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  72 2014-03-02 01:29:57 <alex_fun> :)
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  77 2014-03-02 01:33:57 <alex_fun> hello, who here compiled bitcoin osx qt? :D
  78 2014-03-02 01:34:18 <alex_fun> i compiled on 10.8 yet to make it work for 10.9 hehe
  79 2014-03-02 01:35:03 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  80 2014-03-02 01:35:05 <alex_fun> some dlyb looks for its dependencies outside app bundle :)
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  85 2014-03-02 01:42:30 <nezZario> btw, any word on when/if multisig will be implemented in the gui of btc?
  86 2014-03-02 01:42:44 <nezZario> I mean, I'd be happy to donate to a fund
  87 2014-03-02 01:42:56 <jakov> there are some GUIs, like that javascript website that does it
  88 2014-03-02 01:43:29 <andytoshi> is CoinVault released yet?
  89 2014-03-02 01:43:29 alex_fun has left ()
  90 2014-03-02 01:43:32 <andytoshi> CodeShark: ^
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  94 2014-03-02 01:44:31 <andytoshi> coinvault is a multisig wallet which uses keychains. you exchange public chains with your peers and that enables you to construct m-of-n txes with them
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 114 2014-03-02 02:10:42 <kanzure> i am running with -regtest and there's 6 blocks, but getunconfirmedbalance returns 0. why?
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 119 2014-03-02 02:14:50 <sipa> kanzure: getunconfirmedbalance probably counts unconfirmed but not immature balance
 120 2014-03-02 02:14:50 <owowo> are you MT and have you "lost" the key?
 121 2014-03-02 02:15:01 <sipa> please
 122 2014-03-02 02:15:19 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
 123 2014-03-02 02:15:23 <owowo> ya, sorry. I could not resist. ;)
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 125 2014-03-02 02:15:52 <kanzure> i'm gox and so is my wife
 126 2014-03-02 02:15:52 <gmaxwell> sipa: perhaps it should count immature? I'm not sure about that. since it's not counted in the normal balance.. probably should.
 127 2014-03-02 02:16:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: perhaps, yes
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 129 2014-03-02 02:16:29 <kanzure> after calling "setgenerate true" a few hundred times, there's a height=162 but only 3000 BTC
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 131 2014-03-02 02:16:39 <kanzure> 3000 BTC is reported by "getbalance"
 132 2014-03-02 02:16:46 <sipa> kanzure: sounds perfectly normal
 133 2014-03-02 02:16:53 <sipa> it takes 101 blocks before coins mature
 134 2014-03-02 02:17:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: from a user's point of view there is little difference between unconfirmed and immature balance (both are "if nothing goes wrong, you'll eventually have this")
 135 2014-03-02 02:17:33 <gmaxwell> yea, agreed.
 136 2014-03-02 02:17:56 <gmaxwell> in general making immature look more like unconfirmed would be helpful for making people handle corner cases right.
 137 2014-03-02 02:17:57 <kanzure> i wouldn't mind a separate unconfirmed vs. immature rpc command as long as both are available
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 139 2014-03-02 02:18:19 <gmaxwell> kanzure: that makes it more likely people who only very infrequently have immature coins will handle them incorrectly.
 140 2014-03-02 02:18:36 <gmaxwell> I _think_ its unconditionally safe to treat them as immature.
 141 2014-03-02 02:18:40 <gmaxwell> er unconfirmed.
 142 2014-03-02 02:19:00 <kanzure> but i believe the current behavior of getunconfirmedbalance does not include immature blocks?
 143 2014-03-02 02:19:35 <kanzure> cool, yeah i'm sure that will help with testing edgecases on third-party services
 144 2014-03-02 02:21:26 antephialtic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 145 2014-03-02 02:22:36 <gmaxwell> there are already a bunch of things that will just never credit the user if they pay with generated coin, if instead they just took a really long time to credit the user that would be an improvement.  (and if they credited instantly that would be an anti-improvement)
 146 2014-03-02 02:23:11 <kanzure> oh is this because the services never rescan?
 147 2014-03-02 02:23:41 <kanzure> presumably a service should be able to replay their entire transaction history and come up with the same result as their internal db
 148 2014-03-02 02:24:53 LightRider is now known as LightRiderAFK
 149 2014-03-02 02:25:07 <kanzure> why is it called regtest?
 150 2014-03-02 02:25:22 <gmaxwell> because its for regression testing
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 152 2014-03-02 02:28:06 <kanzure> is there a certain prefix for regtest addresses? or can i use testnet address prefixes?
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 155 2014-03-02 02:38:39 <gmaxwell> mainnet, which is prehaps a bit annoying.
 156 2014-03-02 02:39:08 <gmaxwell> makes it a bit risky to use, a few times I've sent my mainnet bitcoind testnet sendtoaddresses.
 157 2014-03-02 02:39:48 <gmaxwell> "hurrah I just gave a random person on IRC 10 BTC!"  (fortunately in my case thats blocked by both wallet encryption and the different address version)
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 184 2014-03-02 03:11:21 <Tecan> is there somewhere i can buy a storefront for bitcoin ?
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 223 2014-03-02 04:01:13 <davec> gmaxwell: are you sure it's mainnet for regtest.  I'm pretty sure it's testnet  as  class CRegTestParams : public CTestNetParams {
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 225 2014-03-02 04:03:08 <gmaxwell> hm. I thought it was mainnet but I see that its testnet here. It used to be mainnet with the patches.
 226 2014-03-02 04:04:49 <davec> cool.  I agree though that it would be better to have a unique prefix.  I brought it up just a couple of days ago and it seemed like the people in here at the time were happy with it being testnet
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 229 2014-03-02 04:09:06 <olalonde> perhaps I am misunderstanding something but isn't "scriptPubKey" a misleading name?
 230 2014-03-02 04:09:57 <olalonde> given that it isn't necessarily solved by a public key
 231 2014-03-02 04:10:04 <andytoshi> olalonde: bitcoin's signature algorithm is script, not ecdsa
 232 2014-03-02 04:11:12 <andytoshi> so the scriptPubkey is public, it's on the blockchain, but typical scripts have some secret input (which may include a valid ECDSA signature, but that's incidental), so that's the private half
 233 2014-03-02 04:11:20 <andytoshi> perhaps scriptSig is a misleading name then :)
 234 2014-03-02 04:11:31 Plinker_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 235 2014-03-02 04:11:40 <jcorgan> olalonde: indeed, 'scriptPubKey' is somewhat misleading, it is the name for the script that runs after a spending scriptSig to validate the stack and determine whether the spending scriptSig is valid
 236 2014-03-02 04:11:50 <olalonde> right
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 240 2014-03-02 04:12:38 <jcorgan> the most common scriptPubkey is one that allows spending by proving you have the private key (and hence public key) that corresponds to an address
 241 2014-03-02 04:12:44 <olalonde> I think I would have named those scriptSig->scriptSolution scriptPubKey->scriptChallenge
 242 2014-03-02 04:12:51 <jcorgan> which is probably where it go its name
 243 2014-03-02 04:12:56 <jcorgan> got
 244 2014-03-02 04:12:58 <olalonde> right
 245 2014-03-02 04:13:11 <jcorgan> agree, i'd have called it spendingScript and validationScript
 246 2014-03-02 04:13:15 <olalonde> too late now :P
 247 2014-03-02 04:13:20 <jcorgan> right :)
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 249 2014-03-02 04:14:43 <olalonde> maybe non standard transactions was an afterthought of satoshi
 250 2014-03-02 04:15:06 <jcorgan> hard to say, i wasn't around and he's not answering :)
 251 2014-03-02 04:15:12 <olalonde> haha
 252 2014-03-02 04:15:24 <andytoshi> i think the existence of script suggests that he thought about some of this stuff
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 254 2014-03-02 04:15:52 <olalonde> if I recall correctly, scripts are not discussed in the original paper
 255 2014-03-02 04:16:06 <andytoshi> no, but they were in the original implementation
 256 2014-03-02 04:16:14 <andytoshi> the original paper is really really underspecified
 257 2014-03-02 04:16:43 <olalonde> ok
 258 2014-03-02 04:17:39 <olalonde> did he version control his progress until first public release?
 259 2014-03-02 04:17:39 ntio has joined
 260 2014-03-02 04:17:52 <andytoshi> there is a link to the mailing list announcement floating around, i can't find it :(
 261 2014-03-02 04:18:10 <olalonde> ok no problem
 262 2014-03-02 04:18:19 <andytoshi> i don't think so, i believe he was emailing .zips of code around >.>
 263 2014-03-02 04:18:28 <olalonde> haha ok
 264 2014-03-02 04:19:36 <olalonde> was the first release already cross platform?
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 266 2014-03-02 04:19:59 <gmaxwell> no. it was windows only. (though the code was reasonably portable)
 267 2014-03-02 04:20:08 <andytoshi> http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.1.0.tgz
 268 2014-03-02 04:20:14 <olalonde> ok thanks
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 270 2014-03-02 04:20:34 <gmaxwell> I don't think scriptPubKey is even the the slighest bit misleading, in fact its the opposite: it's enlightening.
 271 2014-03-02 04:20:53 <Luke-Jr> was*
 272 2014-03-02 04:20:58 <gmaxwell> The scriptPubkey _is_ a public key. It's a public key for the "bitcoin script hybrid signature system".
 273 2014-03-02 04:21:53 <olalonde> right
 274 2014-03-02 04:22:01 <jcorgan> hmm, hadn't thought of it that way, i see your point
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 277 2014-03-02 04:22:37 <olalonde> in that perspective, scriptSig makes sense as well
 278 2014-03-02 04:23:52 <gmaxwell> it makes more sense once you start talking about more poweful zero knoweldge proof systems which are often called "zero knoweldge signature of knoweldge"— a system that lets you prove (via a signature) you know some fact, without revealing (all of the) details of the fact... but which has a mechnism to identify which fact you're proving (via the public key)
 279 2014-03-02 04:24:32 <gmaxwell> the only part of bitcoin script which is zero knoweldge is the proof you know the discrete log of some ec point— none the less... :)
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 281 2014-03-02 04:26:17 <olalonde> it was a bit confusing to me because I thought the "PubKey" part referred to the public key of private keys who generated the public key hash in standard transactions
 282 2014-03-02 04:26:59 <olalonde> so the "pubKey" in scriptPubKey refers to the public key of the "bitcoin script hybrid signature system", not the ECDSA public key
 283 2014-03-02 04:29:55 <gmaxwell> yea. Correct. the scriptPubKey  is the public key for "script".
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 337 2014-03-02 04:47:48 <olalonde> " Note that while transactions like this are fun, they are not secure, because they do not contain any signatures and thus any transaction attempting to spend them can be replaced with a different transaction sending the funds somewhere else." on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script . If I understand correctly, the warning here is that a malicious miner could use your scriptSig and modify the transaction
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 360 2014-03-02 04:51:29 <andytoshi> that's right, only OP_CHECKSIG is affected by the outputs, so if you don't have that anywhere you can simply replace them
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 370 2014-03-02 04:52:36 <olalonde> andytoshi: ok thanks
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 404 2014-03-02 05:11:38 <olalonde> http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/d4950d1f2cdc908eebc472600bc5c8e3c990fd3fed7f7fa6b3cf85cf61c3c2f8
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 406 2014-03-02 05:11:51 <olalonde> what does the "v" in vin and vout stand for?
 407 2014-03-02 05:12:09 <olalonde> I understand vin_sz is the number of inputs, but why not just name it in_sz?
 408 2014-03-02 05:12:21 <olalonde> vector?
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 418 2014-03-02 05:26:27 <gmaxwell> vector, yea.
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 443 2014-03-02 05:44:41 <tinaivanova> http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html
 444 2014-03-02 05:44:45 <tinaivanova> why is the number changing
 445 2014-03-02 05:45:51 <tinaivanova> gmaxwell:
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 447 2014-03-02 05:51:26 <YabaDabaDoge> what is going on a Gox?
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 449 2014-03-02 05:52:26 <gmaxwell> This is offtopic for this channel, please take it elsewhere.
 450 2014-03-02 05:52:43 <gmaxwell> (e.g. try ##mtgox-chat )
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 454 2014-03-02 05:54:27 <embicoin> Do you recommend to use something like redis for a little personal c# project or would you stick to sqlite or leveldb? (I am just starting with db's so I can go for anyone)
 455 2014-03-02 05:54:53 <embicoin> The db will feed itself from the daemon
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 526 2014-03-02 07:26:28 <gmaxwell> Is there a reason why the " tighten multisig non-standard rules: do not relay pubkeys above 65 bytes"  didn't just test for the size being exactly equal to 33 or 65 bytes?
 527 2014-03-02 07:26:49 <gmaxwell> or even checking that the size and compression flag agree too?
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 529 2014-03-02 07:27:26 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: because spammers will just *add* data to make it pass?
 530 2014-03-02 07:27:37 <Luke-Jr> *sigh*
 531 2014-03-02 07:28:02 <gmaxwell> well the standard rules also do help people not footgun themsevles.
 532 2014-03-02 07:28:15 Guest23137 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 533 2014-03-02 07:28:18 <gmaxwell> e.g. without ... details.. mtgox wouldn't have been able to pay to \0 a couple years ago
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 535 2014-03-02 07:29:18 <gmaxwell> actually testing if the value is a valid point on the curve would be fun but its not cpu cheap, but at least a der encoding test is cheap.
 536 2014-03-02 07:30:10 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: too bad we don't have a framework for low-priority checks
 537 2014-03-02 07:30:18 <Luke-Jr> "only check this if the CPU is significantly idle"
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 559 2014-03-02 08:05:45 <Dickyb0b> was the bitcoin qt wallet coded in c++/winapi?
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 640 2014-03-02 09:55:02 <mn3monic> hi, need testnet bitcoins, anyone can help? thanks
 641 2014-03-02 09:56:06 <gmaxwell> mn3monic: address, and will 10 do?
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 644 2014-03-02 09:57:37 <mn3monic> 2N6RaiLLDd22dLz2nmEtnKqR6mKJYj5jhxX
 645 2014-03-02 09:57:40 <mn3monic> thanks
 646 2014-03-02 09:58:20 <gmaxwell> k. there you go.
 647 2014-03-02 09:58:30 <gmaxwell> dump it back in a faucet if you get bored with it
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 650 2014-03-02 10:00:41 <mn3monic> uh, didn't know there are testnet faucet availables. Just found one on appspot, i'll give them back :-)
 651 2014-03-02 10:01:33 <gmaxwell> they don't always work or have coins. :)
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 665 2014-03-02 10:19:38 <mn3monic> I'm testing an online implemention of electrum client and looks nice. Any idea on how to be sure they don't store mnemonic passphrase, without looking at the source code ?
 666 2014-03-02 10:19:51 <mn3monic> (if it's possible)
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 668 2014-03-02 10:22:46 <gmaxwell> online implementation? sounds dangerous, of course anything like that could have its code changed any any time...
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 671 2014-03-02 10:26:16 <mn3monic> gmaxwell: obv I agree and I wouldn't store my credentials there, as I wouldn't do with blockchain.info or similar, but it's very user friendly and I'm just trying to figure out if it can be a valid blockchain.info competitor. users loves online service, we have to deal with this :-)
 672 2014-03-02 10:26:55 bitwyre has joined
 673 2014-03-02 10:27:06 <gmaxwell> users also, apparently love leaving their funds in mtgox. :)
 674 2014-03-02 10:28:02 <embicoin> Can anybody do a > strip -V and tell me the version or their strip executable please?
 675 2014-03-02 10:28:20 jordandotdev has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
 676 2014-03-02 10:29:11 <embicoin> Mine is 2.23.2 it does not seem to work in any form to reduce the size of my compiled binary
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 683 2014-03-02 10:37:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|mn3monic: run it offline?
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 687 2014-03-02 10:39:05 <mn3monic> michagogo|cloud, you mean something like: open the web page, then go offline, then put the mnemonic passphrase in it and try to login ?
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 690 2014-03-02 10:42:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|mn3monic: download it
 691 2014-03-02 10:42:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|See if it works offline
 692 2014-03-02 10:43:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Note that that's not a guarantee that it doesn't store it and transmit later, you'd need to check the code
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 694 2014-03-02 10:43:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or, just only run it on an offline machine)
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 696 2014-03-02 10:45:03 <Tecan> 40 gb later and my blockchain is complete
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 700 2014-03-02 10:46:25 <mn3monic> whatever I do, it's clear that there is no warranty without the source code (and even then, there is no guarantee that online is implemented the same source code). I'll just pass on it...  last time I thought that a service could be good (inputs.io) didn't end well however
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 708 2014-03-02 10:56:05 <TheSeven> BlueMatt: just a quick heads up, ubuntu trusty beta is around the corner (release end of april)
 709 2014-03-02 10:56:28 <TheSeven> as that uses boost 1.54 one can't easily just install the saucy package
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 711 2014-03-02 10:56:56 <TheSeven> I've worked around it for now, but it would of course be nice if it works out of the box before the release :)
 712 2014-03-02 10:57:34 <gmaxwell> hm? is it not statically linked in the package?
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 720 2014-03-02 11:07:28 <_syslog> salut, i coded a new (opensource ) faucet  need testters.
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 722 2014-03-02 11:10:57 <Belxjander> _syslog: I'm willing to test
 723 2014-03-02 11:11:03 <Belxjander> _syslog: please PM the address
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 731 2014-03-02 11:17:58 <TheSeven> gmaxwell: no idea, but the package has deps on packages that don't exist anymore in trusty
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 759 2014-03-02 11:42:57 <wallet42> multisig max is 16-of-16 right? cuz there is afaik no OP_17
 760 2014-03-02 11:44:48 <gmaxwell> no, you can encode integers higher than 16... though there is a limit of 20 keys in the operation.
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 762 2014-03-02 11:45:59 <sipa> you can just push the byte array [0x11] if you need the number 17
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 777 2014-03-02 12:14:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Okay, looks like my gbuild from DO is identical to the KVM builds
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 782 2014-03-02 12:17:13 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: the instructions in your PR mention -windows twice
 783 2014-03-02 12:17:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm?
 784 2014-03-02 12:17:40 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|looks
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 787 2014-03-02 12:20:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(it doesn't help that I have 2 VMs running atm...)
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 805 2014-03-02 12:35:57 <chichov> what's the correct term for a hash of zeros (see coinbase transaction)? null hash or zero hash maybe?
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 818 2014-03-02 12:53:12 <sipa> chichov: it's technically not a hash :)
 819 2014-03-02 12:53:25 <sipa> chichov: just a zero 256-bit uint
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 822 2014-03-02 12:54:26 <shesek> wallet42, note that multisig outputs are technically limited to 3 total pubkeys
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 825 2014-03-02 12:54:45 <sipa> shesek: not true ijn p2sh
 826 2014-03-02 12:54:46 <shesek> but with p2sh this isn't checked and you're limited by the size
 827 2014-03-02 12:54:52 <sipa> right
 828 2014-03-02 12:54:57 <shesek> which is something like 8 pubkeys I think?
 829 2014-03-02 12:55:12 <sipa> with compressed pubkeys, up to 15
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 831 2014-03-02 13:00:12 <chichov> sipa: alright, thanks
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 833 2014-03-02 13:00:40 <chichov> are there any rules imposed on the transaction sequence number in coinbase transactions?
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 836 2014-03-02 13:02:00 <chichov> logically, it wouldn't make sense to create a transaction with a non-final sequence number
 837 2014-03-02 13:02:07 <chichov> but I'm wondering about the technicalities
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 839 2014-03-02 13:05:32 <wallet42> sipa: so the limit is on the input.sigScript
 840 2014-03-02 13:05:42 <wallet42> length or signing ops?
 841 2014-03-02 13:06:06 <sipa>  a data push is limited to 520 bytes
 842 2014-03-02 13:06:21 <wallet42> datapush for the redeem script
 843 2014-03-02 13:06:30 <sipa> as p2sh requires the redeem script to be pushes as a single item
 844 2014-03-02 13:07:05 <_syslog> need testers for opensource faucet
 845 2014-03-02 13:08:08 <wallet42> how come the subscript is executed at all?
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 847 2014-03-02 13:09:43 <wallet42> isnt the full script to unlock an output $inputScriptSig || $outputScriptPubKey ?
 848 2014-03-02 13:10:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: gah
 849 2014-03-02 13:10:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I must have been tired or distracted or something when I did that
 850 2014-03-02 13:10:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The whole thing is a mess
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 859 2014-03-02 13:17:50 <warren> Luke-Jr: do you happen to know why the client historically (and now) subtracts 1000 bytes from the block priority size?  arbitrary - 1000 is still arbitrary ...
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 863 2014-03-02 13:26:54 <sipa> wallet42: ???
 864 2014-03-02 13:27:14 <sipa> wallet42: the subscript is what defimes the condition for spending
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 866 2014-03-02 13:27:25 <sipa> hioow could you not execute it
 867 2014-03-02 13:27:49 <wallet42> no my question is why is it executed
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 869 2014-03-02 13:28:23 <sipa> i don't understand
 870 2014-03-02 13:28:26 <wallet42> or maybe i still dont get this whole scripting
 871 2014-03-02 13:28:34 <sipa> what good is a script if it is not executed
 872 2014-03-02 13:28:45 <sipa> in a typica
 873 2014-03-02 13:29:04 <wallet42> to unlock an output $inputScriptSig || $outputScriptPubKey is executed
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 875 2014-03-02 13:29:18 <wallet42> and if there is OP_TRUE on the stack left, it is unlocked
 876 2014-03-02 13:29:21 <sipa> that was true 4 years ago
 877 2014-03-02 13:29:23 <wallet42> right?
 878 2014-03-02 13:29:25 <wallet42> okay
 879 2014-03-02 13:29:45 <sipa> now, the scriptSig is executed separatrly
 880 2014-03-02 13:29:46 <wallet42> sorry then i missed some docs ^^
 881 2014-03-02 13:30:17 <sipa> and its resulting stack is used as initial stack for the scriptPubKey of the output being spent
 882 2014-03-02 13:30:22 <wallet42> aaah
 883 2014-03-02 13:30:49 <sipa> which is very much like executing scriptSig || scriptPubKey
 884 2014-03-02 13:30:59 <sipa> but there are some weird edge cases
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 886 2014-03-02 13:31:46 <wallet42> so something like "OP_EVAL" is excpicit in p2sh case
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 888 2014-03-02 13:32:00 <sipa> there is no op eval
 889 2014-03-02 13:32:05 <wallet42> i know
 890 2014-03-02 13:32:10 <sipa> that was an earlier proposal for p2sh
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 892 2014-03-02 13:32:24 <sipa> but yes
 893 2014-03-02 13:32:35 <wallet42> but latest stack item is the checkmultisig DATA push
 894 2014-03-02 13:33:08 <sipa> the whole idea is moving the actual scriptPubKey from output to input, and only have a hash of the script in the Iutput
 895 2014-03-02 13:33:15 <sipa> eh?
 896 2014-03-02 13:33:15 <wallet42> so somehow this needs some +x flag so its not interpreded as data but as executable script
 897 2014-03-02 13:33:21 <Burrito> The release notes for the latest release candidate mention a BIP 0061 (a P2P reject message?), but I can't find the text for this BIP in the repository (bitcoin/bips) or on the wiki...
 898 2014-03-02 13:33:32 <wallet42> sipa: i get that
 899 2014-03-02 13:33:43 <sipa> wallet42: oh, read bip16
 900 2014-03-02 13:33:57 <wallet42> thx
 901 2014-03-02 13:34:12 <sipa> just the structure of the script put in the output makes the last input element magiv
 902 2014-03-02 13:34:34 <sipa> Burrito: there is a draft, that was discussed on the mailking list
 903 2014-03-02 13:34:43 <Burrito> ah, okay
 904 2014-03-02 13:34:47 <wallet42> yes, also the sighhash created uses the redeemscript as inputScript for generatig the hash for signing
 905 2014-03-02 13:34:57 <sipa> yes
 906 2014-03-02 13:35:09 <wallet42> which cost me some time to figure out, since else it is the prevOut script has
 907 2014-03-02 13:35:10 <wallet42> h
 908 2014-03-02 13:35:17 <wallet42> no not hash
 909 2014-03-02 13:35:24 <wallet42> the prev out scriptPubKey
 910 2014-03-02 13:35:42 <wallet42> which would be OP_HASH160 … OP_EQUAL
 911 2014-03-02 13:35:47 <wallet42> but its not
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 913 2014-03-02 13:36:46 <sipa> eh, it is?
 914 2014-03-02 13:37:38 <dexX7> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib/gitian-downloader luke-jr's key has expired
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 919 2014-03-02 13:42:10 <bitanarchy> have there been any proposals for more advanced blockchain approaches?
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 922 2014-03-02 13:45:12 <sipa> can you be a bit more specific?
 923 2014-03-02 13:45:35 <bitanarchy> like a merge protocol for forks
 924 2014-03-02 13:45:48 <wallet42> there is no fork merging
 925 2014-03-02 13:46:04 <wallet42> the longest fork simply wins
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 927 2014-03-02 13:46:16 <sipa> there is... compatible transactions in the reorganized chain move to the new one, if possible
 928 2014-03-02 13:46:26 <bitanarchy> but what if you merge in another fork just like with git
 929 2014-03-02 13:46:30 <wallet42> all transactions become free floating again if not conflikting
 930 2014-03-02 13:47:04 <sipa> bitanarchy: in case there are no double spends, the old transactions just get mined in the new chain, done
 931 2014-03-02 13:47:30 <bitanarchy> i am thinking about how to allow better competition between proof of works
 932 2014-03-02 13:47:46 <sipa> competition between proof of works?
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 934 2014-03-02 13:47:54 <wallet42> im not convinced we need another POW
 935 2014-03-02 13:48:25 <sipa> bitanarchy: what problem are you tryimg tok solve?
 936 2014-03-02 13:48:55 <bitanarchy> proof of work needs to be resistant against miner cartelization
 937 2014-03-02 13:49:23 <sipa> ok, go dream
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 939 2014-03-02 13:49:31 <wallet42> i dont think another pow can fix that one.
 940 2014-03-02 13:49:54 <bitanarchy> sipa: are you saying that miner cartelization is bound to happen?
 941 2014-03-02 13:50:05 <bitanarchy> :S ;)
 942 2014-03-02 13:50:21 <gavinandresen> 0.9.0rc2 up at:  https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/test/
 943 2014-03-02 13:50:56 <wallet42> there is a better approach to mitigate centralization: ask you cloudhashing service to integrate proof of transaction inclusioin
 944 2014-03-02 13:52:19 <wallet42> if every GH owner can let his own miner process decide on the merkle root he's working on
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 946 2014-03-02 13:53:44 <wallet42> awesome work everyone on 0.9!!
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 948 2014-03-02 13:53:52 <wallet42> thank you so much
 949 2014-03-02 13:54:32 <bitanarchy> I am not worried about the pools in the first place, but more about mining becoming a centralized business that will be regulate by gov
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 951 2014-03-02 13:55:50 <wallet42> gavinandresen: osx crashing at startup
 952 2014-03-02 13:56:29 <wallet42> mavericks 10.9.2
 953 2014-03-02 13:56:52 <gavinandresen> wallet42: thanks, can you file an issue?  some framework or library probably didn't make it into the .app bundle....
 954 2014-03-02 13:56:54 <bitanarchy> are there any measures of where the mayority of the hashing power is located and how decentralized it is?
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 956 2014-03-02 13:57:17 <wallet42> gavinandresen: where can i get some debug.log to attach
 957 2014-03-02 13:57:36 <bitanarchy> Mining is a specialized business with economy of scale
 958 2014-03-02 13:57:40 <gavinandresen> wallet42: if it crashed at startup because of a missing dll, then there will be no debug.log
 959 2014-03-02 13:58:02 <gavinandresen> wallet42: does the crash dialog give you a "more info" checkbox?
 960 2014-03-02 13:58:31 <fanquake> Runs fine on osx 10.8.5
 961 2014-03-02 13:59:04 <wallet42> sure i can  use that one
 962 2014-03-02 13:59:25 <gavinandresen> I tested on 10.8.5 and 10.6, but both those have XCode installed, which might provide some missing library
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 965 2014-03-02 14:00:15 <fanquake> wallet42 You might be able to find a crash log in Console
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 969 2014-03-02 14:02:40 <bitanarchy> I just want to make sure that we will not get a goxing for the btc mining network as a whole...
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 979 2014-03-02 14:11:46 <fanquake> gavinandresen Is that rc built with qt 5.1?
 980 2014-03-02 14:13:38 <dexX7> 5.2
 981 2014-03-02 14:13:55 <dexX7> at least here in win7
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 983 2014-03-02 14:14:43 <fanquake> hmm ok. Looks like the crash on startup issue is caused by 5.1 on mavericks
 984 2014-03-02 14:15:10 <fanquake> Few different projects have all been having the exact same issue.
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 992 2014-03-02 14:21:31 <sipa> looks like infinite recusion inside qt
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 994 2014-03-02 14:24:44 <fanquake> sipa it's a font rendering issue. mavericks only https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-31803
 995 2014-03-02 14:26:05 <fanquake> Fix seems to be using qt 5.1.1 or above
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1012 2014-03-02 14:44:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: you have Cory Fields and theuni listed in your email to the ML
1013 2014-03-02 14:45:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Also, I'm not at my computer to create a PR, but you can pull in my rc2 sigs from my fork if you want)
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1030 2014-03-02 15:09:43 <TinkerTom> os x crashes for me too, on 10.9 - I have stack traces - it's something to do with fonts
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1033 2014-03-02 15:11:50 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: that list is generated automatically from git; so people that have submitted under different names/emails will be listed twice; feel free to clean the list up though it's in doc/release-notes.md
1034 2014-03-02 15:11:55 <TinkerTom> nm, already reported
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1036 2014-03-02 15:16:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: it was already cleaned up a few times -- early versions also had both Micha and Michagogo, for example
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1038 2014-03-02 15:18:29 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: for the same reason I suppose
1039 2014-03-02 15:18:41 <wumpus> people should really use consistent credentials for git
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1108 2014-03-02 16:53:38 <Michail1> sipa - 2 weeks ago we briefly spoke about running bitcoind on raspberry pi's.  I couldn't pull the directory from a centos machine (and thought it might have been an issue with the cent box not trimming the files when it moved on).  It was really determined that my bootstap.dat file was corrupt (stopping each time at a specific block).  Also, chainstate didn't work since pi used a variant
1109 2014-03-02 16:53:39 <Michail1> of levelDB.  In any case, I pulled the /blocks from a window machine, and ran with reindex.  It finished yesterday (just under two weeks).  As of this morning, I now have to pi's running as nodes.
1110 2014-03-02 16:54:42 HANTI is now known as hanti
1111 2014-03-02 16:54:44 <Burrito> two weeks, ouch.
1112 2014-03-02 16:54:52 <Burrito> Better than nothing :)
1113 2014-03-02 16:55:00 <CoinFinder> Hey, I'd like to discuss a useful feature for a transaction, but im not sure how much work would be involved in adding it
1114 2014-03-02 16:55:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|CoinFinder: What feature would that be?
1115 2014-03-02 16:55:50 <Michail1> :)  Well, yup.   But, for the costs (product and power), it's fun to have them going.  Obviously not production use; however, helping to support the network very cheaply.
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1117 2014-03-02 16:56:22 <Burrito> Michail1, yes, but I suspect other miniature computers with similar cost will do much better
1118 2014-03-02 16:56:31 <Burrito> but raspberry pis are abundant
1119 2014-03-02 16:56:42 <CoinFinder> An option to tag a transaction with a "SEND_ALL" and the *address*, rather than having to put in the actual transaction input ids.
1120 2014-03-02 16:57:02 <sipa> CoinFinder: you mean on the protocol level, or as a client feature?
1121 2014-03-02 16:57:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|CoinFinder: If I'm understanding what you mean correctly, that's a hard fork
1122 2014-03-02 16:57:13 <sipa> the former won't happen
1123 2014-03-02 16:57:44 <Michail1> Burrito - agreed.   Next project (since this is done), will be to do it with an MK809  (RK3188 proc).   So, if anyone needs help with pi, I have quite the lot of failures already completed.
1124 2014-03-02 16:57:49 <sipa> (makes tracking confirmations very hard, and doesn't protect against replay attacks)
1125 2014-03-02 16:57:54 <CoinFinder> the reason i mention is because, it would allow the creation of transactions offline that do not need to know the balance of an address.
1126 2014-03-02 16:58:15 <sipa> CoinFinder: you don't need to know the balance of an address, ever
1127 2014-03-02 16:58:23 <sipa> CoinFinder: you need to know the value of the coin you're spending
1128 2014-03-02 16:58:26 <CoinFinder> sipa: indeed, but you need to know the transactions
1129 2014-03-02 16:58:27 <CoinFinder> yea
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1131 2014-03-02 16:58:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|CoinFinder: Address balances don't exist.
1132 2014-03-02 16:58:50 <sipa> CoinFinder: anyway, yeah, that's a useful feature
1133 2014-03-02 16:58:51 <CoinFinder> inded, theyre just a side-effect of unspent inputs
1134 2014-03-02 16:58:57 <sipa> but it's very hard to fit in securely
1135 2014-03-02 16:58:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In the Bitcoin system, there are only txos
1136 2014-03-02 16:59:02 <sipa> and it's indeed a hard fork
1137 2014-03-02 16:59:07 <CoinFinder> basically it goes back to an idea of creating Transactions to use as interfaces, ie You make an address, create all transactions that you will need to perform in future. SHred private key
1138 2014-03-02 16:59:17 <CoinFinder> then the Only way to use the address would be to call one of the transactions
1139 2014-03-02 16:59:28 <CoinFinder> But that would make it impossible to add new coin to the address
1140 2014-03-02 16:59:46 <CoinFinder> obviously, im using address as simpler way of explaining what i mean
1141 2014-03-02 16:59:47 <sipa> furthermore, it means that validation nodes would need to track address balances (unnecessary)
1142 2014-03-02 16:59:58 <CoinFinder> sipa: true, they would have to track that themselves.
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1146 2014-03-02 17:00:34 <CoinFinder> there has to be some way to do this. It would make wallets "hack-proof" in a sense, as the private keys would be lost.
1147 2014-03-02 17:01:06 <CoinFinder> Obviously, single tx per address would work too. hmm
1148 2014-03-02 17:01:25 <sipa> assuming a hypothetical world without address reuse (which we aim for), there is not much to gain from that
1149 2014-03-02 17:01:44 <sipa> every key only ever gets one txout, and when it gets spent, the key is useless
1150 2014-03-02 17:02:02 <CoinFinder> Well, for instance - a mining pool's coins would be secure against theft
1151 2014-03-02 17:02:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm?
1152 2014-03-02 17:02:31 <sipa> no they wouldn't
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1154 2014-03-02 17:03:01 <sipa> if the key is stolen before the coins are transferred
1155 2014-03-02 17:03:15 <sipa> also, just not reusing addresses has the same effect with much lower costs to the network
1156 2014-03-02 17:03:24 <CoinFinder> sipa: you mean if the key is stolen before it is removed
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1159 2014-03-02 17:03:59 <sipa> i suppose
1160 2014-03-02 17:04:17 <CoinFinder> Say i receive 100 btc into an account. I create 10 transactions to 10 different addresses, of which i have 10 private keys in 10 different servers. Now, i know that the attacker would have to compromise the transactions first to find out where i plan to send, then all 10 of the locations if i knew that my first machine was compromised.
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1163 2014-03-02 17:05:08 <sipa> i'm not following
1164 2014-03-02 17:05:49 <CoinFinder> ok, i have server 1. with my 100 btc in. So i create offline transactions to send this 100 btc to 10 different locations, but i dont relay any of these transactions. After doing this, i store them, and shred the wallet file/private key etc.
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1166 2014-03-02 17:06:05 <CoinFinder> I now have a way to transfer the coins to 1 of 10 locations (as doublespends wont work), but only those locations.
1167 2014-03-02 17:06:34 <sipa> ok
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1169 2014-03-02 17:07:13 <sipa> you can do this with normal transactions just as well
1170 2014-03-02 17:07:22 <CoinFinder> yes this can be done currently
1171 2014-03-02 17:07:23 <sipa> except you have to wait to see the crediting transaction first
1172 2014-03-02 17:07:31 <CoinFinder> exactly.
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1174 2014-03-02 17:08:06 <sipa> if you want extra security, you can use multisig instead
1175 2014-03-02 17:08:06 <CoinFinder> If i could do a "send_all", i could make the empty address, create the transactions, dispose of the key before the wallet had any value. This could even be "chained" (so the other addresses also are done the same)
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1181 2014-03-02 17:09:10 <CoinFinder> back
1182 2014-03-02 17:09:14 <sipa> how do you prevent replays
1183 2014-03-02 17:09:41 <CoinFinder> this is a good question
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1185 2014-03-02 17:09:57 <CoinFinder> and ur point about the processing required also (so a possible ddos angle)
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1187 2014-03-02 17:10:12 <sipa> how do you count balances with a given number of confirmations, given the extra indirection?
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1189 2014-03-02 17:10:22 <sipa> and yeah, address-based indexing is not going to happen
1190 2014-03-02 17:10:40 <CoinFinder> :) why not.. im sure facebook can give us their servers and we can distribute one to every miner :P
1191 2014-03-02 17:10:47 <sipa> miners?
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1193 2014-03-02 17:10:50 <sipa> it's not about miners
1194 2014-03-02 17:10:55 <sipa> miners are paid for their work
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1197 2014-03-02 17:11:05 <sipa> it's the rest of the network that has to validate them
1198 2014-03-02 17:11:25 <CoinFinder> sorry :)
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1200 2014-03-02 17:11:49 <sipa> in any case, i understand the use case
1201 2014-03-02 17:12:03 <sipa> but it's very hard to safely and cheaply integrate
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1203 2014-03-02 17:12:15 <CoinFinder> yes, it seems so.
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1206 2014-03-02 17:14:25 <CoinFinder> maybe then it would be easier to have a "payforward" list for transactions? (though again that would vastly increase the size of the transaction)
1207 2014-03-02 17:14:39 <CoinFinder> and also make the addresses easily available to see
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1213 2014-03-02 17:21:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: Okay, I redid #3775
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1215 2014-03-02 17:21:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Did I miss anything?
1216 2014-03-02 17:23:49 CoinFinder has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
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1226 2014-03-02 17:33:37 <wallet42> can i use sendrawtransaction w/o actually sending it. so i just want to verify it would broadcast
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1228 2014-03-02 17:33:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wallet42: no
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1230 2014-03-02 17:34:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, you sort of can
1231 2014-03-02 17:34:16 <wallet42> maybe with some firewall rules? :D
1232 2014-03-02 17:34:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If it's not relevant to your wallet, just make sure you have no connections
1233 2014-03-02 17:34:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And then restart the node immediately after you try, to clear the mempool
1234 2014-03-02 17:34:53 <wallet42> thx michagogo
1235 2014-03-02 17:35:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If it is relevant to your wallet, you'll need to remove it from your wallet as well
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1243 2014-03-02 17:47:47 <dexX7> is it correct that the dust limit now changed to 564 instead of 5640 satoshi and "is this safe to use"?
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1246 2014-03-02 17:49:00 <sipa> the dust limit is "3 times the marginal cost for spending an extra output, according to a node's BTC/kb relay policy"
1247 2014-03-02 17:49:17 <sipa> you can set that relay policy yourself
1248 2014-03-02 17:49:56 <sipa> but in 0.9, the default will be 1000 satoshi per kB, resulting in some 500 satoshi as dust limit indeed
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1250 2014-03-02 17:51:09 <dexX7> ah thanks
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1266 2014-03-02 18:19:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|dexX7: you have the 6 and 4 transposed
1267 2014-03-02 18:20:25 <dexX7> yea, right
1268 2014-03-02 18:20:27 <dexX7> typo :)
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1270 2014-03-02 18:22:56 <dexX7> i guess it will take some time until the pools adapt (except eligius)
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1284 2014-03-02 18:37:17 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: you're assuming pools will accept this change
1285 2014-03-02 18:38:37 <dexX7> is that assumption wrong?
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1287 2014-03-02 18:39:12 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: it's bad to assume anything like that
1288 2014-03-02 18:39:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Uh, wtf? http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32045987/
1289 2014-03-02 18:39:24 chmod755 has joined
1290 2014-03-02 18:39:40 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: whether miners change fee rules *should* be entirely independent from developer actions
1291 2014-03-02 18:39:50 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: yeah, my thought too
1292 2014-03-02 18:40:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I checked, 88.198.199.140 is indeed bitcoin.org)
1293 2014-03-02 18:41:15 xabbix has joined
1294 2014-03-02 18:41:17 <Luke-Jr> also, why is bitcoin.org now being treated as the website for Bitcoin Core? it was supposed to be independent..
1295 2014-03-02 18:42:07 <chmod755> Luke-Jr, is there another website for bitcoin core?
1296 2014-03-02 18:42:31 <Luke-Jr> chmod755: there is a GitHub and SourceForge project
1297 2014-03-02 18:42:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Idk
1298 2014-03-02 18:42:40 <sipa> we have bitcoincore.org as well
1299 2014-03-02 18:42:41 <Luke-Jr> don't see why it needs more
1300 2014-03-02 18:42:50 <_syslog> michagogo|cloud:  ovh sometimes made stupid actions.
1301 2014-03-02 18:42:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I was surprised to see 0.8.6 downloads being hosted there
1302 2014-03-02 18:42:54 <sipa> i think the reference client project shoukd move there
1303 2014-03-02 18:43:00 <Luke-Jr> sipa: that looks more appropriate
1304 2014-03-02 18:43:03 <chmod755> sipa, good idea
1305 2014-03-02 18:43:17 <Luke-Jr> even has 0.8.1 bins already
1306 2014-03-02 18:43:19 <Luke-Jr> XD
1307 2014-03-02 18:43:46 <chmod755> people want something that looks like an official website....even when it's not really necessary
1308 2014-03-02 18:45:02 <chmod755> i'm using v0.9.0rc1-92-g39fae6c-dirty-beta
1309 2014-03-02 18:45:31 <chmod755> but it doesn't have any dirty pictures in it
1310 2014-03-02 18:45:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chmod755: you could upgrade to rc2
1311 2014-03-02 18:46:04 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: that won't get him any dirty pictures either
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1313 2014-03-02 18:46:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Didn't someone stuff those into the blockchain at some point?
1314 2014-03-02 18:46:26 <chmod755> lmao
1315 2014-03-02 18:46:32 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: not really; there is nowhere to store data in the blockchain
1316 2014-03-02 18:46:41 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser
1317 2014-03-02 18:46:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Sure, but people have done it anyway :-P
1318 2014-03-02 18:46:47 <chmod755> why is it named 'dirty-beta'?
1319 2014-03-02 18:47:00 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: it's not data if it isn't data!
1320 2014-03-02 18:47:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(to be clear, I'm unhappy about it just as you are)
1321 2014-03-02 18:47:22 <Luke-Jr> it's just an unclaimed public key
1322 2014-03-02 18:47:28 <Luke-Jr> nothing more
1323 2014-03-02 18:47:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...
1324 2014-03-02 18:48:22 <Luke-Jr> bytes are just bytes without a context to interpret them in
1325 2014-03-02 18:48:37 <Luke-Jr> the only context on the bitcoin blockchain, is financial transaction
1326 2014-03-02 18:48:40 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1327 2014-03-02 18:48:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...riiight.
1328 2014-03-02 18:48:51 <Luke-Jr> so, interpreting them as an image is inherently wrong :p
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1330 2014-03-02 18:49:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Except that people have created false finanimages.
1331 2014-03-02 18:49:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|actions that can be easily extracted as images.
1332 2014-03-02 18:49:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bah
1333 2014-03-02 18:49:23 <chmod755> https://xkcd.com/386/
1334 2014-03-02 18:49:30 <sipa> chmod755: dirty is because you built from an unclean source directory
1335 2014-03-02 18:49:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I hate how sometimes the window loses focus and regains it
1336 2014-03-02 18:49:43 <sipa> chmod755: beta because every bitcoin release is beta
1337 2014-03-02 18:49:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|except that people have created false financial transactions that can be ~easily extracted as images.
1338 2014-03-02 18:50:13 <chmod755> thanks sipa
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1340 2014-03-02 18:50:44 <Luke-Jr> bccore*
1341 2014-03-02 18:51:06 <Luke-Jr> sipa: can we make the next version be 0.11 just to confuse people?
1342 2014-03-02 18:51:16 markus__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1343 2014-03-02 18:51:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chmod755: If you feel like upgrading to 0.9.0rc2 without building yourself, you can get the bins from somewhere on bitcoin.org
1344 2014-03-02 18:51:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or from michagogo.cadoth.net
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1346 2014-03-02 18:53:38 <chmod755> lol Luke-Jr
1347 2014-03-02 18:53:59 <chmod755> Luke-Jr, why don't you make it tonal?
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1349 2014-03-02 18:56:34 <Luke-Jr> chmod755: shhhhh
1350 2014-03-02 18:56:45 <chmod755> :X
1351 2014-03-02 18:56:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: s/0.11/0.
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1353 2014-03-02 18:56:48 <sipa> the next version is obvioudly 0.A
1354 2014-03-02 18:56:54 <sipa> *obviously
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1356 2014-03-02 18:57:34 <waxwing> lol
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1359 2014-03-02 18:58:19 <Luke-Jr> sipa: okay
1360 2014-03-02 18:58:21 <waxwing> 1.0 in 2140 I guess
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1413 2014-03-02 19:44:58 <speed-> noob question, i am building bitcoind on ubuntu and it's complaining about libdb, if i use --with-incompatible-bdb, will that have impact on anything about wallets?
1414 2014-03-02 19:45:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|speed-: yes
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1416 2014-03-02 19:45:39 <speed-> michagogo|cloud, what kind of impact?
1417 2014-03-02 19:45:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Basically, a wallet that has been created or opened with a Bitcoin Core built with BDB 5.1 is incompatible with Bitcoin Core built with BDB 4.8
1418 2014-03-02 19:46:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|4.8 is what is used for release binaries.
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1420 2014-03-02 19:47:20 <speed-> uhm ok then I will just use binary :)
1421 2014-03-02 19:47:35 <speed-> I hope it will work with newer libdb on system
1422 2014-03-02 19:47:38 <speed-> will see in few minutes :)
1423 2014-03-02 19:47:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|speed-: the release binaries are statically linked
1424 2014-03-02 19:48:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, you can just get BDB 4.8
1425 2014-03-02 19:48:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|IIRC there are packages for it in the ppa
1426 2014-03-02 19:48:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;lucky bitcoin ppa
1427 2014-03-02 19:48:25 <gribble> https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
1428 2014-03-02 19:48:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|^
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1431 2014-03-02 19:50:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|speed-: If you do want to build yourself, `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin; sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install libdb4.8-dev libdb4.8++-dev
1432 2014-03-02 19:50:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|`
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1436 2014-03-02 19:52:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-unix.md#berkeley-db
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1441 2014-03-02 19:54:12 <speed-> thanks :)
1442 2014-03-02 19:54:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|np
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1444 2014-03-02 19:54:25 <speed-> i was just doing that michagogo|cloud and then I saw you posted everything <3 :)
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1540 2014-03-02 21:13:42 <chichov> is there any reference for the currently supported script templates?
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1542 2014-03-02 21:13:56 <sipa> define "supported"
1543 2014-03-02 21:13:58 <chichov> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transactions only describes Pay-to-PubkeyHash
1544 2014-03-02 21:14:16 <chichov> not disabled?
1545 2014-03-02 21:14:27 <chichov> as in accepted by nodes in the network
1546 2014-03-02 21:14:27 <sipa> usable by wallets?
1547 2014-03-02 21:14:35 <sipa> relayed by the network?
1548 2014-03-02 21:14:38 <sipa> acceptable in blocks?
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1550 2014-03-02 21:14:57 <chichov> it is already interesting that there is a discrepancy between those
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1552 2014-03-02 21:15:09 <chichov> lets see, how about the wallets?
1553 2014-03-02 21:15:13 <sipa> templated supported by wallets are just whatever a particular wallet implements
1554 2014-03-02 21:15:27 <chichov> the reference implementation?
1555 2014-03-02 21:16:19 <sipa> pay-to-pubkey, pay-to-pubkey-hash, multisig up to 3 pubkeys in case they are all in one wallet, and p2sh
1556 2014-03-02 21:16:49 <chichov> is there any reference on the data structures of these templates?
1557 2014-03-02 21:16:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Of those, only pay-to-pubkey-hash is normally used (addresses given to the user)
1558 2014-03-02 21:17:02 <chichov> just as in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transactions for Pay-to-PubkeyHash
1559 2014-03-02 21:17:21 <chichov> I've seen Pay-to-Pubkey flying around sometimes
1560 2014-03-02 21:17:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chichov: there's ,,(lucky --snippet bitcoin p2sh)
1561 2014-03-02 21:17:30 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016 | Dec 6, 2013 ... This page describes a BIP (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal). ... Retrieved from " https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=BIP_0016&oldid=42907".
1562 2014-03-02 21:17:38 OperatorSyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1563 2014-03-02 21:17:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Pay-to-pubkey is simply <pubkey> CHECKSIG
1564 2014-03-02 21:18:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chichov: have you read ,,(bc,wiki script)?
1565 2014-03-02 21:18:23 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script | 6 days ago ... Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Forth-like, Script is simple, stack- based, and processed from left to right. It is purposefully not ...
1566 2014-03-02 21:18:46 <sipa> and multisig is: <n> <pubkey1> <pubkey2> <pubkey3> OP_MULTSIGCHECK
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1568 2014-03-02 21:19:34 <sipa> and p2sh is: OP_HASH160 <scripthash> OP_EQUAL
1569 2014-03-02 21:19:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: almost
1570 2014-03-02 21:19:41 <chichov> alright, four different script templates then: pay-to-pubkey, pay-to-pubkey-hash, multisig and p2sh
1571 2014-03-02 21:19:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|CHECKMULTISIG*
1572 2014-03-02 21:19:58 <chichov> I've read the wiki, but I haven't stumbled upon what is actually supported
1573 2014-03-02 21:20:13 <xabbix> Can anyone help me understand how I get from the sha256 hash hex to the private key? I'm trying to imitate the process of creating a brainwallet in nodejs.
1574 2014-03-02 21:20:14 <sipa> well, what is being relayed by nodes is just a policy
1575 2014-03-02 21:20:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chichov: look in the code for IsStandard
1576 2014-03-02 21:20:30 <chichov> michagogo|cloud: which file?
1577 2014-03-02 21:20:32 <sipa> it's by no means a network rule
1578 2014-03-02 21:20:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|xabbix: a privkey is just a 256-bit number
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1581 2014-03-02 21:21:01 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: almost :)
1582 2014-03-02 21:21:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Except for a certain range if high numbers)
1583 2014-03-02 21:21:37 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|isn't at his computer with easy access to the number
1584 2014-03-02 21:21:46 <xabbix> michagogo|cloud, I'm not very experienced with crypto stuff.. for the passphrase '123456' I generated this sha256 hash hex '8d969eef6ecad3c29a3a629280e686cf0c3f5d5a86aff3ca12020c923adc6c92', what is the process of getting to '5JteGPkoem5t3MG33AVPcnPrKHLWUUvL2jLzD58ruRa3FUsgUaw' which is the privkey of '123456'
1585 2014-03-02 21:22:03 <chichov> is there a BIP where multisig is described?
1586 2014-03-02 21:22:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|xabbix: ,,(bc,wiki wallet import format)
1587 2014-03-02 21:22:09 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_import_format | Dec 6, 2013 ... Wallet Import Format (WIF, also known as Wallet Export Format) is a way of encoding a private ECDSA key so as to make it easier to copy.
1588 2014-03-02 21:22:10 <sipa> chichov: it's standard bitcoin script
1589 2014-03-02 21:22:19 <sipa> xabbix: then you probably shouldn't be writing brainwallet stuff...
1590 2014-03-02 21:22:22 heypeeps has quit (Quit: heypeeps)
1591 2014-03-02 21:22:26 <xabbix> thanks sipa
1592 2014-03-02 21:22:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|xabbix: but you prob- what sipa said
1593 2014-03-02 21:22:43 <chichov> sipa: alright, thanks
1594 2014-03-02 21:22:56 <xabbix> guys please don't assume that i'm writing something for other users to use or for me to use with real money. I'm just experimenting.
1595 2014-03-02 21:23:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|xabbix: also, brainwallet a are baf
1596 2014-03-02 21:23:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Brainwallets are bad*
1597 2014-03-02 21:23:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Okay, good
1598 2014-03-02 21:23:28 <xabbix> :)
1599 2014-03-02 21:23:36 <xabbix> thanks for the link michagogo|cloud
1600 2014-03-02 21:24:00 <sipa> chichov: most network rules and policies that existed when satoshi was still leading bitcoin development aren't described anywjere
1601 2014-03-02 21:24:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|xabbix: for the maximum value of a privkey, look on ,,(bc,wiki private key), I think
1602 2014-03-02 21:24:02 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Private_key | Aug 18, 2013 ... A private key in the context of Bitcoin is a secret number that allows bitcoins to be spent. Every Bitcoin address has a matching private key, ...
1603 2014-03-02 21:24:22 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: a secp256k1 private key is a 255.9999999999999999999999999999999999999946 bit number (according to information theory)
1604 2014-03-02 21:25:15 <sipa> chichov: know that you can do _many_ interesting things with scripts just as they exist (though current policies may not relay them, they are valid inside blocks0
1605 2014-03-02 21:25:24 <sipa> chichov: even with several opcodes removed
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1608 2014-03-02 21:26:02 <midnightmagic> I've probably asked this before, but did satoshi (or anyone since) have anything to say about composable hash functions and/or arguments against? (not necessarily for the pow, but for the other hashing activities.)
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1611 2014-03-02 21:26:38 <sipa> composable hash functions?
1612 2014-03-02 21:27:06 <midnightmagic> f=sha256 g=ripemd, h=f(g(msg))
1613 2014-03-02 21:27:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Uh, that sounds like what we use
1614 2014-03-02 21:27:37 <midnightmagic> zooko et al were doing some work that seemed to suggest f or g can be broken without the integrity of the composite function being affected.
1615 2014-03-02 21:28:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, in the opposite direction though
1616 2014-03-02 21:28:08 <sipa> midnightmagic: that's just OP_RIPEMD160 OP_SHA256
1617 2014-03-02 21:28:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(As opposed to OP_HASH160 which is OP_SHA256 OP_RIPEMD160)
1618 2014-03-02 21:29:13 <midnightmagic> sipa: so it is already possible. Thanks, I'm sure you told me that before, for some reason I didn't think it was an issue.
1619 2014-03-02 21:29:23 <sipa> midnightmagic: correct
1620 2014-03-02 21:29:32 <sipa> eh
1621 2014-03-02 21:29:35 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: correct
1622 2014-03-02 21:29:59 <sipa> midnightmagic: i'm not very convinced that's the best way to combine hash functions though, if we're worried about them being broken individually
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1624 2014-03-02 21:30:44 <midnightmagic> sipa: How so? (I recognise you may not have a proof, perhaps only an intuition. I certainly won't quote you as asserting anything.)
1625 2014-03-02 21:31:32 <sipa> midnightmagic: depending on what you want to protect against, a collision on either ripemd160 or sha256 now becomes a collision on the composite
1626 2014-03-02 21:31:46 <sipa> note that for most things bitcoin we don't actually care about collisions, though
1627 2014-03-02 21:31:55 <gmaxwell> it depends if you care more about preimage or collision security.
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1629 2014-03-02 21:33:22 <chichov> it's harder to find a preimage than a collision
1630 2014-03-02 21:33:31 <chichov> and a preimage is the desirable target
1631 2014-03-02 21:33:34 <sipa> hopefully!
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1635 2014-03-02 21:35:05 <midnightmagic> how does a collision found on rmd160 or sha2 become a collision on the composite function? that seems counter-intuitive to me.
1636 2014-03-02 21:35:41 <sipa> if you have a and b such that ripemd160(a) == ripemd160(b), obviously sha256(ripemd160(a)) == sha256(ripemd160(b))
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1638 2014-03-02 21:36:31 <midnightmagic> sha256(a|rmd160(a)) ?
1639 2014-03-02 21:36:32 <sipa> also, if you have c and d such that sha256(c) == sha256(d), and c == ripemd16(e) and d == ripemd160(f), then sha256(ripemd160(e)) == sha256(ripemd160(f))
1640 2014-03-02 21:37:41 <midnightmagic> Note I'm satisfying my curiosity, not proposing anything, so my presentation of a composite function is from a position of ignorance.
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1643 2014-03-02 21:42:35 <midnightmagic> or as suggested here: http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg11041.html  c(x) = f(f(x)||g(x))
1644 2014-03-02 21:43:34 <midnightmagic> outer hash failure = c(x) fails..
1645 2014-03-02 21:43:34 <midnightmagic> hrm
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1647 2014-03-02 21:45:32 <midnightmagic> ah, a nice bibliography.
1648 2014-03-02 21:45:35 * midnightmagic goes away and reads.
1649 2014-03-02 21:46:24 <uiop> midnightmagic: from my just-read-15-lines-of-scrollback understanding, i think you mean "a collision in the inner function ==> a collision in the composite", but a collision in the outer doesn't give a collision in the composite but it *does* make finding a collision in the composite easier
1650 2014-03-02 21:46:33 <Diablo-D3> [04:35:59] <sipa> also, if you have c and d such that sha256(c) == sha256(d), and c == ripemd16(e) and d == ripemd160(f), then sha256(ripemd160(e)) == sha256(ripemd160(f))
1651 2014-03-02 21:46:40 <uiop> midnightmagic: in the sense that
1652 2014-03-02 21:46:43 <Diablo-D3> I think I learned this in 7th grade
1653 2014-03-02 21:48:33 <uiop> h(x) := g(f(x)). a,b s.t. g(a)==g(b). now, a collision in the composite can be either (1) c,d s.t. h(c)==h(d), OR (2) c,d s.t. f(c)==a and f(d)==b.
1654 2014-03-02 21:49:12 <uiop> (in other words, you can get a collision in the composite by using your knowledge of the particular collision you've found in the outer)
1655 2014-03-02 21:49:29 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1656 2014-03-02 21:49:42 * midnightmagic eliminates an obviously incorrect memory.
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1658 2014-03-02 21:50:37 * uiop wonders if he made sense
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1663 2014-03-02 21:53:04 <sipa> *blank stare*
1664 2014-03-02 21:55:17 <uiop> :)
1665 2014-03-02 21:55:40 BCB has joined
1666 2014-03-02 21:56:56 <uiop> midnightmagic: actually, if you assume that you have knowledge of the preimages of the two values (:= outputs of the inner function) which produce a collision in the outer function, you effectively have a collision in the composite function
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1668 2014-03-02 21:57:43 <midnightmagic> hrm..
1669 2014-03-02 21:57:56 <uiop> so i guess, "a collision in the outer + knowledge of the preimages (under the inner) of these colliding values ==> a collision in the composite"
1670 2014-03-02 21:57:56 <midnightmagic> uiop: thanks for the comments, they make enough sense that I don't have any questions.
1671 2014-03-02 21:58:03 <uiop> midnightmagic: np
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1674 2014-03-02 22:00:40 <uiop> heh, actually that's just a rewording of what i said initially, but it took me a minute to realize it
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1684 2014-03-02 22:05:30 <BCB> ‎is this necessary
1685 2014-03-02 22:05:47 <BCB> bitcoin-0.9.0rc2-linux/bin/64$ : You need to rebuild the database using -reindex to change -txindex.
1686 2014-03-02 22:06:06 <BCB> on an upgrade
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1697 2014-03-02 22:12:01 <sipa> BCB: has nothing to do with an upgrade
1698 2014-03-02 22:12:18 <sipa> only with changing the value of txindex
1699 2014-03-02 22:12:32 <BCB> so I need to reindex?
1700 2014-03-02 22:12:55 <sipa> if you want to enable/disable txindex, and it was previously disabled/enabled, yes
1701 2014-03-02 22:13:05 <BCB> it was previously enabled
1702 2014-03-02 22:13:17 <phantomcircuit> BCB, put txindex=1 in bitcoin.conf
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1704 2014-03-02 22:13:20 <phantomcircuit> then you can forget about it
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1706 2014-03-02 22:13:30 <BCB> phantomcircuit, that was already set
1707 2014-03-02 22:13:41 <BCB> I wasn't aware it would require reindexing
1708 2014-03-02 22:13:45 <BCB> it txindex
1709 2014-03-02 22:13:59 <sipa> what happened *now*?
1710 2014-03-02 22:14:09 <sipa> that triggered this question?
1711 2014-03-02 22:14:40 <BCB> sipa from debug.log: 2014-03-02 22:13:44 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
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1713 2014-03-02 22:14:56 <BCB> I upgraded to the current rc
1714 2014-03-02 22:16:07 embm has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1715 2014-03-02 22:16:20 <BCB> sipa seem to be upgraded and is currently reindexing the txindex
1716 2014-03-02 22:16:37 <BCB> sipa phantomcircuit is there a way to index addresses?
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1718 2014-03-02 22:16:54 <phantomcircuit> BCB, iirc it's a branch on sipa's github repo
1719 2014-03-02 22:17:01 <phantomcircuit> addrindex or something
1720 2014-03-02 22:17:02 <BCB> phantomcircuit, ahh yes
1721 2014-03-02 22:17:15 <phantomcircuit> why the shit is this python script using 100% cpu
1722 2014-03-02 22:17:20 <BCB> phantomcircuit, I'd have to recompile
1723 2014-03-02 22:17:26 <phantomcircuit> BCB, correct
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1725 2014-03-02 22:17:36 <phantomcircuit> what you dont have a 10k build server?
1726 2014-03-02 22:17:37 <phantomcircuit> :P
1727 2014-03-02 22:19:26 * Tricky1 back
1728 2014-03-02 22:20:13 <BCB> sipa will that branch work with rc9
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1735 2014-03-02 22:25:57 <BCB> phantomcircuit, do you know where that branch is located
1736 2014-03-02 22:26:08 <phantomcircuit> BCB, nope
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1739 2014-03-02 22:27:02 <sipa> BCB: no idea, and i don't care
1740 2014-03-02 22:27:13 <BCB> sipa hmmm
1741 2014-03-02 22:27:33 <BCB> sipa so you are saying I should not try to index the addresses
1742 2014-03-02 22:28:45 <sipa> if you need to, i think you're very likely doing it for the wrong reasons
1743 2014-03-02 22:28:56 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead]
1744 2014-03-02 22:29:18 <sipa> which is why instopped maintaining that branch
1745 2014-03-02 22:29:21 <sipa> * i stopped
1746 2014-03-02 22:30:03 <BCB> sipa I would like to look up transactions by address on a dedicated server
1747 2014-03-02 22:31:07 <phantomcircuit> BCB, yes but why
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1749 2014-03-02 22:32:12 <gmaxwell> Hopefully once we can perform real pruning it'll be okay to provide that option again because people will see the 20GBytes of disk space it takes up.
1750 2014-03-02 22:32:53 <BCB> phantomcircuit, because I'm interested?
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1752 2014-03-02 22:33:12 <sipa> BCB: interested in what?
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1757 2014-03-02 22:34:23 <BCB> sipa how the block chain works, how the addresses corelate
1758 2014-03-02 22:34:36 <sipa> ok
1759 2014-03-02 22:34:47 <BCB> Nice network traffic window on the bitcoin -qt by the way
1760 2014-03-02 22:35:03 <sipa> most people actually want it to look up their wallet's balance
1761 2014-03-02 22:35:23 <BCB> sipa,  I don't have a wallet balance
1762 2014-03-02 22:35:30 <sipa> for which it is a horribly inefficient, resource-wasting, unflexible and badly scaling method :)
1763 2014-03-02 22:35:33 <BCB> this is a testing server on the live net
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1765 2014-03-02 22:38:14 <BCB> sipa I guess I could just parse the blockchain and dup all the addresses in a db
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1767 2014-03-02 22:38:31 <sipa> it'll take a while :)
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1770 2014-03-02 22:38:40 <BCB> sipa but I figured it would be easier if the option already existed
1771 2014-03-02 22:38:53 <BCB> sipa, I'm in now hurry
1772 2014-03-02 22:38:58 <BCB> *no
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1838 2014-03-02 23:49:56 <[\\\]> Regarding .9.0 rc2, perhaps a note should be added to the release notes that .9.0 Windows x64 installs won't upgrade previous versions.  They'll most likely want to uninstall the old X86 version before/after installing .9.0 x64.
1839 2014-03-02 23:51:47 yubrew has joined
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1841 2014-03-02 23:54:04 <Persopolis> is there an implication to the wallet if migrating from x86 to amd64?
1842 2014-03-02 23:54:15 melvster has joined
1843 2014-03-02 23:55:05 <sipa> that's a very good question, and not sure it's been tested
1844 2014-03-02 23:55:11 <[\\\]> I just did
1845 2014-03-02 23:55:16 <[\\\]> but I've not tried going back down again
1846 2014-03-02 23:55:21 <[\\\]> I can
1847 2014-03-02 23:55:35 Gyps has quit (Quit: Gyps)
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1849 2014-03-02 23:56:00 <[\\\]> I installed .9rc2 (x64), uninstalled .8.6(X86), then ran .9rc2 for the first time without issue
1850 2014-03-02 23:56:16 <[\\\]> it verified blocks and started up.  Its currently sitting at 600MB of RAM
1851 2014-03-02 23:56:27 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1852 2014-03-02 23:56:30 <[\\\]> 584 to be exact
1853 2014-03-02 23:56:52 <Persopolis> [\\\] and did you have an active wallet on the x86 version before you installed .9 version?  and is that still intacts?
1854 2014-03-02 23:57:02 <[\\\]> yes to both
1855 2014-03-02 23:57:39 <[\\\]> It seemed to display everything correctly, but to be honest, I've not done a line by line comparision, but since the before and after balances match..
1856 2014-03-02 23:57:43 <[\\\]> 'balances'
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1858 2014-03-02 23:57:54 <Persopolis> the nasty test would be to start the upgrade with the x86 version still running :S
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1860 2014-03-02 23:58:06 <[\\\]> I can do that too.
1861 2014-03-02 23:58:21 <[\\\]> I backed up wallet.dat before upgrading. ;-)
1862 2014-03-02 23:58:46 <[\\\]> I like the shutdown window.
1863 2014-03-02 23:58:51 <Persopolis> send me your btc just to be safe :D
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1866 2014-03-02 23:59:50 <[\\\]> just reinstalled .8.6 along side .9(x64) and starting it now