobry-den> 01000000 most of the time with contiguous block sof headers with weird versions
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45 2013-11-02 01:04:06 <lianj> it should always have 1 or 2 as version
46 2013-11-02 01:04:43 <lianj> seems to happen in same intervals. you are splitting/parsing them wrong
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48 2013-11-02 01:08:14 <dobry-den> it's just a hex-dump from bitcoind on testnet split every 81 bytes. what could be wrong?
49 2013-11-02 01:08:26 <maaku> lianj: there are non-(1,2) blocks
50 2013-11-02 01:12:37 <lianj> maaku: no there aren't. its all version 1 for the first 2000 blocks from testnet3 i just checked
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53 2013-11-02 01:16:10 <lianj> dobry-den: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#headers "Note that the block headers in this packet include a transaction count (a var_int, so there can be more than 81 bytes per header) as opposed to the block headers which are sent to miners."
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55 2013-11-02 01:16:45 <lianj> so splitting by 81 doesn't work
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62 2013-11-02 01:21:26 <dobry-den> lianj: https://www.refheap.com/20392 full hex dump at 81 byte width.
63 2013-11-02 01:22:00 <dobry-den> it sends back 2000 headers and a total of 81*2000 bytes.
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82 2013-11-02 01:44:56 <lianj> dobry-den: somethings wrong :P
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84 2013-11-02 01:48:44 <super3> hello
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99 2013-11-02 02:04:11 <dongshengcn> What do people think about the new startup Circle? http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/30/5356809/jeremy-allaire-launches-circle.html
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209 2013-11-02 05:53:06 <warren> I figured out what's wrong with CC + watchonly, not exactly sure how to fix it yet.
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212 2013-11-02 06:01:14 <Luke-Jr> warren: ?
213 2013-11-02 06:01:22 <warren> brb
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236 2013-11-02 07:04:51 <HaltingState> I am going to start working on telehash; this is amazing, it could replace tcp/ip
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249 2013-11-02 07:35:33 <HaltingState> I am building a golang wrapper around libsexp256; is there an easy way to get golang to compile/build the .so? or what should i do https://github.com/haltingstate/secp256
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251 2013-11-02 07:40:12 <dobry-den> HaltingState: there a reason you want to wrap? what are go-bitcoin impls using? here's random example https://github.com/piotrnar/gocoin/blob/master/btc/ec256k1.go
252 2013-11-02 07:40:44 <dobry-den> i would think someone's already wrapped a more definitive lib
253 2013-11-02 07:43:43 <HaltingState> dobry-den, this is the lib being used in bitcoin mainline soon
254 2013-11-02 07:43:53 <dobry-den> oh cool
255 2013-11-02 07:43:56 <HaltingState> i am getting it working in go and getting it working on 32 bit arm processor
256 2013-11-02 07:44:05 <HaltingState> for hardware wallets
257 2013-11-02 07:44:56 <HaltingState> and i need a go wrapper because i am trying to get telehash to drop RSA and use secp256 /bitcoin crypto
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293 2013-11-02 10:06:05 <HaltingState> I am doing this proticol for the telehash project; its quantum computer resistant and easy to implement in C https://raw.github.com/haltingstate/telehash/master/README.md
294 2013-11-02 10:06:41 <HaltingState> i am trying to get him to drop RSA and standardize on the bitcoin crypto primitives
295 2013-11-02 10:07:31 <Apocalyptic> HaltingState, seems sound to me
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297 2013-11-02 10:08:05 <HaltingState> Apocalyptic, you like my axioms?
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299 2013-11-02 10:09:10 <HaltingState> i was getting more and more aspie as i was writing that and towards bottom i was almost writing in lisp
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329 2013-11-02 11:58:14 <wiretapped> HaltingState: LOL
330 2013-11-02 11:58:27 <wiretapped> your first axoim is fail
331 2013-11-02 11:59:15 <wiretapped> if a small number of people knew how to break secp256k1, they wouldn't necessarily get caught stealing bitcoin
332 2013-11-02 12:00:12 <wiretapped> if they allowed themselves to be caught in a way that revealed an ecc break, it would destroy the value of the bitcoin they stole
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334 2013-11-02 12:02:21 <wiretapped> i guess that involves both of your axioms
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336 2013-11-02 12:06:47 <null> you've got to be kidding me http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/01/new-plugin-allows-developers-to-turn-ios-devices-into-bitcoin-mining-bots/
337 2013-11-02 12:09:09 crank has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
338 2013-11-02 12:11:02 <HaltingState> wiretapped, no
339 2013-11-02 12:11:19 <HaltingState> would not be a small number
340 2013-11-02 12:11:38 <HaltingState> the chinese would have stolen the source code from the NSA and would be stealing bitcoins
341 2013-11-02 12:11:40 <HaltingState> seriouesly
342 2013-11-02 12:12:57 mappum has joined
343 2013-11-02 12:14:18 <HaltingState> wiretapped, RSA (company) cant even secure their yubi keys... and lockeed martin is getting their missles stolen by chinese after they broke into RSA Etc..
344 2013-11-02 12:14:45 <sipa> HaltingState: make libsecp256k1.so
345 2013-11-02 12:15:23 <wiretapped> HaltingState: you say "we would know". what do you think would happen then?
346 2013-11-02 12:15:31 viperhr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
347 2013-11-02 12:15:35 <HaltingState> sipa, cgo should not need the .so really; it shoudl compile it but cant figure out how to make it do it
348 2013-11-02 12:16:01 reisha has joined
349 2013-11-02 12:16:12 <sipa> lianj, dobry-den: that entry is wrong; it always sends 0 transactions along with the header
350 2013-11-02 12:16:22 <wiretapped> there is a pretty huge incentive for the hypothetical secp256k1 breaker to keep their capability secret
351 2013-11-02 12:16:56 <HaltingState> NO
352 2013-11-02 12:16:57 <sipa> dobry-den, lianj: though it wouldn't be incorrect to encode that zero as more than 1 byte in varint
353 2013-11-02 12:17:00 <wiretapped> HaltingState: am i reading this correctly that you're talking about using secp256k1 for encryption?
354 2013-11-02 12:17:11 <HaltingState> they would steal mtgox's bitcoin and no one would know but gox
355 2013-11-02 12:17:29 <wiretapped> HaltingState: then we wouldn't know
356 2013-11-02 12:17:34 <HaltingState> or would say "I told you show"
357 2013-11-02 12:17:43 <HaltingState> "i told you so" but eventually it would come out
358 2013-11-02 12:18:45 <wiretapped> "eventually it would come out" is very different than "if it is broken now we would know already"
359 2013-11-02 12:19:00 <wiretapped> which is what your axioms imply
360 2013-11-02 12:20:00 <wiretapped> i agree that such a break couldn't be kept secret forever, but I think it could and would be for a long time
361 2013-11-02 12:20:35 reisha has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
362 2013-11-02 12:21:48 Grouver has joined
363 2013-11-02 12:26:00 <wiretapped> HaltingState: are you familiar with ECDH? I think that is what you're looking for
364 2013-11-02 12:31:13 daybyter has joined
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371 2013-11-02 13:19:11 <HaltingState> wiretapped, no
372 2013-11-02 13:19:21 <HaltingState> this proticol has no hand shake; cant use more than one packet
373 2013-11-02 13:19:27 <HaltingState> maintains connections with thousands of servers
374 2013-11-02 13:19:38 <HaltingState> two, four round hand shakes wont work
375 2013-11-02 13:20:26 reisha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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377 2013-11-02 13:27:41 GingerGeek is now known as GingerGeek[Away]
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383 2013-11-02 13:42:48 <gulli_> ANyone here use BitcoinJ? Saw this in one tutorial: "Note that BitCoinJ wallet files are not compatible with wallet files created by the official Bitcoin client. "
384 2013-11-02 13:42:52 <gulli_> This is from early 2012 though
385 2013-11-02 13:43:22 <gulli_> wondering, can I not import a wallet.dat file generated with BitcoinJ to my Bitcoin-qt wallet?
386 2013-11-02 13:43:28 <sipa> no
387 2013-11-02 13:43:36 <sipa> you can export/import individual keys, though
388 2013-11-02 13:44:11 <gulli_> you mean manually then?
389 2013-11-02 13:44:37 <sipa> depends on what you call manually
390 2013-11-02 13:44:43 <sipa> you don't have to go peek in the files
391 2013-11-02 13:44:59 <sipa> bitcoind/bitcoin-qt have an dumpprivkey/importprivkey command
392 2013-11-02 13:45:05 elgrecoFL has quit (Excess Flood)
393 2013-11-02 13:45:37 elgrecoFL has joined
394 2013-11-02 13:45:37 <gulli_> Ok I'll look into that
395 2013-11-02 13:45:53 <gulli_> Is BitcoinJ used for anything big in the Bitcoin world now?
396 2013-11-02 13:46:04 <gulli_> Just wondering if I should still use it or not for my web-app
397 2013-11-02 13:47:51 <sipa> bitcoin wallet for android and multibit use it
398 2013-11-02 13:47:55 <sipa> as well as some websites, iirc
399 2013-11-02 13:48:15 <gulli_> ok
400 2013-11-02 13:48:28 <sipa> talk to TD[away] or BlueMatt
401 2013-11-02 13:48:38 gingpark1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
402 2013-11-02 13:48:58 <gulli_> I might do that
403 2013-11-02 13:48:58 <gulli_> thanks :)
404 2013-11-02 13:49:31 _ingsoc has joined
405 2013-11-02 13:49:35 gingpark1 has joined
406 2013-11-02 13:49:52 <gulli_> I'm creating a small exchange, been developing with the play framework, hoping BitcoinJ can be used to
407 2013-11-02 13:50:47 Zarutian has joined
408 2013-11-02 13:54:15 <gulli_> So is testnet3 usually used now?
409 2013-11-02 13:54:17 _ingsoc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
410 2013-11-02 13:54:32 <gulli_> instead of "0" and 1?
411 2013-11-02 13:54:46 _ingsoc has joined
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413 2013-11-02 13:55:27 <wiretapped> HaltingState: DH doesn't require any roundtrips
414 2013-11-02 13:55:35 <wiretapped> HaltingState: http://cr.yp.to/ecdh.html
415 2013-11-02 13:55:47 ds is now known as away!ds@gateway/shell/cloudant/x-kqsgikodvlabxlrd|dongshengcn
416 2013-11-02 13:56:08 <sipa> gulli_: testnet3 was introduced in 0.7.0
417 2013-11-02 13:56:32 <sipa> and there is no support for older testnets since then
418 2013-11-02 13:57:11 <gulli_> yup, and thats the main test network now, right?
419 2013-11-02 13:57:27 macboz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
420 2013-11-02 13:57:34 <sipa> HaltingState: if you write a Go-wrapper for libsecp256k1, i'll be happy to merge it
421 2013-11-02 13:57:44 <gulli_> ok thanks
422 2013-11-02 13:57:47 <sipa> gulli_: yes indeed
423 2013-11-02 13:59:18 <wiretapped> HaltingState: (assuming one side has prior knowledge of the other side's public key)
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437 2013-11-02 14:14:07 <HaltingState> sipa, how do i get go to build the .so
438 2013-11-02 14:14:21 <HaltingState> it should just compile the .c file and just work but i never got that working
439 2013-11-02 14:14:41 <HaltingState> sipa, i am also going to get libsecp256k1 on 32 bit arm/arduino
440 2013-11-02 14:15:27 <HaltingState> i am doing hardware wallet and need it working on arduino duo and will get it working in golang
441 2013-11-02 14:16:05 <sipa> HaltingState: make libsecp256k1.so
442 2013-11-02 14:16:06 dongshengcn is now known as ds|away
443 2013-11-02 14:16:13 <sipa> there is an explicit entry for it in the makefile even...
444 2013-11-02 14:16:16 reisha has joined
445 2013-11-02 14:16:22 <HaltingState> sipa, how do i get golang package thing to do it automaticly?
446 2013-11-02 14:16:29 <sipa> oh
447 2013-11-02 14:16:31 <sipa> i have no clue about go
448 2013-11-02 14:16:58 <sipa> sorry, i missed the 'go' in your question, must be because it's such a generic word in english :)
449 2013-11-02 14:17:00 <HaltingState> cgo has a compiler for C and it should work but will see if it can do make files
450 2013-11-02 14:17:18 <sipa> you can just only compile secp256k1.c
451 2013-11-02 14:17:22 <sipa> there are no other modules
452 2013-11-02 14:17:37 <HaltingState> i know!
453 2013-11-02 14:17:42 <HaltingState> and it should just work, so wtf
454 2013-11-02 14:17:47 <HaltingState> one second, let me try this again
455 2013-11-02 14:20:18 <HaltingState> ./secp256k1/src/impl/field.h:17:2: error: #error "Please select field implementation"
456 2013-11-02 14:20:18 <HaltingState> #error "Please select field implementation"
457 2013-11-02 14:20:22 <HaltingState> ./secp256k1/src/impl/../num.h:13:2: error: #error "Please select num implementation"
458 2013-11-02 14:20:23 <HaltingState> #error "Please select num implementation"
459 2013-11-02 14:20:29 <HaltingState> sipa, i fixed this before with some defines
460 2013-11-02 14:20:30 <HaltingState> hmm
461 2013-11-02 14:20:34 <sipa> you need to define which field/num implementation to use
462 2013-11-02 14:20:37 reisha has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
463 2013-11-02 14:20:47 <HaltingState> which one is best? 60 or 56?
464 2013-11-02 14:20:50 <sipa> depending on whether you have gmp available, or 128-bit integer math
465 2013-11-02 14:20:58 <sipa> benchmark :)
466 2013-11-02 14:21:11 <HaltingState> i have to hardcode it
467 2013-11-02 14:21:37 Polyatomic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
468 2013-11-02 14:21:39 <sipa> i doubt you can use 5x56 or 5x64 on a 32-bit system
469 2013-11-02 14:21:48 <sipa> 10x28 should always work
470 2013-11-02 14:22:04 <HaltingState> definately gmp; ideally staticly compiled in
471 2013-11-02 14:22:13 <sipa> if you have gmp, the gmp-based field is likely faster
472 2013-11-02 14:23:13 <HaltingState> #cgo CFLAGS: -std=gnu99
473 2013-11-02 14:23:13 <HaltingState> #cgo LDFLAGS: -L. -L./lib -L../../../lib -Wl,-rpath='./lib/' -lsecp256k1 -lgmp
474 2013-11-02 14:23:13 <HaltingState> #define USE_FIELD_5X64
475 2013-11-02 14:23:13 <HaltingState> #define USE_NUM_GMP
476 2013-11-02 14:23:13 <HaltingState> #define USE_FIELD_INV_BUILTIN
477 2013-11-02 14:23:14 <HaltingState> #include "./secp256k1/src/secp256k1.c"
478 2013-11-02 14:23:25 _ingsoc_ has joined
479 2013-11-02 14:23:41 <HaltingState> have to deal with these cgo annoying things
480 2013-11-02 14:23:48 <sipa> and USE_FIELD_GMP ?
481 2013-11-02 14:23:58 <HaltingState> k
482 2013-11-02 14:24:02 GingerGeek[Away] is now known as GingerGeek
483 2013-11-02 14:24:04 <sipa> 5x64 requires __int128
484 2013-11-02 14:24:19 <HaltingState> gmp is nice because golang is staticly compiled; no dynamic libraries
485 2013-11-02 14:24:35 <HaltingState> it gives you a nice exe, so its nice if you can staticly link everything into your modules with c depedencies so gmp is perfect
486 2013-11-02 14:24:54 <sipa> oh, 5x64 even only supports amd64
487 2013-11-02 14:25:03 metric has joined
488 2013-11-02 14:25:20 <HaltingState> i am on amd64; can work that out later
489 2013-11-02 14:25:20 <sipa> 5x56 has a C implementation, but needs __int128
490 2013-11-02 14:25:26 michagogo has quit (cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
491 2013-11-02 14:25:26 poggy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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496 2013-11-02 14:25:40 <sipa> so i think your only options on 32-bit ARM are field_gmp and field_10x28
497 2013-11-02 14:26:58 <HaltingState> i will try to get it working first
498 2013-11-02 14:27:14 MC1984 has joined
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501 2013-11-02 14:27:43 <HaltingState> sipa, your library interface is amazing; its clean, its perfect; cant ask for anything more, complete 180 from openssl
502 2013-11-02 14:27:50 <HaltingState> 5 functions :)
503 2013-11-02 14:27:59 <sipa> 180?
504 2013-11-02 14:28:04 <sipa> ah, 180 degrees
505 2013-11-02 14:28:18 <sipa> well, it doesn't really have the same goals as openssl
506 2013-11-02 14:28:20 <HaltingState> opensll was so difficult satoshi could not figure out how to get compression working for ecc
507 2013-11-02 14:28:28 <sipa> he just didn't know about it
508 2013-11-02 14:28:36 <HaltingState> i think he tried
509 2013-11-02 14:28:43 <sipa> i really doubt that
510 2013-11-02 14:28:49 <sipa> he was very concerned with space requirements
511 2013-11-02 14:29:01 <sipa> but other parts show he didn't really know that much about crypto
512 2013-11-02 14:29:06 <HaltingState> i was reading forum post on bitcoin talks i think about him trying and giving up
513 2013-11-02 14:29:11 <sipa> e.g. using DER encoding
514 2013-11-02 14:29:17 <SomeoneWeird> http://holmes.meklu.org/static/highfreq/
515 2013-11-02 14:29:21 <sipa> HaltingState: link?
516 2013-11-02 14:29:45 <sipa> i think he know about crypto schemes and their properties, but not much about implementations or data representations they used
517 2013-11-02 14:29:51 <HaltingState> something i read a long long time ago; have to remember were; maybe reddit?
518 2013-11-02 14:30:00 <sipa> satoshi on reddit? no way
519 2013-11-02 14:30:19 <sipa> afaik he only posted to mailinglists and on the bitcoin forum
520 2013-11-02 14:30:45 <HaltingState> no, something someone said on reddit
521 2013-11-02 14:30:58 <sipa> i don't care what people say about him
522 2013-11-02 14:31:02 <sipa> i may care about what he said
523 2013-11-02 14:31:17 <HaltingState> its not important now i guess
524 2013-11-02 14:31:23 <sipa> not really
525 2013-11-02 14:32:03 <sipa> afaik, the possibility of using compressed pubkeys was only "discovered" by roconnor
526 2013-11-02 14:32:06 <sipa> in 2011 or so
527 2013-11-02 14:32:22 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
528 2013-11-02 14:33:43 <HaltingState> i wrote another library and was googling code and something came up on bitcoin talks about compression and guy said he tried but could not get it working and gave up and something about openssl suppotr on some platform or worried about security or something, but cant find it now
529 2013-11-02 14:33:45 imichaelmiers has joined
530 2013-11-02 14:34:07 <sipa> it's just a flag you need to enable on the key object
531 2013-11-02 14:34:09 <sipa> before exporting
532 2013-11-02 14:34:16 <sipa> that's what bitcoin uses now
533 2013-11-02 14:34:26 Bwild has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
534 2013-11-02 14:34:38 <sipa> there are no security implications
535 2013-11-02 14:34:46 <sipa> just minor performance overhead
536 2013-11-02 14:35:43 <HaltingState> sipa, http://pastebin.com/wQhaZhJL
537 2013-11-02 14:35:54 <HaltingState> these are errors i am getting; mostly warnings
538 2013-11-02 14:36:01 <HaltingState> some char/unchar* signature stuff
539 2013-11-02 14:37:13 aName has joined
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541 2013-11-02 14:38:38 <melvster> is there any online tool that will let me generate a simple merkle root (ie for just one tx)
542 2013-11-02 14:38:58 jeewee has joined
543 2013-11-02 14:39:11 <sipa> melvster: for just one tx, the merkle root is equal to the txid
544 2013-11-02 14:39:35 <sipa> HaltingState: hmm
545 2013-11-02 14:39:38 <melvster> oh great
546 2013-11-02 14:39:40 <melvster> http://blockchain.info/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b
547 2013-11-02 14:39:42 <melvster> e.g.
548 2013-11-02 14:40:09 <HaltingState> sipa, it builds; i supressed warnings but thought you should know; defined but not used is not problem
549 2013-11-02 14:40:18 <sipa> HaltingState: do the unit tests pass?
550 2013-11-02 14:40:34 <sipa> please try to get those running :)
551 2013-11-02 14:40:38 <HaltingState> i cant run them in golang
552 2013-11-02 14:40:57 <HaltingState> i have the wrapper compiling, now i need to finish wrapping the functions :)
553 2013-11-02 14:41:07 <sipa> they're not go, just compile and run them
554 2013-11-02 14:42:47 <HaltingState> atomos@maslow:~/secp256k1$ ./tests
555 2013-11-02 14:42:47 <HaltingState> test count = 100
556 2013-11-02 14:42:47 <HaltingState> atomos@maslow:~/secp256k1$
557 2013-11-02 14:42:50 <HaltingState> what is it supposed to do?
558 2013-11-02 14:43:40 <HaltingState> is your signature algorithm canonical, the signatures it returns?
559 2013-11-02 14:44:07 reisha has joined
560 2013-11-02 14:44:25 <sipa> yes
561 2013-11-02 14:44:43 <sipa> and that has nothing to do with the algorithm, just how the output is encoded
562 2013-11-02 14:44:55 <sipa> if it doesn't exit with an error, the tests are succesful
563 2013-11-02 14:45:34 poggy has joined
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568 2013-11-02 14:52:37 <wiretapped> HaltingState: why are you using an ecdsa lib when you want to encrypt a shared secret?
569 2013-11-02 14:52:57 <HaltingState> why cant you just encypt it and send it?
570 2013-11-02 14:52:59 <wiretapped> HaltingState: do you realize that library doesn't do encryption?
571 2013-11-02 14:53:17 <HaltingState> if you have A and B, and you want to send something to B, you just send B the thing with B's pubkey
572 2013-11-02 14:53:19 <wiretapped> i'm pretty sure you really want ECDH
573 2013-11-02 14:53:36 <HaltingState> naaa i am fine
574 2013-11-02 14:53:37 <wiretapped> HaltingState: ECDSA is for signing, not encryption
575 2013-11-02 14:53:50 <HaltingState> its same as sending text, you just encrypt it with their pub key and they get it
576 2013-11-02 14:53:52 <wiretapped> lol ok carry on
577 2013-11-02 14:53:57 Cazz0r has joined
578 2013-11-02 14:54:32 <HaltingState> its not really a shared secret; and i think this is more secure than ECDH
579 2013-11-02 14:54:34 <wiretapped> HaltingState: eventually you'll notice there isn't an "encrypt" function in sipa's secp256k1 library
580 2013-11-02 14:54:46 <HaltingState> ECDH would be broken by quantum computer; this is secure against quantum computer
581 2013-11-02 14:55:01 <HaltingState> you have to break ECC, AES and SHA256 to break my proticol
582 2013-11-02 14:55:20 <HaltingState> your kidding right?
583 2013-11-02 14:55:45 * wiretapped sighs
584 2013-11-02 14:55:59 <HaltingState> sipa, add encryption wtf wtf wtf
585 2013-11-02 14:56:37 <HaltingState> bitcoin-qt lets you encrypt/sign with pub keys i think
586 2013-11-02 14:56:45 <sipa> no it does not
587 2013-11-02 14:56:51 <sipa> ecdsa does not do encryption
588 2013-11-02 14:57:01 <sipa> it's a signature scheme only
589 2013-11-02 14:57:22 <HaltingState> i want to be able to encrypt message with A's pub key
590 2013-11-02 14:57:38 <sipa> encryption using EC is usually done using ECDH do derive a common pubkey
591 2013-11-02 14:57:44 <sipa> eh a common symmetric key
592 2013-11-02 14:57:49 <wiretapped> HaltingState: http://cr.yp.to/ecdh.html
593 2013-11-02 14:57:55 <sipa> and them use AES to encrypt using that key
594 2013-11-02 14:57:56 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds)
595 2013-11-02 14:58:10 <wiretapped> HaltingState: you should use nacl
596 2013-11-02 14:58:19 <HaltingState> nacl?
597 2013-11-02 14:58:35 <wiretapped> http://nacl.cr.yp.to/box.html
598 2013-11-02 14:58:36 Guest93123 has joined
599 2013-11-02 14:58:52 <sipa> all crypto for ECDH is actually already present in libsecp256k1
600 2013-11-02 14:59:05 <sipa> but i won't add AES :)
601 2013-11-02 15:00:57 Ogig has joined
602 2013-11-02 15:01:09 <HaltingState> ug, this is not as simple as RSA; might use RSA omg
603 2013-11-02 15:01:17 <wiretapped> sipa: ah i did not realize that
604 2013-11-02 15:01:19 <HaltingState> need to sleep
605 2013-11-02 15:01:47 <sipa> HaltingState: RSA in practice works the same way
606 2013-11-02 15:02:07 <sipa> you encrypt a session key with RSA, and then encrypt the actual message using the session key
607 2013-11-02 15:02:28 <sipa> here you establish the session key using ECDH, and then encrypt the actual message using it
608 2013-11-02 15:03:06 <HaltingState> sipa, https://t.co/cO1V00Jnjz
609 2013-11-02 15:03:11 <HaltingState> go to middle
610 2013-11-02 15:03:13 <sipa> i might add some ecdh helper functions to libsecp256k1 if there is interest
611 2013-11-02 15:03:20 <HaltingState> that is what i am exactly doing, rsa is too slow
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613 2013-11-02 15:04:25 <wiretapped> HaltingState: i read your protocol, and I still don't understand why you don't want to use ECDH
614 2013-11-02 15:04:27 NiZK has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
615 2013-11-02 15:04:49 <HaltingState> ECDH is the part where I say "encrypt M with ECC pubkey A"
616 2013-11-02 15:04:58 <HaltingState> i just have no idea how that part works
617 2013-11-02 15:05:05 <HaltingState> but i know ECC can do it somehow and i know RSA can too
618 2013-11-02 15:05:13 <sipa> ECC does _not_ encrypt
619 2013-11-02 15:05:20 <sipa> but you don't need it
620 2013-11-02 15:05:25 <sipa> and it's just as simply in practice
621 2013-11-02 15:05:38 <sipa> HaltingState: let me walk you through it
622 2013-11-02 15:05:49 <sipa> so you have a recipient public key Q
623 2013-11-02 15:05:56 <sipa> and generate a random nonce n
624 2013-11-02 15:06:18 <sipa> n is actually an EC private key, with corresponding public key N
625 2013-11-02 15:06:40 <sipa> then you compute S=Q*n (so S is an EC point again)
626 2013-11-02 15:06:56 <sipa> and encrypt your message m using H(S) as AES key
627 2013-11-02 15:07:08 <sipa> and then transmit N + AES_enc(m, H(S))
628 2013-11-02 15:07:30 <sipa> the recipient, who has the corresponding private key to Q, called q
629 2013-11-02 15:07:41 <sipa> computes N*q, and ends up with the same S
630 2013-11-02 15:07:48 <sipa> and decrypts using it
631 2013-11-02 15:08:02 <sipa> so m = AES_dec(message, H(S))
632 2013-11-02 15:08:57 <melvster> sipa: just wondering ... let's say I want to create a simple transaction which only generates some coins, what would be the easiest way to get the hash (ie the merkle root for the block) ... is there a tool or library or online tool that can be used?
633 2013-11-02 15:09:15 <sipa> melvster: you compute SHA256(SHA256(transaction))
634 2013-11-02 15:09:17 <HaltingState> oh, i thought i would multiple message by element in group and then send element and they use use their private key to compute the inverse of the element and find the message or something
635 2013-11-02 15:09:50 Guest93123 has quit (Excess Flood)
636 2013-11-02 15:09:53 <sipa> HaltingState: there are EC encryption schemes which actually work completely using EC
637 2013-11-02 15:10:03 <sipa> but there is really no point in using those over ECDH + AES
638 2013-11-02 15:10:17 <melvster> sipa: thanks, so what is the easiest way to generate such a transaction? I've been looking at http://brainwallet.org/#tx ... but not sure if that does coinbase tx
639 2013-11-02 15:10:20 <wiretapped> melvster: check out https://sx.dyne.org/
640 2013-11-02 15:10:34 <sipa> melvster: who do you want to create a coinbase tx?
641 2013-11-02 15:10:36 <wiretapped> lets you do completely offline transactions
642 2013-11-02 15:10:44 <melvster> thanks!
643 2013-11-02 15:10:49 <sipa> *why
644 2013-11-02 15:10:53 <wiretapped> which you can submit to the network via blockchain.info or something
645 2013-11-02 15:10:56 Guest93123 has joined
646 2013-11-02 15:11:12 <sipa> bitcoind can do the same using createrawtransaction and sendrawtransaction
647 2013-11-02 15:11:17 <sipa> and signrawtransaction
648 2013-11-02 15:11:22 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
649 2013-11-02 15:11:25 <sipa> but it won't let you create coinbases
650 2013-11-02 15:11:27 <melvster> sipa: im just writing some test code to model a block chain ... it also helps me learn the internals of how bitcoin works :)
651 2013-11-02 15:11:37 jeewee has joined
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653 2013-11-02 15:12:15 <HaltingState> sipa, what is confusing is in RSA each private key/public key corresponds to a group; but i think each public key here is a point on the group or something and group is fixed, have to look into this
654 2013-11-02 15:12:20 <melvster> i dont need the coinbase to be anything special
655 2013-11-02 15:12:28 <HaltingState> night; sleeep
656 2013-11-02 15:12:38 <sipa> HaltingState: EC public keys belong to a group
657 2013-11-02 15:12:42 <sipa> and EC private keys too
658 2013-11-02 15:12:53 <melvster> wiretapped: thanks!
659 2013-11-02 15:12:54 <sipa> and you can go in one direction, but not the other
660 2013-11-02 15:12:54 _lurk has joined
661 2013-11-02 15:13:01 <sipa> (by multiplying with the base)
662 2013-11-02 15:13:10 <melvster> hehe genjix's code
663 2013-11-02 15:14:10 <wiretapped> ah the website link to the repo is 404; if you get the install script you'll see it moved to https://github.com/spesmilo/sx
664 2013-11-02 15:14:32 rdponticelli has joined
665 2013-11-02 15:14:39 <wiretapped> really irritating that he still has that "wget this and sudo run it" install script
666 2013-11-02 15:14:47 <wiretapped> terrible really
667 2013-11-02 15:15:08 <wiretapped> it isn't hard to ./configure --prefix it and install it without being root
668 2013-11-02 15:16:09 jeewee has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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670 2013-11-02 15:17:04 <melvster> thx
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674 2013-11-02 15:23:04 <NiZK1> Hi. I'm trying to get a testnet set up on a private network(i.e. a 10.10.0.0/16 with no public internet access). I can use addnode to manually connect nodes, but they won't share their peers. E.g. if I connect a to b and c to b, c and a never find out about each other. Is there a way to fix this ?
675 2013-11-02 15:23:09 tmsk has quit (Quit: tmsk)
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678 2013-11-02 15:33:47 <gmaxwell> NiZK1: yes, don't use a RFC1918 addressed network.
679 2013-11-02 15:34:03 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin nodes won't share unroutable addresses.
680 2013-11-02 15:37:14 <NiZK1> Ok. So if I change the network to incorrectly assign "public" ip's (of course they only route internally), it should work?
681 2013-11-02 15:39:10 <gmaxwell> Yep.
682 2013-11-02 15:39:25 <NiZK1> thanks
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689 2013-11-02 15:58:37 <melvster> so what's actually the first value here:
690 2013-11-02 15:58:38 <melvster> "scriptPubKey":"047211a824f55b505228e4c3d5194c1fcfaa15a456abdf37f9b9d97a4040afc073dee6c89064984f03385237d92167c13e236446b417ab79a0fcae412ae3316b77 OP_CHECKSIG"
691 2013-11-02 15:58:52 <melvster> the bit before OP_CHECKSIG
692 2013-11-02 15:59:00 <gmaxwell> the ECDSA public key.
693 2013-11-02 15:59:17 <melvster> oic
694 2013-11-02 15:59:23 android_ has joined
695 2013-11-02 15:59:43 <melvster> 130 hex digits, is that right?
696 2013-11-02 15:59:46 <gmaxwell> (beyond OP_CHECKSIG popping <sig> <pubkey>, thats also suggested by the value beginning with 04 (or 02 or 03))
697 2013-11-02 16:00:39 <melvster> so an ecdsa pub key is 520 bits before hashing?
698 2013-11-02 16:00:55 <gmaxwell> melvster: thats a x,y type pubkey 'uncompressed'.
699 2013-11-02 16:01:20 <gmaxwell> They can also have only the x coordinate.
700 2013-11-02 16:02:27 <melvster> gmaxwell: ok good, I think that's what's generated here: http://brainwallet.org/#generator
701 2013-11-02 16:02:36 <melvster> what they call Public Key (SEC)
702 2013-11-02 16:03:36 <melvster> so to create a coinbase tx I just take http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/9b0fc92260312ce44e74ef369f5c66bbb85848f2eddd5a7a1cde251e54ccfdd5 and replace that value with another 130 hex string, serialize, then double hash
703 2013-11-02 16:06:27 Bkil has quit (Quit: Bye)
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705 2013-11-02 16:12:12 <sipa> melvster: technically, a scriptPubKey doesn't need to be spendable for the transaction to be valid
706 2013-11-02 16:12:20 <sipa> only when you want to spend the output
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734 2013-11-02 16:40:21 <melvster> so is there a library that will serialize a transaction of the form http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/9b0fc92260312ce44e74ef369f5c66bbb85848f2eddd5a7a1cde251e54ccfdd5 into something more like https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#tx (so that I can hash it)?
735 2013-11-02 16:41:10 <melvster> or should i be looking at getdata
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737 2013-11-02 16:43:18 <lianj> melvster: bitcoin-ruby does serialization roundtrips
738 2013-11-02 16:43:28 <melvster> lianj: thanks
739 2013-11-02 16:43:53 <melvster> oh
740 2013-11-02 16:43:55 <melvster> getrawtransaction <txid> [verbose=0] version 0.7 Returns raw transaction representation for given transaction id.
741 2013-11-02 16:44:42 Gabralkhan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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743 2013-11-02 16:46:52 <sipa> melvster: in 0.8, you need a transaction index for that
744 2013-11-02 16:46:56 <gulli_> im using bitcoinj, and I am getting that the method testNet3() is deprecated for NetworkParameters.testNet3()
745 2013-11-02 16:47:02 <gulli_> anyone know wh?
746 2013-11-02 16:47:16 <sipa> namespacing, i suppose
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750 2013-11-02 16:49:08 <gulli_> namespacing?
751 2013-11-02 16:50:01 <sipa> better ask TD if you want the real answer :)
752 2013-11-02 16:53:38 <gulli_> I think I figured it out :)
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756 2013-11-02 16:57:21 <melvster> sipa: I think i did it?
757 2013-11-02 16:57:24 <melvster> getrawtransaction 9b0fc92260312ce44e74ef369f5c66bbb85848f2eddd5a7a1cde251e54ccfdd5
758 2013-11-02 16:57:24 <melvster> 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff0704ffff001d010bffffffff0100f2052a010000004341047211a824f55b505228e4c3d5194c1fcfaa15a456abdf37f9b9d97a4040afc073dee6c89064984f03385237d92167c13e236446b417ab79a0fcae412ae3316b77ac00000000
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765 2013-11-02 17:07:25 <Evilmax> ;;blocks
766 2013-11-02 17:07:26 <gribble> 267539
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768 2013-11-02 17:09:21 <Evilmax> i am afraid that bitcoin blocks go faster than my bitcoind synchronnization
769 2013-11-02 17:09:44 <Evilmax> I do not ever reach it?
770 2013-11-02 17:12:19 <gmaxwell> Evilmax: if you are taking 10 minutes per block then something is wrong with your hardware.
771 2013-11-02 17:12:36 <Evilmax> it is an adsl
772 2013-11-02 17:12:44 <Evilmax> on a netbook
773 2013-11-02 17:12:53 <Evilmax> maybe netbook has low ram
774 2013-11-02 17:13:20 <Evilmax> i am waiting for 6 days
775 2013-11-02 17:13:23 <Evilmax> at least
776 2013-11-02 17:13:27 rdymac has quit (Quit: bai bai \(^w^) ZNC - http://znc.in)
777 2013-11-02 17:13:33 <Evilmax> instead...on another pc...it is faster
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786 2013-11-02 17:25:44 <dobry-den> blockchain initial sync is pretty dirty
787 2013-11-02 17:27:22 <_alp_> If it takes you more than 10 minutes to download 1MB, you are gonna have a bad time.
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790 2013-11-02 17:28:14 <dobry-den> the download is the easy part. it's the contention when daisychaining the blocks that hurts a netbook
791 2013-11-02 17:28:34 <lianj> dobry-den: using a bootstrap file?
792 2013-11-02 17:28:40 reisha has joined
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794 2013-11-02 17:28:59 <dobry-den> right, im just saying a sync from scratch is pretty rough on a netbook at the moment
795 2013-11-02 17:31:05 <dobry-den> maybe im still in 2009 but netbook to me also means an atom processor
796 2013-11-02 17:31:15 <lianj> :D
797 2013-11-02 17:31:42 <dobry-den> i would close down every other tab/application to watch a youtube vid at 320p
798 2013-11-02 17:32:58 <lianj> had the epc701 for 1 year as my main machine and it wasn't so bad
799 2013-11-02 17:33:17 <dobry-den> what year?
800 2013-11-02 17:33:29 <lianj> dunno, when it was released
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803 2013-11-02 17:34:48 <dobry-den> i bought my netbook in 2009 as pretty much a harddrive with a gui for when i traveled. of course, my main computer immediately broke and my netbook became my main machine for 2 years - the rest of uni
804 2013-11-02 17:35:19 <dobry-den> a vanilla ruby on rails app took 45 seconds to boot into dev console
805 2013-11-02 17:35:46 deafboy_ has left ()
806 2013-11-02 17:36:05 <lianj> rails is bad at booting anyway. the 701 was funny though, only 4gb diskspace but 8gb ram. lived in tmpfs
807 2013-11-02 17:36:12 deafboy has joined
808 2013-11-02 17:37:06 <dobry-den> yeah, i assumed that maybe ~30 seconds was the norm. so i could handle 15 extra seconds. but when i got my first job out of uni, they bought me a 2011 macbook air and it booted rails in 2 seconds
809 2013-11-02 17:37:50 <dobry-den> that's a funny storage config
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811 2013-11-02 17:38:32 <dobry-den> it's like a ram machine with a little bit of durable swap bolted on
812 2013-11-02 17:38:41 <dobry-den> i like it
813 2013-11-02 17:38:58 <dobry-den> better than my 1gb of ram
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847 2013-11-02 18:12:17 <maaku> what is the freenode-verf branch?
848 2013-11-02 18:12:54 <maaku> dobry-den: syncfrom scratch will always be rough on a netbook :\
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853 2013-11-02 18:21:53 <sipa> maaku: it was created by jgarzik to get ownership of #bicoin* on freenode
854 2013-11-02 18:22:08 <sipa> should be removed
855 2013-11-02 18:22:44 <kaptah> .3
856 2013-11-02 18:25:08 <sipa> ?
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863 2013-11-02 18:36:53 <dobry-den> think it's a one-eyed :3
864 2013-11-02 18:38:09 <dobry-den> maaku: as lianj said, the fastest route is to download most of the blockchain from, say, the torrent and then sync the rest of the way
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888 2013-11-02 19:00:57 <countryslim> how does bitcoinstats.com work? is the code open source?
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922 2013-11-02 19:40:46 <dobry-den> countryslim: it's just irc log dumps
923 2013-11-02 19:46:12 <dobry-den> countryslim: http://www.anta.net/misc/telnet-troubleshooting/irc.shtml
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936 2013-11-02 20:12:28 <gulli_> So, anyone here been using BitcoinJ?
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939 2013-11-02 20:14:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: I don't know what freenode's policies are like, but it's possible that the branch would need to stay to keep the group registration
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942 2013-11-02 20:17:48 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: that would be silly.
943 2013-11-02 20:18:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: I would guess that's not the case
944 2013-11-02 20:19:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But I don't know that it's not, and I've seen similar things in the past that did
945 2013-11-02 20:22:15 <grau> gmaxwell: I noticed that some multisig transactions on the network have CODESEPARATOR between pubkey and the number of signatures required, is this needed?
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949 2013-11-02 20:26:32 <grau> signatures are not hashed either and I do not see a problem with hashing the pubkeys, do I miss something?
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963 2013-11-02 20:49:28 <skinnkavaj> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pregi/finally_bip0038_encrypted_paper_wallets_at/
964 2013-11-02 20:49:31 <skinnkavaj> Nice nice!
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992 2013-11-02 21:32:50 <Smrtz> Can someone tell me the official bitcoin dev mailing list please?
993 2013-11-02 21:33:10 <TheLordOfTime> he means for the bitcoin protocol devs. (from #bitcoin)
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995 2013-11-02 21:34:08 <Smrtz> Thanks TheLordOfTime
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1005 2013-11-02 21:44:22 <sipa> Smrtz: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
1006 2013-11-02 21:45:38 <Smrtz> sipa: That's the one I found, but I couldn't find any reffrence to it on the bitcoin wiki, so I just wanted to make sure it was the official one. Thanks.
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1010 2013-11-02 21:46:36 <sipa> doesn't surprise me; the wiki is incomplete and outdated mostly
1011 2013-11-02 21:46:48 <Smrtz> sipa: I'm learning that...
1012 2013-11-02 21:47:19 <Smrtz> sipa: Thanks, I joined....
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1014 2013-11-02 21:54:54 <Luke-Jr> Smrtz: "official" has no meaning in a decentralised system, but that's as close as you'll get
1015 2013-11-02 21:55:09 <Luke-Jr> Smrtz: help make the wiki more complete! :D
1016 2013-11-02 21:55:28 <Smrtz> Luke-Jr: Once I get the time, I'll make a mailing list page...
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1058 2013-11-02 23:26:50 <gmaxwell> bc.i can now return hex!
1059 2013-11-02 23:26:56 <gmaxwell> e.g. https://blockchain.info/tx/c07d47a5e1d023d0fd2c47c600a4ca178c7a2954754c88f3fb7f729bafb94539?format=hex
1060 2013-11-02 23:28:53 <pankkake> pretty cool
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1062 2013-11-02 23:35:29 <groglogic> Luke-Jr: official has close to zero meaning in the general sense anyway ;-)
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1067 2013-11-02 23:44:59 <jouke> gmaxwell: finally
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1073 2013-11-02 23:59:14 <warren> how is bootstrap.dat supposed to work? My fresh bitcoind importing bootstrap.dat is also downloading all those same blocks from peers. -connect=0.0.0.0 and it doesn't import bootstrap.dat at all.