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  20 2014-02-26 00:09:47 <actuallygoodnews> would have helped to figure out if it's reasonable 700K+ bitcoins were stolen or not
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  22 2014-02-26 00:11:59 <Inception> Anyone has a list of recommended commits against the tx malleability stuff? We want to apply these to altcoins.
  23 2014-02-26 00:12:22 <Inception> With bitcoin its easy: build from master
  24 2014-02-26 00:12:33 phantomspark_ has joined
  25 2014-02-26 00:12:49 <Inception> As i understand, the master includes normalized txid and nospendzeroconfchange?
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  31 2014-02-26 00:14:52 <lianj> phantomcircuit: i doubt they all went missing just by malleability over a long time
  32 2014-02-26 00:15:11 drayah has joined
  33 2014-02-26 00:16:28 <Luke-Jr> Inception: scamcoins are off-topic here, and real altcoins should have a competent developer who can figure it out
  34 2014-02-26 00:16:29 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  35 2014-02-26 00:16:53 <Luke-Jr> (real altcoins are also off-topic btw)
  36 2014-02-26 00:17:12 <gmaxwell> Inception: no, master does not include normalized txid. And generall I don't think I'd recommend it. Expirence is showing it results in some dangerous misunderstandings.
  37 2014-02-26 00:17:39 use_zfs_yo has joined
  38 2014-02-26 00:17:42 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: hold up
  39 2014-02-26 00:17:45 <gmaxwell> maybe it would turn out useful someplace enough to offset the risks it creates, I'm unsure, I was hoping to see its usefulness demonstrated but it seems like that won't happen.
  40 2014-02-26 00:17:45 <Diablo-D3> _real_ altcoins?
  41 2014-02-26 00:17:47 <Diablo-D3> no such thing
  42 2014-02-26 00:17:53 <Diablo-D3> thats a myth
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  45 2014-02-26 00:18:17 <sipa> such alt, wow
  46 2014-02-26 00:19:17 <Luke-Jr> I have some very alty chips.
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  55 2014-02-26 00:25:19 <tlrobinson_> if anyone is bored i'd love feedback on this post before i publish it http://blog.tlrobinson.net/preview/b2KOXThCsaCiM21XS4J/
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  57 2014-02-26 00:25:58 <skinnkavaj> http://paulmillr.com/posts/the-story-of-telegram/
  58 2014-02-26 00:26:05 <skinnkavaj> The idea behind the app was a messenger for an average user, for all people, which is secure and fast. Not some another thing no one uses besides a few nerds (like BitMessage).
  59 2014-02-26 00:26:33 Ursium has joined
  60 2014-02-26 00:26:41 <Inception> skinnkavaj: www.tox.im
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  65 2014-02-26 00:30:28 <CodeShark> tlrobinson: Some people are pointing to Gox’s failure as a reason Bitcoin needs more governmental regulation. While I don’t disagree entirely, I believe cryptography and peer-to-peer consensus protocols can eventually replace the need for certain types of regulation entirely.
  66 2014-02-26 00:30:56 <CodeShark> that was a quote
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  68 2014-02-26 00:31:19 <CodeShark> tlrobinson, you don't disagree entirely with Gox being the reason Bitcoin needs more governmental regulation?
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  70 2014-02-26 00:32:19 <CodeShark> not sure I'd choose those words
  71 2014-02-26 00:33:26 <gjs278> I disagree entirely
  72 2014-02-26 00:33:40 <gjs278> nobody can stop me from sending coins to japanese magic card exchanges
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  74 2014-02-26 00:33:49 <CodeShark> lol
  75 2014-02-26 00:33:56 <tlrobinson_> heh i figured that would be a point of contention, yeah
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  78 2014-02-26 00:35:18 <alex_fun> return dPriority > COIN * 144 / 250; Large (in bytes) low-priority (new, small-coin) transactions     // need a fee. well what is 144 and 250 mean in this line?
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  80 2014-02-26 00:36:29 <alex_fun> a bit sleepy and yet to figure out :)
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  87 2014-02-26 00:39:31 <GMP> a network of colorcoin to USD/EUR gateways could be much more scaleable/robust/secure than centralized exchange, not to mention zero fee
  88 2014-02-26 00:39:54 <alex_fun> GMP ripple allows for it
  89 2014-02-26 00:40:04 <alex_fun> as to zero fee imo its fantasy :D
  90 2014-02-26 00:40:14 <alex_fun> who would change all the time for 0 fee? :D
  91 2014-02-26 00:40:16 <alex_fun> u?
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  94 2014-02-26 00:41:56 <GMP> about 10% block space is zero fee transactions, atomic colorcoin exchange with SIGHASH_SINGLE bids are small, some of them could be free
  95 2014-02-26 00:42:28 <wallet42> does anyone remember how deep the reorg was during chainfork last year?
  96 2014-02-26 00:42:32 <alex_fun> GMP again who will change into usd and back for free?
  97 2014-02-26 00:42:33 <CodeShark> colorcoins atop bitcoin will not scale
  98 2014-02-26 00:42:35 <alex_fun> as u offering it?
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 101 2014-02-26 00:43:03 <alex_fun> wallet42: what chain fork? simply fix bugs
 102 2014-02-26 00:43:10 <alex_fun> and forks are not a big issue :D
 103 2014-02-26 00:43:21 <CodeShark> there was a chain fork march 11 of last year
 104 2014-02-26 00:43:29 <CodeShark> I think it was something like 25 blocks?
 105 2014-02-26 00:43:31 <CodeShark> or less
 106 2014-02-26 00:43:32 <CodeShark> 12
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 108 2014-02-26 00:43:37 <alex_fun> caused by?
 109 2014-02-26 00:43:38 <CodeShark> don't remember
 110 2014-02-26 00:43:46 <CodeShark> caused by a bug :p
 111 2014-02-26 00:43:56 <alex_fun> exactly
 112 2014-02-26 00:43:56 <alex_fun> :D
 113 2014-02-26 00:43:56 eatpaleo has joined
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 116 2014-02-26 00:44:16 agricocb has joined
 117 2014-02-26 00:44:28 <CodeShark> so bugs CAN be a big deal if they cause different versions of the software to disagree on valid chains!
 118 2014-02-26 00:44:58 <CodeShark> the fork was resolved in favor of the buggy version because it was more widely deployed at the time
 119 2014-02-26 00:45:06 <rdponticelli> It was because clients with bdb behaved differently than new leveldb, wasn't it?
 120 2014-02-26 00:45:11 b4epoche has joined
 121 2014-02-26 00:45:14 <CodeShark> yes
 122 2014-02-26 00:45:16 <sipa> CodeShark: not "more widely deployed"
 123 2014-02-26 00:45:18 <wallet42> alex_fun: a bug in a library, bdb vs leveldb
 124 2014-02-26 00:45:19 <wallet42> yes
 125 2014-02-26 00:45:30 <wallet42> okay 25 thx
 126 2014-02-26 00:45:31 <CodeShark> well, not by the most powerful miners, sipa
 127 2014-02-26 00:45:31 <sipa> CodeShark: it was the only option, as the old version was compatible with the new and not the other way around
 128 2014-02-26 00:45:37 <CodeShark> ok
 129 2014-02-26 00:45:47 <CodeShark> that's true
 130 2014-02-26 00:45:59 <wallet42> usual reorgs are just 1 or mayby 2 blocks right?
 131 2014-02-26 00:46:01 <sipa> (and some powerful mining pools offered to switch back)
 132 2014-02-26 00:46:02 <sipa> wallet42: yes
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 134 2014-02-26 00:47:08 <wallet42> hm. lets continue mining on the old chain… diff is still low there ;)
 135 2014-02-26 00:47:17 <alex_fun> sipa  return dPriority > COIN * 144 / 250; Large (in bytes) low-priority (new, small-coin) transactions     // need a fee. well what is 144 and 250 mean in this line?
 136 2014-02-26 00:47:20 <alex_fun> any ideas? :D
 137 2014-02-26 00:48:11 <sipa> 144 = one day worth of blocks
 138 2014-02-26 00:48:13 eatpaleo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 139 2014-02-26 00:48:17 <sipa> 250 = typical size of a transaction
 140 2014-02-26 00:48:23 <alex_fun> oki ty
 141 2014-02-26 00:48:33 <sipa> meaning a typical size transaction needs to wait one day if it spends 1 BTC
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 144 2014-02-26 00:48:47 <alex_fun> 1 day is kinda long?
 145 2014-02-26 00:49:02 <midnightmagic> sipa: Is there some convenient way of calculating tx size given hex data output from createrawtransaction?
 146 2014-02-26 00:49:06 <wallet42> minee will be 1000 satoshi in 0.9
 147 2014-02-26 00:49:08 <wallet42> minfee
 148 2014-02-26 00:49:22 <midnightmagic> I've been dividing by two.. but it seems that's not the real size.
 149 2014-02-26 00:49:23 <sipa> midnightmagic: ... divide by two?
 150 2014-02-26 00:49:27 <midnightmagic> :-/
 151 2014-02-26 00:49:52 <wallet42> or multiply by 0.5
 152 2014-02-26 00:49:59 <alex_fun> 1000 satoshi thats alot
 153 2014-02-26 00:50:22 <alex_fun> but miners get extra
 154 2014-02-26 00:50:28 <alex_fun> :)
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 156 2014-02-26 00:50:37 <wallet42> yeah like .5 $US cents
 157 2014-02-26 00:51:00 <alex_fun> it can be fixed at 2 cents, here is my 2 cents lol
 158 2014-02-26 00:51:43 <sipa> wallet42: that's the *relay* fee
 159 2014-02-26 00:51:56 <CodeShark> not sure there's a good solution for the relay fee because relayers don't get any of it :)
 160 2014-02-26 00:51:58 <sipa> it may end up having little to do with the fee you need to get it mined
 161 2014-02-26 00:52:12 <sipa> CodeShark: it's just dos protection, unfortunately
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 163 2014-02-26 00:52:19 <CodeShark> the economic model for relay fee is already broken
 164 2014-02-26 00:52:38 <wallet42> makes sense, first lower the relay fee then lower the minerfee
 165 2014-02-26 00:52:50 <wallet42> other way around would really work i guess
 166 2014-02-26 00:52:58 <wallet42> wouldn'y
 167 2014-02-26 00:52:58 <CodeShark> miners can set whatever fee they like - the economics there are sound
 168 2014-02-26 00:53:03 <alex_fun> sipa btw how come 0.1.0 got way less lines of code. was it working? I tried to start exe wont work on win 7 :D
 169 2014-02-26 00:53:04 <sipa> wallet42: there is no "minerfee"
 170 2014-02-26 00:53:08 <CodeShark> but the relay fee cannot be determined by economics
 171 2014-02-26 00:53:24 <CodeShark> unfortunately
 172 2014-02-26 00:53:48 sebicas has joined
 173 2014-02-26 00:53:51 <sipa> wallet42: there's only a relay fee and a transaction creation fee
 174 2014-02-26 00:53:52 <alex_fun> perhaps I can recompile exe,  but seems some files qt files are missing in 0.1.0
 175 2014-02-26 00:54:05 <sipa> alex_fun: until 0.4.x, there was no qt
 176 2014-02-26 00:54:15 <wallet42> well miners can decide what txes they mine ? so if 90% of them dont like 1000 satoshi it may take 130 block to get confirmation
 177 2014-02-26 00:54:37 <sipa> wallet42: miners likely will just pick the highest fee they see
 178 2014-02-26 00:54:37 <alex_fun> miners imo can charge min 1 usd
 179 2014-02-26 00:54:43 bderber has joined
 180 2014-02-26 00:54:46 <sipa> and let transactions compute
 181 2014-02-26 00:54:48 Neozonz has joined
 182 2014-02-26 00:54:48 <alex_fun> then its nice , dices going to be like haha
 183 2014-02-26 00:54:50 <sipa> *compete
 184 2014-02-26 00:55:13 <wallet42> has 0.9 the relay double spending txes?
 185 2014-02-26 00:55:17 <alex_fun> sipa more like pools choose as they control most hash
 186 2014-02-26 00:55:24 <wallet42> i remember there was a proposal
 187 2014-02-26 00:55:30 <alex_fun> so pools can raise fees as they see fit and pocket them too right?
 188 2014-02-26 00:55:36 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 189 2014-02-26 00:55:39 <wallet42> but i didnt follow the development
 190 2014-02-26 00:55:48 <sipa> wallet42: no
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 197 2014-02-26 01:00:01 <neotap> ;;ticker
 198 2014-02-26 01:00:03 <gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 543.91, Best ask: 544.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 543.91, 24 hour volume: 111582.17304400, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 545.8, 24 hour vwap: 480.910341557
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 210 2014-02-26 01:04:34 <joelsbeard> ;;ticker
 211 2014-02-26 01:04:36 <gribble> Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 545.99, Best ask: 546.57, Bid-ask spread: 0.58000, Last trade: 543.5, 24 hour volume: 111968.33438987, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 547.75, 24 hour vwap: 481.3583311
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 215 2014-02-26 01:07:04 <Persopolis> begining to think debian was a poor choice for btc dev :)
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 218 2014-02-26 01:07:39 <justanotheruser> Okay. So I have a concern with bitcoin 0.9 (and Bitcoin in general). With the new small fees, it will cost about $3k/day to DoS the network. This seems like a good way to dump and pump
 219 2014-02-26 01:07:52 <Luke-Jr> Persopolis: at least it isn't Fedora
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 225 2014-02-26 01:09:27 <Persopolis> think i'll burn my VM and start from scratch tomorrow - any recomendations for a distro with least pain on the dependencies
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 231 2014-02-26 01:12:22 <CBit> justanotheruser: the DoS becomes useless if you pay a slightly higher fee though. Right?
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 237 2014-02-26 01:14:37 <justanotheruser> CBit: Good point
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 239 2014-02-26 01:16:31 <sipa> i don't understand?
 240 2014-02-26 01:16:42 assetcreator has quit ()
 241 2014-02-26 01:16:57 <gmaxwell> he thinks the dos is merely out compeating free/priority txn.
 242 2014-02-26 01:16:58 psilver has quit (Client Quit)
 243 2014-02-26 01:17:06 <gmaxwell> I don't have any concern about that.
 244 2014-02-26 01:17:10 <gmaxwell> or at least not much of any.
 245 2014-02-26 01:17:20 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: have you considered making a BIP for https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac? or is it too unrelated to Bitcoin
 246 2014-02-26 01:17:46 macboz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 247 2014-02-26 01:17:54 <gmaxwell> I hadn't considered it.
 248 2014-02-26 01:18:13 <gmaxwell> I thought it too unrelated to bitcoin itself, but perhaps it would make sense.
 249 2014-02-26 01:18:23 <actuallygoodnews> would be really good IMO... as soon as one shared wallet implements it, I believe others will follow
 250 2014-02-26 01:18:47 <actuallygoodnews> of course, it doesn't completely prevent insolvency but it makes it a lot harder
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 254 2014-02-26 01:20:03 <actuallygoodnews> I am considering making an example implementation in node.js or ruby but not sure I have the crypto chops to pull it off
 255 2014-02-26 01:21:16 <skinnkavaj> Can anyone explain why is Cryptsy such a mess? IS it because of the progamming language chosen?
 256 2014-02-26 01:22:05 <actuallygoodnews> skinnkavaj: programming language is rarely an issue.. more likely the developers are an issue
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 263 2014-02-26 01:23:22 <tonokip> is it possible to have gitian only use 1 core?
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 265 2014-02-26 01:23:56 <sipa> tonokip: -j1, iirc
 266 2014-02-26 01:24:19 <tonokip> that works with gbuild ?
 267 2014-02-26 01:24:39 <tonokip> i guess i can check that
 268 2014-02-26 01:25:59 <Persopolis> what distro do you guys use for your dev work
 269 2014-02-26 01:26:16 <Persopolis> on btc
 270 2014-02-26 01:27:01 <tonokip> sipa, ty
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 272 2014-02-26 01:27:55 <dhill> so many getaddr.bitnodes.io connections
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 289 2014-02-26 01:32:50 <GMP> "<CodeShark> colorcoins atop bitcoin will not scale" do you mean that for SVP size of the proof bound by depth of the tree? full nodes can handle colorcoin utxo set similar way as they handle it utxo now... if you are a trader, you can afford full node, if not - withdraw to gateway directly
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 291 2014-02-26 01:33:15 <CodeShark> yes, I'm talking about SPV
 292 2014-02-26 01:33:50 <CodeShark> also, there's the issue of potential frontrunning miners
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 294 2014-02-26 01:34:28 <CodeShark> it just seems like a very poor solution
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 296 2014-02-26 01:34:36 <CodeShark> bitcoin wasn't designed for this kind of thing
 297 2014-02-26 01:34:42 <CodeShark> why are we trying to force it to do these things?
 298 2014-02-26 01:34:50 <CodeShark> if we want to do these things, let's take a step back and design it properly
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 302 2014-02-26 01:36:03 <CodeShark> bitcoin demonstrates that a decentralized timestamping mechanism is possible if you add an intrinsic currency as a financial incentive
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 305 2014-02-26 01:36:20 <CodeShark> now let's apply this idea to networks that are actually designed to do the really cool stuff we're talking about!
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 307 2014-02-26 01:37:48 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: save the "possible" for after you can short Bitcoin in major non-bitcoin markets for a while…
 308 2014-02-26 01:39:19 <GMP> overhead in SIGHASH_SINGLE transactions (bids) is small/close to zero, cross-chain echange is probably more expensive
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 312 2014-02-26 01:40:15 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: let's also separate bitcoin the currency from bitcoin the protocol :)
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 314 2014-02-26 01:41:32 <CodeShark> if the objective of the currency is decentralized generation at an exponentially decreasing rate, that could be enforced on other networks, too :)
 315 2014-02-26 01:42:27 <CodeShark> anyhow, perhaps this is wizards talk :)
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 317 2014-02-26 01:42:59 <GMP> etherium contracts can accept bitcoin SVP-proof as a payment, but thats one-way street
 318 2014-02-26 01:43:47 <CodeShark> yes, unfortunately
 319 2014-02-26 01:43:55 meLon has quit (Client Quit)
 320 2014-02-26 01:44:12 <GMP> (just in case "actually designed to do the really cool stuff" means etherium)
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 324 2014-02-26 01:44:59 <CodeShark> it could be any future network - ethereum could be a next generation network, but surely even ethereum will be obsolete one day :)
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 329 2014-02-26 01:49:15 <CodeShark> perhaps we should have #bitcoin-miracle-workers
 330 2014-02-26 01:49:35 <CodeShark> because this is unlikely to happen in #bitcoin-wizards either
 331 2014-02-26 01:50:05 rvhnt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 332 2014-02-26 01:50:17 <dhill> 20:45:49 2014-02-25 [INF] BMGR: Processed 1 block in the last 3m38.27s (231 transactions, height 287832, 2014-02-25 20:45:13 -0500 EST)
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 340 2014-02-26 01:55:51 <wallet42> hm http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ relaunched but they got rid of historic data?
 341 2014-02-26 01:57:04 <super3> love to get some feedback on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3747, or maybe some ACKS
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 344 2014-02-26 02:03:07 <gmaxwell> ah good, they're no longer claming total BS data.
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 362 2014-02-26 02:24:29 <ProfMac> Is anyone going to the Texas bitcoin conference in Austin just before SXSW?
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 365 2014-02-26 02:26:01 <benten> ProfMac, I will
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 367 2014-02-26 02:26:37 <ProfMac> I'm going down to Austin in a day or two.  I only now learned about the conference.
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 374 2014-02-26 02:36:53 <Luke-Jr> ProfMac: /me
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 380 2014-02-26 02:39:27 <ProfMac> I'm deciding whether to stay in town for the conference.
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 382 2014-02-26 02:40:17 <andytoshi> ProfMac: i'll be around town
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 384 2014-02-26 02:40:42 <ProfMac> andytoshi, are you based in Austin?
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 386 2014-02-26 02:40:56 <andytoshi> ProfMac: yup, at least during the school year
 387 2014-02-26 02:41:07 <Tiraspol> hm
 388 2014-02-26 02:41:44 <ProfMac> I'm going to Austin in the next few days.  I'm based near north 290 & I-35
 389 2014-02-26 02:42:30 <super3> its supposed to be a pretty huge confrence
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 487 2014-02-26 04:07:44 <Diablo-D3> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303880604579405852448992982
 488 2014-02-26 04:08:51 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3, zero info beyond headline, really
 489 2014-02-26 04:09:12 <Diablo-D3> no but I knew that was going to happen
 490 2014-02-26 04:09:18 <Diablo-D3> everyone was like NAW HE'LL GET AWAY WITH IT
 491 2014-02-26 04:09:23 <Diablo-D3> well guess what
 492 2014-02-26 04:09:24 <Diablo-D3> I was right
 493 2014-02-26 04:09:25 <Diablo-D3> again
 494 2014-02-26 04:09:26 <Diablo-D3> as usual
 495 2014-02-26 04:09:29 <Diablo-D3> like clockwork
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 503 2014-02-26 04:13:10 <dexX7> Diablo-D3: take this one: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101446338, more info
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 506 2014-02-26 04:15:01 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, shrug, receiving a subpoena isn't necessarily prologue to prosecution
 507 2014-02-26 04:15:06 <phantomcircuit> but yeah it could be
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 511 2014-02-26 04:17:00 <Diablo-D3> dexX7: thx
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 524 2014-02-26 04:27:20 <super3> heh, if I was Karpeles i would be more worried about angry bitcoin users than a subpoena
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 571 2014-02-26 05:05:04 <jcrubino> is the address version the same as the address prefix?
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 603 2014-02-26 05:44:37 <jcrubino> how can I find the prefix of an address being checked?
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 607 2014-02-26 05:49:26 <kadoban> jcrubino: it's the first byte of the address once you undo the base58 encoding, if you're talking about the address version or whatever
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 632 2014-02-26 06:09:39 <copumpkin> anyone have details on why kaminsky thinks this? https://twitter.com/tallystick/status/336212032414154752
 633 2014-02-26 06:09:41 <copumpkin> amiller?
 634 2014-02-26 06:10:19 <amiller> lol copumpkin, i'm currently editing a detailed timeline of the events leading to this silly bet :p
 635 2014-02-26 06:10:23 Raminnoodle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 636 2014-02-26 06:10:57 <copumpkin> I look forward to retweeting it :D
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 638 2014-02-26 06:11:36 <amiller> there are plenty of good reasons to want to change the proof of work function, i'm going to present a paper at oakland in may (i also rmabled about it at london 2012) about how one unutilized potential is to have the pow have some useful side effect like encouraging storage or archival or utxo data to help the network
 639 2014-02-26 06:11:57 <amiller> but i don't think dakami cared about that, his point was something about scrypt or defeating asics
 640 2014-02-26 06:12:50 <copumpkin> yeah
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 645 2014-02-26 06:17:22 <tonokip> trying to use gitian for first time. i get this error trying to build boost ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run copy-to-target  inputs/boost-mingw-gas-cross-compile-2013-03-03.patch build/ (RuntimeError)
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 651 2014-02-26 06:22:09 <tonokip> just tried deps-win.yml and i get this error: ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run on-target -u root -e DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get --no-install-recommends -y install mingw-w64 g++-mingw-w64 git-core zip faketime psmisc > var/install.log 2>&1 (RuntimeError)
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 654 2014-02-26 06:23:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: check var/install.log
 655 2014-02-26 06:23:59 roasbeef has joined
 656 2014-02-26 06:24:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And for boost, do you have the .patch file in inputs/?
 657 2014-02-26 06:24:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2:48:52 <midnightmagic> I've been dividing by two.. but it seems that's not the real size.
 658 2014-02-26 06:25:00 <tonokip> nope dont have the patch
 659 2014-02-26 06:25:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: are you measuring before you sign?
 660 2014-02-26 06:25:25 <tonokip> var log has: E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
 661 2014-02-26 06:25:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because the signature makes it bigger
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 663 2014-02-26 06:26:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: get the patch from the link in doc/release-process.md
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 665 2014-02-26 06:26:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: hm, that's odd -- can you pastebin the file?
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 667 2014-02-26 06:26:49 <tonokip> oh i should have it i grabbed all the inputs
 668 2014-02-26 06:27:10 <tonokip> well i guess i dont
 669 2014-02-26 06:27:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ls inputs/
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 671 2014-02-26 06:27:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|3:08:58 <Persopolis> think i'll burn my VM and start from scratch tomorrow - any recomendations for a distro with least pain on the dependencies
 672 2014-02-26 06:28:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Persopolis: I think Ubuntu is pretty good
 673 2014-02-26 06:28:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You can apt-get everything, including bdb4.8 if you add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
 674 2014-02-26 06:29:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: the apt error is odd, though -- could you pastebin it?
 675 2014-02-26 06:29:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(The install.log)
 676 2014-02-26 06:30:15 <tonokip> http://pastebin.com/sPv5kDJv
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 679 2014-02-26 06:31:19 <jcrubino> is there a reccomended c hashlib for sha256, base58
 680 2014-02-26 06:31:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Size mismatch? O_o
 681 2014-02-26 06:31:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe try it again?
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 684 2014-02-26 06:32:47 <tonokip> latest boost error, http://pastebin.com/PeL22M6p
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 686 2014-02-26 06:33:17 <tonokip> gitian is so magical :D
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 688 2014-02-26 06:34:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: does install.log have the same errors as the other one?
 689 2014-02-26 06:34:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Mismatches s
 690 2014-02-26 06:34:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|)
 691 2014-02-26 06:34:41 <tonokip> ya its not changed
 692 2014-02-26 06:34:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: yes it is
 693 2014-02-26 06:35:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Any
 694 2014-02-26 06:35:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm
 695 2014-02-26 06:35:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: btw, are you familiar with pastebinit?
 696 2014-02-26 06:35:48 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: there?
 697 2014-02-26 06:35:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It pastebins from the command line
 698 2014-02-26 06:35:53 <tonokip> nope
 699 2014-02-26 06:35:56 <tonokip> nice
 700 2014-02-26 06:36:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Either `pastebinit var/install.log`
 701 2014-02-26 06:36:35 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: I have a question regarding https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac ... is it normal if the root node's value != total balances
 702 2014-02-26 06:36:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or if you don't give it a file, it uses stdin
 703 2014-02-26 06:36:53 <wumpus> tonokip: btw, are you familiar with pastebinit? <- cool, didn't know that one yet
 704 2014-02-26 06:37:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So you can pipe something else into it
 705 2014-02-26 06:37:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or just run it, then type/paste into the terminal and ctrl-d
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 707 2014-02-26 06:38:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: hmm. Maybe try clearing the apt-cacher cache?
 708 2014-02-26 06:38:30 <wumpus> but don't accidentally your passwords/phrases into it :)
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 710 2014-02-26 06:39:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|By default it uses Debian's pastebin on Debian and Ubuntu's on Ubuntu
 711 2014-02-26 06:39:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But you can change that
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 713 2014-02-26 06:40:36 <tonokip> hm its a python3 script
 714 2014-02-26 06:40:48 <Luke-Jr> I use wgetpaste
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 718 2014-02-26 06:42:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, is it?
 719 2014-02-26 06:43:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Didn't know that
 720 2014-02-26 06:43:47 <tonokip> gitian complained about my private key permissions :/
 721 2014-02-26 06:44:22 <actuallygoodnews> gmaxwell: if you have time, have a look at https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof/blob/master/index.js .. i probably got something terribly wrong though :O
 722 2014-02-26 06:44:31 <tonokip> im trying to run this on an NTFS mounted external drive attached to my rig :D
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 724 2014-02-26 06:45:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: private key permissions? Eh?
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 728 2014-02-26 06:47:26 <tonokip> Permissions 0777 for '/mnt/gitian-builder/var/id_dsa' are too open.
 729 2014-02-26 06:48:07 <tonokip> oh well
 730 2014-02-26 06:48:51 <wumpus> 777 on id_dsa ... heh
 731 2014-02-26 06:49:14 <wumpus> even ssh will be angry at you and refuse to do anything, is my experience
 732 2014-02-26 06:49:38 <tonokip> ya i got stuck in this VM ssh login prompt
 733 2014-02-26 06:50:17 <Apocalyptic> <wumpus> even ssh will be angry at you and refuse to do anything, is my experience << true
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 735 2014-02-26 06:52:14 <wumpus> you need proper (only rwX for user) permissions on both the .ssh directory as well as the various files in it, for it to work, there is logging somewhere but the first time this happens you can spend a long time chasing down the reason why it won't accept your key
 736 2014-02-26 06:52:21 <tonokip> i cant seem to change any permissions on the mounted drive :/
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 739 2014-02-26 06:53:42 <wumpus> NTFS won't respect UNIX file permissions
 740 2014-02-26 06:53:58 <tonokip> yea it will :P
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 742 2014-02-26 06:54:19 <tonokip> well it lacks respect
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 744 2014-02-26 06:55:43 <wumpus> well at least it used to be like this: the permissions are determined fully at the mount point and there is no per-file configurability... maybe they implemented some mapping from NTFS perms to UNIX perms now, but it's likely more complicated then just using chmod
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 751 2014-02-26 07:02:26 <wumpus> in any case you could make ssh happy by mounting just for your user with no permissions for group and others
 752 2014-02-26 07:03:45 <tonokip> yea thats my plan
 753 2014-02-26 07:04:02 <wumpus> but this may be a wild goose chase; the gitian build relies on at least working +x/-x permissions and probably some other bits we haven't taken into account
 754 2014-02-26 07:05:01 <tonokip> well i was thinking of making a loopback drive if i needed to
 755 2014-02-26 07:05:06 <wumpus> that's a better idea
 756 2014-02-26 07:05:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: maybe shrink the ntfs partition and add an ext4?
 757 2014-02-26 07:05:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google loopback drive
 758 2014-02-26 07:05:33 <gribble> Loop device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_device>; What is a loopback driver? - TouchDAW - DAW controller and MIDI ...: <http://www.humatic.de/htools/touchdaw/man_loopback.htm>; Hubi's Loopback MIDI Driver: <http://www.sionsoft.com/hubi.html>
 759 2014-02-26 07:06:14 <wumpus> a loopback image mount will work fine; that's how gitian normally does things when you let it manage images
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 761 2014-02-26 07:07:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah, that would seem to work
 762 2014-02-26 07:07:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I wonder how badly gitian with lxc would fail on ntfs
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 764 2014-02-26 07:08:20 <tonokip> it really should work since its mostly in the vm anyway
 765 2014-02-26 07:08:44 <wumpus> lxc gitian uses images with an embedded file system too AFAIK so it should work
 766 2014-02-26 07:09:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah, does it?
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 768 2014-02-26 07:10:56 <tonokip> it works speculatively
 769 2014-02-26 07:11:13 <tonokip> having trouble trying to mount as a diff user :S
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 773 2014-02-26 07:16:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tonokip: good luck.
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 775 2014-02-26 07:18:00 <tonokip> had to use mount -o umask=077,gid=1000,uid=1000
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 781 2014-02-26 07:20:48 <tonokip> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
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 784 2014-02-26 07:22:18 <tonokip> guess i should clear that apt cache
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 810 2014-02-26 07:49:02 <wumpus> super3: thanks for working on that document btw
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1047 2014-02-26 11:19:13 <wumpus> hmm seems it's pretty easy to run against github's .mediawiki to html generation limits, tried to upload the Script  page from the bitcoin wiki https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-doc-project/blob/master/Script.mediawiki  "Sorry, this blob took too long to generate."
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1052 2014-02-26 11:24:38 <todamoon> anyone care to have a look at https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof ?
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1105 2014-02-26 12:12:19 <frib> why after changing my wallet.dat won't bitcoind server start?
1106 2014-02-26 12:12:25 <frib> thanks for any help..
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1109 2014-02-26 12:12:47 <frib> never mind it just took about 10 minutes.. works now
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1125 2014-02-26 12:22:53 <wumpus> debug.log will likely tell you why
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1151 2014-02-26 12:36:32 <roycocup> Hello! Anybody needs a developer for bitcoin based projects? I'm a freelance developer and I'm looking for gigs :)
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1159 2014-02-26 12:42:25 <todamoon> gmaxwell: I tried implementing your idea here: https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof .. let me know your thoughts if you have time
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1211 2014-02-26 13:21:15 <jgarzik> well, shit.
1212 2014-02-26 13:21:25 <jgarzik> bitcoind won't work in a 20GB VM anymore.
1213 2014-02-26 13:21:47 <Persopolis> really? ouch
1214 2014-02-26 13:22:21 <Persopolis> incidentally what distro do you use
1215 2014-02-26 13:22:21 <Mallstromm> what did you expect? The blockchain is already +18GB
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1220 2014-02-26 13:23:46 <Persopolis> 14.3G I think
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1224 2014-02-26 13:29:11 <andytoshi> my .bitcoin is 20.5 with -txindex and testnet
1225 2014-02-26 13:29:32 <andytoshi> todamoon: if you hash every node individually you can avoid having two people exposed on each query
1226 2014-02-26 13:31:02 <andytoshi> pretty slick tho, good job
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1235 2014-02-26 13:38:12 <todamoon> andytoshi: thanks
1236 2014-02-26 13:38:32 <todamoon> andytoshi: do you mean hash the username?
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1243 2014-02-26 13:39:10 <todamoon> I was trying to come up with an alternative
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1246 2014-02-26 13:40:05 <todamoon> make all user's sibling a dummy node with user 'dummy' balance: 0 or somehting
1247 2014-02-26 13:40:16 <todamoon> I've commented some of those issues in the code
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1251 2014-02-26 13:44:58 <andytoshi> todamoon: well, equivalent to pairing a dummy node, you could just make the leaves have no siblings
1252 2014-02-26 13:45:22 <andytoshi> so your data structure would have two types of nodes
1253 2014-02-26 13:45:59 <Persopolis> nooby question re blind solvency - I assume it still relies on honesty of the exchange
1254 2014-02-26 13:46:15 <andytoshi> Persopolis: in what sense?
1255 2014-02-26 13:46:34 <Persopolis> as in - they could in theory be showing bogus info?
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1257 2014-02-26 13:47:05 <andytoshi> Persopolis: the exchange can publish these values then run away with the money 1 second later. but any bogus info would mean some user has bad data
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1260 2014-02-26 13:47:47 <Persopolis> andytoshi - when you say publish, I thought this was going to be visible per user?
1261 2014-02-26 13:48:03 <Persopolis> rather than published publicly to all
1262 2014-02-26 13:48:10 <andytoshi> well, the root will be published, the individual paths are only published per user
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1264 2014-02-26 13:48:49 <todamoon> andytoshi: i see
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1266 2014-02-26 13:49:43 <todamoon> Persopolis: if i understand correctly they could show bogus info, but at least one user could find out he is not "included" in the tree
1267 2014-02-26 13:49:48 <andytoshi> so, the exchange can scam this by creating/cooperating with bad users, but that requires deliberate fraud on their part..also since all amounts are positive, adding accounts would simply make their claimed liabilities higher!
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1271 2014-02-26 13:50:53 <todamoon> the idea is that this is used in addition to the exchange proving they own the funds on the blockchain
1272 2014-02-26 13:51:24 <Persopolis> i see - very nice
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1274 2014-02-26 13:51:52 <andytoshi> right -- the hashtree proves liabilities, the blockchain proves assets
1275 2014-02-26 13:51:59 <todamoon> i think it would be a good idea to have a chrome extension that could automatically verify for users if their tree verifies
1276 2014-02-26 13:52:05 <Persopolis> albeit - would the exchanges want to advertise the value?
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1279 2014-02-26 13:52:25 <todamoon> there could be an open standard for publishing the root and trees
1280 2014-02-26 13:52:39 <todamoon> andytoshi: yes, well put
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1282 2014-02-26 13:53:12 <todamoon> Persopolis: that's an issue. but it could give them an advantage by appearing more trustworthy to users
1283 2014-02-26 13:53:26 <Persopolis> yes :)
1284 2014-02-26 13:53:46 <todamoon> I would personally be much more inclined to use an exchange that implemented this scheme
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1286 2014-02-26 13:54:31 <Persopolis> how often is it proposed this tree is refreshed
1287 2014-02-26 13:54:38 <todamoon> maybe i should rename the repo to "blind-liability-proof" ?
1288 2014-02-26 13:55:01 <todamoon> Persopolis: I guess not less then 1 day
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1290 2014-02-26 13:55:28 <todamoon> if it's too often, it is difficult to verify with other people that the root is no falsified
1291 2014-02-26 13:55:31 <todamoon> not*
1292 2014-02-26 13:55:36 <todamoon> damn, I'm tired
1293 2014-02-26 13:55:43 <Persopolis> indeed - hence my question
1294 2014-02-26 13:55:47 MtMole is now known as lnovy
1295 2014-02-26 13:56:15 <Persopolis> but also curious about integrity of in flight calculation
1296 2014-02-26 13:56:23 <Persopolis> would it need to be done on a snapshot of the DB
1297 2014-02-26 13:56:44 <todamoon> I think so yes
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1313 2014-02-26 14:06:14 <Persopolis> todamoon - if you implemented single leaf as andysuggested, what's the # of hashes perfromed for n users in a worse case scenario
1314 2014-02-26 14:06:32 <todamoon> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yzil4/i_implemented_gmaxwells/
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1316 2014-02-26 14:07:26 <todamoon> Persopolis: I think it's N + N/2 hashes total
1317 2014-02-26 14:08:07 <todamoon> then for each user you need to extract a tree which is relatively easy
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1319 2014-02-26 14:08:57 <todamoon> I'm not really sure I got the implementation right.. I'm pretty noob at crypto stuff
1320 2014-02-26 14:09:33 <todamoon> and I've been coding this on caffeine, I'm half dead right now haha
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1327 2014-02-26 14:14:01 <Persopolis> todamoon - what happened to the sample output format
1328 2014-02-26 14:14:40 <Persopolis> stripped new lines?
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1338 2014-02-26 14:17:57 <todamoon> Persopolis: what do you mean?
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1343 2014-02-26 14:18:42 <todamoon> the sample output in the README.md was before i built the CLI.. it might be a bit outdated
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1346 2014-02-26 14:19:37 <Persopolis> I'm sure when I looked at it on git before i looked good - when i look now it seems to be missing newlines
1347 2014-02-26 14:19:46 <sipa> paste?
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1352 2014-02-26 14:21:44 <Persopolis> http://pastebin.com/GHbaNrZV
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1355 2014-02-26 14:22:29 <todamoon> Persopolis: I'm not getting this here
1356 2014-02-26 14:23:02 <todamoon> Persopolis: https://raw.github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof/master/README.md
1357 2014-02-26 14:23:11 <Persopolis> wierd - it was looking good for me till a few minutes ago - must be git
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1399 2014-02-26 14:35:33 <olalonde> damn ISP :( (todamoon here)
1400 2014-02-26 14:35:34 airq has joined
1401 2014-02-26 14:35:58 <chichov> anyone has the LoC in main.cpp closeby where the timestamp is updated during mining?
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1407 2014-02-26 14:36:20 <AmThatsMe> Hi everyone !
1408 2014-02-26 14:37:03 <AmThatsMe> Anyone can suggest me what unit tests are missing and should be done for bitcoind ?
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1421 2014-02-26 14:43:38 <orweinberger> gmaxwell, check it out https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof
1422 2014-02-26 14:45:55 <wumpus> AmThatsMe: I'm sure there are quite some functions/methods that don't have unit tests yet
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1425 2014-02-26 14:49:09 <wumpus> AmThatsMe: also high-level tests that test for example RPC methods are welcome, see qa/rpc-tests
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1435 2014-02-26 14:58:22 <alex_fun> heya :D
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1437 2014-02-26 14:59:17 <alex_fun> gavinandresen: I used this guide http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2011/11/deploying-bitcoin-qt-on-osx.html
1438 2014-02-26 14:59:26 <alex_fun> some far nearly works but 1 error
1439 2014-02-26 14:59:32 <alex_fun> http://pastebin.com/ENc8SSVz
1440 2014-02-26 15:00:20 <alex_fun> I qmake pro and then make make makefile after rebuilding macports with arch 386 and macosx_deployment_target 10.5
1441 2014-02-26 15:00:21 <sipa> seems your leveldb is 64 bit but your bitcoind build is 32-bit
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1443 2014-02-26 15:00:32 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: that means your leveled library was compile 64-bit instead of 32-bit
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1445 2014-02-26 15:00:57 <gavinandresen> The leveldb change happened after I wrote that guide...
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1447 2014-02-26 15:00:58 <alex_fun> ok I use osx 64 on that os is it possible to compile 32 bit qt at all?
1448 2014-02-26 15:01:08 <alex_fun> yes it was 2011 hehe
1449 2014-02-26 15:01:10 <gavinandresen> The makefiles probably aren't obeying the -arch flag
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1452 2014-02-26 15:02:04 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: I think we should drop 32-bit support with the 0.9 release
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1456 2014-02-26 15:02:41 <alex_fun> I compiled with default libs on 10.8 and it crashed on 10.9
1457 2014-02-26 15:02:49 <gavinandresen> It isn't clear that you can even sync the block chain any more on a 32-bit machine...
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1459 2014-02-26 15:02:58 <sipa> sure you can
1460 2014-02-26 15:03:00 <alex_fun> gavin how come?
1461 2014-02-26 15:03:32 <alex_fun> imo 32 ensures wide compatability
1462 2014-02-26 15:03:38 <alex_fun> *ensures
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1464 2014-02-26 15:04:06 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.  Let me rephrase, then: I am not willing to do the work necessary to figure out how to make it all work.
1465 2014-02-26 15:05:07 <gavinandresen> sipa: I remember reports of out-of-memory errors syncing with less than 4GB of memory, but I might be misremembering.  I am not willing to do the work of actually testing a block chain sync on a 32-bit machine...
1466 2014-02-26 15:05:08 <alex_fun> gavin a bit off topic did u consider in previous summer to warn users stop using mtgox and remove them from foundation?
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1469 2014-02-26 15:05:29 <alex_fun> I can test on some machines
1470 2014-02-26 15:05:35 <alex_fun> if its easy and fun
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1473 2014-02-26 15:05:49 <sipa> gavinandresen: since then we've merged code to store orphan blocks in serialized form, and limit their number
1474 2014-02-26 15:06:01 <sipa> gavinandresen: those were the reason for excessive memory usage during sync
1475 2014-02-26 15:06:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: great!
1476 2014-02-26 15:06:23 <alex_fun> sipa do u think once I recompile leveldb into 32 bit it can work? :)
1477 2014-02-26 15:06:26 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: thanks for testing, but if there is nobody to fix bugs you find.....
1478 2014-02-26 15:06:48 <alex_fun> lol well there is one guy who said he is fixing all btc code
1479 2014-02-26 15:06:52 <alex_fun> in 3 to 6 months
1480 2014-02-26 15:07:12 <gavinandresen> (If you're willing to test and submit patches to fix issues, then awesome, thanks, good job, etc)
1481 2014-02-26 15:07:14 <chichov> say what? MtGox completely down? https://www.mtgox.com/
1482 2014-02-26 15:07:32 <alex_fun> chi imo it was known even in summer
1483 2014-02-26 15:07:42 <alex_fun> when they could not pay properly via wire :D
1484 2014-02-26 15:07:43 <wumpus> well-documented bug reports are also welcome, even if there is no one to solve them immediately
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1487 2014-02-26 15:08:24 <alex_fun> how come there are more bugs I though satoshi made code more less working and then few bugs were fixed asap by sipa gavin lianji etc
1488 2014-02-26 15:08:28 <chichov> I hated the full-verification procedure, so I was transferring everything back to Bitstamp as a workaround
1489 2014-02-26 15:08:39 <alex_fun> i use btc e and happy :)
1490 2014-02-26 15:08:43 <chichov> but complete shutdown is somewhat excessive
1491 2014-02-26 15:08:46 <gavinandresen> wumpus: mmm.  I still think we try to support too many platforms….  bugs like "doesn't work on my raspberry pi" are just clutter in my opinion
1492 2014-02-26 15:09:14 <chichov> I was only aware of the late signature malleability issue, which was apparently resolved
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1496 2014-02-26 15:09:55 <alex_fun> sipa submited solution to it I saw
1497 2014-02-26 15:09:56 <wumpus> gavinandresen: that's why I said 'well documented'. I similarly hate 'doesn't work!' reports that don't give any handle on debugging or require strange hardware or OSes to reproduce.
1498 2014-02-26 15:09:57 <chichov> maybe the shutdown is also due to the current possibility of arbitrage due to differences in exchange rates
1499 2014-02-26 15:10:34 <alex_fun> chi imo they done it deliberately to destablise trust in exchanges and give regulators excuse for more regulation
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1504 2014-02-26 15:12:31 <gavinandresen> wumpus: so yesterday I spent a bunch of time trying to get an OSX build of 0.9 working, worked through some issues… and finally ended up with a binary that I THOUGHT would work on OSX 10.6+, but didn't.
1505 2014-02-26 15:13:02 <wumpus> gavinandresen: sounds like OSX is even more frustrating than Windows to develop for
1506 2014-02-26 15:13:18 <alex_fun> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=7e186vvjimajkfp5rvoqub3cd6&topic=337294.100 lol
1507 2014-02-26 15:13:20 <chichov> the price falls last year that occured due to issues with MtGox have clearly demonstrated how dependent the currency is on major exchanges
1508 2014-02-26 15:13:20 <chichov> however, this talk belongs more into the general section. Let us not flood this channel
1509 2014-02-26 15:13:31 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I'm planning on taking the easy way out-- I've got an OSX 10.6 Server on order that I'll run in a VM, and will compile / test in that VM
1510 2014-02-26 15:13:46 <alex_fun> gavinandresen:  I was adviced to use cmake, have u tried it?
1511 2014-02-26 15:13:47 <wumpus> gavinandresen: at least on Windows if you have a working executable it *usually* works on all variants as well as wine
1512 2014-02-26 15:13:52 <gavinandresen> wumpus: … and I plan on linking against QT4.  QT5 is confounding me
1513 2014-02-26 15:13:58 <sipa> chichov: please take the price talk elsewhere
1514 2014-02-26 15:14:10 <Diablo-D3> so guys, when is the tx mutability issue going to be fixed?
1515 2014-02-26 15:14:13 <sipa> oh, you just suggested that :)
1516 2014-02-26 15:14:15 <Diablo-D3> well, fix for it shipped
1517 2014-02-26 15:14:34 <AmThatsMe> wumpus: thanks ! I am new to the code and look for some precise task to begin with ... any idea ? i know it's a newbie question but the project is fairly big to just "choose" something
1518 2014-02-26 15:14:47 <helo> Diablo-D3: guessing 0.9
1519 2014-02-26 15:14:56 <alex_fun> gavinandresen:  is there are any bounty for osx howto? to build wallet that works on all osx?
1520 2014-02-26 15:14:57 <alex_fun> :DS
1521 2014-02-26 15:15:12 <sipa> Diablo-D3: 0.9 will have improved wallet support for double spends/mutations
1522 2014-02-26 15:15:19 <alex_fun> I know one person who might be able to figure out easy way to build on osx
1523 2014-02-26 15:15:20 <wumpus> gavinandresen: okay, it's fine with me to ship with qt4, I just wanted to remind you of OSX Qt5 work that was done
1524 2014-02-26 15:15:26 <helo> Diablo-D3: given that everyone affected has already compensated for malleability, there's not a big rush
1525 2014-02-26 15:15:27 <sipa> Diablo-D3: malleability as such will not be fixed - in many cases it's an intended feature
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1527 2014-02-26 15:15:43 <Diablo-D3> sipa: I dont care for it now that I know it works
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1530 2014-02-26 15:15:56 <Diablo-D3> sipa: I just wonder who was smart enough to make it work
1531 2014-02-26 15:15:58 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: there was some progress on a cross-compiled, deterministic-in-a-Linux-VM OSX build
1532 2014-02-26 15:16:03 <Diablo-D3> I never could
1533 2014-02-26 15:16:15 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: that is the way forward
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1537 2014-02-26 15:17:17 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its just that it IS a security bug, and I dont like projects sitting on them
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1539 2014-02-26 15:17:38 <alex_fun> gavinandresen:  do u know c candar?
1540 2014-02-26 15:17:46 <alex_fun> imo he  can know easy way out lol
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1542 2014-02-26 15:18:06 <alex_fun> there are some top C++ osx people they would know imi
1543 2014-02-26 15:18:08 <alex_fun> imo
1544 2014-02-26 15:18:19 <chichov> sipa: sure thing, my apologies
1545 2014-02-26 15:18:19 <chichov> sipa: In what context is it intended as a feature?
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1547 2014-02-26 15:18:31 <gavinandresen> alex_fun: great! I don't know any of them, if you do, see if they'll help.
1548 2014-02-26 15:18:33 <sipa> chichov: some contracts
1549 2014-02-26 15:18:47 <sipa> chichov: the sighash flags basically state what degree of malleability you want
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1552 2014-02-26 15:19:08 <wumpus> AmThatsMe: OK what about: write a test for the 'signmessage'/'verifymessage' RPCs
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1559 2014-02-26 15:21:33 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yes from what I remember cfields came pretty far https://github.com/theuni/osx-cross-depends , there was still an issue with getting deterministic dmgs 
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1563 2014-02-26 15:23:44 <alex_fun> gavin its just tricky nowdays as before people would do it as out of interest now they see that foundation did not warn about mtgox and well some saying they dont want to contribute as much code wise lol but some are interested so yes fun
1564 2014-02-26 15:24:17 <Joric> 4 pages about brainwallet, cool, eh? http://imgur.com/a/DNeAI
1565 2014-02-26 15:24:26 <alex_fun> anyway perhaps its easy thing to do
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1567 2014-02-26 15:25:14 <gavinandresen> "foundation did not warn about mtgox…"  The Foundation has been pretty clear with the message "ONLY INVEST TIME OR MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE".  Anyway, off-topic for here....
1568 2014-02-26 15:25:21 <sipa> Joric: imo it should just be "Don't do it"
1569 2014-02-26 15:25:23 <wumpus> alex_fun: wut? are you insinuating that the bf had any prior knowledge about gox messing up / closing down?
1570 2014-02-26 15:25:29 <sipa> Joric: but that doesn't make for a nice article :)
1571 2014-02-26 15:25:49 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: mtgox resigned from the foundation, right?
1572 2014-02-26 15:25:53 <alex_fun> wumpus lol common people knew  in summer withdrawal took ages
1573 2014-02-26 15:26:17 <wumpus> yes this is not #bitcoin-conspiracy-theories move it somewhere else
1574 2014-02-26 15:26:34 <alex_fun> wumpus: u asked, do note
1575 2014-02-26 15:26:39 <Diablo-D3> I bet gavin still has me on ignore
1576 2014-02-26 15:27:05 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I got rained on yesterday! Why didn't you warn me!  :)
1577 2014-02-26 15:27:11 Frol has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
1578 2014-02-26 15:27:13 <alex_fun> !!!!
1579 2014-02-26 15:27:13 <gribble> Error: "!!!" is not a valid command.
1580 2014-02-26 15:27:16 <alex_fun> lol
1581 2014-02-26 15:27:17 <Diablo-D3> lol
1582 2014-02-26 15:27:39 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ONLY GO OUTSIDE IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO GET WET
1583 2014-02-26 15:27:42 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
1584 2014-02-26 15:27:45 <alex_fun> I reply in #bitcoin
1585 2014-02-26 15:27:46 <alex_fun> to that
1586 2014-02-26 15:27:52 <sipa> gavinandresen: so you knew?
1587 2014-02-26 15:27:54 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1588 2014-02-26 15:28:03 <Joric> sipa, blame Vitalik Buterin
1589 2014-02-26 15:28:22 uiop has joined
1590 2014-02-26 15:28:27 <gavinandresen> sipa: that it might rain? yes.  But I like walking in the rain
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1592 2014-02-26 15:28:40 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1593 2014-02-26 15:28:42 <gavinandresen> except when it is really cold… and not freezing rain, that just sucks
1594 2014-02-26 15:28:46 <Grouver> ^
1595 2014-02-26 15:28:51 <Joric> holy crap, he looks even worse than luke-jr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9dpjN3Mwps
1596 2014-02-26 15:29:17 drayah has joined
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1598 2014-02-26 15:30:07 <wumpus> Joric: this isn't #bitcoins-next-top-model either
1599 2014-02-26 15:30:32 <alex_fun> wumpus:  u wont shush issue anyway
1600 2014-02-26 15:30:32 <alex_fun> :)
1601 2014-02-26 15:30:38 <alex_fun> people many are furious
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1603 2014-02-26 15:31:01 <wumpus> alex_fun: what makes you think I have any interest in that?
1604 2014-02-26 15:31:35 <wumpus> this is a development channel cut all the bullshit
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1607 2014-02-26 15:33:01 <askmike> gmaxwell I just read about your "prove-how-(non)-fractional-your-Bitcoin-reserves-are scheme" and I have a question about the verification part: to http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yzil4/i_implemented_gmaxwells/cfp74as
1608 2014-02-26 15:33:36 <askmike> could you maybe elaborate?
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1611 2014-02-26 15:34:27 <gmaxwell> askmike: you have your account information in the leaf node (along with a nonce and the value), there isn't any privace harm to this— as the site only gives the leaf to you.
1612 2014-02-26 15:34:51 <Joric> did mark really use php client (probably written by jed mcaleb)? it looks pretty plausible now %)
1613 2014-02-26 15:35:34 <jgarzik> Joric, yes (#mtgox / #offtopic)
1614 2014-02-26 15:36:05 <Joric> ok im shutting up but OMG
1615 2014-02-26 15:36:56 <askmike> gmaxwell ah so we should also come up with a suggested scheme for this. As something like an account id or anything shown in the interface can just be faked of course.
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1638 2014-02-26 15:50:55 <davec> would there be any objections to inventing an address version byte for the regtest network?  It would be nice to be able to exercise code paths with dynamically generated blocks that do p2pkh and p2sh
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1640 2014-02-26 15:52:07 <se[c]> st/win 19
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1647 2014-02-26 15:54:30 <sipa> davec: no objection, and i don't think it will hurt existing code
1648 2014-02-26 15:54:35 <wumpus> davec: IMO simply use the testnet one
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1651 2014-02-26 15:54:47 <sipa> that's also an option
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1653 2014-02-26 15:55:11 <wumpus> as far as most things are concerned regtest is simply a more convenient testnet-in-a-box
1654 2014-02-26 15:55:27 <davec> wumpus: well the problem there is when you decode an address
1655 2014-02-26 15:55:35 <davec> the network you get back will be the wrong one
1656 2014-02-26 15:55:54 <davec> it's be testnet3 instead of regtest (different magic)
1657 2014-02-26 15:55:55 <sipa> ?
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1663 2014-02-26 15:58:13 <Diablo-D3> lol who gave nkuttler ops in #bitcoin
1664 2014-02-26 15:58:52 <davec> sipa: were you asking me with that ?
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1667 2014-02-26 15:59:59 <sipa> davec: yes, i don't understand how you could get a mismatch; the network applies to both if they use the same version bytes...
1668 2014-02-26 16:00:05 <sipa> and the network magic isn't encoded
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1670 2014-02-26 16:00:27 <Diablo-D3> improperly parsed it? endian problems?
1671 2014-02-26 16:00:33 <sipa> or you mean that you could accidentally do a regtest send to a testnet address or the other way around, sending coins into the boid?
1672 2014-02-26 16:00:36 <sipa> *void
1673 2014-02-26 16:00:52 <sipa> they're both without value, so that shouldn't be too bad
1674 2014-02-26 16:01:12 <davec> sipa: sort of, but more about doing the net checks
1675 2014-02-26 16:01:46 <davec> when you decode the addres you'll get back 111 which maps to the testnet magic
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1677 2014-02-26 16:02:15 <davec> so if you're later doing a check to test that you're addresses are on the right network, it'll fail because your currently active network is regtest, but the address is testnet
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1679 2014-02-26 16:02:22 <davec> s/you're/your
1680 2014-02-26 16:02:28 <sipa> right, yeah
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1682 2014-02-26 16:02:34 <sipa> if you implement it that way
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1684 2014-02-26 16:03:29 <alex_fun> sipa it occured to me it would probably be easier to build osx wallet if I used 32 bit osx to start with?
1685 2014-02-26 16:03:31 <wumpus> looking at chainparams, regtest already uses/inherits the testnet base58Prefixes
1686 2014-02-26 16:03:53 suhailski has joined
1687 2014-02-26 16:03:56 <wumpus> is there any place this isn't working?
1688 2014-02-26 16:04:33 Soligor has joined
1689 2014-02-26 16:04:44 OperatorSyn has joined
1690 2014-02-26 16:04:51 <shesek> anyone know of any services/softwares that uses multi-signature transactions?
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1692 2014-02-26 16:05:07 <davec> looking through the code atm, but I seem to recall it checks the network by magic
1693 2014-02-26 16:05:26 <davec> I could certainly be remembering wrong
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1698 2014-02-26 16:06:03 <sipa> no, it doesn't
1699 2014-02-26 16:06:21 <sipa> the client is loaded in one mode only, and only knows about the version / magic bytes for that network
1700 2014-02-26 16:06:36 <sipa> which means in regtest it will accept the same style addresses as testnet
1701 2014-02-26 16:06:41 <sipa> which is the intended effect
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1706 2014-02-26 16:08:09 <wumpus> davec: why don't you just try it out
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1709 2014-02-26 16:08:12 <skinnkavaj> Lol @ this magic exchange. How can they be robbed of 750.000 BTC for years without noticing. How is it even possible.
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1714 2014-02-26 16:09:53 <sipa> skinnkavaj: not here, please
1715 2014-02-26 16:09:55 <stonecoldpat> skinnkavaj: not really the place to discuss it
1716 2014-02-26 16:10:43 <wumpus> davec: I'm pretty sure everything works with regtest; the only exception might be bitcoin URIs on the command line passed from the browser as it detects testnet/mainnet based on the version byte of the address, but regtest URIs don't make sense anyway
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1725 2014-02-26 16:17:47 <davec> wumpus: right, it does work for the most part.  As you noted there are a couple of places where things break down when you assume version bytes maps to a unique network
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1727 2014-02-26 16:18:25 <wumpus> davec: but we don't do that anywhere AFAIK except the one case I mentioned
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1729 2014-02-26 16:20:12 <olalonde> gmaxwell: thanks for your feedback on GH (blind-solvency-proof)
1730 2014-02-26 16:20:52 <gmaxwell> olalonde: thanks for working on it.
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1735 2014-02-26 16:26:51 <jgarzik> ROFL
1736 2014-02-26 16:27:02 <jgarzik> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-2014-report/
1737 2014-02-26 16:27:09 <jgarzik> Major upcoming features... slide 62
1738 2014-02-26 16:27:22 <jgarzik> "Autotools protocol: Makes it easier for experience open source developers to contribute to the project"
1739 2014-02-26 16:28:05 Grouver has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1740 2014-02-26 16:28:09 <sipa> "protocol"
1741 2014-02-26 16:28:17 <wumpus> hehe
1742 2014-02-26 16:28:29 <gmaxwell> it's funnier in the slide, because there are only three things listed.
1743 2014-02-26 16:28:56 <gmaxwell> Autotools: Makes it easier to contribute to the project"  would be totally fine in a list of like .. 30 things.
1744 2014-02-26 16:29:08 <gavinandresen> wumpus: would you have time to do a guest Foundation blog post on all the nifty GUI changes coming up in 0.9 ?
1745 2014-02-26 16:29:16 <gavinandresen> e.g. coin control….
1746 2014-02-26 16:29:20 <wumpus> gavinandresen: sure
1747 2014-02-26 16:29:55 <gavinandresen> wumpus: awesome, thanks
1748 2014-02-26 16:30:32 <wumpus> gavinandresen: how does that work, is there some kind of login system?
1749 2014-02-26 16:31:04 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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1751 2014-02-26 16:31:35 <gavinandresen> wumpus: it is WordPress, I'll create a login for you ...
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1753 2014-02-26 16:31:40 <wumpus> ok
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1772 2014-02-26 16:49:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|When was that coindesk thing made?
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1774 2014-02-26 16:49:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Slide 63 mentions disable-wallet
1775 2014-02-26 16:50:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|When was that merged?
1776 2014-02-26 16:50:09 quijibo has joined
1777 2014-02-26 16:50:17 drayah has joined
1778 2014-02-26 16:50:21 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|is surprised there's no github link in the topic
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1783 2014-02-26 16:52:09 <wumpus> there's actually -disablewallet (a run-time option) and --disable-wallet (configure time)
1784 2014-02-26 16:52:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(mentions it as "Gavin says it will hopefully be in 0.9)
1785 2014-02-26 16:52:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: ik
1786 2014-02-26 16:53:06 <wumpus> they were seperate efforts, -disablewallet was merged earlier
1787 2014-02-26 16:53:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, just saw that
1788 2014-02-26 16:53:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Turning off at compile time was early December
1789 2014-02-26 16:53:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In other words, they didn't actually check the git tree
1790 2014-02-26 16:53:52 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1791 2014-02-26 16:53:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or PR list)
1792 2014-02-26 16:54:15 <wumpus> or the release notes
1793 2014-02-26 16:54:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|-disablewallet came November 13
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1796 2014-02-26 16:56:17 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|hadn't realized ASICs only became available in January 2013
1797 2014-02-26 16:56:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(SHA256^2 ASICs, I mean)
1798 2014-02-26 16:56:29 drayah_ has joined
1799 2014-02-26 16:57:14 <wumpus> more than a year ago, that's a century in bitcoin time :)
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1850 2014-02-26 17:24:12 <jordandotdev> hey all, I'm curious if the forthcoming OP_RETURN code will be available in the scripting mechanism within a transaction?
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1852 2014-02-26 17:25:10 <wumpus> jordandotdev: OP_RETURN is only available in scripts
1853 2014-02-26 17:25:18 <sipa> OP_RETURN has always existed as a script opcode
1854 2014-02-26 17:25:42 <sipa> what changes now is 1) if you have an output that has a script "OP_RETURN <anything>", it's not stored in the database
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1856 2014-02-26 17:26:07 <sipa> and that you're allowed to have one such output in a standard transaction
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1860 2014-02-26 17:27:55 <jordandotdev> Ok.
1861 2014-02-26 17:28:17 <jordandotdev> wumpus thank you, that makes sense. I'm familiarizing myself.
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1866 2014-02-26 17:30:57 <jordandotdev> sipa so one could theoretically require a transaction originator to tag a transaction OP_RETURN <ENCODED_WHATEVER> and than the scripting instruction can perform some validation of that value and return a FALSE if it didn't validate per whatever specification was encoded into the transaction's script
1867 2014-02-26 17:31:40 <sipa> jordandotdev: no
1868 2014-02-26 17:31:55 <sipa> jordandotdev: as OP_RETURN already means "trying to spend this output always fails"
1869 2014-02-26 17:32:35 <wumpus> the input executes first then the output, so you cannot use the return value of the output script for anything
1870 2014-02-26 17:32:51 <jordandotdev> Ok.
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1872 2014-02-26 17:33:24 <jordandotdev> OP_RETURN Is assigned strickly as an OUTPUT of the script
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1874 2014-02-26 17:33:51 <wumpus> for the new standard usage it is
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1877 2014-02-26 17:37:21 <wumpus> OP_RETURN would also be a valid opcode in the input script but that's non-standard and probably pointless
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1880 2014-02-26 17:39:16 <jordandotdev> wumpus Ok, I need to read a bit more about it's presumed usage.
1881 2014-02-26 17:39:19 <jordandotdev> it sounds like
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1893 2014-02-26 17:41:57 <jrick> wouldn't not saving the pushed data after an OP_RETURN cause sigscripts to fail if they execuate later (say, doing a verifychain)?
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1898 2014-02-26 17:44:18 <wumpus> not only the data is not stored, the entire output is not stored, as it is provably unspendable
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1900 2014-02-26 17:45:12 <jrick> (just looked at verifychain and I don't think it executes scripts but I could be wrong)
1901 2014-02-26 17:45:26 <wumpus> heh, OP_RETURN in an input script would mean 'this transaction is always invalid', so yes it is pointless :)
1902 2014-02-26 17:45:40 <jrick> I mean for outputs
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1907 2014-02-26 17:47:37 <jrick> unless creating the hashed data to sign ignores provably unspendable outputs already
1908 2014-02-26 17:47:40 <jgarzik> wumpus, the data is not stored [in the UTXO]
1909 2014-02-26 17:47:51 <jgarzik> it's still shipped around the network and in the chain
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1911 2014-02-26 17:48:37 <wumpus> jgarzik: sure, if only it wasn't we wouldn't have to worry about the size so much
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1945 2014-02-26 18:08:10 <jordandotdev> wumpus so that goes to the mastercoin concept of creating provably unspendable transactions as basically records of interest in the blockchain
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1947 2014-02-26 18:09:12 <wumpus> jordandotdev: could be -- I don't know anything about mastercoin
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1957 2014-02-26 18:13:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: You consider a typo in a comment to be a bug?
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1959 2014-02-26 18:13:26 <wumpus> he probably meant that as a joke
1960 2014-02-26 18:13:46 <Luke-Jr> I do, though a waste of time to PR over
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1962 2014-02-26 18:14:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|19:36:51 <wumpus> OP_RETURN would also be a valid opcode in the input script but that's non-standard and probably pointless <-- Probably? The transaction is invalid. It can't even be relayed, let alone mined.
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1964 2014-02-26 18:14:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, you said that right after
1965 2014-02-26 18:15:14 <jgarzik> mostly a joke, but it makes people twitch.  more important areas of code in the Linux kernel have misdirected programmers before, due to incorrect comments.
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2033 2014-02-26 18:46:24 <sipa> wumpus: seen this? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/22716/bitcoind-sendfrom-round-amount-error
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2037 2014-02-26 18:47:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: doesn't reproduce on git master here.
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2040 2014-02-26 18:50:04 <wumpus> weird
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2042 2014-02-26 18:51:52 <wumpus> I remember that there was an issue at a certain point resulting in these tests to be added https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/rpc_tests.cpp#L106
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2046 2014-02-26 18:52:21 <wumpus> someone had upgraded JSON spirit, but that was reverted, and never made it into a release IIRC
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2064 2014-02-26 19:02:37 <wumpus> ported those testcases over to 0.8.6 and added 1.99990005/1.99990004, no problems
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2094 2014-02-26 19:16:48 <crazydip> I'm trying to password protect my Multibit wallet, but it keeps crashing using OpenJDK 1.7.0_51. Is there a workaround? There is an 3mo outstanding issue on github with no fix: https://github.com/jim618/multibit/issues/325 - I have plenty of free RAM (~5GB) so that's not the issue
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2096 2014-02-26 19:20:29 <TD> it's not an out of memory error
2097 2014-02-26 19:20:37 <TD> if you're seeing the same output it's a null pointer dereference inside native code
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2099 2014-02-26 19:21:44 <TD> crazydip: the hs_error.log file would be interesting if you could pastebin it
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2115 2014-02-26 19:30:45 <crazydip> TD: I could, but is it safe? I don't want to reveal anything wallet & transaction related.
2116 2014-02-26 19:31:14 <TD> you can also email it to me, mike@plan99.net
2117 2014-02-26 19:31:23 <TD> for what it's worth, i develop the core part of multibit
2118 2014-02-26 19:31:31 <TD> so you're already trusting my software to some extent
2119 2014-02-26 19:33:03 <crazydip> TD: but is it possible that there will be wallet / transaction info in the hs_error.log?
2120 2014-02-26 19:33:40 <TD> i don't look at them very much, but i don't think so. you could check for yourself and remove it, if so? or is the issue that you aren't sure how to recognise it?
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2123 2014-02-26 19:34:50 <dhill> wonder what Snoopy is
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2125 2014-02-26 19:36:30 <crazydip> Issue is I'm not sure how to recognize it.
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2127 2014-02-26 19:36:37 <crazydip> TD: ^
2128 2014-02-26 19:36:46 <TD> ah
2129 2014-02-26 19:36:48 <TD> hmmm
2130 2014-02-26 19:37:06 <TD> let me see if i can find an example
2131 2014-02-26 19:37:17 <TD> ok here's one -  https://code.google.com/p/raptor-chess-interface/issues/attachmentText?id=668&aid=6680006000&name=hs_error.log&token=EkR8v9_TnG5zSVazvuzinNG9H9o%3A1389405751491
2132 2014-02-26 19:37:22 <TD> looks like no private data would be included
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2150 2014-02-26 19:40:39 <crazydip> TD: I have an idea, I'll just create a new Multibit instance without any personal data, an empty wallet, and then get the crash report from that... ok?
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2152 2014-02-26 19:40:55 <sipa> sounds safe
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2161 2014-02-26 19:43:44 <crazydip> Besides ~/Multibit is there any other path that's used for saving Multibit info (like a config)?
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2164 2014-02-26 19:44:16 <crazydip> assuming default settings
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2170 2014-02-26 19:47:12 <gjs278> what's the option to set a limit on cores for blockchain reindexing on bitcoind?
2171 2014-02-26 19:47:18 <sipa> -par=N
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2173 2014-02-26 19:47:35 <TD> crazydip: hmm, not sure. i don't think so
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2177 2014-02-26 19:48:23 <gjs278> thanks
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2180 2014-02-26 19:49:10 <crazydip> TD: okay... right now I'm going AFK but in like 30min-1h I'll get the log file and pastebin it
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2184 2014-02-26 19:50:07 <TD> ok
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2190 2014-02-26 19:50:52 <crazydip> I noticed that on github the last commit was 2 months ago... what happened? is there another more up-to-date repo?
2191 2014-02-26 19:52:52 <TD> multibit is being rewritten
2192 2014-02-26 19:52:58 <TD> currently on a private branch
2193 2014-02-26 19:53:16 <TD> rewritten is perhaps under-selling. it's actually being redesigned and rebuilt from scratch to be a new product
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2195 2014-02-26 19:53:30 <sipa> "reinvented"
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2197 2014-02-26 19:53:44 <gmaxwell> "Abandoned and replaced"
2198 2014-02-26 19:53:46 <gmaxwell> :P
2199 2014-02-26 19:54:40 <TD> all would be reasonable descriptions :)
2200 2014-02-26 19:54:52 <sipa> "total makeover"
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2310 2014-02-26 20:05:17 <naout> who want to exchange 1 vps username for a other? :) /msg me
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2364 2014-02-26 20:11:50 <naout> who want to exchange 1 vps username for a other? :) /msg me
2365 2014-02-26 20:12:16 <BlueMatt> naout: wrong channel, gtfo
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2459 2014-02-26 21:00:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's annoying that all github notification emails come from the same address, but labelled with the name of whoever generated the notification
2460 2014-02-26 21:00:55 [ICE] has left ()
2461 2014-02-26 21:01:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What's annoying about it, specifically, is the way Gmail handles conversations
2462 2014-02-26 21:01:26 airq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2463 2014-02-26 21:01:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It will only show multiple people involved in the conversation if they have different email addresses
2464 2014-02-26 21:01:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If the same email address, with 2 different names, occurs in a conversation, it will just show the first one in the list
2465 2014-02-26 21:02:19 nsh has joined
2466 2014-02-26 21:02:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So if Gavin generates the first notification (comment or whatever) that I receive by email, all subsequent notifications on that item will appear to come from Gavin until I click on them
2467 2014-02-26 21:03:29 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: this isn't #gmail-bug-reports
2468 2014-02-26 21:03:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's not a Gmail bug report
2469 2014-02-26 21:03:58 <Luke-Jr> it's not #gmail-rants either :D
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2472 2014-02-26 21:04:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well
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2474 2014-02-26 21:04:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'm not sure who's to blame in this case
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2476 2014-02-26 21:05:17 <Luke-Jr> Gmail violates so many email standards, I doubt they're innocent here
2477 2014-02-26 21:05:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|On one hand, Gmail could handle conversations with the same email address but different names better
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2479 2014-02-26 21:05:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But OTOH, what GH is doing seems weird to me.
2480 2014-02-26 21:05:48 <TD> it violates the standards because the standards are crappy :) it sounds like that problem is basically a problem with email
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2482 2014-02-26 21:06:16 <TD> a service wants to send mail on behalf of lots of other senders
2483 2014-02-26 21:06:23 <TD> but isn't really sending as them
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2494 2014-02-26 21:13:06 <RizeRuze> evening
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2496 2014-02-26 21:13:28 <jerseykx> or afternoon ;)
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2499 2014-02-26 21:15:34 <jerseykx> would anyone be interested in doing a new hybrid web wallet? (not sure if this is the right channel for this, but i'd be interested in talking to developers)
2500 2014-02-26 21:16:03 <sipa> i'm not sure you'll find much love for webwallets in the first place here
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2502 2014-02-26 21:16:23 <jerseykx> why so?
2503 2014-02-26 21:16:39 <crazydip> webwallet is like a condom made out of paper
2504 2014-02-26 21:17:02 <sipa> bitcoin offers the ability to be in control of your own money, without needing to trust anyone... and then you'll give a website control over it?
2505 2014-02-26 21:17:08 <jerseykx> heh, there are some ideas about improving security, like P2SH
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2507 2014-02-26 21:17:21 <jerseykx> you could do one without giving up full control
2508 2014-02-26 21:17:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm
2509 2014-02-26 21:17:28 <jerseykx> from the users' perspective
2510 2014-02-26 21:17:30 <sipa> right, then it's more an escrow than an actual online wallet
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2512 2014-02-26 21:17:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does 04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38 have any special significance?
2513 2014-02-26 21:17:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or 04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef3804678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38)
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2515 2014-02-26 21:17:57 <jerseykx> michagogo|cloud: might be a public/private key?
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2517 2014-02-26 21:18:20 <jeremias> jerseykx: do you mean the blockchain.info model
2518 2014-02-26 21:18:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's the OP_RETURN test data in src/test/transaction_tests.cpp
2519 2014-02-26 21:18:28 <jeremias> or strongcoin.com
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2525 2014-02-26 21:19:13 <jerseykx> sipa: hm, sort of depends how you look at it. it's different use case - P2SH used for storing and securing funds as opposed to doing an escrow between parties
2526 2014-02-26 21:19:15 <gmaxwell> 04 suggests to me that it's a der encoded EC point.
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2528 2014-02-26 21:19:29 <RizeRuze> sipa: if ultimately you can take your money without the escrow service even being online (eventually at least) would it still make it escrow ?
2529 2014-02-26 21:19:38 <jerseykx> jeremias: more like bitgo.com
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2531 2014-02-26 21:19:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: Are those 80 bytes long?
2532 2014-02-26 21:19:59 <RizeRuze> s/make/call
2533 2014-02-26 21:20:17 <jerseykx> jeremias: without storing any users' private keys on the server, not even encrypted
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2556 2014-02-26 21:22:50 <jeremias> jerseykx: seems like a good project
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2558 2014-02-26 21:23:34 <jeremias> jerseykx: what kind of business model?
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2573 2014-02-26 21:25:48 <ajoul> Hello, is this a good place to ask for help related to bitcoining mining software?
2574 2014-02-26 21:26:09 <jerseykx> jeremias: we have various ideas, like small additional fees for transactions, or additional services like business support, or longer term offering some high volume APIs, possibly more interesting services. not sure about bitgo.com, it's a different project
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2579 2014-02-26 21:27:19 <jeremias> jerseykx: well, I don't know why you are here, it seems technically pretty simple, just like bitgo but with stand-alone client?
2580 2014-02-26 21:27:29 <jeremias> are there some technical problems?
2581 2014-02-26 21:27:41 <jeremias> or are you looking for devs?
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2600 2014-02-26 21:30:37 <jerseykx> jeremias: it's going to be a web wallet, no stand-alone client really. we're possibly interested in hiring devs to help us finish, also would be happy to hear any kind of feedback
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2604 2014-02-26 21:31:41 <jerseykx> jeremias: also some of our ideas are different from bitgo, so not exactly just like them ;)
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2608 2014-02-26 21:34:09 <jeremias> jerseykx: not much feedback from me, I welcome all new services to the bitcoin economy
2609 2014-02-26 21:34:20 <jeremias> seems like a good concept to me
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2626 2014-02-26 21:36:03 <jerseykx> jeremias: thanks :) if you're interested I can send you a link to our unfinished testnet site
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2677 2014-02-26 22:00:00 <joelsbeard> I am curious about the scripting of bitcoin transactions but I heard it isn't currently enabled. Is that true? And, does anyone know a good resource to learn about it?
2678 2014-02-26 22:00:16 <sipa> some features are disabled
2679 2014-02-26 22:00:24 <sipa> but every bitcoin transaction uses the script system
2680 2014-02-26 22:00:49 <Persopolis> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script
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2682 2014-02-26 22:01:10 <joelsbeard> disabled means not implemented in the clients?
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2686 2014-02-26 22:01:27 <joelsbeard> thanks, Persopolis
2687 2014-02-26 22:02:15 <sipa> joelsbeard: for all intents and purposes, you can read 'disables' as 'does not exist'
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2689 2014-02-26 22:02:52 <joelsbeard> sipa: so, it's just a proposal of how it could work at this point
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2691 2014-02-26 22:03:12 <sipa> no, it is how it was implemented once
2692 2014-02-26 22:03:14 <sipa> but removed
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2694 2014-02-26 22:03:22 <joelsbeard> ah
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2698 2014-02-26 22:05:24 <joelsbeard> Do you know if anything is enabled beyond the basic transaction?
2699 2014-02-26 22:05:57 <sipa> yes
2700 2014-02-26 22:06:04 <sipa> follow Persopolis's link
2701 2014-02-26 22:07:05 <joelsbeard> I'm looking at that now. Is all of this usable? I assumed some of this was disabled
2702 2014-02-26 22:07:45 <sipa> the disabled ones are marked in red
2703 2014-02-26 22:07:50 <Persopolis> the tables mark the ones that are disabled in red
2704 2014-02-26 22:08:19 <joelsbeard> I see, thank you
2705 2014-02-26 22:08:43 <gmaxwell> And by disabled you should just pretend its not on the page.
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2715 2014-02-26 22:13:43 <joelsbeard> Are there any interesting projects taking advantage of scripting?
2716 2014-02-26 22:14:07 <sipa> multisig
2717 2014-02-26 22:14:38 <Persopolis> escrow
2718 2014-02-26 22:15:37 <Persopolis> can't recall the gents name who was talking about escrow service yesterday
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2720 2014-02-26 22:15:43 <joelsbeard> That's pretty interesting
2721 2014-02-26 22:15:44 <shesek> joelsbeard, there's bitrated.com (I developed it)
2722 2014-02-26 22:16:02 <shesek> arbitration services with 2-of-3 multi signature transactions
2723 2014-02-26 22:16:35 <joelsbeard> shesek: Nice
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2731 2014-02-26 22:24:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|joelsbeard: there're the hash collision bounties
2732 2014-02-26 22:24:19 <TD> joelsbeard: there's one linked to from the bottom of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts
2733 2014-02-26 22:24:24 <TD> the multi-party lotteries
2734 2014-02-26 22:24:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google bitcoin hash collision bounty
2735 2014-02-26 22:24:32 <gribble> REWARD offered for hash collisions for SHA1, SHA256, RIPEMD160 and ...: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293382.0>; Bitcoin / Mailing Lists - SourceForge: <http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/31397880/>; SourceForge.net: Bitcoin:: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=31397880>
2736 2014-02-26 22:24:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That first link, I believe
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2738 2014-02-26 22:24:55 <joelsbeard> cool
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2760 2014-02-26 22:42:06 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: re: the janitor, why not run after every block?   ... seperately, I wonder if there would be a reasonable way to get a peer's times on their mempool, so that a fetch peer mempool on startup doesn't add an extra 72 hours.
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2769 2014-02-26 22:48:35 <jakov> shesek do you know anywhere to find a graph of tx to and from 2-of-3 multisig addresses?
2770 2014-02-26 22:48:40 <jakov> plotted against time
2771 2014-02-26 22:48:45 <jakov> like the graphs on blockchain.info
2772 2014-02-26 22:49:01 <jakov> would be great for seeing uptake in use
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2774 2014-02-26 22:49:42 <justanotheruser> jakov: I doubt such a graph exists
2775 2014-02-26 22:50:14 <jakov> ok
2776 2014-02-26 22:50:26 <jakov> maybe ill code it up if i get free time and download the blockchain
2777 2014-02-26 22:50:34 <justanotheruser> jakov: but you could probably make a small script that does that
2778 2014-02-26 22:51:21 <justanotheruser> jakov: If you end up doing that, good luck
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2791 2014-02-26 23:00:36 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, fair questions.  I'd ask you to recall thoughts about network-wide mempool behavior RE transaction lifetime/expiration.  the periodic janitor seemed to introduce useful noise into transaction lifetime, but maybe I'm just crazy.
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2793 2014-02-26 23:01:37 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, the janitor is an expensive operation, potentially holding a lock for "a while" in CPU-cycle terms.  didn't want to run it too often.
2794 2014-02-26 23:01:52 <jgarzik> after each block might be reasonable, though.
2795 2014-02-26 23:02:01 <gmaxwell> well it's similar to a createblock.
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2797 2014-02-26 23:02:16 <jgarzik> nod
2798 2014-02-26 23:02:27 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, createblock x2
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2801 2014-02-26 23:04:09 <num1> has anyone taken measurements of transaction propagation? How long does it usually take a transaction to reach most pools?
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2817 2014-02-26 23:13:39 <TD> num1: yes someone is. i forgot the ur
2818 2014-02-26 23:13:41 <TD> url
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2822 2014-02-26 23:14:46 <TD> ah here we are
2823 2014-02-26 23:14:47 <TD> http://bitcoinstats.com/network/propagation/
2824 2014-02-26 23:15:10 <TD> tx propagation seems to be pretty stable at 1.3 secs for 50% propagation
2825 2014-02-26 23:15:17 <TD> 90%th is a lot less stable
2826 2014-02-26 23:15:50 <num1> very nice, this is what I was looking for
2827 2014-02-26 23:15:51 <TD> it seems to be around 3 seconds though when things are "normal"
2828 2014-02-26 23:15:59 <TD> the long periods of 120 seconds are not something i can explain at the moment
2829 2014-02-26 23:16:02 <TD> bitcoin needs SREs
2830 2014-02-26 23:16:19 <num1> it'd be nice if he weighted the network by how much hash strength peers represent
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2836 2014-02-26 23:17:50 <num1> that is rather regular isn't it? Either 30secs or 120secs. wonder if it's an artifact of which nodes he's connecting to
2837 2014-02-26 23:18:20 <num1> do you know who runs it?
2838 2014-02-26 23:18:34 <num1> bitcoinstats.com
2839 2014-02-26 23:22:09 <TD> chris decker
2840 2014-02-26 23:22:20 <TD> there is no way to know how much "hash strength" a peer represents
2841 2014-02-26 23:22:23 <TD> that data is not published
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2844 2014-02-26 23:26:22 <num1> sure, but you can estimate it by which node relayed a block first
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2847 2014-02-26 23:27:41 <phantomcircuit> num1, that tells you exactly nothing
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2850 2014-02-26 23:28:05 <phantomcircuit> any pool worth shit is masking their realy origin
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2853 2014-02-26 23:28:29 <num1> yes the more I think about it the harder it seems
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2855 2014-02-26 23:29:25 <num1> phantomcircuit, is that true? What does that gain them?
2856 2014-02-26 23:30:53 <phantomcircuit> num1, a weak security boost
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2859 2014-02-26 23:31:52 <num1> phantomcircuit, that makes sense. So the idea is to not give attacks a big target, rather than to somehow prevent themselves from being conned out of money
2860 2014-02-26 23:32:18 <num1> attackers*
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