1 2014-02-07 00:00:04 <phantomcircuit> sipa, uh
   2 2014-02-07 00:00:05 <BlueMatt> unless miners decide to hard fork
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   4 2014-02-07 00:00:21 <phantomcircuit> no they cant
   5 2014-02-07 00:00:31 <sipa> BlueMatt: because of this rule, that would technically only be a soft fork
   6 2014-02-07 00:00:38 <kinlo> eh, there is a v2 transaction version?  what is the difference, is there some documentation?
   7 2014-02-07 00:00:41 <sipa> actually, neither
   8 2014-02-07 00:00:44 <sipa> it cannot fork
   9 2014-02-07 00:00:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: the definition is not clear here
  10 2014-02-07 00:01:12 <sipa> kinlo: v2 block, not v2 transaction
  11 2014-02-07 00:01:17 <sipa> bip34
  12 2014-02-07 00:01:23 <phantomcircuit> is block.nVersion == 2 is >95% of the previous 1000 blocks block.nVersion == 1 blocks are rejected, so you couldn't make a chain of nVersion == 1 blocks long enough to reset clients using nVersion==2
  13 2014-02-07 00:01:35 <sipa> oh, right
  14 2014-02-07 00:01:40 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: sure you could, miners could decide to fork
  15 2014-02-07 00:01:41 <kinlo> yes, but v2 blocks can't be reversed right?  miners won't build on v1 blocks anymore
  16 2014-02-07 00:01:45 <BlueMatt> you'd need lots of miners, though
  17 2014-02-07 00:01:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|phantomcircuit: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/dfd0d38faef92e8a0af88b56c3020a7324c13d96/src/m4/bitcoin_qt.m4#L325
  18 2014-02-07 00:02:00 <sipa> sorry, i missed the second rule
  19 2014-02-07 00:02:01 <BlueMatt> (hence: effectively hard fork)
  20 2014-02-07 00:02:06 <sipa> yes, it'd be a hard fork
  21 2014-02-07 00:02:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you would have to go back to before the very first block in which nVersion==2 was required
  22 2014-02-07 00:02:33 <phantomcircuit> otherwise all the current clients would reject the block with nVersion==1
  23 2014-02-07 00:02:40 <sipa> if you hard fork, you can do what you want :)
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  25 2014-02-07 00:03:00 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: hmm, yes
  26 2014-02-07 00:03:05 <BlueMatt> oh well, not gonna happen, really
  27 2014-02-07 00:03:16 home_jg is now known as jgarzik
  28 2014-02-07 00:03:18 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i'll do it if you give me... say 400m usd
  29 2014-02-07 00:03:25 <phantomcircuit> (ballpark)
  30 2014-02-07 00:03:46 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes...if I had even 1/1000th of that in total...
  31 2014-02-07 00:03:47 * jgarzik bits 399m
  32 2014-02-07 00:03:52 <jgarzik> *bids
  33 2014-02-07 00:03:59 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, SOLD
  34 2014-02-07 00:04:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|phantomcircuit: Ah, looks like qrencode uses libpng in its build
  35 2014-02-07 00:04:09 <BlueMatt> yes
  36 2014-02-07 00:04:11 <BlueMatt> it does
  37 2014-02-07 00:04:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'll do it for $399,998,999
  38 2014-02-07 00:04:13 <phantomcircuit> michagogo|cloud, ah that's fine then
  39 2014-02-07 00:04:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|erm
  40 2014-02-07 00:04:22 <sipa> sold for 399 meters to jgarzik
  41 2014-02-07 00:04:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'll do it for $398,999,999
  42 2014-02-07 00:05:38 <cjd> ...3 bitcoiners walk into a channel...
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  46 2014-02-07 00:07:13 * cjd wanders off to document his blockchain based realtime collaborative text editor
  47 2014-02-07 00:07:25 <sipa> lol
  48 2014-02-07 00:07:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|cjd: ...you're joking, right?
  49 2014-02-07 00:07:35 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: i'm sure :p
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  51 2014-02-07 00:08:09 <cjd> yup https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdrt
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 181 2014-02-07 02:41:43 <use_zfs_yo> hi, i'm having an issue with bitcoind on my coinpunk server. i'm getting the following:
 182 2014-02-07 02:41:47 <use_zfs_yo> bitcoind error: unrecognized: {"code":"ENOTFOUND","errno":"ENOTFOUND","syscall":"getaddrinfo"}
 183 2014-02-07 02:43:41 <Luke-Jr> uh, are you running Linux?
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 185 2014-02-07 02:44:17 <use_zfs_yo> yes, i'm sorry. latest ubuntu server
 186 2014-02-07 02:44:42 <Luke-Jr> where did you get bitcoind? what version?
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 188 2014-02-07 02:45:30 <use_zfs_yo> coinpunk install instructions had me use https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/archive/watchonly.tar.gz
 189 2014-02-07 02:46:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ^
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 203 2014-02-07 02:55:37 <jgarzik> Is there any website that currently shows an idea of how much bandwidth a bitcoin node uses, on a daily basis?
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 207 2014-02-07 02:59:58 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I think it varies greatly at the moment :/
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 209 2014-02-07 03:03:44 <use_zfs_yo> jgarzik: i think my upload has increased by 100 or 200 gb per month
 210 2014-02-07 03:03:46 <use_zfs_yo> if not more
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 212 2014-02-07 03:04:53 <jcorgan> jgarzik: i can look on my EC2, node, but it fluctuates between 50 and and 100 onion nodes kinda unpredictably
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 221 2014-02-07 03:10:21 <jgarzik> jcorgan, a ballpark estimate is fine.  This is related to a list question about mission C1 ;p
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 223 2014-02-07 03:10:50 <jgarzik> I have two dedicated server nodes, but no useful means to look in the past at bandwidth usage
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 225 2014-02-07 03:11:32 <jcorgan> i can only go back the two weeks that EC2 keeps track of for free
 226 2014-02-07 03:11:46 <jgarzik> jcorgan, just a daily average, for now, if that's doable
 227 2014-02-07 03:11:51 <jcorgan> sure
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 234 2014-02-07 03:21:10 <jcorgan> with an average of about 80 hidden node connections, looks like it is about 1.6GB/day incoming and 2.5GB/day outgoing. incoming is pretty steady, outgoing is very very bursty
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 301 2014-02-07 04:40:50 <helo> is it normal to have two outgoing connections to the same hidden service node?
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 303 2014-02-07 04:41:38 <helo> v0.8.6.0-g03a7d67-beta
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 342 2014-02-07 05:22:59 <Cattales> hey all, if I use listUnspent
 343 2014-02-07 05:23:26 <Cattales> Is that 100% the list of transactions of which I can spend?
 344 2014-02-07 05:23:44 <Cattales> What if there are some crazy like transactions in there using script
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 347 2014-02-07 05:24:33 <Luke-Jr> Cattales: if they're using custom scripts, then they by definition aren't in your wallet
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 367 2014-02-07 05:41:08 <The_Fly> ahem, sorry if the site i made offends any of the coredevs... https://the-million-bitcoin-homepage.com/
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 371 2014-02-07 05:41:37 <The_Fly> in my defense, i did put a lot of work into it and hope it ends up chucking money out to charity (as designed)
 372 2014-02-07 05:42:06 <The_Fly> if not then, i learned a lot about a lot along the way so... no loss on my part
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 432 2014-02-07 06:40:21 <Cattales> Thanks Luke-Jr
 433 2014-02-07 06:40:45 <Cattales> I guess I'll have to learn more about script to know that fundamentally
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 461 2014-02-07 07:20:59 <ZjP> So did someone actually mutated-echo-bot mtgox, or was it all a screwup on their end?
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 466 2014-02-07 07:27:36 <ZjP> Gox screwed up their own transaction signatures, such that it failed the reference clients >0.8.0 check, and some folks fixed the signatures to their withdrawal transactions, putting mtgox's wallet in an utter state of disarray where they can't determine what money has been properly sent and what hasn't?
 467 2014-02-07 07:28:13 damethos has joined
 468 2014-02-07 07:28:15 <ZjP> (Without horrible, expensive passes over the blockchain)
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 477 2014-02-07 07:35:00 <sturles> MtGox always created their signatures in the same way, and bitcoin-qt/bitcoind stopped relaying some of their transactions in 0.8.0 and later versions.
 478 2014-02-07 07:35:25 <sturles> Due to padding of the R and/or S-values in the signature.
 479 2014-02-07 07:35:53 <ZjP> Why did that seemingly suddenly become a problem, then?
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 483 2014-02-07 07:37:42 <sturles> It gradually became a problem.  It suddnly become a big problem when someone started exploiting this by removing the padding and submit the changed transaction.
 484 2014-02-07 07:37:49 <ZjP> ah
 485 2014-02-07 07:37:50 <ZjP> makes sense
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 487 2014-02-07 07:38:19 <ZjP> it was all in the background noise of general complaints of 'mtgox sucks', until someone exploited/fixed their transactions
 488 2014-02-07 07:38:30 <sturles> The transaction would get a new hash and MtGox wouldn't recognize it as it's own.  Not marking the inputs used as spent.
 489 2014-02-07 07:38:43 <ZjP> right, thus causing the wallet chaos
 490 2014-02-07 07:38:46 jbitcm- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 491 2014-02-07 07:38:48 <sturles> Yep.
 492 2014-02-07 07:39:03 <gmaxwell> I even encouraged people to do that not anticipating that their code couldn't handle it…
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 494 2014-02-07 07:39:48 <ZjP> I saw a quote saying it was a O^n! operation to fix?
 495 2014-02-07 07:39:55 <Apocalyptic> so you're saying some coins got through and got refunded as well because the original tx failed
 496 2014-02-07 07:39:58 <ZjP> O(N^2!)
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 499 2014-02-07 07:46:53 <gmaxwell> ZjP: nah, you're crossing conversations.
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 502 2014-02-07 07:47:37 <gmaxwell> Apocalyptic: potentially. But regardless of where the funds ended up their wallet end up getting desynced about which coins were already spent or not.
 503 2014-02-07 07:47:44 <gmaxwell> This is also entirely offtopic for this channel.
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 505 2014-02-07 07:48:04 <ZjP> gmaxwell: Someone pasted a bunch of text from you together in a reddit post, I was trying to decipher it, they included that.
 506 2014-02-07 07:48:24 <gmaxwell> gee, how nice of them.
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 653 2014-02-07 10:51:01 <puzl> omg I keep getting banned from #bitcoin by an insanely broad mask
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 675 2014-02-07 11:37:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;seen petertodd
 676 2014-02-07 11:37:35 <gribble> petertodd was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <petertodd> in april I'll have one I can walk to
 677 2014-02-07 11:38:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell petertodd Will the code you write a security flaw into be visible from your github page?
 678 2014-02-07 11:38:45 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 679 2014-02-07 11:39:13 <sipa> petertodd: a second preimage does require O(2^n) steps, not O2^(n/2))
 680 2014-02-07 11:40:00 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: it'll be in the language "English" :)
 681 2014-02-07 11:40:40 <petertodd> sipa: ?
 682 2014-02-07 11:42:00 <petertodd> sipa: second pre-image is the one with the birthday attack speedup
 683 2014-02-07 11:42:25 <sipa> petertodd: no, a collisioj attack has the birthday speedup
 684 2014-02-07 11:42:46 <sipa> which is only true if you just ned two identical hashes, from different inputs
 685 2014-02-07 11:42:52 <sipa> but neither input is fixed
 686 2014-02-07 11:43:00 <petertodd> sipa: gah, aw fuck
 687 2014-02-07 11:43:10 <sipa> here one of the inputs is fixed, making it a preimage and nkt a collision attack
 688 2014-02-07 11:43:32 <petertodd> sipa: well, lets see if someone corrects me :)
 689 2014-02-07 11:43:52 <petertodd> sipa: more than anything I want people to come from this thinking that this shit is hard and you should be very careful
 690 2014-02-07 11:45:01 <petertodd> sipa: and humans are fallible and make stupid mistakes :)
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 692 2014-02-07 11:47:34 <TD> lol
 693 2014-02-07 11:47:50 <TD> the lesson we learned today children is ...... crypto is hard!
 694 2014-02-07 11:48:03 <petertodd> TD: exactly
 695 2014-02-07 11:48:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: one of the inputs is fixed? Hmm?
 696 2014-02-07 11:48:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unless I misread, you're "mining" both versions for as many hashes as possible
 697 2014-02-07 11:49:01 <petertodd> kinda bothers me no-one got question #2, the collision resistance one; easy way to screw up a protocol
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 699 2014-02-07 11:49:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And looking for any hash from the real version to match any hash from the malicious version
 700 2014-02-07 11:51:12 nightlingo has joined
 701 2014-02-07 11:52:03 <sipa> petertodd: oh, i am wrong
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 703 2014-02-07 11:52:15 <sipa> petertodd: you do have the birthday speedup
 704 2014-02-07 11:52:59 <petertodd> sipa: ok, so partial-second-preimage *is* the right term for the attack I'm talking about
 705 2014-02-07 11:53:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, am I wrong, or is it not the full birthday speedup?
 706 2014-02-07 11:53:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because it's not any 2
 707 2014-02-07 11:53:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's one of these and one of those
 708 2014-02-07 11:53:44 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: ah, yes, that's a good point, because we want exactly a bad and a good hash to collide
 709 2014-02-07 11:53:59 <sipa> petertodd: no, partial collision
 710 2014-02-07 11:54:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Going back to the birthday analogy, you'd be looking not for any 2 people to match, but for a male and a female to match
 711 2014-02-07 11:54:30 <sipa> petertodd: preimage would imply that one of the plaintexts is given
 712 2014-02-07 11:55:07 * petertodd re-reads wikipedia
 713 2014-02-07 11:55:10 <sipa> you're just looking for any two plaintexts (with some structure) that have the same hash
 714 2014-02-07 11:55:37 <petertodd> sipa: yes, it is a partial collision, so you're correct (though at least I was just using the wrong term for the right idea)
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 716 2014-02-07 11:56:02 <sipa> yes, everything you said is right, except the name of the attack
 717 2014-02-07 11:56:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Say you find a partial collision
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 719 2014-02-07 11:56:18 <petertodd> sipa: better than the other way around!
 720 2014-02-07 11:56:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You only have a 50% chance of that being usable
 721 2014-02-07 11:56:53 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: still has the birthday speedup
 722 2014-02-07 11:56:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It could be good-good, bad-bad, good-bad, or bad-good
 723 2014-02-07 11:57:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: only half the speedup, though?
 724 2014-02-07 11:57:26 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: the math for the birthday attack already ignores ordering
 725 2014-02-07 11:57:59 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: smells more like 1/3rd, as it's good-good, bad-bad, but only bad-good works, but even that's probably wrong because it's not like you have to restart...
 726 2014-02-07 11:58:00 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: not very re
 727 2014-02-07 11:58:03 <sipa> evant
 728 2014-02-07 11:58:04 <PLM3> Yeah hey. Trying to do bitcoind + vardir on a network mount. Is there any way to tell leveldb to not try to lock the DB or something?
 729 2014-02-07 11:58:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: ...if I understand you correctly, nonono
 730 2014-02-07 11:58:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bad idea.
 731 2014-02-07 11:59:00 <PLM3> my network fs doesn't support locks. I believe
 732 2014-02-07 11:59:04 <PLM3> so bitcoind fails to start
 733 2014-02-07 11:59:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, don't run it over the network
 734 2014-02-07 11:59:42 <PLM3> I'm not going to share the db with other clients, it's just that the host that runs bitcoind doesn't have any storage
 735 2014-02-07 11:59:52 <sipa> what fs is that?
 736 2014-02-07 11:59:55 <PLM3> 9p
 737 2014-02-07 12:00:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: are you not able to add storage?
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 739 2014-02-07 12:00:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You only need a couple dozen GB
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 741 2014-02-07 12:02:21 <PLM3> michagogo|cloud: I can do tmpfs mounts and regulary cp all the data to 9p
 742 2014-02-07 12:02:36 <sipa> that doesn't give you atomicity
 743 2014-02-07 12:02:37 <PLM3> but that would be a risk of losing new wallets, if I forget to cp
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 745 2014-02-07 12:02:54 <sipa> put your wallet elsewhere
 746 2014-02-07 12:03:15 <sipa> the wallet and blockchain data are independent
 747 2014-02-07 12:03:24 <PLM3> I see
 748 2014-02-07 12:03:33 <PLM3> brb, rtfm'ing
 749 2014-02-07 12:03:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: you don't want to copy the data out while the node is running
 750 2014-02-07 12:03:40 <sipa> you can create a symlink for thr blovks and vhainstate
 751 2014-02-07 12:03:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: are they at thi- ah
 752 2014-02-07 12:04:05 <sipa> i need to learn to type on a tablet
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 754 2014-02-07 12:06:31 <PLM3> ok, neither man bitcoind nor man bitcoin.conf tells me how to change the location of my wallet
 755 2014-02-07 12:06:44 <sipa> you can't
 756 2014-02-07 12:06:57 <sipa> but you can create symlinks for blocks and chainstate
 757 2014-02-07 12:07:24 <PLM3> blocks, chainstate = blockhain, everything else = wallet + logs ?
 758 2014-02-07 12:07:36 <sipa> indeed
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 762 2014-02-07 12:10:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Chainstate is the utxo set
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 775 2014-02-07 12:17:20 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: oh, I've got it: so basically you have two equally sized sets, good commits and bad commits. the first good commit can make up to n pairs from the n bad commits, the second n-1 pairs, the third n-2 etc. thus we get n! possible pairs. A given pair has a 1/2^m chance of being a match, where m is the # of bits matched, or 1-1/2^m of not being a match. We want to know the probability that all n pairs failed to match, thus we get ...
 776 2014-02-07 12:17:26 <petertodd> ... (1-1/2^m)^{n!}
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 780 2014-02-07 12:19:10 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: now, how do you simplify that to get an approximation?
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 783 2014-02-07 12:22:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|petertodd: ...I don't know?
 784 2014-02-07 12:23:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:-/
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 791 2014-02-07 12:29:02 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: heh, it's also fun how that's not even correct, because collissions between good and good reduces the number of potential candidates :/
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 793 2014-02-07 12:29:40 <money> hi so it seems that bitcoin doesn't have a bug, but systematically bitcoin is having a bug, when combined. Because someone changed the interface of certain things.
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 796 2014-02-07 12:30:07 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: but anyway, your original point that each time you find a collission, there is a 1/3rd chance of it working, means the chance has to be fairly close to sqrt(n); within a factor of 3. the sqrt() thing is an approximation already
 797 2014-02-07 12:30:15 <money> I thought that was standard C++ practice never to change the interface of things accross version , especially when you are printing money.
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 799 2014-02-07 12:30:46 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: wikipedia doesn't say how the sqrt() approximation is derived anyway
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 802 2014-02-07 12:35:52 <PLM3> does bitcoind perform atomic db operations? If I shutdown my system by just unplugging power cable, should I expect any errors?
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 804 2014-02-07 12:38:52 <wumpus> PLM3: just unplugging the power cable can and will cause disk corruption
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 807 2014-02-07 12:41:37 <PLM3> wumpus: I mean at the application level, bitcoind, not OS or filesystem
 808 2014-02-07 12:41:58 <PLM3> I've already got OS level covered, filesystem is still *sort of*
 809 2014-02-07 12:43:57 <sipa> money: no clue what you're talking about
 810 2014-02-07 12:44:14 <sipa> wumpus: could you add the suggested 0.9 release notes to the repo too, so they can be edited/updated before final?
 811 2014-02-07 12:45:00 <sipa> PLM3: it uses fsync/fdatasync to synchronize across dependent operations
 812 2014-02-07 12:45:20 <sipa> PLM3: for example, any before updating the block index, the written blocks are flushed
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 814 2014-02-07 12:48:54 <PLM3> I see
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 818 2014-02-07 12:51:42 <money> well mtgox is having problems because they changed how bitcoind works right, shouldn't the interface have been standard for all releases untill all bitcoins were mined?
 819 2014-02-07 12:52:38 <sipa> money: almost a year ago, we made the rule for transactions _to be relayed_ more strict
 820 2014-02-07 12:52:48 <sipa> money: as the definition was fuzzy and very hard to reimplement exactly
 821 2014-02-07 12:52:54 <sturles> money: It was an important change.  All clients used to be vulnerable.
 822 2014-02-07 12:53:21 <sipa> what was _valid_ never changed
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 824 2014-02-07 12:54:00 <sipa> money: and "until all bitcoind were mined" is irrelevant - there will still be transactions afterwards
 825 2014-02-07 12:54:16 <sipa> and the problem was exactly that no standard existed, so it was unclear what was allowed
 826 2014-02-07 12:54:25 <sipa> 0.8.0 introduced a very strict but clear rule
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 829 2014-02-07 12:59:59 <money> and couldn't these changes be enforced in some way? (AKA you can't do bitcoin transactions unless you are using the new way?)
 830 2014-02-07 13:00:46 <sipa> we can't make mtgox update their client
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 832 2014-02-07 13:01:09 <money> i see
 833 2014-02-07 13:01:11 <sturles> It was basically what happened, yes.  Transactions not confirming to the canonical format would not get confirmed.
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 839 2014-02-07 13:07:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;seen wumpus
 840 2014-02-07 13:07:23 <gribble> wumpus was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 28 minutes and 29 seconds ago: <wumpus> PLM3: just unplugging the power cable can and will cause disk corruption
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 842 2014-02-07 13:07:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: Did you rebase or squash or amend or something your 3622 branch?
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 868 2014-02-07 13:24:48 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: yes, I added zip argument to avoid adding unix metadata and normalized the tar.gz tarball permissions
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 870 2014-02-07 13:26:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I grabbed the Linux descriptors from 4debddcc2ebe28a7ae35f006b8fa754713aaa80a off my raring VM, just to see if the precise VM matches the raring VM, or everything else
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 884 2014-02-07 13:38:34 <cryptofish82> So, I want to send a transaction with 2 inputs and 4 outputs. I'm currently signing each input separately with all outputs as SIGHASH_ALL|SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY.
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 887 2014-02-07 13:39:32 <cryptofish82> It works fine with 1 input and 2 outputs, but when I get to 2 inputs and 4 outputs it gets rejected. Any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
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 890 2014-02-07 13:41:08 <sipa> cryptofish82: you have to do something special to the inputs you're not signing, when computing the signature hash
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 892 2014-02-07 13:41:57 <cryptofish82> sipa, what's the special thing you have to do? i'm just setting the scriptSig on each input currently
 893 2014-02-07 13:42:12 <sipa> cryptofish82: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script.cpp#L1022
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 897 2014-02-07 13:48:46 <cryptofish82> sipa, thanks
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 903 2014-02-07 13:58:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|38658a215429992a8d066f827b6f46ca63abc14173983647d16ac0e21a9ddfb7  bitcoin-deps-linux32-gitian-r3.zip
 904 2014-02-07 13:58:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2dc3b04d0bb03e1ad0c18dfe1c5635aa6e3741a7a6173203554d8345cd5b5a95  bitcoin-deps-linux64-gitian-r3.zip
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 908 2014-02-07 14:05:22 <PLM3> Is it normal that when I do "bitcoind -?" it first tries to init .bitcoin dir, fails, prints error message about ReadOnly file system and never shows no help message?
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 915 2014-02-07 14:10:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: you want --help
 916 2014-02-07 14:11:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|anything with a single - is a configuration option
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 920 2014-02-07 14:12:55 <PLM3> michagogo|cloud: http://bpaste.net/show/176520/
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 923 2014-02-07 14:14:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: Okay, sounds like that doesn't work -- it could be considered a bug (maybe?)
 924 2014-02-07 14:14:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Open an issue, perhaps?
 925 2014-02-07 14:14:24 <PLM3> that's exactly what I'm asking about, is this "my end" issue, or a real bug?
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 927 2014-02-07 14:14:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, bitcoind isn't designed to run with a ro fs
 928 2014-02-07 14:14:51 <sipa> running on a read-only filesystem is not supported
 929 2014-02-07 14:14:56 <PLM3> what?
 930 2014-02-07 14:15:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But you could argue that --help should work
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 932 2014-02-07 14:15:16 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: agree there
 933 2014-02-07 14:15:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or, to put it another way: --help not working on RO FS isn't a design decision.
 934 2014-02-07 14:15:32 <sipa> the datadir stuff should happen after processing command line options
 935 2014-02-07 14:15:35 <PLM3> I mean, /run and vardir are rw
 936 2014-02-07 14:15:36 <sipa> right, indeed
 937 2014-02-07 14:15:53 <sipa> PLM3: the database is stored in the datadir, it has to be r/w
 938 2014-02-07 14:16:01 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 939 2014-02-07 14:16:04 <sipa> you can change the location of the datadir though
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 941 2014-02-07 14:16:10 <sipa> -datadir=path
 942 2014-02-07 14:16:19 <PLM3> understand
 943 2014-02-07 14:16:30 <wumpus> I remember fixing that for bitcoin-qt, but for bitcoind it seems to be still the wrong way around
 944 2014-02-07 14:16:30 <sipa> but yes, you should not get this error when asking for help
 945 2014-02-07 14:16:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: It looks like lxc in a precise vbox VM with descriptors from 4debddcc2ebe28a7ae35f006b8fa754713aaa80a does match deps and boost
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 947 2014-02-07 14:17:16 <sipa> wumpus: couldn't you use faketime when building qt?
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 949 2014-02-07 14:17:29 <PLM3> so I need rw even if I want to use bitcoind as a thin RPC client?
 950 2014-02-07 14:17:33 <wumpus> sipa: no, you can't use faketime while building qt, it gets into an infinite loop
 951 2014-02-07 14:17:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: Use bitcoin-cli for that
 952 2014-02-07 14:17:50 <sipa> wumpus: ugh
 953 2014-02-07 14:17:59 <wumpus> qmake can't cope with it
 954 2014-02-07 14:18:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's odd... I wonder what's different about a raring vbox VM, that isn't present in a precise VM nor a raring DO droplet
 955 2014-02-07 14:18:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(which is a KVM VM, IIRC)
 956 2014-02-07 14:18:16 <sipa> PLM3: yeah, bitcoin-cli has been split out of bitcoind for reasons like this
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 958 2014-02-07 14:18:25 <sipa> PLM3: though i can't say we actually checked that it works
 959 2014-02-07 14:18:32 <PLM3> nice
 960 2014-02-07 14:18:47 <sipa> if bitcoin-cli cannot run without a datadir, i'd say it's a bug
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 963 2014-02-07 14:19:46 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: I wouldn't know either...
 964 2014-02-07 14:19:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: a bug, iff you provide it with rpcuser and rpcpassword on the command line
 965 2014-02-07 14:19:55 <PLM3> this bitcoin-cli, is it official bitcoin stuff or 3rd party/
 966 2014-02-07 14:19:56 <PLM3> ?
 967 2014-02-07 14:20:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: part of Bitcoin Core
 968 2014-02-07 14:20:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Same build as bitcoind and bitcoin-qt
 969 2014-02-07 14:20:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(in git master and v0.9.0rc1)
 970 2014-02-07 14:21:06 <PLM3> can't find in gentoo tree =/
 971 2014-02-07 14:21:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|PLM3: git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
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 979 2014-02-07 14:25:05 <cryptofish82> sipa, looking for examples of CTransactionSignatureSerializer::SerializeInput, and Im surprised to find it's literally not used once in the code base. There's not even unit tests for it
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 988 2014-02-07 14:28:48 <sipa> cryptofish82: eh, it is used, and there are unit tests
 989 2014-02-07 14:29:19 <cryptofish82> sipa, oh must have messed up my search . thx
 990 2014-02-07 14:29:27 <sipa> cryptofish82: not that it is not in 0.8.6
 991 2014-02-07 14:29:33 <sipa> only in git head and 0.9.0rc1
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 997 2014-02-07 14:32:38 <helo> are rc1 windows binaries up anywhere?
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1001 2014-02-07 14:34:06 <helo> i found what appears to be a rc1 bitcoind.exe on bluematt's server, but was hoping for -qt for windows
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1004 2014-02-07 14:35:02 <PLM3> where the bugzilla for bitcoind? in github ?
1005 2014-02-07 14:35:40 <wumpus> PLM3: github issues
1006 2014-02-07 14:35:42 <sipa> github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
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1008 2014-02-07 14:35:59 <wumpus> helo: no, rc1 was never really released
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1010 2014-02-07 14:36:26 <wumpus> you could do your own windows build with gitian but they'll not be deterministic
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1014 2014-02-07 14:37:12 <wumpus> ugh, ReadConfigFile creates ~/.bitcoin if it doesn't exist, and fails if it cannot be created
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1018 2014-02-07 14:40:11 <wumpus> but only if -datadir is not overridden, if -datadir= provided and points to a non-writable (but not non-readable) place, everything is ok... curious
1019 2014-02-07 14:41:03 <wumpus> even if this is -datadir=/home/user/.bitcoin
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1025 2014-02-07 14:44:59 <pimper> Hi
1026 2014-02-07 14:45:12 <pimper> Does anyone know what Localbitcoin uses for location? Is it google api?
1027 2014-02-07 14:45:22 <pimper> For the location service.
1028 2014-02-07 14:45:52 disident has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1029 2014-02-07 14:46:44 <cryptofish82> sipa, can you point me to a file it's used in :(
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1031 2014-02-07 14:47:09 <sipa> cryptofish82: a few lines below
1032 2014-02-07 14:48:44 <PLM3> sipa: that page has like 4 issues, you sure it's the correct link?
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1035 2014-02-07 14:49:10 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?direction=desc&sort=updated&state=open
1036 2014-02-07 14:49:19 <sipa> 327 open, 3307 closed
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1039 2014-02-07 14:49:54 <PLM3> my bad. I've accidentally milestone filtered
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1044 2014-02-07 14:51:40 <ItsDom> When parsing the script for a pay-to-pubkeyhash transaction, after OP_HASH160, how does it know that the next bit is a constant to push to the stack?
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1048 2014-02-07 14:53:24 <ItsDom> ooh, does it have a sneak push the next 20 bytes slipped in there that's not mentioned on the wiki?
1049 2014-02-07 14:53:29 <ItsDom> sneaky*
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1054 2014-02-07 14:58:01 <sipa> ItsDom: it's just a data push that follows
1055 2014-02-07 14:58:08 <sipa> OP_HASH160 does not know what follows
1056 2014-02-07 14:58:12 <sipa> and doesn't care
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1058 2014-02-07 14:59:59 <ItsDom> yeah, I've figured it out. I was confused because on the wiki it says the script is OP_DUP OP_HASH160 <pubkeyhash> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG, but there's an 0x14 after OP_HASH160 which pushes next 20 bytes to stack.
1059 2014-02-07 15:00:17 <sipa> that's the serialization of <pubkeyhash>
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1062 2014-02-07 15:02:19 <ItsDom> Aah, that makes sense. Just saying that the actual script that is in the blockchain though has 0x14 which isn't actually part of the the pubkeyhash (but as you said, it's added to the beginning as part of the serialisation)
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1270 2014-02-07 17:12:48 <kostagr33k> hey guys hows it going? I had a few questions about the bitcoind api calls and wanted to know if this is the right place?
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1278 2014-02-07 17:17:03 <ItsDom> kostagr33k: "don't ask to ask, just ask" :)
1279 2014-02-07 17:17:08 <kostagr33k> heh ok
1280 2014-02-07 17:18:13 <kostagr33k> when using the bitcoind sendtoaddress API call like this "sendtoaddress BTC_ADDRESS 2.5" Is there an automatic fee attached? If so is that fee removed from the 2.5 Output TX or from my wallets balance?
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1282 2014-02-07 17:19:46 <wumpus> yes, a fee is attached if necessary
1283 2014-02-07 17:20:20 <wumpus> it is added to the transaction, not subtracted from the 2.5
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1289 2014-02-07 17:22:13 <kostagr33k> ok thanks .. now if I'm going to automate sending 90 transactions to different addresses which could potentially create many unspent outputs back to my wallet, when does the Fee start going up greatly? in other words a fee is also attached when you start using many smaller coins to send a transaction right?
1290 2014-02-07 17:23:09 <kostagr33k> and assuming bitcoind API automatically creates those change addresses for you by using the sendtoaddress Call? nothing else should need to be doing in the script besides calling sendtoaddress?
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1294 2014-02-07 17:23:59 <wumpus> instead of many transactions you should use the 'sendmany' call
1295 2014-02-07 17:24:46 <kostagr33k> so fee should be much less in that fashion? I'm assuming there might be a script that can tell me what those fees would be in the sendmany call?
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1297 2014-02-07 17:25:30 <wumpus> and yes change addresses are created automatically, no need to worry about that
1298 2014-02-07 17:25:56 <aynstein> the exchanges are making a fortune!
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1300 2014-02-07 17:26:55 <aynstein> oops
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1302 2014-02-07 17:26:59 <wumpus> yes if you use sendmany you'll pay less fees in total, because it will all be in one transaction, instead of a lot of them that spend back to the wallet
1303 2014-02-07 17:27:02 <kostagr33k> ok Thanks wumpus.  I'm just being very cautious and saw a few people losing Change .. Is that only from people using the rawstransaction call and not specifying change Addr?
1304 2014-02-07 17:28:01 <wumpus> kostagr33k: either careless manipulation with individual keys (importprivkey/dumpprivkey) or making mistakes with rawtransaction
1305 2014-02-07 17:28:12 <wumpus> if you simply use the wallet as a wallet you'll never lose change
1306 2014-02-07 17:28:40 <kostagr33k> ok. just making sure that the send* calls are change safe then .. don't want to be one of those people posting a horror story ;p
1307 2014-02-07 17:28:44 <wumpus> (and make sure you make regular backups, of course)
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1309 2014-02-07 17:29:16 <kostagr33k> wumpus: I'm fine with the client it self. its the scripting part that I (and everyone) need to be safe and accurate about!
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1311 2014-02-07 17:29:53 <Luna> Announcement from my owner (TheLordOfTime): echo **TrekWeb Notice** Just a reminder, on Saturday, February 8, 2014, starting around 17:00 or 18:00 UTC, we will be bringing the ZNCs offline for a short while to conduct system updates and upgrades. We apologize for any inconvenience this brings. (on February 7, 2013)
1312 2014-02-07 17:30:06 Luna has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1313 2014-02-07 17:30:51 <teward> luna broke sorry
1314 2014-02-07 17:30:55 <teward> (she needs to be fixed)
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1325 2014-02-07 17:38:59 <cagedwisdom> question re: proof of work. The input to the hash function originates from the transaction correct. So exactly what elements of that data are in that input prior to the nonce value being added. I'm told it's not the complete msg.
1326 2014-02-07 17:40:02 <Luke-Jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
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1333 2014-02-07 17:49:07 <alex_fun> hello
1334 2014-02-07 17:49:44 <alex_fun> in main.cpp there is line txNew.vout[0].nValue = 50 * COIN; is it related to max amount of coins that can be sent in 1 transcation?
1335 2014-02-07 17:49:55 <maaku> no
1336 2014-02-07 17:51:28 <wumpus> alex_fun: no, it has to do with the mining reward
1337 2014-02-07 17:51:29 <alex_fun> so what its related to?
1338 2014-02-07 17:51:32 <alex_fun> oki
1339 2014-02-07 17:52:01 <wumpus> that's why the variable is called nSubsidy
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1342 2014-02-07 17:53:27 <alex_fun> I mean this one https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.8.6/src/main.cpp#L2765
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1347 2014-02-07 17:58:09 <wumpus> alex_fun: that's the genesis block; in master it's in chainparams.cpp
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1372 2014-02-07 18:29:15 <alex_fun> wumpus:  so one in genesis its simply just genesis only reward?
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1374 2014-02-07 18:29:21 <alex_fun> the unspendable coin
1375 2014-02-07 18:29:25 <alex_fun> or there is more to it?
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1377 2014-02-07 18:31:43 <wumpus> alex_fun: yes, it's building the genesis block there
1378 2014-02-07 18:32:00 <alex_fun> cool
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1391 2014-02-07 18:50:27 <jgarzik> cute
1392 2014-02-07 18:50:42 <jgarzik> several nodes on the network reporting their strSubVar as ".4"
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1410 2014-02-07 19:07:21 <andytoshi> this was posted on #rust: ruby devs talking about how to handle nested blocks ending with a pyramid of 'end's: https://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/2171485
1411 2014-02-07 19:07:28 <andytoshi> that entire thread is hilarious
1412 2014-02-07 19:07:43 <petertodd> haha
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1414 2014-02-07 19:08:14 <petertodd> when will people learn the One True Syntax style?
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1416 2014-02-07 19:09:08 <petertodd> e_e_e_e_end...combo breaker!
1417 2014-02-07 19:09:30 <TD> i thought it was a joke, then i saw the implementations ....
1418 2014-02-07 19:09:57 <andytoshi> if you scroll down somebody says 'I think the phrase "fold up" is more descriptive of what this is
1419 2014-02-07 19:09:57 <alex_fun> :))))
1420 2014-02-07 19:09:58 <andytoshi> attempting to do
1421 2014-02-07 19:10:06 <andytoshi> then he proposes fuuuuu for fold up :)
1422 2014-02-07 19:10:34 <petertodd> they missed a very important two letter suffix...
1423 2014-02-07 19:10:54 <ens> andytoshi: that is brilliant
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1447 2014-02-07 19:21:48 <alex_fun> petertodd: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Atlas-Shrugged-Movie-Poster-John-Galt-Fan-Made-304203104 :)
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1449 2014-02-07 19:22:52 <petertodd> alex_fun: ?
1450 2014-02-07 19:23:00 <alex_fun> lol
1451 2014-02-07 19:23:20 <alex_fun> its a slight joke :)
1452 2014-02-07 19:23:51 <petertodd> never read the book
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1454 2014-02-07 19:24:28 <alex_fun> I see, thats why :) bitcoin have alot in common with this book and not only
1455 2014-02-07 19:24:35 <jgarzik> Me either.  The Fountainhead, or bust.
1456 2014-02-07 19:24:43 <alex_fun> well cryptocoins i general
1457 2014-02-07 19:24:45 <alex_fun> *in
1458 2014-02-07 19:24:57 <alex_fun> I read Fountainhead too
1459 2014-02-07 19:24:59 <petertodd> I'll have to read the tvtropes.com summary one of these days :P
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1461 2014-02-07 19:25:47 <TD> i'd rather say that some subsections of the bitcoin community have a lot in common with that book
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1463 2014-02-07 19:27:23 <alex_fun> TD i meant cryptocoins code itself
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1466 2014-02-07 19:28:56 <alex_fun> coin based on 0 trust - and John Galt oath that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."  :P
1467 2014-02-07 19:30:10 <petertodd> alex_fun: I always find it funny how enthusiastic some of the more "liberal" - for want of a more specific term - parts of the bitcoin community are about bitcoin, a system that institutionalizes the idea of might is right
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1471 2014-02-07 19:31:34 <alex_fun> by system do u refer to btc or liberal ideas?
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1474 2014-02-07 19:31:59 <petertodd> alex_fun: bitcoin; pow mining is inherently about access to resources rather than one-vote-one-person democracy
1475 2014-02-07 19:32:14 <petertodd> alex_fun: not that we have an alternative of course...
1476 2014-02-07 19:32:36 <alex_fun> petertodd: and if u read atlas u see there is 0 democracy there
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1478 2014-02-07 19:33:11 <alex_fun> it in fact very well highlights fallacy of so called democracy )
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1481 2014-02-07 19:34:20 <alex_fun> BTC itself yes a bit centralised, yet if if you take Satoshi white paper and even 0.6 code u may see it was made simple and elegant, simple for many to understand and implement in any coin in any shape they like
1482 2014-02-07 19:34:38 <petertodd> ...and said coins are useless without money and resources
1483 2014-02-07 19:34:59 <alex_fun> a value is what is valued by the person
1484 2014-02-07 19:35:13 <petertodd> no, coins are insecure without sufficient hashing power to resist attack
1485 2014-02-07 19:36:00 <alex_fun> petertodd: depends i say soon someone may invent p2p consensus based checkpoints
1486 2014-02-07 19:36:07 <alex_fun> and much more ways to enjoy
1487 2014-02-07 19:36:38 <petertodd> that's been done, the pure form is called ripple
1488 2014-02-07 19:36:50 <alex_fun> yes also very interesting concept
1489 2014-02-07 19:38:08 <alex_fun> futher more people may choose to use coin where checkpoints are even directly centraised if such medium meets their aspirations and needs
1490 2014-02-07 19:38:13 <alex_fun> and some choose something else
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1493 2014-02-07 19:40:53 <alex_fun> just to say briefly some may enjoy living life as they are rather that just sum of rules called democracy :)
1494 2014-02-07 19:41:33 <ajoul> hello
1495 2014-02-07 19:41:50 <ajoul> I am trying to build or edit software or even use something that already exists
1496 2014-02-07 19:41:59 <ajoul> that will allow me to outsource my bitcoin pool to another pool
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1500 2014-02-07 19:44:20 <alex_fun> ajoul: what do u mean?
1501 2014-02-07 19:44:34 <alex_fun> u create webpage and then use someone else backend?
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1503 2014-02-07 19:44:53 <ajoul> @alex_fun somewhat, because my pool is small and it takes forever to finish a block chain
1504 2014-02-07 19:44:56 <ZjP> You pretend to have a bitcoin pool, take a fee, then outsource the work to another pool?
1505 2014-02-07 19:45:10 <ajoul> I want to outsource it to someone else until I get bigger user base
1506 2014-02-07 19:45:12 <petertodd> alex_fun: p2pool has built-in support for that you know
1507 2014-02-07 19:45:20 <alex_fun> i know
1508 2014-02-07 19:45:28 <ajoul> like eligious
1509 2014-02-07 19:45:42 <alex_fun> however as per john galt idea I allow other to go with their ideas full on
1510 2014-02-07 19:45:42 <alex_fun> :D
1511 2014-02-07 19:45:57 <alex_fun> he wants to do it such way, I may choose to help him freely
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1515 2014-02-07 19:47:19 <ajoul> alex_fun I am just trying to outsource it for free no fees until I get bigger user base
1516 2014-02-07 19:47:28 <ajoul> that is all
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1518 2014-02-07 19:47:54 <ajoul> but I am not trying to get p2p mining because I want the mining pool to be centralized (Sounds kinda wrong to say for bitcoin lol)
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1523 2014-02-07 19:51:43 <ajoul> @alex_fun?
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1531 2014-02-07 19:55:48 <alex_fun> ajoul:  :)
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1533 2014-02-07 19:56:34 <alex_fun> its fairly easy imo u simply send hash forward
1534 2014-02-07 19:56:49 <alex_fun> just pings etc make cause more oprhans
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1588 2014-02-07 20:38:34 <camponez> Hi, (using testnet) Why I cant see the balance of my multisig address on my bitcoin-qt client? I can see there is bitcoin there: https://www.biteasy.com/testnet/addresses/2MyMdJW7GpkULivugRMNqrVuaoqFenc7ioS
1589 2014-02-07 20:38:44 <camponez> but when I doo a listaccounts, shows 0
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1596 2014-02-07 20:40:12 <sipa> camponez: you need all keys
1597 2014-02-07 20:40:17 <Ontological> Is it possible to calculate when funds are no longer 'recently receieved' ie: Free tx fee?
1598 2014-02-07 20:40:23 <camponez> sipa, I have them
1599 2014-02-07 20:40:31 <camponez> sipa, multisig work, no problem
1600 2014-02-07 20:40:50 <camponez> But I cannot see the transaction or the balance
1601 2014-02-07 20:40:54 <camponez> on the client
1602 2014-02-07 20:41:12 <sipa> camponez: did you addmultisig it/
1603 2014-02-07 20:41:21 <camponez> yes
1604 2014-02-07 20:41:26 <sipa> hmm, stange
1605 2014-02-07 20:42:26 <sipa> Ontological: the only thing that matters is whether your transaction meets the free tx relay rules
1606 2014-02-07 20:43:14 <sipa> Ontological: which mostly depends on whether the bitcoin-days-destroyed of it is more than 4 per kilobyte
1607 2014-02-07 20:43:19 <Ontological> sipa: I'm having a hard time understanding these newer rules.  I used to be able to send myself 1.00 BTC and send it immediately.  Now, I've waited over an hour since rx'ing the 1.00BTC, and I still cannot send it for free.
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1609 2014-02-07 20:44:06 <Ontological> So, I'd like to learn how to make good estimates on availability, but will settle for someone saying "1.00 BTC will take 1.5 hours" or something, as well
1610 2014-02-07 20:44:13 <sipa> Ontological: that rule hasn't changed in years
1611 2014-02-07 20:44:20 <sipa> Ontological: 1 BTC per day, basically
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1613 2014-02-07 20:44:39 <sipa> for simple transactions
1614 2014-02-07 20:44:56 <sipa> sorry 1 BTC _times- 1 day
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1617 2014-02-07 20:45:49 <Ontological> 1 BTC per day?  You're saying it will take a complete day to be able to send this BTC for 0 fee?
1618 2014-02-07 20:45:56 <sipa> yes
1619 2014-02-07 20:46:14 <sipa> 2 BTC takes half a day, etc
1620 2014-02-07 20:46:41 <sipa> this rule is completely outdated, but the fees required by the network are usually higher than what is enforced anyway
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1630 2014-02-07 20:53:26 <Ontological> Thanks for the explanation, sipa.  I don't remember every having a problem with integral amounts of BTC
1631 2014-02-07 20:57:29 <camponez> is this the txid I should use for my next transaction? e4a750d7c2547352ced95bf1095d8c8e805bc640fce93e27061d0c201ebae2ac ==> https://www.biteasy.com/testnet/addresses/2MyMdJW7GpkULivugRMNqrVuaoqFenc7ioS
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1652 2014-02-07 21:26:16 <benkay> with regard to the network protocol, what does it mean for the command string to be null-padded?
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1678 2014-02-07 21:48:35 <Matt_von_Mises> Hi. Does anyone on here know some rough estimates of the server requirements for running a MPOS Stratum mining pool for a new crypto-currency?
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1714 2014-02-07 22:15:55 <evan82> Matt_von_Mises, I run one one an ec2 m1.med
1715 2014-02-07 22:16:50 <evan82> Matt_von_Mises, it's got 200 users at any given time and a load about .3 or so.
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1724 2014-02-07 22:22:37 <Matt_von_Mises> evan82: Thanks very much. I think I know what I'm going to try first. I think I will go with digital ocean's $20pm 2GB offering to start.
1725 2014-02-07 22:23:13 <evan82> Hmm, maybe I should do that too. I'm paying 45 or so
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1727 2014-02-07 22:23:51 <Matt_von_Mises> evan82: I've heard very great things about Digital Ocean and their prices are very good. Much simpler than Amazon too.
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1731 2014-02-07 22:25:54 <evan82> Matt_von_Mises, For amazon I use a lot of spot instances and AMIs for mining. But that's all it's really good for. This might be better for persistent stuff. AWS Spots are super cheap
1732 2014-02-07 22:26:36 <evan82> Matt_von_Mises, I can run 800+ cores for about $7/hr using spots
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1758 2014-02-07 22:45:52 <flound1129> what's the deal with coinbase.com transactions?
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1760 2014-02-07 22:45:56 <flound1129> are they given lower priority or something?
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