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  74 2013-12-15 01:32:15 <deanclkclk> what's a addNode in bitcoin?
  75 2013-12-15 01:33:00 ahg has joined
  76 2013-12-15 01:33:01 <BlueMatt> -addnode
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  84 2013-12-15 01:35:27 <deanclkclk> what is it saying that's what I meant
  85 2013-12-15 01:35:34 <deanclkclk> in the bitcoin.config
  86 2013-12-15 01:36:20 <BlueMatt> in bitcoin.conf addnode=$NODE makes bitcoind keep a connection open to $NODE
  87 2013-12-15 01:37:18 <deanclkclk> so how that affects peer on the network?
  88 2013-12-15 01:37:33 <deanclkclk> does that mean I refuse connection from other peer nodes and only allow connection to one?
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  92 2013-12-15 01:40:52 <BlueMatt> no
  93 2013-12-15 01:40:58 <deanclkclk> and what's the difference between addNode and connect?
  94 2013-12-15 01:41:35 <BlueMatt> it does nothing but open a connection
  95 2013-12-15 01:41:45 <BlueMatt> connect means no listening and no other connections
  96 2013-12-15 01:42:20 xire has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  97 2013-12-15 01:46:15 <deanclkclk> so what does addNode does?
  98 2013-12-15 01:46:32 <Luke-Jr> he just told oyu
  99 2013-12-15 01:46:41 Coincidental has joined
 100 2013-12-15 01:48:04 <deanclkclk> folks
 101 2013-12-15 01:48:14 <deanclkclk> addNode and connect specify an IP address
 102 2013-12-15 01:48:56 <deanclkclk> well both these keys requires an IP address
 103 2013-12-15 01:49:09 <deanclkclk> so I am thinking they do the same thing
 104 2013-12-15 01:49:29 <gmaxwell> 17:38 < BlueMatt> connect means no listening and no other connections
 105 2013-12-15 01:52:21 <deanclkclk> ohh I get it..so connection for the rpc-json
 106 2013-12-15 01:52:41 <BlueMatt> deanclkclk: #bitcoin
 107 2013-12-15 01:52:42 <deanclkclk> and addNode is just to connect to the network
 108 2013-12-15 01:52:50 <BlueMatt> not even close
 109 2013-12-15 01:52:50 <gmaxwell> no, it has nothing to do with rpc-json.
 110 2013-12-15 01:53:00 <deanclkclk> wtf???!!!
 111 2013-12-15 01:53:06 <deanclkclk> can I get some context plz?
 112 2013-12-15 01:53:16 <BlueMatt> yes, go to #bitcoin
 113 2013-12-15 01:53:19 <deanclkclk> like a use case where I would use one
 114 2013-12-15 01:53:21 <deanclkclk> ok
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 132 2013-12-15 02:21:57 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/FeministSoftwareFoundation/C-plus-Equality
 133 2013-12-15 02:22:18 Guest59416 has joined
 134 2013-12-15 02:24:22 <phantomcircuit> yeah so we should probably move bitcoin.org off github
 135 2013-12-15 02:24:30 JesusFreak has joined
 136 2013-12-15 02:25:00 <andytoshi> aw, "this repo has been disabled"
 137 2013-12-15 02:25:01 s7r has joined
 138 2013-12-15 02:25:09 <andytoshi> "Access to this repository has been disabled by GitHub staff."
 139 2013-12-15 02:25:14 <andytoshi> so maybe you can forgive them ;)
 140 2013-12-15 02:26:16 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yea, github took down a whole pile of mozilla repositories due to an obvious spurrious DMCA complaint, including access to the issues (which weren't replicated, unlike the code) and were super unhelpful.
 141 2013-12-15 02:26:20 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: there's a difference between hosting bitcoin.org and overtly sexist shit from 4chan...
 142 2013-12-15 02:26:44 <gmaxwell> I hadn't thought about the website though, interesting point.
 143 2013-12-15 02:26:54 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: really? well thats shit
 144 2013-12-15 02:27:41 <phantomcircuit> i've been looking at alternatives to github recently for issue tracking that can be locally hosted
 145 2013-12-15 02:28:00 <phantomcircuit> it seems like trac/bugzilla are the only serious options and neither of them is well integrted with git like github is
 146 2013-12-15 02:28:01 <phantomcircuit> :(
 147 2013-12-15 02:28:04 cfhi has joined
 148 2013-12-15 02:28:15 <gmaxwell> its really remarkably hard to find hosting that doesn't do crazy stuff, esp if cheap/free is a requirement.
 149 2013-12-15 02:28:36 <phantomcircuit> cheap/free is not a requirement...
 150 2013-12-15 02:28:47 <DiabloD3> and just think
 151 2013-12-15 02:28:50 <DiabloD3> Im starting a dedi company
 152 2013-12-15 02:28:57 <DiabloD3> that will accept bitcoins
 153 2013-12-15 02:29:44 <midnightmagic> BAH.
 154 2013-12-15 02:29:52 <DiabloD3> midnightmagic: what?
 155 2013-12-15 02:29:56 <midnightmagic> Dangers of proprietary interfaces.
 156 2013-12-15 02:30:13 <midnightmagic> .. off in some distant cloud.
 157 2013-12-15 02:30:45 <DiabloD3> btw, use atlassia's bug tracker that Im forgetting the name of
 158 2013-12-15 02:30:53 <DiabloD3> its closed source but free for foss projects
 159 2013-12-15 02:31:02 <DiabloD3> its the best bug tracker Ive ever used
 160 2013-12-15 02:31:30 <BlueMatt> jira
 161 2013-12-15 02:31:49 <DiabloD3> yeah jira
 162 2013-12-15 02:32:24 <Luke-Jr> closed source is by definition not free
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 173 2013-12-15 02:51:02 <nettest> is there any way to do something  like SIGHASH_NONE for inputs?  Like a SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY that's REALLY anyonecanpay: it completely empties the txCopy input list before hashing
 174 2013-12-15 02:51:21 <nettest> (i mean some combination of TX that effectively simulates that)
 175 2013-12-15 02:51:56 <nettest> Such a primitive would make multi-TX protocols secure from inputscript malleability problems
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 180 2013-12-15 03:01:29 <andytoshi> nettest: there is no such thing in bitcoin today
 181 2013-12-15 03:02:13 <andytoshi> if you think about it concretely it is pretty hard to come up with a good proposal for such a thing
 182 2013-12-15 03:02:25 <andytoshi> i can see why satoshi chose the four SIGHASH types that he did..
 183 2013-12-15 03:03:30 <andytoshi> like, your proposal lets people tack on arbitrary inputs, then those inputs can be removed but not others, and the entire time the hash is not changing..
 184 2013-12-15 03:03:41 <andytoshi> what if you have two of these 'anyonecanpay' inputs
 185 2013-12-15 03:04:05 <andytoshi> you could forbid that, but then you're forcing users to have large txouts available..
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 224 2013-12-15 04:12:59 <deanclkclk> folks run bitcoind...my command line freezes
 225 2013-12-15 04:13:01 <deanclkclk> is this normal?
 226 2013-12-15 04:13:12 <deanclkclk> am I suppose to get atleast an output?
 227 2013-12-15 04:13:22 <deanclkclk> how can I test that the server is running?
 228 2013-12-15 04:14:14 mtbomb has joined
 229 2013-12-15 04:15:23 <Emcy> deanclkclk you dont get an output unless you run with -printtoconsole
 230 2013-12-15 04:15:32 <Emcy> and then you lose the logfile
 231 2013-12-15 04:16:40 Apocalyptic is now known as ApocaIyptic
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 233 2013-12-15 04:16:56 ApocaIyptic is now known as Apocalyptic
 234 2013-12-15 04:18:31 <andytoshi> deanclkclk: tailf ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
 235 2013-12-15 04:18:33 <andytoshi> is it moving?
 236 2013-12-15 04:20:05 <deanclkclk> can I atleast ping the server
 237 2013-12-15 04:20:23 <deanclkclk> or communicate with it through my rest client?
 238 2013-12-15 04:20:40 iwilcox is now known as iwilcox`
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 240 2013-12-15 04:20:55 <BlueMatt> deanclkclk: again, please ask new-user questions on #bitcoin
 241 2013-12-15 04:20:57 iwilcox` is now known as iwiIcox`
 242 2013-12-15 04:20:59 <BlueMatt> there are way more people there than here
 243 2013-12-15 04:21:05 iwiIcox` is now known as iwiIcox_
 244 2013-12-15 04:21:09 <deanclkclk> ok sorry
 245 2013-12-15 04:21:19 iwiIcox_ is now known as iwilcox
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 249 2013-12-15 04:32:34 <andytoshi> anyone here down to try a coinjoin on testnet?
 250 2013-12-15 04:32:52 <andytoshi> thanks a ton to gmaxwell for his suggestions for my coinjoiner
 251 2013-12-15 04:33:13 <andytoshi> fees and donations now work using magic addresses, and the currently most popular output is displayed
 252 2013-12-15 04:35:17 c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zzz
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 261 2013-12-15 04:57:48 <jsidhu> I created my daemon using i0coin which was based off of 0.8.5 with the BIP
 262 2013-12-15 04:57:57 <jsidhu> now Im getting only orphan blocks from the daemon
 263 2013-12-15 04:58:09 <jsidhu> what does that mean? I made miner changes to createblock
 264 2013-12-15 04:58:20 <jsidhu> but the original logic is all there
 265 2013-12-15 04:58:44 <Luke-Jr> jsidhu: this is #BITCOIN-dev, not #SCAMcoin-dev
 266 2013-12-15 04:58:57 <jsidhu> do I have to reposition in the chain somehow because my daemon changed? Luke-Jr nice assumption
 267 2013-12-15 04:59:02 <jsidhu> im updating devcoin
 268 2013-12-15 04:59:12 <Luke-Jr> jsidhu: same thing
 269 2013-12-15 04:59:14 <jsidhu> u know i think ur getting free coins for doing nothing  for us :)
 270 2013-12-15 04:59:31 <jsidhu> devcoin is a scam?
 271 2013-12-15 04:59:35 <jsidhu> ethical scam? oxymoron
 272 2013-12-15 04:59:38 <Luke-Jr> off-topic here
 273 2013-12-15 04:59:50 <jsidhu> so why am I only getting orphan blocks
 274 2013-12-15 05:00:02 <Luke-Jr> with bitcoin?
 275 2013-12-15 05:00:05 <jsidhu> what "could" be wrong... missing somethign simple?
 276 2013-12-15 05:00:33 selador has joined
 277 2013-12-15 05:00:47 <Apocalyptic> how is the connection added with addnoe=ip enforced ?
 278 2013-12-15 05:00:58 <kjj> enforced?
 279 2013-12-15 05:01:12 <jsidhu> no I forward ported devcoin to 0.8.5 starting with i0coin whcih was already ported... i made the devcoin changes to essentially 'recreate' devcoin from i0coin.. logic looks good I had to port the old code to the new code structure for 0.8.5.. but very minor changes like tweak the block size et
 280 2013-12-15 05:01:13 <Apocalyptic> I mean if it drops somehow and I already have the maxconnection limit reached, will it reconnect ?
 281 2013-12-15 05:01:50 <jsidhu> now I have a new daemon (devcoin based on 0.8.5) and i run it on the network and only gets me orphan blocks
 282 2013-12-15 05:02:02 <Apocalyptic> kjj, i want to make sure i'm connected to a specific node whatever happens
 283 2013-12-15 05:02:09 <Apocalyptic> at anytime
 284 2013-12-15 05:02:20 <kjj> hang on a sec, I'll see if I can find it in the source
 285 2013-12-15 05:02:25 <BlueMatt> jsidhu: this channel is not for discussing altcoins, thanks
 286 2013-12-15 05:02:36 <jsidhu> BlueMatt: ok np
 287 2013-12-15 05:02:49 <jsidhu> i thought maybe it was something simple
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 289 2013-12-15 05:03:13 <kjj> Apocalyptic: RPC addnode, or config file addnode?
 290 2013-12-15 05:03:21 <Apocalyptic> config file
 291 2013-12-15 05:03:53 <kjj> bitcoind --help says "add a node to connect to and attempt to keep the connection open"
 292 2013-12-15 05:03:54 w^hive has joined
 293 2013-12-15 05:04:13 <w^hive> Does bitcoin-qt automatically re-broadcast transactions that received no confirmations, after a period of time?
 294 2013-12-15 05:04:27 <kjj> w^hive: if it is your transaction, yes
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 296 2013-12-15 05:05:05 <w^hive> kjj: Do you know what the interval is, off-hand?
 297 2013-12-15 05:05:14 mappppum has joined
 298 2013-12-15 05:05:15 <kjj> no, sorry
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 300 2013-12-15 05:05:39 <Apocalyptic> <kjj> bitcoind --help says "add a node to connect to and attempt to keep the connection open" // yeah I read that
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 302 2013-12-15 05:06:13 <andytoshi> w^hive: wallet.cpp:926
 303 2013-12-15 05:06:15 <andytoshi>     nNextResend = GetTime() + GetRand(30 * 60);
 304 2013-12-15 05:06:24 <kjj> heh, andy was faster
 305 2013-12-15 05:06:29 <kjj> I was looking at the same function
 306 2013-12-15 05:06:30 <w^hive> :)
 307 2013-12-15 05:06:34 <w^hive> So it's a RANDOM interval?
 308 2013-12-15 05:06:37 <andytoshi> :) i grepped for 'broadcast'
 309 2013-12-15 05:06:52 <andytoshi> apparently so
 310 2013-12-15 05:07:02 <w^hive> Interesting.
 311 2013-12-15 05:07:16 <kjj> that's a privacy feature
 312 2013-12-15 05:07:25 <w^hive> Yeah that makes sense.
 313 2013-12-15 05:07:25 <kjj> read the comments
 314 2013-12-15 05:08:07 jsidhu has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 315 2013-12-15 05:08:16 <kjj> Apocalyptic: it adds it to a list of nodes to keep connected.  the rpc can add to and remove from that list, or trigger a connection to a specific node without adding to the list
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 319 2013-12-15 05:08:53 <Apocalyptic> kjj, ok good to know
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 322 2013-12-15 05:10:16 <w^hive> So if I want to rebroadcast a transaction manually, how do I do it from the RPC console?
 323 2013-12-15 05:10:29 <Apocalyptic> w^hive, you likely don't
 324 2013-12-15 05:10:37 <kjj> getrawtransaction, sendrawtransaction
 325 2013-12-15 05:10:44 <Apocalyptic> will it work ?
 326 2013-12-15 05:10:58 <Apocalyptic> i've been told you can't rebroadcast with sendrawtx
 327 2013-12-15 05:11:41 <Apocalyptic> kjj, thanks btw
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 330 2013-12-15 05:12:19 <Apocalyptic> I assume because the tx is already in the node's mempool, so it will be rejected when trying to sendrawtransaction
 331 2013-12-15 05:12:43 <kjj> uh, rpcrawtransaction.cpp, line 573 in function sendrawtransaction calls RelayTransaction and isn't inside the conditional for "fHave"
 332 2013-12-15 05:13:03 SwampTony has joined
 333 2013-12-15 05:13:28 <kjj> the comment says "Not in block, but already in the memory pool; will drop through to re-relay it."
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 336 2013-12-15 05:20:49 <Apocalyptic> hum, so AcceptToMemoryPool() will return true even if the tx is already in it ?
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 338 2013-12-15 05:22:20 <kjj> doesn't look like it
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 340 2013-12-15 05:23:00 <kjj> main.cpp, line 685.  AcceptToMemoryPool is pretty much just a passthrough to CTxMemPool::accept() which returns false if already in the pool
 341 2013-12-15 05:23:27 <kjj> (line 824 also)
 342 2013-12-15 05:25:24 <Apocalyptic> so according to rpcrawtransaction.cpp, line 788 it indeeds rejects it, unless i'm missing something
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 344 2013-12-15 05:26:07 <Apocalyptic> nevermind...
 345 2013-12-15 05:26:10 <kjj> hmm.  my rpcrawtransaction.cpp file doesn't have that many lines.  I'm on 0.8.6
 346 2013-12-15 05:26:11 <Apocalyptic> too tired today
 347 2013-12-15 05:27:04 <Apocalyptic> i'm on master
 348 2013-12-15 05:27:47 <Apocalyptic> <kjj> uh, rpcrawtransaction.cpp, line 573 in function sendrawtransaction calls RelayTransaction and isn't inside the conditional for "fHave" // irrelevant since a JSONRPCError is thrown before
 349 2013-12-15 05:28:24 <kjj> where was the error thrown?
 350 2013-12-15 05:28:34 <Apocalyptic> the line i mentionned
 351 2013-12-15 05:28:57 <kjj> I see three JSONRPCError calls.  none seem to apply
 352 2013-12-15 05:29:14 <Apocalyptic> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpcrawtransaction.cpp#L788
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 354 2013-12-15 05:33:15 <kjj> if it is already in the mempool, the fHave check above skips that call
 355 2013-12-15 05:34:51 <Apocalyptic> indeed
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 404 2013-12-15 07:10:00 <amidvidy> is the bitcoin wiki down?
 405 2013-12-15 07:10:18 <robonerd> is this the right place to talk about apps that implement the mt gox trading api, and things like it?
 406 2013-12-15 07:10:56 <DiabloD3> no
 407 2013-12-15 07:10:59 <DiabloD3> ask in #mtgox
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 420 2013-12-15 07:28:16 <robonerd> we're attempting to kick off a new bitcoin channel for app development for bitcoin / related APIs at #bitcoin-appdev  - it could be good to get the community of btc app developers together!
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 436 2013-12-15 07:55:02 * Ryan52 has been having issues resolving bitcoin.it, intermittantly, today.
 437 2013-12-15 07:55:14 <Apocalyptic> it's expiring
 438 2013-12-15 07:56:30 capa66 has joined
 439 2013-12-15 07:56:40 <Ryan52> that's unfortunate.
 440 2013-12-15 07:57:25 <dkog> same here
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 444 2013-12-15 08:02:36 <ne0futur> Ryan52: its worst, the whois says tredemption period
 445 2013-12-15 08:02:59 Applicat_ has joined
 446 2013-12-15 08:03:02 <ne0futur> Domain:             bitcoin.it
 447 2013-12-15 08:03:02 <ne0futur> Status:             pendingDelete / redemptionPeriod
 448 2013-12-15 08:03:02 <ne0futur> Created:            2010-12-01 10:15:11
 449 2013-12-15 08:03:02 <ne0futur> Last Update:        2013-12-15 02:49:35
 450 2013-12-15 08:03:02 <ne0futur> Expire Date:        2013-12-01
 451 2013-12-15 08:03:22 <ne0futur> I pinged MT about that
 452 2013-12-15 08:03:33 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 453 2013-12-15 08:03:52 <Ryan52> Anybody know what the IP of en.bitcoin.it was?
 454 2013-12-15 08:04:10 kinglet_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 455 2013-12-15 08:04:22 * Ryan52 should have snagged it in time to add to /etc/hosts, or even setup a proxy if he were so inclined.
 456 2013-12-15 08:04:28 <Ryan52> If anybody can still resolve it, please let me know :)
 457 2013-12-15 08:04:34 <ne0futur> dunno the ip but the cloudflare dns should have it
 458 2013-12-15 08:04:42 <ne0futur> ameservers josh.ns.cloudflare.com lara.ns.cloudflare.com
 459 2013-12-15 08:05:12 <Ryan52> ne0futur: ahah, thank you!
 460 2013-12-15 08:05:21 <ne0futur> querying them directly you should be able to get the ip
 461 2013-12-15 08:05:52 kinglet_ has joined
 462 2013-12-15 08:07:44 <Ryan52> ne0futur: yep, thanks
 463 2013-12-15 08:08:51 <ne0futur> if you get it give to me too, gotta put that in etc/hosts ;)
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 472 2013-12-15 08:18:07 <Ryan52> ne0futur: 198.41.191.31 en.bitcoin.it
 473 2013-12-15 08:18:22 <ne0futur> thanks ;)
 474 2013-12-15 08:18:23 skinnkavaj has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 475 2013-12-15 08:18:50 <Ryan52> For my own lazyness, since I use this from many machines, I setup a reverse proxy at http://en-bitcoin.ryan52.info/ but didn't bother to have it rewrite the HTML links so it looks really bad :P
 476 2013-12-15 08:18:56 capa66 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 477 2013-12-15 08:19:18 <Ryan52> The important ones still work, just not the theme :P
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 480 2013-12-15 08:20:21 * Ryan52 also references the wiki in some of his code that other people working on his project will see, and doesn't want to force them to fix their /etc/hosts to follow those, which was mostly his motivation.
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 485 2013-12-15 08:25:29 <dkog> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=371727.0 - re DNS
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 536 2013-12-15 09:22:37 <ne0futur> Ryan52: wiki fixed Status:             ok / autoRenewPeriod
 537 2013-12-15 09:22:43 <ne0futur> even if it could take 24 hours for propagation for most users
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 554 2013-12-15 09:37:15 <Emcy> the way people use vanity addresses now
 555 2013-12-15 09:37:43 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 556 2013-12-15 09:38:07 <Emcy> would it be possible to post a HD seed somewhere, and peoples clients generate a fresh payee address from that at random
 557 2013-12-15 09:38:12 <Emcy> to cut down on reuse
 558 2013-12-15 09:38:27 eristisk has joined
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 560 2013-12-15 09:41:07 <sipa> Emcy: what's the point, if you publish the entire chain?
 561 2013-12-15 09:41:29 <sipa> you don't get any privacy advantages anymore
 562 2013-12-15 09:41:34 <sipa> at least in theory
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 578 2013-12-15 09:58:00 <Emcy> sipa of course youre right
 579 2013-12-15 09:59:17 <sipa> there are also more practical concerns
 580 2013-12-15 09:59:27 <Emcy> hang on, whats the address space of a HD seed? not the full 160 bits?
 581 2013-12-15 09:59:44 <sipa> you're confusing things
 582 2013-12-15 10:00:01 <Emcy> i dont understand how hd seeds work at all
 583 2013-12-15 10:00:03 <sipa> the seed defines the entire key tree and is between 128 and 512 bits long
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 585 2013-12-15 10:00:17 <sipa> the seed is converted into a master key
 586 2013-12-15 10:00:34 <sipa> which is the root of the key tree
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 588 2013-12-15 10:00:57 <Emcy> its a tree? but you can generate unlimited addresses from it still? like a fractal?
 589 2013-12-15 10:01:33 <sipa> if you have an extended key P, you can compute its children
 590 2013-12-15 10:01:48 <sipa> and there can be 2^31 children for every parent
 591 2013-12-15 10:02:01 <sipa> each child can have new children
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 596 2013-12-15 10:04:03 <Emcy> if someone has your seed, and sends coins to a random address generated from it, how would you generate the corresponding privkey needed to receive that?
 597 2013-12-15 10:04:23 <Emcy> i read about giving say an employer a hd seed to preserve your privacy
 598 2013-12-15 10:04:24 <sipa> they'd need to tell you which one they used
 599 2013-12-15 10:04:49 <sipa> you can have an agreement to just use consecutive ones
 600 2013-12-15 10:04:52 <Emcy> so key generation from a seed isnt serial?
 601 2013-12-15 10:05:05 <sipa> you're confusing steps
 602 2013-12-15 10:05:12 <sipa> with the seed, you have the entire tree
 603 2013-12-15 10:05:18 <sipa> private and public
 604 2013-12-15 10:05:27 <Emcy> yes once you compute all of it
 605 2013-12-15 10:05:31 <sipa> you most definitely will not want to give your seed to anyone
 606 2013-12-15 10:05:45 <sipa> it's the most secret thing you have
 607 2013-12-15 10:05:51 <Emcy> i meant a single purpose seed, not you main one
 608 2013-12-15 10:06:05 <sipa> please re-read what i said, or read bip32
 609 2013-12-15 10:06:11 <Emcy> well not really a seed, not for your privkeys
 610 2013-12-15 10:06:47 <ne0futur> http://www.michaelnielsen.org/ddi/how-the-bitcoin-protocol-actually-works/
 611 2013-12-15 10:06:54 <sipa> if i just give you a parent key, you can use its child keys to send me payments
 612 2013-12-15 10:07:07 <sipa> that is not a seed, it is really a key
 613 2013-12-15 10:07:24 <ne0futur> great article for anyone wanting to dive in the bitcoin protocol
 614 2013-12-15 10:07:29 <Emcy> ok ill stop saying seed in this context
 615 2013-12-15 10:07:40 <sipa> and if i only give you the public portuon of that parent key, you can compute only its cbild public keys
 616 2013-12-15 10:08:10 <sipa> and addresses are just hashes of public keys, they are not relevant here
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 619 2013-12-15 10:08:44 <Emcy> so you can do that, and agree to receive monies on consecutive addresses
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 621 2013-12-15 10:09:03 <sipa> yes
 622 2013-12-15 10:09:13 <sipa> well, keys - not necessarily addresses even
 623 2013-12-15 10:09:20 <Emcy> yes keys
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 625 2013-12-15 10:09:51 <sipa> but that only works with a single sender
 626 2013-12-15 10:10:08 <Emcy> so if someone sent monies to a key which took them statistically a month to generate, it should take you statistically a month to also generate the privkey required to receive
 627 2013-12-15 10:10:10 <sipa> as he'll need to keep track of which index child he is at
 628 2013-12-15 10:10:14 <Emcy> all things being equal
 629 2013-12-15 10:10:36 <sipa> yes, but how/why/what are you talking about?
 630 2013-12-15 10:11:22 <sipa> ah
 631 2013-12-15 10:11:38 <Emcy> i just come up with dumb scenarios on a subject to see if theyre techincally correct but stupid
 632 2013-12-15 10:11:46 <sipa> you can generate child number 16474916473 instantly
 633 2013-12-15 10:11:57 <Emcy> it helps me learn
 634 2013-12-15 10:12:14 <sipa> you don't need to compute all 16474916472 previous children
 635 2013-12-15 10:12:30 <Emcy> oh
 636 2013-12-15 10:12:50 <sipa> and there are only 2 billion subkeys for every parent
 637 2013-12-15 10:13:03 <sipa> and maximum 256 levels of recursion
 638 2013-12-15 10:13:32 <Emcy> thats quite a lot
 639 2013-12-15 10:14:02 <sipa> yes, but it means that anything can really be generated in milliseconds or so
 640 2013-12-15 10:14:17 <sipa> if you know what
 641 2013-12-15 10:14:33 <Emcy> right ok
 642 2013-12-15 10:14:35 <sipa> so saying that deriving a subkey takes a month doesn't make sense
 643 2013-12-15 10:15:06 <Emcy> if you know youve been sent B1000 to a child but they wont tell you which one, youre in trouble
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 645 2013-12-15 10:15:19 <sipa> no, then they are stupid
 646 2013-12-15 10:15:32 <Apocalyptic> ^^
 647 2013-12-15 10:15:37 <sipa> and you'll tell them to send it again to a place where you tell them to
 648 2013-12-15 10:15:51 <Emcy> yes stupid scenario
 649 2013-12-15 10:16:01 <sipa> and if they complain that they already lost money by sending it pnce, that is their problem
 650 2013-12-15 10:16:18 <sipa> in general, you only send to a key where the receiver tells you to
 651 2013-12-15 10:16:36 <Emcy> so given these properties theres no way to have a public static parent key and also preserve your privacy
 652 2013-12-15 10:16:50 <sipa> and you can have a deal where you agree to use subsequent subkeys of a particular parent
 653 2013-12-15 10:17:30 <sipa> Emcy: the trivial solution is to not have any public address at al
 654 2013-12-15 10:17:38 <sipa> and give every sender a new address
 655 2013-12-15 10:17:53 <sipa> how you generate those addresses is your business
 656 2013-12-15 10:17:58 <Emcy> that requires manual intervention
 657 2013-12-15 10:18:12 <sipa> it just requires a payment protocol
 658 2013-12-15 10:18:16 <Emcy> actually it requires you to have some contact with your payer at all
 659 2013-12-15 10:18:32 <sipa> yes
 660 2013-12-15 10:18:41 <sipa> why is that a problem?
 661 2013-12-15 10:18:44 <Emcy> whereas who knows where vanity addresses end up and who pays them
 662 2013-12-15 10:19:01 mattco has joined
 663 2013-12-15 10:19:07 <Emcy> just thinking in context of this plan to add bitcoin URIs into the .torrent spec
 664 2013-12-15 10:19:24 <Emcy> and how that will be even more address reuse if it takes off
 665 2013-12-15 10:19:29 <Emcy> potentially massive amounts
 666 2013-12-15 10:19:49 <sipa> imho, you should always have contact with the recwiver before sending something
 667 2013-12-15 10:19:56 <Emcy> the whole thing strikes me as a bit hare brained atm
 668 2013-12-15 10:20:06 <sipa> to negotiate the key to send to
 669 2013-12-15 10:20:11 <Emcy> especially the plan to put an actuall wallet into a torrent client
 670 2013-12-15 10:20:18 <sipa> heh
 671 2013-12-15 10:20:24 <Emcy> i dont think they have a clue what theyre getting into
 672 2013-12-15 10:20:32 <sipa> who?
 673 2013-12-15 10:20:41 <Emcy> frostwire ppl
 674 2013-12-15 10:20:49 <sipa> never heard of that
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 678 2013-12-15 10:21:08 <sipa> in any case, using static addresses is a bad idea imho
 679 2013-12-15 10:21:15 <Emcy> https://groups.google.com/a/bittorrent.com/forum/#!topic/bt-developers/f8HL_Nu9P7g
 680 2013-12-15 10:21:36 <sipa> i don't think bitcoin in the future will have static addresses
 681 2013-12-15 10:22:04 <Emcy> that will be a shame in a lot of ways
 682 2013-12-15 10:22:29 <sipa> ?
 683 2013-12-15 10:22:43 <Emcy> you couldnt pay someone who doesnt have the ability to personally interact with you right now
 684 2013-12-15 10:22:44 Coincidental has joined
 685 2013-12-15 10:22:55 <sipa> i can send you an email
 686 2013-12-15 10:23:01 <Emcy> you + everyone else who might want to, which might take significant resources
 687 2013-12-15 10:23:04 <sipa> without you being online
 688 2013-12-15 10:23:07 <Emcy> like wl or snowden
 689 2013-12-15 10:23:39 <sipa> all you need is some server that creates address for people to send you money
 690 2013-12-15 10:24:08 <sipa> and with public derivation, that server doesn't gave to know your private key even
 691 2013-12-15 10:24:11 <Emcy> like i said when youre in a spot of bother that might be harder to do than it seems
 692 2013-12-15 10:24:28 <sipa> meh
 693 2013-12-15 10:24:32 <sipa> i doubt it
 694 2013-12-15 10:24:53 <Emcy> not meh. Bitcoin should be used for disruptive things too
 695 2013-12-15 10:25:00 <sipa> yes
 696 2013-12-15 10:25:14 <Emcy> i say too as if its original purpose was buying shit off amazon......
 697 2013-12-15 10:25:15 <sipa> i just don't see the problem
 698 2013-12-15 10:25:38 <sipa> address reuse is a huge problem for privacy of the system
 699 2013-12-15 10:25:47 <Emcy> yes
 700 2013-12-15 10:25:51 <sipa> the only real solution is not reusing addresses at all
 701 2013-12-15 10:25:54 <sipa> and it is trivia
 702 2013-12-15 10:25:56 <sipa> l
 703 2013-12-15 10:26:08 <sipa> as long as you have a negotiation for every transaction
 704 2013-12-15 10:26:11 <Emcy> which is why i was asking what i asked
 705 2013-12-15 10:26:23 <Emcy> if it could be done w/o negotiation
 706 2013-12-15 10:26:28 <tholenst> I find it nice that i can publish a bitcoin address together with my, say, mp3, and wait for donations
 707 2013-12-15 10:26:49 <tholenst> In that case I might not care about privacy
 708 2013-12-15 10:27:02 <sipa> i'm not talking at alk about your privacy
 709 2013-12-15 10:27:09 <Emcy> yeah, imagine if you could just paypal an email addr, you had to email it and ask first
 710 2013-12-15 10:27:17 <Emcy> couldnt
 711 2013-12-15 10:27:19 <sipa> i'm talking about the privacy qualities of the sysyem as a whole
 712 2013-12-15 10:27:40 <tholenst> yes, you have a point... but I still suspect this won't go away
 713 2013-12-15 10:27:43 <Emcy> i agree that reuse is the greater evil
 714 2013-12-15 10:27:44 <sipa> Emcy: that is what you'll get: an email address for money
 715 2013-12-15 10:27:52 <sipa> actually, a url
 716 2013-12-15 10:28:13 <sipa> you enter the url in your bitcoin client, and send money to it
 717 2013-12-15 10:28:28 <Emcy> what about the guy with the QR code on tv
 718 2013-12-15 10:28:43 <Emcy> everyone knows he got $30000 for that or some crazy shit
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 720 2013-12-15 10:28:52 <Emcy> how could you do that but maintain privacy
 721 2013-12-15 10:28:54 <sipa> it contacts the url, fetches a payment request there, fullfills it, and sends the fullfilled payment back
 722 2013-12-15 10:29:03 <sipa> the QR code would contain the payment url
 723 2013-12-15 10:29:11 <sipa> instead of the address
 724 2013-12-15 10:29:36 <Emcy> yes you could do that, but it rises the bar
 725 2013-12-15 10:29:44 <sipa> how so?
 726 2013-12-15 10:29:56 <Emcy> if you want people to just not reuse addresses you need to keep the bar where it is too
 727 2013-12-15 10:30:12 <sipa> it means you don't even need a bitcoin node anymore send to coims
 728 2013-12-15 10:30:13 <Emcy> because then you need giant QR code sign + server
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 731 2013-12-15 10:30:37 <Emcy> and if your server crashes for some reason youre fucked
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 733 2013-12-15 10:30:45 <Emcy> not exactly decentralised
 734 2013-12-15 10:30:50 <sipa> i expect there will be tons of third parties doing the server part for you
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 736 2013-12-15 10:31:13 <Emcy> im trying to have it all ways m8
 737 2013-12-15 10:31:20 <sipa> and of course, static addresses won't go away
 738 2013-12-15 10:31:30 <sipa> unfortunately :)
 739 2013-12-15 10:31:41 <Emcy> these days every time i hear "server" i wince a tiny bit. I cant help it. Things are so different now.
 740 2013-12-15 10:32:31 <Emcy> reuse could be disallowed
 741 2013-12-15 10:32:42 <Emcy> if people agreed to it in bulk
 742 2013-12-15 10:32:45 <sipa> reuse isn't the core of the problem
 743 2013-12-15 10:32:56 <Emcy> its already being deprioritised
 744 2013-12-15 10:33:09 <sipa> linkability of keys is the problem
 745 2013-12-15 10:33:24 <Emcy> semantics?
 746 2013-12-15 10:33:25 <sipa> publishing a key chain instead of a single key indeed avoids reuse
 747 2013-12-15 10:33:34 <sipa> but it doesn't help against linkability
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 749 2013-12-15 10:33:49 <sipa> as niw everyone knows the entire chaim
 750 2013-12-15 10:33:58 dstien has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 752 2013-12-15 10:33:59 <sipa> as now everyone knows the entire chain
 753 2013-12-15 10:34:39 <sipa> so you just moved the problem a bit
 754 2013-12-15 10:34:42 <Emcy> yes in know that now. I just wondered is the were some crypto space magic that might enable such a thing.
 755 2013-12-15 10:35:00 <tholenst> it's so annoying, i want to get lcov running, but gcc has a bug and produces invalid files when you run it with coverage, which makes lcov chocke :(
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 759 2013-12-15 10:35:17 <tholenst> now i'm compiling gcc with a patch to fix that
 760 2013-12-15 10:35:28 dstien has joined
 761 2013-12-15 10:35:28 <sipa> what os?
 762 2013-12-15 10:35:31 <tholenst> linux
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 764 2013-12-15 10:35:40 <sipa> i haven't had problems with lcov
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 766 2013-12-15 10:36:00 <tholenst> you probably always delete the .gcno files before compiling
 767 2013-12-15 10:36:29 <tholenst> gcc doesn't properly truncate them if they existed before
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 771 2013-12-15 10:36:33 <tholenst> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=58602
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 773 2013-12-15 10:36:44 <sipa> ok
 774 2013-12-15 10:37:09 <tholenst> it's amazing -- the bug existed for nine years :)
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 776 2013-12-15 10:37:46 <tholenst> also didn't you have any trouble with leveldb? their Makefile makes my gcc create a file called "-.gcno" which then makes lcov choke as well
 777 2013-12-15 10:38:17 <sipa> it's been a while
 778 2013-12-15 10:38:24 <tholenst> ah ok
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 780 2013-12-15 10:40:22 <tholenst> sorry i didn't want to kill your payment protocol discussion
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 782 2013-12-15 10:42:23 <sipa> haha
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 833 2013-12-15 11:36:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|6:28:53 <andytoshi> anyone here down to try a coinjoin on testnet?
 834 2013-12-15 11:36:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I tried it out last night
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 837 2013-12-15 11:39:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The timer went a couple minutes into the negative before it switched to signing mode. Also, the fee and donation addresses were mainnet addresses, so they didn't work -- and trying to submit a transaction from the "thanks for submitting" page (the one with the session id) and having the transaction rejected kicked you back to the main page.
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 840 2013-12-15 11:40:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|robonerd: FYI,
 841 2013-12-15 11:41:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|robonerd: FYI, according to freenode policy, #bitcoin-* channels are supposed to be reserved for the registered group "bitcoin"
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 999 2013-12-15 13:09:22 <deanclkclk> question...can I test my bitcoind server using REST client?
1000 2013-12-15 13:09:28 <deanclkclk> example calling an endpoint on the server or would I have to create an app to do it?
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1009 2013-12-15 13:12:15 <sipa> deanclkclk: bitcoin doesn't have a REST interface
1010 2013-12-15 13:12:32 <sipa> but you can use the command-line tool (bitcoind <command> to send a command to a running server)
1011 2013-12-15 13:12:35 <deanclkclk> sipa: I am talking json-rpc
1012 2013-12-15 13:12:51 <sipa> well if you have a json-rpc client, yes
1013 2013-12-15 13:13:09 <sipa> you can use bitcoind for that, or curl, or any library that implements it
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1020 2013-12-15 13:15:49 <deanclkclk> so sipa seeing that I have my command line running bitcoind and it's frozen
1021 2013-12-15 13:16:09 <deanclkclk> I need to open another command line and run the bitcoin commands?
1022 2013-12-15 13:16:32 agnostic_ has joined
1023 2013-12-15 13:16:36 <sipa> one is the bitcoind _server_
1024 2013-12-15 13:16:40 <sipa> if you just start it as bitcoind
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1026 2013-12-15 13:16:50 <sipa> you can run it with -daemon to go into background mode
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1028 2013-12-15 13:17:07 <sipa> however, if you run bitcoind <command>, it sends a command to an existing server instead of starting a new one
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1030 2013-12-15 13:17:25 <deanclkclk> hmm ok
1031 2013-12-15 13:17:41 <sipa> so yes: on a new command line
1032 2013-12-15 13:18:00 <deanclkclk> so when I start the server..."bitcoin" register itself in windows PATH..so it's recognize as a valid command?
1033 2013-12-15 13:18:11 agnostic_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1034 2013-12-15 13:18:12 <sipa> not at all
1035 2013-12-15 13:18:17 <Apocalyptic> huh
1036 2013-12-15 13:18:23 <deanclkclk> sorry
1037 2013-12-15 13:18:27 <deanclkclk> I meant bitcoind
1038 2013-12-15 13:18:30 <sipa> windows or PATH or the command line have nothing to do with it
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1041 2013-12-15 13:18:49 <sipa> bitcoind can just either run as a P2P node + RPC server, or as an RPC client to send stuff to the formoer
1042 2013-12-15 13:19:05 <deanclkclk> I agree but, if I open a second  command line window and run "bitcoind"..then I would think it wouldn't recognize it as a valid windows command
1043 2013-12-15 13:19:26 <sipa> how did it work for starting the bitcoind server?
1044 2013-12-15 13:19:47 <deanclkclk> so I'm running bitcoind as a server....with a valid rpcuser and rpcpassword
1045 2013-12-15 13:19:47 <deanclkclk> that's it
1046 2013-12-15 13:19:53 <sipa> how did you start it?
1047 2013-12-15 13:19:55 <edcba> command line interpreter use all directories found in path to run your command
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1049 2013-12-15 13:20:13 <edcba> and also the current directory
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1051 2013-12-15 13:20:34 <deanclkclk> bitcoind --datadir="mydir" --config="data.config"
1052 2013-12-15 13:20:34 <deanclkclk> that's it sipa
1053 2013-12-15 13:20:39 <edcba> so if bitcoind runs it means either you are in bitcoin binary directory or it is in the path
1054 2013-12-15 13:20:51 <sipa> deanclkclk: ok, for sending a command you'd run it exactly the same way
1055 2013-12-15 13:21:06 <sipa> bitcoind --datadir="mydir" --config="data.config" <command>
1056 2013-12-15 13:21:13 <sipa> where <command> is getinfo for example
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1058 2013-12-15 13:22:10 <kjj> you can abbreviate that into just --conf=/full/path/to/config/file
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1064 2013-12-15 13:23:24 <deanclkclk> but, the command line that I use to run the bitcoind server is frozen
1065 2013-12-15 13:23:24 <deanclkclk> so each time I need to run a command...I need to start the server sipa ?
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1068 2013-12-15 13:24:33 <sipa> aaargh
1069 2013-12-15 13:24:40 <sipa> only if you don't pass a command, it runs as a server
1070 2013-12-15 13:24:45 <sipa> and it is not frozen
1071 2013-12-15 13:25:02 <sipa> it just doesn't produce any output, because it's not intended to be looked at
1072 2013-12-15 13:25:32 <sipa> it just happens to be the same program that can function both as a server or as a client, depending on how you invoke it
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1074 2013-12-15 13:25:39 <sipa> can you please just try what we're telling you?
1075 2013-12-15 13:25:59 <deanclkclk> yeah that's what I'm saying sipa..so more than likely..I'll have to create an app to consume the json-rpc
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1077 2013-12-15 13:26:08 <deanclkclk> yeah I'm doing that
1078 2013-12-15 13:26:11 <sipa> what do you want to do?
1079 2013-12-15 13:26:26 <sipa> "consume the json-rpc" is not a purpose on itself, it's a means to accomplish something
1080 2013-12-15 13:26:32 <sipa> what do you want to accomplish?
1081 2013-12-15 13:27:29 <deanclkclk> I want to create an app...like an exchange to create address, send payments, etc
1082 2013-12-15 13:27:42 <sipa> i would strongly encourage you to reconsider
1083 2013-12-15 13:27:46 agnostic_ has joined
1084 2013-12-15 13:27:53 <sipa> but if you want to learn, just try what we're telling you
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1086 2013-12-15 13:28:00 <sipa> try to send getinfo for example
1087 2013-12-15 13:28:45 <sipa> if you want to create an app that uses JSON-RPC, then yes obviously you have to create an app
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1089 2013-12-15 13:29:04 <sipa> if you just want to test whether your bitcoind server is working, you can use the command-line tool to send it a command
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1092 2013-12-15 13:29:50 <sipa> (and i hope that by 'app' you don't mean an android/iphone mobile application - those shouldn't be talking to your bitcoind directly)
1093 2013-12-15 13:29:52 <deanclkclk> sipa: \C:\Users\TEST\Documents\bitcoin_daemon\daemon>bitcoind -conf="C:\Users\TEST\Docu
1094 2013-12-15 13:29:54 <deanclkclk> ments\bitcoin_daemon\data\data.config"  -datadir="C:\Users\TEST\AppData\Roaming\
1095 2013-12-15 13:29:55 <deanclkclk> Bitcoin\blocks" getinfo
1096 2013-12-15 13:29:59 <deanclkclk> error: couldn't connect to server
1097 2013-12-15 13:30:30 <sipa> ok, amything in debug.log?
1098 2013-12-15 13:30:34 <deanclkclk> yeah sipa it's not a mobile app
1099 2013-12-15 13:30:43 <deanclkclk> where would I find that?
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1101 2013-12-15 13:30:49 <sipa> in the datadir
1102 2013-12-15 13:31:05 <sipa> also, why do you pass the 'blocks' dir as datadir?
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1108 2013-12-15 13:32:16 <deanclkclk> it's not in the same location as my wallet
1109 2013-12-15 13:32:23 <deanclkclk> I copied the bitcoind.exe and place it somewhere else
1110 2013-12-15 13:32:42 <sipa> the datadir is where your wallet is
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1118 2013-12-15 13:37:54 <deanclkclk> ok I found --datadir="C:\Users\TEST\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\blocks\" found debug.log
1119 2013-12-15 13:38:06 <deanclkclk> and deleted everything from inside it
1120 2013-12-15 13:38:20 <deanclkclk> then run the command again...open the file and it's empty
1121 2013-12-15 13:39:03 <kjj> do you have a copy of bitcoind or bitcoin-qt running?
1122 2013-12-15 13:40:25 <deanclkclk> I did but, I run cntrl+ "-" + "c" to close it
1123 2013-12-15 13:40:33 <deanclkclk> so I'm thinking it maybe still running
1124 2013-12-15 13:40:51 <kjj> why did you close it?
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1127 2013-12-15 13:42:07 <deanclkclk> because, it was started as a server and I wanted to run a command
1128 2013-12-15 13:42:23 <tholenst> you need to start it as server before you can run a command. one needs to get used to it :)
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1130 2013-12-15 13:43:53 <tholenst> (1) run an instance of bitcoind -- this will be your server; (2) use another instance of bitcoind (or if you have bitcoin-cli) to execute the command
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1132 2013-12-15 13:44:05 <deanclkclk> then if I start it ..how can I test it to see if it's indeed running?
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1135 2013-12-15 13:45:16 <deanclkclk> tholenst: are those  options or steps?
1136 2013-12-15 13:45:22 <tholenst> those are steps
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1138 2013-12-15 13:45:25 <deanclkclk> ok
1139 2013-12-15 13:46:50 <deanclkclk> something isn't right..I'm going to do a screen share for those who can help me
1140 2013-12-15 13:47:54 <kjj> what isn't right?
1141 2013-12-15 13:48:12 <tholenst> go ahead and try the following: in the first window you run "./bitcoind", in another window you run "./bitcoind getblockcount"
1142 2013-12-15 13:48:14 <deanclkclk> https://secure.join.me/316-246-772
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1144 2013-12-15 13:48:49 <deanclkclk> look at the screen share kjj
1145 2013-12-15 13:48:59 <deanclkclk> it's a join.me link
1146 2013-12-15 13:48:59 <deanclkclk> u will see my screen
1147 2013-12-15 13:49:14 <kjj> uh, no.  I'm not going to some random website for you
1148 2013-12-15 13:49:23 <deanclkclk> :S
1149 2013-12-15 13:49:25 <deanclkclk> ok
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1151 2013-12-15 13:50:45 <deanclkclk> so in one window..it seems the server is running and in the other...I run the command bitcoind getinfo
1152 2013-12-15 13:50:48 <deanclkclk> error
1153 2013-12-15 13:50:59 <kjj> what error?
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1157 2013-12-15 13:52:11 <deanclkclk> this is the first screen -> C:\Users\Dean\Documents\bitcoin_daemon\daemon>bitcoind -conf="C:\Users\Dean\Docu
1158 2013-12-15 13:52:13 <deanclkclk> ments\bitcoin_daemon\data\data.config"  -datadir="C:\Users\Dean\AppData\Roaming\
1159 2013-12-15 13:52:14 <deanclkclk> Bitcoin\blocks"
1160 2013-12-15 13:52:36 <deanclkclk> this is my second screen -> C:\Users\Dean\Documents\bitcoin_daemon\daemon>bitcoind getinfo
1161 2013-12-15 13:52:37 <deanclkclk> error: You must set rpcpassword=<password> in the configuration file:
1162 2013-12-15 13:52:40 <deanclkclk> C:\Users\Dean\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\bitcoin.conf
1163 2013-12-15 13:52:40 <deanclkclk> If the file does not exist, create it with owner-readable-only file permissions.
1164 2013-12-15 13:52:53 <tholenst> well, do what it says :)
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1166 2013-12-15 13:53:07 <tholenst> does it give you an example how it could look like?
1167 2013-12-15 13:53:08 <deanclkclk> I thought I was testing the first instance "server" with the second instance
1168 2013-12-15 13:53:13 <kjj> wait
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1170 2013-12-15 13:53:20 <kjj> you already have a config file
1171 2013-12-15 13:53:27 <deanclkclk> then I'll have 2 instances
1172 2013-12-15 13:53:39 <kjj> specify the -conf= option on the getinfo request
1173 2013-12-15 13:53:44 <deanclkclk> I just want to test the first instance...the "server" to see if it's running
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1175 2013-12-15 13:54:05 <tholenst> oh kjj is right! I didn't pay attention!
1176 2013-12-15 13:54:36 <kjj> also, your server instance probably shouldn't specify the blocks directory as the datadir
1177 2013-12-15 13:54:51 <kjj> but if you've been running it that way all along, leave it
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1182 2013-12-15 13:56:55 <deanclkclk> ok
1183 2013-12-15 13:57:04 <deanclkclk> so what you suggested works kjj
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1187 2013-12-15 13:58:15 <deanclkclk> but, I guess the only way to test the server is to create an application to consume the json-rpc
1188 2013-12-15 13:58:19 <deanclkclk> thx guys
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1194 2013-12-15 14:01:53 <thermoman> what's the .lock file for? the file doesn't get deleted on shutdown
1195 2013-12-15 14:02:05 <thermoman> and the client starts even when the .lock file exists
1196 2013-12-15 14:02:11 <thermoman> so there seems to be no use
1197 2013-12-15 14:02:19 <thermoman> why create it in the 1st place?
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1199 2013-12-15 14:02:45 <kjj> pretty sure it is an artifact of bdb
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1265 2013-12-15 14:41:32 <agath> I just thought something it may already have been discussed... but isn't it possible to divide the blockchain in chunks and distribute it among clients so it's not needed to have the full blockchain but at the same time many copies of each chunk exist?
1266 2013-12-15 14:41:39 agnostic_ has joined
1267 2013-12-15 14:41:50 <agath> and let the user choose how much storage he can dedicate to the blockchain?
1268 2013-12-15 14:42:01 Sealy has joined
1269 2013-12-15 14:42:23 <agath> like distributed filesystem do..
1270 2013-12-15 14:42:33 <kjj> yeah, been discussed plenty of times
1271 2013-12-15 14:42:53 <agath> it doesn't surprise me :-)
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1273 2013-12-15 14:43:13 <kjj> each node still needs to see the full chain to verify that it is valid, but they don't need to store it
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1275 2013-12-15 14:43:36 <agath> yes, indeed
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1277 2013-12-15 14:44:08 <kjj> but storage is cheap for proper computers, so there is no point discarding it.  and where storage isn't cheap, there are tricks that can be used (SPV) to avoid needing it at all
1278 2013-12-15 14:44:36 <agath> but SPV if I am not wrong, doesn't assure that the blockchain isn't modified...
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1282 2013-12-15 14:46:18 <sharperguy> Can bitcoind run on a raspberry pi?
1283 2013-12-15 14:46:56 <kjj> yeah, people do it
1284 2013-12-15 14:47:19 <wumpus> I'd suggest getting a somewhat higher powered ARM box for running bitcoind, but yeah some people are doing it
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1287 2013-12-15 14:47:58 <sharperguy> wumpus: I just want to use it as a temporary server for developing a webapp with bitcoin
1288 2013-12-15 14:48:12 <sharperguy> wumpus: probably no more than one or two users
1289 2013-12-15 14:48:22 <wumpus> rpis are very, very slow
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1291 2013-12-15 14:49:15 <kjj> the server you are doing your development on is almost certainly a better choice for hosting bitcoind
1292 2013-12-15 14:49:31 <wumpus> sharperguy: in that case, why not use some old PC or laptop instead
1293 2013-12-15 14:50:23 <sharperguy> wumpus: because i dont have one available at the moment
1294 2013-12-15 14:51:00 <sharperguy> maybe I should use a VM then
1295 2013-12-15 14:51:13 <melvster> anyone know is there an equivalent of brainwallet.org for the testnet?
1296 2013-12-15 14:51:17 <sharperguy> I would like something separated from the development machine
1297 2013-12-15 14:51:42 <sharperguy> wouldn't the samewallets generated there work with testnet?
1298 2013-12-15 14:51:56 <melvster> you need the right network prefix
1299 2013-12-15 14:51:59 <melvster> small change i guess
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1302 2013-12-15 14:52:38 <melvster> oh
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1304 2013-12-15 14:52:49 <melvster> there's a dropdown on the right with testnet ... yay!
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1346 2013-12-15 15:22:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Uh, what the hell? Does anyone have any idea what this script is supposed to be?
1347 2013-12-15 15:22:12 agnostic98 has joined
1348 2013-12-15 15:22:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|OP_RIPEMD160 OP_HASH256 OP_HASH160 OP_NOP6 OP_LESSTHAN OP_GREATERTHAN OP_1ADD OP_1ADD OP_0NOTEQUAL OP_1SUB OP_EQUAL OP_TOALTSTACK OP_FROMALTSTACK OP_ROT OP_NOP OP_1NEGATE OP_1NEGATE OP_1NEGATE 8 OP_DEPTH OP_DUP OP_DUP OP_DUP OP_PICK OP_ROLL OP_3DUP OP_2DUP OP_SIZE OP_BOOLAND OP_BOOLOR OP_WITHIN OP_LESSTHANOREQUAL OP_GREATERTHANOREQUAL OP_HASH256 OP_HASH160
1349 2013-12-15 15:22:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|OP_HASH160 OP_HASH256 OP_HASH160 OP_HASH256 OP_HASH256 OP_HASH256 OP_HASH160 OP_HASH160 OP_HASH160 OP_HASH160 OP_RIPEMD160 OP_RIPEMD160 OP_RIPEMD160 OP_SHA256 OP_SHA256 OP_CHECKSIG OP_SHA256 OP_SHA1 OP_SHA256 OP_SHA1 OP_EQUALVERIFY
1350 2013-12-15 15:23:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(testnet, transaction d959f4b92f8fdf3040354e19d31bd6bf2d981bc36ef9891cd47850ae7d060d02)
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1354 2013-12-15 15:24:25 <melvster> wow that's quite a tx
1355 2013-12-15 15:25:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...indeed.
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1358 2013-12-15 15:27:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|safa: you need to be identified to nickserv to talk in here
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1361 2013-12-15 15:27:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|17:23:22 <safa> sorry for some reason I can't speak on the #bitcoin-dev.  perhaps it's a buffer overflow attempt for some remote application.
1362 2013-12-15 15:27:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How would that work? o_O
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1372 2013-12-15 15:31:50 <safa> a remote application may have set aside limited space in a string or a database entry for the script parameters without adequate size checking.
1373 2013-12-15 15:33:03 <Apocalyptic> ^^
1374 2013-12-15 15:33:09 <Apocalyptic> makes sense
1375 2013-12-15 15:33:48 <safa> thanks for the nick registration advice.  i just recompiled ircii-2.8.2.  feels good to be back! :)
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1378 2013-12-15 15:34:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hrm
1379 2013-12-15 15:35:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|safa: The thing is, I'm pretty sure that script won't be getting executed
1380 2013-12-15 15:35:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I mean, is there any way to satisfy that thing?)
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1382 2013-12-15 15:36:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unless that script can be signed for, it won't execute since it won't be relayed, unless there's something I'm missing?
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1452 2013-12-15 16:20:56 <gwern> hola. so I need to tell Gavin about a possibly-schizophrenic stalker that seems to be targeting him. does anyone have a real contact email for him they wouldn't mind giving me?
1453 2013-12-15 16:21:23 <copumpkin> :/
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1459 2013-12-15 16:24:39 <andytoshi> michagogo|cloud: sorry, the timer goes into the negative whenever i manually change sessions
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1461 2013-12-15 16:24:50 <andytoshi> and there was about a 1-hour window when i had mainnet addresses up :P
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1472 2013-12-15 16:29:13 <gwern> anyone? given the nature of the issue, I'd prefer to tell gavin sooner rather than later
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1482 2013-12-15 16:33:02 <alex_fun> hey folks how I can check current block height ?
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1486 2013-12-15 16:34:31 <andytoshi> alex_fun: bitcoind getblockcount
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1490 2013-12-15 16:37:59 <alex_fun> andytoshi: I though so the current block height then = latest block aka say latest block is 500000000 then that is current height?
1491 2013-12-15 16:38:06 <alex_fun> as all it shows is latest block
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1494 2013-12-15 16:39:26 <andytoshi> alex_fun: to check the actual blockheight, go on #bitcoin and write ;;bc,blocks
1495 2013-12-15 16:40:13 <alex_fun> andytoshi: is there some way to do it via bitcoind call?
1496 2013-12-15 16:40:16 <andytoshi> if your client is in sync, both numbers will be the same
1497 2013-12-15 16:40:29 <andytoshi> if your client is not in sync, there is no way it could know the actual block height
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1500 2013-12-15 16:41:02 <alex_fun> ty
1501 2013-12-15 16:41:03 <alex_fun> :)
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1617 2013-12-15 17:56:16 <arioBarzan> shouldn't the output of OP_EQUALVERIFY be nothing/false? it is shown as true/false in http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script
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1661 2013-12-15 18:54:33 <btiefert> true is !false, arioBarzan
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1664 2013-12-15 18:56:13 <andytoshi> arioBarzan: yeah, i guess that's an inconsistency in the wiki
1665 2013-12-15 18:57:44 <andytoshi> oh, no, OP_VERIFY does return FALSE
1666 2013-12-15 18:57:53 <andytoshi> you can keep on computing even if the transaction is invalid
1667 2013-12-15 18:58:27 <andytoshi> i'm not sure if bitcoind actually does, there would be no point to it
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1670 2013-12-15 18:58:41 <arioBarzan> OP_VERIFY returns Nothing/False according to wiki
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1673 2013-12-15 18:59:51 <arioBarzan> In case of top item on the stack being TRUE, I think OP_VERIFY should return nothing.
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1675 2013-12-15 19:00:08 <andytoshi> right, it returns nothing if its input is TRUE, returns FALSE if the input is FALSE
1676 2013-12-15 19:00:12 <arioBarzan> so OP_EQUALVERIFY should do the same
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1678 2013-12-15 19:00:17 <andytoshi> which is another way of saying "pops TRUE, leaves FALSE alone"
1679 2013-12-15 19:01:25 <arioBarzan> so that's an inconsistency in the wiki as you said, right?
1680 2013-12-15 19:02:48 <andytoshi> if you give equal inputs to OP_EQUALVERIFY, OP_EQUAL returns TRUE and then OP_VERIFY pops that TRUE..
1681 2013-12-15 19:02:50 <andytoshi> so yeah, you're right
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1683 2013-12-15 19:08:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|s/inconsistency/mistake/
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1696 2013-12-15 19:29:52 <robonerd> someone messaged mein here but i lost in the scrollback
1697 2013-12-15 19:35:46 <saracen> robonerd: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/12/15#l1387107454
1698 2013-12-15 19:36:12 <robonerd> thank you
1699 2013-12-15 19:36:59 <saracen> Wonder why the log formatting has messed up cloud|michagogo's text ;x
1700 2013-12-15 19:37:21 <robonerd> yea udnno
1701 2013-12-15 19:37:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I guess it doesn't like the |
1702 2013-12-15 19:38:08 <robonerd> michagogo|cloud no i didn't know about the policy
1703 2013-12-15 19:38:09 datagutt has joined
1704 2013-12-15 19:38:15 <robonerd> i just saw a need and filled it
1705 2013-12-15 19:38:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|robonerd: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming
1706 2013-12-15 19:38:22 <robonerd> can we get it official status somehow?
1707 2013-12-15 19:38:29 <robonerd> ppl like it
1708 2013-12-15 19:38:37 <robonerd> it's bringing us bitcoin related app devs together
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1738 2013-12-15 20:01:38 <jaakkos> hi, is there a way to achieve bitcoind "accounts" functionality via the JSON api but have an SPV client instead of full node? i'm low on disk space and network traffic...
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1744 2013-12-15 20:05:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jaakkos: bitcoind doesn't do SPV.
1745 2013-12-15 20:06:16 <jaakkos> can you recommend a drop-in replacement, perhaps, to get functionality similar to accounts?
1746 2013-12-15 20:06:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jaakkos: Why do you want the accounts functionality?
1747 2013-12-15 20:06:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(hint: you probably don't)
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1749 2013-12-15 20:08:12 <jaakkos> it's enough if i can check balance of an address (whose privkey i know fwiw, so it's part of the wallet)
1750 2013-12-15 20:08:48 <jaakkos> in theory i could just use blockchain.info api...
1751 2013-12-15 20:08:55 <jaakkos> i suppose that's free of charge
1752 2013-12-15 20:09:07 <jaakkos> but it's a 3rd party
1753 2013-12-15 20:09:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jaakkos: What are you looking to do, and why?
1754 2013-12-15 20:09:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(what are you looking for an address balance for?)
1755 2013-12-15 20:10:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because for one, the accounts feature wouldn't help with address balances at all
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1757 2013-12-15 20:10:26 <jaakkos> with accounts i could generate separate deposit addr for each deposit
1758 2013-12-15 20:10:39 <jaakkos> and still handle all those addrs as the same basket
1759 2013-12-15 20:10:49 <jaakkos> but in fact i don't care if the deposit addr is the same
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1761 2013-12-15 20:11:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jaakkos: Please, describe what you're going for
1762 2013-12-15 20:11:03 <jaakkos> of course i could still add multiple deposit addrs in my own SQL
1763 2013-12-15 20:11:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bigger picture, zoomed out
1764 2013-12-15 20:11:22 <jaakkos> i'm afraid i can't do that
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1766 2013-12-15 20:11:55 <jaakkos> i'd like to though.
1767 2013-12-15 20:12:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why not?
1768 2013-12-15 20:12:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Something secret until launch?
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1772 2013-12-15 20:14:31 <jaakkos> something like that :) in fact i don't really have to trust the balances at this part too much, i will just get them from blockchain.info
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1774 2013-12-15 20:14:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jaakkos: Try listunspent and/or listreceivedbyaddress
1775 2013-12-15 20:14:49 <BlueMatt> lulwut
1776 2013-12-15 20:14:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or getreceivedbyaddress
1777 2013-12-15 20:14:59 <BlueMatt> oh, I missed the "don't"
1778 2013-12-15 20:15:00 <jaakkos> michagogo|cloud: that requires bitcoind
1779 2013-12-15 20:15:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh
1780 2013-12-15 20:15:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Right.
1781 2013-12-15 20:15:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(forgot about the "looking for a bitcoind alternative" part)
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1791 2013-12-15 20:30:45 <treehug88> hi, which distro do most bitcoin developers use to develop on? (I'm assuming most use some sort of linux)
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1793 2013-12-15 20:32:16 <treehug88> I was able to build bitcoind from source recently, but it complained about not having the right version of berkeley DB
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1795 2013-12-15 20:32:26 <BlueMatt> yes, by far most devs are on linux
1796 2013-12-15 20:32:43 <soylentbomb> Debian or Ubuntu, I think.
1797 2013-12-15 20:32:43 <warren> devs no longer need to leave linux
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1799 2013-12-15 20:32:55 <BlueMatt> soylentbomb: no, I think probably fedora
1800 2013-12-15 20:33:10 <BlueMatt> soylentbomb: no one uses debian on a desktop, and no one uses ubuntu anymore period
1801 2013-12-15 20:33:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|treehug88: what system are you on?
1802 2013-12-15 20:33:39 * soylentbomb shrugs
1803 2013-12-15 20:33:40 <treehug88> which distro is most conducive to buildability?  I was hoping for one with Long Term Support by that may be a dream. I normally use a centos variant but have been looking for another one that supports bitcoin better
1804 2013-12-15 20:33:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(and, what version did you build?)
1805 2013-12-15 20:33:51 <BlueMatt> treehug88: I think, for development, most devs use a 5.X bdb, though not for releases
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1807 2013-12-15 20:34:24 <jouke> no one uses ubuntu?
1808 2013-12-15 20:34:45 <BlueMatt> no one who cares seriously about privacy/security/linux uses ubuntu
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1810 2013-12-15 20:34:54 <treehug88> I built the master branch about a week ago, I was just messing around. If I redid it I'd use the 0.8.6 tag/branch
1811 2013-12-15 20:34:54 <warren> BlueMatt: I dev with 4.8
1812 2013-12-15 20:34:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google bitcoin/bitcoin ppa
1813 2013-12-15 20:34:59 <gribble> Bitcoin - Stable Channel : “Bitcoin” team - Launchpad: <https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/>; bitcoin - Personal Package Archives : Ubuntu: <https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=bitcoin>; 11.10 - Bitcoin PPA installation problem - Ask Ubuntu: <http://askubuntu.com/questions/123592/bitcoin-ppa-installation-problem>
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1815 2013-12-15 20:35:21 <treehug88> michagogo|cloud: are you comfortable using that PPA? WHo builds it?
1816 2013-12-15 20:35:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: Ah, good to see that's updated
1817 2013-12-15 20:35:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|treehug88: BlueMatt maintains it
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1819 2013-12-15 20:36:02 <BlueMatt> canonical's launchpad servers build it, I maintain it
1820 2013-12-15 20:36:09 duckxxx has joined
1821 2013-12-15 20:36:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|treehug88: (note that that ppa [the first result for that google query]) is also linked to from bitcoin.org/en/download)
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1823 2013-12-15 20:36:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That PPA also serves BDB 4.8 packages
1824 2013-12-15 20:36:50 <treehug88> noted, thanks michagogo|cloud and BlueMatt, I'll check that out
1825 2013-12-15 20:37:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|pretty easy to use, too -- `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin`
1826 2013-12-15 20:38:37 <treehug88> which package has add-apt-repository ?
1827 2013-12-15 20:39:43 <BlueMatt> it should ship by default with ubuntu
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1830 2013-12-15 20:40:18 <treehug88> not with the server version apparently
1831 2013-12-15 20:40:19 <treehug88> apt-get install python-software-properties
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1843 2013-12-15 20:46:10 <treehug88> got it going, thanks again Bluematt and michagogo|cloud
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1863 2013-12-15 21:28:22 <stevedekorte> is there a list somewhere of small things that need to be done that developers with a bit of free time could help with?
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1866 2013-12-15 21:29:45 <BlueMatt> code review, code review, code review, code review and run test plans
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1868 2013-12-15 21:30:11 <treehug88> BlueMatt: is there particular code that's seeking review?
1869 2013-12-15 21:30:40 <sipa> there are currently 48 pull requests open... though many are outdated
1870 2013-12-15 21:31:21 <sipa> and thanks to BlueMatt, there are binaries available for each, so you can easily test if you like to see some merged quickly
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1888 2013-12-15 21:52:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(also there's always the issue tracker...)
1889 2013-12-15 21:53:56 <sipa> not how many issues are "actionable" though
1890 2013-12-15 21:54:01 <sipa> +sure
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1895 2013-12-15 21:57:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Right, of course
1896 2013-12-15 21:59:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think I filed an issue/feature request a while back (when I was newish here)
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1898 2013-12-15 21:59:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's the kind of thing that (I suspect...) would be ~simple
1899 2013-12-15 21:59:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(but not being familiar with the code, it might not be...)
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1942 2013-12-15 22:50:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2512 was the issue I mentioned earlier
1943 2013-12-15 22:52:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Skimming the list at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues, there do appear to be some issues for (again, just guessing because I'm not familiar with the code, so I don't know how complex different new features are) some fairly simple/trivial improvements
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