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   3 2014-01-24 00:02:16 <andytoshi> i did not say that :P
   4 2014-01-24 00:02:27 <andytoshi> i said i ddin't know anything about windows
   5 2014-01-24 00:02:40 <goodbtc> that's what she said
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  13 2014-01-24 00:12:29 <neph001> hey everyone. quick question: could anyone share some insites into why c++ was chosen to initially implement the bitcoin protocol and such? been looking through the code on github and was wondering.
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  15 2014-01-24 00:13:09 <goodbtc> that's what we learned to code with back in school
  16 2014-01-24 00:13:13 <lechuga_> probably what satoshi knew best
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  18 2014-01-24 00:13:29 <Apocalyptic> one of the few decent languages out there
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  20 2014-01-24 00:15:15 <neph001> Is the direct control that C++ can offer relevant? To security or something? Or could it have been implemented just as securely in a more abstracted language without issue if that's what the original devs had preferred?
  21 2014-01-24 00:15:20 <lechuga_> i guess it also raises the bar in terms of who can screw it up
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  23 2014-01-24 00:15:46 <lechuga_> i dont know that it affords any more security than a python script could
  24 2014-01-24 00:15:57 <gmaxwell> neph001: Performance is a major consideration, as is transparency of operation, generally C++ is about the highest level thing which is widely used as a systems language.
  25 2014-01-24 00:16:00 <lechuga_> it will arguably perform better
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  29 2014-01-24 00:17:14 <gmaxwell> lechuga_: Security in a consensus system has additional dimensions, and can sometimes make life harder for very high level tools. E.g. two different versions of python seralizing things differently could be fatal in a system like bitcoin.
  30 2014-01-24 00:17:15 <goodbtc> gmaxwell, i think i found the problem :(
  31 2014-01-24 00:17:20 <neph001> Hrm. So if I wanted to start tinkering with an idea that (while not a cryptocurrency) utilizes a blockchain, would you advise using c++ as well? I guess I just kind of want to hammer out a proof of concept and it'd go faster in python
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  33 2014-01-24 00:17:47 <neph001> gmaxwell: I hadn't really thought of that. that's a good point
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  35 2014-01-24 00:18:06 <gmaxwell> Hah. I'd generally not recommend a blockchain for many things!   But there is always an advantage in using tools you're comfortable with.
  36 2014-01-24 00:18:22 <lechuga_> i spec my crazy ideas using node usually
  37 2014-01-24 00:18:49 <lechuga_> cant get much faster than js in terms of prototyping turnaround
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  39 2014-01-24 00:19:00 <lechuga_> imo
  40 2014-01-24 00:19:03 <neph001> I really should get around to learning js >_>
  41 2014-01-24 00:19:12 <lechuga_> if you know c++ it shouldnt be much effort
  42 2014-01-24 00:19:23 <goodbtc> the problem is: the damn bitcoin.conf needs an additional enter at the end of the password
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  44 2014-01-24 00:19:34 <neph001> I know it well enough to read but not well enough to code in without constantly checking reference materials :-p
  45 2014-01-24 00:19:55 <neph001> I haven't needed to produce anything in it for like 2 years and that was just a class.
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  47 2014-01-24 00:20:28 <neph001> anyway thanks for the advice everyone :)
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  54 2014-01-24 00:25:32 <lechuga_> gmaxwell: i guess any complex distributed system running from script is prone to the drawback of 'oh i got to thise code? but this code doesn't even compile silly human...'
  55 2014-01-24 00:25:39 <lechuga_> this*
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  57 2014-01-24 00:27:33 <lechuga_> and usign things like strings for message types would be natural in a scripted language
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  59 2014-01-24 00:27:39 <lechuga_> and god forbid u typo
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  62 2014-01-24 00:30:20 <lechuga_> no type safety
  63 2014-01-24 00:30:37 <lechuga_> yeah im now sold on c++ being the right choice
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 112 2014-01-24 01:09:08 <jcorgan> theoretical question, not intended as a feature request: could all the wallet functionality of bitcoin-qt be implemented as a separate program communicating over RPC to bitcoind (perhaps with txindex=1)?
 113 2014-01-24 01:10:04 <petertodd> jcorgan: yes
 114 2014-01-24 01:10:36 <jcorgan> that was easy
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 116 2014-01-24 01:11:06 <petertodd> jcorgan: now go do it, that's relatively easy too :)
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 119 2014-01-24 01:11:42 <jcorgan> for a suitable definition of relative
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 122 2014-01-24 01:13:31 <jcorgan> i guess it is a separate question about whether that would be useful
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 135 2014-01-24 01:28:32 <Luke-Jr> jcorgan: no.
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 137 2014-01-24 01:29:02 <Luke-Jr> jcorgan: RPC doesn't provide any sane mechanism for realtime updates; you'd need walletnotify and blocknotify to go with it
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 141 2014-01-24 01:30:25 <lechuga_> needs websocket interface
 142 2014-01-24 01:31:19 <Apocalyptic> no
 143 2014-01-24 01:31:21 <Apocalyptic> you can build a websocket wrapper around yourself
 144 2014-01-24 01:31:26 <Apocalyptic> if you need it
 145 2014-01-24 01:31:31 <lechuga_> nobody wants realtiem updates from me
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 151 2014-01-24 01:35:57 <sipa> jcorgan: why would you need txindex?
 152 2014-01-24 01:36:14 <sipa> jcorgan: bitcoind works without it, bitcoin-qt doesn't have any functionality that bitcoind doesn't
 153 2014-01-24 01:36:36 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: just blocknotify - he's talking about replacing the whole wallet remember
 154 2014-01-24 01:36:52 <Luke-Jr> oh right
 155 2014-01-24 01:36:55 <Luke-Jr> so then not even at all
 156 2014-01-24 01:37:52 <Luke-Jr> since there's no way to get broadcasts of others' txns
 157 2014-01-24 01:37:52 <sipa> oh!
 158 2014-01-24 01:37:52 <Luke-Jr> unless you use the p2p port too..
 159 2014-01-24 01:37:52 <sipa> replacing the wallet entirely
 160 2014-01-24 01:37:53 <Luke-Jr> but then you might as well do a single-peer SPV node
 161 2014-01-24 01:38:19 <Luke-Jr> and then you have Electrum
 162 2014-01-24 01:38:19 <Luke-Jr> <.<
 163 2014-01-24 01:38:19 <sipa> i'd rather use the P2P protocol for that instead of RPC
 164 2014-01-24 01:38:19 <sipa> in fact, that already exists!
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 170 2014-01-24 01:42:30 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: do you happen to know if VFIO is a complete replacement for UIO?
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 188 2014-01-24 02:04:59 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, dunno
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 270 2014-01-24 03:38:20 <AndrewGaspar> does anybody have examples of unit tests for code that interacts with the blockchain?
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 278 2014-01-24 03:51:27 <vite> How do I set a custom port on bitcoind for testnet
 279 2014-01-24 03:51:27 <vite> I tried bitcoind -regtest -gen ... but it seems to work on the regular testnet
 280 2014-01-24 03:51:57 vite has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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 282 2014-01-24 03:54:56 <teward> vite: i told you in #bitcoin-otc
 283 2014-01-24 03:55:13 <teward> well, i told you one method
 284 2014-01-24 03:55:43 <teward> vite: to set the custom port you either need to define it at runtime, or use a configuration file for it
 285 2014-01-24 03:55:43 <AndrewGaspar> I think vite is gone now
 286 2014-01-24 03:55:50 <teward> yes, he is.
 287 2014-01-24 03:55:50 * teward didn't see the quit
 288 2014-01-24 03:55:50 <teward> my apologies
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 290 2014-01-24 03:58:07 <vite> me again, how do I tell bitcoin to listen to a port so as to run a private testnet?
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 321 2014-01-24 04:22:29 <groglogic> vite: bitcoind --help and help are your friends
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 324 2014-01-24 04:27:03 <vite> groglogic, thanks
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 370 2014-01-24 05:46:20 <gancl> Hi!The p2p pool runs error:"net = networks.nets[net_name] KeyError: 'bitcoin'".How to solve it?
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 518 2014-01-24 13:03:34 <shamoon> how do block explorers (blockchain.info, blockexplorer.com, blockr.io) deal with the fact that blocks can be orphaned?
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 539 2014-01-24 13:29:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shamoon: Could you rephrase?
 540 2014-01-24 13:29:16 <shamoon> sure - okay.. so let's say the current block is 100,000
 541 2014-01-24 13:29:24 <shamoon> and some block explorer went ahead and indexed that block
 542 2014-01-24 13:29:32 <shamoon> getblockhash, getblock, getrawtransaction, etc
 543 2014-01-24 13:29:45 <shamoon> now that node knows about block 100,001 and 100,002 a few minutes later
 544 2014-01-24 13:30:11 <shamoon> but lo and behold, other miners got up to 100,003 with a different 100,001 and 100,002
 545 2014-01-24 13:30:20 <shamoon> so the explorers 100,001 and 100,002 are now orphaned
 546 2014-01-24 13:30:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|No, I understood what you meant
 547 2014-01-24 13:30:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(with the orphaned part)
 548 2014-01-24 13:30:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But what do you mean, how do they deal with it?
 549 2014-01-24 13:30:55 <shamoon> so when blockexplorer.com shows a recent block, how does it account for the fact that that changes
 550 2014-01-24 13:31:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000e9a1983d4c123335c5395a6a1323f9b2326a62c37e4ec96
 551 2014-01-24 13:31:03 <shamoon> that block X changes
 552 2014-01-24 13:31:22 <shamoon> right - so i guess i'm asking about the data structure best suited to this
 553 2014-01-24 13:32:23 <shamoon> and the logic
 554 2014-01-24 13:32:34 <shamoon> like... "check new block", do i have this block? if i do, is it the same?
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 556 2014-01-24 13:32:50 <shamoon> if it isn't, i have to rewrite a bunch of transactions, addresses, etc in my database
 557 2014-01-24 13:34:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yep
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 559 2014-01-24 13:34:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In the event of a reorg, you need to figure out how to deal with it
 560 2014-01-24 13:35:07 <shamoon> what happens to the bitcoin client?
 561 2014-01-24 13:35:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|for example, by rolling your databases back to the last common ancestor and replaying the new best chain
 562 2014-01-24 13:35:11 <shamoon> in the event of a reorg
 563 2014-01-24 13:35:17 <shamoon> i assume it doesn't have a flag or signal of any kind?
 564 2014-01-24 13:35:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You mean, a signal to the user?
 565 2014-01-24 13:35:34 <shamoon> any signal at all
 566 2014-01-24 13:35:36 <shamoon> anything i can query
 567 2014-01-24 13:35:37 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 568 2014-01-24 13:35:37 <shamoon> or check
 569 2014-01-24 13:35:43 <shamoon> to see if there was a re-org
 570 2014-01-24 13:35:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Check if a transaction's confirmation count or block changes
 571 2014-01-24 13:36:14 <shamoon> will the txid be the same?
 572 2014-01-24 13:36:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or monitor the debug log for a reorg
 573 2014-01-24 13:36:17 <shamoon> if a block changes?
 574 2014-01-24 13:36:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yes, it's the same transaction
 575 2014-01-24 13:36:26 <shamoon> interesting
 576 2014-01-24 13:36:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The same way it doesn't change when it gets confirmed...
 577 2014-01-24 13:36:37 <shamoon> although, in a re-org, it's possible for a tx to not exist any more
 578 2014-01-24 13:36:43 <shamoon> in any block
 579 2014-01-24 13:36:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|No, it's possible for it to not be confirmed anymore
 580 2014-01-24 13:37:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The transaction remains valid, assuming no double-spend, and it can get reconfirmed
 581 2014-01-24 13:37:19 <shamoon> if i send a tx now and 100 blocks later, no one has picked it up (for whatever reason), what happens to it?
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 583 2014-01-24 13:37:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It remains unconfirmed
 584 2014-01-24 13:37:48 <shamoon> keypool?
 585 2014-01-24 13:37:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Anyone who still has a copy can mine it
 586 2014-01-24 13:38:00 <shamoon> but i can't double spend it (at least from the reference client)?
 587 2014-01-24 13:38:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or rbroadcast it
 588 2014-01-24 13:38:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|rebroadcast*
 589 2014-01-24 13:38:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Correct
 590 2014-01-24 13:39:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bitcoin Core keeps transactions stored in the wallet and will periodically rebroadcast them if they don't confirm
 591 2014-01-24 13:39:31 <shamoon> so if i create a tx that's ridiculous (no fees), it may take many days to confirm
 592 2014-01-24 13:39:44 <shamoon> that's MY client, what about other nodes? do they keep copies of thos tx's?
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 596 2014-01-24 13:45:30 <songz> Is it possible for my wallet to only receive payments (on a server), and have the same wallet on my personal computer to send payments, with both wallets having the some accounts and transactions?
 597 2014-01-24 13:46:55 vite has joined
 598 2014-01-24 13:47:42 <vite> ok I admin I have a shitty development enviroment, I ran the bitcoind -testnet -gen all nigh and still running and I still haven't gotten any coins, can any soul just send me freenode:#bitcoin-otc:60db96f456d69c7715392101349bd50a4360dcf481a64e06f9ffa751
 599 2014-01-24 13:47:42 <vite>  testnet coins to work out some experiments
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 601 2014-01-24 13:47:51 <vite> *admit
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 603 2014-01-24 13:48:14 <andytoshi> songz: not really. i might try to periodically copy wallet.dat to some read-only media for the "receive only" server
 604 2014-01-24 13:48:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: what's your address?
 605 2014-01-24 13:48:32 <andytoshi> songz: or you could use CoinVault, that uses HD chains and lets you import other chains
 606 2014-01-24 13:48:47 <shesek> vite, http://faucet.xeno-genesis.com/
 607 2014-01-24 13:49:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: I think you pasted the wrong thing
 608 2014-01-24 13:49:57 mattco has joined
 609 2014-01-24 13:50:04 <vite> michagogo|cloud, yep I was identing to gribble
 610 2014-01-24 13:50:06 <andytoshi> songz: oh, sorry, CoinVault is not actually out yet.
 611 2014-01-24 13:50:08 <vite> ;;letmein
 612 2014-01-24 13:50:08 <gribble> Error: You already have voice in #bitcoin-otc.
 613 2014-01-24 13:50:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: yeah, figured
 614 2014-01-24 13:50:40 <vite> here is the address mgxa9NxGiv2Eod7uEX92vpCPczwHBDVyxW
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 616 2014-01-24 13:50:58 <vite> michagogo|cloud, nevermind I have coins no
 617 2014-01-24 13:51:00 <vite> now
 618 2014-01-24 13:51:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, my client's not open
 619 2014-01-24 13:51:21 <songz> hmmm thank you @andytoshi
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 621 2014-01-24 13:51:47 <songz> I'm just not sure... if your remote server is compromised, you can potentially lose everything no?
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 624 2014-01-24 13:52:22 <andytoshi> songz: yeah, if the server with the keys is. so you could copy the wallet to the receive-only guy, set wallet passphrase by reading /dev/random or something
 625 2014-01-24 13:52:22 disident has quit (Quit: disident)
 626 2014-01-24 13:52:32 <songz> and if you are building a business on top of your wallet, what are some 'best practices'? Are there any resources I can read up on?
 627 2014-01-24 13:52:50 <songz> ah...
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 630 2014-01-24 13:53:50 <songz> hmmm I'm trying to understand, are you saying that I copy wallet to receive-only guy, and receive-only guy (since he doesn't have passphrase), the wallet is read only?
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 633 2014-01-24 13:54:15 <andytoshi> songz: don't keep the keys on anything internet-facing, have a "hot wallet" with a small amount of coins if you need to send money, use new addresses for every recieve..
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 635 2014-01-24 13:54:19 <andytoshi> songz: yeah, that's right
 636 2014-01-24 13:54:23 <songz> nice!
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 638 2014-01-24 13:54:31 <andytoshi> the idea is, nobody has the password and if it's long and random then nobody can crack it
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 645 2014-01-24 13:54:55 <songz> another question, is there a wallet setting that I can change so the wallet can only send within its accounts in its wallet?
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 653 2014-01-24 13:55:01 <andytoshi> but nobody has written down these "best practices" to the best of my knowledge
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 657 2014-01-24 13:55:13 <sipa> songz: accounts only exist as local bean counters
 658 2014-01-24 13:55:17 <andytoshi> songz: i think you're confused about what accounts do
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 660 2014-01-24 13:55:19 EngierkO has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 661 2014-01-24 13:55:22 <andytoshi> one moment, i do have a document about that..
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 663 2014-01-24 13:55:24 <sipa> songz: there is no such thing as a "transaction within an account"
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 666 2014-01-24 13:55:28 Arnavion has joined
 667 2014-01-24 13:55:29 digitalmagus2 has joined
 668 2014-01-24 13:55:33 <sipa> all coins in a wallet are always shared
 669 2014-01-24 13:55:35 yubrew_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 673 2014-01-24 13:55:47 <andytoshi> "accounts and wallets faq" http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-faq.pdf
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 684 2014-01-24 13:56:43 <songz> haha
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 687 2014-01-24 13:56:48 <songz> I must have it all wrong then
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 689 2014-01-24 13:57:01 ielo is now known as lumos
 690 2014-01-24 13:57:02 <sipa> accounts are _not_ separate wallets
 691 2014-01-24 13:57:04 <andytoshi> nah, just "what accounts are"
 692 2014-01-24 13:57:08 <vite> how long does it take to cpu  mine at difficulty 1?
 693 2014-01-24 13:57:09 gmaxwell is now known as Guest31376
 694 2014-01-24 13:57:09 <songz> if I create a web app, I should give each user a wallet right?
 695 2014-01-24 13:57:09 maaku has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 696 2014-01-24 13:57:10 <lumos> hey please anyone who can run a keygen for me on windows?
 697 2014-01-24 13:57:11 stavs has joined
 698 2014-01-24 13:57:15 <sipa> they're just a way for you to count who owns how much
 699 2014-01-24 13:57:17 <andytoshi> i guess another "best practice" is not to use bitcoind's accounts :)
 700 2014-01-24 13:57:18 Liquid__ has joined
 701 2014-01-24 13:57:22 <songz> I was thinking of giving each user an account
 702 2014-01-24 13:57:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: depends on how fast your CPU can mine
 703 2014-01-24 13:57:50 <vite> core duo 3gz
 704 2014-01-24 13:57:50 <andytoshi> songz: yeah, you probably want to maintain balances in a database of your own, that way all the user info is in one place
 705 2014-01-24 13:57:51 <kjj> accounts are always the wrong answer.
 706 2014-01-24 13:57:54 <vite> dualcore
 707 2014-01-24 13:58:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|IIRC difficulty 1 is roughly 10 minutes between blocks at 7-8 Mh/s
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 713 2014-01-24 13:59:14 <songz> I had the idea of using accounts for each user because of the wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
 714 2014-01-24 13:59:32 <songz> under "typical uses"
 715 2014-01-24 13:59:37 <songz> is that insecure?
 716 2014-01-24 13:59:53 <sipa> it's the right tool for the job, but accounts are badly implemented
 717 2014-01-24 13:59:56 <andytoshi> not insecure, just a giant pain in the ass
 718 2014-01-24 14:00:12 gribble has joined
 719 2014-01-24 14:00:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: sent a few blocks your way
 720 2014-01-24 14:00:25 typex has joined
 721 2014-01-24 14:00:34 <vite> thanks
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 723 2014-01-24 14:00:42 <songz> hmmmm that makes sense.
 724 2014-01-24 14:00:48 wild_bill has joined
 725 2014-01-24 14:01:06 <songz> thank you @sipa and @andytoshi, I wouldn't have known about this
 726 2014-01-24 14:01:18 <songz> thanks for preventing me from running down the wrong path, lol
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 728 2014-01-24 14:01:20 <vite> lol my cpu mines at 1.1 mhs sloooooooow
 729 2014-01-24 14:01:35 <kjj> I can't think of any single feature that has inflicted more pain and suffering on the bitcoin user population than accounts
 730 2014-01-24 14:01:52 The_Fly has joined
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 732 2014-01-24 14:02:28 <songz> how do you generate a new wallet for each user?
 733 2014-01-24 14:02:44 <songz> I cant find anything on bitcoin.it wiki page
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 737 2014-01-24 14:03:14 rdymac has joined
 738 2014-01-24 14:03:23 <songz> and how do you guys know so much (eg accounts are no good). Is there a better wiki page than bitcoin.it wiki?
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 740 2014-01-24 14:03:30 <vite> songs setaccount, getaccountbalance 'account'
 741 2014-01-24 14:03:39 <vite> songz I think
 742 2014-01-24 14:04:03 <songz> @vite, 3 people just told me that accounts are a really bad idea
 743 2014-01-24 14:04:20 <songz> and I should generate a wallet for each user instead...
 744 2014-01-24 14:04:26 <sipa> songz: hell no!
 745 2014-01-24 14:04:32 <songz> oh. oops
 746 2014-01-24 14:04:44 <sipa> songz: you should have one wallet for you, and maintain the user's balances in your own databases separately
 747 2014-01-24 14:05:16 <sipa> basically doing what accounts do, but yourself, not inside bitcoind
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 749 2014-01-24 14:05:50 <songz> ohhhhhh
 750 2014-01-24 14:06:14 <songz> and you say this because bitcoind's account implementation is buggy?
 751 2014-01-24 14:06:43 macboz_ has joined
 752 2014-01-24 14:06:43 <Luke-Jr> not buggy, just doesn't scale
 753 2014-01-24 14:07:01 testnode9 has joined
 754 2014-01-24 14:07:04 <Luke-Jr> and might not have the exact behaviour you're looking for
 755 2014-01-24 14:07:07 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 756 2014-01-24 14:07:18 <sipa> and will cause problems if you ever need to restore a backup
 757 2014-01-24 14:07:53 <songz> I see
 758 2014-01-24 14:08:11 <songz> so I create a database to replicate account functionality
 759 2014-01-24 14:08:28 <songz> and everytime a user joins, I call getnewaddress and associated that address with that user
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 766 2014-01-24 14:09:01 <Luke-Jr> songz: no.
 767 2014-01-24 14:09:14 <songz> hmmm
 768 2014-01-24 14:09:19 <Luke-Jr> songz: addresses are per-transaction, not per-user
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 770 2014-01-24 14:09:22 <vite> Luke-Jr, in layman term what does not scale mean?
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 773 2014-01-24 14:09:47 <Luke-Jr> vite: can't handle more than a few hundred users?
 774 2014-01-24 14:10:13 <vite> oic thats why its not an ideal feature
 775 2014-01-24 14:10:37 wallet42 has joined
 776 2014-01-24 14:10:38 <songz> Lets say alice joins my site for the first time and I want to send her a few coins. How do I proceed? Alice does not have a public address
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 786 2014-01-24 14:12:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|vite: sent a few blocks your way
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 789 2014-01-24 14:13:04 <vite> wonder if i'll find any
 790 2014-01-24 14:13:23 <vite> gonna leave this thing running through the day to see how it works
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 795 2014-01-24 14:14:50 <Luke-Jr> songz: if you want to send Alice coins, you ask her for an address
 796 2014-01-24 14:15:42 <songz> and if she doesn't have a wallet? I should generate an address for her correct?
 797 2014-01-24 14:16:01 <Luke-Jr> if she doesn't have a wallet, she has no way to hold bitcoins..
 798 2014-01-24 14:16:25 agricocb has joined
 799 2014-01-24 14:16:41 <songz> thats true... but say I'm building an bitcoin game
 800 2014-01-24 14:17:24 <songz> in order for the game to progress and ensure money flows, Alice has to 'deposit' btc into the game account?
 801 2014-01-24 14:18:22 _yoy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 802 2014-01-24 14:18:23 <vite> songz what I do for newcomers is take the time to call them and explain how bitcoin wallets work and what options are readily available at the bitcoin.org, that way Its great cust experience and it gets new people into the network.
 803 2014-01-24 14:18:31 WKNiGHT has joined
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 805 2014-01-24 14:18:47 <Luke-Jr> songz: right, so you create a new address, and note in your database that it's a deposit for Alice
 806 2014-01-24 14:18:56 <sipa> songz: any time alice wants to deposit, she clicks some button which gives an address
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 808 2014-01-24 14:19:05 <Luke-Jr> songz: then when you see the address receive the funds, you wait for it to confirm and increase the value on Alice's account
 809 2014-01-24 14:20:12 <songz> makes sense. so every customer in my app will have an array of addresses
 810 2014-01-24 14:20:18 <songz> that my databases will keep track of
 811 2014-01-24 14:20:54 <songz> and I simply ignore the accounts capability of bitcoind!
 812 2014-01-24 14:21:00 <songz> that about sums it up?
 813 2014-01-24 14:21:07 <Luke-Jr> sure
 814 2014-01-24 14:21:25 <songz> thanks @vite, but I've been through it before coming into the chat room :)
 815 2014-01-24 14:21:26 sassamo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 816 2014-01-24 14:21:33 <songz> great! Thanks Luke!
 817 2014-01-24 14:21:52 sassamo has joined
 818 2014-01-24 14:22:00 <songz> I'm starting a series of screencasts for bitcoin-dev, so all these information is very helpful
 819 2014-01-24 14:22:04 <songz> thanks alot guys!
 820 2014-01-24 14:22:23 <vite> Luke-Jr, what about using the accounts feature to create a ops account, hotwallet, and a coldwallet sweep?
 821 2014-01-24 14:22:36 _yoy_ has joined
 822 2014-01-24 14:24:37 <andytoshi> vite: accounts feature definitely cannot make a hotwallet
 823 2014-01-24 14:25:25 <andytoshi> oh, i sorta see .. still no, better to just move money to the coldwallet whenever your hot balance is too high
 824 2014-01-24 14:25:57 <vite> atm on our side we just sweep everything to the cold wallet
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 826 2014-01-24 14:26:42 <vite> and decided to do manual transactions for outgoing to avoid theft
 827 2014-01-24 14:27:11 <andytoshi> cool, if that works for you that's the way to go
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 830 2014-01-24 14:27:31 <Luke-Jr> vite: should just have everything go directly to cold wallet then
 831 2014-01-24 14:27:35 <Luke-Jr> no hot wallet at all
 832 2014-01-24 14:28:05 <vite> Luke-Jr, how do I identify incoming from new customers trying to exchange to USD?
 833 2014-01-24 14:28:33 <Luke-Jr> vite: you use a new address for every transaction
 834 2014-01-24 14:28:45 rdymac has joined
 835 2014-01-24 14:28:45 <vite> then I sweep to the cold wallet
 836 2014-01-24 14:30:11 giustoXricordarv has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 837 2014-01-24 14:32:02 <vite> and there is still a danger of people gaining access to the encrypted wallet and replacing it with their own wallet. How do I go about that?
 838 2014-01-24 14:32:57 <Luke-Jr> vite: there's no need to sweep, just have it go direct to cold wallet
 839 2014-01-24 14:36:27 <andytoshi> vite: you need to have addresses associated to users via some sort of database, yes? so you know the addresses independently of bitcoind
 840 2014-01-24 14:36:35 <andytoshi> use -blocknotify to watch for spends to those addresses
 841 2014-01-24 14:36:41 <andytoshi> then you don't need any hot wallet
 842 2014-01-24 14:37:48 <kjj> wait, what?
 843 2014-01-24 14:38:09 <vite> andytoshi, if they gain access to the database, then they can replace it with their own addresses. bad id
 844 2014-01-24 14:38:16 sassamo has joined
 845 2014-01-24 14:38:26 <Luke-Jr> vite: nothing you can do about that
 846 2014-01-24 14:38:28 <andytoshi> vite: you need to associate addresses to users somehow :)
 847 2014-01-24 14:38:35 <kjj> I suspect that if an attacker gains write access to your server, you have much bigger problems
 848 2014-01-24 14:40:21 <vite> kjj, true hehe, hope that never happens
 849 2014-01-24 14:41:35 <andytoshi> vite: so, you can make the web user for the DB have only permission to add entries to the address/user table, not modify them
 850 2014-01-24 14:41:44 <andytoshi> then an attacker at least needs to do some DB fiddling
 851 2014-01-24 14:42:03 sipa has left ()
 852 2014-01-24 14:42:05 <andytoshi> which means he'd pretty-much have to break into your server, ordinary website breaks would not be sufficient
 853 2014-01-24 14:43:15 <andytoshi> ofc you'd want to have enough addresses in the DB for a few days or weeks, however long you think it'd take you to notice an attack :}
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 860 2014-01-24 14:45:37 <Luke-Jr> or just use pycoin to generate them :P
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 862 2014-01-24 14:46:26 <helo> you can validate the use of addresses from a machine completely outside of your web/publicly facing systems, right?
 863 2014-01-24 14:46:37 <vite> helo thats what i do
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 867 2014-01-24 14:47:07 <helo> it should be pretty easy to tell if someone were to replace your addresses with theirs
 868 2014-01-24 14:48:01 <vite> helo, I run a script that compares wallets to make sure that the wallet on the public side is always the right one
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 886 2014-01-24 14:58:38 <phungus> hey anyone know anything about pywallet and what would cause a version 0.6 wallet to report "The wallet is encrypted but no passphrase is used"?
 887 2014-01-24 14:59:36 <phungus>    "walletversion" : 60000,
 888 2014-01-24 15:00:16 <phungus> I have had to use bitcoind version 60006 just to load this old wallet.dat up
 889 2014-01-24 15:00:28 <phungus> later versions seem to choke for some reason
 890 2014-01-24 15:01:08 <andytoshi> phungus: what does getinfo say?
 891 2014-01-24 15:01:26 <andytoshi> does it have unlocked_until?
 892 2014-01-24 15:01:37 <phungus> one sec
 893 2014-01-24 15:01:45 <phungus>    "unlocked_until" : 0,
 894 2014-01-24 15:02:23 <andytoshi> hmm, that does indicate encryption .. and if you try to do a dumpprivkey it fails?
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 896 2014-01-24 15:02:42 <phungus> no I have a dump but at the top it says that a passphrase is not used
 897 2014-01-24 15:02:53 <phungus> I was able to dump all the keys and such
 898 2014-01-24 15:03:00 <andytoshi> weird
 899 2014-01-24 15:03:06 <phungus> I am unable to unlock it at all
 900 2014-01-24 15:03:14 <phungus> with passphrase of "", etc
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 903 2014-01-24 15:04:18 <phungus> I wish I could figure it out as there is a lot of btc in this wallet
 904 2014-01-24 15:04:23 <phungus> well, a lot is relative
 905 2014-01-24 15:04:27 <phungus> :-)
 906 2014-01-24 15:04:30 <andytoshi> :P
 907 2014-01-24 15:04:43 <andytoshi> if you can dump the private keys then you can get the money out..
 908 2014-01-24 15:05:02 <phungus> I was able to dump them but I'm not seeing how to get around the decrypt issue
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 912 2014-01-24 15:11:21 <vite> if I want to play around with a UI interface for desktop use and bitcoind, whats better to rpc or to tell the UI to send commands via the system?
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 915 2014-01-24 15:11:50 <helo> phungus: create a new wallet and import the private keys
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 919 2014-01-24 15:12:17 <phungus> helo: hmm, I can try that
 920 2014-01-24 15:12:49 <ZjP> pywallet did something similar to me, I forget how, but it all worked itself out. The pywallet messages about passphrases were deceptive somehow
 921 2014-01-24 15:13:01 <helo> i suppose you'd want to send to addressses from a wallet that is properly encrypted and not acting weird asap
 922 2014-01-24 15:13:13 <helo> s/addresses/an address/
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 933 2014-01-24 15:20:06 <pixelgremlins> hey, I'm building an altcoin. I'm to the finishing stages, and hit a snag... I've got the main genesis block. I've tested on the testnet, etc... I just pushed changes to my VPS, and when I run make I keep getting errors and it always locks on bitcoinrpc.cpp then throws an error : g++ internal compiler error : Killed (program cc1plus) .. is there a log file, or verbose option when making?
 934 2014-01-24 15:20:54 <Luke-Jr> pixelgremlins: this is #bitcoin-dev, not #scamcoins
 935 2014-01-24 15:22:22 <helo> pixelgremlins: c++ compiler/build problems probably belong in #c++
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 937 2014-01-24 15:25:22 <pixelgremlins> it's not a scam, -- I'm building a pool, online wallet, and other infrastructure before launch. No-premine(except testing--but those will be donated split w/ all early adopters).. It's called BrainzCoin and is the currency of the Zombie apocalypse, -- sounds cooler to be mining brainz than dogeshit -- sure it might end up being a crap coin, but might take off -- and get traction.
 938 2014-01-24 15:26:05 <Luke-Jr> pixelgremlins: perfect description of a scam, and still off-topic either way
 939 2014-01-24 15:26:51 <pixelgremlins> I'm building bitcoin src, using a bitcoin derivative source..how is that off topic in bitcoin dev?
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 942 2014-01-24 15:27:36 <Luke-Jr> if you have problems with compiling *bitcoin* code, feel free to ask.
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 944 2014-01-24 15:27:50 <Luke-Jr> although even then, the error you're getting is a broken compiler, not bitcoin-related
 945 2014-01-24 15:28:12 <Luke-Jr> or perhaps just out of memory
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 973 2014-01-24 15:50:48 <helo> is it possible to build a "(m of n) && (p of q)" address?
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 975 2014-01-24 15:51:40 <helo> (with n > 1 and q > 1)
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 979 2014-01-24 15:52:40 <gavinandresen> helo: yes, but you will have trouble spending any funds sent to it because it is non-standard
 980 2014-01-24 15:53:09 <helo> right
 981 2014-01-24 15:53:15 <helo> thank you
 982 2014-01-24 15:55:07 <gavinandresen> wumpus: is there some autotools magic that avoids compiling rpc_wallet_tests.cpp if I configure with --disable-wallet ?
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 985 2014-01-24 15:56:57 <gavinandresen> I'm trying to figure out why I don't get a core dump or unit test failure when rpc_wallet_tests.cpp call wallet RPC methods, but it has no #ifdef ENABLE_WALLET
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 991 2014-01-24 15:57:57 <gavinandresen> never mind, I think I see the magic (though I don't understand it)
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1079 2014-01-24 17:40:12 <izanagisan> hi all. Question. If I install the Bitcoin-qt client on a Linux server and develop an application, is it correct to think all the coins on my application will be on the same WALLET, even if they are on many, many different ACCOUNTS??
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1083 2014-01-24 17:44:54 <helo> izanagisan: this is better for #bitcoin... not really a development question
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1091 2014-01-24 17:46:08 <izanagisan> a question about the Bitcoin-qt client, for the purpose of developing an application, on a Linux server?
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1093 2014-01-24 17:47:02 <izanagisan> to ensure that my users will have access to their bitcoins and that I'm able to make backups of their Bitcoins ina secure way, is better for the general #bitcoin channel?
1094 2014-01-24 17:47:59 <izanagisan> I'm not asking cynically or anything
1095 2014-01-24 17:48:11 <helo> well, we're going to have to explain a lot about how bitcoin addresses/accounts work, which is teaching, not development.
1096 2014-01-24 17:48:17 <izanagisan> I just thoght this channel was for general developers tryint to USE Bitcoin
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1098 2014-01-24 17:48:33 <izanagisan> if this channel is for developing Bitcoin itself, I 100% understand this is NOT the place for my questions
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1101 2014-01-24 17:49:29 <helo> topic starts with "Development of the Bitcoin"
1102 2014-01-24 17:49:44 <BlueMatt> anyone in miami, btw?
1103 2014-01-24 17:50:17 <izanagisan> helo: you're right. Is there a recommended channel for developers that want to use Bitcoin for their applications, to make the coin itelf grow, etc?
1104 2014-01-24 17:51:20 <izanagisan> I really want to learn but I was hoping there was a community here on Freenode dedicated to helping developers make sound and secure applications with Bitcoin
1105 2014-01-24 17:51:40 <helo> izanagisan: not that i'm aware of. usually it goes 1) understand how bitcoin works, 2) develop your application. usually there are people in #bitcoin to help with 1)
1106 2014-01-24 17:51:55 <jcorgan> izanagisan: those discussions would be a welcome addition to #bitcoin
1107 2014-01-24 17:52:02 <izanagisan> helo: ok, thanks for the help. I'll rely o the Wiki as well
1108 2014-01-24 17:52:29 <jcorgan> and kudos to you for at least thinking ahead about how to do things right, instead of just throwing something together on a whim
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1111 2014-01-24 17:53:21 <izanagisan> I've seen SO many people developing applications and THEN worying about security and even backups, I guess I'm scared Bitcoin itself will suffer from general developers mediocrity
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1113 2014-01-24 17:54:10 <izanagisan> plus I literally CANT handle people's money irresponsibly. It's 100% real money. Developers should be at least a little scared
1114 2014-01-24 17:54:12 <jcorgan> i think the history of hacked websites and lost coins speaks for itself in that regard
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1116 2014-01-24 17:54:41 <izanagisan> well thanks to all and I'll continue my quest to secure Bitcoin developement
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1120 2014-01-24 17:59:50 <andytoshi> izanagisan: check http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-faq.pdf
1121 2014-01-24 18:00:27 <izanagisan> only one observation: I see the general #bitcoin channel plagued by many different topics and clueless users asking repetitive questions. Maybe the community would benefit from a channel specifically for developers that want to use Bitcoin
1122 2014-01-24 18:00:33 <andytoshi> (helo is right that this isn't really a #-dev question, but a one-link answer is fine and #bitcoin is innundated with shitposters as of an hour ago)
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1124 2014-01-24 18:01:03 <andytoshi> izanagisan: agreed. #cryptodev is trying to be this, though not quite succeeding
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1126 2014-01-24 18:02:24 <izanagisan> andytoshi: will check that channel and help in whatever I can
1127 2014-01-24 18:03:18 <izanagisan> andytoshi: also reading your FAQ
1128 2014-01-24 18:04:01 <andytoshi> awesome, thx. i think i should rename the link, "bitcoin-faq.pdf" is not very descriptive and feels a bit condescending since anybody aware of the accounts feature is not quite a newbie..
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1289 2014-01-24 21:04:30 <doll> Hey, was wondering if there were any miners around who were willing to field a few questions
1290 2014-01-24 21:04:45 sassamo has joined
1291 2014-01-24 21:04:48 <sipa> you may have better luck on #bitcoin-mining or #bitcoin
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1295 2014-01-24 21:05:44 <f1ay> sipa: Thanks, hadnt checked the full list.
1296 2014-01-24 21:05:53 <f1ay> Regards.
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1315 2014-01-24 21:32:53 <EasyAt> What files contain the peer discovery code?
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1318 2014-01-24 21:33:11 <sipa> addrman, main, net
1319 2014-01-24 21:33:16 <EasyAt> ty sipa
1320 2014-01-24 21:34:15 <interdpth> Hello, how do you grab current transaction fee before sending a transaction?
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1322 2014-01-24 21:34:48 <sipa> define "current transaction fee"
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1329 2014-01-24 21:37:39 <EasyAt> Is there a class digram for bitcoin?
1330 2014-01-24 21:37:51 <EasyAt> bitcoin reference client*
1331 2014-01-24 21:38:02 <interdpth> well when sending coins, the fee changes
1332 2014-01-24 21:38:18 <interdpth> I need to grab or calculate the fee before the transaction is sent
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1334 2014-01-24 21:38:30 <interdpth> Can't find any good examples with googles
1335 2014-01-24 21:38:41 <interdpth> both googles.
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1339 2014-01-24 21:40:52 <sipa> interdpth: if you use the raw transaction API, you control everything yourself
1340 2014-01-24 21:41:09 <sipa> interdpth: if you let the wallet code build the transaction, the fee is set to whatever is considered necessary for relay
1341 2014-01-24 21:41:45 <sipa> i think we need something in between, where you can ask the wallet code to create a transaction, but not broadcast it
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1348 2014-01-24 21:50:43 <EasyAt> Output selection would be very neat
1349 2014-01-24 21:52:00 <interdpth> Well we set the TX fee
1350 2014-01-24 21:52:14 <interdpth> then sent from an account in the daemon
1351 2014-01-24 21:52:22 <interdpth> and it applied differently everytime
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1354 2014-01-24 21:54:42 <sipa> you set the fee per kilobyte
1355 2014-01-24 21:54:54 <sipa> the fee in the actual transaction depends on its size
1356 2014-01-24 21:55:02 <phantomcircuit> the fee calculation isn't deterministic
1357 2014-01-24 21:55:06 <sipa> that too
1358 2014-01-24 21:55:11 <EasyAt> sipa:  are there plans for output selection?
1359 2014-01-24 21:55:28 <phantomcircuit> the transaction generation isn't deterministic
1360 2014-01-24 21:56:05 <sipa> EasyAt: not afaik, but i wouldn't be opposed to it
1361 2014-01-24 21:56:59 <EasyAt> Where would be the appropriate place to propose an implementation?
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1364 2014-01-24 21:58:00 <phantomcircuit> EasyAt, there is already output selection in git head
1365 2014-01-24 21:58:03 <phantomcircuit> using coincontrol
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1367 2014-01-24 21:58:12 <phantomcircuit> oh that's input selection
1368 2014-01-24 21:58:35 <EasyAt> I suppose that's what I mean
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1370 2014-01-24 21:58:43 <EasyAt> Select the outputs to spend in this TX
1371 2014-01-24 21:58:45 <davec> so I noticed that the rpc getaddednodeinfo call returns a JSON object with duplicate keys.  {"addednode":"1.2.3.4","addednode":"5.6.7.8"}.  Most parsers won't handle that correctly.  For exmaple, if you paste that into http://jsonlint.com/, look at the result. I would suggest that is changed to an array of strings.
1372 2014-01-24 21:59:29 <phantomcircuit> EasyAt, in that case it's already in git head
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1374 2014-01-24 22:00:05 <gavinandresen> davec: can you file a bug?  That should definitely get fixed.
1375 2014-01-24 22:00:15 <davec> gavinandresen: will do
1376 2014-01-24 22:00:21 <ppvkignx> i'm curious, is this channel for bitcoin dev or bitcoin-related dev? Guessing the former, looking for the latter
1377 2014-01-24 22:01:06 <sipa> ppvkignx: bitcoin protocol and clients connected to it
1378 2014-01-24 22:01:19 <EasyAt> phantomcircuit: Was it a recent addition?
1379 2014-01-24 22:01:25 <sipa> not "where can i find a developer to write me a bitcoin betting site"
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1382 2014-01-24 22:01:37 <sipa> phantomcircuit: in git head? what are you talking about?
1383 2014-01-24 22:01:54 <sipa> afaik you only have sendtoaddress/sendfrom/sendmany and createrawtransaction
1384 2014-01-24 22:01:57 <andytoshi> ppvkignx: #cryptodev might be what you want
1385 2014-01-24 22:02:01 <sipa> here you need something in between
1386 2014-01-24 22:02:12 <gavinandresen> davec: you sure it is broken?  According to the help, getaddednodeinfo returns an array of objects
1387 2014-01-24 22:02:18 <ppvkignx> ok, thanks sipa and andytoshi
1388 2014-01-24 22:02:55 <phantomcircuit> sipa, in the gui no in rpc
1389 2014-01-24 22:03:11 <phantomcircuit> in rpc you can do it with createrawtransaction
1390 2014-01-24 22:03:16 <sipa> phantomcircuit: no, you can't
1391 2014-01-24 22:03:25 <sipa> createrawtransaction doesn't do input selection
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1393 2014-01-24 22:03:59 <gavinandresen> … there could be a createwallettransaction...
1394 2014-01-24 22:04:21 <EasyAt> sipa: In the wiki for createrawtx it says: "Creates a raw transaction spending given inputs."
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1396 2014-01-24 22:05:25 <davec> > bitcoind getaddednodeinfo false
1397 2014-01-24 22:05:25 <davec> > {
1398 2014-01-24 22:05:25 <davec> >    "addednode" : "1.2.3.4",
1399 2014-01-24 22:05:25 <davec> >    "addednode" : "5.6.7.8"
1400 2014-01-24 22:05:28 <davec> > }
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1402 2014-01-24 22:05:38 <phantomcircuit> sipa, wait im confused, input for the created transaction, or outputs
1403 2014-01-24 22:06:01 <davec> gavinandresen: with the dns flag set to true, it is an array of objs
1404 2014-01-24 22:06:05 <sipa> phantomcircuit: what was requested here is an RPC procedure which would allow seeing the created transaction before sending it
1405 2014-01-24 22:06:05 <phantomcircuit> because createrawtransaction lets you pick the outputs you're spending
1406 2014-01-24 22:06:17 <phantomcircuit> oh
1407 2014-01-24 22:06:18 <sipa> phantomcircuit: most people don't want to choose the outputs themself
1408 2014-01-24 22:06:26 <phantomcircuit> right you'd have to implement the selection yourself
1409 2014-01-24 22:06:30 <gavinandresen> davec: ah, yeah.  Definitely file a bug, getaddednodeinfo false should just return an aray of IP strings.
1410 2014-01-24 22:06:49 <EasyAt> Yea, a nice way to pick inputs to your TX would be excellant
1411 2014-01-24 22:06:52 <davec> filing it now
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1413 2014-01-24 22:08:23 <sipa> gavinandresen: or completerawtransaction, which uses wallet coins to fill in appropriate inputs for a raw transaction that already has outputs
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1415 2014-01-24 22:11:22 <davec> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3581
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1437 2014-01-24 22:41:29 <shesek> sipa, how will it work though if you don't have an exactly sized inputs? the outputs should contain a change, but you only know that after picking the inputs
1438 2014-01-24 22:41:33 <shesek> will it also add a change output?
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1440 2014-01-24 22:44:13 <shesek> and I kinda like constructing transactions manually and cherry pick the inputs... I usually avoid the GUI and do that with bitcoind, but that's probably just me :P
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1445 2014-01-24 22:48:01 <Apocalyptic> "and do that with bitcoind" nope, I do that too
1446 2014-01-24 22:48:20 <Apocalyptic> although Luke says bitcoind is not a wallet and should only be used by automated scripts
1447 2014-01-24 22:48:35 <midnightmagic> lol
1448 2014-01-24 22:48:43 <Apocalyptic> but then it's Luke :)
1449 2014-01-24 22:49:13 <midnightmagic> any text/commandline user who is comfortable using non-gui interfaces should be fine with it.
1450 2014-01-24 22:50:52 <Apocalyptic> that's my opinion
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1460 2014-01-24 22:52:47 <octocodercat> Ok, I'm getting a build error on Xubuntu 13.10
1461 2014-01-24 22:52:47 EngierkO has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1462 2014-01-24 22:52:49 <octocodercat> http://pastebin.com/LatvHwyT
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1466 2014-01-24 22:53:06 <octocodercat> my configure options are --with-incompatible-bdb
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1468 2014-01-24 22:53:12 <octocodercat> oh, and --disable-miniupnpc
1469 2014-01-24 22:53:29 <octocodercat> the command I'm running is sudo make install(it needs root to install in /usr)
1470 2014-01-24 22:53:47 <octocodercat> oh, my bad, not 13.10, 12.10
1471 2014-01-24 22:53:55 <octocodercat> anyone know what's up?
1472 2014-01-24 22:54:27 <octocodercat> I just waited an hour for the darn thing to build, so I'm pissed at my computer xD
1473 2014-01-24 22:55:04 <sipa> shesek: right, it would need to add a change output too
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1479 2014-01-24 22:57:27 <octocodercat> and I don't have much time since in a few minutes i'm going back to my 100 Kbps home connetion for a week :(
1480 2014-01-24 22:57:42 <shesek> damn it http://xona.com/domainhacks/search?q=wallet, I thought wall.et was available for a moment
1481 2014-01-24 22:57:56 <shesek> but they don't allow registering domains directly under .et apparently :(
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1483 2014-01-24 22:58:14 <octocodercat> should I just make clean and make again?
1484 2014-01-24 22:58:15 <shesek> its impossible to find good domain names, everything "bit"-related is squated
1485 2014-01-24 22:58:41 <shesek> and I'm not very creative to think of non-"bit"-related names :)
1486 2014-01-24 22:59:05 <octocodercat> shesek: maybe coin* domains?
1487 2014-01-24 22:59:21 <octocodercat> coinchat(taken) coinmmo(taken) and such
1488 2014-01-24 23:01:22 <shesek> I tried with coin*, lots of them are taken too
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