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2 2014-03-11 00:02:03 <Luke-Jr> amiller: thanks
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23 2014-03-11 00:18:35 <rodrigo31> Hi?
24 2014-03-11 00:18:44 <sipa> Hi!
25 2014-03-11 00:19:07 <rodrigo31> :O someone said that i needed to have an account to talk here....
26 2014-03-11 00:19:11 <rodrigo31> lol
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28 2014-03-11 00:20:23 <rodrigo31> I have a question. I'm trying to crate something that I call "bitcoin analysis tool" .
29 2014-03-11 00:20:44 <rodrigo31> and i need to go through all the blocks on the blockchain
30 2014-03-11 00:20:48 Coincidental has joined
31 2014-03-11 00:20:54 <rodrigo31> can i do that with bitcoind ?
32 2014-03-11 00:21:52 AHornyMinerGirl is now known as Dominguet
33 2014-03-11 00:22:11 <Luke-Jr> rodrigo31: why bother?
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40 2014-03-11 00:24:04 <rodrigo31> Luke-Jr: what? why? i could tell you something like because I want.....
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42 2014-03-11 00:24:22 <airbreather> rodrigo31: tell us what you're trying to do, not how you're trying to do it
43 2014-03-11 00:25:37 <rodrigo31> I want to go throught all the blocks and analyse each one of them. I want to start from the first one and go until the last one.
44 2014-03-11 00:25:46 Belxjander has joined
45 2014-03-11 00:25:52 <sipa> you can call getblock <hash>
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47 2014-03-11 00:26:53 <Luke-Jr> rodrigo31: analyze in what way?
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49 2014-03-11 00:27:33 <airbreather> getblockhash <height> gives the hash, then getblock <hash> gives the json block.
50 2014-03-11 00:28:04 <airbreather> height 0 is the genesis block
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55 2014-03-11 00:32:15 <rodrigo31> airbreather: Thanks, that way i can start from 0 until getinfo.blocks...
56 2014-03-11 00:32:38 * Luke-Jr notes that is probably the slowest possible way
57 2014-03-11 00:33:31 <rodrigo31> Luke-Jr: do you know a faster way?
58 2014-03-11 00:33:35 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
59 2014-03-11 00:34:36 <Luke-Jr> read the block files directly
60 2014-03-11 00:35:21 <espringe> Calling: 'getrawtransaction' on 11347 transactions (in a batched jsonrpc req) ... crashed bitcoind [without my system running out of memory]
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63 2014-03-11 00:35:43 <espringe> Is that a bitcoin bug, or what's the sane limit I should do for batched requests?
64 2014-03-11 00:35:52 <rodrigo31> Luke-Jr: if you can point me a good link exaplaining how to do that...
65 2014-03-11 00:36:01 djcoin_ has joined
66 2014-03-11 00:36:14 <rodrigo31> because i'm using a python library to interact with bitcoind...
67 2014-03-11 00:36:41 <rodrigo31> if i could read the block files probably it would be better
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70 2014-03-11 00:37:34 <Luke-Jr> rodrigo31: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#block
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74 2014-03-11 00:41:36 <rodrigo31> Luke-Jr: it looks harder for me... I will try the easy path first... :)
75 2014-03-11 00:41:49 <rodrigo31> Maybe I will learn from my erros :)
76 2014-03-11 00:43:57 <jgarzik> drat, espringe dropped off
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91 2014-03-11 00:54:21 <raminnoodle> Is it possible to call the rpc command "sinelastblock" with a value of null or something in the string? On older clients I am able to pass in an empty string if its the first time im running sincelastblock however if I try on the new client it says cant find block and it only works if I dont pass any parameter at all
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96 2014-03-11 00:56:06 <sipa> jgarzik: espringe?
97 2014-03-11 00:56:25 <raminnoodle> listSinceBlock*
98 2014-03-11 00:56:49 <jgarzik> sipa, <espringe> Calling: 'getrawtransaction' on 11347 transactions (in a batched jsonrpc req) ... crashed bitcoind [without my system running out of memory]
99 2014-03-11 00:57:36 <jgarzik> Though clearly that is a bad idea, I'm curious if it was an rlimit or something else that killed bitcoind
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103 2014-03-11 01:01:03 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, how did it crash?
104 2014-03-11 01:01:14 <phantomcircuit> anything in dmesg?
105 2014-03-11 01:01:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, exactly!
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108 2014-03-11 01:01:43 <phantomcircuit> if it was an rlimit i would expect there to be something in dmesg
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110 2014-03-11 01:02:54 <jgarzik> I suppose I could try to reproduce, but I'm feeling lazy
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132 2014-03-11 01:20:06 <rodrigo31> 22 seconds 100 blocks ... to slow?
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150 2014-03-11 01:41:38 <ntio> do transactions have in them the previous address balance? Or the number of transfers out of that address?
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155 2014-03-11 01:43:38 <gmaxwell> ntio: see topic
156 2014-03-11 01:43:52 <gmaxwell> also, there are no balances at all in the actual implementation of the bitcoin system
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160 2014-03-11 01:45:10 <raminnoodle> am I crazy or am i really seeing negative confs? http://pastebin.com/ay4qz8fM
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170 2014-03-11 01:55:48 <gmaxwell> thats not output from bitcoind ... what is that from?
171 2014-03-11 01:56:15 <gmaxwell> (bitcoind can give a -1 for conflicted transactions, but it tells you the conflicts.. it also won't display amounts like that)
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193 2014-03-11 02:05:20 <MinerGirl> Hi, a little question, do you think doge is more profitable than 365Coin? im mining it a www.mingopool.com but im not sure. People say 1 365coin have value of 20 ~ 50 BTC cause only 1 total coin a day but, what do you think? And if you are mining at mingopool, do you know if is true that monthly bounty?Hi, a little question, do you think doge is more profitable than 365Coin? im mining it a www.mingopool.com but im not sure. People say
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200 2014-03-11 02:08:58 <raminnoodle> gmaxwell: thats from blockchain.info bitcoind rpc
201 2014-03-11 02:09:11 <raminnoodle> i guess they just send confs as negatives..
202 2014-03-11 02:10:56 ntio has left ("WeeChat 0.4.3")
203 2014-03-11 02:10:56 <gmaxwell> or they're busted...
204 2014-03-11 02:11:03 <gmaxwell> I sure hope they don't show them as negatives.
205 2014-03-11 02:11:19 <raminnoodle> lol.. iv sent two transactions and both of them are in the high 10s with negative sir
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217 2014-03-11 02:24:56 <alex_fun> hello
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219 2014-03-11 02:26:01 <alex_fun> how I can connect multiple gpu righs with cgiminer to remote rpc daemon on box 2? I done it already - server 2 ram 30 GB however some miners keep dropping off
220 2014-03-11 02:26:06 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
221 2014-03-11 02:26:10 <alex_fun> saying dead - then coming up again
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223 2014-03-11 02:26:22 nirom_ is now known as nirom
224 2014-03-11 02:26:42 <alex_fun> multiple rpd connections from the same username to daemon
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229 2014-03-11 02:29:51 <alex_fun> also is there any plans to implement zerocoin?
230 2014-03-11 02:29:58 <alex_fun> or similar solution
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239 2014-03-11 02:42:49 <warren> http://download1.rpmfusion.org/~warren/openssl/ Updated openssl packages for Fedora 19 and 20, GPG signed by me.
240 2014-03-11 02:44:03 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
241 2014-03-11 02:44:39 <warren> If anyone wants Fedora 21 ask me.
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247 2014-03-11 02:52:38 <gmaxwell> Anyone aware of any recent changes on master which would make the first getinfo call after a restart take 12 seconds for me?
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251 2014-03-11 02:54:06 <gmaxwell> it's 100% repeatable for me, so I can bisect... but it would go faster if someone had a guess. :)
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347 2014-03-11 04:11:47 <copumpkin> anyone run bitcoin stuff on ARM linux distros?
348 2014-03-11 04:12:04 <copumpkin> err, this probably isn't the best place to ask, sorry
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403 2014-03-11 04:55:14 <gffdffd> WTF
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412 2014-03-11 05:08:31 <saracen> 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000021146%
413 2014-03-11 05:08:37 <saracen> That's the percentage of keys found by people hitting directory.io altogether so far.
414 2014-03-11 05:08:56 phrackage has joined
415 2014-03-11 05:09:11 <gmaxwell> lol
416 2014-03-11 05:09:24 <saracen> Maybe I should put a progress bar up, as I'm still being crawled by people that clearly don't realise what they're doing
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421 2014-03-11 05:15:01 <ewust> I got to the end, and then it just gave me a blank page :(
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429 2014-03-11 05:24:45 <cornfeedhobo> some of these addreses had coins at them
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438 2014-03-11 05:30:55 <Barbossa> sorry, its very vague quest but I want to understand bitcoin code (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin).....
439 2014-03-11 05:31:01 <Barbossa> sorry, its very vague quest but I want to understand bitcoin code (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin).....
440 2014-03-11 05:31:05 RoboTedd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
441 2014-03-11 05:31:42 <Barbossa> can anyone tell me about the source to understand it properly
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447 2014-03-11 05:34:16 <SomeoneWeird> saracen, obviously it generates them on the fly?
448 2014-03-11 05:34:35 <SomeoneWeird> >_>
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455 2014-03-11 05:39:55 <cornfeedhobo> SomeoneWeird: you think it would grow faster
456 2014-03-11 05:40:04 <cornfeedhobo> if its otf
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461 2014-03-11 05:47:02 <saracen> SomeoneWeird: correct
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469 2014-03-11 05:54:21 <JimmyCoin> Hi, for some reason my bitcoin qt wallet has sent out .5 btc without any fees attached and I have had zero confirms in almost 24 hours. How can I fix this?
470 2014-03-11 05:55:22 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
471 2014-03-11 05:55:52 <gmaxwell> JimmyCoin: have you left it online during those 24 hours?
472 2014-03-11 05:56:06 <JimmyCoin> No I havent
473 2014-03-11 05:56:12 <gmaxwell> JimmyCoin: this should move to #bitcoin
474 2014-03-11 05:56:22 <JimmyCoin> Ok I am there thanks
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487 2014-03-11 06:07:54 <petertodd> jgarzik: done that scriptSig increase and wound up fixing the CHECKMULTISIG dummy arg mutability issue in the process: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3843
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517 2014-03-11 06:49:54 <gmaxwell> wumpus: I can't understand what substrata is saying.
518 2014-03-11 06:50:02 <gmaxwell> testnet=1 works just fine in my config... thats how I run testnet.
519 2014-03-11 06:50:19 <wumpus> hm I noticed in the GUI it doesn't work in the configuration file
520 2014-03-11 06:50:35 yubrew has joined
521 2014-03-11 06:51:32 <wumpus> the initialization order was changed around a bit (it's actually difficult now that the datadirectory can be configured through a registry setting *which are seperate for testnet/mainnet*)
522 2014-03-11 06:51:39 <gmaxwell> I don't understand that. ... oh you're saying that bitcoin-qt won't take testnet=1 in the config file but bitcoind will?! hm I have indeed not tested the gui that way.
523 2014-03-11 06:51:49 <wumpus> right
524 2014-03-11 06:52:25 <gmaxwell> (I have tested the gui with testnet, but I've been starting it with it on the commandline)
525 2014-03-11 06:52:42 <wumpus> the gui parses the command line to determine testnet/regtest/mainnet, then determines based on that where to look for registry settings, and only then determines the data directory
526 2014-03-11 06:52:51 <wumpus> yeah on the command line it works fine, I always use that
527 2014-03-11 06:52:51 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser
528 2014-03-11 06:53:43 <wumpus> and from this data directory it derives the configuration file name, then parses the configuration... the 'choice of network' was made a long time ago then
529 2014-03-11 06:54:02 <wumpus> always fun those chicken and egg problems :-)
530 2014-03-11 06:55:18 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
531 2014-03-11 06:55:58 <wumpus> but his (2) is stranger
532 2014-03-11 06:56:08 <wumpus> he had to move the testnet files to the datadir root? huh?
533 2014-03-11 06:56:27 <wumpus> I can't think of any case where that would be necessary
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541 2014-03-11 07:04:41 <wallet42> P(dorian == Nakamoto) ?
542 2014-03-11 07:05:04 <wumpus> enough of the satoshi speculation already
543 2014-03-11 07:05:41 <wallet42> sry i was disconnected for about a week and im just catching up and i wanted to know what -dev thinks
544 2014-03-11 07:06:00 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
545 2014-03-11 07:06:10 <SomeoneWeird> wallet42, offtopic
546 2014-03-11 07:06:26 <SomeoneWeird> wallet42, #bitcoin-satoshispeculation
547 2014-03-11 07:07:07 <wallet42> SomeoneWeird: sorry for being OT
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567 2014-03-11 07:35:12 <storeaff> hi. have you used Armory fragmented backups?
568 2014-03-11 07:35:59 <cornfeedhobo> storeaff: #bitcoin
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612 2014-03-11 08:23:43 <Gouou> hey guys, when using btc daemon (rpc) do you use "accounts"? i'm thinking of doing a tipping bot for some altcoin and was wondering it's worth using "accounts" or is it better to store them in my own database
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614 2014-03-11 08:25:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gouou: no, don't use bitcoind's accounts
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616 2014-03-11 08:25:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Especially not for handling multiple peoples' money
617 2014-03-11 08:25:32 <cornfeedhobo> storeaff: oops, i thought i was in a different chan :3
618 2014-03-11 08:25:41 <wumpus> indeed, don't use accounts, build your own database-based system
619 2014-03-11 08:25:43 <Gouou> michagogo|cloud: performance issue or security issue?
620 2014-03-11 08:25:57 <wumpus> it's going to be deprecated/removed
621 2014-03-11 08:26:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gouou: I mean, you can use accounts, iff you can afford to lose that data at any time :-P
622 2014-03-11 08:26:14 <Gouou> wumpus: oh it makes sense to not to use them
623 2014-03-11 08:26:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They're all kinds of broken and/or weird, depending on how you look at it
624 2014-03-11 08:27:11 <wumpus> and for a good reasons.. for one, the current implementation sucks and behaves surprising to many people, also everyone wants something else from an account system, also managing third-party deposits is outside the scope of the reference client
625 2014-03-11 08:27:20 <Gouou> michagogo|cloud: what's the best way for checking incoming transactions?
626 2014-03-11 08:27:59 <Gouou> listreceivedbyaddress with excluded empty, seems a little bit un efficient for me
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629 2014-03-11 08:28:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gouou: see the "help" rpc
630 2014-03-11 08:29:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think there was one called listsinceblock which might be helpful
631 2014-03-11 08:29:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, walletnotify is helpful
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633 2014-03-11 08:29:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It runs a command when a wallet transaction is received (and again when it confirms, iirc)
634 2014-03-11 08:30:18 <Gouou> michagogo|cloud: thanks man i will look into it
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636 2014-03-11 08:31:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gouou: but I'm not completely familiar with all of the RPC calls, so definitely look at the list
637 2014-03-11 08:31:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(The `help` rpc)
638 2014-03-11 08:31:44 <Gouou> \help rpc
639 2014-03-11 08:31:51 <Gouou> ffs :D nvm
640 2014-03-11 08:32:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And then `help #{command}` will give you details about individual calls
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642 2014-03-11 08:32:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, and I'd suggest using 0.9.0rc, since the help texts were redone since 0.8
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645 2014-03-11 08:34:04 <jouke> wumpus: the account-system will be deprecated? :( eta?
646 2014-03-11 08:34:49 <wumpus> jouke: it will be removed in JSON API v2, along with a few other RPC changes, no eta yet
647 2014-03-11 08:35:37 <wumpus> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3816 and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3759
648 2014-03-11 08:37:16 <jouke> tnx
649 2014-03-11 08:37:19 petcat has joined
650 2014-03-11 08:38:10 <wumpus> note that 'labeling' of receiving addresses will continue to exist, just the account balances and 'virtual transactions' (with 'move') are going away
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661 2014-03-11 08:51:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;topic
662 2014-03-11 08:51:18 <gribble> Development of the Bitcoin; This is for discussion about the Bitcoin network and reference software between developers. | http://bitcoin.org/ https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ | This channel is logged: http://bitcoinstats.com/ | There is no from address | No altcoin/bc.i/mtgox/bitstamp support | tell us what you're trying to do, not how you're trying to do it | register to talk
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684 2014-03-11 09:23:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If we're going to have an rc3, can we have 0.9.0rc3-linux?
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714 2014-03-11 09:54:57 <speed-> hey, maybe this is not question for here, but still any idea why my wallet can't connect anywhere, even tho I added like 30+ nodes? :/
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716 2014-03-11 09:55:32 <speed-> always says 'No block source available'
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725 2014-03-11 09:59:46 <speed-> ah nevermind :p
726 2014-03-11 09:59:53 <speed-> solved it, thanks anyway \o :)
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737 2014-03-11 10:07:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|11:22:48 <michagogo|cloud> If we're going to have an rc3, can we have 0.9.0rc3-linux? <-- To clarify: contrast with 0.9.0rc3, compare to 0.9.0rc3-win
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741 2014-03-11 10:09:13 <vegard> so for long periods of time (while doing the initial block chain download) the server seems to get stuck. it doesn't answer rpc requests and 'netstat' shows that incoming data from other nodes is stuck on the recvq
742 2014-03-11 10:10:02 <vegard> the log is full of (only) "UpdateTip: new best=..." messages while this is going on
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744 2014-03-11 10:12:50 <wumpus> vegard: this is with 0.9?
745 2014-03-11 10:14:07 <vegard> v0.9.0rc2-17-gd33f69a
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750 2014-03-11 10:21:24 <wumpus> ok IMO that warrants a github issue
751 2014-03-11 10:21:46 TD has joined
752 2014-03-11 10:22:01 <vegard> I'll try to debug it :-)
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759 2014-03-11 10:30:34 <vegard> it got stuck for like 35 minutes and finally started responding now after saying "ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED" in the log
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768 2014-03-11 10:34:35 <vegard> guess it was just stuck on the cs_main lock taken in ProcessMessage() for received "block" messages
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786 2014-03-11 10:46:53 <fanquake> ;;blocks
787 2014-03-11 10:46:53 <gribble> 290018
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801 2014-03-11 10:59:07 <noone2014> hello
802 2014-03-11 10:59:47 kurtosis has joined
803 2014-03-11 11:00:48 <noone2014> I am new to IRC and I want to ask question about Multibit client. How may I do it?
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805 2014-03-11 11:01:55 <wumpus> depends on the kind of question, this is a development channel, not tech support
806 2014-03-11 11:01:57 <t7> maybe search for a multibit channel or ask in #bitcoin
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817 2014-03-11 11:11:46 <noone2014> this is a development question. I am trying to compile Miltibit on Windows (IDEA 13.0.2) and I am stuck with 2 test failures. Where can I look for explanations? Can I post errors here?
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819 2014-03-11 11:13:08 <nkuttler> noone2014: ask in #multibit, this channel is for the reference software
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821 2014-03-11 11:14:00 <noone2014> OK, thanks
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827 2014-03-11 11:24:16 <lagarde_> !seen gavinandresen
828 2014-03-11 11:24:17 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 17 hours, 16 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> writing code that might be picked up by script-kiddies to disrupt parts of the network isn't particularly helpful
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854 2014-03-11 12:03:13 <t7> gavinandresen hates full disclosure
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882 2014-03-11 12:48:56 <lagarde_> !seen tysat
883 2014-03-11 12:48:57 <gribble> I have not seen tysat.
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1075 2014-03-11 15:39:36 <sipa> petertodd: are you sure you can fit a checkmultisig of 15 keys in 510 bytes?
1076 2014-03-11 15:40:22 <sipa> OP_n + 15*(push 33 bytes) + OP_MULTICHECKSIG = 2 + 15*34 = 512
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1082 2014-03-11 15:45:29 <waxwing> sipa, I thought the limit was 520?
1083 2014-03-11 15:45:51 <waxwing> btw I tried 8/15 and 14/15 today via Eligius; the first was OK, the second rejected
1084 2014-03-11 15:47:11 <gavinandresen> waxwing: what is your use case for those? or are you just fooling around?
1085 2014-03-11 15:47:27 <waxwing> voting pool type thing
1086 2014-03-11 15:47:35 <waxwing> although 14/15 was really playing around
1087 2014-03-11 15:48:16 <waxwing> is there a sigopcount issue? I only ask from scanning around the code
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1090 2014-03-11 15:51:58 <TD> wumpus: ping
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1095 2014-03-11 15:54:59 <wumpus> pong
1096 2014-03-11 15:55:09 <sipa> waxwing: ugh, right :)
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1098 2014-03-11 15:56:03 <jgarzik> I continue to want to lib-ify Bitcoin Core C++ code, and use it in my own projects
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1100 2014-03-11 15:56:54 <TD> wumpus: what's your email address?
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1102 2014-03-11 15:57:08 <jgarzik> libbitcoin_common.a unfortunately fails to capture a lot of the useful code. You need libbitcoin_server.a too
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1104 2014-03-11 15:57:25 <wumpus> right, you'd have to change the split a bit
1105 2014-03-11 15:57:38 <jgarzik> main.cpp is still too fat :)
1106 2014-03-11 15:57:45 <sipa> jgarzik: it absolutely is
1107 2014-03-11 15:57:52 <wumpus> agreed there
1108 2014-03-11 15:58:07 <wumpus> TD: see pm
1109 2014-03-11 15:58:08 <sipa> the largest problem imho is the very unclear separation between net/protocol and main
1110 2014-03-11 15:58:15 <TD> yup thanks
1111 2014-03-11 15:58:43 <sipa> the node-specific data structures are mostly accessed from main, which does the protocol handling
1112 2014-03-11 15:58:48 <sipa> while they're defined in net
1113 2014-03-11 15:59:05 <jgarzik> main.cpp is really The Thing That Glues Everything Together
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1116 2014-03-11 15:59:17 <wumpus> ideally, main shouldn't care about nodes at all, just the blockchain and blocks
1117 2014-03-11 15:59:20 <sipa> i'm going to propose something controversial:
1118 2014-03-11 15:59:25 <sipa> merge main and net
1119 2014-03-11 15:59:36 <sipa> and then split validation from protocol handling
1120 2014-03-11 15:59:42 <wumpus> make it fatter :)
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1122 2014-03-11 15:59:49 <jgarzik> main is really "handle P2P messages, resulting in a blockchain"
1123 2014-03-11 15:59:49 <sipa> yes, but currently it's horrible
1124 2014-03-11 15:59:58 <jgarzik> move all the useful helpers out of main
1125 2014-03-11 16:00:01 <sipa> it seems to try to separate the two
1126 2014-03-11 16:00:02 <jgarzik> keep core logic
1127 2014-03-11 16:00:03 <sipa> but it does not
1128 2014-03-11 16:00:04 <wumpus> yes, split validation from protocol handling
1129 2014-03-11 16:00:21 <sipa> from the file names, you'd say that net is protocol handling and main is validation
1130 2014-03-11 16:00:26 <sipa> and for the headers that is true
1131 2014-03-11 16:00:29 <sipa> but not for the code
1132 2014-03-11 16:00:32 <jgarzik> IMO the core core of main is ProcessMessage()... everything branches out from there
1133 2014-03-11 16:00:42 <sipa> and SendMessages
1134 2014-03-11 16:00:44 <wumpus> sipa: yes that gets me every time!
1135 2014-03-11 16:00:46 <jgarzik> yes
1136 2014-03-11 16:01:01 <wumpus> I try to look up where a certain P2P message is handled and I look in net.cpp
1137 2014-03-11 16:01:02 <sipa> so main is constantly locking net's mutexes
1138 2014-03-11 16:01:08 <sipa> which it would have no need for if it just has its own
1139 2014-03-11 16:01:18 <sipa> i've tried to do that partially already
1140 2014-03-11 16:01:25 <sipa> by adding CNodeState in main
1141 2014-03-11 16:01:32 <sipa> which net is oblivious about
1142 2014-03-11 16:01:45 <gmaxwell> before I start bisecting, anyone know why the first run of getinfo after a restart is taking my laptop 12 seconds?
1143 2014-03-11 16:01:57 <sipa> imho, pretty much everything except raw p2p message handling should move from CNode to CNodeState
1144 2014-03-11 16:01:58 <gmaxwell> I believe this is a new behavior in master as of the last couple weeks.
1145 2014-03-11 16:02:08 <wumpus> gmaxwell: large wallet?
1146 2014-03-11 16:02:25 <wumpus> in that case could be the vtxprev/spent removal change
1147 2014-03-11 16:02:27 <jgarzik> debug.log shows nothing? any keypool activity?
1148 2014-03-11 16:02:36 <gmaxwell> wumpus: not really large, 1300 transactions or so.
1149 2014-03-11 16:02:59 <sipa> or maybe rather the try-to-recover-metadata-of-conflicts thing
1150 2014-03-11 16:03:02 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, approx number of keys?
1151 2014-03-11 16:03:05 <wumpus> apart from that I know of nothing that would make getinfo slower, we didn't add anything to it for long
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1153 2014-03-11 16:03:11 <gmaxwell> ah. point, okay I'll bisect, it's easy to test.
1154 2014-03-11 16:03:25 <gmaxwell> I think I would have noticed if it were the conflicts stuff...
1155 2014-03-11 16:03:35 <gmaxwell> (just because I was testing that pretty actively)
1156 2014-03-11 16:04:20 <sipa> hmm, only the first time
1157 2014-03-11 16:04:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: can you isolate it to computing the wallet balance?
1158 2014-03-11 16:04:44 <sipa> so getbalance without getinfo should exhibit the same behaviour
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1161 2014-03-11 16:05:23 <tonikt> hi guys. i'm working on making multisig txs. can anyone please give me some clue what OP_0 is doing at the beginning of each sigscript that spends a P2SH output - what is it for?
1162 2014-03-11 16:05:33 <sipa> tonikt: working around abug
1163 2014-03-11 16:05:47 <sipa> checkmultisig pops off one element too many
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1165 2014-03-11 16:06:03 <jgarzik> I <heart> git bisect run my_script
1166 2014-03-11 16:06:43 <tonikt> sipa: oh, ok - so it just must be there?
1167 2014-03-11 16:06:52 <sipa> yes
1168 2014-03-11 16:06:52 <tonikt> thx
1169 2014-03-11 16:07:01 <jgarzik> tonikt, yes, for historical reasons (hysterical raisins)
1170 2014-03-11 16:07:47 <tonikt> ok, got you. cheers
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1172 2014-03-11 16:08:05 <gmaxwell> sipa: yes, the getbalance is the slow thing.
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1179 2014-03-11 16:10:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: sounds like slow balance computation (perhaps because of the mempool checking?), which then gets cached
1180 2014-03-11 16:10:26 <sipa> 12s is really quite ridiculous
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1184 2014-03-11 16:11:48 <gmaxwell> yea, and this wallet is not huge. I think there are 200 keys in it and 1200 transactions.
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1186 2014-03-11 16:12:18 <wumpus> but isn't the mempool empty at start?
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1188 2014-03-11 16:13:01 <sipa> it may make sense to try counting how many time some of the internal wallet methods are called during that call
1189 2014-03-11 16:13:11 <sipa> perhaps there is some weird exponential behaviour
1190 2014-03-11 16:13:24 <wumpus> yes this is one of the cases where a profiler is useful
1191 2014-03-11 16:13:27 <gmaxwell> I could just profile it.
1192 2014-03-11 16:13:41 <wbaw> can't you cache it?
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1194 2014-03-11 16:14:49 <wbaw> is it just the first time it's slow?
1195 2014-03-11 16:14:59 <gmaxwell> it's just the first time.
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1197 2014-03-11 16:15:18 <sipa> the reason it's only slow the first time is exactly because after the first time is is cached (presumable)
1198 2014-03-11 16:15:24 <jgarzik> easy enough to pre-cache in init
1199 2014-03-11 16:15:35 <jgarzik> startup is slow as it is
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1213 2014-03-11 16:22:51 <waxwing> just to repeat from earlier, does anyone know why a 14/15 p2sh would not work? might there be an issue with sigopcount? or is that not relevant.
1214 2014-03-11 16:23:44 <sipa> define "not work"
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1216 2014-03-11 16:25:03 <waxwing> rejected by Eligius
1217 2014-03-11 16:25:34 <waxwing> it's non standard anyway because the scriptsig is too big
1218 2014-03-11 16:25:52 <waxwing> I mentioned earlier 8/15 was ok
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1221 2014-03-11 16:27:23 <devrandom> waxwing: you can compile bitcoind yourself, turning off IsStandard and see if it's still rejected
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1225 2014-03-11 16:28:50 <waxwing> devrandom, hmm I guess that's true. Thanks for the suggestion. Was hoping it could be attacked by reasoning :)
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1228 2014-03-11 16:29:25 <sipa> i don't understand your question anymore
1229 2014-03-11 16:29:25 <sipa> you ask why it gets rejected
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1231 2014-03-11 16:29:35 <sipa> but then give the answer yourself?
1232 2014-03-11 16:30:10 <devrandom> I think waxwing is assuming that Eligius accepts all !IsStandard txs
1233 2014-03-11 16:30:36 <devrandom> but it probably fails some other check or Eligius has some weaker IsStandard the the tx falls afoul of
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1235 2014-03-11 16:32:15 <waxwing> devrandom, yes i realised today that I must be hitting some other limit; I just wanted to know what that limit was
1236 2014-03-11 16:32:26 <waxwing> so as to understand what the "hard" limits on P2SH size were
1237 2014-03-11 16:32:36 <gmaxwell> you cannot have a redeemscript over 520 bytes.
1238 2014-03-11 16:32:57 <waxwing> ok, but with compressed pubkeys it's under 520 with N=15
1239 2014-03-11 16:33:16 <waxwing> hence 8/15 worked
1240 2014-03-11 16:33:24 <gmaxwell> In any case, eligius has a bunch of its own anti-spam rules.
1241 2014-03-11 16:33:39 <waxwing> right; I guess it's somewhat off topic in that it's Luke-Jr's own code
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1243 2014-03-11 16:34:10 <waxwing> my original question was though, if someone could help me understand what the sigop count limit is
1244 2014-03-11 16:34:31 <waxwing> because it looked like that was one potential limit (although I really dont understand)
1245 2014-03-11 16:34:35 <sipa> max 20k sigops in a block
1246 2014-03-11 16:34:49 <gmaxwell> p2sh sigops are counted accurately though
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1248 2014-03-11 16:35:15 <waxwing> oh ok per block only in standard bitcoin? or per tx limit also?
1249 2014-03-11 16:35:46 <gmaxwell> Thats a block validity rule
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1252 2014-03-11 16:37:12 <gmaxwell> god knows why the limit is 520. weird number.
1253 2014-03-11 16:38:00 <waxwing> gmaxwell, petertodd has a pull request to change it for p2sh I think, he mentioned it yesterday
1254 2014-03-11 16:38:31 <sipa> waxwing: it does not, and cannot
1255 2014-03-11 16:39:56 <waxwing> sipa, i didn't get it, context please?
1256 2014-03-11 16:40:19 <sipa> script data pushes are at most 520 bytes, that's a hard rule
1257 2014-03-11 16:40:46 <sipa> petertodd's pullreq changes the maximum size of the scriptSig
1258 2014-03-11 16:40:58 <sipa> not of the redeemScript
1259 2014-03-11 16:41:02 <waxwing> oh i'm sorry, of course, i got it mixed up
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1264 2014-03-11 16:42:53 <gmaxwell> (I assume that the reason the limit is 520 because some encoding of a 4kbit rsa signature was that big... or something like that... lost to the mists of time)
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1289 2014-03-11 17:01:45 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: there's nothing broken/weird about accounts; they just don't work with B-Qt and require constant backups :P
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1291 2014-03-11 17:03:04 <sipa> they are useful for one particular purpose, but many assume they have properties they don't
1292 2014-03-11 17:03:18 <sipa> in addition, they interact badly with labels, and indeed require constant backups
1293 2014-03-11 17:03:39 <anton000> blockahin.info's dowwn?
1294 2014-03-11 17:03:40 <sipa> it's just a problem that better solved in the layer on top of bitcoin
1295 2014-03-11 17:03:55 <gmaxwell> just convering them to being tags/labels accomplishes 95% of what they're currently good for and avoids a bunch of code.
1296 2014-03-11 17:03:57 <sipa> so it can be synchronized with application laye
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1299 2014-03-11 17:06:14 <Luke-Jr> should be fairly trivial to add it back as an external layer (proxy, even)
1300 2014-03-11 17:07:44 <gmaxwell> yea and such a layer could do proper data replication so you don't have the backup issue.
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1325 2014-03-11 17:24:16 <melik> hi there everyone i apologize if this question has been asked a million times
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1328 2014-03-11 17:25:09 <melik> but 1) what is the best way to parse the blockchain? are there any good APIs we can use, or is it better to write code to manually do it
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1346 2014-03-11 17:39:48 <devrandom> I wrote a short article about hardware wallet security
1347 2014-03-11 17:40:06 <devrandom> anybody up to reviewing? https://github.com/devrandom/btc-papers/blob/master/hardware-wallet-security.md
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1349 2014-03-11 17:40:24 <devrandom> *up for
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1367 2014-03-11 17:50:40 <gmaxwell> devrandom: needs work
1368 2014-03-11 17:51:18 <gmaxwell> devrandom: I'm not currently aware of a way in ecdsa to eliminate the nonce channel securely while still allowing the signer to know what they're signing.
1369 2014-03-11 17:51:52 <gmaxwell> I'd harassed wallet makers in the past to use determinstic dsa so that with auditing the problem reduces to the initial randomness.
1370 2014-03-11 17:52:31 <gmaxwell> With schnorr signatures the signatures can be rerandomized (e.g. like a 2-of-2 threshold signature) in order to eliminate the subliminal channel.
1371 2014-03-11 17:52:51 <gmaxwell> Maybe its possible with ECDSA but the only approach I'm aware of prevents the device from knowing what its signing. :(
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1373 2014-03-11 17:53:20 <gmaxwell> (which means you can't do things like have it give you a reliable display of the destination and value, largely mooting the advantage of the hardware)
1374 2014-03-11 17:54:49 <devrandom> gmaxwell: looks like http://www.jofcis.com/publishedpapers/2011_7_4_1254_1261.pdf has a scheme to collaboratively choose a random signature k
1375 2014-03-11 17:55:01 <devrandom> my scheme doesn't work actually, since it discloses k to Warden
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1377 2014-03-11 17:55:47 <gmaxwell> right, I'd just assumed you didn't mean that. :P
1378 2014-03-11 17:55:54 <devrandom> hmm... need to look at that paper closer
1379 2014-03-11 17:55:57 <gmaxwell> since that trivialy recovers the private key.
1380 2014-03-11 17:56:21 <gmaxwell> it's irritating, this is trivial to solve with schnorr.
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1392 2014-03-11 18:02:17 <dhill> gavinandresen: would bitcoind be opposed to adding a license to their tests?
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1394 2014-03-11 18:03:20 <Luke-Jr> dhill: huh?
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1400 2014-03-11 18:04:21 <dhill> i'd like to use the same tests bitcoind does in my code
1401 2014-03-11 18:04:40 <gmaxwell> dhill: I think we intend to have them licensed the same as the rest of the code, they just lacked the headers.
1402 2014-03-11 18:04:40 <Luke-Jr> oh, MIT license not explicitly on those files
1403 2014-03-11 18:04:43 <Luke-Jr> sigh
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1405 2014-03-11 18:05:12 <gmaxwell> dhill: Can you just open an issue? I believe it's pure oversight.
1406 2014-03-11 18:05:17 <dhill> sure can
1407 2014-03-11 18:05:28 <Luke-Jr> like 30 people need to sign off on it :x
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1411 2014-03-11 18:07:26 <gmaxwell> The tests? meh. 29 names in git blame on tests/*.cpp 7 in tests/data/*.json
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1414 2014-03-11 18:07:44 <sipa> let's do it
1415 2014-03-11 18:07:47 <espringe> Does bitcoind's maxconnections affect the amount of rpcconnections ?
1416 2014-03-11 18:07:51 <sipa> espringe: no
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1418 2014-03-11 18:08:02 <espringe> i.e. if bitcoind is using the maximium connections, it still lets rpc connections?
1419 2014-03-11 18:08:08 <dhill> gmaxwell: #3848
1420 2014-03-11 18:08:09 <sipa> espringe: they're completely independent
1421 2014-03-11 18:08:10 <dhill> thanks
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1425 2014-03-11 18:08:33 <gmaxwell> (It's debatable that any request is really needed given the top level package licensing, but always better to make fewer assumptionsâ¦)
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1427 2014-03-11 18:08:49 <espringe> My bitcoind keeps rejecting rpc connections after its been running long enough. But the actual node is working fine
1428 2014-03-11 18:08:53 <espringe> The only thing I can do is reset it
1429 2014-03-11 18:09:06 <espringe> Nothing to do with memory, cpu or file descriptors
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1432 2014-03-11 18:11:06 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: gavinandresen: BlueMatt: sipa: petertodd: wumpus: grau: you are the only other people who git blame implicates for the json data. Please go ack https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3848
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1435 2014-03-11 18:11:56 <CodeShark> huh?!
1436 2014-03-11 18:12:01 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: done
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1438 2014-03-11 18:12:06 <BlueMatt> CodeShark: just go post a copy of my comment there
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1445 2014-03-11 18:15:05 <Joric> does he assume you have to put a license in every folder
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1447 2014-03-11 18:15:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: you'd think that after seperately counting the json and test/ I would have correctly read dhill's message. (I read it as asking only about the json somehow)
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1452 2014-03-11 18:16:38 <gmaxwell> Joric: the normal practice is to include it on every file. There isn't any reason to believe you actually have to do this, though because its so common (and because e.g. debian's packaging guidelines require it) there is some potenntial that someone might have a different understanding, so its better to ask than risk any surprise drama.
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1455 2014-03-11 18:17:05 <dhill> i am specifically wanting to use the tests in hash_tests.cpp right now
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1457 2014-03-11 18:18:14 <gmaxwell> dhill: everything of interest in hash_tests.cpp is petertodd
1458 2014-03-11 18:18:36 <gmaxwell> I think he's asleep or otherwise AFK at the moment.
1459 2014-03-11 18:18:50 <gmaxwell> in any case, in a couple hours it should be mostly all sorted and we'll change it.
1460 2014-03-11 18:19:00 <dhill> \o/
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1463 2014-03-11 18:19:40 <gmaxwell> dhill: please feel free to submit some pulls for more tests too. :) if you push tests in our direction it reduces the risk that any incompatiblities get introduced in the future. :)
1464 2014-03-11 18:20:03 <dhill> well do
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1468 2014-03-11 18:22:03 <dhill> how long does a ban on an ip last
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1471 2014-03-11 18:22:48 <gmaxwell> dhill: 24 hours. It's configurable.
1472 2014-03-11 18:23:22 <vegard> I created src/test/script_tests.cpp, do I need to comment on the github issue as well?
1473 2014-03-11 18:23:31 <gmaxwell> mostly it's just to prevent obviously broken peers from wasting resources... e.g. sending you invalid signatures to grind with your cpu.
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1475 2014-03-11 18:23:38 <gmaxwell> vegard: please.
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1478 2014-03-11 18:25:24 <gmaxwell> td: you too, jgarzik as well go ack https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3848 (I'll hunt wahtever straglers remain after we get most of it)
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1483 2014-03-11 18:28:54 <Emcy_> 0.9 soon?
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1548 2014-03-11 19:27:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If it's possible (and I don't see why not, personally, but you may disagree) I'd like to get #3775 and #3806 merged in time for rc3...
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1554 2014-03-11 19:30:06 <ewust> gmaxwell: re: <@gmaxwell> devrandom: I'm not currently aware of a way in ecdsa to eliminate the nonce channel securely while still allowing the signer to know what they're signing.
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1556 2014-03-11 19:30:25 <ewust> why doesn't deterministic dsa solve that, and why does it need to be randomized?
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1558 2014-03-11 19:30:38 <gmaxwell> ewust: no it doesn't solve it at all.
1559 2014-03-11 19:31:20 <gmaxwell> an observe cannot tell if your DSA was determinstic or not. (well at all is a bit strong, I think these devices should use determinstic dsa to be more auditable, but on a case by case basis it doesn't prevent the leak)
1560 2014-03-11 19:32:11 <ewust> are you saying k = HMAC(device_secret, message)?
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1562 2014-03-11 19:32:38 <ewust> or is the problem that the device can't have device_secret?
1563 2014-03-11 19:33:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Question about deterministic dsa... (And this might be an idiotic question, sorry in advance)
1564 2014-03-11 19:33:40 <gmaxwell> ewust: the device can have it nothing else can.
1565 2014-03-11 19:33:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The determinism is in the value that must be unique for signatures with the same key otherwise the key is revealed, right?
1566 2014-03-11 19:34:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why not just have a counter and sign with 1, then 2, then 3, et cetera?
1567 2014-03-11 19:34:42 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: it must be unknown to everyone else.
1568 2014-03-11 19:34:44 <ewust> michagogo|cloud: it also has to be secret (the k value)
1569 2014-03-11 19:35:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah
1570 2014-03-11 19:35:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I suspected it might be something like that :-P
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1573 2014-03-11 19:36:39 <ewust> gmaxwell: i'm not sure i understand how k = HMAC for hardware wallets doesn't solve the problem
1574 2014-03-11 19:36:49 <ewust> perhaps i am thinking of the wrong problem :)
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1578 2014-03-11 19:38:55 <gmaxwell> ewust: maybe because you are not thinking of an adversarial model? (or you are desynced and have no idea what was being discussed there)
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1580 2014-03-11 19:39:15 <gmaxwell> If the device actually does what you specified you're fine. But you cannot tell if it did or didn't.
1581 2014-03-11 19:40:15 <ewust> ah i see now, thanks
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1589 2014-03-11 19:47:28 <rodrigo31> Hi, i'm back!
1590 2014-03-11 19:47:40 <rodrigo31> How much space does bitcoin blockchain uses?
1591 2014-03-11 19:47:47 <rodrigo31> runing out of space here...
1592 2014-03-11 19:48:35 antephialtic has joined
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1594 2014-03-11 19:48:49 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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1600 2014-03-11 19:53:01 <mikeche1en> 15gb? something like that
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1605 2014-03-11 19:54:37 <rodrigo31> 15GB? What?
1606 2014-03-11 19:54:49 <rodrigo31> i Have 8 ... (used)
1607 2014-03-11 19:55:42 <mikeche1en> well you are about halfway then
1608 2014-03-11 19:56:28 <dexX7> more like 18-20
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1623 2014-03-11 20:04:08 <helo> 19G here
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1649 2014-03-11 20:18:02 <CodeShark> master branch, src/rpcmining.cpp lines 492-518: isn't pblocktemplate uninitialized if the conditional fails?
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1652 2014-03-11 20:20:19 <CodeShark> ah, I guess the idea is the condition must succeed at least the first time
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1654 2014-03-11 20:21:11 <CodeShark> seems we should be initializing pindexPrev and pblocktemplate to nullptr, though
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1657 2014-03-11 20:21:33 <paveljanik> CodeShark: yes, static var.
1658 2014-03-11 20:21:51 <CodeShark> pindexPrev is still uninitialized the first time it runs
1659 2014-03-11 20:22:18 <CodeShark> so pindexPrev != chainActiveTip() makes me a little uncomfortable :)
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1661 2014-03-11 20:22:40 <paveljanik> pindexPrev = NULL;
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1663 2014-03-11 20:22:50 <paveljanik> it is there in the conditional.
1664 2014-03-11 20:23:02 <CodeShark> only after the if
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1668 2014-03-11 20:24:19 <vegard> static variables are implicitly initialised to 0
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1674 2014-03-11 20:26:08 <CodeShark> hmm, is that part of the C++ standard?
1675 2014-03-11 20:26:25 <gmaxwell> yes. (and C standard, too)
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1677 2014-03-11 20:26:38 <jaromil> ps axf
1678 2014-03-11 20:26:49 <jaromil> whopsie sry -_-'
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1682 2014-03-11 20:30:35 <CodeShark> so then line 497 seems superfluous
1683 2014-03-11 20:31:09 <vegard> no, it's only initialised to 0 before the program starts. afterwards it retains its value (unless you change it, of course)
1684 2014-03-11 20:31:50 <CodeShark> ah, ok - I see - so in case of an exception
1685 2014-03-11 20:32:00 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: statics are like globals, initilized at start and keep their value... (the only difference is the scoping for access to the name)
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1688 2014-03-11 20:32:27 <CodeShark> yes, I understand statics - but I'm used to explicitly initializing them
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1692 2014-03-11 20:33:08 <jgarzik> technically speaking, it wastes a tiny amount of space to explicitly initialize
1693 2014-03-11 20:33:23 <CodeShark> doesn't that depend on the compiler?
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1695 2014-03-11 20:33:44 <jgarzik> well, in C anyway. C++ picture is a bit different, though treatment of sections remains the same ultimately.
1696 2014-03-11 20:33:54 <jgarzik> yeah it depends on in which section stuff gets placed
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1699 2014-03-11 20:36:32 <ThomasZ> statics in shared libraries is a bit messy, guarentees of when statics are initialized has some weird rules to it too. I tend to avoid them ;)
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1705 2014-03-11 20:42:05 <venzen> i'm seeing int64_t and uint256 datatypes in the code (looking at main.cpp) - is there any convention or rule-of-thumb as to which types get used?
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1713 2014-03-11 20:46:11 <gmaxwell> venzen: do you think uint256 is used anywhere where a int64 could have been used?
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1719 2014-03-11 20:50:40 <venzen> gmaxwell: well, you answer me with a question... and, true, i don't see such cases.
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1721 2014-03-11 20:51:11 <CodeShark> one is 64 bits, the other is 256 bits
1722 2014-03-11 20:51:22 <CodeShark> you cannot store 256 bit values in a 64 bit variable
1723 2014-03-11 20:51:24 <CodeShark> you need four of them
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1725 2014-03-11 20:52:02 <dexX7> is there a reason to have both varint and pushdata?
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1727 2014-03-11 20:52:15 <CodeShark> so the rule of thumb is: if you only need 64 bits, go with a uint64_t or int64_tâ¦if you need 256 bits, go with a uint256 :)
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1730 2014-03-11 20:52:42 <venzen> CodeShark: sure, and the uint256 seems to mostly be used for hashes
1731 2014-03-11 20:52:48 <CodeShark> indeed
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1735 2014-03-11 20:54:49 <venzen> CodeShark: i'm doing my best to dead and comprehend... are transaction amounts, for example, being typed as int64_t and then converted to decimal at the last moment?
1736 2014-03-11 20:54:55 <venzen> *read
1737 2014-03-11 20:55:15 <CodeShark> transaction amounts should NEVER be treated as decimal unless we have a decimal datatype
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1739 2014-03-11 20:55:43 <CodeShark> the floating point stuff is only for the RPC
1740 2014-03-11 20:55:50 <venzen> CodeShark: but we don't jave decimals that i can see
1741 2014-03-11 20:55:50 <CodeShark> and it's a horrible idea there, too
1742 2014-03-11 20:55:57 <venzen> sure
1743 2014-03-11 20:56:08 <CodeShark> using floating point numbers is asking for trouble
1744 2014-03-11 20:56:21 <CodeShark> at least if they are base 2
1745 2014-03-11 20:56:33 <CodeShark> which C++ floats and doubles are
1746 2014-03-11 20:57:14 <venzen> ah, i see what the "double" i've been seeing means
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1751 2014-03-11 20:58:35 <CodeShark> given that many other languages do not come with a native decimal type, we should always be using quoted integers in the JSON
1752 2014-03-11 20:58:56 <CodeShark> perhaps we could also provide the decimal expression for human consumption
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1755 2014-03-11 20:59:20 <CodeShark> but discourage its use unless you have a JSON parser that handles it correctly
1756 2014-03-11 20:59:38 <CodeShark> discourage its programmatic use, that is
1757 2014-03-11 21:00:00 <CodeShark> the only safe way to send these values over JSON is as quoted integers
1758 2014-03-11 21:00:55 <venzen> yes, as a reference quoted decimals help, but that's just as bad having to convert strings to floats... so i get the quoted integer logic
1759 2014-03-11 21:01:30 <venzen> thanks for explaining that
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1768 2014-03-11 21:06:45 <viajero> !seen sturles
1769 2014-03-11 21:06:46 <gribble> sturles was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 1 day, 4 hours, 9 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <sturles> The automation itself is probably done somewhere else.
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1915 2014-03-11 22:10:03 <zone117x> hey guys. anyone know if its possible to do batch rpc requests to daemon?
1916 2014-03-11 22:10:24 <sipa> yes
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1918 2014-03-11 22:10:40 <zone117x> for example I have 50 transcations IDs. instead of doing a gettransaction for each one, can I put all json method object in an array then get an array response back from daemon?
1919 2014-03-11 22:11:15 <zone117x> any tips on how to do that? links to documentation or anything? couldnt find anything on it
1920 2014-03-11 22:11:33 cagedwisdom has joined
1921 2014-03-11 22:11:42 <sipa> zone117x: RTFM
1922 2014-03-11 22:11:45 <sipa> zone117x: http://www.jsonrpc.org/specification#batch
1923 2014-03-11 22:12:24 <zone117x> thanks but I've heard that bitcoin daemon doesnt fully support the protocol properly
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1925 2014-03-11 22:12:58 <gmaxwell> I've heard users often ask questions without testing or research.
1926 2014-03-11 22:12:58 <sipa> it does support batch requests
1927 2014-03-11 22:13:05 <gmaxwell> :P
1928 2014-03-11 22:14:06 <zone117x> okay thanks for the help. you know it saves a lot of developer headache to be able to ask a simple question rather than setting up testing
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1930 2014-03-11 22:15:18 <zone117x> thats partially why these irc channels exist. no need to be rude :p
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1933 2014-03-11 22:16:23 <gmaxwell> Actually the channel exists to coordinate the actual development, it's not a support channelâ though no harm in some here and there. Sorry for offending you, my snark was intended to be mild and only because sipa answered you and you didn't seem to believe him.
1934 2014-03-11 22:18:16 <zone117x> its worries. is there a bitcoin-related development support channel?
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1938 2014-03-11 22:20:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, how come there isn't a channel specifically for help/support? Usually it happens in #bitcoin or occasionally here, but sometimes things get missed or drowned out by conversation
1939 2014-03-11 22:20:57 <gmaxwell> Generally I direct support that isn't of the "I have good reason to believe I've found a bug" into #bitcoin (and I also idle there to answer those queries). This channel alsoâ in theory carries traffic about the bitcoin protocol and operational state of the network which large bitcoin companies should be following in some capacity.
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1941 2014-03-11 22:21:14 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: because moving it into another one makes #bitcoin more of a cesspool.
1942 2014-03-11 22:21:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: ah, interesting
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1944 2014-03-11 22:22:59 <zone117x> I dont mean a channel for "hur der how do I compile bitcoin daemon on win95" I mean for questions that popup when developing a bitcoin related project
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1946 2014-03-11 22:27:49 <zone117x> the bitcoin wiki isn't exactly very featured and often has misleading outdated information which has set me back while developing a project. so short of making the wiki a lot better it would be nice to have a irc channel for bitcoin-related project development support. where questions like "does the daemon support full json rpc specs such as batch calls?"
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1949 2014-03-11 22:29:31 <arubi> zone117x, I'm not much of a coder, but I've seen interesting comments in bitcoin's code itself that might help
1950 2014-03-11 22:29:44 <gmaxwell> zone117x: you could have just asked that in #bitcoin (or here, and gotten your yes, then went on to express disbelief, then recieved my snark, then been offended, and here we are)
1951 2014-03-11 22:29:46 <arubi> not specifically for what you're asking, but I've seen comments
1952 2014-03-11 22:30:17 <zone117x> for developers just now taking an interest in developing bitcoin related projects - it takes a lot of effort hunting through endless bitcointalk forum threads, out-dated wikis, finding people around here who have been around long enough to already have the answers and are willing to help
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1955 2014-03-11 22:31:13 <CodeShark> signal-to-noise ratio in #bitcoin-dev >> signal-to-noise ratio in #bitcoin >>>>>>> signal-to-noise ratio in bitcointalk
1956 2014-03-11 22:31:16 <zone117x> add to the list "sifting through cpp code that a non-C devleper hardly understand)
1957 2014-03-11 22:31:49 <CodeShark> in other words, it practically takes more time and effort to weed out the gems of bitcointalk than to just rediscover whatever they are by yourself :)
1958 2014-03-11 22:32:05 <waxwing> how about #bitcoin-dev and #bitcoin-coredev so developers can share info about bitcoin-related issues that are not directly related to the core client development process?
1959 2014-03-11 22:32:21 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1960 2014-03-11 22:32:45 <arubi> ==> #cryptodev
1961 2014-03-11 22:33:12 <TD> zone117x: there are people working on a new developer center section of the webstie
1962 2014-03-11 22:33:16 <TD> so hopefully docs will get better soon
1963 2014-03-11 22:33:17 <gmaxwell> zone117x: I don't have any clue who arubi is, but it's not the most awful advice: Does Bitcoin support Json batching?
1964 2014-03-11 22:33:17 <zone117x> and all that researching and frustration and dealing with the smart people with the answers but not willing to help (not you guys, you just helped me). is making developers run away screaming or wasting development time on bs-research time
1965 2014-03-11 22:33:20 <gmaxwell> [gmaxwell@helmholtz src]$ grep -i 'batch' rpc*cpp
1966 2014-03-11 22:33:22 <gmaxwell> rpcserver.cpp:static string JSONRPCExecBatch(const Array& vReq)
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1970 2014-03-11 22:34:08 <arubi> gmaxwell, yep, that's what I would be looking for
1971 2014-03-11 22:34:48 <gmaxwell> zone117x: well there is also a lot of people who _clearly do not know how to /program/_ who show up asking poorly framed questions that indicate serious misunderstanding, while concurrently saying they are running or planning to run some service to hold thousands of other people's bitcoins. It may be arguable that the best thing to do in those cases is not to help them, unless you have the free time to do their job for them. :( (not ...
1972 2014-03-11 22:34:49 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1973 2014-03-11 22:34:54 <gmaxwell> ... implicating anyone here right nowâ¦)
1974 2014-03-11 22:35:00 verwilst has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1975 2014-03-11 22:35:21 <TD> at some point we'll also get commercial developer support companies, i'm sure
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1977 2014-03-11 22:36:23 <gmaxwell> and even ignoring that reservation, the number of people using Bitcoin has been growing enormously, and people with actual expirence do eventually get tired of handling the 101 questions. Dispatching people off to secondary channels for the not quite greybeards to help is one of the ways to help build a real technical community... so the people who've been around and survived since 2010 aren't flooded with questions from 10,000 people.
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1981 2014-03-11 22:38:05 <zone117x> gmaxwell I agree with what your saying. but there are plenty of devs with the ability to make some cool btc related project that ultimately help with its adoption - who arent making gtmox exchanges where they will lose every's btc due to lack of security exprience
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1985 2014-03-11 22:39:24 <gmaxwell> sure sure, sorry I wasn't trying to suggest that everyone was, just that there is a fair amount of it and over the years its created some callouses. Not an excuse, but just a point for improved mutual understanding.
1986 2014-03-11 22:40:09 <zone117x> the attitude of the devlopment community should certainly not be "if you don't know C and arent a good enough to develop a quality btc exchange or dont have a bunch of obscure knowledge that isn't easily found, then GTFO"
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1990 2014-03-11 22:41:33 <zone117x> not saying anyone here right now has the attitude and I appreciate the help I've just recieved.
1991 2014-03-11 22:42:13 <zone117x> but from the stuff I'm made (a stratum server in node.js) I've already had people coming to me asking how the hell I managed to make that with the state of the documentation out there
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1993 2014-03-11 22:43:50 <zone117x> and if it werent for some intelligent people kind enough to be hounded by tons of questions that sound noobish to the old timers around here - then I wouldnt have been able to make it
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1995 2014-03-11 22:45:38 <zone117x> and I bet there are way more people like who me had a cool idea for a btc project that have given up after wasting so much effort on poor documentation and help from the community
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2003 2014-03-11 22:46:41 <zone117x> and thankyou to TheSeven who was one of those kind people :p
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2008 2014-03-11 22:49:12 <gmaxwell> well don't blame anyone here for stratum, that was a protocol just dropped on the worked from a single mining pool without discussion and without ever being adequately documented. :(
2009 2014-03-11 22:49:53 <zone117x> yeah I understand about the stratum protocol.. but other things invovled for that project, such as generation transcation building - fuck that was a nightmare
2010 2014-03-11 22:50:07 <zone117x> for someone with my development experience at least
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2012 2014-03-11 22:51:49 <super3> is there any bitcoin projects with good documentation
2013 2014-03-11 22:51:56 <zone117x> first started off with the limited info about it in the wiki - which turned out to be outdated and incorrect. then had to discover there was a BIP addressing it, which is also pretty vague and has a technical problem in it
2014 2014-03-11 22:52:21 <super3> i've tried by best to clean up the /docs in qt but i've only made a small dent
2015 2014-03-11 22:52:34 <TD> why are you building coinbase transactions yourself, though?
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2018 2014-03-11 22:52:39 <zone117x> finally thinking I've developed it completely to the spec in the scattered documenation just to see it not working. then having to reverse engineer how some other software does it and getting help from people
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2022 2014-03-11 22:53:19 <zone117x> you need to generate a coinbase transcation yourself for a stratum server
2023 2014-03-11 22:54:06 <TD> in general formatting your own blocks is a bad idea. miners should be mining against a plain vanilla bitcoin core
2024 2014-03-11 22:55:20 <gmaxwell> TD: modern mining must generate its own coinbase transaction, as things are constructed now. (not only does GBT not give you one, but you need to do extranonce generation in any case or you will rapidly overload bitcoind)
2025 2014-03-11 22:56:04 <gmaxwell> Stratum works by giving the miner a template coinbase transaction that they're allowed to increment an extranonce in, along with the left set of fragments of the hashtree so they can recompute the work.
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2027 2014-03-11 22:56:45 <zone117x> anyway... one of the goals of my project is taking my list of "shit that was way harder to figure out than it should" and fixing/adding the right documentation to the wiki or BIPs or whatever
2028 2014-03-11 22:56:51 <TD> that's good
2029 2014-03-11 22:56:56 <gmaxwell> as single 4u devices can now scan 2^32 nonces in 2.1ms.
2030 2014-03-11 22:57:06 <gmaxwell> zone117x: hurrah!
2031 2014-03-11 22:57:12 <piggydev> hey, can you guys have a look at this code pls? http://pastebin.com/7CvU52Nx
2032 2014-03-11 22:57:17 <piggydev> see if it works
2033 2014-03-11 22:57:22 <zone117x> even paid the bitcoin wiki fee for it :p
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2036 2014-03-11 23:02:21 <gogo_> anyone can help me? how can I create the data to calculate the target has on?
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2049 2014-03-11 23:09:11 <TheSeven> gmaxwell: I think technical questions about the internals of bitcoin shouldn't be referred to #bitcoin... they absolutely get lost in the noise there
2050 2014-03-11 23:09:35 <TheSeven> #bitcoin-tech seems like a better idea, to at least keep that separate from the usual smalltalk in #bitcoin
2051 2014-03-11 23:10:11 <TheSeven> I think people would much rather move to that than to #bitcoin... if you tell them to do the latter, they'll continue to ask here regardless
2052 2014-03-11 23:10:40 <TheSeven> sadly #bitcoin-tech doesn't have many users
2053 2014-03-11 23:11:00 <gmaxwell> TheSeven: I will actively mute people in #bitcoin if they're getting the way of a tech support discussion.
2054 2014-03-11 23:11:22 <TheSeven> ...and what exactly is the purpose of #bitcoin-wizards? would that be an adequate place to ask questions that are not directly related to the development of bitcoin, but to bitcoin's internals somehow? or is that channel more about altcoins? (it seems a bit like that)
2055 2014-03-11 23:11:46 aschildbach has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2056 2014-03-11 23:12:13 <jcorgan> agree that #bitcoin should be perfectly fine to have a technical discussion about bitcoin
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2058 2014-03-11 23:12:38 <TheSeven> well, tech support != tech support. people asking how to install bitcoin-qt is something else than people writing software that talks to bitcoind
2059 2014-03-11 23:12:56 <gmaxwell> TheSeven: no, it's about cryptographic musing and far future ideas, and some things related to bitcoin but not bitcoin itself. Basically it exists to divert the offtopic geek chatter here. It's not an altcoin channel, though to the extent that alts are about interesting technology they do get discussed there some.
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2061 2014-03-11 23:13:22 <gmaxwell> TheSeven: no one shows up asking how to install it, if they can't figure that out they also can't make it onto IRC
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2064 2014-03-11 23:14:19 <gmaxwell> The questions we get include things like researching weird and stuck transactions, sorting out crashes from flakly hardware vs bugs, or telling people how to use some rpc. That all fits in find with technical user questions too like if the rpc support batching or what do the sighash flags do.
2065 2014-03-11 23:14:42 <gmaxwell> seriously, try it sometime it does work. In part, perhaps because I watch the channel and will prod people to respond even if I don't.
2066 2014-03-11 23:14:45 <TheSeven> my personal impression if #bitcoin is "LOTS of noise, mostly speculations and smalltalk about largely unrelated things by not very informed people". I, personally, wouldn't even attempt to watch that channel for in-depth tech questions, so I wouldn't expect anyone to read my questions if I would ask them there.
2067 2014-03-11 23:15:54 <gmaxwell> it is, at times, but questions really do get answered there. Part of it not all being crap is for the other usage to go away.
2068 2014-03-11 23:16:05 <gmaxwell> And on that subject, please. Stop discussing this here.
2069 2014-03-11 23:16:39 <gmaxwell> I have complaints now from multiple bitcoin vendors and multiple alt implementors that the traffic levels and SNR in here are bad enough that its not useful for them to track the development or operational status of the network.
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2089 2014-03-11 23:30:55 <vrs> I'm playing around with the blockchain and gox leak and loading a dump into postgres
2090 2014-03-11 23:30:58 <vrs> getting this:
2091 2014-03-11 23:31:01 <vrs> ERROR: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "t_transaction_f_hash_key"
2092 2014-03-11 23:31:04 <vrs> DETAIL: Key (f_hash)=(d5d27987d2a3dfc724e359870c6644b40e497bdc0589a033220fe15429d88599) already exists.
2093 2014-03-11 23:31:07 <vrs> what's the deal with that tx?
2094 2014-03-11 23:32:16 <gmaxwell> vrs: it's a duplicate transaction, of course.
2095 2014-03-11 23:32:22 <gmaxwell> one of two, iirc.
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2097 2014-03-11 23:33:37 <gmaxwell> vrs: main.cpp:1733 (in master)
2098 2014-03-11 23:33:44 <flammit> blocks 91842 / 91880
2099 2014-03-11 23:33:44 <gmaxwell> see also BIP30
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2101 2014-03-11 23:35:17 <vrs> I see
2102 2014-03-11 23:35:32 <vrs> I suppose I can prune those two from my data without messing up much?
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2106 2014-03-11 23:39:18 <gmaxwell> vrs: I mean, they get spent eventually.
2107 2014-03-11 23:39:37 <vrs> I thought at least the first one each is unspendable?
2108 2014-03-11 23:40:04 <phantomcircuit> vrs, the first of each is not spendable
2109 2014-03-11 23:40:18 <vrs> yes
2110 2014-03-11 23:40:22 <phantomcircuit> i just blacklisted the block hash/txid pair
2111 2014-03-11 23:40:49 <phantomcircuit> you can also do it correctly and set the unique index on blockhash/txid
2112 2014-03-11 23:40:56 <phantomcircuit> but that's more effort than it's worth usually
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2114 2014-03-11 23:43:13 <diki> blacklisted? where?
2115 2014-03-11 23:43:27 <raid5> gmaxwell: moving the conversation here. rc2 is just crashing on launch (OS X 10.9.2)
2116 2014-03-11 23:43:52 <vrs> diki: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1745
2117 2014-03-11 23:44:03 <vrs> if I understand correctly
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2119 2014-03-11 23:44:22 <gmaxwell> raid5: interesting! can you look in the debug log?
2120 2014-03-11 23:45:00 <phantomcircuit> diki, if you're trying to load the blockchain into a sql db and use a unique constraint for transaction hashes then you will find that there are 2 pairs of valid transactions with identical hashes
2121 2014-03-11 23:45:09 <phantomcircuit> diki, BIP30 explains why
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2123 2014-03-11 23:45:20 <phantomcircuit> it's safe to just ignore the first transaction in both pairs
2124 2014-03-11 23:45:29 <phantomcircuit> since neither has been spent and neither can be spent
2125 2014-03-11 23:45:41 <phantomcircuit> (short of a massive ridiculous reorganization that reversed the second one)
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2128 2014-03-11 23:45:59 <raid5> gmaxwell: yea, I'm looking at it right now. Thread 0 crashed (EXC_BAD_ACCESS). A lot of references to QFont* stuff and CoreText
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2131 2014-03-11 23:46:32 <gmaxwell> wumpus: gavinandresen: ^ I am useless on GUI + OSX stuff.
2132 2014-03-11 23:46:36 <melvster> re: gbt is there any reason that *both* nbits and target are returned from getblocktemplate? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getblocktemplate
2133 2014-03-11 23:46:46 <sipa> melvster: yes
2134 2014-03-11 23:46:55 <sipa> melvster: because the target is lower
2135 2014-03-11 23:47:00 <sipa> in case of pools
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2137 2014-03-11 23:47:07 <melvster> sipa: oh thanks, good point!
2138 2014-03-11 23:47:43 <phantomcircuit> sipa, because like everybody does the calculation wrong
2139 2014-03-11 23:47:49 <phantomcircuit> so it returns both
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2141 2014-03-11 23:47:53 <sipa> no
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2143 2014-03-11 23:48:43 <melvster> it's for shares, right?
2144 2014-03-11 23:48:51 <phantomcircuit> sipa, you cant actually point any of the mining software directly at bitcoind's rpc for getblocktemplate
2145 2014-03-11 23:49:09 <raid5> gmaxwell: okay, thanks for the assistance. hopefully one of those other guys chimes in :)
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2147 2014-03-11 23:50:01 <sipa> phantomcircuit: really?
2148 2014-03-11 23:50:13 <phantomcircuit> sipa, not the last time i tried it
2149 2014-03-11 23:50:22 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: BFGMiner
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2153 2014-03-11 23:51:05 <phantomcircuit> huh guess i should try that again
2154 2014-03-11 23:51:38 <devrandom> ewust: deterministic dsa would solve it, but k in that scheme is a function of the private key
2155 2014-03-11 23:51:52 <devrandom> so there's no way for the Warden to verify it's the value that it should be
2156 2014-03-11 23:52:02 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: note it will be less efficient due to lack of longpolling
2157 2014-03-11 23:52:11 <Luke-Jr> unless you merge that..
2158 2014-03-11 23:52:16 <gmaxwell> raid5: can you open an issue in github, http://github.org/bitcoin/bitcoin if no one gets back in a couple minutes?
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2160 2014-03-11 23:53:08 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, i'd swear the last time i tried getblocktemplate in bitcoind didn't return a required field
2161 2014-03-11 23:53:15 <phantomcircuit> iirc it was the coinbase tx information
2162 2014-03-11 23:53:15 <raid5> gmaxwell: yep, will do. I'll make sure there isn't on already in there :)
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2165 2014-03-11 23:53:26 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it's not required
2166 2014-03-11 23:53:42 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, how doesn't bfgminer build the coinbase?
2167 2014-03-11 23:53:44 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: though if it's missing, you need to provide it yourself; which is covered in README
2168 2014-03-11 23:53:47 copumpkin has joined
2169 2014-03-11 23:53:56 <phantomcircuit> ah i see
2170 2014-03-11 23:53:58 <phantomcircuit> psh readmes
2171 2014-03-11 23:54:02 <phantomcircuit> who reads those?
2172 2014-03-11 23:54:14 <Luke-Jr> serious miners 8)
2173 2014-03-11 23:54:28 <phantomcircuit> lol
2174 2014-03-11 23:54:28 <melvster> been reading them the last day
2175 2014-03-11 23:54:37 <melvster> and writing a test miner in node
2176 2014-03-11 23:54:47 <melvster> bfgminer is awesome, great work Luke-Jr
2177 2014-03-11 23:54:50 <melvster> re: getblocktemplate MUST return a JSON Object containing the following keys:
2178 2014-03-11 23:54:53 <melvster> BIP 22
2179 2014-03-11 23:55:02 <melvster> it doesnt say which fields are optional
2180 2014-03-11 23:55:11 <melvster> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0022.mediawiki
2181 2014-03-11 23:55:13 <phantomcircuit> im pretty sure bitcoind doesn't follow those rules
2182 2014-03-11 23:55:52 <phantomcircuit> yeah bitcoind doesn't return coinbasetxn
2183 2014-03-11 23:56:11 <phantomcircuit> it's not hard to build your own though so who cares
2184 2014-03-11 23:56:15 <Luke-Jr> wtf, who screwed up BIP 22 converting to github?
2185 2014-03-11 23:56:22 <Luke-Jr> or is it github just screwing up mediawiki format?
2186 2014-03-11 23:56:31 <phantomcircuit> probably both
2187 2014-03-11 23:56:35 <melvster> lol
2188 2014-03-11 23:56:58 <Luke-Jr> github's bug
2189 2014-03-11 23:57:05 <Luke-Jr> view source shows it all there
2190 2014-03-11 23:57:17 <melvster> ok thanks
2191 2014-03-11 23:57:17 <Luke-Jr> why is the wiki copy deleted? -.-
2192 2014-03-11 23:57:31 <phantomcircuit> oh right
2193 2014-03-11 23:57:44 <phantomcircuit> coinbasevalue OR coinbasetxn
2194 2014-03-11 23:58:36 <Luke-Jr> there, read at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0022
2195 2014-03-11 23:58:36 agricocb has joined
2196 2014-03-11 23:58:38 <Luke-Jr> github sucks
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