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  13 2014-02-27 00:08:19 <HM2> any projects out there for making talking to bitcoind easier?
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  17 2014-02-27 00:08:39 <HM2> i toyed with a json rpc -> apache thrift bridge last year but couldn't be arsed to finish it
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  19 2014-02-27 00:13:15 <Persopolis> HM2:  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)  lots of links in that page
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  58 2014-02-27 00:36:32 <jgarzik> Should the mempool janitor print out TX hashes removed?
  59 2014-02-27 00:36:44 nirvash0 has joined
  60 2014-02-27 00:36:49 * jgarzik is leaning towards yes
  61 2014-02-27 00:37:18 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: might be a kinda mild disk exhaustion dos attack. Certantly with debugging enabled.
  62 2014-02-27 00:38:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, I think right now LogPrint("mempool",...) should not log by default
  63 2014-02-27 00:39:35 <bitanarchy> what is the diff adjustment algo of dogecoin?
  64 2014-02-27 00:40:01 <gmaxwell> bitanarchy: Questions that don't belong in this channel.
  65 2014-02-27 00:41:06 <bitanarchy> well, doge has about the same hashing power as litecoin so I have to take a look at it 8D
  66 2014-02-27 00:42:29 <gmaxwell> Another subject which does not belong in this channel.
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  69 2014-02-27 00:43:25 <bitanarchy> ok, excuse me
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  93 2014-02-27 01:04:14 <Imbue> hello
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  95 2014-02-27 01:04:43 <Imbue> what is the significance of the target adjustment period (~2000 blocks)? why is it not lower?
  96 2014-02-27 01:04:52 <Imbue> rather why was 2000 chosen initially
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 118 2014-02-27 01:17:12 <Persopolis> Imbue - 2016 blocks @ avg 10mins is approx = 2 weeks
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 121 2014-02-27 01:18:30 <Persopolis> i believe the 2 weeks is the value chosen (suspect finger in the air) and 2016 calculated as ots equivalent
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 168 2014-02-27 01:53:49 <Imbue> Persepolis: I understand that it's about 2 weeks, but what's special about that?
 169 2014-02-27 01:54:19 <Imbue> a lower period would be preferred in case of hashpower loss
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 171 2014-02-27 01:54:38 <Imbue> but too low means that someone can attack by turning on a lot of hashpower for a short period?
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 173 2014-02-27 01:54:57 <tlrobinson_> gmaxwell: btw is "proof of reserves" an adequate shorter name for your "prove-how-(non)-fractional-your-Bitcoin-reserves-are" scheme?
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 176 2014-02-27 01:56:19 <gmaxwell> tlrobinson_: sounds fine to me.
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 212 2014-02-27 02:24:02 <jgarzik> does anybody have a Tor address that I can -addnode?
 213 2014-02-27 02:25:31 <dhill> sure
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 215 2014-02-27 02:26:02 <dhill> rfgkjihao2ymrr73.onion
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 227 2014-02-27 02:35:19 <dhill> that work for you?
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 244 2014-02-27 02:47:38 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: Yeah for sure.
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 271 2014-02-27 02:58:28 <cobordism> hello everyone
 272 2014-02-27 02:59:37 <cobordism> I've just come over from #mtgox-chat. I'm curious about the theory that MTGox lost their coins due to an EC bug in their custom wallet software.
 273 2014-02-27 02:59:51 <cobordism> also floated here: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/somethings-not-right-at-gox/
 274 2014-02-27 03:00:16 <cobordism> I was wondering if someone here could explain the idea to me a little better.
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 278 2014-02-27 03:01:03 <kadoban> cobordism: guessing what bugs could exist in software that nobody-who's-talking has seen seems a little pointless
 279 2014-02-27 03:01:07 <cobordism> I know transactions are signed using elliptic curve cryptography and that a receiving bitcoin address is essentially a public key to a private key.
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 281 2014-02-27 03:01:24 <cobordism> kadoban,  I just wanted to understand what the suggestion was
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 284 2014-02-27 03:03:52 <cobordism> am I right in thinking: the suggestion/speculation is that they implemented the cryptography wrong, and that they then, subsequently,  transferred coins to an address that they thought they had the keys to but didn't?
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 289 2014-02-27 03:09:00 <olalonde> Any core devs here https://github.com/olalonde/blind-solvency-proof? would it be OK for me to write a BIP for ? Would be interesting to standardize at least the verification algorithm and the data format for publishing trees / root node
 290 2014-02-27 03:09:10 <olalonde> oops
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 294 2014-02-27 03:15:42 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: you don't need permission
 295 2014-02-27 03:15:53 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: write it up, send a draft to the dev ML, and ask for a BIP to be assigned
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 297 2014-02-27 03:16:32 <gmaxwell> olalonde: make sure you specify it in a way that someone not coding in JS could be compatible. (e.g. don't have hidden serialization behavior)
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 300 2014-02-27 03:19:06 <viic> cobordism: I think the main point is that it seems impossible that Gox had 750k btc stolen via the malleability attacks, as their story goes ... but more likely they have lost access to their coins via key mismanagement or bugged software ... there are a few theories about the nature of such a bug and one of them involves a failure of deterministic wallet software, among others
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 304 2014-02-27 03:21:48 <cobordism> yes. I understand that. nobody believes that malleability could lead to 700k stolen (and certainly not unnoticed)
 305 2014-02-27 03:21:57 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: gmaxwell: ok thanks
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 327 2014-02-27 03:39:30 <olalonde> gmaxwell: I like your nonce idea but wouldn't it be simpler instead of always assigning a "dummy" user with balance 0 and some random hash as the neighboor to real users?
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 329 2014-02-27 03:40:36 <olalonde> gmaxwell: that way your hash would simply be your plaintext username and it would be easier to verify that you are given a unique tree
 330 2014-02-27 03:40:43 <gmaxwell> thats just a nonce too.
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 332 2014-02-27 03:40:55 <gmaxwell> How would it be easier to verify that you are given a unique tree??
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 337 2014-02-27 03:42:31 <olalonde> Hmm right
 338 2014-02-27 03:43:02 <olalonde> I'm just thinking it would simplify the data format if we want it to be standard
 339 2014-02-27 03:43:10 <gmaxwell> I think it's effectively the same thing, maybe it makes the implementation cleaner to do it one way vs another, though you double the size of the tree. and perhaps complicate a smarter encoder. but I think it's really the same, basically your penultimate node is the real leaf with just a funny encoding.
 340 2014-02-27 03:43:32 Namworld has quit ()
 341 2014-02-27 03:43:39 <olalonde> right
 342 2014-02-27 03:44:18 <gmaxwell> Would it?  You define a leaf as H(username,value,nonce),value  and then its just an ordinary tree with no must be 0 neighbor constraint.
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 345 2014-02-27 03:45:31 <olalonde> yeah i think i might go with that idea
 346 2014-02-27 03:46:05 <olalonde> then when the verifier could still display your username , balance if the tree is in a standard data format with the 3 values clearly identified
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 350 2014-02-27 03:47:26 <olalonde> how big should the nonce be to be reasonably secure against someone trying to bruteforce the hash with known usernames for example?
 351 2014-02-27 03:47:30 <gmaxwell> olalonde: to complicate your life slightly, someone suggested that it might be useful if you could also publish all the user proofs so they could be archived. e.g. useful to catch if your balance was temporarily stolen but then returned.  So one way to achieve that is to just encrypt the whole users proof... then you could publish everything too, so someone may want to add that to the bip. I'm still mulling how useful that is... though ...
 352 2014-02-27 03:47:36 <gmaxwell> ... it would just be an on-top-of thing and the scheme wouldn't otherwise change.
 353 2014-02-27 03:48:06 <olalonde> ah that's interesting
 354 2014-02-27 03:48:09 <gmaxwell> olalonde: I think you don't have to specify it, though I'd use 128 bits sort of by default.
 355 2014-02-27 03:49:04 <olalonde> so you publish the proof tree in encrypted format and you publish your key if someone wants to audit you or something like that?
 356 2014-02-27 03:49:42 <olalonde> ah I see what you mean
 357 2014-02-27 03:49:57 <olalonde> each user should have an archive of their proofs .. for every day in the past 30 days for example?
 358 2014-02-27 03:51:40 <olalonde> for now, i will work on the nonce issue
 359 2014-02-27 03:53:43 <olalonde> and write some test :)
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 390 2014-02-27 04:25:20 <catcow> is it possible for the 0.8.5-beta client to generate an invalid address?
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 427 2014-02-27 05:04:36 <gmaxwell> catcow: generate how? invalid how? and regardless— the answer is almost certantly no.
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 429 2014-02-27 05:06:43 <catcow> well, i generated a new address in the client, copied it, pasted it to a friend, and he tried to send btc to it, and it failed the crc check
 430 2014-02-27 05:06:47 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 431 2014-02-27 05:07:02 <catcow> we both double checked ourselves, still didn't work
 432 2014-02-27 05:07:14 <catcow> i then gave him an older address i had used, and it worked fine
 433 2014-02-27 05:07:17 johnsoft has joined
 434 2014-02-27 05:07:41 <catcow> but yea, i thought that would be the answer--a certain no--i just can't figure out where we went wrong...
 435 2014-02-27 05:07:54 <gmaxwell> catcow: missed the last character in the copy and paste?
 436 2014-02-27 05:08:20 <catcow> nope, i used the copy button instead of highlighting all the text, also checked it visually a couple times
 437 2014-02-27 05:08:40 <catcow> i always note the first few chars and the last few chars when doing this to make sure nothing got chopped off
 438 2014-02-27 05:08:48 <catcow> i wonder if my client is compromised somehow...
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 443 2014-02-27 05:11:50 <gmaxwell> well do you still have what you sent? you can ask your client to verify it for you.
 444 2014-02-27 05:11:53 <gmaxwell> \
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 446 2014-02-27 05:12:09 <gmaxwell> e.g. open up the console and run validateaddress <Address>
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 449 2014-02-27 05:14:13 <nezZario> I'm just being nosey .. are you a dev andytoshi ?
 450 2014-02-27 05:15:48 Benjami__ has joined
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 452 2014-02-27 05:16:01 <andytoshi> nezZario: not really, no
 453 2014-02-27 05:16:15 aegis has quit (Excess Flood)
 454 2014-02-27 05:16:17 <andytoshi> nezZario: i know the code reasonably well, i have one commit
 455 2014-02-27 05:16:19 <catcow> gmaxwell, checks okay when i do that. i'm off to bed, will troubleshoot more tomorrow. thanks for your help.
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 462 2014-02-27 05:23:29 <nezZario> andytoshi: well that's better than zero... sorry to be nosey .. just curious
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 473 2014-02-27 05:28:22 <andytoshi> nezZario: lol, that's fine, i pretend to be an authority on bitcoin often enough
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 480 2014-02-27 05:35:24 <jgarzik> usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o): In function `dlfcn_globallookup':
 481 2014-02-27 05:35:24 <jgarzik> (.text+0x19): undefined reference to `dlopen'
 482 2014-02-27 05:35:24 <jgarzik> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o): In function `dlfcn_globallookup':
 483 2014-02-27 05:35:24 <jgarzik> (.text+0x2c): undefined reference to `dlsym'
 484 2014-02-27 05:35:24 <jgarzik> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o): In function `dlfcn_globallookup':
 485 2014-02-27 05:35:25 <jgarzik> (.text+0x37): undefined reference to `dlclose'
 486 2014-02-27 05:35:54 <jgarzik> That's annoying.  I cannot build bitcoind with -static, due to libcrypto.  Everything else is happy, symbol-wise.
 487 2014-02-27 05:36:06 hobs has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 488 2014-02-27 05:36:09 <andytoshi> jgarzik: you can add -ldl to your LDFLAGS, i find i need to do that when compiling against my /usr/local ssl
 489 2014-02-27 05:36:17 <andytoshi> oh, i see
 490 2014-02-27 05:38:11 justusranvier has joined
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 492 2014-02-27 05:39:56 <jgarzik> poe@boundary:~/repo/bitcoin/src$ ls -l bitcoind
 493 2014-02-27 05:39:57 <jgarzik> -rwxr-xr-x 1 poe poe 6507576 Feb 27 05:39 bitcoind
 494 2014-02-27 05:39:57 <jgarzik> poe@boundary:~/repo/bitcoin/src$ ldd bitcoind
 495 2014-02-27 05:39:57 <jgarzik> 	not a dynamic executable
 496 2014-02-27 05:40:20 <jgarzik> after a bit of manual fiddling
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 570 2014-02-27 06:47:06 <wumpus> another way is to build openssl without dl support (that's what we do in gitian)
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 613 2014-02-27 07:27:41 <shaileshg> Hi, i m running bitcoind client using command line option -datadir=/data
 614 2014-02-27 07:27:46 <shaileshg> $ bitcoind -datadir=/data/
 615 2014-02-27 07:27:59 <shaileshg> however, it is giving me following error:
 616 2014-02-27 07:28:03 <shaileshg> EXCEPTION: N5boost12interprocess22interprocess_exceptionE
 617 2014-02-27 07:28:03 <shaileshg> No such file or directory
 618 2014-02-27 07:28:03 <shaileshg> bitcoin in AppInit()
 619 2014-02-27 07:28:09 <shaileshg> any idea why?
 620 2014-02-27 07:28:46 <shaileshg> oh wait.. it might be coz of libprotobuf-dev
 621 2014-02-27 07:28:49 <shaileshg> let me try
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 637 2014-02-27 07:46:11 <wumpus> what version of bitcoind?
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 639 2014-02-27 07:46:29 <wumpus> we haven't used boost::interprocess for ages
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 645 2014-02-27 07:47:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|inb43.24
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 658 2014-02-27 07:58:53 <shaileshg> wumpus: 80600
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 661 2014-02-27 08:02:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shaileshg: where from?
 662 2014-02-27 08:02:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Release binaries, ppa, self built?
 663 2014-02-27 08:02:59 <shaileshg> ppa
 664 2014-02-27 08:03:29 <shaileshg> michagogo|cloud: still not solved
 665 2014-02-27 08:03:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shaileshg: protobuf probably has nothing to do with it
 666 2014-02-27 08:04:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|0.8.6 doesn't use protobuf, that's in master for the payment protocol
 667 2014-02-27 08:04:16 <shaileshg> michagogo|cloud: hmm. does bdb has to do anything with it?
 668 2014-02-27 08:04:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shaileshg: idk
 669 2014-02-27 08:05:52 <wumpus> 0.8.6 certainly doesn't use boost interprocess
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 672 2014-02-27 08:06:20 <wumpus> do you maybe have some conflicting old version around?
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 674 2014-02-27 08:06:44 <shaileshg> wumpus: i don't think so.. can i confirm it anyhow.. m on ubuntu
 675 2014-02-27 08:06:59 <wumpus> bitcoind -help ?
 676 2014-02-27 08:07:20 <shaileshg> Bitcoin server starting..
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 680 2014-02-27 08:07:47 <wumpus> --help, sorry
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 682 2014-02-27 08:08:39 <wumpus> lol, -- as well as - is supported for all arguments except help
 683 2014-02-27 08:08:53 <wumpus> I get it wrong every single time
 684 2014-02-27 08:09:44 <shaileshg> wumpus: no conflicting version around..
 685 2014-02-27 08:10:03 <shaileshg> Also, $ bitcoind -datadir=/data/ is the right way to tell path to data directory.. right?
 686 2014-02-27 08:10:09 <wumpus> find / -name bitcoind    ...
 687 2014-02-27 08:10:15 <shaileshg> i have .conf file in .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 688 2014-02-27 08:10:30 <wumpus> yes that is the right way to tell the data directory
 689 2014-02-27 08:10:51 <wumpus> it won't use the conf file in ~/.bitcoin if you specify another data directory
 690 2014-02-27 08:10:59 <wumpus> but the conf file in that directory
 691 2014-02-27 08:11:27 <shaileshg> wumpus: oh
 692 2014-02-27 08:11:47 <wumpus> you can, though, use -conf to specify using another configuration file
 693 2014-02-27 08:11:55 <shaileshg> so .bitcoin/ would not be used at all? kinda useless then
 694 2014-02-27 08:12:07 <wumpus> that's the point of -datadir
 695 2014-02-27 08:12:09 <shaileshg> output of find / ...
 696 2014-02-27 08:12:26 <shaileshg> etc/bash_completion.d/bitcoind
 697 2014-02-27 08:12:26 <shaileshg> usr/bin/bitcoind
 698 2014-02-27 08:12:26 <shaileshg> usr/share/doc/bitcoind
 699 2014-02-27 08:12:26 <shaileshg> usr/share/lintian/overrides/bitcoind
 700 2014-02-27 08:12:46 <wumpus> heh.
 701 2014-02-27 08:13:05 <shaileshg> ?
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 703 2014-02-27 08:13:43 <shaileshg> looks like there is no other version around..
 704 2014-02-27 08:13:45 <wumpus> no,  it's funny that those distribution packages create links everwhere, but looks ok
 705 2014-02-27 08:14:05 <shaileshg> heh..
 706 2014-02-27 08:14:25 <wumpus> I really, really don't understand why you would get a boost interprocess error
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 708 2014-02-27 08:14:44 <shaileshg> or could try going with making from source
 709 2014-02-27 08:14:55 <wumpus> oh. we use it for the file_lock on the data directory
 710 2014-02-27 08:15:08 <wumpus> shaileshg: not necessary
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 712 2014-02-27 08:15:29 <shaileshg> wumpus: there was a issues raised here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3487
 713 2014-02-27 08:16:25 <wumpus> are you pointing the datadir somewhere that doesn't exist or is not accessible?
 714 2014-02-27 08:18:25 <shaileshg> i attached an ebs volume on aws.. mounted it to /data and pointing datadir to /data
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 716 2014-02-27 08:18:35 <shaileshg> haven't created any folder in datadir
 717 2014-02-27 08:19:07 <wumpus> that's ok, you don't need to create a folder in your datadir
 718 2014-02-27 08:19:22 <shaileshg> can go to /data location.. so i don't think its not accessible..
 719 2014-02-27 08:19:44 <wumpus> so my hypothesis is: boost_interprocess cannot create a datadir lock file on your fancy file system
 720 2014-02-27 08:19:59 <shaileshg> file system: ext4
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 722 2014-02-27 08:20:33 <wumpus> right...
 723 2014-02-27 08:20:41 <wumpus> you can create files in that directory?
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 725 2014-02-27 08:21:45 <wumpus> I don't how the boost::interprocess::lock works internally, my guess it that it just creates a file and uses flock() on it
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 727 2014-02-27 08:22:17 <shaileshg> oh god.. can't create file / directory on that
 728 2014-02-27 08:22:23 <shaileshg> need to fix it first
 729 2014-02-27 08:22:49 <shaileshg> permission denied.. let me fix it and report then
 730 2014-02-27 08:22:50 <shaileshg> :)
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 736 2014-02-27 08:26:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shaileshg: *jamie hyneman voice* Well THERE'S your problem!
 737 2014-02-27 08:27:14 <shaileshg> wumpus: yeah. That was the issue.
 738 2014-02-27 08:27:19 <shaileshg> michagogo|cloud: :)
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 740 2014-02-27 08:28:01 <shaileshg> srsly.. didn't occurred to me to check permission to the newly mounted disk
 741 2014-02-27 08:31:38 <olalonde> gmaxwell: do you think it would be interesting to include a timestamp in the leaf nodes?
 742 2014-02-27 08:31:50 <shaileshg> wumpus: now i m running bitcoind with -datadir=/data, but querying for getblockcount etc is throwing me error saying it can't find bitcoin.conf file in ~/.bitcoin path..
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 744 2014-02-27 08:32:02 <olalonde> gmaxwell: that way the user could verify when is balance was read from the database
 745 2014-02-27 08:32:07 <shaileshg> error: You must set rpcpassword=<password> in the configuration file:
 746 2014-02-27 08:32:07 <shaileshg> /home/ubuntu/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 747 2014-02-27 08:32:12 <wumpus> you also need to specify the -datadir when you send commands
 748 2014-02-27 08:32:25 <wumpus> otherwise it doesn't know what instance of bitcoind you want to send commands to
 749 2014-02-27 08:32:51 <shaileshg> hmm..
 750 2014-02-27 08:33:33 <wumpus> (or as said, you can use -conf to use an alternative configuration file that is not in your datadir)
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 759 2014-02-27 08:37:51 <shaileshg> wumpus: right
 760 2014-02-27 08:37:58 <shaileshg> hmm
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 879 2014-02-27 10:24:36 <dexX7_> from the script wiki entry: "Due to a bug, one extra unused value is removed from the stack." for OP_CHECKMULTISIG.. is this the reason why a multisig input scriptsig looks like: 00 + push 71-73 byte + signature? and 00 is used as workaround for this "bug"?
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 881 2014-02-27 10:27:52 <TD> yeah
 882 2014-02-27 10:28:47 <dexX7_> ah nice, thanks
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 947 2014-02-27 11:42:28 <anton000> hey guys... have a little question in  scriptpubkey:   OP_DUP OP_HASH160 <pubKeyHash> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG
 948 2014-02-27 11:43:37 <anton000> y is pubkeyhash =  ripemd160(sha256(pub key)) ?
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 955 2014-02-27 11:47:25 <embicoin> is the custom -walletpath commit integrated on the newest master client?
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 959 2014-02-27 11:51:58 <wumpus> embicoin: no, there is no walletpath commit
 960 2014-02-27 11:52:15 <wumpus> there is a -wallet=... argument but you can use it only to specify wallets inside the datadir
 961 2014-02-27 11:52:53 <embicoin> wumpus: ok, thanks, just saw what old-c-programmer did hehe
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 968 2014-02-27 12:03:07 <wumpus> walletpath would be possible, but was not yet implemented, there are some practical issues, most people would like to wait with that until BerkeleyDB is no longer used
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 975 2014-02-27 12:07:17 <embicoin> wumpus: I agree with tat
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 991 2014-02-27 12:26:27 * uiop performs his recurring endorsement of sqlite
 992 2014-02-27 12:28:56 <embicoin> Maybe I am wrong but I find that nosql would fit better for the client needs...
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 996 2014-02-27 12:30:42 <embicoin> the problem now is that wallet.dat is strongly tied with old bdb versions ...
 997 2014-02-27 12:30:54 <sipa> bdb is nosql-avant-la-lettre
 998 2014-02-27 12:31:10 <sipa> it's just a key-value store
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1000 2014-02-27 12:33:18 <Apocalyptic> avant la lettre ?
1001 2014-02-27 12:33:54 <sipa> "before that term existed"
1002 2014-02-27 12:34:30 <Apocalyptic> oh I see
1003 2014-02-27 12:34:33 wallet42 has joined
1004 2014-02-27 12:34:43 <embicoin> wow then you mean that I am completely wrong? :P
1005 2014-02-27 12:35:07 KillYourTV has joined
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1007 2014-02-27 12:35:38 <sipa> no, i fully agree that nosql is the better choice here, but that has nothing to do with bdb or not (where i also fully agree that having a database layer that has poor compatibility features is a bad choice)
1008 2014-02-27 12:35:48 CodeShark has joined
1009 2014-02-27 12:36:41 <sipa> embicoin: we've been wanting to replace bdb for the wallet with a custom simple append-only key-value format
1010 2014-02-27 12:37:00 <embicoin> ok thanks :D I just started with the insides of the client so I am very noob :P
1011 2014-02-27 12:40:21 <embicoin> Another naive thought Is that satoshi liked those deps cos they were familiar to him, but he was not analysing the optimal needs at all, obviously he also couldn't measure the current size of project
1012 2014-02-27 12:40:57 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1013 2014-02-27 12:41:09 <wumpus> uiop: sqlite would have been better then berkelydb (at least it can be embedded easily), but we don't need a fully fangled database for the wallet at all
1014 2014-02-27 12:42:54 ThomasV has joined
1015 2014-02-27 12:43:05 <embicoin> well, I suppose we are still on early development stage so big improvements are coming I guess :P
1016 2014-02-27 12:43:07 Traubert has joined
1017 2014-02-27 12:43:34 <sipa> embicoin: yeah, pretty sure satoshi just used what he knew
1018 2014-02-27 12:43:37 <CodeShark> how far along is BIP0032 integration with Bitcoin-Qt?
1019 2014-02-27 12:43:52 <sipa> i have a branch with most of it done
1020 2014-02-27 12:43:57 <CodeShark> and is the plan to scrap the current random key generation scheme altogether?
1021 2014-02-27 12:44:12 <sipa> certainly off by default
1022 2014-02-27 12:44:24 Datavetaren has joined
1023 2014-02-27 12:44:31 <CodeShark> are there any plans for making use of the hierarchical features?
1024 2014-02-27 12:44:53 <sipa> change addresses and public addresses separately, yes
1025 2014-02-27 12:45:02 <sipa> separate accounts, maybe later
1026 2014-02-27 12:45:34 <sipa> the accounts will be more for "i need a specific chain for specific use X"
1027 2014-02-27 12:45:41 <sipa> recurring payments or something
1028 2014-02-27 12:45:46 <sipa> or to put on a webserver
1029 2014-02-27 12:46:00 <CodeShark> right
1030 2014-02-27 12:46:07 <sipa> not really for sub-wallets
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1032 2014-02-27 12:46:19 <sipa> (which should just be separate wallets)
1033 2014-02-27 12:46:59 <CodeShark> separate wallets could still be stored in a single file
1034 2014-02-27 12:47:06 <CodeShark> and loaded all concurrently
1035 2014-02-27 12:47:09 <sipa> true
1036 2014-02-27 12:47:11 johnsoft has joined
1037 2014-02-27 12:47:54 <CodeShark> I'm working on improving usability for account management
1038 2014-02-27 12:48:05 <CodeShark> that's actually probably my #1 project for the next week or two
1039 2014-02-27 12:48:42 <Traubert> I'm trying to build the github master on debian wheezy with libboost1.49-dev installed, and am running into: checking for exit in -lboost_system... no; configure: error: Could not link against boost_system !
1040 2014-02-27 12:49:21 <CodeShark> Traubert: first check whether libboost_system.a or libboost_system.so are on your system
1041 2014-02-27 12:49:34 <CodeShark> second make sure they are in the libpath
1042 2014-02-27 12:49:45 <sipa> the name may be different
1043 2014-02-27 12:49:46 <CodeShark> third make sure they are the same version as the headers in your include path
1044 2014-02-27 12:50:00 <sipa> config.log may have more information
1045 2014-02-27 12:50:27 <Traubert> good point, looks like I don't have anything boost-related in /lib at all, just the headers
1046 2014-02-27 12:50:52 <sipa> /lib is for system libraries
1047 2014-02-27 12:50:54 <sipa> check /usr/lib
1048 2014-02-27 12:51:02 <CodeShark> or /usr/local/lib
1049 2014-02-27 12:51:03 <Traubert> I meant /usr/lib
1050 2014-02-27 12:51:26 <Traubert> looks like the debian packaged for the actual libs are libboost-*
1051 2014-02-27 12:51:30 <Traubert> *packages
1052 2014-02-27 12:51:42 <Traubert> thanks
1053 2014-02-27 12:51:46 <CodeShark> np :)
1054 2014-02-27 12:53:23 pierreatwork has joined
1055 2014-02-27 12:53:42 <CodeShark> sipa: any plans for multisig stuff in Bitcoin-Qt?
1056 2014-02-27 12:54:05 <sipa> CodeShark: that'd be mostly UI stuff
1057 2014-02-27 12:54:14 * sipa doesn't know anything about that
1058 2014-02-27 12:54:41 <CodeShark> well, not necessarily - you could also have a headless API wallet
1059 2014-02-27 12:55:08 <sipa> anyway, i haven't spent time on that, and don't plan to
1060 2014-02-27 12:56:16 <CodeShark> one thing I haven't really looked into too much, which I really should, is using secure buffers for private keys
1061 2014-02-27 12:57:16 <CodeShark> if you allocate an std::vector<unsigned char> and make sure to zero it before freeing it, will that guarantee that at least the memory location no longer contains any trace of the data?
1062 2014-02-27 12:57:52 <CodeShark> I mean, I suppose the rte could move the buffer around or do disk swaps and such
1063 2014-02-27 12:58:46 <CodeShark> and it's really entirely up to the OS whether or not disk swaps or other processes somehow get access to that data
1064 2014-02-27 12:59:09 buhbuh has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1065 2014-02-27 13:00:11 <CodeShark> so I guess the question is how paranoid should we be about this? and how much effort is it worth to try to secure the buffer?
1066 2014-02-27 13:00:26 <CodeShark> of course, ideally I'd like all signing to take place on dedicated hardware
1067 2014-02-27 13:01:55 <sipa> we use a custom allocator
1068 2014-02-27 13:02:02 <sipa> to wipe memory after freeing
1069 2014-02-27 13:02:18 <sipa> and in some cases, to lock the memory pages they are in
1070 2014-02-27 13:02:49 <sipa> that's certainly not water tight though
1071 2014-02-27 13:03:04 <CodeShark> right, I'm wondering how much effort this is really worth
1072 2014-02-27 13:03:17 CheckDavid has joined
1073 2014-02-27 13:03:24 <CodeShark> if someone has sufficient access to your machine to be able to exploit these things, chances are they can attack far simpler targets
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1075 2014-02-27 13:04:18 <CodeShark> keystrokes, bash history, etc...
1076 2014-02-27 13:04:26 <sipa> yeah
1077 2014-02-27 13:04:55 <sipa> and the zeroing/locking only happens for real key material, not for data passed through the UI for example
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1082 2014-02-27 13:07:06 <CodeShark> at the very least it's probably a good idea to zero the buffer before freeing, I suppose
1083 2014-02-27 13:08:19 <CodeShark> oh well, I'll take a look at the custom allocators in bitcoind
1084 2014-02-27 13:09:28 airq has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1085 2014-02-27 13:09:31 <CodeShark> does OPENSSL_cleanse do anything beyond just zeroing the buffer?
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1093 2014-02-27 13:11:22 <CodeShark> oh, I suppose OPENSSL maintains its own heap pool
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1098 2014-02-27 13:15:42 <olalonde> gmaxwell: wrote a Chrome extension for verification
1099 2014-02-27 13:15:53 platoscave has joined
1100 2014-02-27 13:16:05 <olalonde> gmaxwell: https://github.com/olalonde/blproof-extension
1101 2014-02-27 13:16:23 <olalonde> gmaxwell: and working with a gambling site to implement the scheme
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1119 2014-02-27 13:42:55 <dexX7_> how long does it take until unconfirmed transactions vanish?
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1123 2014-02-27 13:46:35 <wallet42> dexX7_: they dont
1124 2014-02-27 13:46:45 <Esya> Guys, got a bit of a nasty debian problem right now
1125 2014-02-27 13:46:52 <Esya> It's a network configuration issue
1126 2014-02-27 13:47:03 <Esya> I'm willing to give a 0.25btc bounty to anyone who has the solution
1127 2014-02-27 13:47:08 <Esya> If anyone is interested let me know
1128 2014-02-27 13:47:09 <wallet42> dexX7_: only possibility is that it becomes invalid, if another TX gets mined that spents an input from the old one
1129 2014-02-27 13:47:20 <dexX7_> wallet42: ?? can't be. i'm specificly talking about transactions with not enough fee.
1130 2014-02-27 13:48:06 <wallet42> dexX7_: not enough relay fee => it will not broadcast trough the network
1131 2014-02-27 13:48:06 <dexX7_> and i'm unable to spend the inputs otherwise. all such transactions are rejected, not only by my client, but also if issued via blockchain.info/eligius push tx
1132 2014-02-27 13:48:41 <dexX7_> the attached fee was 0.0000072 BTC
1133 2014-02-27 13:48:41 AusBitBank_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1134 2014-02-27 13:48:56 <wallet42> you only can wait
1135 2014-02-27 13:49:13 <dexX7_> how long?
1136 2014-02-27 13:49:23 <dexX7_> you said "they vanish never"
1137 2014-02-27 13:49:41 <wallet42> no but eventually the priority is high enough
1138 2014-02-27 13:49:51 dgenr8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1139 2014-02-27 13:49:57 <wallet42> and it will be mined within  the "free tier"
1140 2014-02-27 13:50:06 dgenr8 has joined
1141 2014-02-27 13:50:53 <wallet42> you might increase the priority, if you control one output and send it to another address with a higher fee attached.
1142 2014-02-27 13:51:05 <wallet42> but im not sure if that always works
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1144 2014-02-27 13:51:27 <dexX7_> as said, such try is rejected
1145 2014-02-27 13:51:55 <wallet42> txid?
1146 2014-02-27 13:52:41 <dexX7_> https://blockchain.info/tx/1bcfc1ce94211b4d2eb119a8f9faba77db94cbb9549eed235250d450a3e9fae8
1147 2014-02-27 13:53:29 <wallet42> do you control any outputs?
1148 2014-02-27 13:53:49 <dexX7_> this is the first one.. i have a long chain of transactions, all based on the others before. handcrafted and send via sendrawtransaction
1149 2014-02-27 13:53:50 <dexX7_> yes
1150 2014-02-27 13:54:21 <wallet42> use one output and some other coins to create a followup transaction
1151 2014-02-27 13:54:58 <dexX7_> sec
1152 2014-02-27 13:55:02 <wallet42> add enough fee to pay for all
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1154 2014-02-27 13:55:07 <wallet42> previous transactions
1155 2014-02-27 13:55:25 <dexX7_> should i use the last tx in the chain or the first one which is unconfirmed?
1156 2014-02-27 13:56:04 <wallet42> the last unconfirmed
1157 2014-02-27 13:56:15 <wallet42> and add MORE fee to that
1158 2014-02-27 13:56:21 <wallet42> so it compensates for both
1159 2014-02-27 13:56:44 <wallet42> the miner can get the fee for that one only, if he also mines the other one obviously
1160 2014-02-27 13:56:56 <dexX7_> sec, i'll try that
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1162 2014-02-27 13:57:25 <wallet42> the miner will be happy if all txes get into one block, and he gets 0.1 millibit per 1000 bytes per transaction
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1169 2014-02-27 13:59:34 <andytoshi> wallet42: have you heard of this working? i thought miners were not so clever
1170 2014-02-27 13:59:56 <wallet42> i'm not sure but its worth a try ;)
1171 2014-02-27 14:00:09 <andytoshi> :P ok, it'd be wonderful if it does work
1172 2014-02-27 14:00:21 <wallet42> yeah me too :P
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1174 2014-02-27 14:01:33 <wallet42> i think the follow up tx will have a high priority, so the miner will try to mine it, but he cant if he doesnt mine both
1175 2014-02-27 14:01:54 <dexX7_> hmmm
1176 2014-02-27 14:02:13 <dexX7_> unable to sign. and getrawtransaction txid returns: No information available about transaction (code -5)
1177 2014-02-27 14:02:22 <dexX7_> it's still shown in the "transactions" tab though
1178 2014-02-27 14:02:46 <NieSpieBoKopie> Hello fellas. I've got these errors while compiling linux wallet. Any ideas how to fix it?
1179 2014-02-27 14:02:47 <NieSpieBoKopie> http://pastebin.com/wSGHga9L
1180 2014-02-27 14:03:10 <wallet42> has the hash changed?
1181 2014-02-27 14:03:46 pierreatwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1182 2014-02-27 14:03:49 <sipa> dexX7_: do you have -txindex enabled?
1183 2014-02-27 14:03:59 dgenr8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1184 2014-02-27 14:04:08 <dexX7_> yes, i have
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1187 2014-02-27 14:04:44 <sipa> that must mean the transaction conflicts with the chain
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1189 2014-02-27 14:05:05 <wallet42> well i can to getrawtx on that one
1190 2014-02-27 14:05:08 <wallet42> on my bitcoind
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1193 2014-02-27 14:05:38 <sipa> getrawtransaction queries the mempool and the blockchain
1194 2014-02-27 14:05:44 <sipa> gettransaction queries the wallet
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1196 2014-02-27 14:06:22 <wallet42> bitcoind getrawmempool | grep 1bcfc1ce94211b4d2eb119a8f9faba77db94cbb9549eed235250d450a3e9fae8
1197 2014-02-27 14:06:22 <wallet42>     "1bcfc1ce94211b4d2eb119a8f9faba77db94cbb9549eed235250d450a3e9fae8",
1198 2014-02-27 14:06:40 <dexX7_> the first unconfirmed tx was still "available". i used this one as input and it was sent
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1200 2014-02-27 14:07:10 <sipa> in 0.9, gettransaction will also report the raw transaction in hex
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1202 2014-02-27 14:07:12 <dexX7_> yea, 1bc is the first one
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1207 2014-02-27 14:07:45 <dexX7_> 761bdab1a451d645bf445043f1638abb164856bf05a2a9d658ce2582955161c2 was the last in chain
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1210 2014-02-27 14:08:00 <olalonde> does signmessage reveal the public key?
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1214 2014-02-27 14:09:19 <dexX7_> message + signature does
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1218 2014-02-27 14:11:02 <NieSpieBoKopie> Hello. Any ideas to fix these json errors? http://pastebin.com/JGjzXpux I can give some btc for helper.
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1222 2014-02-27 14:14:29 <olalonde> is there an online utility to do signmessages?
1223 2014-02-27 14:14:32 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1225 2014-02-27 14:15:09 <dexX7_> www.brainwallet.org
1226 2014-02-27 14:15:23 <olalonde> dexX7_: thanks
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1229 2014-02-27 14:16:21 <olalonde> dexX7_: there's no "bitcoin-qt" signature type.. .any reason why? isnt that stuff standardized?
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1232 2014-02-27 14:17:48 <dexX7_> bitcoin-qt displayes and uses simply the signature. that's the line below the one with the address and on top of "-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----"
1233 2014-02-27 14:17:49 <olalonde> dexX7_: does sign message leak the public key?
1234 2014-02-27 14:17:59 <olalonde> ok
1235 2014-02-27 14:18:26 <dexX7_> if someone has the message and signature, then yes
1236 2014-02-27 14:18:44 <olalonde> ok
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1242 2014-02-27 14:22:01 <dexX7_> well hm. i pushed the tx earlier locally and with blockchain.info. it's not found by bitcoind on another machine. not via gettransaction nor getrawmempool. https://blockchain.info/tx/1eccfa81f73ef06d3336f078bd31ac03198e928f6add1a07a08e0b344d599615
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1263 2014-02-27 14:40:13 <NieSpieBoKopie> I OFFER BTC BOUNTY FOR FIX THIS ERROR: http://pastebin.com/wSGHga9L
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1280 2014-02-27 14:50:41 <dexX7_> looks like it worked (7926bb2ba3dffa14586bc8c9cfc88432025c32e8e61a1c4eb34eed3286c7e631). one machine still returns a result for a tx that now should be invalid at the same time it also shows this one, but i guess as long as the tx is confirmed, all related low fee tx should be definitely invalid now. thanks wallet42
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1282 2014-02-27 14:51:19 <Joric> NieSpieBoKopie, call BasicValue( uint64_t value );
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1290 2014-02-27 14:56:47 <andytoshi> in fairness, the message+signature only gives you the public key if the signature is valid
1291 2014-02-27 14:57:06 <andytoshi> otherwise it will give you a different public key, if everything else is well-formed you cannot make the distinction
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1380 2014-02-27 15:52:25 <OperatorSyn> Anyone here?
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1382 2014-02-27 15:52:32 <OperatorSyn> was BitcoinTalk ever called BitcoinForums
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1391 2014-02-27 15:56:22 <jgarzik> InsiderJoe, yes and no.  bitcointalk.org was originally forum.bitcoin.org, and continues to be informally known as "the bitcoin forums"
1392 2014-02-27 15:56:41 <jgarzik> InsiderJoe, anyway, that is a better question for #bitcoin
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1406 2014-02-27 16:06:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Esya: What's the problem?
1407 2014-02-27 16:07:08 <Esya> Hey michagogo|cloud !
1408 2014-02-27 16:07:12 <Esya> It's been solved
1409 2014-02-27 16:07:18 <Esya> Sorry :\
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1411 2014-02-27 16:07:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Great
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1432 2014-02-27 16:32:02 <NieSpieBoKopie> Hello. Anyone? http://pastebin.com/wSGHga9L
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1444 2014-02-27 16:41:14 <wumpus> NieSpieBoKopie: maybe cast the value to (boost::uint64_t) before passing it to Value
1445 2014-02-27 16:42:22 <wumpus> seems the definition of uint64_t and boost::uint64_t don't match exactly (one is long long unsigned the other just long unsigned), in which case C++ doesn't know what constructor variant to pick
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1449 2014-02-27 16:47:22 <sipa> wumpus: so why isn't this a problem in master for us?
1450 2014-02-27 16:48:23 <wumpus> sipa: no clue!
1451 2014-02-27 16:50:56 <wumpus> sipa: actually, we seem to be casting them to (boost::uint64_t)
1452 2014-02-27 16:51:22 <wumpus> for example see GetNetworkHashPS  in rpcmining.cpp
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1497 2014-02-27 17:27:11 <tlrobinson_> is this an accurate statement? In theory, given enough time (*very* long time), someone able to maintain 50.0000001% of hashing power could eventually rewrite the *entire* blockchain after the genesis block
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1503 2014-02-27 17:29:02 <helo> sure
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1505 2014-02-27 17:29:24 <helo> with emphasis on "in theory"
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1508 2014-02-27 17:30:10 <tlrobinson_> helo: yes of course :)
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1560 2014-02-27 17:57:19 <ionstorm> hearing some rumors from an associate i know in washington that Karpeles may be extradited to the US for prosecution, unsure any details unfortunately
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1563 2014-02-27 17:58:26 <tommygunner> will he an hero himself with his sword
1564 2014-02-27 17:58:55 <dhill> also heard a rumor that Karpeles is Satoshi
1565 2014-02-27 18:01:09 <ionstorm> satoshi? lol thats quite far fetched, Karpeles will pay for his crimes and missmanagement, and I highly doubt the bitcoin community will stand up for him
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1567 2014-02-27 18:01:18 <jgarzik> dhill, It's totally true.  The first version of bitcoin was written in PHP.
1568 2014-02-27 18:01:28 <dhill> in 3 days i heard
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1570 2014-02-27 18:01:42 <dhill> :P
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1589 2014-02-27 18:14:30 <jgarzik> so far, memory janitor runs consistent measure at 0-1 ms
1590 2014-02-27 18:14:45 <jgarzik> *consistently.  Gah, why do my fingers type words that my brain is not thinking?
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1592 2014-02-27 18:15:04 <jgarzik> 2014-02-27 17:54:47 mempool janitor run complete,  1ms
1593 2014-02-27 18:15:04 <jgarzik> 2014-02-27 17:54:47     0 old, 0 old wallet, 0 removed
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1598 2014-02-27 18:16:16 <jgarzik> running the janitor hourly, expiration time 3 hours
1599 2014-02-27 18:16:42 <jgarzik> of course, it just restarted a couple hours ago, and needs to build up a good head of steam
1600 2014-02-27 18:19:18 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: apply a patch to suck in the mempool from a peer at startup.
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1603 2014-02-27 18:20:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, I don't think that gives me a wide distribution of receive timestamps
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1605 2014-02-27 18:20:54 <gmaxwell> indeed, it wouldn't but it would give you some background fodder for performance numbers.
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1685 2014-02-27 19:28:14 * jgarzik does a gavin summoning dance
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1697 2014-02-27 19:35:22 <sharperguy> If I want to learn how to code with bitcoin would it be a helpful experiment to try to fork the bitcoin and create my own currency?
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1699 2014-02-27 19:37:19 <paveljanik> sharperguy: what do you want to code? Isn't it better to start reading the source and experiment on testnet?
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1701 2014-02-27 19:37:52 <sharperguy> paveljanik: hmm maybe that would be better
1702 2014-02-27 19:37:55 <sharperguy> I just want to experiment for now
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1704 2014-02-27 19:38:11 <sharperguy> I have a good general understanding of the bitcoin protocol but I've never looked closely at the code
1705 2014-02-27 19:38:43 <jakov> just do what you're interested in
1706 2014-02-27 19:38:47 <sharperguy> I guess if I experiment I'll be able to get a better understanding of what would be my capabilities
1707 2014-02-27 19:39:12 <sharperguy> yeah I'll have a go with both then, cheers
1708 2014-02-27 19:39:32 <jakov> have you seen coinjoin sharperguy ?
1709 2014-02-27 19:39:49 <jakov> if you're interested in the protocol and how transactions go that might be interesting
1710 2014-02-27 19:39:52 <sharperguy> It is a type of mixing right?
1711 2014-02-27 19:39:59 <jakov> yeah
1712 2014-02-27 19:40:06 <jakov> you could say that
1713 2014-02-27 19:40:08 <jakov> read the thread
1714 2014-02-27 19:40:46 <sharperguy> hmm if I'm right it is trustless mixing where it is all done in one transaction. Or is that something else?
1715 2014-02-27 19:41:30 <jakov> yeah thats it
1716 2014-02-27 19:41:58 <sharperguy> Yeah I'm definitely interested in these types of protocol-level things
1717 2014-02-27 19:42:21 <sharperguy> I just don't know how complex the code and the cryptography concepts are looking at this point so I need to start somewhere
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1724 2014-02-27 19:46:36 <bitblender> How big can the wallet.dat file be before getting problems? How many accounts and addresses can it handle?
1725 2014-02-27 19:47:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bitblender: You probably don't want to be using the accounts feature
1726 2014-02-27 19:47:23 <gavinandresen> bitblender: you should run some experiments and find out. Then share them, would be good information to have.
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1728 2014-02-27 19:48:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I would say, you can do at least a couple tens of thousands, as a lower bound, without bad performance once it's running
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1732 2014-02-27 19:49:05 <bitblender> so up to 20-30k accounts should be ok?
1733 2014-02-27 19:49:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|However, by that point you'll start to have delays on startup
1734 2014-02-27 19:49:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: Hey, your dance worked
1735 2014-02-27 19:49:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Only took 20 minutes
1736 2014-02-27 19:49:10 <bitblender> why should i not use accounts?
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1738 2014-02-27 19:49:24 <sipa> bitblender: number of keys/addresses only affects startup time
1739 2014-02-27 19:49:26 TheGreatAl has joined
1740 2014-02-27 19:49:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bitblender: Well, what would you be using them for?
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1742 2014-02-27 19:49:39 <sipa> bitblender: for almost all other performance, it's only the number of transactions that counts
1743 2014-02-27 19:49:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They're okayish for internal organization
1744 2014-02-27 19:50:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But do *not* use them to separate user balances or anything of the like
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1746 2014-02-27 19:50:38 <bitblender> alright..
1747 2014-02-27 19:50:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Basically, if you can't deal with the account data being wrong, getting messed up, and/or being lost entirely, don't use them
1748 2014-02-27 19:51:00 <bitblender> oh
1749 2014-02-27 19:51:08 <bitblender> why would the account balance become wrong?
1750 2014-02-27 19:51:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Assign addresses to users in your system, track balances yourself
1751 2014-02-27 19:51:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, see canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com
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1758 2014-02-27 19:52:29 <bitblender> why would the account balance become wrong or messed up? are there bugs in it?
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1760 2014-02-27 19:54:35 <phantomcircuit> bitblender, there is no way to have proper backups of the account balance information
1761 2014-02-27 19:54:47 <bitblender> ty.
1762 2014-02-27 19:54:47 <gavinandresen> yes, there are (were) bugs. I fixed several recently.  But michagogo's general advice is good: unless you really know what you are doing, and have a rock-solid business partner who knows a lot about finance and a good lawyer who knows a lot about financial regulations, DO NOT BUILD A SERVICE THAT KEEPS OTHER PEOPLE'S BITCOINS
1763 2014-02-27 19:55:11 <phantomcircuit> bitblender, you would need to take snapshot of the entire wallet.dat file everytime anything happened if you wanted to use the accounts feature
1764 2014-02-27 19:55:28 <bitblender> hey i started an exchange want to try it out?
1765 2014-02-27 19:55:42 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, i dont think the accounts feature is really upto handling personal accounting either
1766 2014-02-27 19:55:44 <phantomcircuit> but that's just me
1767 2014-02-27 19:55:55 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: "patches welcome"
1768 2014-02-27 19:56:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(BTW, if anyone is good with web development, feel free to create something more useful for canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com
1769 2014-02-27 19:56:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|)
1770 2014-02-27 19:56:12 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, only patch i'd submit there is to remove it
1771 2014-02-27 19:56:17 <phantomcircuit> and i've been told no before on that one
1772 2014-02-27 19:56:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|phantomcircuit: +1
1773 2014-02-27 19:56:30 <jakov> michagogo|cloud NO in <h3>
1774 2014-02-27 19:56:35 <jakov> right in the middle
1775 2014-02-27 19:56:38 <phantomcircuit> maybe just remove the api calls for the accounts stuff
1776 2014-02-27 19:56:48 <phantomcircuit> or require an additional parameter
1777 2014-02-27 19:56:48 <gavinandresen> they need to be deprecated before being removed
1778 2014-02-27 19:56:51 <phantomcircuit> "i know what im doing"
1779 2014-02-27 19:56:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jakov: did you see what's already there?
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1781 2014-02-27 19:57:15 <gavinandresen> … and that'd be fine with me, but deprecating accounts isn't high on my personal stuff-that-needs-doing list
1782 2014-02-27 19:57:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7bYHmB8n
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1789 2014-02-27 20:05:45 <Lightsword> Is there any reference code for pool payouts via generation transaction?
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1796 2014-02-27 20:09:51 <zone117x> can someone confirm for me that if miner A) submits 100 shares at 32, and miner B) submites 50 shares at diff 64.. that they did the same amount of work and will get the same amount of reward?
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1799 2014-02-27 20:12:45 <Luke-Jr> zone117x: #bitcoin-mining
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1801 2014-02-27 20:13:29 <zone117x> thanks Luke, didnt know about that one. I'll ask there
1802 2014-02-27 20:13:50 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: what do you consider "deprecated"? usually that just means a fiat decision that something will be removed in the future, no real functional changes
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1822 2014-02-27 20:27:45 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: deprecated means the help messages all say (deprecated) and release notes say "this and this and that are deprecated, and will be removed in a future release."
1823 2014-02-27 20:28:26 <gavinandresen> … and then all sorts of people come out of the woodwork and complain that they rely heavily on that deprecated feature and how can you DARE to remove it....
1824 2014-02-27 20:28:36 <Traubert> is this the place to ask random questions about the code? like: why do so many types and variables begin with "C", and in main.cpp, why is the global variable CCoinsViewCache *pcoinsTip = NULL; defined way after the other global variables, and not used for another almost 300 lines? and how do I figure out where it usually first gets a non-NULL value?
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1835 2014-02-27 20:39:33 <sharperguy> Does testnet reset every few months or something? What makes it not a viable currency like bitcoin or dogecoin or whatever?
1836 2014-02-27 20:40:59 <jakov> every time the testnet coins gain value, the devs reset the genesis block
1837 2014-02-27 20:41:19 <jakov> they are valuable because they are worthless
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1840 2014-02-27 20:41:49 <sharperguy> Ah ok so it's a manual reset process
1841 2014-02-27 20:42:09 <sharperguy> would be cool if the genesis block was tied to the date or something
1842 2014-02-27 20:42:28 <sharperguy> but I guess the more complicated you make it the less it represents how your software that you're testing it against would work on the real bitcoin
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1846 2014-02-27 20:46:09 <sipa> heh
1847 2014-02-27 20:46:19 <sipa> seems i'm not getting mails for pullreqs anymore
1848 2014-02-27 20:46:21 <sipa> that explains
1849 2014-02-27 20:46:32 <Luke-Jr> sipa: set github to Watching
1850 2014-02-27 20:46:48 <Luke-Jr> on the top
1851 2014-02-27 20:47:11 <sipa> yeah, i know; just surprised
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1860 2014-02-27 20:52:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|22:27:55 <gavinandresen> … and then all sorts of people come out of the woodwork and complain that they rely heavily on that deprecated feature and how can you DARE to remove it....
1861 2014-02-27 20:52:57 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|points at ,,(lucky xkcd 1172)
1862 2014-02-27 20:52:58 <gribble> https://xkcd.com/1172/
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1864 2014-02-27 20:53:28 <sipa> i think i can guess which xkcd that is
1865 2014-02-27 20:53:39 <sipa> yup :)
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1867 2014-02-27 20:56:37 <bitblender> I wonder what Satoshi is doing
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1882 2014-02-27 21:12:11 <aynstein> bitblender: perhaps he is wondering what bitblender is doing
1883 2014-02-27 21:12:31 <aynstein> the universe seems to be fond of symmetry
1884 2014-02-27 21:13:21 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1885 2014-02-27 21:13:55 _ImI_ has joined
1886 2014-02-27 21:14:10 <jgarzik> heh
1887 2014-02-27 21:14:25 ahbritto has joined
1888 2014-02-27 21:14:26 <jgarzik> running the janitor hourly, expiring TXs older than 3 hours, sure does prune a lot ;p
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1890 2014-02-27 21:16:14 <Subo1977_> hi togehter? when  would bitcoin-qt 0.9 released?
1891 2014-02-27 21:16:21 ahbritto_ has joined
1892 2014-02-27 21:16:40 <sipa> when it is ready
1893 2014-02-27 21:17:15 <Subo1977_> sipa: :-) i know. but would it be month or weeks?
1894 2014-02-27 21:17:21 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, whatcha doin?
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1896 2014-02-27 21:19:07 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3753
1897 2014-02-27 21:19:13 <chmod755> Subo1977_, just a few decades
1898 2014-02-27 21:19:30 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, that runs daily, expiring 3-day-old TXs.  gmaxwell suggested on every block.  field testing now...
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1901 2014-02-27 21:21:06 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ah, neat
1902 2014-02-27 21:21:09 <phantomcircuit> that's a good idea
1903 2014-02-27 21:21:49 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, that gives transactions a [mostly...] defined lifetime, something I've wanted to do for a while
1904 2014-02-27 21:22:13 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1905 2014-02-27 21:22:26 <phantomcircuit> that would also make double spending the inputs to add fees an actual possibility
1906 2014-02-27 21:22:39 <jgarzik> yep
1907 2014-02-27 21:22:43 <phantomcircuit> double spending the outputs?
1908 2014-02-27 21:22:43 Ursium has quit (Quit: Ursium)
1909 2014-02-27 21:22:47 <phantomcircuit> anyways yeah
1910 2014-02-27 21:22:48 <phantomcircuit> words
1911 2014-02-27 21:23:14 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, Also pondering a high water/low water setup for mempool, e.g., when 400MB is reached, shrink to 300MB
1912 2014-02-27 21:23:39 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, afaict the mempool doesn't grow to > 1024 very frequently
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1914 2014-02-27 21:24:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, ideally
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1916 2014-02-27 21:25:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, being able to put a hard limit (144*1MB*X-days) on the mempool can make handling some DoS possibilities a bit more manageable
1917 2014-02-27 21:25:45 <jgarzik> but the memory limit is secondary, thus, janitor expiring TXs came first
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1919 2014-02-27 21:26:37 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, true
1920 2014-02-27 21:27:13 rebroad has joined
1921 2014-02-27 21:27:19 <phantomcircuit>       1 2987
1922 2014-02-27 21:27:29 <phantomcircuit> that's the high water mark on a node that's been running for months
1923 2014-02-27 21:27:34 <rebroad> hi all, every time I rebase, make wants to recompile everything. Is there a way to avoid this happening?
1924 2014-02-27 21:27:50 <rebroad> 12987
1925 2014-02-27 21:27:50 <rebroad> ?
1926 2014-02-27 21:27:55 <phantomcircuit> 2987
1927 2014-02-27 21:28:02 <phantomcircuit> sort|uniq -c
1928 2014-02-27 21:28:08 <phantomcircuit> so 1 time it got that high
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1930 2014-02-27 21:28:35 <rebroad> i assume you're talking about the mempool size?
1931 2014-02-27 21:28:39 <phantomcircuit> yes
1932 2014-02-27 21:28:49 <rebroad> seems like a reasonable number, no?
1933 2014-02-27 21:28:58 <phantomcircuit> seems reasonable yes
1934 2014-02-27 21:29:07 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, what is that... number of transactions?
1935 2014-02-27 21:29:11 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, yeah
1936 2014-02-27 21:29:20 <jgarzik> that's nothing
1937 2014-02-27 21:29:24 <phantomcircuit> yup
1938 2014-02-27 21:29:38 <phantomcircuit> well if someone managed to generate 1MB transactions it would be a lot
1939 2014-02-27 21:29:41 <jgarzik> I've see 5000+ in the field at least once a month
1940 2014-02-27 21:30:00 Naphex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1942 2014-02-27 21:30:08 <phantomcircuit> on a related note
1943 2014-02-27 21:30:10 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, that's why I want the second sweep, based on total byte count
1944 2014-02-27 21:30:19 <phantomcircuit> why is it so hard to setup rrdtool graphing solutions
1945 2014-02-27 21:30:48 s7r has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1947 2014-02-27 21:30:57 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, it's easy enough to make it optional (and never used if never needed).  if the mempool never reaches high water, janitor won't shrink.
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1950 2014-02-27 21:31:24 <jgarzik> 1MB or 1,000,000 1-byte transactions, makes no difference
1951 2014-02-27 21:31:26 <rebroad> phantomcircuit, do you have the script you used on debug.log to get that number, I'm curious to test it on my debug.log
1952 2014-02-27 21:31:55 <phantomcircuit> rebroad, grep -F 'CTxMemPool::accept' debug.log |awk '{print $8}'|sed 's/[)]//g'|sort -n|uniq -c
1953 2014-02-27 21:32:16 <rebroad> ah... mine isn't always field 8. it varies.. ah well
1954 2014-02-27 21:32:57 <phantomcircuit> rebroad, only when it's rejected does it vary
1955 2014-02-27 21:33:09 daybyter has joined
1956 2014-02-27 21:33:15 <phantomcircuit> rebroad, grep -F 'CTxMemPool::accept' debug.log |grep -vF ERROR|awk '{print $8}'|sed 's/[)]//g'|sort -n|uniq -c
1957 2014-02-27 21:33:24 aynstein has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1958 2014-02-27 21:33:34 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit must be using some ancient version of bitcoind ;p
1959 2014-02-27 21:33:45 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, 0.8.5
1960 2014-02-27 21:33:48 Zifre has joined
1961 2014-02-27 21:33:57 <jgarzik> that's, like, MONTHS ago
1962 2014-02-27 21:34:04 <jgarzik> back when dinosaurs roamed the land
1963 2014-02-27 21:34:08 <rebroad> hmmm, how do I make it take the argument after the "poolsz"... I've been tinkering with my client so the output changes due to which version I'm running..
1964 2014-02-27 21:34:11 <phantomcircuit> heh
1965 2014-02-27 21:34:27 <phantomcircuit> ah right you're probably using git head
1966 2014-02-27 21:34:28 <jgarzik> AcceptToMemoryPool: 68.40.237.11:8333 /Satoshi:0.8.6/ : accepted 46e128266d8b4960f84f88c72ff9ecc4a2f1a56cd33db01ae08ba499d6b3097d (poolsz 591)
1967 2014-02-27 21:34:31 <phantomcircuit> gl with that :)
1968 2014-02-27 21:34:53 <rebroad> phantomcircuit, you don't recommend using git head?
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1972 2014-02-27 21:35:28 <phantomcircuit> rebroad, not for a stable node
1973 2014-02-27 21:35:38 airq has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1974 2014-02-27 21:35:45 * phantomcircuit twiddles thumbs waiting for bitcoind to finish
1975 2014-02-27 21:35:50 <phantomcircuit> 250k
1976 2014-02-27 21:35:52 <phantomcircuit> so close
1977 2014-02-27 21:36:08 <phantomcircuit> 2014-02-27 21:35:26 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000002982587b7976f9e987f5593179c160017eda085eb609651f4a  height=250454  log2_work=71.055613  tx=21610186  date=2013-08-06 02:46:49 progress=0.263494
1978 2014-02-27 21:36:14 airq has joined
1979 2014-02-27 21:36:15 <phantomcircuit> someone please tell me that's inaccurate
1980 2014-02-27 21:36:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm. What simple, blatantly obvious reason am I missing for keeping a mempool bigger than a few minutes if you're not mining?
1981 2014-02-27 21:36:42 <phantomcircuit> michagogo|cloud, network needs to "remember" transactions
1982 2014-02-27 21:37:03 <phantomcircuit> although actually at the moment nobody pulls from other peers mempool
1983 2014-02-27 21:37:09 <phantomcircuit> so i guess it doesn't matter really
1984 2014-02-27 21:37:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|phantomcircuit: I know that's what the mempool is
1985 2014-02-27 21:37:17 <phantomcircuit> informational purposes?
1986 2014-02-27 21:37:20 mE\Ta has joined
1987 2014-02-27 21:37:47 <phantomcircuit> oh i see im past the last checkpoint
1988 2014-02-27 21:38:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/checkpoints.cpp#L107
1989 2014-02-27 21:38:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|phantomcircuit: No you're not...
1990 2014-02-27 21:38:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, wait, yes you are
1991 2014-02-27 21:38:12 <roybadami> If a new transaction spends outputs that are already spent by a transacgtion in mempool, will it still be relayed?
1992 2014-02-27 21:38:13 <phantomcircuit> michagogo|cloud, for 0.8.6 i am
1993 2014-02-27 21:38:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|279000 isn't in a release yet
1994 2014-02-27 21:38:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;block
1995 2014-02-27 21:38:21 <gribble> I do not know about 'block', but I do know about these similar topics: 'blockchainsnapshot'
1996 2014-02-27 21:38:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;blocks
1997 2014-02-27 21:38:23 <gribble> 288169
1998 2014-02-27 21:38:25 <rebroad> 6th August 2013?
1999 2014-02-27 21:38:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|roybadami: no
2000 2014-02-27 21:39:12 <rebroad> phantomcircuit, what about block 250454?
2001 2014-02-27 21:39:13 implr has left ()
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2003 2014-02-27 21:39:16 <roybadami> That's what I thought.  If that's the case,  mempool in non-miners makes a big difference to the behaviour of the P2P network.
2004 2014-02-27 21:39:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|right
2005 2014-02-27 21:39:58 <phantomcircuit> roybadami, except it's not clear that it's a difference which is positive
2006 2014-02-27 21:40:07 <phantomcircuit> since it's effectively censoring information from the miners
2007 2014-02-27 21:40:17 emowataji has joined
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2009 2014-02-27 21:40:18 <phantomcircuit> otoh it prevents a certain class of dos attack
2010 2014-02-27 21:40:28 hp2yck has joined
2011 2014-02-27 21:40:29 <phantomcircuit> which is why jgarzik is implementing it as a timer
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2016 2014-02-27 21:43:37 <roybadami> Well, it has the effect that new nodes that come up are highly likely to select the same version of the transaction that is in everyone else's mempool.  That kind of _feels_ like a good thing....
2017 2014-02-27 21:43:58 Kuba1234___ has joined
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2019 2014-02-27 21:44:27 <dhill> 16:43:15 2014-02-27 [INF] BMGR: Processed 1 block in the last 2m39.8s (4 transactions, height 193415, 2014-02-27 17:00:58 -0500 EST)
2020 2014-02-27 21:44:32 <dhill> blocks in the future...
2021 2014-02-27 21:44:39 <sipa> what is that?
2022 2014-02-27 21:44:42 <roybadami> Having most nodes throw away transactions on a timescale small compared with the time it takes transactions to confirm feels like a major change that could have unanticipated consequences
2023 2014-02-27 21:44:55 <jgarzik> Random: ssh makes it annoyingly hard to disable encryption ;p
2024 2014-02-27 21:44:59 <dhill> sipa: last testnet block that came in
2025 2014-02-27 21:45:08 richcollins has joined
2026 2014-02-27 21:45:37 <sipa> dhill: only 16 minutes
2027 2014-02-27 21:45:41 <sipa> dhill: up to 2 hours is allowed
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2030 2014-02-27 21:46:09 <jrick> timestamp is essentially an extra nonce
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2035 2014-02-27 21:48:25 <Diablo-D3> http://i.imgur.com/B1Ajc8j.jpg
2036 2014-02-27 21:49:18 <Imbue> Diablo: the only winning move is not to play? :P
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2041 2014-02-27 21:55:53 * kuzetsa taps 3 swamp mana
2042 2014-02-27 21:55:55 <kuzetsa> :D
2043 2014-02-27 21:56:02 <kuzetsa> hi Diablo-D3
2044 2014-02-27 21:56:11 <Diablo-D3> hi
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2099 2014-02-27 22:27:12 <implr> is it safe to assume that a valid transaction will be confirmed eventually, if I can prove that it can't be doublespent?
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2102 2014-02-27 22:27:29 <andytoshi> implr: how can you prove that it can't be doublespent?
2103 2014-02-27 22:28:00 <phantomcircuit> implr, absolutely not
2104 2014-02-27 22:28:05 <implr> andytoshi: by controlling the key (or enough of the keys in case on multisig)
2105 2014-02-27 22:28:10 <andytoshi> it's also definitely not safe to assume it -won't- be confirmed.
2106 2014-02-27 22:28:22 <andytoshi> implr: right, but how do you prove that you won't double spend it?
2107 2014-02-27 22:28:37 <phantomcircuit> implr, you cannot control whether the transaction is included in a block or not once it's sent
2108 2014-02-27 22:28:51 <implr> I thought the reference client did something similar when spending unconfirmed change
2109 2014-02-27 22:29:14 ralphtheninja has joined
2110 2014-02-27 22:29:37 <implr> andytoshi: I don't want to prove it to somebody else
2111 2014-02-27 22:29:47 <implr> I was more worried about what phantomcircuit is talking about
2112 2014-02-27 22:29:53 <andytoshi> oh, then ofc you can't assume anything, inclusion is up to the miners
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2117 2014-02-27 22:32:12 <implr> I thought about an escrow service, where the service creates one keypair, the user another, a 2-of-2 address is created, the user pays funds to it
2118 2014-02-27 22:32:44 <implr> and I was basically wondering if that service could accept spends from that address without confirmations
2119 2014-02-27 22:32:48 <implr> as it controls one key
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2121 2014-02-27 22:34:18 <gmaxwell> sure, thats a viable technique, but you need to do something about the service going away and locking up the users funds forever.
2122 2014-02-27 22:34:34 <gmaxwell> One possibility is an nlocktimed anyone can pay refund that you keep for those funds.
2123 2014-02-27 22:34:57 <gmaxwell> (it should be anyone can pay so that you can add fees to it in the future if needed)
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2128 2014-02-27 22:39:22 <implr> okay, but what if no miners include that transaction and I've sent whatever I'm selling to the user?
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2130 2014-02-27 22:39:47 <implr> the whole idea is to skip waiting for confirmations, but now I'm not sure if that is possible
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2134 2014-02-27 22:41:15 <gmaxwell> implr: you need arbritration for that kind of case. see bitrated.com
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2143 2014-02-27 22:42:33 <nezZario> btw,
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2147 2014-02-27 22:45:52 <nezZario> oops, wrong channel ;)
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2307 2014-02-27 23:51:19 <implr> gmaxwell: maybe that was a bad example, arbitration isn't what I had in mind there
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2309 2014-02-27 23:51:51 <implr> anyway, the inclusion issue also applies to that nlocktimed transaction, right?
2310 2014-02-27 23:52:06 <implr> the user could add fees, but he cannot be sure if it will ever be mined
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2313 2014-02-27 23:54:59 <jorick> It would be awesome if we had a way to generate a public key from a name and some bits in such a way that whoever generated the bits can also generate the private key (given the name)
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2315 2014-02-27 23:56:34 <gmaxwell> implr: thats true for _all_ transactions, if you're not willing to take a risk that a future transaction will never be mined you shouldn't be using bitcoin.
2316 2014-02-27 23:57:03 <Persopolis> wumpus: thanks for ubuntu tip - compiled all first try - dead easy
2317 2014-02-27 23:57:31 antephia_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2318 2014-02-27 23:58:09 <implr> gmaxwell: of course
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2321 2014-02-27 23:59:05 <jorick> so i could just publish the 'bits' on the namecoin ledger and receive anonymous cash without having to put up a new donation address every time
2322 2014-02-27 23:59:25 <implr> so the answer to my first question would also be yes, provided it's anyonecanpay so I can add enough fees
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