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   5 2014-01-29 00:03:57 <jgarzik> blockchain.info releases their coinjoin code, https://github.com/blockchain/Sharedcoin
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   9 2014-01-29 00:05:36 <devrandom> funny: http://www.icanbarelydraw.com/comic/
  10 2014-01-29 00:05:40 <Ademan-remote> ah still centralized
  11 2014-01-29 00:06:02 <justanotheruser> I dream of a world where we have decentralized comics
  12 2014-01-29 00:06:46 <Ademan-remote> justanotheruser: I mean the credit card system! Are they nuts?
  13 2014-01-29 00:07:19 <justanotheruser> Ademan-remote: that comic illustrates bitcoins use pretty well
  14 2014-01-29 00:07:29 <justanotheruser> honestly I don't see why credit cards don't work the same way
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  18 2014-01-29 00:11:52 <brisque> jgarzik: interesting that it's bitcoinj, I wasn't expecting that.
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  24 2014-01-29 00:18:57 <brisque> jgarzik: https://github.com/blockchain/Sharedcoin/commit/efb4c712a176b5d80f17d04f437f147f0a1039e1#diff-eb215df10bf99447deff1be803570019L123
  25 2014-01-29 00:20:10 <brisque> I'm sure they've changed it now, but there's nothing quite like hardcoded API keys.
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  30 2014-01-29 00:25:06 <Ademan-remote> are there any alternatives to TP's testnet faucet?
  31 2014-01-29 00:25:47 <Ademan-remote> nvm, I should RTFM more
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  62 2014-01-29 00:58:32 <lechuga_> any1 know much about ripple?
  63 2014-01-29 00:58:48 <lechuga_> curious what the #bitcoin-dev view is on them
  64 2014-01-29 01:01:28 <lianj> i o u
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  66 2014-01-29 01:09:30 <lechuga_> ?
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  71 2014-01-29 01:13:10 <lechuga_> ah just got lianj's reference
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 109 2014-01-29 02:11:21 <ProfMac> I want to read the code that decides which chain to use/orphan.  I want to clarify the "length" vs "total difficulty" ideas.  Can someone point me to a source file name, and an identifier or line number to search?
 110 2014-01-29 02:15:38 <sipa> ProfMac: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.8.6/src/main.cpp#L1243
 111 2014-01-29 02:16:02 <sipa> setBlockIndexValid contains references to all valid blocks, ordered by amount of work
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 116 2014-01-29 02:29:00 <ProfMac> sipa, thanks.
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 118 2014-01-29 02:34:48 <swulf--> sipa: i had a thought about bip70, the payment protocol and was wondering what you thought
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 124 2014-01-29 02:53:03 <ProfMac> also  ?  [20:04] <sipa> ProfMac: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.8.6/src/main.cpp#L2585
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 142 2014-01-29 03:22:34 <super3> is Luke-Jr around? i'm just about done with proof-of-pizza
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 150 2014-01-29 03:35:40 <ProfMac> what is proof-of-pizza?
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 158 2014-01-29 03:42:23 <Luke-Jr> super3:
 159 2014-01-29 03:42:33 <Luke-Jr> what are you doing with it?
 160 2014-01-29 03:42:37 <brisque> Luke-Jr: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437841.0
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 183 2014-01-29 04:07:39 <SomeoneWeird> super3, lol that's great
 184 2014-01-29 04:08:33 <super3> ha ha, have Luke-Jr and TheBlueMatt to thank
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 261 2014-01-29 06:35:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|super3: what's proof of pizza?
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 264 2014-01-29 06:37:36 <justanotheruser> michagogo|cloud: pretty cool. It is ASIC resistant and has backing of 3 bitcoin devs.
 265 2014-01-29 06:37:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...uh
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 277 2014-01-29 06:46:32 <sipa> justanotheruser: baking, not backing
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 289 2014-01-29 07:07:02 <monolithik> anyone have some unused testnet coins they can send me? the faucet seems to be broken
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 292 2014-01-29 07:14:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|monolithik: I'm not at my computer atm, or I would send you some
 293 2014-01-29 07:14:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(And I can easily give you unused ones)
 294 2014-01-29 07:14:38 <Luke-Jr> monolithik: you forgot to give an address
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 300 2014-01-29 07:17:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I think next time someone does that I'll mine them a block onto a new address and just give them the privkey
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 307 2014-01-29 07:23:36 <monolithik> thanks Luke-Jr & michagogo|cloud, someone else in #bitcoin sent me some already.
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 363 2014-01-29 08:24:06 <McJuicy> hey guys, I have a question about getting started on developing the bitcoind client
 364 2014-01-29 08:24:36 <McJuicy> what IDE / program should I use to get an overview of the code
 365 2014-01-29 08:25:05 <McJuicy> I can understand the pieces, but I'm having a hard time understanding the project as a whole.
 366 2014-01-29 08:25:11 <McJuicy> Any suggestions?
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 392 2014-01-29 08:46:22 <sipa> MCM-Mike: i personally don't use an ide
 393 2014-01-29 08:46:49 <sipa> i think the people working on the gui use qt creator
 394 2014-01-29 08:47:12 <sipa> eh
 395 2014-01-29 08:47:19 <wumpus> the guy left already...
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 409 2014-01-29 09:19:28 <stonecoldpat> whats the best method to read the block chain on your computer?
 410 2014-01-29 09:19:44 <stonecoldpat> (so parse it through another program)
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 415 2014-01-29 09:29:06 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: depends on what you want to do, you can access the blockchain from bitcoind with 'getblockhash' and 'getblock' command
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 418 2014-01-29 09:30:28 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: you can get the parsed as well as unparsed data
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 496 2014-01-29 11:27:01 <stonecoldpat> wumpus: I want to do some analysis of the entire chain, so im not sure if those websites provide that type of service (being able to query each transaction)
 497 2014-01-29 11:27:23 <stonecoldpat> wumpus: i know the blockchain is stored locally, not sure if someone has made a program that can do magic on it
 498 2014-01-29 11:29:44 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: I'm not talking about a website
 499 2014-01-29 11:29:59 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: I just mentioned RPC commands which are already part of bitcoind
 500 2014-01-29 11:30:13 <wumpus> no need for any external website
 501 2014-01-29 11:31:32 <stonecoldpat> ahhhh ok
 502 2014-01-29 11:31:35 <stonecoldpat> i understand what you mean haha sorry
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 504 2014-01-29 11:32:10 <wumpus> you can easily use those to go over the entire blockchain
 505 2014-01-29 11:32:13 <stonecoldpat> i understand now, ill have a look into that method
 506 2014-01-29 11:32:21 <stonecoldpat> yeah thanks for the heads up
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 560 2014-01-29 12:41:12 <abishek> how do I get the balance of my wallet using RPC with minConf>=5
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 563 2014-01-29 12:42:21 <wumpus> getbalance "*" 5 ?
 564 2014-01-29 12:42:50 <abishek> wumpus, * indicates all accounts?
 565 2014-01-29 12:43:07 <wumpus> it's a bit sneaky as it's not mentioned in the help
 566 2014-01-29 12:43:11 <wumpus> yes it means all
 567 2014-01-29 12:43:34 <abishek> yes, i had spent about an hour to figure this out. Thnx a lot
 568 2014-01-29 12:43:50 <wumpus> pretty misleading, it doesn't do anything with accounts actually when you speicfy "*"
 569 2014-01-29 12:44:14 <sipa> yeah, i wish there were separate calls getbalance and getaccountbalance :)
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 571 2014-01-29 12:44:29 <sipa> so we could scrap the accounts stuff without leaving legacy arguments in old rpcs
 572 2014-01-29 12:44:32 <sipa> :)
 573 2014-01-29 12:44:42 <wumpus> I guess JSON null would have been better for leaving out non-used arguments, instead of giving a special magical value of '*', but hey it's impossible to change anymore
 574 2014-01-29 12:44:46 <wumpus> sipa: yes!
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 579 2014-01-29 12:47:05 <disident> Hello, where/how can i get testnets coins quick ?
 580 2014-01-29 12:47:05 <disident> thanks
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 591 2014-01-29 12:56:31 <wumpus> anyway, updated the doc and examples https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3597/files
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 593 2014-01-29 12:57:14 <abishek> wumpus, I am using PHP to make RPC calls, when there is an error on the RPC call, how do I get the error message? All I receive is a HTTP 500 error. thats all
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 595 2014-01-29 12:58:53 <wumpus> abishek: you should get a more detailed error structure with the error
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 599 2014-01-29 13:00:28 <wumpus> (the resulting object has a non-null "error" field if there was an error)
 600 2014-01-29 13:00:40 <CodeShark> abishek, I would highly recommend testing out the RPC calls by using a command line tool like curl before attempting any integration with any apps
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 602 2014-01-29 13:01:21 <abishek> CodeShark, with curl, it works but when I perform an RPC call using an RPC client, it throws an error and I am not able to understand what is causing it
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 604 2014-01-29 13:02:35 <CodeShark> 500 server error doesn't sound like bitcoind
 605 2014-01-29 13:03:20 <wumpus> the 500 is generated here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpcserver.cpp#L342
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 608 2014-01-29 13:04:16 <CodeShark> hmm
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 610 2014-01-29 13:04:48 <wumpus> I don't think it's nice to return a HTTP level error in case of an application error, but it's always been like that and it would be near-impossible to change
 611 2014-01-29 13:06:07 <abishek> its so difficult to actually understand what the error is, atleast if it get written to a log file on bitcoin as to what the error was, will be helpful to understand
 612 2014-01-29 13:06:47 <wumpus> is there a way to still get the received data when it signals an error? ie, you need the message attached to the 500 response
 613 2014-01-29 13:06:52 <abishek> all am doing is calling the sendfrom(account, address, amount, 5, desc); and it is throwing an error.
 614 2014-01-29 13:07:01 <wumpus> I don't know enough about PHP to tell
 615 2014-01-29 13:07:47 <CodeShark> I remember the php jsonrpcclient class being a bitch to use for error handling
 616 2014-01-29 13:08:07 <abishek> wumpus, but this is more a general question, to my understanding if this is the case in PHP, then it also is the case with the other languages right?
 617 2014-01-29 13:08:14 <CodeShark> so if you're going to use php, ditch any such wrappers and just use the curl library
 618 2014-01-29 13:09:19 <wumpus> abishek: yes, in the languages I know it's pretty easy to get the message no matter what the HTTP response code, it's just different per language/framework...
 619 2014-01-29 13:10:22 <CodeShark> in principle error 500 should be reserved for internal server configuration issues and other such stuff when you don't want to expose the details of the issue to the caller
 620 2014-01-29 13:10:38 <wumpus> preaching to the choir CodeShark :)
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 630 2014-01-29 13:15:19 <gavinandresen> wumpus: why would it be near impossible to change?
 631 2014-01-29 13:16:01 <disident> where can i get free test net coins ?
 632 2014-01-29 13:16:04 <gavinandresen> wumpus: if you have handle-500-error-code that does not get called, you should STILL have handle-error-set-in-JSON-code that does the right thing
 633 2014-01-29 13:16:22 <gavinandresen> wumpus: (thinking about compatibility….)
 634 2014-01-29 13:16:33 <CodeShark> any well-written client shouldn't break
 635 2014-01-29 13:16:46 <CodeShark> however, not all clients necessarily are well-written :)
 636 2014-01-29 13:16:57 <wumpus> gavinandresen: because it's impossible to know what people did on the client side, if there ever is a RPC redesign this should be taken into account of course
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 638 2014-01-29 13:17:56 <gavinandresen> mmm.  I'd vote for always returning 200, and letting badly written clients break.
 639 2014-01-29 13:17:59 <abishek> wumpus, CodeShark, crap, found the issue. the amount that I was passing was '0.0001' and it should be 0.0001, it should be a decimal and not a string...
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 641 2014-01-29 13:19:02 <gavinandresen> wumpus: how close do you think we are to tagging 0.9rc1 ?  I think it is time....
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 643 2014-01-29 13:19:17 <wumpus> gavinandresen: I'd still like to merge some pull requests
 644 2014-01-29 13:19:37 <gavinandresen> wumpus: email me a list and I'll help review/test between meetings
 645 2014-01-29 13:19:43 <wumpus> mainly ui stuff
 646 2014-01-29 13:19:44 <wumpus> ok
 647 2014-01-29 13:20:42 <wumpus> also #3581 still needs to be solved but we couldn't agree on a solution
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 652 2014-01-29 13:21:33 <gavinandresen> wumpus: FYI: there is a problem getting the code signing certificate renewed (DNS for bitcoinfoundation.org has the wrong address)… I'm working on resolving that (but I don't control DNS updates for bitcoinfoundation.org and the person who does is being difficult)
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 654 2014-01-29 13:22:52 <wumpus> gavinandresen: so we have to wait for that before being able to do a release anyway
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 656 2014-01-29 13:23:32 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I think if necessary we could have people test an unsigned release candidate
 657 2014-01-29 13:24:11 <gavinandresen> wumpus: un-code-signed, that is, it'd still be gitian built and gpg signed of course
 658 2014-01-29 13:24:13 <wumpus> that's true
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 661 2014-01-29 13:29:39 <wumpus> any opinions on #3581 here? should it return a list of records or a list of strings?
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 665 2014-01-29 13:32:39 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I don't care, pick one and go with it.
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 669 2014-01-29 13:33:37 <wumpus> I picked one, then the only person caring about the issue thought it should be the other way around
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 675 2014-01-29 13:37:07 <wumpus> well, going to fix the tab chain in #3585 first then it can be merged, that's the last of the GUI changes that really needs to get in
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 708 2014-01-29 14:04:42 <wumpus> hmm, the bitcoin-qt.exe produced by gitian still has no icon or .exe metadata, let's see why...
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 712 2014-01-29 14:07:39 <wumpus> ah, should be a simple fix
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 747 2014-01-29 14:43:57 <wumpus> gavinandresen: ok, I think 0.9.0rc1 can be tagged
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 750 2014-01-29 14:45:02 <gavinandresen> wumpus: awesome
 751 2014-01-29 14:46:02 <TD> w00t
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 756 2014-01-29 14:52:54 <wallet42> rc1, rc1, rc1 !! :)
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 759 2014-01-29 14:53:55 <jcorgan> congratulations
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 761 2014-01-29 14:54:35 <TD> that's, like, a years worth of work right?
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 765 2014-01-29 14:56:49 <wumpus> TD: almost exactly, I see the release of 0.8.0rc1 was 2013-02-09 15:50
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 772 2014-01-29 15:00:58 <kinlo> very interested to read the release notes
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 774 2014-01-29 15:02:01 <wumpus> those still need to be written
 775 2014-01-29 15:03:44 <Jouke> wil it contain payment protocol?
 776 2014-01-29 15:04:05 <wumpus> yes, it will contain everything that is in the master branchr currently 
 777 2014-01-29 15:04:22 <Jouke> Damnit, you  guys are going too fast.
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 783 2014-01-29 15:05:16 <TD> Jouke: too fast?
 784 2014-01-29 15:05:20 <TD> hmmm :) i disagree :)
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 786 2014-01-29 15:07:04 <wumpus> we've picked up the pace a bit in the last few months
 787 2014-01-29 15:07:11 <Jouke> Nah, now I have to pull an employee off a project to let him actually finish the payment protocol implementation. But, that is our problem :P
 788 2014-01-29 15:07:15 <TD> yes. more contributors. at least i see this with bitcoinj too
 789 2014-01-29 15:07:28 <TD> gavinandresen: beta payment protocol support in android wallet: https://github.com/schildbach/bitcoin-wallet/releases/tag/v3.30-bitcoinj0.11
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 791 2014-01-29 15:07:33 <TD> jgarzik: poke
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 794 2014-01-29 15:09:28 <Jouke> TD: cool
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 797 2014-01-29 15:11:11 <gavinandresen> To git@github.com:bitcoin/bitcoin.git
 798 2014-01-29 15:11:12 <gavinandresen>  * [new tag]         v0.9.0rc1 -> v0.9.0rc1
 799 2014-01-29 15:11:46 <wumpus> gavinandresen:wait, I think we still need to bump the version numbers
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 801 2014-01-29 15:12:03 <gavinandresen> To git@github.com:bitcoin/bitcoin.git
 802 2014-01-29 15:12:03 <gavinandresen>  - [deleted]         v0.9.0rc1
 803 2014-01-29 15:12:38 <wumpus> let's see what all has to be changed, seems there are more and more places to be updated every version
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 807 2014-01-29 15:12:55 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I'm about to run away to a meeting.....
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 809 2014-01-29 15:13:29 <wumpus> okay, let's do it later then, we still need release notes too...
 810 2014-01-29 15:14:05 <wumpus> It would be great to have all version info in one place, I wonder how other projects handle this
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 814 2014-01-29 15:15:21 <jgarzik> TD, pong
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 816 2014-01-29 15:15:48 <TD_> jgarzik: payment protocol? :D
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 822 2014-01-29 15:19:27 <TD2> annoying. for some reason the testnet faucets are down
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 826 2014-01-29 15:22:01 <wumpus> ok, bumped the version numbers
 827 2014-01-29 15:22:14 <sipa> gavinandresen, wumpus, jgarzik: can you please have a look at #3370 and #3514?
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 830 2014-01-29 15:22:45 <sipa> (the second includes the first)
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 832 2014-01-29 15:23:21 <jgarzik> TD2, email jgarzik@bitpay.com an address, and you will get testnet coins in a couple minutes
 833 2014-01-29 15:25:28 <TD2> thanks
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 850 2014-01-29 15:31:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Wow, already time for a release candidate?
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 852 2014-01-29 15:32:53 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wonders how many we'll need
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 860 2014-01-29 15:36:50 <wumpus> ...already?
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 866 2014-01-29 15:37:52 <sipa> it's been ages since 0.8
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 868 2014-01-29 15:38:25 <wumpus> yeah, indeed
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 871 2014-01-29 15:39:49 <wumpus> I'll take a look at those pulls later sipa, currently writing release notes, but you think those should be merged before the rc?
 872 2014-01-29 15:40:06 <jcorgan> wumpus: in gnuradio we have the version numbers as build system variables (we use cmake, but autotools of course supports this too), and have a .in file to substitute them into global variables and defined symbols that can be referenced anywhere in the software.  One place to change that updates anywhere the version number gets used.
 873 2014-01-29 15:41:27 <wumpus> jcorgan: yep, we have those too now, I see the autotools switch cut down on the number of places that have to be changed
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 875 2014-01-29 15:41:51 <wumpus> some documents and scripts still have to be changed individually, but it's not as bad as it used to be
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 878 2014-01-29 15:42:06 <wumpus> I hope I got them all though: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f9a2f088820574ce3c6d06bd9f4ea711184eadad
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 881 2014-01-29 15:43:03 <wumpus> (I'm actually not sure why the CLIENT_VERSION_* still need to be replicated in clientversion.h, is there a case where we build without HAVE_CONFIG_H?)
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 898 2014-01-29 15:55:01 <wumpus> there's certainly a lot of commits, writing the 0.9 release notes is a lot of work :)
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 903 2014-01-29 15:59:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, why do we wait until near release time for those?
 904 2014-01-29 16:00:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Why not keep a running set going as changes are made?)
 905 2014-01-29 16:01:19 <wumpus> yes, why...
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 907 2014-01-29 16:01:49 <wumpus> people submitting pull requests should update the release notes too! :P
 908 2014-01-29 16:02:34 <wumpus> most of the commits don't have to be in the release notes, luckily, lots of internal non-user-affecting changes
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 950 2014-01-29 16:37:19 <Sleepnbum> any ideas when the next version of bitcoind will be released?
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 954 2014-01-29 16:37:40 <aynstein> define released? Like full release?
 955 2014-01-29 16:37:51 <wumpus> Sleepnbum: 0.9.0rc1 will likely be tagged today
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 957 2014-01-29 16:39:18 <Sleepnbum> thanks!
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 972 2014-01-29 16:58:45 <super3> wumpus, are we going to use github for releases this time?
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 975 2014-01-29 17:00:43 <wumpus> super3: I don't think so
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 977 2014-01-29 17:01:55 <wumpus> github release functionality is a bit funky to use, you can't just upload files AFAIK
 978 2014-01-29 17:02:29 <wumpus> so we could put the tarballs on github, but the windows installer? I don't know
 979 2014-01-29 17:03:48 <sipa> wumpus: iirc github did add some interface for releasing binaries
 980 2014-01-29 17:03:55 <sipa> never tried or checked it
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 982 2014-01-29 17:04:13 <wumpus> me neither... did anyone here ever use github for releases?
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 984 2014-01-29 17:04:49 <super3> i used it a few days ago
 985 2014-01-29 17:05:16 <sipa> wumpus: https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software
 986 2014-01-29 17:05:18 <wumpus> so, can you comment? can you upload binaries as seperate files without checking them in the repository?
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 988 2014-01-29 17:05:58 <super3> wumpus, yes. you just drag and drop binaries into their little uploader
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 990 2014-01-29 17:06:10 <super3> it even snapshots the code in .zip and tar.gz
 991 2014-01-29 17:06:31 <super3> and has a place where you can make a fancy little changelog
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 994 2014-01-29 17:07:46 <sipa> our source code releases should be deterministically built though, ideally
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 996 2014-01-29 17:08:39 <super3> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3224
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 999 2014-01-29 17:08:52 <super3> https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software
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1021 2014-01-29 17:34:40 <stonecoldpat> guys - with bitcoin messages
1022 2014-01-29 17:34:44 <stonecoldpat> is that sent alongside the transaction?
1023 2014-01-29 17:34:59 <sipa> define 'bitcoin message' ?
1024 2014-01-29 17:35:15 <stonecoldpat> sorry, i remember hearing that when you send a transaction, a message can accompany it
1025 2014-01-29 17:35:16 <sipa> (the answer is most likely no, there are no messages inside transactions)
1026 2014-01-29 17:35:20 <stonecoldpat> as in, its attached
1027 2014-01-29 17:35:24 <sipa> no
1028 2014-01-29 17:35:33 <sipa> either you're talking about:
1029 2014-01-29 17:36:10 <sipa> * the signed message feature in some clients (which has nothing to do with transactions, and is not online, it just signs a message with an address locally, proving you're the owner)
1030 2014-01-29 17:36:25 <sipa> * the comment field you can add to a transaction in some clients (which is local only)
1031 2014-01-29 17:36:42 <sipa> * the comment field you can add to transactions on blockchain.info (which is only on that site)
1032 2014-01-29 17:37:08 <sipa> * the OP_RETURN extra output that will be allowed in 0.9 of the reference client, but that is for committing to metadata, not messages
1033 2014-01-29 17:37:40 <stonecoldpat> ah, its most likely the blockchain.info one im thinking off then (example I was thinking off, was when messages went sent to the FBI about the confiscated bitcoins)
1034 2014-01-29 17:38:24 <stonecoldpat> OP_RETURN, will users who create transaction have control over the meta-data sent?
1035 2014-01-29 17:39:06 <Luke-Jr> OP_RETURN is just a more painless way to abuse Bitcoin, it isn't meant to be used
1036 2014-01-29 17:39:16 <Luke-Jr> and might be reverted since people keep taking it as an endorsement
1037 2014-01-29 17:39:19 orion has left ()
1038 2014-01-29 17:39:27 <Luke-Jr> s/painless/less painful/
1039 2014-01-29 17:40:13 <stonecoldpat> ok, so it isn't something to be relied upon then?
1040 2014-01-29 17:40:31 <sipa> if you want to send a message along with a transaction, use the payment protocol
1041 2014-01-29 17:40:39 <sipa> (which will hopefully become available soon)
1042 2014-01-29 17:40:58 leochill has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1043 2014-01-29 17:40:58 <sipa> there's no point in spamming the entire world and the history of every full node ever in history with your personal message
1044 2014-01-29 17:40:59 <stonecoldpat> i'll look into that, thanks sipa
1045 2014-01-29 17:41:28 <wumpus> 0.9.0rc1 release notes (preliminary): http://hastebin.com/lojofeqahi.vhdl
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1047 2014-01-29 17:42:04 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: OP_RETURN is listed in there twice, and should probably be revisited
1048 2014-01-29 17:42:22 <wumpus> LOL, indeed
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1050 2014-01-29 17:42:38 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: should I go ahead and change the spaces to dashes for the message thing?
1051 2014-01-29 17:43:22 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: that would be consistent
1052 2014-01-29 17:43:33 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: goal of splitting that apart from proposals is to hopefully get it in for 0.9 so we don't have to change the messages between versions BTW
1053 2014-01-29 17:44:03 <jcorgan> lol that chrome or hastebin is applying VHDL syntax highlighting due to the URL
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1055 2014-01-29 17:44:24 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes, makes sense, you only change the messages so I don't think your pull is controversial
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1058 2014-01-29 17:45:17 <wumpus> jcorgan: hehe, I accidentally selected vhdl probably
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1061 2014-01-29 17:47:00 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: sipa also has pulls that he would like to have in 0.9  (#3370 and #3514) so I'm not entirely sure about the release today, but it can't hurt to have the release notes ready
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1065 2014-01-29 17:50:47 <jcorgan> wumpus: does running 0.9x on a 0.8x database upgrade it in a way that prevents it from being used again with 0.8?
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1067 2014-01-29 17:50:59 <wumpus> jcorgan: no, that should be fixed
1068 2014-01-29 17:51:07 <jcorgan> ah ok
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1070 2014-01-29 17:51:22 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: repushed
1071 2014-01-29 17:51:25 <wumpus> there was a bug with leveldb renaming files, but that is no longer the case
1072 2014-01-29 17:51:56 <jcorgan> got it, hard to keep track of it all
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1076 2014-01-29 17:54:46 <jcorgan> minor typo line 168, extra word
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1079 2014-01-29 17:58:05 <jcorgan> if configure --disable-wallet isn't used, i assume the cli -disable wallet isn't needed, might clairfy
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1081 2014-01-29 17:58:26 <jcorgan> is used, argh
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1087 2014-01-29 18:01:05 <Luke-Jr> hmm
1088 2014-01-29 18:01:17 <Luke-Jr> can the wallet be disabled at runtime?
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1111 2014-01-29 18:09:23 <wumpus> jcorgan: you can use both, but there's indeed no point
1112 2014-01-29 18:09:32 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes, with the -disable-wallet option
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1160 2014-01-29 18:47:37 <super3> gah that changelog is huge
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1164 2014-01-29 18:49:06 <super3> makes me really excited for v1.0
1165 2014-01-29 18:49:21 <sipa> you mean 0.10? :)
1166 2014-01-29 18:49:40 <sipa> ... for some reason 0.10 sounds so much less complete than 0.9
1167 2014-01-29 18:50:32 <super3> will we have fancy headers first by 1.0?
1168 2014-01-29 18:50:33 <jcorgan> should have called it 0.09
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1180 2014-01-29 19:05:03 <Luke-Jr> jcorgan: 0.9 and 0.09 are the same thing
1181 2014-01-29 19:05:15 <Luke-Jr> except the latter has a leading zero
1182 2014-01-29 19:05:51 <jcorgan> my comment was snarky response to sipa.  0.09 -> 0.10 seems better than 0.9 -> 0.10
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1185 2014-01-29 19:08:21 <petertodd> wumpus: "Document and test OP_RESERVED weirdness" <- doesn't need to be in the release notes
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1187 2014-01-29 19:09:35 <wumpus> right
1188 2014-01-29 19:09:36 <petertodd> wumpus: "Fix off-by-one errors in use of IsFinalTx()" I'd change that to "Accept of nLockTime transactions that finalize in the next block"
1189 2014-01-29 19:09:59 <petertodd> wumpus: s/of//
1190 2014-01-29 19:10:00 <wumpus> Accept of?
1191 2014-01-29 19:10:06 <wumpus> ah
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1198 2014-01-29 19:15:28 <petertodd> wumpus: "Performance optimization for bloom filters" that was a DoS attack fix, and do you want to duplicate already released fixes?
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1202 2014-01-29 19:16:41 <CodeShark> 0.09 -> 0.10 will get sorted properly in most contexts :)
1203 2014-01-29 19:16:58 <CodeShark> 0.9 -> 0.10 will not
1204 2014-01-29 19:17:12 <sipa> if you use proper version ordering, it will :)
1205 2014-01-29 19:17:20 <petertodd> CodeShark: there's actually standard version number comparison routines out there in various languages you know - Python has one
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1209 2014-01-29 19:17:52 <CodeShark> it's trivial to sort correctly if you're the one who is coding :p
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1211 2014-01-29 19:17:58 <CodeShark> problem is when using tools other people wrote
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1213 2014-01-29 19:18:44 <petertodd> CodeShark: meh, why don't you go complain about the order of the credits in the release notes? that'd be productive
1214 2014-01-29 19:18:47 * petertodd ducks
1215 2014-01-29 19:18:50 <CodeShark> lol
1216 2014-01-29 19:19:15 Ursium has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1217 2014-01-29 19:19:18 <CodeShark> I wasn't trying to be productive
1218 2014-01-29 19:19:53 <super3> well we did rebrand to bitcoin core, could probably get away with starting the versioning for that anywhere we want
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1220 2014-01-29 19:20:18 <sipa> let's call it Bitcoin Core NT 3.51
1221 2014-01-29 19:20:22 <CodeShark> lol
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1223 2014-01-29 19:21:05 <super3> as long at its not Bitcoin ME, i'm happy
1224 2014-01-29 19:22:24 <wumpus> petertodd: right, if it already is in 0.8.6 it shouldn't be in the list
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1227 2014-01-29 19:23:58 <wumpus> the order of the credits is simply how git shortlog produced it, it's strange that it's case senstively sorted but meh
1228 2014-01-29 19:23:59 <petertodd> wumpus: also, stick the release notes in the git repo IMO... we don't seem to have done that - good for historic value
1229 2014-01-29 19:24:34 <sipa> there's even a file for that!
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1231 2014-01-29 19:24:57 <wumpus> sipa: but that one is removed after every release so not really useful for historic value
1232 2014-01-29 19:25:29 <sipa> it's still in git history
1233 2014-01-29 19:25:34 <wumpus> making a directory with all the historical release notes would make sense
1234 2014-01-29 19:25:39 <sipa> and i wouldn't mind having all changelogs, actually
1235 2014-01-29 19:25:39 <petertodd> wumpus: mainly it should be easy to look them up when you're trying to figure out what people thought had changed
1236 2014-01-29 19:25:40 <sipa> yeah
1237 2014-01-29 19:25:59 <sipa> including the historic stuff would be nice
1238 2014-01-29 19:26:08 <sipa> you might need to pull that off bitcointalk :)
1239 2014-01-29 19:26:18 <wumpus> either bitcointalk or sourceforge
1240 2014-01-29 19:26:25 <sipa> or mail
1241 2014-01-29 19:26:28 <petertodd> sipa: exactly the problem!
1242 2014-01-29 19:26:35 <sipa> petertodd: agree
1243 2014-01-29 19:26:50 <gmaxwell> yea, changelogs have been hugely helpful for me in the past figuring out what version some change was merged in when the specific commit isn't instantly obvious, and even with the commit figuring out where something was released takes a little effort (esp due to backporting)
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1245 2014-01-29 19:27:08 <sipa> digging through git log to find when something changed is painful
1246 2014-01-29 19:27:18 <BlueMatt> wumpus: its on the wiki
1247 2014-01-29 19:27:24 <BlueMatt> it just hasnt been updated since like 0.7
1248 2014-01-29 19:27:29 <BlueMatt> but it has all the changes before then
1249 2014-01-29 19:27:32 <sipa> oh wow, so recent
1250 2014-01-29 19:27:39 <BlueMatt> ok, maybe not so recent
1251 2014-01-29 19:27:42 <sipa> (seriously, i would expect it to be until 0.3.20 or so)
1252 2014-01-29 19:27:42 <BlueMatt> like 0.5 or 6
1253 2014-01-29 19:27:51 <wumpus> ok so at least the information is in multiple places then :)
1254 2014-01-29 19:27:53 <BlueMatt> no, I spent an hour or two like a year ago updating it
1255 2014-01-29 19:28:04 <sipa> kwel
1256 2014-01-29 19:28:06 <sipa> *kewl
1257 2014-01-29 19:28:10 <BlueMatt> 0.6
1258 2014-01-29 19:28:16 <BlueMatt> en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Changelog
1259 2014-01-29 19:28:41 <sipa> march 2012
1260 2014-01-29 19:28:44 <BlueMatt> wumpus: where else is the info?
1261 2014-01-29 19:28:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, fine, 1.5 years ago
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1264 2014-01-29 19:29:53 <Ademan> is it possible to accurately measure the orphan rate of the block chain? I guess if you connected to a lot of clients you could probably reasonably expect to receive nearly all blocks, and be witness to nearly all orphans?
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1267 2014-01-29 19:30:31 <petertodd> Ademan: define accurate
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1270 2014-01-29 19:30:57 <Ademan> petertodd: "satisfies my subjective desire for accuracy" :-p
1271 2014-01-29 19:31:24 <Ademan> uh, I dunno... but the idea that it would miss as few events were blocks were orphaned as possible
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1273 2014-01-29 19:31:53 <sipa> Ademan: technically, the block chain has no forks
1274 2014-01-29 19:31:59 ahbritto_ has joined
1275 2014-01-29 19:32:06 <sipa> as the block chain is defined as the longest chain through the block tree :)
1276 2014-01-29 19:32:24 nightlingo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1277 2014-01-29 19:32:31 <sipa> (that's nitpicking, of course)
1278 2014-01-29 19:32:39 <Ademan> lol
1279 2014-01-29 19:32:42 <sipa> the problem is that your node will never see all blocks
1280 2014-01-29 19:32:57 MolokoDeck has joined
1281 2014-01-29 19:33:09 <petertodd> Ademan: I'll bet you blockchain.info has 90% of all orphans
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1287 2014-01-29 19:36:17 <Ademan> I was interested in measuring the orphan rate of different cryptos with different block times, but I suspect since the propagation of blocks is more or less a fixed rate, but the block time is reducing (I assume nodes won't forward blocks in a shorter chain?) that the accuracy of measurement will decrease
1288 2014-01-29 19:36:32 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1289 2014-01-29 19:36:46 s7r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1290 2014-01-29 19:36:51 <Ademan> s/but the block time is reducing/but for cryptos with shorter block times/
1291 2014-01-29 19:37:13 <sipa> block size hugely impacts propagation speed
1292 2014-01-29 19:37:20 <sipa> which makes it really hard to compare things
1293 2014-01-29 19:37:22 <petertodd> Ademan: easiest thing to do is convince said crypto's to propagate block headers separately :)
1294 2014-01-29 19:37:39 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1297 2014-01-29 19:38:24 <BlueMatt> sipa/gmaxwell: someone should definitely update the wiki changelog page :)
1298 2014-01-29 19:38:27 debiantoruser has joined
1299 2014-01-29 19:38:36 Ursium has joined
1300 2014-01-29 19:38:37 <Ademan> sipa: ah that makes sense
1301 2014-01-29 19:38:49 <petertodd> BlueMatt: ...with a link to http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/doc/release-notes/
1302 2014-01-29 19:38:57 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1303 2014-01-29 19:39:43 <BlueMatt> petertodd: what, this one? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-nots.md
1304 2014-01-29 19:39:52 <BlueMatt> the empty one that hasnt been updated in 8 months?
1305 2014-01-29 19:39:59 <Ademan> petertodd: how open would you be to backwards incompatible changes to python-bitcoinlib's bitcoin.rpc.Proxy ? :-D
1306 2014-01-29 19:40:15 <sipa> BlueMatt: well, i wouldn't object to putting all changelogs in that directory
1307 2014-01-29 19:40:21 <sipa> including old ones
1308 2014-01-29 19:40:25 <petertodd> BlueMatt: hehe, well above I was saying we should have a archival directory in git
1309 2014-01-29 19:40:25 <BlueMatt> well, ok, sure
1310 2014-01-29 19:40:35 <BlueMatt> someone should do that, then, too :)
1311 2014-01-29 19:40:45 <petertodd> Ademan: what do you want to do?
1312 2014-01-29 19:40:55 <BlueMatt> what happened to the people I met in miami who were saying they could write docs if it would be useful for devs?
1313 2014-01-29 19:41:05 ahbritto_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1315 2014-01-29 19:42:03 ahbritto_ has joined
1316 2014-01-29 19:42:19 <Ademan> petertodd: well it's already done. But it annoyed me that RawProxy.__init__() read the config file by default, making it impossible/really annoying to construct a raw proxy from explicitly specified username/password/port/hostname information, so I took the meat from the existing init and moved it into a class method from_config() and made init "lower level"
1317 2014-01-29 19:42:20 <petertodd> BlueMatt: oh sorry, I pointed them to some post-modern poetry classes - they seemed really psyched
1318 2014-01-29 19:42:26 AriseChikun has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1319 2014-01-29 19:42:35 <sipa> petertodd: Vogon poetry?
1320 2014-01-29 19:42:40 <Ademan> Wasn't sure if I should even bother submitting a pull request since it'd break code
1321 2014-01-29 19:42:56 <petertodd> Ademan: ? that's only by default though, there are the keyword arguments for that
1322 2014-01-29 19:43:06 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1323 2014-01-29 19:43:06 t3st3r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1326 2014-01-29 19:43:12 <petertodd> Ademan: I mean, I was just using that library with dogecoin last night
1327 2014-01-29 19:43:15 <petertodd> sipa: worse
1328 2014-01-29 19:43:27 <sipa> petertodd: then there's just 2 options left
1329 2014-01-29 19:43:27 <BlueMatt> petertodd: ahhhhh, damn you
1330 2014-01-29 19:44:08 guruvan has joined
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1332 2014-01-29 19:44:35 songz has joined
1333 2014-01-29 19:45:45 <Ademan> petertodd: well, if you shove everything into the service_url, sure, but otherwise not exactly...
1334 2014-01-29 19:45:58 <Ademan> which is kind of silly since the init eventually tears the service_url apart anyways
1335 2014-01-29 19:46:05 ahbritto_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1336 2014-01-29 19:46:19 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1337 2014-01-29 19:46:50 <petertodd> Ademan: well, meh :)
1338 2014-01-29 19:46:50 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1339 2014-01-29 19:47:05 debiantoruser has joined
1340 2014-01-29 19:47:30 <Ademan> petertodd: but I had forgotten about that, it is possible. my changes soothe my OCD but it's probably not worth breaking code for
1341 2014-01-29 19:48:00 <petertodd> Ademan: yeah, although frankly I'd be surprising if there's all that much code out there to break!
1342 2014-01-29 19:48:05 ahbritto_ has joined
1343 2014-01-29 19:48:14 TD has joined
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1345 2014-01-29 19:48:43 justusranvier has joined
1346 2014-01-29 19:48:57 <petertodd> Ademan: are you using jgarzik's master branch, or my pythonize one?
1347 2014-01-29 19:49:07 pierreatwork has joined
1348 2014-01-29 19:49:21 <Ademan> petertodd: pythonize
1349 2014-01-29 19:49:33 <petertodd> Ademan: ah cool, how do you like it?
1350 2014-01-29 19:49:48 <Ademan> I like it but I don't know how it diverges from jgarzik's lol
1351 2014-01-29 19:50:15 <petertodd> Ademan: it doesn't so much diverge as it breaks things :P
1352 2014-01-29 19:50:35 prepost has joined
1353 2014-01-29 19:50:51 <petertodd> Ademan: basically CNode and other networking stuff is broken right now
1354 2014-01-29 19:50:55 Burrito has joined
1355 2014-01-29 19:51:09 <Ademan> oh, bad times, I hadn't gotten far enough to notice that yet
1356 2014-01-29 19:51:30 <petertodd> Ademan: yeah, OTOH for use with RPC it works pretty well
1357 2014-01-29 19:51:43 <petertodd> Ademan: oh, and I think SigntureHash() is broken right now
1358 2014-01-29 19:51:45 leochill has joined
1359 2014-01-29 19:51:50 <Ademan> speaking of irritating my OCD though... CWhyDoThisInPythonCamelCaseImpliesType!!!
1360 2014-01-29 19:52:54 <petertodd> Ademan: quite delibrately to match the C++ source-code
1361 2014-01-29 19:53:11 <Ademan> ah...
1362 2014-01-29 19:53:33 <petertodd> Ademan: CTransaction in py is a pretty much exact copy of CTransaction in bitcoin in terms of what it does
1363 2014-01-29 19:53:37 <petertodd> Ademan: (etc.)
1364 2014-01-29 19:53:48 ahbritto_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1365 2014-01-29 19:54:03 Coincourse has joined
1366 2014-01-29 19:54:19 <Ademan> interesting, I didn't know that, I still haven't read (much) of the bitcoin source
1367 2014-01-29 19:55:59 AriseChikun has joined
1368 2014-01-29 19:56:13 <petertodd> Ademan: you really should, it's actually quite simple code, on the surface...
1369 2014-01-29 19:57:38 ahbritto_ has joined
1370 2014-01-29 19:57:48 <Ademan> probably, I can't say I'm using bitcoin *completely* trustlessly unless I do :-p
1371 2014-01-29 19:57:55 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1372 2014-01-29 19:58:18 <Ademan> what's the goal of the pythonize branch though?
1373 2014-01-29 19:58:42 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1374 2014-01-29 19:58:54 <Ademan> It's what I based my work on since for whatever reason killerstorm picked it
1375 2014-01-29 19:59:11 <petertodd> Ademan: oh, killerstorm is using it too?
1376 2014-01-29 19:59:36 debiantoruser has joined
1377 2014-01-29 19:59:42 <Ademan> yeah for colored coins actually, unless that changed, I haven't done any work on it since a couple weeks before finals
1378 2014-01-29 19:59:53 <petertodd> Ademan: basically just to take jgarzik's code and make it follow python coding standards reasonably closely for ease of use, but without sacrificing speed or the ability to late use Cython or a compiled module
1379 2014-01-29 20:00:18 <petertodd> Ademan: (I've wrote a bunch of Cython and compiled python modules a few years back)
1380 2014-01-29 20:00:20 Coincourse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1381 2014-01-29 20:01:02 <Ademan> ah cool. Right now there's no way to build the main bitcoin tree as a shared library is thre?
1382 2014-01-29 20:01:05 <Ademan> there* even
1383 2014-01-29 20:01:31 <petertodd> Ademan: not yet, but I may get a chance to do that as part of my new job
1384 2014-01-29 20:01:49 <sipa> petertodd: new job... the one you have, or a newer one?
1385 2014-01-29 20:01:50 <Ademan> oh nice!
1386 2014-01-29 20:01:57 digitalmagus3 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1387 2014-01-29 20:01:58 <petertodd> sipa: ha, mastercoin
1388 2014-01-29 20:02:01 <sipa> ok
1389 2014-01-29 20:02:13 <Ademan> uh oh :-p
1390 2014-01-29 20:02:45 <Ademan> so now you want to merge my changes into python-bitcoinlib so it breaks colored coins?
1391 2014-01-29 20:03:05 <petertodd> Ademan: keep in mind I said a few months ago that it was an idea sufficiently stupid as to be indistinguishable from a scam... and JR basically said "Point taked. How about you go fix it then if you're so smart?"
1392 2014-01-29 20:03:10 <petertodd> s/taked/taken/
1393 2014-01-29 20:03:43 <petertodd> Ademan: ha, even less likely! I'll have to find their code and start looking at it
1394 2014-01-29 20:03:59 jakoblind has quit (Quit: jakoblind)
1395 2014-01-29 20:04:05 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1396 2014-01-29 20:04:22 <Ademan> btw, the NYC hearings are going on right now
1397 2014-01-29 20:04:23 agricocb has joined
1398 2014-01-29 20:04:30 <jgarzik> Ademan, huh?
1399 2014-01-29 20:04:45 <Ademan> http://www.totalwebcasting.com/view/?id=nysdfs
1400 2014-01-29 20:04:58 <jgarzik> petertodd, can you run a comparison and see if merging your branch would regress anything?
1401 2014-01-29 20:05:16 <petertodd> jgarzik: well... according to the unit tests it wouldn't :P
1402 2014-01-29 20:05:22 <Ademan> oh wow this guy is trying to say bitcoin isn't a currency because its price is volatile
1403 2014-01-29 20:05:23 <jgarzik> Ademan, wasn't aware there was a second day?
1404 2014-01-29 20:05:29 <petertodd> jgarzik: it'd break pynode for sure though
1405 2014-01-29 20:05:35 <Ademan> jgarzik: neither was I, someone in #bitcoin-pricetalk pointed it out
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1408 2014-01-29 20:06:08 attilah has joined
1409 2014-01-29 20:06:33 <jgarzik> petertodd, I'll fix it up, just to get moving
1410 2014-01-29 20:07:07 <petertodd> jgarzik: thanks, I've got a lot of paid work right now
1411 2014-01-29 20:07:29 <petertodd> jgarzik: I wrote a ECDH addon for CKey last night btw
1412 2014-01-29 20:08:10 ahbritto has joined
1413 2014-01-29 20:08:35 <sipa> wumpus, jgarzik, gmaxwell, gavinandresen: if i could get bip32 support ready this weekend... worth delaying rc1 for?
1414 2014-01-29 20:08:50 <petertodd> sipa: bip32 for the wallet?
1415 2014-01-29 20:08:54 <sipa> yes
1416 2014-01-29 20:09:22 <petertodd> sipa: I'd suggest a 0.10 for that purely on the basis that it is wallet related
1417 2014-01-29 20:09:46 <petertodd> sipa: and totally ok to make 0.10 a bit32-only release so people can start testing just that earlier than not
1418 2014-01-29 20:10:02 <petertodd> *bip32
1419 2014-01-29 20:11:26 <sipa> perhaps best
1420 2014-01-29 20:11:36 <sipa> decent integration will require gui changes, rpc changes, ...
1421 2014-01-29 20:11:44 <sipa> dump format integration
1422 2014-01-29 20:11:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'd like us to get in the habit of smaller, more frequent releases again
1423 2014-01-29 20:11:58 <sipa> gavinandresen: ack on that, actually
1424 2014-01-29 20:12:08 <sipa> 0.9 has been going on for way too long already
1425 2014-01-29 20:12:11 <petertodd> sipa: yup, so release "all those cool 0.9 changes" and then 0.10 can be "and if you're really adventurous..."
1426 2014-01-29 20:12:11 <sipa> ok
1427 2014-01-29 20:13:16 t3st3r has joined
1428 2014-01-29 20:13:36 <petertodd> heh, where kernel releases did odd/even you almost want to do stable/unstable/holy-fuck-the-wallets-changing around here :P
1429 2014-01-29 20:13:37 <jgarzik> sipa, 0.10 imo
1430 2014-01-29 20:14:15 <jgarzik> sipa, though I'm yur motivated you can always stick a default-disabled tech preview toy for people to play with in there
1431 2014-01-29 20:14:49 <jgarzik> I'm a big fan of default-disabled tech previews.  Get the code building, and easy to enable for early adopters
1432 2014-01-29 20:14:56 <jgarzik> get it in tree and building, I mean
1433 2014-01-29 20:15:07 <sipa> btw, libsecp256k1 has been autotoolsified
1434 2014-01-29 20:15:19 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1435 2014-01-29 20:15:37 <sipa> i have code changes for key.pp to integrate it, but someone'll have to integrate it in the build system
1436 2014-01-29 20:15:49 <EasyAt> Didn't we already have a .1?  What was before .2?
1437 2014-01-29 20:16:01 <petertodd> EasyAt: 0.1 != 0.10
1438 2014-01-29 20:16:16 ahbritto has joined
1439 2014-01-29 20:16:16 <EasyAt> mercy
1440 2014-01-29 20:16:18 <sipa> or even: 0.1.0 != 0.10
1441 2014-01-29 20:16:25 <petertodd> EasyAt: there are projects out there upup to 0.38
1442 2014-01-29 20:16:30 <petertodd> s/upup/upto/
1443 2014-01-29 20:17:16 Application has joined
1444 2014-01-29 20:17:27 <petertodd> EasyAt: http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/distutils.version.StrictVersion-class.html
1445 2014-01-29 20:17:45 <wumpus> sipa: I'd prefer to not do such large wallet changes last-minute
1446 2014-01-29 20:18:04 <sipa> fair enough
1447 2014-01-29 20:18:06 <wumpus> doing more frequent major releases sounds good to me though
1448 2014-01-29 20:18:18 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1449 2014-01-29 20:18:19 <sipa> the problem is a feeling of promises i guess
1450 2014-01-29 20:18:23 <wumpus> 0.9 was going on for too long
1451 2014-01-29 20:18:33 <Ademan> It doesn't appear that any of the coinjoin bounty was paid out to whoever created the existing centralized coinjoin implementation, what's up with that?
1452 2014-01-29 20:18:45 <petertodd> Ademan: you mean blockchain.info?
1453 2014-01-29 20:18:53 <petertodd> Ademan: or you mean the guy from months ago?
1454 2014-01-29 20:19:15 <sipa> if you've been postponing a new release for a long time, it feels like you ought to bring many improvements
1455 2014-01-29 20:19:19 <petertodd> Ademan: a few people suggested it be paid out based on real-world impact fwiw
1456 2014-01-29 20:19:31 ahbritto has joined
1457 2014-01-29 20:19:35 <sipa> while not releasing makes it actually harder to get new features tested
1458 2014-01-29 20:19:44 <Ademan> petertodd: the guy from a few months ago
1459 2014-01-29 20:19:55 <andytoshi> Ademan: do you mean me?
1460 2014-01-29 20:19:56 <wumpus> there is already so much stuff in 0.9
1461 2014-01-29 20:19:57 <jgarzik> sipa, push it to HEAD immediately after tagging 0.9-final
1462 2014-01-29 20:20:07 <jgarzik> release early, release often
1463 2014-01-29 20:20:08 <Ademan> andytoshi: I do, I was going to pop into #bitcoin and hunt for your nick :-p
1464 2014-01-29 20:20:12 <sipa> jgarzik: secp, you mean?
1465 2014-01-29 20:20:14 <jgarzik> let's get 0.10 out the door :)
1466 2014-01-29 20:20:21 <jgarzik> sipa, secp + HD
1467 2014-01-29 20:20:23 <petertodd> Ademan: yeah, OTOH his code isn't getting actually used
1468 2014-01-29 20:20:35 <andytoshi> Ademan: i have a bot announcing cjs and i show up pretty often to answer questions and encourage people to join
1469 2014-01-29 20:20:36 <andytoshi> and still nobody
1470 2014-01-29 20:20:43 <Ademan> hey, they're talking about "colorful coins" in the hearing
1471 2014-01-29 20:20:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, +1
1472 2014-01-29 20:21:07 <andytoshi> i think uptake is a solvable problem, and the bounty should be contingent on that
1473 2014-01-29 20:21:25 <Ademan> andytoshi: ah
1474 2014-01-29 20:21:32 <petertodd> andytoshi: you need a "lobby" mode where you can leave a long-running coinjoin going for people who don't need to have a tx done in any particular timeframe
1475 2014-01-29 20:21:58 <Ademan> definitely, I'm structuring my work around a "coinjoind" that just runs with some parameters...
1476 2014-01-29 20:22:09 <Ademan> sits there, and waits
1477 2014-01-29 20:22:15 <andytoshi> Ademan: you have a 'coinjoind' which you are developing?
1478 2014-01-29 20:22:17 <petertodd> andytoshi: bc.i's coinjoin implementation is succesful because it's really fast
1479 2014-01-29 20:22:40 <petertodd> andytoshi: piuk said about 50% of the joins have more than one non-bc.i participant
1480 2014-01-29 20:23:21 <Ademan> andytoshi: I'm running with the p2p implementation you pointed me to, you can see my fork on github but there's nothing to see yet, I basically just moved stuff around so that I can grok the existing code haha
1481 2014-01-29 20:23:38 yubrew has joined
1482 2014-01-29 20:23:41 <Ademan> well, I'm moving forward as of like 8pm on BART last night...
1483 2014-01-29 20:23:48 <Ademan> but just barely
1484 2014-01-29 20:24:25 <andytoshi> petertodd: i thought you needed to be logged into bc.i to use their joiner?
1485 2014-01-29 20:24:29 <andytoshi> i can't even find a link
1486 2014-01-29 20:24:37 <petertodd> andytoshi: you do
1487 2014-01-29 20:24:57 <andytoshi> ok, so how can you join with non-bc.i participants?
1488 2014-01-29 20:25:12 <petertodd> andytoshi: bc.i has a hot wallet that they mix funds into - I mean non-hotwallet participant/actual bc.i user
1489 2014-01-29 20:25:50 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1490 2014-01-29 20:25:54 jakoblind has joined
1491 2014-01-29 20:25:54 <petertodd> andytoshi: point is the UI is that your tx goes through relatively fast with reasonable privacy regardless of whether or not anyone else is doing a join at the exact same time
1492 2014-01-29 20:26:12 yubrew_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1493 2014-01-29 20:26:15 <andytoshi> they can only do that because they have many users
1494 2014-01-29 20:26:23 <andytoshi> and all these people trust them with their privkeys
1495 2014-01-29 20:26:33 <andytoshi> if people would send me private keys i could do fast joins too :)
1496 2014-01-29 20:26:37 <petertodd> andytoshi: not just that - they still need to get those users to actualy use the feature too
1497 2014-01-29 20:26:37 drayah has joined
1498 2014-01-29 20:26:53 <petertodd> andytoshi: remember that the actual process is still client-side - they're not signing on your behalf
1499 2014-01-29 20:27:06 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1500 2014-01-29 20:27:25 ahbritto has joined
1501 2014-01-29 20:27:40 <petertodd> andytoshi: see, if you had a feature where I could leave a client running with a few hundred worth of BTC and would join with anyone else who showed up your thing would be a lot more popular
1502 2014-01-29 20:27:59 <andytoshi> petertodd: ok, thx. i will implement that
1503 2014-01-29 20:28:16 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: yea, make it so that it can move all the coins from bin A into bin B.
1504 2014-01-29 20:28:31 <andytoshi> should the client be an actual wallet then?
1505 2014-01-29 20:28:37 debiantoruser has joined
1506 2014-01-29 20:28:37 <andytoshi> i guess it should be
1507 2014-01-29 20:28:37 <petertodd> andytoshi: no problem. Also critically, make it so that you can say "I don't care exactly how much each tx moves; match what the other participants want."
1508 2014-01-29 20:28:59 <petertodd> andytoshi: kinda yeah, using the bitcoin-core RPC interface/wallet is fine
1509 2014-01-29 20:29:01 sbrossie has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1510 2014-01-29 20:29:11 <andytoshi> i don't think RPC is fine, i think that's a barrier to adoption
1511 2014-01-29 20:29:29 <petertodd> andytoshi: *no* because the long-running version of it can use RPC, the other one can be whatever
1512 2014-01-29 20:29:34 <Ademan> andytoshi: barrier to what adoption?
1513 2014-01-29 20:29:43 <petertodd> andytoshi: you've got two separate user-groups there, at least initially
1514 2014-01-29 20:29:54 <gmaxwell> the fact that it's apparently hard for j-random-bitcoin-qt user to turn on RPC is annoying. We should probably be automatically setting up a config.
1515 2014-01-29 20:29:55 * Luke-Jr seconds Ademan
1516 2014-01-29 20:30:30 <Ademan> *while* I'm here, why can't bitcoind listen on a unix domain socket instead of a plain socket? Using filesystem permissions to secure communication would be a nice option.
1517 2014-01-29 20:30:33 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Settings buttons "Generate API key" and "Save API key"?
1518 2014-01-29 20:30:35 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: but what petertodd is saying is that there are people like himself who would setup a wallet with a bunch of coins in it to oppturnistically join with ~all comers.  That kind of user is fine on the RPC.
1519 2014-01-29 20:30:57 <petertodd> Ademan: because no-one has submitted a pull-req :)
1520 2014-01-29 20:31:05 <gmaxwell> Ademan: we already use the filesystems permissions to secure it by virtue of the rpc'password'.
1521 2014-01-29 20:31:11 <andytoshi> yeah, i hear petertodd. that's definitely something i will work on
1522 2014-01-29 20:31:23 <andytoshi> this week i have been working on replacing the server with something much less retarded
1523 2014-01-29 20:31:26 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, a local user could still DoS it
1524 2014-01-29 20:31:42 <petertodd> andytoshi: do a bitcoin-core pull-req and corresponding python-bitcoinlib pull-req and see if people like it
1525 2014-01-29 20:31:48 <andytoshi> like, with the current setup i can't do this because all the server communication is PHP code which has to ask bitcoind and coinjoin-server for every stupid thing
1526 2014-01-29 20:32:00 <petertodd> er, Ademan: ^
1527 2014-01-29 20:32:16 <wumpus> there's no reason why the RPC server couldn't be configured through a tab in the GUI options, just no one built that yet
1528 2014-01-29 20:32:24 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: heh, local user? you're brave :P
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1530 2014-01-29 20:32:41 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: ?
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1532 2014-01-29 20:32:51 <gmaxwell> wumpus: should it even be configured? why don't we on start set it up as localhost only? it's not like its secure against someone who can access the bitcoin directory in any case?
1533 2014-01-29 20:32:53 <Luke-Jr> binding localhost = only local users can connect
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1535 2014-01-29 20:33:18 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: I mean secure multi-user stuff has been mostly a failure
1536 2014-01-29 20:33:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: listening on localhost is less secure than a file in your home dir
1537 2014-01-29 20:33:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: note currently we never edit the config
1538 2014-01-29 20:33:30 <gmaxwell> e.g. bindling localhost plus a random rpc password.  the result may actually be more secure than what users get on their own since at least the rpcpassword will be good.
1539 2014-01-29 20:33:32 <sipa> (other local users can access)
1540 2014-01-29 20:33:37 <sipa> oh, right, password
1541 2014-01-29 20:33:40 <gmaxwell> Right.
1542 2014-01-29 20:33:41 <sipa> nvm
1543 2014-01-29 20:34:01 <wumpus> well if it binds on localhost it's fine with me
1544 2014-01-29 20:34:03 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I know we don't— and I don't really propose editing it as much as creating it if its not there.
1545 2014-01-29 20:34:19 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: I used to allow anonymous SSH access to my system; never had any problems (though I don't risk it anymore)
1546 2014-01-29 20:34:35 <gmaxwell> e.g. no config, create one with a random rpcpassword, server=1 binding only localhost (the default anyways)
1547 2014-01-29 20:34:36 <petertodd> gmaxwell: seems reasonable to me to create bitcoin.conf with the bitcoind suggested user/password if it doesn't exist
1548 2014-01-29 20:34:39 ahbritto has joined
1549 2014-01-29 20:34:41 <Ademan> Luke-Jr: ?!?!
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1551 2014-01-29 20:34:48 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: yeah, you're braver than me
1552 2014-01-29 20:34:56 <wumpus> is binding RPC on only localhost the default?
1553 2014-01-29 20:35:03 <Ademan> Luke-Jr: there are tons of local escalation exploits
1554 2014-01-29 20:35:23 <sipa> wumpus: yes
1555 2014-01-29 20:35:28 <Luke-Jr> Ademan: hence why I don't do it anymore :P
1556 2014-01-29 20:35:28 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: I feel nervous running untrusted code in VirtualBox vm, let alone lxc container, let alone local user...
1557 2014-01-29 20:35:44 <petertodd> (lxc doesn't isolate kernels)
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1576 2014-01-29 20:44:45 <Ademan> Hrm in the hearing someone (I believe it was the officiator/guy with the gavel) floated the idea of banning coin mixing
1577 2014-01-29 20:45:34 <maaku> we need CoinJoin, now.
1578 2014-01-29 20:45:48 <Ademan> maaku: hey, I think I stole your code
1579 2014-01-29 20:45:55 <maaku> Ademan: ?
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1581 2014-01-29 20:46:13 <Ademan> maaku: ah yep, can I pick your brain about blinded signatures? ;-)
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1584 2014-01-29 20:46:48 <Ademan> github.com/maaku/coinjoin has one fork, and it's me
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1586 2014-01-29 20:47:15 <maaku> oh yeah sure
1587 2014-01-29 20:47:30 <andytoshi> Ademan: re blinded sigs you might want to check out http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/p/note-on-blind-signature-schemes.html
1588 2014-01-29 20:47:50 <maaku> are you working on that code base?
1589 2014-01-29 20:47:56 <maaku> i have many uncommitted changes
1590 2014-01-29 20:48:00 <Ademan> maaku: yep
1591 2014-01-29 20:48:03 <Ademan> oh, me too :-)
1592 2014-01-29 20:48:37 <Ademan> for the first time ever I used git right and didn't make my changes in master though
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1596 2014-01-29 20:49:41 <Ademan> maaku: how much progress did you make?
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1598 2014-01-29 20:50:22 <maaku> well i'm reworking the message formats
1599 2014-01-29 20:50:32 <maaku> since there was some practical problems with how it was layed out
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1604 2014-01-29 20:51:22 <maaku> and it was pointed out by gmaxwell that you need separate keys per output bucket size, so that requires an extra half-round..
1605 2014-01-29 20:51:38 <Ademan> maaku: ah, I ripped the code apart, hopefully they're reconcileable with what you're doing. If I had known you were still actively working on it though, I would have probably avoided the drastic changes I made...
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1608 2014-01-29 20:51:59 <maaku> Ademan: what are you working on?
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1610 2014-01-29 20:52:33 <maaku> i'm managing about ~5 different projects at once, so progress is slow
1611 2014-01-29 20:52:43 <maaku> but this is only a proof of concept code base anyway
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1613 2014-01-29 20:52:56 <maaku> it's going to be rewritten in C++ an integrated into the reference client
1614 2014-01-29 20:54:01 <Ademan> maaku: basically I just got done moving everything around and trying to grok the existing code base. I was going to move forward with implementing the actual p2p layer
1615 2014-01-29 20:54:25 <Ademan> maaku: why c++? This stuff is all heavily I/O bound, Python is "fast enough" for it
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1617 2014-01-29 20:55:09 <maaku> Ademan: because it shouln't be an external application
1618 2014-01-29 20:55:15 <maaku> this *should* be built into wallets
1619 2014-01-29 20:55:19 <sipa> maaku: which project you're talking about now?
1620 2014-01-29 20:55:36 <Ademan> maaku: ah, could be I suppose
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1622 2014-01-29 20:55:42 <Ademan> sipa: coinjoin
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1625 2014-01-29 20:56:50 <maaku> e.g. give the "send coins" dialog a slider to specify how big an anonymity set you need
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1629 2014-01-29 20:57:43 <maaku> or add an advanced send dialog that lets you propose matching donations
1630 2014-01-29 20:58:06 <Ademan> maaku: well, regardless of the long term future, is there any way you could push your changes to a github branch or something? Or should I just consider us forked? heh
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1634 2014-01-29 21:00:00 <maaku> i will, hopefully in the next couple days
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1638 2014-01-29 21:02:26 <Ademan> maaku: I'll have my changes pushed in a similar timeframe
1639 2014-01-29 21:02:35 <Ademan> you probably won't have any interest in them, but just FYI and all
1640 2014-01-29 21:03:25 <maaku> Ademan: did you have a question about blind signatures?
1641 2014-01-29 21:03:57 <Ademan> maaku: nothing specific *yet*
1642 2014-01-29 21:04:48 <maaku> like andytoshi pointed out, the rsa blind signatures are probably not what will be used in the final protocol
1643 2014-01-29 21:05:14 <maaku> probably either schnorr or brands blind signing protocols, using the secp256k1 curve
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1646 2014-01-29 21:05:56 <andytoshi> Ademan: definitely look into the schorr signatures. ordinary schnorr sigs have good properties which are potentially useful for coinjoin (eg additivity) though i haven't thought too deeply about it.
1647 2014-01-29 21:06:03 ahbritto has joined
1648 2014-01-29 21:06:27 <andytoshi> RSA scares the hell out of me because you are doing ordinary number theory and that's a huge huge field
1649 2014-01-29 21:06:56 <maaku> andytoshi: if you do take some time to think about it, let us know if you come up with anything
1650 2014-01-29 21:06:57 <andytoshi> but that is not really a rational fear, the rsa assumption has withstood attack reasonably well for a long time
1651 2014-01-29 21:07:37 <andytoshi> maaku: i will. i'm working on a jsonrpc protocol right now which will give users a ton more freedom and control. ideally i will set it up so that the server is just another peer
1652 2014-01-29 21:07:53 <andytoshi> and only "priviledged" in the sense that people just use it without bothering to do their own peer discovery
1653 2014-01-29 21:08:10 <andytoshi> privileged*
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1655 2014-01-29 21:08:35 <andytoshi> so for that reason i am thinking more about controlling the number of participants, requiring blinding, etc
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1706 2014-01-29 21:43:52 * jgarzik turns on CPU mining locally, for mainnet
1707 2014-01-29 21:43:59 <jgarzik> hopefully my transaction will confirm more rapidly
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1709 2014-01-29 21:45:27 <Ademan> hah
1710 2014-01-29 21:46:18 <Ademan> andytoshi: that sounds an awful lot like turning the mainline client into an electrum supernode
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1721 2014-01-29 21:52:45 <sipa> jgarzik: on average, it will
1722 2014-01-29 21:53:25 <Ademan> how many centuries will it take, on average, for your CPU to find a block? ;-)
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1725 2014-01-29 21:55:13 <sipa> ;;genrate 10
1726 2014-01-29 21:55:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2193847870.17, is 2.29234908796e-06 BTC per day and 9.55145453315e-08 BTC per hour.
1727 2014-01-29 21:55:23 agricocb has joined
1728 2014-01-29 21:55:52 <sipa> ;;calc 25*10**6/2.29234908/365/100
1729 2014-01-29 21:55:52 <gribble> 298.790229126
1730 2014-01-29 21:57:00 <jgarzik> ;;gentime 6
1731 2014-01-29 21:57:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2193847870.17, is 49798 years, 19 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, and 34 seconds
1732 2014-01-29 21:57:10 <Ademan> ;;calc 25/2.29234908796e-06/356/100
1733 2014-01-29 21:57:11 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1734 2014-01-29 21:57:22 <Ademan> hrm, python didn't mind the scientific notation
1735 2014-01-29 21:57:23 <jgarzik> but I could get lucky
1736 2014-01-29 21:57:29 <jgarzik> multiple times in a row
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1739 2014-01-29 21:58:13 <Michail1> When do we get gribble changed to show genrate in GH?
1740 2014-01-29 21:58:45 <jgarzik> ;;gentime 420000
1741 2014-01-29 21:58:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 420000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2193847870.17, is 37 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 54 minutes, and 37 seconds
1742 2014-01-29 21:59:02 <jgarzik> (the babyjet)
1743 2014-01-29 21:59:19 <jgarzik> ;;gentime 820000
1744 2014-01-29 21:59:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 820000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2193847870.17, is 18 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 57 minutes, and 14 seconds
1745 2014-01-29 21:59:32 <jgarzik> (the farm)  should I solo mine?
1746 2014-01-29 21:59:34 <jgarzik> ;p
1747 2014-01-29 21:59:36 <Michail1> 25 in 37 weeks.  Did that account for any estimated difficulty changes?  HEH
1748 2014-01-29 22:00:19 <Michail1> jgarzik - Ummm, depends on how many jets you have.  Obviously WAY more the 1 for solo.  right?  ;)
1749 2014-01-29 22:00:39 <jgarzik> just one
1750 2014-01-29 22:00:45 <Michail1> Uhhhh, gl
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1758 2014-01-29 22:03:50 <CodeShark> source code for GUI multisig wallet is now available: https://ciphrex.com/
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1764 2014-01-29 22:09:21 <xabbix> @CodeShark looks good, did you just make this repo public? Or is it live for so long without any stars/forks
1765 2014-01-29 22:09:31 <CodeShark> just made it public :)
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1767 2014-01-29 22:10:27 <xabbix> Thought so.. looks interesting, starred it and will look through soon :)
1768 2014-01-29 22:10:38 <CodeShark> awesome - thanks :)
1769 2014-01-29 22:11:29 <sipa> jgarzik: i wouldn't solo mine with an expected income of less than 1 block per 1-2 weeks
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1773 2014-01-29 22:14:00 <phantomcircuit> sipa, that's pushing it too
1774 2014-01-29 22:14:09 <phantomcircuit> ;;gentime 60000
1775 2014-01-29 22:14:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 60000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2193847870.17, is 4 years, 51 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 22 minutes, and 23 seconds
1776 2014-01-29 22:14:22 <phantomcircuit> lol bfl jalapeno
1777 2014-01-29 22:14:48 <sipa> phantomcircuit: at the limit
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1837 2014-01-29 23:06:47 <jgarzik> sipa, was just being facetious :)
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1840 2014-01-29 23:06:53 <jgarzik> sipa, I wouldn't either
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