1 2013-12-21 00:00:06 <sipa> only the wallet uses bdb
   2 2013-12-21 00:00:56 <sipa> deanclkclk: authentication uses http auth
   3 2013-12-21 00:01:03 mitz has joined
   4 2013-12-21 00:01:05 <sipa> deanclkclk: so username/pass are sent in http headers
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   6 2013-12-21 00:01:15 <coingenuity> ah, so chain is not stored in bdb?
   7 2013-12-21 00:01:15 <coingenuity> thats news to me xD
   8 2013-12-21 00:01:24 <deanclkclk> is there an example sipa ?
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  11 2013-12-21 00:01:33 <sipa> coingenuity: the chain was never stored in bdb
  12 2013-12-21 00:01:47 <sipa> coingenuity: until 0.7.x, the transaction index was stored in bdb
  13 2013-12-21 00:02:07 <sipa> since 0.8.x, there is no more transaction index, but the chainstate and block index are leveldb
  14 2013-12-21 00:02:19 <coingenuity> cool beans sipa, i'll give dbcache a shot... ill bloat it up to 8000 since this box has a fair bit of ram to nom on
  15 2013-12-21 00:02:28 <coingenuity> ah, cool
  16 2013-12-21 00:02:43 <sipa> coingenuity: over 2000 hardly matters
  17 2013-12-21 00:03:00 <sipa> the chain itself is just raw append-only files on disk
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  19 2013-12-21 00:04:03 <coingenuity> ah, alright
  20 2013-12-21 00:04:18 <coingenuity> well disk is already mega fast so it should just be smooth as butter at 2k
  21 2013-12-21 00:04:34 <coingenuity> doubt the ram buffer of data to write will ever exceed that
  22 2013-12-21 00:04:49 <sipa> dbcache helps both preventing writes and reads
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  24 2013-12-21 00:07:33 <coingenuity> okie dokie, thanks sipa - will give it a shot and see how fast it goes
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 132 2013-12-21 01:56:50 <HaltingState> gmaxwell, how do i stop gribble from spamming me every login
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 134 2013-12-21 01:58:30 <mtbomb> HaltingState: Are you using freenode?
 135 2013-12-21 01:58:39 <HaltingState> yes
 136 2013-12-21 01:58:51 <mtbomb> theres an IRC icon in the upper left
 137 2013-12-21 01:58:59 rastapopuloto has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 138 2013-12-21 01:59:01 <HaltingState> i am on xchat
 139 2013-12-21 01:59:03 mynameis has quit (Quit: mynameis)
 140 2013-12-21 01:59:13 <mtbomb> oh, I don't know that program
 141 2013-12-21 01:59:14 <HaltingState> everytime i login gribble messages me to remind me not to be noob
 142 2013-12-21 01:59:30 <TheLordOfTime> HaltingState, you can't stop that
 143 2013-12-21 01:59:31 <TheLordOfTime> not possible
 144 2013-12-21 01:59:38 <TheLordOfTime> the entrymsg always happens every time you reconnect
 145 2013-12-21 01:59:50 <TheLordOfTime> short of ignoring ALL gribble messages you're going to just have to stop closing IRC
 146 2013-12-21 01:59:53 <TheLordOfTime> either that or get an IRC bouncer
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 148 2013-12-21 02:02:34 <HaltingState> ;;disable
 149 2013-12-21 02:02:35 <gribble> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
 150 2013-12-21 02:03:01 <HaltingState> there are a billion commands but no command to turn off greeting lol
 151 2013-12-21 02:03:20 <TheLordOfTime> HaltingState, you obviously missed my messages
 152 2013-12-21 02:03:20 <TheLordOfTime> [2013/12/20 20:55:37] <TheLordOfTime> HaltingState, you can't stop that
 153 2013-12-21 02:03:20 <TheLordOfTime> [2013/12/20 20:55:39] <TheLordOfTime> not possible
 154 2013-12-21 02:03:28 <TheLordOfTime> HaltingState, there's no option in the bot to "disable" that yourself
 155 2013-12-21 02:03:28 Gabralkhan has joined
 156 2013-12-21 02:03:42 <HaltingState> if ;;disable worked, it would have fixed the problem =P
 157 2013-12-21 02:03:44 <TheLordOfTime> so short of setting an ignore globally on gribble in your irc client the only other option is to not turn off IRC
 158 2013-12-21 02:03:50 <HaltingState> i will get bouncer
 159 2013-12-21 02:04:02 <maaku> Compile error Mac OS X 10.9
 160 2013-12-21 02:04:03 <maaku> Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64: "Db::verify(char const*, char const*, std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >*, unsigned int)", referenced from:
 161 2013-12-21 02:04:08 <maaku> anyone encountered this?
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 169 2013-12-21 02:19:26 <shesek> I really think someone should publish xchat/irssu/mirc plugins to ignore gribble's warnings, I see people (including myself) asking about that like 5 times a day
 170 2013-12-21 02:20:23 <ne0futur> better than people getting scammed 5 times a day . . .
 171 2013-12-21 02:21:30 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 172 2013-12-21 02:22:11 <shesek> I'm pretty sure that those who've seen it enough times to want to opt-out won't be scammed because they stop getting those messages
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 174 2013-12-21 02:23:02 <sipa> what message?
 175 2013-12-21 02:23:13 gcX46 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 176 2013-12-21 02:23:16 <maaku> i don't see any message either...
 177 2013-12-21 02:23:18 <shesek> gribble's warnings about malwares
 178 2013-12-21 02:23:34 <sipa> which channel?
 179 2013-12-21 02:23:58 <shesek> I think its sent to everyone who joins #bitcoin / #bitcoin-otc
 180 2013-12-21 02:24:13 <shesek> I have so many bitcoin-related channels open that I'm not really sure, heh
 181 2013-12-21 02:24:26 <sipa> oh
 182 2013-12-21 02:24:38 <sipa> meh
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 185 2013-12-21 02:25:09 <sipa> a good reason not to join/quit all the time :)
 186 2013-12-21 02:25:41 <shesek> you can't really help it when you have a crappy internet provider :(
 187 2013-12-21 02:26:02 msvb-lab has joined
 188 2013-12-21 02:26:09 <sipa> run your irc client remotely :)
 189 2013-12-21 02:26:10 <upb> shell+screen/tmux+irssi
 190 2013-12-21 02:26:55 <sipa> yeah, that - though it's not really a solution for everyone
 191 2013-12-21 02:27:02 sois has joined
 192 2013-12-21 02:28:02 <shesek> I tried, but I really can't stand non-gui irc clients (and I'm using vim as my primary editor)
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 194 2013-12-21 02:33:43 <lianj> shesek: http://wiki.znc.in/ZNC irc bouncer
 195 2013-12-21 02:35:01 <shesek> yeah, I guess I could set up a bouncer...
 196 2013-12-21 02:35:21 <shesek> or I can just live with gribble's messages, which is much easier :-)
 197 2013-12-21 02:36:04 <maaku> shesek: quassel
 198 2013-12-21 02:36:32 <maaku> http://quassel-irc.org/
 199 2013-12-21 02:36:48 <lianj> shesek: saying connected is a bit more convenient though
 200 2013-12-21 02:36:54 <lianj> but whatever :)
 201 2013-12-21 02:37:44 <shesek> yes, it definitely has some other advantages, but too much hassle imho
 202 2013-12-21 02:37:59 <shesek> especially nowadays with memoserv
 203 2013-12-21 02:38:09 andytoshi has joined
 204 2013-12-21 02:38:38 <shesek> was much useful a few years back when none of that fancy services existed :)
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 206 2013-12-21 02:40:06 <shesek> well, memoserv and chanserv/nickserv... back in the day, if you disconnected someone else might've taken over your channel
 207 2013-12-21 02:40:44 <shesek> maaku, quassel looks pretty neat, but I think I'm too used for xchat now
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 315 2013-12-21 06:34:01 <warren> sipa: according to the acoustic cryptanalysis paper apparently gmp's optimizations making it non-constant time substantially enabled that attack.  would that be a similar concern for secp256k1 + gmp?
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 317 2013-12-21 06:36:55 <gmaxwell> warren: the openssl signing is already substantially not constant time. There is no pretext of timing/power-analysis security in any bitcoin signing code I've seen in existance.
 318 2013-12-21 06:37:48 <CodeShark> in practice, timing/power-analysis attacks on openssl in this context are difficult
 319 2013-12-21 06:37:53 <gmaxwell> But none of the implementations I'm aware of allow an attacker to on-demand trigger on demand signing with fully attacker chosen inputs (the non-determinism of DSA makes that impossible)
 320 2013-12-21 06:37:55 ValicekB has joined
 321 2013-12-21 06:38:15 <gmaxwell> warren: that audio thing requires automatic decryption of thousands of messages, it's neat but not exactly a pratical attack.
 322 2013-12-21 06:39:08 <CodeShark> I have a constant-time implementation of signing, but it's significantly slower than openssl
 323 2013-12-21 06:39:24 <CodeShark> in particular, the modular inverse
 324 2013-12-21 06:39:33 <gmaxwell> as expected.
 325 2013-12-21 06:39:37 <gmaxwell> And thats fine.
 326 2013-12-21 06:39:54 <warren> ok thanks
 327 2013-12-21 06:39:56 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: Sipa did want to add constant time signing stuff for his library.
 328 2013-12-21 06:40:34 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: yes, I contributed a few commits for that
 329 2013-12-21 06:40:40 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: you still probably have a power analysis vulnerability, but its probably prudent to use a constant time one regardless.
 330 2013-12-21 06:40:41 <CodeShark> but we never finished it completely
 331 2013-12-21 06:40:59 abishek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 332 2013-12-21 06:41:11 <CodeShark> the modular inverse can be implemented as a constant-time modular exponentiation
 333 2013-12-21 06:41:57 <CodeShark> which is significantly slower than lehman's algorithm, but far simpler to make constant-time
 334 2013-12-21 06:42:38 <CodeShark> sipa and I had also discussed how to make curve operations constant-time
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 336 2013-12-21 06:44:13 <CodeShark> in any case, the secp256k1 library only needs to worry about optimizing verification, not signing
 337 2013-12-21 06:44:24 <CodeShark> and verification does not need to be constant time
 338 2013-12-21 06:44:57 <CodeShark> so perhaps verification and signing use different implementations of the math library
 339 2013-12-21 06:46:10 <CodeShark> power analysis can also be defeated by ensuring that the CPU performs the exact same instructions without branching regardless of input
 340 2013-12-21 06:46:30 nsh has joined
 341 2013-12-21 06:47:59 <warren> https://blog.goeswhere.com/2010/12/git-set-commit-id/  let's use this in some bad way.
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 353 2013-12-21 07:15:40 <sharperguy> Does bitcoin have an option to create a transaction which will be automatically reversed if the outputs are not spent in a certain amount of time?
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 356 2013-12-21 07:21:01 <CodeShark> not that I'm aware of...
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 361 2013-12-21 07:30:27 <Luke-Jr> well, you could pre-arrange a nlocktime transaction sending it back to a single person
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 390 2013-12-21 08:31:24 <MadrMan> is this where I can ask miner dev stuff? or is there a better chan?
 391 2013-12-21 08:32:53 <sipa> 1#bitcoin-mining perhaps
 392 2013-12-21 08:34:06 <MadrMan> that's not related to dev, is it?
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 394 2013-12-21 08:37:18 EngierkO has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 395 2013-12-21 08:37:26 <MadrMan> anyway, i was wondering how to calculate the merkle root from a getblocktemplate call, as it doesn't seem to return a 'coinbasetxn', and has an empty transactions list..
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 399 2013-12-21 08:41:27 <CodeShark> it does return a transactions list - at least the version I'm looking at
 400 2013-12-21 08:41:48 <MadrMan> using it on an altcoin, guess less transactions are happening there
 401 2013-12-21 08:41:54 <MadrMan> "transactions" : [],
 402 2013-12-21 08:42:06 <CodeShark> yeah, then perhaps the mempool is empty
 403 2013-12-21 08:42:21 <BlueMatt> heh, most altcoins have absolutely 0 transaction volume
 404 2013-12-21 08:42:28 <BlueMatt> they are 100% speculation
 405 2013-12-21 08:43:09 <CodeShark> as for coinbase, it's up to you to add an output
 406 2013-12-21 08:43:28 <sipa> MadrMan: irrelevant, unless the altcoin changed the way blick hashes are computed
 407 2013-12-21 08:43:35 <sipa> you create tge coinbase
 408 2013-12-21 08:43:47 <sipa> add the rest of the transactions
 409 2013-12-21 08:43:56 <sipa> and compute the merkle tree
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 411 2013-12-21 08:44:29 <MadrMan> ah that makes sense, thanks
 412 2013-12-21 08:44:45 <MadrMan> wiki made it seem like the coinbasetxn was always supplied
 413 2013-12-21 08:46:30 <CodeShark> how would it know where to send the coins?
 414 2013-12-21 08:49:19 <sipa> it may
 415 2013-12-21 08:49:31 <sipa> for example if you're mining in a pool
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 417 2013-12-21 08:50:02 <CodeShark> how would the getblocktemplate call know where to send the coins?
 418 2013-12-21 08:50:55 <BlueMatt> wow, looks like no part of the bloom filter stuff was in any way thought through. turns out not only was the implementation bugged, but the design doesnt really allow for reasonable false positive anonymity-performance tradeoffs :(
 419 2013-12-21 08:51:27 <BlueMatt> the anonymity set is <fp_rate**2 (over set of pubkeys in chain), but fp rate on txn is, on avg, something like 5*fp_rate
 420 2013-12-21 08:52:03 <sipa> CodeShark: getblocktemplate is a protocol; bitcoind is just one implementation
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 422 2013-12-21 08:52:25 <CodeShark> so the coinbase transaction outputs could be supplied via parameter?
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 425 2013-12-21 08:53:09 <sipa> if you call gbt to a pool, it will give you the coinbase tx
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 433 2013-12-21 09:01:16 <uiop> BlueMatt: (out of curiosity) what does the bloom filter have to do with anonymity?
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 444 2013-12-21 09:35:13 <wumpus> uiop: by setting a bloom filter you're revealing the set of keys you're interested in, this which are in your wallet
 445 2013-12-21 09:35:21 <wumpus> s/this/thus/
 446 2013-12-21 09:40:30 <uiop> wumpus: oh. i hadn't looked at the bip37 except for the title, and assumed the bloom filter was being used as an optim to avoid disk reads (or something)
 447 2013-12-21 09:40:44 * uiop has just looked at the content of bip37
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 450 2013-12-21 09:42:03 <wumpus> uiop: this may be an acceptable trade-off in some cases with limited bandwidth, but it still is one
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 458 2013-12-21 09:45:08 <uiop> wumpus: what if nodes gave to their neighbors the bloom filter *itself*? would that not solve the information disclosure?
 459 2013-12-21 09:45:28 <wumpus> IIRC that's exactly what they do
 460 2013-12-21 09:45:37 <uiop> heh, oh
 461 2013-12-21 09:45:42 * uiop is still reading...
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 609 2013-12-21 13:58:16 <deanclkclk> folks
 610 2013-12-21 13:58:18 <deanclkclk> question..is bitcoind json-rpc accessed over http or is it socket?
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 620 2013-12-21 14:11:36 <sipa> deanclkclk: http uses a socket...
 621 2013-12-21 14:11:46 <sipa> but yes it is http
 622 2013-12-21 14:12:13 <deanclkclk> sipa: I'm having a difficult problem trying to find a solution in java/spring
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 624 2013-12-21 14:12:18 <deanclkclk> nothing coherent
 625 2013-12-21 14:12:32 <deanclkclk> everything on the net uses a different library and some deprecated
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 648 2013-12-21 14:46:01 <Alina-malina> how can i see the date and time of bitcoin that was rewarder to miner and miners some ID?
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 654 2013-12-21 14:56:31 <sipa> what id?
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 656 2013-12-21 14:56:57 <Alina-malina> I dont know, something
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 658 2013-12-21 14:58:10 <sipa> if you have an actual question, i might be able to answer :)
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 660 2013-12-21 14:59:29 <Alina-malina> sipa, i want to know when the block was generated and what time a coin was rewarder to miner, is it possible to see that information?
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 663 2013-12-21 15:02:19 <sipa> approximately, if you know which block
 664 2013-12-21 15:02:53 <reCrypto> Hi guys. :)
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 693 2013-12-21 15:51:00 <Alina-malina> sipa, what other information i can retriee from bitcoin address?
 694 2013-12-21 15:51:34 <Alina-malina> *retrieve
 695 2013-12-21 15:51:36 <sipa> a block is not an address
 696 2013-12-21 15:51:40 <Alina-malina> i understand
 697 2013-12-21 15:51:49 <sipa> then what do you want?
 698 2013-12-21 15:51:50 <Alina-malina> i am trying to gather as much informatoin as it is possible
 699 2013-12-21 15:51:55 <sipa> about what?
 700 2013-12-21 15:52:04 <Alina-malina> about bitcoin address, blockchain
 701 2013-12-21 15:52:14 <Alina-malina> anything that is possible to know from address
 702 2013-12-21 15:52:35 <sipa> do you want transactions to an address?
 703 2013-12-21 15:52:51 <Alina-malina> that as well
 704 2013-12-21 15:53:21 <sipa> i don't think you understand what you are looking for
 705 2013-12-21 15:53:27 <Alina-malina> oh i understand
 706 2013-12-21 15:53:31 <Alina-malina> for example
 707 2013-12-21 15:54:11 <Alina-malina> Alice gave bob her bitcoin adress, bob wants to retrieve any possible informatoin from that address as much as he can, like when that address was created....
 708 2013-12-21 15:54:31 <sipa> you cannot know when an address is created
 709 2013-12-21 15:54:37 <Alina-malina> ok
 710 2013-12-21 15:54:53 <Alina-malina> so the address doesnt contain any additional information?
 711 2013-12-21 15:55:02 <Alina-malina> it is just a public key
 712 2013-12-21 15:55:10 <sipa> an address is just a destination for transactions
 713 2013-12-21 15:55:35 <Alina-malina> hmmmm
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 715 2013-12-21 15:55:57 <Alina-malina> even we cant see how much money have the wallet?
 716 2013-12-21 15:56:01 <Alina-malina> of that address
 717 2013-12-21 15:56:05 <Alina-malina> i mean bitcoins
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 737 2013-12-21 16:35:44 <petertodd> BlueMatt: re:bloom, oh yeah? is there a write-up of that math anywhere? I could use it for the darkwallet best practices document
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 740 2013-12-21 16:37:24 <ellisdenada> does anyone know if bitcoin-qt stores decrypted wallets in memory or actually writes to disk?
 741 2013-12-21 16:37:35 <petertodd> BlueMatt: long-term it's likely the case that wallets should just always use prefix filters simply because it's easier to reason about the anonymity set if the false positive set stays consistent
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 745 2013-12-21 16:49:55 <sipa> ellisdenada: only in memory
 746 2013-12-21 16:50:17 <ellisdenada> sipa: thanks
 747 2013-12-21 16:55:32 <ellisdenada> another question: any disadvantage to storing the blockchain on an external HD (so that every time I boot up a clean instance of linux to do some work on a wallet, I don't have to wait 7 years for it to download)?
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 750 2013-12-21 16:57:18 <kuzetsa> ellisdenada: no disadvantage that I can think of
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 752 2013-12-21 16:59:13 <sipa> external hard drives are frequently less reliable (usb controllers, connection breaking down...)
 753 2013-12-21 16:59:25 <sipa> so i think the chance for getting corruption would be worse
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 758 2013-12-21 17:06:58 <kuzetsa> hehe
 759 2013-12-21 17:07:23 <kuzetsa> yeah, sure, there's that (corruption, slower access times if it's lower RPMs, reliability, etc.)
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 761 2013-12-21 17:08:36 <ellisdenada> it'd be nice to have some kind of local cache of the BC though
 762 2013-12-21 17:09:21 <ellisdenada> 'cause this sync is taking a gazillion years
 763 2013-12-21 17:10:10 <sipa> -dbcache=X
 764 2013-12-21 17:10:17 <sipa> with X a number in megabytes
 765 2013-12-21 17:10:41 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i did some basic benchmarking of ProcessBlock
 766 2013-12-21 17:10:59 <phantomcircuit> afaict the version number checks where it looks 500 blocks back is using ~10% of the cpu time
 767 2013-12-21 17:11:10 <sipa> wut?
 768 2013-12-21 17:11:17 <phantomcircuit> seems like there is probably an easy optimization there ...
 769 2013-12-21 17:11:31 <phantomcircuit> yeah i was kind of surprised by it also
 770 2013-12-21 17:11:57 <phantomcircuit> shows how well everything else is optimized i guess
 771 2013-12-21 17:11:59 <phantomcircuit> heh
 772 2013-12-21 17:12:01 <sipa> perhaps with high dbcache and before sigchecks are enabled
 773 2013-12-21 17:12:15 <sipa> but even then
 774 2013-12-21 17:12:15 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 775 2013-12-21 17:12:25 <phantomcircuit> definitely before sigchecks :)
 776 2013-12-21 17:12:28 <sipa> the dbcache isn't even a hashmap
 777 2013-12-21 17:12:31 <phantomcircuit> and with dbcache at4096
 778 2013-12-21 17:12:42 <sipa> that'd be my first guess for optimizing things
 779 2013-12-21 17:12:45 <phantomcircuit> sipa, lol what is it?
 780 2013-12-21 17:12:53 <sipa> an stl::map
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 783 2013-12-21 17:12:58 <sipa> which is a tree map
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 785 2013-12-21 17:13:45 <phantomcircuit> sipa, AcceptBlock the block after "Enforce block.nVersion=2 rule that the coinbase starts with serialized block height"
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 787 2013-12-21 17:14:02 <phantomcircuit> im guessing the IsSuperMajority is the problem
 788 2013-12-21 17:14:18 <sipa> that could very easily be optimized
 789 2013-12-21 17:14:41 <sipa> just keep a count for each, that is updated on connect/disconnect
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 792 2013-12-21 17:16:54 <ellisdenada> sipa: is the github issue tracker best place to look for bugs to tackle?
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 794 2013-12-21 17:18:01 <sipa> probably, yeah
 795 2013-12-21 17:18:12 <sipa> though i doubt many of them are actionable directly
 796 2013-12-21 17:18:41 <sipa> phantomcircuit: what was the reason that removing vtxPrev could be a problem?
 797 2013-12-21 17:19:07 <ellisdenada> basically just interested in contributing somehow... any advice on where to start?
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 799 2013-12-21 17:19:48 <sipa> helping to test things is probably the most useful
 800 2013-12-21 17:19:51 <sipa> amd review code
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 803 2013-12-21 17:19:57 <nsh> mine's coffee, black, two sugars
 804 2013-12-21 17:20:00 <nsh> thanks
 805 2013-12-21 17:20:03 <nsh> (kiddin' on)
 806 2013-12-21 17:20:12 <sipa> java coffee?
 807 2013-12-21 17:20:16 * nsh shudders
 808 2013-12-21 17:20:23 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it wasn't removing vtxPrev but rather making IsConfirmed do what it says it does
 809 2013-12-21 17:20:36 <phantomcircuit> there's no problem with removing vtxPrev since it doesn't do anything anyways
 810 2013-12-21 17:20:59 <sipa> in what way doea isconfirmed not do what it says?
 811 2013-12-21 17:21:01 <phantomcircuit> fixing IsConfirmed changed the behavior of the getbalance rpc call in weird ways such that it could report negative balances
 812 2013-12-21 17:21:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it claims to tell you if a transaction is entirely dependent on outputs you control
 813 2013-12-21 17:22:03 <phantomcircuit> but vtxPrev is always empty
 814 2013-12-21 17:22:07 <phantomcircuit> so of course that doesn't work
 815 2013-12-21 17:22:17 <sipa> vtxPrev is not always empty?
 816 2013-12-21 17:22:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, vtxPrev always contains nothing but default ctor CTransaction objects
 817 2013-12-21 17:22:37 <sipa> it just only ever contains things that are in mapWallet to
 818 2013-12-21 17:22:40 <phantomcircuit> so it's effectively always empty
 819 2013-12-21 17:22:46 <sipa> huh?
 820 2013-12-21 17:22:58 <sipa> really?
 821 2013-12-21 17:23:02 <phantomcircuit> im pretty sure
 822 2013-12-21 17:23:22 <phantomcircuit> i'll check again though
 823 2013-12-21 17:23:22 <ellisdenada> nsh: hah
 824 2013-12-21 17:23:22 <ellisdenada> where do you live? I'll fedex it
 825 2013-12-21 17:24:18 <nsh> as long as you don't use UPS...
 826 2013-12-21 17:24:26 <nsh> i have a very traumatic experience with UPS deliveries
 827 2013-12-21 17:26:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, huh it *looks* like vtxPrev should have those
 828 2013-12-21 17:26:42 <phantomcircuit> but i distinctly remember them all being empty
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 831 2013-12-21 17:28:05 <phantomcircuit> sipa, weird you're right, so my replacement for the second half of IsConfirmed shouldn't change the behavior at all
 832 2013-12-21 17:28:16 <phantomcircuit> but im pretty sure it does
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 834 2013-12-21 17:29:42 <sipa> nsh: same!
 835 2013-12-21 17:29:50 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah actually looking at the patch i wasn't very careful
 836 2013-12-21 17:29:59 <phantomcircuit> it doesn't acquire the mempool lock so it could totally break stuff
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 838 2013-12-21 17:30:38 * nsh smiles
 839 2013-12-21 17:31:14 <TheLordOfTime> is there a reason a tx wouldn't be picked up in the chain or be visible on blockchain.info or the blockexplorer, even after an hour?
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 849 2013-12-21 17:35:21 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, is it non standard
 850 2013-12-21 17:35:42 <sipa> or low fees
 851 2013-12-21 17:35:54 <sipa> or miners don't like you
 852 2013-12-21 17:35:59 <sipa> or phase of the moon
 853 2013-12-21 17:36:04 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: phantomcircuit: ultimately it isn't my tx, i'm asking for someone in -otc
 854 2013-12-21 17:36:09 <TheLordOfTime> sipa: or those damn pesky cosmic rays
 855 2013-12-21 17:36:17 <TheLordOfTime> they say there's two such transactions that're not being picked up at all
 856 2013-12-21 17:36:18 <sipa> yeah, very nasty
 857 2013-12-21 17:36:49 <phantomcircuit> TheLordOfTime, if they sent them from their own client then it's possible they aren't in sync and the resend wallet transactions function isn't working
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 863 2013-12-21 17:44:06 <TheLordOfTime> phantomcircuit: Ping in -otc from the one affected.
 864 2013-12-21 17:44:25 <TheLordOfTime> ultimately though: [13/12/21 12:37:51] <kapiteined> TheLordOfTime: just the normal bitcoin-qt client if i look at the transaction details, the from and to address are the same.
 865 2013-12-21 17:46:20 <phantomcircuit> from address?
 866 2013-12-21 17:46:49 <phantomcircuit> pretty sure the client doesn't show a from address
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 920 2013-12-21 18:41:41 <Alina-malina> anyone please, if i generate valid bitcoin addresses offline how i can declare it to system that they are my?
 921 2013-12-21 18:42:34 <gmaxwell> Alina-malina: there is no need to declar it to the system that they are yours. They simply are. Also, this is a question for #bitcoin feel free to ask further questions there (I'm in there too)
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 929 2013-12-21 18:53:20 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: are you checking pms?
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 971 2013-12-21 19:47:33 <gmaxwell> wtf saivann stuck google analytics on bitcoin.org with a direct commit instead of a pull req.
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 976 2013-12-21 19:54:48 <Plarkplark_> are 0 confirmed transactions safe? (to about 100USD worth)?
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 978 2013-12-21 19:55:12 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: no
 979 2013-12-21 19:55:28 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: or yes if you trust the sender
 980 2013-12-21 19:56:23 <Plarkplark_> How hard is it to fake?
 981 2013-12-21 19:56:41 <Plarkplark_> does it require skill, money and computing power?
 982 2013-12-21 19:56:42 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: easy
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 984 2013-12-21 19:56:52 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: just skill, or someone with skill to do it for you
 985 2013-12-21 19:57:08 <Plarkplark_> So buying $1 cofee with btc requires you to wait?
 986 2013-12-21 19:57:09 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: 1 confirm requires skill and money/computing power, lots of it
 987 2013-12-21 19:57:40 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: no, because most people are honest enough that the % of assholes isn't a big deal
 988 2013-12-21 19:57:42 <Plarkplark_> That I understand. But a 0 confirm is easy as in " script kiddie"  easy?
 989 2013-12-21 19:57:44 Eiii has joined
 990 2013-12-21 19:57:55 <Plarkplark_> because bitpay takes 0 confirm
 991 2013-12-21 19:58:02 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: there are *unmanned* coffee shops/bakeries out there that rely 100% on the honesty of their customers and they do just fine
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 995 2013-12-21 19:59:01 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: blockchain.info had a double-spend creator page awhile back, can't find it now but yeah, it's script-kiddie easy
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 997 2013-12-21 19:59:14 <petertodd> heck, I'll show you if you want...
 998 2013-12-21 19:59:31 <Plarkplark_> Any way to fix this? Make 0 confirm at least economicly unfeasable?
 999 2013-12-21 19:59:49 <Plarkplark_> because this is solid argument against bitcoin (by haters)
1000 2013-12-21 20:00:24 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: yup, ironically by making double-spending zeroconf even easier: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251233.msg2669189#msg2669189
1001 2013-12-21 20:01:28 <Plarkplark_> Because this is one of the arguments against adoption I find hard to fight. Litecoiners tend to use it as _the_ unique selling point
1002 2013-12-21 20:01:34 <Plarkplark_> bleh
1003 2013-12-21 20:02:48 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: meh, 2.5m *average* is a long time to wait too
1004 2013-12-21 20:02:57 <Plarkplark_> So, double spending is "always"  without fee?
1005 2013-12-21 20:03:04 agnostic98 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1006 2013-12-21 20:03:05 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: and I say this as a guy who's actually fairly involved with litecoin development
1007 2013-12-21 20:03:26 <petertodd> Plarkplark_: you sound like you have some misconceptions about how bitcoin works...
1008 2013-12-21 20:03:49 <Plarkplark_> I thnk this needs to be a high priority on dev, imho. It's not a real technical problem but give somebody (as they say in my language) "A Hammer to hit with"
1009 2013-12-21 20:04:08 <petertodd> meh, we've got real technical problems to solve
1010 2013-12-21 20:04:08 <petertodd> bbl
1011 2013-12-21 20:05:22 Cryo has joined
1012 2013-12-21 20:05:22 <Plarkplark_> ok true. well :)
1013 2013-12-21 20:05:41 <Plarkplark_> thanks anyway. good info
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1025 2013-12-21 20:28:24 <CodeShark> the confirmation delay is a direct consequence of the CAP theorem
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1035 2013-12-21 20:45:10 <Hans-Martin> hi folks, does anyone know why the bitcoin-qt client does not show a menu bar in Ubuntu? This problem seems to have been fixed a while ago, but it has reappeared (don't remember with which client version)
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1037 2013-12-21 20:46:10 <kaptah> is there a chance this will get ever into a block / is it possible to make a second transaction with larger fee from one of the inputs for which I have private key (but not for all) ? https://blockchain.info/tx/0191a6651cc7ebbef04bcea6ff58844215c1a410eff8db55e40a83482f472c0f
1038 2013-12-21 20:46:31 <kaptah> s/inputs/outputs
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1050 2013-12-21 20:58:21 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: ping
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1054 2013-12-21 21:01:02 <andytoshi> kaptah: did you make that with createrawtransaction?
1055 2013-12-21 21:01:21 <andytoshi> it is nonstandard, so it might not have propagated too far .. so there are some online pushtx services you can use
1056 2013-12-21 21:01:27 uiop has joined
1057 2013-12-21 21:01:46 <andytoshi> ;;bc,blocks
1058 2013-12-21 21:01:46 <gribble> 276267
1059 2013-12-21 21:02:06 <andytoshi> kaptah: or if you /msg me the rawtx i can broadcast it for you
1060 2013-12-21 21:02:16 <kaptah> andytoshi: no, it's from "bitcoinmillions.com" to multiple recipients
1061 2013-12-21 21:02:17 <andytoshi> (your local bitcoind will reject it because it won't do double-spends)
1062 2013-12-21 21:03:01 <andytoshi> oh, i missed half your question
1063 2013-12-21 21:03:07 <andytoshi> no, you cannot change it without all the privkeys, sorry
1064 2013-12-21 21:03:18 <kaptah> andytoshi: ok thanks :/
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1066 2013-12-21 21:08:00 <andytoshi> if you just want to get your inputs out of there you can create a new transaction spending to one of your outputs
1067 2013-12-21 21:08:07 <andytoshi> which will invalidate that tx for everyone else..
1068 2013-12-21 21:10:48 niston is now known as niston`
1069 2013-12-21 21:11:06 niston` is now known as niston
1070 2013-12-21 21:11:26 niston is now known as niston`
1071 2013-12-21 21:11:31 niston` is now known as niston
1072 2013-12-21 21:11:40 <niston> there.
1073 2013-12-21 21:11:42 <niston> hi all!
1074 2013-12-21 21:12:02 <niston> is there something special with blocks 273304/273305 ?
1075 2013-12-21 21:12:30 <niston> I'm using bitcoin-tool to parse the blockchain, and I'm getting an extraneous block there
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1078 2013-12-21 21:13:53 <niston> or, at least blockexplorercom doesn't agree with what I'm parsing
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1080 2013-12-21 21:15:34 <kaptah> andytoshi: Im one of the receiving addressess so I can't re-spent the input.
1081 2013-12-21 21:16:51 Muis_ is now known as Muis
1082 2013-12-21 21:17:53 <sipa> niston: a fork?
1083 2013-12-21 21:18:12 <sipa> there can be multiple blocks with the same height, happebs all the time
1084 2013-12-21 21:18:17 <sipa> *happens
1085 2013-12-21 21:18:57 <niston> that's what I thought, and indeed there is. however, there are other forks, and bitcoin-tool doesn't produce an extra block, except @ 273304->273305
1086 2013-12-21 21:19:13 <niston> so I'm a tad bit confused.
1087 2013-12-21 21:19:58 <CodeShark> if it's any consolation, blockchain.info seems to be confused as well :)
1088 2013-12-21 21:20:03 <CodeShark> https://blockchain.info/block-height/273304
1089 2013-12-21 21:20:28 <CodeShark> or no, sorry
1090 2013-12-21 21:20:30 denom_ has joined
1091 2013-12-21 21:20:37 <CodeShark> it's two different blocks - yeah, it's a fork
1092 2013-12-21 21:21:06 <niston> how could I recognize this condition ?
1093 2013-12-21 21:21:24 <niston> here's the info I have so far: http://pastebin.com/m4jYAJEd
1094 2013-12-21 21:21:28 denom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1095 2013-12-21 21:21:43 <niston> could I use the prev. block hash to recognize the fork?
1096 2013-12-21 21:21:56 <CodeShark> yes
1097 2013-12-21 21:22:06 <niston> the later being the valid one ?
1098 2013-12-21 21:23:45 <CodeShark> looks like the former one is the main chain block
1099 2013-12-21 21:23:48 <niston> or rather, the first occurence? comparing to blockexplorer, 273304 seems the legit one, while 273305 doesn't seem to exist and 273306 is really 273305 :)
1100 2013-12-21 21:25:04 <niston> well let me try this and have a var for prev. hash, so as to ignore any second occurences
1101 2013-12-21 21:25:28 c0rw has quit (afk!~c0rw1n@97.188-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1102 2013-12-21 21:25:30 <CodeShark> yeah, the block height should be calculated as prev block height + 1
1103 2013-12-21 21:25:50 <niston> hmm.. what is this 'block height' ?
1104 2013-12-21 21:26:08 <niston> the number ?
1105 2013-12-21 21:26:21 <CodeShark> the genesis block has height 0, then all blocks afterwards in the main chain are numbered 1, 2, 3, ...
1106 2013-12-21 21:26:28 <niston> ah okay :)
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1108 2013-12-21 21:27:02 <CodeShark> if you get two blocks with the same height, you have to keep constructing on both until one chain outgrows the other (is more difficult)
1109 2013-12-21 21:27:36 <niston> how would that relate to bitcoin-qt blkXXX.dat files?
1110 2013-12-21 21:28:08 <CodeShark> generally speaking, I would avoid directly touching those files
1111 2013-12-21 21:28:35 <sipa> niston: all blocks are stored to disk, in the order thry are received
1112 2013-12-21 21:28:48 <niston> alright, so the forks are stored, too.
1113 2013-12-21 21:28:54 <sipa> just from the block dat files you cannot judge which ended up being accepted
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1115 2013-12-21 21:29:11 <CodeShark> yeah - the dead branches are never erased
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1117 2013-12-21 21:29:23 <niston> what confuses me then is that bitcoin-tool doesn't seem to produce any 'extra' blocks from earlier forks than 273304
1118 2013-12-21 21:29:40 <CodeShark> your code has to have the logic to chain them together
1119 2013-12-21 21:30:47 <CodeShark> niston, has this bitcoind instance been running for a long time? or did you just recently sync it up?
1120 2013-12-21 21:30:56 <niston> about three weeks
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1122 2013-12-21 21:32:29 <niston> hmm 273304 falls within that time frame
1123 2013-12-21 21:33:06 <niston> you mean to say it has only those forks on disk that it has 'seen live', so to speak ?
1124 2013-12-21 21:33:12 <CodeShark> yeah
1125 2013-12-21 21:33:43 <CodeShark> when it syncs, it asks other nodes only for their main chain blocks
1126 2013-12-21 21:33:50 <niston> i see
1127 2013-12-21 21:34:07 <niston> so when it gets them from the network, it has to do it's own validation
1128 2013-12-21 21:34:13 <CodeShark> indeed
1129 2013-12-21 21:34:14 <niston> but it won't erase them from the blk.dat
1130 2013-12-21 21:34:18 <CodeShark> correct
1131 2013-12-21 21:35:02 <niston> does bitcoind store validation information in some file that I could parse?
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1134 2013-12-21 21:37:05 <CodeShark> what are you trying to do?
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1136 2013-12-21 21:37:23 <niston> following the block chain, basically.
1137 2013-12-21 21:38:08 <CodeShark> then just follow all branches until one dies
1138 2013-12-21 21:38:17 <CodeShark> then continue following the live ones
1139 2013-12-21 21:39:19 <CodeShark> at each height, you might have one or more live branches - eventually, all of them will die but one
1140 2013-12-21 21:40:32 <niston> alright, that cleared up things quite a lot. thank you :)
1141 2013-12-21 21:40:44 <CodeShark> in theory, you should actually compute the total work rather than just the height to select which branches live…but in practice, I don't think there's an example where just following the height gives you the wrong answer
1142 2013-12-21 21:41:29 <niston> yes, as I understand, impossible blocks (where the proof-of-work doesn't validate) would not be distributed across the network?
1143 2013-12-21 21:42:02 <CodeShark> you could have two chains where one has greater height but the other is more difficult (at least in principle)
1144 2013-12-21 21:42:18 <CodeShark> this would be due to different retargetting in each
1145 2013-12-21 21:42:35 <niston> ah I see. such as an attacker tries to insert blocks made with a lower difficultiy?
1146 2013-12-21 21:42:43 <CodeShark> right
1147 2013-12-21 21:43:23 <CodeShark> but that could only happen if an attacker managed to convince you to retarget higher than the actual main chain
1148 2013-12-21 21:43:44 <niston> retargeting means?
1149 2013-12-21 21:44:00 <CodeShark> changing the block difficulty (which happens every 2016 blocks)
1150 2013-12-21 21:44:06 <niston> ah
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1152 2013-12-21 21:44:17 <niston> so that's theoretical cause that wouldnt exactly benefit an attacker then
1153 2013-12-21 21:44:32 <CodeShark> in practice it's difficult to exploit
1154 2013-12-21 21:44:52 <niston> she could only insert blocks with a difficulty higher than main
1155 2013-12-21 21:45:07 <niston> which is, well, probably not what she wants :)
1156 2013-12-21 21:46:15 <CodeShark> well, if an attacker deprives you from knowing about blocks that have already been mined and only feeds you his/her blocks at a much slower rate, at the next multiple of 2016 blocks your node will think the difficulty is lower than it really is
1157 2013-12-21 21:46:42 <niston> but that's almost impossible if I keep more than one connection to the network, right ?
1158 2013-12-21 21:47:04 <CodeShark> yeah, connecting to multiple nodes helps mitigate this risk
1159 2013-12-21 21:47:12 <niston> since the other linked nodes would inform me about the block being mined
1160 2013-12-21 21:47:26 <CodeShark> correct
1161 2013-12-21 21:47:59 <CodeShark> an attack is still possible in principle when nearing a multiple of 2016
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1163 2013-12-21 21:48:24 <niston> how so ?
1164 2013-12-21 21:49:08 <CodeShark> the attacker can move the timestamp forward up to a couple hours
1165 2013-12-21 21:50:23 <CodeShark> the new target is computed from the difference in timestamp between the first and last blocks of each 2016 batch
1166 2013-12-21 21:50:42 <niston> ah
1167 2013-12-21 21:51:00 <niston> so a wrong difficulty would be computed
1168 2013-12-21 21:51:31 <niston> lower than it actually is, because the timespan would seem longer
1169 2013-12-21 21:51:57 <CodeShark> right - however, two hours out of two weeks is not a whole lot of difference
1170 2013-12-21 21:52:17 <niston> true, even more so as difficulty continues to rise to soaring heights
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1172 2013-12-21 21:52:47 <niston> well at least there's something going "to da moon", hehe
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1174 2013-12-21 21:59:59 <niston> I'll be off to code some more, thanks for the little discussion and info, CodeShark!
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1177 2013-12-21 22:00:47 <CodeShark> cheers :)
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1180 2013-12-21 22:04:31 <Intelftw> Hello, I'm trying to understand stratum protocol from http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stratum-mining and I don't get how merkle root is generated. There is python snippet that shows how to generate merkle tree but it's not a tree it just hashes each branch with previous one. Can somebody explain me this?
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1186 2013-12-21 22:10:55 <keyboard> It can be a tree where branches are one short
1187 2013-12-21 22:12:03 <sipa> Intelftw: that's a merkle tree
1188 2013-12-21 22:12:10 patcon has joined
1189 2013-12-21 22:12:17 <sipa> Intelftw: every node is the hash of two nodes at the previous level together
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1192 2013-12-21 22:12:42 <sipa> ah, i get it
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1195 2013-12-21 22:12:54 <sipa> so, assume you have a block with 7 transactions
1196 2013-12-21 22:12:58 <sipa> you have to add the coinbase
1197 2013-12-21 22:13:13 <sipa> so you have transactions C, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5, T6, T7
1198 2013-12-21 22:13:26 <sipa> the T's are determined by the pool, C comes from you
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1200 2013-12-21 22:13:55 <sipa> the second level of the tree would be H(C,T1), H(T2,T3), H(T4,T5), H(T6,T7)
1201 2013-12-21 22:13:58 <sipa> Intelftw: agree?
1202 2013-12-21 22:14:05 <Intelftw> ye
1203 2013-12-21 22:14:09 sassamo has joined
1204 2013-12-21 22:15:04 <sipa> let's call H(T2,T3) = T23, ... ok?
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1206 2013-12-21 22:15:36 <sipa> so the level above that would be H(H(C,T1),T23), T4567
1207 2013-12-21 22:15:52 <sipa> and the level above that is H(H(H(C,T1),T23),T4567)
1208 2013-12-21 22:15:57 jacob___ has joined
1209 2013-12-21 22:16:13 <sipa> so the pool sends you T1, T23 and T4567 precomputed
1210 2013-12-21 22:16:28 <sipa> and you only have the recompute the leftmost branch of the tree, as only C changes
1211 2013-12-21 22:16:35 <jacob___> HI, there are to nets "bitcoin" and "testnet3"
1212 2013-12-21 22:16:41 <Intelftw> ah i c
1213 2013-12-21 22:16:41 <sipa> jacob___: correct
1214 2013-12-21 22:16:50 <sipa> jacob___: the first one is often called mainnet or realnet
1215 2013-12-21 22:16:57 <Intelftw> I though pool sends t1 t2 t3 etc
1216 2013-12-21 22:17:01 <Intelftw> thanks
1217 2013-12-21 22:17:06 <jacob___> what does the hash '\xf9','\xbe','\xb4','\xd9' mean?
1218 2013-12-21 22:17:19 <sipa> that's not a hash, it's a list of bytes
1219 2013-12-21 22:17:21 <jacob___> I am looking at jgarzik code "picocoin"
1220 2013-12-21 22:17:30 <sipa> and it's the magic network identifier
1221 2013-12-21 22:17:37 <jacob___> the not nets have "netmagics"?
1222 2013-12-21 22:17:39 <sipa> it's prefixed to all network packets
1223 2013-12-21 22:17:45 <sipa> not nets?
1224 2013-12-21 22:18:05 <jacob___> ooops typo
1225 2013-12-21 22:18:20 <jacob___> delete "not"
1226 2013-12-21 22:18:31 <sipa> every network has its own magic
1227 2013-12-21 22:18:52 <sipa> it's to prevent accidentally wrong connections to be incorrectly interpreted
1228 2013-12-21 22:19:01 <jacob___> excellent
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1230 2013-12-21 22:19:56 <Intelftw> sipa: What if I have 9 transactions? Then I treat T10-T16 as T9 ?
1231 2013-12-21 22:20:08 <sipa> Intelftw: draw it
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1243 2013-12-21 22:26:31 <phantomcircuit> sipa, oh if only they really all had their own magic...
1244 2013-12-21 22:26:52 <sipa> phantomcircuit: both _bitcoin_ networks do :)
1245 2013-12-21 22:27:29 <phantomcircuit> there's at least one altcoin that's using the mainnet magic value
1246 2013-12-21 22:27:58 <sipa> i had an altcoin author contact me once, because they cloned another altcoin without changing magic and p2p port
1247 2013-12-21 22:28:13 <sipa> and there chains tried to compete/overwrite eachother
1248 2013-12-21 22:28:14 <sipa> epic fun
1249 2013-12-21 22:28:21 <sipa> their
1250 2013-12-21 22:29:29 erans has joined
1251 2013-12-21 22:29:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
1252 2013-12-21 22:31:52 <nsh> oh, that would be an interesting experiment...
1253 2013-12-21 22:32:50 <nsh> some kinda blockchain analogue of corewars with mutating various protocol/parameters of a simplified bitcoind to see which version can overwrite the most of the others
1254 2013-12-21 22:33:14 <Intelftw> sipa, one thing is still not clear for me. If I have 5 transactions (C is T1) according to bitcoin wiki I have to add T6=T5 to make it even. So then right branch is H(H(T5 + T6) + H(T6 + T6)) or H(H(T5 + T6) + H(T6)) ?
1255 2013-12-21 22:33:18 <Intelftw> sorry for dumb questions
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1259 2013-12-21 22:39:17 Synthetisoft has joined
1260 2013-12-21 22:39:17 <sipa> Intelftw: lowest branch is t1,t2,t3,t4,t5
1261 2013-12-21 22:39:31 <sipa> level above is t12, t34, t55
1262 2013-12-21 22:39:48 <sipa> level above that is t1234, t5555
1263 2013-12-21 22:39:56 <Synthetisoft> I'm looking to hire developers (Javascript & Desktop Devs) for a project. PM me if interested. I am funded.
1264 2013-12-21 22:39:56 orperelman has joined
1265 2013-12-21 22:39:57 <sipa> level above that is t123455555
1266 2013-12-21 22:40:16 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1267 2013-12-21 22:40:27 <sipa> if it's 6
1268 2013-12-21 22:40:40 B has quit (aster!Blaster@unaffiliated/blaster|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1269 2013-12-21 22:40:50 <Intelftw> I get it now, thanks
1270 2013-12-21 22:40:56 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what are your thoughts on some kind of RII where the subkey id is determined by height rather than iteration?
1271 2013-12-21 22:41:07 <Luke-Jr> sipa: for stateless mining stuff :P
1272 2013-12-21 22:41:25 <Synthetisoft> We pay good at our company and can provide proof. We are just having a had time finding bitcoin devs
1273 2013-12-21 22:41:58 <jacob___> Synthetisoft:  work remotely?
1274 2013-12-21 22:42:03 <Synthetisoft> yes
1275 2013-12-21 22:42:03 <Luke-Jr> Synthetisoft: because everyone with a clue is busy ;)
1276 2013-12-21 22:42:04 roconnor has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1277 2013-12-21 22:42:18 <Synthetisoft> We do our hiring through Odesk
1278 2013-12-21 22:42:21 <sipa> Synthetisoft: no offence, but now you sound like http://xkcd.com/1293/ :)
1279 2013-12-21 22:42:52 <sipa> (not commenting on whether you're trustworthy or not, just reminding me of it)
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1281 2013-12-21 22:43:28 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i don't see a problem with designating a branch somewhere for that
1282 2013-12-21 22:43:51 <sipa> Luke-Jr: the whole specific-tree-structures-for-more-than-just-sequential-keys is very blurry
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1287 2013-12-21 22:45:32 <sipa> on the other hand, forcing every wallet to support every exoting derivation structure people come up with...
1288 2013-12-21 22:46:20 Kozuch_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1289 2013-12-21 22:46:22 <sipa> s/exoting/exotic/
1290 2013-12-21 22:47:04 jdnavarro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1291 2013-12-21 22:48:04 <Luke-Jr> is it so exotic? :P
1292 2013-12-21 22:48:15 <Synthetisoft> Look up apphoney on Odesk. I've spent well over 100k there in the past few month
1293 2013-12-21 22:48:20 <nsh> sipa, just let the wallet dynamically include some remote code for key derivation that's hosted on whatever random website. it'll be fine...
1294 2013-12-21 22:48:59 <sipa> Synthetisoft: i'm not sure whether here is the right place to look for people... most seem to know pretty well what to work on already (but i may be wrong, of course)
1295 2013-12-21 22:49:27 <nsh> Synthetisoft, boy was that an unfortunate choice of monikor... trust me, i'm a-phoney...
1296 2013-12-21 22:50:56 orperelman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1297 2013-12-21 22:51:51 <nsh> (:-)
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1313 2013-12-21 23:09:25 <niston> mmh.. coffe-and-cuban-cigar break. yay!
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1318 2013-12-21 23:15:59 ahmedbodi is now known as ahmedbodzafk
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1320 2013-12-21 23:21:44 wyager has joined
1321 2013-12-21 23:22:02 <wyager> Are the forums broken?
1322 2013-12-21 23:22:15 <wyager> I can't seem to reply to a post
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1324 2013-12-21 23:22:37 dvide has quit ()
1325 2013-12-21 23:23:02 <nsh> s/broken/fixed/
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1327 2013-12-21 23:23:32 <wyager> As of the last 5 seconds?
1328 2013-12-21 23:26:13 zcopley_ has joined
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1330 2013-12-21 23:32:12 <nsh> wyager, no, i was making a silly joke :)
1331 2013-12-21 23:32:21 <wyager> Oh hahaha
1332 2013-12-21 23:32:31 <wyager> :p
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1335 2013-12-21 23:33:13 <wyager> gmaxwell: If you're interested, I wrote an implementation of the draft BIP for encrypted HD wallets
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1337 2013-12-21 23:33:39 <wyager> With date support :p
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