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  34 2014-01-20 00:44:04 <nsh> <perhapstired> Does the bitcoin-qt client always select from the oldest input and the oldest address when sending bitcoin?
  35 2014-01-20 00:44:46 <sipa> no
  36 2014-01-20 00:45:03 <sipa> it picks whatever it can use, though it prefers coins that have 6 confirmations or more
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  42 2014-01-20 00:50:21 <d33tah> hi fellows
  43 2014-01-20 00:50:27 <d33tah> the current git version crashes for me:
  44 2014-01-20 00:50:30 <d33tah> bitcoin-qt: key.cpp:134: {anonymous}::CECKey::CECKey(): Assertion `pkey != __null' failed.
  45 2014-01-20 00:50:44 <d33tah> compiled with noncompatible db, asked me for data directory, chose defaults, it crashed with SIGABRT.
  46 2014-01-20 00:50:47 <d33tah> fedora 20.
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  48 2014-01-20 00:54:05 <Luke-Jr> nsh: "oldest address"?
  49 2014-01-20 00:54:18 <nsh> (no idea)
  50 2014-01-20 00:54:23 b4epoche has joined
  51 2014-01-20 00:54:23 <nsh> (copied from #bitcoin)
  52 2014-01-20 00:54:32 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, he means oldest output i assume
  53 2014-01-20 00:54:46 <phantomcircuit> which isn't entirely illogical due to the way tx fees are calculated
  54 2014-01-20 00:56:08 <sipa> d33tah: you're linked against a fedora openssl that doesn't have support for the secp256k1 curve that bitcoin uses
  55 2014-01-20 00:56:18 Application has joined
  56 2014-01-20 00:56:29 <d33tah> sipa: i see. thanks for info.
  57 2014-01-20 00:56:35 <d33tah> that sucks. :/
  58 2014-01-20 00:56:47 <d33tah> could this error message be made a bit more verbose?
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  63 2014-01-20 00:59:21 <sipa> there's openssl packages that provide that curve
  64 2014-01-20 00:59:38 <sipa> but i don't know much about fedora
  65 2014-01-20 00:59:59 <Luke-Jr> I do agree a better error message would be nice, though :P
  66 2014-01-20 01:00:19 <sipa> yeah
  67 2014-01-20 01:00:25 <sipa> should be easy to do
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  92 2014-01-20 01:25:15 <SpartanLB> Wow
  93 2014-01-20 01:25:20 <SpartanLB> registering is a pain in the butt
  94 2014-01-20 01:27:00 <d33tah> guys
  95 2014-01-20 01:27:01 <d33tah> just wondering
  96 2014-01-20 01:27:20 <d33tah> i wanna copy my encrypted wallet, with all the addreses but one
  97 2014-01-20 01:27:44 <d33tah> is it going to be simplest to just set up a new encrypted wallet and transfer the money there?
  98 2014-01-20 01:27:49 <Luke-Jr> need some assistance
  99 2014-01-20 01:28:04 <Luke-Jr> sent a transaction, rather large, via RPC sendmany; got an error, but can't see the message
 100 2014-01-20 01:28:14 <Luke-Jr> the wallet has the transaction, and gettransaction works
 101 2014-01-20 01:28:21 <Luke-Jr> but getrawtransaction does not, and it seems to not have been relayed
 102 2014-01-20 01:28:31 <d33tah> and about the new wallets - they start off unencrypted, right? if i encrypt my wallet, will the private keys leak to the filesystem?
 103 2014-01-20 01:29:24 <Luke-Jr> 2014-01-20 01:16:48 ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : ignoring transaction 967a97276d2d07055017180f08c92fc7465b2dc222bc36489de8bd35476711d5 with blacklisted output (CHBS)
 104 2014-01-20 01:29:26 <Luke-Jr> doh
 105 2014-01-20 01:29:27 <Luke-Jr> nm
 106 2014-01-20 01:29:30 <sipa> d33tah: when you encrypt a wallet, its keypool is flushed
 107 2014-01-20 01:29:50 <sipa> d33tah: so all new keys you get afterwards are ones that never touched disk in unencrypted form
 108 2014-01-20 01:29:51 Ursium has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 110 2014-01-20 01:30:11 <d33tah> sipa: and the ones that were there already?
 111 2014-01-20 01:30:22 <sipa> those remain, obviously
 112 2014-01-20 01:30:28 <d33tah> i mean, doesn't the wallet start with some keys?
 113 2014-01-20 01:30:36 <sipa> yes
 114 2014-01-20 01:30:47 <d33tah> so i need to remove them.
 115 2014-01-20 01:30:50 <sipa> why
 116 2014-01-20 01:31:02 <sipa> did anyone send money to them?
 117 2014-01-20 01:31:24 <d33tah> noone did
 118 2014-01-20 01:31:31 <d33tah> but i'd not risk using an unencrypted key
 119 2014-01-20 01:31:33 roconnor has joined
 120 2014-01-20 01:31:43 <sipa> did you use any of these addresses?
 121 2014-01-20 01:31:49 <d33tah> didn't
 122 2014-01-20 01:31:50 <sipa> did you even *see* any of those addresses?
 123 2014-01-20 01:32:00 <d33tah> not sure, because we're theorizing atm.
 124 2014-01-20 01:32:17 <sipa> if you create a new wallet, and don't use it for anything, and then encrypt it, there is no risk
 125 2014-01-20 01:32:27 <d33tah> i see. thanks.
 126 2014-01-20 01:32:35 <d33tah> btw, sipa, are you one of the core devs?
 127 2014-01-20 01:32:38 <sipa> yes
 128 2014-01-20 01:32:41 <d33tah> bitcoin.org has an issue.
 129 2014-01-20 01:32:51 <d33tah> i mailed Gavin about it already
 130 2014-01-20 01:33:16 <sipa> what's the problem?
 131 2014-01-20 01:33:30 <sipa> (not that i'm involved with the website in any way)
 132 2014-01-20 01:33:32 <d33tah> sipa: the issue is that you can't really check the checksums of the archives over SSL. there's no HTTPS website linked.
 133 2014-01-20 01:33:42 hmsimha has joined
 134 2014-01-20 01:33:43 <Luke-Jr> …
 135 2014-01-20 01:33:45 <sipa> well aware
 136 2014-01-20 01:33:48 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: SSL is worthless in this case anyway
 137 2014-01-20 01:33:53 <sipa> but you can check the GPG signatures
 138 2014-01-20 01:34:02 <d33tah> sipa: if i have them imported.
 139 2014-01-20 01:34:11 <Luke-Jr> if you want to verify the binaries, check the GPG sigs from all the devs who built it
 140 2014-01-20 01:34:25 <d33tah> and where would i safely get the keys from?
 141 2014-01-20 01:34:36 <Luke-Jr> Miami conference, next weekend
 142 2014-01-20 01:34:41 <sipa> haha
 143 2014-01-20 01:34:57 <d33tah> wish you held one in Poland.
 144 2014-01-20 01:35:01 <sipa> yes, it's a good question, and having https would certainly provide some value
 145 2014-01-20 01:35:15 <sipa> but it wouldn't protect against a hacked webserver
 146 2014-01-20 01:35:24 <d33tah> not against hacked webserver
 147 2014-01-20 01:35:29 <d33tah> my scenario is mitm
 148 2014-01-20 01:35:48 <petertodd> d33tah: think your computer is secure?
 149 2014-01-20 01:36:09 <d33tah> petertodd: above average.
 150 2014-01-20 01:36:25 <d33tah> i'm not delusional, but it doesn't mean i should give up stuff.
 151 2014-01-20 01:36:43 <d33tah> it feels awkward to pull an archive over HTTP and not even know how to verify if i was mitmed.
 152 2014-01-20 01:36:52 <petertodd> d33tah: small chicken and egg problem, but I've got copies of the dev's PGP keys timestamped from a year ago
 153 2014-01-20 01:37:00 <petertodd> d33tah: bitcoin timestamped of course :)
 154 2014-01-20 01:37:07 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: what makes you trust your computer's SSL CA certs? ;)
 155 2014-01-20 01:37:40 <d33tah> Luke-Jr: it's a different problem. the problem is - how harder is it for anyone on the wire to fake stuff if they're over SSL.
 156 2014-01-20 01:37:46 <d33tah> SSL is not the silver bullet, but it's better than plaintext.
 157 2014-01-20 01:38:02 <petertodd> d33tah: also, since you think your comptuer is secure, use the PGP WoT against one of the keys it came with, IE debian keyring
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 160 2014-01-20 01:38:07 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: IMO it's a false sense of security in this case
 161 2014-01-20 01:38:29 <d33tah> petertodd: fedora doesn't have bitcoin in its repos
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 164 2014-01-20 01:38:42 <Luke-Jr> …
 165 2014-01-20 01:38:50 <petertodd> d33tah: no, I mean from any PGP key it comes from, you can use WoT
 166 2014-01-20 01:38:52 <d33tah> Luke-Jr: atm anyone on the wire can change the data. over SSL it's not that trivial
 167 2014-01-20 01:38:59 johnsoft has joined
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 169 2014-01-20 01:39:07 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: Fedora probably has signed Jeff Garzik's key, who has probably signed some other devs, one of whom likely built the release
 170 2014-01-20 01:39:08 s7r has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 171 2014-01-20 01:39:17 <petertodd> d33tah: e.g. if you have a copy of the Linux source, going from those devs to a bitcoin dev is pretty easy
 172 2014-01-20 01:39:24 <SpartanLB> LO
 173 2014-01-20 01:39:27 <Luke-Jr> hmm odd, I don't actually have a PGP key for Jeff at all O.o
 174 2014-01-20 01:39:29 <SpartanLB> people are talking its a miracle
 175 2014-01-20 01:39:40 <d33tah> SpartanLB: sorry about that.
 176 2014-01-20 01:39:59 <d33tah> so, basically, Luke-Jr
 177 2014-01-20 01:40:04 <SpartanLB> Soo are you guys all minerx
 178 2014-01-20 01:40:06 <SpartanLB> miners
 179 2014-01-20 01:40:26 <d33tah> you're saying that SSL on bitcoin.org is a bad idea because it gives false sense of security, which makes people too confident?
 180 2014-01-20 01:40:32 <Luke-Jr> SpartanLB: off-topic, #bitcoin-mining
 181 2014-01-20 01:40:42 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: debatable
 182 2014-01-20 01:40:43 <SpartanLB> this is -dev though
 183 2014-01-20 01:40:49 <Luke-Jr> SpartanLB: -dev is not -mining
 184 2014-01-20 01:41:31 <petertodd> d33tah: e.g. http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/mk_path.cgi?FROM=79be3e4300411886&TO=1FC730C1&PATHS=trust+paths
 185 2014-01-20 01:41:37 <d33tah> Luke-Jr: with SSL, the only way to take over is by taking over the CA. it kind of raises the bar.
 186 2014-01-20 01:41:47 <licnep> when configuring i'm getting "configure: error: Found Berkeley DB other than 4.8, required for portable wallets (--with-incompatible-bdb to ignore)" is it safe to use --with-incompatible-bdb?
 187 2014-01-20 01:41:58 <petertodd> lol, fake gavin code signing key: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xFC0271641F281E36
 188 2014-01-20 01:42:00 <d33tah> petertodd: cool thing, thanks!
 189 2014-01-20 01:42:36 <SpartanLB> no one in the mining chat is talking
 190 2014-01-20 01:42:37 <SpartanLB> ,,,
 191 2014-01-20 01:42:38 <gribble> Error: "," is not a valid command.
 192 2014-01-20 01:42:43 <SpartanLB> ...
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 194 2014-01-20 01:43:48 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin is too expensive, I just paid $20 in fees XD
 195 2014-01-20 01:44:10 <Luke-Jr> d33tah: taking over *any* CA. not that hard.
 196 2014-01-20 01:44:26 <d33tah> Luke-Jr: if you're government.
 197 2014-01-20 01:44:43 <petertodd> d33tah: bitcointalk suffered a CA-related compromise not too long ago
 198 2014-01-20 01:44:55 <d33tah> interesting.
 199 2014-01-20 01:44:58 <Luke-Jr> licnep: just be aware the wallet it accesses will not work with official release binaries
 200 2014-01-20 01:45:06 bluevertro has joined
 201 2014-01-20 01:45:46 <petertodd> d33tah: it's not just governments that make the CA model insecure, it's that CA's will issue certs on incredibly little evidence
 202 2014-01-20 01:46:12 <licnep> Luke-Jr: i see, thanks
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 207 2014-01-20 01:50:46 <d33tah> petertodd: wish there was an alternative.
 208 2014-01-20 01:50:58 SpartanLB has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 209 2014-01-20 01:51:11 <petertodd> d33tah: trust is hard - it's not a problem solvable with just cryptography
 210 2014-01-20 01:51:22 sassamo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 211 2014-01-20 01:51:40 <d33tah> petertodd: interesting thought.
 212 2014-01-20 01:51:49 sassamo has joined
 213 2014-01-20 01:51:56 <d33tah> anyway, gotta go to sleep, 2:41am here. goodnight guys!
 214 2014-01-20 01:52:09 Pucilowski_ is now known as Pucilowski
 215 2014-01-20 01:52:11 <sipa> sounds like a plan
 216 2014-01-20 01:52:18 <sipa> same time here
 217 2014-01-20 01:52:31 <d33tah> sipa: CEST, right? which country?
 218 2014-01-20 01:52:40 <sipa> switzerland
 219 2014-01-20 01:52:47 <d33tah> i see.
 220 2014-01-20 01:52:48 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 221 2014-01-20 01:53:09 <d33tah> and CET, not CEST*
 222 2014-01-20 01:53:12 <d33tah> anyway
 223 2014-01-20 01:53:14 <d33tah> bye for now
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 232 2014-01-20 01:57:56 <witten> does bitcoin currently support including additional metadata in a transaction, such that the transaction will still get relayed and mined? (the data doesn't need to end up in the blockchain, just relayed)
 233 2014-01-20 01:58:01 ConvivialMatt has quit (Quit: ConvivialMatt)
 234 2014-01-20 01:58:16 <Luke-Jr> witten: not anymore.
 235 2014-01-20 01:58:25 <witten> I can find lots of threads about BIP 16, P2SH, etc, but it's hard to tell what's currently implemented and what's just proposed
 236 2014-01-20 01:58:31 <Luke-Jr> witten: it used to, but turned out to be a vulnerability
 237 2014-01-20 01:58:46 <witten> Luke-Jr: for scripts? or for any metadata?
 238 2014-01-20 01:58:51 <Luke-Jr> witten: metadata
 239 2014-01-20 01:58:55 <witten> darn
 240 2014-01-20 01:59:00 <Luke-Jr> witten: you used to be able to append anything to the end, and get it relayed
 241 2014-01-20 01:59:09 <petertodd> witten: 32MB worth!
 242 2014-01-20 01:59:13 <Luke-Jr> witten: the upcoming payment protocol provides a transport for metadata, but not p2p
 243 2014-01-20 01:59:15 <witten> wow
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 245 2014-01-20 01:59:39 <petertodd> witten: quite seriously, for that use-case where the data *not* getting relayed occasionally isn't a disaster, consider using bitmessage
 246 2014-01-20 01:59:58 <witten> thanks, I'll look into that
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 266 2014-01-20 02:18:49 <phantomcircuit> petertodd, i have yet to see anything where bitmessage was significantly safer than alternatives
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 268 2014-01-20 02:19:01 <phantomcircuit> what's the use case?
 269 2014-01-20 02:21:14 <witten> I'm trying to broadcast proof of data possession challenges (~256 bytes), and my initial thought was to ride atop bitcoin transactions
 270 2014-01-20 02:21:20 <witten> sounds like that's not going to work
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 280 2014-01-20 02:29:55 <phantomcircuit> witten, bitmessage is probably a reasonable solution for that
 281 2014-01-20 02:30:20 <interdpth> Hi, I'm encountering configure: error: Found Berkeley DB other than 4.8, required for portable wallets (--with-incompatible-bdb to ignore)
 282 2014-01-20 02:30:20 <interdpth> , is it fine to compile with incompatible bdb? I am compiling the daemon and not a QT wallet
 283 2014-01-20 02:30:21 Ursium has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 284 2014-01-20 02:31:10 <saivann> I plan to merge this pull request in the following days:
 285 2014-01-20 02:31:14 <saivann> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/271
 286 2014-01-20 02:31:18 <saivann> (Adding Coinkite to web wallets on bitcoin.org)
 287 2014-01-20 02:31:24 <saivann> Please comment on the pull request if you have any questions / reservations
 288 2014-01-20 02:31:35 <licnep> bitmessage has nothing to do with bitcoin right?
 289 2014-01-20 02:32:01 <sipa> interdpth: do you need a wallet at all?
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 291 2014-01-20 02:34:03 <justanotheruser> licnep: same network topology to my understanding
 292 2014-01-20 02:38:34 <interdpth> yeah
 293 2014-01-20 02:38:43 <interdpth> guess I'll get this older one installed then :p
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 307 2014-01-20 03:10:25 <licnep> what's the current block count for the testnet?
 308 2014-01-20 03:11:39 <licnep> nvm, 168570
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 321 2014-01-20 03:32:00 <aegis> Hi all, does anyone else have a problem with Bitcoin Armory giving Segmentation Fault (Core Dumped) errors and crashing in linux?
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 325 2014-01-20 03:34:12 <aegis> Anyone?
 326 2014-01-20 03:36:43 <justanotheruser> aegis: run valgrind on it. That's all I would know to try
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 328 2014-01-20 03:37:25 <aegis> justanotheruser: thanks...  I've never heard of valgrind... will research
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 331 2014-01-20 03:38:35 <aegis> It does this on two different systems and both result with the same errors multiple times a day.
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 333 2014-01-20 03:39:06 <justanotheruser> aegis: valgrind tells you why it is getting a segfault
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 335 2014-01-20 03:39:51 <aegis> justanotheruser: installing it now...
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 439 2014-01-20 06:01:35 <aegis> Hi all... so I got valgrind installed to test it on bitcoin armory to figure out why it does multipe segmentation fault (core dumped) errors everyday...  do I just run valgrind /usr/python ArmoryQt.py     ?
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 460 2014-01-20 06:26:30 <interdpth> Could someone help me get berkely db 4.8 on ubuntu? I did a sudo make install of the source but when trying to run, I get ./bitcoind: error while loading shared libraries: libdb_cxx-4.8.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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 463 2014-01-20 06:31:00 <jcorgan> you may need to run 'sudo ldconfig' to inform the operation system that you have installed new librarires
 464 2014-01-20 06:31:07 <jcorgan> libraries
 465 2014-01-20 06:31:27 <jcorgan> and operating system
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 467 2014-01-20 06:31:32 <jcorgan> damn typos
 468 2014-01-20 06:31:49 <interdpth> I had to sudo apt-get install libdb4.8++ I just find it out that I just compiled berkely and I'm missing that
 469 2014-01-20 06:31:53 <interdpth> oh well, case solved :D
 470 2014-01-20 06:32:26 <jcorgan> good :)
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 478 2014-01-20 06:38:03 <swulf--> testnet faucet is down?
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 493 2014-01-20 06:50:08 <interdpth> Alright, I launched with -daemon and -server
 494 2014-01-20 06:50:12 <interdpth> bitcoind is running
 495 2014-01-20 06:50:30 <interdpth> but ./bitcoind -getinfo says cannot connect to server
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 497 2014-01-20 06:51:17 <interdpth> ports match rpc
 498 2014-01-20 06:51:27 <interdpth> but just accesing the binary should do something right? lol
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 508 2014-01-20 07:16:22 <maaku> you shouldn't have a hyphen in getinfo
 509 2014-01-20 07:16:27 <maaku> but that's not your root issue
 510 2014-01-20 07:17:09 <sipa> that's probably not what he really typed either
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 515 2014-01-20 07:24:45 <interdpth> naw
 516 2014-01-20 07:24:52 <interdpth> It was
 517 2014-01-20 07:25:12 <interdpth> sudo apt-get install bitcoind worked wonders
 518 2014-01-20 07:25:16 <interdpth> where the compiled code didn't
 519 2014-01-20 07:25:18 <interdpth> oh well
 520 2014-01-20 07:25:20 <interdpth> working
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 528 2014-01-20 07:36:12 <sipa> Internet13: you likely have an ancient version running now
 529 2014-01-20 07:36:41 <sipa> Ieh not you
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 554 2014-01-20 08:05:50 <aegis> So I ran valgrind with bitcoin armory to find out what it always gets the segmentation fault (core dumped) on multiple machines...
 555 2014-01-20 08:05:57 <aegis> Here is what I got at the end...
 556 2014-01-20 08:06:00 <aegis> --15680:0:aspacem  Valgrind: FATAL: VG_N_SEGNAMES is too low.
 557 2014-01-20 08:06:00 <aegis> --15680:0:aspacem    Increase it and rebuild.  Exiting now.
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 563 2014-01-20 08:08:26 <HaltingState> gmaxwell, add a /ignore command for turning off greeting from gribble
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 565 2014-01-20 08:12:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|09:25:41 <sipa> Internet13: you likely have an ancient version running now
 566 2014-01-20 08:12:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Nםא מקבקדדשרןךט
 567 2014-01-20 08:13:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|er
 568 2014-01-20 08:13:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Not necessatily
 569 2014-01-20 08:13:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|necessarily*
 570 2014-01-20 08:13:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|http://packages.ubuntu.com/bitcoin
 571 2014-01-20 08:13:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If they're on raring or saucy, they're at least on 0.8.x
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 576 2014-01-20 08:16:47 <sipa> HaltingState: ?
 577 2014-01-20 08:16:56 <sipa> ignore is local to your client
 578 2014-01-20 08:17:05 <HaltingState> sipa, cant ignore
 579 2014-01-20 08:17:15 <sipa> ?
 580 2014-01-20 08:17:24 <HaltingState> i think there is policy or something to prevent spamming that you can just pm messages to users in channel on connect
 581 2014-01-20 08:17:31 <HaltingState> and that it should have disable
 582 2014-01-20 08:17:44 <HaltingState> i use gribble for other things
 583 2014-01-20 08:17:51 <HaltingState> so i dont want to ignore
 584 2014-01-20 08:18:00 <sipa> ok
 585 2014-01-20 08:18:11 <HaltingState> maybe xchat has something to turn off notifications for user, but i am still receiving the pm which is annoying
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 587 2014-01-20 08:19:08 <HaltingState> everytime my vps/relay restarts or internet connection from wifi goes out, gribble sends me a PM and its very annoying
 588 2014-01-20 08:19:33 <HaltingState> i have like 40 pages of gribble pms in log
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 592 2014-01-20 08:20:31 <HaltingState> also, gribble has literally 400 commands but no /nogreet command to disable greeting on per user basis
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 618 2014-01-20 08:51:45 <sipa> HaltingState: ask nanotube to add such a feature
 619 2014-01-20 08:52:46 <sipa> i can recommend running your irc client in a screen session on a vps though, no more connection losses :)
 620 2014-01-20 08:53:00 <HaltingState> nanotube, can you add command /nogreet to gribble so it does not PM me when wifi goes out or my VPN resets
 621 2014-01-20 08:53:06 <HaltingState> sipa, i am running through vps
 622 2014-01-20 08:53:13 <HaltingState> but people are resetting the vps and stuff is happening with internet
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 631 2014-01-20 09:13:33 <epscy> buffer move 6
 632 2014-01-20 09:13:43 <epscy> oops ;)
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 670 2014-01-20 09:59:45 <maaku> HaltingState: gribble greeting is not from this channel
 671 2014-01-20 10:01:22 <HaltingState> maaku, its pm
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 674 2014-01-20 10:02:45 <maaku> HaltingState: yes, when you /join #bitcoin, not #bitcoin-dev
 675 2014-01-20 10:03:10 <HaltingState> and?
 676 2014-01-20 10:03:18 <sipa> also, not sure whether a nogreet would work, it happens before you are authenticated
 677 2014-01-20 10:03:37 <sipa> so it's not like gribble knows who you are
 678 2014-01-20 10:03:54 <HaltingState> so it pms you because you have an irc name?
 679 2014-01-20 10:04:04 <HaltingState> *pms you before you have an irc name
 680 2014-01-20 10:04:22 <sipa> no, before gribble knows who you are, i suppose
 681 2014-01-20 10:04:27 <HaltingState> i have been in other channels where bots dont spam me everytime i connect, so it must be possible
 682 2014-01-20 10:04:51 <sipa> anyway, i think what maaku wants to say is that it's not the right place to complain :)
 683 2014-01-20 10:05:29 <HaltingState> the dev of gribble is not even in #bitcoin and its a dev issue for the bitcoin community
 684 2014-01-20 10:05:54 <HaltingState> #bitcoin is for for "OMG IT HIT $14" not for development issues
 685 2014-01-20 10:06:11 <sipa> then complain to ops there, or someone who is involved with #bitcoun at all
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 687 2014-01-20 10:06:28 <sipa> #bitcoin
 688 2014-01-20 10:06:51 <HaltingState> the gribble developer is not in #bitcoin; that is what i am telling you
 689 2014-01-20 10:06:56 <HaltingState> he is in #bitcoin-dev
 690 2014-01-20 10:07:16 <HaltingState> i brought this up in #bitcoin and they said "the dev is not in the channel"
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 692 2014-01-20 10:07:44 <HaltingState> i just blocked gribble until the spam issue is resolved
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 696 2014-01-20 10:08:29 <shesek> if you were on mIRC, its quite trivial to write a little script that blocked that specific autojoin message
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 699 2014-01-20 10:09:15 <sipa> HaltingState: it has nothing to do with bitcoin development, and complaining to people who are 1) not gribble authors  2) are not involved with #bitcoin will not change anything
 700 2014-01-20 10:09:16 <shesek> it requires a little more effort with xchat, though
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 703 2014-01-20 10:10:15 <HaltingState> sipa, summary: #bitcoin says dev is in #bitcoin-dev, sipa says ask someone in #bitcoin, gmaxwell says "no, wont fix"
 704 2014-01-20 10:10:54 <HaltingState> EOF; doing work now
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 831 2014-01-20 13:30:13 <Goonie> Recently in a discussion at a Bitcoin meetup this question came up: What's the incentive for (non-miner) Bitcoin nodes to relay transactions?
 832 2014-01-20 13:33:06 <warren> Goonie: they would want others to relay their transactions ...
 833 2014-01-20 13:33:34 <warren> Goonie: indeed it's very possible to disrupt relaying with lots of bad nodes
 834 2014-01-20 13:34:31 ValicekB has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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 836 2014-01-20 13:39:06 <Goonie> Hmm, not entirely convincing. Its hard to detect a node that doesn't relay in order to drop him (or not relay his txns in return).
 837 2014-01-20 13:40:00 <Goonie> So I guess as transaction traffic picks up we will see more and more nodes acting badly.
 838 2014-01-20 13:42:20 <sipa> Goonie: another weak one: you like to see the transactions you are considering valid, to end up in a block
 839 2014-01-20 13:42:58 <sipa> and there are possible self-selection strategies, like keeping connections with nodes that are more frequently the first to relay you blocks or transactions
 840 2014-01-20 13:43:22 <sipa> however that may risk clustering, or a less strongly connected network at least
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1017 2014-01-20 17:56:42 <melvster> oooh ... trezor is almost here ... looks awesome : http://www.bitcointrezor.com/news/2014-01-20-trezor-first-edition-delivery
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1019 2014-01-20 17:58:30 <Ry4an> I ordered the plastic one and now I'm almost gretting not going w/ the metal.
1020 2014-01-20 17:58:41 <Ry4an> +re
1021 2014-01-20 18:01:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I haven't ordered one
1022 2014-01-20 18:01:39 <melvster> I ordered 2 metal and 14 plastic ... to be fair i have no idea what im going to do with so many ... just wanted to support it
1023 2014-01-20 18:01:52 <melvster> but im *really* glad I ordered the metal one now
1024 2014-01-20 18:01:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Note that at the time that I looked and decided against getting one, I could have bought an iPhone and it would be cheaper...)
1025 2014-01-20 18:02:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|would have been*
1026 2014-01-20 18:02:21 <melvster> yeah but id rather have a trezor than an iphone :P
1027 2014-01-20 18:02:33 <swulf--> at least you can send btc using a trezor
1028 2014-01-20 18:02:45 <melvster> it does lots more than that ...
1029 2014-01-20 18:02:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|swulf--: actually you can't
1030 2014-01-20 18:02:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You can send BTC using an iPhone
1031 2014-01-20 18:03:16 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1032 2014-01-20 18:03:19 <swulf--> how? via a web app?
1033 2014-01-20 18:03:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Sending BTC from a trezor requires a computer or other compatible device
1034 2014-01-20 18:03:32 <swulf--> 'sending' was used loosely
1035 2014-01-20 18:03:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Jailbreak
1036 2014-01-20 18:03:57 <swulf--> you shouldn't have to
1037 2014-01-20 18:04:06 <swulf--> and it wasn't until recently that iOS had a jailbreak available for it
1038 2014-01-20 18:04:10 <swulf--> iOS7*
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1040 2014-01-20 18:05:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|swulf--: any iPhone but the iPhone 5S could have stayed at jailbroken 6.1.x, iirc
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1042 2014-01-20 18:06:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|swulf--: anyway, if you can "send" bitcoins from a trezor, you can send them from a non-jailbroken iPhone
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1044 2014-01-20 18:07:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Not saying the trezor isn't useful, or that it's not good that it exists, but personally, I'd take a smartphone over a trezor
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1046 2014-01-20 18:09:20 <melvster> gonna be whole new waves of innovation built on the trezor i predict, they already do HD wallets iirc
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1053 2014-01-20 18:11:44 * helo wonders if trezor uses constant-time signing, or if it matters
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1076 2014-01-20 18:28:53 <lechuga__> michagogolcloud: i agree
1077 2014-01-20 18:29:05 <lechuga__> theres very little chance im carrying another device with me
1078 2014-01-20 18:29:30 <lechuga__> so if i have to carry one it will be the most useful one
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1132 2014-01-20 20:03:54 <midnightmagic> Goonie: By keeping the network as healthy as possible, you are ensuring the health of your own bitcoins..?
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1136 2014-01-20 20:08:58 <sipa> midnightmagic: that's very correct, but it's not a useful argument
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1138 2014-01-20 20:09:34 <justanotheruser1> sipa: tragedy of the commons?
1139 2014-01-20 20:09:48 <sipa> "why would you ever steal bitcoins? it will make the bitcoin system appear less secure, and therefore make your own coins less valuable!"
1140 2014-01-20 20:10:30 <sipa> relying on people behaving a certain way out of long-term interest isn't useful as a security assumption
1141 2014-01-20 20:11:00 <midnightmagic> sipa: Preventing transaction relay would only be a benefit to miners by artificially increasing pressure on tx fees.
1142 2014-01-20 20:11:32 <midnightmagic> As a *user* I can't see a benefit; in fact facilitating it would create the reverse, intuitively.
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1146 2014-01-20 20:14:01 <jacob___> hi folks, i have a tech question
1147 2014-01-20 20:14:07 <midnightmagic> Thieving a bitcoin potentially nets you a thousand dollars if you can get away with it..
1148 2014-01-20 20:14:11 <jacob___> transaction go on the blockchain for all to see, how would dark wallet obfuscate this?
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1150 2014-01-20 20:14:47 <shamoon> https://blockchain.info/tx/e3bf3d07d4b0375638d5f1db5255fe07ba2c4cb067cd81b84ee974b6585fb468 - how is this a reward from 2 different blocks?
1151 2014-01-20 20:16:22 <sipa> shamoon: see BIP30
1152 2014-01-20 20:16:33 [Author] has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
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1154 2014-01-20 20:17:12 <shamoon> has this been implemented?
1155 2014-01-20 20:17:48 <sipa> Implementation
1156 2014-01-20 20:17:48 <sipa> A patch for the reference client can be found on https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/nooverwritetx
1157 2014-01-20 20:17:51 <sipa> This BIP was implemented in Commit Do not allow overwriting unspent transactions (BIP 30) There have been additional commits to refine the implementation of this BIP.
1158 2014-01-20 20:18:17 <shamoon> interesting
1159 2014-01-20 20:18:53 <sipa> and it became a network rule on mainnet as of march 15, 2012
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1161 2014-01-20 20:19:09 <midnightmagic> shamoon: blockchain.info, as usual, is decoding the data in an unhelpful way.
1162 2014-01-20 20:19:21 <sipa> this time, it's absolutely correct though :)
1163 2014-01-20 20:19:27 <sipa> it's a transaction that appears in two blocks
1164 2014-01-20 20:19:28 <shamoon> midnightmagic: so what's a more accurate way to show the data?
1165 2014-01-20 20:19:52 <midnightmagic> shamoon: I didn't say it was inaccurate. I just said it was unhelpful, because you're in here asking questions.
1166 2014-01-20 20:21:11 <shamoon> gotcha
1167 2014-01-20 20:21:13 <shamoon> thanks'
1168 2014-01-20 20:22:19 <midnightmagic> A more helpful way would be to point people towards https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0030.mediawiki or to somehow describe these sorts of special cases.
1169 2014-01-20 20:23:02 <midnightmagic> ;;seen roconnor
1170 2014-01-20 20:23:02 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <roconnor> What is the correct base58 encoding of n bytes of 0's?
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1180 2014-01-20 20:28:32 <nickler> sipa: do you plan to attend the meetup tomorrow?
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1182 2014-01-20 20:29:19 <sipa> nickler: no, too tired
1183 2014-01-20 20:30:02 <nickler> a pity, but keep up the good work :)
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1226 2014-01-20 21:19:43 <happening> hi
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1231 2014-01-20 21:26:59 <happening> I'm trying to implement multisignature transactions. I have a transaction with one input that points to a redeem-script. Let's say that it needs 2 out of 2 signatures to be redeemed. I add the redeemscript to the input and serialize the transaction, hash, and then sign that hash for each private key?
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1234 2014-01-20 21:30:26 <sipa> nickler: oh, so confused; i thought you were talki g about today, but it's monday
1235 2014-01-20 21:30:44 <sipa> nickler: i might go tonorrow, though after 20h somewhere at the earliest
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1237 2014-01-20 21:32:08 <nickler> sipa: great, I would have some code to discuss
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1239 2014-01-20 21:33:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|happening: I assume you've read https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0016.mediawiki?
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1247 2014-01-20 21:50:00 <midnightmagic> Is it possible to use a garbled non-tx coinbase in a block?  So, reward 0, no tx, plus message in coinbase?
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1250 2014-01-20 21:52:30 <petertodd> midnightmagic: coinbase tx's have to have valid outputs, so at least one txout, although you can set the nValue of that txout to zero and put anything you want in the scriptPubKey
1251 2014-01-20 21:52:44 <midnightmagic> hrm..
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1253 2014-01-20 21:53:07 <petertodd> midnightmagic: though... sigops limits for the scriptPubKey should still apply - interesting niche test case
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1255 2014-01-20 21:53:22 <petertodd> midnightmagic: (I forget if sigops in the coinbase are counted?)
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1258 2014-01-20 21:55:09 <midnightmagic> just perusing the CheckBlock() logic..
1259 2014-01-20 21:56:12 <sipa> petertodd: they are counted
1260 2014-01-20 21:57:24 <petertodd> sipa: ugh
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