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 152 2014-03-15 00:13:36 <roybadami> My apologies for enitrely off topic question, this is the only place that comes to mind where someone will probably know the answer
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 172 2014-03-15 00:15:50 <roybadami> Famous unsolved problem about complexity classed (kinda like P vs NP) but relating to quantum computability.... Someone famous made a bet of some huge amount of money that this would never be proved in one direction.... His wife said, "I don't believe you will lose that bet, but please don't make any more bets like that"
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 179 2014-03-15 00:16:22 <roybadami> Could someone remind me?
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 193 2014-03-15 00:20:35 <roybadami> It's something to do with teh quivalence (or not) of a complexity class defined in terms of a turing-equivalent machine and another complexity class defined in terms of a universal quantum computer
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 232 2014-03-15 00:32:53 <wallet42> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3870 : "sipa: I think this discussion is going in circles." hillarious!!
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 258 2014-03-15 00:39:44 <Imbue> wallet42: LOL
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 261 2014-03-15 00:41:22 <Imbue> i am not sure about 'all of the possible units are deprecated'
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 263 2014-03-15 00:41:45 <Imbue> why should my ability to use micro-pi-bitcoins be removed
 264 2014-03-15 00:41:54 <Imbue> other units*
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 288 2014-03-15 00:51:07 <roybadami> muBTC = milli-micro-bitcoins :-)
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 309 2014-03-15 01:03:16 <theorbtwo> roybadami: They should have known better then to make a bet that can only be lost, but not one.
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 339 2014-03-15 01:26:30 <CheckDavid> dims: hey
 340 2014-03-15 01:26:54 <CheckDavid> Is trying your code @ https://gist.githubusercontent.com/shirriff/8e6b5650361bbe78a055/raw/158f4263ad0f93436694fb84904b002400c640d7/keyUtils.py
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 342 2014-03-15 01:27:09 <CheckDavid> But import ecdsa is not working
 343 2014-03-15 01:27:21 <CheckDavid> Maybe I have to download ?
 344 2014-03-15 01:28:04 <CheckDavid> Not that link sorry
 345 2014-03-15 01:28:33 <CheckDavid> This one: https://gist.github.com/dims/5000f40c539b6eac914f
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 347 2014-03-15 01:29:29 <beachandbytes> use pip and install ecdsa
 348 2014-03-15 01:30:01 <sipa> not here, please
 349 2014-03-15 01:30:16 <beachandbytes> ?
 350 2014-03-15 01:30:20 <sipa> this channel is about development of bitcoin protocol and clients
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 354 2014-03-15 01:31:18 <CheckDavid> Don't be mean. I am learning
 355 2014-03-15 01:31:40 <sipa> i'm not mean at all, and i wish you all luck; but this is offtopic here
 356 2014-03-15 01:31:44 <beachandbytes> Not like the channel is overflowing with developer chat
 357 2014-03-15 01:31:48 <CheckDavid> Thanks beachandbytes
 358 2014-03-15 01:32:07 <beachandbytes> not really sure how keys are offtopic in bitcoin-dev
 359 2014-03-15 01:33:23 <sipa> learning how to import python packages is
 360 2014-03-15 01:33:24 <CheckDavid> Its because I'm so noon he can't see the relation lol
 361 2014-03-15 01:33:35 <CheckDavid> *noob
 362 2014-03-15 01:34:14 <CheckDavid> I will Google next time
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 364 2014-03-15 01:38:39 <beachandbytes> true sipa
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 371 2014-03-15 01:42:24 <roybadami> You should never use IRC at noon
 372 2014-03-15 01:42:38 <CheckDavid> Why?
 373 2014-03-15 01:42:43 <roybadami> (sorry, I'm in a silly mood LOL)
 374 2014-03-15 01:43:25 <CheckDavid> It's  1:42 in your clock roybadami
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 385 2014-03-15 01:49:53 <warren> cfields: submit a pull request to add your GPG key?
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 408 2014-03-15 02:16:45 <fanquake> ;;blocks
 409 2014-03-15 02:16:46 <gribble> 290607
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 419 2014-03-15 02:26:41 <warren> petertodd: Google tells me that you made another revolution around Sol roughly around today.
 420 2014-03-15 02:27:35 <sipa> warren: http://abstrusegoose.com/304
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 423 2014-03-15 02:29:02 <warren> sipa: indeed
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 450 2014-03-15 02:54:41 <dgenr8> Hi all
 451 2014-03-15 02:54:48 <dgenr8> I am testing PR #3354
 452 2014-03-15 02:55:00 <dgenr8> Having trouble generating double spends easily
 453 2014-03-15 02:55:18 paracyst has joined
 454 2014-03-15 02:55:49 <dgenr8> Using regtest with a netowrk node and two end nodes
 455 2014-03-15 02:56:30 basva_ has joined
 456 2014-03-15 02:56:47 <dgenr8> using bitcoin-qt.  Gavin gave me a hint that restarting node clears mempool.
 457 2014-03-15 02:57:25 <dgenr8> Necessary because sending node immediately detects the double spend I try to generate
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 460 2014-03-15 02:58:53 <dgenr8> BUT I can see in debug.log that wallet is loading the transactions from disk at startup.  So I don't know what he meant really.
 461 2014-03-15 03:00:12 <sipa> you'll need the raw transaction api toncreate double spends
 462 2014-03-15 03:00:24 <sipa> the normal wallet code won't let you
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 465 2014-03-15 03:03:01 <dgenr8> I am using sendrawtransaction but I just copied the hex from txn 1 ... do I need to change it somehow to get past some kind of simple dupe check?
 466 2014-03-15 03:06:05 Diapolis has joined
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 468 2014-03-15 03:09:41 <dgenr8> Now I'm thinking clone the wallet before sending tx 1, then launch clone offline and use coin control to send tx 2 from same prevout, then connect.  I'll try that
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 505 2014-03-15 03:58:00 <firelegend> Where in the source code of Bitcoin do I find the network protocol part?
 506 2014-03-15 04:01:03 <sipa> protocol.h/cpp, net.h/cpp, main.h/cpp
 507 2014-03-15 04:01:45 <sipa> and the serialization of some datastructures in core.h
 508 2014-03-15 04:04:39 <firelegend> thanks
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 566 2014-03-15 05:31:03 <justanotheruser> Is there any way to force -reindex to think it's succeeeded?
 567 2014-03-15 05:31:33 <jcorgan> there seems to be some stray files in the repo for both master and 0.9.0 branches, or it could be intentional, but it looks like the source tree for bitcoinrpc got overlayed on top and checked in to the bitcoin repo
 568 2014-03-15 05:32:14 <jcorgan> README, setup.py, bitcoinrpc/ and jsonrpc/
 569 2014-03-15 05:33:21 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
 570 2014-03-15 05:33:28 <jcorgan> seems to date from Feb 26: Squashed 'qa/rpc-tests/python-bitcoinrpc/' content from commit e484743
 571 2014-03-15 05:33:36 __andare1 is now known as __andares
 572 2014-03-15 05:33:42 <jcorgan> which is commit 260cf5c0a
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 584 2014-03-15 05:56:30 <sipa> justanotheruser: that's impossible
 585 2014-03-15 05:56:39 <sipa> justanotheruser: reindex means rebuilding the index
 586 2014-03-15 05:56:49 <sipa> justanotheruser: if it's not done, you don't have a fully indexed chain
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 591 2014-03-15 06:05:04 <mrkent> How does one list all bitcoind accounts for which transactions/moves have occured
 592 2014-03-15 06:05:20 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 593 2014-03-15 06:06:39 <justanotheruser> mrkent: bitcoind listaccounts
 594 2014-03-15 06:06:52 <justanotheruser> then filter the json by accounts with non-zero values
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 596 2014-03-15 06:07:17 <justanotheruser> Accounts are only for receiving though, you don't send from an account
 597 2014-03-15 06:08:01 <mrkent> justanotheruser, hum.. anyway to count those too?
 598 2014-03-15 06:08:12 <venzen> mrkent: also try bitcoind listtransactions
 599 2014-03-15 06:08:21 <mrkent> Like users who received internal transfers and withdrew
 600 2014-03-15 06:08:44 <justanotheruser> mrkent: Internal transfers? Like offchain?
 601 2014-03-15 06:09:04 <mrkent> justanotheruser, yes, via move command
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 605 2014-03-15 06:12:21 <venzen> mrkent: you seem to be viewing the wallet as a multi-account journal, but "account" in the context of the wallet is simply a label and nothing more - for multiple users you should think along the lines of multiple wallets or some other custom app - that is the general advice i see repeated here a lot
 606 2014-03-15 06:13:48 <justanotheruser> mrkent: I'm not sure if we are on the same page. You can send from an account, but it isn't those outputs necessarily. You can move, but it isn't on-chain.
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 608 2014-03-15 06:16:49 <mrkent> justanotheruser, we are on same page
 609 2014-03-15 06:17:52 <justanotheruser> mrkent: Are you making a web wallet?
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 612 2014-03-15 06:20:25 <mrkent> justanotheruser, not exactly but idea is same
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 620 2014-03-15 06:21:29 <justanotheruser> mrkent: well you can check received with accounts, check sent with accounts and manage internal without bitcoind
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 631 2014-03-15 06:26:16 <cystic850___> hello
 632 2014-03-15 06:26:31 Zifre_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 633 2014-03-15 06:26:45 <cystic850___> can anyone give me a quick hand?
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 636 2014-03-15 06:28:35 <cystic850___> I'm trying to setup a local exchange for testing purposes based on this script at https://github.com/zelles/BitcoinExchange I have configured everything, and rpc logins, but it still says "Registrations are disabled."
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 642 2014-03-15 06:34:20 <mrkent> justanotheruser, thanks that works
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 649 2014-03-15 06:45:39 <cystic850___>    if($coo_coo=="tootoo") { // nvm designed to make me coo_coo
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 662 2014-03-15 07:06:51 <mrkent> cystic850___, seems like readme says The trading section is not fully completed at this time
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 666 2014-03-15 07:07:52 <cystic850___> Yea, not sure what they mean by that.. I just installed to play with it tho.. got it running on test nets
 667 2014-03-15 07:08:20 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 668 2014-03-15 07:08:56 <cystic850___> once i made a variable called $coo_coo and defined it as tootoo registrations started to work.
 669 2014-03-15 07:09:48 <cystic850___> Sent 10 test LTC to my acct and it sees it waiting for confirmations.. anyone have some testnet btc I can test trade with?
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 673 2014-03-15 07:12:17 <cystic850___> need testnet btc: mtuYjiaX6EzwWb1mYVm75fZXKEccGmRwXi
 674 2014-03-15 07:13:24 <ne0futur> eh I love this way tomake sure users have to understand the code
 675 2014-03-15 07:13:39 <ne0futur> i ve seen that kind of detail in many open source software
 676 2014-03-15 07:13:52 <ne0futur> wont work until you understand a very basic coding detail
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 678 2014-03-15 07:14:32 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead]
 679 2014-03-15 07:17:13 <he1kki> Do I need to re-index blockchain when upgrading from bitcoind0.9rc1 -> rc2
 680 2014-03-15 07:17:29 <fanquake> No
 681 2014-03-15 07:18:03 <he1kki> grhm, meant rc2 -> rc3 but I suppose it doesn't make a difference
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 697 2014-03-15 07:34:09 <cystic850___> I wish these coins would confirm i'm ready to see how broken this exchange really is
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 699 2014-03-15 07:34:41 <cystic850___> good to know the xchange won't let you spend the coins til they confirm
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 707 2014-03-15 07:43:03 <Arbynog> any tips on getting this confirmed/fixed?
 708 2014-03-15 07:43:05 <Arbynog> Status: 0/unconfirmed  Date: 3/13/2014 15:20 PST
 709 2014-03-15 07:43:05 <Arbynog> Transaction fee: -0.0001 BTC  Net amount: -0.38489441 BTC
 710 2014-03-15 07:43:05 <Arbynog> Transaction ID: e3f0dfdbf59158e9cd9c5b8c2ec0cbdbb34030b6058394477e7e2c1bc28e95a8
 711 2014-03-15 07:43:11 <Arbynog> been about 36 hours
 712 2014-03-15 07:43:58 <he1kki> I built 0.9rc3 with configuration options --enable-wallet=false --with-incompatible-bd and now make seems to fail because of wallet related errors.
 713 2014-03-15 07:44:37 <he1kki> Is there something wrong with those parameters or should I start writing issue ticket?
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 715 2014-03-15 07:45:14 <Luke-Jr> ………..
 716 2014-03-15 07:45:51 <Luke-Jr> do we seriously need to rename --with-incompatible-bdb to --with-the-understanding-that-using-this-bdb-may-break-my-wallet ?
 717 2014-03-15 07:45:57 <gmaxwell> he1kki: what does "seems to fail" mean?
 718 2014-03-15 07:46:10 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: see the first half of his sentence however.
 719 2014-03-15 07:46:34 <he1kki> Luke-Jr: I'm building it in debian only for running daemon, not used with wallets
 720 2014-03-15 07:46:48 <Luke-Jr> err
 721 2014-03-15 07:46:58 <cystic850___> Any idea why my time keeps not updating even though I put a new battery in?
 722 2014-03-15 07:47:01 <Luke-Jr> then why are you specifying --with-incompatbile-bdb?
 723 2014-03-15 07:47:11 <Luke-Jr> also, --enable-wallet enables, you want --disable-wallet
 724 2014-03-15 07:47:17 gancl has joined
 725 2014-03-15 07:47:22 <gmaxwell> if you've disable the wallet we won't link bdb at all.
 726 2014-03-15 07:47:36 <wumpus> yes you need --disable-wallet, not --enable=wallet=false 
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 728 2014-03-15 07:48:59 <he1kki> aa, I thought it was changed as it was --disable-wallet previously.
 729 2014-03-15 07:49:14 <he1kki> Probably typoed it or something
 730 2014-03-15 07:49:18 <wumpus> I'm fairly sure it's documented like that in configure --help :)
 731 2014-03-15 07:50:11 <shesek> if a transaction pay hefty fees and uses an unconfirmed transaction as its input, does it effect the priority of that input transaction?
 732 2014-03-15 07:50:39 <shesek> I believe it was mentioned on the ml some time ago as child pay for parent
 733 2014-03-15 07:50:54 <shesek> not quite sure if it was suggested or its implemented
 734 2014-03-15 07:50:57 <wumpus> I'm not sure whether any miners implement cpfp yet
 735 2014-03-15 07:51:00 <gmaxwell> FWIW, I checked and --enable-wallet=no works  but not --enable-wallet=false
 736 2014-03-15 07:51:28 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser
 737 2014-03-15 07:51:40 <wumpus> right, that makes sense
 738 2014-03-15 07:51:58 <gmaxwell> somewhere between 15% and 32% of hashpower does.
 739 2014-03-15 07:52:34 <Luke-Jr> shesek: yes
 740 2014-03-15 07:52:44 <shesek> gmaxwell, ah, cool. do you happen to know which pools?
 741 2014-03-15 07:52:46 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: more like 32-50% now I think
 742 2014-03-15 07:53:01 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I wasn't sure how far $other_parties were in their deployment.
 743 2014-03-15 07:53:03 <Luke-Jr> shesek: Eligius and BTCGuild I think
 744 2014-03-15 07:53:16 <Luke-Jr> EclipseMC too IIRC
 745 2014-03-15 07:53:56 <shesek> great. thanks!
 746 2014-03-15 07:54:15 <Luke-Jr> of course, relaying is another matter..
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 748 2014-03-15 07:54:32 <justanotheruser> What pools are connected to the free relay tx policy node?
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 757 2014-03-15 08:00:11 <lagarde> What is the purpose of this rule in tx validation "For each input, if we are using the nth output of the earlier transaction, but it has fewer than n+1 outputs, reject this transaction "?  Doesn't this mean you can't spend the last output of a transaction?
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 760 2014-03-15 08:02:32 <he1kki> Oh wau. Okay, I used --without-wallet for some reason before why I ended up using incompatible libdb. Thanks for help.
 761 2014-03-15 08:02:44 <gmaxwell> lagarde: no, whoever wrote that text wanted to cause people's brains to melt with 0/1 indexing confusion.
 762 2014-03-15 08:03:46 <lagarde> oh I see know.  sounds like something satoshi would do.
 763 2014-03-15 08:04:00 <gmaxwell> Satoshi most certantly did not write that text.
 764 2014-03-15 08:04:14 <lagarde> jk
 765 2014-03-15 08:04:34 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 766 2014-03-15 08:04:55 <lagarde> referring to his talent for doing things the cryptic way for no discernible reason.
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 772 2014-03-15 08:10:00 <shesek> it is quite an unwieldy way to explain that... it could've been simply something like "reject transactions with inputs that refer to non-existent outputs"
 773 2014-03-15 08:10:20 <shesek> its more like a pseudo code written in English
 774 2014-03-15 08:11:29 <wumpus> so propose a better wording and submit a pull?
 775 2014-03-15 08:13:08 yubrew has joined
 776 2014-03-15 08:13:19 <gmaxwell> it's a wiki, edit the page.
 777 2014-03-15 08:13:55 <shesek> yeah, I just looked up where its from
 778 2014-03-15 08:14:03 <shesek> I don't have edit rights to the wiki
 779 2014-03-15 08:14:22 <Luke-Jr> SomeoneWeird:
 780 2014-03-15 08:14:27 <shesek> also, that pseudo-code-style-of-explaining makes more sense in the context where its written
 781 2014-03-15 08:14:41 <shesek> though that 0/1 indexing is quite confusing
 782 2014-03-15 08:15:14 <SomeoneWeird> "There is no user by the name "shesek"."
 783 2014-03-15 08:15:43 <shesek> I don't have a wiki account... but I'll open one
 784 2014-03-15 08:15:49 olalonde has joined
 785 2014-03-15 08:15:56 <fanquake> Anyone compiling master with Xcode 5.1?
 786 2014-03-15 08:16:16 <shesek> opened
 787 2014-03-15 08:16:28 <SomeoneWeird> shesek, done, you can edit :)
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 789 2014-03-15 08:16:35 <shesek> thanks
 790 2014-03-15 08:17:08 <shesek> shouldn't this cost some bitcoins?
 791 2014-03-15 08:17:14 Muis has joined
 792 2014-03-15 08:17:18 <shesek> to ensure I'm not a spammer and all that :P
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 796 2014-03-15 08:17:56 <Arbynog> any insight into my 36 hr old transfer with 0 confirms? running qt 0.8.5
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 798 2014-03-15 08:18:23 <Arbynog> fee was only .0001 which i think might be the problem, but not sure what i can do about it now
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 800 2014-03-15 08:18:52 <SomeoneWeird> shesek, if you're talking on irc, chances are you're not a spammer :)
 801 2014-03-15 08:19:00 <Arbynog> will this eventually get picked up and do i need to leave my client running?
 802 2014-03-15 08:19:20 <olalonde> gmaxwell: http://syskall.com/blind-liability-proof/ (cc iwilcox, dooglus)
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 807 2014-03-15 08:20:28 <he1kki> Okay, rc0.9rc3 seems to be running ok with my quite common Debian setup. Is there a need to report if I didn't notice any bugs?
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 810 2014-03-15 08:21:52 <gmaxwell> peer review please https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Protocol_rules&diff=45026&oldid=33935
 811 2014-03-15 08:22:05 <gmaxwell> he1kki: it's good to hear positive reports too.
 812 2014-03-15 08:22:47 <he1kki> gmaxwell: Is it okay if I just drop comment like that here in irc?
 813 2014-03-15 08:23:24 <he1kki> I suppose I could do some form filling if required, but it would be certainly easier if I could just drop message here
 814 2014-03-15 08:25:28 <shesek> "Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it"
 815 2014-03-15 08:25:44 <shesek> gmaxwell, I was just editing that too... you beat me to it
 816 2014-03-15 08:26:49 <olalonde> great minds think alike isn't it
 817 2014-03-15 08:27:05 <shesek> olalonde, looks pretty cool. I'd add an option to export an object with the user as the key and the partial tree as the value
 818 2014-03-15 08:27:06 gues has joined
 819 2014-03-15 08:27:38 <shesek> to make it easier to import that data and make it available to users
 820 2014-03-15 08:27:56 <olalonde> shesek: you mean like a download link instead of copy/pasting?
 821 2014-03-15 08:28:31 <shesek> I mean an option to export user->partial-tree mapping in bulk
 822 2014-03-15 08:29:00 <olalonde> shesek: ah I see. I suppose it could be good, thanks
 823 2014-03-15 08:29:00 <shesek> a download would be nice, but just displaying it in a textarea would work too
 824 2014-03-15 08:29:25 <olalonde> the CLI tool already kind of does that but I suppose some people might prefer to use the web tool
 825 2014-03-15 08:29:30 <cystic850___> I wonder If I would get in trouble for running an open source exchange that only takes testnet coins. experimental purposes only ya know? no monetary value
 826 2014-03-15 08:29:35 <shesek> if I were the operator of some system where I wanted to publish that proof to my users, I'd need some convenient way to take that data and import it to my database
 827 2014-03-15 08:29:37 <ne0futur> gmaxwell: many thanks for improving / updating the wiki on this kind of things
 828 2014-03-15 08:29:45 <olalonde> right
 829 2014-03-15 08:30:17 <ne0futur> gmaxwell: can i donate a small 0.02 btc hoping for more ? ;)
 830 2014-03-15 08:30:48 <he1kki> Has anyone considered to try to import blockchain to elasticsearch block-by-block for analysis?
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 832 2014-03-15 08:33:10 <lagarde> Just refreshed and noticed that tx validation comment changed?  If someone here did it you might want to know that the same comment is repeated verbatim under block messages heading.  Step 16(3)
 833 2014-03-15 08:33:13 <olalonde> he1kki: I know there are some tools to sync the blockchain to a relational database. isn't eleasticsearch for plaintext search?
 834 2014-03-15 08:33:45 <lagarde> sorry step 16(2)
 835 2014-03-15 08:33:50 <shesek> what I'd love to do is get the transaction history into a graph database and play around with that
 836 2014-03-15 08:34:15 <shesek> been working a lot with neo4j recently... I could do some pretty cool things with that
 837 2014-03-15 08:34:28 <shesek> too bad I don't have nearly enough resources for that
 838 2014-03-15 08:34:57 <olalonde> I recall there was a website that displayed the transactions as an interactive graph
 839 2014-03-15 08:35:52 <he1kki> olalonde: elasticsearch is noSql db which handles integers and other datatypes quite well
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 841 2014-03-15 08:36:37 <lagarde> gmaxwell:
 842 2014-03-15 08:37:32 <olalonde> ok
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 844 2014-03-15 08:39:10 <olalonde> can't find the link :(
 845 2014-03-15 08:39:33 <lagarde> I think orientdb has some visualisation tools.  A very young project but being very actively developed and has some very good performance compared to neo4j
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 847 2014-03-15 08:40:02 <olalonde> cool
 848 2014-03-15 08:41:13 <shesek> its not just about visualization though, what's interesting is being able to run graph traversal algorithms on the data
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 850 2014-03-15 08:42:32 <petertodd> warren: indeed I did, thanks!
 851 2014-03-15 08:42:36 <lagarde> I would think you could do an awful lot of things to break anonymity with graph dbs
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 853 2014-03-15 08:43:00 <he1kki> Okay. I think I will spend this weekend with trying to do that import into elasticsearch. Let me know if you are trying something similar, as it would be a really good idea to combine resources when handling this amount of data. My VPS with 16Gb RAM will not be enough for full blockchain.
 854 2014-03-15 08:43:19 <olalonde> ah I think I found it...
 855 2014-03-15 08:43:21 <lagarde> could potentially even attack coinjoin by following change
 856 2014-03-15 08:43:30 <cystic850___> Are there any exchanges on the Tor network?
 857 2014-03-15 08:43:31 <olalonde> he1kki: shesek: https://github.com/thallium205/BitcoinVisualizer#blockviewercom (it used neo4j)
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 859 2014-03-15 08:44:27 <olalonde> cystic850___: you should probably ask on #bitcoin
 860 2014-03-15 08:45:05 <he1kki> olalonde: thanks. blockviewer.com does seem like what i'm trying to achieve
 861 2014-03-15 08:45:15 <shesek> olalonde, ah, very interesting!
 862 2014-03-15 08:45:19 <shesek> too bad its offline now
 863 2014-03-15 08:45:40 <cystic850___> thanks will do
 864 2014-03-15 08:46:13 <shesek> I wonder how much it cost him to run that
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 866 2014-03-15 08:48:48 <olalonde> yup.. I think he said on reddit that it was too expensive to run eheh
 867 2014-03-15 08:48:52 <olalonde> maybe that's why it's down
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 869 2014-03-15 08:50:14 <olalonde> would be nice to extract the code that syncs the neo4j database with the blockchain into a standalone project
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 879 2014-03-15 09:05:03 <maaku> lagarde: you can't map changes to outputs in CJ
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 883 2014-03-15 09:11:47 <ne0futur> shesek: if you can code that i can probably provide enough resources
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 885 2014-03-15 09:12:21 <shesek> ne0futur, looks like thallium205 already did that
 886 2014-03-15 09:12:58 <shesek> his repository contains all the code he used to load that data into neo4j and add some interesting relations
 887 2014-03-15 09:13:18 <ne0futur> cool
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 968 2014-03-15 11:05:12 <quench> would I be able to have some help debugging a bitcoin node?
 969 2014-03-15 11:05:46 <quench> no matter what happens, it seems to get stuck loading from the boostrap.dat file, seeing every single block after 100,000 or so as orphan.
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 974 2014-03-15 11:06:23 <quench> ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK 0, prev=000000000000041e017c6573705b9ff9392fc01df8631d66344c7b70a6b6115a
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 976 2014-03-15 11:06:37 <quench> every block is seen as orphan index zero, rather than increasing.
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 988 2014-03-15 11:17:20 <quench> corrupt bootstrap.dat. got it.
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1013 2014-03-15 11:38:55 <jchp> itcoin
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1015 2014-03-15 11:42:31 <benrcole> cool
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1032 2014-03-15 11:56:23 <embicoin> Hello, I have a naive question about the bitcoin client, how is it managing dns seeds since they are not hardcoded anymore?
1033 2014-03-15 11:56:57 closer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1034 2014-03-15 11:56:58 <embicoin> Or please if you can redirect me to a web were I can get recent information about that :(
1035 2014-03-15 11:57:35 closer has joined
1036 2014-03-15 11:58:00 <embicoin> I researched a little, but every info I find is from previous versions, not for 0.9
1037 2014-03-15 11:59:50 <gmaxwell> embicoin: nothing has changed.
1038 2014-03-15 12:00:48 <embicoin> gmaxwell: then, my question is, how a person who runs the bitcoin client for the first time connects with the nodes? Is the info on the wiki?
1039 2014-03-15 12:01:52 <gmaxwell> embicoin: by getting initial nodes from the dnsseeds and failing that from the big hardcoded list of peers.
1040 2014-03-15 12:02:18 <embicoin> I found info on bitcoin.stackexchange about this function:
1041 2014-03-15 12:02:21 <embicoin> static const char *strMainNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
1042 2014-03-15 12:02:23 <embicoin>     {"bitcoin.sipa.be", "seed.bitcoin.sipa.be"},
1043 2014-03-15 12:02:36 <embicoin> but I can't find that function anymore in github code
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1045 2014-03-15 12:03:04 <gmaxwell> embicoin: it's in chainparams.cpp
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1047 2014-03-15 12:03:08 <embicoin> well, not exactly a function, that array better said
1048 2014-03-15 12:03:24 <embicoin> ahhh ! ok, thank you gmaxwell I will head to that :P
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1091 2014-03-15 12:43:24 <sipa> embicoin: it's still there
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1159 2014-03-15 14:08:52 <btc-one> hi
1160 2014-03-15 14:09:15 <btc-one> could I ask something ;-)
1161 2014-03-15 14:09:48 <jgarzik> petertodd, Not a word of credit on your python-bitcoinlib announcement, I notice
1162 2014-03-15 14:09:55 <jgarzik> It's as if you wrote it all yourself
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1164 2014-03-15 14:10:44 <btc-one> is btc client 0.9 already  ready to use ....  rc2  or rc3 ?
1165 2014-03-15 14:11:37 <btc-one> or is it still no good Idea to use it for real transcations ?
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1167 2014-03-15 14:12:19 <jgarzik> btc-one, yes, ready to use
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1171 2014-03-15 14:16:27 <btc-one> I got a Problem with a transcation I did insert 3 days ago ...
1172 2014-03-15 14:16:53 <btc-one> after 1 day it did eve show up in blockchain.info
1173 2014-03-15 14:17:21 <btc-one> status very soon (high priority)
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1175 2014-03-15 14:17:37 <btc-one> but it still did not get inserted in any block
1176 2014-03-15 14:17:49 <murr4y> hi guys. is a var_str encoded with utf-8? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Variable_length_string
1177 2014-03-15 14:18:20 <btc-one> I did  use 0.9 RC2 at this time
1178 2014-03-15 14:18:27 <jgarzik> murr4y, no
1179 2014-03-15 14:18:33 <btc-one> could it bee a problem of 0.9 ?
1180 2014-03-15 14:18:53 <murr4y> jgarzik: ok, then what? just ascii?
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1183 2014-03-15 14:19:42 <btc-one> wanne know the tx ID ?
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1188 2014-03-15 14:22:28 <btc-one> and yes .... there is a fee ,,,,,  0.0003 BTC :-)
1189 2014-03-15 14:22:29 <gribble> Error: ",,," is not a valid command.
1190 2014-03-15 14:22:45 <btc-one> and yes .... there is a fee ,,,, 0.0003 BTC :-)
1191 2014-03-15 14:22:46 <gribble> Error: ",," is not a valid command.
1192 2014-03-15 14:23:04 <btc-one> and yes     there is a fee     0.0003 BTC :-)
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1195 2014-03-15 14:24:06 <btc-one> soneone wanne have a look on it ?
1196 2014-03-15 14:25:24 <btc-one> tx id       d0b18bee3714ef9074418c791f7e1f8256b1d7b9728be4ee76b38dd202847b92
1197 2014-03-15 14:27:30 <petertodd> jgarzik: yeah, your right, my apologies
1198 2014-03-15 14:28:01 <petertodd> jgarzik: I had it in my mind that everyone knew where it came from - hence the "my fork" part - but of coruse that's totally wrong
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1201 2014-03-15 14:29:50 <btc-one> jagarzik: do you think it could be a 0.9 problem ?
1202 2014-03-15 14:30:24 <btc-one> should I try a double spend ? .. like inserting my priv keys into a new wallet and spend the coins again ?
1203 2014-03-15 14:30:37 <btc-one> or should I still wait ?
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1207 2014-03-15 14:35:18 <btc-one> should I ask later about it ?
1208 2014-03-15 14:35:42 <petertodd> jgarzik: I hope that clears things up to your satisfaction
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1268 2014-03-15 15:38:44 <ebfull> what happens when you receive an orphan tx, and then receive a non-orphan tx that spends from one or more of the inputs of the orphan tx
1269 2014-03-15 15:38:50 <ebfull> is the orphan tx removed from mapOrphans
1270 2014-03-15 15:38:55 <ebfull> is the new tx rejected?
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1273 2014-03-15 15:40:14 <btcdesigner_> anyone looking for design ui/ux help? looking to participate in projects, particularly mobile.
1274 2014-03-15 15:41:31 <dogeplops> depends what size project ur looking for
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1278 2014-03-15 15:43:47 <btcdesigner_> open to projects of most sizes... i've got about ~30-40hrs/week to spend.
1279 2014-03-15 15:44:32 <daybyter> that's a lot.
1280 2014-03-15 15:46:10 <sipa> ebfull: anything that depends on an orphan, is an orphan
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1282 2014-03-15 15:47:30 <daybyter> btcdesigner_: you are looking for a collab?
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1286 2014-03-15 15:48:16 <shesek> btcdesigner_, it would perhaps help people if you linked to some previous work
1287 2014-03-15 15:48:16 non2_ is now known as non2
1288 2014-03-15 15:48:32 <shesek> though I'm not sure that's the appropriate channel for that, probably more suitable to #bitcoin
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1290 2014-03-15 15:48:58 <daybyter> I'm working on tradebot code.
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1293 2014-03-15 15:49:15 <daybyter> some UI help might be helpful.
1294 2014-03-15 15:49:32 <daybyter> but I don't do much webcode yet.
1295 2014-03-15 15:49:42 <lle> some ui would make all the diff. make it
1296 2014-03-15 15:49:46 <daybyter> this UI has just been started.
1297 2014-03-15 15:49:50 <lle> i'm not making it. you make it
1298 2014-03-15 15:50:07 <ebfull> sipa: i mean like this http://i.imgur.com/MiYITCr.png
1299 2014-03-15 15:50:11 <btcdesigner_> daybyter: yep open to collabs.
1300 2014-03-15 15:50:13 <daybyter> I only did java ui yet.
1301 2014-03-15 15:50:35 <daybyter> http://i.imgur.com/xpqoqnk.png
1302 2014-03-15 15:50:38 <ebfull> if tx3 tries to spend from a non-orphan input, that an orphan tx is spending from, is the orphan tx removed or is the new tx rejected
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1304 2014-03-15 15:50:55 <daybyter> http://i.imgur.com/MqHfF.jpg
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1306 2014-03-15 15:51:04 <daybyter> wrote stuff like that.
1307 2014-03-15 15:51:22 <daybyter> there are 2 fields with mobile stuff involved.
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1309 2014-03-15 15:51:52 <daybyter> 1. an android app for controlling the app (running on a server).
1310 2014-03-15 15:52:07 <lle> dude screw collabs you could have written the app by now with go
1311 2014-03-15 15:52:08 <daybyter> 2. a web UI for the app acting as a trade server.
1312 2014-03-15 15:52:18 <lle> i got faith in you
1313 2014-03-15 15:52:42 <daybyter> I don't know go.
1314 2014-03-15 15:52:52 <sipa> ebfull: there are 3 layers: 1) the blockchain  2) the mempool  3) the orpahn pool
1315 2014-03-15 15:52:53 <lle> you could have written the app by now. go. *
1316 2014-03-15 15:53:27 <sipa> ebfull: the mempool is always consistent with the blockchain
1317 2014-03-15 15:53:32 <sipa> ebfull: but the orphan pool isn't
1318 2014-03-15 15:53:38 <btcdesigner_> shesek: some mobile ui work that doesn't show much except aesthetic: http://imgur.com/Yz3xHHk (if anyone's serious about working on a project together, i'm willing to share more past work in private)
1319 2014-03-15 15:54:06 <sipa> btcdesigner_: you may want to collaborate with aschildbach, who's the author of bitcoin wallet for android?
1320 2014-03-15 15:54:30 <ebfull> sipa: alright, so in my example tx3 would be placed in the mempool, and tx2 would conflict and be removed from maporphans
1321 2014-03-15 15:54:44 <ebfull> when would tx2 be removed from mapOrphans? immediately or when a block is solved which creates the conflict
1322 2014-03-15 15:54:46 <sipa> ebfull: i believe we don't actually remove things from the orphan pool
1323 2014-03-15 15:54:51 <btcdesigner_> sipa: yep—android would be great, quite familiar with it + iOS.
1324 2014-03-15 15:54:52 <sipa> ebfull: it just overflows
1325 2014-03-15 15:54:56 <ebfull> okay
1326 2014-03-15 15:55:23 <daybyter> I also did some btc-e code with phonegap and a simple javascript game.
1327 2014-03-15 15:56:04 <daybyter> http://i.imgur.com/qmcEI.png
1328 2014-03-15 15:56:22 <jakov> eclipse
1329 2014-03-15 15:56:26 <jakov> havent seen that in years
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1331 2014-03-15 15:56:51 <shesek> btcdesigner_, I'm actually looking for someone to help with a project of mine... but its not mobile, and I probably prefer someone local
1332 2014-03-15 15:58:02 <btcdesigner_> shesek: i've done my fair share of web and native desktop software work as well. pm?
1333 2014-03-15 15:58:23 <shesek> sure
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1405 2014-03-15 17:01:38 <jgarzik> petertodd, Well, it's not just about my own self-aggrandizement :)  Transition in open source projects generally wants a bit more coordination, to avoid confusing the users, or having the users think you are "stealing" the project.
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1409 2014-03-15 17:02:09 <jgarzik> petertodd, An ideal transition gives the lineage as well as some measure of assurance that users following your fork will not regret abandoning the other fork.
1410 2014-03-15 17:03:17 <kanzure> why would a developer have to choose only one fork?
1411 2014-03-15 17:03:50 <jgarzik> petertodd, No big deal in this case, but in general, as an open source maintainer you want to think about the users impacted in any maintainership change.
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1413 2014-03-15 17:04:59 <petertodd> jgarzik: yeah, my experience with transitioning open source projects is.. uh... zero :)
1414 2014-03-15 17:05:57 <petertodd> if anything I was more thinking about how I had done a few dozen commits changing stuff when I knew people were suddenly using it - wanted to at least give them a baseline to tag too
1415 2014-03-15 17:06:45 <petertodd> of course, that flood of pull-reqs is giving me second thoughts :P
1416 2014-03-15 17:06:59 <jgarzik> petertodd, That's why I bugged you to push it my way!
1417 2014-03-15 17:07:37 <petertodd> heh, and I *still* haven't had a reason to look at the networking code that I can justify :/
1418 2014-03-15 17:07:37 <jgarzik> petertodd, "maintainer" is a title that includes responsibility and expectations of maintenance and leadership over time ;p
1419 2014-03-15 17:07:51 <petertodd> lol, other than that :)
1420 2014-03-15 17:08:59 <jgarzik> petertodd, protip: observe who else is actively submitting stuff, and encourage them to review and ACK other pull requests, or help polish ones not mergeable as-is
1421 2014-03-15 17:09:10 <jgarzik> delegate -> less work for you, to accomplish same goals
1422 2014-03-15 17:09:50 <jgarzik> petertodd, Start off subtle and sly, just ask their opinion on a random pull req
1423 2014-03-15 17:09:58 <petertodd> ha, good idea
1424 2014-03-15 17:10:28 <jgarzik> Another favorite Linux kernel tactic is the troll patch -- solving a problem in a quick, dirty and lame way, intending to piss off one or more programmers who will write the correct solution.
1425 2014-03-15 17:10:54 <petertodd> yeah, you've mentioned that before... and demonstrated
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1451 2014-03-15 17:23:31 <mrkent> Any guides on varying web wallet architechture?
1452 2014-03-15 17:24:48 <petertodd> mrkent: I have writing soemthing kinda close to that on my todo list actually
1453 2014-03-15 17:25:32 <petertodd> specifically exchange architecture - depending on what you mean by web wallet that's similar
1454 2014-03-15 17:25:48 <mrkent> petertodd, care to share?
1455 2014-03-15 17:26:31 <petertodd> I've just ngot notes on paper right now :( it'd be published ithe n bitcoin-development mailing list
1456 2014-03-15 17:26:31 <mrkent> It seems like lost of sites have their own design
1457 2014-03-15 17:26:40 <petertodd> (sometime prior to the heatdeath of the universe...)
1458 2014-03-15 17:26:59 smash has joined
1459 2014-03-15 17:27:20 <petertodd> yeah, I was going to write about how to do pervasive two-factor controls, which may or may not be what you're thinking about
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1463 2014-03-15 17:31:49 <mrkent> petertodd, more than anything, I'd like to look at different designs to think about it
1464 2014-03-15 17:32:14 <petertodd> mrkent: well, what I'm going to write about is relatively specific (it's in part for a client)
1465 2014-03-15 17:32:29 <mrkent> by 2-factor, you mean something like google-auth + single-signature txn?
1466 2014-03-15 17:32:45 <petertodd> mrkent: no, I mean stuff like multisig addresses
1467 2014-03-15 17:32:52 <mrkent> oh okay
1468 2014-03-15 17:33:13 <petertodd> mrkent: ie, have two parallel softwear chains running to verify that customer intent is in fact being follows, and no-one outside or inside the exchange is tampering with anything
1469 2014-03-15 17:34:20 <mrkent> petertodd, I'm probably looking for something less specific
1470 2014-03-15 17:34:29 <petertodd> quite likely!
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1476 2014-03-15 17:43:53 <sipa> ;;nethash
1477 2014-03-15 17:43:54 <gribble> 33769395.6729
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1482 2014-03-15 17:46:48 <sipa> ;;diff
1483 2014-03-15 17:46:48 <gribble> 4.2502179198695354E9
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1528 2014-03-15 18:21:22 btc-one has joined
1529 2014-03-15 18:21:38 <btc-one> Hi
1530 2014-03-15 18:22:13 <btc-one> I got problems with 0.9  rc2
1531 2014-03-15 18:22:50 olalonde has left ()
1532 2014-03-15 18:23:08 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1533 2014-03-15 18:23:09 <btc-one> one transactions (with fees) hangs since days  but is shown at blockchain.info
1534 2014-03-15 18:23:09 HeySteve has joined
1535 2014-03-15 18:23:40 <btc-one> could this be a  client 0.9 problem ?
1536 2014-03-15 18:24:20 Ursium has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1537 2014-03-15 18:25:33 <btc-one> tx id d0b18bee3714ef9074418c791f7e1f8256b1d7b9728be4ee76b38dd202847b92
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1539 2014-03-15 18:27:26 <btc-one> only bots online  ? :-)
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1544 2014-03-15 18:29:14 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser
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1554 2014-03-15 18:44:00 <btc-one> someone alive :-)
1555 2014-03-15 18:44:04 <btc-one> ?
1556 2014-03-15 18:45:14 jupiterfunk has joined
1557 2014-03-15 18:45:36 <jupiterfunk> Hello.  In coinbase transaction, is total (combined) output value always total input value?
1558 2014-03-15 18:45:38 <sipa> no
1559 2014-03-15 18:45:46 <sipa> jupiterfunk: it can be less
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1561 2014-03-15 18:46:40 <jupiterfunk> How to get total coinbase value?  Is coinbase value stored somewhere?  (It doesn't seem I can be able to access it using JSON-RPC getrawtransaction).
1562 2014-03-15 18:47:22 <sipa> yes you can
1563 2014-03-15 18:47:27 <sipa> the sum of the outputs of the coinbase
1564 2014-03-15 18:47:28 Gyps has joined
1565 2014-03-15 18:47:35 <justanotheruser> btc-one: does it show up on bc.i as unconfirmed?
1566 2014-03-15 18:48:21 <justanotheruser> btc-one: appears so. Do getrawmempool | grep d0b18bee3714ef9074418c791f7e1f8256b1d7b9728be4ee76b38dd202847b92
1567 2014-03-15 18:49:03 <jupiterfunk> sipa, Okay, thanks.  I just thought there is some way to get expected coinbase value (reward + fees).
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1572 2014-03-15 18:55:10 <justanotheruser> ne0futur: Are you here?
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1575 2014-03-15 18:58:31 <btc-one> justanotheruser: yes  .. unconfirmed
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1577 2014-03-15 18:59:56 <btc-one> the getrawmempool stuff .. were to run this
1578 2014-03-15 19:00:02 <btc-one> ?
1579 2014-03-15 19:00:23 <sipa> rpc
1580 2014-03-15 19:01:21 <btc-one> don't have the clinet on this pc here
1581 2014-03-15 19:01:32 <btc-one> yould you please try for me ?
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1586 2014-03-15 19:05:03 Tyklol is now known as Tykling
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1593 2014-03-15 19:11:42 <justanotheruser> btc-one: I would if I wasn't reindexing :/
1594 2014-03-15 19:13:31 <btc-one> were sould I enter this ? in the debug window?
1595 2014-03-15 19:16:06 _ImI_ has joined
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1597 2014-03-15 19:20:29 <justanotheruser> btc-one: what program are you running?
1598 2014-03-15 19:20:30 <btc-one> do ... thanks vpn ..  did get it .. but this ID is not in mempool
1599 2014-03-15 19:20:59 <btc-one> running core client 0.9  .. rc2
1600 2014-03-15 19:21:03 <btc-one> no .. rc3 now
1601 2014-03-15 19:21:09 <justanotheruser> btc-one: when did you broadcast it?
1602 2014-03-15 19:21:40 <btc-one> 03/13
1603 2014-03-15 19:21:47 <btc-one> 3 days ago
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1605 2014-03-15 19:22:29 <justanotheruser> btc-one: yeah, you should probably rebroadcast it with a higher fee
1606 2014-03-15 19:23:08 orperelman has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1607 2014-03-15 19:23:17 <btc-one> justanotheruser: how to do this ... wuth clinet 0.9 ?
1608 2014-03-15 19:23:30 AriseChikun has joined
1609 2014-03-15 19:23:51 <justanotheruser> btc-one: Is that not the same client you used to broadcast it originally?
1610 2014-03-15 19:24:27 <btc-one> it was 0.9 rc2
1611 2014-03-15 19:24:28 rastapopuloto_1 has joined
1612 2014-03-15 19:24:38 <btc-one> now I use  0.9 rc3
1613 2014-03-15 19:25:04 <justanotheruser> btc-one: do you still have the keys?
1614 2014-03-15 19:26:42 <btc-one> justanotheruser: what keys ? my priv keys ?  yes
1615 2014-03-15 19:27:38 <justanotheruser> btc-one: well if it has been 3 days, I think the client lets you respend those coins.
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1617 2014-03-15 19:29:16 p11 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1620 2014-03-15 19:29:50 <btc-one> ok...   I'try this ... how big should the Fee be ?
1621 2014-03-15 19:31:46 rastapopuloto_1 has left ("Leaving")
1622 2014-03-15 19:32:41 <btc-one> Justanotehruser: Thanks anyway ...  go off now
1623 2014-03-15 19:32:44 <btc-one> bye
1624 2014-03-15 19:32:49 <justanotheruser> btc-one: 0.0005 should be fine i think
1625 2014-03-15 19:32:51 <justanotheruser> bye
1626 2014-03-15 19:33:06 btc-one has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1627 2014-03-15 19:33:36 <Apocalyptic> <justanotheruser> btc-one: well if it has been 3 days, I think the client lets you respend those coins. // the mere fact I see the tx in bc.i means it didn't drop from their mempool
1628 2014-03-15 19:33:56 <Apocalyptic> chances are it's still present in most of them and your new tx won't relay
1629 2014-03-15 19:34:29 <sipa> which client?
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1631 2014-03-15 19:37:36 <justanotheruser> Apocalyptic: IIRC, any tx that has been in the reference clients mempool for 24-48 hours gets removed
1632 2014-03-15 19:37:50 <sipa> justanotheruser: eh, no
1633 2014-03-15 19:38:00 <sipa> nothing gets removed from the mempool ever
1634 2014-03-15 19:38:08 <sipa> unless a conflict is mined
1635 2014-03-15 19:38:35 <sipa> or the node gets restarted
1636 2014-03-15 19:38:58 <justanotheruser> sipa: Can a tx with the same outputs be relayed by someone with the formed tx in their mempool after 2 days
1637 2014-03-15 19:39:06 <sipa> no
1638 2014-03-15 19:39:14 <sipa> it's a double spend
1639 2014-03-15 19:39:14 <Apocalyptic> ofc it can't justanotheruser
1640 2014-03-15 19:39:28 <sipa> same input, you mean, i think?
1641 2014-03-15 19:39:36 <Apocalyptic> probably
1642 2014-03-15 19:39:42 <justanotheruser> sipa: haha, I meant spending the same outputs
1643 2014-03-15 19:39:53 <Apocalyptic> you spend inputs
1644 2014-03-15 19:40:01 <sipa> inputs spend outputs
1645 2014-03-15 19:40:07 <justanotheruser> yep
1646 2014-03-15 19:40:10 <Apocalyptic> ok
1647 2014-03-15 19:40:11 <sipa> so, no
1648 2014-03-15 19:40:29 <sipa> if you have a second transaction spending the same inputs, it's a double spend
1649 2014-03-15 19:40:32 <sipa> and is ignored
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1651 2014-03-15 19:40:46 <justanotheruser> well outputs are spend, otherwise the "unspent tx output" set wouldn't be said that way
1652 2014-03-15 19:40:57 <justanotheruser> *spent
1653 2014-03-15 19:41:30 <justanotheruser> sipa: so what, he just has to wait for a miner to pick up the tx?
1654 2014-03-15 19:41:53 <Apocalyptic> or supply directly another miner with his second tx
1655 2014-03-15 19:42:10 <sipa> justanotheruser: in practice there is some churn by nodes being restarted
1656 2014-03-15 19:42:13 <Apocalyptic> provided he will want to mine it and ignore the first tx
1657 2014-03-15 19:42:22 <sipa> so connecting to other nodes and broadcasting a double spend after some time works
1658 2014-03-15 19:42:56 <justanotheruser> sipa: weird. Shouldn't the client do this automatically? I mean, unconfirmed tx are worthless
1659 2014-03-15 19:43:04 <sipa> justanotheruser: maybe
1660 2014-03-15 19:43:12 <sipa> justanotheruser: but it can't be enforced
1661 2014-03-15 19:43:23 <sipa> as you can just rebroadcast
1662 2014-03-15 19:43:24 <justanotheruser> sipa: neither can relaying in general
1663 2014-03-15 19:43:30 <sipa> anyone can rebroadcast
1664 2014-03-15 19:44:03 <justanotheruser> Apocalyptic: how does one push a doublespend to a miner? The only pool connected to the free transaction relay policy is eligus and they don't take doublespends
1665 2014-03-15 19:44:21 <justanotheruser> I realize it's possible in theory, but is it possible in practice?
1666 2014-03-15 19:44:35 <jcorgan> sipa: did you see my question last night about the "extra" files in the repo?
1667 2014-03-15 19:44:37 <Apocalyptic> I know, I don't know of any publicly accessible way
1668 2014-03-15 19:45:05 <sipa> jcorgan: no
1669 2014-03-15 19:45:13 <justanotheruser> That is a problem IMO. There is a huge misconception on /r/bitcoin that 0-conf tx are safe just because you can view the network and see it's propogation
1670 2014-03-15 19:45:28 <jcorgan> setup.py, README, bitcoinrpc/ and jsonrpc/
1671 2014-03-15 19:45:40 <sipa> jcorgan: oh, isn't that fixed?
1672 2014-03-15 19:45:44 <jcorgan> it looks like the source tree for bitcoinrpc got overlayed and checked in
1673 2014-03-15 19:45:48 <sipa> jcorgan: that was a failed subtree merge
1674 2014-03-15 19:46:10 <Apocalyptic> justanotheruser, that's hardly the only misconception on reddit regarding the protocol :p
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1676 2014-03-15 19:46:30 <jcorgan> still there
1677 2014-03-15 19:46:31 <justanotheruser> Apocalyptic: but it is the most popular one this week :P
1678 2014-03-15 19:46:34 <jcorgan> that would explain it
1679 2014-03-15 19:46:57 <jcorgan> should i do a pull request for those to be deleted?
1680 2014-03-15 19:47:29 <sipa> we should probably delete it using subtree
1681 2014-03-15 19:47:49 <jcorgan> slightly beyond my git-fu, never used subtrees before
1682 2014-03-15 19:48:35 <jcorgan> also, the 0.9.0 branch inherited these, so i needs to be done on both master and that
1683 2014-03-15 19:48:39 <jcorgan> it needs
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1686 2014-03-15 19:49:51 bdhuser has joined
1687 2014-03-15 19:51:20 <jcorgan> also, after undoing that, what was the original intent of the commit?
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1693 2014-03-15 19:54:32 <bdhuser> hello
1694 2014-03-15 19:54:48 smash has joined
1695 2014-03-15 19:56:51 <bdhuser> I am a bit confused about the term "Inventory Vector" in the bitcoin spesification, is the single pair object type identifier and object hash considered a vector? or is a vector of such pairs considered an inventory vector?
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1701 2014-03-15 19:59:27 <cystic850___> So I'm working on a open source testnet exchange, any thoughts? found some abandoned code and got it somewhat running, thought I would publish instructions to get it going to maybe revive it. demo: ml6giz3jcdbd4a7r.onion
1702 2014-03-15 19:59:41 <sipa> bdhuser: the vector is a list of inventory items
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1708 2014-03-15 20:00:56 <bdhuser> sipa: yes, the name would seem to indicate that, but in the spec it actually is given format of pair: uint32_t,char[32] ?
1709 2014-03-15 20:01:14 gunnis has joined
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1711 2014-03-15 20:01:41 <bdhuser> and when used, e.g. in inv message, they refer to type inv_vect[], and comment "Intentory vectorS"?
1712 2014-03-15 20:01:46 <bdhuser> with plural
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1715 2014-03-15 20:02:26 <bdhuser> so it seems each element in that array is an inventory vector, and the whole inv message has an array of inventory vectors
1716 2014-03-15 20:02:53 <bdhuser> weird naming, thats why I had to ask, make sure Im getting it
1717 2014-03-15 20:03:08 c0rw1n has joined
1718 2014-03-15 20:04:29 <sipa> so fix it ;
1719 2014-03-15 20:04:41 <sipa> :)
1720 2014-03-15 20:05:28 Maelstromm has joined
1721 2014-03-15 20:05:35 <bdhuser> fix it? as in edit it, Im free to do that? *stunned*
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1724 2014-03-15 20:07:05 <saracen> Why is inventory known as an "inventory vector", rather than just "inventory", anyway?
1725 2014-03-15 20:07:46 <bdhuser> I agree, should be inventory item, or something like that
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1727 2014-03-15 20:08:29 <cfields> saracen: fwiw, i implemented as a std::vector<std::pair<uint32_t, char[32]>>
1728 2014-03-15 20:08:36 <cfields> assuming we're talking about the same thing
1729 2014-03-15 20:09:45 <cfields> saracen: if you're working on data type stuff, we may be able to help eachother out
1730 2014-03-15 20:09:46 <bdhuser> yes, that looks like an actual inventory vector, but the spec on bitcoin.it refers to only std::pair<uint32_t, char[32]> as an inventory vector, and that whole thing you wrote as a vector of inventory vectors
1731 2014-03-15 20:10:12 <cfields> i have em all mapped out, i'm spec'ing out the protocol
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1733 2014-03-15 20:10:31 Application has joined
1734 2014-03-15 20:10:34 <saracen> cfields: I think you mean bdhuser - he's the one that's really talking about this stuff :)
1735 2014-03-15 20:10:41 ninsei has joined
1736 2014-03-15 20:10:45 <cfields> er right, sorry
1737 2014-03-15 20:10:53 <bdhuser> saracen: ty
1738 2014-03-15 20:12:06 <bdhuser> cfields: are you writing up a new spec? is this for the new bitcoin developer guide on bitcoindev.us.to ?
1739 2014-03-15 20:12:51 <saracen> bdhuser: I agree. I'm not sure it's worth changing on the wiki at this point. btcd (the full node written in Go) calls it InvVect too. Other implementations might at this point. I guess it's just what it has come to be known as
1740 2014-03-15 20:12:54 <cfields> bdhuser: i'm creating a spec in xml, and a generator to create native bindings
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1742 2014-03-15 20:14:59 <bdhuser> saracen: Agree. I will start a revolt by renaming it to InventoryItem in my new java node, thanks for the clarification anyway!
1743 2014-03-15 20:15:49 <bdhuser> cfields: not sure I follow the last part about a generator for native binding, what does that mean?
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1745 2014-03-15 20:16:15 <cfields> bdhuser: easiest example is wayland. have you heard of it? display protocol for linux
1746 2014-03-15 20:16:27 <bdhuser>  no, checking it out now
1747 2014-03-15 20:16:44 <cfields> it's not relevant, just seeing if you'd heard of it
1748 2014-03-15 20:17:03 <cfields> anyway, it's a display protocol that can be used by anyone who implements the spec. same as bitcoin
1749 2014-03-15 20:17:05 <bdhuser> oh ok
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1751 2014-03-15 20:17:17 <cfields> but it's not a lib or a program, just a definition
1752 2014-03-15 20:17:19 <cfields> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/tree/protocol/wayland.xml
1753 2014-03-15 20:17:54 <ne0futur> justanotheruser: no
1754 2014-03-15 20:18:38 <cfields> bdhuser: i'll have a lengthy description when i push out the code.
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1756 2014-03-15 20:19:14 <cfields> bdhuser: in the meantime, if you have questions about data types, feel free to ask. since i've probably poked at the same problems recently
1757 2014-03-15 20:19:14 <bdhuser> cfields: cool
1758 2014-03-15 20:19:21 <bdhuser> great
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1760 2014-03-15 20:20:55 <justanotheruser> ne0futur: can you confirm this? http://pastebin.com/E8iU1kbK line 106
1761 2014-03-15 20:21:28 <bdhuser> cfields: the addr_list field in addr message includes paired timestamps and network addresses, however the spec is not clear about whether a single addr message can mix adresses which are and are not prefixed by a timestamp?
1762 2014-03-15 20:22:04 <sipa> bdhuser: the presence of the timestamp depends on the protocol version
1763 2014-03-15 20:22:09 <bdhuser> it says version >= 31402 will include prefixes, but in the same breath also says they may not be included some times
1764 2014-03-15 20:22:26 <sipa> they are always included with version >= 31402
1765 2014-03-15 20:22:30 <bdhuser> ok great
1766 2014-03-15 20:22:35 <sipa> however, the protocol bootstraps at version 209
1767 2014-03-15 20:22:48 <sipa> which means that inside the version message, the embedded addr does not have a timestamp
1768 2014-03-15 20:23:01 <sipa> as the version is only upgraded when the verack arrives
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1772 2014-03-15 20:25:27 <cfields> bdhuser: iirc in that case i use a net_addr structure without timestamp. then the addr_list is a vector of pairs of uint32_t+net_addr
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1774 2014-03-15 20:26:15 <bdhuser> sipa: version upgrade, specc says nothing about this! wow, I thought the version message just depended on version as it says?
1775 2014-03-15 20:26:35 <ne0futur> justanotheruser: yes i said that, but thats old, before the malleability problem have been known, most probably related to dhs and conlab
1776 2014-03-15 20:27:02 <ne0futur> justanotheruser: and its offtopic here anyway, try ##mtgox-freespeech
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1779 2014-03-15 20:32:54 <sipa> bdhuser: feel free to update the documentation, please
1780 2014-03-15 20:32:58 <cfields> bdhuser: as sipa said, a node receives a message and treats it as a very old version (it doesn't know what version the client speaks), then after the client has requested a version the node uses that one if possible
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1782 2014-03-15 20:33:35 <cfields> er.. de-kludgify the above, but you get the gist :)
1783 2014-03-15 20:33:36 <jcorgan> sipa: i pr'd two commits, one for master and one for 0.9.0, that just used 'git revert' to undo whatever was done by that failed subtree merge
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1785 2014-03-15 20:33:47 <sipa> jcorgan: only pr for master
1786 2014-03-15 20:33:53 <sipa> we'll cherry pick in 0.9
1787 2014-03-15 20:34:06 <jcorgan> ok, i'll close the 0.9.0 one
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1791 2014-03-15 20:36:33 <bdhuser> sipa: I will try to do that, but its becoming clear to me that it my present understanding is not correct, so I will have to wait until Im on top of this, but yes, I will def. do that
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1793 2014-03-15 20:38:09 <bdhuser> cfields: Im afraid Im not following entirely, isnt the first message sent by each node a version message reflecting their version, and then they send verack if the version number they received is not greater than their own?
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1799 2014-03-15 20:41:30 <BCB> what is the url of the new bitcoin protocl website
1800 2014-03-15 20:41:34 <BCB> (please)
1801 2014-03-15 20:41:42 <cfields> bdhuser: the version message contains the net_addr structures (and others). the other end may not understand the current version of those structures. so they're sent at a base version
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1803 2014-03-15 20:41:48 <cfields> that's if my understanding is correct.
1804 2014-03-15 20:43:25 <bdhuser> cfields: ok, that makes sense. So, what would you say is the best way for me to get on top of how the protocl actually works, with all its nuances, is there no other way except reading source or getting out my packet sniffer?
1805 2014-03-15 20:43:46 <cfields> bdhuser: unsure, i'm doing the same thing myself
1806 2014-03-15 20:43:57 <cfields> my answer was: rewrite it in a way that makes sense to me
1807 2014-03-15 20:44:19 <cfields> in the process, i'm hoping to make it self-documenting so that others may benefit
1808 2014-03-15 20:44:30 <bdhuser> yeah thats what im trying to do, but I want my node to actually be able to talk to the existing btc network, so your saying you looked at raw traffic?
1809 2014-03-15 20:45:18 <bdhuser> I think that would actually help out a lot, any developer looking at getting into this will be much encouraged with proper documentation
1810 2014-03-15 20:45:30 <cfields> i used the wiki as a base, and implemented each message. dumped to hex so i could see what was going on an analyze the quirks
1811 2014-03-15 20:45:36 <bdhuser> I see
1812 2014-03-15 20:45:38 <bdhuser> ok
1813 2014-03-15 20:46:44 <bdhuser> Id say that the lack of transparency almost sort of undermines the openness of the project. It should be crystal clear what is going on.
1814 2014-03-15 20:46:53 <cfields> bdhuser: here are the relevant parts there: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=a5JekXxr
1815 2014-03-15 20:47:14 <cfields> that's a major work-in-progress of course, so it's not very helpful atm
1816 2014-03-15 20:47:56 <bdhuser> yeah thats nice and clean, allows me to not stress about endianess all the time
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1821 2014-03-15 20:50:02 <cfields> bdhuser: i take it you're a java dev, then?
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1825 2014-03-15 20:54:32 <BCB> ;;seen jgarzik
1826 2014-03-15 20:54:32 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 hours, 44 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <jgarzik> Another favorite Linux kernel tactic is the troll patch -- solving a problem in a quick, dirty and lame way, intending to piss off one or more programmers who will write the correct solution.
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1839 2014-03-15 21:03:56 <bdhuser> cfields: well Im doing this in java, which I know reasonably well, picked it since it feels easier than c/c++ to build prototypes in.
1840 2014-03-15 21:05:04 <cfields> bdhuser: well if you're interested in collaborating a bit, i was hoping to get some bindings for python/java for the protocol builder i'm doing
1841 2014-03-15 21:05:29 <cfields> i'm hoping to have it pushed out within a week, but i said that last week :\
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1846 2014-03-15 21:06:27 <bdhuser> cfields: I am def. up for some collaboration, just trying to learn as much as I can at the moment. finishing my phd soon, ant hinking of doing bitcoin development full time.
1847 2014-03-15 21:06:46 <cfields> great :)
1848 2014-03-15 21:06:55 <cfields> i'll be sure to ping you
1849 2014-03-15 21:07:08 <bdhuser> looking forward to it!
1850 2014-03-15 21:07:51 <cfields> gavinandresen: ping
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1852 2014-03-15 21:08:50 <cfields> gavinandresen: it's a bit late in the game, but i've got osx qt5 building on linux. I could have a presentable bitcoin build with it in ~1day i should think.
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1928 2014-03-15 22:19:12 <ericdc> Hi guys I want to start working on BitcoinQT version 0.9.0 and I can't figure out what IDE you guys use. Could anyone point me in the right direction? I don't want to spend 10 hours setting up a development environment
1929 2014-03-15 22:19:52 <sipa> i use mcedit
1930 2014-03-15 22:20:00 <nsh> MS Visual Eclipse
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1933 2014-03-15 22:20:32 <ericdc> Do you guys have a wiki or something I can follow?
1934 2014-03-15 22:20:38 hmmma has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1935 2014-03-15 22:20:49 <ericdc> I need a working Debugger etc.. not just an editor...
1936 2014-03-15 22:20:50 <sipa> bitcoin.it
1937 2014-03-15 22:20:54 <sipa> gdb
1938 2014-03-15 22:22:33 <sipa> (not saying that's what you should use, but the answer is pretty much: anything you're familiar with probably works best)
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1941 2014-03-15 22:25:20 <justanotheruser> ericdc: what are you trying to debug? Bitcoin scripts?
1942 2014-03-15 22:25:37 <sipa> the bitcoin source code, i gues
1943 2014-03-15 22:25:51 <ericdc> yes
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1947 2014-03-15 22:28:00 <arubi> ask #bitcoin-dev: would anyone in this channel ever trust a hardware wallet, for example trezor?
1948 2014-03-15 22:28:28 <jakov> if its open source and you can verify it, why not?
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1950 2014-03-15 22:28:44 <jakov> i dont know how to electronics so well so id wait a while
1951 2014-03-15 22:28:50 <arubi> can you ever trust the hardware?
1952 2014-03-15 22:29:11 <jakov> i see what you're saying
1953 2014-03-15 22:29:24 <jakov> probably no, i guess weigh it up on how much money you're storing
1954 2014-03-15 22:29:31 <jakov> paper wallets will still have a place i think
1955 2014-03-15 22:29:45 <arubi> yea that's what I think too
1956 2014-03-15 22:30:22 hanti is now known as HANTI
1957 2014-03-15 22:30:29 <jakov> the hardware is specially made for bitcoin, it would be easier if it was a generic hardware that just happened to be used for bitcoin
1958 2014-03-15 22:30:50 <jakov> hey couldnt you do the same thing as trezor but with a rapsberry pi? talk to your computer over USB and sign transactions
1959 2014-03-15 22:31:05 <jakov> just read data from the usb, dont execute any code from it
1960 2014-03-15 22:31:37 <arubi> I was toying with the idea of a hardware wallet on a rockbox mp3 device
1961 2014-03-15 22:31:53 <arubi> they can run pretty impressive software, even the most simple ones
1962 2014-03-15 22:32:04 AriseChikun has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1963 2014-03-15 22:32:04 <arubi> I have a sansa clip that runs doom (!?)
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1968 2014-03-15 22:33:40 <arubi> you can even have the device talking to the computer using sounds (speaker to mic cable) and have 100% one way communication
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1972 2014-03-15 22:36:29 * nsh does his 100% one-way communication with /dev/null
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1975 2014-03-15 22:37:01 <yakman> i think a camera and QR code reader would be easier
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1978 2014-03-15 22:37:56 <yakman> though i guess a raw tx might not fit in one
1979 2014-03-15 22:38:14 <arubi> you can do that too, on those that have a large enough screen
1980 2014-03-15 22:38:44 <yakman> or have many QR codes and append the data together
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1982 2014-03-15 22:39:44 <arubi> any way you can get a signed tx out of the device should be good, as long as it's not over a 2 way channel
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1985 2014-03-15 22:41:09 <arubi> anyway, the only reason I even asked in the first place is because I keep seeing "bitcoin card" services popping up
1986 2014-03-15 22:41:22 <arubi> I don't get it, how can anyone trust this?!
1987 2014-03-15 22:41:29 Guyver2 has quit (Quit: :))
1988 2014-03-15 22:41:51 <arubi> even if you generate your own private key offline, and encrypt it, you're still using thier software to do it...
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1990 2014-03-15 22:42:00 <ThomasZ> I'd suggest something that doesn't have an operating system.  Too many moving parts.  Something fpga based.
1991 2014-03-15 22:42:05 <arubi> their*
1992 2014-03-15 22:42:20 <arubi> something that was never supposed to be online
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1998 2014-03-15 22:46:43 <fnesse> is there any particular reason the operator% was never implemented in uint256? is it simply not necessary in any of the bitcoin classes?
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2011 2014-03-15 23:01:02 <sipa> fnesse: why would it be implemented?
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2013 2014-03-15 23:01:22 <sipa> fnesse: even if it was imemented, but unused, we'd probably delete it
2014 2014-03-15 23:01:28 <fnesse> i was just curious tbh
2015 2014-03-15 23:02:00 <fnesse> it's generally a very useful class, i was going to use it in a school project
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2020 2014-03-15 23:11:48 <wbaw> arubi, you can trust the hardware if you can construct it yourself from commodity parts
2021 2014-03-15 23:12:03 <wbaw> or get somebody you trust to construct it for you
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2023 2014-03-15 23:12:11 <wbaw> if it's an open hardware design
2024 2014-03-15 23:13:03 <wbaw> so, maybe something fpga based, or that uses some common chips
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2029 2014-03-15 23:17:48 <AmThatsMe> Hi ! Can anyone explain why some RPC tests are written in python and are in qa/rpc-test
2030 2014-03-15 23:17:58 <wbaw> maybe a bitcoin wallet smartcard could be made...
2031 2014-03-15 23:18:23 <sipa> AmThatsMe: any good reason not to?
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2034 2014-03-15 23:19:54 <AmThatsMe> sipa: I'm not criticising but rather trying to understand ... bitcoin has its test in src/test using boost
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2036 2014-03-15 23:20:25 <arubi> wbaw, but think about the solutions that exist today, like trezor or bitcoin cards. for bitcoin cards, you actually need to use their own software to generate the key
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2038 2014-03-15 23:20:52 <sipa> AmThatsMe: well rpc tests for one need to be external
2039 2014-03-15 23:21:04 <sipa> as rpc is a mechanism to communicate with an external process
2040 2014-03-15 23:21:17 <sipa> ideally, tests do not share much code with what they are testing
2041 2014-03-15 23:21:18 <wbaw> arubi, you can buy programmable smart cards & programmers
2042 2014-03-15 23:21:29 <sipa> as that risks comparing a bug with a bug
2043 2014-03-15 23:21:47 <wbaw> if somebody made an open source firmware you could write to it, along with your private key
2044 2014-03-15 23:21:51 <sipa> so if you want things to be totally indeoendent, using a different language is a good way to guarantee it
2045 2014-03-15 23:22:21 <sipa> and doing that in python is certainly one the easier language to write some rpc interaction in, given the presence of existing libraries
2046 2014-03-15 23:22:29 <arubi> wbaw, I agree, using a 100% open source solutions is okay, but most products today are not
2047 2014-03-15 23:22:34 <AmThatsMe> sipa: but there are some RPC tests written in cpp ... right ?
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2049 2014-03-15 23:22:41 <arubi> if you're building it yourself, even better
2050 2014-03-15 23:22:45 <sipa> AmThatsMe: i don't think so
2051 2014-03-15 23:22:51 <sipa> AmThatsMe: there are unit tests in cpp
2052 2014-03-15 23:22:53 <CheckDavid> Hello dims
2053 2014-03-15 23:22:58 <sipa> but not interaction tests
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2055 2014-03-15 23:23:30 <CheckDavid> Remember the Python script you gave me yesterday?
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2060 2014-03-15 23:24:53 <AmThatsMe> sipa: the RPC test written in cpp test various RPC calling ... checking that commands that require params get them or throw an exception ..
2061 2014-03-15 23:25:00 <CheckDavid> Oh he is not here
2062 2014-03-15 23:25:10 <sipa> yes
2063 2014-03-15 23:25:25 <sipa> but it's more about sequences of operations
2064 2014-03-15 23:25:33 <sipa> rather than testing the behaviour of a single rpc
2065 2014-03-15 23:25:39 <sipa> but right, bith i guess
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2069 2014-03-15 23:27:04 <AmThatsMe> i guess what i don't understand is why all  rpc testa are written in cpp or in python ... maybe I'm missing something
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2076 2014-03-15 23:30:39 <dims> CheckDavid, y
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2079 2014-03-15 23:32:35 <CheckDavid> dims: oh hey
2080 2014-03-15 23:33:23 <CheckDavid> Just wanted to ask why you import hashlib
2081 2014-03-15 23:33:26 <CheckDavid> Oh no
2082 2014-03-15 23:33:29 <CheckDavid> I mean
2083 2014-03-15 23:33:40 <CheckDavid> unittest
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2103 2014-03-15 23:51:05 <CheckDavid> You there dims ? :)
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2106 2014-03-15 23:53:18 <dims> CheckDavid, it's not needed.  cut-n-paste error
2107 2014-03-15 23:54:00 <CheckDavid> I see. It apparently works :)
2108 2014-03-15 23:54:13 <CheckDavid> Thank you very much dims
2109 2014-03-15 23:54:42 <CheckDavid> I installed the needed libraries and got it running on android
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2111 2014-03-15 23:55:42 <dims> ah nice
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2113 2014-03-15 23:56:46 <CheckDavid> dims: now I was thinking
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2116 2014-03-15 23:58:09 <jcorgan> blocks 91812 and 91842 have a duplicate coinbase transaction and hence txid.  when calling getrawtransaction with the txid, it returns the blockhash of the second block.  Is this (returning 2nd block) defined behavior?
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2120 2014-03-15 23:59:25 <CheckDavid> Do you think I can generate a private key using sha256(key) instead of os.urandom(32)