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   3 2014-01-11 00:05:36 <forrestv> maaku, until recently, twmz, but now i'm maintaining it. it is open source - but it's a windows azure "solution" - https://github.com/ervwalter/p2pool.info
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   6 2014-01-11 00:05:55 <forrestv> i'm working on a python port of the backend
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  18 2014-01-11 00:24:54 <ryan-c> andytoshi: hehe, whoops
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  24 2014-01-11 00:30:11 <jgarzik> Beta testing new bootstrap.dat torrent!
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  26 2014-01-11 00:30:14 <jgarzik> http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/bootstrap.dat.torrent
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  30 2014-01-11 00:31:05 <jgarzik> Should successfully re-use ~70% of the old bootstrap.dat
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  54 2014-01-11 01:08:03 <sipa> i'm trying to create a patch that implements headers-first's per-peer-download-tracking without actually making it headers-first
  55 2014-01-11 01:08:06 <sipa> and i
  56 2014-01-11 01:08:18 <sipa> 'm still faced with hundreds of orphans being downloaded
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  61 2014-01-11 01:15:43 <sipa> maybe i should first trying syncing from scratch on head, and not feel bad when it improves but remains horrible for now
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  63 2014-01-11 01:16:59 <gmaxwell> sipa: how are you doing it without using headers first to know what blocks to get? just using getheaders to read slightly ahead?
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  65 2014-01-11 01:17:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: no, downloading the blocks as they are now downloaded
  66 2014-01-11 01:17:42 <sipa> so every getdata for a block, goes via a per-peer queue, and gets tracked how many are in flight etc
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 138 2014-01-11 03:30:55 <jgarzik> Beta-testing bootstrap.dat torrent!   Updated to block 279,000.   http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/bootstrap.dat.torrent
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 140 2014-01-11 03:31:16 <TheLordOfTime> jgarzik: can I slap you?
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 142 2014-01-11 03:32:18 <TheLordOfTime> that got posted at the same time in two channels and pinged me as possible amsg spam o.O
 143 2014-01-11 03:32:29 <TheLordOfTime> jgarzik: (in #bitcoin, also, there seems to be a temporary ban on URLs)
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 147 2014-01-11 03:36:08 <jgarzik> TheLordOfTime, well, it's not.
 148 2014-01-11 03:36:17 <TheLordOfTime> jgarzik: i realize that, the ping threw me off
 149 2014-01-11 03:36:21 * TheLordOfTime is editing his notifier now
 150 2014-01-11 03:36:50 <TheLordOfTime> jgarzik: kinda instinctual at the moment, there's been a bit of malware spam regarding bitcoins on the channels i watch so i'm kinda on high alert
 151 2014-01-11 03:36:58 <TheLordOfTime> so forgive me :/
 152 2014-01-11 03:37:36 <TheLordOfTime> bad day for mods in general though, there's more spam today than I've seen in two years of being on IRC :/
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 229 2014-01-11 05:37:54 <kezu> noob question: what is the best way to get a ticker that auto updates say from gox or bitstamp?
 230 2014-01-11 05:38:08 <kezu> i can use php and file_get_contents
 231 2014-01-11 05:38:22 <kezu> and decode json to php object
 232 2014-01-11 05:38:31 <justanotheruser> kezu: you can check the ticker every second
 233 2014-01-11 05:38:33 <kezu> but would i need javascript to get it to update at an interval?
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 236 2014-01-11 05:39:14 <justanotheruser> kezu: oh, you're referring to updating the users ticker automatically, not your servers.
 237 2014-01-11 05:39:31 <justanotheruser> Yeah, javascript and make the user do it, or you do it and serve it to the user using ajax
 238 2014-01-11 05:39:35 <kezu> well i want to add it to a webpage
 239 2014-01-11 05:39:43 <kezu> ah i see
 240 2014-01-11 05:39:55 <kezu> what is the best method?
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 242 2014-01-11 05:40:09 <kezu> how do ticker sites do it?
 243 2014-01-11 05:40:20 <justanotheruser> kezu: check their source, I have no idea
 244 2014-01-11 05:40:53 <justanotheruser> most ticker sites probably serve the ticker data from their servers rather than making the user fetch it, but that's just a guess
 245 2014-01-11 05:40:53 <kezu> anyone know if i would need to pull it into php to update it regularly with javascript
 246 2014-01-11 05:41:00 <kezu> or do I just use javascript
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 257 2014-01-11 06:01:48 <justanotheruser> What is the top stack item usually after a script executes, 1?
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 267 2014-01-11 06:22:16 <Gabit> Hi guys, I was trying to understand getwork/stratum and pools and one question: Miners need coinbase address from the pool so they can calculate the block properly?
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 272 2014-01-11 06:28:46 <lechuga__> they need the coinbase transaction
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 275 2014-01-11 06:33:29 <Gabit> yes, right =) Thx :)
 276 2014-01-11 06:36:54 <Gabit> join /#folding@home
 277 2014-01-11 06:37:00 <Gabit> sry...
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 328 2014-01-11 08:12:12 <wyager> For anyone interested in wallet encryption standards, the discussion on the proposed HD paper wallet encryption standard has gone a little stale. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258678.100
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 354 2014-01-11 08:43:10 <jcorgan> wyager: i'm going to be doing an implementation of that soon
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 356 2014-01-11 08:44:54 <jcorgan> i hadn't seen your post on the bloom filter stuff though
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 366 2014-01-11 09:15:46 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: http://fastcompression.blogspot.fr/2013/12/finite-state-entropy-new-breed-of.html
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 380 2014-01-11 09:52:06 <abrkn> im attempting to clean up in vbuterin/bitcoinjs-lib, specifically the bip32 code. feel free to join: https://github.com/vbuterin/bitcoinjs-lib/issues/12
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 390 2014-01-11 10:00:27 <cr3pe> hi
 391 2014-01-11 10:02:39 <cr3pe> So I'm wondering, is it possible to encrypt a message using an address pubkey and decrypt it with the private key? Or can you just sign messages?
 392 2014-01-11 10:07:32 <justanotheruser> cr3pe: ECDSA is a signature algorithm
 393 2014-01-11 10:08:52 <justanotheruser> so no
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 398 2014-01-11 10:14:52 <cr3pe> justanotheruser: ok, thanks.
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 400 2014-01-11 10:17:22 <Luke-Jr> cr3pe: I'd wait for an answer from someone who actually understands the math behind EC, if you want to be sure
 401 2014-01-11 10:17:37 <Luke-Jr> (I think justanotheruser is right, though)
 402 2014-01-11 10:19:33 <niston> hmm
 403 2014-01-11 10:19:40 <niston> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196378.0
 404 2014-01-11 10:20:19 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: true. My knowledge is based on search results from possibly uninformed people because I had the same question at one point too.
 405 2014-01-11 10:22:41 <justanotheruser> cr3pe: this guy is suggesting that you might be able to use ECIES with ECDSA, but he seems unsure https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34860.msg437643#msg437643
 406 2014-01-11 10:22:51 hnz has joined
 407 2014-01-11 10:23:40 <cr3pe> niston, justanotheruser: thanks. That's useful info there.
 408 2014-01-11 10:24:52 <cr3pe> I think that's what I'm looking for.
 409 2014-01-11 10:25:44 <cr3pe> Another question maybe, how do you sign a message on behalf of a multisig address? Is it possible?
 410 2014-01-11 10:25:58 <cr3pe> addresses like 35g7wDjkAz8uS6u1nSar1VWjWZMyb8qcym
 411 2014-01-11 10:26:48 <Happzz> some testnet coins please? mt23ybmMBJMqGvHquEE8LKUiehnhV2JUMt
 412 2014-01-11 10:26:56 <Happzz> thanks ahead.
 413 2014-01-11 10:27:05 <cr3pe> Happzz: use a faucet?
 414 2014-01-11 10:27:10 <lianj> Happzz: http://tpfaucet.appspot.com/
 415 2014-01-11 10:27:35 <shesek> cr3pe, not really, now. you could sign it with multiple keys and provide multiple signatures, though
 416 2014-01-11 10:27:35 <Happzz> API error 5 (urlfetch: DEADLINE_EXCEEDED)
 417 2014-01-11 10:27:36 <Happzz> it's broken
 418 2014-01-11 10:28:00 <shesek> Happzz, http://faucet.xeno-genesis.com/
 419 2014-01-11 10:28:13 <shesek> s/now/not
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 422 2014-01-11 10:31:45 <cr3pe> shesek: ok that could be a solution indeed.
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 437 2014-01-11 10:56:52 <maaku> cr3pe: there isn't a standard mechanism for P2SH signatures, or generic scriptPubKey signatures for that matter
 438 2014-01-11 10:57:30 <maaku> it's not hard to think up a mechanism by which it might be done though
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 525 2014-01-11 13:22:33 <erle-> i have a question regarding transactions
 526 2014-01-11 13:22:44 bitnumus has joined
 527 2014-01-11 13:22:53 <erle-> how is it secured that you cannot take a transaction and change the output?
 528 2014-01-11 13:23:13 <erle-> it looks to me like the ecdsa only secures that the inputs are valid
 529 2014-01-11 13:24:15 <erle-> like here:
 530 2014-01-11 13:24:16 <erle-> https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/e/e1/TxBinaryMap.png
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 534 2014-01-11 13:25:58 <shesek> erle-, the data that's signed with the private key includes the outputs
 535 2014-01-11 13:26:38 <erle-> with each private key?
 536 2014-01-11 13:26:39 <erle-> ok
 537 2014-01-11 13:28:10 <shesek> the whole transaction (minus the input scripts) is signed with each private key, yes
 538 2014-01-11 13:28:46 <shesek> (that is, with the default SIGHASH_ALL, other types do this differently)
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 541 2014-01-11 13:31:18 <erle-> shesek, of course i mean in "standard" address-to-address transactions
 542 2014-01-11 13:35:17 <erle-> i am wondering why they came up with this complex script thing in the first place, but on the other side it is nice to be able to do a lot of funny transactions
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 546 2014-01-11 13:38:12 <bitnumus> hey, does anyone have some spare testnet coins ?
 547 2014-01-11 13:38:38 <tommygunner> http://tpfaucet.appspot.com
 548 2014-01-11 13:38:55 <bitnumus> thanks
 549 2014-01-11 13:39:05 <bitnumus> how large is the testnet chain atm ?
 550 2014-01-11 13:40:48 <kinlo> my bitcoin directory is about 630 meg
 551 2014-01-11 13:40:55 <kinlo> (for testnet)
 552 2014-01-11 13:41:09 <bitnumus> kinlo, thankyou, thats up to date ?
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 554 2014-01-11 13:41:13 <kinlo> yes
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 561 2014-01-11 13:48:45 <shesek> bitnumus, also see http://faucet.xeno-genesis.com/
 562 2014-01-11 13:48:56 <shesek> the appspot one is not always working
 563 2014-01-11 13:49:28 <shesek> oh, heh, it seems like the operator just joined a few moments before I pasted the link
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 577 2014-01-11 14:33:57 <andytoshi> is anyone familiar with using jansson for json encoding? how can i force it to only output 8 decimal places?
 578 2014-01-11 14:34:02 <andytoshi> or better, to use decimal numbers
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 586 2014-01-11 14:54:07 <sipa> andytoshi: iirc Luke-Jr's bfgminer uses jansson
 587 2014-01-11 14:55:04 <andytoshi> thx sipa, i'll check it out
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 590 2014-01-11 15:00:35 <andytoshi> hmm, indeed it does, but it avoids ever encoding decimal values
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 593 2014-01-11 15:01:13 <andytoshi> i suppose for now it's fine, the error is in the 16th decimal place and bitcoind does the right thing with it
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 605 2014-01-11 15:17:34 <bitnumus> thanks shesek , yea i didn't get any coins from the other one
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 612 2014-01-11 15:19:30 <shesek> bitnumus, they're usually sent eventually, but after a long delay
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 614 2014-01-11 15:20:17 <bitnumus> hmm, am i right in remembering that its worthwhile mining on testnet even with CPU? because the difficulty resets or something ?
 615 2014-01-11 15:20:28 <bitnumus> like time delayed reset
 616 2014-01-11 15:20:53 <sipa> if you're the only one mining, sure
 617 2014-01-11 15:20:58 <sipa> i doubt that's the case now
 618 2014-01-11 15:21:31 <bitnumus>  "difficulty" : 0.81245429,
 619 2014-01-11 15:21:53 <bitnumus> is it something like, if a block isn't found for 60minutes or something ?
 620 2014-01-11 15:22:03 <bitnumus> i vaguely remeber was a while since i played with it
 621 2014-01-11 15:22:06 <sipa> that makes no sense; it shouldn't ever go below 1
 622 2014-01-11 15:22:40 <bitnumus> hmm, thats what it says!
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 624 2014-01-11 15:23:00 <sipa> this is not regtest mode, right?
 625 2014-01-11 15:23:04 <gmaxwell> sounds like someone is trying to get altcoin support and disguise it as bitcoin support… :P
 626 2014-01-11 15:23:24 <bitnumus> regtest? :S  i'm literally running with -testnet
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 628 2014-01-11 15:23:25 <bitnumus> did i miss something
 629 2014-01-11 15:23:38 <sipa> which version?
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 633 2014-01-11 15:24:35 <gmaxwell>     "difficulty" : 1.00000000,
 634 2014-01-11 15:25:12 <bitnumus> version of bitcoind is 0.8.5
 635 2014-01-11 15:25:28 <bitnumus> i have a feeling i've missed something over the past 2 years then
 636 2014-01-11 15:25:38 <bitnumus> regarding testnet
 637 2014-01-11 15:25:56 <sipa> regtest is sort of a super-testnet, with even less strict rules
 638 2014-01-11 15:26:04 <kinlo> bitnumus: should upgrade I guess
 639 2014-01-11 15:26:10 <sipa> which does have sub-1 difficulty blocks
 640 2014-01-11 15:26:26 <sipa> but if you're passing -testnet, this does not apply
 641 2014-01-11 15:26:43 <bitnumus> 4:26   5:31 /usr/lib/bitcoin/bitcoind -testnet
 642 2014-01-11 15:26:48 <bitnumus> thats all i'm doing yes
 643 2014-01-11 15:27:10 <gmaxwell> bitnumus: what does blocks say?
 644 2014-01-11 15:27:12 <bitnumus> so there are now multiple running versions of testnet
 645 2014-01-11 15:27:33 <sipa> regtest isn't public; you won't be on it if you don't know about it; forget what i said
 646 2014-01-11 15:27:38 <bitnumus> i'm looking for coins compatible with   https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet_test&hl=en_GB
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 649 2014-01-11 15:28:12 <bitnumus> gmaxwell, "blocks" : 52207,
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 651 2014-01-11 15:28:52 <kinlo>     "blocks" : 167739,
 652 2014-01-11 15:29:51 <bitnumus> lol i did just jump on an old server, let me make sure i've not been a fool
 653 2014-01-11 15:30:30 <bitnumus> hmm
 654 2014-01-11 15:30:33 <bitnumus> version" : 32400,   sorry guys
 655 2014-01-11 15:30:48 <sipa> 0.3.24... why won't you DIE?
 656 2014-01-11 15:30:55 <bitnumus> !
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 666 2014-01-11 15:41:01 <bitnumus> oo fast :D
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 697 2014-01-11 16:25:50 <shamoon> in testnet, when i do: getrawtransaction 4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b 1
 698 2014-01-11 16:26:01 <shamoon> i get No information available about transaction (code -5)
 699 2014-01-11 16:26:11 <shamoon> but somehow, these peeps got it: http://testnet.btclook.com/txn/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b
 700 2014-01-11 16:27:40 <Apocalyptic> do you have -txindex ?
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 703 2014-01-11 16:35:12 <andytoshi> shamoon: set 'txindex = 1' in your bitcoin.conf, reindex, and be prepared to hold another couple gig
 704 2014-01-11 16:35:34 <andytoshi> actually, i don't have it either..
 705 2014-01-11 16:35:59 <andytoshi> oh, derp, testnet
 706 2014-01-11 16:37:38 <shamoon> andytoshi: thanks
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 720 2014-01-11 16:56:43 <shamoon> what's a "locktime" in a tx?
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 722 2014-01-11 16:59:46 <bitnumus> my testnet3 coins still haven't arrived from the faucets, don't suppose anyone has 1 spare?  mrFQpcpXYvFGSFu1Gcw9QZAGWT9yduPgwz
 723 2014-01-11 17:02:36 <andytoshi> bitnumus: sent 1, a6126608f8d8f7b6c5e3beb71a6a6c5095e1199554bea7546fe37626b820ed6a
 724 2014-01-11 17:02:41 <bitnumus> andytoshi, thanks a lot
 725 2014-01-11 17:03:05 <matjeh> bitnumus: sent 2750
 726 2014-01-11 17:03:06 <bitnumus> see it, guess faucets aren't working today!
 727 2014-01-11 17:03:21 <bitnumus> matjeh, lol
 728 2014-01-11 17:04:07 <bitnumus> that'll keep the testing pot going!
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 730 2014-01-11 17:04:42 <matjeh> :)
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 747 2014-01-11 17:36:50 <sipa> so, it seems that the high amounts of orphans while syncing are the result of basically downloading from two peers at once
 748 2014-01-11 17:37:43 <sipa> the patch i'm working on now does prevent duplicate requests (every block is only requested from one peer, and only resent elsewhere if the connection is broken - perhaps because we detect the peer isn't responding
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 750 2014-01-11 17:38:22 <sipa> it doesn't prevent orphans (=blocks received in incorrect order) though
 751 2014-01-11 17:38:41 <sipa> and if i limit the maximum number of orphans, the download gets stuck (it recovers on a new block, though)
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 759 2014-01-11 17:45:32 <shamoon> can a scriptPubKey have more than 1 addresses*?
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 762 2014-01-11 17:47:03 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Pooled_mining&curid=144&diff=43647&oldid=41153 <-- I find this historically/technologically interesting; why remove it?
 763 2014-01-11 17:47:30 <Luke-Jr> shamoon: scriptPubKey is a low-level concept, and address is a high-level concept. it doesn't make sense to mix them.
 764 2014-01-11 17:47:30 debiantoruser has joined
 765 2014-01-11 17:48:03 <Luke-Jr> shamoon: either scriptSig or scriptPubKey can use a number of related or unrelated ECDSA verifications
 766 2014-01-11 17:48:51 <sipa> bitcoind's decoding of scriptPubKey does make it seem that there can be multiple
 767 2014-01-11 17:48:56 <sipa> i think this is a historic mistake
 768 2014-01-11 17:49:18 <shamoon> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9bbff7734ad2aaf51e4f
 769 2014-01-11 17:49:21 <shamoon> as an example
 770 2014-01-11 17:49:33 <sipa> a scriptPubKey is always the exansion of a single address or something that isn't representable as one
 771 2014-01-11 17:49:34 <shamoon> this says that 50 btc were sent to mpqkcrDEmx4NjWLuTN9mu7P9FMnAy5V9VN
 772 2014-01-11 17:49:58 <sipa> it is however true that a single scriptPubKey can represent an operation that needs signatures from multiple keys
 773 2014-01-11 17:50:04 <shamoon> if there were multiple addresses, what would that mean?
 774 2014-01-11 17:50:15 <sipa> and the "addresses" of those individual keys can be known sometimes
 775 2014-01-11 17:50:21 enodios has joined
 776 2014-01-11 17:50:28 <sipa> ... again a historic confusion of key ids with addresses
 777 2014-01-11 17:50:39 <sipa> shamoon: multisig
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 779 2014-01-11 17:51:01 <shamoon> so if there were 2 addresses, it means 50 went to either of those addressses?
 780 2014-01-11 17:51:10 <Luke-Jr> no
 781 2014-01-11 17:51:26 <Luke-Jr> it could mean it needs approval from the owner of BOTH
 782 2014-01-11 17:51:38 <Luke-Jr> (it could also mean what you said)
 783 2014-01-11 17:52:05 <shamoon> i see
 784 2014-01-11 17:52:09 <Luke-Jr> if the length of Array is != 1, I'd consider it a bug and ignore it
 785 2014-01-11 17:52:09 <shamoon> interesting
 786 2014-01-11 17:52:15 <Luke-Jr> the Array*
 787 2014-01-11 17:52:29 <Luke-Jr> as sipa said, it was probably a mistake
 788 2014-01-11 17:52:31 <shamoon> for addresses?
 789 2014-01-11 17:52:40 <Luke-Jr> yes
 790 2014-01-11 17:52:53 <shamoon> so if i find an tx with multiple addresses, i can just ignore it?
 791 2014-01-11 17:53:49 <sipa> if you haven't created any multisig addresses, you can ignore them
 792 2014-01-11 17:54:21 <shamoon> well - i'm parsing the blockchain
 793 2014-01-11 17:54:27 <shamoon> so i'd need to track them
 794 2014-01-11 17:55:15 <sipa> you can consider them as a separate address
 795 2014-01-11 17:55:25 <sipa> or rather, as a separate "destination" for coins
 796 2014-01-11 17:55:40 <shamoon> so ['address1', 'address2'] can be treated as a unique destination
 797 2014-01-11 17:55:43 <sipa> indeed
 798 2014-01-11 17:55:44 <shamoon> separate from address1 and address2
 799 2014-01-11 17:55:48 <sipa> correct
 800 2014-01-11 17:55:48 <shamoon> interesting
 801 2014-01-11 17:55:56 <sipa> it will happen almost never
 802 2014-01-11 17:56:02 <shamoon> has it happened yet?
 803 2014-01-11 17:56:03 <sipa> but there are probably some occurrances
 804 2014-01-11 17:56:05 <sipa> yes
 805 2014-01-11 17:56:30 <shamoon> how can i find such an example?
 806 2014-01-11 17:56:43 <sipa> but the most common way of doing actual multisig now, is using p2sh
 807 2014-01-11 17:56:53 <shamoon> p2sh?
 808 2014-01-11 17:56:55 <sipa> in which case you'll see a single p2sh address in that array
 809 2014-01-11 17:57:02 <sipa> pay-to-script-hash
 810 2014-01-11 17:57:11 <sipa> a p2sh address is an address starting with a 3
 811 2014-01-11 17:57:20 <shamoon> interesting
 812 2014-01-11 17:57:27 <shamoon> what about on testnet?
 813 2014-01-11 17:57:33 <sipa> and represents a payment to a complex (but typically unknown) complex destination
 814 2014-01-11 17:57:58 <sipa> but the actual script (with the pubkeys in it) is only revealed when spending from it
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 818 2014-01-11 18:00:51 <andytoshi> ;;cjs
 819 2014-01-11 18:00:53 <gribble> Coinjoin Status: current session is open for 20 more minutes. There are currently something like 6 transactions in the pot. The most popular output value is 0.15. To participate, visit https://www.wpsoftware.net/coinjoin/ or http://xnpjsvp7crbzlj3w.onion/ .
 820 2014-01-11 18:01:12 <andytoshi> I submitted that from my gtk tool :) by end-of-day i should have something publishable
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 822 2014-01-11 18:01:21 <shamoon> thanks sipa
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 831 2014-01-11 18:16:05 <petertodd> ;;cjs
 832 2014-01-11 18:16:06 <gribble> Coinjoin Status: current session is open for 5 more minutes. There are currently something like 7 transactions in the pot. The most popular output value is 0.15. To participate, visit https://www.wpsoftware.net/coinjoin/ or http://xnpjsvp7crbzlj3w.onion/ .
 833 2014-01-11 18:16:38 <jakov> oh nice
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 835 2014-01-11 18:18:01 <jakov> "something like"
 836 2014-01-11 18:18:32 KillYourTV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 837 2014-01-11 18:18:51 <jakov> so i should make an unspent output with 0.15btc + 3000 satoshi ?
 838 2014-01-11 18:19:13 KillYourTV has joined
 839 2014-01-11 18:19:35 <shamoon> sipa: Luke-Jr https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8e2f9fc9055b4c51974e
 840 2014-01-11 18:19:39 <shamoon> what would something like that indicate?
 841 2014-01-11 18:19:49 <gmaxwell> jakov: you take whatever inputs you have, and create a transaction creating one or more .15 btc outputs and a 3000e-8 output and whatever change and hand it to the webpage
 842 2014-01-11 18:20:01 <gmaxwell> jakov: but its about to close so probably too late unless you're very quick about it. :)
 843 2014-01-11 18:20:04 justanotheruser has joined
 844 2014-01-11 18:20:23 <jakov> ill do it next time, id like to do it slowly to not fuck it up
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 846 2014-01-11 18:20:36 <jakov> spend much more than planned on miners fees or something
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 848 2014-01-11 18:20:56 <gmaxwell> jakov: yea, the site itself prevents you from making that particular mistake.
 849 2014-01-11 18:21:04 <jakov> i presume ;;cj-bump would open a dos vulnerability
 850 2014-01-11 18:21:06 <gmaxwell> you do have time during signing to review it though.
 851 2014-01-11 18:21:24 <gmaxwell> jakov: it increases the risk that people forget about it or have to leave without signing.
 852 2014-01-11 18:21:42 <jakov> ok
 853 2014-01-11 18:21:43 shesek has joined
 854 2014-01-11 18:21:52 <jakov> nah its gone
 855 2014-01-11 18:22:29 <jakov> in the signing phase now i guess, wouldnt mind seeing the txid later when its done
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 857 2014-01-11 18:22:54 <gmaxwell> you can see some past ones.
 858 2014-01-11 18:23:34 <petertodd> andytoshi: oh, you haven't added SIGHASH_NONE/ANYONECANPAY yet?
 859 2014-01-11 18:23:47 <petertodd> andytoshi: I thought you did for dust
 860 2014-01-11 18:24:16 <gmaxwell> jakov: e.g. https://blockchain.info/tx/a94e83ea68716aeccd82dbe3e42e0eaf472ebb2897d974f399a5f71bcf6d7ffc
 861 2014-01-11 18:24:24 <jakov> ty
 862 2014-01-11 18:24:34 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 863 2014-01-11 18:24:37 <petertodd> andytoshi: tried to add this tx: http://0bin.net/paste/IGGCSBnw5Y6tqRQq#HOFr0QFP6Xfjc8jzgoaDRSpeiS95D2IK1dqI+0lQSqE=
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 866 2014-01-11 18:27:49 <jakov> gmaxwell so in that tx you linked, the addresses 0.18991BTC 0.6497BTC were change addresses?
 867 2014-01-11 18:27:58 <jakov> or fees to the coinjoiner
 868 2014-01-11 18:28:35 <gmaxwell> jakov: presumably. Thats assuming that none of the CJ users were also transfering value at the same time.
 869 2014-01-11 18:30:26 <gmaxwell> petertodd: shouldn't have shared that txn here in a pastbin as someone might have sent it and sent the coins off to that 1ForFeesAndDonationsSpendHerdtWbWy blackhole. No worries: I've decreased the chances of that...
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 872 2014-01-11 18:31:16 <andytoshi> petertodd: oh, cool
 873 2014-01-11 18:31:30 <andytoshi> my gtk tool doesn't detect when it needs to sign yet
 874 2014-01-11 18:32:01 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: doh
 875 2014-01-11 18:33:21 <andytoshi> i'll bug you guys in a couple hours, it's close
 876 2014-01-11 18:34:25 eoss has joined
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 878 2014-01-11 18:35:59 <petertodd> andytoshi: cool
 879 2014-01-11 18:36:02 <andytoshi> here is a screenshot: http://imgur.com/3iaPRSz
 880 2014-01-11 18:36:30 <petertodd> andytoshi: nice!
 881 2014-01-11 18:36:32 <andytoshi> (i need to add more information about the current joiner status)
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 884 2014-01-11 18:39:42 <jakov> just so i totally understand, this address https://blockchain.info/address/1H1aQNKRwSHQhQy2SKhM5W3g7Ee9CEX6sQ has just one unspent output with txid 0f84e92566..
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 886 2014-01-11 18:40:55 <jakov> and vout would be 0.006
 887 2014-01-11 18:41:01 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: should probably have a tree view so that it's easy to spend all the coins connected to a single scriptpubkey at once.
 888 2014-01-11 18:41:18 <jakov> or 600000, the number of satoshi
 889 2014-01-11 18:41:43 <gmaxwell> jakov: you linked to an address, not a transaction— so your questions are kinda confusing.
 890 2014-01-11 18:41:57 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: oh, good call
 891 2014-01-11 18:42:00 <gmaxwell> also, we need to find something to link in here that isn't always forcing "US DOLLARS" display.
 892 2014-01-11 18:42:26 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: thats how the coincointrol thing in bitcoin QT works.
 893 2014-01-11 18:42:33 <andytoshi> blockexplorer is caught up again
 894 2014-01-11 18:42:44 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 895 2014-01-11 18:42:45 <jakov> the address has just one tx going to it
 896 2014-01-11 18:42:51 * andytoshi ought to open bitcoin-qt one of these days
 897 2014-01-11 18:43:03 * sipa too
 898 2014-01-11 18:43:37 * jakov should download it at some point
 899 2014-01-11 18:44:06 <jakov> electrum has the console for making raw tx though
 900 2014-01-11 18:44:15 <lechuga__> sipa: is bitcoin-seeder what supports the DNS seeding in bitcoind?
 901 2014-01-11 18:44:32 <lechuga__> s/in/for/g
 902 2014-01-11 18:44:34 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: does your tool dumpprivatekey the involved keys so it will have them for signing? or do you need to be around to provide the password when its time to sign?
 903 2014-01-11 18:44:40 <sipa> lechuga__: it's one implementation
 904 2014-01-11 18:45:20 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: you'll need to be around
 905 2014-01-11 18:45:28 <shamoon> can someone explain this insanely complex testnet transaction to me please? 0ce7e5238fbdb6c086cf1b384b21b827e91cc23f360417265874a5a0d86ce367
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 907 2014-01-11 18:45:40 <shamoon> the vout's are "non standard"
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 909 2014-01-11 18:45:56 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: well, the UI is not really set in stone, it would be better for usability to dumpprivkey
 910 2014-01-11 18:46:25 <gmaxwell> shamoon: looks like a testcase.
 911 2014-01-11 18:46:29 <andytoshi> the question is, am i making people uncomfortable
 912 2014-01-11 18:46:39 <shamoon> gmaxwell: so are most of those coins sent useless?
 913 2014-01-11 18:46:58 <gmaxwell> shamoon: why would they be useless?
 914 2014-01-11 18:47:02 <shamoon> who got them?
 915 2014-01-11 18:47:15 <sipa> shamoon: forget that bitcoins are sent to a person
 916 2014-01-11 18:47:17 <sipa> or to a key
 917 2014-01-11 18:47:26 <shamoon> well - i mean wwhat is the recipient?
 918 2014-01-11 18:47:28 <gmaxwell> yea, man, that misunderstanding is so attractive.
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 920 2014-01-11 18:47:35 <shamoon> 7.6685 were sent
 921 2014-01-11 18:47:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: they are sent to a script, which defines the conditions for it to be consumed later
 922 2014-01-11 18:47:43 <sipa> eh
 923 2014-01-11 18:47:43 <gmaxwell> shamoon: bitcoin transactions don't really have _a_ 'recipient'.
 924 2014-01-11 18:47:46 <sipa> shamoon: they are sent to a script, which defines the conditions for it to be consumed later
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 926 2014-01-11 18:48:02 <sipa> usually, that script says "someone who can sign with the key corresponding to address A"
 927 2014-01-11 18:48:09 <sipa> but it can be much broader than that
 928 2014-01-11 18:48:17 <shamoon> okay, so the first one: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/0ce7e5238fbdb6c086cf1b384b21b827e91cc23f360417265874a5a0d86ce367
 929 2014-01-11 18:48:18 <shamoon> the first output
 930 2014-01-11 18:48:25 <shamoon> is being sent to: OP_NUMEQUAL
 931 2014-01-11 18:48:44 <gmaxwell> shamoon: it has a scriptPubKey of OP_NUMEQUAL. Correct.
 932 2014-01-11 18:48:46 <sipa> so, anyone who can provide two identical numbers can spend that script
 933 2014-01-11 18:48:52 <sipa> eh, spend that output
 934 2014-01-11 18:48:55 <shamoon> any 2 numbers?
 935 2014-01-11 18:49:00 <sipa> any 2 numbers
 936 2014-01-11 18:49:24 <shamoon> okay - so how would i spend that?
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 938 2014-01-11 18:49:50 <sipa> you'd construct a transaction with a txin which has a scriptSig "<number1> <number2>"
 939 2014-01-11 18:50:00 <gmaxwell> write a transaction where the scriptsig pushes two numbers. you can do it just by manually tweaking the hex of a createrawtransaction output.
 940 2014-01-11 18:50:02 <sipa> where number1 and number2 are equal
 941 2014-01-11 18:50:16 <shamoon> interesting
 942 2014-01-11 18:50:23 <shamoon> is there a list of all of the paremeters somewhere?
 943 2014-01-11 18:50:27 <Luke-Jr> shamoon: nothing special
 944 2014-01-11 18:50:29 <sipa> ;;google bitcoin script
 945 2014-01-11 18:50:29 <gribble> Script - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script>; Contracts - Bitcoin: <http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/contracts>; BIP 0016 - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016>
 946 2014-01-11 18:50:38 <shamoon> awesome
 947 2014-01-11 18:50:39 <shamoon> thanks
 948 2014-01-11 18:51:01 <sipa> note that it's not entirely up to date, and potentially lacking some details
 949 2014-01-11 18:51:33 <lechuga__> i need to get a better handle on the script language
 950 2014-01-11 18:52:09 <lechuga__> wish there was a game i could play on my phone to produce crazy txns and try to figure out how to claim them :)
 951 2014-01-11 18:52:29 <Luke-Jr> shamoon: addresses, destinations, etc are really an abstraction on top of things
 952 2014-01-11 18:52:38 <shamoon> so complex
 953 2014-01-11 18:52:52 <Luke-Jr> lechuga__: lol
 954 2014-01-11 18:53:18 <Luke-Jr> lechuga__: more fun to try to write an automated solver
 955 2014-01-11 18:53:25 <Luke-Jr> :D
 956 2014-01-11 18:53:29 <lechuga__> that is interesting
 957 2014-01-11 18:54:09 <lechuga__> i feel liek im always going to be perpetually behind u guys
 958 2014-01-11 18:54:37 <lechuga__> i guess i should be happy if i can at least shorten the gap
 959 2014-01-11 18:54:42 <justanotheruser1> sipa: Is there an up to date list anywhere but the source?
 960 2014-01-11 18:55:42 <sipa> changes the past two years are in BIPs
 961 2014-01-11 18:55:48 <sipa> before that, source code, indeed
 962 2014-01-11 18:57:42 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: you could make keeping the private keys a checkbox you can set at submit time "automatically check and sign transaction when ready"
 963 2014-01-11 18:59:51 jcrubino has joined
 964 2014-01-11 19:00:04 <jcrubino> can anyone explain this testnet tx http://testnet.btclook.com/txn/6cc2c832e3449745b735ba19309442ce19a5bbca40bb7bed1d8a46f495b17c97# ?
 965 2014-01-11 19:00:16 <jcrubino> I made it using the rawtransactions routines
 966 2014-01-11 19:00:54 <jcrubino> my intest was to mix all inputs from listunspent by inlucding them in the createrawtransaction with one output
 967 2014-01-11 19:01:18 <jcrubino> the out put was supposed to be for 1.09870000
 968 2014-01-11 19:01:24 <jcrubino> but all the coins in the wallet got sent
 969 2014-01-11 19:01:52 <sipa> you need to add a change address if you want change
 970 2014-01-11 19:02:02 <sipa> otherwise, the difference between outputs and inputs becomes fee
 971 2014-01-11 19:04:08 <sipa> jcrubino: not sure how you intended to only have a 1.0987 output, if you were consuming all coins in your wallet
 972 2014-01-11 19:04:14 <sipa> what did you expect to happen with the rest?
 973 2014-01-11 19:04:23 <sipa> (just like to understand the thinking)
 974 2014-01-11 19:04:27 <lechuga__> hmm just reading the scripts which redeemed those crazy txns is very helpful
 975 2014-01-11 19:04:58 <jcrubino> Its not often i user raw-transactions and I forgot the change address
 976 2014-01-11 19:05:29 Applicat_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 977 2014-01-11 19:05:39 <jcrubino> lechuga__: how are you doing that, via the site or via bitcoind?
 978 2014-01-11 19:05:42 <gmaxwell> Did you just forget one, or did you not know one was needed?
 979 2014-01-11 19:06:04 <lechuga__> sorry i was speking baout the txns shamoon dumped
 980 2014-01-11 19:06:07 <jcrubino> gmaxwell: I have read about it but it isn't until there is a little pain that there is memory
 981 2014-01-11 19:06:16 <lechuga__> i was using blockexplorer
 982 2014-01-11 19:06:32 <gmaxwell> sipa: perfect! the posted parallel pull patch passed pulltester.
 983 2014-01-11 19:06:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: it doesn't do parallel downloads (well, it ends up accidentally doing that sometimes)
 984 2014-01-11 19:07:06 <sipa> but yes, wiii1
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 986 2014-01-11 19:07:12 <sipa> wiii!
 987 2014-01-11 19:08:02 <gmaxwell> how does 'too slow' work, e.g. if I'm on slow link?
 988 2014-01-11 19:09:02 <sipa> at least one block in flight, every in-flight block at least 2 minutes ago requested, and no block received in the past two minutes
 989 2014-01-11 19:09:20 lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 990 2014-01-11 19:09:22 <sipa> eh, no block received in the last minute
 991 2014-01-11 19:09:27 <jcrubino> sipa: I understood the  format as createrawtransaction [{"txid":txid,"vout":n},...] {address:amount,...}, the wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Raw_Transactions) should probably add the change address
 992 2014-01-11 19:09:44 <sipa> jcrubino: a 'change address' concept doesn't exist at that level
 993 2014-01-11 19:09:50 <sipa> it's just a regular output
 994 2014-01-11 19:10:21 <sipa> that said, there was a suggested to be able to specify a special 'change' destination for an output, which would automatically pick a new address for you, and send the change there
 995 2014-01-11 19:10:58 <sipa> gmaxwell: so if you on average are able to receive one block per minute, the disconnect logic shouldn't trigger
 996 2014-01-11 19:11:12 <sipa> (well, for both sender and receiver)
 997 2014-01-11 19:11:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: I wonder if every time it triggers it shouldn't increase the trigger threshold, so that a suffienctly slow link doesn't find itself constantly disconnecting?
 998 2014-01-11 19:11:37 <jcrubino> sipa: so how can I reasonably create raw-transactions with rpc?
 999 2014-01-11 19:11:48 <gmaxwell> (if so, it could probably start with a lower threshold)
1000 2014-01-11 19:11:53 <lechuga__> has anyone actually written a scriptpubkey solver?
1001 2014-01-11 19:12:14 <gmaxwell> jcrubino: by using createrawtransaction.
1002 2014-01-11 19:12:18 <sipa> jcrubino: call getnewaddress and send the change there
1003 2014-01-11 19:12:26 <jcrubino> that is how I created the tx and it moved all the coins in the wallet
1004 2014-01-11 19:12:33 <saizai> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20362/how-can-i-tell-whether-transactions-were-not-made-via-bitpay-coinbase
1005 2014-01-11 19:12:34 <sipa> well you didn't include a change
1006 2014-01-11 19:12:46 <gmaxwell> sipa: ( or getrawchangeaddress )
1007 2014-01-11 19:12:56 <sipa> gmaxwell: does that exist?
1008 2014-01-11 19:13:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: in git at least
1009 2014-01-11 19:13:11 <sipa> jcrubino: the basic rule is that the difference between outputs and inputs is fees
1010 2014-01-11 19:13:23 <sipa> jcrubino: if you use createrawtransaction, you know the value of all inputs and all outputs
1011 2014-01-11 19:13:25 shesek has joined
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1013 2014-01-11 19:13:42 <sipa> if you have more value in input than you intend to send somewhere, you need to send it back to yourself
1014 2014-01-11 19:13:55 <jcrubino> how do I specify the change address?
1015 2014-01-11 19:13:58 <gmaxwell> the createrawtransaction rpc doesn't inherently know the value of all the inputs— it works even for inputs its never seen before (which can be useful).
1016 2014-01-11 19:14:03 <sipa> jcrubino: it's a normal output!
1017 2014-01-11 19:14:07 <jcrubino> got it
1018 2014-01-11 19:14:15 <jcrubino> so its just another address to send to
1019 2014-01-11 19:14:16 <sipa> there's nothing special about it, except you use an address of your own
1020 2014-01-11 19:14:19 <sipa> indeed
1021 2014-01-11 19:14:23 <jcrubino> ok
1022 2014-01-11 19:14:48 <jcrubino> I am going to clarify that in the wiki sooner or later
1023 2014-01-11 19:14:54 <sipa> please do!
1024 2014-01-11 19:15:01 <jcrubino> thanks
1025 2014-01-11 19:18:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: 1 block per minute (and it should be able to go down to 0.5 block per minute for some periods of time) is only 133 kbit/s ...
1026 2014-01-11 19:19:35 <sipa> (i don't disagree that hardcoded constants here are a Really Bad Idea(tm), but this is hopefully temporary anyway)
1027 2014-01-11 19:27:46 <lechuga__> scriptpubkey is kinda cool
1028 2014-01-11 19:28:03 <lechuga__> having the forsight to put it in v1 of bitcoin is pretty impressive
1029 2014-01-11 19:28:15 <sipa> in v0 you mean :
1030 2014-01-11 19:28:17 <lechuga__> seems like it couldve functioned for the most part without it
1031 2014-01-11 19:28:24 <lechuga__> tru
1032 2014-01-11 19:28:28 <sipa> it certainly could have functioned without
1033 2014-01-11 19:29:57 <sipa> ;;later tell jgarzik your bootstrap.dat bitcointalk post still says "through height 250000"
1034 2014-01-11 19:29:57 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1035 2014-01-11 19:30:43 <jgarzik> sipa, fixed
1036 2014-01-11 19:30:56 <sipa> it also mentions 237000 a bit further...
1037 2014-01-11 19:31:08 <sipa> 238000, sorry
1038 2014-01-11 19:31:29 <sipa> ;;blocks
1039 2014-01-11 19:31:30 <gribble> 279949
1040 2014-01-11 19:31:55 <sipa> once we hit 281016 (2016 blocks after the torrent), i suggest we add a new checkpoint too
1041 2014-01-11 19:32:03 <jgarzik> agree
1042 2014-01-11 19:32:13 <sipa> should be in a week
1043 2014-01-11 19:32:26 <jgarzik> Bitcoin blockchain torrent updated, 70% of previous bootstrap.dat is re-used.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145386.0
1044 2014-01-11 19:33:46 <jcrubino> jgarzik: how often is it updated?
1045 2014-01-11 19:33:57 <sipa> "whenever deemed necessary"
1046 2014-01-11 19:36:50 <jcrubino> sipa: how tough would it to automate a monthly or every two month update?
1047 2014-01-11 19:37:28 shamoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1048 2014-01-11 19:37:40 <sipa> easy enough, but i'd rather focus on fixing the block download mechanism in bitcoind itself, so it doesn't need such workarounds
1049 2014-01-11 19:41:03 <jgarzik> jcrubino, +1 what sipa said.  The torrent, in fact, should -not- be updated too often.  The blockchain data is pretty much static.  Each new torrent simply adds data onto the end of the old torrent.  If you update the torrent too often, you lose seeders.
1050 2014-01-11 19:41:38 <jcrubino> got it
1051 2014-01-11 19:41:38 <sipa> in that light, see #3514
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1053 2014-01-11 19:43:54 <lechuga__> i wonder if there would be many more nodes if bitcoin supported nat traversal
1054 2014-01-11 19:44:23 <andytoshi> what's the best way to tell over RPC whether or not the wallet is currently unlocked?
1055 2014-01-11 19:44:47 jakov has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1056 2014-01-11 19:45:15 <jgarzik> andytoshi, getinfo has unlocked timeout, IIRC
1057 2014-01-11 19:46:28 <jgarzik> sipa, yep, had queued #3514 up for reading. looked tasty.
1058 2014-01-11 19:46:58 <andytoshi> jgarzik: it does indeed, thanks!
1059 2014-01-11 19:50:37 <jgarzik> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uz6mp/bitcoin_blockchain_torrent_updated_to_block/
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1066 2014-01-11 19:57:24 <jgarzik> excellent.  a few peers on the new torrent appeared with 70% completion.  makes seeding the new torrent quite easy.
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1068 2014-01-11 19:59:09 <lechuga__> jgarzik: what r you doing exactly? is this so nodes can get the blockchain via bittorrent?
1069 2014-01-11 20:00:10 <sipa> yes
1070 2014-01-11 20:00:13 <sipa> see link
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1075 2014-01-11 20:00:53 <lechuga__> interesting
1076 2014-01-11 20:01:39 orperelman has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1078 2014-01-11 20:02:22 <lechuga__> is bitcoind going to link with libtorrent and manage this automatically?
1079 2014-01-11 20:02:23 toffoo has joined
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1081 2014-01-11 20:03:05 <sipa> no
1082 2014-01-11 20:03:16 <lechuga__> is that a bad idea?
1083 2014-01-11 20:03:33 <sipa> it's a workaround for the fact that the block downloading logic in bitcoind is crappy
1084 2014-01-11 20:03:41 <sipa> if we fix that, there's no need to use bittorrent for this
1085 2014-01-11 20:04:04 <lechuga__> but downloading a lot of blocks efficiently is something theyve solved already
1086 2014-01-11 20:05:20 <sipa> it's not sequential (which means you first have to download everything before validating it), it doesn't use the knowledge of block validity we have
1087 2014-01-11 20:05:31 <sipa> and we already need a mechanism to distribute blocks anyway
1088 2014-01-11 20:06:04 tacotime has joined
1089 2014-01-11 20:06:29 <lechuga__> libtorrent doesnt have a --contiguous switch? :)
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1113 2014-01-11 20:26:50 <lechuga__> noob question: can i run a real node while a testnet node is running as the same user? it looks like yes but im not %100 sure of the state segregation in ~/.bitcoin
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1116 2014-01-11 20:27:48 <maaku> lechuga__: yes
1117 2014-01-11 20:27:53 <lechuga__> k thx
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1160 2014-01-11 21:26:04 <zone117x> gmaxwell: is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=6.0 the most appropriate board to post my node stratum server?
1161 2014-01-11 21:26:44 <zone117x> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=42.0 doesnt seem right for the server software
1162 2014-01-11 21:28:34 <kanzure> is this node-stratum?
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1166 2014-01-11 21:40:50 <kinlo> zone117x: I'd recommend https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=14.0
1167 2014-01-11 21:41:28 <lechuga__> has any1 completely implmented a node in html5?
1168 2014-01-11 21:41:53 <lechuga__> storing block chain would be hard but could use blockchain.info maybe?
1169 2014-01-11 21:42:27 <lechuga__> dont see much of a point to it
1170 2014-01-11 21:42:33 <sipa> is html5 turing complete?
1171 2014-01-11 21:42:39 <lechuga__> would be a hell of a learning exercise
1172 2014-01-11 21:43:07 <lechuga__> sipa: heck yeah
1173 2014-01-11 21:43:22 <sipa> are you talking about javascript or html?
1174 2014-01-11 21:43:26 <lechuga__> javascript
1175 2014-01-11 21:43:46 <kinlo> isn't javascript a part of html5?
1176 2014-01-11 21:44:08 <sipa> orly?
1177 2014-01-11 21:44:13 <lechuga__> ya
1178 2014-01-11 21:44:19 <lechuga__> well
1179 2014-01-11 21:44:27 <lechuga__> im not sure what the pedantic delineation is
1180 2014-01-11 21:44:34 <lechuga__> but effectively yes its part of html5
1181 2014-01-11 21:45:20 <sipa> ok then
1182 2014-01-11 21:45:25 <lechuga__> :)
1183 2014-01-11 21:45:59 <lechuga__> wish i could think of 1 practical use for a browser-based bitcoind
1184 2014-01-11 21:46:03 <lechuga__> then id be inclined to do it
1185 2014-01-11 21:46:31 <kinlo> wasn't one of the selling points of html5 to standardize the javascript interaction with the dom and such so js would be more cross-platform ? :)
1186 2014-01-11 21:46:56 <lechuga__> yeah cross platform wrt browser
1187 2014-01-11 21:47:02 <sipa> lechuga__: i think reimplementing a fully bug-for-bug compatible bitcoind is pretty much impossible with current engineering standards
1188 2014-01-11 21:47:13 <sipa> lechuga__: let alone doing it in javascript
1189 2014-01-11 21:47:34 <kinlo> sipa: don't underestimate javascript
1190 2014-01-11 21:47:35 <lechuga__> why is that?
1191 2014-01-11 21:47:48 <sipa> s/javascript/differing language/
1192 2014-01-11 21:49:22 <maaku> kinlo: it's hard to get bug-for-bug compatability when you also have to contend with differing behavior between js vendors...
1193 2014-01-11 21:49:25 <lechuga__> you think bitcoind is just too complex?
1194 2014-01-11 21:49:50 <lechuga__> does it really need to have all of the same bugs? :)
1195 2014-01-11 21:49:53 <sipa> YES
1196 2014-01-11 21:50:00 <maaku> yes, yes it does
1197 2014-01-11 21:50:04 <sipa> no, i think bitcoind is unique in the fact that implementing a full node requires being compatible with every other node on the node... consistency is more important than correctness
1198 2014-01-11 21:50:07 <kinlo> maaku: nowadays differences between js vendors is like differences between compilers... they exist, but they are no longer that big
1199 2014-01-11 21:50:15 <maaku> see: march 2013
1200 2014-01-11 21:50:19 <sipa> and i believe this principle makes it pretty much impossible to correctly reimplement it from scratch
1201 2014-01-11 21:50:22 <lechuga__> most differences in js ar ein higher level APIs
1202 2014-01-11 21:50:41 <sipa> which doesn't mean that there is a problem with implementing a p2p node in other languages
1203 2014-01-11 21:50:50 <sipa> just don't try to imitate the network consistency part
1204 2014-01-11 21:51:22 <sipa> and yes, bitcoind is bloated, too complex, and not cleanly written
1205 2014-01-11 21:51:44 <lechuga__> eh ive seen worse codebases on all of those accounts
1206 2014-01-11 21:52:00 <sipa> i'm sure about that :D
1207 2014-01-11 21:52:03 <lechuga__> haha
1208 2014-01-11 21:53:40 <maaku> it's far less bloated and unclean than it used to be
1209 2014-01-11 21:53:53 <sipa> i'd say it's more bloated and more clean :)
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1221 2014-01-11 22:24:10 <DBordello> Does bitcoinj not implement a full node?
1222 2014-01-11 22:24:42 <sipa> it has a mode where it does, but afaik it's not complete
1223 2014-01-11 22:24:49 <DBordello> (nevermind, apparently it doesn't by default)
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1225 2014-01-11 22:26:38 <DBordello> What about btcd, implemented in go
1226 2014-01-11 22:26:57 <sipa> that's a full node implementation, yes
1227 2014-01-11 22:27:15 <kinlo> how complete is that btw?
1228 2014-01-11 22:27:30 <kinlo> I've looked at the source, but it wasn't fully released yet
1229 2014-01-11 22:27:35 <sipa> gmaxwell probably is more up to date
1230 2014-01-11 22:27:56 <kinlo> sipa: are you going to fosdem btw?
1231 2014-01-11 22:28:05 <sipa> uncertain, but i doubt it
1232 2014-01-11 22:28:26 <kinlo> kinda surprised not to see anything about bitcoin
1233 2014-01-11 22:31:29 enodios has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1237 2014-01-11 22:36:38 <sipa> damn, i was surprised to see 0.150ms/txin for verification when running under valgrind
1238 2014-01-11 22:36:57 <sipa> as that's much faster than what i believed openssl could do, running natively
1239 2014-01-11 22:37:01 pierre` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1240 2014-01-11 22:37:10 <sipa> ... turns out signature verification is disabled...
1241 2014-01-11 22:37:11 <gmaxwell> cached
1242 2014-01-11 22:37:15 <gmaxwell> yea. that too.
1243 2014-01-11 22:38:07 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1244 2014-01-11 22:39:26 <sipa> valgrind is so slow that stalled download detection is triggering, just while processing orphans
1245 2014-01-11 22:41:06 <lechuga__> sipa: are you just using valgrind to profile?
1246 2014-01-11 22:41:29 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1247 2014-01-11 22:41:31 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1248 2014-01-11 22:41:31 <sipa> no, to detect memory problems
1249 2014-01-11 22:41:39 <lechuga__> ah k
1250 2014-01-11 22:41:45 <sipa> mostly a sanity check before submitting a pullreq
1251 2014-01-11 22:41:50 Hasimir has joined
1252 2014-01-11 22:45:08 evan82 has joined
1253 2014-01-11 22:45:25 <evan82> Is there a list somewhere of all of the active inputs?
1254 2014-01-11 22:45:31 <evan82> in the bitcoin source
1255 2014-01-11 22:45:44 <sipa> "all active inputs" ?
1256 2014-01-11 22:46:06 <evan82> Yeah, does it keep track of all of the addresses that have value assigned to them
1257 2014-01-11 22:46:28 <sipa> no
1258 2014-01-11 22:46:39 <sipa> it keeps track of all unspent transaction outputs
1259 2014-01-11 22:46:47 <sipa> but they are not indexed by or aggregated by address
1260 2014-01-11 22:46:54 <evan82> oh, maybe that's what I'm looking for
1261 2014-01-11 22:46:59 <sipa> (addresses are a high-level concept that isn't useful for verification)
1262 2014-01-11 22:47:01 <evan82> where is that in the codebase?
1263 2014-01-11 22:47:23 <sipa> see txdb
1264 2014-01-11 22:47:29 <evan82> thx!
1265 2014-01-11 22:47:32 <sipa> that's the database interface
1266 2014-01-11 22:47:42 <sipa> coins.h contains the data structure definitions
1267 2014-01-11 22:48:02 <sipa> and there's a runtime cache on top of it, see pcoinsTip in main
1268 2014-01-11 22:48:37 <evan82> cool thanks
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1282 2014-01-11 23:38:21 <shamoon> getrawtransaction 4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b 1 yields no information about this transaction
1283 2014-01-11 23:38:21 c0rw1n has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1284 2014-01-11 23:38:22 <shamoon> for some reason
1285 2014-01-11 23:38:31 <shamoon> other transactions work
1286 2014-01-11 23:38:34 n0n0 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1287 2014-01-11 23:38:36 <shamoon> but that's the first tx in the testnet block chain
1288 2014-01-11 23:38:54 c0rw1n has joined
1289 2014-01-11 23:39:03 elgrecoFL has quit (Excess Flood)
1290 2014-01-11 23:39:12 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1291 2014-01-11 23:40:03 <sipa> shamoon: the genesis coinbase transaction is not processed anywhere
1292 2014-01-11 23:40:07 <gmaxwell> shamoon: the transaction created in the genesis block doesn't really exist as far as the system is concerned.
1293 2014-01-11 23:40:51 <shamoon> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/rawtx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b
1294 2014-01-11 23:40:57 <shamoon> how did they get that raw transaction?
1295 2014-01-11 23:41:03 <sipa> it's part of the blockchain
1296 2014-01-11 23:41:06 Polyatomic has joined
1297 2014-01-11 23:41:24 <sipa> just not used really, so bitcoind doesn't index it
1298 2014-01-11 23:41:36 <sipa> its output can also not be spent either, for example
1299 2014-01-11 23:41:43 elgrecoFL has joined
1300 2014-01-11 23:41:55 <shamoon> if it's part of the blockchain, then how can i view it?
1301 2014-01-11 23:42:12 <sipa> it's hardcoded in the bitcoind client
1302 2014-01-11 23:42:16 <sipa> or you can look at the block files
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1304 2014-01-11 23:43:11 <shamoon> i see
1305 2014-01-11 23:43:12 <shamoon> thanks sipa
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1308 2014-01-11 23:45:16 <Polyatomic> bitcoind 0.8.6-saucy : Should I hear a beep when receiving coin. Im sure I heard a beep ?
1309 2014-01-11 23:45:32 <sipa> ?
1310 2014-01-11 23:45:37 <sipa> there is no beeping...
1311 2014-01-11 23:45:45 <Polyatomic> ok
1312 2014-01-11 23:46:01 <sipa> unless you pass -walletnotify=beep :P
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1321 2014-01-11 23:59:12 <swulf--> sipa: around?
1322 2014-01-11 23:59:36 <sipa> no, i'm quite non-around
1323 2014-01-11 23:59:41 <sipa> :)
1324 2014-01-11 23:59:44 <swulf--> ah, too bad :P
1325 2014-01-11 23:59:51 <swulf--> would love to know what you think of my new site, bip32.org