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  35 2014-01-01 01:16:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: mpir?
  36 2014-01-01 01:18:48 <gmaxwell> http://www.mpir.org/
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  92 2014-01-01 02:20:15 <BlueMatt> maaku: michagogo|cloud if either of you can write a python program to remove the sig (there is a library for handling the sigs somewhere on google code), I'll be incredibly happy and so will devrandom
  93 2014-01-01 02:20:31 <BlueMatt> (and you'd make it possible for bitcoin to check signatures while downloading updates again)
  94 2014-01-01 02:21:07 <BlueMatt> hell, maybe I'd even post a bounty for it
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  97 2014-01-01 02:24:11 <andytoshi> BlueMatt: do you mean just bluntly zero out a scriptsig? my coinjoin tool does that as a side effect :)
  98 2014-01-01 02:25:58 <BlueMatt> andytoshi: no, authenticode
  99 2014-01-01 02:26:33 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: so the determinstic build validation stuff works with signed binaries.
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 120 2014-01-01 02:55:13 <jspilman> BlueMatt: does this have what you're looking for?
 121 2014-01-01 02:55:17 <jspilman> http://hype-free.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-verify-executable-digital.html
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 123 2014-01-01 02:57:44 <BlueMatt> jspilman: no, I want someone to implement it in gitian-downloader for me...
 124 2014-01-01 02:57:49 <BlueMatt> but that looks about-right
 125 2014-01-01 02:57:58 <BlueMatt> ofc I dont want to actually verify them, just remove them
 126 2014-01-01 02:59:19 handle has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 127 2014-01-01 03:01:31 <jspilman> yeah, I assume whatever blog is being hashed to generate the hash is the actual data you want to strip out
 128 2014-01-01 03:01:46 <jspilman> ehh, too much wine with dinner. you know what I mean
 129 2014-01-01 03:01:48 <BlueMatt> yep, sounds right
 130 2014-01-01 03:01:56 <BlueMatt> yea
 131 2014-01-01 03:03:28 <sipa> greetings from the year two thousand and fourteen
 132 2014-01-01 03:04:38 <BlueMatt> oooo, sipa's in the fuuuture
 133 2014-01-01 03:04:44 <BlueMatt> / Came in a flying delorian
 134 2014-01-01 03:05:05 * BlueMatt was reading addrman recently
 135 2014-01-01 03:06:52 <sipa> well THAT one came from 2015
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 137 2014-01-01 03:07:11 <BlueMatt> heh
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 144 2014-01-01 03:17:02 <jspilman> here you go BlueMatt: http://blog.didierstevens.com/programs/disitool/  (disitool.py delete signed-file unsigned-file)
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 146 2014-01-01 03:19:36 <jspilman> I need to get some gitian sources to be sure the result matches, but that should do it. I don't see any license terms on that code
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 151 2014-01-01 03:30:23 <maaku> jspilman: i'd actually test it
 152 2014-01-01 03:30:41 <maaku> there's a good chance it doesn't end up with the same bit-for-bit binary...
 153 2014-01-01 03:42:03 <jspilman> yeah, it did remove the sig but hash still doesn't match. I don't have the actual gitian built bitcoin-0.8.6-win32-setup.exe that gives sha256sum 49547ff... so I'm not sure what else may be off. anyone have a link to the gitian build output?
 154 2014-01-01 03:42:18 <BlueMatt> jspilman: heh, awesome...
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 156 2014-01-01 03:42:43 <BlueMatt> jspilman: I dont have the link anywhere...
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 158 2014-01-01 03:50:42 <maaku> jspilman: good odds are that it simply zerod out the authenticode field
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 170 2014-01-01 04:10:35 <jspilman> maaku: file size went from 11,687,960 to 11,682,816 (-5144)
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 220 2014-01-01 05:31:08 <jaakkos> is the rpc between 2 bitcoinds encrypted?
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 222 2014-01-01 05:34:32 <BlueMatt> no
 223 2014-01-01 05:34:41 <BlueMatt> well, its optional, or it used to be...not sure if you can still
 224 2014-01-01 05:38:21 <Luke-Jr> err
 225 2014-01-01 05:38:31 <Luke-Jr> bitcoinds never communicate using RPC..
 226 2014-01-01 05:38:37 <Luke-Jr> with each other*
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 229 2014-01-01 05:42:03 <wallet42> where is the magic number?
 230 2014-01-01 05:42:22 <wallet42> btw happy new year!
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 276 2014-01-01 07:12:59 <sida> ping
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 280 2014-01-01 07:14:36 <sida> I got a question regarding block height
 281 2014-01-01 07:14:51 <sida> Just wanted to confirm that there is only one block at any given height
 282 2014-01-01 07:14:54 <sida> at the main chain?
 283 2014-01-01 07:15:17 <sida> As a context, I am currently using bitcoin abe and I am using multiple blocks at the same height
 284 2014-01-01 07:17:25 <gmaxwell> There will eventually be only one block at each height in the longest chain. But there may be many blocks at a height when not considering the chain, or many blocks at the tip of the longest chain.
 285 2014-01-01 07:18:58 penumbra has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 286 2014-01-01 07:19:47 <sida> Ok Got it. So if just to double check. If I want to get the unspents for a particular address. I should look for outputs from blocks that are in the longest chain only?
 287 2014-01-01 07:20:11 <sida> Otherwise, I might be getting outputs from a side chain. (which might have been abandoned eventually)
 288 2014-01-01 07:21:31 CheckDavid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 289 2014-01-01 07:23:47 <gmaxwell> right. do take care, its easy to make mistakes of understanding in this stuff (or suffer from bugs in abe), so if you're doing something which could result in money loss, be really cautious
 290 2014-01-01 07:25:24 <sida> Thanks Greg!! :)
 291 2014-01-01 07:26:37 <sida> Out of curiosity, I am building an a small API with ABE (for accessing blockchain data). I don't see an alternative apart from using something like ABE so that I have structured data to query
 292 2014-01-01 07:26:46 <sida> Would I be correct to say that?
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 621 2014-01-01 17:56:07 <wallet42> whats the magic number?
 622 2014-01-01 17:56:12 <wallet42> for bitcoin?
 623 2014-01-01 17:56:25 <Joric> 42?
 624 2014-01-01 17:57:23 <sipa> the network magic is 0xf9 0xbe 0xb4 0xd9
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 633 2014-01-01 18:14:23 <wallet42> thx sipa
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 646 2014-01-01 18:32:04 <maraoz> what do you think about making the protocol require all transactions to be signed by both the sender and the receiver of coins? (not saying this should be part of bitcoin, just want to discuss the idea)
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 649 2014-01-01 18:33:05 <tholenst> What would be an advantage of that?
 650 2014-01-01 18:33:26 <sipa> it would mean you can refuse transactions
 651 2014-01-01 18:36:02 kenansulayman is now known as kenan|afk
 652 2014-01-01 18:36:18 <tholenst> i see, yeah that might be nice. On the other hand, you need to keep watching if someone wants to give you BTC, so you can sign, even if you never want to refuse transactions
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 660 2014-01-01 18:37:59 <Luke-Jr> it might be doable already, to an extent.
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 662 2014-01-01 18:38:10 <sipa> presumably you could make the receive signature in advance
 663 2014-01-01 18:38:16 <Luke-Jr> and then only users who want the ability to reject transactions would use it
 664 2014-01-01 18:38:16 <sipa> in effect, it would be a payment request
 665 2014-01-01 18:38:31 <maraoz> It would also mean you couldn't have "black hole" addresses like https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE
 666 2014-01-01 18:39:10 <Luke-Jr> maraoz: I don't think anyone is going to break backward compatibility ;)
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 668 2014-01-01 18:39:43 <maraoz> I know, I know. I don't want to change bitcoin anyway :P
 669 2014-01-01 18:39:54 <maraoz> Do you think this could be added as an optional feature?
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 674 2014-01-01 18:41:26 <maraoz> Luke-Jr: or can you do it right now with MULTISIG? I don't think so
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 679 2014-01-01 18:45:20 <Luke-Jr> maraoz: I think you can.
 680 2014-01-01 18:45:38 <Luke-Jr> well, not multisig perhaps, but P2SH
 681 2014-01-01 18:46:05 <Luke-Jr> but still, I'm not sure there's a use case
 682 2014-01-01 18:46:12 <Luke-Jr> if you don't want someone to pay you, don't give them an address
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 684 2014-01-01 18:47:29 <Luke-Jr> and you're under no obligation to accept a 2nd payment to the same address, so it's not like someone can reuse an old one implicitly
 685 2014-01-01 18:47:38 <sipa> well, sure they can
 686 2014-01-01 18:47:47 <sipa> you're not forced to use that output
 687 2014-01-01 18:47:49 <maraoz> Luke-Jr: right, P2SH might do it. But yeah, it might not be very useful.
 688 2014-01-01 18:47:58 <Luke-Jr> sipa: they could, but they've got no legal standing to claim they paid you
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 690 2014-01-01 18:48:08 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i hope so
 691 2014-01-01 18:48:17 <Luke-Jr> you may have deleted the ECDSA private key to redeem it
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 693 2014-01-01 18:48:26 <Luke-Jr> there's no reasonable expectation for you to retain it
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 697 2014-01-01 18:50:14 <jakov> maybe a charity wants to accept btc but doesnt want darknet drug dealers donating, so they demand ID before they sign your tx
 698 2014-01-01 18:50:26 <jakov> drug recovery charity perhaps
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 704 2014-01-01 18:54:39 <Luke-Jr> jakov: they demand ID before they give you an address..
 705 2014-01-01 18:54:58 <jakov> but then you could share that address
 706 2014-01-01 18:55:46 <Luke-Jr> jakov: and be liable for whatever is sent to it
 707 2014-01-01 18:55:58 <Luke-Jr> jakov: keep in mind addresses are only for a single transaction
 708 2014-01-01 18:56:01 <sipa> which, at best is more money for them - and at worst is money sent into a black hole
 709 2014-01-01 18:56:40 <jakov> Luke-Jr although address reuse is discouraged its still possible
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 711 2014-01-01 18:57:09 <Luke-Jr> jakov: possible, but unless the party giving you the address says it's safe, you cannot assume they will receive the funds
 712 2014-01-01 18:57:13 <phantomcircuit> jakov, shh if we tell people they're one time use maybe people will stop reusing them
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 888 2014-01-01 21:25:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|04:16:09 <BlueMatt> maaku: michagogo|cloud if either of you can write a python program to remove the sig (there is a library for handling the sigs somewhere on google code), I'll be incredibly happy and so will devrandom
 889 2014-01-01 21:25:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|/me doesn't know python
 890 2014-01-01 21:26:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...
 891 2014-01-01 21:26:20 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|doesn't know python
 892 2014-01-01 21:27:11 <andytoshi> new article by esr on C structure packing: http://www.catb.org/esr/structure-packing/
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 897 2014-01-01 21:38:10 <robonerd> nice
 898 2014-01-01 21:38:15 <robonerd> thanks for the share andytoshi
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 927 2014-01-01 22:03:27 <andytoshi> so, he talks about local variable ordering for a bit, which (i think) compilers do automatically these days
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 929 2014-01-01 22:04:29 <andytoshi> but the structure packing stuff is true today with gcc and clang, even with -O3 or -Os,
 930 2014-01-01 22:05:05 <andytoshi> aside from address-of-struct must be equal to address-of-first-member, i thought the compilers were allowed to reorder things
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 944 2014-01-01 22:12:13 <kristina> Is BTC designed for being able to lookup data within the blockchain (ie. find all blocks that push a certain string onto the stack)?
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 946 2014-01-01 22:13:00 <BlueMatt> no, in fact its quite terrible for such applications
 947 2014-01-01 22:13:25 <qwertyoruiop> ah, interesting
 948 2014-01-01 22:14:14 <sipa> it's not even designed to _have_ the blockchain available at all times
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 971 2014-01-01 22:46:59 <Luke-Jr> Can anyone remove Gavin's git access until we confirm he GitHub account isn't compromised?
 972 2014-01-01 22:47:02 <Luke-Jr> his*
 973 2014-01-01 22:47:20 <Luke-Jr> ref https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/290
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 975 2014-01-01 22:48:07 <saivann> This isn't the usual Gavin GitHub account, this one is gavinandresen (with a typo in the lastname)
 976 2014-01-01 22:48:14 <qwertyoruiop> Luke-Jr: are you for real
 977 2014-01-01 22:48:15 <saivann> andersen*
 978 2014-01-01 22:48:19 <qwertyoruiop> Joined on Jan 01, 2014
 979 2014-01-01 22:48:59 <Apocalyptic> rofl Luke-Jr
 980 2014-01-01 22:49:02 <Luke-Jr> saivann: good catch
 981 2014-01-01 22:49:10 <Luke-Jr> I only noticed the PGP key was odd
 982 2014-01-01 22:49:39 <saivann> Luke-Jr, I'm glad someone actually tried it :)
 983 2014-01-01 22:49:48 <sipa> nice catch!
 984 2014-01-01 22:50:35 <Luke-Jr> additionally, I'd hope Gavin's new key would be longer than the old one :P
 985 2014-01-01 22:51:05 <Luke-Jr> I reported the user
 986 2014-01-01 22:51:16 toffoo has quit ()
 987 2014-01-01 22:51:44 <Luke-Jr> curiously, the key signing this one shared a few common characters with the real one..
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 989 2014-01-01 22:51:56 <Luke-Jr> vanitygen for PGP seems to be real
 990 2014-01-01 22:53:05 <qwertyoruiop> .. wasn't it obvious
 991 2014-01-01 22:53:06 <qwertyoruiop> Joined on Jan 01, 2014
 992 2014-01-01 22:53:11 <saivann> Luke-Jr : I didn't even get to that point, that's interesting
 993 2014-01-01 22:53:40 <Luke-Jr> qwertyoruiop: that's only visible if you go to the user page, whcih I saw no reason to do
 994 2014-01-01 22:53:57 <qwertyoruiop> well, that'd be the first thing someone should do
 995 2014-01-01 22:53:58 <qwertyoruiop> :)
 996 2014-01-01 22:54:04 <qwertyoruiop> in my opinion
 997 2014-01-01 22:55:02 <Zoop_> http://blog.0xbadc0de.be/archives/155
 998 2014-01-01 22:55:10 <Zoop_> an interesting PoC
 999 2014-01-01 22:55:32 <sipa> worth a read, indeed
1000 2014-01-01 22:55:51 <qwertyoruiop> indeed, Zoop_- makes people actually realize how serious the DEDRBG issue is
1001 2014-01-01 22:56:18 <sipa> hindsight is 20/20, of course, but this should have been so plain obvious...
1002 2014-01-01 22:56:20 <qwertyoruiop> i'm sure many people thought it was a "theoretical" attack
1003 2014-01-01 22:56:40 <qwertyoruiop> i'm surprised by NSA's blatant fail
1004 2014-01-01 22:56:54 <qwertyoruiop> i mean, of all the backdoors they chose a shitty DRBG.
1005 2014-01-01 22:57:04 <sipa> but this one is perfect
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1008 2014-01-01 22:58:07 <sipa> it recovers the entire state in 32 bytes of output
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1010 2014-01-01 22:58:53 <gmaxwell> saivann: I spent a good 30 seconds staring at the name trying to see the typo.
1011 2014-01-01 22:58:54 <sipa> and apart from the single incorrect assumption (nobody has the factor between those hardcoded points), it probably is actually very secure
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1013 2014-01-01 22:59:26 <gmaxwell> perhaps, though quite slow regardless.
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1017 2014-01-01 23:00:06 <sipa> yeah, it's unnecessarily slow, but i guess it may be possible to prove its security properties assuming ecdlp is hard
1018 2014-01-01 23:00:18 <sipa> (^- wild guess)
1019 2014-01-01 23:00:30 <qwertyoruiop> in any case
1020 2014-01-01 23:00:34 <qwertyoruiop> it's a shitty DRBG
1021 2014-01-01 23:00:45 <qwertyoruiop> noone would have used it since day 1
1022 2014-01-01 23:01:00 <qwertyoruiop> apart from RSA and all the people working there
1023 2014-01-01 23:01:12 <qwertyoruiop> they TOTALLY didn't see that coming, while the rest of the world did
1024 2014-01-01 23:01:21 <sipa> we did?
1025 2014-01-01 23:01:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: perhaps not, if you look at the history of provable hash functions, they've actually had a surprisingly hard time. (and I think a hash function is strictly easier than a DRBG)
1026 2014-01-01 23:01:36 <qwertyoruiop> i mean, in 2007 we did
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1028 2014-01-01 23:02:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm very likely not using the right terminology
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1030 2014-01-01 23:03:23 <gmaxwell> Certantly it could enable some statements about the hardness.
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1055 2014-01-01 23:45:43 <berndj> great, so 2014-01-01 "gavin" has signed real gavin's key (29D9EE6B1FC730C1, right?) to trip people up
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