1 2014-01-03 00:00:57 <nightlingo> wow that's exactly what I was looking for ! thanks a lot guys :)
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   3 2014-01-03 00:01:05 <phantomcircuit> sipa, listtransactions doesn't seem to get slower for a fixed number of transactions regardless of how many total tx's there are in a wallet
   4 2014-01-03 00:01:28 <phantomcircuit> so personally i much prefer just polling with a reasonably large number
   5 2014-01-03 00:02:04 <phantomcircuit> but all of this is not on topic here
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   9 2014-01-03 00:06:39 <nightlingo> phantomcircuit: I was checking the code you sent me. there, the last 1000 transactions are fetched each time (using listtransactions). Do you think there is a chance that too many transactions occur before the next cycle ? that would cause it to miss some transactions
  10 2014-01-03 00:07:04 <phantomcircuit> nightlingo, if you get > 1000 actions per second then yeah it's an issue
  11 2014-01-03 00:07:07 <phantomcircuit> but uh
  12 2014-01-03 00:07:11 <phantomcircuit> yeah right
  13 2014-01-03 00:07:17 <sipa> bitcoin doesn't do more than 7 per second anyway
  14 2014-01-03 00:08:05 <nightlingo> listtransactions lists transactions relevant only to addresses contained to the bitcoind wallet?
  15 2014-01-03 00:08:23 <phantomcircuit> yeah
  16 2014-01-03 00:08:24 <sipa> yes
  17 2014-01-03 00:08:27 <nightlingo> oh cool
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  39 2014-01-03 00:32:33 <zapsoda> Is their a way to trigger wallet notify after a certain number of confirms? I got it to trigger a php file which increments the total recieved in the database (For the order with a matching input address) but because that file is triggered when the transaction is first added (i think) coins dont have to be confirmed before they are added to the database
  40 2014-01-03 00:32:50 <sipa> no
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  42 2014-01-03 00:33:01 <zapsoda> Damn
  43 2014-01-03 00:33:06 <sipa> it notifies when a transaction is first seen, and when it first confirms
  44 2014-01-03 00:33:10 <sipa> (which may coincide)
  45 2014-01-03 00:33:54 <nightlingo> is there a way to know which address sent coins to an address that belongs to my wallet ?
  46 2014-01-03 00:34:18 <sipa> bitcoin transactions do not have a 'from' address
  47 2014-01-03 00:34:20 <CodeShark> nightlingo: that information is not generally useful
  48 2014-01-03 00:34:35 <nightlingo> aaah ok thanks
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  50 2014-01-03 00:35:01 <sipa> if you need to distinguish multiple senders, give them a different payment address
  51 2014-01-03 00:35:03 <zapsoda> So incrementing the database value for recieved (by the amount sent in the transaction) wont help since its going to trigger the script twice somtimes?
  52 2014-01-03 00:35:14 <sipa> yes, you need to actually check
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  54 2014-01-03 00:36:56 <nightlingo> I was just trying to see how exchanges, wallets, and gambling games manage their deposits system. I thought the simplest solution would be: 1. create a temporary address and give it to the user. 2. the user deposits to that address. 3. the coins are transfered from that address to a central address where all the coins reside. But this would produce many transaction fees
  55 2014-01-03 00:37:26 <CodeShark> nightlingo: step 3 is unnecessary
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  57 2014-01-03 00:37:41 <nightlingo> CodeShark: it would mean easier management
  58 2014-01-03 00:37:43 <CodeShark> step 3 would be done in batch, if anything
  59 2014-01-03 00:37:56 <CodeShark> you wouldn't create a separate transaction for each transfer
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  61 2014-01-03 00:38:02 <CodeShark> you'd send multiple at once
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  63 2014-01-03 00:38:15 <sipa> nightlingo: why would it be easier to manage?
  64 2014-01-03 00:38:23 <sipa> it's maybe easier for you to think about now
  65 2014-01-03 00:38:25 <CodeShark> and storing all your coins at a single address makes it easier for others to know how much you have
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  67 2014-01-03 00:38:36 <CodeShark> so if you care about your own privacy, you might not want to do that
  68 2014-01-03 00:38:46 <sipa> but if you abstract from the idea that addresses hold balances, and accept that coins are held jointly by everything in the wallet, there is no problem
  69 2014-01-03 00:38:48 <nightlingo> sipa: because instead of keeping track of all the possible temporary addresses per user, you only keep a deposit number per user
  70 2014-01-03 00:39:05 <sipa> nightlingo: and why requires that moving the coins?
  71 2014-01-03 00:39:05 <CodeShark> all addresses in bitcoin, in principle, are temporary
  72 2014-01-03 00:39:12 <sipa> yes, you'll have a counter per user
  73 2014-01-03 00:39:33 <sipa> but it can be completely independent from which address the coins are assigned to
  74 2014-01-03 00:39:41 <sipa> you just know that the sum is always right
  75 2014-01-03 00:40:05 <sipa> stop thinking of addresses as things that hold a balance
  76 2014-01-03 00:40:12 <sipa> just see the wallet as a bunch of coins
  77 2014-01-03 00:40:33 <nightlingo> sipa: hmmm
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  79 2014-01-03 00:40:48 <nightlingo> sipa: yeah that makes sense :)
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  81 2014-01-03 00:41:03 <sipa> you count everything that enters the wallet (=confirms) and count everything that leaves (transactions you create)
  82 2014-01-03 00:41:13 <sipa> the sum is how much you have available
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  85 2014-01-03 00:41:19 <sipa> keep that sum now per-user, and you're done
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  87 2014-01-03 00:41:42 <nightlingo> sipa: and I don't even need accounts for that right?
  88 2014-01-03 00:41:55 <sipa> ironically, that's exactly what accounts do
  89 2014-01-03 00:42:03 <sipa> but you can implement it better yourself
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  91 2014-01-03 00:42:09 <sipa> bitcoind is just not the right place for it
  92 2014-01-03 00:42:15 <CodeShark> but don't use the built-in account system in bitcoind!
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  94 2014-01-03 00:42:25 <CodeShark> it's not the right place for it at all
  95 2014-01-03 00:42:31 <nightlingo> CodeShark: o yes I've heard bad things about it :)
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  97 2014-01-03 00:42:44 <CodeShark> later on you want to change wallets, you're screwed
  98 2014-01-03 00:42:46 <nightlingo> sipa: and I should use getnewaddress for creating those temporary deposit addresses ?
  99 2014-01-03 00:42:51 <sipa> yes
 100 2014-01-03 00:43:00 <PRab> Is the built-in account system so bad that it should be considered depreciated?
 101 2014-01-03 00:43:01 <sipa> well, if you want to use bitcoind's wallet
 102 2014-01-03 00:43:11 <sipa> PRab: i think many still rely on it, actually
 103 2014-01-03 00:43:18 <sipa> but i wouldn't encourage using it
 104 2014-01-03 00:43:24 <nightlingo> CodeShark: that, and also, they are very slow when the number of transactions X number of accounts increases beyond the thousands
 105 2014-01-03 00:43:38 <sipa> nightlingo: that's absolutely irrelevant
 106 2014-01-03 00:43:47 <sipa> oh,
 107 2014-01-03 00:43:50 <sipa> sorry, i misread!
 108 2014-01-03 00:44:09 <sipa> all that matters is the number of transactions
 109 2014-01-03 00:44:14 <CodeShark> well, the bitcoind wallet generally is not super scalable,,,
 110 2014-01-03 00:44:15 <gribble> Error: "," is not a valid command.
 111 2014-01-03 00:44:20 <CodeShark> well, the bitcoind wallet generally is not super scalable...
 112 2014-01-03 00:44:28 <nightlingo> sipa: so bitcoind is good enough for a scalable system as long as we don't use their accounts system?
 113 2014-01-03 00:44:30 <CodeShark> sorry, gribble,
 114 2014-01-03 00:44:34 <CodeShark> ,,
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 116 2014-01-03 00:44:36 <sipa> nightlingo: accounts are irrelevant
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 119 2014-01-03 00:44:42 <sipa> the number of transactions is all that counts
 120 2014-01-03 00:44:59 <nightlingo> sipa: so if we have lots of transactions it will still become slow ?
 121 2014-01-03 00:45:03 <sipa> the reason for not using accounts has nothing to do with performance
 122 2014-01-03 00:45:06 <sipa> yes
 123 2014-01-03 00:45:15 <nightlingo> duck...
 124 2014-01-03 00:45:27 <CodeShark> goose
 125 2014-01-03 00:45:29 <sipa> do you really expect to hit 100k transactions soon? :)
 126 2014-01-03 00:46:02 <nightlingo> sipa:  well not so soon to be honest :)
 127 2014-01-03 00:47:07 <nightlingo> sipa: so, you think those exchanges don't use bitcoind at all ?
 128 2014-01-03 00:47:26 <sipa> mtgox doesn't, they have their own wallet implementation
 129 2014-01-03 00:47:33 <sipa> unsure about others
 130 2014-01-03 00:48:34 <nightlingo> sipa: I guess the time-consuming operation for bitcoind would be the "getbalance" operation right?
 131 2014-01-03 00:49:03 <nightlingo> sipa: "listtransactions" should be fast enough... ?
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 135 2014-01-03 00:49:14 <sipa> they're both exactly the same speed
 136 2014-01-03 00:49:25 <sipa> as they both iterate all transactions
 137 2014-01-03 00:49:56 <sipa> (with the exception that listtransaction needs to send back much more data)
 138 2014-01-03 00:50:07 <nightlingo> sipa:  why would "listtransactions * 1000"  iterate all transactions. This is just the last 1000 transactions
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 161 2014-01-03 01:06:43 <sipa> nightlingo: because they're not indexed by time, internally
 162 2014-01-03 01:07:03 <sipa> and neither are they indexed by account or address
 163 2014-01-03 01:07:32 <nightlingo> sipa: what about -blocknotify?
 164 2014-01-03 01:07:43 <sipa> yes, what about it?
 165 2014-01-03 01:08:13 <nightlingo> sipa: if we simply checked only the newest changed block, for transactions ? wouldnt it be more efficient?
 166 2014-01-03 01:08:33 <sipa> yes, but then you have to implement an entire wallet yourself
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 168 2014-01-03 01:08:51 <sipa> ah
 169 2014-01-03 01:09:20 <sipa> you mean using bitcoind's wallet for sending and keeping track of total balance, but use blocknotify to keep your internal database up to date
 170 2014-01-03 01:09:29 <nightlingo> sipa: yes
 171 2014-01-03 01:09:31 <sipa> that may work, if you're not interested in unconfirmed transactions
 172 2014-01-03 01:09:40 <sipa> also, make sure you can handle reorganizations
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 174 2014-01-03 01:09:46 <nightlingo> sipa: you could only do this when the block has >=6 confirmations
 175 2014-01-03 01:10:19 <jcrubino> whats news today bitcoin?
 176 2014-01-03 01:10:21 <nightlingo> sipa: a reorganization is what?
 177 2014-01-03 01:10:49 <sipa> nightlingo: you may want to read up about bitcoin's internals before trying to build a database interacting with it
 178 2014-01-03 01:11:02 <sipa> a reorganization is a switch from one fork to another
 179 2014-01-03 01:11:13 <jcrubino> the bitcoind db is full featured
 180 2014-01-03 01:11:27 <sipa> jcrubino: ?
 181 2014-01-03 01:11:28 <nightlingo> sipa: thanks
 182 2014-01-03 01:11:52 <sipa> nightlingo: which means the number of confirmations on a transactions may decrease (and even go back to zero)
 183 2014-01-03 01:12:41 <CodeShark> point is there is no solid high-level API for payment processing that's part of bitcoind :)
 184 2014-01-03 01:12:57 <nightlingo> CodeShark: yeah that's a point
 185 2014-01-03 01:12:57 <CodeShark> if you want something solid you have to build it yourself
 186 2014-01-03 01:13:30 <CodeShark> I'll have a set of tools ready soon
 187 2014-01-03 01:13:44 <CodeShark> for general consumption :)
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 190 2014-01-03 01:14:54 <nightlingo> can't wait to consume them :)
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 287 2014-01-03 02:53:06 <nightlingo> regarding orphaned blocks: a high enough confirmations number is the way to make sure a block is not orphaned ?
 288 2014-01-03 02:55:16 <nessence> why does the btc client do so much to conceal addresses?
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 291 2014-01-03 02:58:00 <nessence> nightlingo: blocks are orphaned because their difficulty, or difficulty of the chain behind it, is too low
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 294 2014-01-03 03:00:08 <nightlingo> nessence: so, how to protect from it?   say, my wallet received some coins. I see those by executing "listtransactions". then, I update my local database.  but then, the block in which that transaction happened gets orphaned.  what happens now ?
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 296 2014-01-03 03:02:12 <nessence> if I'm not mistaken, the transaction must be relayed again... if it's not picked up and incorporated into another block. not sure if it's automatic. it can take a long time if txfee is real low (or nothing)
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 298 2014-01-03 03:03:15 <nightlingo> nessence: I see
 299 2014-01-03 03:05:05 <sipa> nessence: it is automatic
 300 2014-01-03 03:05:18 <sipa> and bitcoind's wallet will rebroadcast if necessary
 301 2014-01-03 03:05:53 <sipa> nightlingo: however your database must be able to deal with cinfirmations decreasing
 302 2014-01-03 03:06:01 <nightlingo> sipa: so in that case if we had already recorded that transaction in our local database we're screwed
 303 2014-01-03 03:06:23 <nessence> I can't imagine a transaction getting 'lost'. but could take a *LONG* time if fee is 0. only some miners add those transactions so you're waiting on those miners to solve a block
 304 2014-01-03 03:06:32 <nessence> ... that isn't orphaned
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 306 2014-01-03 03:06:48 <sipa> nightlingo: just deal with it
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 308 2014-01-03 03:07:00 <sipa> remove it again, or mark it as reverted
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 311 2014-01-03 03:07:34 <nightlingo> sipa: but what if the user has spent the coins already?
 312 2014-01-03 03:07:51 <nessence> nightlingo: it's similar to a credit card. you get verifications from several peers... but it's not final until, spec-wise 24hrs (120 blocks). some say that 25 blocks (~4.16 hrs) is enough time
 313 2014-01-03 03:08:01 <sipa> well then you have a problem, and it's a risk you have to take
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 315 2014-01-03 03:08:20 <sipa> but if you only accept coins at sufficient confirmations, the odds become very low quickly
 316 2014-01-03 03:08:21 <nightlingo> isn't there a way to be sure that a transaction is OK to transfer to local DB ?
 317 2014-01-03 03:08:29 <ne0futur> nightlingo: you allowed him to spend the coins before have 6 confirmations ? you chose to have that problem
 318 2014-01-03 03:09:01 <nightlingo> ne0futur: that's what I'm asking. do 6 confirmations  minimize that risk ?
 319 2014-01-03 03:09:13 <ne0futur> ys its the basic way to deal with this problem
 320 2014-01-03 03:09:24 <nightlingo> let me rephrase: in order to deal with the orphaned blocks problem I only have to increase the necessary confirmations ?
 321 2014-01-03 03:09:30 <nightlingo> ok
 322 2014-01-03 03:09:30 <ne0futur> most serious bitcoin businesses will wait for 6 confs
 323 2014-01-03 03:09:43 <sipa> there is no magic number, and whatever you choose, you have to be able to deal with reorganizations
 324 2014-01-03 03:09:54 <ne0futur> possibly 4 confs could be nearly enough, but anyway 0 conf is a big risk
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 326 2014-01-03 03:10:07 <nightlingo> ne0futur: I was planning on using 6
 327 2014-01-03 03:10:11 <sipa> that is independnet from making sure that your financial risk is minimal
 328 2014-01-03 03:10:24 <ne0futur> yup no magic number, for a 100 million dollars worth transaction, i would wait for at least 100 confs ;)
 329 2014-01-03 03:10:42 <nightlingo> sipa:  don't confirmations deal with the reorganizations problem as well ?
 330 2014-01-03 03:10:51 <ne0futur> for a 100 dollars worth tx, from a trustd friend, 0 conf is ok here
 331 2014-01-03 03:10:59 <sipa> reorgs of 30 and more have happened
 332 2014-01-03 03:11:17 gwb3_ has quit (Quit: adios)
 333 2014-01-03 03:11:28 <sipa> your database software has to be able to deal with that
 334 2014-01-03 03:11:46 <sipa> fix that first, and then you can start thinking about what policy you need to orevent losses
 335 2014-01-03 03:11:47 <nightlingo> sipa: it's not a bout the database. it's about the general logic.
 336 2014-01-03 03:12:02 <sipa> the database and its associated logic, i meam
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 339 2014-01-03 03:12:30 <sipa> if your software cannot deal with reorganizations (like many have in the past, it will break
 340 2014-01-03 03:12:36 <nightlingo> sipa: fixing the database is the least.  the problem is what happens if the user uses these coins which in future will be part of a reorganization
 341 2014-01-03 03:13:05 <sipa> well obviously you subtract reorganized coins from their balance
 342 2014-01-03 03:13:09 <nightlingo> sipa: example: an e-shop, where the user buys digital goods
 343 2014-01-03 03:13:38 <sipa> if you wait 6 confirmations, you will likely not ever suffer monetary loss as a result from reorgs
 344 2014-01-03 03:13:52 <nightlingo> sipa: what happens if at 6 confirmations, the digital good is sent to the consumer, and at 30 confirmations, reorganization occurs
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 346 2014-01-03 03:14:15 <sipa> in almost all cases, the transaction will cinfirm again
 347 2014-01-03 03:14:32 <nightlingo> ok
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 349 2014-01-03 03:14:45 <nightlingo> thanks!
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 351 2014-01-03 03:15:00 <nightlingo> too much information to digest :)
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 363 2014-01-03 03:26:42 <nessence> nightlingo: your biggest concern is the first ~2-3 blocks. and you get confirmations faster. because even if there's a reorg, unless the person who double-spent had control over the reorg, it's unlikely you won't get the funds
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 365 2014-01-03 03:27:14 <nightlingo> nessence: aaah  I see
 366 2014-01-03 03:27:41 <nightlingo> nessence: that's reassuring :)
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 368 2014-01-03 03:28:04 <nessence> nightlingo: the concern is if they xfer 1btc to themselves 2 seconds before they pay you. both transactions get picked up and confirmed separately, but one of the blocks will get orphaned. hard to tell which. supposedly, from what gmaxwell said, it's unlikely to be a problem after 25 blocks (~5hrs)
 369 2014-01-03 03:28:22 Ld4432 has quit (Client Quit)
 370 2014-01-03 03:29:37 <nightlingo> nessence: I hate reorgs :/
 371 2014-01-03 03:29:42 mitz has joined
 372 2014-01-03 03:29:56 <nightlingo> nessence: how is the mac client going by the way ?
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 376 2014-01-03 03:31:44 <nessence> slow. bills to pay, and sadly, mom was in hospital this week
 377 2014-01-03 03:32:19 <nessence> helped someone else get their qt client going though. so that's promising
 378 2014-01-03 03:32:29 <nessence> and got bitcoin building locally with only a few lines and homebrew
 379 2014-01-03 03:32:32 <nightlingo> nessence: ooh that sucks man.. I wish the best
 380 2014-01-03 03:33:26 <nessence> yeah, she's okay now.
 381 2014-01-03 03:33:36 <nightlingo> cool
 382 2014-01-03 03:35:04 <nightlingo> nessence: what language do you usually work in ?
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 387 2014-01-03 03:40:09 <nessence> I like working in c, obj-c, and recently c++
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 596 2014-01-03 07:32:25 <sida> Hey does anyone know how transaction propogation is estimated? Is this something that bitcoind is able to do? Example: https://blockchain.info/inv/e249700db1bea42a68392283ff5a167c629ebd05996373b1bac1270408b27320
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 605 2014-01-03 07:36:16 <ne0futur> sida: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Network#Standard_relaying https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
 606 2014-01-03 07:36:24 <ne0futur> aftr that its just geoip
 607 2014-01-03 07:36:35 <justanotheruser>  sida: blockchain.info only can tell how propogated it is because of how many nodes its connected to
 608 2014-01-03 07:36:51 <justanotheruser> you can only tell it is sent to the 8 you sent it to in the first place
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 610 2014-01-03 07:37:31 <sida> ahh I see.
 611 2014-01-03 07:37:54 <sida> I am propogating some transactions. Is there a way that I can track the propogation of that transaction through bitcoind?
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 613 2014-01-03 07:38:02 <sida> I don't see a method in the client API call list
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 617 2014-01-03 07:38:39 <justanotheruser> sida: no for the reasons I just stated. blockchain.info is connected to 1000 peers, so it can see in order which peers forward the transaction (hash) to them
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 619 2014-01-03 07:39:58 <sida> umm Sorry dumb question but how are they able to do that? Do they track it in the logs or?
 620 2014-01-03 07:40:20 <sida> Like if I wanted to do track propogation from my node. Where would I be able to find that information on my server?
 621 2014-01-03 07:40:26 <sida> Really appreciate it :P
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 626 2014-01-03 07:42:27 <justanotheruser> sida: you could change the number of peers you connect to and modify your client so it alerts you when someone tries to send you a specific transaction
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 629 2014-01-03 07:44:07 <sida> @justanotheruser oh I see. When I relay the transaction to my peers, and if they consider it valid then they will relay it back to me. And then I know that they have relayed it?
 630 2014-01-03 07:44:29 <justanotheruser> sida: they will not relay it back.
 631 2014-01-03 07:44:55 <sida> justanotheruser: oh, wait so how do I know that they have considered it valid?
 632 2014-01-03 07:45:06 <sida> anjustanotheruser: and then passed it on?
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 634 2014-01-03 07:46:09 <justanotheruser> sida: you don't know that they passed it on. You hope one of the eight did
 635 2014-01-03 07:46:15 <justanotheruser> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Node#Standard_relaying
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 637 2014-01-03 07:48:03 <justanotheruser> You probably could modify it so you connect to 200 peers and only relay it to 8, then watch the 192 peers you didn't send it to for propogation. Once one of the 192 peers has the transaction they will ask you if you have if
 638 2014-01-03 07:48:06 <justanotheruser> *have it
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 640 2014-01-03 07:49:05 <sida> justanotheruser: ahh I see. Maybe this is how blockchain info does it. They probably run multiple nodes. One relays one listens maybe
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 642 2014-01-03 07:49:30 <sida> justanotheruser: Is this something that I set in my bitcoin.conf ? Sorry, really noobie quesitons
 643 2014-01-03 07:49:38 <justanotheruser> sida: I believe that is how they do it
 644 2014-01-03 07:50:18 <justanotheruser> sida: You can set how many peers you connect to in the conf file, but you won't connect to all of them if it is too high unless you have a lot of bandwidth
 645 2014-01-03 07:51:24 <sida> yeah I found that's the case. I set 100 but only connect to 40 or so
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 647 2014-01-03 07:52:20 <sida> justanotheruser: so I am still stuck at the part of how do I monitor and know whether a peer has asked me for information
 648 2014-01-03 07:52:35 <sida> justanotheruser: Should I tail -f the logs ? or something?
 649 2014-01-03 07:53:33 <justanotheruser> you could use -alertnotify I believe
 650 2014-01-03 07:53:39 <justanotheruser> (but that might be for the alert network)
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 652 2014-01-03 07:54:57 <justanotheruser> Ignore those last two statements
 653 2014-01-03 07:55:10 <sida> oh ahah ok
 654 2014-01-03 07:55:14 <sida> I am readying through the api list
 655 2014-01-03 07:55:19 <sida>  -alertnotify=<cmd>     Execute command when a relevant alert is received (%s in cmd is replaced by message)
 656 2014-01-03 07:56:04 <justanotheruser> yes
 657 2014-01-03 07:56:25 <sida> seems to be different from inv
 658 2014-01-03 07:56:32 <justanotheruser> -debugnet looks somewhat promising. That might tell you about the inv messages you are receiving
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 660 2014-01-03 07:57:04 <justanotheruser> sida: yes, I believe alertnotify is actually for telling you when the devs issue an alert
 661 2014-01-03 07:57:15 <sida> I found something
 662 2014-01-03 07:57:24 <sida> I am doing tail -f .bitcoin/debug.log
 663 2014-01-03 07:57:31 <sida> 2014-01-03 07:52:56 received getdata for: tx b89b6c15db5ff9985d11f70e955076d4d88081cf0abaf911470ae5df1f91c7be
 664 2014-01-03 07:57:35 <ne0futur> sida: http://cointext.com/bitcoin-and-ip-address-privacy/
 665 2014-01-03 07:58:43 <sida> ne0futur: Good article. I am reading through it. This is really interesting
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 667 2014-01-03 07:59:12 <sida> justanotheruser: by the way, I was going to say, if I tail -f debug.log I can basically count the number of times I receive a request for getdata
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 669 2014-01-03 08:00:23 <justanotheruser> sida: do you have -debugnet on/
 670 2014-01-03 08:02:04 <sida> No actually
 671 2014-01-03 08:02:15 <sida> I am about to
 672 2014-01-03 08:02:22 <sida> I didn't want to lose the nodes that I am connected to
 673 2014-01-03 08:03:20 <sida> I am doing it now
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 675 2014-01-03 08:04:37 <sida> actually, I don't see anymore logs than before after turnning -debugnet
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 677 2014-01-03 08:06:43 <justanotheruser> sida: you could use bitcoin on a specific port and save all the data from that stream to be parsed
 678 2014-01-03 08:07:20 <sida> instead of 8333?
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 680 2014-01-03 08:08:43 <justanotheruser> sida: no, just log 8333, you don't need to change
 681 2014-01-03 08:12:49 <sida> I am looking at tcpdump
 682 2014-01-03 08:14:27 <sida> justanotheruser: I am doing this: sudo tcpdump -l port 8333
 683 2014-01-03 08:14:40 <sida> can't really see anything
 684 2014-01-03 08:15:03 <sida> Just really verbose, noisy logs
 685 2014-01-03 08:15:26 <justanotheruser> sida: No raw dats?
 686 2014-01-03 08:15:29 <justanotheruser> *data
 687 2014-01-03 08:16:07 <justanotheruser> Modifying your bitcoin client may be an easier option
 688 2014-01-03 08:16:35 <sida> not familiar with tcpdump still trying to get raw data
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 690 2014-01-03 08:17:27 <justanotheruser> I'm not really sure. There may be an easier way to do this, I haven't used bitcoind to find transaction messages from peers
 691 2014-01-03 08:17:33 <justanotheruser> *specific peers
 692 2014-01-03 08:17:51 <sida> What do you use?
 693 2014-01-03 08:18:02 <sida> I might just go with that?
 694 2014-01-03 08:20:30 <justanotheruser> sida: I haven't used any program to try to track network propogation, if I attempted it I either would do so through modifying bitcoind or monitoring my traffic.
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 697 2014-01-03 08:21:00 <sida> I see
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 699 2014-01-03 08:21:06 <sida> Thank you for your help
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 701 2014-01-03 08:21:19 <sida> I guess I can just use blockchain.info's API
 702 2014-01-03 08:21:20 <sida> https://blockchain.info/inv/e249700db1bea42a68392283ff5a167c629ebd05996373b1bac1270408b27320?format=json
 703 2014-01-03 08:21:44 <sida> Although I still want to trace my own network propagation, that sounded like a fun project
 704 2014-01-03 08:24:45 <justanotheruser> sida: yeah, it is interesting. All you would need to do is make an event happen (print "<IP> send inv for <tx>") every time someone sends an inv for a certain transaction
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 708 2014-01-03 08:30:45 <Zoop_> happy b-day bitcoin and fellow bitcoiners!
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 736 2014-01-03 09:30:55 <epscy> they grow up so fast *sniff sniff*
 737 2014-01-03 09:30:58 agnostic98 has joined
 738 2014-01-03 09:31:13 <epscy> i seriously can't wait till autumn 2016
 739 2014-01-03 09:31:22 <epscy> the block reward will halve again
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 741 2014-01-03 09:31:36 <epscy> hilary clinton will be about to get elected president
 742 2014-01-03 09:31:42 <epscy> it will be good times
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 749 2014-01-03 09:37:06 <robonerd> ew
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 751 2014-01-03 09:39:13 <epscy> sorry i thought this was #bitcoin
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 753 2014-01-03 09:39:33 <epscy> i'll take my provocative trolling elsewhere
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 758 2014-01-03 09:44:39 <robonerd> ty
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 772 2014-01-03 10:05:24 <brisque> ;;seen BlueMatt
 773 2014-01-03 10:05:25 <gribble> BlueMatt was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 10 hours, 44 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks
 774 2014-01-03 10:06:39 <brisque> ;;later tell BlueMatt for added value, the "Coingen branding" should include a message in the genesis block as well. prevents people releasing guides to remove it for free after creation.
 775 2014-01-03 10:06:39 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 792 2014-01-03 10:22:38 <robonerd> Jan 25-26 http://btcmiami.com/ <- any angels in the channel with $40k for a great idea spearheaded by an established professional want to be ready in time to present a technology demo at/during this event? <- so a big part of why i need cash here, is certain gaps in my knowledge. i don't know crypto currency design low level, the math, the past 5-10 years of protocol design experience, etc. i can learn it myself like most of my knowledge, but the
 793 2014-01-03 10:22:38 <robonerd>  time is cherry and $ would grease the skids
 794 2014-01-03 10:22:58 <robonerd> short of $, would any *coin design/dev experts be interested in potentially partnering up?
 795 2014-01-03 10:23:26 <robonerd> we could meet in the pac north west (seattleish) and have a tech demo to show in time
 796 2014-01-03 10:23:29 yubrew has joined
 797 2014-01-03 10:23:41 <robonerd> long shot, but figured it's 2am and why not cast a line
 798 2014-01-03 10:23:44 <robonerd> =)
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 800 2014-01-03 10:24:56 <BlueMatt> brisque: meh, the goal is to target people who wont/cant compile themselves, so I'm not too worried
 801 2014-01-03 10:25:46 <robonerd> (i can build all/most of the software)
 802 2014-01-03 10:25:49 <brisque> BlueMatt: alright, just a thought while I was looking through the coins it's made so far. might want to fix the genesis block issue though.
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 806 2014-01-03 10:28:31 <robonerd> ok
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 823 2014-01-03 10:56:41 <robonerd> would anyone be interested in explaining to me on skype how bitcoin works, high and low level, for pay?
 824 2014-01-03 10:57:04 <robonerd> i need a lot of brain dump in a short time. i want to build this bitcoin extension idea i have in time for bitcoin miami
 825 2014-01-03 10:57:23 <robonerd> ideally a bitcoin dev
 826 2014-01-03 10:57:29 <brisque> robonerd: have you read the whitepaper?
 827 2014-01-03 10:57:35 <robonerd> which?
 828 2014-01-03 10:57:47 <brisque> http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 829 2014-01-03 10:57:48 <sipa> bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 830 2014-01-03 10:57:59 <robonerd> moment
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 834 2014-01-03 11:02:02 <robonerd> for how i learn, i would learn better and more quickly if i paid someone for a 30-60 minute skype chat overview of what the paper covers
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 838 2014-01-03 11:08:52 <sipa> if it's really a good idea, it may be more fruitful to get others interested in it
 839 2014-01-03 11:09:13 <sipa> discussing it may also get you useful criticism
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 847 2014-01-03 11:15:28 <robonerd> does anyone know Richard Miller?
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 858 2014-01-03 11:32:55 <robonerd> anyone know the person who came up with color coin?
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 881 2014-01-03 12:06:36 <shesek> robonerd, I think that multiple people came up with that independently
 882 2014-01-03 12:06:49 <robonerd> ahh
 883 2014-01-03 12:08:20 <shesek> petertodd, so basically it requires an altcoin (or alt-noncoin-blockchain) to do that?
 884 2014-01-03 12:09:47 <shesek> the thing is that bitcoin's hash power gives a really strong guarantee of integrity, one that I can see accepted by courts and such. I'm not sure if something with a small-ish hashpower could ever achieve that
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 907 2014-01-03 12:43:05 <shesek> BlueMatt, congrats on releasing coingen, seems like its going pretty well :)
 908 2014-01-03 12:43:14 <shesek> I imagined someone would do that sooner or later
 909 2014-01-03 12:45:02 <nessence> BlueMatt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aipdszdwrwpdsqc/Screenshot%202014-01-03%2006.40.39.png
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 911 2014-01-03 12:45:44 <brisque> I imagine he knows, he's the poster of that
 912 2014-01-03 12:45:54 <shesek> was just going to say that ^
 913 2014-01-03 12:46:06 <nessence> just in case
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 916 2014-01-03 12:48:18 <sipa> ow, coingen.io!
 917 2014-01-03 12:48:52 <brisque> hope all these coins aren't using the same default port, it looks like they are.
 918 2014-01-03 12:49:06 <brisque> sipa: good news is that the number of paid coins now covers the domain cost
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 922 2014-01-03 12:57:14 <t7> can someone try to inject some javascript on the coingen.io page i don't wanna get in trouble :3
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 929 2014-01-03 13:02:26 <brisque> there's some pretty unsavoury coins on that list without you sticking in XSS as well.
 930 2014-01-03 13:02:28 <shesek> t7, if you do find a vulnerability and disclose it responsibly without abusing it, I don't see any reason why you would "get in trouble"
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 932 2014-01-03 13:03:09 <shesek> but yeah, the attempts being shown publicly for everyone might be a bit annoying
 933 2014-01-03 13:03:23 <brisque> t7: the coin names are limited to no spaces and no special characters already, one would assume
 934 2014-01-03 13:06:19 yubrew has joined
 935 2014-01-03 13:06:38 <t7> coingen should give you a diff
 936 2014-01-03 13:06:46 <t7> save some HDD
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 941 2014-01-03 13:13:11 hexxie_away is now known as hexafraction
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 947 2014-01-03 13:19:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How do coingen coins do bootstrapping?
 948 2014-01-03 13:19:42 <brisque> they talk to BlueeMatt's custom accept-anything node.
 949 2014-01-03 13:20:08 <brisque> the peer port varies based on wether they are scrypt or sha256d based.
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 992 2014-01-03 14:33:49 <nightlingo> yo!!
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 999 2014-01-03 14:36:29 <AndyOfiesh> ...
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1013 2014-01-03 14:50:44 <sipa> why oh why does a local newspaper report "soon we'll all pay with coinye west", instead of something like "bitcoin is 5 years old" ...
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