1 2014-03-20 00:00:21 padawan123 has joined
2 2014-03-20 00:00:49 <padawan123> the zionist cocksucker is also mod here
3 2014-03-20 00:01:10 <padawan123> did u got paid for sucking their dick?
4 2014-03-20 00:01:57 cheetah2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5 2014-03-20 00:02:37 <padawan123> let see how much time he ll need to react
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11 2014-03-20 00:07:08 <JimJones> can any one by pvt to upgrade to bitcoind 0.9 on ubuntu?
12 2014-03-20 00:07:19 <JimJones> i kinda want it to run on my 100mb server
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14 2014-03-20 00:07:51 <olalonde> is there any way to know if bitcoind has finished downloading the blockchain?
15 2014-03-20 00:08:15 Gyps has joined
16 2014-03-20 00:08:16 <Imbue> olalonde: getinfo?
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22 2014-03-20 00:08:28 <Imbue> (there could be a better way)
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24 2014-03-20 00:13:09 <venzen> olalonde: i usually tail .bitcoin/debug.log and check the date of the last block to arrive (could be a better way :)
25 2014-03-20 00:13:18 Keefe has joined
26 2014-03-20 00:15:00 <olalonde> ok
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45 2014-03-20 00:33:20 <Ghaleon> how do you keep wallet notify from firing when a change address gets credited?
46 2014-03-20 00:33:29 <Ghaleon> we have a major problem here building our wallet
47 2014-03-20 00:33:30 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
48 2014-03-20 00:33:33 <deego> Hey, if I want to 'bootstrap' a new bitcoin wallet, what files should I copy from an existing wallet? blk* ?
49 2014-03-20 00:33:52 <Ghaleon> deago... it ain't so easy
50 2014-03-20 00:33:52 <deego> Also, the contents of blocks/ subdir? I have never seen that subdir. before.
51 2014-03-20 00:34:04 <Ghaleon> checkout coinpunk
52 2014-03-20 00:34:14 Aido has quit (Quit: leaving)
53 2014-03-20 00:34:44 <sipa> deego: do you trust the location you're copying it from>?
54 2014-03-20 00:34:46 <Ghaleon> how does block chain.info choose the change address?? does it just pick a random address?
55 2014-03-20 00:34:55 derbumi has joined
56 2014-03-20 00:35:15 <deego> sipa: yes I do, just trying to create a fresh, new 0-coin wallet, and trying to save the 3-day download.
57 2014-03-20 00:35:28 <sipa> deego: then copy blocks/ and chainstate/ and nothing else
58 2014-03-20 00:35:41 <deego> sipa: ah, ok, now even blk*.dat?
59 2014-03-20 00:35:51 <sipa> deego: the blk*.dat are in blocks, so yes
60 2014-03-20 00:35:59 <sipa> Ghaleon: the correct way to do it is to generate a new address for change
61 2014-03-20 00:36:05 <Luke-Jr> Ghaleon: change should always be ⦠what sipa said
62 2014-03-20 00:36:05 Keefe has joined
63 2014-03-20 00:36:17 <sipa> and please don't just immitate b.i
64 2014-03-20 00:36:20 yubrew has joined
65 2014-03-20 00:36:27 <deego> sipa: ahh, I have older blk*.dat outside of blocks/. Guess those must be from older clients. :)
66 2014-03-20 00:36:36 <sipa> deego: you can delete those
67 2014-03-20 00:36:45 songz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
68 2014-03-20 00:36:48 <sipa> deego: since 0.8, only the ones inside blocks/ are used
69 2014-03-20 00:36:53 <Ghaleon> when you use wallet notify on bitcoind how does it select the chmage address??/ does it make a new one?
70 2014-03-20 00:37:06 <sipa> Ghaleon: that makes no sense
71 2014-03-20 00:37:15 <sipa> Ghaleon: change is created at send time
72 2014-03-20 00:37:16 <deego> sipa: thanks.
73 2014-03-20 00:37:22 <sipa> Ghaleon: it has nothing to do with wallet notify
74 2014-03-20 00:37:33 <sipa> which is to let your application know the wallet situation changed
75 2014-03-20 00:37:50 <Ghaleon> so bitcoind ALWAYS makes a new address when one of it;s addresses gets some btc?
76 2014-03-20 00:37:57 <sipa> ...
77 2014-03-20 00:38:08 <sipa> it's done at send time
78 2014-03-20 00:38:11 <sipa> not at receive time
79 2014-03-20 00:38:25 <sipa> please learn how bitcoin works before building a wallet solution
80 2014-03-20 00:38:27 <Ghaleon> the sender makes a New address for the change?
81 2014-03-20 00:38:29 eristisk has joined
82 2014-03-20 00:38:42 <Ghaleon> that is what I here for, learnin
83 2014-03-20 00:38:52 <sipa> when sending through bitcoind using the send* RPCs, yes
84 2014-03-20 00:38:52 <Ghaleon> i am just starting and this is my project
85 2014-03-20 00:39:23 <Ghaleon> ok
86 2014-03-20 00:39:31 <Ghaleon> i am working on a bitcoind wallet project now
87 2014-03-20 00:39:51 <sipa> which will store other people's money?
88 2014-03-20 00:40:12 Eiii has quit ()
89 2014-03-20 00:40:20 <Ghaleon> was using block chain.info and giving folks a receive address , but when people were sending to an address on it, another user would get credited their funds as it would pick a random address on our account to send the change too
90 2014-03-20 00:40:41 <Ghaleon> it would then fire a callback and our system would credit the random user with getting the change, which they should NOT be getting
91 2014-03-20 00:40:43 <Ghaleon> make sense
92 2014-03-20 00:40:45 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
93 2014-03-20 00:40:53 <Ghaleon> this is for our internal use
94 2014-03-20 00:41:19 <sipa> always use a new receive address for every transaction
95 2014-03-20 00:41:39 <Ghaleon> this is for people sending us funds
96 2014-03-20 00:42:04 <sipa> well, there you should at least encourage using a new address for every transaction
97 2014-03-20 00:42:07 <deego> Is there a tutorial/howto on how to create your own paper wallet, without using any third party website?
98 2014-03-20 00:42:09 <sipa> you can't enforce that, of course
99 2014-03-20 00:42:25 <sipa> deego: use software that supports it, like armory
100 2014-03-20 00:42:49 Ghaleon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
101 2014-03-20 00:42:50 <Luke-Jr> Armory ftw, for paper wallets
102 2014-03-20 00:43:31 Ghaleon_ has joined
103 2014-03-20 00:43:46 <deego> Luke-Jr, sipa: thanks.
104 2014-03-20 00:45:58 eristisk has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
105 2014-03-20 00:47:21 <Ghaleon_> back
106 2014-03-20 00:47:57 <Ghaleon_> blockchain.info is sending callbacks when a random address in our wallet gets some change..... how does it pick a random change address ?
107 2014-03-20 00:48:19 <Ghaleon_> it is messing everything up because random users are getting credited the change from other peoples recieves
108 2014-03-20 00:48:25 <Ghaleon_> has anyone experienced this?
109 2014-03-20 00:48:45 <Luke-Jr> Ghaleon_: have you considered BitPay, or some other more reputable processor?
110 2014-03-20 00:49:09 <Ghaleon_> I am hoping bitcoind itself will NOT do this and it is just a bug with blockchain.info not being designed for multiple accounts in a single wallet
111 2014-03-20 00:49:31 <Ghaleon_> i got up bitcoind now and will be using wallet notify
112 2014-03-20 00:51:17 <sipa> Ghaleon_: to distinguish change from other outputs, you need to know the wallet
113 2014-03-20 00:51:19 Imbue has joined
114 2014-03-20 00:51:28 <sipa> Ghaleon_: so you can recognize it as a send to self
115 2014-03-20 00:51:29 <Ghaleon_> know the wallet?
116 2014-03-20 00:51:37 <sipa> know all address in it
117 2014-03-20 00:51:45 <sipa> including change addresses
118 2014-03-20 00:52:05 <Ghaleon_> yes but how do we distinguish between a send from outside... and a send to itself?
119 2014-03-20 00:52:18 <Ghaleon_> blockchain.info does NOT include the FROM address
120 2014-03-20 00:53:00 <arubi> sipa, actually that's an interesting question (for me), transactions to change addresses do not require fees right?
121 2014-03-20 00:53:01 ziggamon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
122 2014-03-20 00:53:19 <sipa> arubi: of course they do
123 2014-03-20 00:53:26 <sipa> arubi: the network cannot distinguish them
124 2014-03-20 00:53:42 <Imbue> change addresses are a client-level construct
125 2014-03-20 00:53:54 <Ghaleon_> so how do we figure out it is a change address and disregard the callback ???
126 2014-03-20 00:53:54 <arubi> ah, I learned something new today
127 2014-03-20 00:54:43 <sipa> Ghaleon_: by knowing
128 2014-03-20 00:55:01 <sipa> Ghaleon_: the bitcoind wallet receiving the transaction will know it is change
129 2014-03-20 00:55:14 <Ghaleon_> ok
130 2014-03-20 00:55:15 <Ghaleon_> so
131 2014-03-20 00:55:30 <sipa> so listtransactions or listinceblock or whathever you are using to sync bitcoind's state with your applications, will just ignore it
132 2014-03-20 00:55:46 hanti is now known as HANTI
133 2014-03-20 00:55:49 <Ghaleon_> basically it is impossible to runs multilevel wallet with blockchain.info ...api because it is impossible to know the difference between and external receive and a change
134 2014-03-20 00:56:13 <sipa> what are you using b.i for?
135 2014-03-20 00:56:26 <Ghaleon_> ou must setup your own bitcoind and use wallet notify.... when you lookup the txid what do you look for to figure out that it is change?
136 2014-03-20 00:56:41 raid5 has joined
137 2014-03-20 00:56:57 <Ghaleon_> was using blockchcian.info to host wallets for our interal service using one wallet account. each of us gets an address
138 2014-03-20 00:57:16 <arubi> Ghaleon_, the wallet itself signs the tx that make it into the change address, so it knows before it's even broadcasted
139 2014-03-20 00:57:33 <arubi> sipa, i think he's making something like a "parental controlled" wallet
140 2014-03-20 00:57:40 <arubi> but I may be wrong
141 2014-03-20 00:57:51 <sipa> Ghaleon_: it's generally a bad idea to mix address-level abstraction with wallet-level abstraction
142 2014-03-20 00:58:13 <sipa> bitcoind gives you a wallet-level abstraction
143 2014-03-20 00:58:17 <Ghaleon_> something like that arubi... but it seems a single blockchain.info account cannot be used for each a function because it fires callbacks on internal sends
144 2014-03-20 00:58:22 <Ghaleon_> changes
145 2014-03-20 00:58:26 <sipa> so, filter them out?
146 2014-03-20 00:58:27 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
147 2014-03-20 00:58:35 eristisk has joined
148 2014-03-20 00:58:37 <sipa> you can look at the output scripts
149 2014-03-20 00:58:45 <sipa> if they're to a change adress, it's change
150 2014-03-20 00:58:50 <arubi> yep ^^, you should know the change address before the tx broadcasts
151 2014-03-20 00:58:52 <Ghaleon_> som when using bitcoind wallet notify it will not fire on change address right?
152 2014-03-20 00:59:42 <Ghaleon_> what if the btc is coming from the outside.... i am using wallet notify to send my script the txid... we then lookup the tx id and figure out which address in the wallet for the btc
153 2014-03-20 00:59:54 <Ghaleon_> that is the system I am building now
154 2014-03-20 01:00:00 eristisk has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
155 2014-03-20 01:00:01 <sipa> the "transactions" that bitcoind wallet reports are "balance of wallet changes"
156 2014-03-20 01:00:04 <Ghaleon_> will it do ?
157 2014-03-20 01:00:08 <sipa> they are not "bitcoin transactions"
158 2014-03-20 01:00:16 <sipa> transfers within the wallet are not balance changes
159 2014-03-20 01:00:40 <Ghaleon_> so wallet notify will only report btc coming in from the outside... not any internal change ?
160 2014-03-20 01:01:02 <sipa> that's an irrelevant question
161 2014-03-20 01:01:11 <sipa> walletnotify notifies when there is change
162 2014-03-20 01:01:21 <sipa> but change is always within a transaction that has non-change too
163 2014-03-20 01:01:26 benten has joined
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165 2014-03-20 01:01:44 <sipa> but the listtransaction or gettransaction or listsinceblock or whatever RPC you do following walletnotify will show balance changes
166 2014-03-20 01:01:50 benten is now known as Guest2138
167 2014-03-20 01:02:48 <Ghaleon_> wallet notify fires when there is a CHANGE to an address inside your wallet...... but NOT when change is sent internally. right?
168 2014-03-20 01:03:02 volante has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
169 2014-03-20 01:03:31 <Imbue> 'change is sent internally' does not really make sense to me
170 2014-03-20 01:03:45 <arubi> there has to be a change of balance to create change
171 2014-03-20 01:04:03 <[\\\]> I don't know if this constitutes a bug, but I figure its an artefact of the build system
172 2014-03-20 01:04:14 JessicaS has joined
173 2014-03-20 01:04:19 <Ghaleon_> the whole thing is mess
174 2014-03-20 01:04:21 <[\\\]> all of the Windows .9 x64 files are timestamped may 31/2013
175 2014-03-20 01:05:26 volante_ is now known as volante
176 2014-03-20 01:05:55 <volante> does anyone know of a simple command line utility that can securely generate BIP32 wallets?
177 2014-03-20 01:06:12 <SoftwareMechanic> pycoin can do it
178 2014-03-20 01:06:18 <SoftwareMechanic> genwallet
179 2014-03-20 01:07:23 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
180 2014-03-20 01:09:05 <volante> ok thanks ill check it out
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182 2014-03-20 01:09:11 <venzen> so i compiled the master branch from Git and got a yellow banner 0.9.0rc2 - is that expected atm?
183 2014-03-20 01:09:27 <Imbue> venzen: yes; 0.9.0 is not master
184 2014-03-20 01:09:36 <Imbue> venzen: there is a 0.9.0 branch
185 2014-03-20 01:10:13 <Imbue> well. the yellow banner is normal. rc2 is a bit odd (i actually had the same issue, forgot to checkout)
186 2014-03-20 01:11:02 <venzen> so not master but 0.9.0 - ok thanks Imbue - back to grinding stone then...
187 2014-03-20 01:11:36 <sipa> Ghaleon_: walletnotify is about transactions, not about outputs
188 2014-03-20 01:11:41 <sipa> Ghaleon_: your question is irrelevant
189 2014-03-20 01:12:01 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds)
190 2014-03-20 01:12:22 <sipa> Ghaleon_: but the typical bitcoind wallet RPCs will deal correctly with change
191 2014-03-20 01:14:07 Keefe has joined
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193 2014-03-20 01:16:23 <Ghaleon_> ok, Sipa
194 2014-03-20 01:16:26 <Ghaleon_> thank you
195 2014-03-20 01:16:46 <Ghaleon_> Walletnotify fires twice right? first on 0 confirms raw broadcast.. and then on 6 confirms?
196 2014-03-20 01:17:39 eristisk has joined
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198 2014-03-20 01:18:15 <sipa> no, once when it's first seen, and once when it's in a block
199 2014-03-20 01:18:20 <sipa> but you shouldn't count on that
200 2014-03-20 01:18:37 <sipa> just see walletnotify as a message "i should check whether this transaction's state changed"
201 2014-03-20 01:18:40 eristisk has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
202 2014-03-20 01:19:01 <Ghaleon_> so when it is in a block you can safely say that it is LEGIT right?
203 2014-03-20 01:19:07 eristisk has joined
204 2014-03-20 01:19:25 <arubi> that's what we're all betting on Ghaleon_ :)
205 2014-03-20 01:19:36 <Ghaleon_> ok
206 2014-03-20 01:19:38 <jrick> legit at the time, maybe not legit later after reorg
207 2014-03-20 01:20:00 <sipa> Ghaleon_: depends
208 2014-03-20 01:20:12 <sipa> for selling a house, i would probably wait for 100 confirmations
209 2014-03-20 01:20:21 <sipa> for selling a coffe, i would probably not wait at all
210 2014-03-20 01:20:29 <Ghaleon_> so I want to setup the right protocol... for handling these walletotify alerts, one the first one i make a record and set confirmations to zero.... one the second one i get the transaction info and get the # of confirmations and update the record...
211 2014-03-20 01:20:43 eristisk has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
212 2014-03-20 01:20:43 <Ghaleon_> yes, sips good point
213 2014-03-20 01:20:50 <sipa> Ghaleon_: you _always_ get the transaction info and synchronize
214 2014-03-20 01:21:00 <Ghaleon_> so basically we MUST move our system off blockchain.info and onto our own bitcoind rig right now
215 2014-03-20 01:21:03 <Ghaleon_> i have it going
216 2014-03-20 01:21:38 B0g4r7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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223 2014-03-20 01:29:44 <venzen> Imbue: i checked out 0.9.0 and git told me "Already up-to-date", so either the same thing happened as with the OSX issue earlier or 0.9.0 is actually 0.9.0rc2 in github
224 2014-03-20 01:30:10 <Imbue> venzen: did you checkout the commit tag?
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228 2014-03-20 01:30:40 <venzen> you mean: git checkout 0.9.0 ?
229 2014-03-20 01:30:43 <Imbue> i.e. git checkout 92d25....etc
230 2014-03-20 01:30:51 <venzen> hmm the tag
231 2014-03-20 01:31:08 <sipa> you need to do checkout v0.9.0
232 2014-03-20 01:31:13 <sipa> 0.9.0 is a branch
233 2014-03-20 01:31:27 antephialtic has joined
234 2014-03-20 01:31:31 <Imbue> the branch is at the same commit so it's interesting that it didn't work for you.
235 2014-03-20 01:31:46 <sipa> checkout <branch> just switching to that branch. locally
236 2014-03-20 01:31:50 <sipa> it doesn't update anything
237 2014-03-20 01:32:00 <Imbue> ah
238 2014-03-20 01:32:08 <Imbue> <-- gitnoob :P
239 2014-03-20 01:34:12 B0g4r7_ has joined
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241 2014-03-20 01:35:04 <Ghaleon_> they banned me from bit coin, for posting a pic of a brazilian lady... her booty was too big for them. anti big booty racism
242 2014-03-20 01:35:07 volante has quit (Ping timeout: 269 seconds)
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245 2014-03-20 01:35:21 <venzen> nice
246 2014-03-20 01:35:23 oPen_syLar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
247 2014-03-20 01:35:26 <Ghaleon_> no matter. I shall now upgrade to bit coin 0.9.0 hats off to the hardest working debs on the planet
248 2014-03-20 01:35:27 <venzen> i did it right:
249 2014-03-20 01:35:28 <venzen> git merge 0.9.0 92d25e4eebbc20c4b056faeab688b2cef5790bac
250 2014-03-20 01:35:39 B0g4r7_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
251 2014-03-20 01:36:00 <venzen> and a cowboy says: Already up-to-date. Yeeah!
252 2014-03-20 01:36:28 <kadoban> venzen: ...what are you merging? you should just git checkout v0.9.0, and if you don't have that tag, fetch it first
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256 2014-03-20 01:38:45 <miseria> "estoy solo en mi balcon, el viento acaricia mi rostro pero se lleva mi alma a viajar con las hojas secas que pasan y pasan" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
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273 2014-03-20 01:51:22 <sipa> venzen: git pull should suffice :)
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277 2014-03-20 01:52:46 <anton000> will stay on 8.6.0 for a bit.... linux gclib issues lol
278 2014-03-20 01:53:35 <Luke-Jr> lol 8.6.0
279 2014-03-20 01:53:41 Ghaleon_ has quit (Quit: Ghaleon_)
280 2014-03-20 01:53:44 <anton000> .8.6
281 2014-03-20 01:53:47 <Luke-Jr> you have that a bit backward. we don't even have 1.0 yet :P
282 2014-03-20 01:53:49 <anton000> 0.8.6
283 2014-03-20 01:54:10 <anton000> bastard luke... hahahah just woke up
284 2014-03-20 01:54:20 <justanotheruser> 8.6.0 deciversions
285 2014-03-20 01:54:21 <anton000> *i just woke up
286 2014-03-20 01:54:30 * anton000 slaps Luke-Jr around a bit with a large trout
287 2014-03-20 01:54:38 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: no :P
288 2014-03-20 01:54:53 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: that just furthers the confusion of people who think versions are decimal numbers
289 2014-03-20 01:55:06 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: true.
290 2014-03-20 01:55:24 <sipa> sooo... when we have 0.10.0, that'll be the same as 1.0.0 ?
291 2014-03-20 01:56:05 drayah has joined
292 2014-03-20 01:56:28 <jgarzik> sipa, split the wallet into a separate project, remove the beta label, call the pieces left on the floor "1.0"
293 2014-03-20 01:56:29 <jgarzik> ;p
294 2014-03-20 01:56:46 <sipa> and from there on have diverging version numbers
295 2014-03-20 01:56:53 <justanotheruser> What is the conversion from the getinfo version to the actual version? Replace even digits with dots?
296 2014-03-20 01:57:07 <justanotheruser> 80600 -> .8.6
297 2014-03-20 01:57:10 <Luke-Jr> â¦
298 2014-03-20 01:57:16 <Luke-Jr> insert if you don't want to break 0.10
299 2014-03-20 01:57:30 <sipa> justanotheruser: aabbccdd = aa.bb.cc.dd
300 2014-03-20 01:57:57 <sipa> so 12045608 would be 12.4.56.8
301 2014-03-20 01:58:00 <justanotheruser> sipa: 8.0.6.0?
302 2014-03-20 01:58:04 <sipa> yes
303 2014-03-20 01:58:07 <sipa> no
304 2014-03-20 01:58:16 <sipa> 0.8.6.0
305 2014-03-20 01:58:24 <jgarzik> starting to smell like Oracle version numbers
306 2014-03-20 01:58:32 <jgarzik> need a 5th
307 2014-03-20 01:58:33 <sipa> as long as it's not ldap oids
308 2014-03-20 01:58:45 <jgarzik> hehe
309 2014-03-20 01:58:45 <justanotheruser> sipa: how do you signify that the first digit isn't 0?
310 2014-03-20 01:58:52 <sipa> justanotheruser: it is
311 2014-03-20 01:58:52 <jgarzik> don't use a zero
312 2014-03-20 01:59:02 <justanotheruser> sipa: how do you signify that the first digit isn't 0 if it wasn't?
313 2014-03-20 01:59:11 <sipa> don't use 0 there?
314 2014-03-20 01:59:21 <sipa> sheesh
315 2014-03-20 01:59:23 <justanotheruser> sipa: It isn't used there in 80600
316 2014-03-20 01:59:39 <sipa> justanotheruser: give me a version and i'll tell you the corresponding number
317 2014-03-20 01:59:42 Zoop_ has joined
318 2014-03-20 01:59:50 <justanotheruser> sipa: 1.8.6.0
319 2014-03-20 01:59:58 <sipa> 1080600
320 2014-03-20 02:00:07 drayah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
321 2014-03-20 02:00:12 <justanotheruser> So my original statement was close
322 2014-03-20 02:00:18 <sipa> no
323 2014-03-20 02:00:26 <sipa> dots aren't encoded at all
324 2014-03-20 02:00:32 <sipa> (just happens to be true in this case)
325 2014-03-20 02:00:45 <sipa> but 1.18.6.0 would be 1180600
326 2014-03-20 02:00:47 <Luke-Jr> wtf
327 2014-03-20 02:00:50 spr4wl_org has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
328 2014-03-20 02:00:51 <Luke-Jr> how hard is this
329 2014-03-20 02:00:54 <sipa> yeah
330 2014-03-20 02:00:57 <sipa> #bitcoin please :)
331 2014-03-20 02:01:32 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: W.X.Y.Z; Z = N % 100; Y = (N / 100) % 100; X = (N / 10000) % 100; W = (N / 1000000) % 100
332 2014-03-20 02:01:33 <justanotheruser> Heh, I just didn't know how it was defined
333 2014-03-20 02:01:43 <sipa> 02:56:21 < sipa> justanotheruser: aabbccdd = aa.bb.cc.dd
334 2014-03-20 02:01:47 <sipa> = all you nee dto know
335 2014-03-20 02:02:17 <justanotheruser> sipa: oh, I didn't realize that there could only be 2 digits between dots, but I see how I should have understood that
336 2014-03-20 02:04:16 <anton000> lol... that escalated quickly
337 2014-03-20 02:05:36 p11 has joined
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341 2014-03-20 02:06:12 <sipa> justanotheruser: so currently git master is 0.9.99 (aka pre-0.10.0) at 99900, 0.10.0 will be 100000
342 2014-03-20 02:06:33 uiop has joined
343 2014-03-20 02:07:31 <justanotheruser> sipa: I see. It is *really* simple when I understand that you can only have two digits per dot
344 2014-03-20 02:07:41 <justanotheruser> or between dots I mean
345 2014-03-20 02:08:14 Coincidental has joined
346 2014-03-20 02:08:21 felipelalli_ is now known as felipelalli
347 2014-03-20 02:08:30 <justanotheruser> sipa: Is there anywhere I can read the requirements for Bitcoin to be in 1.X.X? Or are they not defined?
348 2014-03-20 02:08:53 <sipa> justanotheruser: when Gavin thinks his grandmother should use it
349 2014-03-20 02:08:56 p111 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
350 2014-03-20 02:09:01 <anton000> lol
351 2014-03-20 02:09:04 <anton000> hahahaha
352 2014-03-20 02:09:10 <sipa> that's the only hard requirement i've ever heard
353 2014-03-20 02:10:05 <justanotheruser> sounds fair. I wonder what the community will think when we are at 0.10.X. I (and many others probably) assumed we were close to the first 1.X release.
354 2014-03-20 02:10:45 <sipa> i agree that 0.10 sounds much further from 1.0 than 0.9 does
355 2014-03-20 02:10:59 <sipa> but it's the logical successor
356 2014-03-20 02:11:46 KawalGrover has joined
357 2014-03-20 02:11:49 <justanotheruser> yes. I think it is better to do 1.X when it is completely ready than force it though.
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362 2014-03-20 02:26:44 <ystarnaud> running into an odd issue... whenever i run bitcoind i get "bitcoind: key.cpp:134: <unnamed>::CECKey::CECKey(): Assertion `pkey != __null' failed. Aborted (core dumped)". This happened after running out of space for the blockchain. I wiped everything and recompiled from scratch using 0.9.0 and still happens. Anybody has any idea what it could be?
363 2014-03-20 02:26:45 KawalGrover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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368 2014-03-20 02:33:04 <venzen> ystarnaud: did you re-download the BC ?
369 2014-03-20 02:33:16 <ystarnaud> yeah i wiped the whole directory
370 2014-03-20 02:33:18 <ystarnaud> well
371 2014-03-20 02:33:21 <ystarnaud> it didnt get that far
372 2014-03-20 02:33:27 <ystarnaud> it core dumps right away
373 2014-03-20 02:33:57 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
374 2014-03-20 02:34:36 <ystarnaud> db.log is empty... debug.log's last line is "2014-03-20 02:29:14 Performing wallet upgrade to 60000" on an empty wallet.dat btw
375 2014-03-20 02:34:55 <venzen> ystarnaud: trying to understand your sequence of actions... delete the .bitcoin data directory, recompile, start, and then a segfault?
376 2014-03-20 02:35:05 <ystarnaud> yep
377 2014-03-20 02:35:57 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
378 2014-03-20 02:36:04 <venzen> well that is strange - do you have another machine to compile on?
379 2014-03-20 02:36:20 spinza has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
380 2014-03-20 02:36:23 ziggamon has joined
381 2014-03-20 02:36:25 <ystarnaud> not currently no
382 2014-03-20 02:36:35 spinza has joined
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384 2014-03-20 02:37:09 <venzen> someone here may have encountered this before and help us out, but it seems to me to be a hardware issue - either memory or disk
385 2014-03-20 02:37:37 <venzen> that is if you're 100% positive you deleted the data dir
386 2014-03-20 02:38:25 <ystarnaud> yeah i rm -rf /root/.bitcoin (after making a copy that is...)
387 2014-03-20 02:39:34 <venzen> maybe try compiling again as a regular user, and use that same user account to run bitcoind
388 2014-03-20 02:40:09 spinza has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
389 2014-03-20 02:40:11 <venzen> also: make sure you've backed up your wallet :)
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432 2014-03-20 03:26:21 <dexX7> what height and time are those fields referring to in a verbosed getrawmempool result?
433 2014-03-20 03:26:59 <sipa> i presume the height and time at which the transaction was received
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437 2014-03-20 03:28:49 <dexX7> ty for the confirmation
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463 2014-03-20 03:49:35 <ystarnaud> ok i finally found a solution... im running on centos 6.2 and because of some licensing bullcrap secp256k1 is not included on fedora/centos openssl
464 2014-03-20 03:50:40 <ystarnaud> not sure why it suddenly stopped working but i found a patch for key.cpp buried deep in forums that corrected the problem
465 2014-03-20 03:50:47 <Luke-Jr> ystarnaud: not exactly; because *redhat's lawyers* haven't *verified* there's no licensing crapâ¦
466 2014-03-20 03:51:19 <ystarnaud> well i dont know the exact details but yeah
467 2014-03-20 03:52:00 <ystarnaud> weird that it used to work fine though
468 2014-03-20 03:52:45 pooler has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
469 2014-03-20 03:53:23 <Luke-Jr> ystarnaud: wait, are you using the official binary?
470 2014-03-20 03:53:28 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
471 2014-03-20 03:53:31 <ystarnaud> of?
472 2014-03-20 03:53:33 pooler has joined
473 2014-03-20 03:54:41 <sipa> if he's talking about key.cpp, he's clearly building from source
474 2014-03-20 03:54:55 <ystarnaud> yeah i got bitcoin off github and compiled it myself
475 2014-03-20 03:54:58 <ystarnaud> always have
476 2014-03-20 03:55:11 <sipa> that never should have worked...
477 2014-03-20 03:55:11 bbrian has joined
478 2014-03-20 03:55:17 petcat has joined
479 2014-03-20 03:55:24 <sipa> rh never had secp256k1 in their openssl afaik
480 2014-03-20 03:55:42 <sipa> so you were at least using a custom openssl too?
481 2014-03-20 03:55:50 <ystarnaud> yeah thats the weird part... it always ran fine until i ran out of space then it was an issue at runtime
482 2014-03-20 03:55:59 <venzen> ystarnaud: strange, and you're not even RHEL - and they come bother all the way over in Centos... tsk tsk... glad it's solved though - just be mindful of running things as root - you know the reasons...
483 2014-03-20 03:56:18 <sipa> how is that relevant?
484 2014-03-20 03:56:32 <venzen> Redhat...
485 2014-03-20 03:56:37 uiop_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
486 2014-03-20 03:56:39 <venzen> ystarnaud: is in Centos
487 2014-03-20 03:56:46 <ystarnaud> i dont recall installing openssl myself but i might have a long time ago... i tried to update openssl from yum tonight trying to resolve the issue
488 2014-03-20 03:56:57 <sipa> won't help
489 2014-03-20 03:57:04 rdymac has joined
490 2014-03-20 03:57:56 <ystarnaud> yeah it didnt help lol
491 2014-03-20 03:58:09 <venzen> why, sipa ? is it incompatible?
492 2014-03-20 03:58:26 <ystarnaud> i tried to compile openssl from scratch too and still didnt work until i patched the file
493 2014-03-20 03:59:11 Soligor has quit (Quit: Soligor)
494 2014-03-20 03:59:35 <Luke-Jr> venzen: RedHat's OpenSSL is "special" (neutered)
495 2014-03-20 03:59:37 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
496 2014-03-20 03:59:48 richcollins has quit (Quit: richcollins)
497 2014-03-20 04:00:02 <venzen> hehe, ouch
498 2014-03-20 04:01:17 m104 has joined
499 2014-03-20 04:03:39 wallet42 has joined
500 2014-03-20 04:03:43 <sipa> there is some repository with an ec-enabled openssl
501 2014-03-20 04:03:52 <sipa> warren probably knows more
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505 2014-03-20 04:06:54 <dizko> hrm...0.9.0 with wallet disabled has slightly smaller resident memory footprint, but it's allocated like 10-20% more virtual memory than 0.8.5
506 2014-03-20 04:07:13 CBit has joined
507 2014-03-20 04:07:31 <venzen> ystarnaud: sipa's suggestion is one way and you could run a different linux in a VM to compile and host Bitcoin Core?
508 2014-03-20 04:13:10 yubrew has joined
509 2014-03-20 04:13:40 <warren> sipa: who needs it?
510 2014-03-20 04:14:14 <warren> sipa: might be easier for them to use https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364877.0
511 2014-03-20 04:14:19 smash_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
512 2014-03-20 04:14:23 <warren> sipa: I do have packages for Fedora 19 and 20 of openssl with ec
513 2014-03-20 04:14:39 <sipa> dizko: virtual memory? don't care much
514 2014-03-20 04:14:49 <sipa> dizko: resident memory is what matters
515 2014-03-20 04:15:51 <dizko> sipa: so long as you have swap ;)
516 2014-03-20 04:16:50 <sipa> dizko: not really
517 2014-03-20 04:17:02 <sipa> muvh virtual memory is unused stack space
518 2014-03-20 04:17:10 <sipa> which needs neither ram or swap
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522 2014-03-20 04:19:06 <sipa> warren: ystarnaud
523 2014-03-20 04:19:24 <dizko> mmap(NULL, 25165824, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = -1 ENOMEM (Cannot allocate memory)
524 2014-03-20 04:19:48 <sipa> well you can always run out of course
525 2014-03-20 04:20:08 <sipa> i just mean that it's not necessary to have ram or swap to back all virtual memory
526 2014-03-20 04:20:12 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
527 2014-03-20 04:20:15 <dizko> its fine, i can have a swap file, was just glad to hear about the nowallet option memory saving as i run a number of very small public relays
528 2014-03-20 04:20:23 TheSeven has joined
529 2014-03-20 04:20:24 <sipa> cool
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533 2014-03-20 04:29:26 <warren> ystarnaud: http://wtogami.blogspot.com/2013/05/openssl-with-ecdsa-for-fedora-18.html
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546 2014-03-20 04:43:32 <felipelalli> Guys, here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/files.md#only-used-in-pre-080
547 2014-03-20 04:43:42 <felipelalli> what is the difference between pre-0.8.0 and before 0.8.0 ?
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569 2014-03-20 05:04:44 <JohnKenney> i noticed my new build of bitcoind uses much more ram too
570 2014-03-20 05:05:02 <JohnKenney> ~900mb resident
571 2014-03-20 05:05:33 <JohnKenney> self compiled on ubuntu 13.10
572 2014-03-20 05:05:36 Aido has joined
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576 2014-03-20 05:07:04 <JohnKenney> i've been building from github, so some recent change caused it
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579 2014-03-20 05:09:15 <JohnKenney> not sure exactly how much it was using before, but less than that
580 2014-03-20 05:11:01 Ursium has quit (Quit: Ursium)
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585 2014-03-20 05:16:34 <JohnKenney> i don't know which commit could possibly have caused it though, something since the 14th i think
586 2014-03-20 05:17:15 <JohnKenney> unless it's just me
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591 2014-03-20 05:18:39 <dizko> once mine got connected up its got as much rss as before even with wallet disabled
592 2014-03-20 05:18:43 <dizko> about 420mb
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594 2014-03-20 05:19:08 <felipelalli> Guys, here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/files.md#only-used-in-pre-080 what is the difference between pre-0.8.0 and before 0.8.0 ?
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597 2014-03-20 05:23:19 <sipa> felipelalli: it was only used in some pre-release version, but changed before 0.8 was done
598 2014-03-20 05:23:29 Diapolis has quit ()
599 2014-03-20 05:23:33 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
600 2014-03-20 05:23:35 <felipelalli> thank you @sipa !
601 2014-03-20 05:24:14 <BlueMatt> why is sipa awake at this ungodly hour?
602 2014-03-20 05:24:30 <BlueMatt> hell, its not even a reasonable in cet....
603 2014-03-20 05:26:15 Applicat_ has joined
604 2014-03-20 05:29:07 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
605 2014-03-20 05:29:59 <venzen> kadoban sipa: can you believe that a person can achieve all i have done, and never had to do more than a "git clone ..." in the process? Fetched, compiled and running a GUI Coar and a barebones (minus wallet) version on a VPS... fantastic.
606 2014-03-20 05:31:21 etotheipi_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
607 2014-03-20 05:37:32 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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611 2014-03-20 05:43:15 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead]
612 2014-03-20 05:45:29 etotheipi_ has joined
613 2014-03-20 05:50:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: still in pacific time :)
614 2014-03-20 05:51:27 <sipa> being awake at 11pm should be allowed, imho
615 2014-03-20 05:56:11 petcat has joined
616 2014-03-20 05:56:29 m104 has quit (Quit: brb)
617 2014-03-20 05:56:32 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser
618 2014-03-20 05:57:01 uiop has joined
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621 2014-03-20 05:58:31 uiop has joined
622 2014-03-20 05:59:05 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
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625 2014-03-20 06:00:33 Ursium has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
626 2014-03-20 06:00:39 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
627 2014-03-20 06:00:49 roidster has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.22.1/20131113180422])
628 2014-03-20 06:01:26 yubrew has joined
629 2014-03-20 06:02:25 disident has joined
630 2014-03-20 06:02:47 m104 has joined
631 2014-03-20 06:03:16 AtashiCon has joined
632 2014-03-20 06:04:39 rasmuzen has joined
633 2014-03-20 06:05:57 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
634 2014-03-20 06:06:50 <rasmuzen> can many different private keys all be hashed to a single bitcoin address?
635 2014-03-20 06:07:09 iuyiujh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
636 2014-03-20 06:07:10 <beachandbytes> no
637 2014-03-20 06:07:49 <beachandbytes> private keys are not hashed to create bitcoin addresses
638 2014-03-20 06:09:29 <rasmuzen> ...you sure?
639 2014-03-20 06:09:31 RoboTeddy has joined
640 2014-03-20 06:09:43 <kadoban> rasmuzen: Do you mean something like, are there theoretically several different keypairs that would all correspond to the same address? Then I think yes.
641 2014-03-20 06:10:45 Cryo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
642 2014-03-20 06:10:52 <rasmuzen> does that mean that any private key that corresponds to the address will be able to sign a transaction?
643 2014-03-20 06:11:39 <beachandbytes> public keys are hasked to create the address not the private key
644 2014-03-20 06:12:16 <rasmuzen> beachandbytes: what's your point?
645 2014-03-20 06:12:18 <beachandbytes> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Technical_background_of_version_1_Bitcoin_addresses
646 2014-03-20 06:12:48 <beachandbytes> you asked if diff private keys can be hashed to create a single btc address
647 2014-03-20 06:12:55 <beachandbytes> that is a misunderstanding of how it works
648 2014-03-20 06:13:09 ziggamon has joined
649 2014-03-20 06:13:14 Belkaar has joined
650 2014-03-20 06:13:31 <kadoban> rasmuzen: I am 99% sure it's a yes to your previous question.
651 2014-03-20 06:13:39 antephialtic has joined
652 2014-03-20 06:13:57 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
653 2014-03-20 06:14:30 <kadoban> rasmuzen: to spend, you need to provide a pubKey, so I think any pubKey that hashed the same would work
654 2014-03-20 06:14:53 johba has quit (Quit: johba)
655 2014-03-20 06:15:02 <kadoban> in practice...good luck finding another one though
656 2014-03-20 06:15:14 m104 has quit (Quit: brb)
657 2014-03-20 06:16:00 iuyiujh has joined
658 2014-03-20 06:16:57 petcat has joined
659 2014-03-20 06:17:56 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
660 2014-03-20 06:18:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Iirc I did the math and each address has octillions of privkeys
661 2014-03-20 06:19:44 <kadoban> nice
662 2014-03-20 06:20:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: ohh, yea...I suppose 23 is ok
663 2014-03-20 06:21:09 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
664 2014-03-20 06:24:20 wateratosthenes has joined
665 2014-03-20 06:25:11 <sipa> ;;calc 2**96
666 2014-03-20 06:25:11 <gribble> 79228162514264337593543950336
667 2014-03-20 06:25:36 <sipa> ^ on averge, that many privkeys per address
668 2014-03-20 06:25:46 <sipa> howver:
669 2014-03-20 06:25:54 mrkent has joined
670 2014-03-20 06:25:54 mrkent has quit (Changing host)
671 2014-03-20 06:25:54 mrkent has joined
672 2014-03-20 06:26:05 <sipa> ;;calc 2**160
673 2014-03-20 06:26:05 <gribble> 1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976
674 2014-03-20 06:26:08 RoboTedd_ has joined
675 2014-03-20 06:26:26 <sipa> ^ only one in that many keys corresponds to a given address
676 2014-03-20 06:26:44 <Luke-Jr> wow, that number is smaller than I expected :P
677 2014-03-20 06:26:52 <kadoban> haha
678 2014-03-20 06:27:04 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i suggest increasing your font size
679 2014-03-20 06:27:21 <sipa> or decreasing your number base :p
680 2014-03-20 06:27:27 <Luke-Jr> btw, it's exactly 1,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000 in tonal
681 2014-03-20 06:27:48 ybin has joined
682 2014-03-20 06:28:02 <antephialtic> but what is it in base 17?
683 2014-03-20 06:28:05 iuyiujh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
684 2014-03-20 06:28:25 <Luke-Jr> antephialtic: 189BF302G7G3F0EFCE3F9CDE76CD07FECBEE8CB1
685 2014-03-20 06:28:58 <sipa> antephialtic: in what base is that number 17?
686 2014-03-20 06:29:30 * Luke-Jr ponders
687 2014-03-20 06:29:37 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
688 2014-03-20 06:29:54 <sipa> to make things easyg for luke, we should interpret that 17 as if in base 9
689 2014-03-20 06:30:21 RoboTedd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
690 2014-03-20 06:30:23 <Luke-Jr> <.<
691 2014-03-20 06:31:02 <Luke-Jr> 22111200212110210121112201221101020201211222202211202222010210002111111201101120221012122101022002021 looks longer.
692 2014-03-20 06:31:16 <Luke-Jr> of course, there's always 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
693 2014-03-20 06:31:34 Guest28702 is now known as benten
694 2014-03-20 06:31:37 benten has quit (Changing host)
695 2014-03-20 06:31:37 benten has joined
696 2014-03-20 06:32:09 <Luke-Jr> or dozenal: 496653â°ï¿½ï¿½15â°95867701865716816â°05998��830â°ï¿½ï¿½59â°14
697 2014-03-20 06:32:11 <antephialtic> sipa: good question. let me be more specific. under the standard set theoretic construction of the natural numbers, {{}, {{}}, {{{}}}}, ..
698 2014-03-20 06:32:21 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
699 2014-03-20 06:32:23 * Luke-Jr wonders if he should take the time to add � to his font >.>
700 2014-03-20 06:32:43 <justanotheruser> In base 1 please
701 2014-03-20 06:33:10 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: that gets too long for IRC
702 2014-03-20 06:33:20 coingenuity has joined
703 2014-03-20 06:33:27 <antephialtic> base e ?
704 2014-03-20 06:33:29 johnsoft has joined
705 2014-03-20 06:33:36 <Luke-Jr> that's too complicated for my python module
706 2014-03-20 06:33:51 <justanotheruser> Is it even possible to use fractional bases?
707 2014-03-20 06:34:06 <justanotheruser> Or non-natural I should say
708 2014-03-20 06:34:22 <Luke-Jr> sure
709 2014-03-20 06:34:39 <justanotheruser> Is there a name for such bases? A wiki?
710 2014-03-20 06:34:40 <Luke-Jr> I have C code to do that somewhere, but not worth the time to dig it out
711 2014-03-20 06:34:47 <antephialtic> justanotheruser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_base#Fractional_numbers
712 2014-03-20 06:35:02 <antephialtic> apparently you can do imaginary base as well.
713 2014-03-20 06:35:19 cryptoc has joined
714 2014-03-20 06:35:43 <Luke-Jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
715 2014-03-20 06:35:45 <cryptoc> hey everyone, I just compiled the latest from master and my bitcoind getinfo is reading version 99900 -- is this correct?
716 2014-03-20 06:36:12 <cryptoc> additionally, it seems external RPC calls are broken
717 2014-03-20 06:36:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|cryptoc: yes, it is
718 2014-03-20 06:36:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's version 0.9.99
719 2014-03-20 06:37:06 <cryptoc> micagogo|cloud thank you, but it also says: " "errors" : "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications""
720 2014-03-20 06:37:34 <cryptoc> and it's not allowing incoming RPC requests, despite rpcallow etc everything enabled
721 2014-03-20 06:38:00 <justanotheruser> I see. So it requires decimals for pretty much every number
722 2014-03-20 06:39:19 <kadoban> cryptoc: were you expecting to get v0.9.0 ? then look for that tag, don't take from the head of master
723 2014-03-20 06:39:41 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
724 2014-03-20 06:39:43 <cryptoc> kadoban, indeed, apologies
725 2014-03-20 06:39:47 <Luke-Jr> cryptoc: uh, if it didn't allow incoming RPC requests, you couldn't see "errors"
726 2014-03-20 06:39:55 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
727 2014-03-20 06:40:04 wallet42 has joined
728 2014-03-20 06:40:05 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: no, it's not decimal..
729 2014-03-20 06:40:14 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr : I am not seeing errors from my client call, this is when I run bitcoind getinfo from terminal on the box
730 2014-03-20 06:40:33 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr: but the RPC is not accessible from external host despite settings not having changed since my ugprade
731 2014-03-20 06:40:36 <cryptoc> upgrade*
732 2014-03-20 06:40:38 <Luke-Jr> cryptoc: bitcoind getinfo is a RPC call
733 2014-03-20 06:40:51 <Luke-Jr> cryptoc: in general, accessing RPC from outside localhost is unsupported
734 2014-03-20 06:40:54 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base#Representing_irrational_numbers_of_note_as_golden_ratio_base_numbers
735 2014-03-20 06:40:56 <Luke-Jr> and probably a bad idea
736 2014-03-20 06:41:01 <justanotheruser> Oh shit
737 2014-03-20 06:41:07 <justanotheruser> Haha, I see what you're saying
738 2014-03-20 06:41:24 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr: I can understand, but I thought that was the point of rpcallowip, rpcssl, etc
739 2014-03-20 06:41:42 <Luke-Jr> cryptoc: it was, but it still isn't a good idea
740 2014-03-20 06:41:44 jeewee has joined
741 2014-03-20 06:41:46 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: âº
742 2014-03-20 06:42:09 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr: can you elaborate?
743 2014-03-20 06:42:11 <justanotheruser> I'm used to calling the fraction after the decimal point decimals :)
744 2014-03-20 06:42:16 Keefe has joined
745 2014-03-20 06:46:08 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr: I can understand where it'd be more attractive from a security standpoint to call a script which fires up the RPC call natively, instead of using a remote call, but do you have any other thoughts?
746 2014-03-20 06:46:12 <Luke-Jr> cryptoc: it's not designed to be robust against attack
747 2014-03-20 06:46:36 <cryptoc> Luke-Jr: I see, thank you.
748 2014-03-20 06:46:51 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
749 2014-03-20 06:47:19 johnsoft has joined
750 2014-03-20 06:47:43 paveljanik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
751 2014-03-20 06:47:54 CBit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
752 2014-03-20 06:48:52 etotheipi_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
753 2014-03-20 06:51:11 cryptoc has quit (Quit: Page closed)
754 2014-03-20 06:51:22 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
755 2014-03-20 06:51:45 sacrelege has joined
756 2014-03-20 06:52:35 <warren> there is a complaint on the forum that transifex is seeks behind in sync with master's source strings?
757 2014-03-20 06:52:40 <warren> weeks* behind
758 2014-03-20 06:55:30 antephialtic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
759 2014-03-20 06:55:39 yubrew has joined
760 2014-03-20 06:55:46 antephialtic has joined
761 2014-03-20 06:57:15 <Luke-Jr> warren: I imagine it's tied to 0.9.0?
762 2014-03-20 06:57:25 <Luke-Jr> for now
763 2014-03-20 06:58:02 cadaver has joined
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765 2014-03-20 07:00:24 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
766 2014-03-20 07:01:03 tombtc has quit (Quit: Wychodzi)
767 2014-03-20 07:01:04 etotheipi_ has joined
768 2014-03-20 07:01:56 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
769 2014-03-20 07:03:53 <wumpus> it's always people complaining isn't it...
770 2014-03-20 07:04:04 djcoin_ has joined
771 2014-03-20 07:04:22 greenspa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
772 2014-03-20 07:04:26 Keefe has joined
773 2014-03-20 07:05:16 <wumpus> they can pull translations from transifex themselves you know
774 2014-03-20 07:06:42 m104 has joined
775 2014-03-20 07:06:53 <antephialtic> any reason that its been almost an hour since the last block?
776 2014-03-20 07:06:56 disident has quit (Quit: disident)
777 2014-03-20 07:07:00 <wumpus> last transifex pull was *10 days ago* (both to master and 0.9.0) sheesh
778 2014-03-20 07:07:23 ziggamon has joined
779 2014-03-20 07:08:20 <warren> wumpus: then the complaint on the forum is false
780 2014-03-20 07:08:37 berndj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
781 2014-03-20 07:08:47 <wumpus> but of course, something could have always gone wrong
782 2014-03-20 07:09:11 <wumpus> it's always easier to complain on the forums than try to figure out what
783 2014-03-20 07:09:48 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
784 2014-03-20 07:12:03 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
785 2014-03-20 07:15:19 shesek has joined
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787 2014-03-20 07:19:17 m104 has quit (Quit: brb)
788 2014-03-20 07:22:13 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
789 2014-03-20 07:23:40 wateratosthenes has quit (Quit: wateratosthenes)
790 2014-03-20 07:24:15 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I interpreted warren's summary of the complaint to mean the *source data* in Transifex is stale
791 2014-03-20 07:25:38 t3st3r has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
792 2014-03-20 07:27:02 <wumpus> the latest english translation update (from source code) was 3 weeks ago, since then there have been only some minor message changes
793 2014-03-20 07:27:10 felipelalli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
794 2014-03-20 07:27:57 RoboTeddy has joined
795 2014-03-20 07:28:45 RoboTeddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
796 2014-03-20 07:28:49 <warren> I only recently learned how to use transifex for a different project. It is not without its problems, but I learned the upstream developers need to better feed the source strings for it to be useful.
797 2014-03-20 07:28:50 RoboTedd_ has joined
798 2014-03-20 07:29:15 <wumpus> it has turned out to be quite useful
799 2014-03-20 07:33:33 tinaivanova has joined
800 2014-03-20 07:34:42 felipelalli has joined
801 2014-03-20 07:35:04 <wumpus> though last time I did a sync from tx, the Korean translation had some invalid control characters in it causing lrelease to be unable to parse it
802 2014-03-20 07:35:05 felipelalli is now known as Guest44126
803 2014-03-20 07:35:35 disident has joined
804 2014-03-20 07:36:02 <warren> not without its problems
805 2014-03-20 07:36:18 <warren> it is entirely open source though, unlike its competitors
806 2014-03-20 07:36:19 <wumpus> nothing is
807 2014-03-20 07:37:49 hmsimha has joined
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809 2014-03-20 07:42:09 felipelalli_ has joined
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816 2014-03-20 07:47:20 <warren> wumpus: may I recommend using a practice in other projects, a string freeze before intended release.
817 2014-03-20 07:47:46 <wumpus> warren: we had an effective string freeze for some time already
818 2014-03-20 07:49:09 felipelalli_ is now known as felipelalli
819 2014-03-20 07:49:12 <Luke-Jr> do we get a string thaw too?
820 2014-03-20 07:49:13 <wumpus> then again I'm sure something snuck through
821 2014-03-20 07:49:25 <wumpus> doesn't everything always go wrong
822 2014-03-20 07:49:44 <Luke-Jr> pulltester should complain if strings change in odd-numbered months.
823 2014-03-20 07:49:49 yubrew has joined
824 2014-03-20 07:49:53 <Luke-Jr> then we can just do releases on the first day of even-numbered months
825 2014-03-20 07:49:55 <Luke-Jr> :P
826 2014-03-20 07:50:10 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: hah well now that final is out I suppose we can have our string thaw
827 2014-03-20 07:50:33 <Luke-Jr> yay, let's change ALL the strings!
828 2014-03-20 07:50:55 <wumpus> woohoo!
829 2014-03-20 07:51:04 <Luke-Jr> English +1 for allowing a string change no matter what the string
830 2014-03-20 07:52:21 DaQatz has joined
831 2014-03-20 07:53:34 lnovy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
832 2014-03-20 07:53:45 <wumpus> let's see if it is possible to make gitian produce fully static executables without having to patch the build system
833 2014-03-20 07:53:58 greenspa has joined
834 2014-03-20 07:54:36 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
835 2014-03-20 07:57:40 jeewee has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
836 2014-03-20 07:57:51 tiago has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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840 2014-03-20 08:01:31 tarantillo_ has joined
841 2014-03-20 08:02:16 <warren> wumpus: I just made gitian binaries that work on all the same distros as 0.8.6
842 2014-03-20 08:02:34 <wumpus> without having to downgrade the VM?
843 2014-03-20 08:02:37 <warren> wumpus: I'm sad I forgot to warn about this. I discovered this problem a few months ago.
844 2014-03-20 08:02:42 <warren> wumpus: no, downgraded the VM
845 2014-03-20 08:02:44 <Luke-Jr> â¦
846 2014-03-20 08:02:51 * uiop hopes that includes {rhel,centos}6 :)
847 2014-03-20 08:02:56 <warren> yes
848 2014-03-20 08:03:04 <wumpus> I want a solution that works without downgrading the VM
849 2014-03-20 08:03:09 <Luke-Jr> [22:25:05] <Luke-Jr> can probably get autotools to do some trick like http://www.trevorpounds.com/blog/?p=103 with --with-libc-compat=x or such
850 2014-03-20 08:03:12 <uiop> warren: you are gentleman and a scholar
851 2014-03-20 08:03:14 HeySteve2 has joined
852 2014-03-20 08:03:14 HeySteve2 has quit (Changing host)
853 2014-03-20 08:03:14 HeySteve2 has joined
854 2014-03-20 08:03:27 <Luke-Jr> (or just static link glibc..)
855 2014-03-20 08:03:34 neuroMode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
856 2014-03-20 08:03:34 <uiop> no!
857 2014-03-20 08:03:44 <wumpus> we have a great influx of gitian builders now, don't want to make it more complex for them by adding more types
858 2014-03-20 08:04:00 <warren> uiop: I changed a few strings. gavin and wumpus already made it clear they won't accept this solution, so until we find a better way I will need to distribute this myself.
859 2014-03-20 08:04:05 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: with-libc-compat? I'll take a look at that
860 2014-03-20 08:04:15 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: that was my suggested implementation :P
861 2014-03-20 08:04:18 <warren> Luke-Jr: I looked into this last year and failed
862 2014-03-20 08:04:25 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes I'm currently just making a bitcoind.static that is fully static
863 2014-03-20 08:04:33 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: including glibc and libstdc++
864 2014-03-20 08:04:46 HeySteve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
865 2014-03-20 08:04:51 nsh has joined
866 2014-03-20 08:05:10 <warren> wumpus: how large is it?
867 2014-03-20 08:05:30 <warren> wumpus: that's less desirable for reasons other than size...
868 2014-03-20 08:05:31 <wumpus> warren: no clue, still building
869 2014-03-20 08:05:37 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
870 2014-03-20 08:05:45 <wumpus> warren: I know *KNOW* that, have you seen my list of reasons in that issue?
871 2014-03-20 08:05:56 <wumpus> it's better than nothing though
872 2014-03-20 08:05:58 <warren> I agree this sucks.
873 2014-03-20 08:06:11 <warren> as much as it sucks, the downgraded VM is better
874 2014-03-20 08:06:23 <warren> unless someone figures out a better solution
875 2014-03-20 08:06:24 <wumpus> well good luck with that
876 2014-03-20 08:06:32 <warren> I'm distributing this if you won't.
877 2014-03-20 08:06:33 <warren> I'm sorry.
878 2014-03-20 08:06:42 <wumpus> you don't have to be sorry, distribute what you want
879 2014-03-20 08:06:51 <wumpus> it's a free world
880 2014-03-20 08:06:54 <wumpus> :P
881 2014-03-20 08:07:34 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
882 2014-03-20 08:08:12 * uiop unleashes ulrich drepper on you all
883 2014-03-20 08:08:18 * Luke-Jr votes we stop trying to ship a Linux binary and just make packages for any distros we care about <.<
884 2014-03-20 08:08:29 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: one problem: determinism :-(
885 2014-03-20 08:08:36 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: so? <.<
886 2014-03-20 08:08:40 jeewee has joined
887 2014-03-20 08:08:48 <Luke-Jr> yeah okay, I guess that's more complicated
888 2014-03-20 08:08:50 <Luke-Jr> sigh
889 2014-03-20 08:08:53 <warren> Luke-Jr: we can't do that
890 2014-03-20 08:08:53 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's a superior solution for the end-users, but can we build all those packages in a deterministic way without zillions of VMs?
891 2014-03-20 08:08:56 <warren> Luke-Jr: opensl
892 2014-03-20 08:09:02 <Luke-Jr> warren: what?
893 2014-03-20 08:09:09 <wumpus> warren: just link that statically
894 2014-03-20 08:09:23 <warren> Luke-Jr: the gitian binary has been the easiest to support for all red hat and fedora distros.
895 2014-03-20 08:09:44 <warren> Luke-Jr: I'd prefer to make a gitian binary and stuff that into an rpm.
896 2014-03-20 08:09:50 <wumpus> uiop: ulrich drepper? is that good or bad?
897 2014-03-20 08:10:23 <warren> wumpus: sounds like an ancient hex, but it's really a glibc/gcc developer.
898 2014-03-20 08:10:59 <uiop> wumpus: he was the glibc maintainer for a stretch, and he is famous for his humoursly-dialected rants against static libs (because the wrote a fair part of ld.so)
899 2014-03-20 08:11:09 cheetah2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
900 2014-03-20 08:11:12 <wumpus> warren: oh no, those are the worst, I was mugged by one last night
901 2014-03-20 08:11:29 <warren> uiop: gitian binary outputs are gigantic static binaries. as much as I hate static linking it's been a better solution for bitcoin.
902 2014-03-20 08:12:02 <uiop> http://www.akkadia.org/drepper/dsohowto.pdf
903 2014-03-20 08:12:04 <wumpus> $ ldd build/out/bin/32/bitcoind -> statically linked HAH that was easy
904 2014-03-20 08:12:07 <uiop> http://www.akkadia.org/drepper/symbol-versioning
905 2014-03-20 08:12:11 <uiop> http://www.akkadia.org/drepper/no_static_linking.html
906 2014-03-20 08:12:22 <uiop> is a cross section
907 2014-03-20 08:12:26 <uiop> the source: http://www.akkadia.org/drepper/
908 2014-03-20 08:12:36 <wumpus> it's only 9MB too
909 2014-03-20 08:13:27 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
910 2014-03-20 08:13:42 <uiop> warren: but glibc?!? (i do appreciate that the tools don't exist to create a setup so that you can link against the glb of glibc symbol version available in all distros of interest, and this is unfortunate)
911 2014-03-20 08:14:01 <uiop> (glb := greatest lower bound)
912 2014-03-20 08:14:55 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
913 2014-03-20 08:15:04 <Luke-Jr> "And no, it is not possible in general to generate PIEs with static linking."
914 2014-03-20 08:15:15 <uiop> wumpus, warren: with the caveats that you now need to track openssl, et al daily security bulletins..
915 2014-03-20 08:15:25 <wumpus> I know that Luke-Jr, also listed that in the issue
916 2014-03-20 08:15:34 <wumpus> uiop: we already link openssl statically both on linux and windows
917 2014-03-20 08:15:45 <uiop> wumpus: :o
918 2014-03-20 08:15:54 Keefe has joined
919 2014-03-20 08:15:54 <wumpus> uiop: have been doing that since the beginning in gitian builds
920 2014-03-20 08:16:04 llllllllll has joined
921 2014-03-20 08:16:21 <Luke-Jr> it makes no sense to static link Windows :P
922 2014-03-20 08:16:31 <uiop> what's the link to this "issue" you're mentioning?
923 2014-03-20 08:16:35 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: joker
924 2014-03-20 08:16:44 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: not at all, just dump the DLLs in the program directory
925 2014-03-20 08:16:51 shripadk has joined
926 2014-03-20 08:16:59 <uiop> windows is a total horrorshow
927 2014-03-20 08:17:11 <Luke-Jr> works as well as static linking, except users can opt to de-duplicate
928 2014-03-20 08:17:30 <wumpus> my 32-bit statically built bitcoind built on 12.04 doesn't work on 14.04 64 bit... how cure
929 2014-03-20 08:17:31 <wumpus> cute*
930 2014-03-20 08:17:39 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: lol?
931 2014-03-20 08:17:44 <Luke-Jr> now you're the joker
932 2014-03-20 08:17:45 <Luke-Jr> :P
933 2014-03-20 08:17:48 coeus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
934 2014-03-20 08:18:00 <Luke-Jr> oh, maybe becuase the localisation stuff
935 2014-03-20 08:18:04 <wumpus> and you know what error it gives? 'No such file or directory' HAH HAH HAH
936 2014-03-20 08:18:17 <warren> Luke-Jr: dll's aren't any better on windows in maintainability
937 2014-03-20 08:18:17 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: is 14.04 pure 64-bit?
938 2014-03-20 08:18:27 petcat has joined
939 2014-03-20 08:18:31 <wumpus> it can't find the ld.so .. which is indeed in a different place
940 2014-03-20 08:18:32 <Luke-Jr> warren: the point is Windows will use your local DLLs first
941 2014-03-20 08:18:35 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: no, mixed
942 2014-03-20 08:18:43 W0rmDr1nk has joined
943 2014-03-20 08:18:43 <warren> Luke-Jr: that doesn't help at all
944 2014-03-20 08:18:47 <warren> Luke-Jr: over the static build
945 2014-03-20 08:18:48 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: static binaries don't need ld.so :P
946 2014-03-20 08:19:01 <wumpus> why does a static executable look for ld.so while starting, I don't know, ldd says it's static but seemingly its not static enough
947 2014-03-20 08:19:03 <Luke-Jr> warren: it doesn't hurt, but it does help users who want to share common DLLs
948 2014-03-20 08:19:20 <wumpus> the 64-bit one works perfectly though (and is really static)
949 2014-03-20 08:19:47 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: what about the x32 one? or do we even build that yet?
950 2014-03-20 08:20:04 <wumpus> uiop: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3803
951 2014-03-20 08:20:13 HeySteve2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
952 2014-03-20 08:20:26 HeySteve has joined
953 2014-03-20 08:20:27 HeySteve has quit (Changing host)
954 2014-03-20 08:20:27 HeySteve has joined
955 2014-03-20 08:20:27 <warren> Luke-Jr: good luck with that
956 2014-03-20 08:20:45 <Luke-Jr> warren: thanks, I'm sure I'll need it! :P
957 2014-03-20 08:20:50 DoctorBTC has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
958 2014-03-20 08:21:08 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
959 2014-03-20 08:21:19 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you really don't want that, lack of ability to use the 64,64->128 multiply makes libsecp256k1 something like 2x slower. :)
960 2014-03-20 08:21:20 HeySteve has joined
961 2014-03-20 08:21:33 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: x32 can't use it?
962 2014-03-20 08:21:52 <wumpus> "Dynamic section at offset 0x8ab514 contains 24 entries" my 32-bit static binary has a dynamic section, but without any references to libraries, how funny
963 2014-03-20 08:22:01 <gmaxwell> the registers are 32 bits, so I don't think so.
964 2014-03-20 08:22:09 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: no, x32 registers are 64-bit
965 2014-03-20 08:22:11 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
966 2014-03-20 08:22:14 <uiop> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3430400/linux-static-linking-is-dead (re: glibc static link isn't *fully* static)
967 2014-03-20 08:22:14 melvster has joined
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969 2014-03-20 08:22:29 sacrelege has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
970 2014-03-20 08:22:36 * warren facepalms hard.
971 2014-03-20 08:22:44 <wumpus> oh it's only a bit static
972 2014-03-20 08:22:45 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
973 2014-03-20 08:23:09 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
974 2014-03-20 08:23:17 <uiop> static-ish-y
975 2014-03-20 08:23:32 davout has joined
976 2014-03-20 08:23:42 s0le has joined
977 2014-03-20 08:23:51 <wumpus> the 64-bit one is really, really static though, just the 32-bit one isn't
978 2014-03-20 08:23:59 benrcole has joined
979 2014-03-20 08:24:02 <wumpus> let's just drop 32 bit support
980 2014-03-20 08:24:13 <uiop> heh
981 2014-03-20 08:24:29 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: maybe static non-glibc?
982 2014-03-20 08:24:52 <uiop> as in, another libc? (hairy)
983 2014-03-20 08:24:55 <wumpus> (I'm sick of all these permutations, we should have a centrally enforced 'computer' system with one set of hardware and software... oh,wait)
984 2014-03-20 08:26:04 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: let's just compile to .NET bytecode
985 2014-03-20 08:26:09 * Luke-Jr hides in shame
986 2014-03-20 08:26:17 <uiop> compile to bitcoin script!
987 2014-03-20 08:26:20 HeySteve has joined
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989 2014-03-20 08:26:20 HeySteve has joined
990 2014-03-20 08:26:21 HeySteve has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
991 2014-03-20 08:26:26 <Luke-Jr> uiop wins
992 2014-03-20 08:26:36 <wumpus> :D
993 2014-03-20 08:26:44 <Luke-Jr> who does the GCC patch?
994 2014-03-20 08:26:53 felipelalli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
995 2014-03-20 08:27:10 <warren> software is hard. let's go back to fiat.
996 2014-03-20 08:27:11 <wumpus> it's too bad that java and .net and similar systems never did solve the issue of cross-platform variability, they just add a layer on top
997 2014-03-20 08:27:15 ThomasV has joined
998 2014-03-20 08:27:17 <warren> No problems with fiat, right?
999 2014-03-20 08:27:42 <wumpus> warren: there's software there too
1000 2014-03-20 08:27:46 felipelalli has joined
1001 2014-03-20 08:27:50 <warren> damn
1002 2014-03-20 08:27:51 <Luke-Jr> warren: as long as it's tonal and ideally non-inflationary
1003 2014-03-20 08:27:58 <Luke-Jr> no demurrage either, that just confuses me
1004 2014-03-20 08:28:10 felipelalli is now known as Guest96389
1005 2014-03-20 08:28:34 <Luke-Jr> always annoying when I start up Freicoin-Qt and have to watch the FRC balance drop :/
1006 2014-03-20 08:30:10 <wumpus> doh, I'm still passing -pie, of course I get a static-ish executable
1007 2014-03-20 08:30:16 benten has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1008 2014-03-20 08:30:50 shripadk has quit (Quit: shripadk)
1009 2014-03-20 08:31:05 <antephialtic> demurrage is a bitch, eh.
1010 2014-03-20 08:31:53 <wumpus> antephialtic: it's hard to debug whether it's demurrage or your wallet just has a leak :p
1011 2014-03-20 08:32:20 <warren> bitcoin wallets have no leaks.
1012 2014-03-20 08:32:22 <warren> oh wait
1013 2014-03-20 08:32:40 <antephialtic> bitcoin is perfect. all hail satoshi, the savior of us all.
1014 2014-03-20 08:34:03 <wumpus> no leaks ever
1015 2014-03-20 08:34:29 MoALTz has joined
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1017 2014-03-20 08:35:08 johnsoft has joined
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1019 2014-03-20 08:37:03 <warren> grr, setting up a gitian.sigs for this build
1020 2014-03-20 08:39:03 MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1021 2014-03-20 08:39:57 s0le has quit ()
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1030 2014-03-20 08:49:36 <wumpus> There is no dynamic section in this file. woohoo
1031 2014-03-20 08:49:53 <warren> how big is it?
1032 2014-03-20 08:50:28 <wumpus> 8407524 for the 32-bit, 8632240 for the 64-bit
1033 2014-03-20 08:50:45 <wumpus> so, peanuts
1034 2014-03-20 08:50:46 _ImI_ has joined
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1036 2014-03-20 08:51:46 JackH has joined
1037 2014-03-20 08:52:40 stonecoldpat has joined
1038 2014-03-20 08:53:20 <wumpus> (for comparison, the currently released ones are ~7.7MB)
1039 2014-03-20 08:55:15 Eagle[TM] has joined
1040 2014-03-20 08:55:40 ziggamon has joined
1041 2014-03-20 08:56:01 <uiop> wumpus: just saw the link (issues/###), thx
1042 2014-03-20 08:57:49 wizgot has joined
1043 2014-03-20 08:58:33 fanquake has joined
1044 2014-03-20 08:59:34 etotheipi_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1045 2014-03-20 09:00:39 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1046 2014-03-20 09:00:54 Guest96389 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1047 2014-03-20 09:02:34 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1048 2014-03-20 09:03:20 felipelalli_ has joined
1049 2014-03-20 09:04:04 mappum has joined
1050 2014-03-20 09:04:10 mappum has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1051 2014-03-20 09:04:12 Application has joined
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1054 2014-03-20 09:04:50 <uiop> http://sprunge.us/LObP here's a .dot of the libc.so versions on {rhel,centos}6 (random datapoint, mostly just because i have a misc script to extract a pretty depgraph of versions from readelf -a :)
1055 2014-03-20 09:04:51 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
1056 2014-03-20 09:04:56 mappum has joined
1057 2014-03-20 09:05:00 <uiop> curl -s http://sprunge.us/LObP | dot -Tpng > __OUT.png
1058 2014-03-20 09:05:57 Applicat_ has joined
1059 2014-03-20 09:07:05 <uiop> but yeah, rhel6 has latest symver GLIBC_2.12
1060 2014-03-20 09:07:21 <warren> wumpus: the plan is to release that? I suppose that's good enough for most people
1061 2014-03-20 09:07:38 <wumpus> warren: there is no plan, I'm just experimenting and throwing ideas out there
1062 2014-03-20 09:08:07 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1063 2014-03-20 09:08:08 <wumpus> just realized we need a static -cli as well
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1072 2014-03-20 09:16:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How big is a static bitcoin-qt?
1073 2014-03-20 09:16:59 ziggamon has joined
1074 2014-03-20 09:17:10 <warren> michagogo|cloud: he did it for only bitcoind
1075 2014-03-20 09:17:12 <warren> not -qt
1076 2014-03-20 09:17:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I know
1077 2014-03-20 09:17:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I mean, next question, how big would -Qt be?
1078 2014-03-20 09:17:49 <warren> hmm
1079 2014-03-20 09:17:52 Eiii has quit ()
1080 2014-03-20 09:17:57 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1081 2014-03-20 09:17:57 <warren> losing ASLR really isn't good
1082 2014-03-20 09:17:59 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: big (the windows .exe should be a good guide)
1083 2014-03-20 09:18:15 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|doesn't know how big that is
1084 2014-03-20 09:18:15 <warren> I guess the windows .exe lacks it too.
1085 2014-03-20 09:18:26 <wumpus> no, for windows it works
1086 2014-03-20 09:19:16 petcat has joined
1087 2014-03-20 09:19:37 <wumpus> it works differently for windows IIRC, the OS does the ASLR, not the dynamic linker
1088 2014-03-20 09:19:39 ziggamon has quit (Client Quit)
1089 2014-03-20 09:20:03 _ImI_ has quit (Quit: _ImI_)
1090 2014-03-20 09:20:20 <warren> ok
1091 2014-03-20 09:22:39 <wumpus> (well to be pedantic, windows doesn't have a separate dynamic linker like linux, it's just part of executable-loading)
1092 2014-03-20 09:22:52 <uiop> windows dyn linker runs in kernel space
1093 2014-03-20 09:22:54 <uiop> yeah
1094 2014-03-20 09:23:32 <uiop> (yikes)
1095 2014-03-20 09:24:03 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1104 2014-03-20 09:33:51 <fanquake> wumpus You can close #3563
1105 2014-03-20 09:34:24 <wumpus> ok, so with newer -qt it did work?
1106 2014-03-20 09:35:27 <fanquake> Just realised the latest release is using 4.8.5..
1107 2014-03-20 09:35:28 <fanquake> I haven't been able to test again yet. can't compile master atm.
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1111 2014-03-20 09:35:51 <wumpus> compiling on macosx is great fun from what I've read
1112 2014-03-20 09:36:06 <wumpus> gitian builds for macosx are coming though :)
1113 2014-03-20 09:36:24 <fanquake> yea.. it's my favourite past time :|
1114 2014-03-20 09:36:32 boldfield_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1115 2014-03-20 09:36:51 <fanquake> I've been trying to keep an eye on the new gitian stuff. Been meaning to get gitian builds running for myself.
1116 2014-03-20 09:36:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Uh... https://medium.com/p/681d3dea0093
1117 2014-03-20 09:36:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|o_O
1118 2014-03-20 09:37:44 <wumpus> lol
1119 2014-03-20 09:37:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|fanquake: that'd be great -- more gbuilders is a very good thing
1120 2014-03-20 09:37:56 _ImI_ has joined
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1123 2014-03-20 09:38:43 <fanquake> Last time I was setting it up, I ran into some error. possibly Ruby related, and then I just got busy with other things.
1124 2014-03-20 09:38:52 flound1129 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1125 2014-03-20 09:38:53 <fanquake> Will look at it again soon.
1126 2014-03-20 09:39:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|fanquake: if you run into trouble, you can get assistance in here
1127 2014-03-20 09:39:29 wangbus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1129 2014-03-20 09:39:52 oleganza has joined
1130 2014-03-20 09:40:15 wangbus has joined
1131 2014-03-20 09:40:16 <oleganza> hi there. Congrats with 0.9.0 release
1132 2014-03-20 09:40:16 Guyver2 has joined
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1134 2014-03-20 09:40:31 Plasmastar has joined
1135 2014-03-20 09:40:32 <oleganza> i'm tinkering with my own bitcoin validation code and have problem with testnet GetNextWorkRequired
1136 2014-03-20 09:40:38 <oleganza> which is really weird
1137 2014-03-20 09:41:06 xertrov has joined
1138 2014-03-20 09:41:25 <oleganza> according to the code, GetNextWorkRequired returns target that must match exactly nBits in the current block, not return a target "greater or equal".
1139 2014-03-20 09:42:38 <oleganza> on testnet3, block 385 has time 1202 seconds higher than the previous block. According to special rule for testnet, if time interval is above 1200 sec, block target is reset to max target
1140 2014-03-20 09:42:38 <oleganza> http://test.webbtc.com/block/00000000ae0922c1de5eff0d7e5fa1009661d8a47ca1664ceea58069e15c4cc3
1141 2014-03-20 09:43:15 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1142 2014-03-20 09:43:15 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1143 2014-03-20 09:43:40 <oleganza> so GetNextWorkRequired returns max target 487063544 while the block 385 has nBits = 486604799
1144 2014-03-20 09:43:56 <oleganza> they don't match and I can't validate block 385
1145 2014-03-20 09:44:26 <oleganza> i've double checked that i import exactly the same blocks with correct hashes, timestamps and nBits
1146 2014-03-20 09:44:38 wangbus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1147 2014-03-20 09:44:49 <oleganza> i wonder if anyone has a clue what could be wrong here
1148 2014-03-20 09:45:08 flound1129 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1160 2014-03-20 09:52:08 <oleganza> niiiice https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/commit/edb563e8a5e6145cef6684e6e179b428a115ec62
1161 2014-03-20 09:52:42 <oleganza> so this 1200 sec reset was introduced in Feb 15, 2012, but later was removed from the source because checkpoints are assumed to be always on
1162 2014-03-20 09:53:14 <gmaxwell> huh?
1163 2014-03-20 09:53:19 <gmaxwell> drug induced comment.
1164 2014-03-20 09:53:59 <gmaxwell> oleganza: thats how testnet work, checkpoints have nothing to do with that and usually you'd be best if you erased the word checkpoints from your mind.
1165 2014-03-20 09:54:20 <gmaxwell> er, s/work/works/
1166 2014-03-20 09:54:33 <oleganza> I disabled checkpoints entirely, btw
1167 2014-03-20 09:54:51 <oleganza> my problem is that block 385 does not follow the rules in bitcoind (or i miss something)
1168 2014-03-20 09:55:02 <oleganza> but some time before there was a timestamp check
1169 2014-03-20 09:55:06 <oleganza> (see the commit above)
1170 2014-03-20 09:55:06 <gmaxwell> Nope.
1171 2014-03-20 09:55:16 <gmaxwell> That was testnet2.
1172 2014-03-20 09:55:38 <gmaxwell> the testnet3 chain has had the difficulty rule its whole life.
1173 2014-03-20 09:56:01 <oleganza> but i'm importing testnet3 blocks from scratch
1174 2014-03-20 09:56:22 <oleganza> with genesis: http://test.webbtc.com/block/000000000933ea01ad0ee984209779baaec3ced90fa3f408719526f8d77f4943
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1176 2014-03-20 09:57:42 <oleganza> ok, thanks for clarification: the timestamp check was removed because testnet3 started with that rule from the beginning. But I still don't get why the 1202 sec difference did not cause block 385 to have max target
1177 2014-03-20 09:58:03 <gmaxwell> it does have the max target, as does 384
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1180 2014-03-20 09:58:42 <gmaxwell> (and 386 for that matter)
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1182 2014-03-20 09:58:46 <oleganza> 486604799 is max target?
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1189 2014-03-20 10:00:52 <oleganza> oh
1190 2014-03-20 10:00:54 <oleganza> alright
1191 2014-03-20 10:01:04 <oleganza> someone screwed up max_target in the network params
1192 2014-03-20 10:01:09 <oleganza> gmaxwell: thanks a lot
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1197 2014-03-20 10:02:07 <gmaxwell> oleganza: max_target in the network params?
1198 2014-03-20 10:02:37 <oleganza> not in bitcoind source
1199 2014-03-20 10:02:56 <gmaxwell> K.
1200 2014-03-20 10:03:39 <oleganza> gmaxwell: https://github.com/lian/bitcoin-ruby/commit/85d19aa80b05305fe9506de282055ebfb0a3e33e
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1202 2014-03-20 10:04:29 <gmaxwell> I was totally baffled to see you represent bits as an integer. :P
1203 2014-03-20 10:04:35 <Ghaleon_> any detailed BitcoinD upgrade guide for ubuntu ? the 0.9.0 release just says to uninstall it..... does this mean delete the block chain files and my wallet.dat too ? is there anyway to upgrade it without having to rebuild thenblockchain files?
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1205 2014-03-20 10:04:56 <oleganza> gmaxwell: i keep some console to convert into bignum and compact hex when needed
1206 2014-03-20 10:05:08 <oleganza> so the correct limit is 0x1d00ffff
1207 2014-03-20 10:05:16 <oleganza> not 0x1d07fff8
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1209 2014-03-20 10:05:42 <gmaxwell> Ghaleon_: #bitcoin is a better channel for that kind of question, but uninstalling it won't remove those things (though you should always have a good backup of your wallet before and upgrade just in case)
1210 2014-03-20 10:06:00 <Ghaleon_> i was banned from bit coin for posting a link... :(
1211 2014-03-20 10:06:18 <wumpus> nonono, don't uninstall any data files, the uninstaller doesn't touch those
1212 2014-03-20 10:06:33 <airbreather> don't delete wallet.dat
1213 2014-03-20 10:06:48 <wumpus> would you expect word to also remove all your documents if you uninstall it?
1214 2014-03-20 10:06:53 <Ghaleon_> i just wanna upgrade to 0.9.0 it looks awesome
1215 2014-03-20 10:07:11 <Ghaleon_> good point rumpus. i am being extra cautious here
1216 2014-03-20 10:07:20 <Ghaleon_> considering what is at risk
1217 2014-03-20 10:07:29 <wumpus> do backup your wallet!
1218 2014-03-20 10:07:47 <Ghaleon_> certainly
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1220 2014-03-20 10:09:02 <airbreather> BTW, sincere congratulations to the dev team for getting 0.9.0 out.
1221 2014-03-20 10:09:03 <Ghaleon_> i installed it on ubuntu with aptitude install bit coin so i would imagine that aptitude uninstall bit coin will work ?
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1226 2014-03-20 10:09:36 <Ghaleon_> yes, us noobs r very thankful, can;t wait to try out the direct customer to merchant sends!!!
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1237 2014-03-20 10:13:01 <oleganza> gmaxwell: are you going to Amsterdam in May 15-17?
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1263 2014-03-20 10:32:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Anyone know if BlueMatt pushed 0.9.0 yet?
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1270 2014-03-20 10:34:27 <epscy> michagogo|cloud: to the ubuntu ppa?, i checked about an hour ago and no
1271 2014-03-20 10:34:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|epscy: thanks
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1273 2014-03-20 10:35:05 <Ghaleon_> not pap for ubunto 0.0.0 can anyone upload it please?
1274 2014-03-20 10:35:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ghaleon_: what version of Bitcoin do you have at the moment?
1275 2014-03-20 10:35:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|0.8.6?
1276 2014-03-20 10:35:17 <Ghaleon_> yeah
1277 2014-03-20 10:35:23 <Ghaleon_> just installed it last week
1278 2014-03-20 10:35:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you want to upgrade from the ppa, you can't yet
1279 2014-03-20 10:35:42 <Ghaleon_> really want 0.9.0 for ubuntu.. i am a noob tho and lost with apt
1280 2014-03-20 10:35:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt needs to update the PPA first
1281 2014-03-20 10:35:53 <Ghaleon_> yes.. i will have to compile it myself
1282 2014-03-20 10:35:59 <Ghaleon_> not sure if gcc is on that box even
1283 2014-03-20 10:36:10 t7 has joined
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1285 2014-03-20 10:36:17 <Ghaleon_> bluematt, bray. we need u
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1287 2014-03-20 10:36:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ghaleon_: you could do that, or you could just wait -- I'm sure he'll get around to it in the next couple of days
1288 2014-03-20 10:36:28 <airbreather> I'd recommend just waiting
1289 2014-03-20 10:36:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I hope)
1290 2014-03-20 10:36:35 uiop_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1291 2014-03-20 10:36:36 <epscy> +1 for waiting
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1293 2014-03-20 10:37:01 <Ghaleon_> we need the latest n great tho... like the iPhone kiddies
1294 2014-03-20 10:37:01 ThomasV has joined
1295 2014-03-20 10:37:40 <airbreather> no you don't -- you need something that is going to work
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1300 2014-03-20 10:38:47 <airbreather> if you really want to compile it yourself, I think "apt-get build-dep bitcoin" can get you most of the way towards where you need to be in order to compile the latest and greatest
1301 2014-03-20 10:38:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ghaleon_: you're probably best off just waiting for Matt to push the update
1302 2014-03-20 10:39:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Though it'd be nice to have more than one person with that ability...)
1303 2014-03-20 10:39:27 <Ghaleon_> yeah u guys r right
1304 2014-03-20 10:39:40 <Ghaleon_> wish i had the skills to do it myself and upload the latest ppa
1305 2014-03-20 10:39:51 <Ghaleon_> we really need to distro out the workload
1306 2014-03-20 10:40:09 <airbreather> isn't that just the way PPAs work, though? Or is there a way for the maintainer to authorize other individuals to upload things
1307 2014-03-20 10:40:10 <Ghaleon_> got big plans to get bit coin mainstream
1308 2014-03-20 10:40:21 <Ghaleon_> we need our own server so thus i am going uber geek
1309 2014-03-20 10:40:22 <epscy> airbreather: hasn't the build system changed?, if so it might be more work than usual
1310 2014-03-20 10:40:41 Malstromm has joined
1311 2014-03-20 10:40:45 <Malstromm> Hi all
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1313 2014-03-20 10:41:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|airbreather: IIRC the ppa belongs to the team "bitcoin"
1314 2014-03-20 10:41:04 <Malstromm> I'd like to get rid of all the malleated transactions I get on top of my transaction list on Bitcoin-QT
1315 2014-03-20 10:41:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which currently consists only of Matt
1316 2014-03-20 10:41:14 <Malstromm> should I use -zapwallettxes?
1317 2014-03-20 10:41:26 <wumpus> Malstromm: yes, do make a backup of your wallet ofc
1318 2014-03-20 10:41:28 <airbreather> epscy, probably. "not sure if gcc is on that box even" led me to believe that the build-dep step is helpful though
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1320 2014-03-20 10:41:40 <Malstromm> but wouldn't this mess up with the internal QT accounting? Will it maintain my tags, etc.?
1321 2014-03-20 10:41:42 <epscy> airbreather: fair enough
1322 2014-03-20 10:41:55 <wumpus> Malstromm: it will keep your labels
1323 2014-03-20 10:41:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Malstromm: zapwallettx will, yes
1324 2014-03-20 10:42:01 <Malstromm> Great!
1325 2014-03-20 10:42:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Salvagewallet, which is what you would have had to do before 0.9, would lose them
1326 2014-03-20 10:42:50 <wumpus> salvagewallet is really drastic, it really only keeps the private keys
1327 2014-03-20 10:43:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|airbreather: So Matt could add other people to the team, and they would then have the ability to upload
1328 2014-03-20 10:43:09 <Malstromm> I know michagogolcloud
1329 2014-03-20 10:43:17 <Malstromm> that's why I waited for 0.9.0!!
1330 2014-03-20 10:43:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unfortunately, Launchpad doesn't have the ability to require multiple signatures on an upload
1331 2014-03-20 10:43:42 <airbreather> heh
1332 2014-03-20 10:44:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So anyone who has access to the PPA can push arbitrary anythings to anyone who uses the ppa :-:
1333 2014-03-20 10:44:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:-/*
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1335 2014-03-20 10:44:40 <fanquake> Probably why matt hasn't given anybody else access to it..
1336 2014-03-20 10:44:40 <wumpus> also the packages for the PPA are not deterministically built
1337 2014-03-20 10:44:50 <airbreather> yeah, really it should require m-of-n signatures, how hard can it be
1338 2014-03-20 10:45:02 <airbreather> wumpus: isn't 0.9.0 deterministic now?
1339 2014-03-20 10:45:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I mean, it's not like it auto-installs, they do require an update, but many people just click the button whenever it pops up
1340 2014-03-20 10:45:20 <wumpus> airbreather: ... what do you mean by that?
1341 2014-03-20 10:45:33 tipsfedora has joined
1342 2014-03-20 10:45:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|airbreather: release binaries, as seen on bitcoin.org, are all built deterministically by multiple people using gitian
1343 2014-03-20 10:45:36 <airbreather> I thought I saw some checkins to make some of the build process more deterministic
1344 2014-03-20 10:45:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's not new
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1346 2014-03-20 10:45:53 <wumpus> airbreather: yes, the gitian builds are deterministic, but the gitian build does not build the PPA package
1347 2014-03-20 10:45:58 <airbreather> OH
1348 2014-03-20 10:45:58 <airbreather> ok
1349 2014-03-20 10:46:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But with Ubuntu PPAs, you upload a source package to Launchpad
1350 2014-03-20 10:46:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And the Ubuntu/LP build farm does the builds
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1354 2014-03-20 10:48:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Although, I think PPAs can have binary-only packages... I wonder why that route isn't taken, with the ppa just distributing binary packages made with the release binaries
1355 2014-03-20 10:48:45 <wumpus> probably because he wants PPAs adapted for the various Ubuntu versions
1356 2014-03-20 10:49:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Adapted in what way?
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1358 2014-03-20 10:49:14 <Ghaleon_> i am curious as to how blockchain.info's database works... they had a big old mysql database... it seems they used mysql to hold their own relational version of the entire block chain... and this is why their block explorer worked, by drawing upon this mysql db which was feed from the bloclchain... seems it got corrupt somehow..... but if their entire system went down it also means that their entire system depended
1359 2014-03-20 10:49:15 <Ghaleon_> this mysql database... meaning it was their own internal accounting system as well
1360 2014-03-20 10:49:23 <wumpus> if you build, say a 12.04 package on ubuntu 12.04, it will never fail due to missing libraries or other dependencies
1361 2014-03-20 10:49:23 <Ghaleon_> can anyone add some insight to this?
1362 2014-03-20 10:49:39 <wumpus> this avoids all the problems that we have with gitian builds
1363 2014-03-20 10:49:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: release binaries are static, no?
1364 2014-03-20 10:49:43 <Ghaleon_> i am trying to figure out how various companies structure their internal accounting system onto of the blockchain
1365 2014-03-20 10:49:48 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: no
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1367 2014-03-20 10:50:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They aren't? o_O
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1369 2014-03-20 10:50:15 <wumpus> not currently, there are some drawbacks to statically linked executables
1370 2014-03-20 10:50:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Me wonders how he confused that
1371 2014-03-20 10:50:22 <Ghaleon_> also what database do u guys suggest instead of mysql..... some relational abilities are needed but not much it seems.... mongDB might suffice
1372 2014-03-20 10:50:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Er, /me*
1373 2014-03-20 10:50:33 <airbreather> Seems like for bitcoin, it would be a worthwhile effort to maintain a source repository that contains just the dpkg fluff, so someone could deterministically produce the release binaries that get pushed to a binary-only PPA
1374 2014-03-20 10:50:36 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: well we link boost, openssl, and a few other deps statically in gitian
1375 2014-03-20 10:50:51 <airbreather> when combined with the gitian output
1376 2014-03-20 10:50:55 <airbreather> if I understand all this right
1377 2014-03-20 10:51:06 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: but it's not fully static... it has me confused sometimes as well
1378 2014-03-20 10:51:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wumpus: what remains dynamic?
1379 2014-03-20 10:51:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Other than glibc :-P)
1380 2014-03-20 10:51:27 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: see my post in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3781
1381 2014-03-20 10:52:08 <wumpus> michagogo|cloud: and see also https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3803
1382 2014-03-20 10:52:30 <Malstromm> one question guys: does zapwallettxes take a lot of time? I mean, does it involve a full re-scan of the blockchain?
1383 2014-03-20 10:52:49 <wumpus> Malstromm: yes, it involves a rescan (but not reindex)
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1391 2014-03-20 10:58:35 <Malstromm> of, so it should be around 30 mins if it takes as long as Armory when it does a rescan...
1392 2014-03-20 11:01:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Malstromm: depends on your machine, but I suspect it probably won't take half an hour
1393 2014-03-20 11:02:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I don't know exactly what armory does or how similar that operation is to BC's rescan)
1394 2014-03-20 11:02:40 <wumpus> oh great: warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
1395 2014-03-20 11:03:34 <Ghaleon_> am I the only one that thinks about internal above block chain accounting systems?
1396 2014-03-20 11:03:44 <Ghaleon_> any mega geeks here wanna tell me their vision?
1397 2014-03-20 11:03:57 <Ghaleon_> i am trying to level up ova ere
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1399 2014-03-20 11:04:29 <epscy> Ghaleon_: i keep thinking about it all the time
1400 2014-03-20 11:04:41 <epscy> i don't like the accounts system in bitcoind
1401 2014-03-20 11:04:54 <epscy> one of these days i may even try and write something
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1403 2014-03-20 11:05:08 <Ghaleon_> epscy that is awesome. yeah the accounts system in bitcoind is not enough, i made a db onto of it to bind addresses to accounts
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1405 2014-03-20 11:05:15 <fanquake> wumpus qt 5.0.2 and 5.2.1 both fail to compile now. Gunna try Qt HEAD
1406 2014-03-20 11:05:20 <Ghaleon_> i am very curious as to how block chain.info does it
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1409 2014-03-20 11:06:08 <epscy> i keep thinking about writing something based on https://github.com/kr/beanstalkd
1410 2014-03-20 11:06:25 <epscy> but i guess really it needs a SQL database to be taken seriously
1411 2014-03-20 11:06:41 <fanquake> it's only taken 44.4 minutes to build :|
1412 2014-03-20 11:07:04 <Ghaleon_> work que?? work que for what?
1413 2014-03-20 11:07:18 <epscy> Ghaleon_: for processing payments
1414 2014-03-20 11:07:30 <epscy> Ghaleon_: updating accounts, etc
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1418 2014-03-20 11:08:39 <Ghaleon_> for processing payments? hmm.. as in wallet notify fires and adds a record to the work que....
1419 2014-03-20 11:08:58 <Ghaleon_> and then u update your own database with the new user wallet balance?
1420 2014-03-20 11:10:08 <epscy> Ghaleon_: yup that kind of thing
1421 2014-03-20 11:10:22 <Malstromm> zapwallettxes worked like a charm! Malleated transactions are finally GONE from my QT!
1422 2014-03-20 11:10:45 <Ghaleon_> bitcoind, bit coin J, armoryd.py bit core insight.... these are the 4 options we as debs have now for wallet receive systems
1423 2014-03-20 11:11:08 <Ghaleon_> i am going with bitcoind and wallet notify now seems to werk
1424 2014-03-20 11:11:21 <Ghaleon_> but for high volume systems something else will be needed
1425 2014-03-20 11:11:34 <Ghaleon_> i bet blockchain.info is using bitcoind, perhaps altered only slightly
1426 2014-03-20 11:11:39 <Ghaleon_> those guys did some superhuman work
1427 2014-03-20 11:11:45 <Ghaleon_> that ben dude is a ninja machine
1428 2014-03-20 11:11:48 <Ghaleon_> mad respect
1429 2014-03-20 11:11:51 <epscy> yeah, it may be the notify stuff in bitcoind that is the bottleneck, i am not sure
1430 2014-03-20 11:12:22 <epscy> it would be interesting to write it just to see where the scaling issues actually are
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1434 2014-03-20 11:14:20 <Ghaleon_> i want to know how block chain, bit pay and coin bases systems work
1435 2014-03-20 11:14:42 <Ghaleon_> i have a feeling none of them are as uber as any of us might expect. we are all just learning....very early stages
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1442 2014-03-20 11:18:23 <fanquake> wumpus Built with Qt 5.3.0 and the issues gone. Think its safe to close that ticket now.
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1445 2014-03-20 11:21:48 <wumpus> if anyone wants to test my static gitian builds (see #3914) on their preferred OS, you can find executables here:
1446 2014-03-20 11:21:53 <wumpus> https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.9.0-linux-static.tar.gz sig: https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.9.0-linux-static.tar.gz.sig
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1463 2014-03-20 11:31:25 <wumpus> ... is anyone testing? or everyone lost interest in this suddenly? :p
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1465 2014-03-20 11:32:22 <fanquake> can't seem to download anything from those links.
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1468 2014-03-20 11:33:35 <wumpus> oh shit
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1471 2014-03-20 11:35:23 <wumpus> just lost contact to that server too.... what a wonderful day
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1479 2014-03-20 11:39:41 <stonecoldpat> is there any examples in bitcoin of calling an rpc inside an rpc?
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1484 2014-03-20 11:40:00 <wumpus> how do you mean that?
1485 2014-03-20 11:40:06 tinaivanova_ is now known as tinaivanova
1486 2014-03-20 11:41:20 <stonecoldpat> so ... imagine a custom command called doSomething(const Array params), and one of the params is a transaction id, and then i want to call getrawtransaction(txid)
1487 2014-03-20 11:41:34 <stonecoldpat> im getting stuck, as getrawtransaction is expecting a const Array which i cant seem to create
1488 2014-03-20 11:42:03 <stonecoldpat> im sure its been done before, but i cant find any examples
1489 2014-03-20 11:42:15 <wumpus> fanquake: should be up again
1490 2014-03-20 11:42:25 oleganza has joined
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1492 2014-03-20 11:43:20 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: try Object.get_array()
1493 2014-03-20 11:43:44 <wumpus> though, in general, I don't think calling RPCs inside a RPC is very nice, better to factor out the inner functionality into a function that takes normal arguments
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1495 2014-03-20 11:44:51 <stonecoldpat> i was thinking it wasnt very nice, but i need to call getrawtransaction, and i dont know if i can factor that out, if you know what i mean
1496 2014-03-20 11:45:43 <wumpus> isn't TxToJSON what you need?
1497 2014-03-20 11:46:48 <stonecoldpat> im using the data from getrawtransaction to create the CTransaction initially
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1499 2014-03-20 11:47:03 <stonecoldpat> unless theres a better way to make CTransaction with a txid?
1500 2014-03-20 11:47:19 <airbreather> main.h has bool GetTransaction(const uint256 &hash, CTransaction &tx, uint256 &hashBlock, bool fAllowSlow = false);
1501 2014-03-20 11:47:33 <wumpus> what about ehh.. .GetTransaction?
1502 2014-03-20 11:47:52 <stonecoldpat> i've never seen that, will look at that now...
1503 2014-03-20 11:48:03 <wumpus> just look at the source of getrawtransaction, it uses it too
1504 2014-03-20 11:49:25 <stonecoldpat> thats exactly what i need, cheers!
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1612 2014-03-20 13:33:25 <TheBison_> I've been waiting 14 hours to finish compiling bitcoind on my Raspberry Pi. I don't even know how much longer it will take. So frustrating.
1613 2014-03-20 13:34:14 <vegard> can't you cross-compile for it?
1614 2014-03-20 13:34:38 <TheBison_> Yeah, I should've. I keep telling myself it's almost done... lol
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1616 2014-03-20 13:35:35 <stonecoldpat> TheBison_: dont fool yourself its the pi, itll never be done :P
1617 2014-03-20 13:35:42 <TheBison_> lol
1618 2014-03-20 13:36:06 cajg has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1619 2014-03-20 13:36:22 <TheBison_> Actually I just installed QEMU on a c3.xlarge Amazon EC2 instance. I want to see how it performs compared to the Pi itself.
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1624 2014-03-20 13:47:05 <TheBison_> EC2 c3.xlarge instance emulating ARMv6 architecture seems to have worse cpu performance than the Raspberry Pi itself... Wow.
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1631 2014-03-20 13:49:16 <buZz> lol
1632 2014-03-20 13:49:26 <Imbue> sorry; pebkac
1633 2014-03-20 13:49:44 <buZz> TheBison_: you dont need ARMv6 architecture to compile for ARMv6 architecture
1634 2014-03-20 13:50:29 ryanxcharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1635 2014-03-20 13:50:34 <TheBison_> buZz are you referring to cross-compiling?
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1640 2014-03-20 13:52:54 <buZz> obviously :P yes
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1643 2014-03-20 13:53:37 <ascent_> I need at least 3 BTC on testnet3, anyone got a spare and can send me? mhWUEunKwEatGZTeDiC5CCUffMXbwimpGg
1644 2014-03-20 13:54:10 JackH has quit (Quit: JackH)
1645 2014-03-20 13:54:39 <Imbue> sent
1646 2014-03-20 13:54:43 <sipa> ;;google testnet faucet
1647 2014-03-20 13:54:44 <gribble> TP's TestNet Faucet: <https://tpfaucet.appspot.com/>; Testnet - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet>; Bitcoin faucet - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_faucet>
1648 2014-03-20 13:54:59 <anarchystar> any https experts in here?
1649 2014-03-20 13:55:00 <anarchystar> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=523603
1650 2014-03-20 13:55:16 <TheBison_> buzz Yeah, I need to try that out next. It's not only compilations that take so long on the Pi though, even an apt-get upgrade takes over 60 minutes... Such an annoying device to develop on.
1651 2014-03-20 13:55:23 <ascent_> Imbue: thanks a lot!
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1653 2014-03-20 13:55:52 <buZz> raspberry pi is pointless imho
1654 2014-03-20 13:56:08 <buZz> it was already a ~8 year old cpu architecture when -just- released
1655 2014-03-20 13:57:05 <TheBison_> Well there aren't many better options at this form factor and a $35 price point.
1656 2014-03-20 13:57:21 <buZz> spend 10 dollar more and get a 1000x better system
1657 2014-03-20 13:57:51 <buZz> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1278
1658 2014-03-20 13:58:14 HeySteve2 has joined
1659 2014-03-20 13:58:22 <TheBison_> Haven't tried out the BeagleBone
1660 2014-03-20 13:58:26 <buZz> (you can even buy it with btc on that link, although not in stock now)
1661 2014-03-20 13:58:28 <buZz> you should
1662 2014-03-20 13:58:43 <buZz> it will teach you quite quickly that raspi doesnt deserve any time ;)
1663 2014-03-20 13:58:50 <buZz> cubieboard is also nice
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1669 2014-03-20 13:59:55 <TheBison_> Hard to tell in the photo, it looks like the BeagleBone is slightly smaller than the Pi?
1670 2014-03-20 14:02:04 <stonecoldpat> BuZz: that looks awesome
1671 2014-03-20 14:02:22 <buZz> TheBison_: yes
1672 2014-03-20 14:02:31 <buZz> but i dont think it differs a lot
1673 2014-03-20 14:02:36 <buZz> cubieboard makes a lot more sense imho
1674 2014-03-20 14:02:40 <buZz> as it also has SATA
1675 2014-03-20 14:02:56 <buZz> and on the cubieboard2 model twice as many processors
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1677 2014-03-20 14:06:33 <iwilcox> The whole point of RPis is that they're cheap. I hear running a node on them is extremely painful plus I wouldn't entirely trust the node since it's not even an officially supported Debian architecture, which I'll bet means inexperienced people recompiling base libs that are not ready for the differences.
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1679 2014-03-20 14:08:48 <TheBison_> Well, I'm mainly looking for a small, cheap device that I can use for generating/signing/broadcasting transactions.
1680 2014-03-20 14:08:57 <TheBison_> Pi should be able to handle that much.
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1684 2014-03-20 14:13:17 <thermoman> will -zapwallettxes shrink the wallet.dat file like fixwallet.py --notxes did?
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1686 2014-03-20 14:13:46 <thermoman> e.g.: is a new wallet.dat created and then moved into the place of the old wallet.dat or is only the content pruned?
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1688 2014-03-20 14:14:14 <wumpus> only the content is pruned IIRC
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1690 2014-03-20 14:15:03 <thermoman> ok then i could afterwards to a dump and load
1691 2014-03-20 14:15:13 <thermoman> which should create a smaller file
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1694 2014-03-20 14:17:54 <helo> afaik the wallet shouldn't shrink once the transactions are added back in from the blockchain.
1695 2014-03-20 14:18:44 <helo> it will in most cases be the same size
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1699 2014-03-20 14:20:14 <thermoman> helo: we used fixwallet.py --notxes and then -rescan before and the size dropped significantly
1700 2014-03-20 14:20:23 <thermoman> from 93MB to 1.3MB
1701 2014-03-20 14:20:28 <thermoman> e.g.
1702 2014-03-20 14:21:18 <thermoman> mhh i might be wrong ... 1.3MB was after fixwallet, 24MB or so was after -rescan
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1706 2014-03-20 14:23:55 <Michail1> Anyone yet mention that Norton antivirus detects Bitcoin Core uninstall of a Cloud.9 security risk and automatically deletes it?
1707 2014-03-20 14:24:46 <helo> they're just doing their part to keep full nodes running
1708 2014-03-20 14:25:50 <Michail1> Threat name: Suspicious.Cloud.9
1709 2014-03-20 14:25:50 <Michail1> Threat type: Heuristic Virus. Detection of a threat based on malware heuristics.
1710 2014-03-20 14:25:50 <Michail1> File: c:\program files\bitcoin\ uninstall.exe Removed
1711 2014-03-20 14:25:50 <Michail1> File Thumbprint - SHA:
1712 2014-03-20 14:25:51 <Michail1> f7ffc4002439c6f304e39704942a25b0d38588f22f64ea22117664b192d30f6b
1713 2014-03-20 14:27:28 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1714 2014-03-20 14:27:38 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1719 2014-03-20 14:29:58 <Michail1> Bitcoin Core now sucks if I have to specifically go find an address through menus, etc just to sign a message.
1720 2014-03-20 14:30:10 <helo> can someone compare that sha with their own uninstall.exe? maybe Michail1's got infected...
1721 2014-03-20 14:30:13 <Michail1> Question, can I dump it and put back 8.6 without a problem?
1722 2014-03-20 14:30:42 <Michail1> mine isn't infected. download direct from bitcoin.org (unless they are infected)
1723 2014-03-20 14:31:02 <helo> if your system is compromised, it could have been changed after you installed it.
1724 2014-03-20 14:31:11 benrcole1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1725 2014-03-20 14:31:20 <Michail1> LOL. Norton detects and deletes upon install. not after
1726 2014-03-20 14:31:27 _ImI_ has joined
1727 2014-03-20 14:31:57 <helo> huehuehue, okay then
1728 2014-03-20 14:32:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Michail1: I have N360 and there wasn't anything like that
1729 2014-03-20 14:34:07 <Michail1> It's all good. I don't like 9.0 anyway. Extra pain in the ass to have to go through extra buttons just to sign messages.
1730 2014-03-20 14:34:08 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1731 2014-03-20 14:34:34 yubrew has quit ()
1732 2014-03-20 14:34:58 <helo> there are probably other more compelling technical reasons to keep 0.9.0 regardless
1733 2014-03-20 14:35:46 <Michail1> Microsoft says the same thing. It's all good, not trying to troll. Have a good day.
1734 2014-03-20 14:36:03 <helo> maybe the 0.9.0 UI for signmessage needs to be streamlined, but i'd be hesitant to revert
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1741 2014-03-20 14:40:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, I'm not sure I've signed a message since installing 0.9
1742 2014-03-20 14:44:02 ryanxcharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1749 2014-03-20 14:50:45 <helo> i haven't done a signmessage in bitcoin-qt in probably a year :/
1750 2014-03-20 14:52:02 <helo> i imagine it's pretty easy to release annoying GUI quirks without a lot of prerelease GUI testers
1751 2014-03-20 14:53:07 <bdhuser> Im building a node, and Im wondering, is it feasible to just keep all unspent transactions in a hash table or something? I have no feel for how many there actually are
1752 2014-03-20 14:53:41 anton000 has joined
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1756 2014-03-20 14:54:33 <epscy> bdhuser: i think the UXTO is about 300mb
1757 2014-03-20 14:55:20 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1758 2014-03-20 14:56:00 lachesis has joined
1759 2014-03-20 14:56:37 <bdhuser> ok, so thats not so bad. does the standard client do anything more clever than just keep them in hash table?
1760 2014-03-20 14:56:42 pbuchan has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1761 2014-03-20 14:59:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bdhuser: if you can read c++, it's documented
1762 2014-03-20 14:59:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:-P
1763 2014-03-20 15:00:17 <Imbue> bdhuser: i have been writing a small program to crawl the utxo db
1764 2014-03-20 15:00:31 <Imbue> bdhuser: it is a leveldb table with key = txid and value = serialised compressed unspent outputs
1765 2014-03-20 15:01:14 <Imbue> i counted about 2-3million
1766 2014-03-20 15:01:14 bbrian has joined
1767 2014-03-20 15:01:31 <Imbue> remove 'table' from that.. not sure how that worked its way in
1768 2014-03-20 15:03:41 <Imbue> i have essentially 0 cpp experience and i could understand the code, it is very well commented
1769 2014-03-20 15:05:32 johba has quit (Quit: johba)
1770 2014-03-20 15:06:50 <bdhuser> Imbue: cool, thanks, Ive just avoided the original source like the plague because of strong rumors in the opposite direction, will have a look.
1771 2014-03-20 15:06:52 HeySteve has joined
1772 2014-03-20 15:07:05 [\\\] has joined
1773 2014-03-20 15:08:55 Ghaleon_ has quit (Quit: Ghaleon_)
1774 2014-03-20 15:09:00 <Imbue> bdhuser: 99.9% is described in comments really
1775 2014-03-20 15:09:08 JackH has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1776 2014-03-20 15:09:11 HeySteve2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1777 2014-03-20 15:09:31 <Imbue> :)
1778 2014-03-20 15:09:35 <wumpus> most of it is pretty simple code anyway, as far as that's possible with C++
1779 2014-03-20 15:11:09 <skinnkavaj> Hiring a good backend coder. You should be an expert at bitcoin and blockchain analysis. Paying you good. Please pm
1780 2014-03-20 15:11:45 <Michail1> one more note.... you can now generate addresses without entering password. Before, you had to enter your passphrase to generate an address.
1781 2014-03-20 15:11:51 askmike has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1782 2014-03-20 15:11:54 banghouse has joined
1783 2014-03-20 15:12:34 <wumpus> indeed, as long as you have keys in your keypool
1784 2014-03-20 15:12:40 raid5 has joined
1785 2014-03-20 15:12:48 <Michail1> Also, windows installer installs core as well. So, it doesn't overwrite the prior install. little dangerous having both. Maybe should suggest uninstalling one before installing the new version.
1786 2014-03-20 15:13:36 wateratosthenes has joined
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1789 2014-03-20 15:14:22 <Michail1> It does this without updating the shortcut. So, shortcut still fires up 8.6
1790 2014-03-20 15:14:23 llllllllll has joined
1791 2014-03-20 15:15:31 <wumpus> it's mentioned about three times in the release note that it is recommended to uninstall old versions, especially on windows
1792 2014-03-20 15:15:50 <wumpus> not that it's dangerous to keep old versions, but it can be confusing
1793 2014-03-20 15:15:53 <Michail1> can't uninstall core since the uninstalled was detected as a virus.
1794 2014-03-20 15:16:06 <Imbue> lol
1795 2014-03-20 15:16:18 <wumpus> LOL
1796 2014-03-20 15:16:24 <Michail1> I think it's dangerous if anything is changed in the wallet.dat file which might cause a conflict
1797 2014-03-20 15:16:25 * Imbue detects the virus scanner as a virus
1798 2014-03-20 15:17:00 <wumpus> wallets are forward and backward compatible between most bitcoin releases
1799 2014-03-20 15:17:07 <Michail1> not bitching here. just pointing out a lot of potential issues people might have.
1800 2014-03-20 15:17:15 Neozonz has joined
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1802 2014-03-20 15:17:15 Neozonz has joined
1803 2014-03-20 15:17:16 <Michail1> "between [most] bitcoin releases"
1804 2014-03-20 15:17:22 askmike has joined
1805 2014-03-20 15:18:21 <Michail1> You guys mentioned not signing addresses. Well, I would think the -dev would be the mostly likely people to be signing :)
1806 2014-03-20 15:18:27 <wumpus> we have too many real issues to worry about potential issues
1807 2014-03-20 15:18:28 <wumpus> :P
1808 2014-03-20 15:18:37 <Michail1> k
1809 2014-03-20 15:19:34 Neozonz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1810 2014-03-20 15:19:41 <Michail1> I think Microsoft says the same thing on all the newly added features as well. The main concern is the Norton 360 detecting as a virus..
1811 2014-03-20 15:20:08 <Imbue> what codename does it give it
1812 2014-03-20 15:20:25 <Imbue> i am guessing probably something like w32.packer or ridiculous non-virus
1813 2014-03-20 15:20:30 <Michail1> [07:24] <Michail1> Threat name: Suspicious.Cloud.9
1814 2014-03-20 15:20:44 <wumpus> well if it has a virus you should be happy that it got uninstalled! it protected you :-)
1815 2014-03-20 15:20:52 <Michail1> lol
1816 2014-03-20 15:21:22 <Michail1> yup, and now can't uninstall core
1817 2014-03-20 15:21:24 <wumpus> security theater is the best theater
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1832 2014-03-20 15:28:13 <skinnkavaj> Using more computational power than many of the worlds super computers, Bitcoin is capable of processing 0.07% of Visa's transaction volume
1833 2014-03-20 15:28:41 <Imbue> lol.
1834 2014-03-20 15:28:44 ryanxcharles has joined
1835 2014-03-20 15:28:50 <wumpus> how inspiring
1836 2014-03-20 15:29:48 sserrano44 has joined
1837 2014-03-20 15:31:25 raid5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1838 2014-03-20 15:31:34 <skinnkavaj> Isn't it time to raise the block size limit? When we already have industrial mining, would it be that bad if the ASIC manufactorers also had to put in a good hard drive
1839 2014-03-20 15:31:52 <wumpus> by 2200, all the inner planets have been converted to solar-powered computer systems, all for running bitcoin, say again that it's not a virus :-)
1840 2014-03-20 15:32:07 <Imbue> wumpus: bitcoin is actually skynet
1841 2014-03-20 15:32:20 <Imbue> it is a trick to force us to redirect computing power towards it
1842 2014-03-20 15:32:21 <Imbue> :p
1843 2014-03-20 15:32:44 <Imbue> silly humans thinking all they are doing is sha256
1844 2014-03-20 15:32:49 raid5 has joined
1845 2014-03-20 15:32:52 <wumpus> yep, it's worse than skynet, at least skynet was intelligent, we're bested by a simple algorithm based on our own greed :P
1846 2014-03-20 15:34:36 <wumpus> "Suspicious.Cloud.9 is a detection technology designed to detect entirely new malware threats without traditional signatures. "
1847 2014-03-20 15:34:55 <Imbue> yes, i found that. basically, we're not telling you.
1848 2014-03-20 15:35:22 <wumpus> Threat Assessment: Wild
1849 2014-03-20 15:35:27 <Imbue> wild!
1850 2014-03-20 15:35:31 <Imbue> lol
1851 2014-03-20 15:35:41 <Imbue> this uninstaller is wild, man.
1852 2014-03-20 15:35:56 <Imbue> who would want to uninstall bitcoin core?
1853 2014-03-20 15:35:56 mhanne has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1854 2014-03-20 15:35:59 <Imbue> crazy.
1855 2014-03-20 15:36:00 <wumpus> I'm not sure if I should be laughing or crying about an "anti virus" page like this :)
1856 2014-03-20 15:36:03 mhanne has joined
1857 2014-03-20 15:36:43 ThomasV has joined
1858 2014-03-20 15:37:22 <wumpus> maybe security snake oil isn't that bad a business to be in
1859 2014-03-20 15:38:34 <wumpus> I think we should use some code obfuscation and packing techniques on the uninstaller to bypass the virus scanners
1860 2014-03-20 15:38:57 <Imbue> wumpus: then it will probably fall into a 'packed exe' catchall and be tagged as bad anyway
1861 2014-03-20 15:39:23 <wumpus> well the bad guys always know how to bypass these things
1862 2014-03-20 15:39:24 <Imbue> this executable has too much entropy! deleted
1863 2014-03-20 15:39:38 W0rmDr1nk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1864 2014-03-20 15:39:48 <banghouse> test
1865 2014-03-20 15:40:13 hearn has joined
1866 2014-03-20 15:40:13 <Michail1> wumpus - Remember, it is already difficult enough to get new people into bitcoin. When you get giant red screens from Norton saying something is a virus and then you can't even uninstall bitcoin client after the dectection and removal of the uninstaller, it simply looks bad.
1867 2014-03-20 15:40:20 oleganza has quit (Quit: oleganza)
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1869 2014-03-20 15:40:33 <Imbue> Michail1: the thing is, there is nothing that can be done here except sucking Norton's dick
1870 2014-03-20 15:40:34 _ImI_ has quit (Quit: _ImI_)
1871 2014-03-20 15:40:41 <Imbue> and not only norton but every AV company
1872 2014-03-20 15:40:51 _alp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1874 2014-03-20 15:41:04 <Michail1> bitcoin isn't detected. It's the uninstaller. HEH.
1875 2014-03-20 15:41:15 <Michail1> You can have bitcoin, but you can't get rid of it. HEH
1876 2014-03-20 15:41:51 <wumpus> the uninstaller is really the most boring, run of the mill, auto-generated uninstaller that is possible
1877 2014-03-20 15:41:59 <gavinandresen> I never recommend the core client to new people; a phone-based lightweight wallet is much better for the vast majority of people.
1878 2014-03-20 15:42:11 <Imbue> either you spend time mucking around trying to evade their detection or you have to kneel to them and ask them to exclude it
1879 2014-03-20 15:42:21 <wumpus> if that already triggers automated virus warnings, all hope is lost
1880 2014-03-20 15:42:38 qwebirc95820 has joined
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1882 2014-03-20 15:43:13 <wumpus> gavinandresen: indeed, the core client is for enthousiasts that want to support the network or need the extra verification, most people should definitely use a SPV wallet
1883 2014-03-20 15:43:19 wizgot has joined
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1885 2014-03-20 15:43:51 <gavinandresen> wumpus: yup. Core client should be marketed as "for geeks who want to really get down and dirty"
1886 2014-03-20 15:44:00 tonokip has joined
1887 2014-03-20 15:44:14 <wumpus> yep
1888 2014-03-20 15:44:37 oleganza has joined
1889 2014-03-20 15:44:55 <Michail1> I don't see anywhere it being said that you should remove the old client before installing the new one.
1890 2014-03-20 15:45:16 <wumpus> Michail1: the release notes mentions it three times at least
1891 2014-03-20 15:45:25 <stonecoldpat> +1 wumpus
1892 2014-03-20 15:45:47 <Michail1> Was .9 simply rushed to get out.
1893 2014-03-20 15:45:49 <gavinandresen> wumpus: RE: 32-bit static linked Linux binaries: are there many people running 32-bit Linux? In the spirit of "support less" we could drop it....
1894 2014-03-20 15:45:51 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1895 2014-03-20 15:45:52 <Michail1> link to the "release notes"
1896 2014-03-20 15:46:01 <Imbue> Michail1: it's like, line #6
1897 2014-03-20 15:46:06 <Michail1> link to the "release notes"
1898 2014-03-20 15:46:07 <arubi> I run 32bit :(
1899 2014-03-20 15:46:08 <wumpus> and I think it's really important that we split off the wallet to a seperate project so that it can have a different release cycle, it makes no sense anymore to release it together with P2P infrastructure updates
1900 2014-03-20 15:46:32 <wumpus> gavinandresen: many cheap VMs/cloud boxes are still 32-bit
1901 2014-03-20 15:46:45 <gavinandresen> wumpus: really? bah.
1902 2014-03-20 15:47:10 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1903 2014-03-20 15:47:23 <Michail1> "On Windows, do not forget to uninstall all earlier versions of the Bitcoin client first, especially if you are switching to the 64-bit version."
1904 2014-03-20 15:47:25 <Imbue> Michail1: https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt
1905 2014-03-20 15:47:31 <wumpus> Michail1: no, 0.9 was not rushed, if anything it was delayed and delayed and delayed
1906 2014-03-20 15:47:50 <Imbue> granted this could possibly be more clear on bitcoin.org, i can't see a link to release notes next to the downloads
1907 2014-03-20 15:48:01 <Michail1> Ok, done bitching. deleting .9 until I am absolutely forced to use it. Thanks for your time. :)
1908 2014-03-20 15:48:10 dansmith_btc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1909 2014-03-20 15:48:14 <wumpus> you'll never be forced to use anything
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1913 2014-03-20 15:49:49 <stonecoldpat> for the hard work that people did for that update, that is a disgusting tone :/
1914 2014-03-20 15:50:07 <ne0futur> many people are still running 32 bit linux ( and most people dont need 64 bits )
1915 2014-03-20 15:50:23 <wumpus> stonecoldpat: it is, but this is the bitcoin community, we have thick skin or we wouldn't survive a day
1916 2014-03-20 15:50:26 gingpark has joined
1917 2014-03-20 15:50:29 <Imbue> i am wondering if many livecd dists are 32
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1922 2014-03-20 15:51:43 <wumpus> yes, dropping 32-bit linux is not a good idea yet, it's also not that hard to support
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1924 2014-03-20 15:52:59 <gavinandresen> thick skin⦠speak for yourself, Michail1 made me cry. :-(
1925 2014-03-20 15:53:08 <Michail1> sorry.
1926 2014-03-20 15:53:11 <wumpus> aww :(
1927 2014-03-20 15:53:37 * Michail1 apologizes.
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1932 2014-03-20 15:54:49 <wumpus> gavinandresen: with linux it's not so much 32/64 bit that gives issues, but the many glibc versions
1933 2014-03-20 15:55:08 <wumpus> gavinandresen: hence adding static builds in #3914
1934 2014-03-20 15:55:38 drayah has joined
1935 2014-03-20 15:55:45 <gavinandresen> Hey⦠anybody here a kick-ass C++/python coder who wants to come work with me in Amherst MA for a year? The Foundation is going to experiment with funding a one-year fellowship, to see if it helps my TODO list get shorter quicker.
1936 2014-03-20 15:56:05 bbrian has joined
1937 2014-03-20 15:57:18 <venzen> that's a great offer and opportunity gavinandresen, but i have to respectfully decline due to other engagements
1938 2014-03-20 15:57:28 holder365 has joined
1939 2014-03-20 15:57:50 <venzen> :) some lucky so-and-so is going to have the learning opportunity of a lifetime
1940 2014-03-20 15:58:21 wizgot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1941 2014-03-20 15:58:29 Ghaleon has joined
1942 2014-03-20 15:59:50 <ne0futur> +1 for static building against glibc problems
1943 2014-03-20 16:00:38 <ne0futur> imo a big part of the success of firefox isrelated to providing fast and easy static build for everyone
1944 2014-03-20 16:00:39 johba has joined
1945 2014-03-20 16:00:54 <TheBison_> When I'm building bitcoin core, what options can I safely disable if I'm just trying to run a client that generate/signs/broadcasts transactions? I'm thinking: ./configure --enable-tests=no --with-gui=no
1946 2014-03-20 16:01:45 Guyver2 has joined
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1948 2014-03-20 16:02:36 <venzen> TheBison_: i did the following for a light core: --without-gui --disable-wallet --without-miniupnpc --enable-hardening --disable-tests
1949 2014-03-20 16:02:38 <wumpus> TheBison_: if you don't need a wallet, you can also use --disable-wallet
1950 2014-03-20 16:03:01 <venzen> wumpus: snap ;)
1951 2014-03-20 16:03:12 <TheBison_> venzen Thanks! I'll try that out, and see how it works for me.
1952 2014-03-20 16:03:13 <wumpus> means you also don't need that awful bdb4.8
1953 2014-03-20 16:03:17 benten has joined
1954 2014-03-20 16:03:26 <TheBison_> wumpus Actually I do want to keep wallet functionality.
1955 2014-03-20 16:03:41 benten is now known as Guest45276
1956 2014-03-20 16:04:50 <TheBison_> I'm running Raspbian on a Pi and I forget what version of BDB it's using, but it's pre-4.8...
1957 2014-03-20 16:04:51 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1959 2014-03-20 16:05:17 <TheBison_> I have to use the --with-incompatible-bdb flag... Hopefully it doesn't cause weirdness in the wallet file.
1960 2014-03-20 16:05:43 <venzen> TheBison_: man, you're entering a world of pain with BDB on Raspbian...
1961 2014-03-20 16:05:47 freesbies has joined
1962 2014-03-20 16:06:13 <wumpus> TheBison_: shouldn't be an issue, as long as you don't try to copy wallets from the real world :p
1963 2014-03-20 16:06:17 HANTI is now known as hanti
1964 2014-03-20 16:06:24 <TheBison_> eh...
1965 2014-03-20 16:06:43 <TheBison_> Exporting private keys and importing them into other clients should be ok though?
1966 2014-03-20 16:06:55 <wumpus> TheBison_: importwallet/dumpwallet is better
1967 2014-03-20 16:07:02 <venzen> TheBison_: what might be a good timesaver is to compile statically on a nother machine (e.g. Ubuntu) and then just copy the binaries over...
1968 2014-03-20 16:07:25 smash has joined
1969 2014-03-20 16:07:34 <venzen> or that kinda defeats the purpose dunnit?
1970 2014-03-20 16:08:07 smash_ has joined
1971 2014-03-20 16:08:17 <venzen> the purpose of Pi..i mean
1972 2014-03-20 16:08:17 <TheBison_> venzen Yeah, I'm looking into cross-compiling from another machine also. Also testing out compile performance on QEMU on a high-compute EC2 instance.
1973 2014-03-20 16:08:37 <TheBison_> Trying a few different things right now.
1974 2014-03-20 16:09:20 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1975 2014-03-20 16:09:32 <venzen> great - good luck - be sure to report back on that Pi compile - some people report little performance gain, but its always worth keeping tabs between versions
1976 2014-03-20 16:09:37 <wumpus> cross compiling for ARM should be pretty easy, at least ubuntu has two ARM toolchains installable (arm-gnu-abi and eabi)
1977 2014-03-20 16:09:41 lorenzoasr has joined
1978 2014-03-20 16:10:12 <wumpus> eh gnueabi and gnueabihf
1979 2014-03-20 16:10:32 <TheBison_> I've never done cross-compiling before, so that's something I have to read up on.
1980 2014-03-20 16:10:52 <bdhuser> Imbue: LOL, main.cpp is like 5K lines! how is this self-explanatory! :P
1981 2014-03-20 16:11:19 <Imbue> bdhuser: look at serialize.h/cpp, coins.h/cpp, txdb.h/cpp
1982 2014-03-20 16:11:34 smash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1983 2014-03-20 16:11:59 <Imbue> bdhuser: for my (toy, not mission critical) purposes just using search function on github was fine
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1987 2014-03-20 16:16:21 <lorenzoasr> hello
1988 2014-03-20 16:17:33 tiago__ is now known as tiago
1989 2014-03-20 16:17:38 <wumpus> TheBison_: the idea is to use compiler and binutil that are prefixed with a host tuple, for example arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ ... you can generally pass this host tuple to configure as --host=arm-linux-gnueabi and then you can hope it will do the right thing
1990 2014-03-20 16:17:42 tiago has quit (Changing host)
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1992 2014-03-20 16:17:59 <wumpus> if not, the real cross compile fun starts :-)
1993 2014-03-20 16:18:13 <helo> TheBison_: i recommend you set up an ubuntu chroot which you configure for cross compiling
1994 2014-03-20 16:18:20 grandmaster is now known as dansmith_btc
1995 2014-03-20 16:18:21 pigeons_ is now known as pigeons
1996 2014-03-20 16:18:29 <TheBison_> wumpus: Thanks. I'm reading this blog post here, which seems to have a lot of info on cross-compiling for armv6 on Ubuntu: http://hertaville.com/2012/09/28/development-environment-raspberry-pi-cross-compiler/
1997 2014-03-20 16:18:50 pigeons is now known as Guest74670
1998 2014-03-20 16:19:29 Guest74670 is now known as pigeons
1999 2014-03-20 16:19:34 realazthat has joined
2000 2014-03-20 16:20:03 Soligor has joined
2001 2014-03-20 16:20:05 <TheBison_> The version of Bitcoin Core that's included in the official Raspbian repos is like 0.3.24 or something super old. lol
2002 2014-03-20 16:20:40 <wumpus> sad :)
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2004 2014-03-20 16:24:21 <Michail1> reading late. TheBison_ - trying to compile bitcoind on a pi? If so, I can help. Takes about an hour to compile. if you want full node, then it takes a little over 3 weeks to sync because of the chainstate (I can give you a copy of the current chainstate). Or should I read further up?
2005 2014-03-20 16:24:40 petcat has joined
2006 2014-03-20 16:25:15 <TheBison_> Michail1 Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. I don't need the blockchain. I want to use it for generating/signing/broadcasting transactions only.
2007 2014-03-20 16:25:50 <TheBison_> Michail1 Are you cross-compiling from a desktop machine?
2008 2014-03-20 16:25:53 <Michail1> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191729.40
2009 2014-03-20 16:26:02 <hearn> some people have used bitcoinj for that
2010 2014-03-20 16:26:09 <Michail1> no, I did it on the pi.
2011 2014-03-20 16:26:33 <hearn> then they can connect it to a bitcoin core on some other computer for max trust (or just use p2p network if you're feeling cheap)
2012 2014-03-20 16:26:37 realazthat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2013 2014-03-20 16:26:39 <TheBison_> Michail1 How are you compiling in 1 hour? Mine has been running for like 15 hours now, and still not finished.
2014 2014-03-20 16:27:00 <Michail1> maybe I should read up what you're trying to do. hold on
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2019 2014-03-20 16:28:25 <TheBison_> Michail1 Nothing special really... Yesterday I configured with "--with-incompatible-bdb". Didn't use any other flags. Ran make, and it's been going for over 15 hours now.
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2023 2014-03-20 16:28:43 <tiago> oh wow
2024 2014-03-20 16:28:51 <tiago> 15 hours?
2025 2014-03-20 16:28:58 <TheBison_> Using a 1GB swap file, because it runs out of memory while compiling otherwise.
2026 2014-03-20 16:28:59 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2027 2014-03-20 16:29:08 <TheBison_> 15 hours! Yeah... It's slowly moving along.
2028 2014-03-20 16:29:11 <stonecoldpat> TheBison_ I think that recreates the blockchain?
2029 2014-03-20 16:29:22 <tiago> maybe you can cross-compile in your desktop
2030 2014-03-20 16:29:48 <tiago> stonecoldpat, he's just compiling
2031 2014-03-20 16:29:49 <TheBison_> Yeah, I kept telling myself it was going to finish soon... But I'm reading up on cross-compiling from an ubuntu machine right now.
2032 2014-03-20 16:30:03 <TheBison_> I should've disabled tests though.
2033 2014-03-20 16:30:05 <stonecoldpat> just compiling? oh mummy
2034 2014-03-20 16:30:15 <TheBison_> lol
2035 2014-03-20 16:30:49 <TheBison_> I'm at "CXX test_bitcoin-rpc_wallet_tests.o"
2036 2014-03-20 16:30:57 <TheBison_> I think I'm getting close... But I've been telling myself that for hours. lol
2037 2014-03-20 16:31:06 <Michail1> sorry, don't know what "--with-incompatible-bdb" does. can't even find reference.
2038 2014-03-20 16:31:19 <Imbue> Michail1: allows compilation with bdb != 4.8
2039 2014-03-20 16:31:27 HeySteve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2040 2014-03-20 16:31:43 <TheBison_> Michail1 The version of Berkley DB installed on this device is under 4.8 and required that flag.
2041 2014-03-20 16:31:55 <TheBison_> Otherwise it was throwing an error.
2042 2014-03-20 16:32:03 <hearn> TheBison_: i really suggest rethinking your approach
2043 2014-03-20 16:32:15 <hearn> there are lots of tools you can use to sign transactions and talk to the p2p network without running Core
2044 2014-03-20 16:32:20 <hearn> which on a pi is basically a non-starter
2045 2014-03-20 16:32:58 [BNC]dansmith has joined
2046 2014-03-20 16:33:13 <TheBison_> hearn, what do you suggest? Bitcoinjs or something?
2047 2014-03-20 16:33:20 _alp_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2048 2014-03-20 16:33:46 <hearn> i suggest bitcoinj, because that's my library ;) there are lightweight JVMs for ARM. someone even managed to get a bitcoinj app working on a Lego RCX brick
2049 2014-03-20 16:34:01 <hearn> it displayed a qrcode on its lcd screen and controlled a motor when it received money.
2050 2014-03-20 16:34:44 <TheBison_> I haven't done a lot of reading on bitcoinj, but it has a JSON RCP interface right?
2051 2014-03-20 16:34:59 ryanxcharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2052 2014-03-20 16:35:29 <hearn> no, it's a library. you write code that uses it. you can write in any jvm language: java, javascript, python, ruby, lisp, functional languages etc ...
2053 2014-03-20 16:35:35 ryanxcharles has joined
2054 2014-03-20 16:35:39 saivann has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2055 2014-03-20 16:36:16 <TheBison_> got it
2056 2014-03-20 16:36:30 <imjonathan> Mike (Hearn) is being modest bitcoinj is _the_ library to use.
2057 2014-03-20 16:36:49 <venzen> hearn: well, if Python's in the list then it's OK then! :)
2058 2014-03-20 16:37:02 <TheBison_> OK, thanks. I'll read more on bitcoinj and look at some code examples.
2059 2014-03-20 16:37:20 saivann has joined
2060 2014-03-20 16:37:48 <hearn> TheBison_: cool. bitcoinj.org and #bitcoinj are your friends. there's also the mailing list
2061 2014-03-20 16:37:49 <hearn> hey saivann
2062 2014-03-20 16:38:03 <saivann> hearn: pong
2063 2014-03-20 16:38:05 <TheBison_> hearn: Thank you.
2064 2014-03-20 16:38:10 <hearn> how's it going?
2065 2014-03-20 16:38:18 <saivann> hearn: TD = hearn?
2066 2014-03-20 16:38:34 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2067 2014-03-20 16:39:49 t7 has quit (Quit: weekend)
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2070 2014-03-20 16:42:40 <hearn> saivann: yes
2071 2014-03-20 16:42:49 <hearn> saivann: i decided a new nick would be more helpful for visitors to #bitcoinj
2072 2014-03-20 16:43:03 <saivann> hearn: Indeed, did you want to ask me something?
2073 2014-03-20 16:43:23 <hearn> ah, not really, was just saying hi. though now you mention it ...
2074 2014-03-20 16:43:38 <jgarzik> saivann, hehe, a fair question now that we have two Mike Hearns. http://www.mikehearn.com/Hosted-Files/Nakamoto-Could-Newsweek-Have-Known/index.html
2075 2014-03-20 16:43:57 <saivann> :)
2076 2014-03-20 16:44:12 <jgarzik> Though "hearn" does not exactly disambiguate :)
2077 2014-03-20 16:44:26 <hearn> the use of IRC disambiguates in this case, i suspect :)
2078 2014-03-20 16:44:27 <jgarzik> maybe s/hearn/robotOverlord/
2079 2014-03-20 16:44:37 <lorenzoasr> someone is experienced with BIP 11-13-16 multisig m-of-n p2sh?
2080 2014-03-20 16:44:49 <jgarzik> lorenzoasr, yes, someone is.
2081 2014-03-20 16:45:23 <lorenzoasr> thnx jgarzik , what is the situation actally? wich percentage of miners works on P2SH ?
2082 2014-03-20 16:45:41 <kjj> ;seen someone
2083 2014-03-20 16:45:50 mikalv has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2084 2014-03-20 16:45:56 <jgarzik> lorenzoasr, all
2085 2014-03-20 16:45:57 <shesek> lorenzoasr, pretty much all of them
2086 2014-03-20 16:46:06 tiago has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2087 2014-03-20 16:46:12 <jgarzik> all except deepbit ;p
2088 2014-03-20 16:46:25 <lorenzoasr> the BIP is still marked as Final but not Active, so is born my doubt
2089 2014-03-20 16:47:00 cbeams has joined
2090 2014-03-20 16:47:39 <lorenzoasr> You can confirm that right now only standard script are accepted in serialize parameter ?
2091 2014-03-20 16:48:53 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: RE: mastercoin/OP_RETURN: what's the current thinking on Best Way To Do It? Seems if I was to do it I'd just embed 20-byte RIPEMD160 hashes in OP_RETURN, and fetch the real data from a DHT or website (or any-of-several websites). Blockchain as reference ledger, not as data storage.
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2101 2014-03-20 16:56:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, precisely
2102 2014-03-20 16:56:34 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, or, colored coins which just define rules, but do not abuse UTXO space
2103 2014-03-20 16:56:38 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: have time to write up a garzikrant ? I'm tempted to write a "So you want to use OP_RETURNâ¦" blog post
2104 2014-03-20 16:57:03 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, not today. Yesterday was !coding, today is coding. :)
2105 2014-03-20 16:57:23 <kjj> didn't the mastercoin dude scam a huge amount of funding from the gullible? shouldn't they be paying someone to figure this stuff out?
2106 2014-03-20 16:57:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, polishing off a payment channel client/server: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party
2107 2014-03-20 16:57:39 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: cool
2108 2014-03-20 16:57:50 <gavinandresen> kjj: last I heard they were paying petertodd to figure that stuff outâ¦.
2109 2014-03-20 16:58:03 <jgarzik> kjj, "scam" might be a strong word... raised a boatload of funds, and they are indeed actively paying developers.
2110 2014-03-20 16:58:12 <jgarzik> kjj, mastercoin project is far more transparent than counterparty
2111 2014-03-20 16:58:23 <hearn> jgarzik: if you like i can bring up a PayFile server and you can try downloading from it, if you like
2112 2014-03-20 16:58:28 <hearn> jgarzik: that'd be an interesting way to test interop :)
2113 2014-03-20 16:58:38 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2114 2014-03-20 16:58:39 <hearn> or at least point you in the right direction to do that ...
2115 2014-03-20 16:58:51 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2116 2014-03-20 16:59:14 <jgarzik> hearn, can do.. but that's a bit down the road a bit. Even after I switch to protobufs, the protocol remains different. I made a few different design decisions, but overall it is 96% same :)
2117 2014-03-20 17:00:00 t3st3r has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2118 2014-03-20 17:00:14 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, RE mastercoin/OP_RETURN, the 1-way and 2-way pegs into side chains are also very compelling. Ref bitcoin-development, http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32108143/
2119 2014-03-20 17:00:39 <hearn> oh. that's a pity. well, perhaps we can eventually bring them both together somehow. it'd sort of suck to have two almost-but-not-quite compatible implementations out there
2120 2014-03-20 17:00:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yes, I hope there is more discussion of that at the Princeton workshop next week
2121 2014-03-20 17:01:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, IMNSHO, as I tweeted, I already explored the mastercoin path, way back in 2012, including code https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/446482442820399104
2122 2014-03-20 17:01:11 smash_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2123 2014-03-20 17:01:15 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, back then it was "pybond"
2124 2014-03-20 17:01:21 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: right, that's what prompted my asking
2125 2014-03-20 17:01:22 <jgarzik> but same basic operation
2126 2014-03-20 17:01:57 MoALTz has joined
2127 2014-03-20 17:02:47 KawalGrover has joined
2128 2014-03-20 17:04:00 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, in general, 100% agreed on "Blockchain as reference ledger, not as data storage."
2129 2014-03-20 17:04:18 nirom has joined
2130 2014-03-20 17:04:32 bbrian has joined
2131 2014-03-20 17:04:33 <hearn> the distributed bond market thing i wrote up a couple of years ago used only hashes
2132 2014-03-20 17:04:38 <hearn> as pointers into a DHT, for sure
2133 2014-03-20 17:04:40 nsh has joined
2134 2014-03-20 17:05:31 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think people aren't able to unpack the different services the blockchain can give. E.g. transaction fees give you DoS prevention, the chain gives you timestamping⦠I think those are the two things that are really key and needed.
2135 2014-03-20 17:06:22 Soligor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2139 2014-03-20 17:07:43 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, My own personal theory is logic like "I have a blockchain, so everything looks like a nail"
2140 2014-03-20 17:08:05 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2142 2014-03-20 17:08:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, It's the biggest and strongest chain, so people don't bother to look further
2143 2014-03-20 17:08:12 <jgarzik> or think further
2144 2014-03-20 17:08:36 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: right-- "I can store data there! And a nifty p2p network we can use to broadcast! Yay!"
2145 2014-03-20 17:08:45 <jgarzik> exactly
2146 2014-03-20 17:09:01 samson_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2147 2014-03-20 17:09:09 <wumpus> oh yes, of course everything needs to be broadcasted to the entire world :)
2148 2014-03-20 17:09:11 MoALTz_ has joined
2149 2014-03-20 17:09:21 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: we should both stop procrastinating and go write code nowâ¦.
2150 2014-03-20 17:09:28 samson_ has joined
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2155 2014-03-20 17:12:55 <skinnkavaj> Quote of the day "Using more computational power than all of the worlds super computers, Bitcoin is capable of processing 0.07% of Visa's transaction volume"
2156 2014-03-20 17:13:08 vegard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2157 2014-03-20 17:13:09 <hearn> lol
2158 2014-03-20 17:13:18 <Imbue> skinnkavaj: sounds familiar.
2159 2014-03-20 17:13:46 <jgarzik> skinnkavaj, hah. quote credit?
2160 2014-03-20 17:13:49 <hearn> jgarzik: 100% right. i get so many partypooper looks from people when they say, "I want to do X, on the block chain!!"
2161 2014-03-20 17:13:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, indeed
2162 2014-03-20 17:14:02 <hearn> jgarzik: and then I say .... hmmm. sounds more like a job for PostgreSQL
2163 2014-03-20 17:14:10 <hearn> <face falls>
2164 2014-03-20 17:14:57 _ImI_ has joined
2165 2014-03-20 17:15:03 <BlueMatt> where is there a signed message containing the 0.9 git hash?
2166 2014-03-20 17:15:07 vegard has joined
2167 2014-03-20 17:15:47 <jgarzik> hearn, Though clearly outside #bitcoin-dev material, I do want to explore the theory of "commit to chain, with bizrule-specific validation" database use. The queryable side of the database becomes then an indexed, cached view of the most recently known chain state, based on the tip of the data chain.
2168 2014-03-20 17:16:17 <jgarzik> That does have uses outside bitcoin as general db technology, IMO
2169 2014-03-20 17:16:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: in the fit repo
2170 2014-03-20 17:16:27 llllllllll has joined
2171 2014-03-20 17:16:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The v0.9.0 tag object
2172 2014-03-20 17:16:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|git*
2173 2014-03-20 17:16:56 KawalGrover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2174 2014-03-20 17:17:03 <midnightmagic> skinnkavaj: Utter nonsense.
2175 2014-03-20 17:17:07 <BlueMatt> hmm? why did I not see this
2176 2014-03-20 17:17:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: all the tags are signed
2177 2014-03-20 17:17:33 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: yes, I knew this.....
2178 2014-03-20 17:17:34 <BlueMatt> except not
2179 2014-03-20 17:17:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|`git tag -v v0.9.0`
2180 2014-03-20 17:18:34 t3st3r has joined
2181 2014-03-20 17:18:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: updating the ppa?
2182 2014-03-20 17:18:48 <BlueMatt> yea, gonna be a minute or 60
2183 2014-03-20 17:18:58 <BlueMatt> have to rewrite the rules for autotools
2184 2014-03-20 17:19:12 <BlueMatt> and dont want to just pick up the ones jonas did in debian because they're a fucking mess
2185 2014-03-20 17:19:15 abossard has quit (Quit: abossard)
2186 2014-03-20 17:21:15 <hearn> BlueMatt: git log doesn't show signatures by default
2187 2014-03-20 17:21:19 <hearn> BlueMatt: this has confused me before as well
2188 2014-03-20 17:21:50 <BlueMatt> indeed
2189 2014-03-20 17:22:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Op hat :o
2190 2014-03-20 17:23:12 t3st3r has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2191 2014-03-20 17:23:17 <Ghaleon> yo Bluematt,... we hunger for pas 0.9.0 .... u the MVP borhter
2192 2014-03-20 17:23:24 <Ghaleon> the only one who can save the realm
2193 2014-03-20 17:23:29 <BlueMatt> ........
2194 2014-03-20 17:23:47 ziggamon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2195 2014-03-20 17:23:49 tombtc has joined
2196 2014-03-20 17:23:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: I thought the Debian folder is part of the source tree?
2197 2014-03-20 17:24:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Did it not get updated when the auto tools switch happened?
2198 2014-03-20 17:24:26 ziggamon has joined
2199 2014-03-20 17:24:38 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: it is, but the guys over at debian insist on using their own (last I checked it was because jonas likes some specific framework and refuses to use the simpler one in source tree)
2200 2014-03-20 17:24:39 Ghaleon has joined
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2202 2014-03-20 17:24:49 <BlueMatt> but, no, no one updates the in-tree one except me, really
2203 2014-03-20 17:24:57 ziggamon has joined
2204 2014-03-20 17:25:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: Ah. Too bad it wasn't changed in time to be part of the tag
2205 2014-03-20 17:25:21 <Ghaleon> my bad humor was not appreciate, sorry dewds. we will be here waiting Matt, rock on
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2209 2014-03-20 17:26:01 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: the debian folder is chronically updated *after* release
2210 2014-03-20 17:26:16 <BlueMatt> its half a chicken-and-egg problem, half a laziness problem
2211 2014-03-20 17:27:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe "update contrib stuff" (or even just "update debian folder") should be in release-process.md
2212 2014-03-20 17:28:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|At the top, before the tag (like transactions)
2213 2014-03-20 17:28:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Erm, translations*
2214 2014-03-20 17:28:19 <BlueMatt> no, usually the only change is "New upstream release, debian upload at XXXX time"
2215 2014-03-20 17:28:25 t3st3r has joined
2216 2014-03-20 17:28:25 <BlueMatt> so it has to happen after-the-fact
2217 2014-03-20 17:28:31 <BlueMatt> its just the autotools thing that is annoying
2218 2014-03-20 17:28:38 <TheBison_> Is it just me, or did the bitcoind binary increase like 10x in file size after 0.9?
2219 2014-03-20 17:28:41 raid5 has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
2220 2014-03-20 17:28:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: I'm not
2221 2014-03-20 17:28:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sure I understand why
2222 2014-03-20 17:29:25 <Imbue> TheBison_: strip?
2223 2014-03-20 17:29:38 petcat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2224 2014-03-20 17:29:39 <BlueMatt> chicken-and-egg problem, you cant say "New upstream release tagged at time XXX" if the release hasnt happened yet :)
2225 2014-03-20 17:30:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: I'm saying, put it in the release process just before the tagging
2226 2014-03-20 17:30:41 <TheBison_> Imbue Do I run strip on the binary itself?
2227 2014-03-20 17:31:23 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: meh, whatever
2228 2014-03-20 17:31:32 giustoXricordarl has joined
2229 2014-03-20 17:31:34 t7 has joined
2230 2014-03-20 17:31:34 <BlueMatt> dont really want to update the changelog before release
2231 2014-03-20 17:31:37 <BlueMatt> not during release
2232 2014-03-20 17:31:40 <BlueMatt> but it doesnt actually matter
2233 2014-03-20 17:32:19 <TheBison_> Imbue: Yeah! That's much better after strip. Thanks.
2234 2014-03-20 17:32:36 Ry4an has joined
2235 2014-03-20 17:33:31 <Imbue> :)
2236 2014-03-20 17:33:34 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wonders why the debian package stuff is kept in-tree if it needs to be updated for a release after the release
2237 2014-03-20 17:34:23 <wumpus> TheBison_: huh? 32-bit bitcoind for 0.8.6 was 6321496, for 0.9.0 it is 7748512, that's hardly 10x
2238 2014-03-20 17:34:57 <Imbue> wumpus: the compile does not strip the binary by default it seems.
2239 2014-03-20 17:35:06 <TheBison_> rumpus I was comparing stripped and non-stripped versions. Whoops.
2240 2014-03-20 17:35:13 <wumpus> the 64-bit one is even closer, it was 6321496 and is now 6602192
2241 2014-03-20 17:35:23 <wumpus> (I'm looking at the files in the release which *are* stripped)
2242 2014-03-20 17:35:29 <Imbue> yeah
2243 2014-03-20 17:35:31 <wumpus> Imbue: make install_strip
2244 2014-03-20 17:35:45 <Imbue> not a problem for me :)
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2252 2014-03-20 17:41:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: re petertodd's high-sigop dos: we should count transactions as max(size, sigops * MAX_BLOCK_SIZE / MAX_SIGOPS_PER_BLOCK) for purposes of relay/fee/mining
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2254 2014-03-20 17:41:20 <sipa> that means it can never cause worse behaviour than size itself
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2258 2014-03-20 17:42:39 <hearn> wouldn't a more general check be to try building a single block with the tx in, and then verify it?
2259 2014-03-20 17:42:44 <hearn> that way there's no duplication of logic
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2262 2014-03-20 17:44:05 <sipa> hearn: that would be horribly expensive to do for every transactions
2263 2014-03-20 17:45:36 <hearn> why? isn't it just CBlock block; block.vtx.push_back(tx); CheckBlock(block) or something like that? i mean, with a bit of refactoring so it's not checking chain connectivity, obviously
2264 2014-03-20 17:46:06 <sipa> it's not about checking whether a single tx fits
2265 2014-03-20 17:46:30 <sipa> it's about checking whether ithat single tx isn't consuming an unreasonably large share of a blocks' resources
2266 2014-03-20 17:46:59 <sipa> which you may want to do, but both economic incentives for mining and dos protection would demand a higher fee for that
2267 2014-03-20 17:47:07 <hearn> OK, so I mean, taking the miner code, and saying "pretend the mempool has only this tx in it. build. check if the tx made it into the block"
2268 2014-03-20 17:47:24 <hearn> something more general than just duplicating checks in the code
2269 2014-03-20 17:47:25 <sipa> yeah, sure, you can do that, but that doesn't really solve the problem
2270 2014-03-20 17:47:34 <sipa> maybe two horribly large transactions together won't fit
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2273 2014-03-20 17:48:06 <sipa> you need a metric to count how much of a block's limited resources a transaction consumes
2274 2014-03-20 17:48:14 <sipa> so far, we've always used bytes for everything
2275 2014-03-20 17:48:23 <sipa> but size is not the only resource being consumed
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2287 2014-03-20 18:04:47 <bdhuser> why do the block and tx payloads include the version field, when this is explicitly established at the start of a connection?
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2289 2014-03-20 18:04:54 <gavinandresen> sipa hearn : ACK. In any case, not a super-high priority, because you need a LOT of unspent txouts to be able to create enough transactions to cause problems.
2290 2014-03-20 18:05:21 <gavinandresen> (and creating unspent txouts is, itself, expensive)
2291 2014-03-20 18:05:24 <hearn> the time/mem-limited mempool would also solve this as well, right?
2292 2014-03-20 18:05:40 <hearn> indirectly. because the tx would never get mined, but eventually it'd drop out of the pool. so it becomes only a bandwidth issue
2293 2014-03-20 18:05:45 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
2294 2014-03-20 18:06:18 <gavinandresen> hearn: mmm⦠it is still a bug to accept a transaction to the mempool that can never ever get mined.
2295 2014-03-20 18:06:19 Cryo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2297 2014-03-20 18:06:30 <hearn> indeed
2298 2014-03-20 18:06:32 xnyhps has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2299 2014-03-20 18:06:35 <hearn> defence in depth and all that
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2301 2014-03-20 18:06:45 <hearn> bdhuser: transactions and blocks are versioned independently from the p2p protocol
2302 2014-03-20 18:07:00 <hearn> bdhuser: the protocol can be upgraded without modifying the block/tx formats
2303 2014-03-20 18:08:12 drayah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2304 2014-03-20 18:08:19 llllllllll has joined
2305 2014-03-20 18:08:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bdhuser: and vice versa
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2308 2014-03-20 18:09:43 <bdhuser> hearn michagogo|cloud: I see, thanks!
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2312 2014-03-20 18:13:57 <sipa> bdhuser: block and transaction versions are consensus rule properties (which validation rules apply)
2313 2014-03-20 18:14:06 derbumi has joined
2314 2014-03-20 18:14:15 <sipa> bdhuser: the protocol version is something that only impacts how data is transferred between two nodes; not which data
2315 2014-03-20 18:14:24 Coincidental has joined
2316 2014-03-20 18:15:56 <maxplm> can someone point me to a resource where I can learn about multisig, P2SH, how they work and what they can do?
2317 2014-03-20 18:16:00 petcat has joined
2318 2014-03-20 18:16:19 <maxplm> I have read the BIPs and discussion and some forum entries
2319 2014-03-20 18:16:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maxplm: what information are you looking for?
2320 2014-03-20 18:16:38 <bdhuser> sipa: I see, I get that they are not the same, but not so clear on what exactly determines the version numbers in the blocks/tx. Is it always the same number from the same node? ...
2321 2014-03-20 18:16:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|bdhuser: right now, transactions are version 1 and blocks are version 2
2322 2014-03-20 18:17:03 <sipa> bdhuser: for transactions, the version is chosen by the sender
2323 2014-03-20 18:17:05 <maxplm> michagogo: mainly technical specifications, implementation specs
2324 2014-03-20 18:17:18 benrcole has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2325 2014-03-20 18:17:19 <sipa> bdhuser: for blocks, it is chosen by the miner (but current rules only allow version 2)
2326 2014-03-20 18:17:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maxplm: do the BIPs not provide that?
2327 2014-03-20 18:17:22 shesek has joined
2328 2014-03-20 18:17:55 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: read BIP13 and BIP16
2329 2014-03-20 18:18:02 <bdhuser> sipa michagogo|cloud: great, thanks
2330 2014-03-20 18:18:06 arubi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2331 2014-03-20 18:18:08 <maxplm> they do but I hoped there was a place where people discussed them, and discussed possible implementations
2332 2014-03-20 18:18:27 <cbeams> âWhat [Bitcoin] really is, itâs heavily encrypted, open-sourced, inexpensive computer code for transferring title to anything [...]â: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kitconews/2014/03/20/bitcoin-may-die-but-the-technology-could-survive-jim-rickards/
2333 2014-03-20 18:18:37 arubi has joined
2334 2014-03-20 18:18:40 <cbeams> Good thing they called in the expert on that one ;)
2335 2014-03-20 18:19:01 <B0g4r7_> Bitcoin 0.9.0 huh...any idea when it might be pushed out to Canonical so it shows up in Ubuntu's default repo(s)?
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2350 2014-03-20 18:22:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|B0g4r7_: it won't show up in Ubuntu's default repos
2351 2014-03-20 18:22:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ubuntu policy sucks, once a version of Ubuntu is released the packages are mostly frozen
2352 2014-03-20 18:23:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|For that reason Bitcoin isn't going to be included in Trusty and later
2353 2014-03-20 18:23:34 <wumpus> B0g4r7_: never, just add the ppa, it will be updated soon
2354 2014-03-20 18:23:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you want Bitcoin on Ubuntu, use the PPA
2355 2014-03-20 18:23:45 <hearn> cbeams: compared to the situation in 2011 that sentence is practically a PhD thesis
2356 2014-03-20 18:23:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt is working on getting 0.9.0 up on the PPA
2357 2014-03-20 18:24:00 <cbeams> hah
2358 2014-03-20 18:24:10 <hearn> most bitcoin coverage is pretty accurate these days, because a bunch of us spent a TON of time with journalists over the last two years
2359 2014-03-20 18:24:12 johba has quit (Quit: johba)
2360 2014-03-20 18:24:18 <hearn> was a huge effort but worth it
2361 2014-03-20 18:24:29 <cbeams> indeed!
2362 2014-03-20 18:24:41 <sipa> hearn: as opposed to "It's a mechanism for online money laundering, used by child porn traffickers and hitmen?"
2363 2014-03-20 18:24:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|B0g4r7_: it's easy to do: `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin`
2364 2014-03-20 18:25:03 <hearn> "Bitcoin had no comment"
2365 2014-03-20 18:25:15 <B0g4r7_> Hm, I guess I do have the bitcoin PPA added (for Precise).
2366 2014-03-20 18:25:30 <B0g4r7_> I guess I'll see 0.9.0 available there sometime soon.
2367 2014-03-20 18:25:38 <wumpus> B0g4r7_: mind that third-party sources are disabled every time you upgrade releases
2368 2014-03-20 18:25:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|B0g4r7_: yeah, if you're on later than 0.3.24 and you're on precise, you're using the ppa
2369 2014-03-20 18:25:52 <B0g4r7_> Yeah, it has 0.8.6 now.
2370 2014-03-20 18:26:11 <B0g4r7_> Yeah, I don't upgrade my release. I stay on 12.04.
2371 2014-03-20 18:26:19 <HeySteve2> hi, I upgraded to 0.9, opened it and downloaded some blocks then closed it
2372 2014-03-20 18:26:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you `apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade` tomorrow or the day after, I'd expect it to be there
2373 2014-03-20 18:26:48 <HeySteve2> now when I reopen, same datadir, I get error: "Error opening block database. Do you want to rebuild the block database now?"
2374 2014-03-20 18:26:58 <B0g4r7_> Cool, thx.
2375 2014-03-20 18:27:07 yubrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2376 2014-03-20 18:27:18 <hearn> whee
2377 2014-03-20 18:27:18 <HeySteve2> safe to do that?
2378 2014-03-20 18:27:24 <hearn> just used the payment protocol to order a pizza
2379 2014-03-20 18:27:26 <hearn> worked perfectly
2380 2014-03-20 18:27:26 draino has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2381 2014-03-20 18:27:39 <Imbue> hearn: pics
2382 2014-03-20 18:27:40 <Imbue> :p
2383 2014-03-20 18:27:41 draino has joined
2384 2014-03-20 18:28:17 <BlueMatt> hearn: thats awesome =D
2385 2014-03-20 18:28:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|hearn: I used it for canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com
2386 2014-03-20 18:28:29 <Ry4an> ordering a pizza is officiall the Utah Teapot of the bitcoin world.
2387 2014-03-20 18:28:36 nsh_ has joined
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2389 2014-03-20 18:28:36 nsh_ has joined
2390 2014-03-20 18:28:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I was really impressed by how smoothly it went
2391 2014-03-20 18:28:46 <hearn> now we just need to get BitPay to stop making stupid memos, and make bitcoinj actually store payment requests and do something useful with them long term
2392 2014-03-20 18:29:09 <hearn> michagogo|cloud: used what? *confusion*
2393 2014-03-20 18:29:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|hearn: payment protocol
2394 2014-03-20 18:29:21 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2395 2014-03-20 18:29:37 <hearn> that website is just a <marquee> tag right?
2396 2014-03-20 18:29:43 <hearn> or do you mean, you used it for buying a domain name or something ?
2397 2014-03-20 18:29:44 CryptoBuck has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2398 2014-03-20 18:29:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|hearn: yes, the domain name
2399 2014-03-20 18:29:57 <hearn> ah cool. got it.
2400 2014-03-20 18:30:00 <hearn> yeah it's pretty smooth
2401 2014-03-20 18:30:08 <hearn> ..... BUT WE CAN STILL DO BETTER! :)
2402 2014-03-20 18:30:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(It's hosted on a box I have a shell account on)
2403 2014-03-20 18:30:27 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2404 2014-03-20 18:30:46 <jouke> hearn: how? We allready have quite some payment requests payed :)
2405 2014-03-20 18:31:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: poke
2406 2014-03-20 18:31:38 <jouke> I guess most used android wallet.
2407 2014-03-20 18:31:42 <HeySteve2> seems to be this issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2435
2408 2014-03-20 18:31:51 <HeySteve2> just with newer versions (previous and current)
2409 2014-03-20 18:32:11 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: damnit, poke me again tomorrow :(
2410 2014-03-20 18:32:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Tomorrow's Friday
2411 2014-03-20 18:32:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I don't know if I'll be around
2412 2014-03-20 18:33:07 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2413 2014-03-20 18:33:12 <hearn> jouke: sorry, brainfart, which product do you work on again?
2414 2014-03-20 18:33:18 t3st3r has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2415 2014-03-20 18:33:33 <jouke> hearn: Dutch bitcoin company, several products.
2416 2014-03-20 18:33:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(Some of my family is running in the Jerusalem Marathon, and in addition there's preparing for Shabbat)
2417 2014-03-20 18:33:53 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: monday? :)
2418 2014-03-20 18:34:21 <hearn> jouke: cool, so you're serving payment requests, or you have a wallet that's handling them?
2419 2014-03-20 18:34:23 <hearn> or both
2420 2014-03-20 18:34:37 t3st3r has joined
2421 2014-03-20 18:34:58 <jouke> hearn: but we receive bitcoins bitcoin payments around 100 times a day.
2422 2014-03-20 18:35:07 <jouke> We serve requests on all the products we have.
2423 2014-03-20 18:35:23 ziggamon has joined
2424 2014-03-20 18:35:26 <hearn> nice
2425 2014-03-20 18:35:29 <hearn> awesome to hear that
2426 2014-03-20 18:35:33 <hearn> we should do some promotion when things are a bit further along
2427 2014-03-20 18:36:13 <jouke> hearn: we are working on that as well.
2428 2014-03-20 18:36:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: oh, do you serve them yourself?
2429 2014-03-20 18:36:45 <jouke> Allready talked to some journalists about how awesome payment requests are and how it is the next big step in Bitcoin :)
2430 2014-03-20 18:36:52 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: my company is.
2431 2014-03-20 18:37:00 <hearn> yeah, i want to get some kind of promo stuff into the developer guide too
2432 2014-03-20 18:37:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's cool -- only seen BitPay's so far
2433 2014-03-20 18:37:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What's the compZny?
2434 2014-03-20 18:37:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Company*
2435 2014-03-20 18:37:23 <jouke> Bitonic, but it is a dutch company
2436 2014-03-20 18:37:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah
2437 2014-03-20 18:39:13 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140317233501])
2438 2014-03-20 18:39:28 <B0g4r7_> http://media.coindesk.com/2014/03/bb.jpg
2439 2014-03-20 18:39:38 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2440 2014-03-20 18:39:58 <HeySteve2> does the -datadir switch work properly in 0.9?
2441 2014-03-20 18:40:10 <HeySteve2> if I click ok it can't find my wallet and starts downloading the entire chain
2442 2014-03-20 18:40:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|HeySteve2: I'm not aware that it doesn't
2443 2014-03-20 18:40:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Click ok?
2444 2014-03-20 18:41:00 <HeySteve2> I did, reset everything and it isn't loading my wallet file
2445 2014-03-20 18:41:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|HeySteve2: I mean, what do you mean by "click ok"?
2446 2014-03-20 18:41:34 <jouke> hearn: most difficult thing in the payment protocol aspect is to make clear that bitcoin addresses are not what they apear to be
2447 2014-03-20 18:41:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I thought you were talking about the -datadir option
2448 2014-03-20 18:41:44 brson has joined
2449 2014-03-20 18:42:03 <HeySteve2> no let me restate the problem
2450 2014-03-20 18:42:25 <HeySteve2> <HeySteve2> hi, I upgraded to 0.9, opened it and downloaded some blocks then closed it
2451 2014-03-20 18:42:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: While you're doing bitcoin Ubuntu packaging stuff, do you feel like making dummy packages to try and get accepted into the older versions of Ubuntu, to effectively remove them from the repos?
2452 2014-03-20 18:42:31 <HeySteve2> now when I reopen, same datadir, I get error: "Error opening block database. Do you want to rebuild the block database now?"
2453 2014-03-20 18:42:44 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: I have no ability to do so
2454 2014-03-20 18:42:53 <HeySteve2> seems to be this issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2435 - just with newer versions (previous and current)
2455 2014-03-20 18:42:53 <BlueMatt> and there is no way in hell ubuntu would accept them
2456 2014-03-20 18:43:05 <Ghaleon> very curious about this direct payments system...as in if the user's wallet is on your bitcoind it is instant?
2457 2014-03-20 18:43:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: I was told it might be an option
2458 2014-03-20 18:43:16 <BlueMatt> michagogo|cloud: by?
2459 2014-03-20 18:43:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|One sec, let me get to my computer and find the email exchange
2460 2014-03-20 18:43:24 <BlueMatt> in any case, clearly I have less information than you, then :)
2461 2014-03-20 18:43:28 <BlueMatt> so you should do it :)
2462 2014-03-20 18:43:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: slangasek, maybe?
2463 2014-03-20 18:43:43 <Ghaleon> direct payments system means addresses within a single wallet are instant as opposed to going through the block chain ?
2464 2014-03-20 18:43:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|BlueMatt: I don't know how to do Ubuntu packaging
2465 2014-03-20 18:43:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I tried reading about it and it confused
2466 2014-03-20 18:43:58 <BlueMatt> nfc, I have had no communication with anyone in ubuntu, ever, really
2467 2014-03-20 18:44:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And got*
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2471 2014-03-20 18:46:09 <HeySteve2> I told it to use a custom datadir but it's still broken
2472 2014-03-20 18:47:18 <HeySteve2> where would be the best place to seek assistance?
2473 2014-03-20 18:47:37 <hearn> BlueMatt: have you ever seen Bitcoin Touch?
2474 2014-03-20 18:47:46 <BlueMatt> no, what is it?
2475 2014-03-20 18:47:52 <hearn> it's a wallet app for ubuntu touch that uses bitcoinj. it's been around for ages
2476 2014-03-20 18:48:07 <hearn> but i never heard of the people making it, they never filed bugs or wrote any emails, and i have never heard of anyone talking about it
2477 2014-03-20 18:48:16 <hearn> the ONLY reason i know it exists, is that i googled bitcoinj once and found it
2478 2014-03-20 18:48:26 <hearn> i'm not even sure it has a website. yet ... there are developers, and it's actively being worked on!
2479 2014-03-20 18:48:33 <BlueMatt> strange.....
2480 2014-03-20 18:48:37 <hearn> yeah!
2481 2014-03-20 18:48:40 <BlueMatt> maybe bitcoinj is just that good
2482 2014-03-20 18:48:45 <hearn> hahaha
2483 2014-03-20 18:48:47 <hearn> nooooooooo
2484 2014-03-20 18:48:52 <BlueMatt> no need to ask questions since we have perfect documentation =D
2485 2014-03-20 18:49:14 <helo> Ghaleon: afaik it just means you submit the transaction to the person you're paying. otherwise, same characteristics as indirect (submitted to network) payment.
2486 2014-03-20 18:49:18 <hearn> encryption is not documented and a dogecoin guy managed to lose peoples money that way :(
2487 2014-03-20 18:49:27 <BlueMatt> hah, dogecoin
2488 2014-03-20 18:49:34 cheetah2 has joined
2489 2014-03-20 18:49:40 <BlueMatt> we need developers.....
2490 2014-03-20 18:49:58 <BlueMatt> and we need people to stop releasing new, unfinished, undocumented, untested libraries
2491 2014-03-20 18:50:02 * BlueMatt glares at bitpay
2492 2014-03-20 18:50:55 <hearn> dogecoin is so cute. it's actually one of my favourite alts by this point
2493 2014-03-20 18:51:07 <BlueMatt> its the world's favorite alt, at this point
2494 2014-03-20 18:51:11 <hearn> in that they actually made semi-professional websites and stuff, and they at least don't take themselves too seriously
2495 2014-03-20 18:51:14 SwampTony has joined
2496 2014-03-20 18:51:42 <BlueMatt> its a hugely interesting study in internet culture and its intersection with value perceptions
2497 2014-03-20 18:51:52 <BlueMatt> I mean its a fucking meme that has generated value and is being used to fund things
2498 2014-03-20 18:52:00 <Ghaleon> help... but do you both have to be on the same wallet? not sure what they meant by .. if the user is on the merchants website.... how would you know?
2499 2014-03-20 18:52:42 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
2500 2014-03-20 18:52:54 zibbo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2501 2014-03-20 18:52:55 _ImI_ has quit (Quit: _ImI_)
2502 2014-03-20 18:53:01 <Ghaleon> money=work.. and the doge community WORKS hard. nut said
2503 2014-03-20 18:53:16 <BlueMatt> no
2504 2014-03-20 18:54:01 ThickAsThieves has joined
2505 2014-03-20 18:54:54 non2_ has joined
2506 2014-03-20 18:55:38 SwampTony has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2507 2014-03-20 18:55:48 <cfields> has bitcoin(core) ever done google summer of code?
2508 2014-03-20 18:55:57 <BlueMatt> ooo, we need to do this
2509 2014-03-20 18:56:16 sj_mackenzie has joined
2510 2014-03-20 18:56:37 <cfields> BlueMatt: i've handled it before for a previous org, and mentored twice. i'm pretty familiar with the process
2511 2014-03-20 18:56:58 <BlueMatt> you should definitely talk to gavinandresen about this
2512 2014-03-20 18:57:00 <sipa> we thought about it before
2513 2014-03-20 18:57:04 <sipa> afaik, nobody was against
2514 2014-03-20 18:57:06 <cfields> i could try to get it rolling if there's interest from the devs, but the deadline is coming up really soon (about a week)
2515 2014-03-20 18:57:11 <sipa> but also nobody willing to do the effort
2516 2014-03-20 18:57:42 <BlueMatt> problem is you need a hard project description, no?
2517 2014-03-20 18:57:44 <cfields> sipa: which effort? mentoring? or going through the gsoc process?
2518 2014-03-20 18:57:52 <BlueMatt> both
2519 2014-03-20 18:57:58 non2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2520 2014-03-20 18:58:04 <BlueMatt> probably suggesting someone to do lots of testing work would be useful
2521 2014-03-20 18:58:15 nsh_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2522 2014-03-20 18:58:25 <BlueMatt> but, unless the description is "someone farmiliar with bitcoin core to do code review"......
2523 2014-03-20 18:58:30 <vegard> it's too late to register as an organisation now.
2524 2014-03-20 18:58:31 mikalv has quit (Quit: leaving)
2525 2014-03-20 18:58:38 <cfields> BlueMatt: the org puts out some "suggestions" for projects. students have to come up with their own proposals, and the org accepts if it's interested
2526 2014-03-20 18:59:02 <cfields> agh, dammit
2527 2014-03-20 18:59:17 <cfields> googling brings up last year's schedule by default
2528 2014-03-20 18:59:23 _ImI_ has joined
2529 2014-03-20 18:59:27 <cfields> ok, nm to that :)
2530 2014-03-20 18:59:47 Krellan_ has joined
2531 2014-03-20 19:00:00 <cfields> fwiw, it's really worth doing next year if there's a dev or two willing to mentor
2532 2014-03-20 19:00:50 <BlueMatt> yea, problem is there isnt enough senior-level dev resources atm
2533 2014-03-20 19:01:07 <BlueMatt> biggest manifestation being the lack of review bandwidth
2534 2014-03-20 19:01:09 arubi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2535 2014-03-20 19:01:37 <cfields> understood.
2536 2014-03-20 19:01:40 arubi has joined
2537 2014-03-20 19:01:41 hydrogene has joined
2538 2014-03-20 19:01:51 zibbo has joined
2539 2014-03-20 19:01:54 <midnightmagic> i've written successful applications for GSoC before, the admin part is easy. The mentoring part.. not so much.
2540 2014-03-20 19:02:11 tinaivanova_ has joined
2541 2014-03-20 19:02:24 <bdhuser> Bird's eye view question about complexity of ref. client: is this because a) actual logic of maintaining blockchain is much deeper than it seems, or b) because we all got stuck on a super hacky version of the client which really could have been much better?
2542 2014-03-20 19:02:30 <cfields> midnightmagic: it depends completely on the student
2543 2014-03-20 19:02:31 _ImI_ has quit (Client Quit)
2544 2014-03-20 19:02:41 <sipa> cfields: bdhuser imho, both
2545 2014-03-20 19:02:46 <sipa> eh -cfields
2546 2014-03-20 19:02:49 Application has joined
2547 2014-03-20 19:03:09 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2548 2014-03-20 19:03:12 <cfields> from what i've heard, i got really lucky both times. great student who got stuff done, mainly oversight and periodic reviews on my part
2549 2014-03-20 19:03:21 <helo> Ghaleon: see #bitcoin
2550 2014-03-20 19:03:34 tiago_ has joined
2551 2014-03-20 19:03:39 tinaivanova has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2552 2014-03-20 19:03:40 airq has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2553 2014-03-20 19:03:46 <sipa> bdhuser: there are many concerns for full node implementations that aren't typical (you need to have performance, security, but also DoS potential, economic incentives, ...)
2554 2014-03-20 19:04:06 airq has joined
2555 2014-03-20 19:04:12 <midnightmagic> cfields: the requirements are opaque at the beginning. I've seen very few students not require active, summer-long mentoring. :)
2556 2014-03-20 19:04:27 <sipa> bdhuser: which for example results in validation being done in several phases based on which information is available when - not a nice list "check this, check this, ..."
2557 2014-03-20 19:04:32 wateratosthenes has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2558 2014-03-20 19:04:33 hydrogene is now known as wateratosthenes
2559 2014-03-20 19:04:37 <sipa> bdhuser: that said, the code organization could be much better
2560 2014-03-20 19:04:41 tiago has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2561 2014-03-20 19:04:48 tiago_ is now known as tiago
2562 2014-03-20 19:04:48 tiago has quit (Changing host)
2563 2014-03-20 19:04:48 tiago has joined
2564 2014-03-20 19:05:20 drayah has joined
2565 2014-03-20 19:05:42 <cfields> sipa: speaking of which, i'm at the point in my impl now where i'm looking at that type of checklist. Do you think the one listed on the bitcoin wiki is relatively up-to-date ?
2566 2014-03-20 19:06:05 <bdhuser> sipa: I see, so, beyond simple improvements to the structure of the code base, you are basically saying, anyone who wants to build a blockchain for anything, will be stuck in a similar "hell hole", only with possibly nice code. :/
2567 2014-03-20 19:06:09 <cfields> sipa: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules . for tx/block
2568 2014-03-20 19:06:10 <sipa> cfields: you're implementing a full node? :o
2569 2014-03-20 19:06:19 Namworld has joined
2570 2014-03-20 19:06:25 _alp_ has joined
2571 2014-03-20 19:06:28 <BlueMatt> cfields: please dont implement a full node :(
2572 2014-03-20 19:06:30 <sipa> cfields: it's certainly not up to date
2573 2014-03-20 19:06:38 <cfields> sipa: i'm still working on my protocol spec
2574 2014-03-20 19:06:45 <cfields> BlueMatt: i'm not, i'm working on a full spec
2575 2014-03-20 19:06:47 <sipa> protocol implementation... sure
2576 2014-03-20 19:06:49 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2577 2014-03-20 19:06:58 <bdhuser> BlueMatt: this is the second time I am hearing this recommendation today, ... not happy :(
2578 2014-03-20 19:07:18 <BlueMatt> bdhuser: please go read the recent discussion on the bitcoinj ml of removing the full verification code in bitcoinj
2579 2014-03-20 19:07:26 <sipa> bdhuser: please understand, bitcoin has the very unusual software requirement that consistency is more important than correctness
2580 2014-03-20 19:07:27 drayah has joined
2581 2014-03-20 19:07:37 <bdhuser> yes I saw
2582 2014-03-20 19:07:41 <BlueMatt> the bitcoinj full verification stuff being one of the best tested, by far, full verification implementations out there
2583 2014-03-20 19:08:00 <BlueMatt> but there is very serious discussion of removing it because it is just not good to have as it may break consensus
2584 2014-03-20 19:08:01 <sipa> bdhuser: two nodes disagreeing on what is valid means they inevitably will fork, which means the ability to spend each older coin twice on each side; an economic disaster, really
2585 2014-03-20 19:08:27 <Ghaleon> this is a very important distinction sipa
2586 2014-03-20 19:08:37 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: meh, just add mining support already
2587 2014-03-20 19:08:45 airq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2588 2014-03-20 19:08:47 <sipa> i believe we should work towards abstracting the bitcoin core validation code out into a as-simple-as-possible library with little dependencies
2589 2014-03-20 19:08:57 _ImI_ has joined
2590 2014-03-20 19:09:01 <cfields> sipa: are you arguing that the only way forward is maintaining a single implementation?
2591 2014-03-20 19:09:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: I still like static analysis thereof
2592 2014-03-20 19:09:11 <sipa> cfields: for the core validation logic, yes
2593 2014-03-20 19:09:20 <sipa> cfields: that doesn't mean everything has to be
2594 2014-03-20 19:09:28 <BlueMatt> (to prove multiple implementations equivalent0
2595 2014-03-20 19:09:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I did make one small step toward that the other day! :P
2596 2014-03-20 19:09:35 <sipa> there is a ton of work in implementation a full node that isn't exactly validation code
2597 2014-03-20 19:09:39 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i saw!
2598 2014-03-20 19:09:47 <bdhuser> BlueMatt: wouldnt halting problem make that impossible?
2599 2014-03-20 19:10:09 ryanxcharles has joined
2600 2014-03-20 19:10:16 wateratosthenes has quit (Quit: wateratosthenes)
2601 2014-03-20 19:10:21 <BlueMatt> bdhuser: scripts have limited length and are not turing complete, so that part should be doable
2602 2014-03-20 19:10:24 <cfields> sipa: my work is to abstract the protocol (what goes over the wire), and stub out the verification process, and anything local to the user
2603 2014-03-20 19:10:27 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2604 2014-03-20 19:10:28 <BlueMatt> in general, sure, but in practice, not really
2605 2014-03-20 19:10:38 <bdhuser> sipa: by validation, do you mean checking that a block has all valid transactions by tracing back all the way to genesis?
2606 2014-03-20 19:10:41 yubrew has joined
2607 2014-03-20 19:10:47 <sipa> bdhuser: that's not how it works
2608 2014-03-20 19:11:08 <cfields> so that it'd be broken up into: wire protocol, network connection, local storage, verification, etc
2609 2014-03-20 19:11:17 <sipa> cfields: cool
2610 2014-03-20 19:11:20 <cfields> all as interchangable components
2611 2014-03-20 19:11:31 <cfields> does that fit into what you were saying above?
2612 2014-03-20 19:11:41 <sipa> yes, sure
2613 2014-03-20 19:11:47 drayah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2614 2014-03-20 19:12:00 <cfields> the exception here being that the verification part wouldn't be interchangable
2615 2014-03-20 19:12:00 <sipa> i think we can have a set of layered libraries; the bottom one being purely a script implementation
2616 2014-03-20 19:12:07 <Luke-Jr> on this note, I think we really should rename libbitcoin* to libsatoshi* before we start making things sharable
2617 2014-03-20 19:12:22 <Luke-Jr> libbitcoin is already something else
2618 2014-03-20 19:12:41 <sipa> cfields: making it interchangable is still good design, even if it's not intended to be actually swapped out
2619 2014-03-20 19:12:42 <cfields> Luke-Jr: i've gone with libblockchain myself, as it's not necessarily tied to bitcoin either
2620 2014-03-20 19:12:54 <Luke-Jr> cfields: "satoshi" isn't either :P
2621 2014-03-20 19:12:58 quaoar has joined
2622 2014-03-20 19:13:08 <Luke-Jr> cfields: libblockchain doesn't really make sense for scripting stuff IMO
2623 2014-03-20 19:13:10 ybin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2624 2014-03-20 19:13:42 <cfields> Luke-Jr: scripting would be a different project..
2625 2014-03-20 19:13:51 tinaivanova_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2626 2014-03-20 19:14:07 Ghaleon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2627 2014-03-20 19:14:16 <cfields> not really modular if you lump scripting in with the wire protocol :)
2628 2014-03-20 19:14:26 ryanxcharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2629 2014-03-20 19:14:30 tinaivanova has joined
2630 2014-03-20 19:14:32 non2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2631 2014-03-20 19:14:48 <Luke-Jr> I must have misunderstood you
2632 2014-03-20 19:14:51 <hearn> script relies on the core data structure definitions and serialization code, etc
2633 2014-03-20 19:14:55 <hearn> for OP_CHECKSIG
2634 2014-03-20 19:15:03 HeySteve2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2635 2014-03-20 19:15:08 Imbue has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2636 2014-03-20 19:15:08 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2637 2014-03-20 19:15:12 <hearn> so abstracting it out would be a bit painful and IMO not that useful - most reimplementations seem to be driven by wanting to use their favourite language anyway
2638 2014-03-20 19:15:14 HeySteve has joined
2639 2014-03-20 19:15:24 <Luke-Jr> libsatoshi_datastructure libsatoshi_script :P
2640 2014-03-20 19:15:37 random_cat has joined
2641 2014-03-20 19:15:42 <cfields> sipa: would you be open to work on exposing a public api from core ?
2642 2014-03-20 19:16:09 <cbeams> hearn: but if core verification were abstracted into a library suitable for use through a native interface (e.g. JNI), I think many alt implementations would accept that.
2643 2014-03-20 19:16:11 <cfields> sipa: baby steps, obviously
2644 2014-03-20 19:16:11 Emcy_ has joined
2645 2014-03-20 19:16:35 <hearn> this leads to the question of what the purpose of the other implementation would be, if not to be different?
2646 2014-03-20 19:16:55 <cfields> sipa: if so, i would take that on for sure.
2647 2014-03-20 19:17:03 <cbeams> well, in the case of bitcoinj, that *everything else* is in Java, and can therefore benefit from that base of developers, etc.
2648 2014-03-20 19:17:11 <sipa> cfields: can you be more specific?
2649 2014-03-20 19:18:04 <cfields> sipa: exposing some of the scripting/validation functionality in a somewhat abstracted api, so that other applications can use the functionality
2650 2014-03-20 19:18:35 <gmaxwell> cbeams: my expirence is that most people implementing explicitly want to write their own implementation from scratch.
2651 2014-03-20 19:18:47 <hearn> as i said before, adding features can't be done, you'd still have to add them to Core/libsatoshi/whatever. and you can't fix bugs either, same reason. so other devs would be restricted to performance work, basically. but so far everyone who tried to reimplement Core ended up settling on the same decisions we did, like using LevelDB
2652 2014-03-20 19:18:52 <hearn> because otherwise they can't match it
2653 2014-03-20 19:19:15 Emcy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2654 2014-03-20 19:19:22 <hearn> so it doesn't end up being so different, it seems
2655 2014-03-20 19:19:32 gst has joined
2656 2014-03-20 19:19:38 <gmaxwell> hearn: just enough to get forked every couple of weeks... :)
2657 2014-03-20 19:19:39 <sipa> cfields: yes, i think the scripting logic should be abstracted into a separate library that does nothing else
2658 2014-03-20 19:19:49 <sipa> cfields: ideally, without any dependencies
2659 2014-03-20 19:20:01 <hearn> i wonder if anyone keeps track of how often Coinbase got forked
2660 2014-03-20 19:20:43 <sipa> haha
2661 2014-03-20 19:21:10 _ImI_ has quit (Quit: _ImI_)
2662 2014-03-20 19:21:14 <cfields> sipa: i agree. i'm very willing to take that on. but the dependency issue is a tricky one. most obvious is bignum.
2663 2014-03-20 19:21:23 Ghaleon has joined
2664 2014-03-20 19:21:24 draino has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2665 2014-03-20 19:21:34 <sipa> cfields: i want to get rid of bignum in script
2666 2014-03-20 19:21:37 <hearn> sipa: surely it'd have to depend on openssl
2667 2014-03-20 19:21:44 <hearn> for signature checking and parsing?
2668 2014-03-20 19:21:46 <cfields> sipa: would you agree to some sort of adapter or opaque handle for things like that?
2669 2014-03-20 19:21:51 <sipa> hearn: not with libsecp256k1 :p
2670 2014-03-20 19:22:08 <hearn> if you're sure there's no difference in what they'll accept ...
2671 2014-03-20 19:22:10 <sipa> hearn: but for now, yes, openssl will be a dependency
2672 2014-03-20 19:22:30 <sipa> hearn: no, i'm not, and i'm don't want to take that risk
2673 2014-03-20 19:22:48 <cfields> sipa: by that you mean that script should implement its own functionality for eg. bignum/hashing? Or it should have an abstract interface for supplying your own versions?
2674 2014-03-20 19:23:02 <Luke-Jr> sipa: might as well take that risk as soon as we do another hardfork
2675 2014-03-20 19:23:04 <hearn> hmm :(
2676 2014-03-20 19:23:10 <sipa> cfields: script only has 32-bit arithmetic anymore, so it doesn't need bignum actually
2677 2014-03-20 19:23:11 sserrano44 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2678 2014-03-20 19:23:12 <hearn> i wonder if it could be made condition on tx version=2
2679 2014-03-20 19:23:15 <hearn> i mean 3
2680 2014-03-20 19:23:38 JackH has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2681 2014-03-20 19:23:50 <cfields> sipa: oh?
2682 2014-03-20 19:23:52 <sipa> i'm perfectly fine with copying a well-tested public domain ripemd160/sha256 implementation
2683 2014-03-20 19:24:06 <sipa> but yes, ecdsa for now will require openssl
2684 2014-03-20 19:24:15 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2685 2014-03-20 19:24:33 <sipa> hearn: once we do bip62, strictly encoded der can be enforced
2686 2014-03-20 19:24:47 <sipa> hearn: so we lose the risk of forking due to incompatible parsing
2687 2014-03-20 19:24:58 <cfields> sipa: would you be agreeable to allowing for a stable api for that scripting lib, if it were properly broken out?
2688 2014-03-20 19:25:15 <hearn> bip 62 is new to me
2689 2014-03-20 19:25:16 <gmaxwell> cbeams: supplying your own versions would be a path of doom and fail, fortunately thats not required.
2690 2014-03-20 19:25:39 johba has joined
2691 2014-03-20 19:25:39 <hearn> ah ha
2692 2014-03-20 19:25:40 <HeySteve> 0.9 can't read my wallet.dat
2693 2014-03-20 19:25:40 * hearn reads
2694 2014-03-20 19:25:51 <sipa> cfields: yes
2695 2014-03-20 19:25:53 <HeySteve> is this is a known issue?
2696 2014-03-20 19:26:02 <sipa> hearn: what did you upgrade from?
2697 2014-03-20 19:26:06 <hearn> sipa: yeah i was thinking secp256k1 could be switched on at the same time
2698 2014-03-20 19:26:06 <sipa> eh, HeySteve
2699 2014-03-20 19:26:10 <cfields> sipa: ok. i'm on it :)
2700 2014-03-20 19:26:20 <hearn> sipa: so even if there's a difference in signature calculations somehow, no problem
2701 2014-03-20 19:26:46 skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2702 2014-03-20 19:27:05 <cbeams> gmaxwell: I'm afraid I don't follow. Do you mean "supplying your own versions" to the core lib through a native interface? What is the meaning of "version" in this context?
2703 2014-03-20 19:27:09 <HeySteve> 0.8.5 sees my balances and addresses, 0.9 does not.
2704 2014-03-20 19:27:21 <sipa> HeySteve: what does 0.9 do?
2705 2014-03-20 19:27:23 <HeySteve> same datadir, though both are reindexing the blocks
2706 2014-03-20 19:27:32 agath has joined
2707 2014-03-20 19:27:39 <HeySteve> sipa, it worked initially then gave an error message
2708 2014-03-20 19:27:42 non2_ has joined
2709 2014-03-20 19:27:44 <gmaxwell> there are too many c* people here now, I was intending to direct that to cfields
2710 2014-03-20 19:27:44 <HeySteve> seems to be this issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2435 - just with newer versions (previous and current)
2711 2014-03-20 19:27:49 <sipa> HeySteve: which?
2712 2014-03-20 19:27:50 <gmaxwell> cbeams: sorry about that.
2713 2014-03-20 19:28:05 <sipa> HeySteve: what error are you seeing?
2714 2014-03-20 19:28:17 <cfields> sipa: mind elaborating on "script only has 32-bit arithmetic anymore, so it doesn't need bignum actually". i'm not following.
2715 2014-03-20 19:28:21 <HeySteve> none, but previously in 0.9 saw this: "Error opening block database. Do you want to rebuild the block database now?"
2716 2014-03-20 19:28:39 meLon_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
2717 2014-03-20 19:28:42 <sipa> cfields: unsure how i can eloborate more :)
2718 2014-03-20 19:28:50 <sipa> cfields: script only needs 32-bit airthmetic functionality
2719 2014-03-20 19:28:51 <HeySteve> clicked ok, it started redownloading blockchain but my transactions and addresses vanished
2720 2014-03-20 19:29:06 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2721 2014-03-20 19:29:06 <sipa> HeySteve: wait until it's reindexed, i guess
2722 2014-03-20 19:29:11 <cfields> gmaxwell: by "supplying your own version" i meant supply-your-own sha256, for example
2723 2014-03-20 19:29:23 ybin has joined
2724 2014-03-20 19:29:27 <HeySteve> sipa, yeah but shouldn't it show unconfirmed transactions and addresses?
2725 2014-03-20 19:29:29 <hearn> sipa: re, rule 7 in bip 62, why not just use txv3 to remove the superfluous [] for CHECKMULTISIG instead of specifying its form?
2726 2014-03-20 19:29:33 Ursium has quit (Quit: Ursium)
2727 2014-03-20 19:29:39 <cfields> gmaxwell: is that what you meant as well?
2728 2014-03-20 19:29:41 ziggamon has joined
2729 2014-03-20 19:29:49 <sipa> hearn: that's a har dfork
2730 2014-03-20 19:29:55 <gmaxwell> cfields: I suppose someone could manage to get _that_ much safely, but bignum (if not for the fact that they aren't needed) would be a receipy for extreme failure.
2731 2014-03-20 19:29:58 <HeySteve> I mean my addresses should be in my wallet file, not the blockchain. unsure why it they're missing
2732 2014-03-20 19:30:15 <sipa> HeySteve: the logic for determining validness of wallet transactions changes significantly in 0.9
2733 2014-03-20 19:30:25 <sipa> HeySteve: i'm unawar eof this issue, but maybe it's not a bug
2734 2014-03-20 19:30:25 <hearn> yes, i think we've argued about this before :) i recognise no distinction between hard and soft forks, as i don't think it's acceptable to downgrade full nodes to weaker security models
2735 2014-03-20 19:30:33 <Apocalyptic> "validness" sipa, seriously ?
2736 2014-03-20 19:30:38 draino has joined
2737 2014-03-20 19:30:39 meLon_ has joined
2738 2014-03-20 19:30:41 <sipa> hearn: there is no downgrade as v3 transactions are optional
2739 2014-03-20 19:31:18 <hearn> for validation, no, once they start appearing in the chain you need to be on the same ruleset as other people otherwise you can get split off
2740 2014-03-20 19:31:22 <hearn> even if you don't generate them
2741 2014-03-20 19:31:33 ralphtheninja has joined
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2743 2014-03-20 19:31:55 <cfields> sipa: ok, my confusion comes from just looking at the code. i'll try to get a higher-level understanding of it as a next step.
2744 2014-03-20 19:32:02 <sipa> hearn: you may not recognize softforks as acceptable/wanted, but i hope you understand the difference between requiring a majority of miners to upgrade vs requiring every single node in the network to upgrade
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2746 2014-03-20 19:32:49 <sipa> hearn: i partially agree by the way - softforks are an easy out solution because we fear hardforks are too hard too pull off for relatively simple changes
2747 2014-03-20 19:33:00 ralphtheninja has joined
2748 2014-03-20 19:34:06 <hearn> given that old nodes accept newer version numbers anyway, there's not much of a way to really make it be a fully hard fork except for in the checkmultisig case though
2749 2014-03-20 19:34:21 <hearn> perhaps v3 is a good time to change that too :)
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2751 2014-03-20 19:34:48 <sipa> cfields: there are restrictions on the sizes of operands, which limit it to 32-bit arithmetic iirc
2752 2014-03-20 19:34:52 <sipa> cfields: maybe 64 bit
2753 2014-03-20 19:36:37 <cfields> sipa: i see. so bignum is used but only as a container, and not at all as an integral?
2754 2014-03-20 19:37:07 <sipa> oh it is
2755 2014-03-20 19:37:16 <sipa> but it could just be switched to int64_t, afaik
2756 2014-03-20 19:37:21 <sipa> needs careful stuby of course
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2758 2014-03-20 19:37:56 <cfields> ok. well that seems like the most reasonble first step then, no?
2759 2014-03-20 19:38:08 <sipa> yes :)
2760 2014-03-20 19:38:46 <cfields> roger. I'll take a crack at that, and use it as an excuse to get more familiar with scripting
2761 2014-03-20 19:38:52 <cfields> thanks for the advice.
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2766 2014-03-20 19:44:42 <HeySteve> erm right selected 0.9 32bit, installed it over 0.8.5, it now sees everything. was using 64 bit previously. weird bug
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2770 2014-03-20 19:45:04 <HeySteve> I can write a proper report if that's useful somehow
2771 2014-03-20 19:45:20 <sipa> github.com/bitcoin/issues please :)
2772 2014-03-20 19:45:46 banghouse has joined
2773 2014-03-20 19:46:44 <HeySteve> oh no wait, spoke too soon
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2776 2014-03-20 19:47:13 <HeySteve> 32 bit version does the same... if I wait for it to sync, what are the chances my transactions and addresses will appear?
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2778 2014-03-20 19:48:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Meh, I don't think we should be worrying about hardforks
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2780 2014-03-20 19:48:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Dogecoin did a major hardfork recently IIRC, and I think it went smoothly for them
2781 2014-03-20 19:49:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|They just said "everyone must upgrade" and that was it.
2782 2014-03-20 19:49:10 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: if bitcoin did that, under those conditions, i'm pretty sure i'd instantly quit using it
2783 2014-03-20 19:49:17 <sipa> "let's change our money supply"
2784 2014-03-20 19:49:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: um.
2785 2014-03-20 19:49:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I wasn't being serious...
2786 2014-03-20 19:49:58 <sipa> ok!
2787 2014-03-20 19:50:00 <sipa> sorry :)
2788 2014-03-20 19:50:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:-D
2789 2014-03-20 19:50:44 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|wonders what a "multipool" is
2790 2014-03-20 19:52:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|um
2791 2014-03-20 19:52:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|"Now that it is safe, how where the multi-coin pools cherry picking higher random rewards?"
2792 2014-03-20 19:52:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|response: "The random reward must be agreeable - so they can never truly be random, as there must be a way to get a "set" value - this is achieved with a random seed. The seed used was a portion of the last block's ID number - allowing multipools to pre-calculate the random value, by simply executing the random method on any block ID.:
2793 2014-03-20 19:52:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|"
2794 2014-03-20 19:53:22 <Luke-Jr> (or they could just calculate the reward from the *found block hash* and increase the first output value by that much..)
2795 2014-03-20 19:53:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Unless I'm misunderstanding, is that saying that the use of the last block ID isn't a rule, but just an implementation detail?
2796 2014-03-20 19:53:37 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|facepalms
2797 2014-03-20 19:53:38 <sipa> michagogo|cloud: it's a rule
2798 2014-03-20 19:53:44 <sipa> afaik
2799 2014-03-20 19:53:55 <sipa> but they can bias mining towards profitable blocks
2800 2014-03-20 19:54:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, just got an answer on what multipools are
2801 2014-03-20 19:54:33 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: it's like pool hopping, but s/pool/coin :P
2802 2014-03-20 19:54:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So it's not that they could make blocks be more valuable, but rather that because they're hopping on and off, they can just hop on for the good blocks
2803 2014-03-20 19:55:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I'm really astonished that dogecoin has gone as far as it has.
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2806 2014-03-20 19:56:07 <cfields> sipa: while getting rid of bignum, i suppose you'd still be ok with a wrapper class for integrals over one-off atol-and-friends?
2807 2014-03-20 19:56:22 <sipa> cfields: sgtm
2808 2014-03-20 19:56:36 <sipa> (not that c++ code should really be using atol...)
2809 2014-03-20 19:56:38 Zarutian has joined
2810 2014-03-20 19:57:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Skimming the reddit sticky titled "[ANN]Dogecoin's 1.6 algorithms are now live. Haven't upgraded yet? You need to, immediately."
2811 2014-03-20 19:57:49 <cfields> sipa: i agree completely ofc. just that i'm not quite used to the fuzzy distinction that core makes between c and c++ :)
2812 2014-03-20 19:57:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Not one single comment is saying "No, I refuse to upgrade"
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2818 2014-03-20 20:06:53 <Ghaleon> You guys said you were going to get rid of the Account feature... so sendfrom will be removed? or will it just take the from ADDRESS rather than the account ?
2819 2014-03-20 20:07:10 <Ghaleon> please advise so us noobs know how to structure our overlying databases
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2821 2014-03-20 20:09:55 <num1> michagogo|cloud, I think most people with dogecoin realize it's not a currency that's guaranteed to have value going forward
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2824 2014-03-20 20:10:12 <num1> dogecoin is literally a joke
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2826 2014-03-20 20:10:43 <Ghaleon> so was bit coin at first
2827 2014-03-20 20:11:07 <Ghaleon> if the right markets open up for it... it becomes a joke that can get u stuff....
2828 2014-03-20 20:11:27 <Ghaleon> work makes currency worth something. that is the guiding light, ask benjamin franklin
2829 2014-03-20 20:11:49 <Ghaleon> red Jack Weatherfords The History of Money.. great overview
2830 2014-03-20 20:11:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ghaleon: nah, Bitcoin was never a literal joke
2831 2014-03-20 20:12:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ghaleon: sendfrom will probably be removed, yes
2832 2014-03-20 20:12:47 <Ghaleon> michagogo|cloud: show how do we specify from where to send the funds? if we are putting multiple wallets on a single bitcoind
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2834 2014-03-20 20:16:17 <Ghaleon> michagogo|cloud any idea how this will be moving forward? need a way to specify from what address the funds come from?
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2844 2014-03-20 20:24:18 <sipa> Ghaleon: there has never been any way to say what address to spend from
2845 2014-03-20 20:24:27 <sipa> Ghaleon: and the account feature has nothing to do with that either
2846 2014-03-20 20:24:31 <sipa> Ghaleon: it's just acocunting
2847 2014-03-20 20:24:55 <sipa> Ghaleon: if you send X coins on behalf of user Y, subtract user X's balance by Y
2848 2014-03-20 20:25:16 <sipa> Ghaleon: if you receive X coins on an address assigned to user Y, increment user X's balance by Y
2849 2014-03-20 20:25:45 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2852 2014-03-20 20:26:25 <sipa> Ghaleon: this has _nothing_ to do with which coins you are sending
2853 2014-03-20 20:26:55 <sipa> Ghaleon: think about your own wallet with coins and notes, and say you're holding some money that you borrowed from a friend, so you owe him X
2854 2014-03-20 20:26:57 <Ghaleon> sipa: yes, u are right, "Addresss are opaque identiï¬ers used as destinations for bitcoin transactions. (They are never used
2855 2014-03-20 20:26:57 <Ghaleon> as sources; so while typical transactions have a notion of a âreceiving addressâ there is no such thing as a âsending addressâ.) From a user perspective, there is no meaning to addresses beyond this"
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2857 2014-03-20 20:27:09 <Ghaleon> sipa: just read that, mind blown
2858 2014-03-20 20:27:09 <sipa> Ghaleon: it's not like you're going to track which exact coins belong to whom
2859 2014-03-20 20:27:25 <sipa> Ghaleon: you just remember how much you owe them
2860 2014-03-20 20:27:30 <Ghaleon> sipa:i am trying to setup an internal wallet system for our group
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2862 2014-03-20 20:27:59 <Ghaleon> sipa: so it seems like it doesn't matter which address in our system has coins
2863 2014-03-20 20:28:00 <aynstein> is using the current time a good salt?
2864 2014-03-20 20:28:08 ziggamon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2865 2014-03-20 20:28:12 <aynstein> oops
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2867 2014-03-20 20:28:28 <sipa> Ghaleon: no it does not
2868 2014-03-20 20:28:36 rdymac has joined
2869 2014-03-20 20:28:41 <sipa> Ghaleon: you need the wallet to know how much funds you're holding in total
2870 2014-03-20 20:28:53 <sipa> Ghaleon: you don't need to know which coin belong sto whom
2871 2014-03-20 20:29:08 <sipa> you just need accounting to know how much who owes whom
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2882 2014-03-20 20:32:07 <Ghaleon> sipa: you are right...!!! thank you. just realized that there is no such thing as a SOURCE address
2883 2014-03-20 20:33:06 <sipa> \o/ someone seeing the light
2884 2014-03-20 20:33:21 <Ghaleon> lolz noob powa
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2889 2014-03-20 20:37:19 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi++
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2892 2014-03-20 20:39:45 <andytoshi> thx Luke-Jr
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2900 2014-03-20 20:43:37 <sipa> Luke-Jr: what for?
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2903 2014-03-20 20:45:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa: the quote which got Ghaleon on the right page :P
2904 2014-03-20 20:45:59 <sipa> ah!
2905 2014-03-20 20:47:11 <kadoban> so here's a question, hopefully not a dumb one: in scripts, is any number of 'zero' bytes also a representation of 0?
2906 2014-03-20 20:47:17 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2907 2014-03-20 20:47:41 <sipa> kadoban: for now, yes
2908 2014-03-20 20:47:47 <sipa> BIP62 will forbid that
2909 2014-03-20 20:48:21 <kadoban> thanks, lemme go find that...
2910 2014-03-20 20:48:25 <thermoman> BlueMatt: will there be a 0.9.0 ppa release?
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2912 2014-03-20 20:49:41 <kadoban> sipa: err, sorry, where do i find those? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Improvement_Proposals i thought, but there's no text for that one there?
2913 2014-03-20 20:49:42 Gyps has quit (Quit: Gyps)
2914 2014-03-20 20:51:20 <Luke-Jr> kadoban: there's a link
2915 2014-03-20 20:52:08 <kadoban> oh the readme thing, hah...thanks
2916 2014-03-20 20:52:17 <Ghaleon> andytoshi: hooked me up with a sweet succinct faq
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2923 2014-03-20 20:57:40 <anton000> found it. first time to have seen this. pretty great stuff
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2937 2014-03-20 21:11:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|thermoman: I think it's in progress.
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2947 2014-03-20 21:19:47 <maaku> sipa: will that mean that pushing hashes with leading zero bytes will require a smaller push?
2948 2014-03-20 21:20:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, that's interesting
2949 2014-03-20 21:21:07 JessicaS has quit (Quit: JessicaS)
2950 2014-03-20 21:21:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because if so, in version 3 transactions you'd need to change the hash opcodes to compact their hashes, too
2951 2014-03-20 21:21:40 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|hadn't thought of that
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2976 2014-03-20 21:45:16 <samson_> quick but stupid question, I've been playing around with polarssl and it appears that a private key has X,Y and Z. I can see what X an Y are for - it' sthe public key - but what's Z for ?
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2980 2014-03-20 21:46:07 <samson_> badly phrased above - I meant ecp_point instead of 'private key'
2981 2014-03-20 21:46:25 <samson_> Do I need the Z and what for ?
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2983 2014-03-20 21:46:57 <anton000> thanks laanwj for bitcoind.static. running fine on centos 6.5 64bit
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2990 2014-03-20 21:51:58 <sipa> maaku: hashes are not numbers but byte sequences
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2994 2014-03-20 21:53:28 <sipa> samson_: actual X is x/z^2, actual Y is y/z^3
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2996 2014-03-20 21:53:36 <sipa> samson_: or the exponents swapped, unsure
2997 2014-03-20 21:53:47 <sipa> samson_: look for jacobian coordinaes, if you want to know more
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2999 2014-03-20 21:54:15 <samson_> sipa: So if I already have X and Y (which I do) can you confirm that I don't need Z to do a simple sign / verify ?
3000 2014-03-20 21:55:03 brson has joined
3001 2014-03-20 21:55:04 <samson_> I'm new to this and still learning so appreciate any help thanks
3002 2014-03-20 21:55:06 <sipa> samson_: yes you do need it
3003 2014-03-20 21:55:22 <samson_> ok thanks, I'll do some more reading then
3004 2014-03-20 21:55:23 <sipa> samson_: the value in X and Y is not the actual X/Y coordinate
3005 2014-03-20 21:55:34 <sipa> when using jacobian coordinates
3006 2014-03-20 21:55:43 <sipa> unless Z=1
3007 2014-03-20 21:57:21 <samson_> ok thanks, will read up on jacobian coordinates and how they relate to Bitcoin
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3010 2014-03-20 21:57:43 <Ghaleon> if you import a wallet.dat file into bitcoind does it copy over the receiving addresses? everything that I have read says IT WILL NOT COPY over receiving addresses....
3011 2014-03-20 21:58:50 <dexX7> speaking about this.. are pubkeys in multisig outputs required to provide valid ecdsa points? will this ever be checked?
3012 2014-03-20 21:58:50 <sipa> copy over to what?
3013 2014-03-20 21:59:03 <sipa> Ghaleon: there is no 'import' feature
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3018 2014-03-20 22:01:25 <sipa> dexX7: when spending, yes
3019 2014-03-20 22:01:29 <sipa> dexX7: before, no
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3021 2014-03-20 22:01:49 <Ghaleon> sipa, lol
3022 2014-03-20 22:01:53 <Ghaleon> thanks
3023 2014-03-20 22:01:55 <dexX7> ty
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3026 2014-03-20 22:04:40 <tiago> guys, how long does it usually take you to do a gitian build?
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3034 2014-03-20 22:14:46 <zone117x> for sendmany API command, is <fromaccount> really required? so far all the API calls I've used I could just ignore the "account" argument
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3041 2014-03-20 22:17:59 <samson_> [21/03 04:54] <sipa> unless Z=1 <-- I'm finding that all public keys I generate in my tests have Z values of 1 - all of them so far
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3045 2014-03-20 22:19:49 <tiago> zone117x: it is required
3046 2014-03-20 22:20:10 <zone117x> if I do a sendmany with 100 different addresses, and lets say a few of them are invalid addresses, will the payments still go through to the valid addresses?
3047 2014-03-20 22:20:24 <sipa> zone117x: define invalid?
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3049 2014-03-20 22:20:44 <sipa> zone117x: use "" as account if you don't care
3050 2014-03-20 22:20:54 <tiago> zone117x: no, look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/a63f8b7b36e39722024a0ba061ca214f00a8f1bd/src/rpcwallet.cpp#L792
3051 2014-03-20 22:21:06 <tiago> if (!address.IsValid())
3052 2014-03-20 22:21:06 <tiago> throw JSONRPCError(RPC_INVALID_ADDRESS_OR_KEY, string("Invalid Bitcoin address: ")+s.name_);
3053 2014-03-20 22:21:35 <zone117x> so a single invalid address will result no NO coins being sent at all?
3054 2014-03-20 22:21:47 <tiago> seems like it
3055 2014-03-20 22:22:00 <flound1129> yes you shuold validate each address before adding the transaction to your sendmany array
3056 2014-03-20 22:22:05 <flound1129> and you should also check there are no duplicates
3057 2014-03-20 22:22:07 <zone117x> okay thanks for the info everyone
3058 2014-03-20 22:22:22 <flound1129> duplicate addresses will also cause sendmany to fail.
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3072 2014-03-20 22:27:53 <zone117x> https://github.com/zone117x/node-open-mining-portal/blob/master/libs/paymentProcessor.js#L82
3073 2014-03-20 22:28:18 <zone117x> payment processing is complicated :/ so many possible errors and security problems. here is what I got so far..
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3081 2014-03-20 22:32:18 <SomeoneWeird> zone117x, ugh
3082 2014-03-20 22:32:20 <SomeoneWeird> don't use redis
3083 2014-03-20 22:32:21 <SomeoneWeird> or mongo
3084 2014-03-20 22:32:29 <SomeoneWeird> use something which has ACID support
3085 2014-03-20 22:32:58 <zone117x> http://redis.io/topics/transactions
3086 2014-03-20 22:33:20 <SomeoneWeird> oh, that's new
3087 2014-03-20 22:33:26 <zone117x> :)
3088 2014-03-20 22:33:28 <SomeoneWeird> i stand corrected, if you are using them :)
3089 2014-03-20 22:35:12 <SomeoneWeird> btw, felixs mysql lib has built in retry which you should use
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3091 2014-03-20 22:36:16 <zone117x> https://github.com/zone117x/node-open-mining-portal/blob/master/libs/paymentProcessor.js#L365
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3094 2014-03-20 22:36:52 <zone117x> I built this pool with redis to scale easier than mysql
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3096 2014-03-20 22:37:32 <SomeoneWeird> yeah, but I still see a whole bunch of mysql code :)
3097 2014-03-20 22:37:57 <zone117x> you mean mpos?
3098 2014-03-20 22:38:12 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
3099 2014-03-20 22:38:20 <zone117x> nomp is better :)
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3101 2014-03-20 22:38:27 <SomeoneWeird> i'm just reading through code, haven't bothered to figure out how it all interacts yet :)
3102 2014-03-20 22:38:28 <zone117x> well once its done :[
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3109 2014-03-20 22:45:20 <zone117x> if a sendmany api call succeeds - if I do a getbalance immediately after will it show the updated balance?
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3136 2014-03-20 22:58:17 <thermoman> michagogo|cloud: ok, thanks
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3188 2014-03-20 23:35:46 <tiago> michagogo|cloud: are you around?
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3192 2014-03-20 23:36:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: I am
3193 2014-03-20 23:37:10 ninsei has joined
3194 2014-03-20 23:37:19 <tiago> michagogo|cloud: I submitted a pull request to the gitian.sigs repository, should I give gavinandresen or someone else my pubkey?
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3196 2014-03-20 23:39:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tiago: I don't exactly know what the standard procedure is
3197 2014-03-20 23:39:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think it's fine as-is (your key is available on keyservers, I see)
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3200 2014-03-20 23:40:02 <tiago> Yep, it is
3201 2014-03-20 23:40:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And your sigs do, in fact, appear to check out :-D
3202 2014-03-20 23:40:36 <tiago> I did a diff with your sigs and they seemed right
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3206 2014-03-20 23:42:15 <tiago> left the key as a comment on the pull req
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3218 2014-03-20 23:53:44 <dexX7> block 291565 time: 1395359173, block 291566 time 1395359083 ... which is 90 seconds earlier?
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3223 2014-03-20 23:55:48 <gmaxwell> what about it?
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3227 2014-03-20 23:57:08 <dexX7> block 291563 time: 1395359730 almost 11 mins after block ..66 -- i assumed the block time would be chronological
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