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   4 2014-02-25 00:04:02 <melvster> ah this is what was throwing me ... N doesnt even appear in the outputs in block explorer ... http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/8ba9c7bb6eb2ae87d3bef37e01dfb706cf95e220d78194c1d2a75485e9ebd55d
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   6 2014-02-25 00:04:34 <melvster> i guess i just take the array index
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   8 2014-02-25 00:07:44 <airbreather> todamoon: for the purposes of determining the "longest" chain, if I'm not mistaken, you count the number of blocks in the chain, but each block is weighted by difficulty.  Otherwise, if I'm not mistaken, someone could just trivially build a second chain of diff-1 blocks off of the genesis block with fudged timestamps so it looks like they were mined 10 minutes apart and then all of a sudden appear to have the longest chain.
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  10 2014-02-25 00:09:14 <airbreather> does that make sense and/or am I mistaken?
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  12 2014-02-25 00:09:29 <melvster> airbreather: yes ... you are correct ... it's not longest in length it's longest in difficulty
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  15 2014-02-25 00:10:16 <todamoon> ok
  16 2014-02-25 00:10:21 <melvster> you could build a longer chain in length if you wanted still anyway
  17 2014-02-25 00:10:27 <melvster> but clients would not accept it
  18 2014-02-25 00:10:30 <todamoon> well in that case my question would be, what would happen if it was also weighted for size?
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  20 2014-02-25 00:11:31 <todamoon> there is a bit of a disincentive for miners to mine large blocks at the moment due to the risk of getting orphaned since large blocks take longer to propagate
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  22 2014-02-25 00:12:04 <melvster> i wondered about that too ... but dont you get more fees for bigger blocks?
  23 2014-02-25 00:12:06 <todamoon> I was wondering if weighting for size could help as well
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  25 2014-02-25 00:12:14 <todamoon> but it would require a hard fork i guess
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  27 2014-02-25 00:12:41 <todamoon> yes melvster but since the reward dwarfs the fees, miners dont want to take the risk of losing the reward for more fees
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  29 2014-02-25 00:12:59 <todamoon> that's why many miners are configured for smaller blocks
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  39 2014-02-25 00:21:17 <super3> while it might not be the most practical solution, at least could linearly reducing fees over time be at least theoretically be a good idea?
  40 2014-02-25 00:21:57 <super3> so you can see mempool problems or txout attacks increase as you lower the fee before they become a problem
  41 2014-02-25 00:23:02 <sipa> super3: i think very soon the relay fees will be irrelevant
  42 2014-02-25 00:23:17 <sipa> as all that matters is a fee that will get your transaction confirmed
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  45 2014-02-25 00:23:58 <sipa> the 'floating fee' idea makes the relay fee depend on the mining fee, just to provide some dos protection against transaction that won't be mined anyway
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  50 2014-02-25 00:28:58 <super3> well i was thinking of it more as a stopgap measure before floating fees gets implemented
  51 2014-02-25 00:29:29 <super3> been reading through this pull
  52 2014-02-25 00:29:29 <super3> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3305
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  54 2014-02-25 00:31:25 <sipa> i don't see the point... if the floating-fee code currently imposes a higher fee already, it must mean that the current fee is for the majority of cases already too low
  55 2014-02-25 00:33:20 <super3> but if you can avoid that user psychology problems without much effort that would be the way to go
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  57 2014-02-25 00:35:29 <sipa> i think lowering the fee may do more damange than good
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  59 2014-02-25 00:35:35 <sipa> in terms of non-confirming transactions
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  62 2014-02-25 00:36:41 <super3> according what i've seen of Luke-Jr's node stats its takes quite a while for people to upgrade
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  64 2014-02-25 00:36:51 <sipa> yes
  65 2014-02-25 00:36:59 <Luke-Jr> super3: note at least some part of that is how often it polls nodes
  66 2014-02-25 00:37:14 <super3> Luke-Jr, how often?
  67 2014-02-25 00:37:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa would know better
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  72 2014-02-25 00:37:54 <super3> could old nodes(with higher fees) force new nodes(with lower fees) back a few blocks resulting in significant longer initial confirm times
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  99 2014-02-25 01:08:09 <HaltingState> sipa, can you add ability to encrypt point on curve with someone's public key and ability to decrypt it if you know private key; as functions in your library, for ECDH
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 283 2014-02-25 03:54:06 <Diablo-D3> lol
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 285 2014-02-25 03:54:15 <Diablo-D3> top 5 stories on hn, with a sixth further down are mtgox
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 296 2014-02-25 04:05:40 <Diablo-D3> top 6 are mtgox, 7th rising
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 474 2014-02-25 06:21:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Diablo-D3: why so many gox stories?
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 477 2014-02-25 06:25:01 <Urushiol> michagogo|cloud: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yvdcd/heres_a_summary_of_what_has_happened_over_the/
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 483 2014-02-25 06:27:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Holy crap.
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 493 2014-02-25 06:29:45 <Urushiol> yeah
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 501 2014-02-25 06:34:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...wow.
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 511 2014-02-25 06:39:50 <wumpus> whoa
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 516 2014-02-25 06:41:50 <wumpus> 750 000 coins 'lost'? as in, destroyed?
 517 2014-02-25 06:42:10 <copumpkin> wumpus: presumably stolen
 518 2014-02-25 06:42:16 <copumpkin> all speculation at this point though
 519 2014-02-25 06:42:38 <wumpus> right
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 527 2014-02-25 06:49:31 <Herodes> Do any of you devs actually think that 750k coins are stolen without MtGox noticing? Is Mark THAT incompetent?
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 532 2014-02-25 06:52:31 <paniaguaxx> devs should do a hard fork and give those coins back to gox users
 533 2014-02-25 06:52:33 <paniaguaxx> :p
 534 2014-02-25 06:53:03 <tonokip> michagogo|cloud, .
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 546 2014-02-25 06:59:56 <wumpus> Herodes: who can say ... 
 547 2014-02-25 07:01:01 <Apocalyptic> Herodes, the fact they plainly don't discard it says enough
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 558 2014-02-25 07:06:25 <edcba> hi !
 559 2014-02-25 07:06:41 <edcba> good news everyone : we just got rid of speculators :)
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 567 2014-02-25 07:10:54 <rfish> Anyone can comment on this address
 568 2014-02-25 07:10:56 <rfish> https://blockchain.info/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew
 569 2014-02-25 07:10:56 <jgarzik> edcba, heh
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 579 2014-02-25 07:16:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: any luck with gitian?
 580 2014-02-25 07:16:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Have you tried?)
 581 2014-02-25 07:16:55 <tonokip> i got part way and stopped :)
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 583 2014-02-25 07:17:33 <tonokip> i made the vm
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 586 2014-02-25 07:20:13 <tonokip> oh i need my inputs i guess
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 591 2014-02-25 07:22:54 <tonokip> doing that now :D
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 614 2014-02-25 07:54:05 <rebroad> what is the situation with mtgox? have they suffered a loss of bitcoins?
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 616 2014-02-25 07:55:00 <tonokip> seems the gitian stuff wants to build win64 binaries by default
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 622 2014-02-25 07:59:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: both.
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 624 2014-02-25 08:00:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But it should be easy to tweak
 625 2014-02-25 08:00:13 <dexX7> is there any pool that allows overwrite-by-fee (or what's it called..)?
 626 2014-02-25 08:00:33 <Luke-Jr> is there a good algorithm for building merkle branches in-place?
 627 2014-02-25 08:00:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Iirc there's a "for bits in 32 64" line in there
 628 2014-02-25 08:01:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you just take out the for block and set bits equal to 32, you'll get 32-bit only
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 630 2014-02-25 08:04:03 <tonokip> k
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 633 2014-02-25 08:05:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: oh, and also sanity-check the rest of it for things like the inputs that it calls for
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 636 2014-02-25 08:06:39 <tonokip> already started the time consuming process of making the 64bit vm
 637 2014-02-25 08:07:23 <Luke-Jr> I think everything is built in 64-bit VMs now either way
 638 2014-02-25 08:07:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: not linux32, if I'm not mistaken
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 640 2014-02-25 08:10:14 <wumpus> linux32 is built on a 32 bit VM
 641 2014-02-25 08:10:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why is that, btw?
 642 2014-02-25 08:10:33 <wumpus> because no one changed it?
 643 2014-02-25 08:10:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah.
 644 2014-02-25 08:10:46 <wumpus> usually the answer to 'why?' is 'no one bothered to do it'
 645 2014-02-25 08:10:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah
 646 2014-02-25 08:11:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But sometimes there's a reason
 647 2014-02-25 08:11:03 <wumpus> patches welcome and such
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 649 2014-02-25 08:11:25 <wumpus> well it's the easiest way to do it which reliably works
 650 2014-02-25 08:11:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How hard is it to compile 32 on 64, anyway?
 651 2014-02-25 08:11:31 <wumpus> seems a good reason to me
 652 2014-02-25 08:12:58 <wumpus> not hard to do (just pass -m32 and install the right :i386 packages), but will be a lot of testing work to make sure that the result still works on 32 bit systems, 64 bit systems, and edge cases
 653 2014-02-25 08:13:16 <uiop> more or less just "gcc -m32" (modulo having the 32bit libs/runtime/etc installed if you want to run it)
 654 2014-02-25 08:13:29 <uiop> wumpus beat me
 655 2014-02-25 08:13:54 <wumpus> myself I'm quite sick of gitian right now, just managed to get everything (including intermediate outputs) kind of deterministic, so everything that ruins that will make me pissed :)
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 659 2014-02-25 08:15:34 <wumpus> still, patches welcome, for the 0.10/1.0 release it'd be nice to build everything on one VM
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 664 2014-02-25 08:17:42 <uiop> how does the build (make -j<n>) scale parallel-ly ?
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 667 2014-02-25 08:18:04 <wumpus> the bitcoin build itself scales pretty well
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 669 2014-02-25 08:18:15 <wumpus> some of the inputs (like qt) scale very badly
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 671 2014-02-25 08:18:25 <uiop> (err, i.e. are there any long stretches of serial build deps during build?)
 672 2014-02-25 08:18:29 <uiop> cool
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 676 2014-02-25 08:19:02 <uiop> "make -j" is what multicore is made for! :)
 677 2014-02-25 08:19:08 <wumpus> the only annoyance with bitcoin is the leveldb build, sometimes I wish there was a 'make clean except leveldb' 
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 680 2014-02-25 08:20:05 <uiop> are there any insidious weird deps that make such a thing fragile, or has nobody just spent the time to conjur the correct make incantations?
 681 2014-02-25 08:20:14 <wumpus> (although the leveldb build is parallelized, building any of bitcoin's own objects waits for it)
 682 2014-02-25 08:20:49 <wumpus> well the reason is that leveldb has its own build system
 683 2014-02-25 08:21:04 <wumpus> that's also the reason that out-of-tree builds don't work at the moment, leveldb's build system doesn't support them
 684 2014-02-25 08:21:17 <uiop> oh.. ouch
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 686 2014-02-25 08:21:43 <uiop> out-of-tree builds are the "man-or-boy test" for build systems
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 688 2014-02-25 08:21:52 <wumpus> well, patches welcome
 689 2014-02-25 08:22:06 <uiop> i'll take a look
 690 2014-02-25 08:22:08 <wumpus> I expect it to be really ugly
 691 2014-02-25 08:23:00 <wumpus> cfields had a look at it and he's as close to an autotools/conf expert we have around here
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 700 2014-02-25 08:25:24 * uiop has had occasion to printed out the gcc Makefiles and read them with highlighters
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 702 2014-02-25 08:26:38 <wumpus> masochist :)
 703 2014-02-25 08:27:10 <uiop> oh yesh, the fun :)
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 740 2014-02-25 08:52:25 <melvster> is there any incentive for miners to add transactions with zero fees?
 741 2014-02-25 08:52:48 <melvster> other than making btc awesome ...
 742 2014-02-25 08:53:26 <Mqrius> melvster: if it's their own transactions :)
 743 2014-02-25 08:53:45 <melvster> ahhh
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 746 2014-02-25 08:54:43 <jgarzik> melvster, sure.  to encourage use of bitcoin.  to reduce the UTXO set size.  to encourage holders of old coins to circulate them through the system.
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 748 2014-02-25 08:55:07 <jgarzik> melvster, some mining pools of yesteryear were very loud in their desire to include all transactions, fee or no
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 766 2014-02-25 09:08:18 <melvster> jgarzik: awesome
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 797 2014-02-25 09:32:24 <shaileshg> hi, if you are running online wallet service.. how do you keep x% in hot wallet and (100-x%) in cold storage?
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 800 2014-02-25 09:33:52 <shaileshg> means if you are giving API to your merchants to accept payments.. then those would contain one particular public address.. in that case, do you keep transferring bitcoins from your receiving address to one whose' private key is in cold storage?
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 803 2014-02-25 09:34:55 <Belxjander> shaileshg: that means you need to be generating and storing "cold wallet" data by printing it out as QRcodes or some other mechanism
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 811 2014-02-25 09:39:42 <Luke-Jr> shaileshg: you know addresses are only to be used once ever, correct?
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 819 2014-02-25 09:43:15 <phillipsjk> Apparently Bitcoin does not listen for RPC connections on external interfaces. P2Pool assumes the RPC and Bitcoin P2P interface both use the same address. This is not the case if you explicitly tell bitcoind to listen to a specific address.
 820 2014-02-25 09:43:47 <wumpus> phillipsjk: you can make it listen on external interfaces by providing at least one -rpcallowip
 821 2014-02-25 09:44:58 <phillipsjk> This is a bit of sysadmin fail too because the machine is hosting a jail, but the Bitcoin related stuff is not in a jail.
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 824 2014-02-25 09:50:01 <phillipsjk> it does not appear to be listening on the external interface when I set the rpcallowip=interface_address.
 825 2014-02-25 09:50:12 <phillipsjk> root@casey:~ # netstat -a | grep 192.168.243.2:8332
 826 2014-02-25 09:50:12 <phillipsjk> root@casey:~ #
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 828 2014-02-25 09:51:22 <wumpus> phillipsjk:  I have a pull open for allowing RPC binding on any interface(s) you want, please help testing https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3695
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 830 2014-02-25 09:51:37 <phillipsjk> found it:
 831 2014-02-25 09:51:42 <phillipsjk> root@casey:~ # netstat -a | grep 8332
 832 2014-02-25 09:51:42 <phillipsjk> tcp46      0      0 *.8332                 *.*                    LISTEN
 833 2014-02-25 09:52:03 * phillipsjk tests
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 835 2014-02-25 09:53:12 <phillipsjk> nope, still does't work.
 836 2014-02-25 09:53:57 <uiop> wumpus: what modifications does the in-tree leveldb have to its ancestor in the leveldb mainline ?
 837 2014-02-25 09:54:24 <wumpus> phillipsjk: so to be clear with that patch you need to provide both an rpcallowip and rpcbind
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 841 2014-02-25 09:55:23 <wumpus> the logic is: unless -rpcallowip is specified, it binds to localhost
 842 2014-02-25 09:55:23 <wumpus> if one or more -rpcallowip and one or more -rpcbind is specified, bind to those specific addresses
 843 2014-02-25 09:55:23 <wumpus> if one or more -rpcallowip and no -rpcbind is specified, bind to all interfaces
 844 2014-02-25 09:55:26 <phillipsjk> I have not been able to compile bitcoind yet. Resorted to using a binary.
 845 2014-02-25 09:56:46 <wumpus> uiop: I think only the db file extension change for compatibility with 0.8, not entirely sure tho
 846 2014-02-25 09:57:14 <wumpus> but this: tcp46      0      0 *.8332                 *.*                    LISTEN   means it listens to all interfaces correct?
 847 2014-02-25 09:57:35 <wumpus> so looks like it works as intended
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 851 2014-02-25 09:59:18 <phillipsjk> not sure why P2Pool can't connect.
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 858 2014-02-25 10:02:07 <phillipsjk> I have the RPC password correct because it worked before I tried to specify the LAN interface. (but it could not connect to the P2P port on local host)
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 860 2014-02-25 10:03:11 <wumpus> do you specify the right rpcallowip?
 861 2014-02-25 10:03:51 <wumpus> you'll get a HTTP 403 error if not
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 863 2014-02-25 10:04:46 <phillipsjk> it was timing out.
 864 2014-02-25 10:05:19 <wumpus> that should not even be possible for something that runs locally, unless you have a firewall issue
 865 2014-02-25 10:06:01 <phillipsjk> well, I need sleep.
 866 2014-02-25 10:06:09 ForeignKeys has joined
 867 2014-02-25 10:06:10 <phillipsjk> Thanks for your help.
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 877 2014-02-25 10:12:25 <uiop> phillipsjk: are you on linux? if so you can do "sudo iptable-save" and look at your firewall rules
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 879 2014-02-25 10:13:00 <phillipsjk> no, FreeBSD
 880 2014-02-25 10:13:18 <uiop> ah, i'm of no use then
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 883 2014-02-25 10:13:48 <uiop> phillipsjk: well, actually do you have netcat(1) (nc(1) ?) or socat(1) ?
 884 2014-02-25 10:13:51 <phillipsjk> I know I have a choice of two differing firewall schemes...
 885 2014-02-25 10:14:09 <uiop> (socat is the absolute best tool, it's worth getting)
 886 2014-02-25 10:14:49 <uiop> socat TCP-L:4242 STDIO
 887 2014-02-25 10:15:12 <uiop> will listen on port 4242 and dump incoming to terminal, and write its stdin to the network
 888 2014-02-25 10:15:14 <phillipsjk> yup have nc
 889 2014-02-25 10:15:17 <uiop> nice
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 892 2014-02-25 10:15:35 <uiop> that's my tool of choice for seeing if anything is blocking stuff
 893 2014-02-25 10:15:48 <uiop> (although i don't know cli syntax on nc offhand)
 894 2014-02-25 10:15:54 <uiop> s/on/of/
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 896 2014-02-25 10:17:02 <phillipsjk> I tried using ping, that worked.
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 900 2014-02-25 10:18:48 <uiop> i can't help myself but socat is the best: forward unix socket over ssh:
 901 2014-02-25 10:18:52 <uiop> socat "TCP-LISTEN:6900,reuseaddr,fork" "EXEC:ssh me@example.com socat STDIO UNIX-CONNECT\:/tmp/.s.PGSQL.5432"
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 903 2014-02-25 10:19:21 <uiop> phillipsjk: try in one terminal "nc <listen on port blah> <dump to terminal>"
 904 2014-02-25 10:19:25 <uiop> and in another terminal
 905 2014-02-25 10:19:42 <uiop> "telnet <addr> <port>"
 906 2014-02-25 10:20:06 <uiop> (ping doesn't do what you want)
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 908 2014-02-25 10:20:40 <uiop> phillipsjk: well, that ping works *does* tell you something..
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 910 2014-02-25 10:20:57 <uiop> (but not much)
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 912 2014-02-25 10:21:40 <phillipsjk> I only have the one terminal.
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 915 2014-02-25 10:21:50 <uiop> nc .. &
 916 2014-02-25 10:21:57 <uiop> just background netcat
 917 2014-02-25 10:22:09 <_syslog> phillipsjk:  you can use nohub for background.
 918 2014-02-25 10:22:15 <uiop> or screen(1)
 919 2014-02-25 10:22:25 <uiop> but that's a whole nother rabbit hole
 920 2014-02-25 10:22:45 <uiop> _syslog: nohup you mean?
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 923 2014-02-25 10:23:02 <_syslog> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nohup
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 925 2014-02-25 10:23:21 <_syslog> if he was only 1 term, i doubt he has access to screen command.
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 928 2014-02-25 10:23:39 <_syslog> so there is only option ( imo )  nohub
 929 2014-02-25 10:23:42 <uiop> phillipsjk: all we're going for is to determine if a given addr:port is blocked by the firewall, without looking at the firewall rules themselves, right?
 930 2014-02-25 10:23:45 <phillipsjk> There is a BSD equivalent that I have not set up
 931 2014-02-25 10:24:02 <phillipsjk> But I still need sleep.
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 935 2014-02-25 10:25:25 <uiop> _syslog: although in this case, all we care about is if we can connect, so he might as well redirect netcat to a file, connect with telnet, type "asdfghjkl<CR>^D", kill netcat, check if file is nonempty
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 937 2014-02-25 10:25:48 <uiop> phillipsjk: yeah, it sounds like it :)
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 939 2014-02-25 10:28:20 <phillipsjk> The reason I have only the one terminal is I am actually using a serial terminal. Saved a lot of trouble-shooting when the Network interface locked up during actual use. (I was able to see watchdog timer messages)
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 979 2014-02-25 10:55:42 <sipa> ;;later tell HaltingState encryption using EC is usually done by encrypting with a separate algorithm (aes) using an ecdh-negotiated key; ecdh is already possible with my library
 980 2014-02-25 10:55:42 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 981 2014-02-25 10:57:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: would you object to an addition of that blind ECDSA to your library?  and an addition of schnorr signing with our curve? (perhaps both as ifdef optional compiles?)
 982 2014-02-25 10:58:26 cwil has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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 984 2014-02-25 11:00:18 <TD> what's the advantage of schnorr signatures over regular ecdsa again?
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 986 2014-02-25 11:00:40 <sipa> faster, more flexible, not malleable
 987 2014-02-25 11:00:48 <setra> hello, need some help compiling latest wallet...
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 990 2014-02-25 11:01:29 <gmaxwell> TD: efficient threshold signatures, solid security proofs, potentially faster (haven't benchmarked).
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 993 2014-02-25 11:01:37 <setra> what flags do I need to pass to set my compiled berkeleydb4.8 as used db
 994 2014-02-25 11:02:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: it's a bit ugly, as sign/validate use an inline call to a hash function
 995 2014-02-25 11:02:12 <TD> sounds good
 996 2014-02-25 11:02:12 <TD> efficient threshold signatures in particular sounds very good
 997 2014-02-25 11:02:12 <TD> no need for CHECKMULTISIG anymore
 998 2014-02-25 11:02:19 <gmaxwell> TD: e.g. you can do non-interactive N of N with some key and signature arithemetic, and N of M with a simple interactive protocol to establish the keys.
 999 2014-02-25 11:02:38 <gmaxwell> because N of M needs interaction there still might be applicablity for CHECKMULTISIG, but certantly less.
1000 2014-02-25 11:02:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: and i prefer not to depend on particular hash imolementations
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1003 2014-02-25 11:03:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: behold the power of function pointers?
1004 2014-02-25 11:03:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: bleh :)
1005 2014-02-25 11:03:38 <gmaxwell> yea normally in security sensitive code I like to avoid function pointers, because they're a vector for instruction pointer control.
1006 2014-02-25 11:03:45 <gmaxwell> But ::meh:: pick your poisons.
1007 2014-02-25 11:04:15 <TD> i've been pondering today how to do provable audits of an exchange, ideally with good privacy. it's one of those problems that feels like it _should_ be tractable if enough crypto is thrown at it. but it's hard to see how.
1008 2014-02-25 11:04:15 <TD> you'd need to be able to prove the amount of coin in a wallet, without revealing the keys, and then find a way to tie that to the exchanges databases
1009 2014-02-25 11:05:05 <gmaxwell> TD: oh it's not hard with enjoy grypto. You just use the protocol I described for this but do the values under a general ZKP system. Complexity should be similar to the zerocash stuff.
1010 2014-02-25 11:05:09 <gmaxwell> er crypto.
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1012 2014-02-25 11:06:02 <TD> yes i was hoping to avoid general ZKP given that no such framework is currently available publicly :) also it seems like interaction with the external databases would be tricky
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1014 2014-02-25 11:06:13 <TD> where did you describe your protocol?
1015 2014-02-25 11:06:18 <gmaxwell> you don't interact with external databases. :)
1016 2014-02-25 11:07:13 <gmaxwell> it recently got linked here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865
1017 2014-02-25 11:08:10 <gmaxwell> the non-private version basically works like certificate transparency. First show your coins. Then show a hash root for a tree over your balances (including the sum of the child values in each of the interior nodes).  When someone logs in you prove to them their balance is included in the published root.
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1019 2014-02-25 11:08:43 <gmaxwell> Down side is that it reveals the services total holdings, and leaks a little bit about the account value distribution.  Making the balance tree a huffman tree minimizes the leakage.
1020 2014-02-25 11:09:02 <gmaxwell> But you could do better by basically running this same protocol but encrypt the values and use a ZKP to prove the encrypted values add up.
1021 2014-02-25 11:09:40 <gmaxwell> (and do the proof of ownership of the coins under the ZKP so you're not identifying your coins anymore)
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1028 2014-02-25 11:12:15 <gmaxwell> in any case, there apparently a number of services currently in the process of implementing the protocol I described, and some other ones who have said they will not because they do not want to reveal their total holdings.
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1031 2014-02-25 11:13:17 <gmaxwell> I assume that if some do release such a thing market pressure will make someone go solve the problem. I bet the folks working on the ZKP stuff in zerocash would love a research grant for something with such nice crisply defined boundaries that uses tools they already have.
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1037 2014-02-25 11:18:16 <TD> yeah. it seems right up their alley
1038 2014-02-25 11:18:32 <TD> there's also cryptodb
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1040 2014-02-25 11:18:48 <TD> the problem is that to prove solvency, you have to not only prove you own the coins, but also that the coins you own match your outstanding liabilities
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1042 2014-02-25 11:19:13 <TD> which is usually going to be tracked in a sql db of some kind. cryptodb allows you to do queries over an encrypted database, modulo some very reasonable constraints, with good performance
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1045 2014-02-25 11:19:48 <TD> so i was thinking it might be possible to publish a cryptodb tracking users->balances, allow anyone to do a SELECT SUM() over the public db, whilst still restricting individual queries for individual users
1046 2014-02-25 11:19:50 <Persopolis> can this not be tackled from a different angle - e.g. the exchanges write their own solvency code (sums total holdings vs account records) - have an approved auditor, audit the code - nothing is revealed in terms of total holdings - just that the ratio is 1:1 or over? - the audited code can be hashed and signed
1047 2014-02-25 11:19:52 <TD> (but in a provable manner)
1048 2014-02-25 11:20:07 <TD> yes of course, one off audits by a trusted third party are the current status quo
1049 2014-02-25 11:20:21 <TD> the question is can we do better? publishing the audit code is fine but how do you know it was run properly?
1050 2014-02-25 11:20:26 <TD> ideally you'd have fully decentralised auditing
1051 2014-02-25 11:21:03 <TD> you could also do trusted computing in some way, run the entire DB in a remotely attestable domain, but TC has never worked well
1052 2014-02-25 11:21:08 <TD> i don't anticipate it will until intel release SGX
1053 2014-02-25 11:21:08 <Persopolis> TD: the key is signing with auditor key - the display of results can do check of authenticity
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1057 2014-02-25 11:23:24 <Persopolis> A nice solvency graph (only showing values as %s) and a code snippet at the bottom that refers to auditor site and which verifies the code as being the same one audited and approved
1058 2014-02-25 11:23:44 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: which services plan to implement your proposal?
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1062 2014-02-25 11:26:53 <Persopolis> TD: is what I'm suggesting complete bull or is that something workable?
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1065 2014-02-25 11:28:14 <TD> i didn't really understand your proposal, i'm afraid. when you say "verifies the code as being the same one audited and approved" what does that mean? you don't know what code the exchange was running
1066 2014-02-25 11:28:36 <swulf--> TD: don't you just move the problem to proving that the cryptodb is actually equal to the db used on your servers?
1067 2014-02-25 11:28:55 <TD> i guess a simple, easy first step would be to have a trusted third party auditor be given read access to the sql db and list of keys. then it can connect through a VPN to the exchange and run queries once a month or so, to check things add up, and then the auditor can just publish a text message saying "We checked on this date and alles in ordnung"
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1069 2014-02-25 11:29:15 <swulf--> Was it peter todd? that suggested the hash tree/merkle-like tree of balances?
1070 2014-02-25 11:29:32 <TD> swulf--: i think the exchange could selectively reveal keys to each individual user letting them check that their own database entry is correct
1071 2014-02-25 11:29:42 <TD> of course the vast majority wouldn't. but the ones that would are effectively unknowable by the exchange
1072 2014-02-25 11:29:46 <TD> so it'd be a statistical check
1073 2014-02-25 11:29:55 <swulf--> again, you'd have to trust they weren't lying -- ideally the user would request their key
1074 2014-02-25 11:30:05 <gmaxwell> swulf--: it was actually me that suggested it but apparently peter included it in a talk. :)
1075 2014-02-25 11:30:12 <swulf--> gmaxwell: my apologies ;)
1076 2014-02-25 11:30:45 <gmaxwell> TD: you can correct the majority by automating it .. I also in the original discussion that sparked this, suggested a wanky patch for that unfortunate property.
1077 2014-02-25 11:31:17 <gmaxwell> You simply make it the Official Rules that the bank can confiscate your coins if you don't check your balance in X time.  (and of course checking your balance gives you a signature so you can prove that you were checking or not)
1078 2014-02-25 11:31:21 <gmaxwell> :P
1079 2014-02-25 11:31:29 <swulf--> TD: while you're here, I wanted to get your thoughts about the micropayments channel in bitcoinj
1080 2014-02-25 11:31:57 antephialtic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1082 2014-02-25 11:32:30 <TD> sure
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1084 2014-02-25 11:33:04 <swulf--> Perhaps I don't have a deep understanding of all the nuances, but it seems to me like malleability opens a DoS vector with micropayments... could lead to lost funds
1085 2014-02-25 11:33:48 <TD> yes, it does
1086 2014-02-25 11:33:58 <swulf--> okay:)
1087 2014-02-25 11:34:00 <TD> this is a known issue with all contract protocols that include a refund
1088 2014-02-25 11:34:05 <swulf--> right
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1091 2014-02-25 11:34:55 <Persopolis> TD: Exchange writes code to do automatic audit, auditor checks the code and verifies it is doing the correct calculations etc the code is hashed and signed by the auditor, the results coming out of the code include signatures for the code and results which can be verified by the auditor's site as genuine  -- a bit more complicated than this - but this is the simplified version
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1093 2014-02-25 11:36:50 <TD> the current micropayment channel implementation has a couple of security issues: one is the malleability, another is that it reuses keys. once i finish HDW i'll go in and fix the latter. the former will require the v3 tx proposal to be implemented
1094 2014-02-25 11:36:50 <TD> once the work is done on the bitcoin core side, opting in to v3 transactions should be very easy
1095 2014-02-25 11:36:50 <TD> so for now it's best seen as a "preview of coming attractions", perhaps. also the refund-extortion attack is probably rather complicated to pull off in practice
1096 2014-02-25 11:36:50 <TD> for some apps the server often won't have any way to communicate the fact that it wants to extort the user, back to that user.
1097 2014-02-25 11:36:50 <TD> of course in a situation where someone is mutating every transaction they can, just to be a dick, that logic doesn't help you :)
1098 2014-02-25 11:37:41 <TD> "signatures for the code"
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1100 2014-02-25 11:37:47 <TD> again what do you mean? are you assuming trusted computing?
1101 2014-02-25 11:37:48 <swulf--> ahh, v3 transactions -- is this from the "dealing with malleability" thread on the ml?
1102 2014-02-25 11:37:51 <TD> yeah
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1109 2014-02-25 11:39:56 <Persopolis> TD: hash the code so that if it is tempered with / changed after audit it become apparent - many ways to achieve this
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1111 2014-02-25 11:41:31 <TD> no, again, you aren't understanding me
1112 2014-02-25 11:41:40 <TD> what proof do you have that the published code was the code actually run?
1113 2014-02-25 11:41:54 <TD> you say many ways to achieve this, but i think i know all the ways, and none of them are entirely practical right now
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1120 2014-02-25 11:44:10 <Persopolis> TD: the signed code can be held on auditor site, the code to execute can pull from auditor site, which inserts random key
1121 2014-02-25 11:44:46 <TD> so i write a 5-line shell script that extracts the key from the pulled code, runs by bogus "hide our insolvency" audit logic, and then signs the result with the extracted key
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1128 2014-02-25 11:47:34 <Persopolis> yes that's possible - you can work around that somewhat by obfuscating the source
1129 2014-02-25 11:48:34 <Persopolis> makes it far harder for automated scripting to pull the key
1130 2014-02-25 11:48:51 <TD> i have a lot of experience with code obfuscation. it can work better than people tend to imagine for some use cases. however, when large sums of money are involved, this would not be one of those use case
1131 2014-02-25 11:50:16 <Persopolis> TD: if there is a time to live for the pulled code, it would offer another layer of protection
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1137 2014-02-25 11:56:52 <Persopolis> Looking at this from the exchange's perspective, what ever solution is to be used, it needs to: a) not expose the exchange to another attack vector b) not expose confidential data c) not expose commercially sensitive data   - to me these sum up to the audit having to be run on their premises mostly
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1140 2014-02-25 11:57:58 <TD> right. i think ideal solutions are possible. they are just hard
1141 2014-02-25 11:58:00 <Persopolis> I don't think my idea would meet these either
1142 2014-02-25 11:58:09 <TD> we'll probably get there over time in stages
1143 2014-02-25 11:58:24 <upb> lol @ hashing source code
1144 2014-02-25 11:58:56 <upb> you could apply multiparty computation to do that kind of an audit without revealing exact data to the auditor
1145 2014-02-25 12:00:49 <Persopolis> not that unusual upb to sign code - i used to work as a mainframe OS developer and we had a secure version for MoD use - used that kind of technique
1146 2014-02-25 12:02:06 <upb> sure its not unusual to sign code but it wouldnt work in the context youre proposing to use it
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1151 2014-02-25 12:03:36 <Persopolis> perhaps because I didn't type an end to end solution while thinking on my feet... all depends on how the code is loaded and executed
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1154 2014-02-25 12:04:44 <Persopolis> quite easy to shoot most ideas down - but discussion is what gets you to the answer - even if you start with a stupid idea ;D
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1160 2014-02-25 12:11:02 <Persopolis> what I do know is that if I was running my own exchange, I would in no way agree to have my db be quieried from outside
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1162 2014-02-25 12:11:36 <TD> Persopolis: sure, no problem
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1172 2014-02-25 12:14:28 <Persopolis> nvm...
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1197 2014-02-25 12:35:24 <edcba> why not just give the address of your cold wallet ?
1198 2014-02-25 12:36:21 <KuDeTa> how would they prove ownership without signing?
1199 2014-02-25 12:36:25 askmike has joined
1200 2014-02-25 12:36:53 <KuDeTa> tux apparently claimed that was too complicated as all the parts of the key were split up in separate places.
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1202 2014-02-25 12:37:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: still around?
1203 2014-02-25 12:37:56 djcoin_ has joined
1204 2014-02-25 12:38:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: run ./configure --help
1205 2014-02-25 12:38:06 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
1206 2014-02-25 12:38:08 discobean has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1207 2014-02-25 12:38:08 <edcba> it should be as "hard" as spending them
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1209 2014-02-25 12:38:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Look for --with-something
1210 2014-02-25 12:38:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You can look at contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win.yml for an example
1211 2014-02-25 12:39:00 <edcba> anyway mtgox didn't inspire me confiance as soon as they did allow black pool stuff or dunno how it is called
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1219 2014-02-25 12:42:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Interesting side effect of the mtgox problem...
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1222 2014-02-25 12:43:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Wiki accounts can no longer pay for edit rights
1223 2014-02-25 12:43:29 <setra> michagogo|cloud, yes still here. yes tried to run ./configure --help but it doesn't help me
1224 2014-02-25 12:43:34 <Ymgve> Is there a way to check the blockchain for transactions that have been modified thru tx malleability?
1225 2014-02-25 12:43:45 <chichov> how is the merkle tree computed if the number of nodes is odd, eg 5?
1226 2014-02-25 12:43:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: did you find the relevant option?
1227 2014-02-25 12:43:53 drayah has joined
1228 2014-02-25 12:44:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chichov: each node that is missing a pair is hashed together
1229 2014-02-25 12:44:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|With itself
1230 2014-02-25 12:44:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So if you have items 1,2,3,4,5
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1232 2014-02-25 12:45:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|a=H(12), b=H(34), c=H(55)
1233 2014-02-25 12:45:22 <setra> michagogo|cloud, I don't know what to look for, I know I need to tell it to use the location /usr/local/BerkeleyDB4.8 for the includes and the library, but ... failed untill now
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1235 2014-02-25 12:45:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A=H(ab), B=H(cc)
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1237 2014-02-25 12:46:01 <chichov> michagogo|cloud: thanks
1238 2014-02-25 12:46:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: in the output of configure --help, look for options starting with "--with"
1239 2014-02-25 12:46:18 <chichov> wasn't absolutely clear in the wiki, as an example with 3 nodes was given
1240 2014-02-25 12:46:32 <chichov> so that it is trivial to fill it up to 2^n
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1242 2014-02-25 12:46:59 <_syslog> _syslog	midnightmagic: last night after you kicked me you was saying people i'm a scammer is this right ? i don't know you said or not, but if you said that, this proofs for me, you are an asshole. i'm scammed no one, i don't even talk about real coins, i always talk about testnet coins.  fuck the last night i never talked about mainnet or realcoins. i always talked about testnet or testnetcoins. I'm waiting your answer
1243 2014-02-25 12:47:10 <setra> michagogo|cloud, yes I found that but I would not prefer to not use any other DB than 4.8. so I rather need an option which defines the location for library and header of DB4.8
1244 2014-02-25 12:47:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: yes, one of the --with* options is that
1245 2014-02-25 12:47:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Give me a sec, I'll find it
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1247 2014-02-25 12:48:03 <chichov> is this more or less standard procedure for all Merkle trees or is this specific for bitcoin?
1248 2014-02-25 12:48:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chichov: the former, I believe
1249 2014-02-25 12:48:26 <setra> michagogo|cloud, sorry I thought you mean --with-incompatible-db
1250 2014-02-25 12:48:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra:
1251 2014-02-25 12:48:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|nope
1252 2014-02-25 12:48:53 <chichov> michagogo|cloud: thank you for your help
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1255 2014-02-25 12:49:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Np
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1258 2014-02-25 12:51:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: hm, looks like what I was thinking of is only for qt and boost
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1261 2014-02-25 12:52:52 <setra> michagogo|cloud, jup... how do you define a custom location of a library and headers in terms of a configure option
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1263 2014-02-25 12:53:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: see if you can figure it out from contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win.yml
1264 2014-02-25 12:53:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It might be the CPPFLAGS
1265 2014-02-25 12:54:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or perhaps the LDFLAGS
1266 2014-02-25 12:54:26 <setra> yes but how does the syntax look like..../configure CPPFLAGS='/usr/local/BerkeleyDB4.8/libs' ?
1267 2014-02-25 12:54:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I don't actually know what those options are, I'm not familiar with how the build system works
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1271 2014-02-25 12:55:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'd recommend looking at the configure line in contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win.yml
1272 2014-02-25 12:56:15 <setra> michagogo|cloud, Sorry to bother you with that build thingi... ok I will take a look after lunch... thx maybe you stillaround?
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1274 2014-02-25 12:57:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|One sec, I'll take a look in a minute when I get to my computer
1275 2014-02-25 12:58:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Okay, looks like the full line is ./configure --bindir=$OUTDIR --prefix=$STAGING --host=$HOST --with-qt-plug
1276 2014-02-25 12:58:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|indir=$STAGING/plugins  --with-qt-incdir=$STAGING/include --with-qt-bindir=$STAG
1277 2014-02-25 12:58:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ING/host/bin --with-boost=$STAGING --disable-maintainer-mode --with-protoc-bindi
1278 2014-02-25 12:58:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|r=$STAGING/host/bin --disable-dependency-tracking CPPFLAGS="-I$STAGING/include $
1279 2014-02-25 12:58:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|{OPTFLAGS}" LDFLAGS="-L$STAGING/lib ${OPTFLAGS}" CXXFLAGS="-frandom-seed=bitcoin ${OPTFLAGS}"
1280 2014-02-25 12:58:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gah
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1282 2014-02-25 12:59:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That was supposed to be one line
1283 2014-02-25 13:00:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think the relevant parts might be CPPFLAGS="-I$STAGING/include"
1284 2014-02-25 13:00:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|and LDFLAGS="-L$STAGING/lib"
1285 2014-02-25 13:00:26 <_syslog> michagogo|cloud:  in a fair world you should get kicked .
1286 2014-02-25 13:00:31 <_syslog> *sorry
1287 2014-02-25 13:00:48 <lnovy> http://youtu.be/29EgnYOYqpk :DD
1288 2014-02-25 13:02:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Erm, what is that?
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1292 2014-02-25 13:02:37 <lnovy> just another rant :)
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1294 2014-02-25 13:02:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Some clip from a movie with redubbed subtitles or something?
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1296 2014-02-25 13:02:57 <lnovy> michagogo|cloud: you don't know the concept?
1297 2014-02-25 13:03:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|No...
1298 2014-02-25 13:03:09 <lnovy> michagogo|cloud: there's like millon of those similiar
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1300 2014-02-25 13:04:03 <lnovy> michagogo|cloud: meta: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/downfall-hitler-reacts
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1308 2014-02-25 13:08:35 <t7> even my dad knows the downfall meme
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1311 2014-02-25 13:09:27 <abrkn> watching it now...
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1315 2014-02-25 13:11:52 <sipa> downfall?
1316 2014-02-25 13:11:59 <sipa> is that the name of the movie in english?
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1318 2014-02-25 13:12:15 <abrkn> sipa: the downfall
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1320 2014-02-25 13:12:48 <abrkn> it's really good
1321 2014-02-25 13:12:57 <sipa> i know the movie
1322 2014-02-25 13:13:04 <sipa> just under the name "der untergang"
1323 2014-02-25 13:13:09 <abrkn> yep
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1378 2014-02-25 13:56:21 <phillipsjk> uiop: the timeout was caused by 192.169.243.2 being the wrong address, not a fire-wall.
1379 2014-02-25 13:56:37 <aynstein> Luke-Jr: is there a way to identify a miners device by the share it submits (I mean does it submit any hardware unique info), if so, does it persist through the bfg proxy ?
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1381 2014-02-25 14:01:09 <orweinberger> I'm sure you've seen this: https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/881.pdf - Did any core dev respond to it? Is this something viable for future versions?
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1390 2014-02-25 14:05:39 <setra> michagogo|cloud, sorry... cant figure it out from this gitan-win.yml file, don't even know what to look for
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1392 2014-02-25 14:06:46 <uiop> phillipsjk: heh
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1409 2014-02-25 14:15:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|setra: 14:59:48 <michagogo|cloud> I think the relevant parts might be CPPFLAGS="-I$STAGING/include" and LDFLAGS="-L$STAGING/lib"
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1424 2014-02-25 14:24:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Heh, has anyone seen mtgox's homepage?
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1428 2014-02-25 14:24:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|<html>	<head>		<title>MtGox.com</title>	</head>	<body>		<!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->	</body> </html>
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1430 2014-02-25 14:24:34 Plas is now known as Plasmastar
1431 2014-02-25 14:24:50 <Persopolis> oh dear - I got blank page and didn't look at the source
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1434 2014-02-25 14:25:34 <xeroc> michagogo|cloud: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yvndw/mtgoxcom_page_source_says_put_announce_for_mtgox/
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1437 2014-02-25 14:26:26 <Persopolis> so it's prety cert that they are goners
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1456 2014-02-25 14:38:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|uh
1457 2014-02-25 14:38:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I just refreshed and a bunch of js showed up...
1458 2014-02-25 14:38:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/WD0QiY1b
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1470 2014-02-25 14:49:24 <Persopolis> do you use chrome?  you can see the JS in the header now
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1474 2014-02-25 14:52:41 <Persopolis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akamai_Technologies
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1510 2014-02-25 15:16:13 <Phoebus> Hey guys, anyone know any DL or torrent for the testnet blockchain? Cheers.
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1515 2014-02-25 15:17:48 <_syslog> Phoebus: testnet blockchain is not huge like mainnet
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1517 2014-02-25 15:18:28 <_syslog> if you connected testnet it will be download entire blockchain in 1 hour ( my net download speed  was 100 kbps )
1518 2014-02-25 15:18:51 <Phoebus> _syslog, cheers :)
1519 2014-02-25 15:19:12 <_syslog> ;)
1520 2014-02-25 15:19:19 <Phoebus> Time to work on something else meanwhile.
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1522 2014-02-25 15:19:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Phoebus: yeah, it's much smaller
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1524 2014-02-25 15:19:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Not much of a need
1525 2014-02-25 15:20:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And if it's being really slow, just restart the software for a different syncnode
1526 2014-02-25 15:20:43 <_syslog> 85.153.13.35 it has full testnet blockchain.
1527 2014-02-25 15:20:53 <Phoebus> cheers michagogo|cloud, it was blocked essentially so wasn't downloading.
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1529 2014-02-25 15:21:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Phoebus: what was blocked?
1530 2014-02-25 15:21:43 <Phoebus> nvm it's ok.
1531 2014-02-25 15:21:58 <Phoebus> _syslog, that's not public, as in requires user/pass
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1538 2014-02-25 15:27:03 <_syslog> what are you doin ?
1539 2014-02-25 15:27:03 <_syslog> you should execute your client with -addnode
1540 2014-02-25 15:27:03 <_syslog> you should not connect that ip :)
1541 2014-02-25 15:27:03 <_syslog> with http
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1545 2014-02-25 15:29:28 <jgarzik> Phoebus, I don't know of a testnet torrent
1546 2014-02-25 15:29:32 <jgarzik> Phoebus, I should set one up
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1562 2014-02-25 15:40:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: why?
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1567 2014-02-25 15:41:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's only one or two blk*.dats, I think
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1570 2014-02-25 15:42:04 <jgarzik> michagogo|cloud, it's nice to have it around, in case testnet is being an odd duck
1571 2014-02-25 15:42:23 <_syslog> michagogo|cloud: 3
1572 2014-02-25 15:42:25 <jgarzik> michagogo|cloud, sometimes I have trouble finding a node, or that node is slow, even though they are sending tiny blocks
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1635 2014-02-25 16:16:06 <wumpus> what about a regtest torrent? Gavin's tests take ages to make a block chain :-)
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1639 2014-02-25 16:16:49 <gavinandresen> wumpus: they should cooperate and create a cache/ directory so you only have to generate it once
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1641 2014-02-25 16:17:11 <gavinandresen> e.g. cache/node1 cache/node2 etc, created if they don't exist, just copied and re-used if they do
1642 2014-02-25 16:17:21 <wumpus> gavinandresen: good idea
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1645 2014-02-25 16:19:07 <gavinandresen> wumpus: By the way, I'm working on a pull so the OSX Bitcoin-Qt requires a 64-bit machine and OSX 10.6 or later.  Part of prepping for a 0.9 release....
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1654 2014-02-25 16:21:17 <orweinberger> Is there a reason that change addresses are 'hidden' in the client ui?
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1656 2014-02-25 16:21:57 <wumpus> gavinandresen: don't know about MacOSX but at least the gitian builds for linux and windows are deterministic now, except for a nit with protobuf win, but that's only the intermediate output
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1658 2014-02-25 16:22:11 <wumpus> orweinberger: because you shouldn't be concerned with them
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1660 2014-02-25 16:22:45 <denisx> gavinandresen: yeah!
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1670 2014-02-25 16:24:46 <orweinberger> wumpus, ok I understand. When a user reaches the 100 addresses limit, does bitcoind create another 100  addresses or just one by one? Also are there any plans on alerting the user that he passed the 100 mark? (since he might need to re-backup his wallet)
1671 2014-02-25 16:24:50 <wumpus> I even implemented a checkbox once to show change addresses in the receiving addresses list, but I can think of no good that can come of it
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1673 2014-02-25 16:25:35 <sipa> orweinberger: it creates new ones all the time
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1675 2014-02-25 16:25:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|orweinberger: each time you take a new address from the pool a new one is randomly generated
1676 2014-02-25 16:25:56 <orweinberger> oh i understand now.
1677 2014-02-25 16:26:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And added to the end
1678 2014-02-25 16:26:23 <orweinberger> Are there any plans on improving this somehow to avoid having backups obsolete in some fashion?
1679 2014-02-25 16:26:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think you can also use an RPC like "refillkeypool 5000"
1680 2014-02-25 16:26:30 <wumpus> orweinberger: there was a pull to make keypool refill manual, imo that would have been more useful as you'd know when to make a backup, but consensus was against it
1681 2014-02-25 16:26:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|To generate 5,000 addressed
1682 2014-02-25 16:26:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Addresses*
1683 2014-02-25 16:26:52 <orweinberger> that's nice
1684 2014-02-25 16:27:33 <wumpus> orweinberger: anyhow, best would be to switch to deterministic key generation
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1688 2014-02-25 16:27:59 <orweinberger> I thought bitcoinqt is not a deterministic wallet
1689 2014-02-25 16:28:13 <wumpus> right, it isn't at the moment
1690 2014-02-25 16:28:19 <wumpus> hence the 'would be'
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1692 2014-02-25 16:28:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The only problem with deterministic wallets is that key management breaks them
1693 2014-02-25 16:28:57 <orweinberger> Sorry I thought you meant that users should move to deterministic key generation, as if it was an option on bitcoind or something
1694 2014-02-25 16:29:32 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: you mean when you import private keys?
1695 2014-02-25 16:29:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A solution would be to not import keys, just sweep them
1696 2014-02-25 16:29:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: yeah
1697 2014-02-25 16:29:56 <wumpus> well, then disable importing of keys, it sucks anyway
1698 2014-02-25 16:30:37 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: how does it break that?
1699 2014-02-25 16:30:51 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: you just need to make sure to backup after every new imported key
1700 2014-02-25 16:30:59 <sipa> whether that's just a key, or an entire chain
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1702 2014-02-25 16:31:10 <wumpus> it doesn't break anything you have the same old problem back
1703 2014-02-25 16:31:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: right
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1705 2014-02-25 16:31:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But the point is that you lose the main benefit of determinism (backup once forever)
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1707 2014-02-25 16:32:23 <sipa> you still don't have the "my backup automatically invalidates itself"
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1709 2014-02-25 16:32:34 <anton000> ey
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1711 2014-02-25 16:32:38 <anton000> was wondering..
1712 2014-02-25 16:32:49 <wumpus> sipa: right
1713 2014-02-25 16:32:49 <anton000> whats current size of blockchain + full tx index?
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1715 2014-02-25 16:33:04 <sipa> anton000: you mean with -txindex ?
1716 2014-02-25 16:33:10 <dhill> 17G
1717 2014-02-25 16:33:10 <anton000> yup!
1718 2014-02-25 16:33:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|anton000: 17-20 GB, I think
1719 2014-02-25 16:33:18 <sipa> close to 20 probably
1720 2014-02-25 16:33:22 <anton000> cool thnx! :)
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1722 2014-02-25 16:33:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(17 last I checked, no idea when that was)
1723 2014-02-25 16:33:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|When I get home I'll check
1724 2014-02-25 16:34:12 <anton000> oh bt... have a protoype php implementation of bip0032 @ https://github.com/anton000/HDWalletPHP
1725 2014-02-25 16:34:18 <anton000> let me know wat u think
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1793 2014-02-25 17:14:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Uh, anyone know what this might be? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145386.msg5270902#msg5270902
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1796 2014-02-25 17:15:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, and my blocks/ folder is currently 18.3 GB (19,740,254,208 bytes)'
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1798 2014-02-25 17:16:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, I'm about 20 blocks behind
1799 2014-02-25 17:16:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So a bit more
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1867 2014-02-25 17:44:44 <abrkn> stopping bitcoind with ctrl-c in windows causes bsod. anyone else seen this?
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1872 2014-02-25 17:46:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|abrkn: o_O
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1875 2014-02-25 17:47:17 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|test
1876 2014-02-25 17:47:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|s
1877 2014-02-25 17:47:34 <abrkn> michagogo|cloud: more specifically i run it from powershell
1878 2014-02-25 17:47:36 <super3> abrkn, what does the bsod error message say?
1879 2014-02-25 17:47:59 <abrkn> super3: irq less than equal, i think. ndis.sys
1880 2014-02-25 17:48:04 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|waits for bitcoind to start up
1881 2014-02-25 17:48:16 <abrkn> michagogo|cloud: i'd say it's like 50/50 for me
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1883 2014-02-25 17:48:39 <abrkn> tried to terminate using rpc stop and that seemed to work fine
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1885 2014-02-25 17:49:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bah
1886 2014-02-25 17:49:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I thought it was taking a long time to start up
1887 2014-02-25 17:49:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I was forgetting to pass -testnet to bitcoin-cli
1888 2014-02-25 17:49:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Nope, no bsod
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1892 2014-02-25 17:50:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Something about a failed assertion, then something about the application asking the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way
1893 2014-02-25 17:50:46 <abrkn> that's what happens for me too, but it's frequently followed by a bsod
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1895 2014-02-25 17:51:00 <abrkn> which is weird, because i havent seeny any bsods in windows 8 before
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1898 2014-02-25 17:51:17 <Mopman> is it always in ndis?
1899 2014-02-25 17:51:22 <abrkn> yeah
1900 2014-02-25 17:51:29 <Mopman> do you know which network card/driver?
1901 2014-02-25 17:51:33 <abrkn> i'm pretty sure that's nvidia display?
1902 2014-02-25 17:51:39 <Mopman> nah, wireless network
1903 2014-02-25 17:51:58 <Mopman> possibly wired too? but definitely wireless
1904 2014-02-25 17:52:51 <abrkn> broadcom 802.11n is what im using
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1910 2014-02-25 17:55:00 <abrkn> cant really find anything useful in event viewer
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1946 2014-02-25 18:08:00 <chichov> are the results of eg hashes only represented in little-endian notation but the calculations are done in big-endian?
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1959 2014-02-25 18:08:27 <chichov> I've computed the merkle root of the coinbase transaction in the genesis block and as it seems only the final result has to be represented in little-endian notation
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1967 2014-02-25 18:09:52 <chichov> thus I wonder, when all computations are made using big-endian, why should the result be represented in little-endian?
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1974 2014-02-25 18:13:38 <Persopolis> Bitcoin suffers from a conition I call schizoendian
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2011 2014-02-25 18:22:32 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I'm upgrading my OSX build environment to try to build against Qt5.2.1, and need help/advice...
2012 2014-02-25 18:22:32 <gavinandresen> wumpus (or anybody who might be familiar with Qt development on OSX): I configured by setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to $HOME/Qt5.2.1/5.2.1/clang_64/lib/pkgconfig
2013 2014-02-25 18:22:32 <gavinandresen> … and ran configure with --with-gui=qt5
2014 2014-02-25 18:22:32 <gavinandresen> BUT:  it looks like my (downloaded straight from qt-project.org) Qt5 installation puts the headers in QtCore.framework/Versions/5/Headers/  and the Makefiles seem to be looking for them in .../clang_64/include
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2023 2014-02-25 18:23:25 <gavinandresen> chichov: hashes are run over arrays of bytes, where there is no endian.
2024 2014-02-25 18:23:25 <gavinandresen> chichov: if you're asking how are various data structures packed into arrays of bytes before being hashed… well, then it depends....
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2075 2014-02-25 18:44:58 <chichov> gavinandresen: thanks for your help
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2093 2014-02-25 18:51:40 <skinnkavaj> http://i.imgur.com/2b8Fec3.jpg
2094 2014-02-25 18:51:50 * skinnkavaj facepalm
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2158 2014-02-25 19:21:46 <venzen> on the topic of compiling the QT client - is there any resource that explains how to build it with static libraries for portability between different linux systems?
2159 2014-02-25 19:22:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|skinnkavaj: ...wth
2160 2014-02-25 19:22:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What is that?
2161 2014-02-25 19:22:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: There's the gitian descriptor
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2164 2014-02-25 19:23:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You could see how https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-linux.yml does it
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2191 2014-02-25 19:36:29 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: thanks for that
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2223 2014-02-25 19:53:36 <devrandom> mmmm.... schnorrrrr
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2225 2014-02-25 19:54:18 <devrandom> I guess that would also save space in the blockchain for large multisigs
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2311 2014-02-25 20:47:50 <naout> brb
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2317 2014-02-25 20:50:44 <Persopolis> if i'm building and installing boost1.37, should i set the destination to /usr/lib/boost_1_37_0
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2324 2014-02-25 20:52:21 <Persopolis> or does it not matter where they get installed
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2327 2014-02-25 20:54:02 <Persopolis> ignore above - wrong chan
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2334 2014-02-25 20:57:42 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so, does magicaltux really believe hes not going to go to prison?
2335 2014-02-25 20:58:09 <c0rw1n> frenchman in japan wanted by the US?
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2337 2014-02-25 20:58:15 <c0rw1n> like, good fucking luck
2338 2014-02-25 20:58:24 <Diablo-D3> c0rw1n: well, hes now an international criminal
2339 2014-02-25 20:58:39 <c0rw1n> still an epic jurisdictional clusterfuck
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2344 2014-02-25 20:59:53 <Diablo-D3> when its over $400m, it stops being a jurisdictional clusterfuck and turns into a war on who gets to try him first
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2348 2014-02-25 21:01:42 <dhill> has he been charged with a crime?
2349 2014-02-25 21:01:56 <jakov> charged? hes not even arrested yet
2350 2014-02-25 21:02:02 <dhill> right
2351 2014-02-25 21:02:19 <jakov> he paid back all the japanese withdrawals i heard
2352 2014-02-25 21:02:38 <Diablo-D3> jakov: key word being yet
2353 2014-02-25 21:02:49 <dhill> why do you think he will be arrested
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2355 2014-02-25 21:02:52 <jakov> he could just disappear
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2357 2014-02-25 21:02:58 <Diablo-D3> I doubt he can now
2358 2014-02-25 21:03:04 <jakov> why?
2359 2014-02-25 21:03:05 <Diablo-D3> the japanese government most likely is watching him
2360 2014-02-25 21:03:15 <jakov> yeah he left it too late
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2362 2014-02-25 21:03:20 <jakov> should've left the country 2 weeks ago
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2364 2014-02-25 21:03:27 <jakov> when was he last seen by those protestors in japan?
2365 2014-02-25 21:03:40 <Diablo-D3> he'll most likely be arrested if he tries to leave
2366 2014-02-25 21:03:50 <jakov> he could be in panama now
2367 2014-02-25 21:03:57 <jakov> with a paper wallet and a suitcase
2368 2014-02-25 21:04:03 <jakov> start a new life
2369 2014-02-25 21:04:20 <dhill> arrested for?
2370 2014-02-25 21:04:26 <Diablo-D3> except we already know where his coints are
2371 2014-02-25 21:04:28 <Diablo-D3> *coins
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2373 2014-02-25 21:04:51 <Diablo-D3> https://blockchain.info/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew
2374 2014-02-25 21:04:58 <Diablo-D3> someone I trust has already claimed that address is his
2375 2014-02-25 21:05:10 <Diablo-D3> all we need is a blacklist, and then his coins are worthless.
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2377 2014-02-25 21:05:25 <jakov> fungiblity
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2379 2014-02-25 21:05:48 <Diablo-D3> so I don't think hes very smart
2380 2014-02-25 21:05:55 <dhill> so what will he be arrested for?
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2382 2014-02-25 21:06:01 <roybadami> Slightly OT but: if I want my Bitcoin-QT (which is behind a non-UPNP NAT firewall) to be accessible to other nodes, is it just a matter of permitting/forwarding 8333/tcp ?
2383 2014-02-25 21:06:03 <c0rw1n> i'd like to know too
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2385 2014-02-25 21:06:10 <Diablo-D3> dhill: whatever they charge him with
2386 2014-02-25 21:06:13 <Diablo-D3> which is most likely anything
2387 2014-02-25 21:06:17 <Diablo-D3> roybadami: yes
2388 2014-02-25 21:06:30 <Diablo-D3> *everything
2389 2014-02-25 21:06:31 <c0rw1n> they'll invent charges if necesary, and then find someting else to pin on him
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2391 2014-02-25 21:06:42 <roybadami> Diablo-D3: Thanks
2392 2014-02-25 21:06:51 <Diablo-D3> c0rw1n: yup
2393 2014-02-25 21:06:56 <Diablo-D3> they'll throw the book at him and see what sticks
2394 2014-02-25 21:07:04 <Diablo-D3> he stole over $400m USD
2395 2014-02-25 21:07:10 <Diablo-D3> they're not going to let him just walk away
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2397 2014-02-25 21:07:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Erm, is this not more a discussion for #bitcoin?
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2399 2014-02-25 21:07:48 <sipa> yes please
2400 2014-02-25 21:07:55 <c0rw1n> or #bitcoin-hidden
2401 2014-02-25 21:07:58 <c0rw1n> yeah
2402 2014-02-25 21:08:07 <sipa> #bitcoin-drama
2403 2014-02-25 21:08:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|roybadami: Yes, if you can get a connection on port 8333, that's all you need
2404 2014-02-25 21:08:23 <Diablo-D3>  well, this started out as me asking gmaxwell a question
2405 2014-02-25 21:08:24 <Diablo-D3> but w/e
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2412 2014-02-25 21:11:16 <roybadami> So the P2P network will just discover my public IP address and I will become a node that can serve requests to other nodes?
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2414 2014-02-25 21:11:39 <Diablo-D3> yes
2415 2014-02-25 21:11:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|roybadami: Well, you'll be sending addr messages to your peers
2416 2014-02-25 21:11:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(in fact, you already do)
2417 2014-02-25 21:12:01 <sipa> roybadami: you can serve requests from others, even if you're the one connecting to them
2418 2014-02-25 21:12:14 <sipa> roybadami: but typically, downloading happens mostly from nodes you're connecting to
2419 2014-02-25 21:12:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And also, connections are bidirectional
2420 2014-02-25 21:12:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bah, sipa beat me to it
2421 2014-02-25 21:12:35 <sipa> !hi5 michagogo|cloud
2422 2014-02-25 21:12:35 <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
2423 2014-02-25 21:13:21 <roybadami> Yeah, I suppose what I really meant to ask was, would other nodes potentially discover me....
2424 2014-02-25 21:13:25 <roybadami> Thanks all
2425 2014-02-25 21:13:35 <sipa> roybadami: yes, after a while
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2429 2014-02-25 21:14:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|roybadami: Yeah, it helps if your node is running for a long time
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2432 2014-02-25 21:16:16 * roybadami needs to stick bitcoind on his colo really..... Anyone know if bitcoind builds/runs without issue on FreeBSD?
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2451 2014-02-25 21:30:23 <leofidus-ger> is there a downside to setting the keypool in bitcoind much larger?
2452 2014-02-25 21:30:38 <leofidus-ger> like 10.000 or 100.000?
2453 2014-02-25 21:30:45 pierreatwork has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2455 2014-02-25 21:32:25 <sipa> memory usage, startup time
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2457 2014-02-25 21:32:38 <sipa> performance is not very affected by many keys
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2459 2014-02-25 21:34:19 <midnightmagic> startup time is pretty brutal with a large wallet.
2460 2014-02-25 21:35:34 <leofidus-ger> so as long as I'm willing to wait a few minutes for it to start I'm fine?
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2463 2014-02-25 21:36:18 <skinnkavaj> Do I have to take a new backup of the wallet.dat after 100 transactions?
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2468 2014-02-25 21:37:22 <leofidus-ger> If all those transactions generated change, yes
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2521 2014-02-25 22:16:44 <ProfMac> Bytecoin, possibly an April Fool's prank, is an exact clone of the reference client.  It is subject to attack by aggressive mining at low difficulty then abandonment at high difficulty.  This means that bitcoin has that same technical vulnerability.  Is the discussion of approaches to this vulnerability off-topic, or on-topic?
2522 2014-02-25 22:17:20 <sipa> sounds on-topic
2523 2014-02-25 22:17:33 <ProfMac> Thank you.
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2526 2014-02-25 22:18:47 <gavinandresen> Wait… sounds off-topic to me.  Difficulty attacks on alt-coins are not interesting here.
2527 2014-02-25 22:19:33 <ProfMac> lol.  Thank you, too.
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2529 2014-02-25 22:19:54 <centrx> Are you sure it is on-topic to even discuss whether this is off-topic ?
2530 2014-02-25 22:20:42 <sipa> they're on topic in so far as they might be relevant to bitcoin, i'd say (though i have a strong suspicion that in this case that is not the case)
2531 2014-02-25 22:20:57 <joelsbeard> where is a good place to read up on scripting bitcoin?
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2533 2014-02-25 22:21:20 <dexX7> lesson 1: most op codes are disabled
2534 2014-02-25 22:21:53 <joelsbeard> No support yet? Or just not built
2535 2014-02-25 22:22:14 <joelsbeard> I mean, or purposely baned
2536 2014-02-25 22:22:56 <joelsbeard> *banned
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2544 2014-02-25 22:26:04 <ProfMac> It's hard for me to imagine 90% of the network hash-power being turned off suddenly, so there is a split between "technical vulnerability" and "immediate importance."  On the other hand, a year ago it was hard for me to imagine Mt. Gox going dark.
2545 2014-02-25 22:27:25 Seven has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2547 2014-02-25 22:28:04 <gmaxwell> that kind of thing is a symptom of a worse failure.
2548 2014-02-25 22:28:27 [EddyF] is now known as Guest2776
2549 2014-02-25 22:28:41 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, is someone claiming to have found the address the gox coins went to?
2550 2014-02-25 22:28:41 <ProfMac> yes ...
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2552 2014-02-25 22:29:03 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: not with any particular credibility, someone found an address that had recieved around 760k btc.
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2554 2014-02-25 22:29:37 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh yeah i see
2555 2014-02-25 22:29:38 <aquarat> what's the address?
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2557 2014-02-25 22:29:44 <phantomcircuit> this looks like a bitcoin mining operation
2558 2014-02-25 22:29:45 <joelsbeard> Over a long period of time
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2560 2014-02-25 22:29:59 <phantomcircuit> like the change from one or something
2561 2014-02-25 22:30:05 <phantomcircuit> maybe cold storage for another exchange
2562 2014-02-25 22:30:42 <phantomcircuit> bitcoins in bitcoins out
2563 2014-02-25 22:30:46 <joelsbeard> I don't think they are THAT stupid to just put all the coins in one place
2564 2014-02-25 22:30:54 <phantomcircuit> yeah it looks like someones hot wallet
2565 2014-02-25 22:31:06 <Apocalyptic> <sipa> performance is not very affected by many keys // is the performance of -rescan operation affected by many keys ?
2566 2014-02-25 22:31:48 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, yes but it's not significant
2567 2014-02-25 22:32:16 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, as long as your wallet and all of it's txs fit into memory everything is fine
2568 2014-02-25 22:32:19 <joelsbeard> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor
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2571 2014-02-25 22:33:37 <phantomcircuit> (note that the in memory structures are much more compact than wallet.dat on disk)
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2573 2014-02-25 22:34:13 <Apocalyptic> I just noticed, looking at the virtual memory allocated by bitcoind
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2579 2014-02-25 22:36:29 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, iirc the per key performance cost of -rescan essentially comes down to a single memcmp per key/txout pair
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2581 2014-02-25 22:36:44 <Apocalyptic> thanks phantomcircuit
2582 2014-02-25 22:36:47 <phantomcircuit> even a fairly shit computer can do millions of those per second
2583 2014-02-25 22:36:52 <Apocalyptic> indeed
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2608 2014-02-25 22:45:05 <sipa> phantomcircuit: eh, no, walking the keymap takes log2(n) accesses to memory
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2619 2014-02-25 22:49:59 <phantomcircuit> sipa, really? i thought it was basically just a straight comparison
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2630 2014-02-25 22:59:24 <super3> jgarzik, sent you mail on "storj"
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2698 2014-02-25 23:51:42 actuallygoodnews has joined
2699 2014-02-25 23:52:03 <actuallygoodnews> any chance someone has a record of every transaction ever, including those that didn't make it to the blockchain?
2700 2014-02-25 23:52:20 <actuallygoodnews> would be interesting to analyze in light of the alleged malleability related theft
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2709 2014-02-25 23:57:54 <phantomcircuit> actuallygoodnews, i doubt it
2710 2014-02-25 23:58:12 <phantomcircuit> i once tried to save metadata on message propogation and ended up with 20GB+/day
2711 2014-02-25 23:58:21 <phantomcircuit> highly compressed and deduplicated
2712 2014-02-25 23:58:26 <actuallygoodnews> ouch
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