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  17 2013-12-09 00:26:32 <TYDIRocks> Hey gmaxwell, you there?
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  19 2013-12-09 00:27:26 <gmaxwell> TYDIRocks: maybe but your problems can be answered by people other than me!
  20 2013-12-09 00:27:42 * gmaxwell is reminded as to why you don't feed stray cats :)
  21 2013-12-09 00:27:51 <TYDIRocks> gmaxwell, haha true sorry
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  23 2013-12-09 00:28:51 <TYDIRocks> To anyone, it seems that I have around .4-.5 BTC missing from blockchain.info than on the wallet on my machine (I imported keys to blockchain). I'mn 8 weeks behind currently while syncing, but once I am synced up what should I do? Should I send all my coins to 1 address in the wallet?
  24 2013-12-09 00:29:04 andytoshi has joined
  25 2013-12-09 00:29:28 <gmaxwell> TYDIRocks: yes that would probably fix that, by consolidating whatever keys bc.i isn't aware of.
  26 2013-12-09 00:29:57 <TYDIRocks> Okay thank you. This is awesome to know I have a hidden stash of this amount of btc! :D
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  29 2013-12-09 00:30:54 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: you probably shouldn't be messing with ECDSA keys
  30 2013-12-09 00:31:14 <omniden> TYDIRocks: Might be worth reading https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change if you're not familiar with change addresses and how they will result in different balances reported on blockchain.info vs in your wallet.
  31 2013-12-09 00:31:15 <TYDIRocks> Luke-Jr, what do you mean?
  32 2013-12-09 00:31:22 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: he imported a bitcoin-qt wallet into bc.i and it sounds like it didn't get all the keys.
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  35 2013-12-09 00:31:40 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: does bc.i have a B-Qt wallet importer?
  36 2013-12-09 00:31:44 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: it does.
  37 2013-12-09 00:31:49 <Luke-Jr> weird
  38 2013-12-09 00:31:51 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: its server side.
  39 2013-12-09 00:31:57 <Luke-Jr> lol >_<
  40 2013-12-09 00:32:07 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: of course, it doesn't tell users that…
  41 2013-12-09 00:32:34 <Luke-Jr> we really need some kind of certification for sane wallet implementations
  42 2013-12-09 00:32:42 <Luke-Jr> (which sadly would have to exclude Electrum now)
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  44 2013-12-09 00:33:19 <TYDIRocks> omniden, oh right I remember reading how it does that, that completely slipped my mind that may have happened. Pretty sure I imported my wallet while it was having problems though, so I would think bc.i would put thos addresses with my login if it used it. Guess not
  45 2013-12-09 00:34:48 <hno> TYDIRocks, and you really needed to reuse your old addresses instead of just sending a transaction with all coins to the new wallet?
  46 2013-12-09 00:35:12 <TYDIRocks> hnc, who said anything about a new wallet?
  47 2013-12-09 00:35:17 <TYDIRocks> hnc, same wallet, 2 locations
  48 2013-12-09 00:35:21 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: that won't work
  49 2013-12-09 00:35:34 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: Bitcoin-Qt is always revising its wallet file
  50 2013-12-09 00:35:46 <Luke-Jr> it cannot be shared
  51 2013-12-09 00:36:03 <TYDIRocks> Okay fine sorry, same private keys, different wallets
  52 2013-12-09 00:36:07 <TYDIRocks> right?
  53 2013-12-09 00:36:09 <Luke-Jr> no
  54 2013-12-09 00:36:15 <Luke-Jr> don't mess with ECDSA keys.
  55 2013-12-09 00:36:19 <Luke-Jr> that's wallet internals
  56 2013-12-09 00:36:26 <hno> TYDIRocks, see link omniden sent you above..
  57 2013-12-09 00:36:31 <TYDIRocks> I am
  58 2013-12-09 00:37:11 <Luke-Jr> messing with ECDSA keys directly is asking to lose bitcoins
  59 2013-12-09 00:37:41 <hno> Bottom line, blockchain.info wallet != your qt wallet. Different wallets, now both claim to have some of the same coins.
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  61 2013-12-09 00:37:57 <Luke-Jr> hno: will the fixed firmware be out soon, or do I really need to figure out a workaround to put in BFGMiner long-term?
  62 2013-12-09 00:38:18 <Luke-Jr> hno: re i2c issue in KnCMiner units
  63 2013-12-09 00:38:48 <TYDIRocks> Okay I see now. Question though. Since I've only used the blockchain.info, would that mean there could be coins on bc.i that I don't have in my bitcoin-qt?
  64 2013-12-09 00:38:59 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: could be
  65 2013-12-09 00:39:10 <hno> Luke-Jr, good question. Have been on another project for most of last week. The workaround (as I told you before) is to delay a little bit between i2c transactions.
  66 2013-12-09 00:39:28 <gmaxwell> TYDIRocks: yea, if you've been running your wallet in multiple places you can end up like that..
  67 2013-12-09 00:39:36 <TYDIRocks> Interesting. So would the best way to go about this is make a new wallet and send the funds of both wallets to that new wallet?
  68 2013-12-09 00:39:36 <Luke-Jr> hno: right, I just don't want to put it in the mainline codebase if it's going to be fixed in a week
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  71 2013-12-09 00:40:02 <gmaxwell> where there are coins in each not in the other. The way to fix that is to go to one, send all it can see to another wallet. then wait until it confirms and both wallets see it, and if there is any coin left over in the other wallet, them move it.
  72 2013-12-09 00:40:04 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: probably the safest
  73 2013-12-09 00:40:11 <hno> Luke-Jr, understood. I'll discuss the matter with the rest of the team tomorrow.
  74 2013-12-09 00:40:40 <TYDIRocks> Hmm, not sure if I want to do what gmaxwell said or just make a fresh wallet
  75 2013-12-09 00:41:03 <TYDIRocks> I think I'll just make a fresh wallet
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  77 2013-12-09 00:41:18 <hno> TYDIRocks, doesn't matter really. If you empty one wallet into another both updates..
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  79 2013-12-09 00:41:22 <TYDIRocks> Probably the safest in case my blockchain somehow gets comprimised
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  82 2013-12-09 00:41:51 <TYDIRocks> hmc, I meant security wise but yeah
  83 2013-12-09 00:42:15 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: how about a reference wallet implimentation as a library?
  84 2013-12-09 00:42:17 <hno> TYDIRocks, all keys that had any value should get spent by that transaction.
  85 2013-12-09 00:42:32 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: doesn't exist at this time, afaik
  86 2013-12-09 00:42:42 <gmaxwell> the reason to use a third wallet for the cleanup is to get yourself into a totally non-mixed up state.
  87 2013-12-09 00:43:15 <hno> agreed.
  88 2013-12-09 00:43:49 <TYDIRocks> yes I think that's best haha
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  90 2013-12-09 00:44:40 <hno> just don't delete any of the wallets.. archive them somewhere when done.
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  93 2013-12-09 00:45:15 * Belxjander has "mirrored" two wallets into each other
  94 2013-12-09 00:45:25 <TYDIRocks> Yeah. So would the best course of action be copy my current wallet, delete it in the dir so a new one is made, get that public address, copy that and put the old one in to send the coins?
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  96 2013-12-09 00:46:27 <hno> I think there is a bitcoin-qt command line flag for specifying wallet, but not sure it actually works..
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  98 2013-12-09 00:46:45 <Luke-Jr> hno: it's not in any release
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 100 2013-12-09 00:47:06 <hno> Luke-Jr, only in master?
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 102 2013-12-09 00:47:11 <Luke-Jr> right
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 111 2013-12-09 00:54:10 <TYDIRocks> So should I do my idea then?
 112 2013-12-09 01:00:47 <hno> TYDIRocks, yes, and after transaction confirmed also from the blockchain wallet.
 113 2013-12-09 01:01:05 <hno> just make sure you have it backed up proper first.
 114 2013-12-09 01:01:13 <TYDIRocks> Yup will do, thanks for the help
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 135 2013-12-09 01:23:40 <sunspotbtc> yay, for the first time, bitcoind completed and I've now got an active node running - 15G space consumed by the database, logging, etc.
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 137 2013-12-09 01:24:27 <sunspotbtc> just thought I'd share success since you guys probaly get a lot more failure reports :)
 138 2013-12-09 01:24:45 <gmaxwell> sunspotbtc: indeed! thanks!
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 140 2013-12-09 01:27:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: a mental note for future wallet formats:  ISTM that when we do a "Backup" we should be exporting in a slightly different form where all the data is actually encrypted.  E.g. by having all the wallet data encrypted, with a seperate key for the 'public data' which is stored in the operating wallet, and when you do a backup it just omits that key in the backup.
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 142 2013-12-09 01:27:59 <warren> wumpus: ping
 143 2013-12-09 01:28:01 <gmaxwell> (and when you load such a wallet it first converts it to the operating form by asking for the encryption key to decrypt the operating key)
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 147 2013-12-09 01:30:53 <hno> gmaxwell, what do you mean by "a seperate key for the 'public data' which is stored in the operating walle"t?
 148 2013-12-09 01:30:58 <Belxjander> gmaxwell: to me it all reads as "WalletID, "rootkey", crtypto-block(public key section), cryptoblock(opt-privkey-set)
 149 2013-12-09 01:31:43 <Belxjander> where rootkey is a generator input to apply with a user-entered password for any crypto logic
 150 2013-12-09 01:32:04 <Belxjander> WalletID being the "UserID for the wallet converned
 151 2013-12-09 01:32:30 <gmaxwell> Belxjander: that general kind of thing.
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 156 2013-12-09 01:33:56 <gmaxwell> hno: I'm finding myself repeating the same words. Current bitcoin-qt wallets do not encrypt the "public data", public keys transaction metadata, etc— for good reason: if its encrypted you'd have to type the encryption key at startup and keep it in memory constantly... which is not compatible with minimizing the risk of exposure of the key.
 157 2013-12-09 01:34:14 <hno> yes, I am well aware of this.
 158 2013-12-09 01:34:17 <gmaxwell> hno: I'm suggesting that while this is a good tradeoff for operating wallets, it's not a necessary one for backups.
 159 2013-12-09 01:34:34 <hno> agreed so far.
 160 2013-12-09 01:34:59 <gmaxwell> So if, instead, the public data was also encrypted, but the key for that encryption was kept on the node (perhaps even in a seperate file) but also in the wallet encrypted with the wallet passphrase, then that key could be omitted in backups.
 161 2013-12-09 01:35:14 <gmaxwell> so when you restore a backup you'd need to provide the spending key— but just once.
 162 2013-12-09 01:36:16 <hno> Ok, so the operating key is stored twice in both encrypted and plan form, but only envrypted form backed up.
 163 2013-12-09 01:36:48 <hno> makes sense.
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 165 2013-12-09 01:37:54 <hno> make it the default wallet.dat format even, with operating key in bitcoin.conf or similar.
 166 2013-12-09 01:38:02 <hno> the plain copy.
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 168 2013-12-09 01:38:54 <hno> or better a separate file. bitcoin.conf also have backup value.
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 171 2013-12-09 01:42:44 <gmaxwell> hno: yea, we can't do this in wallet.dat today... but in a future format we should.
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 198 2013-12-09 02:11:19 <amiller> ugh, even pynode really wants to keep a whole blockchain for itself
 199 2013-12-09 02:11:40 <amiller> i wish i had an easy way to get different nodes on my machine to share the same storage
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 213 2013-12-09 02:28:48 <amiller> well, now i think i should make an SPV mode variant of pynode
 214 2013-12-09 02:29:18 <nsh> i think i should make brownies
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 246 2013-12-09 03:17:35 <maaku> amiller: switch to a shared database?
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 286 2013-12-09 03:50:44 <copumpkin> tcatm: you around?
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 291 2013-12-09 03:57:01 <Eneerge> any of you good with batch? If you're taking a reference variable into a function, is there anyway to read the value of that variable within the function after it's been set. EG: set %~1=whatever .... how would I access %~1% while still inside of the function? ..... set %~1=whatever & echo %~1 <--- only echos out the name of the variable. I tried %~1% and %%~1%, etc
 292 2013-12-09 03:57:27 <andytoshi> just use cygwin :}
 293 2013-12-09 03:59:12 clan_ has joined
 294 2013-12-09 03:59:23 <clan_> hi, i wrote some code to create transactions. but i am not sure if the transaction is valid. how can i do the testing? or can i post the raw transaction here?
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 314 2013-12-09 04:15:55 <clan_> is there any bitcoind rpc server for testnet?
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 316 2013-12-09 04:19:18 <phantomcircuit> ;;seen jgarzik
 317 2013-12-09 04:19:18 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <jgarzik> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/
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 350 2013-12-09 04:44:08 <weex> is anyone aware of an abe that's running for bitcoin right now?
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 361 2013-12-09 04:53:31 <lechuga> abe?
 362 2013-12-09 04:54:06 <weex> https://github.com/bitcoin-abe/bitcoin-abe it's "a block explorer"
 363 2013-12-09 04:54:32 <weex> has this stat called % Coin Days Destroyed that I'm fond of
 364 2013-12-09 04:54:51 <weex> guess it's back to the spreadsheet to calc that
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 380 2013-12-09 05:20:28 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #499: FAILURE in 42 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/499/
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 384 2013-12-09 05:25:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, looks like a jenkins failure rather than a real build failure
 385 2013-12-09 05:26:05 <phantomcircuit> make[2]: *** [check-local] Killed
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 416 2013-12-09 06:27:09 <amiller> jaldskjf i take it no one is using pynode for much of anything
 417 2013-12-09 06:27:25 <amiller> it seems to crash around block 218000, but i fixed it.
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 426 2013-12-09 06:33:39 <Plarkplark_> What is an estimate what a full normal (public ip) 8333 node generates a month?
 427 2013-12-09 06:33:47 <Plarkplark_> (traffic)
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 447 2013-12-09 06:46:53 <Plarkplark_> also: If running a node on private addr. space - is port-forwarding 8333 enough for it to participate as a full node?
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 484 2013-12-09 07:31:40 <maaku> Plarkplark_: yes
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 488 2013-12-09 07:35:46 <go1111111> im trying to build bitcoin-qt for the first time. when i run 'configure', should everything be a 'yes'? I get several 'no's such as "checking for the pthreads library -lpthreads... no"
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 493 2013-12-09 07:41:16 <wumpus> go1111111: most "no"'s are not a problem and simply worked around. it's just "measuring" your system to build an bitcoin executable for it
 494 2013-12-09 07:41:47 <wumpus> if there is a problem is will give a warning of even error out
 495 2013-12-09 07:42:14 <go1111111> cool, thanks.
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 500 2013-12-09 07:48:54 <Plarkplark_> Version 80500 getting InvalidChainFound a lot and getinfo is stuck on "Warning: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
 501 2013-12-09 07:49:15 <Plarkplark_> stuck on block 128969
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 504 2013-12-09 07:51:20 <Plarkplark_> debian wheezy, precompiled 64 bit bins.
 505 2013-12-09 07:51:35 <Plarkplark_> did a -par=1 no help
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 531 2013-12-09 08:18:13 <selocc> hello, im looking for a way to see all the IPs participiating in the bitcoin network
 532 2013-12-09 08:18:34 <selocc> it seems that it was possible through addr.dat but now that is obsolete is there a new way
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 538 2013-12-09 08:22:17 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
 539 2013-12-09 08:22:18 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #500: FIXED in 44 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/500/
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 561 2013-12-09 08:51:01 <maaku> selocc: peers.dat
 562 2013-12-09 08:51:06 <maaku> it's still there
 563 2013-12-09 08:51:22 <maaku> you may also be interested in the dns seeder
 564 2013-12-09 08:51:33 <selocc> what tools should I use in order to read it
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 567 2013-12-09 08:52:42 <maaku> you'll have to write your own
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 569 2013-12-09 08:54:08 <selocc> alright. I guess Ill be looking into dns seeder thanks a bunch
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 572 2013-12-09 08:55:33 <ThomasZ> how does one build bitcoin on Windows since the qmake buildsystem removal from master?
 573 2013-12-09 08:56:15 <sipa> the same as other platforms
 574 2013-12-09 08:56:26 <ThomasZ> other platforms don't have visual studio ;)
 575 2013-12-09 08:56:33 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 576 2013-12-09 08:56:47 <sipa> bitcoin built in visual studio? :o
 577 2013-12-09 08:57:12 <sipa> autogen.sh && ./configure && make
 578 2013-12-09 08:57:26 <ThomasZ> we are talking about Windows...
 579 2013-12-09 08:57:28 <lclc> I think on Windows it's called nmake?
 580 2013-12-09 08:57:32 <ThomasZ> those are unix tools
 581 2013-12-09 08:57:35 <sipa> in msys
 582 2013-12-09 08:58:05 <sipa> though you need to specify the directories with dependencies manually
 583 2013-12-09 08:58:13 <sipa> to comfigure
 584 2013-12-09 08:58:18 <ThomasZ> ok, so with the removal of qmake support for Windows native build environment is dropped :(
 585 2013-12-09 08:58:41 <lclc> try with http://www.cygwin.com/
 586 2013-12-09 08:58:47 <sipa> you needed mingw before just as now
 587 2013-12-09 08:59:20 <sipa> no need for cygwin
 588 2013-12-09 09:00:10 <ThomasZ> I never used cygwin in my life;  just the bash that comes with git.  Certainly no mingw.  the VS compiler is a lot better on Windows.
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 591 2013-12-09 09:01:23 <sipa> you built bitcoin using VS before?
 592 2013-12-09 09:01:27 <ThomasZ> yes
 593 2013-12-09 09:01:37 <sipa> with no code changes?
 594 2013-12-09 09:01:38 <ThomasZ> long time ago, but it worked.
 595 2013-12-09 09:01:52 <sipa> yes, very long ago there was a VS project file
 596 2013-12-09 09:02:35 <sipa> but qmake required mingw afaik, just as now
 597 2013-12-09 09:02:42 <ThomasZ> you realize that qmake supports visua studio, right?
 598 2013-12-09 09:03:00 <sipa> did that work?
 599 2013-12-09 09:03:06 <ThomasZ> yes, I used it all the time.
 600 2013-12-09 09:03:50 <sipa> for bitcoin?
 601 2013-12-09 09:03:52 W0rmDr1nk has joined
 602 2013-12-09 09:04:46 <sipa> none of the developers use windows, so it would surprise me if it worked at all, though if you say so...
 603 2013-12-09 09:05:00 t7 has joined
 604 2013-12-09 09:05:28 <ThomasZ> I haven't compiled bitcoin on windows for ages, so I can't say. And since I know Qt very well and QMake very well, I'm aware you can do hacks that break the cross-platform support.
 605 2013-12-09 09:05:29 <sipa> in any case, only having to maintain a single build system that is compatible with more systems certainly outweighs supporting VS for us
 606 2013-12-09 09:05:53 <ThomasZ> ehm, my whole point here was that it is *not* compatible with more systems.
 607 2013-12-09 09:06:04 <ThomasZ> you dropped support for the mos used compiler in the world
 608 2013-12-09 09:06:07 <wumpus> there is someone (unrelated to the core dev team) working on MSVC build
 609 2013-12-09 09:06:09 <ThomasZ> *ost
 610 2013-12-09 09:06:30 <gavinandresen> ThomasZ:  wasn't most-used for the people contributing to the project, and those are the people who matter
 611 2013-12-09 09:06:38 <sipa> we dropped support for MSVC some 2-3 years ago
 612 2013-12-09 09:06:41 <wumpus> there's a topic in bitcoin talk under Development about it...
 613 2013-12-09 09:07:01 <wumpus> then again, we use cross-compilation so it'd be useless for us
 614 2013-12-09 09:07:13 <gavinandresen> In any case, I'd love to have a supported Visual Studio project checked in to the tree and maintained.  "patches welcome"
 615 2013-12-09 09:07:38 <ThomasZ> gavinandresen: that would include using cmake (assuming we don't want to go back to qmake ;).
 616 2013-12-09 09:07:43 <gavinandresen> tricky bit was compiling all the dependencies last I checked (boost and berkeley db in particular)
 617 2013-12-09 09:08:06 <ThomasZ> boost on Windows is trivial. Unpack and done.
 618 2013-12-09 09:08:11 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yes, the normal way on windows is to throw it all including the deps into one solution
 619 2013-12-09 09:08:20 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.  Very possible I'm misremembering.
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 622 2013-12-09 09:08:52 * sipa prefers having to maintain just a single build system
 623 2013-12-09 09:09:04 [Author] has joined
 624 2013-12-09 09:09:06 <ThomasZ> but, ok, Windows was not a priority when you guys decided on going for automake.
 625 2013-12-09 09:09:13 <wumpus> windows was a priority
 626 2013-12-09 09:09:14 <sipa> windows is a priority
 627 2013-12-09 09:09:17 <wumpus> is*
 628 2013-12-09 09:09:17 <sipa> msvc is not
 629 2013-12-09 09:10:06 <gavinandresen> wumpus: time to tag 0.8.6 final?  You wanna tag/sign, or should I?
 630 2013-12-09 09:10:07 <ThomasZ> ok, rephrase; windows *developers* are not a priority
 631 2013-12-09 09:10:15 <wumpus> yes, working on that gavinandresen
 632 2013-12-09 09:10:21 <sipa> i have no problems with patches that make the code msvc compatible though
 633 2013-12-09 09:10:28 <gavinandresen> Windows developers have not been a priority because we haven't had windows developers step up and contribute
 634 2013-12-09 09:10:36 <wumpus> +1 gavinandresen
 635 2013-12-09 09:11:12 mynameis has quit (Client Quit)
 636 2013-12-09 09:11:21 <gavinandresen> Might just be me, but it seems like there is less of a culture of sharing / open source with windows developers.
 637 2013-12-09 09:11:30 <wumpus> and diapolo (our only active windows dev) likes mingw
 638 2013-12-09 09:11:41 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 639 2013-12-09 09:13:11 <wumpus> pushed the v0.8.6 tag
 640 2013-12-09 09:13:32 <gavinandresen> wumpus: excellent, I'll fire up gitian
 641 2013-12-09 09:13:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: are you ok with moving libsecp256k1 under github.com/bitcoin, and integrating it (for now, only with an experimental option that disables wallet and mining)?
 642 2013-12-09 09:14:07 gst has joined
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 644 2013-12-09 09:14:17 <nell> gavinandresen
 645 2013-12-09 09:14:17 <wumpus> mine is also in progress
 646 2013-12-09 09:14:21 <nell> can you sing me your blessings?
 647 2013-12-09 09:14:35 ovidiusoft has joined
 648 2013-12-09 09:14:50 <gavinandresen> sipa:  sure; I THINK I'd be comfortabe with just making it optional and off-by-default even
 649 2013-12-09 09:14:55 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, does that include the wallet hashing stuff?
 650 2013-12-09 09:15:19 <gavinandresen> nell: sorry, can't, no microphone on this machine
 651 2013-12-09 09:15:37 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: "that" ??
 652 2013-12-09 09:15:49 <phantomcircuit> the 0.8.6 tag
 653 2013-12-09 09:15:52 <sipa> gavinandresen: i prefer some measures so people don't hold me responsible if it forks the chain, or vets them robbed or lose their coins...
 654 2013-12-09 09:15:53 <phantomcircuit> i guess i can check actually
 655 2013-12-09 09:15:55 <nell> t-thank you
 656 2013-12-09 09:15:58 <phantomcircuit> brain isn't working anymore...
 657 2013-12-09 09:16:10 <sipa> phantomcircuit: don't think so
 658 2013-12-09 09:16:25 <gavinandresen> sipa: off-by-default with a big "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED" should be enough, I think
 659 2013-12-09 09:16:44 <phantomcircuit> nobody reads warnings :/
 660 2013-12-09 09:16:58 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: if it's off by default, they likely will
 661 2013-12-09 09:17:21 <sunspotbtc> gavinandresen: your bitcoin.org key is out of date which cause a wee bit of paranoia when I tried to verify the 0.8.6 today, until I found the mit version
 662 2013-12-09 09:17:23 <phantomcircuit> someone will post how to turn it on and be like "MAKE BITCOIN 10x FASTER!!1!!"
 663 2013-12-09 09:17:29 <phantomcircuit> and nobody will read the warnings
 664 2013-12-09 09:17:38 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: hmm you have a point there... SPEED!!!!!1!!!
 665 2013-12-09 09:17:52 <sipa> more like 4x now
 666 2013-12-09 09:18:04 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ah
 667 2013-12-09 09:18:06 <sipa> since i disabled the glv optimization
 668 2013-12-09 09:18:12 <phantomcircuit> that's a pretty good speed up still
 669 2013-12-09 09:18:32 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea what that is
 670 2013-12-09 09:18:44 <sunspotbtc> gavinandresen: this one: http://bitcoin.org/gavinandresen.asc
 671 2013-12-09 09:18:58 charlesy has joined
 672 2013-12-09 09:19:12 <gavinandresen> sunspotbtc: look again, I think my pull request to fix that was pulled today
 673 2013-12-09 09:19:35 BTC_Bear has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 674 2013-12-09 09:20:38 <sunspotbtc> gavinandresen: confirmed, thanks!
 675 2013-12-09 09:20:57 agnostic98 has joined
 676 2013-12-09 09:21:40 <sipa> phantomcircuit: a potentially-patented optimization that Hal discovered some years ago
 677 2013-12-09 09:22:00 <sipa> (by discovered, i mean discovered the paper)
 678 2013-12-09 09:22:01 <phantomcircuit> ah
 679 2013-12-09 09:22:41 <phantomcircuit> and im just sitting here writing billing systems
 680 2013-12-09 09:23:24 <sipa> haha
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 687 2013-12-09 09:34:16 <MarkProffitt> Has this already been done? A cryptographic escrow system where a buyer sends coins to an address that the only seller can only access after the buyer sends another key to the seller?  So if the buyer never sends the 2nd key those coins are lost forever?
 688 2013-12-09 09:34:52 <MarkProffitt> I don't mean a 3rd party service, I mean totally based on encryption.
 689 2013-12-09 09:36:33 tonokip has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 690 2013-12-09 09:37:37 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: what scenario would that be good for?
 691 2013-12-09 09:37:54 <MarkProffitt> Everything
 692 2013-12-09 09:38:29 tonokip has joined
 693 2013-12-09 09:38:39 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: only motive for the buyer not to send the second key is spite?
 694 2013-12-09 09:38:59 <MarkProffitt> BitCoin is cash. If you send someone cash and they don't deliver the product you lost your money.
 695 2013-12-09 09:39:10 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: yea, but they got the cash!
 696 2013-12-09 09:39:16 serialbandicoot has joined
 697 2013-12-09 09:39:17 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: so you can sue them to get it back
 698 2013-12-09 09:39:37 <MarkProffitt> Legal system, what a joy :P
 699 2013-12-09 09:39:47 pc_cc has joined
 700 2013-12-09 09:39:56 <MarkProffitt> The only reason for the buyer to not release the coins would be spite
 701 2013-12-09 09:39:59 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: I don't see why it's better if I can then destroy the cash other than spite
 702 2013-12-09 09:40:11 <stonecoldpat> i think its been done 1 sec
 703 2013-12-09 09:40:24 <MarkProffitt> This would be a totally private escrow system
 704 2013-12-09 09:40:32 selocc has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
 705 2013-12-09 09:40:49 <MarkProffitt> Buyer provides payment address
 706 2013-12-09 09:40:59 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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 709 2013-12-09 09:41:55 <stonecoldpat> MarkProffitt: Do you mean http://crypto.stanford.edu/~xb/fc12/bitcoin.pdf look at chapter 7
 710 2013-12-09 09:42:03 ericmuyser has joined
 711 2013-12-09 09:42:12 <stonecoldpat> 7.1*
 712 2013-12-09 09:42:25 <sunspotbtc> MarkProffitt: destroying value doesn't seem useful to me, I'd rather be able to sue to get it back than destroy it
 713 2013-12-09 09:42:47 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 714 2013-12-09 09:42:55 <sunspotbtc> at least I've got a shot at getting it, and annoying the person who screwed me over by suing them LOL
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 719 2013-12-09 09:48:38 <MarkProffitt> stonecoldpat, yes, 7.1 sounds similar to what I described.  It talks about some timeout which I'm not sure how that would work and if that would defeat the point.
 720 2013-12-09 09:49:20 <stonecoldpat> MarkProffitt: I think the point of the time out - is to make sure that the transaction eventually ends - so if your building me a house and its not done within a year - i'll want my money back
 721 2013-12-09 09:49:23 <stonecoldpat> to prevent deadlock
 722 2013-12-09 09:49:56 pc_c has joined
 723 2013-12-09 09:50:24 <MarkProffitt> Yes but that sort of defeats the point of selling something to a stranger on the otherside of the world. They will have the product and just wait for the automatic return.
 724 2013-12-09 09:50:56 <stonecoldpat> thats true, but you have that problem with money anyway? though you could wait for payment before sending them an item
 725 2013-12-09 09:51:03 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 726 2013-12-09 09:51:27 <stonecoldpat> i suppose an improvement - would be that the other end must 'fill in a code' to verify they received the product ?
 727 2013-12-09 09:51:33 <MarkProffitt> If you wait for payment then the customer could be screwed if the seller doesn't send the product
 728 2013-12-09 09:52:51 <MarkProffitt> Yes, the customer confirming receipt and unlocking the cash only to the seller is the point.  It is cryptographic escrow system.
 729 2013-12-09 09:53:12 pc_cc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 730 2013-12-09 09:53:40 <nell> If one were to integrate bitcoin into a payout system for a video game
 731 2013-12-09 09:53:47 edulix has joined
 732 2013-12-09 09:53:58 <stonecoldpat> i suppose in the only benefit without the time out - neither party will receive the funds
 733 2013-12-09 09:54:09 <nell> well...has anyone actually done something of the like already?
 734 2013-12-09 09:54:13 <stonecoldpat> it removes the ability to get a refund - but you can stop the other person getting rich
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 737 2013-12-09 09:54:25 ThomasZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 740 2013-12-09 09:55:47 <MarkProffitt> stonecoldpat, and each party could still try to use a legal system if that were appropriate.
 741 2013-12-09 09:56:07 porquilho has joined
 742 2013-12-09 09:56:28 <stonecoldpat> yes
 743 2013-12-09 09:56:35 <stonecoldpat> so you could just modify their protocol and remove the time out
 744 2013-12-09 09:57:18 <stonecoldpat> only problem i see - is theres no incentive for the buyer to do the second step
 745 2013-12-09 09:57:36 <stonecoldpat> if i buy something on the internet, i set up escrow, but once i receive the item i might not be bothered doing the second step
 746 2013-12-09 09:58:03 <stonecoldpat> an incentive could be - an extra 10% of the transaction is kept - and the buyer will only receive their 10% back (bit like a deposit) once the transaction is cleared
 747 2013-12-09 09:58:04 <sunspotbtc> stonecoldpat: if it's software, maybe it could be built into the activation code somehow
 748 2013-12-09 09:58:06 <stonecoldpat> on both the buyer / seller end ?
 749 2013-12-09 09:58:23 msvb-lab has quit (Quit: msvb-lab)
 750 2013-12-09 09:58:28 <sunspotbtc> stonecoldpat: 'break the seal' and the escrow gets released
 751 2013-12-09 09:58:51 <stonecoldpat> yeah i imagine it would work that way
 752 2013-12-09 09:59:01 <stonecoldpat> but if you buy a physical item - it still requires some interaction doesnt it
 753 2013-12-09 09:59:09 <sunspotbtc> delivery confirmation
 754 2013-12-09 09:59:16 marcb has joined
 755 2013-12-09 09:59:20 <sunspotbtc> there are apis for that these days
 756 2013-12-09 10:00:28 marcb has quit (Client Quit)
 757 2013-12-09 10:00:39 <sunspotbtc> I haven't played with bitcoin scripts but in theory they could be configured to ping an api, no?
 758 2013-12-09 10:00:49 * sunspotbtc goes out on a limb
 759 2013-12-09 10:02:39 <stonecoldpat> haha, i dont think the actual transaction scripts (the ones that claim for them to be valid) can at the moment (i could be wrong) but a client watching transactions could do that if its looking for a special type of transaction
 760 2013-12-09 10:03:34 <sunspotbtc> stonecoldpat: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts
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 764 2013-12-09 10:04:23 <stonecoldpat> yeah
 765 2013-12-09 10:04:26 <stonecoldpat> "Scripts are, by design, pure functions. They cannot poll external servers or import any state that may change as it would allow an attacker to outrun the block chain. What's more, the scripting language is extremely limited in what it can do. Fortunately, we can make transactions connected to the world in other ways. "
 766 2013-12-09 10:04:39 <sunspotbtc> Example 4: Using external state
 767 2013-12-09 10:04:42 <sunspotbtc> yea
 768 2013-12-09 10:04:45 <sunspotbtc> just about to say
 769 2013-12-09 10:05:23 <stonecoldpat> yeah thats just a server listening for transactions from what im reading - but its been done which is good
 770 2013-12-09 10:05:52 <sunspotbtc> so bitcoin is time aware within reason and can employ oracles
 771 2013-12-09 10:05:57 <sunspotbtc> win
 772 2013-12-09 10:06:37 <sunspotbtc> but establishing 'truth' is a hard problem
 773 2013-12-09 10:07:30 <sunspotbtc> you either have to trust a third party service in which case it might as well be an escrow
 774 2013-12-09 10:08:01 <sunspotbtc> well .. there isn't an or condition lol
 775 2013-12-09 10:08:09 <sunspotbtc> truth requires trust
 776 2013-12-09 10:08:10 linagee_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 777 2013-12-09 10:09:15 <sunspotbtc> I like that bitcoin doesn't require trust for establishing the truth of time
 778 2013-12-09 10:09:44 <sunspotbtc> I wonder if that concept could be expanded to establish other 'facts'
 779 2013-12-09 10:09:46 ircuser-6 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 780 2013-12-09 10:10:14 <sunspotbtc> problem is that concensus isn't the best way to establish all facts I guess
 781 2013-12-09 10:10:30 * sunspotbtc rambles on
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 784 2013-12-09 10:11:24 <MarkProffitt> The blockchain could be used as a property registry for titles to land or a car.
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 789 2013-12-09 10:13:44 <sunspotbtc> is pushpool still the best pool server? looks like it hasn't had any love in a few months
 790 2013-12-09 10:13:52 <stonecoldpat> its a relatively secure time stamp server - so is useful to say you made an agreement at a certain period of time
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 801 2013-12-09 10:30:51 <stonecoldpat> in bitcoind - once you have a CTransaction - whats the best way to get a previous transaction its linked too? (So get the transaction related to the first input? )
 802 2013-12-09 10:31:54 <gavinandresen> wumpus: 0.8.6*/gavinandresen gitian sigs pushed
 803 2013-12-09 10:32:40 <grau> gavinandersen: I struggle tu understand why satoshi thinks a transaction would be nonstandard with: ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : nonstandard transaction input
 804 2013-12-09 10:32:54 <grau> I ubly have PUSH in scriptSig
 805 2013-12-09 10:33:00 <grau> only I mean
 806 2013-12-09 10:33:22 <grau> gavinandresen:^
 807 2013-12-09 10:33:26 mynameis has quit (Quit: mynameis)
 808 2013-12-09 10:33:46 <grau> 0100000002201ac3bea02ec2c3dcc86b123e5e0c53290e58ea5f7bf47154afbaec4f25c00700000000fdfe000000473044022022240b411509a86d9d092d0dfab636e981d36a19a5d3d20017f770173a3170ac02204fa7276400f3edea34b49edc9b0363e1be1ecdb017e8c74ba3ce56119715e2df0148304502205cd3a7972a7a4253b24b5607a18d60bdbc8d749de03ae1e68452ce5b0b559e75022100d929fb1cbf6191be76f379d4a24f6c5e89a58a4c45c437f3feaf27597688f33b014c695221031d11db38972b712a9fe1fc023577c7ae3ddb4a3004187d41c45121ee
 809 2013-12-09 10:33:46 <grau> cfdbb5b7210207ec36911b6ad2382860d32989c7b8728e9489d7bbc94a6b5509ef0029be128821024ea9fac06f666a4adc3fc1357b7bec1fd0bdece2b9d08579226a8ebde53058e453aeffffffff2312503f2491a2a97fcd775f11e108a540a5528b5d4dee7a3c68ae4add01dab300000000fd010100004930460221009f705343b234ce23814fb2487468bada931a87038194010dcb897e5fea48926e02210088e5fba6c25660fadc3f45f62590dbbf61eda188b42ecfcaa3f429405d31921e014930460221008ecf4cb533f31f160dcf1475fbfdb08768e8d89d058c61a341
 810 2013-12-09 10:33:46 <grau> 6ac69f7dda73e1022100829e47757b481413790846bb8c4f35ced12a52169eb53f3cecb39eaa618af095014c695221031d11db38972b712a9fe1fc023577c7ae3ddb4a3004187d41c45121eecfdbb5b7210207ec36911b6ad2382860d32989c7b8728e9489d7bbc94a6b5509ef0029be128821024ea9fac06f666a4adc3fc1357b7bec1fd0bdece2b9d08579226a8ebde53058e453aeffffffff02a0860100000000001976a914c9b99cddf847d10685a4fabaa0baf505f7c3dfab88ac701101000000000017a914b1ce99298d5f07364b57b1e5c9cc00be0b04a95487000000
 811 2013-12-09 10:33:48 <grau> 00
 812 2013-12-09 10:33:55 <gavinandresen> grau: standard rules have become more strict over time-- maybe a non-canonical encoding of one of the signatures?  sipa might know
 813 2013-12-09 10:34:01 MarkProffitt has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
 814 2013-12-09 10:34:18 <gavinandresen> … and I think git HEAD might give more verbose reasons for why something is judged non-standard
 815 2013-12-09 10:34:28 <grau> thanks
 816 2013-12-09 10:36:34 Starduster has joined
 817 2013-12-09 10:38:32 <grau> gavinandresen: is a multi signature redemption script in P2SH also non-standard?
 818 2013-12-09 10:40:16 <gavinandresen> The normal IsStandard scripts are standard in P2SH
 819 2013-12-09 10:41:27 <gavinandresen> There is a check; if the P2SH redemption script is NOT standard, then the transaction is not standard. But I believe there is also a bug, and some multisig redemption scripts are considered standard in a P2SH (e.g. you can get away with putting a 1-of-4 in a P2SH)
 820 2013-12-09 10:41:50 <gavinandresen> There's also a maximum-of- … uhhh… 500?  200?  bytes in a scriptSig.
 821 2013-12-09 10:42:29 tonokip has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 822 2013-12-09 10:43:11 <grau> I am trying to use a 2-of-3 redemption script
 823 2013-12-09 10:43:26 <gavinandresen> 500 bytes max for scriptsig.  2-of-3 redemption script should fit.
 824 2013-12-09 10:43:28 <grau> that is non-standard?
 825 2013-12-09 10:43:57 <gavinandresen> … and should be standard. Can you pastebin the decoderawtransaction <hex>  from bitcoind?
 826 2013-12-09 10:44:10 <grau> maybe because one output is P2SH othe other is P2Address and inputs are from P2SH
 827 2013-12-09 10:44:48 <gavinandresen> that shouldn't matter.  If the whole transaction is > 100kilobytes then it would be considered non-standard.
 828 2013-12-09 10:44:56 <grau> http://pastebin.com/AVtH6BLt
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 830 2013-12-09 10:48:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Who made fetchtx.info again?
 831 2013-12-09 10:49:07 <gavinandresen> grau: there's an extra OP_0 at the beginning of your scriptSig...
 832 2013-12-09 10:49:19 <stonecoldpat> mmm, do you guys know of a way to verify a script given the transaction hash (or the raw transaction)?
 833 2013-12-09 10:49:44 rd_ has left ()
 834 2013-12-09 10:49:44 <grau> I know, dows it not qualify as push? That is the placeholder for the 3rd signature
 835 2013-12-09 10:49:45 <grau> ?
 836 2013-12-09 10:50:18 <sipa> it may not
 837 2013-12-09 10:51:08 <gavinandresen> CHECKMULTISIG doesn't use placeholders-- a 2-of-3 expects  OP_0 (to workaround a bug) <sig1> <sig2> OP_2  <pubkey1> <pubkey2> OP_3 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
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 841 2013-12-09 10:51:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does anyone remember who created fetchtx.info? There's a bug in there, and the whois data is one of those anonymizing services
 842 2013-12-09 10:51:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: No <pubkey3>?
 843 2013-12-09 10:52:05 <gavinandresen> sorry, right, <pubkey3>
 844 2013-12-09 10:52:42 <grau> ok thank you very much, I take out the placeholder. It was handy to see which signatures are on.
 845 2013-12-09 10:53:44 <gavinandresen> I'm not sure if the extra OP_0 would make it non-standard, though. Not sure we've implemented the "standard transactions must leave exactly one value on the stack" rule yet.
 846 2013-12-09 10:53:45 wei__ has joined
 847 2013-12-09 10:54:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Did a new checkpoint go in for 0.8.6?
 848 2013-12-09 10:54:45 <gavinandresen> michagogo|cloud: no
 849 2013-12-09 10:55:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;blocks
 850 2013-12-09 10:55:08 <gribble> 273957
 851 2013-12-09 10:55:28 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 852 2013-12-09 10:55:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google --lucky checkpoint.cpp inurl:bitcoin site:github.com
 853 2013-12-09 10:55:32 <gribble> Google found nothing.
 854 2013-12-09 10:55:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google --lucky checkpoints.cpp inurl:bitcoin site:github.com
 855 2013-12-09 10:55:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/checkpoints.cpp
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 860 2013-12-09 10:58:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;calc [blocks] - 250000
 861 2013-12-09 10:58:39 <gribble> 23958
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 863 2013-12-09 10:59:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, looks like the "when does a new checkpoint go in" has been somewhat inconsistent: http://pastebin.com/2gdP0Fg7
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 869 2013-12-09 11:07:57 <grau> gavinandresen: yes, that was it for the nonstandard. Now I am fighting with the signature.
 870 2013-12-09 11:10:42 <grau> gavinandresen: While computing the transaction hash for signature in case of P2SH: The scriptSig is replaced with the redemption script, right?
 871 2013-12-09 11:10:51 <wumpus> gavinandresen: all three match
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 878 2013-12-09 11:22:06 <edcba> fucking taxes that depends on age of goods sold... that seems quite complex with bitcoins
 879 2013-12-09 11:25:46 <grau> gavinandresen: How does this apply in BIP16 if there are several P2SH inputs/outputs in the same transaction?: 3. {serialized script} is popped off the initial stack, and the transaction is validated again using the popped stack and the deserialized script as the scriptPubKey.
 880 2013-12-09 11:26:06 <grau> while hashing for signature all P2SH replaced ?
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 886 2013-12-09 11:30:45 <MoALTz> does bitcoin-qt ever just dump an orphan block into the blk0*n.day files?
 887 2013-12-09 11:31:03 <MoALTz> *dat
 888 2013-12-09 11:33:06 <wumpus> yes
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 890 2013-12-09 11:34:20 <wumpus> just assume it dumps all blocks into thre
 891 2013-12-09 11:34:35 <MoALTz> quite some distance. the orphan claims depth 229636, but placed where block 231300 should be
 892 2013-12-09 11:34:47 <MoALTz> ok, i'll check as i parse the files then. thanks
 893 2013-12-09 11:34:57 <wumpus> you should not make any assumptions on the blocks in there
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 897 2013-12-09 11:35:33 <wumpus> just check them as if received from the network
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 911 2013-12-09 12:01:38 <Cocodude> I've been compiling the stable version of bitcoind to work on arch armhf. Syncing seems to stop randomly though with debug.log messages like "Flushed 9598 addresses to peers.dat  146ms" repeated every few minutes. Any idea what could be causing this?
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 920 2013-12-09 12:20:49 <hmsimha> does anyone know if the order that the outputs are listed in when a transaction is made is preserved by all nodes throughout the network? AKA is it possible the order the outputs are listed in will get changed as the transaction propogates throughout the network?
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 925 2013-12-09 12:25:30 <andytoshi> Cocodude: "seems to stop randomly" may be normal? validation is pretty cpu-intensive
 926 2013-12-09 12:25:51 <andytoshi> those peers.dat messages are not a problem anyway
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 928 2013-12-09 12:26:37 <andytoshi> hmsimha: this is not possible, when you sign the transaction the outputs are locked in place
 929 2013-12-09 12:27:02 <andytoshi> if somebody reordered them it'd invalidate the signature
 930 2013-12-09 12:27:08 <hmsimha> awesome, thank you
 931 2013-12-09 12:27:18 <Cocodude> andytoshi: It looks like it's stopped fully though, with no further debug.log messages for at least 30 minutes
 932 2013-12-09 12:27:35 <Cocodude> andytoshi: And top shows bitcoind with near 0% CPU usage (usr, nice and iowait on Linux)
 933 2013-12-09 12:27:41 <andytoshi> hmmm, both of those are weird
 934 2013-12-09 12:27:47 <Cocodude> andytoshi: So I don't think it's doing muche
 935 2013-12-09 12:28:07 <Cocodude> I'm going to try the new 0.8.6 to see if it's magically been fixed
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 937 2013-12-09 12:28:34 <andytoshi> cool -- i think gmaxwell has an arm system somewhere, so my suspicion is that this has been tried recently
 938 2013-12-09 12:29:08 <andytoshi> hmsimha: if you are concerned that the transaction hash could be changed on you, check out https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability
 939 2013-12-09 12:29:21 <Cocodude> andytoshi: Great, I'll keep you posted. It'll take probably 1-2 hours to compile so I'll check back after that
 940 2013-12-09 12:30:07 <andytoshi> cool. hopefully by end of december i'll get around to installing a useful OS on my phone so i can play with arm
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 946 2013-12-09 12:36:24 <hmsimha> andytoshi: i'm not sure I followed that. It seems to imply, as another article I read did, that transactions are malleable to an extent. The other article did say the recepients and amounts are not malleable, and that in practice they will not be changed. But I'm wondering if the order would be malleable in theory
 947 2013-12-09 12:36:57 <sipa> the order is not malleable
 948 2013-12-09 12:38:07 <sipa> sources of malleability i know of are non-canonical signatures, the inherent malleability in ECDSA signatures (positive/negative s value), unused data pushes in scriptSig, and whatever you consciously allow through the sighash types
 949 2013-12-09 12:38:41 <hmsimha> ok excellent
 950 2013-12-09 12:40:32 <grau> sipa: could you help me figuring why a transaction does not evaluate in satoshi?
 951 2013-12-09 12:40:49 <sipa> grau: sorry, no time now
 952 2013-12-09 12:40:59 <grau> ok, thanks
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 961 2013-12-09 12:57:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;seen feddy3
 962 2013-12-09 12:57:30 <gribble> feddy3 was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <feddy3> better to use the blockchain itself as your xor source
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 964 2013-12-09 12:59:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell feddy3 I don't know if/when you'll see this, but fetchtx.info has a bug: when it does its output interpretations and it sees a p2sh output, it converts to base58 as if it were a pay-to-pubkey-hash address (version byte 0)
 965 2013-12-09 12:59:50 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1006 2013-12-09 13:29:23 <gavinandresen> wumpus: https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.6/  should be ready for announcement.  It'd be nice to get another gitian builder before announcing; I'm headed to sleep now
1007 2013-12-09 13:30:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, how come http://bitcoin.org/en/download links to the sf download page for the bootstrap.dat.torrent?
1008 2013-12-09 13:30:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(rather than the forum thread)
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1015 2013-12-09 13:37:40 <Lifeofcray> guys, what's the recomended stats for a server
1016 2013-12-09 13:37:43 <Lifeofcray> to run a pool on?
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1018 2013-12-09 13:38:11 <Lifeofcray> say 50-100 workers
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1026 2013-12-09 13:54:46 <maveneagle> Hi, I am trying to implement a bitcoin miner (for learning purpose), but i am unable to find a very detailed specification to start with. i am looking for something like an RFC
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1028 2013-12-09 13:55:31 <kinlo> Lifeofcray: public pool or private?
1029 2013-12-09 13:56:04 <maveneagle> private
1030 2013-12-09 13:56:07 <kinlo> maveneagle: go look on the wiki, it explains the details.  But real RFC-like documents don't exist...
1031 2013-12-09 13:56:21 <sipa> ;;google site:bitcoin.it block hashing algorithm
1032 2013-12-09 13:56:22 <gribble> Block hashing algorithm - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm>; Protocol specification - Bitcoin: <http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/protocol_specification>; Talk:Block hashing algorithm - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Block_hashing_algorithm>
1033 2013-12-09 13:56:24 <sipa> ^
1034 2013-12-09 13:56:28 <kinlo> maveneagle: anything capable of running the bitcoind should be able to manage that many people using stratum
1035 2013-12-09 13:56:53 <kinlo> bitcoind is much more power hungry then a decent poolserver
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1039 2013-12-09 13:59:42 <grau> sipa: any chance you can help me with signing a P2SH ?
1040 2013-12-09 14:02:31 <sipa> grau: sorry, i really don't have enough time for bitcoin stuff i want to work on, much less to be a helpdesk :)
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1043 2013-12-09 14:04:15 <maveneagle> kinlo : just a quick glimpse of the wiki gives me lot of details about the structure of the messages, hashing algorithms used etc. but there is no overview of the protocol handshake that happens between the miner with other peers
1044 2013-12-09 14:04:16 <kinlo> grau: just ask your question on the channel, agreed, not everybody is as clever as sipa, but I'm sure more people can help you :)
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1047 2013-12-09 14:04:55 <grau> I was not thinking of this request as for a helpdesk. satoshi seem to build transaction hash for signature some wierd way I can not reproduce.
1048 2013-12-09 14:05:28 <kinlo> maveneagle: what do you want to investigate, the bitcoin protocol?  Coz basicly, a miner program (enduser) connects to a miner daemon (poolserver) which connects to a bitcoind
1049 2013-12-09 14:05:43 <kinlo> and the bitcoind talks to other bitcoind's using the bitcoin p2p protocol
1050 2013-12-09 14:06:05 <kinlo> miners do not talk to eachother directly,
1051 2013-12-09 14:06:27 <grau> There is 12b market cap and no one is funded to finally document this beast.
1052 2013-12-09 14:06:59 <grau> It is lunatic. I do what I do to end this.
1053 2013-12-09 14:07:16 <kinlo> grau: did you read the wiki?  that contains a lot of data
1054 2013-12-09 14:07:24 <kinlo> and you're always free to update the wiki :)
1055 2013-12-09 14:08:02 <grau> kinlo: I wrote a fucking full implementation of this protocol
1056 2013-12-09 14:08:03 <maveneagle> kinlo: yes, i wanted to investigate the bitcoin protocol, sorry for the confusion I got confused with the bitcoin miner and the bitcoind to be the same entity.
1057 2013-12-09 14:08:17 <grau> If I knew what is missing I would put it on there
1058 2013-12-09 14:08:43 <maveneagle> kinlo:i am very new to bitcoin, spent just a couple of days to know how it works on a high level
1059 2013-12-09 14:08:47 <grau> It is a joke that I have to figure what subtle error is in satoshi, so it creates a hash that it signs
1060 2013-12-09 14:09:00 <kinlo> maveneagle: did you read the wiki?  it explains a lot of the inner workings
1061 2013-12-09 14:09:26 <maveneagle> kinlo: sure, thanks.
1062 2013-12-09 14:09:29 <kinlo> grau: well, you'll have to deal with it.  If you can't find the answer in the wiki, go look in the code or ask....
1063 2013-12-09 14:09:57 <kinlo> I agree that the documentation needs work, but hey, at least there is already a lot
1064 2013-12-09 14:10:01 <grau> I look at the code since days. I ask but was told its not a helpdesk.
1065 2013-12-09 14:10:28 <kinlo> just ask your question instead of asking someone if he has time...
1066 2013-12-09 14:11:00 <grau> forget it.
1067 2013-12-09 14:11:36 <grau> I know enough to know that I am hunting a bug in satoshi. It is not a user level question.
1068 2013-12-09 14:12:03 <kinlo> ...
1069 2013-12-09 14:13:35 <gmaxwell> How does your full implementation validate the transactions if you can't generate a signature? Don't you already have code for this?
1070 2013-12-09 14:14:39 <gmaxwell> In any case, no one is likely to respond to unbounded requests for help, make up a page with your findings so far, example data in and out where it disagrees, etc.
1071 2013-12-09 14:15:11 <edcba> there is a bug somewhere ?
1072 2013-12-09 14:16:01 <kinlo> there is someone being difficult about something he refuses to explain and expects help ? :)
1073 2013-12-09 14:16:27 <gmaxwell> kinlo: surely you've been frustrated before. :)
1074 2013-12-09 14:16:38 <grau> gmaxwell: yes I am frustrated.
1075 2013-12-09 14:16:57 <kinlo> gmaxwell: plenty of times, like right now, I was just trying to help
1076 2013-12-09 14:17:02 <edcba> gmaxwell: of course he did read the whole bitcoin client :)
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1078 2013-12-09 14:17:28 <grau> I am trying to figure what is wrong since long and satoshi code makes me choke
1079 2013-12-09 14:17:46 <edcba> try reading bitcoinj maybe
1080 2013-12-09 14:17:58 <grau> bitcoinj does not have P2SH
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1082 2013-12-09 14:18:42 <gmaxwell> grau: the signing and validation code are almost the same, since the validation code must compute the same hash.
1083 2013-12-09 14:19:55 <edcba> you could validate with return true; and so not calculating the same hash :)
1084 2013-12-09 14:19:57 <grau> there is some difference I can not figure. I use the redemption script in place of the scriptPubKey and it validates fine with my node, but rejected by satoshi
1085 2013-12-09 14:20:12 <edcba> haha
1086 2013-12-09 14:20:24 <grau> the hash in this case computed for signature is somehow different
1087 2013-12-09 14:20:33 <edcba> ok then i guess the problem is in your side grau
1088 2013-12-09 14:20:44 <grau> The problem is always on my side
1089 2013-12-09 14:20:48 <grau> by definition
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1091 2013-12-09 14:21:01 <edcba> yeah sortof
1092 2013-12-09 14:21:07 <grau> it does not matter if satoshi does whatever bullshit it has to be replicated
1093 2013-12-09 14:21:13 <edcba> some endianness issue again ?
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1099 2013-12-09 14:23:22 <grau> out of curiosity: anyone uses P2SH?
1100 2013-12-09 14:23:25 <gmaxwell> grau: you use the redemption script and it validates? then your scriptsig is wrong. A p2sh scriptsig would have another item (the serialized redemption script) on the stack.
1101 2013-12-09 14:24:16 <gmaxwell> grau: perhaps go look at the bitrated.com source code, if reading javascript is more to your liking.
1102 2013-12-09 14:24:31 <gmaxwell> But I cannot understand how you have implemented a full node and don't already compute the required hashes.
1103 2013-12-09 14:26:31 <grau> gmaxwell it would really help me if you could tell what the digest would have to be that I would have to sign to make  http://pastebin.com/qDweAzt2 valid
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1107 2013-12-09 14:27:20 <abishek> Good Evening. Could someone suggest how to transfer an address from one wallet to another using the bitcoind daemon
1108 2013-12-09 14:27:26 <grau> gmaxwell: it validates all test cases and transactions on the blockchain, but now I am trying to compile a "wierd" transaction myself
1109 2013-12-09 14:28:02 <gmaxwell> grau: there are plenty of P2SH transactions in the blockchain, including 2 of 3 ones.
1110 2013-12-09 14:28:08 <kjj> abishek: dumpprivkey <address> ; importprivkey <key>  - but you probably don't want to do that
1111 2013-12-09 14:28:12 <wumpus> abishek: just don't go that way if you want to keep your sanity, simply send the coins to another wallet using a transaction
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1113 2013-12-09 14:28:29 <abishek> ok
1114 2013-12-09 14:28:37 <grau> gmaxwell: that does not help to spot where I am building the wrong hash for signature
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1116 2013-12-09 14:29:17 <abishek> how to implement a blockchain like feature to export a wallet with the list of addresses that were created?
1117 2013-12-09 14:29:42 <gmaxwell> grau: but how can you be? if you are you should be failing to validate transactions on the network. E.g. you should be able to feed your own transaction through your validation code and get the hashes that you should have.
1118 2013-12-09 14:30:06 <grau> That is the point, it passes my validation
1119 2013-12-09 14:30:14 <grau> but not satoshis
1120 2013-12-09 14:31:33 <gmaxwell> does it still pass your validation if you flip some bytes in one or both of the signatures?
1121 2013-12-09 14:31:54 <Cocodude> andytoshi / gmaxwell: I can confirm that I still have the issue whereby syncing pauses under ARM (armhf) with bitcoind 0.8.6
1122 2013-12-09 14:31:55 <abishek> can a blockchain export be used to create a wallet using bitcoin-qt? Import the file and create a wallet?
1123 2013-12-09 14:32:22 <gmaxwell> (the reason I ask is that the hashing behavior is tight, it's hard to get a wrong answer in just one case.
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1126 2013-12-09 14:32:42 <gmaxwell> )
1127 2013-12-09 14:32:49 <grau> gmaxwell: it only passes with two correct signatures (correct in the sense of my implementation)
1128 2013-12-09 14:33:31 <kjj> I think he's trying to ask "does it pass with 2 signatures or with 2 correct signatures?"
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1130 2013-12-09 14:34:20 <gmaxwell> right, if there is something disagreeing between the hashing in your implementation and bitcoin-qt I'd expect you to fail to validate the multisigs already in the chain.
1131 2013-12-09 14:34:21 <grau> Thanks for the hints. let me try to forge the sigs.
1132 2013-12-09 14:34:22 <andytoshi> Cocodude: sorry, i don't have the hardware to test this right now
1133 2013-12-09 14:34:43 <gmaxwell> Unless there was some other bug where you failed but the failure was silent and it still passed.
1134 2013-12-09 14:34:47 <Cocodude> andytoshi: I can probably give you access to hardware remotely if you like.
1135 2013-12-09 14:34:56 <grau> gmaxwell: I have not observed such a disagreement yet before.
1136 2013-12-09 14:35:01 <gmaxwell> your transaction looks pretty normal to me, at least.
1137 2013-12-09 14:35:23 <grau> I am back after forging the signatures
1138 2013-12-09 14:35:26 <andytoshi> Cocodude: thanks, but i'm too busy this week :s
1139 2013-12-09 14:35:30 <Cocodude> andytoshi: The consistent thing I've noticed is that this always happens after a "send version message", in this case "version 70001, blocks=210242, us=109.158.128.43:8333, them=78.107.237.199:8333, peer=78.107.237.199:8333"
1140 2013-12-09 14:35:34 <gmaxwell> grau: well, if you only erroniously pass invalid things, you might not have. In any case, thats just what I'd check first in my code. Good luck.
1141 2013-12-09 14:35:59 <andytoshi> hmm
1142 2013-12-09 14:36:02 <Cocodude> andytoshi: OK. Just a quick theory though - what happens if bitcoind sends a "send version message" but never receives a response. Presumably this shouldn't lock up things?
1143 2013-12-09 14:36:20 <gmaxwell> Cocodude: it's normal for syncing to pause, usually when a peer gets disconnected. It will continue at the next block.
1144 2013-12-09 14:36:32 <abishek> Is there a way to send a private transaction that is not public on blockchain?
1145 2013-12-09 14:36:49 <andytoshi> y'know, i don't see any send version messages in my debug.log..
1146 2013-12-09 14:36:56 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: I did wait > 30 minutes last time. I'll wait a bit longer and see if another block comes through in that time.
1147 2013-12-09 14:37:02 <andytoshi> i wonder if my ISP is blocking ports
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1149 2013-12-09 14:37:22 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: getpeerinfo and you can see if you have inbound and outbound stuff.
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1153 2013-12-09 14:37:46 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: OK, a block just came through according to blockchain. Presumably I should see bitcoind come alive again soon?
1154 2013-12-09 14:38:01 <gmaxwell> ;;tslb
1155 2013-12-09 14:38:01 <andytoshi> ok, i've got several peers with nonzero sent/recieved
1156 2013-12-09 14:38:09 <gribble> Time since last block: 1 minute and 0 seconds
1157 2013-12-09 14:38:11 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: but any inbound?
1158 2013-12-09 14:38:15 <kjj> abishek: not really, no
1159 2013-12-09 14:38:27 <andytoshi> nope <.<
1160 2013-12-09 14:38:43 <andytoshi> crap, i've been here for like 3 months..i should have checked on this
1161 2013-12-09 14:39:22 <andytoshi> can somebody nmap 172.17.104.65 ?
1162 2013-12-09 14:39:29 <Cocodude> Oh, as well, "bitcoind getinfo" doesn't return so I really think that bitcoind is unhappy here.
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1164 2013-12-09 14:39:44 <grau> gmaxwell: I forged the signatures and my node does not let it through. It is not that simple unfortunatelly.
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1166 2013-12-09 14:40:59 <Plarkplark_> Pleaes help. Trying to setup a few nodes
1167 2013-12-09 14:41:24 <Plarkplark_> ?
1168 2013-12-09 14:41:30 <Cocodude> andytoshi / gmaxwell: bitcoind is definitely not responding to RPC calls it seems
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1170 2013-12-09 14:41:54 <gmaxwell> grau: darn
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1172 2013-12-09 14:42:07 <gmaxwell> Cocodude: oh, it's not responding to RPC calls?! interesting.
1173 2013-12-09 14:42:12 <Cocodude> Actually, debug.log says "ThreadRPCServer method=getinfo" but I don't seem to get anything back
1174 2013-12-09 14:42:29 <gmaxwell> Cocodude: you're deadlocked. Perhaps a build with lock debugging would help you.
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1176 2013-12-09 14:43:06 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: Sounds likely. Let me try with just one thread first to see if it could be a threading thing
1177 2013-12-09 14:43:18 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: N.B. This seemed to work just fine on a single core ARM, it's just giving issues on a dual core
1178 2013-12-09 14:43:31 <andytoshi> oh, cool
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1180 2013-12-09 14:45:29 <Cocodude> (by trying "just one thread" I'm just setting -par 1)
1181 2013-12-09 14:47:02 <gmaxwell> grau: I will be leaving very shortly but if you are still having problems this evening I'll go instrument the software and see what hashes it returns. As I mentioned there is a JS implementation of multisig signing in bitrate you could try to look at to spot the issue. Another thing to check is how your var lengths are being seralized.
1182 2013-12-09 14:47:20 <gmaxwell> Cocodude: yea, thats far from "just one thread" I don't expect it to help but its an easy test.
1183 2013-12-09 14:47:41 * Cocodude nods
1184 2013-12-09 14:49:16 <grau> Thanks a lot gmaxwell, I will let you know whatever it is. It already helped emotionally that you gave some other perspective.
1185 2013-12-09 14:51:24 <gmaxwell> No problem. And yes— please let me know, it sounds like it may be an interesting testcase to include whatever it is
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1189 2013-12-09 14:57:10 <Cocodude> Looks like it deadlocked again, this time not with the "send version message" so that could have been a red herring
1190 2013-12-09 14:57:50 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: Any pointers for how to enable lock debugging and get some output when it deadlocks?
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1220 2013-12-09 15:12:24 <wumpus> Cocodude: -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER
1221 2013-12-09 15:13:59 <Cocodude> wumpus: Ta
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1249 2013-12-09 15:35:28 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #502: FAILURE in 42 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/502/
1250 2013-12-09 15:38:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: ping
1251 2013-12-09 15:39:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or any other chanop in here)
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1254 2013-12-09 15:40:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If someone on the ACL sees this: the topic is outdated
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1256 2013-12-09 15:42:13 <edcba> btw what is that critical bug in 0.8.6 ?
1257 2013-12-09 15:42:47 <edcba> it's nice to tell there is one fixed in changelog but telling which would be nicer :)
1258 2013-12-09 15:43:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|edcba: I'd imagine that refers to one or more of the bugs listed in the release notes
1259 2013-12-09 15:43:45 PotatoBadger has joined
1260 2013-12-09 15:45:12 <PotatoBadger> Has anyone ever had both Stratum and getwork accepting shares on :3333 and :8337 with eloipool, but Stratum silently does not log the shares? :\
1261 2013-12-09 15:45:23 <PotatoBadger> Willing to pay for help if it's out there.
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1269 2013-12-09 15:56:54 <helo> pqosrh6wfaucet32.onion:8333 (90 -> 100) DISCONNECTING
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1272 2013-12-09 16:00:26 <helo> that's one of the things fixed in 0.8.6?
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1275 2013-12-09 16:02:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|helo: what came before that line?
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1279 2013-12-09 16:03:49 <helo> yep, 'vin empty'
1280 2013-12-09 16:04:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|so yeah, that's fixed
1281 2013-12-09 16:05:11 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: why are you saying the topic is outdated?
1282 2013-12-09 16:05:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|0.8.5
1283 2013-12-09 16:05:38 <gmaxwell> oh the announcement is out, okay
1284 2013-12-09 16:05:49 imsaguy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1285 2013-12-09 16:06:01 <gmaxwell> the announcement wasn't out earlier and someone was being rather abrasive about it on the mailing list...
1286 2013-12-09 16:07:06 <kjj> yeah, anyone know who that guy is?  he popped up rather recently and has awfully strong opinions on how things should be done
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1289 2013-12-09 16:14:15 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1290 2013-12-09 16:14:25 Cryo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1291 2013-12-09 16:14:53 <saracen> what guy?
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1302 2013-12-09 16:21:42 <Luke-Jr[Q]> saracen: I presume the guy who's demanding changes to Bitcoin-Qt that suggest he is clueless
1303 2013-12-09 16:22:17 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
1304 2013-12-09 16:22:18 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #503: FIXED in 46 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/503/
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1312 2013-12-09 16:26:51 <saracen> Ah, I see who you mean now
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1315 2013-12-09 16:28:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google --lucky --snippet bitcoin development mailing list archives
1316 2013-12-09 16:28:43 <gribble> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development | Mailing Lists · bitcoin- ... Email Archive: bitcoin-development (read-only) ... Re: [ Bitcoin-development] Move authorative source for BIPs to git repository, Wladimir  ...
1317 2013-12-09 16:29:24 <gmaxwell> fail :P
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1319 2013-12-09 16:30:00 <saracen> :(
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1324 2013-12-09 16:31:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Drak?
1325 2013-12-09 16:32:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: Hmm?
1326 2013-12-09 16:32:50 <saracen> Oh, yeah. Drak. I thought your googling was to tell me I could have googled, rather than asked questions :)
1327 2013-12-09 16:33:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|saracen: Nah, I was getting the link for myself
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1339 2013-12-09 16:46:57 <amiller> does bitcoind not respond to getheaders messages now?
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1343 2013-12-09 16:51:05 <duckxx> Ìû
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1347 2013-12-09 16:53:19 <gmaxwell> amiller: sure it does.
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1361 2013-12-09 17:06:41 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #504: FAILURE in 44 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/504/
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1400 2013-12-09 17:38:03 <grau> gnaxwell: I could not find any reason for the difference, but belive more that this is some kind of serialization difference of the script popped from stack. It seems it executes identically but has different digest for me.
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1403 2013-12-09 17:38:45 <grau> gmaxwell:^
1404 2013-12-09 17:39:25 <grau> I do not know if related but strange that on https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071/raw/1f6cfa4208bc82ee5039876b4f065a705ce64df7/TwoOfThree.sh
1405 2013-12-09 17:40:03 <grau> the last transaction computes a different hash on http://brainwallet.org/#tx
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1407 2013-12-09 17:40:35 <grau> I first thought that brainwallet is broken, but other non P2SH transactions compute to the correct hash
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1431 2013-12-09 18:03:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, known bug, no time to fix (yet)
1432 2013-12-09 18:03:33 <BlueMatt> looks worse today than it usually is, though
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1439 2013-12-09 18:12:13 <stonecoldpat> guys, the createrawtransaction api is being a bit weird on a mac, has anyone got experience with it? my format is [{:"txid":"address_of_tx","vout":1}]''{"address_of_new_owner":1.9}'
1440 2013-12-09 18:12:39 <stonecoldpat> ive tried doing escape characters etc - but it informs me its unable to parse the json?
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1442 2013-12-09 18:14:07 <btiefert> .
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1444 2013-12-09 18:14:25 <btiefert> stonecoldpat, You might want to validate the json seperately.  I use the "jq" utility to do that from the command line.
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1449 2013-12-09 18:17:56 <stonecoldpat> jq is it a plugin?
1450 2013-12-09 18:17:58 <stonecoldpat> or is it default
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1454 2013-12-09 18:18:57 <andytoshi> i wonder if you could validate using javascript: links in firefox?
1455 2013-12-09 18:20:16 <wumpus> or firefox' javascript console
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1457 2013-12-09 18:21:41 <kjj> stonecoldpat: does it tell you which part it is having problems with?  it is almost certainly an escape problem.  also, don't forget about change
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1459 2013-12-09 18:22:33 <kjj> also, I can spot 3 problems with your example.  I presume those are only in your example, and not in your actual attempt
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1462 2013-12-09 18:24:33 <stonecoldpat> i went online to find a validator and that seems to have helped, but ti still doesnt work - heres my attempt
1463 2013-12-09 18:24:39 <stonecoldpat> [{"txid": "f084d3fa086a8685add85ff7abff76cb86813c85b097090ec275135da86b91fc","vout": 1}]{"mpJrNCVP7AMo2PLTUpzr8PxWT7sG8YC1aw": 1.9979}
1464 2013-12-09 18:24:51 <stonecoldpat> i left 0.0010 out of the transaction for the fee - and this is all on testnet
1465 2013-12-09 18:25:09 <stonecoldpat> the error i got was Error parsing JSON: [{txid:
1466 2013-12-09 18:25:21 <stonecoldpat> I tried putting \ before each " as well :(
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1471 2013-12-09 18:27:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|stonecoldpat: '[{"txid": "f084d3fa086a8685add85ff7abff76cb86813c85b097090ec275135da86b91fc","vout": 1}]' '{"mpJrNCVP7AMo2PLTUpzr8PxWT7sG8YC1aw": 1.9979}'
1472 2013-12-09 18:27:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(also, no need for a space after the :, but it doesn't hurt either)
1473 2013-12-09 18:27:54 <stonecoldpat> ahh that worked! your a star
1474 2013-12-09 18:28:18 <stonecoldpat> ah ok
1475 2013-12-09 18:29:07 <stonecoldpat> and i assume by leaving out 0.001 from the transaction - that allows the miners to claim it ?
1476 2013-12-09 18:29:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Correct
1477 2013-12-09 18:30:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|When dealing with raw transactions, fees=inputs-outputs
1478 2013-12-09 18:30:54 <kjj> lack of space between the 2 parameters?
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1480 2013-12-09 18:31:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which is very important to remember, because if you spend an input larger than the output(s) you want to create, you must add a change output
1481 2013-12-09 18:31:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kjj: lack of 's around the parameters
1482 2013-12-09 18:31:48 <stonecoldpat> yeah
1483 2013-12-09 18:31:59 <stonecoldpat> i understand :) i've stored a copy of the tx as well
1484 2013-12-09 18:32:08 <stonecoldpat> for find + replacing in the future
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1486 2013-12-09 18:32:40 <kjj> does the current version emit a warning if the fees are too high?
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1490 2013-12-09 18:34:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kjj: If by current you mean release 0.8.6, no
1491 2013-12-09 18:34:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If by current you mean git head, I don't know
1492 2013-12-09 18:35:16 <kjj> I meant 086.  I wasn't sure if that got done or not
1493 2013-12-09 18:35:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I know that there have been ideas and proposals to have such a warning, but I don't know if any actually became code)
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1497 2013-12-09 18:36:01 <kjj> stonecoldpat: leave a note about fees next to your saved createrawtransaction example
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1499 2013-12-09 18:36:21 <stonecoldpat> kjj: I did just in case - it would be easy to forget to do something like that
1500 2013-12-09 18:36:58 <kjj> even better would be a script that pulls out the transactions, checks their values, and generates the change automatically
1501 2013-12-09 18:37:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|General rule of thumb: if a command parameter has any characters in it like spaces, quotes, etc, wrap it in ''
1502 2013-12-09 18:37:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kjj: I think there might have been something like that
1503 2013-12-09 18:37:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Check the contrib folder of git master
1504 2013-12-09 18:38:14 <kjj> stronger rule of thumb: if a command parameter is at all sensitive to minor changes, wrap in ''
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1506 2013-12-09 18:39:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|kjj: Well, no
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1508 2013-12-09 18:40:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Some parameters need to be numbers, not strings
1509 2013-12-09 18:40:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or, is that just in json?)
1510 2013-12-09 18:41:12 <kjj> yeah, some need to be numbers.  but I personally find those exceptions to be less annoying than exceptions in the other direction
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1519 2013-12-09 18:54:22 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: that's just in json; on the command line there are only strings, the only thing that can differ is how they're parsed
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1526 2013-12-09 18:59:24 <amiller> why does getheaders behave differently than getblocks
1527 2013-12-09 18:59:54 <amiller> if i send an empty getblocks locator, hashstop=0000, i get some blocks back
1528 2013-12-09 19:00:01 <amiller> if i send an identical getheaders, i get nothing
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1535 2013-12-09 19:06:55 <amiller> nvm i'm probably wrong
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1541 2013-12-09 19:13:06 <lachesis> test
1542 2013-12-09 19:13:29 <lachesis> TEST
1543 2013-12-09 19:15:55 <lachesis> sorry guys, i was using /WALLCHAN on another server - did not realize it would send to EVERY channel on EVERY connected server
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1628 2013-12-09 21:01:04 <Cocodude> gmaxwell: So I tried to recompile bitcoind with -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER but whenever I run it with -debug it locks up! strace permanently waits on 'futex(0x20fb3c, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 1, NULL'
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1632 2013-12-09 21:03:17 <v3ry3l33te> anyone has ubuntu ppa repo for 0.8.6? or should i build my own
1633 2013-12-09 21:04:15 <grau> gmaxwell: I prepared a test case with private keys in it to demonstrate my p2sh problem. what would be a private channel to you?
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1647 2013-12-09 21:13:57 <grau> gmaxwell: sent to greg@xiph.org with PGP
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1654 2013-12-09 21:20:06 <gavinandresen> that'll teach me to try prep a release before bedtime… I forgot to code-sign the windows setup.exe.  Fixed, and uploading to sourceforge now
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1737 2013-12-09 22:49:29 <lechuga> im doing fairly frequent sendfroms on the testnet and im noticing now each one takes ~6s to complete
1738 2013-12-09 22:49:45 roconnor has joined
1739 2013-12-09 22:49:50 <lechuga> any1 know why that might be off the top of their head?
1740 2013-12-09 22:50:46 <nsh> rogue aubergines
1741 2013-12-09 22:51:24 <lechuga> bitcoind spikes to 99% cpu too
1742 2013-12-09 22:51:38 <lechuga> on each sendfrom call
1743 2013-12-09 22:52:46 <lechuga> def new and i havent changed the code issuing rpc commands
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1751 2013-12-09 22:56:32 <lechuga> hmm now it went away
1752 2013-12-09 22:58:01 <amiller> hey about this bloom filter
1753 2013-12-09 22:58:04 <amiller> it's designed for SPV
1754 2013-12-09 22:58:08 <amiller> is it implemented in bitcoind today?
1755 2013-12-09 22:58:21 <amiller> that basically for each peer, you keep a small state describing a filter, and only pass relevant inv filters (if it asks for it?)
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1758 2013-12-09 22:59:47 <jaakkos> afaik yes
1759 2013-12-09 23:00:35 Gandalf has joined
1760 2013-12-09 23:00:40 <Gandalf> Hello friends
1761 2013-12-09 23:00:52 <Gandalf> I notied today, after I installed Ubunt 12.04 LTS
1762 2013-12-09 23:00:59 <jaakkos> amiller: seems to be bip37
1763 2013-12-09 23:01:05 <Gandalf> There isn't a Bitcoin app in the Ubuntu Software Center... At all...
1764 2013-12-09 23:01:13 <amiller> i assume the bloom filter only supports standard transactions and addresses that way...
1765 2013-12-09 23:01:16 <Gandalf> Maybe one of you fine gentlemen could change that? Mayhaps?
1766 2013-12-09 23:03:24 <jaakkos> amiller: i think there was a group of things that can be matched for
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1772 2013-12-09 23:07:24 <nsh> amiller, described here i think: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0037.mediawiki
1773 2013-12-09 23:07:42 <amiller> got it, thanks
1774 2013-12-09 23:07:53 <lechuga> hmm and now its doing it again
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1781 2013-12-09 23:13:40 <lechuga> its almost like bitcoind has some kind of exponential backoff throttling sendfrom
1782 2013-12-09 23:14:17 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, IsConfirmed
1783 2013-12-09 23:14:29 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, i assume you're sending to yourself
1784 2013-12-09 23:14:37 <lechuga> sendign from one account to another
1785 2013-12-09 23:14:40 <lechuga> both in same wallet
1786 2013-12-09 23:14:41 Guyver2 has quit (Quit: :))
1787 2013-12-09 23:14:53 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, yeah
1788 2013-12-09 23:14:55 mattco has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1789 2013-12-09 23:15:14 <lechuga> you've seen it?
1790 2013-12-09 23:15:20 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, the time complexity of unconfirmed transactions from yourself to yourself in Isconfirmed is fractal or something
1791 2013-12-09 23:15:26 <phantomcircuit> im not entirely sure but it's very slow
1792 2013-12-09 23:15:42 <lechuga> so what am i supposed to do
1793 2013-12-09 23:15:49 <lechuga> just not send so quickly?
1794 2013-12-09 23:16:27 <gavinandresen> yes, don't spam the network with sends-to-self.
1795 2013-12-09 23:16:40 <jaakkos> Gandalf: you might want to open the discussion on a Ubuntu channel instead )
1796 2013-12-09 23:16:41 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, testnet
1797 2013-12-09 23:17:03 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, but also yeah make use of sendmany
1798 2013-12-09 23:17:19 <lechuga> ahh ok
1799 2013-12-09 23:17:24 <phantomcircuit> and do not rely on the accounts feature in bitcoind for any serious accounting
1800 2013-12-09 23:17:28 <gavinandresen> ah, testnet.  Then just run two -regtest nodes and generate blocks when you run out of unspent txouts
1801 2013-12-09 23:17:38 <gavinandresen> … or test phantomcircuit's patches
1802 2013-12-09 23:17:47 <gavinandresen> … which fix the problem
1803 2013-12-09 23:17:54 <lechuga> oh it is viewed as a bug?
1804 2013-12-09 23:18:00 <phantomcircuit> lechuga, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2952
1805 2013-12-09 23:18:04 <jaakkos> Gandalf: you can use a PPA from http://bitcoin.org/en/download
1806 2013-12-09 23:18:15 <phantomcircuit> (that has a better description of the issue than the preferred pull request)
1807 2013-12-09 23:18:19 <lechuga> lol ok good fix
1808 2013-12-09 23:18:20 <phantomcircuit> also pretty pictures
1809 2013-12-09 23:18:26 <lechuga> :)
1810 2013-12-09 23:18:38 <lechuga> it fits with my observations
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1812 2013-12-09 23:18:52 <lechuga> thx
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1820 2013-12-09 23:23:07 <lechuga> should i still see this with minconf=0?
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1822 2013-12-09 23:26:33 <lechuga> seems like yes
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1824 2013-12-09 23:30:24 <Kozuch> hi guys, what would be the cost of forking the bitcoin client to have following feature: variable block reward. each peer would propose its own reward value and the mined reward would be set as median of values proposed by all peers
1825 2013-12-09 23:31:26 <gmaxwell> There really ought to be an altcoin channel to redirect that kind of stuff into, it doesn't belong here.
1826 2013-12-09 23:32:21 <Kozuch> yes altcoin channel would be great
1827 2013-12-09 23:33:49 Gandalf has left ()
1828 2013-12-09 23:35:35 <gmaxwell> Kozuch: in any case, since there isn't— there is no global view of 'peers' so the rule you suggest couldn't be enforced and is either failure prone or reduces to miners can set whatever they want.
1829 2013-12-09 23:37:51 <nsh> you could average over a proposed reward submitted with transactions
1830 2013-12-09 23:38:09 <nsh> but that encourages gaming
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1832 2013-12-09 23:38:36 <nsh> also enforcement would still be nontrivial and could lead to divergence
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1834 2013-12-09 23:40:01 <Kozuch> I thought about the enforcement like this: if the miner would not follow the median value, others would not add his block to their block chain
1835 2013-12-09 23:41:06 <gmaxwell> Kozuch: that would be very easy to break. I make 100 connections to you, report the minimum ... now you reject all blocks
1836 2013-12-09 23:41:24 <gmaxwell> if not for things like this we could just dispense with proof of work entirely.
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1839 2013-12-09 23:44:06 <Kozuch> well I am asking for a price to have a working feature of variable rewards working safely... I see this would probably need some coding to be done to make this fail safe
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1842 2013-12-09 23:46:38 <Kozuch> but since transactions propagate through whole network I thought maintaining a constant list of proposed rewards from all peers might not be that hard
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1846 2013-12-09 23:48:13 <phantomcircuit> Kozuch, he's telling you that it's not reasonably possible
1847 2013-12-09 23:48:32 kfreds has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1848 2013-12-09 23:48:39 <phantomcircuit> money wont change that short of paying people to actively research the subjuct
1849 2013-12-09 23:48:50 <phantomcircuit> but that is paying for research without guarantees
1850 2013-12-09 23:48:57 <phantomcircuit> (that would likely fail)
1851 2013-12-09 23:48:57 <Kozuch> ok
1852 2013-12-09 23:49:22 <nsh> if you pay me to research blockchain-science, i can firmly guarantee that i will definitely spend your money
1853 2013-12-09 23:49:24 <Luke-Jr> we should have a block chain to debate reward value in the main block chain
1854 2013-12-09 23:50:57 <gmaxwell> yo dawg
1855 2013-12-09 23:51:20 <gmaxwell> I put a consensus in ur consensus.
1856 2013-12-09 23:51:33 * nsh smiles
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