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22 2014-03-19 00:16:31 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: its not released yet?
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52 2014-03-19 00:40:21 <ripper234> Hello guys,
53 2014-03-19 00:40:34 <ripper234> I need a bitcoind expert for an urgent security matter
54 2014-03-19 00:40:47 <ripper234> bitcoind rpc to be exact
55 2014-03-19 00:41:20 <ripper234> Would appreciate your help ... I'm on Skype with the same nick.
56 2014-03-19 00:41:43 <ripper234> Connecting to this IRC via webchat, so I won't see/hear notifications unless I have the tab open.
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58 2014-03-19 00:43:12 <gmaxwell> The nature of your issue is a bit vague.
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61 2014-03-19 00:44:23 <gmaxwell> If you believe there is a security related software in the bitcoin protocol or a popular implementation please email bitcoin-security@lists.sourceforge.net or if its very serious send gpg encrypted email to the developers of the application in question.
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66 2014-03-19 00:50:57 <amiller> jgarzik, your seed node has been displaying the same 15 ip addresses for basically the last week if not longer
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68 2014-03-19 00:51:18 <amiller> $ host bitseed.xf2.or
69 2014-03-19 00:51:22 <amiller> g
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71 2014-03-19 00:52:51 <gmaxwell> thats what it does, thats also why its last in the list.
72 2014-03-19 00:53:12 <amiller> oh.
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74 2014-03-19 00:53:45 <amiller> okay carry on then. i thought it used to behave differently
75 2014-03-19 00:53:49 <amiller> thanks
76 2014-03-19 00:54:45 <ripper234> Let me clarify:
77 2014-03-19 00:54:50 <ripper234> This is not a problem with Bitcoin at all.
78 2014-03-19 00:55:02 <ripper234> It is a problem with a specific Mastercoin wallet, and the way it uses bitcoind.
79 2014-03-19 00:55:19 <ripper234> We have it figured out, I just need a quick pair of eyes to review a commit.
80 2014-03-19 00:55:23 <Luke-Jr> amiller: that particular seed is a DNS server with a static list
81 2014-03-19 00:55:47 <ripper234> I know Mastercoin isn't popular in some circles.
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83 2014-03-19 00:56:07 <amiller> Luke-Jr, iirc it used to be a DNS server with a much larger static text file it sampled randomly from
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85 2014-03-19 00:56:18 <amiller> Luke-Jr, which is a lot different than showing exactly the same 15 all the time
86 2014-03-19 00:56:52 <ripper234> But we're all crypto-geeks ultimately working for the same goals, and I believe we should help each others.
87 2014-03-19 00:56:57 <ripper234> So I'll stop trolling here.
88 2014-03-19 00:57:32 <ripper234> Just wanted to explain the situation, and politely ask that if someone does have a spare 10 minutes, they contact me (gtalk / email at ron.gross@gmail.com or preferably skype)
89 2014-03-19 00:57:34 <ripper234> Thanks!
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95 2014-03-19 01:00:09 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: http://www.acm.org/news/featured/awards/turing-award-2013
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102 2014-03-19 01:03:55 <Luke-Jr> ripper234: usually we consider non-bitcoin stuff off-topic here even if we are glad to help in other channels/forums
103 2014-03-19 01:04:03 <Luke-Jr> just fwiw
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113 2014-03-19 01:09:12 <melik> hi everyone; can anyone tell me what is wrong with this tx: e411dbebd2f7d64dafeef9b14b5c59ec60c36779d43f850e5e347abee1e1a455
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142 2014-03-19 01:37:40 <jgarzik> amiller, I replied to that days ago; I guess the reply got lost
143 2014-03-19 01:37:45 <jgarzik> amiller, It is a static list
144 2014-03-19 01:38:09 <jgarzik> though it sounds like dnspark finally got dynamic DNS API, so I should revisit that
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146 2014-03-19 01:38:46 * jgarzik is not opposed to dynamic lists -- just did not want to reuse the same seeder code and algorithm as everyone else, and the same single-system setup as everyone else. This is at least DDoS protected.
147 2014-03-19 01:38:56 <jgarzik> Though it is fair to question the value of DDoS-protected stale data ;p
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151 2014-03-19 01:40:07 <amiller> jgarzik, even a static list doesn't have to be only 15 elements i don't think
152 2014-03-19 01:40:15 <amiller> other seeds return more results
153 2014-03-19 01:40:34 <jgarzik> amiller, yes. Trade-offs are unavoidable when using someone else's system
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155 2014-03-19 01:40:46 <amiller> ok :)
156 2014-03-19 01:40:53 <amiller> and sorry for asking again, i def. didn't see hte reply earlier
157 2014-03-19 01:41:06 <jgarzik> amiller, hopefully their dynamic API either (a) permits more entries or at least (b) permits frequent updates
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241 2014-03-19 02:52:54 <miseria> "nada es facil, caemos en cosas que no entendemos, nos golpean, parecen imposibles pero hay que incistir hasta lograr el opjetivo" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
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269 2014-03-19 03:19:42 <Ghaleon_> importprivkey it only takes a private key and adds it to the wallet. but how do you add it to the wallet address? how do you even know what the amount it?
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271 2014-03-19 03:20:53 <Ghaleon_> so we need the amount that was added by importpriv key
272 2014-03-19 03:21:05 <Ghaleon_> is there anyway to get this? from the privacy itself? sips format?
273 2014-03-19 03:21:16 <Luke-Jr> Ghaleon_: you shouldn't be using importprivkey
274 2014-03-19 03:21:44 <Ghaleon_> ok, but how do we allow our wallet users to use arms? the arms give them private keys to scan right?
275 2014-03-19 03:21:57 <Luke-Jr> arms?
276 2014-03-19 03:22:19 <Luke-Jr> uh, if you're importing a private key someone has given you, consider your wallet compromised..
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278 2014-03-19 03:22:26 <Ghaleon_> ATM's
279 2014-03-19 03:22:36 <Luke-Jr> no, they shouldn't be anyhow
280 2014-03-19 03:22:41 <Luke-Jr> any ATM that gives you a private key is broken
281 2014-03-19 03:23:03 <Luke-Jr> you display a payment address to the ATM and it sends you bitcoins..
282 2014-03-19 03:23:47 <Ghaleon_> ahh ok
283 2014-03-19 03:24:17 <Luke-Jr> it's safe to *sweep* a private key, but Bitcoin Core does not support that at all yet
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296 2014-03-19 03:32:46 <etotheipi_> gpg: Signature made Mon 09 Dec 2013 04:14:17 PM EST using RSA key ID 7BF6E212; gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
297 2014-03-19 03:33:08 <etotheipi_> who's public key is that?
298 2014-03-19 03:33:08 <etotheipi_> *whose
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300 2014-03-19 03:33:38 <etotheipi_> that's on the SHA256SUMS.asc file on the bitcoin.org download page
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318 2014-03-19 03:47:57 <pigeons> etotheipi_: gavin's code signing key
319 2014-03-19 03:48:31 <etotheipi_> I have a different key for gavin
320 2014-03-19 03:48:38 <etotheipi_> did he change it?
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322 2014-03-19 03:50:01 <pigeons> dunno, the signatures on 7BF6E212 look good to me
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375 2014-03-19 04:29:35 <etotheipi_> did gavin really make two new 1024-bit PGP keys at the beginning of this year?
376 2014-03-19 04:29:50 <etotheipi_> seems suspicious
377 2014-03-19 04:31:43 wateratosthenes has joined
378 2014-03-19 04:32:29 <fload> Is python-jsonrpc the best way for a beginner to start playing with transactions? I am looking at using it in conjunction with blockchains api...
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422 2014-03-19 05:03:37 richcollins has joined
423 2014-03-19 05:03:59 <richcollins> Is there a Bitcoin script repl that I can use to test scripts?
424 2014-03-19 05:04:25 Keefe has joined
425 2014-03-19 05:05:12 <richcollins> want to check a scriptsig
426 2014-03-19 05:05:18 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
427 2014-03-19 05:06:01 <Luke-Jr> not really
428 2014-03-19 05:06:59 drenllateno is now known as cbit
429 2014-03-19 05:07:09 <richcollins> I'm using bitcoinj -- I suppose there is probably a way to execute a script using it
430 2014-03-19 05:07:35 <richcollins> Luke-Jr: Have you heard of any tools that make it easy to debug a scriptSig?
431 2014-03-19 05:08:07 <richcollins> or a transaction as a whole?
432 2014-03-19 05:08:12 Soligor has quit (Quit: Soligor)
433 2014-03-19 05:08:18 <Luke-Jr> no
434 2014-03-19 05:08:18 <richcollins> Testnet doesn't appear to be relaying my tx
435 2014-03-19 05:08:32 <richcollins> and peers disconnect when I send it so I guess I'm doing something wrong
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467 2014-03-19 05:45:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: it's tagged, though, and for the Ubuntu PPA you don't use the gbuilt release binaries...
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491 2014-03-19 06:21:01 <petertodd> etotheipi_: anyone can make a key...
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504 2014-03-19 06:36:18 <Rawdawg> anyone here interested in doing a bit of security work?
505 2014-03-19 06:36:40 <Rawdawg> just attempting to poke holes in a site then telling me what to do to fix said holes
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508 2014-03-19 06:39:46 <kadoban> Rawdawg: maybe. you paying?
509 2014-03-19 06:40:02 smash has joined
510 2014-03-19 06:40:15 <Rawdawg> depends on how much something like that is worth
511 2014-03-19 06:40:38 askmike has joined
512 2014-03-19 06:40:43 <Rawdawg> if its too much i can wait till tomorrow when my freind that does it for a living comes back online :P
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515 2014-03-19 06:40:59 <Rawdawg> but if you would be interested in doing it for say, 500 digitalcoins?
516 2014-03-19 06:41:08 <Rawdawg> I could swing that
517 2014-03-19 06:41:09 AtashiCon has joined
518 2014-03-19 06:41:32 <kadoban> i have no idea what that is...bitcoins seem more appropriate? i'll take less than 500 ;)
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520 2014-03-19 06:42:03 <Rawdawg> hahaha i would hope so :P
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529 2014-03-19 06:48:51 <venzen> Rawdawg: i'll do it for half of whatever kadoban asks - but then again, my security knowedge is only half as good as his ;)
530 2014-03-19 06:49:05 <Rawdawg> haha
531 2014-03-19 06:49:06 <kadoban> ;)
532 2014-03-19 06:49:07 Krellan_ has joined
533 2014-03-19 06:49:20 <Rawdawg> well i can only afford 500 dgc at this point
534 2014-03-19 06:49:27 <Rawdawg> which is about 0.04 btc
535 2014-03-19 06:49:56 Krellan_ has quit (Client Quit)
536 2014-03-19 06:51:05 <venzen> only joking - i have enough on my plate today...
537 2014-03-19 06:51:22 <Rawdawg> lol its cool
538 2014-03-19 06:51:36 <Rawdawg> i have a freind thats gonna do it
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546 2014-03-19 06:55:35 <disident> Hello small question, how do people to do to fix the first 3 characters of their addresses ?
547 2014-03-19 06:56:03 <paveljanik> disident: google for vanitygen
548 2014-03-19 06:56:09 <maxplm> I'm no dev but I have not found a conclusive answer: with a 2-of-2 P2SH TX, would it be possible to create and store the 2 key pairs on 2 devices, exchange pub keys, create 2-of-2 address and fund it, then craft a TX on 1st device, send half-signed TX to 2nd device, sign and broadcast?
549 2014-03-19 06:56:13 <disident> paveljanik: cheers
550 2014-03-19 06:56:28 <disident> paveljanik: could it be done on the server side ?
551 2014-03-19 06:57:03 <paveljanik> sure
552 2014-03-19 06:57:11 <disident> that won't be to slow ?
553 2014-03-19 06:57:32 <paveljanik> first 3 chars: no.
554 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> opencl:/tmp/1/vanitygen # time ./oclvanitygen 123
555 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> WARNING: Built with OpenSSL 0.9.8j-fips 07 Jan 2009
556 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> WARNING: Use OpenSSL 1.0.0d+ for best performance
557 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> Difficulty: 1353
558 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> Pattern: 123
559 2014-03-19 06:58:21 <paveljanik> Address: 1235SRWiU7hw4UStCxJCDk6hNPW769RKoG
560 2014-03-19 06:58:23 <paveljanik> Privkey: 5JMRyeTPUJd4ERJicmcKTpuyoX6p7qxeATJ4bbhu4azkuYCqmdP
561 2014-03-19 06:58:25 <paveljanik> real 0m0.035s
562 2014-03-19 06:58:27 <paveljanik> user 0m0.036s
563 2014-03-19 06:58:29 <paveljanik> sys 0m0.020s
564 2014-03-19 06:58:31 <paveljanik> opencl:/tmp/1/vanitygen #
565 2014-03-19 06:58:36 Dcousens has joined
566 2014-03-19 06:59:00 <paveljanik> but well, this is better discuss in #bitcoin as this is not related to Bitcoin Core.
567 2014-03-19 06:59:46 <disident> :)
568 2014-03-19 07:00:02 <disident> thank you
569 2014-03-19 07:00:12 <maxplm> to add to my question: in my head it seems as if this would make it possible for securely storing bitcoin, with no device holding all necessary keys at the same time
570 2014-03-19 07:03:31 <Luke-Jr> maxplm: yes
571 2014-03-19 07:03:37 <Luke-Jr> maxplm: that's why P2SH was created
572 2014-03-19 07:03:56 <Luke-Jr> maxplm: now the trick is to remember you can only use an address once.. so you need to throw HD wallets into the loop ;)
573 2014-03-19 07:04:58 <draradech> if(Abs_dummy34 == 0)
574 2014-03-19 07:04:58 <draradech> {
575 2014-03-19 07:04:58 <draradech> gsens_offset_min = 12;
576 2014-03-19 07:04:58 <draradech> }
577 2014-03-19 07:05:09 <draradech> arf, sorry
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579 2014-03-19 07:06:42 <Luke-Jr> unnecessary braces are annoying
580 2014-03-19 07:07:30 <draradech> goto fail?
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588 2014-03-19 07:12:50 <maxplm> Luke-Jr: thank you! yeah of course throw in HD and a 3rd key pair for backup.
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624 2014-03-19 07:54:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|9:02:39 <Luke-Jr> maxplm: that's why P2SH was created
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626 2014-03-19 07:55:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|..actually, that's why checkmultisig was created
627 2014-03-19 07:56:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|P2SH was created to allow software to use addresses to pay to arbitrary scripts without knowing or caring what they are
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765 2014-03-19 10:24:14 <xdotcommer> Would best practice be to check RPC for incoming transactions / confirmations for thousands of wallets or to store blockchain locally and analyze it?
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768 2014-03-19 10:24:58 <xdotcommer> Neither seems very elegant
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790 2014-03-19 10:43:08 <SamsonOnian> https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20spyb/bitcoin_core_version_090_is_ready_featuring_the/
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824 2014-03-19 11:38:55 <topynate> meta: bitcoinstats' parsing is broken. all of michagogo|cloud's messages are read as having 'michago' as the username and 'cloud|' as part of the message
825 2014-03-19 11:40:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|topynate: Yeah, I've noticed that
826 2014-03-19 11:40:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A couple other bots have broken on my |, too :-P
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845 2014-03-19 12:05:01 tiago__ is now known as tiago
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847 2014-03-19 12:06:34 <tiago> michagogo|cloud, hey, I got the make-clean-vm to work but now when I try to compile anything I get "Checking if target is up" for a while and then it crashes with "ssh: connect to host localhost port 2223: Connection refused".
848 2014-03-19 12:07:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: did you export USE_LXC=1?
849 2014-03-19 12:07:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It shouldn't be using SSH
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851 2014-03-19 12:08:08 <tiago> heh, I didn't. thanks
852 2014-03-19 12:08:17 _ImI_ has joined
853 2014-03-19 12:08:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: Didn't it warn you that kvm isn't loaded?
854 2014-03-19 12:08:35 <tiago> nope
855 2014-03-19 12:08:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Interesting
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864 2014-03-19 12:19:37 <tiago> michagogo|cloud, sorry to bother you so much with this, but now... http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=iRvk7U2K
865 2014-03-19 12:20:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|qcow2?
866 2014-03-19 12:20:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|LXC doesn't use qcow2
867 2014-03-19 12:20:32 <tiago> that's what it created
868 2014-03-19 12:20:37 <tiago> make-basevm
869 2014-03-19 12:20:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Can you give me an `ls` of your gitian-builder dir?
870 2014-03-19 12:20:47 <tiago> *make-base-vm
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872 2014-03-19 12:21:19 <lawlll> why is git so popular these days?
873 2014-03-19 12:21:25 <lawlll> what wrong with good old cvs?
874 2014-03-19 12:21:38 <tiago> base-precise-amd64 base-precise-i386 bin COPYING etc libexec README.md share target-precise-i386.qcow2 var
875 2014-03-19 12:21:38 <tiago> base-precise-amd64.qcow2 base-precise-i386.qcow2 build doc inputs LICENSE result target-bin Vagrantfile
876 2014-03-19 12:21:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Here's what happens: make-base-vm creates base-suite-arch.qcow2, which is the KVM machine, and then extracts it for LXC, creating another file called base-suite-arch
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878 2014-03-19 12:22:26 <tiago> yep, it's there
879 2014-03-19 12:22:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: delete target-precise-i386.qcow2
880 2014-03-19 12:22:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|make sure that USE_LXC=1
881 2014-03-19 12:22:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|and then try a gbuild
882 2014-03-19 12:22:47 <tiago> ok
883 2014-03-19 12:25:40 <tiago> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qD5U7PzR
884 2014-03-19 12:26:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, that
885 2014-03-19 12:26:14 iuyiujh has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
886 2014-03-19 12:26:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|See the bottom of gitian-builder's readme
887 2014-03-19 12:26:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I forgot about that because I just put those two commands in whatever the file is that gets run on boot)
888 2014-03-19 12:27:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(/etc/init.d, I think)
889 2014-03-19 12:27:19 ninsei_ has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
890 2014-03-19 12:27:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or maybe rc.local, actually)
891 2014-03-19 12:27:52 <tiago> oh
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894 2014-03-19 12:27:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, I just put `brctl addbr br0` and `ifconfig br0 10.0.2.2/24 up` in rc.local
895 2014-03-19 12:29:15 <xdotcommer> Is best way way to use bitcoind walletnotify/listtransactions to watch 100K+ addresses for incoming transactions and confirmations or to use parse blockchain into db and then use it
896 2014-03-19 12:30:12 <tiago> there we go! thanks michagogo|cloud
897 2014-03-19 12:30:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Great :-)
898 2014-03-19 12:30:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You're welcome.
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918 2014-03-19 12:56:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...so yeah, someone leaked the 0.9.0 downloads on reddit :-(
919 2014-03-19 12:56:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I hope it wasn't my fault... :-/
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921 2014-03-19 12:57:58 <gavinandresen_> nah, it is my fault for uploading the binaries before we had 3 gitian signers.
922 2014-03-19 12:58:20 <gavinandresen_> But we have three now, so all is good.
923 2014-03-19 12:58:29 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: what, the fact that they've been tagged on Git?
924 2014-03-19 12:58:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: No, the binaries
925 2014-03-19 12:59:05 <venzen> tsk tsk, anything to get votes on Reddit, eh?
926 2014-03-19 12:59:32 <hearn> fireworks! parties! 0.9 is out! :)
927 2014-03-19 12:59:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: see logs from 19:45 UTC last night
928 2014-03-19 13:00:04 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: i'll check em :)
929 2014-03-19 13:01:13 <venzen> gavinandresen_: i guess a new release is newsworthy, but isn't this a TAG ?
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931 2014-03-19 13:01:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: Hmm? v0.9.0 was tagged, and then we did builds
932 2014-03-19 13:02:22 <aschildbach_> Question about gitian, is there a script that automatically matches all checksums from the bitcoin-build.assert files and verifies the GPG signatures?
933 2014-03-19 13:02:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: I think so
934 2014-03-19 13:02:40 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|isn't sure where it is, though
935 2014-03-19 13:02:55 <aschildbach_> I think so, too (-:
936 2014-03-19 13:03:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BTW, the Windows setup release binary won't match the gitian sigs
937 2014-03-19 13:03:28 <aschildbach_> why?
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939 2014-03-19 13:03:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because gavinandresen_ codesigns it
940 2014-03-19 13:04:25 <warren> so you can only verify it after it's installed =)
941 2014-03-19 13:04:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So when users run it, it shows up as being published by "The Bitcoin Foundation Inc."
942 2014-03-19 13:04:58 <aschildbach_> I see. Why do I even try to reproduce the Windows build (its in the instructions)?
943 2014-03-19 13:05:09 <gavinandresen_> I think theoretically you could extract the bitcoin-qt.exe from the setup.exe and make sure its checksum matches the gitian-built .exe ...
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945 2014-03-19 13:05:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: Yeah, you can
946 2014-03-19 13:05:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: The only files affected are the installers
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948 2014-03-19 13:05:53 <gavinandresen_> But also, theoretically, the setup.exe could do something malicious and not actually install that .exe
949 2014-03-19 13:05:56 <aschildbach_> Ok, anyway. Where is the check script? gavinandresen_, do you know?
950 2014-03-19 13:06:05 <gavinandresen_> check script?
951 2014-03-19 13:06:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The binaries in the .zip are still verifyable, as are the binaries within the setup.exe
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954 2014-03-19 13:06:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which you could take apart, I believe
955 2014-03-19 13:06:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/blob/master/bin/gverify might be it
956 2014-03-19 13:06:33 <aschildbach_> Yeah. "Question about gitian, is there a script that automatically matches all checksums from the bitcoin-build.assert files and verifies the GPG signatures?"
957 2014-03-19 13:07:06 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: could you guide me trough a gitian setup?
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959 2014-03-19 13:07:14 <gavinandresen_> yes, the gitian gverify. Or there is contrib/verifysvbinaries in our source tree (which needs to be updated since we're moving away from sourceforge)
960 2014-03-19 13:07:17 <jouke> (again)
961 2014-03-19 13:07:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: What's your host system?
962 2014-03-19 13:07:28 <gavinandresen_> err contrib/verifysfbinaries
963 2014-03-19 13:07:37 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: ubuntu
964 2014-03-19 13:07:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is it Ubuntu 64-bit, running on a machine with hardware virtualization?
965 2014-03-19 13:07:59 <tiago> why does gitian require apache?
966 2014-03-19 13:08:51 <jouke> 64bit and yes
967 2014-03-19 13:09:06 wizgot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
968 2014-03-19 13:09:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: Great, so you can build in KVM
969 2014-03-19 13:09:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: make a directory for the while gitian thing
970 2014-03-19 13:09:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In there, you'll want to clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin and https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
971 2014-03-19 13:10:34 <tiago> michagogo|cloud, is there any advantage to kvm over lxc?
972 2014-03-19 13:10:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, if you want to submit gitian signatures for Bitcoin Core, fork https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs and clone your fork in that directory
973 2014-03-19 13:10:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: In general, I've found it tends to work more smoothly
974 2014-03-19 13:11:07 <tiago> I see
975 2014-03-19 13:11:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: Then, follow the readme file in the gitian-builder repo
976 2014-03-19 13:12:09 pbuchan has joined
977 2014-03-19 13:12:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But when you run the two make-base-vm commands, add "--suite precise" to each of them
978 2014-03-19 13:12:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Once gitian is working and the sanity check section of the gitian readme works, follow doc/release-process.md in the bitcoin source tree
979 2014-03-19 13:13:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you have any problems, just ask in here
980 2014-03-19 13:14:29 _ImI_ has joined
981 2014-03-19 13:14:30 spr4wl_org has joined
982 2014-03-19 13:15:50 <aschildbach_> michagogo: what's your keyid?
983 2014-03-19 13:16:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: gverify and the verifysfbinaries do two different things, though
984 2014-03-19 13:16:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: it's in the bitcoin repo
985 2014-03-19 13:16:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In contrib/gitian-downloaded
986 2014-03-19 13:17:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|s/d$/r/
987 2014-03-19 13:17:16 <jouke> do I nead apache?
988 2014-03-19 13:17:33 emowataji has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
989 2014-03-19 13:17:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: I don't actually know exactly why it calls for that in the doc or what it uses it got
990 2014-03-19 13:18:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|For*
991 2014-03-19 13:18:16 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
992 2014-03-19 13:18:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe you need it, maybe not -- if you want you could try leaving it out, and seeing if it works
993 2014-03-19 13:19:05 <aschildbach_> michagogo|cloud: how is it called? I see a few keys there, but not yours.
994 2014-03-19 13:19:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But if it's listed as a requirement, I'd guess it's probably a requirement
995 2014-03-19 13:19:16 ircuser-6 has joined
996 2014-03-19 13:19:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: oh, really?
997 2014-03-19 13:19:34 <gavinandresen_> michagogo|cloud jouke : my memory if fuzzy, but it might be you need apt-cacher + apache + squid to save re-downloading packages again and again when you're using gitian
998 2014-03-19 13:19:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'll take a look
999 2014-03-19 13:19:53 <aschildbach_> I'm looking in the bitcoin.org root directory.
1000 2014-03-19 13:20:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: oh, no, not there
1001 2014-03-19 13:20:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|In the bitcoin git repo
1002 2014-03-19 13:20:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|contrib/gitian-downloader
1003 2014-03-19 13:20:46 JackH has joined
1004 2014-03-19 13:21:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: I know that's what apt-cacher does, but where does Apache come in?
1005 2014-03-19 13:21:05 <aschildbach_> Ah I see. Should I put my key there, too?
1006 2014-03-19 13:21:29 <skinnkavaj> Isn't gavinandresen supposed to announce this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522014 ?
1007 2014-03-19 13:23:17 greenspa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1008 2014-03-19 13:23:30 <wumpus> skinnkavaj: he usually does, although I announced 0.8.6
1009 2014-03-19 13:23:38 <gavinandresen_> skinnkavaj: I'm happy to delegate the announcement to .. whoever ...
1010 2014-03-19 13:23:42 <wumpus> skinnkavaj: in any case it's genuine
1011 2014-03-19 13:24:05 <gavinandresen_> And I'd rather people not blindly trust announcements just because they look like they come from me
1012 2014-03-19 13:24:51 <wumpus> though generally the announcements for releases are in Bitcoin Discussion, not Development
1013 2014-03-19 13:25:18 <gavinandresen_> wumpus: I'm going to post an announcement to bitcoin-development
1014 2014-03-19 13:25:19 maraoz has joined
1015 2014-03-19 13:25:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Has the site been updated yet?
1016 2014-03-19 13:25:49 <wumpus> I'll ask the mods to move it and sticky it
1017 2014-03-19 13:25:52 <gavinandresen_> michagogo|cloud: bitcoin.org ? Not yet, want to submit a pull request?
1018 2014-03-19 13:26:00 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1019 2014-03-19 13:26:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: I will if nobody else has when I get back to my computer
1020 2014-03-19 13:26:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Once that's done, the channel topics should also be updates
1021 2014-03-19 13:26:45 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: is make-base-vm supposed to take a while?
1022 2014-03-19 13:26:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yes
1023 2014-03-19 13:27:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You're installing Ubuntu onto a new VM
1024 2014-03-19 13:27:45 <jouke> maybe I shold have actually read the script :x
1025 2014-03-19 13:28:15 <gavinandresen_> wumpus: Do you think I should upload binaries to sourceforge also, or just put a README there that says "Go to bitcoin.org/bin to get binaries" ?
1026 2014-03-19 13:28:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: personally I'd say the latter, except that rc3 is there
1027 2014-03-19 13:29:03 <wumpus> gavinandresen_: I'm divided on that... on one hand, having the download available on all sourceforge's mirrors increases availability
1028 2014-03-19 13:29:16 <wumpus> gavinandresen_: on the other hand, it'd be nice to stop using sourceforge
1029 2014-03-19 13:29:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And also what wumpus said
1030 2014-03-19 13:29:30 <jgarzik> doh :(
1031 2014-03-19 13:29:33 <wumpus> gavinandresen_: and michagogo|cloud has a good point
1032 2014-03-19 13:29:37 <jgarzik> Missed the window for an OP_RETURN release note :(
1033 2014-03-19 13:29:39 <jouke> ah, looking at the script you need a webserver to host the packages, as it includes a local apt-mirror
1034 2014-03-19 13:29:45 * jgarzik kicks himself
1035 2014-03-19 13:29:52 <wumpus> jgarzik: doh
1036 2014-03-19 13:29:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: ah, that'll do it
1037 2014-03-19 13:30:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, having binaries in multiple places is annoying
1038 2014-03-19 13:30:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, just deprecate SF
1039 2014-03-19 13:31:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does bitcoin.org have mirrors, btw?
1040 2014-03-19 13:31:26 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: nope
1041 2014-03-19 13:31:43 <wumpus> though it's trivial to create one (just clone the github)
1042 2014-03-19 13:31:49 roidster has joined
1043 2014-03-19 13:31:50 <tiago> why isn't github used for the binary hosting, instead of sourceforge?
1044 2014-03-19 13:32:09 <wumpus> tiago: seems sourceforge won't be used for binary hosting anymore
1045 2014-03-19 13:32:10 HeySteve has joined
1046 2014-03-19 13:32:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo| Github hasn't always done binary hosting
1047 2014-03-19 13:32:26 <tiago> I know, but it does now
1048 2014-03-19 13:32:41 <wumpus> now a dedicated server will be used for it
1049 2014-03-19 13:32:59 <venzen> tiago: i don't think Github has the minerals to handle the traffic - and Sourceforge is the traditional repo with the mirrors...
1050 2014-03-19 13:33:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, I guess the decision was made to switch to bitcoin.org before the decision was made to switch to Github Releases
1051 2014-03-19 13:34:24 <venzen> i'm reading the forum announcement at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522014 and it says 0.9 is a RC for a major version... is this correct or is that remnant wording referring to rc3?
1052 2014-03-19 13:34:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Remnant
1053 2014-03-19 13:34:45 <venzen> ok
1054 2014-03-19 13:35:09 <venzen> tx, michagogo|cloud
1055 2014-03-19 13:35:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|No
1056 2014-03-19 13:35:18 <wumpus> where do you see that?
1057 2014-03-19 13:35:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Np*
1058 2014-03-19 13:35:47 <wumpus> ah I see it now
1059 2014-03-19 13:35:55 <wumpus> that was just copy/pasted I suppose :)
1060 2014-03-19 13:36:36 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1061 2014-03-19 13:36:46 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wonders if anyone remembered to take the RC out of doc/r-n.md before the tag
1062 2014-03-19 13:36:57 <wumpus> of course not michagogo|cloud
1063 2014-03-19 13:37:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:-/
1064 2014-03-19 13:37:25 kermit has joined
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1066 2014-03-19 13:37:49 <jgarzik> venzen, That's what happens when someone else takes it upon themselves to post the release announcement without talking to anybody
1067 2014-03-19 13:37:54 <wumpus> from the experience I'm not really convinced that git is a good place to maintain (pre-final) release notes
1068 2014-03-19 13:38:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: yeah, same here
1069 2014-03-19 13:38:32 <wumpus> though I don't know a good alternative either
1070 2014-03-19 13:38:44 askmike has joined
1071 2014-03-19 13:39:04 <wumpus> jgarzik: nah, final was already tagged with that release announcement in it
1072 2014-03-19 13:39:24 paveljanik has joined
1073 2014-03-19 13:39:29 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: RE: OP_RETURN release note: easy to update the README.txt at the download siteâ¦.
1074 2014-03-19 13:40:06 <gavinandresen_> (I'm not OCD enough to care that the README.txt with the downloads doesn't match the tagged README.md)
1075 2014-03-19 13:40:23 <wumpus> documents have much more 'last minute change' potential than code
1076 2014-03-19 13:41:13 <gavinandresen_> mmm. after-the-last-minute changes sometimes, too. Which is fine with me.
1077 2014-03-19 13:41:15 <wumpus> me neither, especially in case of minor, trivial mistakes
1078 2014-03-19 13:41:50 CheckDavid has joined
1079 2014-03-19 13:42:16 <venzen> jgarzik: lucky it's a minor wording issue, but these things can end in tears, so communication and process should be honored, hey? who is user: rme by the way? anyone here? or someone who is sanctioned to make such an announcement?
1080 2014-03-19 13:42:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Idk
1081 2014-03-19 13:43:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But the reddit announcement also came from someone random
1082 2014-03-19 13:43:08 <wumpus> lol, 'sanctioned'
1083 2014-03-19 13:43:09 <jgarzik> venzen, Answering your questions in order: hey! don't know. no. no.
1084 2014-03-19 13:43:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(In fact, a new account...)
1085 2014-03-19 13:43:33 <wumpus> venzen: everyone does what they can to help, I suppose, there is nothing sanctioned or official
1086 2014-03-19 13:43:37 djcoin_ has quit (Quit: djcoin_)
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1089 2014-03-19 13:45:02 <venzen> wumpus: understood... and that's great but communications are critical - a loose tongue can do much harm
1090 2014-03-19 13:45:18 <venzen> anyhoo - no biggie
1091 2014-03-19 13:45:56 <gavinandresen_> https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.9.0/ is just a README.txt And default download for SourceForge is just that README.txt (wouldn't be surprised if that breaks something somewhere, but that's OK)
1092 2014-03-19 13:46:18 <wumpus> venzen: that's always the risk in a distributed project, though it shouldn't be able to do much harm: don't just believe everything you read, and if someone posts a fake release it's signalled and deleted soon enough
1093 2014-03-19 13:46:29 JackH has quit (Quit: JackH)
1094 2014-03-19 13:47:01 <gavinandresen_> venzen: If you'd like to Officially Sanction things, you can be the Official Sanction Official.
1095 2014-03-19 13:47:03 banghouse has joined
1096 2014-03-19 13:47:06 <wumpus> hehe
1097 2014-03-19 13:47:37 * gavinandresen_ has some issues with Authority
1098 2014-03-19 13:48:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen_: did you remove rc3 from sf?
1099 2014-03-19 13:48:45 <gavinandresen_> michagogo|cloud: yes, deleted the test/ directory
1100 2014-03-19 13:48:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Okay, cool
1101 2014-03-19 13:48:58 <venzen> wumpus: true what you say. i think most people are aware that i write articles, so for me it's always about considering whether a piece of information is news - or tattle-tale - or sensation, and it's respect for this workgroup that requires that information going out is sanctioned
1102 2014-03-19 13:49:09 <wumpus> Authority creates centralized risk
1103 2014-03-19 13:49:16 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
1104 2014-03-19 13:49:28 <venzen> wumpus: but sure - controlling information distribution and leaks is impossible
1105 2014-03-19 13:49:44 <venzen> indeed
1106 2014-03-19 13:49:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|On a semirelated note: it's awesome to see so many new gbuilders
1107 2014-03-19 13:49:58 <wumpus> venzen: especially if you're trying to be more open
1108 2014-03-19 13:50:09 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: yes! that's very nice
1109 2014-03-19 13:50:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or at least people getting help with gbuilding... Hopefully they'll all come through
1110 2014-03-19 13:50:54 <Guest62255> I'd be more scared if people posted links to their home made 9.0 bins rather than just bitcoin.org/bin/
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1112 2014-03-19 13:51:45 <gavinandresen_> wumpus: Jinyoung is asking about writing a blog entry for the 0.9 release⦠can I twist your arm and convince you to do that?
1113 2014-03-19 13:52:00 <wumpus> Guest62255: but it shouldn't be the URI that makes it trustworthy, but the fact that it's gitian built thus verified by multiple independent pepole
1114 2014-03-19 13:52:10 <wumpus> gavinandresen_: ah yes I still need to do that
1115 2014-03-19 13:53:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, wumpus: If wumpus doesn't want to do it, I can take that. If wumpus does it, please let me insert a quick note about OP_RETURN.
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1117 2014-03-19 13:56:48 <wumpus> jgarzik: well if I do it I'll mostly write about GUI changes, you're welcome to add something about OP_RETURN of course
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1121 2014-03-19 13:58:17 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: as you mentioned: apt-cacher has its own webserver so I am also interested why the Apache dependecy for gitian?
1122 2014-03-19 13:58:37 <wumpus> apache dependency? I don't think that's necessary
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1124 2014-03-19 13:59:28 <jgarzik> wumpus, tnx
1125 2014-03-19 13:59:41 <gavinandresen_> venzen: devrandom is Mr. Gitian, he might know. Or just leave it out and see if anything breaks....
1126 2014-03-19 13:59:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: I think jouke answered? Read up.
1127 2014-03-19 14:01:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, it'd be cool if gitian could automatically detect and install dependencies the way RVM does
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1130 2014-03-19 14:03:21 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: hmm, gavinandresen_ answered (from memory): you need apt-cacher + apache + squid to save re-downloading packages
1131 2014-03-19 14:03:55 <venzen> nevermind... i'm not dealing with that issue now anyway...
1132 2014-03-19 14:03:58 <wumpus> so apt-cacher requires apache and squid?
1133 2014-03-19 14:04:57 <wumpus> sounds a bit overkill for a local caching store, but heh if it works
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1135 2014-03-19 14:05:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: venzen: read what jouke said
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1139 2014-03-19 14:10:53 <venzen> 20:28 < jouke> ah, looking at the script you need a webserver to host the packages, as it includes a local apt-mirror
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1141 2014-03-19 14:12:29 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: you mean that? I'm still weirded out, because apt-cacher does that with little effort :)
1142 2014-03-19 14:12:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: like I said, idk
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1144 2014-03-19 14:14:05 <venzen> hehe, let's leave it for another day, because i don't want to know at the moment... :)
1145 2014-03-19 14:14:32 <jgarzik> wumpus, will have that OP_RETURN bit written in ~15 min, after current meeting ends
1146 2014-03-19 14:15:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But I don't think squid is used anywhere in gitian, as far as I can tell
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1150 2014-03-19 14:22:38 <gavinandresen_> saivann: I committed bitcoin.org/_releases/2014-03-19-v0.9.0.md --- keeping my fingers crossed I didn't accidently break bitcoin.org ....
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1167 2014-03-19 14:35:22 <sturles> Bitcoin Core is still Bitcoin-Qt on https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet and https://bitcoin.org/en/download
1168 2014-03-19 14:38:37 <gavinandresen_> sturles: "patches welcome" github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/
1169 2014-03-19 14:40:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, wumpus, sipa, gmaxwell: comments, RE OP_RETURN: http://0bin.net/paste/jI07rSW7BrQd9Gpg#f1ntGuNArR6xqTRoxf5kiHrUafx4mWwH8GMXBU16dJw=
1170 2014-03-19 14:40:35 <jgarzik> Generally trying to convey a "do that elsewhere" message.
1171 2014-03-19 14:40:47 <jgarzik> Comments welcome...
1172 2014-03-19 14:40:54 <wumpus> let's see
1173 2014-03-19 14:41:32 <wumpus> agreed
1174 2014-03-19 14:43:18 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: "remains an idea to be discouraged" is awfully passive⦠how about "Storing arbitrary data in the blockchain is still a bad idea; it is less costly and far more efficient to store non-currency data elsewhere."
1175 2014-03-19 14:43:27 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, +1
1176 2014-03-19 14:43:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, what file in git do I edit, adding this note? I am happy to word it more strongly!
1177 2014-03-19 14:43:51 <jgarzik> README.md?
1178 2014-03-19 14:43:59 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: yes, README.md
1179 2014-03-19 14:44:16 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: while you are editing, can you tweak the first paragraph so it doesn't say this is a release candidate ?
1180 2014-03-19 14:44:23 <jgarzik> will do
1181 2014-03-19 14:44:39 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: should just say "This is a new major version that brings both new features and
1182 2014-03-19 14:44:39 <gavinandresen_> bug fixes."
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1190 2014-03-19 14:50:22 <BCB> is there a diff for rc9 and 0.9?
1191 2014-03-19 14:50:34 <wumpus> is the note about rc2 windows binaries not being signed still in there?
1192 2014-03-19 14:50:50 <wumpus> just saw "NOTE: Release candidate 2 Windows binaries are not code-signed" in the forum topic
1193 2014-03-19 14:50:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, hum...
1194 2014-03-19 14:50:59 <wumpus> to be clear, final binaries *are* signed
1195 2014-03-19 14:51:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, are you talking about 0.9.0 branch or master? I only see 0.9.0rc1 string in doc/README.md and then some boring setup instructions.
1196 2014-03-19 14:51:46 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, no first paragraph talking about release candidates?
1197 2014-03-19 14:52:02 <jgarzik> and master seems to have a blank release-notes.md
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1199 2014-03-19 14:52:04 <wumpus> jgarzik: AFAIK he doesn't mean the README.md in the bitcoin repo
1200 2014-03-19 14:52:17 <jgarzik> ah ok, on SF
1201 2014-03-19 14:52:25 <jgarzik> repo needs a fix too
1202 2014-03-19 14:52:28 <wumpus> jgarzik: in git it's in doc/release-notes.md ,but it's too late to change those
1203 2014-03-19 14:52:35 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: start with https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt ....
1204 2014-03-19 14:53:13 <gavinandresen_> Checking that into the 0.9.0 branch as doc/release_notes.md is probably a good idea. Or master/doc/ ⦠uh, wherever we put previous-release-release-notes....
1205 2014-03-19 14:53:14 <wumpus> the bitcoin.org site git
1206 2014-03-19 14:54:00 <wumpus> gavinandresen_: right, the final version of the final release notes for 0.9.0 should be added to master/doc/release-notes/*.md... let's wait until we have all last-minute changes in first :)
1207 2014-03-19 14:54:02 T19EL has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1208 2014-03-19 14:54:27 <wumpus> that's for historical reference
1209 2014-03-19 14:54:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, master:doc/release-notes-0.9.0.md
1210 2014-03-19 14:55:43 T19EL has joined
1211 2014-03-19 14:55:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Are we keeping all the old stuff on SF? Will it be copied/moved over to bitcoin.org/bin, or will that just be for new releases going forward?
1212 2014-03-19 14:56:04 <jgarzik> migrating away from SF
1213 2014-03-19 14:56:09 ryanxcharles has joined
1214 2014-03-19 14:56:14 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: ACK. I can upload to bitcoin.org when they're done; I'm working on documenting everything in the dev team's private repository so any of us can do that in the future.
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1217 2014-03-19 14:56:51 <wumpus> I vote for keeping the old stuff on SF, seems unnecessary to move all the old versions to bitcoin.org as well
1218 2014-03-19 14:56:53 da2ce7_laptop has joined
1219 2014-03-19 14:57:33 <wumpus> woei
1220 2014-03-19 14:57:36 <jgarzik> ok
1221 2014-03-19 14:58:24 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, bitcoin.org.git seems to be already updated in _releases/2014-03-19-v0.9.0.md with "this is a new major version"
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1223 2014-03-19 14:58:42 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, I don't see a bin/0.9.0/README.txt in the git repo
1224 2014-03-19 14:58:54 ninsei has joined
1225 2014-03-19 14:59:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hey, why is choose-your-wallet still using the gold logo for Bitcoin Core? o_O
1226 2014-03-19 14:59:17 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: everything in bin/ is not in the git repo, it is uploaded manually
1227 2014-03-19 14:59:17 ft_ has joined
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1229 2014-03-19 14:59:17 ft_ has joined
1230 2014-03-19 14:59:32 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: (using ssh/scp)
1231 2014-03-19 14:59:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|My downloads folder suggests that was phased out with 0.8.2
1232 2014-03-19 14:59:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, ahhhh! So I need to get my head completely out of git. Sorry.
1233 2014-03-19 15:00:45 drizztbsd has joined
1234 2014-03-19 15:01:01 <drizztbsd> hi, where is bitcoin-qt.desktop in bitcoin 0.9.0?
1235 2014-03-19 15:01:09 sserrano44 has joined
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1237 2014-03-19 15:04:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, wumpus: OK, updated text: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/README.txt
1238 2014-03-19 15:05:02 <wumpus> drizztbsd: should be in the same place as before
1239 2014-03-19 15:05:07 <drizztbsd> no
1240 2014-03-19 15:05:19 <drizztbsd> it was in contrib/debian/bitcoin-qt.desktop
1241 2014-03-19 15:05:28 <wumpus> it's still there
1242 2014-03-19 15:05:37 <drizztbsd> drizzt@liara bitcoin % find /var/lib/archbuild/extra-x86_64/drizzt/build/bitcoin/src/bitcoin-0.9.0-linux/ -name \*.desktop
1243 2014-03-19 15:05:37 <drizztbsd> drizzt@liara bitcoin %
1244 2014-03-19 15:05:38 <gavinandresen_> jgarzik: OP_RETURN is pretty obscure, I think that section should come after "Rebranding to Bitcoin Core"
1245 2014-03-19 15:05:54 <drizztbsd> wumpus: retry, you will be more lucky
1246 2014-03-19 15:06:23 <wumpus> drizztbsd: maybe it doesn't get packaged in the tarball somehow
1247 2014-03-19 15:06:28 <wumpus> drizztbsd: why didn't you notice in the rcs?
1248 2014-03-19 15:06:36 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, disagree -- it's been subject of several articles in the press
1249 2014-03-19 15:06:48 <drizztbsd> wumpus: why is not packaged anymore? :P
1250 2014-03-19 15:06:49 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, well, "OP_RETURN" is obscure, but the data issue isn't
1251 2014-03-19 15:07:05 <wumpus> drizztbsd: no clue
1252 2014-03-19 15:07:13 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
1253 2014-03-19 15:07:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen_, so I really wanted high placement. Feel free to use your own judgement... no objection to further edits.
1254 2014-03-19 15:07:18 sirk390 has joined
1255 2014-03-19 15:07:54 <wumpus> right, the data issue attracts a lot of flak and trolling, it's good to place it near the top
1256 2014-03-19 15:08:36 <drizztbsd> ok, I will package using the git tag for this version
1257 2014-03-19 15:08:59 <wumpus> drizztbsd: I suggest creating a github issue for it, along with other files you're missing in the tarball, if any
1258 2014-03-19 15:09:18 <wumpus> drizztbsd: if you had checked the rcs then it could have been solved for final
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1260 2014-03-19 15:10:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'm looking at the source for the download page on the site
1261 2014-03-19 15:11:12 [Author] has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
1262 2014-03-19 15:11:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Am I reading correctly that the big download button is always the win32 installer regardless of platform?
1263 2014-03-19 15:12:06 sserrano44 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1268 2014-03-19 15:14:39 ninsei has joined
1269 2014-03-19 15:14:59 <venzen> wumpus jgarzik : as per your good advice not to believe everything one reads, is it correct that the tx fee for network relay has been reduced to 0.01 mBTC ?
1270 2014-03-19 15:15:03 dstien_ is now known as dstien
1271 2014-03-19 15:15:38 <jgarzik> venzen, I respectfully decline to think in mBTC
1272 2014-03-19 15:15:54 pablog has joined
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1278 2014-03-19 15:16:07 <venzen> hehe, ok, and the 0.9.0 wallet by default suggests 0.0001 BTC?
1279 2014-03-19 15:16:55 <nezZario> 0.00001
1280 2014-03-19 15:17:04 <nezZario> i think
1281 2014-03-19 15:17:19 <drizztbsd> wumpus: if I fix it do you release a 0.9.1? :P
1282 2014-03-19 15:17:24 gpmnlxdw has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1283 2014-03-19 15:17:34 <devrandom> venzen: not aware of apache dep... where do you see it?
1284 2014-03-19 15:17:35 <wumpus> venzen: wallet has not been changed, but relay fee has been cut by 10
1285 2014-03-19 15:17:56 Guest1744 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1286 2014-03-19 15:18:02 <jgarzik> drizztbsd, there will inevitably be a 0.9.1
1287 2014-03-19 15:18:13 <nezZario> does anyone keep tabs on #tx/sec ?
1288 2014-03-19 15:18:28 <jgarzik> drizztbsd, BTW, standard bug fix policy is upstream-first (master first), unless the fix only applies to 0.9.0 and not to master
1289 2014-03-19 15:18:39 <wumpus> drizztbsd: sure :p no problem including build system changes in stable releases
1290 2014-03-19 15:19:02 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1291 2014-03-19 15:19:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Looking at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/edit/master/_templates/download.html, am I reading correctly that the big download button is always the win32 installer regardless of platform?
1292 2014-03-19 15:20:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, nvm -- I see the script at the bottom now
1293 2014-03-19 15:22:12 beachandbytes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1294 2014-03-19 15:22:17 <wumpus> it probably defaults to windows, as most big-green-button-clickers are bound to be windows users :)
1295 2014-03-19 15:22:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I unfortunately don't know web coding (HTML nor Javascript)... the download page needs to be updated to reflect the fact that we do win32 and win64 builds now
1296 2014-03-19 15:23:18 sserrano44 has joined
1297 2014-03-19 15:24:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: It technically defaults to Windows, but there's a block of javascript at the bottom that looks for Mac and Linux in the useragent and switches the button to either the Mac DMG or... uh... the Ubuntu PPA?
1298 2014-03-19 15:24:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|o_O
1299 2014-03-19 15:25:33 ninsei has quit (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
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1301 2014-03-19 15:26:24 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1302 2014-03-19 15:27:24 <wumpus> hmm for windows it would be good if it suggested the 64-bit version by default and offer the 32-bit one as fallback, at least if it's not possible to determine 32/64 from the user agent, I have no clue :)
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1305 2014-03-19 15:28:20 <drizztbsd> it should be possibile on major browsers
1306 2014-03-19 15:28:50 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1307 2014-03-19 15:28:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|My useragent string is Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/33.0.1750.154 Safari/537.36
1308 2014-03-19 15:28:59 jrmithdobbs has joined
1309 2014-03-19 15:29:04 <drizztbsd> "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:25.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/25.0" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Safari/537.36"
1310 2014-03-19 15:29:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|WOW64 is the 64-bit identifier
1311 2014-03-19 15:29:19 <drizztbsd> x64
1312 2014-03-19 15:29:28 <drizztbsd> for some windows/browsers
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1314 2014-03-19 15:29:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'd check for either Win64 or WOW64
1315 2014-03-19 15:30:00 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: I think WOW64 is the 32-bit-on-64-bit identifier
1316 2014-03-19 15:30:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Yeah, I think you're right
1317 2014-03-19 15:30:22 <drizztbsd> WOW!
1318 2014-03-19 15:30:29 <Luke-Jr> drizztbsd: Windows-on-Windows
1319 2014-03-19 15:30:34 <Luke-Jr> it's the MS WINE
1320 2014-03-19 15:30:43 <drizztbsd> like crap-on-crap
1321 2014-03-19 15:31:10 Keefe has joined
1322 2014-03-19 15:31:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think Chrome is only available as 32-bit for Windows atm
1323 2014-03-19 15:31:42 <drizztbsd> maybe firefox too
1324 2014-03-19 15:32:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But yeah, I think what should be done is to add the Windows 64-bit download to the page, change the javascript to detect it
1325 2014-03-19 15:32:09 smash has joined
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1327 2014-03-19 15:32:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And also maybe add text to the big download button indicating what it will download...
1328 2014-03-19 15:32:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to be able to do it, or I'd make the changes and PR
1329 2014-03-19 15:33:05 ft_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1330 2014-03-19 15:33:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(also, do we want to stick with the Windows 7 logo, or upgrade to the Windows 8 logo?
1331 2014-03-19 15:33:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|)
1332 2014-03-19 15:33:56 <drizztbsd> windows (9)8 logo!
1333 2014-03-19 15:33:59 jordandotdev has joined
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1335 2014-03-19 15:34:28 <wumpus> bitcoin for workgroups
1336 2014-03-19 15:34:42 <drizztbsd> 16 bit bitcoin release :)
1337 2014-03-19 15:35:04 antephialtic has joined
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1343 2014-03-19 15:40:20 <drizztbsd> should we keed berkeley db for a long time? :)
1344 2014-03-19 15:40:22 <drizztbsd> keep*
1345 2014-03-19 15:41:42 blumenkraft has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1346 2014-03-19 15:42:23 <wumpus> if so I do suggest that you keep it under low temparature to avoid bitrot
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1350 2014-03-19 15:45:06 <venzen> wumpus: bitrot sounds awful - sure hope neither i nor my hardware ever contract that..
1351 2014-03-19 15:49:44 HANTI is now known as hanti
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1353 2014-03-19 15:51:11 ninsei has joined
1354 2014-03-19 15:52:00 <topynate> i prefer 1E-5 BTC - saves counting the zeros
1355 2014-03-19 15:53:08 Lexa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1356 2014-03-19 15:53:19 gavinandresen_ has quit (Quit: gavinandresen_)
1357 2014-03-19 15:53:29 <wumpus> counting zeros (before the decimal) is a solved problem by grouping numbers per three in localized number formatting
1358 2014-03-19 15:54:33 antephialtic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1359 2014-03-19 15:54:40 <jgarzik> wumpus, RE blog post, I'm writing up a very terse list of "what's new" that might be helpful to you. Finished in ~15 in
1360 2014-03-19 15:54:42 <jgarzik> *min
1361 2014-03-19 15:55:11 cz has joined
1362 2014-03-19 15:56:38 <wumpus> ok, I'm a lot slower in that
1363 2014-03-19 15:56:41 Lexa has joined
1364 2014-03-19 15:56:43 <venzen> jgarzik: do you mind if i look at that for public dissemination? I've been using the forum notes and they're not accurate in every instance.
1365 2014-03-19 15:56:53 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1367 2014-03-19 15:57:03 <venzen> when you're done of course
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1370 2014-03-19 15:58:55 <wumpus> jgarzik: it's also fine if you write the generale release blog article, I'm working on a blog post that highlights a few GUI changes (payment requests, rebranding to bitcoin core, new receive workflow, coin control), but this is the first time I'm fighting with Wordpress etc so I'm not sure when it will be finished
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1373 2014-03-19 16:00:21 <jgarzik> wumpus, I'd be happy to. These notes will help.
1374 2014-03-19 16:02:18 <venzen> correction: the Bitcointalk forum thread we looked at before copied the new features from https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt, so they are correct
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1397 2014-03-19 16:20:30 <venzen> however, the document https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt still refers to 0.9.0 as an RC in line 5
1398 2014-03-19 16:20:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, wumpus, sipa, gmaxwell: This is intended as a "highlights of the release" list, not an exhaustive list, to be used as notes when talking with reporters: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/soundbites.txt
1399 2014-03-19 16:20:42 <jgarzik> venzen, ^
1400 2014-03-19 16:20:49 <jgarzik> venzen, Yes, that doc will get fixed in an hour or so.
1401 2014-03-19 16:21:13 <venzen> jgarzik: thanks for the link, i'm checking
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1407 2014-03-19 16:24:24 <jcorgan> jgarzik: very minor nit, might say "decrease minimum relay fee" instead of "drop minimum relay fee"
1408 2014-03-19 16:25:09 bbrian has joined
1409 2014-03-19 16:25:33 <jgarzik> jcorgan, it's notes to myself. I know what I'm talking about ;p
1410 2014-03-19 16:25:36 <jgarzik> I hope!
1411 2014-03-19 16:25:44 <Imbue> hello; i have found what appears to be an inconsistency in the comments in serialize.h
1412 2014-03-19 16:25:46 Subo1977 has joined
1413 2014-03-19 16:26:48 <Imbue> i think it's a typo but my brain is asleep right now
1414 2014-03-19 16:27:00 <Imbue> Very small ... 16512-2113663: 3 bytes
1415 2014-03-19 16:27:04 <Imbue> 16511: [0x80 0xFF 0x7F]
1416 2014-03-19 16:27:27 <Imbue> this seems incompatible
1417 2014-03-19 16:27:32 <sipa> ha!
1418 2014-03-19 16:27:50 <Imbue> i am trying to use these values to unit test and.. lol.
1419 2014-03-19 16:28:55 <sipa> please do!
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1426 2014-03-19 16:32:06 <Imbue> i believe the code itself is fine, simply that these 'commented values' are bunk
1427 2014-03-19 16:32:20 <Imbue> my cpp knowledge is lacking
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1430 2014-03-19 16:39:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, I certainly hope the code itself is fine!
1431 2014-03-19 16:39:24 <Imbue> indeed!
1432 2014-03-19 16:40:17 <Luke-Jr> at least one known security regression
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1434 2014-03-19 16:41:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke, tiago: how's the gitian thing coming along?
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1452 2014-03-19 16:58:31 <olalonde> is there an RPC command to know how many bitcoin an address "controls" at a given date/block height?
1453 2014-03-19 16:59:47 <flammit> short answer: no.
1454 2014-03-19 17:00:23 uiop has joined
1455 2014-03-19 17:01:53 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: addresses don't control bitcoins, ECDSA keypairs and wallets do :P
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1460 2014-03-19 17:06:08 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: godâ¦
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1464 2014-03-19 17:06:15 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: you will never give up :P
1465 2014-03-19 17:06:46 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: nope, so stop trying to do stupid things? :P
1466 2014-03-19 17:07:59 <olalonde> you are welcome to suggest alternatives https://github.com/olalonde/bitcoin-asset-proof/issues :)
1467 2014-03-19 17:08:39 melik has joined
1468 2014-03-19 17:09:17 <Luke-Jr> what kind of commit message is "uhh" ? :P
1469 2014-03-19 17:09:19 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: had to go away for a bit, but it is unable to download the packages from the mirror
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1471 2014-03-19 17:09:53 <Luke-Jr> "The assets proof is done by signing an identifier with all private keys in a Bitcoin wallet." <-- that's a TON of private keys! :O
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1474 2014-03-19 17:10:51 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: yes⦠although some exchanges re-use same keys for cold storage⦠the objective would be to support HD wallets so only one signature is required
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1476 2014-03-19 17:11:07 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: signmessage only proves you *receive* on an address, not that you own or control funds for the pubkey which the address is created from
1477 2014-03-19 17:11:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: ,,(google --lucky xkcd commit messages)
1478 2014-03-19 17:11:19 <gribble> http://xkcd.com/1296/
1479 2014-03-19 17:11:34 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: but the host is running some other webservices as well.
1480 2014-03-19 17:11:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: What system is the host on?
1481 2014-03-19 17:11:52 Coincidental has joined
1482 2014-03-19 17:11:59 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: you need to be using ECDSA keys (or HD seeds) and some custom signature format here..
1483 2014-03-19 17:12:01 <jouke> ubuntu
1484 2014-03-19 17:12:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: which version?
1485 2014-03-19 17:12:16 <jouke> euh
1486 2014-03-19 17:12:25 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: actually, s/ECDSA keys/scriptSigs/; not all assets might be held by a ECDSA signature!
1487 2014-03-19 17:12:25 <jouke> 13.10 I guess
1488 2014-03-19 17:12:42 <hearn> i think we may need an entry in the FAQ about reimplementing bitcoin core
1489 2014-03-19 17:12:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, someone (tiago, I think) was also having trouble with saucy
1490 2014-03-19 17:12:53 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: likewise, you need some way to specify multisig combinations of many HD seeds; good practice would have it that a cold storage is such a combination
1491 2014-03-19 17:13:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: Do you have a machine running an older version you could use?
1492 2014-03-19 17:13:17 <hearn> there are too many people who just don't understand how dangerous it is. there aren't many comparable situations so it's tempting to just ignore the warnings or write them off as ramblings of idiots
1493 2014-03-19 17:13:18 <Luke-Jr> hearn: "do it but expect it to break randomly"? :P
1494 2014-03-19 17:13:28 <hearn> well if miners do it, then it could break the entire network
1495 2014-03-19 17:13:30 <hearn> a la bip 50
1496 2014-03-19 17:13:45 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: I removed the mirrors in make base vm for now, see how that works out
1497 2014-03-19 17:13:51 <Luke-Jr> hearn: that should be more of a warning about *using* them IMO
1498 2014-03-19 17:13:52 vegard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1499 2014-03-19 17:14:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: Okay, good luck
1500 2014-03-19 17:14:16 <hearn> bitcoinj already has a "do it but expect it to break randomly" warning on it, and i'm still getting people turning up saying "gee running a full node for mining kinda sucks. how about we mine partially validated blocks using bcj instead"
1501 2014-03-19 17:14:24 <Luke-Jr> hearn: I suppose you missed the idiot miner who was just building empty blocks on top of prevblocks he didn't have (but saw via a stratum connection)? :P
1502 2014-03-19 17:14:34 <hearn> lolwat
1503 2014-03-19 17:14:39 <hearn> yes I did miss that
1504 2014-03-19 17:14:42 <hearn> where was this
1505 2014-03-19 17:14:55 <Luke-Jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3658
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1509 2014-03-19 17:16:05 <hearn> "I lost $20k due to this."
1510 2014-03-19 17:16:12 <hearn> ye gods
1511 2014-03-19 17:16:21 <hearn> i hope we can put something into the new developer guide about this stuff
1512 2014-03-19 17:16:26 <hearn> apparently the message isn't getting through to people
1513 2014-03-19 17:16:50 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: for now, the focus is on standard transactions only. eventually non standard scripts will need to be taken in considerations
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1521 2014-03-19 17:18:01 <hearn> Luke-Jr: huh
1522 2014-03-19 17:18:13 <hearn> Luke-Jr: does the timing of that bug line up with when Discus Fish started to build real blocks?
1523 2014-03-19 17:18:20 <hearn> they used to build very tiny or empty blocks, iirc
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1529 2014-03-19 17:22:55 <Luke-Jr> hearn: dunno âº
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1532 2014-03-19 17:23:34 <olalonde> "Luke-Jr: olalonde: signmessage only proves you receive on an address, not that you own or control funds for the pubkey which the address is created from" it does for pay-to-pubkey-hash scripts no? (assuming you own the private key)
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1535 2014-03-19 17:27:39 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: you cannot assume a signer controls the private key
1536 2014-03-19 17:27:48 <sipa> Luke-Jr: eh, yes
1537 2014-03-19 17:28:02 <sipa> signing = zero-knowledge proof that you have access to the private key
1538 2014-03-19 17:28:18 <sipa> it does however not mena you own the funds spendable by it
1539 2014-03-19 17:28:53 <sipa> *mean
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1553 2014-03-19 17:43:57 <gmaxwell> hearn: I'm not sure what the guide can really say that, I'm doubtful that anyone doing that (blinding mining on other people's blocks) was under the slightest impression that doing that wasn't harmful to the network.
1554 2014-03-19 17:44:26 <hearn> hard to say. i've seen some people get fairly confused about it.
1555 2014-03-19 17:46:19 <drizztbsd> https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/bitcoin-qt/ :P
1556 2014-03-19 17:46:32 <jgarzik> wumpus, what is the new preferred name for the GUI? Bitcoin Core Wallet?
1557 2014-03-19 17:47:07 <sipa> Bitcoin Core Wallet Qt GUI Enterprise Edition for Workgroups
1558 2014-03-19 17:47:12 <gaf> hey, anyone can give me a hand installing vanitygen on a mac?
1559 2014-03-19 17:47:24 <olalonde> by this logic, there's really no way of proving you own a private key other then publishing it. i think signing is good enough for now
1560 2014-03-19 17:47:31 owowo has joined
1561 2014-03-19 17:48:20 <gaf> i'm following this tut, but i can't get openssl 1.0.1 to be active... http://www.stanley-adams.co.uk/2013/12/custom-vanity-bitcoin-address/
1562 2014-03-19 17:48:50 <Emcy> oo you updated leveldb
1563 2014-03-19 17:48:52 <sipa> olalonde: signing or revealing a private key proves you control it
1564 2014-03-19 17:49:01 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1565 2014-03-19 17:49:05 <sipa> olalonde: and proves you control the funds spendable by it
1566 2014-03-19 17:49:14 <sipa> olalonde: ownership is just a higher-level human concept
1567 2014-03-19 17:49:16 <olalonde> sipa: well, I think Luke-Jr's point was that you could ask someone to sign a message for you
1568 2014-03-19 17:50:06 <sipa> right, of course
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1570 2014-03-19 17:50:32 <gmaxwell> hearn: I've had some expirence talking with folks who simply don't know, but I've found some of them pretty impervious to reason. Eg. I've talked to several 'business people', including one who'd recently purchased about $5m in hardware for mining, whos business plan basically amounted to "obtain xx% of bitcoin hashrate" where xx was numbers like 40%. (in fact the sum of people who've told me of such plans is >>100%)
1571 2014-03-19 17:51:00 <olalonde> but there's no way of preventing that really⦠eventually I could write a crawler that retrieves asset proofs and check if the same keys were used twice for signing , etc. but I think for now it's good enough
1572 2014-03-19 17:51:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Wait, what? Of course signing proves you have access to a private key
1573 2014-03-19 17:51:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It doesn't prove that any less than it proves that you receive to that address
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1575 2014-03-19 17:51:56 <hearn> ....
1576 2014-03-19 17:52:03 <hearn> oh well. ok, meetup time. bbl
1577 2014-03-19 17:52:04 hearn has quit (Quit: hearn)
1578 2014-03-19 17:52:07 <Imbue> pedantry over 'access to private key' vs 'ownership of funds'.
1579 2014-03-19 17:52:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: I believe it's Bitcoin Core GUI
1580 2014-03-19 17:53:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(maybe just Bitcoin Core in some cases, but BCGUI when you need to distinguish it from Bitcoin Core Daemon)
1581 2014-03-19 17:53:36 <gmaxwell> Imbue: well it's a subtle difference to be mindful of for cases where it applies... no need to obsess too much about it though.
1582 2014-03-19 17:53:38 * jgarzik calls it Bitcoin Core Wallet just to confuse people. This is for Average Folks, not technical geeks who know terms like GUI or Qt.
1583 2014-03-19 17:54:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Well, the Description field of bitcoin-qt.exe is Bitcoin Core (OSS GUI client for Bitcoin)
1584 2014-03-19 17:54:19 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, hahaha (RE sum of people >>100%)
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1586 2014-03-19 17:54:50 <Imbue> gmaxwell: right; in this case it seems reasonably clear that it is about as equivalent as you can get, though. otherwise you reach the nonsense conclusion that my coins are not mine because they are tainted to 'mtgox stolen' or whatever.
1587 2014-03-19 17:54:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And the Product Name field is just Bitcoin Core
1588 2014-03-19 17:55:01 <Imbue> i.e. along the chain ownership was broken.
1589 2014-03-19 17:55:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The thing is, as it is today, signing a message doesn't prove you have the privkey
1590 2014-03-19 17:55:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It proves whoever has the privkey is willing to sign that message for you
1591 2014-03-19 17:55:39 <gmaxwell> Imbue: how could mtgox have stolen them? mtgox could sign for them, therefor they had ownership. QED. :P
1592 2014-03-19 17:55:52 <Imbue> yeah; exactly
1593 2014-03-19 17:55:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hence the wording of 19:50:46 <michagogo|cloud> It doesn't prove that any less than it proves that you receive to that address
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1596 2014-03-19 17:56:04 <Imbue> basically, proof of reserve is not proof of ownership... lol
1597 2014-03-19 17:56:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because it *doesn't* prove you receive to that address either
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1599 2014-03-19 17:57:05 <gmaxwell> Right in the future things like some things solvency proofs could be made more powerful by tying up the coins in ring signature contracts, so that they can only be sent with the authorization of some user included in the other half of the proof. ... assuming there really did arise problems with people helping other forge solvency proofs.
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1602 2014-03-19 17:58:49 <gaf> is there another paper wallet generator other than vanitygen around? that makes wallets for all types of cryptos?
1603 2014-03-19 17:59:06 <gaf> no, i'm looking for the javascript one
1604 2014-03-19 17:59:12 <gaf> not*
1605 2014-03-19 17:59:44 <Luke-Jr> sipa: signmessage does not prove control of the private key behind an address, since users are expected to have access to it for any address they receive with
1606 2014-03-19 17:59:52 <gmaxwell> gaf: This isn't the right channel for those sorts of questions, (and you probably just made half of us cringe with "cryptos")
1607 2014-03-19 18:00:21 <gaf> which would be the correct channel?
1608 2014-03-19 18:00:22 <DoctorBTC> gaf, google 'universal paper wallet generator'
1609 2014-03-19 18:00:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: "Expected"? I disagree
1610 2014-03-19 18:00:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: some shared wallets like coinbase (and formerly mtgox) let users signmessage with keys the user doesn't really control.
1611 2014-03-19 18:00:44 <Luke-Jr> people (rightfully) can signmessage with any address they receive with a webwallet that uses a shared coin pool
1612 2014-03-19 18:00:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|With *some* webwallets
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1614 2014-03-19 18:01:10 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: with all webwallets that implement the standard, as they should be expected to
1615 2014-03-19 18:01:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The assumption cannot be made that a user can always sign a message with the key corresponding to any address they receive at
1616 2014-03-19 18:01:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Which standard?
1617 2014-03-19 18:02:01 cysm has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1618 2014-03-19 18:02:02 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: the signmessage standard
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1621 2014-03-19 18:02:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A webwallet could say "here's the one address that we'll sign messages for at your request"
1622 2014-03-19 18:02:43 <sipa> heh, such things probably require a BIP
1623 2014-03-19 18:02:52 <sipa> to stipulate exactly what a signed message implies
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1627 2014-03-19 18:03:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|AFAIK the signmessage "standard" (if there even is one besides how Bitcoin Core implements it) doesn't specify rules for webwallets making it available to users
1628 2014-03-19 18:03:50 <gaf> DoctorBTC, i found something...but that website doesn't have a github repo :(. i think is not trustable to just use it like that
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1634 2014-03-19 18:05:02 <gmaxwell> hm. did the recent wallet changes result in not showing orphans?
1635 2014-03-19 18:05:15 <gmaxwell> my wallet isn't showing any orphans at all anymore and it should have a couple.
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1640 2014-03-19 18:06:07 <Luke-Jr> to prove control of funds, you need to sign for all the scriptPubKeys, not addresses
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1644 2014-03-19 18:06:25 <Luke-Jr> so, you need some format which uses a scriptSig, not a mere ECDSA signature
1645 2014-03-19 18:06:55 <gaf> DoctorBTC, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386670.0
1646 2014-03-19 18:07:36 <Luke-Jr> so basically, half a transaction but without outputs (and not confusable with a real transaction)
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1648 2014-03-19 18:07:40 <gmaxwell> I do kinda wish sometime that signmessage was just a seralized transaction with the nlocktime maximally far in the future and a hash in a single txout.
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1651 2014-03-19 18:08:15 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that sounds perfect for a "proof of control of funds" and/or "proof of sending a transaction"
1652 2014-03-19 18:08:21 <Luke-Jr> although the latter needs some thought for CoinJoin
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1657 2014-03-19 18:09:42 <gmaxwell> it also lets you signmessage with multisig and p2sh.
1658 2014-03-19 18:09:55 <Luke-Jr> hm
1659 2014-03-19 18:10:53 <Luke-Jr> so maybe if someone has free time, they can draft a BIP message signing system to do all 3 cases: receipt on address, control of funds, and proof of spending
1660 2014-03-19 18:11:03 aegis has joined
1661 2014-03-19 18:11:24 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: can you think of any way for proof-of-spending with CoinJoin? :/
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1663 2014-03-19 18:11:54 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for there.
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1666 2014-03-19 18:15:47 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: if I send a transaction with coinjoin, some way to prove I sent it ;)
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1670 2014-03-19 18:18:41 <kjj> couldn't you just not use coinjoin?
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1674 2014-03-19 18:19:50 <Imbue> hmm
1675 2014-03-19 18:19:57 <Imbue> i can think of ridiculously inefficient ways
1676 2014-03-19 18:20:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|20:10:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: can you think of any way for proof-of-spending with CoinJoin? :/ <-- I don't see how this would be possible, considering that the point of coinjoin is pretty much to hide the link between inputs and outputs
1677 2014-03-19 18:20:14 <Imbue> for example if all participants sign a message that says 'luke jr sent a payment'
1678 2014-03-19 18:20:27 <Imbue> no knowledge of which input pubkey is yours
1679 2014-03-19 18:20:42 <gmaxwell> nah, it's perfectly possible. But meh. I mean you can do it weakly just by showing you provided sufficient input but its non-excluding.
1680 2014-03-19 18:20:43 <bitblender> ;;tslb
1681 2014-03-19 18:20:46 <gribble> Time since last block: 27 minutes and 42 seconds
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1683 2014-03-19 18:21:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: did your tweaks to make-base-vm fix the problem?
1684 2014-03-19 18:22:04 <gmaxwell> I have a way to do it that doesn't add overhead.
1685 2014-03-19 18:22:11 <gmaxwell> but it's kinda lame.
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1687 2014-03-19 18:22:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: How's that?
1688 2014-03-19 18:23:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(and why is it lame?)
1689 2014-03-19 18:23:09 disident has quit (Quit: disident)
1690 2014-03-19 18:23:28 <gmaxwell> I mean, I have many ways, I have one that is indistinguishable and adds no overhead, but only works for ecdsa thus is lame.
1691 2014-03-19 18:23:57 venzen has joined
1692 2014-03-19 18:24:42 <gmaxwell> and also requires revaling your private key.
1693 2014-03-19 18:25:11 softwaremechanic has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1694 2014-03-19 18:25:30 has quit (Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1696 2014-03-19 18:25:49 <gmaxwell> Make a list of which output destinations will be yours. Use the result as your ecdsa nonce. You can later reveal the list and the list nonce and show it was commited in your signature. ... the way with overhead is to just explicitly include such a commitment in the transaction.
1697 2014-03-19 18:26:59 Wild0wnes has quit ()
1698 2014-03-19 18:28:44 <Luke-Jr> hm
1699 2014-03-19 18:28:56 drayah has joined
1700 2014-03-19 18:29:28 <kjj> this is bitcoin. I thought the lesson was learned years ago that if your scheme requires more than a yes/no decision on "have sufficient funds made it to address X?", your scheme is doomed
1701 2014-03-19 18:29:29 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: atm I am at home, please remind me tomorrow :)
1702 2014-03-19 18:29:56 <wumpus> "Someone should perhaps make note of a security regression in 0.9.0: IP addresses of your peers are now logged, making your debug.log file valuable to crackers and/or governments." ... sigh, really?
1703 2014-03-19 18:29:57 <gmaxwell> kjj: yea probably.
1704 2014-03-19 18:29:58 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: is there a way to perhaps use an OP_RETURN output with a hash that gives all participants a pre-committed token for specific outputs that are theirs?
1705 2014-03-19 18:30:08 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: really.
1706 2014-03-19 18:30:18 <gmaxwell> wumpus: huh? I don't think we changed behavior there at all.
1707 2014-03-19 18:30:20 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: that should have been fixed before any release
1708 2014-03-19 18:30:35 disident has joined
1709 2014-03-19 18:30:38 <gmaxwell> We've long logged the connect messages.
1710 2014-03-19 18:30:41 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not with IPs
1711 2014-03-19 18:30:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: will you be talking before then? :-P
1712 2014-03-19 18:30:45 raid5 has joined
1713 2014-03-19 18:30:48 <gmaxwell> yes, with IPs.
1714 2014-03-19 18:30:49 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: we've long intentionally AVOIDED logging IPs
1715 2014-03-19 18:30:51 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: only if you supply -debug=all
1716 2014-03-19 18:31:04 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: WITHOUT debug flags, no extra IPs are being logged compared to 0.8.6
1717 2014-03-19 18:31:05 <gmaxwell> the US/THEM fields, when logging the connect messages.
1718 2014-03-19 18:31:11 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: what do you mean?
1719 2014-03-19 18:31:14 happyface_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1720 2014-03-19 18:31:20 <Imbue> debug.log has mentioned that in 0.8.6
1721 2014-03-19 18:31:23 <gmaxwell> wumpus: with debug what extra are we logging compared to 0.8.6?
1722 2014-03-19 18:31:38 <wumpus> and if you want debug flags, you want that stuff in your log generally, at least I do
1723 2014-03-19 18:31:38 <Imbue> (without flags)
1724 2014-03-19 18:31:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: Well, can I use ,,(help later tell) to remind you? Or will you be talking in the presence of gribble before then?
1725 2014-03-19 18:31:39 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
1726 2014-03-19 18:31:48 <wumpus> gmaxwell: with flags you can get IPs for mempool transactions
1727 2014-03-19 18:32:01 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: oh, really? I missed that somehow :o
1728 2014-03-19 18:32:29 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: heh, yeah, probably I will :P I'll set a reminder myself as well :)
1729 2014-03-19 18:32:38 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I don't see a debug conditional..
1730 2014-03-19 18:32:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Okay, I'll set some other reminder
1731 2014-03-19 18:32:47 unyo has joined
1732 2014-03-19 18:32:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;list later
1733 2014-03-19 18:32:50 <gribble> notes, remove, and tell
1734 2014-03-19 18:32:54 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: they're all LogPrintf("category", "...)
1735 2014-03-19 18:32:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;help later notes
1736 2014-03-19 18:32:56 <gribble> (later notes [<nick>]) -- If <nick> is given, replies with what notes are waiting on <nick>, otherwise, replies with the nicks that have notes waiting for them.
1737 2014-03-19 18:33:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later notes
1738 2014-03-19 18:33:04 <gribble> I currently have notes waiting for Alpha1311, Alright, atweiden, b1z, babbler, BigBitz, BlueMatt, btclovernick, But, decimation, dnathe4th, freenode, fruitFly, It, kryo, liamwli, lollaskates, LucyDrop, njcarlos, nubbins`omfg, papouxxl, rg, Rinzlite, say, sgornick, TestingUnoDosTre, theymos, truffles, weeboo, and xtw317.
1739 2014-03-19 18:33:11 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: the conditional is implied
1740 2014-03-19 18:33:13 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: LogPrintf is only in debug?
1741 2014-03-19 18:33:19 <Luke-Jr> also, this one lacks a category O.o
1742 2014-03-19 18:33:22 <wumpus> LogPrint without f
1743 2014-03-19 18:33:34 <wumpus> the one with category is always logged
1744 2014-03-19 18:33:38 <wumpus> without category*
1745 2014-03-19 18:33:52 <gmaxwell> in any case, I am not getting any mempool transaction IPs in my debugging enabled logs here.
1746 2014-03-19 18:33:57 <Luke-Jr> ⦠very confusing. I still have no idea how it's supposed to behave now.
1747 2014-03-19 18:34:07 rlifchitz has joined
1748 2014-03-19 18:34:15 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: that's fine, but please try to understand it before shouting things on the forum :/
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1751 2014-03-19 18:35:31 <wumpus> gmaxwell: this one for example: main.cpp 3630: LogPrint("mempool", "AcceptToMemoryPool: %s %s : accepted %s (poolsz %"PRIszu")\n",
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1754 2014-03-19 18:35:53 <wumpus> gmaxwell: if you have debug=mempool, then you will get the addr and cleanSubVer of the node that sent the transaction
1755 2014-03-19 18:36:05 <gmaxwell> wumpus: none of those. I assume that mempool is just not in the debug=1 loglevel.
1756 2014-03-19 18:36:14 <gmaxwell> so it's not even like you'd get these if you had debug=1 set.
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1758 2014-03-19 18:36:29 <wumpus> that's weird ... but in any case, by default you don't get them
1759 2014-03-19 18:36:39 pierce_ is now known as pierce
1760 2014-03-19 18:36:52 <wumpus> only on connect and misbehave you do get the IPs always
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1762 2014-03-19 18:37:20 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I've brought up the security point in the past, and nobody corrected it.
1763 2014-03-19 18:37:50 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: there are a lot of people misunderstanding this, I've tried to correct them in the past, but no one listens to me anyway
1764 2014-03-19 18:38:00 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: logging the IPs ever is a concern
1765 2014-03-19 18:38:06 venzen has joined
1766 2014-03-19 18:39:07 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: You don't think the current behavior where its just a setting which is off by default is a problem, I assume?
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1768 2014-03-19 18:40:07 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: the current behaviour appears to be to always log IPs connecting, and no way to turn it off
1769 2014-03-19 18:40:18 <Luke-Jr> in 0.9.0
1770 2014-03-19 18:40:37 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yes, AFAIK that was the behavior in 0.8.6 too.
1771 2014-03-19 18:40:39 <sipa> did we ever fix/find the problem with the slow first getbalance?
1772 2014-03-19 18:40:39 <Luke-Jr> trying to confirm the "only with debug" thing, but I don't see that
1773 2014-03-19 18:41:05 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I'm not getting _any_ of those AcceptToMemoryPool logs.. and I'm running with debug=1.
1774 2014-03-19 18:41:09 <gmaxwell> e.g.
1775 2014-03-19 18:41:09 <gmaxwell> 2014-03-19 16:53:15 ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool : inputs already spent
1776 2014-03-19 18:42:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's the log-IP-on-connect that is my concern; looking at git history, it appears you're right about it preceding 0.9.0 though
1777 2014-03-19 18:42:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: no. I did't consider it too serious esp since it seems we have a good idea of the probable cause (scanning spent).
1778 2014-03-19 18:42:14 <Luke-Jr> looks like 0.7.0
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1783 2014-03-19 18:45:05 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, posted a correction to the thread
1784 2014-03-19 18:45:22 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: thanks
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1790 2014-03-19 18:47:40 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: in the future could you please try to be less bombastic in public threads?
1791 2014-03-19 18:48:10 <gmaxwell> at a minimum it would be a kindness if you say in here that you're going to be bombastic first so that, even if you can't be talked out of it, you can at least get factual corrections. :)
1792 2014-03-19 18:49:40 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: had my previous attempts to voice this concern had not been ignored, I wouldn't have. :/
1793 2014-03-19 18:51:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't think it was ignored, I think that there was just miscommunication. I agree we shouldn't be doing a lot or any IP logging by default, but nothing had changed⦠And the connect message logging is pretty benign as you don't know when which disconnects.
1794 2014-03-19 18:51:56 venzen has joined
1795 2014-03-19 18:51:57 <Luke-Jr> well, it was ignored because you guys assumed I knew something I should have known but didn't :p
1796 2014-03-19 18:52:04 <Luke-Jr> I guess
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1800 2014-03-19 18:53:45 <gmaxwell> Sorry about that. No. I'd consider default detailed logging of potentially private third party data to be a major privacy / data retention issue. Every time it come up you've seen me oppose it (see, for example, rebroads endless requests to add extensive IP logging).
1801 2014-03-19 18:54:44 olalonde has joined
1802 2014-03-19 18:55:31 <wumpus> the last round of adding IPs to logging was by Mike Hearn (though, as mentioned, this was only for messages already behind a debug flag)
1803 2014-03-19 18:56:21 <wumpus> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3296
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1805 2014-03-19 18:57:04 <wumpus> I merged it but it has acks by sipa, gavin and gmaxwell so it was not like it was snuck in :p
1806 2014-03-19 18:58:00 <BlueMatt> oh really gribble?
1807 2014-03-19 18:58:11 <gmaxwell> Do note that I specifically cited the fact that it was off by default. :)
1808 2014-03-19 18:58:21 drayah has joined
1809 2014-03-19 19:01:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: Hm?
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1811 2014-03-19 19:02:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: uhoh see issue 3903? (was that why you were asking about getbalance)
1812 2014-03-19 19:03:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: Oh, the ;;later notes?
1813 2014-03-19 19:04:27 <BlueMatt> indeed
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1837 2014-03-19 19:17:28 <richcollins> Is there a tool that I can use to verify a scriptSig given a full transaction?
1838 2014-03-19 19:17:30 <wallet42> where can i read about bip61?
1839 2014-03-19 19:17:36 <richcollins> I was ble to use https://blockchain.info/decode-tx to decode my tx and view it
1840 2014-03-19 19:17:46 <richcollins> but testnet isn't accepting it and I don't know why
1841 2014-03-19 19:17:50 ralphtheninja has joined
1842 2014-03-19 19:18:21 <richcollins> I was able to verify the scriptPubKey up to OP_DUP OP_HASH160 ... OP_EQUALVERIFY
1843 2014-03-19 19:18:33 <richcollins> but I don't know of an easy to way to check OP_CHECKSIG
1844 2014-03-19 19:19:08 gazab has joined
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1846 2014-03-19 19:21:07 <Cryo> https://twitter.com/Gr8stInstrumnts/status/446280980702035969 lol. *waits for code change*
1847 2014-03-19 19:21:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Cryo: Patches Welcomeâ¢
1848 2014-03-19 19:22:26 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes
1849 2014-03-19 19:23:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(though I doubt that one would make it in)
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1853 2014-03-19 19:32:26 <Imbue> Cryo: lol.
1854 2014-03-19 19:34:14 <wallet42> hm if i download bitcoin-qt from the bitcoin.org website it still says that im running beta software
1855 2014-03-19 19:34:14 <wallet42> im on osx
1856 2014-03-19 19:34:40 <Imbue> wallet42: it should say 0.9.0-beta but not have the yellow bar
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1858 2014-03-19 19:34:52 <dexX7> re: 0.9: "What's going to happen to the fees? Will those 10x cheaper transactions only be relayed or also mined with this release?" -- i ask here again, because reddit still claims it's also mined?
1859 2014-03-19 19:34:55 <wallet42> it has the yellow bar
1860 2014-03-19 19:35:27 <justanotheruser> dexX7: miners decide. They don't follow the reference client
1861 2014-03-19 19:35:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wallet42: all Bitcoin software is beta software
1862 2014-03-19 19:35:46 <dexX7> and assuming they do follow the reference client?
1863 2014-03-19 19:35:53 <wallet42> i know but the yellow bar should not be there or?
1864 2014-03-19 19:35:54 <Imbue> michagogo|cloud: i think he's talking about the 'this is a development version' warning
1865 2014-03-19 19:35:56 <jgarzik> I note that I did not ACK the IP logging
1866 2014-03-19 19:35:57 <jgarzik> ...
1867 2014-03-19 19:36:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, that's weird
1868 2014-03-19 19:36:14 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|pokes gavinandresen
1869 2014-03-19 19:36:41 <justanotheruser> dexX7: not sure. You could ask Luke-Jr. My guess is miners will do what is most profitable.
1870 2014-03-19 19:36:45 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the ip logging is only if debug=1 right?
1871 2014-03-19 19:36:52 <jgarzik> dexX7,
1872 2014-03-19 19:36:54 <jgarzik> It should be noted that this fee reduction only applies to the
1873 2014-03-19 19:36:54 <jgarzik> suggested anti-spam minimums. The actual fee paid by users is
1874 2014-03-19 19:36:54 <jgarzik> determined by what miners are willing to include in a block. Reducing
1875 2014-03-19 19:36:54 <jgarzik> the anti-spam minimum fee should increase the chance of a transaction
1876 2014-03-19 19:36:54 <jgarzik> being relayed across the network to various miners. This does not
1877 2014-03-19 19:36:55 <jgarzik> imply a global network fee reduction. Transaction fees are and
1878 2014-03-19 19:36:57 <jgarzik> continue to be set by the mining market.
1879 2014-03-19 19:37:09 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: miners are expected to NOT just use reference defaults
1880 2014-03-19 19:37:14 <justanotheruser> dexX7: not that Luke-Jr knows about how the reference client mines, but he will know whether Eligius will take those cheap tx
1881 2014-03-19 19:37:30 <Imbue> if i'm not wrong, doesn't transaction creation still use 10000sat fee
1882 2014-03-19 19:37:36 <Imbue> have to trawl through the commit
1883 2014-03-19 19:37:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Imbue: correct
1884 2014-03-19 19:37:41 <Imbue> i.e you'd have to manually create one
1885 2014-03-19 19:37:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|transaction creation hasn't changed
1886 2014-03-19 19:37:57 <wallet42> yes the std fee is still 10K sat
1887 2014-03-19 19:38:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell gavinandresen* Hey, wallet42 is reporting that the OS X build of 0.9.0 has the yellow "development version" banner...
1888 2014-03-19 19:38:02 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1891 2014-03-19 19:39:01 <wallet42> you cant send out 1K sat transaction fees as there are no 0.9 nodes to securly relay them
1892 2014-03-19 19:39:13 <Imbue> sure
1893 2014-03-19 19:39:34 <wallet42> you can send it to a .9 miner node if you craft it yourself tou
1894 2014-03-19 19:39:48 <wallet42> lowering fees is always a 2 step process
1895 2014-03-19 19:39:49 <felipelalli> Hi guys, today is my second day trying to understand bitcoin repo. I'm very new here, so I maybe will make stupid questions. Please be patient or tell me if I have to make theses questions in another place. --- About https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/multiwallet-qt.md my question is: this modification (multiwallet support) is in which branch? If it is on master already, the 0.9.x version already have support to multi wallets?
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1897 2014-03-19 19:40:08 <dexX7> i see. thanks.
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1899 2014-03-19 19:40:12 <sipa> felipelalli: it's a design document
1900 2014-03-19 19:40:16 <sipa> felipelalli: it's not implemented
1901 2014-03-19 19:40:38 <felipelalli> Thank you @sipa. Not even a draft?
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1903 2014-03-19 19:40:57 <sipa> no
1904 2014-03-19 19:41:03 <felipelalli> Thank you!
1905 2014-03-19 19:41:29 <dexX7> re: pools. i'd love, if they start to shift from "you can earn xxx" to "our pool has this and that feature (like enabled op codes, fees etc.)"
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1909 2014-03-19 19:41:50 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: the plan is to split policy out of the pool
1910 2014-03-19 19:41:59 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: so you then choose to mine with pool X and policy Y
1911 2014-03-19 19:42:14 <dexX7> that would be awesome
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1914 2014-03-19 19:45:27 <gavinandresen> Bah! My 0.9.0 OSX also has the "this is a pre-release test build" banner⦠how'd that happen?
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1918 2014-03-19 19:48:04 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: we're so used to seeing it that we didn't notice? :D
1919 2014-03-19 19:48:31 Application has joined
1920 2014-03-19 19:48:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: Did you forget to checkout the tag perhaps?
1921 2014-03-19 19:48:49 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shrugs
1922 2014-03-19 19:49:01 <wumpus> according to configure.ac in v0.9.0: define(_CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE, true)
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1924 2014-03-19 19:49:10 <gavinandresen> somehow I ended up with:
1925 2014-03-19 19:49:16 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: that would also be my guess; do you have a 0.9.99 instead of 0.9.0?
1926 2014-03-19 19:49:17 <gavinandresen> bitcoin-config.h:#define CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE false
1927 2014-03-19 19:49:18 <gavinandresen> clientversion.h:#define CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE true
1928 2014-03-19 19:49:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: Yeah, the windows and linux builds are fine
1929 2014-03-19 19:49:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: I don't know -- I don't have anything
1930 2014-03-19 19:49:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wallet42 was the one who reported the issue
1931 2014-03-19 19:49:54 <wumpus> gavinandresen: maybe have you built master instead of the v0.9.0 tag?
1932 2014-03-19 19:50:01 <gavinandresen> No, I built the correct tag.
1933 2014-03-19 19:50:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Odd.
1934 2014-03-19 19:50:10 <gavinandresen> Probably forgot to do a 'make clean' at some point....
1935 2014-03-19 19:50:32 <gavinandresen> ⦠and mumble mumble something I don't understand about how all the version stuff works
1936 2014-03-19 19:51:00 beachandbytes has joined
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1938 2014-03-19 19:51:40 <gavinandresen> hmm. make clean doesn't remove bitcoin-config.h or clientversion.h ....
1939 2014-03-19 19:52:15 <sipa> it certainly shouldn't remove clientversion, but bitcoin-config should be rewritten if you configure again
1940 2014-03-19 19:52:23 flatfly has joined
1941 2014-03-19 19:52:39 <gavinandresen> sipa: blah. Configure again....
1942 2014-03-19 19:52:42 <wumpus> right, clientversion.h is part of the git repo
1943 2014-03-19 19:53:00 <wumpus> 'make distclean' should get rid of the other
1944 2014-03-19 19:53:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is there a list somewhere of what arguments make takes?
1945 2014-03-19 19:53:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(and what they do)
1946 2014-03-19 19:54:23 <wallet42> i think thats what makefile is for
1947 2014-03-19 19:54:23 <wallet42> but im no expert
1948 2014-03-19 19:54:45 <felipelalli> Excuse my ignorance again, but I am reading this now: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md#write-release-notes-git-shortlog-helps-a-lot-for-example - who is responsible to write down the release note? Or anyone can do this?
1949 2014-03-19 19:54:57 <sipa> felipelalli: the one making the release
1950 2014-03-19 19:55:00 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: what, you're asking for autotools documentation ? :p
1951 2014-03-19 19:55:11 <felipelalli> Thanks @sipa.
1952 2014-03-19 19:55:21 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1953 2014-03-19 19:55:33 flatfly has quit (Client Quit)
1954 2014-03-19 19:55:37 <sipa> felipelalli: when submitting a pull request, include commits with reasonable messages, so when a release is made from it, it's easy to include a notice about it in the release notes
1955 2014-03-19 19:55:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: No, make documentation
1956 2014-03-19 19:56:01 <felipelalli> Thank you so much @sipa.
1957 2014-03-19 19:56:03 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1958 2014-03-19 19:56:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(unless make it part of autotools, in which case I guess I am?)
1959 2014-03-19 19:56:15 HeySteve has joined
1960 2014-03-19 19:56:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|is*
1961 2014-03-19 19:57:03 <wumpus> the makefile is generated by autotools
1962 2014-03-19 19:57:20 buhbuh has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1963 2014-03-19 19:57:32 <wumpus> make itself is not, but all arguments for make ("targets") are in the makefile... arguments for make itself are flags and such
1964 2014-03-19 19:57:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah
1965 2014-03-19 19:57:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So that's not documented anywhere?
1966 2014-03-19 19:57:57 <wumpus> ("man make" in that case)
1967 2014-03-19 19:58:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Someone who knows how autotools works should do that, then :-P
1968 2014-03-19 19:58:11 <wumpus> I'm sure it is documented somewhere
1969 2014-03-19 19:58:18 <wumpus> deep on some GNU website
1970 2014-03-19 19:58:26 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
1971 2014-03-19 19:58:29 <wumpus> just don't ask me...
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1980 2014-03-19 20:00:56 <gavinandresen> I'm rebuilding the OSX .dmg now, will code-sign, re-upload, fix the SHASUMS, and add a 'make distclean' to doc/release-process.md so I don't make the same mistake next release
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1986 2014-03-19 20:05:15 <venzen> well glad it's easily remedied... here's the release, in a nutshell: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/19/bitcoin-core-0-9-0-released/
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1990 2014-03-19 20:06:27 <gavinandresen> sipa: what is the trick to get configure to define CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE to true ? make distclean and re-configure in my OSX 0.9.0-tagged tree didn't work
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1994 2014-03-19 20:07:32 HM has quit (Excess Flood)
1995 2014-03-19 20:07:46 <BCB> how do i increase the number connections on my node? what is the max number of connections?
1996 2014-03-19 20:07:55 uiop has quit (Excess Flood)
1997 2014-03-19 20:08:02 brson has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
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2004 2014-03-19 20:08:23 <muzaky> "191 weeks behind" what is it mean?
2005 2014-03-19 20:08:41 <venzen> BCB: the default -maxnonnections is 40
2006 2014-03-19 20:08:51 <Imbue> muzaky: downloading and verifying blockchain
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2011 2014-03-19 20:09:19 <venzen> BCB: you can increase or decrease with -maxconnections=100, but why?
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2013 2014-03-19 20:09:42 <muzaky> then, what should ido after verify block chain?
2014 2014-03-19 20:09:54 <BCB> venzen: thx. I just read in a blog that if you run a full node you should have more connections than 8
2015 2014-03-19 20:10:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: Do you have a different version of autotools or something?
2016 2014-03-19 20:10:04 <Imbue> muzaky: then you have a synced client; you can use it; what do you mean?
2017 2014-03-19 20:10:46 bonks has joined
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2019 2014-03-19 20:11:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe `git clean -dxf`?
2020 2014-03-19 20:11:34 melvster has joined
2021 2014-03-19 20:12:05 sl01 has joined
2022 2014-03-19 20:12:09 <wumpus> gavinandresen: there should be no trick... configure.ac is hardcoded to generate CLIENT_VERSION_IS_RELEASE to true in the 0.9.0 tag
2023 2014-03-19 20:12:11 iuyiujh has joined
2024 2014-03-19 20:12:25 <venzen> BCB: running a full node also involves allowing connection from the net to your node, yet having 8 connections is easily achieved without you having to do much :)
2025 2014-03-19 20:12:46 <wumpus> gavinandresen: do you maybe have multiple bitcoin_config.h's in different locations?
2026 2014-03-19 20:12:54 <wumpus> gavinandresen: if so, remove them all, then re-run configure...
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2029 2014-03-19 20:13:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: one person on reddit reports their 0.9.0 says "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications" on OSX
2030 2014-03-19 20:13:44 muzaky has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2032 2014-03-19 20:13:56 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yes, working on that right now, wrestling with autotools....
2033 2014-03-19 20:14:00 <wumpus> jgarzik: known issue, somehow the macosx build has that
2034 2014-03-19 20:14:01 <BCB> venzen: I'm running a full test node allowing incoming connections from the net. I'm glad to increase the connections if it is helpful, if not I'll keep it at 8.
2035 2014-03-19 20:14:01 <wallet42> is connecting every 3 minute for about 30 seconds misbehaving?
2036 2014-03-19 20:14:14 songz has joined
2037 2014-03-19 20:15:25 <gavinandresen> wumpus michagogo|cloud : git clean -dxf then a reconfigure fixed it.
2038 2014-03-19 20:15:50 raid5 has joined
2039 2014-03-19 20:15:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: that's a very harsh measure... i believe it shouldn't need that
2040 2014-03-19 20:16:01 <sipa> gavinandresen: talk to cfields i gues...
2041 2014-03-19 20:16:09 <venzen> BCB: someone else may advise differently, but I would say setting maxconnections to exactly 8 is too close to the edge, maybe between 10-20 is better?
2042 2014-03-19 20:16:36 Ademan has joined
2043 2014-03-19 20:16:40 <sipa> BCB: the max number of outgoing connections is always 8
2044 2014-03-19 20:16:45 <BCB> venzen: ok, i'll try that. this is the first I've heard that more then 8 connections is better for the network.
2045 2014-03-19 20:16:48 <sipa> BCB: the max number of total connections is 128
2046 2014-03-19 20:16:56 <sipa> by default
2047 2014-03-19 20:17:06 <BCB> sipa on 0.9
2048 2014-03-19 20:17:08 <BCB> ?
2049 2014-03-19 20:17:10 <sipa> BCB: yes
2050 2014-03-19 20:17:14 <BCB> ahh
2051 2014-03-19 20:17:15 <sipa> since... 0.3 or so
2052 2014-03-19 20:17:17 <wallet42> how many ressources 1 connection needs?
2053 2014-03-19 20:17:18 <BCB> didn't know that
2054 2014-03-19 20:17:24 <venzen> BCB: imagine 1 or 2 of those connection fail on their side - then you'll temporarily _not_ have a full node, you see
2055 2014-03-19 20:17:24 ziggamon has joined
2056 2014-03-19 20:17:34 <sipa> venzen: huh?
2057 2014-03-19 20:17:45 <BCB> sipa: they why have my past noded always stoped at 8 connectionis?
2058 2014-03-19 20:17:45 <sipa> BCB: -maxconnections changes the max total connection limit
2059 2014-03-19 20:17:57 <sipa> BCB: probably because you can't get incoming connections
2060 2014-03-19 20:18:23 rdymac has joined
2061 2014-03-19 20:18:28 <sipa> port forwarding, firewall issues, ...
2062 2014-03-19 20:18:31 <BCB> so "connections" in "getinfo" only show outgoing connections?
2063 2014-03-19 20:18:34 <sipa> no
2064 2014-03-19 20:18:38 <sipa> it shows total connections
2065 2014-03-19 20:18:47 <sipa> but outgoing ones are limit to 8
2066 2014-03-19 20:18:57 <wallet42> is it like a lot of RAM or CPU?
2067 2014-03-19 20:18:58 <sipa> so if you don't get any incoming ones, the total is 8
2068 2014-03-19 20:19:02 <sipa> wallet42: a bit
2069 2014-03-19 20:19:14 <BCB> sipa: is there a CMD to show incoming connections to my node?
2070 2014-03-19 20:19:24 <wallet42> if i have a spare mashine and want to give like 500 incomming connections
2071 2014-03-19 20:19:26 <sipa> BCB: getpeerinfo
2072 2014-03-19 20:19:47 <sipa> wallet42: then set maxconnections to 508, and make sure you're well-reachable and running for long
2073 2014-03-19 20:20:36 <wallet42> should be fine to 1 procces or should i make like multiple processes with different ports?
2074 2014-03-19 20:20:56 <sipa> one is better
2075 2014-03-19 20:20:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: "one dev's"?
2076 2014-03-19 20:20:58 <sipa> and easier
2077 2014-03-19 20:21:05 <wallet42> okay thx sipa
2078 2014-03-19 20:21:09 <jgarzik> michagogo|cloud, yah, just mine
2079 2014-03-19 20:21:19 <sipa> wallet42: also, it will take a Really Long Time (tm) to get 500 connections
2080 2014-03-19 20:21:34 <sipa> wallet42: as you can't control whether peers like picking you as a peer
2081 2014-03-19 20:21:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jgarzik: I meant more as opposed to "my"
2082 2014-03-19 20:21:43 chichov has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2083 2014-03-19 20:21:47 <wallet42> im in your dnsseeder
2084 2014-03-19 20:21:56 <sipa> wallet42: i only have 150 connections myself, for example
2085 2014-03-19 20:21:58 <wallet42> so it usually goes up quick again after an update
2086 2014-03-19 20:22:00 <wumpus> gavinandresen: I can't remember needing such drastic measures when I switched the flag, I think I just re-ran configure
2087 2014-03-19 20:22:05 <jgarzik> michagogo|cloud, it gets tiresome writing "I ..." and "My..." all the time
2088 2014-03-19 20:22:35 <cfields> gavinandresen: you'll need to re-run autogen.sh for configure to pick up on it
2089 2014-03-19 20:22:49 <wumpus> ah right, autogen.sh, of course
2090 2014-03-19 20:22:52 <BCB> sipa what is the cmd to show nodes I'm connected to?
2091 2014-03-19 20:23:03 <wumpus> you need to regenerate configure which regenerates the .h file :p
2092 2014-03-19 20:23:14 <wallet42> are there papers on p2p networks and min-max-mean connections per peer and their robustness?
2093 2014-03-19 20:23:17 <wumpus> generators generating generators
2094 2014-03-19 20:23:22 <sipa> 21:18:18 < sipa> BCB: getpeerinfo
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2097 2014-03-19 20:23:55 <gavinandresen> cfields: mmm. For release-process purposes in the future, I think git clean -dxf is safest
2098 2014-03-19 20:24:12 <cfields> for this reason, gitian bootstraps and creates the release-source, and builds from there
2099 2014-03-19 20:24:16 <wumpus> and after the clean -dxf you need autogen.sh anyway
2100 2014-03-19 20:24:19 <BCB> sipa: hmm "getinfo" show 8 connections, "getpeerinfo" lists 8 nodes, maxconnections is set to 40
2101 2014-03-19 20:24:47 <cfields> gavinandresen: ^^ releases should be built from the source release itself, rather than git
2102 2014-03-19 20:25:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|cfields: Huh?
2103 2014-03-19 20:25:05 pablog has quit (Quit: pablog)
2104 2014-03-19 20:25:06 <cfields> that guarantees that users get the same builds if they build from the released source
2105 2014-03-19 20:25:12 <sipa> BCB: confirms what i was saying, no?
2106 2014-03-19 20:25:16 <gavinandresen> cfields: okey dokey. Update doc/release-process.md please.
2107 2014-03-19 20:25:27 <cfields> gavinandresen: ok
2108 2014-03-19 20:25:49 <cfields> michagogo|cloud: see the gitian descriptors. They run 'make dist', grab the tarball, unpack it, and build it
2109 2014-03-19 20:26:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What does `make dist` do?
2110 2014-03-19 20:26:15 <cfields> makes the bootstrapped release tarball
2111 2014-03-19 20:26:21 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: it creates a .tar.gz file with the source + configure scripts
2112 2014-03-19 20:26:22 <wumpus> right
2113 2014-03-19 20:26:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bootstrapped release tarball?
2114 2014-03-19 20:27:02 <cfields> michagogo|cloud: autogen.sh runs a maze of tools to create a configure script. that script is just bash
2115 2014-03-19 20:27:28 <cfields> so for final release, you run the tools and get a bash script as output. then users don't have to have any of the autotools stuff on their systems, configure is just bash
2116 2014-03-19 20:27:47 <cfields> oversimplification ofc, but that's the gist
2117 2014-03-19 20:27:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah.
2118 2014-03-19 20:28:00 <sipa> are we shipping the generated source .tar.gz now?
2119 2014-03-19 20:28:06 <cfields> yea
2120 2014-03-19 20:28:08 <wumpus> cfields: btw, someone was missing the debian/ stuff in the .tar.gz, I wonder if it's possible to add an entire directory to the make dist output
2121 2014-03-19 20:28:43 <cfields> wumpus: you can, but it's not advised. see the current "wildcard" usage in makefile.am
2122 2014-03-19 20:28:44 <sipa> cfields: not seeing it on https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/
2123 2014-03-19 20:29:01 <cfields> sipa: it's inside the linux .tar.gz
2124 2014-03-19 20:29:05 <sipa> ugh
2125 2014-03-19 20:29:12 <sipa> ok, better than nothing :)
2126 2014-03-19 20:29:13 <cfields> indeed :)
2127 2014-03-19 20:29:27 <wumpus> right, ideally it should be shipped seperately
2128 2014-03-19 20:29:41 <wumpus> quite some people have requested a deterministic .tar.gz sourceball
2129 2014-03-19 20:30:11 <cfields> i figured gavinandresen was probably stressed enough yesterday :) i'm working on putting my complaints in the form of documentation for next time instead
2130 2014-03-19 20:30:11 <sipa> agree
2131 2014-03-19 20:30:18 <sipa> cfields: +1
2132 2014-03-19 20:30:21 <cfields> wumpus: it is
2133 2014-03-19 20:30:23 verwilst has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2134 2014-03-19 20:30:32 <cfields> wumpus: rather, it was last time i tested it
2135 2014-03-19 20:30:39 <wumpus> yes, let's just add it to the release process, it's the only way to make sure it keeps happening
2136 2014-03-19 20:30:44 <cfields> the bootstrapped win32 tar.gz matches the linux one
2137 2014-03-19 20:30:48 <wumpus> cfields: I know it is, it was lots of work to make it that way
2138 2014-03-19 20:31:07 <cfields> ah ok
2139 2014-03-19 20:32:07 <cfields> well, hopefully the point is moot for osx in the future anyway, if gitian can be building the releases
2140 2014-03-19 20:32:25 <wumpus> that would be very cool
2141 2014-03-19 20:32:27 <cfields> gavinandresen: have you looked into our options wrt dmg signing + determinism?
2142 2014-03-19 20:32:49 <wumpus> cfields: I downloaded all the inputs, haven't tried the osx cross build yet but of course intend to
2143 2014-03-19 20:32:56 <gavinandresen> cfields: nope
2144 2014-03-19 20:32:57 <cfields> i realize the two conflict exactly, just wondering if there's a way to pull the pre-signed image out of it
2145 2014-03-19 20:34:10 <cfields> wumpus: no worries. it's still a bit of a WIP.
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2150 2014-03-19 20:34:46 <cfields> but after that PR (which I'll squash down in a bit), the work can happen outside of the bitcoin repo
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2152 2014-03-19 20:35:46 <gavinandresen> ok, fixed 0.9.0-macosx.dmg uploaded to bitcoin.org (and updated SHASUMS)
2153 2014-03-19 20:36:08 <gavinandresen> ⦠sanity tested on OSX 10.6 and 10.8
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2158 2014-03-19 20:40:21 pbuchan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2159 2014-03-19 20:40:34 <aschildbach_> Shall I add my GPG key to contrib/gitian-downloader?
2160 2014-03-19 20:41:57 <Diablo-D3> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7431640
2161 2014-03-19 20:42:10 <Diablo-D3> its already on the front page after 10 minutes
2162 2014-03-19 20:42:12 <Diablo-D3> gj
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2166 2014-03-19 20:44:54 <wumpus> aschildbach_: yes, why not
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2168 2014-03-19 20:45:46 <aschildbach_> Ok what's that magic number in linux-download-config?
2169 2014-03-19 20:46:07 Keefe has joined
2170 2014-03-19 20:46:16 <aschildbach_> And what does the weight mean?
2171 2014-03-19 20:46:22 <wumpus> good question
2172 2014-03-19 20:46:44 <wumpus> I think the weights are added and checked against minimum_weight
2173 2014-03-19 20:47:07 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: "GCC's stack smashing feature is enabled on Windows" <-- isn't this stack-smashing *protection*? XD
2174 2014-03-19 20:47:10 daybyter has joined
2175 2014-03-19 20:47:24 <wumpus> stack smashing feature sounds more fun
2176 2014-03-19 20:47:36 <Luke-Jr> hehe
2177 2014-03-19 20:48:42 <venzen> sipa: re: 8 connections, if the min req for a "full node" is 8, and your node runs with -maxconnections=8, then if one node's network connection fails your node no longer qualifies - or is there some other mechanism involved?
2178 2014-03-19 20:48:44 <jgarzik> it does
2179 2014-03-19 20:49:01 JessicaS has quit (Quit: JessicaS)
2180 2014-03-19 20:49:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: The weight is used for downloads -- the downloader considers a binary verified if the weight of the people who have signed it is equal or greater than the minimum weight
2181 2014-03-19 20:50:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|aschildbach_: What magic number?
2182 2014-03-19 20:50:36 <aschildbach_> The 9692B91BBF0E8D34DFD33B1882C5C009628ECF0C for you for example.
2183 2014-03-19 20:51:04 cris has quit ()
2184 2014-03-19 20:51:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|fingerprint
2185 2014-03-19 20:52:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(you'll notice the last 4 bytes are the key id)
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2192 2014-03-19 21:02:38 <sbrossie> jgarzik: did you make it back from sxsw? could you give us some feedback on the email thread for recurring payment bip070 extension?
2193 2014-03-19 21:06:38 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2199 2014-03-19 21:14:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/24
2200 2014-03-19 21:14:59 <warren> jgarzik: crud, I somehow missed that the giitan upgrade breaks RHEL6 compat, this is untenable
2201 2014-03-19 21:15:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: What gitian upgrade?
2202 2014-03-19 21:15:54 sois has joined
2203 2014-03-19 21:16:15 <warren> michagogo|cloud: what version of glibc is in precise?
2204 2014-03-19 21:16:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|glibc?
2205 2014-03-19 21:16:37 <warren> RHEL6 has 2.12
2206 2014-03-19 21:16:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;google glibc
2207 2014-03-19 21:16:46 <gribble> The GNU C Library - The GNU Operating System: <http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/libc.html>; The GNU C Library - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF): <http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/>; GNU C Library - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_C_Library>
2208 2014-03-19 21:17:40 <warren> shit
2209 2014-03-19 21:17:44 <warren> precise is 2.13
2210 2014-03-19 21:18:04 Ursium has joined
2211 2014-03-19 21:18:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|"Any Unix-like operating system needs a C library: the library which defines the ``system calls'' and other basic facilities such as open, malloc, printf, exit... The GNU C Library is used as the C library in the GNU systems and most systems with the Linux kernel."
2212 2014-03-19 21:18:58 <venzen> warren: somehow i have 2.15
2213 2014-03-19 21:19:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So that's the basic library that all software runs on?
2214 2014-03-19 21:19:25 <venzen> yep - all the sys binaries
2215 2014-03-19 21:19:55 <warren> venzen: apparently Ubuntu in their infinite wisdom upgraded the major version for no good reason
2216 2014-03-19 21:19:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So a binary that's built with a newer version can't run with the older version?
2217 2014-03-19 21:20:13 <warren> venzen: meaning binaries built here are incompatible with older versions of glibc
2218 2014-03-19 21:20:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's annoying
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2220 2014-03-19 21:20:23 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2221 2014-03-19 21:20:36 aceat64 has quit (Quit: kernel upgrade)
2222 2014-03-19 21:20:50 <venzen> warren: Ubuntu is just a runaway train sometimes - i like it and everything but the layers and inconsistencies... oh lord
2223 2014-03-19 21:21:47 Keefe has joined
2224 2014-03-19 21:22:31 <venzen> warren: that's what you get when you try to be all things to all people... exactly what their Bug #1 accuses MS of...
2225 2014-03-19 21:22:44 softwaremechanic has joined
2226 2014-03-19 21:25:13 <sipa> venzen: full node has nothing to do with connectivity
2227 2014-03-19 21:25:20 <sipa> venzen: one connection is enough to remain synchronized
2228 2014-03-19 21:25:29 <sipa> venzen: a full node is simply one that does full validation
2229 2014-03-19 21:26:00 cris has joined
2230 2014-03-19 21:26:01 <JWU42> is memory usage higher in 0.9 (versus 0.8.6) for others? I am seeing about 100MB more with no changes to .conf and half the open connections
2231 2014-03-19 21:26:23 <warren> JWU42: it uses more leveldb cache by default, 25MB -> 100MB I think.
2232 2014-03-19 21:26:24 <nessence> Few months ago I compiled version 0.8.2 of bitcoin-core. Anything special I should do before running 0.9?
2233 2014-03-19 21:26:43 <JWU42> warren: ok thanks for that
2234 2014-03-19 21:26:50 <venzen> sipa: thanks - i was working from BCB's info that 8 conxns was the minimum and he was setting maxconnections to 8... but I didn't know that one connection was sufficient either :)
2235 2014-03-19 21:27:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|nessence: as with any change (and even with no change), back up your wallet
2236 2014-03-19 21:27:46 <venzen> sipa: ah ok - it's the validation that qualifies it not the quality of connection
2237 2014-03-19 21:27:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Other than that, it should just be a matter of upgrading
2238 2014-03-19 21:28:37 JessicaS has quit (Quit: JessicaS)
2239 2014-03-19 21:28:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: so red hat users can only run if they compile from soyrce?
2240 2014-03-19 21:28:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Source*
2241 2014-03-19 21:28:52 <venzen> warren sipa: wasn't the default setting for -dbcache increased to 100 ?
2242 2014-03-19 21:29:03 <venzen> from 25
2243 2014-03-19 21:29:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: warren just said that
2244 2014-03-19 21:29:39 <sipa> venzen: yes
2245 2014-03-19 21:29:41 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: i just noticed
2246 2014-03-19 21:29:42 <warren> michagogo|cloud: the fun part is you can't compile from source
2247 2014-03-19 21:29:42 coeus_ has joined
2248 2014-03-19 21:29:43 <JWU42> typically on 0.8.6 with 100120 conns I was 520MB now with 31 in 0.9 I am 650MB
2249 2014-03-19 21:29:51 <JWU42> 100-120 that is ;)
2250 2014-03-19 21:29:53 <sipa> 100120 connections? :o
2251 2014-03-19 21:29:54 <sipa> ok
2252 2014-03-19 21:30:10 <JWU42> damn hyphen
2253 2014-03-19 21:30:17 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2254 2014-03-19 21:30:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: oh, right
2255 2014-03-19 21:30:25 <JWU42> otherwise, that would be DAMN impressive
2256 2014-03-19 21:30:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: well, you can if you also compile OpenSSL
2257 2014-03-19 21:30:45 <warren> michagogo|cloud: that's not a good requirement ...
2258 2014-03-19 21:30:55 <warren> michagogo|cloud: i'm looking at rewriting gitian now
2259 2014-03-19 21:31:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I don't disagree.
2260 2014-03-19 21:31:06 nsokl has joined
2261 2014-03-19 21:31:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Would statically linking glibc work?
2262 2014-03-19 21:31:58 <nessence> Did hierarchical wallets get into 0.9?
2263 2014-03-19 21:32:02 <sipa> nessence: no
2264 2014-03-19 21:32:05 <nsokl> does sendrawtransaction have a rate limiting mechanism in place (i.e. I am getting a -22 tx rejected error when I try to broadcast 2 transactions within a second or so of eachother)
2265 2014-03-19 21:32:16 <sipa> nsokl: no
2266 2014-03-19 21:32:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|nsokl: I believe not
2267 2014-03-19 21:32:20 <nsokl> the bitcoind debug log has no error message for that
2268 2014-03-19 21:32:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|nsokl: does one spend the other?
2269 2014-03-19 21:32:39 <sipa> nsokl: 0.9 gives more informative error messages
2270 2014-03-19 21:33:05 <nsokl> hm...odd then.. -22 is a very ambiguous error...anything I may try (these two transactions bcast fine when done with space between them...it's only when done very quickly together)
2271 2014-03-19 21:33:15 <nsokl> ok.. I can try 0.9
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2281 2014-03-19 21:45:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: I see you didn't consolidate Cory and theuni in the blog post :-P
2282 2014-03-19 21:46:46 <warren> michagogo|cloud: blog post?
2283 2014-03-19 21:47:01 ninsei has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2284 2014-03-19 21:47:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: the Foundation's blog
2285 2014-03-19 21:48:56 bitblender has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2288 2014-03-19 21:50:23 <warren> michagogo|cloud: I'm really sad I missed this. I advocated for the upgrade to precise for windows builds only.
2289 2014-03-19 21:50:39 <warren> michagogo|cloud: there's no reason why downgrading the linux gitian to lucid wouldn't work.
2290 2014-03-19 21:50:39 bitblender has joined
2291 2014-03-19 21:50:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Except requiring 3 VMS)
2292 2014-03-19 21:51:08 <warren> michagogo|cloud: three?
2293 2014-03-19 21:51:10 <warren> oh
2294 2014-03-19 21:51:20 Gnaf has joined
2295 2014-03-19 21:51:21 <warren> michagogo|cloud: the resulting binaries would actually work
2296 2014-03-19 21:51:30 Gnaf has quit (Changing host)
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2299 2014-03-19 21:51:59 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wonders what percentage of Bitcoin Core users are on red hat
2300 2014-03-19 21:52:14 <gavinandresen> I bet it is 0.11 percent.
2301 2014-03-19 21:52:19 <warren> michagogo|cloud: a lot didn't for years because you can't build it there.
2302 2014-03-19 21:52:24 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2303 2014-03-19 21:52:41 <nessence> sipa / michagogo|cloud: thanks for your help!
2304 2014-03-19 21:52:48 Imbue has quit (Quit: Imbue)
2305 2014-03-19 21:52:55 <warren> gavinandresen: is it impossible to reverse course on the minimum requirement for linux gitian builds?
2306 2014-03-19 21:53:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: how hard would it be to build linux 32 and 64 bit in the same vm?
2307 2014-03-19 21:53:17 yubrew has joined
2308 2014-03-19 21:53:23 <warren> michagogo|cloud: it's easy on red hat ...
2309 2014-03-19 21:53:26 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2311 2014-03-19 21:53:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What about in gitian?
2312 2014-03-19 21:53:37 MolokoBot has joined
2313 2014-03-19 21:54:03 paveljanik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2314 2014-03-19 21:54:06 <gavinandresen> warren: supporting older Linux releases with binaries is WAAAAAYYYY down on my list of priorities. Wait, no, that's a lie⦠isn't on my list at all.
2315 2014-03-19 21:54:07 felipelalli_ has joined
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2317 2014-03-19 21:54:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: btw, how old is rhel6?
2318 2014-03-19 21:54:42 <warren> michagogo|cloud: that doesn't matter, it's the longest supported distro in the world.
2319 2014-03-19 21:55:04 <warren> michagogo|cloud: until 2024
2320 2014-03-19 21:55:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How long has it been not the latest?
2321 2014-03-19 21:55:09 <gavinandresen> Something that IS on my list of priorities: starting to use some of the nicer C++11 features. Building on precise will probably make that more possible
2322 2014-03-19 21:55:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And when was it released?
2323 2014-03-19 21:55:32 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2324 2014-03-19 21:55:32 <warren> michagogo|cloud: late 2010
2325 2014-03-19 21:55:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which question was that answering?
2326 2014-03-19 21:55:58 <warren> gavinandresen: we could have made at least 0.9 the last release that worked on those distros that are still very prevalent. To make things worse, you can't even build bitcoin there.
2327 2014-03-19 21:57:09 MolokoDeck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2331 2014-03-19 21:58:38 <venzen> michagogo|cloud warren: thing with Red Hat is it's great for building servers from pre-existing packages, but compiling with missing dependecies on there... oh lord
2332 2014-03-19 21:59:11 <warren> I personally replace my openssl, but that isn't a good option for ordinary people.
2333 2014-03-19 21:59:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why is that?
2334 2014-03-19 21:59:37 <warren> michagogo|cloud: security updates
2335 2014-03-19 21:59:57 <softwaremechanic> Has a canonical build virtual machine image been considered? It might be more reliable than assuming that the combination of all the dependencies will support correct output in all cases.
2336 2014-03-19 22:00:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|As in, you'll stop getting them?
2337 2014-03-19 22:00:10 <sipa> warren: i hope we can make progress on removing openssl as a requirement
2338 2014-03-19 22:00:13 <sipa> warren: at least for bitcoind
2339 2014-03-19 22:00:23 <Diablo-D3> softwaremechanic: what would be nice
2340 2014-03-19 22:00:26 <warren> sipa: the bigger problem is the minimum required glibc
2341 2014-03-19 22:00:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|softwaremechanic: um, you mean like gitian?
2342 2014-03-19 22:00:37 benrcole has joined
2343 2014-03-19 22:00:38 <sipa> warren: that's not a build-time requirement
2344 2014-03-19 22:00:38 <Diablo-D3> michagogo|cloud: gitian isnt perfect
2345 2014-03-19 22:00:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Diablo-D3: ok
2346 2014-03-19 22:00:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ik*
2347 2014-03-19 22:00:53 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: the RedHat packaging system "RPM" is just messy and nowhere as easy as 'apt' in Debian based distro for easily adding a PPA or grabbing a stray library
2348 2014-03-19 22:00:53 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt download, for example, a compiler binary
2349 2014-03-19 22:01:03 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2350 2014-03-19 22:01:03 <softwaremechanic> Not too familiar with gitian, but similar in concept I think
2351 2014-03-19 22:01:04 <Diablo-D3> venzen: your comparison is valid
2352 2014-03-19 22:01:05 <Diablo-D3> er
2353 2014-03-19 22:01:06 <Diablo-D3> invalid
2354 2014-03-19 22:01:13 <sipa> warren: there's always the option of building from source for that
2355 2014-03-19 22:01:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Diablo-D3: it uses precise's compiler
2356 2014-03-19 22:01:27 <Diablo-D3> venzen: rpm is redhat's dpkg clone
2357 2014-03-19 22:01:29 <sipa> warren: but ancient g++ is a major burden for improving the source
2358 2014-03-19 22:01:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: not with redhat's SSL
2359 2014-03-19 22:01:42 <Diablo-D3> venzen: rpm has several different things to compare with to apt-get, depending on the distro
2360 2014-03-19 22:01:43 <warren> sipa: RHEL6 g++ isn't ancient
2361 2014-03-19 22:01:43 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: sigh
2362 2014-03-19 22:01:52 <Diablo-D3> venzen: yum, up2date, etc
2363 2014-03-19 22:01:57 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2364 2014-03-19 22:02:00 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: i mean, after we get rid of openssl as a requiremtn
2365 2014-03-19 22:02:07 t3st3r has joined
2366 2014-03-19 22:02:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: sigh indeed
2367 2014-03-19 22:02:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, yeah, right
2368 2014-03-19 22:02:16 <warren> sipa: was secp256k1 audited?
2369 2014-03-19 22:02:20 <warren> lib*
2370 2014-03-19 22:02:24 <sipa> warren: not enough
2371 2014-03-19 22:02:43 <softwaremechanic> Sometimes minor differences in compiler versions and libc versions can produce incorrect output in some scenarios. For most stuff it wouldn't matter, but seems like it would be critical for bitcoin crypto.
2372 2014-03-19 22:02:56 <venzen> Diablo-D3: you're right i'm comparing RPM to apt but it should be "up2date" as you say - still substitute that in my statement and it becomes valid and true :)
2373 2014-03-19 22:03:10 jrmithdobbs has joined
2374 2014-03-19 22:03:12 <softwaremechanic> I would be concerned about people building clients out in the wild and doing wrong things
2375 2014-03-19 22:03:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|softwaremechanic: Linux release binaries are built with the Ubuntu-packaged build toolchain
2376 2014-03-19 22:04:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|softwaremechanic: are you familiar with the build process and gitian?
2377 2014-03-19 22:04:52 jakov has joined
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2382 2014-03-19 22:06:01 <softwaremechanic> Not really, just came in midstream and am getting familiar with bitcoin. I've done alot of high-rel flight code for rockets, and some of the problems are sounding similar
2383 2014-03-19 22:06:09 raminnoodle has joined
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2385 2014-03-19 22:06:47 <raminnoodle> I know there isnt a for sure fire way to get a senders "from" address. However if funds are sent from a private wallet will this method work a majority of the time?
2386 2014-03-19 22:06:47 <raminnoodle> DecodedRawTransaction.vout[DecodedRawTransaction.vin.vout].scriptPubKey.addresses[0]
2387 2014-03-19 22:06:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|softwaremechanic: bitcoin releases are built deterministically in an Ubuntu VM with ,,(lucky gitian-builder)
2388 2014-03-19 22:06:57 <gribble> http://gitian.org/
2389 2014-03-19 22:07:00 <softwaremechanic> Best way I've found to do 32 bit builds on a 64 bit vm is to use a chroot
2390 2014-03-19 22:07:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(VM or LXC)
2391 2014-03-19 22:07:56 wateratosthenes has quit (Quit: wateratosthenes)
2392 2014-03-19 22:07:56 <softwaremechanic> @michagogo: oh, cool, I misunderstood I think
2393 2014-03-19 22:08:01 <softwaremechanic> vm
2394 2014-03-19 22:08:04 <softwaremechanic> haven't tried lxc
2395 2014-03-19 22:08:15 <softwaremechanic> although should be the same concept I think
2396 2014-03-19 22:08:21 <sipa> raminnoodle: the question is: why would you want to restrict yourself to that case?
2397 2014-03-19 22:08:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|softwaremechanic: I mean, the build is done in a VM or lxc
2398 2014-03-19 22:08:31 <sipa> raminnoodle: it will become less common in the future (coinjoin, for example)
2399 2014-03-19 22:09:11 <raminnoodle> yep :/ i know best practice currently is to create a new address for each user
2400 2014-03-19 22:09:12 <sipa> raminnoodle: also, *that* method will absolutely not work - it assumes an output back to the sender?
2401 2014-03-19 22:09:19 nessence has joined
2402 2014-03-19 22:09:39 <raminnoodle> correct it assumes, how do these other sites get away with it?
2403 2014-03-19 22:09:52 <sipa> raminnoodle: by being broken
2404 2014-03-19 22:09:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They don't
2405 2014-03-19 22:10:02 <raminnoodle> "by being broken"
2406 2014-03-19 22:10:19 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
2407 2014-03-19 22:10:23 <raminnoodle> mean majority of the guesses are incorrect.
2408 2014-03-19 22:10:37 <softwaremechanic> Was gitian developed for bitcoin?
2409 2014-03-19 22:10:45 <raminnoodle> Its crazy to think sites like luckybit that gets so many transactions could get away with it so many times
2410 2014-03-19 22:10:47 <sipa> they do things like "first send us a very small amount to check whether our method works"
2411 2014-03-19 22:10:51 <sipa> raminnoodle: don't do that
2412 2014-03-19 22:10:57 <sipa> raminnoodle: if you need a refund address, ask for one
2413 2014-03-19 22:11:03 <raminnoodle> yes I do
2414 2014-03-19 22:11:09 <raminnoodle> I was just wondering how they get away with it
2415 2014-03-19 22:11:11 <sipa> raminnoodle: if you need to distinguish payments, use a separate payment address
2416 2014-03-19 22:11:25 <raminnoodle> sipa: I do, I request an address first
2417 2014-03-19 22:11:34 <sipa> raminnoodle: by making bad assumptions on how wallets work
2418 2014-03-19 22:11:37 <raminnoodle> I just like to know how stuff works sometimes
2419 2014-03-19 22:11:52 <sipa> they probably look a tthe output of the first output being spent by a transacvtion
2420 2014-03-19 22:11:54 <raminnoodle> so they just assume.. wow thats crazy
2421 2014-03-19 22:11:57 [\\\] has joined
2422 2014-03-19 22:12:05 <sipa> which doesn't work with shared wallets or coinjoin or complex transaction types
2423 2014-03-19 22:12:12 <raminnoodle> yea it works from private wallets
2424 2014-03-19 22:12:14 <sipa> limiting bitcoin's growth to start adopting these practices more
2425 2014-03-19 22:12:19 <raminnoodle> exactly coinbase and exchanges it wont work
2426 2014-03-19 22:13:26 <raminnoodle> cool thanks for the 2cents. you told me what I already knew but I like to hear it from someone that knwos more than I do.. haha thanks again
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2430 2014-03-19 22:14:41 <gmaxwell> softwaremechanic: Yes, I think there are certantly parallels with safty criticial avionics software. Even worse, we really can't do the kind of whole-system tests that you'd expect for such systems because Bitcoin inherently requires running software on systems operated by many different people. Everyone likes to claim their problems are unlike any that have been tackled before, but I think Bitcoin has a better claim to that then many ...
2431 2014-03-19 22:14:48 <gmaxwell> ... things.
2432 2014-03-19 22:15:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: +1
2433 2014-03-19 22:16:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(That last statement especially)
2434 2014-03-19 22:16:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Distributed monetary consensus...
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2437 2014-03-19 22:17:06 <softwaremechanic> interesting point. It would be like having to run high-rel code binaries on unvalidated, random-ass platforms
2438 2014-03-19 22:18:08 <softwaremechanic> Do you think the eventual end game will be a specialized hardware bitcoin client?
2439 2014-03-19 22:18:29 <gmaxwell> No, doubt it. Because then you get centeralization through the hardware. E.g. hardware maker can do evil things.
2440 2014-03-19 22:18:37 <sipa> i think the end game will be several specialized hardware bitcoin clients
2441 2014-03-19 22:20:11 <gmaxwell> It's even worse than the typical "high-rel code binaries on unvalidated, random-ass platforms" case because we often care about bit exact behavior. e.g. if an error never results in more than a 0.0001% difference many applications don't care. Bitcoin must be precise. Oh, and we're not just fighting nature, â attackers look at the implementations and will craft inputs to the network to expose even very obscure inconsistencies.
2442 2014-03-19 22:21:08 <gmaxwell> so an error with only a 1/2^512 happening 'by chance' can actually be observed in practice, especially if the result is causing something really bad to happen.
2443 2014-03-19 22:22:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And even more especially if that something really bad is good for someone
2444 2014-03-19 22:22:19 saracen has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2445 2014-03-19 22:22:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: I guess I should have looked into getbalance more #3903 is reporting a wallet only somewhat bigger than mine and it's not finishing in 10 minutes.. so apparently something is quadratic or worse. :(
2446 2014-03-19 22:22:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|e.g. the malleability leading to transaction reissuing
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2448 2014-03-19 22:23:14 <gmaxwell> as soon as it becomes possible to short bitcoin on non-bitcoin markets everything bad for bitcoin is good for ~someone~.
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2451 2014-03-19 22:24:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Good point
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2458 2014-03-19 22:27:00 mljsimone is now known as mljsimone|off
2459 2014-03-19 22:28:36 gaf has joined
2460 2014-03-19 22:29:08 <gaf> hi, i'm trying to compile vanitygen on a mac mountain lion, but i got some warnings..can you have a look? http://pastebin.com/wmD1B4LD
2461 2014-03-19 22:29:26 Rawdawg- has left ()
2462 2014-03-19 22:30:52 <gaf> nvm, it works!
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2469 2014-03-19 22:36:28 <quiike> hello
2470 2014-03-19 22:36:47 <quiike> anyone here?
2471 2014-03-19 22:36:56 disident has joined
2472 2014-03-19 22:37:35 <sipa> no
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2474 2014-03-19 22:37:45 <quiike> ok
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2482 2014-03-19 22:42:04 <wallet42> how can i adjust the number of bitcoin fork(2) ?
2483 2014-03-19 22:42:20 pnicholson has left ()
2484 2014-03-19 22:43:34 <sipa> ?
2485 2014-03-19 22:43:51 quiike has left ()
2486 2014-03-19 22:44:13 <wallet42> bitcoind runs like 18 processes
2487 2014-03-19 22:44:26 <gmaxwell> No, it doesn't.
2488 2014-03-19 22:44:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wallet42: see bitcoind --help
2489 2014-03-19 22:44:34 <gmaxwell> You're miscounting threads as processes.
2490 2014-03-19 22:44:36 disident_ has joined
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2492 2014-03-19 22:44:43 <wallet42> its what htop shows
2493 2014-03-19 22:44:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|There are options for threads and processes
2494 2014-03-19 22:44:53 <wallet42> every proess has a pid
2495 2014-03-19 22:44:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Erm, ignore the last message
2496 2014-03-19 22:45:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|There are options for script verification threads, and for one other type of thread
2497 2014-03-19 22:45:27 <wallet42> i tried -par but it didnt help
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2499 2014-03-19 22:45:35 <sipa> wallet42: why do you care?
2500 2014-03-19 22:45:38 disident has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2501 2014-03-19 22:45:38 disident_ is now known as disident
2502 2014-03-19 22:45:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|IIRC if you lower those 2 options you can get down to 8-10 threads
2503 2014-03-19 22:46:05 <gmaxwell> wallet42: you can tell htop to show threads or not.
2504 2014-03-19 22:46:17 <gmaxwell> wallet42: hit H
2505 2014-03-19 22:46:28 <sipa> bitcoind forks only once (and only when using -daemon)
2506 2014-03-19 22:46:32 <sipa> what you see are threads
2507 2014-03-19 22:46:46 <wallet42> ah got it
2508 2014-03-19 22:46:50 <wallet42> thanks
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2510 2014-03-19 22:47:12 <wallet42> so threads still have pids? i didnt know that
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2514 2014-03-19 22:49:21 <sipa> they have thread ids
2515 2014-03-19 22:49:34 <sipa> which live in the same namespace as process ids, i think
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2522 2014-03-19 22:54:31 <theorbtwo> In linux, processes and threads are *very* similar.
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2538 2014-03-19 22:59:20 <sipa> threads are processes that share address space :)
2539 2014-03-19 22:59:35 <SoftwareMechanic> mostly :)
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2541 2014-03-19 23:00:16 <SoftwareMechanic> I think thread local storage makes that a grey area
2542 2014-03-19 23:01:06 <hearn> tls == global variables
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2544 2014-03-19 23:03:11 <olalonde> bitcoind -data='/data' does not seem to work
2545 2014-03-19 23:03:12 <olalonde> nothing is written to /data
2546 2014-03-19 23:03:16 e4xit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2547 2014-03-19 23:03:38 <olalonde> oops
2548 2014-03-19 23:03:42 <olalonde> typo
2549 2014-03-19 23:05:00 <SoftwareMechanic> how are tis variables protected from other threads? I always imagined MMU page-based protection.
2550 2014-03-19 23:06:22 <olalonde> would be nice if multiple bitcoind instances could share the same block data⦠has this been tried before?
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2556 2014-03-19 23:09:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|olalonde: they can
2557 2014-03-19 23:09:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Just not at the same time
2558 2014-03-19 23:09:53 <olalonde> ok
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2561 2014-03-19 23:10:46 <wallet42> olalonde: -datadir=<dir> Specify data directory
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2564 2014-03-19 23:11:42 <johba> hi guys, i need some info to parse the new "walletconflicts" property from bitcoind json rpc.
2565 2014-03-19 23:11:47 <johba> do any examples exist?
2566 2014-03-19 23:13:14 <johba> ok, got one here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3671 :D
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2575 2014-03-19 23:24:57 <tiago> michagogo|cloud, I got my signed gitian builds. Should I send someone my public key before sending a pull request to the gitian.sigs repo?
2576 2014-03-19 23:26:26 <tiago> my public key: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sNCimrFQ
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2599 2014-03-19 23:48:43 <toffoo> are there any merchants out there with "the new payments protocol" implemented so we can try it out with today's v0.9 client release?
2600 2014-03-19 23:49:04 rdymac has joined
2601 2014-03-19 23:52:09 <jgarzik> toffoo, all BitPay merchants
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2604 2014-03-19 23:54:25 <toffoo> cool, that was fast .. I look forward to trying it out, thanks! I suppose there's some synergies that come with having you right there these days
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